Bin Laden’s best friends, 30 years ago

Geopolitics and political vaccums created the leaders of the terrorism; but not terrorism itself. That was the brain child of OBL, whose mind was idled by the Russian retreat, and thinking about “what to do next”.

Mujahuddins from Saudi Arabia and other parts of the world traveled to Afhgnstan to fight the Godless communists long before US got involved. And the same trait is still motivating; creating foot soldiers left and right.

“Islam in danger” was the motivational cry used by KSA to send human exports to Afghanistan, western powers siezed on this and added fuel to the fire. What makes Muslim minds so easily attracted to the “Islam in danger” rhetoric? Rusiia did not attack the holy places of Mecca and Medina.

No catholics from other parts of the world joined IRA terrorists when they terrorized England. No IRA terrorist went to countres sympathetic to UK to explode in those countries.

Blaming US for Bin Laden’s amnd Islamic terrorism is like blaming a mother for her son becomg a murderer.

[Reply]

bigbang Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 am

so according to you who should be blamed…. USSR or fanatic Muslims or ISI? Who added fuel to the fire and acted as an all-time-catalyst by supplying arms, training and motivation. Let them sort the mess out. But unfortunately, India also got impacted from their creation of global terrorism.

[Reply]

John Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 7:14 am

You are an idiot, refrain yourself from such discussions. Next time do your homework and then comment. OBL is a creation of western poltics.

[Reply]

bigbang Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:46 pm

…you are an idiot… well John… when you type those words that judgement speaks volume of your intellectual mind

[Reply]

drzusiddiqui Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 2:06 am

No roman catholics joined the movement by IRA because they don’t believe in spoiling their worldly luxary for religion. The same thing goes for most religions. Islam is never in danger even if kaaba in mecca is demolished. The world is in danger when there is no justice. Islam wants to establish justice and for this purpose it can take any justified step.

[Reply]

shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

@Dr Hypocrite Siddiqui, if Islam is so complete and self sufficient WHY DOES GILANI USE PACEMAKER AND HAD KIDNEY TRANSPLANT AND ANTI REJECTION DRUGS TO KEEP HIM RANTING. He could have rubbed the Holy Quoran a million times on his body WHY ACCEPT THE KUFFER’S LAWS certainly these life sustaining laws were derived from the REVELATION OF THE ILLITERATE MESSENGER OF GOD.

[Reply]

drzusiddiqui Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 3:59 am

Your remarks don’t dserve any comment. they speak for themselves.

@Zia, this is a classic case of TWISTED LOGIC. I fully agree with Binoy hegde’s view.However I suggest all bloggers see the film CHARLIE WILSON’S WAR. How come there was no problem in routing ARMS THROUGH ISRAEL. Only condition as Om Puri, as Gen Zia says “I dont want f….ing star of david signs to be visible when they arrive at pakistan”!!!. Afganistan was doing fine as a communist satellite ,certainly urban womens were , SO WHERE DID THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE EMERGE FROM , THEY CERTAINLY WEREN’T SENT BY MESSENGER OF GOD. This islamic resistance which tried to screw Najib Govt WHO WAS EXTREEMELY FRIENDLY TO INDIA , prompted SOVIET TANKS TO ROLLIN. if there was no islamic ******** resistance to overthrow najib , soviet’s wouldn’t be bothered to send in the tanks. SO WHO ELSE BUT TERRORISTAN can be held responsible for starting the chain of events the price of which we all are paying. USA UK got involved much later , these anglo saxons are SOB , they did same during BANGLADESH WAR. So unless the GERM CENTRE is DISINFECTED(read deislamise) VIRUS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM WILL CONTINUE TO CAUSE PANDEMIC.Rememeber the King, Zahir Shah OPPOSED PAKISTAN’S ENTREE INTO THE UN, which wouldn’t have been a bad thing.

[Reply]

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:41 pm

@Shan

There is no twisted logic…..You invade my country and you will be punished period, No If And or But….understand that…Now go back with your twisted logic

[Reply]

shan Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:54 pm

@Azhar hussain, nazib govt was an afghan ,he had sought russian help , JUST LIKE YANKEE SOLDIERS WERE STAMPIMG ALL OVER THE HOLY MECCA , DURING FIRST GULF WAR, no problem there uh.

[Reply]

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:36 am

@Shan

Nobody was allowed to stamp all over holy Mecca, yes they were in Saudi Arabia and for your information majority of the people objected to that as well.

US invaded Iraq on false and lies ofcourse of you non-muslims were cheering on the sideline? Shan who is going to paying for wrongfull death of almost 1/2 million Iraqis and Afghanis….. You people to need to answer these question without a bottle in your hand…Can do that….I am afraid not because of your bigoted mindset.

Jugmug Singh Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:23 am

No western soldiers were allowed into Mecca, during 1st gulf war. The war was other side of the border.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:07 am

If you are not an Iraqui or Afghani what is your beeef?

Also, you make big noise when US drones drop bombs and kills xx on the border. How come you dont make any issue of killings which your brothers are doing there/ Or for that matter when 1 million plus Muslims got killed in Iraq-Iran war? or hen half a million got massacred in Sudn/Darfur? IOr is it like they are “my niggers” and I can do whatever I want????)

geriatrix Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

” Islamic SOLDIERS ” have also done similar things in their own holy places.
Read more history, please.
In an emergency situation soldiers have to STOMP. Places are by themselves not HOLY

You may CONSIDER subjectively any place as HOLY ; holiness is a state of mind.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:33 am

70 Million Died So The Jews Could Have Palestine
The Nazi & Jewish Affair To Remember
By Katherine Smith, PhD
12-31-10

Premise

The following informed-opinion essay puts forth the premise that WW I, WW II and the Holocaust can be understood if you realize that 70 million people died in order for the Jews to settle in Palestine in 1948.

Events That Changed the World in the 20th Century, edited by Frank W. Thackeray and John E. Findling is a unique resource that offers detailed descriptions and expert analysis of the 20th Century’s most important events; however, the creation of the State of Israel is not among the Events That Changed the World in the 20th Century. [1]

Without a modern State of Israel perspective, historians, scholars and researchers have spent half of the 20th Century writing hundreds of thousands of manuscripts, books, theses, dissertations, essays and journal submissions attempting to resolve the anomalies and inconsistencies of the events from 1897-1948.

The year 2009 was the first time anyone in history realized the significance of Theodore Herzl’s remarks at the first Zionist conference in 1897. Herzl predicted UN Resolution GA 181, would be adopted in 1947, creating the State of Israel. [2]

The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened, by Robert Singer was given to Canada Free Press (CFP) as an Exclusive in March of 2009. CFP is the conservative Canadian website (Alexa Traffic Rank: 20,536), owned and operated by Judi McLeod.

The website disappeared each time the webmaster attempted to post the article. McLeod writes: “Naturally, I am fearful of posting anything that would make CFP disappear. Can you shed any light on this possibility? Thanks, Judi, 3-17-09″ [More at Websites Under Attack]

The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened was reviewed by Mark Weber, the director of The Institute for Historical Review (www.ihr.org) in May of 2010.

The Institute for Historical Review (IHR) continues the tradition of historical revisionism pioneered by distinguished historians such as Harry Elmer Barnes, A.J.P. Taylor, Charles Tansill, Paul Rassinier and William H. Chamberlin. It strives, in the words of Barnes, to “bring history into accord with the facts.”

After the review, Mark wanted to know what Robert Singer had read (The Bible, The Incredible Scofield and his Book, The Cassandra Prophesy) that allowed him to be the first one in history to connect The Scofield Bible, World Wars I, II and the Holocaust, to the Jews arriving in Palestine not in 1946 or 1950, but in 1948, Aka The Key to the Secret of the Universe. [More at, Speaking Engagement at The Institute for Historical Review**Cancelled**]

If the creation of the modern State of Israel is considered one of the most important events in the 20th century, then the following insights “bring history into accord with the facts” and resolve every anomalies and inconsistencies of the events from 1897-1948:

World War I is no longer “a pointless tragedy,” if the goal was to obtain the Balfour Declaration.

Adolph Hitler, a gay prostitute and a street cleaner, who made every mistake possible in his failed attempt to take over the world, can finally be understood.

The influence of the con artist Cyrus Scofield and the Scofield Reference Bible, as the most important instrument for spreading the message of Christian Zionism: that the modern State of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

The Beer Hall Putsch, The Munich Agreement and Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis are anomalies that can finally be reconciled. Part 3: Adolph Hitler: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened? [End of Premise, see Endnote 2]

The Nazi & Jewish Affair to Remember (November 2010)

Why did the CIA create a ’safe haven’ for Nazis in the US after the War? [3]

The Long-hidden report: CIA created ’safe haven’ for Nazis in the US, released November 13, 2010, may be the most concrete account yet of the role that prominent members of Germany’s Nazi Party played in the early, formative years of the CIA, following World War II. The report alleges the CIA created a “safe haven” for Nazis believed to be of use to the US’ Cold War efforts. [4]

Notice the words alleges and believed to be of use to the US’ Cold War efforts.

The 600-page report (not identified until December 10), which the Justice Department has tried to keep secret for four years, confirms what historians refer to as “a pathetic chapter” in our nation’s history. The “experts” our intelligence people recruited were just a bunch of criminals and losers that never provided any useful intelligence about the Soviet Union.”

Three weeks later (December 10), APNewsBreak identifies the report as Hitler’s Shadow: Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence, and the Cold War, and goes into the details on the Nazi Gestapo, and the Ukrainian fascist, Mykola Lebed. Lebed led a paramilitary organization that pursued ethnic cleansing policies during the war.

The December 10 article, unlike the one on November 13, now defends the US’ intelligence officials decision to provide a safe haven for Nazi criminals. The CIA, according to the report, “shielded Lebed by denying any connection with the Nazis and by arguing that he was a Ukrainian freedom fighter. The CIA concluded that Lebed’s activities on behalf of American intelligence were of such ‘inestimable value’ that the agency could ill afford to lose him as an asset.”

CIA spokesman George Little, concerned about the department’s image, issued this statement:

“The CIA at no time had a policy or a program to protect Nazi war criminals, or to help them escape justice for their actions during the war. The agency has cooperated for decades with the Justice Department’s Office of Special Investigations.”

And while the November 13 report concluded the CIA was inept or just stupid because they didn’t know Lieutenant Richard Hallock had a breakthrough in 1943 when he deciphered the codes of the Red Army intelligence (The Venona Project), the December 10 article goes on to defend the CIA’s policies:

“The Army’s willingness to use Gestapo officials against Communists was more substantial or greater than what we had known” and in an attempt to disrupt the USSR, through penetrations in Ukraine, the agency turned to Nazi-affiliated nationalists, including “Tireless in his efforts on behalf of Ukrainian nationalism, Lebed remained one of the agency’s oldest contacts until his death in 1998.”

The Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act resulted in more than 8 million documents being declassified, but the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) admits, “Yet even more records are still hidden.”

In 2007, the OSI had waived more than 23,000 pages, but as of this date is keeping secret over 18,000 pages, allegedly to protect the “ongoing investigations (going on for decades) and prosecutions.” [Let's see, the war ended 66 years ago, anyone who is being investigated is either deceased or over 85 years of age. Why would they need to keep secret almost half the records?]

Mysteriously, the next day (12/11), the December 10 article is rewritten by Randy Herschaft and titled Report details ties between US and ex-Nazis, but this version fails to mention the OSI is keeping secret over 18,000 pages “to protect ongoing investigations and prosecutions” of war criminals who are on their death bed.

The 12/11 report expands on the postwar efforts by U.S. intelligence officials efforts (that George Little denies) to throw the Nazi hunters off the trail:

“You can make the argument the CIA never should have gone near this guy (Lebed) because of his past,” said Norman J.W. Goda of the University of Florida, who wrote the report with Richard Breitman of American University in Washington. But Goda said the CIA found the relationship to be so valuable for getting information into and out of the Soviet Union that “the relationship couldn’t be sacrificed.” “This was somebody that was very, very useful and remained so for the entire Cold War,” he added.

Another part of the report addresses the story of Otto Von Bolschwing, an associate of Adolf Eichmann, who was instrumental in drawing up plans for ridding Germany of the Jews. [5]

Below is an excerpt by Christopher Simpson about Otto Von Bolschwing from Simpson’s Blowback America’s recruitment of Nazis, and its disastrous effect on our domestic and foreign policy, Page 252:

“The story of U.S. intelligence relations with criminals such as Brunner is of necessity fragmentary, for both the CIA and Brunner himself have taken extensive measures to keep such affairs hidden. It is clear, however, that Brunner was not an exception to the rule who managed to ingratiate himself with the Americans through guile or through an oversight. There is, in fact, at least one other known case of U.S. recruitment: Baron Otto von Bolschwing, an SS veteran of Adolf Eichmann’s “Jewish Affairs” office, the elite committee that served as the central administrative apparatus of the Nazis’ campaign to exterminate the Jews.”

Notice he worked in Eichmann’s elite “Jewish Affairs” office, not in the Third Reich’s elite “Soviet Affairs” office.

“Von Bolschwing, deeply involved in intelligence work, and in the persecution of innocent people for most of his adult life, was a supreme opportunist who succeeded in traversing the whole evolution of U.S. policy toward Nazi criminals.

He profited during the war from the Nazi confiscation of Jewish property, then later from the defeat of Nazi Germany itself. Von Bolschwing enlisted as a CIC informer for the Americans in the spring of 1945.

Von Bolschwing joined the Nazi party at the age of twenty-three, and in the years leading up to 1939, he was a leading Nazi intelligence agent in the Middle East, where he worked undercover as an importer in Jerusalem.

One of his first brushes with Nazi espionage work, according to captured SS records, was a role in creating a covert agreement between the Nazis and Fieval Polkes, a commander of the militant Zionist organization Haganah, whom Von Bolschwing had met through business associates in the Mideast. [Interesting]

Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run recruiting and training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany. These young people, as well as certain other Jews driven out of Germany by the Nazis, were encouraged to emigrate to Palestine. Polkes and the Haganah, in return, agreed to provide the SS with intelligence about British affairs in Palestine.

Captured German records claim that Polkes believed the increasingly brutal Nazi persecution of the Jews could be turned to Zionist advantage–at least temporarily–by compelling Jewish immigration to Palestine, and that the Haganah commander’s sole source of income, moreover, was secret funds from the SS.” [End of Excerpt]

Consider another reason the CIA created a “safe haven” for Nazis.

Von Bolschwing, it is reasonable to assume, had access to the secret memorandum written on June 21, 1933, from the German Zionist Federation to the Nazis, which stated in part: “All German Jewish organizations, it was declared, should be dominated by the Zionist spirit.” In 1941, the “Stern Gang,” among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization (NMO) in Palestine:

The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionism activity is of the opinion that: the NMO in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on Germany’s side. The Iron Wall, London 1984, pp.195-197, The Wall Street Journal December 2, 1976

“Concentration” weren’t the only camps set up by Hitler and the Gestapo. During the 1930s, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. The Transfer Agreement between Hitler’s Germany and international Zionism, implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII, allowed German Jews to emigrate to Palestine. [6]

As an Eichmann insider in the “Jewish Affairs” office, Von Bolschwing could have had access to other secret memoranda that would explain why the jew-hating Nazis were making deals with a commander of the militant Zionist organization Haganah that allowed Jews to leave for Palestine instead of being gassed in a concentration camp.

Providing a “safe haven” for Von Bolschwing and Lebed was a small price to pay to prevent the insiders at the “Jewish Affairs” office from telling the world the Final Solution wasn’t about killing Jews but was The Key to the Secret of the Universe.

Katherine Smith PhD, mandrell201@gmail.com

Endnotes:
[1] Some of the most important events in the twentieth century took years to accomplish, while others took only minutes. Twentieth century history is made up of both the large and the small events that shaped it, however Jennifer Rosenberg’s 20th Century History Guide does not include the creation of the State of Israel.

Designed for students, “Events That Changed the World in the Twentieth Century”, Edited by Frank W. Thackeray and John E. Findling is a unique resource that offers detailed descriptions and expert analysis of the 20th century’s most important events: World War I, the Russian Revolution, the Rise of Fascism, the Great Depression, World War II, the Cold War, the Chinese Revolution, the end of Colonialism and the Rise of the Third World, European unification, and the collapse of the Soviet union. The creation of the State of Israel is not listed as an Events That Changed the World in the Twentieth Century.

In response to an inquiry from a Vassar College student publication, B.W. Van Norden wrote his opinion of “The Ten Most Important People of the 20th Century.”

His criteria for inclusion were how many people were influenced, and to how great an extent, by the event(s) associated with this person and would the event(s) associated with this person not have occurred, or would they have happened in a significantly different way, had this person not existed? Adolph Hitler: WWII and the Holocaust are central events of this century. B.W does not consider the creation of the State of Israel a central event of this century.

[2] Part 1: The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened
Part 2: World War I, II: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened
Part 3: Adolph Hitler: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened
Part 4: How did Hitler lose the war: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened
Part 5: The War to End All Wars: Providence, Pointless Tragedy or What Really Happened
Part 6: Adolph Hitler: War Hero, Street Cleaner, Prostitute or Secret Agent: A Psychohistory Analysis

[3] There are three prequels to this article. The first was released July 14, 2010, J. D. Salinger ­ With Love and Squalor, For Esmé, the second December 11, The CIA created ’safe haven’ for Nazis and Jews and the third December 17, Baron Otto Von Bolschwing, SS Veteran of Eichmann’s “Jewish Affairs”.

As they say, when you are “over the target,” you receive the flak. Websites that expressly said it was being published, inexplicably changed their mind because subsequently it “disappeared” not unlike the story of The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happened in 2010 Lew Rockwell and Judi McLeod (Canada Free Press)

July 25, 2010, Katherine Smith received the following email from Llewellyn Harrison Rockwell, Jr. (http://www.lewrockwell.com): Dear “Ms. Smith”, thanks so much; I had seen the Salinger piece (an informed opinion piece that connects WW1, WW2, Adolph Hitler and the Holocaust to The Modern State of Israel and The Key to the Secret of the Universe), liked it but was worried he could not get enough traffic for it, “let me rethink. And send me more! Lew”

Jul 25, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Lew Rockwell to mandrell2010
Subject: JFK (and J.D. Salinger)
Dear “Ms. Smith”, thanks so much; I had seen the J. D. Salinger – With Love and Squalor, For Esmé, liked it, but worried I could not get enough traffic for it. but let me rethink. And send me more!

Dec 11, 2010 at 8:47 AM Katherine Smith to Lew Rockwell

Subject: Submission: Updated Salinger article that Lew liked – The CIA created ’safe haven’ for Nazis and Jews

“Lew, Have you seen the latest version of the Salinger article? The CIA created ’safe haven’ for Nazis and Jews.”

It’s obviously ‘over the target,’ otherwise websites would not be removing it; after they published and/or said they wanted to publish the piece.

Sort of like you when you removed http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/1961-speech-that-got-jfk-killed.html after it was on your site for 30 days. Recall our last conversation where you said you would get back to me and let me know whatreallyhappened.

I would be very interested in knowing why you decided not to post the original Salinger article and/or why you are not posting the new one (now much improved thanks to the NY Times).

Your original emails are below and at 2010 Lew Rockwell and Judi McLeod (Canada Free Press). If I don’t hear from you I will assume it’s ok for me to publish an article about our email exchange and your mysterious change of position. This will be hard for the public to grasp since you were brave enough to publish Thomas DiLorenzo on Lincoln, our beloved president that was a mass murderer.

url of the latest, assuming it is still available, http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.
php/2010/12/11/the-cia-created-safe-haven-for-nazis-and

Jul 14, 2010
4:12:38 PM Victor Thorn (WING TV) to Katherine Smith, Subject: Re: Submissions: J. D. Salinger – With Love and Squalor, For Esmé

“Katherine, Yes, I’ve read your material with great interest, and am certain we could do something in the future to get even more attention for your writings. I’m very intrigued by what you’re producing. Best wishes, and by all means, let’s keep in contact. Victor Thorn, WING TV” [Never published at WING TV]

Jul 14, 2010
11:27 AM Dr. A. True Ott to Katherine Smith, Subject: RE: Submissions: J. D. Salinger – With Love and Squalor, For Esmé

“Could I post this on my website, please? Good piece.” Dr. A. True Ott [Never published on True Ott's site]

Dr. A. True Ott, PhD, ND has been researching and commenting on hidden facts (The Story Behind the Story), overlooked and often purposefully ignored by the mainstream media for over 20 years.

More on the story of the Prequels at 2010 Lew Rockwell and Judi McLeod (Canada Free Press)

[4] November 13: A report the Justice Department has been trying to hide for the past four years offers the most detailed account yet of the CIA’s efforts to protect known Nazi war criminals in the United States. Eric Lichtblau, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14nazis.html?_r=1

[5] Doctor Kubovy, from the Tel Aviv “Documentation Center”, admitted in 1960 “There is no document signed by Hitler, Himmler or Heydrich which speaks of exterminating the Jews… and in 1981, Walter Laqueur, author of The terrible secret, admitted: “Until now, we have never found Hitler’s order to destroy the European Jewish community, and in all probability the order was never given.” There is no order because Hitler used the term Entfernung of the Jews ­ removal or expulsion.

[6] When Lenni Brenner’s, 51 Documents: Zionism Collaboration with the Nazis was published the Pro-Zionist British Jewish central organization wanted Amazon to issue a warning to their customers, “We have urged Amazon to acknowledge on the site that this book is of a dangerous and controversial nature.”

Brenner’s introduction:

The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and others are unaware of the interaction between Zionism, Hitler and Mussolini.

What happened to the Jews is constantly utilized in Zionist propaganda as justification for the creation of the Israeli state, the silver lining around the dark cloud of desolation.

[Reply]

Sunil Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:14 am

How many 100’s of millions of Hindus, Sikhs, Jain and Budhists have died to crave out Islamic states of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan out of India? You make it look like Muslims are victims BUT the fact is they have used the sword to oppress so many more people around the world.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

muslims were killed more.only on 6th nov 1947 250000 residents of jammu were buchered by rss and raja of jammu and kshmir.

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

- muslim solidarity more important than being an Indian.
when does your history start. – forgot armenian masaccare, indoneisa & east timor.

Harpreet Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 am

@ram autur or whosoever you are

I doubt anyone will even bother to read your borrowed basically cut copy and paste peiace of ****. Give your own views if you must otherwise this is not a forum for you.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:25 pm

harpreet they are very informative not propaganda material.carry truth.

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:40 am

@Rajeev

All of you supported the attacks on Iraq and Afghnistan for 9/11….unfortunately 3500 innocent people died….these nincumpoops have killed almost 1/2 million Iraqis and Afghanis in revenge…What do you think the price of 1/2 million dead innocent civivlians is?

[Reply]

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:49 am

@Azhar hussain ,what role did your country play WHEN AFGANISTAN WAS POUNDED WITH CRUISE MISSILES, did they not GO OUT OF ITS WAY TO HELP AMERICA and how about now , WHERE FROM THE DRONES ARE TAKING OFF to pound NORTH WAZIRISTAN ,AND WHERE FROM THE SUPPLIES TO THE US TROOPS ARE GOING THROUGH ,not through TEHRAN IS IT. not from FORT WILLIAM in calcutta

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:57 am

Shan

Don’t jump from one statement to another…answer to my comments and then I comment on yours

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:19 am

@Azhar hussain , I AM HOLDING THE MIRROR , THE MIRROR IS DOING ITS JOB. India in unequivocal language OPPOSED the IRAQ INVASION and said so in UN GEN assembly speech. All the people who enjoy the fruits of MODERN SCIENTIFIC AGE and hate the thought of going back to year HIZRA ONE, who beleives women should not be treated as a chattel and their noses chopped off , wholeheartedly supported kicking taliban out.for your information FRANCE, GERMANY and KOFI ANNAN said IRAQ WAR WAS ILLEGAL.

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:36 am

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/iraq/

As far as fruits of Modern Scientific are is concerned there are more than 50 Muslim nations and majority of them with different capacity are also progressing. If you compared your country and I am assuming with your typical argument that you are an Indian, then more people In Muslim country live a comforable lives that yours. I challenge you to prove me otherwise>

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:54 am

@Azhar hussain, I chaleenge you to provide a name of ONE , just ONE NOBEL LAUREATTE
from ONE MUSLIM COUNTRY. As you aware Ahmediyas are not considered Muslims , because they incorporate Lord Krishna in their beleif, and they think Muhammed is NOT the last prophet. As to higher standard of living , TAKE OIL OUT , they will be living in ADAM’S AGE. As to your country Pakistan , and Bangladesh WHY ARE THEY A BASKET CASE , and if that affluent why BANGLADESH RECEIVED ONE BILLION DOLLAR AID FROM INDIA THIS YEAR , WHY TERRORISTAN IS PERPETUALLY DEPENDENT ON AMERICAN HANDOUTS.

Proud Indian Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:55 am

To : Azhar Hussain. You need to understand a simple fact that no one can and should be able to manipulate you unless you’re willing. Muslims all around the world are one highly aggitated community. One cartoon and all gets fired up. One quran book buring and muslim around the world gets fired up. Why? Why is this community so sensitive about small issues? Do you realize that it’s this mindless response that creates interest in those powers who know how to manipulate it to their advantage. e.g. Saudi – Iraq, Iraq – Iran and many majority muslim countries in Africa they fight internally on the name of Islam, which I believe is wrong. There is no Islam involved, it’s their wasted interest in power. But because majority of muslims follow the hurd or pack mentalily, they do not think as individual and hence get carried away way too quickly. Second thing is brutality built in Islam or sold by mullahs in the name in Islam. No religion should ever advocate killing. Sadly lots of references in quran are made for killing humans. This article is a complete misrepresentation of the real issue. Muslims must take the blame. It’s those hungry, uneducated , misguided poor people who carry the flag of Islam and promote Islamic terror. Educated and thoughful muslims all around the world must work extremely hard to stop that, show tolerance , be moderate , recognize and honour other religions and their needs. Isolate and expel those muslims who support terror. At the end of the day a religion must promote peace and if it’s not doing that there is an issue and you must accept it. Faster you accept it faster you will be able to fix it and enjoy peaceful and prosperous life.

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:19 am

Oh yes take Oil out, oil is their resources and they are using it well. That is why you guys folking in those countries begging for jobs, check the Mideast embassies in Delhi and see for your self. Now lets take oil out, go to Malaysia; Indonesia; Morocco and Turkey. Google pe Capita earning of the Muslim countries and you will know. As far as taking OIL OUT and living in Adam’s Age goes, if that is the case millions of your fellow countymen will be living on $1 a day. But alas they are livng very good life because of Muslims generosity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Out of 194 nations count how many Muslim countries above India and then tell me what is the difference in standard of living and where you guys stand. 12 countries below you guys, India $3600 per Capita and Somalia $600 (lowest among the Muslim world).

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:35 am

@Shan

Count how many Hindu Nobel Prize winners and Muslim ones. If a Jew or a Christian asked me I would really agree that we have pathetic record in research but you Indian asking me is laughable at best.

Count for yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:49 am

@Azhar hussain , YOUR GODFATHER AND MASTER CHINA’S per capita GDP is below gabon and gambia, TURKEY IS WILLINGTO SELL ITS SOUL TO GET INTO EUROPEAN UNION, but it is a CHRISTIAN CLUB and won’t be allowed in , but still Turkey begs to get in , so much for advancement. Morocco Tunisia totally dependent on WHITE RACE tourism, Egypt receives FIVE BILLION Dollar aid from USA. When did you buy a fridge made in Egypt. Malaysia’s OIL GOES STRAIGHT TO JAPAN , in return Japanese investment has produced higher standard of living. Just name ONE company of the stature of INFOSYS , WIPRO, TCS.
HOW MANY RESEARCH LABS HAVE US GIANTS opened in your higher standard of living islamic countries , zilch. India has few inventions to be proud of the anti aids drug , HEPB vaccine , PATENT LAPSEDSEVERAL DRUGS which one can come across in each and every hospital of europe and USA. NANO car , JUST ONE INVENTION FROM ANY ISLAMIC COUNTRY WILL DO. Also why do pakistani children with heart valve or hole in the heart COME TO INDIA FOR TREATMENT , WHY NOT SOME ISLAMIC COUNTRY LIKE MALAYSIA

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:14 am

@Azhar hussain , Sorry to throw you in mental despair,
Muslim — nobel peace prize to gramin bank (yes it was given to the bank , collected by its founder Mohd Yunus)
Muslim Nobel Peace prize Shirin Abidi for her fight AGAINST SHARIA COMPLIANT TORTURE OF WOMEN
iNDIAN—nobel in Literature R.N Tagore
Indian — Nobel in Physics Sir CV Raman for Raman Spectroscopy , for explaining why oceans are blue and proving all the porkys of every religion INCLUDING ISLAM wrong
Indian—Nobel In Economics Prof A. Sen
Expatriate Indian Nobel in Chemistry Har Govind Khorana for synthesising DNA nucleotide
Expatriate India Nobel in Physics , CV chandrasekhar for discovering Black Holes
Expatriate Indian Nobel in Chemistry Prof ramakrishnan for synthesis of RIBOSOME
There are only TWO kinds of particles in this UNIVERSE , fermion and BOSON , boson is named after National professor Late S.N Bose
There are about twenty FELLOW OF ROYAL SOCIETY which is just next to Nobel prize.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 am

Azhhar/Shan

There are other Indian citizens who won Nobel prize – Ron Ross and Mother Teresa; both
were Indian citizens.
VS Naipaul how on a nobel prize,, although not an Indian citizen, is of Indian ancestry.

There are many cutting edge Indian scientists in US, I am willing to bet six nobel prixzes for Indian scientists from US and from India in the next ten years. Karmarkar (of Karmarkar algorithms), Abhayankar (abhayankar surface), Raghuram Rajan, Thomas Kaliath, Ajit Varkey, Rajaraman, George Sudarshan, SR Varadan etc are in the pipeline.

Harpreet Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:27 am

@ Binoy there are more… CV Raman (Physics), Ravinder Nath Tagore ( Literature), Dr. Khurana (Biochemistry) as well.

Do not grant this narrow minded donkey tied with a 1400 yr old pole any respect. He is from failed state being ruled by a rogue army and there brains are so badly conditioned in medressas you can not put sense into their heads. They have lost all respect and nothing good is happening in their country so they take out their frustration in Indian papers..

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:27 am

@binoy, I have come across two names?karmarkar?Chandravarkar another ?Sen (is it our Bobby?) in a book by Roger Penrose on Physics in the chapter of String Theory , while flicking through the pages in Local library, perhaps Bobby can throw some light.

Sen Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 am

Which medressha you went to ?

Ashish Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 1:00 am

@Shan,
you mean Prof Asoke Sen of Harish Chandra Institute in Allahabad.

shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 3:03 am

@Ashish, I may make a journey to look into the book by Roger Penrose , and then give you the precise name, it should come in two ticks to Bobby as it is subject. By the way did you see me post addressed to you in the Zia’s earlier blog , where i asked for your views on the Arushi murder case. Happy New year to you and your family, shan.

Ashish Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:06 am

@Shan,
It IS Prof Ashoke Sen FRS; no other Sen in String theory- no one as illustrious – very few in the world who matches his stature.
No I did not see yr query on Arushi murder case. I have piles of work on office front now- so, limiting my visits here.

shan Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

@Ashish, researching on Prof Sen, I came across or rather discovered this information . (I haven’t been able to go the library yet, as I went to the theatres to watch The Invisible Man by H.G.Wells.) Apparently out of eighty plus odd of SS Bhatnagar award recepients , Seventeen are from your and mine surname originating place. which is incredible , as they say DOWN BUT NOT OUT. This is also the irony , cutting edge research in theoretical physics , yet cannot take on mercedes or BMW, though I have no doubt there is no dearth of talent , but as i have expressed before , it is hardly conceivable these talent can get an expression with C.K Birla’s Hindustan Motors.

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

that’s the problem with religion of peace, if there is no more kafirs, start killing their own muslims
shia killing sunni, sunni killing shia , shia & sunni killing gay & lesbian muslims. wahabi killing shia & sunni for not having long beard & note pure muslims.

Indian_Abroad Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:41 am

There is no twisted logic.

Muslims invaded India which was from Afghanistan to Burma.

Indians never punished them, but tried to live with them and teach them lessons if tolerance.

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Rohit Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:47 am

What twisted logic is that?

How can “Muslims” invade India?

There were different ethinc groups who invaded the present day India. Starting from the Aryans from Central Asia during Vedic times, then you had the Greeks and Persians, later the same Central Asian tribes that invaded India 2000 years ago, invaded India again but this time they were muslims.

Whats the difference between the two invasions except that it happened 2000 years later?

Too much RSS propaganda will take you into fantasy world where you will just sound like a lunatic.

@Binoy

Its not that simple…Islam is in danger…..They had a valid point then i.e to kick the Soviets behind from Afghanistan and they still have a valid point now…to kick the NATO and Uncle Sam’s forces out. As far as we i.e the rest of Muslims are concerned majority of them do not support blantant killing of the innocent people in the form of terrorist attacks…But when are the non-Muslims going to say enough is enough that we have killed humdreds of Thoudands more in Iraq and Afghnistan to avenge the death of 3500 innocent people in 9/11…We dont see that from non-muslims either and yet every Tom, Dick and Harry and of late every Patel, Kumar and Singh asking us to say sorry for 9/11

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Ayaudan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:11 am

Azhar…..stop bringing Patel, Kumar, Singh….nowhere did these guyz supported US for Iraq or Afghanistan. It is because of an irresponsible state of Pakistan that the afghans and other muslims are being beaten and these countries like Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi welcome US and NATO for their selfish gains.

Do you see kumars, Patels and singhs there. Stop the double standard and change your mind set.

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Snigdha Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:06 am

Azhar,

I lot of non-Muslims have raised their voices against the invasion of Iraq as well as to a degree Afghanistan. In fact, many Americans had and have opposed the attack on Iraq. Just because you happen to be Muslim you do not have to apologize for 9/11.

Please be aware that there are a lot of non-Muslims around the world who do not conflate all Muslims with terrorists. No country, region, religion, gender, class have a corner on terrorism. Ultimately all wars are a reflection of power struggles for controlling wealth and sources of wealth. This has been human history. Who know many many religions, how many peoples have come and gone on the planet driven to extinction by more powerful groups and how many times the maps of countries have been re-drawn. Yet we get taken in by the rhetoric of fear and go to war. Yesterday it was democracy in danger from communism,today it is Islam in danger for every other religion, tomorrow it will be some other belief system or ideology, tomorrow it will be something else. Like suicidal lemmings we get taken in by those who instill fear and hatred and continue the cycle. Why d we let others do our thinking and feeling for us?

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Harpreet Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:15 am

“we i.e the rest of Muslims are concerned majority of them do not support blantant killing of the innocent people in the form of terrorist attacks ”

Whom are you befooling ? Do you really think this brings any consolation to anyone ?

Since worldwar II 11 million muslims have died in the conficts all over the world and out of 11 million 10 million have been killed by muslims themselves. OK… Just keep your wisdom to yourself.

First you deny.. then you ask for evidence … then you justify….and in the end you claim that “majority of people do not support violent jehadis” but where does this majority exist ? IN other religions ???

There are 57 mulsims countries in the world sitting over 70% of oil reserves and still I see them always blaming others. This world is sick and tired of you guys.

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US made mistakes in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and now china is doing the same.

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shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:32 am

Fully agree with the above comment.With US , there is freedom to criticise , to throw govts out of power , with china , the TIBETANS HAVE RELY ON THEIR TEARS AND PRAYERS, till the conscience of the rest of unbeleivers humanity wakes up.

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Zia’s logic is always based on three assumptions-
1. Muslims are innocent lambs.
2. Non-muslims are cunning and evil.
3. Non-muslims make muslims do all the terror acts.

Based on these assumptions, Zia always proves what he wants.

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shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:43 am

@Rajeev, it is not zia , he is articulating 99% of the QUOM who are in that PERPETUAL STATE OF DENIAL , would OBFUSCATE, bury the head in the sand, sand which is all around them.

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prashant saxena Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:29 am

Mistakes were made, but does that justify the global terror we are witnessing today?
All muslims may not be terrorists but most terrorists are Muslim.
Does no innocent Muslim know about any terrorists? Does no one in the community know who recruits and shelters these criminals? If they do why dont they come forward?
If hey don’t come forward, what is wrong with labeling the whole community as terrorist sympathizers?

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brahamannj Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 9:28 am

Others who are opposing to Zia’s article likely to have the following assumptions:

1. Attack muslims and muslim ideology no matter what with no exceptions. Hate muslims and their religion without even trying to understand …

Look at these vedio clips for a change:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsIgSe9Fg9c

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=7M0cWy3ariU&playnext=1&list=PL6AF783757C87EE26&index=21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYzzPlWk7R0&feature=related

2. Constantly keep labeling muslims as terrorists, without even thinking and reasoning who is the real hand behind. As long as my ideology is not attacked, I’ll conveniently go with the anti-islamic phobia which goes in my favor.

3. Who are the “real” terrorists in Palestine, Iraq, Bosnia and Kashmir? You cannot simply just occupy/bomb others land and control people’s lives and then if they resist, call them terrorists. Let’s get real, what is the actual definition of a terrorist? Can an international body sit and define that independently and then may be start using this label? WHO IS TWISTING LOGIC

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shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:54 pm

@Brahamaanj, you are not merely twisting, you are CONFUSING the issue. With palestine , the fellow quom in the neighbourhood screwed the palestanians for good. They (Jordan,Syria, Egypt)thought they can gang up and kick the s h i t out of the jews WITH the YOM KIPPUR WAR, the palestanians are paying the price for having LOST the war ,if they tried Gandhian method , incredible it may sound but the politics of 1950 was such palestanians would have had a state of their own. But they wanted to kick the jews out , THOUGH HARAM AL SHEIKH IS BUILT ON A DESTROYED JEWISH TEMPLE(Temple of Mount) and did not want to stay side by side with jews.
Iraq, because SUNNIS have been dislodged from POWER due to ELECTORAL MATHEMATICS, they want to reclaim the THRONE by terror tactics.With Bosnia IT WAS A CIVIL WAR IN FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, do not forget CROATS WERE ALSO FIGHTING WITH SERBS.
With Kashmir ONLY TERRORIST ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PAID BY ISI TO CROSS THE BORDER AND CARRY OUT HEINOUS ACTS. In fact recent report shows Let/ISI SPENT 40 lakhs to FORMENT TROUBLE BY INCITING THE LOCALS TO RESORT TO STONE PELTING.

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President Obama and other Western leaders are repeatedly asking the Muslims to stop “terrorism” so that they can call off their “war on terrorism”.

There is lot of hypocrisy on this newly popularised term “terrorism”. The Western war on terrorism is nothing but a war on Muslims — plain and simple.

This war is nothing but a zionist conspiracy carried out by the Western Christian leadership at the behest of Jews.

This is because all the Western Christian countries are controlled by the Jews with the help of their money power, media and Christian stooges.

Even a child knows it.

Muslims refused to be fooled: It is the American Jews, who control that country and managed Obama election. It is they who managed to make him utter sweet words to Muslims at Cairo and elsewhere.

But the Muslims refused to be fooled. The Jewish engineered war on Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq resulted in disastrous defeat of US.

Obama later tried to fool the Muslims on Palestine. But here also he failed because the zionist Jews are not prepared to budge even an inch on Palestine.

Any amount of his pouring milk to the serpent is no use. Serpent will continue to bite Obama.

China on top of world: Western Christian leaders, led by the US which is controlled by its 2% Jews, are defeated in their war on terror. The Jews with their monopoly over the media, have launched a hurricane of Islamophobia. But nothing is working.

Rise of Iran: The disgusted Jews got Obama defeated in the recent Congressional elections. Nor are they giving any opportunity for him to succeed in Palestine.

China has already come on the top of the world and USA is getting weakened. With the defeat in Afghanistan, USA is preparing to pack up.

Iran is fast becoming a nuclear power and its political power has expanded with Iraq coming under its sway. Turkey turning against West is another big defeat for the West.

If the Western Christian rulers, who are still in the grip of Jews, are tired of their war on terror, the only way-out is to call halt to Islamophobia.

The zionists, repeatedly getting disappointed with the Western Christian rulers, are naturally furious. This is one of the causes for the economic decline of USA and also UK. And perhaps EU.

Our fear is zionists are determined to take revenge on the whole of West if it does not come out in full support of Israel — which means all-out war on Iran.

But the “Jews of India” are not reading the writings on the wall. It is still holding on to the tail of USA (and Jews) without realising that it is a sinking ship.

China has expanded his influence all over the world. Within an year it is going to be the world’s no.1 economic power.

Anti-zionist front takes shape: China, Iran, Russia together with all the Muslim and African countries — even Latin America — are fast coming together to become the world’s strongest bloc. The Blacks of Africa — the victims of White racism, will never go with the West. Already China has established full influence on all the African countries.

Germany, the worst victim of the zionists, is fast coming up. Already it is the richest in Europe.

What Bahujans can do: The Jews and the “Jews of India” are gradually getting totally isolated.

Bahujan leaders of India belonging to the SC/ST/BCs and Muslims must wake up and prepare themselves to confront the fast-moving global changes.

That is why we have been repeatedly telling that internally we have no hope but the fast-moving international developments are very much in our favour.

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ONE MUSLIM COUNTRY. As you aware Ahmediyas are not considered Muslims

THERE ARE ANY.NOBEL PRICE NOT GIVEN TO TOLOSTOY.WHO WAS BIGGEST PHILOSHOPER OF HIS TIME.jean pal satre refused the nobel calling this indirect bribe.many russian who abused lenin got this price.now u write anything stupid about about musslims u will this bribe.after 1947 nobody from india got this price.tell me how many research institute india has what is its achievent.nation goes with character not with money of few educated.people go to vaishnav devi to see a penis erected through refrigeration principles.
our country has become the country of frauds supportedby goverment.our elders are greedy for money.even generals are caught in fraud.hindu religion is nothing but fraud.two sadhus have put dumergible pump in my backward city.water coming from down was declared as GANGA MAYIA PRAKAT O GAYEE.DMS WIFE MAGISTRATE WIFE AND THE BHANGEES COULD BE SEEN TAKING DIP IN THAT WATER.
SAUDIA ARABIA HAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST RESEARCH UNIVERSITY IN THE WORLD.
in riyaad they are making girls school for 15billion dollar.best teaching staff and atmosphere for education will be provided there for 50000 girls will be provided there.u morones cry saudi mulla.
in 1970 they establishe jubail industrial complex by spending 80 billion dollars,which closed half the lubricant companies of europe.indian goverment companies could not furnish even guarantee bonds for that project.there is no enough water in mumbai or delhi.nobdy can beat us in boasting.

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Terrorism and oppression has always been a part of Islam and the west just made use of that. The Koran is quite clear on terror and the use of it against non-muslims.

Verses from the Koran:

VIII/12: When thy Lord inspired the angels (saying:) I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

Here one can clearly see that the Quran is openly saying to the muslims to give a torturous death to those who are non-believers of the Islamic faith.

XCVIII/6: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the people of the Scripture and idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

From the above passage you can clearly see that according to Mohammed, Allah has reserved a special place for non- mulsims–HELL!

IX/5: Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor- due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

This verse tells us that muslims are free to convert non-muslims by force and brutality. If unsuccessful in doing so, they are free to kill.

IX/73: Oh Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end.

LXIX/30-37: (It will be said)Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in Allah the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat.

Here we get a description of how to punish Non Muslims. This is in practice even today in Islamic countries. In fact, the Sikh Gurus and their families were tortured by muslims as prescribed in the Quran. For example, Sikh guru Tegh Bahadur on refusing to accept Islam, was brought to the prison in a cage like he was a wild animal. Three of his disciples were murdered in front of him. One of them was Bhai Mati Das. He was sawed alive. The other was wrapped up in cotton and burnt alive. Bhai Dyala, the third one, was boiled alive. Guru Tegh Bahadur himself was brutally tortured and killed in a similar fashion. We see further support of these types of torments in the verses below.

XLIV/43-50: LO! the tree of Zaqqum (The tree that grows in the heart of hell bearing fruits like devil’s heads) – the food of the sinner. Like molten brass, it seetheth in their bellies as the seething of boiling water. (And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell, then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water. Saying: TASTE! LO! thou wast forsooth the mighty, the noble! Lo! this is that whereof ye used to doubt.

IX/123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

IV/144: O Ye who believe! choose not disbelievers for your friends in place of believers. Would you give Allah a clear warrant against you ?

This verse clarifies the fact that a true Muslim can never be a friend of a person of another faith. People who believe otherwise are under delusion.

IX/29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

This verse in Quran gave birth to the law that all non muslims living in an Islamic state have to pay the jiziya or poll tax for the privilege of being there. These people are called zimmis and are allowed to live and work in the Islamic lands under the following 20 disabilities: (one has to wonder if apartheid was derived from this)

1. They are not to build any new places of worship.
2. They are not to repair any old places of worship which have been destroyed by the muslims.
3. They are not to prevent muslim travellers from staying in their places of worship.
4. They are to entertain for 3 days any Muslim who wants to stay in their homes and for a longer period if the muslim falls ill.
5. They are not to harbor any hostility or give aid and comfort to hostile elements.
6. They are not to prevent any one of them from getting converted to Islam.
7. They have to show respect to every Muslim.
8. They have to allow Muslims to participate in their private meetings.
9. They are not to dress like muslims.
10. They are not to name themselves with Muslim names.
11. They are not to ride on horses with saddle and bridle.
12. They are not to possess arms.
13. They are not to wear signet or seals on their fingers.
14. They are not to sell or drink liquor openly
15. They are to wear a distinctive dress which shows their inferior status and separates them from Muslims.
16. They are not to propagate their custom and usages among the muslims.
17. They are not to build their houses in the neighbourhood of muslims.
18. They are not to bring their dead near the graveyards of the muslims.
19. They are not to observe their religious practices publicly or mourn their dead loudly.
20. They are not to buy muslim slaves.

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Jagtar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:42 am

Absolutly. This guy Azhar is abusing Hindustan times website ( Ithink It is their birthright – what is mine is mine what is yours that is also mine…..) here and I guarantee you no Pakistani paper will ever publish Indian’s comments like that. So much for their fairness.

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Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 7:56 pm

Jagtar

No one is abusing HT, I am just using HT and its forum to give you guys our side of the story. As far as Pakistan papers go, they are online if you care to go and debate with guys. Or is it your democratic government has blocked those forums just like you can’t see our TV NEWS channels.

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ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:24 pm

things are other way around practically brhmnsm is terrorism.u have shown this again and again.

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ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:15 pm

suni this rue face of hinduism or brhmnsm

Hindutva And The Dalit-Bahujans: Dangerous Portents
By Yoginder Sikand
http://www.countercurrents.org
23 February, 2004

Hindutva, the unique Indian form of Indian fascism, is the modern incarnation of Brahminism. Although it projects itself as the defender of the ‘Hindu’ community against imagined ‘enemies’, such as Muslims and Christians, it is actually premised on an unrelenting hostility towards the vast majority of the so-called ‘Hindus’ themselves-Dalits, Shudras and tribals. The very basis of what is today called Hinduism is the caste system, which is specifically geared to preserving and promoting ‘upper’ caste hegemony that is based on the systematic exploitation and oppression of the so-called ‘lower’ castes. Hindutva, therefore, is not to be characterized as ‘Hindu communalism’ as such, as it does not represent the interests of all so-called ‘Hindus’ as such. As numerous writers have pointed out, a more apt description of Hindutva is that it is the contemporary form of Brahminism. In other words, Hindutva may be defined as Brahminical fascism.
This being the case, Hindutva cannot be countered simply through pious appeals to ‘Hindu-Muslim unity’. The fatal mistake that secularists have consistently been making is to see Hindutva as simply ‘Hindu communalism’. Consequently, they have been trying, ineffectively, to combat it simply by invoking a common ethical impulse that they argue underlies the different religions. Since Hindutva represents the contemporary agenda of Brahminism, it poses an immense threat not just to the Muslims of the country, but equally, or perhaps even more so, to the vast majority of the so-called ‘Hindus’ themselves-the Dalits, Shudras and tribals, who, taken together, form more than 70 per cent of the country’s population as a whole-the Bahujan Samaj. Clearly, Hindutva aims at preserving and promoting ‘upper’ caste rule and ‘lower’ caste slavery, inspired by a vision that draws on the cruel laws that the Brahminical scriptures prescribe for the ‘lower’ castes. As Shamsul Islam rightly notes, the
Hindu Right aims at ‘denying [.] Dalits of all human rights’[1], and the same applies for its implications for other members of the Bahujan Samaj. The most effective way of countering Hindutva is, therefore, to mobilize these marginalized groups against the Hindutva forces by exposing the grave threats that the Hindutva agenda poses for them. In other words, highlighting the menacing implications of Hindutva for the Dalit-Bahujans is the surest way to combat Hindutva, for it is they who are today being so assiduously used by ‘upper’ caste forces as foot-soldiers in their pogroms against Muslims and Christians, thus threatening to drive the country to the brink of civil war. The Dalit-Bahujans account for the vast majority of the Indian population, and if they are able to see through the Brahminical designs behind the Hindutva project, Hindutva would die a natural death.
This booklet is a critique of Hindutva from a Dalit-Bahujan perspective. It focuses on what Hindutva means for the Dalit-Bahujans, showing how it is essentially geared to preserving and promoting ‘upper’ caste Hindu rule and suppressing the stirrings of revolt that are now becoming increasingly visible among the ‘low’ caste majority.

The Historical Roots of Hindutva

The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was established in 1925 by K.B.Hedgewar, a Maharashtrian Brahmin. Initially, almost all its members were Brahmins, and even today, its top level leaders are almost entirely from the ‘upper’ castes, particularly Brahmins. The RSS was founded at a time when Maharashtra was witnessing a powerful movement of revolt among the ‘lower’ castes against ‘upper’ caste tyranny led by such stalwarts as Mahatma Jotiba Phule and Dr. Ambedkar. The establishment of the RSS at this time was hardly coincidental. Rather, it is apparent that the rise of ‘lower’ caste consciousness and protest against ‘upper’ caste hegemony was a key factor in the setting up of the RSS. The spread of the RSS in other parts of the country can also be explained on similar lines. Feeling increasingly threatened by the growing awareness and militancy among the ‘lower’ castes, ‘upper’ caste leaders found in the ideology of Hindutva a convenient way to co-opt the ‘lower’ castes and to divert their wrath from their real oppressors (the ‘upper’ castes/classes) onto imagined enemies in the form of Muslims, Christians and communists. By appealing to the notion of an imagined ‘Hindu nation’ and ‘Hindu community’, Hindutva ideologues (almost all Brahmins) sought to deny the existence of internal caste and class contradictions among the so-called ‘Hindus’. This denial aimed at drawing the ‘lower’ castes behind the ‘upper’ castes, and to destroy ‘lower’ caste movements of protest against ‘upper’ caste hegemony. Accordingly, the plight of the ‘lower’ castes was sought to be explained away as a result of alleged Muslim or Christian ‘persecution’, while the ‘Hindu’ period of history was glorified as a ‘golden age’. In this rewriting of history, the oppression of the ‘lower’ castes that saw its genesis in the so-called ‘golden age’ was completely ignored. So, too, was the inconvenient fact that the oppression of the ‘lower’ castes is specifically mentioned and prescribed in all the Brahminical scriptures.
Yet, the projection of the notion of a united ‘Hindu nation’ was only at the level of rhetoric. In actual fact, the proponents of Hindutva sought to carefully preserve the exploitative caste-class system by conveniently remaining silent on it. And this continues to be the case till today. Not surprisingly, the Hindutvawadais have never taken up any militant struggles for the rights of the Dalits, for distribution of land to the poor, for the rights of workers and tribals and so on. Instead, they have consistently supported the interests of the capitalist-feudal-Brahminical elites. Not surprisingly, the core support-base of the Hindutva movement since its inception onwards has consisted of landlords, former rulers of princely states, industrialists, merchants, priests-’upper’ castes in general, all of whose interests are diametrically opposed to the Dalit-Bahujans’, and whose hegemony is based on their systematic subjugation.
That Hindutva fundamentally aims at the preservation of the Brahminical system, based as it is on the exploitation of the ‘lower’ caste majority, has been pointed out by numerous scholars. In his incisive study of the Hindutva phenomenon, titled Saffron Fascism, Shyam Chand, a Dalit scholar and activist who served for many years as member of the Haryana Legislative Assembly, quotes from a secret circular sent out by the RSS to its preachers. It clearly indicates the sinister Brahminical strategy of using the Dalit-Bahujans to attack the Muslims and Christians, while at the same time aiming to keep the Dalit-Bahujans under the permanent slavery of the ‘upper’ castes.
Excerpts from Secret Circular No.411 issued by the RSS:
[.] Scheduled Castes and Other Backward Classes are to be recruited to the party so as to increase the volunteers to fight against the Ambedkarites and Mussalmans.
Hindutva should be preached with a vengeance among physicians and pharmacists so that, with their help, time expired [sic.] and spurious medicines might be distributed amongst the Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Scheduled Tribes. The newborn infants of Shudras, Ati-Shudras, Mussalmans, Christians and the like should be crippled by administering injections to them. To this end, there should be a show of blood-donation camps.
Encouragement and instigation should be carried on [sic.] more vigorously so that the womenfolk of Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Christians live by prostitution.
Plans should be made more foolproof so that the people of the Scheduled Castes, Backward Classes, Musslamans and Christians, especially the Ambedkarites, become crippled by taking in [sic.] harmful eatables.
Special attention should be given to the students of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes so as to make them read the history written according to our dictates.
During riots the women of Mussalmans and Scheduled Castes should be gang-raped. Friends and acquaintances cannot be spared. The work should proceed on the Surat model.
Publication of writings against Mussalmans, Christians, Buddhists and Ambedkarites should be accelerated. Essays and writings should be published in such a way as to prove that Ashoka was opposed to the Aryans.
All literature opposed to Hindus and Brahmins are [sic.] to be destroyed. Dalits, Mussalmans, Christians and Ambedkarites should be searched out. Care should be taken to see that this literature do [sic.] not reach public places. Hindu literature is to apply [sic.] to the Backward Classes and Ambedkarites.
The demand by the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for filling in the backlog vacancies in services shall by no means be met. Watch should be kept to see that their demands for entry and promotion in government, non-government or semi-government institutions are to be rejected and their service records are destroyed with damaging reports.
Measures should be taken to make the prejudices amongst Scheduled Castes and Backward people more deep-rooted. To this end, help must be taken from saints and ascetics.
Attacks should be started with vigour against equality, preaching communists [sic.], Ambedkarites, Islamic teachers, Christian missionaries and neighbours [?].
Assaults should be made on Ambedkar’s statues with greater efforts.
Dalit and Muslim writers are to be recruited to the party and by them essays and literature opposed to the Dalits, Ambedkarites and Mussalmans written and preached [sic.]. Attention is to be paid to see that these writings are properly edited and preached [sic.].
Those opposed to Hindutva are to be murdered through false encounters. For this work the help of the police and semi-military [sic.] forces should always be taken.”[2]
*
In the face of this circular, no more evidence is needed to show what Hindutva actually bodes for the Dalit-Bahujans. It circular very clearly indicates that Hindutva aims essentially at preserving the oppression of the Dalit-Bahujans, in addition to the Muslims and Christians, on which the entire edifice of Brahminism stands.

The Dalit-Bahujans and Contemporary Hindutva

Today, the Hindutva movement is actively engaged in wooing the Dalit-Bahujans, threatened as the ‘upper caste/class elites are by the growing assertiveness of the ‘lower’ caste masses against ‘upper’ caste hegemony. In areas where the Dalit-Bahujan movement has not taken strong root Hindutva groups have been successful in bringing large numbers of Dalit-Bahujans into their fold. Copying the Christian missionaries, the RSS has set up a large number of schools in Dalit localities and tribal areas. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) regularly sends out so-called sadhus and priests to preach among the Dalits and tribals in order to incorporate them into the ‘Hindu’ fold and prevent their conversion to other religions. Fed on Hindutva propaganda, the Dalit-Bahujans are instigated to attack, rape and loot Muslims, and now Christians, in the name of defending ‘Hinduism’. This strategy was well exemplified in the case of the Babri Masjid affair, when, faced with the announcement of reservations in government services for the Backward Castes, the Hindutvawadis launched a murderous anti-Muslim campaign all over the country to scuttle the Mandal report by instigating Dalit-Bahujans to attack the Muslims, thus cleverly diverting their attention from the burning question of caste oppression and ‘upper’ caste hegemony. For the Hindutvawadis, the Dalit-Bahujans serve their classical role as servants of the ‘upper’ castes and foot soldiers to unleash murderous pogroms against Muslims. The most recent case is that of Gujarat, where Dalits and tribals were instigated by Hindutva forces to embark on a virtual genocide of Muslims in the state.
Through the process of Hinduisation that the Hindutvawadis are so carefully promoting among the Dalit-Bahujans, the Dalits and tribals achieve an illusory sense of upward social mobility (as ‘valiant’ Hindus), while the caste-class structure of oppression remains firmly intact. In fact, that is precisely the purpose behind the entire Hindutva project-to co-opt the Dalit-Bahujans, to destroy the movements for the assertion of their rights, and to quash their protest against the system of caste-class exploitation, by diverting their wrath from their actual oppressors (the ‘upper’ caste-class exploiters) onto carefully constructed ‘enemies’ in the form of Muslims, Christians, Naxalites, Communists and so on. At the same time as the Dalit-Bahujans are being actively recruited into the Hindutva movement, killings of Dalits and tribals by ‘upper’ castes continue to escalate, particularly in states where Hindutvawadis have acquired a strong hold. Many of those behind these killings are
known to be active Hindutvawadis themselves. This is no mere coincidence. Rather, it is a direct and logical outcome of the Hindutvawadi agenda itself. As Shamsul Islam perceptively notes, ‘The Hindu Right which is ruling India presently is totally unconcerned about these mounting atrocities against the ‘Untouchables’ [.] It should surprise nobody that the states where the maximum cases of caste atrocities are taking place are states where either the RSS/BJP have a substantial social base or are being ruled by them’.[3]
In order to win the Dalit-Bahujans to their fold, the Hindutvawadis, who fiercely opposed Dr. Ambedkar during his own lifetime, are now seeking to turn him into a harmless icon, projecting him as a great servant of Hinduism and an enemy of Islam. In the Hindutva appropriation of Ambedkar, Ambedkar’s radical critique of Hinduism is totally ignored. This sudden expression of love for Ambedkar is completely hypocritical and has, of course, nothing at all to do with any appreciation of Ambedkar’s own sharp denunciation of Hinduism. It owes entirely to the awareness of the growing importance of Ambedkar and his message among the Dalit-Bahujan masses. Hindutva doublespeak on Ambedkar comes out sharp and clear in a leaflet said to have been issued by the VHP’s Gujarat unit shortly after having used the Dalits to launch on a virtual genocide of Muslims in the state.

‘THE SECOND OPEN LETTER OF TRUE RAM SEVAKS’

“Let the Ambedkarite Harijans who oppose the Hindutva ideology understand. We will not allow them [to] mix with even the soil of Hindustan. Today, time is in our hands. Hindutva is the ideology of true Hindus [and] it never accepts the Harijans who are the offspring of the untouchable Ambedkar. The Ambedkarite Harijans, Bhangis, Tribals and the untouchable Shudra castes who believe in Ambedkar do not have any right to give speeches or criticize the Hindutva ideology in Hindustan, because as a dog raises its leg and urinates whenever there is a question or discussion related to the Hindutva ideology these Ambedkarites, Harijans, Bhangis,

[Reply]

Azhhar

No amount of rationalization is going to bring back your country- Pakistan – and your fellow Muslims into international acceptance and respect until and unless the radicals, fundamentalists, extremists or the monority of Muslims who are evil stop the acts of terrorism. So you can go on with your arguments, as they say here in US, until the cow comeshome.

The world recognizes India now as a leader in IT (information technology). The same worl despises Pakistan as theonly leader and innovator in another “IT” (international terrorism). Every Muslim terrorist has to go through Pakistan before he or she commits an act of terrorism.

We can get into reasons, rationalization, comparison, 3000 deaths vs 300,000 deaths — it does not have any relevance. It may make Mullahs crazy and in turm it my create more Jehadis. Believe me, your jehadism will only destroy you. Just look into your on country as to what is happening (even if it produces more Nobel Laurates than India and it has the most splendid systems in the world and it has better institutes thn IIt and IIM and IISc and BITS and AIIMS).

The three foundational peces of your country – politicians, army/isi, mullahs – have destroyed you. I hope and pray you come back. However, a people who negates its own heriitage and history, claiming Arab ancestry instead of one of the worlds oldest civilization and heritage, is bound to fail, because they become rudderless.

[Reply]

well said Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:03 am

very honestly and succintly said.

[Reply]

Ashish Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 9:22 am

Zia is a covert Jihadi practicing stealth Jihad

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:07 pm

The three foundational peces of your country – politicians, army/isi, mullahs – have destroyed you

it is only hindus who who robbed india not muslims.brhmnsm is terrorism.after organizing 600plus communal riots and planting bombs everywhere u want to show urslf.hegde brhmnsm is hate.as u are brhmn u are speaking nonsense.mualims are employing 20-25 milling indians their remittance is feeding india.

mullahs are most peace loving people.some bad are everywhere.but brhmnst are all cheaters violent and hate spewing corrupt people.

with pakistan ,main problem is that neo converts are originally brhmns.still carry their evils of cheating lying and looting.

what destroyed india.think about this.why u are worried about others.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:33 pm

ed on Manu’s law

Rishis – Born to

8. Vashistar – Urvasi

9. Naradar – Washer woman

10. Kadanasalliyar – Widow

11. Madankar – Cobbler woman

12. Mandaviyar – Frog

13. Kangaeyar – ***

15. Sounagar – Dog

16. Ganathar – Owl

17. Sugar – Paroot

18. Jambuvantar – Bear

19. Aswathaman – Horse

This is the greatness of the Hindu rishis and their births. I think the people of the Barbarian era would at least be more intelligent than our Dravidian people. The history of our forefathers and rishis is disgusting and demeaning. They are responsible for our Dravidian degradation and disgrace. Now let us pass on to other gods.

As per one Hindu mythology Mahavishnu and Parameswaran both males, fall in love with each other, cohabit and produce a male child which is being worshipped by the Hindu orthodox people even now, as Sastha or Iyappan, or Harihara Puthran.

Iyappa: Again it is stated clearly that Mahavishnu fell in love with another Brahma rishi called Naradar and produced not one child but 60 babies. 60 years of the Hindus from Prabava are named after the 60 children of Brahma.

These episodes do not stop with Mahavishnu. We are told of interesting vulgarities about Mahavishnu’s wife called Mahalakshmi. It seems Lakshmi saw a beautiful horse and instantly fell in love with the horse. Vishnu, the knower of all things, came to know about this matter. He immediately changed his wife Lakshmi, into a mare and he himself became a horse. The Vishnu and Lakshmi enjoyed. They did not give birth to a foal, but a human being was born to them. He was named Eka Veeran.

Now let us take into consideration the truths said about the greatness of Devendiran, the king of the devas. Once the king Devendiran happened to see a lady named Parisadam, she was the dutiful wife of a rishi. He wanted to have intercourse with her. He said that he had a great love for her. She replied that she has neither love for Indiran nor could she betray her husband. Indiran was frustrated. He was determined to achieve his object. Some time later the rishi performed Aswamedha yaga wherein his wife Parisadam had to insert the penis of the horse into her womb, as a ritual. Indiran seized this as the best opportunity. He somehow entered inside the male organ of the horse and accomplished his long felt desire. Indiran spoilt Parisadam forcibly against her wishes.

I have enlightened you with great restraint, the details regarding Brahma, Rishis, Devas and their king to enable you to learn something about them as is authoritatively stated in the Manu’s code.

Courts warned: Today our high courts are giving judgments based on the Hindu law. As the justice is given to all taking into consideration mainly what the Manu law, rishis and devas have said sometime long ago, I am telling you all these things for deep consideration.

So far as the Hindus are concerned, where there is a problem to be decided, the dharma sastras are seemed to be the main basic rock of determination. Of all, the Manu code is the most important one.

The Privy Council has categorically stated about the Manu code thus: “However obsolete and out of date it might be judgment based on it are final”. Not only this, the Constitution of India is also laid down according to the Manu law.

The very fact that the measures taken by the government of Tamil Nadu to enable all communities to do the job as priests in temples were nullified by the Supreme Court of India clearly demonstrated that the Manu’s law is still under the full sway. The Act passed by the elected representatives of the people in Tamil Nadu assembly has been set aside as derogatory and against Manu law.

[Reply]

What did a common Afghani do to US that they are killing them? US’s reasoning in Afghani presence was Bin Laden. Now he is in Pakistan then they should go and search destroy in Pakistan and leave Afghanistan and Afghani people alone. Islam is a good religion that is created to address in equal treatment of fellow human beings. Unfortunately there always has been an Islamic face which has been violent and intolerant. The religion that gave Sufism has also created Aurangzebs. Taliban or Islamic terror is not a US creation, the theology has been there for centuries. US of course has been instrumental in giving them an organized face in the last decades and are now being bitten by them in the face and being politically helpless now dragging the entire world with it.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:11 pm

aurangzeb was most tolerant.shit about him was spreaded by britishers.in his ministry there were 37%hindus.his prime minister and cnc were both hindus.now that shit is being carried out by rss terrorists whose founders were bump lickers and boot polishers of british empire.

[Reply]

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:05 pm

@Mir C, if USA leaves AFGANISTAN WILL REVERT TO BEING A COLONY OF PAKISTAN WITH A PUPPET GOVT BY THE NAME OF TALIBAN. Women will be beaten by their husband for refusing sex , and this will have religiouslaw sanction , and WOMEN’S NOSES WILL BE CHOPPED OFF for arguing with their husbands.OH YES world will be flooded with OPIUM.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

shan, sattar chohe kha ke billi haj ko chali.among hindus women of every class is beaten and burnt alive.among muslims it is limited upto poors only.i ahve never heard any afghan women to be burn alive like in india.

[Reply]

@Azhar

You talk of jobs… If muslims countires offer so much than why muslims even from middle east are dying to get into US/EUrope ? You are Pakistani and I bet those muslims in middle east they hate south asian muslims far more than anyone else.

Muslims are most backward people in then world and Islam has blinded nearly one fourth of mankind.It just puts a cap on thinking. Continue making babies without even thinking. If oil is taken out you will be back in stone age. Thank the whiteman who built engines and extracted oil before you sub humans did even knew how to tell cheese from chaulk.

[Reply]

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:08 pm

@Sen , They absolutely do , That is why the sheikh buys MANCHESTER CITY FOOTBALL CLUB for 250 million dollars , yet hardly donated a penny to PAKISTAN FLOOD VICTIMS.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:06 pm

yet hardly donated a penny to PAKISTAN FLOOD VICTIMS

it means they are secular bussinesman

[Reply]

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

but then allah is all powerful , could hv stopped tyhe floods.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:00 pm

they used to ,now flow is reversed.like britishers looted india so u have to leave india.zoinists
looted america hence americans are running towards middle east to make their future.like russians few years back.25000 germans came to emirates 30 yrs ago.not a single returned.

[Reply]

Azhar Hussain Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 7:49 pm

And you are talking every invention in the last hundred years happened in India, what a joke.

[Reply]

Mr. Zia,
You seem to become mentally bankrupt. Terrorism and Islam are two sides of the same coin. You can fabricate as many conspiracy theories as you wish or blame US/ jews for terrorism ( Thank you for admitting terrorism exists). The question is if you muslims are brainless fools who let themselves to be used why u blame others ? because u can not justify killings any more? I wonder if there was no oil in middle east what would have been the story of Islam!

[Reply]

Zia is angry at US because he was denied US visa

[Reply]

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

true, they are eager to get away from the land of pure to land of evil satan . using all evil satan ideas starting with fake birth certificates.

[Reply]

why my comments get removed ?

[Reply]

Islam provided the ideology, Saudi Arabia and the West provided the means. The West supported the mujahideen in the name of Islam to kill the Roosi kafirs not realizing that after the Muj have taken care of one set of kafirs, they will come after the other set.

[Reply]

Let me get it right. If US ivasion or Iraq was wrong and Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was wrong, then Zahir ud-din Muhammad Babur’s invasion of South Asia and Shahāb-ud-Din Muhammad Ghori’s invasions of India must also be wrong. Just before a war occured a few hundred years ago, it does not not become right? Does it? But is anyone counting? In particular, is Zia Haq counting? Haq Sahab, Islamic terrorism goes more than 30 years and it predates western imperialism.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:54 pm

all the invaders were invited by high caste hindus.local population never fought against them
moghuls made india their home like aryan s developed this and established a most peaceful
state of the world.when britishers took the reign it had 93%literacy and india was economic superpower.aryans always looted india.they helped britishers to establish their rule.and loot india.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:57 pm

there is islamic terrorism itis high caste terrorism against all races of india.tribal,dalits backward.brhmnsm like zoinism can only survive on war and voilence.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:13 pm

there is islamic terrorism

there is no islamic terrorism..sorry

[Reply]

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

some where in afgan, mulla shouting at ram autar – you pa** ram autar, your proved your are good for nothing. can you not check before submit. now go back to that cave & clean the toilet. you are not touching that pc for a week.

raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

- but then religion of peace is more important, who cares the kafir.

[Reply]

Also Mr. Zia Haq, you are allowed to publish your propaganda in a Hindu newspaper BUT no muslim newspaper I have come across will give you freedoms to do this,. Your piece is trying to lay the blame on the west BUT people do have minds of their own and can decide to do or not do. As Muslims your history tells us all that you are spreading Islam by terror.

[Reply]

By stating that “the term Global Terrorism has not yet been coined” , Zia is implying 1) what Islamists are doing now is quite similar to the internal resistance movment against communists or 2) what mujahudin were doing then in Afghanistan is similar to what terrorists are doing now, although we di not call it “Global Terrorism”. Both are wrong; and Zia is just twisting.

During the Mujahudin days, no single mujahudin did any act of violence outside Afghanistan. None went to UK to dommit suidide bombing. None went to Eutrope. And hence nobody called it “global terror”.. Fast forward – Russians leave, the newly idled “jehadists” (Pakistanis, Uzbeks, Arabs..) start traveling to various parts of the world and starts committing acts of violence and bombings; and now you have an entirely different one from an exclusively focused one in Afghanistan..Hence the term global terrorism. Muslims from one country trave (led) to another country to commit suicide bombings. We had one of our own, Kabil, from Bangalore, travel to Glasgow, to bomb the airport. there.

US, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia ’s mistake was leaaving this cohesive group behind once the Rusiians left. Paakistan considered having them an issue of “strategic depth”. Saudi Arabia was happy that all thes s jehadis were on some other soila nd not plotting anything against the monarchy. US was stupid in thinking these guys will go back to their home countries.

While some of theseleft behinds will indeed become foot soldiers of future global terrorism; Zia has conveniently omitted the role of another Zia , Zia -al-Haq of Pakistan, in creating jehadis. More than the original Afghani Mujahuddin, it is the Pakistani jehadists who are now everywjhere, and it is the Pakistani training camps where all aspiring terrrorists go for basic and advanced training.Zia /Pakistan was one of the only three countries in the world that recognized the afghan taliban govrnment. The other two being Saudi and UAE.

Zia-al-Haqq’s Islamization of Pakistan has contributed in a big way to the global terrorism we witness today.His article 298C barring Ahmadiyas and craeting permanent stigma on them, his purge of Shias, his formation of Majlis-e-Shora,, enforcing Nizam-e-Mustafa , institution of Sharia benches, and above all the state definittion of Muslims and non-Muslims and the subsequent blasphemy laws, requirement of five prayers etc has created a populace brimming with hatred, waiting to explode, and are exploding because there are no other “exits” in that country. It was during his “pious” time, Saudi Arabia “invested” crores to establish Madrasii, that will later function as supply line of terrorists.

To Zia’s credit, he did noy deploy these terrorists to Kashmir. It will be Mrs Bhutto, in conjunction with the diabolic Hamid Gul, the chief of ISI, who will send the jehadi terrrists to Kashmir in late 1980s. That is when these terrorists started bombing in Kashmir, intimidating and terrorising the locals, tarnsformingf a stone throwing group to a bombing group. “one who uses the sword, dies by the sword” – eventually Mrs Bhutto will be killed by the same jehadists (who were pulled back from Kashmir at the insistence of US). One of the last communication Mrs Bhutto sent to Pervez Mushraff was that jehadists associated with Hamid Gul, in conjunction with Hamid Gul,.are plotting to kill her.

The ISI/Jehadist nexus started under Zia, reconfigured as ISI/terrorist nexus under Mrs Bhutto/Hamid Gul transformed into a vicious, evil terror perpetarting mechanism that now ISI finds it cannot control. The terrorists are now going after their ex bosses and trainers!

It is not US that created these terrorists. It is the hatred preached in some of the 40,000 madrasii in Pakistan, where young minds are exhorted with vision of heaven, and duty to God (in killing infidels). The US behavior, action, or inaction, just becomes a convenient fodder.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

mirza mujahideen were created by americans and zoinists to serve their purpose of destroying soviet union.reason was to take jews to isreal.muslims were fooled now it is ur chance.terrorism in that area is basically resistence against occupation.this type of response comes from non muslim countries as well.what is this mental gymnastics i dont understand.war is for money ,not religion.
kashmir terrorism was initiated by brhmns in 1947 ,when on 6th november 1947 they killed 250000 muslims of jammu.like china war was initiated by brhmn nehru.which killed our 100000 soldiers.life of shudra has no meaning as per manusmriti.
hinduism i s the father of rascism apartheism &fascism.

[Reply]

Raju Kurien Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:32 pm

mr Autar

I request to you again. Please do not recycle teh same sudra manusti brahmin cra… Discuss why Muslims are committing terrorism..was it caused by US..etc etc to the subjct of this blog. If you think sudras and Brahmins created worldwide ISlanmic terrorism, then articulate that.. Please..dont waste space and time if they are not related

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:22 pm

muslims are awnsering state terrorism.they are victim of terrorism and brhmnsm.they are terrorist.

shan Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:49 pm

@l mirza, In one word HONEST

[Reply]

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:36 pm

homegrown resistance to an act of foreign country invasion – such as in Iraq – should not be considered a part of terrorism. So, I will not call an Iraqi resistor who bombs, as terrorist, however, Al-queda or **** or Yemeni guys traveling to Iraq and bombing are international terrorists.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:54 am

alqaeda or yemeni are like maoists.they are the victims of autocratic and theocratic rule of saud family.

[Reply]

All are badly debating on the issue.No one is there to reconcile no one there to listen.Every body having hatered nature to each other.

Please BE A BETTERIST NOT A TERRORIST.

Regards,
Tanweer

[Reply]

I thought Zia finally made some sense and use of his ability to write for a national newspaper until he made this conclusion

“Of course, the West’s arming of the mujahideen is seen as one of the major reasons for the rise of al-Qaida.”

Major reason ? lol. One of the reasons – yes…major reason – no

and al qaeda is not the only islamic terrorists around. even western powers created al qaeda…you cant conclude that they created islamic terrorism.

[Reply]

S Singh Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 9:38 pm

What about the killer of Theoo Von gogh the movie director, for directing the movie “Submission”. What about the series of murderers who bombed and are still raging at the Danish cartyoonist who published cartoon in Jyllands Posten newspaper?

So, will Zia say that Theo Von Gogh created terrorism or created an artistic movie?

[Reply]

Kunal Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 5:23 am

Zia is only interested in putting positive spins and try to vindicate his fellow Muslims anywhere and however he can.

He takes any topic and twists it in the favour of the Muslims. This blog should be renamed to “They Call me a Biased Muslim”

In this one, he wants us to believe that Islamic terrorism is nothing but in retaliation to Western policies in the Middle East. Western countries did influence creation of terrorism to a certain extent, but it’s not the root cause.

This is a very naive article, where Zia has stated some facts about how US and UK armed the Mujhahideen against the Russians, and then goes on to conclude that Islamic Terrorism started because of the above.

The analysis is really laughable. ZIa should have delved more into the history of Islamic terrorism to make us believe his conclusion, but he has cleverly ignored that as either is lazy to do that research or he himself knows that he won’t be able to conclude that Islamic terrorism is solely created because of Western influence.

Most of Zia’s articles are similar, won’t appeal to other objective thinking Muslims either.

[Reply]

Rohit Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:37 am

Kunal,

You belong to the Islamaphobic group. So WHY ARE YOU HERE READING AND COMMENTING ON THIS BLOG?
This is for the rest of the 90% of the sane Indians who can appreciate a good piece when they read one.

You yourself are quite laughable in the way you drip with hatred against Muslims. Shame on you.

Kunal Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 6:13 am

Nowhere in my comment, I have written that I hate Muslims or any other community for that matter.

I have only written that I do not agree with the conclusion drawn by Zia that Islamic terrorism started because of Western influence in the region. If he does want to conclude that, he has to give us more research than just telling us that Western powers armed the Mujahideen which we all know.

If you do your research and read other articles on the net, other authors have argued that Islamic terrorism is not a direct result of US and Europe meddling in the Middle East.

I don’t have to hate Islam to hate Islamic terrorism. Even Islamists hate Islamic terrorism. By blaming someone without doing research, Zia is actually spread hatred which he should refrain from.

Zia is being a classical “Islamist apologist”. Blame the west,blame the Jews, blame the Hindus,blame everyone else for the barbaric actions of muslim terrorists. This is now old news and the pattern is very clear.whenever a Muslim ragbag terrorist blows himself – the usual conspiracy theories begin circulating among the Muslim population.even in Mumbai attacks a conspiracy theory surrounding karkare’s death was started just to avoid the clear cut jihadi nature of the attacks.very few people are any longer buying this **** besides islamists and their supporters.the true global nature of Islamic terrorism is for all to see.in India Hindus are targeted over Kashmir, in china its over the xinjiang province, in Thailand there is a separatist Islamic movement avaunt buddhists, in russia its over chechenaya.in africa we all the how islamists have truly. Devoured the African non-Muslims.terrorist attack recently took place in Sweden and against Christians in Iraq and Egypt.the genocide of Hindus in bangladesh and Kashmir is another example.the genocide of Armenians another.terrorist attacks in Indonesia,phillippenes,Malaysia . The complete eradication of buddhism in afganistan,zorashtrians in Iran.

[Reply]

S Singh Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 12:00 am

Precisely the reasons why Indians should be vigilant about the Islamist Terrorism;.

[Reply]

ram autar Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 12:23 am

s singh true face of hindu terrorism

Shyam Chand, a Dalit scholar and activist who served for many years as member of the Haryana Legislative Assembly, quotes from a secret circular sent out by the RSS to its preachers. It clearly indicates the sinister Brahminical strategy of using the Dalit-Bahujans to attack the Muslims and Christians, while at the same time aiming to keep the Dalit-Bahujans under the permanent slavery of the ‘upper’ castes.
Excerpts from Secret Circular No.411 issued by the RSS:
[.] Scheduled Castes and Other Backward Classes are to be recruited to the party so as to increase the volunteers to fight against the Ambedkarites and Mussalmans.
Hindutva should be preached with a vengeance among physicians and pharmacists so that, with their help, time expired [sic.] and spurious medicines might be distributed amongst the Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Scheduled Tribes. The newborn infants of Shudras, Ati-Shudras, Mussalmans, Christians and the like should be crippled by administering injections to them. To this end, there should be a show of blood-donation camps.
Encouragement and instigation should be carried on [sic.] more vigorously so that the womenfolk of Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Christians live by prostitution.
Plans should be made more foolproof so that the people of the Scheduled Castes, Backward Classes, Musslamans and Christians, especially the Ambedkarites, become crippled by taking in [sic.] harmful eatables.
Special attention should be given to the students of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes so as to make them read the history written according to our dictates.
During riots the women of Mussalmans and Scheduled Castes should be gang-raped. Friends and acquaintances cannot be spared. The work should proceed on the Surat model.
Publication of writings against Mussalmans, Christians, Buddhists and Ambedkarites should be accelerated. Essays and writings should be published in such a way as to prove that Ashoka was opposed to the Aryans.
All literature opposed to Hindus and Brahmins are [sic.] to be destroyed. Dalits, Mussalmans, Christians and Ambedkarites should be searched out. Care should be taken to see that this literature do [sic.] not reach public places. Hindu literature is to apply [sic.] to the Backward Classes and Ambedkarites.
The demand by the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for filling in the backlog vacancies in services shall by no means be met. Watch should be kept to see that their demands for entry and promotion in government, non-government or semi-government institutions are to be rejected and their service records are destroyed with damaging reports.
Measures should be taken to make the prejudices amongst Scheduled Castes and Backward people more deep-rooted. To this end, help must be taken from saints and ascetics.
Attacks should be started with vigour against equality, preaching communists [sic.], Ambedkarites, Islamic teachers, Christian missionaries and neighbours [?].
Assaults should be made on Ambedkar’s statues with greater efforts.
Dalit and Muslim writers are to be recruited to the party and by them essays and literature opposed to the Dalits, Ambedkarites and Mussalmans written and preached [sic.]. Attention is to be paid to see that these writings are properly edited and preached [sic.].
Those opposed to Hindutva are to be murdered through false encounters. For this work the help of the police and semi-military [sic.] forces should always be taken.”[2]
*
In the face of this circular, no more evidence is needed to show what Hindutva actually bodes for the Dalit-Bahujans. It circular very clearly indicates that Hindutva aims essentially at preserving the oppression of the Dalit-Bahujans, in addition to the Muslims and Christians, on which the entire edifice of Brahminism stands.

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karan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 8:34 am

There are two WINGS of Islamic supramacists aka Islamists – One is the terrorist wing ie the AlQaeda,Taliban,Lashkar e toiba,Jaish e Mohammed and the other is the Propogandist wing – the Anjum Chaudhary of UK, Zakir Naik in India etc . Mr.Ram Autar belongs to the propagandist wing whose only job is to spread false propaganda,spread conspiracy theories etc in order to MIS-DIRECT the focus of the people from the REAL problem of Islamic supramacist ideology tearing the world into bits.

Islamist propogandists favorite tool against the hindu readership is “Castism” – used merely are a tool to obfuscate the “ISSUE of ISLAMIC TERRORISM”.

The “protocols of the elders of Zion” is another favorite anti-semite tool designed to target the jews.

And the arming by the WEST of the Mujhadeen against the Russian is again designed to target the WEST.( As Zia mentions)

The pattern is obvious – muddy waters, confuse readership, delicately justify islamic terrorist attacks.

Their only objective is to push their islamist agenda and thats it – they are not bothered about any country,community,religion,caste,sect etc – only 1 agenda to spread their agenda.

These people will say 9/11 was a conspiracy hatched by the US to invade Iraq , they will say mumbai was conspiracy done by Hindus to tarnish the name of islam. They will say that JEWS have a conspiracy to control the world etc etc ………

So while the Terrorist arm butchers people – the propagandist arm spreads conspiracy theories – ” Hindus have done to Tarnish name of Islam , Joos have done to tarnish name of Islam”.

A Recent example can be seen on the Terrorist attack against Christian Church in Egypt in which 21 christians were killed. Now terrorist did their job – now have a look at the propagandists.

(1) Lebanese Shi’ite leader on Egypt church bombing: “This terrorist act bears the fingerprints of Zionists who… are working to…sow discord between Muslims and Christians”
(2)Iran’s PressTV: Egypt church bombing part of “organized Zionist scenario aimed at creating a rift between Muslims and Christians”
(3)Saudi Mufti on Egypt church bombing: “Enemies of Islam are trying to portray such attacks as orchestrated by Muslims”
(4)”Reformist” Sheikh Qaradawi on Egypt church bombing: “There may be a foreign hand behind this action, for it does not make sense for an Egyptian or a Muslim to be behind it”

There you go ……

Raju Kurien Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 9:59 am

Kran — you are right…the other theory is “Muslims will not kill innocents — because it is against Quran”

shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

@Karan , this is what highly intelligent, and rational and humanistic bloggers , like SYED, L MIRZA , SHOEB K habe been harping on for a long time , THAT ISLAM NEEDS TO EXTRICATE ITSELF FROM THE CLUTCHES OF MULLAHS, THERE WAS NO CONCEPT OF PRIESTHOOD DURING ISLAM’S INCEPTION. If that happens , then debates take place , then the porkys are sifted through the mesh of rationality , so what remains are the spiritual aspect of religion. This has happened with each and every religion bar Islam , courtsey of the like of Zia, Sahabuddin, MJ akbar, Owaisi. There have been lone voices like Arif Mohammad Khan,. Take Christians, according to old testament CHRISTIANS SHOULD NOT RECEIVE ANY FORM OF BLOOD TRANSFUSION(JEHOVAH’S WITNESS). Do they give a toss to what is written, the ones which are laggard are the CATHOLICS , as it is led by a virulently CORRUPT , and EVIL CHURCH in ROME , whose head is named as God’s Rotweiller. I remember when I was in Cologne I saw a picture of the current pope , on which somebody has scrawled a moustache making him look like HITLER. This freedom is what Islam needs.

Introspection could be a better start for the new year
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hurriyat-leader-says-end-lies-our-own-killed-lone-mirwaiz-sr/732364/1

Indian government also have to come forward to introspect its screwed up policies and inefficient governance which has made this this peaceful valley a hell in 2-3 decades. (Does it want to use army and CPRF or talk to separatists? It says “Kashmir is our integral part”. Then gives protection for seminars of Roy and Gilani. Every step is self contradictory).

If a kid gets killed in a firing targeted towards violent protesters, police and separatists both need to share blame. A separatist cannot justify bringing a kid to a violent street under “martyrdom” or an Indian cannot justify the bullet action (however involuntary it is, given the uncontrollable situation around the policeman) out of “patriotism”. Both justifications violate the one which is above all these isms, “humanism”. Let 2011 bring peace for all.

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The pseudo-nationalist and Islamphobes aside. This archives show in vivid detail of how western powers used terrorist groups for their own benefit.

OBL and company is just a big case of blowback.

Every religion has their own crazies. The pseudo-Hindu groups like VHP/Abhinav Bharat e.t.c. have been involved in bombings from Ajmer to Hyderabad. The Hindus of LTTE were involved in one of the largest suicide bombing campaign in history. The Zionist terrorist groups killed not only Palestinians but also Americans and Britishers who opposed their views.

The important point is to stop using religion for political purposes and all religions should unite for this.

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S Singh Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

Rohit

You are now twisting facts.

You are crazy to state LTTE was a Hindu movement. Now even if it were a Hindu movement, Hindus from all over teh world did not tarvel to the supporting countries of Sinhalese Govt and bomb themselves.

And you are crazy on your statement on VHP etc. Yes, they are committing terrorist acts, but are they going around the world and exploding for some perceived abuse on Hindus

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Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

I thought the blog was about who is responsible for Isllamic terrorism, and not about “others commit terrorism, so Islamic terrorism is Ok” and it is a wash..

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shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

@Rohit, have you thought of counterposing your argument and saying HOW TERRORIST GROUP USED/ACCEPTED FAVOURS LARGESSE FROM INFIDELS ONLY TO FULFILL THIER JIHADI HUNGER.

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shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

@Rohit, the hindus of LTTE killed the prime minister of a hindu majority country , and that hindu LTTE , DID NOT USE RELIGION AS A JUSTIFICATION OR SOUGHT SANCTION FROM HINDU TEXTS , IT WAS AN INSURGENCY BY THE PEOPLE WHO HAPPENED TO BE HINDUS.You cannot compare snake with mosquito, or apple with pears.

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ram autar Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

what about ghandhi,what about 600 plus communal riots.what about mascare of sikhs,what about orrisa mascare.list is long .

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raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

sikh were killed by congress goons (that include muslim supporters of secular congress)
what about orissa, why don’t you give the cause for retaliation. hindu school teacher killed by harvesters of soul.
convenient to forget train burning, in gujarat.

ram autar Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

only hindutva and hindu terrorists and zoinists use the word religion,to justify their nefarious activities and violence.muslims are fighting war of liberation.sometimes they use religous slogans

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I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

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Blaming US and the West for Bin Laden and Islamic terrorism is like blaming Quran for causing terrorism. One who accepts the West and US a the primary creator, should invariably have to accept Quran as an equal contributor.

It is a nonsensical analysis and attribution.

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ram autar Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

rerrorism is the handiwork of hindu zoinists and european zoinists.muslims are victim of their terrorism.

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Mother of all scams reveals limitless upper caste corruption
The mother of all scams on the mobile spectrum issue not only involves the “Khatri Sick” PM, the Tatas, Ambanis, the country’s two largest business houses, but also top English paper and TV journalists — all upper castes. That means the entire upper caste (15%) world — which controls the executive, judiciary, media, defence, bureaucracy, corporate sector is totally corrupt

Poor A. Raja, dismissed as IT Minister, is the only one who was punished so far (DV Dec.1, 2010 p.19: “A. Raja paid for being Dalit”).

Paid news criminals: This country is ruled by the sick people and they are spreading their sickness to the innocent people lower down the hierarchy.

The “Radia Tape” has brought out the names of “corrupt journalists” also: Barkha Dutt (NDTV), Vir Sanghvi, Prabhu Chawla. Major English papers have blacked out the “Radia Tapes” to save their “corrupt colleagues”. Rajdeep Sardesai (CNN-IBN), a Maharashtrian Brahmin, was hooted at the Delhi Press Club discussion on the subject for shielding the corrupt colleagues. There was almost a riot in the Press Club attacking Sardesai who always acts as a paragon of all virtues.

Why this same media fellows did not allow the Press Commission to punish the “paid news” criminals?

Upper caste composition of media: DV was the first in India to declare that the Indian print media, both English, language as well as the TV and broadcast media are corrupt to core.

They are corrupt because the journalists involved belong to the upper caste. There are hardly any Dalit or Muslim in senior positions in the media
Politicians alone are not corrupt. The entire ruling class (15%) is stinking. Exceptions prove the rule

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Raju Kurien Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

so what does it have to do with who is responsible for islamic terrorism — will u please stick to the subject.

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 12:45 am

THUS SPAKE AMBEDKAR

Vedas are works of scoundrels
Secondly, assuming god had a body, god could not perceive things which are beyond the reach of the senses while the Vedas contain things beyond the reach of human senses.

Thirdly, the connection between a word and its meaning is eternal.

Fourthly, sound is eternal.

Fifthly, because sound is eternal words which are made up of sounds are also eternal.

Sixthly, because words are eternal, therefore, the Vedas are eternal and because the Vedas are eternal they are not made by man nor by god.

What can one say of these premises? Can there be anything more absurd? Who can accept that the Vedas contain something not comprehensible by human senses? Who can accept that there is an eternal connection between a word and its meaning? Who can accept that sound is not created not manifested but is eternal?

Having regard to these absurd premises one is led to ask why did the Brahmins make such a desperate attempt for establishing a desperate conclusion? What did they want to gain thereby? Was it because the Vedas had been made the exponent of the Chaturvarna with the Brahmins as the lord of all.

RIDDLE NO.6
THE CONTENTS OF THE VEDAS : HAVE THEY ANY MORAL OR SPIRITUAL VALUE ?

1

If the Vedas are to be accepted as binding and infallible then what they teach must have ethical and spiritual value. Nobody can regard a rag to be binding and infallible because a philosopher like Jaimini came forward to lend his authority to such a proposal. Have the Vedas any ethical or spiritual value? Every Hindu who regards the Vedas are infallible is bound to consider this question.

Modern writers have expressed views which deny any spiritual value to the Vedas. As an illustration one may refer to the views of Prof. Muir. According to Prof. Muir:

“The whole character of these compositions and the circumstances under which, from internal evidence, they appear to have arisen, are in harmony with the supposition that they were nothing more than the natural expression of the personal hopes and feelings of those ancient bards of whom they were first recited. In these songs the Aryan sages celebrated the praises of their ancestral gods (while at the same time they sought to conciliate their goodwill by a variety of oblations supposed to be acceptable to them) and besought of them all the blessings which men in general desired — health, wealth, long life, cattle, offspring, victory over their enemies, forgiveness of sin, and in some cases also celestial felicity”.

It would no doubt be objected that all foreign scholars are prejudiced and that their views cannot therefore be accepted. Fortunately we are not altogether dependent upon the views of foreigners. There are leaders of indigenous schools of thought which have taken the same view. The most notorious example is that of the Charvakas.

The opposition of Charvaka can be seen from the following quotation which reproduces his line of argument against the Vaidikas:

“If you object that, if there be no such thing as happiness in a future world, then how should men of experienced wisdom engage in the agnihotra and other sacrifices, which can only be performed with great expenditure of money and bodily fatigue. Your objection cannot be accepted as any proof to the contrary, since the agnihotra, etc. are only useful as means of livelihood, for the Veda is tainted by three faults of untruth, self-contradiction and tantology, then again the impostors who call themselves Vaidic pundits are mutually destructive, as the author of the Jnan-Kanda is overthrown by those who maintain the authority of the Karma-Kanda and those who maintain the authority of the Jnan-Kanda reject that of the Karma-Kanda; and lastly the three Vedas themselves are only the incoherent rhapsodies of knaves and to this effect runs the popular saying: (to be continued

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

there is nothing like islamic terrorism it is imagination of hindu zoinists.in iraq and afghanistan it is resistence.why u people are silent on latin american movement .they all similar to taliban.against american robbery of their country.

biggest terrorism is coming from hindu zionism.they are the bunch of criminals gangesters hwala dealers scam operators financial thieves.bomb planter and riot operators.

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Salman Taseer, governor of the Punjab province., Pakistan, was shot dead few hours ago, by extremist muslims, because of his outspoken views on the Blasphemy Law there (essentially denying many rights to minorities) . Now nobody will speak against that law for fear of life, and the terrorist killings and the country’s downward spiralwill just continue.

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shan Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

@Raju Kurien , you were prophetic, you wrote …“Muslims will not kill innocents — because it is against Quran” So the converse logic is Muslims kill when it is in sync with Quoran. That is waht happened with Salman Tasser, who did not fulfill the obligation of muslim , as he couldn’t CONVERT TAVLEEN SINGH with whom he had a child named Ateesh Tasser. It is quite frightening really , on top of this DEEP SEA OF HATRED is the DEVIL , the ARMY breathing down the neck. The only solution I can think of is DISMEMBERMENT OF PAKISTAN

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

CONVERT TAVLEEN SINGH

chutie shan hinu women being shudra has no religion ,convert according to religion of husband.

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Rajeev Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

rat autar,
mohammad was shudra but tavleen is skih.

ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 12:28 am

he was asking for this.i was expecting this to happen any day.these looters of pakistan have no idea of muslim feeling.while that lady was in jail and case was subjeduice.he was anouncing that nothing will happen to her.he was governor not judge.
regarding tavleen singh ,i think she is muslim by heart .i read about her.i have seen her speaking.force conversion is not accepted in islam.a hindu women will cease to be hindu if her husband is muslim.islam is religion while hinduism is trading and marketing of idol.temples are
supermarket of bhagwans.where they are sold traded and all type lies are spreaded about them.

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All of you please read this

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnists/zero-tolerance-secret-billions/236261.html

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Zia, how could you explain the killing of Salman Taseer..yes you could argue that it could have been the dirty trick of the American satan with the help of his sibling the jewish devil!..you have to be honest when you pen down about the state of Islam…I am one of the few who think that there are some genuine grievances among the muslims..like the Palestine issue…the ever lasting shock of the Barbari masjid demolition..the inhuman massacre in Gujarat..even I understand the reactive violent retribution ..Zia knows the difference..he is a chicken hearted coward to come forward and show some courage and use his writing dexterity to isolate the Islamists who wage terror and mayhem in the name of Allah..He and his fellow muslim elite know this danger and surprisingly keep mum and always play the role of grievance mongers..the real threat to the world is political Islam with it barbaric prehistoric fatwas..not the imperialist monster which at least could be controlled and checked..

[Reply]

Shoeb K Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 12:22 am

Mohan-

You raise a valid point. Part of the, or may be even main, issue is the fear factor. The extremist wing, although in minority, is in an upper position because of the freewheeling violence.

Muslims of India, Indonesia, Malaysia, and to some extent Bangla Desh my be the only ones who can “rise” against the grip of the extremists. And it may be best for Indian Muslims to lead that, so they can also demonstrate how a vibrant multi-religious country could be built; and push away all this publicity nonsense of infidels etc

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 12:35 am

shoeb where there is no america there is no extremism.assisnation of salman tyseer was natural.it was political .nothing to do with extremenism.the elite class of pakistan is the most corrupt immoral entity of the world.he was from the family of recent brhmn convert.what happened to him was bound to happen.same will be the result of zardari and mushsharaf.

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 12:38 am

how could you explain the killing of Salman Taseer..yes you could argue that it could have been the dirty trick of the American satan with the help of his sibling the jewish devil
he was extremely immoral person.what happened was natural. a brhmn convert with all brhmncl qualities .

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Karan Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

I hope people specially non-Muslims can see the clear-cut racist Nature of Islamic supremacist like “ram avatar”. Off course being a islamo-Nazi he doesn’t consider people of other religions including other Muslim sects like ahmaddiyas as worthy of dignity and respect.these so called kafirs are anyways going to burn in the fires of hell as per the Mein-Kamph which he follows.he considers himself to belong to the pure breed. Isn’t this the kind of ideology which created Pakistan and dreams till this day to wave the banner of islam in Delhi,new York,London and everywhere else.how different is it to the thinking of hitler then ? The perverse ideology of superiority over rest of mankind and the division of mankind into muslims and kafirs.it’s sheer lunacy and such lunatics are the ones who have become the self-appointed “soilders of islam”.these people want blood – religion is a good excuse to quench their thirst.so Asia bibi the poor Christian lady becomes a piece of meat for their manics to devour and made an example of.instill fear into their hearts.and if a third class Muslim stands in their path they will kill him first.however once they do it they will again claim themselves to be the victim , accuse others of islamophobia and blame the joooos,Hindus,west,pope ……heck they will even blame kafir jinns of plotting against Islam.next week when everythinng is back to normal they will get up and decide that Islam is in danger once again……and start hunting for their next victim.psychos !!

[Reply]

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

Well, Taseer was one of the very few politicians/leaders who openly came out extremely critical of the “blasphemy law” asto how it puts minorities not only at an economiv disadvantage, but also cerating an environment where their lives are in danger. Now since mullahs have come out with the threat of violence on anybody who wants to change the law, no ordinary politician is going to come out in favor of repeal. Let us hope an extraordinary person ill rise and this nonsensical law will be removed.

As Shan said, as long as these crazies are running Pakistan, the onlys ensible thing for India is to focus on the western border and plan for the possibility that the extremists will get hold of the bomb, since there is a clear collusion between extremists and a section of the army/ISI

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More about the springboard of terrorism..

“More than 500 “scholars” (??) of Jamamit Al Sunnat, a congregation of ‘moderate” maulavis, have advised Muslims not to offer prayer meetings for Taseer or try to lead prayers. Also, there should be no grief or sympathy on the death of thegovernor as those who support blasphemy of the prophet are themselves indulging in blasphemy”

Taseer’s fault was trying to get the illiterate Christian woman, Aasa, who is in jail sentenced for hanging, out of jail. He and Sherry Rehman, ex minister have been trying to get this medieval law removed. (see Mirza’s blog above how Zia Al Haq created an army of jehadis)

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shan Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

Post Script, 700 facebook subscibers have posted message praising the killer, lawyer have said they will provide full support to the killer, it would be interesting to see the outcome of the trial if it ever takes place, already the judge deliberating on the execution of that haplees girl has been threatened with murder. Looks like holocaust all over again,. My feeling the Sepsis /Toxin has reached such proportion , only thing that one can do is to see that RABID dog GETS NOWHERE NEAR YOU(read more Military spending by India)

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

Post Script, 700 facebook subscibers

i was expecting 7000.

haplees girl has been

she will left provided say sorry and assure she will not do it again.

read the deeds of crusaders.

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Rajeev Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

To support Taseer, I proclaim that-
1. Pakistani Islam is evil.
2. Pakistani version of Mohammad is evil.
May Mr.Taseer rest in in peace and Qadri burn in hell for eternity with rat autar.

There is no limit to the stupidity of the people who control the politics of the only super-power in the world namely the USA.
But Zia has admitted that Bin Laden was already financing the Mujahideen. So the fuel was already there. The stupid USA only ignited it. Nobody howsoever powerful can create something out of nothing.
So, as usual, Zia tries to shift blame to others. But the basic problem is the militant ideology that is Islam.

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Syed Qutb of Egypt and Abdul Maudidi of Pakistan, through their exhortions, writings, articulations created the Islamic terrorism we are witnessing today. Bin Laden is a student of Qutb. Abdul Maudidi took the theories upto the stage of violence, Qutb took it through violence and the establishment of a true Islamic world. He started with the premise that the current Muslims have gone astray fromAllah, they are like infidels, Takfeer, and hence nothing wrong in killing them too to establish the true Islamic world. (hence the bombings of mosques in Pakistan).

Qutb’s most virulent writings (including his “step by step exhortions to killing ” – “Milestones” happened after his life and experience in US where he went to do his PhD in the early 1950. He believed western life is decaddent, and it gave him a sense of urgency to draft his prescription for Islam. And what we see around – 9/11, 11/26, underwear bombing, train station bombing, murder of painters and artists, mosque bombing, shrine bombing, airplane bombing- is his prescription on how to combat the Western decadence.

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ram autar Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

it is muslim president of egypt who hanged him.india rss chieve is roaming freely.sept 11 was inside job.26/11 was jiont operation of isi cia and brhmns of IB.

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terrorism and Corruption can’t be eradicated until Brahminism is the reigning religion

Bangalore: The world’s most corrupt people have suddenly started talking, writing and reading about corruption. What is this wonder?

No. No. There is nothing to be shocked about an old woman talking about chastity. This sudden front-paging of corruption stories is aimed at assuring and applying balm on the hurt mind of the victims of corruption to deceive us. Suddenly the old woman is talking of chastity.

Never believe these rascals.

Remember corruption is the other word for Brahminism. Nothing can be done about it. Brahminism is born in corruption. Money corruption is the smallest portion of the over-all world of this corruption.

Sai Baba’s protective umbrella

Look at the Satya Sai Baba blessing all the notorious corrupt rascals at Puttaparti recently on his birthday. The “Khatri Sick” PM and Karnataka’s notoriously corrupt CM, Yeddyurappa, were there. Because they all know that this Ba Ba Black Sheep protects all the corrupt rascals. He is keeping the money of all such rascals.

We assure you we can’t bring down the level of corruption (we mean the money corruption), even by a centimeter as long as we live with this monster called Brahminism.

The Supreme Court itself said on Nov.26, 2010 that Allahabad High Court judges are corrupt (TOI Nov.27, 2010). An ex-Union Law Minister has named the corrupt Supreme Court judges.

“Khatri Sick” PM & Spectrum scam

In the Bombay Adarsha Housing scam, Army, Navy and Air Force chiefs were named.

In the Spectrum Scam, in which a poor Dalit Minister’s head was cut, reports say the “Khatri Sick” himself is involved.

Media corruption

Nira Radia, the glamorous big business PRO in Delhi, has exposed the media corruption about which DV has been shouting all these years.

The media men, being mostly Brahminists, are the most corrupt.

Their corruption was exposed in the “paid news” for which the Times is the market leader. The media, however, suppressed the news. But it is bound to come out because one corrupt rascal is jealous of the other corrupt rascal who has made more money and has a bigger clout.

But most of the fellows involved in this neck-deep corruption are the Aryan upper caste Big Brothers (15%) who alone are the rulers.

The penniless SC/ST/BCs and Muslim (younger brothers) naturally would like to imitate their Big Brahminical Brothers. Imitating the elders is a natural instinct.

Laxmi not Saraswati worshipped

Brahminists glamourise wealth. Laxmi is worshipped. Saraswati dumped into debris. The so-called goddess of learning is killed in cold blood.

Look at the TOI giving a front-page honour to Ambani’s new mansion in Bombay. By reading this story every young man would like to possess such a mansion. He would make money — beg, borrow, or steal. And finally get caught.

But nothing will happen to the Ambanis. They have direct link with the highest in the country.

Brahminism is spreading corruption — money, moral, intellectual and even mental. The Brahminists are only money corrupt. But they are inflicting moral and mental corruption on our people.

As long as we don’t get rid of Brahminism, SC/ST/BCs and Muslim/Christian/Sikhs (the Bahujan Samaj 85%), cannot free themselves from money, moral, intellectual and mental corruption

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Raju Kurien Reply:
January 5th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

Hey fr—ng PAkistani extremist…

Either stay on the subject and debate the issue being raised, or do not get into each and every blog with the same recycled garbage. I have requested you many times. I hoped you will have the courtsey.

To my fellow bloggers — You know where Muslims like Ram Avtar are coming from. As Karan said there are jehadists who kill and jehadists who preach to create jehadists who kill. Ram belongs to the second group. Indians should be very concerned about people like him. He will attaract jehadists who will commit deeds that will make the Indian majority to go after them. What these soft jehadis want is Indias destruction since they could not save aAkistan. Watch out. and be very vigilant

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Kunal Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 5:15 am

lol what a piece of rubbish. ram_autar should be awarded gold medal for distorting facts and writing fiction based comments on this blog.

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Shan, Raju Kurien, S Singh -
Todays New York Times editorial on Taseer:’

“mr Taseer was a brave man who had called for the repeal of Pakistan’s outrageous anti-blasphemy law.
Whoever killed Mr Taseer must be condemned and repudiated, not extolled (ref to Facebook pages and attorneys garlanding the killer). otherwise, Pakistan will certainly continue ona downward spiral in which intolerance and self-destruction triumph. ———— Pakistan cannot afford to lose any fair-minded leaders, especially at a time when it is struggling with a virulent insurgency, an unravellng economy, and an unraveling central government.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

The law is popular with the Muslim majority but is routinely manipulated to settle private rivalries and persecute minorities. And Mr T aseer has been particularly outspoken, calling for leniency for an illiterate Christian mother of four who was sentenced to death under the law, in a case that stemmed from a dispute in her village……..

Some have argued that mentioning reform is blasphemy punishable by death, further fueling the conflict.

Ultimately, only Pakistanis can save their nation, and they must answer the more profound questions: Do they want a country in which Muslims and non-Muslims acan peacefully co-exist? or one in which religious zealots, espousing the most intolerant interpretation of Islam, kill anyone brave enough to defend the defenseless? That would be a true blasphemy.”

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And Mr T aseer has been particularly outspoken, calling for leniency for an

i also condemn killing but he paid for being outspoken.he was sent to punjab to create obstacles in smooth running of state goverment.he should have been more political.this women can have presidential pardon.some time christian missionary pay to create such problems.
he was an american agent in pakistan.looter of pakistan.inspite of this things should be settled through dialogue not guns.but sometime words pierces into heart like sword.

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raj Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

he went against the holy book, he forgot – beleive in religion of peace , or you will be in peices.

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L Mirza Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

“tears and cheers (more cheers than tears) across Pakistan”
“Funeral delayed by two hours because Maulavis refuse to lead”
“Anybody showing sympathy should be tried under the anti-blasphemy law”
“Mumtaza cheered as the saviour; 7000 facebook fans” (one would asssume that a facebook account holder is literate, most probably from a middle class bavkground in Pakistan)

It indeed is a shame!

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Raju Kurien Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

Mirza

Dr Aaaifa Siddiqui, who was sentenced by US on terrorism grounds, is now
“dukhter-e-millat” (daughter of the nation) for these people.

She had left her husband and her two children (later married an extremist), dispapeared for a while, and later shows up in Kabul (yes–on vacation/sight seeing!) , starts shooting the security people ,,and more …goes through the trial, makes the usual bellicose remarks, need for killing infidels etc etc…

Now she is the “dukhter-e-millat”.

This a nation who “threw away” its only nobel prize winner because he was Ahamadiya

Guys, I think musharaff is the man of the moment. Remember how didn’t think twice in blasting LAL MASJID, because they mullahs had tried to get him by his g o o l i e s(read holding chinese hostage), killed like a trigger happy wild west . He will stand up to them , line the S E X M A N I A C (I bet all those sixty plus mullahs have 16yr old fourth wife) and send them to allah to get their just desert.

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Raju Kurien Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

To be honest, I do like Zardari – hi statements have been quite progressive for a **** President, as far as India is concerned, living together, growing together, etc etc. Bu,as you said, I wish he had the guts of Mushruff.

It looks like things have deteriorated beyond repair; nobody will be able to; and may be even army does not want to take over…

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ram autar Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

Entire Hindu terrorist gang now under arrest

Bangalore: Hindu (read Brahminist) terror has become more notorious beating “Islamic terrorism”. With the arrest of Swami Aseemanand alias Tarun Chatterji, a Bengali Brahmin (59), the terrorist circle has become almost complete.

This notorious Brahminical group, fully supported by the zionist Israel to establish a Brahminic dictatorship in India, is behind most of the country’s terrorist acts on Muslims. On Nov.19, 2010, Aseemanand was arrested at Haridwar. The Hindu terrorists are involved in all major blasts — Modasa, Malegaon-I, Mecca Masjid, Samjhauta Express, Ajmer Dargah and Malegaon-II.

Only Sandip Dange and Ramji Kalasangra are still absconding.

Mushrif proves right : Aseemananda is a top crook described as the “Gujarat’s saffron monster”. The Rajasthan ATC was so relieved that they finally got him.

All this proves what S.M. Mushrif has written in his sensational book, Who Killed Karkare?, (2010-edition, Copies available with Dalit Voice, Rs. 300).

Meanwhile, the Bombay High Court has summoned Mushrif to explain the contents of his sensational book which says Bombay Brahmin ATC Karkare, was killed by the IB itself at the instance of the Hindu terrorists outfit Abhinav Bharat.

The Brahminical media is still suppressing the contents of the book which reveals how the very govt. of the country is cooperating with Hindu terrorists.

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Shoeb K Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

Mr Avtar

Contrary to your curses and ill-feelings, it looks like India will muddle through its problems, grow significantly, and will become a vibrant inclusive “model’ democracy. Democracy is messy; its pace may be slower than what we desire, but what other better system is there for a country like India?

Something is working – the whole thing did not collapse like what is happening in your country!

karan Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

Mr.Ram Autar …………your days of propaganda are over because your credulity is ZERO …………….your method is to throw mud at others while you are yourself covered in SHIT …and alas ……….this doesnt work.

This century will be the end of the hatred and bigotry ……..of people like yourself ………and your screaming is the last screams of the DEVIL before the GOODNESS of HUMANITY …suppresses it. And Make no mistake …….there will be no 72 virgins ..there will be no grand welcome …there will be nothing …..and thats your best scenario …………and in your worst scenario …you will be consumed in the fires of your own hatred and bigotry which you deserver.And you know you that ………thats why you are so full of hate ………because ….misery is your past,present and future ………….. …………………wat a sad existense ……………………….no wonder people like yourself blow themselves up ………………………because hate filled ….people like yourself hate other people’s happiness ……………………………….pathetic existence

Raju Kurien Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

Yes, with Ram, all the problems faced by Muslims are with Jews (0.3% of world population, Brahmins (0.05% of world population), the laarger Hindu society minus dalits (may be 5% of the worlds population), and Christians; although in India he coopts Christians with muslims and Dalits.

Muslims are not committing terrorism, it is the jews and Berahmins.. Or they are made to do that by Jews and Brahmins.

The christian bombing in Cairo is a plot by jews to make Musl;ims look bad.

111/26 is a brahmin conspiracy..

et al….

And Pakistan will be a heaven if only America leaves Afghanistan.. (yes Taseer would not have been killed, the Christian lady would not have been imprisoned and sentenced to die, Ahmadiyas would not have been killed, mosque and shrine bombings would not have happened, Al Queda would not have happened, ……….)

Christian lady would not have been imprisoned and sentenced to die, Ahmadiyas would not have been killed, mosque and shrine bombings would not have

she is not sentenced she is only arrested.tasseer or no taseer at the end she will be released..he lost life for being outspoken.a country where thousands and thousands are killed only through drones.every drone filght the ruling class take money.
dont consider everybody will be sheep.this big security lapse like in case of indira ghandhi.we never abuse jesus howmuch anger i have.

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These articles about “Who is responsible for Islamic Terroroism” serve no purpose. Let us talk about corruption which is eating into the vitals of this country.

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Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

You are right.. Terrorism coupled with endemic corruption is a recipe for disaster. I for one will not mind considering corruption as economic terrorism and arrest them , and do speedy trials, and put them in prison for a minimum of 15 years.. The lack of fear with loose moral standards and huge opportunities create environment for corruption ..

It is bureaucracy more than politicians at teh root of corruption. The IAS guys teach the incoming politicians all the loopholes and how to get away without getting caught.

I honestly believe something like teh US District Attorney system will work as a deterrence. It is high time the judicial system, the administrative system, and the regulations all modernized for this centuryy– most of the laws on the books and how they are administered are essentially like the old British system – inspector for this, inspector for that, permission for this..etc all opening up opportunities for graft

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shan Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

@Binoy, you cannot do without INSPECTORS, otherwise you will have to rely on the goodness of human nature, which is DODGY at best. It is not the INSPECTORS it is , CULTURE, POOR PAY, GREED, AND MOST IMPORTANT THIS BELEIF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. As you know the recent oil spill in gulf of Mexico , brought out a can of worms. As Obama himself said on TV , the officers in EPA have been ticking documents without even bothering to see what they are ticking. Obviuosly they are not doing it for free. SOME SWIFT AND EXEMPLARY PUNISHMENT will go a long way in deterring the corrupt officials.

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mr raju kurien,

faced by Muslims are with Jews (0.3% of world population, Brahmins (0.05% of world population),

raju not by muslims alone .98%of population of worlld is the victim of zionism and brhmnsm.in india brhmnsm has already achieved its objectives of enslaving indians.zoinism has yet to reach their objective.

wherever there is no america there is peace..america is killing innocent through drone to get get recruits to talban.india brhmns are forcing poverty upon indian by transferring development budget to war budget.creating naxals.naxals too are led by brhmns.

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ram autar Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 11:44 pm

Shoeb K Reply:

January 6th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

Mr Avtar

Contrary to your curses and ill-feelings

I DONT CURSE ANYBODY IT IS FACT OF LIFE.THIS FACT IS EFFECTING THE LIFE OF COMMON INDIANS.

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recently A popular cartoon strip in the Times of India on Thursday equated Pakistan’s controversial blasphemy laws with India’s statute against sedition. The widely loved children’s doctor Binayak Sen was recently given a life sentence under the law.

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shan Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

@Na sudherne wala Autar, the difference is 1. The judge( Sachar) and all the legal stalwarts like Jethmalani , has not and will be NEVER threatened with murder by RSS.
2. The people asking for repeal of the COLONIAL sedition law to repealed are FETED in TV shows.
3. The policemen escorting Dr Sen , has shown NO INDICATION of any MALICE towards him ;et alone MURDER. In fact TWO JAILERS HAD TURNED HOSTILE WITNESS .

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ram autar Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

u are right shan,in pakistan ruling class is opposed to this law or atleast its practical implementation.while masses wants this.while in india masses like sen while establishment support this typye of suppression.

pakistani have not are fed up their elite class ,as they live by suppresing and selling them.drone attack hardly kill any millitant 98%of victim are innocent local population.
while drones fly from pak terrotery ,for every attack they are paid.president takes 1 billion per day bribe.swallowing all development and educational budget.

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The “yoga guru” Ramdev Yadav, is a lower caste OBC. Why the Brahminists are carrying him on their heads and lavishing so much of publicity in their toilet papers?

The secret is he is dancing to the tunes of the Hindu terrorist party, RSS, which has permitted him to make tons of money and travel round the world. They are even considering a big political future for him to mislead the people.

You join the enemy camp, you will get name, fame, money — anything you want. Ultimately your name will become mud.

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Raju Kurien Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

Mr Ram

You have to stop your religious/caste hatred mongering – India is not like your country Pakistan.

RamDev is a great human being, whatever is his acste –nobody cares. Mata Amrithanada Mayii has worldwide following of millions; she comes a fishermen caste, and she is a female. The greatest poet/philosopher/writer of India, Veda Vyasa was born to a fisherwoman. The “adi Kavi”, first poet in the world, the writer of Ramayana, Valmiki, was a hunter.

So, you can go on perpetuating whatever you want; India will stride along. And we are quite sad what is happening to your country. May God provid e them the right sense, that all are Gods children; not just one set of Muslims (teh way your country is turning, looks like that Wahabis and Salafis will be the only true Muslims and all others – Barelvis, Shias, Ahmadiyas, Sufis etc become “infidels:.

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ram autar Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

Dalit, OBCs embrace Islam to escape Hindu racism
They spent money and performed this pooja. I heard abut this in prison. All of a sudden, one night I heard the sound of gunshots. I enquired the warden, whether there was any festival going on near the prison. He told me that the Raja passed away and the gun shots are fired to indicate the loss. When I learnt that the Rajah dead I had a melancholic feeling. Later I was glad, because the prayers by the Brahmins and orthodox Hindus to destroy their enemy had resulted in the death of the Maharaja. Their prayers did not harm the Vaikom agitators. The people were also happy. Subsequently we were all released on the ceremony day of Maharaja. Our enemies also lost their tone and tenor.

Later, the Maharani (queen) wanted to settle the problem by mutual talks. She wanted to discuss the problem with me. But the Diwan of the state, who was a Brahmin stood in the way of our talks and said that the Maharani should not talk to me directly. So he wrote a letter to Rajagopalachari. Rajaji knew that I would carry the laurels and earn the credit. So he cunningly decided to make the Maharani talk to Gandhi. It is because of this trick played by Rajaji, that Gandhi’s name was dragged in the history of Vaikom agitation. I did not much mind as to who personally gained the name and fame. I was not for any personal glorification. I only wanted the problem to be solved successfully.

Gandhi came and had talks with the Maharani. Maharani consented to throw open all the roads for the low caste sudras and Untouchables. But she expressed the fear that I would further continue the struggle seeking the right for Untouchables to enter the temple. Gandhi came to the Travellers Bungalow, where I was staying and asked me to express my opinion. I said “it is not a big thing to enable the Untouchables make use of the public roads. Even though temple entry is not at present one of the ideals of Congress, so far as I am concerned it is one of my main ideals. But you may inform the Maharani that for the present I have no such idea to launch a campaign for temple entry rights. Let things come to normal before I decide what to do”.

Gandhi informed the Rani and she proclaimed the right for all to make use of all the roads around the temple. This is how the low caste sudras and Untouchables got the right to use all roads, like the highest caste Brahmins and orthodox Hindus.

I was for some time the chairman of the Devasthana committee at Erode. When I was away, comrade S. Gurusamy and Ponnambalan and Eswran induced two Adi-Dravida workers in my office, to wear the sacred ashes (viboothi) on their foreheads and took them inside the temple. Seeing them, the Brahmins cried loudly that they had polluted the deity. They were locked up inside and a case was instituted. They were punished in the district court. But on hearing the appeal, the High Court released them as not guilty. That was during the British rule.

But, it was only at Suchindrum that the first agitation for temple entry was launched publicly. A Self-Respect Conference was also conducted under my presidentship. A number of resolutions were passed urging the abolition of castes and ensuring rights for the Untouchables to enter the temples.

Next, another conference was held at Ernakulam. In that Conference a resolution was passed condemning castes and urging Hindus to become Muslims, as there are no castes in Islam. Some others recommended Christianity through amendments. At last, the option was given to join any one of the above two religions.

One day, in Allepey one of the converts to Islam (who was a Pulayar by caste) went to purchase an article at a Nair shop. He was beaten up and it developed into a serious clash between Hindus and Muslims. Such clashes between Hindus and Muslims spread everywhere. The then Dewan, a Brahmin, Sir C.P. Ramasamy Iyer, put down the agitation with an iron hand. But the Rajah (king) was later informed that most of the low caste Untouchables like Ezhawas and Pulayars are becoming Muslims. He was also advised that there was no other go than to throw open all the temples for all untouchables to save Hinduism from the peril. (To

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Gopi Thomas Reply:
January 8th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

So what is your point? History is history.

Ezhavas are the richest Hindus in Kerala now. The present CM is an Ezhava. They are highly educated.

Looks like you still want to live in the past!

ram autar Reply:
January 7th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

The greatest poet/philosopher/writer of India, Veda Vyasa was born to a fisherwoman. The “adi Kavi”, first poet in the world, the writer of Ramayana, Valmiki, was a hunter.

valmiki was immigrant and dalit that is why his ramanaya is not kept in our homes.tulsidaas was nakalchi,his ramayna is kept because he was brhmn.

. Mata Amrithanada Mayii has worldwide following of millions; she comes a fishermen caste

fools are always ready to be fooled.now sai baba is most popular though he was muslim by birth and died as muslim.
brhmns know the marketing of bhagwans.last year i brought 2 very ugly carricatures from singapore ,a brhmn has assured me to make atleast one of them as the saviour of hindus.
now under testing period.a back story is also under fabrication.next 2 years u will see one ofthe biggest bhagwan of recent history.

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Supporters of Salman Taseer did not have a protest march. Possibly because they were afraid of their lives. Possibly because they knew army and police were on the side of the killer. For no member o f tehs ecurity detail shot the perpretator while he was shooting 24 rounds.

Supporters of the killer were jubiliant, throwing rose petals on the way, shouting All hu Akbar!

All in the land of the pure!

Either the country is totally paralyzed because of the non-stopping violence; or the country is nearing total destruction. Even Allah cannot save them.

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@Raju Kurien, Shoeb K et al,
Instead of reading cut and paste blogging, you might want to amuse yourself by visiting the source of Ram Autar’s posts.
http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/jan2011/reports.htm
You will learn that Mohammad Younus is actually a Jewish prop and even better, the British granting independence to India was also a Jewish plot. Read their editorial.
Priceless! Enjoy!

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Shoeb K Reply:
January 8th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

@Ashish – Thanks…

It is hilarious and sad!

I did get their caste/religious angles; but did not get why they are so happy that the IT industry in India is collapsing.. They were quite gleeful about that..

(also I was surprised it is published from Bangalore. Somewhere he was complaining about Dalits not heeding his requests for life subsctriptions etc; no wonder, because there are no Dalits (fitting his sterotype) in the South; most have taken the train; asserting in politics, sharing growth.. there was a recent interview with this young Dalit chip (not the eating type) manufacturer from Chennai, he talked about getting membership in Chennai Gymkhana club and Boat Club; he was wondering how far things have come, for 50 years ago his father could not have even stood at the gates of those clubs.)

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Ashish Reply:
January 8th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

Shoeb K,
India is changing more rapidly than a lot of us give her credit for.
There is a silent revolution on in the smaller towns- I have been interviewing entry level kids for the last 3 days; the experience has been humbling. I salute the spirit of these young kids- less than half my age- living on their own in strange towns, only wanting to make a mark in life.
They are coming from everywhere- Jhabua, Khanjarpur, Bareilly, Jaunpur, Varanasi (Yea), Palwal, Hardwar, Merut… young girls and boys from conservative families -often the first engineer/ MBA in the family- living alone in PGs.
Who cares for their caste? Or religion? They don’t give a damn, themselves.
The mystery of the subscriptions drying up for DV is easy to solve- while folks like you and me might enjoy browsing that website; no Dalit today, with his head screwed on right- wants to waste time reading drivel like that.
As for their glee regarding the IT industry- you need to think in equations.
Prosperous Indian= Brahmin or Bania … 1
IT industry owners/ employees= Prosperous Indians …2
Brahmin or Bania = Bloodsuckers … 3
—————————- ——————————————
Solving 1 and 2 above, we get IT industry owners = Brahmin/ Bania, who, as per 3 are bloodsuckers/ vermins and DV wishes they just rolled over and died.
Forgive my indulgence- just the enginer in me talking

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@shoebk, ashish, Guys, as much i applaud your effort to unmask ram autar as a bufoon, I THINK THERE IS NO GETTING AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT SCIENTIFIC DATA COLLECTION have consistently shown , the Dalits and Muslims are the bottom of the heap. Now there may be historical reasons , that they start with SUCH A LOW ECONOMIC AND EDUCATIONAL CAPITAL , that it is impossible for them acheive upward mobility, ON TOP OF THIS GOVT HELP IS SIPHONED OFF BY THE EXCLUSIVE UPPER CASTE GOVT BABUS. That the Dalits consistently suffer physical abuse , may be a reflection of their ECONOMIC HELPLESSNESS, just reflect on the news in NDTV , where a EIGHT year old boy who works as a servant , was FILMED being kicked by the sex deprived(my diagnosis) wife. I accept the surname being Gupta is not Bramhin. The same happened a year ago with a couple with surname Goswami(Bramhin) . Now tif this can happen in Delhi , JUST THINK ABOUT THE RED CORRIDOR. I am aware BRAMHINS HAVE BEEN IMPOVERISHED IN UP , according to a research by a french prof in some part of UP are in the same runk as dalits.But we do not hear about any physical violence directed against them. I came across a news from calcutta where a sex racket RUN BY A MAGISTRATE (upper caste) was busted one of the prostitute was a BANERJEE(kosher bramhin). So poverty is root cause at the moment.
But if we take pride in being different to pakistan and rest of islamic theocracy , then we should not be afraid to CONFRONT OUR DEMONS. In UK Lord Mcpherson concluded after the enquiry of the murder of black kid Stephen Lawrence in unequivocal term ENGLAND IS A RACIST COUNTRY. This makes UK stand out , in distinction to germany’Austria , France. In fact one English guy , whose forefather SIX GENERATION ago traded in AFRICAN SLAVES, went to GHANA and tied him in SHACKLES to the tree for several days as a penance. If ONE bramhin did would send a powerful SYMBOLIC MESSAGE.

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Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 2:59 am

Shan

There are various reasons, poverty being one, and may not be the topmost.

There are regional differences. When one looks into India, southern states are different from BIMARU states, different from western states.

Situation is bad for both Dalits and non-Dalits in BIMARU states.

New York Times, three months or so ago (I will try to unearth that) ran a story on Dalits in South India and North India. The report focused on how far Dalits in the South have come up; how they utilized the political clout, how they set up educational institutions etc ; whereas in the North they just focused on caste and caste only and nothing on education, leveraging clout etc.

I will not say it is Brahmins or whoever else to show an example. It is for people like Mayawati to use the opportunity and to develop the state (in the model of Modi) so jobs will be created. Caste baiting or religion baiting is not going to take anybody anywhere.

Dr Abdul Kalam, our esteemed President, had stated that he would not be where he is unless for his Brahmin Maths teacher in his high school. I am sure many will have similar stories and experience.

Dr Narayan Moorthy, a Brahmin, when he started Infosys, and made it a model company creating for the first time many millionaire employees in the country, he hired all capable employees, not just Brahmins. Infosys was the first “model” company from India to command the respect of worldwide companies.

And he and other IT leaders will be the first one to state that they would not be able to grow like they have been, but for the expansion of the education field by accommodating backward communities with reservations and special concessions. That gave them a larger pool to meet the international demands.

An India growing at 9-11% cannot afford anybody to be wasted. No Barahmin will say that they do not want Dalits to progress. We have to get out of this Brahmin/Dalit argument and go on with progress.

By the way, all the Barhmins I know are middle class or poor ; but quite focused on education and getting out of middle class and povety to higher levels due to the opportunities offered to educated people in modern india.

Let us make sure all get educated.

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@Blogger et al , some food for thought for ashish’s guru M Srinivas. This is a news that has caused quite a stir in UK. My opinion is of many factors RELIGION some how must have crept in. Perhaps inspired by the lines “Take your what your left hand commands”, also this constant referring of WHITE GIRLS as ***** is a throwback to decadent west /PURE ISLAM/ JIHAD inflicted on a sexual plane. Here is the news , judge for yourselves.

Speaking to the BBC’s Newsnight programme, Mr Straw said: “Pakistanis, let’s be clear, are not the only people who commit sexual offences, and overwhelmingly the sex offenders’ wings of prisons are full of white sex offenders.

“But there is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men … who target vulnerable young white girls.

“We need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way.”

The judge said he did not believe the crimes were “racially aggravated”, but Mr Straw said he thought vulnerable white girls were at risk of being targeted by some Asian men.

“These young men are in a western society, in any event, they act like any other young men, they’re fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan, typically,” he said.

“So they then seek other avenues and they see these young women, white girls who are vulnerable, some of them in care … who they think are easy meat.

“And because they’re vulnerable they ply them with gifts, they give them drugs, and then of course they’re trapped.”

Police in Derbyshire have insisted that the sexual abuse case should not be treated as a racial issue.

The sentencing of Saddique and Romaan came a day after Prime Minister David Cameron said “cultural sensitivities” should not hinder police action in such cases.

Speaking on Friday to The Times during a visit to Oldham, Mr Cameron said: “We should not be put off by cultural sensitivities or anything like that. Pursue the evidence, pursue criminality wherever it leads.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8247607/Pakistani-men-see-white-girls-as-easy-meat-claims-Jack-Straw.html
Telegraph

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Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 3:36 am

Shan

there were sevral cases of Pakistani Muslim girls getting killed by their fathers, brothers because they either dated American men or wanted to marry American men. these are not just one or two; but a fair number

Recently, a muslim woman was cut to pieces by her husband because 1) she was successful in a broadcasting business and 2) She wanted to divorce him and marry somebody else.

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Ashish Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

@Shan,
just curious- what was the reference to M N Srinivas for? Why would he be interested in this news- if he was alive (he is not)?
Just so that you know, M N Srinivas, perhaps the most celebrated sociologist in India, worked on the Hindu social structure and stratification. He died in 1999.

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shan Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

@Ashish, thanks for the information , i may have (i am not sure ) seen him in a BBC documenatary about India. Britain is at the moment at crossroads with all different forces both economic , religious, ethnic identity at work at the same time.he would have enough material to explore the reasons why certain immigrants have done so well , while others(both white, brown and black), yellow doesn’t figure) are prone to a certain kind of behaviour.

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Binoy, as it happens, RELIGION is a factor here, judge for yourself
f those convicted are also in their 30s.

One other feature in the abuse must be the view, held by a substantial minority of British Muslims, that the Western lifestyle is immoral or degenerate. Only two weeks ago, the East London Mosque, the largest mosque in Britain’s largest Muslim community, held an event condemning “child-rearing in the Western context” as a “social ill”.

This mosque, and many others, has also hosted events condemning music, immodest dress and the wearing of perfume. A young Muslim man brought up on that sort of diet is less likely to treat a white girl in a short skirt with respect.

But the East London Mosque, and many other such havens of hatred and extremism, was, at least until recently, treated by the white political establishment as a respectable, mainstream institution. And that brings us to the sense of denial by some white liberals, and their refusal to hold Muslims to the standards they expect in others.

Last year, this newspaper told how more than £100,000 of public money was paid to two schools with connections to the racist, extremist group Hizb ut Tahrir – the Muslim equivalent of the BNP. The headmistress of one described English as “the most dangerous subject a school can teach”. If the BNP had been given public money to run schools, it would have been stopped. But the then schools secretary, Ed Balls, defended the paymen

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After reading all the comments, here, one is prompted to write :

It is RELIGION that is at fault. Let’s have more humanity and less of ” organized” religion.

God is not dead, but religion is for the insane.

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Morethan 60,000 people marched in Karachi today to keep the blasphemy law as it is ; which means politicians will be scared to chnage it (for fear of murder like that happened to Punjab governor)…so persecution of minorities, like the illiterate woman who is sentenced for death, will continue.

Even Allah cannot save Pakistan!

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ram autar Reply:
January 10th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

raju blashphemy law was imposed from british days.law is good but reduce punishment.muslims never speak bad words about jesus or hindu gods why christian lady spoke bad words about prophet mohammed.
any how as per islam if she says sorryand was rage.she will be freed.forgiveness is considered the best virtue in islam.

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Mumtaz Mir Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 3:09 am

Yes Raju it was only 40,000 but lets agree with your numbers. Out of 18 million people only 60000. At your record of treatment of minorities, not a very rosy picture.

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Well first !! i request not to blame any religion.
The conspiracy and dirty mind have always played trick, Afghanistan is having good history of tribal warfare, Afghanistan straight from British era 1st Afghan war 1839-42 -1878-80 wars always conflict zone. Even British leaves, Afghans un-touch after ups and downs of diplomacy and wars !!
It was not new the Afghanistan was under threat from Russia, same happened during British era, more over that part of land always falls into the world of diplomacy. from Mafias [drugs], smuggling of illegal things and tribal / clan plays important role in development.
Now as Al Qaida is against is former friends, Russia is their supporters [in arms], ever wonder from where / how are available A-47 and Russian mafia lords of drugs are also on high rise into this game of dirty payback !!!!
So nothing to do with Islam or Islamic terrorist, if so called islamic terrorist where such a big threat then today Israel may not exists [i am not against Israel] as you all think, whole world is after so-Islamic terrorist, one some weird Ideology is around where secular minds are not able to win and liberals play dirty trick.
Pakistan is paying for what is had done in past !! Supporting the radical and extremist is answer to all this, i hope India, China, and all the up coming nations stand up against all type of Radicals !!

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shan Reply:
January 10th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

@fidatoh, RELIGION AND TERRORISM IS THE SCOURGE OF MODERN CIVILIZATON. Imagine you and your family in the world trade centre, Victoria terminus (Ok chatrapati shivaji terminus) rail station on 26/11, or travelling by a train , OR TRY GETTING A VISA WITH YOUR SURNAME ANYWHERE BAR ISLAMIC COUNTRIES

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ram autar Reply:
January 10th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

shan,add samjhauta express as well.

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shan Reply:
January 11th, 2011 at 1:01 am

I would include not only samjhauta express , but malegaon masjid, jaipur masjid,hyderabad masjid , and anybody found guilty (which should not be difficult) should be sent to the gallows.Now how about a similar action across the border.then again I am a rational Humanist, the otherside is sunk in darkness of ignorance and bigotry.

Mumtaz Mir Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 3:07 am

No shan you will protect those hindu terorist but point fingers at others.

shan Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

@mumtaz Mir, if you follow the news which i am doing 5000 miles away, ASSEMANAND has been nabbed and col purohit and pragya thakur is having chakki ke atta , WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE HANDLERS OF 26/11.

ram autar Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

how about a similar action across the border.then again I am a rational Humanist

ACROSS THE BORDER THEY ARE BOMBING KILLING.BUT WHY WE SHOULD COMPETE IN STUPIDITIES.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE HANDLERS OF 26/11.

THEY WERE KILLED EXCEPT ONE IN ARTHUR`JAIL.KASAB IS ILLETERATE DOING FOR MONEY.PUROHIT AND HIS GANG FAR BIGGER DIABOLIC OBJECTIVES.

ram autar Reply:
January 10th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

zoinist and brhmnst jarethe only satanic cousins who conspire war violence terrorism all over the globe.

go to you tube open last jew of iraq.this last jew give lecture to school boys.says,IRAQ WAS GAREN OF EDEN WHLE THIS PLACE IS ISRAHELLjews in iraq were living a good life while in israel they are treated 3rd class citized.thousands have run away to america.most of the russian jews have gone back..

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ram autar Reply:
January 10th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

raju keep this list of hindu terrorits serving jail term,

Key accused
(1). Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit (37): He is the brain behind the Sept.29, 2008 blasts and the man that held it all together. He was the founder and one of the chief fund-raisers of the Pune-based organisation, Abhinav Bharat. He is also accused of procuring the RDX that was used in the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.5, 2008).

(2). Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur (38): Her bike was used to plant the bomb in Malegaon, and she is accused of engineering the blast. She has a Masters in History, and became a sadhvi in Jan.2007. (She was arrested on Oct.23).

(3). Rakesh Dhawde (35): Dhawde, an arms expert, has been booked for four previous bomb blast cases. He provided the required weapon training and supplied arms to Purohit. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(4). Swami Dayanand Pandey alias Shankar Acharya alias Sukhakar Dwuvedi (40): He can be seen as the key point man and is said to have been present at the meetings held in Bhopal, Pune and Faridabad before the Malegaon blasts. He is also accused of conducting meetings with the other accused. Prior to his arrest, he ran two ashrams in Kanpur and Jammu and Kashmir. (He was arrested on Nov.14, 2008).

(5). Retd. Maj. Ramesh Upadhyaya (64): A resident of Akurdi, Pune, he worked with the military’s intelligence unit, and is suspected to have provided the training required for procuring and assembling the bombs. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(6). Ajay Rahrikar (39): He was the treasurer of the Abhinav Bharat, and a part of the fund-raisers group. He paid Rs. 2.5 lakh to Swami Dayanand Pandey prior to the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(7). Jagdish Mhatre (40): A habitual criminal and an accused in a murder and an extortion case in Kalyan and Thane, he is believed to have paid Dhawde for the weapons. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(8). Sameer Kulkarni (32): A former member of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidhyarthi Parishad (ABVP), he was employed at a printing press. He is suspected to have supplied the chemicals used in the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(9). Sudhakar Chaturvedi (37): Originally a resident of Mirzapur in UP, Chaturvedi was picked up from Deolali where he stayed in a rented room. He is accused of conspiracy; the bomb was assembled in his house. (He was arrested on Nov.4, 2008).

(10). Sham Bhanwarlal Sahu (42): He is suspected to be one of the bomb planters. A commerce graduate from Christian College in Indore, Sahu has a mobile phone shop and also acted as a realty broker. He is also accused of abetting the blasts and conspiracy. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

(11). Shivnarayan Kalsangra Singh (36): A BSc graduate, Singh is seen as a “mechanical and electrical” expert by the ATS. He is suspected to have assembled the timer device while making the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

12 aseemanand

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Brahminism is a cultural octopus that kills its victims without causing any pain or injury. It quietly embraced Urdu, once the language of a major portion of India, and finally killed it.

Today, what is spoken in the cow belt is Urdu but called Hindi. What is called as Hindi film is nothing but Urdu film.

Bangalore: Eminent Urdu writer Waris Alvi said on March 6 that the number of Urdu writers from the Hindu and Sikh communities had dwindled. He regretted that the Urdu language was slowly being confined to Muslims and Islam alone.

Addressing national seminar on Urdu organised by Central Sahitya Academy and Karnataka Urdu Academy here, he recalled with nostalgia the inspiration the Urdu language had given to various nationalist movements. “It used to serve as an oxygen mask for various movements, including nationalist ones”, he said.

He recalled the contribution of writers like Rajinder Singh Bedi, Krishan Chand and Premchand, who reflected Indian culture in Urdu works.

The large number of Hindu and Sikh Urdu writers had enriched the language unlike the present day Urdu literature, which is predominantly by Muslims, he said. (Hindu March 7, 2009).

Urdu is not the only victim of Brahminical octopus. Ayur Vidya, the science of longevity brought to India by Ezhavas from Lanka is renamed Ayurveda. Yoga, the ancient Dravidian or Adi-Dravida art, is appropriated into Hinduism.

The famous Mughalai food of the Muslims, is renamed “Punjabi food”. Yakshagana of Karnataka and Kathakali of Kerala, essentially the dance-drama of the local population were swallowed by Brahminism by making it a propaganda media to popularise their **** and bull stories called puranas.

History subverted: History itself has been subverted. The ferocious anti-Brahmin Jainism and Budhism were swallowed by the octopus.

Even a giant like Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar did not even know or hear the Lotus Sutra in which Budha propounded his famous Shaku Buku, martial art theory to fight and finish the Brahminical enemies.

Budha himself was going round with sword in hand killing the enemies.

Brahminical people killed Budhism and depicted the ferocious fighting Budha as a cross-legged sadhu with closed eyes under eternal contemplation. Brahminism did not spare anything that remotely challenged its poisonous values. This is called Indianisation, the other name for Brahminisation.

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We all know that radicalism is rampant in today’s islamic countries..n to sum xtent in hindu socities….evrybody is busy pointing finger towards swami Aseemanand…bt jus fr a moment thnk…if dts wt it takes to save one religion from another one….dn he is d Hero….M nt praising him…he shud b sent to gallows…wid dt comprehensive list above…wid sadhvi n army man…n blah blah blah..d list nvr ends….bt y is nobody even commenting on 26/11,jaipur bombings..whr innocent devotees wr slaughtered…n d nearby areas whr dey ran to save their lives…wr d havens of so called minorities…n dey happily allowd their streets to b used for bomb plantings….
Bt since its a huge votebank…Sri Rahul Gandhiji is busy pointing fingers at RSS n other Hindu Outfits….
I pray to God…that we all die in 2012…else we all will eventually die killing each other…..

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ram autar Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

even golwalkar was caught wit bomb making material in 1930.IN MEERUT.

BOMB KA AUR RSS KA CHOLEE DAMAN KA SATH HAI.IN GANDHI METTING ALSO THEY USE TO EXPLODE THE BOMBS.

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ram autar1 Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

This ram-autar guy is funningly fake. He doesn’t understand that once al qaida is PROVED (not alleged) terrorist orgn then naming its functionaries from top leader down to a sweeper doesn’t increase the effect nor instances of proof. also the point to be noted, for more logical ppl, is the admission in some article in dawn that it took almost 60 yrs for hindus to retaliate aginst the violence on them. also fr retaliatory theory see: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?265896
if this is true its imp to take honest steps to prevent one more community from being dragged into this abyss.

Also does this boy have history-writing machine at home where he is taught that child was born before her mother and its a conspiracy of xyz to show things as they really are. he lacks the understanding of things in their context. he will even claim that gandhi and mandela were jaild many times hence proved they were terrorists. pity you friend.

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ram autar Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 4:25 am

ram autar i there was no voilence on hindus(brhmns).they were ally of moghuls and britishers.they enjoyed during their period.it is brhmmn who hurt everybody.all the time.now they are looting india.before they were helping britishers to loot india.

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“what use have i of a god who needs me to defend him”-

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ram autar Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

we make them we sell them we declare them as god then we throw them in gutters and bought new one.

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Ravi Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

Mohan

What a great quote.

Khuda tarash liya, aur bandagi kar li.

Isi tarah se basar humnay zindgi kar li.

GOD does not need you, he can look after himself.

Where as god is a politican concept and he does verymuch need you

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even commenting on 26/11,jaipur bombings..whr innocent devotees wr slaughtered

all were acts of hindu zoinists.26/11 was handiwork on fbi,cia,isianf brhmnst of IB.

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Narendra Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:15 pm

U seriously believe that 26/11 was done by an agency other than ISI….
if thats the case than Kasab is not a Pakistani n instead Swami Aseemanand is a Jihadi!!!!!!!

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shan Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

@Narendra, you seriously beleive ram autar has any functioning analytical faculty of brain.

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ram autar1 Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

true. ignore the ramautar -McDoom. he is a serious sap on energy.

ram autar Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

SHAN AWNSER it was joint game of operation OF FBI ,NON STATE ACTORS OF PAKISTAN AND BRHMNST OF IB.had many targets,

1.finish karkare as next day he had press conference in which he was going to expose true culprit of bomb blasts in indian cities.brhmnst finished them in first 15 minute of operation.
2.increase tension between india and pakistan,AIM,to push pakistan to act militariy against his own people all over pakistan.target achieved.due to serious threats of attack from india ,zardari succumbed to american pressure of killing his own people.
3.kasab a illetrate is paid gunmen,he did this act for money, while aseemanand is terrorist,and traitor,out to destroy the unity and integrity of india acting on intruction of international divisive forces acting in india.

4.after confession of aseemanad(can read on tehelka),u can understand the skill of indian police.
32 people (muslims)are languishing in jails from many years.police destroyed their life.script of charges against them was written by brhmnsts.

5.in police story against kasab ,also there are many flaws.kasab says that he came to india via samjhata bus.his ticket and passport confirms this.while police storey says he came via boat.
where he learned fluent maharashtrian language.
6.leopold resturant was attacked by people of european origin.as per witnesses who are still alive.why no enquiry.
7.as per postmortem report jewish couple were killed nsg bullets.who killed.
8.3 terrorist cannot fight with nsg for so long and kill and rape so many men women and children at the same time.it means,there was another group of different denomination in hotel.to whom escape was provided while they were ditched.
9.most important question,who killed terrorist and tried to hide their identity by mutiliating their faces.
10 david was fbi was fbi agent not isi.why gunmen were very selective on burka clad women.
11.why police did not reach to help of karkare for more than an hour.how come gunmen reaimed at railway station for so long.
12 why NO ENQUIRY COMMISSION IS NOT ESTABLISHED SO FAR TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
why rss and other brhmnst start jumping in parliament whenever somebody asks for this.

i am sure today or tommorow some brhmnst like aseemanand will come &tell the truth to world.

what is happening is for public consumption.why home minister of maharashta goes again and again to kasab cell.
pakistan govt is flooded problems and fighting for survival.brhmnst and americans were main benefiary of this act.terror module was purchased from pakistan.

SHAN AWNSER.

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mr narendra ,i have listened that talk.i dont deny that a **** terror module was hired to excute the job.but they were non state actors.main perpetuators and planners were indian brhmnst.i was expecting itemized awnser from u.jehadis usually fight with occupiers.sanghis cut the children into in front of their mothers.in every riot u can see this.
mr narendra , If any good-hearted, far-sighted, impartial, noble historian were to come in future, she or he can write the sordid, atrophied, violent, criminal past of India only in letters of blood.

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ram autar Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 12:12 am

sorry shan aboveis also for u.whether this telephonic discussion was fake or correct i dont know.only impartial enquiry could establish this.why brhmnst are avoiding enquiry ,u can understand.

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Zia seems to think that Islamist terror started in 1979. Islamist terrorism has been flourishing pretty well for a long period of time before 1979 without the help of the US,UK and the rest of the usual suspects. Zia indulges in finger pointing and claims of Islamic victimhood. This is a hallmark of various apologists for Islamist terror who can be found in any social media of your choice. It’s very sad that such attitudes have infected Indian Muslims too.

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The hypocrisy of the folks involved is painfully apparent.

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yes he’s the captain!!
he has his own good team of sailers to wipe out the messy floor!!!

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He is gone when India needed him the most

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To expect present government to implement Justice Verma’s report to be enforced is like living in fools paradise. Only people of India can do it, vote out all the goons, elect new office bearers. Question will be to whom to trust? Do we have to wait another 60 years for right team? Come one young voters, change the scenario at next 2014 election. Find one only powerful man to do the job and let him put his team.

RIP Justice Verma, you will be remembered, telling the Delhi rulers on how to clean up and stop parliament being taken over by criminals and corrupts.

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He was very Nice person for fight a Justice to everyone .He was very helpful person for make law against stoping a violence against woman .He was make a strict law against Rapist and give a Justice to everyone .

http://www.prlog.org/12112705-6pm-coupon-code-extra-savings-up-to-75-enjoy-2013s-big-deal.html

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