Is the West turning its back on ‘multi-kulti’?



In October, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, joined a growing debate on immigration. Multiculturalism had “utterly failed”, she said.

To balance this somewhat racist statement, she admitted that Islam “is part of Germany”.

Horst Seehofer, chief of the Christian Social Union, the Bavarian sister party that supports Merkerl’s ruling Christian Democratic Union (CDU), said Germany needed no Muslims from Turkey or the Arab world.

In Netherlands, the recently elected minority government survives on support from a Muslim-baiting populist.

In Tennessee, US, residents in September moved a court to block construction of a mosque, arguing that if it came up, the place would be at risk of “terrorism”, “sexual abuse of children”, “death edicts” and anti-Constitutionalism, etc. It is a different matter that mosques have existed for decades in America without infringing on its Constitution and there are two Muslim Congressmen, one of who took oath of office with his hand on the Quran.

Britain has announced its intent to limit the number of economic migrants from outside the European Union. The move stems from a Conservative poll promise to cut overall annual immigration.

All of the above, one way or the other, are instances of a West turning its back on Muslims and Islam. Some of these measures and behaviour go against reason and even human rights.

Half of Britain’s immigrants are Britons who stayed abroad or Europeans from EU countries, who enjoy unrestricted movement across member states.

According to Eurostat agency, if one looks at the distribution of non-EU foreigners by continent of origin, the “largest proportion of them are citizens of a European country (37%, corresponding to 7.2 million people), of whom more than half are citizens either of Turkey, or of Albania or of Ukraine”.

Africa accounts for the second biggest group (25%), followed by Asia (20%), America (17%) and Oceania (1%).

European governments have no effective control over people leaving but want curbs on people arriving. This will disrupt the natural balance of economic migrations, i.e. both immigration (inbound) and emigration (outbound).

Eurostat data show that during 2008 about 3.8 million people immigrated into one of the EU member states. In 2008, the total recorded emigration was 2.3 million people.

Europe no longer allows unskilled migrants. So, the cap hurts only skilled and highly skilled categories of immigrations, such as IT professionals, doctors and service staff.

On the other hand, American and European job-seekers are fanning out across countries, especially the Middle-east. Most European car-makers that operate in India have non-Indian CEOs, for example.

Europe is railing against Muslim immigrants when it needs them still. Germany’s shortage of skilled labour in 2009 cost its economy $12 billion. On the other hand, migrants in that country fare poorly on socio-economic indicators.

Migrants eating into natives’ share may be a valid concern. But that calls for enhancing employability of natives, not stifling immigrants who possess skills. Yet, the statistics can be baffling at times. In 2008, more migrants (16.4%) were without jobs than locals (7.5%) in Germany

A majority of Germans may feel threatened by Muslim immigrants and “fear Islam”. However, history needs to retold. The fall of the Wall in Berlin fused two Germanys – one richer and the other poorer – into one. Berlin went bankrupt.

Faced with a sliding GDP and severely lacking skilled workforce, Germany launched a liberal immigration policy, which attracted immigration. If Muslims filled a gap in your economy when you needed them to, you cannot kick them out now. People stay on, strike roots and spread. That’s how immigration goes. Germany cannot conveniently switch between Leitkultur (being German) and being multikulturell. It should rather stick to the latter.

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  • Binoy Hegde

    There is a wide spread fear of Muslims all across west.- US is ebcoming an increasingly anti-Muslim country. In the last election, Tea Party, an extremist offshoot of Republican party, was able to win lot of seats and the House is now under “extremist” republicans – One of their planks was terrorism and Muslims and Muslim pollution of America..

    While one can debate about the “fairnesss” of these- the fact remains everything as “hunky dory” 10 years ago. The radical Muslim attacks all over Europe, NY WTC, the excluvism and lack of integration, the insistence on burqua etc , all have resulted in this backlash. The daily news of bombings and attempted bombings have made people to be afraid – not necessarily hate – of Muslims. Couple with that the status of women, primitive sharia practices etc

    Angela Markel is not at fault. Muslims are at fault. Abstain from killings for one year..Let there be no news about bombings..People will accept then. Budhists, Hindus, etc are not feared in any of these countries. In fact they have coopted many of Budhist and Hindu stuff like meditation and yoga.

    Europe and US remain multicultural; they are afraid of Muslims because what Muslims are doing in those countries – sleeper cells, pakistani terror training etc. Unfortunately there is not much following for “all Muslims are not terrorists” argument, there is a lot of following for “all terrorists are Muslims”. Perception is reality; and people like Zia does not do anything to change that perception. Why should the host country go out of its way to change the percption? It is upto Muslims.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr binoy ther are afraid of muslims because they are 30%in all major european city.danger of attack will remain till nato and american troops will remain in afghanistan and iraq.they are unwelcomed.they should leave.
    half the population of NORTH KOREA was in american bombing.regarding burqa.when they can wear miniskirt in india why our women cannot wear burqa.
    western countries are in deep economic trouble,they need muslim countries more than we need them.
    euope muslims are workong as cheap labour like hindus and budhdhist .from muslim countries they really make money.now uae has given huge contract to irish firms to boost their economy.wht french are doing with gypsies.everybody is seeing.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    If Muslims will let Christians, Hindus built their churches and temples in Makkah, it will show that muslims are tolerant of other religions.

    until then, islam only wants equal rights and religious freedom only when it suits them.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    muslims ruled india for 1000yrs and best temples were built during their reign.if vatican allow mosque.muslims will church.there is no hindu population there.

    Sam Reply:

    muslims did not “rule” india.
    at best they looted parts of india for about 400 years, just like british looted for about 200 years.
    british were kicked out and we all know what happens to looters in the end..

    vatican is the church in just less than 100 acres.
    Makkah/madinah are big cities,..

    your statement should be if vatican allows mosque, then we allow temple with the compound of kaabah.
    there are so many hindus suffering in saudi, working as cheap labour due to muslim exploitation and the past looting of india by muslims..

    abhi Reply:

    “Our women?”. How is a muslim girl in Germany your woman? This is where the root of “fear of muslims” lies.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Abhi

    Perhaps you can elaborate as to why is it that you find it difficult to understand the affinity one Muslim feels towards other Muslims. Is that not true of Hindus, do Yadavs not feel collectively insulted when a Yadav woman is raped or any other form of insult thrust upon them. Were the Gujrat Riots not a collective Hindu retaliation to a perceived atrocity committed by Muslims?

    The issue is each one of us has several layers of identity, National, Religious, Caste, Regional, etc. I think what you are observing here is that some (not all) Muslims give their Religious Identity a greater priority than to their National identity. I know this cause problems, but such is life, that is reality and we have to manage accordingly.

    Why were innocent Sikhs killed when Indira Gandhi was murdered by her Sikh bodyguards. Indeed, why did Sikhs body guards kill Indira Gandhi at all.

    Once you answer those questions satisfactorily, you would understand why a Muslim in Indonesia may feel empathy towards a German Muslim woman.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Feeling empathy is one thing.. Exploding with bombs is another thing.. that too traveling to foreign lands and exploding…

    “(some) Muslims give their religious identity a greater priority than national identity..We have to manage accordingly” – You have some audacity! They should be asked to leave the country or put in jail.

    No wonder Western countries finally understood about these Muslims..no love for the country, breeding in plenty, receiving welfare from the country–hypocrites

    Ravi Reply:

    They should be put in Jail, you mean just like the rioters in Gujarat. When will that happen Binoy.

    If there is any one who is audacious here it is you with your perpetual scare mongering and not once raising above incidents and looking at concepts, but then you are SHAN’s arse licking chela.

    If the Americans bring the war to your door step, you take the war back to their door-step. To me this perfectly understandable.

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    Whenever and wherever there is less supply and more demand, xenophobia raises its head. All countries adopt austerity measures and curb or curtail such expenditure which may not be essential for them. 9/11 hastened the onset of a brewing world recession and along with it came in Islamophobia. If and when world economy would improve, all these threats and phobias would vanish from the psyche of Europeans / Americans. Some Hindus of India too hate Muslims out of sense of insecurity. Indian Muslims + Pakistani Muslims + Bangladeshi Muslims + Afghani Muslims – if all of them combine, where would that leave Indian Hindus? Thats their fear and therefore all this humbug and hate-campaigns in our country. Let us all work toward economic development and etter education for all as that would lead to a healthier mind devoid of all fears and phobias.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Well said mon ami

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ziauddin shafi, yours is oversimplistic , childish , makebeleive world the essence of which is DENIAL. If the world economy picks up ten fold will make no difference to the MEN IN CAVES , their barbarism will continue so will the pigheadedness (oops pig) of pakistanis. Americans told pakistanis “Get off your obsession with India ” Pakistani response “We cant”.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This coming from a fantasist is great comment.

    Some one for once says something sensible then he is labelled as cave dweller.

    As opposed to you who is a congenital simpleton. A Hindu Fundo moron.

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    Better to live in a make-believe world – for the real world is full of blood and hatred. Why, do you imagine, are hindi masala movies so popular every where in the world, even with the Pakistanis, and believe it or not, with the Arabs too? Escape and run away if you can – from this maddening hatred. Remember the ad – a man is frying dosa on the streets of Mumbai for the whole day, and in the evening rushes to a hindi movie for his relaxation & entertainment – or escaping from his daily rigmarole and pressure-cooked living conditions.
    Men-in-caves do not have a tv – and they are like bandhua-mazdoor – fight-to-eat soldiers trying to resist usurious and naked imperialism from capturing their natural resources (obtaining the same is very expensive right now, but with tech advances in the future it might become feasible). Otherwise they too would have been watching any hindi movie with their families munching popcorn, instead of breaking a dry roti once-a-day with green tea (w/o sugar or cream). They are the very same, or their children, who were trained / armed by the CIA to drive away the USSR – now they are fighting their mentor who is a rogue in South America, Mid-East, Africa and now South Asia.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Shan is right..that there is no correlation between ‘economic well being” and Islamic terrorism. All the nineteen 9/11 terrorists came from affluent families. May be they were indulging in the “escapism fun” Shafi mentions ..becaus ethey acnnot get “it” in Saudi Arabia?

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    Did you actually read what Ziauddin said. He is stating that in order to escape abject poverty poor people are joining the Taliban and Jihad, because that is the only job available to them.

    This is a fair enough point and it rings true.

    Jihadist form wealthier backgrounds may prevent a perfect co-rellation from developing between poverty and terrorism, but it does not destroy it entirely.

    So I am afraid you can not dismiss the point being made lightly.

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, the internet ISI, most BLACK NEGRO AFRICA , like malawi, congo, and sub saharan africa is BONE POOR, they dont send jihadis to kill others , BIHAR IS BONE POOR , so is some parts of hindu west bengal , they dont send jihadis to kill. It is a byproduct of a HATE PHILOSOPHY as espoused and CARESSED by the likes you , who are like Zia shafi COMPLETELY OBLIVIOS TO THE OBVIOUS.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    agree with Shan on this. There are dirt poor people all across the globe including in India. They do not go and explode themselves and kills scores. Something is rotten to the core of ISlam that some Muslims want to do this

    Ravi Reply:

    Guys

    I still think you are missing the point being made here.

    Let me illustrate it.

    Lets’ take Malawi as a country. Lets’ assume that there are a substantial number of dirt poor un-employed people there. Then lets take this a step further and assume that Al Qaida establishes a presence there and offers a mixture of religious (in this case Islamic, however any religion will do) clap trap and then offers them a job, to become a Jihadi soldier (for now lets not bring in suicide bombers) but just those who are trained to launch rockets generally in the direction of US soldiers. I will wage a bet that there would be no shortage of takers.

    In North West Pakistan and in Afghanistan the Taliban have recruited loads of people like that who have little or no understanding of what jihad means but for the sake of rozi roti have enrolled themselves in the ranks of Taliban. In fact it is US policy to wean these people off Taliban and bring them to their side.

    I think it is this that Ziauddin is trying to convey.

    This does not include radicalised educated youths whose motivation is bit more steeped into discredited ideology and or pure political hatred of the USA in particular and the west in general.

    – SHAN — this time I will ignore the personal comment you added. One more comment like that and I will be after you. That is a promise. Feel free to dish out, but remember, I am quite capable of returning the compliment with interest.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Vinay

    Makes sense.

    Sitting in US I see various aspects:

    1) Denial By Muslims — Last week there was a series of arrests of Somali Muslim Americans (including an Imam) for interstate trafficking of minor-age Muslim girls for prostitution- one girl was apparently “sold” to 6 men in one night. There is also a series of terrorism cases, being members of Al Shahab(?) and the most recent one, attempted bombing in Oregon. The standard answer from Muslims is “it cannot be Muslims; because Muslims will never do that.

    2) US Muslim Associations have been very critical about “profiling”, criticizing Americans for not “understanding islam” — as if it is the responsibility of Americans to understand Muslim/Islam.

    3) Neither 9/11 nor the series of terrorist attacks/arrests after that have brought the American Muslims to come to the forefront to denounce terrorism. The standard statements have been “they are not muslims”, “people do not understand Islam”, “islam is peaceful”. However, they are first to jump on “civil rights” if a Muslim man is arrested on suspicious circumstances.

    I know “good” Msulims are sidelined due to all these.. The tragedy is that it will be like that for a long time or forever unless remedial actions come from muslims themselves.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Binoy

    I do not think other Muslims are any different from American Muslims on these aspects.

    Indian Muslims, although a majority may not be like this, are afraid to come against “mainstream” (unfortunately the minority view has vbecome the mainstream); thius reinforcing these.

    After each explosion in Pakistan, we hear the common drumbeat “Muslims will not destroy Shia shrine;” Muslims will not killl Ahamadiyyas” “Muslims cannot kill Msulims, it is banned by Quran” ad infinetum.. Denial seems to be in the DNA

    Shoeb K Reply:

    The whole Western (and worldwide) view of Muslims/Islam is singularly and totally based on the worldwide Islamic terrorism. World view will change when terrorism stops.

    Muslims can complain that terrorism is committed by only a small minority. Nobody is going to heed to that. They can ask “but what about there, here, past, present etc’ Nobody cares for those questions because they do not live in that world.

    So, this whole debate will go on until there is a break from terrorism for a gestative period. Until then we can argue, we can ask what about this and that; but we are on loose foundation.

    Does anybody else think the Western attitude will change as long as the cloud of terrorism and acts of terrorism continue?

    Ravi Reply:

    Shoeb

    Would you like to consider the possibility that Islamic Terrorism will stop when USA gets out of the Middle East and leaves those countries to sort out their own issues.

    ram autar Reply:

    MR RAVI,Why India has no revolution: Foreign observers are wondering why the toiling millions, unable to bear the pain of exploitation, are not revolting. Yes. This is a good question Revolution will come only when the oppressed people become conscious of their exploitation and get angry. Here in India the people no doubt are in great pain. But they are not getting angry because they don’t know who is causing this pain. The Hindu rulers have so effectively mesmerised the suffering masses and convinced them that their suffering is because of their own destiny. This Hindu poison injected deep into their veins has convinced them that their suffering is their own making. They are made so unthinking that they can’t identify the enemy-oppressor even when he is standing right in front of him and siphoning off his blood — even as he falls dead in this painless (Hindu) operation

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Get a life, fellow!

    Bobby Reply:

    ladies and gentlemen,

    Fatwa- US style:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2-qzn1WmKE

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Using the term “fatwa’ are you implying US is totalitarean like Saudi Arabia or its practices are same as the totalitarean nihilistic Islamic religion.

    US is not like Deobandi School. Speculations are not facts. What deobandis and other Mullahs oredered are facts and not speculation.

    At this time there are only three on the US assassination list – OBL, Al zahiri, and Al Awalaki. Of these, Al Awlaki is a US citizen.

    Bobby Reply:

    My dear Binoy,

    US has assasinated SEVERAL leaders, including many from South american countries. This has nothing to do with OBL, Al -whatever.

    By the way the only reason the Saudi regime still exists is because of the strong support it recieves from the US.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar

    You do have a point. The role of Fete, and Destiny in controling people is a fascinating subject.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi , the purest beleiver in five pillars , your words “In North West Pakistan and in Afghanistan the Taliban have recruited loads of people like that who have little or no understanding of what jihad means but for the sake of rozi roti have enrolled themselves in the ranks of Taliban”
    UTTER BOLLOCKS, there is taxi driver in london who got asylum as an afgan refugee. he works in London for six months , collects all the money and then goes to afganistan to fight.This is not my figment of imagination , but from a reportage in the channel four news.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    I will deal with your input, because it givse me the greatest opportunity to debunk your type of ISLAMOPHOBIC flawed thinking.

    1. The personal attack – So here is the retaliation – You are a LUN GOAT WEARING SAFFRON FUNDO WHO ACTUALLY BELIVES THAT HINDUISM IS GOOD RELIGION. Well it is not. You are one sad deluded individual. My advice is desist from personal attacks or as I promised I will retaliate.

    2. So you think the US policy of weaning moderate (read paid for Taliban) back into civil fold is wrong because one Afghan Taxi Drivers sent money back home for Jihad.

    You are utterly mad and totally deluded for thinking that policy makers can make such policies based on single incidents.

    You are half trained butcher, who should give all up and take PHUKING SANYAS in some far off pahar.

    So stop attacking me, for I will be back and what I say will not be pleasant.

  • Vinay

    @Zia,

    No “normal human beings” suddenly start to hate one more human being/community without any reason. The reasons could be

    1>Brainwashing with ideologies etc
    2> Threat/Insecurity for their own existence(identity)/survival.

    The reaction in western world is due to the second. There is recession, unemployment, fear for tomorrow. They feel, people who migrate to their country, who work for much below standard wages are hitting their stomach. Is this feel of insecurity not natural? Why religious angle? If Obama fears about BPOs in India, should one imply he dislikes Hindus?

    Go to any metro cities in India, Bombay or Bangalore. Are original inhabitants happy (some might be tolerant, that does not prove they are happy) over the new influx of people and the new culture imposed on them? Shrinkage of people who speak native language, fading of native culture; If one feels insecured, why is it wrong?

    What I noticed in UK was, there have 3 different intolerances.

    1> Threat to their native culture : Starting from closing of traditional pubs to make way for Indian(/read Bangladeshi) restaurant TO a girl fighting for her right to wear Hijab in a school, they feel there is a threat to their nativity. For this, they point at Muslims.
    2> Threat of cheap labour : Being part of Europe, people from Poland and Latvia work for half or one third of the normal wage. They keep their family in their respective country. Local people can’t beat them at price and all low skill jobs are threatened. For this, they don’t blame Muslims. They blame Polish people and UK immigration policies.
    3>People eating tax payers money in the from of benefits : For this they curse their own people. Other communities do not have teenage girls with kids. Even if they are poor, they try to live with the meager amount than asking for benefits as they consider it equivalent to begging.

    In today’s world, mixing of culture is compulsory, when everyone goes in search of their bread. One can’t avoid taking someone else’s job in a competitive world. Least one can do is, respecting native culture/language instead of imposing his own on natives.

    Decades back, when Bangalore had many central government factories, it resulted in people from other states coming and settling in Bangalore. While Andhra and Kerala guys learnt the local language and became indistinguishable, many Tamil people refused to learn Kannada for decades and kept their identity. Local people never liked this nature. Now north Indian influx has made it compulsory for every Bangalorean to learn Hindi. During my short stay in UK when I had to visit a doctor’s clinic, I was surprised to see so many Urdu and Bangladeshi information booklets for patients. They are kept as many women in the community cannot understand the local language. I could understand the frustration of the local people as it was very similar to my home town.

    Nothing can win the heart of a native as the attempt to learn the local language (even if it is a broken sentence). It fares better than a legthly intellectual debate about “ones right of not learning the native language/culture”. This holds true whether it is Mumbai or London. Muslims in England could have learnt English rather than demanding for information in Urdu or Bengali. If you consider this intolerance as towards a religion, then it is only your take.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    This is one of the best contribution I have seen, well reasoned, very balanced and totally devoid of any emotional humbug.

    I agree with you.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay, if you want to know about UK , just ask me.There are schools in NEWHAM in east london where children speak in SEVENTY (yes you have read it correct) DIFFERENT MOTHER TONGUE.
    Despite zia’s breast beating , “THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT”has made a monkey of the immigration system.So far india is concerned ONLY TWO STATES PUNJAB AND GUJRAT is providing all the illegal immigrants to UK.But I have got to be honest, the immigration from south asia has brought also the practices of home country , like corruption. Also what immigration has done deflected the attention from realproblem ,and a country built on queen and country (read white tribalism), RACE CARD is played as a recurrent theme , though they make only 7-9% of total population.As regards the poles and rumanian and latvian ,UK cannot do a great deal so long it is part of EU.Attention should focus to USA , despite such a huge country has one of the most rigid immigration system.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    Did you get the point being made by this dim wit. If you did, then let the rest of us know what his point was.

    I have a feeling that this aging Bengali idiotic ISALAMOPHOBIC Doctor likes the sound of his own voice and spouts out unrealted facts. He likes to dominate this forum like it is his personal space.

    In the UK, English spoken by the Latvians/Poles/East Europeans etc. is not that much better than that spoken by Paindu Gujraties and or Punjabi’s. Comand of English is related to the general educational level of the individual rather that his/her religion and/or country of origin.

    But it is almost impossible to surivive in the UK with ZERO English, and every one makes more or less effort. Even those who practice Sharia Law privately from their own premises, etc. do speak English and come on various TV programmes defending their ways of living.

    Multiculturalism is not the same as assimilation.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    SHAN,rulers of Saudi Arabia — considered the holiest land for Muslims world-wide — had Jewish origin.
    The TOI, India’s premier Brahminical daily (June 13, 2010) published a report quoting the London Times that the Saudi rulers have agreed to help the zionist Israel to attack Islamic Iran which has emerged as the world’s most revolutionary Islamic country. Barring Saudi Arabia all the Muslim countries of the world are supporting Iran in its fight against zionism.
    World War-III: Saudi Arabia claims it is the custodian of everything that is Islamic just because Mecca and Madina are on its soil. But despite this claims and also being a Sunni country, it is not able to get support even from other Sunnis.
    The zionist Israel is fully supported by the Brahminical rulers of India. The Jews and the “Jews of India” have a stranglehold on the Obama administration. But will the US which is fast collapsing — have the courage to provoke a World War-III if Israel attacks Iran?
    Miracles of money-driven society: But the “Jews of India” are not bothered about the consequences of another World War or the defeat of US. Their primary interest is world domination. They are furious with the Western Christian rulers and also India’s over 85% indigenous Bahujan population who are coming in the way of their world domination.
    The “Jews of India” have already killed the “soul” of India. Only the body (or the skeleton) remains. They want to destroy even the residue.
    Before provoking the World War-III the Jews want to financially cripple the West. India is already crippled. To a great extent they have succeeded in bending the Christian rulers. The “money-driven society”, which the Jews launched, has taken hold of India with the help of the “Jews of India”.

  • ram autar

    thus spake periyar,

    Brahma’s sex with daughter, animals
    (3) As Brahma left the place after the marriage, he once again secreted the semen and dropped it on the ashes of a graveyard. Here also a Rakshasa named Pooricharavanan was born.
    (4) After this Brahma collected the bones in the burial ground and once again secreted the semen and dropped it on the heap of the bones. Instantly a brave and strong man called Salliyan was born.
    (5) As he left the graveyard small quantity of semen was secreted and it dropped on the ground. A bird came there and consumed the semen of Brahma. The bird became pregnant and gave birth to a man called Sakuni.
    (6) Then god Brahma went to a tank. He dropped a little of his semen there. A frog came and swallowed the semen of Brahma and the frog gave birth to a female child called Mandothari.
    (7) At last Brahma dropped the last remnants of his semen in a lotus flower in a tank. The lotus flower became pregnant and gave birth to a female child called Padma?
    (8) On seeing his daughter Padma, Brahma was very much moved. He looked at the beauty of his daughter. He wooed his daughter and wanted to have intercourse. How could a daughter give consent to one’s own father? Padma refused. Brahma did not give up his desire. He began to quote the Vedas to his daughter to make her realise that there is nothing wrong in enjoying with anyone, anytime, anywhere for the sake of giving birth to a child:
    Mathara Mupathya, susara mupaithe, Puthrartheetha

    Sagamarthi, Napathra loka, nasthee thath.

    Saravam paravo vindu ha, dasmath Puthrar tham

    Matharam suransathee Rahathee.

    This is the Sanskrit sloka Brahma quoted to his daughter. He explained to his daughter, that for the sake of a child one can enjoy with one’s own sister or daughter, as per the authority of the sacred Vedas composed by Brahmin scholar.
    (9) Brahma managed to convince his daughter with the help of the Veda and enjoyed her. Brahma’s semen entered the womb of his daughter. But somehow, for reasons not known he extracted his semen from the womb of his daughter, with the help of his own penis.
    (10) This behaviour of god Brahma and his lustful actions reached the king of Devas – Devendra. He deputed Thilothama, a dancing girl of devalokam to dance. She danced in all the four directions and up above in the sky. By this Brahma got five heads. He was much enamoured of the beauty of Thilothama. Brahma followed Thilothama for her love. God Eswara personally saw the madness of Brahma. So he cut away one of the heads of Brahma.
    (11) Then Brahma began to roam about in the forests. He happened to see a female bear in a bush. Brahma would not leave it. He went straight to the bush. The female bear yielded to Brahma. God Brahma enjoyed with the bear and a human being with the head of a bear was born. He is called Jambu Vandan, the son of Brahma.
    (12) Then Brahma met Urvasi, a prostitute. He was much moved for her beauty. He wooed her and made an agreement. Accordingly after enjoying her, he left the semen extracted from the womb of his daughter Padma and left in the womb of Urvasi. The child born was named Vasistan. After performing all these increditable acts, god Brahma transferred his powers to Vasistan and went away to perform penance.
    The origin and birth of munivars and rishis who created Vedas and sastras
    The birth of these Rishis is against the laws of nature, absurd and vulgar. I give few examples:
    Rishis Born to
    1. Kalaikottur Rishi Deer
    2. Kousik Kusam
    3. Jambukar Jackal
    4. Gouthamar Bull
    5. Valmiki Hunter
    6. Agasthiar Vessel
    7. Vyasar Fisher woman

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    “….Muslims are terrorists. Muslims get government largesse. They do not get educated….” these are getting etched in popular psyche, mainly as a result of Muslim action and inaction.

    An ex German minister and the central bank chief, Thilo Sarrazin , recetnly published a book ” Germany Does away With itself”. It was a super best seller, not only in Germany, but translated in all European languages . He articulates backed by numbers and statistics three main points:

    - Muslims in Germany are breeding too many children, and that by 2080 Germny will be a Muslim country
    - In itself it is ok: hoever , since intelligence is inherited and not nurtured, and since Muslims are less intelligent than Germans , the population will be dumbed downa nd Germany will become a third world country like Yemen or Pakitan
    - Bringing more Muslims will only make the situation worse. He says, after examining three indicators ‘-”success in education, success in employment and welfare dependency” he concluded that ISlam is by its nature a drag on individual success.
    “I came to a very astounding conclusion, and this si important ” Mr Sarrazin said ” Immigrants from non-Islmic countries show no statistical difference to the German people at all. On the other hand, immigrants from Muslim cfountries pose much greater problems. Their language skills, professional skills, and cademic skills are much below average. No other religion in Europe is so demanding and no other migaartory group dependent so much on social welfare state and is so much connected to criminality”

    Saraazin is a lifelong social democrat ( left/liberal party) and not a right wing cuckoo.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Base less Right Wing Scare Mongering, you are a part of all that you oppose.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    binoy bhai,dont bring muslims but dont go to muslim countries.they brought turks to fk their women when they lost most of their male population in first and second world war.(thanks to zoinists who ignited and financed the war).parliament passed resolution to allow 4 women to men.church stopped this.turks are sturdy handsome beef eaters.grass aters are nothing compare to them.see only 10 at taj obrio and cst made brhmncl army piss in their pants.
    these bankcrupt countries needs wealth from muslim countries.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Reply:

    Mr RAM OUT you are,

    So much of analysis, still you come with such a shit.

    whole of your above article (don’t know where did you take it from) proves that even the God’s (Hindu God’s) are prone to corruption and can be subject to punishment if need be, there being a superior authority almost always CONTRARY TO ANY OTHER GOD (READ ALLAH OR MOHAMMED) WHO ARE FREE TO GO ON A KILLING SPREE IN ORDER TO SPREAD THE RELIGION WHICH WAS CREATED BASICALLY OUT OF HATE FOR OTHER RELIGIONS.

    If you put in equivalent amount of time understanding what is written after cleansing your brain and body in local Ganga for you (read the filth-ridden gutter), you would really be one of the Rishis mentioned by you in your article, who were still great even when they were product of corruption unlike the people you are fighting for.

    Have a great day.

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    What is this to do with germany’s problem with Muslims

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Who is Zia to say “Germany should stick to multiculturalism”.. Ohhh–his colleague decided on indian economy and spectrum distribution, now he can decide on what other countries should do!

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    In a world where increasing big and faster aeroplanes are being launched and price of travel is decreasing in real terms, is’nt MULTI KULTI inevitable.

    Once you accept the inevitability of large metropolitan cities every where in the world being populated by people who practice different cultures, then what remains to be done is to ensure that this phenomenon is managed properly.

    Germany, was managing cultural impact of its Turkish population quite well, until the unification. That brought into play some unsavoury right-wing, neo Nazi’s who have created tensions. They vote. And Christian Democrats want their votes and want to give these East Germans jobs previously only done by the Turks.

    Situation with Algerians in France is not much different. There were hardly any issues, until National Front of Jean Marie Le Pen. The exception is the Roma population, which is Gypsies, vaguely related to Khana Badosh people from India.

    In short, any society can either make friends of their immigrant population or make enemies of them. The choice is ours

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi circumcised ,HOW ABOUT TELLING SAUDI TO TAKE SOME PALESTENIAN AND AFGHAN REFUGEES ,ALSO WHY A SUCCHA MUSLIM SHOULD LEAVE GREAT 100% MUSLIM COUNTRY, LIKE PAKISTAN , BANGLADESH ,SOMALIA etc AND DECIDE TO LIVE IN COUNTRIES WHO HAVE FREED THEIR WOMEN FOLKS , PORK IS THERE EVERY WHERE , WOMEN’S NUDITY IS FLASHED EVERY WHERE, WINE IS DRUNK LIKE WATER.cannot get any more haram place on earth .

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    I guess your very tight LUN GOAT is getting in a twist again.

    You Isalamophobe congential moron.

    Remember two can play this game.

    Good game, Good game as Bruce Forsyth says.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan bhai,
    why saudi arabia or anyother country should his land to palestanians.they know how to fight.villian is beaten at end.from afghanistan BORIA BISTARA BANDH RAHEIN HAIN,see the scenerio of paletine after 15 years.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    should GIVE his land

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN THE PHUKING IDIOT

    Here.

    An estimated 240,000 Palestinians are living in Saudi Arabia. They are not allowed to hold or even apply for Saudi citizenship, because of Arab League instructions barring the Arab states from granting them citizenship. Palestinians are the sole foreign group that cannot benefit from a 2004 law passed by Saudi Arabia’s Council of Ministers, which entitles expatriates of all nationalities who have resided in the kingdom for ten years to apply for citizenship with priority being given to holders of degrees in various scientific fields.[45] The Articles 12.4 and 14.1 of the Executive Regulation of Saudi Citizenship System can be interpreted as requiring applicants to be Muslim.[46]

    You know the least and you beat your drum the loudest.

    That is because short of hatered of Muslims, you are completely empty.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ravi lie is their staple food ,while hatred is their duty.

  • Shoeb K

    As a frequent traveler, I sense and “feel” frustrations of many. Attitudes and lives have changed since 9/11. Long airport check-in liines obviously point to Muslim culpability. Westerners, rightly or wrongly, blame Muslims for their sudden lack of freedoms, govt invasion into private records etc etc. Muslims have not helped themselves by not coming out strongly (like the western antiwar protests, or the agitation against G20 etc) agaiinst terrorism or a few hijacking Islam the wrong way.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Shoeb

    Absolutely agree, that moderate Muslims who do not share the same values as those held by Islamists, should come out in protest.

    There have been some attempts to marginalise these Islamists but they have been half hearted and totally ineffective.

    For me being anti Islamists is not the same as being anti Islam and/or Muslims.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    RAVI AND SHOEB BHAI,WE SHOULD NOT GIVE ANY EXPLANATION.zoinists perpetuated sept 11 to take the freedom of americans.it is their fight,they should fight.islamist party in pakistan could never take more than 7%votes in pakistan election while communal parties in india has the share of 28%.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Americans have only a brief attention span. 95% of them does not have a clue on what an Islamist is or how an Islamist is different from other Msulims. All are lumped into one (no Shia, Sunni there).

    The controversial commiunity center/mosque at WTc was spearheaded by a Sufi couple; however, Americans did not know that Sufis are pacifists and very much different from Wahabis.

    So the challenge falls on the feet of Muslims; commmunicating that the majority are not involved in terrorism etc etc.. Mere communication is not enough. An average American also must be convinced why some are motivated by Quran and Allah to commit these atrocities. And what Muslims are doing to eliminate this. (the muslim counter argument by muslim associations have always been, “Oh Americans do gang rapes, or Americans do serial killings” ; but Americans understand why some of their countrymen do this)

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    enough. An average American also must be convinced why some are motivated by Quran and Allah to

    they` are not motivated by quran.they want their land to be vacated by them.they use christianity to bully others.

    [Reply]

  • Jay

    To say that Multiculturalism has failed is not a racist statement. It is a description of a political and social situation. It might be that Multi-culturalism in Germany has failed for several different reasons. Germany has faced a large influx of Turks and a large percentage of them did not get there though legal channels and have failed to integrate. Is it wrong for a nation to expect people to speak its national language or respect the common culture?
    Its all very well to criticize open societies for not being multi-cultural but nobody says a word about the mono-cultural Islamic societies and the persecution of minorities there.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Muslims (a majority, if not all) do have a problem in adapting the country’s customs and festivals. We just now celebrated the Thanksgiving weekend, a quintessential American family celebration. In few weeks all – or most – will be celebrating Christmas. Both of these celebrations have become quite secular here — something like our harvest festivals- ; however, Muslims have steadfastedly kept away from these celebrations raising eyebrows, questions,
    and concerns.

    This non-participation, coupled with their insistence on Muslim holidays (like the age old Christmas holiday) in some of the school districts, have created an environment of suspicion and lack of trust. This grows into hate/fear when the news of terrorism plays out on television.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde , one doctor left for pakistan as to avoid her daughter forced to take part in easter celebration.and then there was this case of a pakistani teacher in birmingham shouting at pakistani kids performing nativity play , “Jesus christ is not your God”. in fact in some quarters it has assumed ludicrous proprortion.like student in University College london refusing to use a common prayer room as it is also used by NON BELEIVERS and they actually PERFORMED NAMAZ ON THE STREET ADJOINING THE COLLEGE BLOCKING ALL TRAFFIC.(this may be unique in UK , ask Bobby it happens all the time in Park Cicrus area of calcutta , particularly near the market.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    NAMAZ ON THE STREET ADJOINING THE COLLEGE BLOCKING ALL TRAFFIC.(this may be unique in UK , ask Bobby it happens all the time in Park Cicrus area of calcutta , particularly near the market.

    what is ur problem .u are remanant of british debauchery of india.

    S Singh Reply:

    It is interesting to read about adaptation, absorption etc.. Our respected ex president
    Dr Abdul Kalam was mocked by many Sunnis for his vegetarianism, his deep knowledge of Bhagavad Gita, his respect for his Hindu mathematics teacher who pushed him to learn science and mathematics etc. Many even said he is not a Muslim, because a true Muslim will not behave like this!

  • shan

    @Zia, again you show your true colour, a HYPOCRITE to the bone.HOW ABOUT REPEALING ARTICLE 360 IN KASHMIR, so that folks like me pork and beef eating holding indian passport would like to settle down in kashmir, in the process may meet a kashmir ki kali. It is also known as looking in the mirror.
    How about kashmir allowing a little multi culturalism. how about saudi allowing a hindu mandir built there to satisfy the religious needs of the millions of SLAVE LABOUR from kerala.
    As for the extreeme benelovolence shown by uk govt , it makes me feel so small having come from a country where exists likes of Thackeray et al.This for that twerp ravi kuttar , THERE ARE ADVOCATES IN HOSPITALS TO TRANSLATE DURING MEDICAL CONSULTATION , THERE IS A CALL CENTRE WHO WILL TRANSLATE MY(DOCTORS) QUESTIONS TO THE PATIENT AND VICE VERSA,
    Also why do muslims for thatmatter anybody need to immigrate , the answer is because their COUNTRY IS S H I T .
    also it would have helped if Zia mentioned about the gaddars of july the 16th bombing in london holding british passport.One scum demonstrated in london WITH A MOCK SUICIDE VEST. The same guy has recently been convicted trying to sell cocaine large scale. . And i have posted before that MI5 in following TWO THOUSAND(yes that’s true) PLOTS BEING HATCHED BY BROWN SKINNED BRITISH BORN BRITISH PASSPORT HOLDERS TO KILL BRITISH PEOPLE.The same gaddars shout abuse at the procession bringing fallen fellow british teenage soldiers from afganistan with placards , YOU GOT YOUR JUST DESERTS,, DOGS DESERVE TO DIE ETC. It is no surprise that the far right English Democrats party germinated from the town where this macabre protest was taking place , it is luton full of pakistani and bangladeshis. This is a country which provided a bangladeshi non english speaking women with a white man’s kidney as a transplant and then when she decides to go to bangladesh for a vacation for six months during winter , british tax payers money gives her supply of SIX MONTHS OF ANTI REJECTION DRUGS worth thousands of pounds , as she wont be able to get those in bangladesh.Wont be surprised if she sends subscription to islamic terorist in bangladesh. (in fact one guy was caught transferring charity money raised in UKfundinf islamic terrorist from bangladesh.
    Now from OBAMA’S WAR page 106.
    “Al Quaida is clearly plotting against targets in Western Europe and less clearly in North America.For Europe , al quaida is using PAKISTANIS WHO HAVE RELOCATED TO UNITED KINGDOM , NORWAY AND DENMARK and can pass through our screening defences.They are not young saudis or somalis BUT THE CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS WITH BRITISH FRENCH, BELGIAN PASSPORTS.
    Still three cheers for multiculturalism.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The same thing is happening in US. Shazad, the bomber of Manhattan, was a clean cut Pakistani american who married another Pakistanii american girl. The five who were arrested in Quetta were second generation Pakistani Americans.

    It is shame that these Pakistani Muslims are using their American passport to enjoy the freedom it offers to create mayhem and anarchy.

    The one who cut Daniel Pearl’s throat was a second generation Pakistani from Oxford.

    The only way people’s perception of Muslims will change is by Muslims not committing terrorist acts, and by Pakistan shutting down the Msulim Terrorist Training Centers.. There is no meaning in asking –”but what about this, or what about that , what about Chechnya, what about Kashmir”.. ,Unfortunately, moderate Muslims, instead of attacking the terrorists, have spent more energy and time on bringing and equating “this” terror to “that” war or injsutice to Palestinians etc.

    Muslims unfortunately find it difficult to live in a “globalized” village. However, they have globalized jehadism creating international “martyrs” (who will meet 72 virgins in afterlife) coopting local problems. May be they will be better off if they apply the techniques and methodologies of international jehadisms to adapting and surviving and achieving in a globalized world.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy,After the advent of the British rule, which succeeded the Tamil kings, the Brahmins permitted only the Criminal Acts to be changed on the lines of Western countries. For all civil matters, Hindu law based on Manu’s code alone was brought into force.
    Can there be a law like Manu’s law that provides a very favourable position only to one particular community? How could it be tolerated with the authority of our own law of the land? How can we permit the courts and judges to base their judgement on Manu’s code?
    Is there a country where the people of the land are termed as the sons of prostitutes? Is there a place where the toiling masses of the land are degraded by others of alien countries? Can you find a government, legislations or courts remaining a silent spectator to the injustice meted out to the majority of the population? Can you see anywhere people being so docile and negligent as here without trying to erase the disgrace? Nowhere else you can find selfish vested interests as you see in Tamil Nadu.
    It is for the Tamil society to think loftily. Our freedom and rights lie in the eradication of disgrace attached to our births. So I humbly appeal to you all to think over these monstrocities. You will feel perturbed and agitated at the ill treatment given to us by the Manu’s code.
    Leave the aged and elderly people. The future is in the hands of the younger generation. I have compiled this book with the hope that our youngsters atleast would come forward to think on right lines and act with wisdom

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    what the fruck r u talking about…Tamil NAdu has been run by Karunanidhi, the Dalit king, and his party for thirty five plus years

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ram Autar,
    you are simply cutting and pasting articles from Dalitvoice.org.
    I have 2 requests, one to you and the other to Dalitvoice.org administrator
    1. Please write something here which is your own thought, in your own words. Cutting and pasting from other websites without due credit is not acceptable behaviour on the internet.
    2. To the Dalitvoice.org admin: guys, your server is perpetually down- given the sort of “fun” stuff you post, it is understandable that it generates high traffic- so, you end up exceeding your server bandwidth quota. Why don’t you find some cheap hosters in US?

    ram autar Reply:

    The one who cut Daniel Pearl’s throat was a second generation Pakistani from Oxford.

    this jew was spy came to pakistan to kill them.ittni sympathy koin ha,tere chache ka mama hai.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    @Zia, again you show your true colour, a HYPOCRITE to the bone.HOW ABOUT REPEALING ARTICLE 360 IN KASHMIR, so that folks like me pork and beef eating holding indian passport would like to settle down in kashmir, in the process may meet a kashmir ki kali. It is also known as looking in the mirror.
    How about kashmir allowing a little multi culturalism. how about saudi allowing a hindu mandir built there to satisfy the religious needs of the millions of SLAVE LABOUR from kerala.

    kashmir ki kali ya bengali ki kalee.kashmir was and is multicultural till hindu zoinist ,shyama
    prasad mukherjee started communal politics there.end game came when jagmohan,a hindu
    tranported them to jammu to communalize kashmir politics.

    hindu mandirs are money bussines.they are absolute fraud.but keeps indian economy on wheels.brhmns make gods sell them but believe them.use these gods to fool and and bully the common man.
    hate is ur duty.what else i can say.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    hindu mandirs are money bussines.they are absolute fraud.but keeps indian economy on wheels.brhmns make gods sell them but dont believe them.they use these gods to fool and bully the common man.they worship satan.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    PLOTS BEING HATCHED BY BROWN SKINNED BRITISH BORN BRITISH PASSPORT HOLDERS TO KILL BRITISH PEOPLE

    these are deeds of brhmnst and zoinists not islamists.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    So the gob shite has spoken and in doing so has painted the inside of his Lun Goat brown, with the warm and runny stuff.

    Yet another rant with little or nor substance in it. The lobotomised son of a vivisectioned chimp thinks that spouting of random facts automatically becomes a point. They rarely do and in his case they never do.

    However, I will try and guess some of his points and provide an answer.

    Kashmir – He mentions it simply because he thinks he can score a cheap point over Zia, all he does is broadcast his ignorance and prejudices. Kashmir – weather we like it or not – is a disputed area. The main character of this dispute is Hindu/Muslim. Until the partition of India, Kashmir was a Multi Kulti area. My own personal Brahmin was a Kashmiri Pandit. It is the fault of both the communities in that region to communalise their politics and the inevitable consequence of this is the deplorable fact of Ethnic Cleansing. I am all for the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the land of their ancestors. I am optimistic that one day they will.

    Liberal UK – Unlike the Saffron Fundo SHAN, UK is a liberal democratic country with such values that it does allow pluralism, and if it did not, it would have changed its basic human values. I am glad that it does not. For every Thackray in India, there is Nick Griffin and before him John Tyndal and even before him Sir Oswald Mosley in England. In other words there are reactionary elements in the UK and for that matter also in every other European country. So I am not sure what point was being made by this ill tempered dangerous quack.

    Language barriers – An inevitable undesirable consequence of Multi Kulti is that it can create temporary language barriers between Doctors and patients, Teachers and Pupils, and for that matter all other parts of service industries. However, dim witted SHAN would like you to believe that it is always the case of Doctor/Teacher knowing English and the Patient/Student not knowing English. This is an absolute fallacy. Most Doctors in UK are from overseas – from almost every part of the world – not all of these Doctors/Teachers have the required standard of spoken English. The situation is not as bad as it used to be but it is still life threateningly bad. Doctors/Teachers from Eastern Europe, Africa, the Middle East and far-east are the main culprits here.

    Not so long ago there used to be an advertisement on ITV, promoting Jaffa Cakes – a confectionary product – it showed an East European Teacher, holding a Jaffa Cake in her hand and saying, “Children full Moon” and then taking a bite out of the cake and holding it up again and saying “Half Moon”. Half was pronounced with L emphasised. It was a funny take on East European Primary School Teachers in leafy suburbs of deepest Surrey.

    In parts of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, languages other than English are spoken and Doctors there experience the same issues as the ones faced by them in Orpington, Newham and Whitechapel. English speaking Doctors in US have to have a translator present when treating Hispanics, a lot of who do not speak English.

    People migrate to escape poverty, paucity of opportunity, escaping persecution, etc. He should ask himself that question, why did he leave India. Is India shit? Once again this hypocrite SHAN disgorges a random list of facts without a nano-second of thought given to them. Consequence, he utterly fails to make a point. He rants.

    Brown skinned British Terrorists – It is true that there are some of those. However, Saffron Hindu Fundo SHAN fails to mention what is motivating and radicalising these misguided youth. War in Iraq, and Afghanistan are just two that one can mention from the top of ones head. By omitting to mention these causes he firmly puts himself in the reactionary twaddle camp.

    Far right English Groups – He should be careful what he says in their support. This group is hardly going to ask him the question, are you a radical Muslim – before they thrust a knife in his tummy. The right wing English parties do not like Multi Kulti at all, irrespective of it being the nasty Muslim kind or the gentle yogic flying guru kind and certainly not the tight Lun Goat kind to which he certainly belongs.

    OBAMA’S WAR page 106 – As a result of frontal lobe lobotomy – performed by a Pakistani trained NHS Surgeon and paid for by the English Tax payer – SHAN is such a slow reader that it has taken him three weeks to read 109 pages. I will recommend that he reads The Hindus – An alternative History, by Wendy Doniger, and the Clash Within, by Martha Nussbaum. Both are written by eminent Professors with no axe to grind.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    MANU-DHARMA, A CODE OF INJUSTICE TO NON-BRAHMINS
    Manu Dharma Sastra is the weapon of the “highest caste” Brahmins. It has two main motives. First of all this enables the Brahmins to call themselves most superior to other castes and lead a happy life without doing any manual work. It has made the sons of the soil (Dravidians) as slaves to them forever. The non-Brahmins are deprived of their self-respect and decency. The second motive is to render injustice to all Dravidians as stipulated in the Manu’ law. When such an order is set up permanently, the organisations such as the government, courts, constitutional acts etc. would naturally be dominated and monopolised by the Brahmin community. Such an arrangement would render all others as slaves for ever. This is the other motive of the Manu’s code.
    It was clearly ordained that Manu’s code or law should be strictly followed for a period of three thousand years.
    The sudra (Dravidians) kings and other rulers took pride in proclaiming that they ruled the people as laid down in the Manu law. Thus the Brahmins sought the necessary safeguards to maintain the evil of casteism attached to others by birth.

    [Reply]

  • abhi

    “In Tennessee, US, residents in September moved a court to block construction of a mosque”.
    The question I would like to be answered is “Why are you concerned about the construction of a mosque in Tennessee? Let the people of Tennessee handle it.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    harami isee ko kahte hain.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    abhi–that is the issue..they do not have the concept of nation states.. All Muslims belong to “Umma”. So any msulim’s problem becomes every other Muslim’s problem, and hence the bombings and suicide attacks etc in Manhattan or London for somebody fighting somewhere in Uganda (or Pakistan).

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    when there was no america there was no bombing.what about tamil tigers,what about oklohama bomber and many liberation movements in latin america.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde, your words , All Muslims belong to “Umma”. So any msulim’s problem becomes every other Muslim’s problem
    This is the joke or canard of the millenium. bangladeshi women were raped by circumcised pathan pakistanis, iran iraq war killed millions, kurds were gassed by fellow sunnis, saudis hate turks like anything and according to latest wikileaks SAUDI BEGGING AMERICA TO BLOW THE HELL OUT OF IRAN. Still umma , oh yes saudis coming to hyderabad to pick thirteen year girls for nikah *** one night sex which is AIDS free.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    So the Saffron Hindu Fundo, opens his bowels once again.

    Hinduatva is not the biggest joke of the Kal Yug era, but UMMA is. Coming from a religion which can not even agree upon what God is or is not. But he does tighten his Lun Goat every day.

    Hindus are no strangers to paedophilia, rape or incest. They dont even spare budding Tennis Players.

    One does not have to look at Saudi Muslims for bad examples, there are several much worse examples closer to home.

    You need to talk to you mum a bit more Mr Shan.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    What does waht Shan said have to do with hindwata? All he said are facts – Iran/Iraq war, gasing of Kurds etc… So he was questioning of Umma, asto when it is and when it is not..
    Why do you jump on him with hindwata–What does it have to do with what he said?

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Hinduatva is a made up political concept, just as Umma is. Both are impractical and irrelevant. But The HINDU FUNDO SHAN pointedly pokes fun at the UMMA but not at the equally laughable concept of Hindutava.

    Iran/Iraq war and all other Muslim violence on Muslim just goes to show how absurd and flawed this concept is. It is only ever mentioned by Islamists and Hindu Fundos, like SHAN.

    Normal people go about their business, including waring and feuding etc.

  • abhi

    Multiculturalism had “utterly failed” is a racist statement? Against which race is she talking about? Are you really an Indian first and a msulim next?

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Zia wrote about the denial of his visa to enter US a few blogs ago. He felt he should have been granted a visa, and criticized US policy. He ignored the fact that it is entirely upto the destination country to grant a visa , and they can reject on any grounds.

    Now he is taking it one step further – that the destination country should embrace and lovylovy all its immigrants. He does not mention about any responsibility or how Muslims should adapt/absorb/assimilate/integrate and go about functioning in a new society.

    And most important of all, he ignores why only Muslims are facing these. For a change, can there be something wrong with Muslims? Instead of blaming Angela Markel (and the Dutch, British, and even here in India), can they introspect into themselves about why these are happening and implement the needed changes into their daily lives.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Her statement is against all races that are not Germanic.

    [Reply]

  • http://techcentral.in Kunal

    You said Angela Merkel’s statement is racist. I don’t agree. She just highlighted a problem, didnt make a racist statement. She didn’t say she doesn’t support multiculturalism…she just said the way they are doing it right now is not working.

    Reading that first sentence and how you interpreted it, made me realise this article is going to be biased as most of your other ones.

    England is going to reduce migrants. But you have interpreted it as “they are going to reduce Muslim migrants”. Another ridiculous reasoning.

    It is true that there is a general fear about Muslim population in the western countries, but not all decisions are based on faith. You conveniently forgot to mention the GFC and that many western countries are or were in recession, so they have to take steps to curb migration.

    Also, you forgot to realise that their fear of Muslims is well established. Nobody believes that all Muslims are terrorists, but you would be joking if you haven’t realised yet that 99% of terrorists are Muslims. If i get onto a local train in Mumbai and see a bearded muslim with a backpack, are you trying to convince me i shouldn’t be scared coz not all muslims are terrorists ??

    You write blogs as if you consider people are wrong getting scared of each and every Muslim.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Kunal

    I think you make some good points which, with respect, need a response.

    As every one now knows that politicians say things in a language which is palatable to the public at large but in private their views as well as their language is often intemperate.

    Whilst Angela Merkel did not make a RACIST comment, but I am convinced that there was an element of soft racism as well as anti Muslim sentiments in it. For reasons as to why she said what she did, one has to look at the performance of German Right Wing parties in their recent elections. She has taken their sacred cow and adopted it, so that she can defuse the most venomous elements of it. Muslim Multi Kulti is to Germans, what Ayodhya is to BJP. An Election stunt.

    Similar, argument can be made about the situation in UK, except that in the last eletion there, the far right did badly even in high immigration areas. The principle reason is Job Protection in UK.

    Being scared is a natural reaction, but with some rational thought, it can be managed.

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    There would not have been the present backlash against Muslims if the country of Pakistan was not on the map.

    Pakistan went through a major transformation after the loss of Bengla Desh; very much like what the Muslim Caliphates went through after the attack of Baghdad by Mongols. The Baghdad attack gave the Mullas the cover they always wanted; hands in power. They brought Allah’s wrath as the cause for attack; questioning the Book a crime, and stopped Ijtehad. The people, culture, and religion froze then.

    Zia Al Haq essentiially did the same thing to Pakistan after the Bangla Desh war. It was Allah’s wrath on Pakistan that caused the loss of Bangla Desh. And he was the man to bring Pakistan back in the good grace of Allah. So madrasas, intermingling of army and clerics, religious training to army officers, changes in history books…..Volunteers were plenty to fight the war against the “godless” Soviets in Afghanistan. Mrs Bhutto completed what Zia started. She, in conjunction with Hamid Gul, directed ISI to set terror training camps to train terrorists to be sent to Kashmir. All this created a perfect mix of Mulla/terrorists/army/intelligence; and no civil government to speak off.

    Every Islamic terrorism, starting from 9/11, has its tentacles to Pakistan. Unfortunately nobody can do anything about Pakistan because of theiir bombs. And the international terror training will continue there until Pakistan disintegartes.

    So; as long as Pakistan is there, this backlash will continue. If it was not there, it is quite conceivable that a backlash like this would have never happened. (unless some other Muslim country gave the military and logistical support)

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    November 29, 2010 North Korea: The Threat of War…

    KNOW THE FACTS: North Korea lost close to 30% of its population as a result of US bombings in the 1950s

    by Michel Chossudovsky

    Global Research, November 27, 2010

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    The World is at a dangerous crossroads.

    The US is seeking a pretext to wage war on North Korea.

    North Korea is said to constitute a threat to Global Security.

    From the Truman Doctrine to Obama. The history of the 1950s Korean war confirms that extensive war crimes were committed against the Korean people. As confirmed by the statement of General Curtis Lemay:

    “Over a period of three years or so we killed off – what – twenty percent of the population.”1

    North Korea lost close to thirty percent of its population as a result of US led bombings in the 1950s. US military sources confirm that 20 percent of North Korea’s population was killed off over a three period of intensive bombings:

    “After destroying North Korea’s 78 cities and thousands of her villages, and killing countless numbers of her civilians, [General] LeMay remarked, “Over a period of three years or so we killed off – what – twenty percent of the population.” It is now believed that the population north of the imposed 38th Parallel lost nearly a third its population of 8 – 9 million people during the 37-month long “hot” war, 1950 – 1953, perhaps an unprecedented percentage of mortality suffered by one nation due to the belligerance of another.”2

    During The Second World War the United Kingdom lost 0.94% of its population, France lost 1.35%, China lost 1.89% and the US lost 0.32%. During the Korean war, North Korea lost close to 30 % of its population.

    These figures of civilian deaths in North Korea should also be compared to those compiled for Iraq by the Lancet Study (John Hopkins School of Public Health). The Lancet study estimated a total of 655,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, following the US led invasion (March 2003- June 2006).

    We call upon the people of the US, Canada and NATO countries to put pressure on their governments.

    A war on North Korea would engulf the entire region.

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    UK has 2 faces. People who are product of Church schools (which cater only to Christians unlike in India), who consider Britain as a Christian country (may be it is legal) ONLY (BNP group). Another set, which come from community schools are products of PC (political correctness) culture. I am quoting the experience of my friend whose children attend a community school. The books that these children get from schools are also supposed to have Muli-Kulti flavour. One day children will get a story book on Tom and Kate digging the garden. Another day, the book will be about Rahim-Fatima and how Rahim went to Mosque with his grand dad wearing a white hat. The Muslim parents demand the school to declare Eid to be a holiday. Add this PC culture with language translators in every government organizations. Top it with, Liberal Democrat’s plan to offer amnesty to all illegal immigrants (a million in number, total population being 60 million) by issuing British citizenship. (I was thinking “secularism” in India was heights. Coming across these examples I felt, India can still take few more tips!) If the natives go mad with this PC culture, liberals will brand them “racist”. I consider calling class 2 with class 1 is wrong.

    In India, most of the generation born between 70s to 80s did not learn Ramayana and Maha Bharat by reading books. They saw the tele-serials. Maha Bharat serial was scripted by a Muslim. Muslims had accepted these epics as part of our culture. Now, suddenly there is a change of heart and they have started to say Ramayana is yours, Quran is ours. When they question about existence of Ram, it does not look like a rational argument (as they do not seem to question Islamic faiths in the same spirit). Instead, it looks as if they are challenging the identity of Hindus. If one opposes this trend, then he must belong to “Saffron Terror”. My argument is; it could be Islamic, it could have been something else. (As I said earlier, a north Indian imposing his culture in South India is also considered as a threat by locals. Tamil Nadu opposed Hindi channels, as it felt its native culture was threatened. There was no religious angle there).

    One can keep their culture/faith alive, without IMPOSING it on others. The urge to keep the identity of a community by not mixing with local culture looks as an “attitude” and threat for other communities. (Again it could be Islamic or could be people from some other state). Muslims are NOT required to tell “how peaceful Islam is” for OTHERS. Instead, if they fight with the radical elements inside, have a debate with violent group in open forums, that would create more awareness. Binoy Hegde, brings one more point. Community center at WTC was spearheaded by a Sufi couple. However, Americans did not know that Sufis are pacifists and very much different from Wahabis. Again, please don’t tell others how Shias are different from Wahabis. Let Shias debate with Wahabis (not the usual riots) frequently. People will understand the difference better.

    For a change, can our media arrange an open debate about the topic : “Uniform civil code: Concerns of Muslims”. Let there be only muslims in in panel. Sunnis, Shias; conservatives and liberals (let “liberals” be represented by “practicing muslims” who can quote Quran well. Common Indian muslim can not identify themselves with with Shabana Azmi or Mahesh Bhat). Let the debate focus more on Indian Constitution and Muslims rather than how majority treats Muslims, how it should have treated instead etc (we have seen, several such kinds). This kind of open debate will shed more light on Islamic views, rather than the usual script of “what Islam is about”, written for others.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    I mostly agree with the sentiments you express.

    The key word is IMPOSE, if Islam is imposed upon us or we impose Hinduism on others then we are courting trouble.

    For your information, no matter what the funding arrangement is for a school in England the curriculum it follows is the National Curriculum. There are many Catholic and CofE church schools, but any one can go them. Which school one goes to is mostly determined by the schools catchment area which is geographically determined? There are a few, Muslim Schools, Hindu Schools and one or two Khalsa Schools. Each of these have an obligation to follow the National Curriculum. Their day may start with a prayer (from their chosen Religion) but the rest of the day is spent following the National Curriculum. Every now and then some Muslim school gets mentioned in the Press because the Saudi book they were using has iapproprite use of language towards people of other faiths. Such books are often withdrawn.

    As far as PC books are concerned, it doesn’t stop at books. Enid Blyton had a Negro Character called Golly Wog, all such books have been changed. This is a good thing, not PC gone mad. Imagine if you are the only Black Child in a class and the teacher reads a story with a Golly Wog as a character. The philosophical reason behind such correctness is that the child did not have choice, when it came to choosing his skin colour. That was an accident of birth. Similarly, for 99.9% of the people in the world, religion is not a matter of choice. We are all born into one religion or another. Hardly any one changes their religion.

    Sikhs in India are treated a bit like that. I am not sure if you saw a magnificent film called Jagte Raho, in it there is a Sikh Character, shown with no Turban and a piece of cloth holding his fixed beard in place. That was a caricature of a Sikh. Now come 50 years forward and in Dil to Pagal hai, there is a Sikh character with a bit more substantial role. Finally we mature into Singh is King.

    Positive role models in popular culture is the best way to create a cohesive society out of disparate elements.

    A Muslim writing the script for Mahabharata, or writing our most popular Filmy Bhajans, and actively participating in Ram Lila is still very much the norm in India. Muslim alienation is a transient phase.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    A few “misguided” people can kill generations of harmony and peace. Kerala has been an example where multiple faiths lived together; lauded as “gods own land” not just for natural beauty, but also for the harmonious social structure.

    However, people now live in suspicion of their Muslim neighbours, for founded or unfounded reasons. Questions and doubts arise “if rich educated kids-like-my-kids can do this (such as going to Pak to get LeT training or getting killed in Kashmiri jehad, what about the poor, neglected Bihari Muslim boy”. The activities uncovered after the chopping off of the Christian professor’s hand and the arrest of Abdus Madani have created an environment of suspicion, if not a total lack of trust. Five hundred of them can write filmi bhajans, but it only takes one to screw up. And there are many running around ibased on the daily police reports. And the latest ireport says “Kerala’s open system and active involvement of Muslims in politics are used by foreign Muslims for money laundering as well as source of funding for extremist activities worldwide. “

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    That is fine.

    You look at the one guy who is chopping hands.

    I will delight in the romance of a Hindu Bhajan wirtten by a muslim and often even sung by a Muslim.

    I guess we are very different, and I for one am grateful to god for him making me different from you.

    Sukh ke sab sathi, dukh mein na koi,
    mere Ram ek tera nam sacho, duja na koi.

    Shakeel Badhayuni wrote it, Mohd Rafi Sang it. I rather live in that India than the one you paint it.

    ram autar Reply:

    gopi most of the hindu bhajan are tuned by bade ustad bismillah khan.i also enjoy them but all ur god are imaginary.from durga to anand mai mata to to vaishnao devi or ayyapan.
    but i like these frauds as they boost our economy.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravithe greatest admirer of hadith., any remark towards Islam has to go through the PC filter, what when it comes to africans they are expendable, Golly Wogs is a derogatory word which caricatures black people and is used by by racist like you . It is same as the word ****, it may originally may have meant pakistani but now it means a highly offensive term to denote any brown people like that used against SHILPA SHETTY in Big Brother.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    The Saffron Terrorist and suporter of LUN GOAT wEARING SEMI NAKED ROTUND Vermin.

    The word Golly Wog was invented by Enid Blyton. Read what I sadi once again. You Phuking ****

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Latest on the “Portland Bombing” case…

    “Mahmud (the 19 year old defendent) stated that he wanted to do a “Mumbai like Spectacular” attack on Portland. Ever since Mumnbai happened, he has been thinking of doing one like that in the US. He said his parents were not good followers of Allah because they did not allow him to go to Pakistan, and his father, although a devout Muslim, spent too much time in the secular environment of Intel. Corporation.”

    As customary to all jehadis, he did make a video indicating killing as many will let him to heaven (coming from a 19 year)

    He had extensive email correspondence with two Pakistani addressses; FBI is investigating them.

    shan Reply:

    @vinay, lets give you some statistics. immigrants make about 9% of the total population.Half of this lives in LONDON. Now in London most of the schools are comprehensive schools. regarding church schools , they are consistently high performing schools, the top of the ladder is the JEWISH ONLY girls school in North London. There are about four ISLAM ONLY schools where girls come to school in hizab, are taught allah created men rather than men evolving out of the evolutionary process. THESE ARE ALL ALSO EXCLUSIVELY STATE FUNDED SCHOOLS.Now Christian schools have a christian ethos , WELL BRITAIN IS A CHRISTIAN OR PROTESTANT COUNTRY, and all its virtues are a byproduct of that protestant ethics which i am never tired of pointing. The people may not beleive in the gospel , and have only faith in science, BUT CULTURALLY MOST ARE CHRISTIANS,like name ,burial wedding etc..There are saudi funded schools , which has been found to teach after school hours special lessons , the books contain passages that are virulently anti semetic and thoroughly bigotted. As luck would have it the current minister for education is a jew , and have asked the school inspectors to report to him.next is GRAMMAR SCHOOLS this is only by SELECTION with admission tests , though these are state funded BUT MEANT TO PRODUCE THE BRAIN FOR THE COUNTRY. And last but MOST IMPORTANT is the private schools known as public schools.THEY ARE MEANT TO PRODUCE RULING CLASS.
    regarding debate in islam, it is just not possible PRIOR TO THAT YOU NEED A CIVIL WAR WITHIN ISLAM to just force this idea of debate, but I see not a great deal of hope , THOUGH WHEN OIL DRIES OUT OR ALTERNATE IS FOUND , THEN SOULSEARCHING WILL BEGIN.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I will take issues with a number of things in the above post.

    1. The Grammar Schools which require 11Plus exam, are only surviving in a hand full of counties. For instance Buckinghamshire has them but Berkshire next door does not. This means there is a Slough Grammar school but the School in Windsor is a comprehensive.

    2. Protestant Religion requires the dead to be of Buried and then rise again on the day of reckoning, but most English people get cremated, increasingly even Catholics are cremated. That is because most people are not dogmatic about their religion.

    3. The whole idea of having a Muslim school is so that they can practice their way of life – how ever reprehensible we may find it.

    4. More theological debate takes place within Islam than it does in almost any other religion. It has had well established schools of jurisprudence for centuries. In India the Barelvi and the Deobandi schools hardly agree with each other. The debate is perpetual. The main problem is that Saudi money is channelled to the deobandi school and not to the Barelvi school. Soul searching was going on long before Oil was discovered.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    “they can practise their way of life” – that is the problem! They cannot immigrate to another country and then clamour for 3 hour Friday noon break or protest against no-Burqua or public holiday for Ramzan etc… Either they calibrate their “way of life” to the new country’s norms, or emigrate or not immigrate.

    Zia’s argument seems to be it is the right of every one to immigrate and then flaunt ones religious background and then obtain many concessions because one is a muslim, because they do not want to work and want to receive social welfare as bloggers from UK and US suggest. And it also looks like, from UK blogger, they receive welfare and plan terrorist attacks on UK. Strange…

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    Is that your considered opinion.

    If so then I do not agree. Britain is a plural society and it allows a significant latitude to its immigrant communities, Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims alike.

    You may have forgotten, but I do remeber Sikhs requesting exemption from the compulsory wearing of helmets. In France, where no religious symbols are allowed in the school, Sikhs have requested that they be allowed to wear Kirpans in the school.

    So what ever is it that you are describing is not just restricted to Muslims.

    shan Reply:

    lord Denning ruled against the sikh’s petition , it is only when they went to european court of justice , they got rulig in their favour. The latitude by UK is paid back handsomely by bombing british people in tube trains and hatching two thousand plots.

    S Singh Reply:

    Last time I checked, it was only (some)Muslims who terrorized UK/Europe. not Hindus, budhists, sikhs. Uk is perfectly right to deport muslims and create immigration barriers for Muslims. Why invite trouble?

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    Because, people in UK do not feel as if they are being terrorised. It is only 3 people in this blog who feel that. People do not get off the tube if a bearded Muslim boards their carriage.

    Otherwise, you think that UK public is so docile that they will live under constant threat of terror. If you do, then more fool you. This is nothing more than a few idiots and the UK Gov has them in their site. (Cue for SHAN to suggest that MI5 are looking at 2000 open investigations) Ha Ha Ha.

    However, your original point was not related to terrorism, just to Muslims demanding their rights to be recognised. When I pointed that other communities too demand that, you have changed tack to Islamic Terrorism. That makes you an Isalmophobe.

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh.

    Here is the situation of Sikhs asserting their rights in Canada.

    “We did talk to the government when the legislation was introduced. It was showed to us. Yes (they said), they would look into that one. We never heard anything after that.”

    It’s the latest example of the Sikh religious dress code running headlong head·long
    adv.
    1. With the head leading; headfirst: The runner slid headlong into third base.

    2. In an impetuous manner; rashly.

    3. At breakneck speed or with uncontrolled force. into Canadian legal and cultural conventions.

    Johal said the 130,000-member community in British ColumbiaBritish Columbia, province (2001 pop. 3,907,738), 366,255 sq mi (948,600 sq km), including 6,976 sq mi (18,068 sq km) of water surface, W Canada. Geography

    ….. Click the link for more information. has been fighting for two decades to exempt turbaned Sikhs from wearing hard hats on construction sites.

    Canadian school boards have balked balk
    v. balked, balk·ing, balks

    v.intr.
    1. To stop short and refuse to go on: The horse balked at the jump.

    2. at letting Sikh pupils wear the kirpan Noun 1. kirpan – a ceremonial four-inch curved dagger that Sikh men and women are obliged to wear at all times
    dagger, sticker – a short knife with a pointed blade used for piercing or stabbing , a small ceremonial dagger.

    Sikhs from Canada, did Bomb an Air India Plane, which killed more people than the terrorism plots in UK did.

    Kunal Reply:

    “people don’t get off the tube because of a muslim” – I DO …and I HAVE….maybe i am paranoid but after living in mumbai you dont take chances. It’s obviously not irrational…it’s surely less probability maybe chance of 0.0001 % that he would blow himself up..but who wants to take a chance.

    Ofcourse that’s not a valid reason to stop migration, but Zia Haq thinks people shouldn’t be scared of Muslims…he’s crazy.

    Ravi Reply:

    Kunal

    What you do and how you feel is personal to you.

    However, I was making a general comment and in UK on trains and tubes, people do not get off the train because an obvious Muslim has got into their garrage.

    None of the London Tube Bombers looked like a bearded Muslim. They looked like you and I do. So if by chance you were in a tube with one of them, you would have not got off and therefore would have been in harms way.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Kunal

    You are perfectly alright to be cautious and not take chances.

    Juan Williams, a respected journalist here in USA, not a hate monger, not a right wing persona; a liberal black man, made similar statement here in USA last month. He said he will be scared to board a plane where there was “conspicuous” Muslims. He said that he believes in the statement the Manhattan bomber Shahzad, the Pakistani Muslim American son of a Pakistani Muslim Air Vice Marshal, made in his court trial that “blood will flow in American streets” . He said Muslim jehadists will bomb whenever they get a chance and wherever they could find a slot. .
    If you and I are afraid of this, and if that makes us Islamaphobe, let it be.. I will take an Islamaphobe any time than an Islamic terrorist!

    Kunal Reply:

    Zia Haq also conveniently forgot how Malaysia is also turning it’s back on multiculturalism and trying to impose Islam on Chinese and Indian origin Malaysians. Most Malaysian Chinese I have met are leaving Malaysia and going to Australia, as they do not get the same rights as the native Malays.

    Also there was a news show where Christians in Egypt complained about Churches which do not get permission easily to be constructed.

    Why only the West should adopt multiculturalism…why shouldn’t the east and countries like Saudi Arabia too have the same rights and be secular ?

    That’s called hypocrisy.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    One of my Malay chinese class mate mentioned that 1) Malaysia Govt grants more foreign study scholarships to Bhumiputra (Muslim) students often bypassing other students who have more marks and 2)married Muslim students get allowance to take their spoue with them while others do not get it

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    And then there was “Allah Gate” attacks.. attacks on Churches because Christians there use te word Allah for God (one would think that is a good thing; but not Muslims).. Govt filed a case that Christians should not use the word Allah….

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Is this rule something like the “blasphemy” law in Pakistan? Can somebody explain why this Christian woman (Aysa??) is arrested and sentnced to be killed there. I read something about she gave water to a muslim neighbour in the same glass she used or something… and that invites a death sentence???.

    ram autar Reply:

    kurien blashphamy law exists in european countries as well.specially in england.

    ram autar Reply:

    kunal this is rubbish.chinese and hindus were guest workers but given full right.neverthless lie is staple food and hate is ur duty.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Bloggers et al, rather old stuff , but none the less very important. This is part of the speech given by the chief of MI5, Dame neville manningham schloss
    Terrorist threat to UK – MI5 chief’s full speech
    Following is the full text of a speech delivered on November 9, 2006 by Eliza Manningham-Buller, Director-General of MI5, on the terrorist threat facing the UK:

    The International Terrorist Threat to the UK

    I have been Director General of the Security Service/M15 since 2002. Before that I was Deputy Director General for five years. During that time, and before, I have witnessed a steady increase in the terrorist threat to the UK. It has been the subject of much comment and controversy. I rarely speak in public. I prefer to avoid the limelight and get on with my job. But today, I want to set out my views on:

    * the realities of the terrorist threat facing the UK in 2006;
    * what motivates those who pose that threat
    * and what my Service is doing, with others, to counter it.

    I speak not as a politician, nor as a pundit, but as someone who has been an intelligence professional for 32 years.

    2. Five years on from 9/11, where are we? Speaking in August, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, the head of the Anti-Terrorist Branch of the Metropolitan Police, described the threat to the UK from Al-Qaida-related terrorism as ‘real, here, deadly and enduring”. Only last week the Home Secretary said the threat will be “enduring — the struggle will be long and wide and deep.” Let me describe more fully why I think they said that. We now know that the first Al-Qaida-related plot against the UK was the one we discovered and disrupted in November 2000 in Birmingham. A British citizen is currently serving a long prison sentence for plotting to detonate a large bomb in the UK. Let there be no doubt about this: the international terrorist threat to this country is not new. It began before Iraq, before Afghanistan, and before 9/11.

    3. In the years after 9/11, with atrocities taking place in Madrid, Casablanca, Bali, Istanbul and elsewhere, terrorists plotted to mount a string of attacks in the UK, but were disrupted. This run of domestic success was interrupted tragically in London in July 2005. Since then, the combined efforts of my Service, the police, SIS and GCHQ have thwarted a further five major conspiracies in the UK, saving many hundreds (possibly even thousands) of lives. Last month the Lord Chancellor said that there were a total of 99 defendants awaiting trial in 34 cases. Of course the presumption of innocence applies and the law dictates that nothing must be said or done which might prejudice the right of a defendant to receive a fair trial. You will understand therefore that I can say no more on these matters.

    4. What I can say is that today, my officers and the police are working to contend with some 200 groupings or networks, totalling over 1600 identified individuals (and there will be many we don’t know) who are actively engaged in plotting, or facilitating, terrorist acts here and overseas. The extremists are motivated by a sense of grievance and injustice driven by their interpretation of the history between the West and the Muslim world. This view is shared, in some degree, by a far wider constituency. If the opinion polls conducted in the UK since July 2005 are only broadly accurate, over 100,000 of our citizens consider that the July 2005 attacks in London were justified. What we see at the extreme end of the spectrum are resilient networks, some directed from Al-Qaida in Pakistan, some more loosely inspired by it, planning attacks including mass casualty suicide attacks in the UK. Today we see the use of home-made improvised explosive devices; tomorrow’s threat may include the use of chemicals, bacteriological agents, radioactive materials and even nuclear technology. More and more people are moving from passive sympathy towards active terrorism through being radicalised or indoctrinated by friends, families, in organised training events here and overseas, by images on television, through chat rooms and websites on the Internet.

    5. The propaganda machine is sophisticated and Al-Qaida itself says that 50% of its war is conducted through the media. In Iraq, attacks are regularly videoed and the footage downloaded onto the internet within 30 minutes. Virtual media teams then edit the result, translate it into English and many other languages, and package it for a worldwide audience. And, chillingly, we see the results here. Young teenagers are being groomed to be suicide bombers. We are aware of numerous plots to kill people and to damage our economy. What do I mean by numerous? Five? Ten? No, nearer……. thirty that we know of. These plots often have links back to Al-Qaida in Pakistan and through those links Al-Qaida gives guidance and training to its largely British foot soldiers here on an extensive and growing scale. And it is not just the UK of course. Other countries also face a new terrorist threat: from Spain

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    well, the threat only has increased..

    7 Pakistani Muslims were arrested in Spain yesterday in connection with 11/26.

    A Somali Muslim was arrested in Portland last week for planning a blow up of a crowded town center area in Portland..

    Several Muslims were arrested in Belgium last week for what else– planned blow ups..

    Muslims planned the explosion of three cargo planes (Fedex, UPS) three weeks ago; the disaster was avoided thru the tip received from Saudi Arabia

    Several Msulism were arrested in Germany last month, again for planned blow ups. In fact Germany was under nationwide alert towards the end of October based on intelligence info.

    and every frucking terrorist has a PAkistani connection — training, command and control, money laundering..

    It was only four months ago a Pakistani Vice Marshal’s son (who is married to a college professor’s daughter) was arrested for his planned blowing up of Manhattan.

    And Zia is wondering why the West is not “as accepting” muslims as it used to be..

    What palnet is he living in!

    Ohhh dont tell me now the Book is pure, only few are committing these, somebody is making them do it, Pakistani is blowing up because US bombed Iraq….

    ram autar Reply:

    pundit hegde world has become very unsafe place,because of muslim terrorists,

    GHAR SE NIKALNA BAND KAR DO.

    Ravi Reply:

    I wonder what Mi5 and GCHQ were doing throught the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.

    Failing to record that, makes you out as an ISLAMOPHOBE.

    Nothing new there then.

    Kunal Reply:

    It will obviously feel rubbish to you as you can’t accept the reality. Simple searches on Google would prove that I am right. If you don’t want to believe that then go to Malaysia and experience it for yourself.

    Visa Informer Reply:

    India, China set for crucial border talks ahead of Wen Jiabao’s visit – Daily News & Analysis…

    We have added a Trackback to your article on the Visa Informer….

  • Vinay

    @Ravi
    Regarding Church School : Anyone will be allowed to join an under-subscribed school. If it is oversubscribed (more applicants), preference will be given to a practicing Christian residing 3 miles away from the school to a non Christian living within half a mile from the School. In India, schools follow different faith practices. But so far, I have not come across faith as the entry criteria. (I know about money criteria though!)

    Sikhs being treated differently: Even today, caricature of Southies in Hindi movies is an accented Madrassi cartoon character. For that, I don’t advocate a compulsory introduction of Southie characters in north Indian children’s text book. A grown up north Indian definitely will not perceive a Southerner to be a Mahamood of “Padosan”. He will have some sense.

    Islam is imposed upon us or we impose Hinduism on others : For this, I will give a separate answer.

    @Kunal, Binoy
    Being Islamophobic : Most of the time, me being very haphazard at organizing things have to end up being late to the airport, sometimes even missing flights! But one day was an exception. I packed everything early. Went much early to the airport. Everything went so organized that I was pinching myself, has nothing gone wrong. Then I saw few ladies wearing Hijabs walking around in the waiting lounge. I have seen such people lot of times in market areas and have felt nothing. But seeing them in airport (with “something is wrong” syndrome in my brain), suddenly a thought came out; “May be it’s my last day!”. It took long to get over. Of course, it happened years back. But that should be enough to prove that I am one.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    if europeans or white skin zoinists want to learn multicuturism ,they should visit dubai,kualampur istamboul or jakarta.
    whole world wants to come here to make future and good life.yesterday i found 2 americans searching jobs in one of these countries.u can see difference between
    rascism /zoinism and izlam.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    Not sure I fully understand the point you are making. But here is my undersatnding.

    I hope you are not suggesting that caricatures of Black People/Sikhs/Madrasi’s etc should be allowed to continue, because the audinece is sophisticated enough to know when it is a joke and when it is a real insult.

    If that is what you meant then I am gald to say that I disagree with you. You can add my name to those who are PC militants.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Ravi,
    I would criticize caricatures of Black People/Sikhs/Madrasi in a funny way. But to counter it, I will not suggest to forcibly put these characters compulsory in children’s books. A story starting with “Chenne Gowda and Krishna Reddy were friends” is not required to create awareness about southern India for a northern child. That is what I meant, when I spoke about Rahim going to Mosque story. I can’t elaborate more.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Then I beg to disagree

  • Vinay

    @Ravi,
    Islam is imposed upon us or we impose Hinduism on others :

    I will state an example from my home state, Karnataka. Here 100s of years ago, Tipu imposed Urdu on local muslims whose mother tongue was Kannada. Since then, they have been speaking Urdu at home and Kannada for daily business. It is the same case with other languages like Tulu, Konkani (people speak them at home, but use Kannada everywhere else). There are many muslim writers who have enriched Kannada literature and are well acknowledged by local people.

    With this background, I am narrating an incident which must have happened 25 years ago (much before Rathyatra and polarization). There was a muslim MLA who always spoke in English in legislative assembly of Karnataka. As most of the southern states at that time, “save Kannada” campaign was going on. So a fellow MLA demanded him to speak in Kannada (He was doing it for every person, who used to speak in English then). But the answer by the muslim MLA, surprised many. He said, “If you don’t let me speak in English, I will speak Urdu”. People of Karnataka had always thought Kannada was part of Muslims; since when it got “imposed”? First they alienate from a culture, which is part of them. Then, they start saying “it is imposed on them”. This happens all over India. People might come out with some more theories. I would just call it “attitude problem”.

    Have Hindus tried to impose Hindu culture in some other country? Our holy places are there in India, not in Brazil. Ayodhya or Kashi did not become our holy places, because of RSS. Our grand parents, like so many else from southern India (with no Hindi knowledge) have struggled to visit Varanasi in pre independence days; traveling for days in train. They have waited till their *** end to finish off all their responsibilities (as there was no guarantee of coming back then!) for this “Kashi Yatra” which is “once in a life time visit”. If somebody says, this place is as holy as Mecca for Hindus; how did it become “imposing our culture” to others?
    Pakistan became Islamic republic. But we did not become “Hindustan”. We remained as India and liberal. For what? To get kicked every now and then, to be told we are not “liberal enough”. It is always the fate with liberal countries, as they allow activists like Arundhati Roy. Rigid countries (be it Saudi or Pak or even Kashmir) are always spared as they never let any independent thinker to survive. (We have not heard of any Kashmiri human right activist who has spoken for Kashmiri Pandit’s right. Roys can exist only in India, not in Kashmir.)

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    I can see you are upset, about what though, I dont get it.

    I am not responsible for Islam/Pakistan/Saudi Arabia or any other ism or country. They can do what they like. I dont approve of their shananigans and where appropriate disapprove of them.

    When you say Tipu Sultan imposed Urdu, where did Urdu come from. Was it not born in India.

    Was English not imposed upon all of us.

    Good looks like giving an individual a choice within reason. By that I mean practicality.

    In UK GOV Literature if often re-produced in many languages, no one forces UK to do that, it does it because it feels that if it has allowed adult migration then to a certain degree it is its responsibity to forge effective communication with its citizens. This is not a Muslim problem, but a language problem. Gujarati is read by both Hindus and Muslims.

    In my life time an attempt was made to standardise Hindi and a Pan India Language. I also remember South Indians revolting against it.

    So yes there is an issue, but is the issue soley a Muslim issue. I don’t think so.

    Not sure what I should make out of your point about Pilgrimage to Kashi. Personally I think even that has been imposed upon South Indians, by the Arayans.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Ravi,

    “Where did Urdu come from. Was it not born in India ? ” :

    Urdu is mainly Hindi with Persian and Arabic influence. Karnataka people were speaking none of these languages. If you hear Karnataka muslim’s Urdu, you will realize. Answer for “Kya hain?” will be “Kyaa bi nayi..”. These poor people have picked up some Urdu words and have cooked up with Kannada grammar. That is why you don’t see Urdu poetry etc coming from this land, like north of India. (Learning to speak itself must have been a tough task). Hence any literature work, they produce in Kannada.

    “Pilgrimage to Kashi was imposed on South Indians by Aryans”:

    This must be the “Atrocities of Aryans over Dravidas in 1500 BC”. Shiva is the main God throughout India, south or north. He is an Indus Valley God, not an Aryan God. Why should people in south consider Kashi pilgrimage as “imposed”, because someone invented a new theory?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    I hear you, but I do not agree with you.

    I will close it at that.

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay, without the right to question ,lampoon and demolish dogma,society does not move forward. not talking about your worries ,problems will not make your worries , problem go away , infact it will make it worse. It essentially becomes a Orwellian society, you cannot have a sanitised version of war , war is violence , similarly religion which reeks with elements that are totally against any progress or modernity , needs to be dismantled.There is no other way, this is what was done in protestant societies.

    shan Reply:

    @vinay, V.S Naipaul (who hasa pakistani wife 25yrs his junior) was recently asked to PRESIDE at the opening ceremony of European literary parliament arranged by NOBEL LAUREATTE TURKISH author ?pamluk ozil or something thereof. He had to withdraw from that ceremony , ? ask why.
    This is because of the protest from other turkish authors and turkish politician. Now what has he said.
    Naipaul had said during an interview just after receiving nobel prize, ISLAM HAS DESTROYED ALL TRACE OF INDEGINIOUS CULTURE , LANGUAGE , CONFIDENCE OF ALL THE PEOPLE IT CONVERTED.An Iranian doctor told me after islamic conquest of iran ALL NAMES OF IRANIAN WERE ARABIC, like al musa , al khilat or whatever. Only after SHAH ABBAS the PERSIAN names have been restored , like jamshed, navroz , etc

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I recently read a column written by Vir Sanghvi (he is a big search hit with his involvement in G2) few years ago.

    In the early 50s Yousuf Khan had to change his name to Dileep Kumar to act and be successful in movies.

    Fast forward – in mid 90s a Dileep Kumar, son of the music director RK Shekhar, becomes
    AR Rehman after becoming a Muslim. Nobody makes an issue, nobody cares; he goes on to become the most sought after, and wins Oscar.

    His rhetorical question to the constantly whiing Muslims was could someting like this have ever happened in a muslim country? The ‘equivalent” of AR Rehman there would hae been stoned to death, leave alone Oscar.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    benoy dont forget hinduism is not a religion it is a system.micheal jackson also converted.
    many top illumanities of church whom i know too converted.many advisors of american presidents too converted.NAPOLEON BONAPART too converted and emrassed islam in 1880 when entered alexenderia egypt,nearly all associates of jagjivan ram converted.i know one YAAD MOHAMMED who used to be yaadkaran.

    fraud lie and hatred are the integral parts of hindu ruling system.

    now they are selling brhmnsm by rebranding this as hinduism.

    Bobby Reply:

    @Binoy

    That, among other things, shows what a first rate dic k head , not to mention a fraud, Mr Sanghvi is. Only idiots with their brains shoved up their a ss can represent the situation of muslims, by how shahrukh khan is prospering.

    By that logic, Pakistan also should be a great tolerant country, because Deepak Perwani, a famous Hindu fanshion designer, is openly hindu and prospering. People like Sanhvi, should do what they are best at doing- which is to write articles, as dictated to them by Tata or Ambani.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, returned home in one piece after seven hour drive which should take one hour. This is due to the snow,and driving is fraught with danger with lorries jack knifed middle of the road.
    Anyway, just to say, I fully agree with your assesment of Vir Sanghvi, I think he is complete tosser. he may have been to cambridge thus considers himself a brown sahib. Despite all your argument India is definitely a better country than pakistan for people like you and me.
    In any case what do you think about this hypocrisy , zia lecturing west about tolerance .i suppose in his heart of hearts he knows well how tolerant his ilk are , but i suppose his job is to provoke.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Bobby– Will Deepak Perwani be alive if he was one who converted from islam to Hindu? Leave alone becoming a big fashion man..

    Sanghvi was talking about AR Rehman, who converted from hindu to Islam and nobody cared, he went on to become a big music man..

    Will something like this ahppen in Pakistan?

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde, Deepak Perwani cannot do a A.R.Rahman in pakistan , he will come under APOSTASY LAW, this is the worst sin according to Quoran , therefore UNLESS MUSLIM SOCIETY BECOMES SECULAR THEY WILL BE MENTALLY STUCK TO YEAR HIZRA ONE.

    Bobby Reply:

    @Binoy,

    There are very famous Pakistanis, who are openly atheists. And they are not being lynched. So I guess, that should answer your question.

    The problem with pakistan is not islam, but the religious indoctrination via the state. It got a big boost in the time of Zia-Ul-Huq. If the Sangh parivar is in power in India, then India would be a hindu version of Pakistan.

    The “innate goodness” of hinduism, not withstanding.

    shan Reply:

    Dear Bobby, I love the people of pakistan, I hate the stateof pakistan, but that doesn’t mean I will remain blind to what is happening across the border. Here is a cut and paste, judge for yourself
    The Lahore High Court has admitted the appeal of Dr. Shaikh, Pakistani rationalist and founder president of “The Enlightenment”, against the death sentence awarded to him for blasphemy by the Islamabad additional district and sessions court on 18 August, 2001 . Dr. Shaikh was given only one week’s time to appeal in the High Court.

    The sister of Dr Shaikh made the appeal on 21 August on behalf of him. A court official has confirmed that the appeal had been admitted.

    Dr. Muhammed Younus Shaikh, British educated physician and physiology professor in a local medical college was arrested on 4 October 2000 by the Islamabad police and booked under Section 295 C of the Pakistan Penal Code.

    Dr. Shaikh was accused to have defied Prophet Muhammed with his statement that Muhammed did not become a Muslim before the age of forty and that his parents were non-Muslims. Dr. Shaikh was found guilty and convicted under the law that prescribes death sentence if charges of blasphemy are proved. This law was added to the Pakistan Penal Code in 1986 which said whoever made derogatory remarks about Prophet Muhammed “by words either spoken, or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of Holy Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.”

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Bobby

    Well, Bobby, you are “wiseling”.. the questiuon was not about aethists. The question was could a Muslim have converted to Hindu or Christian and excelled? I will bet that Muslim will not find the light of the day.

    And no need of bringing Sangh Parivar and creating a hypothetical what if.. The fact is that a Zia Al Ha could be in power in Pakistan and “fundamentalize” and “saudisize” the country. Nobody knows what Sangh Parivar will do when they come to power. So lets ytalk about the facts and not what ifs

    Vinay Reply:

    @Shan,

    What is the point in blaming Islam or Aurangzeb for these people’s attitude (like the example of muslim MLA I gave)?

    First they disassociate from the culture which has been part of them (may be a language or a Hindu tradition). Next, they will start saying, this culture is being imposed on them. Then all liberals will start pouring sympathies towards these “victims”. There could be several more who are silent, who consider this culture as part of them (I have already mentioned about Islamic writers enriching Kannada literature). But all our policies are centered around these “loud mouth victims” than the silent breed, which unnerves me.

    If Shabana Azmi speaks of Hindu’s discrimination, I don’t blame Islam (She herself has mentioned, she is not a practicing Muslim). Then why will people discriminate her, knowing her religious stand? They discriminate her for what she is. They keep distance, because they feel she has an attitude problem.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @vinay, you have got it fantastically wrong , PEOPLE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM , THE CREED IS.
    I emphasise it has been rebranded as CREED and not religion which does the God thing. According to the prevailing mores you cannot have it anyway or your way , IT IS ONLY WAY AND THAT IS SUBMISSION TO ISLAM NOT ALLAH, or has been twisted to mean submission to allah can only come through submission to ISLAM(read UNHOLY ARABIAN EMPIRE). This schism was addressed by Martin Luther , who refused to be taken for a ride by the corrupt popes in Rome with the exactly similar argument.

    ram autar Reply:

    lie hatred and descrimination is base of hinduism.

    ram autar Reply:

    SHAN,aurangzeb was most secular fakir.in his private life he was religious pious person.while running state he was secular.he had 36.5%hindu minister witj cnc raja jaisingh hindu pm.
    he was born in battlefield and past his entire life to safeguard unity and integrity of india.saving the unity of india from mountain rats to sikh scavangers.under his rule india was economic superpower.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Shan,

    ” IT IS ONLY WAY AND THAT IS SUBMISSION TO ISLAM NOT ALLAH,”

    You can apply this theory to a jihadist, not for people like Shabana. I am not discussing about terrorism here. So will not touch upon the jihadist theory. (But I would predict it will fade away after couple of decades, because generally people don’t keep on dying for ideologies for decades. People who do it for money sake will turn away for safer jobs, even if funding is available).

    But I am speaking about another category, who have been using this “minority cards” for decades, much before terrorism started. They keep continuing even after this terrorism Tsunami stops, unless challenged. “Liberal muslims” like Shabana, Mahesh Bhat etc never practice any Islam in their life. It is only when they don’t get what they wanted, suddenly they remember they are muslims and like tantrum throwing kids will start throwing minority and victim-hood cards. Such chameleons don’t fit in any community. Neither Muslim considers that they belong to him, nor a Hindu. (The very reason they are denied of something is because of their complaining nature. Everybody knows they don’t practice any religion. So religion can’t be a criteria for keeping them away).

    Why should we look for these people’s opinions regarding Hindus-Muslim relation? Are there no better leaders to represent “liberal muslims”? Those who are practicing muslims, those who don’t have confrontational approach with other communities and those who can have debate with a radical using their Quran. Is there one such liberal muslim leader and one such “open platform” which is known to public?

    If there is none, others can’t help it. But there is no point in listening to either radicals or these pseudo liberals, just because the community have not found a proper leader. One will listen, when there is a right leader. Otherwise, one has to ignore all their arguments as rants.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Vinay

    The issue is that radicals and psuedos like Mahesh Bhatt (whatever happened to his son, the one who rented an apartment to Headley??????) are speaking for the bulk who are keeping silent. So Dracula keeps the key to the Blood Bank.

    “Minorities” will become “more of minorities” if they continue to play the minority card. Successful communities in India and everywhere else became successful because they acted and behaved like majority communities. Jews, Bahais, Ismaili Muslims ( Muslims will say Ismailis are not Muslims) . Kerala Christians never wanted to be included in “minorities”, never wanted reservations based on minorities etc. They are the most successful in kerala, and considering their small numbers, very successful at an All-India level too. Parsis. Sikhs. Bunts in Canara region (may be they are “upper caste”!)..Coorgis..

    Just see what happened to a progressive bill on womens reservation for electoral seats. It would have ushered a new clean political environment in the country. Laloo and his Muslim backers torpedoed it. based on “minority” issue — the issue being they wanted to keep the minorities suppressed as always.

    More at another time and another blog; this blog is about Multiculturalism in the Western World!

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay,shabana is champagne socialist,they are like that . Take brinda karat , daughterwell settled in US , father spewing bile against US. Jyoti Basu another communist , visited Uk every summer totalling ten times , visited switzerland,number of visits to communist country three.
    and his son , a lowly clerk in bengal lamp , morphed to a multimillionaire courtsey of dad, and then marries his own daughter’s friend who used to call him uncle.
    Why Muslim middle class doesn’t rise ,my answer is FEAR, they have rushdie, nasreen, ahmediyas as warning.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Shan
    “they have rushdie, nasreen, ahmediyas as warning.”

    But I would differ with calling Rushdie as a “liberal muslim”, just because he spoke offensive words about Prophet. He is not a practicing muslim (much in lines of Shabana). Why spitting on Mohammad should make him a liberal muslim? (I don’t consider people who speak cheaply about Hindu Gods as “liberal Hindus” either). Rushdie also has a confrontational approach like Shabana; she takes a dig at Hindus and he irritates Muslims (both for publicity). Shaba or Rushdie or Roy have to be “tolerated”, because ours is a civic society. That will not make these pseudos as role models.

    To me, liberal is someone who can practice whatever his faith is, without harming (like radicals) and without irritating (like these pseudos) somebody else. A person like Nitish Kumar who does not require Hindu polarization (like BJP radical wing) nor need to show pseudo minority-sympathies (like Congress, Lalus). Is achieving neutrality so difficult?

    ram autar Reply:

    in india pakistanis actors are beaten by rss gundaas only because they are pakistani.once amritya sen was manhandled by hindutva goons for his views.naipul is now muslim hence it is duty of people like u to hate him and abuse.

    lie is staple food and hate is duty of every hindu zoinist.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr ravi ,

    hinduism is not a religion it is a system to keep brhmns ,at top.to keep system going all type of lie voilence and theft is allowed.creation of hindu samaj was first major terrorist act on indian soil.brhmnsm is nemesis of all religions which more or less preach egalitarianism.now in a planned way they have pushed muslims dalits and backwards into grinding poverty.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinay

    You may find this interesting.

    A bar in the US has sparked outrage after it launched a campaign inviting customers to ‘drink like an Indian’. Managers at the sports bar have been forced to apologise to American Indian groups after receiving hundreds of complaints about the posters and fliers. The flyers, which advertised drink specials throughout the Thanksgiving holiday period at Station 280, in St Paul, Minnesota, featured drawings of a cowboy and an American Indian in traditional garb slumped together on the floor.

    It also included a scantily dressed woman dressed like Pocahontas with the slogan: “Drink like an Indian, party like a pilgrim. Party your *** off with us!”
    Kathy Dickerson, a craftswoman and folk storyteller with the Oklahoma-based Kiowa tribe, spotted the flyer on her friend’s Facebook page.

    “I just didn’t seem right. When things come up like that, we have to make sure people understand we’re still here, and there’s such a thing as cultural sensitivity,” the Daily Mail quoted her as telling Twincities.com.

    “They had a picture of a woman on there, too. We don’t dress like that,” she said.

    Bar owner Chris Mueller pulled the marketing campaign and said he plans to make a donation to an American Indian association to make good his apology.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    Have you considered another scenario, where instead of Indians, it was Pakistanis?

    All I can say is, I am not bothered about what happens at one pub in America. The people there will take care of what is right or wrong for them. I don’t need to justify or condemn an incident, when I am sitting in some other country, just because I am an Indian.

    Please let me know, if there were any protest marchs in India.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I think he meant “red indians” not “asian indians”.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Ravi,

    Sorry for that (my confusion). Thanks Binoy.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Have Hindus tried to impose Hindu culture in some other country?

    hindus are trying to impose their hindu cultutre everywher.when i enter delhi airport first thing i used see was ugly ganesh alongwith alongwith health hurting smoke of agarbattis.then snake ,as if i have entered in jurasik park.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Avtar,

    Yes, I did ask “Have Hindus tried to impose Hindu culture in some other country? ”

    What was your answer? Is Delhi in Saudi Arabia?

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    KASHI WAS BUDHHDIST PLACE OCCUPIED BY VEDIC.THEY CONVERTED THIS PLACE IN HINDU PLACE.

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    Revi

    I beg to disagree. Islamic terrorism is not going to stop once US leaves midle east, because it did not start with US occupying Iraq.

    It is quite common among Muslims to blame one thing or other always. Pakistanis blame the Sunni attack on Ahamadiya on NATO being in Afghanistan!

    Last year, a British Pakistani Al Jzeera reporter talked about his travel travails and the type of questions being asked at the airport and how it is racist and why Pakistan’s problem is not created by Pakistan etc in his blog. For him, the fault was with others.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shoeb

    In that case we dis-agree.

    There is more to Middle East than Iraq.

    However, I dont want to persuade you, it is not that important to me.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    iraq was heaven before american invasion.under all nationalities were living like brothers.inter-marriage was common and encouraged.cowboys greed for oil destablized the area.
    that is reason ,these jews were hated in europe.when they first arrived in america,they were greed with stones.main aim for all their inventions are to control and hurt humanity.

    their history is an open book.anybody can see.they started the game of bomb planting in 1945 to take jews to israel(israhell).0%of them migrated to usa later.they faced worst type of rascism and apartheism their.

    all races all religions can only survive under islamic rule.whose first act was tro free slaves ,not to enslave the people.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    That is total nonnsese. It is like the British Pakistani journalist above (and many Pakistanis in general) blaming India as the cause of terrorism (sunni blowing shia, sunni blowing ahamadiya, sunni blowing Sufi, sunni blowing christians….) in Pakistan because Pakistanis are worried about India developing “strategic depth” (whatever it means!) in Afghanistan..

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    @Shoeb

    First of all has spelling changed or is it just an error

    -3 Million Palestinians displaced
    - Countless killed in Bosnia–European Commission Report
    - Over 500,000 displaced in Checniya
    - 500,000 killed so far in Iraq and counting
    - More a million killed in Afghnaistan USSR, USA and NATO
    -80000 killed in Kashmir

    And you don’t expect backlash—-you better believe there will—it is only natural

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Azhar,

    That is why they (Bangladeshis) separated from you. They could not get mad about “every muslim thing in the world”, like you people do.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Azhar, asking for a small favour, would you kindly tell us uninformed bloggers what the hell american B52 STEALTH FIGHTER doing over the skies of sarajevo, and what were they dropping , packets from santa claus , and it that was so why was one of them shot down , causing the loss of radar evading stealth technolgy. also which court convicting Slovodan milosovic , and the others IS IT IN A SHARIA COURT IN PAKISTAN. your answer will be much appreciated.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan dont forget age old rivarly between protestant and catholics.orthodox were first christians like armenian.they owe lot to jews.jews always got shelter in muslim spain and islamic turkey.enjoyed full freedom and best of life like now on in emirates saudi arabia and istambol.

  • ram autar

    mr shan and mr hegde,How about 15 to 20% of the Indian Muslim population is reduced to grinding poverty, pushed to urban slums, daily facing war and violence was graphically depicted in the Sachar Committee report by an upper caste (Hindu).
    In 1971, the very same Brahminical rulers managed to get Pakistan divided by creating Bangladesh with the help of Mujibur Rahman.
    The thirst of this micro-minority Brahminical Social Order for blood is limitless. The killing of over 3,000 Sikhs in cold blood in “Blue Star” (1984), the anti-Mandal war and violence (1991), the demolition of Babri Masjid (1992), the “Gujarat Genocide” killing over 2,500 Muslims. It is an endless story of killing and blood-letting.
    When will their thirst for blood end.please tell me

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    CIA created this Jihad culture to kick out USSR from Afghanistan and Pakistan is paying the price.

    http://www.spur.asn.au/chronology_of_suicide_bomb_attacks_by_Tamil_Tigers_in_sri_Lanka.htm

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    @ Zia;
    So much hate mail in many posts not moderated and my post regarding Ravi and ram autar using fake names is censored, Why? Is your post only for greats like Ravi and ram autar, to give them space so they can spread their hate and rubbish??

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I wonder what Ram Autar does here. He is on a constant harp on how Hindus killed Budhists, and nothing more. Eventually he will make visitors disappear from Zia’s blog.

    Ravi at least presents appropriate and relevant arguments and positions

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Democracy and social justice have no place under Hinduism. But the country’s Constitution has forced the government to introduce some “socialist reforms”. But with the advent of liberalisation, privatisation and globalisation, even these concessions and reservations are disappearing. So we live under such serious contradictions and perpetual clash between the fascist ideology of Hinduism and the socialist slogans of the government forced by the country’s Constitution prepared by Dr. Ambedkar. The Constitution has given the Untouchables some paper “reservations” in jobs etc. but privatisation has killed even this little mercy.

    Untouchability (sanctified racism) among Hindus is thus a unique phenomenon unknown to humanity in any other part of the world. Nothing like it is to be found in any other society —primitive, ancient or modern. Sociologists and historians of India are not interested in the problems of Untouchables because they all belong to the upper caste. Nay. You will be laughed at and ostracised if you talk about it publicly

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    While I could ask you to cite instances of perversion, murder, infant burning, hawala dealing etc etc… let me ask a much simpler question

    check the report of gurat riots from 1969 onwards u will find i am right child burning before their parents is a game.only 2 years back a full family was burnt alive by rss goons in andhra.90%of hawala dealers are jains with rss mentality.
    rss is biggest centre of sodomy in india.i am from hindi belt most of f my friends are/were attach to rss(rumour spreading society).financial crime by rss is daily news.karnataka govt is example.ram sena is renting the riot.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ram, I have news for you.

    There are more Pakistannis, in absolute numbers, than Indians (at 10 times Pak population) registered and active in gay sites like Manjam, Gaydar, Planetromeo.

    Pakistanis (by default Muslims) were the largest number of visitors (according to google) to gay sites and beastiality sites. Google published this.

    Ditto in middle east.

    You will get a life when u unite with the 72 virgins…Looks like many of your buddies want 72 boys..per Google.

    ram autar Reply:

    raju kurien,

    i agree but if preachers make mistake.people get angree like in the case of nityanand.this time i for give for 72 bussines.next time awnser will be unbearable.

    ram autar Reply:

    Hinduism is so powerful that though an alien religion,being an Aryan import, it devoured every protest movement including the most liberating Budhism, which was destroyed and driven out of India over 2,000 years back. Brahmins led by the Adi Shankara literally slaughtered Budhists. Budhism today reigns in other parts of the world but not to be found inside India – except for a feeble attempt made by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the Saviour of the Untouchables and the new rising star of India, at the *** end of his life by himself embracing Budhism along with several millions of Untouchables.

    Efforts are being made to strengthen Hinduism —claiming it to be a religion of over 85% of Indians — and the government itself is actively helping the process making the Christians and Muslims nervous and making them feel that the Government in India is pro-Hindu. A fundamentalist Hindu nazi party called the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) is vigorously at it by fanning communal flames and periodically resorting to torture of Untouchables, Tribals, Muslims and Christians. The ultimate aim of the RSS is to clamp a class-caste fascist dictatorship, before which the Hitler’s nazi rule will pale into insignificance, crush the Untouchables and castrate the minorities

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj

    What makes you think that my name is fake.

    Would you have taken that view had my opinions been uncritical towards Hinduism.

    I doubt it.

    This forum is not the personal reserve of Right Wing Hindu Fascists.

    Read the points we make and do not personalise arguements, or else I will retaliate in Kind to you just as do that tight Lun Goat wearing Safforn Fundo Shan.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    @ Binoy
    The only difference is, Ravi uses better language as compared to ram autar, but the contents are same. My objection was that these two people, obviously muslims, why they are prending to be hindus with these fake names. I will welcome them with their original names minus the propaganda, they are indulging in. Any thought provoking ideas?, no no, the same old, 78 RPM record, which is by now totally jaded.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Hinduism is not only anti-democratic but anti-human. Even the Brahmins, the custodians of Hinduism, have not benefited materially from this suffocating religion. Hundreds of Brahmins have fled the “holy” India and settled in beef-eating “unholy” US, UK and Gulf countries. Quite a number of them are still complaining of their own poverty in India.

    Foreigners are likely to be deceived by the propaganda of nonviolence, the Gandhian ahimsa. But as representatives of the Untouchables, we would like to blast this myth. Nowhere in the world we can get a set of people who are more violent and blood-thirsty than the Hindus.

    Hinduism is no doubt dying. Christianity and Islam have a better future in India. Urbanisation and scientific development have set fire to the very citadel of Brahminism. But what keeps the dying Hinduism alive are the two main props: caste system and the karma theory — the belief in rebirth, predestiny.

    The Hindus talk about democracy and socialism but “majority rule” in India has resulted in majority tyranny on the minorities who are reduced to the level of second-rate citizens — a persecuted minority. India will soon plunge into a bloody communal and caste war.

    Christianity has helped millions of Untouchables to get liberation. The Tribals of the North-Eastern India are today a force to be reckoned with because of Christianity. All those who went over to Christianity are definitely better off than those who stuck to Hinduism. If Christianity has to attract more followers, it has to immediately set its house in order by getting rid of the caste within the church as far as possible. Secondly, it has to render all-out help to Untouchables and Tribals.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj

    Well said, almost every word you say applies to you and other HINDU FUNDOS.

    Their rants are irrationally any Islam.

    Regards

    Ravi (The real one)

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    will not give you importance by answering you on any point, you fake.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Thanks.

    One less ididot to deal with.

    Keep to it my islamophobe twerp.

    L Mirza Reply:

    Ram, I request you either to be on the blog subject, or to provide specific answer to a writer’s statement. Your constant ranting on unrelated items does not help you or Muslims…In fact, it reduces the stock value of Muslims..You are hurting their cause instead of helping.Upto you

    ram autar Reply:

    what can i do when others are blaming entire community for mistake of one somali or ****.while they are themselve victim of zoinism like innocent people of america.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Mirza,

    I find Ram to be the most spiritualistic person in the blog. Never bother to read the blog subject and give the corresponding input. Doesn’t bother, if his post matters to anybody (Many posts, he might not have read himself). Just calmly goes on with his job (Karma).. “copy paste”.
    “Karmanyevadhikarasthe maa phaleshu kadaachana..”

    Ram my request to you, please invade Gautam’s blog. He can have some gyan too!

    ram autar Reply:

    i know what i am writing dont need ur advise .need ur awnser.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Vinay,
    I first made Ram Autar’s acquaintance in Gautam’s blog; I have heard his rants before, many times over.
    Ram Autar has 2 kinds of posts:
    1. Cut and paste- from Dalit Voice or similar websites.
    2. Where he writes himself- typically those posts written on a mobile device, poorly constructed rants.
    Ram Autar disappeared from Gautam’s blog suddenly some months back and I feared :) I will never see him again and thereby miss his rants against Brahmins, Jews and Americans.
    So, I was really happy when he invaded Zia’s blog- I even did a short post welcoming him and assuring him he will meet a kindred soul here :-) one never posts on the topic, has the ability to pontificate on all subjects under the sun and of course has a different country than India as a point of reference- for one it is Saudi Arabia and the other is UK,? One learns science off the pages of Wikipedia, the other learns sociology from Dalit Voice. One quotes Max Weber the other quotes DT Rajsekhar/ Kancha Illaiah.
    “The Colonel’s Lady and Judy O’Grady are sisters under the skin”

    shan Reply:

    @vinay, ram autar, kindred spirit is found hovering this blog graduated from “cow belt university2 with dubious distinction and less than mediocre merit , and has envy the driving force ,a profound sense of inferiority complex ,whose intellect is so shallow , that it only can resort to one liners. gets riled whenever his envy and hollow mind is exposed by other bloggers.the complex of having graduated from a less than average university , unable to make it to top notch institutions of india may lie at the root of this paronia.

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay,
    “Though I perchance am vicious in my guess , as I confess it is my nature’s plague , to spy into abuses . O beware of jealousy , it is the green eyed monster , which doth mock , the meat it feeds on .that cuckold lives in bliss” . (From a book edited by jonathan bate, and eric rasmussen ,page 2120, pub macmillan)with apologies to the one who Ben Johnson , referred to as “sweet swan of avon” for taking liberties.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ashish

    What happened to SKS? I do not see him these days..

    ram autar Reply:

    The Druze people reside primarily in Syria, Lebanon, and Israel.

    they are tribe not militia.kamal jumblatt father of walid jumblatt was frequent visitor of india.
    The Druze are considered to be a social group as well as a religion, but not a distinct ethnic group. Also complicating their identity is the custom of Taqiya—concealing or disguising their beliefs when necessary—that they adopted from Shia Islam.but they are not shias more close to ismailis and ahmadiyas.

    i had lot of druze working for me.they are good handsome honest people.

    The faith was founded by Hamza ibn ‘Alī ibn Ahmad, a Persian Ismaili mystic and scholar. He came to Egypt in 1014 and assembled a group of scholars and leaders from across the Islamic world to form a new Unitarian movement. The order’s meetings were held in the Raydan Mosque, near the Al-Hakim Mosque.
    they are good fighters were instrumental in defeat of crusaders.

    Ashish Reply:

    @L Mirza,
    Fear not- no one in his right senses takes Ram Autar seriously- far less a serious representation of the Indian Muslim voice.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Gopi,
    I shall let SKS know you are missing him; we are in touch elsewhere..
    I think he basically got tired of covering the same ground over and over again

  • ram autar

    i hope hindu bussinesman will follow this great muslim.,India’s third-richest man, Wipro chairman Azim Premji, announced on Wednesday plans to invest substantial amounts of his money in social work. He plans to reduce his stake in the company by 8.7% by transferring 213 million shares to a trust for about Rs 8,846 crore. The trust has been created to fund various social and charity initiatives that are expected to increase significantly over the next few years, a Wipro statement said. It will work in the area of elementary education and focuses on rural areas.

    Premji is the chairman of the trust.

    The transfer, which will be completed by December 7, will effectively bring down Premji’s share in India’s third-largest software services company to 70.6% from the current 79.4%.

    “The trust (Azim Premji Foundation) is controlled by Premji and he will continue to retain voting rights of the transferred shares,” said the statement.

    This means the shares transferred continue to be defined as ‘promoter’s holding’. Premji’s promoter control will fall only if the shares are liquidated.

    Experts ruled out any immediate shortfall of liquidity in the market following the share transfer as Premji was be transferring the money to a trust that will sell shares only when funds are needed.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Azim Premji has set a great example for all business men to follow. Ambanis should be ashmed that they are building a 75 story (or whatever) $1billion house..

    Ram, I am with you on this.

    (if I can ask you– do you accept him as a Muslim… because he is Ismaili…If he was in Pakistan, will his mosque be burned??)

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ismailis are the direct descent of prophet mohammed.anybody who says that ,god is one and
    prophet mohammed is the last messager is muslim.prophet mohammed ia 10th and last avtar of lord vishnu.kalki bhagwan(he is messanger not god).go through ur upinashads compare description.he is also in bible though christians dont accept this.

    ambani follow the hindu value system.he will give DAKHSHINA to bhang eating druggist pujaris exchange this with PUNYA, instead of social upliftment of indian society.remaining wealth he will plunder or take to
    swiss bank.
    moghuls also like premjee never took a single penny out of country.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Today people of Jewish faith start the celebration of Hanukkah.

    I paste here a description from Wikipedia.

    ______________________________________________________________
    From the Hebrew word for “dedication” or “consecration”, Hanukkah marks the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem (Second Temple) after its desecration by the forces of the King of Syria Antiochus IV Epiphanes (time of the Maccabean Revolt of the 2nd century BCE) and commemorates the “miracle of the container of oil”. According to the Talmud, at the re-dedication following the victory of the Maccabees over the Seleucid Empire, there was only enough consecrated olive oil to fuel the eternal flame in the Temple for one day.

    Miraculously, the oil burned for eight days, which was the length of time it took to press, prepare and consecrate fresh olive oil.

    Hanukkah is also mentioned in 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees. The first states: “For eight days they celebrated the rededication of the altar. Then Judah and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the rededication… should be observed… every year… for eight days. (1 Mac. 4:56–59)” According to 2 Maccabees, “the Jews celebrated joyfully for eight days as on the feast of Booths.”

    The martyrdom of Hannah and her seven sons has also been linked to Hanukkah. According to a Talmudic story[2] and 2 Maccabees, a Jewish woman named Hannah and her seven sons were tortured and executed by Antiochus for refusing to eat pork, which would have been a violation of Jewish law.
    _____________________________________________________________

    Just goes to prove Religious persecution is nothing new and not just restricted to Islam.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    If you think these nuggets from a very far away historical past can defend modern Islamic practices – well, I have bad news for you; the train has already left the station.

    And one thing I do not understand about Muslims (may be the blog writing ones), why this rush to compare/justify etc instead of facing and solving..

    “Others persecuted zillion years ago. Hindus killed budhitsts. Muslims are exploding because of others. Germany is t fault if it shuts down immigration. US is at fault if it denies visa to Zia…….ad nauseum.”..makes one puke.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I think you missed my point, so I will re-itterate it.

    Persecution of one group of people by another group is as old as mankind. It is neither new nor restricted to Islam.

    When we oppose such persecutions then we should oppose oppression, no matter what its source rather than count the Muslim oppresions while ignoring the Hindu, and other ones.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    No, I do not get you. The issue being discussed is Western government change in treatment of Muslims, visa restrictions etc.. and not who persecuted who when.

    In today’s world, words like “pakistani”, “muslim”, “Islam” “jehadi” send revulsion, fear, avoidance, distancing by people across the globe.

    Words liek “Indian”, “budhist” “Hindu” “yoga” “meditation” “Christian” etc does not send those megatives.

    And more importantly, the firstb group of words, for all practical purposes, were like the second group of words until ten years ago..

    Ravi Reply:

    In that case, I have nothing further to add.

  • shan

    Ravi Naik, twin of Zakir, * In January 2008, a spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that the Government would consider the abolition of the blasphemy laws during the passage of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. The Government consulted with the Church of England and other churches before reaching a decision. The move followed a letter written to The Daily Telegraph at the instigation of MP Evan Harris and the National Secular Society and was signed by leading figures including Lord Carey, former Archbishop of Canterbury, who urged that the laws be abandoned.1
    * In March 2008 Peers voted for the laws to be abandoned.1
    * On May 8 2008, the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 abolished the common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel in England and Wales, with effect from 8 July 2008.1

    NOW THIS IS YOUR BIRTHPLACE PAKISTAN
    Dr. Shaikh was accused to have defied Prophet Muhammed with his statement that Muhammed did not become a Muslim before the age of forty and that his parents were non-Muslims. Dr. Shaikh was found guilty and convicted under the law that prescribes death sentence if charges of blasphemy are proved. This law was added to the Pakistan Penal Code in 1986 which said whoever made derogatory remarks about Prophet Muhammed “by words either spoken, or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of Holy Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.

    AT THE PRESENT MOMENT RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN SCOPE AND NUMBER IS EXCLUSIVELY RESTRICTED TO ISLAM

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    As soo as you make a point I will answer.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    MR SHAN ,

    DR SHEIKH IS RIGHT BUT STUPIDS ARE EVERYWHERE.THIS IS NOT SOLE PROPRIETY OF MUSLIMS.HOLY QURAN DESCENDED ON HIM AT THE AGE OF 40.durzis of lebnon teach quran (whom they call al hikma)after age of 40.
    if u have objection on the lectures of dr naik.write him.religious people are never communal.those who study western education become slave of evils.
    .

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ram Autar, very interesting ,when you say durjis do you mean DRUZE militia , the leader of which is Wali Zumblatt.(O hell what will happen to that salesman from cowbelt university , go even green , like the incredible hulk). now I have read they are shia and were driven out of egypt , if it is correct , please feed me with more information about these Druze religious practices.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I beg to totally dis-agree.

    Hindu persecution of Dalits, Bahujan’s, and OBC are far greater in proportion than any Muslim persecution. It is systematic and endemic.

    You dont see the former because you are a Hindu Fundo and a crypto fascist.

    You see the second because you are an Islamophobe.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, the ISI agent, when we are speaking about persecution we are talking about STATE PERSECUTION , the INDIAN STATE IS MASSIVELY BENEVOLENT TOWARDS THE DALITS AND MUSLIMS WITH POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION ,MUSLIM PERSONAL (right to oppress) LAW etc.
    Their is no denying there is PREJUDICE at social level, but there is no persecution.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN THE CRYPTO FASCIST.

    Tell that to the dying Dalit, that his country loves him, just most of its citizen don’t.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Ravi

    A case like “Aasia Bibi” will never happen in any other country in modern times other than in Islamic countries like Pakistan.

    You can run with Dalits; but Dalits are running away from you. They want developmenet, as they have shown in Bihar election.

    Time to get out of the “dalit” wagon- The most populous and the most Dalit state , UP< has been run by Mayawati, a dalit. Karunanidhi (g2 Spectrum), a dalit, has been running Tamil Nadu for thirty plus yers as his personal family owned business.

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I am ahead of you. Now your turn to get out of the Islamophobic band wagon.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan is right — he should have used the words Islamic countries, instead of Islam

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    India is a secular country, al be it not a perfect one. That is wy the state impliments positive discrimination proggreames against Dalits and other minorities.

    Islamic states are not Secular and I am not here to defend any Islamic state.

    ram autar Reply:

    BENOY AS PER GEETA killing of women is not sin.india is only country of region where women are lesser than men.thousands of assia bibi are roaming on india street like un attended cows.
    assia bibi now married second wife of good muslim who give her love and money which is her right.

    Kunal Reply:

    ya maybe your version of the geeta…

    geeta is not the koran with multiple versions….

    the whole world knows which religion treats their women badly ….your post in a blog read by 10 people is not going to change much.

    Ravi Reply:

    HINDU FUNDO ALI SHAN.

    Since you steadfastly refused to see the attrocties commited by Upper Caste HINDUS against SC/OBc/Tribals/Dalits.

    Here I will make it convinient for you. This is just a small proportion of the list. I dont wish to make the scroll too long for others.

    These are JUST SOME of the Crimes committed on Dalits from April 2000 to December 2002, reported in National Daily’s. Hundreds of Such crimes go unreported. If you find any such crimes happening in your neighbourhood, please send the details of such crimes to us. dalits@ambedkar.org

    Please check this page for updates. Meanwhile THINK what YOU can do to stop this madness.

    • Exclusive Report:Five Dalits Lynched in Haryana (06 Nov)

    • Dalit elopes with Jat girl, death stalks Haryana village (30 Oct)

    • Untouchability, The Dead Cow And The Brahmin (23 Oct)

    • A Dalit damned for defying her village (07 Aug)

    • Dalit burnt alive, tension brews in Mansura village (29 May)

    • Pakistani Dalits protest genocide of Dalits (29 May)

    • Dalit hanged for having illicit ties (15 May)

    • 6 Dalits shot dead in Bihar (09 May)

    • Dalit houses attacked in Salem village (02 May)

    • Attack on Dalit youth in Bellary (26 Apr)

    • Dalits face wrath of upper castes in UP village (24 Apr)

    • Dalit teenager raped in Rajasthan (24 Apr)

    - 18-year-old girl raped, murdered (21 Mar)

    – Dalit mother raped for son’s ‘criminal’ affair
    Tragic end to inter-caste marriage.

    Should you wish to read more then go here, and here, and here.

    http://www.ncdhr.org.in/esdi/2-dalit-houses-are-destroyed

    http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-dalit-atrocities-and-brutality-against-dalits-in-india.html

    http://www.zimbio.com/World+Politics/articles/IjF4QCqqDQo/Rajastan+Vs+Bihar+Blood+Thirsty+hindus+Dalit
    __________________________________________________________________

    SO OPEN YOUR ISLAMOPHOBE EYES AND LOOK AT YOUR OWN RELIGION BEFORE YOU START ACCUSING OTHERS.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    So, what is your point? How is this related to the non-issuance of visas/banning of Muslims from western countries?

    Does the state do anything against dalits? Were they not allowed to file cases? Isnt UP governed by a Dalit? Dont Dalits have political powerr and power of representation? Has anybody denied that?

    Were they in rural areas or did all these happen in metro areas? Because if we have these issues in Bangalore and Mumbai, then w ehave many more miles to go.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Yes we have many miles to go…..don’t ask me……ask a Dalit as to how it feels to be one. Walk a mile in their shoes and then you will know.

    All I am saying is that before we start talking about Islam is this, it is a creed, it s rotten to the core, it is imposed by a Paedo and a moon lover etc etc, all bollocks.

    We need to look closer to home, and see what is wrong with one of the most reformed religions of the world and see what still needs to be reformed.

    However, some people here have an anti Muslim agenda and therefore they do not entertain such critical views. They lay it in because that is what their designated role is. Othering Muslims.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    You are absolutely wrong.

    A dalit has probplems; but he does not explode.

    A Muslim explodes because of problems somewhere else..

    DAlit can become chief minister Imayawati et al), Chief justice ( Balakrishnan), President (Narayanan)., successful businessmen, (Sam Pitroda), professors…

    Education is the leveler.. Govt should ensure educational opportunities are wide and accessible

    There is no Hindu hierarchy where a “Pope” or the Mullah of Deobandi school wave a wand..

    And really speaking — if Dalits in independent india after 60 years are screaming (which they are not; Muslims are screaming for them), it is their own fault.

    We do have a BIMARU states problem.. where all , not only Dalits, are backward.

    We will take thjis subjecyt in teh appropriate blog. This blog is about why Muslims are banned from western countries, why visa is becoming tough, what caused them to turn their back .. It is not the ill treatment of Dalits by certain segment of the people.

    .

    Ravi Reply:

    Thanks for this.

    I will let the readers make their own mind about this.

    It is not worth any real comment.

    ram autar Reply:

    Similarly, through the thick morning smog caused by coal burning stoves, Muslim artisans of Moradabad are making their way to forge raw brass into shiny objects.

    ram autar Reply:

    ALL ABOVE NUISANCE IS PART OF THEIR RELIGION.IT IS NOT SIN.ALL THEIR MAHARAJS AND SHANKARACHARYAS HAVE GONE TO JAIL FOR RAPE,MURDER OR MONEY SWINDLING.

    KRIPALU JEE MAHARAJ LIVE NEAR MY PLACE.2 TIMES HE HAS GONE TO JAIL FOR RAPING WOMEN BUL NOTHING HAPPENED.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Peaceful coexistence

    Today as the sun rises over the Eastern Bank of Ganges, it beautifully silhouettes the myriad of temples which adorn the holi ghats in Varanasi. Its inhabitants are readying themselves for work. Today, is like any other day. Lakhs of Muslim weavers will busy themselves creating un-paralleled works of art, which you and I know as Banarasi Sari. Many many Hindu traders will take the fruit of their labour and distribute it, not only all around India, but also to the four corners of the world. This harmonious relationship has developed over centuries and even concerted efforts of destructive communal forces have not been able to break it. Varanasi is at peace with itself.

    Similarly, through the thick morning smog caused by coal burning stoves, Muslim artisans of Moradabad are making their way to forge raw brass into shiny objects.

    Although Horse has not historically thrived in India, but the Saddle Makers of Kanpur, almost all of Islamic faith have stitched themselves a world class reputation. Their saddles are sold all around the world.

    Jain seths in Jodhpur, and Jaipur are very glad to see their Mulsim Dyers, Bleachers, and Fabricators arrive at their work-shops, a big delivery for Primark is running a bit late and the buyer is coming soon for an inspection.

    Life in these and many other mixed communities, in Agra, Ajmer, Allahbad, Alwar, Aurngabad, etc is just as it has been for decades if not centuries.

    However, reading comments in this blog leaves one to wonder if the effect of Isamic Terrorism is such that it is crippling life as we know it or just that a few newsaholic individuals have allowed themselves to whip up a frenzy which is totally out of proportion to ground reality.

    I think it is neither, I think this forum is providing those who already hold very strong anti Islamic feelings, an opportunity to express their unsubstantiated anti Muslim views.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Noobody disputes any of these.

    In fact Bimillah khan, the legendary musician, started his day with prayers to Ganges. He lived in Benares all his life.

    You may consider Islamic terrorism only as a nuisance. Neither westerners, nor Western governments do think that way. It is numero ono in US. Zias subject is western immigration/multikluti..

    Indians should be very concerned about Islamic terrorism. Pakistan is almost a failed state and theer are all sorts of Jehadi/army/ISi collaboration there. Another 11/26 will force India for a war with Pakistan and it can be deadly with both countries.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Not sure what you mean that Western Governmnets are treating Islamic Terrorism is Numero Uno.

    So you think Daily life as I described above, for Germans, Brits and French is any different.

    Let me assure you that they are going about normal Business just as they were yesterday, last year, last decade and a century ago.

    People take such things in their stride.

    Only people in this blog seem to be agitated about this.

    All western countries are VIGILANT and not VIGILANTE.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    BINOY WE ARE LIKE THIS.WE ARE PROVIDING EMPLOYMENT TO 20 MILLION HINDUS.BRHMN BANIA NEXUS IS SUCKING THEIR BLOOD.BRHMNS IS FAR BIGGER TERRORISM THAN ISLAMIC TERRORISM.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    moradabad trade was invented and started by MORAD son of aurangzeb on his instruction.which provided thousands of jobs to indian.and oppotunity to banias to flourish.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    “ISRAEL-FIRST” THEOLOGY ALLOWS ISRAEL
    TO COMMIT ANY ATROCITY
    By Rev. Ted Pike
    18 Nov 10

    Today most evangelical Christians remain silent after more than 60 years of Israeli injustice and brutality against Palestinians. Many praise Israel more enthusiastically than ever! This includes the millions who fanatically follow Zionist pastor John Hagee. Is there any Israeli outrage (maybe starting nuclear war?) that could cause evangelicals to disapprove of the Jewish state? Shockingly, no. The dominant theology of evangelicals today—Calvinism—leads Christians to the belief that we must not “curse” God’s chosen people with criticism, no matter what they do.

    Such incredible, unscriptural forbearance is rooted in centuries of a Calvinist heresy described as antinomianism. Most Christians don’t know what this concept is. They should, because they are probably under its heretical influence. This false theological premise endangers true Christianity itself and, through support of Israel, also endangers the Mideast and the whole world.

    In Greek, “anti” means against and “nomos” means law. Antinomianism means “against law.” Historically, antinomianism was an early cult of Christianity. Theologically, this concept says God’s grace alone saves His elect whether they are obedient or not. The two most outstanding examples today are Calvinism, teaching a person once saved is always saved, and Christian Zionism, with its doctrine that Christ-rejecting Jews still receive God’s blessing and right to occupy a land dedicated to holiness. Christian Zionism is a direct product of Calvinism. It gives the Jewish nation the same immunity from moral judgment that the “sinning saint” enjoys.

    To most people, such pseudo-theology is patently unjust. Concerning salvation, it sentences one unsaved adulterer to the torments of hell forever yet rewards another adulterer with eternal bliss simply because he once accepted Christ as His Savior. How has this dogma persuaded so many? It appeals to many believers because it seems to exalt God. It says Christ’s sovereignty must be absolute. Thus, He arbitrarily selects whom to save and to damn. Having elected a few to salvation and most to perdition, Christ chooses for each a fate no one can escape despite their “choices,” which are not really viable, since, according to Calvinism, there is no free will. If we know we have been chosen by God (through a genuine “born-again” experience), then we cannot escape our destiny for heaven. God will have us there, practically whether we like it or not. His grace is irresistible, say Calvinists. No sin committed by the truly “born-again” can separate God’s “elect” from salvation. The harshest punishment will be a lesser reward in paradise.

    Calvinists misquote Romans 8:39, “Nothing shall separate us from the love of God.” Actually it says, “No created thing shall separate us, etc.” If there is one thing Scripture teaches, it is that sin is something we create and it surely does separate us eternally from our Maker! There is one loophole: If an ostensibly born-again believer’s sins become outrageously evil, Calvinists proclaim he was never really saved in the first place.

    Yet, rather than such a hypocrite deserving full blame, it is Calvinism itself which is most culpable because it excused his sin from the beginning. The one who sins becomes the slave of sin, resulting in iniquity that escalates out of control.

    Sin is not properly defined as every error or weakness of being human. It is conscious rebellion against the known will of God. Dismissing this correct definition, Calvinism trivializes sin for the believer, describing “occasional” sin as a normal, everyday occurrence. In supposedly upholding Christ’s power, it thus opens a barn door of antinomian license to sin that stimulates the very wickedness that our own decisions, Christ’s power, and right doctrine are more than able to prevent.

    A True Concept of God’s Sovereignty

    Calvinism, with its image of Divine coercionoverriding the free will of man, chooses a very human, fleshly way to exalt Christ. People have been in awe of dictators like Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin for the same brute force.

    It is actually Christ’s incredible, self-sacrificing love, a moral virtue, that inspires true worship. He denied Himself and His infinite status and power to be born in a cow barn, suffer and die to ransom us from sin. In astonishing love, He calls us to voluntarily become His family forever.

    Correct thinking about Christ’s sovereignty produces joy, love and incentive to reject evil. It transforms our hearts through trust in Christ’s shed blood so we hate to displease Him. We are Christ’s spiritual bride. We adore Him, the great Lover of our souls, and thus joyfully give Him our whole lives. We know that daily fulfilling His requirement of trust and obedience to the best of our ability is not unreasonable. In the simplicity of childlike trust, we find “the peace that passes understanding” (Phil. 4:7). If we rebel and reject His love, we know He has every right to reject and punish us eternally.

    Christ, in His sovereign foreknowledge, already knows who will freely humble themselves to be saved. He arranges circumstances to bring that person to salvation. This is true election or predestination: Christ saving us as we cooperate with our free wills. It is a salvation responding to the enormity of His self-denying love for us—a magnitude of kindness that makes us want to become His love slaves forever. Such deliverance is through His initiative alone; and, although our free wills cooperate, we have nothing of which to boast.

    How Zionism Flies On Calvinist Wings

    True thinking about God’s sovereignty creates a just view of salvation based on individual response to God, and it also creates a just and righteous view of Israel. It assures us that righteous descendants of Abraham—true Jews who do the works of their father Abraham—will someday inherit the Promised Land. But it makes no room for blind endorsement of a racial covenant. It gives evil Jews no privilege to dispossess and abuse Palestinians simply because Jews are “God’s chosen people,” just as Christians have no right to go to heaven while sinning.

    The antinomian errors of Calvinist theology may seem complex, but the way they empower the establishment of Israel is simple. A hundred years ago, western Christian leaders believed (as they still do) that Jews possess divine privileges as the original “covenant” people with God. Just as sin can’t separate the once saved Christian from heaven, so Jewish sin can’t nullify their unconditional right to Palestine! Abraham’s covenant, said evangelicals, did not promise heaven to the wicked Jew, but it did promise Palestine. It did promise special protection from the “curse” of criticism.

    Do you think errors in Christian doctrine don’t matter? This ancient doctrinal misconception about the nature of God’s sovereignty, compounded from St. Augustine to Calvin to Hagee, gives frightening license to Israel to do absolutely anything it wants! This has led to geopolitical ramifications for the whole world and to grave moral compromise for the church.

    As Israel is clearly mocking attempts at Mideast peace and covertly encouraging even more expulsions of Arabs, we may see further massacre of Palestinians (as happened in 1948) so Israel can “ethnically cleanse” Palestine, rebuild its Jewish temple, and ultimately receive its messiah. But theological insanity will continue to forbid Calvinist believers from ever criticizing and opposing Israel—unless Christians rediscover true doctrine about the conditional terms of salvation and of Jewish occupation of Palestine. Without such revival, evangelicals’ silence will continue, even when they look into the cold gun barrels of a Zionist firing squad.

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    “Is West turning its back on ‘multi-kulti’” is the wrong question. The right question should have been “Is west becoming more anti-Muslim/Islam”..

    Kunal mentioned about his fear when he travels in the train. Individuals like Kunal are in fear. At a macro level western countries are in big fear 1) fear of a 9/11 type terrorist attack itself and 2) fear of the politicians/administrations of the people/voter/political backlash if an attack happens. In this context, instead of picking and choosing (and then monitoring), countries put broader immigration controls banning Muslims altogether, or tight visa regime for select countries etc.

    A recent statistic put out by the US indicated that an immigration officer can process 13 visitors from other countries while it takes to process one single Pakistani visitor. I bet that is true in all countries. Can anybody blame US or the other countries for being extra careful and putting extra processes in screening Pakistanis?

    The behaviour of the western world (and other countries) will not change until Islamic terrorism ebbs. May be today’s world would have been different if the country of Pakistan was not on the map. But the terrorists trained, controlled, originated, and conncted there have made Western governments relook into immigartion, integration, visa process, visa denial for a whole religion………

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    The behaviour of the western world (and other countries) will not change until Islamic terrorism

    what about red indians ,jews of europe and indians and other colonies.pak was made like this to fight communists.

    west has to change.we are honest and tolerant.they have to amend their cow-boy character.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    That is not the issue or question. It is the present and now.

    The fact is Islamic Terrorism = Western Travel restrictions/visa restrictions/ discrimination/labelling whole community etc etc etc …that is the fact; nothing, no rationalization/explanation will change

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    Exactly right. And why should they waste their time and effort in processing applications from Pakistan. Migration needs money…it’s not free. Most western countries encourage migration because they need skills. Why would they waste their time if they have to do a lot more background checks.

    And then there is additional trouble when they enter the country…they fight for mosques, want to wear headscarfs in school, burqas in public. All this is fine with me but the local public feels very xenophobic about this and then the ministers think that it’s just additional burden to deal with.

    And no matter how many background checks you do, it can’t filter out people who will be brainwashed after they enter the country.

    All muslims aren’t at fault, but it’s just a risk to let them migrate. Not everybody is ready to take that risk.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    kunal what about ur sari and bindia.there is group in usa which is called DOT KILLER.sometime they act also.america and west nedd muslims more than we need them.
    jobs in muslim countries are more lucrative than in usa.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    by now i think i am confident that you are just not smoking pipe…you are also on some really heavy chemicals like vitamin k , the horse anaesthetic

    lol the west needs muslims more than we need them …

    shan Reply:

    @Ram autar, @Ram Autar, very interesting ,when you say durjis do you mean DRUZE militia , the leader of which is Wali Zumblatt.(O hell what will happen to that salesman from cowbelt university , go even green , like the incredible hulk). now I have read they are shia and were driven out of egypt some hundreeds of years ago , if it is correct , please feed me with more information about these Druze religious practices.

    [Reply]

  • DUDE

    Hey Muzzo muslims…………….

    you don’t know what multiculturalism is………….all you muzzos want is to marry your sisters, worship a peado, take land which is not yours and to convert all non muslims!

    go to arabia you sold out converted weak ancestral indian beggers!

    pak belongs to me! so does india so does srilanka and nepal and afghan!

    get rid of islam from india and get rid of that corrupt taj mahal ****!

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    shan,
    YOGA IA HINDU HUMBUG,

    Beware of yoga. It is the other word for hinduising (enslaving) the unthinking fellows. No Muslim country has allowed the infiltration of yoga, which is nothing but deep-breathing — but in a closed, congested room.

    China is fully aware of the Brahminical poison. Yoga is barred.

    Early morning walk: The Brahminical people are actively assisted by the Jews in the West, particularly the USA, to set up yoga centers and gradually poison the Christian mind. The Vatican, the Roman Catholic headquarters, is fully aware of the tricks of the “Jews of India” who are in league with the Jews.

    If you want to do deep breathing take a brisk early morning walk (or even run) which helps you take plenty of pure oxygen that will fill your lung. I DO it daily. But if you fall a prey to the yoga guru humbug you will be huddled inside a closed, congested room and you have to inhale the dirty breath of others. It is advertised as a sure cure to reduce your weight. Nonsense. If you want to reduce your weight the best cure is start running and reduce eating. Simple.

    Yoga is a big business in India and abroad. Being expensive it brings a huge income to our enemies besides hinduising (enslaving) the non-Hindu.Don’t believe all the **** and bull stories sold by the Brahminical toilet papers saying “yoga will upgrade your efficiency”. Nonsense

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    lol ram autar seems to be forever smoking pot and hallucinating it seems.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    kunal ,only things u people have to offer to world is KAMASUTRA.all others are nothing but fraud.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    as i said before …you seem to be hallucinating and living in your own fairy tales. you might be the next perfect candidate for a brainwashed suicide bomber. lol and this is even after you have access to the truth.

    pitiful.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    ram autar,
    you roache, showing that you are worried about North korea, have you any idea about north korea? living in slums of okhala, and talking as you have seen world. North koreans , population, is nothing more than zhombies, barely surviving, when their master communists are living in luxury. why do not you migrate to north korea? there, by this time, you would have been caught by scruff of your neck and shot. understand? Living in india and barking continuously, pretending to be an intellectual, while in reality, you are a madarsa educated low life.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    ram autar;
    Dhuan nikal raha hai? yoga is billion dollar enterprise. lots of muslims going for it. but ofcourse, you will remain ensconsed in your namaz.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    yoga is billion dollar enterprise

    entire hinduism is enterprize filled with frauds.it is loot not service ,which is target.european excersizes are far better.but they dont attach these to jesus christ.my brothers goes to yoga.
    he is old.we the youth of modern india ,prefer to practice on girls.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    starting with bua ki ladki and mausi ki ladki at home. Wah wah.
    this is called incest. You creep.

    ram autar Reply:

    to practice on girls.
    pankaj our zee news starts with gang rape.everyday this is main news items.]

  • Binoy Hegde

    A “gift” that goes on giving! And zia wonders why Muslims application for visas get rejected; or why some from specific countries cannot immigrate…

    Thursday, DEc 2- US Treasury today announced he freezing of assets of three Pakistani Muslim men , connected to “high” level terrorism – Amanullah Afridi, Mati ul Rehman, Abdul rauf Azhsar. They are behind the logistical support for past and palnned terrorist attacks in Europe, US (and you guessed it India!)

    All the three are connected to LeT, JEM,a nd AL Queda

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    well, Pakistan is an existential threat to India also.

    The big issue is who is Pakistan/ Is it Gilani/Zardari, is it Kayani, is it ISI.. Looks like even US does not know who is in powe.r The fact, whoever is in power, is that there is an unholy alliance between Muslim Extremists, ISI and the army. All the terror groups are protected to use against India.

    India should move away from “political correctness” “vote bank politics” and prosecute aggressively externally and internally.

    Europe and US do not have e Pakistan on its border. But they are concerned about the terrorism emnating from that wreteched country, and taking actions including revisiting immigration rules. India has Pakistan next door; India has to be even more vigilant. For the extremists Indians are worse kauffers and infidels than Europeans,

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    brhmncl india is hated by all its neighbour.starting from hindu nepal to communist china to budhhdist
    lanka.hate is our duty.as per geeta WAR IS A DIVINE ACT.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    You are confusing strategic relationships for hate. Hate is what the whole world feels against Pakistan.

    ram autar Reply:

    Hate is what the whole world feels against Pakistan.

    pakistan has killed maximum no.of terrorists.now thereis cautious sympathy.america is the biggest donour of pakistan.we hate everybody.pakistan is no exception.as it is our duty.

    ram autar Reply:

    THESE MINOR THINGS WILL HAPPEN.NOTHING COMPARE TO CARPET BOMBING OF KOREA WHICH KILLED 30%OF ITS POPULATION.or carpet bombing on retreating iraqi forces forces from kuwait which killed 150000 in a night.mainly civilian staff.or pauperizing of americans
    and waging wars everywhere.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    lol 150,000 in a night …what rubbish do you waste your time with ?

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    it was not published by zoinist.oil wells were put on fire to distract fighter planes.can be verified by indian embassy in kuwait.

    2.3 million infants also died in 7 years because of embargo on children medicine.

    Kunal Reply:

    Ya it wasn’t published. So what you dreamt of it ? Or did you go yourself to Iraq and see it happening lol.

    ram autar Reply:

    Ya it wasn’t published. So what you dreamt of it ? Or did you go yourself to Iraq and see it happening lol.

    kunal i live 100 miles from border.lot of my friends work both side of border.this news also came but not in main media.reason unknown,they allowed republican guards to escape but civilian convoy faced ,carpet bombing..there is only one road.

  • ram autar

    Brahminism is the other word for corruption. It begins from the top and the disease gradually spreads to the bottom.

    When the rulers talk of “corruption”, what they mean is only the “money corruption” — though it is the least harmful of the four varieties of corruption.

    (1) Intellectual corruption, (2) caste corruption, (3) moral corruption and (4) money corruption.

    ALL-INDIA RECORD
    Money corruption is the last and the least dangerous form of corruption.
    Look, the latest target of money corruption, which has crossed all previous records, is the Karnataka Brahmin, Suresh Rao Kalmadi, member of Lok Sabha from Pune.

    KALMADI STRENGTH COMES FROM MANU
    All the political parties including the ruling Congress, entire media, all the so-called “civil society” (we don’t know where it is and who its members are) have unanimously said the culprit Kalmadi’s head must be cut in the all-India corruption record established in the forthcoming Delhi Commonwealth Game (CWG) which is not going to start on the scheduled date because of the Kalmadi atrocities.

    But Kalmadi said no. He said he was totally innocent. From where does he get the courage to defy the unanimous verdict on his corruption? His Jati.

    Because he knows whatever may be his corruption, or his crimes, his jati will not let him down. Never in the history of India, a Bhoodevata was punished because the Manu Dharma Sastra says the Brahmin shall commit no crime. Kalmadi’s courage stems from Manu. This is the secret.

    But see the other side of the picture. This culprit Kalmadi was fully defended by the Govt. itself in the Lok Sabha on Aug.10, 2010 even as all the members including the fellow Congress MPs were baying for his blood.

    What is the meaning of this stout defence of the proven crimes of Kalmadi? Why the mighty Govt. of India itself is afraid to touch this king of the corrupt? His jati. This is the secret. Who has the courage to touch a Brahmin?

    Did not a Chitpavan Brahmin kill the “Father of the Nation” (not our nation) and his jati distributed sweets all over India?

    CORRUPT ARE POPULAR & RESPECTED
    Jati is also the strength of Dr. Ketan Desai, chairman of the Medical Council of India who was finally arrested just for namesake and once bigger Brahminical corruptions burst on the scene, Ketan Desai crimes will be forgotten and then quietly released.

    Corruption is the other word for Brahminism. Corruption of all the four varieties were taught to the rest of India by its principal perpetrators. Corruption today is not confined to politicians though they are the principal targets because there are hardly any Brahmin politicians.

    The virus has spread to all sections, including Dalits and Muslims who have embraced it only to save themselves from the clutches of their Brahminical enemies. Because if you are corrupt, you will be liked by all the sections including the ruling Brahminists.

    India perhaps gets the first rank in the world for corruption. If the non-Brahmin sections have become corrupt it is because they learnt it from their eldest brother.

    India’s Brahmin-dominated society is stinking with corruption. Private sector is equally corrupt.

    Corruption is the other word for Brahminism. Once this tiny 2% Brahminical rulers cease to be corrupt India will be free from corruption.

    To achieve such a clean, healthy society Brahminism has to be destroyed. But there is a big if. Brahminism cannot go as long as there is the Brahmin.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    Maybe your should also go and search social reformists like Vinoba Bhave, Justice Ranade, Bhandarkar, and others if you are so against Brahmins.

    There are countless Brahmins who have themselves fought against the Dalit casteism.

    As for Nathuram Godse – that has nothing to do with caste, he killed Gandhi for the sake of the country.

    As again you are hallucinating, dreaming and twisting facts for your own benefit. Half of what you type can’t be considered as truth.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    brhmns are cheat and murderers.they were cleaning shoes of british occupiers and moghuls before,historically as per advice of kautilya ,they invited foreign invaders,now multinationals.that.they are traitors since their arrivals on indian soil.there was no reason for the murder of mahatama.he was insisting for pak share of money to be given to them.what was wrong.most of chitpavans are homosexuals and hate filled.this includede savarkar as well.
    cheating and eating others money cannot be considered deshbhakti.this is brhmnsm.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    the basic anger was,because of ghandhi ,britishers handed over power to nehru instead of rss.that is why they ignited the blood bath of 1947.and series of communal roits afterwards and now bomb planting bussines.

    Ravi Reply:

    Kunal

    I would agree that there are many Brahmins who have done good for all. I am a great fan of Vinobha Bhave.

    However, I dis-agree with your contention that Nathu Ram Godse Killed Gandhi for the sake of the country. He murdered Gandhi for the sake of HINDUISM. Or are you one of those people who do not distinguish between India and Hinduism.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    godse was jealous because britishers handed over power to congress instead of rss.
    their first dream to hoist the flag of chitpavan imperialism was diminshed by ahmad shah abdali in the 3rd batlle of panipat.on 1947 also they failed inspite of cleaning the boots of british robbers for 50 years.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    That is crazy. It was a political murder, murder by one group that did not like the idea of partitining India; and put Gandhiji responsible for the partition and carnage after.

    ram autar Reply:

    like the idea of partitining India; and put Gandhiji responsible for the partition and carnage after.

    idea to partition india came first from savarkar followed by lala lajpat rai.gandhi was last to agree to it after hindu zoinists started communal roits in a planned way.

    mr hegde i agree that ghandhi murder was political.but pain of loosing delhi was really great.

    Kunal Reply:

    He did not kill for Hinduism, he killed Gandhi because he believed in Akhand Bharat. He thought rightly that Gandhi would give in to other groups like Jinnah’s and fast for other partitions. Godse didn’t mind Jinnah being the Prime Minister so he wasn’t against Muslims.

    ram autar Reply:

    mr kunal i am not against brhmns ,i am against brhmnsm.brhmns too are victims of this hate
    ideology.

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    Why dont you demand that Saudi, Pakistan and all other Islamic countries change their laws, constitution and also debate on how well they treat their own minorities. SOBs like you are part of “grand jihad”

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    this is not me :)
    some other person with the same “handle”- my handle has my balding pate, visible :P

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    Second you. Pakistan is nearer to us than Germany. More Indians work in Gulf than Germany. He should have debated them first.

    As I said early, Multi-Kulti should only exist in liberal countries. Arundhati Roys will only exist in India. Not in Kashmir. But then, we still prefer to be in India with a nuisance Roy than a Kashmir without Roys. We wish for a liberalism, without publicity hungry HR activists. If it is too ideal to achieve, we will compromise with these people (who always find fault) rather than authoritative rulership.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr vinay,from the days of socrates west was rcialist.still they are.genetic habits dont go easily.
    west wanted cheap labour from their colonies.to attract them ,they were talking of great values.
    why german armies are part of nato troops in afghanistan.what wrong afghans have done to them.
    alqaida is basically against saud family.they are not originally from saudi arabia.originally jew.
    alqaida is local arab.fighting for their rights.american jews are with saud family.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ignorance is bliss . laws of all above countries are based on reason not religion.minorities there are fully protected.not like india.people like thakre and modi will loose their heads in seconds.

    [Reply]

    Kunal Reply:

    thackerays and modis don’t go after minorities. they don’t like the appeasement of minorities for political gain. the minorities are also at fault in this matter. not just in india but in many other countries.

    minorities take unfair advantage…as if they are being disadvanted by the majority and then face the wrath of the majority which starts hating them.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    thakeray is against hindu of gujrat and south.modi is telli hence bandar of brhmns.his deeds are known to world.america has denied visa to him.

  • http://news4bangla.com/ Kunal

    lol ram_autar doesn’t just smoke pipe…he seems to be some dalit whose a-s-s got kicked by a brahmin…and he is venting out his frustation on this blog.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    The world has just learnt the official announcement of China becoming the world’s second most powerful economy, overtaking Japan. But the Hindu rulers of India, who have kept the over 85% of its slaves crushed, are least bothered about the failing health of the country. Because they say the country does not belong to them as they are Aryans, aliens and invaders.

    They say their job is to rule India at any cost and they have been successfully doing it since centuries.

    BAHUJANS HAVE NO ENEMY
    In 1962, China crushed India in a border war and even after about 48 years the border dispute remains unsolved. On one side the Indian rulers are spending so much on “defending” Kashmir where the local people are on perpetual revolt. On the other side it is spending its resources on guarding the Himalayan borders against China. And fighting Pakistan.

    A major portion of the Indian tax-payers money is being diverted to defence expenditure, further depriving funds meant for the food, clothing and shelter of the 85% indigenous Bahujan have-nots.

    OUR MONEY DIVERTED TO WAGE WARS
    Since the West, led by its Jewish hate-mongers are against China but chummy with the ruling “Jews of India” it is very difficult to get at the truth in this series of conflicts between India and China, Pakistan, Kashmir.

    The native Bahujans are peace-lovers. They are poverty-stricken, illiterate and devoid of health care.

    But the ruling micro-minority Brahminists are diverting our money to wage war against the these “enemies”.

    Reading between the lines in Western media reports, we were able to make out that China-India relations are as bad as ever — if not deteriorating because India’s policy-making is in the hands of the hate-mongering Brahminists who being “Jews of India” always go hand in hand with their Jewish cousins.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Mr Avatar

    Please stick to the subject. The subject is about Multiculturism in Western countries and What is happening to that.

    It is not about India/China border issue, or Kashmir.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mr. Singh;
    did you read this reply of autar ” hindus are poisoning tigers of india. Do not you think that this man has a wandering mind? In one instance he is in Muridke, Lahore and next he reaches Binnori mosque- Karachi. He is really a pakistani, pretending to be a Dalit and trying to create hatred between different Indian groups, mostly on the instructions of ISI or Mullas. I do not think, that he may be getting much money for it, and ISI has a habit of dumping its operatives at slightest difficulty. His posts are heavily borrowed from myths, jaundiced perspective and never on ground reality. If you confront him with real time data, he will switch over to different topic. he is so much depraved that he has no shame in using an indian name in order to pass off as a hindu. Befooling only himself in the process.

    Bobby Reply:

    There is no such thing as crony capitalism, “all capitalism is crony”. The emperor has no clothes, and now its embarrassing :

    http://www.tehelka.com/story_main48.asp?filename=Op111210The_silence.asp
    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article927895.ece?homepage=true

    shan Reply:

    @ Bobby,Totally agree with that article , infact I had written something similar about tata in zia’s last blog, that how shaky were the foundation of Tata edifice, to which cow brain , from cow belt university dropped a one liner”tour de farce”.
    However would like you reflect on these lines from that article , as to venality of rulers.
    “had bothered to even draft a Relief and Rehabilitation Bill that would ensure those who were turfed out of their land through the draconian Land Acquisition Act would get their due. It took the unruly people of Bengal to ensure that. “

    ram autar Reply:

    mr singh this is non subject.all over history europeans ,white skin want FINAL SOLUTION
    FOR everything.they are not accomodative.they changed their skin to attract cheap labour
    from their colonies.genetic qualities never finishes.
    they should come live in india or other muslim countries like indonesia dubai kualampur
    or istamboul to learn tolerance and multiculturism.

    the following is the extract of speech of menachem begin,a terrorist and ex-prime minister of isreal.jew controls the mind of europe and america,

    “Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine goods on this planet. We are as different from inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be reuled by our leader with a rod of Iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

    the whole debate is non-issue.

  • ram autar

    hindus are poisioning the tigers of india.

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    @Ravi
    Ravi says:
    December 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Firstly, extremely evocative prose and my congratulations if you wrote it. I doubt anyone on this blog in his senses disputes the meat of the essay.
    As you would guess, the objection I have is to the last couple of paragraphs where I am unable to be your co-passenger in the leap of reasoning; you go wrong in connecting the dots.
    Economics is a great driver because it works at a fundamental level- at the level of self-interest and for most people who operate at that level of needs (Maslow), this is fine and sufficient.
    We worry about the minuscule majority who cause mayhem.
    More than that, and this is the crux of the problem- we worry about the chapters and verses in “THE BOOK” that these dangerous men draw inspiration from and the absolutism in Islam that makes sure that the majority finds so hard to criticise and disown those men.
    Please read this; posted by Minhaz Merchant in TOI yesterday – this is the Muslim point of view that Mirza, Shoeb etc consistently try to bring to the fore- let’s free the discourse from the shackles of so called seculars.
    Quote:

    India’s innate respect for all religions, which does great credit to its silent Hindu majority, has historically made the country the refuge-of-last-resort for all faiths: Jews, Parsis, Christians, Buddhists. This secular instinct cannot be elided by politicians. Moderate Muslim clerics like Maulana Mahmood Madani of the Jamiat-Ulama-i-Hind can, however, play a positive role. As the third-generation custodian of the Jamiat, Maulana Madani’s word carries weight with influential Deobandis. The Maulana and other Muslim clerics must liberate the dialogue between Muslims and Hindus from the counterfeit secularism politicians embrace to seek votes.

    Significantly, if the Congress loses even half its current Muslim vote due to disaffection over Ayodhya, its overall vote-share could drop dramatically from 28.55 per cent in the 2009 general election to around 22 per cent in 2014. Its Lok Sabha seats would collapse from 206 to under 120. That explains the Congress’s careful approach to the Babri masjid dispute as it enters its final judicial lap. The Congress cannot afford to shed even a sliver of its faithful Muslim vote.

    But must this be at the expense of ordinary Muslims who vote for India’s largest political party in order to feel protected from Hindutva forces only to end up in social and economic ghettos denied jobs, flats and respect by a resentful majority? The cost of keeping the Congress in government is a burden the broader Muslim community should not have to bear.

    Read more: Educate, Don’t Appease – The Times of India
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Educate-Dont-Appease/articleshow/7030620.cms#ixzz177TFAvcj

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    19%of muslims vote go to bjp.70%of muslims of gujrat support narendra modi .creators of wealth wants peace.why muslims should vote for bjp ,when they have no programm for them.ram idols
    from babri masjid should be removed and babri mosque should be open to muslims for prayers.ayodhya was budhdhist place.their temple were forcibly converted into shiv temple.
    ram was introduced to this area in 16th century.he copied valmiki ramayan.
    brhmns use their gods to bully others and occupy others land.90%of their victim are hindus.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Another cow belt analysis from a cow belt university graduate. full of half truths and downright false hood. Lets take the sentence from which he takes so delight “India’s innate respect for all religions, which does great credit to its silent Hindu majority, has historically made the country the refuge-of-last-resort for all faiths:”. this is UTTER BOLLOCKS. The reason all faiths have managed to exist in India is because HINDUISM IS NOT A CONGREGATIONAL RELIGION, it cant be , BECAUSE THE LIKES OF ASHISH AND HIS FOREBEARERS WIL NOT CONGREGATE WITH THE LIKES OF RAM AUTAR.(This is provided my presumption is correct,I must admit I am utterly confused as to his true identity).This is the very reason hindus never felt part of what may be a hindu quom. In this scenario, when the “raw sewage of hell” is busy dehumanising sudhras , and busy protecting and polishing the RELIGIOUS INSTRUMENT OF TORTURE, they can hardly be bothered about what is happening to other religion , many of whom were indegenous. As to Islam ,HINDUS HAD NO CHOICE , A SUBJECT RACE will not rise and did not rise , because THEIR WAS NOTHING IN SCRIPTURES OR LEADERSHIP(read “raw sewage of hell” and contrast with cromwell, joan of ark,or charles martell). That we rose against the british was because had scored its own goal by introducing british education , through which we learnt NATIONALISM, by coming in contact with the thoughts of Burke, Matissini , garibaldi . And this germination took place in THE EASTERN CORNER OF INDIA , that is why the setting of”Hum Jiye Jan Se” is not in COW BELT, for that was and is in many respectdue that evil of caste , still “an area of darkness”.
    The next is MUSLIM EMANCIPATION. In my business , there is a orderly process to arrive at a conclusion.It is in following sequence, HISTORY, Clinical examination,Investigation and then DIAGNOSIS. As much I loathe congress for it being synonymous with corruption , cronyism.
    I think one needs to go back to history. Muslims are MOSTLY CONVERTS DRIVEN OUT OF HINDUISM , bottom of the heap. There was no SC/ST for these people (till recently), no reservation as mullahs will not allow QUOM to be fragmented. So they start from zero capital.
    Next is UPPER CLASS , they were so proud of MUGHAL/ISLAMIC/URDU culture RESISTED FOR A LONG LONG TIME ENGLISH EDUCATION , in the process MUSLIM MIDDLE CLASS LOST OUT TO HINDUS WHO EMBRACED ENGLISH EDUCATION WHOLE HEARTEDLY, because this is the FIRST TIME IN INDIA’S HISTORY Education became accessible to all hindus and not an EXCLUSIVE CLUB manned by the “raw sewage of hell”

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    The reason all faiths have managed to exist in India is because HINDUISM IS NOT A CONGREGATIONAL RELIGION

    shan hindus slaughtered the budhdhists extincted the jaineses enslaved the locals confiscated their lands.
    if a shudra(local)touch the food of brhmn and he eats it.his wife has to sleep with that brhmn.

    india became civilized tolerant and humane because of muslim rule.when britishers came
    literacy was 97%when they left it was 17%.only.i advise to read the speeches of lord macaulay
    in british parliament.
    i am not hindus or brhmns i hate lies.i know people like u are remanant of british debauchery of india.they rewrote history to divide indians.but everything is available in archives.
    hindus(bhadralok)are most blood thirsty race on indian soil.
    they planned the blood bath of 1947 ,then 600plus communal riots.now in the bussines of bomb planting.resulting in muslim ladies working with hindu names.nobody gives accomodation to them.what they have done.

    but being hindu,hate is your duty.u will say cowbelt analysis.COWBELT IS REAL INDIA,COWBELT IS TRUE INDIA.WITHOUT COWBELT THERE IS NO INDIA.
    COWBELT IS THE CRADLE OF HINDUISM AND HEADQUARTER OF MUSLIM ARISTROCRACY IN INDIA.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    i am not hindus or brhmns

    i am not against hindus or brhmns.sorry

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram autar

    I agree with you and I totally disagree with this semi skilled BUTCHER who works in an Abattoir in Kent.

    He is ill-educated, because he confuses training with education.

    vittoria corombina Reply:

    @Ram autar, Watch Dabaang, this is Cow belt incarnate,TAKE RAJIV and his homoerotic mate Ashish with you to watch that film.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shan

    The article is right about the acceptance by Hindu religion and flourishing of various religions.

    Christianity, Islam, and Jewish religions came to India through the ancient Muzhiris port (the modern day Cranganore in kerala). The local king gave them land, facilities, and rights . The Mlankara “St Thomas” tradition of Kerala Christianity starts in AD 52, long before Rome became Christian. Several rights were granted, as evidenced in the “Terisapalli copper plate” (theresa church copper plate) executed by the early Chera emperors.
    jews came over to escape persecution; the earliest jews came over in AD 68. There are still four synagogues left in Kerala.
    Arab traders came and settled in Muzhirs (Cranganore) too. The traders who came after the Prophet were Muslims. They married, intermingled.
    The local king and people provided more than acceptance to these waves of new religion. Priviliges were granted, places of worship were built for thm, lands were given, marriages were allowed etc etc. Even today, there is a place in Cranganore, where one can see the ruins of a temple, synagogue, church, and mosque in one compound.

    It indeed was the acceptance, tolerance, welcoming by the local king and local people (predecessors of “Hindus” since the term Hindu was not there at that time).

    Islam in the north obviously is a result of invasion, forced conversion and the acceptance by Harijans to escape castism. Islam, post 1800s, will undertake forced conversions in the South also, through Tipu Sultaan’s expansion.

    So, yes, Hinduism and its Kings and its people were accepting, welcoming, supporting, facilitating various religions in certain parts of India long before invasions.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    lam in the north obviously is a result of invasion, forced conversion

    there cannot be any bigger lie than theory of forced conversion.muslim ruled india for 800-1000 yeras.could force entire dalit and backwards to convert.large no of converts is from high caste.my village was occupied my muslims in 1192 .even now there are 90%non muslims.brhmns during their rule crushed their soul and mind,hence they were good praja(subject).

    king of malabar converted to izlam before traders came.islam spreaded through preaching
    not by force(like christianity in europe or americas).indonesia was never ruled muslims,in afghanistan and in iraq even preachers have not gone.

    there is no conversion in hinduism so for them ,christian and dalits were same.

    shan Reply:

    @Gopi Thomas,your argument is facile.Jews settled in germany for thousand years , would have been proof of german “tolerance” , only if there was no KRYSTALLNACHT. same with jews in england , came along with the roman conquerors , sign of english “tolerance” , only till they were expelled and rest each and every one of them slaughtered during the reign of Edward.You need to remember India thousand years ago was sparsely populated , few people dropping of the ships here and there is no big deal, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS HINDUS DIDNOT HAVE ANY NATIONAL IDENITY TO CLING ON OR DEFEND COURTSEY OF LIKES OF ASHISH’S FOREBEARERS.That charles martell stopped the saracens is because the christiandom was fighting for its existence , there was no Hindudom (QUOM) to resist the marauders from Khybar pass , again courtsey of those raw sewage of hell.You need to visit european countries to know what nationalidentity was , also remember how isabella and ferninand drove the moors out of andalucia, NO SUCH EVENT HAD A MICROSCOPIC CHANCE IN HINDU NATION.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Well, there was no “nation” then. there were self contained Kingdoms and principalities.

    The notion of a country or for that mater an unifying force, may be for the first time, was set in motion by the travel Adi Shankara in 600.

    Leaving all that aside, whatever may be teh structure or lack of structure, it is a fact that Hindu kings allowed and accepted peopel seeking shelters or otheehrwise – Parsi, christian, Muslim, jew…

    While I cannot vouch for every King in Ivarious parts of india; i know for sure that had the Mushiris king turned St thomas away or killed, Christianity would not have kicked off in kerala in 52; and I will not be writing this blog.

    That the community grew and is the third largest in the state, with the lrgest wealth and the highest education, is also an indication of live and let live and let the meritorious rise — as it was in the ancient indian traditions

    Ravi Reply:

    Hinduism is not a CONGREGATIONAL RELIGION.

    So the traffic jam caused every Sunday by the Radha Soami Satsangh in Delhi is caused by a massive car hand wash jamboree.

    The Morning and Evening prayers which draws large crowds at the Hanuman Temple in the Connaught Place is just a gathering of wood be brides there for a mass henna application.

    The Sis Ganj as well as the Bangla Sahib Gurudawaras in Delhi draw a large horde of hungry vagrants every day, rather than real Sikh devotees, there just to pick up a punnet of Prasad. I guess Sikh’s are not really Hindus, are they??

    The sleep disturbing Jagratras, which used to draw larger crowds than they do now a days, are really a holding pen for such Hindus who are migrating towards a more CONGREGATIONAL Relgion.

    Ardh Kumbh, and the Kumbh proper are large congregations of Pagans, not real Hindu’s.

    I guess I have made my point, that this semi trained butcher from the Orpington abattoir is talking through his varicose veins.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ramayana can be SUMMERIZED in 3-5 lines.a beef eater ran away with wife of a grass eating king.took her to lanka.grass eating king gone to lanka brought his wife back.
    this is simple story.

    ITNI SEE BAAT KO LEKE PUREE RAAT,SALEE KO ,TUNA TUN ,TO TUNA TUN.could not sleep 3 continous nights while i was on holidays in india.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, you ignorant moron you reveal your birth religion that is a congregational religion and that is Islam. sikhism may be a ofshoot of hinduism but Sikhism is a Congregational Religion. In hinduism there is no place for traffic stopping , road blocking namaz on the main roads. I know the hindus dont qllow you muslims to enter the mandir, if they did , you will see however big the temple is , the grva griha where the idol is housed is always a tiny strucure , so there is no scope for congregating , also the forebearers of your pufta mate ashish made sure all castes do not congregate. There is JUMMA bar like your religion , there is NO SERMON about Jihad, it is a personal god which you can worship at home .

    shan Reply:

    sorry typo ,for there is jumma , read there is NO jumma bar in hinduism. as to kumbh , that is MELA , which occurs once in ten or more years , and no sermon , the misunderstanding is understandable for someone who is NOT HINDU but muslim.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    The congenital moron, syphalis impacted brain of your needs some examination.

    I think you failed once again to address all the examples of CONGRIGATIONS I mentioned.

    Radh Soami Satsang every day creates road blocks in Delhi. As do oodles of Akhand Path’s organised by many sikhs.

    During the Durga Pooja, many many roads in Delhi are blocked by our Bengali bretrens.

    I am sure you are not an Indian. More like a Internet Indian.

    You just see – because its suits your narrow political objective – the Muslim prayers being offered on the roads, and completely ignore the Hindu ones.

    Kya Shan hai, Kya Shan hai.

    Ravi Reply:

    The point I was countering is the CONGRIGATIONAL nature or lack of it in Hinduism.

    I was not addressing the issue of Sermons.

    Hindus go to RSS for sermons. Anti Muslim venom has been taken out of Temples and handed over to VHP/RSS whose reason for existence is to condemn minorities in India.

    SHAN you are a Hindu Fascist

    Ashish Reply:

    Hi Ravi,
    you need not respond; Shan is just warming up to the task and of course, finally the “dream-team” of Shan and Ram Autar are together .. ah, bliss!

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ASHISH RSS IS GANG OF PERVERTS H0M0SEXUALS,GANGESTERS ,MURDERERS,WIFE SWAPPERS,INFANT BURNERS,HAWALA DEALERS,SCAMOPERATORS,RIOT PLANNERS, AND PEOPLE INVOLVE IN ALL TYPE OF FINANCIAL CRIMES AND MONEY SWINDLERS.

    ONE OF UR ICON NAME GOWALKAR WAS CAUGHT WITH EXPLOSIVE IN MEERUT BACK IN 1930.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Ram Autar,
    While I could ask you to cite instances of perversion, murder, infant burning, hawala dealing etc etc… let me ask a much simpler question:
    What is the problem with being a homosexual? (BTW, is it your point that everyone/ a large majority/ a significant minority of those in RSS are homosexuals? How did you know? Do you actually trail people in public parks/ peep into their bedrooms?)
    BTW, an answer like “it is forbidden in Islam/ Quran” is also acceptable; but, please tell us why you equate homosexuality among the other crimes you list.

    ram autar Reply:

    homosexuality

    mr ashish homosexuality is not socially accepted act.it is mainly racial.being birth defect i dont consider it as crime.if u are from cow belt ,work for its development.&unity.all my friends are ex-rss workers.that is why i know much about this organization.i dont hate them.i hate rss because they spread hatred and lies.kill innocent poors and rape women folk.

    Ashish Reply:

    Hi Ram Autar,
    my; what colourful lives these RSS guys lead!
    I am not technically from the “Cow-belt”; though I graduated from there- and, I have a debt of gratitude to the place that will be impossible to repay.
    Have you considered taking a break from reading about things in the past – obscure scriptures that no one reads anymore and focus on meeting real, ordinary people- living in India – and ask them what are their concerns? The answer will surprise you.
    By harping on imagined divisions and faultlines- you are creating/ strengthening them. The need of the hour is assimilation- in a shared identity. We can debate what that identity should be- but, abusing our shared heritage is not going to get you anywhere.
    If you are a Muslim (and it really does not matter if you are), listen to positive voices like Minhaz.

    vittoria corombina Reply:

    @ Ashish and Shoeb, i think shan is right. he gives enough evidence to back his views.i wonder
    if ashishis scaredof seeing himself in the mirror shown by shan.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    The level of proof that satisfies you seems to be indistinguishable from common gossip.

    SHAN, has never, I repeat never risen above title tattle.

    For proof he sends samples to the Lab

    shan Reply:

    Ashish Reply:
    December 4th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Hi Ravi,
    you need not respond; Shan is just warming up to the task and of course, finally the “dream-team” of Shan and Ram Autar are together .. ah, bliss!
    Now lets p i s s on this bliss
    Although I perchance am vicious in my guess , as I confess it is my nature’s plague , to spy into abuses . O beware of jealousy , it is the green eyed monster , which doth mock , the meat it feeds on .that cuckold lives in BLISS” . (From a book edited by jonathan bate, and eric rasmussen ,page 2120, pub macmillan)with apologies to the one who Ben Johnson , referred to as “sweet swan of avon” for taking liberties.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    This is a spectator sport so I am watching it.

    My current assessment is that Ram autar – however, quirky his submissions may be – is head and shoulder above SHAN. This is because his contributions are the result of a nobler motivation – to challenge the received wisdom and to better what he sees around him. As a person he is tons better than I am, because he is able to ignore all manner of personal abuse thrown at him. I am a street fighter – and not necessarily proud of it, – therefore to avenge personal abuse thrown at me, I often stoop to get into the cesspit where Ali-SHAN is a long-term permanent resident.

    I think Shan the semi skilled BUTCHER comes across as a pub-bore, a know it all whose main objective here seems to be to shine a torch on his own self inflated ego. His rehearsing, in this forum, of differences between analogue and digital sound recording technologies was a classic example of this.

    I have a number of belts, but the one which is my favourite is not made of COW skin, but is made from Ostrich leather.

    Ashish, I made the point as I saw it; it was not my intention to strike a harmony between our views. If you see the world differently to me, then that is your right. Who knows what truth is.

    We can always ask jesting Pilate.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, the dole cheat from the council estates of toxeth, in your own words”I am a street sleeper – and not necessarily proud of it,” .a man is known by the companion he keeps , in your case your pufta mate Ashish, who belongs to that “raw sewage of hell”caste , in your case it is a case of treponema pallidum invading your brain due to your misdemeanour

    Ashish Reply:

    Ravi,
    Jesting Pilate?? You meant Pontificating Pilate, didn’t you?
    Let us step back from the Congress-BJP/RSS points scoring and look at the world from a pure roti-kapda-makaan point of view of an ordinary Muslim.
    My simple poser is: if Hindus- and irrespective of what Ram Autar insists, all castes- are getting a larger share of the development pie than the Muslims, could it just be that they are better prepared? They have received a head-start for having embraced English education, urbanization, discarded antediluvian social mores and got a move on.
    These head-starts are just that- head-starts. But, as we have seen in history- they rarely confer permanent advantages. Bengal had the renaissance ahead of everywhere else- for embracing education and benefiting from being the first-born of Macaulay. Where does Bengal rank today?
    If there is one lesson that ordinary Muslims can learn from Hindus, Christians, Jains, Buddhists.. not just in India but worldwide, is not to spend more than 5 minutes per day on religion (I spend less than that in a decade).
    Angela Merkel got the flak for being blunt about the failure of multi-culti- she was just stating a fact. And, do read the subtext- she believes, as did the other guy (head of Fed reserve, was he??) that the cultural values of the immigrants- the type the Germans are attracting- are often at odds with German (Protestant) values.
    Germans take a lot of pride in their work ethics- I guess if most of the immigrants were christians from South of Italy (you will know the kind I am talking about :) ), the reaction would have been the same. The Germans are not convinced they need to dilute what has made them what they are- a successful modern nation.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    We know you can not read. I said I was a “street fighter”, not a “street sleeper”. You may be confusing me with some of your Bengali EPDP relatives.

    I’d rather be Billy no mates than to have a crypto fascist Lun Goat wearing you as a companion.

    The only reason you don’t like Ashish is because he was the first one to see through your wafer thin sham intellect. Keep reading Jane’s Stealth Weekly you never know, one day you may even understand it.

    If you knew anything about Toxteth you would know there is no shortage of mates there. The same can not be said about, a lone semi trained Bengali Butcher in Medway.

    So is it true that you have lost so much weight due to worrying as to what Ashish may say about you that you now need a COW BELT to hold up your Lun Goat.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Yes mine was a reference to an essay – Of Truth – written by Frnacis Bacon, the father of English Prose. Its first line is “WHAT is truth? said jesting Pilate,and would not stay for an answer.” Yes Pontius Pilate was the presiding Judge in the Court Case against Jesus of Nazreth.

    Now coming to the interesting question you pose. Education as a means of change or modernisation is a slow process. State’s role is to create opportunities, it still requires initiatives from an individual to convert these opprtunities into benefits. I accept that some ultra conservative elements of our Indian Muslim society – perhaps under the influence of ultra conservative mullahs – fail to take advantage of the availabale opportunities. You know and I know that this is not the case with ALL muslims, but sadly it is true for a significant number. In contrast the more forward looking Dalits and OBCs are taking these opportunities and climbing up the social ladder. I am hopeful, that this and other changes taking place in India are for universal good.

    Just by way of comparison, the Tinker as well as the Romany community in the UK, and the Gypsy communities in Romania, Spain, etc. have had several opportunities available to them, but such is their “travelling culture” that they do not rate education very highly. We should be matured enough to allow them to be what they wish to be within a legal framework.

    Yes I would agree that Bengal had a head start and they became satisfied by reaching the Babu status. Sadly such head start has also given us the semi skilled Butcher who now has a job in an abbatoir in Orpington.

    I would agree with you that not just muslims but all of us should spend as little time on religion as is possible. Secular EDUCATION is the way to advance our society and continue to assert our well earned and rightful position on the world stage.

    Angela Merkel is a politician, she can handle any flack that comes her way. It is naïve to expect that you can bring in Guest Workers from Turkey and then for them to abandon their Turkish culture and sub-merge themselves into the German culture. That would be assimilation and not Multi-Kulti.

    I would take a bet with you. Turkish workers in Germany have a higher work ethic than Southern Italians living in Germany do.

    I am not convinced that the Turkish population is diluting the German Culture. It may at the most create some MULT-KULTI Ghettos, it does not adversely impact German Culture. Which like any other culture would have changed any road.

    Ashish, I hope I have addressed each of your points, and given you my perspective on them..

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi
    Yes, I recognise the Jesting Pilate reference and no, I did mean Pontificating Pilate- you would agree “Pontificating” describes Shan well.
    Will catch some sleep now; have a busy Sunday coming up- oops, already upon us in Delhi. All you “westerners” are still in the “other side of midnight”.
    BTW; Bengal was the state I was born in and I married a girl from EPDP :) No quarrel with your assessment on the current state of Bengal, though. More later.

    shan Reply:

    @cow belt graduate, only a fool will say he is complete.no harm in learning from others,like ram autar , filled me with quite a few insteresting information about the druze in lebanon. now let me fill you about germany, having breathed the air of Berlin , Cologne, potsdam,and Achen and having interacted with countless (okay about fifteen) german doctors who come to work in UK.
    first of all it is Jesting pilot ,a collection of essays by Aldous Huxley.
    now germany, what struck me was germany despite never having an empire has mind boggling palaces , which is a measure of its imperial wealth. regarding german work ethics it is indeed legendary. I once came across a doctor in carmathen in wales, he was in a junior position in a very ordinary hospitalwhich did very bread and butter surgery. but this guy treated his job as if he is preparing for a Phd thesis, it was unbeleivable.The german labourer when he turns up for work he comes in a suit and brief case, changes into overalls . remember what molotov said “if germans decide to vandalise the railway statio n , they will first buy the platform ticket”
    regarding the turks , it is not that simple. There are lot of italian and Czeck (main source of income for serbia is money repatriated) and they are fully assimilated. with the turks a LOT IS CULTURAL IMPEDIMENT, they areall from the villages of antalya. Though do not underestimate or gloss over German nationalism IT IS VICIOUS , JUST ASK THE FAMILY OF A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    I guess you fascist vericose veins are giving you some trouble.

    Germany never had an empire.

    ____________________________________________________

    The German Empire (German: Deutsches Reich,[1] called by some German historians as Kaiserlich Deutsches Reich or Kaiserreich) refers to Germany from the unification of Germany and proclamation of William I as German Emperor on 18 January 1871 to 1918, when it became a federal republic after defeat in World War I and the abdication of William II (28 November 1918). Deutsches Reich remained the official name of Germany throughout the Weimar period and most of the Nazi period until 1943, when it was changed to Großdeutsches Reich (“Great German Empire”).

    During its 47 years of existence, the German Empire emerged as one of the most powerful industrial economies on Earth and a great power, until it collapsed following its military defeat in World War I and the concurrent November Revolution. The most important bordering states were Imperial Russia in the east, France in the west, and Austria-Hungary in the south.

    ________________________________________________________

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, the genital warts, what i meant germany never had an empire like the british , ie, COLONIES. germany was fragmented into several princely states , as you can make out from your wiki source germany as a unified strucure was PRETTY RECENT event. Its wealth was probably from the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE of which germany was at one point the centre of that empire.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Sorry, I could not resist, the opportunity was too good.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    just a couple of small – and hurried- rejoinders and then I will drop this.
    1. Regarding the gypsies (and other such tribes)- yes, I agree that they should perhaps be let be- so long as
    - they do not scream discrimination and point to low levels of HDI in their midst as proof(last I heard, no Sachar commission for them!- but, I could be mis/uninformed)
    - their low levels of HDI do not pose a threat to the broader society.
    2. About a year back, on this blog, I had quoted proceedings from the debates while framing our constitution- which showed that leaders of OBCs/ Dalits specifically wanted to assimilate in the broader Indian society and partake of the fruits of development. The Muslim leadership of those days wanted to maintain a separate identity.
    So, the Muslims voted for our own version of “Multi-Kulti” and the Dalits and OBCs wanted to assimilate. The results are there for all to see.
    @Shan,Francis Bacon was the first man to use the “Jesting Pilate” phrase in his essay which examined “What is truth?” Much later, this was used by Aldous Huxley as a name of a collection of essays.
    I have not read Huxley’s book. A Prof in a distant past made me and a bunch of rebellious post-grads read Bacon’s essay- much of it, then, as now, went totally above our heads.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Minhaz’ article is to the point.

    I have maintained, based on what I see and observe in the world in general and Islamic world in particular, Indian Muslims are in a unique position to take Islam out of its current predicament and lead Muslims worldwide in realizing aspirations.

    In a sense, it is a choice between Minhaz and Zia!

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Shoeb :)

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ShoebK, A child needs to walk first , before starts to run. Indian Muslims if they ligt themselves, let alone rest of islamic world by freeing itself from the clutches of Unholy Arabian Empire(like the protestants did from the poppery), THAT WILL BE A GARGANTUAN EVENT IN INDIA’S HISTORY. As to Arabs, they see BROWN SKINNED QUOM , as SLAVE LABOUR to be used to serve the Prophet’s tribe.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan bhai.

    Brahminism cannot survive without war and violence.

    That is why “they have called war a divine dispensation” and “perfected the art of war and sex”. The killing of all the “Kshatriyas of the world” by their great god Parashurama is hailed as a divine act and Kerala is named — Parasurama Shristi” — after this god .

    God Krishna, a wonderful sex god, ordering Arjuna to kill his cousins, uncles on the battlefield is brought out as a “divine text”, called the Bhagwad Gita, and Gandhi, the Father of their nation, calling it his life’s breath. What wonderful jokers this country has produced.

    Founding fathers of racism: The world does not know all these jokers because India’s Brahminical media has suppressed the supreme truth that Hindu India is the founding father of racism. The very name of the Brahminical religion, Varnashrama Dharma, means it is a racist creed exposing its racist essence. What does varna (a Sanskrit word) mean? Anything which is white is alone divine. Black, brown and yellow are hated by the Brahmin. That is why this eternal Brahminical war on India — and against its Black Untouchables, OBCs and the Yellow Mongoloid tribals of North-East.

    As founding fathers of racism in the world, vaidik rulers of India have injected racism into every aspect of life — including what we eat, our skin colour, agriculture, science, art, culture, sports, health sciences, religion. No aspect of our life is spared from the Brahminic racist onslaught.

    That is how India has sunk from the Third World to the Fourth.

    ram autar Reply:

    A child needs to walk first , before starts to run. Indian Muslims if they ligt themselves, let alone rest of islamic world by freeing itself from the clutches of Unholy Arabian

    shan u are not aware of ground realities .in islam all are equal irespective of colour and region.not like hinduism..u are not only remnant of british debauchery of india, u are also an idiot.

    tajender Reply:

    shoeb dont worry we will lead.islam is value based religion not money based.values always conquer money.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Tejender, just one more attack on US, pakistan will be PULVERISED, along with all the SCUMS’, remember what america said to pakistan “Join us or else we will send you to STONE AGE”. There is a retribution plan according the book OBAMAS WARS ,150 places from the data base will be pounded till it returns to stone age , no consideration will be given to civilian or religious places. As for Islam’s success if it keeps on following the trajectory it is in , then the chances of that creed having any importance will be limited to starving millions in asia and africa and the drug pushers and prison population.

    ram autar Reply:

    remember what america said to pakistan “Join us or else we will send you to STONE AGE”.

    turkey refused what they could do.nothing.pakistani rulers wanted to join.this will provide themchance to make money.nd protction.
    sept 11 was zoinist game.where are dead bodies of passengers.why there is no jew in death list.
    regarding ur last lines ,muslims are providing employment to 20 millions hindians which is feeding half india.

    shan Reply:

    @ashish , this from your beloved article “Consider Britain: only Protestant (not Catholic) Christians can be monarch. The law of blasphemy protects only Christian citizens in the United Kingdom”
    Now a rational humanist says READ MORE before you get carried away
    “n 2008 May 08, the UK’s blasphemy laws were repealed:

    * In January 2008, a spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that the Government would consider the abolition of the blasphemy laws during the passage of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. The Government consulted with the Church of England and other churches before reaching a decision. The move followed a letter written to The Daily Telegraph at the instigation of MP Evan Harris and the National Secular Society and was signed by leading figures including Lord Carey, former Archbishop of Canterbury, who urged that the laws be abandoned.1
    * In March 2008 Peers voted for the laws to be abandoned.1
    * On May 8 2008, the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 abolished the common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel in England and Wales, with effect from 8 July 2008.1
    I wonder if there is any merit left in that article.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    NO SUCH EVENT HAD A MICROSCOPIC CHANCE IN HINDU NATION.

    are u sure.after orrisa,gujrat and golden temple.i think u know well that arthshastra of chankya and
    protocol of zion isame.
    only under islam all races and religions can survive.all race religions and languages grew and become prosperous undert muslim spain,islamic turkey,and muslim india.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    The sad story of the stealing of a mosque in “secular India”

    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/it-happened-one-night

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    So, what is your point? In a land of millions of mosques, one mosque was taken over by unruly mob.

    Are more mosques being construvted today than temples or churches or gurudwaras?

    Is anybody blocking the construction?
    Was Ayodhya mosque like Jama Masjid of Delhi?
    Is Ayodhya an “important” palce for one sect of the people?

    The mob should be punished by the coutrt of law.

    Things happen.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    bobby 2300 mosques are under hindu control in punjab only.brhmns use their idols to bully others.usually they occupy the land of poors by installing idols of their.this is national game.

    The Aryan upper castes did not fight against the British rule. Rather the Aryans destroyed Muslim kingdoms, co-operating with the British East India Company and helped the British establish their empire. They supported the British whole heartedly.

    Both British and the Aryans are aliens. The British East India Company in India conspired against Muslim Nawabs in collusion with some Aryan officials of the Nawabs and caused the downfall of Muslim empire.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Binoy,

    “one mosque was taken over by unruly mob.”. Which resulted in the death of innocents by the sangh-parivar orchestrated riots… a small point you forgot to mention.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    They never mention that point. It does nor fit into their view of the world.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    If there is one lesson that ordinary Muslims can learn from Hindus, Christians, Jains, Buddhists

    ashish bhai,u live in delhi,frm delhi to calcutta ,almost every city is known with muslim skill.shoes of agra scissors of meerut locks of aligarh bangles of firozabad,then muradabad,chiken of lucknow to carpet bussines of bhadoi tc etc .saris of benaras.muslims are creators of wealth and golden goose f indian ecnomy.
    under brhmncl raj we are shudra hence must be hated.muslims introduced plantation in india.but get least possible.goverments are supporting exploiters land system was developed by muslim rulers.brhmnsm is the most dangerous force of our society.they use their god to bully otheres.

    these gods have caste.inter god war cannot be ruled out.as well.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Tejender,
    I did not mean to imply that there is nothing for others to learn from Muslims- the skilled artisans you mention are great example- as are huge contributions made in music and poetry.
    Talking about Brahmans and Shudras is harking back to a past that today is rapidly disappering from our midst. With the active participation from all sections- in all sphres, it will disappear faster- the fruits of development will reach all sections. I point to the victory of Nitish Kumar in Bihar as an example- we need more leaders like him who have managed to marry social justice with development.
    Yes, our current land records and revenue collection system has been developed by the Mughals- most significantly by Aurangzheb and then on modified/ adapted by the British. No one disputes that. While it brought great structure to the system of governance- it also was a made to suit the needs of the empire. A reform is overdue- though, this blog is not the right forum to spend time on it.
    Where is the Brahmin Raj- politically most states are ruled by non-brahmins- Mayawati, Nitish, Modi, Karunanidhi. And, that is good. I expect our nexrt generation to worry not about “the accident of birth that is religion or caste” but about educating themselves, gaining skills and making a mark in the world.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    sikhism may be a ofshoot of hinduism

    mr shan sikhism is ofshoot of islam.though cuturally they are more close to hindus ,being neo convert.land to golden temple was donated by a muslim.mastana his right hand man was muslim
    upto 1947 granth saheb was recited by muslim qawwals.its foundation stone too was laid down by muslim faqir of lahore.brhmnst used them as their foot soldiers in 1947 blood bath.to clear his doubts he visited baghdad,had long discussion with sufis of city.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ha,
    another muslim in the garb of tajender has come to blog. it is Tejinder, not Tajender, you crude. Golden temple was Harmandir and muslim saint who was with Guru nanak was a sufi saint not present day zehadi. Gurubani contains mostly hindu scriptures along with kabir, rahim and other sufis. Sikhism was against cast and in no way supportive of Islam. Guru Nanak was a Brahmin, who revolted against excesses of caste tyranny but did not condone muslim excesses. Sikhs always fought against tyranny, be it muslim, hindu or british. So do not feel smug and try to coopt sikhs against hindus. Do you know any thing about panj Pyaras, all of them were hindus. You fake.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Pankaj and Tejender , I am not a sikh,i am a rational humanist of hindu parentage. . i was once invited by a family to the local gurudwara. I was gobsmacked ,there was KIRTAN going on , and would you beleive how many times the word RAM was hitting my eardrums.and for first time in my life I saw what a congregational religion means.It is a routine like church attendance , or nammaz on jumma bar and the hall packed with the follower of the panth, difficult for a pakistani like ravi to see the difference with non congregational caste ridden hinduism

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Tejender

    Shan does not even understand the meaninings of the words Rational and Humanist. He says this, but deep down is unvarnished HINDU FUNDO and a CRYPTO FASCIST who wears a Lun Goat under his western clothes.

    He has obviously never been to a Havan or an Aarti in his Local Hindu Temple. They too are very spiritual.

    He is a Political Hindu, a RSS chalak.

    Let me remind, this semi trained butcher, and you can read above, that it was HE who introduced this non concept of Congrigational Religion. He did not know what he meant, when challenged he changed his tack.

    Ravi Reply:

    Tajender

    Shan claims to be a Rational Humanist. However, this was comprehensively debunked a couple of Blogs ago.

    These are his sayings and see if you think he is Rational Humanist.

    _____________________________________________________________________
    ALI SHAN

    Here are three popularly accepted definition of RATIONALITY.

    A. the quality of being consistent with or based on logic
    B. In philosophy, rationality and reason are the key methods used to analyze the data gathered through systematically gathered observations. …
    C. The quality or state of being rational; agreement with reason; possession of reason; due exercise of reason; reasonableness; Objectivity, thoughtfulness

    Here are some statements made by you.

    Please can you enlighten people visiting by matching each of these statements with one of the definitions listed above.

    Simply say for example 1A or 6C, etc.

    1. (as much pinko pseudo liberals want that to disappear ,it aint going to go away)

    2. also somebody should have sent her a DVD of the movie MARKET starring Monisha Koirala ,which showed Arabs sixty plus coming to hyderabad for nikah (read only sex as they vanish, and it is happening with saudis all over the world and the mullahs have come up with a new terminology for this kind of one night stand and authenticated under the aegis of quoran) with thirteen year old.

    3. @Ashish,That is your opinion and that’s fine.I think it is bizarre to expect a market of such a third grade book that too on indian economy in UK.I dont know if you are There are more takers of Jeffrey , caught with a hooker Archer in India than USA,and that is a fact according to sales figures.The point about mental enslavement is very important .

    4. So What does Miss Roy and her chela bobby suggest. Leave kashmir in the hands OF FIDAYEEN .
    Apparently the scums (azadi jihadi complex) told the pandits MEN FOLKS LEAVE , YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR WOMEN FOLKS BEHIND

    5. @Ram Autar , you f u ck ed up as sh ole , why dont you you emigrate to bangladesh we bloggers will pay for your passage.

    6. Far more pressing isFORTY PERCENT people in Marxist west bengal do not have food all through the year THEY GO HUNGRY , hunger is widespread , every research has shown this. So those firingee inspired dreams for another day.

    7. Why doesn’t Prof Nandi come to these blogs , I for one will give him a hard time. Perhaps because he breathes the fetid air of delhi it makes him completely oblivious to the current state of affairs in WHITE WORLD.

    8. @Bobby , Bamiyan Buddha wasa UNESCO HERITAGE SITE. If Babri masjid was I WOULDN’T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT RAM LALA , it needed to be prserved just like Taj Mahal . But it wasn’t IT WAS A DERELICT unused mosque , SO I CANT SEE A GREAT DEAL OF PROBLEM THERE. As regards Shiv Sena it is Glioblastoma grade4(the most vicious cancer known to man). In fact I have commented elsewhere I think it is far far far grave danger to india’s security, this is one virus if not exterminated will one day eat up the whole body politic and there will not be an India as we know it.

    9. @gopi thomas, no need for oops, both are valid . To call india secular is like calling bin laden , a gandhian

    10. Hindus should ask for “holocaust type reparations” from Muslims.
    Muslims killed 80 million hindus and forcefully converted many under violence/death/jizya.
    muslims should be ashamed of all the things..instead they want to continue this jihad..

    11. @MJ akbar is a hypocrite through and through , he was rabidly vocal against the supreme court verdict in shah bano case. Also he was a congress lackey , now is an example of a perfect turncoat.

    So Dr Shan, from the comfort of your Coventry home, can you review some of your statements and match each of them to the definitions of RATIONALITY reproduced above.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    ram autar Reply:

    5. @Ram Autar , you f u ck ed up as sh ole , why dont you you emigrate to bangladesh we bloggers will pay for your passage

    donkey i can purchase u and ur father both.u are a filmy nut ,absolutely ignorant of ground reality

    8. @Bobby , Bamiyan Buddha wasa UNESCO HERITAGE SITE. If Babri masjid was I WOULDN’T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT RAM LALA ,
    bamiyan is restored .ram lalla is abrhmncl fraud.theses jokers are cheating us ramallah is city of palestine.

    ram autar Reply:

    Unfortunately all people, all acros the world,are aware of the mirthless, medieval,death obsessed barbarism of Islamic fundamentalism

    i think u are describing medieval christianity.after seeing the atrocities of crusaders ,KHALIL JIBRAN has written that those who have religion has mind without brain.

    ram autar Reply:

    skhism starts with eik omkar.ram has no place in sikhism.actually even in hinduism he has no place.but now he is being used by rss gundaas to bully other communities including shivbhakts and land grabbing.
    ram became popular because of ramlila which was started by nawb wajid ali shah of lucknow from baradari.

    ram autar Reply:

    pankaj it was excesses of delhi rulers ,not muslim excesses.same rulers demolished the empire of bijapur and golcunda.90%muslims still follow sufism.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This idiot is confusing the concept of Sikhs with the concept of Khalsa.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    jehadis are victim of american bombing .90%of muslims are followers of sufi faith.jehadis will survive till americans are in area.then will be buried in mountains of himalaya.
    i hope same end for rss.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Golden temple was Harmandi

    right but land to built temple was given by muslims.it was inagurated by a muslim fakir from lahore.
    base of religion is EIK OMKAR,LA ILLAHA ILLAHA.teachings are very near ti islamic teachings.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    A gift that goes on giving…

    9 Pakistani terrorists were arrested in Spain and Thailand yesterday in connection with false passport manufacturing, money laundering, logistcal supprt for Al Queda. These APkistani Muslims were helping plan a “specatcular” attack in Spain.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    The Western countries’ visa/immigartion/fear issues will continue as long as extremist Islam is the face of islam presented to non-Muslims, Unfortunately all people, all acros the world,are aware of the mirthless, medieval,death obsessed barbarism of Islamic fundamentalism; and only a few on any good side it possesses.

    The standard response of Muslims, including many on this blog, is “but what about this, what about Hindus who killed Budhists 2000 years ago, what about crusades, what about nagasaki”…The response is clueless; the reconciliation non-existent, and worse, the expectation “how dare they deny visa to us”..

    The tragedy is that it is just not Western countries. All countries, including islamic countries, are now worried; and many consider this behaviour an existential threat. One does not have to go too far away to find a ‘working” example–just look at our own western neighbour. And, in a sense, it poses an existential threat to us also.

    [Reply]

  • Mohamed

    How many of the skilled labour are actually Muslim? Not much from what I have seen. Muslims are mostly taxi drivers and running Indo Pak restaurants and having some small shops. There are a lot of Sikhs and Sri Lankans in Germany doing the same unskilled jobs that Muslims are doing. And Gernany does not have a problem with them even though their numbers are roughly the same as the number of muslims. The real problem is the militancy of islam and the terrorist threat that anything islamic carries. Until we rise up to put our terrorist leaders to death, we cannot expect the west to accept us as part of a civilized world. When the west was displaying blatant racism against all races, it was not we who did something about it, but they themselves who convicted and sentenced a large number of racists so that we felt comfortable ther. Now it is time for us to set right the rot in our house and not resort to the whining that we have been doing for so many decades.

    [Reply]

  • http://pisanki.info Carmela Atiles

    I love your blog.. very nice colors theme. Did you create this website yourself or did you hire someone to do it for you? Plz reply back as I’m looking to create my own blog and would like to know where u got this from. thanks

    [Reply]

  • anil

    Mess? Because it is Congrape, it has to be a mess!

    [Reply]

  • Yeh Hai Hindustan, Meyree Jaan

    The evidence against Narendra Modi can fill the whole library of Congress.

    But he has been overwhelmingly elected thrice by Gujarati Hindu rapists, looters and arsonists.

    And 50% Bhagwad Gita Adherents want him as the next Crime Minister of Hindu stan.

    [Reply]

  • sktrisal@airtelmail.in

    if the reports that he got the arms consignment unloaded in his backyard are correct and that the purpose was to use them in case of a communal strife after the bombings,i feel he has been treated with kid gloves ,he should be retried under tada and treated as any other criminal with such activity

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    This article speaks about the pathetic judiciary of India, a country that should stayed as part of Britain for the next 1000 years so that the common man in India would have had some quality of life, understood values of civilized behavior.
    Coming to this issue, Sanjay Dutt appears to be paying a price for illegally owning a fire arm. How many Indians own fire arms – including politicians, their thugs, criminals (appears most of men folks are criminals!). Just because thousands of others undergo this ordeal, it does not mean that a group of people cannot get together to take up this cause and change it a tleast for one individual.
    If it cannot, judiciary has a duty to give a similar punishment to all those who have owned/who own fire arms without a license. It can be one of the Gandhis, all the politicians of Bihar, UP, and any number of states that India has. Then, you are talking about law and its application to all regardless of class and clout. I can think of Britain where this is possible (although Tony Blair is walking absolutely free, in fact, he is the Middle East Peace Envoy!!!), US is mother of India – corrupt, ruthless, and mostly ignorant.

    [Reply]

  • Jamal

    I did not see Sanjay Dutt suffering for 20 years. This man was making millions making movies and enjoying himself. Nobody tortured him. He is a criminal and must go to jail

    [Reply]

  • sumit

    well just because he is a flim star……he cant get away with punishment……he should b punished without any further delay….

    [Reply]

  • the truth

    It is a clear evidence of unequal law in India ! Are all the Indian politicians and many others living in the country like saints !

    [Reply]

  • Manjeet

    How about Carceration for Killing all the Sikhs in Delhi ? Why are those Politicians walking free NO JAIL & you have the Guts to say that Justice is done.Typical Hindu Mentality !!!!!

    [Reply]

  • Jai-Hanuman

    If he is criminal , then half of the Indian population is criminal. Do you have enough space in the jail. You do not have enough toilets in the country, what are you talking. I do not understand, whole country is now bothered about a person, can’t say he is not guilty, who is not a criminal, whereas, actual criminals are having fun in Pak. Does India have guts to grab them. Tell everyone in the world that India is impotent, If you have no guts to punish the actual culprits, please do not make fun of such idiotic acts of SC.

    [Reply]

  • V.Muthuswami

    Yes it is true and it is unequal. This time even with money, he could not buy the judgement he wanted. This is bound to happen with the kind of system we have including criminal justice system. I do not buy the sentimentality behind long personal suffering (maybe in A/C room comforts) and mental torture, et al.(how many crores he made during these years? Was he mentally ill?) because many of the thousands under-trials under go the same torture inside filthy jails in this idiotic country and how many hundreds of fisherman get killed just for fishing in the imaginative international sea boundary line (they are all illetrate and their lives move from day to day) by sundakkai Sri Lanki naval monsters.

    [Reply]

  • Ajay Kumar Sinha

    WE INDIANS HAVE STILL A FEUDAL THINKING SO SUCH TYPE OF THING IS ALWAYS HAPPENED . WE ARE NOT DEMOCRAT IN TRUE SENSE. WE ARE CARRYING A LEGACY OF FEUDAL SYSTEM

    [Reply]

  • APJain

    Agreed the judicial process super slow, but the delay of 20 years cannot be attributed to the SC alone. Now since the we all know that dutt was guilty of the crime, he could have as well admitted to crime 20 years back. But he didn’t, so complaining about 20 years delay is useless.

    [Reply]

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