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Today I convert, though momentarily but happily, willingly. For all my faith, I am determined to consider the Babri Masjid issue without my skullcap on. I tried being a Hindu for a while, not quite the practising way, but hopefully sincerely enough to reflect on what the dust of the Babri mosque should give rise to.

As I pitch tent in a different quarter, I wonder what many would make of this. It is likely that this would be panned as pretentious posturing of a ‘masked’ Muslim. It is any way difficult to go off the beaten track and not pay a small price here and there.

Truth is, as far as the issue of the Babri mosque is concerned, I have always believed that Muslims, more than Hindus, should step out of their emotional torpor and unrelenting, craven adherence to passion. To overcome the trauma of a razed mosque, passion is a net we must flee.

The “darkest chapter”, the “black spot” of history, the papers have described the hurtful demolition of a disused mosque built by the Moghul emperor Babar. The issue is back from the rubble to make news.

The M.S. Liberhan commission, set up to inquire how and who were behind the demolition, has turned in its report after 4,000 or so sittings and 17 Decembers.

Seventeen years is a long time. The tide of toxic Hindutva (an antiphrasis of blissful Hinduism) whipped up by the BJP no longer ‘bestirs the hearts of men and angels’. Congealed by time, the lacerating wound of Muslims no longer squirts boiled blood. A superficial scar nonetheless remains.

What Muslims ought to do now? They should simply let law take its course because that’s what they have promised. Forgive, forget and shut the damn case up.

Is that easier said than done? Am I oversimplifying things, when the ground reality could be much more complex?

No, and to the contrary, reconciling life without the Babri masjid should be less difficult than Muslims imagine it to be.

Our final conciliatory gesture will only have the benefit of it being presaged by an already conciliatory stand we have taken.

Even as a strife-torn quest to rebuild a mosque failed, Muslims took the first big step towards conciliation without even realising it.

For, as things stand today, the position taken by the All-India Babri Masjid Action Committee (there are other splinter movements with similar names) is commendable. Whatever the verdict, Muslims will abide by it, is the committee’s stand.

What is this but a step to conciliation and rightful resolution?

“If court says mandir (temple), then mandir. If court says mosque, then mosque. Faisla hamaare haq mein ho ya na ho, hum court ke faisle par amal karenge (Regardless of which way the verdict goes, we will accept it,” Babri movement leader and former diplomat Syed Shahabuddin had told me sometime ago. I had called by his humble home in a less salubrious part of south Delhi for some small talk over afternoon tea.

If we want reason to guide us to a way out, these two questions must invariably be asked. How incontrovertible is a Ram temple at Ayodhya? On the other hand, how sacrosanct is a mosque for Muslims at the same site?

Only a devout Hindu can answer the first question, though the temple issue was born not in the hearts of the apolitical, spiritually preoccupied clergy but in the slanted laboratory of RSS-BJP-espoused Hindutva and its self-appointed minsters.

So, I tried being a Hindu for a moment. I find that I believe in a pantheon of Gods, among them Lord Rama. Devotees nonetheless have the freedom to pamper their own special Gods over others, a unique thing. A Hanuman devotee swears by his agility, a Durga devotee by her prowess to surmount evil. Lord Rama nonetheless has an overarching lore attached to his image and persona.

The place of his birth, therefore, regardless of whether it is mythical or historical, is then of the highest importance. When this importance is deliberately whipped up and brought to the surface by an organised movement, backed by political leaders, it takes the shape of an obsession. An unfinished task that must be completed.

To that end, a Ram temple at Ayodhya is irreplaceable. BJP leader LK Advani chose to round off this grain of ideology (in Bhopal ahead of the recent polls) this way: “Yeh hamare aastha ka mamla hai. (This is a matter of our Hindu sentiment).” For a Hindu, a culmination of these factors makes a Ram temple such an important thing.

How indestructible is a mosque then at this disputed site. The answer would have been completely different had the mosque still stood in its place.

Understandably, it is not possible for a Muslim to simply consign a standing mosque to another faith.

It is one thing to give up a living mosque, quite another to keep on struggling to rebuild a razed one. It’s perhaps the will of Allah that the mosque was pulled down. In the interest of the community and the country, Muslims should simply give the case up.

This is not a one-off view. Famous Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, whose son Zafarul Islam Khan edited the Milli Gazette for a while, had articulated long time ago that in order to respect sentiments of their Hindu brethen, Muslims should readily give up their claim of the disputed site. I was meaning to call on the maulana lately to urge him to reiterate his stand, now that Liberhan has submitted his report. But I have woefully failed to take time out of my daily grind.

Muslims can find sanction for such sacrifice of the mosque in the Quran itself. This will only reinforce the Muslim belief that the Text is an intimation to immortality, one that can be peeled of its many layers to attune it to existing needs.

Surah Al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) or Chapter 22 of the Quran states: “Had not Allah checked one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure.” (Translation by Yusufali, cited by Centre for Muslim-Jewish Engagement, University of Southern California).

The Quran therefore clearly forbids destruction of any place of worship, temple or mosque. Muslims could apply this verse to the Hindu argument that a temple pre-existed at the disputed site.

Muslims could also draw on Surah Al-Kafiroon (The Disbelievers, Atheists): “Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.” (Translation by Pickthall, cited by Centre for Muslim-Jewish Engagement, University of Southern California).

Maulana Abulala Maududi, the founder of Jamaati-e-Islami, had made a similar prescient speech. Addressing the general assembly of the Jamaat in Madras on April 25, 1947, he said: “Persisting in old attitudes would be harmful because the efforts of the Muslims to preserve their rights will only help intensify the communal prejudice of the Hindus more strongly. Hence, we should try to create, on a large scale, public opinion among Muslims that they should as a community have nothing to do with the government and its administration (Pakistan) and should assure Hindu nationalism by their attitude that there is no competing Muslim nationalism. This is the only way to remove the extraordinary prejudice the non-Muslim majority has against Islam.”

Sometime ago, I bumped into lawyer-politician Subramanian Swamy at Deoband’s government guesthouse. Swamy, a Ram temple advocate, was there to attend a yagna organised by an RSS-backed ashram, just yards away from the famous Islamic seminary Darul Uloom.

We got talking over tea and we talked the issue of Ram temple. It was a heart-to-heart. At least, that is my lasting impression. Swamy told me a Ram temple was incontrovertible for Hindus and a way had to be found out. He agreed with me that we could not afford to pass the burden of mistrust between the two communities to remote posterity. “If Hindus can convince legally or otherwise that the disputed site is associated with Lord Rama’s birth, then this will automatically negate a mosque. Muslims cannot offer prayers at a place of idol worship after all,” he told me. I agreed.

Reason can overcome a bit of bathos over a downed mosque. We can go build another one elsewhere, better and bigger.

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  • http://------------------------------------------ sanjeev

    Not bad

    [Reply]

    DesiBhageera Reply:

    It’s Time for Hindu Kshatriya Relief to stand up and reclaim our right from these ravan’s
    We have nothing to loose anymore most or all hindu’s are no more in afghanistan it’s becomming time… worldwide Hindu Kshatriya Relief to stand up. I live in europe but i’dd be proude to enounce Hindu Kshatriya Relief

    [Reply]

    vasudev Reply:

    indian muslims are asking for trouble again…a claim placed and won on ayodhya would not only violently lose them ayodhya (whether supreme court order or not) but also lose them all the other mosques in india which are trusted to be built over hindu temples. in fact extremist hindus might be waiting for one such judgement in their disfavour…muslims need to take heed..they plead that giving in now wud jeopardice their chances with the other mosques but giving in now and actually seeming to co=operate with the hindu might actually win them some brownie points…why do muslims go by the dictum of their fundamentalists? no hindu ever listened to hindu fundamentalism but the mussies are changing all that and, in the process, enslaving the hindus as well…

    [Reply]

  • shweta

    dont forget your mosque in mathura is also built on the land where krishna was born…more specificallly…on the land where his house was….would you voluntarily break that mosque too? And surrender the land?

    and btw …the list is endlesss………

    [Reply]

    Denial Reply:

    How many Krishns you have. Were all of them born at the places where mosques are located in India?? If so, you must appreciate the Muslims for making all such places as worship places.

    [Reply]

    Bismillah Reply:

    Please visit Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladseh and see how many thousands of temples – they not unknown or insignificant ones like Babri. They don’t need to decalre anything – those news are NOT published anywhere because they are not Significant countries to the west. The cruelty the other religions (other than Islam) face in those countries are just undescribable.

    I think the most peaceful country on Earth for Muslims is India.

    [Reply]

    Richa Prakash Reply:

    @ Bismillah…very well said! i wish that is true…i wish India is indeed the most peaceful country for any religion in the world..

  • Ashish

    1. Can’t re-write history
    2. Avenging past wrongs will enervate not just this but the next 10 generations; not sensible.
    3. Does not mean we forget history; but, any attempt to use historical wrongs to whip up hysteria is not to be tolerated.
    4. Law and order is, simply, law and order. If someone breaks the law, punish him. What’s so difficult to understand about this?
    5. History tells us terrible wrongs that have been committed in the names of race, religion.. but it also tells us that it is possible to move on and have a reconciled future.
    As examples, look at France and Germany. Or, Germany and pretty much all of Europe! Or Japan and Korea or Japan and virtually all of Asia! Or, England and its “Commonwealth”.

    Trouble with history is that unless you put a good many years between the event and now, you do not have perspective. The paradox is, the surfeit of data, the “eye-witness accounts” and so on, actually work against getting a balanced view.

    Subramaniam Swamy is still interested in keeping the pot boiling. He has nothing better to do? How on earth is someone going to prove or disprove Rama’s birth? They did not keep municipal records then.

    Let me quote my eighty-plus grandmother, devout Hindu, on the topic. This was when the Ram Janambhoomi agitation was at its peak: : “Why does,” she asked me, “Lord Rama need protection?”
    Babri Masjid/ Ram Janambhoomi won BJP an election; it has failed to win them any more since then. It is not an issue any more. The issues are: education, health, nutrition, women’s and children’s rights, bijli-sadak-paani, housing….law and order, security of our borders..

    Let’s move on

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    Ashish,

    While I agree to a lot of issues you mention, I do not see why this issue and issues of development are exclusive of each other. Why would progress in education, health, rights, housing be affected if the ram temple issue is going on?

    Your logic that it is either the ayodhyaya issue or development is inaccurate and very simplistic. We are moving on in other areas, but as Zia has done, let us take this issue head-on, resolve it, while moving on. We all will be all the more better.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Indian,
    I did not say “either Ayodhya or development”; however, I do see the Ayodhya issue a drain of energy. Also, rolling back history is not a practical thing; nor does it, if allowed to gain momentum, ever stop. Ayodhya can lead to Mathura, to Varanasi to Somnath to…. let’s say full-stop, once and for all. Thousands of Hindu temples have been desecrated through the ages; we can’t avenge them all, nor should we try.
    And, if you are going to roll back history, why only worry about Mandirs and Masjids?

    Much more “live” issues clamour for our attention; the migration of Kashmiri Hindus from the valley, never to return, for example. Unchecked border crossings changing demographics of border states of Bangladesh, is another issue.
    I think those are more worthy of attention; and I have never been much for symbolism.
    Let me quote Tagore, in translation (translation mine, so I beg the poet’s forgiveness in advance!):

    “The great chariot yatra is on, amidst fanfare
    devotees prostrate on the road in adulation
    -
    Road thinks: I am God
    Chariot thinks: Me!
    The Idol thinks: it is me.

    God smiles”

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    @Ashish,

    I agree that bangladeshi immigration, kashmiri pandits and many such issues are very important and the govt. and public in general must actively engage in solving these issues.

    Also, I am not suggesting “avenging” all the temple desecrations. But if you give this away, you will end up giving away a lot more that are still in the making. – Conversions is one such issue. We will also end up indirectly supportin the marxist agenda on history and secularism, which essentially is completely undesirable. It is not merely about symbolism. The state should also give a message that secularism is meant for all and not to appease a few. So while agree that we cannot be blindly trying to make a 1,000 temples, but building an ayodhya may not be such a bad thing. Also, I am all for an apology for the destruction of the babri structure (despite it being a symbol of oppression, it being dilapidated and unused) aswell as constructing a bew mosque at a location convenient to the muslims as compensation. Atleast they will go and pray there.

    My two cents, though broadly I am with you on your thought process on larger issues.

  • Hemant Kapre

    Zia,

    This issue should be treated as a dead one. The only people who keep it alive as those with a vested interest. These are religious fundamentalists – Hindus as well as Muslims.

    How is keeping this issue alive and discussing it ad nauseum helping to improve the lot of the backward sections of society ? We often say very piously at intellectual fora that the only way to prevent terrorism is to increase the spread of education at all levels – primary, secondary, higher secondary, under graduate and post graduate.

    So my humble request to everyone who has some time to spare and pen blogs is this – stop worrying about this issue whether you are wearing a skull cap or have a saffron tilak. Concentrate your energies on something positive. Else you risk falling in the pit being dug by religious fundamentalists.

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    There are millions of hindus who still support the ram temple issue. Let us not trivialize the issue but brushing it under the carpet in the name of being forward looking. Society should be improved regardless of the issue and your suggestion that by focussing on ayodhyaya we will not help improve backward society is flawed. Infact, if the solution as highlighted by Zia is followed, the muslim-hindu trust deficit will come down drastically, and we will all the more be on our way to progress.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Indian
    Just saw this headline on another HT blog
    http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/hindi-heartland/2009/07/07/rama-temple-a-dead-issue-politically/

    Millions? Hmm..
    Only thing that majority of Indians care about after decades of misrule and identity/ votebank politics are food, security and shelter …

    The Ram Temple exists as an issue with newspapers/ TV to sell copies/ drive TRP up (like Varun Gandhi was a Godsend; everyone and his uncle had an opinion).

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    @Ashish,

    Thanks but sorry, you are off the point. The article is trying to say that it is not a “political” issue any more. Not sure if it is correct but so What? This is no argument.

    Perhaps you will also favour giving away J&K to pakistan. Afterall, it may not affect politics in other parts of India? Today, there is a lot of unrest in Kashmir, but do all the poor in the rest of the country either know or do something about it? Perhaps, people in rest of India care for food, security and shelter? no? So what if J&K is an integral part of India? Ram is perhaps an integral part of many hindu’s heart, mind and faith? or no?

    It is fashionable to say that we should move on that the world has moved on, that everyone wants food, water and shetler. Fact is that the need of food, shelter and water have been there for ages and will remain for ages, but fact is that so has Ram. Such arguments belittle sentiments and kind of show a lack of pride and self respect in one’s country, religion, culture, etc.. I believe that what is right is right and what is fair is fair. We should not have any compunctions agreeing to it and doing something about it. Period. Also, please do not confuse issues – this is not about a varun gandhi and is NOT a similar issue.

    Again – Ram temple is not at the expense of food, shetler and security. Please do not keep making that argument, again and again.

  • Indian

    Zia, Good article and appreciate the candure and openness in your thought process.

    I think that a temple should be built at the disputed site. It is a matter of faith and sentiment for the hindus. It is extremely important for a large section hindus and not so important for the muslims because a)it is no mecca, b)nobody anyways offered their prayers there for decades c) it was a symbol of barbarianism.

    That said, a grand mosque should be built as compensation at any other site of the choosing of the muslims. Also, an apology should be given to the muslims for the demolition of the mosque. Doesnt matter if the mosque was dilapitated and unused, nobody has any business just going and demolishing a place of worship. So an apology is mandatory and it should not be relegated to the back pages of some obscure newspaper but a public apology.

    I think this solution is the best solution. My two cents.

    [Reply]

    Indian Muslim Reply:

    Dear Indian,

    How easily are u enforcing your ideas on others. I just have one question. what stands here today? A mosque or a Temple? which will be more painful, demolish a standing structure (a mosque in this case) and building another structure or just build another structure (a temple)close by.

    if the exact opposite has been suggested what will your feeling be?

    My two cents

    [Reply]

    Muslim Reply:

    being a muslim … i can agree with this … if hindus agree that what happened in 1992 was wrong and apologize for it … provide an alternate place to build mosque then i think that is agreeable.

    it is time to move on and ppl from both communities should help each other in building for each other their respective places of worship.

    It is very important to acknowledge that what happened in 1992 was a mistake and pledge that such incident doesn’t happen in future

    [Reply]

    vasudev Reply:

    better would be to legalise and popularise indian hindu muslim weddings. i was surprised to see many such families in kerala. both practice their own religion and lead peaceful lives. of course so far such inter-religious marriages have been happening amongst the educated folks and communist party folks only but i would like this to be the trend.

    [Reply]

  • rakesh

    No attention required to places of worship being destroyed currently in kashmir?

    Probably not,because destroying temples is not a serious matter,and as a religion hinduism is being wiped out systemeticaly any way from the world country after country.

    Yes Hemant,this is useless issue,because today’s society is too bothered on worldly matters that it doesnt feel the need to protect its values.

    Whenever i participate in such discussions,i shudder to think where this will lead us.Increasing assertiveness by muslims and increasing docile hindu population.

    It will be real sad to see a school of thought disappearing that tolerates and respects others’ viewpoints.Hinduism i mean.

    [Reply]

  • vikram

    I think there just is too much religion in our lives. Lets make that into a sports field and discover our Ram our Rahim through some strong blood coursing through our veins. Let the children mingle and play and let them decide when they grow up whether this is all worth it. Maybe we r too steeped in this age old tiff to resolve anything. hopefully the next generation is wiser

    [Reply]

  • ac

    hi Zia,
    I would like to add here that some time in the future we will definitely try to return to our roots and development and other things should also take place side by side ,but then we cannot forget the importance of such places because of development ,otherwise our next generations will abuse us that we kept a pacifist attitude and did nothing.Because in this mad rush of development we would have lost all such places .

    I know how we all like to abuse Mr. Nehru for their mistakes in KAshmir ,same way our next generations will bad mouth us,development and faith can run together ;see israel ,only fools think that for carrying development we need to forget about such important religious places .Like it or not
    we are attached to our religions and we need to do something to give something back other than
    doing puja and offer namaz etc at home .

    Sometimes it is important to take a stand and not just by convienience of secularism hide our lazy and I-DONT-CARE attitudes ;we are what we r in this country because of this kind hearted and tolerant religion called Hinduism …….some may find it a bitter pill ,but ill suggest them to just swallow it ..and move on.
    It has been historically proven that Islam believed and still believes in uprooting and destroying places of worship of other faiths ,forced conversion is a norm ,so whats the big deal in accepting that the Mogul ruler Babur had destroyed a temple and built a mosque in its place ;it is such a common thing in islamic history that I really feel like laughing on those people who says that it was just a mosque.
    Do hindus say that for every mosque that it has been built on the forced demolision of a temple?
    There is no smoke without fire ..and anyway I really dont think that the muslims are doing any favour by saying that please build a temple .If the vote bank politics was not there ;then there would have been a temple already since long long back .

    [Reply]

  • Amit Julka

    don’t you think a hospital/school will please Lord Rama more than a temple?

    [Reply]

    sanjeev Reply:

    @Amit julka

    You are trying to become a secular and liberal. Do you know this attitude will one day convert india into SAUDI INDIA.

    Islam is a menace which needs to be fought head on. Our ancestors were like you…very liberal and tolerant. So what we got 40 percent of our people got converted by force to a cult of violence. This cult is still haunting us in the form of terrorism. Result we have three nations on our land. And more pathetic some of them glorify the plunderers, rapists and murders who invaded India (Babur being one of them).

    read M.A. KHAN :Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery

    http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/ma-khan-islamic-jihad-a-legacy-of-forced-conversion-imperialism-and-slavery/

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/06/21/have-a-big-mak-a-review-of-m-a-khan%E2%80%99s-book-islamic-jihad-a-legacy-of-forced-conversion-imperialism-and-slavery/

    Secularism applies only to religions and this is a cult

    [Reply]

    Amit Julka Reply:

    Wow!You got me convinced!…I hope you are familiar with sarcasm….

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    Amit,

    A hospital and a school are indeed important. Does it have to be an “either” a hospital “or” a temple? Can’t one temple be made along with hundred’s of hospitals which are indeed required in this country? Is it that once a temple is made, no hospital can be made? Since the temple is not being made currently, are we seeing a mushrooming of hospitals? Do we really have to trivialize this issue? Nobody is saying that food, security, shelter and other things are not required in this country. But humans and people of this country are not uni-dimensional. Faith is an integral part. There are many priorities before the country and one temple will not affect it anyways. Infact, resolving this issue but making a temple there, by making a grand mosque at a place of choice of muslims and giving an apology for the demolition of the mosque will rest the case and all can be happy ever after. Zia in this article is perhaps suggesting something of that kind.

  • vijay kumar

    Dear Zia,

    I reaaly want to understand one thing and want your honest reply….

    Why are Muslims at loggerheads with all the other religions and people of the world. Now it is happening in China. Remember China is a non religious country which is grossly friendly to Pakistan. ( and there is no george bush, isreal or Narendra modi there)

    But if you really look around, …. Pakistan, Afghanistan, indonasia, Philippines, Lanka, Bangladesh, African continent, UK, France, Germany… USA … Canada…

    Now all other people cannot be wrong. Why is there a confrontation between Muslims and locals, whewrever the Muslim population goes beyond 2-3% ? Maybe there is some reason in how Islam is practised today. Or is it because Muslim men are willing to go out with girls of ther religions, yet not allwing their own women to mix around?

    Or because the Saudi based clerics are forcing the Muslims to assert themselves through religion and in fact promoting fanatiscism so that Muslims in various countries do not look forward to democracy but are rather more interested in Jehad?

    Dear Zia, since I believe Muslims are as good as any other human being and there is an unfortunate schism today , why don’t we confront the fact that there could be a lot wrong in rigid intrepretation of religion and harsh laws which limit you thinking and action and powers of assimilating other cultures.

    So please give me a reply, as I sincerely believe that you are trying to look at things afresh…

    [Reply]

    Zia Haq Reply:

    @vijay kumar

    I hope I had all the answers. I don’t. Since I feel you don’t view me as another Muslim with a mask, I shall try to hold fort on what I think is part of the problem.

    a) Saudis do have a role in promoting a particular brand of Islam, a specific grain of Islamic ideology. And trust me, this ideology is not apparently about killing people. It’s never so black and white. But Wahabism, speaking at a very non-theorised, mosque level understanding, (given that I am frequently exposed to Wahabi preachers as a practising Muslim) seeks to eliminate some “corrupt” (please note the quote marks) practices in day to day rituals. For example, how to bend and rise during namaaz, etc. Now, along side, preachers try to feed other mosque-goers with hightened religiosity and religious assertion. Most Muslims (a very important point) run away from them. Because they go on and on and are often looked upon as irritants, you know what I mean. Many Muslim preachers try to add their own two penny bits: how there is danger to Islam etc, etc. This makes it very counter-productive. Now this is as I said part of the problem and one of the factors aiding radicalisation. It is not enough on its own to make a terrorist out of muslim. Other factors must contribute: arms and aid by US, ISI??

    2) China is a different ball game. People are still studying the problem. Because these are chinese Muslims, there is a natural tendency to link to overall crisis among Muslims. Completely wrong. Uighurs (Chinese Muslims) Muslims by coincident. Their clash is completely ethnic. It’s a bit like Naga and Kuki clashes in the Northeast. The factors leading to the unrest in Xinjiang are thoroughly local. Han chinese are looked upon as favoured by the administration. Muslims as you know want freedom of religion. That’s not freely applicable in China. Moreover, Xinjiang is oil rich. There are tax and royalty issues. They say investments are not being ploughed back to them but rather used to build super cities like Shanghai. So, I am not willing to jump the gun and say Xinjiang has Muslim, and therefore problems. But it is amazing that in a tightly controled place like China, protest has been so fierce and public. The last of this we saw during Tiananmen Sq tragedy in 89.

    Uighur Muslim Chinese have expats. Their association in US is lending crucial support and trying to mould US public opinion. So, US may just be amenable to all this protests by Uighurs. So, China is a different story, I think.

    [Reply]

  • amy

    From a political perspective, the contemporary world is to be viewed in terms of identity assertion after socio economic needs are met , recognition is sought and a cultural war against homogenisation in the form of globalization and assimilation .People just want to be themselves the ultimate peak of individualism but no man is an island and needs to relate to others and broadly race, ethnicity, religion are taking over citizenship esp when sovereignity is loosening up with many players like multinationals.There is a major change going on ,new equations ,new players and so the turmoil.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    Even if one proves that a Ram temple indeed existed there 500 years back, it does not mean that one can build a Ram temple there. I mean, the constitution of India came into fore from the last century, and whatever happened before that is just part of our history and not to be undone. It would be like the Taliban destroying the Bamiyan Buddha statues.

    What happened in Ayodhya has little to do with hindus and muslims and is more a law and order problem. The people who did it must be punished. If a mosque can not be rebuilt for fear of manufactured riots by the Sangh Parivar hooligans, then at least a temple should not be built there. If it is, then it would be really shameful.

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    It is surprising to see that you compare bamiyan statues with babri mosque. babri structure was made specifically be destroying a temple, it was a specifically made as a symbol of conquest of islam of idol worshippers and hindus, after killing, raping and looting innoncent people. Analogies are very useful while proving a point, however the analogies have to be carefully chosen. Second, the babri structure was dilapidated and no muslim offered prayers there for decades. It was an unused, abandoned structure. However, the hindus have been continuousing offering prayers there. Third, there is an offer to make a grand mosque anywhere of the choosing of the muslims, while a ram temple be built at the disputed site. For the sake of secularism, is that too difficult to accept?

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar, please read the following post by Sadia Dehlvi (there is a lot on Wahabism)

    http://indianmuslims.in/the-threat-of-political-islam/

    @Indian
    For the last time, no. Ram temple in Ayodhya does not matter to me and to most Hindus.
    How many Ram temples have you seen?

    I find identity politics of every kind abhorrent; whether asking for minority institutions or a temple whose claim to be standing on Ram’s (a mythological figure) birthplace is tenuous ..

    Sentiments?
    When Rammohan Roy worked to abolish Sati, I daresay most Hindus were against it. Should it have been done or not? Irrespective of sentiment or religious sanction? When Vidyasagar worked tirelessly for widow-remarriage braving threats to personal safety, the “prevailing sentiments” were definitely against him. When Dayanand Saraswati,… I can go on.
    I am a very proud Hindu and Indian, but unlike you, I take pride in such men … not in vandals and clueless politicians who only whip up cheap sentiments to get votes.

    The Delhi HC has legalised gay sex, between consenting adults. The headline in today’s HT had me rolling on the floor in laughter.
    “Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Isai.. unite against bhai-bhai”
    You are probably asking the question, whether religions sanction gay sex or indeed, what is the prevailing majority sentiment. My point is, how on earth does that matter? In a democracy, in a secular democracy as Zia never tires of pointing out, it is disingenuous to be not guided by our constitution and rule of law and by what some Mullah or Pandit says.

    We have enough temples and enough mosques (the point being made my Amit Julka and Vikram) but not enough schools, hospitals .. we also have a system of law and jurisprudence, with unfortunately not enough compliance. I
    Now, how did Kashmir enter this? Read my previous response asking you to focus on Kashmiri pandits’ forced migration out of the valley to understand where I stand on Kashmir.
    Misguided secularism and blind identity politics are ensuring that we are increasingly living inside our own “walled gardens”. As the old time ditty went, “For the Colonel’s lady and Judy O’Grady are sisters under the skin”; both you and Zia are arguing for the same thing; stronger religious identities whereas, the need is to strengthen our Indian identities.
    Keep whistling in the wind.

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    @Ashish,

    I think you are being presumptious about my thinking. Did I say, that Rammohan roy, or dayanand saraswati or even gandhi or anyone was not worth appreciating? When did I appreciate the vandals who broke down the mosque? where did you get that impresssion? I am all for putting those jokers behing bars. Period. That said, I am also for the ram temple, a grand mosque at an other place and a public apology to the muslims for the wrong doing of the vandals / jokers who broke the masjid. It will also solve the issue of identity politics for ever atleast wrt to babri structure. You also need to observe who plays how much identity politics and who gets the maximum mileage. It will perhaps make you understand, why I think the identity politics will end and not get strengthened. I have seen your article on hindus of kashmir and I agree with your point on that, but I was on an other. My point was regarding the conflict between, pak, india and the issue with separatists? Your logic on other issues if extended then perhaps you would even want to give away J&K (jurisprudence?)
    .
    Now how does my positiioning make me a lesser hindu or a muslim hater? I have observed your writing in this and other blogs and tend to agree to most of what you write and believe that our thoughts match on many including our position on hindus vs muslim debate. You are accusing me of having blind identity politics and misguided secularism…..I perhaps feel that your position is of misguided secularism but only on the point of the temple.

    The case of delhi HC judgement, I agree with you that gays should not be criminalized. But the point of individual freedom can be further extended. Two consulting adults can indulge in incest, some can indulge in beastiliality…how can one argue that it is wrong? would these also not constitute fundamental rights…likewise, who is anyone to decide what should be the age of an adult, 18 or 16? How does one come to that conclusion? Why should it be anyone’s business that someone in the privacy of their homes take drugs, or when willingly people indulge in prostitution? Why should poligamy be not allowed of all parties are ok with it? I do not have a position on these, but wonder what your position would be and in this context of jurisprudence?

    In conclusion – making a temple (per the solution highlighted by me) is not anti-muslim, it will help end the hindu-mulsim identity politics, the trust deficit between the communities will reduce. Either ways, the govt. should make more hospitals, schools, roads, what have you. I am all for removing identity politics of all kinds – religion, caste, etc and for removing the the distorted versions of secularism, while at the same time being fair and honest.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Indian:
    your last para first.
    No it is not (not anti-muslim; but, really I don’t look at the world thru anti-Hindu / anti-Muslim prism)
    no it will not, no it will not, no it will not.

    2nd last para:
    Honestly, I have till date, never thought about having sex with animals or indeed known of anyone with such tendencies :-) It would be difficult to find a “consenting adult partner”, don’t you think? ;-)
    The delhi HC just decriminalized homo-sexuality between consenting adults; why are you bringing in so may other things?
    Let’s talk about these when we have a forum devoted to article 377. My comment was only in th context of showing that how social reform need not always wait the acquiescence of the majority and sometimes the court or sometimes the government of the day has to take a position more consistent with the ideals of a just and free society.

    Now for the first para:
    Apology? By whom? Is an apology enough?
    You know what? Ideally, in any civilized society the perpetrators would not get away by an apology.
    Ram Temple/ Grand mosque? Why? For whom? Who will pay for it? If you are thinking of dipping into my hard-earned tax-payer’s money, I tell you, man… hell hath no fury like a man who’s pocket is picked :-)
    I am still not unable to understand your J&K angle or indeed how my logic will extend to giving away J&K to Pakistan..
    Too sleepy.. been working my butt off; must remember to limit myself to a maximum of one comment per blog next time :-)
    Cheers

    Indian Reply:

    @Ashish,

    Perhaps we should give this thread a break and take it up at a later stage!!!

    Just two short points – the mandir committee will build the temple and mosque and not through the tax payers money. They had offered something of that kind earler.
    Article – 377. It is about extension of the argument, consistent with words such as “personal freedom”, “individual rights”, “consulting adults” etc. That is all that I was alluding too.

    Cheers!

  • Bobby

    @Indian, I am not comparing Bamiyan statues to Babri mosque, and of course there is a difference in the two cases, however the point still remains that in both cases people tried to undo the past. So to that extent its similar.

    @sanjeev, In my opinion, whether Babar destroyed a temple or not is a historical question, and we should not be in the buisness of undoing history. Victoria memorial in Kolkata, was built in the memory of the imperial ruler of India, do u suggest that we should destroy that too? There are historical cases of temples being destroyed by hindu rulers as well…what do you have to say about that?

    [Reply]

  • Akash Tiwary

    Sir, I admire your position, but don’t agree with it. You too are falling into the same illogical pit. Like many others, you also feel Hindi-Muslim bhai-bhai and goody-goody solutions would solve the Hindu-Muslim divide, or any divide between two religions. Wrong! The only solution is to reject the very idea of religion and religious pedagogy completely. You are an educated Indian, like many of us. It has made you very kind-hearted. So much so that you have started seeing some good things, some good points and some good people in other religions too. But, I am sorry, all your education has not given you the common-sense to conclude that THERE IS NO GOD and that religion, all religions including the one I was born into, was and is only a primitive logic and primitive solution to some primitive problems found by some primitive men.
    If you are really educated, if you are really courageous, if you are really writer-like, then pls. start writing about this simple fact, which you can infer with the logic used by a 12-year-old child. Come on, why can’t you conclude the obvious- that All Gods are human inventions. That there is no evidence that there ever was or is any God. That there is no need to placate that god by praying.
    All your good intentions will mean nothing until you reject your own religion first, and then also reject my religion and then every other religion that believes in presence of an all-pervasive, omnipotent, all-knowing Supreme Power.

    Why be a writer when every line that you write is based on il-logic?

    But, then you are free not to listen to me.

    Good luck!

    [Reply]

    Bobby Reply:

    Dear Akash,

    I completely agree with what you say about the non-existance of any supernatural power, but I do not think this fact has anything to do with the issue being discussed. The fact is many on both sides of the divide may indeed be atheists, but for them this is a issue of identity. This may sound illogical but unfortunately is the fact.

    For them, its more like “the nonsense that our ancestors created and believed is better than the nonsense that your forefathers created and we should defend it simply because its OUR NONSENSE” .

    [Reply]

    amy Reply:

    Plz stop misusing the term identity politics in the way u all have understood. Any group can assert its identity through its distinctiveness and discrimination so even dalits or gays can use the term for their empowerment. Such a claim does not close the doors to cooperation between groups because it would harden indentity and lead to its self destruction.What should be discussed are the limits of tolerance and from the consensus of this post there is a fair chance of each community agreeing to a common ground. That is the aim of indentity politics , to build cooperation and reduce discrimination both cultural and socio-economic.The present government is all for inclusive development and growth lets give our support to achievening harmony and peaceful coexistence for discrimination is painful and not the end of any system. Let us align ourselves to meet the global challenges and put our house in order first.

    [Reply]

  • amy

    oh yes, besides Subramanium Sawamy, try to meet Advocate General(India)Mr.Gopal and Rajiv Dhavan for law is a game of words . Also refer to Irfan Habib’s historical fact finding about the site which appeared in several big dailies and magazines at the time.Sadia Dehlvi article on Wahabism is nothing new to the Muslims, its just one of the various thought available, what’s important is who chooses it and why practise it.Such an opportunity should not be offered althouh its export is difficult esp at the mature age and development of Indian nation state and most important its consititution provisions.So rest assured sleep well!

    [Reply]

    ritu Reply:

    why cant we just build a hospital or a school or a hotel or a movie hall :) there so that everybody is happy

    why the hell should mine and our future generation pay for what some dimwit politicians did to prove their superiority.

    [Reply]

    Dilip Reply:

    Why don’t we build a hospital or a school or a hotel or a movie hall in place of your own house instead? :) ) Why should we pay with Lord Ram’s place of residence for our own entertainment? ;)

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    “But why copying a primitive and alien ideology that developed in a tribe of desert (that has never been among centre for development of major civilizations).”

    well clearly you have no clue of history.

    “Does a Budhist in China, Japan, South Korea,Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia need to learn the PALI language to assert his budhist identity ?

    Answer is simply No”

    well the answer is not so simple. Buddhists from all these countries definetely consider Buddha’s birth place and several associated sites in India as holy places and keep coming here to visit them.

    “No other civilized religion impose the restriction which it does.”

    I can name another “civilized religion” which imposes far greater restrictions than Islam does, and as a clue….you do not have to look outside India to find it.

    “I have never seen any Hindu in saffron….”
    well clearly you have either not looked enough or your eyes are as biased as your views. I have seen Phd students in Maths and computer science wear
    huge tilaks on their foreheads while inside the campus and learned and educated hindus, believe in astrology as well as give specific caste based marriage advertisements.

    “I strongly feel that their is something seriously wrong with the brain of people who do all these things during student life at the level of post graduation or research ?”

    here I tend to agree with you.

    However I think you are completely mistaken in thinking that only muslims assert their identity openly. I think you see what you want to see, and everything else your mind simply rejects.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    “You seem to have visited some university of Bihar or UP in some small towns. I am talking of delhi. where only muslims do and others don’t.”

    well firstly my experiences are in Chennai, but never mind. From your above statement , its clear that either you do not consider people of Bihar or UP to be Hindus or your theory of only muslims assert their identities is wrong.

    “astrology has nothing to do here.”

    It is very relevant to the discussion. If educated people believe in humbugs like astrology, then they are not any more enlightened than people who believe in “books written in the 7th century.” You conveniently pick and choose points which suit you and the rest are put under the carpet.

    ” but you forgot lot of inter caste marriages……” well “lot” is a subjective word, I definitely do not think “lots” are happening, and if they are then so are inter religious ones involving muslims as well.

    [Reply]

    ram Reply:

    Dear Zia,

    A very well crafted and thoughtful column. Congratulations for your enlightening and honest insights. If majority of Indians will work along these lines then only can all Indians lead prosperous and peaceful lives to confront challenges both internally and externally.

    Please keep up the good work!

    Regards

    Ram

    [Reply]

    Dilip Reply:

    Bobby,

    From your posts it seems like you are not only an atheist, but also full of yourself. You seem to be utterly arrogant and intolerant of other people’s beliefs and views – it reflects in your language.

    You are commenting with a mob mentality, without quietly putting any thought into the points others are making.

    [Reply]

  • http://------------------------------------------ sanjeev

    @Bobby

    Do some literature survey and you will definitely find stratification just like caste among Indian muslims also. BTW shia-sunni conflicts in pakistan, Iraq are much worse than caste conflicts in India. I know ahmadia’s were declared non-muslims by pakistani legislative assembly in 1974

    Stratification is found in western societies also. So don’t blame it on one particular community. Look within your house first.

    BTW if you will qoute some verse of the hatred preaching manual, then let me tell you none of vedas, upanisadas and ramayana-mahabharata mentions caste system. they only mentions ‘ varnasharma’. For your information varnashrama prescribed four categories of people depending upon role that they perform in society. and it never mentions it to be hereditary.

    Yes this initial division of labour , over time got corrupted into caste system but religion has nothing to do here. Its a social problem rather than a religious. I hope you know clear difference between social and religious ? Just like female genital mutilation is a social problem of some muslim african countries and not relIgious.

    BTW caste system doesn’t prescribe beheading, just some faith prescribe for infidels.

    And yes see the link for functions of foreskin

    http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/intact/foreskin.html

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    “BTW if you will qoute some verse of the hatred preaching manual, then let me tell you none of vedas, upanisadas and ramayana-mahabharata mentions caste system. they only mentions ‘ varnasharma’. For your information varnashrama prescribed four categories of people depending upon role that they perform in society. and it never mentions it to be hereditary”

    I am so used to these kind of bull shit arguments, from so many of our kind that i dont want to respond to such **** anymore. Hinduism is what is practised. and caste system has been practised in india for thousands of years.

    According to Hinduism, shudras came out of the foot of God and the holy brahmins from the head…..so even God sees them differently it seems….So much for the scriptures.

    Its not just “stratification”… the only system in any other part of the world that comes to mind is slavery or apartheid.

    “Astrology is a superstition which is prevalent in all societies. It cut across religions. It is present every where. Superstition is prevalent in all religions. So don’t attach superstitions to only one religion”

    That just means, that Hindus are as stupid as people of other faith. So clearly “enlightenment” or lack of it is not restricted to one community..which is my point.

    “BTW circumcision also doesn’t stand against biological grounds. do some research regarding functions of foreskin….”

    No thanks, I have better things to do. You may be obsessed with Islam and Judaism, but I am not.

    [Reply]

  • Bobby

    “go and get some good education….”

    yeah, like you got in your “Sangh Parivar School of brainwashing”.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.bbc.com Mohammed

    Prophet Muhammad asked Muslims to respect any religion in which the word of God is mentioned, many phrases in Rig Veda, Bhagvat Gita and Upanishads contain the concept and truth about formless, Omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent Almighty (Allah) God. Islam is a Monotheistic religion so is Gyanshriya shaka of Hinduism
    Prophet Muhammad asked Muslims to go India for gaining worldly knowledge from Hindus and spread Islam to them peacefully.
    Islam and India are undivided and true Hinduism is against Idol worship and similar to Islam

    [Reply]

    A Banerjee Reply:

    True Hinduism is not against or for idol worship. true Hinduism is allowing people to pray to their deity in the manner they want.

    [Reply]

  • bansi gopal kanjilal

    the problem with secularists communists and liberals is that for them secularism means defamation of hinduism and if you can cry down hinduism from roof top you become an exponent of secular faith. ask the flag bearers of secularism if any temple can be built at kaba mecca or near vatican church. for hindus shri Ram shri Krishna and Mahadev are three cukt figures and it is intolerable for any hindu to see a mosque standing at those places. these mosques were deliberately constructed at those three holy places to hit the hindus hard

    [Reply]

  • Amit

    S. Swamy is a loon. I am surprised as to how much importance his so-called theories command in the intellectual class of our country. It is more a sad commentary on the state of our thinking than anything else.

    [Reply]

    Kalyana Krishnan Reply:

    Then how come he lectures in Harvard ? I find his points (YOu tube ones) quite sensible.
    Never has he said in any of his speeches to antagonize anyone but it is always to defend the Hindu identity. What is wrong with that ?

    [Reply]

  • manish

    @Bobby:

    “Hinduism is what is practised. and caste system has been practised in india for thousands of years. ”

    Is it only for Hinduism or also true of others? If it is, then Zia is fighting a losing battle. No one in the world kills more people FOR religion than Muslims.

    There is a difference between a person who is a Christian (like say Hitler/Mussolini) killing.. and a Muslim killing BECAUSE he is Muslim and other is not.

    In fact, the truth is that the concept of “Kafir” is the most pathetic in the history of religion.

    Caste System: @bobby – where in Vedas and Upanishads have you read that twisted stuff on Caste System.. can you cite the verses?

    Its like saying witch burning was sanctioned by Bible.

    [Reply]

  • Mitra

    I have no doubt that Zia is a VERY well meaning person- however, this is a highly misguided argument. A mosque was torn down by Hindu fanatics and it should be rebuilt on the same site. This is necessary not just for assuaging Muslim feelings- but for securalism and justice. Backtrack from this, and the VHP/RSS brigade will immediately start talking about Mathura/Varanasi etc. Hindu religious sentiments should be a private religious matter for Hindus, it should not be the basis for Government of India’s policy.

    [Reply]

    Anil Reply:

    I occupy your house by force sometime later you get enought force to take ti back.. Woudl I be justified to invoke court claiming what you have done is illegal..

    [Reply]

  • Anil

    Simple Question: If tomorrow USA appropriates mosque in Meccah as church you as a muslim woudl say letbyygines be bygones or woudl fight for the reversal of the occupation..

    Another question: In 1990, two years before ayodhya episode, in Kashmir valley small and big total 600 odd temples were destroyed how much cerebral space have you accorded to that issue.

    [Reply]

  • Anil

    Yaar goign by the acounts of court writers of muslim rulers themselves 100 thousand s fo temples were morphed into mosque. All hindus are asking is to undo one of the wrongs done out fo hundreads of thousand and still you get lecture about tolerance from the people who did this collosus crimes of razing temples in first place. Foreget past in thsi day and age 600 odd temples were destrpyed in kashmri valley.. Visit the valley you will be hard pressed to find any temples there.. Muslims didn;t throw just pundits they made sure any vestige of hindu identitiy too gets wiped out.. Are we chest-beating… Muslims wail loudest even where someone is just undoing the wrong done by them in first place.
    It’s detailed in court writigns of Aurangjeb how he razed a temple to erect gyanwapi mosque in Varansi are we chest-beating..

    come out of this tamasha of we will do whatever we want but others must not repeat that on us..

    THis same attitude is on display when muslim wail about hwo they were driven out fo Spain.. Ask yourself how did you go into spian in first place. A bllod thirsty army lands on rock fo Gibraltor burns its boat and asks its soldiers to either kill or get killed.. Why cry when someone does to you what you did to them in first place.

    I knwo one can;t go around undoign all the historical wrongs but the audacity of justiyfing the wailing makes me sick….

    [Reply]

  • Atul Barry

    @Zia: I am appalled that you said what you did; you are a very bad Muslim indeed. Here’s what I think should happen to India.

    1. Hinduism should be declared a national religion. Only one religion should be allowed to be practiced, like in Saudi Arabia where you cannot practice any other.

    2. In Pakistan, you have to be a Muslim to become President. In India itshould be reserved to the upper three castes to hold any political office. Bye Bye Mayawati, Sonia and MMS.

    3. Article 370 should be scrapped and all courts will follow the Hindu code.

    4. Pakistan should be invaded and the rest of Kashmir taken back, along with Lahore.

    5. China should be invaded and Askai Chin and other land grabbed by them in 1962 be taken back.

    6. The loudspeakers will be installed in all temples and Aarti be chanted every morning at 4:00 am.

    7. Everyone will have to wear a tilak on their forehead at all times of the day.

    8. The flag of India will be changed; it will be saffron with a lotus instead of the Ashoka Charkra, which is a Buddhist symbol.

    9. The national anthem will be Vande Matram.

    10. There will be only one national language: Sanskrit. Anyone found using any other, including English, will be sanctioned. Sorry, IT and BPO industry.

    11. All teachers will be Brahmins, the Armed Forces will consist of Khastrias and all business run by Banias (Sorry Tata).

    12. All currency notes and coins and all stamps will have portraits of Ram, Krishna and other Hindu gods. With 33,000 to choose from, you’d never run out of variety.

    13. Sati will be re-introduced and widow remarriage banned. Western clothes will be banned and all men will wear a dhoti. ANd don’t forget the tilak.

    Jai Ho!

    For all the morons, I’m being sarcastic.

    [Reply]

  • Surjeet

    There is an issue here; big, small, wise or not so wise.
    If we want goodness or God, pride has no place in it. Win or lose and feeling elated or distorted as a result is not the point.

    Giving is a virtue which always increases your wealth as the joy you get is priceless. giving is next to Godliness.

    We need to llive in the present. If there is a temple on a site today and let us all get together and build one joining hands.

    In India even in Varanasi Vishvanath Temple and a big mosque stand side by side.
    We must understand this is India, come what may.
    False sense of pride or loss has no place here

    [Reply]

  • praful

    unfortunately, the islamic/mughal emperors made sure that they had to get feathers in their cap regarding hindu conquest. in that respect, they used the bricks that were part of temple to build part of the mosque to show their conquest. in general, islamic scholars are good record keepers. what would they know that their excellent book keeping will haunt islam generations from the mughal period.

    [Reply]

  • AntiBarry

    The writer is entitled to his personal views, of course.

    @Atul Barry (3rd comment above) : I don’t think I’m a moron (correct me if I am wrong!) but you are not being sarcastic, sarcasm is not the word.

    India is one of the top countries of the world which goes out to protect religions which are touchy. This report is a copy of notice sent from Mumbai Police to an American USA citizen for publishing cartoons on touchy topics: http://www.chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi?NoticeID=26127

    So should India protect Ram temples and other touchy topics ? It depends on who is more touchy. The more touchy you are, the more protection you get.

    It is not based on facts. That may be in a court room. I also read a lot of evidence about the Ram temple here:
    http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/12/06/ram-janmabhoomi-3/

    The evidence looks well researched. But the important fact is, the response from India which is a traditional political culture is rooted in Congressism (all parties are basically Congressist) is not based on facts. It will always be based on touchiness and who makes the loudest clamour. That’s why India will remain doomed and all parties have to practise Congressism to survive.

    My 2 paise. Jai HoHoHo !

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    atul barry if we had more hindus like u in india then hindusthan would have been purely hindusthan like pakisthan is….

    [Reply]

  • AntiBarry

    @sanjay comment (on foreskin matters). You may conclude that since the mentioned part was provided by nature it has a function to perform, and it is possibly so. But do not forget that those who cut it off have a right over their own body. So you cannot fault them as it does not harm anybody else. If anybody has a reason to complain, it is the womenfolk of those who cut it off. I would say it is purely an internal matter, worthy of being excised from this discussion; certainly not worthy of being brought to the table.

    If at all such acts terrify children, then it can be a matter of public interest. The recent case of some villagers dropping their babies on to a blanket from a height of 9m is said to have terrified the babies. The media did pick it up and write stories. However, it would be far-fetched to imagine that media would try to sensationalize the cutting off of a piece of unwanted skin as a part of growing up. I would then exhort “grow up!” loudly to one and all listening !

    [Reply]

  • Rahmath

    Cant they just clear up the whole place and make it a memorial.If the mughals destroyed a temple for a mosque…well they should not have but that is past. But if a temple is built on top of it now it will again fuel unnecessary divisions. I am a muslim and i have seen pictures of hindu groups burning Qurans.I know it would bother some but it did not bother me.God or God’s words are not subject to such physical destruction.If God doesn’t mind it , doesn’t it mean we should not too.Believe me I am sure Ram doesn’t need a temple just as Rahim does not need a mosque.The mughals brought the temple down and now the mosque has been destroyed.Has it not been *** for tat.Why cant that place be converted to a memorial…A reminder…. for peace and mutual respect.

    [Reply]

  • Manik Prabhu

    Hinduism is nothing but “spiritual fascism”. It divides man against man. Segregates him., grades him., as if he were a commodity., and practices aparthied. 50 lakh Dalits must gather at Ambedkar Park and accept Christianity or Islam. Only then, can the Dalits find respect and acceptance. Brotherhood is long-term investment compared to Reservations ! (Civilisationally, i.e.). Got it.

    [Reply]

  • http://hindustantimes karuna

    i asked a muslim driver of the auto i was travelling in “will you all (muslims) be happy if all of us give up our lives for you. (that is every hindu).
    he said “madam then we will have shia and sunni issue”
    fight amongst each other is not religoun, property, borders, racist issues etc………..
    only when each human being starts behaving in the same manner like he does when he is in church temple mosque etc… then we call it living

    [Reply]

  • http://hindustantimes karuna

    i always wondered why when muslims asked for a pure land (meaning of pakisthan ) they still want to share again from us. why in kashmir muslims fleeing and coming to jammu for safety and not going to pakisthan? why there is fight only when a muslim is involved in majority fights? is living only for religion or religoun a part of our lives.

    [Reply]

  • ANAND

    dear atul barry
    it is easy to be sarcastic and yes it derives immence joy in the heart from where it erupts. but the sad thing is that while your forefathers in undivided punjab were busy being sarcastic their asses were skinned their women folk raped and thrown out of their place of origin by the same mindset which argues over an unused structure in the name of law of the nation. so keep on being sarcstic and believe me one day your son will face the or worse treatment that your forefathers met before partition. so much for your sarcsam, and yes remove all upper caste hindus from defence and police force and see this happen sooner than you can concieve.

    [Reply]

  • Rational Thinker

    I have never seen a Muslim ever criticize his religion. Even the Jews, facing annihilation from the Muslims, are less united. Muslims will go on and on defending their horrible deeds by pointing out problems with other religions.

    [Reply]

  • http://markazulmaarif.org md abdulla

    thi verse qouted here does not support the claim. I m giving the original explanation from the book of tafseer Maariful Quran
    (And had Allah not repelled some people by means of some others … – 22:40) Had Allah not repelled some people by means of some others, the monasteries, the churches, the synagogues and the mosques where the name of Allah is recited abundantly would have been demolished. The command to take up arms against the unbelievers is nothing new, because the earlier prophets and their followers had received similar orders from Allah Ta’ElZ and the philosophy behind this command was that without armed resistance no religion would have felt safe and their places of worship would have been destroyed by the infidels.There have been many religions which were founded on the worship of one God and built up by means of Wahy (Divine revelations). In course
    of time their basics were changed and so many alterations were introduced in them that they turned into unbelief and polytheism. But before these things happened, they were true religions and it was the duty of their followers to respect and defend their places of worship. This verse refers to such places of worship only and does not include the sacred SZrah Al-Hajj : 22 : 39 – 41 275
    places of those religions which were not founded on prophethood and revelation (such as the fire-worshiping Magians, or the idol-worshipingHindus) because they were at no time considered places deserving of respect.
    The meaning of this verse is that if at different times the believers had not been permitted to fight the infidels, no true religion would have felt secure and at different times during the periods of Sayyidnii MGsii MI , Sayyidnii ‘hi? and the Holy Prophet the places of worship of their respective religions would have been destroyed. (Qurtubi)

    [Reply]

  • http://fantasticblog.info/wardenz click here

    Thank you! You often write very interesting articles. You improved my mood. Anyway, as long as there is a market for it, these ear-clip headsets have manufacturers falling over one another providing for it, and now there is one company, Aliph, that is trying to put everyone else in the shade in being to be the most impressive of the lot – with the jawbone icon, the tiniest and the hippest of the lot.

    [Reply]

  • gt

    Dear Zia Saheb,

    May I request you to approach this issue from another perspective? Please put on your neutral “hat” and try to understand the extreme trauma experienced by “Hindus” during the successive waves of Islamic rule. Unless the extraordinary events of these many centuries are appreciated from the Hindu perspective, there is no hope of reconciliation in the subcontinent. Even your essay refuses to allow the possibility that some extraordinary trauma has taken place at Ayodhya, ShriVrndavana and SriKashiksetra, to name just three core regions of the Hindu spiritual universe, to say nothing of Kashmir.

    Pray imagine an invader completely destroying the Khaneh Kaaba, (an insubstantial physical structure that in the past has been burnt by rival Muslim armies) . Would not the people living near t remember its exact location and treasure its memory, or that of the Roza-e-Rasool, EVEN after all traces have been deliberately expunged by a determined foe? Please read the accounts of the conquest of the Vikramshila Vihara, which was carefully planned. The central YANTRA was targeted, because it aroused fear, and specfically ground up and cast into water, following which the monastery was SO THOROUGHLY RAZED that today NO ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE is to be found of where it stood. Yet, hundred of reliable eyewitnesses, including non-Hindutva affected Chinese & TIBETAN pilgrims centuries apart have attested to its spiritual and intellectual greatness. SO WHAT GIVES?

    Are Hindus such craven filth to rely on your patronizing pity? Have you read the history of the Bindu Madhava temple in Kashi? Please go to Diane Eck, Banaras, City of Light, and kindly read that with paper & pencil at hand. Another Hindutva stooge? A. D. Rafiqui: Sufism in Kashmir; another Hindutva stooge?

    Muslims in India would have been placed on the head of everyone, embraced as the nearest and dearest, had they had the foresight to do ONE thing: say, let us bury the past. COME, let us join hands, Hindus and Muslims together, and let us TOGETHER restore what is so painful to you.

    Hindus would have taken down with DEEPEST RESPECT the mosques along with Muslims, & rebuilt them with rejoicing next to their own temples and offered extraordinary honor and worship there as well.

    But do you have this vision? NO! You cannot. You all speak continuously of the Sufis, but actually know nothing of their blood-stained history in India. Read about the Banu Kurara, and try to decide if this message came from God or from some other source. Vajrayana Buddhists have come to their own conclusions.

    [Reply]

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SRMTZBUDVDA2V6E24BGOHNWL7I Global

    This article is not really representative of life ALL across India. It seems the Author is only seeing one side of the coin and sticking her views based on what she saw in middle / upper middle class Urban Indian society. She obviously never visited Indian villages and rural parts of India to see what’s happening there. I am an Indian and I like many aspects on life in India – I have lived however in Europe most of my life and am quite sick of the sadness in Europe as well as lack of any value system now….which still does exist in India. Anyway – coming back to the topic – life in Rural uneducated India is still quite like life in rural uneducated Britain. There are plenty of teenage pregnancies in rural India as well – and even worse there is a lot of female infanticide… if a female child is born they throw it in a well or bury it alive – this has led to a huge imbalance between male / female ratio in rural India – and believe it or not but in certain places there are 5 men who end up marrying 1 woman because of a lack of more women in the community. Fact is – uneducated people whether they are in India or in Britain – are going to behave the same way, there are lots of crimes and murders in rural India too – most of those go unreported due to a lack of proper system…. in Britain everything is reported……but one thing I really hate about the UK now is that it has become a total police state, there is no freedom left in UK now and crime levels are seriously the highest in EU. But British kids from good families are just as good as Indian kids from good families – it all depends on the upbringing, education and parents….you notice more well behaved kids in India because there are simply MORE people and more kids in India….there are good and bad things about sexual freedom too… in UK sex is no big deal.. in India it is still a huge deal… its not like Indians dont have sex… they have plenty of it… even extra marital and pre-marital sex… they just never talk about it. Indian colleges are full of drugs too – it’s all very discreet and hidden – in UK its a lot more open… and lastly I think the family system in India is quite sad and frustrating… parents control their children’s lives even after the kids are married…an Indian father is a very dominating person who rules and ruins his kids life…in most cases Indian parents never let their child “choose” a life partner, career, or any other path in Life…which I think is really sad because I know so many people in India who wasted their lives pursuing their Parents’ dream just because of the way Indian society is shaped up. Indians marry before 30 also because of societal pressure nothing else – again all this works in favour of the country and culture but being an individualist I am happier living life the way I want to rather than someone telling me what to do and how to live.

    [Reply]

  • R.V.S.Sharma

    Rahmath saheb ! Lot of it is contemporary politics than history. Islam lost good part of its fanatism in subcontinent. No muslim need offer explanations for the actions of those who were alien invaders. No settled Nawab ever practised such cruelties on his subjects. Poor of all the religions suffered in feudal times. British rule totally changed the country.
    Bringing down an archealogical structure is vandalism and is punishable.
    You can build a museum depicting acts of intolerance each religion is guilty of with emphasis on partition of British India.
    This is not Pakistan. Abhi hum me dam hai ! We will keep this country secular for ages to come.We agree with Sahir saheb- Chodo kalki bathein !

    [Reply]

  • Ali Hyder Tabatabai

    I have combined the two write ups. This is a story that must be probed. DAN BROWN is writing a book on the BLUFF OF KARBALA. A war that never took place between 72 versus 26 lakhs or 72 v/s. 30,000-. Hz. Husain Ibn Ali, Governor of Kufa, was killed by a Zoroastrian (who had converted to Islam after the conquest of Iran), and a Shia-t-e-Ali in the Governor’s Palace. TABARI wrote the fictional novel “Qatl-e-Husayn” in 300 AD (240 yrs after Hz. Husayn’s murder). Tabari based his fictional work on quotes from Al Mikhnaf, a confirmed liar and a vaudeville artiste., a daastangohe., who expired 60 years before Tabari’s birth. Let us presume Tabari wrote the fictional work “Qatl-e-Husain” at age 30., it means that Abu Mikhnaf had died 90 years back.

    Muslims were united as a rock 200 years after the passing away of Prophet Muhammad.

    It is after 3 centuries – that Mazen Del Velmi – the Jew – started Maatam.

    It is from Tabari’s commentary that Salman Rushdie got his idea to write the “Satanic Verses”., because Tabari says., that while the Surah-e-Najam was being conveyed to the Prophet by Angel Gabriel., he felt some interference from Shaitaan !

    Please note what Ibn Khaldoun had said about the murder of Hz. Husain @ the Governor House in Kufah ! “Husayn ibn Ali was murdered by his grandfather’s [Prophet's] sword”. Was he murdered by some of his own groups ? was he murdered by some staff member of the Governor house ? Who was JOSHAN ?

    Selling Vinegar bottled as “Honey”.
    - Ali Haider Nazm Tabatabai, Hyderabad Deccan.

    Shia-ism is a revenge of the Iranians against Muslims for conquering Iran. Period.
    “Truth has arrived and falsehood vanished” – (Holy Quran)
    Fiction sold as truth or in other words Lies concocted :
    1. Hz. Omar taking fire to the home of Hz. Fatima, leading to her assault and abortion. It is a lie. Hz. Ali lived for 24 yrs under the caliphate of Hz. Abubakr, Omar and Othman and he did NOT take the revenge ? He tolerated his wife’s insult and assault ? Amazing from the Lion of God !
    2. Bagh-e-Fidak : Another lie. Hz. Fatima was not cheap enough to fight for a piece of land.
    3. Karbala : Fictional Novel written 3 centuries after the murder of Hz. Husain Ibn Ali. Novelist : Tabari Ibn Hormuz (Zoroastrian).
    4. Hz. Omar murdered by Abu Lulu, a Zoroastrian posing as Muslim (murder mastermind : Abdullah Ibn Saba, the Jew; with support of Iranian/Jew sleeper cells in Madina).
    4. Hz. Othman murdered by Abdullah ibn Saba and his son (they subsequently fled to Yemen).
    5. Hz. Ali served as Governor of Kufah, happily. After the murder of Hz. Othman by Saba`yees., he shifted the capital to Kufah (where he was already settled).
    6. There was no Jang-e-Jamal. The war between Hz. Ali and Hz. Aisha is a bluff and fiction.
    7. There was no Jang-e-Siffeen. The war between Hz. Ali and Hz. Muawiyya is a bluff and fiction.
    8. Hz. Ali was murdered by Ibn Muljam (a Zoroastrian) Mastermind : Zoroastrians and Jews of Iran.
    9. Hz. Hasan Ibn Ali served as Governor Kufah after Hz. Ali’s assasination. He left on health grounds (died of Tuberculosis) and settled in Madinah where he died a natural death. The story of poisoning by wife is another fake.
    10. Hz. Husain Ibn Ali was murdered in the Governor House at Kufah by Joshan Ibn Hormuzan, a Zoroastrian. (Mastermind : the same group of Elitist Zoroastrians, Jews and Sabayeen).
    11. Subsequently, the Zoroastrian Elite and Jews took revenge by inviting Mongols / Halaku Khan to invade Baghdad and destroy Baghdad.
    12. The first casualty was Literature. All literature was burnt. (Abu Muslim Khorasani/Jafar Barmaki & Co. got active; role played by Nasiruddin Tusi, Astronomer)
    13. New literature (Fiction) was produced and propogated. It is this literature that has reached down to us.
    14. Tabari, a zoroastrian wrote the Karbala Novel (purely fiction). It is based on quoting Al Mikhnaf, a liar (and a stage artiste – a Daastaangoh ) who died 60 years before Tabari was born. In other words if Tabari wrote the Karbala Fiction Novel at age 30, that means Al Mikhnaf (his source) had died 90 years ago !!
    SO, Shia-ism may be a religion (a mixture of Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Judaism with Arabic terms/names) by itself, but it is NOT Islam. It has got nothing to do with Islam. Shia-ism is a revenge against Islam. It is getting into Islam, taking Arabic names., and destroying Islam from “within”. Sabayeen succeeded in this endeavour.
    Vinegar is being marketed as Honey. This is now exposed. Those who find the above wrong, may kindly devote time and research for themselves. They will reach the truth if they persevere.
    THE TRUTH
    GHADIR KHUM : Prophet had deputed Hz. Ali as his REPRESENTATIVE for purposes of TAX COLLECTION (Revenue). People of that area had not paid their taxes regularly. SO it was in THAT CONTEXT that he said, “Why did you not pay the taxes when Ali asked you for it (collection). I had sent Ali to do the job”. So that is the context. The trick is to make GHADIR KHUM the Last Speech (thereby diluting the Last Sermon delivered in Arafat). Ghadir Khum speech was fictionalised so as to compete with the Last Sermon at Arafat (that was made second last thru the trick, i.e.). Ghadir Khum is a bluff. It was uttered in that context. Prophet never gave an inclination that Hz. Ali was to be his successor. NEVER.
    2. People forget that Hazrat Ali had 2 sons named : Usman Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib, and Abubakr Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib
    !
    Haqeeqat-e-Waqeya-e-Karbala – REAL STORY OF KARBALA
    With due respect to all Muslims let us stick to truth.
    Why ten days of mourning Muharram? It is well known fact that Shias started this custom of mourning Al-Husayn (maatam Husayn). Shia historian Justice Amir Ali (‘Mohammedan Law’ says, “founder and starter of Maatam-e- Husayn was Mazzal Dal Velmi a Shia in 352 A.H. (300 years after the incident)”. MAZZAL fixed 10 days of Muharram as permanent days for remembrance of the tragedy of Karbala. Shias today commemorate these 10 days of Muharram. Iraqi SABAAI narrators fabricated imaginary stories of cruel acts of horrific nature, like refusal of water and forced combats, which are not reliable and worthy of trust.
    This is fiction. Pure lies akin to truth. In particular details about the date and days. The caravan of Husayn made a very long journey over a difficult route in difficult circumstances, could never have made it in a matter of 20-22 days time and reach its destination (Mecca – Karbala). Fabricators of the story of his arrival on the 2nd of Muharram of 61 A.H. did this on purpose to fabricate fiction for 10 days, which flourish with cruelty, refusal of water, battles and forced combats. The average speed of a laden camel, which is moving in the line of a caravan under normal circumstances, is two and a half miles per hour. Now to cover a distance of about 950 miles (Mecca to Karbala) at the speed of two and a half miles per hour and daily traveling for twelve hours on average would take at least 30-31 days. Departure of Al-Husayn from Mecca was on the 10th of Dhul-Hajj 60 A.H. (Ibn-Kathir) wrote: Husayn with his family members and 60 Kufic companions departed from Mecca for Kufa and the date of his departure was 10th of Dhul-Hajj.´Therefore, it was impossible for him to arrive at Karbala on 2nd of Muharram. According to truthful narrators Husayn reached Karbala on 10th of Muharram 61 A.H., which is acceptable. Thus it is obvious that purpose of fabricated narrations was to enable the narrators to present happenings in the colors and in accordance with their fiction. Nothing has aspired in these ten days, all these incidents are just imaginary stories and lies, then why do we keep Majlis´ in these 10 days of Muharram?
    THE REAL STORY OF KARBALA : Husayn revolted against Yazid bin Muawiya and Kufis instigated him by supporting his idea. When Husain realized on his way near Kufa, that Kufis betrayed his cousin Muslim bin Aqil, he diverted the caravan towards Syria. On his way at Karbala, the Amir’s army halted him. Husain agreed to pledge to Yazid bin Muawiya.
    60 Kufis who had accompanied Husayn saw their fate at stake, now that Husayn had changed. When Army approached them for their weapons, THESE Kufis attacked, and during this attack, Al-Husayn was killed (martyred).
    This incident took place at Karbala when the caravan arrived on 10th Muharram and the fight was over in less than an hour. The claim of the Shias that Husayn was beheaded is a bluff. Husayn was buried with due honours and great respect and the Namaaz-e-Janaza was led by his son Ali bin Al-Husayn (Zeinul Abideen). So every thing was over in less that an hour ! Ibn Khaldoun has famously written : “Hussain was killed by the sword of his grandfather” (Prophet Muhammad!). What happened inside the Tent (Khayma) needs very deep research., esp. when the Zoroastrians destroyed all material along with the Tartars (Halaku and Changez). If Husain Ibn Ali was killed inside the tent.. some say after he agreed to give Bayah to Yazeed.. by the family of Muslim Bin Aqeel..).. A more reliable source says Husain, the Governor of Kufa was killed by a Zoroastrian Joshan Ibn Hormuzan., not in Karbala., but in Kufa.
    The story of denial of water – fight for 10 days – burning of tents – is purely fictional and a bluff. There is no river/lake around Karbala. There never was any lake/river near Karbala for the past 5000 years according to Geologists.
    (Matam : started by Maazal Dal Velmi 300 yrs after Husain!) – Syed Amir Ali, Judge Privy Council, and author of “Mohammedan Law”. The most prominent Shia Scholar !
    [Baquer Majlisi, Author “Bahar-ul-Anwaar” was a student of Mullah Sadra, wrote a tome of lies. Allama Razi wrote attributed his articles to Hazrat Ali ! What a bunch of liars they were. They insulted Hazrat Ali by using his name and building a maze of lies and insults around his family to destroy the mission of Prophet Muhammad]. Shia means to Kill Ali and His Family and friends., then start beating the chest laying blame on someone else (Old Jewish Trick). Khud to Dawaat Phodi – Naam Aur Kaa bataya ? Shia means to destroy the mission of Prophet Muhammad., conquer Kabah and place new idols therein.

    Shia-ism may be a religion, like Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism. That is fine and we respect the Shias for their religion. But Shia-ism has got nothing to do with islam. Shia-ism is a blend of Zoroastrianism, Judaism and Christianity with Arabic names thrown in for effect and confusion.

    I challenge the Aghas of Iran and the Indian Continent to explain to me why the Book “Nabuwwa” is banned in Iran ? I want the Aghas to explain to me the work done by Abu Muslim Khorasani, Jafar Barmaki, Abdullah Ibn Saba, Nasiruddin Tusi etc. in the destruction of Baghdad, and in the destruction of the Muslim Solidarity. Explain to me the role of the above gentlemen and the work they did. But if you remain silent I will explain to you the dirty work they did.

    Shia wants to do the same thing as Jews. Undo Prophet Muhammad’s Islamic mission of Tawheed and replace it with new idols (new designs of Lat-Manat-Uzza, in the form of flags, Panjetan Palm, and other symbols).

    AGARCHEY PEER HAI AADAM ~ JAWAAN HAI LAT-O-MANAAT (Iqbal)

    [Reply]

  • Ali Hyder Tabatabai

    I have combined the two write ups. This is a story that must be probed. DAN BROWN is writing a book on the BLUFF OF KARBALA. A war that never took place between 72 versus 26 lakhs or 72 v/s. 30,000-. Hz. Husain Ibn Ali, Governor of Kufa, was killed by a Zoroastrian (who had converted to Islam after the conquest of Iran), and a Shia-t-e-Ali in the Governor’s Palace. TABARI wrote the fictional novel “Qatl-e-Husayn” in 300 AD (240 yrs after Hz. Husayn’s murder). Tabari based his fictional work on quotes from Al Mikhnaf, a confirmed liar and a vaudeville artiste., a daastangohe., who expired 60 years before Tabari’s birth. Let us presume Tabari wrote the fictional work “Qatl-e-Husain” at age 30., it means that Abu Mikhnaf had died 90 years back.

    Muslims were united as a rock 200 years after the passing away of Prophet Muhammad.

    It is after 3 centuries – that Mazen Del Velmi – the Jew – started Maatam.

    It is from Tabari’s commentary that Salman Rushdie got his idea to write the “Satanic Verses”., because Tabari says., that while the Surah-e-Najam was being conveyed to the Prophet by Angel Gabriel., he felt some interference from Shaitaan !

    Please note what Ibn Khaldoun had said about the murder of Hz. Husain @ the Governor House in Kufah ! “Husayn ibn Ali was murdered by his grandfather’s [Prophet's] sword”. Was he murdered by some of his own groups ? was he murdered by some staff member of the Governor house ? Who was JOSHAN ?

    Selling Vinegar bottled as “Honey”.
    - Ali Haider Nazm Tabatabai, Hyderabad Deccan.

    Shia-ism is a revenge of the Iranians against Muslims for conquering Iran. Period.
    “Truth has arrived and falsehood vanished” – (Holy Quran)
    Fiction sold as truth or in other words Lies concocted :
    1. Hz. Omar taking fire to the home of Hz. Fatima, leading to her assault and abortion. It is a lie. Hz. Ali lived for 24 yrs under the caliphate of Hz. Abubakr, Omar and Othman and he did NOT take the revenge ? He tolerated his wife’s insult and assault ? Amazing from the Lion of God !
    2. Bagh-e-Fidak : Another lie. Hz. Fatima was not cheap enough to fight for a piece of land.
    3. Karbala : Fictional Novel written 3 centuries after the murder of Hz. Husain Ibn Ali. Novelist : Tabari Ibn Hormuz (Zoroastrian).
    4. Hz. Omar murdered by Abu Lulu, a Zoroastrian posing as Muslim (murder mastermind : Abdullah Ibn Saba, the Jew; with support of Iranian/Jew sleeper cells in Madina).
    4. Hz. Othman murdered by Abdullah ibn Saba and his son (they subsequently fled to Yemen).
    5. Hz. Ali served as Governor of Kufah, happily. After the murder of Hz. Othman by Saba`yees., he shifted the capital to Kufah (where he was already settled).
    6. There was no Jang-e-Jamal. The war between Hz. Ali and Hz. Aisha is a bluff and fiction.
    7. There was no Jang-e-Siffeen. The war between Hz. Ali and Hz. Muawiyya is a bluff and fiction.
    8. Hz. Ali was murdered by Ibn Muljam (a Zoroastrian) Mastermind : Zoroastrians and Jews of Iran.
    9. Hz. Hasan Ibn Ali served as Governor Kufah after Hz. Ali’s assasination. He left on health grounds (died of Tuberculosis) and settled in Madinah where he died a natural death. The story of poisoning by wife is another fake.
    10. Hz. Husain Ibn Ali was murdered in the Governor House at Kufah by Joshan Ibn Hormuzan, a Zoroastrian. (Mastermind : the same group of Elitist Zoroastrians, Jews and Sabayeen).
    11. Subsequently, the Zoroastrian Elite and Jews took revenge by inviting Mongols / Halaku Khan to invade Baghdad and destroy Baghdad.
    12. The first casualty was Literature. All literature was burnt. (Abu Muslim Khorasani/Jafar Barmaki & Co. got active; role played by Nasiruddin Tusi, Astronomer)
    13. New literature (Fiction) was produced and propogated. It is this literature that has reached down to us.
    14. Tabari, a zoroastrian wrote the Karbala Novel (purely fiction). It is based on quoting Al Mikhnaf, a liar (and a stage artiste – a Daastaangoh ) who died 60 years before Tabari was born. In other words if Tabari wrote the Karbala Fiction Novel at age 30, that means Al Mikhnaf (his source) had died 90 years ago !!
    SO, Shia-ism may be a religion (a mixture of Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Judaism with Arabic terms/names) by itself, but it is NOT Islam. It has got nothing to do with Islam. Shia-ism is a revenge against Islam. It is getting into Islam, taking Arabic names., and destroying Islam from “within”. Sabayeen succeeded in this endeavour.
    Vinegar is being marketed as Honey. This is now exposed. Those who find the above wrong, may kindly devote time and research for themselves. They will reach the truth if they persevere.
    THE TRUTH
    GHADIR KHUM : Prophet had deputed Hz. Ali as his REPRESENTATIVE for purposes of TAX COLLECTION (Revenue). People of that area had not paid their taxes regularly. SO it was in THAT CONTEXT that he said, “Why did you not pay the taxes when Ali asked you for it (collection). I had sent Ali to do the job”. So that is the context. The trick is to make GHADIR KHUM the Last Speech (thereby diluting the Last Sermon delivered in Arafat). Ghadir Khum speech was fictionalised so as to compete with the Last Sermon at Arafat (that was made second last thru the trick, i.e.). Ghadir Khum is a bluff. It was uttered in that context. Prophet never gave an inclination that Hz. Ali was to be his successor. NEVER.
    2. People forget that Hazrat Ali had 2 sons named : Usman Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib, and Abubakr Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib
    !
    Haqeeqat-e-Waqeya-e-Karbala – REAL STORY OF KARBALA
    With due respect to all Muslims let us stick to truth.
    Why ten days of mourning Muharram? It is well known fact that Shias started this custom of mourning Al-Husayn (maatam Husayn). Shia historian Justice Amir Ali (‘Mohammedan Law’ says, “founder and starter of Maatam-e- Husayn was Mazzal Dal Velmi a Shia in 352 A.H. (300 years after the incident)”. MAZZAL fixed 10 days of Muharram as permanent days for remembrance of the tragedy of Karbala. Shias today commemorate these 10 days of Muharram. Iraqi SABAAI narrators fabricated imaginary stories of cruel acts of horrific nature, like refusal of water and forced combats, which are not reliable and worthy of trust.
    This is fiction. Pure lies akin to truth. In particular details about the date and days. The caravan of Husayn made a very long journey over a difficult route in difficult circumstances, could never have made it in a matter of 20-22 days time and reach its destination (Mecca – Karbala). Fabricators of the story of his arrival on the 2nd of Muharram of 61 A.H. did this on purpose to fabricate fiction for 10 days, which flourish with cruelty, refusal of water, battles and forced combats. The average speed of a laden camel, which is moving in the line of a caravan under normal circumstances, is two and a half miles per hour. Now to cover a distance of about 950 miles (Mecca to Karbala) at the speed of two and a half miles per hour and daily traveling for twelve hours on average would take at least 30-31 days. Departure of Al-Husayn from Mecca was on the 10th of Dhul-Hajj 60 A.H. (Ibn-Kathir) wrote: Husayn with his family members and 60 Kufic companions departed from Mecca for Kufa and the date of his departure was 10th of Dhul-Hajj.´Therefore, it was impossible for him to arrive at Karbala on 2nd of Muharram. According to truthful narrators Husayn reached Karbala on 10th of Muharram 61 A.H., which is acceptable. Thus it is obvious that purpose of fabricated narrations was to enable the narrators to present happenings in the colors and in accordance with their fiction. Nothing has aspired in these ten days, all these incidents are just imaginary stories and lies, then why do we keep Majlis´ in these 10 days of Muharram?
    THE REAL STORY OF KARBALA : Husayn revolted against Yazid bin Muawiya and Kufis instigated him by supporting his idea. When Husain realized on his way near Kufa, that Kufis betrayed his cousin Muslim bin Aqil, he diverted the caravan towards Syria. On his way at Karbala, the Amir’s army halted him. Husain agreed to pledge to Yazid bin Muawiya.
    60 Kufis who had accompanied Husayn saw their fate at stake, now that Husayn had changed. When Army approached them for their weapons, THESE Kufis attacked, and during this attack, Al-Husayn was killed (martyred).
    This incident took place at Karbala when the caravan arrived on 10th Muharram and the fight was over in less than an hour. The claim of the Shias that Husayn was beheaded is a bluff. Husayn was buried with due honours and great respect and the Namaaz-e-Janaza was led by his son Ali bin Al-Husayn (Zeinul Abideen). So every thing was over in less that an hour ! Ibn Khaldoun has famously written : “Hussain was killed by the sword of his grandfather” (Prophet Muhammad!). What happened inside the Tent (Khayma) needs very deep research., esp. when the Zoroastrians destroyed all material along with the Tartars (Halaku and Changez). If Husain Ibn Ali was killed inside the tent.. some say after he agreed to give Bayah to Yazeed.. by the family of Muslim Bin Aqeel..).. A more reliable source says Husain, the Governor of Kufa was killed by a Zoroastrian Joshan Ibn Hormuzan., not in Karbala., but in Kufa.
    The story of denial of water – fight for 10 days – burning of tents – is purely fictional and a bluff. There is no river/lake around Karbala. There never was any lake/river near Karbala for the past 5000 years according to Geologists.
    (Matam : started by Maazal Dal Velmi 300 yrs after Husain!) – Syed Amir Ali, Judge Privy Council, and author of “Mohammedan Law”. The most prominent Shia Scholar !
    [Baquer Majlisi, Author “Bahar-ul-Anwaar” was a student of Mullah Sadra, wrote a tome of lies. Allama Razi wrote attributed his articles to Hazrat Ali ! What a bunch of liars they were. They insulted Hazrat Ali by using his name and building a maze of lies and insults around his family to destroy the mission of Prophet Muhammad]. Shia means to Kill Ali and His Family and friends., then start beating the chest laying blame on someone else (Old Jewish Trick). Khud to Dawaat Phodi – Naam Aur Kaa bataya ? Shia means to destroy the mission of Prophet Muhammad., conquer Kabah and place new idols therein.

    Shia-ism may be a religion, like Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism. That is fine and we respect the Shias for their religion. But Shia-ism has got nothing to do with islam. Shia-ism is a blend of Zoroastrianism, Judaism and Christianity with Arabic names thrown in for effect and confusion.

    I challenge the Aghas of Iran and the Indian Continent to explain to me why the Book “Nabuwwa” is banned in Iran ? I want the Aghas to explain to me the work done by Abu Muslim Khorasani, Jafar Barmaki, Abdullah Ibn Saba, Nasiruddin Tusi etc. in the destruction of Baghdad, and in the destruction of the Muslim Solidarity. Explain to me the role of the above gentlemen and the work they did. But if you remain silent I will explain to you the dirty work they did.

    Shia wants to do the same thing as Jews. Undo Prophet Muhammad’s Islamic mission of Tawheed and replace it with new idols (new designs of Lat-Manat-Uzza, in the form of flags, Panjetan Palm, and other symbols).

    AGARCHEY PEER HAI AADAM ~ JAWAAN HAI LAT-O-MANAAT (Iqbal)

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  • http://www.facebook.com/AdvocateSirajudeen Adv Sirajudeen

    Politicians are not bothered about our territorial integrity. They would use the war only to raise the hype and hold on to the power.

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  • sakthi

    The author had pointed out certain problems.we can ignore this Hindu rate of growth.Our growth actually is not due to any manufacturing/production but due to earnings from service sectors.Our county is becoming market for the producers both local and outsiders.
    The so called Indian Defence forces are capable of taking on the Pakistanis but surely not the Chinese.With a kind of corruption among the politicians ,Govt people and the very citizens we are sure we can not take on the Chinese and its army.The South block is right is in its view.
    Best is we should build a better relations with Pakistan and China a honest relation ship not biased or guiled one .a real good relationship.Other wise public money will be wasted on our defense forces which will not be able to combat chinese on the terrain along the Tibetan state..

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