Is school the right place to know Islam?



Can we understand and react to global terror without ‘essentialising’ Islam itself i.e. without treating as absolute notions, such as ‘Islam cannot be practised without harming those who don’t’?

Is school the right place to know about Islam? What can school-goers gain from learning religions?

Until 9/11, Islam and Muslims evinced little popular or academic interest. But in the last one decade alone, Islam has become the singularly most disapproved religion. This has affected not just how Muslims are perceived but also how they go about their own lives and how they practise Islam (more on this later).

Learning world religions right at school may no longer be an exotic academic excursion, but a growing requirement, simply because school-goers will learn about Islam anyway. They will do so through what I call ‘alternative multiple memories’, such as the news media that seldom tell the whole story; or hearsay, which by definition, is distorting; or through drawing-room conversations, which draw on more fiction than facts.

So, when children leave schools, whether in Dallas or Delhi, it isn’t very useful to let their opinions to be shaped solely by circulating stereotypes in ‘alternative multiple memories’.

This is happening, I mean, attitudes towards Muslims suffer from significant slants. A Gallup poll on how Americans viewed Islam early this year did not only reveal the “most negatively viewed” religion. It also revealed that most people did have an opinion about Islam, as opposed to those who excused themselves from or refused the survey.

So, 31% said they were not “at all favourable” to Islam, 22% said they were not “too favourable” and 33% said they were “somewhat favourable”, but only 5% said they did not know what they thought of Islam. The summary finding is that more than 43% Americans acknowledge feeling “a little” prejudice toward Muslims — which is more than twice the number of those saying the same thing about Christians (18%), Jews (15%) and Buddhists (14%).

There are pitfalls of school-goers grappling with Islam as adults in the real world without a prior — or a priori — concept of nominal Islam. Floating binaries of the academic world — such as “Islam-West” and “Muslim-non-Muslims” – could be stumbling blocks rather than useful tools in engagement. (For how these terms “obscure critical points of engagement”, see Princeton Readings in Islamist Thought, Ed. Roxanne L. Euben & Muhammad Qasim Zaman 2009).

Students are encountering Islam in the most off-putting of ways, from German chancellor Angela Merkel’s sigh of “failed multiculturalism” to a Saudi-styled curriculum in weekend Muslim schools teaching corporal Shariah punishments in Britain.

Exposing school-goers to a basic understanding of world religions can help them contextualize many developments in the real world which feed into their minds through hectoring headlines.

The choice is between knowing Islam through select individuals or groups, such as the al-Qaeda, or through millions of other Muslims.

For example, what is radicalization? Or who is a radical? Most school-goers would associate Islam/Muslims with these words straightaway, without applying it non-judgementally. Most standard definitions describe RADICALISATION as a process whereby individuals or groups endorse or ultimately participate in violent acts for political gains (Refer to De-radicalisation and Disengagement in Prisons – Lessons from 15 Countries from the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, King’s College London).

The good thing is that realization has already dawned and attempts are being made to help students, including Muslims, make sense of concerns emanating from the Muslim world.

This year, New York’s all-girls Hewwit School has introduced The Breadwinner (Groundwood, 2001) by Deborah Ellis and Andrew Clements’s Extra Credit (Atheneum, 2009), along with a National Geographic history reference, The Islamic World (2005), to K-12 graders (kindergarten to grade 12). The two novels are based on regions encountered in world history. The aim is to “deepen understanding of disparate voices and histories that define our modern world”.

New York’s Morningside Center for Teaching Social Responsibility, which teaches educators and students intelligent engagement, has subjects like “Engaging the Muslim World” for teachers. It also has a current hot topic: “NYC Muslim Community Center: Why There? Why Not?”.

So, there you have it. Let the school-goers learn about Islam in a way that will help engagement, rather than disrupt it. Why not?

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  • shan

    ‘Zia, here we go again, islam is supreme , islam is misunderstood ,islam has answers to all problems.
    Non muslims dont need to know islam , they are only asking for them to be left alone , and the beasts be caged by their coreligionist , so that they do not cause premature needless death of of non muslims. and lastly if MUSLIMS please keep this in mind , the best place to practice islam is in kosher MUSLIM countries , and do not try to bend the rules of the countries where they have swamped because of ONLY ECONOMIC REASONS. and please do not move to non muslim countries permanently other than holiday, beleive me all negative perception of islam will vanish.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This is complete meaning less twadle. There is hardly a point in it.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Shan is right.
    After terrorism, muslims want to us to “understand” islam.

    We all know what is islam after 9/11 and 26/11.

    We don’t need any more “lessons”.

    Islam should be BANNED as a religion and it should be given a status of Nazi ..
    The world is slowly going to make that painful decision..

    Islam is the only violent group, which is able to masquerade as a peaceful religion.
    it is the only group, which has a doctrine of jihad against Christians/jews/Buddhists/Hindus…

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Mughal contribution towards Hindu Genocide.

    http://greathindu.com/2008/02/mughal-contribution-to-hindu-genocide/

    Will Zia acknowledge islam’s evil past and current obsession to kill all Hindus ?

    [Reply]

    Prasoon Choudhary Reply:

    He has in past blog once. He did say that current day Muslims should not be held accountable for the evils of past Islamic rulers.

    Kunal Reply:

    It is highly evident from the rating Zia gets for his articles, that he should be sacked. We are not against reading views of an Indian Muslim, but Zia is not objective in his thoughts. He seems to be just using his job to spread propaganda about what non-Muslims should be doing so that the Muslims can live comfortably amongst them.

    Or at least get rid of the article rating and comments, so your senior editors won’t get to know how unpopular your articles are lol.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Frankly speaking ZIA is misusing his position in HT.

    Sam Reply:

    >He did say that current day Muslims should not be held accountable for the evils of past Islamic rulers.

    Current day muslims still get inspired from the same texts which led past rulers for Hindu genocide.

    Can islam abrogate, slavery, jihad, jizya, dhimmitude from Koran ?
    can they publicly declare that Koran is outdated on those concept and Muslims should not follow them anymore ?

    As long as those evil verses are there in Koran/Islamic scriptures, the current day terrorists are also getting “inspired” to wage a jihad against worl’d peaceful people.

    ram autar Reply:

    sam ,

    Brahminism cannot survive without war and violence.

    That is why “they have called war a divine dispensation” and “perfected the art of war and sex”. The killing of all the “Kshatriyas of the world” by their great god Parashurama is hailed as a divine act and Kerala is named — Parasurama Shristi” — after this god .

    God Krishna, a wonderful sex god, ordering Arjuna to kill his cousins, uncles on the battlefield is brought out as a “divine text”, called the Bhagwad Gita, and Gandhi, the Father of their nation, calling it his life’s breath. What wonderful jokers this country has produced.

    Founding fathers of racism: The world does not know all these jokers because India’s Brahminical media has suppressed the supreme truth that Hindu India is the founding father of racism. The very name of the Brahminical religion, Varnashrama Dharma, means it is a racist creed exposing its racist essence. What does varna (a Sanskrit word) mean? Anything which is white is alone divine. Black, brown and yellow are hated by the Brahmin. That is why this eternal Brahminical war on India — and against its Black Untouchables, OBCs and the Yellow Mongoloid tribals of North-East.

    As founding fathers of racism in the world, vaidik rulers of India have injected racism into every aspect of life — including what we eat, our skin colour, agriculture, science, art, culture, sports, health sciences, religion. No aspect of our life is spared from the Brahminic racist onslaught.

    That is how India has sunk from the Third World to the Fourth

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Zia’s question “is School the right place to learn about Islam” is DOA.

    People form opinion about other people either through their interactions, or through following world events and developments, or through significant contributions eand scientific discoveries and accomplishmenst for the benefit of all. They do not believe “Muslims are great” “Hindus are caring peopel” “Christians are righteous” etc because that is what they had in some text books.

    The only constant about Islam/Muslims in the last 15 years is bad news about terrorism, dictatorship, (the good or bad of) Sharia law, (the good or bad) role of women, how educationally (and in many other ways) backwasrd are Muslims across the world… Any text book, if they depict history right, will basically state the same things.

    So, how is this reality going to be replaced by a better, “people friendly/loving” relity by teaching Islam in schools?

    Is Zia excusing Muslims from “correcting” whatever they have to, or is he of the belief that there is nothing to correct?

    ram autar Reply:

    http://greathindu.com/2008/02/mughal-contribution-to-hindu-genocide/PREPARED BY ZHOOT MANUFACTURING FACTORIES OF SANGH PARIVAR.BRHMNS WERE CLEANING THE SHOES OF MUGHAL AN USED TO OFFER THEIR THEIR WIFE /DAUGHTERS FOR PETTY FAVOURS.

    ram autar Reply:

    sam rss is oldest terrorist party of indian.lie is their staple food and hate is their duty.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    9/11 was jewish work 26/11 was handiwork of their satanic brothers in india.

    [Reply]

    Shafey Reply:

    Quite right Shan. And Muslims should start pushing out all non muslims from their countries. Starting with the Gulf, and they should also impose bans on all products from non muslim countries because one can never be sure if it is ‘kosher.’ And by the bye, since we are talking of seperate spaces, Muslims should have a seperate state in India, where non muslims should not be welcome.

    To ensure that intermingling doesn’t take place between the infidels and the believers Muslims should post a couple of N bombs on the border of the said state and a few hundred thousand soldiers at the border to shoot down strays in the no man’s land.

    But this seems to be a repeat of the Indo-Pak saga. Where the hell have you been for the last half century while each rattled their guns and bombs at the other?

    Idiots like you would never learn from history. Or maybe simply weren’t taught it in school. That would explain why you dont want other being taught.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @shafey, the five cow eater with one cow brain, this has already happened , non muslims are driven out from pakistan , bangladesh , malaysia, egypt and iran.

    [Reply]

    Shafey Reply:

    You mean to say there are no non-muslims in “pakistan , bangladesh , malaysia, egypt and iran” ?

    Going by your knowledge of current affairs – which is weaker than your history – I suspect you would be from the RSS. Only they are capable of such ignorance.

    What do you read? Just the vedas? Add a newpaper to it.

    ram autar Reply:

    shan u are foolish there are millions of hindus living in in all these countries.people left because of rss planned blood bath of 1947.when i was in pakistan,hindus were cursing indian hindus for playing communal politics and endangering the lives of hindus in pakistan.
    most of them are rich and happy.i know many sidhis came ,then return back.

    shan Reply:

    @Shafey, pakistan at 1947 had 15% Hindus, now 2010 it is less than 2% , iran , there are no jews , but before 1950 , there used to be a sizable jewish population , Bangladesh , Hindu population have steadily declined , whereas muslim population have steadily increases in west bengal . I was staggered to discover muslims make 21% of the population. I am a proud inheritor that legacy called Young Bengal , the place that produced nobel laureattes and idea and ideals that SIT AT OPPOSITE POLARITY OF ISLAM,

    farid Reply:

    @ shan,

    Brother-
    -visit BANGLADESH-
    -you will find the position of HINDUS .
    It will be difficult on your part–initially–to identify who is MUSLIM AND who is HINDU.
    Presently around 200 millions of HINDUS are there..
    I AM ALSO A PROUD——————BENGALI
    .WE IN BANGLADES DO HAVE PROBLEMS—
    BUT WE FORGET THAT IN TIME OF ————
    .BY PROPAGATING HATRED NO ONE—IS GAINER.

    farid Reply:

    —–It is 20 million HINDUS–sorry for the typing mistake–

    shan Reply:

    @Farid, Allaharey sworon koren, ghum thakey jagen , here is a cut and paste.for the inhumanity ,
    The HAF report documents the long history of anti-Hindu atrocities[69] in Bangladesh,[70] a topic that many Indians and Indian governments over the years have preferred not to acknowledge. Such atrocities, including targeted attacks[71] against temples, open theft of Hindu property, and rape of young Hindu women and enticements to convert to Islam, have increased sharply in recent years after the Jamat-e-Islami joined the coalition government led by the Bangladesh National Party.[72][73]

    Bangladesh has had a troublesome history of persecution of Hindus as well. A US-based human rights organisation, Refugees International, has claimed that religious minorities, especially Hindus, still face discrimination in Bangladesh.[74] The government of Bangladesh, a nationalist party openly calls for ‘Talibanisation’ of the state.[75][76][77] However, the prospect of actually “Talibanizing” the state is regarded as a remote possibility, since Bangladeshi Islamic society is generally more progressive than the extremist Taliban of Afghanistan. Political scholars conclude that while the Islamization of Bangladesh is real, the country is not on the brink of being Talibanized.[75] In 1971 at the time of the liberation of Bangladesh from East Pakistan, the Hindu population accounted for 15% of the total population. Thirty years on, it is now estimated at just 10.5%.[78] The ‘Vested Property Act’ previously named the ‘Enemy Property Act’ has seen up to 40% of Hindu land snatched away forcibly. Since this government has come into power, of all the rape crimes registered in Bangladesh, 98% have been registered by Hindu women. Hindu temples in Bangladesh have also been vandalised.[79][80] The United States Congressional Caucus on India has condemned these atrocities.[81]

    Bangladeshi feminist Taslima Nasrin’s 1993 novel Lajja deals with the anti-Hindu riots and anti-secular sentiment in Bangladesh in the wake of the destruction of the Babri Masjid in India. The book was banned in Bangladesh, and helped draw international attention to the situation of the Bangladeshi Hindu minority

    farid Reply:

    @shan,
    Dear brother–you are in an angry mood.
    Right reactionary forces are present in every society and they gain by propagating hatred amongst the communities.We in BANGLADESH are fighting against such elements.PERCENTAGE OF HINDUS–MORE THAN 25% OF BANGLADESH POPULATION ARE MUSLIM MIGRANTS FROM NEIGHBORING INDIAN STATES–THEIR INFLUX IS THE CAUSE OF HINDU POPULATION REDUCTION.CAN ANY ONE TELL–IF THERE WAS ANY COMMUNAL RIOT IN BANGLADESH–The incidents you mentioned –are prevalent in all societies including yours.
    ENEMY property act has been repealed–vested rule modified–those who will claim will get their properties back.
    YOU WILL WONDER HOUSE OF LATE BASU [EX. CM,WB]
    is there and no one has occupied it–as per his wish BANGLADESH government will construct a memorial centre [library] in the said property–in his honor.
    After BABRI episode–temples were damaged–in remote areas–and most of those were reconstructed–by government money—–IN BANGLADESH NO ONE WAS ATTACKED//INSULTED FOR BEING HINDU—BUT FOR BEING WEAK–THEY INCLUDE MUSLIMS TOO–IF YOU GO THROUGH THE REPORTS–IMPARTIALLY–YOU WILL AGREE.
    THANKS TO YOU FOR MENTIONING–TASLIMA–I AM NOT INTERESTED-TO MENTION ABOUT-MS.ROY.

    shan Reply:

    @Farid Mia, golpo gatha ek jinish , satya katha ek jinish, satya sorbodai teeta lagey. Please can you tell us where from millions of bengal syhletti speaking people that have swamped ASSAM have come from. Where have all the bangladeshi in calcutta, delhi , bombay come from. To suggest that muslims from india have been emigrating to india is like american tourist are flocking north waziristan for honeymoon. HOW ABOUT BIHARIS(RAZAKARS) IN BANGLADESH, they have been begging pakistan to give them a passage as they LIVE A DOG’S LIFE IN THE SLUMS OF DHAKA , but steadfastly refused by pakistan , so much for ummah.AND HOW ABOUT THESE LINES
    Since this government has come into power, of all the rape crimes registered in Bangladesh, 98% have been registered by Hindu women. Hindu temples in Bangladesh have also been vandalised.[79][80] The United States Congressional Caucus on India has condemned these atrocities.[81]

    farid Reply:

    @ shan,
    SYLHET–was part of ASSAM—part of SYLHET is now part of ASSAM–so,SYLHETI people may be there.
    BIHARIS actively opposed BANGLADESH–the older BIHARIS are still reluctant to accept BANGLADESH nationality.BANGLADESH high court ordered–to give BIHARIS nationality–to include names in the voter list–young people accepting but older ones are still reluctant.
    ALL THE CLEANERS AND TEA GARDEN WORKERS [WHOM YOU CALL DALIT// HARI JAN ] ARE –TAMIL, TELEGU,ORIYA AND BIHARI–HINDU–AND THEIR NUMBER IS AROUND 8 MILLIONS.
    আমি গল্প লিখিনা–ভুল কোথায় দেখিয়ে দিলে উপকৃত হব ।
    THANKS TO YOU BROTHER–SORRY IF IT HURTS———-

    shan Reply:

    @Farid Mia, what you are talking about is KACHAR , south assam , and it is sylhetti BUT HINDUS , in fact one of my aunt’s husband (long dead) family are settled there. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POST 1971 emigration to to UPPER ASSAM , causing resentment among BODOS AND ASSAMESE LEADING TO THE GENOCIDE KNOWN AS NELLIE MASSACRE.

    farid Reply:

    @shan,

    Anti BENGALI movement in ASSAM started long ago–during British period–MOULANA VASHANI a Bengali leader stood for BENGALI–BORDOULI AGAINST—

    [Economic ] migration takes place all the time –at all the places–in every society–
    that”s why I am at texas,USA and in USA there are about 3 million INDIANS —

    There is a tendency–in a middle class HINDU family–out of five one will go to INDIA–those who go-they are the educated and affluent group–causing damage to the BANGLADESHI HINDU SOCIETY IN PARTICULAR AND TO BANGLADESH IN GENERAL.THEY TAKE AWAY THEIR EXPERTISE AND WEALTH.

    BROTHER–in 1971 LIBERATION PERIOD– when I left for INDIA–MY FATHER GAVE THE ADDRESS OF A PERSON–his friend of our village–a HINDU–SETTLED AT CALCUTTA [ KOLKATA ].—–In mid august,1971–I got the opportunity to go to meet
    my father”s friend–with high temperature.–the person embraced me for a long time but to my astonishment HIS WIFE TOOK ME INTO HER ARMS AND I FELT THE WARMTH OF MY MOTHER–WHICH I DID NOT FORGET YET.The family visited BANGLADESH many times and all the time they visited our house.

    REGARDING SUBJECT OF DISCUSSION—SCHOOLS CAN HELP–BUT FAMILY
    AND MEDIA IS–INSTRUMENTAL IN BUILDING A HARMONIOUS SOCIETY FOR WHICH WE SHOULD ACT — WITH DEVOTION.

    ram autar Reply:

    THEY LEFT THEIR PLACE BECAUSE OF RSS LED BLOOD BATH.NO MUSLIM EVER ASKED THEM to go.bengalee brhmns are most communal narrow minded and self centred community in india.
    hegdewar was trained there.during their reign on east bengalees had no middle class.everything was swallowed by them in exchange for imaginary sexy durga loaded with all rtype of deadly weapon.

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    When Obama visited India, he was taken to Humayun’s tomb; and when Sarkozy came here, he visited Saleemuddin Chishti’s Dargah and his wife even prayed for a son there.
    - Both Obama and Sarkozy were playing this game for their respective audiences back home.
    Why? Muslims are the second largest population in their countries and in the world.
    This means they are also second largest consumers in the world, apart from being biggest crude oil suppliers, for starters.
    In India too, Muslims are the second largest population.
    In short, there are socio-economic reasons for there to be peace between the Muslims and the non-Muslims. Whether one likes it or not, Muslims and non-muslims would have to co-exist on earth. Therefore, Muslims and non-Muslims must learn about each other for information and peaceful co-existence on earth.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ziauddin Shafi, you need to rephrase your words muslims need to learn about the reasons why non muslims have left them miles behind in the road to civilization and social progress.

    [Reply]

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    Muslims of Andalusian Iberian empire of the 9th to 16th century AD were the one whose works helped bring about the Renaissance in Europe. Muslims wherever they possibly can, are making efforts to educate themselves, learn and develop industrially. Malaysia, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Sudan – almost all the non oil rich countries of the world with large muslim populations are on the road to development – mostly on the strength of their educational advancement. Even Pakistan could have been at a higher educational level but thanks to the CIA funded Taliban who first defended against the Soviets and later on played a part in the total destruction of Afghanistan, though the credit of destroying Afg goes mostly to the Yankees. Wherever American involvement is lesser in internal affairs, those Muslim countries have made progress and are moderate too, not bulging with AK47 weilding extremists. Iraq was very advanced in the field of education – the Israelis conspired with the Yankees to destroy it. Iran which is right now the most advanced country education-wise, is the next target of the Zionist-Yankee axis. So, Muslims of the world are educating and learning whenever and wherever they were allowed to do so by their enemies – in India, if the RSS/BJP/Congress leaves Muslims of India alone for 2 decades, without killing, looting, burning them, you would be surprised to see the success which Muslims can attain for themselves – and that is exactly what the RSS/BJP/Congress do not want to happen.

    shan Reply:

    @Ziauddin Shafi, there is a thing called looking into the mirror.When CIA was aiding afghans , with STINGER MISSILES , yankees were allah sent gift to drive out the soviets. The fact is soviet wouldn’t have moved in unless zia with his islamic zeal tried to screw the COMMUNIST non god beleiving non islamic najib govt. now the yankees have become villain. as for the industrialisation , the joke used to be bangladesh cannot make a safety pin , why buy Mig fighters from Russia. The WEST has given bangladesh 20 BILLION (yes you have read it correct) dollars over the years. YES WEST NOT THE UMMAH. As for other muslim countries they are all low cost assembly for global corporation . Like malaysia’s oil goes straight to JAPAN , in return japanese companies have assembling units in Japan.UNLESS A COUNTRY IS BOTH SECULAR AND LIBERAL IT WILL NOT TAKE OFF.

    ram autar Reply:

    they adopted english 2 decades after hindus.mulims are far ahead of hindus in every field.providing employment to 20million hindus which is feeding india.u hindus are nothing.
    india cannot manufacture blade even.
    bam
    bangladesh is rich because of ummah.remitting 12 billion dolars.cash was also huge.in everyfield they are ahead of west bengal.when under hindu exploitation they dont have even middle class.

  • Kunal

    The need is to educate the jihadists about other religions, not to educate the westerners about Islam. Although that’s not a bad idea. But to buy that idea, it’s just not has to be taught. The good “Muslims” have to stand up and fight for their religion.

    Am I seeing that happening ? Is Saudi Arabia going to take a stand and say …we are going to show the world that Islam can co-exist with other religions and turn Saudi Arabia into a secular state ?

    When the good Muslims take a stand and convince us they want to get rid of the jihadists within them, you come and tell us what we or the westerners should be doing.

    Till then SHFU !!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Kunal

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ (or words to that effect)

    I think it is time for moderate Muslims to wrench back their religion from the Wahabi’s.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Kunal, it is time beneath the stairs , blindfolded pakistani ravi came out of the closet and declare himself a pakistani.Secularism and Islam is an oxymoron. you can have secular society where people practice religion with islamic flavour.you cannot have islamic country and secular country at the same time .India has declared itself a secular country , not a hindu country, despite advani’s claim.Just let people in islamic countries first gain the right to speak their mind , just think of poor rushdie and taslima nasreen .secularism is a concept from different planet in these places.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Hindu Fundo SHAN

    Islam and Secularism may be an oxymoron.

    But you are a congenital moron.

    Hinduism and Secularism is also an oxymoron. BJP does not want a Secular India, it wants a Hindu India.

    Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. What is your trouble with that. Is it not their right to do what they want to.

    Once again the semi trained butcher from Medway, fails to make any sensible point.

    So lets see you declare yourself as a Crypto Fascist, your real colour.

    Sam Reply:

    What will happen to a Hindu school student , in Pakistan if he says Islam is false and the prophet is a false person ?

    Will the school students have a right to speak up and not be punished, or they should be just listening Mullah’s propaganda about islam ?

    or zia just wants indoctrination about islam, so that young minds are poisoned with “unquestionable facts straight from arab moon god” ?

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi

    You are misleding and twisting ..BJP never said they want a Hindu India

    ram autar Reply:

    fk the secularism of india.secular india had 600 plus communal riots saudi arabia.nil.hindu cannot be secular.he is born fraud.
    eating entertainment sex and cheating is part of their of their life.lie hatred war and voilence is their staple food.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Zia

    The role of school is to educate braodly and not narrowly, in that context the regular “Religious Studies” curriculum in UK usually covers the following:

    1. Philosophical and ethical issues; like crime and punishment, use of embryos, war and peace, the right to end ones life (Dignitas style).

    2. Principal teachings of major world faiths; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism through to smaller groups such as Jains and Zoroastrians

    3. Perspectives of agnostics and atheists.

    Time and again we hear that Saudi sponsored Islamic Schools in UK, use unacceptable language when describing non-Isalmic people. This along with all terrorist activities goes a long way to, justifiably, creating an all too bad image of Islam.

    For Islam to start forming a positive image among school children, it has to do the following:

    1. Not mix international politics with religion.

    2. Expose American Imperialism in a civilised manner and not retailate in a violent manner.

    3. I know that Muslim Civilains are dying in large numbers as a result of war on terrorism, but creating mayhem in the streets of London or New York, will not help improve the image of Islam.

    4. Provide sensible people who appear on the media to provide Islamic perspective.

    5. Etc.

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    Let them get educated first. Then they can decide what/how/when!

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Zia, rather than expecting the rest of the world to educate itself to Islam , HOW ABOUT ISLAM EDUCATING ITSELF ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD. This will expose the bunkum of quoran , that earth is not flat , conception doesn’t take place when sperm and menstrualblood meet ,it is not right to beat your wife gently if she refuses sex, and there is a thing called EVOLUTION which shows how we are related to primates.Also have you asked yourself why there is negative perception about islam. That all islamic countries are authoritarian ,misogynist , backward anti democracy , hypocrites, miniscule contribution to science , doesn’t produce any goods which you can buy in the shops , emigrating to west all the time yet attacking west for all that it stands for. Now here is a excerpt from the book “THE ARABS” by Eugene Rogan, page 4-5.
    “Samir kassir was ajournalist and author writing in lebanese daily Al-Nahar.he died in his booby trapped alfa romeo as he drove to work on morning of June 2,2005 .kassir was one of the leading voices of antisyrian March14 movement.
    Kassir saw lebanon’s problem as a microcosm of the ills of the arab world as a whole .Kassir had published a remarkable essay exploring what he termed ARAB MALAISE of the twenty first century.it reflected the disenchantment of arab citizens with their corrupt and authoritarian governments.”IT IS NOT PLEASANT BEING ARAB THESE DAYS”, he observed .Feelings of PERSECUTION for some , self hatred for others , a deep disquiet pervades the arab world.
    Yet the arab world hasn’t always suffered such a malaise he continued.he contrasted 21st century malaise with two historic periods in which the Arabs had attained or aspired to attain greatness.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan mumbai kee koi aisee ladkee nahin hai jisne arabi l ka mazza na liya ho.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    haramautar, arabi ne sirf mumbai me mazza nahi loota , hyderabad ki tera sall (ussey chota umar nahi kar saktey , rasul ka mana hai) umar balio sey bhi mader xxxx mazaa loot ne key liye atay hein . Kahatein hein ki dooniyan ki sari raandi kothi arabo se vara hai.Inkey kartoobon sarey morocco, algeria, tunisia mey veree hai. In buccho ko liye muulah ne saudi mey ek naya kanoon bhi banaya hai, **** sey yeh shahabzado sarey north africa mey nadan ladkio ko randipaan mey dhakel sakey , lakeen ALLAH KI DUYA MILTEY JAYEN.

    ram autar Reply:

    bete shan,truth still remain same.there 5 lacs prostitutes in sona ghachi only.

  • T. Ravi

    Mr. Haq,

    I wonder if you have actually seen school curriculums lately. Yes, students are not religions in school and there is a very well thought of reason behind that. Would muslims be willing that their kids be taught christianity and hinduism? I would expect a huge outcry over it.

    Religion goes with families and it is parents responsibility to teach their wards about how they perceive and what they practice. Secular states (governments) must not and principally can not force religious studies upon students.

    Also, it is not that students are not aware of religions. It is taught under and in context of history. People know that Islam was successful in establishing peace among warring factions in middle east. They also know it led to mayhem at the borders. Islam didn’t always propagate through negotiations and there were crusades. Europe didn’t wish to convert and fought for centuries. Even in India, Aurangzeb wasn’t talking of peace while slaughtering hindu kingdoms.

    If the world looks negatively at Islam today, it isn’t for nothing. You may liken it to action-reaction theory, but in spite of that the reactions have been excessive. If kids of muslim parents do not learn about what is correct and should be followed and what is contextual and not relevant in today’s world, then it doesn’t become the responsibility of state to teach it.

    Make a stand for your convictions and be a model to the kids, rather than look to others for that.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    T. Ravi.

    I appreciate the point you are making, so what I am saying here is by way of adding to the sentiments you express rather than to challenge them.

    1. I am sure that Secular States, can and do include Religious Education in their broad based curriculum. What they do not do is focus exclusively on a single religion. Comparative religion from a moral and ethics POV is always welcome in any curriculm and this can not be covered in History lessons.

    2. Why is it that any Secular State will feel un-comfortable in including the teaching – for example – of Physics or Sociology but not Comparative Relgious Studies.

    [Reply]

    T. Ravi Reply:

    Ravi,

    What is included in a broad based curriculum of introduction to religions is very different from religious studies per se. Religions, because of the way they evolve with societies, have varying level of complexities. Education on morals and ethics is a small part and already part of curriculum. Religions, however, are not just about morals and ethics. Major religions have major variants e.g. hinduism, christianity, etc. A religious study requires a study of a particular form of these, else you will see parents crying foul or end up with confused students. Such education is usually imparted through respective church, gurukul, madarsa, etc. There are students who take up religious study and spent a lot of time getting familiar with the holy texts of particular religion. So, simply stating that religious studies should be part of curriculum is an easy way out for Haq. The commonalities such as morals, ethics, etc are already part of moral sciences.

    As for depth of religion from historical PoV, it is not little. The part that is covered by moral studies by way of stories, etc is stated as related to or originated from particular religions in a matter of fact way by history. So, history relates the stories that are expected to impart wisdom and ethics in moral sciences to the religions. Another reason for greater significance of a historical context is that that the religions have had a major influence of the period in which they came into being upon themselves. Hinduism is a diverse set, christianity focused on moral values and ethics in later versions, and Islam focused more on discipline and equality among man.

    IMHO, teaching of religion is best left to parents. Intervention of state is anyway not welcome by religious scholars mostly, as the focus differs. As for the physics vs. religious studies, sciences are comparatively unpolitical, they are established and currently accepted facts. No matter whether you are christian, hindu or muslim, scientific theories are not offending (except for some like evolution) and acceptable to all. Their applications to modern world also make them unavoidable. So, though it is not a problem to introduce science education, religious studies can potentially be.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    World peace is a good idea. So also teaching of all religions in schools. So also the idea of clean watrer, environment…..

    The current issue, problem, mis(?)understanding etc is all about Islam and Muslim behaviour. and M uslims have to fix it before giving a sermon on what students all across the world should study. Chinese children are not wearing suicide bomb vests. Neither US children (they may have guns and shoot at will!). Budhist, Hindu, Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecosta etc children are not wearing suicide vests if we view the vest wearers from a religious perspective.

    So, while it is nice to educate all about world religions, the pressing need of the day is not that education, but for Muslims to ensure their children dont bomb innocents.

  • abhay bhagat

    who says BJP wants a hindu india? if so,what is wrong with hindu india?almost all of the latin american nations and italy are catholic nations but they do not pesecute people of other religions in their country.it is islam alone that does not allow freedom of religion.this is the only religion which gives death sentence for apostacy.why? india has mostly been either hidu majority nation or a budhist majority nation but the rulers were very sympathetic to other religions.emeror ashoka converted to budhism but never persecuted a hindu.emeror harshbaedhan,a hindu held the biggest convention on budhism in the 7 th century and finance several budhist temples in china.the very famous chinese budhist traveller HUENSANG took part in this convention.please do not equate islam with tolerant religions of the world.if islam was tolerant then it honoured killers of non islamic people with the title of “GHAZI”? why did it impose “ZIZYA” tax on nonmulims.i can go on.

    [Reply]

    hami Reply:

    You man. U dont understand nothing about Islam, the why u are barking here loudly. In hinduism, is there any system to pay zakat to the poor people. During Mughal rule, ZIZYA was ordered to non-muslims to help poor people. Read the holy book, Quran. Then u can see the beautiful of Islam. Barking here never will help u man. I challenge u that if u people try to defame Islam, it will make more stronger muslims around the world. Trying to defame Islam is not new.

    [Reply]

    Prasoon Choudhary Reply:

    Dont twist the facts, the fact is Islamic rulers were pathetic people who were looking at all options to impose their supremacy over Hindu population. Zizya was one of them. If you want to do the charity then do from your own money you can not impose your view on others. This is what Muslims wants to do all the time and then demand respect by force.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    moron zajiya was not imposed on brhmns and rajput.this was wartime measure when mountain rat from and scavngers of north became powerfull.

    [Reply]

  • Indian_Abroad

    There is no right place. It is not worth knowing. It is very intolerent and violent.

    I can say this becasue I am not a politician nor a pseudo-secularist. I don’t need to be hypocrate or politically correct.

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    This is what is called soft Jihad, trying to estanilsh Islam’s supremecy by means other than “terrorism” and using the therat of terrorism to corce world to its ways

    It is like mafia’s use of strongmen to break legs and then some tax collector going about collecting tax (without breaking legs)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I have been saying this all along. The Soft Jehadis are the the real cause behind Islamic terror. I’d pick illiterate muslims over literate anyday because illiterate muslims is far more tolerant than literate one.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajeev, wellcome back, i have been at my wits end to derobe this soft jehadi RAVI, now he has a soul mate in Ashish

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Rajeev Reply

    ghanshyam kahan the.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    I know atleast half-dozen liberal hindus on net who whole heartedly support Islam. For them liberalism is defending Islam no matter what. They think that no one can see thru their liberalism.
    They use all kinds of abuse for hindu god but never once you will hear them condemning Mohammad..Why????

    I don’t want to waste time on these kind of people. The US and its allies are going after the foot soldiers totally ignoring Soft jehadis like Naik, Zia, Ravi, Bobby, Autar etc. These are the guys who instigate poor muslims to engage in terror..These are the guys who invent logic to defend terrorist act. The need of the hour is to snoop on these rats and put them behind bar.

    Zia knows in his heart that he was denied US Visa because of his ideology (that is refelected on this blog)..but can he change? NEVER..

    Rajeev Reply:

    Autar,
    Apki Ammijaan ki khidmat kar raha tha..Gilani style.

    ram autar Reply:

    except brhmncl terror there is no other terror in india.

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    this is a grand Jihad Andrew McCatrhy is talking about, where the Islamists use violence and threat of ciolence to corce people and societies to bend to its ways. Aka lear about Islam to understand what causes muslims to become lunactics and blow themsevles and “infidels”, better become a muslim to avoid being a target
    FO Mr Zia

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Andrew McCatrhy is talking about, where the Islamists

    where

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Zia is at it again…If only others know about Islam..

    It is not going to happen. And it need not.

    Islamic terrorism, Islamic treatment of women, ISlamic notion of KAuffers etc = Hate for Muslims,misunderstnding (as Zia calls it), fear of Muslims.

    Either Muslims can reform themselves or continue this way. Others will ignore them, kill them (US army), and move along..

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy,jesus and prophet mohammed said all the people are children of god .but in bhagwat geeta
    krishna says four fols caste has been created by me according to the differenciation 0f karma,

    IN HINDUISM GOD HIMSELF AGREE HE IS CREATOR OF CASTE SYSTEM.WHAT A KIND HEARTED GOD HE IS WHEN THIS RELIGION IS ITSELF DESCRIMINATING HUMANS,HOW U CAN SAY THAT HINDU INDIA WILL BE /CAN BE SECULAR.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Haram Autar, you have score your own goal . To satisfy your criteria of secularism , one need to show that religious hindu texts have no sway with constitution of india, Just think about Jagjivan Ram, R Narayanan, the last chief justice of India?balakrishnan, and ofcourse BEHANJI.
    mY DIAGNOSIS IS you need a good s h a g , all your bullshitting will stop and you will see things with an open mind not a hate filled mind. In order words you will be contended within , and as you know there is no better contentment.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Just think about Jagjivan Ram, R Narayanan, the last chief justice of India?balakrishnan, and ofcourse

    THEY WERE SLAVES AND PUPPETS.FOR NAME SAKE ONLY.

  • shan

    @binoy , let zia and his coreligionist ravi reflect on islam as it stands in pakistan
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wcsb4/Womans_Hour_Weekend_Womans_Hour/

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ravi will have his usual argument that Pakistan is not secular, so they need not worry or do not have to do anything…It is all on India and US (and Europe and UK)….

    Figure it out…

    btw this boy (19 years old) was arrested for planning to blow up a part of Portland, oregon. He told FBI his aim was to kill as many people. And he was not from Iraq. His parents were refugees from Somalia. The boy gets taken care of, his dad gets a job with Intel.. They have their mosque..No problem in praying…Then one day he wants to kill as many people as he can… How can a 19 year be so violent.. He quoted pages and verses from the Book, and why it is his duty to kill kauffers.. He said his madrasa education prepared him to accept PUBH glory..”.

    And Zia wants to teach others about Islamm One cannot even laugh at this!

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Binoy,
    Zia Haq is nothing if not consistent- for the last year or more, it has been the same kirtan- “Islam is fine.. non-Muslims need to understand it”
    Since Muslims have no problems understanding non-Muslims, presumably; the curriculum in the proposed religious education will be “The Book” in order that non-Muslims are “on the same page”.
    The beauty is, in case it hasn’t struck you- the secular Bobby just loves religious education; tickled to bits- he is. Can’t have enough religion- suddenly, eh, Bobby?
    Or, is it that anything parents teach at home is necessarily not a patch on what the “State” can do? The state withers not, it grows stronger. Quite.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    “The beauty is, in case it hasn’t struck you- the secular Bobby just loves religious education; tickled to bits- he is. Can’t have enough religion- suddenly, eh, Bobby?
    Or, is it that anything parents teach at home is necessarily not a patch on what the “State” can do? The state withers not, it grows stronger. Quite.”

    Well you clearly did not get my point- or rather Dawkins point, which i think is a good one. Teaching about religions is not “religious education”. I said it could be part of a “sociology course”, simply telling about major world religions, their evolution, starting from nature worship to monotheism, their beliefs etc…

    In fact its very useful, because the child learns that there is nothing special in the religion that is taught by his parents- and that he/she believes what they believe only because of the geographical location of their birth.

    I think its a very useful lesson. In fact I am not saying anything new. People like Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Hitchens have said the very same thing.

    Teaching about major world religions IS very much secular- because its not teaching the Quran or Gita, or that teaching that GOD exists and Muhammed is his prophet, but rather the history and evolution of religions and the different types of religions- and a few of their core “beliefs”. Its NOT about claiming the “divinity of man”, or the “prophet hood of Muhammed”.

    What Dawkins and other sensible people are against is teaching it as part of science, or as established truth. But teaching it as part of the evolution of culture or aspects of world culture, is fine and indeed arguably useful in breaking its hold on the beleivers.

    Bobby Reply:

    In fact one of the things which could be taught as part of this “sociology course” is the reason why religion exists in most cultures. An excellent book in this regard would be the following:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell:_Religion_as_a_Natural_Phenomenon

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, I fully endorse your view , IT IS LIKE SEX EDUCATION, cant get away from it , religious fanaticism and the pimps of religion trying to groom the impressionable minds , so better be prepared , with the facts laid bare , so that the children do not fall into the trap.

    ram autar Reply:

    being neo converts still they carry some hindu evil.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    zeenews starts with with gang rape and women burning.india is only place where no.\ of women are less.

    [Reply]

  • Jay

    The fundemental problem with Islam is that it does not tolerate non-believers. The Koran explicitly asks for non-believers to be victimized. Any discussion on Islam is fruitless unless there is a willingness to reform the prevailing beliefs and critically evaluate the Koran. Another big problem is that the translations of Koran itself are fudged by the Muslims so that its more radical teachings don’t become know to the lay person.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    Totally agree. I do not know how many version of the Koran are out there. Or how many interpretations of the Koran are out there.

    There is a need for a predominantly Muslim country to stand up and adopt secularism. My bet is on Indonesia.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Kunal
    I do not know how many version of the Koran are out there. Or how many interpretations of the Koran are out there.
    Do you care? :-) Seriously??
    BTW, Indonesia becoming secular? Mate, one of two things will need to happen before that.
    1. Both of us will be long dead and gone before that.
    2. (And this is the faster option)- Just change the definition of secularism. :P
    Don’t be fooled by Bali- Indonesia is much much more than Bali and its temples and quaint dances.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    islam is secular hindu cult is brutal and communal by its very nature.

  • S Singh

    Audacity of the clueless!

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Looks like Zia lives in an alternate universe, alternate reaility.. Just like Pakistanis .. “India, US, Israel behind all our problems – nothing wrong with us..We are Muslisms”.

    “Nothing wrong with us…If only others understand us better.”

    He seems liek a PAaistani!

    [Reply]

  • Prasoon Choudhary

    I can feel what Zia is going though in his mind. He is disturbed by the constant bad news about Islam and Muslims that appears in the news all day in western media. But It will be hard to convince any one that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is no Buddhism. It is bounded by a book which was written in 6th century. And Muslims are very rigid about the book. It must have been a great work in 6th centuries to control and bring order to always fighting barbarian Arab tribes. But 20th century is no barbarian society. It is a society driven by science and technology. People in progressive society want rational logic for every thing that you want them to believe.
    Consider what will happen if a student asks the teacher in class on Islam what is the punishment for people leaving Islam in Quran. What happens to gay people as per Islamic law. What is the punishment for adultly is Islam. What is the rights of non Muslims in Islamic society as per Islamic law. Are they equal. If yes why no Muslim country is a secular country.
    You will argue that Islam treats non Muslims fairly but that you definition of fairness does not meet requirement of equality and secularism practiced in modern society. See what happened to Christian women in Pakistan.
    You can also argue that all religion have errors even Bible is full of violence. Hindu books preaches cast based society. Yes that is true but how many Christan in Europe believe in Adam and Eve. How many believe in ten commandments. Point is people in all religion have embraced modern values except Muslims.
    For reform to happen in Islamic society some body will have to say that certain verses in quran is no longer relevant in modern times. Its time to move on. Somebody will have to brake the bolt to Islam called quran. People will have to move on and think logically. World was not created by Allah . Answer is we don’t know. There is no 72 virgins waiting in haven for anybody. Its all stories good for 6th century Arabs so that they do not take away womens forcefully from another tribes. Muhammad was great guy who cleverly fooled illiterate barbarian Arabs but same things can not work in 20th century. Muslim have to understand that only thing constant is change. As the society moves to a better idea like civil rights secularism and democracy they too will have to change with time. For a modern people religion can not be basis of every thing in life.
    Well Zia I know you will escape answering all questions by telling us that you are not responsible for what goes on in Islamic countries around the world. You believe in secularism etc etc. If so why do you worry what people say around the world tell that that you are Indian and that is not our religion. You follow Indian version Islam where Quran is a inspiration but not final word.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Prasoon Choudhury, just to remind you that tasleema nasreen had said that islam needs to be rewritten. we all know what happened to that poor mare.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    tasleema nasreen refused to convert.she is making fool of chutias like u.she is staunch muslim but resisting some hindu qualities which still persists among muslim.she is staying 5-star hotel at the cost of idiots.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    “Learning world religions right at school may no longer be an exotic academic excursion, but a growing requirement”

    Its a good suggestion. Something similar was discussed by Richard Dawkins. As Dawkins says, it may be a good idea to get children introduced to all the world religions as part of some “sociology course”.

    This has the double advantage of both reducing misconceptions about other religions, as well as the added advantage that the kids get to hear other religions which also claim to be the “path to god”, as their own parents probably are telling them in their homes, about their respective religions.

    This will help in making them understand that the religion that their parents teach them is just one among many ideas about GOD.

    Then when they listen to the what is being taught in their science classes, hopefully they will understand that all religions are a load of cra p.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @bobby, Richard Dawkins , whom I have been following aggresively on TV, also fighting a losing battle to force SOME religious schools to teach that earth was not created in seven days and it is not five thousand years old . and most importantly GOD DID NOT CREATE MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE , MEN HAVE EVOLVED OUT OF PRIMATES , MONKEYS CHIMPANZEES , THEY ARE OUR GENETIC COUSINS 99.9% genetic similarity.The only religion that should be taught in SECULAR civilized world is the GENESIS OF RELIGION, AND ITS CONTEXT, ANY THING ELSE IS MUMBO JUMBO(to borrow your words)

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    MONKEYS CHIMPANZEES

    are u talking of yr future bhagwans.hinduism is rascism and aparteism can never be secular.pyramid cannot be horizental.

    [Reply]

  • RAM

    For some reason my comments weren’t published before.
    Now, probably students should know about world religions including Islam.
    But Shaira law comes from Islam right? How many would want to know it and want it for their country?

    [Reply]

  • S S Bali

    The problem with Islamic Religion is that they follow 13th century rules in 20th century and have blocked all routes to self criticism and self correction.
    If Islamic intellectuals can propagate the idea of listening to the positive criticism and suggestions to the Islamic principals they will be doing a great favor to their own religion.
    Islamic people have to accept the modern times or they will fade out naturally.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Islam should not exist in future..
    If you accept islam should exist, you are salying slavery, Jizya, one man = 2 woman in court, triple talak, blasphemy, apostasty, religious apartheid, jihad, conding slavery, dhimmitude…

    should also exist..

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    The only place to learn religion- if at all- is at your home. Thanks T Ravi for your perspective.

    At school, teach morals, essentials like do not steal, do not lie, do not covet thy neighbour’s wife (at least till much older :-) )…- bolstered by mythology, to make it interesting and the lessons sink in.
    Anything more- learn it- only at home- at your expense- on your time. Don’t use my tax-payer’s money to burden my kids with more **** than they have to deal with at school.

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    I would recommend a tsimple approach:

    1) Shut down all madrasas worldwide for ten years. Let the kids learn language, mathematics etc in that additional time.

    Measure the efefctiveness – how many more Muslim children get into top colleges and other vocational fields, how much terrorism has gone down, how they are accepted etc….

    This does not cost anything more, has the potential of making solid citizens rather than crazies looking for 72 virgins in the afterlife

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    dedicated to the donkeys of this blog

    Blood-boiling history of Hindu India : Anti-Pakistan war-mongering has no takers
    As this is written Brahminism and Islam, the centuries- old enemies (see DSA ref. p.5 bottom), are again on the collision course. However, a bloody nuclear war looming over the sub-continent has gone to background as India found itself friendless in the world.
    In this war frenzy, the Pakistani Muslims were united but India’s Hinduists looked weak and divided. Even the recent Islamic terrorist attack on Bombay has gone to background.
    This is because the overwhelming productive labour (85%) of “Hindu India” is not only not Hindu but victim of Hinduism. Dr. Ambedkar had said all this. The Indian Govt. also knows it. That is why it is not ready to be swayed by the micro-minority war-mongers. The Manmohan Singh Govt. is hesitating though the war-mongering Brahminists are craving for “hate, revenge, blood and bomb”.
    Hindu logic: Not only the victims of Hinduism are producers of wealth but they are also advocates of peace. All producers need peace. It is only the consumers that crave for war. The Bahujans are so pre-occupied with their day-to-day drudgery, busy earning their daily bread that they are totally oblivious of the Hindu heroes’ cry for war, blood and bomb.
    This has been the unfortunate topsy-turvey situation in India where the producers have no voice at all. Their job is to only stand and wait. And then to do and die. This is the Hindu logic, said Dr. Ambedkar.
    What is happening today is not new to students of history. Gujarati Bania M.K. Gandhi, blackmailing Babasaheb on “separate electorate” for Dalits by resorting to his fake fast-unto-death, had given a clear warning that the Untouchables could remain in India only as slaves of the ruling Hindus and at their mercy. This is continuing even to this day.
    When the British were leaving India, the very same Brahminical rulers managed to partition the country at the cost of enormous bloodbath. And the creation of Islamic Pakistan gave a wonderful opportunity for the rulers to dub the majority Muslims who decided to remain in India as traitors and Pakistani agents.
    Thirst for blood: How about 15 to 20% of the Indian Muslim population is reduced to grinding poverty, pushed to urban slums, daily facing war and violence was graphically depicted in the Sachar Committee report by an upper caste (Hindu). (DV Jan.16, 2007 p.9).
    In 1971, the very same Brahminical rulers managed to get Pakistan divided by creating Bangladesh with the help of Mujibur Rahman.
    The thirst of this micro-minority Brahminical Social Order for blood is limitless. The killing of over 3,000 Sikhs in cold blood in “Blue Star” (1984), the anti-Mandal war and violence (1991), the demolition of Babri Masjid (1992), the “Gujarat Genocide” killing over 2,500 Muslims. It is an endless story of killing and blood-letting.
    When will their thirst for blood end?
    There is no war hysteria in the vast countryside and even in the urban working class areas. In other words, the Bahujan Samaj — comprising the SC/ST/BCs and the Muslim/Christian/Sikhs (85%) — are busy doing their daily work and do not contribute to the current beating of war drums and the call for “blood-for-blood” revenge.
    Tragedy of India: This hysteria exhibited through their “national” toilet papers and their television is confined to the micro-minority manuwadi upper castes who are not even 15% of our population. There are ever so many saner elements among the upper castes who do not share the call for hate, revenge, blood, bomb.
    But the problem of Hindu India is though the govt. is elected by the Bahujans, the minority Brahminical forces control it. As they have the monopoly media, live in big cities and control the country’s entire property and posts, their voice is alone heard.
    And the tragedy of India is this unrepresentative, anti-social minority fascist voice is called the “public opinion”. We are over 85%, but none cares for our voice.
    Since the last over 60 years every govt. that came right from the Kashmiri Brahmin Nehru up to the Khatri Sikh Manmohan Singh (who is not even an elected leader), came to rule by the votes of the Bahujans and after getting elected it started serving the ruling class. The elected leaders also join the ruling class and concentrate only on implementing its agenda. The only agenda is to keep them poor, illiterate, diseased, toiling masses in perpetual misery.
    Once you are poor, you automatically remain uneducated and then inject in them all the Brahminical poison so that they permanently remain slaves of the Brahminical rulers.
    This cycle of exploitation is continuing with the full blessings of the ruling Brahminical religion, their millions of holy men, their super rich temples, and their “sacred scriptures”.
    Dr. Ambedkar died a sad man: Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar, the Father of India, had said all these hundreds of times and died a sad man because the ruling Brahminical order used the monster Mahatma to see that every warning given by Babasaheb is maligned, rejected and dug deep in the sands of history.
    This is the tragic history of “independent India” which this very Mahatma handed over to the Hindu hounds and reduced us into permanent slavery. And converted India into a failed state.
    If there is a war today it is the innocent, hard-working producers of wealth who will suffer and die. That is why our people are always peace-mongers. Only the Dalal Street Dagabhajis want war.
    Religious hatred: The perpetrators of war frenzy are hiding the fact that they are motivated by religious hatred. The Brahminical toilet papers are experts in suppressing the truth. But even a child can make out that the Hindu hate-mongers are itching for war — which nobody in India wants except this ruling class. In the US, the Neocon hate-mongers (read zionist Jews) concocted the 9/11, managed to raise anti-Muslim hatred and forced President Bush to launch the “clash of civilisations”, meaning a war on Islam. But what ultimately happened was the war consumed its very perpetrator. The booting of Bush at a Baghdad press conference symbolised how much Bush is hated not only in the Muslim world but all over the world and even inside America.
    The religious hatred generated by the tiny Brahminical rulers of India resulted in the partition of India and hundreds of anti-Muslim riots — big and small. Yet the Brahminical thirst for blood is not quenched. They want more war, more violence, more blood, despite having not a single friendly neighbour but believing in the goodwill of one single country, America, which itself is hesitating to support the Hindu hysteria.
    Pakistan wins diplomatic battle: That means “Hindu India” has found itself lonely and isolated. A Brahminical daily DNA (Dec.27, 2008) even frankly admitted in its lead story saying “Pakistan wins”. Because China, Saudi Arabia and even America which India approached asked India to stop sabre-rattling. The Bengali Brahmin Foreign Minister was spitting too much fire and whipping up a war hysteria. India has not a single friend in the world except America but even that became unhelpful.
    But on the other Pakistan, a small and weak country, won the first round. Going by the reports in the Brahminical media itself the entire Pakistani political, religious, military leadership, plus the media, stood as one man to fight “Hindu India”. But inside India the Bengali Brahmin Foreign Minister and the Khatri Sikh PM spoke in different voices. The Bahujans who never hate Muslims refused to support their centuries-old Brahminical enemy.
    India as a failed state: An offshoot of the current crisis is Gen. Kiyani, the Pakistan army chief, has emerged as the strongman much to the disappointment of the Indian rulers who fondly hoped the corrupt President Zardari would be favourable to India. Zardari has now gone to background in the current churning. Even Nawaz Shariff who earlier differed on some issues has fallen in line. This is another blow on the Brahminical face.
    In contrast the opinion in India’s ruling class itself is divided. Only the irresponsible Brahminical media is itching for war.
    We have no hope in the Brahminical hate-mongers ever giving up their hate and their unending thirst for blood and more blood. Any student who has studied the tragic history of India will have to come to this conclusion.
    Though India is called a democracy where the majority is supposed to rule, the Bahujan majority of toiling Indians have no voice because they are made slaves. India has already become a failed state, and as our “India Shining” regular column has revealed we as a country are being pushed backward and more backward.
    The Brahminical ruling class not only lives in luxury but, as the latest Bombay terrorist attack has revealed, is ever eager to turn any incident to its advantage to further bludgeon the already bleeding Bahujans.
    Why India has no revolution: Foreign observers are wondering why the toiling millions, unable to bear the pain of exploitation, are not revolting. Yes. This is a good question which we have answered many times.
    Revolution will come only when the oppressed people become conscious of their exploitation and get angry. Here in India the people no doubt are in great pain. But they are not getting angry because they don’t know who is causing this pain. The Hindu rulers have so effectively mesmerised the suffering masses and convinced them that their suffering is because of their own destiny. This Hindu poison injected deep into their veins has convinced them that their suffering is their own making. They are made so unthinking that they can’t identify the enemy-oppressor even when he is standing right in front of him and siphoning off his blood — even as he falls dead in this painless (Hindu) operation. Dr. Ambedkar has said all these.
    Letters of blood: Except Dalit Voice, we have not even a single media to bring this to the notice of the victims of this painless operation.
    This is the tragic, blood-curdling history of Hindu India. This history has been repeating — endlessly centuries after century.
    If any good-hearted, far-sighted, impartial, noble historian were to come in future, she or he can write the sordid, atrophied, violent, criminal past of India only in letters of blood. (Dec.Jan.1, 2009)

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shoeb mian where there is no america there is no terrorism.where there is no brhmn there is no bomb explosion.i am talking of india.

    [Reply]

  • rehan

    Salam to all..Its seems ISLAM ,the only religion of the World…And Its True..85 percent of worlds religious discussions are on Islam..Many of them likes to Bash Islam…due to hatred..due to ignorance.or the way they are directed by the media..New New terms Created Islamic Terrorism, Islamic Militant…blah..blah…over the decade…Many attack Quran saying outdated book, textbook of terrorism..etc..etc. Many try to attack on on Our Beloved Prophet. and show disrespect., some of them even try to attack “The One”..verbally..BUT I AM NOT SUPRISE THAT MANY OF THESE PEOPLE BECAME MUSLIMS. REGRETED ON THEIR PAST .. .SO HAVE YOUR VEIWS ON ISLAM..BUT BEFORE EXPRESSING HAVE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE…SO THAT YOU MAY NOT REGRET LATTER..”.BEST OF LUCK”…IT is HE who WILLS TO OPEN OR CLOSE YOUR HEART…
    ISLAM IS ONE PURE..MUSLIMS ARE TOO MANY MAY BE THE WHOLE WORLD ONE DAY (IF “THE ONE ” WILLS)..DON’T TRY TO JUDGE ISLAM BASED ON MUSLIMS.. YOU MAY END UP WITH FAKE ONES..

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    85% od the non-Muslims have negative perception on muslims because of the behavior of Muslims..

    You can go on saying it is great, it is peaceful…Nothing is going to change the opinion unless the Islamic violence stops.

    Unless actions compare to what you say , nobody is going to change their minds.. It is that simple..

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    i dont say we are peaceful.if anybody will hurt me i will hurt him.perception is made by media.media is owned by hindu and jewish zoinists.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    then be ready for daisy cutters…how about a nuke on Kaaba?

    ram autar Reply:

    then be ready for daisy cutters…how about a nuke on Kaaba?

    RAJEEV,gnd00s only talk.tell me name of rss man who died fighting for india.do din dookan band ho jai to dhoti hawa mein lahranei lagti hai.

    dont forget payjam khulta hai aage se,
    dhoti khulti hai peeche se.

    there is no taker of ur stupidities in india.if we decide to fight u cowards will have no option except
    to jump in arabian sea.

    Rajeev Reply:

    We have seen 93000 ghazis pooping in Achkans…now they run gutters in pakistan.

  • Binoy Hegde

    Rajeev

    You are absolutely right about “soft” rich jehadis vs poor Muslims. The “soft” ones are the ones who plan and execute.

    - 9/11 Rich educated ‘princes” from Saudi
    -Glasgow airport bombing –Rich kid from Banglore (parents both doctors, own pribvate hospital)
    -Daniel pearl murder, IA hijack, and other murders — Qureshi, **** British from Oxford Univ
    - Manhattan bombing — Shhzad, MBA from US, son of Pakistan ex Air Vice Marshal.
    - Recent arrests in north Kerala and South Canara for attending LeT training in Pakistan — Rich, educated Muslim kids
    - Come to think of it, the only poor foot soldier in the recent terrorist activities is Kasab of 11/26!

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy bhai,

    9/11 was in side job.where are dead bodies of passangers.
    glasgow bombing was indivual act whose close loved one suffered in drone attacks.failed attempt.
    deniel was spy.he has gone to kill others..
    usually brhmn police charge the muslim to provide input to hate mongering media.and make money.cases yet to proved.
    kasab case too is very weak as he is not seen on cctv camera.one maharashtrian hindu woman has submitted affidevite in court seeing him frequently.26/11 was mixed game of fbi ,sacred brhmns and
    brhmns of intellengence beauruae
    who killed terrorists and mutiliated their faced.yet to be known.who cut body parts of infant.jihadis fight
    with military brhmns hurt and kill hapless innocent.they follow surat model.pattern can be seen in
    gujrat riots.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Afghanistan is the main source of opium.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Afghanistan is the main source of opium

    after american occupation.during taliban poppy growing was punishable by death.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Afghanistan is gay capital of the world..

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ram

    I will appreciate you not calling me “bhai”. You are againt India, what it stands for, what it tries to do; negating its accomplishments and spreading hate among people.

    I do not have anything to do with you… and please do not call me bhai

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    BINOY BHAI IAM NOT AGAINST INDIA.IAM AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE MAKING INDIA WEAK AND POOR BY STEALING NATIONAL WEALTH.ESTABLISHMENT IS RUN BY PARIVAR WHILE PARLIAMENT IS RUN BY INDIAN.that is why our laws have no respect.everyday there is scam
    salman broght ganesh to his house so his trial is postponed.snajay dutt is off the hook.modi has not
    gone to jail.daya naik is roaming free,though 3000 crores was found in his account.looters have
    good time.hindu fascists are involve in this game.do anything u want ABUSE PAKISTAN AND BECOME DESHBHAKT.

  • Gautam Gulati

    Just now IM has claimed responsibilty of the blast at Varanasi. And, this guy Zia was
    us to understand muslims. BS.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    blast is work of abhinav bharat.malegaon blast also news ,same news came.only brhmns wants to spoil peace of the country.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pakistan and Afghanistan are center of terror.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    The blast in Varanasi and subsequent statement from IM should force hindus to understand Islam in more details. These are all peaceful blast to make non-muslims learn how peaceful Islam is.

    Zia kind of guys are the main problem..The IM is full of people who profess same ideology as Zia, Bobby, Ravi and Mohammad Autar.

    The time has come to take bull by horn…The foot soldiers are just cannon fodder..the real culprits are their ideological masters.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    malegaon blast news came from the computer of an american sponsored by a brhmn.truth came out with time.this is also work of abhnav bharat.
    there is nothing like IM .it is paper organization made in bjp offices of madhya pardesh and gujrat,to hide their nefarious activities.
    police was in airtel office.in kanpur also on the eve of janmashtami ,an airtel manager died while planting bomb.here also truth will come out if goverment wants.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Afghanistan is the largest producer of drugs.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Zia has been suggesting that others understand Islam. Looking at the situation, I think muslims should try to understand non-muslims. Following should be done so that Islamic fundamentalism which results in terrorism, can be curbed-
    1. Muslims should be compulsarily taught one of the Dharmic religion (not semitic because they are no different from Islam).
    2. Politics should be separated from Islam. Islam like all other religions should be politically defanged.
    3. Religious bigots both soft and hard jehadis should be shunned by moderate Islamic society.

    Non-Muslims should give muslims to reform their community and Islam for a certain period, failing which non-muslim societies should bring laws against controversial Islamic laws and practices.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    rajeev u brhmns are only 2%.common indians hate u.muslims keep u on point of their shoe.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Don’t worry..muslims keep our shoes..

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    controversial Islamic laws and practices

    WHAT ABT LND PUJA.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mohammad himself did LND Puja at KAABA.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Why India is hated: India’s Brahmin PM Nehru provoked a war with China and at least 1 lakh Indian soldiers died (1962) but not 1 Chinese soldier was killed. But the rulers were not at all perturbed. They will be worried only if their jatwalas are killed. All those who died in the Himalayan holocaust were our people (SC/ST/BCs Muslims/Sikhs/Christians).

    The Brahminical logic is that all these fellows died because they were destined to die. They fought for their motherland and died. As India is not their motherland, they are not expected to die and hence they are not bothered about what happens to India. This is the great Brahminical logic.

    Please note: If there is a war tomorrow with the nuclear Pakistan, the rulers will not bothered because those who die will not be their people. It is this hate-mongering policy of the Brahminists that has made India hated by all its neighbours.

    Every country around India is so close to China. That means China is virtually lording over the whole of South Asia, says FT. Lanka hates India despite being Budhist country, but loves China

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pakistan is hub of Islamic terror

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    rss is a headquarter of sodomy in india.

    Rajeev Reply:

    rss sodomised muslims like Mohammad Autar.

  • ram autar

    rajeev u all are wile wicked and chamoleons.any type of derogatory adjective is less as compare to yr deeds.
    varansi blast is new feather in ur cap.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Afghanistan is the capital of opium trade.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Pakistani dictator Zia is speeding through Germany with his chauffeur at the wheel on his way to an important address.

    Driving down a country road, the chauffeur (who is distracted, looking out the window at the countryside) doesn’t see a pig walk out onto the road, and he hits it.

    Stopping the car, he jumps out, and Zia climbs out also to see what is going on.
    The chauffeur, very distressed by what he’s done asks Zia what they should do, and Zia tells him impatiently that they’re in a hurry and they should move the pig to the side of the road and go to the address and worry about it later.

    All the way to the address the chauffeur, who is a fairly good-hearted person despite his employer, is worried about the family who owned the pig and wondered how they’d react to discovering the pig, so when they arrived he asked Zia whether he shouldn’t drive back to the farm and let them know what happened.

    Zia agrees before hurrying to the podium, and the Chauffeur hurries back down the road.

    Four hours later, he was stumbling down the road, his arms full of gifts.

    Zia in a rage demands to know what has happened to him, and the chauffeur explains,
    “I did what I thought was right.

    I went to the farm where I killed the pig.

    When I went and knocked on the door and gave them the news, they gave me these gifts, fed me the best food I’ve ever tasted and then sent me on my way.”

    Zia seemed confused by this and asks his chauffeur, “well what exactly did you tell them”

    To which the chauffeur replied “I really can’t understand it either, all I did was tell them “I’m Zia’s Chauffeur, and I killed the pig.”

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    You’re locked in a room with Saddam Hussien, Adolf Hitler, and a Pakistani.

    You have a gun with two bullets. What do you do?

    Shoot the Pakistani twice to make sure he’s dead.

    What’s brown and black and looks great on a Pakistani?
    A Doberman.

    How can you tell when a Pakistani is lying?
    His lips are moving.

    What do you have when a Pakistani is buried up to his neck in sand?
    Not enough sand.

    Did you Hear about the terrorist that hijacked a 747 full of Pakistanis?
    He threatened to release one every hour if his demands weren’t met.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    an indian is having breakfast one morning; coffee, croissants, bread, butter & jam when a pakistani man, chewing gum, sits down next to him. the indian ignores the pakistani who, nevertheless, starts a conversation:

    pakistan : “you indian folks eat the whole bread??”

    indian (in a bad mood): “of course.”

    pakistani : (after blowing a huge bubble) “we don’t. in pakistan, we only eat what’s inside. the crusts we collect in a container, recycle it, transform them into croissants and sell them to india.

    the pakistani has a smirk on his face. the indian listens in silence.

    the pakistani persists: “do you eat jam with the bread??”

    indian : “of course.”

    pakistani : (cracking his gum between his teeth and chuckling). “we don’t. in pakistan we eat fresh fruit for breakfast, then we put

    all the peels, seeds, and leftovers in containers, recycle them, transform them into jam and sell the jam to india .”

    the indian then asks: “do you have sex in pakistan ?”

    pakistani : “why of course we do”, the pakistani says with a big smirk.

    indian : and what do you do with the condoms once you’ve used them?”pakistani : “we throw them away, of course.”

    indian : “we don’t. in india , we put them in a container, recycle them, melt them down into chewing gum and sell them to pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mattel Toys has announced its newest Barbie doll, “Muslim Barbie”…the doll comes fully accessorized with a burqa, the Koran, and fashionable suicide vest.

    Q. What do you call a Muslim with a slice of ham on his head?
    A. Hamed.

    Q. What about a Muslim with 2 slices of ham on his head?
    A. Mohammed (PBUH).

    Arab scientists have invented a time-travel device that can transport an entire country back to the 7th century. They’re calling it ‘Islam’.

    A Jewish man was riding on the subway reading a Middle East Arabic newspaper.

    A friend of his, who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed and angrily called out, “Moshe, have you lost your mind?

    “Why are you reading an Arabic newspaper?”

    Moshe replied: “I used to read Jewish newspapers, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted worldwide , Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Arabic newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world.

    “Ahhh… The Arabic news is so much better!”.

    Q. What is the UPA Administration’s official term for Muslim terrorist?
    A. The victim.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mohammad Autar walked into the neighborhood mosque and a friend called out, “Hey, Autar, you idiot! You must pull down the shades when you are making sex with your wife. I could see everything last night!”

    Autar put a big grin on his face: “Ha! The joke is on you. I wasn’t even home last night!”

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    grass eater singing a lot.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    ZA Bhutto said pakistanis will eat grass but produce a nuke…Grass eaters.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Benares explosion –

    If the explosion was caused byy non_muslims, those people should be arrested and put in jail for life or given deasth penalty if that is what the law provides for.

    If the explosion is caused by the India Mujahideen; then their audacity to explode at a Hindu sacred place where thousands congregate should be dealt heads on. The reaction should be of a scale that the fu…up Mujahuddins will not attempt these cr— again. Should scare the daylights out

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    history of wolves hinding among hindu sheeps and swallowin them slowly.

    Oct.16, 2009: A bomb went of in Margao, Goa, while it was being transported to target site killing two persons carrying the bomb. NIA charge-sheeted 11 people, members of the Hindu right wing group, Sanatan Sanstha.

    April 4, 2009: A bomb planted in a Beed mosque went off. Ashok Lande (21), Mayur Lande (20) and Tulsidas (Lande 17), arrested for making and planting bomb.

    Sept.29, 2008: RDX bomb blast in Malegaon. Six killed, 101 injured. Eleven members of Abhinav Bharat and Vande Mataram Jan Kalyan Samiti arrested.

    Aug.24, 2008: Two Bajrang Dal members, Rajiv alias Piyush Mishra and Bhupinder Singh, killed inside a hostel room while making a bomb in Kanpur, UP.

    March 2008: A bomb went off at a Panvel cinema. Six persons, two of then Sanatan Sanstha members, arrested.

    June 4, 2008: Six persons, two of them Sanatan sanstha members, arrested for planting a bomb at Thane’s Gadkari Rangayatan.

    Oct.11, 2007: Blast at Ajmer shrine. Three killed.

    May 18, 2007: Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad. Nine killed, more than 58 injured. Two RSS members arrested.

    2006: Dr. Hemant Chalke and Mangesh Nikam involved in Ratnagiri blast.

    Aug.2004: Two Bajrang Dal members threw a bomb at Jalna’s Qadriya mosque during Friday prayers. Four Bajrang Dal members arrested.

    Aug.27, 2004: Bomb blast at Porna’s Madrassa Meraj-ul-Uloom. Four Bajrang Dal members were arrested

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Oct.16, 2009: A bomb went of in Margao, Goa, while it was being transported to target site killing two persons carrying the bomb. NIA charge-sheeted 11 people, members of the Hindu right wing group, Sanatan Sanstha.

    April 4, 2009: A bomb planted in a Beed mosque went off. Ashok Lande (21), Mayur Lande (20) and Tulsidas (Lande 17), arrested for making and planting bomb.

    Sept.29, 2008: RDX bomb blast in Malegaon. Six killed, 101 injured. Eleven members of Abhinav Bharat and Vande Mataram Jan Kalyan Samiti arrested.

    Aug.24, 2008: Two Bajrang Dal members, Rajiv alias Piyush Mishra and Bhupinder Singh, killed inside a hostel room while making a bomb in Kanpur, UP.

    March 2008: A bomb went off at a Panvel cinema. Six persons, two of then Sanatan Sanstha members, arrested.

    June 4, 2008: Six persons, two of them Sanatan sanstha members, arrested for planting a bomb at Thane’s Gadkari Rangayatan.

    Oct.11, 2007: Blast at Ajmer shrine. Three killed.

    May 18, 2007: Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad. Nine killed, more than 58 injured. Two RSS members arrested.

    2006: Dr. Hemant Chalke and Mangesh Nikam involved in Ratnagiri blast.

    Aug.2004: Two Bajrang Dal members threw a bomb at Jalna’s Qadriya mosque during Friday prayers. Four Bajrang Dal members arrested.

    Aug.27, 2004: Bomb blast at Porna’s Madrassa Meraj-ul-Uloom. Four Bajrang Dal members were arrested

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Binoy

    I agree … punish severely if committed by non-Muslims to portray Muslims negatively, and whack the sh– out of Muslims if they committed this.

    No more for either

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    I abhor violence in general and specifically hate any violence perpitrated in the name of religion.

    My thoughts are with the bereaved families and with those who have been hurt in this mindless deplorable act.

    However, lets not all become knee jerk reactionaries. Already, there are plenty of those here.

    No violence takes place in a total vaccum, there is always a reason behind it. Fathoming out as to what that reason is, can be a tricky business. Political forces are always involved, both before and after any bomb explosion. It is never fully clear as to who the REAL perpetrators are not even from the apparent calims made immidiately after the blast.

    To put a context around this, let us consider the folowing:

    1. The words of Narendra Modi.

    …”you have fucked the mother of [Muslims]. The volcano which was inactive for years has erupted. It has burnt the arde of [Muslims] and made them dance nude. We have united the penises which were tied till now. Without castor oil in the arse we have made them cry.

    2. Pamphlet distributed in Gujaratn during the riots.

    Wake up Hindus, there are still [Muslims] alive around you. Learn from Panvad village where their mother was fucked. She was fucked standing while she kept shouting, she enjoyed the uncircumcised penis. With a Hindu government the Hindus have the power to annihilate [Muslims].

    Kick them in the arse to drive them out of not only villages and cities but also the country.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    dont forget modi is teeli.semi literate and teaboy of road side restraunt in gujrat.what can u expect from him.his home minister is caught next is his chance.brhmns want to finish this shudra.as their work is over.like mahatama ghandhi..

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    @Ravi

    It is not appropriate to spread innuendos and hate for one who “abhors violence”. You could have stated the first half only and not stated the second half if your objective is to avoid violence.

    Modi cannot speak English. You have quoted a speech he may have or not made , obviously translated by a biased person, with qualifying words like Muslims inserted at will. Can you give reference details of this speech – when, where, and full speech..Is this reported/archived by any newspaper?

    Modis Gujrat, btw, is the most peaceful satte now without any religious skirmishes.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    I note that you oppose me, without actually adding anything your self.

    I hope you are not saying that Narendra Modi did not say what I have quoted from page 186 – The Clash Within, by Martha Nussabaum. She is a professor, please tell me what axe has she got to grind.

    So because there have be no reported religious skirmishes in gujarat recently, does that excuse his language and or the riots he encouraged.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi Pakistani, from a rational humanist.can you provide us with the citation for the Modi speech. The pamphlet is pretty much true , but that speech is unlikely , because he is a politician , with that language he will have trouble even with his hard core female and elder supporters.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi

    Martha Nassbaum can write anything she wants – to me she belongs to the crowd “but not all Muslims are not terrorists”….She is biased to the core.

    She ran to LA Times on November 30.2008, when India and Mumbai ere still reeling under the Islamist attacks on Mumbai 11/26. So she publishes this article — why Muslims did this attack (before getting all the info), how they are discriminated in India (and that “naturally” led to this attck/”expression”), and a a result of this, there will be Indiawide attacks on Muslims because right wing Hindus just would not take it sitting down.

    Read the Nov 30/2008 article in LA Times.

    She never pologized for her 1) blaming Indian Muslims for the attck 2) Blaming Indians as a whole for potential attacks in response to this and 3) for her total lack of understanding of indians (but she continues to write books bout India).

    So Ravi, I do not believe anything she says on whatever page… What Iknow for sure with 100% assurance is that Modi did not make that speech because he does not know English.

    Vinay Reply:

    1. Martha Nussabaum, has referred to Tanika Sarkar (a JNU faculty) for these words. Tanika Sarkar, in an article called “Ethnic Cleansing in Gujarat” describes them as VHP leaflets circulated in Gujarat, signed by Chinubhai Patel.
    2. One can’t make out, what could have been written in Gujarati in this translation. A word “Pourush” could have been translated as valour or in the above way.
    One can have an argument whether Gurajat riots can be called as ethnic cleansing, but no Hindu can feel proud of whatever that happened.

    We still have not found out the culprits behind Varanasi bombing (just because someone posted an email). Who knows, there could be a Hindu group behind it as well. I don’t want to speculate anything. But I want a severe punishment to whoever found guilty. What puzzles me is these kinds of “secular” (presuming Muslims are behind) arguments which state Godhra riots (which happened 8 years ago) as the “real reason” instead of “religious brainwashing”.

    I am fed up of reading the same script again and again. Zia writing on Islamist terror says “An elusive end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict means the “cause” remains alive.” So, the real cause for the international terror is the Israel-Palestinian territorial dispute, not the religious training camps in Af-Pak border. Now Gujarat is the reason for Varanasi bombing. What next?

    There is never a word called “introspection”. But always a call for “others” to understand Islam better.

    @Raju Kurain,

    As far the reference details you were asking, you can get it in any Pak hate websites, like this one. http://www.paktribune.com/pforums/posts.php?t=42135&start=1

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ravi

    A pamphlet is better than petrification
    An Islamofascist musch preferable to Islamist killer
    Advise your brothersto be peaceful — otherwise they will not know peace in india..never again!

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Vinay

    severe punishment for either group is fine… However, I will go one step further if the Islamists are behind it – I will hand out a “collective punishment” a ka Israeli doling to West Bankers. And of course State of India cannot do that– so people will have to hand it out

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    I appreciate your reasoned post here.

    You have made some points which feel I must answer.

    1. I was not drawing a direct link between, 8 year old Gujarat Riots and 2 day old Varanasi Bomb. However, there are people here, who feel that 400 year old attrocities of Aurangzeb still have not been avenged. All I was pointing out was the pervailing atmosphere. The tension still remains between the two communities, for what ever reasons. I was only providing a context within which this deplorable act must be seen.

    2. We conviniently believe that all “Islamic Violence” has a single root – Islam. Surely historical facts do not support this hypothesis. For example:

    3. Al Qaida violence is to do with US foriegn Policy in the middle east.

    4. Pakistan, has created and adopted muslim fundamantalist groups as a form of extension to deniable low key war with India on the issue of Kashmir.

    5. Israel/Palestine dispute has its own muslim warring groups, who sadly use terrorism – as a weapon. Hezbula, is one of them and it is totally focused on Israel.

    6. The Sunni/Shite divide has its own secterian Violent groups and state suporters.

    Tactics of Hindu Right RSS as well as VHP are too well known and I agree with your suspicions.

    DUDE Reply:

    ravi and ramn auter total dumb muzzos

    Amy Reply:

    If there has been demonizing of Islam, then the only positivity that has come out it is that more people in a liberal society want to know about Islam, Muslim and their culture, society. We are beginning to see a flood of books from Vali Reza’s Literary history of Islam to Deepak Chopra’s Muhammad.The challenge is to delink terrorism with jihad since jihad is waged to establish the Islamic order it is automatically connected to threat.All civilizations have their unique worldview . When Muslims protesting American foreign policy are themselves claiming to be jihadist they attract public outrage and not a rethinking of policy.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Muslims. Culture? That will be a good idea!

    ram autar Reply:

    because of islam concept of equality and justice came to india.that is why from MN ROY TO VIVEKANAND,all advised poors to convert and embrass islam.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    The fundamental issue is that (a huge majority of) Muslims see everything only through a religious prism, and it makes it difficult for them to operate in the modern world – democracy, legislative process etc is halal and haram for them; world is divided into believers and infidels (kauffers), some do believe kauffers should be eliminated, they believe there are lands of Msulims and lands of non-Muslims …Many still long for Caliphs; one of their “modern” leaders/guides, Maudidi (a venomous, hateful man), propagated many lunatic theories of integarting religion into ruling, Pakistan is on fire because of his teachings (Banga Desh banned his books)…And they all believe a Muslim cannot be a terrorist and the whole terrorism is a “manufactured” story by US, Israel, and India.

    You go to any social blogs… the first question you get from a Muslim is “are you a Muslim” when you interact with a Muslim,

    shan Reply:

    @Raju Kurien , I have first hand experience , there is a cricket club where I live ., young asians mainly turn up . I heard a pakistani kid asking a new kid on the block Are you a muslim., not only that in primary schools suddenly teachers saw young kids age eight not eating their lunch , when asked replied i am fasting because of Ramazan.

    ram autar Reply:

    so what.

    S Singh Reply:

    @Kurien

    The “caliphate” mentality and reverence/subservience to power is widely prevalent among Muslims; in fact it is the only ’sustaining” and sustainable mode among Muslims.

    It is not just accident that the military ruled Pakistan for many years,and even todfay, after 65 years, it is still the dominant entity there. Bangla Desh seems to be getting out of military control; we shall see. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, all the little shi—holes in middle east, Morocco, Sudan etc are ruled by dictators or kings. Indonesia seems to have come out of the grips of strong men like Sukarno and Suharto. But time will tell, because they also have the crazy jehadis running around to take them back to the glory of 600s.

    Pakistani public gets enraged (rightfully) when a dromne attack kills five people. However, they do not see any problem in a Muslim bomber killing 100 in a suicide attack. Muslims have never spoken against the genocide in Darfur, because it is Muslims killing Muslims. They never had a problem when a million mMuslims were killed in Iran/Iraq war.

    ram autar Reply:

    drones have killed 2000 people in pakistan 99%innocent and childrens.suicide bombeing is`brotherly fight.drone attack is foriegn attack.this is cia attack on the people who are not involved in war.fighting is going in helmund provice and kabul.

    ram autar Reply:

    Muslims have never spoken against the genocide in Darfur, because it is Muslims killing Muslims. They never had a problem when a million mMuslims were killed in Iran/Iraq war.

    darfur mascare is a lie.there is war because britishers and americans have armed trained some youth.darfur has uranium gold and oil.people of darfur are very stauch muslims.iran iraq war all muslims had concerned.90%of muslims used to curse saddam for that.cia initiated this.all these wars has consumed its perpetutaors.saddam and america both have gone.

    if an indian is killed by foreigner ,there will be more reaction.

    Ravi Reply:

    All

    I am not sure if you guys have noticed.

    “….I will hand out a “collective punishment” a ka Israeli doling to West Bankers. And of course State of India cannot do that– so people will have to hand it out……”

    Binoy is advocating a RIOT in India, while he lives outside of it.

    This is kind of Hindu we need.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi pakistani from shan hindustani, would you kindly tell us what was the motivating factor for BALI (by the way, that is a hindu majority island in the most populous MUSLIM COUNTRY CALLED INDONESIA)BOMBING. with whom were the indonesian terrorist settling scorewith

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN – Lun Goat wearing vivisectioned banobo Chimp.

    I am learning to be a Rationalist and a Humanist. Who better to learn these noble traits from than your self the semi-trained butcher.

    Perhaps you can explain which of Y O U R following sayings are Rational and which are Humanist ……

    1. (as much pinko pseudo liberals want that to disappear ,it aint going to go away)

    2. also somebody should have sent her a DVD of the movie MARKET starring Monisha Koirala ,which showed Arabs sixty plus coming to hyderabad for nikah (read only sex as they vanish, and it is happening with saudis all over the world and the mullahs have come up with a new terminology for this kind of one night stand and authenticated under the aegis of quoran) with thirteen year old.

    3. @Ashish,That is your opinion and that’s fine.I think it is bizarre to expect a market of such a third grade book that too on indian economy in UK.I dont know if you are There are more takers of Jeffrey , caught with a hooker Archer in India than USA,and that is a fact according to sales figures.The point about mental enslavement is very important .

    4. So What does Miss Roy and her chela bobby suggest. Leave kashmir in the hands OF FIDAYEEN .
    Apparently the scums (azadi jihadi complex) told the pandits MEN FOLKS LEAVE , YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR WOMEN FOLKS BEHIND

    5. @Ram Autar , you f u ck ed up as sh ole , why dont you you emigrate to bangladesh we bloggers will pay for your passage.

    6. Far more pressing isFORTY PERCENT people in Marxist west bengal do not have food all through the year THEY GO HUNGRY , hunger is widespread , every research has shown this. So those firingee inspired dreams for another day.

    7. Why doesn’t Prof Nandi come to these blogs , I for one will give him a hard time. Perhaps because he breathes the fetid air of delhi it makes him completely oblivious to the current state of affairs in WHITE WORLD.

    8. @Bobby , Bamiyan Buddha wasa UNESCO HERITAGE SITE. If Babri masjid was I WOULDN’T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT RAM LALA , it needed to be prserved just like Taj Mahal . But it wasn’t IT WAS A DERELICT unused mosque , SO I CANT SEE A GREAT DEAL OF PROBLEM THERE. As regards Shiv Sena it is Glioblastoma grade4(the most vicious cancer known to man). In fact I have commented elsewhere I think it is far far far grave danger to india’s security, this is one virus if not exterminated will one day eat up the whole body politic and there will not be an India as we know it.

    9. @gopi thomas, no need for oops, both are valid . To call india secular is like calling bin laden , a gandhian

    10. Hindus should ask for “holocaust type reparations” from Muslims.
    Muslims killed 80 million hindus and forcefully converted many under violence/death/jizya.
    muslims should be ashamed of all the things..instead they want to continue this jihad..

    11. @MJ akbar is a hypocrite through and through , he was rabidly vocal against the
    supreme court verdict in shah bano case. Also he was a congress lackey , now is an example of a perfect turncoat.

    So semi skilled butcher S H A N , from the comfort of your Kent home, can you review some of your statements and match each of them to the definitions of RATIONALITY and Humanity.

    No sooner you have done that I will be only too glad to rationalise the Indonesial Islamist violence in Bali.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    And what score was being settled when the aeronautical engineer(son of the Muslim physician couple from Bangalore (who own a hospital andare in te upper crust of the society) exploded to kill people in Glasgow airport?

    When the Spanish train station was bombed?

    When Daniel pearl was murdered? Was DAniel pearl paying for the Jewish atrocities?

    When Bangalore, Hyderabad, Delhi et al were bombed?

    When godhra train was set ablaze?

    When Philippines is bombed?

    Why do a Pakistani Muslim or a Uzbek Muslim go to Germany and explode?

    shan Reply:

    @raju kurien, you didn’t get it, this is how pakistanis behave, “We are victims of terror, there is no state actors , islam is a religion of peace , thus all the suicidebombers couldn’t have done it as it against islam. Similarly this circumcised ravi says I hate paedophiles yet his his room is stacked with child porn. He doesn’t like foul language yet describes the expletives with candour, this is taquiya in full swing.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    TO: The Semi Skilled Butcher From Medway and His arse licking Chamcha

    This about as far from the truth as it possibly can get. I do not defend either Muslims or Islam or any form of Terrorism.

    I merely provide equivalnce, becaus you two are hell bent on blaming every thing on Mulsims.

    What Ram Autar – so very dilligently – shows you is the prism through which Hinduism can be viewed. It does not paint as rosey a picture you have been duped into believing.

    So the problem is not with us – liberals – but it is with you the HINDU FUNDOs who perpetually provide a distorted picture here.

    You guys are crypto fascists

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    and u r an Islamist (that too endorsing Ram Avtar — muist eb a sad state of intellect for Muslims)!

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I rather be called an Islamist than an idiot. That is what you are.

    Remeber the lesson about two can play this game.

    I suggest argue rather than call names. I can do both so it is no skin of my nose. Be my guest.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi,
    Do you want to play this game with me?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Guys,
    You can try all you want to convince cyber jehadis that muslims need to understand non-muslims and cease violence but they won’t. They will come up with Babri everytime you ask them about violence. Was there no muslim violence prior to Babri? There are hundreds of documented riots all over India even before babri happened.
    When you ask about violence done by muslims in west, the standard reply is some jewish-american conspiracy.
    When you ask about violence in pakistan, they turn around and blame HINDU dominated RAW.

    These people are convinced that Islam is perfect and violence sanctioned by Quran is justified.

    I think civillized world should take Islamic threat seriously now else it will be too late.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I totally agree. Well, i understand there is a dfference between Islamic threat and Islamist threat. That there is no Islamic threat, but Islamist threat. Whatever it is, it indeed is a major threat to all
    democracies.

    Pakistan is the centrifuge providing training, arms, logistics, financial support etc. Colin Powell’s asst, before the Afghnistan war, told Mushraff either to join US in the attack against terrorists or risk being bombed back to 6th century It looks like they have to be bombed to the 6th century so the terrorists will not have a state sponsor.

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy,
    before the Afghnistan war, told Mushraff either to join US in the attack against terrorists or risk being bombed back to 6th century It looks like they have to be bombed to the 6th century so the terrorists will not have a state sponsor.

    this is absolute lie propagated by pak army.TURKEY REFUSED ,WHAT THEY COULD DO,NOTHING.
    IF PAKISTAN THEY HAD ,NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO BEG THEM FOR SUPPORT.without pak support they can not stay there even for week.all their logistics pass through pakistan.they provide intelligence.all top alqaida leader were captured because of pakistan.

    for pak army leaders it was good chance to make money and continue their undemocratic dectorial
    rule.

    ram autar Reply:

    NOTHING.
    IF PAKISTAN THEY HAD ,

    if pakistan said no,they had no other option except to beg them for help.

    ram autar Reply:

    pakistan, they turn around and blame HINDU dominated RAW

    this is right.but there are other forces are also involve in voilence.

    When you ask about violence done by muslims in west, the standard reply is some jewish-american conspiracy.
    no zoinists conspiracy.where there is no america there is no violence..friendship with america is increasing.india will be like pakistan.
    around 66 muslim ,there is no problem.

    Rajeev Reply:

    high on Afeem

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    I hope you do not mind if I say, when it comes to believing between Martha – a learned Professor and YOU, I will choose Martha.

    She knows what she is talking about, you are just a FAN

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Pakistanis and their belief systems! hahaahha…give me a break!

    Ravi Reply:

    Have a break, have a shit cat.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Martha is learned and you are a dumbo

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi

    You are the worst as it comes –

    You say you abhor violence..But you skillfully bring in Modi, attribute a lousy speech to him, bring in events of a decade ago as a “potential” justification for the potential culpability of the Varanasi Mujahiddin. We,a s of now, do not know who did this. But you wanted to do a “preemptive” justification, if it was done by this mujhidin.

    And then you bring in Modi’s speech, which it looks like that he never made it, A referenec to a pamphlet in somebody’s book is now equal to Modi making a speech.

    So, let us take your logic that islamists are justified in this crime (again, I am not blaming them) because of the Gujrat atrocities many years ago. Does that mean that Hindus are justified for revenge on the atrocities committed by Muslims over 800 years?

    Shame on you! .

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    I was wondering if you have read the book The Clash Within, by Marthe C. Nussabaum.

    I highly reccomend it. It will give you food for thaught.

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    I do not know if r Modi speaks English or not. But I do know that this ….

    …”you have fucked the mother of [Muslims]. The volcano which was inactive for years has erupted. It has burnt the arde of [Muslims] and made them dance nude. We have united the penises which were tied till now. Without castor oil in the arse we have made them cry.

    …is not English.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Ravi,

    I think there is a mistake. These are not Modi’s words, but rather part of the pamphlet praising Modi:

    “Narendra Modi, you have fucked the mother of [Muslims]
    The volcano which was inactive for years has erupted
    It has burnt the arse of [Muslims] and made them dance nude
    We have untied the penises which were tied till now
    Without castor oil in the arse we have made them cry”

    Of course, the reason why such praises are being heaped on MOdi is because the VHP knows how he had given orders, to the police to do NOTHING for three days… as has confessed on camera by many VHP members, filmed by the tehelka team

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    That may well be true.

    So are you contending that Modi, did not say these words, but his publicist the VHP wrongly attributed these words to him in a pamphlet.

    Should that be true, does that actually make any material difference to the point that any violence must be contextulised in the pervailing atmosphere.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @bobby, thanks for derobing the pakistani. Narendra modi is a muslim hater , MOST GUJRATI HINDUS ARE, i beleive that gujrat progrom was NOT A ONE MAN HANDIWORK , whatever tehelka have to say. as i have reiterated several times there is a social malaise in gujrat , there is deep seated hatred for muslims by the hindus. you dont need tehelka , their are enough “live” TV footage , showing missiles exchanged from adjacent houses. Also I cannot say GODHRA HAD NO ROLE IN ITS GENESIS, if i do then I am not a rationalist but a HYPOCRITE.

    Ravi Reply:

    For once I agree with you, particularly on the bit about you being a Hypcrite

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    No, he is not saying that either. He is saying that Modi did not say that; that these were ‘general” propaganda material in a pamphlet, not attributed to any specific person.

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Ravi,

    I am only saying that in Martha Nussbaum’s book- Which I have a copy of, the way this appears is not as Modi’s words, but rather as a praise of Modi as i described. You can easily the get the relevant part of the book on Google Books.

    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=JLMQh4oc38gC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Clash+Within,+by+Martha+Nussbaum&hl=en&ei=5rD_TKy3MIuGvAOi7Jy0Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=true

    If you go to page 186, you can get the exact text quoted there.

    I am of course not contesting the FACT that there was a genocide in Gujarat, orchestrated by the VHP and the Gujarat government of the time- Narendra Modi being totally involved in planning and helping the genocide to happen.

    The SC itself has called him a “Modern Day Nero”. The Tehelka tapes are testimony to Modi’s role. The innumerable witnesses, national and international human rights investigations all clearly point to 2002 “riots” being a pogrom.

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    Thanks for this.

    I have the book with me. Had I known that it was available online, it would have made my job easier. I typed the portions of text I posted.

    I find the book fascinating, an eye opener.

    shan Reply:

    @bobby page 186 is not accessible through google books , however i take your words for it , though I am baffled why we need Firingees to tell us about our problems , when did you last read a book by an Indian on the plight of BLACK americans in USA.

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan

    page 186 is very much accessible through Google books. I just accessed it now.
    (Just click on contents)

    How does it matter who is telling us about “our problems”. Killing humans can not be “our problem”, just like killing Jews in Nazi Germany cannot be a “German problem”

    Modi and his gang of butchers are a very powerful group, we, (or rather the victims of 2002 gujarat pogrom) need all the help in the world to expose them. I dont think patriotism or love for “OUR” country can be an excuse in this regard.

    Ravi Reply:

    ALI Shan the butcher from Medway.

    That is beacuse Indians are too busy reading Jane’s Weekly on Stealth Terrorists, and because they think Black Americans are Hubshi – just like you!

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, stone me, holocaust is not a german problem , it is an ARYAN!!!! and by extension Indian problem. It is the germans who need to do soul searching , just like gujratis need to do, as a bengalee I need to do no soul searching because the state where I grew up the muslim population has steadily climbed to 21%.

    shan Reply:

    @bobby , went to the link again , and clicked contents , it says page 86-213 is not accesssible in this preview, which is understandable , why on earth will they let you read for free. however my local county library will get it for me in no time. Though I have to get through the biography of Hitler by a german scholar , all english scholar versions are tinged with rage for all the havoc hitler wrought on Britain including hastening the demise of empire.

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan,

    I dont know what link you went to, its clearly accessible to me.

    It amazes me that you say that holocaust is an Indian or Aryan problem.. Its a human problem. Its a problem for any decent human being. Same with 2002 pogrom

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, there is a saying “Apna apna por por , je na chenay borbor”, i dont know how best to translate , People need to look after their kith and kin those who dont are barbarians.
    just ti inform you the jews who immigrated to israel from India , are looked down by the “white skin” european jews. I had a patient , she was would you beleive it from calcutta . I asked her if she socialised with the others (this was stamford hill) , meaning the hassidic and the sephradim ones. she said they dont like to mix with us A BIT LI.KE YOUR CASTE SYSTEM. goodnesss remains goodness upto a certain point , after that it becomes stupidity.

    ram autar Reply:

    modi is monkey of nagpur based blood thirsty brhmns.ex-tea boy of a roadside rest.but now same brhmns are after his neck.he has become another advani.but now 70%of muslims support him.he has provided peace to gujrat.creator of wealth wants peace to work.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    All

    Including the tight Lun Goat wearing Irrational Inhuman Saffron Fundo – Ali Shan.

    Both these quotes are from Page 186 of The Clash Within, by Martha Nussabaum.

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    So, how is Zia’s prescription (let non-Muslims learn about Islam in schools) going to prevent these Mujahuddins from killing others? It is not the non-Muslims who are wearing vests to explode; it is Muslims! hello!

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    how is Zia’s prescription (let non-Muslims learn about Islam in schools) going to prevent these Mujahuddins from killing others? It is not the non-Muslims who are wearing vests to

    mr singh everything depends on circumtances.tamil tigers were not muslims.latin mamerican are not muslims.dr arnesto che guera was not muslimthose who are wearing vests are freedom fighters.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Those people did not travel to other countries and explode like the Muslims do ! A Pakistani Muslim is exploding in UK for Iraq! A Yemeni Muslim is exploding in Paris for Chechnya!

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    till america vacate the area attacks on america and its allies will continue.indians were doing same,when under occupation.

    Ashish Reply:

    @S Singh,
    So, how is Zia’s prescription (let non-Muslims learn about Islam in schools) going to prevent these Mujahuddins from killing others? It is not the non-Muslims who are wearing vests to explode; it is Muslims! hello!
    It won’t! But, the benefit is that you will be able to understand their reason for blowing you up better :)

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    say GODHRA HAD NO ROLE IN ITS GENESIS, if i do then I am not a rationalist but a HYPOCRITE.

    mr shan,

    reserved copmartment at godhra was fired by goons of vhp.to provide reason for gujrat riot which was preplanned.within hours MAZAR of sufi saint wali gujrati was demolished(he had 70%hindu following).within days road was built by municipality.ahmadabad surat and all other important cities were built by moghuls.hindu banias were the main benefeciary of this act.shivajee always looted these places ,whenever in need of money.were most beuatiful cities of world of his time.ahmadabad had population of 10 lacs in 16th century when paris had mud houses.
    since 1969 rss with the help support of brhmns is organizing brutal communal riots.
    passengers of that reserved bogey are alive.who died ,why the bogey was sold in hurry.are the questions unawnsered even now.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Once again, Zia is trying to miimize Islamic terrorism under the cover of “all sorts of terrorism there” ; and the world may be better, only if children learned about all religions in school.

    There have been scores of arrests here of young, educated, rich Muslim kids for attending terrorist training camps in Pakistan and in Kashmir.

    Investigation into the “chopping of the christian professor’s hand” is still continuing. The information unearthed is not good fro Muslims, about “talibanistic style courts” ordering punishments to be meted out to Muslims and non-Mus;ims.

    I simply fail to understand how these will be stopped by others learning about Islam. On the contrary, there is a negative potential that more foot soldiers will be created for Islamists if Islamic training is given to others at an impressionable age!

    It may not be a bad idea for Muslims to be taught that kauffers are human beings too, that infidels are as loving people as fidels etc..

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    William Butler Yeats (At his very best)

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Ravi pakistani from shan hindustani, would you kindly tell us what was the motivating factor for BALI (by the way, that is a hindu majority island in the most populous MUSLIM COUNTRY CALLED INDONESIA)BOMBING. with whom were the indonesian terrorist settling scorewith

    shan,
    bali bombing was the act australian jews.those days ,they were frightened of american backlash against them.but somehow they managed.halliburton shifted to dubai.because of tiger economies australia was more attractive.slowly australia became their next headquarter.wtc towers were purchased by a austrlaian jew for 3.2 billion.insured for 7.1 billions.main players of the game made 3.9 billions without doing anything.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    What a pity our idli-sambar, micro-minority, grass-eating papans have killed the world’s most popular game — football.

    Their heart is in the stupid cricket, a game which is neither man nor woman. IPL frauds. Olympics has ranked India at 133, below some unknown islands. What a shame that the Brahminical India is at the bottom in everything — though it is the world’s No.2 in population. But No.1 in bragging, boasting, cheating, manipulating. Shameless fellows.

    The hate-mongering Brahminists starved our robust Muslims and SC/ST/BCs, banned cow slaughter which made them weak and killed their stamina, affecting our sports. Vegetarianism killed our sports which will be proved in the coming Delhi Commonwealth Games in which India will eat the dust.

    Brahminists are killing India itself. We have said it repeatedly. A land where milk and honey were once flowing is today blighted beyond recognition

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    high on hashish

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    shan and benoy,if not the world, to perfect a new theory that the Jews controlling the West and the 3% Brahminists holding the neck of India are blood brothers.

    this theory is hailed by the Western experts on Jews as a path-breaking thesis. Both the enemies of humanity hail from Eastern Asia and originally called Khazhars. One section migrated to West and called itself Jews, killed Jesus, held the Pope under hostage, throttled Christianity, brought about two World Wars. And now all set to launch a third one.

    A section of the Jews walked into India, destroyed the world’s second greatest Indus Valley Civilization, killed Budhism, made monkeys out of Muslims, inspired the Jewish-controlled British empire to invade India, groomed the Gujarati Bania into Mahatma and finally killed him after making a Kashmiri Brahmin the first PM. For the past 63 years they have been ruling India in close collaboration with the Jews and the zionist state of Israel. Fortunately their career is ending.

    To introduce this crime-filled history to the innocent Indians and the Western Christians, i recommend u to read ,
    1. BRAHMINISM IN INDIA & ZIONISM IN THE WEST,
    by v.t. rajshekhar

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    The most favourite pastimes of the Jews and the “Jews of India” are sex, nudity, homosexuality, binge drinking, cricket, Bollywood pomp and boasting. Their media is nothing but shit so that our souls are fed with saw dust. Those interested in a more elaborate study of the Illulminati, the zionist Jews and their Indian Brahminical counterparts may order photocopy of Protocols of the World of Zion which is the carbon copy of the Chanakya’s Arthasastra.

    M.K. Gandhi was not a Brahmin but he promoted Brahminism better than the best Brahmin. Hence he was called “Father of the nation”.

    INDIA IMPRISONED

    Like the Jews, their Brahminist cousins are collectively killing all our senses and programmed us to focus on sex, violence, trivia, property, stock market, entertainment, drinking, eating, cheating — Kamasutra.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Most of the prostitutes in South Asia are muslims…Why???

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Prostitution – India

    Tribes in India Push Their Females into Prostitution

    Feb 10, 2010 Raj Kaushik

    Even over half a century after independence, there are a number of tribes across India which earn a livelihood by forcing their women into sex trade.

    Walking around in Basai Khurd, an urban village on the outskirts of Agra, the city famous for Taj Mahal, after sunset gives an eerie feeling. There are groups of men standing outside houses and talking in hush-hush tones.

    There are men walking back and forth in the streets, craning their necks to leer at the young women doing domestic chores inside the affluent-looking houses. The women, decked with grease-paint, jewelry and other knick-knacks occasionally return the glances of men in the street.

    Where Prostitution is a Family Tradition

    An overwhelming majority of people residing in Basai Khurd belong to Bedia tribe, a tribe notorious for pushing their daughters into prostitution and dance bars. In fact, there are a number of such villages around Agra who do the same.

    The village, housing over 3,000 people was in the limelight five years back when Maharashtra State government decided to close dance bars in Mumbai, the megalopolis, considered the financial capital of India. Half a dozen such girls were arrested by Agra police on the allegation that they got into prostitution after the closure of dance bars.

    The Bedia tribe’s connection with prostitution is as old as the Taj Mahal, the monument built by Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in the memory of his wife Mumtaz Mahal. It is believed that the Bedia women were settled near Agra to entertain labourers who built the Taj Mahal.

    The tradition has continued in many families over the years though there are also people who got a proper education and moved away from the trade. So much so that the tribe is famous for celebrating the birth of a daughter and many Bedia women even go for PNDT (Pre-Natal Determination Tests) to make sure that they give birth to baby girls.

    Bedia is not the only tribe of its kind. There are hundreds of other tribes settled in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh and other States which have a tradition of putting their daughters into prostitution.

    “About 20 to 25 percent of prostitutes in India belong to tribes where prostitution is a family tradition. These are settled in interiors of Rajasthan, Maharashtra and other States,” says Khairati Lal Bhola, president of Bharatiya Patita Uddhar Sabha (loosely translated -Indian Association for reforming prostitutes), a group involved in welfare of prostitutes and their children for over three decades.

    Cosmetic Vendors in Villages Part of Prostitution Racket

    Besides Bedias, the other tribes involved into prostitution include Kanjars, Nuts and Sanshis. Bhola attributed the practise to tradition, illiteracy, extreme poverty and lack of development. “There is no industry there and funds meant for their development are gobbled up by corruption.”

    Bhola (85), whose organisation works in over 10 States of India, put the number of prostitutes working in 1100 red light areas of India at over two million.

    Bhola accused brothel owners of setting up a network in the tribal areas to lure women from there into prostitution. “The cosmetic vendors operating in these areas are at the lowest rung of the network. The vendors inform brothel owners’ agents about poor families. The agents in cahoots with the brothel keepers buy girls from poor families,” he alleged.

    Note: Bedia Tribe

    Ranked as a Scheduled Tribe in India, the Bedia tribe inhabits Madhya Pradesh and Bihar. Earlier, they were regarded as a ‘warrior’ group.

    A series of military defeats in the earlier times forced them to resort to prostitution, hunting and illicit brewing. Initially they had a nomadic style of life. They were known to be skilled in the folk arts of dance and music, rural acrobatics and black magic. It is believed that to a member of the warrior caste, robbery or prostitution is preferable to manual labor. During the British colonial rule, the Bedias were branded a criminal tribe. These people are notorious for their tradition of introducing girls into prostitution.

    Marriage generally is not allowed for Bedia girls, especially within their community, although community marriages do occur sparingly. But once these marriages take place within their own community, Bedia girls are not permitted to dance or resort to prostitution.

    In the Bedia tribe, it is the men who pay large dowry to marry a girl. They often seek brides from other communities.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    but at the end of the day most of the prostitutes are muslims…

    shan Reply:

    @idiot autar your wordsMarriage generally is not allowed for Bedia girls, so where do the bedia girls spring from in next generation ALLAH sends the virgins down

    ram autar Reply:

    vashisht was the guru of rajputs .he married his mother who happen to be prostitute of her time.
    i forgot her name ,rajeev may help.balram married his sister.all their bhagwans has bad parentage.

    shan bhai ur questin is very valid .but what is bedia girls.if i feel any shortage i know the mobile numbers of ICHCHADHARI BABA and nityanand.

    ram autar Reply:

    almost every lady of hindu middle class resort to prostitution to get 2 meals a day.95%of prostitute are hindus.all rss people are gand00s like savarkar and hegdewar.brhma used to fk his daughters ,hence u all are progenies of incest.why sanghis sleep with with shivlng in their as….

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Brahma’s lust: (1) According to a fable of Hindu religion Brahma acted as a priest to officiate the marriage of god Paramasiva with Parvathi. When Parvathi went round the sacred fire (omakundam) she held the end of the apron cloth with her left hand before going round. It enabled Brahma to have a clear look at the Parvathi’s thighs. On seeing the thighs, Brahma became a victim of lust. Brahma’s semen poured out. Brahma left the semen in a vessel near the sacred fire. Immediately Agasthiar was born.

    (2) When Parvathi came around the sacred fire again, Brahma once again relished her thighs and he once again became a victim to lust and semen poured out once again. This time he left the semen on the green plants, creepers and trees. This time a number of saints (rishis) were born in no time. Of them Valkilliyathe was one

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    We all have heard that Pakis re all claiming Arab ancestry. here is another gem:

    Speaking to the Turkish Parliament, Prime Mi nister Yusuf Gilani said ” We do not just share a crescent on our flags; we share a common history and ancestry”

    No wonder the country produces “high end” terrorissts … a country busily wiping off its heritage and history.. One day he is Arab,,another day A Turk.. Jokers indeed

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    We all have heard that Pakis re all claiming Arab ancestry. here is another gem

    5%yes.95%local convert.those local dont claim.high caste 100%non indian.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy,

    a country busily wiping off its heritage and history.. One day he is Arab,,another day A Turk.. Jokers indeed

    the `above shows ur`lck of knowledge and u look to joker.geelan is city in iran which is close to the border of turky.
    turks were the first to civilize india.they taught indian ,how to live nicely.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Turks also showed how to keep HAREM

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan mian,

    yeh dil walon kee baat hai beemaron ki nahin.

    shan Reply:

    @ram autar, yeh bimar kee baat hai , dil kee nahi

    shan Reply:

    @Ram Mia, agar dil kee baat hoti toh ,wahan KHOJA rakh ney na parta.(KHOJA, black prepubertal kids forcibly abducted from their parents , then their TESTIS chopped off. If this is done prepubertal , these “men” grow up with no sexual attraction for females, as you need the male hormones to condition the brain . but if you do after puberty then though sex drive is bound to reduce , but it wont be zero.

  • ram autar

    India’s ambassador frisked at US airport

    this is our respect in the eyes of americans.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    It all started after your people did the 9/11. Blame your Jehadi brothers

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy sept 11 was their work.WHERE ARE DEAD BODIES OF THE PASSENGERS.wtc tower came down in 57 minutes.hit from plane cannot demolish a tower with 200million tons of steel.she was ambassdor.but for choosen people ,others are cattles only.a man has searched ,body of women in front of everybody.u are an american agent.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    @Ravi,

    1. First of all, you put the words in mouth of a person which was not fact.

    2. As Shan pointed early, a Gujarati Hindu cannot think and act like rest of the Hindus in India. Their identity as Hindus has been repeatedly challenged and insulted. By razing of their temple many a times to partition; they have swallowed too much of bitterness. This results in their retaliation at the slightest provocation. (Punjab is another state. They did what Pakistan did for its Hindus; has muslim population of 1.5% unlike rest of India). In such places, if a train carrying Hindu devotees get burnt, reaction will not be same as in other Indian states. One can agree, Modi did not handle the violence efficiently. But was he determined for ethnic cleansing? No sufficient proof to claim this (like in the case of Kashmir).

    2. Regarding VHP (and Bhajrang Dal) pamphlets praising Modi; some of them even praise Sardar Patel. One of them says; If Sardar Patel was alive there would have been no Muslim in India today. Does that mean, Sardar Patel was willing to kill every muslim in India? If Ram Autar praises Ambedkar, I don’t have to believe Ambedkar’s arguments are same as Ram Autar’s statements.

    3. If the culprits of Varanasi bombing are found to be Hindu, someone trys to explain it on the context of 2 year old Mumbai shooting; I would find that argument absurd. You bringing 10 year old happening for the justification looks even more absurd.

    3. Hindu’s demand for Ayodhya, Varanasi is not just to take an avenge on Aurangzeb or Babar, but because they are their sacred places. (If it was the revenge, one should have gone behind all the converted temples.)

    4. Rest of your arguments (There is always a reason for muslim’s outburst) goes with the same tune. The bombings are not the actions, only reactions. Rest of the world have to correct themselves first; not muslims.
    - I have heard them enough. I have already expressed, I am not willing to buy those thoughts.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    “As Shan pointed early, a Gujarati Hindu cannot think and act like rest of the Hindus in India. Their identity as Hindus has been repeatedly challenged and insulted. By razing of their temple many a times to partition; they have swallowed too much of bitterness.”

    Yes, like the rapist is not to be blamed, because the victim had far too many times seduced him, like the Nazis are not to be blamed, for the Jews were the main problem in Germany.

    Thanks Vinay for showing so openly your fascist views.

    Yes some Gujarati Hindu have a visceral hatred for the Muslim, but not because of any of the nonsense you just mentioned, because the same “hurt, insulted Gujarat” had produced the greatest champion of hindu-muslim unity- the Mahatma.

    The Gujarati hindu has been systematically poisend for years from the time that BJP came to power in Gujarat. Its not for no reason that the VHP calls Gujarat the labortary of the hindutva movement.

    But people like you will be written about in history in the same language that today the Nazis are written about.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Mahathma Gandhiji, although a product of Gujrat, spent his “formative” years in South Africa, where his political philosphy originated.

    Your theory does not hold a stand — if Gujrat hatred is formulate dby the BJP, what about other states it rules.. How come they are not the “laboratories”.. Obviously, assuming your theory is right, then the Gujrati mind is reday to be “laboratorized”, and that may be due to the facts Vinay articulated

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    I think you will find that Mahatma’s Political Philosophy was probably forged in three continents.

    Bobby,’s theory with regards to BJP using Gujarat as a Hinduatva laboratory holds very well and is acknowledged by most political observers.

    BJP, on behest of RSS, is trying its HARD HINDUATVA philosophy in Gujarat to see if it yields both Political and Electoral dividends. Once this is proven beyond any doubt, it has plans for its wider roll out in other states.

    This was pity obvious in the last Bihar elections where the national BJP party wanted to ship Modi into Bihar, but the Bihar local leaders did not want Modi.

    Furthermore, the last National Elections, fought on the Hinduatva Manifesto, did not yield the same dividends as it did in Gujarat. This some what dampened BJP’s confidence.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Ravi,

    Will agree with you on this. If BJP is only trying “hard hindutva philosophy” and does not involve a development plan, a corruption-free alternative, it has no future. Not just rest of India, it includes Gujarat as well. Modi is surviving in Gujarat not because of his Hindutva experiment, but because of the way his government functions.

    ram autar Reply:

    Your theory does not hold a stand — if Gujrat hatred is formulate dby the BJP, what about other states it rules mr singh brhmnst are everywhere aided by anti-india foreign intellegence agencies and their media.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Bobby,

    ” The rapist is not to be blamed, because the victim had far too many times seduced him, like the Nazis are not to be blamed, for the Jews were the main problem in Germany”.

    You guys are too good in putting words in others mouth. Did I ever say, these people are not to be blamed? (This is what I mentioned in my previous post; “One can have an argument whether Gurajat riots can be called as ethnic cleansing, but no Hindu can feel proud of whatever that happened”). As far as ethnic cleansing, only Indian state we have seen it in recent years in Kashmir.

    “The Gujarati hindu has been systematically poisend for years from BJP”

    Including Nagpur (RSS headquarters), Hindu-Muslim tensions will not cause a major riot in every state. It can’t burn Karnataka,Tamilnad like “Cauvery” does.
    Ahmedabad has witnessed more than 10 major Hindu-Muslim riots in its history; starting from 1714 Holi riots in Mughal period, including 1969 riots which had killed 2500 people. We can blame BJP administration for 2002 riots, but systematical poisoning of Hindu mind goes earlier than birth of Hindu organizations.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    it is a fact and a proven human trait that people suppress people on various grounds – all religions have done it, all races hav done it …even if the world was full of lillywhite people speaking the same language, peopel will find a way to be a oneupman, with some “differentiation”.

    Muslims killed Hindus of Gujrat for centuries – because Muslims had the King on their side. Now Hindus there feel the strength in numbers, voting power, etc and they are giving it back. The good thing is that an equilibrium has set in and they do not have the types of riots they used to have.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    I hear you anger.

    However, in the heat of the moment you did not even make an attempt to understand the point I was making.

    The point I was making was that it is best to interpret any individual incident of unwarranted violence within some context. In this case the context is mutual animosity between the TWO communities. I quoted the TWO paragraphs merely as illustrations of the kind of putrid atmosphere that is created by anti-muslim factions within India.

    It is therefore no surprise that some Muslims retaliate. In order to understand their retaliation one has to take in all the context.

    If you disagree with this, then that is your right, but then people will make their own judgement about your own motivation.

    I have read and re read your point about TIME-SCALES, once again I am sure that you did not read what I said. So I will let you read it again and perhaps then you will understand.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi

    You were disingenuous when you stated you abhor any type of violence and then you stooped so low and inserted those two paragraphs.

    Now it looks like that the first statement was an excerpt from a pamphlet or from a Pakistani hate site, and the second is from another pamphlet. Do you know how many hate pamphlets are distributed by how many groups in india every day? Your brothers also do that – in plenty – and they have so many shades of green – JIH, IUML, AIUML, NDF, SDPI, PDP, …. So pamphlet distribution is not limited to a party or an association or a group.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Hindu’s demand for Ayodhya, Varanasi is not just to take an avenge on Aurangzeb or Babar, but because they are their sacred places. (If it was the revenge, one should have gone behind all the converted temples

    ram was born atleast 5000 years ago.ayodhya has life of 2300.that too it was budhdhist place.hindu zoinist haas fabricated this lie to convert india into pakistan.holy people of ayodhya has kicked bjp vhp out of ayodhya.on 6th december they have demolished more than 19 shiv temples also.they are nobodys friends.for their personal gains, they are ever ready to destroy india through civil wars.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Ram Autar,

    I appreciate your logic, if you can derive equally rational statements about beliefs/faiths in other religions as well. There is no need for a Catholic to visit Vatican, no need of Hajj for a Muslim etc.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr vinay ,
    there is need for both.basic need is for respect of others mainly weak and poors.

    ram autar Reply:

    Muslims killed Hindus of Gujrat for centuries – because Muslims had the King on their side. Now Hindus there feel the strength in numbers, voting power, etc and they are giving it back

    hegde the above statement is lie.if muslims were killing hindus for centuries howcome ,they areonly 9%now.fact is muslims built gujrat.hindu bania was the main beneficiary of their effort.banias are meanest race of this continent.one hindi poet soordaas of cowbelt has written,
    BANIA APNE BAAP KO THAGAT NA LAVE BAR.AND
    JISKA BANIA YAAR USKE DUSHMAN KYA DARKAR.

    LIE IS FOOD WHILE HATRED IS DUTY.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    dear shan bhai,

    The common masses of India (85%) have no say in the governance of the country but they have nothing against China. It is the Brahminist rulers (15%) who have fought with every neighbour around India, headed by the super power China which has become the darling of all the have-nots of the world. But in contrast the rulers have made India the most hated country.

    During our recent visit to London and Paris (July 2010) and discussions with intellectuals familiar with this subject, particularly Brahminism, the curse of India, a new fear is being expressed.

    Many experts on the subject of Brahminism say the Brahmin is a good servant but bad master. If you are strong, the Brahmin will lick your boot. But if you are weak he will crush you and suck your blood. Yes. Indian history proves this.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Mr otter

    I, and I am sure many others in this blog, will appreciate if you stick to the subject under discussion or give specifc answer to a sattement. Your constant ranting about Brahminism, Hindu, Shiva, Baniya, Jew, Zionism, catholicism. etc does not do any good to anything; it only makes you a laughing stock like the Dude.

    The subject of this blog is Islamic Education in Schools. So, write about that; not about Brahminism or Zionism. Now if some body’s statement requires taking some thing from Jewish religion or Baniya for historical or contemporary comparison, be my guest.. But this nonsense you are constantly puking has to stop. It causes good commentators to stay out.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    hindu is in root of all problem.these zoinist have pushed muslims into poverty.education has been made so expensive,that it is out of their reach.so it is non-issue.

    [Reply]

  • syed

    Reg: Gujarat,

    I remember there used to be regular riots some 20 years back in Gujarat that used to go on for months. Fact is that no riot can go on for more than a day or less unless it is actively supported by the powers that be!

    The BJP’s success in hard hindutva has been successful in Gujarat because of its demographics. Muslims there comprise only 6-8 % of its population.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Syed

    Welcome back.

    You are right..

    20 yrs ago, it was congress ruling there..

    Also, many may not know that there is a very successful, vibrant ismaili community in Gujrat.

    Hope u have a good Mohurrum celeb

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    congress is a team of brhmns while bjp is their b-team.under indira rule riot continued for about year in moradabad.the whole trade is now captured by pakistan&south korea.idea of brhmnst is to destroy india but rule indians.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    last riot they too were mascared in large numbers.nobody punished so far.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan mian,india has nothing to show except kamasutra. Times of India, the reigning flagship of the big-mouthed Brahminical braggarts, itself has admitted we are good only at boasting without giving any proof.

    A Times staffer from Bangalore deputed to Shanghai (China), where the world’s biggest “World Expo 2010” is going on, says she was shocked to find that the Pakistan Pavilion had beaten India’s which was drawing no crowds. All that she found in the empty Indian stall was nothing but street food and handicrafts. (TOI June 23, 2010). What a shame.

    The Indian officials at the Expo, all upper castes, are not bothered about India’s shame. They have gone there to make maja at the govt. expense (RS. 41 crores).

    Media monopoly: The Shanghai World Expo-2010 is drawing peoples from all over the world and according Mrs. Hillary Clinton, the arch enemy of China who visited the Expo, she had never seen an exhibition like this in her life.

    The TOI reporter perhaps does not know that India in fact has nothing to show except its Kamasutra. But the Brahminical India puts on a big show worldwide by giving false report of “India shining”, “jumping” and all sorts of pomp and pageantry. When the Western media controlled by the Jews and the domestic media in the hands of the “Jews of India”, paints a rosy picture of India the world simply believes it. That is all the rulers want.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Syed, missing your rationality. I have interacted with lot of Gujus in Uk. Though mind you they are mostly from East africa , though you wouldn’t beleive it they have groupings based on the village of origin. I dont think the percentage of population is the full story. In UK hindu and muslim gujratis live separate lives though living in same locality. There is no social intermingling.These needs a academic study, I had suggested to Vir sanghvi to comment, as he is a Guju. Also as I have said before hindus regard muslims as an individual very very nice and honest and upright , THEY HAVE MASSIVE PROBLEM WITH MUSLIMS AS A GROUP(read religion). Also as Salman Tasser (product of carnal out of wedlock union between Tavleen Singh , the journalist and Pakistani currently governor of punjab Atis Tasser) when asked about india and pakistan , in pakistan , he said they have gone different ways. Same with islam and hinduism in India , both were c r a p, but hinduism did undergo radical change whereas islam got stuck to where it was in 1847.There have been people in muslim community who understand this , like Mohammad arif khan , Javed Akhtar but because of fear there has been no radical change. Though yesterday I came across in the web of a news from calcutta. This is about a group of muslim women (100%rural) who demand a civil contract instead of nikah and abrogate the barbaric system of talq and have formal civil divorce , with the right of women to divorce , incredibly many times these talaq was related to dowry demand(I thought this was prerogative of hindus, then these are hindus albeit pushed out of the fold). The bottom line is guys like you and me who have seen a fair bit of this world is aware INDIA DESPITE ALL THE PROCLAMATION IS MASSIVELY POOR.AND ALL THE EFFORTS NEEDS TO BE DIERCTED AT THAT.
    also how much do we discuss about the subhuman conditions of the TRIBALS IN ORISSA AND MP.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    shan – tremendous money, in fact a “boat load” of money is allocated for the upliftment of tribals (and minorities). Unfortunately only 10% gets to them, the rest is pocketed by IAS down. and IAS covers up foor IAS through peer review etc; even a minister cannot fire an IAS. Tribals will be better off if that money is given to an NGO

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @raju Kurien , that an IAS cannot be fired is a legacy of the colonial rule. The white masters made sure THEIR BOYS , remain beyond reproach , when confronting brown politician who were given some power in local govt. INDIA NEEDS TO DO AWAY WITH IAS . replace with professional managers with renewable contract like pvt companies , INDIA NEEDS A BONFIRE OF ALL COLONIAL RULES AND LAWS.

    shan Reply:

    sorry for salman tasser read Atees tasser, for atees tasser read salman tasser.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    HIS NAME IS AATISH (FIRE)TASEER.SON OF SALMAN TASEER AND TAVLEEN SINGH.

    ram autar Reply:

    mr shan,

    hindus can change more easily as they have no religious laws.usually their laws are based on immorality.they are flexible and change themselves according to their benefit.father of rabindranath
    was a persian poet.
    in hindus u get punya ,according to money ,u pay to idol.not what u do.in islam u will judged according to ur deeds.u people mrtgage ur minds to purohits/pundits or bhatt jees who arrange succes for u and if paid nicely ,also arrange a place in heaven.we have no such system.our deed decide our fate.

    regarding divorce,triple talaq is creation of indian muslims.in arab world u have to give talaq in writing
    3 times with interval of 3 months.this is barbaric.this came with conversion.
    among hindus women is burn alive with husband ,left in vrindavan if old,killed immediately if dowry is not proper.i never heard any such voilence and cruelity on women as in india.demand of ruler muslim is in accordance with sharia law.which i consider the best in the world.far better than christian laws.among hindus women is a commodity.in bengales men is commodity.

    ISLAM IS THE ONLY RELIGION IN WORLD WHICH PROVIDED WOMEN ,WITH RIGHT TO OWN PROPERTY,SHARE IN FATHER PROPETY ,RIGHT TO DIVORCE,KEEP HER FATHER NAME.

    india is only country where women are less than men because of their continous killing by hindus.
    sati pratha killed billions of women.women were gifted to pujaris,AS PER BHAGWAD GEETA THEIR KILLING IS NOT SIN.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @schizo autar, islam is the only religion where you can discard a women when sex had become montonous or she is reaching menopause by just uttering Talaq , three times , and then go for a thirteen year old.

    ram autar Reply:

    schizo autar, islam is the only religion where you can discard a women when sex had become montonous or she is reaching menopause by just uttering Talaq , three times , and then go for a thirteen year old.

    BIGOMY IS MORE RAMPANT AMONG HINDUS.

    montonous or she is reaching menopause by just uttering Talaq , three times , and then go for a thirteen year

    THIS IS PROPAGANDA.TALAQ CARRYS LOT OF CONDITIONS .AMONG HINDUS U CAN KILL IT IS NOT SIN.AMONG CHRISTIANS IF U ARE INCOMPATIBLE ,GO TO HELL.ISLAM ONLY ACCEPT THAT MARRIAGE IS CIVIL CONTRACT.CAN BE CANCELLED BY BOTH PARTIES.SHE CAN HAVE MEHER.

    DIVORCE HARDLY HAPPENS AT LATER STAGE.BECAUSE SONS ARE WITH MOTHER.I HAVE SEEN IN INDIA HINDU RICH PEOPLE AND EXCUTIVES RUN AWAY WITH THEIR SECRETARY AFTER 45.AS WOMEN HAS NO MORAL OR RELIGIOUS RIGHT.SIN CAN BE WASHED BY A DIP IN GANGA OR DONATING SOME JEWELLERY TO EVER HUNGRY IDOLS.
    ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS ARE MOST BALANCED AND BEST LAWS.

  • syed

    @Shan
    “There is no social intermingling between hindus and muslims in Gujarat”
    Thats an interesting point you have made and Vinod Mehta had analysed this some time back. As per him this was primarily because a majority of Gujarati hindus are the stricter variety of Jains which means that non veg is a very strict no no (so much so that most have dinner in the evening to preclude the offchance that any small insect might fall in their food). Hence due to this basic difference, interactions are practically ruled out. (This being said, muslims in Gujarat are many different animals with a fair bit of ismailis & bohras thrown in (who are a subsect of shias) so the picture is not so straight.)

    Contrast this with other regions where both communities largely eat meat and there is quite a lively social interaction between them.

    There are conscious efforts to wahabise Indian muslims by the saudis. The latest I hear is some “Charity organisation” active in Aligarh Muslim University. Now this org. is into giving scholarships to muslim students especially in the medical and engineering streams. The monthly stipend in a fair bit for a student (15000-20000 pm). However the rider is that the students must be regular in saying their namaaz, women must wear the hijab and disturbingly, not have any contact with persons of other religions. Break these rules and your stipend stops. A lot of students have availed of the scholarship as the money is good….

    more next time……

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    syed dont write some thing for which u are not sure.aligarh muslim ha 50%non muslims in all
    professional facaulty.i am against wahabism.may this was rss pamphlet.just to force their boys to do what they are doing.
    hate has no place in islam.hijab is traditional not religious.it has nothing to do with islam.hindus line up to go to saudia.their rules are very good.they are strict for public drinking.otherwise things are ok.
    this pamhlet is from rss.our religion asks us to tell others about islam.how we can do this if we will not mix.
    hate and backbiting is totally prohibited in islam.
    hate is the duty of brhmnst as they have no conversion.lie is the tool to catch innocents.

    this is definitely brhmnst propaganda.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Syed

    I have not heard about this “scholarship program”; however, similar, active “Wahabisation” programs have come out here in Kerala as a result of investigations into the chopping of the Christian professor’s hand by Wahabis.

    The State chief minister, Achuthanandan, not a BJP man, neither a practising Hindu, nor a Brahmin, not an upoward caste ,but a card carrying, lifelong communist, stated in a press conference “the documents siezed indicate a plan to make the state a majority Muslim/Wahabi state by 2040″..

    They have uncovered the existence of three “wahabi” Talibanistic courts that dole out punishmenst and killing orders. Money trail goes to Saudi Arabia. The rapid formatiion of PFI/SDPI all across India was funded by the Wahabi money. Investigations are continuing.

    Several prominent “progressive” (Muslim) religious scholars have been murdered in the last few years; starting with the murder of Chekannur Maulavi. Three months ago, a progressive cleric, Abdullah Musaliyar, was drowned in Kasargode. Threats have also been issued against the moderates in Muslim League (numerically still stronger and winner in elections).

    You would not have been able to find a burqua or hijab clad woman in kerala twenty years ago. Now you can see them everywhere; partly enforced by the Kerala Msulim wage earnerr husbands/brothers in Saudi Arabia .

    Let me tell you one thing – there is a high level of tension here that never was there before. Recent arrests of Wahabi Muslim youths for particpating in LeT tarining camps have made neighbours suspect neighbours. It is easy to get things out of hand; and that is what many Wahabi Muslim extremists are doing here.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Gopi Thomas , lets put it another way. WHY SUCH THING DOESN’T HAPPEN IN WEST BENGAL. I would invite all the bloggers , syed, bobby , ashish, raju kurien to give their opinion. BECAUSE HERE MAY LIE THE ANSWER to this perennial problem.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Syed, very very illuminating. In fact I tried to do some research , this is rationality , screaming and shouting doesn’t lead you anywhere in science(of which we both have total allegiance) , it is only through an objective approach totally bereft of emotion you can uncover the CAUSE of this disease, a bit like my medicine. So far what I found is gujrat is indeed different from rest of India,. They claim have to have descended from Suryavanshi kayasth or whatever AND THAT IS THE REASON BRAMHINS HAVE NO POWER , this means they coalesce as a unit which sees anything contrary to yheir beleif as alien /threatening A CLASSICAL, TRIBAL/HERD MENTALITY. I am sure there got to be a reason , just VHP/RSS whipping is a classical case of taking the easy option.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS ARE MOST BALANCED AND BEST LAWS.

    islamic laws and practices are most balanceone.
    in europe now women marry to rob husbands.in 2-3 marriages she becomes millionaire.at the btime of marriage ,woman can ask anything.

    [Reply]

  • syed

    @Ram Autar

    If I am not sure of something I would not write it.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    syed give me source of information.as it is absolutely unislamic to descriminate somebody on the basis of religion.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    SHAN is a paedophile.

    I know this is a bold statement, however I am alleging this in order to even the score with him and in a forlorn hope that S H A N will finally learn the lesson from this retort and desist from name calling and personal attacks.

    Yes folks S H A N without any provocation resorts to personal attacks against every one who challenges his home spun philosophy, almost all based on personal anecdotes. You may ask me to prove it, so included here is a small sample of his recent abuse thrown at me personally.

    He has for the last two months or so called me various names and made unsubstantiated assertions that I am a Pakistani Muslim, and an Internet ISI agent, a paedophile, etc. I have also responded in kind and given him enough chances to stop this kind of unwanted behaviour. However, he has continued, and recently has called me a paedophile, so this is

    ——————————————My Retort—————————————————————

    Imagine you have a compelling need to locate an Indian and all you know about him is that he lives in a mid sized town in Kent. Where would you go, most towns in UK do not have a Hindu Temple, so that soon became a redundant strategy.

    In UK Pubs are shuting at the rate of 6 a day and those that are still open, are not exactly very welcoming to “up their arse” type Hindus, as my quarry is a man pompous beyond belief, visting a pub proved to be unproductive. I am not the kind who accepts defeat easily. So a creative approach became necessary. Then as I was walking down Orpington High Street, at a distance, I saw bright lights and as I approached it, the air became heavy with the strong smell of Spices. My steps accelerated in anticipation and I knew where there is a Nando’s there is always the possibility of an Indian.

    With “mahatmacoat” in my hands, I waited patiently in the lobby, for a kind waitress to seat me. As luck would have it she offered me a table right opposite where a middle aged Bengali man and a litle girl were sitting. Almost immidiately I was intrigued by the posture this man had adopted in relation to the little girl. It did not look natural, it looked more like, how a boyfriend would position himself close to his girl friend. My curiosity arose and I sarted to evesdrop on their conversation.

    This is what I heard:

    SHAN: Beti mummy was crying, because she has been saying NO for many weeks and I had to hit her, to teach her a lesson.

    Beti: NO to what Babata

    SHAN: Beti, she was saying NO to some luvy duvy stuff

    Beti: Babata don’t hit ma, I will ask her to give u some luvy duvy

    SHAN: Beti Babata luvs u 2…”SHAN puts his hand on her knee”.

    Beti: “Thinking Babata was being affectionate, rests her head on his pigeon chest”

    SHAN: You can become my little ma, would u like that beti.

    Audience of one, me, could clearly see how SHAN’s hand started to creep towards his target. I knew, I had found my semi trained butcher.

    So SHAN sahib, you can run, but you can not hide.

    Once again desist from calling me and others names, we will give you good arguments, call us names, then be prepared for unsavoury retorts.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    For reasons why I wrote the above, please read on:

    1. November 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm ….@ravi circumcised, wife beater,

    2. November 8th, 2010 at 8:51 pm…@Ravi, are you sure about your birth certificate , not a forgery which turned Dera adam khan to dehra. and weall know where dera adam khan is.

    3. November 8th, 2010 at 8:18 pm…@jindal, I read the posting to you by ravi, I cannot help agreeing with him . A lady came to casualty , apparently beaten and black and blue , because as she was having a headache , she refused sex. but her husband , his name surprise surprise Ravi,

    4. November 9th, 2010 at 3:29 am…@Ravi, the NOT is missing because your foreskin is missing

    5. November 9, 2010 at 2:28 am…@Ashish and his homoerotic soul mate Ravi….

    6. November 9th, 2010 at 10:38 pm…@Binoy,well this ravi and haram autar may be the same person , or perhaps ISI at work .

    7. November 11th, 2010 at 12:42 am…like the Ravi pakistani, Ashish kamchor , faltu hindustani.

    8. November 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm…Classical response of a ISI man.

    9. November 12th, 2010 at 3:27 pm…@…..unless you are also a pakistani like Ravi.

    10. November 13th, 2010 at 3:31 pm…@Ravi is it really,

    11. November 7th, 2010 at 3:33 pm…@Ravi, the mole of a particular country ,

    12. November 5th, 2010 at 5:55 pm…@Ravi , the difference is between you and me , one rationalist , the other a closet jihadi, if not jihadi then definitely beleives islam is the greatest and innutable , or shall we say just THE beleiver.

    13. November 5th, 2010 at 6:12 pm…@Ravi (most definitely circumcised for religious reason)

    14. December 5th, 2010 at 12:04 am…@Ravi, you ignorant moron you reveal your birth religion that is a congregational religion and that is Islam.

    15. December 4th, 2010 at 11:52 pm…@ravi, the dole cheat from the council estates of toxeth

    16. December 5th, 2010 at 2:33 am…@ravi, the genital warts,

    17. November 29th, 2010 at 8:30 pm…@ravi, the internet ISI..

    18. November 30th, 2010 at 12:45 am…@Ravi , the purest beleiver in five pillars

    19. November 29th, 2010 at 1:30 am…@Ravi circumcised

    20. November 30th, 2010 at 5:38 pm…@Ravithe greatest admirer of hadith.,

    21. December 2nd, 2010 at 6:37 pm…@Ravi, the ISI agent

    22. December 5th, 2010 at 10:31 pm…@Kunal, it is time beneath the stairs , blindfolded pakistani ravi came out of the closet and declare himself a pakistani.

    23. December 6th, 2010 at 9:44 pm…@rajeev, wellcome back, i have been at my wits end to derobe this soft jehadi RAVI, now he has a soul mate in Ashish

    24. December 8th, 2010 at 9:12 pm…@Ravi Pakistani, from a rational humanist

    25. December 8th, 2010 at 11:18 pm…@Ravi pakistani from shan Hindustani

    26. December 8th, 2010 at 9:08 pm…@raju kurien, you didn’t ……….Similarly this circumcised ravi says I hate paedophiles yet his his room is stacked with child porn. He doesn’t like foul language yet describes the expletives with candour, this is taquiya in full swing.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, only a person WHO HAS PERSONALLY ENGAGED IN SUCH ACTS can describe such acts graphically AS YOU HAVE DONE , case closed (to borrow the phrase from rajeev).
    As for me I can only say I have no desire bar KNOWLEDGE and i have no possesion bar my intellect.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    I have seen dozens of fake liberals (read Islami fascists) in last 15 years..They all are same…full of propaganda using hindu names but when it comes to Islam, Saalon ki hawa nikal jaati hai..

    I am pretty sure that this Ravi is closet Jehadi.
    This guy should be snooped on by agencies.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    rajeev,

    except few bstrds of sangh parivar most of the indian are liberal and secular.only brhmnst are fascist liars and anti-national.

    ram autar Reply:

    full of propaganda using hindu names but when it comes to Islam, Saalon ki hawa nikal jaati hai..

    chutia too kya hava nikale ga ur founders were ghand00s.ur bhagwans were animal,&mother fkrs.

    rss is biggest centre of sodomy of india.everywhere brhmns are in scams and looting of indians.

    Ravi Reply:

    Self delusion

    I have provided proof. What have you provided beyond home spun philosophy.

    Case open and running. To coin a phrase

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr ravi,

    rajeev is mad and bstrd why u r reffering to him.in shakhas they identify themselve by smelling each
    others *** in pure classical hindu way.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Some hard data on gujarat riots.
    The 2002 Gujarat violence describes the Godhra train burning and resulting communal riots between Hindus and Muslims. On 27 February 2002 at Godhra City in the state of Gujarat, the Sabarmati Express train was forcibly stopped and attacked by a large Muslim mob.[1] As a result, 59 Hindu passengers — mostly women, children and seniors returning from the holy city of Ayodhya — were burned alive. The attack prompted retaliatory massacres against Muslims on a large scale, in which 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed. 223 more people were reported missing.[2][3] 523 places of worship were damaged: 298 dargahs, 205 mosques, 17 temples, and 3 churches. Muslim-owned businesses suffered the bulk of the damage. 61,000 Muslims and 10,000 Hindus fled their homes. Preventive arrests of 17,947 Hindus and 3,616 Muslims were made. In total 27,901 Hindus and 7,651 Muslims were arrested. Nearly 10,000 rounds of bullets were fired by the police, killing 93 Muslims and 77 Hindus.[4][5][6][7]

    The nature of the events remains politically controversial in India. Some commentators have characterized the massacres of Muslims as a genocide in which the state was complicit,[8] while some government sources have countered that the Muslim dead were victims of mere “riots” or “disturbances”.[

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    The 2002 Gujarat violence describes the Godhra train burning and resulting communal riots between Hindus and Muslims. On 27 February 2002 at Godhra City in the state of Gujarat

    THIS IS LIE RIOT WAS PREPLANNED.FROM 1969 RSS IS ORCHESTRATING SUCH RIOTS.WITH MORE OF ;LESS SAME INTENSITY.
    MOST IMPORTANT,NOBODY WAS PUNISHED OR CHARGSHEETED TILL SUPREME COURT INTERFERRED.
    BANERJEE COMMISSION REPORTED THAT FIRE WAS EITHER ACCIDENTAL OR STARTED FROM INSIDE.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mostly women, children and seniors returning from the holy city of Ayodhya

    SHAN BHAI ,THIS IS ALSO LIE PROPAGATED BY GOVERMENT CONTROLLED MEDIA.

    bogey was reserved from kanpur .all passengers are alive.goverment has yet to publish the list
    of dead.and those who got compensation.

    another important thing was behaviour of state.towards victim.state should be even to its subject.this
    was not there.this shows the of future of those in hindu india ,who dont follow the slavery of brhmns.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Nearly 10,000 rounds of bullets were fired by the police, killing 93 Muslims and 77 Hindus.[4][5][6][7]

    police was openly supporting the gang of murderers led by rss and vhp.hindus died by mistake.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    from 6 years goverment is spending peoples money on nanavati commision.till now they did not interviewed even MODI.this circus has only jokers.

    ASK GOVERMENT TO PUBLISH THE LIST OF THOSE WHO DIED.DOCTORS WERE KILLING SURVIVORS IN HOSPITALS.

    TRAIN WAS TOPPED BY CROWD OF WOMEN,WHEN A TEEN GIRL WAS ABDUCTED BY VHP GOONS ON GODHRA STATION.SHE WAS DAUGHTER OF OLD TEA SELLERS OF STATION.HELPING HER FATHER.

    they are expert in provocating of muslims and inciting hindus.

    these bstrds have created their own history ,which they teach to teenagers in shakhas and pioson the brain of indian.get recruits and then start killing of their opponents.bloody fascists.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    as per fir water and pumps to extinguish fire was brought by muslims of nearby areas.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Gujrat is a riot free stable progressive state. Therew ere many riots ona recurring basis , most of them started by muslims, the worst one (before the “post Godhra” )being in 1969. .

    It looks Gujrat will be trouble free for at last 20-30 years in future.

    May be we need 2002 type riots to eliminate future riots all over india.. This constant scratching ha sto stop.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    muslims are creator of wealth.they want peace.riots are started only after green signal from administration.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    May be we need 2002 type riots to eliminate future riots all over india.. This constant scratching ha sto stop.

    because american danda riots are replaced with bomb planting.till brhmnst remain on indian soil
    danger will remain.best way to send them to america ortheir country of origin.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    @Ravi,
    I am just bringing back an old discontinued thread. (My apologies to fellow bloggers; this is not relevant in current conversation). I needed to apologize to you for not yielding to your argument of Veerashaivas destroying Jain temples. The reasons for my faith were
    1>Jains are/were not a “victimized class” in region, in fact the famous temple here being administered by Jain-Brahmin collaboration.
    2> My presumption of Veerashaiva community (a class born out of a rationalist movement which denounced caste hierarchy, magical practices, astrology, temple building and advocating equal rights of women) would not have gone into intolerance and plundering. (though the deterioration of this revolution later into a caste is well acknowledged in Karnataka).
    3> Lack of clarity in Thapar’s approach in deriving her conclusion (saying “There are other stories, on both sides), instead of pinning down the exact reason and location (Andhra/Karnataka), which I had raised earlier.

    The temple you mention is actually this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooli It lies in Belgaum, north Karnataka (not a temple in Andhra as you quoted earlier, which mislead the argument. Thapar seems to have mentioned in her book. But Wendy, while picking parts of it, could have missed the full details. The architecture can’t give a clue as it only indicates the era in which they were constructed. But there are many other Jain temples of the same era, around the same area (inside fort). So, one can’t deny it could have been a Jain temple.

    About my assumptions, they were half right.
    Yes, Jains were not an oppressed class (they were a priest class similar to Brahmin) and at some part of the time, they in fact became an oppressing class. This lead to the retaliation of oppressed community (Veerashaivas). Veerashaiva movement was more rational than Periyar movement (it was not just anti-brahmin, it was actually an anti-caste movement holding Brahmin-Shudra marriage in 12th century). These things had upset the priest class (which included Jains), who tried to suppress the movement/community, which lead to retaliation. The conflict is shown one-sided by Thapar, creating the illusion of Brahminical atrocities against Jains (where as Lingayats/Veerashivas were actually anti Brahmin).

    Questions:
    1> Can it be considered as Hinduism suppressing other religion?
    Till recently both Jains and Veerashaivas have claimed themselves to be non Hindus. (Also Deccan sultanate were the rulers of this region in 13th century, when destruction said to have happened). Right wing historian, Sitaram Goel calls Veerashaivas as a community inspired by Muslims, attacking the temples. If we go by Jains are not Hindus, then Veerashaivas also will not be Hindus. Then it becomes non Hindus attacking non Hindu temples.
    In reality Hinduism is a bunch, where several faiths have been clubbed together. Origin and gods of both Jains and Veerashaivas have been native. We all know, claim for their minority status is not because they have ideologically opposed Hinduism, but it was for reservation. So, I will pitch both of them under Hinduism.
    So either the clash is between non-hindu versus non-hindu or between two communities in Hinduism. If we consider it was clash between two communities where Veerashaivas were oppressed class, then the question would be:

    2>Can an oppressed class retaliate in this way and can it be justified ?
    This brings to the long debate I had with Shan regarding Periyar. The difference here is, it has happened in the period when civil rights of the people were unknown.

    3>Today if Jains come and ask, can the temple be given?
    Have they asked? None of the temples have been mentioned or claimed by Jains. Jain’s main pilgrim spot in Karnataka has been Sravanabelagola, though there are lot of other Jain temples(/Bastis)present. The above temple (supposed to have been converted) is under ASI and most of the temples in this old village (Hindus as well as Jains) are in ruining condition. I suppose if anybody comes with a restoration plan, they would be certainly welcomed. But first, someone should show interest.

    (Lastly; You accused me of pontificating. If I thought I knew everything, I would not have tried to dig the information and come to apologize. To me, knowing unbiased facts about my region is more important. Whether it favors you or me is not my consideration).

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Vinay

    there are many functioning Jain temples in south canara.. Basadi, Kanchuri, Dharmasthala etc..In fact Dharmasthala is a Shiva temple and Jain temple administered by Jains.. People worship Theerthankara along with Huindu pantheons.

    it is time to ignore people like Romilla Thapar. She is the product of Hate india/love Muslim/ Marxist theology. I remeber one of her articles where she stated that the Muslim invaders did not raze Somnath temple 7 times, that it is a propaganda by the revisionist right wing historians; Muslims razed it only six times.. (as if six was an acceptable number or a number we better live with???)

    I see the Ravis always writing about Hindus destroying jain temples.. Last time I checked Jains were not complaining about that; only Pakistani Muslim websites complained about that

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde , i had long dismissed Romilla thapar , as very ordinary certainly with no intellectual merit , just a compiler of facts FROM WESTERN (read white) sources. I was staggered to find most if not all citations were anglosaxon historian. I am sure she doesn’t know a word of sanskrit.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy, A few words about somnath temple. after reading naipaul I came to know why there is so much hoo hah about somnath temple.In its time IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST WONDER OF THE WORLD. and i will tell you why.Apparently the idol of Lord Krishna was SUSPENDED FREE ON THE AIR ABOUT 7FT FROM THE GROUND WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT. Apparenly this feat is acheived by clever use of magnetic repulsion.you can imagine it must have knocked the balls of devotees , and thus must be mindbogglingly wealthy with gold (apparently the idol was pure gold) and diamonds.This is the main reason the MARAUDERS came back again and again.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The frucking Kashmir problem creator was against rebuilding Somnath because he felt it will offend Muslims…The frucking man was against Dr Rajendra Prasad inauguarating it also

    ram autar Reply:

    shan all brhmnst are against truth sayers.as truth is sour for u people.why hate her awnser with arguments.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN the crypto fascist.

    So to date, you have dismissed the following.

    1. Sanskrit speaking and a universally recognised Sanskrit Scholar, Wendy Doniger, whose only sin is that she is a White American, and you think Hindus have nothing to learn from White firangi scholars about Hinduism.

    2. Martha C Nussbaum, simply because she is American.

    3. Romila Thapar, because she has no original idea of her own, and just regurgitates Western, read White, view of Indian History.

    So once these, and other people who fall in this category, are taken into account, then the only people left whom you and others like you respect are the Right Wing Hindu Historians who are busy fictionalising Indian History.

    ram autar Reply:

    ayodhya was jainese place after budhhdists.jainese were physically liquidated as well.brhmnsm was challenged by lord buhddha then by lord mahaveer.budhdhist were killed and expelled ,jainese were liquidated.but now there are many jainese organizations which are asking for minority status for
    jainese.they became supporter of hindutva.if rat walks with elephant,he think himself elephant.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    “No more Somnath” should be the rallying cry of all Indians – Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs,Christians, Aethists, Budhists — No foreign takeover this ancestral land..

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    somnath was not destroyed but looted by mahmood of ghazvavi with the help of competingbrhmns.
    who guided him to correct places.this looted money provided employment to millions of indians,he made ghazni ,as the most beautiful beautiful city of world.with indian labour and engineers.

    now india require 10 ghazni,who can take money earned through fraud from these temples and invest in infrastructure and education.india has become intellectual desert.

    ram autar Reply:

    then abuse those who are bringing multi-nationals.mahmood of ghazni came for wealth they are also coming for wealth.brhmns brought ghazni ,again brhmns are bringing multinational.

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh.

    Totally agree with your sentiments

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Regarding Muslim destruction of places of worship – does anybody know whether all destruction of temples happened in the initial waves of invasion or did it continue to happen after the new Muslim Kings settled in? Were there instances where the Musim populace (not Kings) destroyed Hindu temples just because they could ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    What do you think Raju.

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay, very interesting and full of insights, no wonder these blogs are the ones i look forward to that rather than radia tape journos.Can you please tell me what is the implication of the word Shaiva in the word Veerashaiva, does it denote lord shiva.I am sure you are aware Mahavira the founder of jainism was born in Burdwan in west bengal.Incredible there are not much jain relics in west bengal ,some blogger may enlighten me, the one really majestic is near belgachia in north calcutta about two hundreed years old. Is it fair to say jainism is PROTO HINDUISM.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    jainism is PROTO HINDUISM.

    [Reply]

    shan jainism is nemesis of brhmnsm.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    Firstly, let me be the first one to appreciate the effort you have gone through in order to construct this post. Much appreciated. I do not mind if it is pitched against an earlier arguement I made. The fact it has so much substance in it then I am only too pleased to appreciate it.

    However, I am not sure if the logic that you have derived in this post functions.

    One could darw a logic, saying Sunni Muslims, do not recognise Ahemdi’s as Muslims, so when a Sunni Terrorist group, blows up an Ahemdi Mosque then that is an act of Muslim Violence against a non-Muslin group. I am sure you would agree that many outsiders may take this as a contrived logic. From where I stand, both Sunni and Ahemadi’s are Mulsim groups, one more conservative than the other. Therefore any such act of terrorism for me is Secterian Terrorism.

    However, what is more important is that when I made that point, it was made within a context. The context was that Muslim conquerers demolished Hindu Temples. No one disagrees with that, least of all me. My point was that such a trait is not restricted to Muslim conquerers, but to ANY conquerers. This included internal conquerers, where a King belonging to one Sect of Hinduism took over the teritory of a Hindu King belonging to a different Sect, and in doing so looted and destroyed Hindu Temples.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Hypothetical comparisons to equivocate/justify what Muslims did — “every invader does”… is the Muslim justification for their atrocities.

    One Hindu sect king invading another sect’s country, while he may have destroyed their cities, and may have taken gold and silver from the temples, would not have destroyed/raze dthe temples ; neither removed idols. Cholas did not do that to Pandyas. Shaivites did not do to vaishnavites. And the attacks were not to propagate Shaivism or vaishnanvism.

    Leftist Muslim loving Thapars must have stated Hindu kings destroyed temples to project what Muslim Militants (the forerunners of modern day jehadis) did is common to any invaders.

    Now, even if one or two kings may have done that; in scope and scale those can never meet what Gazani, Timurs, tuglaqs, Ghori, nadirshahs etc have done to this country.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    muslims made india muslim provided equal justice to every citizen of india.only brhmns plundered india.process which is continuing.peshwas looted shankaracharyas temples whenever in need of money.now brhmns are stealing costly materials from temples.before muslim there was no india .
    there were small states ,fighting against each other as per instructions of chankaya.ashok killed
    almost entire population of orrisa before converting to budhdhism and leaving this voilent apartheid cult.
    romilla thapar has spoken truth.something u people hate.for u people game is

    APNI DHAPLEE APNA RAAG

    HATE IS DUTY LIE IS STAPLE FOOD.IN HOLY SCRIPTURE lie is not sin.BUT NOW WORLD HAS CHANGED.

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Sadly you are displaying ignorance of your own history. That is your right to do so. I suggest that you refresh your memory of the at least the Chola’s dynasty.

  • ram autar

    SHAN HINDU ZOINISTS WERE THE TRUE PERPETUTORS OF 26/11. Congress general secretary Digvijay Singh on Saturday said that just two hours before Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008, chief of the Maharashtra ATS late Hemant Karkare called him to say that his life was “blighted by constant threats” from those opposed to his probe into the Malegaon related stories
    Antulay says Karkare death suspicious
    No conspiracy to eliminate Hemant Karkare: Chidambaram
    blast.

    Karkare was shot dead by the terrorists on November 26, during the security operations.

    The then Minorities Minister AR Antulay too had made a similar claim that the Maharashtra ATS chief could have been a victim of “terrorism or terrorism plus something.”

    Speaking to reporters on Saturday, Digvijay Singh said: “On November 26, 2008, at 7 pm, just about two hours before the attacks in Mumbai started, Hemant Karkare, the slain ATS chief rang me on my mobile and told me how his family and his life were blighted by constant threats from people annoyed by his investigations into the Malegaon blasts.”

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    REVISION OF OUR HISTORY.

    A Hindu Right Wing inspired re-interpretation of Indian history has been taking place for the last few decades. Rich influential NRIs, such as Rajiv Malhotra, head of the Infinity Foundation, are behind such assaults on our history. Such people not only provide funds but also the need and inspiration to present an almost fictionalised version of our historical facts.

    In US there are a large number of Hindus who want their country to look strong and victorious. These new immigrants are in search of self-respect, identity, and a positive image of their tradition to present to their children. They believe that callous American orientalist scholars, such as Wendy Doniger, Paul Courtright, and James Laine are publishing and teaching a false and derogatory version of their cherished traditions.

    They view any denigration of India’s history and religion as a denigration of them. To these folk historical accuracy is not nearly as important as a positive image – even a false one – is.

    Thanks to Marth C Nussbaum, Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics, Department of Philosophy, Law School, and Divinity School at the University of Chicago.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    India was denigrated by successive Muslim inavsions; not by any revisionists. The fact remains that Muslims wounded an age old civilization. The fact is that Muslims destroyed numerous temples. the fact is that Muslims converted many. The fact is that they brutalized and killed many.
    The fact is that they raped women in front of their parents and husbands and brothers.

    So, friend, the denigration was done by Muslims; not by any Malhotras.

    The western denigration of our history started with John Stuart Mills who said he can write Indias history in two months sitting in London.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    You have displayed – yet again – your irrational Islamophobia.

    So as a result of that statement of John Stuart Mills, you think all Western Historians are wrong.

    If you think that, then it speaks volumes about you and nothing about eminent Historians.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    well, many people (I bet a majority) today are Islamophobists (?) …. You know the reasons Why it rose from may be below 5% in the world to 60% plus ..

    I do not have any admiration for Wendy or Martha. Both jewish women basically have their jewish agenda.

    Martha’s article in LA Times three days after the carnage in Mumbai has been discussed here. Her mindset and bias was quite visible in that article.

    After reading the epic Mahabharatha, the only thing Wendy found interesting and devoting a chapter was the sexual escapades of Draupadi and Arjuna. And about Ramayana, her theory was Rama was worried whether he will become a sexual addict like Dasaratha; that bRama discarded SIta after he had enough sex..

    That much for their reserach and deep understanding

    Well, each writer has his own freedom to interpret. That nevessarily do not make them great.

    And do not forget that it was the Chicago School who were behind pushing bush for Iraq war, and also promoting your much derided “Islamofascism /Islamophobia”. The neoconservativism started there under Strauss .

    Ravi Reply:

    :) , :) , :) , :) , :)

    When you don’t like the message, you attack the messenger.

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy says Wendy Doniger and Martha C Nussbaum (Both eminent professors) have a Jewish Agenda. For that reason he dismisses them.

    Lets take Wendy Doniger’s writings:

    1. Siva, the Erotic Ascetic

    2. The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology

    3. Dreams, Illusion, and Other Realities

    4. Splitting the Difference: Gender and Myth in Ancient Greece and India.

    5. Translation of The Rig Veda

    6. Translation of The Laws of Manu

    7. Translation of Kamasutra.

    So Binoy would like you all to believe that she wrote all of this in pursuit of some Jewish Agenda. What that Agenda is and how is it related to Hinduism, is something Binoy is too shy to share it with us.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    So, Harold robins and Sydney Sheldon have written tons of novels.. Does that make them Shakespeare or Hugo?

    ram autar Reply:

    Muslims wounded an age old civilization

    EX`EPT ENSLAVING WHAT WAS OTHER ACHIEVEMENT OF THAT CIVILIZATION.PLS TELL I WANT TO KNOW.AS WELL..

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Guys, lets give nussbaum , doniger and that cretin ravi, as good as we get. This is abrahamic religion source code of islam.
    the Book of Genesis, Onan (Hebrew: אוֹנָן, Modern Onan Tiberian ʼÔnān ; “Strong”) was the second son of Judah.[1]

    According to the text, after God had killed Onan’s older brother Er, Judah told Onan to have sexual intercourse with and impregnate Tamar, the widow of Er, so that the child or children could be declared to be Er’s heir(s).[1] Onan had sex with Tamar, but performed coitus interruptus each time, spilling his “seed” (semen) on the ground, so that there would not be any offspring which he could not claim as his own.[2] The passage states that this displeased God, who killed Onan as punishment for disobedience.[3]

    According to some biblical scholars who contextually read this passage, the description of Onan is an eponymous aetiological story concerning fluctuations in the constituency of the tribe of Judah, with the death of Onan reflecting the dying out of a clan;[4][5] Er and Onan are hence viewed as each being representative of a clan, with Onan possibly representing an Edomite clan named Onam,[5] mentioned by an Edomite genealogy in Genesis.[6] Some speculate that Onan and Tamar engaged in frottage or in anal sex. Also, he suggests that God’s anger was directed not at the sexual act, but at Onan’s disobedience by refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The only thing that I can say with certainty is that the world will go on, may be even at a faster rate of peaceful growth, if there were no Muslims in the world. Nobody will miss anything — for they do not do any discoveries or scientific inventions, they do not create literary works read all over (or even among themselves), no movie, theater, whatever..Of course world will miss the jehadists.

    Now Ram may say that iworld would not be affected if Indians are made to disappear. Not so– India ahs become the backoffice (and front office)m of teh world, so it will have an impact. Companies like GE, IBM, Microsoft, honeywell etc will be impacted because of the huge reserach facilities. Abbot LAbs will eb affected because they moved a lot to Parimal. So the world will be impacted if Indians disappear. However the world will not be impacted an iota if all Muslims (I mean from OIC countries, I do not include Indian Msulims disappear one day. And that is aterrible thing….that a whole 1 billion people can disaapear (let us say to a new jehdist land or a new planet) and nobody will miss anything! A thought that just hit me on a cold Saturday afternoon..

    Just think about… Will the world miss if Palistan disappears? . Ymen? Dubai? Saudi Arabia (somebody else is running the oil companies anyway)? Egypt? (Pyramids will stay only people will be transported to virgin land). Sudan? Somalia? Iran? (monumnents will stay)

    Somebody enlighten me if theer will be a material impact…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Just saw the news , a suicide bomber blows himself in stockholm. this is what you get for providing reguge to economic migrants from tyrannicalmuslim countries. sweden is the greatest country on earth,and I say this after detailed study if that country and comparing with the rest. There was no slum in sweden ,no deprived areas , now there is thanks to these dole dependendent economic migrants. how a pure crystalline water is contaminated by sewage from totalitarian states.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    @Shan

    Many Sunni Msulims are fervently motivated by the medieval, mirthless, death obsessed barbarism of their interpretation of the Book. They turn both Sweden and Pakistan killing fields; they do not see any difference between those countries; the only thing they see is that neither is the Arabia of 650.

    Recently I wrote about what is happening in Kerala.(Outlook magazine also had a write up) While not Sweden, compared to the rest of India, Muslims in Kerala are much better educated, much more wealthier . In fact. Muslims are the richest community after christians. in the state Muslim League has been in most of the non-communist ministries since 1956. There are no Msulim ghettoes, no sepaarte neighbourhoods, houses are intermingled, one Hindu next to a Christian next to a Muslim. But there has been a wave of arrests of people, young rich Muslim boys who went to Pak for LeT tarining.. Madani and his wife are being tried for sending kids for training to pak along with other charges. Taliban courts operate in the state (revealed from the investigation of the “hand chopping” incident related to the Muslim group PFI chopping off a christian professor’s hand..and the usual fodder, “Sangh Parivar/BJP” is practically non-existent in the state, never winning an assembly seat, never winning a chairmanship of a panchayat or municipality (there are 22 Muslim League MLAs, 70 panchayats are under Muslim League, and 6 municipal corporations)..

    So, be it Sweden or in Kerala or in UP (where secularists have all the fodders they want – poverty, illiteracy, ghetto…..) the attraction these nihilists have for jehadism is just that — cannoy be ratioanlized or explained. Dont believe when secularists say it is because of not having opportunities, or excliusion or anything like that… because Kerala Muslims are not victims of any of that..Not only that, ever since the formation of the state, they were part at the top levels of ministries; they got the first Muslim district in India etce ..

    And coming to the main subject of this blog; I am at a loss, how teaching Islam in schools will prevcent these jehadists from exploding….teaching more will create more jehadis!

    shan Reply:

    @Gopi Thomas,teaching willnot help but giving the right to question each and every facet of that book will definitely help. Though going by the stand of this spineless Con govt and the bengal Com(Quom) Govt , no chance in near future that ever happening. There is zia ,mj akbar and sahabuddin and owaisi to rock the boat.

    ram autar Reply:

    gopi hand chopping was a naturalact.christin school endorsed this by suspending him from school.
    all ur other points are bundle of lies.india dont have any jehadis.but continous voilence on muslims
    in the name terrorism may create some.for whichvoilent hindu narrow minded mentality has to blamed.in spite of many attempts brhmnst are not able to capture power.communal riots and bomb planting.

    brhmnst are pushing all races of india .to poverty.that is why slum dwellers have become friends.
    expliotation is not limited to muslims only.

    kerala muslims and christian and even hindus are in better position ,as compare to other indians,because of remittance from gulf countries.

    all ur talk is imanigary.away from truth and ground reality.india has only brhmn terrorist who are harrasing indians ,from kashmir to kanya kumari.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    hegde,muslims are providing jobs to millions of hindus resulting in 50billions dollars remmitance wch u hate spewing zoinists spend on wars.instead of development.all it jobs u do in usa are repetitive.u work there as cheap labour ,but still better than bania controlled india.they can easily be replaced and are in process of replacement.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    dear shan,The micro-minority pro-zionist rulers of India, surrounded by enemies outside the country and hated inside by the overwhelming indigenous Moolnivasi Bahujans, have no other go but to commit mass suicide and follow their zionist cousins. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Together, the zionists and their more dangerous Brahminist cousins constitute a sadistic and dangerous Satanic cult.

    They are well-organised and well-funded. The entire banking industry and media are in their pocket. Both these weapons are used to subvert every institution. India has been pauperised and reduced into a beggar nation.

    Henry Makow warning: Unless we wrest control from these twin Satans, we are doomed. Fortunately we need not take much pain to finish them. Being suicide-prone, the two cousins are digging their own grave by triggering the World War-III in which every country in the world including America will join to push them into war and fry them alive.

    We must get ready with whatever weapons to defend ourselves and this Mother Earth they are killing.

    Henry Makow, a Canadian Jew and an expert on the problem, expects the zionists to start preparing for the World War III from this year (2010) itself. By 2012 we will get clear evidence of the end to our present civilisation right before our eyes. Get ready for the civil war.

    After the so-called “Holocaust lie” which the zionists manufactured to create Israel, the second biggest lie is the 9/11/2001 — the Israeli Mossad attack on WTC twin towers to launch the worst deadly wars on Muslims. They invent dangers to dupe and deceive innocents. And provoke wars.

    Both Zionism and Brahminism thrive and survive only on wars, blood, hatred and lies. The zionists invented “terror”, meaning Muslims. And the copycat Brahminists followed it.

    The Lie is mightier and deadlier than the Hydrogen Bomb. The Bomb merely devastates. The Lie steals our souls, says Henry Makow.

    Muslims not terrorists: If “terrorism” did not exist the racist Israel could not have been created. Brahminists repeated this terrorist lie and today India is full of “terrorism”. Every day new and newer terrorism is invented. The two evil forces killing the world are playing upon “terrorism” to destroy the society’s immune system.

    Muslims are not terrorists. They are victims of the Brahminical terrorism, the twin founders of the Satanic Cult.

    Both the zionists and Brahminists do not believe in god. But they sell god to us to deceive us and make money. They threaten us and bully us in the name of god. They believe not in god — but Satan.

    A Satanic Cult governs the world. This cult will die with the World War-III. i assure u shan

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    @Shan

    Pakistani Muslims have been doing ithere in the States for the last five years. An explosive here, an explosion there, a recruiting here…and when they are caught their answer is ‘we were on vacation in peshwar, Kabul,…. my foot.

    Fortunately, no Indian Muslim has been arrested so far (boat load o Pakistani, Yemenese, Somalians, Saudi, Egyptians..but no Bangla Deshis and Indian Muslims) . I hope and pray it continues like that. It also looks like Indian Muslims aspirations are different, they want to work for Infosys/Wipro/Tata, or start one; all good.

    Did you read Angela Markel’s statement yesterday – She said Pakistan is using terrorism and terrorists for political goals. What a frucking country (can we call it a country?)

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    before american came ,there was no terrorist in this. area.angela markel should know that ,terrorism is result of oversupply of arms to this area,unemployment and destruction of infrastructure of their countries.somalia is example.
    muslims all over history are known for hospitality generosity and bravery.we are showing this again and again to worlds.
    root cause of terrorism is coming from west.
    hindu zoinists are trying their level best to provide recruit to muslim terrorist.by killing youths blaming them as terrorist.last 60 days 100 kashmiri were murdered to achieve this aim.last year one police inspector sharma killed 3 muslim boy in delhi for the same purpose.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    @Ravi,
    I would appreciate Wendy for making an effort to understand what is written in Vedas, when 99% of Indians have stayed away from it. But honestly if I want to study Vedas, I would prefer an Indian version over a phirangi one. Take the pamphlets distributed in Gujarat (which you provided) as an example. A conservative Indian mind refuses to read explicit sexual stuff. If such pamphlets had really been distributed people would not have filled with pride instead with disgust. RSS pamphlets normally uses phrases like “The supta Pourush in Hindus is jaagrit now”, which actually implies the valor (bravery) which was sleeping inside Hindus is awakened now. If it is translated as ‘erection of penis’, how good is the translation?

    It happens in various occasions in Wendy’s. When she says Rama(/Lakshmana) called Dasharatha a sex addict, she says he used the word Kamatma. For us, this could mean attachment towards worldly things.

    Jain-Veerashaiva as Sectarian violence: I would call Shia-Sunni violence as sectarian violence (both are equally strong group). What should we call if the oppressed Ahmadiyas once retaliate and damage Sunni worship place? Is the struggle religious or social?

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    vinay hindu holy scripture is copied from torah. which is full of pornography and use of vulgar world.ramcharis manas is copy of valmiki ramanaya.valmiki was dalit hence nobody keeps ramanaya.tulsi das anti-women manual can be found everywhere.all their books are translation of books from pharoha or judaism.like most of hit hindi songs have their origin in pakistan.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ”, which actually implies the valor (bravery) which was sleeping inside Hindus is awakened now

    gussa bahut cxlever hota hai it comes only on weak.during moghul times violence was against dalit.
    now muslims are included.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    Re : Brahminism and Jainism

    @Ram Avatar,
    ” Jainism is nemesis of brahminism”
    Jainism and Brahminism both are historically closer and have borrowed practices from each other. Brahmins are said to have taken up vegetarianism because of Jain influence. Historically conversions to each others community were possible. Founder of Veerashaiva Dharma was actually a Brahmin married to a Jain woman. Vishnuvardhana was a Jain king, converted to be a Vaishnavite (a Brahmin) under the influence of Ramanuja, whereas his wife Shantala continuede to be a Jain. As far the present, both Brahmins and Jains (Marwaris) are forward communities and are the main supporters of conservative party like BJP. There is no proof to suggest a rift between the two communities.

    @Binoy,
    When I spoke about the famous temple which runs by Brahmin-Jain collaboration, I actually meant Dharmasthala. But my wonder is, when Veerashaivas retaliated, why did they spare Brahmins? My guess is, Brahmins worshiped the same gods which lower classes also prayed (unlike Jains); Brahmins were not the rulers (kings) then, whereas Jains were. It was a Jain king (Bijjala) who sheltered Basavanna initially but eventually asked Basava to leave his kingdom because of his revolutionary views.

    @Shan,
    You are right about the word Shaiva word in Veerashaiva (worshipers of Shiva). It is a monotheistic religion (like Sikhism), founded by Basavanna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basava#The_Great_Religious_Developments ). They are vegetarians and women in their community also wear the sacred thread (an equality sign). What probably Basava did not imagine is, his followers will end up
    with http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/05/stories/2010110561260300.htm and this
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/120767/India/the-rise-and-rise-of-b-s-yeddyurappa.html

    Is Jainism a proto Hinduism? :
    What is Hinduism? In Abrahamic religions, every offshoot has separate identity as a religion (Christianity, Islam). With Hinduism, every offshoot still comes under Hinduism. Whatever is of Indian origin (including prototype) becomes Hinduism here.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    Re : Brahminism and Jainism

    @Ram Avatar,
    ” Jainism is nemesis of brahminism”
    Jainism and Brahminism both are historically closer and have borrowed practices from each other. Brahmins are said to have taken up vegetarianism because of Jain influence. Historically conversions to each others community were possible. Founder of Veerashaiva Dharma was actually a Brahmin married to a Jain woman. Vishnuvardhana was a Jain king, converted to be a Vaishnavite (a Brahmin) under the influence of Ramanuja, whereas his wife Shantala continuede to be a Jain. As for the present, both Brahmins and Jains (Marwaris) are forward communities and are the main supporters of conservative party like BJP. There is no proof to suggest a rift between the two communities.

    @Binoy,
    When I spoke about the famous temple which runs by Brahmin-Jain collaboration, I actually meant Dharmasthala. But my wonder is, when Veerashaivas retaliated, why did they spare Brahmins? My guess is, Brahmins worshiped the same gods which lower classes also prayed (unlike Jains); Brahmins were not the rulers (kings) then, whereas Jains were. It was a Jain king (Bijjala) who sheltered Basavanna initially but eventually asked Basava to leave his kingdom because of his revolutionary views.

    @Shan,
    You are right about the word Shaiva word in Veerashaiva (worshipers of Shiva). It is a monotheistic religion (like Sikhism), founded by Basavanna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basava#The_Great_Religious_Developments ). They are vegetarians and women in their community also wear the sacred thread (an equality sign). What probably Basava did not imagine is, his followers will end up killing Dalits for entering a temple (type Badanwal in google) or support a corrupt chief minister because he belongs to their caste.

    Is Jainism a proto Hinduism? :
    What is Hinduism? In Abrahamic religions, every offshoot has separate identity as a religion (Christianity, Islam). With Hinduism, every offshoot still comes under Hinduism. Whatever is of Indian origin (including prototype) becomes Hinduism here.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    word hindu came from middle east.brhmnsm is camaflouged as hinduism.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Brahminism and Jainism

    jains were in india before arrival of aryan.brhmnsm is only faith which says man is born unequal.
    lord mahaveer says ,all men and souls are born equal.
    rergarding vegetariasm,bhadrlok always change to ensure their survival.like sons on hindu mahasbha took to marxism to fight muslims.or slogan of non-violnce from from budhhdism.
    hindu is samaj while jainism is religion.now many of their leaders are asking for minority status for jains like sikhs.

    [Reply]

  • Gautam Gulati

    Under a stupid blashphemy law in Pakistan a docotor has been put behind the bar because
    he threw the visiting card of one of his patient whose name was Mohammad in dustbin. This
    patient of his complained to the police that the doctore has insulted Prophet Mohammad.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    same law is in britain for queen and jesus christ.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    That law has been repealed in 2008 in UK.and nobody has been charged in last hundreed years, in pakistan thirty people have been chargrd in tenty years.

    [Reply]

  • raj

    — Let the school-goers learn about Islam in a way that will help engagement, rather than disrupt it. Why not?
    for a change why not madrass teach – respect to other relegions. Why not mosque tells followers to respect other relegions & tolerence. how long should others learn about islam. its time for muslims to learn about other & integrate in society.

    [Reply]

  • geriatrix

    A sane society is one which allows atheists to exist and to question the assumptions of organized
    religions

    [Reply]

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    Is school the right place to know Islam? : They Call Me Muslim…