Anna as Gandhi: Delusions of grandeur



Gandhi – who India still reveres deeply – floated up in public memory recently when the contemporary Indian press and some middle-class Indians had hallucinating glimpses of him in rural activist Anna Hazare, who launched a Gandhi-style protest against high-level corruption.

Since Gandhi himself faced intense public scrutiny, both from 20th-century Western critics and Marxists, so must people who seek to emulate him in the 21st century.

George Orwell opened his classic 1949 essay on Gandhi with a brilliantly provocative line: “Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent, but the tests that have to be applied to them are not, of course, the same in all cases.”

Tests Orwell applied in Gandhi’s case were ruthlessly reductionist in approach, down to the Mahatma’s “unregenerate” early life – for example Gandhi’s dancing lessons, his acts of stealing and two visits to a brothel. As Orwell writes: “…his whole life was a sort of pilgrimage in which every act was significant”.

The questions Orwell asked were: “[t]o what extent was Gandhi moved by vanity – by the consciousness of himself as a humble, naked old man, sitting on a praying mat and shaking empires by sheer spiritual power – and to what extent did he compromise his own principles by entering politics, which of their nature are inseparable from coercion and fraud?”

Like Gandhi himself never admitted to being a great soul, Hazare has seldom made much of the press and urbanites seeing a hint of Gandhi in him. But the symbolism was not lost on anyone. As he sat on a belligerent fast until death, a toothless Gandhi smiled from behind the podium. The method and the means he adopted are popularly known as Gandhian – literally, in the manner of Gandhi – as those who joined him chanted “Gandhiji Amar Rahe, Anna Hazare Zindabad”.

Rarely has a living Indian’s name been taken in the same breath as Gandhi’s. This must be something.

Is Hazare a modern-India Gandhi? Or is he more Gandhi-like?  In this context, several doubts naturally rear their heads: Hazare is certainly not a vulgarised charlatan, as some have alleged, but how far is he willing to impose sacrifices on himself?

Does achievement of an immediate goal through Gandhian methods represent clear proof of having passing that litmus test of whether there can be another Gandhi?

A far more serious question is: to what extent did the government capitulate to Hazare’s demands because of his personal moral authority that characterized many of Gandhi’s own victories? Did the government give in because of political expedience (elections in states, a battered image beset with scandals)?

Or did the capitulation come from repentance of immoral rulers who could see their ugly side in an utterly moral mirror held up by Hazare? Is Hazare’s achievement a result of personal aggrandisement?

Halfway between his human appearance and para-human existence, Gandhi has no peer in history. He walked through fiery streets in Noakhali as riots broke out, not looking left or right. Stray stone missiles hit him but not betraying any sign of physical pain, he moved on. His trance-like walk appeared almost scary, as the blood-thirsty men were spooked into falling quiet. Why did the rioters capitulate and stop the violence? Because Gandhi was in their midst.

To what extent is Hazare prepared to clean modern-day India of its ills or is he moved by corruption alone? What level of abstinence has he demonstrated and, more importantly, what are his views on many of India’s pressing issues?

Hazare’s biggest achievement is that of turning around his native village into an ecological and economical model, ridding the drought-prone hamlet of its alcoholics and making its men and women self-sufficient. This is, strictly speaking, a Gandhian accomplishment. But it is no more than one man heeding Gandhi’s call, like million others who did.

It was not in achieving the sole political objective of ending the British Raj peacefully that Gandhi spent his entire life. Hazare has not shown inclinations yet of tackling Hindu-Muslim disharmony, of putting forward a doctrine of how India should deal with dissent or handle resurgent Hindutva and militant Muslims. Nor has he grappled with the issue minority rights, women’s oppression and the indignity with which class-less, cashless Indians are addressed. It is in the backdrop of these contemporary issues that he could be called to greatness.

Even if he were to take them up, whether he would succeed is unknown. To be another Gandhi would simply require a man voluntarily combining all of Gandhi’s traits, and yet involuntarily going at least one step further.

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  • shan

    @Zia, wonderful , FOR ONCE IT IS NOT THE HACKNEYED TOPIC, you know what.
    Did you know gandhi became psychotic after having sex with his , after realising that he was aware his father was breathing his last in the next room. Sex was an obsession with gandhi. Around age sixty he had an involuntary orgasm , again he went potty. He was obsessed with this weird idea that he he controlled his desires that energy will channeled into acheiving higher things.
    Take it from me it doesn’t , it gives you PROSTATITIS, sex is good it gets rid of secretions .
    He took this “urge control” to an extreme level , sleeping with two very young women on both sides.
    Also his food fad was crazy. Apparently a dozen or so goats were lined up when gandhi was staying at sart bose’s house. Mahadev Desai his secretary would inspect all the goats and then nod which one to milk.
    And how about this advice given to Indira priyadarshini.
    When Indira Nehru went to gandhi to ask for his advice about marrying Feroze gandhi , gandhi said
    “MARRY BUT LIVE LIKE BROTHER AND SISTER”(yes he actually said this. )
    Indira Nehru retorted it is better not to marry than to marry and live like brother and sister.
    One should keep in mind gandhi was a vaishnav and a vegetarian.
    These vaishnavs are HYPER with carnal passions , probably taking cue from their god lord krishna and his pranks like hidind the clothes of gopinis bathing in the pond and our lord perched in the tree enjoying the bath fest.Or take the amorous encounter with radha five yrs his senior , the description in Vaishnav padabali will make me blush , made vaishnavites aroused.
    This is where the words of Vivekananda’s mentor Ramkrishna rings so true.
    When somebody suggested that white men’s sexual hunger is due to too much meat eating, he replied sparrows never touch anything other than grass and seeds procreate all round the year , whereas lions compulsive meat eaters , cohabit only once a year.
    Next is Gandhi and Birla. I had informed before how when women folks from birla household came to see him first thing he said “BETI LOG HAMARE LIYE KUCH NAHI LAYI HO” a wad of cash was duly placed infront of his feet.
    I think gandhi’s only and lasting contribution is NON VIOLENT PROTEST AND GENERALLY THE CONCEPT OF NON VIOLENCE, THE REST IS BUNKUM.
    A lot of his idiosyncracy may be due to what Naipaul said”Gandhi lived too long”
    As for Hazare , the cynic in me cannot help this feeling that a lot is self promotion and MEDIA ATTENTION. As I understand he may have good intention but is not equipped with INTELLECT thus all this may end up in just a clamour.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shan–

    You dont get it..Do you?

    No wonder, why everybody is ehaping on you…

    Get a life.. There is no requirement that you have to eb an authority and know all on everything.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    S Singh , you don’t get it do you , I am not from cow belt like you , nor do I worship cow , actually i have no problem in eating beef and pork. I am a rational humanist , science is my creed , thus I am not constrained by anything other than the truth.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shan-

    You still dont get it! And you call yourself a doctor, rationalist, science worshipper…S..t

    tajender Reply:

    shan a nice article,thanks, but he was worse,a fraud ,destroyer of india and indian.due to him india was divided.took india backward.his acts only helped banias of india.begging marwaris became billionaire.20 crores dont know when they will eat next.he too was one of the founder of hindu-muslim problem in india.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Zia is actually saying that Gandhi has no parallel. Even Mohammad can not match Gandhi.
    I concur.

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    “Gandhi – who India still reveres deeply”…. First..- it is Gandhiji or Mahathma Gandhi – no Indian willl say Gandhi.. Zia should have been more careful.

    Second – “still” ??? Why, shouldnt it be? Is George Washington not respected by Americans any more, after 200 plus years? An inquisitive mind draws the wrong conclusion on Zia from the usage of “Gandhi” and “Still” .

    Now coming to Ana – his fast until death did touch a chord in crores of Indians , especially the younger ones. The magnitude and extent of corruption is simply unthinkable and unbelievable – to get admission to high school, to start business, to deny admission, to minbe, to not to mine,the list is endless. This is the cancer now. Everything else is secondary, because a truthful nation will do many things right. Ignoring this will be like Pakistan ignoring the funfdamentalist streaks for decades; just to see the country consumed by that to a point of no return.

    It is indeed a shame when politicians like Pawaar hide behind “parliamentary processes” and democracy to thwart these. It is ridiculous when RAhul’s poodle Digbvijay says Lokpal should also cover non-profits and business etc (arent non-profits and businesss suppsoed to be under rules and regulations).

    Ana is not looking for any glory; it is a simple man trying to do what he can do for his country at the waning stage of his life. Comparing that to solving Hindu Msulim issues or gender issues and belittling the man is simply uncalled for. India’s problem of the day is the cancer of corruption rather than anything else — for everything else, at least there is a regional variation, poverty is high in some states, low in some otehr states; education high and low, intermingling in cities/isolation in villages, etc etc.. The only thing that is bad everywhere is corruption. This has to be rooted out; the Lokpal bill the parliamentarians resist will curb this.

    I do not know how many of you read a recent news about Infosys. Infosys made Bangalore as the “electronics city”; put India on the map of many international businesses, created many dollar millionaires in India, created lakhs of jobs (its and related side businesses)…. Mohandas Pai, its MD treported last week that the Karnataka Secretary of Industry (or some department) wanted huge payments for one of their expansion facilities. This has become a big BJP issue , where BJP is trying to distance from the state administration.

    Ana devoted his life for the betterment of common man.. A true Gandhian; he is not concerned about himself or his family (he does not have a family; his village is his family). So, let us not question the motive of a man in his seventies. What we have to m ake sure is that the momentum is not lost. What Zia has to make sure is to use his immense power of the pen and newspaper to see that Lokpal bill is passed.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @shoebk , a lot of corruption can be tackled by tweaking the system. take for example your car towed away by police. You have to get hold of an agent(dalal) who will carge you for the penalty, the bribe and his service fees.In Uk traffic warden pastes a traffic fine by pasting a piece of paper on the window screen by the ticking the appropriate box. The paper tells you where to make your payment directly. He also takes a photograph for future legal challenges. Not rocket science is it. Similarly any letter to a govt office should receive a reply by four weeks.

    Also just put few in jail and flash it on TV , would act as good deterrant.
    Also given india being a poor country , corruption is not that bad . It is the Rajas and Ambanis that need to be put behind bar.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Anybody breaking law should be put in jail. But the process takes for ever; legal system goes at its own pace (see the 1980s Bhopal tragedy just got decided !).
    First abnd foremost, we have to get out of the British based systems of checks and checks and inspectors… Any ispector means bribe..

    I look forward to this Lokpal stuff. Free from politicians and bureaucrats, it has a chnace to improve the system.

    Of course, fear is a motivator, jailing a few top ones will put fear.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    KATRA AUR DARIYA

    Kitne dinon ke pyase honge yaaron socho to
    Shabnam ka katra bhi jinko dariya lagta hai

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ravi bhai hundreds like anna hazare cannot make any change till we change our money based value system ,But making money is the easiest. You must have no scruples, no principles. Cheat, rob, bribe or take bribe, resort to any means including murder — you become rich. And once you become rich you become the Ambani. Your past is quickly forgotten. And get all awards, rewards. Front-page pictures, TV interviews, Rotary Club honour.

    Your wife, mother, father will all love you, run after you only if you are rich.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    That is so true.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    B A L W I N D E R S A N D H U the B U M B L I N G Harlequin

    The day you can get one over me, has not been calendarised yet.

    I chew two like you and spit them out, before opening the bottle.

    So if you wish, we can continue this, or else you can stick to servicing the sow, you call wifey.

    Just so you know, I am so be-sharm that only another ORPHAN can be.

    Pagrdi sambhal jatta, pagrdi sambhal vey.

    Don’t say I did not warn you. You have as much wit as a 10 day old lettuce does.

    Dr Mishra please note, restraint is a two way street.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Re-posting because, for some reason many posts have disappeared.

    This post was by way of thanking Balvinder Sandhu for bearing my Taxi fare Hayes to across the Wagha Wagha land.

    ________________________________________________________

    It is surprising how easily a – nodding dog – can be pleased.

    Some of us have to stand in front of a house in Hayes and observe the goings on in side.

    Where one can see a Sardar – of the mein koi jhooth bloya, koi na bhai koi na variety.

    A challa sikh if there ever was one.

    Him with a large BAY WINDOW, situated where normal people have tummies, no doubt Dimple Double Glazing fit it there.

    The Sardar is seen yanking out from under his wife’s petticoat his deranged adolescent son, who has taken to suckle the sow at the wrong end.

    Now lets see Sardar ji falling of his chair.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    kal kee baat hai ek hindu ne kaha kee hanuman hindu tha ,musalman atak gaya bola woh musalman tha,hindu ne poocha kaise,usne kaha nam se aadmi pahchana jata hai,suleiman,rehmaan,imaan ,hanuman ek hi tareh ke naam hai.

    ladai ho rahe the ki sardar aaagaya .BOLA WOH SARDAR THA.AB KAYA THA HINDU MUSALMAN DONO POOCHNE LAGE,WHAT IS THE PROOF,

    SIKH BOOLA,NA LANKA USKI NA SITA USKI PHIR BHI POOCH MEIN AAG LAGAYE HAR JAGAH KOOD RAHA THA EISA GREAT AADMI SAWAI SARDAR KE KOI BHI NAHIN HO SAKTA.

    BADE PAAJEE SIRK JOKE HAI ENJOY KEEJIYE.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Tajendar bhai

    What happened to all the other posts, here. I can only see 15. How many can you see.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    dushmano ko nazar lag gayee.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    enjoy keeta, tajender, joke hota hi hai is liye.
    but RAVI/ ISI is different, you crack a clean joke and he retaliates like a 4 year old with abuse.

    He claims to be a hindu, then later sikh- naa bhai naa, all sardars have a great sense of humour. If someone cracks a joke at you, either give back a repartee or turn around like silencer in 3 idiots, admit defeat with a smile and say- Rancho, tofa kabool karo

    in fact today shan took the joke on him with humour. jio Shan

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Balwinder

    You wouldn’t know a joke if it ran you over and sent you to the Middlesex Hospital.

    What you do know is a feeble way of insulting because you lack creativity.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Both RAvi and Tajender (Mo Autar) are known terrorist lovers…Ignore these scums..they are product of Jehad factory from pakistan.

  • DUDE

    Ghandi was a fool just like alll you weak a s s indians that got converted to rubbish islam down the line!

    Ashoka was a real hero! shame his empire perished!

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Taxi to Pakistan

    Balwinder is now contending that sending me with Rizawan’s Rishta to Pakistan was a joke and that I should have taken as such.

    Had the same thing been said to Binoy or Dr Mishra Ji, one would have understood it to be a joke. This is because it would have been among friends.

    However, to juxtapose it with a comment that I have been very supportive of Pakistanis, and combine it with the fact that he has on a number of previous occasions called me a Pakistani, then it comes across as an insult rather than a joke.

    Hence my retaliation.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    ravi-

    You are a Pakistani Muslim, for a long time maquerading as a UP Hindu; until finally caught by Rajeev based on your comments and “mis”speakings

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    ravi ISI can see only 15 posts?? I can see all 88. I think even HT has had enough of him. they are closing the doors on him.
    Soon ravi you will be totally cut off, from the whole world, you will not be able to see or hear anything. be very afraid- andhkaar hi andhkaar,
    hoooooooooooooooo- that is the sound of wind howling through the trees
    now Ravi, you are going to hear the sound of a door creak hehe

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Is that so.

    So these days to be a Pakistani one has to pass the Rajeev test.

    S Singh, do we know what he thinks of you.

    Or better still would you like me to venture a guess.

    It will not be a good reading, so I suggest you desist from such conjecture.

    As I said I am so be-sharam that only anothe ORPHAN can compete.

    BTW rajeev could not catch a fly if it entered its mouth.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You failed the TRUTH test…You used ‘WE’ talking from pakistani angle..you were hindu..turned Sikh but never failing to use the filthiest language for hindus and hindu religion. The kind of language that you used can be found on all pakistani forums. You never failed to defend Islam but took insults to hindus and sikhs in strides. You have sympathy for Osama…
    Now you want us to believe your HINDU-SIKH story..

    You won’t be able to catch my C**K if it entered your mouth so keep your big mouth SHUT.

    Why don’t you accept my challenge and change your handle to ‘OSAMA-LOVER’…Do it buddy? Show us how brave jehadi your are?

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Not so much as forensic linguist but more of a cunnylinguist.

    Rajeev Reply:

    I know Mohammad loved being cunnylinguist to please 9 year old Ayesha..

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh.

    I know where the Pakistani bit started, you were a part of it.

    But even I can not remember why the UP Hindu. Where did that one come from.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    I then added

    -I would bear the entire cost of the taxi ride. And since Ravi is always praising the pakistanis, we would arrange for him to have high tea with the Mehsud family. hehe

    Also, Rajeev, S Singh and approached Manmohan Singh and said that once the taxi went across the border, then they would work day and night and build an electrified fence between India and Pakistan and would close Wagah for 5 years. hehe

    Singh did make a special request – couldnt Shan babu be put on the same taxi ??

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    there you have it simple joke, vary vary funnnny
    Shan to his credit took the joke well and responded with one of his own

    If Syed, Gopi Thomas, Mishraji, Raju kURIEN, Benoy Hegde, Mohan or Ashish say the joke is cruel, I will admit defeat.
    Otherwise we will diagnose ravi-ISI as a case of lack-of-homouritis and he will be sent to Dr Shan for brain surgery. I will foot the bill hehe
    No one else other than the above mentioned good gentleman will be the judges

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    And you think that is funny, do you.

    If that constitutes wit and humour, I am ready for the operation.

    Bring it on Dr Mishra, I’ll see you at Jimmys.

  • S Singh

    looks like many comments have been lost — ravi is right in this instance!

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    What on earth has happened here? I am a bit lost, tons of posts wiped out including some spat between Praaji and Ravi-isi !?
    Ravi, you have sought my opinion above, I think. But I am at a loss with the data loss. All I have been able to piece together is-

    Rizwan admitted that his family cooled his ardour to the Lahore ki kali.
    That Syed bhai and I had something to do with it. Ha
    And then there is some joke from praaji which involves a taxi to Lahore, and you in it taking Rizwan’s rishta to ?her father, is it?

    Listen, without hearing the joke it is impossible to opine. Unfortunately telling the joke will inflame matters! A bit like Pakistan, where the person who alleges that another committed blasphemy, can’t repeat it in court for doing so is also blasphemy.
    As syedbhai once said before the jokes on this blog could be televised. So, I shall ring Ekta Kapoor tomorrow.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    okay ravi jokes besides, BALWINDER HAS A VERY WHACKY SENSE OF HUMOUR, and as we know he is in love with his jokes. I did say once to him that they are PJs poor jokes, but are never malicious.
    You can see tajender’s joke about the Sikh Hanuman was quite strong, but Ballu took it well. Maybe so should you ?
    @Balwinder- this last bit of howling wind and door creaking is crazy- had me in splits- did you have too much bhang at Baisakhi ?

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    that zany bit about howling wind and creaking door reminded me about this ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC COMEDY SCENE by the incomparable Mehmood. Everyone enjoy this video-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFVH4oSjqOE

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    hahaha, gr8 vid

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I too took Tajenders joke well. Because that was clearly presented as a joke. In neon lights it announced itself as a joke. Stevei Wonder could see it was a joke.

    However, take it from me, what Balwinder said in relation to me was by no measure presented as a Joke. It was a cheap swipe at me by suggesting that he would fund my taxi fare to Pakistan if I was to take Rizwan’s rishta there.

    Balwinder is saying he can see all the posts, perhaps he would re-post it. Considering I have reposted my riposte.

    I have made an offer to him, in very clear terms.

    He is free to take a swipe at me. But there would be a price to pay. The choice is entirely his.

    As I said, the day he can get one over me has yet not been calendarised.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Nodding Khayam.

    The Nodding Dog nods; and having nodded
    Moves on: nor all thy Pity nor Pith
    Shall lure it back to add half a Pun
    Nor all they false laughter make it any Fun.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    okay, here was the joke. If Syed, Gopi Thomas, Mishraji, Raju kURIEN, Benoy Hegde, Mohan or Ashish say the joke is cruel, I will admit defeat.
    Otherwise we will diagnose ravi-ISI as a case of lack-of-homouritis and he will be sent to Dr Shan for brain surgery. I will foot the bill hehe
    Noone else other than the above mentioned good gentleman will be the judges

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    When Rizwan said that his Lahori spice romance had fizzled out, I said-

    “”"Shame, I was so hoping that we would send Ravi ISI to Lahore to take riswan’s ‘rishta’. And after that I would put him in an AC deluxe taxi and give him a trip to Pakistan’s scenic spots which have such a terrific international reputation- Fata, Swat and of course Waziristan
    hehe

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    @GOPI, hahaha- thx for the offer , I like that , will be nice yo hv a keralite wife who cooks dosas and idlis
    @ISI+ravi, dude u r 2 intense, get a life. learn how to take some digs on you. notice that no one has said those jokes were cruel

    doc mishra, brilliant n concise, indira’s finest hour

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Rizwan

    How very true, but no one has said that those jokes were funny either.

    I have a life, my marraige certificate is older than you.

    If you expect me to take digs, then so must you.

    But then I have seen you sulk.

    tajender Reply:

    he is toy to be played not taken seriously.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    I think you are somewhat delusional. You are about as funny as a carrion on the M40.

    Dr Mishra has twice told you that your jokes are poor, as in not funny.

    There is nothing wrong with my sense of humour, just accept, you are not funny.

    Let me reapet it, because it merits a repeat, you are about as witty as a 10 day old lettuce.

    [Reply]

  • Saba Siddique

    This has turned into a private debate between a small group. Some comments border on xenophobia.

    I don’t believe Anna Hazare for all his accomplishments can be mentioned in the same breath as Mahatma Gandhi. The media circus that operated on Jantar Mantar reduced his fast, the activism, the statements against the government to what seemed suspiciously like a publicity stunt.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    I suggest you read these again.

    “Him with a large BAY WINDOW, situated where normal people have tummies, no doubt Dimple Double Glazing fit it there.

    The Sardar is seen yanking out from under his wife’s petticoat his deranged adolescent son, who has taken to suckle the sow at the wrong end.”

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    BALWINDER

    Here is the offer again in terms, I am sure even a bumbling Sikh like you will understand.

    My suggestion is that you start singing the Anand Sahib, straight after the *** Ji Sahib, because if you do not:

    Then this Akhand Path will continue for at least 36 hours and it will not be a very pleasant reading for you.

    That is not a threat, it is a promise.

    I can and I will get a lot more creative and nastier, the more you dwell on this kind of cheap meaningless jibes.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    hi Pak Muslim boy, vent your frustrtions in Pakistan

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Ah such wit.

    Give this guy a promotion make him a chamaar

    syed Reply:

    IASK, that takes the cake. Tickled me pink :) :)

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Syed

    Many thanx.

    There are a few others, see if u can spot them

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    actually, mishraji kind of likes my jokes or phattas- he actually said-

    “”"BALWINDER HAS A VERY WHACKY SENSE OF HUMOUR, and as we know he is in love with his jokes. I did say once to him that they are PJs poor jokes, but they are never malicious.
    You can see tajender’s joke about the Sikh Hanuman was quite strong, but Ballu took it well. Maybe so should you ?

    @Balwinder- this last bit of howling wind and door creaking is crazy- had me in splits- did you have too much bhang at Baisakhi ? that zany bit about howling wind and creaking door reminded me about this ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC COMEDY SCENE by the incomparable Mehmood.

    Everyone enjoy this video-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFVH4oSjqOE
    “”"

    [Reply]

  • Sanjay

    Mohan das Gandhi has done some mistake.
    1. By aligning himslef with Congress.
    2. Giving surname to Nehru Family
    3. Overlooking Nehru politics of becoming Prime Minister.
    4. We have to relook why Britishers left India– its not becos of Gandhi, its becos of wars and their another way of ruling countries. This is By proxy…. Which congress is doing now by putting Manmohan as puppet
    5. Gandhi was tricked by Nehru Family.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Sanjay

    History can be viewed through many lenses, many of them biased with current info. So, many of your statements are just BS, revisionism.

    I sort of concur that Nehru family was cunning to use Gandhi last name. But it has nothing to dow ith Mahathma Gandhi or for that matter Nehru; Indira’s husband (whom she divorced) was Pheroz Gandhi. That she kept his last name shows her “forward look” and shrewedness; she knew India will always like and revere a Gandhi, whereas Nehru will be a subject of contrention – socialism, Kaashmir, division etc.

    I bet 70% of the p[eople below 35 today will say Rahul Gandhi is the great grandson of MAaathma Gandhi.

    Congress was the freedom movement at that time rather tahn a political party.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh.

    Absolutely right in what you say.

    Strictly speaking “Gandhi” is not a surname, just like “Chaudhary” is not. It is a trade name, and therefore can be found among all religions of India. Freoze Gandhi was a Parsi.

    However, I am not sure if a clear distinction can be drawn between a “freedom movement” and a “political party”. What criteria would one use to seperate one from the other.
    Seeking freeedom is a political objective and all tactics used in securing it are political acts.

    Your frustrated Pakistani friend (?), pretending to be a UP Hindu. Having failed the Rajeev patriotism test.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi-

    You are right on the “political objective”..

    What I had in mind was that what Gandhiji wanted was freedom from British, a self sufficient economy based on Indian villages (which is a big albatross even now, with all the progress—that villages are left behind; he knew that India cannot come up without villages coming up , and spinning, weaving, and village industries was the vision based on pre elecrtronic internet realities of that day) ). What I meant was he was not viewing Congress as a political party in the modern vernacualr, ie against another party, or a different set of ideas etc. Obviously he was an extremely smart political man, who knew his grass roots suppoerters very well.

    Hi, I am your friend, let us get into points like this. .

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    I have no issues with everything you have said except would like to add my perspective to your accurate observation.

    When we look at Gandhi’s policies as well as his record using hind site, then we may conclude that some of his views held India back. However, hind site is an imperfect tool.

    Gandhi’s focus on Indial village economy was right for its time.

    One can question, protectionism and hard socialism that followed independence. However, even now one can say the only way to avoid patchy prosperity, growth has to take the village economy into account.

    See how much better discussion is if one avoids cheap jibes.

    I am happy to accept you as a friend

    S Singh Reply:

    “holding back” etc is in the eyes of the beholder. He was not against capitalism. Rajaji was as close to him as Nehru. I feel his giving the reins to Nehru as opposed to Patel was based on his inclinations that Nehru had a worldview, lover of humanity Vs Patel , may be too narrow for a broad Indian perspective. There is one side of me that favours Patel – he would have bought the efficiency in administration whereas Nehru was a permanent romantic with an ideal notion of what India should be , running around in world capitals to bring “respect” to India while ignoring the ground realities…His fabian socialism screwed India..

    Gandhi was not a socialist. He wanted all to rise, wanted systems that will enable all, wanted just systems. He was not advocating a cottage industry based growth or as all say that everybody should spin yarn; he was using these examples as the need to uplift villagers. At 9% growth, we still find poverty has not been mastered, that literacy in bvillages lag significantly behind etc. What he wanted was an inclusive growth policy. As a gujrati Bania, he will be the last one for socialism.

    Sometimes I wonder – did Indira Gandhi through her policies create two generations of poor people? What if Congress party had followed Rajajis and Piloo Moody’s free market and entrenership ideas in the early sixties? We know Indians are entrepreneurial, good in wealth creation (although not good in sharing; but that is also changing),a nd that what if we were growing at 9-11% for the last 35 years instead of teh last 12 years/

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh.

    Respect. You know your stuff.

    Having said all of that, lets look at where we are. Mere 65 years after independence, we are knocking on the world stage. My view is that if we all pulled together in the same direction and have less of in-fighting we can accelerate our growth even faster.

    We need to assert our regional identities in the cultural arena and in matters of foreign policy, defence, and economy we need to be united.

    tajender Reply:

    Freoze Gandhi
    but his father jahangir was not using this surname.yeh kamal hamare mahatama ghandhi ka tha.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    @saba siddique, thank you. Yes, this has become a private debate/ joke among a cyber club of friends. Which comments did you find xenophobic?
    @sanjay- Gandhi did not give his surname to Nehru family. Also, what do you mean- Gandhi aligned himself with congress- HE WAS A SENIOR MEMBER OF CONGRESS

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    As far as I know GANDHI was never an official member of congress but he controlled congress like a dictator. On 15th august, Gandhi was not in Delhi with Nehru to celebrate independence.
    After Independence, he was marginalized by Nehru and Patel because they found his ideas unrealistic. Nehru did use Gandhi’s proximity to get to PM chair. Out of 16 Congress Pradesh committees, 13 wanted Patel to be PM, 2 wanted Kriplani to be PM and just 1 supported Nehru. Gandhi forced Patel to take his name off and rest is history. So to say that Nehru did not use Gandhi for political goal is BIG LIE.
    The use of Gandhi surname was a part of Nehru’s game plan to impose dynasty on India. That so called democrat ruled India for 18 long years till his death. Why did he not make for other after two terms? It was because he was waiting for Indira to become politically acceptable in Congress.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Rajeev-

    I do not ascribe that Nehru had any dynastic mentality. Neither that he had an ulterior motive in persuading Mrs Gandhi to retain her ex-husband’s last name. Or whether he was even aware of that.

    Nehru, rightfully or wrongfully, felt he was the only one who can lead India –may be because of his unbound love for the country (he wanted children to call him Chachah Nehru) , may be because he is a megalomaniac like the present central asian dictators(history does not prove that — he was Democratic in all his dealings). He did not have Mrs Gandhi in the cabinet. It was the party leaders who propelled Mrs Gandhi aftyre Lal Bahadur Sastris death in Russia; they felt Indira will be a docile leader (as opposed to Morarji Desai..) and that they could manipulate her.. Little that they knew. Congress later split into Congress (O) O for Organization and Congress (I) I for Indira. Nehru did not do anything to promote Indira. However, Indira knew how to take advantage of everything.

    It was the Congress leaders, at the time of the darkest point in Indian democracy, started the slogan “India is Indira, Indira is India”..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I disagree with you. Nehru always kept Indira Gandhi in public eye during his PMShip. She was part of Congress during Nehru’s PMShip. He was not in a position to force Indira Gandhi on nation during his lifetime because Congress at that times had leaders who had spine to stand up to Nehru. None the less, Shastri was forced to take inexperienced goongi Gudiya in his cabnet. After Shasti demise, Indira was imposed as PM by the Nehru loyalists.

    Why didn’t we see kids of Patel or Rajendra Prasad in politics after that? Nehru clearly had in mind dynasty (because he too was product of Nehru Dynasty started by Motilal) that will rule India for years to come. He did the groundwork for promoting Nehru-Gandhi Dynasty.

    As far as Gandhi surname is concerned, it was Nehru dynasty good luck that they got it courtesy Feroze Gandhi. But look that the importance Feroze Gandhi (opponent of Nehru) is given in dynasty. They have no problem using last name of Feroze but have they ever given due respect to that men. What does it mean? It means that this dynasty treats GANDHI surname as asset that can be used to fool ill-educated Indians who can not make out difference between true MK Gandhi and Fake Gandhis.

    S Singh Reply:

    rajeev-

    Nehru did not take her in the cabinet. Did not annoint her..

    And, they were not nehryu loyalists who wanted her.. It was pure selfish play; they knew they could not be, but knew Indira could be, and that she will be beholden to their interests; that they can manipulate her; but not moraji.

    Rest is history..

    Nehru has lot of faults to go by. But making her a prime min ister was not hsi ob jective. Others did it. And we are suffering still…

    S Singh Reply:

    Actually, Rajeev, with all her faults, Indira did make a speech once that “Just like old India achieved its place in the world through knowledge, a new India wiill also achieve its place through new knowledge” — to some extent the knopwledge economy driven growth is the result of her vision.. (I am not her fan, but the lady was man enough! There were several good leadership attributes in her )

    Rajeev Reply:

    Nehru did not impose Indira on India because Nehru had formidable opposition but he made sure Indira was in public eye and could not be ignored.

    Whereas Patel banned his son from visiting him in Delhi. He always kept his family out of limelight (as MK Gandhi did). Other great stalwarts did same except for Nehru, Pant etc.

    I appreciate Indira Gandhi for her courage in foreign relation. Her deft handling of East Pakistan is something that Indians had not done in last 1000 years. She was clearly the only man in her cabinet. But when it comes to dictatorial attitude and her attitude for corruption, she had no peers.

    All in all this family has been a curse for India except for few achievements. The time is up for this dynasty. India has paid enough for their so-called sacrifice. Now we should give others to work for India.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    I am not 100% sure that J.L. Nehru did not have “dynastic mentality”. He followed for a lot many things in the footsteps of his father Moti Lal Nehru. They were both Barristers and both at one point or another were chairman of the Indian National Congress.

    Furthermore, a lot of trades in India are dynastic. A cobbler’s son become a cobbler and a fisher man’s son becomes a fisherman, and river boat man’s son also becomes a river boat man.

    Now I know this is changing a lot and that is what is great about education, but I am sure you get my point.

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi

    Nehru had many faults; but I do not think establishing a dynasty had any place in his mind. He was a Democrat to the point; a lover of india (in his own way); granted he nominated his sister Vijayalakshmi Pandit to be India’s UN Ambassador, but Vijayalaksmi was quite qualified for that.

    Indira never had any official position while Nehru was the PM. Nehru’s wife was long dead (Kamla never got the attentiuon a wife deserved), and Indira stayed with nehru as her father’s hostess for receptions. Indira was not a bright student, she never graduated from anywhere she went (Nehru was the last college graduate in that family! – neither Indira, nor Sanjay and Rajiv, nor Rahul and Priyanka)

    So, let us blame Nehru for many things; but the only blame vis-a-vis Indira Gandhi is that he was her father..
    Now she made sure that her progenies will be the PM after her; she wanted Sanjay to be the man, but he died in the plane crash. The rumoutr was that when she visited the wreckage of the plane and his burned body, she was looking for a key that Sanjay had, because he had some secret lockers he was maintaining for the mama.

    History and destiny work different ways. Sonia was a reluctant politician, so also Rajiv. Menaka Gandhi, Sanjay’s wife, was politically very ambitious (Mrs GAndhi never liked her, because of her family pedigree ).. Had Sanjay not died in the crash, he would have been PM, and after his death Menaka. Mrs GAndhi groomed Sanjay to be the PM, he interfered in all policies, he was her main fixer.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    I could not have written that better myself.

    However, you may have misunderstood my point.

    I totally agree that J.L. Nehru did not do any dynastic stuff himself. But was he the recipient of dynastic stuff from his father, M.L. Nehru. That was the point I was making. I have not written a single word against J. L. Nehru. As a young boy, I went to his funeral.

    The rest I have no dis-agreement with.

    It is a quiz night in our pub, so I am off. Catch you tomorrow.

    S Singh Reply:

    Well, Motilal was a promoter..

    The source of his money is clouded. Plus he was not a qualified lawyer

    Rizwan Reply:

    Balwinder announces – ..If Syed, Gopi Thomas, Mishraji, Raju kURIEN, Benoy Hegde, Mohan or Ashish say the joke is cruel, I will admit defeat.
    Otherwise we will diagnose ravi-ISI as a case of lack-of-homouritis and he will be sent to Dr Shan for brain surgery. I will foot the bill hehe
    No one else other than the above mentioned good gentlemen will be the judges……
    ===========

    Gee whiz thanks Balwinder for excluding me and shan from the gentlemen’s club !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Rizwan

    Feel free to take Balwinder’s side. It will no skin off my vulpine hooter.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Hi Rizwan:

    I sent you a note regarding ur Lahore ki Kali on this blog (but looks like quite a lot of comments here were dropped throughs ome system malfunction)

    I wanted to let you know there are “royal” Muslim girls in Kerala; give me a nod, I can connect! The Thangal family travces their roots to the Prophet. So also many families such as Keyi…marakkar etc..

    BTW Arakkal family in my home district of Kannur was the only Msulim ruling family in Malabar. Interestingly enough, only women members could be the king (must be because of the matriarchial system prevalent among the dominant community of Nairs); tand they were aclled Raja (and not Rani), the last king being AadiRaja Amina Beevi…

    The famous cinematographer Santhosh Shivan has just released a movie “Urumi” (with vidya Balan, Prithviraj etc), based on a story based on the princess from this family and her lover, the Hindu warlord from the neighbouring Chirakkal (Kolathiri) Varma royal family…and both going after the Portugese in 1480s (Vascoda Gama landed in Kozhikode in 1450s and conquered sebvreal local kingdoms) .. I believe the movie is released simultaneously in English and Hindi too.. Please see if you get a chance..

    tajender Reply:

    lahori kali kahtee hai,

    jisko ho deen o dil azeez

    wo meri galee mein aye quien.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dil hi to hai, na sang-o-ghist dard se bhar na aaye kyon
    Royen ge hum hazare bar gair humein sataye kyon

    shan Reply:

    @He He , In case you did not know the meaning of xenophobic, it means fear /hatred of foreigners(read pakistan). He He , panditji , can be reasonably described as xenophobic

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    chor… ulta….kotwal…daante
    yaar shan, mazaak kar raha hai, u- the biggest islamophobe- teogadia with a rationalist wolf’s coat

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    i dont understand how feroze became feroze ghandhi.his vedic marriage with indira was illegal
    as he never converted and vedics are only born.ghandhi forced this to happen but why. that way sanjay and rajeev were both illegetimate.dont be angry with me pls tell me.i could not understand this contradition.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    i dont understand how feroze became feroze ghandhi.his vedic marriage with indira was illegal
    as he never converted and vedics are only born.ghandhi forced this to happen but why. that way sanjay and rajeev were both illegetimate.dont be angry with me pls tell me.i could not understand this contradition

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    If there was no Indira Gandhi
    there would be no Bangladesh
    and we would have now had nuclear missiles staring at India from BOTH of its borders.

    India has always defended, from 1947 to 1965 to Kargil to Kashmir and bomb blasts in the 21st century. 1971 was the only time that India defended its long term interest by going on the attack. Thank her for that, India’s second loh-purush after Sardar Pate (the first was Lal Bahadur Shastri)
    Good night all

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    registered marriage would have solved the problem.she was forced by ghandhi(pujari of satya and ahinsa)to to go for vedic marriage which was wrong and not expected from person like him.

    indira was great.sardar patel would havebetter better pm.but like modi he was semieducated and speaking street language.not good for international image of country.ghadhi was establishing ramrajya.hence patel cannot be no1.it has to be brhmn.it is only because of sardar patel that murderers of ghandhi were caught and one of them hanged.nehru was scared of them.in 1969 i met indira ghandhi after
    first big mascare of muslims in ahmadabad.i smelled the same.i could feel she was scared of this group.it is only because of taking decisions under pressure of hindu surakhsha samiti in delhi.harminder saheb was attacked and later she was murdered.

    neverthless this is life.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I would like to add some points without contradicting any of your points.

    1. Pakistan as a TWO winged nation was hardly a stable concept. The chances are that it would have split apart of its own accord.

    2. All Indira Gandhi did was to hasten that process.

    3. Would you not agree, whilst it reduced the territory of Pakistan, it made it more virulent.

    4. The present “existential” threat that Pakistan perceives is because India was successful in fragmenting it once and may try to split it again.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I do not think losing territorry made it more virulent.

    I think Zia Haq undid Pakistan. He used the loss of Bangala Desh as a curse of Allah to bring Islam, that too orthodox fundamentalist Wahabism into all aspects of administration including the army. As they say, the rest is history

    A similar thing happened in the 1200s when Baghdad was invaded by the mongols ; Mullahs declared it is because Allah was upset because of exploration and questioning of Quran; and the doors of Ijtehad were shut for ever freezing Islam into its “status” today –no inquiry, no analysis,buzz) t

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Gopi

    As we have discussed this before.

    I think we ihabit different sides of the same fence.

    To you Islamisation is the MOTIVE to me it is a cynical MEANS.

    Pakistan is 100% India Focused, and created & uses Islamists as a MEANS to achieve its political goals. Zia Ul Haq included.

    The fact that this TOOL as gone independant of its master, is a seperate discussion.

    tajender Reply:

    later progenies of changez khan accepted islam and baghdad again became flourishing city but could not recoup with the destruction of their libareries and other scientific researhes.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    mishraji, theek pharmaya- “”"If there was no Indira Gandhi, there would be no Bangladesh
    and we would have now had nuclear missiles staring at India from BOTH of its borders.

    India has always defended, from 1947 to 1965 to Kargil to Kashmir and bomb blasts in the 21st century. 1971 was the only time that India defended its long term interest by going on the attack.”"”
    ———
    WELL SAID DOC, AND SIKHS WERE AT THE VERY CENTER OF THIS AND EVERY OTHER BATTLE INDIA HAS FOUGHT THROUGH THE AGES. Punjab is drenched with the blood of our martyrs

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Which way do you think China’s nuclear missiles are facing.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    China and your pakistan not only threaten India but entire west.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I have always felt that the only community that has never got its due is SIKH community. Their contribution in our freedom struggle is unparallel. They have been a big part of Indian Armed forces and their contribution in all the four major wars is commendable.
    It hurts me when I see almost nobody supporting or addressing their genuine demands. They under the influence of pakistan got strayed for few years but looking at their contibution and what India has done for them, there is lot we have to do for this community who according to me is most constructive after Parsis. If you compare them with muslims, you will find that muslims have been crybabies who not only divided this land but kept betraying it from time to time. But our media and others treat muslims as holy cows because they form 14% of voteback enough to win elections for corrupt parties.
    The sikhs are ignored because they are just 2.5% and really don’t make a big difference except for punjab.
    The minimum India can do for our Sikh brothers is to get them justice for 1984 massacre.

    The muslims don’t deserve so much of attention from us or media because their contibution has always been negative whether it is population control, peace or anything else. They just demand and demand but hardly contribute in positive manner. They got their pakistan and bangladesh, treat non-muslims like animals where they are in majority but in India they want to occupy the centerstage. India is currently being run for the muslims and their pleasure. They don’t deserve so much attention. We should focus more on peaceful constructive communities like Sikhs and Parsis.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rajeev

    We should celebrate everybody’s contribution, and criticize everybody’s “give me, give me” attitude.

    Politicuians obviously look for vote banks; media obviously look for consumers and markets. So, the 14% Muslims get more attention than they should.

    But the biggest danger is, as I see, to make the majority community feel like the non-wanted, ignored minority. That is an environment that in the past produced Nazis, and recently the inhuman destruction of Tamil gurillas (am not a fan of Tamil gurillas). By constant pampering of the Muslims, all our politicians are driving the majority community to this situation

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    constant pampering ofmuslims

    in what way.what muslims need is job according to their percentage and equal treatment not attention.they need justice.in 600 partition riots thousands are killed and their wealth plundered .did anybody arrested or punished.we get attention through bad news fabricated by media.from last 8 years hindu terrorist were planting the bombs ,muslims were blamed.my brother-law who is painter of mf hussain level with bania wife took six months to get accomodation in delhi.job no question.
    attention of favour to muslims is parivar propaganda to provocate middle class hindus and take their votes.nazi word is is coming from ashknazis(jews)they zoinist responsible for 2nd world war.in india they are present since hegdewar and savarkar since 1926.language is the same.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tajender,
    Let us drop the hypocrisy. Let me give reason why muslims are not in govt. jobs.
    1. The elite of muslims community went to pakistan leaving behind poor converts.
    2. There is no emphasis on higher education in your community.
    3. Most of the muslims due to their low education opt for self employement.
    4. Muslims prefer NOT to join Indian armed forces because they consider fighting against fellow muslims across the border against their religion.

    So it is better you don’t give us KACHCHAR committee BS which is based on sample survey to meet electoral demands of Congress. The muslims are major part of black economy and are no way comparable to dalits. They want to just have all the benefits they can.

    tajender Reply:

    Let us drop the hypocrisy. Let me give reason why muslims are not in govt. jobs

    i am not asking top jobs,muslims can do clerical jobs acn be peon,can do lot of non commissioned jobs.but punditjee or thakur jee give this boy of his clan.

    there is not much interest in education as good education is very expensive and second class education fetch nothing.
    hence self employment is only option left.

    Muslims prefer NOT to join Indian armed forces because they consider fighting against fellow muslims across the border against their religion

    bullshit and pure bullshit muslims all over world are fighting with each other including in pakistan.why muslim will not do this against pakistan or china.

    u people live on assumptions.which is told to u shakhas.zoinists are same everywhere in the world.

    Rajeev Reply:

    See how you have overlooked muslims in US defence forces who opened fire on fellow soldiers.
    The muslims in non-muslim armies can not be relied on.

    It is unwritten rule in every non-muslim army including Indian army.

    tajender Reply:

    The muslims don’t deserve so much of attention from us or media because their contibution has always been negative whether it is population control, peace or anything else. They just demand and demand but hardly contribute in positive manner

    RAJEEV evrey city of up bihar and south is known with skill of muslims by explioting and cheating them,and exporting their products, punjabi traders have become fat,cheating the goverment through taxation have made them extra fat.
    u support sikh i will also support if they genuine demands.but uncessary muslim bashing is
    bad habit.at the en we too are indians.
    economic indicators show their plight.u people thrive of hurting others.genuine demands of sikhs should be met why not.so with muslim also.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tajender,
    Yes, Muslims have contributed but the harm that they have to done to India easily outweighs the goods they did. They are into every criminal activity starting from Hafta vasooling to terrorism, on social they are opposed to population control, polio drops…They have problem with hindu identity of India despite creating ALL MUSLIM Pakistan and Bangladesh. Based on partition, India has right to have hindu identity.
    The muslims have always got more that they deserved.

    How have muslims in majority (pakistan and bangladesh) treated hindus and other minorities including sikhs?

    I am of the firm belief that muslims are eternal whiners who refuse to intermingle and always try to impose their values on other which is not acceptable in any non-muslim majority country. I don’t believe in sounding politically corrupt and am fed up with unnecessary hypocrisy. The muslims are not some superior race or civillization that both east and west should bow down to their whims and fancies. You have to earn others’ tolerance by behaving in a civil way. First treat minorities in your countries well..Allow them to rule you..then come back and ask for more rights in non-muslim countries.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    The muslims have always got more that they deserved.

    like what,

    u are parroting the cd of parivar which is based on faith not on truth.by generating hate against muslims u create ur identitiy.u all are not hindu ,u r simply anti-muslim.

    How have muslims in majority (pakistan and bangladesh) treated hindus and other minorities including sikhs

    they are treated far better than how muslims are treated in india.they were never attacked or plundered.muslim terrorist organization are fighting with america not with local minority.

    in nankana saheb they are builting biggest university of asia with special departmen and research centres on sikhism.

    rajeev u are from this areas,better go and make good study of things.ur mind set up is based on some assumed asumptions,which is far away from reality.but hindutve need this to have control over middle class hindu votes.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Tajendar.

    Well said, my mate

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ram Autar,
    Muslims got Pakistan and Bangladesh almost 30% of undivided India plus they still live in India occupying atleast 15% to 20% of land…That makes it 45-50% of land in the hands of muslims. What else do you want?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ram Autar,
    The population of hindus in west pakistan has come down from 22% to 2%.
    In east pakistan i.e Bangladesh it has come down from 28% to 10%..
    You call this treating minorities well…There has been mass scale ethnic cleansing in pakistan and Bangladesh wiping out millions of hindus/Sikhs and forcing other to flee…

    Whereas in India, muslims have grown from 9% to 14%…

    You muslims are liars of first degree…You are masters in selective amnesia…No muslim country treats minorities fairly…

    The only muslims who can be tolearted are Ahmediyas, Shias and Sufis…others are mostly scum just like you and Ravi.

    Rajeev Reply:

    “genuine demands of sikhs should be met why not.so with muslim ALSO.”

    Unfortunately in India minority means MUSLIMS ONLY. All other minorities (except christians due to west and SOnia) are taken for granted. All Jholachhap NGOs run by likes of Setalvad and National minorities commission work exclusived for MUSLIMS ONLY.

    The muslims have hijacked all the attention/benefits/schemes that are due to ALL MINORITIES. The reason are two-
    1. The violent nature of muslim community and their traitorous nature.
    2. 14% vote bank.

    I have always believed that muslims can not be considered minorities and should be treated on par with majority hindus.

    The constructive minorities need more attention.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Rajeev, puttar, bhaut khush keeta. You spoke from the mind and the heart. Yes, during the eighties, the Sikhs were led astray and we as a quom have to face that.
    But 3000 of us did not have to be butchered like that in Delhi. How difficult is it to bring at least a few of the thugs to a swift justice ? Would heal wounds faster than anything else. I loved the way a young Sikh journalist had very politely, aimed a slipper to land a few yards away from Home Minister, Chidambaram- in 2007 I think.
    As e gesture it was GANDHIAN, but with a sikh spine

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Indian judicial system, another leftover from british, require a complete overhaul. Cases take for generations. Bhopal tragedy was settled after 30 years. The Sikh massacre case still going on. So also so many civil, criminal cases. It is a game between powerful and judiciary. This scoundrel useless of a chief justice KG Banalkjrishnan has amassed so much wealth taking bribes from defendents, it is a joke..

    Some of the civil cases involving property disputes go for forty plus years!

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Actually the stupid Maosists should kill a few top corrupt politicians, judges, bureaucrts..Things will be far better in India

    instead of killing poor constables and teachers

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    I have special place for Sikhism in my heart because I think it is culmination of Indic spritualism but unfortunately it is becoming too much ritualistic like Islam, emphasising more on beard length, Kirpan length, Proper Pagdi etc. There is streak of fundamentalism imported into SIkhism due to close interaction with west and muslims.
    I think sikhs in India have brought it back to its peaceful nature but NRI sikhs have a totally different version of SIKHISM.

    Despite all this I think every hindu should be a sikh and every sikh a hindu. We are inseparable and should remain so.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    :) , :) , :) , :) , :)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I knew Osama lover will blush…after all terrorists can not hide themselves.

    tajender Reply:

    sikhkhism is the off shoot of islam.guru nanak has gone mecca madina and baghdad to take
    knowledge and clear of his doubts.his last journey was to tibet to meet budhdhist gurus.but died on the way.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    That’s a lie…Sikhism is blend of Hinduism and Islam.
    Guru Nanak went to Mecca and slept with his legs facing Kaaba…
    Is it possible for a non-muslims to be in Mecca today forget about pointing his/her legs towards Kaaba?

  • tajender

    as per latest survey ,today reported in hindi daily navbharat time ,in case of peoples happines pakistan stands 40th place while india is on 71th place bangladesh 89 china is 92.32%people in pakistan are considered properous while india 17%.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Navbharat times, Congress controlled corrupt media, indulging in vote bank bolitics

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    92% people of pakistan considered prosperous , stop posting PORKIES

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan,u can read todays navbharat times(today).this is nothing hidden.being born and brought up in bihar i think u can read hindi.i know this my experience.they drink far better whisky and wine than indians.lahore and karachi have more beautiful prostitutes than delhi or bombay.u will ask from where they got money.
    awnser is simple …are fking americans from last 30years and remittances fro muslim countries are huge,around 13 to 14 billions.they are also expert cheat and thieve.tahgewalee
    is succesful film on box office.recently one distributor sold tangewalee to one and by changing title to ikkewali to another in abudhabi and runaway with money.

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    Listen, all — Ram Outar has just started participating positively, so let us not make him go to his wandering land of EVR and Manusmruthi etc..

    Let us argue on ideas, merits; and pinpoint blames on people who should be blamed. Syed, Rizwan, Mirza etc are great examples who are independent of clergy or “majority Muslim (or minority” thinking. Gopi is more rooted in Indian ethos and history and its saints than 50% of the Hindus. Ditto with Balwinder. We are all Indians; diversity is a strength, all flow into eternal India.

    Yes, there are issues with Muslim leaders, Muslim spokespersons, Congress pamperers .. many of the things Congresss has done is imposing stuff on Muslims, whether Muslims wanted or not. Starting with the Hajj Subsidy

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    I whole heartedly endorse the sentiments you express.

    However, I wish you had not used names in your post. It seems that you missed the very important name; Ram Outar has actually not done anything wrong here. Not just you appreciate his restraint, but I am sure others do too. Yet the focus of your post has become him, when I think the man who prompted this advice is spared a mention.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    mr singh muslims dont haj subsidy.it is against tenets of haj.subsidy is cheap air ticket.which provide good bussines to air india.india spents 1000times more on hindu festivals u should object to that as well.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    mr singh muslims dont want haj subsidy

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    that is precisely what i said.. they never wanted it; congress gave to them, and now it is a flashpoint. And unfortunately, the country thinks they got it because they wanted it..

    Congress created all the problems…really..

    They should have disbanded it after independence..

    Rajeev Reply:

    All the Hajjs performed by muslims using Kafir money are invalid..All of those muslims will go to Jahannum where merciful Allah will fry them in Camel Oil.

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Muslims in Indian Army.

    From time to time one hears in this blog a contention that Muslim’s are averse to joining the Indian Army. This is presented as an evidence to the idea that Indian Muslims are not committed to India, some would go as far as to suggest that Muslims living in India are Pakistani’s living in India.

    Even a cursory look beyond the rhetoric would suggest that nothing can be further from the truth.

    3% of Indian Army is Muslim. This is not including the J&K rifles where the Muslims are 50%.

    Here are some of the highest accolades awarded to Indian Muslims.

    Param Vir Chakra

    Company Havildar Major Abdul Hamid, (4 Grenadiers)

    Maha Vir Chakra

    Mohammed Ismail: 1947-48 Operation
    Brig. Mohammed Usman: Indo-Pakistan War

    I hear the bigots saying.

    Well the Param Vir Chakra should have been awarded to the Bhajan singer Anup Jalhota, who that year exploded a bigger bomb in his nappy than Abdul Hamid did on the border. The award was given on the basis of vote bank politics as practised by Congress and avoided by the RSS front BJP.

    The Indian Army is organised much in the same lines as it was when the British Ruled India. There are Sikh, Dogra, Jat, Maratha, Rajputana etc regiments. There are no Muslim regiments, because Muslims opposed the British Raj and were not trusted. A sentiment that the Hindus inherited and maintain it.

    These regiments recruit on traditional, geographical, tribal, caste lines and Muslims yet again miss out.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    BullShit..Talk to somebody from Army…You civillians keep Bshitting day in day out.

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    Air Marshal Latif, the ex chief of air force is a Muslim. In fact, he was a decorated performer in the Bangla Desh liberation war.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ Rajeev- your comment is too general – “The violent nature of muslim community and their traitorous nature”.
    Highlight the violence of the mafia (Dawood and co), highlight the educational underachievement which is linked to poverty and crime, highlight the Islamist violence of A FEW- but do not make a sweeping generalisation.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Mishra/Rajeev

    We have to be cognizant that there are bigger Dawoods among Hindus these days — stealing thousand times than Dawood , 2 G, Comonwealth, Adarsh…all over.. (of course there are Muslims too ilike the khan guy in pune – i hope they go aftyer him; it seems several chief ministers including the dead ysr parked their money with him)

    The only difference for now may be that they are not instigating communal violence and bombing like Dawood.

    Let us go after Dawoods and Rajas and kalmadis– all are scums.

    Jai Hind!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Singh,
    Let us not get philosophical. I am talking of hard terror unleased by muslims everywhere in the form of criminal activity to terror activity.

    You can handle Raja-Kalmadi etc, thru court but can you handle Dawood, Osama or Ravi thru courts…These guys will blow you up.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Mishra,
    “your comment is too general – “The violent nature of muslim community and their traitorous nature”.”
    My comments are not general but apply to large sections of muslims inluenced by Saudi wahabism.

    When was the last time you met a muslim who showed any interest in joining Indian Armed forces?
    When was the last time you saw a muslims showing minimum basic repect for other faiths?

    What have muslims done around the world in non-muslim countries? Almost every muslim minority (above 10%) have shown inclination to divide the country.

    We hindus have habit of kicking our own balls to appease muslims. We should not give them any special treatment…They should be treated as majority in India. These people have been stealing the benefits and rights of true minorities.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    p-ure bbullshit spreaded in shakhas by chutias for chutias.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We all know Pakistanis are C-Types..You and RAVI have been proving that all the time.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    ravi- isi- your comment is very thought provoking-

    Ravi’s words- 1. Pakistan as a TWO winged nation was hardly a stable concept. The chances are that it would have split apart of its own accord.

    2. All Indira Gandhi did was to hasten that process.

    3. Would you not agree, whilst it reduced the territory of Pakistan, it made it more virulent.

    4. The present “existential” threat that Pakistan perceives is because India was successful in fragmenting it once and may try to split it again.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    My reply to this-

    1. If the Pakistanis were overall a nice mature civil society, then then Bangladesh need not have seceded.

    2. Indira Gandhi was a giant on the world stage to have withstood the enormous pressure of US and with surgical precision, cleaved the monster. Can you imagine the following leaders achieving the same if they were PM- oily smarmy merchants all- mullah Mulayam, Amar Singh, Divijay Singh, Arjun Singh, Karunanidhi, A Raja, Jagjivan Singh etc etc

    Indira had more testosterone than this lot and Thatcher put together !!

    3. Pakistan has always been virulent towards hindus/ sikhs. Or should I say radical islam has always been so- whether in the garb of the Turki-Afghani etc invaders, or when ‘indigenous’ rulers Butshikhan Sikander unleashed murderous ‘conert or else brutality’ in Kashmir, or when Aurangzeb made all hindus second class citizens ….or moving to the last century when the Moplah muslims killed and raped in Kerala or Razakars did the same in Hyderabad.
    So no change there
    4. This point has merit and does reflect their insecurity. However, I blog a lot on Pak newspapers and the intelligent Pak journalists- Hasan Nisar, Najam Sethi, Irfan, Raza Rumi – have been shouting themselves hoarse that Pakistan needs to stop being PARANOIDISTAN.

    THEY SAY PAKISTAN IS THE MOST ‘INTELLECTUALLY’ LANDLOCKED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dr Mishra.

    I dont believe we are miles apart here.

    1. Pakistan was a civilised society, however, no one, not even a civilised society can protect itself from an ego maniacal charismatic leader. In this case Zulfiqar Ali Bhuto, who steadfastly refused to accept Mujibhur Rehman as the winner of elections. The west Pakistan had not calculated that their hegemony would be one day taken away from them. In the end it was, with some help from Indira Gandhi.

    3. I think we have made a bit of a kedgeree here, far too many violences mixed as if they were made of same grain. However, let me focus on one. The success of Two Nation theory depended upon the co-operation of Muslim League. The league wanted some influence, in the sense it wanted and Islamic Republic. Having secured that, they started to nudge it rightwards to ever more fundamentalist approach to life. Where as the Pakistan elite, which included the army, wanted to use Islam for foreign policy, the Muslim League had its eye on the domestic theatre.

    You live by religion, then you would die by religion.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Mishra and Ravi

    There is a nice article in today’s Dawn by Nadeem Pacha about islamization of Pakistan army– how early it started, how bad it is now etc. All officer candidates are supposed to read Maududi (who is banned in Muslim Bengla Des because of his Jehadism!) ; and all are given the book as a graduation gift along with the medals!

    He also talks about the brainwashing they have done inculcating that they are a different breed from Arabia, nothing to do with Indians/Asians…

    Just figure out..what do you expect then?

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    I would agree, in the sense that, total indoctrination is taking place. In other words, it is not a natural occurrence but is being forced upon gullible and captive recruits.

    In other words, this is a manufactured weapon because, recently the efficacy of this weapon has been proved and more of it is being purchased.

    It is in this context that Zia mentions in this blog that we need to distinguish between Islamic Violence and Islamist violence.

    I am of the opinion that this weapon would fail and one day will consume Pakistan.

    tajender Reply:

    maudidi is muslim zoinist his own son eat pork drink wine in america.

    Rajeev Reply:

    MAUDIDI was actually a truly muslim full of hate and doublespeak…
    Eating pork is not sin..Even your Jinnah ate pork and drank hard liquor.

    It is possible that even Mohammad tried pork and didn’t like it.

    tajender Reply:

    dr saheb moplah rebellion was against britishers not against hindus.till nairs agreed to join
    britishers to suppress rebellion it was guerilla attacks on britishers,

    Moplah Rebellion
    an antifeudal and anti-imperialist uprising of the Moplahs, the Muslim population of the Malabar district of Madras Province in British India during 1921.

    The majority of the Moplahs were tenant-farmers and agricultural laborers. Their rebellion was one of the major peasant uprisings during the revolutionary movement of 1918–22. The rebellion began after British colonial troops attacked a large gathering of believers in a mosque in the small town of Tirurangadi on August 20. The rebels seized railroads, cut telegraph lines, and paralyzed the British administration.

    The rebellion was headed by a drayman, Kunahmad Harj, a participant in the Khilafat (caliphate) movement. The rebels took over the districts of Ernad and Valluvanad, and there they proclaimed their kingdom. The Moplah rebellion was also directed against local Hindu landowners, who fled their estates; Hindu tenant-farmers fought alongside the Moplahs. Despite their inferior armaments, the Moplahs waged successful guerrilla warfare for a time against British troops. But at the end of 1921 the Moplahs were forced to surrender. The suppression of the rebellion was accompanied by atrocities committed by the colonial authorities. In the mountains, the Moplahs’ armed struggle continued until the end of February 1922.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    BIG LIE…READ what Gandhi and Annie Besant said about Moplah riots…You muslims lie as if you are programmed to do it. Shameless liars.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ram /Rajeev

    Ram, you should be ashamed to throw that garbage as the explanation of Mappila Lahala..

    In 1820, Tipu Sultan raped Malabar region; forcefully converting thousands and killing and looting many. 100 years later, as a part of the Khilafet movement (which did not have anything to do with India, but with the Turkey caliphate and Mecca/madina status), Muslims raped and looted and killed again in the infamous Moplah revbellion, or what we refer as Mappila Lahala..

    Ali Muslyar, the local chief of Khialafet in Tirur (in the present day Malappuram) declared in late 1920s that Delhi has fallen from English, the sultanate has taken over, and he is the representative in the Malabar area. As usual for Muslims, rape and looting of places of worship started, and forced conversions and killings of other religious believers, in this case Hindus.. The violence was extreme, with moplahs going after “higher caste Namboodiris and Nair women” .. It took the British two weeks to send enforcements from Madras, by then the damage has been done. (Malabar Special Police. MSP, was formed after this to take care of communal violence in Malabar). Mahathama Gandhi was visibly shaken by the magnitude of the violence, he essentially declared that Khilafet is becoming violent and he will lsevere the congress connections with Khilafet, and later severed the Khilafet connection when another violent eruption happened in Maharashtra few mnths later.
    Annie Besant’s recording of the evenyts after she visited Malabar immediately following this is there for the history, so also the government proceedings. So also the many converted families, so also the lootings of many temples.

    Mahakavi (great Poet) Kumaran Aasan (one of the three Mahakavis of Kerala) wrote a poem “Duravastha” ( “Miserable Situation”) about a real life Namboodiri girl being raped by Msulims during the Moplah riots and then pushed to a Harijan to marry her. (Kumaran Aasan was no forward caste).

    Now this is what the leftists (and Congress) did after Malappuram district was formed – they officially declared that mopla rebellion was an agrarian revolution and not a blood bath done by Muslims. And, the current Marxist government banned the teaching of “Duravastha” as a text book for Malayalam Poetry for the BA/MA courses because they felt it will trigger communal revolts. Little that they knew that you did not ahve to teach “Duravastha” for Muslims to chop off hands of a professor.

    Now there is another related event too- Please Google Ramasimhan case – Ramasimhan’s mother was forcefully converted during the riots. Later, in early 40s Ramasimhan and his brother got reconverted to Hinduism, so also their children. (children were converted into Sikhism) Ramasimhan’s brother Dayasimhan married a Brahmin girl Kamala Antharjanam (Antharjanam is the surname of Namboodtri women). The whole Ramasimhan family (he, his wife, his brother Dayasimhan, his wife Kamala and their two children) were massacred by Moplahs one week before the independence day (August 7th 1947) to avenge for reconverting back to Hinduism. (Mullahs felt there will be mass reconversion back to Hindism if decisive violent actions were not taken) Ramasimhan’s children, Fateh and Dara Singhs (they were anointed as Sikh children) were not at the home at the time, so they escaped death. however, their grandfather reconverted them back to Islam.

    The secular government after independence insisted that the culprits let go free. So, the murderers were let go free in late 50s.

    Ram, you should be ashamed to whitewash all these. I expected beter from you.

    tajender Reply:

    Aurangzeb made all hindus second class citizens

    aurangzeb had 36.5 %hindu ministers in his cabinet.brhmns were his biggest supporter.under him india became economic super power.all tem[les in chitrakoot were built on his instruction..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    LIE….Prove to us that he has 36.5421111333% hindus in his cabinet. Typical MUSLIM lie.

    tajender Reply:

    31 am

    LIE….Prove to us that he has 36.5421111333% hindus in his cabinet. Typical MUSLIM lie

    go to internet.rajputs and brhmns were his biggest supporter.u can take everything from net.now nobody can speak lie as everything can be rechecked.

    Rajeev Reply:

    I googled and never found 36.5%…now…prove it.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi forgets to mention that west pakistanis killed 3 million east pakistanis (almost 60% of them were hindus) and raped 300000 women.
    Pakistan itself hastened its division. India only acted in self-interest when 10 million refugees poured into west bengal with no end in sight.
    The two nation theory was flawed right from the start because muslims of north west pakistan had nothing common with Bengalis or UP-Bihar muslims.

    My Muhajir pakistani friends have told me number of times that they are not treated fairly in pakistan and as far as hindus are concerned, they are even afraid to reveal that they are hindus.
    The pakistan state is for Punjabis only..all other nationalities are living under occupation. Just google about Balochistan and you will find that their sentiments towards pakistan are far worse than our kashmiris towards India.

    Pakistan is basically a defunct state where muslims are attacking other muslims blowing up sufi shrines, Ahmediya mosque, abducting hindu girls, raping balochi women, marginalizing sindhis and encounter killing Muhajirs.

    The muslims like Ravi and Ram Autar are the true beneficiary of terrorist state called pakistan.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    killed 3 million east pakistanis

    rubbish and propanda why goverment is not publishing list.in dhakha many vakils are asking this.7 out of 9 months they were on retreat.hiding and struggling for their life.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tell that to Bangladesh govt. Officially figure is 3 million and it will remain so..We know you pakistanis are liars..Your lie in Kargil is still fresh in everyones memory.

    Rajeev Reply:

    How many people have you guys killed in SUDAN? Is that also a propaganda?

    The muslims have killed atleast 5 times more than hitler but 1.5 billion muslim propagadists keep telling lies never accepting truth.

    tajender Reply:

    The muslims have killed atleast 5 times more than hitler but 1.5 billion muslim propagadists keep telling lies never accepting truth.

    where..sudan is in problem because of their natural wealth.one group is supported by other.casaulaties are multiplies by thousand or million like now in libya.now in sudan war is finished.south got freedom.europeans/americans got control of their oil reseve.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Whatever the reason Arab muslims and slave muslims like you have killed millions of black muslims..

  • shan

    @Zia huque, syed, ashish
    this is my last ditch attempt to salvage this blog from the internet version of street gang warfare one sees in the deprived inner city areas.. Like the characters in the gang , who are intellectually challenged and mind seeping in violence , we are seeing the same thing here. the silly tittle tattle.
    So let me bring in a fresh perspective.This being an easter weekend , we have a long weekend , and i decided to take the whole week off. i could have gone abroad , then with an indian passport it isn’t easy.i am aware with pakistani passport it is pretty much impossible. For the Schengen visa for holland , only thing they dont ask is what is your preferred sexual position.
    So I true to my islamophobic character , I went to watch the exhibition in British museum titled AFGANISTAN ,CROSS ROADS OF CIVILIZATION. Its not free , there is a ten pound entree fee , and my high speed train fare from gravesend to london in twenty minutes.
    Yes mo f kers TALIBAN should be erased from the surface of this earth. The first object , from kabul
    museum which has been excavated from afganistan was damaged by these scums.
    apparently zahir shah when he went to northern afganistan for a shooting party , the locals showed this bust , WHICH WAS OF A GREEK YOUTH (any brain dead person can make out it is greek , by the dress , features, hair etc) .zahir shah immediately informed the french who carried the excavation. What they discovered was the capital of alexander’s general selucus , his kingdom known as BACTRIA.
    It was simply jaw dopping . There is no doubt , the pot used as a keep safe has a greek alphabet inscription which says Nicator has today deposited drachm witnessed by another greek.
    The one article that nearly made me pass out was an object from 100 BC yes BC .any guess
    IT WAS A KARAHI exactly like it is used this day of 21st april 2011 in India .it was of bronze , that is why it has become green from oxidation to copper oxide.
    Next was several objects from india found in that excavated palace . One was a back rest of a chair or sofa like thing. the releif on the ivory had the scene from the front of houses . The gate was UNMISTAKABLY SANCHI anybody who has seen the photograph will recognise at an instant. Apparently these were imported from india . But modern afganistan is only 200 hundreed yrs old. Bactria encompasses whole of british northern india plus gujrat. The gold coins , chains discovered and were on display clearly proves there was gold mining there , and greek historians attest to the gold mines of bactria.
    The Karahi proves what intrigued Patrick french, THAT INDIAN PEOPLE THINK THEIR IS A ONE UNBROKEN CIVILIZATION FROM HARRAPPA .
    There was a lot of wine produced in that northern afganistan , the pictures of vine leaf on the pots and other objects attest to this.Glass bowl discovered from that palace came from egypt , which was found in the palace of kushan king Kanishka. Again it is not rocket science , you will see pictures of women with khajur and the glass jar or bowl covered with enamel on the outside.
    Apparently INDIA USED TO SELL SO MUCH GOODS TO ROME ,A ROMAN HISTORIAN’S WORDS ON DISPLAY THERE, SAYS “every year india depletes Rome of several thousand roman coins”, looks like roman coins were the dollar of its time.Incredible I didn’t see many Buddhist relics, would some blogger enlighten me , is buddhism post bactrian period and kushan period.Though we know there were huge BAMIYAN BUDDHAS of which Iranian traveller historian’s quote was on display.Incredible these people were perfectly at ease with these including Taimur Lung but these m f kers TALIBAN stooped to such a low level by destroying it .Which again i find bizarre , beacuse as I understand Prophet hiself said “go to china if need be to seek knowledge”, clearly he had noproblem with other cultures.Why he used the word china. My guess is he knew pretty well about the origin of the caravans in the SILK ROUTE for he himself used to raid them for a living. There was so many objects it would take a week to properly cover them all.
    BUT I SALUTE THE BRAVERY OF THE AFGHAN CURATORS WHO HID THESE OBJECTS FROM THE SEX MANIAC BUCCHABAZI OBSESSED TALIBAN

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    IT WAS A KARAHI exactly like it is used this day of 21st april 2011 in India .it was of bronze , that is why it has become green from oxidation to copper oxide

    shan utensiles like this can be found in the grave of tutakhamoon in egypt.5000 years old.even machardaanis.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    The arabs never invented a thing except for camel milk and tent…They got everything by invading and appropriating other cultures as their own especially persian culture…

    Muslims have no culture of their own…They steal land, language, culture from others.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rajeev u talk on mindset not on reality from algebra to alkaline are all arabic word.grave of tutakhamoon is intact go to egypt.see.from coffe u drink and watch u wear are muslim inventionin between there are 1001 innovative invention.
    nobody can be conviced against his wishes.

    tajender Reply:

    The arabs never invented a thing

    shakhas told u like this ask ur donkey instructor who invented algebra alchohol alkaline
    oxford and cambridge were started with books from muslim spain.when eeurope had no concept of library and european rulers could not write their names only cordoba had 71 libraries with more than million books in them

    Rajeev Reply:

    All those 1001 inventions have been debunked by muslims and ex-muslims.
    Visit website of Prophet Ali Sina (PBUH) for more details.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Arabs stole knowledge of Persia and India & called its own..Arab numerals have Indian origin, Dome structure is from persia..

    Arabs could only build ugly cube such as Kaaba…Nothing more than that.

    tajender Reply:

    original ibn sina is father of medicine.this bstrd is zoinist agents.paid heavily for writing bullshit.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Prophet Ali Sina (PBUH) has defeated all the muslim scholars and no one has been able to prove him wrong on Islam and Mohammad till date.
    He is light of truth that abandoned Islam and is helping people like you to leave the darkness behind.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    The sanskrit plays like Shakuntala and Mricchkaticum clearly mention hindu ladies favouring chinese garments. So clearly the hindu civilisation was actively trading with , not just the Greeks, Romans but also the chinese.
    Emperor Ashok had his sayings inscribed on severasl rocks all over his kingdom which stretched from Afghnistan to Burma. I think the language was prakrit, but interestingly, his rock edicts towards Afghanistan were in GREEK.
    We should also pride ourselves that the world’s first vet hospitals- were set up by Ashok in ?200 BC.
    At any time, our ancient universities like Nalanda and Takshila (now in Pak) had 5000-10,000 students in them, several from overseas
    Actually if one remembers carefully, this was taught to us in India in class 5-8 !

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mishraji,
    But muslim claim to have invented everything even use of water… :)

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    budhdhists have done lot but all these institutions were destroyed by vedics.after defeat of budhdhists.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Same Buddhists who were residents of Afghanistan and Pakistan but got wiped off by invading muslims.
    May be your ancestors were peaceful buddhists but you guys pooped in your robes at the sight of invading muslims.
    You are now trapped in prison called Islam..If you try to come out, your fellow muslims will behead you.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Same Buddhists who were residents of Afghanistan and Pakistan but got wiped off by invading muslims

    pls give me the name of invader.people of afghanistan and iraq converted to islam after hearing.even missionaries have not gone there.why u are worried buhdhdists were mascred by ur forefathers ran away to neighbouring countries.

    islam is very deep rooted in their mind and soul.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Rs 46 crores was raided by election officers in Tamil Nadu – from four checkposts. The money was supposedly to distribute for votes . Nobody has shown up to claim this money.

    Media says this was a diversionary tactic; even larger quantities were being distributed by DMK men while elect commission was raiding this.

    Wonder what DMK does with all that spectrum money?

    People like Karunannidhi gets elected and reelected!

    shan Reply:

    Absolutely true, but money will play a big factor in democratic politics. Full Stop. It plays even bigger role in Japan ,IN USA , elections are playground for big corporation. So i think you need to see the bigger picture. despite all this America has put bernie maddox behind bars , Enron crooks have all been jailed WorldCOM boss is in jail and america has total domination in Information technology , and now mobile telephony.In fact USA is still NO1 whether we like it or not.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    So true, but in contrast the Japanese Yakuza hardly ever are sent to prison.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Sikhism is blend of Hinduism and Islam.
    Guru Nanak went to Mecca and slept with his legs facing Kaaba…
    Is it possible for a non-muslims to be in Mecca today forget about pointing his/her legs towards Kaaba?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    he was not as chut1a as u are he was great man.all these stories for street idiots like u.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Terrorist boy,
    Answer this-
    Is it possible for a non-muslims to be in Mecca today forget about pointing his/her legs towards Kaaba?

    We all know pakistanis in general are C-types. You are a perfect example.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    there is oberio hotel in mecca.owned by mohan singh oberoi.with security u can go.if ub are known to clergy also u can go.retrications are not because of religious reasons it is because of security reasons.guru nanak w3as guest of muslim clergy.thoseb days i dont know if there was any restriction or not.muslim mosques used to become madarssa after prayer.boys of all faith can go.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Bunch of C*R*A*P… Can non-muslims go to Mecca now?
    Why was entry restricted to Mecca?

    tajender Reply:

    Bunch of C*R*A*P… Can non-muslims go to Mecca now
    with permission yes .i have stayed in oberoi hotel.

    S Singh Reply:

    Why would non-Muslims want to do that?

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    @ GOPI, wonderful account of Mappila tragedy, we muslims must nver try and excuse it as ramavter /tajender does. It belongs to the category of Sikh riots, Godhra-Gujerat killings, a terrible blot on a gr8 India.
    Rajeev, why u continue to indulge in a mindless tu tu main main with tajender- PLEASE PLASE IGNORE HIM, other wise one is swimming in tonnes of pointless cut and paste, trying to pik up the useful gems posted by others.

    @mishraji- excellent info abt Nalanda. Did you know an IIT IS ABT to come up there- thought this news wud gladden yr heart – http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-Man-Land/entry/return-of-the-native

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rizwan u dont interfere in something which u dont know.this gopi thomas is communal fascist and liar.he thinks others dont know true side of story.moplah rebellion was started against british and landowners.it wa not hindu-muslim conflict.british passed law through which landlord will take 85%of crop from peasants.hinbdu and muslim tenets rebelled against english people.ghandhi supported uprising.but at last stages when british brought extra troops ,nairs were inducted in police by britishers ,communal roits started as they started killing and murdering people on religious ground.

    Nair landords were responsible for Mophlah revolt – it helped end upper caste domination in Malabar

    Gopi, let me educate you on the history of the Malabar. The Hindus in Kerala consist of the Namboodiris, the Nairs, the Ezhavas and the out castes.

    Among the Hindus, the upper caste oppression in the 1900s included untouchabilty and even unseeability. The Namoodiris are the local Brahmins – maybe not as evil as your TN Brahmins, about whom Periyar said ‘when you see a snake leave it, when you see a Brahmin kill him’.

    The Nairs were in the army and were the landlords. The Ezhavas are the low castes. In those days, a Nair expected an Ezhava woman to salute him. The low caste Hindu women wore just a towel-like clothe over their breasts. The Nair landlord had to be saluted by the woman by lifting the towel and baring her breasts. This was the Hindu culture of the period.

    The Mophlahs are converts to Islam – many of the Ezhava people and some of te upper castes also had intermarried with Arabs sailors and traders. Mophlah means groom or son-in-law; the locals valued their foreign born son-in-laws.

    The Mophlah rebellion began when a Nair landlord ripped off the blouse of an Ezhava woman convert, who had dared to appear before him clothed above the waist. The Muslims then killed the Nair landlord. The Nair landlords were known for their atrocities against low castes and Muslims. The Mophlahs rose in rebellion against them.

    The Mophlas also had a tradition of fighting the Portuguese and the British invaders. The British found the Hindus like the Nairs more amenable to their rule. But not the Muslims. So the British sided with the Hindu Nairs. They set up a Malabar Special Police (MSP), which consisted of only Hindus, to attack the Mophlas.

    So as we have seen in India’s history, the Muslims were fearless and willing to fight the British, but the Hindus were with the British. It happened during the Mophlah rebellion. The Muslims took on the British, but Hindu police and the Nairs served the British. The British were of course masters because they could always find some group of Indians who would collaborate with them. In the battle against Tipu, the British were aided by the Marathas. It happened in 1857, when the Muslims and Hindus joined together to fight the British. Then the British found Sikh troops to put down the challenge. They punished the Muslims for organizing the rebellion.

    Thus the history of the Mophlah rebellion involves three parties – the Muslims, the Hindus and the British. The Hindus were not innocents as you imagine, and the British had a crafty role to play.

    How will you compare this with Modi’s Gujarat ? This occurred in independent India. The British are gone but the Hindus have taken up the game of divide and rule.

    To make such a comparison proves what I have said – the Hindus are unfit to rule India. The British at least built institutions in India. What did the Hindus do apart from disintegrate it ?

    The Hindus did not even allow their women to cover themselves. This was the level of their civilisation. It took the Mophlas to kill the Nair landlords and liberate the people of Kerala from upper caste oppression.

    Now you see Kerala has a good communal climate, there is little tension except that created by RSS fellows from outside. Kerala is 25% Muslim, 25% Christian, 25% Ezhavas and 25% Nairs. The Nairs have lost their pre-eminence.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Thanks for teaching me kerala history, Ram. FYI I was born and brought up in Kerala; we can trace our family tree to almost 2000 yers ago when St Thomas landed here and the local inhabitants gravitated to him. I am a Christian with proud roots in India, Kerala, Hindu heritage.

    What Tipu Sultan did in Malabar (he has done great things in Mysore), what some Moplas did during Mopla Riots, how RAmsimhan and all his family were murdered because they reconverted to Hindusim — all are facts. Sometimes facts are so grotesque, we start whitewashing as time passes. So the stories of Somnath (theyw ere keeping the looted gold in the temple), so the story of Benares (aurengazeb wanted this princess to be saved from the priests), so the marxist/congress rewriting of history of moplah riot as agrarian revolution, so both can go after the Muslim votes ..

    Have you ever thought why there was never a Christian/Hindu riot in Keralaa? Christians are a sizable minority – 20% in the state. The 1920’s Khilafet Mappila Riots, and the recent Marad 1 and Marad 2 were all Muslim-Hindu riots. Ak Antony, the CM during MArad, had the guts to say that minorities in Kerala are fleecing the majority through their special status – He was disciplined by his party for saying that.

    Now coming to Nairs losing their clout –you must be living in some other planet – Jsut look at Central Secretaries – Nirupama Menon Rao in Foreign afafirs (Shiv Sankar Menon before her), Sreemathi Santha Nair in Mines, Sreemathi Rita Menon in Textiles, TKA Nair and Gopalakrishnan as PMs secretaries, KM Chandrasekharan as Cabinet Secretary, GK Pillai for Home Affairs, MK Narayanan as Security Advisor, Madhavan Nambiar for civil Aviation, Radhakrishnan for Space, Raghu Menon for Information, Rudra and Neela Gangadharans, M Ramachandran are all Nairs (the rest of the cabinet secretaries are Kerala Christians !including the vigilance Thomas and Christy fernandez , sec to the President!)

    And that takes me back to Kerala and Malappuram. The latest census (2011) puts Kerala’s 10 year population growth at 4.5%. Malappuram district, with 75% Muslim population, registered a growth of 13.5% (although less than the Indian growth of 17.5%). .

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    sizable minority – 20% in the state. The 1920’s Khilafet Mappila Riots, and the recent Marad 1 and Marad 2 were all Muslim-Hindu riots.

    they were not hindu muslim riots.this was clash between haves and haves not.christians had protection of british army.hence no riot.when hindu landlord /bania will increase their exploitation victims will protest.exploiters will beat them and kill them.hide their evilness in the name of religion.rss gundaas will be brought from other cities and police will provide them with legal and physical protection.

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Unlikely place is the poorest in U.S.

    Thursday, April 21, 2011

    By Sam Roberts, The New York Times

    The poorest place in the United States is not a dusty Texas border town, a hollow in Appalachia, a remote Indian reservation or a blighted urban neighborhood. It has no slums or homeless people. No one who lives there is shabbily dressed or has to go hungry. Crime is virtually nonexistent.

    And, yet, officially, at least, none of the nation’s 3,700 villages, towns or cities with more than 10,000 people has a higher proportion of its population living in poverty than Kiryas Joel, a community of mostly garden apartments and town houses 50 miles northwest of New York City in suburban Orange County.

    About 70 percent of the village’s 21,000 residents live in households whose income falls below the federal poverty threshold, according to the Census Bureau. Median family income ($17,929) and per-capita income ($4,494) rank lower than any other comparable place. Nearly half the village’s households reported less than $15,000 in annual income.

    About half of the residents receive food stamps, and one-third get Medicaid benefits and rely on federal vouchers to help pay their housing costs.

    Kiryas Joel’s unlikely ranking results largely from religious and cultural factors. Ultra-Orthodox Satmar Hasidic Jews predominate in the village where many of them moved from Brooklyn beginning in the 1970s to accommodate a population that was growing geometrically.

    Women marry young, remain in the village to raise their families and, according to religious strictures, do not use birth control. As a result, the median age (under 12) is the lowest in the country, and the household size (nearly six) is the highest. Mothers rarely work outside the home while their children are young.

    Most residents, raised as Yiddish speakers, do not speak much English. And most men devote themselves to Torah and Talmud studies rather than academic training — only 39 percent of the residents are high school graduates, and less than 5 percent have a bachelor’s degree. Several hundred adults study full time at religious institutions.

    The concentration of poverty in Kiryas Joel is not a deliberate strategy by the leaders of the Satmar sect, said Joel Oberlander, 30, a title examiner who lives in Brooklyn. “It puts a great strain on their resources,” he said.

    Still, the Census Bureau’s latest poverty estimates, based on the 2005-09 American Community Survey released last year, do not take into account the community’s tradition of philanthropy and no-interest loans.

    Some families may be eligible for public benefits because they earn artificially low salaries from the religious congregations and other nonprofit groups that run businesses and religious schools. Nearly half of the village’s residents with jobs work for the public or parochial schools.

    Because the community typically votes as a bloc, it wields disproportionate political influence, which enables it to meet those challenges creatively. A 60-bed post-natal maternal care center was built with $10 million in state and federal grants.

    One lawmaker, Republican Assemblywoman Nancy Calhoun, who represents an adjacent Orange County district, has demanded a state inquiry into why Kiryas Joel got grants for the center. “They may be truly poor on paper,” she said. “They are not truly poor in reality.”

    “I cannot say as a group that they are cheating the system,” said sociology professor William B. Helmreich, who specializes in Judaic studies at City College of the City University of New York, “but I do think that they have, no pun intended, unorthodox methods of getting financial support.”

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I was bemused to read this in yesterday’s NY Times… Ya, the poorest place in US happens to be a Jewish town. That too 35 Miles from the world jewish headquaarters, NY.

    We all must be drinking something.

    I bet the bulk of US deficit spending must be on that 20,000 people.!

    Who said they did not know to milk and bulk the system..

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Binoy

    I am sure you guessed why I posted this.

    There are those here who have accused Muslims both in India and in the U.K. of all that is contained in the article above.

    Large families.

    Focus on Religious Education.

    Milking welfare programmes

    Etc.

    My point being that rather than finger pointing, if one was to analyse the underlying factors then the experience is rewarding as well as one gets closer to the truth.

    So before some asks, the Jewish Community has not only produced the above but has also produced the most Nobel Prize winners.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ravi-

    It is all about how prevalent and common are these practices.

    Muslims , in general, do milk the welfare societies – large families, ill educated, religion focused, terror oriented…

    The New York suburb must be a “poster child” for Jewish lobbies to divert massive amounts of money. Jewish population growth is less than replacement levels.

    Using the New York suburb example to equivocate and justify the Musllim situation is like apples and oranges.

    You shopuld stop equivocating and see things in itself. Accept the fact that Muslims havbe problems. Problems have to be resolved. Those problems will not go away because Dalits are not allowed temple entry or when they are allowed.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Binoy

    I am afraid I vehemently dis-agree with you.

    I do not recognise MUSLIM PROBLEMS.

    I only see PROBLEMS.

    These PROBLEMS are common to ALL RELIGIONS and NOT just to MUSLIMS.

    tajender Reply:

    dalits are not hindus.temples are made to make money.like restaurant it is bussines.owner has full right to stop anybody they feel unfit to enter.every caste should have his own temple mosque or church.we should accept the truth that our society consists of caste and subcaste.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Any body and every body can go to Jama Masjid In Delhi.

    However, that is not true when it comes to Hindu Temples.

    Hinduism, denies 200 million Indians of even the basic human dignity.

    In what is one of the ugliest practices in Indian society, temples in a village in India’s Haryana state bars people of Dalit communities from entering and worship.

    A local community reporter Amit Kumar, a Dalit himself reports this in a video showing how his community is forbidden to enter a temple.

    In Barot village of Ludwa, Haryana, Dalits are not allowed to enter the village temples. The temples allow only the villagers who belong to upper castes to worship. Amit talks to several other youths like himself in his community who share the pain and indignity that they face every day.

    The Constituion of India ensures equal rights to all citizens. These include the right to ‘opt, embrace and practice any religion”.

    However, in Barot village of Ludwa the Dalits have always been denied this right. They have been treated as ‘dirty’ and asked by both the upper caste and the temple priest to keep away from the temple.

    Amit says that though the older generation has accepted this denial of rights as a fate, youths in his community are angry and bitter to be treated as untouchables and being barred from having simple joys such as worshipping in a temple.

    Though such discrimination violates the basic human rights and causes a lot of indignity to Dalits, no effort has been made to end this till now. In fact the govt only acts when the prejudice sparks violence and a Dalit family is physically attacked by the upper caste.

    Amit who has been reporting on this discrimination since he joined IndiaUnheard – a news service dedicated to community news, did this video to share with the viewers the humiliation that he experiences every day as a Dalit youth. He wants them to condemn this, so that people like him can live with dignity.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Yet more Dalits not allowed in Hindu Temples.

    Bhopal: Believe it or not, Dalits are not allowed to enter into temples in the native village of Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan. Untouchability is still a way of life despite the tall claims of the chief minister about working towards social justice and harmony in the state.

    The 40-odd Dalit families of the village Jait are still denied entry into the village temple.
    “I’m not allowed to offer my prayers at the temple. I’m being told I’m a Dalit ‘chamar’. What wrong have I done? How am I different from others,” asks Vijayanti Bai.

    But now Vijayanti Bai and others have decided to raise their voice against this discrimination. They have complained to the district administration. Opposition Congress meanwhile has been quick to take up the Dalit cause.

    Suresh Pachauri, president of Madhya Pradesh Congress Committee, says: “It is very unfortunate that untouchability is still being practiced here. If this is the case in the chief minister’s village you can well imagine what is happening in other places.”

    With the heat on them, upper caste villagers are now on the backfoot. Sher Singh Chauhan, a villager says, “people come here from all across the state and no one is denied entry into any temple. All these allegations are motivated.”

    Untouchability and discrimination on the basis of caste is a common practice in many parts of Madhya Pradesh. But this place is the birth place of MP Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan who himself is an OBC and talks about Dalit uplift and social harmony in every public meeting.

    Source : http://ibnlive.in.com/news/dalits-cant-enter-into-cms-village-temple/114762-37-64.html

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Some more Temple Entry Issues.

    Tension in Bhilwara town after Dalits’ entry in temple

    Jaipur, Apr 14 : Tension prevailed in Haled town of Bhilwara district in Rajasthan following minor clash between two groups over entry of Dalits in a temple today.

    According to official sources, a group of Dalits celebrating 120th birth anniversary of Bharat Ratna Baba Saheb Bhimrao Ambedkar entered a temple.

    This made a section of people annoyed who roughed up and scuffled with them and their supporters who gathered there later.

    About half a dozen people injured in the clash were admitted to hospital, sources said adding that additional police force was deployed as a precautionary measure.

    Four to five persons were nabbed in this connection, they added.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi-

    You are distorting Rajeev’s arguments.

    Rajeev’s essence was Muslim states standing in the way of others’ worship. Can temples and Gurdwaras be built in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan etc (I can see Ram and you saying yes).

    There are still many places, mostly in rural North India, that do not allow Dalits to temples. They can resort to the laws of the country, and 100%, they will win. (and bloodshed may follow). Or, they can build their own temple, pick any God they want and worship.

    Population growth, urbanization, and education will change all these. They are called BIMARU states – all have problems, not just Dalits; but Dalits have this added insult.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    In that case, you read me completely wrong.

    What Saudi Arabia allows or does not allow is a matter for the Saudi Government and as liberals we are free to condemn it.

    I condemn it.

    I am no fan of the Saudi Regime, but then I and other Hindus should not define our identity on the basis of what Saudi/Muslims do or do not do.

    My identity is based upon my own belief system and not in contradistinction to some one else’s religion.

    I hold no brief for either the Saudi Government or Islam.

    What I do hold is a brief for straightforward rational arguments rather than mud-slinging.

    However, I remain committed to not allowing one-sided arguments to remain un-balanced. You are free to hate me for that, if it pleases you, if this act of mine suggests to you that I am an anti-Hindu and therefore a Muslim, then so be it.

    BTW there is a Sikh Temple in Iraq and many still remain intact in Afghanistan.

    The temples I site here are mainly in the South and are not your backwater temples but vast pilgrimage centres.

    I agree with you that education and urbanisation will change all of that, but that can also be said of other religions as well, including Islam.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi-

    I disagree with you on many points, especially the last sentence.

    Has it? Will it? Why is Lahore and Karachi exploding – they are urbanized, heavily populated., and I think reasonably educated.

    Do you think Riyadh or Jubail are meccas of tolerance and adaptation?

    Many things spring from a culture of learning and knowledge. I hate to say that Islam, as it is now does not have it.. Of course, many Muslims are educated and do believe in knowledge and education; but that is not in their “blood,” say, like Jews or Hindus. People may call me a racist for saying this, but it is a fact — just observe, look at macros. There are always underlying reasons and causes one can correlate to, and possibly remedial actions that can be taken..but 50% or more of the nobel prize winners for the next 50 years will be Jewish.. .

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    S Singh

    Happy for you to disagree, and hate me, no issues. As suggested before and will repeat again it is no skin off my vulpine nose.

    I have not suggested all that you IMAGINE I am suggesting.

    I agree that many Muslim regimes are intolerant, but then again they are not the only intolerant forces in the world. To mention them and ignoring our own intolerances is not exactly a balanced view.

    All religions have many despicable verses in them. Vedas and Puranas included. And I am sure Al Quran also has lots of disagreeable content.

    What we are all observing is that we have successfully discarded this type of content. Islam has not and is not able to. There is a reason for that.

    Just as Christianity purports to have a USP, in saying the Jesus was THE ONLY SON of God, sent to redeem the humankind from its sins.

    Likewise, Islam believes that Al Quran is THE MESSAGE OF GOD, brought to the humankind by THE MESSANGER. If you believe this then how can you discard selected content from the Quran, after all, ALL OF IT is GOD’s message.

    So for as long as there are Muslims who believe that the language of Quran is LITTERAL rather than SYMBOLIC, then we will continue to have this issue.

    tajender Reply:

    all muslim countries in central asia education is 95%plus.when british took the power we had 93%education and our gdp was 25%of world.when they left literacy was reduced to 8%and and gdp 1.5 percent.under local we are reduced to biggest illeterate country of the world.

    tajender Reply:

    singh jee in pakistan gurudwaras and temples are more safer than mosques in india.only in punjab more than 2000 mosques are under illegal occupation.saudi arabia u cannot built temples.but there are better cases like dubai,malaysia or indonesia.why to compare with worst one.

    Why is Lahore and Karachi exploding
    because of american presence.why dubai is not exploding.beirut used to be heaven of middle of middle east till 1974.but when zoinists and american decided to destablize this area ,this became hell.

    regarding nobel prize and jews.jews were decriminated and hated in west,had no land for them education was the only way to get food.hence they were concentrating on studies more than any other race.
    till renainence most of the invention came from muslim philosophers.in central asia in arab world in muslim india ,education was universal free expenses paid by state.all stars had arabic names.chemistry is from arabic world kemia.crusaders have taken muslin astrology and phsics ,with which they found alternate route to india through cape of good hope.

    now even sadi arabia and other muslim countries are spending huge money on education.in
    riyadh on one girls college,only building is costing them 15 billion dollars.they have made cities.taimur made samarkand,not only the most beautiful city of the world but also most advance in field of science and astronomy.
    only jews progressed in field of science and research work due to special conditions otherwise christians,u hindus or other races are more or less same.
    in india we are backward,as education ins expensive and there is no surity of job.but our contribution in handicraft bussines getting india billions of dollars.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Ram

    You have to stop justifying present day sirtuation on past things. Either do something to improve and correct, or shut up.

    We cannot go onn blaming sun that is visible only half of a day

    tajender Reply:

    You have to stop justifying present day sirtuation on past things. Either do something to improve and correct, or shut up.

    time will change everything.we are no less to others.now sons of rich jews is same like the sons of rich muslims.in india goverment has to take control of situation and make education mandatory and good.hindus has show more magnamity.anna hazare is doing
    really great job.i hope he will not have end of karkare.even after 9 years of mascare even chargesheet is not given to modi.
    we have mind ,in cricket we are showing this ,in film industry we show this in traditional bussines we show this.ias topper of this year is muslim ,my village has 2 muslim ias toppers.
    u hardly publish that rocket was invented and used by TIPU SULTAN .ur media hide this he is even
    demonized.apj abdul kalam is great scientist.

    prince chales has told publicily to church that it is time for u to accept that,MUSLIM CIVILIZATION IS BASE OF PRESENT EUROPEAN CIVILIZATION.
    U people are wasting ur time in enslaving population through mediacracy.lies and cheating.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi and Ram Autar,
    Was banning pork consumption purely Islamic idea or was it lifted from Judaism?
    What about the skullcaps? Looks like another lift from jews.
    What about calling Abraham, Moses prophet, another steal from jews?

    Islam is basically copy and paste from Jews/Christians mixed with idiotic arabic tribalism. Had persians not lost the war to Muslims, Islamic contribution to the world would have been a BIG ZERO?

    Islam is basically hijacking of others ideas, culture, contribution and material wealth.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    islam is refined form of judaism.yes.it is also revealed religion like them but more advance version.

    Islam is basically hijacking of others ideas, culture, contribution and material wealth.

    those who have nothing to offer to humanity talk iodiocy like this.rajeev u are an mentally sick idiot.parrot of chutia parivar.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    C-Type Pakistani Ram Autar,
    If Islam is so-called refined Judaism, can we call all muslims refined jews who believe in imposing their faith on others?
    Islam has nothing original. Even Kaaba is non-Islamic site occupied by Islamic thugs.

    tajender Reply:

    rajeev judaism being 4000 years is 2600 years older than islam.jews are choosen people.
    islam stands for egalitarianism.that is why they are evil people.dont love human being.just love themselves.people like are considered like cattle.whose killing donot carry any sin or punishment.

    shan Reply:

    @tejender , islam may stand for egalitarianism , but it also stands for paedophilia(marrying 13yr old)
    misogyny(it is okay to gently beat your wife if she refuses sex and use women as you would use plough in a field), inhuman (take what your left hand commands as yours ie, captured wives and slaves for sex) ignorance (earth is flat) bigotry (anyone who doesn’t beleive in allah should be exterminated)
    now every religion may have similar backwardness, but the adherents of all other religion do not scream and howl about the infalliabilty of their religion like islam does.

    Rajeev Reply:

    ISLAM = REFINED JUDAISM

    so can we say hitler killed 6 million muslims…now same muslims are killing their brothers jews in palestine..

    According to Quran, Jews are pigs, then what are muslims..refined pigs.

    RajX Reply:

    There is nothing refined about Islam or most of it’s followers. But there’s is definitely a lot of fanaticism and slavishness to everything Arab.

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    I can go and will do.

    If mud slinging is the game, then bring it on.

    ________________________________________________________

    Dalits barred entry into temple, tension in Tirupur village

    Nandhu Sundaram, TNN, Nov 24, 2010, 06.26am ISTCOIMBATORE: Tension gripped the Uthamapalayam village in Tirupur district in western Tamil Nadu after dalits were allegedly barred from entering a Hindu temple built by non-dalits.

    Behind the serene facade of Uthamapalayam, a village about 12km from Kangeyam town, a row has been simmering for the last one week between 250 dalits and 1,500 non-dalits. The trouble erupted on November 21 when the dominant community of Gounders, besides Mudaliars and Chettiars, decided to perform the kumbabhishekam of the new Mariamman temple they had built. As dalits were refused entry into the new temple, they blocked the roads and staged protests. The revenue divisional officer (RDO) called a meeting of the leaders of the different communities, but the talks failed. Prohibitory orders have been clamped in the village and police are standing guard at the temple site.

    Dalits claimed that the upper castes’ had refused to even sit along with them during the talks with the RDO. The non-dalits allegedly constructed the new temple as dalits were allowed entry into the old temple which was being administered by the HR&CE department in January 2005. The dalits alleges that the upper caste people took away the jewels of the deities and funds of the old temple to form a new Mariamman Trust and build the new temple.

    “An FIR has been filed against both parties (dalits and non-dalits) and a curfew has been imposed under section 145 of the CrPC to prevent further tension,” said revenue divisional officer (RDO) Akbar Ali.

    “The Mariamman Trust is illegal because the old temple is under the HR&CE department. There should be only one Mariamman temple for this village and both the dalits and the upper castes should be allowed to worship there,” says S Karuppiah,the convenor of the temple entry movement. But the non-dalits are unrelenting. “Who are they to say there cannot be two temples in Uthamapalayam,” asks 57-year-old V Sivasubramani, a land-owning Gounder, whose father is a temple trustee.

    The old temple, which has stood in Uthamapalayam for 600 years, meanwhile, has been abandoned by everyone in the village. “No one wants to worship there anymore. The priest never comes. He is in the control of the upper castes,” says P Muthu, a dalit labourer, who was part of the temple entry movement.

    After series of meetings to bring about peace between the two groups failed, the RDO ordered an inquiry on December 2. Non-dalits claim that the temple is on nearly two acres of patta land owned by them and, therefore, they have the right to keep dalits out. But dalits counter that the trust which owns the land is a public body and they have the right to enter the temple.

    Dalits are unable to offer worship in many temples across Tamil Nadu even 86 years after rationalist leader EV Ramasamy led a revolutionary movement to take Dalits into Hindu shrines. Dalit leaders and Left party functionaries have launched a state-wide movement to throw open the temples which are shut for the Dalits.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    HINDU FEMALES FORBIDDEN TO ENTER HINDU TEMPLES

    13 April 2011

    Females enter into Mahalaxmi temple at Kolhapur breaking tradtion that females were not allowed to enter into temple

    Females enter into Mahalaxmi temple at Kolhapur breaking tradtion that females were not allowed to enter into temple

    In India in many cities females are forbidden to enter into temple citing different reasons.

    Mahalaxmi temple is situated in Kolhapur city and from more than thousand years females are banned to enter into this temple and offer prayers.

    Mahalaxmi temple is considered as one of the six ‘Shakti Peeths’ of India.

    Today Indian females broke that tradition by forcefully entering into the Mahalaxmi temple and offered Prayers.
    The women offered prayers to goddess Ambabai.

    As per rules females were not allowed to enter into main important area of temple. In Marathi it’s called as Gabha. Females were allowed to do or offer prayers from distance only.

    The women, led by Nita Kelkar, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party’s Mahila Morcha
    entered in the temple, and crossed all the limits and tradtions and went inside the temple the important part of Temple where only males were allowed to enter and do offer prayers.

    Surprising is that rich females were allowed to enter into temples specific area where from thousand of years females were banned to enter.

    In Year 2000 against this ban a case was registered in High court with still the result is awaited.

    Now important thing is millions of Indian females should enter into the temple daily only then we can say that the tradition the age old wrong tradition is broken.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    NON-HINDUs NOT ALLOWED IN HINDU TEMPLES.

    Temple controversies just don’t seem to die in God’s own country. After Kannada actress Jayamala’s Sabrimala episode, this time attention is on playback singer K J Yesudas who is seeking a darshan at the Guruvayoor Shri Krishna temple in Communist Kerala.But there’s one stumbling block — non-Hindus are not allowed in the temple, and Yesudas is a Christian by birth.But Devaswom Minister G Sudhakaran has asked the Guruvayoor Devaswom officials to allow Yesudas to enter the temple.

    Though the temple maintains that it cannot break its tradition, the minister’s request will be tabled at a meeting between the Devaswom Board and the chief priest early next month.

    On CNN-IBN’s show India 360, K J Yesudas, grandson of head priest of Sabarimala, Rahul Easwar, National Convener, National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights, Paul Diwakar came together with host Sagarika Ghose to argue –

    Should non-Hindus be allowed to enter Hindu temples?

    Injustice to the singer

    Yesudas is a singer who has sung an immense number of Hindu devotional songs. Yet it is him who is not being allowed into Guruvayoor temple because he happens to be a Christian.

    When asked if this is severe injustice, the singer said, “I am not saying injustice or anything. For me Krishna, Christ are all the same. I sing Muslim songs also. My father taught me that you are a singer; you should be like a free bird. That is the advice I have stuck to all my life.”

    Does that mean that the move by the Devasom board to get him entry is a genuine attempt to reform the temple or is it just a political move?

    “I don’t care if it is political or genuine. That is their business. I will go to Mecca also if I am allowed to. If they don’t allow me I don’t care,” Yesudas said.

    Like Sabarimala?

    Though the Constitution of India forbids discrimination on the basis of caste, creed, religion and gender, Sabarimala kept out women and Guruvayoor keeps out non-Hindus.

    Should the Constitution of India be rejected by Kerala’s Hindu temples? Isn’t it flying against the tenets of modernity to keep a non-Hindu out?

    “No. Even the Constitution upholds the right of the supreme priest to decide the rituals. And it is very tough to decide who a Hindu is,” Rahul Easwar said.

    “It is pseudo-modernism, fashionable thing to do. But the larger question is why allow only Yesudas and not other Christian devotees too?” he asked.

    Temple entry movement was a cause dear to the heart of Ambedkar. The Dalits have long campaigned for entry into temples. Is it one of the failing of Hindu religion that it has in fact exclusionary.

    Religion and caste

    The panel was also asked if it was the caste background of Yesudas that is reason why Guruvayoor is keeping him out.

    “Religion is not as much of a problem as is caste. The issue would have been different had it been from a different religion and caste background,” Paul Diwakar said.

    He added that the concept of keeping Dalits out is where the religious and socio-economic fundamentalism is coming out against them.

    Does that mean that there is need for the temples to come in sync with modern times?

    “It’s basic human rights. A study done by us shows that 63 per cent of temples prohibit Scheduled Castes and Dalits,“ Diwakar said.

    Meanwhile, Rahul Easwar agreed that a person of any religion could be allowed to enter temples on a condition they give it in writing that they really worship the temple rituals and idol worship.

    “A temple is not a tourist place where any and everybody can come and go,” he said.

    Anti-human rights

    Is Yesudas is allowed entry into Guruvayoor, would that freedom is given to the common citizens or only to VIPs?

    “Let them first decide whether they want to allow me or not. We will look at that issue then. That question is for later,” Yesudas said.

    “A new day will come. The sun will rise when I will be allowed to go inside the temple without any hassles. Lets wait for that day,” the singer added.

    When asked what is the symbolic value of temple entry, Paul Diwakar said it is question of being connected to the whole universe, and temples offer these connections.

    “Why should any believing SC or any woman be kept out of temples?” Diwakar quipped.

    He added that it was really archaic that a country moving towards globalisation and progressing economically was still hanging to anti-human beliefs.

    Interfering with tradition

    But Rahul pointed out that there were many temples in Kerala that only allow women. Sabarimala also for that matter allows people from all caste and creed.

    “It’s a sad thing that the media criticises all things that are old only to appear fashionable. It’s actually pseudo modernism,” Rahul said.

    He added that just like something that is going on for centuries, may not be right. Similarly something that is going on for centuries may not be wrong either.

    However, Diwakar said it was high time we respected the Constitution.

    “There was hue and a cry when a few hundred Dalits entered the Jagannath Puri temple recently. Now they are trying to cleanse the premises,” Diwakar said.

    He added that this was crime, and these crimes need to be punished.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Paul diwakar is full of sh– when he talks about kerala temples o r Dalits.

    Jesudas guru was a Brahmin, Chembai vaidynatha Bhgwatar. Guru and Shishya performed several times in front of guruvayoor temple, because temple rules did not allow non-Hindus to enter. What is wrong with a Hindu temple not allowing non-Hindu to enter temple? All Keralites – Hindus, Christians, Muslims- accept Jesudas as their own; Hindus throing to buy his bhajans on Guruvayoorappan and Ayyappan.

    Jesudas doe sthe “vidyarambh” initiation every year in the famous Mookambika temple in kollur (a temple consecrated by Aadi Sankara). Mookambika is more famous and “more Hindu” than Guruvayoor. Each temple has its rules. You cannot wear pants in Guruvayoor; they will take you out and ask you to wear dhotu. So also choodidars.

    Sabarimalai does not allow women after puberty and during child bearing age. It is a rule of the temple. That temple has a “Muslim God” too. Jose Cherian, the transpotrtation minister in the current state cabinet, a Christian, did the annual pilgrimage there this year.

    In many temples of Kerala, men has to remove shirts in the inner sanctum sanctorums.

    No temple in Kerala disallow a Hindu because o f his caste (there may be some obscure private temples)

    The MArxist and Congress govts of the state has made tons of money that they diverted to their pet causes (or stole) from the temples. Rich temples like Sabarimalai and Guruvayoor are run by Devaswom Boards who control the intake, the properties. The state governmemnt, nor the central govt has the guts to take over Churches or mosques administration

    That is secularism for you

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Gopi

    It seems you may have picked just one starnd of this discourse.

    What is wrong with Hindus not allowing non-Hindus into a Hindu temple ? The very same as is wrong with the Saudi religious establishment controlling entry to Mecca.

    If there is nothing wrong with one, then by the same token there is nothing wrong with the other.

    Like 1000s non-hindus enjoy Ysudas’s bhajans, then 1000s also enjoy Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan’s Qwalis, and/or Handles Messiah.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I do not have an issue with Saudi religious establishment promulgating rules for Mecca. However, i do have problems if Saudi Government promulgates rules for mecca, also if they do not allow other people to pursue construction of their worshipping sites and their way of worshipping.

    Even in this, there is a contrast – Guruvayoor Temple rules are not prescrivbed by any religious authority, it is by the temple committee – So, it is not a grand Mufti order.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Gopi

    I know you are a linguist and are able to distinguish between “religious authority” and “Temple Committee”, I hope you will not mind if I treat the two as being the same. I is a pea brain as you well know.

    I will not buy into this argument that what we do to stop our own people from entering our temples is eminently understandable, but what they do is some how not.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    What is “our” temple? For me it is our, as it is Indias, not from a religious denomination perspective.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Gopi

    Not sure what that means.

    I think we are finessing an argument, which in effect is inconsequential to those who are forbidden to enter either of the establishments.

    The effect remains the same irrespective of who makes the order and who then executes it.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi,
    The non-hindus are not allowed into HINDU TEMPLES…but here we are talking about why non-muslims are not allowed to enter CITY OF MECCA? I can understand if Kaaba is out of limits for non-muslims but what about the CITY OF MECCA?

    You are expert in fabricating lies…your defense of muslims in this case exposes you once again.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    @Rajeev- I have no desire to enter Mecca. I have no interest in whether Saudis allow temples to be built there.
    Mera bhaarat mahaan, I have no wish to be compared to a mad mulla country called Saudi. I would much rather secular India had something in common with the best of what happens in Europe or USA (and hopefully not the worst as I see here in UK- alcoholism, promiscuity and family breakdowns in 45%).
    So Pl do not obsess with Saudi.
    Same for sabarimala, Indian women are not suffering if they cannot enter. Plenty of other temples, and the best one in your own heart

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    These are my sentiments as well.

    Mala Kahe Hai Kaath ki, Tu kyo phere moye.
    Man ka manka pher de, turant mila du toye.

    tajender Reply:

    mr shan

    u are right ,but who has not done this.but they left persian language intact.nowrz is still their new year.upto 16th century arabic was language of science and technology and modernity.the place which english has now.
    arabs gave their system which local accepted and carrying even now though occupiers left long ago.like in egypt and sudan.
    regarding wife beating instruction is right.but with change of time ,wives are beating husband moreover it is better than killing or leaving them in brindavan(up)to die.annie beasant has written
    that ,her husband used to take all her earning,as per evangical teaching,woman cannot own anything.

    shan Reply:

    @tejender are you aware ARABS did not have a SCRIPT, it is derived from the IRANIAN SCRIPT, they did have a language which is aramaic allied to semitic language.

    tajender Reply:

    aramaic allied to semitic language.
    aramic language was local language in palestine and syria it was mother tongue of jesus christ.
    regarding script may be,they have orrowed lot of words from other languages like english.but has effected many many languages in the world including bengali and marathi.
    language itself is perfect.
    ]

    The influence of Arabic has been most important in Islamic countries. Arabic is an important source of vocabulary for languages such as Baluchi, Bengali, Berber, Catalan, Gujarati, Hebrew, Hindustani, Indonesian, Kurdish, Malay, Marathi, Pashto, Persian, Portuguese, Punjabi, Rohingya, Sindhi, Somali, Spanish, Swahili, Tagalog, Turkish and Urdu as well as other languages in countries where these languages are spoken. For example, the Arabic word for book (كتاب kitāb) has been borrowed in all the languages listed, with the exception of Spanish, Catalan and Portuguese which use the Latin-derived words “libro”, “llibre” and “livro”, respectively, Tagalog which uses “aklat”, Hebrew which uses “sefer”, Gujarati which uses “chopdi” and Bengali which uses “boi”.

    In addition, English has many Arabic loan words, some directly but most through the medium of other Mediterranean languages. Examples of such words include admiral, adobe, alchemy, alcohol, algebra, algorithm, alkaline, almanac, amber, arsenal, assassin, banana, candy, carat, cipher, coffee, cotton, hazard, jar, jasmine, lemon, loofah, magazine, mattress, sherbet, sofa, sugar, sumac, tariff and many other words. Other languages such as Maltese[8] and Kinubi derive from Arabic, rather than merely borrowing vocabulary or grammar rules.

    Compared with other Semitic language systems, Classical Arabic is distinguished by, “its almost (too perfect) algebraic-looking grammar, i.e. root pattern and morphology.”[21][22][peacock term] Nouns in Literary Arabic have three grammatical cases (nominative, accusative, and genitive [also used when the noun is governed by a preposition]); three numbers (singular, dual and plural); two genders (masculine and feminine); and three “states” (indefinite, definite, and construct). The cases of singular nouns (other than those that end in long ā) are indicated by suffixed short vowels (/-u/ for nominative, /-a/ for accusative, /-i/ for genitive.

    Some Muslims present a monogenesis of languages and claim that the Arabic language was the language revealed by God for the benefit of mankind and the original language as a prototype symbolic system of communication (based primarily upon its system of triconsonantal roots ) spoken by man from which all other languages were derived, having first been corrupted.[10][11] Statements spread in later centuries regarding the Arabic language being the language of Paradise are not considered authentic according to the scholars of Hadith and are widely discredited

    Rajeev Reply:

    Dr.Sharma,
    Sadhu..Sadhu..You are a great saint. You don’t want to enter Mecca but I want to.
    If muslims are allowed in non-muslim holy CITIES, we too have right to enter their holy cities.

    As far as mera bharat mahaan is concerned, less said the better.

    tajender Reply:

    as per supreme court of india hinduism is not religion.

    Rajeev Reply:

    As per modern understanding of religion, Islam is terrorism packaged as religion.

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    I think we have contextualised the issue of non-Muslims not allowed to enter Mecca.

    I have lots more, and the Moogle Search engine is very easy to use.

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Pakistani Ravi-

    So, what is your point? Are you saying that Dalits should do suicide bombing like you guys do in Ahmadiya, Sufi, Shia temples in Pakistan? And kill as many during the prayer time (the yield will be much lower, I understand Hindus do not have special Friday or Sunday; many of them do not even go to temples, even if they go it is drips and drabs except in major annual festivals … may be Dalits should choose to explode then.like on a ganesh chathurthi day in a ganesh temple …

    Get a life man..

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Raju sorry, I will address your point when you make one, till then rest assured that my life is grand.

    If you wish to festoon in your Islam phobic putrid rants then be my guest. You may be satisfied with that, pardon me if I am not.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    as per supreme court hinduism is not religion.

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    Mandir aur Masjid Ka Jhgrda mitaya jaye
    Beech mein dono ke ik mehkhana banaya jaye

    अजनबी शहर के अजनबी रास्ते,
    मेरी तन्हाई पर मुस्कुराते रहे,
    मैं बहुत देर तक यूं ही चलता रहा,
    तुम बहुत देर तक याद आते रहे,

    ज़हर मिलता रहा ज़हर पीते रहे,
    रोज़ मरते रहे रोज़ जीते रहे,
    ज़िंदगी हमें आज़माती रही,
    और हम भी उसे आज़माते रहे,

    ज़खम जब भी कोई ज़हन्-ओ-दिल पर लगा,
    ज़िंदगी की तरफ इक दरीचा खुला,
    हम भी गोया किसी साज़ के तार हैं,
    चोट खाते रहे, गुनगुनाते रहे,

    कल कुछ ऐसा हुआ मैं बहुत थक गया,
    इसलिये सुन के भी अनसुनी कर गया,
    कितनी यादों के भटके हुए कारवां,
    दिल के ज़ख्मों के दर खटखटाते रहे…!!!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    BAKWAAS…Youth Congress terrorist.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @gopi thomas, sorry to throw the spanner in your works. There is a paper distributed free to london commuters.It is called THE INDIAN POST issue no 037april21st.page 18, the news
    DALIT OFFICER’S CAR CLEANSED WITH COW DUNG ON RETIREMENT
    Thiruvanthapurum:Kerala is a state known for its high literacy rate and social awareness and so when a senior dalit government officer found cow-dung sprinkled over his furniture and even inside his car , reportedlly as a part of ‘cleansing ritual’ on retirement it was shocking for many . 55yr old AV Ramakrishnan hs petitioned kerala Human Rights Commission .In his complaint he said the ‘cleansing’ was done as he was a Dalit and demanded strict action against the perpetrators.
    Have a nice weekend after all this is easter weekend , all shops are open in uk .

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Well, of all the Dalit officers in the state, and of many retiring, one has been subject to miscreants, supposedly ‘high caste” guys’ discriminatory type attack.

    They should be investigated and prosecuted.

    But there may be more than what is reported.

    Chief Minister Achuthanandan belongs to a backward caste, and I am sure he will get to the bottom of this.

    Let us not take one incident (one is too many) reported in the newspapers as a yardstick. The rumour is that there is more to the story.

    By the way , nobody in Kerala uses the term “Dalit” — Haaijan or “pulayar” is the common term used,

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I think it was Tamil Nadu the land of rationalists not Kerala.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    To all the dark ignorant minds
    MEN NEVER DO EVIL SO COMPLETELY AND CHEERFULLY AS WHEN THEY DO IT OUT OF RELIGIOUS CONVICTION ——-Blaise PASCAL

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    That is true. At the same time men has done wonderful long lasting things out of sense of righteous work born out of religious conviction.

    Mother Theresa, to some extent Mahathma Gandhi, Martin Luther King jr etc are examples of the good sides of religious conviction.

    You may be right that the majority fall in the “bad” category.

    BTW isnt this blog supposed to be about financial corruption and Anna Hazare?

    [Reply]

  • ISI Agent & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    To all the slightly enlightened minds
    WHEN YOU WANT, MEN TO DO DIABOLICALLY EVIL DEEDS THEN TELL THEM THEY ARE DOING IT FOR THE GLORY OF THEIR RELIGION—–Pakistani Ravi & SHAN’s KUTTAR

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Pakiistani Ravi -

    Fortunately in todays world only one group (yours) do the violence in the name of religion, God, 73 virgins, the other life, Allah etc etc.. I hope it remains that way and not spread.

    (please do not bring the crusades, or the Hindu killings of Jains during your favourite times)

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    You are a pathetic sad IslamoPhobi, whose power of reasoning is equivalent to that of an reactionary amoeba.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Well, the pot calling kettle bvlack

    You pakistanis vent out your frustrations here!

    Improve your country..Get rid of all those alphabet soups enmerging as terrorists every day – Let, JeH, AbC,

    And are u ok with the blasphemy law?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi and Ram Autar are non-muslimphobic whose power of reasoning is same as idiot Mohammad.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Rajeev – do not stoop to Ram’s level. let him ridicule elephant faced God and snake faced God etc.. Dont bring down the Prophet; it will hurt reasonable people.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Binoy,
    I am not bound by the law that I should respect MOHAMMAD. I thought this kind of binding law was applicable for captured people called non-arab muslims.
    I have right to question Mohammad as a person because he doesn’t fit normal definition of holy man.

    tajender Reply:

    Fortunately in todays world only one group (yours) do the violence in the name of religion, God, 73 virgins, the other life, Allah etc etc.. I hope it remains that way and not spread

    where tell me .

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Dear iASK, you change names as often as a normal man changes clothes :-D :-D
    So, should we call you PRSK now? ;-)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ashish,
    He has been ardent supporter of OSama and has supported Al-Qaeda terror.
    He should be called OSAMA-LOVER.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Ashish.

    You can call me anything.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    How about “arabized idiot”? That title fits you and your ilk well.

  • shan

    @shoebK , this blog was SUPPOSED to be about corruption in India , but got derailed by IASK, and internet hindus .discussing the relative proportion of social and religious exclusion in respective religions and the greatness of their respective religions.
    as i have reiterated so many times INDIANS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CORRUPTION DONT LIKE TO ACT ON IT.Also the people entrusted with tackling corruption are SPINELESS. This alleged tape of 2sec purporting to link santi bhushan with influencing judge if true is an open and shut case. haul shanti bhushan in front of the CBI , ask him to explain , if he says it wasa silly comment BOOK HIM FOR CONTEMPT OF CORRUPT.
    Also one can not just SLANDER by labelling them corrupt . YOU NEED TO PROVE. Just ask them to explain their earning and property,if they cant book them. I think our investigating agency is C R A P.they are only interested in MEDIA CIRCUS. just watched NOBODY KILLED JESSICA, most likely everything shown is true .if that is so then newdelhi is a bannana capital . apparently the officer in the forensic lab , a punjabi, TANDON (name changed) {but which other community} SUBSTITUTED one bullet with another bullet from a different revolver. MERA BHARAT MAHAN.Can’t think what lokpalbill do when there is BHOOT IN THE SARSO.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    This blog is not about corruption but ZIA’s islamic perception of this anti-corruption movement.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    @ Ravi- isi- in a childish innocent way, you absolve the Pakistani society of all blame by shifting the focus onto its leaders – ‘..Pakistan was a civilised society, however, no one, not even a civilised society can protect itself from an ego maniacal charismatic leader. In this case Zulfiqar Ali Bhuto…’

    Hitler did not mesmerise the entire German race by snapping his fingers and get them to murder 6 million Jews. Virulent anti- Semitism has existed in Germany for long before that.

    Similarly, Bhutto is not Rev Jones who commanded his flock to mass suicide. The hatred of the other- hindu, christian and the jew- is so deeply embedded in radical islam or Pakistan, that Zulfiqar simply tapped into what was available.

    Today when one talks of failed and dangerous states, Pakistan is up there with Somalia and Yemen

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    christian and the jew- is so deeply embedded in radical islam or Pakistan

    this is wrong please make more study.

    that Zulfiqar simply tapped into what was available.

    bhutto was anti-indian can say anti-hindu(i am not sure)because his mother was hindu and remained ,she used call him hari till her death.she was very badly treated by hindu sindhi society of karachi.she was insulted and outcaste ignored and humiliated.he started his wakalat
    under a senior hindu vakil remained under him.but insult of his mother hindu civil society had some feeling against them.

    regarding christians,things are other way around.though thousands of christians are writing bad about our prophet.have u seen any muslim writing bad about jesus.today around 2 crore christian christians living in muslim countries and are economically and socially more powerful than common muslim.

    jews……we have very good history of living together with jews.whenever christians persecuate them,they got shelter in muslim countries like turkey and spain.when zoinist were descending in middle east ,nearly every jew of palestine gave memorendum to gen balfour (governor of palestine and irish jew)to stop their entry.these memorendum are available in archives.even now arab jews are more close to palestanian than zoinist ashknazis.

    in india also during muslim era brhmn and rajput were their main ally.they never interferred in their internal affairs.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @tejender , are you serious , zulfi bhutto’s mother a hindu , he was called HARI , that is blasphemy. i had read Bibi’s autobiography(benazir) she says six generation ago they were KAYASTH.
    now Zulfi studied in Bombay and Piloo modi was his best friend , his mate.I think Modi wrote a book on him zulfi my friend.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    she was a gujrati dancer from parel,bombay,sir shahnawaz bhutto,prime minister of junagarh fell in love with her married her she came karachi with his brother.she remained hindu till end few years before death she was almost forcibly converted to islam,to solve property dispute.she called him hari till death.because of very inhuman treatment with his mother by sindh community of karachi.he turned anti-indian.may she was telling this about her patternal ancestor.as bhutto looked kayasth and bibi looked gujrati.if u see closely.
    blasphemy…..jab pyar kiya to darna kya.

    shan Reply:

    @tejender , spot on and it all makes sense now. in patrick french’s book there is a harrowing description of the hanging of bhutto.The military people took photographs of his GENITALS , “because there was a rumour that he may not be a true muslim”

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    Very happy to discuss this.

    If I cam across as some who is absolving any one of anything then that is due to my poor writing skills than my thought process.

    As far as anti-Semitism is concerned it existed from the 1st Century AD, so no dispute there. It still exists both in Germany and in the U.K., but it took Hitler to galvanise this latent hatred into actionable genocide. In that respect I dis-agree with you. Hitler DID mesmerise the entire Germanic Race – barring the Resistance – further more he managed to charm, Sir Oswald Mosley, one of the Mitford sisters and Edward the VIII.

    True that Zulfi did not lead his flock to mass suicide, but then when was there ever a mass suicide. The fact that West Pakistan could become dominated by Bengalis was reason enough for oppression and civil war.

    I notice you state that Pakistan is a failed state, not quite sure why this has crept in, I agree it is a failing state and have never suggested otherwise.

    However, I sense that you, a highly educated man is under this mis-aprehension that I am a Pakistani. Allow me to disabuse of that or else you are no better than Rajeev – I am realy Ravi and not a Pakistan – though Dil ke behlane ko Ghalib yeh khayal acha hai.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Panditji , so attached to hos red wine , perhaps sees red of prejudice everywhere. It s not true there was always anti semitism in germany.anti semitism was there for the fifty years preceeding hitler. jews were well asssimilated in german society. they were in every facet of german life and culture. The bankers were german , the finance minister in weimar republic who was killed by the extreme right was a jew. ENGLAND HAS A FAR MORE DEEP HISTORY OF ANTISEMITISM, for the whole concept of germany is a pretty recent thing. during the reign of Edward the whatever , each and every jew was slaughtered. those who remained either converted or were practising their religion in secret “the crypto jews”. Jews were readmitted during the reign of ?charles the second.Oxford and cambridge did not admit any JEWS ONLY FIFTY YEARS BACK or may be slightly more.
    The hatred in pakistan towards the hindus is due to the thought at the back of their mind that they were pushed out of hinduism by the “raw sewage of hell” caste’s oppression, of which panditji is an example. SAME DYNAMICS WORKS IN KASHMIR, though now there is a greater influence of pan islamism or rather the reaction of a defeated inferiority complex ridden adherents of that religion.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan muslims hate americans and british.goverment in pakistan hate india not hinduus,as they are interfering in their matter(one shukla was caught for firing at sree lanka team)he is in pak jail.in balochistan and frontier also many raw agents are caught helping seccionists.
    but there is no feeling against hindus.otherwise they could not have lived over there.

  • tajender

    GOPI IS IT WRONG,

    The idea was presenting was that the Mophlah revolt is seen by Malabaris as a follow-up to the 1857 uprising.

    I understand that this is how it is seen in Kerala. I have told you that the Kerala government was giving freedom fighter privileges (pensions, train passes etc.) to those who took part in the Mophlah rebellion, in addition to those they gave to the people who took part in the freedom movement at the national level.

    I say also that I say the revolt led to a reduction in landlordism and the power of the Brahmins and Nairs. This in my opinion was a good achievement.

    Another thing you can learn from the Mophlah riots is that if you mess with Muslims, they will hammer you. They don’t care if you are British or an upper caste. If you cross a limit, they will come after you. Then you cry afterwards that Annie Besant or someone else said this or that.

    During the British rule, the people who fought them were the Muslims. First was Tipu Sultan. Then there was 1857 which was led by the Muslims. Then the Moplah revolt was another example.

    The British regarded the Hindus as shifty and effeminate, but they knew the Muslims could fight and throw them out. So they always used the Hindus as a shield.

    So if the people of Kerala (who are 51% Hindu) see the Mophlah revolt in the same manner as 1857, who are you to say otherwise ? It is the habit of RSS Hindus to give everything a communal twist, and create self pity by claiming harmless Hindus were killed, so that anti-national Hindus can continue rioting in 2009 all through the country.

    During the Vajpayee government, RSS and BJP Hindu leaders used to flock to Kerala many times to see if they could create a communal incident and win a seat. It bugged them that the BJP could not win a single seat in Kerala.

    Finally, when they started getting out of hand, the Kerala government banned Togadia from entering the state to spread his Gujarati cancer.

    You are using the Mophlah revolt to explain Hindu Terrorism.

    The first incident took place when the British were in control, the Gujarat episode took place when India is ruled by Indians. We can see that the Hindus are worse than the British when it comes to ruling India.

    I say the British left something of value despite everything, but the Hindus seem to be incompetent. They can only win an election by arraning a Hindu-Muslim riot.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ram -

    Mopla Riot was the “almost culmination” of the Khilafet movement. Ali Muslyar of Tirur proclaimed himself as Caliph’s representative in Malabar, that the country is taken over by Delhi Sultanate, and that British are gone being defeated by the sultanate. Stupid Muslims believed that and thus a rampage started, exactly one hundred years after Tipu Sultan did a similar Malabar “padayottam” in which he destroyed temples, looted properties, converted non-Muslims etc etc –the usual;. BTW, in all of India’s history, the only time Christian churches were razed and Christians were converted into Muslims was during this “padayottam” ( padayottam means rapid fight/invasion) of tipu sultan.

    There was nothing patriotic about the mopla riot unless you call raping of higher caste women a divine patriotic thing (why not have 72 virgins in this world?)

    Kerala Government /politicians has done several things to appease the muslim vote bank – first and foremost, granting the first Muslim district in india , Malappuram. Malappuram was carved out exclusively to please Muslims–although Marxist govt did it during EMS Namboodiripad’s ministry in 1960s, it was a wrong bargain for Marxists because a s you know Muslims will not vote for Godless communists. But both parties continue/d to appease them — both parties say BJP is communal but Muslim League is not! Branding Mopla Riot as agrarian revolution was a master stroke of the politicians. Banning “duravastha” ,a poetry , in college curriculum was an insult to all Malayalis – Hindus, christians, Msulims – . “Duravastha” was written by a “maha kavi” great poet, Kumaran Asan, who lived during the mopla riots, about a real life incident of rape and conversion that happened. , Yes, in secular India, in literally advanced Kerala state, a poem t – writen not by a high caste poet – is banned because some Muslims persuaded the government that the teaching of the realities of what happened will trigger new communal violence.

    These “napumsakh” govts will declare anybody as a freedom fighter and give freedom fighter pensions. Listen man, in Kerala high school youth festival competitions, Muslims wanted Arabic elocution and poetry competiotion included as competition items. hey were granted by the education department. There is no Sanskrit, or any other Indian language other than HHindi and Malayalam. Figure out.

    Oh, by the way google for Ramasimhan case. How some Muslims and Mullahs killed Ramasimhan, his brother Daya Simhan, Daya’s’ wife Kamala Antharjanam (antharjanam is a sur name of Namboodiri women), and Daya’s two children, and their cook Raju Iyer. Ramasimhans children Fateh and Dara singhs (he wanted to bring them up as Sikhs) escaped because they were in their grandparents house. The killings happened one week before India got independence. And the only reason for killing them was because they reconverted into Hinduism from Islam (which their families were forcefully converted to during Mopla riots). and Once again our secular govt let the murderes go scot free after dceades of court proceedings because they were afraid communal flare ups will happen.

    Kerala has almost as much Christians (slightly less) as Muslims. There has never been any Hindu-Christian flareupss where people got killed . And there was never any Muslim/Hindu flareups till Tipu Sultan. (one cannot say Hindu Msulim flareups, it was Muslims killing Hindus always)–ditto during Mopla Riot — and in recent history, Marad murders of ten years ago, .

    Ram, revisionist historians like Romilla Thaper wants to sugar coat everything Oh they did it because the others did that… Oh Aurangazeb attacked Kashi Vishwanatha temple because the princess was kept there by the priests.. Oh Somnath was attacked only six times instead of 7 and that too because the priests and kings stole gold from nearby villages and kept them in the temple.. Tipu Sultan had to convert Malabar Hindus to Muslims because all invading emperors do that..

    And Ram, neithr RSs nor BJP had any base in kerala, not even a panchayath president. But the speculation is that they will get 2-4 assembly seats in this election. And if they get, the only ones that are to be blamed is the Muslims. The involvement of local Muslims in Kashmir, the training of local Muslims in Pakistan, the involvement of Madani in recruiting and training, the revealing of “hand chopping” courts, the Saudi connection , arrest of nazir as the South IndiaLeT leaderetc – all have unfortunately made people to question Muslim loyalty. They have used this fear as a weapon, and some people will fall for the BJP politicians who are more than ready to exploit these. Kerala and Tamil Nadu are the only two southern states where BJP has not been able to make any inroads. Muslim behaviour will make sure they establish a beachhead.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    gopi u are rss man not christian why u lie.
    moplah rebellion started against britishers not against hindus,when british soldiers received extra troops nair policemen started attacking rebels.then it was between nairs and rebels.initially rebels suffered and flee.later when rebellion was suppressed thousands of nuslims were murdered.

    Oh Aurangazeb attacked Kashi Vishwanatha temple

    hate is ur duty and lie is ur staple food.wives of rajput soldiers went to temple for worshipping
    pujaris ther took them to basement gave them some drug made then uncounscious.looted
    their jewellary and cash.
    rajput soldier demolished the temple in rage.it is aurangzeb who ordered the construction of
    vishwanath temple along with gyanvaapi mosque,side by side.
    somnath was looted not attacked because of gold with the help of competing priests.so what is new in it.peshwas of poona always looted shankaracharya temple whenever in need of money.now libiya is attacked by france for same purpose.

    u hindus are hater by birth rss or bjp are on our foot.these aryan came to india we are original
    we dont want ur certificate to be clean or good.all bullshit u have written above is lie.i know ur courage or history.now u are cleaning the shoes of shudra mayawati.before yhat u were the
    as..s lickers ,boot polishers or **** suckers of british empire.before that u were offering ur women to muslim rulers of india.actuall became strong during mughal empire.diched them
    when things start becoming bad.now u are looting india through corporates.

    this ramsinham was acheat.he converted to islam,made tipu his brother ,to save his state.reconverted when british became strong for same purpose.he was liar cheater why he was killed who killed i dont know.but i will not accept ur rss version of history.murder like this usually happen.it is not of any historical importance.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I fail the understand why Ravi and Ram Autar are not able to answer-
    Why non-muslims are not allowed to enter MECCA CITY?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    i told u reason is security.many attempt were made to destroy this.i hope this is last time u are asking this question.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    LIE…If that is the case why is entry of muslims not banned in non-muslim holy cities. You are the ones who are attempting to destroy everything.

    Don’t give me BS islamic answers. Give the real reason behind the ban.

    Last time Kaaba was attacked, it was muslims who did it so you should be banning muslims from entering Mecca.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    no other city in the world has so much history.all other cities including vatican is not historical.its land was occupied through fraud.

    last time some khomeini suppoirter took shelter there thinking that saudi goverment will negotiate with them ,but saudi goverment killed them all.

    Don’t give me BS islamic answers. Give the real reason behind the ban.

    why should i awnser ur stupid questions i keep u on my foot.u are stupid donkey.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pl. give us answer from ISLAMIC sources…We need some jokes here..

    RajX Reply:

    Which nonmuslim cares about Mecca? I don’t have a problem with the rule which prevents nonmuslims to enter Mecca. Maybe they don’t want to turn it into a tourist attraction.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mo-Autar,
    It was your maniac prophet Mohammad who banned entry of non-muslims into mecca because he was very insecure about his false faith.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca
    He (MOHAMMAD) also declared that no non-Muslim would be allowed inside the city so as to protect it from the influence of polytheism and similar practices. Then, Muhammad returned to Medina, after assigning Akib ibn Usaid as governor of the city. His other activities in Arabia led to the unification of the peninsula.[16][23]

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    gopi u were talking about nairs,is it wrong,

    The Arya religion Hindu system is build on Chathurvarnya; it comes by birth, no one can change it.Higher casts never allows non hindus to mingle or to come closer to them,all their services done by their in class servants Soodras,different diversity of soodras done different services and they also become sub classes.In Kerala Nairs are the fourth cast Soodras, their sub casts had done all the services for the three upper class; like washing,cooking,nurturing of children,building construction,military,carpenter work etc., and upper cast had a right on Nair women to use for their will whether they are married or not; while this ‘bedrooming’ they arranged all their properties. gradually they become rich and powerful,Nair women were not allowed to ware dress more than a dhothi like cloth below waist,she owe to show her breast out. The powerful Nairs implemented this type of uncultured lows upon the Hinduaised Dhravidas like Eezhavas etc,.with permission of their masters; after a long period when the revolution movements become strong they got audacity to speek against it. New generation Nairs don’t know why their names are written with their mother’s name and why not the father’s name.
    if they are part of Hindu religion they should obey the rules even now,or they have to say that they are not Hindus.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What about caste system in Islam?
    Ashrafs – Progeny of invaders.
    Ajlafs – High caste hindu converts
    Arjal – Low caste hindu converts.

    Ashrafs never marry ajlafs and Arjals..why?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    these classifications are condemned in islam.while glorified in judaism.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    LIE…AGAIN..
    Syed are considered to be purest. Infact QURAN commands all muslim slaves to bow before Tribe of Mohammad..

  • http://- Rajeev

    As muslims are refined jews, can we also say that muslims killed JESUS?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    u can say any bullshit u want.because u r mad.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Rajeev, this should make you happy. After islam conquered iran , they erased all traces of persian civilization. All the name were arabised. Only after SHAH ABBAS , old persian names were being adopted like JAMSHED, NAWROJ etc(Source an iranian doctor in uk). As you know iranians love saudis like america loves binladen.
    Another arab kartuben
    When arabs conquered NORTH AFRICA , the place was verdant , lush green. The arabs hated this scenary.
    They neglected the land. Slowly but surely it turned into a desert ,which is what they wanted FOR THAT MADE THEM FEEL AT HOME.
    and as you know the prophet himself ERASED all traces of history from living memory all that was present of preprophet arabia and consigned it as Jahilia.There is no parallel of such vandalism in history.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    you know the word assassin also came from old islam — because one ruler, one family, will send assassins to kill the other..

    violent group with no sense or love of beauty…preservation at any cost… history dumped them in the dustbin

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    assassin is actually hashassin.suicde bombers used to drink hashish before mission and enjoy.yes this has come from syria.follower of of old man(religious)used to carry out ths.one of them attacked salahuddin ayoubi after waiting 27 years.
    but voilence took place everywhere u read history of europe and treatment of europeans with
    locals of americas newzealand latin america and australia.our record is the best.we entered india because we were powerful but we used our power to built india not eliminate local population like west has done to locals of europe and other countries.this is because of islam.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    When arabs conquered NORTH AFRICA , the place was verdant , lush green. The arabs hated this scenary

    shan before writing hatred always check.india was made green during muslim rule.they brought irrigatin systen from spain.egypt was desert from thousands of year sudan became greener under them.before moghul rule there was no canal or irrigation system in india.land used to be in name of temples.moghuls distributed land with its ownership to indians.
    being bihari u should know the history of bhumohars.touching the land is sin under brhmnsm.
    city of alhamra had 59 park in spain.
    even now most of gulf states have open budget for greenary.muslim flag is green.they are builting hundreds of modern and beautiful parks.
    baber preffered to be buried in a garden in kabul.moghul gardens were everywhere in india.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    How right you are.

    Rizwan Reply:

    mishraji, when I was at college, this was the kind of shit that was sometoimes thrown at me in cafe, usually well meaning but very irritating- of but Saudi does this, Pak la la land does that etc etc- cos I am a muslim
    your words were brilliant dude- ” @Rajeev- I have no desire to enter Mecca. I have no interest in whether Saudis allow temples to be built there. Mera bhaarat mahaan, I have no wish to be compared to a mad mulla country called Saudi. ”
    I needed u in that cafe years ago man !!!! nOW EITHER U ACCEPT THAT I AM A MODERN INDIAN MUSLIM, and if u accept that then why this ‘deoband says that, jinnah says that shit allatime- nuffin to do wit me, geddit ????

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Rizwan -
    absolutely right. There are “illiterates” everywhere. You are an inheritor of India; it is yours, and uyour postrity as much as for anybody elses.

    Make it better ; get inspiration from its glorious past, create a beautiful future – You are well positioned to create jobs, improve livelihoods. Make profits, expand, employ, improve communities,

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Rizwan

    I can understand what you may have felt.

    Binoy, I agree with you.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ravi-

    Thanks

    Rajeev Reply:

    I wish you guys a very happy easter…Sorry refined jews i.e. muslims killed Jesus who rose again…

    tajender Reply:

    islam came 600 years after he was cruxified.neverth we dont celebrate easter.dont forget what britishers have done to bharat mata.

    Rajeev Reply:

    But you said you were jews so you are the killers of Jesus.

    shan Reply:

    @Tejender,You are confusing MUSLIMS FROM ALL OTHER NATIONALITY with the PUREST, THE ARABS, they are a breed apart.The spanish example is that of BERBERS of north africa. IRRIGATION CANAL is 100% borrowed from ROMANS , ever seen a aqua duct , there is still some in uk from Roman Britain.
    India didnot need canals , himalayas and its rivers and extreemely fertile soil and abundant rain fall in the plains made sure IT EXPORTED SO MUCH TO ROME , THAT IT MADE ROMAN HISTORIAN COMPLAIN
    india is depleting rome every year of several thousand roman coins.

    tajender Reply:

    in india this concept was brought by moghul rulers.which helped in irrigation sysytem.wheels
    or rahat also came from that area.india needed canal and rahat .himalayan rivers has effect in its surroundings.rajputana the area which was not under moghuls still dont have water.even sikar has no water.

    tajender Reply:

    berbers were rulers but most of philosopher scientists astronomers are of arab origin.

    tajender Reply:

    sorry rulers were arabs from damascus had berber support.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Are you saying that he is right that Arabs were the greatest? And is that the reason your fellow
    brothers in pakistan claiming an Arab ancestry?

    tajender Reply:

    pakistanis dont claim arab ancestry.who told u they are proud punjabi pathan or sindhi.some of them might be having arab ancestry,

    Are you saying that he is right that Arabs were the greatest

    yes sometime they were greatest because of their achievements.go to Muslimheritage.com
    and read their achievements.

  • Dr Mishra

    shan- any link or evidence for this statement of yours- ….. When arabs conquered NORTH AFRICA , the place was verdant , lush green. The arabs hated this scenary.Slowly but surely it turned into a desert ,FOR THAT MADE THEM FEEL AT HOME……
    any link or evidence ??

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Panditji, I dont scavenge internet , i have read it somewhere , i have to jog my mind.When I have found , I will post it , may be in Encyclopaedia britannica , or it may be somewhere else.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    u writings depend on ur mood,not facts.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    u writings depend on ur mood,not facts this is for shan not for punditjee.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I do remeber reading a similar thing…”longing for back home’…they wanted new lands look like the old ones.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Panditji, this the bit i found in the section BERBER in wikipedia. However the exact expression used by me is validated by this cut and paste. I am still trying to think where I have read it, here you have it the cut and paste.
    Before the 11th century, most of Northwest Africa was a Berber-speaking Muslim area. The process of Arabization only became a major factor with the arrival of the Banu Hilal, a tribe sent by the Fatimids of Egypt to punish the Berber Zirid dynasty for having abandoned Shiism. The Banu Hilal reduced the Zirids to a few coastal towns, and took over much of the plains; their influx was a major factor in the Arabization of the region, and in the spread of nomadism in areas where agriculture had previously been dominant.

    PLEASE NOTE THE LAST LINE.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    yes they ignored irrigation system and water management.but afterward same area became very fertile and prosperous.THIS DESCRIPTION IS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY IBN KHALDOUN,a great arab scientist and philosopher.why u deleted his name.some time u have bad rulers everywhere.now sudan is bread basket of africa.i dont know when sarkosy nato and america will attack them to save from human right voilation.
    they have gone to philipines to liberate them from spanish rule .when they left country was brothel.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan just to add to ur knowledge something about ibn khaldoun,

    Ibn Khaldūn or Ibn Khaldoun (full name, Arabic: أبو زيد عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن خلدون الحضرمي‎, Abū Zayd ‘Abdu r-Raḥman bin Muḥammad bin Khaldūn Al-Hadrami, May 27, 1332 AD/732 AH – March 19, 1406 AD/808 AH) was an Arab polymath[1][2] — an astronomer, economist, historian, Islamic jurist, Islamic lawyer, Islamic scholar, Islamic theologian, hafiz, mathematician, military strategist, nutritionist, philosopher, social scientist and statesman—born in North Africa in present-day Tunisia.[3] He is considered a forerunner of several social scientific disciplines: demography,[4] cultural history,[5][6] historiography,[7][8][9] the philosophy of history,[10] and sociology.[4][8][9][10][11][12] He is also considered one of the forerunners of modern economics,[8][13][14] alongside the earlier Indian scholar Chanakya.[15][16][17][18] Ibn Khaldun is considered by many to be the father of a number of these disciplines, and of social sciences in general,[19][20] for anticipating many elements of these disciplines centuries before they were founded in the West. He is best known for his Muqaddimah (known as Prolegomenon in English), the first volume of his book on universal history, Kitab al-Ibar. However, Ibn Khaldun’s ideas were not absorbed by his society, nor were they carried forward by its future generations. Muslims had ignored and lost him for centuries until he was rediscovered by the West in the 19th century as one of the greatest philosophers of Islam.[

    shan Reply:

    @Tejender, IbnKhaldom and his treatment speaks volume about ISLAM

  • http://- Rajeev

    Dr.Sharma,
    Sadhu..Sadhu..You are a great saint. You don’t want to enter Mecca but I want to.
    If muslims are allowed in non-muslim holy CITIES, we too have right to enter their holy cities.

    As far as mera bharat mahaan is concerned, less said the better.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Rajeev

    It is a twisted argument.

    If they do not allow non-Muslims there, you do not allow Muslims in your place, rather than asking them to open up….

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    indira was denied entry in guruyavar temple as her husband was not hindu.non hindus are not allowed in hindu places of worship.my own son was allpwed in sai baba temple (though sai baba was muslim)only with permission.

    If they do not allow non-Muslims there, you do not allow Muslims in your place, rather than asking them to open up

    isee ko pagal kahte hain

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    It is impossible for us to close our cities to these invades as proven in the case of Ayodhya, Varanasi and Prayag.
    We want to enter Mecca and Medina. When time comes we would like to build a temple over tomb of Mohammad and also church over kaaba.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    but the christians will cut ur neck as idoltary is biggest evil in their religion.

    tajender Reply:

    the three cities are not ur cities they are originally budhhdist cities.u simply plundered them and changes the idols.

  • http://- Rajeev

    According to Mo-Autar, MUSLIMS are REFINED JEWS.

    Quran calls jews PIGS so can we say that according to QURAN muslims are REFINED PIGS.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rubbish jews are our brother.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    So you guys are pigs… :) Very honest.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    An example of peaceful men and women protesting their own unique way-
    http://photo.outlookindia.com/images/gallery/20110421/jaitapur_protest_20110502.jpg

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    what is the background to this photo

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    This is about Nuclear plant in Jaitapur where locals mostly muslims are protesting their own peaceful ways.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    An article on how an ancient religion/adherents adapt their rituals to the requirements/rules of the new world.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/nyregion/hindus-find-a-ganges-in-queens-to-park-rangers-dismay.html

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    excellent link, benoy. I have been to NY once and met some lovely people from the hindu caribbean community. In fact Suketu Mehta has written at length about his move from Mumbai to Jackson Heights NY and paints a rich picture about the Indian community there.

    @shan- nice link about the effect of Arabs on the greenery of north Africa. will explore more

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    this was not effect of arabs.this was deed of bad ruler who ignored irrigation and water management system,purposely to punish local for changing faith later fatmaids themselves converted to sunni faith.and sudan and maghreb became bread basket of africa,dont take this as racial or religious sometime when ruler is bad things like this happen.britishers did worst to india.now iraq,richest country of world is pauperized by americans.destruction of libya is under process.

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    Quite interesting to see the Lokpal bill circus..

    All factions resist it; means that it is good!

    Sharad Pawar, Diggie, newspapers all are trying to sabotage — now they are after Shantibhushan, Justice hegde ……

    Sharad Pawar, apparently, more than Mayawati or Lalu or Raja or any other ploitician or bureaucrat in India, has made zillions of crores over these years. It is a shame that he continues as a minister. It is a shame we all tolerate all these.

    Economic crimes should be treated as strong as terrorist crimes. There should be a “chinese model of justice”..Line up and shooot..

    Democracy without citizen involvement and strong institutions ( a ka US) is not a democracy, it becomes a stealocracy…

    Time to seriously think how much the country would have advanced if corruption was within control, if politicians were accountable (and put in jail), and if bureaucrats were punished for their wrongdoings. Where does the development money for UP disappear? Bihar, I think, now under Nitish Kumar, may not be stealing as much from the development money. Crores and crores have been allocated in all these five year plans with nothing to show for that. The Development allocation has been a bottomless piggybank for bureaucrats.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Lmirza, talking about corruption is one thing proving is another. Unless you can prove in a court of law , it becomes just SLANDER. as for devolopement funds WHY CANT THEY JUST GIVE IT TO PREFERRED BIDDER like they do it in UK OR USA , no tender nothing , no backhanders, JUST GIVE IT TO TATAS OR INFOSYS OR WIPRO OR GODREJ OR CIPLA , ask them to use their mangerial expertise to build scholls , hospitals , roads FULL STOP, THERE WILL BE NO LEAKAGE THE QUALITY WILL BE GOOD FOR THEY HAVE THEIR BRAND IMAGE TO THINK OF.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    L Mirza, good comment.
    Merely having a Lokpal will not be enough. We Indians dole out bribes at every step. When a police officer came to check my friends particulars for the passport application, in 1984, he evry cheerfully accepted and got a Rs 100 bribe.
    Houses sold in Haryana are subject to a fixed % which is divided by many- it is openly called Chautala fund.
    Till we get TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY in every dealing with a govt agency, which I believe the Lokpal bill is concerned, then we will not progress.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    further Mirza, in the world of high stakes, some gems come out in wierd and wonderful ways. When Clinton was forced by US to declare his foundation accounts the following worm wa unearthed-
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-12-19/india/27892831_1_clinton-foundation-amar-singh-general-secretary

    Amar Singh figures among those who made donations worth anywhere between Rs 4.6 crore to Rs 23 crore. Assuming that the SP general secretary just about made the grade, he would have parted with at least 20% of his declared assets to the Clinton Foundation.
    ——————–
    this is pennies at that level

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Dr Mishra/Mirza

    There was a news two weeks ago that an IAS guy in Karnataka Commerce Dept demanded bribe from Infosys. Mohandas Pai, a senior exce of Infosys revealed this. BJP is all after the IAS guy and after Mohandas PAi fotr proof and proof over proof. Infosys put Banaglore on the worldmap. It has close to 20,000 employees in Karnataka – several centers in banaglore, huge training univ in Mysore, centers in mangalore and Surathkal .. I believe the bribery demand was in connection with facility expansion or something.

    I could not believe this when I read this.

    As a famous newspaper man uttered here in US during the McCarthy hearings “Senator, dont you have any shame”…

    I am with Mirza’s vieew on economic crimes – these should be dealt as severelya s terrorist crimes . In fact, even worse than terrorism — terrorist act is a one time event; while the results of economic terrorism robs the country of expansion and opportunities.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    thanks mr benoy i agree with u.that is why i support anna with my heart.i pray for his life.i hope he will not have the end like ghandhi or karkare.zoinism survives on corruption.

    shan Reply:

    In Uk policemen dont come to check your identity or house or your criminal background when you apply for a passport. The council bill is proof enough and for peoplelike me who need a CRB (criminal records bureau) certificate every year because i come in contact with children when whipping their appendix. all I need to do is pay 37 pounds , the form goes to liverpool(now it can be done over the internet) they check their DATA BASE and then issue the certificate. Despite Ashish’s braggadicio about “INNOVATION ECOSYSTEM” , the fact of the matter is INDIA IS BASICALLY A POOR BACKWARD COUNTRY, and the people at the helm are all SOB’s who will sell the country if the price is right. just refer to bullet substitution in jessica Lal murder case. Incredible NO ONE HAS BEEN BOOKED FOR PERJURY.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Rizwan,

    “mishraji, when I was at college, this was the kind of shit that was sometoimes thrown at me in cafe, usually well meaning but very irritating- of but Saudi does this, Pak la la land does that etc etc- cos I am a muslim”

    I agree Indian muslims have nothing to do with Saudis or Malaysians who mistreat their minorities but why do we see Indian muslims supporting freedom of so-called muslim lands from non-muslims such as ISRAEL, KASHMIR, CHECHENYA. Why is it Indian muslims show Bush black flags for Iraq and Afghanistan. You get mushy eyed when muslims are in distress but when the same muslims cause distress to mnorities, you look the other way. When are you going to stand up for minorities in muslim countries.

    “your words were brilliant dude- ” @Rajeev- I have no desire to enter Mecca. I have no interest in whether Saudis allow temples to be built there. Mera bhaarat mahaan, I have no wish to be compared to a mad mulla country called Saudi. ” ”

    Mishra being a Mishra, use forked tongue in public. If he doesn’t want to go to Mecca, it is his wish. But there are 4.5 billion other people who may like to go to mecca for sight seeing. What is so special about that place that it is forbidden for non-muslims.

    “I needed u in that cafe years ago man !!!! nOW EITHER U ACCEPT THAT I AM A MODERN INDIAN MUSLIM, and if u accept that then why this ‘deoband says that, jinnah says that shit allatime- nuffin to do wit me, geddit ????”

    You definitely are modern muslims but you do support palestinian violent attacks on Israel, you do have sympathy for chechen terrorist, privately you may be supporting freedom for kashmiris. Jinnah too was a modern muslims who used muslim communalism.

    On a personal level, I’ll never view or treat you as muslim because there is something called courtesy but when it comes to community, muslims have not been fair towards minorities. I don’t believe in sounding correct like Mishra.

    My belief is plain and simple, if I treat you with respect, you need to reciprocate in same way. If I allow you in my holy cities, I expect you to do the same or at least agree that non-muslims should be allowed in mecca.

    Sorry, If I hurt your feelings but truth can not be covered with hypocrisy anymore. If everyone is equal then there should not be a rider with it.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Rajeev

    Rather than quid pro quo, dont allow in holy cities. Just because you “open up” does not mean otehrs have to reciprocate; they ahve nota sked you to mopen up..

    And you cannot generalize about what sympathies Muslims have. Of couse some or many may have what you implied -[palestinians, Kashmiris, Chechnyans etc. – or the “umma” stuff. But there is a danger in generalizing.

    We should take Rizwan for what he says, and argue with his opinions; let us not attribute a coommunal guilt on him. That is quite unfair.

    By attributing a communal guilt on him, youa re doinga major injustice. He should not be and acnnot be blamed for what XYZ does. This is like saying raja is corrupt, so all hindus are corrupt.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I am not talking about Rizwan but majority of muslims.
    Majority of muslims don’t care about rights of non-muslims in muslim countries.

    Rizwan kind of people don’t speak up when in their own community.

    Let Rizwan make a video of him telling his co-religionist in mosque that non-muslims should be given equal rights in muslim country and record the replies.
    I am pretty sure it will be an ugly video.

    Do you mean to say that we can shut our holy cities on them? If yes, why are they barking about unused illegal mosque called Babri?

    By the way majority of Indians are corrupt and hindus make up majority of that. This is the exact reason Anna Hazare and his activists are being skinned by Thakurs like Amar SIngh/Digvijay Singh and brahmins like Vinod Sharma.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    majority of muslims are creator of wealth.while most of refugee punjabis are mixture of 5 evils.ur stupities have no takers.most of the frauds thieves and scam operators comes from there.u are not true indian hence like advani,dont love india.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    arey, majority (a big majority) of Muslims do not care abt Babri — they did not riot when the supreme court had its verdict.. That means their leaders and interested politicians cannot fool them on these issues anymore…that is good for Indian democracy.

    Ya, some of the leaders carry on their crusade… becaus ethey think there is a vote opportunity..these are the same ones who will sell their mothers too

    tajender Reply:

    Raju Kurien the entire movement was based on fraud and lies.ayodhya was never hindu plavce.nobody knew ram before tulsidas wrote ram charit manas.because his wife harassed and ignored her.ayodhya was described by chinese travellers as budhhdist settlement.which was plundered and destroyed after their defeat.their temples were converted into shivalas(shivtemples).now vaishanite has no important place for them ,they want to occupy ayodhya for them.
    that is why most of the leaders of this movement are migrant.while locals of ayodhya and indians in general are opposed to movement.
    muslims are sad for babri mosque.the insulting way it was semolished in 20th century.but they are weak ,they cannot do any thing.preservation of constitution is duty of majority not the weaker section of society.

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Binoy

    What you say is most agreeable.

    We need to focus on countering Wahabism because it is dangerously regressive philosophy.

    We need to counter any form of Islamist reactionary philosophy because it has become indiscriminatory in philosophy.

    What we do not need to do, is start discriminating against hard working Indian Muslims who like most other Indians – like Rizwan’s family – want to progress.

    Not making this distinction degenerates this discussion into a slanging match which is grossly un-satisfactory.

    I am sure that you would have noted here, that all such discussion which have focused on nuanced points have been more satisfying than the point scoring rants.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Total Bakwas, full of Hindu Fundo gob shite.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    @ Mishraji, you are agent provocateur, you have lit a fire with your words and while some like Binoy are enjoying the fireworks, some like Rajeev are being burnt. BRILLIANT- ‘…I have no desire to enter Mecca. I have no interest in whether Saudis allow temples to be built there. Mera bhaarat mahaan, I have no wish to be compared to a mad mulla country called Saudi. ” ”

    Benoy, thank you for speaking up for me, I cannot do it better now.
    Rajeev, dont get me wrong but u seem a bit obsessive- ‘…But there are 4.5 billion other people who may like to go to mecca for sight seeing…’ Really, Rajeev, i DONT THINK SO.

    We live in Gurgaon. My abba jaan applied for the membership of DLF golf club where the European tours are played-rejected (a) The waiting list was miles long (b) The membership fees made him faint hahaha.
    So we cant get in, but we dont obsess. But Dad has worked hard all his life and is gifting us a factory, so me and my brother have secretly resolved that we will expand and be more profitable and one day we will gift abba jaan with the golf membership

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    Rajeev if I say inshallah to that hope I do not inflame you, it is just a sweet word

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rizwan,
    I am bit obsessive. You got that right. I’d love to visit Mecca, may be scoff at paganitic rituals performed around Kaaba.
    Also try out pork ribs near Kaaba…

    We have given this kind of freedom to muslims in non-muslim lands so we would like to experience same kind of freedom in muslims countries.

    By the way nothing personal…

    Pl. do think about debating with your muslim friends about opening up Mecca for Kafir and let us know the reaction. Just posting in blogs won’t do..

    As far as humor is concerned, you don’t know me…

    Do you agree with Mo-Autar that muslims are refined jews? I found his assertion very funny… did you?

    and then Ravi-Osama-Servant greeting Mo-Autar with ‘Sat Sri Akal’…This is the kind of humor I love.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Rajeev- 99% of my sikh and hindu friends are uncomfy abt Israel’s treatment of Palestine and are outraged abt Russia’s shelling of Chechnya.
    100% of my muslim friends r not lining up to go fight for Chech or Palestine- yes I hear Gopi sir saying some from Kerala are- there is a problem , lets solve it together
    99% of us Indian muslims do not support Kashmiri independence- even Maulana Madani – MP- said so
    Like isi+ravi and tajender+ramavtar is too anti hindu, U R 2 ANTI MUSLIM. suggest u read what mishraji, gopi, syed, benoy, mirza, kurien raju, sandhu funny paaji- write here- there is wisdom and wit and bite in their sayings.

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    sandhu funny paaji, yr jokes r BRILLLLLLIANNNNTTTTTT man- my family roared with laughter at the one abt RAVI+ISI taking my rishta to lahore and S SINGH AND rajeev closing off the border- hahahaha
    paaji, some jokes on rajeev too please, i loved yr dignosis on ravi- lack-of-humoritis, seems rajeev too suffers from it, needs yr laughter medicine
    rajeev just joking buddy

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Nodding dog number 2.

    By Nodding Khayam.

    The Nodding Dog nods; and having nodded
    Moves on: nor all thy Pity nor Pith
    Shall lure it back to add half a Pun
    Nor all they false laughter make it any Fun

    Regards from too anti Hindu Pakistani Ravi and Shan’s KUTTAR

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Nodding dog Number 3

    Pasha called, why no riots
    Then I said it is tough
    Because they r Indians and not Arabs
    But themn why were u not able to change
    Then I said agent Rams are no good for nothing
    He makes them reconvert

    Pasha, need a transfer
    For they have “dis” covered me

    I tried with Jain killings
    and of coutsre you kno Devdasis
    but these gyuys go in circles
    And you have to change the course syllabus

    You are teaching of India eons ago
    And they have moved on unlike us
    Entreneurpreneurism and Qualitry of Life
    Things you didnt teach us at ISI college

    Pasha Pasha aasha chod do
    For I could not change these veggans
    Because they r eating their beef now
    And you told us they are vegans

    Passha Pasha Oh my leader
    Did u know they dropped drones
    When you were with Mullen Sahib

    Pasha Pasha things are bad
    Allah looks like He is here

    Pasha Pasha what we do
    Now that Hedley talking to press

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Yet another bloody fool.

    Pasha bemused at selective perception
    Asks Ram if he read the RIOT report
    Where Modi policeman, his name did mention
    Pasha I am sure there is plenty to retort

    Pasha they can discover what they like
    For they are guided by their own shite

    I tried with 9 yr old’s wedding
    And ignored rampant Hindu incest
    but the new Hindus fundo syllabus
    Has compromised my ability to jest

    You are teaching of a minority of Muslims
    Most have moved just like you
    Entreneurpreneurism and Qualitry of Life
    Is what they have – but they are ignored by you

    Pasha Pasha aasha hi zindgi hai
    For I could not care about veggans
    Even if they r eating their beef now
    Beef goes very well with baingans

    Passha Pasha you are a bloody fool
    Did u know drones are a blunt weapon
    They get Mullah and the girls school

    Pasha Pasha things are better
    Ram looks like He is here

    Pasha Pasha what we do
    Now that Modi’s Muslim lesson
    Is being taught in the court too.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Discovery of India by an ISIagent who was “dis”covered

    pasha pasha stupid man
    They are indians first unlike us
    when do we tell our folks
    Land of pure has gone impure
    We cant even blame kauffrs
    For we have killed all of them
    Pasha Pasha what we do
    Now that yankees know our deals

    Pasha Pasha stupid man
    Why in the hell u lighted Godhra
    That has made the mad man stronger
    And he says he will build seven Dubais

    And worse he is unlike otehrs
    Gor he not steal nor favor
    Ana used him as an example
    Even marxists tout him now

    Pasha Pasha stupid man
    Were u drunk (oops) when
    U thought that will be the satyanash

    Pasha Pasha did u know
    They have muslims, muslims
    Here there and everywher
    we jail Christians, and u know what
    they give keys to chrsitians here

    sardar gives them growtha nd growth
    yankees down, but he gives 10 times growth
    and we drive them out

    Pasja Psha did u knwo
    Mama Soni is a christian
    lucky she is here
    For we would have treated her well
    By putting her with the blaspa girl

    Pasha Pasha Premji is kaffr
    For he runs the mighty wipro

    PAsha PAsha how to succeed
    I m becominga real ravi
    becoa how long can I go bck in time

    PAsha PAsha u tried Budhists
    didnt work becoz he is the ninth they say

    Pasha Pasha u tried Jains
    they just poopoo it was then
    And Vinay comes up with evidence u dont like

    Then u said get in Devdasis
    making me a foool all over

    Pasha Pasha they love Kalam
    and of course that Anthony
    He nor stole nor favored his boys

    Pasha Pasha what we do
    Muslims aretopping IAS
    and kuriens are all over

    Pasha Pasha what we do
    Ram says try chathurvarn

    He is nuts and he is my chief
    For hr doesnot know Karunanidhi
    EVRs baby stole big time
    And Mody doesnt afll for money or stuff

    Pasha Pasha what we do
    BAbri did not bomba s we thought

    Looks like all r kauffers
    What we do

    ten percent growth makes them sing
    Easwer Allah there Nam

    Pasha Pasha we got Diggi
    But he is a laughing stock

    Pasha Pasha move me out
    May be DC where they will burn the book
    And we can try our tricks better

    Pasha Pasha please please please
    Dot you make me fail in my mission

    yre

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Passha Pasha this is getting worse.
    The imbecile now is ranting in verse

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Pasha Pasha dont ask me
    To harp on temples not allowin women
    Then some comes with temples only for women

    Pasha Psha domta sk me
    to go to obscure places and pick on obscure things
    For this land is big and old

    Pasha Pasha stupid man
    Dont you know that they have billion plus

    Pasha PAsha they ahve Oriya they have Telugu
    Some have Gods and some dont care

    Pasha Pasha stupid man
    Did we lose our eye on te ball

    Pasha Pasha send me to Riyadh
    I can do my magic there
    They like Allah and nothing but Allah
    Fitting nice with our planss

    I can also make up for
    Their recent issues with us purists

    And more important
    Congress is doing our work
    So wy watse precious exchange

    Pasha Pasha please please please
    Send me Riyadh, if not DC

    Pasha Pasha please please please
    Cut RAm off his assignments

    tajender Reply:

    this bloody gopi is rss man baat kaa btangad banata hai.many of the hindus and muslims are caught in illegal bussines.does not means that all are criminals.

    rajeev insistence on entering mecca is part of rss consipary to ignite civil war in india.they have planning to somehow remove muslims from ayodhya(which is basically buhdhdist place its name is not mentioned anywhere in hindu scripture)and other other places where they have important temples.they will use this stupid argument to start their nefarious murderous activities.

    regarding palestine,most of the world are supporting their cause.but power of land grabbers is so great that they are silent.VILLIAN IS BEATEN IN THE END IN BEGINING HE DO ALL TYPE
    OF STUPIDITIES.
    i disagree with mishrajees that mullahs are nad.they always bow to reason.there are 3million hindus working in saudi arabia.no one wants to come.i have punjabi friend deewan,who have to almost beat his wife to force her to go canada.this is not good to bad mouth somebody without good reasoning.there are some foolish everywhere.problem with hidu zoinist is that they extremely incompetent ,depent only on lies and communal riots to win election.some wrote on blog that in afghanistan talibans started supporting indian cause when understood reason behind this.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Sorry mate , i wholeheartedly support russians in their mission to to CIVILIZE the BARBARIC chechens. Only reason you support chechens is because they are muslims. Did you support venezuela against yanks. You probably do not know where venezuela is , same with vietman ,which muslim country did one see holding protest march(you can argue they are all dictatorship , so they dont know what a protest march is).As for chechens how curious BESLAN MASSACRE of 200 CHILDREN compleletely eluded you.I agree russians have pretty much PULVERISED the capital. Then again i watched a BBC documentary on Chechneya.Guys these chechens SUCKS(your lingo).apparently it is chechen custom ,if you fancy a girl ,you dont court her ,shower her with gifts or use rajesh khanna chat line “Aap Ko kahin Dekha Hai”.THEY SIMPLY ABDUCT HER. This is a fact.Then one of the abductors contacts the maulavi , who gets in touch with the hapless family. Initially they resist , then the abductors threaten with deflorating the girl , also imam reminds them , if she returns , she will be a social outcast . The girl’s family has no choice but to relent and agree to the nikah. The imam doesn’t have much of a face to speak against it as TWO OF HIS THREE WIVES WERE PROCURED BY SNATCHING.Now these barbaric people would do well to embrace russian language and literature , klike gogol, pushkin, tolstoy RATHER THAN PERFUME GARDEN

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan u are absolutly ill informed person.checheya was annexed by russia.had population of 2 million now population is 800000 thousands.they have killed hundred of thousands of muslim
    boys and girls.
    in beslan also locals attacked russian school to get his prisnor released not to kill them.but putin attacked the premises while negotiations are on.knowing fully well that whole building is dynamited and danger to children..

    this marriage is accepted in their society.JISKI MUTTI HAI DUM USKI HAI HASEENA.what is wron if society accept this.

    russian and robbed this area.since their annexation local residents are fighting occupation.

    shan u have superficial knowledge.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Sorry mate , i wholeheartedly support russians in their mission to to CIVILIZE the BARBARIC chechens

    they are simply robbing and plundering checheya.occupying this instead of leaving this like they left central asian republic.chechenya had has huge huge oil wealth and natural deposit and port.

    which civilization they are giving them,their OWN LADIES ARE AVAILABLE IN PLENTY FOR 10 DOLLARS a shot on the streets of dubai or istamboul.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    barbaric people would do well to embrace russian language and literature , klike gogol, pushkin, tolstoy
    why not u do it india.they are russians.they are different.they can read or follow those above great writers but not at the cost of slavery and robbery of their natural wealth.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rizwan,
    “‘Rajeev- 99% of my sikh and hindu friends are uncomfy abt Israel’s treatment of Palestine and are outraged abt Russia’s shelling of Chechnya.”
    How about I say that 100% of muslims I have met have hatred for Israel and want to see every jew killed? Indians have habit of preaching but in reality, hindus and sikhs are more sympathetic towards Israel.

    “100% of my muslim friends r not lining up to go fight for Chech or Palestine- yes I hear Gopi sir saying some from Kerala are- there is a problem , lets solve it together
    99% of us Indian muslims do not support Kashmiri independence- even Maulana Madani – MP- said so”
    That’s because India is not yet a muslim country but Indian muslims are becoming increasingly visible in global terror. As far as Kashmir is concerned, it is in the interest of Indian muslims to keep quiet because if kashmir separates from India, Indian muslims will have to pay heavy price.

    “Like isi+ravi and tajender+ramavtar is too anti hindu, U R 2 ANTI MUSLIM. suggest u read what mishraji, gopi, syed, benoy, mirza, kurien raju, sandhu funny paaji- write here- there is wisdom and wit and bite in their sayings.”
    My line is very simple..I want equal treatment of everybody and want muslims to reciprocate respect that non-muslims show towards Islam. Is it too much to ask? I am yet to meet a muslim who genuinely respects other faiths. As far as mishra and co. are concerned, they write to appease each other..I can not be like them.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    I see wonderful poetry here
    sorry Rizwan and Sandhu praaji, no lack of humoritis here
    I diagnose funny bone-itis in Raju Kurien and Ravi of isi
    keep it up guys

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    sahn, I HAVE NOT LISTED ALL MY CONDEMNATIONS- I was just responding to A FEW RAISED by Rajeev.
    Of course I condemn Beslan school and the Russian theatre siege by the terrorists, and US rape of Vietnam – who wouldnt. I have seen the iconic photo of the My Lai napalm bombing.
    Once again you have taken me bak to the univ cafe- no change there eh ??? I have to condemn all Islamist terrorist atrocities openly, u cant read my character that Benoy, Gopi, Sandhu paaji and Mishraji have done so easily
    did u know the afghan mujahedin use to skin russian soldiers alive and not kill them so they could be left to talk to their russian officers ? want me to condemn that 2, but then i wud say wot were the ruskies doing in a foreign land

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rizwan

    You do not have to condemn all Islamist terrorist killings. However, b y not doing that, it just gives a “tool” to others, especially in the West (and may be all over) that there are no “moderate Muslims”, because were there were, they would have condemned.

    Let us hope peace will prevail. Keep up your good work

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    india has only hindu terrorist who are caught in jail.since then we at peace.there is no blast now.
    all parer organization like huji,im and simmi have disappeared from media.

    [Reply]

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    In the last two months, there have been 4 terrorism related arrests, here in the U.K.

    Two major bomb/weapons find.

    Two major police investigations started.

    These are not Islamist related, but are resurrection of old sectarian violence.

    shan Reply:

    @tejender, if jailing couple of extreeme right BRAMHIN nutters can simply make all other muslim terrorist outfit close their shop , THEN THERE IS NOTHING LIKE IT.but that is wishful thinking.
    AS for ISI agent , thus automatically KUTTAR , his assertion of terrorist problem in uk is sectarian , beggars beleif. Then what do you expect from the ones “who beat their for refusing you know what”
    as I have posted before MI5 is following 2000 plots by muslim extreemist , college professors have been asked to spy on muslim students , cameron is pumping 650 million (what a folly) in TERRORISTAN to stem the production and export of terrorist coming to UK in the guise of student visa or by fake marriage.
    RECENTLY THESE LONG BEARDED NUTTERS HAVE SAID THEY WILL DEFY POLICE ORDERS AND PROTEST NEXT FRIDAY AT WESTMINISTER ABBEY DURING THE ROYAL WEDDING.
    this is because Prince William and Prince Harry are in British Army which is killing fellow circumcised quom in afganistan , THEY WANT THEM TO LEAVE BRITISH ARMY.
    This is also known as baap ka maal attitude.

    tajender Reply:

    @tejender, if jailing couple of extreeme right BRAMHIN nutters can simply make all other muslim terrorist outfit close their shop , THEN THERE IS NOTHING LIKE IT.but that is wishful thinking

    THIS SHOWS MUSLIM TERRORISM was media creation.it was victory of brhmnst media cracy.

    RECENTLY THESE LONG BEARDED NUTTERS HAVE SAID THEY WILL DEFY POLICE ORDERS AND PROTEST NEXT FRIDAY AT WESTMINISTER ABBEY DURING THE ROYAL WEDDING

    in a democratic society everybody has right to give his opion.biggest procession against iraq war, were carried out in europe by christians.no iraqi has hurt britain,why they are going there and kill civilian population.had i been in england i too would have participated
    in demostrated.but this country survives on looting and plundering of weaker countries
    like they once did to indians and now doing in libya.

    as I have posted before MI5 is following 2000 plots by muslim extreemist

    rubbish let them come out with some proof.this is only for media purpose.

    shan Reply:

    Ruskies were doing an incredible job CIVILIZING THEM , for you TALIBAN is more preferable than ruskies. I will invite ruskies(certainly the russian girls) anytime to my house than the BACCHABAZI taliban ,WHO APPARENTLY WANTED TO LIVE LIKE PROPHET DID that is circa 400AD.
    Pre Taliban afganistan was a heaven compared to hell it become under MUJAHEDDIN , remember the NOSE SLICED OFF OF THAT BEAUTIFUL AFGHAN GIRL by her father for running away from abusive husband , THIS WAS ON THE FRONT COVER OF “TIME” MAGAZINE.
    I once had a afghan female patient in jeans who had sought asylum in uk.The condition she was suffering from , made me ask the question “do you smoke” , she said yes. then she told me quite a few women in soviet era used to smoke and were quite liberated.Now I know this WOMEN’S FREEDOM AND EMANCIPATION is virulently opposed by muslim personal law board supporters.

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    tajender Reply:

    but who brought taliban.why not curse them.the moment american leave area they will be cut into pieces.vhp is doing same here.yesterday they have blackened the face of girls working on tv.
    before taliban kabul was like tehran in shahs days.full of brothels lads from lahore,islamabad
    and karachi used to go there to enjoy.SIKH BHI PEECHE NAHIN THE.HO SAKTA HAI HAMARE BADE PAAJEE NE BHI EK ADH CHAKKAR UDHAR KA ZAROOR LAGYA HOGA.

    FREEDOM AND EMANCIPATION is virulently opposed by muslim personal law board supporters.
    YES FREEDOM TO PROSTITUTION SELLING UR BODY AND ROAMING HALF NAKED ONSTREETS IS OPPOSED TO ISLAM.that way sona ghachi ,one of the biggest located in calcutta is the most free place in the world.

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    tajender Reply:

    shan muslim women is emancipated through islam.dont need ur support.islam is the only religion which provde right to divorce,own property.marriage cannot be performed without her will.
    u hindus have no marriage laws u have borrowed this from catholism.which is bullshit.

    even if i see my wife sleeping with others ,i cannot divorce,as pairs are made god on the sky.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    OK Ram, Islam is the best — Shut up now

    ISI Agent & SHAN's KUTTAR Reply:

    Ram Autar bhai – Sat Sri Akaal.

    I would like to state here, that all the contributions you have made here for the last couple of weeks have been of the highest quality and have really delighted me.

    I am confident that you are a man who is not easily defeated, but just to make sure that you do not feel alone, I am with you. I do not have the same kind of knowledge as well as your skills and above all your knack to resist provocation, so I am unable to join in some of your retorts to the reactionary twaddle one encounters here.

    You are my hero.

    As I was reading and re-reading some of your posts, the following ghazal came to my mind and I would like to share it with you. By way of your hausala afzahi.

    Muddat Huee Hai Yaar Ko Mehmaan Kiye Hue
    Josh-E-Qadah Se Bazm Chiraaghaan Kiye Hue

    Ik Nau Bahaar-E-Naaz Ko Taaqe Hai Fir Nigaah
    Chehra Furogh-E-Mai Se Gulistaan Kiye Hue

    Jee Dhoondta Hai Fir Wohee Fursat Ke Raat Din
    Baithe Rahain Tasavvur-E-Jaanaan Kiye Hue

    ‘Ghalib’ Hamein Na Ched Ki Fir Josh-E-Ashq Se
    Baithe Hain Ham Tahayya-E-Toofaan Kiay Hue

    Rajeev Reply:

    ‘Sat Sri Akal’ to Mo Autar….Heights of faking.. :)

  • tajender

    ravi bhai hum lucknow ke hain,urdu hamaree jaban hai, arabi kutch bhi ho hum to yahee kahein ge,

    mere rab ko manzoor tha yaroon varna,

    quran bhi utarta bazabane URDU.

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    Rajeev Reply:

    Is their a LUCKNOW street in Karachi?

    Kasam Allah ki, tum jhoothon ka koi imaan nahi hai.

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  • AshishC

    I am surprised that today, we can read ill-informed opinion even in mainstream dailies.
    Rape is about domination; it is not about sex; brutal or otherwise.
    That said, legalizing prostitution is desirable and should happen. That is to ensure better hygiene, safety and physical security to the sex-workers and their clients too.
    To tout legalizing prostitution as a means to solve the problems of rapes committed by migrants, is unsound as an argument.
    Also, idle. One would have expected some statistics which told us if migrants indeed have been responsible for majority of the rapes. I remember it mentioned in “Satyameva Jayate” that most crimes against women are committed within the four walls of their homes. How does Mr Chauhan square this with his migrant bashing?
    It really takes very little to be writing blogs in the HT Bogs!

    [Reply]