After Laden: Now, eliminate jihad’s causes



Osama bin Laden’s death must be weighted against what conditioned – and continues to condition — global jihad. Or else, America’s jubilation over the death of its Most Wanted may be short-lived.

The question everybody is asking now is: are we done and is the world safe? 9/11 – however traumatizing – was just one among many bloody manifestations of global jihad. But since it spectacularly struck at America’s pride, a sense of national closure has come about with bin Laden’s fall.

That thousands subscribed to one man’s resolve of purging Western tutelage from Muslim lands ought not to be brushed aside, though Western policies cannot be considered to be the sole reason for jihadism. Nonetheless, an unjust world order did serve as a necessary condition that shaped jihad in the 10 years before and after 9/11.

In The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer winning biography of 9/11, Lawrence Wright sifts through Islamist extremism and finds at its bottom a “sense of deep humiliation”.

Arab states’ own lack of capacity to give their citizens a sense of purpose and hope, and unstable regimes fuelling nationalist jihadi insurgencies would all coalesce into a sweeping global form.

Ultimately, Osama bin Laden was not dodging drones in mountain caves but passing days in bucolic retirement – much like an ageing business tycoon in his idyllic retreat. His empire was built, its core philosophy permanently etched, and its ranks staffed with ruthlessly efficient personnel.

Therefore, at the time he was taken down by US Navy SEALS, bin Laden was the chief mentor of a global enterprise that no longer required his hand-holding.

A look at global jihad’s current structure should sober us down. Laden’s harvest had ripened into rich pickings: al Qaida in the Arab Peninsular or AQAP, based in Yemen, al Qaida in Iraq or AQIR and al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb or AQIM, based in north Africa.

Slaughtering of innocents, in itself, was never the goal, but it served as the means to achieve the goal of humbling the West. But because bin Laden failed to achieve any of his avowed goals, his means would become the end. The only thing to be achieved was the blood of innocents. That is why this was no jihad; nothing that could be validated even by bin Laden’s own theological reasoning. If this was jihad, it was flawed to the very hilt.

Rather than shrink Western presence, bin Laden only provoked more interventions, including the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pro-Western Islamic regimes, which Laden wanted to overthrow, would eventually be shaken not by his violent ideology, but by civilian uprisings. People would crave not for a Caliphate but for democracy.

Laden probably was aware that in his Holy War, there was no reasonable degree of success assured — a key historical requirement of jihad.

However, bin Laden’s death will do nothing to end the jihad he institutionalized. Global jihad’s end will be made possible as much by a relentless pursuit of terrorism as by addressing its root causes.

Peace between Israel and Palestine, stability of Muslim countries, from Syria to Yemen, US withdrawal from Afghanistan, tackling of Pakistan’s duplicitous military and resolving the Kashmir issue are some tasks ahead. And many of these issues are tangled. Tackling Iran, for example, would require some positive development in Palestine.

The Security Council, in its statement on bin Laden’s death, did touch upon this crucial aspect. Welcoming bin Laden’s death, Ambassador Gérard Araud of France, which holds the rotating Security Council presidency, read out a presidential statement that said: “[t]hat terrorism will not be defeated by military force, law enforcement measures and intelligence operations alone, and can only be defeated by a sustained and comprehensive approach involving the active participation and collaboration of all States, and relevant international and regional organizations and civil society to address the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism and to impede, impair, isolate and incapacitate the terrorist threat.”

A just world order is not as difficult to achieve as is often thought. The mechanism already exists in the United Nations. It just needs global will, sincerity and honesty that international politics lacks.

To jihadis, the present world order will never make sense. Like it or not, a jihadi will never be able to understand why he is a “terrorist”, while a head of state isn’t — even if the latter’s actions lead to civilians deaths.

Hobbes was right to argue for public reason over private reason. The world, according to the Hobbesian legal framework, cannot function if everyone relies on “his own individualistic mode of reasoning”, i.e. if everyone starts validating his judgement over others. If so, he warned in the Leviathan, life will be “nasty, brutish and short”.

So, Hobbes said we must submit to a “sovereign authority”. But Locke famously argues against it, saying such an unconstrained authority would only create a “monster”.

The underlying dynamics of jihad too are about one bloc’s assertion of authority and another bloc’s rejection of it (as the monster).

It will take a remedy of this situation before the world can dream of the last jihadi, much like bin Laden on his horse, fading away into the mountains.

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  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Zia, some very nice bits in your article. And as usual, some terrible apologies for jihadists-

    1. In his will, Osama forbade his sons from joining al-queada or to fight on the frontline. But when it came to miserable Mohd Atta and his pals, and to thousands indoctrinated to be suicide bombers the world over- ON OSAMA’S EXHORTATIONS- sure, that was all right.

    2. I am fed upto the gills of a 40 mile ? stretch of land called Palestine holding the world hostage. Ummah, my foot. There are worse injustices in the world from Rwanda to Tibet, Palestine does not justify bloodcurdling murder elsewhere.

    In one of my heated discussions with a hothead muslim family friend here in Yorkshire- who was moaning about the whole world out to get ‘us muslims’ and about atrocities in Palestine- I remarked – to tere pita shri ka kya jaata hai. Tune thekha ley rakha hai poorey ummeh ka ?

    His parents loved the seekh I imparted. Unfortrunately, the hothead was too radicalised. goes around with a long furry beard and no moustache and then wonders why his career has stalled as compared to his moderate cousins.

    Enough for now, will be back later.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    happy to translate if Ashish, Gopi, Hegde or any of the other non hindi speakers want- ‘..to tere pita shri ka kya jaata hai. Tune thekha ley rakha hai poorey ummeh ka ?

    But maybe the fun will be lost in the translation

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Doc Misra,
    I am entirely at home in precisely that kind of Hindi :)

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish.We the people , who are unable to write elegant prose, eagerly awaiting your response to the “contentious” issue raised by you DOST now in a mask called Ravi., Now that you have had your leisurly lunch , which presumably had Dum Pukht or butter Chicken or is it all firingee with salmon roulade and navarin of lamb.

    RajX Reply:

    Mishra ji, your story about a non arab Muslim moaning about Palestine is a very common one. I have also come across such people. The Arab imperialistic influence network had made sure that every Muslim passes the Palestine acid test where there is only one answer to the palestine question. There is a good explanation of what drives the “world against us” mindset of many Muslims including worldly Muslims like our Zia Haq who should know better. Disparate and unconnected issues facing Muslims in many parts of the world are taken out of their context and put in a single basket and a tenuous connection is made with the west , zionists and other non Islamic entities. For example, people may take the Kashmir issue out of it’s context and claim that non Muslim entities like the west and Israel are assisting India in persecuting and oppressing the innocent Kashmiri muslims. This kind of logic may sound very convincing to many Muslims when Kashmir, Palestine ,Iraq,Afghanistan are connected together and a common set of enemies are identified. Even our Zia has the same attitude even though I m assuming that he had a secular education. The Arab influence network is very very strong .

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Rajx,

    You have analysed it perfectly. The propoganda of Arabs and their strong network
    has created such a situation that inteligent people like Zia Al Haq also have fallen for this
    propganda.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    mishra i dont agree any of ur point.zias article is very good.what u are saying is wrong.u dont understand the feelings of muslims with jerusalam.atrocities on palestanian is another thing.it is if
    some muslim/christian ruler want to occupy benaras and try to change its face.
    solving the problem of palestine is duty of world power.ossamas call was heard by ummah because
    as it is needed.balkans we did not start the war. iraq we did not start the war.no afghan was in sept11 plane.pakistan was made jihadi by reagen.
    where we are doing jihad.ossama was on run.remaining leadership is on run.they hiding.have no support from even talibans.
    but jihad will continue.inlatin america there is no islam but they are also doing jihad against american exploitation same as muslims are doing in middle east it is human.
    misra intellectual gundaaism and spiritual fascism don not yield any result.
    dont compare rwanda with palestine.perpetuators of rwanda voilence are in hague.while murderers of innocents plaetanians are getting welcome in white house.
    double standards.this also shows u have pathological hatred against muslims.hence dont dicuss this topic again.
    if u will keep ummah on ur foot(which u cannot)ummah will keep u on their foot.

    aaj lagta hai pee zyada lee hai.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    you understand the feeling because you are a convert to Islam?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    yes then other should not comment on something which he dont understand at all.even european has feelings for gaza refugees.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    People who put Ummah over country may find by experience that they end up having neither. I doubt if your arabized mind will understand what I just said.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ummah is word created created by zoinists and repeated by brhmnst to spread hatred and voilence.everybody is after his interest.brother kill brother.only for 30-40%increase in salary
    hindus are linning in front of saudi embassy.muslims are linning in front of american embassy.all alqaeda terorist were caught by pakistanis.ossama and his remaining members of gang cannot have legal resident in any of muslim countries.where is ummah.
    but war on terrorism is war on muslims started zoinists to occupy their land and natural resources.they want ummah to unite so that qawwalee can go in full form.that is why shahrukh was unclothed at newyork and salman is afraid to go.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    A GOOD ARTICLE BY A JEW,Without bringing into question the excessive evidence that indicates bin Laden was in the employ of the CIA, the crucial point is that he was used in an attempt to radicalize a sufficient segment of the Islamic world, with the aim of fomenting a “Clash of Civilization”, and not a War on Terror, but more properly, a War on Islam.

    Whatever you say about bin Laden’s involvement in this affair, the fact is, the strategy has failed. And the reason why is this: Much of the Muslim world shares the grievances of bin Laden, with regards to the Neocolonial practices that maintain despotic puppet rulers in the Middle East in order to pillage there, and America’s unconditional support for Israeli barbarity, often acting by proxy for Israel’s interests.

    The powers-that-be thought they could exploit these sentiments to their advantage, by using bin Laden as the Pied Piper to violent reaction against the “Crusaders”, which could then be used to escalate the confrontation with the Islamic World.

    The problem with their strategy is that, while Islam derives from the same Judaeo-Christian tradition found in the West, Islam nevertheless has its own unique characteristics, most exemplified by the extraordinarily rich legal tradition, which provides very strict rules for pronouncing rulings, in Islam called Fatwas.

    On the whole, this tradition is what is called “Shariah”. But the true tradition is not the same as the one vilified in the Western media. That one is Wahhabism, and that’s the point.

    If Muslims had merely returned to their traditional legal sources, they would have seen that bin Laden’s tactics blatantly violated Islam’s most sacred principles, and instead found a much more enlightened approach to dealing with the current problems beleaguering the Muslims world.

    But again, that’s the point. The West, primarily Britain and the US, have made concerted efforts over the last few centuries to distance Muslims from their true legal tradition, precisely for this purpose. This started in the 18th century, with the creation of the fanatical Wahhabi sect of Saudi Arabia, whose very basis was the rejection of the traditional approach to the Shariah.

    This was followed at the turn of the 20th century with the proliferation of Scottish Rite Freemasonry in Egypt, by way of an agent named Jamal ud Din al Afghani, who created the Salafi “reform” movement. From Salafism came the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been in the employ of the CIA ever since.

    Since, the two movements, Wahhabism and Salafism, have become indistinguishable, with Saudi Arabia largely arranging for the financing of the CIA’s covert strategies involving the Muslim Brotherhood. The most recent being the war in Afghanistan.

    So while many Muslims initially may have sympathized with bin Laden’s struggle, growing worldwide criticism of this tactics also forced Muslims to reassess him. “Jihad” was already a volatile subject in Islam, but an honest appraisal was now necessary.

    And the answers were enlightening, and also exposed the clear danger facing the Islamic world. Which is the conspiracy to distance the Muslims from their true heritage. Because, according to Islamic law, not only can women, children and the elderly not be harmed, but neither can religious structures like Churches and Synaguoges, nor even the natural environment, as even trees are to be preserved.

    The propagandists for terror have attempted to provide various weak justifications, but the clear fact is that Islam prescribes self-defence, but only against an armed aggressor. If an enemy turns from battle, he cannot be pursued.

    So there is no legal justification whatsoever for the killing of innocent civilians. Rather, it is contrary to the principles of Islam, and more importantly, it’s very message. In fact, traditionally, even the use of bombs, or their equivalent, was discouraged, as their destruction was deemed too indiscriminate.

    In effect, the legitimacy of bin Laden’s tactics in Islam is a legal issue, pure and simple. And a clear one at that. And as a result, polls have shown that support for al Quaeda, suicide bombings and other acts of terror among Muslims has fallen drastically since 9/11.

    Ultimately, the rise of bin Laden has forced the Muslims to realize that their grievances are nevertheless legitimate, but that there are more constructive and humane ways of pursuing their correction, rather than resorting to barbaric acts of cruelty, which in the end, only serve the interests of their enemies.

    David Livingstone’s blog
    Comments

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    The countries which consider themselves as Islamic are the weakest societies in the world. Why would anyone want to go to war with Islam to handle these countries? It makes more sense for the west to go to war with the Chinese by bashing communism or Buddhism. Haha.another gem from tejinder also known as Ali baba.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    it is better to hit easy targets and win than to have direct fight wit strong.muslim countries are targetted because of their natural resources.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    And they are weak because of arabization

  • Gopi Thomas

    Zia is an apologist for jehadis.

    There is no humiliation that demands the death of innocent people.

    And what is “Muslim lands”? Under that theory, should India expell all Muslims and peple belonging toother religions? Countries get invded, gt anexed..it has happened from time immemorial, it will continu to happen.

    The Salafi killing of Shia, Sufi, Ahmadiya etc in Pakistan ,a nd in other places – what does it have to do with the “western tutelege in Muslim lands”

    The “pilgrimage” of rich Muslim kids from kerala to Kashmir and die from the encountrs with our Jawans – what does it have to do with humiliation of Muslims.. The chopping off of the hands of a Christian professor in kerala — what does it have to do with humiliation of plestinians in west bank?

    No other ountry is going to go out of its way to “please” these jehadists. Ech country-, Pakistan, yemen, Saudi Arbia etc has to take care of its citizens, educate them, provide meaningful living opportunities.

    No country owes anything special to world muslims. Thesituation they find in is brought upon them by themselves. Thesolution is with them. Take care of their families, the community in which they live in, the country they live in, and do not worry about Umma. The false promise of Umma infusd by the radical mullahs in mosques across the world is creating the jehadis. With Osama’s killing, military and police everywhere (may be except Pakistan) are going to crush these guys.

    Let us hope the “Arab spring” is a real “spring” for all in general, and Arab Muslims in particular.

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    Amen, Gopi Sir, you and mishraji write brill.
    you both also sound angry about this ummah shit. My abba says his biggest umma is our factory, and his extended family includes the 80 people we employ, 80% of whom are not muslims. THIS IS OUR WORLD, one member of our family always sleeps in Bhiwadi while the rest commute from Gurgaon

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Rizwan, that’s a healthy definition of ummah and all power to for believing in that. The ummah which a lot of Muslims believe in is more of a brotherhood based on religious affinity and is looked at as a cult by others. The only globally accepted cult is the cult of nationalism.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    More power to people like you.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    My above reply was for Rizwan

    Ravi Reply:

    “Zia is an apologist for jehadis.

    There is no humiliation that demands the death of innocent people.”

    Gopi if the above is true then would you join me in condemning the death of innocent people at the hands of the US Army, recently in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, By Bashar Al Assads’s army in Syria, By Coln Gaddafi’s Army in Libya, by Saddam Hussein in Iraq, by Turkish Army in Turkey, etc etc.

    So my friend whilst killing of innocent people is deplorable, it is not the exclusive domain of Jihadi Muslims.

    I 100% agree that the concept of Muslim lands does not stand up to any historical scrutiny. But would you not extend that to Hindu and Christian lands as well. If this is so then why the Catholic Church did its utmost to reverse the Islamic conquests of Spain.

    Sectarian killings in Pakistan pre-date the rise of Salafi movement. Mr Thatcher has today been given a bullet proof car, because the intelligence is forecasting resurgence in Republican violence.

    I share you hope

    “Let us hope the “Arab spring” is a real “spring” for all in general, and Arab Muslims in particular.”

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Dear Ravi,
    I fully intended to post today; but the atmosphere in this blog is “surcharged” enough for me to fear getting derailed into mindless side-battles. I hope things will improve in a couple of days.
    I will only say this for today:
    All violence is deplorable, especially those that lead to loss of lives.
    A modern nation state is a power structure; in a democracy, it reflects the aspirations of the majority and in a autocracy, that of the ruling elite. Good or bad, this is the way we have chosen to live. Any violence that threatens the basis of the nation states will be the “baser” violence and violence that the state uses will always garner the larger share of sympathy.
    Why does Islamic terrorism scare me? It does so, because of the knwoledge that it is largely “Hanumanic” in nature- biwi aur kisi ki, Raja au kisi ka, poonchh mein aag lagake bhaga kaun? Main, Hanuman! So, some grievance, real or imaginary for someone in Yemen or Sudan can motivate someone to kill me in Delhi.

    @Gopi,
    Yes. Agree.
    Another point I would like to make is, when Uncle Sam does something, you can at least relate it to his sense of self interest and be able to deal with it. When someone dies in Pakistan because some mad publicity hound tries to burn the Quran in US, I am unable to understand or even anticipate it. It could be me.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I would not worry about side battles. You have every right to make your points.

    I completely understand that a Nation State is authorised by us to fight our battles on our behalf. No issues with that at theoretical level. However, as I am sure you are aware, that such mandate is often politically and cynically exploited. Britain went to war with Iraq when poll after poll suggested that the British public were not behind our government’s decision.

    This creates a grey area between legitimacy and illegitimacy. Issues become matters of opinions rather that abject truth and or a lie.

    This is where unauthorised Hanumanistic violence takes its roots.

    If some of the analysts are to be believed then both Al Qiada and the Taliban have no difficulty in raising funds in the rich middle east countries, with the money comes some measure of mandate and assumed legitimacy.

    So in a broad brush strokes kind of way you are perfectly correct but at nuances level things become blurred.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    Oh, I do not doubt the “broad” nature of my post. If I could write a 100 word definitive text on “what ails the Muslim” or “why Islamophobia is grounded in reality”.. I would be the toast of the seminar circuit.
    I am just an engineer, a poor one at that, a blot on the great university that allowed me in and suffered me for 4 years. But, like all engineers, I seek solace in modeling. And, I will admit, this one is hugely complicated.
    This is a multiplayer game and the interpretations are many.
    The one I have seen being pushed in this blog since its first post is: “Muslims do not need to change; all problems are imaginary and like beauty, lie in the eyes of the beholder. Learn to appreciate Islam, seek meanings into the Text for solutions to modern problems and be dazzled by the elegance and beauty of its prescriptions. Oh, and by the way, Quran is immutable- like the laws of motion or thermodynamics are.”
    I see no attempt to introspect, no emphasis on duties and responsibilities – only on rights. I see no attempt to talk of issues nearer home and turn the spotlight on to bread and butter issues and how the ante-diluvian stance of the clergy and the absence of real leadership in tune with modern needs and aspirations is hurting Muslims in India.
    When the rights of a community are predominantly defined by its right to worship, it is time to worry. Because, what the folks do not realise is that it will be possible to fob them off with cheap trinkets – Urdu in school, Madrassa education equivalence to CBSE, right to wear a burqa or a beard of a certain length and so on and continue to deny them the substantive bread and butter concessions.
    Muslims in India have fallen behind on all socio economic indicators- under Congress governments of 60 years. The RSS, much as I laugh at them, did not keep them down. The intelligentsia – the scribes, the JNU, DU, D-School types are all secular liberals. Show me one RSS type that has infiltrated the higher reaches of academia- either in teaching or research or curriculum development. What have they achieved for Muslims? Except to accentuate the divide and emphasise a polemic where right to worship and lead a certain way of life is not only the most important thing, it is the only thing.
    The solution does not lie in erecting walls or strengthening existing walls. It does not lie in religious education or indeed in religion. It lies in aggressive incentives for mixed upbringing, schooling and driving the concept of “one India” and nation above all.
    Why do I oppose your and Tajender’s periodic quoting of the injustices of the Hindu society?
    I submit that those paradigms are dated to understand the India of today. And, they tend to ignore the massive churn that is happening, largely driven by urbanization, women’s education and so on.
    I had an employee who hailed from a town in UP, uses only her first name, has a husband in a different town and used to commute by bus 40km one way every day to come to work. This is the new India.
    I am pained at the inability of the Muslim leadership to see this zeitgeist. The Dalits suffered for centuries but in a couple of generations have made significant strides. Tajender and you can go blue in the face talking about the Devadasis and quote from Periyar but, the fact remains that the Dalits are today winning in all areas. They are not doing it because they have Dalit schools, Dalit curriculum and so on. They are doing so by seeking to assimilate with the larger society.
    If you have read this far, I admire you. I seek you indulgence for one more paragraph and then I will take a break. Let me seek to answer in a little more detail about what I think is really scary about Islamic Terrorism.
    The scary bit is really in the fact that even educated Muslims will brook no discussion on the Quran or the fact that it needs surgery. Let there be a King James Version of the Quran. Let only the goody goody bits be taught, if at all it needs to be. Of course, I would rather they taught no religion at all- like most Hindus don’t.
    So, in the hands of ill-educated Mullas, the Quran can be deadly weapon. On one hand you say, it is immutable- not a word can be changed- and then you will have folks who will quote precisely those chapters and those verses that suit them.
    Secondly, as Rizwan said, the Umma is a scary concept- Inequities, injustices exist in all parts of the world. But, when someone starts making common cause on the basis of religion, it is a hugely destabilizing force.

    shan Reply:

    Read the long awaited response to the” contentious”remarks by Ravi.
    This is froth and no substance , a drivel of the first order.The kind you have heard in Nuremberg Rallies.Lecturing is onething analysis is another, and ignorance is at the root of it all.
    First pardon me being pedantic. A small correction. Laws of motion are not immutable . in quantum world they do not hold water. A small example. Suppose you are travelling in bullet train 150miles per /hr.Your kids rather bored , get hold of a rubber ball and throw the ball from one end to the other end of the compartment. To you the ball will be say travelling at 40mile/hr , to an observer outside the train it is 150 mile /hr or more.(Not bad for a surgeon)
    next is state of the muslim world.
    It aint easy , just like nothing is staightforward in this world.
    first of all, who are muslims , MOST OF THEM ARE CONVERTS and their lies some of the problem , the deracination.
    Lets try to analyse why muslim world is different.
    To start with, keep in mind this is the YOUNGEST RELIGION , and it had its EMPIRE like Holy Roman empire and all its obscurantism and corruption. This empire folded only 70 odd yrs ago , and I AM TALKING ABOUT OTTOMAN EMPIRE.Most of the muslim universe was a franchise of the ottoman rulers , this include saudi , and middle east and north africa and parts of eastern europe. Now every country on planet earth had the vice like grip of religion, europe managed to break free , because of protestant movement , which was again a byproduct of german nationalism rising against poppery.
    Next is the CURSE OF BLACK GOLD. If you have an outstandingly beautiful daughter , MAWALIS(read west mainly US/UK/FRANCE) will constantly prey on your daughter. Also if my dad left me couple of crores , say 100 will do , I will have no incentive to study anything , and certainly not of all the subjects medicine. I WOULD DO WHAT SIDHARTH MALLAYA is doing , fooling around.
    Same with these gulfdoms , what incentive do they have.
    I have recommended several times on this blog , read the book THE ARABS by Eugene Rogan.
    Reading is the first step towards understanding
    That Hindus took a different trajectory to muslims is because they wanted to get rid of the yoke of muslim rule , thus embraced the English rule with open arms , also hindus are not a congregational religion and also there was no mortgaging of national interest to the high priest of mecca . There are certain things , that are uncanilly similar in Holy Roman empire and islam.
    Romans exploited the rest of europe with their version of quom and selling scrolls from Rome .
    They still do it , Vatican is the last word .same with Islam , must visit mecca once in your lifetime etc.
    What islam needs is an intellectual onslaught on the five pillars and JUST FREEDOM TO EXPRESS AND OFFEND and the rest will automatically follow.

    tajender Reply:

    shan u wrote nice i liked it,

    There are certain things , that are uncanilly similar in Holy Roman empire and islam.
    Romans exploited the rest of europe with their version of quom and selling scrolls from Rome .

    ek mat yatra ki bheed ko indira lead kar rahee thee.sare hindu ek ho ka nara 100 years before ek bengali brhmn ne diya tha,arya samaj wale sadkon par khade ho ke muslims ko abuse karte the.
    muslim baiting is national agenda.why modi is sitting on cm chair even after mascaring
    2000 muslims.
    muslims are not interested in education as they are descriminated in jobs.dalit have quota
    so they study.get quota for us we too will study.will surpass u as we are more intelligent than.u are talking of finishing the islam not improving the situation of muslims.and bring then them into main stream of muslim society.

    indonesia is 1/6of india has bigger conomy than india providing employment to thousands of indians.

    shan Reply:

    This business of presuming that just because I am elected ,I have been given carte blanche
    to do whatever I please. That becomes OPPRESSION BY MAJORITY. In case of USA , at least there was a vote in the senate ,AND OBAMA VOTED AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR, but in UK , no such thing took place in the mother of all democracy

    RajX Reply:

    “liberal Hindu” ravi, my condolences on your guru Osama turning into fish food. But the fight goes on as Zia has said. Its too sad that the valiant Islamic warrior did not put up a fight. Maybe the Americans were too quick for this Arab to handle.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    RajX

    My condoncles to your parents for the advanced nature of your brain cancer.

    It will be a sad day, when FASCIST HINDU FUNDO grows up.

    Johnson & Johnson’s shares will nose dive.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ravi-

    Yes, I deplore innocents’ killings. But I also accept some killings, such as the collateral damage by drone attacks, as an unavoidable aspect. But I am with you on Iraq.

    But people like you are committing a huge mistake by putting a cause/effect on Jehadis. Jehadis should be crushed, eliminated.

    Almost all the people all over the world supported the Egyptian students and Tunisians and similar protest marches against their governments. Those children did not look and act different from any other children. God was not an active ingredient (may be He witnesed), theyw ere in jeans and tees, texting , no big beard… They gave the world another different and quite positive look at Muslims, much different from the “jehadi” perspectives of last so many years.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    may be except Pakistan) GOPI BHAI the entire alqaida membership is caught by pakistan police and military.not by americans or indians.TOTALLING AROUND 100.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Dude, you say the most funny things. Even though it’s mostly fiction, you state it as if it is the unvarnished truth. Bravo! You are a good entertainer.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    In the last blog I made a statement, which suggested that our present love of Rama is a more recent phenomenon, and was encouraged by the RSS. I based my opinion on the following.

    “The god-hero Rama has always been important in RSS iconography. Hedgewar deliberately inaugurated the organization on the day when Rama is supposed to have defeated Ravana in the epic contest between good and evil. …….Rama appears in the symbolism of the organization family under a variety of aspects: a pure baby, an angry warrior fighting in a hostile universe, a king presiding over an ideal era of prosperity and morality.

    In the process oa appropriating Rama as party/organization symbol, the organization transformed the traditional iconography of Rama in various ways. First, they turned him into the central god in the rntirety of the Hindu religion for the entire nation. This had not been the case formerly: Rama was little known in the south, and in some regions he was not even an admired figure. Through this process of transformation the RSS and other groups were in effect making Hinduism more monotheistic – ‘semiticizing it.’ As this development is sometimes described. There were good reasons for a movement bent on a national unity to try to rein in the chaotic and colourful many-sidedness of traditional Hinduism, in which, as in ancient Greek religion, worship is highly polymorphous, local, and syncretistic. Just as the British had to invent a fiction of Hindu law to codify civil law for all Hindus in a uniform way, so too the right had to invent a fictional Hinduism, very different from its roots.

    From: The Clash Within, pages 171, 172, Martha C Nussabaum.

    Let the abuse begin.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    So, what does this Rama have to do with creating jehadis in Pakistan and elsewhere/

    What is your purpose?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Very good question. I guess you are not acquainted with the context and hence your bemusement.

    So allow me to re-build the context.

    About 3 blogs ago Rajeev and I engaged in a mindless tirade of abuses. During that several hundred uncontrolled volleys were fired and in one of them I used a bad word in realtion to Lord Rama.

    Rizwan, when asked YESTERDAY by Balwinder to sit as my character judge, condemned me for the said profanity.

    I admitted my inelegance, and made another statement, S Singh then challenged the statement and on that basis, he changed my nationality to that of a Pakistani.

    So what I have posted above is the original source upon which I based the statement I made.

    Now that you have the context, feel free to join in the chorus of condemnation.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Since this is “repost season”, let me repost the comment I had posted on the previous blog
    Ashish Reply:
    May 9th, 2011 at 12:31 am

    Ravi,
    Let me lead the abuse.
    I think Martha N (and by extension you, since you quote her verbatim), ascribe farsightedness and intelligence to the chaddiwalas they did not possess, do not possess and probably never will.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    If you intended to abuse me then you have let you manners dilute your efforts.

    The Khaki Nikkar Wallahs, particularly those with Walrus mustachios are cleverer than you give them credit here.

    I for one would not like to under-estimate them.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    I submit that using the RSS bogeyman is dated paradigm.
    The realities in modern India are different. Show me what the RSS have achieved by nature of lasting influence in any sphere that matters. Have they managed to drive Muslims away from a single sphere, even assuming that is their stated aim, which I contest.
    As a contrast, see what Muslims in Kashmir have achieved:
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Why-Pandits-arent-returning-to-roots/articleshow/8201485.cms

    shan Reply:

    @Rashish
    (Dost) dost na raha, pyar pyar na raha , RSS ke liye, humey tera aitbaar na raha

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Well in that case we are on different sides of this divide.

    There are large areas of Ahmadabad, where the demography has significantly changed due to the recent RSS inspired riots.

    Whilst nothing will give me greater pleasure than to see Kashmir Pundits restored to their former homes, I am not going to excuse the RSS simple because Muslims are bad.

    RSS’s aim is not to drive out Muslims from India, their aim is to convert India into a HINDU India in which minorities live as second class citizens.

    Dost meri gham khwari mein pharmain gey kya
    Zakham ke bharne talak, nakoon bhard na ayen gey kya

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    you misunderstand. Far be it from me to posit one murder is better than the other.

    I only wish to make a point that for all the alleged RSS shennanigans, the results have not been obtained.
    Text books have not been changed, the article 370 remains in force, ICHR, ICMR, JNU… they continue as they were.. liberal secular bastions.
    I do not think Hedgewar or Golwalkar represent the modern RSS any more than Gandhi or Nehru’s thoughts drive the Congress.

    Anyway, this is a side discussion. My magnum opus :D in response to you is posted awaiting your feedback.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I am sorry, I have decided to leave this mehfil.

    Whilst I am able to discuss the points you make, I have long outstayed my welcome here and I am not the kind who either needs to do or does that.

    Teri duniya mein jinay sey to behtar hai ki mar jayen
    Woh hi aanson, wohi Aahen, Wohi ghum hai jidhar jayen.

    Nothing personal. You are not among those that have hounded me out.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    I am sorry to see you go. We may not have agreed but, have agreed to disagree. It has been a pleasure.
    Should you ever wish to connect, drop me a note on my personal blog http://eastdelhicitizen.wordpress.com
    adios

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ashish,
    I never battled with anybody but exposed others. As far as Syed is concerned, he is a nice chap who agreed that Kaaba too is occupied site.
    I don’t try to sound politically correct as is the practice here. A small group of people have made a panchayat here who decide the merits of other’s participation. It is a free forum that should allow all kinds of voices from all kinds of people including you, Ravi and Ram Autar.
    If we have no difference then what is the big idea behind any debate. The only requirement is that a person should not fake his identity as both Ram Autar and Ravi do all the time.

    You are one of the moderate voice who is sometimes judgemental but overall you have sobering effect on every discussion. I think you should continue to post.

  • Rizwan

    Not so easy Mr Ravi aka ISI agent aka as Shan’s kutta, u dont escape so easy. I had pasted something on the last blog which got lost as this new one started. hence- rpt-
    :::::::::::::::::::;

    Rizwan says:
    May 8, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    doc Mishraji, with due respect u r beginning to irritate me. u and others on this blog seem to be drawn to Ravi- he MAKES IMBECILIC STATEMENTS LIKE – Once again, I will take issue with the fact that Islamic terrorism is most feared all around the world. I do not feel it – and promptly you feel compelled to debate it.
    I a muslim say ravi’s statement is obsessively dangerously denialist- like Zaid Hamid after 2611- yeh sab Indian RAW ney karaya hai. Please mishraji, I respect you, but u do not know my quom, dude. 1% lives in denial and in an ether of putrid anti hinduism.
    For example, I STATED THAT RAVI HAD INSULTED THE HINDU GODS IN HIS ARGUMENT WITH RAJEEV LAST MONTH, and none of u hindus are moved. He is giggling, having evaded answering that question.
    wot’s it with u hindus????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    and my reply to above-
    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    balwinder paaji, you had chalenged my patriotism and my sense of fairness. The only reason I had not been harsh on RAVI is-
    - he is too vile and unstable, resorts to abuse
    - nice oldies like Ashish and Mishraji indulge him, ‘cos he is eloquent’

    Well, folks, enjoy his eloquence one last time-
    +++++++++++
    Ravi- Yes when exchanging abuses with Rajeev I did utter an obscenity against RAM. RAM the mythical God, which the RSS has imposed upon North Indian Hindus.
    ++++++++++++++
    I denounce this scumbag- RAVI- ISI AGENT and hope others will too

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rizwan

    I heard you and also stated that you were a sycophant and a scumbag.

    I am going nowhere and escaping to no where.

    It is you who has ignored Tajendar’s question as where were you when Rajeev was insulting your prophet as he and Shan frequently do so and you keep your trap shut.

    The reason you are a lopsided sycophant

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Maybe the “liberal Hindu” ravi is a traitor to india and the Muslim rizwan is a patriot. So in jihadi circles, it’s natural that patriots are considered as sychopants and traitors are considered as valiant warriors of Islam. I am sure that you also think that Abdul kalam is also a sychopant because he is well versed in Indian literature like Ramayana, mahabharatha and the Gita . Again, my condolence for the loss of your great Islamic warrior who unfortunately was too slow to put up a fight.

    shan Reply:

    @rajX, he was not too slow in one matter , getting a twenty six year girl as his fifth wife .
    also he was quick to dye his beard and given the haul of” shilajit” for his house , looks like he was indeed slow in action in another matter

    Ravi Reply:

    RajX

    Not sure what is the point you are trying to make with the exception of calling me a Muslim Pakistani.

    So for you any one who provides an opinion, which does not match with what you read in the RSS pamphlet or in Tarun Viajy’s blog is a Pakistani.

    You are sad.

    tajender Reply:

    Indian literature like Ramayana, mahabharatha and the Gita

    NEITHER HE KNOWS ANY THING NOR U KNOW.OTHERWISE U OR HE WILL NOT SAY THAT RAM WAS GOD,WHILE HE WAS KING.
    ramanaya was written by valmiki,an immigrant,raciaaly he was chamar,by profession he was a robber.most probably he came from egpyt as epic like this is found in their literature
    which can be seen(even now)in their temple.
    ram was popularized by nawab wajid ali shah.communalize by sangh parivar.

    THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO TEMPLE DEDICATED TO LORD RAMA ANYWHERE IN INDIA.

    tajender Reply:

    rizwan,
    correct this in hindu mythology and epic of ramaanaya,RAM IS KING NOT A GOD.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rizwan

    You repost, so will I.

    People who wish to escape do not avoid the accusation, they admit, explain and stay put.

    So Balwsinder de puttar and Gurgaon commuter.

    Here was my reply.

    Put that in your hookah and suck it.

    Ravi Reply:

    May 8th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Rizwan

    If there is any one here who is in denial and is an imbecile, then it is you. You are unable to analyse the underlying forces, which are responsible for terrorism. You are observing the symptoms rather than diagnosing the disease.

    Siraf marham lagane say zakham dheek nahin hoga.

    Yes when exchanging abuses with Rajeev I did utter an obscenity against RAM. RAM the mythical God, which the RSS has imposed upon North Indian Hindus.

    If you want a discussion on that then study the activities of the RSS, over the last 60 years with the aim of coalescing the Hindu community around a strong (one or two) Gods.

    My abuse, regrettable as it may be, is completely irrelevant, its hardly anything more than a measure of my temper at the time.

    Against my better judgement, I have a feeling that Shan’s assessment of you is correct. You indulge in school room politics.

    [Reply]

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    “” Rizwan

    If there is any one here who is in denial and is an imbecile, then it is you. You are unable to analyse the underlying forces, which are responsible for terrorism. You are observing the symptoms rather than diagnosing the disease”"

    Ravi is trying his best to convert Rizwan, but I am sure Rizwan is way too inteligent
    to fall in his trap.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    Convert him from what to what.

    From a jingoistic idiot to a thinking human being.

    Surely he can sort that out for himslef. After all he went to The Delhi Public School.

    Regards

    Ravi (I am a Pakistani you know)

    Ashish Reply:

    @Rizwan,
    if only you knew what a huge effort it takes to stop myself from saying, “there’s nothing wrong with us Hindus; it is you, Muslims :P
    So; I am an effing atheist- also a Hindu and don’t care what you or anyone say about any of our millions of gods- hey, if they are gods, they should be able to handle it, right? Come on, God, bring out your weapons- strike me dead, God! I am waiting!
    Let me also say, why I say I am a Hindu. I am a Hindu because, I can happily say all the above and still stay a Hindu- go figure.
    I recommend Chaturanga- a short novel in four parts- by Tagore; where the interplay between the atheist, rationalist, religious have been examined. Do us a favour, read it and probably you will understand why a Hindu can afford to be irreverent about his Gods.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rich Muslim kids from kerala to Kashmir

    it is one case not confirm whether right or wrong.this rss man is reapeating on blog again again to create hatred against muslims.like u talk of ummah.without knowing and seeing that nearly all muslim countries are fighting each other.
    why u defend modi who killed 2000 muslims to win elections.9 years have passed.he is still enjoying the fruits of his evil ness.nowhere anything like this can happen.in england cameron can not stay inpower if his associate is caught in organising fake encounters for money.why amit shah was granted bail.will this kindness be available to other indians.
    regarding chopping it was natural parivar would have copped him in hundred pieces.yes it has nothing to do with ummah or palestanian problem.

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    Tajendar ji..
    AAp ko 2000 hajar logon ka aakada kisne diya pahle fig sahi kijiye ..doosra aapka dard gujrati danga peediton ke liye to dukhta hai par jo lakhon pandit kashmir main maar diye gaye ya beghar kar diye unke liye kuch kyon nahi nikalta ….aaka darrd godhra train kand main jalkar marne valone ke liye nahi dukhta ..kya baat hai ……kabhi aapne soch hai ki duniya bhar main doosre ilm ya majahab ke logon ko ye log shanti se kyon nahi rahne dete hain abhi kal hi misra(egypt) main inhone isaion ya katle aam machaya …aisa kyon hai ki jahan ye majority main rahte hain vahan doorse logon ki zindagi doobhar ho jaati hai ..kripya karke is par bhi thodi roshni fenke …

    tajender Reply:

    indian if u have any greviences go to court our judiciary system is good.kashmiri pundits
    are going back slowly.they were removed by jagmohan not by muslims.all their houses and property is intact.even then if they have any problems like us they can go to court.
    but because of kashmiri pundits modi should not be tried through indian law is bullshit.

    using state police in money extraction bussines is also a big crime.he was also involve in this through amit shah.in this bussines he killed many people.why he should not pay for these heinous crimes.

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Ashish,

    I just love whatever you write. Always to the point – briliantly analyised and without
    using any crude language . Great . Keep it up.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Mohan Ramchandani,
    thank you.

  • shan

    This is an article written by a clever college student . he brings in Hobbs , Leviathan ,Locke for good measure, but leaves out other facets of English intellectual tradition.Lets enlighten Zia , England circa 1580
    A debate in cambridge university
    Marlowe-That the begining of religion was only to keep men in awe
    Earl of Oxford”Bible was only.. to hold men in obedience and was a man’s device”(In current day applies more to quoran-shan)
    Earl of Oxford-The blessed virgin made a fault ,and that joseph was a cuckold
    Marlowe-CHRIST WAS A ******* AND HIS MOTHER DISHONEST(you are reading it correct , and it happened in 1580)(Source Marlowe , by David Riggs , page 112)
    So this is english intellectual tradition , contrast this with FATWA EPIDEMIC IN ISLAMIC WORLD

    Bottom line is it has little to do with injustice LOT TO DO WITH IMPOTENCE
    Cleverly zia omits mentioning GRAVY TRAIN to pakistan by US for last sixty years, Five billion dollar aid to Egypt every year to keep a semblance of parity with israel
    As for injustice , HOW ABOUT RAPE OF BANGLADESHI WOMEN BY PAK SOLDIERS, was this also orchestrated by USA , for that matter public hanging in marketplace in Iraq , or the unneccasary invasion of kuwait.
    I don’t think America is that weak to be cowed down by a bunch of ragtag loonies.
    FAR MORE IMPORTANT IS THE INTROSPECTION IN ISLAMIC WORLD ,AS TO WHY THEY ARE A LAUGHING STOCK AMONGST COMITY OF NATIONS.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    HOW ABOUT RAPE OF BANGLADESHI WOMEN BY PAK SOLDIERS

    i remain with bengladeshis no one knows about this.this was fabrication to provide reason for attack.one bengladeshi advocate asked the list of 30 lacs killed.now he is in jail.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Tejender ROT IN HELL
    http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i am here sitting with 3 bengali chaps from pheni.i asked him did u ever see or know any bringna(raped women).he says no.i asked him did ur father told anything he says no.he says pathans were very good but punjabis were very harami.neverthless they were on run for 7 out of 9 months.when they will rape.
    when jews came from poland they were not knowing about holocaust.it is through the trial of eishman that fraud of holocaust was globalized through media.

  • tajender

    killing ossama costed america 30 trillion dollars.more than what they spent in second world war.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    I have this bad habit of needing to read fiction before going to sleep.. I shall not bother today.
    Good night :P

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    BBC: al Qaeda Does Not Exist.
    i dont want to write fiction.this is the estimate of an american economist.he also told that afghan has costed america more than second world war.war is going on from 10 yrs.

    read on u tube a bbc commentary that,

    BBC: al Qaeda Does Not Exist

    this was game to suck american money and kill christians.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    30 trillion? Wow. Man, you pull those numbers out of your arse like a magician. Maybe they train you to do that in the jihad factory.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    sorry it is 3.i read in hindi.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Auf Wiedersehen Pet

    Farmers market comes to Tonbridge Wells once every 4th Sunday of the month. Occasionally, under an exchange scheme, farmers from Germany join local farmers. Last Sunday was one such occasion.

    Yesterday the market was unusually crowded, local residents taking advantage of good weather and followed the inviting smell of sizzling frankfurters and hamburgers. Situated among, an over supply of food and farm produce stalls, was one that was dedicated to selling German books, records and DVDs. A plumpish Fräulein, attractive in a Germanic kind of way, manned this stall.

    The shoppers were mainly suburban English people, who had temporarily abandoned their habit of thronging to Waitrose and, were instead bargain hunting in the market.

    One absurdly dressed shopper stood out from the rest.

    An Indian man, conspicuously dressed as if he had just returned from the matinee show of the musical Caberet and had forgotten to take off his make-up,

    He was wearing Jackboots, a Oktoberfest LEDERHOSEN, a “made in Morocco” Borussia Mönchengladbach T-Shirt, topped by a SCRUB HAT.

    This odd combination of clothes, made this Indian man of medium height and dark complexion a centre of everyone’s attention. He walked with a camp gait, not seen since John Hurt perfected it in “The Naked Civil Servant”. He would take 3 long steps, stop and shift his weight on his right leg, limply park one hand on his hip, and then in a theatrical style point towards a car park and click a button.

    Some yards away a metallic pink BMW car with cream leather seats and walnut burr interior would flash its lights. This grotesque display of ostentation completed, he would smile, jerkily turn his head and goose-step towards the lone book and records stall.

    At the stall he flicked through the records section and picked out some Oompha music records which had such popular songs as The Alpine Bragger, Deutschmeister, Regiment’s March , Liechtensteiner Polka and Tyroler Waltz on them. In a loud voice he announced to all those in the market and the neighbouring county, “I like German Music you know” I am not like other Indians. My cousins are teaching at Harvard.

    Though prominently visible, he chose not to buy Gunther Grass’s The Tin Drum, Werner Herzog’s Making of Fitzcarraldo, and The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant by R W Fassbinder.

    As he left the stall, this jackbooted, LEDERHOSEN wearing Indian Surgeon, looked at the frauleine and said:

    Alvidaar Sen. Believing that all Germans are efficient and therefore must be distant cousins of Bengalis.

    And Fräulein replied: Auf Wiedersehen Pet

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    … when I grew up in Calcutta, I always knew :) that we were culturally closest to the French; make that French were culturally closest to us, Bongs.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    @GOPI THOMAS- love the way you have confirmed my absolute disgust with this umma ****, only your words were much better- ‘The “pilgrimage” of rich Muslim kids from kerala to Kashmir and die from the encounters with our Jawans – what does it have to do with humiliation of Muslims.. The chopping off of the hands of a Christian professor in kerala — what does it have to do with humiliation of Palestinians in west bank? ‘
    My feelings entirely Sir

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Ravi / ISI

    You hurl obscenities at Lord Ram, and when caught by our young Turk Rizwan, try and denigrate Bhagwan Ram’s position by quoting some foreigner.
    Maybe, Rizwan is right. Maybe we did ignore this very unpleasant side of yours, which surfaces periodically.
    Abusing someone on a blog is deeply unpleasant. Abusing someone’s God is filthy behaviour. You have both disappointed and disgusted me.
    Please do not say that xyz has said worse. As people say, you are a man of words- I therefore expected higher standards from you.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    dr saheb why all of u were silent when this(rajeev)son of a b1t..ch was abusing our prophet.through our religion we are prohibited not to attack any religious figure.regarding lord ram,no body knew of him in ayodhya before tulsidaas.
    he was popularized by nawab wajid ali shah.he started ramlila from baradari lucknow.krishna lila was too started by him.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    You know absolutely jack s h i t yet you intervene needlessly, so you will be slapped so be prepared for it.

    Your PHRUKING young TURK did not catch anything, he could not catch a fly sitting on your faeces had they been extracted by him. Rajeeve himself pointed out my indiscretions but none of you including your phrroking sodding turk. If he was so frooking smart then why has it taken him a month to point the frooking this abuse out.

    I am still waiting for the progeny of Turkish Hareem to reply to Tajendars accusation that he ignored Rajeeves similar abuse against his Prophet.

    Every one is aware of my unpleasant side. I told every one that I am an orphan and will abuse like one if some one abuses me.

    I can provide the sodding proof if you like.

    The reason you are surprised is because Y O U D O N O T R E A D A N Y O N E E L S E S R E S P O N S E S except your own.

    At least I have twice admitted my mistakes. Have you and any one else ever done that.

    Dr Mishar you know how to open your bowels and not your mind. You are a bigot.

    Every one here, men and women are of words, one expects higher standards from Shan and you as you have set your stall by your professions.

    He is a trollop and you are a bigot.

    The society expects higher standards of scholarship and decorum from you.

    Me I live in a Jhuggi in Pakistan as per a number of you. You have twice in the last month tried to engage with me under this misapprehension that I may be a Muslim from Pakistan. Your transparency is of Pilkington clarity.

    Harsh words indeed, if you want only pleasant words, you know what to do.

    Stay away from speculating on my Nationality, Sexuality, and any other ality.

    Read the points I makes, desist from knee-jerk jingoistic responses, and do not conclude if some is providing an alternative view that they either against you personally or are anti Hindu.

    Where were you when Rizwan accused me – twice – and then repeated again that I was “too anti Hindu” and not once did he substantiate it with any evidence. Poor blighter was hoping that you as his senior would pick it up, but then YOU DO NOT READ, do you now Dr Mishra??

    Life is not as simple as pro and anti hindu, Indian and pakistani. Grow up.

    You know what to do.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Disgusting creature. All that bile inside you has turned you into a poisonous creature spouting venom at well meaning folks like Mr. Mishra. You are a true son of maududi, a devils spawn. Nothing good will ever come out of people like you.

    [Reply]

  • RajX

    Zia is right to say that jihads cause has to be eliminated but that is not in the hands of non Muslims. It’s the responsibility of Muslims to teach their own community that radicalism has a blowback which will affect not just the radicals but the entire community. Solving palestine is not going to stop jihadism. The mental ailment of jihadism existed even before there was a state of Israel. It’s as old as Islam.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    u people have no awnser no knowledge dont know ground realities just jehadism maudidi etc.u

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Your ilk has no intellect because of arabization. The arabs have made you bow towards their lands and turned you into serfs. Cant blame you. You are just a tool. The guiding evil lies elsewhere.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    FOUTEZ LE CAMP VOUS LE PAKISTANAIS

    Every year around May,a group of french farmers along with book sellers sail form calais on a british invention called hovercraft. They are heading towards the port of Dover.Once in Dover , they disembark with their cars and vans and head west. They take the M2 and then join A2 , and at darenth interchange , take the M25 towards Heathrow. Their destination is Middlesex , more precisely Havelock Road , named after the famous sexologist Havelock Ellis. They have come to sell their wares in the town centre. None of the residents of Havelock Road pay any taxes , for they find it much convinient to leach the govt of all the generous social security benefits. However there are lot of hardworking anglosaxons at the outer fringe ,and they are expect to visit the fair. The roads have festoons and banners in french as well as english about the french food market.
    There are shops selling rustadon, saucisson a l’at Fume , another one specialising in cheese such as Camembert and Brie, radellete and fondue and roquefort and blue , the blue colour apparently due the bat droppings in the cave where the rocquefort cheese is left to mature.
    then there is Duck confit and the famous cassoulet , coc au vin , being sold in jars.
    there are some selling breads like bagette Campagne, Boule rustiques , Brioche Buerre
    and some selling confiture like Entremont comte and Confiture muses.
    English are never tired of cracking a joke or two about the french , but when it comes to food , they are beholden to the gastrnomique.
    One man stands out in this crowd.
    He is in his sixties , pot bellied , the height about few inches more than his waist.his scalphas more dandruff than hairs. He is wearing a green trousers and a green jacket . green seeems to be his favourite colour. He is sauntering idly , followed by four burqua clad lady and a dozen or so children of the age range 2-12.It is not possible to say anything about the age of the women in burqua for obvious reason.barring one. This was the last in the burqua brigade . She lifted her veil , and out shined an innocent face fresh frm the villages of pakistan.she was about seventeen.Perhaps she could not resist experiencing for herself this culture shock. One would have thought this girl was the daughter , but no , the pot belly shouted at her “Begum , apka burqua nichey utariye”
    The pot belly was carrying in one hand a book by Martha nessbaum on hinduism ,and a plastic carrier bag given free by Dimple Double glazing .The contents of this bag was revealed to the world ,much to the dissapointment of the pot belly. As it happened he was constantly looking back over his shoulders trying to keep an watch on the state of the burqua brigade. As expected he collided with a french girl of algerian origin . The pot bellied presumed she was a pakistani , just because she was wearing a green dress with a sprinkling of stars. First about the contents of the bag which was now all over the place.There was a packet of CIALIS tablet and a device called ASSET , by genesis medical . This asset is a vaccum suction device needed for his own assets were NON PERFORMING. In fact he told his doctors “they are limp and languid like the cold sausage in a supermarket shelf”
    The pot bellied gathered himself up and looked at the girl and said “Ye kuri tusi pataka, bismillah ye rahim , salam alle kum ”
    The girl replied FOUTEZ CAMP VOUS LE PAKISTANAIS

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This one kills two birds with one stone.

    Respect.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    doc mishra u the mannnn, rispecttttttt !!!!!!!!!!!! harsh words indeed on RAVI+ ISI
    very well said, shud be this blog’s code o conduct

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    indian cyber family-
    christians- Raju Kurien, Gopi Thomas
    Muslims- Syedbhai, riswan aka shahrukh, L Mirza, Shoeb
    Sikhs- S Singh, funny-balwinder
    ALL PATRIOTS
    ————–
    RAVI- ISI- SHAN KUTTA- traitor, abuses Indian gods but denounces anyone who dares to even draw the prophets face in a nice way- what a hypocrite

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    even USMAN CHOWDHURY from Pakistan on V Sharma’s blog- liked respected, treated well here. AND RAVI- proudly says- yes I hurl obscene abuses at holy hindu trinity and lord ram

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    @RAVI- pehle u tried to make out you were a hindu with doc mishra- 5 months ago
    Then you tried to inviegle to me saying you were a sikh
    Then you tried to suck upto doc mishra, shan and myself- all UK ersidents- pretending to be a Brit
    ———
    ALL LIES RAVI, you are none of these. You are muslim- whether Indian or pakistani, only your IP addesss will know
    —————–
    we welcomed to our house- India cyber blog- yr views are imp not yr religion or whether u hold the dreaded green passport. u abused our hospitality
    IN THE NAME OF ALLAH or BUKHARI or KAYANI whichever god u worship- YOU HAVE CREATED A STENCH HERE. JUST GO MAN
    —————-No sikh is so humourless, so anti national, so self hating- you r a troll
    Obscenities against our gods, IN OUR OWN HOUSE ? KHOTTEY- Guru Nanak kad the greatest respect for our hindu brothers and one of our SIKH GURUS dies for kashmiri pandits.
    Maharaja Ranjit Singh banned cow slaughter where he could

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder.

    There G O N E

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    cow slaughter was banned by bahadur shah zafar before.before that buhdhdists banned it.brhmns broght cow to india.they used to slaughter cow on their auspicious occasions.used to eat it.so it reached to point of extinction.so budhhdists banned this.neverthless same kindless should be extended to other animals as well.but they should not be allowed to wander on streets.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Guru Nanak kad the greatest

    RIGHT HAND MAN OF GURNANK JEE WAS MASTANA(A MUSLIMS).WE ALSO RESPECT HIM.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Raju Kurien, Gopi Thomas

    THESE 2 ARE ZOINIST RSS TYPE COMMUNAL HINDUS.NOT CHRISTIANS.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    regarding discussions between ravi &rizwan,pls note thatRAM WAS KING NOT BHAGWAN.in epic also nowhere it is mentioned that he is god.he was a king.wife of a bhagwan cannot be kidnapped.
    all tension is because lack of knowledge.he was the king but from backward(kurmi)race.this is reason why there is no temple all over india which is dedicated to him.he is worshipped through hanuma(brhmn)

    [Reply]

  • Jai Khosla

    Zia, like most other, Muslims has blinders on when it comes to Islam, the Koran and the founder of Islam, Muhammad.

    A book that condones slavery, allows polygamy, easy divorce rights for the husband, killings and the beating up of wives cannot be God’s word. A god, Allah in this case, who allegedly uttered the words, cannot be God.

    Muhammad was aman who ordered assaniations of innocent poets and writers, masacred a whole tribe of unarmed Jewish males and then sold their widows and orphans into slavery, married a six year old child and then had sex with child when she was nine, stole his own daughter-in-law from his adopted son Zaid, had a child out of wedlock by his slave concubine Maria, was not a good man, leave alone a prophet of God.

    Zia and other thinking Muslims should face up to reality. Islamic reform will then automatically follow.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    khosla all ur holy books are war stories.millions were killed.our prophet fought with few tribe to establish just system.that is why from siberia to south africa or from indonesia to austria u will find his supporters in large numbers.pls dont awnser half ur writing is bullshit and propaganda.
    usually carried by western media.
    i dont want to bwrite about ur bhagwans nad practices.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    ashish writes- these paradigms are dated – oye somebody give me dictionary hehe
    translation in Gurmukhi please AASHISH

    [Reply]

    Jai Khosla Reply:

    Tajender

    Why not use a Muslim name instead of a Sikh/Hindu name–Tajender–u do not evn know how to spell it.

    Your prophet ordered the murder of Asma bint Marwan merely because she criticized him in her poems.

    His sexual relations with children would be a crime of rape today.

    Please examine your books–Koran, hadiths, sirats–all the info I posted is all there.

    Unless you face up to reality Islam will remain stagnated in the 7th century.

    Regarding my scriptures i do not consider them God revealed but only human written–therefore not to be followed blindly.

    I do not claim Hinduism is perfect. I ask my fellow Hindus how can we move on and make Hinduism perfect.

    Islam today is the same tribal atrocity imposed on Arabia by Muhammad.

    You need to ask yourself” how can we improve on the Islam that Muhammad invented and only then will Muslims make progress.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    asma was not innocent.what happened to her she was asking for that.in those days entire tribes used to be slaughtered.she was killed by her blind husband umair.who converted to islam.
    u know what changez ,roman and catholic church used to do.or what vedics did to byhdhdist and jainese.
    iread holy quran and hadith both.may u dont know that magna carta first document of justice is copied from holy quran.

    u love ur religion i will respect ur religion.muslims are victim of zoinism.because of islam we are not perpetuator of voilence.it is better to improve urslf than to do teaching.indonesia ia 1/6 of india has larger economy than india.employing hundreds of thousands of indians.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    well riswan says- why cant we have a code of conduct for this blog. okay Mishrajee’s words are a good starting point.
    Dr Mishra, UK says:
    May 9, 2011 at 2:56 am
    Ravi / ISI

    You hurl obscenities at Lord Ram, and when caught by our young Turk Rizwan, try and denigrate Bhagwan Ram’s position by quoting some foreigner.
    Maybe, Rizwan is right. Maybe we did ignore this very unpleasant side of yours, which surfaces periodically.
    Abusing someone on a blog is deeply unpleasant. Abusing someone’s God is filthy behaviour. You have both disappointed and disgusted me.
    Please do not say that xyz has said worse. As people say, you are a man of words- I therefore expected higher standards from you.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    anyone who breaks these rules will be belly bumped by me (there is a lot of beer calories in there, believe me)

    or he will be forced to read Ashish’s long posts and translate them for us mortals hehe
    only joking Ashish- you write well, I am going to print off your posts and get my daughter to explain- she is vaary intelligent, goes to Oxford

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    bade paajee,

    mera khayal rakhiye gaa bada paapee hoon.bahut kamzoor bhee hoon.

    , try and denigrate Bhagwan Ram’s position by quoting some foreigner

    as per ramanaya he was king not god.so better close this discussion.he was popularize by
    wajid ali shah and commuanlize by a refugee called advani(bahta paani)

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    ashish and shan,iliked ur essays they were good but problem with us that we aere liberated by
    ghandhi jee who injected lot of racial pioson in our blood.finishing other not helping others is main aim,u know why

    because M.K. Gandhi hailed as the apostle of non-violence, walking with a simple loin cloth and fountain head of Hindu spiritualism, was the king of all the Hindu corrupt crorepatis. He made the Marwadis, once beggars, into multi-millionaires. Birlas, Dalmias, Bajajs, Ambanis, Goenkas, Sahu Jains were all blessed by Gandhi to loot the country and become rich.

    “Hindu spiritualism” is the other name for Brahminical blood-sucking exercise.

    muslims are victim of zoinism.because of islam we are not perpetuator of voilence.it is better to improve urslf than to do teaching.indonesia ia 1/6 of india has larger economy than india.employing hundreds of thousands of indians.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The problem with this blog is tejnder/Ram always gets into Brahmin/Jewish conspiracy as the reason for worlds problems, especially the Muslim problems..then they get into how pristine Islam is and how enlightened Saudi Arabia is..This give sthe fodder for others to jump on..

    Ravi and Ram should stop bringing in subjects tthat do not have any relevance to the item being debated. such as Ravi b ringing in the story about Lord Rama in this blog’s discussion on how to stop jehadism.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    The problem with this blog is tejnder/Ram always gets into Brahmin/Jewish conspiracy as the reason for worlds problems

    hegde this i dont say.fbi says in 90%of the terrorist attacks cia is involve.brhmnst are their local agent in india.they are also planting bombs in india.
    i never said that saudi arabia is enlightened.but u people should discuss indian problems.everybody in the world knows what is happening.
    some are disgusted that why muslims has sympathy with ossama.whem ghandhi was assasinated ,there were people who were distributing sweets.like u people in my community also few people have different opinion.
    if somebody do some evil work in california u abuse taxi driver of jakarta.what is this.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    I normally avoid reading what Tajendender write. But whenever I want to laugh or smile
    I read his jokes. For me what he writes is just a joke . It brings smile to my face.

    Ashish,

    Please dont leave this forum .

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    I am as old on this forum as this blog and I sign off today.
    I do not know if I will be back; this blog has seldom broken any new grounds in thinking. I kept coming back for the pleasure of meeting my virtual friends; many of whom have taught me things I did not know.
    I have wirnessed some memorable duels on this blog: between SKS_Mumbai and Bobby, Gopi and Bobby, Syed battling Rajeev and Sam, Vinay taking on Ravi.
    To all of you, most of whom are no longer here, my thanks.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Ashish, dont go, just when I was liking your posts
    I had said above- “”"ashish writes- these paradigms are dated – oye somebody give me dictionary hehe. translation in Gurmukhi please AASHISH”"”
    Let this rustic sardar duel with you
    Or else stay and duel with the navratans of my court- Gopi, syed, doc mishra, hegde, hehe

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Ashish bhai, dont go away. riswan had asked a nice question last month, then it got wiped out ( you remember last blog?)
    Time to restart that debate.
    I think he had said something like- if my memory serves me right-
    WHY ARE THE FOLLOWING MUSLIMS MODERATE-

    USA
    India
    Dubai
    Mauritius
    Indonesia
    Chinese

    something like that. Dont think you took part then- lets hear your pearls- paradigms of moderation etc etc
    Others join in, otherwise this blog is dying

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    or Ashish, if you really are going, pl take ramavtar / tajender / mustandan khan with you- we are drowning in his cut and paste here.
    release him just once a month to blog on a full moon night. The strange sound you will hear in Calcutta will be myself howling at the moon in frustration
    hehe

    tajender Reply:

    mustandan kha
    paajee dont write my name wrongly,

    mustandan khan…..no

    mustandan hussain tarad….yes.khadiyal punjabi naam.

    tajender Reply:

    with large families (8 children average),

    doc ur general description is right but no.of childrens looksn more.but muslim community has 80%-90%without beard.may be u are talking of bengalees.under 60 we are normal.we up people mix.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    ashish-

    persist and persevere; dont leave…

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ashish may be u will i promise u for following,

    वॉशिंगटन।। अफगानिस्तान की तोराबोरा पहाड़ियों में और पाकिस्तान के ऐबटाबाद में छिप कर रहने वाले ओसामा बिन लादेन से लड़ने में अमेरिका को 30 खरब डॉलर गंवाने पड़े।

    अमेरिकी अर्थशास्त्रियों के मुताबिक लादेन से लड़ने के लिए अमेरिका को दो देशों, अफगानिस्तान और इराक में सैनिक कार्रवाई करनी पड़ी। अमेरिका को आतंकवाद विरोधी अभियान में भारी पैसा खर्च करना पड़ा। दूसरे वर्ल्ड-वॉर के दौरान अमेरिका को सुरक्षा प्रबंधों पर 44 खरब डॉलर खर्च करने पड़े थे।

    नोबेल पुरस्कार से सम्मानित अर्थशास्त्री जोसेफ स्टिग्लिज और लिंडा बिलमेस ने पिछले 15 सालों के दौरान अमेरिका की आतंकवाद विरोधी अभियान पर हुए खर्च का अनुमान लगाया है। उनके अनुसार कम करके आंकने पर भी अमेरिका को 30 खरब डॉलर का खर्च उठाना पड़ा।

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Jahil Ganwar…Tees Kharab matlab 3 Trillion…

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    idiot tees kharab meabs 30 trillions

    Rajeev Reply:

    No one can educate Jahils… :) You can keep calling it 30 Trillions…

    tajender Reply:

    yes it is 3 trillion my zero was wrong but the way u are talking confirms that u are son of a b1t.tch

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tajender,
    Are you talking about your mothers who were mounted on by Navy Seals>

    shan Reply:

    @Dr Mishra, you only know about orthodox jews through TV/newspapaers.I have intracted with them They have their MADRASSAH(yes you are reading it correct). When I used to work in newham hospital, I used to meet quite a few.
    These people are a very tiny fringe , and they do invite prejudice.
    But what you have completely failed to appreciate is JEWS ARE TORCHBEARER OF MODERN EUROPEAN SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION.
    There are countless politicians , scientist ,literary figures , media personalities ALL JEWS.
    Just a very small sample, Disraeli , the primeminister was a jew (though he had to convert as a condtion of taking up the job), One Viceroy , monty something was jew.A scientist who had invented something which was critical in the ammunition technology was a jew. This scientist impressed on Lord Balfour , which led to balfour Declaration , promising a homeland for jews in then British Mandate in palestine. In medicine prof harold ellis of surgery is jew from your Yorkshire, and there are so many very famous name it will take an hour to write all of them
    There are about 15 nobel laureattes just post 1947 in UK ,who are jew
    More recently Nigel Lawson , finance minister under thatcher was jew ,so is Malclom Rifkind, foreign secretary, and ?nigel dawson from Northallerton was a EU commissioner.
    Jack Straw is jew and is from your yorkshire.
    If islam produced just 1/10 of the jewish contribution , their image would be different.
    I havent touched media , Michael Grade , chairman of ITV is a jew, Amy Winehouse , HAROLD PINTER(nobel laureatte in literature) Natalie portman , Rachel Weisz all jews.

    RajX Reply:

    Your point about orthodox jews is very true. And yes jews have enriched humanity despite being persecuted in the countries where they lived. They deserve our respect. I dont buy their theological reasons for creating the state of israel(gods choosen people and all that) but israel has earned its right to exist and prosper without being threatened by its arab neigbours.

    tajender Reply:

    they are showing their enriched humanity in gaza and other occupied areas.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    this is for bobby, or Rizwan, Gopi, Balwinder, Syed, Hegde, Raju, Vinay and others who I like debating or arguing with- they know who they are.

    Bobby- carpet bombing of Af was wrong, many tens of thousands of innocent poor villagers were vapourised. Invasion of Iraq was bizarre, and lead to deaths of lakhs. If Saddam took his country back 50 years with his wars with Iran and Kuwait, Bush took it back another hundred.

    I do not know enough about drone attacks in Pak- no doubt they have killed hundreds of terrorists and also innocent civilians- how many of the latter, I do not know.

    I cannot give a cut and dried answer to every situation. I have done the best I can. Neither you nor I are privy to the intelligence that USA, India and Pak have about these very dangerous Islamists or their proximity to nukes.
    ———
    SDir, I await your apology.

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Dr Mishra,

    well in that case, my apologies.

    RajX Reply:

    Yes. They use smart bombs instead of kasam rockets which hamas fires specifically on civilians. Hamas is very humane indeed.

    tajender Reply:

    shan ,,

    christians hate jews and jews hate christians.they are like mangoose and serpent.europe wanted to get rid of jewish problem.(ashknazi).first they were asking uganda.but with discovery of oil area was changed to palestine.word nazi is coming from ashknazi.they big pain for them.
    sending them out of continent was only solution.
    but europe is in catch22 situation.now they control europe and america and also got a state.
    palestine actually belong to semitic jews,not ashknazi .semitic jews are considered like bhangi chamars in israel.
    ashknazis who never had any tie with mkiddle east became ruler.they were pain for europe now they are headache in middle east.they are evil genius.all their researches are to hurt and enslave humanity.not to serve us.moreover racialism and apartheism is first lesson of their
    religion,hence hate has become duty.go in the past to know them better,

    These harbingers of terror claim to be “refugees”, since they had no nation of their own, but infested the civilized societies in every part of the world for two thousand years, bringing with them, in every instance, disease and death.

    They have emerged from one shattered nation after another, not as refugees, but as the final victors, bearing away their loot, and scurrying through ports which they have created and which they alone know how to follow, until they come to another host nation.

    With them they bring, like the medieval Bubonic Plagues, (an infection which they were accused of spreading), a terrible contamination, an infestation which quickly spreads through the new host country, and fells all who become its victims. This plague was the world Communism, and its known carriers, the furry scavengers who have found their way through the sewers into every civilized place, are the international Jews.

    We are asked to weep only for the Jews, and to ignore the many millions of actual victims of world terrorism in the past one hundred and fifty years, a chronicle of such horror that one scarcely can bear to put down this bloodstained record, not merely in fear that the world might put away its business in order to mourn these countless victims of international Communist terrorism, but that the tragic fate of these innocents, most of them women and children, is one of such pathos that one’s heart could break from the full impact of its terrifying implications for everyone alive today.
    humanity found the cure of that plague.china do not have jews.now capitalism is the main conduit for them to reach every country and destroy their civil societies give the maximum pain
    to residents.

    shan before rennaince most of the inventions came from us.we prepared the base.but being muslim most of our inventions were innovative not destructive.we will come up again,as base of islam iis egalitarianism,honesty truth &peace.

  • tajender

    ashish
    i personally request u to stay.ur ideas were great i like alot.but what can i do,if shan says like this,

    What islam needs is an intellectual onslaught on the five pillars and JUST FREEDOM TO EXPRESS AND OFFEND and the rest will automatically follow.

    this was my awnser to this naughty bengalee.i enjoy ur bligs and writings so stay.

    bade paajee kee baat koi bhi nahi talta hai.woh gusse mein hain aur main table ke neeche chupaa hoon.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Guys is there more than what meets the eye. Is there an outside chance the real reason
    for ashish throwing in the towel is DO HANSO KA JODA BICHHAR GAYO RE ,GAZAB BHAYO RAMA JULUM BHAYO RE.
    Ashish Reply:
    May 9th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    @Ravi,
    I am sorry to see you go. We may not have agreed but, have agreed to disagree. It has been a pleasure.
    Should you ever wish to connect, drop me a note on my personal blog http://eastdelhicitizen.wordpress.com
    well this is a small present on behalf of the bloggers , keeping in mind your fondness for good prose.
    This from somebody who has been hailed as the greatest writer of english prose,currently alive
    To see the possibility, the certainty, of ruin, even at the moment of creation: it was my temperament. Those nerves had been given me as a child in Trinidad partly by our family circumstances: the half-ruined or broken-down houses we lived in, our many moves, our general uncertainty. Possibly, too, this mode of feeling went deeper, and was an ancestral inheritance, something that came with the history that had made me: not only India, with its ideas of a world outside men’s control, but also the colonial plantations or estates of Trinidad, to which my impoverished Indian ancestors had been transported in the last century – estates of which this Wiltshire estate, where I now lived, had been the apotheosis.
    Fifty years ago there would have been no room for me on the estate; even now my presence was a little unlikely. But more than accident had brought me here. Or rather, in the series of accidents that had brought me to the manor cottage, with a view of the restored church, there was a clear historical line. The migration, within the British Empire, from India to Trinidad had given me the English language as my own, and a particular kind of education. This had partly seeded my wish to be a writer in a particular mode, and had committed me to the literary career I had been following in England for twenty years

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Shan this brilliant bit of prose has to be – VS Naipaul. I may have read all his non fiction books. The man was too acid in the 60s and 70s, and certainly digesting his trilogy on India was difficult. I may have admired his caustic prose, but I was never comfy with the sneering colonial approach to the pooverty of India- in his words- a nation of defecators.
    I am never one for those that have made a living out of the misery of others, and certainly the misery of the poor Indians was hundreds of years in the making.
    But in the 80s he mellowed and I loved -India- a million mutinies now.
    His magnum opus (that word again) Among the believers- a travelogue thru muslim countries- was almost certainly copied by Aatish Taseer- Stranger to history.
    In fact, Aatish copies NAIPAUL’S STYLE

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    and then he spoke. And when he did, it was, as he himself put it so immodestly, a magnum opus. It was- most of what he wrote has already been said before, maybe some of it even by me (immodesty is a universal phenomenon), but rarely hat it been so well put together.
    So bravo Ashish. To those who missed the ‘State of the Indian muslim nation address’ here is the clue:

    Ashish Reply:

    May 9th, 2011 at 11:06 am
    ……………………………..
    So, it is ironic that my bravo has to be followed by alvida, babu moshai

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Ashish- nice lines- …When the rights of a community are predominantly defined by its right to worship, it is time to worry….
    Oddly enough, thereis a community here in UK which is obsessed with separateness, with worship and religion, with seperate faith schools, with large families (8 children average), with very odd appearance- long beards; a community that may not be on benefits, but is not wealth oriented like the hindus/ sikhs…
    I am talking about the Orthodox Jewish quom, found in abundance in London in Golders Green and Stamford Hill. The women shave their hair and wear wigs and the men in addition to long beards have ringlet curls down the side of their heads.
    Why then does this ’strange community’ not invite thesame kind of hatred like their Abrahaminic muslim cousins ??
    - – - – - –
    Because, although like the muslims, ans perhaps like the Gujjus of Wembley, while they have chosen to live apart from the English, they are not at odds with them.
    - – - – - – - -
    So, your lines Ashish- ……When the rights of a community are predominantly defined by its right to worship, it is time to worry….I am not worrying about this particular community.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Absolute Gem from Nadeem F. Paracha on OSAMA’s death. I wish we had bloggers like him but we are stuck with Osama fans like Zia.

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/05/dead-man-and-the-sea.html

    Dead man and the sea
    BY NADEEM F. PARACHA ON MAY 5TH, 2011 | COMMENTS (225)

    We asked world famous occult medium, Mr. Abdul Qadir Awami Badami, to connect and communicate with Osama bin Laden’s soul, to ask him what really happened on the night he was shot dead in Abbottabad …

    Mr. Osama, can you hear me? Mr. Osama?
    Bubble … bubble … bubble

    I think I have made contact with the departed soul. Mr. Osama, can you hear me?
    Yes, where am I? Is this heaven?

    No, sir, you are at the bottom of the sea.
    Sea? Hmmm … yes, it does seem that way. Am I dead?

    Well, yes. Kind of.
    Hmm … how did I die?

    I was hoping you could tell me that.
    All I remember is that it was night and I was waiting for the Kakul guys to get my dinner, and then I heard these ’copters and thought maybe the Kakul guys were throwing me a surprise party or something and I got very excited, and …

    The Kakul guys used to give you dinner?
    Well, yes. Biryani on Mondays and Tuesdays, chicken chowmein on Wednesdays, steak on Thursdays, mixed veggies on Saturdays and Sundays …

    And on Fridays?
    On Fridays I used to call them over for dinner. One of my wives makes a darn good Yemeni stew.

    I see. So they knew you were hiding there?
    Of course, they did! They’re my wives!

    I mean the Kakul guys.
    Oh. Well, according to their intelligence reports, I was some rich Arab camel breeder and exporter.

    Really? They didn’t bother to cross-check?
    Let’s just say, I was not on their radar.

    Must be the same radar that failed to pick the American ’copters …
    I tell you, my men have better radars, hehehe … bubble, bubble..
    By the way, you said that I was in hiding?

    Weren’t you in hiding?
    Not at all!

    Then why did the Americans take 10 years to find you?
    Those fools don’t know much about caves.

    But you weren’t hiding in a cave, sir.
    My friend, let me tell you, all of Pakistan is one big cave!

    Then did the Pakistanis really know you were in the country all along?
    My friend, they wouldn’t have been Pakistanis had they not known. Hehe … bubble, bubble.

    Huh?
    Never mind.

    So you are saying they knew?
    Well I was … excuse me, I think I have a fish stuck in my ear. *Plop!* Ah, a red snapper! So, what were you saying? By the way, what is your name, brother?

    Abdul Qadir Awami Badami
    That is a strange name. Are you by any chance a Hindu?

    No.
    Hmm … I guess I will have to kill you anyway.

    But you are dead.
    Oh, right, of course. Then I guess I will kill some fish instead.

    Are you a seafood fan?
    No, I just like killing infidels.

    Infidel fish?
    Yes, you have a problem with that, you idol worshipper!

    How can fish be infidel?
    Look at them! Swimming in the sea, all naked!

    But they are fish!
    And stark naked! Shameless.

    Whatever, tell us about your stay in Pakistan…
    It reminded me of home.

    Saudi Arabia?
    No, Afghanistan, but with better cars and escalators.

    But you’re a Saudi.
    I’m a Muslim first. The best there was. And if you disagree I will get you killed. You are a Christian Crusader anyway.

    No.
    Non-Muslim!

    Human being.
    Infidel!

    Any difference between human beings and Muslims?
    Of course there is. That is why we only kill human beings.

    But you and your al Qaeda and Taliban friends have killed thousands of Pakistani Muslims.
    They were all bad Muslims.

    How can you say that?
    I don’t say. I blow!

    No, you say, while others blow…
    Those who blow have true faith.

    Even the small children and infants who have died in these attacks?
    Yes!

    So people who blow themselves up in mosques, shrines and markets are the only true Muslims?
    It is much more complicated than that. A very complex concept.

    Please explain.
    You see, only those Muslims who blow themselves up in mosques, shrines and markets are the only true Muslims.

    But that’s what I said.
    You did?

    Yes.
    I see … you Hindu!

    Why did you say that?
    Because you worship idols.

    But to some, you are an idol too.
    I am an ideal.

    A pretty violent one though.
    Yes, mashallah.

    But I’m not forcing my beliefs on you.
    That is because you are a chicken!

    So I should impose them on you?
    Yes. Come on, I invite you to convert to my faith. Where is your suicide jacket?

    Where’s yours?
    I deal in suicide jackets, not wear them, fool.

    I know so many Muslims who are nothing like you.
    They are not Muslims!

    Then who are they?
    Human beings! Ugh!

    But I thought a good Muslim also meant being a good human being.
    Jewish propaganda!

    What?
    Well, as I … excuse me, I think I see a shark approaching.

    Why don’t you move from there?
    No worries. You know that red snapper that got stuck in my ear?

    Yes…
    Well, I trained it to become a suicide bomber. It just exploded over the shark’s head!

    But the shark did not attack you!
    But it could have.

    You’re sounding like George W. Bush. He, too, was into pre-emptive strikes, remember?
    Ah, good ol’ Bushy. He was good for my business. But this Obama guy turned out to be different.

    Different, how? In policy and in strategy?
    No, in colour. He is black.

    A human being, nevertheless.
    That is the problem. The whole world should be Muslim, instead.

    Yes, just like Bush wanted the whole world to become American.
    Ah, good ol’ Bushy. Those were the days. Right, I guess I’ll kill you now.

    But you’re dead. Buried deep in the sea.
    They buried me here?

    Yes, the Americans buried you in the sea.
    Wow! Has Obama converted to Islam?

    What do you mean? You were a Salafi, right?
    Yes. I am amazed. How did he know we didn’t believe in marked graves?

    But some of your fans around the world are criticising him for not giving you a decent Muslim burial.
    Infidels!

    So you are happy that they buried you in the sea?
    Of course! Otherwise bad Muslims would have made a shrine at my grave. We blow up shrines, you know.

    Yes I do. But this is amazing. You are actually happy at what Obama did?
    Yes, but minus the shooting-me-in-the-head part, of course.

    So you do remember that you were shot in the head?
    Well, I really do have this bad headache and … well, I’ll be dammed! There’s a hole in my head! The buggers did shoot me!

    The Americans?
    Yes, who else? The Pakistanis?

    So Pakistanis weren’t at all involved in your assassination?
    Well, their only contribution to this was that on that fateful, tragic night they delayed my dinner. Buggers. Had to be shot on an empty stomach.

    But the Taliban are blaming them and saying that now their top target is Pakistan.
    Really? What was our top target before my death? Guatemala?

    You tell me.
    Hmmm … better warn Mullah Omar.

    Why, is he hiding in Pakistan too?
    Follow the dinner trail, follow the dinner trail …

    So the Pakistanis did know you were there, right?
    Pakistanis don’t know where they themselves are, forget about knowing where I was. What is the Pakistani media saying?

    Some of their TV anchors seem shocked and sad.
    Yes, one of them once worked as a cook for me and another used to give me great massages.

    Can you name them?
    No. Don’t want to give them undue importance. Let the ISI do that.

    The ISI gives them importance?
    Sort of. They give the ISI great massages too.

    Can you be more specific?
    Yes, I can. I. Want. To. Behead. You. You. Hindu. How is that for being specific, you cunning Jew?

    Human being.
    Same thing.

    Whatever.
    Chicken! Come on fight me, you Buddhist coward!

    I am disconnecting from you now. May God deal with you in whatever way he thinks you are to be dealt with.
    Darn. I almost forgot. You are right. Now I will have to meet the maker. Do you think he likes seafood?

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    NFP is THE man. He has a lot of courage to touch all the taboo topics in pakistan even with the knowledge that he may loose his life in the process. I doubt if we have many opinion makers of his caliber in the indian media.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    GOD BLESS AMERICA
    @Bobby , you are making into a habit of settling the debates. Last time you said something about the role of god , and that settled all the existential questions for me .
    This time your lines
    “Terrorism in the modern age is largely a product of modern politics. Islamic Jehadism has its roots in the cold war conflict between the two super terrorists of the time- the USSR and the USA. That does not mean that there were no fundamentalists before that. It means that those fundamentalists got powerful due to the support of the USA.”
    First of all lets be clear , we are talking ONLY about the foreign policy of USA , not the country USA.
    For without the country USA we will be stuck in the year 1900. Not just Edison and light bulbs , YOUR OWN SUBJECT would be sixty year behind without the contribution of Feynman , Weinberg , Dirac(I know he is english , but he did his work in ?canada) and you only can tell the role of Lawrence Livermore Lab , and Berkley and Standford and John Nash and what not you can educate us.
    But when you are discussing all the gangsters in the world history, how can you omit THE GODFATHER , DON CORLIONE. YES I AM TALKING ABOUT THE GREATEST GANGSTER OF ALL THE ENGLISH.
    They have drawn and redrawn boundaries of maps for centuries, created artificial countries to suit their purpose, like Afganistan was created as buffer to protect their milch cow India from Russian encroachment, just like Nepal was created as a buffer to protect the mistress called india from chinese lust.Same way the imperialist SOLD TIBET , (just like girls are sold in sonagachi ) just gave it a name SUZERANITY (read right to dishnour a girl at will)
    Same with PALESTINE , and generally the entire middle east particularly Lebanon. This was the ANGLO FRENCH COLD WAR circa 1900 , played at the fields of biblical Levanth.
    But it is also true the time when pro israeli stance was at its height during Reagan years , Arabs were licking americas boots . WITHOUT STINGER MISSILE , the mujaheddin wouldn’t be able to touch a single strand of russian army’s hair.
    Well in surgery most of the time we dont know the exact cause , like even in our bread and butter case appendicitis, But we know how to cure , so that you will never get another appendicitis.
    Similarly the malaise that afflicts the islamic world has only cure , THAT IS SECULARISM AND FREEDOM TO EXPRESS AND OFFEND, the rest will automatically follow.
    Post Script , your fraternity can bring this malaise to an end. Lets say the science of FUSION comes alive .
    Do you think any of the MAWALIS(UK/USA/FRANCE) have any interest in Middle east.
    Also as much your neck veins are engorged at the injustices of USA ,
    HOW ABOUT THE BARBARIC OCCUPATION OF TIBET FOR LAST SIXTY YEARS.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    Kya Shan? Khoda blog nikla communist Jihadi…Your Bobby sen is a big downer…I know this **** from earlier blog..hypocrite to the core and a closet Jihadi hiding in communist clothing.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan-

    tibetan Budhists great example… show me one traveling budhist who is blowing up airports, train stations, airplanes, places of worship etc.. Why is Jehadis doing this for their religion…It has nothing to dow ith Americas actions..And if anybody is upset about America, let them target Americans and not random all over..spineless shit they are

    tajender Reply:

    because america is not there.6.5million refugees are not there.they were enslaved by lamas now they liberated getting good education and good treatment.chineses are not looting their natural resources.
    brhmnst and zoinist agent dalai lama is sitting in india to create problem inside tibet.but failed.

    dalai lama misl ghareebi hain

    khud woh ja nahin sakte

    ham unhe hata nahinsakte.

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan,

    When I talk about the US, I always mean the US government. Only nuts like Rajeev fail to make a distinction between the people and culture of a place and the policies of its government.

    People are the same everywhere. There are some exceptional Americans, who I have great respect for. In fact so many of them have strongly opposed the US invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, and went down to Israel, in support of the Palestinians. In contrast there are hardly any long marches in India in support of Sharmila Irom, or the Kashmiri right to self determination.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Nonsense – only a fringe and often ridiculed minority was against Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The level of support for Afghan war has gone down now because the stupid thing has been going on for 10 years.

    And people are not same everywhere, other than all people eat and drink. As Shan said show me a Tibetan commiting suicide bombing because his land was taken by chinese.

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy, OBAMA VOTED AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR

    Rajeev Reply:

    Bobby says “When I talk about the US, I always mean the US government.”

    Sure…that’s why innocent american civillians were targetted on 9/11, daniel pearl beheaded and scores of americans killed by jehadis. All Islamists have declared that it is legal to target American civillians as per Quran.

    Why can’t these nuts engage US military in combat? If they had done so, there would never have been roles of civillians in any conflict.

    If Islamists/muslim countries and jehad loving left-wingers have so much problem with American foreign policy, what stops 57 muslim nations and their supporters to take US to task in UN thru a resolution. I am sure OIL rich muslim countries have ways to put pressure on US foreign policy. But they never take this route because these wars serve them as it helps them mask their own ill-goverenance. If Osama was upset with US troops in Saudi, why did he target WTC, why not Saudi Arabia?

    These left wingers alongwith Islamists are greatest danger to world peace. I can see two blocs emerging..one is China-Islamic plus a reluctant Russia and other is NATO-India-Israel-& pacifist Far east.

    I want to ask Bobby why are communist (athiests) are so supportive of fanactic Islamists. Why is it that they compulsively show reverence to Islam and fanatical muslims?

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Rajeev,

    Take the US to task in the UN???? NIcaragua, actually did that. They went to the ICJ- the international court of justice- which is the highest legal body in the world. Th ICJ indicted the US for international terrorism. What heppened? Nothing.

    The worlds biggest thug organization doesnot give a damn about the ICJ. The muslim countries can never effect US foreign policy. Its the other way around.

    Osama’ s killing of 3000 civilians was a criminal act, but pales in comparison to the killing of civilians by the US. Read the history of South American countries. KIlling civilians is the most popular past time of the US. The most disgusting example of that is bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Deliberate killing of civilians.

    “I want to ask Bobby why are communist (athiests) are so supportive of fanactic Islamists. Why is it that they compulsively show reverence to Islam and fanatical muslims”

    Well again one should do a bit of reading. The US supports the Saudi monarch- no better than the Taliban. It supported and armed the same jihadists, which it is now fighting.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, pretty much true, except the bit about ICJ.America is not a signatory , for obvious reasons , therefore it is well within its right to ignore ICJ, just like India is not a signatory to NPT , thus india was well within its rights to do pokhran 2. Therefore there may been some sanctions here and there , but NOT A GREAT DEAL COULD BE DONE , was what the USA concluded.
    End of the day , as much we hate the reality is old indian adage
    JISKA DANDA USKA BHAINS

    Rajeev Reply:

    Bobby,
    How about OIL rich arabia stop oil supplies, put pressure, pass an OIC resolution banning US in 57 countries?
    The reality is that muslim countries can not stand each other and they invite US to take care of their business. You can not blame US for this.

    As far as Hiroshima and Nagasaki is concerned, please remember Japan’s unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor.

    I agree that US has used force at some place where it was not required but there was local support for US actions. Two good examples are Vietnam and Korea where large sections of local people sided with US in their fight against communists.

    What stops muslim countries to form a united front and counter US? If you can’t stop cribbing.

    “The US supports the Saudi monarch- no better than the Taliban. It supported and armed the same jihadists, which it is now fighting.”

    US supports Saudi not for their ideology but the resources they are sitting on. Yes, it armed Jehadis to counter communists. Once its goal was achieved, it broke alliance with Jehadis. What is wrong with that. I think you should read and also use little bit of your brain too…What is common between you communists and Jehadis? Why is it communists appease Islamists and their religion?

    Bobby Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    you are too naive and ignorant of history. If any of the middle eastern countries try that, they would be bombed to the fifth century. In fact that is precisely why the US has imposed dicatators in all these countries. Yes the people of these countries, indeed want to get the US out of Arabia, but they cant, because there are dictators in all these countries, again to repeat, with full US support.

    “As far as Hiroshima and Nagasaki is concerned, please remember Japan’s unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor. ”

    You are wrong on two counts. First, Pearl Harbour was not unprovoked. ONe might get that impression, by watching propoganda movies Hollywood movies like “Pearl Harbour”.

    I cant explain the reasons to you here, but please read the topic. Or if you dont have time, listen to this lecture.

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqXOQy6AG3o”

    More importantly- Pearl Harbour was a military target. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities. This act is the single biggest terrorist attack in the history of human kind.

    “Yes, it armed Jehadis to counter communists. Once its goal was achieved, it broke alliance with Jehadis. What is wrong with that.”

    well that argument can be given by anyone. Pakistan can say that it supported jihadists in kashmir, to achieve its goal, and it would disband them, once kashmir is freed. Osama bin laden can say that he attacked civilians on 9/11 to acheive his goals, of destroying american power, and therefore its support of israel, which is resulting in the death of innocent palestinians, who are under israeli occupation.

    Killing civilians, and aiding terrorists is wrong- whether its done by islamists, or the US Governement.

    By the way, i came across this awesome song… you might want to hear it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr05tXktSo

    tajender Reply:

    daniel pearl

    deniel pearl was spy.what he was doing there.

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Very nice . I am still laughing.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Nice one. I am still laughing.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    rajeev, brilliant if cruel parody. Typical Piracha

    @tajender- pl read carefully, my comments were for Orthodox Jewish people in Golders Green

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    piracha is punjabi like rajeev,

    QADR ULLU KI ULLU JANATA HAI.

    people like ossama will have some support among supressed ,exploited and humiliated muslim class.

    rakto mladsvich is still hiding among serbs.though hague and international police is searching him.while his president was caught only few years back.ossama was a message not a body.
    his ways were wrong.message was not.libya is present example.
    movement like this exist everywhere like maoists in india shine path in latin america.where there is america there is no problem.
    fbi has confirmed that 90%of terrorist attacks are planned by cia.
    moreover ossama has done nothing as compare to what america isreal and europeans has done to humanity.
    because of bush 4.5 millions orphans are begging on the streets of iraq.when u are against him being tried.why so much against ossama.reason for movement against him was his personal with bush family.he also true face of zoinist.terrorists of yesterday imprisoned in
    guantana bay are being taken to cuba to kill civilians.

    naxal leaders like charu mazumdar,chanchal sarkar or jangal santhal were not muslims.zardaris of west bengal crushed them killed them.but now they have control over 260 districts of india.

    there is no military solution to a political problem.we dont consider ossama has gone from scene but as far as loot and voilence will reamain,he will remain.dont see him from religious angle.

    rivalry

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Guys ,look what i have done , true to my surgical background , i carried out an “internet operation”
    and i have unearthed something.This Ashish is the nom de guerre of someone called Anindyo, during his college days in BHU , he had seen drugs /alcohol in his campus.He also has bought a flat in dwarka , which he has rented out to a punjabi family. Well Ashish , if you give your address I will send you and your daughter a nice present , for the bruises you endured from me(though you also threw quite a few of punches your own,then i am a surgeon , I survive on stressful moments , a kind of addiction)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Al-Aqsa is called the FARTHEST mosque. If this is true why are there mosques west of Jerusalem. According to this there should be no mosque in west and as well as east. According to Islamic interpretation all the mosques west of Jerusalem and east of Medina should be illegal and Haraam.

    If not then muslims should not claim temple mount land for their farthest mosque. They can very well claim some small mosque in California as farthest mosque.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    US government killing Osama, is an act comparable to Dawood killing chota rajan. A gang war in which , unsurprisingly, the stronger terrorist won. It can not –by definition remove or reduce terror.

    If you took a world poll, today- an overwhelming majority of people, would say, that the US government is the worlds biggest terrorist organization. This is just a simple fact- based on any reasonable definition of the word terrorism.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Sorry, Bobby rather than trade insults, it is better to talk. I can go back to Vietnam or the decimation of red Indians but that is irrelevant here.
    I am Indian by birth and European by citizenship. Anyone who affects my life in either sphere I am interested in. Osama affected both, in a very negative way.
    2011- if Osama was found to be hiding in Abbotabad or Ahemdabad, the US govt or the Indian govt would be expected to liquidate him.
    Anything else would be unacceptable.
    Same goes for Dawood, Kashmir Ilyaasi, Chota Shakeel, Alwaki etc
    Over to you

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Tony Blair taking us into Iraq was also a disaster, and in my opinion led to 7/7. But that is another tale.
    If the Hague were to indict Bush and Blair as war criminals in the future I would support that.
    Life is complex, do not pigeonhole me on the basis of a small post I made above

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    shan, I was making a distinction between Orthodox jews of the ringlet curls men/ shaved hair women type, with the usual Jewish ppl like Nigel Lawson. Its a amall world, you mentioned Prof Harold Lewis, who I know quite well. Been to his house a few times. On friday meals, his family does do the whole religious ceremony with skull caps and prayers.
    The Orthodox jews live in a world of their own. Most are nice benign people, but there is an extreme fringe which may not ring 999 on friday sabbath evening EVEN IF THEY ARE DEVELOPING APPENDICITIS

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Well your reasoning is very similar to Osama’s. Just as you are indian by birth and european by citizenship, Osama is Arab by birth. so just as osama’s action influences your surroundings in a negative way, so does America’s consistent support to the terrorist state of israel, and killing more than a million iraqi children, through sanctions, their arming saddam hussain, and giving him weapons, including chemical weapons, which he used on civilians.

    Therefore just as killing of civilians by the US government is acceptable to you, in so far as that happens in the attempt to kill osama or capture him, so also osama justifies his act of killing civilians on 9/11 as necessary to defeat america- his sworn enemy.

    It is therefore clear that your mentality is same as Osama’s. neither you nor him care for human life, as long as it serves your purpose.

    Have a good day.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Bobby, you are confusing timelines. Around 2011, the world was genuinely coming together. Berlin wall had fallen, the Russians had been expelled from Af, and the Pakistanis from Kargil with our heroes and a little American help.
    India was on its way to becoming more affluent and the wset was seeing a economic upturn, as indeed were Indonesia, Malaysia and China.
    In steps buddy Osama, bombs some US embassies in Africa and then does the spectacularly evil 911, and US is shaken. As is its economy and world economy.
    US had to act. Then, that year I was on its side.
    That it bumbled in Iraq laetr is another story.
    But evil Osama threw the first punch. A very bloody punch.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Dr Mishra,

    “But evil Osama threw the first punch. A very bloody punch.”

    its clear that your knowledge of history begins from the time you graduated from watching mickey mouse to watching news. So its pointless to talk to you.

    regards.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, Holy Maccaroni, Made my day.
    I cant let this chance pass. bobby my mate, I was browsing the latest NewScientist. Wow, there is a diagram , BiG BANG, Unified Field Theory, then it trifuractes , one is electroweak forces , other is electrostrong forces , and then the bit that struck me , the third part of the trifurcation gravitational forces? Gravitron. What is this gravitron , is it a particle . In school we were taught the gravity emanates from centre of earth , and the earth at its core has magma , molten iron and that is generating all the forces. Also the magnetic field of the earth , i beleive Nicolas Tesla beleived we are swimming in a sea of magnetic energy. He tried to invent a machine to suck in these magnetic energy. In fact without the earth’s magnetic force you cannot generate electricity , the whole basis of generators , be it hydelpower or any Turbine , it essentially converts this magnetic energy to electrical energy.
    YOUR ELUCIDATION WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Shan,

    All matter interact with each other through force fields. There are four known forces. They are:

    Electromagnetism, the weak and strong forces both of which are sub nuclear forces, and of course gravity. Various theoretical ideas suggest, that all such forces at extremely high energies are manifestations of one unified force. At low temperatures, it looks like different forces. The early universe was much hotter than it is today. As the universe expands, it cools down. SO at some point of time in history of our universe, there was only one force. When the universe cooled sufficiently, the various forces decoupled.

    In quantum mechanics, all energy travels discontinuously in packets. The graviton is the name given to the smallest packet of gravitational energy.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Let me just dissect Palestine issue-
    1. The land of palentine has belonged to Jews historically.
    2. With the advent of Christianity and then Islam, jews got displaced and the land of jews turned into land of muslims-christians and then finally muslim land.
    3. As land keep changing hands, I fully support muslim occupation of that land.
    4. However when Israel was formed, the land again changed hand & became jewish land. What is the problem in accepting this?

    Coming to Al-Aqsa and Dome of Rock mosques-
    1. The walls around Al-Aqsa and Dome of Rock mosque clearly prove that they belong to an earlier construction i.e. Jewish temple mount. The Walls don’t gel with both the mosque.
    2. Mohammad spun a story that he was transported from Mecca to Jesrusalem (rock) and then to Heaven at the back of a horse. This is pure myth. Mohammad spun this lie to appropriate holiest land of jews. This Islamic mythology is nothing but steal of jews holy temple mount.

    The land of Israel and land of temple mount legally belongs to jews and muslims are illegal occupiers. Both these mosques are blot on humanity and human nature. Mohammad committed a grave crime by spinning the HORSE-LIE..it is because of his lie thousands of jews, christians and muslims have lost their lives. If history is to be corrected then muslims should debunk Mohammad Horse-to-jerusalem story, move both the mosques to some other sites and hand over temple mount to jews.

    tajender Reply:

    rajeev u have very superficial knowledge jews were removed from palestine by christians not by muslims.when muslims conquered jerusalam he allowed jews to be back.christians were using jewish holy places as waste dump.our khalifa has gone himself and removed the waste.also instructed trhis place to be cleaned and again use for worship.since then jews are plestine.when zoinists were descending in middle east EVERY JEW HAS GIVEN MERORENDUM TO GENERAL BALFOUR AGAINST THEIR ARRIVAL.THEY KNEW THEY ARE BSTRDS will put them in trouble.WHEN LAST JEW LEFT BAGHDAD AFTER SADDAM FALL(FORCED TO LEAVE)HE GAVE LECTURE THAT I WAS LIVING IN GARDEN OF EDENS.NOW I AM IN ISRAHELL.

    YESATERDAY SUPREME COURT HAVE REVERSED THE CLUMSY ORDER OF UP HIGH COURT.MILLIONS OF MOSQUE ARE CONVERTED TO CHURCH.that particular is holy to all.
    but they are not jews they are zoinist.they want blood bath.under muslim rule all three were living peacefully.since their arrival ,they are giving to everybody including jews.ayodhya mathura and even paryag are originally buddhist.so now hindus shoul;d be asked to vacate these places.

    zoinists are biggest enemy of jews.they have brought them to israel to nuked easily either by them or by christians.may be by muslims.they were living happily in russia or europe.here their existence is in danger.

    moreover pope and christians too have strong claim over this pope army is always seen there.
    ,

    Rajeev Reply:

    I know it was christians who displaced jews but you guys occupied temple mount.

    tajender Reply:

    jerusalam is always changing hands.tell me yes or no.

    AYODHYA ,MATHURA AND PRAYAG WER BUHDHDIST CITY.OCCUPIED BY VEDICS CONVERTED INTO SHIVALA .WILL U VACATE THIS IF BUHDHDIST ASKS FOT THAT.
    ALL OUR TOP MOSQUES AND HERITAGE IN SPAIN ARE CONVERTED INTO CHURCH.
    THEY SHOULD VACATE.
    THIS TALK IS BULLSHIT..

    Rajeev Reply:

    “AYODHYA ,MATHURA AND PRAYAG WER BUHDHDIST CITY.”

    These cities were hindu then became Buddhists and them Islamic and now are back in hindu hands…
    All these cities are originally hindu…
    Spain was christian and was occupied by muslim barbarians who were drove out so you have no claim on Spain.

    Even kaaba is occupied site..You should vacate Kaaba as well.

    tajender Reply:

    AYODHYA ,MATHURA AND PRAYAG WER BUHDHDIST CITY.”

    tell me where they are mentioned in ur holy scriptures.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Why don’t you convert to hinduism and find yourself?

    I can not educate a Jahil muslim.

    Bobby Reply:

    what a first rate nutcase!

    Rajeev Reply:

    May be it doesn’t fit in your Jehadi world view.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    Were you waiting for this Jihad loving left winger Nutcase Bobby? He used to post lot of Islamic BS all under the cover of communism. I find it strange that communists have been greatest supporter of Islamic nutcases.
    Today Pak PM Gilani has gone to communist china to get guidance on how to hide remaining Al-qaeda assets and fool America.

    I fail to understand why I never hear any muslim cribbing out chinese opression of Xinjiang muslims. Why don’t these america hating muslims and their dickhead communist sympathisers take on china?

    Is there an Islamic-Chinese alliance against the west and non-muslim countries?

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Gopi says – ….US has faults; but let us not pin them for causing the founding of Jehadism. That seed was born 1400 years ago in the sands of Arabia”"

    Bobby says…. Islamic Jehadism has its roots in the cold war conflict between the two super terrorists of the time- the USSR and the USA. That does not mean that there were no fundamentalists before that. “”

    Maybe both are correct in their own ways. But my bias is that I am fed up of the likes of Imran Khan who EVERYTIME he opens his mouth in Pak on ANY SUBJECT- Aafia Sidiqui, blasphemy law, target killings etc- he ALWAYS says- It is all America’s fault

    Bobby says America is a terrorist- sure- Vietnam, Nicaragua etc.
    But then so is UK and France- they even indulged in torture, and I have not forgotten 3 million bengali deaths in the famine
    So is Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi, Yemen etc- no explanation needed- terrorism, exporting terror or wahabism, needless wars- Iraq-Iran- they are all the same

    So sorry I accept all of USA’s known faults but wont call them terrorists. If they are- then I give them 5/10, and give Saudi 7/10 and Pakistan 20/10

    tajender Reply:

    ….US has faults; but let us not pin them for causing the founding of Jehadism. That seed was born 1400 years ago in the sands of Arabia””

    usa works for money.now they are using them in libya.

    tajender Reply:

    doc saheb zoinists qre creators of all type of terrorism.savarkar was great progandist of hindu muslim unity.in andaman jail he was brainwashed by zoinists.wahabism was created one memphire.hhe foole abdul wahab al najdi in najaf.he married him to to british prostitute working for mi16 in middle east.then start going there and took stupid fatwas from him which were used to kill turks later.they made this as state religion.later start using islam as an instrument of suppression..
    babri masjid movement was conspired in bombay by them.they were financiers of this movement.hindu zoinists lead by refugee and non indian advani lead this anti-national
    movement.idea was to create hatred and wedge between 2 major communities and perpetuate blood bath later.best part is this that pundit bhagwan daas and muslim claiment of mosque.goes to saryu river take oath ,they will allow zoinist to enter in ayodhya and create non-sense like last time.14 poor richshaw pullers and fruit sellers were burnt alive,they took
    the eyes of shia vice president of ayodhya unit of bjp.

    same shaitani they are doing in libya.one prisnor of guantamo bay is leading the revolt.he is ex-alqaida.behind him they are there.i have seen video they will cut the head of civil sevants of libya then take out their heart.crush the heart under foot.idea is to make enemity permanent.

    result they work for money we have to be careful.kerala is on their radar.i think syrian church
    belonging to high caste converts has been instructed to cooperate with zoinists start fight.

    in sab problems ko solve karne ke liye`bade paajee ka india ana zaroori hai.pure kerala ko puttar banaenge aur sabko guru nanak jee ke batate raste par le jaingee.aur mujhe moon pahonchaeinge.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, Outstanding, it was every penny worth. But where the hell this gravity emanates from

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan, Einstein taught us that Gravity is nothing but the geometry of spacetime. Think of space not as an empty region but as a rubber band, which can bend and twist. If a ball is placed on this rubber sheet, then it will bend, and the ball which otherwise would have traveled on a straight line, would go an a different trajectory.

    For a person on the band, it will seem like the ball is being acted upon by some force, but actually its simply an effect of the curving of the rubber sheet. Einstein showed, that this is exactly what gravity is. The bending of space and time has the effect of making us feel as if we are acted upon by a force. So in one line, gravity is the effect of the dynamical geometry of spacetiime.

    In the quantum world, its much more complex. Even though gravity is the most recognizable of all forces, its the least understood. Coming up with the quantu theory for gravity is still an open problem- in fact the most hardest problem in theoretical physics.

    Rajeev Reply:

    There are some muslim appeaser left wingers on this forum who call US the biggest terrorist. Let us look at the timeline of US involvement in Afghanistan and decide if US can be blamed for its actions-
    1. In 1979, USSR invaded Afghanistan.
    2. Both Pakistan & Afghanistan welcomed US help in their fight against USSR.
    3. The Bi-Product of this war against USSR was Pakistan-Afghanistan & other muslims becoming Mujahideens who later organized themselves into number of groups.
    4. The role of US was still provide logistical and material support to these Mujahideens who were helping themselves and US get rid of USSR.
    5. Once USSR withdrew from Afghanistan, US WITHDREW from Afghanistan.
    6. However Mujahideen groups who tasted blood did not disband themselves. Instead they started looking for causes and jump into them.
    7. As Indians we should not forget that Kashmir insurgency started right after withdrawl of USSR from Afghanistan. The Mujahideen groups entered Kashmir and rest is history.
    8. The same Mujahideens over the period of time started attacking non-muslims under the pretext of palestine, Chechenya, kashmir, Presence of US in mid-east etc.
    9. They made a cardinal mistake of attacking US on 9/11 (they had attacked US interests elsewhere too but US remained patient, they also bombed WTC before 9/11)
    10. Bush asked/requested taliban govt. sheltering Osama to give up Osama but Talibanis refused to co-operate citing their custom of protecting guests.
    11. When Taliban flatly refused to give up OSAMA ******* (this is the real cause of mayhem that happened later..even Iraq war can be linked to this foolish decision by Taliban), US attacked Afghanistan, wiping out terrorists. The civillian death were collateral damage and these should be blamed on Taliban not US.

    Now please tell me how and why US is wrong in Afghanistan. You can not expect US to behave like cowardly India.

    I think Iraq war was unnecessary. US could have taken out Saddam (who was killing both Shia and Sunnis in Iraq and also threatening west) in a covert operation.

    tajender Reply:

    Bush asked/requested taliban govt. sheltering Osama to give up Osama but Talibanis refused to co-operate citing their custom of protecting guests

    they were ready to give to third country not america.player cannot be refree.

    Rajeev Reply:

    BS..why third country? Why not their buddies America?

    Were they ready to handover to any country from NATO alliance?

    Taliban got what they deserved. US entered both Afghanistan and pakistan after it was attacked so don’t use US presence in these countries to justify your terrorism.

    tajender Reply:

    Taliban got what they deserved. US entered both Afghanistan and pakistan after it was attacked so don’t use US presence in these countries to justify your terrorism

    inspite of fact that they are f..kng them daily.

    shan Reply:

    @RAJEEV, you are absolutely right about the bullshit called Islamophobia. I can only talk about uk , from knowledge gleamed from sources in UK. From 1970 onwards ARABS AND IRANIANS ONLY were treated like a nobility in uk. The english know just whom to butter. In fact when someone made an documentary about the killing of a saudi princess , after she was discovered having an affair. The then Foreign minister in UK apologised in writing. Even in jobs in hospital , they were considered sometime even overriding the english candidate. BUT PAKISTANIS AND BANGLADESHIS BORN IN UK were bottom of the pecking order. And no doubt they suffered racism. But that one its own is not sufficient. Gujjus and Sikhs also suffered equally, but they were from a slightly higher socio economic class , so settled down in business
    But as they say IT TAKES TWO TO A TANGO.This lack of any acheivement and constant humiliation of arab/muslim world found a bogey man WEST/AMERICA
    This malcontent in the south asian muslim youth was EXPLOITED by AL QUAIDA /AL MUHAJORON , hook cleric abu hamza , abu quatada etc. This led to the radicalisation (say terrorist mate) and is still in full force in UK. MI5 is following 2000 plots.
    Also being a rationalist I have to say their is some innate problem in the social /family structure of the muslims (south asians) in UK.
    Take this fact. One bangladeshi about 60yrs , brought a 16 yr old girl into UK , as his daughter. You can bring daughter upto age 16 , BUT NO POLYGAMY. It was going ok , till the girl became pregnant , went to hospital and all was revealed . This was not his daughter , but his nikah from bangladesh. Poverty and inhumanity joins hands.

    RajX Reply:

    Shan my man, Phobia is rational. I am sure we all have a phobia for rabid dogs. Its a dangerously dumb person who doesnt learn from experience and history who doesnt have any phobias. What the world has is IslamistPhobia and not IslamoPhobia but its convenient for the Islamists to label people who have IslamistPhobia as IslamoPhobes because then its easier for the islamists to accuse you of religious bigotry. The islamists may not be wise or civilized but they are clever and cunning.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby ,the last one is even better than the first. Then Newtonian physics is out of the window, but then how is gravity free zone created , i have read if the plane flies at certain altitude and speed , then it is possible to create gravity free zone inside and I have seen it in TV , coca cola cans floating in the air.Also so what is centre of gravity , both for the earth and objects, and how come newton designated a precise value to it. Again your response will be much valued.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby , I am aware of the limitation of newtonian physics , in fact i used the example to correct Ashish’s assertion that laws of force are immutable, this is what i wrote
    Quote: First pardon me being pedantic. A small correction. Laws of motion are not immutable . in quantum world they do not hold water. A small example. Suppose you are travelling in bullet train 150miles per /hr.Your kids rather bored , get hold of a rubber ball and throw the ball from one end to the other end of the compartment. To you the ball will be say travelling at 40mile/hr , to an observer outside the train it is 150 mile /hr or more.(Not bad for a surgeon)Unquote

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Shan,

    I dont think it will help by discussing these things on blogs. These can are truly understood only by learning the relevant mathematics.

    The Laws of Nature are written in the language of Mathematics. So to truly appreciate these beautiful structures, one has to understand the concept of a metric, differential geometry etc.

    Firstly, Newtonian physics is not out of the window. It is a good approximation to Einstein’s gravity theory when gravity is weak, for instance on our planet.

    If you are far away from any matter source, then the curvature of the rubber sheet is small. In such a region, it would seem as if there is no gravity. The other way is to simply fall freely. A freely falling body does not see the effect of gravity locally. Of course if you freely fall, then you will crash, to avoid it, you move very fast horizontally, on a aeroplane- this will counter the effect of gravity.- the centrifugal force balances the gravity force.

    Newton found that the gravitational force between two objects goes inversely as the square of the distance between the two and proportional to the product of their masses. The constant of proportionality is called the Newtons constant. He found it from the work of Tycho Brahe, kepler, copernicus and Galileo. These scientists, collected extensive data of the position of the planets in the sky, and from them extracted simple laws as to how they travel.

    It was Newtons remarkable insight, that he could decipher that the conclucions and observations of these giants of science, can be summarized by assuming a very simple law of nature- the newtons inverse square law of gravity, which I have described in words above.

    As Newton himself said: I have seen more than others, because I stood on the shoulders of Giants.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    shan, itching to respond to your response to my question- phew- that was a mouthful !
    But just waiting for Bobby’s response, before I declare my hand. Not saying right now what my opinion on shan’s very open stance, is

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby , Many thanks, Fully familiar with inverse square law , was taught in detail in Scottish church school. but this horizontal movenent explains the zero gravity created by planes.
    regarding the curvature and smallness of object , is it same logic , that despite the spin of the earth , we dont fall off because we are like an ant sitting on top a giant revolving globe.
    Also could you please throw some light as to what is the source of earth’s magnetism.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    BALWINDER PAAJI- your jokes crack me up. haha-
    …or Ashish, if you really are going, pl take ramavtar / tajender / mustandan khan with you- we are drowning in his cut and paste here.
    release him just once a month to blog on a full moon night. The strange sound you will hear in Calcutta will be myself howling at the moon in frustration
    hehe…….
    did you read later, tajenedr is hiding from you under a table haha

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Bobby, with your knowledge of quantum mechanics, you seem to be an intelligent person. BUT YOU NEED TO DEVELOP THE HABIT OF READING CAREFULLY.

    I repost once again my owrds- …. Tony Blair taking us into Iraq was also a disaster, and in my opinion led to 7/7. ….If the Hague were to indict Bush and Blair as war criminals in the future I would support that…..
    ———————–
    I think that answers your questions above. Happy to elaborate, if you think it necessary. I now await your apology and post a question in return-

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    “ BUT YOU NEED TO DEVELOP THE HABIT OF READING CAREFULLY.”

    A habit sadly you, yourself are yet to form.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    ravi, I said some straight words to you yesterday. The others savaged you. The others can see it all above- related to your hurling obscenities at hindu Gods.
    You bid farewell to everyone here and said you were leaving for good. I wished you well in my heart.
    Now you are back ?? !!

    Ravi Reply:

    Do you know what that obscenity is.

    I bet You did not read it.

    All you did was have a go at me and supported Rizwan as you have a habit of doing.

    The plain fact is that you are biased and you do not READ.

    I am not back, but enjoying you being taken to task. It has been long overdue

    The more of that happens the more I will enjoy.

    Bobby Reply:

    No it does not. I saw what you wrote about Iraq. I asked you about afghanistan and the repeated drone attacks on the tribal areas of Pakistan.

    Bobby Reply:

    No it doesnot. I saw your answer on Iraq, and that is why I asked about the bombings on Afghansitan and the drone attacks on Pakistani tribal areas.

  • Dr Mishra

    Bobby- when did I say this- …Therefore just as killing of civilians by the US government is acceptable to you…
    If you have to debate, dont tell untruths.

    I also said- …Tony Blair taking us into Iraq was also a disaster, and in my opinion led to 7/7. But that is another tale.
    If the Hague were to indict Bush and Blair as war criminals in the future I would support that.
    Life is complex, do not pigeonhole me on the basis of a small post I made above….

    Pl read carefully before pasting. Your judgements is offensive and bizarre- …Osama’s. neither you nor him care for human life, as long as it serves your purpose….

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Ok, so here is a question for you. Did you support the bombing of Afghanistan for the last ten years, which has resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Afghani innocent civilains, in the attempt to kill a few members of the Al-Qaeda group? Are those “collateral deaths” acceptable to you, as they seem to be to many people commenting here?

    If your answer is no, then I apologize and take back my words.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    question to bobby-
    The Indian govt has learnt that Osama and or Dawood are holed up in a house in Ahemadabad and or Srinagar.
    You are the PM of India- what will your response be

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    it will definitely not be bombing ahmedabad.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Dr Mishra , I will send in the commandos , surround the house , with the media at full glare. Then I will announce in loud speaker asking him to surrender, if he does , then he will be brought to face the full force of law with his right to defend protected. But if he shoots , and the commandos shoot back and Osama dies , then an enquiry will follow , that the commandos followed rules of engagement , which they would have , and that is India I love.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    and Bobby, my original question remains- ….The Indian govt has learnt that Osama and or Dawood are holed up in a house in Ahemadabad and or Srinagar. You are the PM of India- what will your response be ??
    ———-
    I did not answer what you would not do- ‘I would not bomb Ahemadabad’– I asked you Bobby what WOULD YOU DO. You are PM, no ducking the question

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    I will give you the answer, but you will think I am ducking the question. I Would never be the prime minister of any state, because i am totally against any power structure- especially nation states. what i believe is the best form of self rule, is a form of anarcho-syndicalist commune- with no rulers and no state.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @bobby , that is END OF HISTORY , as propounded by francis fujiyama , but you will have to wait another three hundreed years for that to happen

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    no, Bobby, if you say ‘I would not bomb Ahemadabad’, you can say what you

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    no, Bobby, if you say ‘I would not bomb Ahemadabad’, you can say what you WOULD do?
    not that difficult. I know I would never be PM in this life myself, but I think I know what I would do?

    What would your commune- Osho OR Lord of the fies – do? I would like to know. No ducking please, this blog is coming to life

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Well, one would do exactly what one does in apprehending a crime. We resort to Police action. But always remembering that even one innocent person should not die in “collateral damage”, while capturing a criminal.

    Also more importantly, the attempt should always be to capture the criminal alive. Absolutely no assasinations. The criminal must be brought to justice in a court of law. Something the US did not do. They were never interested in capturing him.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    Does this not bring us to your original argument, that in the process of apprehending a terrorist, we ourselves should not become terrorist.

    USA did not do that.

    However, keeping to the original topic of this blog, isn’t the USA foreign policy – of supporting despotic dictators in the Middle East, the principal reason as to why radicalisation of Muslim youth took place.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, now that your mate whose real name by the way is anindyo not here to give you solace , i will be gentle.
    How about Indians getting radicalised against pakistan for constantly trying to bugger india.
    Also how about pakistan happy to accept US gravy train for sixty years , and why indian youths didn’t get radicalised against USA.
    And how about Egypt receiving 5 billion dollar aid from USA every year,.
    Brunei is a client state of UK(not USA) , which was carved out of malaysia ONLY FOR OIL.
    The king’s brother Jafri, has yatch called T I T S . haven’t heard of anyone from brunei involved in 7/7 bombing in London.
    The real reason is IMPOTENCE OF ISLAMIC WORLD , and this is the word of a clean shaven syrian scholar in interview with Boris Johnson In BBC.
    He said “This is the last gasp , before it gives way to liberal democracy”
    ALL THE ARAB STATES BARRING SAUDI WERE ARMED TO THE TEETH BY THE USSR
    WHICH WAS USED TO GOOD EFFECT IN OPPRESSING ITS OWN PEOPLE.
    Well Chechens have attacked USSR , haven’t heard of any arab contingent.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ravi/ISI agent

    You are too eager and too simplistic to blame US for the Islamic jehadism and violence.

    When Quitb joined Islamic brotherhood and became its primary evangelist, USA was not supporting any Arab dictators. Maudidi stareted his religion-politics-all in one movement long before USA was supporting tyrants.

    Quitb joined Jamaiyat-al-elKwan-al-Mulimin (Muslim Brotherhood) in 1950 long before a Mubarek was supported by US. he became its leading spokesperson, constantly after Nasser (a darling of Arabs)Nasser was no friend of America, and during cold war a leading member of the non aligned group. Quitb hated american society and American system of separation of religion from government; all his books such as Milestones etc that are the leading “jehadi inspiration 101s’ focused on the primary role of religion and how it cannot be compartmentalized. Quitb was arrested several times and spent time in jail; finally he was executed in 1966 for his attempt on Nasser’s life. Osama bin Laden is a follower of Quitb.

    Similarly, Maudidi, the dead leader of Pakistani Deobandi school, the leading isnpiration of Pakiistani jehadists also articulated and argued about the role of Islam in govt, how a religious leader can be and should be the ruler of the country, why religiuon cannot be separated etc.. Bangla Desh, not wanting to import PAkistani jehadism, recently banned Maudidis books in bangla Desh.

    Yes, the attack on iraq etc may have created a few jehadis who wanted to protect Umma. But the seedss were sawn long before and US did not cause it. It is like blaming a husband for marrying a beautiful woman.

    Islam and Mullahs contributed to the creation of jehadis. It is creating them every moment, as we speak. I have brought examples of what is happening in kerala – why should rich Muslim kids take a pilgrimage to kashmir and fight against our jawans? Why should Nazeer get training in Pakistan?

    Finally, some in the Arab world have woken up; youngsters are finding that their future is at risk, and they want a system of democracy, like in USA or in India where they can meet their aspirations. I do hope they succeed.

    US has faults; but let us not pin them for causing the founding of Jehadism. That seed was born 1400 years ago in the sands of Arabia

    Bobby Reply:

    Hi Ravi,

    “Does this not bring us to your original argument, that in the process of apprehending a terrorist, we ourselves should not become terrorist.”

    Yes it does. But in the case of the US, that’s not the point. Its not that in the process of capturing Osama, they behaved like terrorists. They are the worlds biggest terrorists.

    The united states of america is the only country in the world to have used nuclear weapons over a civilian population. The first to use chemical weapons over a civilian population. The Only country in the world to have been indicted by the highest judiciary of the world- the ICJ – The international court, of state terrrorism against Nicaragua.

    The fact of the matter is that any organization, which has power, behaves like a terrorist with less powerful people. The terror caused by an organization is in direct proportion to the amount of power it yields. The only known exception to this is the power of a parent over a small kid.

    People who try to find the source of Islamic jehadism in modern times, in books written in the first century AD, need to get their head examined. The Quran contains as much or probably less violence than does the Gita. Krishna (GOD) tells man (Arjuna), that he should kill his relatives for the throne of Hastinapura. I cant imagine a more violent statement than that. The fact of the matter is, books can be interpreted in any which way you want.

    Terrorism in the modern age is largely a product of modern politics. Islamic Jehadism has its roots in the cold war conflict between the two super terrorists of the time- the USSR and the USA. That does not mean that there were no fundamentalists before that. It means that those fundamentalists got powerful due to the support of the USA.

  • Dr Mishra

    SHAN AND BOBBY, thank you for your replies.

    Shan- you take Osama alive and subject him to a court prosecution process in India, then you are talking years. In the meantime, thousands of Indians around the world and in India would be at risk for bombings and kidnappings to barter for Osama’s release. Have you forgotten Mufti’s daughter kidnapping or Kandahar hijack.

    So, shan, no media, just a surgical strike – double tap, shoot to kill. I did say Osama and / or Dawood. A few frustrated Pakistanis and SIMI types would burn effigies, and within a month Osama and Dawood would be forgotten

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Bobby, same answer to you. But let me say something SHOCKING- real life is not that simple, not that cut and dried. No collateral damage at all- how I would wish for that, but sometimes the scoundrels do not give us that opportunity.
    Sometimes cockroaches like Osama do live surrounded by friends and family, and there can be no guarantees. Real life is cruel, not a syndicate commune pie in the sky, and I would want my PM and the forces to be very thoroughly professional and protect my life and the lives of 1.1 billion Indians to the hilt.

    The Americans did absolutely the right thing on this occasion an all counts-

    - no telling Zardari or Pasha
    - killing Osama and getting out quickly before the Pak army or PAF intervened – for then Hollywood would have had to make a sequel- FOUR BLACK HAWKS DOWN

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    3 trillion drama dedicated to unemployed and destitutes of america.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    boom boom Rajeev, this blog burns. My initial response to you is that I agree with your point nos 1-10.
    Point number 11 is when things get really messy. Still I respect you for saying so forthrightly what you believe in.
    - –
    I still await to hear from SHAN and bobby about my reservation / criticism of their approach

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mishra,
    The muslims and their fake sympathisers keep blaming US for all the terrorism from Islamists..Can they prove it? As far as my understanding goes there are two reasons for Islamic terrorism-
    1. Concept of Muslim Ummah…What is the need for muslims from pakistan to get involved in Chechenya, Tajiks in Kashmir, all muslims in Israel.. According to me Chechenya, Kashmir and Paletine are internal affairs of respective countries involving ONE aggrieved party.
    2. The muslim terrorists flash pages of Quran while committing acts of terrorism. Should we not hold Quran responsible for terrorist violence?

    US has used these dumbos to fight communism and protect its own interest. There was no religious angle from US side..It is muslims who used new found strength courtesy US help in Afghanistan against COMMUNIST USSR, to indulge in terror act.

    I also reject the word called ISLAMOPHOBIA. What about KAFIRPHOBIA in muslim world? The muslims demand to dress in their Islamic attires in west but why don’t they allow non-muslims to do the same in muslim countries? The muslims go around converting people and earning SAWAB but why don’t they allow conversions in muslims countries?

    Unfortunately tolerance has become a one way street and nobody is willing to take this head on. The muslims need to understand tolerance and respect are two way street.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    their Islamic attires in west but why don’t they allow non-muslims to do the same in muslim countrie

    europeans are wearing their dress evrywhere in muslim world.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Concept of Muslim Ummah…What is the need for muslims from pakistan to get involved in Chechenya, Tajiks in Kashmir, all muslims in Israel.. According to me Chechenya, Kashmir and Paletine are internal affairs of respective countries involving ONE aggrieved party

    except palestine muslims are not much in others affairs.
    but i they do what is yr problem.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    The muslims go around converting people and earning SAWAB but why don’t they allow conversions in muslims countries

    in pakistan thousands of muslims have embrassed christianity.what we can do if people are attracted to our message.100000 amricans convert yearly.indonesia converted while ruled by others.kashmir converted under dogra rule.iraq and afghanistan,even missionaries have not gone.they only heard and converted.
    vedic ram krishna paramhans has told that islam is the only religion which will survive at the end.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    “As far as my understanding goes”.

    Well thats the problem Rajeev. You are incapable of understanding anything beyond chacha chaudhuri comics. You can understand as much as a blind man can see, or a deaf person can hear.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    boom boom Rajeev, this blog burns. My initial response to you is that I agree with your point nos 1-10

    doc awnser

    tomorow if they attack india on same ground will u side india or america.
    they were ready to give to third party not to americans.why american wanted him.even britain dont give somebody to a country where his life is not safe.could take him to hague.this is all international gundagardi.they were stupids it is now 10th year talibans are winning war.they are on loosing.only killing civilians.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    shan- brilliant words above- got hidden
    a sample-

    ….How about Indians getting radicalised against pakistan for constantly trying to bugger india.
    Also how about pakistan happy to accept US gravy train for sixty years , and why indian youths didn’t get radicalised against USA.
    ……this is the word of a clean shaven syrian scholar in interview with Boris Johnson In BBC.
    He said “This is the last gasp , before it gives way to liberal democracy”
    ALL THE ARAB STATES BARRING SAUDI WERE ARMED TO THE TEETH BY THE USSR
    WHICH WAS USED TO GOOD EFFECT IN OPPRESSING ITS OWN PEOPLE.
    Well Chechens have attacked USSR , haven’t heard of any arab contingent
    ………
    like that, shan

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    After Bobby has joined, this blog has become very interesting and lively.

    Rajeev- I agree with you. Tolerance shoud be two way street. .

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    but all his points are based on propaganda not truth.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What is your truth? Jews-Hindus-Amrikan conspiracy to malign poor muslims????

    tajender Reply:

    i am awnsering u point by point read.all is propaganda material.u are presenting half truth.
    mullah omar was ready tto hand over ossama to third where he could face trial.why u are hiding this part of truth.attack on afghanistan was preplanned to control china and trade from central asian countries.after middle east new energy resources can be tapped from central asia.

    gussa bahut baqalmand hota hai hamesha kamzoor pe ata hai.

    no time was given afghanistan was attacked they were afraid if ossama go somewhere they have to find some other reason.
    but afghans f..kd them very nicely.now they will think 10 times before going somewhere.

    tajender Reply:

    ramchandani ,no of sindhis in muslim countries are more than india.so u know situation better than anybody.
    tell me which dress u or europeans are prohibited to wear.what i write about hindu spiritualism is right.when u are worried about us i am also worried about u people.

    jo mara hai bakre ne bakri ke seengh,
    to mare gee bakri bhi bakre ke seengh.

    as i dont unstand internal dynamics of yr society..u also dont understand about us.u know us through zoinist propaganda.one sindhi girl i met in america had an idea ,that muslims are cubans.she used to anti cuba propaganda and anti-muslim propaganda,

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    As I have said earlier whenever I need to laugh I read your posts.

    Tks for making me laugh. ha ha ha ha.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mo-Autar,
    You are posting propaganda and nothing else. When you are not honest about your name and identity, can we expect you to be honest on any issue?

    You are a good example of muslims who speak with forked tongue. The recent pakistan-expose is one such example.

    The fact is Islamic world is in denial and to justify this they keep manufacturing lies and feed converts like you.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mo-Autar,
    Why third country? Why not their buddies America?

    Were they ready to handover to any country from NATO alliance?

    US gave ample time to Taliban to hand over Osama…Don’t make up stories. I followed the events every carefully and nowhere I found US at fault. US in not India who will issue appeal after appeal and get screwed in return. India can not be template for other countries who have some self-respect, spine and muscle. India is basically a feminine country in its approach..first got slapped in 1947 with creation of pakistan and since then both China and pakistan have been kicking our sorry a$$es day in day out. No one takes India seriously at world stage..We are given a lollypop and asked to keep quiet because both Pakistan and China are heavyweight in world politics compared to elephant sized and rat hearted India.

    Taliban got what they deserved. US entered both Afghanistan and pakistan after it was attacked so don’t use US presence in these countries to justify your terrorism.

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    boom boom indeed Mishraji, enjoyed your jugalbandi with Bobby. Showdown at high noon more like- so who was dabang in the end ?

    Rajeev, your initial points were good. Before I come to the contentious ones- a request- why not avoid profanities with tajender ?
    Now -you say- ‘ However when Israel was formed, the land again changed hand & became jewish land. What is the problem in accepting this? The land of Israel and land of temple mount legally belongs to jews and muslims are illegal occupiers. ‘ that IS **** Rajeev- I would not want ANY Indian muslim to jihad over this, but it is a land grab, or shud I say steal. The Palestinians are beggars living in an overcrowded slum.

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    U ALSO SAID RAJEEV-
    India is basically a feminine country in its approach..first got slapped in 1947 with creation of pakistan ‘

    At the risk of being shot down, even if I am deliriously happy with my life in India, and even after seeing Pakstan go down the drain- if some muslims did want their own country- AND THERE WAS A GRADUAL BLOODLESS WAY OF ACHIEVING IT- can we not think out of the box and say good luck to them. Why does creation of Pakistan hv to be viewed by sanghis as some sort of a kick in the teeth.

    S I L E N C E – did I lose some friends here//

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rizwan,
    When I say India is a feminine country, I am only pointing towards its foreign policy.

    I have always advocated for equality in Indian society and that means muslims have right to stay in India as an EQUAL citizen just like others.

    As far as sanghis are concerned, they are no better than Jamaats except that they are not anti-nationals like Jamaats.

    Rajeev Reply:

    ” Why does creation of Pakistan hv to be viewed by sanghis as some sort of a kick in the teeth.”

    I am not talking about creation of pakistan but the repeated military and terrorist attack by them on India. Indian response except for 1971 has been very feministic.

    tajender Reply:

    jab war hotee hai yeh station par mithai batte hain aut chor bazaree aur jamakhooree karte hain yeh bhee aur border paar inke cousins bhee batein bade bade.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Rizwan says: boom boom indeed Mishraji, enjoyed your jugalbandi with Bobby. Showdown at high noon more like- so who was dabang in the end ?
    I dont know Rizwan, you tell me who was dabang. I enjoyed the sparring with bobby- dont know him yet, but he is sharp. The others know him from before and listening to shan and rajeev it seems he is – ‘a quantum physicist spouting jehadi communist ‘ Confused are you, so am I lol

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    by the way, young Turk, what you posted about partition was vaary provocative, as Balwinder would say

    Rajeev Reply:

    Bobby is not sharp but a cunning propagandist. Even I can post lot about quantum physics. Internet has everything.
    He is another Ravi and Ram Autar hybrid who will keep blaming US for all the ills. If US is so bad, why do these Islamic communists use american technology. Why don’t they use Camel power to fire their missiles? Yes, muslims have camel technology that fires missiles..It is secret technology. This technology even increases the missile range on the spot…Want to know how? Ask Mo-Autar.

    tajender Reply:

    we are not against america or americans.we are opposed to their foiegn policy and double standards ,which force them to open a new front.and plunder america.

    Rajeev Reply:

    American foreign policy is to take care of american interests. What is wrong with that?

    tajender Reply:

    American foreign policy is to take care of american interests. What is wrong with
    if the interest is robbery world will oppose this.

    Rizwan Reply:

    repost, dont know if others read it or not
    U ALSO SAID RAJEEV-
    India is basically a feminine country in its approach..first got slapped in 1947 with creation of pakistan ‘

    At the risk of being shot down, even if I am deliriously happy with my life in India, and even after seeing Pakstan go down the drain- if some muslims did want their own country- AND THERE WAS A GRADUAL BLOODLESS WAY OF ACHIEVING IT- can we not think out of the box and say good luck to them. Why does creation of Pakistan hv to be viewed by sanghis as some sort of a kick in the teeth.

    S I L E N C E – did I lose some friends here

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rizwan-

    British did the partition with the stroke of a pen in a haste. You are right it could have been done gradually.

    The zimmering border issues/sovereignty issues all over the world, including Palestine, are the results of british action/inaction.

    But now it is “long ago”, and blaming them will not solve the issues. These issues will take the forefront unless the country’s economy improves and people can look forward to a better future.
    I honestly believe Pakistan would not be a terrorist haven if it had land reforms, IITs and IIMs and NITs and other leading educational institutions, a bed rock belief in education to improve lives, With all the faults of our democracy, with all our problems, we have been able to instill an ethos of aspirations and aspirational achioevements in our people. That takes a country and its people a long way.

    You are doing an important contribution by giving livelihoods, by generating new opportunities for the people in your neighbourhood.

    shan Reply:

    @raju kurien, I fully endorse your view. but for all that to happen ,Pakistan needs to become a secular republic(an oxymoron in case of pakistan). Just visit the link i amproviding , scroll down till the end ,you will come across a photograph of a pakistani soldier , peeping through the lungi of a bangladeshi , to see if he is circumcised. This are far worse in current pakistan. Also as much the british have to share the blame for pakistan THERE WAS ENOUGH IN THE QUOM, WHO WERE SHOUTING “Jeet Ke Lenge Pakistan”
    http://www.genocidebangladesh.org

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shan babu, where you come up with these amazing links- and it is already becoming forgotten history. one of your own bengali women Sharmila Bose is saying nothing happened.
    oh btw- dont mind me saying so- your worship of bobby is little bit embrassing

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    These links are not some secrets. You have to have a open mind to look for this kind of info. but if you try to be politically correct all the time, you end up inventing nonsense and present that as fact which some people here call GEMS.

    tajender Reply:

    forgotten history. one of your own bengali women Sharmila Bose is saying nothing happened

    she is right only exposing fraud.

    tajender Reply:

    u can prepare any bullshit and get it printed.where are the graves or mass graves.where are bringanas.pakistan was divided through indian invasion not by bengalee uprising.one
    bengalee advocate asked for list of victims.awnser was jail(year back).hate is duty.

    RajX Reply:

    In hindsight, the creation of Pakistan has been benefecial to india in many ways. Its a fact that many muslims in british india were not reconciled to living in a secular democracy. Pakistan was created for such people. I think we should award a bharat ratna to jinnah for being a true indian patriot. This may be one of the reasons why even the BJP leaders seem to like Jinnah.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    rajeev- theekh bola- “”"what stops 57 muslim nations and their supporters to take US to task in UN “”"
    If you spent less time doing dishum dishum with tajender, you can speak sense.

    you also said- “”"I want to ask Bobby why are communist (athiests) are so supportive of fanactic Islamists. Why is it that they compulsively show reverence to Islam and fanatical muslims?”"”

    I can answer that. Communists are taught to blindly hate capitalism of which US is king. Over to you BOBBY, smoking hash in JNU campus, celebrating the latest Dantewada killings of policemen
    joke

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Somebody has to take on Changu-Mangu (Tajender-Ravi). We can not allow these nuts to post Jehadi propaganda and get away with it.

    tajender Reply:

    apni dhapli apna raag

    tajender Reply:

    forgotten history. one of your own bengali women Sharmila Bose is saying nothing happened

    u are relaying zoinist propaganda based on lies and imagination.

    RajX Reply:

    Rajeev, i think the Ravi and Tajender combo is great fun for this forum. Just imagine how boring it will be if we all agree with each other.

    tajender Reply:

    they are countries with muslim majority population.their rulers are supporting americans

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    tajender- what is this bipasha amar tapes

    tajender Reply:

    jab pyar sabhee se hota hai

    Rajeev Reply:

    Gadhe..Insaan ki Jabaan bol..kya yeh pakistani bak bak laga rakhi hai..

    tajender Reply:

    us did not give any time.target was to occupy afghanistan to control trade.ossama was added in list to rob saudi arabia.
    i cannot convince u against ur wishes.last week only they killed many afghan teens in air assault who were collecting wood for their chulha.in retailiation a afghan airforce officer shot and killed nine americams.
    zoinism is a predatory inhuman force.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    The only victims have been Jews, Hindus, zoroastrian, Buddhists, Native Americans, Africans and natives of australia..All of these people have been victim of Islamic and/or christian imperialism.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Yes, US gave ample time..Go back to pre-afghan war news archive. Bush was ready that if Taliban surrendered Osama, US won’t attack Afghanistan.

    You should be cursing pakistan who changed sides and sold your brothers for $$$$$…

    Zionism is not a predatory force but more like a defensive force. Islamism is the true culprit here.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    THEY ARE SOVEREIGN NATION WHY THEY SURRENDER.they are soveriegn nation.they disappeared ,prepared themselves and f…kd them at right time and right ferocity.destroyed their economy,threatened their super power status.
    pakistani are punjabi.they prefer alfaeda to alqaeda.ek punjabi se mera jhagda ho gaya
    bandook utha laya ,goli chalane wala tha,ki mere muh se nikal gaya 20 hazar doonga
    khush hua bola` jalhee lao.bandook de ke chala gaya.

    bade paajee,
    abhee mustandan hussain tarad aye they.bombay ho ke.film staroon ko dekhne ka shauk poora kar ke.kutch hizroon kee tarah act kar rahe the,maine pooch liya 6 maheena pahele
    to theek chakke kaise ho gaye,

    bola maan ki baddua se aur jitender ke sai se.

    Rajeev Reply:

    “SOVEREIGN NATION”…My foot..saale Bhikhari..

    tajender Reply:

    WITHOUT STINGER MISSILE , the mujaheddin wouldn’t be able to touch a single strand of russian army’s hair
    war against russia was not their war.they were fighting proxy war.it was zoinist war.they wanted to destroy soviet union to take jews to west bank.they were stupids.

    Rajeev Reply:

    So in effect muslims played in the hands of Zionists…Who is to blame? Stupid muslims or smart zionists.

    tajender Reply:

    yes supporting usa was their.biggest mistake.todays terrorists are yesterdays soldier of god.
    soviet union was better than usa.

  • tajender

    Do you think any of the MAWALIS(UK/USA/FRANCE) have any interest in Middle east.

    then leave the area.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    That area doesn’t belong to muslims…It belongs to pagans and christians…you muslims are illegal occupants..

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    locals converted like in india brhmns are and high caste are foriegners.same in arab world .

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    SORRY, this rajeev vs tajender is getting tedious. So watch this gem of a video- how Sheila ki jawani and Munni badnaam hui can subvert Al- Quaida
    http://reason.tv/video/show/bollywood-vs-bin-laden-why-rad
    Enjoy

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mishra,
    You want to have Tajender to have all the fun. I am just enjoying his jokes.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Zia assumes the responsibility to eliminate Jehads cause rests with others a k a Americans.

    One of the writers of Dawn has raised a question to Pakistanis//”do you want Osama’s Pakistan or Obama’s Pakistan” .. Each jehadi country should ask this question//

    Obama’s Pakistan or Yemen or Afghanistan may not bbe an utopia. But it sure beats where they are now. Or choose a different and better one. But Osama’s version of the country should be discarded. In that sense the responsibility remains with people of the countries and not with anybody else

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Aakhon mein Aansoo aa gaye bakwaas dekh kar…I think Bollywood is overestimating itself. If it was so effective why do pakistani muslims hate hindus to the gut.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    pakistani muslims by and large love india and bollywood both.

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    tajender, against my better judgement i will answer yr question. from early childhood my abba jaan told me and my brother to stay away from muslims like you. in every second sentence u curse india, hindus, sikhs.
    i will never intervene between rajeev and u, both exchange obscenities- hope that answers yr questions.
    i know u will not listen to Shoeb Sir, but he has made brilliant points above to you. u contribute zilch to this blog, just turn more folk against our quom
    …………
    Shoeb Sir, thank u for yr words. But be careful if u send yr kids abroad for study- 50% plus will not come back and India is full of BAGHBAANs
    ……..
    Mishraji. glad i made u laugh. Btw, your question abt wot 2 do with Osama if he got caught in a house in Osama- shoot him and let the commando be a muslim. But dont gloat over his death

    Rizwan Reply:

    sorry meant- Osama if he got caught in a house in Ahmedabad..

    tajender Reply:

    modi has killed more indians than ossama.shooting is for hiding truth.dead man cannot speak.nda was doing same in their tenure.all so called perpetuators of parliament attack,akhshay dham and 26/11 were muerdered.kasab request of sending cst cd to international lab for checking is rejected by court.

    why kill important people when they can be arrested.

    tajender Reply:

    i mean to say modi &parivar has killed far more indians in span of 33 years than osama.

    tajender Reply:

    .tajender, against my better judgement i will answer yr question
    awnsers are welcomed not certificate.like some corrupt high caste dont claim i am better they are bad.when u were silent rajeev why u attacked ravi.without knowing that ram was king not bhagwan.

    Shoeb Sir, thank u for yr words. But be careful if u send yr kids abroad for study- 50% plus will not come back and India is full of BAGHBAANs

    i agree with u.
    i come here to expose frauds not to take wahi wahi..

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    benoy, the link you posted from NYT was deeply flawed-what US shud do now- no mention about India at all
    silly statement in it- USA shud consult ergional powers like Saudi and China. oh yeah

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    oh yeah, India is the biggest player in Af Pak strategy besised US

    Shoeb K Reply:

    rizwan -

    i was using US as a metaphor – in the sense, with its so called problems (including the “so called creator of jehadism” as attributed by many Muslims/secularists on this blog), where will I send my children abroad (if they want to) for higher education – US wins hands down. In fact, all these “secularists” screaming loud will dpo that too… hypocrites they are

    RajX Reply:

    Yeah. Thats why mumbai, the capital of bollywood, was targetted for attack by pakistani muslim kasab and company. Hahahaha @ Tajender. Dude, you always make me laugh. By the way, didnt kasab claim that he came to mumbai to try for a chance for acting in bollywood movies? Anyways he ended up as the main actor in the Hollywood HBO series called “terror in mumbai” so he has exceeded his own expectation.

  • tajender

    ravi bhai kahan hain aap.mujhe shabashi dene walla koi nahin kitnee mushkil se likhta hoon.
    ashish tum bhi ghayab ho,

    zundagee naam hai mar mar ke jiye jane ka.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    riswan puttar, what you are saying now? Is a country a piece of cake that you cut a slice and put it in an adjoing plate. This cake bleeds.
    you are smart college kid and a nice boy. You will have to grow up a lot more to understand partition- my Punjab bled a lot during it.
    and were you not saying you Indian muslims were not for Kashmiri Independence? dont understand you

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Balwinder-

    The western partition would have happened if not in 1947, some years later. There is one side of me that says the division may be better off for India, because of the compromises that will have to be made in an elected parliament to win the support of affiliated parties.

    However, east Bengal would have stayed with the republic — at least based onn how Bangla Desh is evolving – their love for bangali language, a genuine adaptation of democracy, a focus on e ducation, women empowerment etc..

    Rizwan stated a pragmatic truth – there is nothing he could have done about Pakistan creation (there is enough blame to go around on that among leaders at that time), and there are lots he can do about Kashmir from a public opinion perspective.

    The big challenge for India will be how to control the border and jehadi flow from Pakistan when Pakistan unravels in the near future when they lose the US aid, when US army starts withdrawing from Afghanistan etc.. and what happens when terrorists get hold of dirty bombs and nuclear stuff ibecause the world knows elements of pakistani army are in cohorts with the terrorists

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    partition was conspired by rss and banias not by muslims.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Yeah. jinnah and Iqbal were RSS and banias. tajender dude, i love you. This forum would not be any fun without you.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    bobby, new boy, welcome from this sardar. just saw this echange of yours with mishrajee yesterday
    Dr Mishra says:
    Bobby, my question – ….The Indian govt has learnt that Osama and or Dawood are holed up in a house in Ahemadabad and or Srinagar. You are the PM of India- what will your response be ??

    Bobby Reply:
    We resort to Police action. But always remembering that even one innocent person should not die in “collateral damage”, while capturing a criminal. Also more importantly, the attempt should always be to capture the criminal alive. Absolutely no assasinations. The criminal must be brought to justice in a court of law. Something the US did not do.
    ———–
    I think you are JNU graduate- lovely style of writing, but zero governance when it comes to tough issues. Osama did not give a second chance to the thousands of NY. Capture him alive and bleed from a thousand cuts from islamists.
    sorry puttar, it was a very anaemic response- you have no idea of the reach of Osama and taleban

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Bobby says “When I talk about the US, I always mean the US government.”

    Sure…that’s why innocent american civillians were targetted on 9/11, daniel pearl beheaded and scores of americans killed by jehadis. All Islamists have declared that it is legal to target American civillians as per Quran.

    Why can’t these nuts engage US military in combat? If they had done so, there would never have been roles of civillians in any conflict.

    If Islamists/muslim countries and jehad loving left-wingers have so much problem with American foreign policy, what stops 57 muslim nations and their supporters to take US to task in UN thru a resolution. I am sure OIL rich muslim countries have ways to put pressure on US foreign policy. But they never take this route because these wars serve them as it helps them mask their own ill-goverenance. If Osama was upset with US troops in Saudi, why did he target WTC, why not Saudi Arabia?

    These left wingers alongwith Islamists are greatest danger to world peace. I can see two blocs emerging..one is China-Islamic plus a reluctant Russia and other is NATO-India-Israel-& pacifist Far east.

    I want to ask Bobby why are communist (athiests) are so supportive of fanactic Islamists. Why is it that they compulsively show reverence to Islam and fanatical muslims?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    All Islamists have declared that it is legal to target American civillians as per Quran.

    another bullshit by rajeev

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    India is doing great in Afghanistan…This is what makes me proud of ASSERTIVE India.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0z-818i2D0

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i agree with u.
    India is doing great in Afghanistan
    people like u are only shame for india.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    sure Bobby, take the US to the International Court for Nicaragua. Australia for aborigines. UK and France for torture and loot ( and throw in the crime of Suez as well)

    Oh there is just one problem. The Egyptians have forgotten it and moved on. How do I know- I dive off Sharm most years and see a mindboggling tourist industry which is bringing billions every year- 8 million tourists every year. And our regular dive school owner- called Mohd, what else- sends his kids through private school by taking French, Amreekans and Brits out.
    Life is too short to store bitter memories, and too complex

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    contd-
    Lets take them all to court.
    Iraq for Iran crimes and vice versa
    Iraq for kurds and Kuwait
    Indonesia for Timor
    Ruskies for Chechnya, Stalin’s genocide
    China for Tibet (incidentally who is that brave to take these last 2 !!)
    Peru for Shining path, or should it be Shining path for Peru- damn I am getting confused now

    trouble is Bobby- who is left. I prefer a world with US and Europe and India in it. Not sure if I could cope with a world that was dominated by the Islamo- fascist countries

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    rajeev, brilliant link above- everyone should see. Americans pour 50 billion in, and are hated. India pours in 1 billion, and are loved by Afghanis. They respect the projects undertaken by India and love Indian culture and people. Made my day

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    here is the link again- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0z-818i2D0

    tajender Reply:

    india is doing great un afghanistan.in all muslim countries india and indians are respected
    for their good work.

  • tajender

    doc saheb aap amar singh bipasha basu ke tape suniye.secularism zindabad.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    just for information of bloggers.,

    Every big city in India has a “den of the Jews” called Freemason lodge. The capital city, Delhi’s most important road, Janpath, where it touches the Connaught Place, has the Delhi branch of the Freemasons located in a sprawling prime locality — so well maintained even to this day. Calcutta, Madras, Bombay, Bangalore and other big cities have also such dens.

    What is the Freemason lodge? Nobody knows. It is all secret. It is a conspiratorial centre of the Jews and the “Jews of India”.

    The top-most people of a city are members of this lodge without even knowing what it is all about.

    Priests holding guns: We are reproducing excerpts from the book of the top-most Roman Catholic Pope who exposed the criminal conspiracies of this secret society.

    “Freemasons lodge” is the secret society of the Jews, as narrated by the highest religious authority in the Christian world. It is the Jews who killed Jesus and later divided the church into Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches and brought about so much confusion in the Western world.

    Again it is the Jews who gave birth to different Protestant religions to further weaken the Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church which mushroomed in USA was engineered and financed by the Jews who totally control the USA.

    President George Bush engaged the Evangelical church leaders to lead the American troops sent to destroy Iraq. These Christian priests were holding guns instead of the Bible.

    ——————————————————————————–

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    benoy sandhu jee and bhai rajeev,need ur expert comment on following,

    Muslims of the undivided India became the worst victims of Brahminism because Islam posed an all-round threat to its exploitative tenets. To escape from the horrors of Brahminism, Muslims ultimately sought partition (1947).

    Bengal had the largest concentration of Muslims and that is how the Brahminical terrorist party took its birth in Bengal to prevent the large-scale conversion of Dalits into Islam. Sir Sayyid Ahmed Khan of Aligarh was the first most famous Muslim to unite the community against Brahminism. Tilak, a Chitpavan Brahmin from Pune, became the father of the anti-Muslim war and violence by staging Ganapati festival. The first riot took place in Bombay in 1893.

    Dalits preferred Islam: A Bengali Brahmin, Bankim Chandra Chatterji, wrote the Anand Math, inciting “Hindus” to kill Muslims and also composed the notorious anti-Muslim song, Vande Mataram. When the persecuted Muslims, unable to bear Brahminical violence, appealed to the then British rulers they partitioned Bengal creating a Muslim-majority district (1905) against which the Brahminists launched a violent agitation. The Congress Party virtually became a Brahminist weapon. Tagore led the struggle against the partition of Bengal. The British were then forced to annul the partition.

    It is this unending Brahminical hatred of Muslims that forced them to seek a separate country.

    M.K. Gandhi, as Hindu leader, was the no.1 conspirator to drive Muslims out of India. Arya Samaj, became a violent movement to fight Muslims.

    The author says the principal grouse of the Brahminists was that the Untouchables of India preferred conversion to Islam by which they ceased to be Untouchable. It is the wholesale conversion of Dalits that upset the Brahminists because that decreased the “Hindu population”. To fight such conversions they started the RSS.

    All the top Brahmins like Tilak, Gokhale, Bankim Chandra Chatterji, M.M. Malaviya, Lala Lajpat Rai, Surendranath Banerji called upon the “Hindus” to arm themselves to fight and kill Muslims. This led to widespread anti-Muslim riots in many parts of India with hundreds killed. It was at this juncture the beleaguered Muslims launched the Muslim League headed by Jinnah to assert the rights of Muslims who then formed 1/5 of India. Arya Samaj was in the forefront of fomenting anti-Muslim riots. The Moplah rebellion of Kerala (1921) was a major event of all-India importance. Gandhi played an important role in provoking Hindus.

    Such an all-round prejudice and reckless physical violence naturally forced Muslims to seek a separate homeland (Pakistan) for Muslims. Allama Iqbal, the eminent poet, made this proposal in his 1930 presidential speech at the Allahabad Muslim League conference.

    Pendrel Moon, a noted British author of the book, Divide & Quit, said:

    “The Hindus say Muslims were brothers but would in fact treat them as less than step-brothers”.

    Abul Kalam Azad, a Brahminical stooge, was the only one who went with Gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    oh my word, the Pakistanis have totally lost it. http://tribune.com.pk/story/166047/prayers-for-bin-laden-in-national-assembly/

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bigotted Pandit, No pakistanis havent lost it, only ,two bearded nuts in pakistani assembly have lost it , just like one “raw sewage of hell caste” has lost it.
    Do keep in mind when you walk down the town centre in Leeds , you will be shouted at , so will be your children as “There goes the PAKIS”. So before getting too hyper about pakistanis , do keep this in mind. Also your same report says the speaker did not allow , but the nutter still went ahead , while the rest two hundreed odd kept away from it.
    There are plenty of nutters in mainly “cow belt”. like Togadia , Singhal and the Ram Sene , baboons, beating girls wearing jeans in Bangalore.
    Though according to your fellow caste brethren from east delhi, “India is getting urbanised , caste doesn’t exist , everything is hunky dory. The faces of the folks seen in TV in relation to the Rahul gandhi dharna(read nautanki) didn’t look metersexual , looked ganga kinare bala,illiterate, ill fed , ill clothed generally ill looking from the grind of harsh life which is tad different from the east delhi or the flats in dwarka

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    shan, there is something sleazy aby u. the whole of last month u hv spent spouting anti islamic bullshot, now this guy BOBBY comes along and u kind of go orgasmic. as paaji said above, yr worship of bobs is embarrassing.

    so now to prove his ’secular commie rationalist’ persona ( as u so nauseatingly remind us all again) you start having a potshot at Doc mishra. just the fact that some senators in Pakistan parliament r offering prayers for osama is vile enuff- u missed the point
    as usual- so wot’s new ??? i hv said a mill times before- it is depressing ur claim to be a doc- 2 shrill and superficial

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizwan , when a dog barks , men dont bark back

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    I just got back from USA.

    There is a sense of closure among Americans although there is a minority that says the President is politicizing the killing of Osama. The polls show a big bump for the President, op ed writers have been writing about “revenge and closure” that apparently is a central thesis of American ethos.

    Where will I send my son and daughter for higher studies if I have a choice — where will I like them to live if they want to live outside India – it will be US. And it does not have anything to do with dollar or money. For whatever any naysayers say about Americans creating jehadis etc, America remains a beacon wedded to the ideals of freedom, liberty.

    America did not create OSama. America gave funds to Pakistan to use freely as they saw fit to exppunge Russians from Afghanistan. TAliban, Osama etc all were “recipients” of the largesse.

    America is a story of 200 years. Violence in Islam and by Muslims as long since the Prophet’s days.

    America was not occupying any “Muslim land” when Maududi and Quitb propagated their unique Islamic governance, condemning western way of godless life. It was Nasser, the Arab darling, not a friend or admirer of US, who executed Quitb. Osama, Al Zahari etc are all “students” of Quitb.

    Rather than the usual blame game, it will be wiser for us to look into ourselves, introspect, and correct ourselves, rather than waiting for some action by, as usual, some foreign countries.

    A few in Pakistani media have started blaming Pakistanis and Pakistani military for the miserable situation of Pakistan, explicitly stating that it is time to stop blaming India, Israel, and US for all their problems. That is a good start.

    India and Indian Muslims should be proud that we did not create any international monsters (the discussion in US about who will replace Osama focused on a Pakistani – Iliyas Kashmiri, an ex officer of Pak army). There are always outliers; with all the faults and backwardness of Indian Deobandi School, it was Pakistani Deobandi School that created many leaders and foot soldiers of jehadi movement. Irrespective of any “root causes” of Islamic Jihad (it is BS anyway), the fact that Indian Muslims never got caught up in this craziness, speaks a lot about Indian ssytem – something worked. The internal skirmishes are all workable and solvable.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shoeb, you should post more often. Funnily enough, the name Ilyaas Kashmiri has been mentioned by doc mishra a few times last month also.
    @ riswan- your musing on partition of India is too long a debate. I notice that S SINGH and Raju have supported you. I still say- land is not cake that you cut, without bloodshed.

    @mishraji- lovly lines sir-

    “”"Lets take them all to court.
    Iraq for Iran crimes and vice versa
    Iraq for kurds and Kuwait
    Indonesia for Timor
    Ruskies for Chechnya, Stalin’s genocide
    China for Tibet (incidentally who is that brave to take these last 2 !!)
    Peru for Shining path, or should it be Shining path for Peru- damn I am getting confused now

    trouble is Bobby- who is left. I prefer a world with US and Europe and India in it. Not sure if I could cope with a world that was dominated by the Islamo- fascist countries”"”"

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Not sure if I could cope with a world that was dominated by the Islamo- fascist countries””””

    i fully agree but muslims are fighting for liberation ,not to establish Islamo- fascist countries”.muslim countries are liked by every even by european.30 yrs ago 25000 gernams cane to united arab emirates.not even single return.if u will come u too will never go back.it is better than london.
    neocorn and zoinists are destroying countries and civil societies for their economic benefit.in cairo they started christian-muslim riots in central asia uzbek tajik.i wrote before they worship shaitan not bhagwan.
    Division of india was crime against humanity.hidu zoinists and banias to be blamed for this.though muslims too reacted.it was one of the many foolish acts they did in last century.””

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    “””Lets take them all to court.
    Iraq for Iran crimes and vice versa
    Iraq for kurds and Kuwait
    Indonesia for Timor
    Ruskies for Chechnya, Stalin’s genocide
    China for Tibet (incidentally who is that brave to take these last 2 !!)
    Peru for Shining path, or should it be Shining path for Peru- damn I am getting confused

    balwinder u cannot take them to court as fighting was restricted to battle field.stalin was criminal being zoinist nothing new.but slobdan miloswitch and george bush were involve in civilian killings hence desrve international court one has already died in hague.other will not be tried because of american power.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shoeb,
    You nailed it.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    America did not create OSama

    shoeb if u say that america did not created ossama,u are wrong.they brought afghanistan to fight their war against russia.they have taken ossama to bosnia.so correct urself.americans are good but ignorant people.china japan and russia have not sent their children to america.they are far ahead of us.but there is no hatred against muslims in america.send them to canada.they hate americans.they are also educationally and technically more advance.dont take anything at the cost of ur self respect.

    hamas in palestine too was created by them when oslo peace agreement was signed after
    11 yrs of meetings.just to derail the peace process.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    America was not occupying any “Muslim land” when Maududi and Quitb propagated their unique

    nasser hanged syed qutub,could not finish his thoughts.brotherhood has good following among egyptian.more than abdul gamal nasser.he the product of imperialist slavery.now zoinists have replaced imperialist.american itself are enslaved by them.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @ShoebK , OUTSTANDING.
    FootNote: When the “scum and bum” limey(english) and frog(french), occupied Suez canal after nasser nationalised it IT WAS THE YANKS WHO DISLODGED THE JUDWA.
    America threatened to withdraw the support for sterling , the judwa withdrew their tails.
    The problem with current islam is, that there is no room for rationality.
    palestanians should accept reality , accept west bank and gaza , a token piece of jerusalem.
    If japanese allowed americans to write their constitution , and give away SHAKALIN islands (incidentally , there may be fair bit of oil in there) then what’s the problem with accepting the reality by the palestanians.Surely their life will be immeasurably better than what it it is now.
    With Lebanon , the pigs(oops) syria and iran should be kicked out ,and the christians and druze and shia should learn to be LEBANESE first.Are you aware there are more LEBANESE living in usa , canada , and australia than lebanon itself. one dr sharma told me he has visited Beirut in 60’s
    THERE WAS NO PLACE AS BEAUTIFUL ANYWHERE IN PLANET EARTH

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    lebnon was part of syria.divided by french.lebnese girls are modern.syrian girls rae beautiful.RIZWAN I RECOMMEND u..u will remember ur uncle.i have past some part of my life in
    beirut.i love the meditarrean fish and their drink,ark.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    The problem with current islam is, that there is no room for rationality.
    palestanians should accept reality , accept west bank and gaza , a token piece of jerusalem

    shan i agree though it is not right.but mabooree.u dont know the jews.they say but they will not give even that.uno gave them 45%of palestine.they are occupying 100%.

    for any lasting solution ISREAL SHOULD DECLARE BOUNDRIES OF THEIR COUNTRIES.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Balwinder pappi, bobby se panja na liyo. Uski ek chhez tusi nehi hai , woh hai DEEMAG(Brain)
    Yoh Banda Theoretical physicist hai. Ek sardar de naam batayo jisne physics mey upni kuch naam banayi.Yaad rakhiyo sardar de culture , agriculture hai.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    SAALA, MAIN CHUP BAITHA HOON, MUJHKO PROVOKE KAR RAHA HAI. TO LEY= vaar sambhal

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    FIRSTLY, ALL ENJOY shan’s random, intellectually empty rant- this is just a sample-
    +++++++
    shan says:
    February 6, 2011 at 11:06 pm
    @zia, .I think the success of gujrat has lot to do with the ARID climate … I have the authority to v
    comment on Indians from different states. OF ALL THE IMMIGRANTS TO UK GUJRATIS ARE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN EVERY FRONT. The sikhs are the most corrupt both in private life and in work, LICK WHITES LIKE HELL. Tamils are a two different sorts , the srilankan which are CREEPY, the indian which are PATHOLOGICAL LIARS and white posterior suckers, but they also put high premium on education.recent statistics shows 25%of pakistanis in UK are taxi drivers 75% of the women donot work.Now for my own community ,mostly GP’s AND BASICALLY INCORRIGIBLE, suffer from a massive delusion of granduer. As to the bengalees in West bengal ,this is a football team who are losing the game 10-0, thus dropped shoulders , petty , mean and small.In fact I have felt bengalees (that is exclusively WB)
    share a few common traits with english , some aspect of english life is GRAND , beyond description , yet there is is a considerble element which is pure stench.
    Yes I do call other people racist and Fascist.
    [Reply]
    ++++++++++++
    this garbage written by a doc !!!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    No offense but what is this chamchagiri of communist Jehadi Bobby…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajeev, I am not an internet hindu , I am a rational humanist , SCIENCE is my creed, that is why i have regards for him , for he is working with some cutting edge and profoundly abstract concepts. Perhaps you are not aware , I had clashed with him several times in the past , like the bombing of hiroshima, ayodhya judgement , police brutality , and javed akhtar etc. i can assure you the exchanges were quite animated.Now we all have declared our hands , you have not. I dont know what is your background , science, commerce ,marketing IT whatever.
    As science is my creed I have to be objective
    Bobby has written bold and clear , USSR is a super terrorist , hardly a language of a communist.
    Also most of the guys who visit these blogs are not well read . most of them pass opinion as there is no tax, some so enamoured with the cadence of their script , doesn’t care about the supporting evidence(Ashish)
    If you please please please read the book THE ARABS you will see the Problem with middle east is not that simple as it appears . The arabs(except saudi) have been kicked around by the european powers for centuries , starting with NAPOLEAN’s colonisation of egypt.
    But there is no denying the Islamic religion’s vice like grip on the populace is one of the main reason for the backwardness of its adherents.
    At the same time only a cretin will say American foreign policy is not a complete F… UP.
    They have screwed up in vietnam AND HOW ABOUT USA’s ROLE IN BANGLADESH WAR,
    IRAN , 2nd Iraq war and the most vilest is SOUTH AMERICA, its punishing or starving of CUBA but sucking up to china by NIXON and the Kissinger , who was described as WAR CRIMINAL by a pretty right wing guy, the recently deceased CHIRSTOPHER HITCHENS
    There is no denying USA used Agent Orange and Napalm in Vietnam.
    I recommend you watch the film SALVADOR by Oliver Stone.
    Given my background you can hardly expect me to behave like the “time pass” bloggers.
    I am too sophisticated for those banality.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    No one is claiming you are internet Hindu. Even if you are, it is not a crime. Internet hindus battle with words not bombs as internet Jehadis and their communist supporters like Bobby do.

    “why i have regards for him , for he is working with some cutting edge and profoundly abstract concepts.”
    He is just making a fool of you. His thought process is not that of scientific mind..He is more of a propagandist just like communists and Islamists.

    I too am in field of cutting edge technology but I don’t go around in POLITICAL blogs brandishing my scientific background because I like to keep my profession and political thoughts separate.

    It has become a fashion in these blogs to brag about backgrounds. You never know there are people with much better and flashier backgrounds on this blog.

    I have seen both North and South Block and believe me, no one cares of AAM ADMI…

    tajender Reply:

    But there is no denying the Islamic religion’s vice like grip on the populace is one of the main reason for the backwardness of its adherents

    shan i congratulate for writing so nice.but try to understand that arabs prefer backwardness to enslavement.can see urslf how libiya is being treated and saddam earlier.their economic interest above international law.

    arbs are not backward they are poor.and victim of system created by west in these countries.ossama son or ghaddafi son are definitely more western than any indians they accept new ideas more faster than us.their iq is very good.even if we have money like them,we cannot built infrastructure like them.

    lebnon is country of gods imagination.from food to people,everything is beautiful and tasty.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    @ SHAN BABU, too good to last. You have relapsed into cheap stoopid behaviour again. So lets spank you- why a doctor invites a public humiliation is beyond me.

    1. I said yesterday when commune living BOBBY came on your sucking up to him was embrassing- TOE CRINGING. BOBBY BOBBY I AM HERE, lets talk gravitrons, even when he cooly suggested the blog was not the best place
    2. Then we all sat in the sidelines as we witnessed a very gentlemanly duel between bobby and mishraji which ended with a dignified apology from bobby (he the man !!)
    Everone applauded- what happened- SHAN GOT JEALOUS- as riswan- the sharp shahrukh of this blog- commented, SHAN suddenly stopped his anti islamic barking of weeks and took a swipe at doc mishra
    3. shan babu, the ppl who are RESPECTED BY MOST in this blog are- Gopi, Mishraji, syed bhai, shoeb, hegde, kurien, ashish and Vinay etc.
    shan puttar you are not one of them-
    learn some tehzeeeb and TAMEEZ before swiping at others or provoking me- YOU PATHETIC ?????DOCTOR??????

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Please stop giving certificate to others. Who is respected or not is not the issue here?

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    An article on what US should do with Pakistan

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/opinion/12khalilzad.html

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    A neighbor of dead terrorist leader Osama bin Laden says the man seen in new videos released by the US government is actually a friend of his and not the Al Queda founder.

    “His name is Akhbar Khan (Han), He owns the house that was Osama’s house. I know him very well,” a Pakistani man named Shabir told the BBC.
    Shabir says he is his a neighbor of the man.

    “It’s all a fake, nothing happened,” Abbottobad resient Mohammed, who has been selling newspapers in the two for the last 50 years, told the BBC.

    Out of the 50 Abbottobad residents interviewed by the BBC, only one believed that Osama bin Laden was in their town. Others claimed the pictures and video of bin Laden in his home are fakes made with a computer.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Tejnder/Ram

    People like you are part of the reason why Muslims are backward and hated all over.

    You may be thinking you are helping; but you really are hurting us.

    So, please

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    the above is from bbc.part of bbc interview of abbotabad locals .i know it is wrong.they are innocent.i dont need any certificate from u or from any body.we should not compromise our respect ,to be rich.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    tejnder

    there is no honour in constantly blaming 30 million jews for the plight of 1.2 billion muslims ..there is no honour in barraging a minority brahmins – 15-20 mill max – for the plight of 180 million muslims in india.. this is 21st century.. india has problems, but the playing field is levelled every day.. so also in many other countries..

    your blaming usa and india and israel for pak problems is a toytal intellectual bankruptcy; something that is the root to muslim problem; a total inability to look into oneself, and the constant eagerness to blame other factors all the time 24 hrs/7 days

    tajender Reply:

    the following is part of speech by menachem begin in israeli parliament,

    “Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine goods on this planet. We are as different from inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be reuled by our leader with a rod of Iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

    can u deal with somebody who has mind set like above.

    Rizwan Reply:

    Shoeb Sir, respect to you. You write in velvet terms. Dont know why if we have you, me, Syed bhai, L Mirza etc on this blog, and Shahrukh, Aamir, Zaheer and Munaf etc outside this blog- do we Indian muslims still have a negative inmage.

    Ist it cos of Ravi-isi, tajender-ramavtar and bobby here- and their cousins outside?? But the hindus hv much worse specimens – mulayam, mayawati, karunanidhi -and yet they have good image?
    bloody hell not fair. I mean imagine if Amar Singh was muslim I would cummit suicide

    Rizwan Reply:

    gut feeling – bobby is a hindu leftie- militant to boot- wish he wud stay away from muslim causes, without meaning to, he makes our life harder.
    ok- new resolution- no more late night blogging- got a long drive tomorrow

    tajender Reply:

    mulayam, mayawati, karunanidhi
    they are far better than others.who told u they are bad.

    tajender Reply:

    You may be thinking you are helping; but you really are hurting us

    we dont come here not to help or hurt anybody.i will give my views u have full right to reject it or discuss it.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Rizwan,

    Do the right thing, be confident — Dr Abdul Kalam is respected by 90% of Indians – ythey do not imagine him as a Muslim, but a highly respected Indian.

    Coming to your question about negative image – part of it is media creation, part of it is a creation by the action of our own so called leaders, patrt of it is political/vote consolidation tatctics — at the end of the day, good Hindus like good Muslims and good Christians.

    Part of the reason is that we are seen as a monolithic block concerned only about religion – this image is caused by our leaders” and our secular friends effort in projecting any Muslim’s issue anywhere as a Muslim community issue. Perceptions are sharpened when our leaders and religious leaders do not come out in force (like Shahrukh etc) and condemn terrorist and other national fabric weakening activities. You touched on another related item – why is Mayawati, Karunannidhi etc not rubbing on Hindus – They are attacked, from a party perspective, and not a rleigious perspective.

    Worldwide terrorism unfortunately lumped all of us in one category. Sans that, when a Muslim committed fraud (like the stamp paper case) or other frauds, nobody said all Muslims are frauds. Part of it may be Hindus have their own more than fair share of frauds.

    I am of the firm opinion that any negative connotations will vanish when terrorism declines. India is the ideal and right place, like USA for Indian Muslims – opportunities for a bright person are unlimited, either to excel in a professional area, or in arts, or in wealth creation. We have to convince the naysayers in our community that the negatives they are facing are no different from the negatives a Hindu from a similar socio-economic background is facing, and not a part of a calculated state ploy.

    Dr Abdul Kalam was a hero for all Indian children- no other leader/politician was able to capture their imagination.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    haha, you made me laugh Rizwan- ‘…hindus hv much worse specimens – mulayam, mayawati, karunanidhi -and yet they have good image? bloody hell not fair. I mean imagine if Amar Singh was muslim I would cummit suicide…
    I guess Amar is not flavour of the month.

  • Rizwan

    balwinder paaji, why waste breath on shan. SHAN IS SHAN- dont know if u noticed sumthing funny in the last week.
    ASHISH was really ripping into SHAN. Dont know what got into doc Mishra, he told ashish to ease off, said the dude had suffered enuff. then r man shan started sucking upto doc mishra next 2 days- Dr Mishra this and Dr Mishra that- lol I thought SHAN had become civilised.
    THEN BOBBY comes along and as you and rajeev noticed SHAN almost became orgasmic- his boot liking of bobs was almost pathelogical.
    SAuddenly it was bak to being ARS%HOLE SHAN, swipe here, swipe there-
    ——————-SHAN- BESHARAM – ek doctor banke itni maar khaata hai sabse. shall we call ashish bak

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizwan , Baap or Abba ka paisa me pulne wala mauga , apna himmat kuch nahin , yes obidient , shackled, kutta se kya baat karey.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan i agree with u.why u were silent when rajeev was abusing his prophet.it means u are only chamcha.like any other weak opportunist. middle class muslim.blog par aao honesty se view dene ke liye.doosron ko khusk karne ke liye.log tumhe weak aur idiot samjenege.
    u have earn ur bread urslf.what i feel u are making them fool.
    dont pass any comment on next.u dont know the abcd of politics or history.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Bobby, your lines
    “In fact that is precisely why the US has imposed dicatators in all these countries. Yes the people of these countries, indeed want to get the US out of Arabia, but they cant, because there are dictators in all these countries, again to repeat, with full US support”
    Well only if life was that simple. How do you explain the current scenarion in LIBYA. USA has fired 150 Tomahawk missiles costing around 300 million dollars.Nato is bombing the hell out of the gadaffi .
    On the surface a great effort ejecting a dictator . Scratch deep, the game plan is replace gadaffi with anything any one , COMPLIANT , so that oil pumpimg and EXPLORATION begins in full force.

    Regarding Pearl Harbour , remember USA had no incentive or interest in getting involved in Europe.THERE WAS PLENTY OF AMERICANS INCLUDING THE DAD OF SLAIN JFK AGAINST GETTING INVOLVED.
    Churchill was happy to see his daughter-in-law sleeping with Roosevelt’s chief advisor , so that the usa can be dragged into the ww2.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan very nice of u telling truth.america has become evil empire.removing ghaddafi is the duty of libyan. not americans.they have gone there to rob their wealth and sell arms.at the end it is libyan who will pay 300 million dollars.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    riswan puttar, khush keeta. tajender, ladka hai, lekin kuch isse seekh sakhte ho.

    also riswan, in your quiet way YOU GAVE THE BEST ANSWER to mishraji’s question- Mishraji. glad i made u laugh. Btw, your question abt wot 2 do with Osama if he got caught in a house in Osama- shoot him and let the commando be a muslim

    it was a quiet answer but BOOM BOOMED ALL THE WAY. Bobby, in comparison your response was anaemic

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    shan and shoeb,

    21st century fascism in the United States

    I don’t use the term fascism lightly. There are some key features of a 21st century fascism I identify here:

    1.The fusion of transnational capital with reactionary political power
    This fusion had been developing during the Bush years and would likely have deepened under a McCain-Palin White House. In the meantime, such neo-fascist movements as the Tea Party as well as neo-fascist legislation such as Arizona’s anti-immigrant law, SB1070, have been broadly financed by corporate capital. Three sectors of transnational capital in particular stand out as prone to seek fascist political arrangements to facilitate accumulation: speculative financial capital, the military-industrial-security complex, and the extractive and energy (particularly petroleum) sector.
    2.Militarisation and extreme masculinisation
    As militarised accumulation has intensified the Pentagon budget, increasing 91 per cent in real terms in the past 12 years, the top military brass has become increasingly politicised and involved in policy making.
    3.A scapegoat which serves to displace and redirect social tensions and contradictions
    In this case, immigrants and Muslims in particular. The Southern Poverty Law Centre recently reported that “three strands of the radical right – hate groups, nativist extremist groups, and patriot organisations – increased from 1,753 groups in 2009 to 2,145 in 2010, a 22 per cent rise, that followed a 2008-9 increase of 40 per cent.”

    A 2010 Department of Homeland Security report observed that “right wing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on the fears about several emergency issues. The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for right wing radicalisation and recruitment.” The report concluded: “Over the past five years, various right wing extremists, including militia and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruitment tool.”
    4.A mass social base
    In this case, such a social base is being organised among sectors of the white working class that historically enjoyed racial caste privilege and that have been experiencing displacement and experiencing rapid downward mobility as neo-liberalism comes to the US – while they are losing the security and stability they enjoyed in the previous Fordist-Keynesian epoch of national capitalism.
    5.A fanatical millennial ideology involving race/culture supremacy embracing an idealised and mythical past, and a racist mobilisation against scapegoats
    The ideology of 21st century fascism often rests on irrationality – a promise to deliver security and restore stability is emotive, not rational. 21st century fascism is a project that does not – and need not – distinguish between the truth and the lie.
    6.A charismatic leadership
    Such a leadership has so far been largely missing in the United States, although figures such as Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck appear as archetypes.

    title of full text is

    Global capitalism and 21st century fascism

    The global economic crisis and the attack on immigrant rights are bound together in a web of 21st century fascism.

    on al jazeera tv network.

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    Rizwan-

    For your question on Karunanidhi, mayawati etc… Just see how we drowned Karunnidhi in the elections.. People do vote right sometimes! He and his family are out from politics for a long time…
    And the iron lady will go after them doggonely

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Shoeb who is this iron lady- Sonia

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    balwinder-

    jaya lalitha

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    next election they will be back.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    ravi bhai i want ur comment,

    MUSLIMS KICK OUT MARXISTS BUT GET FOOLED BY A FEMALE MONSTER

    Blood-thirsty “Calcutta Kali” gets ready to take over Bengal : Big victory for Bhadralok
    . Our time-tested thesis is once again proved in the latest W. Bengal civic elections in which the mere 8% Brahminical Bhadralok controlling the Bengali marxists party was thrown into the Bay of Bengal. Good news.

    If you want to see what the record 33-year-old unbroken, murderous manuwadi marxist rule did to Dalits, Muslims, OBCs, please go to Calcutta — reduced to one big stinking slum. The people — simply reduced to mere skin and bone — live like worms. The worst sufferers are the Muslims who form about 30% of the state population.

    now they have Jumped from frying pan into fire.
    But look at what the unthinking Bahujan victims of the manuwadi marxists did? They jumped from frying pan into the burning fire — lit by the notorious “Calcutta Kali” — eccentric, unpredictable and 150% Brahmin.

    She uses the crumpled cotton sari, and lives in a slum-like locality to hide her crores. The new female face of the vulture in disguise has deceived the innocent Bahujans. The Bengali Brahmins groomed, nurtured and painstakingly built up the monstrous Mamata Banerji to take control of Bengal and she will suck the last remaining drops of blood of the Bahujans and will rule for another 20 years.

    Marxists cheated Muslims: Marxists may boast “they ensured social peace” between Hindus and Muslims. But who wants this peace of the graveyard ?

    Marxists cheated Muslims. We understand their total disenchantment with the Manuwadi marxists. This is fully understandable.

    Muslims form about 30% of the state population and in the eastern part they go up to 40%. The heartless and less than 8% Brahminical Bhadralok controlling the CPM, hated the Muslims

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Tejender , my favourite topic, WB elections.
    Rather than rely on copy and paste from Dalit website , let me give you an authentic appraisal.
    WB is down but not out. Will be surprised to know in GDP terms it is above Gujrat and TamilNadu. It had made some strides in agriculture , it has the highest production of rice. But these communist have indeed RUINED the state. It received only 1% of the total FDI (FOREIGN INVESTMENTS) that has come into india . But ask why one muslim man who had lost his entire family in Gujrat riot choose to settle of all the places WEST BENGAL. There has been no major riots in WB for last FIFTY YEARS.(i am aware of deganga , but that was muslim on hindu, and was put down quickly). The entire import of Nepal takes place through calcutta port. The tea and jute used to be india’s main foreign excahnge earner till 1975.The HQ of eastern command is based in Calcutta , as is the ordinance factories. Even though 70000 industry has closed down , still it is like a pyramid , there is massive left ., Durgapur steel , all the birla factories , HQ of ITC ,
    HQ of East india hotels(Bombay centaur), s o it is not lucknow or patna or amritsar or Kochi
    it is a place that has heritage , even paul thoroux who visited all over india was mightily impressed by calcutta and its colonial architecture, so was another british reporter who commented”This is a place where one feels intellectually at home”. Eden Gardens is the greatest stadium of india and perhaps one of the top ten in the world . Greatest of all WOMEN ARE SAFEST IN CALCUTTA , compaed to all the metros , and COMMUNAL AND CASTE BASED POLITICS HAS NO ROOT HERE. But yes brahmins are there in politics in a disproportionate number.Also mamata is not important , it is her ministers , lets hope Amit Mitra can deliver . Though I know of one Guju, from very close quarter, her shadow , he is a dodgy character.(la Amar Singh) But he is the conduit through which the marwaris are pouring money into Trinamool

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    statements like “”"But yes brahmins are there in politics in a disproportionate number”"” display your pseudo rationalism. It is cretinal to make stoopid sentences like that. After all the lower castes like you are not exactly paragons of virtue, good language or class as you display by your own utterances on this blog.#
    i look at individual, not caste and religion
    chhoti galti, chhoti daant

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    in bengal everything goes by caste.

    tajender Reply:

    i agree that bengal is down but not out.bengalee s are the most intellegent people.but chance will be ghiven to everybody.cpm came to power because muslim votes.i was secratary of sf.\cpm has gone because of muslim votes.after giving them chance to work for 34years.
    musalman bandar nachata hai.they were thankles and stupid both.
    i bhope things will be better under mamta.
    last time brhmns and marwaris used to perpetuate communal riots.my elder brother has to leave calcutta because of riots.he lost his bussines .he had airconditioning shop in park circus..muslims are thankful to biman bose for finishing this disease.
    neverthless hope for better.samay balwan hota hai.marwaris are the jews of bengal u will have them with strong hand.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    shoeb, you are too optimistic. Jayalalitha is no iron lady. She herself has been mired in corruption for last 15 years, although nothing as major as Karunanidhi. I am happy to see him and Kanimozhi under pressure, but elections in India are like musical chairs- today DMK tomorrow AIDMK. When Jaya is under pressure for some scandal of her own the the Karunanidhis willl move in and get pardon for their own.
    If howevr, Kalmadi and Kanimozhi do get convicted- THEN THIS SARDAR IN ENGLAND WILL OPEN THE MOST EXPENSIVE BOTTLE OF SINGLE MALT WHISKY in Uk and celebrate

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    add Sharad Pawar to that list although the man who catches Pawar will have to be vaary vaary smart

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    ravi/ISI

    Looks like Ravi is called back by gen Kayani and gen Pasha.. They need his smartness to fix things there!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    All

    I have been hounded out of this blog. I have actually also left this mortal word, I am now safely living with my master Osama Bin Laden as his butler, and I have a good share of his Virgins. Well actualy they are “born again” virgins by the time I get access to them.

    Rest assured that I have absolutely no intention of coming back.

    What may also delight you, is that your able agent Sardar Bhadur Sardar Balwinder Singh Ji, Langar kahan walley, from Heys, is even hounding me in Vinod Sharma’s blog.

    So my days (hours) even there are numbered.

    Sorry Tajendar, I am sure your are big enough and smart enough to deal with reactionary trollops here all by yourself.

    I was hoping that by me not being here the blog would focus on points rather than personalities. However, that seems not to have happened.

    Regards

    Ravi, Ex ISI Agent, but still Shan’s Kuttar

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Well, Vinod is another Pakistani agent too.. He joined Mani Sankar in criticizing US nabbing of Laden

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    everybody is not idiot like u.

    tajender Reply:

    who hounded u out .dog barks carvan chala jata hai.there are lot of ignorants on this blog.i am with u.i hope ashish too will back.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i miss u & ur contribution to blog.

    Rizwan Reply:

    @ravi- humour not your strong point dude.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Langar kahan walley, from Heys, is even hounding me in Vinod Sharma’s blog.

    edhar se suno udhar se nikalo

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Ravi, Ex ISI Agent, but still Shan’s Kuttar

    in ke paas 2 ya 3 batein hain.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Raju ban gaya gentleman- I am vaary cross with you, why did you even mention RAVI’s name. phir se aa gaya besharam. pl do not give him any opportunity to come back. Not for Osama, but we will hold a prayer meeting for ravi now

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    but wait Houston we have problem. Do we get a pandit, or a mullah or should Ravi’s death prayers be held at a gurudwara. I dont think even he knows- but his constant abuse of hindus ans sikhs and india- does that give a clue. hmmm do we see a green passport somewhere

    hehe

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    yeh uska doosra janam hai.7 janam hote hain.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Navy Seals found lot of porn videos at Bin Laden’s compound. What a scum!!! He himself was watching these porn and humping his wives whereas zomby muslims were blowing themselves up for him. He was surely a low-life scum.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    well, he promises them 72 in after life!

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @RAJEEV are you serious , links please. Though his wife said he used to take herbal anti impotence tablets .

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    he was normal human being only thing he had personal enemity with bush.he never claimed himself to be holy figure.only differenc that he was billionaire but like buhddha choosen the life of pain to luxury of palace.millions and millions of people are thankful to him for his role in
    bosnia and afghanistan.
    alliance of 48 countries headed by nato is failing in afghanistan while network of alqaida is getting stronger everyday all over world.
    yemenis and saudis have very very high sex urge.NO RELIGION COULD CHANGE HUMAN BEHAVIOUR.
    this may be part of propaganda as well.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Tejender, Dogs also have high sex urge , that is why they do it anytime anywhere , but they DONT WATCH PORN before going for the act

    tajender Reply:

    do u watch porn.except paajee i am sure that everybody here see porn what is wrong.he was not holy figure.also u never know if it right or wrong.most of the times they contradict themselve.
    yemenis are better than dogs 7per hour.

    Rajeev Reply:

    I can’t beleive this. When Jihadis like Tajender were masturbating their mind with Jihad, Osama was masturbating himself watching porn and keeping Quran on the side.

  • Binoy Hegde

    Hi, look at this proud son of India.. sardarji boy doing good for us! he is a potential future presidential material.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/u-s-attorney-sends-a-message-to-wall-street/

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @ShoebK., your words” Perceptions are sharpened when our leaders and religious leaders do not come out in force (like Shahrukh etc) and condemn terrorist and other national fabric weakening activities”
    Well your Shahrukh is the problem rather than the solution. Why does he punctuate every second word with INSHAALLAH, no wonder the rest of india thinks muslims are too much hooked on the “OPIUM OF THE MASSES”. Every body parroting the same mantra , Islam is a religion of peace , it is not , NONE OF THE RELIGION ARE , YOU CANT BE IF YOU ARE COMPETING IN OPEN MARKET FOR CONVERSIONS. Not a single muslim individual have come on the TV or newspaper and said “Islam is a religion like any other religion , it has its good aspects and vile aspects , the purpose of religion is gives us a cultural mooring it gives us solace in times of distress. But in practical terms it has nothing to offer, so people should concentrate on personal betterment , and not get distracted by knitty gritty of theology”. Javed Akhtar is happy to point out that Ravishankar is fraud , but UNDERSTANDABLY frightened to speak about the Quoran, its redundancy or the ridiculous nature of its claim of infalliability.NOT A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL HAS STUCK THEIR NECK OUT.I do not need to struggle hard in defence of my argument. Shah Bano Case is the reason why Hindus have a uncharitable view of muslims and barring Arif Mohammad Khan no one has come out in the open for a uniform civil code. Its like saying muslims dont need polio vaccine , they have UNANI medicine.
    At the core of the problem is this FEAR OF VIOLENCE. Now if any religion or community needs to resort to violence to counter any argument or idea , then obviously it is quite primitive in its stance.
    Amongst hindus , there was ram sene and the vandals of Babri masjid , but just reflect the vicious fightback by the humanistic hindus. India today even had the front cover “DAY OF SHAME”
    I wonder if any urdu paper ran similar headline, or vikram seth taking out a full page advertisement and warning about the doomsday scenario , brought about by VHP.
    Though I concede , perhaps LMirza had diagnosed the real reason , lack of cultural activity ie,literature
    no wonder voltaire said “LITERATURE HAS TAKEN THE ROUGH EDGES OUT OF MAN”
    Post Script , BJP has failed to win a single seat in the land of Tagore.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    uniform civil code.

    shan add to your knowledge THAT UNIFORM CIVIL CODE IS OPPOSE BY HINDUS MORE THAN MUSLIMS..PARIVAR USE THIS FOR PROPAGANDA SPREADING HATE AGAINST MUSLIMS.
    supreme has already given judgement that hindu is not religion it is samaj.every samaj has its own laws.

    , BJP has failed to win a single seat in the land of Tagore.

    bjp is party of middle class traders.in past congress was allied with marwaris were unfolding their agenda .hence they were not needed.whenever marwari houses were raided by IT department they will ignite comunal riots to deflect the attention.
    hegde,the father of hindu fascism was trained by bengalee brhmns.

    MUSLIM VOTES ARE AROUND 35%.HENCE BJP MIND IS PAITNTED IN GREEN INSTEAD OF YELLOW IN WEST BENGA.WITHOUT MUSLIM SUPPORT NO PARTY CAN WIN ELECTION.MUSLIM NAME THEIR SHOPS WITH HINDU NAMES TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT.EVEN EDUCATED PERSONSHAS TO CHANGE THEIR NAMES TO GET QACCOMODATION.

    shahrukh should say withb the wish of god instead of inshallah.

    javed akhtar is right.yoga is brhmmncl fraud.morning brisk walk is better than yoga.it is old indian tactis of inhailing fresh air and keeping and holding this for 2-3 minutes is sold to rich people as yoga.ram dev is rss agent he is promoted by zoinists and allowed to make money.he is backward will have same of ghaddafi and saddam.sri sri is running his racket from banglore.
    2 month back an indian doctor has declared that yoga gives arithritis.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @tejender TUMASO MA JYOTIRGOMOYO,
    mother deliver the converts, from darkness of ignorance to light of knowledge

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    wah, tajender, you do deny the hindus any credit at all- ….javed akhtar is right.yoga is brhmmncl fraud.morning brisk walk is better than yoga….
    In that statement is not only a negation of one of the greatest gifts to the world by the ancient hindu civilisation, but there is also a blind adulation of the goras by labelling the walk a british invention !!!
    India mein rehte ho, thoda hindu and sikh cheezon ki bhi kadr karo. Take a trip to the lovely temples in Mount Abu, go and see the mindboggling Ellora caves and see the Jaipur observatory with a guide ( who for 500 rupees can explain the marvel of astronomy). I go to India every year and travel- it amazes me. Last year I trekked to base camp Kanchenjunga, travelling through Pemayangtse and Dzongri (the original village of Danny Denzongpa)
    mera bharat mahaan

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    no wonder with a similar sneering aloofness, Jinnah avoided going to jail for even a single day while Gandhi and Nehru spent years in there

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    but the jails were 5star.nehru used to get even wine and the best food.ghandhi was choosen byy britishers to unfold their agenda of dividing india and looking after british interest in india.after ww11 situation changed.they were not in position to continue physical occupation.it is because of both of them that we see so much enequality in society.both of them were more interested in their jaati than in india.
    that is why banias became billionaires and billionaires while thousands and thousands are commiting suicide.49%of our women are enemic and delhi our capital dont have enough power or water.see what happened to bhopal gas victims.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    CAN INDIA DO AN aBBOTABAD- MAYBE not yet. But, it is a question of mindset, and if one leaves the lazy general Indian populace and the divisive politicians, then the Indian forces do have the right mindset to take on any enemy.

    I know it because I am from a defense background. My father always used to say- India could be turned around if every male did 2 years in the forces.
    Any way, read this gem of an article- the Indian navy seals-
    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271657
    Who Dares Wins
    Almost 24 years ago, two Indian naval officers were quietly sent off to the United States to attend a training course that few really knew much about. Since then it has been a tragedy of monumental neglect…
    This is the land of Major Batra- yeh dil maange more

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    In that statement is not only a negation of one of the greatest gifts to the world by the ancient hindu civilisation

    doctor saheb i fully agree with u.but collecting rich people and sucking money from them is fraud.i also wrote that yoga is ancient indian practice.can make this compusolry in schools.
    dont give this a religious.ham sab ka root ek hai koi ved padta hai koi quran.european too have developed many excersizes but they dont connect with jesus christ&christianity.
    regarding arithrites,this resaerch was made by brhmn doctor published in indian paper 2-3 months back.if u teach it is service if u sell yoga to rich and kick to those who can not pay is sin.
    there should be continous research.

    in jammu there is place where people go to worship icy shvlng.my class fellow trivedi,a brhmn from delhi, i can give u his number .he told told me that pns is made through refrigeration cycle. .whenever i see the bhakts i feel pity for them.

    if u check the date the of its finding.it is ,very near when carrier corporation usa invented refrigeration cycle.sorry if i hurt u u are my sweet doctor.i am a bad man.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    tajender, u r some dude. when cornered u bak trak over yoga but then fire a subterranean torpedo- calling a shivling an icy pns
    u never give up do u
    doc mishra-impressed with your trekking expedition, did you have porters or do you carry the rucksack by yourself. If u say u carried it , we will demand photographic proof !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    When I was in DPS we did the Pindari glacier trek in class 11, could strongly recoomend to u- gentle trek for oldies hahaha

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    hamarzade tameez se baatkar.varna joota pade ga.vcamche sale.dobara javab mat dena.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    India mein rehte ho, thoda hindu and sikh cheezon ki bhi kadr karo. Take a trip to the lovely temples in Mount Abu, go and see the mindboggling Ellora caves and see the Jaipur observatory with a guide.

    except mount abu i have seen nearly all jantarmantar delhi i have.these obsevatories were built under moghul period by raja jai sing who was employee of moghul court.
    will it not be better if u call them indians.-.concept of observatory has come from samarkand.they built best one 300 yrs brfore.

    i will see mount abu sure.could not get time.but our up has best temples mosques cities.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    tajender if you go before Samarkand, you will find Aryabhatt- an astronomer in 500 AD ?? who for the first time ever perhaps said the earth is round and revolves around the sun.
    The great civilisations of that time freely exchanged ideas. It would be fair to say that the hindus in the first millenium perhaps invented the zero and the decimal, set the basis of algebra and astronomy and this was then taken by I think Egyptians and Persians who refined it further.

    READ THE AGUMENTATIVE INDIAN- BY AMARTYA SEN- one of the best reads in the last 10 years

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i think arya bhatta was in kali yug 3600 years old.i have argumentative indian by amartya sen i read it.egyptian and civilization is older than indian.5000 years.i think brhmns have their origin from there.i have seen there temples.i advise u also to go.u will find many similarities.
    that area became desert then civilization shifted to iraq babylon.from there went to iran germany and india.
    egyptians were very very advance in every walk of life.i ahve seen a statue 1000 ton in weight carved from one piece of stone.hanuman was their their god of science and yechnology.expert in transporting mountains.
    in india there is sign of anything like this.dont thinkl that if i dont praise india i am less indian than u.something like pyramids is not found in india.500 yrs old temples are not here.construction and infrsastructure was built by buhdhdists.

    regarding samarkand,in the medieval period many things came from central asia.4-5000 yeras ago we may be advance but there is no remanant.in recent history concept of observatory and astronomy came to india from that area.like carpet.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Get a life, will you.

  • Binoy Hegde

    Latest on Pak terrorism –

    US authorities have arrested a 76 yr old Pakistani American, his son (apparently based on Treasure trove from Osamas compound) for providing money and assistance to anti-US fighters in Afghanistan. His other son is being pursued in Paksiatn (he is on the run).

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i think they have to arrest another 2-3 millions afghjans on the same charges.keep track of them.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I can’t beleive this. When Jihadis like Ravi and Tajender were masturbating their mind with Jihad, Osama was masturbating himself watching porn and keeping Quran on the side.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    jehadi masturbate on durga and parvati like shan and other young youths of modern bengal.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    How about Ayesha,for jerking off in the shower.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Too late…Osama wiped himself with pages of Quran…So sad..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tajender,
    Are these Durga and Parvati your Khadija and Ayesha? Don’t use code names..Just say you guys jerk off dreaming of Khadija and Ayesha..

    Even your prophet did same..He asked his followers to die but he himself was busy fingering 6 year old Ayesha. What a scum!!!

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    we know the standards of eople like Ram and Ravi..

    They are dragging you to their negative standards

    tajender Reply:

    rajeev dont bring religious figures while discussing worldly matters.i only react.in that process others get and u hurt me.why u do.i can write volumes on u.we come here to discuss issues not hurt others faith.don do it again.
    next time reaction will be harder.

    i am ignoring ur above stupidity for the sake our bloggers.u are bloody brainless punjabi.
    when i meet with **** pujabis,both look like the PUPPY OF THE SAME *****.(ek hee kutiya ke pille lagte ho)they are as idiot as u.

    tajender Reply:

    we know the standards of eople like Ram and Ravi..

    They are dragging you to their negative standards

    hegde here also double standard.who started this filth.this bloody idiot punjabi do this before i knew of this blog.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tajender,
    My counter reaction will be even harder..I’ll **** your prophet all the way to AL-Aqsa mosque and then to heaven.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Binoy,
    On one hand this Jehadi shows fake happiness on Osama’s execution and then on other hand he defends his new age prophet for porno..

  • tajender

    i am ignoring ur above stupidity for the sake our bloggers.u are bloody brainless punjabi.
    when i meet with p.a.k pujabis,u both look like the PUPPY OF THE SAME b1.tc.h.(ek hee kutiya ke pille lagte ho)they are as idiot as

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    As Ravi was getting a hammering on the other blog (some would say what’s new), I posted this for him. It may be relevant here in view of the above unpleasantness-
    Dr Mishra Reply:

    May 14th, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    ravi, a tip, and I mean it in a friendly way. A litmus test for one’e blogging is that you should be able to show it to your parents, spouse or children and not be ashamed of doing so. Some introspection on your part as to how it went so wrong , would be in order

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ravi bhai it is time to back.u were soft.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    doctor sb,
    did u read conversation between amar singh and bipasha basu,if no,i have summed up the dicussion in following couplets,

    bipasha ………..sweety what is there in ur love
    amar singh…….gudiya yeh naa pooch ki mere pyar mein kya rakha hai
    bipasha …………sweety jaldi bata ki kya rakha hai
    am,ar singh ……ek shoola hai jo payjame mein chupa rakha hai.
    gudiya ab aur na pooch ki mere ishq mein kya rakha hai
    bas yahe rakha hai yahee rakha aur yahee rakha hai

    sorry but this is how conversation was going on.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ayesha………..sweety what is there in ur love
    Mo-ham-mad…….gudiya yeh naa pooch ki mere pyar mein kya rakha hai
    Ayesha …………sweety jaldi bata ki kya rakha hai
    Mo-ham-mad ……ek shoola hai jo payjame mein chupa rakha hai.
    gudiya ab aur na pooch ki mere ishq mein kya rakha hai
    bas yahe rakha hai yahee rakha aur yahee rakha hai

    sorry but this is how conversation was going on.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    terio maa kee ghaqad mein ossama ka lund

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mohammad ki g**nd mein Osama ka sar…

    tajender Reply:

    gadhe nakalchi kabhi apni kutch leke aya kar.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Back off from attacking religious and scriptural figures – attack theory, results, interpretations etc

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    s.singh,

    i agree with u..this is not only bad but criminal.

    S Singh Reply:

    there is nothing criminal– this is not a sharia counytry..

    tajender Reply:

    wi think in every law it is criminal.whether christain laws which u borrowed or sharia.in manu laws i dont know.

  • Rizwan

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    we know the standards of eople like Ram and Ravi..

    They are dragging you to their negative standards
    ———–
    Dr Mishra, UK says:
    May 15, 2011 at 4:10 am
    As Ravi was getting a hammering on the other blog (some would say what’s new), I posted this for him. It may be relevant here in view of the above unpleasantness-

    ravi, a tip, and I mean it in a friendly way. A litmus test for one’e blogging is that you should be able to show it to your parents, spouse or children and not be ashamed of doing so. Some introspection on your part as to how it went so wrong , would be in order
    ————–Benoy and doc mishra, you are true gentlemen. Zia please remove this FILTH above

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why u are silent on rajeev.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    RAJEEV, just curious , how old r u
    btw, i am 24

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    10

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You are 24…great..gande diaper tajender ko de do…

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Singh saheb, well said. …. Back off from attacking religious and scriptural figures – attack theory, results, interpretations …
    Did anyone read this gem of an article- the Indian navy seals-
    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271657
    Who Dares Wins… the way forward- India does an Abotabad- 2015? Amen

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    attack theory, results, interpretations …I AGREE.
    .america became pauper in search of ossama.dont forget that 20crores indians dont know when they will eat again.another 66crores are below povert line.frienship better than jingoism.people of that area are accustomed to fighting.THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE.
    in last arab isreali war 80000 isreali army could not defeat 2000 hizbollah guerrilas.time has changed so the tactics..zoinists take america here and there to fight in hope of stimulating the economy.our economy is doing well.
    dawood was the creation of riots after babri demolition.advani and his gang should be dealt at par with him.
    so talk of peace is better.manmohan singh is on right path.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    mishraji, at time of independence, sikhs were 33% in the army. In an effort to democritise, the sikh % shrunk over decades to less than 10%.
    What could not be replaced was the MARTIAL THOUGHT, THE SIKH SPINE- as this blog shows India is filled with pessimists, self haters, pseudo seculars- all talk, all hot iar- shan, bobby, ravi etc

    BRING BACK 33 % SIKHS IN THE ARMY, IN RAW- save India

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    The same sikh spine killed the person whose safety was entrusted upon , gaddari of the worst kind. The same spine MUTINEERED and killed an army major , and this happened not in the british era but 1982.And who was that army guy who casheered (means thrown out)from the army , and was directing MAYHEM from the golden temple.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    shan – you cannot go on assigning collective guilt — this is like american jews who constantly bring out the holocaust and assign current germans for the guilt ..

    Whatever may be the issues with current Muslims of India, they cannot be collectively assigned to the bin of “destroyrs of somnath”..

    Indira Gandhi was asssassinated by two of her body guards who had to choose between two loyalties — That they chose a bad one (assuming most people of modern age would not have chosen that option) does not mean all their kins would have chosen the same.

    You have to stop hitting below the belt. Doesnt do any good for anybody.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    You are going too far. The sikhs have been shortchanged after 1947. What was the need to divide east punjab?
    They got misguided by terror elements from US-UK-Canada but their contribution to Indian freedome stuggle and then in Armed forces is unparallel.

    Indira Gandhi deserved the death she got. She was the one who created Bhindrawale. She was solely responsible for all the terror and its aftermath. Her son Rajiv Gandhi got 5000 sikhs killed and never felt sorry for his misdeeds.

    You can slam sikh leaders but sikhs can not be condemned.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Hi Shan

    Preetam Brara, the district attorney of Manhattan who is going after major white collar crimes in Wall Street is a sardarji boy.

    So also many others including Ajay Banga , head of Master Card..

    People like Preetam and Ajay cannot be blamed for what sikhs did or did not do at some time in the history.

    Sikhs (at least all the ones I know,a nd I know quite a lot) are hard working, life enjoying, willing to help others people. They are a proud people, quite patriotic. India is their motherland, like it is yours and mine. Muslims have Saudi Arabia, Jews have Israeel, and Sardarjis have India.

    Please stop your ranting as to what they did during sepoy mutiny. Was there an India then?

    shan Reply:

    @RAJU, BINOY,RAJEEV By the same token we cannot judge the present , with the state of india at independence
    as he wishes, his hubris , Bring back 33% sikh in Army and raw SAVE INDIA .
    WELL THERE ARE STILL A PLATOON OF BABBAR KHALSA IN PAKISTAN BEING GROOMED BY THE PAKISTANIS
    ARE YOU AWARE LADOOS WERE DISTRIBUTED IN SOUTHALL , I WAS EMBARASSED TO BE AN INDIAN , FELT LIKE SAYING I AM A PAKISTANI

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    The sikhs who support Khalistan are from US-UK-Canada and can not be called Indians. They have no hold over Sikhs in India.

    The pakistanis are training Babbar Khalsa (most of these people are out of touch with reality) for their own designs.

    The Sikhs have moved on so it is time we do the same. The Sikhs have contributed much more than MOST APPEASED ANTI-NATIONAL minority who not only divided India but also controls Indian politics by voting communally.

  • Rizwan

    @ rajeev, why start a discussion with obscenity. Then tajender responds with worse-

    Rajeev says:
    I can’t beleive this. When Jihadis like Ravi and Tajender were masturbating their mind with Jihad, Osama was masturbating himself watching porn and keeping Quran on the side.

    tajender Reply:

    jehadi masturbate on durga and parvati like shan and other young youths of modern bengal.
    ——————–rajeev- wot did u get by spewing filth

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I got sadistic pleasure in needling Jehadi elements.
    I see no difference between Mohammad and Osama because both were riding their wives while their followers were busy fighting for them.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    I got sadistic pleasure in needling Jehadi elements
    tabhi apni maaa ko blog par kutton se chudwa ke,tujhe ek ajab maza aata hai.sale kttey kee aulad.
    concept that punjabi is martial race was given by britishers.as they were most obedient servant of british empire.while history tells another story.pakistani punjabis are also victim of same hysteria.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Shan,
    Why is that 70% of the bengalis converted to Islam? Just curious…

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why punjab became muslim majority state.just curious.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajeev , you can get answers to your curiosity, but just scavenging Zia’s blog archive. I had mentioned about a bangladeshi lady in UK , who said things , about which I said “I hang my head in shame”. I would have liked to do a copy and paste , but it was in March , and that month is missing in the archive section.Or it may be in Jan , can’t remember.
    HOWEVER THIS PAKISTAN PUNCH BAG IS GETTING A BIT MONOTONOUS.
    Are you interested in films, have you seen GROUNDHOG DAY, to me one of the greatest films I have seen. Would welcome any bloggers view on this. That film has more than what meets the eye.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    RAJEEV, RAJU AND BENOY- let shan speak.
    The khalistani movement was the darkest chapter in the history of the sikhs. We can blame Pakistan, Canadian and UK separatists, the unemployed youth who for centuries had gone into some army or the other, Indira vs Akalis- BUT THE BIGGEST FAULT LAY WITH US.
    We lost our way somehow, and the movement became communal.
    Indira did not deserve to be killed but the 1984 BLUESTAR MUST BE THE MOST BOTCHED MILITARY OPERATION in world history.
    Some khalistani feeling still persists in sikhs settled abroad- yes
    But that was past- even today there is a need toi increase % of sikhs in army. No other community has SO MUCH STEEL IN THEIR SPINE- we are an earthy people

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Shan has this shrill way of generalising – about muslims, about brahmins, about sikhs. Benoy said correctly-
    “”"shan, Please stop your ranting as to what they did during sepoy mutiny”"”

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    Muslims have Saudi Arabia, Jews have Israeel, and Sardarjis have India.

    benoy genetacally muslims are the true indians. high caste came outside including some muslims.
    this is reason why propaganda that white is superior is going on all over india.vedas also came from outside.aqnd love more america than india.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Balwinder praaji, your honesty about the Sikh separatist movement is refreshing. Whythe sikhs exploded and made India implode is too big a subject. The rajputs are also a martial race, yet their patriotism is unblemished and goes back a good 500 years.
    Is it because starting a new religion is sometimes the first step towards separatism, and wars. Witness protestants and catholics- a very bloody history between them. So Nanak takes a small step and the subsequent gurus take many more.
    And when the 10 th guru says the sikh entity is fully mature and closes the book- no more gurus- the religion stagnates. Like the muslims, a preoccupation with appearance and language becomes more imp than spirituality, AND WHEN A MAD PREACHER WITH BURNING EYES APPEARS IN 1978, the educated and well off sikh community follows him blindly. He becomes their 11th guru.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    bhindranwle

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Bhindranwale was a creation of Srimathi Indira Priyadarshini Nehru Gandhi. Just like all the monsters created by Pak (LeT, Jeh and other alphabet soups) generals to counter India in the name of “strategic depth”, Mrs Gandhi created the low rung guy as a tool to win elections, only to find that he has grown into an uncontrollable monster.

    Just like Saudi rich guys bankrolling the Jehadis, the rich Sardarjis abroad started funding the separatist movement. Th local sardarji, like anybody anywhere else, justw anted a peaceful life and a better life for his children; and was not concerned about separation.

    Mrs Gandhi corrected the wrong by ordering the attack. She was gutsy, and paid the ultimate price for making that decision.

    I am not a fan of Mr Gandhi – but my guts say that she would raid the LeT and other extremist training camps in Pakistan with the rich evidence we have.

    Balinder – I thought Sardarjis were a larger share of the military than you indicated. Arent there many Sikh regiments? I am for shoring up the military with tough jawans and leaders whatever religion/creeed theya re from. Anybody who has that call should be taken in.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Binoy , this is reductionism at its height. A mere illiterate buffoon cannot cause such mayhem. There were plenty gaddars , like the GP in uk and the apple grower in USA and incredible SO MANY HINDUS WERE KILLED AND IS GLOSSED OVER, only when it comes to muslims , hindu passions reach fever pitch.Just to remind Tagore returned his knighthood in protest at the Jalianwala massacre. Only if he knew about the embarrasing obscience shown by Tohra and Barnala , to the visiting queen of England.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Benoy disagree when you say this “”"Th local sardarji, like anybody anywhere else, justw anted a peaceful life and a better life for his children; and was not concerned about separation”"”
    There was alot of local support for khalistan as well. Unfortunately, whenever there is disturbance, the local criminal elements- found in every community in India- came to the top and complicated everything
    doctors, teachers- many got infected with the virus

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    benoy, you hit the nail on the head- “”"Mrs Gandhi – but my guts say that she would raid the LeT and other extremist training camps in Pakistan with the rich evidence we have.”"”

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    mishraji sometimes you excel yourself “”"And when the 10 th guru says the sikh entity is fully mature and closes the book- no more gurus- the religion stagnates. AND WHEN A MAD PREACHER WITH BURNING EYES APPEARS IN 1978, the educated and well off sikh community follows him blindly. He becomes their 11th guru. “”"

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    balwinder thanks.
    btw, allothers invited to Vinod Sharma’s blog- interesting disc

    [Reply]

  • syed

    @B Sandhu

    But that was past- even today there is a need toi increase % of sikhs in army.

    I think before op bluestar & assassination of Indira gandhi, sikhs were overrepresented in the army. Since those events however, there has been a gradual process of decreasing their percentage.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Syed , long time no see.
    Is it possible , the establishment have become somewhat nervous, post mutiny and killing of a major by the sikh soldiers that followed operation blue star.
    Similar logic is applied or hung on to the british logic for not recruiting bengalees en masee in the army because of their predeliction for revloution. Though in top brass there have been bengalees.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    syed bhai, pl come on vINOD SHARMA’S BLOG, WE ARE ALL THERE RITE NOW

    [Reply]

  • Alok

    2 Things – pre 1984 Sikhs were pampered and punjab da puttar – invincible martial race – we better than rest got into their head a lot.

    Post 1984 – it seems they learnt that India is not an easy place if you disturb her peace.

    Sometimes it is best to integrate than to stand out and bash the majority.

    Now present day – the portrayal of Sikhs by main stream TV and Bollywood IS HORRIBLE and racist.

    There are no sikh actors with ( turban and beard) – and we need one. Authentic katta Sikh one.

    Same for North East India – very soon they will join China if you keep neglecting them.

    [Reply]

  • vsc

    “Slaughtering of innocents, in itself, was never the goal, but it served as the means to achieve the goal of humbling the West.”

    How can you be so sure, i am “living” in the west and the effect has been quite the opposite,
    Muslims have been branded as terrorists, there is not an iotabe of “humbling” as you put it…..
    and with all due respects he did “slaughter” innocents and no amount of justification can make it right.

    [Reply]

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