With a little malice towards Khushwant



A missed Khushwant Singh column does to me all that a missed Khushwant Singh column can do. It makes my Sundays dreary.

Thankfully, most newspapers – metropolitan and regional – carry his ‘malice…’ column. So, wherever your travel takes you, Khushwant Singh’s malice is sure to follow you in right there: Hyderabad, Guwahati, Bhubaneswar or Mumbai.

There was a time when I used to edit Khushwant Singh’s ‘malice’ column for HT. Of course, one never had to rewrite his manuscripts for clarity, as is the case with many writers. That was never going to be the case.

Occasionally, a line had to be shortened or added, or a word lopped off so that the piece fitted in. This was always tricky. A shoddy editing job could turn a piece into a mutilated masterpiece. My editor trusted me to do this job.

I was aware that Singh was ripe old. At that age, mental faculties tend to wilt, the brain actually shrinks in size and most people lose the ability to do things accurately. Therefore, I would closely read through the manuscript, but without much success at finding even typos. Very rarely would Khushwant Singh miss a comma.

The manuscript would come with catchphrases, but never with a complete headline. So, my job was to think hard of what headline to give. Should it be profane, or witty or even flirty as Khushwant Singh often is? Ultimately, the content dictated the headline’s tone and tenor.

I would also look for appropriate pictures to go with the ‘malice’ column. It was a job I loved and now miss, having moved on to doing something far more tricky – fighting Islamophobia, writing on minority issues and what it means to be a Muslim today.

Once, Khushwant Singh expressed a wish to meet the person who handled his column at the Hindustan Times, whose editor he was many years ago. I was very excited. So, one wintry Delhi evening, Sushmita Bose, a colleague, and I landed up at his ground floor pad at Sujan Singh Park, dot at the top of the hour.

Khushwant Singh was – expectedly – downing pegs of Scotch and nibbling off a rind of fine cheese, with his son for company. He reached for Sushmita’s hand, kissed it and got talking. Of course, Sushmita, the only woman among us, got most of the attention.

Khushwant Singh told me that he was happy to see young Muslims take up journalism.

Khushwant Singh is perhaps the only contemporary newspaper columnist who writes not so much with the intention of violently moulding public opinion but to entertain, apprise and hold the mirror up. Yet, his writings are unsurpassed in their abiding popularity.

His pen is so homespun, anecdotal and easy-going. It can be caustic without the rage, provoking without the jab and insightful without being condescending.

I sometimes wonder why some of our present-day columnists – the Barkha Dutts, the Sagarika Ghoses or Shekhar Guptas – don’t take a leaf out of him, be less hectoring but more engaging?

Such lavish praise of Khushwant may cause you to suspect that I am up to something sinister. You might say, halal se pehle, bakre se mohabbat, Zia?

This Sunday’s ‘with malice towards one and all’ ruminates about the state of Pakistan, and rightly so. Every other day, there are bomb blasts in Pakistan, he says. No one is sure why Muslims are killing Muslims. The mullahs seem to be extending their influence. So on and so forth.

Khushwant Singh then focuses on the state of Pakistan’s women. He rues that more and more women are taking to burqas. A community that confines half its population in purdah cannot succeed, he writes. Male chauvinism was on the rise.

To the extent of confining women and keeping them from exploring their options, I agree with Khushwant Singh. But Pakistan descending into intractable chaos and purdah putting fetters on women are half truths.

Sometimes, Pakistan’s assessment is unfairly harsh. There is a thriving body of civil society members who are attempting to reconcile liberalism and Islam. Sometime after 9/11, when a delegation of reputed Pakistanis was invited to Delhi, I met some of them. I met a young lady from Swat, a lawyer, who has been a powerful voice against extremists there.

I had long chats with Asma Jahangir and Jugnu Mohsin. Sherry Rahman, a Pakistani parliamentarian, is the bravest of Pakistani women. One could read up this great piece on the Christian Science Monitor on Sherry. It is temptingly titled thus: “Could there be a liberal Pakistan? Sherry Rehman says she’s working on it.”

Purdah isn’t confined to Pakistan, as Khushwant Singh points out. It is practised in most of India, by Hindu, Sikhs, Muslims and Jains alike. In traditional bania families, women, especially daughters-in-law, seldom go out without covering their faces with the long end of their saaris. I find it ridiculous when people associate purdah with Islam.

Islam and liberalism, as philosophical systems, are largely mutually exclusive and competitive. But there is evidence that the two are reconcilable. Women like Sherry Rehman or Asma Jahangir are proof of this. Of course, some of them may not be willing to raise their hands for Khushwant Singh to hold and to kiss.

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  • Gopi Thomas

    Well, hope is not either a strategy; or cannot substitute for aspiration.

    “thriving civil society’ in Pakistan — a nice idea!

    Zia is out of his mind when he equivocates Muslim burqua with Hindu, or Jain women coveing their head with sari palloos.. He must be feeling real bad when Muslim women in Pak and india are weraing burqua..

    There is no reconciliation within today;s Islam. May be, a big may be, after they create all these killing fields all over, may be good sense may prevail. Until then we all watch this race to nadir, race to AD 650, race away from progress, learning, citizenship

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    nair gopi why u dont come here now with great 7th century ideas,i wait for u,when i was in school i was taught a story on MEERA BAI,WHICH I NARRATE HERE which shows hindu idea on women,

    ——————————————————————————–

    Meera murdered by vaidik Brahmins for disobeying their order

    For the first time in known history, Budha initiated a woman, Ambapali, in Dhamma Order. After that for 2,000 years not a single woman (except Sanghmitra, daughter of Emperor Ashok) could enter the domain of Dhamma preachers. It is very perplexing that after a whopping period of 2,000 years, it was only Guru Ravidas who dared to initiate a woman (Meera) to the path of Dhamma preaching.

    The life story of Meera, as taught in school books, tells that at the age of 4-5, she decided to marry a Brahmanic god, Krishna. But when she grew up, she was married off to one Bhoj, brother of an infamous Rana. But soon she became widow. Then she set out in quest of god Krishna.

    RANA’S CRUELTIES
    Rana annoyed with her love for Krishna, made several attempts to kill her but with the grace of her Giridhar, she survived. Fed up of Rana’s cruelties, she left home and reached Dwarka. Rana sent his Brahmans emissaries to bring her back. One evening they found her in a temple. Next morning, the Brahmans showed the odhani i.e. mantle of Meera, to the devotees and declared that she has “penetrated” into the idol of Krishna.

    A simple perusal of this **** and bull story reveals that it is nothing but a cold blooded murder.

    The reasons are:

    (1). No devotee of any stature could ever enter the idol of any god — leave alone a small creature like Meera. Even Sankaracharya, the “supreme saint of Brahmanism”, could not put even nail of his little finger into any of his gods’ idols.

    (2). After the event of “penetration”, the physical appearance, life of Meera ended.

    (3). Only three things can bring death : i) age (natural death), ii) self ( suicide) and iii) others (homicide- murder or accident). The death to Meera did not come because of these three factors. Hence she did not die a natural death. We find no mention that she committed suicide or that she met with an accident.

    (4). No book or story mentions the place where she died, where her funeral rites were held, who lit her pyre, who immersed her ashes into which river etc. It proves that no such thing happened with Meera.

    In other words the Brahmins not only brutally murdered her but also disposed of her body without performing any rites.

    (5). The Brahmins have the right to commit such an act as per their sacred scripture which declares that as agni does not acquire any sin for burning innocent people. So too the Brahmin acquires no sin for doing any sinful act. Hence what ‘sins’ those sin-proof Brahmins committed to Meera for whole night, is anybody’s guess.

    MURDER PERMITTED
    (6). The history of Brahminism is testimony to the fact that they murdered anybody and everybody who challenged their supremacy. Even their supreme god Vishnu was kicked by the Brahmin for not doing Namaste. Right from Vritar, Nahush, Ravana, Charvak, Moglanya, Vrihdarth to Guru Ravidas and Meera, the list of their victims is endless. If Parshu, the Brahmin, could commit wholesale genocide of Kshtriyas, what resistance tiny Meera could pose before their mafia might?

    (7). A child at the age of 4-5 years cannot take ‘decision’ or ‘pledge’ to marry a particular person. We find no mention in her entire volume of writings that she ever pledged to marry Krishna. Nor do we find any mention that she resisted marrying Bhoj. So the story of her promise to marry Krishna is also bogus. More so a god is always treated as ‘Father’ and never as ‘husband’ or sex partner.

    (8). Among Rajputs (clan of Meera & Rana) worshipping the Brahminic god Krishna is not a sin and nor a crime that attracts capital punishment. There were and are thousands of Rajputanis who revere Krishna. We find no mention that of any of other women being persecuted on this plea.

    CRIMES OF MEERA
    (9). Rather her ‘love’ for Krishna was way of advertisement for Brahmins to increase their income from Rajput families. Hence ‘Krishna’ could never be reason for annoyance to Rana or his master :Brahmins.

    Hence the real question is : What ‘crime’ did Meera commit that the Brahmins had no choice but to eliminate her? The series of her ‘crime’ include :

    (1). In a clan where a widow was bound to be burnt alive with her husband’s corpse, Meera defied this ‘holy rule’. It was not less than a revolt/coup. She even did not get her head tonsured.

    (2). Not only she defied this ‘holy rule’, she also challenged the supremacy of Brahmins who made this rule. Her bani is testimony to this fact.

    (3). She did not stop there. She went to the extent of denouncing all Brahminic rituals and dogmas, their scriptures, places of worship, gods and all. She called them matlab ke garji i.e. wretched selfish beings.

    (4). The last nail on her coffin proved to be her association with Guru Ravidas who baptized her in Sharman Dhamma. From her writings it appears she took asylum with Guru Ravidas after revolting against the holy rule of sati.

    (5). After joining Guru Ravidas’ Dhamma, she invited him to her native place. She offered him greater respect than to the Brahmins. This infuriated them to such an extent that they murdered Guru Ravidas on the spot. However, Meera escaped momentarily.

    (6). The most stunning part of her writings is the fact that she described Guru Ravidas as her ‘Giridhar Nagar’ (saint from city) ‘Gobind’ (god) ‘Bhagwan’ (god) ‘Priytam (dearest) ‘Bhedna (secret sharer), Swami (master).

    SAINT-SOLDIER OF RAVIDAS
    Hence, defiance of Brahmins, Brahmanism and reverence of an Untouchable was the reason for her brutal murder.

    The distorted life and struggle of Meera is one of the innumerable examples; how Brahmins can distort facts and history. She denounced all Brahminic gods, avtars including Krishna as worthless. But the whole world is made to believe that she loved and worshipped Krishna. Her Giridhar is made synonym of Krishna. If synonymous names could be basis for declaring ‘Giridhar Nagar’ to be ‘Giridhar Krishna’; should we call all persons having name as Dashrath as fathers of Ram. Or all Arjun named persons as jija (husband of sister) of Giridhar Krishna.

    Meera was a soldier in the army of saint-soldier Ravidas who raided castles of Brahminism. Both of them sacrificed their lives to save people from its clutches. But, alas, today both of them are being used as tools to spread Brahminism.

    [Reply]

    Rocky Reply:

    What a non sensical write up of our great saint and poetess Meera . If you don’t know the correct story do not at least misinform the public at large. Brahmins did a lot of nasty things, but murder of Meera Bai is only your fiction. Please give some historical details to substantiate your hair brained story.

    [Reply]

    Harish Reply:

    Bundle of lies.
    Meera herself was Brahmin and she loved Lord Krishna and Meera is held in very high esteem by Hindus because of her unquestionable devotion and love for Lord Krishna. Brahmism has prevailed over centuries becuase of its inner strength and greatness while loose faiths like non-hindu religions have to rely on lies, violence, propaganda just to survive. This is just another example.

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    tajender Reply:

    as per hindu law women is below shudr and above chandal.daughter of brhmn is not brhmn.

    VedicIndian Reply:

    The period you are talking about was the beginning of the end for the hindu vedic ideas… Its not a surprise since later the previously undefeatable vedic kings had to bow down before the mob of unruly marauders from the middle east. Surely, the corruption in the society was to be blamed.. However, as is evident from ancient vedic art, women were not particularly kept under wraps!

    [Reply]

    VedicIndian Reply:

    Despite being a reporter, you are severely under-educated, ZIA! READ THIS>>>>http://www.indianexpress.com/news/patils-purdah-remark-courts-controversy/33972

    Raj Reply:

    Wow,

    Tejender – you use a Hindu saint to justify Hindu traditions? Those were old times, just as unfair to say if I would propose that Sikh gurus were fraud godmen and militants – if equated with current times.

    Use that head of yours and get things in perspective.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Zia talks about civil society in pakistan. WHERE WERE THEY WHEN SALMAN TASSER WAS MURDERED. The civil society in paKistan is of the same stature and impact as that of Indian Football Team in World football. as for equivocating Hindu Aanchal or pallu drawn over the head with BURQA is like comparing eve teasing with Rape. Also as is known GHUNGHTA , USED TO BE USED AS A MARK OF RESPECT TO FATHER IN LAW ONLY. Other times women travelled without Ghunghta .
    I am reading a book on Persia. Apparently Islam was not like this circa 900 AD. There were schools who dismissed Quoran as DIVINE, for you cannot have two divinity, according to this school quoran is man made. Also this school did not beleive in predestination. Then there should be no sinner if all is preordained. Therefore this school beleived if sinner has to exist , THEN MAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS OWN ACTION , thus the corollary follows MAN HAS FREE WILL , TO DO AND THINK.
    Thus they took quoran’s words open for debate and interpretation NOT TO BE SWALLOWED WHOLESOME.The book is THE PERSIANS by HOMA KATOUZIAN

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    homa ia armenian he is biased.his thoughts and writings is as if bjp people write on congress.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Plonker Tejender , go to Amazon.com , look for the book , sometime you can see the book jacket, read about the author. He was BORN IN IRAN and Prof of Iranian History in Univ of Oxfoed, he edits the journal Iranian Studies , which is more that can be said about you ONLY FALTU BAKWAS

    Raj Reply:

    Still – how about I equate that biased view on your posts? Note – Hindu or Sikh/Jain women do not wear a special dress – if they cover their heads (like Sikhs do with turbans or all desis do at weddings) – it’s a mark of respect.

    If there is a special dress code – for instance, a nikab or some form of headscarf which is absolutely mandatory in any of these cultures – let me know. Last I read the dharmshastra – though backward, there were no dress codes mind you.

    In fact, please open your eyes when you speak about Hinduism (though backward at it’s time on today’s standards) – Sankhya and Nyaya major schools of HIndu philosophy were initiated and probably run by the wives of those rishis. Read up, yeah?

    Especially when you quote Meera – baffling. Try suggesting a female Mohammed… and see what happens. Oh yeah, did you hear regarding the UP protests? Apparently, your saint muslims are protesting because of some respectful depictions of their prophet in class 8 textbooks.

    This is the limit isn’t it? When muslims demand non-muslims follow their code of conduct (how are non-muslims bound to their traditions?!). So, if some non-muslim does depict a Mohammed caricature, for the ‘liberal’ and ‘peaceful’ islam, can you confirm why the fuss?

    I remember visiting a very very orthodox village in India when I was young, they mandated head covering of young women… but guess what, the older women didn’t even wear blouses… last I checked, I noticed liberal Hinduism of old through the Khajuraho.

    Face it already, in terms of philosophy, Hindus are the closest the greeks, and back then, our liberals were closes to modernity. Islam has a PR problem, don’t elevate Islam at the expense of other Asian traditions – Islam needs to act on it’s own accord, don’t drag us all in the mud which is quite frankly, your own doing.

  • Funny Side

    Sadly, most Muslims of northern India and Pakistan are still living in the post 1857 era. They are still battling with the same demons (english medium of education, college education of girls, working women etc); though urbanites are quite chic, the b-cities and towns, not to speak of villages, are still wallowing in the intellectual ghettos created as a reaction to the British. Come out of it dears – there are umpteen number of examples where muslims males and females are both liberal and muslims at the same time – like in Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt – Turkey is too much of a liberal-muslim country to be an inspirational story for small town Muslims.

    [Reply]

  • Funny Side

    Been following Khushwant since his Illustrated Weekly days; his Train to Pakistan is a big book on the partition and its human tragedy. Then his fictional stories based on Delhi’s history are a big draw. A true & great scholar of Persian/Urdu and Sikh History, Khushwant is a living legend. More power to his pen and more years to his age, Amen.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Kushwant should go to Luten in UK and see what Muslims have done there

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why not to go to dubai and kualampur and then to DELHI to see what hindus have done there.low caste muslims are 3000 year old victim of brhmnsm.will take another 2-3 decades to come at par with perpetuators.

    [Reply]

    VedicIndian Reply:

    really? how come islam has not delivered the from their low caste status? that was the promise, right? why do most of the converted still want to use their sc/st status to get jobs? the truth is they are considered low caste even within islamic community! not to mention, the poor sods have to contend with tons of sub-sects in islam which are constantly killing each other! Divisions in society are human-behavioural faults not based on religion!

    [Reply]

    Ramesh Manghirmalani, California Reply:

    It is always good to read Khushwant Singh, I used read Illustrated Weekly of India, either you agree or disagree with him it is fun to read his thoughts and drink Scotch with him, I must say he knows his drinks. , Singh is best known for his trenchant secularism.He an establishment liberal in his thoughts and up-bringing .

    Raj Reply:

    B/S – even Sikhs and Muslims have a caste system. Please see what the Ahmedis are – or better still, please look up the meaning of the term Mojahir or what the Moghul word for muslim converts are.

    Brahminism is precisely the reason why India survived the Greek invasion – the Buddhist period of India resulted in Muslim conquest if you ask me. Brahmins gave Indus it’s society and it’s history, sure, not all things were done right – but they did it.

    What did you Sikhs do anyways? Please enlighten. Apart from Khalistan – what have you done as people? Punjab, well, it’s a muslim state in Pakistan. Lahore, capital of Ranjit Singh – muslim dominated. Compare that with hindu states – Kashi et al…. we survived.

    Really, what have you Sikhs done at all for the Indus civilization? All you lot have are loud mouths… down with casteism – but that is not an exclusive Hindu tenet in South Asia. Versions are found – I think some Sikh lower caste guru died in Austria… yeah?

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    I find it ridiculous when people associate purdah with Islam.

    what. so now you are going to say its ridiculous to associate

    - guy with 4 wives
    - suicide bombing
    - isolation from mainstream of every country they live in

    with Islam?

    come on, what world do u live in?

    Dr M Iqbal Reply:

    1. Purdah or modesty, is a part of Islam but it is as misunderstood as Islam itself.
    Allah orders all believers (men or women) to lower their gazez, i.e. not to look at an opposite sex without a sane reason.
    2. 4 marriages are allowed in Islam with certain conditions, not ordered and you can not find a forth of whole Muslim population with 4 wives.
    3. Suicide is Haram (prohibited and hated) in Islam, as the life is given by God and is His property, nobody has any right to harm or even attempt to harm it. In Islam, a human life is most honourable, Quran says “Whoever slays a single human being without a reason, as if kills whole humanity and whoever saves the life of a human being, as if gives life to whole of the humanity.”
    Muslims never live in isolation, rather they are isolated for being a Muslim. It is obligatory on every Muslims to love his fellow citizens and obey the law of the land.

    tajender Reply:

    as per hinduism u can have 100 wives.dalmiya had 17 wives.rajputs used to had 30-40 wives.
    sikh rajas used to had many many wives.atleast 1 billions were burnt alive in sati and other prathas.lata mangeshkar was given to pujaris.kis muh se baat karte ho tum log.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Raj,
    For your information, this Tajender is a muslims probably from pakistan so don’t badmouth sikhs.

  • shan

    Few things we can safely conclude. If Zia is such a great fan of the SARDAR, then zia’s
    hormone levels are at the high end of normal bordering hypertestosteronism.I wonder if anybody remembers the scene from the film MONSOON WEDDING. one sardarni , sqat(fat and square),
    giggling away while she tells other squats , Remember he used to tell me GANDI GANDI JOKES.
    That is what khushwant Singh is renowned for GANDI GANDI JOKES. It somehow always involved the gluteal region.Otherwise I dont think any of his writing had any intellectual merit .
    Having graduated from KINGS COLLEGE London ,HE WAS MORE ANGLOPHILE THAN NIRAD CHOUDHARI. in fact I vividly remember him saying to a BBC reporter “I have always looked to england for inspiration”. The same sardar after Operation Bluestar , again said to this BBC reporter “Sikh’s should pay it back with guns”. This is time when he was the sugar daddy to another sardarni MANEKA GANDHI, thus on the other side of the gandhi fence.One can check with BBC archive for the veracity of my statements.
    The high point of his career is , making ILLUSTRATED WEEKLY , the topmost magazine while he was the editor.
    He made some derogatory remark about the standard of english in Tagore’s own translation of his poems. This was tantamount to heaping abuse on Prophet muhammad , so far Calcutta bengalees were concerned.
    He was roundly condemned by the BHADRALOK , who dismissed him as Three penny worth literary figure.
    Though the sardar was bowled over by a bengali delicacy called Payesh , which is rice and milk pudding with cardamon., i happen to remember reading it in one of his article.
    I would definitely not rely on him for any reasoned argument. He uses his heart , not his brain , he is all sentimental tosh when it comes to pakistan.
    As for barkha Dutt , she will be remembered for her oversize waist and NIRA RADIA BACKHANDERS.In fact india doesn’t have any journalist of any moral standind.
    MOST OF THEM ARE ON THE MAKE AMD ON THE TAKE

    [Reply]

  • ajay

    Zia,

    1) you can not (in right mind) compare Hindu women covering their heads to Burka – have you heard of any protests all over World against Hindu women covering their heads
    2) Purdah in India (and Hindus covering their heads) is one of many bad impacts of Invaders from North West (unfortunate and sad)
    3) so you only found K singh malicious when he wrote (first time) against Pakistan (and why are you offended by criticism of Pakistan – are you trying to prove those who say that Indian Muslims have special place for Pakistan)

    [Reply]

    Ramesh Manghirmalani, California Reply:

    Zia: Why are you so insecure about Mr. K Singh liberal way of expressing his opinion . You should read Train to Pakistan. Be a out side the box thinker .

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    what is wrong in purdah.muslim purdah is part of tradition not religion.pat is not better than dhoti.
    but nothing should be forced.if any lady wear islamic dress what is the proble.sikh wear turban,hindu put tilak.everything is ok if not forded.

    [Reply]

  • Jasdeep Singh Malhotra

    Pakistan civil society is making efforts to bring a revolution to ensure rights of all sections be respected.

    I think Khushwant Singh Ji is bit harsh in commenting or linking burqa with society’s transformation. Burqa might not be hindering the development and society evolution process in Pak.

    I feel womenfolk are more discriminated in India than in Pak (If you dont forget to consider rural areas in your sample.

    We are living in a country, where a father or brother still prefer to kill girl if she marry her lover from other caste. In Punjab and Haryana, several honour killing incidents happened in past one year to get front page space in newspapers.

    How can we forget to comment on girl foetus being “murdered” in wombs in Punjab. This border state has dubious distinction of lowest sex ratio in India. (might have recovered a bit in past two years). We are not allowing girls to take birth in Punjab.

    It will be better to comment on anti-women affairs prevelant in Punjab — before crossing over Wagah border to reach Pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Basically Zia wants to say that Khushwant Singh is great as long as he doesn’t talk against Islam and muslim society.
    What a nut!!!

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  • VedicIndian

    Agree with Ajay and Rajeev above! There is no reference to purdah system in our ancient texts. While it is true that women went under purdah to protect themselves from muslims’ evil eyes. If you note, its not prevalent in south india where the evil influence was lesser. QED!

    [Reply]

    Truespeak Reply:

    Could not agree more!

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    Shreya Reply:

    I think this is a very neutral take on the state of Pakistan’s civil society. Since I’ve had extensive interaction with people on the other side, I have a fair idea of how things have changed for women there. While most people in India continue to believe that it is an oppressive society out there, the truth is very different. I wish there be more writers who’d bring out the true picture. I really feel the state of Pakistan deserves at least a wee bit of appreciation of how i has liberalized (if not a whole lot, at least a bit) where basics like burqas, education for women, employment for women and the works are concerned. Kudos to you for bringing it out in this blog post!

    [Reply]

  • V. Kumar

    As long as we are on the topic of editing: “comma,” not “coma.”

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  • Indus Darya

    Mr Zia please dont be an apologist for Islam.
    Islam is simply the ideological basis for arab/ islamic conquest and plunder. It has had its day. The rantings of holy islamists is nothing more than a quest for power. Unfortunately, the world has changed and passed them by. We all hear about islam and rights of women but the reality is despicable.
    As for pakistan, it is a failed state and its creation was a huge mistake for which the blame ultimately has to be borne by the ego maniac jinnah for tipping things over the edge. The position of its minorities and women is utterly shameful.

    [Reply]

  • Bob Verde

    Hi Zia,
    your article is thought provoking and readable but I do not agree with your comparison between Burka & Purdah. Also you have been ranting about that you have been editing Khushwant Singh’s articles. I wonder who has edited this article of yours??? There are two glaring errors in your article: the words ‘coma’ and ‘daughter- in- laws’ should be ‘comma’ and ‘daughters- in- law’. Touche!

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    It is “news” that Pakistan has civil society. The lawyers there garlanded the killer of Salman Taseer!
    The PM and President did not attend the funeral because of fear for their lives if they attended the funeral! i wonder why Zia has to go overboard on showing Pakistan in a better image than what it really is.

    Pakistani Muslims, even if there are “civil society” people in large numbers, are not and will not be examples for Indians and Indian Muslims. that chord is cut because of the distortions they have made to their history text books, the animosity they spread over Iindia and Indians,a nd the constant terrorist incursions they do. The only prayer Indian Msulims and other Indians haveon Pakisttanis is “leave us alone, please”

    The purdah Zia attests is due to hois total lack of historical understanding. Hindu women in the south do not cover their heads, while the Hindu women in the North covers their head on seeing elders, and on specil occasions. This covering came from the Muslim invasion; a way of covering/protecting so that the invaders will not “own” tyhem and convert them. Nobody should be proud of those times..

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    mirza,

    sharm and haya is part of muslim religion and culture.in south women has to show her face and breast both.otherwise nair landlord will beat rape and toture her.women is curse and carrier of all evils in hindu culture and religion.she is murdered in womb killed while infant,burnt alive if
    dowry is not sufficient and left in vrindavan to die when old.sati was religious duty.as per god krishnas bhagwat geeta,
    she is not included in 4 castes,hence her killing is not considered sin.can not touch vedas.chastity is limited to women not men.pati is devta.she has no right to own property name or right to divorce.
    they are vamps of vedic vampire.all imaginary from bharat mata to blood thirsty durg.

    in northern india because of effects of islamic thought she got some respect and protection.
    but thoughts should change or modify with time.muslims and indian in genral dont have very good record in this field.

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    Not really, sati is not mentioned in the dharmshastra, manu smriti or otherwise. Give me references and evidence – what verse, which literature – being a brahmin, I will happily educate you to reality.

    Brahminism are the reason India survived, not relevant today, but at it’s peak, it repelled Alexander himself. Without it, India has no Ramayana, Mahabharat, Sikhism (kshatriya branch, given reincarnation), Buddhism, Jainism, theology or an identity.

    Give credit where due jackass. When you look at Varanasi, one of the 10 most continuously habited cities in the world, you know that Hinduism was always made to endure.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    after roop kanwar forced to sati shankaracharya of puri endorsed this action.billion of women were killed in these prathas,never any holy figure came to their rescue.when britishers called for reform ,ghandhi was brought from south africa to kick them out and undo all social progress made during british raj.
    our dress has changed but mental set up is same.

  • S Singh

    Secularists like kushwant are the bigger threat to India than avowed islamic radicals..Muslims will destroy India –like Zia here, their soft corner is for Pakistan–look, how great Pakistan is…they have progressives–not everything is abd….!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    singh jee neighbours cannot be changed.we have to learn how to live with them.but for vedics hate is duty.war and voilence is must for survival.

    [Reply]

  • Peter

    Just as a mule is a cross-breed between a horse and a donkey, ‘indians/pakistanis/bangladeshis/sri lankans’ are cross-breeds between Aryan and Dravidian (austral-african, black, negrito).

    The muslims/christians in the sub-continent are just converts over a period of time. Babar was a half-mongol from Samarkand in present day Uzbekistan.

    For eg. Salman Khurshid is Aryan type while APJ Abdul Kalam is Dravidian admixture (cross-breed).

    The classification is based on skeletal/skull anthropometrics.

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    Not really, Aryans (Aryans were people of a particular language group, it’s not an ethnicity mind you) have blue yes if one listens to German propaganda – most muslims or Afghans or Central Asians will be probably termed shudras or mlecchas under the vedic orthodoxy.

    In fact, even Greek firangis were not that well-regarded in the older times in text.

    [Reply]

  • arjun

    Zia,

    First, to compare a Hindu or a Jain women covering their heads with saree ( ghunghat) or a palloo to a Muslim burqa system is ridiculous. No need to further explain this.

    Second, Khushwant Singh is right that Pakistan has become more radicalized or Talebanised in the last decade than it was before. I am sure Pakistan will find India or the USA to blame for this rather than take responsibility for their failures.

    To defend the Sardar, he has been brutal against Hindus also if you did not notice. It disappointed me at t times but he had a point. As a Hindu my religion teaches me to look inside me and understand my shortcomings first before blaming others. This is the only way you correct your negatives and move forward. In that terms India as a nation is finally beginning to move forward. The results speak for it self. Pakistani society is still living in the past and this is true for their educated class too. You must learn to take criticism and not be foolishly defensive about it. The Pakistani educated class although likes to say some of the right things do not believe in them from their heart. This is why today Pakistan is a ‘basket case’ of a place.

    [Reply]

    Indus Darya Reply:

    Although there is a small though somewhat subdued progressive element within pakistan the problem is that pakistan can only survive on the basis of hating India and has therefore created myths about ` Hindu India’ and `Muslim Pakistan’. The state of pakistan i.e. those who rule the roost in that miscreated country are effectively the mirror image of the RSS and extremist hindu elements. The fact is that in communal conflict(s) in India the vast majority of people who stand against these extremist (Hindu ) elements are the zillions of progressive people of India and include the vast majority of Hindus. This is the qualitative difference between India and Pakistan. And herein lies the strength of India. Pakistan can only survive by pimping for its imperial masters.
    It is hoped that this majority can help to bring a south asia without borders, with support from across the border, peacefully and thus heal the rupture to our common civilization for the benefit of the peoples of the region.

    [Reply]

  • Raj

    Islam has a PR problem, don’t elevate Islam at the expense of other Asian traditions – Islam needs to act on it’s own accord, don’t drag us all in the mud which is quite frankly, your own doing.

    I hate what muslims are doing – comparative analysis not for the better of the collective view, but to co-relate. Like we’re bad – but others are as bad too. Now, wouldn’t we’re good – just as the others be a better and more respectable position?

    I see a very bad future for you muslims, honestly. That kind of attitude will never bring sustainable peace and name for your people. When in mud, don’t drag others with your little comparative analysis. You might as well state how we committed satis under the Rajputs – but likewise, also remember the reforms we undertook. Try a reform in Islam today – just try drawing a respectable depiction of their prophet… see what happens.

    So… don’t equate your b/s with our b/s – ours can be addressed without major problems, yours require division of heads with bodies… I don’t see any similarities.

    [Reply]

    S.Kumar Reply:

    Sensible blog.

    [Reply]

    Dr M Iqbal Reply:

    Sirs,
    In all the above discussion, Muslims and their traditions are being discussed, but nobody is talking about Islam itself. Probabely all of you do not now much about Islam. Fist of all, Islam is not a religion of a cast, creed or a region. It is a way of life (in my opinion complete and final) for all mankind. Quran, the last book reveiled from the creator of all of us, never says that it is a book meant for Muslims or The only and almighty God named as Allah in it, is the lord of Muslims only. The Quran calls whole of the mankind toward their own lord, towards the ultimate success and towards the eternal peace.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Reply:

    ‘Quran, the last book reveiled from the creator of all of us’

    And it is last just because you say it’s last. Don’t try to force your views on others . Islam is way of life for you, Hinduism is a way of life for many others. Much older, by the way and survived all violent invasions from Islamists.

    [Reply]

    Indus Darya Reply:

    Your logic is really infantile. Islam is an ideology for arab/islamic plunder and accumulation. The people who peddle this religion are of a defeated civilization.

    [Reply]

  • Amarmeet Nayar

    It is really sad to read some of the comments here. Instead of debating in a civilized way, people have stooped to a new low. Zia has posted his view point and I agree with some and disagree with some but please guys let’s not forget basic netiquettes. By the way I do applaud Zia’s article as it is easy to agree with mainstream thought, but to disagree it surely takes guts.

    [Reply]

  • Hari

    “Nice civil society”? Then what happened to population of native Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan (and now Kashmir)?

    Yesterday in HT I read a news article that said Indian Muslims in U.P. are threatening national security because a sketch of mohamed was published. How can Muslims be called civilized anywhere? They are living in 7th century.

    [Reply]

    Dr M Iqbal Reply:

    Please try to understand Drawing a sketch of the holy prophet is prohobited and equals to an insult to Him. That is why Muslims are agitated at the incident.
    Imagine if somebody tries to insult any of the religious personalities what would the followers do?
    Is a thing has been done innocently and the offender feels sorry, it is enough. But in most of the events it is done deliberately.
    No body has right to hurt others feelings.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Zia

    Now that you got Khuswant SIngh and Pakistan into the picture let me just correct the scenario for you

    a) Let us once for all stop equating India and Pakistan. Pakistan is one fourth our size and has a population hwich is one sixth. IT is a nation based on hatred and elimination of all religions except Islam of a certain type. — Sunni Wahabbi Islam.

    HIndus have been converted or killed. Christians ditto. Ahemadiyaas are persecuted.

    b) The basic philosophy of Pakistan is anti humanity. Most educated Muslims I know get emabarresed if an Indian Muslim praises this evil entity.

    c) As far as Khuswant Singh goes he sadly equated Indian MUSlims with Pakistan inmany of his writings. Bad mistake for all of us :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    vijay ,is it neccessary to write bullshit.hindus and muslims of brder states migrated to country of their conveniece.amritsar had 60%muslim population while gurdaspur was heavily muslim majority city,where these people have gone.
    after partition there was no anti-hindu riot while india had 600 plus anti-muslim riots.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Zia’s Pakistani liberal society’s double deal…in Militant’s own words–in todays NY Times

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/world/asia/04pakistan.html

    [Reply]

  • Hari

    Whereever I go in India- Dehi, Chennai, Banglarore, Hyderabad…. I see only Muslim women with full niqab/purdah. (It is all black- that is why I can say they are Muslims).

    I have rarerly, if ever, a Hindu woman walking around with full body covered. Not saying that Hindus treat their women any better- we do have female foeticide and dowry deaths etc. But Muslims take the prize for covering their women up like they are some piece of meat and if uncovered they can be attacked by other Muslim men.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    In a country as varied and large as India, it is unwise to generalize lot of things – as India is illiterate, Indians kill for dowry, Indian Muslims are backward etc etc..

    There are tremendous regional variations. For example, Kerala has the highest (and demographically desirable for life sustainment) female to male ratio – something like 1090 girls to 1000 boys. Girl children in Kerala is not only not looked down on, but sometimes preferred (by certain groups like Nairs). There is no female infanticide. Whereas in Haryana, the rattio is terribly bad — something like 890 girls to 1000 boys. there is frampant emale infanticide there.

    South indian Muslims are significantly better /almost in par with others in the region in terms of education and other social metrics..whereas UP and Bihar Muslims are dismally backward.

    The challenge and rightful path is for groups to learn and adapt to better systems , better practices, better lives. Muslims face a huge block in this through Mullah pressures, Umma pressures etc

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    gopi nair backwardness of muslims is nothing to do with mullahs.in central india muslims resisted british rule till begining of 20th century.moreover they were landlord.congress goverment lead by banias pauperized landowner zamindars.thakurs and muslims both.
    hence both these communities became backward and weak.now situation is improving bihar has already improved a lot.

    but brhmnsm aur` gharibi ka chollee daman ka saath.til brhmn bania power is not controlled
    expliotation of other communities will continue.mullahs have nothing to do with this.

    when a temple will hide wealth tuning to 25billions of dollars.how that area can flourish.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    hari we dont kill our women while in womb,nor murder them when infant or burn them if dont bring enough dowry or leave them in vrindavan when old.muslim women wear burqa with her own wish.like sikhs wear turban.
    in pakistan women is far more fearless liberated and happy than in india.i never heard any case of child killing or wife burning in pakistan.
    pakistan has 32%happy people while india has 17%.women has very strong position in their society.

    [Reply]

  • Hari

    Khushwant Singh adores Islam and Pakistan. He should try to live in country (Pakistan) or state (Kashmir) that is Muslim majority and see how they treat a non-Muslim.

    Or at the very least he should be asking what happened to the native populations of native Hindus and Sikhs in those areas. Imagine if we treated Muslims in India they way Muslims treated Hindus in Kashmir- we would be called savages and murderers.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    hari hindus were treated in kashmir very very nicely.they were bundled to jammu by a hindu nazi called jagmohanto communalize kashmir problem and save them from the pain of round the clock curfew.all their property and religious places are intact.

    u people are savage and murderers,on 6th nov 1947 raja hari singh killed 250000 original kashmiris who were his subject.after 1947 u perpetuated 600 anti-muslim riots,then anti-sikh riots then anti-christian riots.aseemanand was expert in christian killing.orrisa episode is not too old.

    [Reply]

  • Anita

    What I found hypocritical from mostly male commentators bashing Zia’s article is that India is the fourth worst place for women to live just below Pakistan and above Somalia. So my dear countrymen, India is officially worse of that Somalia for Women to live in,.

    We have the largest feoticide in the world of female children. We have huge dowry problem. We have rich and educated parents knowlingly mutilating their daughters genitals and pumping them full of hormones to make them look male and destroy their sexuality.

    Are we going to blame all of this on “muslim invaders” and Pakistan – the failed state.

    For God’s sake stop being such ignorant imbeciles and realise that India is not much better when it comes to safety for women. Infact, many Arab countries actually fared much better while we were stuck with countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia at fourth worst place.

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    Typical feminist b/s. Quit being a lame yapper and tell me how surveys can at all represent ground realities. Yes, you foolish woman (ironic, though I wanted this to be good to your assertion of female oppression, hope you appreciate it) – if one asserts scholastic standards, such loud and uncouth headlines won’t even make the grade.

    Really, I suggest females go back to school and work their way – respect needs to be earned, don’t demand it. Not every man or woman needs a elevated form of respect, this also applies to creed and morality – think about it young lady.

    And please do not quote garbage surveys to prove your point. You can have 100 respondents responding with absolutely no particular form of knowledge or affiliation to the issue in question. Sure, there are problems, but mind you, these problems are not as grave as Somalia – have you even been to that place?

    Foolish assertion deserves a strong answer.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Many here have accused Khushwant Singh of loving Islam and Pakistan.

    Nothing could be further from truth

    To understand what I mean, one has to distinguish between the State of Pakistan and Pakistani people. Likewise, one has to differentiate between being tolerant to other people’s beliefs and liking Islam.

    Khushwant Singh will find many individuals in Pakistan with whom he would share almost every aspect of his culture, language, food, music, etc. In fact like most Punjabi’s, he would find that there are more cultural elements common between him and a section of the Pakistan society than is there that divides them. Religious politics aside, the two communities lived harmoniously for several centuries before politics divided them.

    Similarly, he is not an outright hater of Islam/Muslims. He makes an effort to understand it as well as being a liberal he asserts that an individual has a right to practice whatever religion they choose to do.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ravi what is wrong if he likes islam.islam is the base of sikhism.atleast 2 shankaracharyas recently converted to islam aftter comparing holy quran(last testament)and holy vedas(first testament).
    man should be hindu sikh muslim lover not hater.he is not.last year i met a sikh whose brother just returned from pakistan.he was praising the people gujranwalla like anything.they almost showered love and attention on him.

    but hate is duty of brhmnst and brhmnst only.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    last time i looked at, it was muslims killimg of hate all over…could mot fimd a brahmim ….

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    Yes, they shower people with love and affection first, try migrating and living there. Sikhism is more Hindu than Muslim, to be honest, all you need to do is open the Dasam Granth and realise that. Not forgetting, names such as Indrajeet and all that. Har Mandir or, perhaps the name of their 10th Guru – Govind… who’s name is Govind, I ask you..?

    That doesn’t mean they are not separate, they have a unique identify and religion now, but Sikhism is a dharmic religion along with Hinduism/Buddhism and Jainism.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, only an idiot will argue that there are no “nice” people in Pakistan , nor can one deny that pakistani culture is no different from north indian punjabi culture.
    This is different from saying that the POLITY and a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the society harbour an inferiority complex manifested in crude hatred towards Hindu india, AND THIS IS THE SINGLE IMPEDIMENT TO ANY RAPPROACHMENT,also the ARMY BREATHING DOWN THE NECK , AND RECENT ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM doesn’t help.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    hate against india is restricted only among punjabis whose families are holding good post in pak army.for them hate is duty.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    That is very true.

    However, what has that got to do with Kushwant Singh’s attitude towards Pakistani people.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Is it true about “commonality” today?

    Aren’th they taught that their ancestors are arabs..that they do not have anything to do with india..that theya re a different race…..What about the “text book/history rewrite” undertaken by Zia and successive govts?
    So, at one time therer may ahve been commonalities and kindred spirits, is it there today among Punjabi pakistanis

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Aren’th they taught that their ancestors are arabs

    no they proud of their punjabi and pathan ancestory.even ossama could not gt proper hiding place in pakistan.illyas kashmiri was killed in drone attack on tip provided by isi.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Punjabi hindus and pathan buddhists to be precise.

  • tajender

    SHAN&RAVI ,ON 4TH JULY ,THE DAY OF AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE YOU WILL FIND THIS INTERESTING.Iraq War Deaths Exceed Vietnam War Numbers

    Department of Veterans Affairs Reports 73 Thousand U.S. Gulf War Deaths

    By Gary Vey for viewzone

    Editor’s Note: This story was published in the early part of 2010 and received little attention until just recently. It’s very satisfying as a writer to receive emails from readers who are finally realizing what kind of deception has been pulled on the American citizens. I also thank Rense.com for posting the link. For some reason, Rense.com rarely carries stories from viewzone.com, despite our common concerns and views. Anyway, thanks Rense! And thanks to the many readers who help spread the truth from websites like rense.com and viewzone.com — we do it for you because we love this country and despise what it has become of late. Happy July 4th everyone!

    ——————————————————————————–

    More Gulf War Veterans have died than Vietnam Veterans. This probably is news to you. But the truth has been hidden by a technicality. So here is the truth.

    The casualties in the Vietnam War were pretty simple to understand. If a soldier was dead from his combat tour, he was a war casualty. There are 58,195 names recorded on the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, DC.

    Some of these brave men died in the jungles of Vietnam while others died in Medivac units or hospitals in Japan and America. A dead soldier can surrender his life anywhere in his service to his country. It really doesn’t matter where this happens. The location of a soldier’s death in now way colors his sacrifice to his country.

    But something odd has happened with the Iraq War. The government, under the Bush administration, did something dishonest that resulted in a lie that’s persisted since the war began — and continues to this very day. They decided to report the war deaths in Iraq only if the soldier died with his boots on the ground in a combat situation.

    What’s the difference, you might ask?

    The combat in Vietnam was in rural areas, far removed from medical treatment centers. Injured soldiers were treated by a Medic. Most died at the scene of the battle before they could be evacuated. Many died on route or were declared dead at the medical treatment facilities. The situation in Iraq is vastly different.

    Fighting in Iraq is mainly in urban areas. Soldiers who are injured are quickly evacuated with armored personnel carriers or helicopters. It’s a much more efficient system than what was possible in Vietnam, but for those that are seriously injured it means that death is more likely to happen while they are in transit or at the treatment facility.

    Under the new reporting system, deaths that happen en route or post evacuation are not counted as combat deaths. This is why the number seems unusually low — a little over four thousand as of 2009.

    The actual figures have been hidden from the American public just like the returning, flag draped coffins were censored from the press. But the figures are now available and we can only hope that the American people will be outraged when they learn how they have been misled.

    According to The Department of Veterans Affairs, as of May 2007, reports in the Gulf War Veterans Information System reveal these startling numbers:

    Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846
    * Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847
    * Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999

    The stastics for non-lethal injuries are likewise staggering:

    Total “Undiagnosed Illness” (UDX) claims: 14,874
    Total number of disability claims filed: 1,620,906
    * Disability Claims amongst Deployed: 407,911
    * Disability Claims amongst Non-Deployed: 1,212,995

    Percentage of combat troops that filed Disability Claims 36%

    I know you probably will think this is another conspiracy theory — I did when I first heard about this — so please read the original report for yourself. [Source: http://www1.va.gov/rac-gwvi/docs/GWVIS_May2007.pdf Note: Sometimes this link is not active so we have posted the pdf file on viewzone 393 kb.]

    More deaths and mysery to follow…

    More than 1,820 tons of radioactive nuclear waste (i.e. depleted uranium) were exploded in Iraq alone in the form of armor piercing rounds and bunker busters. This represents the worlds worst man made ecological disaster ever. 64 kg of uranium were used in the Hiroshima bomb. The U.S. Iraq Nuclear Holocaust represents far more than fourteen thousand Hiroshima’s.

    The nuclear waste the U.S. has exploded in the Middle East will continue killing for hundreds of years! That’s how long these particles of radioactive dust will continue to blow around, get lodged in someone’s lungs or be ingested. Scientists calculate that there is now enough radioactive material in Iraq to wipe out a third of the world’s current population.

    While we never found any WMD’s (Weapons of Mass Destruction) in Iraq, we sure made up for it by importing our own! Birth defects among Iraqi newborns are up a whopping 600% from before the war. The defects are typical of the kind produced by exposure to radioactive poisons. And these injuries are happening to the civilian population of Iraq — the people we were supposedly “liberating.”

    This writer happened to visit Iraq back in 2001, at the time Saddam Hussein was still in power. The world’s nations were imposing an embargo on all imports in an attempt to punish the nation for invading the neighboring nation of Kuwait. I remember the good people of Iraq who treated me with kindness and hospitality — even while knowing I was an American. Despite the embargo on such vital things as medicine and hospital supplies, the markets were thriving with local produce. Children freely played in the streets and there was laughter. To see what this war has done to Iraq is especially painful and speaks loudly of the immorality that has caused these innocent people to suffer. And now, to see that this same immorality extends to the American people in the form of deception and lies crosses the line.

    I live in a small town in New England. We have known of many casualties from Iraq — too many. Yet the numbers being reported in the media make it seem that this is a rare occurrence. Just over 4,000? How can this be? In short — it’s NOT.

    What will it take to awaken people and make them angry enough to hold our government responsible for these lies? A democracy is only good if its people are well informed. How else can we make decisions abou what’s best for us? If we are fed s*** and kept in the dark we truly are a nation of mushrooms.

    Before I end this I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the vets who put their country and its people before themselves. We are proud of you and believe that you put your lives on the line for something a little better than what we are currently experiencing with our government. Thanks to you we’re still a democracy. So it’s up to us, the people you fought for, to make your effort worthwhile.

    What do you think about this? Do you care?

    ——————————————————————————–

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Zia and Ravi

    Khushwant Singh on Pakistan is totally hollow and full of sentiumental, teary eyed tosh. He is promoting his novel “train to Pakistan,” every time he waqnts us to love his Pakistan of Gen Zia.

    Just befor the Mumbai terror attacks Khuswant Singh wrote a teary sentimental article praising the one and only smiling Cobra now in jannat, Gen Zia saying that the general had gifted him (singh) six boltles of scotch. In those licence raj times drinking Scotch by Indians was as good as dancing with princess Diana.

    Khushwant Singh is overated and hollow. Now he should migrate back to Gujranwala in his beloved secular Pak-shit-stan :D :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Similarly the Devas (gods)n prayed to Paramasivan to Destroy the ‘Asuras’(Non-Brahmin Dravidians) . Kandan was born to Paramasivas\n for that purpose . Nothing is known about the birth and parentage of Sita, the wife of Rama. Similarly nothing is known about the birth and parentage of Valli. The wife of Kandan.

    The birth of Rama is an absurdity. He was born to the Brahmins who performed ‘Yaga’ . The birth of Kandan is still worse. When the semon of Paramasivan fell down, the earth was not able to bear it. So it was directed towards sea, Kandan was born there. I am not telling this of my own accord. It is Viswamitra who said all these. In the Ramayana as the Rakshasas were being killed more and more Rakshasas are said to have been born newly. Similarly it is stated in the Kandapurana that Asuras were beheaded. The dead Asuras are said to have appeared with new lives. Like these you find many similarities between Ramayana and Kandapurana. Looking into the behaviour of the devoteese of saivism as well as Vaishnavism, we find them to be of the same type, one coping the other .

    In Saivism, we find a devotee called Tiruneelakandar, who was a potter. Similarly in Vaishnavism we find a devotee called Gorakummbar. He was also a potter. The stories of the both the devotee are alike. Both of them were not in terms with wives. They did not oven speak to their wives. It is Vishnu the god who brought in good terms between Gorakumbar and his wife. It is Paramasivan who brought in good terms between Tiruneelakandar and his wife.

    Even as Ramayana is considered to be an epic by Hindu Vaishnavites , the Hindu saivites consider Periyapurnam as their epic. One cannot easily state that there is anything to be learnt by the people, Indiscipline, prostitution and things devoid of self respect abonnd, in these epics.

    If we are to accept them as divine literature and talk in praise of these epics and god and religion, we will only be exhibiting our uncivilized barbarous status in our life.

    One devotee willingly offers his wife to Brahmin. One devotee uses his elbow to grind the sandal wood. One devotee offers the hairs of his daughter to temple, What is the use of reading such things? It may justify the offering of anything and everything to the highest caste Brahmins. These stories serve the purpose of creating disharmony, You find the story of an untouchable called Nandanar in Saivism. Similarly you find the story of an untouchable called Sokkamela in Vaishnavism . their stories are also similar. They were admitted into the temple and given salvation by their respective gods

    Vaishnavism permits even stealing and cheating in the name of god . Tirumangai Alwar’s story vouchsafes it. Similarly the story of Manickavasagar in Saivism approves stealing and cheating in the name of god. Both of them were given salvation by their respective god, for their religious service by stealing and cheating. The Vaishnavite gods and Saivite gods compete with one another absurdities, foolishness, and barbarity. They prescribed tests to their devotees thinking themselves to be very intelligent. A false Impression was created to make offerings ungrudgingly to the so called holy Brahmins. One must be a fool to believe that these books are helpful to the Hindu society. Similarly if the Tamil scholars and enthusiasts champion the cause of these books and aspire to spread them, I would only say that they are doing great disservice to the society of Tamil. From the beginning to the end we do not find anything decent or justifiable in the Ramayana. Every action of Rama is atrocious. How to worship him as god? Could anyone boldly say as to how Ramayana is useful to the majority of the people?

    If it is considered as an epic or literature . should there be no rules to govern it for giving such a status? Is there no limit for imagination? Would any one agree to part away with his wife. Just because a poet has excelled in his imagination? How could anyone emulate the example set by the devotees. Should not such men be beaten black and blue? The Tamil scholars and pundits do not understand this simple matter . How could they command the respect of the people? The saivite Tamil Pundits insist on safeguarding Periyapuram. They say that it contains historical and geographical truths and also many astronomical fact.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ tajendar

    How come you are still alive?

    I thought RAW had despatched you to a mental asylum in in SWAT valley for retraining? :D

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    vijay bhai,where is brother shenoy.ask him also visit here.pyare paajee balwinder is also not seen these days.dr mishra is missed as well,

    daba ke chal diye qabr mein na dua na salam

    dum bhar mein kya ho gaya zamane ko.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    tumne bulaya, aur hum chale aaye

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    thanks.mishrajee.

    balwinder jee tuade aane da bhi shukriya.allah tudee khang door kare.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    CALLING DR IQBAL-
    It is always a pleasure to see new faces here, welcome Dr Iqbal.
    And after that welcome please allow me to differ with you, although I will say right at the beginning that your heart is in the right place-
    1. You say that drawing the prophet’s face hurts your community’s feelings. That may be true, but I would have liked it better if you had addressed the hotheads to say that even if someone has done it (or like that mad pastor whoburned the quran) maybe the MOST SENSIBLE thing is not to riot or lose lives over it

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    a very big request to tajender- please do not respond, I know all your answers, trying to get others responses. Shukriya

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    dr saheb,

    i will awnser at the end.after this debate is concluded.by tommorow evening.O.K.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    DR IQBAL CONTD-

    2. I love your beautiful words- ‘ Quran says “Whoever slays a single human being without a reason, as if kills whole humanity ‘

    But you know docsaheb, the world looks at the evil unleashed by the Islamic terrorists worldwide and in whole of Pakistan now and says- not concerned with what you say, more concerned by what you DO !!

    And we all know that in addition to these lovely words there are some very angry verses which are followed blindly by the terrorists in their attempt to kill the ‘kaffir’

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    DR IQBAL CONTD-

    Your words- ‘ Islam- It is a way of life (in my opinion complete and final) for all mankind. ‘

    Sir, you rightly say- in my opinion. But behind that sentence is brutal history of a few hundred years where an alien way of life was imposed on others with much bloodshed.
    —————
    your feed back appreciated. Dr Mishra, Yorkshire

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    a very big request to tajender- please do not respond this one time, I know all your answers, trying to get others responses. Shukriya

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    doc saheb, nice stuff as always.
    @bitter truth- the discrimination unleashed by the caste system is there and finds no apologists in India.

    Buy your wishing away the brutality of Islamic invasions of India is breathtaking- from Ghazni to Ghori to Taimur to Aurangzeb- India got raped. I do not know if you are Indian muslim or Pakistani- there is a good chance that some ancestor of yours got converted at the point of a sword, or converted because it was nice to be on the same side of ruthless muslim kings or their soldiers, to get protection

    bitter truth- your name is apt, you have chosen to ignore it

    [Reply]

    bitter truth Reply:

    If so much brutality by muslim rulers of India, then how your ancestors were spared for you to remain as Balwinder? Keep on reading Sangh parivar version of history and keep dreaming of triumph of discriminatory hindu (brahmanical) system in India, which is never going to happen as there is no system in so called hindu dharma which can be sold to the people of the world in this period of time.

    bitter truth Reply:

    Truth is always bitter for the people who are hell bent on rejecting it.

    The discrimination based on birth in hindu religion is still going on. Only two days back its manifestation was in the form of upper caste hindus in Tamil Nady denying entry to a temple and drawing of water by a dalit from a hand pump located in upper caste locality.

    Ho to make account of the effect of these descriminations over four millenia on the majority of Indians. Is it possible by ignoring the hindu scriptures which contain these injunctions? Are brahmins ready to dump these descriminatory scriptures? Why do not you answer these questions.

    tajender Reply:

    The hindus and sikhs survived

    balwinder jee brhmns and rajputs were partners in power.one ur guru was killed by khatri prome minister of mughuls for personal reasons.remaining 2 were killed while moghul supermacy(not muslim).
    banda bairagee killed thousands of innocents before he was caught and killed by moghul
    army.all ur gurus had local muslim support.it was not religious war as projected by british and hindutva media.they rewrote history to divide india.
    personal physician of ranjit singh was MUSLIM.

    tajender Reply:

    balwinder absolutely rubbish and wrong.muslims are the builders of india.ghazni aurangzeb all serve india in best possible way.what u wrote is nothing but bullshit.

    bitter truth Reply:

    Its neither only few hundred years nor it is brutal. Islamic period is the history of mankind’s civilizational, cultural and scientific development and progress in all walks of life over a millenia.

    What you have said is true for brahmanism (present day hindutva). Brahmins and baniyas enslaved the local indian populace and sanctioned it through the religion with varna ashram theory. Do you know that majority of indians(present day SCs, STs, BCs and OBCs were kept away from knowledge for 4000 years by brahmins, the knowledge which is the very essence of civilizational and cultural development of human race.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    @ BITTER TRUTH- good question my friend- “”"If so much brutality by muslim rulers of India, then how your ancestors were spared for you to remain as Balwinder”"”

    Given another 500 years and every Balwinder would have become Badruddin and every Sharma would have become Sirajuddin. Your Mughal emperors killed 3 out of our 10 sikh gurus- one was killed by torture of burning over 3 days.

    The hindus and sikhs survived somehow and just how great a race they are can be testified to by the fact that here in the UK and elsewhere in USA they are the MOST EDUCATIONALLY advanced minority and often the richest, out performing the local whites

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    my comments are not written in anger. In UK, for the last 20 years they compile high scchool GCSE RESULTS by race and religion and region

    -Indians and chinese (74%) outperform whites- (64%)
    - at the bottom of the pile are Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslims and Afro-caribean blacks (45%)

    Pl chek on net, or ask me I will send numerous links. many Muslims sadly got left behind with their religious supremacist, conversion and aggressive mentality.

    heard of Sir Syed Ahmed- back in 1850 he lamented these cursed tendencies amongst muslims which left them the most backward community in India

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    bitter truth, I consider u friend and brother, hence speak openly

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    at the bottom of the pile are Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslims and Afro-caribean blacks (45%)

    there is one difference,u are cream of indian society while they are filth of their society.muslims from high caste are doing as good or better as indians.

    britishers gave education to everybody irrespective of cast and creed which stopped when brhmnst took over.primary education is purposely destroyed and higher or better education
    is out of reach of 90%indian.
    hence brhmnst are succesfully unfolding their agenda of keeping india ignorant and hungry.

  • Aaloke

    @ BITTER TRUTH – Do you really want to know answer to Why all Non Muslims were not converted during extremely brutal Muslim rule in India? If you are really serious my friend, then please read this very comprehensive , beautifully written Book with all documentary proofs by an INDIAN MUSLIM .The book name is ” Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery (by MA Khan)”
    I am giving link below, you can download the book for $6.
    http://www.islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/Islamic-Jihad-Legacy-of-Forced-Conversion-Imperialism-Slavery.htm

    It is my request to all , please do read this book. All source material for this book is very reputed Islamic Sources only.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    aaloke, truth is this that bengal and punjab became muslim majority during british rule.muslim rulers never encouraged conversion as low caste hindus were best subjects.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Balwinder

    My observation is for the good of the Muslim community. THEY HAVE LET THEIR MINDS BE HIJACKED SOME BIGOTS IN SAUDIA AND THIER CLONES. AND LET THEIR KNOWLEDGE BE RESTRICTED BY THE LIMITATIONS OF THE KORAN.

    let us face the brutal truth once a while. That Muslims have let thier minds get hijacked and unless the educated Muslims stand up and say “enough is enough’ they will keep being at the bottom of social and educational indicators in all countries of the world.

    They should change and that will happen when somebody says that it is not necessary to say we have to follow the koran. If we find it wrong we will not follow it ! :D

    a) If a person can convert to become a Muslim why should Muslim societies impose a death penalty on someone who wants to leave ISlam and become a Christian, Hindu, Sikh or an athiest???? Why ? WHY !! WHY ??:D :D ??

    b) If the Koran is wrong on multiple marriages for men, why don’t Muslim women stand up and say we reject it in the contxt of today ?

    c) Muslim societies always tend to be violent as the top 5% men keep four or more wives leading to at least 20% men being “sexual partner” denied. Why does not someone shout out against this???
    Ultimately these men need to convert women from other religions leading to a confrontation.

    Why the silence and hypocrisy????

    Even Osama living in his den with four wives meant that potentially three men had no choice but to become suicide bombers.

    Muslims as people are ultimately human beings like you and me. Somewhere down the line an inferiority complex is imposed upon them where they are made to feel that they children of Arabs and they should worship them. The use of petro dollars thru madrassas for furthering this goal has only resulted in many getting a warped view where they feel that their rights are being snatched.

    Maybe the educated ones– like Zia– should talk about total reform and assimilation.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    let us face the brutal truth once a while. That Muslims have let thier minds get hijacked and unless the educated Muslims stand up and say “enough is enough’ they will keep being at the bottom of social and educational indicators in all countries of the world

    bullshit,in india except high caste ,enire population is at lowest level of education.why u talk of saudia,there are 2 universities which comes in first 200 india has none.

    GIVE ME NAME OF 2 INDIAN TOP INTELLECTUAL.

    ) If a person can convert to become a Muslim why should Muslim societies impose a death penalty on someone who wants to leave ISlam and become a Christian, Hindu, Sikh or an athiest???? Why ? WHY !! WHY

    THIS WAS IN BEGINING.now in pakistan thousands of muslims have converted to christianity.
    many indian states have banned conversion not pakista.so it is lie and propaganda.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ) If the Koran is wrong on multiple marriages for men, why don’t Muslim women stand up and say we reject it in the contxt of today

    vijay islam has allowed 4 marriages with strict condition.in buhddhaism and hinduism u can have 100.
    adultry is punishable by death for both men and women.while in hinduism and even christianity
    chastity is restricted to women only.
    hindu india is only country of world where women are less than men because of continous killng and torture.no. of women in all muslim countries are more than men.MORE ISLAM IS ONLY RELIGION WHICH PROVIDES WOMEN WITH RIGHT TO OWN PROPETY,RIGHT TO DIVORCE AND RIGHT TO KEEP HER NAME.

    IN INDIA BIGAMY IS MORE RAMPANT AMONG HINDUS AS COMPARE TO MUSLIMS.

    Muslim societies always tend to be violent as the top 5% men keep four or more wives leading to at least 20% men being “sexual partner

    this is only true for saudi rulers.partners are now scare in india.all your top temple have big brothels in their vicinity.INDIA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY WHERE WOMEN ARE LESS THAN MEN
    BECAUSE OF CONTINOUS KILLING AND TORTURE.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    VIJAY GO TO U TUBE AND WATCH,

    Osama Bin Laden Death Pictures Leaked! Fake

    [Reply]

  • Aaloke

    @ Vijay,
    Please read ” Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery (by MA Khan)”. I have mentioned it in my earlier reply.
    If someone calls himself a Muslim, knowing fully well KORAN and Islamic History, then whatever problems you are relating with people following Islam are natural corollaries. They can not dissociate themselves from a mindset which looks ridiculous to us , but to Muslims it looks most natural. When you make your reference as Mohammed and Koran and consider them to be ultimate in truth, then what follows is what has happened in last 1400 yrs and it is still happening.Mindset of Zia, Bitter Truth and one another famous blogger here is totally understandable with above reference.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    Even Osama living in his den with four wives meant that potentially three men had no choice but to become suicide bombers

    ossama was not living with his 4 wives.yemeni woman was doctor.one young lady which media claim to be his wife is not brought before media.99%ossama was not killed that night.he died 8 years before.why they are not videos of operation.eyewitness say that 29 seals died when helicopter crashed.this was a game,to hide the shame of afghan defeat and withdrawal without achieving any important goal.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why they are not videos of operation

    why they are showing the video of operation.sorry.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why they are not showing the video of operation.sorry.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    DR SAHEB AND BALWINDER JEE,

    see this on video,

    OBAMA the Muslim – HIS OWN WORDS

    ask state department why ossama was not charge sheeted for 9/11 attack.if he was culprit.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @bitter truth, your question ‘ Is it possible by ignoring the hindu scriptures which contain these injunctions? Are brahmins ready to dump these descriminatory scriptures? Why do not you answer these questions. ‘

    Easy to answer, the hindu scriptures that you quote like Manusmriti were written thousands of years ago. Who cares for it today- certainly while growing up in India I never came across it. Today we have had at least 3 muslim presidents, and we have scores of backward castes like Mayawati as chief ministers.

    Now would you please care to answer the valid points raised above- why is it that fromn the time of Sir Syed Ahmed 1860 to today, even here in UK, muslim undereducation and propensity to crime is a major concern

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    dr saheb reason of muslim educational backward are ,

    1.education is very expensive.
    2.with b or c class education ,job is not guaranteed.
    3.this is nothing to do with muslims or islam.percentage of literacy in most of the muslim countries is 90%plus.
    4when.british took power from moghuls literacy in india was 93%.when they left it was 7or 8%.during muslim rule education was free.vijay laxmi pundit has written meri hindu maid ko 1000 sher yaad the.
    5.moreover 95%of muslims are convert they were suppressed and humiliated for thousands of years.it will take sometime for them to come at par.division of india was curse for indian muslims,but was gift for people of bangladesh.bangladesh ladies are ahead of west bengal girls in field of education.in pakistan also situation is improving very fast in field of education.
    6.india has the largest pool of illetrate people and standard of education is very very low.
    7.regarding crimes,muslims are as per their percentage.mostly they are involve in petty crimes.
    but people at top are sucking billions and billions.
    8.the wealth of travancore raja could change the face of kerala.he was very notorious king who did nothing for his people except loading them with heavy taxes.they have to go to malaysia,
    singapore brunei dubai saudia ,to make their living.

    what muslims wants is free cheap education and employment not to be indian president in hindu india.DR ZAKIR HUSSAIN ko president hono ke liye ek pundit se rajabhishek karwana pada.usne pairon ke thumb se unhe tilak lagaya.because he was malechche.

    conditions of muslims in india cannot improve without help and active support of high caste hindus.

    that is why we need the people like u who give call to improve situation of downtrodden.
    MAOISTS ARE NOT FIGHTING FOR DEVELOPMENT,THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR RIGHT ON LAND.
    bhagwat geeta is modern version of manusmr.iti.ghandhi was marketing this all his life.that is why zoinists put him at veryhigh . position

    .

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Frucking Muslims want to have the cake and eat it too..It is always somebody’s fault.. Something happened in 1970s in teh west, so they change processes..hen they complain that jehadism is created by those changes..How come a Hindu boy, a Sikh boy, or for that matter any non-Muslim boy does not blow up…

    An op ed article from today’s NY Times.

    ..http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/opinion/07malik.html

    also today’s Washington Post reported that (in)famous AQ Khan has stated that three high ranking PAk generals received $3MM from North Korea for sharing atomic secrets..Fun begins in Pakland! We have not seen anything

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Binoy,
    I read the article and was not surprised. Muslims whether educated and uneducated believe in following-
    1. Islam is supreme religion.
    2. Everyone should assimilate as per Islam in Islamic countries.
    3. Muslims should get special treatment in non-muslim countries.
    4. It is always non-muslims who are at fault.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ..How come a Hindu boy, a Sikh boy, or for that matter any non-Muslim boy does not blow up

    hegde tamil tigers were not muslims.vietcongs were doing same during vietnam war.WHEN THERE WAS NO AMERICA,THERE WAS NO SUICIDE BOMBING.

    regarding statement of AQ KHAN,pakistan also got this technology from blackmarket.isreal too got this from there.
    sikh boys were also doing this during khalistan movement.
    high caste hindus burnt others during riots and enjoy.americans and their media are biggest liars.collin powell spoke lie in UNO about iraqi nigeria deal on uranium.he knew he was lying.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    the link –

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/opinion/07malik.html

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    hegde,most of the courier firms are owned by zoinists.those who deliver packets,dont know,what is inside.there is hardly any proof that ,these boys ever knew what was inside.moreover presence of netanyahu in viccinity of bus blasts came in papers.no afghan has ever hurled a stone at england,why they have send their armies to kill innocent people of afghanistan .

    HEGDE U LUV AMERICA.ASK FROM FBI,WHY THEY DID NOT CHARGESHEETED OSSAMA FOR 9/11.u can go to their web site and check this fact.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    gopi thomas,

    when keralites were poorest among indians ur king was hiding wealth tuning to around 1.5trillion dollars,
    नई दिल्ली।। केरल के मशहूर श्री पद्मनाभस्वामी मंदिर में एक लाख करोड़ नहीं बल्कि 5 लाख करोड़ रुपये कीमत का खजाना होने का दावा किया गया है। इस बीच छठे तहखाने को खोलने पर फैसला शुक्रवार को किया जाएगा। कहा जा रहा है कि मंदिर के छठे तहखाने को खोलने से पहले आवश्यक पूजा-पाठ की जरूरत है।

    चर्चा के मुताबिक, अब तक नहीं खुले इस आखिरी तहखाने से लंबी सुरंग निकली है, जिसका एक सिरा वहां के राजा के महल और दूसरा समुद्र तक जाता है। केरल के पूर्व मुख्य सचिव सीपी नायर ने गुरुवार को दावा किया कि इस मंदिर से मिलने वाले खजाने से यह मंदिर दुनिया का सबसे धनाढ्य मंदिर बन गया है।

    मंदिर में मिले खजाने की सूची बनाने और व्यवस्थित तरीके से इसका आकलन करने के लिए सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने एक 7 सदस्यीय पैनल का गठन किया है जिसकी देखरेख में खजाने को निकालने का काम चल रहा है। अदालत का आदेश है कि इस पूरे खजाने की विडियोग्रफी की जाएगी और पैनल, मंदिर के ट्रस्टी की देखरेख में ही इसे बाहर निकाला जाएगा। मंदिर के नीचे 20 फुट गहरी गुफा में छह तहखाने हैं जो करीब 150 साल बाद खोले गए हैं। आखिरी तहखाने को खोलने पर फैसला शुक्रवार को

    ANY COMMENT.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    RAVI BHAI,BALWINDERJEE ,AND DOCTOR SB,Text of Gauri Advani’s application

    Following is the text of the application filed before the Liberhan Commission of Inquiry, on behalf of Gauri Advani, for becoming a witness to bring out the truth of the Babri Masjid demolition before the Commission.
    According to his daughter-in-law, LK Advani:
    » conspired with Vinay Katyar to demolish the Babri Mosque;
    » is a Sikh; he does not believe in Hinduism
    » got idols of Hindu gods and goddesses melted and used to make his household cutlery.
    » said that withoud playing the religious card BJP cannot come to power;
    » faked a false gotra before embarking on his rath yatra that left behind a trail of blood and destruction.

    Most respectfully showeth:
    1. That the applicant is a Hindu by religion.
    2. That the applicant got married on 12.10.1991 to Jayant Advani, son of LK Advani, the present home minister of India.
    3. That the applicant is currently pursuing her profession in law and is a practising solicitor in London.
    4. That the applicant has read in the newspapers that LK Advani, the current home minister of India was summoned and he had made a statement before this Hon’ble Commission. LK Advani has expressed his anguish at the demolition of Babri mosque and has denied any culpability or involvement in the demolition of Babri mosque.
    5. That the applicant submits that the statement made by LK Advani before this Hon’ble Commission is nothing but a bundle of lies based upon concocted and false facts. The applicant has the relevant and material information which would help this Hon’ble Commission to elicit the truth and unravel the controversy shrouding the demolition of Babri mosque.
    6. That the applicant got married in October 1991 became witness to the religious politics being played/advocated by Advani.
    7. That even prior to the marriage, the applicant had known LK Advani and his family. Right from November 1989 till her wedding in October 1991, the applicant had worked as Special Assistant with LK Advani and was looking after the New Delhi constituency from where LK Advani had contested and won the election. The applicant even used to go to the Parliament Secretariat alongwith Kamla Advani to help LK Advani in his parliamentary work. The applicant, at that time, had deep faith in the ideology which LK Advani used to propagate and bonafidely believed whatever Mr Advani used to tell her, as gospel truth.
    8. That soon after the marriage, the applicant came to know that LK Advani and his wife Kamla Advani and other family members do not follow the rites, rituals and ceremonies attached with Hinduism and are basically followers of the Sikh religion. Despite being a follower of the Sikh religion, LK Advani was using Hinduism to mobilize the Hindu vote bank. Hinduism was used to play with the sentiments of general Hindu masses in order to garner support and the vote of the Hindu masses to enable the BJP to come to power at the Centre.
    9. That LK Advani, in the privacy of home had confided to the applicant on the occasion of Deepavali in 1991 that though he has no faith in Hinduism, but to maintain and appease the religious constituency of his Party, he had to keep this charade. He in fact, further informed the applicant that he has no ‘‘Gotra’’, but at the time of starting his rath yatra from Somnath in 1990, he had coined the Bhardwaj Brahmin Gotra to avoid embarrassment as the Pujaris in various temples en route to Ayodhya would have asked about his ‘‘Gotra’’ and Hindu connection.
    LK Advani told the applicant that this information about the Bhardwaj Gotra should remain secret and no one outside the family should come to know.
    10. That the fact that LK Advani had misled the general Hindu public by playing a fraud upon them by claiming to belong to Bhardwaj Gotra, came to the knowledge of the applicant only on Deepavali in 1991 though the applicant had also joined LK Advani for his rath yatra. Advani lied and misled the Hindu masses and the nation about his religious association in order to develop and nurture the vote bank of Hindus in favour of his Party.
    11. That on or around 28 November 1991, an application was moved in the Hon’ble Supreme Court seeking permission to carry out symbolic kar seva in Ayodhya. Anticipating favourable orders from the Hon’ble Supreme Court, LK Advani decided to start another rath yatra from Varanasi in eastern UP to mobilize kar sevaks for the kar seva. The applicant and Kamla Advani had accompanied LK Advani to Lucknow on 30 November 1992 morning when all of them left for Varanasi by North East Express from Delhi.
    12. That the applicant submits that LK Advani started his rath yatra on 1 December 1992 from Varanasi. Before the start of the Rath Yatra, Vinay Katiyar came to meet LK Advani. The applicant was also present in this meeting. It was in this meeting, LK Advani and Vinay Katiyar in the presence of the applicant, conspired to demolish the Babri mosque and discussed the details and finer aspects involved in the action plan to demolish the Babri mosque. LK Advani told Vinay Katiyar that the ultimate aim of the rath yatra, which he had been undertaking right from 1990 and the build up to kar seva by mobilizing the Ram Bhakt Brick movement, is not only to do kar seva and appease Hindu sentiments but also to garner and muster votes and come to power at the Centre. LK Advani categorically linked religion, exploitation of Hindu sentiments and the opportunity to do the kar seva with the real aim of benefiting BJP politically by mustering the Hindu vote bank. He also discussed that in order to create a strong Hindu vote bank, which would vote for BJP, the time has come to encash the Hindu sentiments by carrying out the demolition of the Babri mosque. LK Advani told Vinay Katiyar that the movement to build a Ram Temple at Babri mosque had to be taken to its logical end, ie coming to power at the Centre and that would not be possible without demolishing the Babri mosque as that will unite the Hindu vote bank in favour of the BJP.
    13. While leaving to start the rath yatra, LK Advani told Vinay Katiyar that the right opportunity has come and since a large number of kar sevaks would be congregating in Ayodhya for kar seva, demolition can easily be done. The applicant remembers that LK Advani said ‘‘Iska kaam kar do,’’ then again said ‘‘Kya Babri Masjid ka kalank nahin mit sakta’’. Vinay Katiyar looked at the applicant and then said to LK Advani that ‘Ham to aapke aadesh ka intzar kar rahen hain, aur agar aap bole to masjid ka namo-nishaan mita de.’ LK Advani at that time smiled and then said ‘To intzar kis baat ka, kaam kar do, gulaami ke nishaan kab tak rahenge. Masjid ko dhawasth kar ke dikhao – sahi samay aa gaya hai.’
    After this, LK Advani left the meeting to start the rath yatra. The applicant and Kamla Advani came back to Delhi.
    14. That the applicant was not surprised at this outpouring of LK Advani. Even at home, LK Advani and other family members used to say that the kar seva in Ayodhya would not remain restricted to ‘‘Bhajan or Kirtan’’ and we are not going to Ayodhya to only sing Bhajans. It was the common refrain during discussions at home that BJP can only come to power by playing the religion card. The Hindu vote bank has to be created and encashed for BJP to form the government at the Centre. LK Advani used to comment at home that the only possible way to achieve the above objective was by hoodwinking the Hindu masses and using Hindu sentiments to demolish the symbols of slavery and past Muslim domination.
    15. That after the demolition of Babri mosque, on his return home, when the applicant asked as to what had happened, LK Advani exulted ‘‘Jo karne gaye the, woh kar aye’’ and he expressed his happiness over the demolition.
    The applicant submits that LK Advani and Vinay Katiyar conspired together and are fully responsible for the demolition of the Babri mosque as it was they who not only instigated the Hindu masses to not restrict the symbolic kar seva to Bhajan and Kirtan but to demolish the Babri mosque. The said demolition was carried out with a view to capture power at the Centre for the BJP.
    16. That right after Somnath Yatra in 1990, during and after the demolition of the Babri mosque, LK Advani got various silver gifts in the form of Hindu Gods and Goddesses, swords and bricks from Hindu individuals, associations and temples. Since LK Advani and his family members do not follow Hinduism, all these silver items/gifts were melted in Bombay (with the help of Sarla Advani who is sister of Kamla Advani and lives in Bombay) to make silver utensils and cutlery items. LK Advani used to claim at home that he does not believe in Hindu Gods and Goddesses and keeping them at home serves no useful purpose. LK Advani therefore, decided to melt these gift items to use the silver to make the utensils and cutlery items. In fact, on many occasions, the applicant had with a heavy heart helped Kamla Advani in packing all these silver gift items associated with the Hindu religion in bags which Sarla Advani used to carry to Bombay by a train. She always used to travel by train because the baggage is not checked as it is done in the air journey. These silver utensils and cutlery items are being used in the house of LK Advani.
    17. That a big fraud has been perpetrated on this great Nation, Hindu masses and on this Hon’ble Commission by LK Advani. LK Advani and his family do not follow Hinduism and they did not permit the applicant to do Puja at home. In fact, in the privacy of LK Advani’s home, Hinduism is ridiculed, scoffed and made fun of whereas in public LK Advani claims himself to be the guardian and symbol of Hinduism, as he did in the guise of Lord Rama on top of the Ram Rath. All these claims are false, bogus and fabricated to advance his political career by playing a fraud on the sentiments of Hindu masses and to hoodwink them into forming a vote bank which has been used by his party to come to power at the Centre.
    18. That the applicant shall make a detailed statement on this before this Hon’ble Commission, bringing out many other aspects not mentioned above as it is not possible to mention or enumerate all of them in writing. The applicant submits herself for examination by this Hon’ble Commission. In the facts and circumstances explained above, it is respectfully prayed that this Hon’ble Commission be pleased,
    a. to summon the applicant to make her statement on oath and disclose the true and correct facts before this Hon’ble Commission to elicit the truth,
    b. pass such order or further orders as this Hon’ble Commission may deem fit and proper in the facts and circumstances of the case.

    Signed
    (Mrs Gauri Advani)
    C-1/27, Pandara Park, New Delhi

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    where did you get this submission

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i heard about this long ago but got full text in a magzine called MILLIGAZETTE today.she has given her address.pandara park is well known place of new delhi.there is something more especially for u and ravi.

    Full 27 years have elapsed since genocide of Sikhs took place in November 1984. Despite the constitution of innumerable high-power committees, police investigation teams and commissions these are few small fries who have been booked; the real culprits are still eluding the call of justice. The Nanavati Commission which was constituted in 2002 has recently been given another extension till December 2004. The reality is that in last 20 years though the country has been ruled by every shade of political opinion there has been no political will to prosecute the culprits.

    It is generally believed that the Congress cadres were behind this genocide. This may be true but there were other forces too which actively participated in this massacre and whose role has never been investigated. Those who were witness to the genocide of 1984 were stunned by the swiftness and military precision of the killer marauding gangs (later on witnessed during the Babri mosque demolition, burning alive of Dr. Graham Steins with his two sons and recent pogrom of the Muslims in Gujarat) who went on a burning spree of the innocent Sikhs. This was beyond the capacity of the Congress thugs.

    Recently, a crucial document has surfaced which may throw some light on the unhidden aspects of the genocide. It was authored and circulated by a luminary and veteran of the RSS, Nana Deshmukh on November 8, 1984. Interestingly, this document was published in the Hindi Weekly Pratipaksh edited by George Fernandes (Defence Minister of India 1999-2004, and presently a great pal of the RSS) in its edition of November 25, 1984 titled ‘Indira Congress-RSS collusion’ with the following editorial comment:

    “The author of the following document is known as an ideologue and policy formulator of the RSS. After the killing of Prime Minister (Indira Gandhi) he distributed this document among prominent politicians. It has a historical significance that is why we have decided to publish it, violating policy of our Weekly. This document highlights the new affinities developing between the Indira Congress and the RSS. We produce here the Hindi translation of the document.”

    This document may help in unmasking the whole lot of criminals involved in the massacre of innocent Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing of Indira Gandhi. This document may also throw light on where the cadres came from, who meticulously organized the killing of Sikhs. Nana Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. According to him the massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger among Hindus of India.

    This document also shows the true degenerated and fascist attitude of the RSS towards all the minorities of India. The RSS has been arguing that they are against Muslims and Christians because they are the followers of foreign religions. Here we find them justifying the butchering of Sikhs who according to their own categorization happened to be the followers of an indigenous religion.

    The RSS often poses as a firm believer in Hindu-Sikh unity. But in this document we will hear from the horse’s mouth that the RSS like the then Congress leadership, believed that the massacre of the innocent Sikhs was justified. Nana Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. His defence of the carnage can be summed up as in the following.

    The massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger among Hindus of India.

    Deshmukh did not distinguish the action of the two security personnel of Mrs. Indira Gandhi, who happened to be Sikhs, from that of the whole Sikh community. From his document it emerges that the killers of Indira Gandhi were working under some kind of mandate of their community. Hence attacks on Sikhs were justified.

    Sikhs themselves invited these attacks, thus advancing the Congress theory of justifying the massacre of the Sikhs.

    He glorified the ‘Operation Blue Star’ and described any opposition to it as anti-national. When Sikhs were being killed in thousands he was warning the country of Sikh extremism, thus offering ideological defense of those killings.

    It was Sikh community as a whole which was responsible for violence in Punjab.

    Sikhs should have done nothing in self-defence but showed patience and tolerance against the killer mobs.

    These were Sikh intellectuals and not killer mobs which were responsible for the massacre. They had turned Sikhs into a militant community, cutting them off from their Hindu roots, thus inviting attacks from the nationalist Indians. Interestingly, Deshmukh would not mind having militant Hindus. Moreover, he treated all Sikhs as part of the same gang and defended attacks on them as a reaction of the nationalist Hindus.

    He described Indira Gandhi as the only leader who could keep the country united and on the killing of such a great leader such killings could not be avoided.

    Rajiv Gandhi who succeeded Mrs. Gandhi as the Prime Minister of India and justified the nation- wide killings of Sikhs by saying, “When a huge tree falls there are always tremors felt”, was lauded and blessed by Nana Deshmukh at the end of the document.

    Shockingly, the massacre of Sikhs was being equated with the attacks on the RSS cadres after the killing of Gandhiji and we find Deshmukh advising Sikhs to suffer silently. Everybody knows that the killing of Gandhiji was inspired by the RSS and the Hindutva Ideology whereas the common innocent Sikhs had nothing to do with the murder of Mrs. Indira Gandhi.

    There was not a single sentence in the Deshmukh document demanding, from the then Congress Government at the Centre, remedial measures for controlling the violence against the minority community. Mind this, that Deshmukh circulated this document on November 8, 1984, and from October 31 to this date Sikhs were left alone to face the killing gangs. In fact November 5-10 was the period when the maximum killings of Sikhs took place. Deshmukh was just not bothered about all this.

    Deshmukh document did not happen in isolation. It represented the real RSS attitude towards Sikh genocide of 1984. The RSS is very fond of circulating publicity material, especially photographs of its khaki shorts- clad cadres doing social work. For the 1984 violence they have none. In fact, Deshmukh’s article also made no mention of the RSS cadres going to the rescue of Sikhs under siege. This shows up the real intentions of the RSS during the genocide.

    There is not a single sentence in the Deshmukh document demanding, from the then Congress Government at the Centre, remedial measures for controlling the violence against the minority community. Importantly, Deshmukh circulated this document on November 8, 1984, and from October 31 to this date Sikhs were left alone to face the killing gangs. George Fernandes while making this document public in 1984 wrote that it showed ‘Indira Congress-RSS collusion’. Nanavati Commission must investigate whether this collusion was confined to political sphere or went beyond to killing fields.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    balwinder jee i feel advani is masonic.he is not sikh.all over history they are the secret intigators of all genocides.nana deshmukh was known masonic.

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    So, you’re a retarded conspiracy theorist too. I bet you subscribe to all that illuminati/free masons nonsense. No wonder… tajender, these are all Pakistani traits if you ask me – what the hell are you doing at an Indian site?

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Milli Gazette????? Wow!!! What a source…Next you will quote from Osama’s diaries.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    gauri has given her addres check with her.content is right it must have come in lot of papers.i saw it today.ossama never lied like collin powell.he was chased by americans to help saudi royal family.he was never chargsheeted for 9/11 by fbi.i think he died long ago.abbotabad was drama ,to start withdrawal of american forces.mussoloni was hanged in main square of rome for three days.
    ossama was political figure not religious.he was not mufti or ayaytollah.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    praaje and ravi bhai add few more things to your knowledge, Did Advani Kill Gandhi ?

    Dinesh Digal

    It is clear that L.K.Advani the Baniya, along with A.B.Vajpayee the Brahmin, were fanatic followers of the Hindu supremacist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). It is also clear that Nathuram Godse the Brahmin who shot Mahatma Gandhi was a dedicated member of this same organisation. It is also clear that the Mahatma was not an `astik’ Brahminist; his beliefs had sufficient `nastik’ Jain admixture. Indeed, such was the strength of this admixture that Mahatma Gandhi was actually a lower-caste Gujarati convert to Jainism, and not an `astik’ Hindu. That is why the pious `astik’ follower of the Vedas, Nathuram Godse the Brahmin, killed Mahatma Gandhi the Gujurati.

    However, Nathuram Godse was not a very brave man. He was also very poor, and lacked the political connections to obtain the weapons necessary to kill Mahatma Gandhi, the `bad’ `nastik’ Jain. So he was helped by two young friends : one, L.K.Advani the Baniya and Atal Bihari Vajpayee the Brahmin. These two ruthless fanatics instigated Nathuram to commit the final assasination, and also supplied him with the weapon to do so. After the act, Pandit Nehru the Brahmin cunningly destroyed all information about these persons’ involvement in order to protect his Brahmin brothers. That is why Vajpayee escaped severe punishment. However, Advani was locked into a jail and sentenced to three-months’ imprisonment for his role in the assasination. This was stated by the respected Bengali leader Mr. Jyoti Basu :

    Asian Age, New Delhi, Saturday 2 October 1999 , front page
    Basu says Advani instigated Godse

    Chinsura (West Bengal): West Bengal chief minister Jyoti Basu on Friday justified his labelling L.K. Advani a “criminal,” claiming that the BJP leader was sentenced to three months imprisonment for allegedly instigating Nathuram Godse in the Mahatma Gandhi assassination case, a charge the Union home minister dismissed as a “**** and bull story.”

    “Why shouldn’t I call him a criminal when, apart from his involvement in the Gandhi assassination case, another case is also pending against him,” Mr Basu said at an election campaign meeting here. Mr Basu alleged that Mr Advani’s “indirect involvement” in the assassination of the father of the nation by RSS worker Nathuram Godse had been established by the legal machinery in the country and his “criminal antecedents” were now public.

    When contacted, Mr Advani told PTI “it is a **** and bull story about my involvement in Mahatma Gandhi’s assassination or my having anything to do with Nathuram Godse.”

    “It seems the veteran leader is upset at the growing irrelevance of his party to national politics and is losing his balance. I can only pity him,” he added. Asked if he was sentenced to three months imprisonment, the home minister said “not at all.”

    Addressing the meeting, Mr Basu said, “Why should not I call him a criminal when, apart from his involvement in the Gandhi assassination case, another case (on the Babri Masjid demolition) is pending against him.” “I had asked Advani once what happened to the ‘other case’ and he said it was still on but no chargesheet had yet been issued against him,” the chief minister said. Criticising Mr Advani’s “rath yatra” as a “gimmick” and squarely blaming him for the Babri Mosque demolition, Mr Basu said while Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee had admitted that it was an “act of frustration,” the home minister had never begged pardon for the “shameful act.”

    Pandit Vajpayee and L.K.Advani have of course denied any involvement in this killing, because they know their `soft Hindutva’ Brahmin buddies from the Congress have destroyed all evidence of their involvement. Pandit Nehru made sure his Brahmin comrades from the RSS went scot-clean, while only the inner circle of the Godse gang were punished. So good old Veer Savarkar the Brahmin was let off, unpunished, despite his role in the Gandhi killing.

    Of course, Advani and Vajpayee are both criminals and mass murderers on a colossal scale. While Pandit Vajpayee masterminded the Babri Masjid demolition and arranged for the subsequent mass murder of thousands of Muslims across South Asia, L.K.Advani took part in much of the killing himself. Both these savarna (high-caste) Hindu bigots are thus mass-exterminators on a grand scale. The assasination of Mahatma Gandhi was only one of a routine series of killings carried out by these fanatic Brahminists.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    CALLING ZIA
    ………………………CALLING ZIA
    ………………………………………CALLING ZIA

    EVER WONDERED WHY YOUR BLOG ATTRACTS SO FEW COMMENTS NOWADAYS.
    Where have have all these gems gone- Gopi Thomas, Dr Mishra, Shoeb K, Benoy Hegde, Rizwan, Raju Kurien, Shenoy, Dr Shah Alam Khan etc etc.

    answer- they have all gone to Vinod Sharma’s blog, which is on its 560th comment today

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    CALLING ZIA
    ………………………CALLING ZIA
    ………………………………………CALLING ZIA

    and you know why Zia- because you do not moderate your blog. There was too much personal abuse here

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    No. Lack of censureship is a good thing. Even though I don’t like a lot of what Zia writes, I will applaud him for not censoring his blogs. That’s a true liberals position. He now has to just work on the effects of arabization on him to get to a better place.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    mr rajx u are right.i apprteciate ur stand.correct me if u find me wrong somewhere.i hope vinod will follow ur advise as well.i dont insult anybody i dont use abusive language in my blogs.but views are different yes.everybody should have right to express his views.challenge me i am wrong.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    CALLING ZIA
    ………………………CALLING ZIA
    ………………………………………CALLING ZIA

    but there was another reason this blog of yours died- tajender aka ramavtar- who can be amusing or thoughtful 1% of the time
    but this mindless cut and paste- millions of posts everyday– barhminitis by day, zionitis by night- got DREARY- it killed debate
    ————————
    VINOD SHARMA TOTALLY BANNED HIM A MONTH AGO. Maybe you do not want to ban him- fine- at least limit his cut and paste
    ——————————————
    your blog, your choice

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    balwinder dont forget that most properous muslim state of south ,bijapur and golcunda was demolished by aurangzeb.
    arjundaas was murdered through conspiracy when he refuse to marry his son hargobind sing h to to daughter of chadu shah khatri of lahore.
    remaining 2 guru had vast muslim support.war was better deal not for religion.moghuls killed muslims more than anybody else whenever they challenged delhi throne.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    praajee if i wrote anything wrong please challenge.i am presenting u something which is true but not published by mainstream media.a good piece of knowledge.vinod jee ke blog mein,barring few
    most of the writing including from u is worthless.full of stupidities and waste of time.though i appreciate wrinting from vinod jee,ravi and shan.ur upper chamber is totally empty hence i never saw u writing anything to the point or full of knowledge.it is not a question of number,it is what is there.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    sorry i forgot dr saheb and ashish.we agree to disagree with them .but i like their writings..

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    prajee u are zoinist u are not brhmnst why u are worried about my blog against them.i consider these 2 forces as most voilent and danger of humanity.
    u can come up with ur view.which will awnsered in most respected way.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    prajee u are not zoinist .sorry

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    About Gujarat, there is a fundamental difference between the seculars and other Hindus. We, the normal Hindus feel and believe firmly that if the Muslims of Godhra had not executed their train burning plan under guidance from the ISI, the Gujarat riots would, most certainly, NOT have taken place. But the seculars have told the world through a pliant media, that Godhra or no Godhra, the riots would have taken place exactly as they did

    I SAW ABOVE IN VINOD BLOG, DR SAHEB CAN U SUBMIT ANY PROOF THAT GODHRA TRAIN BURNING WAS PLANNED.riots in ahmadabad were happening since 1969.there was no godhra.then.as per FIR fire in compartment was extinguished by muslims.
    ahmadab 2002 riot was preplanned.read the interview of pandya father.he predicted the riot by modi before.u are doctor write something after analysing this.bogey was reserved,all passengers are alive.it was locked from where these bodies came.goverment never published any list of dead.

    even if this evil act was done by muslims which i am sure they didi not do this.govt ko apna rajdharam nibhana chahiye tha.in first 15 minutes of train burning rss goons demolished DARGAH of wali gujrati and built road there in 3 days.

    [Reply]

  • RajX

    The last time I checked, Sherry Rehman is in hiding so as to prevent some Islamic nutter from doing to her what they did to shabaz bhatti and the taseer guy. Khushwant Singh, despite his aging, seems to be looking at the world through a more clearer lens than our Zia. Religious prejudices are known to cloud the lenses through which you look at life. It’s time Zia realized that if he wants to go beyond being just a “young Muslim” journalist.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    mr rajx ,

    murder of salman taseer and shahbaz bhatti were highly deplorable acts.carried out by tahreek taliban.but these people should have been more political i have seen taseer abusing mullahs on tv in very bad and unparliamentary language.he should have known their power and link.i think nawaz sherief was also involved in this heinous crime.shahbaz bhatti should have follow the example of manmohansingh our prime minister.
    when country is under occupation by christian imperialistic forces.leave the sensitive issues to later dates.

    because of occupation and robbery of national wealth by their liberal rulers 80% of pakistanis are in favour of imposing sharia.their approach to issues was right,but timing was wrong.

    [Reply]

    Raj Reply:

    Dude, by admitting that 80% of Pakistanis want Shariah, aren’t you directly admitting contradictions? How is liberalism in Pakistan flourishing when a solid 80% want Islamic orthodoxy?

    I don’t think Zia is a liberal – honestly speaking, it’s a facade, Zia’s only liberal when in public. Other than that, well, culture does have a strong pull for most people, so you can’t really blame him for that too.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    at the time of partition south india brhmns wanted india to run on sharia,while north indian brhmns wanted christian/western civil code.nothie succeded.while i too feel sharia was better ,s high moral principle is base of their society.what we lack now is morality.
    indians are being crushed under money driven society.where u can rob and kill ur father and sell ur mother for money.
    hence desire of pakis for sharia to be the base of their society is based on their experience.
    india ran on sharia for hundreds of years and experience was good.

    tajender Reply:

    How is liberalism in Pakistan flourishing when a solid 80% want Islamic orthodoxy?

    sharia is needed to control corruption.where justice should be cheap and instant.in nigeria even christians are opting for sharia law.this liberate them with expensive lawyers,who make sure that victim sells whatever is left.

    RajX Reply:

    Tajinder, totalitarian religious laws like sharia are bad any time. There is no right time to introduce them. To control corruption, you need a honest investigative agency and leaders who want to eliminate curruption. Sharia is a part of Arab tradition and it is not something they should be ashamed of for it’s primitive approach to law(eye for an eye, three witnesses for woman who are raped etc). It has no place in civilized India.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Typo.

    It should have been “it is something they should be ashamed of”

  • Raj

    This Zia gentleman’s ‘blog’ is like someone taking a huge dump – after finishing writing, he doesn’t bother looking up comments and interacting. It’s how you go to your washroom when you’ve got a bad stomach ache – no one in the right mind will ever dig back what is dumped and flushed, similarly, Mr. Zia doesn’t bother verifying his dump on his blog.

    Most of this is pure b/s if you ask me – if Muslims have some identity problems, sure, it’s their right to try and set things right – but people like Zia and Manji (some ‘modern’ Islam advocate from NYU) tend to drag other cultures in the mud along with them.

    I really don’t mind muslims defending Islam, it’s great that they do – but rather, they should take a stance which is constructive – like how there can be certain co-relation between the message in the Gita and their interpretation of Jihad in Islam – something that doesn’t drag and muddy, thus not sullying, a co-relative subject or culture in question.

    So, Zia et al., should firstly entertain the thought that there is a great deal of positive, in say, Ahmedis or the Bahaiis or the Hindus or the Jews – then he should identify the good points in a co-relative subject – he should finally look for practices within Islam, as he interprets it, that draw and aim for the same *positives* as intended for the subject in question.

    You should, in short, attempt to do a ‘we are good, and we’re so because other faiths with practices such as so and so, which are termed good, require similar social outcomes’ – rather than, ‘we’re bad, right – but they are the same if not worst…’ What the hell are you tryin’ to pull anywhere here?

    Get it right Zia – seriously dude, you’ve been given a platform to really spread a message man – don’t freakin’ blow it with senseless b/s like present in most of whatever you post usually. Be a constructive force that binds, not a glaring failure of humanity – because I have serious doubts if you indeed are a liberal at all, to be honest.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Raj- you are absolutely right!

    [Reply]

  • ved

    It has become a fashion with pseudos like Zia to wear a mask of liberal,moral being and spew venom against communities.They are wolves masquerading as peaceful sheep.No arguments except hateful comments. No logic but conclusions.

    [Reply]