Congratulations, Sania and Shoaib



Sania Mirza’s decision to marry Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Malik could not have been plain easy. Nor could she have taken it without courage, scruples and a clean conscience.

That said, I can make some fair guesses. The India-Pakistan divide must have crossed Sania’s mind at least once. Indian Muslims are required to be seen as disdainful of Pakistan. Even passing admiration of a Pakistani cricketer could be a test of patriotism, let alone getting married to one of them. Sania could not have been unaware of this.

Moreover, the 24-year-old must have thought of the poisonous criticism that awaited her from the Hindu lunatic fringe. Her ability to play for India could be under cloud. Her family may face threats. Worse, her loyalty could be called to question. Radical Hindu groups could use her case to target all Indian Muslims yet again.

Some Muslims in the western UP town of Bijnore on Sunday protested against Sania’s choice of a Pakistani. It is a clear effort on the part of a threatened community to prove its loyalty.

The Hindu communalists, from Bajrang Dal to Shiv Sena, did make a meal of Sania’s decision. Yet, the bouncy tennis sensation took the plunge. Why? Simply because, deep in her heart, love for a Pakistani and being Indian need not necessarily be a conflicting experience.

What can Indian Muslims learn from Sania’s very personal decision? It is this: never be apologetic about Pakistan. Do not be needlessly cynical about that country out of fear of being dubbed a traitor. You are not.

On the other hand, Sania’s decision mirrors something I have long been convinced of. Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians are friendly, respectful and really fond of one another. I have seen this at work many a time.

Such meetings turn into epiphanies of reunions so warm that it is difficult to distinguish the different nationalities. No Indian blends more easily with people from other countries.

Soon after 26/11, I wanted to report on the effects of this terrible terrorist attack on ordinary Indians and Pakistanis. I went about gauging ties between ordinary citizens of the two countries. I expected cross-border travel to have dropped sharply. It would have made a great newspaper story.

The first place I went to was Delhi’s Ambedkar Bus Terminus. I found the bookings full up. When the Delhi-Lahore bus pulled in, as it does every evening, and the passengers alighted, a carnival broke out.

I then did the rounds of some of the city’s private hospitals. Pakistanis are known to flock them, unable to get advanced healthcare in their home country. At Delhi’s Escorts hospital, I came across a young Pakistani father whose six-year-old daughter had a congenital defect. I forget his name but remember asking him if he felt unsafe in India after the Mumbai attacks.

As Ajmal Kasab and gang went about their deadly raids, cardiac surgeon Ashok Seth repaired a hole in the six-year-old Pakistani’s heart. Hugging me, her father from Lahore said: “Some Pakistani terrorists have killed so many Indians. But an Indian has given life to my daughter. Please come visiting us in Lahore and stay with us.” A strange feeling suffused me.

Some time after 26/11 again, a Pakistani delegation comprising journalists and intellectuals were invited to India. They were here to discuss the future of people-to-people relations of the two countries and how to save it from politics.

Every Pakistani embraced every other Indian when they met up at Delhi’s Constitution Club. In a closed door meeting, set up to discuss the strategy on keeping people-to-people relations alive, several Pakistanis slammed their government and the military establishment there.

Over tea, I talked to Asma Jehangir, the leading Pakistani lawyer. I had read about how she would take the near-dictators of her country head on. She indeed is a pint-sized woman with a big voice she is not afraid to use. “General Kayani, I can’t stand that man,” she told me. A women writer from Swat agreed. Another Pakistani writer slammed the Indian government for what he believed was Indian-sponsored terror in Pakistan.

Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. But that’s how it goes, with governments being governments and politics being politics.

Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians have never been strangers nor will they ever be. Congratulations, Sania Mirza and Shoaib Malik.

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  • moon

    Would you have stayed on in India if it did not provide you the facilities that it did? Let’s say the conditions were reversed, and Pakistan became an Islamic paradise like Saudi with tons of money (well, however much of a paradise it can be) and opened its borders to Indian Muslims. How long will it take for you to switch loyalties — or rather, be more forthcoming about your loyalties?

    I am not asking these questions out of pique, but curiosity is human nature.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Yes. Each one of these moslems will switch loyalty.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Well we already know the answer in another case. Indians rush to accept American citizenship, “switching loyalities”, to use your terminology, at the drop of a hat. Most of the Indians who go and settle there are by the way Hindus. So that clearly tells us how “loyal” Hindus in India are.

    [Reply]

    Grow up folks... Reply:

    Good one Bobby. whole heartedly agree! The US NRI hindus should also be subject to the same loyalty test. And lets not be under the illusion that the US is a buddy to us…they will ring us and make is kneel as a compliant state and is already doing so by playing to our vanity aboout “greatness”. I am a hindu by the way in case anyone has doubts! I am not surprised no one else responded because of the blinders people have on about Muslims

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    lol at your stinking logic.

    the usa is neither a hindu country nor does it treat hindus well.

    porkistan on the other hand is an islamic republic and a classic example of a majoritarian society.

    VARUN SAXENA Reply:

    Very well said !!!

    [Reply]

    moon Reply:

    The US has never been proven to have sponsored bombings in India or supported jihadi terror. You don’t find American businessmen contributing to a jihad fund for liberation of Kashmir. You do not find dead terrorists after shootouts on Indian soil with American IDs. David Headley is yet to name the US intelligence or army agents behind Mumbai’s terror attacks. And the US does not let jihadi terrorists gather on its soil and hold rallies against India and promise bloodshed. Neither do US cricketers (or baseball players) marry their sons to daughters of Dawood. Given the volume of proof there is against state sponsored terrorism from Pakistan, you really CANNOT compare Pakistan and the US. I am sure American citizens, no matter how secular and liberal, would not show similar support for Al Quaida. And no American will tolerate its Muslim citizens showing open support for a group that has killed so many people on American soil, no matter how secular and liberal they might be.

    Perhaps you liberals have no relatives in the army, posted on the inhospitable border terrains, being carried home in bodybags on a regular basis. Or maybe you never lost anyone you love in a bomb blast. Being liberal on a well filled stomach and in safe, airconditioned comfort is always easy.

    Really, moving to the US is not the same as showing loyalty for a state that has been responsible for a lot of wars and bloodshed in India over the last 60 years. You cannot put your blinkers on and imagine that did not happen, or state that India was the aggressor, like the author of the blog is doing. If the side you support has made a mistake, then you have to be able to say that openly, rather than, as they say, “give a dog a bad name and hang it.”

    Sasank Reply:

    There is a difference between taking citizenship of a neutral country and switching loyalties to the enemy country as explained by moon.

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Loon(y) moon,

    “The US has never been proven to have sponsored bombings in India or supported jihadi terror”

    Thats a fraud statement. You know very well, that Pakistan supported terror acts in India are done under the full knowledge of the US, and in fact with its tacit support. If the US wants it can order Pakistan to wrap up the India oriented terror cells, as it had ordered it to wrap up its relation with the Taliban post 9/11.

    Given that Pakistan is totally under US influence, it could be done IF, and its a very big IF, it wanted to. Infact, the funding that these terror organizations get is from the ISI, which gets it from the US! SO indeed its the US that is supporting teror in India, and has being doing so for a long time.

    Moreover, the US has been presurising India to act against its own interests. One example is the way its pressurising India to not sign a deal with Iran for a Gas pipeline, which would go a long way in securing India’s energy interests.

    Yet another example is the way it has betrayed India on the issue of Headley, one of the main accused in the 26/11 attacks. Not only has it refused to give Headley to India, but it also stuck a deal with him, and now India has to go begging to it to demand some time to interrogate him. These are just the India centric acts of the US….not to mention the numerous other terror actions of the US around the world…..

    So when the NRI’s in the US stay back in that country for selfish material gains, knowing full well these facts, its indeed, by the standards you have demanded from Indian muslims, a highly “disloyal” act.

    Now about your hypothetical example of Indian muslims migrating to Pakistan, if Pakistan ever became a rich nation, well be sure if Pakistan ever became a wealthy nation, the first set of people to migrate and would be the rich hindus from India, singing the tunes of “Akhand Bharat”.

    moon Reply:

    Ah, here is Bobby, who starts calling people names when he cannot win arguments logically. We have not called upon you to provide perfect rhymes to other people’s names, like kindergarten children, have we? I think there is a different website for that, somewhere…try looking up those sites on Humpty Dumpty and Jack n Jill…you might find them more congenial to your tastes.

    Pakistan plays double games. Even the US knows that. On one hand, it begs for financial aid, on the other, it props up terrorist groups that have long been on the US radar. Now, the only way for the US to bring Pakistan to obey it 100% would be to carpet bomb it like it did with Iraq and Afghanistan and occupy the country for a while as it installs its own handpicked prime minister there. A proceeding that the author of this blog and you yourself are going to deplore in the strongest terms, I suppose. But of course, that is not “disloyalty” on your part…

    moon Reply:

    Some Hindus might migrate, it is true. How long they remain Hindus, remains to be seen. You know as well as I do that Pakistan is not India. Where minorities such as you get away by making the most ridiculous assertions against the country, minorities in Pakistan have been “defanged” in a most effective manner. While you admire most things Pakistani, you would object to Hindus here emulating Pakistanis in their minority management methodologies, I am sure.

    The rights you enjoy in this country, I will never have in Pakistan. And yet, Pakistan remains the country some people here have a “soft corner” for…

    David Headley being tried in the US is perhaps for the better. Here, we cannot even reach a judgment on Kasab, even with the entire world having seen him on video pumping lead into civilians. I know, I know, you will say Kasab is a RAW agent…bla bla…so there is no point arguing with you there.

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear nutcase moon,

    ….”who starts calling people names”… yes I like to call a spade a spade…hence a nut is called a nut.

    “Now, the only way for the US to bring Pakistan to obey it 100% would be to carpet bomb it..”

    No di ck head, it simply has to cut off its aid to begin with, or merely make a phone call to the president, as in the case of the taliban after 9/11. The fact of the matter is that the US does not care about India life.

    You know it as well as I do, but you wont say so, because you are one of those who gains materially from the US. Hence people like you choose to keep quite at that front, simply because to you Indian lives are less important than the paisa you earn from the US. Now let me make another prediction, if the US were to fall out diplomatically with India tomorrow, still the US NRI’s would take the stand of the US, not India.

    Bobby Reply:

    One more thing di ck head….

    “While you admire most things Pakistani, you would object to Hindus here emulating Pakistanis in their minority management methodologies, I am sure..”

    Hindus do not own India, get that straight into your pea sized brain. So fascists like you may rave and rant as much as you wish but the fact remains, that the constitution of India gives equal rights to hindus and muslims, and indeed every body else, so you might wish to “manage” minorities, thankfully you cant. Got it A ss hole?

    “David Headley being tried in the US is perhaps for the better…” Yes thats what “apologists for the powerful”, like you will say after getting kicked in the butt by your master.

    “You know as well as I do that Pakistan is not India…”
    well I d iots like you are trying very hard to make sure that India does become a Pakistan very soon.

    In any case, Pakistan may not be India, but a look at the HDI released by the UN will tell you that India is not paradise either.

    moon Reply:

    I don’t gain much from the US. ; )

    And you think Pakistan is acting against Taliban because of the US phone call? And you calling ME a loon? :D Pakistan is acting against Taliban for fear of losing its own territory. Because the chickens have come home to roost…not because of that one magical phone call you are obsessed with. If phone calls were all it took, Pakistan would not be brandishing the threat of nuclear war with India every time there was a disagreement on something…

    If the US had that much control over Pakistan, then the West would not be arresting youth indoctrinated on **** soil every second day. After all, their own interests are at stake here, so they would have done their best to contain the terror hydra.

    And withholding aid to Pakistan, while a tempting offer, has a drawback. India would be facing the same refugee crisis that West Pakistan’s flawed policies in East Pakistan had produced.

    And oh, a diplomatic fallout is a very different thing from sending in armed suicide bombers to blow up civilians. We would have no problems with your support to Pak if we only had a “diplomatic fall out” with Pakistan to deal with…ah, how I crave a diplomatic fallout with them…

    And I don’t have a dick, so the dickhead here is you…or are you, little Bobbittized fellow… ?

    moon Reply:

    So in short, what Bobby is saying is:

    I can admire Pakistan. I love Pakistan. I have no problems with the conditions of minorities in Pakistan. BUT, should you try to show the same love for Pakistan by following their minority management formula, I will call you names. In short, I got two yardsticks for India and Pakistan. And I will never tell Pakistan to give the same rights to Hindus that I have in India. Should you point that out to me, I will rave and rant and behave like a rude little ******

    I got nothing more to say to you. I rest my case.

    Bobby Reply:

    “And I don’t have a dick, so the dickhead here is you…or are you, little Bobbittized fellow… ?…”

    Yes you have one..thats the one on top of your neck.

    “And you think Pakistan is acting against Taliban because of the US phone call? ..”

    Yes, if you knew your facts right, Paksitan went against its long time friend the Taliban regime in Afghanistan almost overnight, thanks to one one phone call from the US gov. after 9/11. It had to choose between “getting bombed to stone age” and allying against the Taliban.

    “If the US had that much control over Pakistan, then the West would not be arresting youth indoctrinated on **** soil every second day…”

    Yes trained in radical muslim madarsas, in a Islamized Pakistan, which incidently you forgot to mention, happened under Zia ul haq, helped both arms wise and money wise by the the benign US government of that time, as a matter of policy. So indeed “the chickens have come home to roost”.

    “We would have no problems with your support to Pak if we only had a “diplomatic fall out” with Pakistan”

    Well nuts like you (with a dick in the wrong place), have problem if someone even supports a pakistan team, leave alone a diplomatic fall out. Your “tests of loyality” involve whether someone is supporting the Indian team, has Indian names, marries Indians only, etc…. so compared to that a diplomatic fall out is much worse….

    Hypocrites like you would run for greener pastures at the drop of a hat, so you should be the last person to test others loyality.

    moon Reply:

    And one more thing…this is addressed to Zia Haq, not this virulent little Bobbittized fellow here.

    Ever asked your Pakistani friends why they named their missiles Ghauri and Ghazni? Does no Muslim find that reprehensible? I mean, one Babri mosque was all it took to start plotting “revenge”, and no one ever talks about the Somnaths and the Nalandas in India’s 1000 years of Muslim rule. If we renamed Agni as Narendra Modi, all hell would break loose.

    Again, as long as some people have two yardsticks to measure what is right for Hindus and for Muslims, real peace will never be realized.

    Bobby Reply:

    “I rest my case”

    listen kiddo, you dont have a case in the first place, and you know it very well.

    “And I will never tell Pakistan to give the same rights to Hindus that I have in India”

    Pakistan is not my maternal uncle, that it will listen to what I have to say. OK? So Indians, we should try to not make India, what Pakistan is.

    Your arguments remind me of my school days. In standard one, we were once detained in school and asked to write a report, as to why we were all shouting so much in class…and all of us wrote, “that every one was shouting so I also shouted…”. The head master asked us, if every one jumps into the well, woul you too?

    Thats what you should think about also. If pakistan treats its minoroties badly,does that mean India should do it too? Is pakistan the standard you want to follow? If pakistan passes a anti-woman law tomorrow, would you demand it to be passed in India as well? What kind of logic is that?

    moon Reply:

    “Pakistan is not my maternal uncle, that it will listen to what I have to say. ”

    Yes, in the course of the day, you can show all your love to Pakistan, but the moment we talk about equal rights for minorities, suddenly Pakistan becomes a stranger to you. What manner of blow hot-blow cold love is that?

    “If pakistan treats its minoroties badly,does that mean India should do it too? Is pakistan the standard you want to follow? If pakistan passes a anti-woman law tomorrow, would you demand it to be passed in India as well? What kind of logic is that?”

    Bingo! At least you finally admitted that Pakistan treats its minorities badly. But Zia still claims to love this very Pakistan and he thinks it is his RIGHT to love Pakistan without anyone ever raising such uncomfortable questions. Zia sees no wrong in how Pakistani Hindus are treated, as long as Indian Muslims are given their rights. Zia will not lift a finger or wield his influence over his “loving” neighbors to make sure that the oppressed there are treated better. Indeed, he even justifies this love by making groundless accusations against India. If your neighbor treats you badly simply by reason of religion, and Zia loves and defends the actions of your neighbor by saying the fault is yours, would you really trust Zia or become his dearest pal, ever?

    If you can expect the US to dictate terms to Pakistan, why not have the Indian Muslims putting the same pressure on Pak, since there is such a love fest going on between them right now? Or is the US more beloved of Pakistani Muslims than Indian Muslims are? In that case, is ZIa involved in a one-sided love affair with Pakistan?

    Bobby Reply:

    “Yes, in the course of the day, you can show all your love to Pakistan…”

    Like when?

    “Bingo! At least you finally admitted that Pakistan treats its minorities badly…”

    You are the one who are bringing in Pakistan into everything. I was reacting to your comments on how Indian muslims should be treated. Neither Zia not I am responsible for what is happening in Pakistan. Firstly you have wrongly assumed that I am a muslim, but never mind that…all religions are equally ****** so it doesnot matter that much.

    Your pointing towards the faults in Pakistani society, is like a person who is covered in shit till her waist and laughing at someone else who is covered in shit to her neck.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ mullah Babaruddin ghauri ghazni taimur abdali nadir mughal

    Why are u hiding your identity ?

    Do i need to tell people that you are a deoband eduacted potential sucicide bomber of taliban..

    Do i need to bring out the old post by you where you claim to be muslim and atheist ( although both are contradictory ) ?

    Akash Reply:

    Bobby,
    Did your visa to US get refused? It happens, but you don’t have to be so bitter. Even the worst detractors of US, including Bin Laden, would have a hard time convincing people(and themselves) that US is ultimately responsible for all the mischief that is happening in India. You do Pakistanis a great disservice by implying that they are dumb automatons at service of US Inc. US doesn’t wield as much influence on Pakistan as you think. If that was the case, it must require a high level of lunacy to continue their operations in Afghanistan when all they need to do is just pull up Pakistan to stop Taliban, and all the problems end there and then. I agree with you, however, that we do not have to ape Pakistan. I mean, c’mon guys we can have better role models.

    Bobby Reply:

    @Akash,

    “when all they need to do is just pull up Pakistan to stop Taliban”

    They could not stop the Taliban, but they could stop Pakistan and reverse its long standing support to the Taliban, almost overnight….. I am sure you understandthe difference between the two statements.

    @ Sanjeev

    “Do i need to bring out the old post by you where you claim to be muslim and atheist”

    Can you please show any post where I have claimed to be a muslim?

    You are a born fraud, and you have proved it many times before, you are doing the same again.

  • Mohan

    Great article Zia. Let politics be politics. Let people be people. Life goes on. If they’re truly in love and want to get married – congratulations and good luck to them.
    With respect to common indians and pakistanis getting along well; just get out of the subcontinent and you’ll see glimpses of that. True, there are conflicts but not just because one is indian and one a pakistani. Mostly, nationality is not even an issue. Life’s short. Do what makes you happy!

    [Reply]

    Mohan Kapur Reply:

    I strongly disagree with the statement that Indian intelligence agency sponsor act of terror in Pakistan. There is hell of a difference between RWA and ISI.
    RWA is much more transparent and promote the stated Indian foreign policy and work within that parameter. ISI is rough agency and work under the millitary. If you take the global press, there is not a single story saying that RWA is behind any terror acts. There are press stories about ISI every date and across all spectrum of the world.

    [Reply]

    Dr.C.S.RANGARAJAN Reply:

    There exists no malice between an individual non-Muslim of India and an individual Muslim of Pakistan. The relationships between the Muslims of Pakistan and the non-Muslims of India are cordial and are free from any animosity. Caught in the whirlpool of politics, the majority of the people belonging to these two countries are silent spectators, who know not how to make the relationship more and more visible to the rest of the World. A united India and Pakistan can forge ahead and guarantee a higher per capita quality of life.

    [Reply]

    Atta Reply:

    I agree with you Zia, government to government tasks and attitudes are different, and they would always try to play politics, hatred and violence, rather real peace and stability. Both intelligence agencies operate in interest of country (as obvious) and sponsor terrorism in other one (bitter reality, but is). The best way to eradicate this is to fill up gap between people, and to improve people of people contact, and that way only it would help new generation to live in better world then what is established by us now..

    Many Congratulations to Shoaib and Sania (S&S). May their marriage bring happiness!

    Sasank Reply:

    Stop the nonsense.

    A few individual Pakistanis coming to India for medical treatment or a team of Pakistani intellectuals/media people from Pakistan may criticize their government over the 26/11 attacks in Bombay, but the common people in Pakistan believe that the 26/11 attacks were carried out by RAW. They were staged by the Indian government so that India can blame Pakistan over it. If you don’t believe this, please read the report of this journalist who lived in Pakistan http://www.thehindu.com/2010/03/20/stories/2010032056641300.htm

    Sasank Reply:

    This is so untrue.

    The common pakistani believes that RAW was the cause of 26/11.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    And so do you with every bomb blast in India,blame Pakistan. Go read and you will find! Its a dirty business but thats how things go.

    Sasank Reply:

    Accha. So who is blowing up Pune, Mumbai etc. ?

    Is it people like you from SIMI or the madrassas ?

    Or is it RAW ?

    Or perhaps ISI ?

    India is a democracy man. A democracy doesnt blow bombs on its own soil. grow up man.

    MAK Reply:

    As a Pakistani, I pity Indian Muslims. They are so docile and so peaceful and yet the Hindus can’t stand them. It is terribly sad to be a muslim in India. How so they go on day after day, living in quiet desperation. With all due respect to Indians, I am glad that we went separate ways because the visceral hate that Hindus openly display for their Muslim countrymen is truly breath-taking.

    raman Reply:

    I am too. As there are enough problems between Hindu – muslim and it would have been disastrous to have problems and fightings between shia and sunni muslim in India. Plus Taliban factor……..Thanks

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ raman

    wake from your slumber you moron. Hindus infact are the most tolerant of all the religious communities in the world. any problem between the Hindus and Muslims has been instigated by the Muslims only, please note!! the Shia -Sunni conflict is their internal matter and should be none of our business. get a life, please

    raman Reply:

    @ Paritosh

    No *******,

    It would have not been their internal matter, if Pakistan were not created.. Did I say Hindus are intolerant?

    And r u saying there r no problems between hindu- muslim community…..r u like ostrich?

    moon Reply:

    Yes, you are right. Hindus are so bad. Hindu businessmen collect funds to support a Hindu jihad in Pakistan’s Kashmir. Kasab is Hindu. The Lashkars and SIMIs are Hindu organizations. Taliban is Hindu too. The people blowing themselves up in Peshawar and Lahore these days are also Hindu. The minority community girls being kidnapped in Pakistan and converted and forcibly married are victims of Hindu conspiracy. The Indian constitution has special blasphemy laws to target Muslims. It does not allow Muslims any assistance with Haj, but reserves all subsidies for Hindus going to Mansarovar. And of course, Pakistan has special quotas for jobs for Hindus and Christians.

    So really, I am very very sorry for the pitiable condition of Muslims in India, when Hindus and Buddhists in Pakistan are doing so well and living in truly egalitarian conditions.

    You do not know the meaning of visceral hate, do you?

    Sasank Reply:

    LOL @ you moon. I cant argue with you.

    Mr. MAK, indian muslims are from docile.

    If you knew some UP muslims, you would know.

    Dont you know the Moplah riots of 1921 ? That is enough proof of their “docile nature”

    Sasank Reply:

    Yeah beheaded by talibans and so forth.,

    ramesh Reply:

    it is nothing but afilthy tradition that sanctions use of naked terror against others. do not worry about sania,one less for us to worry and one more for the pak qom.by creation of bangaladesh the two nation theory of qom has failed and see how they treat each other in pak,and world over.

    Sasank Reply:

    yeah. pakistan would have broken up long ago if it werent for their control of afghanistan.

    Sasank Reply:

    lol sorry moon,

    I didnt get the sarcasm.

    Paritosh Reply:

    @MAK

    mr p@kee pseudo secular mullah , rather than talking about the condition of Muslims in India please lets talk of the condition of Hindus in Pakistan. every day some or the other atrocity is inflicted on the local Hindus. on the other hand Muslims in India are more safe than Muslims in Pakistan. we have been tolerating your uncivilized brethren since the last 6 decades and you ignorant p@kees have your own presumptions.
    the condition of minorities in Pakistan is one of the worst in the world

    Sasank Reply:

    you dumbwit, a pakistani believing that RAW is the cause of balochistan

    and a pakistani believing that RAW is the cause of mumbai

    IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

    Sasank Reply:

    but again there is no point arguing since you are a porkistani.

    meena Reply:

    I wonder why despite being beautiful, talented and of course very very rich, no Indian man showed any interest in her?

    vikram Reply:

    r u kidding me .. no man showed interest !!!!! why do u think sania is so famous .. she has a mean forehand and a bit successful career but she would not have been that famous if not for her really hot looks

    Sasank Reply:

    yeah, saina nehwal is a ten times more talented. only thing is she isnt that hot.

    Rajeev Reply:

    C’mon..Saina is far better looking than Sania. Sania’s face is so OILY..frankly speaking, I get turned off looking at her oily face.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    “you dumbwit, a pakistani believing that RAW is the cause of balochistan

    and a pakistani believing that RAW is the cause of mumbai

    IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT.”

    I am able to talk the same tone with you Sasank baita, but thats not how I was brought up. like you believe that every bomb blast in India is caused by ISI. How is different than us beleiving that every trouble in Pakistan is RAW, CIA or Mossad. India’s farce democracy is manufesting it self in Kashmir; among Maoists; in Gujrat where a terrorist who is behind the riots and killing of almost 3000 Muslims has become a CM; ask the sikhs better yet go ask the Christian or your fellow Dalits how they live. Before you give me any lectures on democracy.

    Sasank Reply:

    hell yeah. ask the beheaded sikhs of nwfp.

    Sasank Reply:

    heck. we know how christians like yousuf youhanna (now mohd. yousuf) are converted in pakistan.,

    moon Reply:

    There is EVIDENCE. Big huge heavy folders and tapes with voice recordings of people directing terror strikes across India. None of those voices belong to RAW agents.

    Mohan Reply:

    Majority of Pakistanis (no such thing as Non-Muslim Pakistani) hate India and Hinduism. They resent us because we beat the **** out of them in the Indo-pak wars and we succeeded in liberating Bangladesh. If you think majority of Pakistanis want peace with India, you are mistaken. They want Kashmir – at any cost – because it will salvage their pride.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Very stupid blog !

    Sania is marrying for love. We all should respect that.

    However if Shoaib has tricked Ayesha, don’t you think the law should take its own course?

    Or do you think that she should be sidelined as she is just a Muslim woman and muslim women can be treated as second class citizens because of the special civil code.

    When it comes to Pakistanis, it would help if Muslims from India treat them carefully. After all Pakistan is the evil force which has driven a wedge between Hindus and Muslims in India. I think if Muslims in India curse them more than Hindus after every terror attack, it would help in bridging the divide between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims and ultimately between, India and Pakistan.

    Because Pakistan will get the message that it cannot split India on religious lines.

    Zia, you have been given a special blog called, “they call me Muslim.” Have you ever wondered why nobody needs to write a blog called– “They call me Sikh or They call me Buddhist or they call me Christian.

    All because your community has unfortunately chosen to give more power to some idiots who believe that their religious text is the best and the rest be dammed. This is not my view alone, but also of two other Muslim friends from college. If you chose to follow your present path, I wonder if any change is possible?

    Ultimately religious texts cannot be all powerful in a secular society. Neither can we call ANY religius text perfect nor the priest perfect.

    HIndu dharma is fighting and winning the battle against the evil caste system; but some priests are still bad– like the ichadaari swami. but a hindu can make fun of him and jail him.

    Christianity fought its battles like that on the earth and the sun; the priests and paedophiles still exist and will be punished.

    I Islam, the opposite is happening. The religious texts in spite of so many obnoxious things– like jehad and rights of women– on kafirs — etc etc.. are never challenged.

    Only justified by idiots like Zakir Naik and so many mullhas.

    The priests who preach hatred and killing unfortunately hold power.

    I don’t see any real progress happening.

    Maybe you can make a difference there, rather than trying to justify verything being done in the name of Islam.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    I would love to hear your viewpoint on what I have written…

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @vijay kumar

    Forget Zakir Nayak, even Mr Zia has been unable to find any one of the obnoxious things you claim the religious texts contain.

    Reforming Islam is an extremely difficult challenge. The clue to those challenges lie in the way Islam has defined itself right from the beginning, or USP’s of Islam:

    1. All scriptures have been corrupted, only Koran is pure and is the final version..
    2. All previous scriptures were for specific people for specific times, but Koran is for the entire humanity and valid for all place and all time.

    So no matter what Ulema gives what fatwa against Jihad, as long as the ‘All Time’ and ‘All Place’ validity remains, nothing changes. The All Time – All Place clause essentially means de-contextualization of Koran, so to claim now that some verse are being quoted out of context is absolute nonsense. So for a Muslim to accept that there is something in Koran, which is no more applicable, amounts to questioning the whole purpose of Koranic revelation.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @SKS

    I hope Zia tries to see beyond the religious text. Otherwise there is no point of this blog.

    It is all right to keep saying that the jihadis and the mullahas are misusing Islam. That isgreat. But how do you prevent that?

    THe only way is to stipulate common civil laws which overule laws written in texts which are open to misinterpretation by ********. That is the only way forward.

    Sasank Reply:

    First Law of Islam : The Laws are immutable. (meaning, not amendable)

    No wonder they are such ********.

    Sasank Reply:

    Yeah unless Zia is willing to accept amendments to his holy book, there is no point debating with him.

    Hinduism wouldnt have been what it is today if it werent for the “Amendments” carried out by Adi Shankaracharya, Vivekananda etc.

    Bobby Reply:

    I would agree with Zia, that its likely that Indian agencies are involved in terror activities abroad. Already its a known fact that they had a role in helping up the LTTE in Srilanka in the 80’s. Intelligence agencies around the world are involved in terror acts. The CIA, MOSSAD and the ISI are the more notorious ones, because they are all supported by the US agencies.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    stop concealing your identity you moslem/thamizh cult *****.

    india helping the ltte would have had counter productive consequences for it in TN. so your logic sucks.

    sanjeev Reply:

    get lost you gaddar

    pack your bag and shift to NWFP…

    @$$HOLE

    Zia Haq Reply:

    @ Bobby
    hi! Mental diseases can still be cured. Mentality cannot. This regarding your comment to “nutcase” Sanjeev.

    Sasank Reply:

    yeah your fundamental belief that hindus are lesser beings will never change. It is codified in the poetry book of maha madda.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Zia

    I doubt muslims have capability to do that :)

    continue your multiplication at geometrical progression ..

    You people have expertise in that ..:)

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Zia

    This shows a mullah will always support a mullah..

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Come on Mohan you sound so innocent or are you naive too. ISI does a great job on keeping a check on you guys and I am sure RAW does the same. Thats what they all do, its their job. Read RAW’s role in small island called Sri Lanka, where Tamil terrorist created havoc in that paradise island, with active support of India. And how can we forget East Pakistan and Bukti Banni.

    Sticking to the topic on hand, it is Sania’s choice and we wish her best of luck. Adnan Sami Khan lives in Mumbai, and nobody in Pakistan lost sleep over that guy either. He is a great singer son’t you think but thats his choice.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    If RAW did the same, then there would be international outrage.

    so stop thinking at right angles you dumb wit.

    Sasank Reply:

    Come on , you revealed your pakistani identity. so there is no point arguing. I would rather delete my comment.

    moon Reply:

    Since you know so much about Mukti Bahini (THIS is how it is spelled), you probably also know about the genocide carried on by the Pakistan army against the Bangladeshis. Otherwise, why would 10 million Muslim Bangladeshis emigrate to India, than live under the rule of Muslim West Pakistan? Name ONE Hindu who preferred to go to Pakistan to escape tyranny in India. That in itself shows the difference between Pakistan and India.

    vivek Reply:

    Reality has many dimensions; the writer has picked on just one. Misleading to say the least.

    [Reply]

    MAK Reply:

    Fail to understand why Indian Muslims are so insecure in their own country that they have to reflexively bash Pakistan to prove their credentials. I thank my lucky stars that I don’t have to look over my shoulders in my own land in Pakistan. It is true that Hindus have scorned and marginalized Indian Muslims partially due to Pakistan-India conflict but that is only small part of the whole story. Hindus have deep resentment of Muslims and some of that resentment has valid ground but a lot of it has to do with their unhealthy sense-of-self.

    [Reply]

    VIjay Shah Reply:

    “Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians have never been strangers nor will they ever be”… True. But Sania Mirza and Shoaid Malik are NOT oridnary Indian and Pakistani!

    Pakistan as a nation should stop the double role…. palying diplomacy on one side and supporting terrorism and fundamentalism on the other side. This is very clear. It is clear to many pakistanis too now. but a certain per centage of the military, establishment and fanatic population want the fight against India to continue in every front – proxy or otherwise.

    26/11 as an event is symbolic. But more important than 26/11 is the mindset created among the youngters in Pakistan by the Government and the education (or lack of it) given in the schools….

    History of the nation is taught in a distorted way… not just the partition… but even the last 2000 year old history!!! That is the tragedy……

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Vijay Shah look in the mirror, it might help you.

    Sasank Reply:

    Cut your beard and your bollocks.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Sasank when are you going to start making sense

    Sasank Reply:

    When you disavow maha madda’s poetry book.

    Sasank Reply:

    Give me a break will ya ?

    UP Muslims are the most fundamentalist muslims in India.
    And it is they who made these statements.

    I can assure you that these muslims are not afraid of anything. They openly make anti-india speeches during elections. But no one prosecutes them. Thats because the Mulayams Singhs, the Lalu Prasads, the Mayawati’s are strongly behind them.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Good luck to sania.

    BUT

    A few individual Pakistanis coming to India for medical treatment or a team of Pakistani intellectuals/media people from Pakistan may criticize their government over the 26/11 attacks in Bombay, but the common people in Pakistan believe that the 26/11 attacks were carried out by RAW. They were staged by the Indian government so that India can blame Pakistan over it. If you don’t believe this, please read the report of this journalist who lived in Pakistan http://www.thehindu.com/2010/03/20/stories/2010032056641300.htm

    [Reply]

  • raman

    hehehe…………

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Zia, I hope you drank a glass of water after Mitra’s reply.

    I have no hatred towards Pakistan. But when their common people think that 26/11 is the work of Indian agencies, then there is no point befriending them. If you had lost your kin in that attacks and somebody told you it wasnt committed by Pakistan, then that would have been good for your reasoning abilities. When they blame us for their water problems. there is no point befriending them.

    It just doesnt work.

    Asma Jahangir is a nobody. She has no influence whatsoever. Her opinion doesnot matter one bit.

    You are just another fundamentalist for approving the use of burqa. You are a fundamentalist for opposing birth control.

    The real test for Muslims is kerala. Unlike the rest of India, Kerala muslims are very advanced and have good jobs. But they are getting more conservative. There have been reports of their violent attacks on Hindus. If in another 10 years, they massacre Hindus, then that will be enough proof of Islam’s violent and intolerant nature.

    [Reply]

  • Shishir Shivhare

    Again, I do not want it to sound typifying all Indian muslims, but the author is really biased in this article.”Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. ” This baseless claim of Pakistan is supported by views expressed in the HT editorial, its sad for me.

    Celebrities and sportspersons like Sachin and Sania are national icons, they represent the people of the country. Their actions should be responsible and in the interest of the country. For a country that has back stabbed and bleeded India for so long, should Sania as a girl representing India marry Shoaib, an ex-captain of Pakistani cricket team?

    [Reply]

  • Syed Raza Ali

    I have been living in California for the last 30 years. Both me and my wife are from Pakistan Punjab. Our children were born here. Now my 28 years old son is getting married to a Indian girl who, like him, was also born here but her parent came from Gujrat In India. Not exactly same as Sania Mirza and Shoib Malik. However, like Sania, she also love my son. They will be tying knots in May. Both are US citizen.

    Let us see what mullahs and Bal Thakry say about this. Our case is not an exceptions. So many younger generations Indo- Pak immegants are getting married togather.I personnaly know a few myself. Remember it is only a first generation of new Us Citizen. How second and third generation will behave we can all guess.

    I being a new Us Citizen will only say this.

    MR. ZARDARI AND MR. SINGH REVE THE BORDER.

    [Reply]

    Syed Raza Ali Reply:

    MR. ZARDARI AND MR. SINGH REEMOVE THE BORDER.

    [Reply]

    Mitra Reply:

    Some points about this post

    1. As you say, some members of the lunatic Hindu right will object to their marriage. From here you jumped to say that “Her ablity to play for India could be under cloud”. This is a rather funny and absurd overstatement- the Hindu lunatic fringe does not have that much power to come anywhere close to this. Some comment by Shivsena (even they later retracted it) and Bajrang Dal is all we heard. Even BJP’s reaction was polite and courteous.

    2. A few individual Pakistanis coming to India for medical treatment or a team of Pakistani intellectuals/media people from Pakistan may criticize their government over the 26/11 attacks in Bombay, but the common people in Pakistan believe that the 26/11 attacks were carried out by RAW. They were staged by the Indian government so that India can blame Pakistan over it. If you don’t believe this, please read the report of this journalist who lived in Pakistan http://www.thehindu.com/2010/03/20/stories/2010032056641300.htm
    The Pakistani people are not in general critical of their governments attempts to encourage/sponsor cross-border terrorism in India, as you wrongly imply. Immediately after the 26/11 attacks I was watching a conservative Pakistani TV channel which was saying that the attacks were a Hindu/Zionist/CIA conspiracy to defame Pakistan! Unfortunately, those kinds of views have more support inside Pakistan than the views of Asma Jahangir.

    3. You believe that Indian intelligence agencies too sponsor terrorism in Pakistan. I respect your beliefs. However the question is not what you or me or a Pakistani believes- the question is what kind of evidence is there of this. Researchers in universities and thinktanks in USA/UK/Canada/Europe who have studied these conflicts in great detail don’t believe there is much evidence of Indian involvement in terrorist violence in Balochistan or other parts of Pakistan. You are making a blanket accusation against Indian intelligence agencies of fomenting terrorism inside Pakistan withou much evidence- based on your beliefs.

    4. I don’t think your solicituide for Pakistan or Pakistanis is necessarily due to your religion- many bleeding heart (Hindu) Indian liberals also try to be quite naive and sentimental about Pakistan (as if that would solve our political problems or will prevent the Pakistani Army from sending trained terrorists to kill people in India)- so maybe you are just one of them. However, when we discuss the retrograde aspects of Indian Muslim personal law, your liberalism immidiately deserts you! Isn’t that (sort of) interesting?

    5. Note that I have never questioned your loyalty to India or anything of the sort- that kind of questioning has no place in civilized political discussions- people have the right to hold different opinions. I believe that you can be a person who is sympathetic to Pakistan or Pakistanis and wish the best for them and still be loyal to India.

    [Reply]

    shiney Reply:

    I think this is a brilliant, incisive comment on this article. I am not sure of how many could put their point across better.
    The last time i read this blog was when the author wrote about burkhas and how they are according to him a sign of individual liberties and had vowed never to ever read this blog, however could not resist reading this wonderful reply to the blog.

    To the author of this blog – Dear Sir, u seem to be suffering from some kind of a delusion about the powers enjoyed by so called hindu fringe groups. I am sure in the next article, you would be blaming the mental pressure applied by hindu fringe groups as being the reason for Sania’s non-performance on tennis courts, (though the fact is she seemed to have lost her focus on tennis long long ago).
    However, what i also find funny is the way u have built up the article in the beginning talking about Sania’s thought process being clear etc etc., Either we need to change the definition of clarity or ur not aware of its meaning, because a person who 6months ago went in for a grand engagement, calls it off and within a month or two is announcing marriage to another isnt my example of clear, courageous thinking. Also, spare a thought for the girl who claims to have been cheated by ur beloved groom to be. Thank god, she is a muslim, otherwise u wud have claimed this to be a hindu lunatic fringe’s conspiracy :) . Right? And according to you, since Sania is courageous because she can ride roughshod on a commoner, after all she is a celebrity, where as the other at the most can only get public sympathy. Right?
    Funny that u believe India sponsors terrorism. I wish beliefs of esteemed journalists like urselves are enough to prove the truth, im sure India would have won hands down if such things were decided based on a opinion poll of journalists. Your entire article is a symptom of the disease that has afflicted the so called progressive muslim society in this country. Blame all your problems on others, spread canards and lies and never look for a solution.
    Believe me, i really dont care if Sania and Shoaib marry or they dont or they can do whatever they like to with their lives…….but extrapolating an article on this marriage to india supporting terror in pak, is downright stupid and ridiculous and thats what really hurts.

    Ananta Bhagwat Reply:

    I agree with this 5-point Mitra. Well said!

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Mitra

    Very well said, although I am slightly confused, are you the same Mitra who has commented on Zia’s blogs earlier also?

    From what I remember, in past you have accused many of the commentators of anti-muslim bigotry (justifiably at times, but not always, imo). Don’t get me wrong, I see that you are talking about Pakistanis and as such one can’t call it a radical departure from your earlier criticism of anti-muslim bigotry, but it is still a pleasant surprise. Because love for Pakistanis, opposing Anti-Muslim bigotry (often by way of Hindutva bashing), questioning India’s moral position on Kashmir etc come as a package deal, If you take one, you take all. (reverse is not always true, again, imo).

    So I have to admit, that your statements show a clarity (which is to see Pakistan and Indian Muslims separately) which is quite unusual nowadays. Or it could be sign of the enlightening journey you have commenced recently and in that case I would expect a rational individual who has bothered to look into the facts (not what the TVs and Newspapers present us with) with an open mind to reach a point not very far from I stand today (which in your opinion amounted to anti-muslim bigotry but for me it is simply a refusal to close my eyes when an ugly reality shows up).

    All my guesses could be way off the mark, in which case, apologies in advance. Clearly, there is nothing in your comment that I don’t agree with.

    Mitra Reply:

    Yes, I am the same Mitra (!), to answer your first question. I don’t give my first name – as I teach in an university and have a website- I am afraid I will be harassed by Hindu nationalist vandals. Whenever I visit Zia’s blog, I am so struck by the vulgar
    anti-Muslim bigotry reflected in a majority of the comments, that I want to condemn that first. This does not mean I agree with everything Zia says. In fact, I have often disagreed with Zia-but he seems like a genuinely decent guy- which is more than what you can say about the majority of the commentators here. (unfortunately!).

    All thinking individuals should be against what you called the “package deal” approach. For example, every decent human being must criticize anti-Muslim (or anti-Hindu or anti-Jewish or whatever) bigotry. I am not sure why that should mean that I am partial to Pakistani terrorists!

    But I think I know what you mean – there is a little too much polarization in this debate in India. There are people (like Shabnam Hashmi and others) who will defend M.F Hussien but will not show equal passion while defending Taslima Nasreen and so on. They will defend equal rights for women, but somehow want to change the topic if anyone asks tough questions about Muslim personal laws that are anti-women. But I think this is changing – The Hindu, which is a left-wing newspaper, ran an entire editorial staunchly defending Taslima Nasreen, the Indian Express sponsors a debate on Muslim personal laws where liberal and well educated Indian Muslims write columns demanding reform in Muslim personal law and slamming the mullahs.

    Having said all this, I must add that the Hinduvta movement, in my opinion, is the most dangerous force in Indian politics today. I am not saying there is no fundamentalism or extremism among Muslims (there is obviously a lot of it, I still remember A.R Antulays shocking comments after the 26/11 attacks), but the Hindus are the clear majority in India and extremism among them can tear apart the fabric of the country. Also, the police and the army are aggressively fighting Islamic extremism and trying to make sure that India is safe, but Hindu extremists belonging to organizations like Bajrang Dal/Shivsena/RSS/VHP are being given a free hand. The Gujarat riots is probably the first time that many activists of these organizations are being prosecuted for the violence that they inflicted on innocent Muslims, thanks to the Supreme Court.

    In my view, Zia’s opinions are sometimes on the conservative (for want of a better word) side. Many thoughtful liberals within the Muslim community will disagree with Zia.

    In conclusion, it is one thing to defend liberal values- it is quite another to be politically correct or to be so eager not to appear Islamophobic that you actually end up defending Islamic fanaticism! My goal is the former. (When I say “liberal values” – I mean the fundamental political values on which the Indian Constiution is based). In India, on one side you have the crude anti-Muslim bigotry of the Hindu right, on the other side you have the politically correct left/liberal media, large sections of which will often try to discount or soft-pedal issues related to Islamic conservatism or fanaticism- between these two extremes, there is less room for balanced discussions.

    Sasank Reply:

    I have to admire Mitra.

    Also Mitra, allow me to share my views on Muslim fundamentalism with you.

    I personally dont believe in interfering with muslim personal law, or forcibly stamping our values on the moslems.

    Moslems are like a time bomb. And I am not sure it will explode.

    WHEN PUSH CAME TO SHOVE, in Calcutta in 1947, the Moslems thought they were a superior race and tried to drive away Hindus from Cal so that they could merge with Bangladesh.

    THE REAL TEST FOR MOSLEMS is Kerala. Yes. The state with the most prosperous muslims. Muslims who are represented in civil service. Muslim merchants who are successful. A historically liberal environment. Absence of major riots. “Soft” Hindus.
    You would expect the moslems to be moderate in this state. But it turns out that they are turning more and more conservative and intolerant every day.

    WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE in KERALA, I fear that Hindus will be completely driven out of Kerala . (as happened during the Moplah riots of 1921) If the most moderate muslims of india can do it, then god save muslims.

    Vamsi Reply:

    Perfect reply Mr.Mitra..

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Mitra

    I was also a liberal and always used to side with muslims. As that was what i learnt during my university study in a residential university in delhi, as there was salubrious climate over there.

    But what i saw after reading the views of Zia and co since last 14 months…my secularism (indian style ) fade away… and result…..

    I stated calling the spade …a spade and one of muslim friend (studied with me in delhi) have started calling me..that i have been brainwashed by RSS/VHP.

    I fear Mitra will also be labelled a hindu fanatic by Zia and company.

    btw kudos to Mitra…that atleast he thinks rationally….which i admire (i myself couldn’t be rational coz its the only way muslims can be dealt with ).

    Muslims don’t understand morality …etc…because they have principle of “Taqiya”

    btw Zia is doing good service to india…atleast he is awakening non muslims from the deep slumber….of ignorance about the religion of peace :)

    Once they awake and know of true face of religion of peace…then the problem will be solved

    Paritosh Reply:

    to all

    pseudo secularists and peaceniks like Mitra are the biggest enemies of this nation than the p@kees

    Sasank Reply:

    You are wrong. Mitra bashes extremists on both sides.

    Zia Haq Reply:

    @ Mitra:

    Hi,

    1) Sania’s ability to play can indeed be affected. You can’t breathe easy when under threats. Fanatics can restrict her movements and stifle her. Remember Monica Seles, the tennis star who was stabbed by a lunatic. One the one hand, you call the Hindutva movement (in a separate post) the most dangerous force. On the other, you say it is not powerful enough. I find a contradiction.

    2) Ordinary Pakistanis and Indian are not just friendly but very warm towards each other. When a Pakistani and Indian meet they are not burdened by the baggage of the debatable part of Indo-Pak history. On the contrary, there is a special feeling of “apna pan” (I can’t find an English word that conveys a similar, corresponding nuanced meaning). Moreover, I strongly believe the outstanding Indo-Pak disputes should not be allowed hold people-to-people relations hostage. There are many people who have this view, Kuldip Nayar being one of them. I believe that a stronger Pakistan is in India’s interests. By a stronger Pakistan, I mean stronger democratic institutions, not a strong Pakistani military or the notorious ISI. In fact, the less control the military establishment there has on Pakistan’s government, the better. That, unfortunately, isn’t the case.

    3) Some commentators on this blog have already answered this question. The role of India’s external agencies in propping up the LTTE is well known. There is a clear mandate for our external agencies to propose strategies to destabilize countries hostile to India. (Bet, you didn’t know that.) So, there is reasonable suspicion that RAW might after all have a hand in some terror acts in Pakistan. However, importantly, I am not judgmental about all this. Please re-read the sentence: “governments being governments and politics being politics.” Of course, RAW is no match to ISI, much more notorious. International think tanks focus more on Mossad, ISI, CIA because issues surrounding them are more relevant to them.

    4) Now for the liberal-conservative issue, which I think is the most interesting of all the 5 or so points you have raised. I refuse to fall in that trap. In the religious context, I am neither a liberal Muslim nor a conservative Muslim. I do not think there is/can be a liberal Muslim or a conservative Muslim. Or for that matter, a fundamentalist Muslim versus liberal Muslim. There can only be a bad Muslim and a good Muslim, largely synonymous with a good human being and a bad human being.

    I am not a high-brow intellectual. I am, by nature, concerned with basic issues. And as far the Muslim personal laws are concerned, I haven’t yet expressed any views one way or the other or even addressed the subject so far. So, what is the basis of you opinion?

    Additionally, if you must put me in a box, then I would be happy to carry the tag of a “Fundamentalist Muslim”. Because, my understanding of a fundamentalist is not the same as being radical. For me, in the religious context, a FUNDAMENTALIST is someone who believes in the FUNDAMENTALS of his/her religion. This is a doctrine I have developed for myself. The fundamentals of Hinduism are liberation (moksha) of the true-self (atman) and the belief that one is responsible for one’s actions. The fundamentals of Islam are belief in one God — monotheism — and Judgment Day, when one will be accountable for one’s actions. What’s wrong with being a fundamentalist Hindu or Muslim? Liberals have hijacked the linguistics of politics and religion, and distorted their meanings.

    5) I thank you for giving me this opportunity to explain my position and ideas. They aren’t very lofty or high-brow, as I have said. They are very basic.

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Zia
    You say that ‘Kuldip Nayar being one of them’

    Quoting out of context, I Agree.!!

    If Mr Mitra was shocked with Mr Antuley, let us what he has to say about Mr Nayar. Unlike Mr Antuley, who only sought an enquiry on Karkare, Mr Nayar has announced the result all over the world, leaving not an iota of doubt:

    Here he is “More worrisome are the Hindu extremists rearing their head. The murder of police officer Hemant Karkare, who was probing the Malegaon blasts, was the doing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Bajrang Dal”
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-kuldip-nayar-politics-of-terrorism-hs-01

    So no surprise that you had to quote Mr Nayar

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Zia says

    ‘I refuse to fall in that trap. In the religious context, I am neither a liberal Muslim nor a conservative Muslim. I do not think there is/can be a liberal Muslim or a conservative Muslim. Or for that matter, a fundamentalist Muslim versus liberal Muslim’

    Yep No Traps, a Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim, unless ignorant.

    BTW, I thought you wrote some story about how Quran is against bigamy and quoted verses and all and how it is Hindus who are bigamous and not so much the muslims. Remember?

    I also remember you starting the blog with ‘What the clerics never told you’ telling us Jihad is just controlling yourself and nothing to do with War on Unbelievers or something like that? Didn’t you?

    Now it is possible that you know your Islam better than the faculty of AL-Azhar university, but it is difficult to accept that more Muslims understand your Islam rather than Al-Azhar’s.
    There is a book available at http://www.islamicbulletin.com/free_downloads/resources/reliance_complete.pdf). I hope you don’t call it an Islamophobic site.

    About the authenticity of the book, read on
    ‘From a purely academic point of view, this TRANSLATION is SUPERIOR to anything produced by orientalists in the way of translations of major Islamic works’ : President of the International Institute of Islamic Thought, Member of Islamic Fiqh Academy at Jedda, President of the Fiqh Council of North America’ or;

    ‘we certify that the above-mentioned translation corresponds to the Arabic original and conforms to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community’ by Islamic Research Academy, AL-AZHAR (who have also stamped every page of the book with the seal of the department)’

    Give me one good reason, why should this book not be taken seriously, in case of those Muslims who claim they know their Islam and there is nothing for non-muslims to worry.

    Sasank Reply:

    Kuldip Nayar despite his virulent hatred for the Sangh Parivar, is a well meaning person.

    Take a look at this article where he bashes these muslim madarchods.

    http://www.kuldipnayar.com/btl/Gujarat%20remains%20challenge%20to%20secularism.htm

    Rajeev Reply:

    I agree with Zia on all the three major points that he makes in this blog.
    1. Sania marrying Shoaib should be treated as personal matter. Please do not bring country, loyalty etc. in this. This is not the first time Indian and Pakistanis are marrying.
    2. Zia is convinced that RAW is formenting trouble in Pakistan. I totally agree with Zia but I also hold the view that RAW is very incompetent compared to ISI, MOSSAD and CIA. It has not been able to avenge 26/11 and what has it achieved on Balochistan front. Mr.Gujral dented the competence of RAW by dissolving RAW operations in PAK. It is time RAW start working. At the same time India’s internal intelligence is also equally incompetent. How can it not track soft terrorists like ZIA who are working in the guise of journalist.
    3. Zia also believes that Indian muslims should not be apologetic about their soft corner for pakistan. He is right afterall 96% of muslims from India supported pakistan movement and muslim league but chose to stay back in India. The ultimate aim of Indian muslims is to divide India again with the help of Pakistan. This is what Zia is implying now it is upto other non-muslims to see this threat and take counter measures.

    Sasank Reply:

    Kuldip Nayar bashing these fundamentalist muslim madarchods.

    http://www.kuldipnayar.com/btl/Gujarat%20remains%20challenge%20to%20secularism.htm

    Sasank Reply:

    Also, the article was published in a pakistani daily. I tried to search for one in indian newspapers. but couldnt find. so i suspect it wasnt him.

    Sasank Reply:

    1.) That is baseless. Was Shahrukh khan attacked by a stabber . The fact is that celebrities are not stabbed in India. (unlike USA where anyone can be mugged anytime, unless you are living in a posh locality)

    2.) The people maybe friendly. But when the pakis dont believe they were the cause of 26/11, then there is no point befriending them.

    Its like somebody in your colony raping and banging your mom / sissy / wife. And then everybody in your colony believing that someone in your family did it. Would you still be friends with your colony people ? Hahhaa, I hope something like that happens to you and then you will realize the fallacy of your reasoning.

    3.) I hope you are assasinated by RAW. Which I dont think will happen. Unless the gujarat police want you.

    4.) The fundamentals of Islam are
    a.) The Laws of Islam are immutable (not amendable
    b.) All other religionists should be converted or persecuted
    c.) We shall not bow to our motherland or our parents or our teacher. Because there is only one person deserving of respect
    d.) If anyone says “All religions are equal” , then he should be excommunicated.
    e.) The Quran is the word of god and can neither be amended nor re-interpreted.

    If these are the fundamentals, then I dont think there is a liberal muslim. it is an oxymoron. All muslims are jehadis and talibans. Just that some bide their time instead of using weapons.

    Hinduism has been re-interpreted and amended several number of times by Adi Shankaracharya , Vivekananda etc.

    Christianity decided to be more fundamental after the protestant movement.

    5.) If given a chance, every indian muslim will take citizenship of gulf countries.

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Sasank
    Please do not use this kind of language. You can convey your opinions without the abuses

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    A letter that appeared in Hindustan Times today by one Manik Prabhu, which is nothing but the truth.

    Manik Prabhu 2 hours ago

    BAAJRA LAAO.

    BAAJRA… BAAJRA.. BAAJRA.. Maha Siddiki ko Bajra daalo. Maha Siddiqui is a real person (age 42, weight : 250 kgs). Vice Principal, Hala International School, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. (Tel : 00966 671 5531 / 5543). Her sister NAGHMA Siddiqui has divorced twice too., and is now with her 3rd husband in Hyderabad. Maha suffers from a personality disorder (Dual-Personality). “AYESHA” is her alter-ego. A slim girl, as beautiful as Beyonce Knowles !

    “Ayesha” is a fictional character that Maha Siddiqui created in her mind. With the help of pics of another girl (Huma / XYZ) she duped Shoaib Akhtar into a relationship. First talk., then invitation (and disappearance)., and slowly like a vaccum cleaner., she pulled the man in. Remember at the start of the relationship, the age of Shoaib Malik is around 18-20. Whereas., Maha Siddiqui must have been 34 (at the time of the start of the relationship). 34 v/s. 18. If i were the lawyer for Shoaib Malik (who may not be an angel., but in this case is innocent), i will stress this factor very severely.

    In 10 years, it seems Shoaib met Maha but his end goal is to reach “AYESHA” the Beyonce Knowles character created by Maha. Shoaib’s manzil was “Ayesha” which was a fictional character. Maha comes into the picture sometimes as Aunt / Sister., only to butter Shoaib into sweet talk., and then has the pics photographed. If you look at the pic., yo u will realise Shoaib is standing so respectfully. A husband doesnt stand like THAT with his wife. Study their faces.

    Why on earth would a 18 yr old fall for a 36 year old Vice Principal of Hala Intl School jeddah weighint 250 kgs ? Is this logical. Whereas a 36 yr old Vice Principal CAN fall in love with a cute slim hot looking 18 yr old dude ! Reminds me of Lady Chatterly’s Lover ! Maha used to work at Hala International School. I bet she took the pics of a beautiful girl-student studiying in “A” levels (Intermediate in Indian parlance)… she took hundreds of pics of that girl., and presented it to Shoaib as her creation “AYESHA”.

    SHOAIB MUST NOW PRESENT THOSE PICS (OF THE FICTIONAL AYESHA) to the POLICE AND MEDIA. This is clinching evidence. Those pics must now be made public., for the truth to come out.

    Maha’s father says : “Shoaib and the Pak Team visited Hyd., and in fact it was a Wedding Reception”. Mr. Siddiqui., in a wedding reception., the Groom (Doolha) does not wear a “Track Suit”. OK. Shoaib ko phansaya gaya hai. Shoaib has been trapped.

    Fault of Shoaib : He is from a poor family. He is uneducated. He did not understand the gravity of the matter. He took it as an internet prank. Everyone lies on internet. He went a step further., took a form of Nikahnama and sent it to AYESHA. Maha received it., and signed it as “MAHA” (it was intended for Ayesha)., and said… “Here it is. I am married to Shoaib”.

    AA BAIL MUJHE MAAR.. This is a case of one-sided love and obsession. Maha and her father must be fined atleast Rs. 3 lakhs., so that other women are discouraged. Otherwise if the women’s rights thing goes on., girls will have pics taken (with boys), and this will open flood-gates of suits where girls will claim “we have been married”, ” i have had a miscarriage” and so on. It will lead to a stage., where boys will refuse to be photographed with girls (for fear of accumulation of evidence).

    Truth must come out. I honestly believe., this is a trap. Maha is the culprit. She is mentally sick. She is 250 kgs., and needs medical health. She must consult Dr. Majeed Khan, Psychiatrist., Adarsh Nagar., Hyderabad., and take medical help. Shoaib and Sania must go ahead and marry April 15, 2010, no matter what., otherwise this relationship will crumble under the weight of the media war.

    Shoaib and Sania make a great couple. This ordeal may make their love even stronger… and maybe… this marriage MAY work. Earlier ones flopped cuz Mohsen Khan and Reena Roy was 30 yrs back. A lot has changed between these 30 yrs. Plus the fact that if they live in Dubai., they can have a gr8 life. Infact Shoaib and Sania can set up a Sports Club or Academy and teach kids Cricket and Tennis. Why not.

    If Lata Mangeshkar (a Shiv-Sena financier) and Asha Bhonsle can open restaurants in Dubai and make millions., why cant Sania-Shoaib open a Sports Club or Academy teaching kids Tennis and Cricket ?

    BJP is reaching its original levels. Showing its true face. It is nothing but a Bharat Jalao Party. Hatred for Islam and Indian Muslims (+ Muslims worldwide., with Pakistan being the scape-goat and most easy punching cuz it connects with the audience back home in India). The real TARGET of BJP is to insuniate and convey a message to Indian Hindus : Muslims at heart are not true Indians. Their loyalty to India is circumspect. Look, Sania was a star here., but she chose a Pakistani ! In other words., these people (Indian Muslims), in the event of war with Pakistan., will welcome Pakistani tanks., and guide them to Hindu Homes. So beware of these internal snakes… and support BJP / VHP / Durga Vahini / Shiv Sena / these Hindutva terrorist gangs i.e.

    Instil fear in the hearts of HINDUS., and grab political power in the states and the centre., and make billions. that is the real target of BJP.

    Bajra.. Bajra.. Bajra. Its Bajra all the way.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ shafi

    Who the hell is to bother whether she is 250 kg or more

    the point is she has marriage certificate and shoeb himself has admitted he signed it…

    Shoeb has accepted congratulations on his marriage from arun lal

    Shoeb should have weighed her first befors signing the nikaah certificate..

    ISLAM is worthy of being hated tell me what good it has…

    every one know it is apolitical ideology….plus religion = deadly combination

    Sasank Reply:

    the point is you will level these allegations against any innocent muslim woman be it ayesha or shah bano.

    muslim woman are second rate citizens.

    the police also have samples of shoaib’s semen. he is proper fucked now.

    Akash Reply:

    Zia,
    Where do you think RAW is fomenting trouble in Pakistan? FATA? or Balochistan? Even Pakistani commentators have acknowledged that all the brouhaha about Indians creating trouble in FATA is a complete nonsense. I am not sure that our establishment has gone bonkers and started helping organizations that are out to destabilize us. As for Balochistan, I am curious as to any source that you can quote in support of your claims. Don’t act on hearsay or bazaar gossip no matter how tempting it may be. In fact, I wish we were doing something in Balochistan.
    As for your claims about the inherent goodness of Pakistani people that you have met, I can only say that you are looking at the wrong sample. It is logical to assume that the people who come to India(not the terrorists) must have some sort of affection for our country. Talking to them and getting all dewy eyed about their gushing claims is not going to remove the suspicion that a vast majority of Pakistani populace looks at us with hostility. After all, your own Vinod Sharma has acknowledged that there used to be donation boxes for jihad in Kashmir. So much for the love for India! As for us being one people, it’s high time you jettison that nonsense. For all the tall claims about how Hinduvta is gaining ground in India, I doubt if 60% of our people would want our country to be governed on religious lines. Compare that to Pakistan where in a reputed survey a majority of people wanted Sharia to be imposed. So we may speak the same language or eat the same food, but our paths have diverged. By the way, you do the rest of India a great disservice. I doubt anyone is South or East find so much in common with Pakistan. For bulk of us, it has become an unnecessary irritant. 26/11 was a watershed. Oh and before you forget, why is the democratically elected government not doing anything about the terrorists. Apparently, that jackass Gilani wants more evidence. We should send some death squads to liquidate rascals like Hafiz Saeed. Witness how they shiver in their boots when predator bombs them from above. The bulk of the leadership there is worse than our own and has absolutely no sense of honor or prestige. They understand the language of daisy cutters. That’s all.
    As for Sania and Shoaib, I am surprised that so much is made of it. They are in love and should be congratulated on taking a bold step. If tomorrow, I fall in love with a Chinese girl, should I reject her on the account of China’s frosty relationship with India.

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Mr. Mitra, you are a genius and possess a very balanced view of things. It’s nice to see people like you. Must say I admire your sensibility. I used to think like that once upon a time until I read the Quran my roommate (a muslim) kept with him. However, I don’t agree with your views about Islam. I don’t like bigotry against Muslims, but at the same time Quran, Hadith and Sirat are perhaps the only religious sources that teach bigotry against other religions and that too in no uncertain terms. As I have pointed out in some of my earlier comments, openly violent verses inciting people to kill and smite the non-believers in a particular cult can’t be condoned in a civil society. The Muslims must introspect and reform their religion to weed out the undesirable anti-human elements in it. Unfortunately, it simply doesn’t seem to be possible. This religion, being more of a theosociopolitical cult than a religion, is inherently recalcitrant to change. All the reform movements so far have only ended up with a progressively more retrogressive and obstinate religion. I don’t have a personal vendetta against the muslims, but I’m opposed to the ideology of Islam, as any ethical person should be. I request you to read the Quran yourself to know the real nature of this cult.

    Sasank Reply:

    remove your beard and your burqas.

    [Reply]

    Syed Raza Ali Reply:

    YOU ASKED FOR MY OPINION. I DO NOT RECOGNIZE BORDERS AND NATIONALITIES, COLOR CASTS OR ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES YOU CAN CREATE . I ACANNOT BE MORE MODRATE THAN THAT.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    But you slyly omitted religion from this.
    If a religion says that it is the only path, then that is an intolerant religion.

    Amend the quran right away.

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    Sasank

    Syed Raza’s replies are exactly what Jamat-E-Islami Hind says about its philosophy. No difference on any grounds except for : No prizes for guessing!

    BTW, Mr. Syed Raza about the Gujarat Girl , was she a Hindu by birth? I know, it is very likely (almost certain) that by now, she would have been convinced about Islam and might have already converted (or agreed to) on her own, but nevertheless, a line in confirmation or otherwise would be helpful.

    I know, that is too personal a question to be asked by a stranger on a blog, but since you on your own have chosen to enlighten us, I thought I might as well ask for this additional information. Needless to say, not replying is your prerogative.

    Syed Raza Ali Reply:

    Who care about religion. She is human beeing who loves my son.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Syed raza

    Would you be willing to marry your daughter to a non muslim (read hindu-budhist-jain )

    Without pressing the boy to convert to religion of peace ?

    do some soul searching and that will be test of your moderateness and liberal

    i know it is considered victory for muslim boys if they are successful in enticing hindu girls :)

    so go and preach your modernity to some one else..

    [Reply]

    moon Reply:

    Me too … me too..!

    I am also dying to know if the Gujarati girl was a Hindu who “voluntarily” decided to convert to the religion of peace for the sake of love. And if Mr. Raza Ali would have been okay with her not converting, also for the sake of love.

    [Reply]

    Syed Raza Ali Reply:

    Please read my comments once again. I have said numerous time religion has nothing to do with my son mrrying Indian origin girl. Both are Americans now. I am simply amused how you backward Desis are raecting to it.

    Before you talk about conversion, please read something about Islamic conditions about it. There is no compulsion In Islam (jabr). If a person is coereced into becoming a Muslim, he will not be recognized as Muslim.

    If you have time and opportunit to visit USA, go in any city and you will see how widespread conversion was here. In 30 years time, I have seen whole neighorhood of Afro Amerian accepting Islam. Were they all forced?

    However, prior to 9/11 Islam was considered fastest growing religion in the world, it all stopped after 9/11. Now we are terrorists and many convert are disallusion and going back to their root.

    [Reply]

    Syed Raza Ali Reply:

    How do you know my daughter is not married to a Hindu. Surely it works both ways. If I can convert my would be daughter-in-law to Islam, surely I have converted my Hindu son in law to Islam.

    Raza

    [Reply]

    moon Reply:

    For the last time:

    A. Your daughter in law was a Hindu who converted to Islam prior to marriage.

    B. Your daughter in law was born Muslim

    C. Your daughter in law was born Hindu and remains a Hindu

    Pick the right answer. I don’t want anymore explanations about Islamic laws from you.

    You have proved caste and nationality don’t matter to you. Now let us put religion to the same test.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ azhar

    ha ha ha ha

    your thought makes me laugh..

    if you really emphasize humanity why you are asking the daughter in law or son in law to convert to this political ideology of islam ?

    you are on a mission…

    the pimp allah will ensure your 5 hajj if you convert one kaffir :)

    ha ha ha braod minded muslim…..

    my conclusion…there is no liberal muslim…muslim is muslim

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    I would quote a few lines from http://www.faithfreedom.org by Ali Sina about the fictitious unicorn called ‘moderate muslim’-
    “Every “moderate” Muslim is a potential terrorist. The belief in Islam is like a tank of gasoline. It looks innocuous, until it meets the fire. For a “moderate” Muslim to become a murderous jihadist, all it takes is a spark of faith.

    It is time to put an end to the charade of “moderate Islam.” There is no such thing as moderate Muslim. Muslims are either jihadists or dormant jihadists – moderate, they are not.

    by Ali Sina, FaithFreedom.org, March 14, 2010″

    We poor Indian taxpayers can continue to live in self-delusion as long as we may wish to, but deep down everyone knows that no harm is going to befall the “angel of peace” Mohd. Kasab- the Jihadist from Porkistan! Come on, you politicos! Have some shame and stop playing with the blood of poor Mumbaikars, stop this insane drama with the vulgarity of twisted pornographic proportions! Even a bloody idiot knows that Mr. Kasab’s mercy petition is going to lie on the table of the present and the 10 next Presidents to come, and all this while he will be dining on chicken biryani bought from the taxpayers’ money. He may someday even ask for his ‘human rights’ to $@#* a girl and procreate more ******** of his ilk and he will find hundreds of champions of terrorists’ human rights lining up to support him (a certain Roy, a Bhatt, a Setalvad etc.).Pro-Pak ‘Bhais’ from India will have intense competition for giving their girls to this great Ghazi and booking a seat in Jannat! Then someday the Pakis will hijack a plane, some politico’s kin or anything like that and liberate the great Jihadi! He will be decorated with Nishaan-e-Pakistan! And when he dies a peaceful death at 80, he will be given 70 virgins and many ‘young beautiful boys’ (according to Quran) to b**g for eternity! Thus ends the happy love story of Ajmal Amir kasab!

  • Salman Sheikh

    It struck such resonance in my heart and soul reading your post….such candid and fothright analysis of the predicament of people from both sides I have never seen put on paper more lucidly.

    It’s always amazed me how the anti-India sentiment in many of my countrymen sits uncomfortably with their adulation of things Indian and yet at the same time across the border I see the same admiration undulating in Indian hearts for the likes of Imran Khan etc.

    Tolerance is the notion we sould both be working to consolidate as invariably religious differences tempers the solidaity from both sides. Fanatical reaction of the Hindu lunatic fringe and the Mullah-brigade hijacking of any issue Indian, are most damaging for the well-being of both the nations. In Pak, these religious frenetics rally only a minority of seats in the Paliament, and hopefully same would be the case in India and the like sof Modi who use religious intolerance to stoke the flames of hatred would never get into utimate power.

    Sania Mirza’s decision to marry a Pakistani should be seen as her personal choice and not as a slight to India and Indians as apparently so many are fulminating on her move.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    What you said is miles away from the truth.

    A few individual Pakistanis coming to India for medical treatment or a team of Pakistani intellectuals/media people from Pakistan may criticize their government over the 26/11 attacks in Bombay, but the common people in Pakistan believe that the 26/11 attacks were carried out by RAW. They were staged by the Indian government so that India can blame Pakistan over it. If you don’t believe this, please read the report of this journalist who lived in Pakistan http://www.thehindu.com/2010/03/20/stories/2010032056641300.htm

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    it doesnt matter if Sania Mirza as an Indian marries Shoeb Mailk a P@kee. what is important , is that both are Muslims. as for Sania , India doesnt hold any importance.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Lets not blame sania for disloyalty.

    Her marrying another muslim from the other side of the border is not a disloyal thing to do.

    But sania’s decision (some time back) to stop playing in India was the most treacherous thing to do.

    She is a *****. She deserted here childhood friend. Maybe had sex with shoaib. who knows.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Sasank you picked on this line about Pakistanis beleiving that RAW was responsible for Mumbai attacks. Did you understand the whole article ans what he was trying to explain, I think not. “But even now, the first thing that Pakistanis and Indians ask each other is: “We eat the same food, speak the same language, we even look the same, so why can’t we be friends?” The short answer to that is that we cannot be friends as long as we continue looking at each other through the narrow prism of our respective states. Pakistanis must locate the Indian within themselves, and Indians must discover their inner Pakistani. It would help understand each other better, and free us from state-manipulated attitudes. In our own interests, it is up to us, the people, to find ways to do this. For now, Khuda Hafiz Pakistan.” READ AGAIN “STATE-MANIPULATED ATTITUDES” (NOT ONE BUT BUT STATES).

    “She is a *****. She deserted here childhood friend. Maybe had sex with shoaib. who knows” Baita relax lets get her married and let the bridegroom take away the bride.

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Azhar Hussain Sahib

    “We eat the same food, speak the same language, we even look the same, so why can’t we be friends?”

    Very bright, but a bit too late and slightly off target. For many of us took Great Mr. Jinnah’s teachings seriously, who asserted:

    “Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature. They neither inter-marry nor inter-dine and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations that are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their concepts on life and of life are different. It is quite clear that Hindus and Muslims derive their inspiration from different sources of history. They have different epics, different heroebys and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other, and likewise, their victories and defeats overlap”

    For those who did not understand, Muslim Kashmiris have taken the intiative. Being the obstinate fools, some of us are still not listening, even though our Muslim Kashmiris along with their brothers; have organised quite a few ‘light & sound’ shows at our railway stations, markets, court buildings, bakeries, roads, hotels, even hospitals etc.

    So you can continue with your S2S (same to same) theories about food, culture and music, but look for the Secular Hindus and Internet blogs, as our media men will tell you, is not the place to find them.

  • ratee

    A purely apologetic article. Well let me tell you that you without Pakistan Army and General Kayani, Asma Jehangir would have been already a part of India. Pakistan Army is the only professional force that Pakistan has and that deters India from attacking Pakistan. Secondly, if Pakistan was not a nuclear power India, would certainly have attacked Pakistan after the Mumbai attack in 2008.

    So she better be careful talking about loudmouths who do not understand the hatred of Indians against Pakistan and if you do not like the defenders of Pakistan you may leave Pakistan and live elsewhere. Maybe in India so if they think they are their real friends?

    [Reply]

    Nasir Reply:

    Well Zia, even if you keep aside this explosion of media coverage of Sania-Shoaib marriage, it is hard to believe whether India pakistan relations will ever be normalised. Lack of strong democratic structure and an autonomous army makes it difficult to negotiate anything with Pakistan. No one knows who is actually in command and even if decision are made to this effect then whether they will endure or will be subverted by the next government or army.
    It is not about Indians and Pakistanis liking each other…it is just humanity we don’t fight or shout at strangers and meet with everyone with grace and politeness.
    However decisions and policies are made by government and when it comes to negotiate with pakistan it seems that we have been banging our head on a brick wall for quite sometime.

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    Hmm so that is all that is there about Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, a PERPETUAL license to uniterrupted TERROR

    [Reply]

    JD Reply:

    Pity Ratee – After more than 60 years of independence by your own admission, “the only professional force that Pakistan has” is your Army. There is also a tacit admission of Pakistan being guilty of 26/11 because it did not fear an attack in retaliation. Bank on this tactic one or two more time and your bluff could be called. Asma Jehangir would be welcome by most Indians.

    [Reply]

  • sea horse

    As an Indian I dont care who Sania Mirza marries as there are many Hyderabadi females marrying Arabs and other nationals but they dont get publicity as they are not PUBLIC figures or famous like Sania.
    I think her decision to leave Sohrab and marry Shoeib goes to show her loyalty in the first place and secondly her decision to marry a Pakistani in India again shows how she is trying to make a fool of the Indian government and Indians knowing our relationship across the borders!

    I think if she is so desperate she should leave India permanently and marry her lover and stay either in Pakistan or Dubai as she feels but once she makes this move its important that she should not be permitted to enter India which is for the safety of Indians. We never trusted and can never trust a Pakistani or his better half..I DONT for sure.

    [Reply]

    manish1957 Reply:

    Shoaib Malick’s alleged marriage with Ayesha was said to have been solemnized as per islamic law, and hence they should be decided as per shariat laws. The decision of Sania Mirza to marry Shoaib Malik is her personal decision, and this should not be subject matter of any gossip. Through your these columns, I convey my congratulations to Sania and Shoaib , and wish them happy married life.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Yes the issue is not Sania-Shoaib. That is their personal affair.

    The issue is that this author has accused India (without proof) of supporting terrorism.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    And you don’t think India has ever supported terroirism in the neighbourhood. Talk to Sri Lankan; talk to Bangladeshi; or talk to a Nepali. They will tell you. Do you know what Tamil Tigers were and who supported them? With us Pakistanis, it is a *** for Tat and thats what you Indians can’t digest.

    Sasank Reply:

    “With us Pakistanis, it is a *** for Tat and thats what you Indians can’t digest.”

    Oh so you have FINALLY REVEALED that you are a PORKISTANI.

    There is no point in arguing then. I pity you guys. Devoid of creative freedom. Brainwashed with hatred for India. Piss off man.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Answer the question you coward Sasank? Did India ever interfer in its neighbours affairs or not? Yes Or NO

    Sasank try to answer the question or else I will quide you to it.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ azhar

    No

    and never in porkistan….coz u people are already there to mess things up…so we don’t need to interfere in that hell.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Sanjeev you are also behaving like Sasank, no sense but unable to see why Pakistanis show you guys the middle finger and nothing you guys can do about it. Now back to the falsehood in your minds, that India has and will never interfere in its neighbours affairs.

    In case of South Asia, this has not been true. India has disputes with almost every neighbor which have strained their relationships for years.

    Nepal: The tiny mountain state of Nepal has complained of persistent Indian dictation and interference in its internal affairs. That India employs economic blockades and manipulates transit facilities to this landlocked country for arm twisting is no secret.

    Bangladesh: Likewise, Bangladesh is locked into an unresolved dispute for the building of the Farakka barrage that deprives Bangladesh of its water share. Despite the gratitude Bangladesh owes to India for having militarily dismembered Pakistan in 1971 to midwife its birth, relations between the two have often sunk to the rock bottom on a host of issues, including border disputes.

    Sri Lanka: In Sri Lanka, India overtly and covertly supported the insurgency against the state by a nationalist group, Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) in Jaffna – the northern region of this small island state. India’s support kept it politically and economically destabilized for decades. In the end, India paid for its interference when its prime minister, Rajiv Gandhi, was assassinated by a Tamil activist for having betrayed the movement.

    China: Although not a part of South Asia, China is India’s important neighbor but for decades Sino-Indian relations have remained frosty, at best. They went to war in 1962 over a border dispute. Competing for regional leadership, it antagonizes China by hoisting the Dalai Lama off and on to keep the issue of Tibet alive. Lately, having aligned itself with America to contain China, India is bargaining for a tense Sino-Indian relationship in the years to come.

    Pakistan: With Pakistan, India maintains the worst of relations mainly because of Pakistan’s political and military standing and its ability to reject Indian domination. Outstanding disputes include Kashmir, water distribution, dams that India constructs in violation Indus Water Treaty and border issues. Pakistan’s dismemberment in 1971 by Indian hands is still fresh. And when India finances, arms and supports insurgency in Balochistan through its consulates along Afghan-Balochistan border and through its RAW agents operating inside Balochistan for the replay of East Pakistan scenario, the images of 1971 war come alive and acrimony between the two countries intensifies.

    Afghanistan: By joining the American bandwagon in Afghanistan and positioning its troops in the name of infra structure development, India created enough concerns for Pakistan. But by its collusion with CIA and Mossad to take out Pakistan’s nuclear assets through subversion in FATA, the NWFP and other areas using the militants of Tehrik-e-Taliban, India is slamming shut the door on the peace process that Pakistan has been persistently trying to keep open ever since 1947. With a history of constant endeavors to balkanize Pakistan, Indian military build up in Afghanistan is seen by Pakistan’s military as an effort to put it in a nutcracker.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ azhar

    I think you have been fed by your defence analyst ” zaid hameed ”

    in fact he should be joker..

    all lies

    Go and pray to your pedophile, rapist, murderer god….

    that job is best suitable for you

  • Nabeel Malik

    Hi Sania Shoaib Happy Marrige Life And Wish You All The Best And I Love You Sania And Shoaib

    [Reply]

    Sameer Reply:

    Hieight of stupidity, One of the most stupidist blog ever written….Zia looks more like a product of madarsa then anything else now.

    [Reply]

  • Vipin k Gupta

    At the core of every Indian Muslim Love for Pakistan is not Lost. May be Sharukh or Sania.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    Indian Muslims are nothing but p@kees residing in India (except a few)

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Yes. It is also strange that the hungry muslims of India are not (relatively) bothered about Israel or Pakistan.

    It is the gluttonous high caste Ashrafis who entertain these fundamentalist beliefs.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Same goes for Indians living any where else. Ask Indians living in the Caribeans?

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ mullah azhar

    Indians don’t explode bombs at their metro station, trains etc… just as your ilk do….london. Hadley, Rana, 9/11

    do you feel the difference ?

    Have the holy book brainwashed you so much ?

    [Reply]

  • Mah Rukh Khan

    We Pakistanis are very much happy over this marriage.God bless you both.May you have good time together.Love knows no boundaries and Indians should understand this.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    as an Indian i am happy with relation to Pakistan only when several P@kees are killed in bomb blasts. as far as love is concerned we were the ones to extend the hand of friendship to you pigs , but you didnt reciprocate. you p@kees are beggars nto only financially but also intellectually.

    by the way: please note- terrorism also knows no boundries

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    as an Indian i am happy with relation to Pakistan only when several P@kees are killed in bomb blasts. as far as love is concerned we were the ones to extend the hand of friendship to you pigs , but you didnt reciprocate. you p@kees are beggars not only financially but also intellectually.

    by the way: please note- terrorism also knows no boundries

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Yeah. There is no harm in having relations. The mindset of the ordinary porki has to change.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Sasank you are a laughable character? May be smaller countries will listen to you guys but we in Pakistna don’t give a rats ***, what yo guys have to say.

  • Yogesh Shastri

    Dear all, if its so goody-goody between the people, let these people come out and tell Pakistan to reliquish its right to Kashmir. Let us ask our own Sania and Dulhe Mia Mr. Shoaib what thier take on it.

    [Reply]

  • Ziauddin Shafi

    After a very long time, the people of India and Pakistan are absorbed in a non-violent yet aggressive Sania-Shoeb-Ayesha affair, which is being given a murky look by the pack of lies being uttered every other day by Ayesha Siddiqui, who is proving to be a master at weaving a web of deciet around her victim. That will be taken care of in a matter of time, as the Siddiquis are mere black-mailing, white-collar criminals who want to make a few millions for themselves. However, they are going about it with a gun to their own heads – that speaks a lot about their suicidal tendencies and state of mind. They all must see a psychiatrist and undergo treatment for at least 2 years – for their own good – and please Press & Electronic media, spare us this torture of reporting on the Maha Ayesha Siddiqui lies.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    pack your bags and get lost to Pakistan you Gaddaar!!

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    According to Islam, all women are “mere black-mailing, white-collar criminals who want to make a few millions for themselves.”

    All women are second class citizens. That is why you need to **** them up as much as possible.

    [Reply]

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    A letter that appeared in Hindustan Times today by Manik Prabhu who wrote on Vir Sanghvi’s article, is an eye-opener:

    Manik Prabhu 2 hours ago

    BAAJRA LAAO.

    BAAJRA… BAAJRA.. BAAJRA.. Maha Siddiki ko Bajra daalo. Maha Siddiqui is a real person (age 42, weight : 250 kgs). Vice Principal, Hala International School, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. (Tel : 00966 671 5531 / 5543). Her sister NAGHMA Siddiqui has divorced twice too., and is now with her 3rd husband in Hyderabad. Maha suffers from a personality disorder (Dual-Personality). “AYESHA” is her alter-ego. A slim girl, as beautiful as Beyonce Knowles !

    “Ayesha” is a fictional character that Maha Siddiqui created in her mind. With the help of pics of another girl (Huma / XYZ) she duped Shoaib Akhtar into a relationship. First talk., then invitation (and disappearance)., and slowly like a vaccum cleaner., she pulled the man in. Remember at the start of the relationship, the age of Shoaib Malik is around 18-20. Whereas., Maha Siddiqui must have been 34 (at the time of the start of the relationship). 34 v/s. 18. If i were the lawyer for Shoaib Malik (who may not be an angel., but in this case is innocent), i will stress this factor very severely.

    In 10 years, it seems Shoaib met Maha but his end goal is to reach “AYESHA” the Beyonce Knowles character created by Maha. Shoaib’s manzil was “Ayesha” which was a fictional character. Maha comes into the picture sometimes as Aunt / Sister., only to butter Shoaib into sweet talk., and then has the pics photographed. If you look at the pic., yo u will realise Shoaib is standing so respectfully. A husband doesnt stand like THAT with his wife. Study their faces.

    Why on earth would a 18 yr old fall for a 36 year old Vice Principal of Hala Intl School jeddah weighint 250 kgs ? Is this logical. Whereas a 36 yr old Vice Principal CAN fall in love with a cute slim hot looking 18 yr old dude ! Reminds me of Lady Chatterly’s Lover ! Maha used to work at Hala International School. I bet she took the pics of a beautiful girl-student studiying in “A” levels (Intermediate in Indian parlance)… she took hundreds of pics of that girl., and presented it to Shoaib as her creation “AYESHA”.

    SHOAIB MUST NOW PRESENT THOSE PICS (OF THE FICTIONAL AYESHA) to the POLICE AND MEDIA. This is clinching evidence. Those pics must now be made public., for the truth to come out.

    Maha’s father says : “Shoaib and the Pak Team visited Hyd., and in fact it was a Wedding Reception”. Mr. Siddiqui., in a wedding reception., the Groom (Doolha) does not wear a “Track Suit”. OK. Shoaib ko phansaya gaya hai. Shoaib has been trapped.

    Fault of Shoaib : He is from a poor family. He is uneducated. He did not understand the gravity of the matter. He took it as an internet prank. Everyone lies on internet. He went a step further., took a form of Nikahnama and sent it to AYESHA. Maha received it., and signed it as “MAHA” (it was intended for Ayesha)., and said… “Here it is. I am married to Shoaib”.

    AA BAIL MUJHE MAAR.. This is a case of one-sided love and obsession. Maha and her father must be fined atleast Rs. 3 lakhs., so that other women are discouraged. Otherwise if the women’s rights thing goes on., girls will have pics taken (with boys), and this will open flood-gates of suits where girls will claim “we have been married”, ” i have had a miscarriage” and so on. It will lead to a stage., where boys will refuse to be photographed with girls (for fear of accumulation of evidence).

    Truth must come out. I honestly believe., this is a trap. Maha is the culprit. She is mentally sick. She is 250 kgs., and needs medical health. She must consult Dr. Majeed Khan, Psychiatrist., Adarsh Nagar., Hyderabad., and take medical help. Shoaib and Sania must go ahead and marry April 15, 2010, no matter what., otherwise this relationship will crumble under the weight of the media war.

    Shoaib and Sania make a great couple. This ordeal may make their love even stronger… and maybe… this marriage MAY work. Earlier ones flopped cuz Mohsen Khan and Reena Roy was 30 yrs back. A lot has changed between these 30 yrs. Plus the fact that if they live in Dubai., they can have a gr8 life. Infact Shoaib and Sania can set up a Sports Club or Academy and teach kids Cricket and Tennis. Why not.

    If Lata Mangeshkar (a Shiv-Sena financier) and Asha Bhonsle can open restaurants in Dubai and make millions., why cant Sania-Shoaib open a Sports Club or Academy teaching kids Tennis and Cricket ?

    BJP is reaching its original levels. Showing its true face. It is nothing but a Bharat Jalao Party. Hatred for Islam and Indian Muslims (+ Muslims worldwide., with Pakistan being the scape-goat and most easy punching cuz it connects with the audience back home in India). The real TARGET of BJP is to insuniate and convey a message to Indian Hindus : Muslims at heart are not true Indians. Their loyalty to India is circumspect. Look, Sania was a star here., but she chose a Pakistani ! In other words., these people (Indian Muslims), in the event of war with Pakistan., will welcome Pakistani tanks., and guide them to Hindu Homes. So beware of these internal snakes… and support BJP / VHP / Durga Vahini / Shiv Sena / these Hindutva terrorist gangs i.e.

    Instil fear in the hearts of HINDUS., and grab political power in the states and the centre., and make billions. that is the real target of BJP.

    Bajra.. Bajra.. Bajra. Its Bajra all the way.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    An article by Kuldip Nayar bashing these fundamentalist muslim madarchods.

    http://www.kuldipnayar.com/btl/Gujarat%20remains%20challenge%20to%20secularism.htm

    Sasank Reply:

    This guy Zia Haq is totally anti-Indian.

    Can anyone point out the inflammatory things he has written.

    I would like to sue him. What charges can I make against him ?

    Rajeev Reply:

    If that is the case, you may end up suing 99% muslims so take a chill pill.

    moon Reply:

    How dare you talk about suing him, you RAW, RSS, VHP agent! You Hindu Taliban! You non-secular Muslim baiter! You should be ashamed of yourself. Instead of demolishing your temple so he can build mosques on them and providing funds for his Haj out of your tax money and quotas for him in jobs so he can earn more and comfortably publish his articles on RAW aggression and help brethren in Pakistan, you are talking about suing him! I will call Shabana, Barkha, Shah Rukh, Teesta to his rescue right now.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Meri Tauba..Ye Gunaah mein nahi kar sakta..tauba tauba.. :)

    Sasank Reply:

    @moon : hahahaha

    @Mullah Zia, Maha Madda Bobby, and all porki mullahs :

    I donot vote for BJP in elections. I vote for TDP. I am not an RSS volunteer. I am a loksatta activist. I donot belong to the vhp. I belong to ramakrishna mission.

    But why am I so pissed ? Because of your pan-islamic statehood dreams. And your anti-Indian nature.

    Bobby Reply:

    “I donot belong to the vhp. I belong to ramakrishna mission”

    You know I am very happy to know this. I wish Ashish reads where you are coming from…that will clearly show him the standard of people from RKM, unlike what Ashish was claiming in some other post, in this blog.

    Sasank Reply:

    Bobby, are you a member of maha madda band alias deoband ?

    Bobby Reply:

    “This guy Zia Haq is totally anti-Indian.

    Can anyone point out the inflammatory things he has written.

    I would like to sue him. What charges can I make against him ?”

    :) Latest addition to the “crackpottiers club” ! along with sam the joker and the d i ck heads- the nutty jeev twins……..This club is surely getting crowded!

    Rajeev Reply:

    See how terrorists support eachother..that’s the beauty of Islam.

  • Kalyani Kapur

    Thanks for enlightening us Zia. Can you also enlighten us why Lata Mangeshkar was denied a Pakistani passport. Pakistan is a damn good country & you should move there with your crappy blog. Good riddance for us.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Hell Yeah !

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Zia , take your wife, mom, and sissy to NWFP. Watch them give orgies to tribal afridis.

    [Reply]

  • sanjeev

    @ Zia

    Here is the interesting story of cross border marriages:

    In search of their Arab fathers by J.S. Ifthekhar THE HINDU, 9 march 2010

    http://www.hindu.com/2010/03/09/stories/2010030954690700.htm

    About 40 of them have come together for a common cause – of securing the nationality of UAE and claiming their rightful due from their overseas fathers.

    This is the story of 40 young kids who have dared to raise voice…i don’t know how many have taken it into their destiny.

    Please don’t say it has been reported by some rightist oriented newspaper :)

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    Actually I think the Sania-Shoaib episode shows something about the Male psyche. The jubiliation one sees in Pakistan, I feel is to somet extent because a Pakistani Male married a Indian female. Woman in South Asia are considered as possessions of men. So the jubiliation in Pakistan is like “wow Our Mard has “won” a Indian Woman, beating all the Indian male, who have been therefore proved to be namard”.

    The hindu fundamentalist reaction on the other hand is just the opposite… A sense of shame at losing their possession to a Pakistani mard… I am curious to see what would have been the reactions, if the situation was exactly the opposite. Namely an Indian male had married a Pakistani female.

    Other that that its a triviality, hardly worth all the media attention.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Thank god it is not a Hindu like Reena Roy.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    I think this feeling of having won something is not present in the Hindu psyche. Because you can only marry ONE woman.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    And screw many more before and after marriage. Your head is where it does not belong.

    Sasank Reply:

    I maybe wrong. Males are always faggots everywhere.

    [Reply]

    moon Reply:

    Azhar is saying Muslim men do not screw women they are not married to? :D

    And what about women? Since women cannot marry more than one guy at a time, by the logic of Islam, there must be a veritable epidemic of adultery among the women.

  • sanjeev

    @ Mulah Bobby

    The great terrorist is back….

    What your nobel viws on the last lines of zia’s entry ?…” I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan.”

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    hello nutcase…. there does not seem to be any improvement in your mental health…

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Mr, Babaruddin Khan Afridi, please disclose your true identity.

    you are and orgy seeking pathan.

    please improve your reasoning abilities. give CAT.

    wait . i am not so sure. you must give a madrasa exam first.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear crackpot,

    Is clearing CAT the greatest academic achievement that your pea sized brain can come up with?

    Sasank Reply:

    nutcase bobby, he was asking you a question. try to answer it.

    or will you decline stating the same reasons as you do for vande mataram, jana gana mana.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Sasank is Sania your sister, because if she is than I can understand you have smoke coming out of your rear end. Shoaib is here to pick her up and take her away, ain’t nothing anybody can do.

    Sasank Reply:

    Well Sania’s personal life is none of my business.

    But there is one sentence in this blog which has upset me.

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Vijay Kumar

    ‘It is all right to keep saying that the jihadis and the mullahas are misusing Islam. That isgreat. But how do you prevent that?’

    First of all it is not all right to keep saying that Jihadis are misusing Islam. It is right only in the context of following Quran’s mandate.

    By now, I have seen enough of Quran to buy any nonsense of mis-interpretation or out of context excuses. The clinching evidence is a book called ‘Reliance of the Traveler’ a book certified by Al-Azhar University (apart from other certified muslim experts on Islam) as fully compliant with orthodox Sunni practice.

    Look for caliph, Jihad, its objectives and strategies, its guidance on truce and much more, you would not be left with even a single doubt. All the reasons cited for justifying terror, whether by the terrorists or by ulema, the so called anti-terror fatwas, all of these stand fully explained by the book.

    As for Sania-Shoaib saga the only thing worth discussing is the disgusting agitation launched by some semitised Hindus in TN, and my worry is that these trends are getting worse.

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    For a nicely nuanced take on this, read MJ Akbar
    http://mjakbarblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/beware-comedy-of-mirrors.html

    [Reply]

  • vikram

    “Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. ” !!!
    right and the CIA and mossad was responsible for 911 and the hindu groups actually wanted to malign pakistan and so they orchestrated 26/11. burkha is a good thing. triple talak is a fundamental religious right. polio drops r a conspiracy to make muslims infertile. it was ram who demolished the babri mosque (the original one). denizens of India were converted by the message of love and brotherhood. Islam is a religion of peace …. excuse me now i need to puke.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    yeah and birth control is the biggest sin.

    [Reply]

  • moon

    As long as a religious doctrine states that:

    1. It is the only right path to God

    2. Converting into the religion is okay, but converting out of it is punishable by death

    3. Marriage to a person of that faith requires compulsory conversion of someone not practicing that faith

    that doctrine is non-liberal and bound to create trouble between people of different faiths. If a country’s policies and laws are regulated by this doctrine, then it is bound to be in conflict with countries not regulated by the same doctrines. Because by definition, such a doctrine has already declared people of other faiths as lesser beings.

    I do not think any Pakistani has the right to look down on Indians and make wishy washy comments about intolerance of Hindus as long as they themselves believe in the three points mentioned above.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Hundred percent correct.

    There is not a single muslim (even zia haq) on this planet who would say these points are wrong.

    Actually even Christianity is intolerant in that it believes it is the only right path to god. It also believes in destroying idols and ridiculing pagan gods. But it is not as violent as Islam.

    [Reply]

    moon Reply:

    Christians used violence in the past…the Inquisition, Crusades, witch burnings.

    The only reason they are more peaceable now is that there is a clear demarcation between state and Church. It allows individuals more room to breathe freely and think according to their conscience.

    Don’t know. Maybe being born in the desert does something to the brain…

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Moon,
    All the three semitic faiths (Islam, xtianity and Judaism) are based on violence against non-believers.
    Please do not indulge in “tumhare badmash mere badmasho se behtar kaise” kind of debate.

    moon Reply:

    Which badmashes are you referring to?

    Rajeev Reply:

    semitic badmash..

  • SKS Mumbai

    @MAK
    ‘As a Pakistani, I pity Indian Muslims’

    Instead of ‘As a Pakistani’, you should have used, as a ‘Pakistani Muslim’ but I can understand, it is the same thing.

    ‘They are so docile and so peaceful and yet the Hindus can’t stand them’

    Docile or not, peaceful or not, Hindus stand them far more than most of the other non-muslim communities or countries, Emerging Europe is an example. Of course, your ancestors have shown so much love for Pakistani Hindus that there wasn’t much left for your generation to do, (to be precise 1.7% of ur population) .

    BTW what was the % of Hindus-Sikhs in what became Pakistan (leave Bdesh) as per 1931 census? About 20%?. What happened to those between 20% and 1.7%? Migrated to India or converted to True Religion?

    ‘It is terribly sad to be a muslim in India. . . .
    Yeah sure, while on your side the terrible sadness has been taken care of (almost).

    ‘I am glad that we went separate ways’

    Well the feeling is mutual, although not as convenient as 1.7 percent.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Yeah shoaib malik (after t20 worldcup loss) said that all muslims in the world are sad because of pakistan’s defeat.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Kuldip Nayar’s article bashing these fundamentalist muslim madarchods.

    http://www.kuldipnayar.com/btl/Gujarat%20remains%20challenge%20to%20secularism.htm

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Syed Raza Ali
    Thanks for your following answer.

    ‘If I can convert my would be daughter-in-law to Islam, surely I have converted my Hindu son in law to Islam’
    Exactly what we said and I know your answer wasn’t a mistake.

    Don’t try your ‘No compulsion in Religion’ and ‘kill one kill all’ comedy here. Follow the example of this blog’s author and avoid responding to these questions.

    As for the conversions you are claiming in US, it is fairly well known that most of those converting to Islam are criminals (many actually convert in Jail), social misfits and failures. It is not just in US, but in most of the western countries, Prisons are biggest Dawah centres.!
    Leave these facts aside, the very fact that somebody choses to become a Muslim is evidence enough of his capability, utility and sanity.

    [Reply]

  • moon

    For the last time, pick the right answer:

    A. Your daughter in law was a Hindu who converted to Islam prior to marriage.

    B. Your daughter in law was born Muslim

    C. Your daughter in law was born Hindu and remains a Hindu

    Pick the right answer. I don’t want anymore explanations about Islamic laws from you.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Azhar Hussain

    ‘why Pakistanis show you guys the middle finger and nothing you guys can do about it’

    True, the last time we decided to do something about your middle finger, we ended up slicing the whole body into two. So for some time, we’ll avoid doing anything about your middle finger.

    ‘India is slamming shut the door on the peace process that Pakistan has been persistently trying to keep open ever since 1947’

    I give it to your sense of humor, after all no education system; not even Pakistani (whatever goes in that name in your pure land), can produce such scholarly wisdoms as, Pakistan keeping the peace door open since 1947. On second thoughts, isn’t Zaid Hameed, the ‘defence analayst’ also a product of your education (??) system.

    OOpsss, sorry, you were right, I just now realized you were talking about Islamic Peace!!

    ‘Competing for regional leadership, it antagonizes China by hoisting the Dalai Lama off and on to keep the issue of Tibet alive.’

    But for the familiarity with your theology, I would have thought this statement to be sarcasm, say in the context of what Pakistan does to India by hosting (?) Hafiz Sayeed (for one). BTW what word would you use in place of ‘antagonizing’ when Dalai Lama is replaced with Hafiz Sayeed? e. g. something similar to Islamic Brotherhood ?

    [Reply]

  • Mitra

    This is the 2nd part of my response to Zia.

    3. I agree about the activities of Indian intelligence agencies in Sri Lanka, but we were clearly talking specifically about the role of Indian intelligence agencies in fomenting terrorism inside Pakistan (Is someone trying to change the topic?!).The South Asian region now receives a lot of attention in universities and think tanks after 9/11- but most researchers who study these conflicts don’t believe that India trains terrorist groups to target Pakistan or that the terrorist attacks inside Pakistan are sponsored by India- whereas the ISI’s role in terrorist attacks within India is quite well documented.

    Of course, intelligence agencies of every country conducts covert operations in other countries- but lets not confuse that with encouraging horrendous violence like the 26/11 attacks. China has spies in USA and USA has spies in China- that doesn’t mean they are training terrorist groups to kill hundreds of civilians in each others countries- as Pakistan is doing for India. You can make any accusation against Indian intelligence agencies that you want- but just show me the evidence, that is all I am asking. Is there any prominent researcher in this area who have found that there is any substance to these allegations made by Pakistan?

    4. From certain things that you said about polygamy etc in your previous posts, I thought you will defend the Muslim personal laws in India as they exist today. If I am wrong, let me apologize. I look forward to learning more about your views on this- maybe another blog posting! I am aware that the Hindu nationalists misuse this issue to encourage prejudice and hatred against Muslims. I deeply regret that and I condemn it without any reservations. I am interested in this issue because I strongly believe that equality (and equal opportunities) between men and women is an important ethical objective for a liberal democracy. Finally, I don’t want to put you or anybody else in a box- I personally don’t like being pigeonholed and I am prepared to extend the same courtesy to others!

    5. I agree with your fundamental point that Indian Muslims (or anybody else) shouldn’t feel afraid to express whatever views they have on Pakistan. I want India to be a society that reflects the values of freedom, tolerance and respect/dignity for all. Our constitution and our laws reflects those values – but as a society we have often fallen short. We should try to do better!

    [Reply]

  • Mitra

    This is the first part of my response.
    1. On the Sania-Shoiab marriage, there was a single comment by Shivsena (which Udhav retracted later) and some noise made by Bajrang Dal. On the basis of this, you believe that the ability of a massively popular Indian tennis star to play for India could be under cloud. In my view, if you don’t realize that this is absurd, you have a pretty serious problem with reality! I don’t mean any disrespect- we just have a disagreement, that is all.

    On earlier posts, you have lamented the absence (or short supply) of secular Hindus. In some ways, I agree with you- but I think you overstate your case. India has managed to remain a stable liberal democracy for 60 years, while so many other countries in Asia and Africa which gained independence in 1940’s and 50’s have failed. Hindu nationalists have never been in power in India except NDA in 1999-2004 – that too the BJP had to agree not to pursue its core demands in order to gain enough support to form the government in 1999. The core demands were a) Construction of Ram Temple in Ayodha b) Abrogation of Article 370 on Kashmir c) Uniform Civil code d) Federal ban on cow slaughter.

    Even if the BJP comes to power in future (unlikely, unless they reinvent themselves), they will have to learn to function within a political context defined by a) A liberal Constitution which upholds the rights of minorities rather clearly and a judiciary increasingly able and willing to defend those rights b) A vibrant civil society/media that generally defends pluralism and opposes fanaticism c) The aam admi in India have little interest (the Ram temple movement being an exception) in divisive religious issues- roti/kapra/makan is what people mostly care about.

    I think the Hindutva movement is still the most dangerous political force in India because the Hindu Nationalist project challenges the foundational idea and ideals of India. Also, some BJP state governments can inflict a lot of pain on minorities, like the shameful Gujarat riots in 2002.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Zia
    Why the censoring?
    Let me guess:

    unparliamentary language?

    Or Too much of Truth?

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Azhar Hussain
    You had stuff to say about water. Water Terror on poor innocent Pakistan by the scheming hegemonic India?

    Hardly a week ago, your Foreign Minister admitted in front of every one that:
    “The total average canal supplies of Pakistan are 104 million acres/ft. And the water available at the farm gate is about 70 million acre/ft. Where does the 34 million acre/ft go? It’s not being stolen in India, it’s been wasted in Pakistan,”

    http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/303b19022816233b/id/619797/cs/1/

    Now, that is hardly news for those who know Pakistan, but what your FM was trying to hide is a bit interesting. It seems when he said ‘wastage’ it was actually ‘theft’! Any guess who are the thiefs? Read on:

    “Water theft has become a serious issue over the past two decades and is seriously affecting canal operations and equitable distribution of water. Theft by influential people at the head-reaches results in water shortage and deprives the poor farmers at the tail of these channels. Against this backdrop, water theft by state agencies robs the department of any moral authority to go after small farmers.”

    Moral Authority ! State Agencies ? Who are they? Check
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/army%2C-rangers-accused-of-stealing-water-740

    India saved Bangladeshis in 1971, but who will save poor Pakistanis from your army ?

    But may be, I am wrong again. After all Pakistani army is serving you in the best possible manner, by expediting their trip to ‘Hereafter’, after all, that is all that matters.

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    Awesome SKS !

    The fact remains that Pakistan is a feudal society. Ripe for communist revolution. But I dont think it will happen because of the islamist dogma.

    Zia-ul-haq stopped the land reforms in pakistan for fear of backlash from bada landlords. He told the common people “Pray Allah for food and water. Wait for his blessings. You have no right to food or water other than that given by allah”

    Haha and the people believed it.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Mitra
    If you were outraged just because Antuley questioned Karkare’s death on 26/1, then I suggest you, a trip through some of the popular websites, where Indian Muslims comment frequently. Like Two circles, Milli Gazette, MuslimIndia, Hussainiyouth etc.
    Antuley asked for an enquiry, but a good number of Muslims and the few Secular Hindus have delivered their Judgements as well. FYI, it isn’t just about 26/11, verdicts on Mumbai Train bombing and a few others are also available.
    More than the articles you should focus on the comments, quite a few gems there.

    Being the Bigot I am, my personal favorite is ‘Kasab an avtar of Vishnu’. I know you might not have enough time and that is why I wanted to help you with the links also but the gentleman running the show here, won’t allow me. I am not bsure, if even this will be allowed.

    [Reply]

  • Mitra

    I am not sure there is any censoring- it may be some other issue with my post.

    As anybody who has visited Zia’s blog will find, there is a lot of anti-Muslim bigotry among Hindus. I will also not be surprised to learn that there are many bigots among Muslims in India. But the majority of the people in both the communities don’t support the bigots. If we can create an environment in India where Muslims can participate and benefit from India’s economic growth, then the appeal of Islamic fundamentalim will diminish. I think this is already happening. Few Muslims who have any options want their child to grow up to be a mullah, they want to be doctors/engineers/academics/IT workers etc. Lets recognize the aspirations of the majority of the people in each community to lead decent normal lives and lets resolve to fight prejudice, hatred and extremism, whether Hindu, Muslim or Christian. The mindset of a Bajrang Dal fanatic is not that much different from that of a member of SIMI, so I don’t se how you can be critical of one without being critical of the other.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ mitra

    Education works for other communities but not for muslims. See all the 9/11 terrorists were well educated and had degrees in computer sciences and engineering besides commercial pilot licences.

    The issue with muslims is not of education but of the manual of terrorism (Quran ). As long as quran is there …peace will be elusive to muslims.

    Infact Islam is politico-religious movement, the two are so much fused with each other as the whiteness is with the milk….

    The islamist will never give up their supremacist claims, like only islam is true religion, non muslims will be going to fire of hell etc …..the list is endless..

    In my view eduacted muslims like Zia, Bobby, Imran Hashmi, Javed Akhtar, Shabana Ajmi etc are more dangerous than uneduactd jihadi’s…because with eduaction muslims evolve innovative terror techniques.

    Will give some opinion on AMU professor who was removed from his office by highly enlightened Vice Chancellor of the university.

    HERE goes the statement of AMU officals ( taken from The Hindu : 28 feb 2010 )

    Rationalising the suspension of Dr. Siras for his homosexuality, AMU public relations officer Rahat Abrar said: “The quarters where he was staying is university property. Further, a teacher has a role of responsibility and should be a figure to be looked up to. AMU has a history of culture and tradition and such things cannot be overlooked.”

    Asked whether this was not a violation of Dr. Siras’s privacy, AMU Faculty of Law associate professor Shakeel Samdani said: “Part III of the Indian Constitution dealing with Fundamental Rights guarantees certain rights subject to public order, morality and health. A teacher cannot act in such a manner as it violates public order, is a threat to tradition and such acts give rise to AIDS.”

    According to human rights lawyers ………” these restrictions( mentioned above by Shakeel Samdani ) apply only to the Right to Freedom of Religion under Articles 25 and 26 in Part III and not to the Right to Privacy which is a part of the Right to Life under Article 21 of the Constitution ”

    Reminded about that judgment of delhi high court decriminalising homosexuality, Dr. Samdani claimed: “AMU falls under the jurisdiction of the Allahabad High Court. The ruling of the Delhi High Court regarding decriminalising of homosexuality may be accepted or struck down by the Allahabad High Court ”

    The Supreme Court, which is hearing the matter, has already rejected a plea to stay the Delhi HC judgment.

    Jasim Mohammed, who is pursuing his Ph. D., has started a “signature campaign” to sack Dr. Siras. Claiming that over 750 people had signed his memorandum, he said: “Dr. Siras’ services should be terminated for bringing disrepute to the university. This is a matter of Muslim culture and tradition. These are unnatural deeds.”

    Now can you tell me whether education is working for muslims ?

    Are muslims above the highest court of land ?

    Eduaction working but in a reverse way for muslims….

    here the link

    http://www.thehindu.com/2010/02/25/stories/2010022562372200.htm

    “The mindset of a Bajrang Dal fanatic is not that much different from that of a member of SIMI

    There is lot of difference between SIMI and Bajrang Dal…some are

    Objectives and Ideology of SIMI

    1.Governing of human life on the basis of the Holy Quran

    2.Propagation of Islam …

    3.Jehad for the cause of Islam

    SIMI also attempts to utilize the youth in the propagation of Islam and also to mobilize support for Jihad and establish a Shariat-based Islamic rule through “Islami Inqulab”. As the organization does not believe in a nation-state, it does not believe in the Indian Constitution or the secular order. SIMI also regards idol worship as a sin and considers it to be a holy duty to terminate idol worship.

    SIMI is widely believed to be against Hinduism, western beliefs and ideals, as well as other ‘anti-Islamic cultures’. Among its various objectives, the SIMI aims to counter what it believes is the increasing moral degeneration, sexual anarchy in the Indian society as also the ‘insensitiveness’ of a ‘decadent’ west. Ideologically, SIMI maintains that the concepts of secularism, democracy and nationalism, keystones of the Indian Constitution, are antithetical to Islam. Parallel to its rejection of secularism, democracy and nationalism is its oft-repeated objective of restoration of the ‘khilafat’, emphasis on ‘ummah’ (Muslim brotherhood), and the need for a Jehad to establish the supremacy of Islam.

    Do some googling for terrorist activities propagated by SIMI…

    BTW i consider Bajrang Dal as reactionary force that emerged to counter the filth spread by islam…So in a way there is balance of power.

    See Gujarat has absolute peace after 2002. I think muslims understand the language of violence better than other ways…..

    So to counter terrorism following steps are needed

    1. Ban the manual of terrorism.
    2. declare islam a fascist political ideology..similar to nazism. and derecognise it as a religion
    3. Incentivise muslims to convert back to ancestoral religons else send them back to Arabia…whatever language they understand (violence or persuasion but prefer persuasion first )

    We can learn something from Swiss people, Quebec province, belgium etc

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Sanjeev
    the conflict between the man-made laws and religious doctrine is defintely detrimental to sane society. However, if you follow the recent Papal equivocation re’ paedophilia among the members of the clergy, the same issues are manifest in modern day Christianity too.
    Luckily, speaking against the Pope or savaging the conduct of the church in open fora does not attract cries of “kill kill”.
    @Mitra
    catching up. Excellent points. Some quick points though.
    1. You fall into the trap of trying to seem even handed and fair; why can’t we ever make an argument to the point in question without anticipating a question to our secular crednetials; and, must the same be established by making a point that “we” are equally to blame?
    2. For a context to the argument, you might want to read the article “Defaming religion” in the recent issue of the Economist.
    3. The issue is, as Sanjeev points out, the primacy that Quran holds in the life of a vast majority of Muslims. Education levels are irrelevant. All other communities find it easy to make peace with man-made laws of the land they inhabit.
    4. SKS referred you to websites of the so called moderate voices in the Muslim community in India and the Quranic references are from the officially sanctioned text of Al Azhar. Which Hindu/ Christian religious leader is taken seriously when he makes obscurantist demands?
    Where is the equivalence?

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ ashish

    From my personal experiences based upon as told by people of remote areas in Rajasthan, there were less of burkha and these hijab before the mad rush among Indian muslims for middle east……. began in the 1970’s.

    My father says he had never seen burkha among Rajasthani muslims..locally known as kyamkhani’s when he was young….

    What the muslims brought from middle east is burkha…

    further some of them dream of saudi style sharia also…:)

    Another thing i never observed among the muslims students of rural areas studying in govt schools and colleges in the same state…. any burkha or bearded mullah with skull cap and talibani dress ( with 3 quarter pyajama) in the remote areas….along barmer jaisalmer border…infact the outfit of all communities is very same and one can’t make distiction

    But I could enumerate many burkhas and taliban dresses in JNU than the number of students u will find students wearing such outfits and not interacting with other students ( as there is found in the universities in delhi..) such phenomena is nowhere visible in small colleges in semi urban areas

    I think the quality of education being provided by JNU, DU etc is far superior to any regional university …but in case of muslims it has been unable to open up their minds.

    In hostels of a university located at delhi you can clearly observe segragation …muslims sitting on a margin…only with muslims.

    Here also the education doesn’t seem to make any effect.

    I think education can’t do anything to muslims except that it will provide a mullah with a laptop and i-pod and sophisticated and innovative methods to assemble for namaj or ramdan .

    I think the need is more of what sultan shahin has pointed out

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264889

    Sultan Shahin is the editor of NewAgeIslam.com. The above is his oral statement to the Thirteenth session of UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on 16 March, 2010

    I don’t think any politican in India have guts to take on the islamic bull by its horn..

    so best is keep on waiting …when this jinn brought out by Muhammad(he in H…) will renter the bottle and we can seal the bottle for ever…for the sake of world peace

    Sasank Reply:

    Too bad. These AMU madarchods killed Siras.

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Mitra

    What I said was focus more on the comments than the article. I take it that you haven’t seen them. Just to clarify the idea wasn’t to not read the articles itself.

    Now bigots commenting here are Bigots, but they :
    - are not accompanying our PM in foreign delegations,
    - are not known to be from JNU and IIT faculties, and are not called for lecturing at
    seminars on democracy, terrorism etc,
    - are not called to TV studios to save the country from Hindu Communalism
    - do not include Kuldeep nayar,
    - they don’t get to write articles and editorials in our news papers (not even in
    milli gazette)
    - are not chairpersons of Anti communal forums of National Parties
    - are not even working for Hindustan Times

    ‘But the majority of the people in both the communities don’t support the bigots’

    Ooh, but we were never told about this, aren’t Secular Hindus in short-supply? Perhaps you don’t know enough about India, read international press. You will get to know that India is a country packed with Hindus fanatics. A society full of Bias against Muslims. You know what sacrifices made Azim Premji succeed? He followed the mantra: ‘that if you are a Muslim and want to be rich in India, you have to show you are very secular” . Not just that, it ends up in Mr Premzi not allowing Muslims in its top management. While people like Narayan Murthy can rule the roost while wearing saffron robes. Remember what happened to poor SRK? A man who was always fully secular was hounded just because he said something nice about Pakistani T20 players! .

    Take another example, ‘ Mr ‘x’ (an Indian Muslim) has set himself up well to succeed in India. He has completed his primary education, he speaks a little English, and he is now attending business college. Yet, every time he has looked to a future beyond the rickshaws and repair shops of Hyderabad’s Old City, he has seen only closed doors’. Do you know of any Hindus like that? Certainly not, most of the Hindus with similar credentials are working with top-notch corporate.!

    The root cause theory: opportunity to participate in and benefit from India’s economic growth, will save Muslims from Islamic fundamentalism. Well, the max that we can say as of now is that the jury is still out. Remember the doctor who tried bombing the Glasgow airport ? or the ‘Yahoo’ man from Pune? Or guys from Kerala who went to Kashmir? As far as Hindus are concerned, you must be aware of what our liberal and secular intellectuals think about the current generation of successful Hindus; software Nazis? US-NRIs, new age Brahmins etc. Their conclusion is simple, more prosperous Hindu is a more bigoted Hindu.

    ‘mindset of a Bajrang Dal fanatic is not that much different from that of a member of SIMI’. If so, ban Bajrang Dal by all means, but don’t make BD not being banned a legitimate cause for terror. But there are also vast differences between BD and SIMI:

    All the secular’ parties want BD to be banned (at times even BJP and RSS had to wash their hands off).

    Many secular parties and super secular leaders of other secular parties question the Ban on SIMI or seek its revocation.

    NGO industry with their celebrity activists, talk about SIMI only when charging the investigative agencies with communal bias, but frequently allege Hindutva hand, (supposedly based on their personal investigations) in most of the terror attacks, whether it is 26/11 or Mumbai train blasts.

    That Abhinava Bharat was found to be involved in Malegaon Blast is a manna from heaven for these phony activists and celebrities. Before Malegaon, they would only ask the investigators to look into Hindutva links for the terror attacks, but now they simply assert, (along with their celebrity activists) every terror act to be Hindutva’s work, it just does not matter to these charlatans that as per ATS itself, Abhinava Bharat’s targets included senior RSS and VHP leaders! It is all the same.

    IMO, there is a glut of respected (unfortunately though) voices criticizing Hindutva entities for their real and imaginary crimes which is clearly not the case with Islamist gangs. Hindutva is attacked for its intolerant ideology, while Islamist terror is rationalized through root cause and on top of that, you would find a disclaimer that it had nothing to do with ideology.

    See your case also, before you even talk about UCC, you must condemn RSS in the preceding or succeeding sentence, for what ? UCC

    Equivalence?

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Dear Dr. Mitra, I’m a trainee doctor myself (I won’t divulge the details as I can land in problems). Your notions are pretty noble. But lest you know this, sir. I’ve been iving with a Muslim roommate for last 3 years and some of his friends (99% of whom are Muslims) are known to me. I have no personal problems with any of them and though I am a Hindu by birth, in practice I am an agnostic and believe in the religion of Science. I truly despise VHP, RSS and other such right-wingers. But from my experience I can tell you this- no matter how educated and prosperous Muslims are, they always remain fundamentalists at core! Even in the horror days of November, 2008 when terrorists were murdering people- they never condemned them even once, even in private. Rather one of my seniors from this community was offering excuses and explanations of the conduct of the ‘joshilay’ (in his own words) terrorists! Very hurt and disturbed, I inadvertently suggested to one of them (doing MD in Physiology) that Islam needs reform and freedom from hardliner mullahs. His face was full of fury- of course, he would have used violence against me if he could- and he retorted- “Islam is the final, perfect religion. Quran can not be changed.” So, what inference do I derive from this episode? If people learning Medicine- which is still considered amongst the noblest of professions- are like this, what hopes do we have from the illiterate majority? And do the Islamic apologists really have an answer why I should not be wary and suspicious of Muslims?

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    @Bobby.
    have been away a while.. roti, rozi kaa sawaal hai.. the focus personally has shifted to the “Urgent” from the “Important” if you follow your Covey )-:
    have not had time to read all of the comments; but, this blog post has only confirmed my suspicion that Zia is trying to do what Khushwant did to Illustrated weekly or Vinod M did for Outlook; rake up controversy, and attract comments in droves (rumours are that Khushwant wrote many of the more outrageous comments himself)
    I personally see no point in wasting serious time on 2 people (even if they are public figures) who have decided to get married. Their problem. I had posted a link to MJA’s article, which was refreshing. The other piece is from my favourite satire website:
    http://www.fakingnews.com/2010/04/an-open-letter-to-shoaib-malik-hope-this-one-is-delivered/

    Now, Bobby, regarding your invitation to read Sasank’s background, I have 2 comments:
    1. Firstly, I think Sasank and you deserve one another. What would Zia do without the two of you? Thoda mirchi, thoda haldi.. keep at it and at each other. Keep the wordpress spam filter busy…
    2. RKM’s influence on Sasank: have you heard of the distinction between “because of” and “inspite of”? Or, is that, in the words of the author of this blog, “hair-splitting”?
    STATUTORY WARNING: Prolonged exposure to this blog is detrimental to your English.

    @Sasank,
    I am really impressed you think clearing CAT proves some kind of intellectual “mardangi”. Don’t they test you on 10th standard arithmetic and school level English?

    [Reply]

    Sasank Reply:

    @Ashish :

    Where did I say that clearing CAT is the ultimate test of mardangi ?

    I asked him to improve (not prove) his reasoning abilities(not math or english abilities) and then give CAT.

    btw , an article about the fundamentalist muslims of kerala : http://www.kuldipnayar.com/btl/Gujarat%20remains%20challenge%20to%20secularism.htm

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Dear Zia,

    You have not answered any of the issues which I had raised.

    Or maybe the points are so close to the truth that you could only dodge and pretend to be hurt.
    c’mon be a man… answer them.

    Or maybe you are scared of the fantics. That if you say something against the fatwa weilding brigade which controls the mind and takes away your rights, they would start chasing you?

    [Reply]

    Mohan Reply:

    Zia is an Indian Muslim who has succeeded in brain-washing himself. He has nothing of value to offer our country anymore … all hes doing is serving the “Ummah”. He will enjoy India and its rewards but will give nothing back to the society. I dont know whether to call him a parasite or a Trojan virus.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Dear Zia,

    I have a feeling that somehow Indian Muslims are made to feel that they are inferior to the imported Muslims in Saudia, in terms of purity. Or for that matter the community is somehow made to feel less pure as compared to Pakistanis.

    What else can explain the rampant exploitation of young Muslim girls starting from the age of 12-13 by visiting Arabs, some of whom are above the age of 80. A garb of religiosity is given by putting the issue under the ambit of special rights Muslim males enjoy under the personal code. Almost as if there is something special about the sperm being injected as being something holy…

    Do you agree with it? If so it is very sad. :( :(

    Why have you not reacted to a reader posting the HIndu newspapers report on the search of Hyderabadi boys for their Arab fathers?/ :)

    Can Muslims from India dare to this in Arab lands?

    It is all right to keep blaming the world for the problems which exist inside the community. But look inside. Reform.

    Have the courage to repudiate text and words written centuries ago.

    We are living in a country which aspires to be secular. Some Muslims , (not all) still find it more important to get entangled in issues which hurt the other communities.

    For example, it is all very nice to keep writing about jehad being waged only under special conditions. THen what prevents the believers from waging jehad against say Hafeez saeed and the terrorists in Kashmir or the Lashkar?

    If for example some of the Muslim youth of India start to take on the forces of evil from Pakistan who want to hurt our secularism, our democracy and our economy, it would indeed set a an example to
    the world.

    I think you should support such endevours. Rather than trying to justify Pakistani terrorism.

    :) :) :)

    Can you comment please?

    Think of a flower looking forward to

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Vijay kumar

    As I mentioned earlier, Mr Zia sees nothing in Quran that can be or should be questioned. In fact, he has told us in past that Wahabi Islam is not apparently about killing people and at a very non-theorised, mosque level understanding, Wahabis are only trying to eliminate some “corrupt” practices in day to day rituals.

    So, wait if you wish, but note the following:

    a) Zia’s introduction for this blog says ‘that Islam needs to be understood not feared, that he’s destined for bigger things, like taking the phobia out of Islamophobia!

    b) Mr. Zia also tells us in his intro to this blog that the next big jihad would be about reviving the reformist tradition in Islam and Reform is an Islamic process.

    Now, based on what he has written since starting this blog about a year ago (barring 2 or 3 exceptions), my conclusion is: either he is trying to take the phobia out of Islamophobia through this blog, (noble though ineffective, if we go by the responses here) or this is all there is to Islamic reforms, remember ‘Reform’ is an ‘Islamic Patent’?

    Now when I think about the Hindu caste system, I am glad that Mr Zia-style reforms are only an Islamic Process.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @SKS

    The basic issue is that if you have the freedom to convert, than you also need to have the freedom to get converted.

    George Bush was ready with an army of evangilists while OSama repeatedly wants to convert the Americans and the rest of the world to convert to his version of Islam. Unfortunately with each passing day the fanatics are getting closer to nuclear weapons.

    It would be sad if the whole world gets blown up, in this race to convert somebody from a religion which is not yours.

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    You are clearly out of touch. How many Indian states did you visit? How many Indians did you talk to?

    “Ordinary Pakistanis and Indians are friendly, respectful and really fond of one another. I have seen this at work many a time.”

    Not true. You saw it because (a) You are a Muslim and (b) You seem to be working in a cabal where “loving” Pakistan is in fashion. You work in a very small, hindi-speaking, “liberal” pond are are clearly out of touch with India.

    “It is this: never be apologetic about Pakistan. Do not be needlessly cynical about that country out of fear of being dubbed a traitor. You are not.”

    Wrong advice. This is your misguided personal opinion. Hindus judge Muslims based on what they think about Pakistan. If a Muslim loves Pakistan, then the general sentiment is, “Get out of my country and go live in Pakistan. What are you doing here?” It is this sentiment that ultimately translates into violence. Whatever you do, dont be seen supporting Pakistan. People are kind of “forgiving” Sania Mirza, because her marriage has degenerated in an Islamic tamasha and everybody is enjoying the show. This is not a “divine” love story – its a farcical Muslim limerick at best.

    “Radical Hindu groups could use her case to target all Indian Muslims yet again.”
    What you and other members of your small, out-of-touch herd (clearly Mr.Soofi is a member, as are several other bloggers in this small Delhi pond) need to understand is that its not just saffron-flag waving, mosque-demolishing, “radical hindu groups” anymore. I for instance, grew up in a very liberal atmosphere and some of my best friends were muslims. My mother was their mother and their mothers were my mother. Now, I avoid Muslims, their localities, and want them out of my country. I even avoid Muslims with whom I grew up – my best friends whos moms lovingly fed me yesterday. I still love them as individuals but I hate them as a collective. The main reason is that I perceive them as condoning and supporting the enemies of my country. Marrying Pakistanis or celebrating **** victories in cricket matches is not going to help. I may not go out on the street and beat anyone up – but dont under-estimate my complacence. I no longer passionately defend Muslims against the “Hindu lunatics”. I think secularism is a pipe-dream as long as Islam is around. I believe that Islamofacism is more than a stupid Bushism. As a Muslim, you need to be most afraid of people like me – because I understand you better than you can ever understand yourself. Because you are confused and I am not. Because I am highly educated and well read. Because my views may actually become policy tomorrow (corporate/state). Because I see you as a potential **** agent (are you not?). Because I will condone my government if it violates your rights in the interest of protecting the country against Islamic lunatics. That at the end of the day, is what people like you need to be afraid of. Show me how much you hate Pakistan and I will show you how much I hate the Hindutva groups. Otherwise, I want you out of my country. Go to Pakistan. What are you doing here? How can you love a country that wants to destroy us? Anyways, Sania Mirza has no idea how much damage she has done to Indian Muslims. But I find myself forgiving her – because of the entertainment value of the buffoonery that was her Nikah. Shoaib Malik looks like a fitting, uneducated idiot who is a perfect representative of Pakistan, the failed, backward, terrorist state. But I do want Sania to go live in Pakistan and start representing Pakistan – who now qualifies.

    Mohan Reply:

    Indians should never be apologetic about treating Muslims with suspicion.

  • Randhir

    the problem is intolerance and hatred taught by Pak for Hindus. Hindus have been decimated there and now in Kashmir. Muslims are putting by with Hindus in India just becos they have no other option right now ( except for terrorism). Islam, as a whole, is intolerant and unsecular. And Sania chose to marry a Muslim man from the most intolerant nation

    [Reply]

    MR. UK Reply:

    Shut up you mongrel Randhir…
    Dont forget your Bloody History how we kick your ace for 200 years..
    u and ur nation the so called Hindustan ….ur times over now….
    v are goona come their again….
    and every 1 knows what hindus can do just dancing , singing and acting …nasty shemales…
    and remember those mother ****** Pundits who Rape ur bloody Moms and Sisters every day are they not Terrorist….. Yah they are as u deserver the same….
    have Fun Son…!!!!

    [Reply]

    MR. UK Reply:

    To All Hindoos ( INDIANS)……
    Dont forget your Bloody History how we kick your Mom’s (india) ace for 200 years..
    u and ur nation the so called Hindustan ….ur times over now….
    v are goona come their again….
    and every 1 knows what hindus can do just dancing , singing and acting …nasty shemales…
    and remember those mother ****** Pundits who Rape ur bloody Moms and Sisters every day are they Secular….. Yah they are as u deserver the same….
    have Fun Sons…!!!!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Afeem Zyada ho gayi hai..

  • http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/04/12/india-pakistan-sania-shoaib-mania-rolls-on/ Global Voices Online » India, Pakistan: Sania-Shoaib Mania Rolls On

    [...] They call me muslim blog comments on the rationale behind the decision Sania Mirza took to marry Shoaib Malik: What can Indian Muslims learn from Sania’s very personal decision? It is this: never be apologetic about Pakistan. Do not be needlessly cynical about that country out of fear of being dubbed a traitor. You are not. [...]

  • SM

    Sania …….Exercise Daily,Otherwise you will have the same situation.

    [Reply]

  • Maulana Hakim

    She deserved to be betrayed by her actions.She has flourished using the resources of country ,supported by millions fans.She betrayed them,She will be betrayed

    [Reply]

    Amit Reply:

    “Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. ”

    And, I am personally convinced that Santa Claus delivers Christmas gifts. Zia has officially entered the la-la land that so many of our bleeding heart liberals inhabit.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Reply:

    Personally I am convinced that Zia is spreading propaganda. I wont call him “bleeding heart liberal” though … hes more of a closet fundamentalist. Certain neighbours would say that hes ripe for the plucking.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.yahoo.com MR. UK

    Sorry to all moderate Indians,,,

    I love you a lot……

    [Reply]

  • http://www.yahoo.com MR. INDIA

    Listen All Indians there…!!!!

    Mumbai Attacks are Self maked Drama by those extremist Hindus (SHEV SINA) and northern freedom fighters….. Just to presurize the Govt and get done their personal benefits and aims…..
    Plz donot blame on each other and try to realize the fact that who is getting benifits from such incidents…

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Hey u frustrated Pakii…

    Go lick bush’s bottom and now osama’s bottom…. all for a few drops of aid.

    Go blast yourself as a suicide bomber as ur madrassa teacher promioses a lot of fun with ur mother when u r gone…

    Ha ha ahaAAAh HA AHA AHHA :) HA AHA :) :) HHAAAA

    [Reply]

  • samuel

    Dear Indians and Dear Pakistani
    What is the huge issue about an Indian getting married to a pakistani or a pakistani gettin married to indian.. When you make movies about love pyaar ishq mohabbat n all. we all clap n enjoy when we see that..

    Why cant you take this as a normal issue. As long as Sohaib Malik and Sania Mirza is happy its all goood. ALL IZ WELL…

    take out the hatred feeling of ya hearts…..
    who ever talk about ISLAM leave it to GOD if she or he is wrong she or he will be punished in the Day of Judgement..
    If ya talking about INDIA OR PAKISTAN… it is a right of any citizen of a democratic country to get marry whoever a they wants.. As long as they agree to each other….

    PLEASE DONT BE RACIST..

    NONE OF YA”LL FIGHT FOR INDIA NOR PAKISTAN>>
    what ya guyz doin is ya promoting RACISM..

    LEARN YOUR RELIGION HINDUISM OR ISLAM OR WHATEVER and think…. i dont think any religion allow racism unless ya’ll following satanism…..

    Thank you…….
    Respect

    [Reply]

    samuel Reply:

    HAPPY MARRIED LIFE SOHAIB AND SANIA………
    MAY GOD BLESS YOU….

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Zia,

    After seeing the comments in “Trackback ” and from the tenor of the article, I feel you are pusshing Indian Muslims on the wrong track.

    Your line now is that Muslims should not be cynical of Pakistan, even if Hindus, Sikhs and Christians are. What a selfish thing to say!

    Indian Muslims have to sink and swim with India. When the forces of evil, the brainwashed fantics from Pakistan attack a Hindu, Sikh or a Christian in India and then claim that they are doing it on behalf of the Indian Muslims, then the indian Muslims should step out and deliver a resounding slap on the evil Pakistanis. Infact if they condemn Pakistan more than say HIndus, then the Indian Muslims are sending a message to the ISI and rulers of Pakistan that nothing can drive a wedge between Hindus and Muslims in India.

    It would only an inferiority complex which drives people to support their attackers. As Antulay and a section of the Urdu press do.

    Remember Pakistan is a theocratic military dictatorship most of the time. When two opposing forces meet — as it was in the cold war– one system collapses. let us make sure that we don’t become what they are.

    [Reply]

    MK Reply:

    Hi Samuel,

    I completely agree with you. While going through this blog, I was baffled over the responses because there’s something known as “having an opinion for yourself”

    Saniya has only gone ahead and married an individual she loved. Its her decision and she’s happy and end of matter. If someone’s against it…very well…dont marry a muslim yourself but what’s the point of this frustration.

    I’m happy for her. But yes, I do want her to play for India. This again does not come out of any despise against Pakistan. Its for a mere fact that she should be loyal to the country she’s been playing for since ages. That’s what we call being ethical. And somewhere I’m sure she would

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @samuel

    ‘i dont think any religion allow racism unless ya’ll following satanism’

    Do not Just think.
    First READ, then THINK and then enlighten us with your wisdom.

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    @samuel,

    you are wrong. Religions do allow racism. One prime example is Hinduism.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    so the nut case is back from arabia

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    To add a little more factual detail.

    Islam can flower in a democratic society like India. While Pakistan remains a state run by Dawood Ibrahim, Masood Azhar, Hafeez Saeed and thousands like him. It cannot play fair, ever.

    Remember in 1971, we captured 93000 Pakistani soldiers. We treated them well as POW’s and fed them and released them.

    Pakistan captured a few hundred Indians. It has still kept some of them in captivity and probably still torturing them.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ vijay

    here is the link how porkis fooled indians in 1971

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?478378

    [Reply]

  • Naveen Kumar

    ”Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. But that’s how it goes, with governments being governments and politics being politics.”

    Mr. Know All Haq, where are the evidences? You are nothing but a total nuts. You maybe convinced of lots of things but it doesn’t mean that u r right about everything. Looks like u r speaking the language of these ignoramus Pakistani ministers, who can only shout from their hips without talking anything concrete and meaningful.

    [Reply]

  • Ahmer

    Hey Zia.. I don’t get this… all types of nonsense comments are allowed here but any comment that counters that lunacy and hatred is not allowed?? Am I being censored? Who manages the blog’s comments anyway?

    Also… even I agree with the statement… infact… anyone with any understanding of global politics will atleast admit to a possibility (however small) of the following…

    ”Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan. But that’s how it goes, with governments being governments and politics being politics.”

    Think about it… do people really think RAW and IB… not to mention our Military Intelligence are weak and impotent… They can’t be sitting on their asses and doing nothing! We must be involved in some covert operations in Pakistan… What good are they otherwise… so if Zia says we too sponsor terror… well… I would re-phrase that… we balance their terror with a strategic doctrine of our own…

    Don’t forget… India covertly helped the Northern Alliance for almost 7 years in Afghanistan… and all that good will has been paying off since 2003 there…. No wonder Pakistan keeps crying to the US about ‘Indian Interests’ in Afghanistan! :-p

    [Reply]

  • syed

    Would the marriages of ,say, Dhoni to a Pakistani hindu or Danish Kaneria to an Indian hindu girl lead to the same reaction? Would it be insinuated that they are not as loyal to their country?

    We have, subconsciously, built in different yardsticks for different people.

    Some weeks back I had gone as an invited guest to the Pakistan Day celebrations in Perth. Later when I mentioned it to a hindu friend of mine, he gave me a strange look. I wonder whether he would have reacted the same if I had been a hindu.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Syed,

    Here the basic issue is the very nature of the vile Pakistani state which seems to revel in killing Indians and the concept of India as well as trying to kill humanity worldwide.

    Tell me one good thing Pakistan ever did for humanity ? Especially for a person who is not a Muslim. It even kills Muslims which do not fit into its propsed mainstream thought. Say Shia, Ahemadiyyas, Qadini etc.

    Further more it has been sponsoring terror in India and all over the world in the name of Islam. It is only giving Islam a bad name, which some Indian Muslims do not realise.

    Infact after every terror attack on India by the Pakistani fanatcis it would be nice if Indian Muslims were at the forefront of cursing Pakistan as well as taking some positive action against them. It would send an immediate message to the ISI and the Pakistani terror mafia like Hafeez Saeed that nothing can drive a wedge between HIndus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians of India.

    I think you should look at Pakistan from that angle. MOre confidently, since it has little to offer to Indian Muslims ideologically.

    Sometimes some Indian Muslims go overboard in felicitating Pakistani cricketers. But look at the attitude from the otherside. Imran Khan recently dismissed an opponent, who was a dark skinned Mohajir as “nothing but a child from Africa.” (You can read about this in the froth of khan, a blog by Nadeem Paracha in DAWN)

    The basic idea is that dont get scared or feel inferior in front of a Pakistani who may say that you are a lesser Muslim, since you are not a fanatic.

    I think Indian Muslims, by professing seculairsm can be a wonderful tool in making Pakistanis less fanatic and fundamantalist.

    You guys can be the toast of the Muslim community worldwide. Help them change.

    Go for it !! :) :) !!

    [Reply]

    syed Reply:

    @vijay kumar

    Well, I’ve no great opinion of Pakistanis. Their cuisine is excellent, however, which is one of the main reason why I went to the celebration & was not disappointed.

    Having had the chance to compare Indian and Pakistani muslims, I would say that Indian muslims are much more at home in a multicultural/multireligious environment. One good indicator is from the social gatherings hosted by both. Invitees at Indian muslims functions will always be an eclectic mix of locals, hindus & muslims.
    Pakistani functions comprise almost 100% pakistani muslims!

    [Reply]

  • charu

    most of person here are hindus thats why they r speaking that way. i m completely agree with zia huq. everyone speaks with his or her own experience. and i dnt have any prblm with u being a muslim. i respect ur religion as i respect mine. and to tell u i dnt believe in religion i believe in humanity.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ charu

    But muslims don’t respect other religions…according to them only their religion is true..others are damned to fire of hell ..

    you must be ignorant teenager..

    Yh you may not have problem unless some one of your dies or has been kicked by muslims as in kashmiri pandits…pathetic selfish..creature

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Dear Charu, first learn English properly and then venture out to support the Mujahideen. Actually, looking at your pathetic English, I suspect you are adopting a pseudonymous identity and you either belong to the ‘enlightened’ land of Pakistan or to the vast clan of covert pro-Pak muslims from our country! And too bad if you are a Hindu, because then you are as blind as a bat and as deaf as a beetle. Go meet some Kashmiri Pandits, Bangladeshi Hindus or mothers from Beslan to see the real face of the ‘peaceful’ religion! And read the Quran, the Hadiths and the Sirat yourself- the trilogy of Muslim cult- before opening your ignorant mouth.

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Or maybe she could just meet some of the muslim survivors from Gujarat (remember 2002?)…

    If Charu wants to respect fellow human beings let her… I’m Indian… happen to be Muslim… I don’t care what religion anyone is… I don’t judge people on the basis of that and most of the people I know don’t either…

    Its only people like you (Sanjeev & Prashant) that want to keep fighting… why don’t you just join the army and go fight on the border rather than creating divisions inside the country?!

    Now go on… attack me… I know you want to! :-p

    [Reply]

  • prashantkumar137

    And, my dear Ahmer, why do your sense of humanity and your patriotism vanish when your no.1 Imaam, Mr. Bukhari, proclaims from the Jama Masjid that he loves Pakistan and is an ISI agent and dares the dhimmi Indian government to touch him? Why not a word of condemnation and not even a show of solidarity to your Indian brethren when they get killed in terrorist attacks? Mind you, the inferno of Gujarat didn’t auto-ignite, it started from the immolation of innocent Hindus in that Godhra train your ‘angels of peace’ set on fire! Your taqqiya can fool only the idiotic and blind pseudo-seculars. Here are the official Central Govt. data on Gujarat riots- 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus. And these were perhaps the first riots of India where Muslim casualties were more than the Hindu ones. Everyday I read some articles or hear some comments from prominent people amongst Hindus condemning the Gujarat riots and the supposed inadequacy of Modi govt. in wake of the riots. However, in all these years I’ve not come acrooss a single piece written by a Muslim about the massacre of at least 50,000 Hindus in a single day in ‘Direct Action’ by Mohammedans incited by Suhrawardy in 1947. Or for that matter, condemnation of rape and massacre of schholchildren in Beslan by Muslims. One person- Taslima- dared to write about the persecution, rape and murder of Hindus in Bangladesh and now look at her! She is a living proof of the ‘tolerance’ of Islam that Zia is advertising through his propaganda blog! HT simply had no other recourse than to offer him their platform, or else citing his oppression he could have requested his friends in IM to give them a taste of Islamic medicine!

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Hahaha… and you prove me right… you are just like a Jehadi… right wing and stupid… now let me dissect your rant bit by bit…

    Mr. Bhukhari is not… read again… NOT MY IMAM! I think he is an idiot! He needs to keep his mouth shut and keep to what his job is… whatever it is… so… your efforts to link me with him fail right there… Hawwww… whats this… not able to generalise me?! SHITE! :-p

    “Why not a word of condemnation and not even a show of solidarity to your Indian brethren when they get killed in terrorist attacks?”

    Why should I try and specially condemn anything just to prove my loyalties to you?! I don’t have to… I feel the same as any Indian and if my govt. condemns on our behalf then they condemn on all our behalf… Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Jain… everyone… so I don’t need to prove anything here… why don’t you start asking all Sikhs and Christians also next to start condemning things every time something goes wrong?! You make the MISTAKE OF EQUATING ALL INDIAN MUSLIMS WITH PAKISTAN and PAKISTANI SPONSORED TERRORISTS!

    Thats mistake number two on YOUR part!

    “Mind you, the inferno of Gujarat didn’t auto-ignite, it started from the immolation of innocent Hindus in that Godhra train your ‘angels of peace’ set on fire!”

    My angels?! wow… the problem with the riots in Gujarat was that your angel Modi and his goons went after all Muslims just to kill them for a crime that was committed by some one else… DID THE RESIDENTS OF GULMARG SOCIETY BURN THAT TRAIN?! Whats justifies their murder?! Your fascist idiots don’t think the state or central govt. could have found the real culprits and punish them?! NO?! YOU HAD TO MURDER INNOCENT CIVILIANS… why? BECAUSE YOU EQUATE PEOPLE BASED ON RELIGION?!

    So Madhuri Gupta was caught spying for Pakistan… should we hang you Prashant? You are also… after all a Hindu like her… wow… your theory! :-p

    “However, in all these years I’ve not come acrooss a single piece written by a Muslim about the massacre of at least 50,000 Hindus in a single day in ‘Direct Action’ by Mohammedans incited by Suhrawardy in 1947. Or for that matter, condemnation of rape and massacre of schholchildren in Beslan by Muslims. One person”

    Lets not even talk about 1947… people on both sides got killed in this needlessly… those who had to go… went away… People like you just dig up one side of the story and start yelling INJUSTICE INJUSTICE… but why should an Indian Muslim from today care anymore for what happened in the past any more than an Indian Hindu?! Why do you need… NEED… approval of your hurt from a muslim?!

    “One person- Taslima- dared to write about the persecution, rape and murder of Hindus in Bangladesh and now look at her! She is a living proof of the ‘tolerance’ of Islam that Zia is advertising through his propaganda blog! HT simply had no other recourse than to offer him their platform, or else citing his oppression he could have requested his friends in IM to give them a taste of Islamic medicine!”

    What happened to Taslima is very wrong… and to think even our government could not help her against right wing fundamentalists is even worse… Again your mistake here is you are joining the politics and hypocrisy of the Bangla govt with Muslims and Islam in India… why? They have nothing to do with each other! And many times even I don’t agree with what Zia has to say but everyone is entitled to his or her opinion… if you don’t like that… go join the Taliban than live here in our Indian democracy… maybe you’ll have more things in common with them!

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Don’t spread bogus propaganda! Madhuri Gupta betrayed the nation only after converting to Islam six years ago which teaches deception and treachery (TAQIYA). Google the words “Madhuri Gupta converted” and look for the press coverage all of you! Bloody liar!

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Also, don’t try to mislead and fool the gullible pseudo-seculars by citing the name of David Headley as many of you co-taqiyaists are doing at the moment! His real name is Daood Syed Gilani, for God’s sake!

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    What David Headley?! I never mentioned David Headley… were you drunk when you wrote that?

    Also, Do you believe everything you read on the internet… If Madhuri Gupta had converted (even though that doesn’t matter because you totally missed the point) then there ought to be some proof now isnt there?! The investigators haven’t found concrete evidence yet (yes, other people have access to information too) but Prashant Kumar knows 100% because he ‘Googled’ it! Ha! :-D

    Also where is the propaganda? I’m not inciting people… or telling them stories or accusing one group of doing wrong… I thought I was having a debate… show me the propaganda… do you even know what that word means?

    And did I make you angry? Did I?! Cause that last bloody liar thing was flying out for no reason… what did I lie about? Again… I haven’t declared anything… Go on now…. run to your fundamentalist right wing jehadi masters and cry for help…

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    You were going to cite his name as an example of a “non-muslim terrorist”! So, I gave you a warning in advance! Come on you follower of a pedo prophet!

    Ahmer Reply:

    No I wasn’t… he wasn’t relevant to the discussion… And for your information… I’m not a follower of a pedo prophet…

    I don’t believe in god and I think religion (all of them) should just be done away with. That said I’ll write again what I first wrote…

    You assume too much…

    you have this us vs. them mentality and try to see everything in black and white… so far you’ve tried to define me as a backward thinking, faith defending Muslim just based on my name. Its sad because there is so much more to people than just their religion!

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ahmer
    ” Its sad because there is so much more to people than just their religion!”
    Love you!

    Ahmer Reply:

    @ Ashish

    Haha! :-D

  • prashantkumar137

    Look at this anti-national terrorist sympathiser- “Personally, I am convinced that India’s intelligence agencies too sponsor terror in Pakistan”! And the biggest shame is on our anti-Indian, anti-Hindu English media that easily provides a platform for spreading all sorts of propaganda to these treacherous fanatics in the garb of “moderate Muslim”. And while they allow full articles and blogs by such dangerous people, they will delete the comments of Hindus and loyal Indians in the name of moderation. And since the entire govt. machinery is full of anti-Indian dhimmis, it’s no use lodging a complaint anywhere! HT editorial board and Mr. Zia and men of his ilk, if you have guts to face the truth, at least have this much fairness to allow opposing comments, too! Or else, go live in Pakistan with your ancestors!

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Again… really dumb…

    A simple question Prashant… DO YOU THINK RAW AND IB AND ALL OUR INDIAN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ARE IMPOTENT AND USELESS??

    Think about it… ofcourse we do missions in Pakistan… Zia calls it terror.. I would say… espionage…

    And how does this make anything anti-Hindu?! Why are you such a cry baby?

    And FYI… I was able to leave comments here only after a lot of complaining… and I’m not Hindu… hawww… another theory fail?!?! :-p

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    Ahmer,

    I wish and hope that a lot more MUslims defend their Indianess as vigourously as you do….:)

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Yea… thats a tricky one isn’t it… if I don’t say anything then it keeps bothering me… if I say… then it seems like I’m defending my ‘Indian-ness’….

    Hmmm… anyhow… its not worth the bother… so I think I’ll just let it be for now…

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Lyrics of a popular song from Belgium-
    They tried to tell me
    my religion was wrong.

    They tried to tell me
    to follow Islam.

    They said their “Prophet”
    was a righteous dude,

    But I found out
    none of their words were true.

    I read the Qur’an
    and I read the Hadith,

    And the sickness of Mohammed
    was apparent to me.

    He justified perversion
    in the name of Allah,

    When he married a girl
    too young for a bra.

    She was playing with dolls
    when the “Prophet” came.

    Her childhood was stolen
    in Allah’s name.

    Aisha was nine
    when he took her to bed.

    Don’t tell me that fool’s
    not sick in the head.

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester, sex offender, Prophet pretender.

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester! Islam’s not for me!

    Islam’s not for me!

    The sickness of
    the Islamic mind,

    Has caused some mullas
    to be blind.

    To justify their “Prophet”
    they will justify sin,

    So the sins of the “Prophet”
    are repeated again.

    All over the world
    in Islamic states,

    Nine year old girls
    suffer cruel fate,

    Sold into marriage
    to twisted men,

    And Aisha’s sad story
    is repeated again.

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester, sex offender, Prophet pretender.

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester! Islam’s not for me!

    Islam’s not for me!

    Do you care about women
    all over the world?

    Do you care about those
    little girls?

    Better stand up and fight
    for human rights,

    Speak out against
    the laws of Islam!

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester, sex offender, Prophet pretender.

    I ain’’t gonna follow no child molester! Islam’s not for me!

    Islam’s not for me!

    Islam’s not for me!

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Hahaha… when all else fails look to the west…. divide and rule… spread hate! :-p

  • http://tradersutra.com h mani

    dear zia,I READ YOUR COLUMN,YOU ARE A GOOD MAN COUGHT,OR TANGLED UP,YOU ARE DAMNED,IF YOU ANSWER ,DAMNED IF YOU DON’T.I CAN ANSWER YOUR PRIDICTMENT IN NEXT TO NO TIME,FIRST I’M AN AMERICAN,LIVE IN THE LAND OF FREE AND BRAVE,I’M NAIVE TO BELIEVE THIS ,YES,I HAVE LIVED HERE FOR 45 YEARS OF MY 70 YEARS AND I’M PROUD TO STATE NO ONE HAS GAGGED ME WITH A POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF MY WIFE,THEY NAG AND GAG EVERY ONE,THIS IS TOPIC FOR ANOTHER DAY.NO GOOD MUSLIM CAN EVER EVEN MILDLY REPUDIATE ANYTHING IN QURON OR MOHAMUD AND LIVE TO TELL A TALE IN ANY SOCIETY,NOT EVEN IN INDIA THE SO CALLEDSECULAR INDIA,SO WHO WILL BELL THE CAT,MUSLIMS CAN NOT,SECULAR WON’T,WEST HAVE ALREDY RATTLED THE CAGES OF ISLAM NEEDLESSLY,OR MARGINALLY ,9/11 NOT WITHSTANDING,THEY ARE FULL APESEMENT MODE,SO WILL BRING REFORMATION IN ISLAMIC WORLD,YOU ARE NAIVE ENOUGH TO SAY ISLAM IS 100% PERFECT AND NEEDS NO REFORM,IF SO PL LOOK AROUD ALL ISLAMIC COUNTRIES WITH POSSIBLE EXCEPTION I SAID POSSIBLE,TURKEY AND THEY ARE EITHER ON DOLES,DICTATORSHIP,SOMALIA BEING WORST,IT LOOKS ALMOST HOPELESS.ONE WHETHER MUSLIM OR ANY RELIGION ANYWHER.

    [Reply]

  • http://tradersutra.com h mani

    TO CONTINUE FROM WHERE I LEFT OFF,YOU ARE IN PICKLE,AND I WOULD BE TOO,IF I’M NOT TREATENED BY RIOTS,MURDER,TERRORISM AND OUTRIGHT VI0LANCE AT THE DROP OF HAT,I DON’T HAVE ONE MEAN BONE IN ME,BUT I WILL NOT HESITATE TO CALL SPADE A SPADE,I WROTE PERSONALLY TO WHITE HOUSE ABOUT NEEDLESS NATURE OF IRAQ WAR AND CONTINUED OPERATION IN AFGHANISTAN,IT IS FUTILE AND WILL ONLY MAKE MATTERS,WORSE,YOU CAN NOT FRIGHTEN PEOPLE WHO EMBRACE DEATH,LOVE IT MORE THAN LIFE,YOU CAN ONLY CONTAIN THEM.YES ISLAMIC WORLD WAS GIVEN A RAW DEAL,JEWS WERE PUT IN OVENS,INDIA AND HINDUS FORCEABLY CONVERTED(you may say all muslims either became WILLINGLY OR I’M A BIASED MORAN,OR THEY CAME FROM SAUDI ARABIA,)IN ANY CASE,I’M CONVINCED IN MY LIFE TIME NO CHANGE,DID NOT CHANGE IN 1300 YEARS,BECAUSE THERE IS NO NEED TO,THAT IS WHAT ISLAMIC SCHOLORS SAY,IN FACT THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT ISLAMIC ENOUGH,GO BACK TO REAL ISLAM,ALL WILL BE WELL,IS IT??zia,i feel for muslims who were left behind in 47,and are in constant pressure to prove they are not GADDARS,IT IS TREMENDOUS BURDEN TO PROVE NEGATIVE,SO MY PAIN,EMPATHY AND SYMPATHY FOR YOU,SANIA AND THE POOR HUSBAND OF HERS WHO IS COUGHT IN CROSSS FIRE,YOU KNOW I ANALYSE THE FOLLY OF POLITICIANS,BAFOOR DICL IN 1917,APROVING JEWISH PROMISED LAND,BREAKING INDIA FOR WRONG REASONS(muslims deserve a piece of the pie namely pakistan)MR Jinnah was right in protecting the welfare of the muslims,but the indian leadership of gandhi particularly MR Nehru screwed up royally in bad faith negotiation without adequate preparation of exchange of population and peaceful transfer of civilians,and you know mascre came and the bad blood forever and poor innocent left behind muslims hostage for ever,lincoln said neither a slave or master,hence my understanding the plight of emotional strain all good muslim like you,sania,srk,and scores of othersface in everyday india and 9/11 put pressure on all muslims abroad,you have to travel and have friends and be honest to know the truth,to begin with truth ,it is the most illusive of all things,for we all think we have the monopoly on it.Zia,I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU CAN HACK IT,IT IS NOT YOU ARE FLAWED,YOUR TASK IS BEYOND ORDINARY MORTEL.IF YOU CHANGE,MARGINALLY ISLAM,I SHALL CHEER YOU ON,COUNT ON IT,I’M LOOKING FOR SUCH A MESSIAHA,LIKE THE SECOND COMING ,IT WILL BE A VERY COLD DAY IN HELL..SORRY TO TELL AS IT IS.IT IS WHAT IT IS.AT LEAST YOU TRY.

    [Reply]

  • http://tradersutra.com h mani

    i eran,out of space,i could not complete my chain of thought,no religion is inherantly evil,buddism is basically non violent,chirtians more assertive and if need be violent,(DO NOT DISPUTE IT FIRST AND SECOND WORLD WAR STARTED BY WEST,FOR WEST AND OF BY WEST),islam is for *** for tat,which means violence,(again do not argue i have tons of acts of violence not withstanding jews brought down towers in 9/11,**** which only fools in west banks and hammas in private do not believe it),now where do we begin,should we go on with osama and pak military or learn to have a agreement where we do not commit acts of terrorism,live like british and french, they were more bitter enemies than we ever were,by constantly repeating we are peaceful ,does not become so,a religion is judged by what the followers do,it is how people,country civilizations and cultures are judged.that is fact,that how world works,and cribbing about it or pr work won’t work,no amount of pr work will convince americans to drop their guard,india,secular congress does it and the poor masses of india pay with their blood,so far i have stayed with facts,no axe to grind,as earlier i had said muslims are forbidden to say or contidict quran or mohamud,you can not even say his marriage to child Ayisa was wrong,but historical fact,he married her in year 622a.d.,and when mohamud passed away on june 8th 632 ad,she was entering or completing 18 years.she was born in 614 ,that makes him in 622 ,52 years old,and the hadits say he consumated in 625,that is he was 54,every one knows she was his favorite wife,he died on her lap(peace be upon him),i have no problem him married 10 times(including Khadija),and had at least 2 mistresses,one jewish,one christian,at least he was equal oppertunaty ,fair minded,he did not know about hindu or buddist,allah did not or forgot or hindus and buddist,idol worshippers and did not merit to decorate the holy prophet(P B U H ) so great Allah in his wisdom forgot to tell him,there no quron ayat,or sura anywhere which deserves mention in quron,i do not know do i cry or rejoice at non mention.of hindus.now if sri rama did this ,or Jesus,or Budha ,did this the secular and the liberals will have field day,but neither the muslim(they are forbidden to say anything negative),nor any one can say it,the guy will be crusified with longer rusted nail,why i have gone on,there is method to my madness,i have no malice for any one,I’m a student of history and i do research and want islam to be critical nation of thinking people,they can muzzle their own,but they can not stop people free soceity from learning facts,we take to tasks our govt,our president,remember we hounded mr Nixon out office,and we are strong because of it not weak,self look in is good for individuals as well as people at large,that is in essence the problem with islamic UMMA.Hope i did not bore you with facts,I welcome any one to refute me with facts,remember faul language is the last resort of fools and ignorant.YOU kid me asking for my picture??I’m neither brave or reckless.hope I made zia happy today.

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Now I don’t see any muslim replying it! Come on Ahmer, Booby (sorry, Bobby), Akash, Syed et al, where are you hiding?

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    While you gleefully rub your hands and widen your eyes at a show down Prashant let me just tell you there is no reason to reply. Mani raises a lot of points… many I agree with, some I don’t but I do respect his complex understanding and ability to be rational and objective.

    Something that cannot be said about you.

    [Reply]

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    You still circumvented the central question about your prophet Mr. Mani raised. Now that is called an escapist attitude, or may be it’s selective deafness and blindness that grips Muslims when it comes to the deplorable deeds of their mentally sick false prophet!

    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Now you will try to come out with white lies and will try to distort facts. But your ancestors were, or even your contemporaries like Khomeini are, never apologetic about Mohd.’s pedophila! Some of you, when you came in contact with the civilised world, did feel ashamed at it and so have been trying to invent lies to disprove the facts. But there is little you can do, as Koran and Islam can’t be changed! The facts are there in Koran as well as the first biography of Mo by Ibn Ishaq- Sirat Rasul Allah, which is one of the three sacred texts of your cult.

    Ahmer Reply:

    “You still circumvented the central question about your prophet Mr. Mani raised. Now that is called an escapist attitude, or may be it’s selective deafness and blindness that grips Muslims when it comes to the deplorable deeds of their mentally sick false prophet!”

    OK… for the last time and only because you have difficulty understanding (either you don’t read replies left for you else where or you choose to ignore them) I’ll write again and I’ll write it simpler…

    I, personally, DO-NOT believe God of any kind exists… I think religion is all hocus pocus rubbish (all of them)! So I don’t want to and I don’t need to defend anything! Because… yes… thats right… I DON’T BELIEVE IN IT!

    “Now you will try to come out with white lies and will try to distort facts.”

    A lot of people, who believe in religion and the prophet might want to reply to Mani but I DON’T CARE… its his understanding and I respect that. There is not issue there.

    So what are you on about?! In fact… to help you I’ll copy and paste what I wrote earlier… please read it this time:

    “Mani raises a lot of points… many I agree with, some I don’t but I do respect his complex understanding and ability to be rational and objective.

    Something that cannot be said about you.”

    Something that CANNOT be said about you AT ALL!

    Ahmer Reply:

    Taliban: “Non Muslims are bad, non muslims are evil, we should destroy all non muslims!”

    Prashantkumar137: “Muslims are bad, muslims are evil, we should destroy all muslims!”

    Religion and its fanatics… all the same! :-D

  • http://tradersutra.com h.mani

    sania lives in a free country,she is adult,has right to marry any one that includes pakistani.the whole affair does not look kosher,as the bride groom denied marrying,miss sidiqee first,then there waiting period after the divorce,in islam for both widow’s remarriage and divorcees,none of that was followed,either you follow or don’t that is not left to self,there are strict rules,it smells,her later statement she knew her lovers for a while she was engaged to her boywood pal,then breaking it,she does not come out smelling like rose ,that’s for sure.if anyone who came out with honor and his dignity intact was her pal,who walked away saying nothing.yes ,she deserve to be happy,we americans like 2nd chance for every one,especially to woman they are emotional lot and they alway get firstime wrong.she must not look for publecity ,just low profile,i doubt it,but she will do what she normally does,can not teach new tricks to old d—.

    [Reply]

  • Aman

    While Sania can marry anyone she wants its a personal decision.
    Your statement (without any proof whatsoever) that in your belief Indian government sponsors terrorism in Pakistan in my opinion is un warranted and unpatriotic.
    Had that been the case, Baluchistan would have been free by now or a large portion of Pak army would have been in Balochistan. (Considering you are referring to Baloch here, If not then in my opinion its unacceptable to say that India sponsors pak taliban.)

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    Have often wondered how the contents of terror alerts, sensitive intelligence by any standards, make their way into the media after each blast.

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