Who or What Constitutes Greatness? An Essay

Asif Iqbal Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

You are correct – Islam and terror are interwoven indeed. Perception or reality? It is more than a belief that Islam can be successfully dissociated from terror.

Let’s flip the argument a bit. Islam permits self defense, so does constitutions of most countries and the UN charter.

Is there any truth in the fact, that the believers in Islam have been pushed to a corner and ultimately into self-defense, be it through racial profiling, perceived association with illiteracy, gender bias or systematic branding as terrorist?

The trigger could well be as simple as Commercial.

Ever figured, if terrorist do not exist, what happens to the million dollar media business, to the million dollar worth ‘paranoia based’ (arms, x-ray machines, spy programs) industries which thrive on a simple belief that one is unsafe no matter where one is – isn’t is quite similar to how the insurance companies sell their products and never stand by you when you actually need the medical cover?

Or, just the fetish of playing big brother. Or being the supreme power.

Or the fear that, Islam prohibits most vices the current economy is based on? And provides alternatives which are fair and does not allow exploitation by a wealthy few ?

Holy Quran – Chapter2: Verse 11&12 –

When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only want to make peace!”. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realize (it) not.

And therefore, it does not bother us (Muslims) anymore. Because Allah knows, who makes mischief and who does not and what is fabricated and what is not and what is evil and what is not.

And the world plans and so does Allah, and Allah is the best planner.

What the makers of mischief do not understand is – Islam is an ideology and one that of the supreme Lord, your God and mine, Allah.

And therefore this cannot be wiped off by military action or by systematic branding or by perception.

The brighter side, all this is and will lead to more awareness and ultimately be the truth will prevail.

Brother, the channel of dialogue is always open and surely Allah recommends it.

Holy Quran – Chapter 5 Verse 32 : Invite all to the way of Allah, with wisdom and beautiful preaching. And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.

Sam, you are invited too.

Peace

Asif Iqbal

Zia Haq Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

If I understood you correctly, what you have said is the now well-known demand-and-supply theory of jihad. Vali Nasr, the professor of Iranian origin at Tufts, US — who wrote the Islamic Leviathan — and I had discussed this when I had an opportunity to meet him last year. He was a guest lecturer at the Hindustan Times Summit. Nasr definitely thinks there is a demand and supply theory behind jihad, among other causes.

You seem to have resigned yourself to whatever notions of Islam people have. It doesn’t bother you any more. This happens. With repeated insinuations, this will naturally happen. This also only proves a point: many Muslims will develop the “let-barking-dogs-bark” syndrome. This is another way to overcome victimisation. But your optimism and continued faith in your peaceful religion is indeed a very positive thing. Despite so much of muck heaped on you, you begin and sign off your comment with the word peace. There is a lesson in this.

“terror and islam is interwoven”: Such an absolute view of a religion indeed needs to be ignored. After all, you can take a horse to the well, but you cannot make it drink, as they say. thanks for writing in.

Sam Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Comeon …

I throw a challenge to condemn “death sentence upon leaving Islam” and none of the people on these blogs is ready to do it.

Isnt death sentence, violent enough?

What more should I quote and show you the reality in many countries.

I showed how many many islamic scholars all over the world support and fully quote the relevant portions of muslim holy texts.

None you even rose to the occasion of signing up an online petition.
Most of the guys, neither have the rigorous understanding of islamic texts, nor can withstand a debate with fellow islamic scholars.

Keep living in “Alice in wonderland”.

Sam Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

Asif,
Please invite your brothers like Taliban and other Mollahs in Iran and Saudi and teach them about “true islam” as you believe it to be.

You will be doing the world a great service, if can even prevent a single terrorist violence…

Sam

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

Stoning to death is approved and I beleive recommended by islamic religious texts.

If they want to kill a person, why can’t they kill in a less painful way.
Reason– Glorification of violence is approved religiously

Adulterer stoned to death in Iran
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/05/2561683.htm

Where is the condemnation by the islamic and secular groups from muslims and muslim countries ??

SKS Mumbai Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

Dear SAM

You need to be enlightened about the “REAL WORLD” and the politics that drives it. What is often characterized, as Islamic terrorism is actually a “ZIONIST CONSPIRACY”. Of late Hindus have also joined hands with them and are conducting false flag operations all over the world to defame peaceful Islam and Muslims. US is and has always been controlled by powerful Jews.

Every terror attack be it 1/1 …………………………..9/11……………..26/11 and so on was planned and conducted by ZIONISTS. These are the guys behind each and every terrorist attack and organization, whether it is Al Qaeda, Jem………and so on and so forth. These guys are so wretched that they have their puppets posing as OBL, Baithullah Mahsud ……………..and so on and so forth who have been trained by Jews in MISTRANSLATING AND MISINTERPRETING QURAN, DESPITE being fully aware that Arabic can never be translated into another language. I forgot LTTE is also aided, trained by funded by them and they were behind murder of MK Gandhi, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi. Okay this was not for defaming Islam but only to make sure that their weapon manufacturing industry was in pink health, as has now been discovered by great minds of our time that demand for Jihad is created by Jews.

The Underlying economic rationale of this model is beautiful. You see first they create the demand for Jihad, then they start supplying manpower, equipment, strategy and ideology of Jihad and then guide the global Jihad. They also finance all these activities from their own funds. Both sides of the deal are financed by them alone!!!!

You see Muslims have always condemned terrorism, in all its FORMS & MANIFESTATIONS, in strongest possible terms in and have always insisted that the root causes of terrorism must be addressed . They have also always expressed their deep concern and agony on the present global and national (Indian in this context) alarming conditions in which most of the nations are adopting such an attitude against their citizens especially Muslims to appease the tyrant and colonial master of the West, which cannot be justified in any way. They have also expressed their great concern that the internal and external policies of even our country are getting heavily influenced by these forces. Their aggression, barbarism and state-sponsored terrorism not only in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan but also in Bosnia and various South American countries have surpassed all the records known to human history. ——————————————–

I suspect that you are also a ZIONIST AGENT, and that is why you are creating all this MISCHIEF ON EARTH AS ALSO ON INTERNET and asking wrong questions knowing so well that Arabic Quran cannot be translated in any other language

Sam Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

are you for or against “death upon leaving islam” ?

I am still waiting for answer from any of the bloggers or even Zia…

nbz Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 12:41 am

Sam,

Wonder where you got this “Death for apostasy” notion in Islam.
Let me clarify this for you – There is no mention of Death for apostasy mentioned in the Quran.

You can navigate to http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Apostasy1.htm and go through the article.

Hope it clears your misconception.

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 3:38 am

good, that you are responding.

Are you for or against “death for leaving islam” ?

Now please take that article to Saudi Arabia, Iran,…..

where the most learned islamic scholars and tell them how their understanding of Islam is not correct,….

Looking forward to it.

If you can convince them, then I will change my opinion.

Until then, please look up many articles written by those learned scholars why islamic sharia says that “death upon leaving islam” is valid..

Pankaj Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

nbz, If reading or posting artciles could change Taleban’s thinking then it would be great…

nbz, Zia..
instead of teaching non – muslims go teach your fellow “Fanatic” muslims who think that Islam should rule the world… that wud make things better.

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

well said.

the so-called moderates or people similar to zia, wnat to convince that islam is peaceful, nice and great.

if only they can convince taliban, mollahs in iran and scholars in saudi ….

in saudi:
1. it is islamically permitted to marry a 10 yr girl to 60-70 old man.
–justification is muslim religions founder mohammed did, when he married ayesha (9yr old girl) when he is in mid-fifties.
Read up Ayotollah khomeini’s scholarly work on this justification in iran.
2. they had religious aparthied by cleansing jewish people in Mecca and Medina.
Jews were living probably for hundreds of years before Mohammed came up with funny verses which forbade jewish presence anymore.

I challenge muslims to let Jewish people visit Mecca and Medina..

So far no one even acknowledges my question..

Sam

Bobby Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

I do not see the point of your nonsensical rambling. It is not the responsibiity of any “moderate muslim” to make the Taliban and/or the mullahs of Arabia change their views. Religion (all religions) are a matter of interpretation. So moderates are entitled to their interpretation, and they are not responsible for the interpretations of any other person anywhere in the world. So what’s the point of all this crazy talk of yours?

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

Are you for or against “death upon leaving islam” ?

Bobby Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

what a crackpot!

Sam Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 12:28 am

It is important, because on one hand Moslems claim

“there is no compulsion in religion” or something to that effect.

They have another side, which says, kill anyone who leaves islam..

so what is the real truth ?

Not a single muslim has answered me on this issue.

Still waiting for answers.

Ashish Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

@nbz I would draw your attention to the following links regarding current practice of apostasy in Malaysia and Iran
http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/05/04/the-malaysian-constitution-on-apostasy/
http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2008/02/iran-sets-law-to-execute-apostates-and.html

I also went to the link you sent us to and this is an unedited excerpt; below:
(Quote)
Execution
Legal opinion on apostasy by a Fatwa committee concerning the case of a man who converted to Christianity: “Since he left the Islam, he will be invited to express his regret. If he does not regret, he will be killed pertaining to rights and obligations of the Islamic law.”

In Islamic law (sharia), the consensus view is that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi’i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi’a scholars.[19]

A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, notably the Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi (d. 1090),[7] Maliki jurist Ibn al-Walid al-Baji (d. 494 AH) and Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (1263-1328), held that apostasy carries no legal punishment.[8] Some contemporary Islamic Shafi`i jurists, such as the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa,[9][10] some Shi’a jurists such as Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,[11] and some jurists, scholars and writers of other Islamic sects, have argued or issued fatwas that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars.[20][21][22][23]
(Unquote)

Any comments? Having a romantic view of the kind and merciful nature of the original text is alright but the current practice is what gets the goat of folks like Sam.

Ashish Reply:
May 8th, 2009 at 10:31 am

Apologies; I quoted the above from the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

But, the point remains. The dominant thinking and interpretation seems overwhelmingly in favour of execution of apostates.

SKS Mumbai Reply:
May 8th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

GROWN UP Vs YET TO GROW

Tempting as it is, to rip apart the long list of ancient leftist platitudes, for the limitations explained earlier, I let it pass with the following quote (not me):

“IN MODERN LIFE NOTHING PRODUCES SUCH AN EFFECT AS A GOOD PLATITUDE. IT MAKES THE WHOLE WORLD KIN”

Anurag Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 10:13 am

@ SKS Mumbai

You know I was taking a keen interest in the comments for this blog…till I found your comment.
Hilarious!!!

“Zionists!!!!”

Anurag Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 10:42 am

One more thing,
The arabic quran cannot be translated in any other language!!!
I’m sure someone who knows arabic can very well tell me the gist of what is written…
The Bhagvad Gita is written in an ancient Indian Language (guess which!) and yet you can get any educated Hindu to tell you the gist of it (things like “Do not worry about the fruits of your labour. Just do what is required.” Karam karo, phal ki chinta na karo)

Bobby Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 1:31 am

Dear KK,

“These killings of Hindu etc in Pakistan is never found written by any intelectual column in India (may be, to protect minority interest) “except from the mouth of Hindu fundamentalist, whom people rarely beleive”. Do you know our law protect minority interest?”

Firstly what you say is wrong. There are several people who do write about it. Just one place where you can find things written about and against all fundamentalism is this.

http://www.sabrang.com/

There are several such organizations, but this should suffice for the purpose.

More importantly, you dont understand one simple thing. The first job of an honest and patriotic “Indian intellectual” is to point out the problems of his society, because he is in some way responsible for it and can do something about it.

The job of taking up causes of Pakistani Hindus is primarily of Pakistani intellectuals, and you for one have just posted an article of such a person in your previous post.

“Many scholars have been repeatedly mentioning that Hindu, Buddist are better in many ways than current Islam, …….”

Any person who makes such childish remarks can not be a scholar.

What do you mean by “better in many ways”? They are less violent? They have not commited atrocities? Do you seriously believe that hindus have not commited atrocities? or have commited less atrocities???

Is the LTTE a muslim organization? Are Maoists muslims? Are the goondas of the VHP and the Shiv Sena muslims? Since you talk of present times, let me ask you this: Which group of people have caused maximum violence in this century or for that matter this last decade? Who funded the Taliban?

In the 1980’s which religious denomination was talking of secession from India and carrying out violence?

As far as scholarly work on “hindu fundamentalism”…again there are many, you will find some on the site i linked…In particular the Srikrishna Commission report is a good record of what hindu fascists in Mumbai did during the mumbai riots.

KK Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 2:54 am

“Firstly what you say is wrong. There are several people who do write about it. Just one place where you can find things written about and against all fundamentalism is this.”

NO. Neither in the link you have. Just send me article related to partition time. I did not say we should interfer what Pakistan is doing presently to Hindu (I have also pointed in one of my ealrier comment). The article was about partition, history and role of Muslim during partition, what happened during this period. You pointed one time, it was Hindu who was responsible for this. But its not.

I also do not think a good scholar can not compared two religion: do you know Budhism is popular among scholars/intelectuals as real religion? You can find many articles.

Its foolish to equate LTTE, Maoists with Hindu religion. Their origin is not religion but political. Maoists in Kandhamal are chsritian too. You are completely wrong here. You are bringing two things together. In Islam its the relgion, Taliba are religious group but LTTE are not. Both LTTE and Maoists have Hindu and Christians.

You can not separate Indian problem with global Islamic terror. Growth of Hindu fundamentalist and Islamic terrorist are related in India. You can find some of them in Lord Maghnath Desai’s book. M. A. Khan’s book gives some historical background about how Islam spreaded in India (what you commented me). You must be knowing that funding to Indian islamic terrorist comes from many (not one) foreign countries, just like muslim brotherhood.

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 4:05 am

Plight of Hindus & Sikhs with Jiziya demands from True muslims who want Sharia state.

Under sharia, Hindus/Sikhs should pay Jiziya.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/04/rainbow-coalition-of-human-rights-rally.html#more

Bobby Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 9:32 am

“Just give me a statistical comparison of troubles made by Hindu fundamentalist and similar muslim organizations in India since independence”

these are your words..right? you wanted statistics since independence not during partition?

“Its foolish to equate LTTE, Maoists with Hindu religion. Their origin is not religion but political.”

Its not foolish at all. Most of the conflicts have a political origin. Somewhere in some other post you ask why Israel Palestine conflict becomes religious and not political…Well if you know the history of the topic you will know that the resistance to Israel was completely secular till recently , when and after the secular opposition was completely crushed. People tend to go with anyone who will help their cause even if they happen to be fundamentalists.

“You can not separate Indian problem with global Islamic terror. Growth of Hindu fundamentalist and Islamic terrorist are related in India”

nonsense…you dont need any scholarly work to not understand this. What yu claim is against causality……. In India Islamic fundamentalist attacks are very recent phenomenon….while hindu fundamentalist have been sharpening their knives atleast since two decades, if not more.

I repeat….. the Srikrishna Commission report is a good record of what hindu fascists in Mumbai did during the mumbai riots.

since you clearly didnot go through the link i sent you, let me send you specific articles:

http://www.sabrang.com/srikrish/sri%20main.htm
http://www.sabrang.com/gujarat/rssbible.htm
http://www.sabrang.com/cc/comold/mar00/document.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

Ironically, what the “mainstream media” highlights concerning Islamic violence is just the backlash by the victims of radical Islam, not the actions of the instigators, the radical Muslims. The portrayal of the backlash by the victims as the source of the problem, the “mainstream media” is, in fact, fueling resentment amongst Muslims and helping their recruitment to radical Islamic groups for waging Jihadi warfare. The best example of this phenomenon is the Gujarat riots of 2002 (India). These riots were provoked by the Godhra train-burning incident, in which 58 Hindus were charred into coals. The media, callously disregarding the Ghodra train-burning, heaped tremendous attention upon the Hindu backlash, the so-called Gujarat riots, and its Muslim victims. The media also implicitly excused dozens of suicide bomb attacks by radical Muslims, which occurred soon afterward, by citing the legitimate Muslim resentment over the Gujarat riots. None of the “mainstream media” outlets ever stopped to query the psychological state of Hindus when the riots occurred. In fact, the Indian government had ignored for decades the plight of the Hindu victims of radical Islam, prior to the 2002 Gujarat riots. Then there was the Godhra train burning incident ahead of the riots, in which a mob of radical Muslims set fire on a train containing Hindu pilgrims, including women and infant children, burning them alive. This occurred at the same time as mosques were blaring on their loudspeakers messages to kill the “kuffar,” i.e. the Hindus.

The vast majority of the “mainstream media” and politicians refused to acknowledge these facts. It is also true that Muslims suffered extensively during the 2002 Gujarat riots, which HRCARI will never excuse, or endorse. Nonetheless, the Godhra train-burning incident (the instigator of Gujarat riots 2002), the Mumbai train bombings and the London tube bombings are intimately connected: their motivation is radical Islam; the perpetrators are radical Muslims. Why the media, the politicians, refuse to make and highlight this obvious link between these horror acts of terrorism? The horrendous Godhra terror incident was the handiwork of the Tablighi Jamaat, the same group which worked as an intelligence agency for the Nazis, also worked as a proxy in recruiting the Jihadis for the London Tube bombings and the Glasgow airport attack. But hardly any media outlet will ever publish this fact. Instead, the “mainstream media” pretends that all cultures are equal, and we should “give respect” to the culture of radical Islam than confronting this hateful ideology.

http://islam-watch.org/Others/Genesis-and-Working-of-Radical-Islam.htm

KK Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

“these are your words..right? you wanted statistics since independence not during partition?”

OK, GET THE STATISTICS SINCE INDEPENDENCE. YES WORDS ARE MINE, BECAUSE YOU ONLY THINK HINDU ARE ONLY RESPOSIBLE FOR ALL THE BULLSHIT IN INDIA.

“Its not foolish at all. Most of the conflicts have a political origin. Somewhere in some other post you ask why Israel Palestine conflict becomes religious and not political…Well if you know the history of the topic you will know that the resistance to Israel was completely secular till recently , when and after the secular opposition was completely crushed. People tend to go with anyone who will help their cause even if they happen to be fundamentalists.”
YES PALESTINE WAS POLITICAL ORIGIN, WHY DID RELIGION INTEFER TO IT? YOU DO NOT KNOW MAOISTS AT ALL. THEIR IDEOLOGY IS DIFFERENT, THERE IS NO RELGION PLAYING INTO IT. IS LTTE USING HINDUISM? OR HINDU TEMPLES ARE ADVOCATING LTTE (FEW TAMILIAN DO SUPPORT WHICH IS DUE TO ETHINIC, NOTHING MORE THAN THAT). BUT ISLAM YES IT IS.
WHETHER ITS ISRAEL, INDIA, PHILIPINES, THILAND, CHINA, YOU GET IT.

“nonsense…you dont need any scholarly work to not understand this. What yu claim is against causality……. In India Islamic fundamentalist attacks are very recent phenomenon….while hindu fundamentalist have been sharpening their knives atleast since two decades, if not more. ‘

NO. YOU NEED SCHOLARLY WORK. WHAT IS KASHMIR STRUGGLE? WHAT ABOUT BANGLADESH PROBLEM? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IN ASSAM? IS KASMIR AN ISSUE IN LAST TWO DECADES? I ONLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT “HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST HAVE ALSO BEEN SHARPENING IN THIS PERIOD OF TWO DECADES”. NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. IN FACT MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALIST HAVE BECOME MORE VIOLENT IN THIS PERIOD. DO YOU HAVE A RECORD OF BOMB BLASTS IN LAST TWO DEACES, HOW MANY HAVE HINDU FUNDAMENTALISTS’ HANDS AND HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS’ HAND? IF INDIAN PROBELM IS INTERNAL WHERE KESAB COME FROM? DO YOU KNOW FROM WHERE TALIBAN, LAKSHER ETC GET FUNDED EXCEPT PAKISTAN? MY IMPRESSION IS YOU ARE GETTING EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED. THATS OK WITH ME. I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR INSECURITY FEELING.

“the Srikrishna Commission report is a good record of what hindu fascists in Mumbai did during the mumbai riots. ”
IF IT IS GOOD AND NEUTRAL THEN WHY THERE WAS PROBLEM WITH THIS. DO YOU KNOW ITS ALLEGED WITH POLITICAL FOUL PLAYING? MUMBAI OR GUJRAT, DO YOU KNOW BFORE THAT THERE WAS A SIKH RIOT TOO. UNLIKE MUMBAI/GUJRAT IN SIKH RIOT ONLY SIKH WERE KILLED AND NO HINDU. BUT IN GUJRAT/MUMBAI AT LEAST 20-30 % OF HINDUS WERE ALSO KILLED. THAT MEANS MUSLIM WERE NOT SILENT AS WELL. INDIAN STATISTIC IS 80% HINDU AND 13% MUSLIM. IF ANY COMMUNAL RIOTS TAKES PLACE, WHAT WILL YOU EXPECT FROM THIS STATISTICS?

LET ME INVESTIGATE THE SITE, BUT MY FIRST LOOK DOES NOT GIVE AN EMPRESSION OF A RATIONAL SITE.

Bobby Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 12:11 am

“OK, GET THE STATISTICS SINCE INDEPENDENCE. YES WORDS ARE MINE, BECAUSE YOU ONLY THINK HINDU ARE ONLY RESPOSIBLE FOR ALL THE BULLSHIT IN INDIA.”

I have never claimed that hindus are responsible for “ALL THE BULLSHIT IN INDIA.” simply because i dont view people as monoliths, unlike you. But yes like anywhere any ideology which does argue for considering people as monoliths are a danger to any society, in india’s case the Sangh Parivar does that, so therefore the hindutva brigade are the most dangerous elements in India.

“YES PALESTINE WAS POLITICAL ORIGIN, WHY DID RELIGION INTEFER TO IT?……”

I said that not only was the origin of the problem political , the opposition to Israel was also secular. When it was crushed, fundamentalists took over….. Because when people need help they pretty much dont care whether the people who are giving help are fundamentalists or not……

“DO YOU HAVE A RECORD OF BOMB BLASTS IN LAST TWO DEACES, HOW MANY HAVE HINDU FUNDAMENTALISTS’ HANDS AND HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS’ HAND?”

Its not only bombs that cause death and terror…..what the hindutva brigade do in mumbai, gujarat, orissa and now in the rest of india is also terror…you dont see the statistics because you dont count these as terror…..

“DO YOU KNOW FROM WHERE TALIBAN, LAKSHER ETC GET FUNDED EXCEPT PAKISTAN?”

yeah i hope you do know who began funding them and created them in the first place….

“IF IT IS GOOD AND NEUTRAL THEN WHY THERE WAS PROBLEM WITH THIS. ….”

well do i need to answer this one? Do you think anyone can take any action against the biggest goon of mumbai– Bal Thackeray? He gets away with pretty much anything……

“DO YOU KNOW ITS ALLEGED WITH POLITICAL FOUL PLAYING?….”

yes and its alleged by the noble soul Mr Thackeray and his band of angels themselves, for willing believers like you.

“WHAT IS KASHMIR STRUGGLE?…”
its a movement demanding freedom from Indian rule, and for a plebiscite to decide the same as has happened in several other countries in recent times and which therefore seems to me to be a reasonable thing to demand…maybe you dont agree or you know more…

KK Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 1:12 am

some extends you are acceptable, but you missed the link Islam is playing in all these problems. Again as usual you brought problems in Hindu. To a certain extend I agree on RSS/VHP, but now Bal Thakrey is not ruling Maharastra nor India, where is the problem then? Srikrishan commission is also a half truth whether you beleive me or not.

I do not have problem with freedom struggle of Kashmir, but my problem is why religion is playing a role in it? VHP, RSS etc were not killing innocent like bombay blast, except recent Maligaon blast or unless during communal class what happens between two communities. I do not agree that communal riots are one sided. It was also two sided, whether was it in Orissa, Mumbai or Gujrat. Do you know even in Kandhamal 25% dead were Hindus which was also initiated by Christrian affiliated with Masoists by killing a popular VHP social worker in that region (recently arrested chrisitian person who alleged link in killing VHP swamiji is saying he does not belong to Maoist, if it is true then there could be a twist, what state Govt is trying to hide towards minority interest may trigger another tension among Hindus). How mumbai riots was triggered? Was only SS/RSS sole responsible? Or was it the anger of muslim for Bari mosque demolition for which we excuse them? At least recent Orissa/Gujrat was initiated by minority but unfortunately accomlished by majority. You may not agree as in India we never go for such neutrality since independent due to complicated nature of our system. What was Godhra?

Just this statement from your recommended site:
“Two years later, for a period of a whole week, bands of the BJP, VHP and the Bajrang Dal went on a rampage after 33 Hindu pilgrims were killed, allegedly by militants in the Kashmir Valley. “We will reply for the killings there with our actions here,”[59] said VHP’s international general secretary that proved to be the signal for men to ‘avenge the killing of the pilgrims by attacking properties and businesses of innocent Muslims of Gujarat”. In six cities of the state they caused a total of Rs. 15 crore worth of damage to the Muslim minority.[60]”
http://www.sabrang.com/research/comminindia.htm

Now tell me, is it sholarly or truth or polarized statement? First time I read that Kasmir millitant were involved. Totally rubbish. Even Hindu fundamentalists were not scholarly presented. Mostly I find scholarly work eithher support or oppose them without providing a neutral & rational view. In India we could not write our own histrory in neutral way becasue we are afraid that history will repeat again, such as radical Islam would reapet in India like in the past or India woluld repeat the same thing to its minortiy group what Pakistan/Bangladesh have been doing to their minority people.

SKS Mumbai Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

Dear KK

I have been noticing your futile attempts to PROVE the OBVIOUS, knowing all along that you cannot succeed. Here is why:

TRUTH and LOGIC make for poor defense when dealing with MOTHERHOOD statements masquerading as substantive and profound insights but which, in reality, are nothing more than banal attempts to some how conjure Moral Equivalence where no exist. Though this strategy comes in many forms but, at its core, it simply amounts to the profoundest you can read on the backside of auto rics, taxis and Trucks which is “SABKA MALIK EK”. Thus everybody is guilty and so nobody is guilty. QED.

So called liberal and supposedly well-meaning voices keep on pointing to the past ills (largely imaginary as we will see later) heaped upon the ancestors of present day Jihadis as justification of their acts, at their best or as equivalence of some kind at their worst.

As regards the Past ills which are cited by these profoundly secular deep thinkers let us ask them what is their definition of past? Babri Masjid demolition? Gujarat riots? US attack on Afghanistan? Or Iraq ? or the JEWs declaration of state of Israel? Oh I forgot to add India’s independence and partition riots ? Tell us?

But no matter how far you reach in the past, none of these past ills could have been heaped on these poor, innocent Jihadis or their ancestors if Muslim invaders, driven by their duty to free the earth from idolatorous infidels, had not attacked India, and all other places that they could.

As for their ultimate Saitan the global hegemon US, care to find out when was the first war waged by United States outside national boundaries after gaining independence and unification of the country. It was nearly 200 YEARS Ago. Known as BARBARY WAR !! Who were the Barbary States ? Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli . WHY? – Bcoz these states (actually pirates based in these countries) demanded tribute money. FOR WHAT? To allow safe and unmolested passage of shipping through Tripolitanian waters! FROM WHOM ? The American merchant ships and before them the European maritime states. Search the internet you can find out more.

But one might say where is the link? Here it is:

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with TRIPOLI’s ENVOY (YES the ENVOY! ever heard of STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM in 18th century?) to LONDON, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja) . Upon inquiring concerning:
” the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury”,
The ambassador’s reply takes the cake:

It was written in their KORAN, that ALL NATIONS which had NOT ACKNOWLEDGED the “Prophet” were SINNERS, whom it was the ‘RIGHT’ and ‘DUTY’ of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that EVERY MUSLIM WHO WAS SLAIN IN THIS WARFARE was sure to go to PARADISE. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy’s ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

And what is happening today? The real ideology of terrorism in the words of an Indian Islamic Scholar is this “that ISLAM is a POLITICAL (yup that is right! this is what many have been trying to prove that all this is political, so?) SYSTEM political system and that it is the DUTY of ALL MUSLIMS to establish the POLITICAL RULE of ISLAM in the WORLD”. A large number of Muslim youth, he adds, have taken to violence to achieve this objective thinking it to be their TICKET to PARADISE. Even if they cannot eliminate non-Islamic rule, they can at least destabilise it and pave the way for Islamic rule.

This is just as simple as that. So KK, you can’t win the argument but once in a while it is important to at least say it as it is even if it does not enter the great minds of our generation

Now I am prepared to be told “what about LTTE? About VHP, RSS and so on so forth!

SKS Mumbai Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

I missed this statement (not mine except the INFIDEL ) which is for the defenders of root cause theories and practioniners of moral equivalence:,
“There is NO ROMANTICIZED CAUSE or PERSONALITY sacred enough as to “Wash Away Innocent Blood already staining the streets of INFIDEL NATIONS”

KK Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

Thanks SKS Mumbai. You are right. Many people do undertand but scare to challenge it.

When I commented a Professor who study relegion in abroad that in a sense Sidhartha and Mohammad were the same: he surprised me telling that NOT AT ALL. He continued “Sidhartha (whose followers are known as Budist) left everything to get peace and wisdom which should be real objective of any relegion. In case of Mohammad, he only spreaded his thoughts without investigating it and his way of living by force. Today there is still logic and wisdom of many things that Sidhrtha said long time ago (before Mohammad), where as in most cases Mohammad philosophy drags into politics, controversy and do not allow critisim many cases bringing violence. Islam allows to have only 4 wifes at a time neither 1 more nor 1 below. Is their any logic of having 4? Just becasue prophet had 4. He also mentioned in case of Hinduism/Budhism spirutualism have a big role which are rarely found in Islam. Where as violence is part of Islam relegion. These were his words. I do not want to tussle with Bobby who rarely understand these things, except Hindu casteism, VHP/RSS etc, in case anything is wrong pardon me.

Bobby Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 12:09 am

Are you guys dumb or just acting it? Do you need a professor to tell you that the personalities of Muhammed and Siddharta are not the same? Its like saying that Marx and Gandhi had different personalities..big deal..So what? What has that got to do with any of the discussion going on here? I am trying to tell you that the violence we see in todays world has very little to do with who Muhammed or Siddhartha was…It has to do with current distribution of power, resources and politics.

As a kid i grew up on stories of the mahabharata and the wars of Asura and Devas and all that **** which is arguably as violent as any other text you can find anywhere…that did not make me a murderer….These books have limited effect on people…..Real world issues are governed by real world politics..if this is so hard for you guys to understand, then all i can say is GROW UP!

KK Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 1:07 am

I have not read Koran myself (except few translated lines from it) nor Budhism in detail. So I took help of an expert who has worked on it. If you knew it, its great.

At least you agree that they are like Marx and Gandhi.

If you investigate little more I think we will have similar voice.

Distinguishing Asura – Deva sotries and Islamic Jihad will give you the answer. Are you still killing people in the name of Asura?

Politics has a route but relegion does have a bigger route when it comes to Islamic radical.
I also lived in middle east and know a bit how much money Iran and Saudi spend for relegious fighting in other countries.

Bobby Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 1:23 am

“At least you agree that they are like Marx and Gandhi..”

Even though your warped brain wont understand this, but that was not meant as a derogatory comment about either Buddha or Mohammed….

And I do not believe anything you say anymore…about your having lived in the Middle East or Europe or your having read any translation of Koran or any other text. I think you are incapable of independent thought or reading anything which is probably more than a few sentences long. You are just a hindu version of the islamic fundamentalist you so despise.

KK Reply:
May 8th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

You have been realizing your thoughts: how violence when you comapre violence in Geeta with Quoran. Becasuse you can not difference between apple and orange.
You lack basic knowledge in understanding origin of violence. reasons of violence. You are trying to comments things only from the surface. In fact I did have same feeling like yours when I had not read some scholarly work on Quoran. A scholar will not compare Geeta with Quoran in many ways except that its use in religious context. I feel sorry for your knowledge. Logically violence in Geeta is different than what is described in Quoran. Many Hindu scriputures are like either “play” which include fiction parts or “philosophy” who includs knowledge & wisdom, but in Quoran it is only beleiving god they way Mohhamad realized, in Islam you will find cronological events like history book. There is no prove whether Ram was there or not, but there is prove that Mohhamad/Jesus/Budha were there. There are hundreds of thounsands ways why I say Quoran is different than Geeta. Violence described in Geeta is always good vs evil where in in Quoran its different, either intramuslim or inter-religion conflict to establish relegion. Without understanding in detial you are trying hard to follow a line which psedosecularist in India follow for political reasons. Anyway I will not buy your thoughts.

Bobby Reply:
May 6th, 2009 at 1:45 am

My dear KK,

clearly you dont read an article fully. The statement you quote from the site is not about Godhra…!!!!! Please read carefully!!!!

It’s referring to an incident where Hindu fundamentalists in Gujarat, went on a rampage in 2000, to avenge as they said, at a press conference, “attacks on hindu pilgrims in kashmir by kashmiri militants”…this is the context…..

KK Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 12:50 am

it could be? but I found the site is one sided. Has not got both side views. It has tragted only RSS/VHP/BJP thats all (could be politcally inspired).

In Kandhamal, figure shows among 43 killed only 25 are Christians. That means 40% killed are Hindus. My question, who kills these Hindus in Gujarat, Orissa, Mumbai etc? Is it, RSS/VHP? I think the site has glorified things. Christian missionary in India has estimated budget about 88000 crores per year where as VHP’s 100 crore. Conversion is part of Christinity (in chistrinity conversion is through bribing people indirectly through health & education or in other words exploiting poor people’s religion identity) and Muslim (in Islam it is by force, violence). I lived in Europe few years, people will tell you why Church are involved in conversion, its part of it’s relegion like Islamic Jihad. What South Koreans were doing in Afganistan?

VHP/RSS are resistance group like Hammas/Hezbollah (political group), you will find many similarities in principle between these groups except that group in middle east are more violent and rich. I do not think VHP can be equated with Islamic terrorist group like SIMI, Taliban. It could be religious resistance group. Many ideas of VHP also indicates forward looking such in catesim, sati pratha, teaching Veda to dalits etc. It is also less aggressive then many islamic groups and can not be equate with Taliban. VHP’s main interest is to stop aggression like other resistance group in the world. VHP has recently asked to decalre Islamic religious people saying that Hindus are not Kafir. What was the message from other side? Togadia has recognised Jesus and Mohammad like other gods in Hindu like Ram/Krishna. In fact he had mentioned once that they are not against christinity or Jesus except their ideology of converting Hindu/Budhist to their religion. Knowing all these will you equate you Islamic fundamentalists? Did you know Gandhi from the beginging had said missionary would not help India? Thats what we are seeing today. Why Swami was given Govt. protection? The swami in Kandhamal was killed in 11 attempt by Chritian group. Is christianity necessiate cow slaughtering? If swamiji was against cow slaughtering why chirstian missionaries were worried? Just because they want to generate hatred towards Hindusim to convert poor people to their religion. Secondly, why it happened in Orissa, not in UP where as why communalism with Muslim takes place in UP not in Orissa? One thing could be in Kandhamal christian population grew from less than 1% to 10 % in last 3 decades and UP is one of the highest muslim population in India. If VHP was trageting innocent muslim/christain, then was not it would have been easier for VHP/Bajrang Dal to start targeting/attaching minority population where they are negligibe and Hindu has maximum advantage? Why it happens only in region where minority has substantial population? Needs both side view, which this site has failed.

Bobby Reply:
May 7th, 2009 at 1:15 am

“it could be?…”
Not could be …It is! and i had no doubt in mind that you would find it one sided….

somewhere in one of your posts you had mentioned not to “…misunderstood my politeness as lopholes of Hindus…”

In fact I have no such confusions at all. I know very well, that your “politness” is just a farce, hiding the fundamentalist views you hold.

“VHP/RSS are resistance group like Hammas/Hezbollah…”
Are you out of your mind!! Who are they resisting? Where is the foreign occupation? Just this one comment shows the level of brainwashing that you have undergone.

Its just a waste of time talking to you. You are as brainwashed as the Taliban are….

KK Reply:
May 8th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

“In fact I have no such confusions at all. I know very well, that your “politness” is just a farce, hiding the fundamentalist views you hold.”
This is your interpertation. I can say the opposite for you, a psedosecular version.

“Are you out of your mind!! Who are they resisting? Where is the foreign occupation? Just this one comment shows the level of brainwashing that you have undergone.”

Is resistance mean only occupation? Does not it mean to resiting religion from conversion? Neither you are free from brainwashing…. be rational … do not comment like a psedosecular which is common to politicians, you have never comment to the figure I have given, just trying to repeat what you have said earlier…about the site refer to some other people and find it out. I am not forcing you to take my opinion. You are free as I am. In the name of (psedo) secularism you have lost rationality.

By the way my figure does not come from VHP by an independent journalist who is writing a book on Kandhamal now.

Your comparison with Taliban shows how much knowledge you have on this matter or about Taliban, tomarrow you will compare Kesab with Naxallaite, just immature, hinding your own weakness under a psedosecular identitiy.

Do not feel you are not wasting your time, I am educating you about figures & facts.

I have been telling you to do research and tell about statments. Many of my words were part of scholarly work not by politcally/religiously affiliated organizations like yours.

Sam Reply:
May 4th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

Please welcome Talibans, mollahs in iran, islamic scholars in saudi into true islam first.

Tell them that, you do not support islam as they practice it.

Let us see some activity or as you call satyagrah ?

will you do it with islamic sharia countries now ?

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 12:05 am

Asif,
Your comment “If there are countires who award capital punishment for people giving up Islam, to my mind are not practicsing the Quranic law and should be condemned in every form.”

Why dont you find out for yourself about the state of laws in many sharia countries about this..

Asif Iqbal Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 2:14 am

Brother Sam,

All and one are welcomed to the path of Islam – be it the Talibans, the mollahs from anywhere or people like you & me. May Allah show us all the right path.

We will continue to engage with you and others who mis-represent Islam whether they are Muslim or not, simply because -

Allah recommends in the Holy Quran – 16:125 “You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.”

You are invited as always.

Peace

Asif Iqbal

Sam Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 3:57 am

asif,
please dont waste your time in these invitations.
when muslims stop terrorizing that is good enough.

if you really want to invite, go invite all those “misunderstanders of islam” who are terrorizing comman man/woman/children in many countries first.

stop doing your “dawa or your soft jihad” by inviting people who are not terrorizing the world.

instead consider quitting the terrorist’s religion, and open up your mind from enslavement.

Asif Iqbal Reply:
May 5th, 2009 at 10:05 am

Brother Sam,

Enslavement is to Allah alone. Because He is your lord and my lord and the lord of this world and the world hereafter.

And as Quran mentions – “For you, your religion; for me, my religion.”

Peace

Asif Iqbal

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 4:23 am

I have already mentioned about Srikrishna commission. On Kandhamal, National media was politicized in this matter (Times of India etc), regional media was somewhat OK and neutral. Below is one article by a foreigner, what I consider fairly independent related to Kandhamal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSP395323

What this site says about Mumbai train blast, Delhi blast, IISc Bagalore attack, Hyderbad blast, Ahemadabad blast, recent terrorist attack in Mumbai etc? Who were responsible for these? Any comission for it?

This site is biased one. It do not say any thing about the actual problem except minority interest.

Bobby Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

very nice article:

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Op090509we_the.asp

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 4:35 am

How an independent analysis should be:
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSP395323

There are many prochristian sites you can read thousand of man made story. Couple of years ago a claim of high profile alleged nun rape case in India was found to be non-sense. Missionary were also involved in misdid and many misreporting. Minor incident is exagerrated by them to highlist the issue and get financial aid from rich religious people/country, not only in India, all over the world. Read missionary activity all over the world. India is worst affected by missionary activity among many developing countries.

Bobby Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 10:11 am

You clearly have not read the article which you have linked in your post have you?

“They pulled out swords and axes, and called the village barbers,” said Nayak.

“They took us to a temple and told us to put our head before god. They fed us rice and ghee from temple offerings.”

this terror is supposed to be a “***-for-tat” which is what the VHP calls it…and what action of the missionaries is this a ***-for-tat supposed to be for??? well the article tells us…

“….enticed the poor to Christianity with promises of schools, hospitals, and money.”

very good logic, i have to agree.

Moreover, I do not know how you can really compare a newspaper article which is primarily based on a series of interviews to investigative journalism as was the case of the link i provided or to the srikrishna commission report which is a report made after long investigations and documenting evidences.

Many of these missionaries are anyway morons, like all religious people are to some level, but what is happening in kandhamal is a law and order problem, and the VHP or any other terror outfit should not be let to operate like it does, terrorizing people. Conversions are just an excuse for its real agenda which is to convert India into a Hindu Rashtra, an equivalent of the rule that the Taliban imposed on Afghanistan.

Bobby Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

To Zia,

its funny that the moderating system here put a *** for what was clearly not an abuse. It of course mistook it to mean something else which its not in this context!!!!

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

I have read the article well, I have given you an example how an article could be neutral. In India we rarely, even srikrishna commission does not point this aspect. Thats the reason I do not trust, all these commissions have hidden political affiliation, otherwise we would not have 2/3 reports contradicting each other for every misdid, like Godhra. Gujarat etc. You are blindly going with such report/commossion depending on whom you sympathaize. Thats the reason I sent you the article to educate you how neutral article can be prepared.

When it comes to Kandhamal, have you visited? I have visited personally. Its not a law or order problem at all as described by anti-Hindutwa/psedo-secular party for political reasons (congress etc). Its exactly described in the article, more precisely. Do you know BJD/BJP broke alliance just because of Kandhamal? Did BJP want such thing to happen so that what ever the chance Advani as PM it loses? Everybody knows in Orissa it was not political unlike Gujarat (there was no reason for BJP to make such an effort) and more religious and ethnic fighting. What is written by Dhiren Panda is keeping christian interest, he has not given a complete figure except highlighting one side of the coin.

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

Why now moderation? Is not you are afraid of truth?

Bobby Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

“Why now moderation? Is not you are afraid of truth?…”

My dear KK …..please read before commenting!!!!

Bobby Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

“Do you know BJD/BJP broke alliance just because of Kandhamal? Did BJP want such thing to happen so that what ever the chance Advani as PM it loses?”

this is a stupid argument, every culprit thinks he will get away, else if he always thought that he would get caught, then there would have been no crime…..

The BJP attitude to the whole thing has always been ambivalent, when there are riots instead to condemning and taking action they start saying “let there be a debate on conversions”. For them the issue is not that innocents are being terrorized, but rather “conversions”!!

This is like the attitude the Shiv-Sena has..when some women were molested in a pub, some years back in mumbai the great leader Bal Thackeray commented that this is because the girls wear mini-skirts! so this way the blame is shifted to the victims..

this is typical methodology consistently used by the right wing crack pots.

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

another one:

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.6.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

Muslims in Jails

It has been pointed out earlier that when it comes education, land holdings and employment, Muslims are well below their share of the population. But contrastingly, they have a disproportionately high representation when it comes to being in prison. In fact, in many states, Muslims even make up a higher percentage of population in jail than they do outside. “Muslim percentage of inmates in jails in states is as high as their share in population, in many states, including Gujarat, Maharastra, Jharkhand, Karnataka, it’s even higher”, says the Sachar Committee Report. Table III below shows the data forwarded to the Committee by eight states:

——————————————————————————–

Table – III: The summery for the 8 states, 23.4% of prison inmates are Muslims.

(%) Muslim Convicted & In jail for In jail for In jail for In jail for
population under trial > 1 yr 1-5 yrs > 5 yrs <1 year

Assam 30.9 30.0 n.a. n.a. n.a. 28.1
Kerala 24.7 37.1 39.5 43.3 28.7 38.3
Jhharkhand 13.8 17.6 14.5 37.5 8.6 14.8
Karnataka 12.2 17.6 14.5 37.5 8.6 14.8
Delhi 11.7 27.9 23.9 23.8 24.0 29.1
Maharastra 10.6 32.4 34.7 38.5 22.8 40.6
Gujarat 9.1 25.1 26.2 25.8 21.9 n.a.
Tamil Nadu 5.6 9.6 10.9 10.1 10.7 7.7

——————————————————————————–

Experts agree that this statistic, a key finding of the Sachar Committee, has major social and political implications. Such a high figure of incarceration, experts say, means further marginalization and isolation of the community, deepening prejudice and distrust.. Though there is no break-up of the nature of crime for which these inmates have been imprisoned, sources said the total number of inmates surveyed is 102,652 and a majority of them are not for terrorism. A dozen of states with significant Muslim population shares were asked to furnish statistics on the number of Muslims in prison, convicted and under trials. West Bengal, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Andhra Pradesh have not reported back to the Committee and data is available only for eight states that did.

Incidentally West Bengal, UP and Bihar rank at the bottom, when it comes to representation of Muslims in Government employment, including state public sector undertakings and the lower judiciary. But the data presented above (Table III) show that when it comes to Muslims in the prison population, Maharastra, Gujarat and Kerala are the most disproportionate.

In Maharastra, The share of Muslim in total population is 10.6%, while the Muslim share in the total prison inmates is 32.4%

When comes to those in prison for less than a year, Muslims contribute 40.6%. In Gujarat , the percentage of Muslims in the state is just 9.06%, but they make up over a quarter of all jail inmates.

Assam, the second highest Muslim populated state in the country, after J & K, has 30.9% Muslims, and here, the percentage of Muslims jail inmates is 28.1.

Even Karnataka, which did relatively better than other states in providing jobs to Muslims, shows the same trend: 17.5% of its jail inmates are Muslim as compared with 12.23% of its population.

In Delhi , where Muslims make up 11.7% of the population, they constitute 29.1% of those in jails for less than a year.

“The debate over these numbers is a complex one”, Says Prakash Singh, the former Director General of the Border Security Force (BSF). “There is unjust suspicion against the police, in cases of terror attacks or communal riots, if the police go after the perpetrators of the violence, and they happen to be mostly Muslims. You cannot, in the name of secularism, expect the police to act in proportion to their population”, Mr Singh added.

The data presented above were appeared in the October 29, 2006 edition of The Indian Express, but most surprisingly, it was seen that some of data were deleted in the final Report that was tabled in the Parliament a week later. What prompted the Committee to delete such vital data? There is no doubt that it was done at the instigation of the Congress Party led UPA government to hide the real face of the Muslims from the common people of India. These dishonest politicians, according to their policy of Muslim appeasement, are propagating the entirely wrong information regarding Islam and the Muslims day and night and say that Islam is a religion of peace and the Muslims are good and peaceful citizens of India. Or, in other words, they are trying to cover a hyena with the hide of an innocent lamb. But, as the findings of the Sachar Committee are entirely contrary to their false propaganda, they had no other alternative but to delete the data.

But even a Muslim bureaucrat has objected to this mischievous attempt of the government. Mr Wajahat Habibullah, The Chief Information Commissioner, while commenting on this aspect, said, “This data should have been included. They may have their reasons for excluding it, but to see the story of the Indian Muslims and the problems faced by the community in totality, it should have formed a part of the report.”

Many apologists, simply to hide the criminal mindset of the Muslims, have tried to link the said high incarceration rate of the Muslims to their poverty and said, “Nearly 44% of urban Muslims, compared to 28% of national average, are lying below poverty line and this wide spread poverty is responsible for their adopting criminal path for earning a living.” But the excuse is no longer tenable, because, as has been pointed earlier that a substantial portion of Hindus belonging to the OBC and SC/ST categories are victims of similar level of poverty. But they don’t have similar criminal propensity. Others say that poverty deprives the Muslims to engage good lawyers to fight their cases and hence they are imprisoned. That is also not true as in every state, there are legal cells run by the governments that provide legal help to helpless poor people free of cost.

Islam is the real culprit

Though the so called secular politicians of India , for the sake of their policy of Muslim appeasement, not dare to speak the truth, the discussions presented above points to the irrefutable truth: ISLAM IS THE CULPRIT. What would be the implications of the Sachar Committee Report, is debatable, but there is no doubt that it has uncovered the glaring truth – the entire Muslim community is bleeding under the oppression of Islam. It has unveiled the havoc Islam is causing the Muslims of India. Islam is ruining the Muslims of India, and the world community of Muslims at large, in two major ways: Firstly, it is pulling them from behind in their race for progress and prosperity and secondly, it is turning the Muslims into a community of criminals. It also substantiates the common notion that, it is Muslims who are most oppressed by Islam.

The Muslim clerics brainwash the common Muslims, most of whom are illiterates or scantly educated, that Islam is the best religion on the earth. The teach that Islam is superior to Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and all other religions and the Koran contains the most up to date massage of God. The question therefore naturally arises – despite following the best religion and the most up to date message of God, Muslims, throughout the world, are so backward in every walk of life. And moreover, why they are so inclined to criminal activities.. Not only in India , everywhere in the world, Muslims top the list of criminals. For example, in most of the Western countries, Muslims share of population is below two digit figure. But in theft, burglary, murder and rape, they are at the top of the list. We shall now delve into the matter a bit to show how Islam is forcing the Muslims to remain backward and how it turns them into criminals.

It should be mentioned here that, Islam is a package and one has to accept or believe in its entirety. One cannot say that I believe such and such portions of the Islamic theology and do not believe in the rest. A believer must have blind faith in every aspect of the creed. He must believe that, the Koran is the words of God and hence beyond any dispute. He must have the blind faith that the contents of the Koran are truth and anything else is false. He must believe that before the revelation of the Koran the entire world was inundated by the darkness of falsehood and ignorance, and through the revelation of the Koran, Allah has separated light of wisdom from the darkness of ignorance. The social laws laid down by Allah in Koran are to obeyed without any alteration and those are divine laws ordained by Allah and hence stand superior to any law formulated by human beings.

So, the Koran says,

“And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ” (5:48).

“So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee. And if they turn away, then know that Allah’s Will is to smite them for some sin of theirs. Lo! many of mankind are evil-livers” (5:49).

“Is it a judgment of the time of (pagan) ignorance that they are seeking? Who is better than Allah for judgment to a people who have certainty (in their belief)?” (5:50).

So, in the above verses of the Koran, Allah specifically orders the believers to strictly adhere to the laws He has revealed and not to follow laws proclaimed by ordinary human beings. The people who follow the laws created by human beings are evil-livers. During the days of jahelia, or darkness of ignorance, i.e. before the revelation of the Koran, pagans and ignorant people used to follow those laws.

The Islamic Voice is a Bangalore based monthly and its current, or April 2009, edition carries an article Allah’s Law and the Law of Ignorance, written by Sayyid Qutb. Perhaps the original version was in Arabic, which has been translated into English by Adil Salahi. In that article the author writes, “The central point in this verse (5:48) is that no modification of Allah’s law and no compromise with regard to its provisions is admissible for any purpose.”

The author continues, “In the second part, (of the verse (5:48)) the Prophet is warned against compromising even a portion of what has been revealed to him: “judge between them in accordance with what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their vain desire; and beware of them lest they tempt you away from any part of what Allah has revealed to you” the warning here is more precise, stricter and stronger, it also states the matter in it true nature, it is a temptation which must be resisted, the choice is either to implement Allah’s law in full, or to follow vain desires.”

“Having made it absolutely clear to all believers that nothing of the provisions of Allah’s law will compromise for any purpose and under any circumstances, the Surah puts the choices available in contrast. It is either Allah’s law or the law of ignorance: there cannot be a meeting ground between the two. Which one will they choose… the implementation of Allah’s law and following the way of life He has outlined, or the rule of ignorance and vain desires? “Do they desire to be ruled by the law of pagan ignorance? But for those who are firm in their faith, who can be a better lawgiver than Allah?” the author adds.

To establish the superiority of Allah’s law, the author writes, “For those who are firm in their faith, who can be a better lawgiver than Allah?” Indeed, who can be? Who can claim that he can give people better law than that of Allah? What argument can be given to prove his hollow claim? Can he say that he knows the nature of mankind better than their creator? Can he say that he is more compassionate and sympathetic to mankind than their Lord? Can he say that he knows their interest better than the God of mankind?”

To conclude the article, the author writes, “It is Islam or ignorance, faith or unfaith, the rule of Allah or the rule of pagan ignorance, those who choose not to judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed are disbelievers, wrongdoers and transgressors. Their subjects who do not accept Allah’s law are not believers.. This question must be absolutely clear in every Muslim’s mind, unless it is so clear; he will not be able to differentiate between truth and falsehood and will not be able to take one footstep in the right direction..”

So, it is not difficult to understand the message of the article. Any law, not ordained by Allah, is a law of ignorance and hence a Muslim must not follow such a law. Every Muslim must follow the law revealed by Allah because a man can never be a better law-giver than Allah. A Muslim, who refuse to follow the laws of Allah and follows the law of ignorance created by man, is a disbelievers, a wrongdoers and a transgressors, or simply a kafir. At the same time, no amendment, or up dating, or compromising with Allah’s law is permitted. How a mortal human being be capable of over-writing, distorting or modifying Allah’ law?

Here lies the seed of worldwide backwardness of the Muslim community. Almighty Allah has revealed His divine laws nearly 1400 years ago and every Muslim is bound to follow that rules today without any alteration or modification. Once upon a time, the Christians were also compelled to follow the rules laid down by God in the Bible, because at the end of the New Testament, God said, “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from his in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book” (Revelation, 22:18-19).

But During the period of Renaissance, the Christian world could liberate themselves from the clutch of this God’s law and the oppression of the Church at the cost of sacrifice of many noble souls. But it is highly debatable whether such a revolution will ever take place in the Islamic world, which would liberate the Muslims from the oppressive Arab religious imperialism, return their right to freedom of speech, liberty and democracy.

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.5.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

do you have evidence? why the nun is running away to have a TI parade? what the scienitic evidence shows on rape, alleged to be a gang rape has come down to rape… one should not get into politics until whole truth comes out …. politics is real culprit…

Bal Thakrey quote is exactly like here:

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.6.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

you can also find about Sachar committee, similar to srikrishan commission, in the link I have given
http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.6.htm

Atul Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

Zia,

When I read your current post, I thought it your weakest yet, and passed.

Now some days later, I see this huge interaction. I was obviously very very wrong.

At this rate, if you were to do a movie review of Sound of Music, it wouldnt make a difference to the nature or frequency of responses.

I am certainly far more informed, but certainly, none the wiser………..

Where is all this leading to?

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Anti-India Jihadi Mindset of India’s Muslims

It has been pointed out earlier that, after the present Congress Party led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government came into power, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh appointed a high level committee in March 2005, led by retired Supreme Court Judge Justice Rajinder Sachar, to investigate the social, economic and educational status of Indian Muslims. Before proceeding further, let us make it clear, first, what inspired the ruling Congress Party to set up a committee to investigate the social, educational, financial and other aspects of the Muslim community and second, what is the real agenda of India’s Muslims?

It is pertinent to point out beforehand that it was not a genuine aspiration to improve the lot of the Muslim masses that had inspired PM Singh to appoint the Sachar Committee. The leading Congress Party claims itself to be a secular party and in India secularism has become a euphemism for the appeasement of Muslim; the so-called secular political parties, in the name of secularism, resort to rampant appeasement of Muslims to secure their votes. The Sachar Committee was supposed to prepare a report according to the guideline set by the Congress Party, the biggest secular party and player in this Muslim appeasement game. Congress Party’s objective was to increase its Muslim appeasement, under the cover of the Sachar Committee recommendations, so as to hoodwink the non-Muslim citizenry. By hook or by crook, Muslim votes, which is instrumental for remaining in power, must be secured.

It is to be noted here that in the West, the so-called liberal politicians have also started appeasing Muslims for securing their votes to win elections. The introduction of a Sharia court in the UK and the government’s barring of Geert Wilders’ entry into the country are burning examples. “I was invited to give a speech in the House of Lords. However, upon arrival at Heathrow airport, I was refused entry into the UK, and sent back to the Netherlands”, said Mr Wilders. “Just like the British ban, the decision of the Amsterdam Court of Appeals to prosecute me for Fitna and my views on Islam, is a major blow dealt to freedom of speech in Europe. They are full-fledged attacks on freedom of speech in order to appease Muslims”, he added.

It is well known that Islam is devoid of concepts like nationalism, nationality, patriotism and so on. Instead, they believe in worldwide Islamic solidarity or Islamic ummah. As a result, the pious Muslims living in India are not Indians and, at best, they may be called “resident non-Indians”. They have no loyalty and respect for India; they are loyal, first and foremost, to Islam and Allah. Though they live in India and sustain on its natural resources, their loyalty lies firstly with Pakistan and then with Arabia. In the Muslim eye, India is not his own country or his motherland; it is simply a dar-ul-harb, or a land of warfare and bloodshed, which is to be conquered for Islam to turn it into a dar-ul-Islam. India is a land where darkness of ignorance or jahelia still prevails, because Sharia law has not yet been implemented here. They would consider India to be their own country only when it has been thoroughly Islamized and turned into a dar-ul-Islam by enforcing the Sharia, the divine law of Allah.

So, all pious Muslims of India, in their inner core, hate to live in India, hate to coexist with the Hindu and other kafirs, who, according to the Koran, are Islam’s enemies. They aspire for the day when Muslims would conquer and rule this country and when all the kafirs would be vanished through conversion to Islam or other means. They would consider India as their own country when Sharia would guide the legal and administrative systems and Islamic system of education or madrassa system would replace the present secular system of education.

On the contrary, the Hindus consider India as their motherland, strive hard to bring prosperity to, and to enrich and glorify, their motherland. They, therefore, aim to get good education and become creative people and responsible citizens of India. And, for a pious Muslim mind, India is not his motherland, yet to be his own country. They do not treasure the glory of India, but dream for its conquest someday. So long they cannot conquer India, they should continue their jihad or to cause any damage they can by engaging in subversive activities.

For them, receiving education is not of immediate necessity, but to maintain a jihadi mindset for the future conquest of India is. They establish Islamic schools, the madrassas, and send their children there. These students come out with their minds imbued with the jihadi teachings of the Koran and Hadith and many of them take up the jihadi course: acquire weapons and explosives to engage in subversive terror activities.

Low Levels of Education among the Muslims

It is not difficult to understand that such a mindset turns the Muslims of India into intellectually crippled people, who fail to emerge as forerunners in the field of knowledge and creativity. This is not confined not to India alone. Muslims are backward in education and in all other walks of life everywhere in this world. American journalist Alex Perry writes of Indian Muslims (TIME, Aug 4, 2003):

“Indian Muslims today are less educated, poorer and live shorter, less secure and less healthy lives than their Hindu counterparts. Census figures paint a bleak picture of their plight. In rural India, 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus; in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%. Some 13% of India’s population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus.”

In India, 59.1 percent Muslims are literate, whereas the general rate of literacy is 64.8 per cent. Though the rate of literacy is not so gloomy, most of the Muslim learners do not attend schools beyond 3rd or 4th class standard. So the Sachar Committee Report says, “As mentioned earlier, education is an area of grave concern for the Muslim Community. … The recognition of their educational backwardness is quite acute amongst a large section of Indian Muslims and they wish to rectify it urgently.” (The phrase “they wish to rectify it urgently” is a lie.) …. Relying predominantly on Madarsa and denominational institutions for improving the educational status of Muslims was also seen by some as violating the spirit of the Constitution.” To hide the real cause, the jihadi mindset of Muslims, for their low profile in education, the Committee writes, “Poverty—the Main Cause of Low levels of Education.”

To describe this poverty, the Committee says,

“Indian Muslims today are less educated, poorer and live shorter, less secure and less healthy lives than their Hindu counterparts. Census figures paint a bleak picture of their plight. In rural India, 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus; in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%. Some 13% of India’s population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus. Nor are any of these indices improving.”

The poverty is one of the reasons, no doubt, but the reader should recall that their effort to swell their population by unbridled procreation is one of the major reasons of that poverty. In this regard, the Report says,

“High dropout rates among Muslim students are worrisome. As with many Indians, the main reason for educational backwardness of Muslims is abject poverty due to which children are forced to drop out after the first few classes. This is particularly true for Muslim girls. Little children are expected to provide for their families by working in karkhanas (small workshops), as domestic help or by looking after their siblings while their mothers go to work. It was felt that the incidence of child labour was much higher among Muslims as compared to other SRCs (Socio Religious Communities). Poor and illiterate parents cannot afford tuition for their children; nor can they provide the necessary support system at home which has become so essential a part of today’s educational system.”

As a consequence, the presence of Muslims in the area of higher education is negligible. To highlight this aspect, a report in the Indian Express says,

“The Sachar Committee has uncovered a more worrying trend in the IIMs (Indian Institute of Management) and IITs (Indian Institute of Technology), Muslim students make only 1.3% and 1.7% respectively. Data collected by the Committee for 5 IIMs for 2004-05 and 2005-06 puts the Muslim count at 1.3% or 63 in a total of 4743 students. The Committee did not have socio-religious break-up of the number of students who take the Common Admission Test (CAT) since no such data is collected. But on the basis of data available for all levels of the examination – the written test, the interview that follows and the group discussion – the Committee has concluded that while the success rate for Muslim candidates is better than for other communities (a strike rate of “one out of three”) yet, in the final list, only 1.3 per cent of those who make it are Muslims.. As far as the IITs go, of the existing 27,161 IITians, only 894 are Muslims. At the under-graduate level, only 1.7% are Muslims. Though the percentage gets better at the higher stages – about 4% – it’s still much lower than their population share.”

While commenting on this aspect, the educationist Anil Sadgopal says he is

“not surprised at the low figures for Muslims… I am sure the figures for Dalits and tribals are in the same range. With a high drop-out rate for Dalits, tribals and Muslims, how will they ever reach the level of being able to compete for seats in elite institutions like these? When only 5-6 percent of the school-going and tribals reach Class XII, with Muslims, being in the same range, how will a decent percentage of these make it to elite lists? The problem is the lack of a good and equitable school system. If that’s not rectified, then most Muslims, Dalits and tribals will get filtered out at the school level itself”

The following table reflects the presence of Muslim students in undergraduate studies:

TABLE – I. Students Enrolled In Undergraduate Courses 2004-05 (%)

——————————————————————————–

Subject General SC/ST OBC Muslims

Arts 45 25 20 10
Commerce 60 15 15 10
Science 50 20 20 10
Engineering 34 15 15 9
Medical 65 15 15 5

SC – Scheduled Castes
ST – Scheduled Tribes
OBC – Other Backward Castes

——————————————————————————–

To hide the real reason and to hold poverty and some other ridiculous and fabricated factors responsible for dismal levels of education amongst Muslims, the Report continues,

“Government schools that do exist in Muslim neighborhoods are merely centres of low quality education for the poor and marginalized. The poor quality of teaching, learning, absentee teachers, in turn, necessitate high cost inputs like private tuitions, particularly in the case of first generation learners from the Muslim community. This has a negative impact on retention and school completion. Thus, poverty again has a causal link with access to education among Muslims.”

It has been pointed out earlier that the Sachar Committee was appointed by a government, whose sole intention is to remain in power with Muslim votes and hence to appease them. Bashing the Hindus is another part of this farce. The Committee has tried to hold the Hindus responsible for the Muslim backwardness in education. So the report says,

“The ’communal’ content of school textbooks, as well as, the school ethos has been a major cause for concern for Muslims in some states. This is disconcerting for the school going Muslim child who finds a complete absence of any representation of her Community in the school text. Moreover, many schools are culturally hostile and Muslim students experience an atmosphere of marginalization and discrimination. Subtle deterrents to school admissions have already been mentioned.”

The Committee continues,

“A growing communal mindset among large number of school teachers adds to the ‘hostile’ school atmosphere. The distrust levels can be gauged from the fact that people actually believe that schools in some states have been given instructions to not let Muslim students pass in examinations. It is also alleged that it is not easy for Muslims to get jobs as teachers. Besides, Muslim teachers are often treated badly. The transfer of Muslim teachers to schools at a great distance is not uncommon. Discriminatory stoppage of salaries of Muslim teachers has also been alleged. It has been reported that in some locations, Hindu parents refuse to let their children go to schools where there are Muslim teachers.”

Madrasa Education

As noted already, Muslims, preferring to educate their children with the jihadi Islamic teaching, enroll their children into madeasas. Most madrasas, except those run by the government, teach nothing beyond the Koran and Hadith and that too in Arabic, which they understand little. Nonetheless, they learn the essence of Islam, like non-Muslims are despicable kafirs, Allah has ordained jihad against the kafirs to occupy their land and, thus, to conquer India for Islam. So, these madrasas are nothing but factories for producing jihadi terrorists.

It has been said earlier that the Islamic clerics (mullahs) insist that Muslims send their kids to madrasas to become good Muslims, not necessarily good human beings. They despise secular education provided in regular schools and never prescribe such schools for Muslim kids. They are scared that Muslims may become enlightened by attending these schools and hence may start questioning Islam. Light of knowledge is always to be guarded against, because “Islam is total darkness and hence vulnerable to light.” But the apologetic Sachar Committee writes,

“Madarsas, through which the Community ensures that its future generations acquire knowledge of Islam, have become a symbol of Muslim identity in India. Often they are looked upon with suspicion by the wider society, despite the fact that they are involved in providing religious education to the Muslim community. Labeling of Madarsas as a den for terrorists is extremely worrisome for the Muslim community. Even though there has been no evidence to suggest that Madarsas are producing terrorists they are constantly under scrutiny. This exercise, even as it is insulting to the Community, has a detrimental and traumatic impact on the children studying in the Madarsas.”

The report continues,

“It has been pointed out that the existence of Madarsas (though not as a substitute for regular schools) is necessary for Muslims as, apart from providing basic education, they serve as an important instrument of identity maintenance for the Community. Many a time Madarsas are the only educational option available to Muslim children, especially in areas where no schools have reached the Muslim masses. Very often children go to the Madarsas not out of choice but due to non-availability and inaccessibility of other schools, and a near absence of education in their mother tongue. Madarsas, where they operate are rendering useful service as far as literacy is concerned. However, there is an urgent need to recognize that a very small percentage of Muslim children actually attend Madarsa education.”

From the above rhetoric, it is not difficult for readers to the author’s gauge the effort not only to hide, but also to encourage, the jihadi mindset of Muslims.

Several state governments have tried hard to modernize madrasa education with the introduction of science, mathematics and computer education, but all such efforts failed due to violent opposition by the mullahs. So the Report says,

“Modernizing Madarsas by the government has been a very contentious issue with many differing viewpoints amongst the Community. While there is a general acceptance of an urgent need for the modernization of Madarsas, the modernization scheme of the government have not really provided much relief to the community as far as quality education is concerned. Promises made with regard to modernization have proved inadequate as nothing much has been done.”

On the contrary, to hide the real hindrance, the Committee imports totally baseless excuses and writes,

“Science and Mathematics teachers appointed under this scheme have not been paid their salaries regularly. Besides, the salaries fixed are too low. It is widely believed that the help given to Madarsas is “on paper alone”. Giving computers to Madarsas has not been perceived to be of great help to the Community. Rather, it was suggested, provision should be made for teaching science, mathematics and English. Provision of a recurring grant for Madarsas would help. However, Madarsa ‘modernisation’ does not mean only having science/mathematics teachers and installing computers. As mentioned earlier Madarsas need to be affiliated to/recognized by regular education boards. Employability is often not provided by the Madarsas, and they would become ‘modern’ only when that issue is taken care of. The need for mainstream schools to provide free and compulsory education (which is the responsibility of the State) cannot be overlooked. ‘Reform’ of Madarsas and providing education through mainstream schools are not substitute strategies.”

So, it can be said that the Muslims of India are backward, like the Muslims of other countries, because they prefer to remain backward.

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.3.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

read some more about such committee:

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.5.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

Politics of Muslim Appeasement in India

On March 26, 1940, the leaders of the Muslim League, the political front of Indian Muslims, raised the issue of creation of Pakistan as a separate Muslim homeland; and on August 14-15, 1947, the partition of India into two independent states, India and Pakistan, became a reality. At that time, the Muslim population in undivided India was 23 percent, but Pakistan received 32 percent of the land area. The most appropriate step after the partition was to carry out population exchange, or send the entire Muslim population of the divided India to Pakistan and bring all Hindus and other non-Muslims from Pakistan to India. This exchange of population, a logical part of the partition, was included in the original Pakistan proposal by the Muslim League. Most importantly, after communal riot in Bihar, M A Jinnah requested the Government of India to carry out population exchange as early as possible. But it could not be undertaken due to staunch opposition of M K Gandhi, particularly because there were large number of Muslims scattered all over India. He termed it an absurd and impractical proposal, for the sake his of politics of Muslim appeasement.
Viceroy Louis Mountbatten, the then Governor General of India, Dr B R Ambedkar and many other nationalist leaders of the Congress Party were staunch supporter of the said population exchange and advised Jawaharlal Nehru to carry out the same without delay. But Nehru submitted to Gandhi’s will. As a result, except for those who willingly migrated, a large number of Muslims happily stayed back in India, while a much smaller of Hindus stayed behind in Islamic Pakistan. Nonetheless, most of the Hindus who stayed back were gradually kicked out of Pakistan over the years. It is needless to say that had the said population exchange been carried out, many of India’s major problems of today would have been averted. Firstly, the politics of Muslim appeasement would not have arisen in today’s India and secondly, there would not have any need to appoint the Sachar Committee to asses the social, educational and other conditions of Muslims.

M K Gandhi, the prophet of nonviolence, was indeed the father of politics of Muslim appeasement in India, as will be reveled in following examples. It is well known that whenever the Muslims attack a Hindu settlement, they, in addition to killing, looting and setting their houses on fire, rape the Hindu women. Gandhi’s appeasement of these horror acts of Muslims was simply mindless. In the 6 July 1926 edition of Navajivan, Gandhi wrote that “He would kiss the feet of the (Muslim) violator of the modesty of a sister” (Mahatma Gandhi, D Keer, Popular Prakashan, p. 473). As Muslims began raping the Hindu and Sikh women in large numbers in the course of the partition, Gandhi advised that if a Muslim expressed his desire to rape a Hindu or a Sikh lady, she should never refuse, but cooperate with him. She should lie down like a dead with her tongue in between her teeth. Thus the rapist Muslim would be satisfied soon and leave her. (D Lapierre and L Collins, Freedom at Midnight, p. 479).

Being the most trusted and loyal stooge of the British Empire, it was not possible for Gandhi to demand India’s independence and to hoodwink the common people, he imported a vague and mysterious concept called swaraj (self-rule), for which he was fighting. And Hindu-Muslim amity was the most fundamental precondition for his swaraj. And the so-called Hindu-Muslim amity, his mindless Muslim appeasement became indispensable. Hindus were supposed to make every sacrifice and endure all the oppressions and heinous crimes of Muslims without protest for the sake of Hindu-Muslim amity. The legacy of this Gandhian politics of Muslim appeasement is now, under the garb of secularism, is being carried forward by the Congress Party.

Muslims Trail in Education, Employment and Land Holdings

From this discussion, it becomes evident that the Muslims have no legal, moral and ethical right to stay in India. They should have immediately shifted to Pakistan, the Muslim homeland they created in 1947 at the cost of immense bloodshed. Obviously, it is the generosity and liberality of Hindus that allowed them to live on in India. Yet, they have little sympathy or respect for India. Instead, being led by the jihadi teachings of the Koran, they are preparing themselves to conquer India for Islam and turn it into a dar-ul-Islam as soon as possible. We have seen above, how this jihadi mentality and their reluctance to join co-operate with the mainstream Indians is pulling them from behind in the race of progress and advancement. India is progressing, Hindus and all other non-Muslim communities of India are progressing, while Muslims—handicapped by their Islam, Allah and Koran—are trailing behind all other communities.

It has been pointed out earlier that Muslims trail behind, not only the Hindus categorized under Scheduled Caste (SC) and Scheduled Tribe (ST), but also the Hindus coming under the category of Other Backward Castes (OBCs), the lowest stratum among the Hindus in education. So, it becomes evident that Muslims as a community are trailing in education behind the most backward group amongst Hindus.

The Sachar Committee Report has revealed that they also significantly trail behind the OBCs Hindus in other features: in the board education, employment, poverty level and land holdings. It should be mentioned here that like Hindu OBCs, most backward Muslims are also categorized as Muslim OBCs (for example Noniya, Dhuniya, Chirimar, Bhistis etc). Moreover, these OBCs Muslims constitute nearly a half of the Muslim population (although this share is disputed one). The Sachar Committee has disclosed that these OBCs Muslims are worse off than the Hindu OBCs. The Table I below shows the plight of Muslims in general and the Muslim OBCs in the above fields:

——————————————————————————–

Table- I

Matriculation Graduates & Above Workers Formal Sector Poverty Land holdings
Hindu OBCs -5% -30% + 5% -15% -10% +20%
Muslim (Gen) -20% -40% -15% -60% +30% -40%
Muslim OBCs -40% -60% -20% -80% +40% -60%

——————————————————————————–

The Table shows that up to the Matriculation level in education, the Hindu OBCs trail behind the national average by 5%, while the figure for Muslims in general and OBCs Muslim is 20% and 40% respectively. When it comes to education up to graduate level, the general and OBCs Muslims trail behind the national average by 40% and 60% respectively. In the field of employment in formal sectors, the general and OBCs Muslims trail behind the national average by the staggering 60% and 80% respectively. Even in land holdings, Muslims are far below the national average: general Muslims 40% and Muslim OBCs 60%, while the Hindu OBCs 20% above. Muslims score better only in poverty as the general and OBC Muslims are poorer by 30% and 40% respectively, than the national poverty level, while the Hindu OBCs are less poorer by 10%. That means the general and OBC Muslims are poorer by 40% and 50%, respectively, than the Hindu OBCs.

In Judiciary, Muslims are Invisible

According to experts, one of the key findings of the Sachar Committee is that, whether it is Education, Health, Transport, or Home, or virtually in all departments of the state governments, the share of Muslim employees is way below their share in the population. But arguably, in no other wing does this under-representation raise as many questions as in the state judiciary.

The “judiciary” for which the Sachar Committee asked for data includes officers at all levels, from Advocate Generals and District and Session Judges to Additional District and Session Judges, Chief Judicial Magistrates, Principal Judges, Munsifs, Public Prosecutors and even Group A, B, C & D employees in lower courts. These officers constitute the basic foundation of the justice-delivery system in the country. Public Prosecutors are lawyers representing the government, District and Session Judges hear both criminal and civil cases. The lower judiciary has a state-level examination and some get elevated to District Session Judges and Additional District Session Judges.

Data supplied by state governments themselves show that, just as in all government jobs, there is a glaring gap between the share of Muslims in the population and their share in judiciary jobs.
Ironically, in two states that have high Muslim population share, West Bengal (25.2%) and Assam (30.9%), the percentage of Muslim employees in key positions in the judiciary is barely 5% and 9.4% respectively. This is true in tune with West Bengal’s dismal overall Muslim employment data as well. The Table II below shows this dismal condition of employment of Muslims in state judiciaries:

——————————————————————————–

Table – II
% Muslim Share of Muslim District Session Chief Judicial Principal Public
Population Employees Judge Magistrate Judge Prosecutors

Jammu & Kashmir 66.9 48.3 n.a. n.a. 0 59.3
Assam 30.9 9.4 0 9.5 50.0 16.8
West Bengal 25.2 5.0 4.8 7.8 0 5.4
Kerala 24.7 12.3 n.a. n.a. n.a. n.a.
Uttar Pradesh 18.5 10.9 3.1 7.5 0 4.7
Jharkhand 13.8 8.4 2.9 0 0 0
Karnataka 12.2 4.0 0 3.4 20.0 n.a.
Uttaranchal 11.9 3.9 0 0 0 n.a.
Delhi 11.7 1.3 0 n.a. n.a. n.a.
Maharastra 10.6 8.1 2.3 8.2 0 6.4
Andhra Predesh 9.2 12.4 1.8 5.0 n.a. 3.1
Rajasthan 8.5 5.1 3.0 2.3 0 n.a.
Madhya Pradesh 6.3 6.0 7.2 6.9 8.3 n.a.
Orissa 2.1 1.5 1.4 0 0 n.a.
Chhattisgarh 1.9 6.9 4.2 4.3 0 n.a.

——————————————————————————–

The Table shows that, even in the state of Jammu & Kashmir, where Muslims constitute nearly 67% of population, only 48.3% of its employees in judiciary are Muslims. It also shows that, Andhra Pradesh and Chhattisgarh are the only states where the percentage of employees in its judiciary exceeds its share of population. In Andhra Pradesh, the share of Muslims in its population is 9.2%, while 12.4% employees in judiciary are Muslims. For Chhattiagarh, the figures are 1.9% and 6.9% respectively. Picture is gloomiest in Kerala, where Muslim employees in judiciary is merely 4.0%, while Muslims constitute 12.2% of its population.

While commenting on this aspect, a report in Indian Express says, “The overall figure of merely 7.85 Muslim employees in this crucial area in the 12 high-Muslim population states surveyed at this level is a problem, admit experts. Says jurist Fali Nariman; “It is not just in multi-cultural democracies like ours that people feel the need to be represented adequately. Even in Australia with far less diversity than India, for many years, people of Western Australia felt totally neglected as they had no representation in their highest court.”

http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.4.htm

KK Reply:
May 9th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

The Backwardness of the Muslims is Ubiquitous:

To brainwash the Muslims, the mullahs always say to them that in the entire world, only the contents of the Koran is the pure words of God and the Muslims are lucky to possess the most up to date message of God. But the question remains – Why the Muslims, despite having the pure as well as the latest message of God, are so backward? When my article “Influence of Prophet Muhammad and the Quran on Incest in Muslim Societies” appeared in http://www.islam-watch.org on 15 Feb, 2009, a reader raised this issue and commented, “If islam is so good , then why Muslims are so bad? Why Muslim countries are so backward and ignorant? Why they spawn, terrorists, pirates, criminals of all hues? Why is Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan ,Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Libya, Ethiopia, Egypt, Syria, etc so backward, violence-prone, oppressive, regressive , devoid of human values, lack of democracy or human rights? Surely these are countries with Muslims, not kafirs?”

“Muslims always are good at pointing fingers at others for all their failures and backwardness, and they are good at only one thing: lying through their teeth unabashedly! You have this so-called; Peace TV, founded by one moron Zakir Naik who drums away tirelessly that “Islam is the solution for all Humanity”. That’s a big lie. These people are far from solving their own problems but blaming the ‘kaffirs’ for all their ills, backwardness and ignorance that they have the temerity and arrogance to talk about “solutions for all Humanity.” If Islam is eradicated most of the problems of this world will automatically be solved and peace and sanity will be achieved,” he added.

Reader may recall that I have discussed the topic quite elaborately in an earlier article “Muslims: Shackled People Enslaved by the Koran (http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/Muslims-Enslaved-by-Koran-Islam.htm). In that article, I have also pointed out that to obtain a plausible reply to these questions a study by a committee of consisting of Arab intellectuals and scholars was appointed by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) in 2001, and the committee, led by Egyptian scholar Nader Fergani, carried out a year-long investigation and thorough analysis of the reasons of backwardness of the Arab world. The findings of the study, entitled “Arab Human Development Report 2002”, was published in the first week of July, 2002. Most of the authors concluded that, Islam was the ultimate culprit.

To estimate the performance of a country, the UN, for the past 10 or so years, is using the ‘Human Development Index’ (HDI) that includes life expectancy at birth, adult literacy rate, school enrolment as well as per capita income. Another index called ‘Alternative Human Development Index’ (AHDI) is also used that drops the per capita income from HDI, but includes additional factors like freedom of speech and similar fundamental rights enjoyed by the people, use of Internet, emissions of carbon dioxide and so on. In both indices, the Arab countries scored lower than almost all other countries in the world. Most of the authors of the said report commented that lack of personal freedom, freedom of speech, suppression of women were the major causes of the backwardness of the Muslims. In a nutshell, pervasive Islamization of the society has played havoc and is entirely responsible for stifling constructive Arab thought and progress. Though the above study was restricted within the Arab World, its conclusions are applicable to the Muslim community throughout the entire globe.

There are two main reasons that make the Muslims backward. Firstly, the Muslim community is being guided by the social laws ordained by Allah, through the Koran, nearly 1400 years ago. Meanwhile, the human society has immensely advanced during that period, but the Muslims discard all these advancements because all these advancements are based on laws, which are not divine but created by human beings, and hence inferior and unacceptable. So, it can be said that, though the Muslims are physically living in this modern world, mentally they are living in a world that existed 1400 years ago.

Secondly, the Koranic law that guided the Muslims, cannot be up dated. According to the Kalema Tamjid, the fourth Kalema of Islam, Muhammad was the foremost of all the Prophets Allah has so far sent to educate the people of this planet and, at the same time, he was the ultimate Prophet. It is not difficult to comprehend that, even if Allah wants to amend His laws, once He had ordained through the Koran, He will not be able to accomplish His mission for want of Prophets. This aspect of the Islamic doctrine invariably exposes that its God or Allah is horribly running short of wisdom and common sense. Even the kafirs preserve the right to up date their laws through amendment of their Constitutions, but Allah failed to foresee that such amendments of the Koranic laws might be necessary in future. Therefore, it is needless to say that Allah exposed His unlimited idiocy by His decision of not sending Prophets after Muhammad.

The Muslims of India are not outside the domain of Allah and His Koran. So it is natural that they would also be similar victims of Islamic backwardness. The Sachar Committee Report has unveiled the sad story of extreme backwardness among the Muslims of India.

The Indian Scenario:

After the present United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government, under the leadership of the Indian National Congress Party, came into power, the Prime Minister Mr Manmohan Singh appointed a high level committee on March 9, 2005, under the chairmanship of retired Supreme Court Judge Justice Rajinder Sachar, for preparation of a report on the social, economic and educational status of the Muslim community of India. Thie committee, commonly called the Sachar Committee, was comprised of seven members including four Muslims. Headed by Justice Rajinder Sachar, the other members were: Sayyid Hamid, Dr.T.K. Ooman, M.A. Basith, Dr.Akhtar Majeed, Dr.Abu Saleh Shariff and Dr.Rakesh Basant. Dr.Syed Zafar Mahmood was the civil servant appointed by the PM as Officer on Special Duty to the Committee.

The committee prepared a 403-page report that was tabled in Parliament on 30 November 2006 – 20 months after obtaining the terms of reference from the PMO. It has come-up with this report with suggestions and solutions to include and mainstream Indian Muslims. It is the first of its kind report and it suggests adoption of suitable mechanisms to ensure equity and equality of opportunity to Muslims in residential, work and educational spaces. According to Sachar Committee Report the status of Indian Muslims are below the conditions of Scheduled Castes and Tribes.

Quite a lot of discussions and debates are going on the Sachar Committee Report.. Follow-up actions are also being taken based on the recommendations of the Committee. P. Chidambaram, the then Finance Minister has launched a program for funding the Muslims under the name of National Minorities Development and Finance Corporation (NMDFC).

Demographic Pattern of India’s Muslims:

According to an estimate by the UN in 2008, nearly1627.61 million Muslims live in this planet. At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Muslim population in the undivided India was close to 30 million and grew rather slowly up to 1921 and later moderately, as did the overall population. Partition led to large-scale migration, and in 1961, well after the major Partition-linked migration had ended, India’s

Muslim population was enumerated at 47 million, about 10% of the total population of 439 million. The latest census, conducted in 2001, enumerated 138 million Muslims out of India’s total population of 1029 million. And, many believe, by 2006 it might have crossed 150 million. This amounts to an increase of 194%, just short of trebling, and much higher than the average increase of 134%. The Muslim population growth has been close to 30% in each of the four intercensal decades since 1961, with the latest decade showing a fall to a level just below 30%.

According to the Census Reports of 1981 and 1991, Muslim population, during 1991-2001 and 1981-1991, had increased by 21.5% and 23.9% respectively. While, for the majority Hindus, the population registered a fall from 32.9% to 29.5% during 1981 and 1991, and 22.7% to 19.9% during 1991 and 2001. Thus the annual growth rate of the Muslims has averaged 2.7% over the period 1961-2001, well above the national average of 2.1%. Hindus and Christians show marginally lower growth, 2.0 percent, Jains even lower, 1.8 percent, and Sikhs and Buddhists,
marginally higher, 2.2 percent.

So, according to the census report of 2001, Islam is India’s largest minority religion, with Muslims officially constituting 13.4% of the country’s population. However, unofficial estimates claim a far higher figure supposedly discounted in censuses. For instance, in an interview with a well circulated news paper of India The Hindu, Justice K.M. Yusuf, a retired Judge from Calcutta High Court and Chairman of West Bengal Minority Commission, has said that the real percentage of Muslims in India is at least 20%.

The largest concentrations-about 47% of all Muslims in India, according to the 2001 census–live in the 3 states of Uttar Pradesh (30.7 million,18.5%), West Bengal (20.2 million, 25%), and Bihar (13.7 million,16.5%). Muslims represent a majority of the local population only in Jammu and Kashmir (67% in 2001) and Lakshadweep (95%). High concentrations of Muslims are found in the eastern states of Assam (31%) and West Bengal (25%), and in the southern states of Kerala (24.7%) and Karnataka (12.2%). Muslims are generally more educated, urban, integrated and prosperous in the Western and Southern states of India than in the Northern and Eastern ones; and experts believe that this could be due to partition, when the more affluent and educated population migrated over the border, to Pakistan in the North and Bangladesh (then East Pakistan) in the East. India has the third largest Muslim population (after Indonesia and Pakistan) and also the second largest Shia Muslim population (after Iran) in the world.

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http://islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/sachar-backwardness-indian-muslims.htm