Communal violence Bill 2011: Why not?



A proposed law to deal with communal violence is being called biased and seen as totally tilted towards minorities. Correct. That’s my impression too.

And that’s exactly how it ought to be – positively biased. For, it often takes one bias to correct another.

Those who find the draft “Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence (Access to Justice and Regulations) Bill 2011” biased have obviously failed to see its real purpose.

It is to specifically deal with violence against minorities of all kinds — such as Muslims, Kashmiri Pandits, Dalits and other groups — who tend to suffer targeted violence merely because of their group identity. That is why it makes provisions for punishment only for communal violence against the minority communities.

Since this is not a law to tackle all forms of communal violence, its title should have explicitly stated as much. Calling it the “Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence Bill” leaves room for ambiguity.

In the manner of plain speaking, it ought to have been named “Protection of Minorities from Targeted Communal Violence Bill”, or something along those lines. Moreover, the government ought to have spelt out the purpose of this Bill clearly at the very outset.

For one, this is a special law, and not a general piece of legislation. When specialized acts of collective violence are treated like any other crime under Indian law, their targeted nature is not explicitly dealt with.

Therefore, minorities of this country – be it Dalits, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs or Kashmiri Pandits – need a special law positively biased towards them. Often, they are threatened because of hostility towards India’s very pluralism. This threat is growing with time, not diminishing.

Since numerical supremacy always places the majority community in any society at a certain advantageous position that can be leveraged socially and politically, minorities always need safeguards.

So, we are not apologetic when we say that a law positively biased is just what is required to ensure protection of minorities.

In fact, other such positively biased laws are already in place, such as the one that makes even verbal insults and taunts against Dalits a punishable offence.

It is being pointed out that the draft Bill simply presumes that violence cannot come visiting on the majority community. This is not true.

Violence can be directed against the majority community too and this should be firmly and comprehensively dealt with under provisions of the Indian Penal Code. The germane issue remains the same: all violence is deplorable but vulnerable groups need special security.

Take, for example, a hospital, where all inmates are equally threatened with opportunistic infections. The hospital will have sufficient routine measures to prevent such infections.

Despite these, the wards of children and the elderly enjoy enhanced protective measures, as they form the vulnerable sections simply because of “who they are”. While infections can visit all inmates, children and the elderly will be less effective at fending them off.

When the majority community faces targeted violence, experience shows that two factors will ensure that such violence — however fierce at the beginning — will sooner be quelled and blunted out by sheer (a) dominance and (b) prevalence of the majority community.

The retributive phase that follows will then be more acute and grisly. Then, killings will happen on an industrial magnitude, if you like, because the “economies of scale” kick in. Overpowered and subdued, the minorities suffer far greater number of casualties.

Invariably, a contagion effect ensures that newer riots occur at locations far away from the original site of dispute and are abetted, commanded and managed by the majority community, often involving political players. Typically, peace is ensured when anger is satiated.

Almost as a rule, governments in India have failed to control riots when there is political complicity.

Some political parties with a certain ideology will have a natural proclivity to actively or tacitly engage in such violence. However, all political parties may be equally prone to play some part, given the correlation between votes and violence. (Refer to Yale’s Wilkinson here.)

Therefore, some of India’s worst riots against minorities (such as the Ahmedabad riots of 1969, the Moradabad riots of 1980, the Meerut riots of 1987, and the anti-Sikh riots of Delhi) went uncontrolled by the Congress. The BJP has of course presided over worst violence against religious minorities, from Gujarat to Orissa.

The draft Bill provides for the “command doctrine” to penalize authorities who are in a position or are mandated to stop riots. Therefore, the BJP has alleged that the draft Bill is inspired by the Gujarat riots of 2002.

Good law-making and legal amendments are precisely meant to do just that: learn from practical events, take into account emerging tendencies that require attention, fix new flaws and retrofit newer clauses that may have become necessary.

India, for three-quarters of a century or more, has witnessed significant collective violence. It is important to remember that such violence against religious minorities in India is not — as aptly termed by Brass — “spontaneous outbreaks of passion”, but “productions by organized groups”. (See Paul Brass’ The Production of Hindu-Muslim Violence in Contemporary India, University of Washington Press.)

Also, newer political developments in India have given rise to newer forms of minorities. Therefore, the new law could also protect non-Marathis in Mumbai, who have been targeted by the Shiv Sena and the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena, or Bihar’s migrant labourers in Assam.

The core doctrine of the draft Bill is its recognition that Dalits, tribals as well as linguistic and religious minorities are particularly vulnerable groups. They are targeted for “who they are”. A law to address violence against minorities is nothing if it goes against this grain.

Of course, as with all laws, this one could also be used, abused, not appropriately used or simply unused. The efficacy of a law depends on the intention with which it is applied. The pudding cannot be sweet if the chef intends it to be sour.

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  • Ravi

    Passing a minorities protection bill is one thing.

    Providing minorities real protection is just another.

    Both the main parties have tarnished reputation because of their instigating communal violence.

    However, the Bill is a good start to stop this ugly blot of our political landscape.

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  • Munir

    You state: “Violence can be directed against the majority community too and this should be firmly and comprehensively dealt with under provisions of the Indian Penal Code. ”

    Why cannot the violence against minorities be dealt with under provisions of Indian Penal Code. I am not sure if a biased bill such as this targeted against only the majority community can stand judicial scrutiny. It is a dangerous piece of legislation, which will further divide society along religious lines and should never become law.

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  • shan

    @zia, Blimey long time no see.
    You are going to get a lot of stick from bloggers in coming weeks,
    your drawing example with medical scenario is simply BOLLOCKS
    There are laws against RACISM in UK ,but it is applicable equally to any community.
    An englishman in scotland was subjected to abuse in pubs by the scots BECAUSE HE WAS ENGLISH
    he was helped by Council for racial equality in bringing prosecution for racial harassment.
    ALSO IN UK IT IS 99% time WHITE ON NON WHITE VIOLENCE, thus racial angle was brought in to amplify the punishment in violent crimes.
    IN INDIA MUSLIMS ARE 49% cases responsible HINDU RIGHT WING THUGS 51% cases
    So the picture is different despite the whatever the population profile may suggest.
    Despite all this after the riots in BRADFORD, WHITE THUGS GOT 10 MONTHS JAIL BANGLADESHIS AND PAKISTANIS GOT 5-6 YRS EACH
    INDEED TIME TO SAY MERA BHARAT MAHAN

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  • Mohan Ramchandani
  • Mohan Ramchandani

    And this

    http://blog.offstumped.in/2011/05/26/nacs-draft-communal-violence-bill-an-analysis/

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    suraj Reply:

    Absolutely wrong. Most of the riots in this country are started by muslims after friday namaz. They want to implement sharia in India. You are asking the country to be turned into an islamic state which we vehemently oppose. Muslims are not the victims but the aggressors in any rioting. You are aksing for the destruction of the country by being a approver of islamic fundamentalists who will in the longer term use this law to target non muslims whom they call kaffirs.

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    Raj Kumar Jha Reply:

    The Bill is based on the premise that there is a majority community in India which indulges in violence against the minority community . But there are two facts which invalidate the premise . First , the Hindus , who are considered as constituting majority community , are not a monolithic entity , they are divided and subdivided into several castes and sub castes , which more often than not , indulge in violence against one another . Two , as the reports point out it is generally the minority community which behaves aggressively and indulges in violence . It is no body’s case that violence should be tolerated , but by discriminating against the long time subdued Hindus the govt is not only acting against the Hindus , but jeopardising national interest and national unity also .

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  • http://- Rajeev

    Only hinduphobes can support such a biased bill. I knew Osama-lover Zia would love to have this kind of bill so that terrorists in his community can go scott-free.

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    ahmed Reply:

    good comment mr rajeev but it would be better if u first define terrorism . lets define , u r getting scared right ? . what u mean by terrorist , the Narendra Modi the biggest terrorist of india , who is a mass murderur of minority and living freely , not only free but in power. These people should be behind the bars who terrorize the millions of people . To protect those innocent people who r vulnerable to killing, rape by terrorist group VHP , bajrang dal and RSS ……. so we need protection law . Like there is a protective law for black in usa . i hope u Understand dear.

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    Rajeev Reply:

    No, You guys started it by buring 59 people to death. That is what is terrorism.
    When Osama killed 3000 people on 9/11, that is terrorism.
    When a journalist is beheaded while reciting Quran, that is terrorism.

    Violence by other communities is pure retaliation (defence).

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    manuj Reply:

    what happen in Gujrat was wrong yet we can never dispute the germ of it was bcas muslims kill 59 hindu in a train, if more muslims are killed after that, its bcas the anger need a vent out..islam is the biggest bane of today’s world, I f ever ther eis a law required then its for the security of we Hindu’s against the Islamic Terrorism..Just to remind you very often but truly said line on this topic. All Muslims are not terrorists but yes all TERRORISTS are muslim. High time you wake up buddy…Open ur eyes

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    abhinav Reply:

    @ahmed
    This is now old tactics (Freedom Fighter and Terrorists) now even James Bond do not use these dialogues so get over it.
    Show me one video/audio where Modi is calling to kill muslims and I will accpet he is terrorist.
    Most of the riots in India are started by MINORITY community so having this kind of bill is useless, probably it will increase the number of riots.

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  • Raju Kurien

    aanother appeasing tactic by Congress.. does not cost money, does not guarantee advancement, ctreates further divide..

    Violence is violence; there are rules to tackle it.. Creating another rule is going to create confusion.. What is the definitioon of minority? Is nt it local geography specific? Ie what happens a majority d Hindu community, say Vaishyas, in a village attacks a minority Brahmins living in that community? Who will define community?

    It is time for India to move away from caste/religiuon based politics and policies.. This is not a major issue facing the country–Yes there are communal violences; having another rule is not going to alleviate or minimize it. The best leveller is education and economic achievement; and that is what Congress should strive for

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  • suraj

    There has been no communal riot in this country for the last few years. There is no justification in making a law which protects only muslims. A law can not discriminate against its citizens as it will be then considered as unconstitutional.If a law is made it should protect all citizens from communal violence, minority or majority communalism.

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  • http://thegoofysufi.blogspot.com Amit Julka

    good article zia….although it would be better to define what we mean my minority and majority. As you have correctly pointed out, Hindus are technically a majority but in the case of Kashmir, they are a vulnerable group. Also, this bill should no only restrict itself to religious minorities. Groups like adivasis are also vulnerable to state/non state violence….

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  • angryindian

    The issues where there is consensus like corruption, black money and lokpal bill, Congress is doing nothing. The ones which are explosive and politicial they are raising. I firmly believe any bill should be equally applicable on every community. I do not support any bias towards minorities as there are ample cases in which riots are started by them, the people from so called majority becomes vicitm and no action can be taken against perpetrators just because they belong to minorities and it will be politically controversial to touch them. I personally have seen people boasting of gundaism just telling that they belong to minority so they can do anything.

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  • raman

    I am trying to write my view in Vir Sanghvi’s and other bloggerss’ but they are censoring it. I hope you are different.
    These are not directed towards Zia.

    To the new generation Journos:

    I have few questions: How much is salary Congress pay ? Did they pay good? Because I am trying to find better career which can pay real good and I am thinking of doing job like you.

    I am really inspired by you and It will be pleasure to work with you or just like you. Please, guide me.

    My skills:
    1) I can cook up stories in favour of congress.
    2) I know many languages so I can be more useful.
    3) I am MODI – basher….ya, that horrible person ( I guess this is the preliminary requirement).
    4) I am secular (you know what I mean..:D)

    Hard-worker, Corrupt, sycophant, ..These are few of my qualities.

    I am willing to work on my english grammer. Excuse me for any mistakes.

    “Stupid people can’t spell. Intelligent people make typographical errors”

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  • http://InAnswertoMrGulabSingh gt

    Every where Hindus are being thrown out but in our country muslims are being given Hajj money and now these communal bills which are in their favour.Hindus were driven out from Pakistan,Bangla Desh but our great India kept all the muslims after partition result we have problems from hard liners in Kashmir.Matter of fact Islam is different religion from Hinduism but our government wants to make sure muslims get more than first class citizenship.It is only India who has kept two different laws one for muslims and other for Hindus.I guess all these bills are to make sure muslim votes for congress nothing else.

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  • Indian_Abroad

    The same Congress did nothing when Kashmiri Hindus were mass murdered, raped, tortured and driven out of the state.

    The same Congress did nothing when its own leaders mass butchered Sikhs in 1984.

    Now they want to pose as messiha of minority.

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    VedicIndian Reply:

    vote banking

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  • Naveed

    To protect minorities the bill has to be tilted in their favor. Minorities face threat from communal forces (RSS/BJP/VHP/SS), they also face threat from state governments where these communal parties are in power. Gujarat Riots were very clearly orchestrated by the state government “To teach Muslims a Lesson”. In 1984 the Congress Led Government in New Delhi carried out a massive pogrom of Sikhs. Sikhs have not been the same since that mayhem. in 2008 The state Government in Orissa clearly protected the BJP leadership in atrocious violence against Christians. How does this law protect the minorities from the State Government? How are the Tribals protected in different states?

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    shan Reply:

    @Naveed mia , have you asked yourself when hindus were slaughtered in punjab , what was govt doing . Similarly the anti sikh riot as much it is deplorable , always PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE, AS IT APPLIES TO GUJRAT AS WELL(think GODHRA)

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    RajX Reply:

    Mian Naveed, who exactly protected the Kashmiri Hindu pandits from religious cleansing by the rabid arabized Muslim converts in Kashmir?

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  • http://- Rajeev

    What will this bill do if muslims start killing christians or sikhs (who are also minority)?
    Basically UPA wants to give muslims full right to kill anybody…

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    VedicIndian Reply:

    true…just violence shud be reason enuf to punish anyone!

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  • VedicIndian

    shame on you Zia! the people killed in Kashmir were not killed for being pandits only but hindus and non-muslims. muslims are technically minority but are the most violent community anywhere. this is a fact as can be seen by daily news! now, being a majority means we should subjugate muslims because they are anyway getting a bill which is biased towards them for this reason. WELL, this might be the beginning of the end of muslims in india!

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  • Venkatesh

    They call me muslim guy…read the fine prints and the talk.
    First of all…this clearly shows you give priority to your RELIGION and not COUNTRY…
    Secondly, there cannot and should not be SPECIAL LAW in one country. This is the problem in India with article 360, muslim personal law board etc giving SPECIAL privileges to a community.
    The line stating MAJORITY IS ASSUMED TO BE CULPABLE IN CASE OF RIOTS is unacceptable. Is it that the majority always causes violence? What about Godhra…the instigation happened from MINORITY and not MAJORITY. Rajiv Gandhi laid the stone for RAM TEMPLE and created babri masjid issue.
    Third and the most important…this bill seems to be clearly targeting HINDUS as they are the majority. It does not talk about considering the majority population of a STATE WITHIN INDIA and then DECIDING WHO SHOULD BE BENEFITED BY THIS LAW. Thus, if there is violence in Kashmir, then it will be HINDUS who will be blamed for it and not the Kashmir majority which is Muslims.

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  • Manny

    Upper caste Hindus are minorities. Backward castes are the majority.

    Christians and Muslims are the two biggest religions in the world. They are not minoroties.

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  • ISHRAT HUSAIN

    A greater positive effect could be achieved to have peace and harmony in the society by enacting the law provided it conforms 4 stages i.e-GOOD THOUGHT,INTENTION,SPIRIT AND FOLLOWED BY ACTION, and this would eliminate the possibility of rightly quoted quote,”THE PUDDING CAN NOT BE SWEET IF THE CHEF INTENDS TO MAKE IT SOUR.”
    If we see the backwardness in the society,reservations to dalits, poverty and sense of being public servants etc we all could not get the desired results perhaps not conforming to 4 stages mentioned above as litmus test!!!
    But the law must not leave the possibility of the innocents of the majority to protect their interest.
    Matter of fact, I dissuade the terminology majority and minority and what I believe in is that–INNOCENT MUST BE PROTECTED.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Absolutely. Innocents should be protected. Whoever commits violence should be punished.
    Laws are already there, congress is into another “appeasement” cycle.

    Year ago, in May 2003, there was a brutal riot in Marad, in Kerala. It was planned by a section of Muslims (later found to be tied to extremist Muslim wing NDF) , they sent their women folks away to relatives in other cities, and killed 8 Hindu fishermen ging from hut to hut.. Ak Antony, the CM at that time was quite hurt by the incident, and he made a statement …..” interests have been skyjacked in the name of “minority rights”..Other communities have some misconception, misunderstanding, and even complaints because minorities through orgnized religious political bargaining are getting many advantages causing the society to be split and alienated”.. Muslim League complained to the madam, and eventually Antony had to leave the chief ministership..

    We have to be aware of what happened in Sri Lanka. There were various underlying reasons for the catastrophic civil war, finally subjugating the minority while shaming the whole country – the root and trigger was that the majority felt that one by one their rights were taken away (at the end of the day it is how people feel vs what is in the books), that they are made like a nobody in their own country, and the rest is history.

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    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    No Tajnder. AK Antony was a courageous congress leaader who pointed to the problems of “minority appeasement”, the wedge it is creating etc after Muslims massacred others on the shores of Marad. However, he was hsut down by his high command (from pressure from Muslim League) and his CMship taken away

    I hope and pray a SriLanka type issue does not come up; but bills like this will naturally lead to a situation where majority will simply get fed up and take cation.. We do not want that to happen. There is no need to find that trigger point.

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  • Shreyas

    It’s going to be shahbano moment for Sonia. Please bring it on. After thrashing baba this is all Sonia needs to give to half dead BJP.

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  • ram

    Hi Zia bhai

    Why are you writing like you have been taken over by ghost of late General Zia Ul Haq of Pakistan? Perpetrators of hate crimes do not belong to one religion but fantics are common in all religions. You must be apologetic for writing crass defence of communalists in the name of minorityism!Indian Consitution gurantees equality for all and we Indians do not need to go way of the religion crazy and jingostic neigbour or atheistic neigbour our West and North respectively. Sarvadharma Sambhav means respect for all religions as no religion is majority or minority Vote Hingry politicians are!

    So called secular Congress has worst riots under its regime while the Muslim Majority Governments and egged by rabid separtist religious are responsible for genocide of Kashmiri Pandits and deaths of Kashmiri Muslim brothers with ample support from mainstream secular and other politicians.

    Should not a communal violence bill protect all Indians and why not punish perpetrators of riots lioke Congress fopr 1984 anti Sikh riots and 1993 comunal riots where poor Indians wer victims regardless of majority/minority??Your comments add fire to the fat and promote ghetto mentality to say the least.

    Please do not write such gutter sentiments Ziabhai I thought you ere an educated person. While some of your pieces are outlandish this kind of provocative writing is not done as your blog should not aspire to be commnal rag wjheter saffron or green or of any other colour!

    Best Wishes

    Rambhai
    Singapore

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This Bill does not address violence against common people by political outfits such as-
    1. 1984 massacre of Sikhs by Congress (supported by Indian media).
    2. continuous Massacre of innocents by communists.
    3. 2002 massacre of muslims by BJP/RSS and Congressi elements.
    4. Muslim league killing hindus in Kerala.
    5. Congress targetting hindus in north-eastern states.
    6. Congress-Hurriyat (kashmiri muslims) killing hindu pundit.

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  • http://- Rajeev

    What if after rioting majority (hindus) convert to Islam/Christianity to escape suppression?
    What if after whole issue dies down, they revert back to hinduism?

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    RajX Reply:

    Islam is like hotel California. You can checkin any time but you can never leave. You can only leave in a body bag.

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    shan Reply:

    @rajX, you are not far from truth, is the name of a film or what, enlighten me

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    It’s a variation on a song called hotel California by a band called eagles.

  • shan

    Guys I think far effective and honourable would be an act that says when ever there is an RIOT , there will be a dedicated force sent to tackle it and dedicated agency to investigate it. Even better if the govt can set up network like there is now for monitoring epidemics, so that at the first sign of trouble , the preventative measures are activated and the fire doused before it causes a conflagration

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  • http://- Rajeev

    The best thing will be to catch leaders of rioters from both side and charge them with severest crime.

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  • RajX

    This is just another play in the divide and conquer strategy by congress and people like Zia happy and uncritically swallow the bait. It’s not clear how this bill will offer more protection than what current laws offer in situation like the religious cleaning of Kashmiri pandits by Muslims or the anti Sikh riots organized by the congress party. It’s better to implement the laws we have on the books than invent news ones which will also suffer from the same lack of implementation.

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  • RajX

    Arabs are entering 8th century and so are the arabized like you. There is nothing barbaric about fasting for change. What is barbaric is what’s happening in Arab Libya, Bahrain and Yemen where both protesters and the their Arab despotic dictators engage in violence. The Arabs are still in the 7th century following the violent ways of their primitive prophet.

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  • ram

    Hello Friends

    Lets keep the matter in perspective. Instead of tearing each other to pieces:
    1)Communal vikoklence bill can be equally APPLICABLE FOR ALL INDIANS.
    2)I presume Ziabhai is a Muslim Indian as I am a Hindu Indian. So when core identoty is Indian what is the point in squabbling about foreign/alien practices. majorityb of Muslim Indians practice SUFI Islam and majority of Hindu Indians in fact all Indians practise peaceful and tolerant religion which respect all religions. Sectarianism in Indians or amongst sects in relogions in India will harm all Indians.

    So hope Ziabhai does not wriote such offensive demeaning column again or I beleive he has again emphasized UNITY OF ALL INDIANS regardless of our mutual differences.

    JAI HIND

    Ram
    Singapore

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  • Balwinder Sandhu

    DR SHAN cracked this lovely joke at me-
    shan says: June 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    There was a sheep in delhi. It smelt so horrible than people hundreeds of yard away would run for their life.
    A bengali was passing by, he could not tolerate the smell and left some yards before reaching the door. Bihar did a little better , tamils improved on it by entering the room .NEXT ENTER SOMEBODY CALLED BALLWINDER SANDHU.
    He entered the room and stayed on. After FOUR hours people saw something coming out of that room. IT WAS THE SHEEP WHICH HAD COME OUT OF THE ROOM , WITH BLEEDING FROM ITS BACKSIDE
    ————-
    this is his sense of humour and yes, HE IS A DOCTOR FROM KENT, can you believe it

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    and to this SHENOY replied appropriately- B.V.SHENOY Reply: June 7th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Shaan,

    a very crude and smelly joke only a man with a demented mind can dish out.

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    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    and Nirav also had his say earlier- “”"Nirav Reply: @shan, I know your shan and sham on this blog and i have read what other bloggers have to say about you. So please excuse as i do not want to waste my time with you.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    This was the trigger of the joke that followed about a smelly sheep and its bruised bottom.
    It is also known as to every action there is an unequal and ferocious reaction

    Balwinder Sandhu says:
    June 7, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    pankaj , brilliant joke above- hehe- bengali said, where I can find a pregnant woman , so that I may have a son??

    DEAR MR VINOD SHARMA, you are getting unncessarily worked up over tajender. Listen to this chutkula-
    What does SHAN , Tajender and Max Mosely of F1 GRAND PRIX racing have in common ??

    they love to have their bottom spanked in public hehe

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  • Rizwan

    SHAN
    Balwinder’s joke was brilliant, caustic. Yours was as Shenoy sir put it- ” a very crude and smelly joke only a man with a demented mind can dish out ”
    Try and live upto the noble tradition of being a doctor for you are turning out to be the most hated and ridiculed twat on HT

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    shan Reply:

    Rizwan
    You are turning out to be the only one without a job ,and only one who has no self esteem and subsists on handout from elderly dad. You are pathetic , You are a JOKE or a JOKER or a BEKAAR

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  • RAMESH AGARWAL

    I DONT AGREE WITH THE AUTHOR AND THIS DRAFT.IT IS MEANT TO PLEASE MUSLIMS IN VIEW OF 2014 ELECTIONS.MUSLIMS ARE MOST PAMPHERED COMMUNITY AND GET SUPPORT FROM SO CALLED SECULAR POLITICIANS, MEDIA AND HUMAN RIGHTISTS.IT IS WRITTEN IN VIEW OF GUJRAT RIOTS BY MEMBERS LIKE HARSH MANDER AND ARUNA ROY GREATEST OPPONENTS OF MODI THAT IS WHY IN NAC.IT IS WRONG THAT MAJORITY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT WHILE IN 99%IT IS MUSLIMS WHO HAD STARTED RIOTS BUT NEVER PUNISHED DUE TO VOTE BANK POLITICS.IF PASSED THEN MUSLIMS WILL BE IN UPPERHAND AS IN CASE OF RIOTS HINDUS WILL BE PUNISHED AND IT WILL BE DECIDED BY A COMMISSION WITH MUSLIM MAJORITY.WHILE EVERY MUSLIM LIKE KHURSHEED AHMED AND RASHID ALWI ALWAYS TALKSABOUT MUSLIMS NO HINDU LEADERS HAVE EVER SPOKEN IN THEIR FAVOUR OPENLY WHETHER IT IS EXPULSION OF PUNDITS FROM VALLEY OR STEP BROTHERLY TREATMENT FOR JAMMU.WHILE HINDU SAINTS ARE BEING TARGETTED AND HUMILIATED MUSLIM TERRORISTS,SEPARATISTS ,ANTI NATIONALS AND ILLEGAL BENGLADESHIES ARE GIVEN SPECIAL TREATEMENT AS GOVT GUEST AND WITH THIS LAW HINDUS WILL BE MORE AT RECEIVING END BESIDE CENTRAL WILL GET ACCUSE TO INTERFERE IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS OF BJP RULES STATES ON LITTLE EXCUSE/.IT IS DRACOLIAN LAW AND NOT SUITABLE IN DEMOCRATIC AND SECULAR COUNTRY

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  • syed

    ……..It is to specifically deal with violence against minorities of all kinds — such as Muslims, Kashmiri Pandits, Dalits and other groups….

    Who can really argue with this?? On the face of it, the proposal seems sound.

    For those who claim that only muslims instigate communal violence, I would request them to google hashimpura massacre, nellie massacre, bhagalpur massacre …, among many others, to get the general idea.

    For those who say “muslims are pampered”, that issue has been debated to death on Zia’s earlier blogs not so long ago.

    Ques for the “muslims are pampered brigade”
    .. SIMI was rightly banned when a few of its members were found involved in terrorist activities. But when members of RSS were found involved in terrorist activities was the RSS banned. Who is being pampered now?

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  • Balwinder Singh

    syed bhai, welcome back.
    Agree with most of your post.
    We look at SIMI because it is a part of a wider global network. There is a lot of cooperation between SIMI, ISI, aL-QUAEDA, LeT, etc
    SIMI is rabidly viloent through and through- one point agenda of terror
    RSS gets bad publicity for the actions of a tiny minority but they have a very disciplined cadre which does a lot of social work.
    banning whole of SIMI is justified, going after that tiny minority of RSS is also justified.—–
    pl come on Vinod Sharma’s blog also- mahabharat going on there
    hehe

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  • Balwinder Singh

    Dear Zia
    Your comments please.
    Your blog used to be popular with excellent contributions by Ashish, Bobby, Mishraji, Syed bhai, Gopi Thomas, Raju Kurien, Benoy Hegde, Shoeb K, L Mirza, Rizwan, Mohan, in particular.

    But there were 4 characters who strted driving people away- they were abusive to each other in very vile language and they also abused others gods and religions.

    Are you really that powerless to ban people. Kumkum and Gautajm do that.
    Your thoughts please

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    Balwinder Singh Reply:

    you want their names ? the gang of four

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  • syed

    @B sandhu

    “We look at SIMI because it is a part of a wider global network. There is a lot of cooperation between SIMI, ISI, aL-QUAEDA, LeT, etc”…

    You are going by newspaper reports given out sprouted by the then Govt to justify banning SIMI. The US has the most intensive covert and overt operations worldwide against terrorist groups. No SIMI connection has EVER been found by the US with any terrorist group, indian or worldwide. In fact SIMI has never even been mentioned by them anywhere in any connection.

    I agree with Tajender on this. This is just a paper organisation that was banned for furthering a specific agenda.

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  • Rizwan

    syed bhai, neither you nor I are privy to everu nugget of intelligence that Indian and US govt have on SIMI, so lets not jump the gun and give them a clean chit. We muslims should cast a gimlet eye inwards and make sure that any muslim org speaks only of education and jobs for the next 100 years.
    I for one have had enuff of the religious posturing of everyone from Deoband to Bukhari to SIMI. tHE FOUNDERS of simi were indeed dangerous

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    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Rizwan

    SIMI is quite dangerous. The communal harmony in Kerala, and the inter-communal (Muslim on Muslim) killings here in Kerala were triggered by SIMI. And when they were banned, they came back as NDF. SDPI you name it…

    You know Kerala had a Muslim League Chief Minister, CH Mohamed Koya, who was well-respected in the state. But, as times passed, and as extremists took hold, the atmosphere is all poisoned. Chekannur Maulavi, a staunch “Indian” progressive was murdered by the extremists ; so also a few other maulavis. The hand-chopping incident has given a “treasure trove” of information; Achuthanandan, the respected ex Marxist Chief Minister stated that the documents showed these extremists had plans to crete urter chaos and form Kerala into a Muslim country. Now Achuthanandan belongs to a backward caste; he is a hard core communist of the old school.

    Panakkad Syed Thangal, who is the leader of the Muslim League, has always criticized the extremists; has always stressed educational achievements, has always stressed coexistence, respect of our ancient civilization.

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  • Rizwan

    Objectives and Ideology – SIMI-

    Governing of human life on the basis of the Holy Quran
    Propagation of Islam
    Jehad for the cause of Islam

    SIMI also attempts to utilize the youth in the propagation of Islam and also to mobilize support for Jihad and establish a Shariat-based Islamic rule through “Islami Inqulab”. As the organization does not believe in a nation-state, it does not believe in the Indian Constitution or the secular order. SIMI also regards idol worship as a sin and considers it to be a holy duty to terminate idol worship
    +++++++++++++ENUFF SAID

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  • Gautam Gulati

    Isn’t this the TRUTH…???!!!

    Muslims feel bad… !!! ???

    Muslims feel bad in Gaza

    Muslims feel bad in Jordan

    They feel bad in Jerusalem

    They feel bad in Israel (they say they don’t get the same rights)

    They feel bad in EgypThey feel bad in Libya

    They feel bad in Algeria

    They feel bad in Tunisia

    They feel bad in Morocco

    They feel bad in Yemen

    They feel bad in Pakistan

    They feel bad in Lebanon

    They feel bad in Syria

    They feel bad in Sudan

    They feel bad in Iran

    They feel bad in Tchetchenya
    Where do the Arabs feel good?

    They feel good in England
    They feel good in France
    They feel good in Italy
    They feel good in Holland
    They feel good in Germany

    They feel good in Sweden
    They feel good in Denmark
    They feel good in Norway
    They feel good in the USA

    They feel good in Canada
    They feel good in Australia
    They feel good in Rumania

    They feel good in Hungary
    What can we learn from these facts?
    They feel good in all non-Muslim Countries
    They feel bad in all Muslim Countries

    Who they blame for this?

    Not Islam
    Not their leaders

    They blame the countries where they feel good to live in!

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    my thoughts entirely, Anna Hazare saheb-
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Baba-Ramdev-not-mature-enough-to-lead-Anna-Hazare/articleshow/8809054.cms
    Baba Ramdev not mature enough to lead: Anna Hazare

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    syed bhai- your comment “”"No SIMI connection has EVER been found by the US with any terrorist group, indian or worldwide”"”
    USA is not omni present omnipotent- just because they have not found a connection, does not mran it does not exist.
    US wiill only go after terrorists that terrorise it- in US or elsewhere. They cared 2 hoots for lashkar when it was bombing India, but the moment it started rattling the US cage, all fury broke loose

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  • Balwinder Sandhu

    gautam with due respect- your post is – point scoring.
    One could also say that muslims are happy in Europe and US because of money.
    compare your post with that of riswan, our young turk- “”"We muslims should cast a gimlet eye inwards and make sure that any muslim org speaks only of education and jobs for the next 100 years.”"”

    [Reply]

  • Syed

    @B Sandhu
    Maybe you are right, however I have no intention of supporting simi or any other such org., dont know much about it. Just got riled up a bit when someone started the hackneyed chant… muslims always start communal riots, muslims are pampered etc.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Syed,
    You are right. Not all muslims are same. I agree Shias are peaceful it Sunnis especially wahabbi types always start the riots. They refuse to let anyone else including you live in peace.

    [Reply]

  • Abhilash

    Ah,the irony – A person who wants to take the phobia out of Islamophobia wants to put phobia into Hindu to make Hinduphobia.
    Positive bias? Seriously??? By your logic, shouldn’t Muslims be scrutinized more at airports and other places because there were terrorist attacks caused by (hold your breath) Muslims. But in those cases, you want to “take the phobia out of Islamophobia”.
    Anyway, well done Sir. All those madrassa training is finally paying off – one rule for muslims, another for non-muslims.

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  • Don Quixote

    I suppose that after they pass this “Communal Violence Bill 2011″, the government will be hard-pressed to find something even more demonstrative of their zeal for minority rights to keep the vote bank – perhaps a “blasphemy law”. Mr. Zia Haq who aspires to higher things (as per his preamble) may even be a minister in the government by that time (for his services to the congress party) and could see the implementation of such a law. Then India and Pakistan would have something in common – a law created by people with very similar names!!

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  • S chadha

    The problem is thatbthe Hindus are not united or demanding as the other minorities. All other communities know this as well as the politicians -to call thehindus as a majority community is fallacious -when the Hindus regardless of caste , creed , denomination are united then all problems wil end -aunited community can face any challenge . These kind of laws are made with impunity as the powers ton be know that they wil!be able to divide the Hindus , and Hindus themselves wil not be a monolithic bloc in opposing it ?
    Regarding the Muslims I must say that in Sudan there was south Sudan /Christian and north Sudan /Muslim -now there is partition after 25 years of civil war .similarlyeurope with a sizable minority of Muslims they are pressing agaist the body politic with thir demands , in Egypt recently there are clashes between Christians and Muslims , –see all overbite world and you see the result of Muslim intransigence . In India we have many godhras -it wil be informative to see how many riots were engineered by Muslims . Even the Mumbai riots were because of Muslims killing Hindus in the suburbs. I know of a incident in dhanu recently where the hindushopkeepers called for a bandh to protest against the change of a ganapati procession march -the two Muslim shopkeepers refused to join and in the argument that followed there was a cry from a local mosque that Islam was in danger -about 100well armed Muslims with swords collected in 5minutes . Where did thevswords come from ?
    The need of the hour is for Hindus to unite en bloc -if that is the case and we are a big electoral bloc then our majority will be a real , effective majority -otherwise we wil be slowly Tampered with by politicians in alignment with the minority . Once that happens the soul of India , it’s essence which is centuries old Hindu culture will be destroyed

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  • abhinav

    Will this bill help in making shelters for Amarnath yatra?

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  • Saurabh

    So if 60 karsevaks burned alive Indian penal code with no effect . But if majority gets angry and is on a rampage Cummunal violence bill to save them . Chitt main jita patt tu hara !!! badhiya hai bahut badhiya !

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  • mgd

    Every Hindu caste is a minority

    Every Hindu caste and sub-caste has its own unique religious customs and traditions. As such, every Hindu caste is a minority in the national context. The definition of ‘minority’ as appearing in the constitution needs to be amplified so as to include every Hindu caste and sub-caste. Once that is done, Hindus will welcome this bill as they too will constitute a ‘group’ as envisaged in this bill.

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  • prashant v poojari

    This bill is nothing but to get a clear vote from the muslims ,congress knows hindus will never unite incase of voting rights,so make muslims happy anyhow , anyway congress is out of publics good will ,so they will try anything to be in power, so hindus be ready for the crisis same like british rule, good luck hinus . jai hind

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  • Paltu

    It was the comments which provoked me to join your bandwagon.

    Just have this to say “Great Indian Hypocrisy” at its best. Who started, how it was started is important not the innocent butchered. What one politician said “Kriya ki Pratikriya” an eye for an eye that is how democracy works. Very true sir, I am living and waiting for that “experiment” as quoted by some other politician, which consumes me. Bill or no bill things are not going to change for me

    P.S.
    Read somwhere history of Nazi Party very nationalist, loyal, had disciplined and strong cadre base didnt sound familiar.

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  • rbharti222

    Is there any such law in other countries, where hindus are in minority? In my opinion this is just a case of Congress being more protective towards its vote bank. Passing of this bill by the UPA Govt. will certainly strengthen its roots in some particular minorities.

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