Rahul Gandhi: Punished for plainspeaking

Imagine. If a politician and a foreign diplomat on a flight were to discuss terror, without anyone hearing them, and the politician does some plain-speaking in the process, is it treachery? Obviously not, unless the diplomat had other intentions.

This weekend, remarks Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi purportedly made to the US Ambassador — that radicalised Hindu groups poses a big threat — exposed him to some vilest attacks.

What went unnoticed is that, in demonising Gandhi, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came out squarely in defence of far-right Hindu extremist groups, whose violent activities have come to light. Everytime, a Muslim commits an act of terror, my head hangs in shame. On the contrary, the BJP is seen backing terrorists of one shade, rather than distancing itself from them.

I do not draw any vicarious pleasure from arrests of certain Hindus for alleged acts of terror. With every new terrorist born, we only become more unsafe. But when Muslims suspected alleged usual witch-hunting of the ‘usual suspects’, the entire community was tainted with the same brush of terror. But, as the saying goes, whatever man has done, man may do. BJP leader L K Advani pleaded with the Prime Minister for a woman Hindutva activist arrested for alleged terror links.

I have often said that the BJP’s long-term prospects hinges on their (so far missing) efforts to build capacity to represent all sections of society, not one. Hindutva may have been a short-term asset, but it is a long-term liability.

This is a nation of vast chunks of diverse ethnic, cultural and religious electorates. It’s a salad bowl, where ingredients of different shapes, sizes and colours come together to form one whole, while retaining their original flavours.

Now, let’s do some plainspeaking on what Gandhi said, to begin with? For one, he did not say that radicalized Hindu extremists were a “bigger threat” than the LeT, the Pakistani terror outfit, as is being made out to be.

There was a sweet little distortion weaved in by the RSS and the BJP. BJP leader Ravi Shankar Prasad used this twist and some atrocious adjectives to punish Gandhi’s plainspeaking.

Here’s the relevant portion from Ambassador Timothy Roemer’s cable, sourced to Wikileaks:

“5. (C) Responding to the Ambassador’s query about Lashkar-e-Taiba’s activities in the region and immediate threat to India, Gandhi said there was evidence of some support for the group among certain elements in India’s indigenous Muslim community. However, Gandhi warned, the bigger threat may be the growth of radicalized Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations with the Muslim community.”

From the above paragraph, three things weighing on Gandhi’s mind are apparent. One, Gandhi looks concerned about support among certain elements of Indian Muslims for the LeT. Two, in comparison to this, growth of Hindu radical groups could be the “bigger threat” to deal with.

So, he wasn’t quite weighing the threats posed by the LeT vis-à-vis Hindu radical groups. When he said far-right Hindu extremists were a bigger threat, it was in relation to the local moles the LeT may have.

Obviously, LeT supporters in India would be minuscule compared to the expanding support base of radical Hindu outfits. So, what was so treacherous about what Gandhi said?

Overall, these two points together talk of threats India faces from extremists in both communities.

Gandhi may have suffered a moment of naivety by confiding in a foreign diplomat, who reported the conversions back to his bosses. Frankly, diplomats all over the world routinely do this. They would be failing in their duty if they did not help their establishments make sense of domestic politics in countries they are posted.

For all the brouhaha, Gandhi wasn’t whispering any secret into Roemer’s ears. Gandhi has aired his concerns over radicalism in Indian society in public before. On October 6, 2010 in Bhopal, he called both the RSS and Students Islamic Movement of India organizations with extremist ideologies.

The BJP has argued that, by highlighting the threats posed by Hindu radical groups, Gandhi has given Pakistan the upperhand. But can we afford to mete out a disproportionate response to terror? Can we, for the phantom fear of Pakistan, choose to put the lid on one source of terror, while constantly focusing on the other? A counter-terrorism that is selective is a lame horse, at best.

Muslims today are quite aware of and acknowledge the problem posed by Islamist extremism. It affects their lives in more debilitating ways.

But for those led to believe that only Muslims could be terrorists, evidence to the contrary is mounting. The RSS and its acolytes seek to eliminate our cultural and religious diversity. They seek to foist a monolithic Hindutva (literally, being Hindu) character that militates against our plurality. (If its vision and ideology is any different, I stand corrected.)

Years of promoting intolerance, majoritarianism and hatred have caused far-right Hindutva outfits to tether on the edge of terrorism. Only hypocritical politicians can choose to ignore this disturbing fact.

(36 votes, average: 1.92 out of 5)

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Posted by Zia Haq on Sunday, December 19, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Filed under India · Tagged

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Ravi

I have long suggested that RSS and LeT are comparable.

Read “The Clash Within” by Martha C Nussabaum.

It is an eye opener.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
The last time I checked RSS did not train suivcide bombers and send them to other countries to create havoc.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
S Singh

Not sure what your point is.

RSS trains and sends Saffron terrorists to Gujarat, Pune, Orissa, etc.

They may not go abroad, but they are still a TERRORIST organization.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Well, there are terrorists,a nd then there are terrorists. If you and Zia compares a Mumbai 11/26, organized by LeT to the amateur little things RSS is alleged to have done; sorry, sir, You can go on telling… No credibility.

Indians will make decision on whether RSS is more dangerous than LeT. They will make it visible on the enxt election.

Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
S Singh

I am afraid I vehemently disagree with you.

Whilst I acknowledge that Mumbai was a dramatic act, but so was the riout in Gujarat which was directly orchesterated by RSS and VHP volunteers.

Further more the Dalits of India have been so oppressed (a form of terrorism) effectivley and for so long that people, including me, for a long time did not even recognise it as a form of terrorism.

Gopi Thomas Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Well, Congress party is at its usual game – appeasing Muslims,, or they think they can get Muslim votes by throwing bombs at RSS.

Digvijay has been on a campaign (about karkare talking to him two hours before his death) and then again yesterday comparing RSS with Nazis.

He and Rahul (well, he is also not known for his intelligence, having attended three colleges and not graduating from anywhere) live in yesterday’s world – the world that thought Muslims and Hindus will kill each other afterAyodhya, that people will accept G2 Spectrum issue as any other issue, that Adarsh corruption will not see the light of the day etc.. And they thought Rahul will bring Bihar to Congress. Muslims in Bihar and women in Bihar failed the Pundits by voting for Nitesh.

The electoral calculus has changed for better; Bihar and UP will not send too many congressMPS , AP will not send many congress MPs, theyw ill have to have DMK alliance,…. And hate mongering on RSS will not bring Muslims to Congress as in the past.

More about terrorism later

Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Gopi

One could say, that you are at your usual tricks, denying the threat posed by RSS as a Saffron Terrorist organisation.

In the long run the Terrorism as a political strtaegy has faied every where it has been used.

It will fail for LeT (Pakistan Military) and it will fail for RSS too.

Ashish Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Ravi,
…and, you are upto, what? Your tricks are “un-usual”?
The Indian media is full of people like you: Barkha, Sanghvi, Rajdeep, Vinod Sharma.. we have been hearing your ad nauseam for the past many years. Were it not for guys like Prasannarajan of I Today, the sheer ludicrousness of your arguments will not find a voice in mainstream mesia.

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Ashish

Was there a point to this. If it was then I did not get it.

What is wrong with Barkha, Sanghvi, Rajdeep, Vinod Sharma..etc…do their views irk you.

Are they not entitled to their views.

Or the point that you are trying to make and failing to do is that you do not like Liberal Views and that you are against them.

Fine that is you right, just as it is our right to say what we think,

We think that HINDU RIGHT is a clear present danger.

I don’t know which Main Stream Media you read, but the ones that I read are mostly Liberal and are very aware of RSS’s shenanigans.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Ravi–
Who are “we”? Is it the Pakistani “elite”? Muslim populace in India? Your felow Muslim radicals? Your fellow Pakistanis?

Why dont you just speak for yourself?

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Binoy

By we I mean Liberal Indians, rather than H I N D U F U N D O’s and S A F F R O N T E R R O R I S T S, like YOU

Ashish Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
@Ravi
First the statutory declaration:
We stopped reading HT at home when Vir Sanghvi was “outed” as the bought out hack that he is; we read Indian Express and TOI – both with varying degrees of scepticism.
Regarding Barkha “tell me what I should tell them” Dutt, who delivered and was thus mentioned in approving tones thus “Manish Tewari ka statement aa gaya, Barkha ne karwa liya”; well, what more can I say? We have stopped watching NDTV because it was bad enough that they were selling gadgets under the guise of a current affairs programme; now their political editor is dealing in minister-ships. Oh dear!
Sample Rajdeep Sardesai’s profound statement on tweeter- let there be a all party government in Kashmir; include Geelani in it- the only solution. To which I responded, great idea! Why not have a all party government in India and call Kishanji to be the PM?
I shall not bother with Vinod Sharma- he is too insignificant.
Now, let me be explicit. I do not care about labels such as liberal or secular or rightist. I abhor hypocricy. I hate the fact that these bunch of dictation takers have been calling themselves journalists while only being smart salesmen. And, it just happens to be a coincidence that all these so called journalists belong to the “liberal” camp.
Mouthing liberal dialogues makes a liberal not! Arundhati cosies up to the tribals; that is her right- but, she could do without that cosy bunglow in forest land, could she not?
Sure, it is your right to talk about anything under the sun; but, I feel we get enough of that with Manish Tiwari on TV every night.

Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:18 am
Ashish.

It saddens me to read this.

I do not know any journalist who does not do CORPORATE work, doing PR, some product endorsement etc. The fact that these people compromise their integraty for paltry pecuniary gains is regrettable.

However, that does not discredit them entirely to the extent that ALL their views become suspect. Vir Sanghvi has been a Liberal all his life. He was a Liberal analyst and an Editor before he sold out to corporate interests and he is a Liberal after that. Should he suddenly start expressing ultra right wing views, then I will accept your view.

Until then I think he makes fair enough points.

The fact the career journalists are hypocrites should not come as a surprise to you and it certainly does not surprise me. I am a reader and not an un-critical fan.

The point is to attack or accept the point being made and not the author.

The above also applies to all other journos you mentioned.

S Singh Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
The last time i checked Indian constitution did not allow suppression of anybody by anybody. And there are courts and processes .

If you want to be a Pakistani and Msulim sympathizer, it is your freedom in this country.

Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
S Singh

Last time I checked no one in India gave a flying ***** about the constitution.

Opression is SANCTIFIED in Hindu Religion.

If you want to be an appeaser of SAFFRON TERRORISM it is your right too.

S Singh Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Well, Pakistanis do not have a constitution, and even if, they do n ot care..It is the land of the Pure blessed by Allah pubh. Oh by the way, does Indias constitution have a state religion and provisions to preserve its practices

Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
S Singh

I dont much care what Pakistan does or not do.

I dont compare our selves with them.

I am more concerned with what we do.
ram autar

hindutva is brhmnsm.like zoinism they have plan plan to continously keep india under civil war and kill as many people as people.hindu-muslim no difference.they are brhmns,not hindu nor muslims.can kill their own brother if neccesary.they control media.hate is their duty.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Mr Autar

I request you to stick to the discussion subject rather than going all over. You are causing people not to particpate.

Make points relevant to the subject.. Please , a request

[Reply]
Ravi

RSS is Funded by Hindus living in USA.

When people in the US make donations to charity, they naturally want to get the charitablev deduction. ……Maryland-based International Development and Relief Fund (IDRF). In November 2002 Sabrang Communications, a group connected to Teesta Setalvad and her excellent investigative work in Gujarat, published a report online titled The Foreign Exchange of Hate: IDRF and the American Funding of Hindutva. The report had a long list of authors, bt the primary author appears to have been Biju Mathew, who holds an endowed chair in the College of Business Administration at Rider University in Lawrenceville, New Jersey.

….According to the report, very little of the money donated to IDRF goes directly to charitable work; two thirds is channelled to organizations under the umbrella of the RSS, which often have a variety of purposes other than poverty relief. All in all, less than 20 percent of the funds go to organizations that are not openly sectarian or affiliated with the Sangh parivar. Sometimes poverty relief is closely connected to conversion or “Hinduization”, encouraging people, usually in rural areas, to become more observant in traditional Hindu practices, or to return to them if they have converted to another religion. Some of the money is used for “purely religious” purposes. Even the welfare money that is given is frequently doled out in a sectarian way. Finally, several of the RSS organizations to which money flows are “directly involved in large scale violence against Muslim and Christian minorities”.

From The Clash Within, Martha C Nussabaum, page 306-7

RSS is a clear and present danger to India and is spreading.

[Reply]
Meg Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Ravi,

How about the money flowing from all over the world especially from America and Europe to the many organizations that proselityze in India? What do you say about NLFT and many other terrorist organizations in North Eastern India who have banned Durga and Saraswati Puja in Tripura? Who do you think funds all these militant groups? What about the “Nagaland for Christ” agenda of NSCN. You and Martha Nussabaum do not seem to speak on the crimes against humanity going on in North East India.

We all can find books to quote that further our beliefs. You have done exactly that. Being an American and having brought up around Christian surroundings, I can tell you that the demographic change that is being brought by the missonary activities in North East and other places in India should be a bigger worry for you and your country. Especially when the newly introduced religion espouses rejection of one’s tradition.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:07 am
Meg

I am sure you are right. The American evangelists are a danger to any one not just India.

I will accept that my response was selective and not comprehensive, I was contributing to a blog and not writing a balanced academic paper. So I selected items which illustrate my point.

Yes of course you can chose and quote from a book. Though I note that you did not.

Why?

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Meg, are you a protestant, or even more plausible an atheist and a humanist.

[Reply]
Gautam Gulati

“”Everytime, a Muslim commits an act of terror, my head hangs in shame”".

Mr. Zia my head hangs in shame if I hear of any INDIAN commiting an act of terror irrespective
of whether he is a hindu,muslim, christain or sikh.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Gautam

Well said.

Terrorism has no religion, it can and is practised by people who belong to all possible religions.

[Reply]
Shakil Ahamed Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Dear Gautam,

Your are cent percent right. Whenever Indians come on crime screen I feel same as you.

[Reply]
Vikram Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:00 am
Very well said I agree with you

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Zia is smoking something (is pot smoking “allowed” by the Book?) when he is giving equal weights to worldwide Islamic terrorism to any other terrorism in today’s world. It is like water drop and ocean…ISlamic terrorism is the compelling danger today; US and otehr countries are spending untold amount of money and soldiers to eradicate this menace. India, with its proximity to the terrorist headquarters Pakistan, and with many Indian Msulims sympathetic to Pakistan and Kashmiri causes,a nd also being “rajyadrohi”, should be vigilant and leave no stoine unturned.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Binoy

So you agree that Hindu Right uses terrorism as a political weapon, but in your view that is a drop in comparison to Islamic terrorism, which is an ocean.

Well firstly even a drop is too much and that does not make it right.

A drop when seen close up – i.e. in India – then it appears larger than a far off ocean.

I have said it before and will say it again. Hindu terrorism is a greater danger to India than Muslim terrorism is, because it is so wide-spreade and ingrained into the Hindu Right polity.

Before you accuse me, I love Hinduism, just not Hindu Right

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Well (assuming you are an Indian and not Pakistani– jury is still out) you live in a free country and you can have your opinions. While i am against all violence and terror; I do not believe, even if there is something aclled Hinwata terror, India is mortally threatened by the spectre of Hindwata terror. My belief, based on actuals and observations and projections, is that Islamists (both domestic and from abroad) pose a existential threat to India. Not only to In dia, but to many other countries too.

The term Saffron terror, hindwata terror etc are coined by congressparty to divide Indians

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:13 am
Binoy

In that case we are at opposite ends of this argument.

I am less fearful of Islamic Terror, than I am of Hindu Right terror.

The first one will soon go away; the second one is in ascendancy

Kunal Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:49 am
lol….the first one will soon go away ? …islamic terror is on the decline is it …..osama bin laden was seen shaking hands with obama last night on cnn. it’s peace in the middle east and the whole world coz islamic terror is SOON GOING AWAY …

that’s awesome news mate …

oh ya and hindu terror is on the ascendancy …might have full scale hindu riots…muslims beware your population of 13 or so crores is going to be wiped out soon…

ravi seems to be smoking some heavy concoction of marijuana , ecstancy and ice
Ravi

SAFFORON TERRORISTS REACT TO THE TRUTH.

“Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi and Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray on Saturday tore into Rahul Gandhi for his alleged remarks that “radicalised Hindu groups” may be a bigger danger than Islamist terrorists. Speaking to newspersons in Mumbai on Saturday, Modi said Rahul’s comments only helped Pakistan.”

So chief suspects are saying in a christmas pantomime style – Oh No We Are Not

[Reply]
ram autar

President Obama and other Western leaders are repeatedly asking the Muslims to stop “terrorism” so that they can call off their “war on terrorism”.

There is lot of hypocrisy on this newly popularised term “terrorism”. The Western war on terrorism is nothing but a war on Muslims — plain and simple.

This war is nothing but a zionist conspiracy carried out by the Western Christian leadership at the behest of Jews.

This is because all the Western Christian countries are controlled by the Jews with the help of their money power, media and Christian stooges.

Even a child knows it.

Muslims refused to be fooled: It is the American Jews, who control that country and managed Obama election. It is they who managed to make him utter sweet words to Muslims at Cairo and elsewhere.

But the Muslims refused to be fooled. The Jewish engineered war on Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq resulted in disastrous defeat of US.

Obama later tried to fool the Muslims on Palestine. But here also he failed because the zionist Jews are not prepared to budge even an inch on Palestine.

Any amount of his pouring milk to the serpent is no use. Serpent will continue to bite Obama.

China on top of world: Western Christian leaders, led by the US which is controlled by its 2% Jews, are defeated in their war on terror. The Jews with their monopoly over the media, have launched a hurricane of Islamophobia. But nothing is working.

Rise of Iran: The disgusted Jews got Obama defeated in the recent Congressional elections. Nor are they giving any opportunity for him to succeed in Palestine.

China has already come on the top of the world and USA is getting weakened. With the defeat in Afghanistan, USA is preparing to pack up.

Iran is fast becoming a nuclear power and its political power has expanded with Iraq coming under its sway. Turkey turning against West is another big defeat for the West.

If the Western Christian rulers, who are still in the grip of Jews, are tired of their war on terror, the only way-out is to call halt to Islamophobia.

The zionists, repeatedly getting disappointed with the Western Christian rulers, are naturally furious. This is one of the causes for the economic decline of USA and also UK. And perhaps EU.

Our fear is zionists are determined to take revenge on the whole of West if it does not come out in full support of Israel — which means all-out war on Iran.

But the “Jews of India” are not reading the writings on the wall. It is still holding on to the tail of USA (and Jews) without realising that it is a sinking ship.

China has expanded his influence all over the world. Within an year it is going to be the world’s no.1 economic power.

Anti-zionist front takes shape: China, Iran, Russia together with all the Muslim and African countries — even Latin America — are fast coming together to become the world’s strongest bloc. The Blacks of Africa — the victims of White racism, will never go with the West. Already China has established full influence on all the African countries.

Germany, the worst victim of the zionists, is fast coming up. Already it is the richest in Europe.

What Bahujans can do: The Jews and the “Jews of India” are gradually getting totally isolated.

Bahujan leaders of India belonging to the SC/ST/BCs and Muslims must wake up and prepare themselves to confront the fast-moving global changes.

That is why we have been repeatedly telling that internally we have no hope but the fast-moving international developments are very much in our favour.

[Reply]
omsanthi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:58 pm
..so..china the new saviour of islam..lol…you must be a moron…have a little thought about your brothers,the uighurs..restrictions for them to go to haj…curbs on the observance of the holy fasting period…..cremating the deadbodies of muslims whose relatives can not be traced…it goes on pal…advise your buddy OBL to send one of his jihadi angels to beijing and to explode there..all the jihadi outfits will be obliterated with in seconds!

[Reply]
shan

@Zia, what can i say , another sad day for the millions of downtrodden muslims, who doesn’t need mulahs when there are apologist like you who will never say the light of the day AND WILL FUDGE every rational argument. I dont care what RSS does, they can stuff it , If you had any feeling for your quom you should have said what RSS is or will be doing will besmirch the good name of hindus WE MUSLIMS NEED TO KEEP OUR HOUSE IN ORDER, and take steps (like debates, processions ,social ostracisation ) to show ISLAM IN A GLOWING COLOUR.instead YOU ARE SEEKING EQUIVALENCE , the same mistake , LOOK INTO THE MIRROR, CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME , try to get to grips with your own gharwali, no need to think about other people’s marital problem.
now lets talk about RSS, what it is . It is a SOB organisation led by MARATHI BRAMHINS, has no footprint in my native WEST BENGAL. Just somebody point ONE RSS inspired hindu muslim riot in west bengal. bengalis , nagas, assamese, goans, keralites , manipuris , sikhs do not relate with RSS.
Also after demolition of Babri mosque , all the bjp govt in the states were dismissed , how many hindu objected. Also RSS has probably a masque. the guy with a big moustache who represents RSS in NDTV said hindu and muslim are like two eyes of bharat mata, hardly the kind of talk you will hear from LeT. it is guy like you who has western education but will vehemently protest against abolition of madrasah and its replacement by ENGLISH MEDIUM school.For else how can you lord over the illiterate quom.As for Ravi , that guy is a pakistani agent seconded by isi for internet warfare, lets hope syed ,l mirza will join us the rational humanist in spoiling the party of the CON gress which is TRYING TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM the FETID STENCH OF CORRUPTION ALL AROUND US(well I may not be that affected like ashish)

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 am
SHAN the HINDU FUNDO.

Dream on the irrational semi trained lobotomised butcher from Medway. Dream on.

Once again, you are doing exactly waht you are accusing Zia of doing.

The only difference between LeT and RSS is that LeT is Pakistan Army set-up and funded and needs to be seen in the context of Kashmir issue.

Where as RSS sponsored terrorism needs to be seen as a part of your pet Hindu Fundo home spun philosophy.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
@Ravi,
amazing, isn’t it that Islamic terrorism ALWAYS has a context and Muslims are ALWAYS VICTIMS

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Ashish

All terrorism has context and taking it out of context is REACTIONARY.

Mentioning Al Qaida terrorism and ignoring US foreign policy is reactionary and Islamophobic. Muslims in the middle-east have been victims of US foreign policy for many a year.

Similarly, ignoring Hindu oppression of Dalits and OBC and focusing on Muslim Bomb Visbhots is reactionary.

Just today South Korea has started Military Exercise on an Island near the border of North Korea, if one reviews last month’s North Korean aggression in this context then it makes some sort of sense, where as looking at North Korean aggression out of this context does not make any sense at all.

So Context is important.

Widen your lens and you may view and entirely different India.

You may lampoon my views all you like, dont forget it illuminates the readers more about you than it does about me.

shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
@Ashish, you cannot wake a person who has a bilateral fixed dilated pupil , with no light reflex. This **** called Ravi is plain ignorant. perhaps he needs to reminded that the SUEZ CRISIS , where by france and UK colluded and invaded Egypt , were stopped by the great satan AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA. Similarly when they speak about middle east policy , they do not know what s h i t THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Perhaps that internet jihadi needs to be reminded again that FIRST GULF WAR , there was a rush amongst arab nations to be PAL WITH AMERICA. That america supports Israel militarily , so does china in case of pakistan. BUT ISRAEL’S NUCLEAR BOMB TECHNOLOGY WAS SUPPLIED BY THE FRENCH , more later work to do

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
S H A N the C U N T S P E A K S through his arse agai.

No foreign policy is either consistent or fully rational.

There is nothing wrong with America taking one view in Suez and entirely different one in Saudi Arabia or the rest of Europe. By expecting consistency in Foreign Policy, you expose your naivety.

Nothing new there then.

So coming out of your fully dilated ****** is verbal diarrhoea, almost always point-less.

US Foreign policy in Middle East has FOUR central planks.

1. To keep territorial integrity of Israel at all cost. A lot of anti US feelings among the Muslim is due to this.

2. To keep the House of Saud in Power, who in turn oppresses its own people, and cheaply sells its OIL resources to US, so that US can save its own OIL for the future. Energy Security my semi skilled butcher.

3. Mindless invasion of Iraq, on trumped up weapons of mass destruction, despite the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds.

4. Trying to stop Iran developing Nuclear Weapons, whilst encouraging Israel to do so.

You are a right wing reactionary, a HINDU FUNDO

shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
@wife beater jihad friendly ISI seconded internet terrorist, RAVI , if UNCLE SAM was that powerful how come it could not keep arya mihirreza pahlavi in power, to be replaced by MAD DOGS, which sits on THIRD LARGEST RESERVES OF OIL , yet IMPORTED(yes you have read it correct) 180000barrels of oil.Thwe same would happen if uncle sam didn’t keep straits of hormuz open, saudi will be eating KHAJUR.

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
So Mother shagging SHAN

What is your point ?

So US is not all powerful, is that a surprise.

Vietnam, Cuba, Iran and Afghan Taliban have all proven that.

I suggest learn how to make points. Which you persistently fail to do so.

Suez has two way traffic….Khajurs can go both way….I guess you did not know that.

shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Blow j o b receiver RAVI , from his thirteen(jaisa guru waisa chela) year old DAUGHTER, the point is Jihadist are a bunch of ******* e d up *** hole like you who rather than LOOKING INTO THE MIRROR , always trying to find a subterfuge. Cant do without Iphone , Ipad , Mcdonalds, Pepsi, Pizza Hut, Boeing , Dailysis machine, Pacemaker , Anti Cancer drugs , yet lets GO DOWN AND TAKE THE REST OF HUMANITY WITH us.

Ashish Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
@Ravi,
I am not sure I get the connection – even with my “prescription wide lenses”- between Hindu oppression of Dalits and OBC and focusing on Muslim Bomb Visbhots.
Unless you meant that Muslims have taken it upon themselves to correct the historical wrongs of caste Hindus perpetrated against the Dalits. How nice! That explains a lot.

As for the readers being illuminated about me, hey, folks know me here- I have been labeled, many times, as a card carrying right wing reactionary Hindu Fundoo- what more can you tell me?
I shall quit this thread and leave it to you and Shan.

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:56 pm
******** GIVER SHAN

Hindu Fundos are a bunch of Terrorists too.

And India is the largest market for all the brands you name.

However, you have not answered – as you never do – about tyhe linkage between US Foriegn Policy in the Middle East and Al Qaida, Hamas, etc violence.

Here I know you have a copy of Obama’s Wars…this will enlighten your dim witted isalmophobic brain.

_____________

In March 2010, then-CENTCOM chief Gen. David Petraeus set off a storm of protest among neoconservatives when, in his statement to the Senate Armed Services Committee, he named “insufficient progress toward a comprehensive Middle East peace” as an obstacle to U.S. goals in the region.

“The enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the AOR [area of responsibility],” read the statement. “Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world.” At the same time, Petraeus concluded, “Al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizballah and Hamas.”

While this represented only one of a number of “cross cutting challenges to security and stability” detailed in his statement, Petraeus’ analysis was too much for the Anti-Defamation League’s Abe Foxman, who quickly issued a scolding: “Gen. Petraeus has simply erred in linking the challenges faced by the U.S. and coalition forces in the region to a solution of the Israeli-Arab conflict,” said Foxman. “This linkage is dangerous and counterproductive.”

That such a carefully calibrated statement of the obvious should draw condemnation from the ADL — as if the very suggestion that Israel’s conflicts could create difficulties for its American patron were itself a form of defamation — indicates how uncomfortable the notion of “linkage” makes many Israel hawks.

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Ashish

Thank you, enjoy your panaromic view, using your prescription glasses. Should have gone to SpecSavers.

I can handle Shan, don’t you worry about that.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:23 am
as somebody remarked, people like Zia and Ravi are gifts that go on giving!

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Binoy

Let me add to the saying, Shan, Raju, Rajeev and you are a curse that sticks to a show as dog dirt does.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:48 am
The guy with big moustache in NDTV is tarun vijay,and he has this delusion that india and pakistan one day will merge , so much for RSS hating muslims.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 12:59 am
SHAN

For once I would agree with you.

[Reply]
Ravi

RSS and its client BJP are communal political parties who need communal riots in order to shore up its vote bank.

But why is it that they feel communla politics will deliver electoral dividends. Here is an article which explians it better than I ever could.

_____________________________________

Communalism and Politics in India

Prof. Ashis Nandy
Aisha Sultanat, Research Officer, IPCS

Text of the lecture

I would like to put before you some propositions to explain the phenomena called ‘communalism’ and its impact on security. First of all, I would like to state that security is also a ‘state of mind’. As far as the issue of communalism is concerned, it would be surprising to know that the number of people killed in communal violence in the last 50 years is lesser than the people killed in street crimes in the city of Detroit alone. Two million people were killed during the Partition violence, which again is below the five million people involved in separatist movements in various parts of the country. These statistics reveal that communalism is not as grave and hopeless a problem as is made out to be.

I would like to begin my lecture by narrating a small story that typifies communalism in India. During the communal riots that rocked the nation in 1992, following the demolition of the Babri Masjid, a Hindu family gave refuge to an old Muslim man. The man was provided refuge in the room of their young daughter-in-law. When the rioters went scouting door-to-door to kill any Muslims they could get hold of, the host family saved the old man’s life by introducing him as their daughter-in-law’s uncle. While this entire drama was unfolding, the son of the house went missing. Many days later when the riots subsided and the old man rejoined his family, a prayer was held for the safe return of the son. It was only later that they came to know that the son who had gone missing was a part of the mob that destroyed the Babri Masjid. This story reveals two facts: 1) There can be internal contradictions between the members of a single household on communal issues; and 2) Common people of both communities have come to each other’s rescue during riots. All these prove that communalism is a complex phenomenon and has many facets.
Now coming to the propositions

1. Communalism is an urban phenomenon. Though 3/4th of India’s population lives in the villages, only 3.5 percent of that population is affected by riots. Urban India, which earlier consisted of 25 percent of the population and now consists of 30 percent, is where the communal drama unfolds. 98 percent or more of the communal riots originate and take place in cities and villages close to cities. Perhaps city dwellers must learn a thing or two from the rustic, illiterate Indians about co-survival with fellow beings in peace and harmony.

2. Communal violence is triggered more often by secular issues. A little more than half the communal violence is triggered by secular issues like land disputes, eve-teasing, mixed marriages, and professional rivalry. Only later does it acquire a religious tone. Thus, secular events trigger non-secular events.

3. Communal violence is precipitated as part of political strategy. All political parties indulge in this policy. No party is innocent in this game, including the secular ones, who have a communal base within the minority communities. There are numerous instances of minority leaders instigating and even participating in riots to gain political mileage.

4. Communal rioting is one of the most secular spheres in Indian politics. The elite, who are largely responsible for instigating communal violence, are fiercely secular. While they speak the language of hatred for the other community in public, they maintain cordial relations with members of that community at a personal level. It is similar to the manner in which the European royalty behaved. While being at loggerheads at the political level, they promoted familial ties at a personal level. The elites in political parties cannot afford to believe in what they preach. Animosities are for politics. The language/ideology of violence is kept apart from personal preferences. There is a tight compartmentalization of political and personal interactions.

5. Communities need to be mobilized on the basis of primordial group identities like caste and religion. In India, unlike the West, society is organized into communities and not along democratic and individualistic lines. The middle class is the new target for mobilization. The 250 million semi-modernized, semi-westernized middle classes are the ‘new emerging caste’, which forms the key to electoral success. The BJP has successfully tapped this caste.

6. Fear of the ‘other’ prompts communal violence. Hindus see themselves as disorganized, effeminate and cowardly. They believe that the road to salvation lies in emulating the Muslims and Christians, as they know how to run a state system, are organized, courageous, scientific, and rational. This explains why RSS literature targets Muslims and Christians but reserves the choicest abuse for Hindus. Self hatred among the Hindus gets projected into secret admiration for Islam and Christianity, which is portrayed as the ‘other’. It also leads to a fear of the ‘other’ Ã¢â‚â€œ physical fear and fear of temptations within oneself.

7. Communalism is promoted by the absence of ideology in politics. Only 10 percent of the population votes on ideological grounds. Ideological stridency is no longer a prerequisite for electoral success. Most political parties/leaders have an inelastic support base. Irrespective of their ideological moorings or performance they are voted in for the simple reason that their community wants them in power. This is more so in the case of groups moving from the periphery to the centre like the Dalits or the OBCs like Yadavs, Kurmis, Lodhs etc. Hence, Mayawati or Laloo, despite their grand failures, still manage to stay in power. This trend is resulting in the absence of any depth in ideology.

8. NRIs fuel communalism by providing moral and material support from abroad. Unlike the masses in India, the NRIs have a strong ideological proclivity. For these uprooted persons, who fear a loss of identity in an alien land, ideology is all they have to fall back upon. It is a marker of their roots. Hence they fiercely hold on to it. This sentiment is exploited by Hindu nationalists to further their own agenda of establishing a Hindu rashtra. Inspired by nationalistic sentiments, NRIs provide financial support to right wing organizations that promote communal polarization in the name of nationalism. NRIs despatch large sums of money in the form of donations to temples and parivar organizations which resembles the support that LTTE gets from Tamilians settled around the world or Israel gets from American Jews or the Irish movement obtains from Irish Americans.

9. Communal politics remains a way of secularizing politics. Even a party like the BJP has to take every shade of opinion into consideration, if it wants to stay in power. With 28 percent of its support coming from the backward classes, the BJP is in search of generic Hinduism to hold on to its support base. This is leading to the emergence of a de-ideologised secular politics.

10. Communal politics is leading to the emergence of a new kind of a political culture. We are witnessing the last hiccups of the political culture set in place by Jawaharlal Nehru. The new atmosphere is a free for all. There is minimum conformity also with the laws.

The issues touched upon in the ensuing discussion are as follows:

Dalits and Backward Cates aspire to rise within the Hindu fold. Riots provide that opportunity and generate a new set of heroes. One’s Hinduness is established in riots. The lower castes, seeking upward mobility, have a vested interest on this and hence participate in riots. Consecutive riots have changed the dominant caste complexion by providing a superior status to castes like Kurmis, Jats, and Reddys.

External compulsions are the only limitation that can avert communal conflicts.
Westernisation is a part of ‘Sanskritisation’.

Many countries, including France, became secular after driving out their minorities. Secularisation creates its own insecurities.

Fortunately, the legitimacy of democracy is not in question. Commitment and a sense of civic responsibility is very high among the least empowered communities. The rural masses at the grass roots level compensate for the urban indifference towards the democratic process. Lower voter turnout among the middle classes is a global trend.

Coalition politics will have a softening effect on communal politics. For instance, the BJP has many coalitional partners, which have a large Muslim base like the TDP, and the Trinamool Congress. The BJP will have to tone down its communal rhetoric to accommodate them.

[Reply]
Ravi

Hindu Right, its strategy and other issues related to it are discussed here:

Well worth the read.

http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/resources/transcripts/5433.html

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 1:31 am
COWBELT UNDER CANCER(6 states Bihar, MP, Rajasthan and UP. Some more states are since carved out of these four.)
The “Hindu heartland” also called the cowbelt is the fertile Gangetic plain where the invading Aryans came first and settled down. And launched their looting spree and the drive to devastate the innocent but hard-working natives.

This area, called North India, houses the capital of the country, Delhi, and comprises the most stinking part of the country — despite housing the “holiest” centres for the Hindus

These are the states where Brahminism, the reigning religion of the rulers, is having its dance of death. That is how the Brahmana Jati Party is controlling this area. Brahminism is a deadly disease, both mental and physical, which will not allow a person to think. That is how the cowbelt is the country’s cancer.

Here lies the country’s “holiest” river Ganga, flowing with stinking gutter water, on the banks of which is located the Hindu’s “holiest temple”, Kashi, a veritable hell on earth.

The BIMARU states are a liability for India. The Southern States which include Maharashtra, have escaped this BIMARU because, they are outside the cowbelt. That is how these five states have become the country’s most advanced states. Out of the country’s six metropolitan cities (Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta, Bangalore, Madras, Hyderabad) four are situated outside the cowbelt. Only Delhi, also the capital of India, is in the cowbelt. Even Calcutta is outside — though it is a dead city.

Specialists on the BIMARU disease killing the cowbelt states, like Ashish Bose say they are incurable. Already the whole area is in ICU.

This BIMARU is also contagious. Even the cities outside the BIMARU have started dying. That means the Brahminical BIMARU is spreading fast. Will the whole of Hindu India go BIMARU ?

——————————————————————————–

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 am
Ashish Bose, a professor of Delhi University, now 80, has written a book, Head Count (Memoirs of a Demographer),

Ashish Bose, a professor of Delhi University, now 80, has written a book, Head Count (Memoirs of a Demographer),

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 1:37 am
Ashish Bose, a Bengali upper caste Kayasth (Hindu), rightly coined a word to describe the different areas comprising this cowbelt: BIMARU states

Ankit Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:27 am
Dude once again…India is not ruled by Brahmins. Even UP has a government which is headed by a Dalit.

BIMARU is a 80s and 90s concept, take a look at the growth rates of Bihar and Rajasthan in the last 5 years.

Trust me, if you have to do a headcount, you will find more ‘brahmins’ in Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu than UP. So cowbelt does not mean ‘brahmin belt’. (seriously!!!)

You make a lot of pretentious noise based on half knowledge and driven by a prejudiced mind. India has its own share of problems, I’m sure your country has them too. So instead of baking half truths, go and do something about your country.

And let me tell enlighten you on the difference: One of India’s largest IT company was the sponsor and the technical partner of the Football WC, on the other hand, your country provided second hand footballs that used to sell outside the stadium, and even there Chinese were better than you guys. Instead of wasting your time here, why don’t you do something that will make your country a little better.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
@Ravi

“Well, for a start, the people who spoke Sanskrit almost certainly migrated into the subcontinent from outside, finding indigenous people there, and maybe these were the ancestors of the Dravidian peoples of southern India. Hindus are no more indigenous than Muslims.”
- Martha Nussbaum.

Well, we should believe Hinduism was “imported” to this land, because “widely acclaimed and highly accomplished academic” Martha Nussbaum thinks so.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:02 am
Vinay

I get your sarcasm.

Honestly tell me, is she alone in this regard.

Would you like me to research Historians of Indian Origin, who also subscribe to this theory, or will I be wasting my time

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 6:01 am
@Ravi,

I agree. She is not alone in this regard. There is a list of Indian/foreign authors to substantiate your belief. My question is; if a statement is repeated by many people, should it become a fact?

Shiva(/Pashupati), an Indus Valley God is probably the oldest God imagined by human civilization, who is still been worshiped. Why people who spoke Sanskrit, who migrated(!?) into the subcontinent from outside, worshiped him over their gods (Indra, Varuna etc)? If they “imposed” Hinduism on indigenous people, then Why they did not “impose” their Gods on the people?

Today in India, nobody worships Indra or Varun who are supposed to be Brahmin’s Gods. Jain temples are hardly existent. Indus people are not a suppressed civilization as they are made out to be. They may have been tolerant towards outsiders, but they have never let any outsider faith to boss over the indigenous believes. Be it Brahminical or Jain or … whatever.

Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:24 am
Vinay

I would grant you that just because many people say some thing then it does not automatically become the truth.

However, if many LEARNED people present a plausible explanation – given the avialbale light – then I hope you do not blame me for accepting their opinion as a form of truth.

The fact that you similarly choose to believe a different form of truth then that is your choice.

The rest of your point, I accept.

shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:02 pm
@Vinay, sanskrit speaking people were outsiders, SO WHAT, there is NO PURE ENGLISH RACE, it is khichdi like hell. The language is khichdi as well , WE ALL KNOW THE CONTRIBUTION OF ENGLISH TO THE WORLD CIVILIZATION , but that that does not prevent english to hoist their identity , based on history , culture etc.

[Reply]
ram autar

shan indian constitution is based on manu laws some example,

THUS SPAKE PERIYAR

Constitution based on Manu’s law

Rishis – Born to

8. Vashistar – Urvasi

9. Naradar – Washer woman

10. Kadanasalliyar – Widow

11. Madankar – Cobbler woman

12. Mandaviyar – Frog

13. Kangaeyar – ***

15. Sounagar – Dog

16. Ganathar – Owl

17. Sugar – Paroot

18. Jambuvantar – Bear

19. Aswathaman – Horse

This is the greatness of the Hindu rishis and their births. I think the people of the Barbarian era would at least be more intelligent than our Dravidian people. The history of our forefathers and rishis is disgusting and demeaning. They are responsible for our Dravidian degradation and disgrace. Now let us pass on to other gods.

As per one Hindu mythology Mahavishnu and Parameswaran both males, fall in love with each other, cohabit and produce a male child which is being worshipped by the Hindu orthodox people even now, as Sastha or Iyappan, or Harihara Puthran.

Iyappa: Again it is stated clearly that Mahavishnu fell in love with another Brahma rishi called Naradar and produced not one child but 60 babies. 60 years of the Hindus from Prabava are named after the 60 children of Brahma.

These episodes do not stop with Mahavishnu. We are told of interesting vulgarities about Mahavishnu’s wife called Mahalakshmi. It seems Lakshmi saw a beautiful horse and instantly fell in love with the horse. Vishnu, the knower of all things, came to know about this matter. He immediately changed his wife Lakshmi, into a mare and he himself became a horse. The Vishnu and Lakshmi enjoyed. They did not give birth to a foal, but a human being was born to them. He was named Eka Veeran.

Now let us take into consideration the truths said about the greatness of Devendiran, the king of the devas. Once the king Devendiran happened to see a lady named Parisadam, she was the dutiful wife of a rishi. He wanted to have intercourse with her. He said that he had a great love for her. She replied that she has neither love for Indiran nor could she betray her husband. Indiran was frustrated. He was determined to achieve his object. Some time later the rishi performed Aswamedha yaga wherein his wife Parisadam had to insert the penis of the horse into her womb, as a ritual. Indiran seized this as the best opportunity. He somehow entered inside the male organ of the horse and accomplished his long felt desire. Indiran spoilt Parisadam forcibly against her wishes.

I have enlightened you with great restraint, the details regarding Brahma, Rishis, Devas and their king to enable you to learn something about them as is authoritatively stated in the Manu’s code.

Courts warned: Today our high courts are giving judgments based on the Hindu law. As the justice is given to all taking into consideration mainly what the Manu law, rishis and devas have said sometime long ago, I am telling you all these things for deep consideration.

So far as the Hindus are concerned, where there is a problem to be decided, the dharma sastras are seemed to be the main basic rock of determination. Of all, the Manu code is the most important one.

The Privy Council has categorically stated about the Manu code thus: “However obsolete and out of date it might be judgment based on it are final”. Not only this, the Constitution of India is also laid down according to the Manu law.

The very fact that the measures taken by the government of Tamil Nadu to enable all communities to do the job as priests in temples were nullified by the Supreme Court of India clearly demonstrated that the Manu’s law is still under the full sway. The Act passed by the elected representatives of the people in Tamil Nadu assembly has been set aside as derogatory and against Manu law.

[Reply]
Ankit Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Dude…once again….can you go and read a bit of greek and norse mythology please. May be then you would understand that such carnal details were common in ancient literature.

And its only your inability to understand and look beyond the three letter word to actually appreciate what the authors were trying to say.

And FYI, the Indian constitution was drafted by B.R.Ambedkar, who again FYI was a DALIT!!! Geddittt!!!!

Is the sole purpose of your life is to comment on this blog, and cook up points to score?

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
@Ram Autar

“The history of our forefathers and rishis is disgusting and demeaning.”

Let me add one more rishi to your list. It is Satyakama, son of a prostitute called Jabala who became a rishi. I feel these stories are inspiring, not at all disgusting. Even a son of washer woman, cobbler woman and a prostitute went on to become rishis (scholars) because of their virtue and hard work is not a fact to be ashamed of. It is something to be proud of.

“As per one Hindu mythology Mahavishnu and Parameswaran both males, fall in love with each other”

Oh! This implies Gays marriage are permitted in Hinduism! I never knew, this oldest religion is so contemporary

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:00 am
Vinay, Otter:

Valmiki was a hunter and evolved into a learned person and became the first poet and a Maharishi through education and learning. Nobody said he is a hunter and he cannot become a rishi.

Vyasa’s mother is a fisherwoman. He became the father of Vedas.

Even in today’s world, Mata Amrithananda Mayi, was born as a fisherwoman. Her folowers respect her for her knowledge. She has millions of followers all over the globe, including Muslim followers.

Yes, the diety of Sabari Mala in Kerala is Lord Ayyappa – the legend is that he is the son of Vishnu and Shiva –that Shiva was doing a major “thapas” (when his wife Sathi was insulted by her parents and she decided to kill herself), the consequences of it would have been bad for the universe . So the council of devas and rishis wanted Vishnu to go and get Shiva out of the “thapas”. Vishnu goes as “Mohini”, dances and sings, and seduces Shiva.. Ayyappa was born out of Mohini’s thighs..so the story goes..

As a christian, I felt it was quite cute!

The famous Kerala dance form, “Mohini Aattam” came out of this story/belief.

So, what is Ram the Muslim’s beef? Is he saying people should not worship these types of Gods, or the people who worship these Gods or rishis are less than human or less than muslims or what.. Does he get it??

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

Ramautar and Ravi, such mindless hatred and spewing of venom, why? Is is constructive? Debate politely, imagine you are sitting in a pub with Jews, Hindus Christian and Muslim friends around you- the way you would talk to them TO THEIR FACE, is the way you should write here.

It must be exquisitely painful for Pakistanis and Muslims to come to grips with the phenomenon of vile, international Islamic terrorism. It must be equally difficult for Hindus to realise that there is a growing terror element in their own community.

However, one of these two phenomenon is minor in comparison, and is in fact reactionary to the other. Only a cretin would equate the two. Everyone knows which is which.

However, all terrorists and other criminals need to be dealt with severely in India, that is the need of the hour.

Peace. Dr Dev Mishra, India and UK

[Reply]
madhukar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:54 am
DMishra, try to find the reality, both these guys are Pakis adopting fake Indian names. That is common practice among these pigs to enter into discussions and create disturbance among Indians. Their writings show that are shrewed pigs for some Karachi cyber cafe’

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Madhukar, you are a baboon adopting a human name.

[Reply]
Kunal Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:57 am
Ram Autar and Ravi are probably the same person. Just have to post with two handles as nobody buys their reta**arded agenda of anti brahminism, anti hinduism…and their screwed up facts that they present. Most of the facts are from their own dreams and out of thin air…

Nobody has time to reply to them….they are most probably losers from Pakistan..frustrated with their country going down the hell hole

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Mr Mishra

May I request, if you could quote any of what I have said, that could even vaguely be described as VENOM.

Or to you any views which oppose HINDU RIGHT is by its nature VENOM.

Then let me put you straight, I am a Liberal and to me any views which mindlesly stigmatise Islam are VENOM of the worst kind.

So Mr Mishra, stand up to the challenge and point out where I am venomus towards Hinduism.

[Reply]
Ankit

The kind of anti Hindu hatred seen in the comments section is quite appropriate for this blog. Crazies attract crazies

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Ankit

I am not sure if your “fair enough” comment included me into it.

I am not anti Hindu. That would be plain stupid.

I am anti people who have only a romantic view of Hinduism and who support the Hindu Right’s attempt to homogenise Hinduism into a mouthiestic type religion.

[Reply]
madhukar

Mr Singh, you need not to discuss with such **** imposters as their brains are filled with shit.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Madukar, your brain is full of straw, beacuse you are a convert

[Reply]
http://techcentral.in Kunal

Didn’t expect anything better from Zia Ul Haq when I started reading this article. Another biased rant. As for Hindu radicalism, it’s very different than Muslim terrorism. Hindus have taken to rioting only because the Congress supresses their rights by playing minority politics. The Hindu riots are almost always in retaliation, which is not so for the Muslim terrorism which is either from across the border Pakistan or because their Indian leaders play to their strength because they know the Congress licks their feets for votes.

Congress keeps bashing the BJP for gaining Muslim sympathy, but honestly India will be much more secular under BJP at the helm. Congress’s minority agenda and being unfair to gain votes is what causes the most damage and divide between the Hindus and the Muslims.

The Congress deliberately goes all out to please the Muslims and tries to rake up topics which they know would incense the Hindus and hence the BJP.

If the government plays Muslim-vote-bank-politics, the Hindus are going to retaliate..fullstop.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 10:46 am
KUNAL things are other way around.hindu terrorists are doing the politics of high caste vote bank by abusing and attacking muslims.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Kunal

You are plain stupid.

Congress has ruled India for best part of six decades. You think it supresses Hindu’s

You obviously dont understand that Hindus have supressed, – using Caste System – for centuries various sections of the Indian society.

My guess is that your are a RSS man, who plays HINDU POLITICS

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Kunal

In case you were living in a cloud cuckoo land. Here is some unsavoury reading for you.

Such incidents of Hindu Terrorism are so common place in India, that most people do not even realise that this is a Form of Terrorism.

So may I suggest that Hindu Terrorism existed before Islam was even born.

____________________________________________

Violence against Untouchables

Violence against Dalits is commonplace. Hillary Mayell, (2003) sampled some mainstream Indian newspapers and found headlines such as: “Dalit boy beaten to death for plucking flowers”; “Dalit tortured by cops for three days”; “Dalit ‘witch’ paraded naked in Bihar”; “Dalit killed in lock-up at Kurnool”; “7 Dalits burnt alive in caste clash”; “5 Dalits lynched in Haryana”; “Dalit woman gang-raped, paraded naked”; “Police egged on mob to lynch Dalits” (as cited in Hillary Mayen, 2003).

Fear of public humiliation, beatings, and rape keep India’s Untouchables in their place. For Dalits, simple acts like drinking from a public well or walking through an upper-caste neighborhood can evoke such violent reactions that these simple acts can in fact be a life-threatening offenses (Amnesty International, 2001, 2005, Hillary Mayell, 2003).

Statistics from India’s National Crime Records Bureau indicate that in 2000 25,455 crimes were committed against Dalits (Hillary Mayell, 2003). Every hour two Dalits were assaulted; every day three Dalit women raped, two Dalits murdered, and two Dalit homes torched. Yet the actual reality of crimes against Dalits is much worse than these numbers suggest. Amnesty estimated that only about 5 percent of attacks are registered (Hillary Mayel, 2003, Amnesty International, 2005). Dalits are afraid of retaliation and intimidation. They are also often discouraged by the bribes demanded by police, who more often than not, do nothing about it (Hillary Mayell, 2003, Amnesty International, 2005).

Violence against Untouchable Women

The plight of Dalit women is especially depressing. They suffer double discrimination, one based on caste, the other on gender. Many young Dalit girls for example, end up as prostitutes under the guise of the religious practice devadasis, meaning “female servant of god.” They end up serving upper-caste members sexually. Many of them are eventually sold to an urban brothel. Other Dalit women are frequently raped, gang-raped, beaten, tortured or forced to walk through the streets naked as punishment for something she or her family has done (Amnesty International 2005).

Hillary Mayell (2003) mentions a 1999 case that illustrates the implacable mix of gender and caste.

To punish her for the fact that one of her sons had run off with the daughter of a higher-caste family, a 42-year-old Dalit woman was gang-raped and then burnt alive after she, her husband, and two of her sons had been confined and tortured for eight days by upper-caste relatives of the girl. While the local police knew that this was going on, they did not intervene because of the influence and status of the upper-caste family (Hillary Mayen, 2003).
Amnesty International (2005) reported on the following case.

Ram Chandra, a Dalit living in Munni Khera was married to Ramvathi. They owned a piece of land on which they had a house. Dalits are generally not allowed to own land, and upper caste villagers were trying to take the land from them. In September 1998, Ramvathi was gang-raped by five men. These men are believed to be higher caste villagers who raped her as a punishment for the couple’s refusal to give up their land. For a while, the couple moved to Ramvathi’s parent’s village some distance away. They returned to the village on January 30, 1999 to repossess their property. They were met with violence. First Ram Chandra was severely beaten. He described what happened next as follows:

“They attacked my wife with stick, she fell down then and there. After that my wife came to me and laid over my body to save me, then they had beaten my wife with sticks and axes. She got deep injuries on the head and shoulder and her right hand and leg broken. [one of the attackers] put off all the clothes of my wife, raped her and inserted and pushed the stick in her private part”.

Ramvathi died the next morning (taken from Amnesty International, 2005)
Amnesty International reported in 2001 on an “extremely high” number of sexual assaults on Dalit women. Landlords, upper-caste villagers, and police officers are primarily responsible for the assaults.

In Closing

There are laws and regulations against caste-based discrimination, but they are not enforced or enacted. Many groups, including the police, continue to discriminate against Dalits. There is a culture of impunity when it comes to violating Dalits, and perpetrators are rarely brought to justice. Until India’s “hidden apartheid” is abolished, as A K. R. Narayana said it so well in quoting Ambedkar, India’s true Untouchable hero, the world’s largest democracy is nothing but a palace built on a dung heap (as cited by Tom O’Neil, 2003, p. 30.).

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Well, Bihar has shown that the ususal “vote bank” politics of Lalu and Congress just do not work any more. Rahul Gandhi, after all his “energetic” campaigning got only four seats. It looks like Muslims are finally seeing things right. Lets hope.

There is a great opportunity for BJP/Nitish type alliance to sweep the country, now that Congress is in deep trouble with four-five major corruption scandals. Their outburst at “RSS” in their party congress came across as the last straw for a dying man. It simply was pathetic to see Pranab blaming the country’s problems on the feet of RSS! No mention about G2, Adarsh…. What a party!

However, BJP has to present a clear alternative of inclusive growth; position as a center-right party, rcruit solid young leaders committed to India

[Reply]
http://techcentral.in Kunal

If there would have been radicalism within the Hindu society, the Muslims would have already been wiped out just like the Hindus have been wiped out in Pakistan.

Retaliation is different than pure radicalism…Muslims (not all) but some are radicals and terrorists. Hindus on the other hand retaliate coz they think the government is unfair towards them.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 9:10 am
kunal– absolutely right and to the point!

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Kunal

Yes you are absolutely right and to the point.

That is the Agenda of the Hindu Right in general and RSS in particular.

They are OTHERING Muslims and have run many Pogroms against them.

The idea is to scare them to leave India or to accept a fully subjugated status.

That is plainly wrong, and will never happen. Hindu Right has been rumbled by the public and that is why BJP wants to moderate its agenda and once again become elect able.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
KUNAL HINDUS ARE NOT WIPED OUT IN PAKISTAN.THEY CURSE HINDU RASCIST AND TERRORISTtheir muderous acts iagainst muslims in india. MILLIONS ARE STILL THERE .FULLY PROTECTED .NO RIOT
NO HARASSMENT.BUT THEY FEEL INSECURED WHEN UGLY INCIDENCES LIKE BABRI DEMOLITION HAPPENS.MANY OF THEM ARE VERY RICH.RSS AND HIDUTVA SPREAD THESE LIES ,ONLY TO JUSTIFY THEIR EVIL CRIMINAL ACTS.during 1000 yrs of their rule muslims fought with rulers not with people.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
KUNAL WHAT RETALIATION THE SAME BRHMN JEWS WERE MAIN ALLY OF ONE THOUSAND YEARS OF MUSLIM R.THER WAS NOT EVEN ANY UNDER GROUND MOVEMENT AGAINST THEM.
WHICH ATROCITIES THEY TALK.history is manufactured to destroy india and kill indians.it is their forefathers who brought invaders including ghazni and ghouri.to rob india against heft commission.same like india is being by multinationals.who brought them.same brhmncl jews.

[Reply]
wellwisher

This is one of the best articles I have read on the subject.You have balanced and brought out the real issue very well.I think Muslims in this country need to create examples by not only discouraging other Muslims terrorists but by very strongly condemning incidences of terror.They also need to support genuine Govt. effort to fight this menace just as Hindu’s should actively condemn any incidence where Hindu groups are involved.”Indianess” is bigger than any religion.We need to protect it at all costs and “we will”!

[Reply]
http://www.faithfreedom.com RealRahul

This artical is lot of bullsht, Zia Haq is one more Islamic radical (Remember Muslim radicals always call Islam a peaceful religion and they seek peace) but in truth are here to force there sick religion on others so they can get more power.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Real Rahul.

If what you say is true then by the same token you are a HINDU RADICAL.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
REAL RAHUL

Hindu’s too project their religion as a peaceful religion, what you do not take into account is the Hindu Terrorism against Dalits and OBCs which takes place in Indian Villages on a daily if not hourly basis.

[Reply]
omsanthi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
ravi..i wanted to be with you…but your repeated utterence about the hindu terrorism against dalits and obcs…do you mean the brahmanical terror…i am neither a brahmin nor obc/dalit…there are millions of hindus like me who are liberal, secular…and opposed to both the forms of terror..
and one more thing..you are articulate in your arguements…then why you use the filthy prose?

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:34 am
Omsanthi

I only use filthy language in retaliation to abuse being thrown at me. This in the main comes from SHAN. Elsewhere I have covered this aspect of my behaviour, I would urge you to read it.

Coming to the point you make, about Dalits and OBCs.

My view is that there are people here who are deliberately trying the OTHER the Indian Muslim Community. This they are doing this by creating – un-sustainable – connections between general terrorism perpetrated by certain groups of Muslims and the Indian Muslim community.

I am of the belief that the Indian Muslim community is different and is no less patriotic than you and I.

To counter this, I take the view that our own religion and or culture is not averse to using violence, oppression (which is a form of terrorism) against large sections of our own citizenry. In fact this is so ingrained in our religion, that I call such violence as SANCTIFIED.

If you dis-agree with my view then that is your right.
vinod

RSS people are not fool to support this ideology of terrorism as they already have wide psread present in India through their good work.Had it been their ideology they could have done it at mass scale long time ago.
Muslims become terrorists by default as the Quran clearly supports the violence against non-muslims in whichever way you interpret the Quaran.
Whatever minor incidents of terrorists have been reported ,have been done by few individuals who were quite enraged by government’s inability to control Islamists when series of bomb blasts was taking place few years backs.Inspite of that acts of those individuals need to be condemned.But an organisation like RSS can’t be blamed for that.The bigger ‘Root’ problem lies somewhere else and muslims themselves should correct that problem.

[Reply]
Anil Bonde

In every discussion of such type all secularists (so-called) says that terrorism doesn’t have any religion but now they says that there is Hindu (saffron) terror existing. These sentences contradicts each others. So they must explain it in first.
Whatever theses secularist says that all muslims are not terrorist or dont have that type of thinking they approve that some of them are of that type.
And if current govt or so called secularists dont check the muslim terror (what is happening right now), I am 1000% trust that there will be Hindu terror or Saffron terror going to take place. And only theses pseudo-secularists are/will be responsible for this. If this 9saffron terror) doesn’t happen, Hindu religion will ne wiped out from earth as it has sinked to present Indian territory from old age spread over Afganistan to Indonesia. the reason is Hindu religio doesn’t belive and does anything to spread it forcibly (Sahinshnuta) wheres as all other religions other than Buddhists like Muslim and Christians do it that way.
So pseudo-secularists (from Hindu religion) should study the history in that angle and if they dont check the current muslim terrorism in India definitly more strong Hindu terrorism will rise and the blame is on these pseudo-secularists.

Anil Bonde

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Anil Bhondho

In all such discussion the HINDU FUNDOS, always point to Muslim Terrorism and totally igonore the HINDU Sanctified terrorism.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Ravi–you seem to have an opinion that other form of terrorism should be discussed whenever Islamic terrorism is mentioned?

People will discuss Hindu terrorism if that is an issue. The present and now danger is Islmic terrorism – not only in India, but all over. You can cry until the “cow comes home” as they say here; nothing is going to cahnge. Peopel will talk about Hindu terror when it takes a central stage like Islamic terror has taken now. And most probably, it will not; because the Hindu terrorists are not going to run around and explode in airports and train stations of London and Paris and New york. That seemed to be only in the genes of Muslims

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Binoy

That is absolutely correct.

The reason is simple. Discussing Islamic Terrorism in isolation becomes a part of the OTHERING process. Drip Drip the intention is to paint ALL muslims either as Jihadist or Jihad sympathisers.

Both these positions, in my view, are unsustainable.

I therefore fell compelled to state that ALL manner of people employ Terrorism as a political weapon. This is completely stated in an article that I cust and pasted above.

Your contention that Islamic terrorism is real and present danger is absolutely correct.

However, what you persistently refuse to accept is the following:

1. The Hindu Right also employs terrorism to further its own political agenda.

2. Oppression and low level daily terrorism against low cast Indians is a daily occurrence in India. This is not even recognised as TERRORISM, which is not only Hindu in its origin but is actually sanctified.

So just in case, there is any doubt. I am dead against Islamic terrorism, but I am not blind to Hindu Right’s use of terrorism as a political weapon.

The Hindu Right in USA have threatened a number of writers who have opposed/exposed Hindu Terrorism.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I do not say there are no terrorist acts committed by Hindus. However, I do not see any need to bring it up when it is not relevant to an issue under discussion. The mortal danger , per me, is the Islamic terrorism , advanvced by certain Muslims motivated by the literal interpretation of the Book, fueled by the desire to go back to medival times, consumed by the hatred towards anything Unislamic, Kauffers. To me that is the gravest danger. Especially coupled iwith the Pakistani instability and the probability that the bombs or bomb making material will be captrured by these jehadists. ..

Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Binoy

What in your opinion is the subject of this blog.

Is it not centered around Rajiv Gandhi saying to a US ambassador that he believes that Hindu Terrorism is more of a danger to India, than Islamic terrorism is.

So in what way am I off subject here.

As far as what you beileve and what I do, did I not suggest that we are at the opposite ends of this arguement.

No point rehearsing it again.

Only three days ago 3 RSS chalaks were presented ina court with regards to a terrorist incident in Ajmer, or have you forgotten that.

vinod Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Ravi,

I don’t know how come u r bringing cast oppression and all in this discussion and if u have a valid reason for that then I can surely guess that you r bringing something which u have been obsessed with due to some form of exposure but don’t find right platform to put ur voice. By the way in Hindu philosophy cast is first decided by karma.If you are here to find fault with the people then find the fault in the philosophy not with the people as nobody can be perfect with his own ideas or actions.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Vinod

I mention Hindu Opression of Dalits, because it is a form of terrorism.
Shoeb K

Statements, logic, selective p[icking etc by Zia are all amiss. As a frequent traveler, I know what has changed, how people are perceiving us (Muslims), and whether Muslims agree or not, what has to be changed if they are to be re-accepted by the world in general.

One could frisk through US and European airports without anybody bothering you, with everybody smiling at you, until 19 Muslims rammed into the world Trade center. US and the world has changed big time since then; affecting and curtailing the free movement, and curtailing “freedoms” once taken for granted .

The atrocities committed by extremist Muslims play on the TV sets of millions of people almost every day. The immigration clerk sees that; he becomes more “tougher” in questioning a Shoeb after each visit – in fact more visits raises an antenna in him.

Obviously Muslims are upset; while only a few are committing the atrocities, all suffer the resulting perceptions. They tend to ask, but what about this? What about that? Unfortunately, countries and people are not in a receptive mood for those comparisons; they want terrorism to stop. And I agree with them.

It is ridiculous to bring the caste argument and suppression that was there eons ago into the context of today’s Islamic terrorism. Arguments like that will only diminish any sympathy some may have. The unfortunate thing is that we Muslims always want an accounting of credits, debits, assets, liabilities. And then haha , “see Muhamed Atta blew up WTC because of this particular foreign policy” .. while the world actions (and reaction) now without any linkage.

The gory scenes of Islamic terrorism and the menacing picture of the “alla hu akbar” screaming Jehadist are solidly etched in the consciousness of the majority of people worldwide. Muslims can prevail only if those images are replaced by something else. Until then any other discussion on cause and efefct, what about the caste system, what about saffron terrorism etc are moot time watsers.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Shoeb Bhai, you are not alone. A 100% GENETICALLY PURE STOCK ANGLO SAXON male nurse , who helps me told me someting I couldn’t beleive at first. He apparently went to US, but his BRITISH passport has VISA stamps from Turkey, Egypt. and Saudi, he was pulled to the side , taken to a room INTERROGATED FOR TWO HOURS. some samples, Why did you go to saudi. My dad works there.
Ok , why did you go to Egypt , is it a nice country to go. Well I went to seee the pyramids and the Red sea resort. It went on and on , eventually released. There is a guy called JEREMY CLARKSON who presents TOP GEAR in BBC. This guy is RIGHT WING NUT. He went to usa for his programme. He underwent what you describe, after that he has become virulently anti american. I have been to USA before 9/11 , NOT PLANNING TO GO ANYTIME SOON.

[Reply]
Shoeb K Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Shan-

The US/UK etc reactions are normal and to be expected. As you know, there is a fear (mostly well-founded) that militant jehadists enter (or are in) the country , use the freedoms to blow up the country.

My advice to my felow Muslims is that the worldwide perception is caused by the jehadists acts. And that perception is not going to change unless jehadism stops. Unfortunately, instead of a mass movement against jehadists to take “religion away from them”, many Muslims are wasting their time on their customary blame game “why jehadists do this, you should understand, it is because of the Ottoman decline…..” you get it.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Soheb K

1. I hope you settle down soon. All this travelling of yours is making me nervous. We don’t want you to get bumped off by the Jihadis.

2. I totally agree that the world-wide image of Islam is being sullied by the Jihadist element.

3. The world is also waking up to the political shenanigans of the Hindu Right and in the US people are getting wiser to this. A long way to go yet but Hindu Fascists are getting rumbled.

Great.

ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:30 am
shoeb jehadi are victim of imperialism.can be counted on fingers.have u seen any in yr life.
i think like hindu gods,jehadis are imaginary.americans are using them as stick to beat and insult others.

ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:25 am
shan at heathrow, immigrant authorities asked and arab why u are going to london.he awnsered
to fk brtsh women.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Soeb K.

Which bits of MODI orchesterated Gujarat Riots did you miss on TV.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:38 am
until 19 Muslims rammed into the world Trade center. US and the world has changed big time since then; affecting and curtailing the free movement, and curtailing “freedoms” once taken

WHERE ARE THE DEAD BODIES OF 19 AND PASSENGERS.

[Reply]
Mohan Ramchandani Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:32 pm
We hear one sane voice of Shoheib bhai but these people like Ram Autar and Ravi
as usual try their best to bring him down. What Shoheib say is 100% correct. Everybody
should introspect, but people lke Autar and Ravi will kepp on balaming others for their
follies. I would say that such people are more dangerous than actual jehadis because
these are the people who create jehadis. I dont know how people like Zakir Naik, Madani,
Ashok Singhal, Babu Bajrani, Muthalik and Ram Autar and Ravi can be stopped.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 4:21 pm
@Brain less Autar, if you want to know what happened to Mohammad Atta , and all the jihadis and the passenger of the plane that crashed into WTC, I suggest you do this following experiment. Buy a ticket to Jamshedpur , make your way to Tata Steel plant, THEN JUMP INTO THE BLAST FURNACE.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 11:04 am
but that was not blast furnace.tharea was full of smoke.not flames.fire fighter reached immediately.
what about pentagon.where are dead bodies.
Binoy Hegde

Shan:

Latest “breaking news” here – 12 Pakistani Muslim men (ages 17-23) were arrested in various parts of UK (mostly Cardiff???) for collaborating and planning a major Christmas attack across the country ….

Enlighten us..

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
@binoy, I am operating so I have access to computer and internet , as i understand it is part of the TWO THOUSAND plots i had mentioned before , that MI5 is following. Apparently many of them are of BANGLADESHI ORIGIN, more when I go home.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Can’t wait for some more reactionary twadle based upon home spun philosophy or what ever passes for it.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:17 am
inoy 99%of arrested men are usually released.moreover why britain is part of nato.what afghans have done to them.u forefathers were as.. licker and *** suckers of british empire ,selling india.
only hindu fundamentalist attack innocents gathering.jehadi attack military targets.like in kashmir or inafghanistan.

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

I think Rahul Gandhi is trying to appease fundamentalists like Zia, Ravi and Bobby. He is correct about majority fundamentalism because if majority get angry, minority will bear the brunt and this is what Rahul wants to happen.
Hindus should understand that common muslims are not our enemy but Mir Jafar and Jaichand like Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singh are the main problem.
It is time hindus take this country back else after a decade muslims and christians will become defacto rulers of India.
Wake up and crush Jiachands of India..i.e. Rahul Gandhi

Lastly I think Rahul and Digvijay have links with Indian Mujahideens and they have done their best to safegaurd Islamic terrorists by talking about saffron terror.

The state govts. ruled by BJP should start investing Rahul’s terror links ASAP.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:06 am
they are speaking truth rss is gang of murderers gangesters homosexuals mentally retarded banias and financial thieves.they r planting bombs to ignite civil war in india.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:13 am
Are you talking about pakistanis or Afghanis?

[Reply]
Kunal Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:53 am
He is talking about fictional characters from his dreams…leave him alone.
Vinay

Rahul Gandhi: Punished for plain speaking.

He has been criticized. Where has he been punished? His father also has spoken some plain words. “When a giant tree falls, the earth below shakes”. Plain speaking is in their family genes. Prince Gandhi may be beyond criticism for some, but not for all. As far as Rahuls opinions; everyone (intelligent or fool) is entitled to have their opinions – be it Rahul or Zia or me. (After all, ours is a free country). It is a different thing, how each sentence weighs or how seriously the person is taken. In Bihar, Rahul described RSS as fanatical group and equated it with SIMI. What happened later?

It is not only Rahul who has an opinion. Public have it as well. But for today’s journalists, formers opinion matters more than the latter. Zia needn’t bother to provide a substantiative evidence for his statements
..”Obviously, LeT supporters in India would be minuscule compared to the expanding support base of radical Hindu outfits”
(ask a Kerala or Mangalorean people, what bothers them most).
..”The RSS and its acolytes seek to eliminate our cultural and religious diversity. They seek to foist a monolithic Hindutva (literally, being Hindu) ..”

No Indian ever imagines any organization (let alone RSS) to eliminate the diversity of India. If the demand for reconstruction of a temple in the holy place for Hindus can be dubbed as “eliminating cultural and religious diversity of India”, so be it.
The “liberal group” can criticize others who are worried about Islamist terror to be “Islomophobic”. But their “Saffronophobia” has to be labeled as “secularism”.

A leader whom we admire most can have faults (original Gandhi). Our worst enemy can still have some positive things. (We borrowed a lot from British laws). If a person we hate the most still succeeds repeatedly, he needs a dispassionate analysis.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/emulate-gujarat%5Cs-agriculture-success-kalam-tells-states/119611/on
But then, everyone can’t be neutral like Kalam.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
@Vinay, excellent.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 1:18 am
rss is thousands time worst than let.let is temporary organization will finish when kashmir problem will finish.rss will finsh india.they are preparing mindset which will divide india for ever and another blood bath.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:52 am
@Vinay, quite a few things in your posting merits serious comment. First lets derobe , somebody who has responded to your posting with a single adjective Excellent. Now if it is just your comments then that’s fine but if it applies also to the comments made by Abdul Kalam , then judge for yourself this doublespeak.
Ashish Reply:
June 25th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

@Gopi,
Kalam did not do a single original piece of work as a scientist or as a manager of other scientists. He is at best a mediocre engineer and a good manager of his bosses.

Now Gujrat and Modi. regarding Modi I dont know much. I have watched him several times on TV. Given the media attention (whichever way you look at it), on him , had it been UK or USA there would have fifteen books on him. The point which CHATTERATI misses is that suppose a GODHRA HAPPENED IN BASTION OF SECULARISM(read hypocrisy) WEST BENGAL , WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED , HINDUS WOULD HAVE GONE MOHALLA TO MOHALLA DISTRIBUTING BIRYANI TO THEIR MUSLIM FELLOW BENGALEES. Just need to keep in mind NOAKHALI and NELLIE MASSACRE in ASSAM. And this in concordance with my beleif that the gujarat riots were not a one man (modi) handiwork. He definitely wanted some muslims slaughtered(His words, Mere Dil me Godhra ki aag jal raha hai) , but he did not realise it will go out of hand.
Modi is a fantastic orator , but is he a good administrator , a great inspiring leader, dont think so. Intellectually he is Lalu of Gujarat.
Regarding Agricultural growth having leapt 9%, the late chiman bhai patel had gone to israel , and had sought israeli help in arid farming. I dont know if you are aware the word Patel simply means Farmer. So farmers are not looked down upon as in west bengal , where a derogatory term is used Chasa. Is it possible the high growth of agriculture is a spurious figure because it started from a low base. THIS NO WAY CAN DETRACT FROM THE FACT THAT MODI &CO have done a brilliant job. This brings me to a book I am reading now, it is the biography of HITLER by Joachim Fest. He says if Hitler got killed in 1939 , then he would have gone down in history as the one of the greatest german who transformed germany from anarchy to byword for discipline.and order.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 10:43 am
GODHRA HAPPENED IN BASTION OF SECULARISM(read hypocrisy) WEST BENGAL , WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED , HINDUS WOULD

shan u are again behaving like story writer.at godhra hindu gundaas (vhp)kidnapped a teen girl of
old tea seller.some ladies of the area protested agian this.then these gundaas ignited the compartment .compartment was resrve.all passengers are alive.
they used this incident to start riot WHICH WAS PREPLANNED.THESE LIES OF DISTRIBUTING SWEETS ETC,is usual brhmncl lie.

modi is ex-teaboy of road side restraunt ,hence know s roadside language.supported by hindu
jewish media.u live in england.anybody doing heineous crime like this would have been hanged by now.

they have not done anything brilliant.gujrat was ahead of other india from mughal timee.who built all their trading cities.
in brhmnsm touching land is sin.u must be knowing story of bhumihars.calcutta is ruled by brhmns

as per recent survey of gujrat ,almost every women of middle class ,get herself prostituted ,to have 2 meals ,with the knowldge of their husbands.

shan u are praising those who are running money extraction mafia with the help of state police

and whose deputy is not allowed to enter gujrat.is good .
this is limit of brhmncal medicracy.
gujrat goverment is gang of thieves and murderers whose strings are in the hands of blood thirsty
brhmns of nagpur.they even murdered HIREN PANDIA.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I stand by my assessment of Kalam as a mediocre scientist (actually mediocre engineer).. but, otherwise a decent human being- no change.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 4:22 am
A clown standing on a prosthetic leg , in the clown’s limited or nil intellect , Kalam becomes a mediocre scientist by his appraisal, here is a cut and paste , the link is http://www.angelfire.com
As Project Director, SLV-3, he was responsible for carrying out design, development, qualification and flight testing of 44 major sub systems. In 1982, as Director, DRDO, was entrusted with the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme. He conceived the programme cnstituting 5 major projects for meeting the requirements of the defence services and for establishing re-entry technology.
This is from Raj Chengappa

It is exhausting to track Kalam’s progress. In the ’60s and ’70s he was a trail blazer in the space department. In the ’80s he transformed the moribund Defence Research and Development Laboratory in Hyderabad into a highly motivated team. By the ’90s Kalam emerged as the czar of Indian science and technology and was awarded the Bharat Ratna

Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@Shan,

Even my opinions towards Modi are mixed. Though Godhra riots happened 8 years ago, it is difficult to erase those shameful memories. Since 2005, corporates have started to line up in front of Gujarat but it was not convincing enough. When BJP government came to Karnataka, they said “We want it to make one more Gujarat”. I felt, “No. Karnataka people are happy to be whatever they are”. (Anyway, BJP did not come to power because of Hindutva. Tamil Nadu and Andhra had their regional parties, whenever they are discontent with Congress. But Karnataka did not have a regional party (except corrupt Deve Gowda’s party) to show their discontentment towards Congress. Today’s BJP government in Karnataka is nothing but a regional party. National BJP has no control over it).

But the large scale corruption coming out since last six months really worries anybody. If ManMohan Singh had come out of the government like VP Singh did after Bofors, one would have got an alternative. But without it, one has to look elsewhere. Gujarat immediately strikes. Modi becomes impressive with no family bindings and no corruption charges. With every passing year, Gujarat adds one more violence free year to its list. Every sinner has a future. I hope Nitish Kumar and Modi to patch up, so that we can look forward for a corruption free India.

[Reply]
Gopi Thomas Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 9:11 am
Vinay

Excellent analysis.

As they say, get out of the kitchen, if you cannot stand the heat of the kitchen. Oh, poor prince Rahul.. opposition is jumping on him..just because he said Hindu terrorism of future will be the worst form of terrorism!..

Congress and Muslims play the Hindwata (whatever it is, can somebody explain that to me) card; eventually both will be marginalized by the forces they unleash. As Kunal mentioned, a breakpoint will be reached beyond which politicians cannot control trhe mass.

As Vinay said, what we see in Kerala and South Canara is the emergence of virulent Muslim extremism. Kids attend LeT training camps, six or seven have died in clashes with the army in Kashmir. Scores have been arrested in connection with Bangalore and Ahmedabad. 15 people including Mrs Madani have just recently been sentenced for Coimbatore case. Madani is under trial for many blasts and for recruiting terrorists. The documents siezed in connection with the chopping of the professor’s hand have revealed Taliban type courts;functioning in kerala (yes, in kerala). It has revealed PFI is obtaining money from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to train jehadists.
Tthere is no RSS or Sangh Parivar of any menaingful presence in any southern state except in Karnataka. BJP does not have a single MLA in Kerala, none in Tamil Nadu. AP may have, a guess based on the fact that the e x-secretary of BJP came from AP.

So, when secularists and Muslims talk about Hindwata terror and RSS taking over etc, I am wondering which country are they talking about. Is it localized to certain areas, or is it all over India? Now, if RSS or BJP gets voted to power, that is how democracy functions. Indian populace will make the decision, not pundits.

Zia and his psuedo secularists try consistently to minimize Islamic terrorism (it is going down, Mulims are pacifists, it is not muslims, Palestine issue is a major wound (?), US attacks Muslim countries etc etc, while “elevating” the Saffron terrorism and equating them both, thus nullifying Islamic terrorism (well, every body commits terrorism, so why single out Islamic terrorism) . Many, including Rahul gandhi and the joker Digvijay singh and the “young Turk” (does any body remember?) Mukherjee, with an eye on the next election, have started blaming India’s problems on a future terrorist BJP administration.. Only in India!

Indian Muslims, in general, have not fallen victim to the self loathing, death loving, murder leashing jehadism. However, the Wahabi/Salafi influence coupled with madrasa education and Mullah push early in life (see Zia’s last blog about when/where to inculcate Muslim education!) have created many muslims who are confused and who are on the fence. They deliberately create a frame of conflict, express almost exclusively in the language of loss, disappointment, anger, antipathy, resentment, and desire for conquest (over kauffers, over democracy, over Hindus, over Americans, over Shias, over ..over…Due to this bunker menatlity, they slowly lose their vitality; and culturally they become weaker – alienating others than seducing (Hinduism through its “charm” now seduces westerners; anything “India” (and in their mind “Hindu”) is now craze in the west), looking backward towards a “lost past” instead of forward to a vibrant future.

Every time when one tries to equivocate Muslim terrorism to Saffron terrorism, or blames Muslim backwardness on anybody else but Muslims, one is making their culture weaker, accelerating the backward fall.

[Reply]
L Mirza Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Vinay/Mr Thomas — Good insights.

Mr Thomas is right about framing, about how these create cultural weakness etc. A recent study on book publishing found out how few books are authored in Arabic,a nd the very low number of authors for sucha large population (of a billion plus Arab speaking people).

The “seduction” instead of “alienation” is an interesting observation. I believe Sufism will be seductive to many in the Western (and eastern) world, whether they become converts or not. But, as you all know, it stands in the way of “purity” of Wahabis/Salafis.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 9:59 pm
@Mirza,

Will agree with seduction of Sufism, be it the Durgas (which Hindus visit in equal numbers)or Sufi music.

I have heard Sufism came to India much before Sunni version of Islam (through invaders)came. Then how come Shias are only something like 20% of Indian Muslim population? Does that mean, Hindus were converted more by invaders than Sufi saints? Or lot of Shias were converted to Sunnis during that period?
Ravi

Vinay

Well said

[Reply]
Ashish

Fabulously written, epic! Must read
India’s languishing Countryside: A village in a million in the Economist http://ow.ly/3rJeb

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:24 am
Ashish

Thanks for drawing my attention to this fabulous article.

Here are two questions to you:

1. What does this article tell you about the Hindu/Mulsim relations in a typical Indian village.

2. What do you think is the emotional health of Dalits who live in this village.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Ravi,
I for one, having spent time in actually traveling through villages in Eastern UP have no substantial disagreement with this article.
I have spent 4 years in Varanasi and I know that even with the frequent communal flare-ups in the city, the hinterlands ar actually very peaceful.
No disputes on the emotional health of the Dalits living in that village- I have never disputed the pernicious hold that the caste system has on our society. But, as even the article points out, and a point I frequently make- rapid urbanization will whittle away at the caste edifice.
It is fascinating to see that the main tormentors of the Dalits are actually Patels- not much higher in the social ladder. It is uncanny; MN Srinivas could have been living here, doing his field study in Shahabpur and postulated his theory of ‘dominant castes’. Time stands still; sadly.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Ashish.

I agree with you

Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:01 pm
@Ashish,
“rapid urbanization will whittle away at the caste edifice.”

I wonder whether urbanization alone can remove caste prejudices. Just like the villages, even towns historically have had communities settled along religious and caste lines. If a villager comes to city for a job without much education, he would settle in one such settlement and the discrimination continues. (Often during communal riots, what we see in towns is Dalits and Muslims who live next door, killing each other). Education and change of profession (which are meant for certain caste, like “cobbler”) can bring out a change.

After independence, Hindu backward classes have made use of the opportunity to a large extent. (Luckily, they did not have any religious “guru” for guidance). They got educated and came out of the area which was “meant” for their community. This has not happened for Muslim backward class (resulting in ghettoizing). Whichever muslim is holding high office today, was well off before independence also. But it is not the case with most of the Dalit officers. They have come from very lower cadre to a high ranking, post independence. This is not Kanshiram-Mayawati effect (they came only in 90s). But Dalits transformation started since early 50s because they had Ambedkar to look up to. Backward Muslims do not have an icon, who rose from utter poverty, but still respected by top class because of his education alone. We still have educated Muslims, who find no harm in Madrassa education by Maulvis. But, can that education produce an Ambedkar?

Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:38 pm
“We still have educated Muslims, who find no harm in Madrassa education by Maulvis”

I wanted to say,
“We still hear educated Muslims (like Zia), finding no harm with Madrassa education by Maulvis”

shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:58 pm
@Vinay, as I understand there are two ways to bury this caste prejudice, the ashish caste gives up prejudice, the chance of that happening is same as Bin laden getting presidential Medal from US congress.The other is dalits becoming MIDDLE CLASS, IN EDUCATION , IN INCOME AND ASPIRATION. just urbanisation will see dalits becoming maids and servants , which would suit one particular caste fine. I will give my first hand experience to back my claim. I know a bengali family , they are SC. The girl was very pretty , and they were middle class. There were scores of UPPER CASTE suitors , but the mother and family were adamant that she would marry only SC , so as not to miss out on positive discrimnation. This may be casteism in reverse , but I welcome it.

Vinay Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@Shan,

I don’t understand the need to bring “ashish caste” or “vinay caste” to your argument. The article speaks, how Dalits are illtreated by a Patels- a peasant caste. Illtreatment comes because of ignorance. Confrontation is needed, but it is only a quick fix. Permanent solution demands educating. That is what Ambedkar did.

Ashish Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 12:04 am
@Vinay,
Oh, of course, you are right; urbanization will need to be accompanied by a lot of other drivers- but, it is still the most important. The locus of economic development is now the cities- desirability of which we can argue, without changing the fact.
The economics in cities is not dependent on traditional occupations- hence, we find a farmer’s son becoming a teacher or a machinist in a city. And, urbanization might lead to ghettos, but they are likelier on economic and in case of Muslims- religious lines.
I would attempt to, albeit crudely, position the roles of Ambedkar and Periyar vis a vis the Dalit Politicians of present. See, Ambedkar is like Brahma, the creator and Periyar is like Shiva, the destroyer. Both roles were relevant for the times they were born in. Periyar’s influence was largely in South India- the North Indian Dalit did not have any equivalent for a long time. Jagjivan Ram was too much of a conformist.
So, I would argue that Kanshi Ram/ Mayawati combine did for the North Indian Dalits some of the same things that Periyar did for the South Indians many years back. The differences are mainly two: Periyar’s political legacy passed on to Annadurai and DMK; his own success as a politician was limited; whereas, Mayawati/ Kanshiram were politicians first and thinkers, much much later.
While it is certainly true that the Dalits have started moving up the ladder much before the times of Kanshiram, the pace has accelerated in the recent past. Now, UP and Bihar are laggards behind the southern states – like I said, they did not have a Periyar equivalent till recently.
Now, as MN Srinivas so presciently predicted, the caste war is now increasingly between adjacent castes- a point so viividly made in the Economist article. But, caste is a rural phenomenon- it will lose its potency the moment it loses its traditional link with occupation.
Now to your last point, the short answer is “of course, the Madrassa education will likely never produce an Ambedkar”. But, the real issue is the fundamentally different strategies adopted by the two communities-Dalits and Muslims- at Independence. Dalits wanted to assimilate in the larger society; wheras the Muslims wanted to maintain their separateness. The result is there for all to see.

ram autar Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 12:04 am
Jews killed Jesus, divided church & now destroying Roman Catholics

Bangalore: Every big city in India has a “den of the Jews” called Freemason lodge. The capital city, Delhi’s most important road, Janpath, where it touches the Connaught Place, has the Delhi branch of the Freemasons located in a sprawling prime locality — so well maintained even to this day. Calcutta, Madras, Bombay, Bangalore and other big cities have also such dens.

What is the Freemason lodge? Nobody knows. It is all secret. It is a conspiratorial centre of the Jews and the “Jews of India”.

The top-most people of a city are members of this lodge without even knowing what it is all about.

Priests holding guns: We are reproducing excerpts from the book of the top-most Roman Catholic Pope who exposed the criminal conspiracies of this secret society.

“Freemasons lodge” is the secret society of the Jews, as narrated by the highest religious authority in the Christian world. It is the Jews who killed Jesus and later divided the church into Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches and brought about so much confusion in the Western world.

Again it is the Jews who gave birth to different Protestant religions to further weaken the Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church which mushroomed in USA was engineered and financed by the Jews who totally control the USA.

President George Bush engaged the Evangelical church leaders to lead the American troops sent to destroy Iraq. These Christian priests were holding guns instead of the Bible

Raju Kurien Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 1:01 am
India cannot be summarized on a “standardized” version of Shmbalpur .
A Kerala village is 160 degree different from a rural UP village. Ditto between a Tamil Nadu vilage and may be a Bengali village.
The backward caste in the South has achieved political, social, educational, finnacial clout through better organization, commitment and not letting othrs decide the agenda. When the general economy rises, and people are uplifted, several barriers go away. There are many many intercaste marriages happening in Kerala, and may inter-religious (mainly Hindu-Christian; it is vstill rare when a Hindu-Musloim or a Muslim-Christian marriage happens). Eventually marriages will be the social binder and caste eradicator. It will be realized when economic and income levels rise for everybody.

Vinay Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:01 pm
@Ashish,

I am afraid whether you are giving too much credit to Periyar for the rise of Dalits in south India. As far as I am aware of, Periyar’s anti-Brahminism did not channelize towards empowerment of Dalits, instead it focused on strengthening of the majority class which were between Brahmins and Dalits. Also Periyar’s strength was limited to Tamilnad, it was not spread all over south India.

I feel, the local rulers of the region (pre Independence) need to be credited for this awareness. Majority of south India was not directly under British rule (except Madras Presidency), it was mainly princely states. These states were progressive and and tried to promote education and industries. Rulers of Mysore brought a democratic Representative Assembly in 1880s. Reservation for backward class started at Kolhapur state in 1900, which spread to Mysore, Madras, Cochin and Trivandrum by 1920. (Women were given free education till high school in Mysore state). It is because of these early corrections, southern states are in little advanced position. Kerala, richer by gulf money has advanced even more.

The article mentions, Dalits complaining to authorities over their illtreatment. This awareness to stand for themselves is because of Kanshiram. Beyond this, has to come from education. Will agree with Shan, urbanization without education will land these people
into maids and servants, which will not serve the purpose.

@Shan

What you call as “reverse casteism”, a middle class SC not willing to miss out the positive discrimination : is what I am against. They cut the possibility of people like Sarju (the one mentioned in the article) taking advantage of these policies. They defeat the very intention of these policies.

shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:03 am
@Bloggers et al, priest class has been bowled over by athe claptrap of a reactionary right wing magazine called Economist , published from the country where I am currently working. Here is a cut and paste from that article, judge for yourself, I would hang my head in shame .

There is an exception to the caste divide in Shahabpur, which many Muslim and Hindu men enjoy. For a few rupees or handfuls of rice, they are said to demand and get sex with dalit women, typically just after sundown, when the villagers troop out to the fields to ablute. At an informal gathering of Muslim men outside the house of Anwar Ali—an upstanding clerk, who also housed your correspondent—it was estimated that perhaps 40% of the village’s non-dalit men upheld this ancient tradition. According to Sarju, until Sushila lost her youthful good looks, he suffered near-nightly terrors from drunken patel youths, who came clamouring for her outside his hut

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

A soft terrorist like Zia who was denied visa by USA is talking against terrorism…This guy surely is shameless like his co-religionists.

Rahul and his terrorist supporters should be replied thru ballot next time..Rahul will have to pay for his anti-india stance just like his father.

[Reply]
Ravi

So now RSS acuses Rahul Gandhi as being an ISI agent, wants CBI to investigate.

Fantastic, this proves SHAN is an RSS Chalak, becuase any one here who opposes the Hindu Right, Shan instantly labels them as an ISI agent, cincumcised, paedophile, etc.

These people want to rule India. What a joke.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

Ravi, you wanted to know- “Mr Mishra, May I request, if you could quote any of what I have said, that could even vaguely be described as VENOM….”

I will repeat what I said before- Debate politely, imagine you are sitting in a pub with Jews, Hindus Christian and Muslim friends around you- the way you would talk to them TO THEIR FACE, is the way you should write here.

When you addressed Anil Bonde- you were sneering in your manner and your deliberate insult of his name- “Anil Bhondho, In all such discussion the HINDU FUNDOS…”
Similarly, you address Dr Shan as – “SHAN the HINDU FUNDO. Dream on the irrational semi trained lobotomised butcher from Medway…”

For someone who has spent thousands of hours here on HT, you should be constructive and polite, not just scoring points. e.g, pl do not bring atrocities on Dalits into EVERY debate. Evil though that is, it is not terrorism and flows from severe economic disparity. You know well enough that worse atrocities occur even in your own country Pakistan. Infant mortality there is worse that Bangladesh now, so economic disparity exists there as well.

We are talking Islamic terrorism here and comparing it with hindu terrorism. The former is now the most feared entity all over the world with bombs/ attacks going off in USA, UK, Spain, Bali, Sharm el Shaikh, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Uganda, Sweden etc etc. RSS inspired terror is not even 0.01% as compared to this, so pl do not lose your sense of perspective- you seem to be a very intelligent man.

If I meet a Pakistani or any muslim, or go on their websites I extend my hand in friendship and try and debate constructively. See my letter published in Pak Tea House, which discusses the evil of Pak terrorism and actually gives an alternative view of Kashmir-
http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2008/12/30/book-review-curfewed-night-by-basharat-peer/

Turning a blind eye to the horrors of international Islamic terrorism emanating from your country Pakistan may be the natural reaction initially. But what do seasoned Pakistani journalists who travel abroad say about Pakistan’s image across the world- pl see-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWL7CV4G_aY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEBJsI_ou4w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgvm64toWI&feature=related

In these videos, the journalist freely acknowledge the image of Pakistan as ‘bhooka-nanga’, Pak ppl pretending to be Indians, the respect of Indians and what they have achieved etc .

So, my friend, I extend a warm welcome to you in our newspapers and hope you will not spend too much time running India and Hindus down in the future. The way I admire Pak squash players, so to must you admire the stupendous educational and financial achievements of your Jewish, American and Hindu bothers across the world. I sincerely hope that in 15-20 years time, you would have been able to contain Islamic terrorism that is stifling the life of your beloved Pakistan, as it affects us majorly as well.

Peace, Shalom, Namaste and Adaab to you, Ravi

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:02 am
Dr Mishra

Thanks for your rsponse.

I will address each of the issues you have raised.

Let me first take the General Point. What I asked you was if you could quote any of what I have said, which is anti Hindu. You have singularly failed to do so.

However, you do make the point that I use un-gentlemenly and intemperate language. I plead guilty and offer the following in mitigation.

SHAN attacks me personally at every opportunity he gets. I will cut and paste here some of what he has said to me and about me from previous posts. In each of the examples I site here, there is a date and time stamp so you can investigate further, should you be so inclined.

________________________________________

1. November 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm ….@ravi circumcised, wife beater,

2. November 8th, 2010 at 8:51 pm…@Ravi, are you sure about your birth certificate , not a forgery which turned Dera adam khan to dehra. and weall know where dera adam khan is.

3. November 8th, 2010 at 8:18 pm…@jindal, I read the posting to you by ravi, I cannot help agreeing with him . A lady came to casualty , apparently beaten and black and blue , because as she was having a headache , she refused sex. but her husband , his name surprise surprise Ravi,

4. November 9th, 2010 at 3:29 am…@Ravi, the NOT is missing because your foreskin is missing

5. November 9, 2010 at 2:28 am…@Ashish and his homoerotic soul mate Ravi….

6. November 9th, 2010 at 10:38 pm…@Binoy,well this ravi and haram autar may be the same person , or perhaps ISI at work .

7. November 11th, 2010 at 12:42 am…like the Ravi pakistani, Ashish kamchor , faltu hindustani.

8. November 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm…Classical response of a ISI man.

9. November 12th, 2010 at 3:27 pm…@…..unless you are also a pakistani like Ravi.

10. November 13th, 2010 at 3:31 pm…@Ravi is it really,

11. November 7th, 2010 at 3:33 pm…@Ravi, the mole of a particular country ,

12. November 5th, 2010 at 5:55 pm…@Ravi , the difference is between you and me , one rationalist , the other a closet jihadi, if not jihadi then definitely beleives islam is the greatest and innutable , or shall we say just THE beleiver.

13. November 5th, 2010 at 6:12 pm…@Ravi (most definitely circumcised for religious reason)

14. December 5th, 2010 at 12:04 am…@Ravi, you ignorant moron you reveal your birth religion that is a congregational religion and that is Islam.

15. December 4th, 2010 at 11:52 pm…@ravi, the dole cheat from the council estates of toxeth

16. December 5th, 2010 at 2:33 am…@ravi, the genital warts,

17. November 29th, 2010 at 8:30 pm…@ravi, the internet ISI..

18. November 30th, 2010 at 12:45 am…@Ravi , the purest beleiver in five pillars

19. November 29th, 2010 at 1:30 am…@Ravi circumcised

20. November 30th, 2010 at 5:38 pm…@Ravithe greatest admirer of hadith.,

21. December 2nd, 2010 at 6:37 pm…@Ravi, the ISI agent

22. December 5th, 2010 at 10:31 pm…@Kunal, it is time beneath the stairs , blindfolded pakistani ravi came out of the closet and declare himself a pakistani.

23. December 6th, 2010 at 9:44 pm…@rajeev, wellcome back, i have been at my wits end to derobe this soft jehadi RAVI, now he has a soul mate in Ashish

24. December 8th, 2010 at 9:12 pm…@Ravi Pakistani, from a rational humanist

25. December 8th, 2010 at 11:18 pm…@Ravi pakistani from shan Hindustani

26. December 8th, 2010 at 9:08 pm…@raju kurien, you didn’t ……….Similarly this circumcised ravi says I hate paedophiles yet his his room is stacked with child porn. He doesn’t like foul language yet describes the expletives with candour, this is taquiya in full swing.
[Reply]

__________________________________________________

So Dr Mishra, now that you have been acquainted with Ali Shan’s modus operandi, I hope you would be gracious enough to afford me the luxury of RETALIATORY aggression.

Further more all of the above is a part of widely used tactic, if you do not like what some says, discredit them.

Now let me address some of the other points you make.

I vehemently disagree with you and I believe that it is the tactic of Hindu Right, to draw attention to Islamic Terrorism and not to the SANCTIFIED oppression of Dalits and OBCs in India. I also disagree with you when you say that such form of oppression is not TERRORISM. IT IS if you view it from the POV of those that are being oppressed.

So Dr Mishra, here in this Forum, each time people say, look how bad Islam is, then I have this uncontrollable urge to pint out that, we are not much better ourselves.

Once again, I will take issue with the fact that Islamic terrorism is most feared all around the world. I do not feel it. During the 70s and 80s there were anti immigrant riots in the UK, Toxteth Liverpool, St Pauls Bristol, Broadwater farm Totenham, London, Southall, where Blair Peach died. During these years, Islam was not even an issue and it peacefully coexisted among other immigrant communities in the UK. So rioting and terrorism as a political weapon is widely used and Hinduism is no exception to this general rule.

I notice that you have joined the ranks of people who think I am a Pakistani, simply because I oppose the Hindu Right. I suggest that in any future posts you desist from such baseless accusations or I will become abusive towards you too. The choice is yours. I am ANTI HINDU RIGHT, not anti Hinduism. I am a Liberal Hindu myself.

I don’t give a tinker’s cuss as to what Pakistan is or what other journalists say about Pakistan. I am not in a race with Pakistan. My entire focus is on my own motherland and I leave Pakistan to the Pakistani’s

Since when has the Hindustan Times become your newspaper. I was reading the Hindustan times when you were nothing more than a twinkle in the eye of a honeymoon couple.

I will pass on your condescending remarks to those who care about Pakistan/Jews/Americans, etc.

So here is an offer, this offer was also made to SHAN on at least three different occasions, stick to making points and you will get a civil response. Resort to conjecture, name-calling or casting aspersions on my nationality, religion etc, you will get a mouthful back and as you know I can be very unpleasant when it suits me.

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

Rahul has given clean chit to LeT on 26/11.

[Reply]
Kunal Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:55 am
For Rahul and Ram Autar..everything bad done by the Muslims is a controversy and everything bad done by the Hindus is exaggerated and claimed as a fact.

They dont believe in news or facts, they dream up facts and changed news stories. You cannot argue with people who tell lies. Don’t waste your time.

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

Is Rahul connected to IM?

[Reply]
shan

@Binoy Hegde, about the arrest in stratford, cardiff , and london. There was nothing in the morning news papers, there is something in the evening newspapers and evening news. apparently this was an ongoing investigation , these boys(one of them is 17) and men were under surveillance. Apparently the GCHQ(a joint venture of uk and us based in gloustershire , for electronic eavesdropping during cold war) was picking up heavy traffic of electronic chatter between PAKISTAN and UK, with grandiose plan of bombing before christmas. They dont think these guys have made great strides towards the jihad , but more of a safety measure. Apparently the description from locals will fit in with jihadi mindset. They used to distribute leaflet (I dont need to tell you that it was certainly not about gandhian ahimsa ) of a particular kind and congregate in RELIGIOUS(only one denomination) BOOKSHOP. These bookshops are the front of jihadi work in uk , and they seem to spring from nowhere mostly in deprived areas.Cardiff is where they must got the bangladeshis, because I have worked in the university hospital there. Only bangladeshi you will see is the curry shop owner and if it is pakistani then hala butchers. In fact restaurants now flaunt certificates showing that it has been inspected by HALAL COMPLIANCE ASSOCIATION.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:44 am
The incoming chairman of the Homeland Security Committee of the US Congress, Peter King, is going to have hearings about the jehadism among second generation Muslims here as a result of the several arrests/incidents involving Americans of Pakistani ancestry in the last two years. Several areas such as whether muslims will ever be integrated into American polity like all the other immigrants from various other countries, whether they will be patriotic (Major Hasan incident) etc…

it will be interesting.. These hearings will be live with video feed on C-Span.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

Dear Ravi

There are numerous Pakistanis masquerading on Indian newspapers with one track venom, so I could have been forgiven for thinking you were one.

You promised to debate politely and yet you write so- alas-

“I suggest that in any future posts you desist from such baseless accusations or I will become abusive towards you too…”
“casting aspersions on my nationality, religion etc, you will get a mouthful back and as you know I can be very unpleasant when it suits me…”

Please do try and remove anger from your contributions.

I will try one last time to put the relative dangers of Islamic vs Hindu terrorism in perspective:

If someone goes to an airport, a railway station or a shopping center with his family in the last 10 years, anywhere in the world- India, USA, UK or Pakistan, who of the following is more likely to rain him with bullets or a suicide bomb-

- a bania loan shark from a village in India who oppresses dalits
- a christian hell bent on conversions
- a jewish settler in Hebron
- a chinese illegal migrant
or a young muslim male of Pakistani origin?

Who do you think, Ravi? If you were in charge of airport security in New York or Mumbai, who are you looking for- Swedish grannies or young muslim men?
Dr Dev Mishra, UK and India

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Dr Dev Mishra

As I once before suggested and I will repeat again.

I do not deny that Islamic Terrorism is a nuisance not just to travellers but generally. I abhor it and I hope that in the end sense would prevail.

However, Hindu Terrorism towards Dalits is universal, persistent, sanctified and what is more it is not even perceived as terrorism. That is tragic.

Dalit/OBC and Muslims in India live under constant fear.

I will give you an Indian is unlikely to shoot you in La Guadia airport, but that is little comfort to the oppressed classes in India.

It is a sad fact that US – having set-up Taliban in Pakistan during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan – has unleashed a genie which refuses to go back in the bottle. Post Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan there were a huge numbers of young radicalised fighter who were looking for a fight. More Fundamental Religious elements such as the Wahabi’s hired these fighter to do their dirty work.

In Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwalle, Indira Gandhi had created a Relgious nut to counter the rising tide of Akali Politics in Punjab. That is there no more and it is my belief that the Islamic Terror phase will also pass.

However, the Hindu Sanctified oppression of large sections of Indian population will remain. After all, it has been here for centuries.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm
America was present during the birth as well as during the conception of Taliban. But that child grew up to be a HAWAS filled monster is due to OVER INDULGENCE , AND ACTIVE SUPPORT OF TERRORISTAN, WHO WANTED TO REPLACE ITS LOST COLONY , BANGLADESH WITH AFGANISTAN.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:19 pm
taliban are respected like netajee bose for resisting occupation.the moment americans leave they will have end of sheikh mujeeb.
Ravi

Gopi

Would you care to name at least FIVE countries whose very existance is threatened by Islamic Terrorism.

[Reply]
Dr Dev Misra

@ Ravi- “Gopi

Would you care to name at least FIVE countries whose very existance is threatened by Islamic Terrorism.”

Please can I answer that, Ravi. The following countries face an existential threat by Islamic terrorism-

India
Pakistan
USA
UK
Afghanistan
Somalia
Iraq
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Indonesia
etc etc

In some countries mentioned here, like Turkey, Saudi, Indonesia etc- the threat appears minor, BUT THAT IS BECAUSE THESE COUNTRIES ARE KILLING THEMSELVES POLICING THESE THREATS and dealing with those trouble makers ruthlessly.

Phew, I am tired, not done so much typing in such a long time.

Dr D Mishra, UK / India

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Dr D Mishra.

You utterly disappoint me.

So you think all the countries mentioned in your list are in – DANGER OF GOING OUT OF EXISTANCE – because of Jihadi Islam !!!

No Comment.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:35 pm
mr ravi ,in hindu dictionary ,spiritual violence means non violence.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:11 pm
it means spiritual fascism is called non violence.

Vinay Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:09 pm
@Ravi,

No terrorism can kill every citizen of any country. Nazism also was not able to wipe out every Jew. The intention of the terrorists is to build scare in public (terrorizing does not imply killing). In that extent, they have quite succeeded.

If a survey is conducted in these countries regarding what is the top 5 concerns of an average citizen, terrorism surely comes in
that list. Is that not enough?

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Vinay

Yes it is?

However the question being posed was if Islamic Terrorism is an EXISTENTIAL THREAT.

I am of the opinion that is is far from it every where except perhaps in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:29 pm
dr mishra,Terrorism” will stop only when Jews stop their war on Muslims .till they will kill innocents in drone attacks they should be ready for reaction.though i dont approve ,but this is natural.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Well,US and its citizens consider this an existential threat. They set up a whole new department Homeland Security to detect and prevent terrorist activities. Zillions of dollars is spent, in spite of a bad economy, to track, capture, kill jehadists and other terrorists.

America is afraid of Muslims in general and Islamic terrorists in particular. Various communities have promulgated various anti-islamic laws. In fact , the State of Oklahoma passed a constitutional amendment to prevent Sharia laws as the legal system for the sytate..So some have gone extreme nuts (this is like the Rajiv GAndhis and Ravis of India talking about how Hindu terrorism will change India!)

But the fear is real; and the probabbility high that all the war planning for Pentagon now is focused against terror groups and less on countries

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Hindu India as world’s most violent state

: “Hindu India” is advertised as a land flowing with milk and honey, wedded to peace and non-violence where Budha, Gandhi reigned and made it a model for the whole world to follow.

This is pure propaganda — bullshit. The facts of history are entirely different.

In this so-called “secular democratic” India, pogroms against all the three significant “minority communities” like the Muslims (15%), Christians and Sikhs (2.5% each) are a daily dose.

Why Muslims opted for partition: The very partition of India (1947) took place because the then dominant Muslim community, which had a sizeable population in the undivided India and ruled this country for 800 to 1,000 years, said it could no longer live with the hate-mongering Brahminical Hindu rulers and opted for Pakistan.

During the partition riots Muslims were recklessly slaughtered. The undivided Punjab, which was a predominantly Muslim-majority state, witnessed the worst violence against Muslims
Gujarat genocide: “Independent” India’s first biggest bout of violence against Muslims occurred in a well-planned attack during the Babri Masjid demolition. Thousands died.

The second biggest was the massacre of 2,500 Muslims in what became famous as the “Gujarat Genocide” (2002).

The massacre of over 12,000 Sikhs (men, women and children) was ordered at the instance of a great Hindu Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, when she sent Army tanks into the Golden Temple, Amritsar in 1982.The killing of Sant Bhindranwale and his band of dedicated Sikh disciples was well-planned by the Brahminic leadership to break the backbone of Sikhs, and dub them as terrorists so that the domination of brave Sikhs in the Indian army is once for all finished.

The Indian army today is an all-Hindu affair fully, mired in corruption.

Christians (2.5%), the most peace-loving among the three minority communities, got a wonderful taste of the Hindu ahimsa in Orissa.

Only the violence against non-Hindu “minorities” are detailed above. The violence of the Hindu rulers against their own “Hindu” SC/ST/BCs (65%) is a daily affair. But the only difference is this violence is inflicted in a most non-violent way.

And yet our Hindu heroes go on boasting of their non-violence. No. Hindu India is the world’s most violent state.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Mr Autar,
I request you, if you have any consideration to fellow bloggers, to stick to the point, specific answers to specific questions, instead of the constant recyclinga nd ranting .

You are not enhancing your argument, or your country (pakistan) position, or advancing the Muslim cause. You are damaging all three…

But whether youi damage those or not, please be considerate to the fellow human beings who blog and who get some point/counterpoint and debate going.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:03 pm
@binoy hegde, more information about the arrests in UK. Apparently because pakistan is under the electron microscope , nowadays , these jihadist had make several trip to bangladesh to train there. It is my premonition that sheikh hasina will be be taken out by a jihadi in the army. Another news , an aspiring actress of bangladeshi parentage brought out a legal case against her father and brother , as she was being threatened with murder FOR SEEING A HINDU BOYFRIEND. But this is UK , the brother will go to the kermit.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:46 pm
muslims are threatening only ,in calcutta one marwai bania killed the husband of her daughter.for the same reason.but grass eating girls cannot stand the the manliness of beef eaters ,and run away with them.

[Reply]
Dr Dev Misra

Dear Mr Ramavtar

Such mindless repetition of lies!

Sir you say- “During the partition riots Muslims were recklessly slaughtered…”

Were any Sikhs and Hindus killed?

Do you realise that your meaningless posts serve no purpose other than to antagonise everyone against pakistanis who come to HT under pseudonyms such as yours.

Best wishes

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:17 pm
misra jee on 6th nov 1947 250000 residents of jammu were slaughterd by rss goons and army of raja.
blood bath of 1947 was orchestrated by brhmnst.yes sikh and hindoos too died but in retaliation.

rss is the oldest terrorist organization of india.misra jee ,u have to accept this fact.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:47 pm
pls be specific i will awnser u.i hate the haters.

[Reply]
omsanthi

@Ravi
my only grouse with you is your understanding of terror . we have seen quite a lot of terrorist organizations..ira,plo,ltte,chechyan,khalistan etc..etc…they all used terror for one solitary goal..to be identified as a nation state..which ,if they had succeded ,would defenetly have brought a democratic,pluralistic and secular governence.but the islamist terror(not muslim) and their goal is far beyond your imagination..i am sure you are well aware of the islamists theory of political islam..they dream of an islamic theocratic world..where no other opinions,forget about other relegions,will be heared.(. the maoists in nepal came back to the domain of democracy.).there is no room for any kind of discourse in an islamist polity which the terrorits espouse. i agree with your observation about the sanctified status of caste oppression..but honestly dont you think that it is in wane..how you will explain the rise to power of mayavathi,dmk,nitish etc..ravi , no one is linking islamist terror with common muslims of india..but to negate that there is a real threat from the islamist teaching and which is slowely and steadly consolidating some sections of the indian muslims ,is pathetic..fyi..there were six mysterious deaths in the north of kerala..all the victims were dalits..all of them were in love with muslim girls..ravi..the problem with you liberals and radicals are you dont have the guts to call a spade a spade..you are affraid of painted as a hindu fascist.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Omsanthi

You IMAGINE something about me and the castigate me for it.

Even in this specific FORUM I have said that Islamist Terrorism is regrettable and that I hope people responsible for it will think better of it.

However, what you wanted to was to slap me, and that you did, I hope that helps your bowel movement.

Terrorism is not what the perpetrator dishes out, it is what the receiver feels. People living in Indian Villages do not count Islamist bombs, but how the caste system oppresses their daily life. How for 100s of generations they have been ghettoised in their inferior status and deprived of any opportunity for progress.

Here SPADE is a shovel by another name.

Happy now.

[Reply]
ram autar

islamic jehadi attacks ilitary target if occupied.hindutva bstrds engineered 600 plus communal riots in india killed lacs

pls read

islamic jehadi attacks military target if occupied.hindutva bstrds engineered 600 plus communal riots in india killed lacs

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

Looking at Rahul Gandhi’s blabbering, it is time for BJP govts. to tighten noose on this ISI/LeT and IM supporter.
His girlfriend comes from mecca of drugs called columbia..no wonder this SOB is high on drugs all the time.
He deserves kick from Sharad Yadav who described him as ideological idiot in his bihar election speech.
Rahul Gandhi = Bullshit Inc.

[Reply]
ram autar

pathetic..fyi..there were six mysterious deaths in the north of kerala..all the victims were dalits..all of them were in love with muslim girls..ravi
a

ABSOLUTELY NON-SENSE ANY PROOF.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:37 pm
you are the proof..

[Reply]
ram autar

RECENT LIST OF HINDU TERRORIST,

1). Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit (37): He is the brain behind the Sept.29, 2008 blasts and the man that held it all together. He was the founder and one of the chief fund-raisers of the Pune-based organisation, Abhinav Bharat. He is also accused of procuring the RDX that was used in the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.5, 2008).

(2). Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur (38): Her bike was used to plant the bomb in Malegaon, and she is accused of engineering the blast. She has a Masters in History, and became a sadhvi in Jan.2007. (She was arrested on Oct.23).

(3). Rakesh Dhawde (35): Dhawde, an arms expert, has been booked for four previous bomb blast cases. He provided the required weapon training and supplied arms to Purohit. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(4). Swami Dayanand Pandey alias Shankar Acharya alias Sukhakar Dwuvedi (40): He can be seen as the key point man and is said to have been present at the meetings held in Bhopal, Pune and Faridabad before the Malegaon blasts. He is also accused of conducting meetings with the other accused. Prior to his arrest, he ran two ashrams in Kanpur and Jammu and Kashmir. (He was arrested on Nov.14, 2008).

(5). Retd. Maj. Ramesh Upadhyaya (64): A resident of Akurdi, Pune, he worked with the military’s intelligence unit, and is suspected to have provided the training required for procuring and assembling the bombs. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(6). Ajay Rahrikar (39): He was the treasurer of the Abhinav Bharat, and a part of the fund-raisers group. He paid Rs. 2.5 lakh to Swami Dayanand Pandey prior to the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(7). Jagdish Mhatre (40): A habitual criminal and an accused in a murder and an extortion case in Kalyan and Thane, he is believed to have paid Dhawde for the weapons. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(8). Sameer Kulkarni (32): A former member of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidhyarthi Parishad (ABVP), he was employed at a printing press. He is suspected to have supplied the chemicals used in the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(9). Sudhakar Chaturvedi (37): Originally a resident of Mirzapur in UP, Chaturvedi was picked up from Deolali where he stayed in a rented room. He is accused of conspiracy; the bomb was assembled in his house. (He was arrested on Nov.4, 2008).

(10). Sham Bhanwarlal Sahu (42): He is suspected to be one of the bomb planters. A commerce graduate from Christian College in Indore, Sahu has a mobile phone shop and also acted as a realty broker. He is also accused of abetting the blasts and conspiracy. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

(11). Shivnarayan Kalsangra Singh (36): A BSc graduate, Singh is seen as a “mechanical and electrical” expert by the ATS. He is suspected to have assembled the timer device while making the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:36 pm
These people have been named by ATS so you are accepting it as truth…Why don’t you accept same truth when ATS points towards Islamic terrorists like you?
Is your acceptance selective?

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Interesting op-ed in today’s new york times.. relates to what Mirza has been writing about “closing of Muslim m inds”..

About Arabs ..”if you cnnot change your own life it must be some other greaater force …..” “captive minds of the powerless’ inability to think for oneself…..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/opinion/21iht-edcohen21htm/?_r=1&hp

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:26 pm
fast fingers… oops ..here is the address
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/opinion/21iht-edcohen21.html?hp

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

New name for Rahul Gandhi – Rahul Ali Jinnah

[Reply]
Ravi

Once I visited SULABH toilets in New Delhi.

It was oversubscribed and a small queue had developed. I found myself behind a middle- aged Muslim gentleman, who was in obvious discomfort.

Then – as is the case with buses – at once two cubicles became available, next to each other. Both the Muslim gentleman and I entered the cubicles adjacent to each other. I had not sat down more than a couple of minutes when I started to hear weird noises which I attributed to be coming from the Muslim gentle man. The noises were not dissimilar to those made by a woman in the middle of her labour. The man’s discomfort was all to audible to every one.

In that moment of contemplation it became clear to me, as if my magic rather than logic, that:

1. Muslim diet, which is meat rich, is not good for easefully passing stools.

2. How advanced was Hinduism, for advocating vegetarian diet. West is only now catching up.

3. Venezuela is a failed state.

4. Bangaldeshi women who have received kidney transplant should be grateful to the NHS and not go visiting their home country with 6 months worth of anti rejection drugs. A proper Bengali woman would never had done that.

5. All this is due to faulty DNA of the Muslim Quom as a whole, even if most of them are converts.

6. Every time India loses a cricket match it is due to the Muslim players not pulling their weight and chucking their wickets on instructions fro Al Qaida.

7. New world wines can never be better than their French equivalent.

At that point, I realised how many benefits can be accrued by just sitting in Sulabh toilet. It is by far the best place where to concoct random anecdotes, which add up to no point what so ever.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 12:47 am
ravi saheb,

Brahmins were meat eaters
Now let us further see what are the laws contained in the Manu’s code and how far they are just and fair. The courts decide matters strictly conforming to the laws laid down in the Manu’s code, forgetting the fact that the Manu’s code is mainly intended to make a particular community (Brahmins) prosperous.

Origin: Brahma is the creator of the Manu Dharma. Later it was strictly disclosed by him to rishis. (Chap.1.S.59).

Atheists: Vedas and Dharma sastras should not be questioned or debated. He who does so will be considered an atheist (Chap.2.S.11).

Such an atheist who blames the vedas will be considered as accuser of god. (ibid).

Brahmins should not disclose this Manu Dharma Sastra to any other people. (Chap.1.S.103).

A King’s duty is to excommunicate the gamblers, actors, musicians, bad elements, those who defy the vedas and rituals, those who change their trades, and those who are found to consume intoxicating drinks. (Chap.9 S.226).

Division by birth: To safeguard the world, Brahma, created the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Sudras from his face, shoulders, thighs, and feet respectively and evolved different duties and responsibilities for each section separately. (Chap.1.S.87).

Because a Brahmin is born in the face of Brahma, because he is born of the highest caste, he alone has the right to receive and enjoy the wealth and property of all other castes and communities. (Chap.1.S.100).

Pride in begging: Even if a Brahmin begs for alms and receives help he eats his own. He wears his own clothes. He donates his own property. Others enjoy such things only at the mercy of Brahmins. (Chap 1.S.101).

Even if a Sudra were to do the work of a Brahmin, he will not become a Brahmin, because he has no right to do the work of a Brahmin.

Even if a Brahmin were to do the work of a Sudra, a Brahmin will not become a Sudra, because even if he does a low work, he belongs to the highest caste. (Chap.10.S.73).

Brahmins once non-vegetarians: All sorts of dishes as Vadai, Payasam and tasty flesh and sweet smelling waters are for the Brahmins. (Chap.5.S.227).

A Brahmin could eat any living being every day for the sake of his health. There is no sin attached to Brahmins eating the flesh of living beings. (Chap.5.S.30).

Particulars are given in the Manu Sastra, to please the dead forefathers by offering meat. Felsh of different birds and animals were also offered by Brahma to please god for different periods. Here are the details:

(1) Paddy, rice, water, black gram, roots and fruits satisfy the dead for one month. (2) Fishes please the dead of two months. (3) Stag’s flesh pleases the dead for 3 months. (4) Goat’s flesh pleases the dead for 4 months. (5) Bird’s flesh pleases the dead for 5 months. (6) Whitegoat’s flesh pleases the dead for 6 months. (7) Reindeer’s flesh pleases the dead for 7 months. (8) Black stag’s flesh pleases the dead for 8 months. (9) Kalaiman flesh pleases the dead for 9 months. (10) Flesh of porcupine, pig, bison, pleases the dead for 10 months. (11) Flesh of rabbit, tortoise pleases the dead for 11 months. (12) Cow’s milk, curd, ghee, pleases the dead for 1 year. (13) A male goat’s flesh pleases the dead for 12 years. (14) With vegetables grown in the season, a fish variety valai, flesh of a red coloured lamb, rice grown in forest lands, please the dead eternally.

In the month of Purattasi after the full moon on the 13th day, if honey, and Payasam are offered to the dead, that offering gives them full satisfaction. (Chap3.S.267 to 273).

If the Brahmin refuses to eat the flesh offered at the ceremonies he will be born as a cow 21 times. (Chap5.S.35).

A Sudra should be away from the house on the day of the performance of the ceremonies. (Chap.3.S.242).

(To be

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 1:24 am
@ravi, TOILET is where you belong , your inspiration , your “private space”, leave us in our STUDY, surrounded by books.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Ali Shan

As yet I have not once seen you quote from a book.

I have however heard you rubbish eminent scholars because they are Firangi.

You belong to RSS, a Hindu Terrorist organisation.

[Reply]
S Singh

Mirza/Binoy

An interesting, thought provoking book “Closing of the Muslim Mind: How intellectual suicide created the modern Islamist crisis’ was published few months ago by the author Robert R Reilly. He was articulating how there is a “theological terrorist safe haven” that is more dangerous than the “terrorist physsical haven” of Pakistan.

Ed Cohan is touching on a related aspect. How the unfree mind becomes a carrier for conspiracy theories — it is always others…

Muslims who believe in a vibrant Islam should work with others or in isolation to get out of this intellectul death and decline. In this light, I was dumbfounded that there was no analysis on how badly Pakistani athletes performed in the CWG game and in general in the recent sports competitions. (Cricket excluded) Pakistan used to be good in sports. Is the decline related to youngsters not being interested in sports? Or is it due to the fact that they have been barinwashed to do Allah’s job? If it is a loss of interest, why is this sudden or gradual loss of interest? I hiope somebody will look into this. This may give lot of insight into the young Pakistani (and pro jehadi Muslims) mind.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm
S Singh

So now the debate moves to the fundamentals. If a theory of their existening in Quran a theological haven for terrorists, is fascinating and intellectually attractive, then I guess you would find the following also attractive.

For centuries Hindu culture has fashioned itself as an – effeminate culture -, and that is the reason why it so easily fell under the domination of the Mughals and the British.

RSS is making a concerted and often – violent effort – to masculineise the Hindu Culture.

Here is an extract from a lecture given by Martha C Nussabaum.

________________________

But the (Hindu) traditions contain a wound, a locus of vulnerability, and I would locate this wound in the area of humiliated masculinity. For centuries, some Hindu males believe they have been subordinated, laughed at, treated as weak, by a sequence of conquerors. The fact that the British really did despise Hinduism as what Winston Churchill called “a beastly religion” surely made matters worse.

And Hindus came to identify the sexual playfulness and sensuousness of their traditions with their own weakness and subjection, so a repudiation of the sensuous and a cultivation of the sort of masculinity typified by Tagore’s image of the British military band came to seem the best way out of subjection. One reason why the RSS attracts such a following is this widespread sense of masculine failure, a key aspect of their rhetoric.

At the same time, the RSS filled a social void, organizing at the grassroots level with great discipline and selflessness. The RSS is not just a quasi-fascist organization; it also provides needed social services; and also it provides fun, luring boys in with the promise of a group life that has both more solidarity and more imagination than the tedious world of the government schools.

Golwalkar said that if he saw a peacock in his garden and wanted that beautiful bird to become his pet, he would feed it little bits of opium every day until it became addicted and then it would come to his garden every day. He said this was how the shakhas work, by the lure of fun and games. So they make boys obedient members of the organization.

___________________________________

So let’s see who forms an orderly queue to say the following:

Oh well Martha is a Jew. By the way so is Ed Cohen.

Martha is a Firangi, and we don’t need to learn about Hinduism from a Firangi.

Ed Cohen is not exactly a Muslim, He may be an authority in Islam, then so is Martha an authority on Indian issues.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Here we go again , The same winston churchill was remarked upon by his colleagues as “The hairy one hanging from the tree”, the same bulldog’s bum lookalike encouraged his daughter in law being fornicated by the american ambassador , in return for american food and arms to withstand the battle of britain. So whatever a complete d i c k head like you churchill said about hinduism , should not rile the hindus. This is what schoupenhaur thought of hinduism
“I owe what is best in my own development to the impression made by Kant’s works, the sacred writings of the Hindus, and Plato,” Schopenhauer has confessed. In The World as Will and Representation, there are several references to Buddhist thought. And in Parerga and Paralipomena, Schopenhauer discusses the merits of various translations of sacred Hindu texts. Schopenhauer was the first major German philosopher to study the Vedic and Buddhist texts. He become acquainted with Hindu thought around 1813-14, but he did not acquire much knowledge of Buddhism until after 1818. The sacred Hindu texts he once called “the consolation of my life.” His library had some 130 items of orientalia.
I would contend that this Hindu Mutation called RSS as everybody knows was MARATHI NATIONALISM , trying to recreate the Empire of shivaji, by lording over rest of hindus in other states ,just as they have done in PREBRITISH period when they raided \Bengal and were called BORGI (marauders). This anti muslim and hindu obscurantism bias is an invention by the MARATHI BRAMHINS (apparently the entire managing committee during its early years were MARATHI BRAMHINS. It is a marathi version of arab nationalism and WAHABI ISLAM rolled into one. For each RSS member there is TEN THOUSAND honourable humanistic HINDUS

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Ali Shan the stealth Rationalist & Humanist.

” For each RSS member there is TEN THOUSAND honourable humanistic HINDUS”

How sad that you are not one of them.

Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Schopenhauer read the Latin translation of the Upanishads which had been translated by French writer Anquetil du Perron from the Persian translation of Prince Dara Shikoh entitled Sirre-Akbar (“The Great Secret”).

Remind me what religion was Dara Shikoh.

Schopenhauer said he was influenced by the Upanishads, Immanuel Kant and Plato. References to Eastern philosophy and religion appear frequently in Schopenhauer’s writing. As noted above, he appreciated the teachings of the Buddha and even called himself a “Buddhist”.[65] He said[66] that his philosophy could not have been conceived before these teachings were available.

He liked the Hindu writings so much that he decided call himself a Budhist.

We know what happened to Buddhism in India don’t we.

ram autar Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 pm
they are asian champion of men and women hockey.and cricket also india had no place.
i dont support them but this is truth.compare ur performance in asian games.

[Reply]
shan

@S Singh, and LMirza, to understand or to find an indirect clue I think we need to look at the source code of Islam , that is Judaism. I have profound interest in its history and its religion. jewish religion can give islam run for its money in its obscurantism. But why it is that jews became torch bearer of modern civilization. Part of the answer may lie in the fact they were REFUGEES , and for them it was a matter of survival, and they did suffer prejudice like hell , be it ring fenced in pales in russia(appaerntly the progrom is referred to jewish persecution in russia and poland). this is the reason they took to commerce , study and incredible jewish tradition is to EDUCATE THE GIRLS , IN PREFERENCE TO BOYS, because aa ignorant mother will give rise ignorant children. As to religion their Rabbis are incredibly learned person , who have interpreted and reinterpreted in light of prevailing situation at the time.
judaism is also word of god and there are countless shenanigans of jewish god , but somehow jewish leaders have always been open and highly objective. I read a book on Judaism by a rabbi Cohen. It is history of the jews, such a contrast with any recent book on islam by an islamic author. With Islam everything is best , last and supreme, immutable. Whereas this book written by a Rabbi , was such a detached and objective narrative, I think unless oil dries out nothing will happen , after that introspection will begin.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Ali SHAN the semi trained Varicose Vein remover.

Let’s list the areas that you have previously stated as being of “Profound Interest” to you.

1. Digital Sound recording technologies.

2. Corporate Culture around the world with special emphasis on failure of Indian Industry to keep up with China.

3. Stealth Technology as explained by the rag – Jane’s Weekly.

4. Eugenics – particularly related to the Muslim Quom and demaged DNA. If you can’t get them on theology, get them on biology.

5. Moral ethics surrounding transplant operations for undeserving Muslim Immigrant communities, with special emphasis on Bangladeshis. (They are not Bengalis, you know)

6. Hosting of Sumo wrestling events in Paris and its meaning in the context of “ Oh Nothing”

7. Exploring the relation-ship between Islamic Terrorism and Islam, without mentioning US Foreign Policy in the Middle East.

8. An explanation of why Orthodox Jews can be called as “torch bearers of modern civilization”

It is a pity that your interest does not go beyond expressing home spun gibberish often based upon trivial personal experiences. A good basis from which to form informed opinions.

I salute you – with two fingers – for being a very good example of being a Walter Mitty like character.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 4:03 pm
@ravi , you will need that two fingers in the toilet , to ease the passage.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Ali Shan, the Hindu Fundo, who hunts for tits bits of content in order to support his pre-formed anti Muslim prejudices.

How right you are and soon after I have used the said two ingers I will shove them down your throat as a convinient way of cleaning them.

Good game, good game.

shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 11:46 pm
@ravi,you would ram it down your own throat that will be far far closer to you.

Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 12:05 am
Shan

That is ture, but what would be the joy in that.

Much more fun ramming it down ur fascist throat.

Is it time again to offer you the opportunity to desist from this mindless name calling. Stick to point making and I will respond in kind.

Regards

Ravi (Yes sadly that is my real name)

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Shan

These rabbis are well paid – $100,000 plus to be a rabbi in the local synagogure.. Jewish people know that you have to pay well to get the best .. They can go after the slightest indication of Amtisemitism (which they can see in anything), and demad for more and more support for Israel…

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Well, the “conventional” wisdom among Muslims (and secularists, and many others) is that it is only a minority who harbor and conduct terrorist activities.

There was a gem in the wikileaks among the diplomatic intrigues. In a 2009 poll on UK Muslim students “32% of UK muslim students across 30 UK universities believe killing in the name of Isllam is justified, while 40% want Sharia law imposed for Muslims in UK”

People are smoking something if they believe 32% is a tiny minority..

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Binoy

What proportion of Muslims Students are of the Muslim Poulation as a whole.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:58 pm
@Binoy, well immediately after 9/11 , there was a letter to the editor, in The Times ,London. The author was a pakistani muslim boy from glassgow, he said every one around himthat is parents relatives, muslim friends all supported 9/11 and has huge sympathy for the man in the caves of north waziristan.

[Reply]
Dr Dev Misra

Dear Shan

I see that you get provoked easily and then write long responses. This gives repeated opportunity to the likes of ramautar and Ravi to write equally long poisoned monologues, although Ravi is the more polished of the two.
Why bother replying? Who cares about what Martha whoever writes? This year we have had Sarkozy, Cameron, Obama, Wen and many others coming to our shores with repsect and admiration- that speakes for itself.
This blog is about the relative dangers of Islamic vs Hindu terrorism, make 1 or 2 succint contributions and withdraw. Do not give the oxygen of publicity to the trolls- a unique modern phenomenon of ppl who log on and obsessively and often abusingly make the same point with no constructive purpose in mind.
There are good contributions by patriotic Indian muslims like L Mirza, Shoeb K etc and one must respond to them. Can I make a difficult suggestion, this also goes out to Gopi, Binoy, Ashish etc- PLEASE DO NOT EVER RESPOND TO RAVI AND RAMAVTAR AGAIN.

BW to all, D MISHRA

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:27 pm
Binoy

I got that, however they represent a tiny minority of the Muslim Universe.

During the Vietnam War, Uni students were asked if they supported war or not and more than 80% said no they did not.

However, do you think that changed the US policy in East Asia.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Dr Mishra

I guess that you are a bit time pressed to read all of the contibutions I have made to this blog. So let me re-iterate.

1. Islamic Terrorism is a threat. Not as big as some bloggers and you here think.

2. TO ME in INDIA, the HINDU RIGHT is a bigger terrorist threat that Islamic terrorist threat is.

The reason why SHAN continues to do what he does, is because his agenda is.

1. Look how great Hinduism is. He does not know his own religion.

2. Look how bad the Islam – as a religion – is. Ha ha 1.3 billion people will diagree with him.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:43 pm
1. Islamic terrorism is the biggest threat, from mmy perspective. You should have said from your perspective, instead of a judgment type statement.

Muslims themselves will be the biggest losers if they whitewash or brush under the carpet..

2. You can believe in that, free country allows everybody to have their opinion. I

On ur Shan point 2 – Well, the remaining 6 billion people believe there is something fundamentally wrong.. And the 1 billion Arabs/Muslims, you say will not agree with Shan,unfortunately, are the most backward in the world. today. .. backward in education, achievements, accomplishments, on any social metrics — the only claim to fame now is jehadism and terrorism (Yes, virginia, theer was a Golden period, but it was 900 years ago…wake up)

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Binoy

I admire your imagination.

Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
All

I speak for myself and will leave Ram Autar to represent himself.

“Gopi, Binoy, Ashish etc- PLEASE DO NOT EVER RESPOND TO RAVI AND RAMAVTAR AGAIN.”

Be my guest. It will be no skin off my hooter.

I do notice, that Dr Mishra did not ask me to stop contributing.

So guys I will continue.

Where good analysis and points are made, I always acknowledge. Even when they do not sit comfortably with my own feelings. Both Vinay and Binoy have been the beneficiaries of this.

Where I believe that a crude attempt is being made to stigmatise an entire community by employing illogical presentation of selective facts, then I will counter that.

My proposition has been and remains.

Islamic terrorism is terrible and it should stop.

But here Political Islam is being employed to further secular political agenda by various groups. This covers a vast majority of what we see as Islamic terrorism. Sadly, there is also a PURE RELIGIOUS element to Islamic terrorism, which is deplorable, and it my humble opinion that it is a passing phase. Opposition to such mindless Jihad is fair game.

However, in saying the above I am not about to let Political Hinduism off the hook. It also employs terrorism and has been doing so for centuries.

I will abuse those, who abuse me and not others. Once again Gopi, Binoy and Vinay have been mostly spared any abuse.

So let the debate continue.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
dr this is called intellectual goondaism and spirituaal fascism ,the 2 gignatic octopuses sucking the very vitals of our society.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

ravi – the poll was conducted among Muslim university students.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Binoy

Hare is a survey conducted by Gallup.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/144971/Political-Issues-Key-Muslim-West-Engagement.aspx

[Reply]
Vinay

@Binoy,

Regarding the New York Times article (the link you provided) :
Ten years ago, Indian government also used to point at ISI for any bombing inside India. Now we have realized, our boys (and girls too! Remember Sadhvi Pragya?) are also equally capable of. Now ISI conspiracy has been overshadowed by Diggy conspiracy theory. Speciality of Arab conspiracy theory is that it has much wider audience.

I am just wondering, is Narendra Modi behind Radia Tapes. On one side, this episode exposed the corrupt practices in Congress government. On the other hand, it silenced most of the journalists who used to oppose him. Two birds in one shot. (Corruption in Karanataka irked only the BJP national leaders. Modi was safe). Many people, who never imagined him as a PM candidate have started to consider the option. Is my theory sounding good? (Diggyji, when you say it next, please acknowledge me for the idea ).

[Reply]
Dr Dev Misra Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Vinay, correct me if I am wrong, but the alleged saffron attacks are from 2007 onwards.

Prior to that, we in India had got used to Islamist attacks almost on a yearly basis- they were ghastly, murderous and indiscriminate- stock exchange bldgs, Diwali shoppers markets (Sarojini Nagar, Jaipur etc), temples- Akshardham, Parliament- 2001, even- heavens forbid- an international science convention in Bangalore when a professor was shot on stage. I have not mentioned the systematic ethnic cleansing of hidus and sikhs from Kashmir from 1989 onwards or Kasab.

So, evil though these saffron attacks are, one must recognise that they are reactionary. And while I say- go after Sadhvi Pragya and Col Purohit ruthlessly if they are guilty- it would be a cretin who did not realise that the primary phenomenon is far more dangerous and must be fought on a war footing. In Batla house encounter, an Inspector was shot and yet the whole of the local Jamia colony and Azamgarh went into denial. Now most links with Azamgarh have been proven- in fact, in a totally neutral book on Mumbai- Maximum City, written several years ago, the author had quite non chalantly mentioned the Azamgarh Etawah Islamist connection back then.

India is now a dangerously dry tinderbox, it needs to cool down. I pray to God that we do not have a single Islamist terrorist attack for 10 years, there will be no more of Abhinav Bharat terrorist cells then, and economic progress would take deep hold and would be the only aspiration for any radicalised youth. Jai Hind

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Dr Mishra. Jai Hind.

Please can you take two minutes to explain the readers here the difference between Pakistan Sponsored Terrorism and Islamic Terrorism.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:54 pm
misra jee batala house encounter was for money.nobody had any terrorist record.these boys had no weapon sharma(bloody thug)was shot from back by his own people.he shot the boys from very close range.may be after areesting.these brhmn thugs were on killing from long time , till supreme court orderd an enquiry on daya nayek (inspector had 3000 crores in bank accout,salary 5000 only)
terrorism was used for thuggy purpose.

abhivanav bharat had their offices in isreal.they wanted to kill mohan bhagwat as well.they were carrying out these to create anarchy.they were continously stealing arms and rdx from defence stores.they were involved in 99%of bomb blasts.karkare paid for his life for exposing them.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:28 pm
@Vinay, did you need the radia tapes to convince you about corruption in politics. i had written a long passage in response to a blogger named Lenin, and gave him my intimate knowledge of corruption during socialist command economy era.These things happen because it is not open auction, also corruption will be virtually impossible to make a dent. I understand americans think a little bit of corruption is good , IT GREASESTHE SYSTEM , things move quickly, then again that is america , they themself have fair bit of corruption. I think corruption is not the MAIN problem.The main problem is far more fundamental, agriculture is stone age, education and HIGHER EDUCATION is shit and doesn’t reach 50% population , industry(bar IT, Software) is great by bangladesh standard, not global standard. there is not a single indian brand in global top hundreed brands.
@deb Mishra, ABHINAV BHARAT needs to be destroyed root and branch , full stop , IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAMIC TERRORISM , india is not abhinav bharat’s “bap ka maal”

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Shan

Abhinav Bahart

Abhinav Bharat can refer to two organizations one of which is an Hindu nationalist organisation based mainly in Maharashtra in India. The Hindu nationalist organization gained prominence when its members were arrested for allegedly perpetrating the Malegoan bombing. The other Abhinav Bharat is a Public Charitable Trust which is in no way connected with any act of violence or any illegal activity of any kind. Abhinav Bharat – the Trust has filed a WP PIL 02 of 2009 in Bombay High Court against the use of name “Abhinav Bharat” by the Hindu nationalist organization.

Which one did you mean?

Ashish Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:31 pm
@Dev Misra,
Just curious- why did you mention Etawah in the same breath as Azamgarh while talking about Islamic linkages?
These towns are hundreds of kilometers apart, physically. And, I for one have not heard of Islamic terror with origins in Etawah. Being on the ravines of Chambal, it has lawlessness, but of a different kind.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Ashish

I have never been to Etawah. However, my father was posted to Kanpur when I was a child.

The Train Journey I took to go and visit him, used to go via Etawah.

Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:07 am
Ravi,
Did you live on Nai Sadak area?

Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 am
Rajeev

On this occassion I will respond. I know what you are trying to do.

As a boy I was in the Ajmal Khan Park Shakha of the RSS

Ashish Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am
@Ravi,
We lived in Old Rajinder Nagar from 1977 to 1986 and played football on the Salwan School grounds every afternoon- no did not study there.
As an immigrant to the city of Delhi, I saw the RSS mahasabha for the first time on the Salwan school ground. Probably you were there among those marching/ doing drills.

Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Ashish

I do remember Old Rajinder Nagar, often walked through it while visting my uncle who lived in Double Storey Quarters in New Rajinder Naagar, the other side of Shanker Road.

Is’nt it amzing how much local knowledge can be gleemed from Google Maps. I say this because as you know I am a Pakistani, circumcised ISI agent, now living in Karachi.

I am sure that I was not there during the period you are talking about, I had already left India by then.

Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Ravi,
So you went to Ajmal Khan LeT Sakha…Thanks for clarification.

shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 12:59 am
@ravi,you do not need google map, RECONAISSANCE mission will yield a lot of information with details , the kind that headley did, befriending rahul Bhatt,getting legs over Arati Chabria.

Ravinar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:49 am
My response to your various posts can be found on http://www.mediacrooks.com

Thanks
Ravinar

ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
ravinar i read this article.nothing but rubbish and stupid propaganda.he wants the ban on deoband ,because they ask for ban on jeans in schools.a lot of indian hindu organizations and schools have also pleaded for this.
i will catageirize article as non sense.

Ravinar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Anything that doesnt fit in with your views and beliefs is rubbish and nonsense? I’d say that is pretty Islamic !!

shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@Ravinar, went to your blog site. Every word you write is true , but as they sat TRUTH HURTS. As to UK , i can feed you some information which you will find useful. The muslim students in University College London refused to use common prayer room as it is used by INFIDELS, INSTEAD THEY PERFORMED NAMAZ ON STREETS BLOCKING TRAFFIC. Heathrow and the GIFT SHOP of WINDSOR CASTLE now has NAMAZ room for its employees. I am not sure if this is british tolerance or is it OIL. UK has got contract with Libya for exploration , Al Yamaha 2 with saudi is in the offinf to supply 20 plus billion of arms. Average Brit loathe these NUTS but will tolerate for the sake of the riches that the country may loose out. As for DAILY MAIL it is a s o n o f a b i t c h tabloid which represents the english nationalism which is viler than wahabi islam, and it is equally if not more prejudiced towards HINDUS and anybody non english.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Vinay

ISI is Einstein while Pragya etc is a stupid professor who copies articles to get tenure. ISIs foul play and terror training and terror connections is all well-known now, by governments all over the world. But i agree with you that India cannot blame ISI for all events. All terrorist acts should be pursued and prosecuted.

Congress will be a big loser if they cannot “control” Digvijay. The results of Bihar election, and the calm aftermath of Ayodhya verdict proved that Indian populace is far ahead and far matured than the “Pundits” and secular gurus. Digvijay’s discussion with Karkare (my foot — Karkare called him two hours before he was killed — and he is “revealing” it now after 2 years!) an d his new crusade against RSS is an election ploy to counter the sea of corruption congress is swimming in. But it will not work! Bihar has shown the vote gathering power of the crown prince..No embellishment is going to help.

Whether Narendra Modi is behind publishing the tapes is a moot point (and if he is, he is one of the most brilliant tactician and strategist and deserves to be the PM). The fact is that huge corruption happened with the collusion of Congress, DMK, industrialists, journalists. Radia did her job — in fact I wonder, how Radia was able to get so much access and influence across all the spectrum in such a short time without being born into a “connected family” or wealth.. That gives me hope that anybody in India can rise to the top of their field as long as you are great in your field, just like in US..

Gujrat has been growing spectacularly – and an inclusive growth with rural areas growing in tandem with urban areas. Recently there was a report on growth in the agricultural sector of Gujrat – unbelievable growth due to pragmatic policies on power supply, storage etc . Gujrat is stable, riot free (after the major riot in 2002). It is a state where there is net migration in (including Muslims, for Modi bashers) . Every mother/father wants a better life for their children; Modi, if he can continue his growth performance, will definitely be elected as the nation’s leader. With news of corruption eveywhere, a simple man – no family attachments, no need to be corrupt or to amass money for progeny – who has produced results will get the national attention. People will not give any weight to the early 2000 riots if he can keep Gujrat riot free for another five years.. 30% of the voters at that time would not even know what Godhra and post riots were. They will know Modi as the only leader in India that delivered results to his people making the State a model – with growth, highways, inclusivity, etc etc while all other states are bogged down with corruption, cronyism, family nepotism, weak adminsitration, corrupt beaureaucarcy etc.. People reward results.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:04 pm
@Misra, Binoy,

When I meant “our boys and girls”, I meant “Indian”. (I should have been more specific). If you remember, our government had made ISI responsible for Dawood sponsored Mumbai bombings in 1993. Even Bangalore bombings by PDP was dubbed as ISI initially, as our intelligence was so good. I gave Pragya’s example for girls. (In fact, Islamic terror doesn’t involve a prominent women name. Compare it to Pragya or Dhanu (Rajiv). Another proof for equality of women in India!) Please, please .. take it in a lighter spirit, this time at least.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Modi : I just floated a conspiracy theory similar to Iran behind US-Iraq war. Man, you are taking my words too seriously!

ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 12:26 am
In Batla house encounter, an Inspector was shot and yet the whole of the local Jamia colony and Azamgarh

it was work of abhinav bharat.no muslim was involve in bomb planting.this is speciality of hindu
fascist.

Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Nazi Germany was very strong. That did not make it right

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 4:06 pm
@Binoy Hegde, your words”in fact I wonder, how Radia was able to get so much access and influence across all the spectrum in such a short time without being born into a “connected family” or wealth.. ”
bribes and h o o k ers, not exactly rocket science is it.

[Reply]
Kishan

Zia has conveniently omitted one fact. The fact is that Rahul Gandhi is still a student and his teacher is Digvijay, the famous pseudo who launched a book alleging that 26/11 was an RSS conspiracy. Does Zia subscribe to this conspiracy theory or is sympathetic to this theory? If so, nothing he writes carries any credibility.
One more point. Hindus are being radicalized not by RSS which has been around for seven decades but by the terror attacks on India being carried out in the name of Islam and Jihad for many decades now.
Why is your blog titled “They call me Muslim” ? Could you not think of a secular title?

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:03 pm
Kishan -
Zia has the audacity, sheer audacity to state “Can we, for the PHANTOM (caps by me) fear of PAkistan, choose a lid on one source of terror, while constantly focusing on the other”….

PHANTOM fear of Pakistan? After all the revealings about ISI/Army involvement in sending terrorists to India, the last “well known” one being the gruesome 11/26, he says it is “PHANTOM”?

The US Ambasssdor cable leakings about ISI training Indian Muslims to target and kill political leaders and cause communal disturbance – he calls it “PHANTOM” fear?

The leakings about setting terror camps in Kerala and Tamil Nadu and he calls it “PHANTOM” fear?

Fellow Indians, neither the Congress Government nor its poodles like Zia and the other HT secularists (remember vir Sanghvi?)is going to prtect you. You should do the necessary thing to protect yourself!

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Zia has the audacity, sheer audacity to state “Can we, for the PHANTOM (caps mine) fear of Pakistan, choose a lid on one source, while continually focusing on the other”..

PHANTOM fear? ISI/army tarined terrorists attacking Mumbai 11/26 a PHANTOM fear?

ISI/army constant incursion into Kashmir a PHANTOM fear?

The recent revelation of ISI/Army tarining people to kill politicians in India a PHANTOM fear?

The recent revelation of setting up terror training camps in Kerala and TAmil Nadu a PHANTOM fear?

Congress government and its poodles like HT journalists like Zia and Vir Sanghvi (remeber him?) will not help Indians , will not protect Indians. Peopel better notice this and do the needful.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 am
No wonder Zia has been denied US Visa…This guy is Islamofascist.

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

The official policy of Congress is to support terror against hindus. We need to change that. We can not be ruled LeT’s Indian wing called Congress.

Today India has a minority that supports congress terror against majority. We have to win confidence of minorities who have been misguided by congress. The minorities need to understand that they are part of the country too and if country keeps getting bombed, they too will be affected.

The people like Ravi who support Islamic terror are part of the problem and should be solved in due course of time. The Indian minority needs detoxification fast. The hindus should also isolate extremist elements and neutralise them.

I feel if Purohit, Pragya etc. are found guilty, they should be executed immediately unlike Afzal Guru. The hindus have no sympathy for low-lives like Purohit and Pragya.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Would agree with you on Purohit and Pragya. We need to show we are different. Instead of saying “you know such things happen BECAUSE …”

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:01 am
Totally…We need to punish hindu extremists and make an example for muslims to follow.

[Reply]
Ashish

@Raju Kurien,
My response to you never got posted.. so, I am keying in a short summary .. let’s get back to jehadis and the imbecile called Rahul Gandhi after this.
the Economist article itself points out that all Indian villages are not like the the featured village; it says it at length “India is too vast…”
Also, I wish I could be as sanguine regarding bad social practices going away with prosperity- South Delhi has among the worst female infanticide rate in the country; Haryana has 804 girls born for every 1000 boys- prosperity seems to be empowering misogyny and criminality.

@Vinay, likewise. The system swallowed my magnum opus )-: ; so, another very short post just on the key points.
social change will not happen in one generation; and of course appropriate and universal education will need to support the drive.
Thanks for the summary lesson in South Indian society over the years.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Ashish

Yup..

You are right about Haryana/ and similar places/people; again showing how regional situations are different and complex from one village/town/state to another.

In an indirect way, national integration is being achieved by the low girls/boys ratio in states like Haryana. . There are whole villages in Haryana where men have married women from kerala., partlly because there are not enough women (due to female infanticide) and partly due to the fact that these women can work outside home (as nurse, teacher and other professiosn) and there is a “newfound” respect for women.. It seems one guy in Haryana married a local nurse (originally from northen Kerala); he and his family are terribly happy, and others are follwoing him to this place in kerala to get married. Apparently 200 marriages like this have happened in just one village . India Today had an article on this last year.

This particular community in Kerala has a “reverse” problem. Kerala is the only state where there are more women than men (demographers consider this the best situation) 1038/1000; and in this particular community if a girl remains unmarried after 25 or so, it seems it is difficult to get married; there are not enough men to marry “older” girls.

So, some good is happening from the grotesque practice of infanticide…

However, .Prosperity without education and awareness is unidimensional; not good for the long term

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Raju

Well said. I am with you on this.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 10:36 pm
@Raju Kurien,
thanks again; most interesting ..

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

someone asked me- please differentiate between Pak inspired terror and Islamic terror in India. Dont even know if I wish to respond to this silly hair splitting question, esp when I had said I would not be responding to anything from ramautar or ravi. But one last time, here goes-

Does it matter whether I have my legs blown away while doing Diwali shopping in Sarojini nagar (where I actually used to go a lot) whether the detonator was Kasab from Pak or Atif Amin from Azamgarh. These two groups are often intertwined- hen a rank outsider slinks in from Pak, he is given shelter and local info by some radicalised muslim youth deep down in some slum or mohalla. In many cases, when the terrorist is shot – Parliament 2001 or Akshardham- we never even know their identity.

Suffice it to say that there is a transnational muslim ummah, and the militant of one region helps the other. The target and objective are the same- hatred of the hindu and of India, and the desire to inflict as blood curdling a wound as possible. The same hatred applies to the Jew or Christian, hence the attack on the Jewish center in Mumbai 2008, where the Jewish couple was actually TORTURED before death.

Kasab being caught alive was a very lucky break otherwise Pak would say he is your angry muslim, or a BJP plant.

Dawood, Tiger Memon etc etc are class examples of where Islamic terror and Pak terror are intertwined. Also where Faisal of Times Square bombing, Abdullah of Sweden, the 7/7 bombers in London, Dr Bilal of Glasgow bombing (roots in Bangalore) are all intertwined. A veritable United Nations of Terrorist Islamists- the ummah.

I am tired, if my fellow Indians cannot realise the sheer enormity of this danger (Antulay, Digvijay, Amar Singh etc- all dangerous deniers) then God help India. 9/11 rocked USA and world economy, imagine 2 such attacks in the same year on India or USA and see the domino effect.

Pak inspired or local Islamists, who cares?

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:27 am
Dr Mishra

Many thanks.

I rest my case. Nothing more needs to be said.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 1:58 am
Regarding Bangalore connection of Glasgow airport bombing terrorists – i am from Dakshin Canara, studied in Banaglore..

Glasgow bombing connection to indian Muslims — Dr Bilal was Iraqui; however Sibal Ahmed and Kafeel Ahmed were Indians.

Kafeel Ahmed, an aeronautical engineer, died in the bombing (poetic justice!). His brother Dr Sibal Ahmed, a doctor in liverpool, did not particpate in the bombing; however knew about what his brother and his friends (Dr bilal, Dr Aisha Muhamed) were plotting. Dr Sibal Ahmed is now back in India (I am sure working with jehadi groups)

Who are Kafeel and Sibal? Are they deprived, discriminated Muslim children of India?

Bangalore has a rich, urbane Muslim crowd, reasonably integrated. There are powerful Muslim politicians, witha dynasty foundd by the late Jaffer Khan, ex railway minister and ex-driver of Mrs Indira Gandhi. (GAadhis always reward their loyal servants!)

Both parents of Sibal and Kafeel are doctors. Not only doctors, they own and operate a hospital in Banaglore.. You can say filthy rich..

Kafeel got admitted to a prestigious engineering college. His brother to medical college. Both were good students; and my understanding is they got on merit.

Kafeel, I believe, got a Govt of india scholarship to study masters ina eronautical engg in a UK university.

Not deprived boys, not discriminated boys, not poor children, not looked down upon, not ghjettoized…

The good thing is that they did not bomb India — under Zia’s admiration of the Mullah of Deoband who died recently, the fact that the brothers dod not bomb india should make them heroes! (but wait, time is not out on the brother Sibal)

They bombed glasgow airport for the Ummah; as Dr Misra stated. A sibal and many other Sibals will explode for their Ummah in India. It is a question of time.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 2:02 am
, ,

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 2:06 am
Correction :Jaffer Shariff ; not Jaaffer Khan(ex railway minister)

[Reply]
Gopi Thomas Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 5:56 pm
@Binoy

The nineteen 9/11 bombers were rich Muslim kids too; a few from exclusive boarding schools in Paris.
Most of the recent arrests from Kerala – related to ISI/LeT training, Kashmir attacks, Bangaloree xplosion etc – were also rich kids. Not deprived, ghettoized… (no ghettoes here in kerala anyway; you have a Hindu house next to a Christian house, next to a Muslim house)

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 4:33 am
@D Mishra your words” Imagine 2 such attacks in usa or india,
to calm your nerves , this is a retreival of my previous posting
Shan Reply:
December 5th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

@Tejender, just one more attack on US, pakistan will be PULVERISED, along with all the SCUMS’, remember what america said to pakistan “Join us or else we will send you to STONE AGE”. There is a retribution plan according the book OBAMAS WARS ,150 places from the data base will be pounded till it returns to stone age , no consideration will be given to civilian or religious places.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 7:13 am
what about two 11/26 mumbai type in india -

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 2:56 pm
@Binoy Hegde , according to wikileaks another 26/11 , will invite retribution from India , but it will be bowling of Sreesanth , rather than Brett lee, which you will see after another minor attack on US.

ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 am
shan even if there 10 attacks ,they will not retakiate.pakistan is at very stragetic position.pakistani rulers are corrupt and incompetent they can take advantage of this factor.americans are not so stupid as u high caste hindus.indian army is too swimming corruptin and jaatiwaad.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 9:36 am
Dawood, Tiger Memon etc etc are class examples of where Islamic
they ar muslims but nothing to do with islam.most oftheir gang members were hindus.tiger memom entered among them only after a his entire property was destroyed by hindu fascists.

mishra u r doctor why u are lying.because u r brhmn.hate is ur duty and lie is ur staple food.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
this blast was handiwork of hindu terrorist.police caught few persons under hindu pressure could prove nothing.cbi could not prove any of his case against muslims ,always got bad comment from judge.but these acts make wrong perception against muslims.

[Reply]
http://www.hindustantimes.com Kap Leap

Zia has put his pain precisely. ” Everytime, a Muslim commits an act of terror, my head hangs in shame. ” He finally has got an excuse and a sympathizer (Gandhi et al) to ease his burden of shame. The Muslim terrorists have killed thousands of Indian people so far. The destruction they caused goes in billions and trillions of dollars and no one could even value a person’s life that has fallen to these attacks. To compare these kind of attacks with the attacks that allegedly the hindu activists made indicates a pathetic and desperate attempt of the author to alleviate his burden. The lives lost due to the so called Hindu terrorist attacks are as valuable as the other lives and these attacks should be condemned. But to claim that the danger and harm posed by hindus and Muslim terrorists is equivalent (or greater) is unfair to all Indians.
Zia, please take some professional help if the burden of shame is making your life miserable. But please don’t insult us.

[Reply]
ram autar

rajeev and mihra u all are for jati,not for rules of law.HINDUISM IS SWIMMING IN CORRUTION.The all-round solid support Karnataka’s most corrupt CM, Yeddyurappa, got from the entire godmen who control the Brahminic world, should once for all convince us that corruption is the other name for Brahminism.

All these godmen are sitting on mountains of money, generously donated by all such corrupt rascals. More corruption means more money to Brahmin temples.

Intellectual corruption: All the powerful godmen like the Pejawara Swamy, Dharmastala Hegde, “Sri Sri” Ravishankar, Shankaracharyas and the richest of the lot, Satya Sai Baba, the king of the frauds, have all blessed the CM and promised to stand by him.

The Lingayat swamis went on a strike to defend him. Not a single Brahminic “intellectual” was so far spoken against the CM.

What is the conclusion? Brahminism will never, ever let down its jatwala whatever may be his or her crimes. Yeddyurappa is the standing proof

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 5:04 pm
@Autar

“Hinduism is swimming in corruption”
OK, we will learn from Pakistan.

Intellectual corruption : … Dharmastala Hegde …
Dharmastala Hegde is not a Brahmin, A Jain. For your information, Hegde surname is shared by both (Ram Krishna Hegde: A Brahmin, Dharmastala Veerendra Hegde: A Jain). I remember you claiming “Jainism is nemesis of Brahminism”. What is your new theory?

” Brahminism will never, ever let down its jatwala ”
What Jati you are taking about? Karnataka CM is neither Brahmin, nor Jain. He is a Lingayat(/Veerashaiva). Veerashaiva is been an anti-Brahmin movement. According to your earlier statements, lingayats have been anti-Jains too. Then why are Brahmins and Jains
supporting a Lingayat CM?

In every caste, some leaders support BJP, some are against and some are neutral. Pejawara Swamy, indirectly supports CM, U. R. Ananthamurthy (Yeah, a “liberal” Brahmin) hates BJP, people like Veerendra Hegde never get involved in politics (By the way, he is well respected by muslim community for his social welfare works).

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 5:57 pm
@Vinay, Why dont uyou just point out that of the two hundreed or so killed on 26/11 FIFTY WERE MUSLIM, now this cretin may ask for evidence of circumcision.Also here are some evidence of TERRORISTAN

Headley revealed to the NIA that an officer of the ISI was assigned to train him in the finer aspects of intelligence gathering and subterfuge, before he set off on his repeated recces of potential targets in India.

“The training given by this officer under the guidance of Major Iqbal was much more scientific and effective than the training I received in LeT camps,” he said.

Investigators now believe as far as 26/11 was concerned, the LeT was merely the executive arm of the ISI and Headley was its spy-in-chief.

The ISI officer trained Headley in building sources and handling them.

Another important aspect was how to take cover. After theory lessons, Headley’s trainer, he said, would send him out to the streets of Lahore for practical training

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
26/11 was joint game of fbi isi and brhmnst of ib had many purposes.why kasab was not engaged at cst for 4 hrs.leopold caffe was fired by europeas.jewish coule died of nsg bullets.many southindian brhmns were allowed to go.at cst burqa clad women were particularly targeted.

Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Afghanistan is biggest producer of opium.
shan

@Binoy Hegde, slight digression , just read in one of thiose free papers that are distributed to the commuters called City AM. “A former New York state attorney has said the lawsuit against Ernst& Young for allegedly assisting Lehman Brothers financial fraud is likely to be based on strong evidence and have a high chance of success”. can you please enlighten us bloggers. Also this shows how corruption should be dealt EFFICIENTLY rather than the ruffian politics in India.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Shan-
As you may know, there are several state and federal cases going on against Lehman Bros/and connected parties.
This particular case is filed by New York State Attorney General, Andrew Cuuomo (who will ebcome Governor in January, his successor eric Schneiderman will prosecute the case). The AGs case against Ernst&Young, the auditor of Lehman, is for helping Lehman “engage in a massive accounting fraud” by misleading invetor about the health of the investment bank.

Lehman used to shift debt off the book just before the end of each quarter (park debt somewhere else for a short term repo that will show less debta nd more cash), so quarterly statements will not show the real debt that was there. It is sort of like a house of cards.The suit focuses on this, especially the approval of Ernst to this practice..

The transactions involved the “surreptitious removal of tens of billions of dollars of securities from Lehmans balance sheet to create a false impression of Lehmans liquidity, theerby defrauding the investing public “(people who buy Lehman stock) — this is the main complaint.

The lawsuit requires the return of all the fees Ernst received over years ($150MM) from Lehman
plus invetor damages (which is abig amount).

The legal concensus is that the AG will win.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 6:48 pm
a few other items — (that make me proud)

Internal documents show that the only one from Ernst side who objected to the practice was a Bharat Jain, ou r boy, a young auditor on Ernst’s Lehman team. He being junior, it never saw the light of the day.

A rsing Indian star to watch is Preet Bharara, the Manhattan District Attorney (a federal attorney). HE is prosecuting many prominent financial fraud cases involving hedge funds, insider trading, racketeering etc. Early this week he settled a case involving Deutsch bank. He is prosecuting the Madoff case.

Preet is a sardarji. Manhattan district attorney position is one where gutsy attorneys can shine (becasue there are “good” cases to go after, especially now).

These district attorneys are vey powerful, and they can go after politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen etc for federal crimes (I believe many finnacial crimes can be framed as federal crimes affecting interstate commerce, the freeflow of which is a federal responsibility). Elliott Spitzer, who at one time was considered a US President possibility, was the Manhattan District Attorney who went after the original AIG case (in fact the rumor is that he was set up on his prostitution case by these firms)..

Preet Bharara will go places..watch him out..

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 12:02 am
@binoy, many thanks, but Lehman Bros should come to calcutta and seat under the feet of MARWARIS , the original guru of fiddling accounts or COOKING THE BOOK. like I posted a while ago
@Lenin, i dont know what planet you are speaking from. To argue about the merits of indian state enterprises is like bin laden talking about the virtues of non violence.I will give you a fact not an example about indian banks..During the indira gandhi era, there was a policy decision to divert all the resources to the poor farmers, and banks(they were all govt banks at that time) were told to give loan to farmers in preference to industries. now marwaris are not the one to take things lying down , rather they made a virtue out of this socialist project. The tobacco farmers in andhra pradesh were all coerced to give a thumb print(they are all illiterate)on a peace pf paper applying for loans to the bank. Another thumb print was coerced on to a paper transferring this loan to the calcutta marwari businessman as a loan to him from the farmer.. This was done with the collusion between the bank manager, politician at delhi and ofcourse the marwari.This was done on a grand scale involving thirty thousand farmers. so the money we are talking about is in millions or crores depending on Lenin’s true identity.One of my relative who worked for this marwari asFinance Director, is a first hand witness to this charade.
shan

@Binoy Hegde, I know you were very optimistic about China, I posted this in another site, I would be intersested to know what you thing about the news that I posted, here it is
I came across an article in the london Metro 21st Dec.It talks about a town called KANGBASHI in inner Mongolia. It has rows and rows of high rise for accomodating 300000people. The town has plush sporting complex , but NO RESIDENT. The residents of ORDOS a mining town is TOO POOR to afford these flats. In a typical chinese manner , residents are shown in the park using adobe Photoshop.This may be the catch 22 situation.The state is sitting on trillion dollar reserve ,built on SLAVE WAGE LABOUR, but the citizen cannot have wage mobility to give them socialmobilty.Perhaps Reshma would like to visit the both places and give us an update on this.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Yes, China does this coercion. However, no government (however reprehensible they may be) is doing as much as China in “migrating” millions to a higher economic level.

Hence the symbiotic relationship with US. They will not dump US Treasury bonds; for if they do, US will be in real real real bad shape, meaning they will not buy Chinese goods meaning Chinese employment an lifestyle will be affected. China, as of now, is still very export dependent (unlike India which is focused on internal growth and consumption).

China is creating internal consumers, and they will be successful. However, the long term trends are negative for China and quite positive for India . 1) the singlle child policy has created a huge gender imbalance and age imbalance issues. The gender issue is similar to the “Haryana” issue Vinay, Raju, and Ravi mentioned in thsi blog earlier. Their female to male ratio is something like 800/1000, which means they will not have productive youngsters twent years down. It creates two fold problems – one not enough working people, and second and more important , too many old people to be taken cxare of (pensuons etc) by too few. Today, as a result of single cjhild policy, there are four garnd parents dotting on a child now; and the demographics suggest that theer will be three old people to be taken care of by a working man in 20 years down.
2) The banking system is still primitive and state controlled 3) Legal system and lack of transparency, right to property etc

And the unknown thing is how the “freedom” aspirations will play out — a people who have nice cars and houses and good education, will they continue to be OK without freedom of expression, will they rise against the one party controlled state rule and state controls; iwill it be a peaceful movement or violent one…

India may look messy, which it is; but it will have the largset work force (we have to make it productive), the 9% growth if we can maintain will do lots of good, and the institutional framework is relatively solid (corruption etc will go down when more middle class is created). While we blame lot of things on lot of people, we should be proud of our “founding fathers”, for the vision they exhibited, and the goals they aspired for – because we would have ended like Pakistan too; because on that day both were similar people, similar DNA, similar history (Pakistanis claim the Arab ancestry only now)

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 11:24 pm
@Binoy Hegde, apparently this is what Ashish’s spiritual guru The Economist has been saying. it says India’s much derided democracy may well the factor that will propel india ahead of china. it argues because of democracy there is free flow of ideas which will create wealth which will command a premium rather than just mass labour.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Shan-

Actually, it is visible now in terms of “vale add” contributions. China, obviosuly is good in manufacturing -0 they know how to do things on a large scale. But manufacturing always migrates to lower wage countries- as it is happening now to vietnam, Cambodia etc.. In a way India is fortunate that it did not become “low wage” manufacturing country.

So, what is moving to India – high end Investment Banking, Radiology, Reserach, etc. Compared to chinese, Indians are much more natural and freer to express original ideas, question ideas etc..

If properly harnessed, the new India/West relation can be a 1 plus 1 equal to 5 game. GE has its largest number of reserachers in india. Honeywell ditto. Abbott ditto.. And many more. Just imagine how many feeder labs and incubator companies, all paying good bucks will come up.

India is very much a part of any small or big company in US; and it is not a confrontational relation, but coioperative and genuine do good relation.

They see Srimathi Indra Nooyi, (pepsi) Sri Vikram Pandit (Citi)t, Sri Ajay Banga, (Master Card) etc leading huge companies … and start admiring them…

Ravi can say Srimathi Nooyi nd Sri Pandit got there because they are Brahmins.. But Sri Banga is a Sardarji, one who did not attend college in US – he was with Nestle in India/UK; Citibank hired him for his consumer marketing skills in UK, and he has never looked backwards!

Vinay Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Is these Chinese people, human robots or what? They are quite intelligent, work like donkeys but hardly we hear anyone speaking for or against any issue. (Even when they are in western countries). Apparently when David Cameroon visited China last month, he gave a speech in a University and he made a call for China to embrace democracy. In a question answer session after the speech, one university student seems to have accused Mr Cameron of acting similar to other Western leaders; coming to China to deliver a “lecture” on how the country should be run. So they must be very happy over how they are run! After all, it is the civilization that built the Great Wall. (Seems, length of all Chinese defense walls built over the last 2,000 years is bigger than Earth’s circumference ).

Indians could not tolerate Emergency rule for just a couple of years. We love anarchy. 30% of our projects will be done in last week of the dead line. What works for one, will not work for other.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@Vinay, I think you are tad harsh on india, some part of india is par with the best of the world. wipro, infosys , meetdeadline before it is due , maruti’s productivity is at par wirth japanese , infact i have read indian programmer’s make 30%less mistake in writing those codes compared with western counterpart.I understand , in pharma there is some cutting age research going on ,the fruit will take time to ripen. Though it is true what J.K.GALBRAITH said five decades ago hold pretty much true “INDIA IS A FUNCTIONING ANARCHY”

Vinay Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
In fact, I felt I was harsh on Chinese. (When I mentioned about great wall, I implied the slave labour gone into building that wall). I meant, even today these people work with the same oppressed mentality.
As far India, don’t we love a little bit of indiscipline? To me, too much of discipline is very monotonous (robotic). A bit of anarchy gives freedom. A little space to breath. I love it as an Indian.

Ashish Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 11:02 am
@Vinay,
very off topic; but could not resist this..
I once led a project with a truly international cast.. it had a Dane, a German, an Indian settled in Italy but working out of Amsterdam office. a Japanese, couple of Americans, an Australian, a Korean and some locals from HK- where I was posted.
The Dane and the German wanted at least six pages of documents for every freakin’ process. They also wanted a vision and mission statement.. you get the picture..
The Americans wanted some documentation- but, mercifully after the delibrations.
The HK Chinese could not wait to get started and finish it off- my sentiments exactly.
The Korean was happy to follow the lead so long as we left the analytics for him to do.
The Indian settled in Itally- well, let’s say her heart was with us (the anarchists) but, with her head, she thought like the Europeans- it was lucky, because her “interlocution” really got things done.
And, as for the poor Japanese, he never survived my initial call to action -” let’s do items 1, 2 and 3 and then wing it for a while.. see, how far we go and then review it a month down the line”

Vinay Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 6:24 am
@Ashish

We love being ourselves. Hum Hindustani.
Vinay

@Misra,

“Pak inspired or local Islamists, who cares?”

After a bomb blast, it makes no difference to a common man, whether it was from Pakistan or Indian muslims. But it makes a huge difference for a government. Recently it was reported in HT about stone pelters in Kashmir getting paid couple of hundreds a day. Did our government go behind these stone pelters to find out, who was funding them?

In Mumbai shooting case also, there were several unanswered questions.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/28-some-questions-about-the-terror-attacks.htm
For how many of them, we got the clear answers? How competent is our intelligence service?Blaming ISI seems to be an easy option for government; it will not be held for any responsibility(passing it over to Pak). It is easy for Indian government to ask Pak to hand over Dawood. But when it comes to putting his men who are openly roaming in Mumbai behind bars, it goes silent.

But agree with you on catching Kasab live. Otherwise Pak’s role would not have been proved officially. With Antulay and Digvijay, it would have got a totally different dimension (rather colour). But my main dissatisfaction is, nothing much came to light about the local support. I worry more when locals are involved, as they know everything about us.

@Binoy,

We were speaking about thinking process in Saudi. Here is an example
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/indians-abroad/Indian-lady-doctor-cleared-of-murder-of-husband-in-Saudi-Arabia-returns-home-/articleshow/7144891.cms

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 8:29 pm
no doubt this doctor lady killed her husband.which common among high caste hindu ladies.because of saudia case closed so quickly in india it would have taken years like kasab ane afzl guru.bith innocents.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 8:46 pm
This guy calls Kasab and Afzal Guru innocents. This is heights. Rajeev is right.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 10:53 pm
Vinay,
Ravi and Ram Autar hold identical views on Kasab and Afzal. One is literate muslim and other the illiterate one but when it comes to terror both are united.
ram autar

Brahminist rulers of India may be inwardly rejoicing that the rising violent Maoist movement and its enthusiastic Maoist supporters in Nepal are both controlled by their jatwalas. The Nepali Maoists may be headed by a beef-eating, scotch-guzzling, equally corrupt and casteist Brahmin Prachanda. (DV Sept.16, 2008 p.7: “Brahminical joy over Prachanda take over of Nepal” & p. 8: “Brahmin Prachanda as great admirer of killer Parashuram”). But the entire Nepal has turned against India but closer to the enemy camp, China.

Prachanda also hates India: India has been virtually controlling Nepal until very recently. The Indian ambassador to Kathmandu was like a “second king”, so powerful. All this is gone, thanks to the overbearing Brahminical bosses of India. If there is one country today which is so much hated in Nepal — “the only Hindu country in the world” — it is the Hindu India, thanks to the “imperialist Brahmins” who have quarrelled with all their neighbours. India today is hated by Pakistan, China, Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Burma, Lanka and even the tiny Maldives. India is surrounded by a host of enemies all around — thanks to 65 years of Brahminical rule.

A report in the prestigious Financial Times (July 16, 2010), London, by its Delhi correspondent, James Lamont, says even the Brahmin Prachanda hates the Brahminical India. Maybe Prachanda depends so much on China which alone can fulfil his ambition to rule Nepal.

Chinese weapons: As Prachanda’s Maoists are fully supporting the Indian Brahmin-led Maoists, there are unconfirmed reports that Prachanda has helped procure some Chinese weapons to his Indian comrades to fight the Indian rulers. Today, every neighbour is so chummy with China, in contrast with India whose rulers have the knack to quarrel and even fight with every neighbour.

So much so, India today is totally encircled by many enemies around. But China is so much loved and supported by all its neighbours.

The FT quotes “a retired Indian army general, Ashok Mehta, a Brahmin” saying if China controls the Himalayan height of Nepal”, it would have no need of a nuclear arsenal trained on India.

But India’s rulers are not bothered about what happens to India. Because they don’t belong to India, hence they don’t love India. This is the secret.

Why India is hated: India’s Brahmin PM Nehru provoked a war with China and at least 1 lakh Indian soldiers died (1962) but not 1 Chinese soldier was killed. But the rulers were not at all perturbed. They will be worried only if their jatwalas are killed. All those who died in the Himalayan holocaust were our people (SC/ST/BCs Muslims/Sikhs/Christians).

The Brahminical logic is that all these fellows died because they were destined to die. They fought for their motherland and died. As India is not their motherland, they are not expected to die and hence they are not bothered about what happens to India. This is the great Brahminical logic.

Please note: If there is a war tomorrow with the nuclear Pakistan, the rulers will not bothered because those who die will not be their people. It is this hate-mongering policy of the Brahminists that has made India hated by all its neighbours.

Every country around India is so close to China. That means China is virtually lording over the whole of South Asia, says FT. Lanka hates India despite being Budhist country, but loves China.

Lanka is anti-India: Brahmins stationed a notorious Brahmin, Raman Iyer, formerly of the RAW, at Madras to direct its operations in Lanka. It gave every aid, including army to fight the Lankan Tigers and finish them. Once their job is over Lanka turned against India refusing to oblige the Brahminical big bully. Today, China gives full military and financial aid to Lanka. It is building roads, airports and a massive sea-port at Hambantota, on the South of the island.

China, however, does not trust the Brahmin Prachanda but using him to give sleepless nights to the big bully. But this bully is not bothered as long as the Indian Maoists confine themselves to rural areas where their jatwalas don’t stay. But once it attacks cities, the abode of the bullies, the big Bully may order the army to strike.

Meanwhile, the big bully is deeply worried about its shrunken influence even on its neighbours. Its international ally, the Jews, are losing. But China, its no.1 enemy, is rising.

The big bully is suffering from an acute stomach-ache but there is no medicine.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

As I said before, can everyone please stop responding to the repetitive and totally moronic postings by ramautar. Without the oxygen of publicity, he may slither away. Dr Dev Mishra, UK

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
mishra jee apka poora nam kiya.i have lot of dr friends with mishra as surname.

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

Ravi lived in Nai Sadak Area in Kanpur. This area is know for anti-national pakistan supporting terror minded muslims. I knew he will reveal his true identity. This person has been a consistent supporter of Islamic terror against India and west.
Zia seems to be spiritual guru of these terror supporting sleeping agents.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 11:14 pm
, , , ,

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 23rd, 2010 at 11:44 pm

Ravi = Rabiuddin Ansari (lower caste muslim)

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:51 pm
@Rajeev,

Please,. No high caste, low caste things. That is what has made us weak.

Rajeev Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Sorry, Ravi = Rabiuddin Bin Laden

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
@rajeev,now you have opened a can of worms, your words”This area is know for anti-national pakistan supporting terror minded muslims”. This needs an academic research , why they behave like this .That the VERY POOR SLUM DWELLERS do, there is no doubt about this. Anybody who has lived in park circus area near m ostagar lane will testify to this. I had one first hand experience.Once i took my cassette recorder for repair near dharmotolla street , there are rows and rows of electricians sitting on a chair and table in front. he said to his friend about the ongoing Indo-pak Cricket match , “Humara mohallah mey to sub pakistan ko support karta hai”, in park circus they used to hoist pakistan’s flag and fire crackers whenever pakistan won. Is it a perverse way of seeking LOVE/ATTENTION from the ones who have been indifferent and thrown them out of the fold.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien

I get ready to enter into a discussion when I see the total number of new comments, only to find out almost all the new comments are the same recycling and babbling of brahmanism by Mr Avtar.
I requested Mr Autar to be considerate to fellow bloggers and answer to the discussion, and dont talk about what Hindus did to Budhists unless it is relevant to the subject, ie Islamic Education (last blog), or terrorism (this blog)…

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Raju Kurien,
the Ram Autar school of social sciences has some simple lines
1. Hindus mean only brahmins and sometimes banias- rest are Dalits and oppressed
2. Muslims, Christians, Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, Dalits, Adivasis, Kashmiris are all one- all oppressed by Hindus. If they themselves do not notice the oppression, it is the duty of Ram Autar to let them know. Notice the definition of Hindus in 1 above.
3. If any Hindu (again refer to definition in 1 above) makes it good, it is because his “Jaatwalas” helped him- including helping Sachin Tendulkar bat for 20 years and maintain a career average of over 56 runs.
4. The Hindus (as defined in 1 above) have been practicing apartheid for generations- unless you eliminate them thru a massive bloodbath, this country will not progress.

Why so serious? Let Ram Autar have his fun – think of him as a “stream of consciousness” parallel to the blog. Trolls can be droll

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

New Definition of
RSS = (R)ahul (S)onia (S)ardar Manmohan Singh

Rahul was right all along about RSS..RSS is definitely into terror,

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 12:02 am
rss=rumour soreading society

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:42 am
Rat Autar = Islamofascist, genocidal maniac

[Reply]
ram autar

Hindu India is emerging as the world’s largest country of illiterates. But the Hindus are not bothered about it because illiteracy has helped the 15% ruling upper castes (Hindus) to remain as permanent rulers.

The mantra is: Keep the SC/ST/BCs (65%) plus Muslims/Christians/Sikhs (20%) — a total of 85% — poor which will force them to remain illiterate and also peaceful.

NO COURAGE TO PROTEST
Once you are both poor and illiterate you lead an animal existence. Brainwash them with Hindu poison which will dope them into eternal silence. Wonderful.

Otherwise, by this time Hindu India would have exploded — blown into pieces if only the 85% of the sub-humans had some strength to stand and protest, a courage which they will get only if they are literate.

HINDU RULE
This is the secret of the eternal, unquestioned Hindu rule.

Hinduism is a poison pill that can lull you to permanent sleep. Is it not working wonders with 1,300 million slaves enjoying their slavery? May be in the eastern part of India, some stray tribals are protesting. They are dubbed maoists and will be soon gunned down by their own brothers in the equally illiterate police force.

SOUTH INDIA AS EXCEPTION
Barring the four southern states of AP, Karnataka, TN and Kerala and to some extent Maharashtra, the rest of India is packed with hungry, illiterate Bahujans. It is in this part of India, called the “cow belt” (also called BIMARU states) that Hindu terrorist party is having its rule. The most stinking Hindu holy places are in BIMARU states.

How the Hindus are ruling India?

WORLD’S LARGEST ILLITERATE COUNTRY
The secret is already revealed above.

There are hardly any schools in rural areas. The rural India is totally devastated.

Even if there is a school, it has no teacher. If it has a teacher, it has no building.

The teacher is so ill-paid, he or she has no desire to teach. Because the teacher is so ill-paid. That is how India has become the world’s largest country of illiterates. But the Hindu rulers are least worried. Because there is not even a protest. Once upon a time, teaching profession commanded the highest respect. Guru Devo Bhava.

Brahminists realised the danger and quickly killed the very teaching profession. Today the teachers command no respect from their own students.

EDUCATION AS A LUXURY
Many schools go without teachers because he or she gets no place to stay. If he is a Dalit or “low caste” nobody will give even a room. The basic salary of a govt. primary teacher in Karnataka is Rs. 6,235 which is less than the pay of a bank peon. Schooltext books and midday-meals are there only on paper.

As you go North there is neither schools nor teachers. If both are present there will be no students because the parents are so poor that they can ill-afford to send their children to schools as they are needed at home to work.

When filling the stomach of so many in the house is the problem, education is a luxury in Hindu India.

See, how beautifully and effectively Hindus have kept India poor, illiterate and also peaceful

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 12:28 am
Mr Autar:

I do not want to be rude and crude about this. Based on where teh world is today, world will be a better place if by some magic wand world get rid of all Muslims!

Think about that before you vomit tany more of these garbage.

Will the world miss anys cientific advancements/ Will they miss any great art and architecture (current – I do give credit to the ancient art and architrecture)/Will the world miss any great writers? Any great philosphers?

So, focus on building these. Just stop the otehr nonsense

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
(current – I do give credit to the ancient art and architrecture)/Will the world miss any great writers? Any great philosphers?

mr singh ,i u dont know about muslim world ,then this iis not my fault.prince charles has apealed to christian churc`h of europe to accept the fact that,muslim civilization is the european civilization.
i advise u read about muslim philosphers of spain ,egypt and india.
what u read is anti-muslim propaganda.

i dont about world indian will miss muslims.20-30 millions mployees of muslim countries feed half india.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
current – I do give credit to the ancient art and architrecture)/Will the world miss any great writers? Any great philosphers?

mr singh ,if u dont know about muslim world ,then this iis not my fault.prince charles has apealed to christian churc`h of europe to accept the fact that,muslim civilization is the base of the european civilization.
i advise u to read about muslim philosphers of spain ,egypt and india.
what u read is anti-muslim propaganda.500 years before oxford was establishe muslims had best universities from spain to cairo

i dont know about the world but indian working class will miss muslim world..20-30 millions indians employed in muslim countries feed half india live in these countries with full security and respect.
ram autar

mr ravi ,

Brahminists launch Hindu terrorism to establish Ram Rajya with zionist support
A Brahmin journalist in an article in the Deccan Herald, Bangalore (Nov.23, 2009), expressed serious “Hindu fears” that they have “begun to lose faith in the ability of the Indian state to secure rule of law”. He was criticising the Maharashtra police for arresting notorious Brahminical terrorists for a series of killings of Muslims.

The arrest was made by the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant Karkare, also a Maharashtrian Brahmin, since killed in the famous Bombay terrorist attack of Nov. 26, 2008 (read the book, Who Killed Karkare? by S.M. Mushrif, Retd. IG of police, Maharashtra, copies of the book can be had from Dalit Voice office, Rs. 300).

Chitpavan leadership: Both the Maharashtra Govt. and the Union Govt. have been so far mum on the large-scale “Hindu terrorism” because they know those involved in all such heinous crimes that killed hundreds of Muslims (list given below) were mostly Maharashtrian Brahmins, that too the Chitpavan Brahmins. It was a Chitpavan Brahmin Nathuram Godse who killed the “father of the Hindu nation”, M.K. Gandhi.

When we inquired with the Maharashtra political leadership, they said the govt. was afraid of the Brahminical backlash — with the media totally in their hands.

What? The mighty govt. itself afraid of the mere 2% Brahminical people when Muslims, the victims of their terrorism, were 15%?

The clout of this class of people can be gauged from the utter helpless of even the Govt. of India though it was fully convinced of the crimes of such Brahmins. Has the govt. got the courage to punish Kalmadi, the notorious thug heading the Commonwealth Games, looting hundreds of crores of rupees?

Abhinav Bharat: Even the Prime Minister defended the fraudster because Kalmadi belonged to Pune, the stronghold of the Chitpavan Brahmins. Who can touch the founders of the Hindu terrorist, RSS, and now the super-RSS called Abhinav Bharat?

It was only the upright police officer, Karkare, who arrested the whole lot of the Brahmin terrorist troupe and put them in the jail. And to get Karkare killed the Bombay Terrorist attack of (2008) was staged. This is the thesis of the upright police officer, S.M. Mushrif, in his book, Who Killed Karkare? (2010, Rs. 300, pp.330, copies available with Dalit Voice) But this book was totally blacked out by the media which often screams about “freedom of the press”.

It took several years for the Govt. of India to admit the existence of Brahminical terrorism — though its security arms go out of the way to reel out all sorts of heinous story of crimes against Muslims.

Home Minister’s cover-up: Finally the Tamil Chettiar, Home Minister Chidambaram (Aug.25, 2010) vaguely hinted about the existence of “saffron terror”. He dare not say it is “Hindu terrorism” — not to speak of Brahminist terrorism.

Why Chidambaram was window dressing the Brahminical terrorism? The fact is the Govt. of India itself is under the mercy of this micro-minority Bhoodevatas who are above the govt. India’s political leadership, bureaucrats, security set-up, media and all those who matter in India, stylishly called “opinion-makers”, are all Brahminical — representing less than 15% of the upper caste rulers.

This is the problem — and the problem of India. To cover up these facts, the rulers are shouting and screaming about “Islamic terrorism” to divert public opinion with the help of their Brahminical media.

DV has said this many, many times but who cares for our little voice — soon facing extinction leaving the road free for the free-booters.

The Times of India (Aug.26, 2010), India’s principal Brahminical daily, reported all the anti-Muslim terrorist cases: Mecca Masjid (Hyderabad, May 18, 2007), Ajmer, (Oct.1, 2007), Malegaon (Maharashtra-Sept.18, 2006); Madasa (Gujarat and the one in Goa.

Super RSS named: All these cases are with the police, but completely controlled by the Intelligence Bureau. In all these cases the police have named the culprit, the Brahminical super RSS, Abhinav Bharat.

There are many more cases but the Brahminist power controlling the police and the Govt. — nay the country itself — are trying to suppress everything. The Times earlier (June 23, 2010) listed the following 11 cases of Hindu terrorism and also said all these are linked to Abhinav Bharat.

Oct.16, 2009: A bomb went of in Margao, Goa, while it was being transported to target site killing two persons carrying the bomb. NIA charge-sheeted 11 people, members of the Hindu right wing group, Sanatan Sanstha.

April 4, 2009: A bomb planted in a Beed mosque went off. Ashok Lande (21), Mayur Lande (20) and Tulsidas (Lande 17), arrested for making and planting bomb.

Sept.29, 2008: RDX bomb blast in Malegaon. Six killed, 101 injured. Eleven members of Abhinav Bharat and Vande Mataram Jan Kalyan Samiti arrested.

Aug.24, 2008: Two Bajrang Dal members, Rajiv alias Piyush Mishra and Bhupinder Singh, killed inside a hostel room while making a bomb in Kanpur, UP.

March 2008: A bomb went off at a Panvel cinema. Six persons, two of then Sanatan Sanstha members, arrested.

June 4, 2008: Six persons, two of them Sanatan sanstha members, arrested for planting a bomb at Thane’s Gadkari Rangayatan.

Oct.11, 2007: Blast at Ajmer shrine. Three killed.

May 18, 2007: Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad. Nine killed, more than 58 injured. Two RSS members arrested.

2006: Dr. Hemant Chalke and Mangesh Nikam involved in Ratnagiri blast.

Aug.2004: Two Bajrang Dal members threw a bomb at Jalna’s Qadriya mosque during Friday prayers. Four Bajrang Dal members arrested.

Aug.27, 2004: Bomb blast at Porna’s Madrassa Meraj-ul-Uloom. Four Bajrang Dal members were arrested.

It is very difficult to get at the truth in India — that too when Brahminists are the perpetrators of the crime.

Lt. Col. Purohit as chief villain: Who are the top criminals involved in the series of killings of Muslims? The Times (Jan.23, 2009) gave their names and their detailed descriptions and background. Topping the list is the arch villain, the Pune Chitpavan Brahmin, Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit (37), who is a serving army officer — still not dismissed despite the tons of crimes he committed.

We are reproducing the above Times report because all other Brahminical “national” toilet papers suppressed all the facts as their favourite jatwalas are involved.

No courage to prosecute culprits: A dozen of the Brahminist “terrorists” are arrested. Earlier, they were in Bombay’s Arthur Rd. Jail but later transferred to Nasik. Startling facts of their crimes have been revealed but the govt. has no courage to punish them — though several years have passed.

Look at the strength and influence of this micro-minority 2% Brahminical people.

Reports say Col. Purohit secured RDX explosives from the Army itself. That means he has a large number of jatwala sympathisers at the top level in the Army. RDX is available only with the military. He travelled to the world’s sole arch- racist state of Israel which gladly gave him lavish response because he represented the “Jews of India”. Funds, arms and ammunitions were given in plenty.

Jews & “Jews of India”: How accurate is the DV theory that the Jews and the “Jews of India” are brothers. Can we get a better proof than this axis of two killer gangs? In the Malegaon case, the police disclosed the involvement of Himani Savarkar, niece of the notorious Chitpavan Brahmin, Nathuram Godse, who killed Gandhi, and daughter-in-law of Narayan Savarkar, the brother of the so-called Veer Savarkar. The “Brahminical terrorism” is so all-powerful that the police have no courage to disclose anything about Himani.

Who killed Karkare?: The entire credit for catching all these criminals parading as Hindu heroes, goes to Hemant Karkare, ATS chief. That is why he was mysteriously shot dead in the Bombay terrorist attack. Again everything was hushed up. Why? Mushrif has answered the question.

RSS surrender to AB: Reports said the widow of Karkare was offered Rs. 1 crore by the Brahminical criminals who plotted the Karkare murder so that she would keep her mouth shut. The Abhinav Bharat (AB) has become more powerful than the hydra-headed RSS serpent. It has now branches all over India. There were reports that it would finish off the RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat, also a Chitpavan Brahmin, if he were to go against the AB dictates. The RSS has simply surrendered to AB. The famous Ram Sene headed by Pramod Mutalik, which created havoc in Karnataka and made the ruling Brahmana Jati Party (BJP) so unpopular even among the upper castes, is part of the AB. RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) has been simply silenced and dwarfed.

Brahmins losing faith in Indian state: Coming back to the subject of Deccan Herald article that “Hindus are losing faith in the Indian state”, we are at a loss to understand how the very ruling class lording over India and its 1,300 million population for thousands of years is “losing faith in the Indian state”. Every Prime Minister, whoever he is or whichever party he belongs, is a puppet in their hands. They not only run the govt., control its finances but govern the country’s very value system.

Not one person in India, not even its PM, has the courage to criticise this ruling class. And yet the rulers are “losing faith in the Indian state”. What is the meaning of this?

Wanted: rule of Manu: We met some hard-core Brahmins and sought their reaction to the DH article. They frankly confessed that they would not be happy until they established the Brahminical dictatorship over the Aryavarta as envisaged in the Manu Dharma Sastra.

What they mean is they want the existing Indian constitution be scrapped, and replaced by the constitution propounded by their jatwala Manu. (photocopies of Manu’s law available with DV, RS. 450).

They want the existing legislature, judiciary and even the executive scrapped and all “religious minorities” made to live at their mercy. They want India to go back to the Vedic Age under the dictatorship of the Bhoodevatas. Such an ideal setup would pave the way to the Ram Rajya in which their favourite god Ram threw his loving wife, Sita, to the forest and allowed her to die. This is Ram Rajya.

Full support from Israel: They said they hated the SC/ST reservations, and the OBCs creating all the nuisance, the courts constantly coming in the way of Hindu temples amassing all the wealth. Their hatred is mainly directed against the Muslims and Christians who are already living under the Brahminical mercy. Even this “little freedom” given only on paper must be scrapped.

Full hope in Israel: We asked them how they would establish the Ram Rajya when their own favourite Brahmana Jati Party (BJP) was defeated. They said the Congress proved to be a better Brahminical party.

But their main hope today was in the zionist state of Israel — the world’s only exclusive racist state. Israel has offered them all-out support to establish their dream state of Ram Rajya in India. But the point is Israel has not succeeded in ousting the Muslim Palestinians from their dream state. Israel is already hated by a major portion of the world. With the defeat of US in Iraq and Afghanistan, the rise of China as a super power and Iran becoming a nuclear power, where is the chance for Israel to rise?

Waiting for World War-III: The Brahminists reply is all this will be achieved once the World War-III begins paving the way for the establishment of Zionist state in Israel and the “Jews of India” establishing their racist Ram Rajya. Wonderful.

Look, where it is all leading to. Hate creating more hate and devouring its own creators: the Jews and the “Jews of India”. Those days are nearing.

[Reply]
Ashish

Surfing the net, this priceless paragraph caught my attention. This is the most succinct riposte to the endless Hindu-terror bull sh*t spewed by our sickular friends on this blog
As I was reading Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singh’s statements and letting their outrageous audacity sink in, I kept wondering to myself—would anyone in the US political mainstream ever attend an event of 9/11 conspiracy theorists? Would any liberal Democrat politician with Presidential ambitons, say that since Tim McVeigh and the man who drove his plane into the IRS building were Christians, Christian terror was a bigger threat to the security of the US than Islamic terror? Would anyone even dare trivializing 9/11 without risk of political suicide? No they wouldn’t.

In India though they can. Which is sad. Very sad.
For reading the full article go here: http://greatbong.net/2010/12/22/king-kongress/

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Ashish

Forget about presidential ambitions. Nobody contesting for a house, senate, or governor slot will attend a meeting organized by “9/11 conspiracy” theorists.

In fact the pendulum is swinging righter and righter (which is not good either) based on the whole fear factor. Oklahoma just passed an amend ment to the state constitution that “sharia will never be the state’s law” (as if there was threat); there was massive opposition to building a mosque near WTC (although the mosque/center champion is a sufi Imam), and the incoming chair of homeland security,, Peter King, is planning a hearing on the “patriotism of American Muslims” and “should US expect homegrown Muslim terror like UK is experiencing”.

In US, if a democrat or republican leader attended a conference like that, they will be distanced; they will be forced to state that it is their personal opinion, not party’s. More importantly, that ill be the end of his political career.

As you said, only in India!

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
@Binoy Hegde,
Yes, US tends to overdo things; but, hey, what’s happening here in India is madness.
A leading politician, the so called tutor/ mentor of the media-annointed next PM of India can release a book called 9/11 – RSS ki Saazish and then make this kind of crappy comments.. and, is then glorified by sickuralists for his creativity.
Political discourse has sunk to such a level.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Fortunately the correctly named blogger got it totally wrong. In the US people have said the FACT – the FACT that US terrorism is far more vicious than any islamic terrorism and in fact its US terrorism which is the main cause for the fawning of Islamic terrorism. One of the greatest minds on the planet Noam Chomsky has said it, and so has several leading thinkers of the age. Now its a different matter that Mr “Demented mind” has only read articles of idiots as himself.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Noam Choskey! Give me a break!

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
@Raju Kurien,
knowing Bobby, a break from Noam Chomsky will be provided through a reference to Arundhati Roy Your choice

Ashish Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
@Bobby,
the point that Arnab Ray makes in RTDM is far removed from the direction you take. He simply says, such an action/ speech (as by Digvijay or Rahul) by a politician who aspired to an elected office in the United States of America would have been unthinkable. It would have been political suicide/ oblivion.
You can debate whether that makes US worse than India in any which way; and sure we can join that. But, the point made by “Mr Demented Mind” stands till you show us an example of a mainstream politician in US with aspirations matching Digvijay Singh or Rahul Gandhi’s in India who would dare indulge cospiracy theorists on 9/11 as these dimwits have done about the 26/11 attackers of Mumbai.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:02 am
@Ashish,

I liked the line,
“Rahul Gandhi is lashing out, under the guidance of the pathogenically “liberal” Digvijay Arundhati Singh… (soft on Naxal terror).”
It reminded me of “Aurangzeb ul Haq” by Nadim Pracha.

Bobby Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:23 am
@ Ashish,

I can give you two right away: Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. Wish we had such leaders.

Ashish Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 1:26 am
@Bobby,
is Ron Paul the same guy with claims to have started the Tea Party? You can’t be serious! I am afraid I do not know much more. Pray, what whacko thing did he say?
And Dennis Kucinich? Well, technically you are right; as he and Rahul Gandhi have similar stature as politicians- one is a Congressman, the other is an MP. One has tried and failed to win Democratic nomination for Presidentship twice; the other is waiting …
Again, the point is not the type of politicians you wish the Americans have, it is what the Americans wish for that counts.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 2:05 am
Neither Ron Paul nor Kucinich is a national leader; will never win a statewide office, nor Presidency.

In fairness to them, they have said the 9/11 was done by Muslim extremists. They have never attended any crazy conspiracy theory meetings. They are very much concerned about domestic as well as Jehadi terrorism; however, they are not for foreign wars.

They will lose their congressional seats if they attended a “pro Saudi terroruist” meeting.

Of the two, Ron Paul has a national following (but nowhere near the numbers needed to win national elections). He is a libertarian, who does not want US to get entangled in foreign countries, who wants a limited federal government, who wants to get rid of Federal reserve , who wants to get rid of socials ecurity, education department, and all oker federal departments except defence and fstate……. Ypou get the picture

Ashish Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
@Binoy Hegde,
thanks for the pen-portrait of Ron Paul (with a name like that, he could be a Bong!! You sure he is not actually called Ronojoy Pal?)
“Ron Paul … is a libertarian, who does not want US to get entangled in foreign countries, who wants a limited federal government, who wants to get rid of Federal reserve , who wants to get rid of socials ecurity, education department, and all oker federal departments except defence and fstate…….”

@Bobby,
You think the Americans want to vote in a Prez who wants to get rid of social security? And, basically privatize everything? And, less importantly, how does that square with you?

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 2:05 am
@Bobby , I have to concede US foreign policy is as fun as a dog’s ****. But US has been downright stupid. They did so many good thing in this world yet they are remembered as the fall guy. Take Suez crisis, when Nasser nationalised Suez canal, UK and FROGS, colluded along with kikes, and invaded Egypt. WHO RESCUED EGYPT, the great satan .
next is Vietnam. After ww2 ended, FROGS who were themselves just freed from the german occupation WANTED ITS COLONY CALLED VIETNAM BACK. Again who FREED VIETNAM FROM COLONISATION, this caused massive anti americanism in france which did not join NATO.
Same with First Gulf war , all the khajur kingdoms were in mad rush to be PAL WITH AMERICA.
The only part of the world where america has consistently acted like a s o n o f a b i t c h is SOUTH AMERICA. Then watch Oliver Stone’s SALVADOR and more recently SOUTH OF BORDER , for that matter watch his latest “W”. In democracy , things change through elections.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE RIGHTFUL OCCUPATION OF TIBET.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:51 am
@ Shan,

your knowledge of history is exactly what i would expect from you, given the glimpses of rationality you have shown us in previous posts.

Another piece of advice for you: If you want to get a genuine account of history dont watch Hollywood movies, look for documentaries of world’s leading journalists. I could suggest you one- John Pilger. Search his name.

@ Binoy @ Ashish,

Neither Ron Paul nor Kucinich support conspiracy theories. However they both acknowledge that the illegal wars that the US funds and has been carrying out in the middle east and other countries leads to Islamic terrorism. As Ron Paul says- its “blow back”. This is not a conspiracy theory- Its a rational understanding of the situation.

Nor did Rahul Gandhi make any conspiracy theories when he says that Majority fundamentalism, is more dangerous than minority fundamentalism. As I said before, in a society which has not been so brain washed by “nationalism”, this would have so obvious, that even a five year old kid would understand it.

Bobby Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Listen to this clip: from : Rn Paul speaks at 3:41 minutes after the clip starts

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOkVTJWnI4″

Bobby Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Ron Paul or Kucinich as president of the United States is the greatest gift the US citizens could give to rest of the world, who are being bombed and invaded by the US war machine.

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
@Bobby, Thanks for your gratitous advice, now for annotation, the first one about suez crisis is from the book THE ARABS , by Eugene Rogan , Prof of arabic ,University of Oxford.
Next vietnam ,this is gleamed from GUNNAR MYRDAL’S nobelprize winning work ASIANDRAMA , an enquiry into the poverty of nations. to releive you of your profound ignorance , Myrdal long dead was swedish ,received nobel prize sometime in 70’s , his wife was swedish ambassador in delhi , they were pal of nehru. Here is a quote from his book vol2 (the entire work runs in three volumes)
which i was trying to propagate in my earlier postings.page 1347, “with co-operative farming arrangements it might be possible to consolidate small and fragmented holdings into operational units to which rational principles of soil management and land use could be more easily applied”
Next is first gulf war , i dont need to give any reference , I AM LIVING WITNESS TO THE EVENTS THAT UNFOLDED.
And last JOHN PILGER. You only know that name by virtue of INTERNET. i have seen and heard and read him by virtue of living in his MOTHER COUNTRY. he is a AUSSIE, he first made his name EXPOSING THE GENOCIDE BY YOUR IDEOLOGICAL GURU , POL POT IN CAMBODIA.Then he did several documentary on Nicaragua etc.
To deride OLIVER STONE as run of the mill hollywood , exposes the LIMITS OF YOUR REACH IN CINEMA, YOU ARE BETTER OFF WITH KARAN JOHAR . Incidentally those films are highly critical of US policy , and his vietnam trilogy , PLATOON ,BORN ON THE 4TH OF JULYAND HEAVEN AND EARTH, are MASTERPIECES and SCATHING about US policy.
By the way are you by a card carrying member of the party of d ic k h e a d s called CPM

ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
In the recent raids in connection with the chopping of the professor’s hand, homes and offices of a doctor, dentist, lawyer, professor, and twentty plus others were raided. The documents seized , in the words of the Chief Minister Achuthanandan, a (good) CPI (M) leader,a nd no Brahmin (he is Ezhava, a bckward caste) indicated “they have a documented plan to make Kerala a Muslim majority state, destroy the institutions and religious harmony, obtaining training and financial support from foreign countries”

THIS IS ABSOLUTE LIE AND FRAUD .WHY THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHED.WHY NOBODY IS ARRESTED.KERALA HAS SEA COAST.MANY FOREIGN COUNTRIES ARE INTERESTED TO MAKE THIS ANOTHER SOMALIA.
WHICH EXTREMIST ACTIVITIES MUSLIMS ARE INVOLVED.ZOINIST AND HINDU ZOINIST KEEP MUSLIMS IN NEWS TO CREATE BAD PERCEPTION THEM.

S Singh Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Why are these foreign countries interested only in Kerala coast (and making it Somalia).. Why not the remainder of the Aarabian sea coast through Konkan to Mumbai?

Could it be these foreign governments like the large number of Muslims in Kerala? Or may be they like the communists? Or they want to pick on a high literacy state?

ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
no foriegn country is interested in kerala.hindutva is selling this state to american zoinist.that is why all type of lies is being propagated by their agents .

the remainder of the Aarabian sea coast through Konkan to Mumbai

kerala is at more strategic location.they financed ltte for the same reason.muslims are son of soil.nobody like them.zoinists have history of destruction for their benefit. like brhmns.now they are ally of indian jews.after tasting defeat in iraq and afghanistan ,they are in search of new areas.may be they want to encircle china.

muslims of kerala will fight the invaders ,being son of soil.from last 2 years news was coming that high caste christians and brhmnst have joined hands for something.

Ashish Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@Bobby,
“Neither Ron Paul nor Kucinich support conspiracy theories”- exactly, just the point.
Let Mr Paul or Mr Kucinich attend a 9/11 conspirarcy theory meeting, release a book alongside which says, “9/11 – The Jews did it!” or “9/11- it was actually an FBI temwork with KKK” or similar such loony thing…
But, they will be pretty stupid to do that. But, Digvijay?? Rahul?? Who knows, they might even be proved pretty smart later, though no doubts remain of their cynicism.

Ashish Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
@Bobby,
I spent a good 30 minutes on Youtube listening to Ron Paul’s presidential debates- especially those on Fox News- his views on war found a resonance.
Especially the sentence which ran like- we borrow 10B$ from China to give it to Musharraf who is a dictator who overthrew an elected government and … so we could promote democracy and wage war in Iraq…. what’s going on here??
Uproarious!
But, I doubt this very decent man would say something like “9/11 was just retribution” or “it was an FBI conspirarcy”..

Bobby Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
@ Ashish,

Well he says that in the video i posted, and also in this one- fox news debate.

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQrwKr_b4Lg”

But this is not a conspiracy theory- The CIA itself has a analysis, where they say that 9/11 was “blowback”. This is a rational analysis of the resons of why it happened.

Watch these two:

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA&feature=channel”
these are statements of the “former chief of the CIA (Bin laden unit)” and Ron Paul.

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcQQ05XtAQ4&feature=related”

In the same way, when Mr Rahul Gandhi says that hindutva fundamentalism is probably more worrisome than Islamic terrorism, precisely because majority communalism is more dangerous than minority communalism, thats not a conspiracy theory- its a rational analysis of the problems India faces.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Many in US (including politicians) have said 9/11 is a reaction to US Policy; however, all condemned the act and wanted to go after the terrorists with full force of the US. And policies continue unchanged because it just would not get enough votes.

But a Ron Paul will never attend/endorse a book publishing ceremony where the book being published is “9/11 was done by US Govt (as some conspiracy theorists bel;ieve)” or “9/11 was done by radical progressives (the equivalent to RSS as the political opposition to Republican Party). And then make a statement that American progressives are more dangerous than Islamic Jehadists — This si what Diggy and Rahul have done.

A Ron Paul comparison would have been Ok if Rahul/Diggy had said ” 11/26 is the result of our foreign policy with Pakistan. Our stand on Kashmir is making Pakistani army and ISI to deploy terrorists to destroy our major cities and kill and maim as many they can” and not this majority/minority BS..

Anyway, Congress will lose next elections; they are causing the majority to embrace BJP as a better alternative. Next eelction will be really interesting – with all the Muslim appeasement they may try, it will be difficult to compensate the loss in AP, offseting Mamta splitting off, and offsetting the Nitish wave in Bihar and possibly UP.

shan Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
Well guys particularly Ashish and Bobby , my fellow kulin bengalees , rather than flapping around chasing some bit part politicians in you tube or what not , why not do some serious reading. for a starter take my word , the book THE ARABS by Eugene rogan is an outstanding book.
rather than the CPM ,cholbey na cholbey na , larai larai larai chai ,larai kprey bachtey chai, to which one guy said why can we not just live without any larai(fight) .
Lets start by finding out how the jewish start was CONCEIVED. This was as a result of BALFOUR DECLARATION. This declaration made during the INTER WAR PERIOD , was due to the influence of a brilliant jewish scientist who helped in the synthesis of some chemicals needed for the artillery. NOW WHERE DOES US COME IN , lord balfour ain’t yank.
next is suez crisis , had it not for Eisenhower WHO THREATENED TO REMOVE SUPPORT FOR STERLING , Egypt would have been a vassal state and suez under control of the french and british. Now the greatest villian is israel , it did simply clear village after village of palestenians. So the bobby’s soul mates should have taken 9/11 to Tel Aviv rather than Newyork.
Regarding Military support , syria , egypt all had fully armed itself with Russian arms and attacked israel , Yom Kippur war , only that F16, shot down Migs like birds.
That USA supports Israel much to its detriment , there is no doubt about it. Before Mr sen asks us to visit some site , let it be known an academic work has been done on this by professors from
chicago , the name of the book is THE JEWISH LOBBY. Please remember EGYPT RECEIVES MASSIVE AID TO THE TUNE OF FIVE BILLION DOLLARS PER ANNUM FROM USA.
Also when it suited to establish Islamic state in afganistan USA is god sent.
Next is Saudi arabia , HAD IT NOT BEEN USA TECHNOLOGY ,THE OIL WOULD NOT MADE IT TO THE PORT. during that period USA was the leader in exploration , with aramco.
So when the crown prince says that we have taken couple of billions for yourself SO WHAT , we have poured trillions into the country,that is why pre oil child mortality was fifty per hundreed ,dropped to five per thousand like the western world.
Regarding the saudi , JEWISH LOBBY PREVENTED ANY ARM SALE FROM USA TO SAUDI,who benefitted from this , SHAN DID, because Maggie Thatcher had no qualms ,sold 20 billion worth of arms Al yamaha deal.
Same with Iraq, it was a vile act , many americans have called Bush a hitler , I think the presidential contender (IT magnate, i cannot recall his name) during the clinton bush election, called Bush Jnr a hitler.
but ashish I suggest you watch THE HURT LOCKER , (bobby has no clue about films), it is top ten films of all time (and beleive me by virtue of living in uk ,I have seen a lot of films).
The vileness of the sunni jihadist is beyond description ,and it is no longer a nationalist struggle , IT IS NOW ARABS(SUNNI) WANT TO RECLAIM THE THRONE FROM WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DISLODGED BY THE ARITHMETIC OF ELECTION, AS SHIAS ARE MAJORITY.
My feeling is what has happened has happened ,now if there were no jihadi activity , AMERICA WILL TRANSFORM IRAQ IN THE MOULD OF THEIR CIVILIZATION , which is in the BRITISH IMPERIAL MODEL and wont be for free.But that is what they need to CATCH UP with the west.
Remember what RAMMOHAN ROY said to the visiting French traveller , “British rule is needed to transform India”, the fruits of which are we all ,otherwise we would have been busy burning satis, and using jari bootis ,bobby wont be studying physics ,would be treating patients with Tulsi patta.

Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 10:49 am
“do some serious reading. for a starter take my word…”

A very (il)logical sentence indeed. The reason why I cant take your word on anything, is precisely because I do some serious reading.

“to which one guy said why can we not just live without any larai(fight)”

Apart from the fact that this very irrational guy has most definitely got to be your friend, this also shows which class of society he comes from.

I wont comment on the nonsense you have written passing off as history- because I have done so several times on this blog. But I would like to again highlight you innate rationality which is again on full display:

“AMERICA WILL TRANSFORM IRAQ IN THE MOULD OF THEIR CIVILIZATION , which is in the BRITISH IMPERIAL MODEL and wont be for free.But that is what they need to CATCH UP with the west.”

You know there is only thing I can call you after this racist statement. A “racist nutcase”

Would you have agreed on an advanced alien race to occupy, torture and bomb us- you and your children included, so that we can be moulded into their civilization- the bombs, torture, deaths etc being a “small price” to pay for that- because as you these things dont come for “free”.

Why dont you just take a break, and shut up instead of parroting utter nonsense. Think about what you are saying before saying it.
Ashish

Sadanand Dhume in the WSJ “What Terrorises India?”
http://on.wsj.com/hj0e7s
Some excerpts:
Simply put, the notion that the radical Hindu threat to India is comparable to that posed by radical Islam is ludicrous. First there’s the question of scale. Alleged Hindu terrorists—not one of whom has been convicted—are accused of bomb blasts in 2007 and 2008 in Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan and Maharashtra that killed 17 people. According to the South Asia Terrorism Portal, the toll in India from about two dozen radical Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11 stands at more than 950 dead and many hundreds more injured.
and further, this is worth reading
Mr. Gandhi deserves to be criticized not merely because he’s wrong, but because his apparent naiveté hurts India. His comment to Mr. Roemer directly undercut one of New Delhi’s main foreign policy objectives—to get the international community to take the threat from Pakistan-based terrorist groups more seriously. More broadly, Mr. Gandhi and his party encourage precisely the kind of conspiratorial mindset and culture of grievance among a section of Indian Muslims that they ought to be working to end.

Finally, they raise the uncomfortable prospect of India being led by a man out of touch with the dominant ethos of the country he seeks to lead, one that may be flawed but remains essentially liberal, humane and resistant to any kind of radicalism. In the long run, it’s this ignorance, not a handful of Hindu zealots, that poses the greater threat to India.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
mr ashish what rahul and digvijay are saying ,should have been told by nehru and indira.to please britishers rss and their chitpavan supporters orchestrated first communal riot in 1890 in maharashtra.
since blood after after blood bath.
pakistani terrorist are the product of geo-political game of world power.while hindu terrorist are the product of lies (through history)and thjeir hate propaganda.they have spoiled the mind of society.pak terrorist will finish when america leave the are and enough jobs are ceated.but hindu terrorism will remain.
aid for gujrat earth quake victims came from abroad,but aid was not given to muslims though they were dying.THIS IS CALLED BRHMNSM ,FASCISM AND TERRORISM.

[Reply]
Gopi Thomas Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Sadanand’s analysis is succint.

I have been talking about Kerala becoming next Kashmir. People like Digvijay do not have a clue about what is happening in Kerala. May be the stupid guy does not care if Kerala becomes a Kashmir; or it may be an electoral ploy of congress to win Muslim votes where it matters – UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam.

If the leaders of Congress party have any political sense, they should fire Diggy from his party post and congress party. he has made congress party weaker by attending the book publication meeting and in making those statements (he and Congress may think otherwise). This coupled with g2/Adarsh and all the other jewels will makke sure Bihar election results will be replicated in most of the states. Add to that the Jagan split in Andhra (Congress is now accusing him for making all this money at such a tender age— hahaha)

[Reply]
Shoeb K Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Mr Thomas-

Kerala situation, while can get potentially out of control (and may well become out of control) was initially “sponsored” by the leading political parties of Kerala – Marxists and Congress.

Marxists created the extremist Muslim parties to marginalize their enemy (and Congress partner) Muslim League. Now these extre wings are out of control; they are sending jehadists to Kashmir, they are conducting trials under “taliban” courts, they are killing progressive Muslim maulavis.

Congress leaders, including Mr Antony, visited Madani in Coimbatore jail, because they wanted to outdo Marxists. Congress was afraid of losing Muslim League votes if they did not show their “respects” to a traitor.

You are right that Kerala quite probably will be the Kashmir of tomorrow. I bet that the majority of Muslims in kerala will not be upset if tough actions are taken against the perpetrators. Muslim league was quite critical of extremists when they chopped off the hands of the Christian professor. However, instead of quick prosecution, both the central government and the state government are arguing about turf, whether it is police or NIA..

It is time we citizens hold government and political parties and political leaders culpable as much as the Jehadists. Through their inaction and late action, they are giving a n indirect green signal to jehadists. And visiting Madani in Coimbatore jail does not help either.

It simply is amazing how nobody visits Madani these days in the Banaglore jail. It just shows how naive our politicians are. (matches Ashish blog about particpating in 9/11 conspirators meeting) .

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
kerala will not remain calm as high caste hindus have decided to destablize this state.cpim is party of high caste.they loosing their grip on power.they have already planned series of communal riots.and joined hand with high caste christians.kerala muslim league is nationalist muslim party.
they are active in muslim areas only.

ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
GOPI IN 1947 KSHMIRI DECIDED TO JION INDIA.FROM THOUSAND OF YEARS ALL RACES AND RELIGIONS WERE LIVING IN HARMONY.TENSION STARTED WHEN BALRAJ MADHOK &SHAYAMA PRASAD MUKERJEE BOTH BOTH VIOLENT BRHMNCL PIOSNOUS SNAKES GONE THERE AND ORCHESTRATED FIRST COMMUNAL RIOT OF KASHMIR HISTORY IN SRINAGAR.THEY SEPRATED THE PEOPLE THROUGH HATE SPEWING AND CONTINOUS VIOLENCE.even now whenever kashmir become calm their agent kill boys and restart the cycle of violence.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 3:37 am
but nehru imprisoned s p mukherjee and did he not die in jail.you are a NUTCASE

shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
@gopi and shoeb, Rahul gandhi is a THICKO. he has no clue about western civilization ,to him it means ford car and the rest. Having lived in England , by virtue of my trade I am particularly fortunate to be privy to the mind of the anglosaxon people.Few things are their core beleif , like their colour of skin.THAT IS THEIR LOVE FOR THEIR COUNTRY.So what thicko rahul maino aka gandhi , said cetainly confirmed their beleif that indians are a people with a slave mindset ,THEY HAVE NO FEELING FOR THEIR COUNTRY , also if he really knew american mind then he should have unequivocally said islamic terror is a menace , FOR THAT IS ONLY THING AMERICANS ARE INTERESTED TO LISTEN AT THE MOMENT. But he is too thick to realise this.
the same reason japanese have a very low opinion about the indians , but not indian philosophy.
Digvijay singh is just plain trying to grab MARKET SHARE , for that is his BRAND STRENGTH.
In the process he is going a bit loopy.
As to Kerala , Gopi you have avoided my query .I would be very interested to know WHY ISLAMIC TERRORISM ISN’T A BIG PROBLEM IN WEST BENGAL ,DESPITE 20% of them are MUSLIMS .

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
there is no islamic terrorism in kerala as well.they are fabricating the crisis so that ,there will somebody to listen them as well.

Vinay Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:06 am
@Shoeb,
Congress, always encourages extremists over moderates for cheap vote bank politics. It raised Bhindrawale to counter moderate Akali Dal. Finally who paid the price? It was Sikhs. It is now playing the same dirty trick; being “compassionate” with muslims of extremist views. Finally ordinary muslim will have to pay the price. It is unfortunate that educated muslims like Zia, instead of opposing these short sighted vote bank gimmicks (which will eventually harm the community) are choosing to clap for Rahul.

@Shan
Whom are muslim radicals up against in West Bengal? Answer: Hindus. Whom are they trying to dominate in Kerala? Answer: Christians. That should say it all. Christians are not Hindus. Only in last couple of years, Islam radicalism has affected the Christians. Already they are into action. Dissecting the faulty policies of Congress and Marxists. Compare it to reaction towards “Deganga”. For the rest of India, the main concern of Hindus is caste of their CM (Gowdas v/s Lingayats in Karnataka, Reddys v/s Naidus in Andhra and it goes on). Who has the time to rise voice against discriminating policies? No wonder, so many outsiders looted us.

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 2:34 am
@Vinay, There is no substantial muslim extremism in WEST BENGAL. It is considered a SAFE HAVEN by the terrorist. Though to be fair , as much I think that state has sunk into an economic and cultural morass , IT HAS SOME UNIQUENESS. Caste plays no role in elections, that doesn’t mean there is all intercaste marriage , far from it, it healthy and kicking well. I think what L Mirza alluded to in respect to the backwardness of quom is pertinent here. He spoke of lack of literature in muslim world , and I quote Voltaire who said “Literature has taken the rough edges out of man”. And one thing west bengal can be reasonably proud of is its literature , WHICH PRETTY MUCH LIBERAL THOUGH HINDU THROUGH AND THROUGH. This applies upto yr 2000, after that it has become like jamuna, filthy, lifeless , the only shinning light is a muslim called ABUL BASHAR . Also all the major political parties are well represented by muslims, and despite i loathe the left front govt, I have to concede LAND REFORM AND SURPLUS LAND MOSTLY WENT TO POOR MUSLIM PEASANTS. Again there is this PARADOX, juxtapose SACHAR committee
report, MUSLIMS ARE WORSE OFF than the rest of the quom scattered in India. This should provide enough fodder to extremism. So we can safely debunk the economic causality theory. This leaves us with the leaders who ARE BENGALI FIRST AND BOWLED OVER BY THE LIBERAL ARTS AND LITERATURE OF BENGAL thus makes bengal bereft of shabuddin , owaisi, antulay , c m jafar et al.

Shoeb K Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Vinay-

You stated it right. At the end of the day it is the minority (in this case Muslims) who will be the losers. The “Silent” minorities have done extremely well in India and everywhere else. Look at how well Indians are doing in US/UK? (and they are doing well without compromising on religion, or practices; in fact they are building temples right and left everywhere!). The “victimhood” mentality and the support of the ” liberal enlightened ” for the “victims” will make the “victims’” lives only worse, not better. It hs been proved everywhere, all the time.

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
@ShoebK , you are spot on , and you have left out the most successful and powerful minority of all times , THE JEWS, and how well they have done , the success became so extreeme that it invited jealousy of a vicious kind in germany. However indian muslims are hapless victims of DO GOODERS , one of which is swarming this blog by the name of Bobby.

Bobby Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Well that shows that Mr Dhume’s brain is not in his head but in his as s. The Hindutva terrorists are not terrorists because of the few people who may have played a role in some bomb blasts. organizations like the hindutva terrorists dont need bombs to kill people. These are organizations, which have been involved in murder and rape in Gujarat, Mumbai, Orissa for several decades at the least.

Their fundamentalism and terrorism starts in the early 20th century. It has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism. Of course it has used the fact of islamic fundamentalism to further its goals. People like Dhume are not idiots they are Liars.

What happened in Gujarat, and previously during the early 90’s is nothing short of terrorism on an all india scale. People like Dhume should read the speeches that are made by hindutva leaders which are all available nowadays online. Or he can listen to what Babu Bajrangi has to say about Muslims.

On a different (but related) note, today the great Indian courts have decided that Binayak Sen is guilty of treason. The man who spent all his life for poor and broken tribal people. We are also told that people think that Tendulkar should be given a Bharat Ratna. That shows the level of civilization this society has reached.

The Binayak Sen case is just another judgement, which like the disgusting judgement of the Babri masjid issue, shows what a banana republic this country is- where the minorities, be it religious or the adivasis, can have no justice.

As Arundhati Roy correctly puts it: India is an upper caste corporate Hindu state. And more and more evidence is showing exactly that- be it the contents of the Radia tapes or the Babri masjid and Binayak Sen judgements.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I find it very strange that people who claims to be rational and others who claim to be irreligious, have so much to say about Islamic fundamentalism, but are so apologetic when it comes to hindu terror (and not just whether they are involved in some bomb blasts).

Interestingly Mr Dhume also seems to think that we should not talk too much about hindu terror because then Pakistan will get off the leash, which shows how little his concerns have to do with justice for victims.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
By the way, i read another article of this creature on the Radia tapes. He did not dissapoint me. Not a word on Corporate-Political nexus. Way to go Dhume.

shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
@Bobby this is my thought on right wing hindutwa menace
@deb Mishra, ABHINAV BHARAT needs to be destroyed root and branch , full stop , IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAMIC TERRORISM , india is not abhinav bharat’s “bap ka maal
and this is my thought on Rdaia tape
Vinay, did you need the radia tapes to convince you about corruption in politics. i had written a long passage in response to a blogger named Lenin, and gave him my intimate knowledge of corruption during socialist command economy era.These things happen because it is not open auction, also corruption will be virtually impossible to make a dent. I understand americans think a little bit of corruption is good , IT GREASESTHE SYSTEM , things move quickly, then again that is america , they themself have fair bit of corruption. I think corruption is not the MAIN problem.The main problem is far more fundamental, agriculture is stone age, education and HIGHER EDUCATION is shit and doesn’t reach 50% population , industry(bar IT, Software) is great by bangladesh standard, not global standard. there is not a single indian brand in global top hundreed brands.
@Binoy Hegde, your words”in fact I wonder, how Radia was able to get so much access and influence across all the spectrum in such a short time without being born into a “connected family” or wealth.. ”
bribes and h o o k ers, not exactly rocket science is it.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
Shan

Well, if it is just bribes and hookers, we should have millions of powerful lobbysts.. How could one person from abroad (she moved from London) get into high levels of – bureaucracy, ministry, business, media ..u name it — and manipulate? She has to be good man in her field –and I am glad merit tises,a nd not family connections.. What she did is nothing illegal; she lobbied for her clients

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 1:06 am
@binoy hegde, a WOMAN pimp is rather novel ,also being woman “endeared” her to the clients .Connections with high and mighty , the list doesn’t make happy reading, chanrdaswami, Telgi , the illiterate muslim , sahabuddin, pappu yadav list goes on.

S Singh Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Mr Bobby
You are smoking something when you say religious minorities do not have any rights. Why would an intelligent man like you make thes etypes of statements (especially when you blame Sadannd Dhume for msileading)

So, are you now equating a “terror” speech to terrorism? In thaty case, are the speeches (and writings) by some Hindus only included in this, or you include the Muslim speech makers too?

Adivasis are exploited. Big money is allocated for their welfare and well being, laws are on the books – bureaucracy steals and explois. The late Rajiv Gandhi mentioned once that only 15 paise our of one rupee really ends up for whom it was meant for. I for one will not be against capital punishment for officlas who steal money meant for real deserving citizens.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 1:09 am
@S singh,the greatest MINORITY is the PRINCE , RAHUL MAINO aka gandhi , 25% hindu through his grandmother only.

Ravi Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:21 pm

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
@Bobby , I dont know a great deal about Binayak Sen ,other than he has a gora wife , and he has indeed camped himself with the tribals. Though it is possible he may have provided few guns to tribals , though his punishment is certainly too severe, though again i must say there is information deficit here. rest of your rant uncannily mirrors the ubiquitous ram autar.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:39 am
@Bobby, sorry just saw NDTV clip , if it is to be beleived his wife is not Gora , with name Ellina , i don’t know what she is. he may have been stiched up , being bengalee didn’t help ,the judge is Verma .Though sympathy for the tribals is one thing and support for the Maoist ideology which wants to overthrow the state is another.

shan Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 4:18 am
@Bobby, difference between hindutwa terrorist, some surgical metaphor, both are prostate cancer(second most commonest) , but hindutwa being vegetarian , is gleeson score 3 or 4 , therefore needs WATCHFUL WAITING, islamic terrorism is saturated fat/red meat eating , thus gleeson 9 or 10 needs MEDICAL CASTRATION WITH RADICAL RADIOTHERAPHY.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
So, on the day of the birth of the Prince of Peace, a FEMALE suicide bomber explodes in a FOOD DISTRIBUTION CENTER (where food is being distributed to poor MUSLIMS), killing 45 MUSLIMS..

Figure it out

ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
mr benoy, So, on the day of the birth of the Prince of Peace, a FEMALE suicide bomber explodes in

till the followers of prince of peace were not there ,they lived like brother.who planted this hatred.good lesson to learn for peaceful people of india.

shan Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:03 am
Merry christmas to all, Binoy hegde, quite sad really ,don’t know where it will end , reflect on this piece of news from UK.
But a UK Border Agency spokesman said: “Mr Rana’s claim was turned down by the UK Border Agency and then by an appeal court where a judge found that elements of his case were inconsistent and that he had failed to show that he faces persecution in Pakistan.”

Ahmer, an only child from Lahore, left Pakistan when he was 14 after his parents feared the family’s lives were in danger. He has had no contact with them since.

He said: “I really don’t know how I can prove to [the border agency] that my life would be in danger.

“I am living in the UK now. How can I prove to them that if I go back to Pakistan they are going to kill me? I really don’t know how.

“I haven’t got contact with [my parents] since I came to this country.

“I don’t really know if they are still there, but as they sent me away to save my life, they’ve probably gone somewhere else as well, to save theirs.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Latest on the bombing at the food distribution center –

This woman in burqua explodes, killing 46, of which 9 were children waiting for food….

So, this is Muslim compassion..

Dont bring the shallow argument that these jehadists are killing children becaus e US is there.. Kill the soldiers, kill the Pak and US military , but why kill childrten??? and women??and men…

Pakistanis are emotional when it comes to drone attacks. More Msulims have been killed by Mislims in Pakistan than drones have killed.. may be hundred times..
D Mishra, UK

As I said before, can everyone please stop responding to the repetitive moronic postings by ramautar. Without the oxygen of publicity, he may slither away. Dr Dev Mishra, UK

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
pundit tumhara fatwa koi sun nahin raha hai.if u have any good awnser i will welcome.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
mishrajee jawab deejiye,if have any,

Secret of India’s poverty

Bangalore: India will not be able to solve its “problem of poverty” even after 50 years of MDG plan. This is the verdict of the United Nations.

But it did not say why.

We have the answer: The people of India are not governed by a govt. There is nothing like a govt. here. The country is governed by a ruling class — comprising its 15% upper castes. We have said it time and again.

India deliberately kept sick: As long as we keep this 15% upper castes as rulers, India will not only be poor and starving but — rotten, corrupt, chaotic and permanently sick.

The rulers want it like that. They are keeping the over 85% of the population, comprising SC/ST/BCs (65%) plus Muslim, Christian, Sikhs (20%) — total 85% deliberately sick and starving — so that they don’t think.

And more than that they will not be able to identify the exploiters.

Hundreds of times we have said it.

Hence it is all a repetition.

Who is ruling India: In our book, Who is Ruling India? And How? (DSA-2010) we have said all this.

But what is the use of our book? English is known to only 3% of Indians of which 90% are Brahmins.

The country is collapsing — very fast.

The over-fed, arrogant rulers with a closed mind, fully guided by the Jews in the West, are preparing for a war with Pakistan which will directly put India against China.

That means India will get further impoverished and lakhs of our people will die in the war. Who cares?

UN indicts India

New Delhi: India will take over 50 years to halve its number of starving people due to low budget allocation for agriculture and rising food prices, a global report has said.

“India cannot halve its number of people starving until 2083, nearly 70 years after the Millennium Development goals target date”, a report called “Who’s Really Fighting Hunger?” said. Around a quarter of the world’s population, who are deprived of food live in India and 43% of all children in the country under the age of five are malnourished, the study prepared by London-based organisation ActionAid says.

Perception income

While India’s per capita income tripled between 1990 and 2005, the number of hungry people also increased by 53 million bringing the total number of chronically hungry people in India to a staggering 270 million, it says.

According to a score-card mentioned in the documents, out of 28 nations ranked in the report, India got a dismal 21st rank while Brazil and China came first and second respectively. (Deccan Herald, Sept.19, 2010).

[Reply]
Shoeb K

As I mentioned before, no extent of reasoning or reasons, or rationalization is going to make Islamic terrorism tenable to Muslims and non-Muslims..

The world (58%) view Muslims unfavourably – justified or unjustified. It is a huge percentage If you remove the 22% Muslim population. One can close to the world or can change behaviour for better.

Equivocating Islamic terrorism to Hindu terrorism or otehr terrorism, or blaming it on USA, or attributing it to economic depravation, or justifying that only a minority does it – this is only going to make Muslims all over the world (and in India) more marginalized making the average and “little” guys’ lives worser. The objective is not to win any debating points; because there is no debate, nobody is calling Muslims for a debate. IZilch..Nadat.

By pushing “wacko” ideas like 11/26 is done by RSS, and Hindu terrorism facing (?) India is more calamitous than the Islamic terrrism happening around the globe as we speak; people like Diggy and secularists like Zia are becoming laughing stocks, and worse, destroying the future of Muslims whom they are supposedly “protecting”.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 1:35 am
Dear Shoeb,
Who has given you the right to decide for yourself what is good for you?

By doing this, are you aware that you are threatening to cause unemployment among vast sections of politicians, journalists and bloggers?
Pray desist.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 3:12 am
The world (58%) view Muslims unfavourably – justified or unjustified

shoeb we should not care the opinion of others.they are treating us like enemy.saddam did his level best ,to prove that ,he had no no wmd.but iraq was attacked destroyed and he was hanged.international media is in their hands.lie is their staple food.we muslims are doing good to everybody as per teachings of islam.
we should not awnser their stupid allegation.same they did to jews.future of ilam is n hands of god/allah.super power could not defeat us in iraq and afghanistan.

zhoot kee tahni kabhi phalti ,naav kagaz kee kabhi chalii nahin.

villian isbeaten at end.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

Shoeb K, I have said it before, most Indian muslims are like you.
Pl do keep coming on these and other Pak blogs ( Express Tribune and Dawn) so that the whole world hears more polished, dignified muslim voices.
Another guy I miss here is Ahmer.
Anyway, Sir, I salute you.
Dr Mishra, UK but – phir bhi dil hai hindustani

[Reply]
Mohan Ramchandani Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Shoeb K,

I pray for the people like you . May your tribe grow. Keep up the good work.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
MR shoeb and mohan,

Poor L.K. Advani, the Sindhi Khatri, who did so much and also suffered so much to keep the Bhoodevatas in power, is today the most hated man in the Brahmana Jati Party (BJP). It was he who led the rowdies brigade to destroy the Babri Masjid.

But today there is none with him. The country’s principal Brahmin paper, the Hindu (Sept.26, 2010) says it in the headlined itself: “Advani sidelined in Ram temple issue”.

Did not the same Bhoodevatas exploit the Gujarati Bania to the fullest extent and the moment India got “independence” and he helped install a Brahmin as the first PM, he was shot dead by a Brahmin only? (And his tribe distributed sweets all over India.

We have said this many times. Never pour milk to the serpent. Kill it. The moment you see it. Those who do not listen to this advice will go the Advani way. His own creation, Modi, has also betrayed him.

But will Advani have the courage to go against BJP and fight the serpents? Never

[Reply]
ram autar

Power of caste & roots of corruption
mr ashish i am against brhmnsm not brhmns.

See the power of caste in India.

Hinduism, the so-called “religion” of the rulers, is a bundle of castes. This “religion”, if it can be called so, is used to bundle up the “low castes” and bludgeon them to submission. This is the meaning of Hinduism.

In the ultimate analysis what matters is the caste. Brahmins, the presiding caste over this bundle of castes, are a micro-minority of just 2%. But they created the castes to bundle up the whole lot of SC/ST/BCs and those above — Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudra — so that they stand tall above all these castes and call themselves the “lords of the land”.

RELIGION OR CASTE ?
Here is a TOI report to prove our point:

: Chief Minister B.S. Yeddyurappa’s confidence in defying the BJP bosses’ purported orders to put in his papers stems from his trump card: being a Lingayat. In the past, wounded and hurt Lingayat leaders managed to stir emotions resulting in vengeful politics.

For, Lingayats constitute 22% of the total 5.5 crore of Karnataka’s population. The community’s clout runs in 80 of the total 224 assembly constituencies with North Karnataka, where the districts are the most backward.

The Lingayats may be 22% of the state population but they are not a “caste” but a religion called Veerashaivas (Lingayats) which comprises all sorts of castes from top to bottom. When it suits the upper castes among the Lingayats, they call themselves a religion separate from Hinduism.

The “low castes” among Lingayats are all SC/ST/OBCs and BCs who continue to remain where they were before conversion. Lingayat lords, however, are converts from upper castes.

MOST CORRUPT CHIEF MINISTER
The whole thing is chaotic.

The Karnataka politics is dominated by the Lingayats in which only the upper caste Banajigas, Jangamas, Sadars count. The other converted “low castes” are Lingayats only for purposes of bloating their jati population.

Anybody studying the problem of caste in India will go mad.

Those interested in the power of caste may order our book, Caste — A Nation Within the Nation (V.T. Rajshekar, Books for Change, Bangalore, Rs. 140. Copies available with DV).

Karnataka’s most corrupt Chief Minister Yeddyurappa, belongs to this caste — his crimes fully blessed by the entire Brahmin gods, Lingayat Swamis and even other upper castes.

As long as the caste system continues, corruption can never be curbed

[Reply]
Gopi Thomas

@Shan

Vinay’s and Shoeb’s observations on Muslim extremism in Kerala are correct..

The Muslim League party, third largest in the state (after CPI(M), Congress), is “moderate” Muslims. However, over a period, Marxists have been able to persuade and create splinter extremist groups out of Muslim League. For a while, congress also supported these splinters.

Now, just like the **** terrorists are turning against their ISI masters and maimimg Pakistanis, CPI (M) and Congress have disowne them, and they are creating problems for the state nd the country. They have Pakistani and Saudi connections. Five boys were killed in their attack on Indian military i Kashmir. Scores have been arrested for attending LeT camps in Pakistan. Madani and his wife Soofitya, who are under arrest, were involved in recruiting.

The point I want to stress to the apologists and secularists is – this ruinous Muslim extremism does not have anything to do with poverty, lack of education, ghettoizing, sangh parivar violence etc, the ususal suspects secularists and Muslim “sympathizers” bring out – There is no Sangh Parivar to speak of in Kerala (BJP does not have a single assembly seat, Muslim League has 22, and including other parties, Muslims have 31 members), Muslims are the second richest in the state (after Christians), and Muslims are much more educated than in other parts of India (although trailing Christians and Hindus in the state; on their ownn volition).

In the recent raids in connection with the chopping of the professor’s hand, homes and offices of a doctor, dentist, lawyer, professor, and twentty plus others were raided. The documents seized , in the words of the Chief Minister Achuthanandan, a (good) CPI (M) leader,a nd no Brahmin (he is Ezhava, a bckward caste) indicated “they have a documented plan to make Kerala a Muslim majority state, destroy the institutions and religious harmony, obtaining training and financial support from foreign countries”

[Reply]
ram autar

The point I want to stress to the apologists and secularists is – this ruinous Muslim extremism does not have anything to do with poverty, lack of education, ghettoizing, sangh parivar violence etc, the

NOW MUSLIMS IN KERALA ARE FAR RICHER THA CHRISTIANS.can u quote any act of muslim extremism in kerala.name of extremist.
everyday there is street fight between cpim and hindu fascists (brhmn jaati party)hundreds have killed.gopi u are local agent of international divisive forces in india.

Madani and his wife Soofitya, who are under arrest, were involved in recruiting.

this is absolute lie.madani is religious person.police or cbi could not prove any allegation against him in court.he was released.this hidu fascist made another fake against him and put him in jail.

brhmnst(you have not to be brhmn to be brhmnst)are seeing state power shifting from high caste to
backwards and dalit and muslims.
so all these stories without any proof is being propagated.talk with some proof.u alwaays talk nonsense.why.

[Reply]
ram autar

.PHYSICALLY & MENTALLY HANDICAPPED india can never beat china.
The entire wealth of India is owned by a less than 15% of the alien upper castes who do not love this country. The rest of the 85% indigenous people are pushed to the bottom – starving, illiterate, physically weak, sweat labour

[Reply]
ram autar

shan Reply:

December 25th, 2010 at 3:37 am

but nehru imprisoned s p mukherjee and did he not die in jail.you are a NUTCASE

shan yes shayama prasad died in jail but of natural reasons.nobody killed him .he was the head priest of hindu fascism in india.as madhok being punjabi had no brain.but he was evil,no doubt.sarat chander bose ,brother of subhash chander bose was fighting for united bengalbut he cared more of bhadaralok than india or bengal.he went to kasmir for same purpose.he was divisive with fascist mentality.

[Reply]
ram autar

Yoga bad for knees, Indian doctor warns
Updated at: 1146 PST, Saturday, December 25, 2010
MUMBAI: Yoga may be good for your karma, but is terrible for your knees, an Indian orthopaedic surgeon has warned.

Dr Ashok Rajgopal says he has performed knee replacement surgery on a number of leading yoga gurus.

His warnings are a serious challenge to those who say yoga, which is now a multi-billion pound global industry, can ward off the effects of ageing and leave devotees feeling fitter, stronger and at peace with the world.

Some of its most charismatic teachers, like India’s Baba Ramdev, who has built a worldwide empire through television appearances, believe its breathing exercises can even cure diseases like HIV Aids and cancer. In the United States alone, more than £4 billion a year is spent on yoga equipment and 15 million people are regular practitioners.

But according to Dr Rajgopal, the extreme stretching exercises at the heart of the discipline cause severe stress on joints, leading to arthritis.

He has seen a higher incidence of joint and bone ailments among yoga followers.
“Yoga is wonderful provided it is done in a controlled environment, and people are trained and built up to doing such postures but putting the public at large through these extreme yoga postures can create problems for them,” he said.

“Many yoga gurus had to undergo knee surgeries, they had been affected by yoga postures,” he told.

“Extreme postures like acute deep knee bends, particularly for people who are not used to doing these postures, it is definitely harmful to them in terms of the abnormal stresses, and damage to cartilages. In that respect it is harmful.”

He said he had seen particular problems among people who had practised yoga in classes of more than 100 people

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
So, you do not have any problem believing this Brahmin?

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
mr singh i am not brhmns i am agaisnt brhmnsm.i wrote u before also that JOGA IS HUMBUG and dangerous for health.ramdev used to mix human bones in his medicine.2 brhmn girls testified against him.bur brhmncl justice system is known to everybody.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
mr singh i am not against brhmns
deeteeN

the author has missed the point. The whole fracas is about the fact that Yuvraj has said that Hindu radicals are a BIGGER threat than outfits like the LET.
anybody who thinks that a ragtag bunch of frustrated nutcases are a bigger threat than organizations like the LET (who have whole nations behind them) is a stark raving shortsighted lunatic.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
bjp their main supporters gets around 35%votes while percentage of votes for communal parties is only 7%.lethas far less support in pakista than what rss has in india.it is party of ruling class.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Try convincing that to another blogger who merits all the adjectives you have used , he is Ravi pakistani and bobby .

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

35 Christians were killed by Islamists in Nigeria on the eve of Christmas ..the jury is out whether this was a terrorist attack, or a political ploy by the opposition party to create riots in preparation for an upcoming election.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
nigeria has oil so thje zoinists/.so the trouble murder etc.last year more than 1000 muslims were butchere by christian army and christian tibe.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Interesting news from UK — Shan , can you provide further insight?

3% of UK births are among UK Pakistani Muslims – However, one in three (33%) of all birth defects are among Pakistani births/children prompting the government to look into reasons, how to cut rising medical costs etc.

Phil Woola, the Environment minister, stated that 50% of Pakistani Muslims marry their first cousins increasing the probability of birth defects. He wants a nationwide campaign against this; however Mullahs have started a counter punch with the usual “Islam in Dange”

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 12:35 am
@Binoy Hegde, Phil woolas is no longer a minister, his party Labour has been unseated by the Tories. we all know about genetic disease being prevalent in societies where there is INBREEDING, this is not rocket science ,simple mendelian laws of inheritance. regarding cost to the society it is indeed huge , because UK unlike USA is a land of SOCIAL SECURITY/NANNY STATE,unlike USA which is built on social insecurity. I used to work in Staffordshire , there was a pakistani doctor , who had married his cousin .All their children used to go blind and nrves degenerate with the precision of a clock around the age of ten , and turn into vegetables. They had two such children at home and another couple younger. In order to give RESPITE to the family, these children used to be admitted in children’s ward , though they didn’t have any acute illness , for couple of weeks. This is why the concern is. Though little that I know about these punjabis and mirpuri kashmiris , just because infidels are saying something and not written in quoran THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PAY ANY HEED , and the tradition will continue.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 1:23 am
change takes times.i still wash my mouth atleast 3 time ,if i speak english more thanhalf hrs.
mr shan instead of refinig muslims ,better teach yr own ommunitiy.who waste almost their entire
year in useless pujas.20%of year office remain close.whenever i go india i find new god.this time ,new bhagwan has in lakhimpur kheeri.up.english mayya ka mandir.lord macaulay is their bhagwan.bapu asaram has sacrifice 25 children in his ashram but no action.
mullahs have position in sunni muslim society.we dont mrtgage our brain to them nor they will take us to heaven.
change will come slowly and it will come.many areas of science pakistan is ahead of india.Photo editing software developed by a Pakistan technology firm Five Rivers became the best selling paid-for application for the Blackberry, the firm said Wednesday
though india is bigger than pakistan ,but biggest markt of nokia in the world is pakistan.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 12:47 am
Mr Hegde

May be this is the reason why Pakistan is in such a miserable shape — retards who cannot run a country, who get manipulated to be terrorists graduating in only one subject IT (international Terrorism).

the number of retards should be high with the inbreeding… I bet that has something to do with the lack of institutions, apathy to government, attraction to terrorism , comfort with medieval age life style etcc..

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:16 am
ram autar says:
December 27, 2010 at 2:01 am
shan benoy and mr singh,deformed child is because they are coming from war zones.americans are using depleted uranium in that area very generously.in iraq also deformed child has become a problem.even americans who have worked in iraq are facing same problem.cousin marriages are going from thousands of years but this problem is new.though i agree that marriages wit close relatives is harmful.but due to lack of communication family marriage was easy

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 1:05 am
marriage with cousins has nothing to do with islam.it is tradition.can be reform through teachings.parsis,the most intelligent race of india also marry their cousins. .in india all races want to marry their own caste.
marrying first cousins breeds problems.mullah cannot oppose this.as it is not part of religion.islam is religion of reason ,not traditions.some fool are found everywher.

[Reply]
A. N. O.

Yesterday I came across this article and I felt I must alert my patriotic friends about how even the BBC (Barde Badmash Chaloo) log are trying to besmirch the good name of Hindus. The noblest religion in the world.

I have a feeling that this documentary was shot entirely in Pakistan and then under political pressure from the USA, the story was changed to India.

This is self evident from the following.

The SCs and untouchables have improved so much in India that some of them are allowed to become Chief Ministers. Now let any one give me one example where SCs and OBCs have ever become a chief minister in Pakistan.

In India, our Police always register a case against the untouchables; the example given here is completely unbelievable.

No one in India gets married at the age of 12 and has their first baby when only 13. This is just not possible in India, Only Saudi Men come to Hyderabad for one day marriages with 12 yr olds and as every one knows only Mohamed married his friends 9 yr old daughter. No No not in India 12 yr olds do not get married, this MUST be in PAKISTAN.

________________________________________________

India’s ‘pink’ vigilante women
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Banda

They wear pink saris and go after corrupt officials and boorish men with sticks and axes.
The several hundred vigilante women of India’s northern Uttar Pradesh state’s Banda area proudly call themselves the “gulabi gang” (pink gang), striking fear in the hearts of wrongdoers and earning the grudging respect of officials.

The pink women of Banda shun political parties and NGOs because, in the words of their feisty leader, Sampat Pal Devi, “they are always looking for kickbacks when they offer to fund us”.

Two years after they gave themselves a name and an attire, the women in pink have thrashed men who have abandoned or beaten their wives and unearthed corruption in the distribution of grain to the poor.

They have also stormed a police station and attacked a policeman after they took in an untouchable man and refused to register a case.

Poorest
“Nobody comes to our help in these parts. The officials and the police are corrupt and anti-poor. So sometimes we have to take the law in our hands. At other times, we prefer to shame the wrongdoers,” says Sampat Pal Devi, between teaching a “gang” member on how to use a lathi (traditional Indian stick) in self defence.

Banda is at the heart of the blighted region that is Bundelkhand, one of the poorest parts of one of India’s most populous states.

It is among the poorest 200 districts in India which were first targeted for the federal government’s massive jobs-for-work programme. Over 20% of its 1.6 million people living in 600 villages are lower castes or untouchables. Drought has parched its already arid, single-crop lands.

To make matters worse, women bear the brunt of poverty and discrimination in Banda’s highly caste-ridden, feudalistic and male dominated society. Dowry demands and domestic and sexual violence are common.

Locals say it is not surprising that a women’s vigilante group has sprung up in this landscape of poverty, discrimination and chauvinism.

Sampat Pal Devi is a wiry woman, wife of an ice cream vendor, mother of five children, and a former government health worker who set up and leads the “pink gang”.

“Mind you,” she says, “we are not a gang in the usual sense of the term. We are a gang for justice.”

‘Uproot the corrupt’

Her seeds of rebellion were sown very early on when in face of her parents’ resistance to send her to school, she began writing and drawing on the walls, floors and dust-caked village streets.

She finally ended up going to school, but was married off when she was nine in a region where child marriages are common. At 12, she went to live with her husband and at 13 she had her first child.

To keep the home fires burning, Sampat Devi began to work as a government health worker, but she quit after a while because her job was not satisfying enough.

“I wanted to work for the people, not for myself alone. I was already holding meetings with people, networking with women who were ready to fight for a cause, and was ready with a group of women two years ago,” she says.

Sitting outside a home in Attara, Sampat Devi waves her calloused hands, breaks into a rousing song to “uproot the corrupt and be self reliant”, and animatedly talks to women – and men – who flock to her with their problems.

A mother brings in her weeping daughter who has been thrown out by her husband demanding 20,000 rupees from her parents.

“He married me for the love of money,” sobs Malti.

Sampat Devi tells her “gang” that they will soon march to the girl’s house and demand an explanation from the husband. “If they don’t take her back and keep her well, we will resort to other measures,” she says.

‘No handouts’

The pink sorority is not exactly a group of male-bashing feminists – they claim they have returned 11 girls who were thrown out of their homes to their spouses because “women need men to live with”.

That is also why men like Jai Prakash Shivhari join the “gulabi” gang and talk with remarkable passion about child marriages, dowry deaths, depleting water resources, farm subsidies and how funds are being stolen in government projects.

“We don’t want donations or handouts. We don’t want appeasement or affirmative action. Give us work, pay us proper wages and restore our dignity,” he says.

The women in the “gulabi gang” echo the same sentiment – but Sampat Devi has a separate agenda for women.

“Village society in India is loaded against women. It refuses to educate them, marries them off too early, barters them for money. Village women need to study and become independent to sort it out themselves,” she says.

Where do the pink women go from here?

They already claim to have done some work in combating crime and corruption in the area. Last year, Sampat Devi contested the state polls as an independent candidate and mustered only 2,800 votes.

“Joining politics is not my chosen way to help people. We will keep up our good work, so the state does not take us for granted,” she says.

In the badlands of Uttar Pradesh where nothing seems to work for the poor, this itself is a laudable aim.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 4:13 am
@a n o from TERRORISTAN, this what youe co religionist have written in todays HT, to spare you the chance of avoiding some unpalatable truth , here is a cut and paste
When a burqa-clad woman charged into a crowd at a World Food Program distribution centre in Pakistan’s Bajur district on Saturday, killing nearly 50 people and injuring 100, she symptomised the violence and turmoil that gripped the country for most of 2010. A series of terrorist attacks, natural
disasters, economic mismanagement, and a lethal combination of greed and corruption — in the words of some — have taken the country back by two steps this year.
Nearly 1,300 people were killed and 2,500 injured in 52 suicide attacks since January, making 2010 the bloodiest year since 2001 in terms of the number of people killed.

The year started with a suicide attack on a volleyball field in Lakki Marwat, which killed 90. The Taliban also launched a series of attacks against military targets, including a brazen attack within a mosque in Rawalpindi area to kill the son of the corps commander who was overseeing operations in Waziristan.

Then there were attacks on shrines — the worst attacks being on the Data Darbar in Lahore, which killed 40 and the Abdullah Shah Ghazi shrine in Karachi where 20 died. There was also an attack on a mosque of the Ahmadiyya community, which killed another 80 innocent people.

And yet feet continued to be dragged on the terror attacks in Mumbai and Jamaat-ud-Daawa chief Hafiz Saeed, the 26/11 mastermind, remained unfettered, spewing poison amongst the populace and urging for “blood or water” in response to fears that India may cut off Pakistan’s water supplies.

There were steps back in sport as well. Pakistan suffered several defeats on the cricket field and scandals off it. The economy, for its part, remained fragile owing to ballooning energy costs and losses from the floods. In many respects, the country emerged poorer by the end of the year

[Reply]
ram autar

shan benoy and mr singh,deformed child is because they are coming from war zones.americans are using depleted uranium in that area very generously.in iraq also deformed child has become a problem.even americans who have worked in iraq are facing same problem.cousin marriages are going from thousands of years but this problem is new.though i agree that marriages wit close relatives is harmful.but due to lack of communication family marriage was easy.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:11 am
i fully agree with u in iraq also deformed child is very common.during saddam era nobody ever heard of this.

[Reply]
A. N. O.

Marriage

In India there is no greater event in a family than a wedding, dramatically evoking every possible social obligation, kinship bond, traditional value, impassioned sentiment, and economic resource. In the arranging and conducting of weddings, the complex permutations of Indian social systems best display themselves.

Marriage is deemed essential for virtually everyone in India. For the individual, marriage is the great watershed in life, marking the transition to adulthood. Generally, this transition, like everything else in India, depends little upon individual volition but instead occurs as a result of the efforts of many people. Even as one is born into a particular family without the exercise of any personal choice, so is one given a spouse without any personal preference involved. Arranging a marriage is a critical responsibility for parents and other relatives of both bride and groom. Marriage alliances entail some redistribution of wealth as well as building and restructuring social realignments, and, of course, result in the biological reproduction of families.

Some parents begin marriage arrangements on the birth of a child, but most wait until later. In the past, the age of marriage was quite young, and in a few small groups, especially in Rajasthan, children under the age of five are still united in marriage. In rural communities, prepuberty marriage for girls traditionally was the rule. In the late twentieth century, the age of marriage is rising in villages, almost to the levels that obtain in cities. Legislation mandating minimum marriage ages has been passed in various forms over the past decades, but such laws have little effect on actual marriage practices.

Essentially, India is divided into two large regions with regard to Hindu kinship and marriage practices, the north and the south. Additionally, various ethnic and tribal groups of the central, mountainous north, and eastern regions follow a variety of other practices. These variations have been extensively described and analyzed by anthropologists, especially Irawati Karve, David G. Mandelbaum, and Clarence Maloney.

Broadly, in the Indo-Aryan-speaking north, a family seeks marriage alliances with people to whom it is not already linked by ties of blood. Marriage arrangements often involve looking far afield. In the Dravidian-speaking south, a family seeks to strengthen existing kin ties through marriage, preferably with blood relatives. Kinship terminology reflects this basic pattern. In the north, every kinship term clearly indicates whether the person referred to is a blood relation or an affinal relation; all blood relatives are forbidden as marriage mates to a person or a person’s children. In the south, there is no clear-cut distinction between the family of birth and the family of marriage. Because marriage in the south commonly involves a continuing exchange of daughters among a few families, for the married couple all relatives are ultimately blood kin. Dravidian terminology stresses the principle of relative age: all relatives are arranged according to whether they are older or younger than each other without reference to generation.

On the Indo-Gangetic Plain, marriages are contracted outside the village, sometimes even outside of large groups of villages, with members of the same caste beyond any traceable consanguineal ties. In much of the area, daughters should not be given into villages where daughters of the family or even of the natal village have previously been given. In most of the region, brother-sister exchange marriages (marriages linking a brother and sister of one household with the sister and brother of another) are shunned. The entire emphasis is on casting the marriage net ever-wider, creating new alliances. The residents of a single village may have in-laws in hundreds of other villages.

In most of North India, the Hindu bride goes to live with strangers in a home she has never visited. There she is sequestered and veiled, an outsider who must learn to conform to new ways. Her natal family is often geographically distant, and her ties with her consanguineal kin undergo attenuation to varying degrees.

In central India, the basic North Indian pattern prevails, with some modifications. For example, in Madhya Pradesh, village exogamy is preferred, but marriages within a village are not uncommon. Marriages between caste-fellows in neighboring villages are frequent. Brother-sister exchange marriages are sometimes arranged, and daughters are often given in marriage to lineages where other daughters of their lineage or village have previously been wed.

In South India, in sharp contrast, marriages are preferred between cousins (especially cross-cousins, that is, the children of a brother and sister) and even between uncles and nieces (especially a man and his elder sister’s daughter). The principle involved is that of return–the family that gives a daughter expects one in return, if not now, then in the next generation. The effect of such marriages is to bind people together in relatively small, tight-knit kin groups. A bride moves to her in-laws’ home–the home of her grandmother or aunt–and is often comfortable among these familiar faces. Her husband may well be the cousin she has known all her life that she would marry.
Many South Indian marriages are contracted outside of such close kin groups when no suitable mates exist among close relatives, or when other options appear more advantageous. Some sophisticated South Indians, for example, consider cousin marriage and uncle-niece marriage outmoded.

Rules for the remarriage of widows differ from one group to another. Generally, lower-ranking groups allow widow remarriage, particularly if the woman is relatively young, but the highest-ranking castes discourage or forbid such remarriage. The most strict adherents to the nonremarriage of widows are Brahmans. Almost all groups allow widowers to remarry. Many groups encourage a widower to marry his deceased wife’s younger sister (but never her older sister).

Among Muslims of both the north and the south, marriage between cousins is encouraged, both cross-cousins (the children of a brother and sister) and parallel cousins (the children of two same-sex siblings). In the north, such cousins grow up calling each other “brother” and “sister”, yet they may marry. Even when cousin marriage does not occur, spouses can often trace between them other kinship linkages.

Some tribal people of central India practice an interesting permutation of the southern pattern. Among the Murias of Bastar in southeastern Madhya Pradesh, as described by anthropologist Verrier Elwin, teenagers live together in a dormitory (ghotul ), sharing life and love with one another for several blissful years. Ultimately, their parents arrange their marriages, usually with cross-cousins, and the delights of teenage romance are replaced with the serious responsibilities of adulthood. In his survey of some 2,000 marriages, Elwin found only seventy-seven cases of ghotul partners eloping together and very few cases of divorce. Among the Muria and Gond tribal groups, cross-cousin marriage is called “bringing back the milk,” alluding to the gift of a girl in one generation being returned by the gift of a girl in the next.

Finding the perfect partner for one’s child can be a challenging task. People use their social networks to locate potential brides and grooms of appropriate social and economic status. Increasingly, urban dwellers use classified matrimonial advertisements in newspapers. The advertisements usually announce religion, caste, and educational qualifications, stress female beauty and male (and in the contemporary era, sometimes female) earning capacity, and may hint at dowry size.

In rural areas, matches between strangers are usually arranged without the couple meeting each other. Rather, parents and other relatives come to an agreement on behalf of the couple. In cities, however, especially among the educated classes, photographs are exchanged, and sometimes the couple are allowed to meet under heavily chaperoned circumstances, such as going out for tea with a group of people or meeting in the parlor of the girl’s home, with her relatives standing by. Young professional men and their families may receive inquiries and photographs from representatives of several girls’ families. They may send their relatives to meet the most promising candidates and then go on tour themselves to meet the young women and make a final choice. In the early 1990s, increasing numbers of marriages arranged in this way link brides and grooms from India with spouses of Indian parentage resident in Europe, North America, and the Middle East.

Almost all Indian children are raised with the expectation that their parents will arrange their marriages, but an increasing number of young people, especially among the college-educated, are finding their own spouses. So-called love marriages are deemed a slightly scandalous alternative to properly arranged marriages. Some young people convince their parents to “arrange” their marriages to people with whom they have fallen in love. This process has long been possible for Indians from the south and for Muslims who want to marry a particular cousin of the appropriate marriageable category. In the upper classes, these semi-arranged love marriages increasingly occur between young people who are from castes of slightly different rank but who are educationally or professionally equal. If there are vast differences to overcome, such as is the case with love marriages between Hindus and Muslims or between Hindus of very different caste status, parents are usually much less agreeable, and serious family disruptions can result.

In much of India, especially in the north, a marriage establishes a structural opposition between the kin groups of the bride and groom–bride-givers and bride-takers. Within this relationship, bride-givers are considered inferior to bride-takers and are forever expected to give gifts to the bride-takers. The one-way flow of gifts begins at engagement and continues for a generation or two. The most dramatic aspect of this asymmetrical relationship is the giving of dowry.

In many communities throughout India, a dowry has traditionally been given by a bride’s kin at the time of her marriage. In ancient times, the dowry was considered a woman’s wealth–property due a beloved daughter who had no claim on her natal family’s real estate–and typically included portable valuables such as jewelry and household goods that a bride could control throughout her life. However, over time, the larger proportion of the dowry has come to consist of goods and cash payments that go straight into the hands of the groom’s family. In the late twentieth century, throughout much of India, dowry payments have escalated, and a groom’s parents sometimes insist on compensation for their son’s higher education and even for his future earnings, to which the bride will presumably have access. Some of the dowries demanded are quite oppressive, amounting to several years’ salary in cash as well as items such as motorcycles, air conditioners, and fancy cars. Among some lower-status groups, large dowries are currently replacing traditional bride-price payments. Even among Muslims, previously not given to demanding large dowries, reports of exorbitant dowries are increasing.

The dowry is becoming an increasingly onerous burden for the bride’s family. Antidowry laws exist but are largely ignored, and a bride’s treatment in her marital home is often affected by the value of her dowry. Increasingly frequent are horrible incidents, particularly in urban areas, where a groom’s family makes excessive demands on the bride’s family–even after marriage–and when the demands are not met, murder the bride, typically by setting her clothes on fire in a cooking “accident.” The groom is then free to remarry and collect another sumptuous dowry. The male and female in-laws implicated in these murders have seldom been punished.

Such dowry deaths have been the subject of numerous media reports in India and other countries and have mobilized feminist groups to action. In some of the worst areas, such as the National Capital Territory of Delhi, where hundreds of such deaths are reported annually and the numbers are increasing yearly, the law now requires that all suspicious deaths of new brides be investigated. Official government figures report 1,786 registered dowry deaths nationwide in 1987; there is also an estimate of some 5,000 dowry deaths in 1991. Women’s groups sometimes picket the homes of the in-laws of burned brides. Some analysts have related the growth of this phenomenon to the growth of consumerism in Indian society.

Fears of impoverishing their parents have led some urban middle-class young women, married and unmarried, to commit suicide. However, through the giving of large dowries, the newly wealthy are often able to marry their treasured daughters up the status hierarchy so reified in Indian society.
After marriage arrangements are completed, a rich panoply of wedding rituals begins. Each religious group, region, and caste has a slightly different set of rites. Generally, all weddings involve as many kin and associates of the bride and groom as possible. The bride’s family usually hosts most of the ceremonies and pays for all the arrangements for large numbers of guests for several days, including accommodation, feasting, decorations, and gifts for the groom’s party. These arrangements are often extremely elaborate and expensive and are intended to enhance the status of the bride’s family. The groom’s party usually hires a band and brings fine gifts for the bride, such as jewelry and clothing, but these are typically far outweighed in value by the presents received from the bride’s side.

After the bride and groom are united in sacred rites attended by colorful ceremony, the new bride may be carried away to her in-laws’ home, or, if she is very young, she may remain with her parents until they deem her old enough to depart. A prepubescent bride usually stays in her natal home until puberty, after which a separate consummation ceremony is held to mark her departure for her conjugal home and married life. The poignancy of the bride’s weeping departure for her new home is prominent in personal memory, folklore, literature, song, and drama throughout India.

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:11 am
x

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:59 am
@ANO, I couldn’t quite get it what the hell you are getting at. You seem to have conviniently omitted WEST BENGAL , there is no cousin marriage full stop. Fundamental to any devoloped society is that “THEY HAVE FREED THEIR WOMEN , PARTICULARLY PROTESTANY SOCIETIES, THE RESULTS ARE THERE TO SEE”. In breeding is bound to propagate genetic illness , just look at animal kingdom Mmore CROSS BREEDING , more healthier the offspring.In India the possibility is limitless.

[Reply]
Bobby

A good expose on the fraud that goes under the name of “vedic mathematics”

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/art-culture/the-fraud-of-vedic-maths

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Mr Bobby

There is no Sankaracharya Mutt in Mysore; unless the author meant the Southern “peetham” in Sringeri, called Sharada peetham. (one of the four founded by Adi Sankara, the other three being in Dwaraka, Puri, and Badrinath).

The mentioned Bharatitirtha was never the Jagadguru of Sringeri Mutt.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Bobby

Many thanks for this article; its essential rationale applies to many Nationalist (jingoistic) contributions made here in this blog.

In order to re-construct our national pride, we are prepared to clutch at any straw (clap trap) we can find.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
@Bobby,
I read that.
Yes, if that is what is being touted as Vedic maths; I agree. It is hogwash

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Everything Hindu is hogwash where as Islamic BS is all science.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Well, there is a strong mathematical trdition from Vararuchi to Varahamihira to Aryabhatta and Bhaskara etc in ancient times. The Madhava School in Malabar flourished from early 1400 to late 1700 with brilliant mathematicians like Madhava Sngagrama, Somayaji, Nilakanta etc. with major contributions to Calculus and Infinite Series (much before Newton). Research and investigation should be done as to why the school just “stopped” in 1700, why its theories did not propagate to the west (or were there theories stolen and used by the West? ) I do not know whether the “root” of all this work was in the Vedas, I am sure experts will analyze and determine.

Anyway, these ancient giants have been followed by equally great mathematicians. Ramanujam, Chandrasekhar, Abhayankar, Srinivas Varadan, Karmakar etc in the recent past; Anil Neroda, Thomas Kaliath, Aravind Rajaraman, Chandrasekhar Khere, Sandeep Trivedi etc now — we all can be proud of Indian Mathematicians and their contributions.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am
@Binoy Hegde,
The trouble, and this is according to the article- I don’t really know, and don’t care overmuch- is that this glorious tradition in maths is not what the Loony right wants to talk about. A lot of it probably has to do with lack of knowledge and hence appreciation of what is significant and what is not in mathematics.
Now, all countries do a lot of chest-thumping re’ their traditions and past culture and so on. Where the article went wrong, IMO, was in saying, seemingly, that there is nothing in our history and/ or culture or contributions to science that we need to be proud of. That was not kosher.
In an earlier post, months back, Bobby and I had crossed swords on Vedic Maths. My point to him that time was that if by glorifying Vedic Maths, my daughters can be made to feel pride in their ancient traditions and culture, I am all for it. I modify my stand to the extent that those glorifying must take the trouble of glorifying the right things- some of which you have highlighted.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
well it beats killing the infidels any time.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Well, is “Vedic mathematics” vedic or not who cares?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2004/08/64575

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am
@Vinay,
interesting link; made more interesting by the fact that it is written by Manu Joseph- ha, ha!

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
If there is a short cut to success, we are ready to adopt it from anywhere. Vedic or Bodhi, Abacus – Chinese or Japanese; as long as they yield results. Otherwise who will bother about ancient Vedas or Bhagvad Gita ? We have already binned “Satyam Vada”, “Dharmam Chara”; they were also Vedic.

shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
@vinay , the most important lines from that article
Two-thirds of IIT’s graduates leave for America, augmenting the thousands already there who contribute to the institute’s reputation. American colleges and industry greatly favor students from IIT,
This is what i had posted some weeks ago , about the article in the esteemed journal NATURE , which said IIT,s ARE INDIA’S MOST GENEROUS GIFT TO AMERICA.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
well guys after ww2 now into prehistory. went to the vedic maths ARTICLE.it looks quite interesting really a bit like SODOKU. I wont mind knowing a bit more about it, but that’s about it. Now Vedic maths is a crappy term ,just like in schools rather than having geometry ,should it have been called GREEK MATHS,for most of geometry originated and we studied Pythagorus theorem in such gusto. ONLY AN IDIOT WILL SAY INDIA’S CONTRIBUTION TO “EARLY” SCIENCE is nothing to be proud of.
Again i hate making wild personal claims unless i can back up with supportive evidence. I suggest bloggers read “THE WONDER THAT WAS INDIA” by Prof A.L. Basham ,a hundreed percent GORA english , thus will mute all the self loathing gaddar lefties. I do not have the book right here with me ,but i vaguely remember the opening page contains a quote fron a SYRIAN MATHEMATICIAN circa 800AD , which is something like this “You have heard about the greeks and romans about their knowledge in maths , wait till you see the Hindu mind at work.
Also I have,( dont know about other bloggers) , studied SREEDARACHARYA’S method of solving QUADRATIC EQUATION in school ,it was in our text book of maths.

[Reply]
shan

@Bobby , This is in response to your post today, I could have clicked the reply and left my answer trailing yours. But being of a particular vocation , where “chicken out” is treated with contempt, I like to play straight. I want the bloggers judge for themselves
You have said you do serious reading in contrast to me , well and good BUT WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE , In my case I have given you name of the books , author , page number , what more you want me to do.
Next is about the guy who commented on the very popular CPM slogan , Larai korey bachtey chai(Want to live by fighting all the way) to which a guy commented “why cant we just live without recourse to any fighting”. You said he is my friend and you could and did bracket us in the same class .
Now to enlighten you that guy is not known to me , he is Tathagato (one of buddha’s name) Roy , brother of Saugoto Roy , now minister in Delhi.I recalled those word from an article he had written in the bengali periodical DESH.
Next is the current state in IRAQ,you have chosen to ignore my lines”WHAT HAS HAPPENED HAS HAPPENED, is now if the jihadi terrorism stops………….”
JUST REFLECT ON JAPAN, two atom bombs were dropped , AMERICANS WROTE THEIR CONSTITUTION and wrote in a manner that will be akin to bringing out a modified Quoran called New Quoran , a mirror of New Testament. YANKS excised the central plank of pre war japanese constitution THAT KING (CHRYSANTHEMUM THRONE) IS DESCENDED FROM GOD”. They did americanise Japan like hell , that is why Baseball , and Americal football(Yankee Rugby) are the dominant sport in japan .Now let me” throw the book” at you. this is from the autobiography of AKIO MORITA , named “Made in Japan”.Page 41.”At the end of war , only 10% of the city’s streetcars were running . There were only sixty buses in running condition and just and just …….. sickness was rampant and the TUBERCULOSIS RATE WAS SOMEWHERE 22%. hospitals were short of everything , including bandages cotton and disinfectants.
Now page 51,
The occupation authorities had taken over control of the broacasting stations and the ENGLISH LANGUAGE could now be taught in the schools again and used in the air after being banned during the war years.IDEAS OF DEMOCRACY AND INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND EGALITARIANISM were planted on very fertile soil after so many years of thought control and MILITARY DICTATORSHIP.
Now the virtues of British Rule, i have quoted RAJA RAM MOHAN ROY , considered the father of modern india, perhaps you would like to dismiss him as a toady.By the way the above quote owes a gratitude to nirad Choudhuri from whose article it has been derived, the same Nirad Choudhuri (who incidentally mentions that he had read 5000 books in his life time including french History in french, unlike the rest of us who read in english). nirad Choudhuri dedicated his first book “Autobiography of an Unknown indian” with these lines(if my memory serves me correct)
To the british empire , who conferred subjecthood , but withheld citizenship , who formed , shaped and quickened all that was good and living in us.
in your vocation one false move ,may cause errors which you can go back and rectify , in my vocation one false move and there is no going back, this is the margin of error we work with which I tried in vain to impress on the salesman from delhi.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
@ Shan,

Just answer this question. Since you think that America did the right thing by bombing Japan, then please tell me, would you say the same if any of your dear and loved ones were in that city on that day.

Would you say: “well even though my parents, kids wife were all burnt to death-their skin literally evaporating, what has happened has happened- its all fine and worth it”.

I ask you again- Is that a price YOU are ready to pay for a more “advanced technological civilization”, or is it something you prescribe only for far away people like Iraqis and Japanese.

I wont reply to any of your hypocritical BS unless you tell me the answer to this question.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
To expect consistency in any country’s foreign policy – above all the USA – is being naive.

USA is supporting democracy in Iraq, but not in Saudi Arabia. That is the reason as to why many learned people in the Muslim world mis-trust USA’s REAL intentions.

USA, created CONTRAs in Nicaragua to keep a Dictator in power. Popular revolutionaru movement was opposed by the US.

There are many examples like this.

So the question – within the broad context of this blog – is why is it that US is not doing anything with regards to democracy in Saudi Arabia, but is trying very hard to destabilise a democratically elected Iranian Government.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Ravi

You are correct in your statement about expecation of consistency – countries do what is supposedly good for their country at that particular time – US embracing Pakistan (a dictatorship) through early 1990s while keeping a distance from India (a democracy) because of the cold war politics is another example, along with many examples you provided.

Now regarding Saudi Arbia vis-a-vis Iran .. Here are my observations –

1) American public will not take another war (however, one may be packaged and shoved into them)
2) First and formost, the Iran push is done by the same people who wanted to go to Iraq (neoconsevatives).
3) Most of these people are connected to Pro Israel lobbies. The only one thing US congress (repubs and dems) unanimously supports is Israrel and its security. On Israel, you have 435 congressmen and 100 senators voting in unison
4) Many (policy makers and public) do not consider Saudi Arabia as a country. They consider it as an oil reservoir, and in time oil will run out and whatever “country” is there will perish. They do not consider Saudi Arabia in the same canvas as , say, a Russia, India, France, and, yes Iran. Iran is considered as a country with deep historical roots and culture; the pro Israeli policy makers consider Iran as the only threat to Israeel, and no other Arab Muslim countries are considered a threat.
5) I do not think US is tryng to destabilize Iran. Obviously they do not want Iran to have a bomb; they feel that will create an arms race (Sunni-Shia countries) in an unstable region, and will impact the oil flow. Obviously Israel feels that Iran will use the bomb against them.
6) Stupid Sunni Muslim countries(I have to use that word) obviously are supporting US on this. The wikileaks have excerpts from Saudi and Bahrain and all those little kings as to why US is not doing anything to eliminate the Iran nuclear program. They are with Israel on this. Their fear is that Shias will take over middle east if Iran gets the bomb.
7) The destabilization you mentioned may have something to do with their support to the oppostion leader in the last year election.. They felt youngsters wanted the opposition leaders and youngsters are more pro US/freedom and aginst the Mulla suppression. They are very aware that any forceful removal of nuclear material/crippling the producrtion facilities will backfire; that the “pro” American crowd will turn against America since nationalistic pride will come in play.
Although Obama and the defence department and military leaders do not want to bomb, the rhetoric on the right, the Israeli lobby pressures, congressional politics etc may force the Obama team to do something more than the mere economic sanctions. Let us all hope it does not turn into a war (Sunnis are with Israelis on this, they want a war!)

shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
@ravi, only a circum plonker will beleive that USA WENT TO IRAQ TO SPREAD DEMOCACY, they or precisely ONLY TWO MEN (watch oliver stone’s “W”) is resposible DICK HEAD CHENEY AND SWINESFELD are the architect of this vile project , egged on by the kike gang of NeoCons.
The dick head’s maqsad was OIL and HALIBURTON , bush was just a rubber stamp. It was a perverse revenge for 9/11, and kikes wanted to send a message to rest of middle east. That doesn’t mean every one supported this project , infact i totally beleive Oliver stone , who shows colin powell thumping on the table in fit of rage during the meeting. perhaps need to keep in mind current president VOTED AGAINST THE WAR. Watch The Hurt Locker , ORDINARY TEEN AGE AMERICANS ARE PAYING A HEAVY PRICE, for the vile decision of these war criminals.

Ravi Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
SHAN

A few of us here have long suspected that you may have mastered the art of reading, but you have a way to go before you can UNDERSTSAND what you read.

Just in the last hour or so:

You have attacked me for a point I did not make. You imagined it.

I said, “USA is supporting democracy in Iraq” and not that USA went into Iraq in order to establish rule of democracy there. You just imagined I said that.

Similarly, you wrote a large paragraph in response to a very specific question. It singularly failed to answer the question. The question had to be asked again in much simpler words.

Many times before, here in these blogs you have submitted copious amounts of text which constitutes little more than a rant of a right wing politician. Always failing to make any point what so ever.

shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Binoy, very clear and succint articulation of american intentions,also foreign policy changes with changed circumstances , change of govt in democratic countries. Like cameron has decided it is not going to lick US arse as vigorously as during previous years.Similarly Neo Con’s dont have much sway (If OBAMA’S WARS are to be beleived) in the current administration , in fact hardly any.
BUT CAN YOU PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US THE BLOGGERS WHY TERRORISTAN WITH A PROVEN HISTORY OF NUKE DISSEMINATION ,AND CALLING IT ISLAMIC BOMB IS TAKEN THAT SERIOUSLY BY NEOCON LOBBY.

shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Sorry Typo, it should read “WHY IT IS NOT TAKEN THAT SERIOUSLY”

Ravi Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Bobby

While you are waiting for an answer.

There is a saying among those who live in Nai Sardak in Karachi (!).

Aapne ghar lage to hai aag, doosre ke ghar lage to hai basantar devta.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Hi LeT boy.

Rajeev Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Rabiuddin Bin laden

shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
@Bobby, what did i say , chicken out is held in utter contempt in my vocation.So i will not hide nor retreat, BUT PLEASE PLEASE READ CAREFULLY AND IN FULL and i am putting forward the lines againSame with Iraq, it was a vile act , many americans have called Bush a hitler , I think the presidential contender (IT magnate, i cannot recall his name) during the clinton bush election, called Bush Jnr a hitler, My feeling is what has happened has happened ,now if there were no jihadi activity………
As to japan ,it is horrendous so far individuals of hiroshima and nagasaki are concerned , BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY GOOD FOR THE NATION AND COUNTRY CALLED JAPAN and REST OF THE WORLD , for that definitele brought the WW2 to a swift end.
this is the same dilemma , people of my vocation face everyday, a person with severe injury to tibia , shattered into smitherens, what do you do , try to fix it , that will take upto 14 operations over a period of five years , then he will be left with a full leg but also with chronic pain , or do you have COURAGE TO AMPUTATE , which was one editorial that appeared in BMJ several yrs ago.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Shan

Do you think you answered the question asked?

Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
@ Shan, your reply says many things about you, but I will let that pass. Right now I wont let you chicken out which is what you are doing. You have not answered the question, so I will put it to you in another way.

Imagine that the people you love the most were in Hiroshima on that day. Imagine what they would go through, and their grandchildren even if they survived the hell.

Now imagine that YOU had the power to change the course of history, if you wanted. What would you do.

(A) Stop the bombing

or

(B) Let it happen because its worth it

I would request you to answer by typing just one alphabet only either A or B

shan Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
@Bobby,in your vocation IMAGINATION plays a big role , in my vocation it will be called Schizophrenia , hallucination , which is perception of something which does not exists.
However let me reiterate again
As to japan ,it is horrendous so far individuals of hiroshima and nagasaki are concerned.
Now given the choice bomb hiroshima , nagasaki or let the war fester wiping out HALF OF HUMANITY , the choice is simple really despite all the emotion and sentiments surreptitiously packed into your query.

ram autar Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
oh, btw, America is the number one do gooder in the world. They are also a bad gooder, but not that bad; theer are worse actors. So, all in all, I will take America any time

raju tell me what good they have done to world.people of japan,vietnam ,philipines afghanistan,iraq ,
latin america,red indians,all are thankful to them.iraq they destroyed,afghanistan is on verge of destruction.gcc is on their mercy.indians are forced to buy to buy weapons by diverting development budgets.indian jews are the only supporter of this evil empire,apart from rulers of middle est countries.life of isreal is not very long.villian is beaten at the end.with zoinists ,brhmnst will also be finished for ever.

Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
@ Shan,

The answer is clear, no matter how much you try to wiggle out of it. Nevertheless, let me now also try to get you out of your ignorance. The bomb had nothing to do with winning the war. The **** were already considering surrendering.

Any guy with even a little understanding of history of WW2 would have known that. But thats too much to ask for from some one, who gets his knowledge from the hurt locker and other hollywood movies.

So its no wonder that you think that America had the good of the world when it attacked Iraq and Japan- Thats what happens when “rational” people learn history from movies and comic books.

Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
the **** was ****… dont know why it was blocked.

Bobby Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I mean j a p s!!!

Raju Kurien Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Nobody said America invaded Iraq for the good of the world. Shan did not say that. You invented that.

And regarding Japan, US bombed after ultimatums. The surrender idea is another concoction you marxists bring up. Hirohito surrendered only after bombing.

Now,as your hero Mao tse Dong will say, Japanese were no angels. I am glad that Japanese did not cross over to India from China.

Could it have been ended without bombing? Anybody can come up with various what ifs; but only the leaders living in that crucible knew exactly (?) the risks and alternatives. Second guessing is easy; any body can do it..

Raju Kurien Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
oh, btw, America is the number one do gooder in the world. They are also a bad gooder, but not that bad; theer are worse actors. So, all in all, I will take America any time

ram autar Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
falluja a small city in iraq was gifted with more tnt than nagasaki and hiroshima together and then
shan and hegde are saying that deformed childs are due to marriage.how ill informed they are.

Ashish Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:36 am
@Raju Kurien,
If I am not mistaken, there were credible intelligence reports of other countries trying to develop nuclear bombs as well and this could well have forced Eisenhour’s hands.
@Bobby,
let me interject myself in this cross-fire and attempt to answer the question. My answer would be A; irrespective of whether I had people I loved living in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

But, Bobby, I am a softy- I would not be able to handle a tough job like that of being the President of US- especially at wartime.
And, the decision to bomb is not about a personal choice of “to do or not to do”; many if not all the national leaders who cheerfully send people to war, could not personally kill even a goat- forget a human being. So, your argument that is cornering Shan (much as I enjoy the spectacle) is inherently flawed because it establishes nothing. If the bombing was just one man’s (Eisenhour’s) decision, then you have to excuse the rest of the American people, the polity and the government. And, if it was a collective governement decision, then you can not pose a personal moral conundrum and claim victory.

Bobby Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
@ Ashish, If you remove morality out of the equation, then there is nothing terrible in what al-qaeda did on 9/11. You cant have one set of rules for “Bin Laden” and another for the American leadership. Morality is the issue.

Its by now completely established in scholarly literature that that the bombing had nothing to do with ending the war. It was all about America sending a message to the rest of the world that they were the most powerful force on the planet. The Japanese were ready to stop the war- but they wanted some leeway and not an unconditional surrender, which the Americans insisted- simply to show off who was the boss.

It was just a matter of time, maybe at most a month- The war was over. Moreover, after Hiroshima, they bombed Nagasaki again. Why?

If anybody thinks this has anything to do with winning the war, then please read the following article and the references cited in it. This is a famous article by Howard Zinn- American Historian, and author of the famous book- “A peoples history of the United States”.

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/cprinterfriendly.php?storyid=128

Ashish Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 12:14 am
@Bobby,
thank you for the reference; I could not spend much time today on it- but will come back to it when I get some time; the article deserves it.
It has been a fascinating discussion; I read up this link
http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Why%20Truman%20Bombed%20Hiroshima.htm

On your last post now.
See, my point was not about negating the role of morals. I was merely saying that as a debating tool, “would you do that personally?” is useful to wrong-foot your opponent; but logically is not sound; for reasons that I wrote.
ram autar

a report Rise in Birth Defects
In 2010, Doctors in the Iraqi city of Falluja reported a high level of birth defects, with some blaming weapons used by the US after the Iraq invasion.[45] Now, the level of heart defects among newborn babies is said to be 13 times higher than in Europe

[Reply]
shan

@Bobby, there was a ARSENAL CHELSEA game going on , and you can’t expect me to come to this blog , however the game ended on a happy note for me. This is one incredible facet of this country, the people will support their local team even if it is in the 4th division, this roottedness is incredible , say maclesfield playing against Man United or whoever they will always support Maclesfield, that is why every club has a song , the best is Liverpool YOU WILL NEVER WALK ALONE. This roottedness is what we need in India , but that wont happen so long casteism is there.
Now JAPANESE SURRENDER. I am aware of the “conspiracy theory” that you mention. Apparently according to the BBC documentary , an american official in washington hushed up the letter and delivered it to the President AFTER THE BOMB WAS DROPPED .
Now lets talk about the japanese character and see if that is plausible, or the surrender was actually after the bombing. We get japanese TV in UK with English subtitle. This is japanese food. A fish is cleaned and then it is stuffed with riceand vinegar and then the fish is kept in a earthenware pot which is now filled to brim with salt. THIS IS NOW BURIED UNDER THE GROUND FOR SIX MONTHS FOR FERMENTATION, Yes they actually eat this after six months , no wonder there is such a high rate of Gastric cancer.
Remember KAMIKAZE , these are Forerunner of 9/11 style attack where planes are used like missiles on a suicide mission. Do you think these people will just surrender.
NOW LETS HEAR FROM THE HORSES MOUTH , AKIO MORITA page 32, “The thing that concerned me a great deal then was that MILITARY WOULD NOT GIVE UP THIS WAR NO MATTER HOW BADLY IT WAS GOING…….A LAST DITCH BATTLEGROUND FOR THE FANATICAL MILITARY.
PAGE37, SOME ARMY OFFICERS KILLED THEMSELVES TO PROTEST THE SURRENDER , BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THE ARMIES WERE STILL UNDEFEATED…

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 9:45 am
@ Shan,

If the Hiroshima Nagasaki bombing can be justified, then virtually any act in human history can be justified. That bombing was the single most evil act in the history of mankind. If you have it in you to justify that, then 9/11, 26/11, and every other act is justifiable.

Your views show a lot about your education.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Well, you have called it war. That is what precisely US is doing; bomb them in the plains and hills and mountains, bomb those who do not like infidels..bomb those bas..trds who kill infidels

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:53 am
zoinist generals of american armerican armies were christians and muslims both.muslims never killed infidels.wars for land.in india brhmns and rajput were their allies.at the end war consumed the
perpetuators.american people are running to jungle and taking shelter in canada.now running middle east for contract and jobs.

ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
zoinist generals of american armerican armies were killing christians and muslims both.muslims never killed infidels.wars were for land.in india brhmns and rajput were their allies.in iraq at the end war consumed the
perpetuators.american people are running to jungle and taking shelter in canada.now running to middle also for east for contract and jobs.

ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
singh infidels hate each others more than anybody else.

ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
september 11 was planned and executed by zoinists.where the bodies of passenger.wtc was full smoke no flame ,firefighters reached there in miutes.
pentagon also same story.
with hit of the plane 100 story tower with 200 million tons of steel cannot fell in 57 minute.75 %of casaualites are from people of indian subcontinent.it is the same story repeated again.jews killed a jew(jesus christ).follower of jesus killed jews for 2000 yrs.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
@Bobby your views shows a massive capacity for OVERSIMPLIFICATION and muddle.

[Reply]
shan

@Bobby, oh yes it also shows your “selective reading” of WW2 history. Perhaps you would like to comment on RAPE OF NANKING ,it wasn’t any YANKS involved. Also are you aware of KOREAN COMFORT WOMEN than the japanese military provided to its rank and file. Look it up in the internet.If you have any trace of unbiased(rationality) judgement , then you will concede it was a neccasary evil.

[Reply]
Ravi

Hiroshima & Morality.

Here is a balanced view. It does not asnwer the question in terms of A or B, but it does well in laying down what needs to be considered before opting for A OR B.

____________________________________________________

On August 6, 1945, a U.S. bomber, the Enola Gay, dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. Three days later, a second atomic bomb destroyed the city of Nagasaki. Estimates of the number killed in both cities range as high as 210,000. Thousands more later succumbed to radiation disease. These two acts, authorized by President Harry S. Truman, raised profound ethical and legal issues.

The possibility of an atomic bomb had been revealed by Albert Einstein in a 1939 communication to President Franklin Roosevelt. Under the code name Manhattan Project, three bombs were built, and a test bomb was detonated at Alamogordo, New Mexico on June 16, 1945. Some Manhattan Project scientists urged a demonstration of the new weapon before its military use, but President Truman, advised by a high-level committee, ordered its use against Japan as soon as possible.

Truman’s decision came at the end of a war of escalating brutality. The Japanese occupation of Nanking, China, in 1937, had been marked by extreme cruelty. Japan’s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor; the wanton killing of U.S. prisoners by Japanese soldiers in the notorious 1942 “Bataan Death March”; and the ferocious Japanese resistance on Iwo Jima and Okinawa were all part of the context of the president’s action. So, too, was the racist wartime propaganda, purveyed in editorials, songs, movies, and political cartoons, that had portrayed all Japanese as apes, vermin, and rats—subhuman creatures to whom the usual standards of ethical behavior did not apply.

Furthermore, throughout the twentieth century, new technologies—tanks, poison gas, aerial bombing, and rockets—had vastly increased war’s destructive potential, including the mass killing of civilians. In World War II, German V-1 and V-2 rocket attacks on English cities had taken a heavy civilian toll. As the war became increasingly ferocious in 1944 and 1945, British and U.S. bombing raids on major German cities created firestorms that killed hundreds of thousands from blast, fire, and asphyxiation. The devastating February 1945 attack on the beautiful city of Dresden—a city of little military significance—epitomized the massive death and destruction caused by these raids. These were attacks deliberately calculated to produce indiscriminate devastation, to “break the morale” of the target population. In Japan, sixty-four cities endured massive air raids prior to Hiroshima, with casualties estimated at 300,000 killed and some 340,000 severely injured. A March 1945 raid on Tokyo killed an estimated 100,000. The deliberate targeting of civilians, and even the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands in a single raid, in short, antedated the atomic bomb. The only thing new about the events of August 6–9, 1945 was the technology employed.
As Americans assessed the moral implications of the mass killing of civilians in World War II, culminating at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the so-called “Just War” doctrine offered some benchmarks. From St. Augustine onward, theologians and ethicists had sought to place moral limits on war. The “Just War” doctrine holds, for example, that the means employed in war must not produce greater evil than the evil one seeks to eliminate. This doctrine also insisted that noncombatants, as well as wounded soldiers and prisoners, must be treated humanely. Pope John Paul II declared in 1995: “[T]he direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being is always gravely immoral.” By definition, this precludes deliberate attacks on civilian populations. As the Roman Catholic catechism sums up the doctrine: “Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities . . . is a crime against God and man.” Other religious and ethical traditions express similar principles, declaring that even for a nation waging a legitimate war, the moral law remains in force. Having justice on one’s side does not mean that victory by any means possible is ethically defensible.

Well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki, these principles had been swept aside as the concept of “total war” had become the Allies’ guiding principle. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, by the magnitude and the instantaneous nature of the destruction, raised the question of ethical legitimacy in the starkest possible way. The “Just War” doctrine also holds, for example, that every possible means of a nonviolent resolution must be exhausted before the resort to war. By extension, this means that once a war is underway, each new step in the escalation of violence should be undertaken only after all possibility of ending the conflict has been explored. Much of the debate over Hiroshima and Nagasaki has focused on precisely this point: Did the American government exhaust all possible means for ending the war before destroying these two cities and snuffing out tens of thousands of human lives?

Many historians have concluded that the answer is no. Japan was a defeated nation in August 1945, its war-making capacity shattered. The Japanese government was divided, with influential figures seeking an exit from a hopeless war. The Japanese government had asked the Soviet Union to act as an intermediary in the surrender negotiations—a fact known to Washington since U.S. cryptologists had broken the Japanese diplomatic code. Many Japanese saw the survival of the Emperor as a key issue—a point the Americans conceded after the war, despite their demand for unconditional surrender. Further, the invasion of Japan, should the war have continued, was not scheduled until November 1, 1945—three months in the future.

Confronting these facts, many have questioned the morality of dropping two atomic bombs before all possibility of ending the war by negotiation had been explored. Of course, no one knows for certain that Japan’s surrender could have been achieved through negotiations. The point is that this option was never tried. The fact that Japan surrendered five days after the Nagasaki bombing, often cited by defenders of Truman’s action, is irrelevant to the question of whether the war could have been ended by other means. From an ethical perspective, this is the crucial issue.
Truman always insisted that his sole consideration in ordering the use of the atomic bomb was to save American lives, but other factors may have been in play. At the February 1945 Yalta conference, and again at the Potsdam conference in June, Soviet premier Joseph Stalin had promised to enter the Pacific War within three months of Germany’s surrender. Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945, and Moscow declared war on Japan on August 8. Some evidence suggests that Truman’s decision was influenced by his desire to force Japan’s surrender before Russia became a significant factor in the outcome. These speculations have a bearing on how one assesses the ethics of the Hiroshima bombing. The Nagasaki bombing raises further questions: Once Hiroshima had been destroyed, did the United States wait a sufficient time for the Japanese government to assimilate this terrible new reality before destroying a second city?

All these questions have shaped the discourse over how the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be viewed. Was it a legitimate act of war, or does it fall into the category of a crime against humanity? This debate arose in the earliest moments of the Atomic Age. President Truman, predictably, insisted that the bomb was justified, since it prevented the U.S. casualties that an invasion of Japan would have entailed. Many Americans, then and since, have agreed. But the alternative view has also found its supporters. Immediately after the Hiroshima bombing, for example, the future secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, then an official of the Federal Council of Churches, telegraphed Truman urging him, on moral grounds, not to drop a second atomic bomb. In The Challenge of Peace (1983), the American Roman Catholic bishops, addressing the larger ethical issues posed by the nuclear arms race, came close to condemning the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings as morally indefensible. In 1995 and again in 2003, proposals by the Smithsonian Institution to display the Enola Gay triggered further discussion of this question, which continues to trouble the nation’s conscience, raising ethical issues of the gravest sort.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 12:20 am
@Ravi,
Just pasted a link to my reply to Bobby; re-pasting.
http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Why%20Truman%20Bombed%20Hiroshima.htm
What stuck me was that hundreds of thousands of Japanese were dying in air-raids on Japanese cities anyway- and probably would have continued to die if the war was not abruptly halted. In a way, it was probably a blessing (and please, please don’t jump on me, this is past midnight and I am unable to coax my brain to find a less offensive term for the context) for the survivors.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 4:07 am
@Ashish, you may well have a strong argument, and is corroborated by what Akio Morita writes.

[Reply]
shan

@ashish, your lines
@Raju Kurien,
If I am not mistaken, there were credible intelligence reports of other countries trying to develop nuclear bombs as well and this could well have forced Eisenhour’s hands
I will be extreemely extreemely grateful IF YOU PROVIDE PROPER EVIDENCE to support your claim , not hearsay , not intuition , but like an academic approach. i am aware you are far removed from the academic world. I write this with hunility as i am interested to learn. As far I am aware , germany had naerly devoloped MISSILES that they could deploy, ATOM BOMB was far away in the horizon , and japan and Italy had no such project worth its name, though an italian(Fermi) played a huge role in the manhattan project.
I am aware einstein had conveyed to the us president that this bomb is feasable according to the THEORY and he feared KNOWING HIS COMPATRIOTS (GERMANS) in the GERMAN UNIVERSITIES and also DENMARK (under Nazi occupation), if they STUMBLE UPON this theory or possibilty ,it will be a DOOMSDY.

[Reply]
Ashish Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:56 pm
I should have been more careful with my words; the bomb project (Manhattan) was devised with Germany as the target- and that was how most scientists recruited for the project understood it to be. Many of the scientists in the project were European emigre’s and having experienced Nazism, were determined to help defeat it. It was also their belief that they were in a race with time against German scientists for the atomic bomb.
But by the time they had successfully tested a bomb, the rout of Germany was complete.
Many feel that the atomic bomb was always meant to be tested on Japan- and Germany was just a smokescreen to drive the project forward.
My error was to ascribe Truman’s (not Eisenhour; silly me!) decision to bomb on the original grounds on which the project was conceived.

[Reply]
shan

@to the one who cuts and pastes in CHUNKS , these lines
This doctrine also insisted that noncombatants, as well as wounded soldiers and prisoners, must be treated humanely. Pope John Paul II declared in 1995:
and these lines
Well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki, these principles had been swept aside as the concept of “total war” had become the Allies’ guiding principle
the time zones have been muddled , as to showing a tad honesty in approach , would the above Chunk paster , please refer to the observation of AKIO MORITO founder of SONY corp , who served in the Japanese Army during that period , and knew about the military a tad more than arm chair academics.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
As I mentioned, armchair historians an academic can debate about motivations of a particular action – but profound actions of war and peace are the results of anguishing thought process of the leaders of the countries. Nobody knows what went through Truman’s mind; and every body knows whatever he did, considering the grave destruction, in his mind, he did it for USA and for humanity. Everything else is just academic.

Rather than debating what happened 65 years ago when none of us was not even born, let us ensure that Islamofascism and the resultant counterattacks do not bring in bombs in the equation. Let us hope nobody has to obliterate Pakistan to destroy the Islamofascists and their support. .Lets hope sympathisers in Pakistani army/ISI do not give dirty bombs to the followers of OBL/Al Sawhri. Lets hope the terrorists do not get access to the AQ Khan network.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
@raju kurien, that’s a lot of hope!! to hope for ,but as they say , we live in hope.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
@ Raju Kurien(apologist for the powerful)

“but profound actions of war and peace are the results of anguishing thought process of the leaders of the countries. Nobody knows what went through Truman’s mind; and every body knows whatever he did, considering the grave destruction, in his mind, he did it for USA and for humanity”

yeah just like the anguishing thoughts going on in Bin Laden’s mind ….

The reason why you use such flowery language for the US president, is because he won the war. Had Bin Laden managed to demolish the US and take over power, opportunists like you would have been use the same flowery language for 9/11… How Bin Laden, manged to overcome his deep anguishing thought process….for the love of humanity and life and the solar system- the universe… and what not….

Had Hitler, won the World War, then “as s lickers for the powerful” like you, would have been singing bhajans for him too.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Bobby — no, I maintain Nazi germany policy was evil – Hitler was bad; there is still confusion and discussion on whether he knew the extent of Jewish killings and camps, and whether Nai leaders hid that from him. Those actions are abhorable; whoever di it , orderd it are all evil.

No, I will not sing praise to OBL if he comes out as a victor. I do not want to go back to the sands of Arabia of 650s. I want to live in a pluralistic country/world; not a wreteched, murder loving, death embracing, medieval Islamist world.

OBL, Al Sawheri and all the Isamofascists are not fighting for any people or country; they are fighting to impose a living style and religious philosophy on all. There will not be iPAds and Aspirins in that world; only dates and Qurans. No life giving labs of Stanford and Hopkins, only the dreary woman killing theologies of Deobands.

ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
DEAR FRIEND ,

Times of India, the reigning flagship of the big-mouthed Brahminical braggarts, itself has admitted we are good only at boasting without giving any proof.
A Times staffer from Bangalore deputed to Shanghai (China), where the world’s biggest “World Expo 2010” is going on, says she was shocked to find that the Pakistan Pavilion had beaten India’s which was drawing no crowds. All that she found in the empty Indian stall was nothing but street food and handicrafts. (TOI June 23, 2010). What a shame.
The Indian officials at the Expo, all upper castes, are not bothered about India’s shame. They have gone there to make maja at the govt. expense (RS. 41 crores).
Media monopoly: The Shanghai World Expo-2010 is drawing peoples from all over the world and according Mrs. Hillary Clinton, the arch enemy of China who visited the Expo, she had never seen an exhibition like this in her life.
The TOI reporter perhaps does not know that India in fact has nothing to show except its Kamasutra. But the Brahminical India puts on a big show worldwide by giving false report of “India shining”, “jumping” and all sorts of pomp and pageantry. When the Western media controlled by the Jews and the domestic media in the hands of the “Jews of India”, paints a rosy picture of India the world simply believes it. That is all the rulers want.
The oppressed 85% of Indians have no media to tell the Plain Truth

Ashish Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 12:24 am
@Ram Autar
did the TOI/ Hindu give the caste composition/ break-up of the official delegation to World Expo 2010?

tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 2:46 am
they all were grass eating monkeys.detailes u will have soon.

ram autar Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Windows Live™Home
?

——————————————————————————–

US experts to train upper caste youths on how to loot India

Bangalore: “Hindu India” is guided and shaped by Brahminical thoughts, its reigning philosophy. M.K. Gandhi, the Gujarati Bania, hailed as the “Father of the nation” (not our nation) by the ruling upper castes (15%), finally died for Brahminism.
Such a “holy” country packed with “great brains”, “world famous intellectuals” now finally admits that its education system, manufactured by the same brain, has utterly failed.
The Hindu, India’s chief Brahminical daily (June 13, 2010) says top industrial bosses of India have asked the govt. to allow US universities to enter India. Why allow outsiders when our own “Brahmin brains” are the best in the world and have 150% monopoly on Indian education system from top to bottom?
No quality education in India: The Hindu report reveals that the Brahminical big brains have themselves admitted that they can’t offer “quality education”. That means India’s education system has been a thorough failure. Our “Khatri Sick” PM is a great admirer of the Brahminical big brains. And he will be too glad to open the gate to US educational institutions headed by top Jews, all brothers of “Jews of India”.
So apart from the financial sector, India will soon have collaboration with the Jews in the educational field also. That means India’ dying 400-odd universities will finally die. One by one the Brahminical rulers of India are handing over the country to Jews.
Not even a shaving blade made in India: The boasting rulers shout about “India shining”, jumping, world class standards but these fellows could not manufacture even the humble razor blade for shaving. We asked many top Brahminical bosses of industry to name the blade they use. They said Gillette which is a Western product.
Nothing is made in India except the humble but reliable bullock cart. Everything “foreign” is liked by our rulers — including the Scotch Whisky.
The secret behind allowing US educational institutions to enter India implies that the entire 85% of the Bahujan children will be neglected and the money diverted to equip the youth of he upper castes
Binoy Hegde

A gift that goes on giving — Of the 16 Muslims arrested last week in London for palnning terrorist attacks, nine have been booked for executing “preliminary” steps needed for a Mumbai 11/26 type attack. Of the nine, five are British Muslims of Bengla Deshi origin, and the remainder of Pakistani origin. There is one Desai also included; Shan can clarify if he is Hindu Desai or Muslim Desai.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 4:20 am
@binoy Hegde, these were hard core terrorist, they had carried out reconaissance mission , they had Al-Quaida magazine published from yemen with the lead article HOW TO MAKE A BOMB IN THE KITCHEN. Regarding this Desai , he has been mentioned as BROTHER OF SOME MIAH of bangladeshi origin and has three children . I couldn’t find anymore till I stumbled upon this from an Indian website. WHITES ONLY KNOW BROWN PEOPLE, THESE MORONS DONT KNOW DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HINDU OR MUSLIMS
on after the British authorities released the names of nine suspected terrorists yesterday, most Indian media reports rushed to tell us [1 2 3 4] without a hint of doubt or uncertainty, that one of them was “of Indian-origin.” Given that there was very little time for them to do background checks, they just assumed that a person going by the name of “Gurukanth Desai” must be a person of Indian origin.

They didn’t even google him up.

If they had, they would have found that Gurukant Desai is actually the name of the lead character in Mani Ratnam’s 2007 movie Guru. Gurukanth is an unusual first name for a person with the surname Desai. Gurukanth Desai is also an unusual name in a list in which the others are Abdul Malik Miah, Omar Sharif Latif, Mohammed Moksudur Rahman Chowdhury, Shah Mohammed Lutfar Rahman, Nazam Hussain, Usman Khan, Mohibur Rahman and Abul Bosher Mohammed Shahjahan.

It should have raised eyebrows and, at the very least, a qualifier indicating that he might be of Indian-origin. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. [The Calcutta Telegraph was an exception]

It turns out—as I pointed out on twitter yesterday—that Gurukanth Desai, 28 years old and a father of three, is Abdul Malik Miah’s brother and of Bangladeshi origin. The Hindu Gujarati name, taken off a Hindi film, was probably adopted to ward off suspicion.
now from an uk paper
eciding on their possible targets.

Police were said to have found a list of six sites, including the full postal address of the Stock Exchange, Boris Johnson’s London mayoral office and the US embassy.

Defendants were seen studying the tower of Big Ben, before inspecting Westminster Abbey, the London Eye and the Church of Scientology.

Al-Qaeda inspired books and leaflets, including instructions on making a pipe bomb, were also uncovered during the counter-terrorism operation.

Details of the alleged plot were outlined at City of Westminster magistrates’ court.

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The defendants, aged 19 to 28, were charged on Sunday with conspiracy to cause an explosion and conduct in preparation for acts of terrorism, having been arrested during early-morning raids in Cardiff, London and Stoke-on-Trent on Dec 20.

Piers Arnold, prosecuting, said the list of landmarks was found during police searches. “A handwritten note was found next to a computer with six contact details handwritten. They included the name, full address and post codes,” he said.

Among the details were the addresses of the Dean of St Paul’s Chapter House and of two rabbis at separate synagogues.

A reconnaissance trip is alleged to have been made from Trafalgar Square, down Whitehall to Westminster Bridge where Big Ben was studied intently.

A mobile phone had appeared to be raised and pointed towards the clock tower, the court heard.

Westminster Abbey, the Palace of Westminster and the London Eye were also closely examined before the Church of Scientology near Blackfriars was allegedly observed intently for some minutes.

The journey ended with a meal in a McDonald’s fast food restaurant, the court heard.

Police searches are said to have uncovered two issues of the al Qaeda extremist magazine Inspire, which is published in English in Yemen and is aimed at a Western audience. An article in issue one was entitled “How to make a pipe bomb in the kitchen of your mom”, while issue two included “What to expect in jihad” and “Tips for our brothers in the US”.

Other allegedly extremist material found was entitled 39 Ways which said it was intended to help people “serve and participate in jihad”.

Anwar Al-Awlaki, the extremist Yemeni preacher whose teachings support and encourage violent jihad against the West, is alleged to be the inspiration for the plot, the court heard. Between Oct 1 and Dec 20, the men are alleged to have downloaded information from the internet, discussed acts

of terrorism and tested explosives while “unlawfully and maliciously” conspiring to “endanger life or cause serious injury” with one or more explosions.

The first defendants to appear before Chief Magistrate Howard Riddle were Mohammed Chowdhury, 20, and Shah Rahman, 28, from east London.

Mr Chowdhury, wearing a white hooded top with shoulder-length hair and a goatee beard, was the first to confirm his date of birth and home address.

Neither he nor Mr Rahman, dressed in a pale blue T-shirt, black jacket and long beard, showed any emotion as the case against them was explained.

Their behaviour was in sharp contrast to that of Omar Latif and Abdul Miah, who appeared in the dock alongside Gurukanth Desai. Mr Latif, 26, and Mr Miah, 24 whispered and laughed while in the dock, with Mr Latif winking and giving a thumbs up as he was led from the court.

All three, from Cardiff, were in matching dark blue fleeces.

The court heard that Mr Miah, whose wife is expecting a baby in April, and Mr Desai, a 28-year-old father of three, were brothers.

The last four men to appear in court, including the youngest of the group, were from Stoke-on-Trent. Usman Khan, 19, Nazam Hussain, 25, Mohibur Rahman, 26, and Abul Shahjahan, 26, were brought into the dock in pairs, and listened impassively to the court proceedings.

All nine men, who are of Bangladeshi origin, were remanded in custody and are due to appear at the Old Bailey on Jan 14.

The counter-terrorism operation was led by the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit and supported by the Metropolitan Police and South Wales Police. Three other men – two from Cardiff and one from London – were released without charge.

Sue Hemming, head of the Crown Prosecution Service Counter Terrorism Division, said last night: “I have reviewed the evidence provided to me by the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit and I am satisfied it is sufficient for a realistic prospect of conviction, and it is in the public interest that these men should be charged with these offences.”
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8227193/Christmas-bomb-plot-nine-men-remanded-over-plan-to-blow-up-Big-Ben-and-Westminster-Abbey.html

[Reply]
ram autar

——————————————————————————–

RAJU KURIAN,
US defeated in Afghanistan
OUR CORRESPONDENT
Bangalore: The world’s sole super power, USA, is defeated in Afghanistan — defeated by a rag-tag terrorist outfit called Taliban. The same tribal Muslim force once defeated Soviet Russia, also a super power then.
Super power status threatened: The implication is al-Qaeda wins. Osama Bin Laden (if there is one as publicised world-wide by the US and the Jews controlling it) is laughing in his Tora Bora caves.
Brahminical rulers of India, tail of USA, are deeply worried because they have invested a lot in the corrupt Afghan ruler Karzai. Bribing him, they have been waging a war against Pakistan through Afghanistan. All is lost now.
USA ate dust in Iraq and now shit in Afghanistan. With this, the US sole super power status will start falling — along with the dollar alienation. Unless the Christian America frees itself from the zionist noose, its defeat will lead to disaster

[Reply]
Bobby

more on the bombings

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0806-25.htm

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
aaj kee taza khabar

New book claims Indian role in Nepal palace massacre
Indo-Asian News Service
Kathmandu, December 29, 2010First Published: 11:37 IST(29/12/2010)
Last Updated: 11:49 IST(29/12/2010)Share more…2 Comments Email print

A former senior military officer at Nepal’s royal palace, who drew flak for the massacre of King Birendra and nine others in 2001, is now rattling new skeletons with his memoir. Gen Bibek Shah, who rose from being the aide de camp of the king to becoming military secretary in the Narayanhity royal palace in Kathmandu, has opened a can of worms with his book, Maile dekheko darbar (The court as I saw it).

The 599-page book, the author says, is based on his dairy and observations, especially during the nearly four years that he served as military secretary, first to King Birendra and then, to his successor, King Gyanendra.

Shah says King Birendra, though a constitutional king, wanted to modernise the army and was seeking to buy “ultra modern” firearms.

The king, who was also the supreme commander of the army, had reached an agreement with German gun manufacturer Heckler and Koch to procure their G36 assault rifles.

Plans had also been made to assemble the weapons in Nepal and sell them in South Asia.

But Shah says the plan was anathema to India, since the bigger neighbour did not want Nepal to possess better arms and was pressuring it to buy its indigenous Insas group of firearms that were inferior in quality.

“I think the arms politics could be one of the major reasons behind the palace massacre,” Shah says.

The other reason, he writes, could be the issue of granting citizenship to residents of the Terai plains, many of whom are of Indian origin.

Parliament was ready to confer citizenship on the community and had forwarded the bill to the king for his seal of approval.

However, King Birendra, instead of passing the bill, sent it to the Supreme Court for consideration and the apex court nixed it.

“Had the king put his seal of approval, within a few years Nepalis could have become a minority in Nepal,” the former aide writes.

“After the bill was scrapped, a few senior Indian government officials expressed concern to the king.”

Shah says that he was given a top secret file by the king, outlining Operation Eagle, a plan to resolve the growing Maoist insurgency.

Apparently, King Birendra was planning to seize power, start talks with the underground Maoists, concede some of their demands and bring them back to mainstream politics.

For that, he had been sending his younger brother, Prince Dhirendra, and a senior army official as his emissaries to talk with the Maoist leadership.

“At a time such a serious plan was being developed to resolve the crisis gripping the state, the palace massacre occurred mysteriously,” he writes.

“My analysis and conclusion is that internal as well as foreign forces were involved.”

Though Shah asserted during a televised interview that the actual killings were done by Birendra’s son Dipendra, he says the crown prince, already smarting under his mother’s tight rein, was incited by foreign forces.

While the government formed a commission to investigate the actual shooting June 1, 2001, it did not go beyond that to investigate the motive or the abettors.

As a democracy, India wanted monarchy in Nepal to end and so joined forces with Nepal’s Maoist guerrillas, who also wanted the abolition of the crown.

Shah says given the meetings held between Nepal’s political party leaders and the Maoists in India, it was inconceivable that the Indian intelligence agencies did not know about them.

Besides supporting these meets, he says India actively trained Nepal’s Maoist guerrillas.

He claims the cat was let out of the bag when an armed police force team went to Chakrata in India’s Uttarakhand state to receive arms training from the Indian authorities and learned that an earlier group, apparently Maoists, had also been trained there.

When he tried to investigate, Shah claims he was told by then King Gyanendra to resign under Indian pressure

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
@Bobby, you can dismiss the opinion of those generals out of hand. They are not going to defend the ataom bomb, BECAUSE IT UNDERCUTS them in the efficacy of war machine. As to the fear of Russian Economic Model overtaking America, just remember BLITZKREIG, within twenty four hrs THE ENTIRE SOVIET AIR FLEET WAS DESTROYED. also remember the german army came within THIRTY MILES from the gates of MOSCOW, but the Third Reich being such an incredible brainless a s s h o l e he was overruled his generals and asked them to fan out and destroy each and every bit of Russia. The Russian held on till WINTER , and the RUSSIAN WINTER defeated Panzer division.
So I dont think that was uppermost in Yanks mind. ALSO HOW CAN YOU DISMISS AKIO MORITA WHO WAS IN THE *** ARMY SERVING.

[Reply]
Vinay Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
…. “Imagine that YOU had the power to change the course of history, if you wanted. What would you do?
(A) Stop the bombing or
(B) Let it happen because its worth it
I would request you to answer by typing just one alphabet only either A or B………”

I argument doesn’t stop at history. Doesn’t stop at bombing. It applies to any act on violence (/crime) on humanity which happen even now. Terrorist acts in countries like India or western countries, naxalism in tribal areas … Question is
(A) Should they stop violence first?
(B) Should they continue, till they get “Concrete solution”? (What is that? How will they achieve that?.., no one knows clearly). To me, trying to find “moral justifications” for these continued violent acts is nothing but an argument of “Let it happen because its worth it” )
What should one type; A or B? To me, answering the second scenario is more important. First one is history.

As far Iran trying to acquire Nukes and American policies. Nothing can be more dangerous to the world than Pak having nukes; a damage which has already been done. If US can destroy nukes in Pak, that contributes more towards the world peace than its efforts to oppose Iran.

America many a times sides with the wrong one. Like choosing to favour Pak, an Islamic country ruled by dictators over a secular democratically elected country (India), just because it championed non-alignment movement and its leader (Nehru) had socialistic views. It supported dictator ruled Iraq over democratically elected Iran (religious or non religious, it was people’s choice. That time, “religious terrorism” was not heard of). Now, one policy for Pak another for Iran. (Today, Pak and Iran are friends. But who is a permanent friend? Specially among Muslim countries? We can’t forget, Iran is majorly a Shea country and Pak majorly a Sunni). Pak is always unnecessarily favoured child.

Long ago, I had watched BBC documentary about Iran’s relation with US. “Iran and the West”. Interesting one. Link to the first part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfrJ2rBobGs&feature=related

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
@vinay, I am sure you remember the photograph of SWINESFELD shaking hands with Saddam during 1980 war with Iran , and also selling arms , that is why when george Galloway the scottish MP when appeared before US congress, gave it full and square, and said rumsfeld had met more times saddam hussein than him, WHAT AN IRONY also how bumhead are these THOSE IN MIDDLE EAST
the war went on for ten years..

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
And in that war 1 million plus Muslims were killed.. No Muslim ever opposed it because they loike the invasion of Muslim lands by Muslims..The “invasionn” theory has meaning for them only if America enters.. How can they be in Muslim lands…. (as if some super being jas allocated some land to Msulism!).

Vinay Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
I have a little doubt. Do you think, muslim(Arab) lands would have opposed in equal strength, if America had invaded Iran instead of Iraq? http://www.slate.com/id/1008394/ Problem with Iranese is, they refuse to loose their identity. They should learn from Pakistan, how to forget the roots!

shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
@Binoy and Vinay, there was a lot of hand wrenching during the bosnian war, Sultan of Brunei paid for all the reconstruction of bosnia, though I have a feeling the companies who made a killing must have been Anglo saxons. I dont know whether Bosnians are shia ot sunni., same case with Chechens. But France is the country to handle this terrorism menace , they have said in no uncertain terms THEY WILL NUKE WHICHEVER COUNTRY IT IS ORIGINATING FROM . Would Bobby kindly step in.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Vinay-

Actually the wikileaks tell the whole story — More than Israel, it is the Sunni autocrats (Saudi Arabia pressing incessantly) – Saudi, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE and all others – who want US to bomb Iran to cut off their nuclear development… In fact, Saudi Arabia blamed US multiple times for not doing anything (other than economic sanctions) about the Iranian bomb.

Another thing of interest – there have been PAkistani Sunni terrorists creating problems on the Iranian/Pakistani border cities, including the Sunni Muslim usual art “suicide bombing”. It will be interesting to see what happens if it escalates.

shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
@Binoy, the exact words used by the saudi king is “Cut the head of the snake”

Vinay Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
I really appreciate Iranese guts. On one side, they have been stubborn to bow to the big boss for decades. On the other side, they don’t have a single friendly neighbour, though everyone are muslims. I would have supported for Iran gas pipeline project, if there was no “Pak headache” in between!

tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 4:44 am
only aim of white skin is to sell arms.anybody wants peace and development is their enemy.saddam was great,that is why all iraqis goes to his grave even now ,weep and pray.people of iraq have taught them good lesson.gallow was right.russians were far honest and better and trustworthy.he made biggest mistake when joined american block..handshake with rumsfield was kiss of death.

Vinay Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 7:01 am
@tajender, The only thing I agree with you is your first statement. Arm factories still provide jobs in west. Rest, I would consider BS.

@Shan, Both Bosnian and Chechnya people are Sunnis (googled to find out). One more fact I came to know is, Jundallah ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah ), an organization that claims to be fighting for the rights of Sunni Muslims in Iran. (As usual, allegedly supported by ISI, Saudi, US and UK). Wonder, whether it can snowball to become an Al Qaida. By the way, is anyone aware of any terrorist activities induced by Iran in west (as alleged by US)? All I find is Pak or middle east people. Regarding Nuke fear, it would be better if entire middle east “including Israel” is Nuke free. It is even rosier, if the whole world is. Lets live with the reality.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 7:25 am
Vinay

As far as I know, iran has not been involved in any terrorist acts in US or the West.

However,US has caricatured it as a terrorist country because of its animosity to Israel, and its support of anti-Israeli acivities in in the West Bank.

There was a marine barrack attack in Lebanon during Regans presidency in whivch hundreds of marines were killed. Hizabullah did this; and Irann is a supporter of Hizbullah.

But so far, no single Iranian has been arrested anywhere in the West and US on terrorist activities. US, instead of alienatting Iran, should work closely with Iran to destroy the Sunni extremism.

My feeling is that US will work with a moderate regime. Many in the policy making sphere here beliebved that Ahmdanijad will lose last elections and they could work with the opposition leaders.

Vinay Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
@Binoy,

I feel, it would be wrong on the US part to work with Irani government “only if” one particular party comes to power. End of the day, it is people’s choice. Indians have right to decide, whether they want Congress or BJP. We can’t vote for Congress because, Miliband likes Rahul (Miliband is not in power now. It is a different issue). US-Iran relation has gone sour because of this US attitude. (Intervening in personal matters of the country).

I consider, the Islamic movement in Iran at 70s could have been nothing but saving their nativity over an enforced (western) culture by their emperor Shah. (Today, even people in UK, US are worried about preserving their nativity against invading eastern culture. But we don’t term it as religious). I do not know, how strictly Iranese wanted to apply Sharia law in everything (like Talibanis). Initially they abandoned Shah’s family planning policy saying Islam and country needs population. But realizing the burden, they soon reversed the policies saying “Islam favored families with only two children” and decreased the population growth to 0.7 “despite being an Islamic state”. (This is in fact the model, which Kalbe Sadiq a Shea leader in India proposed. But as usual, was silenced by majority Sunni members of AMITB, because they wanted to follow Arabic (read sunni) example).

The Iranese wanted to execute the ousted Shah, who was getting treated in US. US did not allow it claiming his health condition. Iran wanted to make sure about the claim, by team of its experts, even that was not allowed. (If a country gives political shelter to a person, who was involved with terrorism in US, how will US react?). If Iranese feel, US acts like a big boss, the feeling is natural. If US keeps pursuing the same attitude, they keep electing a similar government like Ahmadinejad. (Even the moderates who had governed Iran earlier, were not too pleased with US). Trying to control Iran’s Nuke policy by economic sanctions might backfire. (The Iraqi doctor, who committed terrorist act in UK described the unavailability of health drugs in Iraq during sanctions. Hope, US is not going to invite Shea attacks in future). Instead of all this, if Obama had disowned his previous president’s act of sheltering Shah and apologized to Iran (Didn’t Iraq invasion later disowned by future leaders?) and “request” Iran and Israel governments “both” to reconsider their Nuke policy, the relation can get better. But may be attitude is more important to US than mental peace. (Judaism perished in the world despite intelligence, because of attitude).

Vinay Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Oil-crunch-looms-as-RBI-stifles-Iran-imports/Article1-644331.aspx

Why India should act like US puppet? (When China is actively participating in gas pipeline with Iran). On one side, the oil ban boosts oil prices in India; on other side, it would help China (which might get oil at a cheaper rate). We have always witnessed US favouritism towards Pak over India. We know, how good friend US is. Why India is up to loosing its old friend (and its own economic benefits), because of US insistence? Can we hope for a government (PM) with stronger backbone?

shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
@Binoy and vinay, guys you have articulated the voice of sanity and RATIONALITY,but as they say in UK “IT’S A FUNNY OLD WORLD”. My observations are as follows.I had the chance to interact with a few iranian Doctors. As I understand SHAH wanted to turn the iranian (read Islamic)
society upside down , and wanted to MODERNISE in the speed of a rocket. he also perhaps wanted to go back TO HIS ROOTS. That is why he changed his name to ARYA MIHIR, a longing to reclaim the glorious kingdom of xerexes and PERSEPOLIS, and wanted to peel away from Islam.
But that was his elite and coterie (SAME SCENARIO IN TURKEY) may be fully for it BUT THE MASSES have been BRAIINWASHED for thousand of years, thus whatever you impose will be resisted, unless you have SLOW DIFFUSION of Renaissance knowledge , that happened with India.Also iran had lot lot corruption during Shah’s time . One Doctor told me the Iranians used to come over to UK , just to watch Man United Football match and go back.
Shah died of CANCER and was very unwell , this is a fact , no ifs and buts.All the doctors and Engineers Emigrated to USA.
Regarding FATWA FRIENDLY PRESENT IRAN , it is a place of never ending NIGHTMARES.
Just read this book by Ateesh Tasser called “Stranger to History”.apparently there is secret HARE KRISHNA SOCIETY just to spite the Mullahs. Two thngs are needed , ISRAEL NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT TO BOOK, west bank gaza to palestanians , jerusalem JOINT CONTROL ,
to help with Israel for their hunger for land , I think there is plenty of desert in Egypt and jordanian border they can buy, or should be sold. BUT FUNDAMENTAL TO ALL THERE SHOULD BE A MASSIVE OVERHAUL IN ISLAM , perhaps somebody be allowed to bring out a NEW QUORAN

Vinay Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
@Shan,

I did not dispute the fact that, Shah had cancer. I meant, US should have handed him over to government of Iran respecting the elected Iran government. As far Shah’s modernisation programs and masses being brainwashed for thousands of years; Most of us, can’t go back to what was practised on this land thousand years ago. Following what our parents or grand parents practised becomes ethnicity for most of us. (No one expects Indian Muslims or Sikhs to change their faith and become Hindu, except Dude). Shah might have wanted to go back to his roots, but his life style (and Iran’s culture then) was “western”, nothing closer to its heritage.

I get confused with what is the true picture of today’s Iran. On one side, I hear large representation of women in studies and jobs. On the other side, I hear the news of Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery. Real picture may be in between. (In India also, there are examples of uncivilised practises and inhuman treatments. If people don’t like India, they can only highlight on these practises).

As far India, it should follow similar policies for Israel and Iran.

shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
@Vinay, India is massively dependendent on israel for arms (this is despite ashish’s reassurance about the innovation ecosystem in India).BARAK MISSILE SYSTEMS AND PHALCON AWACS SYSTEMS ARE EXAMPLES, AND ALSO THE DRONES.

Vinay Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:11 am
@Shan
Do you think Israel will stop selling arms to India, if India buys oil from Iran? Doesn’t US sell arms both to India and Pakistan? End of the day, it is business. It is mutual dependence.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 3:26 am
@Vinay, if India”Aggressively” pursues pro IRAN policy rather than the current lukewarm/fudge, THERE WILL BE NO DEFENCE CO-OPERATION(read selling of arms) by Israel.India needs Israel more than Israel needs India, who else will supply France , deemed prohibitory expensive, Russia (You wouldn’t like to put all your eggs in one basket)

ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 4:20 am
PHALCON AWACS SYSTEMS ARE EXAMPLES, AND ALSO THE DRONES

iran manufactures drones.
Binoy Hegde

Islamic gift that goes on giving –

Denmark authorities arrested four Muslims today in copenhagen for planning to kill as many Danish as possible.. (What a joke is this–these guys immigrate to Denmark and Sweden and then kill).. Lots of armamnets were siezed; they had some name sucha s Allhs army or something – Two of Pakistani backfground, one of Tunisian background, one of Lebanese background,.

Danish police says if tehse guys were not arrested, a major attack would have happened during new year celeb.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
@binoy, well as you are aware , they have arrested a so called german citizen (afghan asylum seeker granted asylum) planning a mumbai style attack in Europe. These are simply MAD.

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
hegde wonderful i hope one day they will really fk them.shan will go and put butter in their and ur as….

[Reply]
Bobby

Definition of international terrorism- Killing civilians to achieve political goals.

Definition of War Crime- deliberate targeting of civilians

By this definition, what is the USA?- the worlds leading terrorist state. and every American president since WW2- A war criminal.

But of course, thats not how it works, especially when there are so many apologists for the powerful around. Its only when Al Qaeda or “other” terrorists involved that it is terrorism.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 29th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Mr Bobby

Fortunately a large majority of the worlds population disagree with you. As a free person in a free country, you can keep your beliefs and theories. Majority of the world sees Al Queda and other Islamist terrorists as terrorists, quite brutal at their game, to establish Allahs (or whatever) land as it was in the Prophet’s ages. They do not see US or Denmark as terrorist countries. And nobody will see them as terrorist countries for the next hundred years, while the Muslims will be perceived a s terrorists as long a stheir terrorist acts continue. I just hope the so called “4 LeT guys from Pakistan” do not do anything like the Mumbai 11/26; because I am afraid there will be a backlash against indian Muslims (wrongly, I may add), and India will be forced to go to war.

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 2:44 am
singh hinuism is terrorism.we dont need a certicate.whole world including europe and america wants to go muslim countries and their future and good life.while frm india and now from europe barring banias and thugs everybody wants to leave.christians hindus and jews have written mre than 60000 books agaibst islam but no muslim (except ram autar) have nevr written anything against others.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 2:48 am
Tajender

Thaat is because Muslims acnnot write. Mr Mirza wrote in a blog that number of Muslim authors ((in Arab countries and non-Arab countries) is abysmally small in proportion to others; and that is a relection of lack of imagination, inquisitiveness and above all a closed mind.. You see the results of that closed mind…

tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 3:19 am
muslims have written best books produced best philosher.invented more than thousand item.if u dont know this is ot my mistake.muslim spain was most secular country.books to start oxford university were brought from muslim spain.they eestablished their institutions
from money looted from muslim india.when ahmadabad had good roads running water street lights and big bussines community ,london and peris had mud houses.all chemicals have arabic name ,word chemistry has come arabic word chemia,alcohol,alkaline etc etc are arabic word,most star names are arabic.even hindu is rabic.from muslim indiaa to muslim spain ,from muslim cairo to muslim turkey people of all faith and religion were living happily.there was no exodus.,like now from muslim khartoum to muslim jakarta.i advise u to read about muslim writer of spain and india .though where christian forces go they destroy libraries ,recent example is iraq.

magna carta first document on justice is copied from quraan.khali jibran was an arab.

in islam it is prohibited to speak about others faith.as it is belief that messangers came i other parts of world too.we gave respect to jesus almost equal prophet mohammed.issa mariam and maria is common name.iranian universities have 60%women and writing research papers as good as americans.

Vinay Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 7:17 am
@tajender
Proper Madrassa training. Dreaming about the glory of Arab world hundreds of years ago, than looking at what is happening now.

“iranian universities have 60%women and writing research papers as good as americans.”
Is that the reason, Arab world hates Iran?

“… but no muslim (except ram autar) have never written anything against others…”
You consider ram autar as muslim then, (which he never admitted). By the way, what about you?

Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 12:07 am
Bobby

Well said. I can assure you, you are not alone. There are many people around the world who share your views. The only people who do not agree with the ananlysis you poted are the die hard islamophobes in this forum.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 1:27 am
Mr Ravi

80% of the non-Islamic world would not agree with you.. Hey, who cares!

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 12:29 am
@bobby, by that token tour godfather the chinkys should top the list for WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN TIBET. And perhaps you could join or put yourself forward for Nishane Pakistan (their highest award),for dragging India for its role in acheiving its POLITICAL GOAL IN BANGLADESH.

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 2:51 am
shan mian,for the first time tibetans have seen education and clean life.

dalai lama is brhmncl stooge.

dalai lama misl gareebe hain

khud wo ja nahin sakte
hum unhe hata nahin sakte.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 3:51 am
Tejender , taliban, andherey me jo baithey hai unhe kuch dikhai nahi deta.

shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 4:01 am
@tejender, an muslim women speaks about islam
WOMEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR RAPES

By ayesha Ahmed

A woman’s whole body is ”Awrah”, arabic word for pudendum ( the external genitals), according to several hadiths.It is natural that the sighting of awrah arouses men and creates an uncontrollable sexual urge. This urge is specially very acute in muslim men due to their higher sexual potency. Allah gives all muslim men a higher libido to enable them to enjoy their sharia permitted four wives, and their slave girls/captured women (our prophet was given the libido of 30 men to enjoy his 9+ wives and the continuos supply of captured women from jihadi raids. Here is an example of our prophet’s instant arousal at the sight of a woman)….

Muslim, Book 008, Number 3240:

“Jabir reported that Allah’s Messenger saw a woman, and so he came to Zainab (the woman must have turned him down) as she was tanning a leather and had sexual intercourse with her”.

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 4:28 am
shan ,WOMEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR RAPES

some cases it is right.or i will say most of the cases.even grass eating monkies of india get excited.good looking beef eaters will be excited .but teaching of islam stops him from becoming rapist.delhi is rape capital of world.

which book u are mentioning it is totally wrong.
krishna had 16003 wives and used to f k his neighbours wife called radha.shameless indians dance on this act.anyhow i agree with ram autar that hinduism is nost idiotic religion.
i have long association with bengalis.i never found a single normal person.nirad choudhary was well educated person ,but his mental level was no better to a richshaw puller of bihar.
shan

Truth Hurts , Truth is islamophobia.
and her status in case she gets raped.

1. SHARIA LAW OF STAYING HOME

Woman must stay home to avoid exposure to na-mahrams.

Quran says:

33.33 “Stay quietly in your homes”

.In his tafsir- quran , Maulana Mohiuddin says “It is not only forbidden to get out of the house, but it is also HARAM to go out of her house”.

2. SHARIA LAW OF LEAVING HOME UNDER COMPULSION

If a woman must leave home under absolute compulsion like escaping fire , she must cover herself fully in a chador or burqa and must always be accompanied with an adult mehram ( preferably carrying an open sword)

Quran says:

33.59 (Hilali and Khan) O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way) when leaving home (under compulsion)..

An excellent example to implement this aya and the applicable sharia law was displayed by diligent Saudi religious police . They prevented unveiled (and unaccompanied by mehrams) young women from escaping a burning school building by beating them back with sticks. Most of them died with their honor in tact, thanks to these pious muslims.

BBC NEWS

Saudi police ’stopped’ fire rescue

Mecca Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia’s religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.

About 800 girls were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.

One witness said he saw three policemen “beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing abhaya and veil. A large number of girls were burnt alive while their relatives watched helplessly from outside.

(jazakallah khair. Those guards will inshallah get janna for steadfastly upholding Allah’s laws)

3. SHARIA LAW OF RAPE

In case a woman gets raped , she is considered guilty of adultery unless she can provide four adult muslim male witnesses who had watched the action and who would testify that the sex was actually forced on her and that she was not a willing partner in it. If she has only female witnesses in case she was raped by an intruder in front of her fellow wives and slave girls or in a women’s dormitory full of women witnesses then she is out of luck. Her punishment is stoning to death if she is married or hundred (100) lashes if single.

A 19 year old girl was gang raped repeatedly by six momins in Saudi Arabia recently and was given a punishment of 200 lashes and six months prison ( the punishment was increased because it was a gang rape)

USA Today

Report: Saudi gang rape victim punished

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — A Saudi court sentenced a woman who had been gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes — more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative, a newspaper reported Thursday

4.SHARIA LAW OF SEX WITH CAPTURED WOMEN

Allah has made sex with captured women and slave girls (right hand possessions) halal in quran by five ayas (4.3, 4.24, 23.6,33.50,70.30). Thus when a rape victim is imprisoned awaiting stoning or lashings or any other woman is incarcerated for any other reason she qualifies as a captured woman and sex with her becomes halal . That is Islamic fringe benefits for the prison officials and guards who work long hours at low pay.

Here is an excerpt from Persian Journal

Women in Evin Prison, Tehran

There are two units for the women in the Evin Prison: the unit of solitary confinement which is under the men’s section and situated right next to the foothills in the furthest north of prison and the public unit which is closer to the entrance gate of the prison. When I was in the Evin prison, I could see that the women were transported to and from their solitary confinement to the other places (like the office of the prison) by men who pushed them around with a piece of stick. During my years of imprisonment, I came to know that the male prison officials had sexual relations with the inmates or raped them (if resisted).

Here are some videos about honorable treatment of women in islam. These videos also shed light on sharia law of rape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN11ym5uXE&eurl=
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/rape-victims-are-criminals/

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/videos/108/the-violent-oppression-of-women-in-islam/

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BJtOCs5crns

Jazakallah Khair

top

For information

[Reply]
tajender Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
all above laws weere good at that time with time things have cairo ,istanboul are more advace than delhi.islam changes with time.sati is still going in india.bapu asaram has sacrificed 25 childs in last 2-3 years.all ur holy people are caught in rape and murder one by one.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 3:30 am
Bapu Ashram has done those heinous things, what is happenibg are they getting President’s Medal. Also do some maths divide the act by 1.2 billion population , the incidence rate is .0000001 percent.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 11:38 pm
same with nuslims.there are black sheeps everywhere.in muslim country anybody who will do such crime will be hanged.while in india bapu will continue his frauds.there is no hindu holy person who is not caught in rape murder thuggy or rape case.my neighbour is sree kripalu jee maharaj was caught twice in rape case.nothing happened to him.
satya sai baaba,king of frauds killed his 6 young boys who were his sleeping with him .bjpai let him go without even trial.when shankaracharya was arrested on murder charge,people of his entire area distributed sweets.they knew he was fraud.

shan Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Ram ka nam badnam autar, Regarding sai baba , take this. When The GREAT magician P.C.SORCAR visited Sai Baba , Sai Baba like his usual routine , produced a mithai from nowhere and gave it to him. Sorcar , GAVE HIM BACK by producing a RASSAGOLLA from nowhere(Ofcourse both were practising what is known in magicians parlance as PALMING.

Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Child prostituion is SANCTIFIED by Hindus.

Untouchability, is still widely practiced by Hindus in India.

Dalit women are regularly raped by upper caste Hindus and they have been doing this for centuries.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 3:32 am
Paedophilia is practised as a religious edict in your religion because the founder CONSUMATED marriage WITH HIS BEST FRIEND’S DAUGHTER WHO WAS SEEN ENTERING HIS HOUSE WITH DOLLS

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 3:39 am
Mr Ravi

You are wrong about raping Dalit women..no no, they are ugly looking…so there may have been few rapes, but not to the level you magnify! There muist have been 500 in the last 200 years.

You know, you should get life man.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Untouchables

——————————————————————————–

Untouchables are the fifth category of Hindu society, as maintained by some, and sometimes called Harijans. Others include these people with the sudras, and they may be labeled “clean” or “unclean.” Belonging to this caste are the offspring of of mixed-caste unions, tribals, and foreigners, and those of defiling occupations such as the Chamar, leather workers; Dom, scavengers and funerary specialists; Bhangi, Mahar, Ohed, Chuhra, sweepers; Paraiyan, scavengers; Koraga, basket makers; and many others. Some, such as the Paraiyan, would carry a small drum to warn others of their approach; other, such as the Pulayan, would move about at night, and even then would have to call out to warn anyone they might meet of their presence. Some castes were so polluting that they were not only untouchable but unseeable as well, such as the Vannan of southern India whose job it was to was the clothes of other untouchables, and who might leave their homes only in darkness because to see one of them was enough to pollute a higher caste person.

The untouchables lived outside of the community boundaries, and draw water from wells of the higher castes. Education was prohibited, they were not allowed to read sacred texts, and only by patiently their humble lot in life could they expect to gain salvation. Orthodox Hindus will not eat with, marry, or work with untouchables. The Laws of Manu define their social position as thus: “Their dwelling place shall be outside of the village, and their wealth shall consist of dogs and donkeys. Their clothes shall be garments of corpses, their food eaten from broken dishes. Their ornaments shall be of black iron, and they are condemned to wandering from place to place.”

The untouchables represented various forms of threat to the normal functioning of mainstream Hindu society, which they were cut off from. Dirty occupations carry the danger of infection and disease; mixed marriages and their offspring threatened accepted cultural norms and social stability; foreigners represented a challenge to established values and customs.

The Constitution of modern independent India has abolished untouchability in theory, but in practice, especially in rural areas, yje concept still survives. Both reformed movements and individuals have tried eradicating it, but, so far, not with much success. Gandhi tried improving their image by giving them the name of Harijans, Children of God; officially they are termed “Scheduled Castes,” but terminology alone does not change social status. However, the Scheduled Castes have been granted more privileges, such as scholarships and college places reserved for them, and Civil Service job allocations, which have caused backlash and resentment from higher castes. Discrimination still exists toward these people despite of governmental efforts to help them. A.G.H.

Untouchability : Still practiced in India.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGjKbO5rQUw

Here is a real good video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85EjsOJrnfc

Attrocities on Dalits in India:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Cm73qya4U

Now you can judge if Sharia is bad or this type of Hinduism in India.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
After more than 60 years of independence casteism, prejudice and untouchability continues to thrive in rural India.

Dalits are segregated from the rest of the society just like RSA Apartheid.

Cremation grounds for Dalits are sepearted from this reserved for Brahmins.

Water wells from which Dalits can draw water are different from those used by the Upper castes.

Food is separately served to Dalits and they are required to bring their own plates.

Cases of discrimination, atrocities committed against Dalits are hardly ever registered and rarely ever progressed.

Even when positions of power are reserved for Dalits, many remain vacant due to Upper Caste Intimidation.

Movement within India for Dalits is difficult as Upper Castes, who regularly shoo off any incoming Dalits, control entry to villages.

In many parts of India Dalits can not even pass the houses of upper castes, while wearing head gear and foot wear.

Authorities often turn a blind eye to caste atrocities.

So before any one starts to be hyper critical of SHARIA law and how women are treated in Saudi Arabia, etc.

There are many social issues closer to home, further more these have been endemic and sanctified by HINDUISM.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
CHILD PROSTITUTION IN INDIA.

Here is a learned article on Child Protitution in India. SHAN from time to time, reminds the readres of this BLOG about a Saudi Gentelman who contarcted a One Day Marriage with a 13 yr olf girl. The reality is far from this simple example.

_________________________________________________

“Child prostitution is the ultimate denial of the rights of the child.”

(Dr Jon E Rhode, UNICEF representative in India).

India’s 944 580 000 inhabitants live in an area of 3 287 590 km², with an expectation that the population will reach 1 billion in May. Almost a quarter of this total are under 18 years of age. 25% of the population live in urban areas and this is estimated to be growing annually at just over 1%. Over population and lack of education in nutrition and health contribute to the deaths of around 11 000 children each day. In 1951, 164 million Indians were living in poverty compared to 312 million in 1993-94.

There are estimated to be over 900 000 sex workers in India. 30% are believed to be children. Recent reports estimate that the number of children involved in prostitution is increasing at 8 to10% per annum.

About 15% of the prostitutes in Mumbai (Bombay), Delhi, Madras, Calcutta, Hyderabad and Bangalore are children. It is estimated that 30%of the prostitutes in these six cities are under 20 years of age. Nearly half of them became commercial sex workers when they were minors. Conservative estimates state that around 300 000 children in India are suffering commercial sexual abuse, which includes working in pornography.

In one study of 456 sex workers in Mumbai who had been ‘rescued’ by police in February 1996, a fifth were under 18 years and two-thirds were under 20. The main obstacle in the cracking down on child prostitution for the police is the issue of rehabilitation and where to place and reintegrate all the children that they rescue.

ROOTS: The problem of child prostitution in India is more complicated than in other Third World countries where it is directly related to sex tourism. In India, sexual exploitation of children has its roots in traditional practices, beliefs and gender discrimination. According to some research, child prostitution is socially acceptable in some sections of Indian society through the practice of Devdasi. Young girls are given to the ‘gods’ and they become a religious prostitute. There are believed to be around 3 300 devdasis in Belguam area alone. Devdasi is banned by the Prohibition of Dedication Act of 1982. Parents or guardians dedicating their girls are liable to five years in jail and a Rs5 000 (approximately £71) fine.

AGE: According to a madam in Kamatipura, the average age of girls supplied to the brothels in the last two years has decreased from 14 and 16 years to 10 and 14 years. A girl between 10 and 12 years fetches the highest price.

AIDS: The fear of HIV/AIDS has increased the demand for virgins and children. Clients mistakenly believe that children have fewer chances of contracting the disease. Similarly there is the myth that a man can rid himself of sexually transmitted diseases if he sleeps with a virgin. Recent Indian Government statistics put the number of people infected with HIV at 3.5million, indicating approximately three out of every 100 Indians are now infected with the virus which leads to AIDS. Almost 9 out of 10 of those people are below 45 years old.

TRAFFICKING: About 7,000 sex workers cross over from Nepal into India every year. 66% of the girls are from families where the annual income is about Rs5 000. They may be sold by their parents, deceived with promises of marriage or a lucrative job or kidnapped and sold to brothel owners. Between 40 – 50% are believed to be under 18, the age of consent in India, some are as young as 9 or 10 years old.

RURAL ISSUE: Child sex workers are not confined to big cities. A survey in Bihar revealed that roadside brothels for truck drivers in the Aurangabad and Sasaram districts offered sex workers aged between 6 and 18 years.

CASE EXAMPLES:

Meena was married off at 12. Soon after she was taken to Delhi by her husband, where she found out that he was a pimp. In the last three years, she has serviced up to six clients a night. The major part of her earnings goes to pay rent on the little room, the rest goes to her husband.
Rita was sold at 9 years old. She washed and cooked for a madam in Delhi for a few months until a client wanted a virgin. Two years later, she barely talks to anyone and spends most of her spare time painting flowers.

Maya, 10, was taken to Gorakhpur in Uttar Pradesh by her aunt who was paid Rs 3 000. When she refused to have sex with a client, she was locked in a room for two days, scared with snakes and beaten unconscious. When she came around she was raped by the client. Four years on, Maya lives in the red-light area of Mumbai. Her two year old spends the night in a crèche run by a social service organisation. When he was only a few months old, she used to drug him and put him under her working cot. JUBILEE ACTION RESPONSE Jubilee Action is supporting two houses on the outskirts of Mumbai which are providing permanent homes for orphaned and abandoned children of prostitutes working in its red light district. The staff has rescued some of the 50 girls, others have been brought by their parents in order to protect their children from the streets’ influence. Having received little education on the streets, the girls are integrated into the local school system and extra tuition is available at the home if required.

Case Study:

Asha was left to fend for herself on the streets of Bombay after her mother, a prostitute in the red light district, died. Her father wanted to sell her to a brothel owner but Jubilee House staff rescued her. Asha is now studying hard, has passed her typing exam and is happy and safe from the dangers of the streets.

If you would like further information on Jubilee Action please e-mail info@jubileeaction.demon.co.uk Jubilee Action is a registered charity no 1013587
111 million children of the 250 million child labour force are Indian…
Every 2nd child has no access to primary education in India…
Every 3rd girl child does not live to see her teen years in India…
There are no estimates of the number of children who are subjected to child-trafficking, debt-bondage, forced labour, pornography, prostitution and drugs, in India…
Trafficking of persons is the second largest illegal trade after arms sale. In 1997 according to U.N calculations, the procurers, smugglers, and corrupt public officials involved in the international trade in human beings, extracted $ 7 billion in profits from their cargo. There are no accurate statistics of how many people are involved, but it is estimated that in the last 30 years, trafficking in women and children in Asia for sexual exploitation alone has victimized over 30 million people. Everyday about 200 girls and women in India enter prostitution and 80% of them against their will. At the current rate of growth by 2025 one out of every five Indian girl children will be a child prostitute.

Every hour, four women and girls in India enter prostitution, three of them against their will.
13-year-old Mira of Nepal was offered a job as a domestic worker in Mumbai, India. Instead she arrived at a brothel on Mumbai’s Falkland Road, where tens of thousands of young women are displayed in row after row of zoo-like animal cages. Her father had been duped into giving her to a trafficker. When she refused to have sex, she was dragged into a torture chamber in a dark alley used for ‘breaking-in’ new girls. She was locked in a narrow, windowless room without food or water. On the fourth day, one of the madam’s goondas (thug) wrestled her to the floor and banged her head against the concrete until she passed out. When she awoke, she was naked; a “rattan” cane smeared with pureed red chilli peppers shoved into her vagina. Later she was raped by the goonda. Afterwards, she complied with their demands. The madam told Mira that she had been sold to the brothel for 50,000 rupees (about US$ 1,700), that she had to work until she paid off her debt. Mira was sold to a client who became her pimp.’

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
BEFORE YOU CONDEMN SHARIA LAW.

Have a closer look at our own home.

_______________________________________________________________________

A report issued by the Indian government yesterday found that around 1.2 million prostituted children are believed to be currently enslaved throughout India. To give a comparison, that’s roughly the entire population of Dallas. Child prostitution in India has become more than just a serious issue- it’s an epidemic.

The study was based on surveys which identified approximately three million prostitutes in India, 40% of which are minors. In part, this incredibly high number of exploited children in India is due to its status as a source, transit, and destination country for human trafficking. However, authorities estimate up to 90% of India’s trafficking is internal- Indian kids being forced into Indian brothels.

India’s internal child trafficking epidemic is indicative of the evolution of human trafficking- local “products” in local markets. Smuggling humans into a country is often costly and difficult- you have to bribe officials, forge paperwork, and arrange long distance transportation. However, if a trafficker can find a very vulnerable person, say a poor, orphaned, or runaway child, he can enslave that child much more inexpensively. This cost-benefit analysis performed by traffickers has lead to a rise in internal trafficking around the world, and especially in countries like India, China, and Russia where there is widespread poverty and many vulnerable children.

So traffickers are selling Indian children within India. I have to ask, who is buying them? These 1.2 million exploited children will be sold for sex a conservative average of ten times a day, meaning that over 4 billion sex acts are being performed by Indian child sex slaves each year. Sure, India has a thriving sex tourist industry which attracts wealthy Westerners, but they can’t possibly account for 4 billion sex acts a year. I’d guess Indian men are buying these kids as well as tourists. It really has become a local epidemic in a local market.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
@pakistani by birth and nature, it only proves and everybody knows THERE IS MASSIVE POVERTY IN INDIA , BUT THIS IS NOT BACCHABAZI , AND IF CAUGHT , THESE “Friends” of yours will be lynched by the mob.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
SHARIA LAW TREATS WOMEN BETTER THAN THIS.

________________________________________________________________

Crimes Against Women in India

Dalit women are particularly hard hit. They are frequently raped or beaten as a means of reprisal against male relatives who are thought to have committed some act worthy of upper-caste vengeance. They are also subject to arrest if they have male relatives hiding from the authorities.

A case reported in 1999 illustrates the toxic mix of gender and caste.

A 42-year-old Dalit woman was gang-raped and then burnt alive after she, her husband, and two sons had been held in captivity and tortured for eight days. Her crime? Another son had eloped with the daughter of the higher-caste family doing the torturing. The local police knew the Dalit family was being held, but did nothing because of the higher-caste family’s local influence.

There is very little recourse available to victims.

A report released by Amnesty International in 2001 found an “extremely high” number of sexual assaults on Dalit women, frequently perpetrated by landlords, upper-caste villagers, and police officers. The study estimates that only about 5 percent of attacks are registered, and that police officers dismissed at least 30 percent of rape complaints as false.

The study also found that the police routinely demand bribes, intimidate witnesses, cover up evidence, and beat up the women’s husbands. Little or nothing is done to prevent attacks on rape victims by gangs of upper-caste villagers seeking to prevent a case from being pursued. Sometimes the policemen even join in, the study suggests. Rape victims have also been murdered. Such crimes often go unpunished.

Thousands of pre-teen Dalit girls are forced into prostitution under cover of a religious practice known as devadasis, which means “female servant of god.” The girls are dedicated or “married” to a deity or a temple. Once dedicated, they are unable to marry, forced to have sex with upper-caste community members, and eventually sold to an urban brothel.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
@Thoroughbred pakistani,these examples are far and few between,AND THE LAW IS VEHEMENTLY AGAINST IT , in contrast to your DARKNESS where it is THE LAW WHICH INSTITUTIONALISES IT, also with Dalits there are HONOURABLE PEOPLE who says in unequivocal terms that it makes them “hang their head in shame”.In the case of BELEIVERS , they rather than confronting the DEMON , is always USING SUBTERFUGE to VALIDATE THE MESSANGER OF GOD MYTH as TRUTH.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 1:21 am
Dubai (UAE): I understand your feelings towards Dalits and downtrodden. But the question is how can they leap-frog 30 or more centuries of backwardness. To “Educate” and “Agitate”, it requires tremendous amount of energy and resourcefulness to come to the level of upper castes. Dalit leaders and intellectuals should think of radical and revolutionary methods of rousing the spirits of Dalits. For example, the Dalits should throw away all symbols of Hinduism and its deities as the Mahars of Maharasthra did before embracing Budhism. They threw away all photos and idols into the well and canals. They should erase all Hindu identities. Now the cunning Brahmins have invented Valmiki as divine to fool Dalits and offer them yet one more deity. They should see through all their games. Cribbing and ranting against Brahmins may be counter-productive. Brahmins hate Upanishads because it advanced the concept of Brahma — a formless cosmic force and it made every living being to claim that it is part of this cosmic force (Aham Brahmasmi). Brahmins cannot ask the rulers and samants to build temples for formless gods. They lose their business. That is why there is hardly a temple for Brahma. As an outflanking move Dalit leaders should found a new religion. Dalits will be the future force to bring reforms to both Dalit and Muslim societies. Muslim and Dalit women can be a real challenge to Hindus.
You want Dalits to become revolutionary, and to became revolutionary they must discard Hinduism. Your argument is wonderful. But how to reach this explosive message to the mere 3% Dalits who alone can read and write? This message can be reached only by a revolutionary media

S Singh Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
S Singh

You are comparing few individuals bigotry to state sanctioned, religious instituted system.. I have to appreciate teh audacity of Muslims like you, Ram, a nd Tejinder, keep up the work. You can win debating points, nothing else.. World will consider Muslims as terrorists, Muslim countries as backward, and Msulim women suppressed by Sharia. Simple fact.

You can try your best to make look India bad, and magnify each and every incident; you are neither the jury nor the judge. Unfortunately or fortunately, the world opinion is very much against Muslims and Muslim behaviour.

Just yesterday five Mulims were arrested in Denmark for planning a major attack. Just yeaterday 9 Muslims were arrested in london for planning a majopr attack. And then theer is this news about 4 LeT terrorists running around in india for planning another 11/26 type.

Along with those women cases you were so diligent to report – we have a dalit woman speaker of Parliament, a dalit woman CM for the most populous state, many Dalit women politicians and officals. Women in general are moving to workforce in big numbers. As the economy and education improves in North India, all will particpate in the country’s boom.

A country growing at 10% needs all its people – Dalits or non Dalits, women or men, educated and less educated…

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
I meant to Ravi

Vinay Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:24 am
@Ravi,
Islamic countries run on Sharia laws. India is NOT run by Manu Smriti. Many of the acts mentioned (be it Untouchability, Devdasi or Sati) are banned by law. Have Islamic countries banned any portion of Sharia law which are not acceptable in todays world (like stoning woman)?

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 4:15 am
can u name any country which runs on sharia.this shows ur poor knowledge about islamic country.

Ravi Reply:
December 30th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
WOMEN IN INDIAN PRISONS.

women prisoners in India.Custodial Horror for Women in India

2010-05-05 — LIG Reporter

Custodial horror is a daily occurrence for women prisoners in India. After all, what can women do when their ‘custodians’ become their violators? The question is very intimidating and frightening but this is actually happening to women in India. There have been innumerable cases where ‘men-in-khaki,’ as we usually refer to the police as, have been caught outraging the women prisoners’ modesty, inside and outside the jail. Worse, women prisoners in India are not just raped but they are even murdered by policemen. The state of Maharashtra has registered the highest number of custodial deaths i.e. 316, followed by Uttar Pradesh (255) and BJP-ruled Gujarat (190) in the last 16 years. According to the National Human Rights Commission, there are 2318 cases of custody deaths across the country, all of which have been committed by policemen, since October 1993.

.

[Reply]
tajender

Binoy Hegde Reply:

December 30th, 2010 at 2:48 am

Tajender

Thaat is because Muslims acnnot write. Mr Mirza wrote in a blog that number of Muslim

benoy,in first 200 universities of world no indian educational institution is included.while there are 2from saudi arabia.brhmns have made india,an intellectual deseert.except boasting nothing is there.

[Reply]
tajender

ek brhmn ke kalee kartoot

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) is convinced that Swami Aseemanand, a Hindu right-wing leader, was directly involved in the Samjhauta Express blasts that killed 68 people in 2007. NIA investigators say the Swami held a meeting on February 11, 12 and 13 in 2006 in Gujarat’s Dang district to decide on bomb attacks in different places, including on that train.

So far, the investigators believed Aseemanand was more of an ideologue than an activist. But official sources say he had roped in Sandeep Dange, an engineering graduate, and Ramji Kalsangra, an electrician, to build the improvised explosive devices used in the blasts.

Around midnight on February 18, 2007 — a day before Pakistan foreign minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri was to arrive in Delhi to resume peace talks — bombs were set off on the Delhi-Lahore Samjhauta Express, a twice-a-week service.

The incident occurred on Indian territory, after the train passed Diwana station near Panipat in Haryana, 80 km north of Delhi. Of the 68 killed, most were Pakistani civilians, besides some Indian citizens and army jawans guarding the train.

The sources say the ingredients and the structure of the firebombs — called incendiary devices — were highly sophisticated and innovative and was quite unique till then.

It was also clear that the bomb-maker had expertise also in dealing with electronics. The NIA suspects RSS district functionary Dange of helping Kalasangra, a resident of Indore, from where the suitcases had been brought. Both are yet to be apprehended.

Swami Aseemanand, born as Jatin Chatterjee in West Bengal, got a masters degree in Physics from the Burdwan University. He joined the Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram, inspired by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh in 1978.

His name surfaced during the probe into the blasts at Mecca Masjid on May 18, 2007, Ajmer on October 11, 2007 and Malegaon and Modasa on September 29, 2008. He was arrested from Haridwar in November this year in connection with the Mecca Masjid blast

[Reply]

[Reply]
Bobby

Two Noam Chomsky interviews on Hard talk-

The crystal clear explanations and the remarkable moral clarity.

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B00qgKnz-uU&feature=related”

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDcHRq7evM&feature=related”

If you have time to spare- Watch Noam chomsky lectures on the Net.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:03 am
Bobby

Thanks for these.

Lets see who will be the first to dis-credit Noam Chomsky

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 9:32 am
I am pleasantly surprised by the fact that this article appeared in the TOI.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Main-Street/entry/why-nobel-laureate-obama-will-not-cry-for-binayak-sen

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 1:58 am
Dr Binayak Sen Zindabad

shan Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Gen Kayanai and ISI murdabad

shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 3:55 am
A comment by the viewer of that interview, in one breath he says DEMOCRACY HAS NO SUBSTITUTE , another breath he says BARAK OBAMA WAS ELECTED BY BIG BUSINESS, when according to the INTERVIEWER 350 MILLION Dollars came from individual donations of 200 DOLLARS EACH, This from a comment by one of the viewers of that You Tube Video
Stateless is the end result of communism in the pure marxist communist ideal, Stateless is also what the Anarchists and Social Libertarians are looking for, they are all seen as extreme leftwing marxist ideologies seeking the SAME ideals.

I can see that you are here whinging about Bush and Blair neither of whom are around anymore and yet you havent ever been to the middle east have you, Noo, My guess is you dont even know a foreign person..hehehe!

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 4:08 am
Noam Chomsky unravelled,
First, there is Chomsky’s well-known deviousness, which we observed in his commentary on Rosenthal’s writing. But that alone could hardly have misled the knowledgeable and sophisticated authors who have written about him (although it may indeed have played a part in certain instances).

Second there is the obscurity of much of the Chomsky publication enterprise. Some of his most malicious pronouncements have been reported in very small ultra-leftist and neo-Nazi publications, and often in French, thus remaining hidden from the general American reader. (4) The single most revealing description of his intimate involvement with the neo-Nazis was written in French by Chomsky’s neo-Nazi associate, Pierre Guillaume, and was published by a very obscure neo-Nazi publisher in Paris. (I report on this essay in some detail on pages 52-62 and I ask the reader to pay particular attention to it). But, on the other hand, Chomsky has also made blatantly anti-Semitic statements, for instance his talk of “genocidal” teachings in the Jewish religion, in The Fateful Triangle, an accessible and widely-reviewed book.

In other words, Chomsky’s famous ability to obfuscate and the obscurity of most of his publications can only partially explain why his neo-Nazi involvements have escaped wide-spread criticism.

In my view there has been a more fundamental obstacle to an understanding of the Chomsky phenomenon. I think that there is a persisting state of mind that divides the political world into “left” versus “right” and sees the “Left” as essentially incapable of primitive Jew-baiting. Even sophisticated writers can occasionally fall into this trap.
The link wernercohn/google.com

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 5:54 am
The lesser said about Choskey the better. He survives because of the US university policy of “cannot touch a tenured professor”.

He is an apologist for all the mass murderers of twentieth century – Mao Tse Dung, Pol Pot , and even Stalin. An “ideal” example of a man who thrives in the US freedom to drag US in rightful blames and in many cases artificial blames.

The world has caught up to him. The only audience he gerts these days are in third world, whose dictators enjoy blaming the West and colonialists for all their problems.

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 9:37 am
“I think that….”

@ Shan,

After going through so many of your posts- past and present- I am pretty convinced, that you are incapable of thinking. Which is a good thing, because that means that I can safely skip reading any BS you write here, which is precisely what I am going to do from now on.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 2:57 pm
@Bobby, just out of interest where did you discover those words in quote/ununquote, Can’t seem to find in my postings. Morever , though I am more than happy to give my opinion , but in response to Noam Chomsky’s You Tube interview , NONE OF THE WORDS ARE MINE.
Ravi

The OTHERING Process.

In this blog repeatedly attempt is made to:

1. Maximise the threat of Islamic Terrorism, and minimise the threat and practice of terrorism perpetrated by the Hindu Right on Indian Muslims.

2. No attempt is ever made to understand the variety of reasons for what is happening in the Muslim World. The role of USA Middle Easter Policy is always dismissed as inconsequential, where as in reality it is the principle reason for a violent reaction.

3. Muslim society is painted as backward, hypocritical and the Sharia Law is depicted as cruel to women. This is done with total dis-regard to HINDU sanctified, untouchability, child prostitution and a centuries old Apartheid type oppression against the Dalits.

4. Women in Muslim society are shown as being oppressed, while similar oppression against women in the Hindu society is not ever mentioned.

5. Any one who tries to balance this blog by pointing out that things in the Hindu Society are not perfect either, than he/she is instantly labelled as a Pakistani or an ISI agent.

[Reply]
S Singh Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:19 am
Well Mr Ravi, your logic is upside down!

is there any requirement/imposition that while one discusses Islamic terror, one should also discuss all other types of terror; when one discusses the general backwardness of all Muslim countries, one should also discuss backwardness all over the world. No. Because it is Muslim issues that translate into worldwide terrorist attacks.

Listen man, doe s that mean when Muslims kill Muslims in hundred thousands in Sudan, others also should kill ? (oh ya, you said Chinese are causing those murders. US is causing these murders. India is causing that murders!)

A majority, all over the non-Islamic (and may be in some ISsamic countries too) world, has come to teh conclusion that a good percentage of Muslims are murderers, terrorists, women oppressors, backward, less and ill-educated, non-creative, not contibuting anything to the upliftment of the world (please do not bring in about the books published five hundred years ago!).. Nobody else caused this impression; the Muslim behaviour and performance created these impressions; and the only way these impressions can go away is by modifying behaviour, keeping religion personal, beliving in systems of democracy and institutions etc.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 1:03 am
singh jee,

A majority, all over the non-Islamic (and may be in some ISsamic countries too) world, has come to teh conclusion that a good percentage of Muslims are murderers, terrorists, women
why there is no killing where there is no zoinist or their satanic brother.
stupids who thinks that we are killer is on our`foot.we f..k them if they want to deal with us they shld accept as we are.we did not mascare innocents in balkan.where ever there is tension it is because of oil and natural wealth.they did same to africa and latin america.

[Reply]
ram autar

vbgt

[Reply]
ram autar

Women in Muslim society are shown as being oppressed, while similar oppression against women in the Hindu society is not ever mentioned.

women in kerala are least suppressed because of large muslim population.

[Reply]
ram autar

mr singh,The Jews /brhmn talk of love, morality, justice, truth but practice the worst values. Blue Star, Babri Masjid, Gujarat Genocide, Kandhamal are the most famous examples of their talk and action.
That is how in “Hindu India” we find no difference between the words and actions of gandhians, marxists, Hindu terrorists, Dalal Street Dagalbajis. Everything in India is created, promoted and sold for the benefit of the “Jews of India”.

shsn bhai,

ISLAM AS SOLE OBSTACLE
The only obstacle they are facing today is Islam, says Makow.
The most favourite pastimes of the Jews and the “Jews of India” are sex, nudity, homosexuality, binge drinking, cricket, Bollywood pomp and boasting. Their media is nothing but shit so that our souls are fed with saw dust. Those interested in a more elaborate study of the Illulminati, the zionist Jews and their Indian Brahminical counterparts may order photocopy of Protocols of the World of Zion which is the carbon copy of the Chanakya’s Arthasastra.
M.K. Gandhi was not a Brahmin but he promoted Brahminism better than the best Brahmin. Hence he was called “Father of the nation”.

[Reply]
S Singh

As we enter the new year, we again find that the Muslim terrorists do not want people to enjoy life, donot want to enjoy simple things like new year celebration. Four Muslims were arrested in Denmark two days ago for planning a major new year eve blast. Nine Muslims were arrested for planning a 11/26 attack in London for ne w year. And India is on the look out for 4 LeT terrorists who are in the country for triggering another 11/26 (knowing Indian police and intelligence gathering, we will not be as lucky as Danish and English citizens; the history says they will be caught (or not caught) until things ar blown up and carnage happens).

The common element in all of these is PAKISTANI WAHABI MUSLIMS.

The HT blogger who covers foreign affairs says that 2011 will witness threat to India from Somali and Yemenese Muslim terrorists. He says an Indian Muslim terrorist was killed accidentally in Somalia while he was on a training mission! It seems India covered up that news, as ususal, may be not to offend the Muslim voting block!

So, it looks like we will have to blog about these never ending Islamic terrorism next year also. I thought we can take a break from that and instead focus on the intellectual powerhouse of , say, Deoband.

Happy new year all; I pray and hope the four LeT Muslims from Pakistan do not explode in india.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:24 pm
things u mention above happens everyday by hindu terrorists in india.biggest of is spritual fascism .
inteelectual goondaism and spritual fascism are two gignatic octopuses eating the vitals of our society.

[Reply]
ram autar

Fouz, a genius university student, had discovered a new formula for producing peaceful nuclear energy and had been awarded by several international scientific festivals.

He had released his new uranium enrichment formula in a number of western journals.

A member of Fouz’s family told FNA reporter in Baghdad that the young scientist was targeted by unknown gunmen in New Baghdad neighborhood when he was on his way back home.

Earlier reports had shown Mossad’s involvement in the assassination of more than 350 Iraqi nuclear scientists as well as more than 300 university professors, and the attack on Mohammad al-Fouz was the most recent case in a chain of attacks carried out in recent years.

Mossad has also played a major role in the assassination of several Iranian nuclear scientists in recent months.

Two Iranian university professors Fereidoon Abbasi Davani and Majid Shahriari were assassinated in separate terrorist bomb attacks here in Tehran on November 29 with the latter killed immediately after the blast.

Another Iranian university professor and nuclear scientist, Massoud Ali Mohammadi, was also assassinated in a terrorist bomb attack in Tehran in January.

Iranian officials took the Zionist regime of Israel and US hirelings inside Iran responsible for the terrorist operation.

Three days after the attack, Iranian Intelligence Minister Heidar Moslehi announced that his forces have arrested a number of perpetrators.

“With the arrest of these people, we have found new clues to arrest the other elements,” Moslehi added.

“The three spy agencies of Mossad, CIA and MI6 have played a role in these attacks,” Moslehi added.

The Iranian intelligence minister added that the individuals who cooperated with these espionage services were part of an extensive organization and planned to carry out more attacks but they were arrested.

Iranian Interior Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar had underlined that the US, Israeli and British spy agencies have been directly involved in the recent terrorist attacks against the country’s scientists.

“As regards the recent terrorist moves, the involvement of Mossad, CIA, MI6 can clearly be seen,” Najjar told reporters earlier in December.

Earlier this month, Iran announced that security forces have arrested a number of perpetrators of the recent terrorist attacks on the country’s scientists and university professors.

Najjar told reporters at the time that the confessions made by the arrested terrorists indicated Israel’s direct role in the attacks.

“The world Zionism and their arrogant agents, like Mossad, as well as certain European countries are angry at Iran’s progress, and they, thus, resort to terrorist measures against Iranian scientists,” Najjar stated at the time.

[Reply]
S Singh

Happy new year to all, (except Muslims, not because I do not want to, see the next para).

Maulavis of JIH have banned New Year greetings and New year disc jockey music parties. They have also banned DJ music parties at weddings.

May be we should be glad..at least they are not asking the boys to bomb on new year like in Denmark and London!

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 5:39 pm
happy new year to mr singh shan bhai chacha rajeev and shre hegde jee and tajender and booby and bhai ali.

another afzal guru in making.good article by mj akbar.enjoy and abuse jehadis.

Mockery of good sense M J Akbar

27 December 2010 India has become a strange democracy where Binayak Sen gets life in jail and dacoits get a life in luxury. It takes years of pressure for government to move against those looting the nation’s treasury; and when the majestic forces of enforcement do go on a “raid” they give their quarry enough time to remove every trace of evidence.

You have to be exceptionally stupid to store evidence of your own culpability in a telecom scandal where deals were made and money paid three years before. Or, for that matter, even six months ago, as in some instances of the highly lubricated Commonwealth Games. By this time the money has either been spent, converted into assets, or sent to a convenient haven abroad. The political-industrial nexus is above the law, because it controls enforcement. But if the ruling class of India could have hanged Binayak Sen instead of merely trying to send him to jail for the rest of his life, it would have done so.

Binayak made a fundamental, mortal mistake. He was on the side of the poor. That is a non-negotiable error in our oligarchic democracy. Christmas must be truly merry in the homes of Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh, P. Chidambaram and, of course, Raman Singh this year. The Congress and BJP dislike each other with a passion that only a thirst for power can generate; they disagree on just about anything and everything. But there is perfect harmony between them over Naxalite policy. End the Naxalite problem by elimination of the messenger; and the poor will not have the courage to ask for more than the trickle allotted to them by a gluttonous government.

Media is obedient doorman of this nexus, protecting its interests with a zeal that should surprise even the benefactors. The arrest of Binayak was converted into instant accusatory headlines. His trial was ignored by the press, which is why we do not know that there was virtually no substantive evidence.  Suffice it to say that two of Binayak’s jailors, during his detention without bail, were declared hostile by the prosecution.

Prosecuting lawyers are in the pay of government, as are the jailors. And yet two policemen refused to back the prosecution. A fabricated unsigned letter, apparently cooked up on a computer printout, seems to have been sufficient to convince the honourable guardians of our judicial system that Binayak Sen deserved a sentence reserved for only the most hardened murderer.

It is another matter that Binayak Sen, who was senior to me in school, was and remains the gentlest of people, distinguished only by a fierce commitment to his cause of choice. I do not agree with his political views or inclinations; nor does the political system. But it is only in a dictatorship that disagreement is sufficient reason for incarceration. India seems to be developing a two-tier democracy: generosity of the law for the privileged and vindictive, distorted application on the underprivileged.

It is ironic that the Binayak judgment appeared on the front pages of the Christmas day newspapers. Christmas has become an international festival because it represents the most important values that give life some meaning and hold the complex social web together: peace, and goodwill towards all men, without which there cannot be peace.

This goodwill is not sectarian; it is easy to have goodwill towards some men, friends or benefactors. Christmas is the festival of the Other. It is the embrace of the dissident, or even the enemy. The most famous display of the Christmas spirit was the pause on the frontline in the First World War, when a few British and German soldiers announced an impromptu truce, played football, shared a drink and became human for a day before their superiors ordered them to return to the savagery of a terrible war that wrecked Europe.

If Binayak Sen is guilty of sedition on the basis of fictitious evidence, then, as was famously said during the great Gandhian movement against the British between 1919 and 1922, there are not enough jails in India to hold those equally guilty. The reference is not accidental. Governments have begun to opt for a colonial approach towards Naxalism and its myriad manifestations. The reason? Fear, perhaps terror. The corrupt can recognise their nemesis.

The columnist is editor of The Sunday  Guardian, published from Delhi

[Reply]
ram autar

Happy new year to all, (except Muslims, not because I do not want to, see the next para

u r right congratulate us on first muharram.i dont accept any new year greetings.i only give these to
europeans,whom i f..k at first available instance.the moment their liberated girls want me to become their valentine i make them my preffered concubine.after 2 month tajender take them and make her,his most favoured pinpeepine.

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 6:14 pm
it shows the gutter mind of muslims — and the low esteem with which u consider women.. really shameful

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 6:49 pm
delhi is global headquarter of rape and isreal capital of prostitution world.3 european ladied lived in taliban jail converted to islam after seeing their behaviour.after killin billions of women through sati and nari prathas u are becoming their champion.geeta says that killing of women is not sin .those who burn their ladies if they dont bring enough dowry,burn them aliveif husband die leave them in brindavan when become old,are talking bid.european society use the women for better atmosphere of office.if husband is 9 kilometer away from office marriage is broken.in hinduism pati is devta women is to serve them.

what i wrote was i dont who is tajender.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 6:49 pm
what i wrote was joke i dont who is tajender

shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 8:35 pm
@Raju Kurien , history or islamophobia
The obedience to Muhammad as prophet is stressed in an unusual situation. Sura 33:36 notes, “It is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in the affair. Whoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error.” Muhammad intended to marry his cousin Zainab bint Jash to Zaid, his freed slave and adopted son. Zainab and her family refused this proposal at first, but after this revelation had come they could no longer resist, and the two were married.

The story of Zainab has further development. Sale recounts the story of how Muhammad went to Zaid’s house on some business, but he was not home. Muhammad did cast his eyes accidentally on Zainab, “who was then in a dress which discovered her beauty to advantage, and was so smitten at the sight, that he could not forswear crying out, ‘God be praised, who turneth the hearts of men as he pleaseth!” Zainab was flattered by the remark of Muhammad and conveyed the comment to her husband, Zaid. After reflecting on this, Zaid determined to divorce her so that Muhammad could marry her. This revelation seems designed to give Allah’s approval so that no scandal would arise out of the situation. Hence the Qur’an states regarding this episode, “There is no fault in the Prophet, touching what God has ordained for him.” (Sura 33:38)

The Qur’an gives great latitude to Muhammad concerning wives. It says, “O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated with thee, and any woman believer, if she gives herself to the Prophet and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee exclusively, apart from the believers–We know what we have imposed upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own–that there may be no fault in thee.” (Sura 33:50) Sale translates the last thought by these words: “This is a peculiar privilege granted unto thee, above the rest of the true believers.” (p. 415

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Shan-

Let us hope in the new year some level headed Muslims will undertake a reformation, banish the violence and exhortion of killings from the Book, remove the manichean divide of believer and non believer, and view all as children of God.

They wlll kill each other and others in the name of purity; the nation of Pakistan will cease to exist, other Muslims countries will continue their drift downwards, terror factories will move to yemen and Somalia, Sudan will see yet another major roud of violence when south sepaartes from north…..

Only Muslims can save Muslims from Muslims; in that process they will hopefully institute a compassionate Islam.

ram autar Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 12:35 am
shan,u people have nothing to awnser hence takes to character assisnation.bengalees are most non-productive ,argumentative and stupid race of india.all ur talks are full of idiocy.may be because u are filmy puff .in hindi they are called nat.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:03 am
MISHRAJEE U WANTED FEED BACK,Brahminists launch Hindu terrorism to establish Ram Rajya with zionist support
A Brahmin journalist in an article in the Deccan Herald, Bangalore (Nov.23, 2009), expressed serious “Hindu fears” that they have “begun to lose faith in the ability of the Indian state to secure rule of law”. He was criticising the Maharashtra police for arresting notorious Brahminical terrorists for a series of killings of Muslims.

The arrest was made by the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant Karkare, also a Maharashtrian Brahmin, since killed in the famous Bombay terrorist attack of Nov. 26, 2008 (read the book, Who Killed Karkare? by S.M. Mushrif, Retd. IG of police, Maharashtra, copies of the book can be had from Dalit Voice office, Rs. 300).

Chitpavan leadership: Both the Maharashtra Govt. and the Union Govt. have been so far mum on the large-scale “Hindu terrorism” because they know those involved in all such heinous crimes that killed hundreds of Muslims (list given below) were mostly Maharashtrian Brahmins, that too the Chitpavan Brahmins. It was a Chitpavan Brahmin Nathuram Godse who killed the “father of the Hindu nation”, M.K. Gandhi.

When we inquired with the Maharashtra political leadership, they said the govt. was afraid of the Brahminical backlash — with the media totally in their hands.

What? The mighty govt. itself afraid of the mere 2% Brahminical people when Muslims, the victims of their terrorism, were 15%?

The clout of this class of people can be gauged from the utter helpless of even the Govt. of India though it was fully convinced of the crimes of such Brahmins. Has the govt. got the courage to punish Kalmadi, the notorious thug heading the Commonwealth Games, looting hundreds of crores of rupees?

Abhinav Bharat: Even the Prime Minister defended the fraudster because Kalmadi belonged to Pune, the stronghold of the Chitpavan Brahmins. Who can touch the founders of the Hindu terrorist, RSS, and now the super-RSS called Abhinav Bharat?

It was only the upright police officer, Karkare, who arrested the whole lot of the Brahmin terrorist troupe and put them in the jail. And to get Karkare killed the Bombay Terrorist attack of (2008) was staged. This is the thesis of the upright police officer, S.M. Mushrif, in his book, Who Killed Karkare? (2010, Rs. 300, pp.330, copies available with Dalit Voice) But this book was totally blacked out by the media which often screams about “freedom of the press”.

It took several years for the Govt. of India to admit the existence of Brahminical terrorism — though its security arms go out of the way to reel out all sorts of heinous story of crimes against Muslims.

Home Minister’s cover-up: Finally the Tamil Chettiar, Home Minister Chidambaram (Aug.25, 2010) vaguely hinted about the existence of “saffron terror”. He dare not say it is “Hindu terrorism” — not to speak of Brahminist terrorism.

Why Chidambaram was window dressing the Brahminical terrorism? The fact is the Govt. of India itself is under the mercy of this micro-minority Bhoodevatas who are above the govt. India’s political leadership, bureaucrats, security set-up, media and all those who matter in India, stylishly called “opinion-makers”, are all Brahminical — representing less than 15% of the upper caste rulers.

This is the problem — and the problem of India. To cover up these facts, the rulers are shouting and screaming about “Islamic terrorism” to divert public opinion with the help of their Brahminical media.

DV has said this many, many times but who cares for our little voice — soon facing extinction leaving the road free for the free-booters.

The Times of India (Aug.26, 2010), India’s principal Brahminical daily, reported all the anti-Muslim terrorist cases: Mecca Masjid (Hyderabad, May 18, 2007), Ajmer, (Oct.1, 2007), Malegaon (Maharashtra-Sept.18, 2006); Madasa (Gujarat and the one in Goa.

Super RSS named: All these cases are with the police, but completely controlled by the Intelligence Bureau. In all these cases the police have named the culprit, the Brahminical super RSS, Abhinav Bharat.

There are many more cases but the Brahminist power controlling the police and the Govt. — nay the country itself — are trying to suppress everything. The Times earlier (June 23, 2010) listed the following 11 cases of Hindu terrorism and also said all these are linked to Abhinav Bharat.

Oct.16, 2009: A bomb went of in Margao, Goa, while it was being transported to target site killing two persons carrying the bomb. NIA charge-sheeted 11 people, members of the Hindu right wing group, Sanatan Sanstha.

April 4, 2009: A bomb planted in a Beed mosque went off. Ashok Lande (21), Mayur Lande (20) and Tulsidas (Lande 17), arrested for making and planting bomb.

Sept.29, 2008: RDX bomb blast in Malegaon. Six killed, 101 injured. Eleven members of Abhinav Bharat and Vande Mataram Jan Kalyan Samiti arrested.

Aug.24, 2008: Two Bajrang Dal members, Rajiv alias Piyush Mishra and Bhupinder Singh, killed inside a hostel room while making a bomb in Kanpur, UP.

March 2008: A bomb went off at a Panvel cinema. Six persons, two of then Sanatan Sanstha members, arrested.

June 4, 2008: Six persons, two of them Sanatan sanstha members, arrested for planting a bomb at Thane’s Gadkari Rangayatan.

Oct.11, 2007: Blast at Ajmer shrine. Three killed.

May 18, 2007: Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad. Nine killed, more than 58 injured. Two RSS members arrested.

2006: Dr. Hemant Chalke and Mangesh Nikam involved in Ratnagiri blast.

Aug.2004: Two Bajrang Dal members threw a bomb at Jalna’s Qadriya mosque during Friday prayers. Four Bajrang Dal members arrested.

Aug.27, 2004: Bomb blast at Porna’s Madrassa Meraj-ul-Uloom. Four Bajrang Dal members were arrested.

It is very difficult to get at the truth in India — that too when Brahminists are the perpetrators of the crime.

Lt. Col. Purohit as chief villain: Who are the top criminals involved in the series of killings of Muslims? The Times (Jan.23, 2009) gave their names and their detailed descriptions and background. Topping the list is the arch villain, the Pune Chitpavan Brahmin, Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit (37), who is a serving army officer — still not dismissed despite the tons of crimes he committed.

We are reproducing the above Times report because all other Brahminical “national” toilet papers suppressed all the facts as their favourite jatwalas are involved.

No courage to prosecute culprits: A dozen of the Brahminist “terrorists” are arrested. Earlier, they were in Bombay’s Arthur Rd. Jail but later transferred to Nasik. Startling facts of their crimes have been revealed but the govt. has no courage to punish them — though several years have passed.

Look at the strength and influence of this micro-minority 2% Brahminical people.

Reports say Col. Purohit secured RDX explosives from the Army itself. That means he has a large number of jatwala sympathisers at the top level in the Army. RDX is available only with the military. He travelled to the world’s sole arch- racist state of Israel which gladly gave him lavish response because he represented the “Jews of India”. Funds, arms and ammunitions were given in plenty.

Jews & “Jews of India”: How accurate is the DV theory that the Jews and the “Jews of India” are brothers. Can we get a better proof than this axis of two killer gangs? In the Malegaon case, the police disclosed the involvement of Himani Savarkar, niece of the notorious Chitpavan Brahmin, Nathuram Godse, who killed Gandhi, and daughter-in-law of Narayan Savarkar, the brother of the so-called Veer Savarkar. The “Brahminical terrorism” is so all-powerful that the police have no courage to disclose anything about Himani.

Who killed Karkare?: The entire credit for catching all these criminals parading as Hindu heroes, goes to Hemant Karkare, ATS chief. That is why he was mysteriously shot dead in the Bombay terrorist attack. Again everything was hushed up. Why? Mushrif has answered the question.

RSS surrender to AB: Reports said the widow of Karkare was offered Rs. 1 crore by the Brahminical criminals who plotted the Karkare murder so that she would keep her mouth shut. The Abhinav Bharat (AB) has become more powerful than the hydra-headed RSS serpent. It has now branches all over India. There were reports that it would finish off the RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat, also a Chitpavan Brahmin, if he were to go against the AB dictates. The RSS has simply surrendered to AB. The famous Ram Sene headed by Pramod Mutalik, which created havoc in Karnataka and made the ruling Brahmana Jati Party (BJP) so unpopular even among the upper castes, is part of the AB. RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) has been simply silenced and dwarfed.

Brahmins losing faith in Indian state: Coming back to the subject of Deccan Herald article that “Hindus are losing faith in the Indian state”, we are at a loss to understand how the very ruling class lording over India and its 1,300 million population for thousands of years is “losing faith in the Indian state”. Every Prime Minister, whoever he is or whichever party he belongs, is a puppet in their hands. They not only run the govt., control its finances but govern the country’s very value system.

Not one person in India, not even its PM, has the courage to criticise this ruling class. And yet the rulers are “losing faith in the Indian state”. What is the meaning of this?

Wanted: rule of Manu: We met some hard-core Brahmins and sought their reaction to the DH article. They frankly confessed that they would not be happy until they established the Brahminical dictatorship over the Aryavarta as envisaged in the Manu Dharma Sastra.

What they mean is they want the existing Indian constitution be scrapped, and replaced by the constitution propounded by their jatwala Manu. (photocopies of Manu’s law available with DV, RS. 450).

They want the existing legislature, judiciary and even the executive scrapped and all “religious minorities” made to live at their mercy. They want India to go back to the Vedic Age under the dictatorship of the Bhoodevatas. Such an ideal setup would pave the way to the Ram Rajya in which their favourite god Ram threw his loving wife, Sita, to the forest and allowed her to die. This is Ram Rajya.

Full support from Israel: They said they hated the SC/ST reservations, and the OBCs creating all the nuisance, the courts constantly coming in the way of Hindu temples amassing all the wealth. Their hatred is mainly directed against the Muslims and Christians who are already living under the Brahminical mercy. Even this “little freedom” given only on paper must be scrapped.

Full hope in Israel: We asked them how they would establish the Ram Rajya when their own favourite Brahmana Jati Party (BJP) was defeated. They said the Congress proved to be a better Brahminical party.

But their main hope today was in the zionist state of Israel — the world’s only exclusive racist state. Israel has offered them all-out support to establish their dream state of Ram Rajya in India. But the point is Israel has not succeeded in ousting the Muslim Palestinians from their dream state. Israel is already hated by a major portion of the world. With the defeat of US in Iraq and Afghanistan, the rise of China as a super power and Iran becoming a nuclear power, where is the chance for Israel to rise?

Waiting for World War-III: The Brahminists reply is all this will be achieved once the World War-III begins paving the way for the establishment of Zionist state in Israel and the “Jews of India” establishing their racist Ram Rajya. Wonderful.

Look, where it is all leading to. Hate creating more hate and devouring its own creators: the Jews and the “Jews of India”. Those days are nearing.

******************************************************************

Key accused
(1). Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit (37): He is the brain behind the Sept.29, 2008 blasts and the man that held it all together. He was the founder and one of the chief fund-raisers of the Pune-based organisation, Abhinav Bharat. He is also accused of procuring the RDX that was used in the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.5, 2008).

(2). Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur (38): Her bike was used to plant the bomb in Malegaon, and she is accused of engineering the blast. She has a Masters in History, and became a sadhvi in Jan.2007. (She was arrested on Oct.23).

(3). Rakesh Dhawde (35): Dhawde, an arms expert, has been booked for four previous bomb blast cases. He provided the required weapon training and supplied arms to Purohit. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(4). Swami Dayanand Pandey alias Shankar Acharya alias Sukhakar Dwuvedi (40): He can be seen as the key point man and is said to have been present at the meetings held in Bhopal, Pune and Faridabad before the Malegaon blasts. He is also accused of conducting meetings with the other accused. Prior to his arrest, he ran two ashrams in Kanpur and Jammu and Kashmir. (He was arrested on Nov.14, 2008).

(5). Retd. Maj. Ramesh Upadhyaya (64): A resident of Akurdi, Pune, he worked with the military’s intelligence unit, and is suspected to have provided the training required for procuring and assembling the bombs. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(6). Ajay Rahrikar (39): He was the treasurer of the Abhinav Bharat, and a part of the fund-raisers group. He paid Rs. 2.5 lakh to Swami Dayanand Pandey prior to the blast. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(7). Jagdish Mhatre (40): A habitual criminal and an accused in a murder and an extortion case in Kalyan and Thane, he is believed to have paid Dhawde for the weapons. (He was arrested on Nov.2, 2008).

(8). Sameer Kulkarni (32): A former member of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidhyarthi Parishad (ABVP), he was employed at a printing press. He is suspected to have supplied the chemicals used in the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.28, 2008).

(9). Sudhakar Chaturvedi (37): Originally a resident of Mirzapur in UP, Chaturvedi was picked up from Deolali where he stayed in a rented room. He is accused of conspiracy; the bomb was assembled in his house. (He was arrested on Nov.4, 2008).

(10). Sham Bhanwarlal Sahu (42): He is suspected to be one of the bomb planters. A commerce graduate from Christian College in Indore, Sahu has a mobile phone shop and also acted as a realty broker. He is also accused of abetting the blasts and conspiracy. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

(11). Shivnarayan Kalsangra Singh (36): A BSc graduate, Singh is seen as a “mechanical and electrical” expert by the ATS. He is suspected to have assembled the timer device while making the bomb. (He was arrested on Oct.23, 2008).

[Reply]
ram autar

raju kurien why u were silent when these europeans killed 200000 muslim civilians in last balkan wars.u forgot the atrocities sebernica and other muslim pockets by torchbearer of justice and tolerance.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 7:36 pm
u forgot the atrocities&mascares on sebernica and other muslim pockets by torchbearer of justice and tolerance.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Haram Autar, what was your HIGHLY DEVOLOPED IN SCIENCE AND VERY POWERFUL MILITARILY,
CONTRIES , IRAN AND PAKISTAN DOING, eating khajur.

[Reply]
ram autar

they don eat t khajur , they are f king european women.but u r indian why u want to remain tail of europe and america..do something urslf.armies has no role in victory.it is always will of the people..more determined always defeat less determined.
in last arab israeli war ,israeli ambassdor in un wa roaring like lion,after 34 days he could be seen as cat pleading for ceasefire.2000 hizbollah guerillas defated 85000 israeli army with most modern aircraft and tanks.though america shipped deadly weapon before start of war.
now they understand that their force can destroy few buildings.not the will of people.
we are not eating khajurs we are giving khajoor and best food to everyone in world.
in bosnian war sheikh zayed ordered free kitchen tfacilities to everyone in bosnia herzegovina.
muslims fight but dont do mascares.in sebrica village more than 8000 hapless armless citizen were taken out from their houses and killed.perpetuators of that mascare is still at large.in last
gaza war zoists killed 1400 childrens,purposely killed baby girls.but could not achieve their aim of greater israel.shan still u are slightly better than nirad choudhri,ex-clerk of british company.

[Reply]
ram autar

Haram Autar, what was your HIGHLY DEVOLOPED IN SCIENCE AND VERY POWERFUL MILITARILY,
CONTRIES , IRAN AND PAKISTAN DOING, eating khajur.

[Reply]

u have seen ur fathers polishing the shoes of white skin u cannot think other than this.i think u are all habitual of as.. licking of british empire.go and practice on song which white will appreciate.
also dont tell to anybody that hindi of ***** is janana kutta.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Islam — a gift that goes on giving!

Latest fro a scholar (?)!

Shabha-al-awadia, one of the leaders of the International union of Muslim Scholars founded by (Another hyphen al) Yusuf-al=-Quadrawi in an interview in Riyadh ” The Muslim terrorists work in the service of Israel and Zionist movement; they are tools in the hands of zionists, Israelis, Europeans, and Orientals, with the goal of destroying Islam”

Chutzpa? Delusion? from Mars? (and I wonder why he did US out; he included Chinese!)

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 12:35 am
murda jaag uthaa.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 12:39 am
nobody can destroy islam.saudi rulers are zoinists.local population called alqaida wants freedom.simply they maowadis of saudia.

[Reply]
shan

@Ashish, gross digression, non the less quite important and very sad and baffling. This is about Arushi Talwar case , I saw in NDTV today. Can you throw some light. The CBI is disgraceful, they cannot charge her dad , but named her as suspect.In UK you can arrest someone on suspicion but have to release within seventy two hrs unless you file a charge against him. I cant understand why this is not SLANDER. The fact that they felt uneasy about vaginal swab and other forensic modalities to establish if she was sexually active, is understandable in a middle class Indian setting. This is where Calcutta Police IF THEY WANT OR ALLOWED TO WORK produce incredible results. I have never doubted the Cerebral potency of Bengalees, Fish eating has definitely a role, In UK they are giving fish oil capsules to kids in north of england , where they persistantly score below average in national tests.Your opinion will be appreciated.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

@ Shan, ramautar, Ravi, Singh, Bobby, Tejender- can I respectfully say that you all have degenerated this blog to a level of personal attacks on each other and on each others religions.
You have put your respective countries ( India, Pakistan) to shame.

Considering that you all are intelligent humans, as your extensive research shows, it is really disgusting to be scoring meaningless points so.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Please shut up, everyone. Your hatred percolates down and sets off some suicide bomber or a terrorist.

Dr Dev Mishra, India and UK

[Reply]
Bobby Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 11:11 am
“Please shut up, everyone..”

@Mishra, who the hell are you? mind your own business and get lost.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Mishrajee, aap ka holy thread samalho, bakwas muth karo, Bobby aur sare log bahut sare bat per charcha kartey hein jo aap jaisay cow belt walo ke liye nahin.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Dr Mishra,

Let me be the first one to apologise to you for any personal attacks made against you by any one.

I do not believe that I have ever attacked you but I take collective responsibility on behalf of those who have.

I agree with you that lively debate is one thing and stooping to attack other people and their religion is uncalled for.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 4:37 pm
mishra jee u are right .yahan koi pakistani nahin hain.hum sab ek hi kutiya ke pilley hain.kal sab dost hon jaige.shan hilley andey ki paideish hai uska koi theek nahin hai.sab ka sar phale bahar aata iska haath aya tha kyonkee hospital ke samne tabla baj raha tha.jab tak nurse nahi aye to usne isko dance karte paya.yeh nityanand bante bante rah gaya.

mishrajee hum aap ke saath hain.

[Reply]
shan Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@ram autar , mishrajee ya pandit ji ka ga… chat ne sey koi fayda nahi hoga , kew ki panditji aap ka SAAYA un per gir ne sey pinditji ko fir nahana parega.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Muslim gift — a gift that goes on giving!

The mullas and fundamentalist Muslims did a nationwide demonstration in Pakistan today to warn government against any cahnge in the blasphemy law; the law institured by the general who ruined PAkistan, Zia Haq. This law is used primarily to persecute min orities; like the recent Aisha case where she was given a death sentence (Prime Minister and President and many legislators wanted to release her).

Mr Hasan, chairman of human rights organization said that Pakistan is moving to a dangerous situation where mpoderate voices are suppressed by the hard core extremists who are hijacking the country. He said years of military rule and suppression of democratica nd moderate voice has given way to extremists to fill the void.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 11:09 am
hegde,happy new year.the same blasphamy is applied in uk against those who abuses jesus christ.in pakistan where president takes 1 billion per day as bribe can support or oppose anything according to their gain.this women will be released if she take back her words.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 4:34 pm
It seems sheri Rehman, ex minister and member of parliament, brought the amendmend for discussion; however it was voted down. Now there is a movement that she should resign because she does not pronounce some quranic words right.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

Happy New Year to All!

This article is the cover article of the first issue of NY Times Magazine for 2011.
A very heart-warming one; I almost cried. Just imagine the transformational power of millions of Ravindra Marsals all across the vast Indian land.
A very motivating one indeed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/magazine/02striver-t.html

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

oops…the link is

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/magazine/02striver-t.html?emc=eta1

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/magazine/02Striver-t.html

[Reply]
Raju Kurien Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Excellent article; just imagine millions of entrepreneurs , leaders, role-models like Ravindra from all the villages and small towns!

I will not worry about them not knowing about Ashoka etc. 1)They would have learned that from their normal curriculam and/or 2) Whatever made Ashoka etc stay in teh Indian mind will continue to be in existence; no reason to worry they all will disappear..

Very inspiring and motivational…

[Reply]
L Mirza Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
right way to start the year! Motivational..

[Reply]
shan Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@Binoy, OUTSTANDING ARTICLE, your earlier links blocked access. What is shows is ENGLISH education is the key. It simply will CATAPULT to a different world.The moment education becomes egalitarian , there wont be an india that we know of.but the spoilers (sorry being of a particular vocation , always need to be on the guard) ZIA , OWAISI will fight tooth and nail to see the QUOM gets only madrassah education.SHIV SENA , RAM SENE, MNS(Goonda RAJ) and the biggest hurdle SCUMMUNIST PARTY OF INDIA will resists all attempts for a mass compulsory ENGLISH MEDIUM SCHOOL, (they removed English from schools in WB upto class seven), for these will open their world of internet. I vividly remember a Bearded closet Jihadi in PEACE TV of zakir Naik ,screaming his heart out and telling his FLOCK “please please please please DO NOT VISIT THE INTERNET”

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Actully there was a report recently about Internet usage; although still a smaller share of the total population, India has one of the highest growth rate in internet use.

Technologies like Internet, cell phone etc are at the end of the day “levellers”, enabling rich and poor. Coupled with English as you mentioned, will propel many into middle class.

The prognosis on india is darn good, despite what communists and secularists may say about Devdasi and Manu smrithi (just like that article talks about who will “follow Ashoka”, we do not have to worry about losing insights on Manusmrithi–our fellow bloggers will be the keepers!)

[Reply]
ram autar

Bangladeshi Muslim professor in a London University, Dr. Momin Chaudhary, in his book, Budhism in South Asia, says the Aryans, meaning Brahmins, met with stiff resistance from the original inhabitants of India, namely Dalits. Budha supported India’s original inhabitants to fight the invading Brahmins. For over 1,000 years Budhism ruled India. This was the “golden period” of Indian history. When the Brahmins failed to defeat Budhism, they infiltrated it. Some became Budhists and fought from within. Kerala’s notorious Adi Shankara and his Brahmin army fought our people, massacring the Budhists, destroying their religious places, libraries and historical monuments.

The wholesale massacre of Budhism proves that Hinduism is the world’s most violent religion. Who says Hinduism stands for non-violence? Bullshit? Read this book, Violence in Hinduism, (DSA-1986) by Prof. K.S. Bhagvan of Mysore University.

When Budhism was finally destroyed within India, Budhists fled to China and other South East Asian countries which became Budhist en bloc.

Budhists, who failed to defeat Brahmins, then got converted to Islam and again fought the same Brahmins. Such a centuries-old rivalry between Brahminism and Dalits will continue until we kill the venomous cobra and liberate India.

The Muslims of Bihar and those from undivided Bengal, which includes Bangladesh, were all originally Dalits. And sworn enemies of Brahminism

My point is the Dalits and Brahmins have been like mongoose and serpent. The two are blood enemies. Read our book, Hindu Serpent Vs. Muslim Mongoose

[Reply]
Raghavendra Reply:
January 27th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Mr ram autar

i feel like laughing at your lack of knwledge when it comes to history.

buddhists left india not because of Adi shankara but a person before him named KUMARILA BHATTA a vedic scholar. nobody vanadalised buddhist temples. there was philosophical debate between buddhists and kumarila bhatta and his disciples. shri Kumarila bhatta had challenged the buddhists that he would jump in to fire if he loses to buddhists in debate and his condition to buddhists was that they all should leave india if they lose ti this vedic scholar.

when all buddhists lost to that vedic scholar in debate they had to leave india as per agreement before the debate. if indeed buddhism was as great as you make out it would have withstood all hurdles and still would have been biggest religion of india.

truth is majority of indians dont want your useless buddhist philosophy.
i can give you many historical instances of buddhist vanadalism on vedic religion.
Ram autar vedic religion will suffer nothing if all DALITS of indian leave it and convert to buddhism.
vedic religion will still live and grow stronger. it is not dependent on one caste or group to survive.

[Reply]
S Singh

Binoy-

Thanks for that article. Let us hope and pray for many mnay Ravindras. With these type sof leaders, our rural villages will be transformed, and future only will be brighter for India.

It also shows one need not get into dirty politics or cate based prgrams to get out of any restrictiosn and rise above. Ravindra story is a storoy that will be followed by all irrespective of caste/religion; Ravindra will eb a hero for all Indians just like Hon’ble Abdul Kalam was.

Time for chronic compaliners to follow people like RAvindra and achieve in life, rather than the constant whining and laziness.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

What would our new found hero Ravindra Masal make of some of his countrymen who spend hundreds of hours on this blog running others and their communities and religions down?
Presumably, he has got where he is by treating everyone with respect and affection, and with hard work.
I know I told some ppl to shut up. Some took it well, some did not. But no one challenged me on my last sentence which was not well written- “Your hatred percolates down and sets off some suicide bomber or a terrorist”.
What did I mean there? Is hatred not a spectrum? Where at the mildest end you have internet trolls – obsessively focussed on their pet hate, and on the other side you have the suicide bomber. Do we educated ppl in India and Pak not have a responsibilty to keep our hatred levels down, for maybe somewhere, there is one radicalised Individual who imbibes this anti Hindu/ brahmin/ Indian vitriol and sets off on his last march with a lethal rucksack on his back, whether he is a Naxal or Kasab Pakistani.

Am I being dramatic?

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Dr Mishra

Yes you are not only being dramatic, but also one sided.

Can this kind of internet not excite a Hindu and he goes and commits a terrorist act. Or you have swallowed the propaganda of Hindu’s being peaceful.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

sorry post cut off – cont-

Am I being dramatic? Have you heard of Saurabh Kalia? He was an Indian soldier captured and killed in Kargil. You say- killings happen in wars- that is tragic- read on- “The postmortem revealed that the Pakistan army had indulged in the most heinous acts; of burning their bodies with cigarettes, piercing ear-drums with hot rods, puncturing eyes before removing them, breaking most of the teeth and bones, chopping off various limbs and private organs of these soldiers besides inflicting all sorts of physical and mental tortures before shooting them dead, as evidenced by the bullet wound to the temple.”

And here we Indians are- not united at all, attacking each other, sleepwalking into disaster till Kasab 2 or Kargil 2 happens.

Please debate sensibly, politely and be united- all Indians- hindus, muslims, OBCs whatever etc etc
Dr Dev Mishra

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Dr Mishra.

You ahve obviously not heard of Abu Ghraib and Gunatanome

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:19 pm
All in Guantanamo , except less than 10, are terrorists. In fact, some of them who were released, were caught after committing terrorist acts (and after Saudi Reformation camps)..

One can take issue with Abu Garib and Iraq invasion. But contrary to what Muslims believe, I personally do n ot think it was a Christian Govt attack on a Muslim land. In the aftermath of 9/11, US could not just leave it to chance about Iraqui dictator gving weapons of MD to the terrorists. US should not have attacked; I still feel that they could have taken Sadddam out in many other ways other than by conducting war.

Now since ‘preemptive strike” is hard wired in the policy, US will continue to use that argument in future attacks.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Binoy

Total Ba Humbug.

No one now beleives that Saddam Hussain had any weapons of Mass Destruction. There was no individual terrorism in Iraq while he was the dictator.

All of that cam after the Iraq war.

shan Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:04 pm
@binoy , i have to disagree , Iraq invasion was plain STUPID , leaving aside all moral stipulations ,just from plain american geopolitical interest . it was a crass act and dragged america’s name into the gutters, YET ACHEIVED NOTHING.

ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:02 am
99%of guanatanamo bay prisoners are innocent .most of poor pakistanis sold their brothers for 5000 dollar tob settle family loan.tell me if any one is punished.zoinist are keeping them to continue the atmosphere of fear .which is required to take civil liberties of americans.
sept 11 was part of this game.like bomb blast in egypt on chrismas day.this was zoinist plot.IN INDIA THEIR LOCAL AGENTS ARE CAUGHT IN BOMBING BUSSINES.london bombing was also their game.courier boys hardly know waht is in bag.netanyahoo was in london and supervising the operation.
the whole idea is to capture middle east like australia and newzealand.they have media in their hand.with the help of local administration they continue this game of muslim capturing ,to sell high tech device at high prices.in american airporports through scanning machinbes they inspect every part female and smile.okhlahama bombing was done by a christian.

main aim and game of muslim terrorism is to take back civil liberties from american,which were given to save jews.hardly anybody got punished.now australianis paying heavy compnsation to muslim boy.they did not leave even our lady ambassdor.nose and ears of bjp ex-chief minister of madhya pardesh were inspected for half an hour.

islamophobia is fabricated to take back civil liberties.
D Mishra, UK

I have to preempt ramautar and Ravi here, for they just may say that my posts have been anti Pak or anti Muslim Far from it, I hope that I have dispassionately analysed the evidence or facts and presented it in, I hope a scientific or factual way. I hope that I have also remained focussed on the topic of this blog- which is greater, hindu or muslim terror.
A sample of my post from before-

“Ravi, If someone goes to an airport, a railway station or a shopping center with his family in the last 10 years, anywhere in the world- India, USA, UK or Pakistan, who of the following is more likely to rain him with bullets or a suicide bomb-

- a bania loan shark from a village in India who oppresses dalits
- a christian hell bent on conversions
- a jewish settler in Hebron
- a chinese illegal migrant
or a young muslim male of Pakistani origin?

Who do you think, Ravi? If you were in charge of airport security in New York or Mumbai, who are you looking for- Swedish grannies or young muslim men?”

Peace out

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Dr Mishra.

A lot of words, but not a single point what so ever.

Never ever ever ever ever, I have suggested that their is no Terrorism perpetrated by Muslims, There is and bags of it.

The points I have made are:

1. This Islamic terrorism is transient and will one day go away. It is not homogeneous in its origins, purposes, MOs and/or funding arrangements. LeT is a deniable extension of Pakistan Army. Al Qaida is primarily anit-USA, Afghan Taliban are Islamic Fundo’s,

2. More than 99% of Muslims are peace loving and themselves do not know how to deal with this resurgence in Fundo Islam.

3. I very firmly believe that a large proportion of Indian population has little or no human rights and therefore lives under constant threat of Hindu Terrorism.

4. The Hindu Right – which freely practices terrorism in pursuit of its political objectives – much much greater threat to India than Islamic terrorism is.

Personally, I do not care if you are an Isamophobe or not. That is entirely a personal matter for you.

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Ravi-

You continue to maintain that Islamic terrorism will one day go away. How do you know that? I would like to know how that thesis is formed – is it based on ground realities, or hope ..or the capture of leaders like OBL, Alswhri, Awlicki , regional leaders in Somalia etc.. or like banning of Maudidi books in Bengla Desh..

Would like to know the facts, logic, reasoning behind that assertion. Would love to know where you are coming from on this.

Happy new year – hope 2011 is good for all (including Muslims worldwide).

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 pm
Binoy

I know that just as you the – islamophobe – knows that it will not.

All throughout the 70s there was LEFTIST terrorism in Europe. Remember the Bader Meinhoff gang. IRA and ETA spent 20 years terrorising. Both no longer use terror as a political weapon., because they realised that TERROR does not pay.

Similarly the Islamists will realise the damage terror does to their own majority and they will stop. This is very visible in the Majority UK population, the fundo’s are a tiny minority

Christian fundamental books in USA are more terrifying than any Islamic book you can name. People get wise of this, the only people who take such stuff seriously is people like YOU.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Ravi-

I am not an Islamaphobe (and I think anybody can be an Islamaphobe and I will not consider that as a negative; every individual has his and her own reasons to form opinions based on what they observe, what they see, what they analyze..)

IRA was not a world-wide stuff; operated within Northern ireland only – Catholics worldwide did not travel to otehr countries and self explode.. Eurpean terrorism was restricted to specific countries, and to some extent it is there even now, ie Spain.

You say Islamists will realize the damage. The indications so far are that they do not care..their traveling salesmen explode all over the world; not a specific country. I do understand your reasoning from a specific country perspective; but these people are not motibvated b y a country (at least i think so), the motivation is something beyond “ordinry mortals” can explain; and in that case what/who can stoip them?

I do not know about Christian fundamentalist books; but I am not aware of any Christian fundamentalist exploding in US, Europe, PAkistan, India , Saudi, Yemen or wherever for his God.

Also, does it make any difference if they are only a minority? (or are you implying that at one time a majority was influenced by the terrorist ideas and now it ahs come down to a minority?)Obviosuly the bad ones anywhere will be a minority. As we know few bad apples do create major catastrophes.

Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Binoy

So you are not aware of Christian Fundamentalist Books which state that GOD created the universe in 7 days, etc etc. I suggest that you brush up, after all you live there.

So you bone of contention is not whether Terrorism is good or bad, but where geographically it can be practised.

YOU ARE WRONG.

IRA’s enemy was the UK, and it bombed every where in the UK. London, Brighton, Birmingham, just to quote a few.

ETA is against the Spanish Government and it bombed Madrid, and Barcelona, etc.

Islamic Fundo’s and Al Qaida, consider the WEST as its enemies so it bombs in the WEST or WESTERN interests elsewhere.

Pakistan Taliban, considers the Pakistan Army and the rest of its establishment as its enemy, so it bombs within Pakistan.

Binoy – at least two blogs ago us two had agreed that we view the world events through different glasses. I feel no further purpose can be achieved us two discussing an more.

Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Ravi-
Whatever the Rightwing Christians’ books says, what I said was that I have yet to see a fundamentalist christian terrorist exploding in the name of his God. whereas one sees many “alla hu Akbar” guys (and gals).

yes you are reiterating what I said about IRA, ETA ec.. they are country focused, within the country from which they want to separate and be independent. So IRA bombed in many parts of England. But Catholics did not tarvel from Italy to bomb in UK. They did not tarvel fom US to bomb in UK. and IRA folks di not go to bomb other countries sympathetic to UK.

We are seeing a different and incomprehensible (to many; based on opinion polls) one – where foot soldiers go from Kazakastan to Pakistan, from Pakistan to Manhattan, fom UK to Peshawar, from Somalia to Denmark – the supply seems endless and ever springing.
The hatred is expressed against people, countries, systems, may be even music. The list gets expanded every day!
-

Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Binoy

That is because you only see Allah Ho Akbar guys – that is why you are an Islamophobe.

Look up terrorism by the Pro-Life groups against Abortion Clinics in USA. They are a part of the Christian Fundos.

You did not quite understand the concept of W E S T do you. Al Qaida is anti W E S T, which bit of this is difficult for you to understand.

I R E S T M Y C A S E.

No more. Youn are on your own.

Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 pm
Binoy

Just to start you off.

Anti-abortion violence is violence committed against individuals and organizations that provide abortion.[1] Incidents of violence have included destruction of property, in the form of vandalism, to crimes against people, including kidnapping, stalking, assault, attempted murder, and murder, to crimes affecting both people and property, including arson and bombings.

Anti-abortion violence is most frequently committed in the United States, though it has also occurred in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand.[citation needed] G. Davidson Smith of Canadian Security Intelligence Service defined anti-abortion violence as “single issue terrorism”.[2] A study of 1982–87 violence considered the incidents “limited political” or “subrevolutionary” terrorism.[3]

Ravi Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Binoy

Some more facts for you.

TROY NEWMAN is worried.

Newman is president of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue, which for years has targeted the Wichita, Kan., abortion clinic of Dr. George Tiller. Seven years ago, the group even moved its headquarters to Wichita–the better to harass Tiller, his employees and his patients, up close and personal.

But now Dr. Tiller, one of a small number of doctors anywhere in the U.S. who would perform late-term abortions, has been murdered–shot in the face (to avoid his bullet-proof vest) as he attended church on June 1, allegedly by anti-abortion activist Scott Roeder.

shan Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:06 pm
1%of 1.3 billion is heck of a large number of terrorist worldwide.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:11 am
dr i will go in background ,tell me the name muslim boy/girl who have done any harm at airport.
i will search zoinist .it is he ,who will plant the bomb and put blame on some innocent muslim.
in destroying countries after countries to fulfil their imperialistic ego ,they are creating terrorists.
no afghan was in sept 11 plane why they attacked afghanistan.they knew that the area is full of natural resources.so SHURU KARO ANTHAKCHARI,LE KAR HARI KA NAAM.kll them as they beat their wives,though we make blue film of our wives and sell them in market to buy whisky.

[Reply]
Azhar Hussain

@D Mishra

A illegal settlers from Europe have been killing Palestinians for 50 yrs in illegally occupied land.

And Can you without any bias (which is extremely hard to come from the Non-Muslims) tell us how many Muslims have been killed by non-Muslims in the last say 30 yrs

I wish You guys a Happy New Year

[Reply]
Binoy Hegde Reply:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Azhar

Palestinian issue has to be solved by Palestinians, and nearby neighbours. Saudi Arabia does not want Palestinia stte or Palestinians. they are dealing with Israel, not just USA. Saduid does not want iran to have a bomb.

The focus of muslims – “muslim land 9as if God created a land for Muslims), kauffers, infidels, etc- have to change to universal brotherhood, inclusiveness..Unfortunately Muslims (some) are creating mayhems all over the world.. Look what happened oin Egypt over new year. The image people see is where Muslims are killing people. – Egypt, Pakistan, US, UK, Denmark…wherever.. Unless that image changes, perceptions remain as reality; Majority of the world population will view Muslims with fear, Muslims will get marginalized further, etc etc. No amount of blame or rationalization is going to change the perception; only ceasing from terrorism will change the image.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:14 am
Look what happened oin Egypt over new year

it was zoinist bombing.not muslim.coptic were living with muslim side by side from thousands of years.never anything like this happened.some cousin of aseemanand has done this.to divide society.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:19 am
No amount of blame or rationalization is going to change the perception; only ceasing from terrorism will change the image.

perception is result of mediacracy.in canada many times they have taken teenagers to jungle
to teach them shooting.at the end they will catch some muslim boys and blame ,ossama soldiers.media will give publicity.that canada is full of ossama followers ,they are going to jungle and specializing in arms firing.every body has to his as…to make sure that there is bomb hidden there.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:52 am
benoy u are maniac.nothing more.ashnazi jews have no semitic blood .they have european blood.muslims and jews were living like brothers from thousands of years.when the zoinist were descending on middle east ,all the jews of palestine gave a memoremdum to gen balfour .governor of palestine opposing their arrival.ashaknazis have no local connection.but they forcibly entered in palestine put entire region on flame.but their days are numbered.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:55 am
Palestinian issue has to be solved by Palestinians, and nearby neighbours

the only wy to solve palstanian problem is to force european jew to leave the region as middle
east dont belong to them.semitic jews and muslim live together as before.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

@ Ravi, Shan, Ramavtar and the rest. I am stunned. I mentioned the case of Saurabh Kalia, and not one of you had a word to say about it. NOT ONE WORD.

Instead I hear hogwash about Guantanamo bay and Abu Gharaib. Terrible though these examples are, they pale before the torture of Saurabh and of the Jewish couple in Mumbai 2008, that I mentioned before. Let me refresh your memory- ” Saurabh Kalia? He was an Indian soldier captured and killed in Kargil. You say- killings happen in wars- that is tragic- read on- “The postmortem revealed that the Pakistan army had indulged in the most heinous acts; of burning their bodies with cigarettes, piercing ear-drums with hot rods, puncturing eyes before removing them, breaking most of the teeth and bones, chopping off various limbs and private organs of these soldiers ..”

You are flanked by an enemy so vicious, and yet even Saurabh’s fate does not move you. You continue with your pet obsessions- anti hindu, anti brahmin etc etc. If Saurav had been Shearer from USA or UK, they would have closed ranks, put aside any Anglo-Irish rivalry and launched a strike on Pakistan’s nuclear sites and all of its military establishments and finished off this serpent once and for all.

Our leaders like Maulana Yadav, Antulay, Digvijay, Amar Singh etc are not weak and divided, we are. Or, on this occasion, I take a detached view and say, you are.

Did I say we are flanked by a vicious dangerous enemy, I was wrong. A very tiny miniscule trace of that enemy exists within- in slums, muslim ghettoes, some mosques and of late even in middle and upper class households in India -Ishrat Jahan, Dr Abdullah (Glasgow bomber), the Pune IT enterpreuner 2008 (forget his name), one of the founders of Indian mujaheddin ( a doctor, forget his name)

0.01% only, possibly. But be united. Eradicate this menace and then go back to fighting each other again, this nonsensical anti hindu, anti brahminism, Thackerism, Periyarism, Khalistanism, Maoism…

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

@Azhar Hussain, you have asked me to commennt- ” European settlers from have been killing Palestinians for 50 yrs in illegally occupied land…”

Sir, I have no idea if you are Indian or Pakistani. Yes, I am outraged by what I see in Palestine, but I am EQUALLY outraged by apartheid, by hutsi-tutu killings, the current murderous Mexican drug wars etc etc. BUT SIR, THESE ARE NOT INDIAN ISSUES. We do not have the resources to fight those fronts, let us solve our problems first.

If you are Pakistani, then similarly, I will say solve your own existential problems first. Forget this ummah bullshit. And once you have solved that then lets resolve our bilateral problems- India-Pak. Palestine or Chechnya comes way down the line.

Your feedback welcome.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:59 am
brhmnsm is the biggest problem nof india.

[Reply]
D Mishra, UK

@ Azhar, let me put it in our own local language to get the full flavour-

humne India mein theka nahin ley rakha hai duniya ki har muslim problem solve karne ka.

Hope that did not sound rude.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:51 am
mishrajee u are telling this nonsense as it is muslim problem also.newyork is in india and wtc too were not in delhi.anyhow u have no role to play.u sold india to britishers,during aurangzeb era our gdp was 25%in 1947 brhmn british venture reduced this to 1.5percent.

bilateral problems- India-Pak
mishra jee war and voilence is the oxygen of brhmnsm.india is hated by all its neighbours.nehru forced china war on indian by insulting chou en lai.u create problem.because of problems and anarchy u survive.
rwanda and palestine i different.rwanda was mascare .palestine is occupation.rwand timely while palestine is permanent.
indian brhmns are interested only in commission through arms purchasing.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 am
humne India mein theka nahin ley rakha hai duniya ki har muslim problem solve karne
does india carry any weight.
-Ishrat Jah cases..there was any differece between thugs of medieval ages and anti-terrorist squads of indi.they were competing in atrocities.

tell me what will happen to a home minister in london,if he is caught in money extraction bussines using his police in this game and killing people to get awrds and promotion.
ishrat jahan,a 18yr old girl from killed in very filmy way to get awrd along with 3 of his companions.they were armless catch them and try in court.
same was delhi jamia killing of 3 innocents.
supreme court has taken the notice of ishrt jahan case.very soon perpetuator of this crime will be unmasked,

[Reply]
http://- Rajeev

Looking at the comments from islamic fundos like Ravi and ram autar, I feel they deserve carpet bombing by US and Israel.
So much filth..needs to be cleaned up.

[Reply]
ram autar Reply:
January 8th, 2011 at 7:01 am
now aseemanand and indresh are in net.why u pray and expect everything to done by america and isreal.why not u do.indians are now fully aware that brhmnst are the only terrorist india has.

[Reply]
sunny

why don’t they allow your **** about how islam is good and terrorism has nothing to do with islam on the print edition, dude? that way, atleast HT will lose some readership. and while on ht – do all of you have licking congress’ *** on your job description, or is your incentive compensation linked with it?

[Reply]
Raghavendra

Mr Zia Ul Haq

i read your article about rahul gandhi’s views about RSS , i wish to remind you and Mr gandhi how his grandmother late Smt Indira gandhi took support of RSS in the lok sabha elections of 1980?

can any congress man deny that Smt Indiraji met the RSS chief and sought his help to win elections in 1980? you can go through various news paper reports to clarify it.

RSS was patrotic in 1980 to win elections but the same RSS becomes anti national in 2010 for these congress people?

what an irony Mr Zia ul haq

[Reply]
Johnny

Hi!

You wrote – “every time a muslim commits a terror attack my head hangs in shame” – do you just hang your head or retaliate and write extensively agains the muslim terrorism all over India and the world too? Just hanging head means nothing. Right?

[Reply]
shankara b.

RSS will not rest until it destroys India. It is time facts are placed before the Indian Public., even if the Govt. of the day loses 10 elections in a row. RSS has engineered (planned and executed) hundreds of riots 1928-2011… killing millions of unarmed Indian Muslims. The riots., the bombings, all have been planned at Nagpur. The facts… must be brought to the Indian Public live on TV… irrespective of political cost.

Can the congress do it ? No. because Indira Gandhi herself practiced Soft Hindutva… and Sanjay was almost as anti-muslim as Bal Thackerey. Where will all of this lead to ? The Destruction of India and Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma) at the hand of evil RSS and Hindutva.

[Reply]
kanishka

There are many stark differences in ideologies and styles as well, for instance, Modi has zero tolerance for corruption and demonstrated decisive leadership. That means under Modi, development is expanded wider horizontally with same amount of funds allocated(67% money reaches project compared to 33% in case of MMS) and vertically with quicker and faster development.

Additionally, MMS believes in giving a fish a day to poor to keep them poor and dependant on goverment handouts for lazy and unproductive vote bank politics;Modi on the other hand believes in teaching a man how to fish to make him selfsufficient, hardworking and grow to his full potential to contribute in the uplift of his family, society and nation.

[Reply]
kanishka Reply:
April 14th, 2013 at 1:22 am
Another stark difference is not having two+ centers of power for an elected head of the state who has taken the oath of office and one Super PM without any accountability and press conferences/interviews.

[Reply]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/toireporter/author-Mohammad-Azeemullah.cms Mohammad Azeemullah

Then Hail UPA in 2014!

[Reply]
http://www.facebook.com/lightpandey Prakash Pandey

There really, is no differential between policies of the two. And that is primarily because both seem to be puppets of the same corporates that increasingly control this nation. Its big money all over.

[Reply]
Ashok Reply:
April 13th, 2013 at 9:23 pm
There is bog difference between the two while Manmohan is puppet of corrupt Sonia piling money in her Swiss Bank account, Modi has zero tolerance for corruption and that makes the story different.

[Reply]
Anonymous

seriously! modi is mms of the 1990’s

[Reply]
kanishka

Below are two contrasts between Gujarat Model of Modi and Khangrace Model of MMS:

1. In April 2013, Surat in Gujarat was judged India’s best city. The parameters for this included, according to a report in The Times of India, “mobility, water
supply network, cleanliness, public amenities, pollution control, greenery,
safety and easy processes of getting work done at the corporation.”

2. Delhi is declared most unsafe city for women and known as R@pe capital in the world for the last 3 years. The child malnourishment has reached at an alarming high level of 52% according to the CAG report tabled on March 2013. The CM of WB was assulated in day light last week right in front of Planning commission building.

[Reply]
David

Its a misleading news, how can one compare Modi with leader of corrupt, scandlous, Scamster, corrupt, Looter, Traitor govt.

[Reply]
KANISHKA

MODI – NAA MEIN KHATAA HOON NAA KHANE DOONGA

MMS – LOOTO KHAO BACHE TAU SWISS BANK BHARAO

[Reply]
Poor Indian

Notice the new trend of Paid news – Since Rahul baba is shit scared of fighting against Modi -Papu now wants to rule using Shameless MMS as dummy with no accountability as that that way he can protect his Billions of loot and now HT is paid to start a new spin to compare Modi with MMS and suggest both are same.

[Reply]
9Para

This is not a surprising conclusion. Regardless of the political party that is in power, certain factors like the bureaucracy, and the corporations that actually run the country remains essentially unaffected. Since it is in their (and the politicos) best interest to ensure maximum profitable exploitation of resources, questions like ethics, inclusive growth, and societal growth don’t really come into the picture, except as superficial hogwash designed to dupe the voting masses come election time. This fact is one of the core, unavoidable problems with Indian democracy as it now stands. No one is power is interested in changing a repressive and exploitative status quo because it goes against their own beneficial interest. Communalism, vote-bank politics, issues of caste, etc. are all incorporated into political discourse to disguise this essential fact that everyone in power wants their share of the enormous pie that is India and its natural, economic, and man-power resources. The relationship between India’s people and its governing classes needs to be reoriented fundamentally. A system reset, if you will.

[Reply]
GK

That is … if you assume… Manmohan has a model

[Reply]
KANISHKA

@Author, ” Modi had suggested in Kolkata earlier this week that Bihar should take leaf from Gujarat’s development.”

Did you miss the rest of MODI speech where he explained that models differ from one DISTRICT to next and MODIFICATION (not NAMO-fication) would be required for Gujarat Model of develop to meet the local conditions?

Is Bihar from other planet? 33% share of each agriculture, Industry and Service has maximum flexibility to sustain natural calamities such as draughts becasue the state has already developed its own revenue based on indusrty and service sector. Gujarat has its own tax and non-tax revenue around Re 66,000 Crores which are three times larger than Bihar thus Gujarat does not have to go on begging spree every now and then. Priorities can be changed depending on situation as long you have enough funds of your own and share from center. Besides, industrian states contribute huge sums to the central kitty which agriculture base states don’t. The ganga belt (UP, BIHAR AND WB) is and will remain a drag on the growth rate of India unless India adopts “TWO-CHILDREN FAMILY” policy fo reduce the rate of population growth. UP, BIHAR and WB combined are around 400 million and growth cannot match to feed new mouths every year.

[Reply]
Chaddi Utaro Abhiyan

And we would expect our next PM Mr Narendra Modi to not run away from
Interviews when faced with hostile questioning as it happened in the
past. Chaddis supporting him say that the matter is sub-judice and hence
any ’sane’ Chief Minister would refrain from speaking about it. For
these Chaddis, a basic refresher course in English language is being
provided – FREE of cost!!!

And here goes the brilliant interview where Mr. Modi shows his oratory and management skills :
http(colon)//www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=TP1QFcvIg9c .

I hope he is more prepared the next time, once he assumes office and
hopefully gets a visa to the US. If the New York times turns hostile,
please ask him to keep calm and bazinga!!

[Reply]
Pappu_FAIL_ho_Gaya1 Reply:
April 14th, 2013 at 6:33 pm
i THINK YOU ARE A NAUKER paid by the Pappu relief Fund sponsored by Congress loot money. Please go clean diapers of your failed Pappu rather than give these puerile comments being paid at 25 paisa a comment by Congress

[Reply]
krishna reddy

MMS since his school days has only one strategy. Turn in your answer paper blank. Every one fills it the way he wants and feels you are a genius. He is like a blank paper used as a tissue paper by the Madam.

[Reply]

Rahul Gandhi: Punished for plainspeaking

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