Kill Bill, for men’s and women’s sake



Amid riotous scenes, India’s upper house passed a controversial legislation to reserve a third of seats in federal and state legislatures for women. The constitutional amendment “one that changes the scope of India’s Constitution” is likely to scrape through the powerful lower house, too. Despite overreaching itself, the government of the day will probably survive.

In principle, empowering women is the way to go. Yet this triumph is a zero-sum game. One participant’s gains can come only from another’s equivalent losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter.

This bill is deeply flawed because collateral damages have not been addressed. Since it will be a zero-sum game, it will have a direct bearing on representations of minority communities, backward castes and marginalized women themselves. The Bill is anti-minority, anti-backwards, and both anti-women and anti-men.

In a largely risk-averse political system, Congress chief Sonia Gandhi can take the credit for pulling out a Bill that previous governments “including those run by her own party” had abandoned, and for driving it past dissenters whom she may in future need.

Imposing a 33 per cent quota seems momentous in a country where female foetuses are aborted, wives spanked and women are paid less than a third the male average in unorganized jobs. In reality, the quota can add to the sort of disequilibrium current legislatures are made of.

Even setting aside the fact that some male MPs will naturally have to step down for women, the proposed law fundamentally changes the basic nature of India’s electoral representation.

With a 15-year shelf-life, 33 per cent of the seats will be blocked in rotation and will be done in a way that a seat shall be reserved once in three back-to-back elections. The revolving quota is the Bill’s most serious flaw.

Two-thirds of candidates, men and women, will be unseated every time and one-thirds will have no chance of being re-elected from the same seat. This one-third will be left wondering if they will get to retain their seats, depending on the outcome of the lottery.

On the whole, it will set off largescale churning “every single time” that will make elections farcical. Electors will vote in, rather than vote out incompetent representatives. With frequently changing representatives, what would voters go by in deciding whom to elect?

The role of past performance in deciding a candidate’s fate will be further lessened, thereby blunting the only weapon the common man has. Constituencies will cease to matter for candidates. The veterans and more guile among candidates will resettle themselves, pushing out less iconic politicians.

Accountability will suffer because a candidate will less likely go to the same voter every time. The voters’ powers to rate a candidate’s performance will diminish, paving the way for a greater role of money in deciding electoral outcomes.

A “sense of belonging” is part and parcel of Indian politics. Constituencies are nursed by politicians who invest time, efforts and money into the place they hope to get elected from.

Can we have compelling women leaders if they do not have strong permanent political bases? The current Bill is paternalistic; it seeks to make rolling-stone politicians of women, or “one-time players”, to use women activist Madhu Kishwar’ words.

Several women’s rights organisations have highlighted these fault lines. NGO Manushi advocates an alternative Bill, requiring political parties to reserve nominations (tickets) for women, not seats. Feminist fundamentalists, however, in their zeal, have failed to appreciate the serious weaknesses hidden in the proposed amendment.

Though it will not exactly result in separate electorates, the women’s reservation Bill, in spirit, moves towards that direction. But proponents of the Bill deny such a possibility. Separate electorates, theoretically, are those where electors and the elected belong to the same community, sex or caste.

The Constituent Assembly “which served as India’s first Parliament until it framed the Constitution” had overturned separate electorates granted by the British government to minorities, especially Muslims and Sikhs.,

Framers of the Constitution opted to keep the highest elected institution free from preferential treatment, preferring the “first past the post system”over proportional representation, save for time-bound reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable them to overcome disadvantages.

The Constituent Assembly initially included minority safeguards in its Report on Minority Rights adopted in August 1947 and in the Draft Constitution’s Part XIV. However, subsequent nationalist arguments “situated in the immediate past history of Partition” paved the way for a reversal of minority safeguards.

The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based on caste and religion, and religion-based separate electorates had been the immediate trigger for Partition. With the Muslim League and the Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim and Sikh acquiescence on reversing minority safeguards was ultimately secured.

The reversal was done by a close vote in the Constituent Assembly Advisory Committee meeting, but key Muslim leaders, including Congress leader Maulana Azad, abstained. (R. Retzlaff points out in “The Problem of Communal Minorities in the Drafting of the Indian Constitution” that the Constitution would have included political safeguards for religious minorities had framing been completed during the initial timetable fixed for it. Also see Rochana Bajpai’s Minority Rights in Indian Constitution, Working Paper 30).

If the women’s Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not separate electorates but reserved seats.

In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in women’s reservation.

Muslim representation in the federal legislature is dwindling: from 48 in 1985, it is 29 at present. In all 15 Lok Sabha elections, only 14 Muslim women have been elected. Kerala has two Muslim federal lawmakers, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh have 1 each. States such as Mahrashtra, Gujarat, Haryana and Rajasthan have none..

The women’s reservation Bill is based on the presumption of homogeneity in the status of women. Homogeneity is a stupid idea when applied to assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like Muslims, are equally disadvantaged or privileged.

Since privileged groups are always in a better position to leverage concessions, the proposed amendment will help privileged women gain at the expense of less-privileged ones. Though ideally, the highest elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been pragmatic.

The Congress, at his stage, clearly has not thought of the jigsaw puzzle that awaits it. It is simply basking in the glory of a political stunt. The BJP has eyes set on inroads through upper-caste women. The Left’s euphoria matches Abdullah’s in this Urdu proverb: begaani shaadi me Abdullah diwana (Abdullah is rejoicing at an uninvited wedding).

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  • Gopi Thomas

    Churning, short terms etc are good; and an increased representation for women is even better. Democracy works through elected representatives voting on changes and issues. I do hope Lok Sabha votes for this; and if they do, I hope people like Zia will shut up. These are the same people who want reservation for this group of people and that group of people; what is wrong with having seats reserved for women?

    Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years, and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do good.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Bhatia Reply:

    Gopi, you are arguing in favor of increased representation of women in Parliament and Assemblies. That of course is very much desirable. But this bill, in its current form is a sure prescription of political chaos.
    What this bill means is that no male leader can represent same constituency more than twice! And this will do no long term good for women politicians either. Because, before they can gain ground and experience, they will have to move on, since in next election cycle the seat won’t be reserved!

    Here is a very Rational take on this important issue (feel free to comment):-

    http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

    [Reply]

    Vijay Reply:

    No one is arguing against a bigger representation by omen in Parliament and assemblies will be good. The debate is about how to achieve it.
    The bill in its current form is sure recipe for political chaos.
    Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-

    http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

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    Bell Bajao Reply:

    “Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years, and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do good.”

    Indeed! We’ve seen this happen in other parts of the company as well. Reservation in panchayat has actually empowered women in villages and has helped a lot in their upliftment.

    [Reply]

    d.art Reply:

    — why not force political parties to field 33% women. why 33% in parliment.
    again goes back to quota within quota for religion / caste combination). it was women self help group which helped a lot.

    [Reply]

  • VARUN SAXENA

    Mr.Zia, the bill has certain Issues and to a certain the bill proposed by Madhu Kishwar is in someways better.
    But what I cannot understand is this. You said “The Bill is anti-minority, anti-backward”. Can you pls explain How ?

    How can women reservation bill be Anti Muslim ? How come just about everything becomes Anti Muslim ?

    I hope this bill passes with some modifications and not the modifications which Mulayam and Laloo are suggesting but the ones suggested by Learned People.
    The only reason Mulayam and Laloo are against this Bill is that most of the MPs’ of these 2 parties are big goons and only through these goondaism of these goons alongwith folling Muslims and Lower Castes by pitting them against Upper Castes do they win elections.
    Now it can be safely said that more than 95% goons in INDIA would be men. Henceforth with Women having 33% reservations the chances of these parties winning Elections will be inversely affected

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    prashantkumar137 Reply:

    Look at the language of the headline- “KILL bill”! Muslims like Zia, no matter how hard they try to put on the fake charade of ‘moderate muslim’ and pass themselves as decent human beings, their language and/or deeds betray their inner intentions! Quite in keeping with the grand and ‘peaceful’ tradition of the cult of Izzlam, I would say!

    [Reply]

    ram Reply:

    How did you forget that everything that is progressive is anti-minority (actually only anti-muslim)! And the Muslims have have turned this so-called minority status into a bigger advantage than even absolute majority! And they don’t consider the true minorities of India (the Sikh, Jains, Bauddhas, Parsis and Jews) as minorities as Muslims have usurped all their share! They have bolted this fake “persecution complex” deep into their collective cerebrum. So you see everytime 26/11, Mumbai train blasts, 9/11, Times Square bombing etc. occur, the Muslims start ranting and raving how apprehensive they are! Cheats! What tactics! Blow up innocent people from the majority community of the very nation that feeds you, and then get govt. protection by crying “apprehension, persecution and blah, blah, blah”! And I used to feel sad about Gujarat riots, but now let me tell you frankly- that was one instance where the second part of their plan- namely, getting govt. protection after burning Hindus at Godhra- didn’t work because of a right-wing govt. And it has gone a long way to ensure that Muslims won’t dare to repeat a Godhra for the next 100 years in Gujarat! And I don’t blame Gujarat riots for subsequent acts of terror by Moslems, was there any less terrorism before 2002?

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  • Ashish

    I agree that while the objective is laudable, the bill as it stands today is deeply flawed. I am not comfortable with the idea of having no power over my MP (man or woman) who knows that he/ she will not need my vote next time.
    I liked the arguments put forward by Karan Thapar favouring changes to the bill in his column earlier today.
    Am I against reserving seats for women? No, I am not. But, this bill in its present form; no, it does not appeal to me. MPs are not IAS officers that they can serve one constituency (district) for 2 terms and then move to another one for the next terms.
    However, trust Zia to use the Women’s reservation bill to ask for reservations for Muslims.
    Way to go Zia; suck up to Mulayam now. Who knows, he might make you an MLA/ MP from Delhi.

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  • Vini

    The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men’s sake. After all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah, blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don’t want to share power with women. Ever.

    Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without killing the Bill.

    What I want to say here first is that I take extreme offense at the use of the word ‘spanking’ to trivialize a serious issue like domestic violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not. That’s why you treat it so flippantly.

    As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the doomsayers don’t know if this bill will work till it is implemented. It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over by elite women. So far it’s been elite men in charge.. so what’s wrong with elite women having a go?

    As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill’s most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is, MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully done.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Vini,
    Mr Zia can’t just win, can he :-) ?
    For the first time, Zia tried arguing for the majority (men!). And, still, he finds very few supporters!

    Not speaking for Zia here; just speaking for myself.
    I support the objectives behind the bill; as a man. I see in India a huge need to balance the power structure which is so tilted in favour of men. Also, as others have pointed out in comments, an increased representation for women is inversely correlated (or so we hope) to the criminality quotient of our legislatures.
    I do not wish this bill to be killed. I do however wish this bill to be amended to somehow handle the rotation issue. Like I had said, Karan Thapar made some excellent suggestions. So did the legal cell head of the Shiv Sena on TV.
    Ma’am, most men on this blog are not against the bill; please do not make the mistake of thinking men oppose the bill. Far from it. Certainly not because we will lose a chance to be an MP/ MLA… I doubt any of us commenting here have realistically ever thought of contesting elections.
    All men are not Laloo Yadav/ Sharad Yadav/ Mulayam Yadav.. luckily all women are not Mayawati, Mamata or Jayalalitha either :-) who promote women even less than men do.
    May I also mention that I have a vested interest? As one with two daughters, at least one of whom is seriously disinclined to study (admittedly early days, she is just 6), I love the new career options this bill opens up for her.

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  • Vijay Bhatia

    “I am not comfortable with the idea of having no power over my MP (man or woman) who knows that he/ she will not need my vote next time.”

    Excellent point Ashish!
    Here is my take on this important issue, if you like:-

    http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

    [Reply]

  • K

    I dont understand what makes the women reservation bad but all those other reservations (BC,SC,OBC etc.) good ? Both types are aimed at the ‘marginalized’ and both actually lower the quality of politicians we elect and even more importantly, both a against the constitution which lets the people decide who should represent them.

    Quota has only helped influential sections of SC,BC,OBC. This is not like a ‘Kaun Banega Crorepati’ where an unknown, marginalized dalit or lady can make it to the parliament, no matter how much quota is introduced.
    As Sonia shockingly and sadly commented, people like Lalu will have greater control over parliament and greater share of black money because he has seven daughters and the power to field them in elections.

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  • peshori ahuja

    Reservation itself means that the comunity, the religion, the class, or any groupthat asks or gets reservation is not capable of attaining the efficiency of the level that is attained by those for whom there is no reservation.

    Not only that but by asking or getting the reservation makes the reserveds a second class citizens and it makes the clever politicians more manipolative and powerful.

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  • Vijay

    For most parts I agree with Zia’s reasoning. This bill in it’s current form is a sure recipe for political chaos. Political commitment by parties is way to go.
    Why political parties have to be coerced by laws? Where did the days go, when parties used to organize “aandolans” for social cause? Why not even congress want to field more women candidates, unless coerced by the law?
    This is anything but LEADERSHIP.

    Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-
    http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html

    [Reply]

  • Joseph James

    The writer bases his arguments against the women’s bill on the false premise that the retention of a constituency by a sitting member is the be-all and end-all of democracy. In an advanced stage of democracy, every election will bring in new candidates as it is happening in the southern states. In fact, a constituency must be nursed by a party and not by individuals. At any rate, going by the arguments of bill’s opponents like Zia, the candidates displaced by the reservation are going to promote women from their families. This will mean that, certain constituencies which were individual pocket boroughs earlier will now become family pocket boroughs. Or ingenious candidates will now start nursing two constituencies instead of one. In short the electorate, now, stand to receive more attention from the politicians, which isn’t a bad thing after all. Moreover, rotational unseating is applicable only to men, not to women. So, performing women members can continue to represent their constituencies even when they become unreserved. This will push the female strength in the parliament beyond the mandatory 33%. The argument that the bill doesn’t address the grievances of marginalized women doesn’t hold water either. As of today all women are marginalized. The quota within quota can come in the second stage. After all this is a mere beginning. Amendments can be introduced later to make it foolproof. It must be given time to evolve like the anti-defection law. What’s most worrying about the anti-bill movement is that it seems to be centred around the Muslim interests. Even the socialist parties are purportedly doing it please the Muslim minority. I do not think Islam is as anti-women and anti-progress as it is usually made out to be.

    [Reply]

  • Dr. P.K. Jha

    Reservation in any form is bad, be it caste-based or gender-based or religion-based. As Karan Thapar says, the whole issue of reservation is an offense, for it leads to severe discrimination. The proposed bill for women is no exception.

    The women in favor of this bill are virtually projecting themselves as handicapped. Strangely, they are the ones who also insist on gender equality.

    Every policy of reservation is initially deemed to end after a period of ten to fifteen years, and this one is no exception. However, we know from our experience that this kind of promise is basically a hogwash.

    There is still time for good sense to prevail. For heaven’s sake, withdraw the bill.

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  • sks

    The fact is that a woman might actually do very well in 5 years to be re-elected again. Why should anyone presume that they will not get reelected! It might be the best strategy to break the current fiefdom without performance!
    By the way, which sane person uses the word spanked for abuse!

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  • Shrinivas

    Some of the objections to the bill are valid, but since for 60 years the disparity, marginalization and backwardness of women is not addressed by the the political system, only quota is the solution. Though this is meant for 15 years, we can imagine this not going away after that.
    The people who suggest that let parties reserve % of candidacy to women is not going to work, as we all know that just to satisfy the % the parties will give tickets where they don’t stand a chance to win.
    Now, about quota within quota, I believe being women, representing women and fighting for women is a bigger cause than representing a cast, community or a section of society. So let’s fight for the the right cause first. These parties who are making hoopla about quota in quota, did not bother to give tickets neither to women nor minorities in the same %.

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  • Sid

    First of All welcome change from Zia Haq – atleast instead of calling for Fatwa – he is trying to engage in a debate! However, it is NOT an intellectual debate because:
    1. For Muslims there are many forums & 80% our media is in FOREFRONT to project their interests & represent their view points.
    2. For OBC & SC, 63 years have gone by, except for their leaders becoming Zillionaires, NO REAL improvements have been seen in their lives. Many CMs ruled for long time (Laloo, Karunanadhi, Mulayam, Mayawathi etc). Same is true of Muslims (all Bollywood big guns are Muslims – do they donate any charity to good Muslim organizations?) Money also comes from Gulf employed Muslims.
    3. My wife should be writing this – but she is BUSY listening to Bollywood songs, so SPIRITED men like me have to take up the cause of WOMEN!
    4. Most important – Laloo has commented – women’s bill OVER his dead body – such GOLDEN oppertunity may NEVER again come in our life times, so why NOT KILL TWO wonderful birds with one STONE. Don’t even THINK – JUST go for the KILL by voting BLINDLY for women’s bill!

    [Reply]

    n s parameswaran Reply:

    The people who call themselves secular, liberal and progressive are the people who ask for communal reservation for Muslims under the garb of ‘Monorities’. . When they practice ‘Communalism’ it is called ‘Progressive Politics’, and when Hindus object to it they are labelled ‘Communal’.

    If muslims are backward then the reason is they want to be backward. They never started or took admission in schools and colleges and instead started “madarassa’, learnt Quaran by rote. Now how can they get jobs which such ‘UN”Qualifications. Then they blackmail the majority with cries of injustice and opression. Spineless parties like Congress, Left and Opportunistic and unprincipled parties like RJD, SP, DMK, AIADMK, JD(Secular), Left and the whole bandwagon of seculars have fallen for this blackmail and ruined India.

    MUSLIMS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE GIVEN RESERVATION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

    [Reply]

    Vini Reply:

    The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men’s sake. After all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah, blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don’t want to share power with women.

    Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without killing the Bill.

    What I want to say here is that I take extreme offense at the use of the word ‘spanking’ to trivialize a serious issue like domestic violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not. That’s why you treat it so flippantly.

    As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the doomsayers don’t know if this bill will work till it is implemented. It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over by elite women. So far it’s been elite men in charge.. so what’s wrong with elite women having a go?

    As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill’s most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is, MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully done.

    [Reply]

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    The simple fact is that, if you want to prevent a civil war in our country, you will have to simply amend it and incorporate all the demands that are being raised here. No, this is not a threat – nobody can threaten a civil war damn it, this is just a forecast of shape of things to come. Maoists on the rampage, Yadavs fully agitated, Muslims further discriminated against and lesser represented in the power share, Dalits more oppressed than before – and the high caste hindus more getting more power in the process. This is a sure formula of inciting a civil war – thank you congress, bjp and cpim – you are about to do something which china, usa, europe & pakistan would have loved to do – have a great civil war in india so that it receds back to the middle ages – then it would be easier for the buccanneers of the khyber to get in and set up shop. India had always suffered due to the high caste hindus throughout its history – and alas would continue to do so because of them.

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    S Singh Reply:

    Ziauddin

    Nice “hope”!

    Believe me, your hope will not happen. India is beyond that. Skirmishes will be there, appeasing politicians will continue to appease, country will progress at a rate less than what it could have. A growing India uplifts all; the huge spending govt does on disadvantaged will only grow.

    If 10% of so called high caste Hindus control the whole India, one should congratulate them on their skills.

    Have you tabulated the “classification” of the top 100 richest Indians ? Do you know how many Brahmins are in the richest 100? It is 4.

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    ram Reply:

    Ha ha ha, the last part of your comment was truly hilarious!

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  • Tanuj

    The britishers used seperate electorate to divide & rule. By giving reservation based on religion we would be doing the same. Who stops a party to give a ticket to a muslim lady from one of the reserved seats?
    I think it is a landmark bill and should be supported by all.

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  • Gurmeet

    I think this bill will prove to be a boon for all women, but especially for Muslim women. Representation of Muslim women has so far been very weak. When one-third of the seats are reserved for women, a substantial number of muslim majority constituency will have to elect a woman. There is an excellent chance that those constituencies shall be represented by Muslim women. It is also likely that these women will not be the burka or naquab clad women, who are oppressed by the fundamentalists in the Muslim society, but would be more socially progressive and liberated from the dogmas. This is likely because the arduous task of reaching and engaging with the electorate will be so much easier for the progressive Muslim women. These women will serve as the role model of rest of the young women in Muslim society, which will ultimately be a good thing both for the Muslims and therefore for India.

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  • sanjeev

    @ Zia
    i could guess that Zia will ultimately turn to his muslim reservation. :)

    You need a serious therapy of “reverse brainwashing”

    I f these skull caps and three quarter pyajama’s got reservation then this will be step towards another Pakistan in the making. Remember the process started this way in 1909…Morley Minto Reforms

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  • SKS Mumbai

    ‘The Bill is anti-minority, anti-backwards, and both anti-women and anti-men’

    If we exclude the women and men, it would read like a pre-partition Muslim League’s pamphlet.

    ‘Framers of the Constitution — —- —– save for time-bound reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable them to overcome disadvantages.’

    Except for the rotation part (clearly a problem), how is current bill different from above?

    ‘The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based on caste and religion and religion-based separate electorates had been the immediate trigger for Partition’

    Just immediate trigger? Or the whole basis?
    Zia sahab, are you suggesting that proportional representation was the way to go? We thought that all those wanted proportional (actually more than proportinal with a veto as well) representation crossed over in 1947.

    ‘With the Muslim League and the Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim and Sikh acquiescence on reversing minority safeguards was ultimately secured’

    Indeed, after Mr Jinnah and Muslim League left India in 1947, Muslims of India had nobody to represent them, exactly as Mr Jinnah had insisted all along. Our Hindu Communal Leaders foolishly questioned Mr Jinnah’s premise. (For Mr Jinnah and ML, Hindu communalism was represented by Gandhi, Nehru and congress, rarely did they talk of Hindu Mahasabha)

    ‘In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in the women’s reservation’

    Yup, the ‘Strongest Argument’ against the bill.

    Mr Zia’s Final Conclusions:
    Congress acted dumb, Left dumber.
    The Bill is a victory for Hindutva driven Bramhin-Bania combine!!
    Do we need any other reason to oppose the Bill?

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  • http://- Rajeev

    The best thing will be to merge India with pakistan and name is Greater pakistan. Gives muslims like Zia 100% reservation with right to kill or convert non-muslims especially hindus.

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  • Anil

    One participant’s gains can come only from another’s equivalent losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter

    Do you have same sentiments in matters of reservation for muslims..

    Hypocricy at its very best

    [Reply]

    Zia Haq Reply:

    Unfortunately, of late, I haven’t been able to read up on the comments/invectives that follow because of lack of time.

    On your charge of hypocricy: What I said is up here for you to read again. But Here’s what I didn’t say anywhere: that Muslims should get separate electorates (something simply out of question) or political reservation. On the contrary, I said: “Though ideally, the highest elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been pragmatic.” What does this tell you?
    Even so, I am not against political reservation for women per se, but not in the current form. I would much rather have political parties give nomination to the extent of 33 per cent. Who or what stops them. And please understand, I do not advcoate any quota on the basis of homogeneity. I said so: “Homogeneity is a stupid idea when applied to assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like Muslims, are equally disadvantaged or privileged.” Therefore, I will never advocate quota for all Muslims.

    Understand that before I decide to write or take a position, I do consider all relevant issues before arriving at an informed decision and not simply think with a Muslim hat on. The Bill, in its current form, suffers from inherent flaws. Its bearing on representations of minority is one such flaw, among others. It is a given that Muslim representation will be severely affected. And therefore it is a legitimate concern. Moreover, blocking such a huge number of seats for women in this way — I have argued — legitimises the demand for a quota within quota for backward women, which will include Muslims, OBCs etc. Nobody is even talking about Muslim political reservation. it’s not required, not recommended and not demanded. The demand is for political representation, not reservation.

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  • Anil

    NO muslim reservation in legislation.. we do not want start of another pakistan movemenet.. this is how it all started in past..

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  • Anil

    See the thuggery of parties sekeing quota withitn quota.. these people will make you belive as if they have bene emporing the women i within their community caste only the general category women have faced dicrmination. But fact is noone acroos the party caste creed lines have bene empowering women. There is a common threat fo discrimantion against women by their respective male folks.. Who stops these idiots shouting for quota within quota from giving tickets to more and more muslim and backward and sc/st and what nto women.

    One fo the guy was saying woman; reseervation will dilute sc/st reservation as if sc/st woman are nto sc/st.

    These thuigs who support reservation when it’s conveneint to them are suddenly parooting reservation pays peter by robbing paul..

    Pahle ye akal nahin aai thi

    [Reply]

  • ramesh

    The mother of all the resavations is the resv. the muslims are allowed tobe the resident non indians,

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Good one. We have 150 million pakistanis living in India barring handful.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Zia
    @Zia
    ‘I didn’t say anywhere: that Muslims should get separate electorates (something simply out of question) or political reservation’

    What you said was this: Constituent Assembly would have approved separate electorates (is that same as Minority safeguards?) but for:
    1. fresh memory of partition, which made the nationalist arguments; particularly effective, and/or
    2. a weakened Muslim League (I omit Sikh part here); and/or
    3. abstention by key Muslim leaders.

    Of course, that does not mean that you wanted ’separate electorates’ or ‘political reservation’ for Muslims?

    Nor does your following statement mean so:

    ‘If the women’s Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not ’separate electorates’ but ‘reserved seats’

    Am I missing something?
    For e.g. the difference between ‘reserved seats’ and ‘political reservation’?
    Or the similarity between
    ‘compensatory’ and ‘only for marginalised’?

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS
    It has been established before that Zia resorts to generalities when specifics are called for.. at any rate, he has his own idioms and syntaxes. Deliberately vague or vaguely deliberate, a compendium of Zia-isms will be a best-seller.
    As for your question: am I missing something? well, yes. You are. You are missing the point of this blog. The sole function of this blog is to generate controversy by ill-advised and poorly researched comments and boost eyeballs.. the visit stats look good on account of Zia, Vinod Sharma et al.. they are stars.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    All the muslims who are asking for reservation on caste basis should revert back to Hinduism.
    The reservation for SC/ST/OBC was introduced to fight casteism in HINDU society. It was for HINDUS who were at the bottom of their SOCIETY. There were many who chose to become muslims/xtians to escape HINDU casteism. Now if they want to come out of caste opression, they need to revert back to hinduism.

    In the word of Shri Kancha Illiah “islam and xtianity are democratic religion” so there is no chance of casteism being part of muslim/xtian socities.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Simple solutions-
    1. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste, come back to caste system in Hinduism and avail the reservation.

    2. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste but don’t want to revert to Hinduism, please pack your bags and go back to pakistan where you guys have 100% reservation.

    [Reply]

    sunny Reply:

    well said,this we have to clear at the earliest,otherwise what gandhi nehru did,same sonia rahul will do,another partition.but this time they all should be sent across border without fail to their homeland.from there, after partition 70 % came back and are increasing population of bharat.
    please wake up for the nation.

    [Reply]

  • Hypocritemuslim

    Ye aadmi baat karta hai progressive musalman hone ki aur munh kholkar reservation ki bheekh maang raha hai. Asli muslim hai ye- domunha!

    [Reply]

  • prashantkumar137

    Now, this fellow is showing his true (muslim) colours! He is openly asking for separate muslim electorates and muslim representation in the Parliament on the basis of numbers! This was also the first step of the creation of Porkistan in 1947! What does that tell you? Zia is just articulating what most muslims in India think, that is to go on increasing their population and to keep asking for separate electorates until they usurp the entire country!

    [Reply]

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  • Impi

    LIAR! I grew up in those times and I remember clearly. So do most moderate Hindus and Sikhs. It was in the news everyday. The period from 1982 to 1984 is dark in my memory. How did you miss it?

    Sikhs act like the government lost its mind and attacked the Golden Temple.

    It is only when KPS Gill and Beant Singh came in that Sikh militants were killed in encounters, that’s when collateral damage happened and innocent Sikhs were also killed alongside.

    This is a well written piece Mr. Sanghvi and I know you extend the same logic to Delhi and Gujarat riots.

    [Reply]