Israel and Indian Muslims: Where we stand

you are worried about Palestinian /Gaza. why? Why is that “indian muslims” do not speak for Kashmiri pundits? why dont indian muslims tell thier muslims bros in kashmir to give up arms and join in development of indian nation?

This shows your typical hipocracy that you can never be part of what you always say!

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Anil Kumar Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 9:31 pm

Muslims can’t criticise their muslim brothers no matter what

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Indian Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

hahahaahha………….First ask Netas to be part of Indian development!!!

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Shah Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 6:16 am

Pankaj,

How ignorant you are,

Not only Indian muslims but even Kashmiri muslims speak out for Pandits and want them to return. Even sepratists support the Pandits right to return. What will you say now?

Indian muslims also tell Kashmir muslims to leave sepratists ideology and be a part of India. Just google Maulana Wahiddudin Khan, Asghar Ali Engineer and other muslims leaders and what they have said on Kashmir issue. IGNORANCE is NOT EXCUSE

Now who is a hypocrite? Atleast be a human, then you will care for people Gaza

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India, during its “non-aligned” days, did not have diplomatic relations with Israel. In fact, before 1980s, India would not let any of its citizens to travel to Israel and South Africa.

Countries change, and alliances should be developed benefiting both parties. India and Israel have many similarities – both face Islamist extremism, both has innovative people, both are democracies, both are corrupt.

However, India should always follow “trust, but verify”. Israel is a cut-throat country, and we should be cognizant of their interests and bargains.

One thing Indian Muslims should understand is that India undertakes strategic relationships with all Indians in mind. Just because there is apalestinian issue, it does not mean that we cannot pursue strategic relationships with Israel.

The sad truth is that it is Muslims who are letting Palestinians down. They are looked down in middle eastern countries, Arab countries do not give the needed support (other than making noise in the UN). KSA and Jordan and Egypt are in cohorts with Israel. Egypt closed the tunnel from the West BAnk just last week basically shutting off all extits for Palestine. So, before Indian Muslims start their protest, they should understand what their fellow Muslism are doing. I would say that they should protest in fronmt of their Wahabi embassy or Egyptian embassy or Jordanian embassy before marching in front of Indian govt buildings or Israeli consulate.

And then theer is alarger question – why would Indian Muslims evven have a protest march? Palestine and Israel issues are to be resolved between them. Whys hould Indian Muslism even get involved? Do they have a dog in this race? Muslims internalize problems (affecting Muslism only , not affecting other human beings) of their UMMa and bring unnecessary complexities .

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Indian Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 11:26 am

Can you tell me why a big EU diplomatic delegate is coming to visit Kandhmal, Orissa shortly, for fact finding matter. What these guys have to do with Kandhmal when scores of other died in naxal violence in nearby region. Isnt that they also have affinity for there coreligionist!!!!

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MKS Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

Its not that they have affinity towards there coreligionist they just want to show how morally superior they are interms of protect the civil rights of minority.They will preach some gyan on how to protect minority intrest and dissapear.I am sure they will not say that they are in danger from jews and hindus and i am 200% sure that they will not send sucide bombers in the name of religion to bomb indian parliament or civilians.

This obssesiveness with palistine is a muslim trait .Muslims all around the world use this as a propaganda to hate jews and in india muslims use it to hate jews and hindus.

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The Article was going really well – pragmatism, mutual benefit and national interest above everything else, and I thought good for once things are not been evaluated from the bigoted and narrow lens of religion when I was hit by the last couple of lines. ‘People of the Book’ is that the main or the only way you can ask the Muslims to reconcile bilateral ties with Israel ?

Could you not have asked them to put their ‘watan’s’ interests ahead of their ummah ’s for the sake of security of their own country ? Didnt the Israels rush us ammunition when our field guns were running out of it in the Kargil war ? Doesn’t the Israel intelligence working against the same elements who are responsible for the cold blooded murder of thousands of Indians over the past 20 years ?

Couldn’t you have summarized the reasons which you yourself have written about in the article as the ‘answer’ for your ‘brethren’ ? Or do you think this is the only one which will sell ? ? ? I think you misunderstand or misrepresent the thought of your community.

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Hi Zia,
who is muslim and who is non-muslim?
why the hell we people keep finding diffrences amoung ourselves?
We are indians we are peace loving people. my friend’s list has names like Imran, Ram, Sukhjeet and Joel. i don’t find any difference between them. Leave aside Isreal and all, think about India and Inidans.

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Good to see the thoughts , very positive ,

Just tell me one thing , is their any thing like Indian Muslim , I don’t think .

Muslims are brothers with every other muslim irrespective of the country else in Afghanistan war , there was no need for so called holy warriors from Sudan, Nigeria, Jordan, Iran , Iraq or any where possible . Also I do not remember any one struggle which have been won by these great warriors .

As far as I know , country comes first , bullshit to my own religion , my religion is not identity , I am an Indian , this thoght is not prevalent among many of us , that why our neighbours get support from the people with in India .For an example The so called country pakistan has named their missiles as Babur, Ghouri, Abdali , and you know who they were ? They all attacked on our land , because this generation some time feels that there was no India , though I don’t agree but thoughts are personal .

Where ever we go , Our identity will remain as Indian , after that it comes who am I , Hindu, Jain, Muslim or anything else .

So instead of going on protests against the embassy of Israel , they should work first towards abolishment of illitracy , Poverty.

It’s the land of India which gives the food to all of us , then only we get the power to shout because our stomachs are full.

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Farooq Reply:
February 17th, 2010 at 4:11 am

Ajay,
The boundaries and borders are created by men, i do not understand how country comes first just because one was born there. What if tomorrow Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh become different countries and your mom belongs to Maharshtra and dad belongs to MP … now what comes first to you? Every Indian shouts from the top of his voice that country comes first, yet will run away to US/UK and settle down there at the very first opportunity. We definitely do love our birth place and will help its development by paying taxes, doing charity, etc. But Muslims around the world are our brothers. We may have some bad brothers , who are doing wrong and it is upto us to educate them. We treat all Muslims as our brothers and they are closer to our heart, because they worship the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, without associating any partners with him.

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Venkata Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

Well Farooq if that is the case it is my opinion that one must love the whole of humantiy regardless of what they think about god or associating any patners with him.

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vivek singh Reply:
March 31st, 2010 at 10:15 pm

Farooq problem with u muslim that u think that ur religious more important than country thats why u muslim are backward

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Muhammed M. (New York) Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 9:58 am

Vivek: Alhamdulillah, the Muslims are not backward – if u’ve read history u wouldn’t have commented.

Venkata: The holy Quran says to love “thy neighbors” no matter what religion your neighbors belong to – but think of what happened during Gujarat pogrom when neighbors butchered their own Muslim neighbors. So when it comes to India loving humanity must come from all sides not just putting burden on Muslims only.
Thanks

Anti semtis is anti islamic yet islam calls jews descendants of Pigs.. Some dichotomy there.

Yes do protest over israeli bombarding but also spare some protest for
(1) Paelstian terrorism
(1) pakistani terrorism in kashmir and elsewhere .. we don’t hear much protest on that front, certainly not with the intensity which we see for palestinian cause

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In the Israel-Palestine dispute neither one of the parties can be singularly blamed and your stand often depends on which side you belong. In India, we’ve more than enough on our plate to solve rather than taking idealogical positions on disputes in far away lands.

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Nikhil is right. I too do not understand why some (or manny?) Indian Muslims are obsessed with Palestine. Add to that Chechnya, Uyghar, and of course Kashmir.

A major reason for the Muslim predicament is the religiously ingrained concept of Umma, and as such many Muslims do not accept the notion of nation-state (even if they accept outwardly, they do not internally. In fact the religion forbids them to be “patriotic” for a piece of territorry). They have one nation, which is the colllection of all Muslim nations, Umma. Hence they are concerned more about Palestine, or Chechnya than their neighborhood of Thane or Mysore, or their larger nation, India..

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If Israeli attacks concern Indian Muslims, then these daily reports of Muslims massacring civilians in some bomb attacks in some part of the world every day has also to concern the Indian Muslim.

But the author did not say anything about that. I wonder why. How about the plight of Hindus in Muslim nations? Can Hindus even worship openly in Islamic societies?

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Sam, Reply:
January 19th, 2010 at 2:39 am

Dhimmis do not have a right for building new places of worship.
Koran prohibits non-muslims from building new places of public worship by the Infidels.

So read Koran before you ask for religious equality in “islamic lands”

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A country maintain relations with other contries per its strategic socio-politico-economic interests. Historically, India had always had socio-economic relations with the middle-eastern countries – our people visited these areas, we had trade and commerce with them etc. Upon the creation of Israel, we being the champions of freedom in Asia at that time, naturally allied with the Palestinians and continue to do so. Later on, owing to progressive strategic needs, we gradually began lean on Israel. As a matter of fact, India is one of those very rare countries who can be trusted by both the Arabs and the Israelis to play a bipartisan role in the region to bring peace to it.

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Most people dont understand that Israel and the Arabs are both US allies!!! The Arabs are hostile to a Shia Iran and Palestine has become a football for the Arabs, Iran and USA. India has a more considerate stand on Palestine as opposed to some Arab states. The Arabs are less paranoid about Israel than they are about Iran, for them Iran is the number one enemy.

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Islam is a polotical idoelogy and it needs to be understood.
Read the book Partition of india by B R Ambedkar. The book is freely available on the net and it is a best read on the reasons why paksitan was created.
To know islam we need to do some reserch and think a lot why in islam the punishment of leaving islam is Death.
Then we also need to think why Mafia gives death sentence to anyone who leaves mafia.
One of the best authors on islam is Robert Spence and he is availabe on youtube and also his books are great.
Do some reserch and you shall find the truth..Hope the Author has the guts to keep critical comments

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Muslims are birds of feather flock together. If there is a problem they will stick together irrespective of country,race. They love their religion more than anything else.

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Farooq Reply:
February 17th, 2010 at 4:16 am

Yes, we do. Because borders and boundaries are man made.

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karthik Reply:
March 9th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

Religion is also man made. .

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Hi Zia,,
A true muslims iman should be only to GOD the almighty and not to fellow muslims.There is no place in the world where muslims are stopped from offering namaz or from fasting in ramzan or reading and following holy Quran.Obiviously you muslims are not intrested in doing all these and are rather intrested in glorifing islam rather than than glorifying GOD or the creator or ALLAH the almighty(whatever u prefer to call him).You think you are born superior like the brahmins use to feel long back.Kashmir and palestine is a political topic and dont involve islam /muslim in that.The day any muslim is stopped from offering namaz/prayers the whole non muslim community of this world will fight jihad for muslims.This is with due respect to large number of true,respectable and broadminded muslims

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Mr Zia Haq:

You end your column with this:

“How do we, as Indian Muslims, at once reconcile our bilateral ties with Israel and our support for Palestinians? The answer lies in Islam’s very approach towards Judaism. Remember, we are the very People of the Book. Remember, anti-Semitism is anti-Islamic.”

I do understand that the People of the Book refers to Jews and Christians. They are allowed to live under Muslim rule as dhimmis provided they pay a special tax. People like me, an idol-worshiping “infidel” would not have that option of buying my freedom to live as a second-class citizen in an Islamic state. For me, the only choices are convert or die.

But then even the Jews are not all that highly regarded by Islam. A hadith considered authentic by Muslims and referred to frequently goes:

“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until you make war on the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree, and the rock or tree will say: Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, kill him!’”

As you can tell, I did not make this up on the spur of the moment upon reading your piece. I did a simple search to learn what Islam’s position is regarding Jews and how Muslims generally consider Jews.

For the record, I quote from this site http://www.pmw.org.il/specrep-37.html

BEGIN QUOTE

The religious ideology of the Palestinian Authority religious leaders as expressed in the Friday sermons and religious lessons can be summarized by nine essential principles, five regarding the Jews, and four regarding Israel:

Jews

• Jews are the enemy of Allah.

• Allah cursed the Jews for all eternity.

• Islam is fighting a continuous religious war against the Jews.

• The killing of Jews is a religious obligation.

• Palestinians are the vanguard in this war against the Jews, and all Islamic nations are obligated to assist in this war.

Israel

• All of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea [which includes all of Israel] is a religious Wakf – an Islamic religious trust. Any Muslim who relinquishes any part to Israel is damned to Hell.

• All agreements with Israel are inherently temporary in nature and are signed only because of Israel’s temporary balance of power advantage.

• Allah will replace Muslims who shirk their obligation to battle Israel.

• The ultimate destruction of Israel is a certainty.

The Palestinians repeatedly use Islamic sources to defend this religious hatred, even demanding the killing of Jews as a current obligation and the will of Allah. At least four times in recent months Palestinian religious leaders have taught publicly that the following Hadith (Islamic traditions attributed to Muhammad) is an authoritative directive of Islam today, expressing Allah’s will that obedient Muslims kill Jews. The Hadith itself states:

“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until you make war on the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree, and the rock or tree will say: Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, kill him!’”

Recently a preacher attacked the Arab-Muslim world leaders because they are avoiding attacking Israel with missiles and tanks, and threatened them that Allah is liable to “replace them with other men… that fight for Allah… to liberate the lands from the defilement of the Jews”.

It is to be stressed that these broadcasts by officially appointed religious leaders, presenting the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as an eternal religious conflict, have been preached long before the current violence began. This preaching it is not a reaction to the present violence, and possibly the opposite is true. The P.A.’s religious world-view, that sees agreements with Israel as inherently temporary and war against the Jews as an expression of Allah’s will, has in all likelihood fueled the hatred that has lead to Palestinian terror and violence.

END QUOTE

I am no expert on Islam. I have to rely on Muslims who understand what Islam is about and what they say about the duties of a devout Muslim.

Please do help us infidels understand this better.

Sincerely,
Atanu

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Hi Farooq

You say Muslims all over the world are your brothers…agreed.But if this is true you must agree all humans in the world are your brothers.Well that means israelis are your brothers too since they are also humans . So if two of your brothers are fighting well you must listen to both sides of the argument.

well I think you are a devout Muslim and beleive in The holy Quran. Similarly Jews have their own holy book The Torah which promises the Jews Their holy land. Also Jews have been prosecuted all over the world for more than a millenia so they do deserve a land for themselves.Also you say boundries and borders are man made….so does that imply the nation of India is man made too and shoudn’t exist

Best wishes
Kiran

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Hi i understand the strategic need of alieing with Israel. But i oppose it, countries like israel and pakistan which claims to be democratic but treats minorities as second class citizens. I am a muslim and have never felt as a second class citizen in india. More over i cannot imagine of leaving my motherland and going to an unknown land and call it my country just on the basis of religion . This is how israel was created. If we support israel we support Pakistani ideologically . And i am proud of my indian ideology and will never accept frienship with israel and pakistan or any other religious fundamental country (personal view) .

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Hi,
Basically Israel is doing extremely good in technology and science and more important is they are not violent and fanatics like Palestinian arabs.So i wud like u to support Israel.
Important thing is Arabs dont consider Indian moslems pure moslems because indian moslems are not of Semitic race,Indian moslems were basically hindus in the past who were converted to islam by moslem raiders like Khilji,Tughlak,Abdali and many so invadors.So think of the nation where u live in and be faithful to it.Out of India u r not considered pure moslems.

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Pratibha ji me aapki youth team me shamil hona chahta hu, aap ek bar mere kaam ko dekhiye DESH SEVA ka mouka dijiye……………….

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Pratibha ji me aapki youth team me shamil hona chahta hu, aap mera kaam dekhiye or DESH SEVA ka ek mouka dijiye

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he is not very nice to biharis, rarely mentions sir ali imam, hasan imam, mazhural haque and sir sultan ahmed, typica.

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HTTP://Guide2oz.com.au/blogs/entry/Has-Anyone-Located-Some-All-natural-Cures…

Israel and Indian Muslims: Where we stand : They Call Me Muslim…