What the Babri incident did to us



The average Muslim is unlikely to vote any one party or candidate but is generally cagey about Hindutva-based politics.

Yet, after a Hindu fundamentalist movement led to the destruction in 1992 of the 16th-century Babri Masjid 20 years ago, many Muslims have frequently articulated a longing for a “truly secular” alternative to the Congress, accusing the party of often tilting to the Hindu right. That option has remained a hard-to-pin-down political mirage, analysts say.

I asked a few political commentators whose views I trust, about what they made of Muslim politics, two decades years on.

The enduring political legacy of the demolition has been that parties began courting Muslims as a political class, often in the name of protection. Besides, the Babri incident also created a political divide between the so-called secular parties and those with a Hindu fundamentalist ideology.

Neither option — Muslims seeking a “true secular” alternative and parties vying to fit the bill — has worked consistently.

Hilal Ahmed, a scholar at Delhi’s The Centre for the Study of Developing Societies who has worked on politics around monuments, such as the Babri Masjid, says if one really wanted to associate social categories with political categories, then caste has been a bigger factor.

Post-Babri, Muslims get more than a fair share of wooing because they are thought to impact polls by voting as a bloc. This is an over-blown myth, analysts say.

Only rarely have Muslims voted as a bloc to keep Hindutva parties out. According to Zoya Hasan of Delhi’s Jawaharlal Nehru University, when Muslims see an emerging threat from Hindu nationalists threatening their identity, such as the Babri incident, they may tend to vote tactically. When there is no such threat, they tend to focus on the larger issues, such as education.

Post-Mandal, Dalits, formerly a Congress constituency, had their own party. “In absence of a core Muslim party then, the dominant political perception was where do Muslims go? That is why sometimes Muslims seek an alternative,” said Ahmed.

AR Qureshi of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, who was on the forefront of the Babri struggle, said most parties had disappointed Muslims. “We may find that elusive alternative some day,” he said. That will add another facet to an already complex political game theory.

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  • http://twitter.com/pinky12j Suressh

    Yes, i also noticed it, but as always i thought she speaks through her hat rather than thru head.

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  • Khalil Sawant

    Anna or no Anna, Bandra-East Cabbies do not ply anyone short-distance.
    Nirmala SeethRaman does a better job than Manish Tiwari

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  • everybodyplays
  • sri rama sarma ydavally

    It is time to think and work out ways and means to derecognise political outfits that incite people on the lines of region, caste or religion. Those who talk of secularism without basic integrity or who take the cover of anti-communal posture as in the latest instance of fdi-in-retail should be exposed and their secret agenda should be arraigned fair and honest individuals and institutions.This is the process that helps churning the system and bring forth an honest cream which thinks of the nation and the people and their onward MARCH.

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  • venkatraman ganapathi

    Its time we accepted that Babri was just a building and not a Mosque as these ****** Muslims claim. As a matter of fact it was a a Ram Mandir. I am not a Hinduvta advocate but we must stop appeasing this territorial religion. The Congress Party has done well so far-by keeping the Muslims in India and illiterate and used their beliefs to secure votes. This has stopped working. Like Pakisthan which has defranchised Hindu votes we must also defranchise the Muslims and give them reservation of 25 seats.This is the only solution for rabbits

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    indian Reply:

    Babri masjid was mosque destructed by hindu terrorists get that staraight,even after exavation its proved..this is old used technique keep idol or stone wherever u want to build temple..automatically people will put some orange powder some cloths and u have the illegal temple ready..BJP targets the majority votebank yet they are not able to win elections ..this shows the incompetency of BJP and hindu terrorists supporting and vot ing it..india is a secular and will be secular

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    swami Reply:

    The old technique is to bury a dead body in a Hindu temple and slaughter cows in the place so the Hindus give up the place as having become impure.
    Also according to the court records it is babri building and not babri masjid.

    Hindus are not secular. They were always deeply spiritual and will always remain so because as swami vivekananda said religion is the business of Hindus.
    Hindus are not tolerant. They believe all religions are true and a person has the freedom to practice the religion he has been put into by God. It is the muslim and christian who are tolerant. They believe only their religion is true and all other religions are satanic and should be destroyed. They behave in a tolerant manner when they do not have the strength to impose their beliefs on you and wait for the time when they would become stronger than you and then impose their religion mercilessly on you.

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  • aman

    Why can t we have an agreement that Hindus offer their pooja on mon/tues and muslims on friday/other day. If we people can co-exist, I am sure god can as well and as some say, GOD is one so let them both be at ONE place.

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  • Ramesh Kumar

    BABAR WAS A INVADER ON INDIAN SOIL.THE MOSQUE WAS BUILT BY DEMOLISHING PART OF THE TEMPLE.
    I APPRECIATE HINDUSTAN TIMES BY CONTINUOUSLY REVIVING THESE TOPICS TO SUIT THEIR POLITICAL MASTERS -CONGRESS.
    BUT TO EXPEXT A WAYOUT ON THESE ISSUES UNDER CONGRESS LED GOVT IS IMPOSSIBLE.THEY ARE THE PEOPLE USED TO GET EDUCATION MONEY AS ENRON CHIEF USED TO SAY OR OIL MONEY WHICH LED TO OUSTER OF FOREIGN MINISTER OF CONGRESS MR.SINGH ETC.
    ONLY A STATEMAN WHO CAN THINK BEYOND THIS BLOG WRITER WILL HELP.HINDUSTAN TIMES SHOULD COME WITH SPECIAL ISSUES ON TEMPLES DESTROYED BY MUSLIMS INVADERS AND MOSQUE DESTROYED BY HINDUS AS A SPECIAL ISSUE WITH PERMISSION FROM THEIR MASTERS.

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    rao Reply:

    BABAR WAS A INVADER ON INDIAN SOIL.THE MOSQUE WAS BUILT BY DEMOLISHING PART OF THE TEMPLE

    bullshit and wrong.brhmns too were invaders.there is proof that any temple was demolished.

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  • Ramesh Kumar

    BABAR WAS A INVADER ON INDIAN SOIL.THE MOSQUE WAS BUILT BY DEMOLISHING PART OF THE TEMPLE.
    I APPRECIATE HINDUSTAN TIMES BY CONTINUOUSLY REVIVING THESE TOPICS TO SUIT THEIR POLITICAL MASTERS -CONGRESS.
    BUT TO EXPEXT A WAYOUT ON THESE ISSUES UNDER CONGRESS LED GOVT IS IMPOSSIBLE.THEY ARE THE PEOPLE USED TO GET EDUCATION MONEY AS ENRON CHIEF USED TO SAY OR OIL MONEY WHICH LED TO OUSTER OF FOREIGN MINISTER OF CONGRESS MR.SINGH ETC.
    ONLY A STATEMAN WHO CAN THINK BEYOND THIS BLOG WRITER WILL HELP.HINDUSTAN TIMES SHOULD COME WITH SPECIAL ISSUES ON TEMPLES DESTROYED BY MUSLIMS INVADERS AND MOSQUE DESTROYED BY HINDUS AS A SPECIAL ISSUE WITH PERMISSION FROM THEIR MASTERS.

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  • Pradhyumna Yadav

    There is no doubt that Congress governments in many states collude with the RSS. Case in point, Andhra Pradesh, where Chief Minister and some of his cabinet colleagues are RSS followers. They have expanded the bhagmati temple at Charminar the temple never existed at the site before 1974. Muslims should create their own parties without relying on the Congress.

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  • Hindustani

    Muslims are curse to Humanity. No religion in the world behaves the way Muslims behave. They are fanatics.

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    sai Reply:

    give some example.

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    momn doter Reply:

    example huh! – Islam came to India. Forced Indians to take Islam. Instead of living peacefully like other religions, asked Islam followers to fight for new states – result – Pakistan and Bangladesh cut off. Our own people under influence of a fanatic religion are in much worse state then they were here.
    Today India is reduced to 3/4 of its original, and Islam is now fighting for Kashmir independence and curses hinduism for plight of minorities, when only Islam has problem with acceptance, while other religions living peacefully with us and us with them.

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    akb Reply:

    brhmns came 3000 years before muslims.they enslaved indans call them hindu.victims of brhmnsm coverted to islam.
    in practice hinuism is worst type aparteism.for 3000 years doors of education remained close to non brhmns.justice was also not equal.

    momn doter Reply:

    Interesting choice of words. We enslaved, and victims then converted to Islam.

  • kumar

    Dhaka | Dec 9 2012 | HE BD Bureau :: A Hindu young man was beaten to death by a Islamic mob near the district courts in the Old Dhaka amid nationwide Bandh (blockade) today clashes that halted the Dhaka-Aricha Highway. The Bandh was called by the opposition group of Bangladesh, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (Nationality means here the Islamic Nationality of BD) and the Jammat-e-Islami Party of Bangladesh. It has been alleged that members of the students union of both parties ‘Jatiyatabadi Chatra (Students) League’ and ‘Islami Chhatra Shibir’ were behind the brutal killing of this Hindu Youth named Biswajit Kumar Das (24 yrs) with lethal weapons like Iron rods and sharpened chopper.

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    Truhseeker Reply:

    ঢাকার লক্ষ্মীবাজারে ছাত্রলীগ ক্যাডারদের ছুরিকাঘাতে বিশ্বজিৎ দাস নিহত হয়েছেন।

    ছাত্রলীগ ক্যাডাররা ধাওয়া করলে বিশ্বজিৎ স্থানীয় একটি কিনিকে
    গিয়ে আশ্রয় নেন। সেখানে ঢুকে
    ছাত্রলীগ ক্যাডাররা তাকে কুপিয়ে টেনেহিঁচড়ে দোতলা থেকে রাস্তায় নামিয়ে আনে।

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    engrich Reply:

    he was killed by mistake.by supporter of haseena wajid.haseena supports hindus in bangladesh.he was not killed because he was hindu.

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    momn doter Reply:

    All politicians are in favor of other religions. Fact still stands.

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  • kumar

    No Muslim was killed during destruction of mosque but Indian Muslims have engaged in numerous terror attacks and killed many civilians in revenge. Contrast that with reports coming out of Muslim world where Hindu temples, Buddhist statutues, Christians praying inside churches are destroyed and killed but still no Hindu or Christian terrorists in Pakistan who massacre civilians in bomb blasts in buses or markets- only Muslim terrorists in Pakistan. How do you explain that?

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    indian Reply:

    kumar goons of rss and vhp burnt alive 16 poor innocent muslims on 6th december.ayodhya is not hindu place.historically it was budhhdist place later occupied by shaivites after budhdhist were annihilated and chased out of plane areas.their temples were converted into hindu temples.for short period place was occupied by jainese.its life is 2200 years.while rama was born in treta yug 4000 years ago.so it wrong bullshit and diabolic to say that rama was born here.rama cult was introduced in 16th century by ramanand misra and later by tulsidaas.
    rss vhp used rama to divide backwards of hindi speaking belt.zoinist has future plan to ignite war between shaivaites and vaishnavites(rama was made 8th avtar of vishnu.)
    the whole gme was based on fraud and lies.took india 10 years back.brhmnst and zoinists use their idol to make money and bully others.
    ram lila was started bynawab wajid ali shah of lucknow.
    it is during muslim period that ayodhya became vibrant municipality from sleeping village.

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    momn doter Reply:

    I don’t know who tells you these things – ram lila started by nawab wajid ali shah and all. Let me put this delicately – Ayodhya, gokul, mathura, katra, chaar dhaam, hrisikesh aur haridwar hamara hai.

    Now talking some sense – These places are of faith importance to us hindus but we couldn’t do anything when under islamic rule. Babri was made after demolishing Indian temple.
    Islam ruled entire country. Couldn’t they find other place to build mosques.

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    engrich Reply:

    hindu places of worship flourished under muslim rule.ayodya is not mentioned anywhere in hindu scripture.it was budhhdist place captured by brhmns,buhdhdist temples were forcibly converted into hindu temples.

    ram lila was started by nawab wajid ali shah.under muslim rule ayodhya became vibrant city from sleeping village.

    hindu built nothing.they captured budhdist holy places.now they are fabricating the bullshit to capture muslim holy places.

    Sudhir Yadav Reply:

    Any historical fact for ayodhya being budhist and other etc you mentioned.

    engrich Reply:

    CHINESE TRAVELLRS DESCRIBED this city.nowhere ayodhya is mentioned in hindu holy scripture.u will find many jain temples there as well.hidu use their idols to make money and bully others.

    Sam Reply:

    In the Ayodhya Kaanda of Valmiki Ramayana, a Buddhist was compared to a thief and the Tathagatas to atheists (Naastiks). It said:

    यथा हि चोर स्स तथा हि बुद्ध-
    स्तथागतं नास्तिकमत्र विद्धि।

    As a thief, so is Buddha. Know that Tathagatas are atheists. [Sarga 109; shloka 34]

    The Yajnavalkya Smriti says that the very sight of a monk with red robes and shaven head (referring to Buddhists), even in a dream, is a bad sign. [Yajnavalkya SmritiI/272-273]

    The Agni Purana[16/1-3] and Vishnu Purana[18/13-18] refer to Buddha as an embodiment of Grand Deception (māyamohasvarup) and that he deluded the people from the Vedic Religion. His path is a sure ticket to hell.

    The great philosopher of Hinduism, Shankaracharya, said that the Buddha was suffering from what we know as schizophrenia. Shankaracharya said that

    “he (Buddha) was a man given to make incoherent assertions or else that hatred of all beingsinduced him to propound absurd doctrines by accepting which they would become thoroughly confused.–So that–and this the Sûtra means to indicate–Buddha’s doctrine has to be entirely disregarded by all those who have a regard for their own happiness.”

    [Shankar Bhashya on Brahmasutra 2/2/32]

    Sam Reply:

    “The king (Sudhanva) commanded his servants “kill all Buddhists from Himalaya to Rameshvaram, even children and elderly. Whosoever will not kill them, will be killed at my hands.” [93]

    At the instigation of Kumarila Bhatta, the king killed the Buddhists, the opponents (of the Hindu religion) just like a Yogi destroys the disturbances. [95]

    [Madhava-Vidyaranya, Sankara Digvijaya Sarg 1; shlokas 93-95] “

    momn doter Reply:

    Dude now you are irritating me. I know how islamic world works. You come across these things in blogs made by other muslims, and from other muslim extremists. After all there is always a book from which you can show your point.

    Wajid ali shah was the first muslim to start ramlila in his dynasty. Saying Ayodhya became vibrant under muslim rule is a slap on my face. ‘Ayodhya not mentioned in scriptures’ is the irritating part. Islam never had respect for other religions, nor will it ever.

  • balaji

    previously…. with the help of wapons muslims who were less than 1 percent in population converted all temples into mosques and so babri was one of it…..

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  • Raghavendra

    Mr Zia haq show me one election when MUSLIMS have voted with out keeping BJP in mind? people of your community have become pawns in the game played by parties like CONGRESS, LEFT, SP .

    you feel MUSLIMS really vote for issues as development and education i feel all they care about is keeping COMMUNAL BJP out at all cost.

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  • Faulitics

    “According to Zoya Hasan of Delhi’s Jawaharlal Nehru University, when Muslims see an emerging threat from Hindu nationalists threatening their identity,”

    Why would indian Muslims of Indian ethnic stock tie their identity to a dilapidated building built by a self confessed genocidal fanatic like Babur who came from Uzbekistan and occupied the land of their Indian ancestors ? If this is true, what sort of idiotic ideology promotes this kind of cult like mindset?

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  • momn doter

    Let me tell you why I hate Islam. Fact – “Muslim majority countries
    don’t develop (unless there is oil) and don’t respect minorities”. So
    I am in favor of Islam free India – A country where every religion but
    Islam is welcome. I’m not against holy Qur’an or current Muslims. I
    would like new borns to be converted to any other religion, in case you
    are not a fan of Hinduism.

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  • ENGRICH

    Two
    decades is almost a third of the journey that independent India has
    covered since 1947. It’s been a long journey, chequered with events that
    challenged, threatened and sometimes even sustained – in their own
    convoluted way – the idea of the Indian state. The epoch begins with
    what happened in small-town Ayodhya on Dec 6, 1992 when a medieval
    mosque, labelled as a monument of Mughal pride and persecution, was
    pulled down by a frenzied mob of right-wing Hindu ‘activists’. One need
    not go into the well-documented details of what happened that day.

    The
    only aspect I want you to consider here for the sake of the argument I
    will be making later is that the demolition of Babri Masjid, organised
    by the BJP government in UP and tacitly supported by the Congress
    government at the Centre, was still considered an assault on the Indian
    state. It was constitutionally a ‘crime’ and therefore liable to
    prosecution, which of course did happen. That nobody has been punished
    yet for the demolition and its protagonists today grace the Parliament
    and dream of
    becoming the Prime Minister of the country is a different story.

    Two
    decades later, there is a lot of talk about the nation moving on.
    Presumably towards less hatred and more ‘development’, thanks to another
    epochal event that happened a year before Ayodhya 1992 – the opening of
    the Indian market. But has the state really moved on? If so, then has
    the state moved forward on a trajectory of democracy, justice and
    equality, or has it actually regressed into a delusional and scarier
    behemoth? Let’s consider another example on the ‘decadent’ (couldn’t
    resist the pun)
    timeline as the title of this piece suggests.

    Let’s
    move a decade forward to an event that is again simply called Gujarat
    2002, undeniably the most unfortunate event since Ayodhya 1992. How do
    we look at Gujarat 2002 vis-a-vis the Indian state? Well, we can’t,
    because Gujarat 2002 was all about the state. It was a state-sponsored
    and organised pogrom against its minorities, the main protagonist of
    which has grown more powerful since the violence and represents the
    collective dream of Hindu middle-class as well as its corporates of
    becoming India’s next Prime
    Minister.

    So
    what changed? For the sake of argument, we can say with some comfort
    that the Babri protagonists were largely punished by India’s syncretism.
    Of course, the BJP gained from Ayodhya 1992, forming a short-lived
    government in 1996 and then coming back to power in 1998. Yet, the
    protagonists of the demolition – Kalyan Singh, Vinay Katiyar, Uma
    Bharti, Murli Manohar Joshi and even L K Advani – could never come out
    of its shadow. In contast, Narendra Modi’s only claim to fame, if you
    will, is Gujarat 2002. Modi without the pogrom has no resume to flaunt
    or
    claim his legitimacy as the tallest leader in the same BJP.

    Allow
    me to elaborate. What changed in a decade since 1992 – in the same BJP -
    was that while Advani, the supreme architect of Hindutva in India,
    could not become an accepted prime ministerial candidate because of
    Ayodhya 1992 and the violence that followed, Modi, on the other hand,
    has not only been largely excused from any serious prosecution by the
    law of the land for his role in Gujarat 2002, he is even the BJP’s only
    consensus candidate for the prime minister’s post.

    In
    other words, while we may bask in the growing secularisation of the
    state – marked by a larger rule of law as well as open-market capitalism
    – the fact remains that the Indian state continues to be schizophrenic
    about its self-image. If Ayodhya 1992 was about a bunch of non-state
    loonies pulling down a mosque, Gujarat 2002 was marked by the same state
    being an active participant in a pogrom against its largest minority.
    While Ayodhya 1992 sought to correct a perceived historical wrong by
    erasing its material testimony, Gujarat 2002 did not even care to show
    any pretension other than a crude and
    violent majoritarianism.

    Mumbai
    2012, to move on and conclude, further complicates the pattern of the
    Indian state’s failure to define itself in a more rational, democratic
    and more importantly, secular manner. By choosing to honour a rabid
    hate-monger who mocked at all the ideals a liberal nation is supposed to
    stand for, the state displayed its pathological schizophrenia like
    never before. The state funeral of Bal Thackeray, in other words,
    expunged him of his role in the killing of hundreds of Muslims in Mumbai
    post-Ayodhya 1992, which is just one among his and his
    party’s many assaults on the state. Moreover, as the year 2012 closes,
    the killer of Gujarat 2002 is set to return as the Chief Minister of the
    state for a record fourth term.

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  • X

    PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN KORAN IS IT WRITTEN “LOVE” “PEACE ” ..FIRST SHOW ME ..ISLAM SPREADS HATRED

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  • X

    PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN KORAN IS IT WRITTEN “LOVE” “PEACE ” ..FIRST SHOW ME ..ISLAM SPREADS HATRED

    [Reply]

  • X

    PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN KORAN IS IT WRITTEN “LOVE” “PEACE ” ..FIRST SHOW ME ..ISLAM SPREADS HATRED

    [Reply]

  • X

    islam is crazy ..fact 1) it has words like kafirs etc 2) muslim lie when they tell jihad is all about peaced etc ..now where will you dinf word like love etc..muslims only like to kill anf they cry when some body ***** them in written !!

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  • X

    hey writter u *** BABUR WAS NOT EVEN INDIAN LOL

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  • X

    hey writter u *** BABUR WAS NOT EVEN INDIAN LOL

    [Reply]

  • X

    hey writter u *** BABUR WAS NOT EVEN INDIAN LOL

    [Reply]

  • Abhi

    “Muslims see an emerging threat from Hindu nationalists”
    When will Zia talk about Hindus seeing an emerging threat from Muslim nationalists, of whom there is no dearth in India?

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  • Abhi

    “What the Babri incident did to us”.
    It is dismaying that “us” for Zia means “us muslims”. One would hope that for a ’secular” blogger, “us” would mean, “us Indians”. If indeed, Zia “belongs” more to muslims than to India, he should perhaps seek for an asylum in Pakistan where he would feel more “at home” with all the “us muslims”.

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  • momn doter

    To those muslim idiots cursing other religion, shut up and stop your madrsa teachings.

    I am not a fan of history. Every religion tried to impose its ideas and
    culture on other, and before 1950 in absence of a government of people, it was just about strong ruling poor.
    After 1950 or say world war-II, control of power shifted from autocracy to democracy. This is the period when Christian, Buddhist majority states like germany and china developed whilst India a Hindu state struggled to keep its muslim population calm.
    Also there is no country in world where muslims live in peace with other religion, all they ask for is tolerance from majority, and in return they only contribute in sperms, they always have highest birth rate than that country’s other religions.

    This is the period when RSS, VHP and shiv sena grew. So I dont know – what the Babri incident did to “us”, but what Babri incident did to us Indians is convey a strong message to muslim community to calm down, an start living peacefully like other minority religions. India is the most diverse state that you can find and if you can’t live in harmony in here, then there is definitely something wrong with Islam.

    Also ain’t it surprising that only after this period we started growing economically and socially. And to those blaming Modi should not forget Godra train fire. Us hindus are not known for killing our own kind (atleast after mughal period) – any guesses which religion kills its own people.

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