Budgeting for minorities



Although historically aware of its disadvantaged sections and their special needs, India has decisively switched from ‘appeasing’ Muslims — its largest minority — to budgeting for them.

Two things in recent years have helped institutionalise minority budgeting. One is the creation of a minority affairs ministry by the Congress-led UPA government in 2004 and, as a result, yearly budgetary allocations made to it.Two, a high-level government survey in November 2006 that proved disadvantages faced by Muslims, followed up with another one that recommended reservations.

Till now, an unproductive Hajj subsidy worth Rs 390 crore — which goes in bankrolling the pilgrimage through discounted airfare — had been the flagship largesse.

Even though government-funded religious travel is not unique to Muslims, the Hajj subsidy has often been singled out as unfair.

The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god Shiva.

Karnataka’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government proposes concessional Hindu pilgrimages to the temples of Udupi, Dharmasthala and Saudatti in the southern Indian state.

In neighbouring Andhra Pradesh, the Congress party-led government subsidises the cost of travel for Christians visiting Jerusalem in Israel and Bethlehem in Palestinian Authority. A subsidy is also being planned, according to media reports, for Manasarovar Yatra in China.

Why should government fund religious jaunts? Either because we are a welfare state unlike any other or it is a game of votes. Perhaps, both.

Deploying tax revenues for affordable healthcare, education and employment may be good economics but in an ancient holy land, spiritual well being seems to deserve importance too. But competing populism has definitely crept into it.

Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault with government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government help?

However, there is a growing demand from Muslims themselves for the Hajj subsidy to be scrapped. While it gives Air India 150,000 assured passengers every year (that’s the total number of seats on all Indian carriers criss-crossing the country on any given day), helping it keep afloat, the grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with. No Muslim asked for it in the first place.

Muslims are now calling for global and national open bids: whoever offers the cheapest tickets gets to fly away with 150,000 prize passengers. Fair enough.

“If the Hajj subsidy is withdrawn, it won’t hurt us. If scholarship are cut, that would,” Asaduddin Owaisi, Hyderabad MP from the All India Majlis-eIttehadul Muslimeen party, told the Hindustan Times last year.

There is a less obvious side to the Hajj subsidy. The subsidy itself seems responsible for Muslim backwardness, given that it has enabled governments to use it as a signature grant and avoid more basic financial interventions.

However, the recognition that minorities can be predisposed to experiencing disadvantages due to their numerical inferiority itself has made planning and budgeting for them an integral part of most developed countries.

Almost all of Europe and the US make special allocations of one type or the other for their minorities.

Why do Indian Muslims need a helping hand?

The country’s Muslim population is 150 millions, making it the state with the second-largest Muslim population, after Indonesia. Indian Muslims experience serious disadvantages, low literacy and high poverty rates.

Their literacy rates are well below the national average, while poverty rates are only slightly higher than low-caste Hindus, according to the November 2006 Sachar Committee report.

Muslims, mostly Sunnis, make up 13.4% of India’s population, yet hold fewer than 5% of government posts and make up only 4% of undergraduates in universities. The report also found that, despite being self-employed at a far higher rate, Muslims trail other groups in terms of access to credit.

Yet, they can influence elections, using their voting power to extract concessions from parties who woo them.

Muslims are not uniformly disadvantaged. Those in south and west India have been historically wealthier. In the north, Muslims were thrust into abject poverty at once when their wealthier counterparts left for Pakistan during the 1947 Partition.

Muslims in rural areas are less poor than in urban areas, where their poverty rate of 38 percent is higher than any other population’s, including low-caste Hindus.

Although no formal Muslim caste system exists, three groups of Indian Muslims –ashraf, ajlaf, and arzal — indeed function as such. More correctly, there is definitely a Muslim class system, if not a caste system.

The ashrafs, thought to be of Arab ancestry, form the upper class among Muslims, while the ajlafs are thought to be previously Hindus who converted to Islam to escape the Hindu caste system. A third group, the arzals, correlates to the lowest caste among Hindus.

The Sachar Report has provided exhaustive data on socio-economic conditions of Muslims.

The Sachar report has been controversial, not just for highlighting Muslim marginalisation but also because of its very mandate. Hindu nationalists — led by the BJP — criticized the report, tainting it with an old brush –- that of appeasement.

While it offers clear proof of Muslim marginalisation, there have been debates about how to combat Muslim unemployment rates. The BJP is averse to solutions focusing directly on Muslims but would prefer general poverty alleviation.

All government outlays to pull a community out of backwardness can look like appeasement, given the zeal for competing interests of political leaders vying for power.

Has budgeting helped?

India’s 2010-11 budget has given 50% higher allocation to the minority affairs ministry — up from Rs 1,740 crore to Rs 2,600 crore.

Cash flow to minorities — from bank loans to scholarships — peaked during 2008-09, according to government data, as Muslims appeared to be slowly overcoming a strong bias of banks in lending.

Public sector banks, which would turn down Muslim loan applicants because they were considered “credit risk groups”, have disbursed a staggering Rs 82,864 crore in loans to minorities during 2008-09.

Since the Reserve Bank has now turned its focus to 121 backward minority districts with high Muslim population, as identified by the minority affairs ministry, Muslims got a chunky pie of the credit share.

Banks now have to compulsorily service Muslims in backward areas after the Reserve Bank added minorities to its list of other priority lending sectors, like agriculture and small-scale businesses in July 2007.

“We will be able to see the results shortly if not immediately,” Planning Commission member Syeda Saiyidain Hameed, who heads the minority sector, says.

Cash constraints are now easing, with banks achieving lending targets set for minorities. In 2008-09, the Reserve Bank’s target was that 13% of loans under priority sector lending should go to minorities and banks were able to lend 12.4%. This was better than 2007-08, when the target was 10.6% and actual sanctions 9.6%. Priority sector lending accounts for 40 per cent of total loans, according to the federal Reserve Bank of India norms.

Banks also opened 524 branches in minority concentration districts in 2009 and nearly 6-lakh minority students got scholarships. In 2008, 523 branches were set up.

The UPA government has earmarked a whopping Rs 7,000 crore for minority welfare under the 11th Five Year Plan that concludes in 2012.

The government now plans to install national-level independent monitors to track back how Rs 3,780 are being spent for minority welfare under the “flagship multi-sectoral development programme”, in which lawmakers will have a say for the first time.

The multi-sectoral programme, which helps set up anything from a school to a water pump, applies to 90 districts countrywide where minorities make up more than 25 per cent of the population and lag behind significantly on crucial socio-economic parameters.

The government’s approach is such that creation of assets in these districts should also benefit the majority communities as well. UP, Assam and Bihar have the largest number of minority districts, with 21, 12 and 6 districts respectively.

These districts were selected on the basis of 10 indicators, ranging from literacy to the number of inoculated children.

The government hopes evaluating schemes with a fine-toothed comb and involving area MPs, an idea of minority affairs minister Salman Khurshid, are moves that would customise the multi-sectoral scheme.

The government feels a quick appraisal is important to ensure rapid implementation of schemes. “These national-level independent monitors will report back two things: are schemes being implemented in the right way and right place, according to Khrushid.

The scheme, in its second stage now, is also called being called a top-up phase because money from the minority affairs will be now poured into schemes of other ministries so that minorities benefit.

The Planning Commission is also evaluating massive spending on minority welfare as it prepares for mid-term appraisal of the 11th Five-Year Plan.

Planning Commission member Hameed is set to personally travel to five regions for first-hand feedback from beneficiaries.

Lessons from Congressional Black Caucus

Some historic measures for minority welfare, including an exclusive ministry, helped the Congress sail through the last general elections for a second term in power.

However, Muslim lawmakers, whose numbers are dwindling over time, have seldom used parliamentary mechanisms creatively to ensure Muslims get a fair deal. A problem with Muslim leadership is that political leadership has often overlapped with religious leadership.

Divided along sharp party lines, India’s Muslim lawmakers seldom get a chance to work in unison. However, they could take a leaf out of the Congressional Black Caucus.

The Caucus helped highlight the plight of US minorities with a two-step process: by the congressional budget process called the Humphrey-Hawkins debate and by moving alternate budget resolutions.

The struggle of minorities in the US helped them integrate into society and as their clout grew, Congress became more responsive to their needs. Geographical concentrations of some minorities in the US have led to their greater representation, though it is far behind their share of the population.

In the 2001-2003 Congress, for instance, African-Americans comprised 12 percent of the population, but just 8.3% of the House members; Hispanics made up 13 % of the population and just 4.4 % of the House; and women represented 51 % of the population but just 13.6% of the House, and 13% of the Senate.

America’s annual budget project to thrash out budgetary solutions to address backwardness of minorities is a lesson for both Indian minority lawmakers and those opposed to minority-specific solutions, like the BJP.

A beginning has been made but just a fraction achieved. After all, every change for the better begins with a small minority.

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  • sanjeev

    Mullah Zia

    “The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god Shiva ”

    This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india’s strategic and geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal being historically part of China. and more imporatantly a tradition which has been part ofindian civilzation.

    Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money.

    I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF funded trekking expeditions to himalayas.

    So in that way its not any exclusive and out of turn activity.

    Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across religious lines…but Haj is not.

    So don’t show your ignorance…rather write something about islamophobia

    [Reply]

    Mitra Reply:

    Hey Sanjeev,
    Whatever excuses and arguments you come up with, it is a fact that Govt. of India subsidizes a Hindu pilgrimage just as it does for Mulsims and Christians. Nowhere does the Govt. say they do it for strategic reasons- and it is a rather absurd argument. So cool down and try to control your hatred. Aren’t you guys always shouting about how tolerant Hindus and Hinduism are? There is no way to infer that from your churlish behavior! Learn to give respect to people and debate like a civilized educated man- even when you keep making stupid arguments. Jai Hind!

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    How can you expect an uncivilized Hindu terrorist to react when confronted with facts? All I’ve seen on this blog, is people preaching hatred and violence bypassing all logic and sense. None of their comments make sense and I repeat NONE. But rhetoric is what helps them feel superior, else they are cowed down by the uneducated minority so easily. Let them have the comfort of the rhetoric and shameless ignorance. Ignorance is bliss ya know?

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    @Pandit sanjeev

    “The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god Shiva ” ~~~> FACT

    “This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india’s strategic and geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal being historically part of China” ~~~~>FICTION …

    “…and more imporatantly a tradition which has been part ofindian civilzation” ~~~> Is that all you think about your own culture and religion? Hang your head in shame. I pity you.

    “Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money.”

    Does that make it a FREE expedition? The Government employs choppers for your “safety” in the mountains, massive policing arrangements for the crowd and at times they even arrange for fake shivlings (LMAO) when you “God” fails to appear :P Will you please tell me who funds these costs? IMO It is the taxpayers money and that includes Muslims of this country. If you are so averse to Muslims, why don’t you shun government spending? Lets just take an example – India’s third largest software exporter Wipro is held by a Muslim billionaire. Over a lakh of people are employed by the company and they pay huge taxes to this government every year. Why don’t you ask your Hindu brethren to stop taking up jobs in Wipro and making a living out of it? The tax they pay is also funded by that very same Muslim -held company. Do you need more examples? OK have you heard of the companies – Cipla, Wockhardt , Himalaya heath Care are only to name a few of them. What about the crores of taxes, the “Khans’ of Bollywood pay to this Government and the revenue that their movies generate directly or indirectly ( though people employed and associated with the movies) Why would you like to go on a “holy” trip on Muslim money? Should’nt you shun the Government subsidy?

    “I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF funded trekking expeditions to himalayas. So in that way its not any exclusive and out f turn activity.”

    So ? Doesn’t make sense honey! Try harder next time and come up with some logic, not brain-dead arguments.

    “Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across religious lines…but Haj is not.”

    LMAO I pity you now!!

    “So don’t show your ignorance…rather write something about islamophobia”

    Internet Hindus have time and again proudly proved their blissful ignorance. I’m glad you are just another one of them!

    [Reply]

  • raman

    So, they need special budget for them , they need special care from government otherwise they warn that some of them will turn into terrorist or help them…..what kind of logic is this………

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    No one has argued that they will turn into terrorists if the government doesn’t provide them with a separate budget. After all what have all the subsequent governments done over all these years? They have only pushed the minorities ( read Muslims ) to impoverishment and under-representation without a voice. Anyone who dares speak for Muslims is labeled a traitor or at best a supporter of Muslim League. Anything that anyone even promises for Muslims ( let alone fulfill them) is termed as Muslim Appeasement. How wonderfully naive.

    Muslims have lived in ghettos with discrimination over the years in this country and we don’t need any one to make nonsense announcements for Muslims. We have lived with deprivation and can survive in our own mumbling ways.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Oh BTW look what poverty has done to people in the rural areas. Will you dare call the Maoists terrorists and traitors? The argument against it is that they are our very own civilians although they can murder people at will,kill innocents, behead people they hate and rape and maim women. So what? after all they are Hindu civilians, they’ve got every right to be protected in this country. A Muslim on the other hand is picked up by the police at random without evidence or even gunned down in cold blood is quickly labeled a terrorist by everyone. Why make a distinction?

    [Reply]

    raman Reply:

    Did I say I sympathize with Maoists, do not assume things…..

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    No, I never said that. I am only putting across my point.

    SP Reply:

    @Ashish

    “The Indian state is not perfect; far from it. Nor is the Indian society. But, it is a worthwhile experiment is creating a multi-hued culture. Thanks to our founding fathers and thanks to the economic progress unleashed in the last 20 years, the benefits of modern living are reaching many.”

    Completely Agree.

    ” If you argue that Muslims face systematic and systemic discrimination, then you must be prepared to look within and ask why is it that no other religion in India, including the Sikhs (even after 1984) have a problem sharing space and prospering in this country.”

    I’m sorry but the Majority needs to look within themselves. You cannot JUSTIFY violence/abuse/killings/discrimination against ANYONE in the name of ANYTHING. That’s a flawed argument you are making and I believe you know that very well.

    “Looking at everything through the religious prism makes for noisy debates but, makes you hostage to “benefactors” like Mamata Banerjee and Laloo Yadav.”

    No they are “self-proclaimed” benefactors. NO one has EVER accorded them that status.

    Ashish Reply:

    Dear RE,
    the Maoists do not fight on religious grounds; the Indian state’s “war” against them is also “secular”.
    There is tremendous amount of blood-letting going on in the names of protecting the rights of the economic underprivileged and the rights of the state. I have not heard any Maoist (or any CPIML member) make any invocation to religion.
    I am not sure why you think the State treats the Maoists as “Hindu civilians”. Care to explain?

    [Reply]

    SP Reply:

    Maoists justify terror as a means of pursuing their goal of overthrowing the Indian state just because they are poor and the deprived citizens of this country? Common a very sizable population of this country is below the poverty line. But the Government won’t fight a war against them because these ‘Adivasis’ happen to be our ‘own’ people although they can engage the armed forces of this coutry,massacre them at will, abduct ,kill and behead people at will.
    A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/ even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the police and the government and all we read is “20 something Islamic Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that ever happened in the country over the last 10 years”. How lame is that!
    Why is there such a discrimination in the treatment between the two? A terrorist is a terrorist! Be it a Maoist or a certain Pragya Singh Devi. Why does the mainstream political party come up in defense of HINDU terror accused or label any muslim ACCUSED to be a terrorist? The same goes with the Maoists – the Government won’t wage a war against them just because they happen to be Hindus.
    Anyone who challenges the state should be an enemy of the state .Unfortunately that is not true for the Hindus of this country. They can get away with mass orchestrated murders and live under state protection. (‘92 ‘02 anyone?) And so is the case with the Maoists. They are Hindus and by default saintly and hence cannot be treated as terrorists.

    Ashish Reply:

    @SP
    I will again quote from my post “there is a tremendous amount of bloodletting going on in the names of protecting the rights of the economic underprivileged and the rights of the state.” I think I make it clear that Maoists are fighting only in the name of protecting the rights of the underprivileged.
    And, what gives you the idea that the Government is not fighting them? We can differ on whether it is a “war” or not. But the human rights activists will certainly not agree with you that the government is going easy on the Maoists. Unless of course you say that the likes of Arundhati Roy are basically Hindu zealots and speak for the Maoists only because they are Hindus.
    Let me quote from your reply:
    “A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/ even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the police and the government and all we read is “20 something Islamic Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that ever happened in the country over the last 10 years”. How lame is that!”
    You know, this seems to be straight from the alleged situation in the North-East; where the “war” between the state and the ultras have resulted in several cases of human rights abuses that should be the concern of any civilized society. The state of Manipur is a case in point. May I however point out that the affected populace is not Muslim in Manipur.
    The Indian state is not perfect; far from it. Nor is the Indian society. But, it is a worthwhile experiment is creating a multi-hued culture. Thanks to our founding fathers and thanks to the economic progress unleashed in the last 20 years, the benefits of modern living are reaching many. If you argue that Muslims face systematic and systemic discrimination, then you must be prepared to look within and ask why is it that no other religion in India, including the Sikhs (even after 1984) have a problem sharing space and prospering in this country.
    Looking at everything through the religious prism makes for noisy debates but, makes you hostage to “benefactors” like Mamata Banerjee and Laloo Yadav.

    Ashish Reply:

    @SP
    “You cannot JUSTIFY violence/abuse/killings/discrimination against ANYONE in the name of ANYTHING. That’s a flawed argument you are making and I believe you know that very well.”
    Please support by an actual quote from me where I have justified violence, killings, abuse…in the name of anything.

    On the other hand,
    please respond to my rebuttal about your painting the Operation Greenhunt as the GOI going easy on the Maoists because they are Hindus. I just read through Arundhati Roy’s account of her travels through the Dandakaranya forests as she interviews Maoists. Even she does not make the charge that the GOI is going soft on the Maoists because they are Hindus.
    Can you please explain why my argument is “flawed”, other than of course your assertion that even I know it is flawed? In case it has escaped you, let me keep it simple. The Sikhs, victims of partition riots, 1984 killings, under deep suspicion for a long time on account of the Khalistan movement.. only about 1% of the population in India: are doing just fine.

    Why is that the Muslims tend to blame everyone but themselves?

  • Mitra

    Very interesting and informative discussion! Hope you keep monitoring how well the minority welfare schemes are progressing- this is really important. It is good we have a decent, honest man Salman Khursheed as the Minister- politicians like him are relatively rare in India.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Mitra

    I can expect such sort of logic from naxal sympathisers like you…. Hope you forgot your bengali ilk got kicked by these so called discriminated lots on 16 july 1946 (direct action day ).

    Wait for some more decades another Pakistan will be demanded from your home state. The demand will arise from your so called secular and left ruled state.

    Or else i can imagine you have admitted to dhimmi status or else burqa clad. :)

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    This guy is muslim with hindu last name..just like Bhowmik (saba naqvi bhaowmik).

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    I M sure she is a girl and so brainwashed by so called leftist of Students Federation of India (SFI).

    She haven’t been able to come out of the vote bank politics of naxal sypmathizers of JNU.

    Mitra Reply:

    I am Hindu and I am not a woman. I won’t give you my first name as I teach in an university and I have a website- I am afraid Hindu nationalist vandals will try to bother me. I am not a Naxal sympathizer and thats not what we are discussing. The Naxals are left-wing extremists and you guys are right-wing extremists- every patriotic Indian should condemn both equally. The day you guys will learn to make an actual argument instead of spewing vile hatred and prejudice, I will be happy to have a discussion.

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Mitra

    It is you who started labelling someone as sangh parivar or bajrang bal member :)

    Its welcome that you want positive debate..

    Btw other people like me also work for govt organizations.

    Nobody has time to bother except those with whom you empathise…hope you remember the recent karnataka episode over Taslima nasreen article episode. who resorted to rioting ?

    RE Reply:

    @Sanjeev pandit.

    1. I hope you are not a disgruntled shudra who is not even allowed to enter the temple by The Brahmins or you did not marry in the same gotra and were hounded by your own goons. You sound very irked and disgruntled so can I assume that someone in your family decided to kill a female child or maybe your wife does not want to put on a ghoonghat? Is there any reason why you are so pissed off with life?

    2. Regarding rioting in Karnataka :

    Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8544657.stm

    “Police say Hindu groups joined the unrest in both places after Muslims took to the streets. About 50 arrests have been made in connection with the violence. ”

    Muslims taking to streets to voice protest against something does not mean they were rioting but as usual, people don’t have the guts to accept the truth in this country. I am sure they did not pull you out of you house and mob you down like the goons at RSS do under state protection. Every citizen has the legitimate right to voice his/her opinion but the fact of the matter is Hindu cowards started a riot. Television images on “Times Now” , a clearly pro- hindutva ,pro- BJP , pro- right wing channel showed images of people with ORANGE flags with “OM” inscribed on them. Now I can bet they were not Muslims. Secondly, the Ram Sene called a bandh the very next day! WOW how did the entire protest affect those cowards? Karnataka is BJP ruled so people have the liberty to start a riot and get away with it just like Gujarat. The Muslims are the ones who will be labeled terrorists any which way.

    At least have the guts to accept the truth in public MORON

  • perpetual.dilettante

    Since you cite the government subsidies for the pilgrimage to Kailash Mansorovar as a point to counter the annual Haj subsidies, numbers around what the total outlay for the project is would have been interesting for a fair comparison. Do not quite agree with your point that the Muslims had not asked for the subsidies. The fact remains that there were demands from certain quarters from within the community for this step. Obviously the point whether or not they represented the true sentiments of the community can well be debated.

    However, your point around the government not subsidizing religious pursuits is well taken. It needs to be applied irrespective of religious affiliations of the vote banks, pressure groups, etc. However, there is a bigger question here around the value of affirmative action, specially in context of religious segments. That is a point worth debating as well

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    If money would have solved Muslim “backwardness” , countries like KSA would be producing qualified engineers and journalists and teachers leave alone world class scientists. They recently opened a “world class” university; minister E Ahmed represented India in the inauguration ceremony – 80% of the student body was foreign students whom they had ‘bought” with lucrative scholarships. A student from Minnesota stated that he will have to spend $20,000 in a state Univ in Minnesota; now he gets paid $20,000 affter all the expenses; he did not know how long he could last there in KSA because the public outside the walls of the Univ do not want a Univ there.

    Why is Pakistan so backward with madrasites killing left and right, with nosystem to speak of other than a rot corrupt military system, if, as the author says “elite’ Muslims migrated to Pakistan.

    Hyderabad (Telengana) was under Nizam rule for yearsa nd years. Why are Muslims educationally so backward there?

    Why iin Kerala they are still backward educationally (although they are significantly better compared to all India Muslim average)? And a smaller minority there, Christians, excelled in education, industriousness, contributions..

    The author talks about bank loans. Muslims are promoting “Islamic Bank” as the right way of banking. I have seen Muslim students being advised on some of their “exclusive” sites not to seek student loan, and to take lower level job rather than pursuing higher studies with student loans.

    We have to bring all up to participate in a vibrant, growing India. Money, if at all, is only a very small part of the equation. It is attitudes, entrenched belief systems, uncompromising stickiness to a set of rules formed in 650 when conditions were different, learning Arabic (instead of English) etc etc. If these do not change, whatever money is allocated, we will still have this dialogue of backwardness fifty years from now, 100 years from now.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Your arguments are best very naive and you obviously know that. If you still need an explanation, I’m ready to debate

    [Reply]

  • sanjeev

    @ Gopi

    Govt should resort to following Measures for development of muslims

    1. Sharia laws
    2. Islamic banking
    3 Education only through madrasa: this should include courses on geography and hisory of saudi arabia, science based on quran, arabic language
    4. Compulsory pilgrimage for all muslims to Haj
    5. Freedom to kill as many as infidels as they wish so that they can achieve ultimate aim: jannat with hooris

    I think then they can have proper development of their personality as well as material progress

    [Reply]

  • Ziauddin Shafi

    Muslims of Hyderabad were never backward during the Nizam’s rule. Since the last 30 years or so, the criminal nexus between MIM and the Congress, who treat the Hyderabadi Muslims as their vote bank, have deliberately worked against the education of Muslims in the city. So much so that government schols functioning there do not have teaching staff, water, electricity and toilets – forcing poor students to drop out. Government-funded Urdu medium schools are in the worst possible conditions – unbelievable is the word. Despite all these Muslim traitors and “secular congress” traitors, the Muslims of Hyderabad and Telangana are struggling to find their feet. The northern Indian Muslims are comparatively better off – they have leaders like Salman Khursheed and Sayyida who are sincere, honest and hard-working. Hope they also come down to Telangana & Hderabad to look into the affairs here.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    @Shafi

    Are you implying that there was a “conspiracy” to deprive Hyderabad Muslim students of education? Are you saying that Muslims in Hyd were highly educated during Nizam rule and 30 years after independence, and then due to misadministration or stupidity or conspiracy of leaders, the education started going down???

    How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India, came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like that.

    You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education, like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way? Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and not doing the right thing.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @ Shoeb K,
    till today I did not know that Sam Pitroda came from a Dalit family; I suspect very few others on this blog did either.
    The great thing is, we don’t know and we don’t care. It is enough for us that Sam Pitroda is what he is, a visionary with the gumption to get things done.
    Is Azim Premji a Muslim? Well, yes. Is he an example? Of course. Is he an example only for Muslims?
    ” Modern india has lakhs of stories like that.” .. yes, and thank you for making this simple statement.
    Let’s worry about evolving a “post-religious” identity. We must.
    The questions you raise are not limited to Muslims; I think the Muslims as a community can benefit by making common cause with the poor Hindus/ Jains/ Christians and demand that the government deliver on education, women’s rights and childrens’ health and nutrition. Of course, the community must play its part in ensuring that religion is quoted as an argument to stymie those initiatives.
    @Ziauddin Shafi I think you are not informed about the sorry state of affairs in the northern part of the country. The lack of leadership that you talk about, is even more pronounced in North and it shows up in all the indices.

    [Reply]

    UI Reply:

    @Shoeb K Reply:

    “Are you implying that there was a “conspiracy” to deprive Hyderabad Muslim students of education? ”

    Why only in Hyderabad, look at the vitriol everyone spewed when there was a proposal to set up a branch of AMU in Murshidabad, West Bengal. AMU may not be an Oxford but education surely will help the most deprived and the backward. Do you think it was fair to unnecessarily criticize the setting up of a branch of AMU? You know what, you need to get out of you comfort zone to see what people have done to Muslims in this country. I am an engineer and I’ve seen the nasty face of educators at every stage of my school/university. I was always singled out because I was the only Muslim in the class who topped exams year after year. It is exactly things like these that make people cringe and say that they do. Accept the fact that there has been a targetted marginalization of Muslim in this country

    “How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India, came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like that.”

    Have you ever heard of something called reservations? When the most un-deserving candidates are given preferences in places that matter, what do you expect in this country? Abolish all forms of reservations or apply them equally for ALL economically backward sections of the society. Only then you will get a clear idea of what the reality is.

    “You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education, like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way? Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and not doing the right thing.”

    You must be kidding my dear! You seriously must be kidding me! Talking about things from the comfort of your home with a laptop in front of you is something different than the stark poverty and alienation that Muslims face in this country. Get out of the 5-6 Urban cities for God’s sake. You cannot expect anyone to get a decent education unless he is lucky like me or you, when there is abject poverty , when people can hardly make ends meet if at all. I’ve seen most Muslims living in ghettos even in so called urban cities where there is hardly a decent school in the vicinity and you talk about education? Have you ever wondered why Muslims are discriminated when it comes to getting a rented house in a Hindu locality?

    You talk about the status of women in our society( are you seriously a Muslim or just using a Muslim name? )

    “Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and standing on their feet?”
    Seriously? Any and every educated family that I know of and some very poor families insist on their daughters going to school to get an education. Esp when it comes to urban areas, people are more open to allowing women to work. You seriously must be kidding me or you are very detached from the society !!

    “Arent most of our people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way?”

    Again you are making sweeping generalizations.

    “Do many of us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way?”
    What do you mean by an Intimate way? Of course where the majority are people from other communities, you mingle with them , at school , at work , in your neighborhood. Living in ghettos does not mean that you never interact with anyone!

    [Reply]

  • http://nda992.blog.co.in A Banerjee

    The biggest enemy of the muslim community is the muslim himself. There is an intersting article comparing muslims and jews. Although jews consist of only 0.02 % of the world’s population, they have won 130 Nobel Prizes. Muslims are 20% of the world’s population, but have won only 7 Nobels. I think that Muslims must stop this tirade of being ‘minorities’ and start working for themselves.

    What has number to do with progress? If that be so the case then how doyou explain the parsis who are doing so well for themselves?

    The trouble with Mr Zia and other ’secular’ people is that they waste their time and energy (please see that I am not mentioning ‘brains’) brooding over some conspiracy theory or some ’sachar’ report instead of using their time productively. This imacts the minds of young and gullible muslim youth who start thinking that the entire nation is against them.

    Their was a very nice ad campaign by Idea in which Abhishek Bachhan says that their will be no community, only mobile numbers. That’s the way it should be…..

    [Reply]

    UI Reply:

    BS

    [Reply]

  • Anil Kumar

    All the religious pilgrimage subsisdy given to non-muslim you have rehashed is the progeny of haz subsidy.> So muichy noise was made that various state govts hand have bene forced..

    No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who always need crutch for anything and everything..

    They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they must eb given job..

    State of those hindus who confine themselves withitn the scriptute study are not different we don;t see them cribbing..

    If you want job start learnign physics chemistry math those Quran and hadith reading is nto going to give you job..

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    “No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who always need crutch for anything and everything..

    They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they must eb given job..”

    BS

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    The problem with Muslims is that they do not have a proper perspective or they refuse to accept the reality. For example, This Javed Naqvi, a reporter for DAwn, (a Pakistani based newspaper) always writes about how bad it is for Muslims in india; how the goovernment goes on destroying Muslims.. This guy is a Pakistani, living in and enjoying Delhi, and he is always venomous about India– May be it is jealousy………

    Muslims acn be a “suppressed moinority” (as they think) or an aggressive contributor to national progress; they have to make that choice..Government can go on pouring tax payers’ money for the so-called upliftment; but the desire for upliftment and work towards upliftment has to come from muslims themselves,a nd not througha ny government programs.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Raju

    This so called peace activist Javed Naqv is no less than Taliban. I don’t know whether he is Indian national ?

    Regarding the much admired masiha of muslims Justice Rajendra sachar’s credentials…let me highlight one of high ideological fact : He is so called human right and civil rights activists of Arundhati Roy gang. We can seriously doubt his credentials as a judge of supreme court or distinguished jurist. I thibk this sachar committee is all a game plan of congress left combine.

    Although i personally support the govt should do efforts to educate and elevate living standard of all deprived citizens irrespective of minority or majority.

    But why only the special emphasis on muslims ?

    Why can’t they start some programme for all poor people of india and allocate separate budget targets for this group ?

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Now comes conspiracy theory LMAO

    [Reply]

  • shiuli

    Budgeting for minorities is a much required factor, coz if the gov’t does not we have big brain drain like MF Husain, escaping to Qatar, taking Citizen-ship there. We have violent clashes over Taslima Nasreen’s outcry; also The Great Khan who has already been awarded Dato-ship in Malaysia, by calling Pakistan, Our Friendly Neighbour, may condemn Indian Citizenship one fine day.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    BS

    [Reply]

  • ramesh

    What is holding back the muslims, is their literalism in religion ,which is evident in all their aspects.Why arent the Parsees, christians or sikh held back.Because they have opend their minds. Muslims consider everyone else as jews only, their born enemy.They should see the broader sense of the message.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards the Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    So, there is no animosity to anybody except Muslims.. Could it be that something is wrong with Muslism?

    Why do Muslims have problem everywhere? Be Philippines, thailand, US, UK, germanty. denmark, Switzerland — why even in the so called Islamic countries ((OIC)? Oh why!

    [Reply]

    SP Reply:

    The Problem is that you have become so ignorant that you cannot comprehend History or Geography or Geo-Politics OR probably you don’t wish to. At least don’t sound such a moron on the internet.

    Ashish Reply:

    @RE
    “Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards the Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs”
    poor souls! Muslims! No one loves them! Boo, hoo, hoo!

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I think instead of budgeting for minority (read MUSLIMS, MUSLIMS and MUSLIMS), why don’t we send them to their land which we allocated for them in 1947. The pakistan was meant for muslims of south asia. If you muslims think, you are not getting fair deal, migrate to the land that was created for giving muslims fair deal.

    Jinnah also demanded same kind of things before partition to safegaurd the interests of muslims. The then-congress decided not to give in to Jinnah’s loony demands and agreed for partition. Now after 62 years, we are being forced to agree to Jinnah’s demand or face terror ending into another partition of country. How long can this blackmail go on?

    Pl. show me a single country in the world where muslim minority has outperformed other communities…None… Are all these non-muslims country guilty of this or is the in the muslims gene to stay and ghetto and be backward? Do you want Sachar to go in all those countries and then produce a report implying that muslims are denied opportunities.

    There is something very wrong with muslim mindset. They are themseleves to blame for their misery. Why is that Hindus, jews, chinese are doing so well in USA? Why is that non-muslims do better than muslims in almost every country?

    These muslims have to come out to their eternal victimhood syndrome.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    @Rajeev

    Many things you mention are right. For our country to propel, we need to bring all into the equation. Youa re absolutely right that the backwardness of msulims can eb squarely attributed to teh community itself -its religiosu leaders, political leaders etce tc. A fundamental aspect of Islam as oppsoed to various other “movements” , is that the role of the individual or individuality is suppressed; hence no major innovations, initiatives, pathbreaking inventions, methosds etc etc.

    Government money will do only little. The mindset has to eb changed; it ahs to come from within; and lot of forces work against that. It is a real problem; as Zia mentioned in an earlier blog, muslims have to handle it themselves.. They should know that the world would not wait for this, and they will be left further behind if they do not acvt.

    The sorry situation is that whether we like it or not, we have to somehow solve this…

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Why don’t you leave this country instead if you hate the people living in this country? Or is is that you have no place on this earth to call a Hindu State? haha India is NOT a Hindu country. If you cannot live here, go and find a place for yourself

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    The Sachar report is not an extensive survey but a SAMPLE survey. We have all seen how surveys have been proved wrong time and again.

    The need of the hour for muslims is to shun excessive religiousity, waste less time curing non-muslims and concentrate on education followed by search for jobs. You can not be employed on high position (IPS, IAS, Army etc.) till you get proper education. Even a police constable in maharashtra police is graduate.

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    I seriously doubt credentials of Rajendra sachar. he is an ideologically indoctrinated person and not neutral, unbiased researcher.

    Just google his name..he has association with People’s Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL)

    In the recently arrested Kobad ghandy case his organisation has been mentioned by delhi police among the naxal sympathisers.

    I have personally attended many of the debates and discussions frequented by this gang of naxal sympathisers like Gautam Navlakha, Achin Vinayak, DSU, etc. their views clealry state that they are chinese protege and they aim to bring china type revolution in india.

    I seriously doubt how can such a person was appointed chairman of such a committee.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    You need some money for education which they have been deprived of over the years

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    RE

    So you are saying that somehow government “deprived ” them of education, and now have to give them money for education??

    Do you believe that our people (I assume you are a muslim) give utmost importance to education like other commun ities? Even Baniya children grow up reciting “vidya dhan sarv dhanal pradhan”.. What is our children taught in Madrasi??

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    No one is begging for alms here. It’s only the Hindus who beg for Money & Jobs and you will keep begging for your lives. Don’t worry the Government won’t take away your reservations any soon. You can obviously beg for even more.
    If you are going to tell me that ^%$^% like Mulayam Shi% and people like him demand BS for Muslims, I pity you and your ignorance of the reality of this country.

    Secondly, you must be naive to think that people think in terms of community when it comes to education. You must be so out of this world my HINDU brother! (Using a Muslim name does not make you one) The fact of the matter is, yes people want education for their children and the fact of the matter is that a majority of the Muslim population in India is living foot-to-mouth. I have grown up in a poor Muslim neighborhood and you can bet a very good number of children went to proper schools. They may not have been the DPS’s of this country but yes everyone valued education.Economics is the major concern my dear, not community based ignorance. When you cannot even earn Rs20 a day, you cannot possibly dream of sending your child to a regular school.

    I come from a Naxal affected place so you very well imagine the state of affairs and to add to that I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood with a couple of Madarsas. I can tell you, even people who have studied in these very madarsas completed their education and then took up respectable and decent government jobs ,quite unlike your Hindu naxal brothers just 40-50 kms away from my place. A few of us were lucky ones who grew up in middle class families, who could study in English medium schools and landed up with jobs with MNCs. Unfortunately most are not so lucky. You know what, either you have never seen poverty in and around you so it’s very comfortable to pass sweeping remarks or you are just another prejudiced and ignorant Hindu on the internet. If you are the former (n I doubt it ) all I would ask you is to leave the comfort of your house to visit a Madarsa .If you are the later, I can only pity you

  • sanjeev

    @ Rajeev

    Here is an interesting article from Tavleen Singh (who i think can’t be labelled as sangh parivar member as she happens to be a sikh and married to muslim

    http://www.indianexpress.com/storyOld.php?storyId=59288

    I hope ignorant persons like mitra and other so called secularists accept the true reality after going through this article or else they will label Tavleen as sanghi.

    sanjeev

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Sanjeev,
    Did you compare debate done on NDTV/CNN-IBN on MF Hussain and Taslima Nasreen? It exposed the hypocrisy of Indian secualrism. I could not control my laughter listening to arguements from Shabnam hashmi.

    I have come to the conclusion that soft terrorist (ideological) from muslim community are oxygen for all the terror activities in the world. These are the people who should be arrested and may be eliminated Isarael style.

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Yes people like you must be singled out Israeli style ;)

    [Reply]

  • sanjeev

    Here is another article exposing the hypocrisy of the so called secular gang of india:

    Its by Pratap Bhanu Mehta, from centre for policy research, new delhi

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/freedoms-our-defence/586662/

    [Reply]

  • sanjeev

    @ Rajeev

    sorry rajeev,

    i have given up watching news on these sensationlist channels..i only watch DD news or r news on FM gold radio.

    i know this Indian secularism is a biggest joke in the world :)

    Anything can happen in india in the name of secularism and freedom of speech for the sake of minority (read muslim ) :)

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    Two Losers in this country Pandit Rajeev and Pandit Sanjeev have got HT Blog as the only place to vent their frustration. Is it something else? :P

    [Reply]

  • Ashish

    After all these serious comments, I think we all need a comic break.. quoting from an email just received:
    A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a calculator.

    At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of maths instruction.

    “Al-Gebra is a problem for us”, the Attorney General said. “They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values. They use secret code names like ‘X’ and ‘Y’ and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with co-ordinates in every country.

    As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, “There are 3 sides to every triangle”.

    When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, “If God had wanted us to have better weapons of maths instruction, he would have given us more fingers and toes.’

    White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the President. It is believed that the Nobel Prize for Physics will follow.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    ha ha ha ha . nice!!!

    [Reply]

  • sanjeev

    hilarious !!!

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    when they run out of existing Nobels; one for each year Obama is in office..
    There is probably no rule against multiple Nobel awards for multiple disciplines in the same year to the same person; while so far such a rule would have been largely academic, I think with Obama, this rule will soon be tested.
    Literature Nobel is his for the taking .. with all the fiction in his speeches (even if he has to share the Nobel with his speechwriters)..

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Why Physics?
    They don’t award nobles for Maths or Philosophy? Time they did

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    @SKS

    And these must be reserved for Muslims because of the historical sidelining Westerners have done to them..

    So far Muslims have not stated theat the nobels Jews received were undeserving; so you have to give them credit!

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Mosab hasan Yousef, an ex Hamas leader, who later became a Mosad spy, and converted to Christianity, has written a book titled “Son of Hamas”. Wall Street journal interviewed him on his opinions, perspectives….His father is also a leader of Hamas..

    Do you consider your father as a fanatic? “he is not a fanatic; he is a very moderate, logical person. What matters is not whether my father is fanatic or not; he is doing the will of a fanatic God. It does not mind whether he is a terrorist or a traditional muslim. At the end of the day a traditional Muslim is doing the will of a fanatic, fundamentalist, terrorist God. I know this is harsh to say. Most governments avoid this subject..

    “the problem is not in Muslims. the problem is with their God. They need to be liberated from their God. He is the biggest enemy. It has been 1400 years they have been lied to.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    So ‘Government funded religious travel’ (let’s call it GFRT) isn’t ‘Unique’ but only Haj subsidy has been targeted! So unfair!

    Research does help, even if, of ‘directed’ kind, to pick facts, as might be necessary for the ‘conclusion’ one has chosen to present. But ’secular’ journalism, at least here in India, is easier than that. For facts aren’t needed nor is their careful selection and for those on the cutting edge of secular journalism, fact invention is routine. Certainly, by those standards, Mr Zia is struggling.

    To come up with ‘govt funded religious travel’ or GFRT for questioning the criticism of Haj subsidy, suggests that research was involved. Instead of limiting himself to any one of either GFRT or subsidy, he uses both and implied smartly, that only Haj subsidy is criticized, without ever saying that both are/aren’t the same. But there may be ’small’ differences between the two:

    Subsidy of course is subsidy.

    GFRT does not seem to be a well defined concept, but Mr Zia must be referring to the costs involved in provision of various facilities and services provided by Govt. for the pilgrims. These costs include a part for the services rendered in India and another for outside India.
    For e.g. in case of Kailash Mansarovar, these are free medical inspection, security, escort cover, insurance cover and communication links and 4 days acco. provided by Govt of Delhi (at Delhi) etc, most of these within India. Then there is also a Rs 3250/pilgrim payment made by Govt to Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (KMVN) for arranging boarding and lodging on the Indian side.

    Indian side expenses for Haj, include cost of Haj houses, built in a number of state capitals (including a capital cost for the facility, often funded by the concerned state govt. There is a dedicated Haj terminal at Delhi Airport (can’t say for others), again involving a capital cost. I am not sure if medical tests, security etc is involved or not. There is also a fully dedicated Haj department maintained by Air India throughout the year.

    For expenses outside India:
    In case of Mansarovar, nothing much is known. Possibly, the escort, security and medical facilities continue to be provided on the chinese side as well. Interestingly, complaints regarding poor facilities on Chinese side are brushed aside by MEA, saying Chinese want a revision in the rates (last set in 1995) for better facilities.

    Foreign component of Haj expenses: expenditure on a contingent of seasonal local staff, supervisors, data entry operators, drivers and messengers, appointed in SA, a contingent of more than 600 personnel (incl. about 135 doctors, nurses and paramedics) on short-term deputation to SA, hospital facilities (about 100 beds) at Makkah, Madinah, medicines, ambulances, facilitation and coordination centres at Jeddah, Makkah probably, Madinah also.

    What is also interesting to note, is the kind of answers MEA gives for questions raised in LS or RS:
    1. Whenever there is a broad query (broad as in, about ’subsidy’ and ‘other facilities’) the answer, in case of Haj; includes a number for subsidy and another for expenses, while for Mansarovar, it is only one figure.
    2. When there is a precise question such as: ‘ whether the Union Government has been extending ’subsidy’ ( no mention of facilities) for pilgrimage of Indians abroad’, the answer never goes beyond Haj ( e.g. LS Unstarred Question no 3086 http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/ls/2006/08/23ls07.html)

    3. When a specific question was asked : whether Govt
    would also consider providing any subsidy on the lines of subsidy being provided for Haj Pilgrimage, the smart state minister for MEA repeats the same Rs 3250 story (of course never uses the word subsidy for this) and concludes with : ‘Kailash Mansarovar Yatra and Haj are essentially different so far as the number of pilgrims (not enough devotees? ) , mode of travel and the nature of terrain are involved. Therefore, there may not be a direct comparison between the two!
    http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/rs/2006/05/11rs27.htm

    Thus for some ’strange’ reason, Govt. has consistently failed to apply the word ‘Subsidy’ in case of Mansarovar costs. This could mean either a ‘consistent error’ or most likely an accounting conspiracy designed to discriminate against the poor minority, and worst of all, signed off by CAG as well!

    For the sharper but unfortunately oppressed beings, another ’small’ difference :
    - the total amount paid for 2002, 03, 04 for Mansarovar was around Rs. 0.43 Crs (or Rs 43 lacs), while for HaJ 2007 and 2008, it was more than Rs. 44.00 crs.
    -Haj subsidy that Mr Zia shows at Rs 390 crs is over and above that. Not just that, it seems that subsidy figures for Haj continue to be presented as ‘provisional’ for last 4-5 years. (i.e. besides the subsidy).

    Mr Zia could have checked a bit of History as well, as he has so carefully listed out the ‘proposed’ subsidy in Karnataka and the one announced in AP a ‘couple’ of years ago.

    Clearly then, there isn’t ANY VALID reason to target Haj subsidy alone!! Except the Discriminatory approach, what say Zia?

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt ‘underwrites’ a part of the cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a ’subsidy’ is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS,
    “Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt ‘underwrites’ a part of the cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a ’subsidy’ is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)”

    Only Zia can answer this.. but, on past performance, even if he deigns to, it is likely to decry your tendency to split hairs..

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Ashish
    You mean just tendency?
    That is all we do, apart from full time hate mongering, that is

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    aha.. but, Mr Zia is a gentleman, not given to invectives

  • SKS Mumbai

    ‘Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault with government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government help?’

    Now that is a profound question. Perhaps Zia can show us an ‘economically privileged’ Hindu who will find fault with government help to make a trip to switzerland a reality, or riding a chauffeur driven BMW (all expense paid) for that matter?

    First of all what difference does it make, whether you are talking about an economically privileged or underprivileged person here, unless that bounty is meant for reducing that economic gap?
    (BTW, I am not sure if Haj susbsidy is only for underpriveleged ones, and even if, it is, the validity of above question does not change)

    Secondly, on what basis does a secular Government decide that my all-expense trip to swiss alps, is spiritually less important than someone’s dip in Ganges and more importantly, why should a secular govt be even required to measure spirituality quotient?

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    @SKS

    I read somewhere that Haj subsidies were never requested by the community. I believe it was instituted during the oil shock of early 1970s and institutionalized ever since. This may be one situation where one smart politician created a permanent vote bank through this master stroke.

    [Reply]

  • ajay

    those politicians who are using vote bank politics must be dealt with severely.other people who easily get caugt by words of these soundrels should apply there common sense

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    There is no dispute that everything possible should be done to uplift ALL., to make all contributors to a great country and humanity.

    Money should be spent wisely; it also should be spent on all who need, not just Muslims.

    Money is only one, and may be even a lesser part, as far as upliftment of Muslims are concerned. Unlike Hindus, Christians, jews, budhists etc they do not give much emphasis to education. It simply is not their “core” belief. When Hindu and kids belonging to other religions right from early ages are inculcated “Vidya dhan sarva dhanal pradhan” , the focus of Muslim kids is memorizing Quran. After that, they get into petty trades.

    Unless education is considered as the most important factor and embraced by the family and community, nothing will happen; complaints will remain.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Gopi
    I don’t know, but it can’t be that simple.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Quote:
    ‘While it gives Air India 150,000 assured passengers every year (that’s the total number of seats on all Indian carriers criss-crossing the country on any given day), helping it KEEP AFLOAT, the grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with’

    This is really all that it takes!
    One article by a non-entity, (he/she could be anything, journalist, activist, third rate self proclaimed intellectual, rabble rouser, dancer, singer, whatever. Even if he wasn’t, that article alone will make him a front ranking secular warrior), asserting that Haj subsidy is really a subsidy for Air India.

    Watch that dumb ‘assertion’ turn into a foundational truth for the Indian secularrazzi, to be repeated so many times that, Hitler would have them rather Goebbels.

    It just does not matter that the fraudulent claim is immediately thrashed to pieces by precise facts and irrefutable documentary evidence, the ‘Truth’ once revealed, is the Divine Law for our secular believers. To question the law is apostasy or a communal propaganda by Hindutva forces, or as Mr Zia claims, a ’stick’ to beat poor Muslims with.

    For a moment, even if we accept that fraudulent claim, what changes Mr. Zia? Muslims are still getting a subsidy, aren’t they? Or can you book a return ticket for Patna-Delhi-Jeddah for Rs.12000 (or Rs 16000 for last year only)? Bulk discounts? Yes why not, we will see later how much difference your direct chartering can make. Unfortunately facts happen to be facts and if they are communal so be it (in the meanwhile Mr Zia could check whether direct charter negotiations were attempted at some point of time or not and what went wrong). Here are the facts:

    1. It isn’t 150,000 prize customers in the first place, the number for 2010 is more like 120,000 and that after annual increases of the order of 10,000-15,000. approximately 50% of that is carried by Saudi airlines.
    2. Spare/standby aircrafts are a part of any commercial airlines fleet, but they are primarily used when regular aircrafts are sent for scheduled or unscheduled maintenance. Haj means 2-3 months of a steep peak forcing most of the commercial airlines to opt for short term leases, called wet lease. Being short-term, they are by definition much more expensive than longer leases. It does not take an Einstein to understand that the capital cost of the wet leased aircrafts will have to be recovered from the passengers who fly during that peak window. For e.g. If you look at the state electricity boards, their normal procurement costs (for the pool) will rarely exceed Rs 4-5/unit. But during peak months, the incremental power is often purchased at Rs. 10-15/unit range. It matters, but little, that your requirement for those few months constitutes a huge volume, the annual fixed cost will still be recovered during those two months. Further, it seems that many of the aircrafts have to undertake one trip without passengers (i.e. no backhaul)
    3. If AIR INDIA was really saving itself by grabbing the prized Haj Service, why does it keep on requesting the Govt to allow other airlines in the space? Isn’t that Monopolistic, Mr Zia ? Last publicly known attempt was around 2008. http://www.financialexpress.com/news/haj-subsidy-has-air-india-fuming/360651/0
    4. BTW Muslims anyway have the option of not going through Haj committee and a large number of Muslims actually go through private tour operators (~ 40,000 or so), so why are suffering the tyranny of AI? Why? Especially when it also gives the so-unfair-stick to Hindutva Guys ?

    But all these are lies, a hindutva propaganda, sanghi hate mongering, the only Truth and what we need to remember for ever is that, it is not the ‘Poor Hajis’ but AI who is being subsidized. (soon we will discover it wasn’t even AI, it were the vile Bramhins-Bania who were fattening themselevs)

    You know what, some 100 years down the line, secular historian will cite these and assert Haj subsidy was a myth and contrary evidence will be subjected to secular tools called contextualizing History and presenting multiple perspectives and another 100 years Haj subsidy won’t even be a subject.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Muslims will go on itching, bitching, scratching…

    The only solution is dictatorship (why do you think almost all Muslim countries are dictatorships?) or someother way of controlling, because they respect power; they just cannot operate independently in a democracy. Time and again it ahs been demonstrated that they cannot form, suatain a democracy.

    India will remain a democracy, meaning the scratching and bitching will be with us for a long time, unless a region is converted to another Pakistan and round up ALL Muslims to that region.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    No all muslims should be packed up and sent to pakistan. No more divisions for these ungrateful people.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Is this RE another avatar of Soft-terrorits Bobby?

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Tonight i will get to meet biggest anti national..Javed Naqvi (dawn reporter from delhi )

    I want to ask him some tough questions ..

    If any knowledge u can share about this nut ?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ask him just one thing. Is he Indian or Pakistani?

    If he is Indian and beleives in secularism, why is he with Pakistan on Kashmir.

    Secondly ask him what happened to 20% hindu population of pakistans. How many guharat massacre took place in Pakistan?

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Aah Rs 390 crs isn’t it.
    Last statement by Dr Tharoor pegs it at some Rs 826 crs for 2009!and still counting all these numbers continue to be Provisional.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I have always wondered if Hajj performed on khairat of infidel nation (India) is haram or Halal.

    I am pretty sure that all the muslims perforing Hajj on donations doled out by hindu-dominated India are commiting shirk and their hajj is invalid according to Islam.

    I guess most of the muslims are destined for jahannum.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Does not matter, as long as it is free.

    It is the government we should blame; and by that voters like us. what the politicians have done is one more way of institutionalizing “minority” , this time with huge allocation. Now the bar of spending is set high, and every following year it will be higher than the prior year.

    Like any government spending schemes, only 10% will go to the purpose; other 90% will go to the b ureaucracy and contractors!

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    ha ha ha ha !

    where else they can go ?

    mulleh ki dor masjid tak

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    arey pandit ki langot apni dhoti sambhalo yaar

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Ashish
    In RE, you have one of the original ones. His views on Premjee’s Billions and stuff are part of the original curriculum. Don’t be surprised, when you are told:
    1. It is Indian Muslims living in the gulf whose earnings drive the larger part of Indian economy.
    2. That Indira Gandhi used her charm to get cheap oil from the house of Sauds and thus Hindus have been living off Muslim charity for ages.
    3.That there is a conspiracy under which muslim intellectuals are being murdered and this has gone for many decades now.
    4. That “Urdu” was eliminated as a language to prevent muslim advancement.
    5. Some more that I came across recently: the conspiracy against Muslims also include: introducing “gate-keeper” mentality-type service commission exams and entrance exams for professional courses .That a scientist was picked to become a Muslim President of India, to diminish OR extinguish his contribution to science.
    That (hold your breath) Shahrukh Khan and Amir Khan have Hindu wives, because they are rich and famous – and their wives will inherit their crores.
    6. Of course we all know about 9/11, 26/11, Karkare, Batla and types. Recent violence in Karnataka on Tasleema’s article was also a Hindutva conspiracy.(Confirmed already as I see)
    7. Upper caste Hindus joined hands with British in a conspiracy to weaken Islamic Kings, freedom fight was mainly a Muslim venture, but Gandhi and Nehru forged another conspiracy to divide India, so that Muslims were weakened.
    8. His views on how state is dealing with Maoists because they are Hindus shouldn’t surprise anyone. The difference lies, not in perceptions but in definitions itself.

    Reasoned debate is useless and anyway impossible. Facts must adhere to ’secular’ requirement else they are conspiracies. When even fairly well ensconced people, from the core of mainstream, do not hesitate in asserting nonsense like Haj subsidy is for Air India, never miss the opportunity to impress you with Quranic wisdom, or to offer Quranic justification while urging Muslims to seek education or to not hate the jews, we know it isn’t just another problem.
    This combined with the values our politicians operate on, will ensure that we just have to live with it the way it is and just hope it does not get worse during our or our children’s lifetime.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    @SKS

    There is more; especially with the advent of ex SIMI turned into PFI/SDPI as a political party for the disadvantaged, “not just Muslims”:

    1)Brahmins are colluding with USA/UK to make India a Jesustan
    2)Reservations etc are farce; Brahmins control everything (i am still looking for those powerful Brahmins!)
    3) Muslims did well in the first 30 years of independence; then a coordinated conspiracy started to marginalize them, to exterminate their intellectuals
    4)The elite Muslims migrated to Pakistan (we know how that has helped PAkistan) and the real backward Muslims stayed back in India
    5) Gandhiji was in collusion with Brahmins to marginalize Muslims
    6)Lodhi and Gazni are not Muslims,a nd Somnath temple destruction should not be attributed to Muslims
    7)Babur loved all and did not destroy any places of worship
    8)Auragazeb is maligned by Brahmins; he was a great king who cared for all equally (and Akbar was not a great king)
    9)Shivaji looted neighboring kingdoms, and have done more damage to india than any Moghul or other foreign invaders have done
    10)”Mapilla rebellion” in Kerala that happened with Khilafet was an agrarian revolution and not one where muslims targeted and raped and killed Hindus and destroyed their palces of worship
    11) tipu Sultan was a benevolent king who did not destroy palces of worship of Hindus and Christians (although history of Kerala clearly traces his “patayottam” (rapid fight ) for the massive conversions in Malabar area, including naming Calicut as Islamabad for a while
    12)All the communal troubles are started by Brahmins to further marginalize Muslims

    List goes on

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS @Gopi Thomas
    great compilations; SKS, great summary of the core arguments we have heard on this blog over the last few months.
    This blog has run out of ideas.. tired, tiresome and repetitive.. poorly researched and lately even without a central idea.
    I can sense the next blog coming.. on why Ranganath Mishra recommendations must be adopted. Stealing from a well known poster, first seen in London, “Sachar spotted the cancer, Mishra has the answer”.
    Trying to remember some Muslim Maoist name; honestly can’t. By the way, SP/RE/UI.. whoever/ whatever, I was in Lalbazar (Calcutta police HQ) .. staying with a certain doctor employed with the police the day Charu Mazumdar was brought in. I have heard enough stories of how Naxals used to be handled by the Calcutta Police; suffice it to say KPS Gill was really tame in comparison. Honestly speaking, I have never ever thought about the religion of the Naxals; now that I do, yes, you are right. All of these guys I heard of were Hindus-excepting Jangal Santhal – even though I am sure they will be quite amused to be called such. But, the brutality on both sides (Naxals and the state) was totally secular. I hope I am not told next that Maoists and the Government are in cahoots to rid the world of Muslims.
    Hindus become Maoists because they just like to kill and are afforded protection by the state; and Muslims do not- inspite of all the discrimination, because they follow the religion of peace. Hmmm…..
    Talking about KPS Gill; so, his forces killed Muslims and then dressed them up as Khalistanis, correct? Just checking…
    MMM’s (Much Maligned Modi) goons killed Muslims while his police shot dead 400 Hindus .. inconvenient, but true.
    Gopi, great item 4 on your list. Precisely..

    [Reply]

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    @Ashish

    ‘Honestly speaking, I have never ever thought about the religion of the Naxals’

    Hmm that shows your communal mindset, Bhai sahab.

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS
    my communal mindset is well established on this blog.. garv se kaho…

    RE Reply:

    Arey bhai then stop living off Muslim money and Muslim oil. Dead simple as that. You hate us like anything and yet want to live off our money! hahaha great

    [Reply]

    RE Reply:

    You didn’t answer my post cuz you DON”T have an answer . Stop being a MORON for a change. You sound like a joker

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Sorry guys, I underestimated the power of contextualisation and perspectivasation and the time it might take to secularise the history. It is faster.
    See what India’s great son, Mr Kuldip Nair has to say about 26/11 and Karkare:

    Quote: More worrisome are the Hindu extremists rearing their head. The murder of police officer Hemant Karkare, who was probing the Malegaon blasts, was the doing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Bajrang Dal”
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-kuldip-nayar-politics-of-terrorism-hs-01

    See how simple it is to present TRUTH. If you want first mover advantage, it is time to write a Book :
    November 26th 2008, Mumbai : Revolt of the oppressed against the vile Hindu Elite.
    You can try a Bharat Ratna for yourself and freedom fighter’s pension for Mr Kasab

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS
    for a few pieces of silver.. Mr Nayar can be made to say anything..
    He does not find a publisher on this side of the border anymore; don’t judge him too harshly.. he needs to earn a living somehow.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    @Ashish

    I will take Kuldip against Naqvi (who also writes for Dawn) anytime!

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Ashish

    the latest seems to be “garv se kaho hum internet hindu hain”

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Nice one…

    [Reply]

  • Indian

    Victim Swami Laxmanananda portrayed as a villain by biased media Alarming 5 fold increase in Kandhamal Christian population from six per cent in 1971 to 27 per cent in 2001 ,It began with the arrival of Christian missionaries in the area who found the remote region very conducive to conduct prosetylization amongst the poor tribals. The conversions continued unhindered until the arrival of Swami Laxmanananda who put strenuous efforts to stop conversions and help reconversion to Hindouism as well. If not for his effort Kandhamal would have been another Nagaland in the making where the separatist movement has wrecked havoc in the state. The aggressive Christian proselytization in Orissa today pitched previously peaceful tribals into warring camps of Christians and non-Christian. This has has vitiated the peace that has existed with various communities for millenia. Next target is KARNATAKA and they are facing stiff resistance from Hindus here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    Another TRAIL BLAZING Research!!
    Truth behind Sachin’s 200 runs Innings. Must Read
    http://altnews.asia/content/2010/03/11/who-controls-fanatic-india-xi-dr-abdul-ruff-colachal-0

    Author is one more feather in the crowded cap of our JN University of Secular Research Sciences.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @SKS,
    does the JNU reserve seats for the mentally challenged?

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ ashish

    Infact it has become fashionable to criticize govt and hindus in JNU. There is whole lot a generation mostly elite bengali who tretas it fashionable to be politically correct and being anti national.

    Unfortunately the leftist brigade have penetarted deeply in JNU faculty where it has become fashionable to criticise anything indian,

    Infact JNU has proved to be a factory of producing traitors in the garb of liberal thinkers

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @ Ashish

    Yes there is reservation for such elements like Rauff in centres of JNU in schools of languages and international relations. These centres are for Urdu, Arabic, Persian, west asian studiess, etc.

    In fact these centres are reserved exclusively of urdu-persian- arabi speaking intellectuals.

    Hence we used to call these departments as UPA

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    It also shows people live in different planets. Also, it is like Newton’s law. The more appeasement and more give aways, the more demand for more and cries of discrimination. The person’s last name sounds like a typical Kerala “house” name; and if he is from there, it is an even “bigger” problem. Because whatever may be the issue in other parts of India, they were part of the ruling coalition from almost day 1; they got their district formed, they are one of the richest groups etc etc.

    [Reply]

  • SKS Mumbai

    @Ashish

    Reservations for mentally challenged?
    Interesting question , but for which levele admission or for faculty.

    [Reply]

  • kamaloodin

    WHO IS THE REAL MINORITY ? A HINDU WHEN HE WANTS TO GO TO RELIGIOUS PLACE HE WAS NOT GIVEN ANY MONEY. BUT IF A MUSLIM WANTS TO GO MACCA HE WAS GIVEN. WHY ?

    [Reply]

  • Nive

    Hi, I like to go Hindu pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god Shiva. self-employed DAD government can I go by deputation.

    [Reply]

  • Nive

    I like to go by deputation becose i can’t go due to financial

    [Reply]