President Obama, can you better Bush?



About a month ago, I had accompanied the ambassador of a foreign mission in New Delhi on a trip to a north Indian city on his personal invitation. I was seated with him in his car, as we drove along a glinting highway. We were constantly talking. Our banter focused on foreign relations, India’s meteoric rise and the economy, etc.

I asked the ambassador whether the world really shared our own perception of being a world power-in-waiting. In other words, what exactly do people in the US or Europe or elsewhere make of us?

Much to my satisfaction, the ambassador said the world indeed recognized India as a rapidly emerging power. But there is a problem, he said. India does not realize how much it can bargain diplomatically with its economic power, which China effectively does.

If a country China was dealing with will not yield to its demands, China would punch that country right in its nose and say, “give it or lose your market for good”. That’s what India fails to do, he said. We can’t assert ourselves.

I think the ambassador’s observations could not have been more relevant than now, when President Obama is visiting India.

After a widely expected drubbing in the US mid-terms, the American president has minced no words about his upcoming mission: to open up markets in Asian countries, such as India, for American business.

The goal is to get jobs faster, get the lives of middle-class Americans up and running faster and get the US economy moving again.

The US unemployment rate — the percentage of that country’s labour force without jobs — is 9.6%. Its lousy economy is struggling at mere 2%, while India’s growth rate is clocking 8%.

The American middle-class has not yet found its confidence back. Indians, on the other hand, are consuming tones of culturally auspicious gold and splurging handsomely on fireworks on the occasion of the Hindu festival Diwali — a sign of its prosperity.

So, what should we be doing? We should simply be negotiating from a position of strength.

A decade ago, India had no global company worth its name. Today, the Tata group earns half of its revenue from business abroad. There is no overall threat to the Indian economy as on date, save for a slightly high inflation.

When I say all this, I take away nothing from the fact that India and US share a great strategic interest, have common interest and goals. Both countries have come closer in newer ways that shape their respective destinies.

In the 50s, when India did not produce enough food to meet domestic demands, the US provided India with free as well as subsidized grains through the PL 480 regime. (PL 480 derives from the Public Law 480, also known as the Food for Peace Program, which is the US’ concessional food aid programme.)

I do not share the view among some that President Obama is here to mine for only jobs and to take away as much as he can for his country’s floundering economy. Business is never a zero-sum game. By definition, business is always bilateral.

For Muslims who are still uneasy about America, it is important to remember that India’s embrace of the US is not about selling its soul. It is about gaining in stature, internationally, and forging a mutually beneficial future.

I also do not agree with a section of the media and the Opposition for criticizing President Obama’s speech at the Taj in Mumbai for not mentioning Pakistan. Such criticism appears to me nothing but unproductive quibbling about details.

The US president is not here to badmouth Pakistan, though he did mention that country and terror emanating from its soil during an interaction session with Mumbai students. Diplomacy is not about loud-mouthed rhetoric but silent progress.

The transformation that the US’ relationship with New Delhi has undergone is a great turn-round from what it used to be during the Cold-War era. Now is the time to ambitiously turn that partnership to even more substantive interlock. President Obama must pick up from where his predecessor George Bush left.

However, let us not forget that the US desperately needs vast markets, such as India’s, which will buy its weapons, its processed foods, its technologies and products. Indian businesses are lapping up their competitors, acquiring global and US rivals menacingly. India itself remains a captive market of a billion-plus people, next only to China.

Addressing a press conference on November 3, immediately after his speech on the US mid-term election results, Obama hit upon the home truth. He said: “And we should be able to agree now that it makes no sense for China to have better rail systems than us and Singapore having better airports than us. And we just learned that China now has the fastest supercomputer on Earth. That used to be us.” Click for full text

Note the last sentence in the above quote: “That used to be us.” First, the Americans conceded manufacturing. Then, they gave away brain-intensive jobs. Now, Bangalore has better jobs than Boston. India has smartly turned itself into the world’s back-office. Americans want India to open up its retail, insurance and banking markets. On the foreign policy front, the US can only bank on India to counterweight China.

Richard Armitage, former deputy secretary of state, and Nicholas Burns, former under secretary of state for political affairs — who both serve on the Center for a New American Security — commissioned recent paper which stated that US should support India’s permanent membership in an enlarged United Nations Security Council.

Truth be told, the US is eyeing rich pickings from India. Therefore, India ought to pull off some smart deals and build on gains, such as the nuclear deal.

Let’s open up our markets for the US in return for tightening the screws on Pakistan, cracking down on terror emanating from it and limiting US military aid to that country.

India should munificently roll out its markets but push for a permanent seat in the Security Council. We must get the US to work harder for our national interests if we are to work for theirs. India’s economic surge should be at the heart of its foreign policy. And we must get President Obama to make Indo-US relationship a truly special one.

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  • Gopi Thomas

    Not only Indians are not assertive, they have stupid, “nobody cares”, goals. Similar to the perennial goals of many Indians to be in Guinnes Book of World records, and the newspeople talking about it – Mr X is now in the Guinnes Book of world records for the longest time in being in a toilet..

    The effort on permanent mebership in the security council is one like that. The relevancy of UN is totally questionable after the Iraq war. It is an institutition nobody cares. US Congress (especially with the republican victory) always wants to unfund the institution. India, instead of spending energy to become a permanent member of the UN, should go after growth in its economy, establish strategic power blocs, may be with US, with Russia, Germany whatever– because China is a commercial threat (they have to feed 1.5 billion like us), and Pakistan a permanent terrorist threat.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The tea party/republicans who won the election are already hitting Obama on his trip.. 1) that he is spending $200 Million on this travel ( a roght wing blog put this number and the whole republican crowd is running with that 2) this shows he is insensitive because “American jobs are lost to India”.

    With the domestic environment the way it is; the only areas where he can play smart and reposition for an elecftoral success is through some win-win with India, S Korea, Indonesia etc. Republicans will not allow him to create jobs in US..they want him as one term president; and they have already declared that.. So they will not give him any opportunity to be successful on the domestic front

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    For once I totally agree with the thrust of Zia’s article.
    Yes, that is what China does and we must learn to do.
    Also, while it is not our job to save Obama’s job :) we can probably make it easier for him by making public concessions (50,000 jobs for Americans ) while driving the hard bargains in private.
    Sample: you want us to buy Boeing?? Hmm.. okay; what about locating the Asia-regional service hub in India??
    Will we? Our past record with such negotiations do not fill me with confidence.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Zia says “for Muslims who are uneasy about America, it is not selling the soul to….”.

    Why is Zia making this statement? Why should Indian Muslims have a problem with America? Has America done specific damage to indian Muslims? Policies are executed country to country, not specific subset to subset of population.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Have you heard of UMMAH? When there is some kind of atrocities on non-Indian muslims, our muslims beat chest and cry for justice but when same non-indian muslims blow up some buildings, our Indian muslims distance themselves from their brothers…

    No one can understand muslim mind..

    hoojin2 Reply:

    I’d put an ‘AND’ between Security council seat and everything else.

    Going by the current state of world economy, there cannot be a security council without India and China.
    But how can a country that relies heavily on foreign-bought weapons, strive to make other nations more secure, i.e. strive for a security council seat ?

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Gopi,
    saw your post just now; been traveling..
    Yes, even I can’t understand this obsession with getting a permanent seat at the security council. Our sense of priorities is all scre wed up.

    [Reply]

    Dronacharya Reply:

    Gopi : You are here.. I have been looking for you all of Brindavan ! GOPI THOMAS… now listen. Write on real solid issues… What is India’s solid issue : What is India’s largest threat : It is not china or pakistan. It is RSS.

    RSS will undo India. The Idea of India., the Republic of India., and the Constitution of India. It has the potential to turn India into ashes. Nehru realised this early on… and he wrote it too… but we took it lightly (it fed our ego and majority machismo). But now we know the danger from this Hindutva Taliban. They will destroy Hinduism.

    GOPI THOMAS : You have lots of time on your hand., so i want you to write on the real danger to India.. which is from RSS. RSS is a terrorist organisation., and that is the plainest truth., plainly told. Infact it is the world’s largest terrorist organisation with its institutionalised riot systems. Read Martha Nassbaum’s book. There are thousands of commission of enquiry reports gathering dust implicating RSS. RSS’s mask (maukhata) has fallen… and we know now… what it really is. The cat is out of the bag.

    Read Martha Nassbaum’s book. Elaborate on the theme. Strengthen the IDEA of India. That is the greatest service u can do thru ur pen.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Zia ,your blog name “I am a muslim” needs to be changed to “I am a hindu through and through”,because all that you have written reeks of classical hindu delusion of granduer, a la Akhand Bharat of RSS ,that includes part of Iran.You describe american economy ,a lousy economy. Mate , those hundreed GE Jet engines were procured BECAUSE INDIA CANNOT MAKE THEM , Kaveri engine is a joke , cannot produce the required thrust.Now your Tata , do you know the unions of Jaguar Land Rover made sure Ford will continue to supply the engine and other technology , it was part of the contract with the unions, so much for confidence in Tata’s in house technology.As much you are going ga ga with obama’s visit for your information there is not even a passing reference in the news bulletin of CNN anf FOX news.More later..

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Zia,To take up from where i left . Yes the Tatas 50% of their income is from overseas.Well if you byu , Tetley Tea , Jaguar land rover , and Corus ,former brtish steel ,the revenue is bound to come from overseas, ANY ARAB SHEIKH can pull off that feat , its just matter of pouring money , THEY HAVE LEFT THE MANAGEMENT INTACT. Lotus car is owned by a malaysian group ,doesn’t mean malaysia is contributing even 1% of the technology .
    Next is ashish’s suggestion about india need to assert more.Well beggars can’t be choosers. If anybody is following the discussions on NDTV , apparently 65% of AMERICAN IMPORTS FROM CHINA IS PRODUCTS MADE IN CHINA FOR AMERICAN COMPANY.So much for chinese technological marvel. In 1970,s this was referred to as NEOCOLONISATION. As I have pointed out before every Iphone that APPLE assembles in china and sells for 450 dollars ,china makes 20 CENTS.
    now coming back to India.few facts .Why spice jet is buying BOEING ,if Hindustan aeronautics could make passenger jets. now you can say it could have bought AIRBUS.Well this where DUAL USE TECHNOLOGY KICKS IN. Exploding some fissile material in the deserts of pokhran is onething DESIGNING A BOMB TO FIT INTO A CONFINED SPACE LIKE MISSILE AND THEN CAUSING THE TRIGGER TO EXPLODE THE BOMB IS A QUANTUM LEAPMy hunch is India needs that badly. In pakistan’s case it was given GIFT WRAPPED BY CHINA.
    Also people like me who have a more than a passing interest in strategic matters are aware how fragile is india’s technological base in defence . just remember when USSR was being dismantled
    Ukraine sold T80 tanks to pakistan.Indian defence establishment started having goosebumps , because it had T70 tanks. It could not rely on ARJUN to do the job a word or two about Arjun. The engine is supplied MBB of Germany so is the electrohydraulic suspensionIndians rushed to Russia to ask them to supply T90 tanks.
    Next is submarine .When pakistan bought ?akula class submarine from France again panic set in though India had technology transfer from HDD of germany and built some six submarine
    again India rushed to France to build THE LATEST VERSION ?(I forgot the name) which was one generation later than the pakistani version.
    I have a feeling a lot of the chinese bullying that it gets away with is because of its NUKES, it can litter them all across the world particularly vis a vis IRAN . I remember watching Hilary Clinton on TV before the congressional committe,This were her words”We cant take military action against pakistan because pakistan has got NUCLEAR WEAPONS .she looked resigned defeated . same so called strength is shown by north korea.
    Only saving grace is pakistan’s growth rate according to one commentator is -1%,which I found baffling , beacuse all those aid is bound to put some number on the GDP growth rate.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This is from a man who loves his janabhomi, which incidently he shares with Musharaf.

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    shan Reply:

    This is from someone who loves his janmabhoomi , thust want his fellow countrymen to use rationality in every step, in contrast to the other gentlemen whose only maqsad is finding seventy virgins in heaven.even though it involves insanity like blowing oneself and other innocents.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    As we have established beyond a shred of doubt that what ever else you may be, you are neither HUMANIST nor RATIONALIST. You are a HINDU FUNDO, who mostly talks out of his arse.

    There is no gentle man here who is after virgins, that is just the product of you cancer ridden brain. Even Zia, who is born a Muslim does not crave for virgins. Hardly any one does, other than in the imagination of HINDU FUNDOs and their warped propaganda.

    Please go to your local Chemist in Radford and submit the prescription given to you by Dr Togadia.

    ram autar Reply:

    Says the three “eminent” Congress leaders — Lal, Bal, Pal — engineered partition of India. Hindu terrorist Savarkar’s call to “Hinduise politics and militarise Hinduism” inflicted so much violence on Muslims.

    Calcutta University was a Hindu fortress. Most Hindus in every village were richer than the richest Muslim. Not a single Muslim had cultivable land in my village. In the 80s, Hindu communalism transformed into Hindu fascism.

    It was the Muslim invaders who gave us the name “Hindu”. Savarkar formulated the “two-nation theory” much before Jinnah. The worst anti-Muslim culprit was Bankim Chandra Chatterji, a Bengali Brahmin, the author of Vande Mataram. Muslims never observed untouchability. That is how Dalits opted for Islam in a big way and got liberated.

    Muslim rulers Indianised themselves. Dalits fought Brahmins and when defeated embraced Budhism and fought them again after becoming Muslims. Bengali Muslims are mostly Dalit converts. Even Swami Vivekananda said “Islam was a great blessing and liberated the oppressed”. Upper castes partitioned Bengal. Gandhi was a cunning fox” and “a Hindu revivalist”.

    “Babri Masjid” was a Hindu conspiracy

    DUDE Reply:

    i PITY YOU FOOL!

    ISLAM IS RUBBISH LIKE YOUR DUMB WEAK ANCESTORS WHO WERE CONVERTED BY 786 ARAB CHOPCOKS!

    RE OCNVERT TO YOUR ANCESTRAL RELIGION AND BECOME FREE OF HATE, WHICH IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES YOUR KIND! HATE!

    ISLAM = NOT PEACE!

    KASHMIR IS IAND OF ALL INDIANS! PAKISTAN IS INDIA!!!!!!!!!! BANGERSTAN IS INDIA!!!!!!!!!! AFGHANSTAN IS INDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WAKE UP FOOL!!!!!!!!! ONE DAY I WILL RECLAIM IT ALL ! ALL YOU MUSLIMS WILL PERISH!

    BLOODY MOHAMMED THE PEADO! YOU WORSHIP A PEADO!

    DO SOME REAL FACTUAL HISTORY RESEARCH! NOT THAT MADE UP BULL THAT YOU LEARN IN PAKISTAN DAY CAMP!

    shan Reply:

    Incidentally Musharaff was born in naye haveli in old delhi , in contrast to someone whose was named after the river that flows along with sutlej in one dangerous part of the world.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    As we have established beyond a shred of doubt that what ever else you may be, you are neither HUMANIST nor RATIONALIST. You are a HINDU FUNDO, who mostly talks out of his arse.

    There is no gentle man here who is after virgins, that is just the product of you cancer ridden brain. Even Zia, who is born a Muslim does not crave for virgins. Hardly any one does, other than in the imagination of HINDU FUNDOs and their warped propaganda.

    Please go to your local Chemist in Radford and submit the prescription given to you by Dr Togadia.

    Last time I looked at my birth certificate, it said I was born in Dehradun and incidentally Ravi is the Sun God.

    I guess your hand is a bit tang in Sanskrit, since it has been benumbed by your special illness which even Dr Togadia can not help you with.

    Oh by the way perhaps you can inform the public at large as to where Dr Manmohan Singh was born, and what therefore is his janambhomi, does he share that with you.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    “hardlry any one is after 70 virgins…….”, well, all jehadi martyrdom videos that the jehadis handlers take as recruiting vehicle, talks about the guy waiting for his 70 or whatever virgins waiting for him. So, there are few (may be millions) of Muslims bel;ieving in this. Even Zia may be –who knows? Do you know ? Has he told you

    Ravi Reply:

    ALI SHAN

    Here are three popularly accepted definition of RATIONALITY.

    A. the quality of being consistent with or based on logic

    B. In philosophy, rationality and reason are the key methods used to analyze the data gathered through systematically gathered observations. …

    C. The quality or state of being rational; agreement with reason; possession of reason; due exercise of reason; reasonableness; Objectivity, thoughtfulness

    Here are some statements made by you.

    Please can you enlighten people visiting by matching each of these statements with one of the definitions listed above.

    Simply say for example 1A or 6C, etc.

    1. (as much pinko pseudo liberals want that to disappear ,it aint going to go away)

    2. also somebody should have sent her a DVD of the movie MARKET starring Monisha Koirala ,which showed Arabs sixty plus coming to hyderabad for nikah (read only sex as they vanish, and it is happening with saudis all over the world and the mullahs have come up with a new terminology for this kind of one night stand and authenticated under the aegis of quoran) with thirteen year old.

    3. @Ashish,That is your opinion and that’s fine.I think it is bizarre to expect a market of such a third grade book that too on indian economy in UK.I dont know if you are There are more takers of Jeffrey , caught with a hooker Archer in India than USA,and that is a fact according to sales figures.The point about mental enslavement is very important .

    4. So What does Miss Roy and her chela bobby suggest. Leave kashmir in the hands OF FIDAYEEN .
    Apparently the scums (azadi jihadi complex) told the pandits MEN FOLKS LEAVE , YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR WOMEN FOLKS BEHIND

    5. @Ram Autar , you f u ck ed up as sh ole , why dont you you emigrate to bangladesh we bloggers will pay for your passage.

    6. Far more pressing isFORTY PERCENT people in Marxist west bengal do not have food all through the year THEY GO HUNGRY , hunger is widespread , every research has shown this. So those firingee inspired dreams for another day.

    7. Why doesn’t Prof Nandi come to these blogs , I for one will give him a hard time. Perhaps because he breathes the fetid air of delhi it makes him completely oblivious to the current state of affairs in WHITE WORLD.

    8. @Bobby , Bamiyan Buddha wasa UNESCO HERITAGE SITE. If Babri masjid was I WOULDN’T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT RAM LALA , it needed to be prserved just like Taj Mahal . But it wasn’t IT WAS A DERELICT unused mosque , SO I CANT SEE A GREAT DEAL OF PROBLEM THERE. As regards Shiv Sena it is Glioblastoma grade4(the most vicious cancer known to man). In fact I have commented elsewhere I think it is far far far grave danger to india’s security, this is one virus if not exterminated will one day eat up the whole body politic and there will not be an India as we know it.

    9. @gopi thomas, no need for oops, both are valid . To call india secular is like calling bin laden , a gandhian

    10. Hindus should ask for “holocaust type reparations” from Muslims.
    Muslims killed 80 million hindus and forcefully converted many under violence/death/jizya.
    muslims should be ashamed of all the things..instead they want to continue this jihad..

    11. @MJ akbar is a hypocrite through and through , he was rabidly vocal against the supreme court verdict in shah bano case. Also he was a congress lackey , now is an example of a perfect turncoat.

    So Dr Shan, from the comfort of your Coventry home, can you review some of your statements and match each of them to the definitions of RATIONALITY reproduced above.

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    No Zia has not told me anything about how many virgins he has been promised, should he choose to commit suicide in the name of Islam.

    However, what do you think.

    What in your opinion is the likely hood that Zia has been radicalised and very soon will be duped into waging Jehad against innocent people like you and I.

    I will concede that all Jehadi’s may believe about Virgins etc etc, they still remain a tiny minority. A irritating minrity, but still a mniority.

    However, all that is blown out of proportion by those who have a Hindu Fundo Axe to grind.

    More productive discussion will be why is it that so many people can so easily be duped into this kind of thinking. That will be an interesting discussion.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    You do not need a “majority” to create havoc. 11/26 was done by less than 20 -eople. 9/11 was done by 20 people. So, the statement that it is only a “minorirty” does not make any sense.

    And it is not just people “who have a Hindu fundo Axe to grind”. It is by majority of the people all over the world. US, Denmark, germany, UK, Netherlands, France — all over.

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    In principle I do not disagree that havoc can be caused by a minority of people and that is what currently a minority Muslims are doing.

    My point is that NOT ALL MUSLIMS are like that. All Muslims do not believe that upon committing suicide they will be rewarded by 70 virgins etc. That is just a ruse used by Radical Preachers to entice would be jehadists.

    I notice that you did not accept my invitation to discuss the REASONS behind the current turmoil rather than just list incidents and their perpetrators. We already know them.

    So once again share your views as to WHY do you think this is happening.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    I could be a zillion dollar consultant to US Defence or INdia Defence or Uk etc if I knew why these fukkers do this.

    Obviously Saudi Arabian extremists are spreading their version of “pure” Islam, and brainswashing many with money, materials, an d thrills. Pakistan ISI is doing the same thing, Mrs Bhutto thru Hamid Gul recruited and indoctrinated Jehadis, originally aimed at India, now out of control. Many Muslims and muslim leaders, instead of self examination and changing/growing from within, are in a whining and blaming and denying mode… “I am uneducated because somebody denied me…”
    And most importantly, the rot learning and stupid teachings of uneducated Mullahs at an early age to (most) of the Muslims keep them away from interactinga nd integrating with others, with out of date notions like believer and non believer, muslims country and non muslims country, and creates big divides in little minds–unfortunately almost all Muslims go through this religious education right from the beginning. Some follow Quran literally and do the killings.

    A vast number of life hating world hating non_muslim (and may be other forms of Muslims) hating people have been cultivated; and they will recruit more and the “parampara” will continue.

    The solution has to come from within Muslims forcing a breakaway from these hijackers, similar to the reformation of the church centurues ago. For too many, the Book is in conflict with democracy, law, education. The challenge for Muslims is how to sepaarte the Book into ones own personal life away from the social and working lives

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    Almost all the elements you have listed are valid contributers to the re-emergence of radical Political Islam that we are witnessing presently.

    However, what do you think is the contribution being made by the US/European foriegn policy. I think that they are at the root of all of this.

    US’s need for energy security is the primary reason why it is in the middle east. The violent reaction to this policy is the secondary reason why US is in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    US policy in Palestine/Isarel is also a major player.

    Iran’s desire to establish its regional hegemony and US’s need to oppose this is a coroloary to the one above.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    I do not think any of this has any relation or cause . Palestinian issue has been there sixty plus years.

    And what doe s it have to do with these crazies bombving Sufi shrines, Ahmadiyas, etc on a daily basis in Pakistan? Why the bombing and mayhem in Mumbai 11/26..

    These are fukkers, should be wiped off

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, are you sure about your birth certificate , not a forgery which turned Dera adam khan to dehra. and weall know where dera adam khan is.

    Ravi Reply:

    Dera Adam Khan, now let me look at Google maps and see if it is one of those pubs that has recently closed in Coventry.

    Now my memory is a bit vague but I do clearly remember that to get to Dera Adam Khan one had to change two trains.

    1st Change was at a station called RATIONALIST and the

    2nd One was at HUMANIST.

    For those who are confused. This congenital idiot brands himself as a RATIONALIST and a HUMANIST but in reality is a HINDU FUNDO.

    I have listed his insincere proclamations in this blog to save you all some time and to introduce the real man behind his bogus facade.

    His only answer is to label me as a Muslim from Pakistan.

    ram autar Reply:

    95%OF MUSLIMS ARE SON OF SOIL.CONVERTED &LIBERATED from the shackles of brhmnsm.
    while 100%vedics are outsider(as there is no conversion) came here and plundered this sacred land and starved the locals by stealing their wealth.MAOIST MOVEMENT IS ALL ABOUT THIS.

    [Reply]

    farid Reply:

    @ram autar,

    I AGREE WITH –”‘ -95%OF MUSLIMS ARE SON OF SOIL ‘”

    Our parents use to claim–they were not natives.Similarly local Christians also use to claim they were European descendants.In 1952 some of our boys were shot to death for
    demanding BANGLA as the official language of Pakistan.This incident shook the BENGALI MUSLIMS —they searched their roots and returned to their roots—Now they are living in their homeland–Motherland– BANGLADESH .
    WE FEEL PROUD —TO BE —BANGLADESHI.
    WE ARE ALSO MUSLIMS//HINDUS//CHRISTIANS//BUDDHIST –IN PLACES OF WORSHIP IN OUR PRIVATE LIFE.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Shan,
    Amazing tour de farce! Through technology, strategy, economics and what have you..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I agree with you.

    A simple collection of disperate facts/opinions adding upto nothing more than a desperate rant of jumped up right wing idiot.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    “… jumped up right wing idiot”..
    Actually just an idiot. Right wing/ reactionary– that’s me!

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, who for obvious reason likes GREEN colour , has now become green due to that green eyed monster.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    Yet another RATIONAL statement from a deranged Dr. Who for obvious reasons likes the Bhagwa Colour because he has been drinking too much TANGO.

    I am not Jealous of any thing you may have; I just pity you because you stew in your own fetid juices.

    What about that prescription Dr Tootgaya gave you, have you gone to the chemist yet.

    Only a sad ghit would read Jane’s Aeroplanes, etc etc. So not only you are a Hindu Fundo, you are also an anorak.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, disperate, word only found in dictionary printed in pakistan , and can be accessed by people of that country.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN – The vivisectioned chimpanzee.

    Once you have finished finding the meanings of RTATIONALIST & HUMANIST, then you a Hindu FUNDO an Islamophobe, who is unable to defend his own statements. You will find this:

    dis•pa•rate distinct in kind; essentially different; dissimilar: disparate ideas.

    Courtesy of Pkaistan.com, the source of all your twaddle.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish, I remember someone describe you as a loser and a one legged cockcroach.When you dont have counter argument , you resort to abuse that too piggybacking on someone else’s abuse. Well you have described yourself a rightwing reactionary err that means you like to share and enjoy showering with Pravin Togadia , Vinay katiyar, Ashok Singhal and somebody from your caste
    the thackeray scums and chums. Well these people is thought to suffer from a common problem , they keep watching TV or keep on blogging downstairs , while the wife is waiting upstairs for amorous embrace. But they dread to face that situation because as much the desire pounds them , the end organ does not respond like a dead telephone.
    I think a SKUNK best describes you. To releive you of your ignorance , this particular animal smells because it likes to roll over on the puddle of its own urine.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish that “tour de farce” owes a lot to Jane’s All the world’d ship, All the world’s aircraft, a regular visit to WH Smith for Air International , and good reading of James Perkovitch’s book “India’s Atomic Bomb ” and another one which I have bought but not been able to start , India’s nuclear Posture.Perhaps you need to keep in mind the average income in UK and India.

    [Reply]

    hami Reply:

    bakwas aadami. do ur work. u r mumurmurring faltu comments here always. it is wasting time. nobody will accept ur words.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Amusing to see how disturbed you are with India’s progress that all you have are haphhazardly gathered info which are of minor consequence.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.faithfreedom.org Jindal

    Sumit Ganguly has written a fine piece in Newsweek this April that “Barack Obama is in danger of reversing all the progress his predecessors, including George W. Bush, made in forging closer U.S. ties with India. Preoccupied with China and the Middle East, the Obama administration has allotted little room on its schedule for India, and failed to get much done in the short time it did make.” While some initial baby steps are commendable, President Obama’s administration hasn’t done enough to enhance US-India relations. The main issue here is that his team has tried too hard to cooperate with China in addressing regional and global challenges and has not done enough to bolster India. http://carnegieendowment.org/events/?fa=eventDetail&id=3062

    Washingtonian think tanks suggest that the US can best serve its interests and those of India by ensuring that its policies toward India do not undermine the pursuit of wider international cooperation on these global issues. IMO, there’s some ultra-cautiousness dealing with India, and way too lax when it comes to China. It should be the other way around, and that’s just plain common sense, given where things are headed. New Delhi hasn’t pointed this out, neither has there been an effort on Indian think tanks to lay out convergence of interests, which has been somehow read as divergent interests in Washington.

    Washington’s argument has been that the US can only contribute marginally to India’s success or failure. New Delhi needs to come clear that what is been asked for is as simple as avoiding a Beijing-Washington consensus before making calls on various issues. The fruitlessness of such a posture is evident.

    Three of the five permanent members of the UNSC — Russia, the United Kingdom, and France — had already endorsed India’s candidacy, leaving only the US and China “as strange bedfellows that have resisted the inclination to support New Delhi’s claims.” This is the time for President Obama to refuse kowtowing to Chinese pressure and categorically state that it is in US interests to openly support a UNSC permanent seat for India, and also get the job done. At the same time, President Obama should also accelerate India’s assimilation into global non-proliferation bodies such as the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Missile Technology Control Regime, the Australia Group, and the Wassenaar Arrangement.

    The House goes to the Republicans in mid-terms elections leaving another two years for President Obama to deliver game changing results at home and abroad. Indeed, not just Americans, but the world awaits on his promise of hope and change we can believe in. Unless quality output comes out of think tanks, for the foreseeable future, the three states will simply operate a triangular relationship, with none of them being close partners of the others.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I read somewhere that US Diplomats love dealing with Pakistani diplomats, in spite of all the landmones theer are in Pakistan, because dealing with them is easier and pleasant compared to dealing with Indians. Indians apparently bring a “holier than thou” attitude, and never conclude any treaty that will deliver goods.

    Both US and India are at a critical juncture. India, taking off in many fronts, but still a long way to go technologically. US at a cross road, may be at the beginning of a long decline from which it may never recover. USA has the scientific and technologoical know-how, leading reserach centers; and will be a scientific powerhouse for at least another 30 uyears or even more. Lot of room for technology transfer.. It will help US if Indian income rises. India should shed its socialist era distrust of US; structure right treaties. There is a lot of room for cooperation in Defence. security,a ntiterrorism etc . So also, in high yield agriculture, infrastructure development, and other critical areas. We should not get into stupid areas such as insurance, financials ervbices..because there is no need. However, consider thema s quid pro quad for getting access to our key needs

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    US treats India as a freind and a potential ally.

    However, it treats Pakistan suspiciously and with caution. That is the reason why the US administration has diplomats who keep a very close eye on the Pakistani establishment.

    I suggest that you read Bob Woodward’s Obama’s Wars, that will tell you a lot about how this thorny relationship is being managed.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @jindal, You do not demand respect , you command respect. apparently In “white” papers of the west in 1970 they made derogatory remarks about Sumo Wrestling, something like a group of blubbers fondling each other. fast forward to 1986, a sumo wrestling match held in paris , tickets sold out in one hour. This is what happens when you have something to show to the world. Take Videocon. The owners are sugar cane /sugar mills owner. Cant expect a game changerv product from these people. I just cant understand why they cant break into the EU market. Their thinking is backward, they apparently bought the CRT making factory from Thompson CSF of france. It is like somebody buying the technology of Hindustan ambassador. I remember there was a pullout in the highlt esteemed scientific journal NATURE on science in India. There was a line that has stuck with me ever since “INDIA’S GREATEST AND MOST GENEROUS GIFT TO AMERICA IS ITS IIT’S.
    Well you can’t expect a topper from IIT to work for CK Birla in Hindustan Motors , do you and also he will be not welcome like a serious actor in David Dhawan or karan johar movie.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Jindal

    I read SHAN’s response to you, and wondered if there was a point being made. There are anecdotes but hardly a point, beyond that – RESPECT is commanded.

    Although it hurts me but I am ready to admit that I agree with SHAN.

    I was in the crowd standing near Petit Pont in Paris, watching the procession of Sumo Wrestler go by.

    I noticed that in the crowd there were proportionally more Indian’s than one would expect at an event like this – once in a life time Novelty Sumo Wrestling. That got me thinking what the reason was for this over representation of Indians in the crowd. I did not have to wait long for an answer.

    The last Sumo wrestlers in this magnificent procession was holding something large and ungainly in his hand and that there was some thing sticking out of his tightly tied langot. I waited patiently, and swan necked over the crowd in front of me, to see what the objects this distinguished Sumo wrestler was carrying were.

    I could not clearly see, such was the density of crowd. However, I plucked up my courage and asked the man standing next to me, if I could borrow his binoculars. He readily lent them to me, as by then he had lost all interest in the parade. Through the binoculars I could clearly see that the last wrestler was carrying a Thomson TV made in India. As the wrestler passed me I saw that the object tucked into his tight langot was a magazine whose title was Jane’s Aircraft bought at the Coventry branch of W.H. Smiths. All the Indians in the crowd were chanting.

    KYA SHAN HAI, KYA SHAN HAI

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @jindal, I read the posting to you by ravi, I cannot help agreeing with him . A lady came to casualty , apparently beaten and black and blue , because as she was having a headache , she refused sex. but her husband , his name surprise surprise Ravi, showed the religiuos text and insisted on fulfilling his demand , when she still refused to relent , he beat her and said he was a DEEPLY RELIGIOUS MAN nad doing his religious duty(That is beating his wife for refusuing sex)

    Ravi Reply:

    Jindal

    This is absolutely true. My wife was in queue behind a semi naked junju wearing man whose butt cheeks had been branded by his own Doctor Tootgaya with words RATIONALIST and HUMANIST.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi
    meaning to ask for a long time; what on earth is a junju?
    Do you mean the “janeu” the sacred thread the Hindu brahmins wear?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ashish,
    There was no need to correct him on Junju…Now you have added one more INDIAN word in this Jihadis vocabulary.
    He uses pakistani version of hindi words in all his posts..I can see thru this talibani..why can’t you guys? Just ignore this talibani.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish :) :) :)

    I am surprised you felt the need to ask this question.

    Would you not like to know who Dr Tootgaya is.

    I think the Muslim, who beats his wife because she is refusing him sex, is probably the best person to answer this from his Pakistani PC with a readily identifiable IP Address.

    What do you think Mon ami

    ram autar Reply:

    she refused sex. but her husband , his name surprise surprise Ravi, showed the religiuos text and insisted on fulfilling his demand , when she still refused to relent , he beat her and said he was a DEEPLY RELIGIOUS MAN nad doing his religious duty(That is beating his wife for refusuing

    shan it is only in hindus that women of every class is beaten.they are burnt alive if husband dies,sent to brindaban if become old,killed if dowry is less.in bhagwad geeta,killing of women is not sin.
    in ur holy scripture every type of degrotary adjectives are use for women.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    no, I was honestly puzzled. I even googled the word to find out if it has a meaning that I am not aware of.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ashish,
    Google “Sikh Junju”….Even the most ignorant hindu know what ‘janeau’ is..

  • http://techcentral.in Kunal

    The bargaining chip is not just with us. We need the US too to counter China. India opening it’s markets for US and the US pushing us for a greater role in the region is win-win for both countries. US has already played it’s part by opening the dual use technologies. The UNSC seat however is not just the decision of the USA. That will take time.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Kunal

    Well said.

    It is true that there is an opportunity for India to accelerate its development by making sensible alliances as well as trade deals.

    I am of the opinion that, in the long run, India needs to have a China focused strategy and not just Pakistan Strategy.

    If Pakistan Generals are India centric, does not mean that India should be Pakistan Centric.

    We should put Pakistan into a box called – troublesome neighbour – and move on.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    yes, it will be great if we can put pakistan in a box and move on. But how? with nukes and terrorists and no civilian govt to speak off, how can this be done. I do believe the best startegy is to be without them…but how

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Kunal,
    the bargaining chips are always spread among the players.. a shrewd negotiator plays his hands well.
    Only as a lesson in real-politik and not a lesson on morality (this has to be said, because angry reactions like “china-lover” will be forthcoming), we should study what China did in the wake of the Tiananmen massacre.
    See, China was nowehere as powerful, economically, militarily then as they are now. But, they still stood their ground.
    So, India needs to know what its strong cards are, what things they want to get out of US, in the order of priorities and play well and hard.
    Not just over this visit but consistently.
    @Ravi,
    putting Pakistan in a box is a wish. But, Pakistan will not play ball. Our worldview has to include Pakistan till Pakistan’s worldview is shaped by India.
    International dimplomacy is a “Massively Multiplayer” chess game; those with the strongest cards/ positions do not always win.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    ASHISH

    I am sure you are right.

    However, what I meant is that we should give Pakistan disproportionate attention and resources. Because if did so it will be playing it tinto their hand.

    India is progressing and should continue to progress. Focusing on Pakistan any more than is neccessary in my view is a waste of resource.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    There is a – NOT – missing from my first clumsily constructed sentence, the rest are not much better. I am sure you get the sense of what I meant.

    Regards

    Ravi

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, the NOT is missing because your foreskin is missing

  • Binoy Hegde

    It is true that Bush, may be ebcause of his naivity or simplicity, wanted to enhancee the relations with India right from his day one onwards. The first ambassador hes ent to India (before otehr prestigious European positions) was Mr Robert Blacknell, his close friend and campaign finance chief. He genuinely wanted to expand relation s with the largest d mocracy (we all know he was a big democracy believer).

    However the Muslim terrorist attack on WTC changed the whole course;a nd he could attend to india only towards the end of his term.

    Mr Blacknell is activelyinvolved in India-US relationship expansion, always defending India and its great possibilities and future in all the think tank forums.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I do not believe that Obama is following a different policy to the one that was followed by Bush. I just think Obama is dealing with a different set of priorities.

    I think that US policy towards India remains unchanged, just that currently there are other high priority issues that are occupying US resources.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.faithfreedom.org Jindal

    Obama will have to talk up India’s geostrategic importance as a counterfoil to China’s Middle Kingdom-colonialism and Pakistan’s potential implosion. There would be much to gain in nudging India toward closer relations with other Asian countries, all of whom seek to guard against Chinese hegemony. Would a kind of understated, loosely defined “east Asian Nato” be the answer, comprising Japan, India, Indonesia, Thailand, South Korea and Taiwan? (This may even come to be a way of coaxing Vietnam into greater democracy.) This needn’t be an exercise exclusively in security: All of these countries crave a way to build commercial relations that don’t have to crisscross China all the time. All of this would encourage India to start thinking furiously of its future stature in the region—and help it to secure its goal of a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council.

    Washington would love to hand off a part of the expense, worry and responsibility of incessantly prodding Asian security into place by helping to set up a self-perpetuating local architecture, with India as a kind of pillar. That would spare the U.S. the headache of needing to confront every threat to stability as the 24/7 global enforcer. This notion might, of course, strike some of us as far-fetched, not least because India seems so unprepared for such a role. In that case, it’s time for India to grow up and get itself a pair of chopsticks. This is not a matter of being America’s poodle (as India’s legion of tedious leftists are wont to bleat) so much as India protecting its own security and prosperity, and its own ideals—indeed, doing so in a manner that does not crave a U.S. umbrella.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    China is the manufacturer for the world. Many sovereign nations are behaving like markets (except China). US , through uncontrolled and unregulated “free market” has become a throwaway market for otehrs to play.

    The issue then becomes who can dislodge China..or wait till some other low manufturing wage country will siphon the manufacturing away from China.. US does not like Choina, but they are interconnected like a ying/yang. Walmart brought low prices thru China connection. China is sitting on a pile of US dollars/bonds. So, US really acnnot do anything about China.

    IS there a contrarian possibility? What if India and China have treaties? Is China a reliable patrty? Our 1962 history says that Nehru and Chou en Lai signed the India/China Bhai Bhai, and China attacked us four days after Nehru came back from Beijing.

    Can we minimize our defense expenditure by relying on a NATO type structure, or getting reimbursement from US for manning the Indian Ocean etc

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    Question: “President Obama, can you better Bush?”
    He does better, in the art of talking. In the way of winning people with promises.

    He has got the contracts which he needed most (for securing american’s jobs) and has shown us the dream of permanent seat in Security council. What is there to gain by having a seat in SC?Germany doesn’t have a seat. UK, France have. Who is more influential among them in world economy? Our dream is to become superpowers in economy not military. For that, we need to borrow technology and exchange of scientific idea (that culture) from US. Becoming a “world monitor” might boost our image but does nothing to improve our economic status. India should have insisted more on technological investments rather than image boosting words. End of the day, what have we got? Some praises and some promises. Can we run our world, just with dreams? Liked it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYQrH-E74gA&feature=related

    But I liked Man Mohan Singh’s tone when he said, “Indians are not in the business of stealing jobs from Americans”. If cheap labour was the only factor and not skills, then American jobs would have been shifted to Africa not to India.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @vinay, 100% agree, you forgot to mention SWEDEN 90 lakh population, makes two world class cars VOLVO and SAAB , gave the world Abba , Bjorn Borg in Tennis, Ericcson is world leader in Telecommunication, so is Astra who invented OMeprazole , the anti ulcer drug , not to forget BOFORS gun , which Americans have in their armoury , and that invincible SAAB VIGGEN jet fighter , apparently saab wanted to jointly devolope this jet with India but the likes of imbecile Ashish in Govt turned down the offer . And yes it is yet another Tour de force on sweden for the attention Ashish, the proud posseser of pneumatic cranium

  • Ravi

    One of the items on Obama’s itinerary was a Visit to Mahatma Gandhi memorial Raj Ghat. In his speech, Mr Obama also paid tribute to independence leader Mahatma Gandhi, saying: “I am mindful that I might not be standing before you today, as president of the United States, had it not been for Gandhi.”

    No one corrected him by saying the he would not have been standing there at all had it not been for Golimarkar, an ex member of RSS.

    What was also not very well publicised is that fact the BJP had insisted that when Obama visits the Parliament he must put a garland around the pictures of walrus moustachioed freedom fighters, Shalwarpehankar and Golimarkar.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Ravi

    You are a green flag man, from Pakistan, as Mr Shan has been saying (And as Mr Ashish attributed to you for your wholescale/sale picking up articles from Rupeenews and Islamabad Globe)

    What does RSS have to do with Obama’s visit? Obama is on a goodwill visit, The two countries will declare new treaties; so what is your beef? How do you know what BJP wanted Obama to do? And does Obama care what BJP wanted? Are there even pictures of Golimarkar (whoever he is) in the Parliament?

    And why woold you make a statement that Obama will not be standing there at all if not for this RSS guy? Do you think that the nation would not have built a RajGhat for Gandhiji containing his ashes if he had a normal death. Would not any visiting dignatory visit the tomb of the father of the nation whether he had a normal death or was assassinated.

    Looks like you have two problems. 1) You do not like Obama visiting India and. giving attention to India 2) You do not like any foreign dignatory giving trespect to Mahathama Gandhiji (your Islamabad Globe is running a series on how corrupt and morally depraved Gandhiji was)

    You have stooped too low.

    There is a time and a palce for everything. This was neither the time, nor the palce for this statement/s

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Singh,
    You must see how pakistanis are hopping mad after Obama verbally endorsed India’s quest for UNSC (which is totally unneccesary looking at current health of UN).
    This talibani is just displaying pakistani emotion on this forum.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    S SINGH

    Here is a challenge.

    Find any one of my posts which has been lifted from any where. I will cease contributing to this blog. I would like a para from my post and a link where it comes from, unless ofcourse this is when I reproduce items from the net on the destruction of Budhists and Jain temples.

    You are a H I N D U F U N D O and an I S L A M O P H O B E who is uanble to take any cricism and resorts to name calling, Because you do not have the intelect to make any point at all.

    What has Obama got to do with your organisation RSS. Well it was a reference to BJP insisting on have the Shalwarpehnkar’s Photograph in the Parilament, where Obama went and the fact how so many of you do not miss the opportunity to defame Mahatam Gandhi.

    Everytime one goes to Raj Ghat one is reminded of his untimly death at the hands of a H I N D U F U N D O’s bullet. Ofcourse there would have been a smadhi and yes people would have gone there to pay their respect.

    The problems you mention are a figment of your jaundiced imagination, and has no logical connection to what I said.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You muslims should not be talking about Gandhi…You supported Jinnah against Gandhi..

    Ravi Reply:

    S SINGH

    I will accept that there was an element of obscure logic as well as unwarranted venom in this particular post of mine.

    However, please try and put this in the context that SHAN and RAJEEV have been labelling me as a Pakistani. Come to think of it, so did you in a previous post and in this post too.

    You need to get away from this notion that any one, who offers a point of view that is not in accordance with the Hindu Right Wing way of thinking, must be a Muslim and/or a Pakistani.

    Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I was born in Dehradun, and brought up in Delhi. I went to The Air Force Central School and then on to the Khalsa College. I was the secretary of its Student’s Union in my final year.

    More than 3 generations of my family have served in all three Major Forces of India.

    I mention this just so we can move on from this point and have sensible discussions.

    Here is my definitive statement. I am a L I B E R A L H I N D U, accept that.

    The moment some one here calls me a Pinko and/or Pseudo Secular, I will respond in kind and include the words HINDU FUNDO’s and SAFFRON TERRORISM in all my posts. Not one instance of name calling or emotional humbug will go un answered and I will promise that some of the answers may well be unpalatable and impolite. I am no gentleman, I am a street fighter. I make no appologies for it.

    The choice is yours.

    As I think I have mentioned several times before, two can play the name calling game. Ask Mr SHAN.

    So here is a proposal.

    You guys focus on points that other bloggers and I make here and not resort to name calling, I will cease this unproductive form of discussion.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    One word “Junju”

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi Azhar,
    Do you visit sikhnet.com? I know a person who has identical profile as you who is a khalistani and pucca pro-pakistan. He may be pakistani himself just like you.

    S Singh Reply:

    Ok Ravi, live and let live. I too am a liberal Hindu. (Which Hindu is not liberal? Whicch Hindu king banned other religions –now dont come up with killing jains and budhists – did the Gujrat cpoast accept Parsis? Did the Kerala coast accept christians ? Did the kerala coast accept Msulims (long before the invaders came up north) …Why do you say “you folks dont miss an opportunity to defame Mahathma Gandhi”? I am not aware of organizations defaming Mahathmaji.. although some individuals may have pro or anti opinions on some of his actiosns, but not on the great man himself..

    For whatever it is worth – Mahathma Gandhi is my favorite leader. I have cried in front of his pictures. He understood India, its every nook and corner. Humanity was his religion. Simplicity was his life. Non-violence was the foundational pillar for him. I belive lasting changes can come only through non-violence. Why did india not wither away as western Pundits predicted – with all its regional differences, language peculiarities, religious differences, and customs… It is a proof and testimony to that great man.

    And you know why Pakistanis . will never get out of their mess — not only they believe they are descendents of Arabs, they put all these venom on this great man , who is revered all over teh world, — just look at Rupeenews site nd islamabad Globe site.. Even if they believe in all that, it is sheer stupidity to put those out, because the mere fact of putting it out will only increase the tarffic on Mahathmaji sites and interest in him.

    Let us accept it. Mahathmaji will live hundred years from now. You (I do not know) a nd I (for sure) will be dead and gone. Pakistan may not exist.

    The google hits on Mahathmaji averages 2 million per day, even now, after 65 years of his death (or killing as you may prefer to say). By the way I will not qualify it as “untimely” death; MAhathmaji was quite old when the Hindu assassin killed him..

    I read in one of the blogs that Mrs Indira Gandhi, being a shrewd cunny woman, did not change her name after divoirce; she kept the GAndhi name, because she knew , two generations after, when Mahathmaji is just a concept and admiration for the country, Indian citizens will think her grand and great grand children are Mahathmajis great great great grandchildren. She knew the brand value. A poll conducted recently proved as much – that 40% of indians believe Rahul GAndhi is Mahathma Gandhiji’s great grandson!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Singh,
    Why are you getting fooled? This guy has no respect for Gandhi, he is using Gandhi for his hate-hindu agenda.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Mr Singh

    Jews also came through the southwest coast; and they were received and provided with land and special rights. There are still four or five synagogues in Kerala (the most prominent one ibeing in Kochi ); Kochi also has a Jewish Street

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi
    As a celebrated advertising Guru once said, “stay away from the men who proclaim their honesty from the rooftops, but embrace the women who proclaim their virtue!”

  • shan

    @Ashish and his homoerotic soul mate Ravi, just a small cut and paste
    James T Cassidy says:
    July 23, 2010 at 6:14 am
    Dear Shan

    You are mesmerizingly brilliant, a veritable treasure of knowledge, on issues past and present and your linguistic quiver has arrows to meet all debatory challenges, with verifiable sources, and deliver your responses with absolute precision, be it sarcastic, humorous, incisive or downright abrasive. It is not possible for me to meet you in person, but I wish I could
    Ravi in New York City Reply:

    July 26th, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Shan, wherever you are, you are a smart person. Keep up the good work
    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    July 26th, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Shan,

    You have said it brilliantly. We need commpassion and empathy for fellow beings

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Ravi, you have done a match fixing like your countrymen, the no 10 quote ascribed to me is not mine , this is pakistani hawala transfer
    10. Hindus should ask for “holocaust type reparations” from Muslims.
    Muslims killed 80 million hindus and forcefully converted many under violence/death/jizya.
    muslims should be ashamed of all the things..instead they want to continue this jihad..
    I challenge to direct me to the HT

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan i was not knowing that u are absolute idiot.most of the moghul kings were having hindu cnc s and prime ministers.u are effected by hindu zoinists propaganda.
    main supporters of muslim rule were brhmn and rajput.

    now hate spewing brhmns are selling brhmnsm by rebranding it as hinduism.word hindu came from arab world.it is a nationality not a religion.bhmnsm is a voilent cult not a religion.
    it is system to keep supermacy of brhmns intact at any cost.
    that is why in west bengal except bhadralok ,others are like walking skeletons.while bangladesh is getting prospered.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    as epicentre of international terrorism is pakistan.epicentre of match fixing bussines is india.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Ravi

    “i reproduce ..about Budhist and Jainist temple destructions”….

    You have been on this Budhist and Jainist temple destruction – that what Muslims did (in temple destruction) is comparable to what Hindus (or whoever) did in JAin/Budhist temple destruction…

    The reason people say you are Pakistani/Muslim (I may ahve also said that) is because the triumvariate – evil bahmanism/budhist destruction/jain destruction – is the common element in rabid anti-Indian, anti-Hindu websites published by Pakistanis and some Muslims in india.

    Now, nobody is denying Budhist/Jainist temples may have been destroyed. Last time I checked with a Jain or a Budhist, they did not raise a complaint or expressed any dismay. So, why do Muslims have their dog in that hunt? Suddenly embracing Budhisst and Jainists, wjhile setting fire and exploding Ahmadiya, Sufi, Shia mosques and shrines every day in Pakistan and elsewhere..

    So, Hindus are raising a historical fact and a wound of civilization that most of the Msulim Kings, including the so called patriot Tipu Sultan razed Hindu palces of worship. Tipu is relatively recent, unlike the Budhist and Jainist events. and Muslims’ answer is Hindus destroyed JAina nd Budhist temples 1500 years ago. And Jains and Busdhists are saying we are happy and we do not ahve an issue…. Dalai Lama takes refuge in india and not Pakistan.

    (the present day Coorg is the direct result (a good one) of tipu’s atrocities at converting a nd destroying..how a group of people escaped him and started a new life on the hilltop)

    Am I missing something…

    No need to answer.. Let us all discuss Obama visit. That is the subject of this blog

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Henry Makow, himself a famous Jew, says the entire humanity has been colonised by a satanic cult called the Illuminati which represents the Masonic and Jewish bankers. Tt is these handful of people who staged the famous 9/11. (DV has said this)
    The cult having finished the entire Christian church, it is now after the Muslim blood. All the top American banks, including the Federal Reserve, are owned by them. Both the Federal Reserve (US) and Bank of England (UK) are private banks owned by the Jews.
    MEDIA MONOPOLY
    Himself an ethnic Jew, Makow says the entire mankind is controlled by these satanists with the aid of their media monopoly. The stage is being set to launch a World War-III putting China, Russia, Iran and the entire Muslim world against the US, EU, and Israel. The beauty is both sides are controlled by the Rothschilds.
    (DV will soon publish an article on Rothschilds, who are acknowledged as the king of Jews).
    KISSINGER IS THE KEY
    Most of the Jews being innocents do not know what they are doing, being controlled by the Illuminati. The New World Order (NWO) launched after the Iraq war is an attempt to overthrow god and instal satan. Henry Kissinger, the ex-American Secretary of State, is the CEO of the NWO.
    The Bengali Babu, Amartya Sen, married from the Rothschilds family, is one of the principal links between the Jews and the “Jews of India”. India’s “Khatri Sick” PM, a world Bank nominee, is a loyal servant of the zionist international designs.
    HUMBUG OF HOLOCAUST
    Rothschilds is the head of the Jew money-kings and also the Illuminati which has already subverted the Western civilisation.
    Lenin and Trotsky, both Jews, slaughtered millions of non-Jews to create communist dictatorship which is a zionist creation.
    The greatest mass slaughter in history was not the Jewish “Holocaust” but the mass murder of Christians by Lenin-Stalin. Over 10 million Ukrains were slaughtered.
    The “Jews of India” are blindly obeying the Illluminati order by launching a money-driven society here.
    The author says Barack Obama is a member of this satanic cult. The world’s richest families — Rothschilds, Rockfellers and Windsors — are members of the Illuminati.
    The Jews talk of love, morality, justice, truth but practice the worst values. Blue Star, Babri Masjid, Gujarat Genocide, Kandhamal are the most famous examples of their talk and action.
    That is how in “Hindu India” we find no difference between the words and actions of gandhians, marxists, Hindu terrorists, Dalal Street Dagalbajis. Everything in India is created, promoted and sold for the benefit of the “Jews of India”.
    ISLAM AS SOLE OBSTACLE
    The only obstacle they are facing today is Islam, says Makow.
    The most favourite pastimes of the Jews and the “Jews of India” are sex, nudity, homosexuality, binge drinking, cricket, Bollywood pomp and boasting. Their media is nothing but shit so that our souls are fed with saw dust. Those interested in a more elaborate study of the Illulminati, the zionist Jews and their Indian Brahminical counterparts may order photocopy of Protocols of the World of Zion which is the carbon copy of the Chanakya’s Arthasastra.
    M.K. Gandhi was not a Brahmin but he promoted Brahminism better than the best Brahmin. Hence he was called “Father of the nation”.
    Says the Illuminati are the movers and shakers of the world — comprising 13 major blood lines.
    INDIA IMPRISONED
    Like the Jews, their Brahminist cousins are collectively killing all our senses and programmed us to focus on sex, violence, trivia, property, stock market, entertainment, drinking, eating, cheating — Kamasutra.
    Like the West, India too is converted into a money-driven society of monkeys.
    The vaidiks cunningly divide themselves to fool us. “Sacred Brahmins” defend the Vedas, Manusmriti and all the Brahminical bulshit. But the “Socialist Brahmins” criticise all these things. With the result our innocent people (unthinking lot) get confused and take sides. The ultimate winner is the Bhoodevata.
    BRAHMINICAL MEDIA MONOPOLY
    Every “terrorist attack” in India is the handiwork of the very same Brahminist wicked brain. But because of their media monopoly, the Muslim is criticised and the innocent people made to believe that Muslims are “terrorists”. The “war on terror”, therefore, means war on Muslims.
    INDIA’S FUTURE IS DOOMED
    The Jews (and the “Jews of India”) have forced the humanity to take a wrong turn and our future is doomed.
    Henry Makow categorically asserts that the Sept.11 (2001) WTC “terrorist attack” allegedly master-minded by the Al-Qaida is a zionist-engineered game executed by the Israeli Mossad.
    DV was the first to disclose this secret. Read DV of Oct.16, 2001 p.9: “Did Israel attack Pentgon & WTC?”, p.10: “A zionist plot?”
    A satanic cult is ruling the world. India’s Brahminical rulers are part of this cult. DV has said it.
    The Western society is morally bankrupt. The innocent Jews have subverted it from within. The Illuminati hates the ordinary innocent Jews.
    The satanic cult ruined Russia, brought two World Wars, imprisoned even the Pope, put Hitler in power to persecute and kill Jews in the much publicised “Holocaust” so that the innocent people of the world are silenced when the crooked rulers handed over Palestine to Jews.
    BRAHMINS INFLUENCED HITLER
    Did the “Sacred Brahmins” of India, the cousins of Jews, go to Germany, brainwashed the brilliant German Christians, influenced Hitler to persecute and kill the German Jews at the instance of the zionists? These doubts came on reading Makow’s shocking book.
    David Livingstone (41), author of Terrorism & Illuminati — a 3,000 year history (2007) — says the zionists claiming to be Jews are not ethnic Jews but have Khazar bloodlines. He embraced Islam in 1992. The “Jews of India” are also Khazars.
    The Russian Bolshevik revolution, the 1st and 2nd World Wars and the current financial crisis in the West are the handiwork of these Khazar-origin so-called Jews. They are now preparing for a World War-III against Islam. They are also deeply involved in dividing Muslims.
    ZIONISM IS COMMUNISM
    Zionism and communism are one and the same — both Rothschild proxies.
    Makow, who admits he is a Jew, says the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was first published in Russia (1903) and it is an authentic document — not a forgery as claimed by the zionist Jews. Prof. Sergius A. Nilus published it for the first time in 1901 (for photocopy of the secret book write to DV, Rs. 100).
    AMARTYA SEN’S ZIONIST CONNECTION
    The Protocols of the Zionist Jews and Kautilya’s Arthasastra of the “Jews of India” are one and the same.
    The Protocols aim at overthrow of the Western Christian civilisation. As the book is constantly revised, it is difficult to pin point its author.
    Rothschilds, from whose family Amartya Sen married, is the “king of zionist Jews”.

    [Reply]

    farid Reply:

    @ram autar
    —————–
    Dear sir,
    I have reservations about your comments– regarding AMARTYA SEN.
    I am not going to counter you with a counter thesis.
    I am a BANGLADESHI and SEN was a BANGLADSHI — WE BOTH ARE BENGALI.
    For emotional affinity—I have all the respect for this great man.
    I believe he can not do anything –injurious to humanity.
    We may have different views — for that we should not charge//defame a person.
    Can’t we show some respect to this great-man ?
    Sorry–if it hurts.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Darid

    A resonable request, elegantly made.

    farid Reply:

    @Ravi,

    Dear brother————-FARID————— IS MY NAME.

    ram autar Reply:

    mr farid ,

    rothchild bank and interest banking system is in root of all evils.it is these bankers
    who financed communist revolution in russia killing 5 crores.it is these people who were involved in slave trade.killing 90%of blacks of african sucontinent.same bankers planned ist and 2nd world wars.during war they make profit.
    that is why in judaism and islam intertest is considered the biggest evil.it enslaves the man.
    bankers ,almost without investing anything,enslaves and mortgage any fix or liquid asset.

    till ba nking system is not changed,this world will remain painful.
    rothchild owns half the world assets.
    as a man he looks very good even to me but he is attached with system which is eating the very vitals of our society.

    farid Reply:

    @
    ram autar

    ALTERNATIVE BANKING —WORKING NOW——–LET US WAIT FOR THE SUCCESS OF THAT SYSTEM .BUT THERE IS CONFUSION–WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE–BETWEEN————RIBA—INTEREST–SERVICE CHARGES–
    THIS WORLD IS DYNAMIC AND PEOPLE WILL MARCH FORWARD TO–PEACE,PROGRESS AND JUSTICE.
    LET US HOPE FOR THE BEST.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    hegde,hindus(vedics) are expert liars ,they have rewritten history create blood bath in india.brhmnsm cannot survive without war and voilence.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    including the so called patriot Tipu Sultan razed Hindu palces of worship

    binoy please name one,civil administration consisted mostly of hindus.there was temple in front of his palace..brhmn in you has killed the genius in u.

    this is not ur mistake.carricature of gurga was made by a bengali kayasth in 1861.now she is bhagwan.sai baba was muslim till his death reamined in mosque,used to pray 5 times a day.
    now he is most popular hindu god.

    idiolartory is a money minting technology ,invented in egypt. vedics brought this fraud to india.
    since then fooling and fkng indians through this.

    few muslim invaders looted rich temples.like somnat,with the help of competing brhmns.they told him about the wealth.took their cut.
    mahmood of ghazanvi used that wealth to built ghazni,provided employment to thousands of indians including brhmn archectural brain.ghazni was most advanced and beautiful city of world.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Bye

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    you should participate man, dont run away … fight positions; not people – bring ideas to counter ideas; but if you bring arguments like rss is same as al queda , that is dead on arrival.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    dont insult al qaeda by comparing this with rss(rumour spreading society)al qaeda is fighting and dying with super power.rss is expert inkilling looting of weaker section of society.
    they have made life hell for many in india.they are true scums.they were closest ally of moghuls when they were in power.then see the courage of savarkar its founder,

    What else can you expect of RSS? Deception is their game. Look at their credentials as a nationalist party. Veer Savarkar their icon as a freedom fighter wrote a clemency petition to the British govt:

    “Now no man having the good of India and humanity at heart will blindly step on the thorny paths which in the excited and hopeless situation of India in 1906-1907 beguiled us from the path of peace and progress. Therefore if the government in their manifold beneficence and mercy release me, I for one cannot but be the staunchest advocate of constitutional progress and loyalty to the English Government, which is the foremost condition of that progress… . Moreover my conversion to the constitutional line would bring back all those misled young men in India and abroad who were once looking up to me as their guide. I am ready to serve the government in any capacity they like, for as my conversion is conscientious so I hope my future conduct would be. By keeping me in jail nothing can be got in comparison to what would be otherwise. The Mighty alone can afford to be merciful and therefore where else can the prodigal son return but to the parental doors of the government? Hoping your honour will kindly take into notion these points.” Mark the words “loyalty to the English government.”

    This shows that Savarkar offerred to collaborate with the British. No Congress freedom fighter icon did. They never asked for clemency. Never offered to collaborate with the British

    though i hate alqueda,being indian i am al faeda.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ram Autar,
    Savarkar’s letter is on record and I have always found even strong RSS supporters find it very difficult to defend this.
    Since you are a fan of Periyar, in the interests of honesty, why not mention that he implored the British to stay back and rule India for many more years?
    I quote from this recent article by Cho in India Today.
    “It was a poignant irony that having played a commendable role as a Congressman in the Independence movement, he, in 1938, found himself leading the Justice Party which was somewhat of an asylum for blind supporters of the British. It was the only party in India to have supported the infamous Rowlatt Act; not only that, they had even the depravity to defend the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.”
    The point I want to make is that all men, including great men who have left an impact across generations (including EVR and including Gandhi) were complex individuals- they had many positive qualities and many negative ones.
    Not everything that EVR or Gandhi said needs to be accepted as Gospel truth. Not everything that Gandhi (Rajeev catalogued a lot of fairly dubious actions of Gandhi) or Periyar did had the purest motives- but they were certainly great men who shaped the thoughts of generations.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish, NIRAD CHOUDHURI, till the last day of his life firmly beleived british had ABANDONED india and should have stayed back for a fairly long peroiods .

    ram autar Reply:

    Since you are a fan of Periyar, in the interests of honesty, why not mention that he implored the British to stay back and rule India for many more years?

    he knew for weaker and poors brhmnsm is more biting than imperialism.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Binoy,
    One should be honest about his identity to engage in any debate. This Ravi is either a pakistani or Khalistani. I have seen his words on other sites before..He is India-hating, hindu bashing thug who claims to be liberal hindu.
    I am ready to accept his abuse for India, Hinduism, hindu gods etc. as long as he discloses his identity (Indian/Pakistani or India hating khalistani or some one who just hates hindus) in honest way. You can not pretend to be hindu then use incorrect hindu words (junju) etc. and get away with it.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Talibani Ravi,
    You are back with your paksitani terrorist brothers…

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Bloggers et al, guys are you not struck at the hypocrisy of the indian media and the politicians.Only a month back when there was talk about bringing 80%population under right to food act , GOVT FLATLY SAID IT HASN’T GOT ENOUGH FOOD GRAIN to meet the obligation. Well we can’t give you food we will give you security council seat. Again when Supreme court asked the Govtb to distribute to the poor all those rotting grain , again hands up , cant do it we haven’t got the logistical resources, though according to one imbecile blogger that was because it would put too much budgetary and infationary pressures. Now What I think what India needs is a grand strategy. First and foremoast is food. Agriculture needs to be CO-OPERATISED , not corporatised. Also we definitely definitely need MASS RETAILING , THEY JUST DONT STACK SHELVES THEY PROVIDE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF INPUT TO INCREASE PRODUCTION AND DRIVE DOWN COST.More later.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    The main issue for India is how to transform the rural agricultural worker to a more productive employment. Agriculture today contributes a smaller percentage of GDP, however, employs a much higher percentage of people. That imbalance is the root issue. Rural skills development where they can undertake other things other than agriculture without having to migrate to urban centers — that is the challenge

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr binoy main problem is ,agriculture product is sold at very low price.bania eats their labour.vegetable sold in delhi at 80rs a kilo is purchased from kisan at 2rs per kilo.only 40 kilometers from delhi.middleman is sucking the consumers and producer both.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    for sahn ravi and hegde,

    The Jews(vedics) talk of love, morality, justice, truth but practice the worst values. Blue Star, Babri Masjid, Gujarat Genocide, Kandhamal are the most famous examples of their talk and action.
    That is how in “Hindu India” we find no difference between the words and actions of gandhians, marxists, Hindu terrorists, Dalal Street Dagalbajis. Everything in India is created, promoted and sold for the benefit of the “Jews of India”.
    ISLAM AS SOLE OBSTACLE
    The only obstacle they are facing today is Islam, says Makow.
    The most favourite pastimes of the Jews and the “Jews of India” are sex, nudity, homosexuality, binge drinking, cricket, Bollywood pomp and boasting. Their media is nothing but shit so that our souls are fed with saw dust. Those interested in a more elaborate study of the Illulminati, the zionist Jews and their Indian Brahminical counterparts may order photocopy of Protocols of the World of Zion which is the carbon copy of the Chanakya’s Arthasastra.
    M.K. Gandhi was not a Brahmin but he promoted Brahminism better than the best Brahmin. Hence he was called “Father of the nation”.
    Says the Illuminati are the movers and shakers of the world — comprising 13 major blood lines.
    INDIA IMPRISONED
    Like the Jews, their Brahminist cousins are collectively killing all our senses and programmed us to focus on sex, violence, trivia, property, stock market, entertainment, drinking, eating, cheating — Kamasutra.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Now, nobody is denying Budhist/Jainist temples may have been destroyed. Last time I checked with a Jain or a Budhist

    hegde when budhdhist and jainese temples were destroyed and converted in shiva temple there was no islam.

    the only thing u have offered to world is KAMASUTRA.&LIES.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    “the only thing u have offered ..”

    Who is “u”? Hindus or Indians? Then, from where did you get your name? Should I pressume you are a Budhist from Burma?

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    His only answer is to label me as a Muslim from Pakistan.

    if these nazi thieve call u ****.ur awnser should yes.dont say no.we are far better than them.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Ram- I request you to stop uttering unrelated items.. this is about Obama and his visit. Either talk about it or please have the decency not to talk about unrelated items.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    i was silent but i have to awnser when u drag us in arguments.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    All punishment for sudra & respect for Brahmin
    If the sudra attacks a Brahmin with hands or with a stick the part affected should be noted and the sudra should be beaten severely at the same part of his body. His hand should be cut off, if he had used his hands. His legs should be cut off, if he had used his leg. (Chap.9.S.224,248).

    If the sudra takes away anything belonging to the Brahmin he should be tortured and killed. (Chap.9.S.248).

    If a sudra leaves his trade and seeks the trade of others, the king should confiscate his property and excommunicate him. (Chap.10.S.96).

    If a non-Brahmin enjoys with a Brahmin wife, he should be punished till he breathes his last. (Chap.8.S.359).

    If a sudra enjoys a Brahmin girl without protection, his male organ must be cut off. If he enjoys a Brahmin girl in a family, his body must be cut to pieces and his property should be confiscated. (Chap.8.S.374).

    For eliciting truth and for taking a promise, the sudra should be made to hold a hot iron or be immersed under water. (Chap.8.S.114).

    If the sudra’s hands are not scorched, and if he does not de in the water then only the words of the sudra could be taken as true. (Chap.8.S.115).

    A country where the sudras have no other work than being slaves, is the only right place where the Brahmin can live. (Chap.2.S.24).

    A Brahmin should not live in a place where the sudra is ruling. A Brahmin should not live in a place near the abode of the Chandalas (Chap.4.S.61).

    No right to the sudras:

    A sudra should not be taught the sastras. Brahmin should not given food to anyone other than his disciples or followers. Offerings of the homa should not be given to any sudra. Brahmins should not go for performing rites or pooja to any one who boycotted the Brahmins. (Chap4.S.80).

    The dead body of the sudra should be taken by the south direction. The dead body of the Kshatriya should go by north. The dead body of the Vaisya should go by the west. The dead body of the Brahmin should alone go by the east. (Chap.5.D.92).

    Brahmin rule:

    A king should receive preaches of the vedas and the sastras and all Brahmins. Every morning he must meet their demands and rule the country as dictated by the Brahmins. (Chap.7.S.37).

    A country ruled by a king will be ruined, if the vedic scholars and the Brahmins are made to suffer for food. (Chap7.S.134).

    If a king does not rule the country as is stated in the Manu’s code, (varnasrama dharma) the ministers and others should kill the king. (Chap.7.S.26).

    A sudra should be suppressed by the Brahmin without minding the powers of the king. If the varnadharma is dishonoured by a king, the Brahmins should take up the weapons and fight. (Chap.8.S.348).

    A country where a sudra administers justice, will undergo sufferings as a cow caught in the marshy pond. (Chap.8.S.21).

    Share in the treasure:

    If a king finds a treasure in his country he should first give half of the treasure to the Brahmins and take the other half only to his treasury. (Chap 8.S.38).

    Hanging:

    Punishment by hanging is not applicable to the Brahmins.

    Instead of hanging, it is enough if his head is shaved. Others could be hanged. .. (Chap 8.S.379).

    A Brahmin and a snake should not be heckled, even if weak in health. (Chap.4.S.135,136).

    Even if the Brahmin commits a very serious offence, he should not be tortured or hung. He should be sent away with his belongings. (Chap.8.S.380).

    Women:……..mr shan for u only.

    Bed, seat, beauty, pregnancy, anger, lie, betrayal etc. were created only for the sake of women. (Chap.9.S.17).

    [Collected Works of Periyar , (pp.129 to 131) (4th edn. 2007), The Periyar Self-Respect Propaganda Institution, Periyar Thidal, 50-EVK Sampath Rd., Vepery, Madras - 600 007].

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Replace ‘Brahmin’ with ‘MUSLIM’ and Shudra with ‘Kafir’…It sounds exactly like Quran..Are you sure you are not quoting from Quran?

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy,well this ravi and haram autar may be the same person , or perhaps ISI at work . What you dont realise is that asking for decency from these people is like asking Bin Laden to practice gandhian non violence.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    Do you seriously believe that Gandhi was some kind of prophet? It is time India unshackled itself from Gandhi. We can use PART-GANDHIAN values but India can not be run on Gandhi’s ideas. He was greatest politician of his day..and that is it..he is part of history to be studied but not to be turned into a Prophet whose actions can not be questioned. I seriously don’t want India to have its own MOHAMMAD…

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rajeev

    Mahathma Gandhi is as relevant today as he was 70 years ago. He is the afther of nation, uniting a country, giving it a sense of a “nation”, showing real innovative ways of dealing with colossal problems… Some of his ideas may have to be revisited nd adapted and improvised.

    We can never question some of his decisions because we were not there at that time, in that environment. We can contemplate various what ifs.

    You are a bit disingenuos when you say people want to make him “the prohet, or Muhamed of India” (now you watch out–crazies will kill you for making thats tatement, like they killed the movie guy in Denmark and tried to kill the cartoonist). He commands and deserves all the respecta nd adoration; his statements and books should be studied and studied, and interpreted and reinterpreted. Some of the notions may not be applicanble for a 21st century world.. Or may be..Is it bad if India resonates in its villages. ISnt the poverty issue now mostly a rural issue? How far India will be if its villagers are taken care of…all these are questions we should debate.. We may then realize we can take the country forward with a 100% adherenc to Gandhian values, or we can adhere only to 80%… that is aprocess we have to go through.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Raju,
    Sorry, I don’t agree with your take on Gandhi. There is nothing in the Indian constituition that accords him status of “father of nation”. Are you sure he united the country then why did we see partition.

    Was he a Mahatma or wily politicians? Pl. explain me his divine design on forcing SC Bose to quit congress and his role in Bhagat Singh’s execution. Why did he replace Maulana Azad as president of Congress just before independence? Why did he choose Nehru over Patel when 13 out of 16 Pradesh Congress Committees elected Patel to be PM of India? Why did he accept Agha Khan palace as his jail? Why didn’t he go to ordinary jail?
    Sorry, I don’t think he was just a Mahatma, he was a cold calcualting politician. Remember Jinnah was product of Gandhi’s wrong mixture of religion with politics.

    I do agree with Gandhi’s view on self-reliance of villages.

    I guess we can agree to disagree on this and move on because my views on Gandhi are firm. I don’t see anybody as absolute black or absolute white..this whole world is grey

    Rajeev Reply:

    By the way the criticism of Gandhi is met with violence (from Congress goondas) in India..It is a fact.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rajeev

    Individuals of course can have their opinions.

    We – you, I , others – do not know the precise situations and interplays when Mahathmajoi, or for that matter, any leader made/make decisions. Why did Bush decide to invade Iraq? He has been bullied and blamed for many things. But is it possible that he was doing it in the best interest of his country as he saw it?

    Kurosovo’s movie Roshman depicts an incident wittnessed by nine people. All the nine people have different versiosns,, all truth. We just cannot decipher, after 60 years, why not Patrel, why not Aga Khan etc etc..

    It is criminal to thinka nd attribute that Mahathmaji had any interest other than india’s interest in mind. We may or may not agree. But for eitehr of that, we are not qualified because we were not there–We can form opinions. But that is just that — opinions.

    MAhathma was a great politician — He was also everything what our ancestors and books said about a real raja/leader. One who lived for its people.

    When you start questioning “Who made him the Father of nation ..etc” you be prepared for counter questions on Kashmir, Muslims, etc..because everything can be questioned and the pillars brought down.

    We all know he did not ask anybody to call him father of nation.

    In his mind, he must ahve had sufficient reasons as to why Patel would not make the right leader for the new India. Drona had a special liking to one of his pupils – Arjuna. It is only natural that aGuru likes one student better than many others for certain inherent qualities.

    We should be happy and thankful to the almighty that Gandhiji was our leader.

    If some congress people attack, it should eb considered as a part of democtacy like some RSS attacking Muslims, some Msulims attacking hindus, etc etc.. Justa bunch of extremists. I am not aware that congress party has issued any circular asking its cadre to attack anti-Gandhi people.

    Whatever w ethink of partition, doont you think the present India is far better off without PAkistan than with Pakistan?

    .

    Rajeev Reply:

    Raju Kurien,
    In short you mean to say that Gandhi could do no wrong..This is unacceptable in democracy. You are making Mao out of Gandhi.

    You should know how congress used violence to stop “Mee Nathuram Godse Boltoy” play in maharashtra.

    The Gandhi (original) has been made prophet in India because his prophethood helps fake-Gandhis in this country.

    Gandhi was basically a failure who can be held responsible for partition of India. If Jinnah became communal from nationalist, Gandhi was directly responsible for it. Today if we don’t know the fate of SC Bose today, Gandhi is to blame. Today if thousands of Indians are getting killed because of Kashmir issue, Gandhi is directly responsible. Gandhi is also responsible for the terror coming from pakistan.

    You said he did not ask to be called as “father of nation” but my question is why did he not object when he was called “father of the nation” or “Mahatma”.

    The hindus have millions of god and the reason behind that is our blind faith in all kinds of idols.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Raju, Rajeev

    Sorry for jumping in this thread. But I think Gandhi needs to be looked more as a human than god. To me his greatest accomplishment was “not deviating from the path of non violence” that he believed in. He has shown an enormous guts in calling off non co-operative movement single handed, when it took the violent route.

    I also feel, he has made some errors with his decisions. One, by choosing a novice Nehru(as good as Omar Abdullah) as a Congress President just because, his father wished for it. This marks the beginning of politics becoming family business in India. (I don’t mean to say, India would have never witnessed family politics if he had not taken this move. All feudalistic Asian countries do have this trend and Gandhi is not an inspiration for all of them. But at least, he should not have allowed it in his regime, when he did not let his own children).

    Second, choosing hard core Ali brothers over moderate Jinnah as a Muslim leader; Today if a Pakistani blows bomb in UK because Iraq is occupied, we condemn the act as illogical. What was Khilafat movement then? Why Gandhi decided to ally with a fundamentalist Islamic movement (which even muslims like Jinnah opposed)? Also his silence over Moplah riots. Again, pan Islamic movement would have triggered even otherwise (Gandhi is not responsible for its presence in Afghanistan, today). But he has quietly watched its arrival in India.

    I would still consider him a Mahatma. He was not hypocrite. He stood by his values. He showed us a noble way of fighting. But he was a human. His mistake was, he idealized this world a bit too much.

    The interesting thing I find is: Gujaratis, who lost their race (Patel) to Nehru, keep trying to find one more national leader from their state. They have tried to project Advani, now Modi.. but every time it is the win for Nehru family. One more common thing I find with these Gujarati leaders is, none of them have ever projected their family unlike Nehru’s. Yet, Gujarat has to be contempt at being one of the prosperous state, not a leading state. May be Gandhi never wished either his family or his state to rule others.

    @Raju

    “Whatever we think of partition, don’t you think the present India is far better off without Pakistan than with Pakistan?”
    This is where all the bloggers would have an agreement. :-)

    Vinay Reply:

    Just a thought.

    25 years ago, Army commandos deciding to kill Sikh militants, stormed Golden Temple on a Sikh annual festival, finally ended up damaging the holy shrine and killing thousands of innocents as a bi product. Indira Gandhi’s assassination by two of her Sikh bodyguards was viewed as an act of vengeance. After these 25 years and lot of blood shed, everyone have moved forward. Congress has a Sikh Prime minister.

    20 years ago, Rajiv Gandhi refused to withdraw the IPKF operation which was opposed by Premadasa then PM of Srilanka, believing it will end the civil war. The operation killed over 1100 Indian soldiers, 25000 Tamils. An agitated Tamilian who belonged to LTTE, assassinated Rajiv Gandhi. Jain Commission accused DMK(/Karunanidhi) of a role. Years have rolled on. DMK has been part of Congress govt, while strong LTTE sympathizers Vaiko having supported Congress at some part of time.

    60 years ago, we faced partition. Lot of bloodshed in both sides. One extremist felt Gandhi leans to one side more than the other. In the anger, killed him.

    I condemn, each death. But what puzzles me is, people remembering and condemning todays RSS over Gandhi’s murder even after these many decades. Is it because, the third situation is different than the first two? Is it because Gandhi was bigger soul than the first two? Or is it because, Congress feels threatened by BJP, so keeps taking out its trump card and keeps sharpening its weapon?

    @Rajiv

    “criticism of Gandhi is met with violence (from Congress goondas) in India”.

    Do you mean BJP doesn’t have goondaism culture? I feel, BJP has more odds than Congress. Externally, it has to fight with its communal image. Internally, it has to fight the termites in the form of hindu extremism and corruption. How much ever it glosses over, it can’t refuse the Hindu Talibanic elements hiding under its wings. Also large scale corruption in this decade. (25 years ago, we didn’t have TV then. Yediyurappa used to canvas for BJP in radio and say, “Our party is like the lotus standing in the gutter of corruption”. Today, his party is one big gutter). Congress is at a safer position. Its image is always “secular”. Regarding corruption, nobody has any expectation from this party after Indira. Congress has nothing to loose.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    vinay

    Well, Mahathmaji’s death is a fodder for Congress to go after BJP. BJP is a totally “lost” party; wasting each and every opportunity they get. They do not have a future unless they fill their benches with young dynamic leaders. Mahajan, with all his flaws, was a charismatic and vigorous person. But the stories of corruption that came out after his death, and the sordid family saga, did create damage. BJP has a great future if they can have young leaders,a nd if they can project as a clean alternate to congress — that they are not able to do this is a shame on them.

    BJP with Reddy brothers is no different from Congress in terms of misuse and corruption; the only issue is Congress doe sit better and has agood communication mechanism and relatively clean front people liek Antony and Rahul and Mukerjee.

    BJP, if they plan and play right, can be a pan-India party (may be except in the leftistt states of West Bengal and Kerala). With the economy improving, people will naturally become India centric, more focused on development, development of their own ina personal and family self, but also a “moral” as well as material development of teh country — BJP, if it cannot “exploit” and leverahge this opportunity, deserves to be a third-rung party.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Raju,

    I wonder why I put Sindhi Advani under Gujarat! Too much of Somnath visits and his comparisons to Patel must have blinded me. Would agree with you, Mahajan was a charismatic leader. Now, there is no crowd puller for BJP. (Mahajan himself had lost elections. But was leagues better than Sushma Swaraj). Now with Reddys and Ramsene, BJP can only go down further.

    The young leaders in most parties are children of veterans. BJP leaders have not groomed their children. They were clean. That was their strength. At the same time, that is what is todays BJP’s weakness (lack of young leaders). If they can groom some young outsiders into politics, that could be a fantastic contribution. But they don’t have time for all these. They are just grabbing money, being sure they won’t get a second chance.

    The tactics used by Nehru family can deceive anybody. Outside they don’t have any power. Inside, nothing moves without their knowledge. As they don’t hold any post, they can’t be held accountable for anything. But they will always be share holders in success. CWG mess.. they sack Kalmadi and share limelight with Sheila Dixit. Adarsh scam.. they will sack the chief minister, couple of months later will give him cabinet minister post in central government. What is their role in all these? They must have learnt a lesson after Bofors, how to enjoy power without dealing with any responsibility.

    In mid 80s we believed BJP can play a clean, honest politics instead of corrupt, appeasing Congress politics. That illusion has faded. What is the next alternative? Will the BJP clean itself or will we witness one more party instead of BJP? Right now, I am not finding any alternative.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vinay,
    I agree with you except for Mahatma part. Gandhi was a POLITICAL Mahatma..that’s it. I admire his-
    1. Honesty – He did not promote any of his sons in congress unlike Nehru-gandhis. When he died he has approx. Rs.250 in his account. He was shining example of honesty..No doubt about it.
    2. Truly secular – He did not hide his hinduness to practice his secularism unlike current day Indians. He lost support of muslims because they started perceiving him as hindu leader.
    3. Non-Violence – He chose non-violence as method of protest. I contest the fact that his non-violent struggle got us freedom but it surely avoided bloodshed on a large scale.
    4. Harijan – He was genuinely interested in getting harijans their true share in India and the way he compromised with Ambedkar is truly admirable.

    However looking at his political action, I can say he was too self-centered (fasts to blackmail nation especially hindus), partisan (Pro-Nehru), Cunning (Ouster of SC Bose, denying Patel PM, dumping Maulana Azad), Appeaser (Khilafat, advised hindus to die in pakistan rather than migrate).
    He was a non-violent political dicatator in his public life..I do admire his private conduct as descibed above.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vinay,
    Did I say that BJP does not have Goonda element? But I find your logic very congresslike. If BJP uses violence, does it give right to congress to use same tactics. If BJP indulged in corruption, Can congress justify its own corruption?

    Please do give me the example of BJP violence, when BJP stalwarts were slandered by congress (such as calling VAjpayee Deshdrohi, Modi ‘Hitler’, RSS as terrorist org. etc). The congress party can not take any criticism for fake-gandhis and resorts to harrasment thru CBI etc when in power and uses mass violence when in opposition.

    You say, people have moved on but ask these question to the victims of partition, 1984 congress sposored genocide, 2002 BJP/Modi sponsored genocide.. Have you ever wondered why muslims refuse to move on with respect to Babri? You can not do justice to people by moving on.

    What this country needs is non-partisan investigative agencies ably supported by non-partisan judiciary…We should not move on saying “Chalta hai..”…Every issue needs resolution…

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Vinay

    I believe BJP can. They ahve to project as a deep Indian party , hostage to none, but only to indian people for their prosperity..project a clean image and practise that..making sure they are slowly meeting peoiple’s aspirations ..sometimes little things can bring in big dividends, and there are so many little things they could do (so also congress).

    India is a center right country. The internet, Tv , travels etc has expanded the view points of the Indian middle class. BJP can get the majority indshare of the middleclass and build on that. The middle class wants all to rise in their prosperity and well being; and are looking for a national party who will create more middle class. Most of the enw middle class are people from poor or average backgrounds, not offsprings of rich. Tehy understand the issues, will support a party genuinely interested in upliftment. They have to do a good recruitment program, a good communications program (the constant criticism from Congress and soem of the Msulims about Hindwata)..They can do it; but new leaders have to come, not Advani or Vasundhare. If they do it right, they can even take over the regional parties like DMK. Who else but BJP to ensure that people can keep their heritage – religion, or language, or whatever they consider sacred — that you are all proud pieces of the old country …

    Rajeev Reply:

    BJP could not handle power..They became corrupt and arrogant just like congress and on top of that did away with any discipline….there is a hindi saying “Kutte ko Ghee Hazam nahi hota”.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Rajiv

    Re Gandhi: “I contest the fact that his non-violent struggle got us freedom”
    I agree. I don’t know, whether we would have got freedom in his lifetime, if British had not gone bankrupt in world war II. But there was no guarantee, if we had fought it violently, we would have got it, as well. (Both Palestine and Tibet are occupied. Both haven’t got back their land, despite taking different routes. But Tibetans have not suffered life losses like Palestine).

    “People have moved on”.
    I meant, people don’t call DMK as terrorists because of Rajiv’s assassination, they don’t point at Sikhs anymore for Indira’s death. But they don’t forget to brand RSS as terrorist organization for Godse killing Gandhi (at a burning phase of history), even after 60 years.

    “I find your logic very congress like”
    Wonder how you felt me as a Congressi. I said, Congress image won’t go down by corruption, as it is already in rock bottom for decades. I just expressed disappointment that BJP taking the same route. (Disappointment comes when there is some expectation. With Congress, nobody has any expectation). Congress with all its corruption has this “discipline” (we may call it slavery) of bowing to “high command”, which gives better impression in front of media. But BJP has anarchy of regional parties, corruption equivalent to Congress. I don’t like leaders of both the parties. Sushma is one nautanki. (She calls Reddy brothers as her sons, Yediyappa as her brother.. why can’t she be just professional?Her threat of shaving her head if Sonia become PM was heights). As far as Sonia, I don’t care whether an Italian or a Mexican becomes our PM, if they can really understand and care about our problems and have efficiency to deal with it. (Anie Besent had a better vision than Gandhi during Mopla riots). But Sonia is just one more Rabri Devi, who is fair and can speak little bit of English. I don’t expect her to lead a national party, just like I don’t dream of Rabri Devi to be our PM.

    I always wonder, how to get back pre-90s (pre Rathyatra) BJP. It was not corrupt (of course, it did not have power as well). It opposed appeasement but did not get into polarizing. (Well, Ayodhya might indicate Muslim’s stubbornness. But places like Bababudangiri Shrine in Karnataka always exhibited Hindu-Muslim harmony. BJP (joined by Bhajragdal) brought Shobhayatra purely for political reasons). Today, extremist organizations like Bhajrang Dal (which have sprouted after Rathyatra) have hijacked BJP policies from moderate RSS. BJP needs a clear shake up(/clean up) from its top leaders to extremist base wings like Bhajrang Dal. Is my expectation too much?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Your expectation from BJP is justified. It is time BJP redefined itself, it should not become like congress or muslim league.
    I agree with your Sonia = white rabri comparison.

    Ashish Reply:

    I am totally with Vinay on his comparing BJP and Congress; particularly love his -”one is disappointed when one has some expectations; with Congress there never was”

    Rajeev Reply:

    Binoy,
    You can guess the honesty of a person just by looking at the handle (RAM AUTAR) a guy is using and then match it with his posts. This guy is some Talibani who is shamelessly using hindu name and thinks we are bunch of kids to believe his non-stop nonsense.
    I know few pakistanis personally and believe me pakistanis coming from Punjab are mostly like Ram Autar, Azhar and Ravi.
    Ignore this troll.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    u people have no awnser.so pakistani isi jinnah etc etc etc.mullah arabi 72 virgins.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We won’t give you any answer till you use your correct identity (pakistani muslims) to put your points across..We don’t accept propaganda from Islamic sites.
    Come clean or buzz off…

  • vinayak purohit

    Says the three “eminent” Congress leaders — Lal, Bal, Pal — engineered partition of India. Hindu terrorist Savarkar’s call to “Hinduise politics and militarise Hinduism” inflicted so much violence on Muslims.

    Calcutta University was a Hindu fortress. Most Hindus in every village were richer than the richest Muslim. Not a single Muslim had cultivable land in my village. In the 80s, Hindu communalism transformed into Hindu fascism.

    It was the Muslim invaders who gave us the name “Hindu”. Savarkar formulated the “two-nation theory” much before Jinnah. The worst anti-Muslim culprit was Bankim Chandra Chatterji, a Bengali Brahmin, the author of Vande Mataram. Muslims never observed untouchability. That is how Dalits opted for Islam in a big way and got liberated.

    Muslim rulers Indianised themselves. Dalits fought Brahmins and when defeated embraced Budhism and fought them again after becoming Muslims. Bengali Muslims are mostly Dalit converts. Even Swami Vivekananda said “Islam was a great blessing and liberated the oppressed”. Upper castes partitioned Bengal. Gandhi was a cunning fox” and “a Hindu revivalist”.

    “Babri Masjid” was a Hindu conspiracy.

    Muslims are too poor to be polygamous but Bengali Brahmins were polygamous.

    Though an upper caste Hindu (Kayasth), Deb is very critical of Gandhi, Nehru, and all the Bengali upper castes. On the Babri Masjid, he says it was a Brahmin-instigated conspiracy as old as 1885. He quotes L.K. Advani, the villain who demolished the Masjid: “The Congress wanted the demolition and they had it done by us”.

    [Reply]

    ********* Reply:

    Even I learnt something new reading this.

    Thank you

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    :)

    [Reply]

  • http://www.faithfreedom.org Jindal

    Mr Obama and Mr Cameron should convince Pakistan to give up on its headless Kashmir ambition. A China containment policy will not work until entire Kashmir is rightfully made a part of India (on the basis of the instrument of accession signed by the king of Kashmir) and thus eliminating Pakistan’s desire to have a border with China. Doing anything less would leave the door wide open for the Chinese to take a shortcut to access the warm waters of the Arabian sea. The Himalayas have stood the test of time. But if we simply sit idle until the Himalayan barrier is breached, that would be the time to write off the future of the world. An aberration of a two-century Anglosphere will be replaced by a sinocentric world order for a very long time. The choice is ultimately ours to make.

    Obama is also right in recommending revisionism in India’s foreign policy. The do-nothing non-aligned movement coupled with a backward foreign policy doctrine of “non-interference” in affairs of other countries is not the mark of a global power which India aspires to be. India should amend the constitution and openly criticize violation of human rights and democratic values countries like Myanmar and around the globe. After all, great power comes with great responsibilities. Don’t expect a free ticket to a UNSC permanent seat if India continues to shy away from intervening into regional and global matters. Whether or not India can deliver game changing “results” or whether it chooses to remain a lax status quo power will be watched closely the world over.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Jindal., you have a long wish list. It is haemorrhaging India just to keep the valley within the union , and you are talking about the entire kashmir in Indian fold. It is childish to expect that can ever be done unless pakistan implodes due its economic collapse. That may pave they way or incentivise kashmiris to remain stuck to India. For that to happen Indian science and technology needs a quantum leap so that indian companies are producing world class products like BMW or I phone or Apple Ipod, which effectively killed off japanese music systems by introducing digital music in contrast to japanese analog system. Or unless massive oil is struck , so that India can afford generous social security structure. I think India should aim for status quo , and try to focus like a laser beam in improving agriculture by injecting massive amount of modern technology, basically start industrial farming. Should totally open up the economy , I have no remorse in seeing videocon folding if it cannot compete.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Apple Ipod, which effectively killed off japanese music systems by introducing digital music in contrast to japanese analog system
    As always, Shan makes his most emphatic statements on subjects he knows the least about; like electronics.
    basically start industrial farming
    Given the size of average land-holdings in India, industrial farming? But, again, Shan does not let reason or reality intrude into his dreams.
    Should totally open up the economy , I have no remorse in seeing videocon folding if it cannot compete.
    Not sure why Videocon in particular, but any company will die in India today if it cannot compete. The GOI will not step in with a package.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish’As they say ignorance is bliss. Perhaps somebody who was very poor at maths in school should take it from some one who was awarded National merit scholarship by The Govt Of India (yes india not west bengal). Let me educate you .The sony walkman and all its clones were magnetic tape which winds on a spool and depending on the magnetisation /demanetisation the signal is converted to an audio output. In digitalmusic the sound is recorded as File like Mp3. In digital music ,sounded is codified the very alphabets if you want to start are electric signalon anf off that is 0 and 1 . Perhaps should have studied a little haarder during your school days and not watch films , so that you could have scored good marks in mathss and qualifiy to understand matterss relating to science. For your information SONY recently closed down allproduction of its INVENTION the WALKMAN.

    shan Reply:

    @ashish the CRAB in you reveals in full glory.Because the holdings are small , is the very reason i have suggested COOPERATISATION . Perhaps I need to explain this ,marketing people are so tunnel vision.If all the small contagious holding come together and form a really large holding say about 60 acre ,then the mechanisation of farming can take place. And if logic can get through your impervious brain ,then you will appreciate this is where mass retailing kicks in .As I have said they dont just buy things , They actively ENGAGE with producers providing them with ideas /technology to increase production and drive down cost. Also cooperatisation will enable RENTING (yes in UK there are company whichrent them , because repairing them cannot be done in localgarage, I had a patient who used to repair heavy farm equipment.) Just ask questions keeping in mind you are in delhi and i am in UK , I will try to answer all your queries eather than making stupid comments and SCORING POINTS.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan/Ashish

    India is making fantastic products – Mahindra (without any name change for US market) is introducing its small tractors in US through hundreds of dealers. There is no equivalent in that size – nobody, including Cterpillar makes for that market. Its utility was proved during Katrina; many farmers and homeowners on mississippi coast bought it.

    Kalyani Forge in Pune is constantly referenced about how India competes on low manufacturing cost in China — through unbelievable sophistication in automation and technology.

    Wipro and Infosys are behind any emvbedded software products and gadgets.

    The issue with agriculture is that it suffers from all sorts of governmental intervention done to “protect” but does the opposite. Dr Swaminathan has proved many many years ago that we can achieve self sufficiency in food through scientific means; Dr Kurien created the milk revolution through science as well as the cooperative marketng (Amul) Shan talks about. But the progressive govt of Gujrat stood behind Dr Kurien and his innovations instead of throwing millions of regulations on him.

    Ashish Reply:

    @binoy hegde,
    Yes; I am sufficiently aware of the product innovation ecosystem in India – innovation in engineering is truly world class – still in pockets but those pockets are becoming large. Right now in a conference in Bangalore where several such innovations were sited.
    Our Nuclear and Aerospace technologies – and anything concerning defence electronics is poor; of the 50 odd CSIR labs, only about 4-5 produce consistently good standard work.
    IISC is a mixed bag; I have never visited it- so, I can’t comment for sure.
    Needless to say, those pockets of excellence are mostly all in the private sector- some in companies whose names are hardly known. Of course Kalyani Forge is a huge, and well known success story.
    Many automobile parts are today designed in India. Aircraft doors, top of the line white-goods and as you pointed out, much work in embedded systems (sadly, we do not own IPs in most of those cases) are done by our ITES majors.

    @Shan,
    Poor in maths: actually how poor was revealed in college, where everyone else in my batch was better than me in maths. That said, I will make only 2 points:
    1. I have forgotten more on the subject of electronics than you have ever learnt. So, if you insist further on educating me, do so- but, you run the risk of providing unparalleled merriment.
    2. I was upset at my daughter getting 97% in maths; enough hint?

    Your being in UK or Timbuktoo is irrelevant.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Shan is right — innovation in today’s connected world can happen anywhere. Lot of development as well as commercial applications of mobile telephony are happening now in India due to the confluence of many afctors 1) lot of users 2) Lot of entrepreneurial youngsters both from India, and Indians returning from US getting together and coming with ideas 3) Ecossytem of evnture capital and angel funders and PE funds 4) hub of activities..

    The Indian issue at the end of the day is how do we bring the marginalized people in the fold, and create even millions of doers.. The spirit is there..In less than 20 years, even with lots of controls and bureaucracy, we have shown what we can do. Just imagine if our bureaucracy was limited and if our political system was more stable (i mean these so many local parties allw anting a pound of flesh).

    I read that 80% of brand anme motels (like holiday inn, days inn etc) in US are owned by Gujaratis. That 40% new startups in Silicon valley are started by Indians. So, the sirit is in the blood. We should not worry about being left behind. The startegy should be how to increase the growth from 9% to 15%.. I believe it is possible without much additional effort – just lclsoing the leaks will bring another 1.5%, better infrastructure will bring another 2%, and innovation another 2%. We have to ignore the leftists (bothf rom the left and the congress) , have people like Monekwalah and Reddy (and even chidambaram) continue in the economic sphere, deal with the adivasi/naxalite issues (give land and facilities to Adivasis, but kill Rao and his co leaders), have fast courts to deal with extremism and corruption cases …

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy, vinay and raju kurien. As you all know the parable of the sower. Some seeds fell on the good gounds and became good plants , some fell on the rocky soil and remained stunted. and that is what the precise problem with India. The seed may be top class but the ground , meaning the work culture and the people like Ashish , who is a clown in a salesman’s garb,has an intellect of a RSS pracharak ,la togadia , but is such a posseur as if he has seen the world, when he has merely visited xeinhua or whereever. This is the very reason the toppers of the IIt will leave India at the drop of a hat. Its not the salary , its the culture. As I have pointed out before you wouldn’t expect a topper from IIt to work for CK Birla in Hindustan Motors, or for a sugar mill owner Dhoot and his consumer electronic company. These places breeds below average (by western standard) and is ideal placefor guys like ashish to thrive,and these very people will because of their inferiority complex will use every bit of office politics and sucking up to demoralise the really bright and worthy. Are you aware Dr HG Khorana(For ignorant ashish ,this is a fomer nobel laureatte , who synthesided the codons (now i have to explain what codons is) was accused of stealing (presumabably of ashish’s ilk)when he was a lecturer in Punjab.As every body knows so long the culture doesn’t chage India will remain mediocre but will produce very many sharp minds who will make all their contribution in US or UK like the lasy years Nobellaureatte Prof Ramachandran for synthesising Ribosomes (which again the salesman will not be able to comprehend what ribosome is and what role it has in drug action.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    When Bhagwan was pouring your brains in with a teaspoon, somebody jiggled his arm!

    shan Reply:

    This is what i had written
    .The sony walkman and all its clones were magnetic tape which winds on a spool and depending on the magnetisation /demanetisation the signal is converted to an audio output. In digitalmusic the sound is recorded as File like Mp3. In digital music ,sounded is codified the very alphabets if you want to start are electric signal on and off that is 0 and 1 .And this is someone’s response to the above
    “I have forgotten more on the subject of electronics than you have ever learnt. So, if you insist further on educating me, do so- but, you run the risk of providing unparalleled merriment.”

    THIS IS A CLASSICAL SYMPTOM OF somebody becoming DEEP GREEN like an algae bloom. Now I have to give a tutorial on what an algae bloom is. This phenomenon is most prevalent in Delhi and other dirty ponds. Because the Oxygen is very low , in these ponds because care is not taken and phyto plankton dont grow , and also the ambient temp being so high . So there is a overgrowth of Algae on the surface which can survive on anaerobic respiration as all as blocks all the sunlight (in Ashish’s case knowledge) make the water yet more low oxygen but the phytoplanktons cannot survive without the sunlight to produce photosynthesis.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr deep Bhagwa coulred SHAN.

    As is almost always the case with you.

    1. You come across as a patronising and condescending twit. That is because you believe that you know everything and every one else knows nothing. Coming from a man who suffers from Cerebral hypoxia, it is a bit difficult to take. The difference between analogue and digital sound recording and reproducing systems and the products designed, developed and manufactured by Sweden are two recent examples. This knowledge is common place and widely understood and need not have been re-stated. Who do you think does not know what algae are and how it comes about? Even by your degenerate standards this was a tangent too far. So I suggest stop delivering unwanted lessons on Electronics, Economics, International Diplomacy, Botany, etc etc. Your own knowledge can be collected and published as a Lady Bird Book Of …..which you can then buy from your local W. H. Smith’s. Grow up.

    2. You deviate on a tangent from the main point of the argument. This is because you take every opportunity that is available, however inappropriate, to display your newly acquired shallow knowledge, which you picked up from popular magazines (as opposed to learned periodicals) like Jane’s Aircraft.

    3. You regularly put down India’s progress, giving the impression that the world at large has swallowed GOI’s PR messages and in reality there is no progress in India. This you do because you are cantankerous in nature. If some one said Mona Lisa was beautiful, your natural reaction would be to discover obscure ways by which you counter this opinion and hope that would make you look knowledgeable intelligent. It has the opposite effect; it makes you look as a pompous ***.

    I’ve known sponges with more intelligence than you.

    4. In case you have forgotten, do continue to attack people, we promise we will pay back with interest. You were given the choice to move away from personal attacks, you pointedly declined the offer. I no longer care if you call me GREEN and or a PAKISTANI TALIBAN, etc. Every one knows that you are a HINDU FUNDO and not a Rationalist and Humanist as you so loudly proclaim. You have been challenged on this and have been found wanting.

    shan Reply:

    Ashish Reply:

    November 10th, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    @binoy hegde,
    Yes; I am sufficiently aware of the product innovation ecosystem in India – innovation in engineering is truly world class
    Examples please .. we are aware there is no tax to be paid for making sweeping statements or spewing bollocks. Every body knows and I have corrected the above plonker, in previous posting that American Micro Devices has three design centres in India in contrast to his beloved China. Now the Yanks ain’t
    going to pour in money for nothing. Would be interested to know what innovation if any has come from BPL or Videocon , just to break the slumber, Tata indica car’s engine is from Puegeot, The Nano’s engine is supplied by Bosch.
    Another gem , from a clown
    Our Nuclear and Aerospace technologies – and anything concerning defence electronics is poor; of the 50 odd CSIR labs, only about 4-5 produce consistently good standard work.
    IISC is a mixed bag; I have never visited it- so, I can’t comment for sure
    So I visited Max Planc Institute , oh the building was really nice , and you know I saw a Electron Microscope , and lots of machine thingy, and really blonde white blokes and some pretty birds. This is what a visit to an institution gives you. To know about the institution minimum you can go and visit the website and read what they claim as their contribution , the best way to know is from a peer
    review . Now as much the above clown has a habit of making wild unbacked claims, let us put some facts so that bloggers are not misguided.
    Despite the shortcoming of not being able to build the engine to power it LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT is a feat to be proud of. The air frame is original , it is curved delta tailless configuration , which makes it INHERENTLY UNSTABLE. This instability gives the maneouvrability in dog fight And the all the CONTROL LAWS were written in ADA , control laws are the most vital it will control , the yaw , pitch and roll. The air frame needs a specialist paint , not the kind ashish may think by buying from Asian Paints , these chemicals need to be electrostatically resistant otherwise you will get a lightening to cause an elecrtical short circuit. This chemical is synthesised in in Indian association for cultivation of science near my home in calcutta.More later , some work to do.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Shan,
    Assuming your knowledge of general engineering is even 100 times that your knowledge of electronics, it would still be 100 times zero.
    Now, take your rambling on the LCA; it is quite clear you know nothing about Yaw, Pitch and Roll.. far less of the “control laws”.
    Of course you really are in your elements when you talk about electrostatically resistant paints.

    Now, just so that I am not confused anymore- choose one from below
    - are you saying Indian companies are actually very innovative?
    - or, are you saying not all, only the government labs are innovative?

    Knowing your position will make it easier.
    By the way; when I say visit- I mean many visits; spread over many years and interactions and discussions on technology projects.
    And, now for your challenge:
    Examples please .. we are aware there is no tax to be paid for making sweeping statements or spewing bollocks. Every body knows and I have corrected the above plonker, in previous posting that American Micro Devices has three design centres in India in contrast to his beloved China. Now the Yanks ain’t
    going to pour in money for nothing. Would be interested to know what innovation if any has come from BPL or Videocon , just to break the slumber, Tata indica car’s engine is from Puegeot, The Nano’s engine is supplied by Bosch.

    I have never taken the names of the innovative companies as BPL or Videocon- it is surprising you remember names that were really in vogue 10 years back. The innovation ecosystem today has mostly many SMEs and also ITES companies doing world class design work for principals abroad. Many such designs result into IP owned by Indians, but many do not: a point I made to my reply to Biny Hegde.
    I suggest you read this:
    http://american.com/archive/2009/april-2009/the-indian-exception-proving-the-rule
    Of course, I do not expect you to understand the engineering challenges behind many of the examples cited in the article.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I hope you were not expecting any response from SHAN.

    He is fire and forget type of blogger.

    shan Reply:

    I am busy operating now, reply will come , in the form of hind quarter ampuatation. It didn’t go unnoticed you took all that time to SCAVENGE FROM THE INTERNET. Just keep praying , till my scalpel hits you.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish, , let the amputation of ignorance begin.
    Before any operation you need to prepare the area , like draping , antiseptic paint etc.
    In this case let me tell you a word or two about Dr K Subramanium.. He used to be a walking talking IAS officer, most likely without a science background . Being bored at the lack of any intellectual stimulation in his job , HE QUIT, and retrained himself in strategic matters. He is the one who exposed that the pakistani ghauri or shaheen or whatever was nothing but straight out of the gift wrap NORTH KOREAN nandong missile. Now how did he do it . He didn’t visit korea nor was a scientist in their lab. So how did he do it or how people do it. They follow the AIR TRAFFIC between pakistan and North Korea, and the flight trajectory , missile height , diameter , weight and shape and all other parameters. So you dont need to know every minutae to be able to comment . Just as Dr Samuel Johnson said to Boswell , “you dont need to make a chair yourself to qualify for commenting on chairs”. Much to your distress let me tell you I understand a lot about aeroplanes. I know what Bernoulli’s theorem is , I know what is principle behind the lift , though I might not know COMPUTATIONAL FLUID DYNAMICS .In your case it is all greek to you. Remember I had Letters Ie, >80% in physics , chemistry , maths in HS exam. So just pack up.
    Next is I asked for examples , you gave me a link . This is your mettle.
    Whatever that article you refer to you says is encapsulated in my sentence”Yanks aint going to pour in money for nothing. Everybody knows Indians do lot of design work for FOREIGN COMPANIES. Again designing a chip is one thing making is another . It is not printed circuit board. The process is mind blowingly sophisticated . It is done by a process called photo lithographic printing or whatever. So far I am aware only SCS , a Govt company in Haryana makes chips , but is probably TEN YEARS behind in submicron and VLSI(very large scale integration). The PS3 game console of Sony has MILITARY grade chips , which made Saddam buy thousands of them.So the fridge in your house is it godrej or voltas. The voltas refrigerator has compressor supplied by DANFLOS of Denmark.
    So what invention has GODREJ given to the world, nich.
    THE ORIGINAL RESEARCH LITTLE THAT HAS COME HAS COME FROM GOVT RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS. All the missiles , with a little reverse engineering of russian scuds and improving on it is highly commendable . Arjun may not have its engine but the KANCHAN armour and the guidance system is original . Some radars (Rajendra) though not top of the class by world standard , still highly respectful. Of the private sector PHARMA COMPANIES have done an outstanding job. Though none of the molecules are original , but they have synthesised through an alternate pathway thus avoiding the erstwhile indian patent laws. Drugs are the only Indian goods that are visible in UK and you see Dr Reddy’s Lab and Ranbaxy. By the way the article you referred to had a glaring error. RANBAXY is no longer an Indian company , it has been bought by a japanese company.
    Just keep in mind there is not a single public library in Delhi ,the only one is in calcutta , the national library , the one that is in delhi is for the MP’s only.I have given you example how my local library managed to get a book shipped from Univ oF Michigan that too astupid book by N K Singh. So green affliction become so obvious. the sum total is dont talk bullshit and dont let your

    Ashish Reply:

    @Shan,
    Again, a lot of half-baked facts masquerading as knowledge.
    Listen, and listen well: if my daughter stopped at getting a”letter” (>80%) in science and maths, I would die of shame; we have a “little” higher standards in academics in my family.
    There are only 2 reasons I do not disclose my identity on this blog (even though I have emailed under my true identity to both Gautam Chikermane and Zia Haq)
    - I have many friends in Delhi; many of them would be frankly amused that I spend so much time jousting with a vegetable such as you on the internet.
    - I consider it bad form, given my upbringing to let people know about my degrees or academic accomplishments etc- they are frankly irrelevant on this blog.
    So you understand how airplanes fly- and you cite Bernoulli’s theorem? Great; case closed. Oh, Dr Sham- even a 13 year old understands Bernoulli’s theorem- but, again, to a person with a mental level of a 5 year old, perhaps it is indeed great knowledge.
    Do not talk absolute ****- especially on technology. Especially gems such as “photo-lithographic printing or whatever”- and do not say things like “it is different from PCBs” as if you are announcing a secret which is known to only a few.
    SCL Mohali does not either design or make chips of any consequence- their fab is very old. True. The Only fabs in Asia are in just a few countries: Taiwan, China, Japan, Korea and Malaysia. But, what is the point that you are making? Fabs cost a lot to set up and the margins are razor-thin. They also depend on other infrastructure- roads, ports, electricity etc- the logistics network. Why would anyone in his right senses set up a fab in India?
    On the other hand, the R&D in embedded systems (for instance) is very high margin, does not need huge investments and can leverage our edge in tech manpower.
    So Indian entrepreneurs are investing and creating successes in R&D in embedded systems, molecular biology, drug discovery etc. Now, taking a new drug molecule to market is very expensive- I do not expect Indians will focus on that as a mainstream activity in the near future.
    Above all, understand that no one (either a company or a country) needs to focus on the entire value chain of a product or service- especially in today’s connected world.
    Now, for your claims of fantastic progress being made in government R&D- they are truly fantastic- I mean your claims, not the scientific progress.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish,

    RICHMOND, Va., April 28 /PRNewswire/ — Siemens AG Siemens AG

    German electrical-equipment manufacturer. The first Siemens company, Siemens & Halske, was founded in Berlin in 1847 to build telegraph installations. , Munich and Berlin, and Motorola, Schaumburg, Illinois, today celebrated the formal opening of White Oak Semiconductor, their $1.5 billion jointly owned semiconductor manufacturing facility near Richmond, Virginia.

    White Oak Semiconductor represents the combined skills of the parent companies to establish a state-of-the-art 8-inch semiconductor plant and become a benchmark in semiconductor manufacturing. It has already broken records as the first wafer fabrication facility to go from concrete to having first tools installed in 11 months. Most recently, it achieved first silicon of 64-megabit (MBit) DRAMs (Dynamic Random Access Memory Dynamic random access memory (DRAM) is a type of random access memory that stores each bit of data in a separate capacitor within an integrated circuit. Since real capacitors leak charge, the information eventually fades unless the capacitor charge is refreshed periodically. ) in 0.25 micron technology — believed to be the smallest in the world — in a record time of three months.
    So Siemens hasn’t got any “marketing” sense.
    WAKEY WAKEY.
    I dont know why I bother to answer such an ignorant buffoon. All you write is generalities no specifics , broad sweep , no technological insight . Just type wafer fabrication in google and you will know how sophisticated the process of fabricating a wafer is.

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish , for god’s sake or somebody’s sake do not bring anything relating to medicine , it is like lecturing me on surgery or lecturing bobby on theoretical physics. For your information Dr Reddy’s Lab had synthesised a molecule which is in the same class of Glucokinase gene activator drug Glitazones and is used for diabetic patients. But it could not progress beyond the phase 2 trial because of unacceptable side effects. The other remarkable acheivement is making Hepatitis B vaccine , only Smith Kine Beecham can make it.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    Can’t wait. I hope the patient knows that you learnt surgery from Lady Bird Books.

    Look forward to your IRRATIONAL, INHUMAN and completely irrelevant rant.

    Don’t you have to go to the Coventry Shakha today and shout at the top of your voice?

    Sangh Nich Marke.

    Lets see if you can keep to the point and not provide a list of disparate facts or boring anecdotes and of course no unnecessary venom against Muslims.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Shan,
    I made a point that no company presently in its right senses will set up a fab in India and you respond with a extract from a Siemens press release of a fab they have set up in Richmond VA . I am not sure I get the point.
    Unless you are particularly bad in geography- you can’t be imagining that Richmond VA is in India, can you?

    shan Reply:

    @ashish, your words
    Fabs cost a lot to set up and the margins are razor-thin. They also depend on other infrastructure- roads, ports, electricity etc- the logistics network. Why would anyone in his right senses set up a fab in India? Do you know the cost of CWG 4.5 Billion dollars. The above plant was set up at 1.5 billion dollars. NONE OF THE SO CALLED CORPORATE HOUSES (essentially Bewsa or Dhandha) IN INDIA HAS THE KNOW HOW TO CREATE ONE, FULL STOP. A few more things I can say about virginia, this is where Capt James Smith first produced a settlement known as Jamestown , his RED INDIAN wife POCAHONTAS is buried in a church courtyard few hundreed yards from where I live. The above press release was thrown on your face or as they say I have thrown the book at you, to debunk the myth of “razor thin margins”, being any consideration at all , or rather inability to create such a plant,due to lack of knowhow.

    Ashish Reply:

    @shan,
    you know nothing about the financial risks in the semicon business.
    Not to say about the difference between ownership of capital and ownership of IP and they being not necessarily the same.
    You are a troll.

    shan Reply:

    @The difference in capital and difference in International patents,let me tell me you air head
    I HAD ONCE FILED A PATENT WITH THE BRITISH PATENT OFFICE , for a contraceptive device , so I know a fair bit ,unlike you A SALESMAN , you are a loser A DISGRACE., or to recall what one blogger called you I retrieve it for you
    doomed says:
    August 16, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    You’ve lost your argument Ashish, constantly playing the “poor grammar” card makes you looks like a total loser. Since you’re going to be so anal about English Grammar, I’ll point out a childish spelling mistake you have made. When you start a sentence, the first word is in capitals – “Your” not “your”.
    What I find more hilarious is your refusal to admit defeat, constantly coming back like a cockroach with one leg.

  • S Singh

    The quest for permanent membership UN is the most stupid, egoistic sh– India should pursue now! A declining institutition caught in corruption scandals, inability to do anything good for the world, unable to prevent wars or genocides..Whyt would India want to expend energy on this cr..? We are still in a ‘coldwar” era, not aware of the speed with which S Korea, Singapore, china etc are marching..

    LEt us take care of domestic prosperity first before we play any international role. We can play international role with or without permanent membership. China’s strength is not coming from its permanent membership. Who cares about France? Or UK?

    [Reply]

  • Dronacharya

    What is India’s solid issue : What is India’s largest threat : It is not china or pakistan. It is RSS.

    RSS will undo India. The Idea of India., the Republic of India., and the Constitution of India. It has the potential to turn India into ashes. Nehru realised this early on… and he wrote it too… but we took it lightly (it fed our ego and majority machismo). But now we know the danger from this Hindutva Taliban. They will destroy Hinduism.

    GOPI THOMAS : You have lots of time on your hand., so i want you to write on the real danger to India.. which is from RSS. RSS is a terrorist organisation., and that is the plainest truth., plainly told. Infact it is the world’s largest terrorist organisation with its institutionalised riot systems. Read Martha Nassbaum’s book. There are thousands of commission of enquiry reports gathering dust implicating RSS. RSS’s mask (maukhata) has fallen… and we know now… what it really is. The cat is out of the bag.

    Read Martha Nassbaum’s book. Elaborate on the theme. Strengthen the IDEA of India. That is the greatest service u can do thru ur pen.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Hinduism has survived six thousand years as a belief system; it will survive eternally. No need for Muslim weeping here.

    RSS personnel should be arrested and tried if they have done criminal activities.

    The threat to India and the world at this time is from fundamentalist extremist Muslim jehadis, both homegrown, like PFI/SDPI who cut off the hand of the professor, and the Pakistani trained Jehadis.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr binoy brhmn zoinism (rss) should be fought at every level.because it is zoinism.india can not be progressed till this evil is buried for ever.its basic thought is to enslave local population.kill them mentally and physically.

    [Reply]

    sachcha sauda Reply:

    binoy brhmn is race it is not religion.just

    [Reply]

    WERT Reply:

    Dronacharya Ji

    Many thanks for the reference to Martha Nassbaum’s Book. I will buy it today.

    [Reply]

  • sachcha sauda

    @vinay, 100% agree, you forgot to mention SWEDEN 90 lakh population, makes two world class cars VOLVO and SAAB , gave the world Abba , Bjorn Borg in Tennis, Ericcson is world leader in Telecommunication, so is Astra who invented OMeprazole , the anti ulcer drug , not to forget BOFORS gun , which Americans have in their armoury , and that invincible SAAB VIGGEN

    MR SHAN WE ARE NO LESS TO THEM.WE HAVE INVENTED GANESH ONLY HE,IS GIVING MORE MONEY AND COMFORTS THAN SAAB AND ERRICSSON.MORE OVER DURING GOOD DAYS THIS BUSSINES WHILE IN RECCESSION,IT IS MORE GOOD.NOT ONLY HAPPY COMES LOSERS ALSO COME.

    33 crores devtas keep india close for 90 days/year..swedish people get what they get through hard labour.indians get promise and satisfaction by praying them.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    well said the epitome of that particular variety of indian is a blogger in this blog and his name is Ashish , like the Ravi pakistani, Ashish kamchor , faltu hindustani.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    I see true to your basic values of RATIONALISM and HUMANISM, you produce another gem of a rational statement.

    …”well said the epitome of that particular variety of indian is a blogger in this blog and his name is Ashish , like the Ravi pakistani, Ashish kamchor , faltu hindustani….”

    I notice that these values were also postulated by the arch coward Savarkar;….” The five philosophical dimensions of Savarkar were Utilitarianism, Rationalism and Positivism, Humanism and Universalism, Pragmatism and Realism…”

    We all know he first put forward the fascist concept of HINDUATVA……you favourite philosophy.

    I may or may not be a Pakistani, but you are definitely a congenital imbecile.

    [Reply]

    sachcha sauda Reply:

    ravi u dont know savarkar was homosexual.dont give him much importance.by writing much about him.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Look muslims are talking about homosexualisty…Saale Bacchebaaz..

  • ram autar

    dear shan,

    Muslims of the undivided India became the worst victims of Brahminism because Islam posed an all-round threat to its exploitative tenets. To escape from the horrors of Brahminism, they asked for seprate electorate.
    Bengal had the largest concentration of Muslims and that is how the Brahminical terrorist party took its birth in Bengal to prevent the large-scale conversion of Dalits into Islam. . Tilak, a Chitpavan Brahmin from Pune, became the father of the anti-Muslim war and violence by staging Ganapati festival. The first riot took place in Bombay in 1893.

    Dalits preferred Islam: A Bengali Brahmin, Bankim Chandra Chatterji, wrote the Anand Math, inciting “Hindus” to kill Muslims and also composed the notorious anti-Muslim song, Vande Mataram. When the persecuted Muslims, unable to bear Brahminical violence, appealed to the then British rulers they partitioned Bengal creating a Muslim-majority district (1905) against which the Brahminists launched a violent agitation. The Congress Party virtually became a Brahminist weapon. Tagore led the struggle against the partition of Bengal. The British were then forced to annul the partition.

    It is this unending Brahminical hatred of Muslims that forced them to seek a separate country.

    M.K. Gandhi, as Hindu leader, was the no.1 conspirator to drive Muslims out of India. Arya Samaj, became a violent movement to fight Muslims.

    The author says the principal grouse of the Brahminists was that the Untouchables of India preferred conversion to Islam by which they ceased to be Untouchable. It is the wholesale conversion of Dalits that upset the Brahminists because that decreased the “Hindu population”. To fight such conversions they started the RSS.

    All the top Brahmins like Tilak, Gokhale, Bankim Chandra Chatterji, M.M. Malaviya, Lala Lajpat Rai, Surendranath Banerji called upon the “Hindus” to arm themselves to fight and kill Muslims. This led to widespread anti-Muslim riots in many parts of India with hundreds killed. It was at this juncture the beleaguered Muslims launched the Muslim League headed by Jinnah to assert the rights of Muslims who then formed 1/5 of India. Arya Samaj was in the forefront of fomenting anti-Muslim riots. The Moplah rebellion of Kerala (1921) was a major event of all-India importance. Gandhi played an important role in provoking Hindus.

    Pendrel Moon, a noted British author of the book, Divide & Quit, said:

    “The Hindus say Muslims were brothers but would in fact treat them as less than step-brothers”.

    Abul Kalam Azad, a Brahminical stooge, was the only one who went with Gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Pakistan teaches distorted history to its youngsters – that their history starts with bin Quasin, that they are the descendents of Arabs, that Aurangazebw was the greatest Mughal King, that Pakistan existed 7000 years ago (while India did not because there was no “India’ then) etc etc.. and you know where that ha s taken that country..

    Muslims like you are doing a disservice to Indian Muslims by spreading falsehoods.

    “The Moplah rebelllion of Kerala (1921) was a major event of all-India importance. Gandhi played an important role in provoking Hindus”.

    The Moplah rebellion remains as the second worst Muslim attack and conversions and looting and raping in Kerala; the worst being the one undertaken by Tipu Sultan hundred years earlier as a part of his “patayottam” (fast fight). Tipu Sultan razed temples (And Christian churches — the only destroyer of christian worship palces in India’s history), his army raped women, converted lakhs and lakhs of Hindus (and some Managlore Christians), looted temples. and destroyed churches…

    So fast forward. Mahathma Gandhi being a cunning politician, decides to co-opt Khilafet movement; he thought this will make Muslims of India joining the freedom fight against the British (because Muslims were not a part of the freedom movement until then).

    The Khilafet movement (led by Ali brothers) was very much like the AlQueda movement now, minus the violence (initially). What was the purpose of IINDIAN Muslims through Khilafet ?1) Restore the Turkish Califate 2) to force Britain to guarantee the protection of Mecca and Medina 3) to meet with the Foreign Secretry in London to settle the world Muslims’ problems as a result of the first world war and dissolution of the Ottoman empire –None of these had anything to do with India!).

    So, at the tail end of Khilafet movement, one Ali Muslyar in Tirur , in the current Malappuram district (Muslims in Kerala have started a movement to make Tirur another Muslim district) , started a rumour that Delhi has fallen (from the British) and a new Caliph has been appointed, and that he (Ali Muslyar) is his representative in Malabar. Muslims go bananas, they celebrate, and then an orgy starts…similar pattern — killing, raping, looting.,, destroying temples, converting.. North Malabar region of Kerala is Muslim dominant dute to the conversiona nd violence as a result of Tipu’s attacks and later Mopla riots.

    British was unprepared to handle this. Two weeks of this orgy ended in too many deaths, too many conversions, too many women raped in front of their husbands.. Annie Beasant visited Malabar and wrote a letter to the Governor General, that is still in the archives. Malabar Special Police (MSP) was created by the British after this, so they can handle the communal riots and the special alw and order problem in the futrure.

    The famous Malayalam poet at that time, Kumaran Aasan, wrote the famous poem “Duravastha” (“Bad/Sad situation/existence”) depicting the story (real) of a Naamboodiri woman who was raped in front of her husband and brother ,later converted and forcefully married to the Muslim rapist.

    Maahathma Gandhi started diasaasociating with Khilafet movement with these acts of violence; and another attack on police in north India made him completely disassociate with Khilafet movement. Khilafet movement ended in a natural death when Mustafa Attaturk Kamal Pasha arrested all Mullahs and declared Turkey a republic, free of Mullah intervention.

    Fast forward to 1990s. The Marxist government declares that Moplah Lahala (riots) was an agrarian revolution.,a nd not an orgy of rape and conversion (Marxists thought they will get Muslim votes! little that they knew) 2) They ban “Duravastha” the famous poem by the “Mahakavi” (great Poet ) – (for who talks about the Brahmin control, Kumaran Aasan, the Maha kavi, was an Ezhava, one lower caste) – the poem is banned from school and college text books because Marxists feel that the poem will create inter religious riots. So, that is secularism for you.

    We talk about why would a Banaglore Muslim boy explode in UK for the cause of Iraq.. this is nothing new..as you can see in Khilafet — why would Indian Muslims care about Turkey more than joining the freedom movement of india//// .

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    “The Moplah rebelllion of Kerala (1921) was a major event of all-India importance. Gandhi played an important role in provoking Hindus

    gopi mopalah revolt was against british occupiers.later when hindu lanslords,nairs etc joined britishers in crushing that revolt fight was started against them.malayali muslims were main
    victim of that freedom struggle.ghandhi supported this in the begining.later succumed to the pressure of vedics.
    remaining all is lie and propagana.atrocities were committed from both side .but being weak muslms suffered most.brhmnst joined the hands with imperialists to crush true indians.

    regarding aurangzeb.it is fact that aurangzeb was the greatest ruler of all times.ONLY IN HIS TIME INDIA WAS ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER WITH GDP 25.5%OF WORLD.exceeding the economy of china.
    HE PUT HIS OWN SON IN JAIL FOR 18 YEARS on graft charges.PEOPLE of all religion and race lived happily like brothers during his era.had 36.5 % ministers wre hindu.with cnc raja jaisingh and pm chandu khatri of lahore.
    for most of his life he remained in battlefield fighting for integrity and unity of india.for
    his personal expenses he used to write holy quran,will stich caps in night.his personal wealth by writing quran was given to muslims while by stiching caps was distributed to hindus after his masoleum till today is managed by hindus.

    britishers demonized him through lies,as he was great indian.there local agents are carrying this torch with full sincerity.

    regarding pak claim of 7000 yrs is right.at the of partition ARYANS GAVE ,SINDH TO PAKISTAN as they had no much history there.TOOK THE ind.their first halt was at the bank of ganga not sindhu river.SIDHU IS OLDER THAN INDU.ONE BRHMN POET HAS WRITTEN the following,
    aae abroode ganga
    woh din hai yaad tujhko
    utra tere kinare
    jab carvan hamara
    mzhab nahin sikhata
    aapas mein bair rakhna
    hindi hain hum watan hai
    hindoostan hamara

    why u talk of banglore boy ,why not talk australia.why not talk talk of muslim killing when few nepalis were killed by freedom fighters by mistake.

    KHILAFAT WAS STARTED BY GHANDHI TO FOOL MUSLIMS.JINNAH WAS TOTALLY OPPOSE TO this .REASON WAS TO ANNUL THE DIVISION OF BENGAL.
    RUBBISH POEM WERE WRITTEN BY brhmnst to divide society.since partition they have organized 600 roits,in which thousands of muslim infants were burnt alive and women raped.
    nobody punished.lie and hatred is their staple food.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    aryans divided india between ind(indus valley civilization)and hind.ind is 7000 yers old.sindhis have cahnge religion not race.

    Vinay Reply:

    @Gopi

    Regarding Tipu: Most of his history has been recorded by British, who were treated very brutal by him. But he was nice to Hindus in his kingdom. He may have been a nasty mother in law for Coorg, Malabar (Kerala) and British, but was a kind mother for people of Mysore kingdom. Most of the time, historians portray only one side of him, whichever is convenient to them. Either as a national hero (by secular historians), because he opposed British (conveniently forgetting, he was taking French help who also wanted to rule India), or classify him like Aurangzeb (by Saffron historians). He was neither. He was just another king.

    Whatever he was (hero for old Mysore and villain for Malabar, Coorg), his boundaries were limited to Karnataka and Kerala. He belonged to south of India. I don’t understand, why a Pakistani need to study Tipu in his history. Girish Karnad has written a play on Tipu in Kannada which has been translated to English (Dreams of Tipu Sultan). Seems, this play is popular in Pakistan, recently being performed in Lahore Grammar School. Tipu would never have dreamt, he would be remembered by the decedents of the Duranni empire, thousands of miles away, after two hundred years. (These study him more than us. They could have chosen Taxila instead). What mixed up identities!

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vinay, this the schizophrenia that Naipaul speaks of. . I met a pakistani female doctor , whose family originally came to pakistan from Lucknow. because she was rather fair skinned she invented this identity , that her family had descended from the mughals. The same phenomenon is seen with shiraz uddullah. In the popular open air theatres he is portayed as the last tragic ruler of Bengal and Mirzaffar the villain. But Mirzaffar’s great great great great grandson who is a historian has some different tale to tell . To start with he was a son a ***** , womaniser always prowling on early widowed HINDU girls , incompetent to the core , drunkard.His eviction was plotted by the state banker Jagat seth , along with Mirzaffar , as they were fed up with his antics. This also sadly illustrates the state of India at the time . NO WONDER , father of Modern India Raja Ram Mohan Roy , said to a french traveller , that he wants to see the english stay in India for some time to come.

    ram autar Reply:

    shan u are victim of rss/british propaganda.and why u should NOT.under his rule nobody was starved to death.in first50 yrs of british rule half the population of bengal bihar and orrisa was starved to death india was robbed,right left and centre,with the help of ur forefathers.just to incite hindus ,in every story one hindu girl comes.this is rubbish.
    ur forefathers converted sonar bangla into bhoot bangla by helping supporting british robbers.
    britishers were calling mirzafar,a foolish nawab.britisher took 2million pound to make him nawab.he has to sell his household items to collect this.sirajudaullah was great nawab.
    mir zafar and his hindu bankers werte traitors.like bankim and his criminal terrorist gang.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar

    I was hoping that you would put this dim wit SHAN in his place. I am glad that you did.

  • Binoy Hegde

    what a joke – all the jokers with their names in small letters ram awtar = sacha saudia = vinayak purohit =

    either the jokers get out, or Zia’s blogs go down

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    what a joke – all the jokers with their names in small letters ram awtar = sacha saudia = vinayak purohit =

    why u forget dronacharya.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Even shan is in lower case.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    @Raju Kurien @ Ashish @ Jindal @ Shan

    Raju’s allocation of growth factors (as to how a 15% growth is easily possible) is interesting and informative. I would say he left out the elephant in the room – the drain because of Pakistan dragging us into Pakistan . Raju said 1.5% growth is possible thru adminsitrative reforms, 2% thru Infrastructure, and 2% thru innovation.

    We have to get out of Pakistancentric paradigm. Today we are in G20. We are sending $10 billion to US; (whereas US is supporting Pak on life support system). Cameron came to India one month after his election. Indian companies are listed on NYSE. Tata, Infosys, Wipro, Bharati tel etc are Fortune 500c ompanies. By focusing on Pakistan, we are regressing to the sixties. Appropriate defence should be there, whether that justifies the curent staggering spending, I am not sure. But it is a must that the mindshare of Mrs Nirupama Rao, Mukherjee etc has to be 90% US/SE Asia/select European countries/Russia etc working with whom our economy will leapafrog further. Pakistan has to be contained, but there is no meaning in spending energy on improving relations or trade –that energy should be spent on growth producing areas.. It will add another 3% growth!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy fair enough.

    If viewed purely from an economic angle, what you say makes perfect sense. However, international relations are hardly ever conducted on pure economic lines. Sadly nations have emotions just as individuals do.

    International community led by USA believe that increased trade between Pakistan and India will lead towards normalisation of relations and as a result both countries can stop wasting resources on defence and focus more on growth.

    India is now so far ahead of Pakistan that there is no real danger of it ever catching us up as a direct result of our trade with them.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Classical response of a ISI man. Americans have said umpteen times to Pakistan , “get out of your obsession with India”. Now mark the answer “WE CANT”

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    HINDU FUNDO SHAN

    How what you have written above follows from what I said.

    Perhaps you can explain in your CLASSICAL RATIONAL and HUMANISTIC WAY.

    So my sugesstion that trade between India and Pakistan will help normalise relations leads to PKISTAN’s INDIA OBSESSION…not sure how.

    Were i to find you being torn apart alive by rabid dogs, i’d merrily sell popcorn.

    S Singh Reply:

    Binoy

    You are right that India should pull all levers of growth so more of its citizens can move on to better lives. We should acknowledge politicians and government are slow, and everything is 10-15 yr plan. I believe significant growth is possible if communities organize and manage the affairs. For example, residents of Indira Nagar should ensure the streets are clean, that there is some free adult edcation/counselling/coaching etc services for the disadvantaged, so some can be pulled out of the cycles of poverty, maintaining some free transportation (two old buses) so workers can be taken to construction projects nearby etc..

    I agree with you Pakistan is a drag and the govt should not spend any additional energy other than what is needed to protect the borders. Pakistan seems to be in a race to catch up with Somalia.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    There is no doubt in my mind that Pkaistan is a drag and the less we have to spend dealing with it, the better.

    But how?

    That is where the more saner voices advocate trade.

    However, we do trade with China, dont we? After all China is a greater threat to India than Pakistan is.

    We have won all our wars with Pakistan and lost the only one we had with China.

    S Singh Reply:

    No problem with trade. However, I will not spend enormous energy on developing that; or let them come up with plans, we review, suggest changes –let them do all the preliminary work. Time to think — if there is only 24 hrs in a day, where do I spend my hours?

    Ravi Reply:

    S Shan

    If we do not spend time developing trade then it is hardly likely to happen.

    No trade means – Pakistan the problem – is likely to persist.

    S Singh Reply:

    The only way it will get my “vote” is if there is a guarantee that Pakistanis can control the extremist Islamists. So far, Pkistanis seem to be in collusion with these undesirables, using them (by handing over onesees and twosees to US) .. I am not for any “hope”… Hope is not a solution, neither a strategy. We should hitch to tangible benefit producing endeavours., while accepting that Muslims will initiate terrorism from that land,a nd doing everything to protect

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    We are getting towards a consensus here.

    Good would look like.

    Pakistan to stop using Islamic Fundamentalists as a weapon of choice against India.

    A solution to be found – around status quo – for the Kashmir issue.

    Trade and sporting contacts to resume.

    However, I am sure that there are vested interests on both sides which will prevent this from happening. They will use religion as a mechanism to further their disruptive objectives.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi Azhar has become like a dog..who is barking but no one is paying attention..

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    I don’t hear any dogs barking, but I do hear the rant of a RUNT, you

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi Talibani,
    You have been exposed..now it is time for you to say ‘BYE’ (as you did once) and buzz off…
    Do you know why you hear that runt because some mullah is humping you…

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    Well the RUNT is coming from you…that means you must be a MULLAH.

    Say Bye.

    Why when I am having so much fun in making sure, all you are able to do is to submit un-substantiated, RANTS.

    The readers of this blog are no fools.

    I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

    Ashish Reply:

    @Raju Kurien, Binoy Hegde..
    I wish I could agree to the factors of growth being “independent variables” so that you can safely add them up. Actually, many are “dependent variables”- on each other- and obviously, the political and sociological factors are not heeded. The trouble is that many times, the various factors counter-balance.
    As an example, the relentless pursuit of growth (in GDP) may be non-inclusive (and, though I have not had a chance to follow the links that Bobby posted), I guess that is what he is alluding to.
    Now, to pursue inclusive growth agenda, you will need to have reservations, social sector spendings, reforms in admin machinery and so on.. many of them have long gestation period before they produce results.
    Which is why, turbo charging the growth rate to 15% may either be impossible or undesirable.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    You see Ravi is back with a bang with his talibani brothers Ram Autar, Vinayak, sacha sauda etc…Now there is no doubt that this Ravi is talibani using multiple handles or working with other talibanis.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    he is like ravan with ten heads.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    :) , :) , :) , :) , ;) , :) , :) , :) , :) , :)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    But Ravan was not a child molester like Mohammad…He has some moral..whereas pychopath Mohammad had no morals.
    :) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :)

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mullah ram autar,
    Mohammad = Ravan – 10 heads – brains + child molester + Caravan Robber + Incest loving + terrorist

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    I have resisted this over the last month, as you seem to be in the habbit of bringing up incest.

    Here are some home truths you may like to read while tightening your LUN GOAT.

    INCEST IN INDIA,,,,

    Just how big an issue is incest in India? Well obviously a topic like this will always be in the shadows and one may have even to look at the definition of the word “incest”. In South India, marriages happen between cousins (especially cross-cousins, that is, the children of a brother and sister) and even between uncles and nieces (especially a man and his elder sister’s daughter). That is culturally acceptable and would not be termed as an incestuous relationship.

    A report produced by the BBC a decade ago had opined citing research sources that Close-knit family life in India masks an alarming amount of sexual abuse of children and teenage girls by family members. It said that that disbelief, denial and cover-up to preserve the family reputation is often put before the individual child and its abuse. A report from RAHI, a Delhi based NGO working with child sexual abuse titled “ Voices from the Silent Zone,” suggests that nearly three-quarters of upper and middle class Indian women are abused by a family member – more than often an uncle, a cousin or an elder brother.

    Indeed, sexual abuse of children in any form of household setting by a family member in India is among the most urgent forms of child abuse which our society must address. As per women’s organizations and activists nearly ninety-five percent of the abused are girls and more than ninety-five percent abusers are males. Surveys carried out in schools and informal chats reveal that around 40% girls experience incest abuse or sexual abuse in one or the other form in India. How deep the ice berg is can perhaps be gauged by the fact that 6% of all calls made to CHILDLINE (a 24-hour Indian helpline for children in distress) in the last ten years have reported Child Sexual Abuse(CSA) — 6% of 10 million calls! There probably could not be greater statistical validation that CSA/incest is the most under-reported child rights violations in India.

    In India, there is no single law that specifically deals with child abuse, and there is no clear delineation of sexual abuse in the Indian Penal Code. Indian laws consider only “assault to outrage the modesty of a woman,” rape by penile penetration, and “unnatural sexual intercourse” like sodomy as punishable sexual crimes.

    Although, there are lawyers and child rights activists who are ready to spell, explain, and act against incest and abuse they are still not a critical mass and their views strong enough to be able to impact consciousness of the policymakers, police, lawyers, judges, teachers, schools, mental, physical and sexual health professionals, and all those who could take up the issue.

    Although the issues of shame, family honour and plain depravity means that very little statistics are available, it also means that every statistic available speaks not just for itself for a lot many others in the shadows, children and girls who invisible and will because of the abuse and betrayal they have faced, retreat further into the darkness and possibly out of reach of help. For organizations like RAHI, the RAASTA is indeed long and a lot more RAAHGIRs are needed to fight this mammoth dark monster.

    http://www.groundreport.com/Lifestyle/Incest-Indias-Hidden-Shame/2899767

    Ravi Reply:

    All

    This covers a sensitive subject and I am forced to include it here because this moron Rajiv on a number of occassions has stated that Isalm is full of incest, bachabazi, etc etc.

    Just to balance and provide some emperical evidence that the problem is not as foriegn to us as he may imagine.

    I do not mean to offend. Either he stops or I will have no choice but to strike a balance.

    Ravi

    _____________________________________________________________

    India’s hidden incest

    By South Asia Correspondent Daniel Lak

    Close-knit family life in India masks an alarming amount of sexual abuse of children and teenage girls by family members, a new report suggests.

    Daniel Lak speaks to women from the report who have suffered rape at the hands of male relatives Delhi organisation RAHI said 76% of respondents to its survey had been abused when they were children – 40% of those by a family member.

    The report suggests that disbelief, denial and cover-up to preserve the family reputation is often put before the individual child. Women who gave evidence to RAHI spoke of the nightmare of abuse that haunts them still.

    “Every time my parents went out to a party the ******* used to do it,” said one.

    Another said: “When I told people in my family about the abuse there was hostility, contempt and anger targeted at me – I became an outcast.”

    RAHI founder Anjua Gupta said she set up the organisation because she believed sexual abuse was rampant in Indian families and no one was doing anything about it.

    “When I started working in this area people used to say ‘Where are the Indian statistics?’. It was thought of as a Western phenomenon.

    “One of the reasons there hasn’t been any data collection is because it is not considered to be an Indian problem.”

    The report, Voices from the Silent Zone, suggests that nearly three-quarters of upper and middle class Indian women are abused by a family member – more than often an uncle, a cousin or an elder brother.

    Disbelief, denial and cover-up

    Incest and child sexual abuse occurs everywhere.

    Psychiatrist Achal Baghat says the particular problem in India is that the concept of family is almost sacred, and abuse, if it happens, is met with disbelief.

    “I think there is a great myth about Indian family systems being supportive,” he says.

    “What do you do if you’re the mother in a family where the child is being abused? You do not have that much power to do anything about the abuse.

    “Generally there is this thing about harming the name of the family. This need to prevent the family being laughed at leads to a lot of cover-ups.”

    Women on a pedestal

    Activists in the field say the position of women in India is another problem. Society puts them on a pedestal as mothers and wives, but doesn’t allow for their protection from domestic abuse.

    Voices from the Silent Zone pinpoints another problem facing victims of abuse in India – the complete absence of any structure outside the family to help with abuse.

    Achal Baghat says he often faces the grimmest of choices when considering how to help the victim.

    “What is there if not the family? Where are the other support systems? There aren’t any. There might be a few NGOs working in India – but can they really cope?

    “The juvenile homes, the social support system is so lacking and so insensitive to the children, that I wouldn’t be sure what is worse – to stay with an abusive family, or the environment the system would put them in.”

    Changing the law

    In India, there is no specific law covering sexual abuse of children by strangers, let alone by family members. The legal definition of rape calls for proof that the rapist actually penetrated a victim, even a young child.

    Judges have even said that it is impossible for fathers to rape their daughters, despite evidence to the contrary.

    In the end, all Indian counsellors and activists can do to help victims of abuse is convince them that nothing has been their fault; that they are a survivor of a damaging, but not necessarily fatal experience, and they can continue to live life – never forgetting what happened to them, but getting on with it.

    Everyone who works with victims and survivors of abuse agrees that awareness begins in the schoolyard. But in a profoundly conservative society like India, raising such sensitive issues in school would be controversial.

    The chances that more than half of India’s schoolgirls have experienced or will experience sexual abuse remain very high.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Family facts of the abused

    68% were living in nuclear families
    16% in semi-joint families (nuclear and grandparents)
    15% in joint families (extended)
    Mothers of the abused

    Despite common perception that the mothers of abused children were working, the report said that of those surveyed who said they were abused, 60% of mothers were housewives and 40% were employed.

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    Some more interesting study for you.

    devadasi

    Devadasi is a religious practice in parts of southern India, including Andhra Pradesh, whereby parents marry a daughter to a deity or a temple.The marriage usually occurs before the girl reaches puberty and requires the girl to become a prostitute for upper-caste community members. Such girls are known as jogini. They are forbidden to enter into a real marriage.

    Joginis are recognised by their copper bangles, the band they wear round their necks with a leather pendant and a long necklace with several pendants which have the image of Goddess Yellamma.

    The practice was legal in India until1988, yet it still continues as is evidenced by the testimony of a 35-year-old former jogini named Ashama. She ran away from her village and returned to lead the fight to abolish the illegal practice. The local police do not enforce the law and the villagers themselves make no effort to abolish the heinous practice.
    Since the day of the initiation, I have not lived with dignity. I became available for all the men who inhabited Karni. They would ask me for sexual favours and I, as a jogini, was expected to please them. My trauma began even when I had not attained puberty.*

    Ashama was seven when her parents married her to the local god. She was recently awarded the Neerja Bhanot award for courage.

    The practice of religious prostitution is known as basivi in Karnataka and matangi in Maharastra. It is also known as venkatasani, nailis, muralis and theradiyan.
    It has been the Atheist Centre of Vijayawada, India, that has been most instrum
    ental in the movement to eradicate this pernicious religious custom.

    further reading

    book

    Singh, Nagendra Kumar. Divine Prostitution (New Delhi: A. P. H. Publishing Corporation, 1997).

    websites
    Eradication of the Jogini System

    Human Rights Watch, Broken People: Caste Violence Against India’s “Untouchables” (New York: Human Rights Watch, 1999), Chapter VII.)

    200 “Potharajus” quit age-old profession

    A Devadasi (Jogathi) carrying a copper vessel on her head

    Hindu Women

    This is from this site:

    http://www.skepdic.com/devadasi.html

    ram autar Reply:

    RAJEEV,
    I AM FROM HINDI BELT DURING RAMLILA RAVAN IS SHOWN WITH 10 HEADS.i asked with
    brhmns why.he awnsered,ravan was brahmn knew 10 languages.main head is depicted as donkey head.i asked pundit ,why like this.PUNDIT AWNSERED ,HE WAS EXPERT OF GURUMUKHI.

    ram autar Reply:

    RAJEEV,I was so happy to read that thousands of Dalits of Kanpur on Sept.2008 took out a procession and held Ravana Mela to protest against the burning of ravana effigies on Dasara.

    Ravana is the hero of the original inhabitants of India. Dalits all over India must start worshipping Ravana as the hero of the Asuras — non-Aryans.

    It is very nice to know the natives of India are being called the Moolnivasi Bahujans. Hinduism is swimming only on the policy of dividing different castes

    shan Reply:

    @Ram Autar, this will warm the cockles of your heart. In west bengal there is a place called Maldah , that place also has a sizeable population of SANTHALS. Durga puja is the time for their moourning , not celebration , for reasons that you state. BUT FOR GOD’S SAKE (or somebody’s sake , because I am an atheist)SAY SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE unless you are also a pakistani like Ravi.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    This is rich coming from a man whose middle name is NEGATIVE.

    ALI SHAN atheist, my foot, more like SAFFRON terrorist, a HINDU FUNDO, a member of the Coventry Shakha of RSS.

    Remeber two can play this game. Please do continue this name calling, it gives me a free go at juxtaposing the words terrorist and Fundo with Hindu.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Looking at Ravi’s rant in response to my equation of Ravana-Mohammad, you can infer that he is hard-core fanatic muslims who is abusing hinduism to DEFEND Islam and Pedo Mohammad.

    Case Closed…

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    You seem to be too eager to close the case, without making any point to counter.

    1. That the devdasi tradion means pre pubscent girls are married to dieties and then raped by HINDU Priests as well as other rich people in the town.

    2. Incest is is common in Indian society that it even gets mentioned in films.

    Case remains open until you answer these points.

    Your IQ is lower than that of George W. Bush!

    Ravi Reply:

    This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    See all terrorists agreeing with each other.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    u mean to say terrorist of sangh parivar.

  • Binoy Hegde

    @Singh

    An interesting column today in NY Times talks about the community involvement/growth you mentioned — of all the places , Pakistan.

    Nicholas Kristoff , in todays NYT, has a column despatched from Islamabad ,a bout TCF (the Citizns Foundation). It is a middle class started organization (fed up with terrorisma nd government ineptitude) supported by the business people. They run 600 excellent shigh schools throughout Pakistan, targeted at poor students. Apparently, these schools do significantly better tah government run schools, children are optimistic about future. Kristoff was all praise for this organization.

    Now that a motivated group can start from scratch and reach upto 600 high schools is a big thing. I am nota ware of any “ground movement” like this in india. While a national scale may be difficyult, it definitely is worth imitating in BIMARU states.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Binoy

    I think you may wish to hear this excellant Lecture by Martha Nussbaum, the Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics at the University of Chicago.

    http://chiasmos.uchicago.edu/events/nussbaum.shtml

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Just been watching this, just to get rid of all that angst about politics.

    This is my India; this is the India I love.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvKsrqCwyGQ&feature=related

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    My India.. since when talibani ;)

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    You are a gross ignoramus — 144 times worse than an ordinary ignoramus

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Oh yeah…a talibani is saying this..awesome..

    ram autar Reply:

    rajeev do u issue certificate ,who is indian who is not.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Yes..

  • Binoy Hegde

    Vinay

    Regarding your note on Lahore (And other Pakistani) schools performing the play about Tipu Sultan (who as you said was far far far south of them and no connection) — (and why not Taksha Shila??)

    The country is an identity crisis, an identify fraud committed by their own leaders and army to keep them suppressed and “wanting”. Nadeem Pacha, in a recent column in Dwan, talked about the craze they ahve theer now to chart their lineage to Saudi Arabia/or Aarb land. There is a fellow bby the name QT Khan (must be the bomb nmakers brother!) who is the author of all history books taught there. And I am not joking here , it seems his book says “Pakistan is an old culture going back to 7000 years.. And at that time there was no India” .. One would think they will get rid of the baggage, leave their constant comparisons with india, and move on. Looks like the cancer has hit the core.

    Today they ahd another bombing in Karachi. At least this time it was not Sufi or Shia or Ahamdiya mosques. May be no more of those mosques to bomb?

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    @Binoy,

    Even I love his (NFP) blog. Its really funny. The way he mixes Aurangzeb and Zia Ul Haq as “Aurangzeb-ul-Haq” and the way he describes him: “Aurangzeb took over the throne by peacefully blinding his dad and equally peacefully killing his two brothers”.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    VINAY KINGSHIP DONT RECOGNIZE KINSSHIP.in geeta lord krishna orders ARJUN to kill all his cousins and uncles.
    shahjahan wanted dara to become ruler on the insistence of his last wife who tried twice to kill aurangzeb twice.
    ashok killed his 99 brothers.he imprisoned his father.not blinded him.AURANGZEB WAS AN EXAMPLARY RULER.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Today they ahd another bombing in Karachi. At least this time it was not Sufi or Shia or Ahamdiya mosques. May be no more of those mosques to bomb?

    all these things started after after arrival of americans.now they are licking their wounds and searching for honourable exit.things will be calm.thousands of years people of that area were living peacefully.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Brahminists do not believe in god. But they sell god to us to deceive us and make money. They threaten us and bully us in the name of god. They believe not in god — but Satan.

    RAJEEV UR GEROGATORY REMARKS ARE OLD CHURCH PROPAGANDA BASED ON LIES.
    u will get truth about brahma soon.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    THUS SPAKE PERIYAR

    Brahmin punishment to shudras
    Christening: Good and auspicious names should be given to the Brahmins only. Kshatriyas should be given names connoting braveness and valour. Vaisyas’s name should be based on articles.

    Sudras alone should be given names meaning disgrace and degradation. Further the word “Dasan” should be the suffix for all the sudra names. (Chap.2, S.31 and 32).

    A Brahmin’s “Poonul” (thread) should be made of cotton. Khatriyas Poonul should be made 3 of janappa threads. Vaisyas Poonul should be made of goat’s hair. (Chap. 2.S.44).

    Pigs & sudras: Any eatable article becomes polluted and unfit for consumption when:

    (1) A pig dashes against, (2) hens and **** fly over, (3) when a dog looks at, (4) when a sudra touches. (Chap.3.S.241).

    Any one, who offers anything eatable to a sudra after the ceremony will go to hell. Such a fool will be punished there. He will have to live there upside down. (Chap.3.S.249).

    If the Brahmins happen to eat anything that has been tasted or touched by a sudra, that Brahmin should have intercourse with his wife that night and the dead will live in the motion of the wife for a month (Chap.3.S.250).

    There are seven varieties of sudras:

    (1) He who retreats in a war. (2) A prisoner in a war. (3) One who serves a Brahmin out of devotion. (4) Son of a prostitute. (5) One who is purchased. (6) One who is adopted. (7) One who is a traditional worker. (Chap.8.S.415).

    Duties of the sudra: A sudra worships a Brahmin either for salvation or for his livelihood. It will be a good thing for him if he calls all others inferior to Brahmins. (Chap.10.S.122).

    As the Kshatriyas have failed to perform rituals and as they neglected to worship the Brahmins, they are becoming sudras (Chap.10.S.43).

    In any congregation, the Brahmin alone should eat first. If there is balance of food, that alone should be given to others. New clothes should be worn by Brahmins only and when they become old and torn they should be given to others. A sudra is entitled to receive only these. (Chap.8.S.125)

    It is the duty of the king to order the sudra to serve the Brahmins. If the sudra refuses he should be punished and forced. (Chap.10.S.235).

    A Brahmin could extract work from the sudra paying or without paying. Brahma has created the sudra only to work for the Brahmins. (Chap.8.S.413).

    It is the main duty of the sudra to serve the other communities without jealousy. For his service he may get wages. (Chap.1.S.91).

    Exploitation: The wealth of the sudra who does not perform yagna is to be deemed as the property of the Asuras. So his wealth could be plundered.. (Chap.7.S.248).

    The wealth of the sudra could be forcibly plundered. No consent is needed. There need not be any hesitation. (Chap.11.S.13).

    Even if a sudra is in a position to earn, he should not earn anything more than what is needed to his family. If any sudra does so, he may go against the Brahmins and be tortured. (Chap.10.S.126).

    Punishment to sudras: If a sudra talks ill of a Brahmin his tongue should be cut off. (Chap.8.S.270).

    If a sudra pronounces the name of a Brahmin or talks of his caste or accuses him, an iron rod ten inches long should be heated red-hot and thrust into the mouth of the sudra. (Chap.8.S.271).

    If the sudra dictates the Brahmin to do a particular thing, boiled oil should be poured into the mouth and ears of the sudra. (Chap.8.S.272).

    If the sudra hits at Brahmin’s hair beard, legs, neck, penis, his hands must be cut off. (Chap.8.S.283).

    If the sudra sits in a seat along with a Brahmin, his hips should be scorched or he should be driven away from the town. (Chap.8.s.281).

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Even if a sudra is in a position to earn, he should not earn anything more than what is needed to his family. If any sudra does so, he may go against the Brahmins and be tortured. (Chap.10.S.126

    indian poverty is because of above though of brhmnst.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Replace ‘Shudra’ with ‘Kafir or non-arab muslims’ and ‘Brahmins’ with ‘Arab muslims’…

    It sound like toilet roll called Quran…

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    rajeev,these are extract from holy scripture can not be changed.u can see this in prctice in india in every walk of life.
    u better read brahmas rape of his daughters ,swarsati and padma,and continous sex with animals.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Why are you telling us story of Mohammad using hindu gods? I know Mohammad hated pigs because they found him filthy for sex.

  • http://- Rajeev

    The true identity of Ravi as inferred from his rant abusing India and Hinduism to DEFEND pakistan and Islam.
    Ravi = Muslim + Fanatic + pro-taliban + Pakistani + hindu hater + Liar + Worshipper of pedo Mohammad

    Basically a liar of first degree…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    You think I rant, you RUNT.

    I suggest you read again, I just posted them for your interest. Thise are reports written by other people.

    You make ridiculous statements without any support. That is a RANT and you are a RUNT.

    You’re so stupid that if you multiply your IQ by 20 the answer will be 2

    Just to repeat myself again. Two can play this name calling game. I PROMISE you, you continue calling me names and I will retaliate by calling you a HINDU FUNDO, a SAFFRON TERRORIST. A RSS FASCIST.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Two words “Tablibani muslim”

    You have been exposed…Case closed…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    RSS FASCIST, Case remains open. HINDU FUNDO. SAFFRON TERRORIST.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi,
    I’ll stop if you promise to stop pretending to be hindu. Why are you embarrassed to declare you are fanatic muslim? You will have my respect if you stop this charade…I have seen this muslim-pretending to be liberal hindu non-sense many times before.

    You abuse hindu gods, practices with the slightest provocation but I am yet to hear any word abusive of Islam or Pedo mohammad…Do it once to prove that you are secular in your abuse..

    If you can’t then you know what you are…a coward talibani..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    I cant do that. Because I am not pretending.

    NO DEAL.

    Let the name calling continue.

    I DO abuse Hindu Gods because YOU abuse Muslim God.

    Let the Name Caslling continue.

    You abuse Muslim God without any provocation.

    Let the Name Calling continue, you RUNT

    Rajeev Reply:

    You have been abusing Hinduism even before I said anything about Islam…You are a terrorist sympathisers pretending to be hindu..
    You troll.. Nothing better can be expected from Taquiya practictioners….

    Bloody Talibani..

    If you are Hindu, do you support mohammad humping 6 year old girl?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ravi,
    Unlike you I NEVER ever support any form of terrorism. In fact I want Hindu terrorists to be punished even more severely because terrorism is not expected of them. I can never tolerate hindus to stoop to level of muslims.

    It is your policy to support Islamic terror in the garb of hindu liberalism but no one is fooled here. Do you think Indians are so dumb that they can not see thru your little charade…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    There is absolutely no need for any one to fool you. You manage that yourself better than any one else can.

  • Binoy Hegde

    Shan

    Today’s NYT has two interesting news (1) about the pending deep cuts in UK welfare system (2) a 11/26 mumbai type attack planned by radical Muslims across UK/Europe.

    On the welfare reduction – will there be an increase in Muslim terrorism when welfare is cut to the millions of Pakistani and otehr Msulims who have migrated there ,a nd who are not doing any productive work. IS the govt even discussing that? What do es press say?

    On Farnec atrresting six Muslims for their connection to potential 11/26 type attacks in European cities – is there any UK PAkistani connection?

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan, people of pakistan&india are both peaceloving good people.all these problems are created by zoinist and brhmnsts.
    these cowboys are roaming all over world in search of wealth.after pauperizing latin maerica vietnam ,,philipines,soviet union,america itself ,now it is our chance.

    jo mara hai bakri ne bakre ke seengh,
    to marega bakra bhi bakre ke seengh

    jiske ghar sheeshe ke hot hain woh doorey pe pathar nahi phekte.when they are robbing their wealth destroying their economy killing their local population without mercy.
    why victim should not retaliate.
    in 26/11 hidu zoinists were also involve.international aim was to pressurize pakistan to attack taliban.local target was karkare ,who was bent upon showing ,the true face of criminal sacred brhmnst(abhnav bharat)to world.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Cutting off /limiting welfare will have an impact. There are many “firebrand” Muslim clerics who are not safe in their countries (Jordan, Egypt, Saudi) who have taken refuge in UK, criticizing UK, while receiving welfare! Just imagine what their reaction will be if they are not paid welfare. They cannot go back to their countries (because they will be arrested and killed – no jehadism there) ; so they are going to create problem in their host countries.. May be Shan can elaborate

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I think it is a bit far fetched to start seeking to enumerate the impact of welfare reduction on Islamic terrorism.

    Mt guess would be that if it was known that there was some one willing to give their life in a suicide attack, money will be the last of their worry.

    However, as you know that RSS collects a lot of money from Gujarati Indians settled in the UK, Do you think that RSS will financially suffer?

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    “As you know…” — No, i do not know, and I am not aware of that.

    However, if it is so, I do not think there will be any impact; because my understanding is Gujratis are pretty prosperous all over the world. I believe many Pakistanis in UK receive welfare, even second generations. Shan being there may be able to throw more light

    Ravi Reply:

    Lets see what kind of light SHAN can throw.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Gujratis are quite prosperous in US. Most of the brand name motel chains are owned by the,m , so much so, many Americans think Patel means motel owner in Hindi/”Indian”. They also own retail, trading etc..

    Ravi Reply:

    They are very enterprising no matter where they go. They were also prosperous when they were in Africa

  • shan

    Let there be light and there was light. I was planning to carry out an online Hind quarter amputation on Ashish till I am diverted with your request. As I have said I am a professed Rationalist and Humanist , and I am going to approach it in that manner. I have first hand experience , as I have worked up and down the country I am an information freak , thus follow each and every news item be it on TV or newspaper. Now this welfare cut . Apparently unless people take up job , they will be barred from claiming dole money for three years. This is a very very contentious issue. This is not targetted at islamic extremist in fact IT IS THE WHITE UNDERCLASS they want to target. It is true they need to do something as I have written before , that omar bakri has left his NINE children who are housed in a massive house with tax payers money. As shoebK rightly says , their home country had enough of this s h i t , appaerntly this Bakri has been convicted in absentia by the lebanese court for raising fund for Al Quaida, and he is on the run. Again these gujrati thing. The gujrati muslims are from a different planet. I am MESMERISED by thier cohesion , their network and their SELF HELP. I came to know a great deal about them from a nurse , whose husband had died prematurely and she had nobody to fall back upon. It is the ISMAYELI association helped her all the way and I cannot say how moved I was with that story. In contrast most Hindu Gujratis are S O B
    They play out gujrat riot socially. They are mostly shopkeepers , also lot of office workers AND THEY PUT A MASSIVE PREMIUM TO THEIR CHILDREN’S EDUCATION . However Dhiren Barot was a Hindu gujrati failed in life became an Islamic Terrorist was named by Al Quaida AL HINDI.
    Now what will happen to these terrorist , I cant see them taking up job in offices, they all have such a thick file compiled by MI5. BUT DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER JIHADI ISLAM. The mosques can look after them giving them jobs in whatever capacity. You will be amazed to know they were planning to build the BIGGEST MOSQUE IN EUROPE OR PERHAPS IN THE WORLD AND WAS PLANNING TO SPLASH 600 MILLION POUNDS near East Ham in East London. It would have been so huge that would be a mini city . The application has thankfully been turned down. Many of these terrorist live on their wives earning. the wives can work as nurses and teachers and this is how many live.My guess is all these terrorist will receive odd jobs from the mosque / islamic teaching centres. Guys are you aware UK govt spends 60 million pound which it gives away to mosque and other cultural association and youth centres to prevent radicalisation . They even have given Knighthood to a twerp from MUSLIM PARLIAMENT(yes you have read it correct , it functions within the auspices of Muslim Council of Britain.
    Actually I have come across so many sad stories. Here are some One pakistani lady was brought to my clinic from the psychiatry ward. Apparently she was complaining of pain in the legs , and they wanted to know if it was clots in the vein.Apparently she has been walking up and down in her room all through the night, basically had become insane. then I looked into her history , she had been physically abused all through her marriage , and now the husband had abandoned her. because she doesn’t know english , brought from pakistan , no relatives , she became insane at the fright of being abndoned.This when you feel like saying Quoran sucks , all religion sucks. Next another pakistani women , same story husband had left for some years , but she was coping in her own way , with the free accomodation and dole money. But as the social security people started pressurising her to take up job , she statred getting all sorts of symptomps , like headache (CT brain normal) , Stomach pains (gastroscopy normal ) .
    The worst are the SIKHS . The mother in laws are Daeen , and they resort to murder and physical violence with impunity. In my local paper (in uk small mohallas say a small town have their paper with local news). I live in Kent , a bangladeshi guy has murdered his wife because she not obidient and was too assertive. As you know muslims make 2% of the population yet are 7% of the prison population. Also as shoeb K says I think ordinary pakistanis are also getting fed up. I was in the Doctors common room . There were two pakistani doctors speaking to each other, they didn’t appreciate I may be kuffer but I can understand like many Indians urdu with ease. I heard them saying Humara mulk to khatam hotey ja raha hai, the flady replied that yeh darshartgardi ke liye to humara nikah ke jagah badalney purh raha hai.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan

    Many UK muslims (according to US papers) are dependent on state funding/welfare; many of them of Pak and Bangla background. Many of the UK terrorists were educated Muslims (with may be some sprinkling of poor uneducate dones). So, will many uneduicated Muslims be attarcted to terrorism through these mosques (like that guy with metal hand arousing these poor guys for jehad)– does the govt think it will happen? If so, what precautions are they doing?

    Bangla deshis so far do not have a “terorist” background. Whereas the Pakistani connections are clear – whether poor, rich, educated, illiterate. The guy who cut the throat of Daniel pearl was an oxford educated Pakistani Muslim, Quershi.

    Is there any public discussion there that a cut in welfare may reignite terrorism?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I am of the view that UK Muslims are more motivated by what the British Goverment is doing in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan and Pakistan than any elements of Wefare State.

    I am also of the view that the British Muslims have seen through these fire brand Imams and are no longer as motivated to carry out atrocities as they were upto a few years ago.

    The Wahabi influence levelled a few years ago and is now in decline. It has some way to go yet.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Wahabi (if that is the terrorist gene) – I do not think it is on decline. They exploded in Krachi just yesterday. Many were arrested in frnce yesterday (per NYT) because they were planning a 11/26 type attack in major European cities. The parcel bomb that was supposed to explode on Eastern US last week — Well, if these are the signs of slowdown, what will be the signs of no slow down?

    pakistan is the epicenter; the military and ISI are in collusion, the civilian govt may not be — with all his flaws and faults, I believe neither Zardarinor Gilani is behind any of these. But then, they do not have the real power either. I cnnot imagine whether the PM and President can continue liek in Pakistan with daily killings of 60-80-100-200 people by terrorists. .

    Ravi Reply:

    The overall influence of Wahabi and Salafi thinking is not waining but the UK Muslim youth are less radicalised than they were only a year or do ago. Several mosques that were under the control of Al Mahajroun are no longer so. This includes major mosques in Birmingham, the East End of London as well as the Finsbury Park Mosque.

    The Taliban issue is more complex than just the Salafi/Wahabi influence thaugh that is a part of it. The Karachi bomb was on a Police station, which is seen by the Taliban as a part of the Pkaistan Establishment.

    Pakistan is playing a double game as far as the Afghan Taliban are concerend, particularly the Haqani Group that ISI set up and maintain as their agents in Afghanistan.

    There is more to it than just religious angel.

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, the places that you mention has massive pakistani population , mirpuris are mainly in luton , birmingham some definitely in lancashire. A word or two about the MIRPURI KASHMIRIS. They had to leave their home because THE DAM built to divert water for punjabi farmers, in the process SUBMERGING mirpur, it doesn’t exist.

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    As far as poulation cetres of MIrpuris and Mirpur itslef you are 100% wrong.

    Check this out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirpur,_Azad_Kashmir

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi is it really,
    lthough it is widely believed that the principal reason for this outflow was the construction of the Mangla Dam, this is only partially true. Whilst the construction of the dam undoubtedly reinforced the scale of the outflow, since the waters of the lake swamped most of the best land in the District,
    irpur city is situated at 459 meters above sea-level and is linked with the main Peshawar-Lahore Grand Trunk road at Dina Tehsil. It is the headquarters of Mirpur District, which comprises three sub-divisions, Mirpur, Chaksawari & Dadyal [1]. The building of the new city in late sixties paved the way for New Mirpur situated on the banks of Mangla lake. In fact the remains of the old city (old Mirpur) are underneath the waters of the Mangla Lake, during colder months the water level decreases such that you can see the tops of minarets from the first mosques, and also the remnants of a Sikh gurdwara as well as a Hindu mandir possibly dedicated to the “mangla mata” (mangla mother goddess).

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    Yes it really is RAVI.

    So you are talking about Old Mirpur (of which I was not aware) and I am talking about Mirpur (the new one).

    So your Mirpur does not exist and the one I meant does. A lot of UK’s Muslim population comes from this Mirpur. They were initially recruited to work in UK’s Cotton as well as wollen mills. Hence most (not all) of the towns I listed are from Lancashire and Yorkshire.

    The REAL Ravi

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde and Ravi, MI5 is following 2000(yes you have read it correct ) plots hatched in this country. As i have written , I do not see any prospect of them landing a job , will poverty push them in the arms of the jiahdi recruiters , that is a genuine possibility , an islamic version of maoist tribal insurgency. My personal feeling is hard cores will live on their wives , parents living , new generation , the radicalisation is mainly in University. The very poor in Blackburn , they recoil into hardline islam , and their jihad is to practice islam as it was practiced in Arabia. They may not be actively planning a suicide mission. Lot may turn to drugs and pimping WHICH INCREDIBLE IT MAY SOUND DO.The sikh example was brought to show that it may be a cultural thing they are all punjabis.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    I would have thought that in places like

    Blackburn, Oldham, Manchester, Bradford, Dewsbury, Batley, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Wakefield, Halifax, Rochdale, Huddersfield, Burnley, Keighley, Preston, Doncaster, Slough, High Wycombe, etc. most Muslims hail from Mirpur and other parts of POK, they are not Punjabi’s.

    They do speak Punjabi because in Pakistan Punjabi is a dominant culture.

    MI6 thought that Iraq had weapons of Mass Destruction and it turned out that they did not.

    2000 active plots – depends upon what you mean by a plot, a lot of chatter in the street does not become a plot. I do not mean that plots are not being hatched, I mean that these are unlikely to materialise in anything substantial because I think people in the UK are seeing through this hard line rhetoric.

    We have a long way to go before we can feel safe, but the movement is in the right direction.

    ram autar Reply:

    mr binoy there is no terrorist in bangladesh because there is no america.in mid of tsunami
    indonesian goverment requested american to leave his country.dont forget in 1947 all communists were oxford educated.
    deniel pearl was zoinist spy.why so much sympathy for him.he got what he gave to others.
    he should not have come to this area.in tora bora bombing thousands of innocents were murdered,u should have equal sympathy for those as well.
    ouble standaeds are not good.neighbours cannot be change, we have to develop relationship with them.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    SHAN

    I am not sure if this was worth the wait.

    Once again you fail to state what your actual point is, the reader is left to read long anecdotes and then guess what the point is that is being made.

    That aside, I did not find much that is disagreeable in what you say.

    But did you answer the question which Shoeb K asked.

    The question was, will the changes in the welfare payments that will be made to the un-employed – a lot of Muslims in UK are supposedly un-employed – negatively impact the Jehadi cause. A subsidiary question he asked you personally, is if as a result of forthcoming financial disadvantages, will these Jehadi elements who criticise the West in general and the English in particular be thrown out of the country – possibly because they are spitting in the plate from which they are eating.

    If my understanding of the question is correct – I am prepared to accept that it may not be – then I am not sure that you fully answered it.

    My personal view is that the Jihadi cause is mainly funded by the Middle Eastern Muslims and dictatorial regimes. The contribution made by European Muslims is comparatively small and of little material consequence.

    As far as the Muslim Fundos such as Omar Bakri, Anjum Choudhury, and Abu Qatada, they are allowed to function because Britain is a mature democracy where freedom of expression is a virtue not available for sacrifice at altar of Political Islam.

    Oh by the way can you once again explain the relevance of a Sikh daen in the context of the question and your answer.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    My personal view is that the Jihadi cause is mainly funded by the Middle Eastern Muslims and

    mr ravi middle east muslim rulers support israel not jehadi.now they go to israel in holidays
    which runs 5 porn channel 24 hrs a day 30 days a month 365 days a year day and night..receives 1 millions sex tourists per month.shan i am sure u will go after knowing this.
    last year they staged a show in italy for 20000 dollars/person in which 3year old russian girl stolen from o rphanage was fkd to death in front of viewrs.
    now israel is sex capital of world.tourists are taken to look at the beauty of their gay soldiers.

    rulers are with them not with jihadis.so called jehadis are fighting for their land and honour not for religion,which may be uniting force.they are doing since centuries.alexander could not control them.britishers could not defeat them.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    shan, a bangladeshi guy has murdered his wife because she not obidient and was too assertive. As you know

    shan what is knew in this ,hindus are doing this muslims are doing this.in and around delhi thousand such cases happens every year.99%of them are hindus.now women are killing their husbands.bengali bhadrlok women are assertive and independent.their husbands are like their pet dogs.high caste muslim ladies too are assertive.the beating of women is more rampant among hindus
    as compare to muslims.among muslims it is limited to neo-converts or low caste /poors.among hindus it is in every class.
    in delhi calcutta lahore or london women of rich families have extra-marital affair.hence dont blame man.
    dont call bangladeshi (muslims)call a man,as it occurs everywhere.

    JEHADIS ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOBODY CAN CRUSH OR DEFEAT THEM TILL AMERICANS ARE THERE.IRAQ IS GOOD EXAMPLE.WHEN AMERICA LEAVE THE AREA
    THINGS WILL BE CALM.we are victim of geo-political ambitions of world powers.somalia is best example.a peaceful country with peace loving people are pushed to piracy.

    jahan howey santan ka war
    hua wahan ka bhantadhar.

    shan dont that there are v500000 women get themselves prostituted in sonagachi calcutta to get 2 meals a days.they are not bangladeshi.they are ur sisters they are my sisters.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    Another shining example of Secular India:

    http://www.tehelka.com/story_main47.asp?filename=Ne201110This_survey.asp

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, This is stale news, I think it was in NDTV few days ago.This does reinforces INDIA IS INDEED SECULAR . The survey was done for an AMERICAN INSTITUTION BY AN AMERICAN COMPANY.How is India’s secularism compromised.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    I saw this and I was disturbed by it.

    However your comment that this was a shining example of Secular India disturbed me even more.

    I am not sure of what you meant.

    Was this survey commissioned by a GOI department?

    The agency which was conducting the survey is a professional market research agency, it will ask and measure what ever the commissioner of survey wants to measure.

    If you are concerned of Political motives then surely they are the survey commissioner motives and not INDIA’s.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @Ravi,

    Let me post what Gopi wrote below:

    “Now, I wish that Bobby’s allegation was true! I wish an unbiased, scientific survey of Muslims is done.”

    Gopi is not alone in displaying this sort of mentality. He is representing the view of a big chink of people even in Indian politics. India is secular only in the words of the constitution, not in practice…. and people like Gopi, are shining proof of that. I think the situation in India is not too far from what existed in Nazi Germany wrt the Jews.

    There was a big hue and cry by the way in Kerala about something called “Love Jihad”. An unbiased foreigner would have thought India was a mental assylum, had he heard of the concept that scared the Hindutva supporters…but unfortunately its not a Joke…. Real nuts exist, who actually made this into a issue….

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    BY the way in many states conversion is a criminal offence. The right to convert anyone into any religion surely should be a fundamental right in any “secular” country. Not in India.

    Here we have a very different take to what secularism means. In any country, which calls itself secular, the concept means the complete separation of state and religion.

    Here of course our beloved Advani Ji has a different take on it. According to him- secularism means “respect for all religions”… This is what apparently it means in “hindu tradition” … and since WE are a hindu country , so “secularism” has a different meaning for us. Even if the “meaning” is really nonsensical.

    Ravi Reply:

    Bobby

    Now I undersatnd the context and I agree with you.

    Whilst India has a secular constitution and in practice it is far from this ideal.

    However, it is still tons better than the alternative of a HINDU INDIA as postulated by RSS/BJP, etc.

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby my mate , you are treading into hot water. How about me trying to convert thousand muslim widows from afganistan after bringing them to India and getting them married to hindus. given the abysmal male female ratio should be win win situation for both. Less airy fairy fancy stuff more ground reality.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @Shan,

    Would you agree that any citizen has the right to practice, preach and propagate ones religious views, or for that matter secular views, as long as one does not incite violence.

    These conversion laws exist in these states precisely because they want to check the conversion of lower caste hindus and adivasis to Islam and christianity.

    Now I consider people who try to “save souls”, jerks. However the state can not and should not be in the business of checking such activities.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    why cannot the govtinstitute conversion laws? (looks like that in India it is left to states). How does that inhibit secularism?

    If you believe in individual’s right to choose whatever and whereevr, why do u weep about farmers suicide .. They borrowed, they bought the seeds instead of keeping seeds as a prt of the age old practice.. Why should state interfere?

    What areas you want the state to interfere and what areas to be left to the individual?

    Is there an example constitution? Is it US or some otehr country where your ideal is practised?

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby , I fully support an individual’s right to do whatever he chooses to do , but I do not support PROSELYTISATION , even if it takes place , it should be a FAIR AND EVEN FIELD, not the kind you are cryptically suggesting. Poor lower caste hindus converting to islam is okay, poor muslim lower caste(Ashraf) converting to hinduism is RSS inspired oppression.

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Binoy,

    You do not get it… The Farmers are committing suicide, BECAUSE the state has “interfered” in favour of the Corporates. Both here in India and in the US, where the US government gives unbelievable subsidies to the Rich corporate farm houses.

    There is this attitude that what the Government does for the poor is subsidy, and what they do for the Corporate is “incentives”. The government subsidy to the rich far far exceeds what is given to the poor.

    Its a blatant lie to say that the government gives interferes in favor of the poor. Its almost always for the rich, except that in such cases its never called so….

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan,

    These states in India have laws which state that every time some one wants to change ones religion, he or she has to first report to a magistrate or some official that he or she is doing so.

    Do you think this makes sense?

  • Bobby

    Injustice and corporate “trickle up” of wealth.. Indian style

    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F0DCA4B1BDEF344

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    are u doing anything bobby to correct this? Or are you depending on somebody else?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, in one word PROFOUND. One knew about it anyway. Perhaps the reactionaries like Ashish should take a look at it. Only caveat is that it was made for a FIINNISH AND FRENCH TV.So there is a tendency to focus on the effect than to address the CAUSE. Farmer’s suicide occurs all over the world , in fact I would say why this should take precedence WHEN THERE ARE LOTS OF STARVATION DEATHS.As your background is science (unlike one salesman) , you know in science you approach any problem by collecting data and then analysing the data looking for a pattern. I didn’t escape my notice these farmers were SC/ST. Not the fair skinned Dixit, Deshmukh or whatever. The fundamental problem is this laggardness in thinking. THIS IS WHERE MODERN INDUSTRIAL FARMING comes in. Ignorant Buffoon like ashish wont appreciate this , but beleive me agriculture is now like a factory ouput , every thing can be controlled, even i have seen and read they pump carbon di oxide into an enclosed green house to increase the yield. Not very far from where I live , there is company that produces all sorts of vegetables, it is called THANET EARTH, you google it.Here computer controlled pipes DRIP feed water to an EXACT AMOUNT with exact micronutrients . Enormous amount of water is saved , no rotting of roots due to water stagnation GUARANTEED YIELD. Even if you dont go that far , just CO OPERATISATION and MECHANISATION (read my previous post, just scroll upwards)will transform the lives of these people. Also I just cannot understand why there is no INSURANCE to cover for losses.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I bet, tonnes of money must have been allocated either to prevent or to take care of the aftermath; and all that money must have been stolen by the bureaucracy (IAS/Taluk/District etc).. Does anybody have a statistic?

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    rajeev Honesty – He did not promote any of his sons in congress unlike Nehru-gandhis. When he died he has approx. Rs.250 in his account. He was shining example of honesty..No doubt about

    mr rajeev mahatama was very cruel with his wife.she was forced to clean toilets if any guest come.
    his sons used to hate him one of them converted to islam,just to hurt him.they knew his hypocracy.
    firoze ghandhi was firoz khan.people with ghandhi surname donot exist in allahabad.
    before britishers advised him to become mahatama he was drinker meat eater and smoker.
    all his life he had signed cheque book from ghanshyam das birla.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Some body above suggested that we read a paper submitted by Prof Martha C. Nussbaum. I did and I found that it enhanced my knowledge as well as organised some vague ideas I held into a coherent single thought. After reading the article I felt enlightened.

    Gopi Thomas, aslo mentioned in one of his posts that Pakistan is teaching in its schools a false History. I agree with him and there is plenty of evidence to support his assertion.

    However, what makes us think that all the History that is taught in Indian schools is completely accurate and universally accepted.

    It is a sad fact that emerging nations (and post colonial Modern India is one such nation) employ a distorted version of their history to forge a new sense of identity, and in that respect India is no different.

    I have taken an extract from her lecture and for your convienience re-produced it here. Everything below this line is from Prof Martha C Nussabaum’s lecture.

    ___________________________________________________________
    The Hindu right’s view of history is a simple one. Like all simple tales, it is largely a fabrication, but its importance to the movement may be seen by the intensity with which its members go after scholars who present a more nuanced and accurate view: not only by strident public critiques, but by organized campaigns of threat and intimidation, culminating in some cases in physical violence. Here’s how the story goes:

    Once there lived in the Indus Valley a pure and peaceful people. They spoke Vedic Sanskrit, the language of the gods. They had a rich material culture and a peaceful temper, although they were prepared for war. Their realm was vast, stretching from Kashmir in the north to Sri Lanka (Ceylon) in the south. And yet they saw unity and solidarity in their shared ways of life, calling themselves Hindus and their land Hindustan. No class divisions troubled them, nor was caste a painful source of division. The condition of women was excellent.

    That peaceful condition went on for centuries. Although from time to time marauders made their appearance (for example, the Huns), they were quickly dispatched. Suddenly, rudely, unprovoked, invading Muslims put an end to all that. Early in the 16th century, Babur, founder of the Mughal dynasty, swept through the north of Hindustan, vandalizing Hindu temples, stealing sacred objects, building mosques over temple ruins. For 200 years, Hindus lived at the mercy of the marauders, until the Maharashtrian hero Shivaji rose up and restored the Hindu kingdom. His success was all too brief. Soon the British took up where Babur and his progeny had left off, imposing tyranny upon Hindustan and her people. They can recover their pride only by concerted aggression against alien elements in their midst.

    What is wrong with that picture? Well, for a start, the people who spoke Sanskrit almost certainly migrated into the subcontinent from outside, finding indigenous people there, probably the ancestors of the Dravidian peoples of South India. Hindus are no more indigenous than Muslims. Second, it leaves out problems in Hindu society: the problem of caste, which both Gandhi and Tagore took to be the central social issue facing India, and obvious problems of class and gender inequality. (When historians point to evidence of these things, the Hindu right calls them Marxists, as if that, by itself, invalidated their arguments.) Third, it leaves out the tremendous regional differences within Hinduism, and hostilities and aggressions sometimes associated with those. Fourth, it omits the evidence of peaceful coexistence and syncretism between Hindus and Muslims for a good deal of the Mughal Empire, including the well-known policies of religious pluralism of Akbar (1542-1605).

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Full article can be found here.

    http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/nussbaum051807

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    Ravi,
    this is such a sad caricature of the so called Hindu- right wing version of history.
    There is nothing to be enlightened by this.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Bobby et al

    The survey was taken by a subsidiary of Nielsen company for an American outfit. It made big issue in Kerala; these guys were doing this survey in Muslim majority areas. There is a Kerala govt investigation going on, and as the article said M Ramachandran, Dy Home Minister (the guy never is in Delhi, always playing politics in kerala) has asked the central bureaucracy also to investigate. I think they were also surveying Muslim majority areas in Delhi.

    Now, I wish that Bobby’s allegation was true! I wish an unbiased, scientific survey of Muslims is done. So, once and for all, the cloud can be removed (one way or other). There is no BJP or Sangh to speak off in Kerala. Muslims are the richest after Christians. Muslims are much better educated than in other parts of India. Yet there were many terrorism related arrests here; almost hundred in my own district. Now do not tell me it is police excess and targeting. It is not. Manyof them had been to Pakistan for training (as evidenced by the passport) ; some of them to Kashmir. A few of their friends were killed in Kashmir (not because they were in the army). There are five more “unidentified” bodies in Kashmir, all of them assumed to be Keralites (and some mothers have started “claiming” (acrtually disclaiming) them. T Nazir, who was extradicted from Bangla Desh is supposed to be the LeT leader for South India. Apparently, there is a Hedley connection too.
    PDP and PFI, offshoots of the banned SIMI, are thriving in some parts of Kerala, killing more moderate Muslims than Hindus. Many PFI/SDPI activists have been arrested in connection with the incident of chopping off the Christian professor’s hand. There was a dentist, lawyer, and architect in this group. One of the items that came up in the investigation was the presence of three “taliban” courts in Kerala that dispensed Sharia justice; chopping off the hand was the decision taken by one of these courts.

    The Marxist chief minister, (and not a brahmin or upper caste), Achuthanandan, stated in the assembly that the documents siezed in connection with the investigation indicated the group’s plans to make Kerala a Muslim majority state in 25 years. They had specific plans including the “funded” love jehad. The source of money is being investigted.

    Keralites, including “normal” (?) Muslims are troubled by these developments. If Kerala Muslims have problems and they have to esort to violence (and get trained in Pakistan), the rest of India beware. And be on the alert.

    I , as well as many others, a majority I assume, would have a level of peace of mind from a survey like what these Nielsen group was trying to do — Is it 2% or 20%? Right now, in the absence of that and in the presence of Nazir and other arrests including Abdus Samad Madani and his wife, most of the Keralites think it is 20% while it may be only 2%.

    BJP does not hold even a single assembly seat; neither a panchayat nor a municipality. Muslim League (Railway dy Mnister E Ahmed’s party, the moderate wing of Msulims) has 27 assembly seats and several Municipality and Panchayat chairmenships.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    Thanks for this.

    So please confirm what you are saying here.

    Are you saying that a proportion (how big that proportion is , is what you would like to know) of well educated, well healed Kerala Muslims have become radicalised and pose terrorist threat to India.

    This is purley in the name of Isalm and is not a reaction to BJP/RSS, etc. But purely because these Kerala Muslims have a greater loyalty to Radical Islam and not to India.

    Is that waht you are saying.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    some muslims might have gone to radicals because of babri mosque or gujrat mascares.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I am saying that a wall has come in a society where there was no wall. A muslim neighbour now is viewed with suspicion; based on all the recent revelations and in Kerala, Hindus, Msulims, christians all have their homes next to each other – there are no Muslim atreas or Christian areas.

    A scientific survey will remove (or reinforce) the suspicion. If a small percent, reasonable people will conclude it is no different from the potential small percent in any community. And becomes a non-issue.

    If it is a big number, it points to many trajectories – that BJP/RSS is not the main driver of the Islamic terrorism in India , poverty is not an issue, or lack of education; there is some reactionary force within Islam against themselves (many “progressive” Muslims ahbve been killed by Muslims here in the recent past) etc etc

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Gopi, You may have a point , DENIAL will not lead to the solution, the very reaon islamic world in such a morass, If there can be a survey , and there has been one as to how indian women participate in sex with their husband in great detail , and i was gobsmacked to learn that the bahus(must be urban) are catching up fast with the west.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    Could you re-iterate this.

    Who is in denial ?

    Who are Indian women participating in sex with?

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    ravi kamasutra is the only gift world have from them.immorality is not a sin.draupadi had 5 husbands.radha was neighbours wife.brahama had 4 heads to trace his daughter swarsati.who was hiding from his father who raped her for 125 years.

    ram autar Reply:

    SIMI, are thriving in some parts of Kerala, killing more moderate Muslims than Hindus. Many PFI/

    gopi are u sure any such organization really exist.

    to make Kerala a Muslim majority state in 25 years. They had specific plans including the “funded” love jehad.
    this is final aim of hindutva and christian missionary.

    christians in kerala have joined hands with hindutva forces.so all these news are repeated again and again.one here one there hardly make any difference.europe knows the cunningnes and brutality of catholic church.
    hand chopping was legally wrong burnt that stupid man was asking for this.muslims pays full respect to jesus christ church should reciprocate.
    regarding love jihad,
    pyar woh aag hai jo lagai na lage,
    bujhai na bujhe.
    this jihad is being done by hindutva organizations,i have read about this,but grass eating monkies cannot replace
    beef eating warriors.bad luck.u can win their bodies through money but taking heart is another thing.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    bjp is a mentality it is thought it is not a organiztion.brhmnst are everywhere.u have not to be member of bjp to be brhmnst.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ram

    Kerala never had a prominent “brahmin” class, the namboodiris (kerala brahmins) are very poor , relatively less educated (because of the difficulty to get admission based on the mjority of colege seats reserved for “backward” classes).

    So, now you are saying that whether there are Barhmins or not, whether there is BJP or not, whether Achuthanandan is a backward caste or not, the air there is “brahminic” and that makes Muslims crazy?

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ ram autar

    you may claim to be an Avatar of Ram , but you actually seem to be the Avtaar of Allah the Dalla. your spelling of ‘autar’ shows that you are a Muslim

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Well, somebody had said he is a Pakistani — Ashar who writes in Vinod Sharma’s blog.

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Gopi,

    Stop spreading lies. In Kerala most resources are in the hands of the upper caste HIndus, or converts from the upper castes. You have to first understand what caste system means. Its a fact that most of the resources and power in India is in the hands of Upper caste people- Be it Hindus/Muslims or Christians.

    lower caste people, dalits and those who converted from them constitute the major component of the poor in India.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    In Kerala,

    the richest is Christians, then Muslims, and then Hindus. Among Hindus, the richest is Ehavas /Thiyyas(a backward caste).

    the most educated is Christians, then Hindus, (amoing Hindus the most educated being Nairs (a “forward” caste” followed by Ezhavas) then Muslims.

    The notion of Dalits (in large number) just does not exist here .

    BJP does not have a single assembly seat. Neither panchayat or municipality presidency

    Ravi Reply:

    Once again we have stooped to calling people names and casting doubt on their nationality and or religion.

    Please stick to countering the points being made rather than resort to cheap personal attacks.

    A point is a point and its validity is not dependant upon the religion and/or nationality of the author.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Gopi

    Dakshin Canara is also becoming a radical Muslim place…mainly due to the money pouring in from Kasargod (and I am told money flows there from Saudi Arabia to Muslim mafias)

    Mangalore is under curfew all the time ..

    L Mirza Reply:

    Saudi Arabia has done untold damage to Muslims, Islam, and the world.

    ram autar Reply:

    mr shan and mr hegde,the following speech of lord will explainwhy they they oppose madarssa &ancient vedic system of education.will also tell why toys like niraj choudhary and vs naipul were created,promoted and given so much importance by media,

    LORD MACAULAY’S ADDRESS TO BRITISH PARLIAMENT 2nd FEBRUARY 1835

    “I have travelled across length and Breadth of India and I have not seen aperson who is a beggar who is a thief. such a wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient educational system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and english is good and greater than their own way,they will lose their selfesteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them , a truly domintaed nation.

    S Singh Reply:

    Bobby

    Secularists like you must be upset that the survey was not done by GOI! It again shows, how far secularists are from common man’s ideas and views, just like in the Ayodhya verdict. .

    The Muslim housewife suspected foul play, she reported to the police, police (seems like a Christian officer) investigated.. We should rejoice — that the woman knew her rights, the system of police worked etc..

    Now coming to the last four questions in Tehelka article — what is wrong with asking that? Obviously, those factors are often mentioned as the reason for Muslim extremism and attack on countries, peoples, and institutions. Why cannot these questions be asked to Indian Muslims ?

    Will they attack an army that is attacking Musliims? I think it is a legitimate question – based on what Gopi is saying , Muslims have gone from Kanyakumari to Kashmir to fight Indian army.

    Apart from any of these – where /whyis it illegal to ask questions and conduct surveys? How come people who are concerned about rights dont utter anything about this right? Why cannot a private company (or for that matter the government) do these reserarch so problems can be predicted and preventeda? UK has cameras everywhere (may be even in the house); US does surveys lefta nd right – both by govt and by organizations like Gallup and Pew.

    Why the noise level here?

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    Would you think it appropriate that the very same questions should also be asked of people of other religions, including Hindus?

    Or are you suggesting that one can take a Hindu’s loyalty to India for granted whilst a Muslim’s must be doubted.

    If you do hold that view then god bless you.

    I quote a learned Professor Martha Nussabaum “ Muslims in India are by and large a hard-working impoverished minority, who have lived alongside Hindus for centuries and who today participate in democratic self-governance at all levels. Arecent study has shown that they support education for girls even more strongly than the Hindu population. Islamic fundamentalism has no grip in India, despite discrimination and even persecution, and the inclusion of Muslims in prominent positions in the new government is a hopeful sign for the future”

    From page 5 of The Clash Within.

    The quoted study is from “unequal Citizens: Muslim Women in India (Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2004) by Zoya Hassan and Ritu Menon.

    ram autar Reply:

    If Kerala Muslims have problems and they have to esort to violence (and get trained in Pakistan), the rest of India beware. And be on the alert.

    THIS BULLSHIT MUSLIMS ARE CREATOR OF WEALTH.CREATOR OF WEALTH WANTS PEACE NOT WAR.war and hate mongering of brhmnst have no taker.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    L Mirza Reply:

    November 13th, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Saudi Arabia has done untold damage to Muslims, Islam, and the world.

    IN WHAT WAY.SAUDI ARABIA IS PROVIDING JOBS TO MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF INDIANS AND PEOPLE OF OTHER COUNTRIES AT GOOD SALARY.ANYBODY GO THERE PRAY TO STAY THERE.

    MIRZA` PLS EXPLAIN.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Allah ‘autar’

    shut the f*ck up Muslim sh*itmarc

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    give me reason,not abuses.what way saudia harmed us.BY PAYING HIGHER WAGES SUDIA IS HELPING INDIANS.THERE ARE 2MILLION INDIANS WORKING THERE.

    BANIA DONT EAT MUTTON BUT SUCKS EVERY DROP OF OUR BLOOD.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Will they attack an army that is attacking Musliims? I think it is a legitimate question – based on what Gopi is saying , Muslims have gone from Kanyakumari to Kashmir to fight Indian army

    MR SINGH MUSLIMS HAVE FULL FAITH IN INDIAN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS.TERRORIST MIGHT HAVE GET SOME RECRUITS HERE AND THERE.
    but those who perpetuated 600 communal roits,gujrat carnages,demolition of babri mosque are
    responsible for this.
    especially when nobody is punished.in 1969 roit i have seen police holding one muslim woman ,
    her house was burnt by rss warriors,his 3 infants were thrown into fire in her presence by deshbhakts.she lost her voice.indirajee brought her to delhi.but nobody was punished.
    in this situation there is no mass response is surprising.

    dayanayek ,a police inspector earn 3000 crores by killing 120 muslims creating terror in muslim areas.rss will start game by planting bombs media will blame some lashkar police catching the innocents declaring them as terrorists.those who can pay are deshbhakt who cannot are terrorist.last 10 years these officers are competing in atrocities.rss was planting the bombs muslims were looted and punished.

    hum aah bhi bharte hain to ho jate hain badnam.
    woh qatl bhi karte hain to churcha nahin hota.

    hell which brhmnst have created , must have far bigger response.but still it is limited to few numbers is surprising.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Allah ‘autar’

    Muslims have committed so many and various kinds of atrocities on Hindus that the Godhra riots do not settle the score. by the way you guys deserve it

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    godhra was commited by modi agents to provide reason for roit which was preplanned.there was no muslim in bogey.goverment have failed to publish list of victim so far.this was reserved bogey all passengers are alive.who died ask from goverment.
    mazar of wali gujrati,a sufi saint revered by hindus and muslims ,was demolished in minutes of that fire.municipality built road there in 3 days.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    get your f*cking brain examined. what i meant is that Muslims have committed enough atrocities against Hindus in the past that this riot doesnt settle the score.

    by the way , you have yourself proved that you are a typical Muslim f*cktard. 58 Hindu passengers have died as a result of the fire that was set to the bogey by a Muslim mob

    ram autar Reply:

    passengers have died as a result of the fire that was set to the bogey by a Muslim mob

    ANY PROOF.

    Ravi Reply:

    Two indipendant commissions who examined forensic evidence have reported that the fire was almost certainly started accidently. Probably by a stove being used for cooking.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram autar.

    That is the widely held belief. It was a RSS experiment. Mr Togadia himself said so.

    Ravi Reply:

    Paritosh

    So you are into score settling.

    So crimes perpitrated by previous generations are avenged on the innocent of current generations.

    RSS is a violent Hindu Fundo organisation. It is much more of a threat to India than Muslims are.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Ravi

    you better shut ya f*cking arse. the fundamentalism you see in other religious communities is an answer to Islamic fundamentlism

    Ravi Reply:

    Paritosh

    You asked for this.

    I think you are a congenitally deformed dwarf who has been so emasculated that the only way you are able to relate to other people is through abuse.

    I’d love to give you the thorough beating you so rightfully deserve, but I also know what a pain it is to try to wash off your stinking smell from my hands.

    You are a Hindu Fundo, a Safforn Terrorist, a RSS reject.

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ Allah ‘autar’

    Saudis paying “higher wages” to Indians. now its totally confirmed that you are high on marijuana you arsehole.

    a few thousand Indians working in Saudi Arabia doesnt make a great difference coz they are treated like second class citizens and payed lower than deserved wages.

    and what the f*ck is this BANIYA. is he the same hotshot who forcibly f*cked your wh*re mom and brought you to this world ?? hell yeah!!!

    Islam has sucked the life of human civilization. why not talk on that??
    by the way , i do eat mutton.

    you are a pakee f*ckedsock. totally confirmed

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Paritosh

    Let me make a suggestion. Don’t involves mum’s into this.

    You know why, every one has a mum, if you abuse mine, then all I will do is abuse yours.

    That may even things out a bit but it would make very bad reading.

    The problem with abuse is, that it only invites abuse back.

    So the choice is yours, you abuse and I P R O M I S E, I will repay in kind with appropriate amount of interest and escalation.

    Zia and/or moderator…..this is completely out of order and must be stopped. Freedom of speech does not include freedom to mindlessly abuse.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    RAVI LEAVE THIS FARTY BANIA.ONE BANIA WAS VERY ANGRY WITH ME LIKE HIM.
    HE ALSO BROUGHT GUN TO KILL.HE WAS GOING TO FIRE AT ME.I IMMEDIATELY OFFERED 150000 FOR GUN.HE GAVE ME GUN TOOK MONEY.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    Islam has sucked the life of human civilization. why not talk on that??

    base of european civilization is islamic civilization.I AM NOT RESPOSIBLE FOR UR`IGNORANCE.

    a few thousand Indians working in Saudi Arabia doesnt make a great difference coz they are treated

    no is about 3 millions.

    and what the f*ck is this BANIYA.

    baniya fk his father as per soordas

    is he the same hotshot who forcibly f*cked your wh*re mom and brought you to this world ?? hell yeah

    baniya offer his and mom for money sometime even his ***.

    i do eat mutton.
    it means u are wise man.

    you are a pakee f*ckedsock. totally confirmed

    i am pure indian and past my youth with farty bania girls.

    India suffers eternally in the hands of the troika of Marvadi’s, Gujju’s & Brahmins. The Big three have made India suffocate & suffer by their unethical ways throughout the history. Put together they add up to 8 to 9% of Indian population and hold more than 90% of Indian money, power and other resources. Socially, Educationally, Economically they have always been very powerful & superior to the remaining masses of India. Indian Economy is in the hands of Marvadi’s. They hold most of the Indian businesses. It is surprising to see only one community flourish in businesses, generations after generations. These people do not eat mutton but suck the blood out of people. They have mistaken cheating & manipulations for entrepreneurship. Non-marvadi Indian can succeed in business outside India but not in India. Sabeer Bhatia and others in Silicon Valley are great examples. Non-marvadi Indian can succeed in Indian Business with Non-Indian clientele. Infosys & other big & small software companies are live examples. However, a Non-Marvadi cannot succeed in Indian business Environment whereas a Marvadi can easily succeed with their competence in manipulatuions and machinations without really having the real competence, technical or otherwise. Right from adultering milk & other food items in a grocery shop, duping customers with non-standard items for branded items, to the big industrialists evading taxes, a Marwadi is involved everywhere in cheating this Nation.
    They have mastered the trick of greasing palms of ever greedy politicians & bureaucrats to ensure the unethical & illegal businesses & methods are ignored by the people in Power. Business are shared within their community irrespective of cost and quality to ensure firm hold on business & economy with the Marvadi’s. Every attempt is made to kill the entrepreneurship from other communities. Businesses given to Non-marvadi’s will suffer Non-payment OR late payments to the point of closure of the others business. Employees in Marvadi firms are treated like slaves. The most qualified, intelligent and effective of the Employees have to work under low educated marvadi, appointed by the owner, as their boss, who keeps on learning from them and bossing over them at the same time, without giving exposure, value addition, or avenue to move ahead in the company. Once a person enters a Marvadi company, his learning stops and has to remain clerk forever, even if he is a Professional. With no addition in knowledge, he cannot venture outside the company and has to live a life of stagnated pond. Marvadi’s are destroying the intelligent and educated middle class just because this class is entrapped in home loans and other such loans. Earlier they cheated people by lending money at exorbitant interests and grabbed farming lands & other properties worth crores of rupees. A parallel economy with black money is run by the same community
    The unethical ways of Marvadi’s are destroying people and the Nation. Gujju’s are aptly represented by people like Harshad Mehta and Ketan Parekh. Recent killings of innocent men, women & children from minorities can give a peep into the minds of Gujju’s where they are in majority. The same Gujju’s have driven out Maharashtrians from Mumbai to the far outskirts of Mumbai. Mumbai has been grabbed by Gujju’s. It is only the Parsi’s who do business in India very ethically and with a lot of social commitment & ecological responsibility. They have tremendous respect from every Indian.

    Brahmins blocked the education for others ensuring no competition. Brahmins have hold on Educational Institutions, Software companies, administrative jobs in Govt. & Lucrative posts in Private companies. Once a Brahmin enters an Organistaion, he slowly makes it the Brahmin Organisation, by employing everyone from his own caste. Where are others? They are peons, clerks, vegetable vendors, street cleaners, farm labourers, construction labourers, low level workers in factories and doing rest of the menial jobs. The suppression of masses continues in one form or the other.

    These three communities are the ardent supporters of BJP & the RSS. They are blinded by their self interests, least bothered about the Nation. Indulging in the superiority on Indian masses forever, they have been curse to the Indian masses.

    The new found mantra of Hindutva was a master stroke to deflect the attention of masses from the real issue of disparity & in equality to the non-issue of religion. Pitting one religion against another OR one caste against another are their strategic moves. It is indeed barbaric to fight each other just because the other is born in different religion or different caste. But that serves the purpose of these communities. Indian economy, businesses and education is in their hands. The masses should realise the intentions of the saffronites whose real masters are in this troika and instead of indulging in barbaric fights we should make every effort to uplift the masses to dizzying heights to be equal if not more equal to this troika, who have inflicted the greatest of injuries to the masses and this Nation.

    .

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ram Autar
    nice story.
    However, I want to bring the attention of Bobby and Ravi, our resident “liberals and proud of it” types to a basic fallacy-
    when we hear such amazing rants calling entire communities like Marwadis and Gujaratis blood-suckers, and anyone born in the brahmin caste subjected to abuse- that is supposed to be intelligent discourse in sociology??
    But a survey questionnnaire, admittedly loaded, gets your goat?
    Ravi, when you ask for “attack the idea, not the man”, I am with you. However, when a man comes to this forum to spread venom against entire communities with no substantiation from modern times except tired old quotes from Manusmriti, should he be tolerated?
    In India, we offer a job to a mental ****** like Kancha Illaiah to teach in a university; we hang on to every word of Arundhati Roy; we fete secessionists like Geelani ..
    So, maybe Ram Autar is part of the glorious tradition of oddballs we tolerate; even love.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    It is a nice dilemma that you pose and here is my sincere response.

    None of us can control what some one else decides to do, but each on of us is perfectly able to control what we do.

    It is normal in political blogs, such as this one, for individuals to resort to intemperate language and impossible to accept exaggerations. So to a certain extent this kind of rough and tumble is a part and parcel of this type of asymmetric discussion.

    I have enjoyed the expert way in which you have dealt with un-invited lessons in analogue & digital sound recording technologies, out of favour old Indian Brands and the technological research and development institutes, your personal families struggle to achieve grades I can only dream of. So you have demonstrated your ability to skilfully handle stubborn and misguided adversaries,

    Any one who suggests that all members of a particular religious/class/caste/nationality behave in an identical fashion is indulging in a form of unacceptable racism and must be resisted. As I suggested above, I have absolutely no doubt that it is within your ability to counter such and other absurd notions.

    Ignore the person – unless a personal attack has been made on you – and tackle the point.

    There are good and bad individuals in every community, no community is entirely good or totally bad.

    Cheer up Mon ami

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Well, some people always have to have “fair and balanced”..well, if there is heat theer has to be cold. If Muslims do bad things, othes also. If Muslims are killing people, well, sixty years ago Christians (?) bombed Horoshima. Or, two thousnad years ago Hindus killed Jains.

    Well, that logic takes one only so far. The fact remains that Muslims, and Muslims only are responsible for wordlwide terrorism, which unfortunately is killing more Muslims. Every day some Muslims somewhere are planning bombing innocents. Indian Muslims will be asked by their children one day why they did not do anything to combat the terrible Muslim terrorist attack (that will
    definitely happen in future) that killed thousands and thousands, while all the time whining about RSS.

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    I must once again state.

    As far as India is concerned it faces greater threat from RSS and its associates than it does from Muslim Fundos.

    I did post a link specifically addressed to you of a lecuter that Prof Martha C Nussbaum gave. I guess you did not have an open mind to listen to it.

    No one – other than you – who is drawing attention to the obvious Muslim Terrorism. We are the ones who are pointing to the hidden HINDU TERRORISM. I know it may hurt your sentiments, but it does need to be said.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram autar

    Please can you explain to me, WHY in countries where there are no Marwardi’s, Brahmin’s and Gujratis, yet there are dominant communities which oppress other minorities.

    I am of the opinion that you make several very relevant points and dig up facts which astonish me and I always find them to be accurate.

    Yet in order to retaliate against some unwarranted abuse you get from other bloggers, you some times make sweeping statements which detract from your otherwise strong points

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    there are dominant communities yes.but nowhere state through conspiracy give entire wealth to certain people.ambani never pay tax.permit raj and socialism was impose to benefit few.
    indian scientists cannot make blade.rocket technology was invented by tipu sultan.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I am surprised that this Talibani actually reads muslim propaganda posted by another talibani Ram Autar…Do we need more proof that Ravi is classic talibani?

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    The Muslinm issue =integration, isolation, initiative (lack of), terrorism etc etc = is debated and discussed all over the world. There is a current debate going on in germany, based on a book written by Tholo Sarrazin, their once head of central Bank and now a minister,;

    “The achievements of immigrants from M8uslim countreies are lower because it is a matter of culture, and Ialam is that culture”.. “intelligence is inherited, not nurtured, and since Muslims are lesss intelligent, the population will be dumbed down” Based on examining three indicators – success in education and employment, and welfare dependency – he concludes that Islam is by its nature a drag on individual success.

    “I came to a very astonishing conclusionm, and this is important – immigrants from non-Islamic countries show no statistical to the German population at all. On the other hand, immigrants from Muslim countries pose much greater problems . Their languge skills, academic skills, and professional skills are much below average”

    The author of “Germany does away with itself” is no right wing nut. he is a lifelong social democrat, and nots ome fringe far right extremist. “No other religion in Europe is so demanding, and no other migartion group depends so much on the social welfare state and is so much connected to criminality”,

    While it is easier to sweep away these as bigotry, Muslims will be wise to think through – why is theer an achievement lag all over – even in US, with all its openenenss and inclusiveness, how come Pakistani and Indian Muslims lag so far behind other Hindu, Sikh,a nd Christian Indians.. There are two governors of indian origin, and 10 Indians contested for congressional seats. It is not a big sample; but no Muslims. Look at universities, corp[orations, wall street, law firms, non-profits ..zilch..

    Muslims have to focus on themselves, develop, and grow.. The notion of fighting somebody else’s war, killing oneself for some virgins in afterlife, etc etc all ahve to be rethought. Partner, produce, preserve.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr binoy,

    europeans are rascist no.1.tell me what problem muslim create.i dont see any problem.if muslim women wear abaya.why so noise.fench ladies roam almost naked in muslim countries we dont pay attention.why a sikh should not wear turban or hindu woman should not wear sari.

    regarding muslim intellence at least indians have no right to speak.muslims have invented1000plusitems.500 years before oxford started we had great universities in spain`
    iraq and later in india.actually books to start oxford came from muslim world.

    world chmistry has come from arabic world chemia.algebra calculus alkaline alchohol etc`are muslim invetions.coffee u drink everyday and watch u wear are muslim invetion.

    clever europeans finished their mail population in communist revolution,ist and second world wars witch hunting,interfaith christian wars,annihilation of the natives from america to australia.
    after second world war germany brought turk (3millions)to marry their women and construct their war ravaged country.

    now they want to occupy middle east.muslim empires from turkey to jakarta are secular empires where foriegner love to stay.25000 germans came to uae 25 years ago,not even one dream to go.
    what problem we have created for others.in india we are creator wealth.in north every city is known with our handicraft.muslim rule of india was great blessing to indians.for the first time shudras were inducted into army backwards got land ownership which used to be property of temples.in 16th century ahmadabad was most beautiful city of world.moreover character of society.lord macaulay has described in his speech.

    anti-muslim propganda is built to occupy middle east.muslim countries are growing at faster rate than any other countries indonesian economy is second to china.before advising others
    u see the condition of india.barring few billionaires,general public wants to leave country.
    everything is done to rob nation.
    i have never seen hate mongering inmedia.like i find here.
    european are poor they need our moiney to come out reccession.muslims have not attacked any country.americans and europeans are attacking others countries.spain left coalation ,now nobody attack them.france and germany are legitimate target till there soldiers are killing people of afghanistan.

    DONT TEACH LESSONS TO MUSLIMS.CONTRIBUTIONS OF VEDICS IS ALMOST NIL EVEN NOW.U HAVE SEEN EUROPEAN RASCISM IN AUSTRALIA.WHY MUSLIM SHOULD NOT LIVE AS MUSLIM.BLACK DEEDS OF CHRISTIAN CHURCH IS KNOWN TO EVERYBODY.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Times of India, the reigning flagship of the big-mouthed Brahminical braggarts, itself has admitted we are good only at boasting without giving any proof.

    A Times staffer from Bangalore deputed to Shanghai (China), where the world’s biggest “World Expo 2010” is going on, says she was shocked to find that the Pakistan Pavilion had beaten India’s which was drawing no crowds. All that she found in the empty Indian stall was nothing but street food and handicrafts. (TOI June 23, 2010). What a shame.

    The Indian officials at the Expo, all upper castes, are not bothered about India’s shame. They have gone there to make maja at the govt. expense (RS. 41 crores).

    Media monopoly: The Shanghai World Expo-2010 is drawing peoples from all over the world and according Mrs. Hillary Clinton, the arch enemy of China who visited the Expo, she had never seen an exhibition like this in her life.

    The TOI reporter perhaps does not know that India in fact has nothing to show except its Kamasutra. But the Brahminical India puts on a big show worldwide by giving false report of “India shining”, “jumping” and all sorts of pomp and pageantry. When the Western media controlled by the Jews and the domestic media in the hands of the “Jews of India”, paints a rosy picture of India the world simply believes it. That is all the rulers want.

    The oppressed 85% of Indians have no media to tell the Plain Truth

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    Well, that logic takes one only so far. The fact remains that Muslims, and Muslims only are responsible for wordlwide terrorism

    BUT IN INDIA ALL TERRORIST CAUGHT IN PLANTING BOMBS ARE HINDU FANATICS OF ABHINAV BHARAT.GAME OF BOMB PLANTING WAS ROBBERY ON MUSLIM COMMUNITY, AS PER HOLY BRHMNCL SCRIPTURE.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    @Binoy

    You Indians have a habit of opening your mouth befoe checking your facts: Indian population is ten times more than Pakistan, and let me fill you in with some facts:

    POLITICS

    Sada Cumber as Special Envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) on February 27, 2008Saqib Ali – Delegate-elect to the Maryland House of Delegates, having won the right to represent the 39th District in the 2006 elections.[1]
    Saghir “Saggy” Tahir – Serves as a New Hampshire State Representative. He is the only elected Muslim in the Republican Party.[2] In the 2006 elections, he was re-elected for a fourth term to represent Ward 2, District 9 in his home town of Manchester.[3]
    Tahir Ali – The first Pakistani American elected as a National delegate-at-large (R) from Massachusetts in 1992.
    Huma Abedin – Aide to United States Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton who served as traveling chief of staff during Clinton’s campaign for the Democratic nomination in the 2008 presidential election.[4]
    Sada Cumber – First United States Ambassador to the Organisation of the Islamic Conference.[5]
    Shamila N. Chaudhary – U.S. Government policy adviser.[6]
    Haroon Saleem – Mayor of Granite Falls, Washington.[7]
    Mohammad Ali Chaudry – Was elected mayor of Bernards Township, New Jersey in 2004. Also a Lecturer at Rutgers School of Business – Camden.[8]
    Mohammed Hameeduddin – Mayor of Teaneck, New Jersey

    Business and Finance
    Michael Chowdry (1955–2001) – Forbes 400 businessman and later the founder of air cargo company Atlas Air which in 2001 was worth in excess of $1.39 billion.[10]
    Hammad Siddiqi – Economist and Social Commentator. Received numerous awards in journalism including the Edward F. Tancready Award.[11]
    Fred Hassan – was the Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of pharmaceutical company Schering-Plough from 2003 until November 3, 2009 when the company completed its merger with Merck & Co.[12]
    Safi Qureshey – Former CEO and co-founder of AST Research (a fortune-500 company with revenues in excess of 2.5 billion USD).[13]
    Shahid Khan – President of Flex-N-Gate Corp., with $2 billion in annual revenue.[14] In February 2010 entered into a contract to buy 60% of NFL team St. Louis Rams which is estimated to be worth $725 million to $950 million.[15]
    Nabeel Gareeb – Nabeel was appointed President and Chief Executive Officer and a member of the Board of Directors of MEMC in 30 April 2002.[16] According to CNN he was the 24th highest paid CEO[17] in 2006 and according to Forbes he was the 6th highest earning CEO in 2008 in the United States.[18]
    Tariq Farid – Entrepreneur who is the owner and CEO of Edible Arrangements International Inc.[19]
    Atif Sheikh – was the finalist for the new World Trade Center design contest hosted by CNN. He later found Atex Capital Partners (ACP) a combined venture capital firm based in London.
    Mohammed Khan – President and Founder of ViVOtech Inc[20]
    Atiq Raza – Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Raza Microelectronics, Inc.[21] A pioneer in the Microprocessor industry he took on the colossal task of taking on NexGen (a start-up company) and challenging the total dominance of Intel. He went on to sell NexGen for $800 million to AMD instead of an offer of $1.2 billion from the memory chip maker Micron. In 1999 he led AMD to successfully produce and market the K-6 processors. thereby breaking Intel’s monopoly of the microprocessor market.[22][23]
    Mansoor Ijaz – Businessman, the founder and chairman of Crescent Investment Management LLC (CIM), a New York investment partnership since 1990 that includes among others Lt Gen James Alan Abrahamson (USAF Ret), former director of President Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative and the renowned German architect Joachim Hauser. He is also a commentator on Fox News.[24]

    ACADeMIA:

    Prof. Adil Najam during a talk at Deutsche Welle Building in Bonn, Germany on 21st January 2010Nergis Mavalvala – MacArthur Fellow and Professor of Physics at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
    Ayesha Jalal – MacArthur Fellow and Richardson Professor of History at Tufts University.[25]
    Professor Akbar S. Ahmed – Currently the Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at the American University in Washington DC. He is also a diplomat, anthropologist, writer and film-maker.[26]
    Anwar Shaikh – currently Professor of Economics at the Graduate Faculty of The New School in New York City.[27]
    Saleem H. Ali – Accomplished environmental researcher and Associate Dean for Graduate studies at the University of Vermont’s Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources. He is a popular writer and contributor to publications such as the International Herald Tribune. He has dual American and Pakistani citizenship.[28]
    Mohammad Aslam Khan Khalil – Professor of Physics at Portland State University[29] and is a highly cited researcher in the field of Atmospheric physics.
    Zia Mian – Research scientist at Princeton University[30] and directs the Project on Peace and Security in South Asia, at the Program on Science and Global Security.[31] Is also a renowned Pakistani-American physicist.[32]
    Farooq Azam – Distinguished Professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UCSD and is a highly cited researcher in the field of marine microbiology.[33]
    Abdul Jamil Tajik – Highly cited researcher in clinical medicine.[34]
    Adil Najam – Professor of Geography and International Relations and Director of the Pardee Center at Boston University.[35] Also founding editor of popular blog Pakistaniat.[36]
    Asad Abidi – Professor of Electrical Engineering at the University of California, Los Angeles and a member of the National Academy of Engineering.[37]
    Ahsan Kareem – Robert M. Moran Professor of Civil Engineering and Geological Sciences at the University of Notre Dame and a member of the National Academy of Engineering.[38]
    Dr. Bashir A. Syed – Renowned Physicist, NASA Scientist and authority on Renewable Energy such as Solar and Wind Energy. Distinguished member of NY Academy of Sciences[39]
    Dr. Mohammad Qasim Ansari – Professor and Head of the Department of Pathology, UT Southwestern Medical School in Dallas, TX
    Dr. Mustafa Hussain – Professor of Geriatrics and Psychology, UT Southwestern Medical School in Dallas, TX
    Dr. Sohail Murad – Professor and Department Head, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Illinois at Chicago
    Dr. Imran Hayee – Professor and Director Graduate studies, Electrical and Computer engineering, University of Minnesota, Duluth
    Dr. Nayab Zafar – Developed new technology that can reduce heart disease and stroke risk in peripheral artery disease patients.
    Dr. Hafeez Malik is Professor of Political Science at Villanova University, in Pennsylvania

    Literature and Art
    Shahzia Sikander (born 1969 in Lahore, Pakistan) – Pakistan-born American artist who specializes in Pakistani, South Asian and Persian miniature painting. She has also created murals, installations, mixed-media works and performance art. She is a 2006 recipient of the MacArthur Fellows Program “genius grant”. She currently resides in New York City.[41]
    Noon Meem Danish – Pakistani poet of African and Baloch descent.[42]
    Samina Quraeshi – Award-winning author, artist and designer[43]
    Kamila Shamsie – Award-winning novelist of books such as Salt and Saffron and Broken Verses.[44]
    Rob Asghar – Writer and political commentator. His essays and commentaries have appeared in more than 30 newspapers around the world, including The Denver Post, The Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Daily News, Los Angeles Times, The Philadelphia Inquirer and The Japan Times. Asghar has also been a columnist for Creators Syndicate and the Ashland Daily Tidings.[45]
    Bapsi Sidhwa – Pakistani novelist and playwright of Parsi-Zoroastrian background who now resides in Texas. Her novel Cracking India (which described the Partition of British colonial India) was the basis for Deepa Mehta’s film Earth (1998 film).[46]

    Kamila ShamsieMohsin Hamid – Bestselling author of books such as Moth Smoke and The Reluctant Fundamentalist.[47]
    Tahir Ali – Author of the award winning book, “Muslim Vote Counts” published in 2004 by Wyndham Hall.
    Ali Pervez – International Best Selling Author , M.B.A, FRSC – “Get Your Black Belt in Marketing,” Morgan James New York, New York.[48]
    Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi – is an American Muslim author and Islamic teacher[49]
    Tahmena Bokhari – College Professor in Toronto, a social worker, writer and speaker.[50]
    Asma Gull Hasan – Award-winning writer. Her work includes the book Red, White, and Muslim, a biographical view of growing up as an American Muslim.[51]
    Imad Rahman – Fiction writer whose first short story collection was published in 2004.[52]
    Maliha Masood – Award-winning writer in creative non-fiction and the author of the travel memoir, Zaatar Days, Henna Nights.[53]
    Zulfikar Ghose – Novelist, poet and essayist.[54][55]
    Nafisa Haji – Author of The novel ‘Writing on My Forehead’[56]
    Daniyal Mueenuddin – Is a Pakistani author of the critically acclaimed short-story collection In Other Rooms, Other Wonders.[57]

    Health and Medicine
    Dr. Ayub K. Ommaya – Prominent neurosurgeon and expert in traumatic brain injuries. Invented the Ommaya reservoir, which is used to provide chemotherapy directly to brain tumors.
    Dr.Gholam Mujtaba – Former Provincial Advisor to the Government of Sindh Pakistan. Former Secretary General Karachi University Students Union.A close associate of former President Pervez Musharraf. Presently Member Chairman’s Advisory Board of the Republican National Committee, and a Pharmacist *** Physician.

    There are 15000 Doctors from Pakistan in the USA as compared to 35000 from India. You can figure our what the ratio is.

    Media and Entertainment
    There are Urdu radio stations in areas with high Pakistani population. Several cable and satellite providers offer Pakistani channels: GEO TV,[58] ARY Digital,[59] PTV,[60] and many more. Others have offered Pakistani content for subscription, such as when Pakistan played Australia for the Cricket World Cup in 1999. In July 2005, MTV premiered a spin-off network called MTV Desi which targets South Asian Americans in the U.S. which includes Pakistanis.[61] MTV Desi closed operations as part of the shutdown of MTV World in April 2007.[62]

    Kamran Pasha – Hollywood screenwriter and director, most famous for writing the Showtime hit series Sleeper Cell.[63]
    Asieh Namdar – Born in Karachi, Pakistan to Iranian parents. Senior writer for HLN and serves as an anchor for CNN International. Namdar also provides reports and analysis of international news on CNN/U.S.[64]
    Christel Khalil – Is of mixed Pakistani and African American descent. She is best known for her role as Lily Winters on the CBS soap opera The Young and the Restless.[65]
    Dilshad Vadsaria – She is of Portuguese and Pakistani descent. An American television actress, she currently plays the role of Rebecca Logan on the ABC television program Greek.[66][67]
    Hassan Zee – Writer, producer and director. Wrote, produced and directed Night of Henna, the first Pakistani-American film in history distributed all over US theatrically.[68]
    Zaigham Khan[citation needed] – Pakistani American VJ, host, dancer, and actor. Khan is considered to be one of the most well-known youngest Pakistani American’s in today’s time. He has been in the media field for almost 10 years. Currently he can be seen on two of Pakistan’s top music channels ARY Musik and AAG TV, which are played all over the world.
    Nadia Ali Songstress best known as a former member of the band iiO and song Rapture.[69] She has worked with many famous DJs such as Armin Van Buuren.[70]
    MC Lazarus – Real name Kamran Rasheed Khan, b. July 17th 1982 is a hip hop artist from Detroit, Michigan who has worked with various American celebrities in the field. The Discovery Channel featured him on a documentary called “The Real 8 Mile” which focuses on how he balances his life as a hip hop artist and as a medical student[71] at Michigan State University.
    Mehreen Jabbar[72] – Director and a 14-year veteran of the industry, with a prolific career as a Director/Producer of gritty, hard-hitting films for Pakistani television. She directed Ramchand Pakistani which was nominated for World Narrative Feature Competition in Tribeca Film Festival in New York, Seattle International Film Festival, Osian Film Festival, New Delhi among others[73]
    Bohemia[74] – Pakistani American Rapper from San Francisco. His music has been widely played in the American clubbing scene. He has a large underground following and is widely recognized as the pioneer of Desi Hip Hop.
    Salman Ahmad – of South Asian band Junoon[75] has members from the United States and the founder Salman Ahmad now resides in New York and is a UN Goodwill Ambassador.[76][77]
    Mr. Capone-E – Born Fahd Azam, is a gangster rapper from Los Angeles, CA, from his first release he sold over 500,000 units without major promotion and radio play.[78]
    Naureen Zaim[79] – Half Pakistani half Irish model, actress and athlete.
    DJ Alphatoon – The first DJ to remix only Pakistani songs and released a full Pakistani remixed album in North America in 1999.[80]
    Fareed Haque – Fusion guitar virtuoso of Pakistani and Chilean descent.[81]
    GQ (actor) – Gregory J. Qaiyum, American actor, writer and MC. Son of a Caucasian American mother of German and English descent and a Pakistani father.[82]
    JAQ – Jeffery Ameen Qaiyum, is an American professional b-boy, writer and MC. Brother of GQ.[83]
    Mehr Hassan – Indian father, Pakistani mother. Actress, model and classical dancer.[84]
    Munaf Rayani – Guitarist for the Texan post-rock band Explosions in the Sky.[85]
    Munni Begum – Real name Nadira, a Famous Ghazal Singer from Pakistan, based in Chicago, IL.[86]
    Somy Ali – Of Iraqi and Pakistani descent. Former Bollywood actress and now model and journalist.[87]
    Syma Chowdhry – Award winning television host, reporter, producer, news writer, model and actress.[88]
    Zurain Imam – Born in Chittagong, Bangladesh is a US-Pakistani print and broadcast fashion journalist.[89]
    Iqbal Theba – Has starred in numerous American sitcoms but most famous for playing Principal Figgins in the show Glee

    Sports
    Nur B. Ali – racecar driver who drives in the ARCA Series for Cunningham Motorsports. He is the first Pakistani to become a racing driver, and a former two-time Southwest Formula Mazda Series Champion (2001 & 2002). Also has a Bachelor of Arts degree, American University – Washington, D.C. majoring in International Relations.[97]
    Hasan Habib – Professional poker player.[98]
    Rashid Zia – American crickter. represented the United States in the ICC trophy in 2001.[99]
    Nasir Javed – American cricketer[100]
    Gibran Hamdan – First person of Pakistani descent to play in the NFL.

    I think this enough to deflate your balloon, more facts will posted tomorrow.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    PRIEST FROM SECULAR AMERICA WERE LEADING THE TROOPS WITH GUNS NOT BIBLE.Every big city in India has a “den of the Jews” called Freemason lodge. The capital city, Delhi’s most important road, Janpath, where it touches the Connaught Place, has the Delhi branch of the Freemasons located in a sprawling prime locality — so well maintained even to this day. Calcutta, Madras, Bombay, Bangalore and other big cities have also such dens.

    What is the Freemason lodge? Nobody knows. It is all secret. It is a conspiratorial centre of the Jews and the “Jews of India”.

    The top-most people of a city are members of this lodge without even knowing what it is all about.

    Priests holding guns: We are reproducing excerpts from the book of the top-most Roman Catholic Pope who exposed the criminal conspiracies of this secret society.

    “Freemasons lodge” is the secret society of the Jews, as narrated by the highest religious authority in the Christian world. It is the Jews who killed Jesus and later divided the church into Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches and brought about so much confusion in the Western world.

    Again it is the Jews who gave birth to different Protestant religions to further weaken the Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church which mushroomed in USA was engineered and financed by the Jews who totally control the USA.

    .

    President George Bush engaged the Evangelical church leaders to lead the American troops sent to destroy Iraq. These Christian priests were ho

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    I can challenge any of you to check out teaching staff of any University in the USA, if you find five Indian professors ther will be atleat 1 Pakistani Professor. Check any Hospital in the USA, if there 10 Indian Doctors, there are at 5 Pakistani Doctors.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    20000 INDIANS HAVE COMMITED SUICIDE IN ANDHRA .i never heard anything like this from pakistan or bangladesh.they are simply boasters live in their own worlds.from last 40b yrs wealth from muslim countries have changed the scenerio.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    AZHAR WE ARE SIMPLY BOATERS,DONT TAKE THESE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY,

    Times of India, the reigning flagship of the big-mouthed Brahminical braggarts, itself has admitted we are good only at boasting without giving any proof.

    A Times staffer from Bangalore deputed to Shanghai (China), where the world’s biggest “World Expo 2010” is going on, says she was shocked to find that the Pakistan Pavilion had beaten India’s which was drawing no crowds. All that she found in the empty Indian stall was nothing but street food and handicrafts. (TOI June 23, 2010). What a shame.

    The Indian officials at the Expo, all upper castes, are not bothered about India’s shame. They have gone there to make maja at the govt. expense (RS. 41 crores).

    Media monopoly: The Shanghai World Expo-2010 is drawing peoples from all over the world and according Mrs. Hillary Clinton, the arch enemy of China who visited the Expo, she had never seen an exhibition like this in her life.

    The TOI reporter perhaps does not know that India in fact has nothing to show except its Kamasutra. But the Brahminical India puts on a big show worldwide by giving false report of “India shining”, “jumping” and all sorts of pomp and pageantry. When the Western media controlled by the Jews and the domestic media in the hands of the “Jews of India”, paints a rosy picture of India the world simply believes it. That is all the rulers want.

    The oppressed 85% of Indians have no media to tell the Plain Truth

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Out of 5 pakistani doctors, it is quite possible 4 and half will be supporter of Osama just like you.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    they are only one who fighting and getting killed insearch of ossama.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajeev

    However all 10 Indian Doctores would have been RSS men.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Whereas 4 and half doctors and all their muslim patients like you would be taliban man.

    Ravi Reply:

    Azar

    I read your very long list of Muslim high achievers.

    I am sure Binoy can construct a similar, if not longer, list and Indian and Hindu High achievers.

    Not sure what each of this list achieves.

    Can we not agree that there are High Achievers – thank god for that – in every community.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Ravi

    I certainly did not mean to downplay Indians achievements in all sphere of lives in the west especially USA. Binoy was quoting anit-islamic good for nothing Germain. That guys accusing Muslims because are willing to change.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Azhar Hussain , just one scientific discovery from mainland pakistan please, if you look into peer reviewed medical journals , you will find substantial contribution from India, in pakistan’s case it is like finding the Dodo bird.The same reason patients come from pakistan to India for heart surgery , not the other way round, though to be fair pakistani doctors are world famous or rather there is a specialist centre in pakistan treating acid burn to face due to domestic violence. I have seen In TV one Indian women travelld to pakistan for treatment.

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    PRIEST FROM SECULAR AMERICA WERE LEADING THE TROOPS WITH GUNS NOT BIBLE.Every big city in India has a “den of the Jews” called Freemason lodge. The capital city, Delhi’s most important road, Janpath, where it touches the Connaught Place, has the Delhi branch of the Freemasons located in a sprawling prime locality — so well maintained even to this day. Calcutta, Madras, Bombay, Bangalore and other big cities have also such dens.

    What is the Freemason lodge? Nobody knows. It is all secret. It is a conspiratorial centre of the Jews and the “Jews of India”.

    The top-most people of a city are members of this lodge without even knowing what it is all about.

    Priests holding guns: We are reproducing excerpts from the book of the top-most Roman Catholic Pope who exposed the criminal conspiracies of this secret society.

    “Freemasons lodge” is the secret society of the Jews, as narrated by the highest religious authority in the Christian world. It is the Jews who killed Jesus and later divided the church into Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches and brought about so much confusion in the Western world.

    Again it is the Jews who gave birth to different Protestant religions to further weaken the Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church which mushroomed in USA was engineered and financed by the Jews who totally control the USA.

    .

    President George Bush engaged the Evangelical church leaders to lead the American troops sent to destroy Iraq. These Christian priests were holding guns instead of the Bible.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Pakistan ka matlab kya..
    l*nd pe chade humko kya…

    Gali Gali mein shor hai, pakistan mahachor hai…

    It is time to free Balochis from punjabi mafia ruling pakistan…

    Long live independent SECULAR republic of Balochistan…

    Down Down Rapist and Raped ISLAMIC FASCIST TERRORIST republic of pakistan…

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    mr rajeev problem with u people is that ,ur hate mongering pak bashing have no taker.85%creator
    of wealth wants peace to run their household.india has bad relationship with all its neighbours
    from hindu nepal to budhhdist burma&lanka to communist china.
    but for survivor of brhmnsm war is must.voilence is its oxygen.

    neverthless i also used to sing this song in my child hood.may be u are still child.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Talibani Autar,

    Pakistan ka matlab kya..
    l*nd pe chade humko kya…

    Gali Gali mein shor hai, pakistan mahachor hai…

    It is time to free Balochis from punjabi mafia ruling pakistan…

    Long live independent SECULAR republic of Balochistan…

    Down Down Rapist and Raped ISLAMIC FASCIST TERRORIST republic of pakistan…

    [Reply]

  • ram autar

    mr shan and mr hegde,the following speech of lord will explainwhy they are so much oppose madarssa &our ancient vedic system of education.will also tell why toys like niraj choudhary and vs naipul were created,promoted and given so much publicity awards and rewards.,

    LORD MACAULAY’S ADDRESS TO BRITISH PARLIAMENT 2nd FEBRUARY 1835

    “I have travelled across length and Breadth of India and I have not seen aperson who is a beggar who is a thief. such a wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient educational system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and english is good and greater than their own way,they will lose their selfesteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them , a truly domintaed nation.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    Some consequences of “respecting all religions”. This phrase actually means “respecting fundametalists of all religions”.. It soon becomes what it is actually meant for… shutting up dissent and progressive thoughts of all forms and shades.

    (1) Mistry’s book Banned.

    (2) Rushdie’s book banned

    (3) Hussain has to leave india.

    (4) Roy almost slapped with sedetion for pointing out the farce of a “peace loving secular democratic India”

    (5) A teacher in Kerala gets his hands chopped, he is thrown out of the school, and the Church actually blames him!

    (6) An old Muslim lady Shah-Bano doesnot get justice.

    (7) A mosque is destroyed, because “Hindus Believe” that 500 years back there was a temple, of which not a shred of evidence exists.

    (8) The law then gives the demolition a legal sanction, and gives the land where the mosque, (which everybody saw, existed) to the same people who destroyed it.. citing the “respect of faith of millions” who believe (but nobody has a shred of evidence about) that this is the place where Lord Ram was born several lakh years ago.

    (9) Tests of patriotism devised at every stage. Playing the national anthem in a movie hall. Supporting the Indian cricket team. Singing Vande Mataram. Having Indian names. Respecting Upanishads and Ram and Vedas… and all the BS that goes with it- like believing in the divinity of man and the theory of rebirth.

    (10) A lot of BS about the Ram Setu, even when its been proved beyond doubt that its a natural formation formed millions of years ago.

    (11) Introducing cow slaughter laws, because hindus believe cow is holy… SO others also should not be allowed to eat it.

    (12) Anti-conversion laws introduced…. One more step closer to becoming a hindu Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby, You are letting your imagination and fear run wild. I am happy you are back to my fold of rationalist , and as you know science is the inner lining of that jacket called rationalism.having seen a fair bit of the world , i have come to the conclusion that what swami vivekananda said still holds true, agey manoosh hou porey sob kichu hoeya jaibay, for non bengali readers, first try to be a good human being ,rest will automatically fall into place.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @ Shan,

    One does not become a rationalist by saying so 10000 times. You do not seem to realize how obnoxious you sound when you keep on harping about your rationality, even when no one is calling you irrational.

    One more point, being Emotional is NOT the opposite of being Rational.

    Having an emotional attachements to ones wife, kid, parents does not make one irrational does it?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Bobby , emotion is emotion , rationality is rationality , when emotion is needed you do not apply rationality , when rationality is needed you do not apply emotion , trying to do otherwise is OBNOXIOUS , which you seem to fall prey to.

    Ashish Reply:

    @Bobby,
    nice list; shall email this around (with due credit, of course- “to a man who posts under the handle of Bobby”). Never mind that I may not have full agreement on a few; they still make a nice list :-)

    [Reply]

    a Reply:

    Anti conversions laws are for a purpose.Christainity in the name of “aid” in most of the regions using donations from out of India.National Anthem i carried out in many countries. Hussain could have been better served had he done the painting of his own religiuos orders.There was a crude sexual deviency even ****** mentality that we are supposed to be protect in the name of liberaism.The mitry book uses ghati perjoratively remove ghati use any other perjorative suffixes like bhangi ,landya,homo and on,trust me the book reduces to a sad hate speech.One mosque was destroyed and so much of hullaboo.Battle of Panipat, 70000 hindus killled in the name of jihad look it up.Arundhati Roy loves Pakistan as wel she might stay there.Lasty indian havent persecuted muslims as Pakistani have persecuted hindus, christians and even shias, ahmediyya ,Khojas and bohris.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    The brilliant Monthy-Python sketch explaining “Anarcho-Syndicalism” :)

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA”

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ Allah ‘autar’

    BANIA is you dad , you son of a wh*re.

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    u mean to say i am son of ur mthr

    [Reply]

    ram autar Reply:

    dear paitosh i apolige using some bad wrds.tell me the objection.or awnser my question.
    abuse will take us no where.why u abuse my mthr ,who died 20 years ago better abuse me.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar.

    Well said my friend.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar

    The only reason why he abuses you is because he is intellectually bankrupt and has no rational argument to offer against your points.

  • Azhar Hussain

    Paritosh

    Is a product of illegimate relationship, hence his abusive attitude.,

    [Reply]

  • http://www.tv5news.in kiran

    Let’s open up our markets for the US in return for tightening the screws on Pakistan, cracking down on terror emanating from it and limiting US military aid to that country. lmao :)

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    @Kiran

    Question is not what the USA can do, Question should what your country can do alone? And the answer is Zero Zilch Nada….

    If USA wants to attack any country in the world, they will and nobody can stop them.

    Here is a nice video for you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWtjtxqNqc

    [Reply]

  • http://@@@ neha

    Mr. Azhar Hussain, If u dont mind please, I simply wanna ask u, r u Pakistani or An Indian????

    [Reply]

  • neha

    @Azhar Hussain, I m still waiting 4 ur reply??????????????

    [Reply]

  • http://177abc177abc.com sadie

    Heelllo! Just wanted to say great site. Keep up the good work!

    [Reply]

  • Anamika

    Absolutely lovely
    Is all I can say
    If the say the rest aloud
    It’ll be termed hearsay!

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aakash-Gupta/100002866735356 Aakash Gupta

    Abhi

    If we were to accept chinese like country/men (totally your wording) then why we have blanket cover called “DEMOCRACY”

    [Reply]

  • Jyoti basu

    congress paid media as simple as she is ?

    [Reply]

  • Jyoti basu

    congress paid media as simple as she is ?

    [Reply]

  • jyoti

    simple , we can think she can’t

    [Reply]

  • jyoti

    simple , we can think she can’t

    [Reply]

  • Abdul Hafeez

    Nice Article, I think Mrs Chadha has remained true to facts, I have been a fan of her since my school days in the 90’s , since Mr Sanjay Gandhi remains such a divisive figure in Indian politics we are bound to see such sharp division of opinion, also its great to see the author take so much criticism and still reply with so much graciousness

    [Reply]

  • Katarinasmith

    During the UPA Government there are Lots of scam and increase the Corrupt increase day by day and UPA Government is Misuse the CBI in different cases

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130505230123AAj2Yha

    [Reply]

  • FAKENAME

    “did not join politics till it became absolutely necessary”
    To whom?

    To whom?

    To whom?

    To whom?

    To whom?

    To whom?

    To whom?
    To whom?

    [Reply]

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    Men’s Jewellery

    Specializes in tungsten jewellery,We have classic and contemporary tungsten mens jewellery to suit every mood. Visit our website or call 0800 886 478 today.

    [Reply]