Islamic finance: Neo-Con madness again



Poor Subramanian Swamy. The prospects of Islamic finance and banking options in India make him nervous as a rain-drenched cat.

He thinks Arab funds will flow like water, endangering India’s financial sovereignty. With Swamy and friends, such paranoid stuff and canards are bread and butter. Without these, they cease to exist. Muslim-bashing is the summon bonum of their existence; Islam a bogey they raise to stay alive. Without this all-important vocation, they are dead and gone.

The JP Morgan Chases, Dow Joneses, Citibanks, Morgan Stanleys and the Stancharts out there however know the exponentially growing Shariah-complaint financial market well and have dabbled in it. Not because of religious requirement. They are in it for the profit. The State Bank of India too offers Shariah compliant products in many Gulf countries. There’s money to be made after all.

But this isn’t about Islam or finance really. This is rather about defending principled Indian liberalism from its sworn enemies.

A vitriolic propagandist, Swamy is one of those right-wing cynics who will have no qualms trampling upon religious liberty.

This is about stopping the misinformation they spread, while reinforcing our own intellectual credentials in battling the neo-CONs — the pun is not intended but incidental.

This is going to be the challenge we will face for a long, long time. Cultural conservatism cannot be allowed to be passed around in the name of political conservatism by near-fraudulent means.

Back to Islamic finance. With at least $500 billion in assets globally managed in accordance with Shariah, or Islamic law, and the sector growing at over 10% a year, according to Standard & Poor’s, Islamic finance isn’t about Islam as much about wealth management for potential investors.

In principle, Islamic finance seeks equitable wealth by banning exploitative financial practices. In practice, it’s about side-stepping paying of interests, gambling on derivatives and excessive risk-taking. Or investing in casinos, pornography and weapons of mass destruction, pornography or pork.

The fundamental requirement of any investment under Islamic finance is to share both reward and risk. So, products are designed in such a way that both profits and losses are equally shared among lenders and borrowers. There cannot be a zero-sum game: one’s profits cannot come from other losses.

Financial institutions love Islamic finance not because of its moral compass but because of something far more basic: its market potential.

HSBC and Citigroup established their global Islamic finance divisions in the 1990s, as did Ernst & Young. Unlike Swamy, they know money isn’t Muslim or Jewish.

Even central banks can’t resist the temptation. London could soon be the hub of Islamic finance in the west. The Japanese and British govts — in an attempt to attract Muslim investors — have announced plans to issue sovereign bonds that conform to Islamic law.

Ford Motor sold its $848-million Aston Martin to Investment Dar, a Kuwait-based Islamic bank, under a Shariah-compliant sale. Why? Because it got a lucrative client. A Shariah-compliant private equity firm based in Bahrain owns Caribou Coffee, America’s second-largest coffee chain, just as Saudi British Bank is part-owned by HSBC and Standard Chartered.

France can’t stand the veil but has changed its tax and legal codes to attract Islamic investors. All leading banks in London have so-called Islamic windows.

Rules have been amended in non-Muslim financial centres, such as London, Singapore and Hong Kong, to facilitate Islamic finance.

A home-purchase plan for the mainstream UK market approved by the UK’s Financial Services Authority has been designed around Islamic finance principles and shows that Islamic finance can inspire sustainable financial products.

The principles of this home purchase plan are the same as those governing Islamic housing schemes in the UK: Risk-sharing, not charging high fees; allowing for part rent, part purchase, sharing equity upside and sharing downside property risks.

Yemen’s Al-Amal bank won accolades of the Consultative Group to Assist the Poor (CGAP), an arm of the World Bank, in 2010 for its innovative Islamic microfinance initiative, a lease-to-purchase arrangement in which borrowers work as salaried employees of the bank they borrow from, while also working on their own plans for which they took the loans.

Islamic financial services need to be seen as an investment product in a broader portfolio bouquet.

The idea is not to foist Islamic finance on the rest of the world economy but to allow a healthy competition between the two. Being a niche product, it cannot, definitionally, supplant conventional banking.

In the context of greedy practices of the sort that led to the 2008 credit crisis, it however merits a closer look.

But more than anything else, it should be there on the table, laid out among many other instruments as an option for Muslims to enhance wealth and the quality of their lives within their religious beliefs.

Global banks are happily offering Islamic finance products and will do so as long as there is a market and demand. Doubting Thomases, such as Swamy, can continue, in the meanwhile, to spread some more scare. That’s how they earn their profits: from hate-mongering.

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  • Bschandrasgr

    Before Advaniji starts his Yatra, he should ask the CM Modiji to institute a strong Lokayukta in Gujarat who could probe and take action against corrupt politicians and officials. Advaniji should also advise and see that the recommendation of recent Lokayukta report in Karnataka should be implemented immediately and Lokayukta should be given more powers. Modiji as a BJP CM, is opposing the appointment of Lokpal; here Adaniji is preparing for Rathayatra against corruption. It is a contrast and farce and has no moral strength; but looks like a political gimmick.. Can the people be fooled by this? We expect some more honest efforts by the veteran aged Advaniji. /bsc

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  • Indian

    Islamic finance is offered in islamic states by jpm citi etc where there is close sharia law, and not in a democratic secular coultry

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    dinesh Reply:

    My dear it is offered in most of the European countries, far east and Americas

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    Sha Reply:

    There is nothing wrong wt Islamic finance. In fact it is good for the common man stupid. It prevents exploitation by banks.
    But here’s the catch. All these so called Islamic finance people practice interest in a veiled form. So there is nothing Islamic about Islamic finance except the name. So chill hatemongers.

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    Asad Reply:

    For your kind information, London is soon to be the one of the biggest hubs of Islamic banking.HSBC is already offering Amanah banking there. So your idea is wrong.Its not about closed or secular. It’s about the concept and the market available. India is a huge market for these financial products and these products are in no way limited to Muslims.

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    gajanan Reply:

    An alternative to oil is coming in the next five-7 yrs. Germans are on the verge of a breakthrough in solar cells for 24 hrs in a chip. When all said solar cells will occupy a football ground , Germans did the reverse. They have made huge power savings with only roof top area solar panels. You can see in many countries solar panels on roof tops generating power to the grid and not dependant on oil or coal. The grid power is still being used, but there is a huge saving. Germans were the first to do this. Germany has very less sunshine , but they generate maximum power thru solar energy.

    In US pvt sector is also in the race. Unfortunately the Department of Energy in USA is not funding because of vested interests of senators in oil companies. The electric car was shut down by this oil lobby is making a come back. This electric car concept can be transferred to all vehicles even airtravel. Fuel cells drove space craft and not oil. This is also being pursued very vigorously. it will surely come. The battery as a fuel is also coming. MIT has done commerical work in this area. If the department of energy in USA enters in a big way for alternatives to oil, then oil price will plummet to a record low, because , then the competition will push the alternatives to come sooner. Man is always innovative . The truimph of spirit and science will plummet oil prices to a new low. Once oil price plummets very low , what is the use of this banking with scarce funds

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  • Anonymous

    Poor Zia, he had 1000 plus bloggers at one time!

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    Ravi Reply:

    Hindu Neo-Cons & Indian Liberalism

    I would 100% agree that the overarching issue almost always is about defending principled Indian liberalism from its sworn enemies – the Hindu Neo-Cons.

    Poor Gopi……. There was a time when everyone held him in high regard. Now lots of people are beigining to revise their judgements. He knows – almost down to an individual – how each of the Keralite Muslims vote, but has absolutely no idea how the Karnataka LUNGAYATS do. He refuses to acknowledge that they are a vote bank deftly nurtured by the BJP. As a result he has become a willing recruit in the internet brigade of those who deliberately and under instructions spread misinformation. For his labour of hate he receives wah wah wah from the clapper loading coterie of Hindu Neo-Cons.

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    vijay ! Reply:

    @ Ravi

    So how is life in Tora Bora?

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  • dinesh

    You are right. Swamy kind of people’s bread and butter is bashing of Muslims and Minorities.They are dividing India in all the lines.. Islamic finance is now available in most of the European countreis, far East ,Americas etc, We Indians can definitely take benifit of this huge Islamic finance

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  • Bob

    Islamic banking in India is unconstitutional. It is quite possible that in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, where the laws only permit Islamic Banking, western banls like Morgan, JPM, or CITI would have banked according to Sharia. In India, there is a secular democracy. It need to vitiate its economic and social systems with the backwardness of the nomads of Arabian regions. The blogger is a dis-ingenious communalist trying to raise issues that are irrelevant to Indian society. I think those Muslims of India who want a Sharia should emigrate to Saudi Arabia. They should not live in India and feel uncomfortable in a secular fabric. They may be better off in such a system.

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  • anil

    [Back to Islamic finance. With at least $500 billion in assets globally
    managed in accordance with Shariah, or Islamic law, and the sector
    growing at over 10% a year, according to Standard & Poor’s, Islamic
    finance isn’t about Islam as much about wealth management for potential
    investors.]

    If it is not about Islam why then call it Islamic finance? If you have something positive to offer to financial sector why not give your suggestion without giving it an Islamic tinge, if you are so liberal/democratic and the heart is bleeding for the general public?

    Is it too difficult to hide the agenda?

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    Asad Reply:

    Islamic finance is also known as Shariah compliant finance. It’s principles are based on the Islamic Shariah Law which promotes equity and hence the name.
    What agenda are you talking about? I suggest you open your eyes and see how its concepts of leasing (ijara) and partnerships in risk bearing has proved successful in the banking industry. It’s about getting your ethics right.

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    Tasneem Reply:

    Islam is a complete way of life. The religion Islam does not preach only about worshiping..going to mosque…fasting…etc. Rules and regulations for every situation of ones life are mentioned in the Quran as well as in the teachings of prophet Muhammad(pbuh).and so the concept of banking too is mentioned in the Quran, as it is different from the concept which is widely followed, it came to be known as Islamic finance by non-Islamic parties. If you have problem with the name, then for your kind information it is also known as “interest-free banking”. Be broad-minded, look the concept, its really worth

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    Abu Reply:

    It is also called ethical banking as Islamic banks will not invest in non-ehtical businesses such as liquor factories, lottery industries, casinos etc. It is purely based on human welfare rather selfishness.

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    Tasneem Reply:

    Islam is a complete way of life. The religion Islam does not preach only about worshiping..going to mosque…fasting…etc. Rules and regulations for every situation of ones life are mentioned in the Quran as well as in the teachings of prophet Muhammad(pbuh).and so the concept of banking too is mentioned in the Quran, as it is different from the concept which is widely followed, it came to be known as Islamic finance by non-Islamic parties. If you have problem with the name, then for your kind information it is also known as “interest-free banking”. Be broad-minded, look the concept, its really worth

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  • Zakhir

    Where is the place for islamic finance in a democracy? Except Islamist open terrorism there is no place for the world ‘islam’ in a “Socialist, Democratic and Republic of India’. If this clueless writer, zia, wants to defend in setting up an Islamic Finance, why he does go with his millions of friends a place where he would be given enough room.

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  • Zakhir

    Once the oil wells dry up and the civilized world moves over completely to non convectional energy sources, the gulf states and their so called oxymoron, Islamic banking, will be only found in history books.. I think this is going to happen not in very distant future..

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  • Ayesha

    Shariah is about creating parallel law; a state within a state. It is about dragging the world into primitive practices of barbaric Arabia. Next thing will be zislamic law when they will be chopping heads and hands of criminals!

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  • Sinchan Mitra

    I have often disagreed with Zia – but he is totally right on this one – Swamy is among the biggest hater that I have seen on national media- his hatred and contempt for Muslims and Islam is well know. (He makes L.K Advani or any other BJP leader look like a moderate/secular person!). He sees red whenever the word Islam is mentioned. So even if we are discussing Islamic music, Swamy will go apoplectic about how Arab music videos will foment Islamic revolution in India and so on! I hate religious fanatics, propagandists and haters (whether Hindu or Muslim), even if they have degrees from Harvard.

    Islamic finance is increasingly popular in many (if not most) countries around the world – including many countries where majority are Christians or Buddhists. These kind of controversies arise only in India – are we as tolerant as we like to claim?

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    Truth Reply:

    Everybody in the world sees red (other than may be islamic countries) when word Islam is mentioned and for a reason. Because of which US could stop blinded violence (to some extent) of Islam against other religions. Otherwise Islam has given a free hand to Muslims to kill kaafirs. All terrorism in the world is sponsored by the saudi wahabi sect (Islamic), all terrorism is done by Islamic fundamentalists. Even the so-called moderate Islamist see evil design (or Kaafirs) in each Jews, christians and Hindus. You are an idiot and Swamy is definitely intelligent and understand all this. What he said is definitely right. Islamic banking will start flow of money between muslims around the world without any control (may be you need to learn more about Islamic banking) which definitely has its red signals as this money can be used by terrorists. Instead of Islamic banking national banks should start banking with zero interests to benefit if it is beneficial but why give the name of Islamic banking and make it muslim brotherhood thing.

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    MN Kaul Reply:

    there is nothing like islamic Music. You will have Fathwa against you even for saying Islamic Music.
    First it started with separate electorate, separate language followed by partition. Do you want second partition. Reservations for Muslims followed by Shariah banking is sure recepie for another partition and disaster. The fact is Islam has never believed nor will ever believe in secularism.

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    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Kaul
    You would have been right had you said that there is nothing like Islamic Fundamentalist Music.

    However, as you and every one knows there is a lot of Normal Islamic Music.

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    Rameen Reply:

    you are absolutely right about Islamic banking being popular as Vatican itself urged to look into Islamic banking to overcome financial crisis.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOsOLE8uiNOg&refer=italy

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    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Mitra, well said and I agree with you.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Swamy’s daughter is happily married to a Muslim. He has not disowned her, rather they live with him on and off.
    His hatred is not to any group; but to the violent Islamists and the conditions that promote violent extremism – liek the congress’ sucking Muslims always

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    Ravi Reply:

    congress’ sucking Muslims always is wrong!!

    Where as always sucking Hindus Phaluuda is OK.

    His views on the Ram Saetu, Article 370, etc. and the fact that he took a secular Janta party and converted it into a Hindu Fundo Saffron party is neither here nor there.

    Just look how shril his views on Islam are.

    When it comes to sucking, lets face it he has a mouth and you know sucking is a neo-natal reflux.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Swamy’s daughter is happily married to a Muslim. He has not disowned her, rather they live with him on and off.
    His hatred is not to any group; but to the violent Islamists and the conditions that promote violent extremism – liek the congress’ sucking Muslims always

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  • http://twitter.com/GuunjanJha गुंजन ।। Gunjan Jha

    Likes of Swamy, including me, are trying to defend principled Indian liberalism. We have all seen what “principled liberalism” means in a country where muslims are in a majority. Turkey might be an exception out of 50+ such nations, but we are not prepared to take such a risk. Being very honest here. You should be honest too.

    Next comes Islamic finance jurisprudence of a market estimated at $300-$500 billion. Let me tell you that the cash flows are almost the same, just a little higher, as in “normal” market economic jurisprudence. It is structured differently to cater to the sentiments of muslims worldwide. It is actually just a little more costly because a little higher risk is associated to the cash flows.

    The current economic jurisprudence is much simpler and cheaper than Islamic jurisprudence simply because it has further evolved over one more thousand years, which is an underestimate because last 50 years has been like last 950 years alone. Islamic finance is that far behind, but who can make muslims understand, so industry happily makes a little bit more money.

    The providers in Islamic finance market are obviously banks of developed world, but subscribers are all religiously devout muslims, who unfortunately do have a biased agenda. In fact that is why they want Islamic finance!

    Finally, when you do agree that there exists principled Indian liberalism, which includes existing financial system that is cheaper and better, and when we all realize that money has no religion as such then why do we need Islamic finance?

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    Ravi Reply:

    Gunjan
    Money may not have a reigion, but can the same also be said about the SYSTEM that governs it?

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    Guest Reply:

    That’s definitely tru in Islamist countries whom you unabashedly admire. “liberal Hindu”? Seriously? What’s liberal about Saudi Arabia or the Arab cult for that matter? Ravi…..

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    Ravi Reply:

    Its beauty entirely rests on the fact that you do not understand it, but you possess
    this strong urge to abuse it.

    That makes you an unreformed Islamophobe.

    Guest Reply:

    Wherever this Arab cult rules, there is extreme fanaticism and retrograde human condition. This is a pattern all across the globe with very few exceptions. Is that fact too inconvenient to “liberal Hindu” Ravi? What does this intentional inability to see things make you? A pseudo “liberal Hindu” ? :-) . By the way, is “islamophobe” a new tag for realists? Haha

    Ravi Reply:

    Not at all. Islamophobe is a tag for Islamophobes just like you.

    Ravi Reply:

    Not at all. Islamophobe is a tag for Islamophobes just like you.

  • Sardar Vallhab Bahi Patel FAN

    Writer is typical Madrassa mulla. if he is not comfortable than migrate to Sharia compliant nation.
    All of his articles are against main stream, away from secularism and pro mulla world of Madrassa.

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    Logic Guru Reply:

    What are you —a HALF PANT.

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  • Indian

    wah wah..
    islam is the religion of peace.. they were original financial wizards of the world..
    without islam world wouldn’t be the same..
    anything else mr.zia haq from pakistan?

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  • ag

    If India were truly paranoid about Muslims then this artcle wouldn’t have appeared on HT. As for the content, the article is remarkably deficient in logic or in details. The only sentence that attempts to explain Islamic finance is: “The fundamental requirement of any investment under Islamic finance is to share both reward and risk.” This is a flimsy statement, as ALL financing has this characteristic.

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    KMO Reply:

    If all financing share reward and risk why banks do not write off interest where the borrower shows a loss. People/Banks lending for interest alsways want the reward only. They do not want to share the risk of the borrower and they want profit only.

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  • gajanan

    Once Germany comes out with solar energy breakthrough in a chip for 24 hrs power and now with the pvt sector In USA leapfrogging into solar and battery storage all money from Middle East will hit all time low. Then there is electric car which was blocked by the fossil fuel lobby for long is soon coming out with reduced cost ( Tesla is the first one).. The electric car and this concept for heavy vehicles and airplanes will hit middle east income to an all time low. Oil dependance will become very low. This has dawned too late even in the West. It is late , but it will surely come. Not to worry. The flow of finance from middle east will hit a all time low in the next 5 to 6 yrs. This augurs well for world peace also. .

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    Anonymous Reply:

    I am not nearly as optimistic. The problem of battery storage is solvable, but it will take at least a decade… long enough for the west to transfer over an additional $10 trillion for oil.

    Oil has allowed a culture to obtain far more power and influence than it would otherwise. But assuming the battery issue is solved, I look forward to a world where cultures live and prosper solely on their merit rather than from free money (or oil).

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    gajanan Reply:

    The US Department of Energy has to get in . The oil lobby had blocked coal bed methane ( natural gas) for decades. After great tussle with the oil lobby , this industry has taken shape. This also has problems with the environment. The Department of Energy in US has to get in the solar energy race, batteries as well as the electric car, which was pushed off by the oil lobby some years back.. The batteries area also very little funding is there. Yes they can, but is there a will to do. USA has to get into new energy sources, then all the excess money you have written about will plummet and as you have written there will be meritorous living.

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  • Ahmed

    Not to mention that Islamic Finance is not restricted to Muslims. You don’t even have to call it “Islamic”. And anyone, muslim or non-muslim can take part in it. BSE launched a TASIS shariah compliant index, where not only muslims but non-muslims invest.

    Loonies like Swamy and Co. are the epitome of how illeberalism is not the sole perogative of one religion or race. We have harvard education people like Swamy doing the same

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  • Sumit Bose

    A very close friend of mine is holding a very important position in a the 2nd largest bank in Bangladesh, and he (though being born in a Muslim family) scoffs at Islamic banking as a veil that meant only to deceive. The “share” amount handed out to each depositor is almost identical to the interest offered by the other (non-islamic) banks in each country. He explained , and that clarified for me once and for all the hoax named “Islamic Banking”.
    Say Rs 100 is deposited and after a year the depositor is told:
    Rs 15 from your deposit was put into A’s cycle repair business, but he has got a job in Japan and has left, so that has earned nothing.
    Rs 20 was put into a new saree factory and that has returned no profit for this year, but looks promising for the next year.
    Rs 15 was put in the car purchased by a Mr A, and that has repayment of Rs 3/-, and so on.
    Such a bank would see a immediate wholesale run on its balances.
    Because conservative muslims need to assuage their fear of hell-fires that the terms ‘Islamic’ and ‘halal’ are bandied about in large dollops in every muslim country. and would you believe, in Bangladesh I had the amusement of seeing “halal” soaps and “halal” compass boxes!
    This Muslim cannot meet any points raised by Dr Swamy, hence this diatribe. Mr Swamy has more “economics” in his little finger than this Muslim could garner in all his being..
    Makes me wonder why a rather very sensible demand of Dr Ambedkar was shouted out; he wanted a complete transfer of populations to go hand with the transfer of assets and land. we in India, would be free of devious minds as this moslem convert.

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    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    Once again I think you seem to fail to make a point. Anecdote is fine, but what is the point.

    If “Share” is identical, mathematically, to “Interest” then so what. What is is underlying issue.

    One could say that Two चपाती and दाल served in a ढाभा are no different than those that are served in a गुरु का लँगर. The difference is that to those who believe in such things the taste of the लँगर (sanctified food) is very different.

    Likewise, to those who believe that Sharia Banking is more humane then “share” is very different from “interest”.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, ignorance is bliss. Interest goes up and down , according to economic climate , ALSO HOW THE HELL ISLAMIC BANK WILL GET DEPOSITS FROM SAVERS , AND IF THEY USE SHARIA PORKY INSTRUMENTS like investing that money somewhere , ISN’T THAT WHAT FUND MANAGERS DO.
    To “those who beleive” beating your wife for refusing sex is okay , should be asked to settle in the DESERTS of arabia , AND LEAVE US KAFFIRS to enjoy DONATO BRAMANTE

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    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Shan

    Ofcourse ignorance is bliss and prejudice fuels hevenly illusion of Ram Rajya.

    This link may help removal of the first. For the second you are on your own and can freely enjoy PRONTO BRHAMANTE (भ्रमंते) in Gravesend.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, the islamic banker, WHAT HAPPENED TO GERMAN BANKING CRISIS , INDIAN BANKING CRISIS , SWEDISH BANKING CRISIS, or did they avoid because theyy were SHARIA COMPLIANT
    Submission is the operative word when it comes to your STANCE

    Ravi Reply:

    Not sure I get your point.

    Not for the first time you are off piste.

    There are NO Banking Crisis in the Middle East, where Islamic Banking is the norm.

    The problem is that you are only against this, alternative form of Banking, because it has the word Islamic attached to it. Had it been Co-operative Banking or Gramine Banking system you would have been less venomous.

    Make the point leave abuse to Vijay and Shnenoy, they are tons better at it than you ever will be.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, UTTER BOLLOCKS, i am against any system that is UNYIELDING AND SELF SERVING , and makes no provision for ADAPTABILTY , for everything has to go through that BOOK. Oh yes there is another thing IT IS VICIOUSLY DISCRIMATORY , if you are working for a PORK SELLING COMPANY , or PADDY POWER OR AS CONFESSED BY YOU , your weakness for MUREE BEER , FROM ACROSS THE BORDER, then you are BARRED. HARDLY EGALITARIAN IS IT

    Ravi Reply:

    I will leave it at that. Your views are crunchy as Pork Scratchings.

    Guest Reply:

    How would a “liberal Hindu”. Ravi know how crunchy pork scrachings are? Hahaha. Fake poser.

    Ravi Reply:

    Simple. They are available in every pub in England. You should try them, they are great with a pint of bitter truth, that you are nothing more than a naked Saffron Terrorist.

    Guest Reply:

    And you are a green panty wearing arabized Islamist weakling masquerading as a “liberal Hindu” because you are a coward.

    Ravi Reply:

    And you are pink chadi wearing hindu fundo who is here peddling RSS rancid propaganda.

    Guest Reply:

    How would a “liberal Hindu”. Ravi know how crunchy pork scrachings are? Hahaha. Fake poser.

    Guest Reply:

    Oh boy. “liberal Hindu” Ravi only has respect for the Arab cult but only hate for his “own” religion. :-) . A very “liberal Hindu” indeed or maybe a practioner of taqqiya against the knave kafirs.

    Guest Reply:

    Oh boy. “liberal Hindu” Ravi only has respect for the Arab cult but only hate for his “own” religion. :-) . A very “liberal Hindu” indeed or maybe a practioner of taqqiya against the knave kafirs.

    Guest Reply:

    “liberal Hindu” Ravi arguing in favor of Islamic banking which is consistent with sharia. Very liberal indeed.

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    Tasneem Reply:

    He is arguing for the truth, and presently that is what is needed in this so called modern world.

    Guest Reply:

    What’s truth got to do with banking ? Honesty maybe but truth? There is nothing philosophical about banking. It’s a business like another enterprise.

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Ravi, the quintessence is not “belief” as you state and expect any one with any iota of ‘common sense’ to accept. It is clearly an extension of a “pseudo-ummah”, just as the insistence of halal meat is just not the sanctity of the so-called prayer made at the time of inflicting untold brutality on an animal, it is strictly about economic apartied. The business should go ONLY to a fellow muslim, why should any Kaffir get to handle that business. Please read the scriptures of this “ummah” lot and all stands out in stark relief. You are not deluding any one but yourself when you bark for this group of “ummah focussed fanatics”.

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    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    Can you outline the simmilarities/Differences between imaginary Ummah and the equally fancy-full Ram Rajya.
    I look forward to your reply.

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    I hold no brief for the Ram-Rajya lot, why do you thrust that on my lap? I made no mention of it at all. Your diversionary tactics are from the typical Islamic apologetics stable. You are so obsessed with the dilution of Islamic fervour among the educated muslims and the increasing confidence of Hindus. I repeat, do not speak on behalf of this “ummah nutheads” before reading the scriptures of this “ummah-lot” in a language that you can comprehend and the essence of what I have said emerges withing the first 15 pages of that “terror-manual”.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    I do not hold any brief on behalf of any Muslims, whether they are educated, Nut cases or even if they are ex-president of India.

    I do oppose KNEE JERKERS like you, who irrationally react to any thing that has Islam associated with it.

    You brought Umma in to the discussion not me, and all I am doing is pointing that we have our own H I N D U Fruit & Nut cases, who hanker after our own Umma which is Ram Rajya.
    I guess you have not read very many of our own manuals which are also full of severly objectionable material.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, the word proportionality does not exist in your lexicon ,particularly when discussing islamic fundo vs hindu fundos

    Ravi Reply:

    You mean just as words like Rationality and Humanity exist in your lexicon but always devoid of any meaning or conviction.

    Ravi Reply:

    You mean just as words like Rationality and Humanity exist in your lexicon but always devoid of any meaning or conviction.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, the word proportionality does not exist in your lexicon ,particularly when discussing islamic fundo vs hindu fundos

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ “Ravi” I would treat the Hindu and Christian ‘nut-heads’ with the same logic of humanistic principles as I treat the devious and brutal concepts in Islam. You have not met any point raised by me, but went up a self created diversion and are attempting to get “brownie-points”. All you have successed is to expose your total bias against anything Hindu thus making a fool of yourself. Come on, get a life that has some ethics and with a trace of nation building.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    If what you say is the truth then I will appreciate your contributions.
    Though I must say that those that I have read so far have been mainly anti muslim, irrationally so.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    If what you say is the truth then I will appreciate your contributions.
    Though I must say that those that I have read so far have been mainly anti muslim, irrationally so.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Bose
    I do not hold any brief on behalf of any Muslims, whether they are educated, Nut cases or even if they are ex-president of India.

    I do oppose KNEE JERKERS like you, who irrationally react to any thing that has Islam associated with it.

    You brought Umma in to the discussion not me, and all I am doing is pointing that we have our own H I N D U Fruit & Nut cases, who hanker after our own Umma which is Ram Rajya.
    I guess you have not read very many of our own manuals which are also full of severly objectionable material.

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    I hold no brief for the Ram-Rajya lot, why do you thrust that on my lap? I made no mention of it at all. Your diversionary tactics are from the typical Islamic apologetics stable. You are so obsessed with the dilution of Islamic fervour among the educated muslims and the increasing confidence of Hindus. I repeat, do not speak on behalf of this “ummah nutheads” before reading the scriptures of this “ummah-lot” in a language that you can comprehend and the essence of what I have said emerges withing the first 15 pages of that “terror-manual”.

  • Neel

    Just because US, UK and other countries are adopting it … doesn’t mean it should be done in India as well. Majority of them are Christian countries and their laws are not the same as we have in India. Also, the Muslims there are little more matured then the one’s in India.

    If Indian Muslims are really fond of Sharia law and Islamic finance then they better migrate to middle-east or Pakistan. They don’t do that … because they know what respect they get in those countries.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Neel
    In these countries Indian Hindus do not fare any better.

    [Reply]

    Guest Reply:

    “liberal Hindu” Ravi quietly slipped in a lie there hoping that no be will notice. Haha..Hindus don’t fare any better. Really? Really?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Most people outside India can not tell the difference between an Indian (Hindu) and a Pakistani (Muslim) if you think that is a lie then you live in a cloud cukoo land.

    Guest Reply:

    Another deflection. No one claimed that. Your point is Hindus are not doing better in those countries. That’s a premeditated lie from “liberal Hindu” Ravi. Looks like “liberal Hindu” Ravi is not just illiberal but also is deceitful.

    Ravi Reply:

    आओ ट्विस्ट करें

    Guest Reply:

    Another deflection. No one claimed that. Your point is Hindus are not doing better in those countries. That’s a premeditated lie from “liberal Hindu” Ravi. Looks like “liberal Hindu” Ravi is not just illiberal but also is deceitful.

  • Anonymous

    Just returned from Milan , THE LAND OF PORK(parma ham). Islamic civilization hasn’t produced anything comparable to HIGH RENAISSANCE, leonardo , the last supper , at santa maria del grazia.
    WHAT BARBARAISM RELIGION CAN INFLICT SAW WITH OWN EYES.
    The bishop had enlarged the door entrance to a KITCHEN , thus chopping of a part of the painting showing christ’s legs under the table .
    AS FOR ISLAMIC BANKING , IT IS AN UTTER FAILURE IN UK , I had discussed this at length in Vinod Sharma’s blog , let me do a copy and paste of the same

    Folks , was rather busy watching Euro 2012 , but found time to watch a
    discussion on NDTV.What i heard SENT SHIVERS DOWN MY SPINE.
    apparently CONgress is thinking about allowing ISLAMIC BANKING in India.
    Subramanium Swamy , for whom I have great respect (he is a harvard graduate)
    was
    rightly strident in his opposition to the idea. This may open the
    floodgates for terrorist funding. Also a canard is being propagated
    about the success of islamic banking in UK.THIS IS A LIE . Islamic
    banking has been an utter failure in uk.http://shar.es/mkVXs. here is a quote from a hardcore jihadi website
    “Since its inception IBB has never made a profit. Not once, not ever.
    Rather, the company has reported combined losses of almost £45 million
    (GBP), and its shares have lost more than 95% of their value since the
    highs enjoyed during the early years. But at least it’s fared better
    than many of its contemporaries in the industry. So what about the rest
    of the UK’s Islamic finance providers?

    Well, the UK’s first Halal insurance firm, Salaam Insurance,
    spectacularly shut up shop in 2009 after less than 18 months of trading.
    Lloyds TSB, which made a half-hearted stab at Shariah-compliant
    products in 2004, doesn’t seem to have promoted its offering for years.
    alburaq – owned by Arab Banking Corporation – has effectively withdrawn
    its savings and mortgage products from the mass market and now serves
    only the wealthiest of customers.”
    Apparently ISLAMIC BANKS wont lend to a butcher who does not practice two and a half slit ,and to PORK SELLERS.
    DOESN’T INDIA’S CLAIM TO BE A SECULAR REPUBLIC LOKKS LIKE A CRUELJOKE.
    Also i understood WHY MUSLIMS ALL OVER THE WORLD WILL REMAIN LAGGARD FOR ANOTHER 500 YRS.
    This
    ex diplomat WAJAHAT HABIBULLAH rather than come out and openly
    declare his opposition to RELIGION MEDDLING IN MODERN BANKING , PRACTICE
    , he was ctually supporting it. His argument , apparently 1000crore is
    lying idle. That means muslims are stashing away this money rather than
    deposit it in a bank FOR WANT OF A ISLAMIC BANK

    [Reply]

  • Abu Ahmed

    What Muslims need is more micro-finance and all those schemes which the govt offers to fellow Indians, to be disbursed without any discrimination & injustice on grounds of religion. Several national banks in Hyderabad refused to open savings accounts for economically weaker Muslim students who were granted educational scholarships by the govt. It needed much cajoling, convincing and pleading at the branch manager’s level just to open a savings account enabling those Muslim students to receive their scholarships. With this kind of hatred, animosity and resistance that Muslims have to surmount in order to receive a government disbursed scholarship at the local bank level, one can imagine the kind of revulsion, hatred and loathing that the mere mention of the name Islamic finance induces in the educated, extremist Hindu. Subbu Swamy is the best example of that.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Agreed

    [Reply]

    Guest Reply:

    If what you are saying about banks not allowing Muslims to open savings account, that’s a crime under Indian anti discrimination laws. You shouldn’t be pleading with the banking manager. You should be reporting him. Are you sure that they were refused accounts because of their religion or because of other legal reasons like not being able show permanent address and such?

    [Reply]

    Guest Reply:

    If what you are saying about banks not allowing Muslims to open savings account, that’s a crime under Indian anti discrimination laws. You shouldn’t be pleading with the banking manager. You should be reporting him. Are you sure that they were refused accounts because of their religion or because of other legal reasons like not being able show permanent address and such?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    JP Morgan, Citibank, Morgan Stanley and few more banks have Islamic bankings. That is just to attract money from Arabs in a different format. Only
    fools will believe that these banks follow Shria type of banking when investing
    the funds recieved from Musim investors. The reason Arabs want Sharia complaint banking is only to spread Islam. In doing this they don’t mind losing
    few billions. It is impossible to run a Islmic back formed on Sharia laws in today’s
    world.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr GulamMohamadIslamophobe.

    That is just to attract money from Arabs in a different format.

    So tell me who is being cynical in the above statement. The Muslim Arab who is giving money, with the intention of spreading Islam, or the western Banks, who despite this very knowledge, are willingly accepting the money and therefore the Islamic Influence.

    Has thinking got out of fashion in your tribe.

    Oh BTW while you are in the mood for explaing perhaps you can explain what your ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS says about the following BANKING CRISIS of the last 5 years or so.

    1 The Icelandic Banking Crisis.
    2. The US Banking Crisis.
    3. The Irish Banking Crisis.
    4. The UK Banking Crisis.
    5. The current Spanish Banking Crisis.

    So much for the Western Banking System.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Didn’t realise YOU WILL BE SO BRAZEN IN YOUR SUPPORT FOR FELLOW JIHADIS. so according you 1,We should all get circumcised2. Marry four times , divorce by just uttering Talaq four times3. You may consider putting up a matrimonial ad for a 15yr old virgin happy to emigrate to UK. And everythink will be hunky dory .By the way shall we embrace Shia or Sunni branch of islam.Given your outpourings it has to be WAHABI SUNNI.
    If a drug is discovered from the PIG’S BLOOD which cures CANCER. What would advice your BROTHERHOOD , die a horrible death or take the medicine which rest of humanity will have no problem with.
    Lots of medicines produce SIDE EFFECTS , how about discarding western medicine and fall back on islamic scriptures
    A little thought to munch with yout dal chappati in your langar
    along with Ascot PORK PIES AND MUREE BEER brewed in the
    soft spot ofyour heart MUREE IN PAKISTAN, near SIALKOT

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Shan

    I said none of the above.

    All of it is said by you.

    How revealing!!!!!

    I reccomend anger management course. I am told the NHS runs them free for their staff.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    This banking crisis is because banks wavered from their trational banking and indulged more in speculative business.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan
    In the context of Islamic Banking, what is the point you wish to make.
    Is it that Western Banking Crisis (what ever the reason) is perfectly understandable, but the desire for an Islamic banking is beyond reason.
    If that is the case then you are on your own there. If not I am happy to hear the point you wish to make.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    You had asked another gentleman about the reason of
    banking crises all over the world. My response was to that
    query only.

    Guest Reply:

    Fools (Arabs) deserve to be fooled. Let’s see how the world treats them when the oil dries up. They will understand their true worth then. Unfortunately for them, they can’t do what their ancestors did under the guidance of Mohammad. That is plunder and loot civilized societies. “liberal Hindu” Ravi, are you sure that you are liberal and Hindu? I wonder why a liberal guy would support 6th century primitive practices from Arabia. Only an arabized would do that.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I am about as sure about my Liberalism as I am of your fascism and irrational Islamophobia

    Guest Reply:

    Fascism is about imposing ones beliefs on others. Islamist is intrinsically fascist in nature. “liberal Hindu” Ravi, you know that Hinduism cannot be that way because it’s not setup for that. But you would agree with that because you are “liberal Hindu” Ravi who support illiberal Islamism.

    Ravi Reply:

    Main stream Hinduism is not fascist, but RSS interpretation of it is. To me mainstream Hinduism is one of the most noblest religion in the world.

    Whatever I am, I am. But you are most certainly are a crypto fascist.

    Guest Reply:

    And you are a supporter of a dangerous fascist Arab cult because you are a pseudo “liberal Hindu” poser. People who support foreign cults are generally called as traitors. But anyways, you have been propagandized. There is not much hope for this arabized nitwit who calls himself “liberal Hindu”.

    Ravi Reply:

    Main stream Hinduism is not fascist, but RSS interpretation of it is. To me mainstream Hinduism is one of the most noblest religion in the world.

    Whatever I am, I am. But you are most certainly are a crypto fascist.

  • Anonymous

    JP Morgan, Citibank, Morgan Stanley and few more banks have Islamic bankings. That is just to attract money from Arabs in a different format. Only
    fools will believe that these banks follow Shria type of banking when investing
    the funds recieved from Musim investors. The reason Arabs want Sharia complaint banking is only to spread Islam. In doing this they don’t mind losing
    few billions. It is impossible to run a Islmic back formed on Sharia laws in today’s
    world.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The share of Islamic banking in Gulf countries is very small
    In Dubai there are three Islamic banks – Dubai Islamic Bank, Emirates Islamic
    Bank – My wife has a interest bearing fixed deposit with this bank., though word interest is not used- and Noor Islamic in comparison there are many local and foreign banks who are the back bone of the banking industry in this country. It has become very dificult to run banking 100% Sharia complaint because of that many such banks have started indulging in traditional banking.

    Failure of Islamic Finance.

    http://muslimmatters.org/2010/07/15/the-failure-of-islamic-finance/

    Author has mentioned Saudi British bank is part owned by HSBC and Standard Chartered. This is because of the law in Saudi that banks cannot
    get a license without a local partner that is why even the name of the bank
    has to be changed. US bank Citibank is called SAMBA – Saudi American Bank- in Saudi.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    let RAVI answer your post , After your Expose’ HE WILL DROWN HIS SORROW IN A PUB IN Havelock Road

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    What is there to answer.
    There is no question here.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    What is there to answer.
    There is no question here.

    [Reply]

  • Tasneem

    In this so called modern world where everything is going up side down, recession after recession , instability after instability, “islamic banking” or in other words “interest- free banking” is the only as well as the right alternative.
    The name itself; “interest-free banking” proves its purity and right intention.
    Interest banking , solely focuses on money, hardly cares for the actual condition for the party, and see for yourself the outcome. Banks practicing years of interest banking are in a break-down.
    Be broad-minded, just because interest-free banking is also called Islamic banking, does not mean that it will lead to another break-down. Know the concept of Islamic banking, and you will find it really worth. And of course time will prove.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Tasneem, Please, you have had the benefit of secular education, why dont to exticate your grey cells from the madrassa pits.
    Today’s economics has not been invented by an individual but it developed as a science based on the experience of economic dealings and transactions followed by man from time immemorial. It is ridiculous that some Muslim fanatics are toiling to mould that science to accommodate the dictates of an illiterate fellow, who lived in Arabia 1,400 years ago, whose economic wisdom was limited to plundering and looting the wealth and riches of the infidel kafirs. But these stupid Muslim economists are striving hard to establish a nonsensical economic theory that suited the 7th century Arabia. Beside that, these stupid economists are claiming that their nonsensical economic theory is far superior to the conventional 21st century economics. May Allah help them to develop their superior economic theory and lead them to prosperity, without moulding the conventional financial sciences to give Islamic color. Coming to figures that we can account , Isklamic banking thathas its origins onlyabot 25 years ago in Saudi Arabia, it is a total prorpoganda non-issue, only to be screamed about, not to be used for one’s hard earned money.

    [Reply]

    Tasneem Reply:

    Interest free banking is not created by any individual but by the Creator of the individual who is well aware of the science of every individual. ”
    Today’s economics has not been invented by an individual but it developed as a science based on the experience of economic dealings and transactions followed by man from time immemorial” and that’s why its failing.Human and Creator do differ.
    The modern bank focuses only on money, not caring weather the borrower is benefiting from it or not, not concerned weather the borrower will be able to pay the interest or not, all it wants is its money back at right time otherwise increase in the rate of interest ultimately leading to suicide of the depressed. Its poison, a slow poison. Whereas interest-free banking equally shares the profit and loss of the borrower. Mind me. profit and LOSS.
    now look for yourself, which system is barbaric?

    [Reply]

    Guest Reply:

    Ok. Allah from Arabia created the banking system “scientifically”. You can’t even leave science alone. You have insert religion and god into that too.

    Ravi Reply:

    God bless you, for you are beyond any human help.

    Guest Reply:

    :-) . A “liberal Hindu” who is now supporting “Islamic science” also known as vodoo science. This is addition to supporting Islamic sharia, Islamic banking, Islamic Taliban, Islamic this and islamic that..

    Ravi Reply:

    I recommend three deep breaths. Anger
    will pass over and rationality will return, then you will read your own vomit and re-ingest it.

    Guest Reply:

    I recomend not bending over towards Arab lands and not succumbing to imperialism propagated through an Arab cult posing as a religiön. But your case is hopeless. You appear to be a pseudo “liberal Hindu” propagandized nitwit. But you should at least try. Don’t be so weak and Disgrace your ancestors.

    Ravi Reply:

    And you are a dyed in saffron Hindu Fundo a RSS dog

    Guest Reply:

    I recomend not bending over towards Arab lands and not succumbing to imperialism propagated through an Arab cult posing as a religiön. But your case is hopeless. You appear to be a pseudo “liberal Hindu” propagandized nitwit. But you should at least try. Don’t be so weak and Disgrace your ancestors.

    Ravi Reply:

    I recommend three deep breaths. Anger
    will pass over and rationality will return, then you will read your own vomit and re-ingest it.

    Tasneem Reply:

    Islam is a complete way of life, its not only a religion

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Tasneen .agree..Islam is a cult and Islam is ONLY for morons unlimited. Morons who are terrorized not to question or brain numb zombies who wear their phallus where they should be keeping their brains.

    Guest Reply:

    Huh? So you take the Koran to school and throw out all other books since “Islam is the a complete way of life”. Clear sign of arabization.

    Tasneem Reply:

    Islam includes the school education too, various scientific facts which are proved today were revealed in the Quran 1,400 years ago. Back in those days, the people who denied, laughed at those facts but today the same facts are proved true. This itself is a proof that Quran is the true Holy Book revealed from the true Creator. Today you may laugh at interest-free banking but in future it will be proved successful just like the other facts.

    Guest Reply:

    Ok. Allah from Arabia created the banking system “scientifically”. You can’t even leave science alone. You have insert religion and god into that too.

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ Tasneen, are you alluding to that “Creator” who got the inheritance percentages totally wrong, just one of the mathematical nonsense summations that even a primary school boy would get right, if he did not study in a any madrassa : ¼ +1/3+2/3= 1 … !!!
    Is his the same “Creator” who laid the earth out as a carpet? of the word of the illiterate wagon-looter/slave-merchant/pedophile/necrophile who said that the sun rests under the throne of Allah each evening?
    Come on dont let people get a terrible opinion of the quality of education you have received over a decade and a half!
    Beside, I just love that sanctimonious tone that emanates from your writing! The arrogance of your ignorance is really wonderful relief.

    Tasneem Reply:

    Interest free banking is not created by any individual but by the Creator of the individual who is well aware of the science of every individual. ”
    Today’s economics has not been invented by an individual but it developed as a science based on the experience of economic dealings and transactions followed by man from time immemorial” and that’s why its failing.Human and Creator do differ.
    The modern bank focuses only on money, not caring weather the borrower is benefiting from it or not, not concerned weather the borrower will be able to pay the interest or not, all it wants is its money back at right time otherwise increase in the rate of interest ultimately leading to suicide of the depressed. Its poison, a slow poison. Whereas interest-free banking equally shares the profit and loss of the borrower. Mind me. profit and LOSS.
    now look for yourself, which system is barbaric?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Tasneem mohatarma, THERE IS NOTHING CALLED A FREE LUNCH.
    wHEN YOU GO TO A SHOP TO BUY BIRYANI , DO YOU GET IT FREE.
    no you dont. Same principle applies here . Think about PENSIONERS, if they dont get interest , what will be their situation.WHAT WILL PROMPT PEOPLE TO PUT MONEY IN SAVINGS ACCOUNT, IF THERE IS NO INTEREST TO BE accrued.
    The banking crisis in the mainly ANGLO SAXON world is because they were putting money in very high risk project, in other words LAX REGULATION.
    But this has been tightened , and was always tight in INDIA , so no banking crisis in India , DESPITE NO SHARIA COMPLIANCE SO FAR, though one is not sure how long that will last given the stand of VOTE BANK POLITICS

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/ShahidBukhari Shahid Bukhari

    Wealth … in any concept … including the Islamic concept, means …
    “Human effort, translated into printed Paper Promissory Notes” … Since its the most practical, and I agree, for it makes the day to day exchanges, easier to conduct than Barter.

    The only conditionality, in Islamic Finance, is, that Wealth should follow the Natural course in a Just Distribution of Wealth, so that “wages of labour” are Justly distributed among the people …

    Because … In Islam … The Flow of Wealth, follows Gravity … Thus, Money flows downward … from the top … to the bottom, in an Islamic society …

    Whereas … In the Swami’s idea … an Ideal Economy is one, where Wealth [is made to flow] in an un-natural direction against all norms … and made to accumulate in a few hands … then these few hands, must pass it on to the top … like IMF.

    The mere renaming of “Interest” … as “Profit” or, the still holier ” Musharika” or “Mudaraba” does not make any Economy, Islamic.
    Just as if Swami adopted
    the name “Abdul Salam” … it does not make him a Muslim.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Money flows fromTOP TO BOTTOM in a CAPITALIST SYSTEM , it is also known as TRICKLE DOWN THEORY.
    In a capitalist system , THERE IS NOTHING CALLED A FREE LUNCH.
    just like if i deposit my money to the bank I EXPECT INTEREST,similarly if the bank lends me money THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ASK FOR INTEREST, which is same as a BIRYANI shop owner asks you for the PRICE that includes labour and not only thr value of rice and meat and also a small profit. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE IS IT

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Money flows fromTOP TO BOTTOM in a CAPITALIST SYSTEM , it is also known as TRICKLE DOWN THEORY.
    In a capitalist system , THERE IS NOTHING CALLED A FREE LUNCH.
    just like if i deposit my money to the bank I EXPECT INTEREST,similarly if the bank lends me money THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ASK FOR INTEREST, which is same as a BIRYANI shop owner asks you for the PRICE that includes labour and not only thr value of rice and meat and also a small profit. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE IS IT

    [Reply]

  • K

    Why not Hindu banking in Saudia?

    Nonsense Indeed….

    [Reply]

  • Zinda Hoon

    muslim bashing is different from islam bashing. So, please learn to differentiate. Islam is a belief system, a deadly cult in my opinion (muslims themselves don’t realize it, coz of childhood brainwashing and many of them are simple minded folks :- textbook definition of a cult). All this is coming from someone who has many muslim friends.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/fazel.subian Fazel Subian

    Understand RIBA(w)’ through Acronyms>
    HARAM – sacred or forbidden?
    Understand your religion.
    ‘TRUE ESSENCE OF RELIGIONS’ To unite all.
    http://www.fazelsubian.com

    [Reply]