Novel shows

Lakme Fashion Week this time has Naeem Khan showing his collection on its runway. It had Bibhu Mohapatra doing the same last season. I must say these kinds of shows on Indian fashion week runways add on to the overall charm of fashion weeks and then give them a whole new perspective.

I say this as most of the fashion week shows these days have become somewhat monotonous. I don’t see the kind of drive that I had seen when fashion week started in India. I see empty seats on the buyers side as well as on the media side. I don’t even see packed halls any more. All these point towards one thing… that more interesting collection ought to be brought on fashion week runways.

When the situation is like this, such shows as Bibhu’s or Naeem’s bring in the fresh perspective on the runway. Last season I saw a packed hall filled with celebrities for Bibhu’s show and I am sure the same will happen for Naeem’s this season.

Season after season it is important for designers to reinvent themselves while following forecasts to be successful at fashion weeks. Else, half-packed halls and empty seats are bound to be the result. Then why showcase their collections in the first place? Well, that’s a question that need to be answered!

(2 votes, average: 3 out of 5)

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Posted by Vinod Nair on Saturday, March 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm
Filed under Fashion · Tagged Bibhu Mohapatra, hindustan times, Indian fashion week runways, Lakme Fashion Week, Naeem Khan, Tailor Talk, Vinod Nair

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Anonymous

Why is it so unpalatable for the national editors to accept that RSS had supported the Anna movement? How does a movement which gained massive support across the nation becomes tainted if it had RSS members supporting it? Are they too corrupt to morally back such a movement?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
You being an intelligent person, a self-introspection (Chintan-BaiThak!) would answer your own questions. There should be no need for anyone else to furnish explicit answers.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Mr.Tandon,
Ishwar has asked a very important question. Why does this movement become tainted if RSS supports its.
If you look at the records RSS is as communal as CONGRESS, as divisive as Sonia’s party…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Rajeev,

you are being blasphemous, calling the ultra secular congress, which has Digvinash as its general secretary as communal as the RSS. You should have rather said, the RSS is as secular as the congress and as divisive as the Muslim League. This is clearly your attempt at tearing the ’secular fabric’ of the nation, so assiduously woven by the great party, which, incidentally, also won the freedom from colonial rule. Vinod Sharma is only a ‘humble admirer’ of the party and its supreme leader, who also got duly elected.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Mr.Shenoy,
Congress is no better than Jamat-e-Islami or RSS or Muslim league. It has stayed in power by dividing Society. It was the first party that used casteist equations such as KHAM (in Gujarat) to stay in power. All parties whether communal, casteist or regionalists owe their ideological existence to Congress, the mother of all evils.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Rajeev

“Why does this movement become tainted if RSS supports it?”

It was Anna Hazare who rubbished Mohan Bhagwat’s claim of support and active participation. Anna and his team should answer as to why?

Yes, I agree, every party plays a communal and/or a caste and/or a regional card, but it is only the RSS that gets bracketed as a communal organisation and most others do not wish to touch it. Why is it so? Should the RSS and its supporters introspect or that is to be outsourced?

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Tandon,
RSS is just trying to take advantage of Anna’s movement.

“but it is only the RSS that gets bracketed as a communal organisation and most others do not wish to touch it. Why is it so? ”

The reasons can be many. One reason may be Congressi media (journos like Vinod) who shield congress from any communal taint. Let us not forget every journo (of Vinod’s generation and even after) has congressi upbringing. This is the major reason that RSS gets tainted but Congress is spared.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
A very recent example is riots in Bharatpur Rajasthan (ruled by Congress), 15 muslims were gunned down in and around mosque. The mosque was riddled with bullets. We did not see any condemnation by secular media other than routine reporting.
There were evidences that Congress leaders allowed matters to precipitate but congress high command did not even rebuke Gehlot.

Pro-Congress media keeps silent on Congress sponsored riots (one being 1984) and calls everyone else communalists to keep congress in power.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
1) RSS is just trying to take advantage of Anna’s movement.

Yes, but it landed up with egg on its face.

2) The reasons can be many, there are and not without reason. They are too well known to be repeated.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Tandon,
I agree with the first one and totally disagree with second one. More than 4-5 generations of Indians have congressi upbringing and that makes them very defensive of Congress.

You take any walk of life, you will find Congressis dominating it. The IAS/IPS cadres, govt. employees are either congressis or have congressi upbringing. All these NGO wallahs are pro-congress gangs who pretend to be voice of people. The NHRC itself is full of congressis..When Rahul blurted out inaccurate info. on Bhatta-Parsaul, NHRC intially did not agree but when it got dressing down by Congress, the WRC (women rights commission) fabricated a report to prove Rahul right.

The only way to get rid of all the malaise is by detoxifying this country of Congressism and then not allow other toxicants RSS or communists to pollute the national psyche.

Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Check out new thread
Anonymous

Vinodji

This vow of silence must be a tactical move by Anna Hazare, as we have seen that Arvind Kejriwal and Co. have been putting words in his mouth, much to his discomfort and embarrassment on issues which he may have different views or hasn’t given any thought to or against his grain of thinking. In most of the cases, he had to retract his statements and pronouncements or issue clarifications or say he was misquoted, etc. etc.

With the marginalization of various team members -Swami Agnivesh, Justice Santosh Hegde and now Prashant Bhushan and perhaps Bhushan Sr too, it has become clear that it is a one-man-show : Arivind Kejriwal – his way and no other. If one falls foul of him and out one goes.

Perhaps, Anna Hazare has also become wary of him. His “maun vrat” and dispatching his lieutenants to meet Rahul Gandhi on the 18th October are indications to the effect. Perhaps, he has also realized that to get things done one has to work with the system and not confront it.

[Reply]
Anonymous

@Mr Sharma,
You take umbarge ( display of sensitivity or displeasure ) on being labelled a unethical, dishonest congress propogandist.
But here is a sample of adjectives you have felt free to use against others in just this one blog.

Anna Hazare : self-professed Gandhian
Goons who attacked Bhushan : Violent right-wing reaction
Swami Agnivesh : unfairly branded a Congress Trojan Horse ( thanks for the humour)
Anna Hazare : a bit of a militarist, a la the RSS

I am sure I missed some.

Do you get the point ?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Mr.Sharma is just being loyal to Congress. He went on to become Amar Singh’s sidekick on Bhishan’s CD because he got over-excited and did not want to miss chance to defend Congress.

Other smart journos will get awarded Padam Shris etc. but our Sharma will have to contend with useless position in minority commission.

He should work harder to become SOLE congress mouthpiece on TV if he wants a Padam Shri tossed his way…He should wag his tail harder..

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Rajiv,
Mahesh posted in a previous blog that the entry barrier to Congress is very high.
You need a thick skin and even thicker skull.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
These are no barriers at all for some of our bloggers, because they are naturally and amply endowed with these required attributes.

you have to just read the posts to see how easily at least one of these has surmounted the barriers.

[Reply]
Vinod Sharma Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Rajiiv
You will agree in your moments of truth that there is disillusionment with Hazare and his team. Did you not hear the news that two of his core panel members have dissociated from his campaign today because of its political nature thanks to the likes of Kejriwal. Please also answer my question as to why Santosh Hegde is unhappy? Wasn’t he sidelined when he ruled against Yeddy?

[Reply]
Anonymous

Anna should make his views clear about Channu Sharmila, Human rights in
Kashmir, Salwa Judam and he should have opinion on Sanjiv Bhatt arrest and
release on bail . I was foolish to think that he was fighting against the corruption in India. Why not than journalists also
ask him about our foreign policy, defence policy, economics of India, trend
of stock market etc. As Aashihs has said in previous article that Anna is only
fighting against corruption and filed is open for others to take crusade against
other issues and leave Anna team to fight this battle.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Mohan,
I was away for a while .. will be gone again for sometme.
I did note Dr Khan’s response to my invitation to take up another cause- he said he was a busy man.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Anna is publicity monger .From very beginning he behaved hypocritically His only qualification is he can sustained hunger ten to twenty day. On this capital he is giving nuisance to Government.He always require some issues from any intelligent man he then ready to start a fast.He did not know the bit of Janlokpal bill to give nuisance he started fast .Today he heard Rahul Gnadhi is interested his work urgently he send three assistants to Delhi to meet him, just now news came Rahul never invited them. . From this story anyone can judge how he is publicity monger.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
“His ONLY qualification is he can sustained hunger ten to twenty day.”

This “ONLY” speaks volumes about your stand of Corruption.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:21 am
Read today`s newspaper how his assistants are fumbling in Delhi.Small hint is sufficient to Anna for dance on tune of politicians.He is hypocrical is proof of Rahul accident .

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Ramesh;
What else you are enjoying ? apart from fumblings of aides of Anna?

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Pankajji,
Typical desi attitude..Always pull down common man and hail the Queen.
Anonymous

This article is the first clear indication that the anti-Anna camp is suddenly seeing light at the long, dark tunnel. This camp has also come to believe that by driving a few more nails, Anna’s coffin can be sealed and mummified.

The trojan horse having failed miserably and got shamlessly exposed as a congress plant, now says Anna is supporting brahmanwaad, he is autocratic and is taking support from the RSS. Now Kejriwal seems to be the target. If he is dislodged, it is common sense that Anna’s team will suffer an innings defeat.

Vinod Sharma has admirably risen to the occasion and call of duty.

[Reply]
Vinod Sharma Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Has this gentleman called on his hero Yeddy in jail?

[Reply]
http://www.facebook.com/bappam Bappa Mukherjee

Vinodji,
You said on Nidhi Razdan’s show Left, Righ & Centre that the only way Team Anna’s intervention in the Hissar bye-election would be considered meaningful if the Congress candidate lost his deposit. Now that this has happened, what do you have to say?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Loss of Memory laced with anger towards Anna…is what is Vinod’s reaction.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:39 am
It is the dumbest thing to say.

[Reply]
Vinod Sharma Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@Bappa Mukherjee
I stand by what I said. In retrospect it seems the campaign has to some extent worked against the Congress. Jai Prakash got 1.40 Lakh votes but yet his lost deposit as the polling was high.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Hisar, Khadakvasla, Daraundha and Banswada are tight slap on face of Congress and its corrupt supporter.
Karnataka BJP should take lesson from this else face same kind of slap.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Rajeev,

you seem to forget that the BJP won the latest bye election to the Koppal constituency. Besides, it had won all the three in April too. All these results came when Yeddy was already a liability for the party and was on his way out.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Hisar By-Poll: Bishnoi Wins, Cong Forfeits Deposit

So what ? No one can put stop to the ‘bay-sharmi’ and ‘convoluted-lies’ that Congress propogandists are capable of.

The scams have yielded enough funds for all Congress candidates ‘jamanat-japt’ for 100 years and more.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Rajeev

A) “The only way to get rid of all the malaise is by detoxifying this country of Congressism and then not allow other toxicants RSS or communists to pollute the national psyche”.

There cannot be a vacuum – who and what is supposed to replace this Congressism?

.B) “You take any walk of life, you will find Congressis dominating it. The IAS/IPS cadres, govt. employees are either congressis or have congressi upbringing. All these NGO wallahs are pro-congress gangs who pretend to be voice of people. The NHRC itself is full of congressis.”

All cannot be foolish. There must be some merit in what this Congress Party stands for.

Also was this culture forced down their throats or was it personal choices?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
A) What is the need for any ‘ism’? Everyone should start thinking about thing that really matter in life such as Roti-Kapda-Makaan-Sadak-Paani-Bijli-School etc. This affinity to ‘ism’ has kept us in this state for too long. We need Development and that should only be the ‘ism’ after 63 years..enough of hindutava, gandhism, marxism, islamism etc.

B) When Hitler was in power in Germany, he had majority support as most of the people were either Nazis or supporter of Nazism. Do you mean to say all of them were smart people? When someone is fed propaganda for decades, he starts to believe it. Same is true with imposed Congressism on us. Most of us who are product of Indian school system don’t know anything beyond Gandhi-Nehru, some in their coterie and then Nehru Gandhi dynasty. You are underestimating the power of propaganda which Congress has used smartly using various avenues historians and media being the most important. Do you remember the day when DD used to solely concentrate on antics of Rajiv Gandhi and then people who got fed up of Rajiv’s ‘Hum dekhenge’ started calling DD Rajiv Darshan.

It is time we move on from Congressism and worry more about tangiable things such as development.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:22 am
Rajeev

What you are advocating has been discussed (between Gopi, Ashish, Mahesh, myself and perhaps others too) some blogs earlier, where in it was suggested that there should less macro governance at the centre and more governance at the village/town/city and taluka level.

Maybe, earlier people may have been dumb. Not anymore – good governance is acknowledged and parties are returned to power, people also know who is blowing one’s trumpet and who is not – separating the wheat from the chaffe.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Rajeev,

when Manohar chooses to respond to you, you must please have copies of hisposts in the last four blogs, so that you will get a glimpse of his “thinking” and some idea about the import of what he implies.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 17th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Now that UP and Bihar has been de-congressised for 2 decades now, you don’t see them supporting Congress. Same thing is going to happen in other states.. Tamil Nadu is the perfect example where people have discarded Congressism because they were given regional alternative.

Congress is a regressive force that has held India back for far too long. What we need is fresh crop of people who are devoted to uplifting 70% of India that is still in dire poverty thanks to Congress and its offsprings.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:45 am
I am talking about the vacuum at the centre.

What can these regional and caste based outfits bring to the table? Not much, except to further their own case, nation be damned.

Going by the past experience, it is sure recipe for instability. Even the Janta Party in 1977 was peopled by persons of various ideologies/interests, wearing a common uniform on the outside. It did not last long, in spite of the fact of the towering presence of Jai Prakash Narayan.

The third-fronts and fourth-fronts turned out to be even more brittle.

Other than “roti, kapda aur makan”, the voter also looks for stability.

In the earlier blog, I had agreed with you and had said that we do not have any better and creditable alternatives.

Do you have a plan / road map and the time frame as to how the present rot can be replaced?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Tandonji,
May be this vaccum will cleanse out politics and public life. I won’t mind a brief period of Anarchy if it leads to cleaning up the system. The corrupt people like Lalu, paswan, Sonia, Yeddy, Chidu, Nishank etc. needs to be weaned out of system.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
I do not agree. There cannot be a vacuum for even short period of time – say not even an hour. At the time of independence, one of the first acts of the independent India was to swear in the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

Anarchy has never solved any problem. For example, from what I have read – the Jasmine Revolution in Egypt is tottering (you can correct me on that) – may be something good will come out of it – I am not so sure.
Anonymous

One of your better articles Vinodji. BUT I THOUGHT A GROUP OF CRUSADERS HAVING INDEPENDENT OPINIONS= about Kashmir, Salwa jadum etc =was a healthy sign of ddemocracy.
Did Gandhi, Nehru, Bose, Ambedkar, Sardar Patel all agree on everything ? Kejriwal, Bhushan, Anna, Kiran, , Hegde, they all bring different strengths to the table. Main koi galat boliya??
More important the maun vrat of our star bloggers like Mishraji, Gopi, Shoeb, Vinay is perplexing. Dr mishra, sir hope you did not mind my joke on u and ashish eating humble pie hehe. Pl come back sirji, u really know how to ignite debate

[Reply]
Ramesh Talwani

MR .SHARMA,AT YOUR AGE ,I FIND YOU PARROTING ,WHO SAID WHAT AND MAKING A STORY.
IF YOU CONSIDER SUCH QUOTES AS JOURNALISM ,I FIND YOUR WRITING DISGUSTING.
INDIA WAS RULED BY TURKS ,MUGHALS ETC BY SWORD.
BRITISHERS RULED US THRU MENTAL SLAVES LOOKING FOR BENEFITS FROM MASTERS.
I WILL LOVE TO SEE AN ARTICLE WITH INDEPENDENT VIEWS WHICH WILL MAKE YOUR CONSCIENCE PROUD OR YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOURSELF.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1

@ everyone.
Got high regards for Congress. Equally, got high regards for RSS. where I have my contempt is extreme position of both right and so called secular forces. My heighest regards are for nationalists, who say, India and Indian interests are supreme. Khujli to bahut ho rahi hai, par roti ka bhi sawal hai. I am( alse) not in higher category, who can sacrifice everything. ( Blame my woti, sorry to say this and me partially.)

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:53 am
“Got high regards for Congress. Equally, got high regards for RSS.”

It looks like you are a Satan worshipper

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Rajeev;
Think what is wrong with Satan? Just because of Satan, God is distingushable, had there been no Satan, I am sure, there would have been no God. What Ravan did wrong ? Just avenging his sister. What did Duryodhan do wrong,he was just trying to save his kingdom and avenging initial insult from Draupadi. Evey character has many facets and you can find good, even in a worst character. Ha Ha

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
I was just trying out western mindset where there is only black and white…NO GREY.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:40 am
Pankaj

I can see the dilemma you are in.

My apologies, if I sound patronizing.

Debate the issues and not personalities, per se, with an open mind. Call a spade a spade. Drive out all the “holy cows” from the shed. No one is without warts.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Thanks Manohar;
I have never discussed personalities. Congress of yore was a great party but now it looks that free booters have infiltrated in quite some numbers in both principal parties and just to strengthen their number in parliament are ready to compromise with every principle. That is my sorrow.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I agree, Pankaj.

What is the alternative?

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:40 am
Pankaj

I can see the dilemma you are in.

My apologies, if I sound patronizing.

Debate the issues and not personalities, per se, with an open mind. Call a spade a spade. Drive out all the “holy cows” from the shed. No one is without warts.

[Reply]
Anonymous

=====================================================================
~~As per Congressis– ANNA WOULD BE GOOD IF HE SAYS RAHUL MAI -BAP ~~
=====================================================================

The general thrust of all COngressi chamchas is same.

If Anna saya “Rahul is good , handsome, genius of Nehru and Einstein combined” Anna would be acceptable.

If Anna says, “Digvijay is God, Sonia is MOther India” Anna would be loved.

Otherwise Vindoji and his brigade will use all means to tar anybody who wants to remove corruption and the corrupt…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:26 am
Anna has invited Rahul to visit his village-News.

Anna has started liking Rahul.

Anna has just found that both he and Rahul suffer from the same disease:
FOOT IN THE MOUTH.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 8:43 am
And how discomforting for Shenoy, who must be squirming.

For Shenoy, until yesterday, Anna was a hero, who challenged his (Shenoy’s) enemies and objects of hate and today he has become a …………..(take your pick). Fickle minded, anyone?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:48 am
@ Vijay

I think you have hit the hammer on the COngress head. They are trying two strategies.

a) To make Anna bend by setting the government agencies and Digvijay SIngh team after him

b) Or get him to bow before Rahul or make him feel that the PM empathises with him.

In the end the COngress does not seem to want corruption to end.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
You got that right but there is much bigger picture. See my new post.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:50 am
@ Manohar

I think the real issue is about removing corruption. There is no point in forgetting the bigger issue and getting lost in what SHenoy said about Anna.

We need to come out of our prefixed seats and use this as an opportunity, rather than let the COngress derail the whole thing…

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Sanjay

I was only commenting upon Shenoy’s discomfort which is clearly visible by his post.

You should look at your own prefixed seat – your premise is that the Congress out to derail the whole thing (?????) – if it is so,people will see through it.

Please take the trouble of re-reading my posts – I always debates issues and events and not personalities. I call spade a spade, which cannot be said of many of the bloggers here, who carry their holy cows on their shoulders.

.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Sanjay,

the real issue is that the congress party is losing it and it shows in the spate of humiliating results.
The real issue is also that it is out to destroy Anna’s team and his movement with able help from willing editors like Vinod Sharma.

But real issues be damned, if he can get his comment in, even sideways, like: “you are pathetic, your discomfort is seen in your comment” etc.

And he claims to debate issues and not personalities!!!!

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 10:41 am
Manohar,

in your blind hatred for Anna and those who believe in his movement, you forget that as an Individual, Anna is not infallible, just as Gandhiji was not. If you remember, though Nehru was gandhiji’s chosen heir to the nation’s gaddi, Nehru bid good bye to all that Gandhiji stood for, including prominence for village industries, prohibition, khadi etc.

If Anna is fallible it by no stretch of imagination means that his movement too is bogus, which you have been propagating all these last few weeks.

If I hold Anna and his movement in very high esteem, it doesn’t mean that I have lost my right to call attention to some of his weaknesses, which are always highlighted by our media.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Ah! You will never get it.

My post was in response to your comment, nothing more.

I have no blind spots – so no blind hatred, because I debate issues and not personalities.

Your post shows your real discomfort (you may or may not agree), because in your book it seems one of the rules is

My enemy’s enemy is my friend and my enemy’s friend is my enemy.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Too many ‘I’s, deleterious to good health and likely to lead to bloating of the head.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
There you go again – instead of debating the issue, you choose to get personal.

In any case, you worry about your own mental health, not mine as it is none of your business.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:53 am
@ Shenoy

Anna will pull the rug under Rahul. While Rahul will pull the rug under Anna…

I think Anna is too smart to fall for Rahul’s selfish overtures.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Sufi muslims are the answers to political Islamists who want to grab power from back door. These sufi muslims are perfect ally for truly secular hindus. It is time hindus marginalize hindutva nuts and muslims marginalize Deobandi/Wahabi nuts.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Sufi-clerics-issue-call-to-reject-hardline-Wahabis/articleshow/10394315.cms

Sufi clerics issue call to reject hardline Wahabis

NEW DELHI: A prominent organization of Sunni clerics has urged Muslims to reject hardline Wahabi Islam, which it said was giving the community a bad name, and called for limiting the influence of Saudi Arabia, which it blamed for meddling in the affairs of Indian Muslims by pumping in petro-dollars.

At a mahapanchayat in Moradabad, UP, the All India Ulama and Mashaikh Board (AIUMB), which claims the support of a majority of Indian Muslims, rooted for Sufi traditions of Islam propagating tolerance and harmony.

“About 100 years ago, Sunni Muslims in India had rejected the Wahabis. After Independence, however, the Wahabis expanded their influence through political backing. While we remained away from government and politics, Wahabis gained control over institutions dealing with minority affairs, including the wakf board and the Muslim Personal Law Board,” said AIUMB general secretary Syed Mohammed Ashraf Kachochavi at Sunday’s meet.

AIUMB spokesperson Syed Babar Ashraf said 80% of Indian Muslims followed the Sunni Sufi tradition while Wahabis wielded control over just 13-14% of the community. “But a large section of the Urdu press has boycotted us. They are controlled by hardliners,” Ashraf said.

He said Wahabi-inspired outfits like Deoband, Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind and Ahl-e-Hadees were importing a “foreign ideology” into India. “They are funded by petro-dollars and aim to grab political power,” Ashraf said.

AIUMB urged the Centre to set up a central madrasa board, including a member of each Sufi ’silsila’ (order) in India and one from Shias or Bohras. The funding of madrasas should be audited to check the influx of Saudi petro-dollars, it said.

AIUMB leaders claimed Wahabi-inspired outfits were feeding on the frustration of Muslims and indoctrinating them in radical Islam. “Muslims should be careful about such anti-national activities in the name of religion. If they find any extremist exhorting them to terrorism, they should immediately hand over the person to police,” said Kachochavi.

Unlike the Sufis, Wahabis are against praying at dargahs (shrines) and graves and many of the cultural practices embedded in South Asian Islamic traditions. “Millions of Muslims visit the Prophet’s shrine at Madina every year. Muslims are following the Prophet when they pray at dargahs. Why should it be un-Islamic?” asked Hazrat Shahid Mian Chishti, dargah-in-charge of Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti’s dargah at Ajmer.

AIUMB also released a memorandum urging the external affairs ministry to ask the Saudi Arabian government to stop “destroying historical places and preserve sites associated with the Prophet, his family and his Sahabas (companions)”.

Arshad Alam, assistant professor, Jamia Millia Islamia University said, “This movement is articulating the ethnic roots of Islam in India. It’s not just about a religious identity but placing this identity in the national context.”

Alam, author of the book, ‘Inside a Madarsa’, said Deobandis aspire to an Arabian model of Islam which obliterates the ethnic identity of Indian Muslims.

Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, however, didn’t accept the presence of Wahabi-inspired hardliners in India. “At best you can call them mild fundamentalists. Muslims can’t afford to be radical in India. About 95% of Indian Muslims had Hindu ancestors. So Hindu culture dominates India, the basis of which is tolerance. For extremism to flourish, you need a Muslim-majority country like Pakistan,” he said.

The AIUMB plans to hold mahapanchayats and Sunni conferences to spread their message every six months. They have held such programmes at Bhagalpur, Bihar, and West Bengal.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:53 am
This was overdue and is to be welcomed. Better late than never.

I hope the community will have learnt its lessons – promoting one’s religious identity over one’s human and/or national or even ethnic identity does not pay, on the contrary one has to pay a very heavy price. Religious beliefs and practices must be confined to the four walls of one’s home or a place of worship.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 6:31 am
Manohar,

Religious beleifs and practices must be confined
to the four walls of one’s home only. Places of worship
should be used for other better purposes.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 8:12 am
Mohan

I am not at all a religious person (all that rituals, blah, blah, blah – I do not give a damn about them), but I would not object to even places of worships – helps in bonding, sense of belonging, social interaction among people, etc. Moreover, if the rituals there give people – peace of mind, satisfaction and they think that their lives are better because of them, so be it, there is no problem. Think of them as clubs / community centres / picnic spots and should be open to all.

There are scores of shrines (belonging to some faith) all over India, where people from all religious faiths go there for “mannats” for betterment of their lives. I have no problem with that. Everyone is not as rational as you and me think we are.

Having said that these places of worship must not be allowed to become centres of spreading hatred / discord among the people.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 6:19 am
If what Vastanvi’s fate is any guide, this is going to be a non-starter.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 10:58 am
wahabism is like brhmnsm created by zoinists to destablize societies.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Anna has said that if Congress (Sonia) passes Jan Lokpal Bill then he will prostate in front of Sonia and Rahul and work for them. Not even one journalist found it objectionable. Same journos went beserk when Mad congressmen were associating Anna with RSS.
Why is pro-congress stand appreciated but pro-BJP not? Is this not a proof that media is Congressi in its culture and ideology?

[Reply]
Anonymous

Has Sanjiv Bhatt started imagining that he is no more in the service but an important Congress leader of Gujarat. Does he not know that bail is constuctive custody of the Court .Are there none amongst his friends in the IPS Asscn of Gujarat to tell him that his statement that “Modi is a common criminal” is an invitation to strict disciplinary action. Or that now that he enjoys the “concern” of the Government of India and its Home Minister , so he shall enjoy immunity from the Service Rules and the Police Manual. Ofcourse the Congress Party shall not tell him so because it is its own gameplan and aspires to make him its mascot in Gujarat, the Vaghelas and the Modhvadias and the veterans all reduced to nobodys.
What if an Officer of the CPMFs or an official of the Home Ministry was to say publically that the Union Home Minister is corrupt and he made money in the 2 G scam? Shall not such a officer face the strictest diciplinary action?
….Those who find Anna’s Maun eloquent should also ponder about the Maun of the official backers and protectors of Sanjiv Bhatt.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:38 am
Praveen Saxenaji,

The ultra-secular Bhat’s bail has attracted world wide comments, a sample of which are here:

Salman Khurshid: this shows that whatever the pressure, the Indian judiciary is idependent. I congratulate Shri Bhat.

Bhat: The judge has upheld my appeal that my life is not safe inside Modi’s prison and I may be killed anytime soon.

Teesta Setalvad (before Bhat’s release) Nobody’s life is safe in Modi’s Gujarat (outside his prisons).

Ayatollah Khameini: Bhat’s release is good news for all those who value freedom of expression and secularism.

Pope: I admire Indian democracy, which respects and lives side by side with dynasties.

Chidambaram: I congratulate Bhat. I wish Krishnaji, the Maoist leader, too was arrested and put in Modi’s jail. He would have been alive and free by now.

Rahul Gandhi in US ambassador’s ears: Dear Ambassador, as I have told you often, Modi is more dangerous to India than the LeT, JuD, Taliban all put together.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 9:58 am
Shenoy Saab

You forgot one quote
The Political Editor of HT – Sanjiv Bhatt is the last hope for plucking the Lotus from Gujarat.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Digviansh Singh in Rahul’s ears, “kya ab main anti-corruption ko phir attack karon…?”

[Reply]
Anonymous

Wah Sardarji Waw maan gaye aapko

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/india/100-year-old-marathoner-finishes-toronto-race-1.897279

[Reply]
Anonymous

Your comment is in extremely bad taste. I have never approved of his methods and tactics You can debate his methods and tactics, demolish his statements, etc., but there is no need to get personal. Is 7th class pass truck driver not a human being? He has as much right as you to voice his opinion and take any action – as long as he does not break any law of the land and does not harm others.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Sandeep,

Vinodji might well say that it is not their job to reform society. The fact is that many senior editors were busy making and unmaking ministries, ministers and other kind of deals with the likes of Nira Radia. Some editors were busy discrediting team Anna with fake CDs.

When nothing worked with the millions who supported Anna, now this politico-journo combine is busy splitting the anti-corruption movement.

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================~~~ ANNA BECOMES INDIAN OF THE YEAR— On NDTV ~~~~~~
==============================================================

Life is funny. On one side NDTV and Hindustan Times are doing there best to derail the Anna movement.

On the other, the NDTV poll has chosen Anna as the Indian of the year….

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Congress’s proxy NDTV is trying to buy Anna and his team..Remember NDTV’s Barkha’s role in 2G (Radia tapes). These pro-congress TV channels work overtime to promote Dynasty and Congress.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@ Rajeev

Maybe u r right. Paise ke liye kuch bhi karega…

Or maybe it is the paisa of TRP ratings…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Vijay Kumar,

the order for the selection must have come directly from 10 Janpath. I remember, in the film “From Russia With Love”, the Russian chess player was asked to lose the game to his American opponent, even though he was winning.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Vijay,
I think all these Padam awards and other awards are being used as bribe to buy loyalty. BJP too did this and Congress has done it for 63 years directly and indirectly thru proxies (NDTV, IBN etc.).
It is sad state of affairs.

As for media, for common people, it acts as eyes and ears of common people. If both eyes and ears are compromised, people will never know the truth. The journalism is not only a profession but also a social service. In my understanding journalism should be for benefit of common people not for benefitting political parties, corporates and other interest groups. There is an urgent need to detoxify media but with people like Vinod Sharma, Chandan Mitra, Vinod Dua, Vinod Mehta, Prannoy Roy, Barkha rani, Vir, N.Ram etc., I don’t see any hope because most of these journos are ideologically committed to some particular parties.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Rajeev,

There is nothing wrong in journalists being sympathetic to one ideology or the other. The problem arises when one voices his/her opinion without disclosing their loyality.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
100% agree. There is no harm in disclosing political leaning..After all even journalist are human..but the ideal behavior expected from Journalist is neutrality.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
It’s no fun watching a match as a neutral. To enjoy it, you have to support someone and as they say – the fun increases if there is money involved.

It’s no different here.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
The people in Armed forces are mostly politically neutral so it is not difficult for media to be neutral and objective. The problem is greed.
Anonymous

You should know Akbar the great and Mohammad too were illiterate. The education has got nothing to do with personal conduct.

[Reply]
Anonymous

A) My understanding of Anna’s team
I have been thinking about Anna’s movement and his team and their constant overuse of tongue. I feel Anna’s team has very diverse elements who will part ways as soon as Jan Lokpal is done. Here is the composition of Anna’s team-
1. Anna – Gandhian Showman and a Congressi. He has said that he will WORK FOR CONGRESS if they give him Jan Lokpal. Why should ‘HE WORK FOR CONGRESS’? No one has objected to this statement. His use of Bharat Mata first and then Mahatma Gandhi’s pictures show that he is ideologically confused but at heart he believes in Congressism.

2. Arvind Kejriwal – Very committed to Jan Lokpal and is not averse to working with Right. This is the reason he is perhaps the most hated member of the team.

3. Kiran Bedi – Over-excited well-intentioned but motor mouth. She seems to be anti-congress (may be because of her experience) and kind of sympathetic to BJP.

4. Justice Hegde – He is basically an inactive member who reacts more with media than within his own team. He too seems to be sympathetic to Congress.

5. Prashant Bhushan – He is committed to jan lokpal but he has other agendas too which are not acceptable to any of his team members. He is Arundhati’s man in team who will finally use this platform to make noises for Maoists and Islamic terrorists (especially from Kashmir). Basically a radical leftist.

6. Shanti Bhushan – Anti-Congress for sure..nothing more than that.

7. Swami Agnivesh (ex-member) – This guy was the Congress’s trojan horse in Anna’s team. A total disgrace. Good riddance.

B) How this movement is going to end?
Looking at latest utterances of Anna, it looks like Congress is working with Anna’s thru back channels (ex. Thomas visit to Ralegaon Siddhi and subsequent Rahul meeting drama). The deal may be that Congress will get a compromise Jan Lokpal bill passed in next winter session but will like Anna to give all the CREDIT to Prince Rahul so that they can encash it in 2012 UP elections. Once congress does well in UP election because of new feather in its hat (Jan Lokpal), it will use same card in other elections. Anna may work fulltime to promote Congress..and when this is happening Kejriwal will fall wayside, sulking, Kiran Bedi too will part ways and may be seen in the company of Advani. Prashant will go back to his favorite passtime of abusing India on Kashmir and Maoist insurgency. Justice Hegde might stick with Anna, indirectly working for Congress. Swami Agnivesh may be rewarded with some Padam-Bhushan by congress for his services.
Vinod Sharma will write praises for Anna and will express gratitude for his work towards promoting Congress. NDTV will again bestow Indian of the year award to Anna. Anna will be bought by Congress and media but not by money but showering glory on him.

As for BJP, it will go around showing how it was behind Anna’s movement..It will be too late..They will return to opposition in 2014. During this time some of hindu right wing members will be convicted of terrorism thus putting a permanent terror mark on RSS.

The biggest news will be that DIggi will enter 2014 cabinet as Home Minister.

India deserves this…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Rajeev, the oracle.

Anna’s team is already breaking up, if the latest reports are to be believed, Rajagopal and Rajinder Singh, the waterman ( http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1817/18170810.htm ), are dissociating themselves from it. Looks like Arvind Kejriwal will be left alone holding the baby.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
I can see the glee in your eyes as u write this.

Just to remind you the score in the recent by-polls was 0-4 for Congress.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
What else can you see?

1) Hissar – Congress had no chance at all to begin with – Jai Prakash was third in 2009 and so too yesterday – this time he lost his deposit. Your beloved BJP could not find a candidate to fight the election – any comment on that.

2) Bihar – Nitish Kumar routed the Congress and others last year (it was a massacre) , so too yesterday. He is going great guns.

3) Andhra Pradesh – the same person who had won the election earlier on TDP ticket and then resigned, fought this time on TRS ticket and won.

4) Maharashtra – the seat was held by MNS earlier and the NCP tried to cash it by fielding the wife of the deceased MLA. Did not work.

So what else is new? These seats were never the strongholds of the Congress in the first place. Of course, you and others have all the rights to celebrate 0-4 loss for the Congress. One should not prevent others from celebrating whatever they feel is worth celebrating. Now I can see the glee in your eyes.

I do not agree wholly with the predictions made by the oracle above. It was fun reading it. I may comment about them later.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Manohar,

Dont get blinded by the gora chitta complexion of Rahul. Many people I have talked to and are enamoured of him are because honestly speaking, becasue fo his gora rang.

Incase he was dark skinned (like me ) … maybe you would have second thoughts !

but seriously speakign why dont you ask the Congressis to make Rahul a junior Minister,,, say civil supplies or transport or health just to shoow his mythical prowress??

I mean in case you need surgery for your heart, would you go to an experieced doctor or would you go to a fresher??

Answer this honestly….

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Vijay

Sorry to say this – you and especially your “guru” – Shenoy (he is a limit) either do not (or not wish to) read what I write or unable to understand. Damn it, I always write in simple English.

Go back to the previous blog – as see under Dr. Khan’s post – I have clearly said that he is not competent enough to hold the post of the Prime Minister. How can I it make simpler than that, so that you understand it – tell me.

If your memory does not fail you, see what I have written about Rahul Gandhi in earlier blogs – you can always go back and check. My prediction has been that he will not opt to be the PM (provided the Congress has the numbers) for the next 20 years or so. I may be right or wrong.

As Dr. Khan has rightly pointed you and your fellow travellers are paranoid about Rahul Gandhi. I know the reason for it.

It has also never occurred to you and as such you will never appreciate it – being an object of your hate that if he wanted he could have become the Prime Minister anytime since 2004 (nearly 8 years today). He has chosen not to become even a Minister either. Have you bothered to find out or think about it? Does not seems so, because to you and your ilk, he is the “greatest joke” and a “calamity” to fall on India. I have no problem with your views and your nightmares. Enjoy yourselves.

If you wish to know, the reason he has not chosen to become even a Minister, because he does not want to be the second power centre in the cabinet in addition to the Prime Minister, given the sycophancy of the Congressmen. He is far more intelligent and realistic than you are prepared to give him credit for – given your mindset, it is not surprising. Keep bashing him and have a good time. I have no problem with that too either.

You must be out of your mind to even suggest that I am enamoured by him because of the colour of his skin or for that matter any other reason. As I said at the start, you do not wish to read what I write or do not understand it or choose to draw your own conclusions and opinions (seems Shenoy* has trained you very well), bereft of any logic or background. If it gives you any pleasure in doing so, be my guest.

* A couple of posts earlier, this “great guru” declares that I am full of hatred towards Anna Hazare. To make it simple for you, let me state in plain English – I am opposed to Anna’s movement and have all the sympathy for Anna being taken for a ride by Arvind Kejriwal & Co. and this “master” of yours concludes that I hate Anna. To call Shenoy names would be insulting the others in the same category. I wish you could put some sense in his head.

My sincere apologies if this has hurt you, but I had no choice given the content of your post addressed to me.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@ Manohar

I dont get into slanging matches. At times I deliberately make provocative staements to dig out the basic reasons.

In case of Rahul, the various reasons given for his suitability for the PM’s seat are

a) Rightful inheritor to the crown. Are we a fuedal dictatorship that we need a rightful heir?

b) Charismatic. Now what is the charisma based on? Youth (he is forty one.. so middle aged now) Color (yes we Indians adore fair color) Looks ( ok he is fairly decent looking… but then Sachin Pilot and Jyoti look better)

But there is something so unfair and silly about this talk on gen next taking over. Pap and Mama give the baton to the son. Great for democracy. new Gen has come…

c) he is clean. Is he? how is he living well without known sources of income?
What about DLF and Vadra?

I was trying to dig out your reason for adoring rahul. Anyway I think you reacted to strongly ! I am a good reader by nature and do read before replying. As a part time fiction writer…. I do love to toss up issues in a provocative way to dig out the subconscious thought inside the person…

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Vijay

I appreciate your positive attitude to my post. That is what civilised debate is all about. Cannot say the same about some others here.

Being a part time fiction writer, I hope you do not mix reality with fiction to construct a view which is neither here nor there.

=============

You still do not get it. The sycophants have been and will keep saying that he is the best person to be the PM and ask for one reason they will give 100s as to his suitability, Ask yourself – has he obliged them by becoming one?

Let me get provocative here for a change – here is one person who chooses not to be the Prime Minister when there is nothing or no one to stop him, on the other hand we have two – Advani and Modi – who are desperate to occupy a position that is not vacant. Any thoughts on that? If you choose not to respond to this, I will understand.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Vijay Kumar,

Pl. permit me to say a thing or two. Like millions of Indians, Manohar too may be enamoured of the Gora chitta baby-faced Rahul. But, sometimes if one looks at things from a different perspective, things will have different meanings.

Four election losses in a single day. No big deal he says. Asks, what is new.

Now, look at Bihar. A dark skinned, ganwar-looking Nitish Kumar dealt such a crushing blow to the prince charming, that 204 of his chosen foot soldiers lost their deposits, the state congress president being one among them! The same was repeated in TN and Kerala, on a slightly smaller scale, but equally debilitating. But our media had only kind words for the prince.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Ishwar,
You should admit that Congress is very powerful political force. It dominates almost all walks of life. Almost 80% of the Indians have direct or indirect congress roots. It is not so easy to upstage congresss. It is master at communal and caste equation. During *** end of Anna’s last fast, Bukhari started barking on Anna. Who was he barking for? Of course Congress..then another dalit nutjob Udit Raj started questioning dalit participation in Anna’s movement..He was doing Congress’s bidding.

Congress is working in the background to consolidate Dalit-Muslims-Christians-Pro-congressi hindus to reach 40% mark so that it can again occupy centerstage. The only way to counter Congress’s strategy is to divide this consolidation. The muslims should be divided as Shias-Deobandis-Barelvis-Ahmedis-Pasmandas. The NDA can target Barelvis-Ahmedis-pasmandas and a section of Shias. This was successfully done by Nitish in last Bihar elections. The Dalists should be further divided by playing Nitish’s strategy..Mahadalits should be identified and wooed. The christians are firmly with congress because they have more faith in catholic sonia and probably catholic Rahul.

Anna is basically a side-show. There is a new fad among Indians to talk about honesty etc. but I can say with 99% certainity that till shortcuts to get things are not plugged, 99,9% of the Indians will choose shortcuts and remain corrupt. The main thrust should be to use technology in all fields and plug all the loopholes that enable shortcuts.

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Rajeev,

It is sad but what you have said will most probably happen.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
@ Rajeev

A well written piece.

I think BJP is digging its grave by projecting Advani who is very old and will not win the hearts if the youth even against a dunce like Rahul.

I think the old man is smart enough and will see through rahul and Digvinash’s game, who would immediately sideline him in case he breaks away from his team.

However the danger of the Gaffe prone Rahul becoming the PM is everpresent.

Imagine a guy who has never worked for a living in his life. And he is asked to run a country as complex as India. In case somebody needs heart surgery… should he go to a fresher or to an experieced doctor….?

God save us,

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Vijay,
What are people doing to stop Rahul in his tracks? None in the media does a story that shows real Rahul to India. He will become PM no matter what you or I say because he is owner of Congress (I) Pvt. Ltd. who owns India by proxies.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
@ RajeevS

Of course the media will not question rahul. For them it is a question of getting ad revenue…

Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
BJP is basically a foolish party. I’ll write more about BJPs vote bank dilemma later and why it stands marginalized among political parties.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
What happened? Let us hear what you have to say about the BJP.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:18 am
I just said what I think of BJP. It is party of idiots who don’t know how to remain in power and create condition to stay in power for long.

They should observe congress closely and learn from the guru.
Prateek Trivedi

Vinod Sharma,
I saw you on some TV channel claiming that Congress would anyway lose in Hissar
If congress looses deposit, then it would mean Anna factor
That has happened now. What do u say now?

[Reply]
Anonymous

@ Dr Shah Alam

I am replying to your posting on this blog as I was not sure you would revisit the earlier one.

The gist of my arguement still remains that any anti corruption movement which manages to convince the people and change the situation is vyavastha parivartan. In this case you may have personal differences with the philosophy of Anna and his team. But you have to acknowledge that there is real hope for some change on the issue fo corruption.

Let me tell you many people in real life are not angels and pure as you imagine them to be. We really have to judge them by the cause they espouse. Shabana Azmi for example was in my eyes gorgeous, intelligent and a lady who spoke for the poor of the country.

The same Shabana in an interview let it be known that she loves her Mercedes ( “prized possesion” ) and diamond jewellary and her trips to the US. Now should I let this actual reality of Shabana, liking the material aspects of life, color my view of her as a spokeswoman for the underprievelaged? No Sir, I will not. Simply becasue when she stood up against the Madrassa walas and Raj Thakerey, she was voicing a cause which was dear to all of us.

Similarly with the Anna team, you could find fault with their personal philosophies. I for example would rebel against any overtly moral regime. But I would never deny the fact that team Anna could well herald in a true revolution of honesty.

As for comparisons with the Arab spring, I think the comparison is misplaced. Out there the basic fight is for democracy and freedom which we in India already have. A lot of the Arab spring occurs because the US backs it covertly. In egypt it is now resulting in Islamic fundamantalism which has ignited the flames of Muslim – Christian violence….

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Extremely well put. Dr.Shah Alam shouldn’t have any problem in getting the perspective view of the movement being led by Anna Hazare. But, a person, who calls Anna Hazare a clown, his movement a circus and his team idiots, can hardly get the big picture of the anti-corruption movement.

The jury of Magasaysay awards themselves must be a pack of clowns and idiots to have awarded so many idiots who now dance around Anna, the biggest clown, with a “Gori” Bharat Mata benevolently looking down at them.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
Shenoy,
The problem is Shah Alam’s communal mindset. The muslims are allergic to anything that may directly or indirectly hurt muslim interests. Shah Alam knows that Anna’s movement may benefit BJP thus this contempt. The muslims are master in disguising their hatred into some kind of intellectual argument.
The basic fact is he is a muslim who sees Anna as an ally of BJP. All this clown, circus etc…are peep into the hatred that he carries in his heart.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:03 am
Rajiv,

I hate to admit it, but you have shown what lies beneath the thin veneer of secularity and liberalism Dr. Shah Alam is displaying for public consumption. And plainly and clearly the veneer is slipping, dangerously exposing the real man hiding uncomfortably beneath.

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 6:24 am
Thanks Rajeev ji……..for the “intellectually hateful” analysis. I was wondering why the allegation hadn’t been thrown till now. Normally on this blog people engage with me, argue for 2-3 strings and then I am rubbished as a rabid communalist who deserves to be treated like shit. That is my experience in last 3 years that I have started visiting the blog. Of course there are exceptions like Vijay ji who hold a diametrically opposite view (than that of mine) but do carry out a discussion with some respect. Anyway, its your take…….
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Shah Alamji,
I have lived among muslims for very long and know exactly how they express themselves. The deception is part of muslim psyche. You are no different.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
That is the problem – you painting everybody with the same brush.

What about Dr. APJ Kalam – former President. Is he also given to deception like the rest?

I could list many more names, if you wish.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
AJP Kalam is among 5% good muslims who stand disowned by their own community.
How many times have you heard leaders of muslim community praising Kalam especially Secular Bukhari.

Then the real good guy Arif Mohd. Khan stands totally marginalized for his support to muslim women rights.

I am not saying that there are no good muslims..all I am saying is that their percentage is miniscule compared to rabid fanatics.

Why don’t you stay among them for a long time..May be 5 years? You will get shock of your life…What goes on in muslim ghettos is beyond our imagination.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 2:19 am
Unacceptable.

You cannot brush everyone or even 95% or whatever with the same brush – your prejudice is showing. Sorry, just not done and I am very disappointed with you (you may give two hoots for my disappointment), but I had to put it across.

There is nothing to suggest that Dr. Shah Alam Khan fits into a slot you have created for the community. In fact, what he writes is more sensible than most of the others here. He has got his heart in the right place.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:17 am
Please show me one statement from any muslim religious leader praising Kalam as good muslim (to be followed).

If you do that I’ll not only apologize to Alam but also take back my words.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 4:17 am
You still do not get it and that is your problem with you, Rajeev. Sorry to tell you this again- prejudiced mind to the core.

Moreover, it is strange that you should look for opinions from religious leaders or others who are in the same slot you have created for the community.

I do not care what others say about anyone. I am capable of judging for myself any individual.

We are not on the same page.

Shahalamkhan Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 4:01 am
Manohar ji, identity and violence are the sine qua non of social hegemony. Honestly I can understand why and what Mr.Rajeev & Mr. Shenoy say. Let them be happy with their ideology…..lets propagate ours and let me tell you this site is the media to do this. Unfortunately my presence here is limited by a busy schedule at AIIMS. I thank you from my heart in supporting my views on this forum.
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 4:28 am
Dr. Khan

You are welcome. I would initiate a debate with you separately about the issues you have raised later in the day.

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Dear Vijay ji,
You seem to take the debate to a level of your own understanding. First and most important please try to understand that those who oppose the clown and his team are not corrupt, not pro Congress as much as you, as a Pro Anna man, do not want to be labelled as an RSS/BJP supporter. Look at Mr Shenoy’s reply underneath. He choose not to answer any of my questions in the last string and instead went on the illogical, tangent path. In fact he is one who has never given me an answer on this blog
There are faults with everyone. As doctors we are taught to evaluate constantly and change practice. My issue is NOT with the personalities (whom I am convinced to call clowns!) but with the soul of the movement. To you it looks like a “revolution of honesty” but unfortunately this revolution of honesty is catering to the needs of the few…..the few elite Indians like you and me. the common argument from people like you is that “isn’t corruption affecting the poor?”. Absolutely it is but the movement in question does not seem to address anything which has a lower caste, lower income, rural context. Anna’s deafening silence on a number of issues is so dangerous that it puts of the likes of me. Has Anna or any of his clowns ever spoken on the massacre of Khairlanji? I presume you too will go up to Wikipedia to enquire what I am talking. Do they know the reality of vidharba cotton farmers? Have they EVER gone out of their cosy nests to look at the issues which peril thousands of adivasis in the Narmada valley? Have they ever tried to introspect the hunger of Kalahandi? Or for that matter have they ever tried toengage in a sincere debate on the economic policies which benefit you and me at the cost of millions? The moment they start doing all this, they will become inconvenient to the likes of you and me! How can parivartan come for the elite few? And very correctly you pointed out the problem brewing up in Egypt. Don’t you think anything of this nature will happen once “team clowns” run over the parliament in the garb of anti corruption? Imagine the forces which will be in power once the clowns take over Delhi! This may sound music to you but for me its a nightmare in the making. You mentioned the Arab Spring but you conveniently chose to ignore the most exciting happening of the decade- Occupy Wall Street. I see that as a movement which will change the world (hopefully) for the good. As for numeric strengths I am sure that we have seen larger crowds on the streets of Srinagar and Aizwal? But they are inconvenient to me, to you and to the republic so we chose not to refer. Right? The line between revolution and jingoism is so thin that we always err one for the other when the packing is changed.
Vijay ji if you read up the history of world revolutions, you will realise that every revolution requires a critical mass to detonate. The critical mass is not made by a set of people….it comes from intrinsic evolution of the social order. I am sure that an army deserter, a lathi yielding police wali and an ex bureaucrat will not decide the context of revolution for a race of people who have a non violent freedom struggle in their heritage……surely not!
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi
PS: in one of your strings you had asked me if I can accept a director from outside AIIMS. Cannot understand the folly behind the question. If it was out of the paranoid on Rahul Gandhi, I never said that he is a PM material very much like Modi (and his cousin Varun) who is always considered a star PM stuff by the khaki walas. And yes I would surely accept a director from outside AIIMS…whats the big deal? Sorry no pun intended but honestly I couldn’t understand your logic on this one.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:17 am
@ Dr Alam

As you said, I do take the debate to the level of my own understanding… which, well, could be low. Now in college, my friends always said that I look down… as I always keep looking at the legs of girls … so it adds up !

Let me try to answer some of your points.

a) Firstly I said how would you react in case a fresher is made the Director of AIIMS and not whether an outsider can become the director. Would you expect a fresher to run AIIMS efficiently and also manage the doctors with so much experience?

b) Expecting Anna to comment about maoists and Khailanji is a bit like my Engineering proffessor expecting me to comment about Shakespeare and Macbeth. It is possible I may know about Shakespeare… it is also possible I confuse him with sheikhchilli. Why should my professor judge my thesis on eco-freindly buildings with my knowledge of Romeo and Juliet?

Basically we are talking about honest people talking about removing corruption. Team Anna fits the bill here. It is also possible that his views on Mao and Marx may be different thatn yours and mine. As long as he does my job of igniting the passion of people against the corrupt, why should I fault him for not loving Mao or Indian Maoists.

His secularism would well be of the Hindi film, louder than life variety. But in my view it is certainly better than that of forces which want division of India in the name of upholding liberal ideals OR people who worship the Left thinking that it is balanced and religion nuetral– without acknowledgin that communist regimes do have their own gods– like Pol Pot, Stalin, mao, Kim Sung 2 etc etc

c) As far as revolutions go… I would rather go for an evolution than a revolution. Having travelled extensively in China and to some extent in the erstwhile Soviet Union, I know for sure the havoc, murder and butchery the so called revolutions caused… and the hatred the common people have for the Stalinist and Maoist revolutions.

[Reply]
Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 6:18 am
I am so sorry Vijay ji, you have again missed the point or taken it out of context. Did I mention about the Maoists or the Communists in my last post? I can discuss both but unfortunately that is not the point in question. Revolution, my friend, does not mean Maoism, Marxism or any damn ism. Its about the fundamentals of survival of the downtrodden and the underprivileged. It is the change which appeals to masses…not to classes. Who can deny the havoc and butchery of the Pol Pot era. So going by your perceptions, if I condemn Anna and his team (for n number of reasons which I enumerated again and again) I am an assumed Maoist/Communist, and naturally if I am one, I deserve to be condemned…………..this is the logic which frightens me to the core when Anna supporters thump their chests in sympathy. Remember George W Bush? “Either you are with us or you are against us!” The dimensions of revolution began with class struggle not because Congress is in power or because BJP wants to come to power; these are petty issues which can only define a sham uprising of the type we are witnessing.
And yes pleeeeeese do say something on the Occupy Wall Street protests…I am dying to read your perception.
Have a great day!
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 7:19 am
Read this Vijay ji:
I suppose this is from one of the blogs I wrote in July of this year. I am a doctor, but I keep my eyes open
and ears on the ground. I love to hear the rumblings below….a stark reminder that I live in India! The pain is unbearable and ubiquitous:
According to a recent report of the Times of India (link below), in 40% schools of Shahjehanpur, Badaun and Pilibhit districts, teachers do not taste the mid-day meal food and students refuse to eat it since the cooks belong to lower caste. We can imagine if this happens in a state which is ruled by a dalit Chief Minister, what would be the conditions in the rest of India. Imagine this is happening in 2011 in a country where hunger deaths are reported on a frighteningly regular basis from Orissa and Maharashtra.
I am reminded of Albert Memmi (in Racism): There is a strange kind of tragic enigma associated with the problem of racism. No one, or almost no one, wishes to see themselves as racist; still racism persists, real and tenacious.
Now replace RACISM and RACIST with CASTEISM and CASTEIST………Welcome to India-2011!
Link: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-06-07/india/29628941_1_mid-day-meal-midday-meals-districts-children

Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:41 am
Dr. Khan

A third standing ovation.

[Reply]
Anonymous

=====================================================================
~~~~~~~~~ WHY RAHUL should NOT NOT NOT NOT be the PM ~~~~~~~~~
=====================================================================

After I completed my engineering from a fairly decent college and joined a company which was not too indecent, I was made a trainee and then given a job six rungs below the MD.

What would have happened had I become the MD??

-~~~ A DISASTER ~~~ !!

So if Rahul becomes the PM, without doing any work in his lifetime— we are heading for an apocalypse. He would rely on evil people like Digvinash who would use the situation to cause a disaster. For example in case Pakistan were to launch another 26/11 type fo an attack, Digvinash would immediattely advise Rahul to blame this on the RSS to win votes.

So here is what I tell all the guys who are ok with Rahul as the PM.

@ Vinod Sharma

Sir you earned your spurs with the malayalam manorma, then slogged out in inhospitable places like Pakistan, where the ISI trailed you, before you become the political editor of the HT. Honestly speaking were you qualified to be this post the day you became a journo, 25 years back???

@ Dr Shah Alam

Sir, what would happen if an outsider with no experience became the director of AIIMS?

@ manohar

How would you react in case somebody close to you is advised surgery by a doctor who is a duffer, but his only qualification is that his grandparents and father too was a doctor?/

I would love to have these reactions…

[Reply]
Anonymous

Gopi

Lest you missed this

Rajinder Singh – the Waterman

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1817/18170810.htm

Water security which we have discussed in earlier blogs.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1

Manohar;
I hold you in some esteem as you represent alternative( What is this thing?, different for different persons) view quite effectively. But, I am surprised with your vehemence against Shenoy, this reminds me, the annoyance shown by Vinod against him. Like Vinod, you were OK with Ravi and his fellow travellers and at times you will say, ignore them but again with Shenoy, you do not hide your anger/ annoyance. Why? Is he not entitled to have an alternative view? Is he more satirical than allowed? NO, any body and everybody, including you, are entitled to wield their pen, as one wishes. The only thing which , I hope, puts off most of the bloggers is foul language.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Some wars are fought using proxies…Vinod is doing the same. Vinod could not match up to Shenoy wits so he got Prabhat, Manohar, Ravi on his side to counter Shenoy.
Manohar is just doing his part.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 3:35 am
Come on, Rajeev

You are much more intelligent than to come to a such conclusion.

Await my reply to Pankaj.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
This is just my hunch. I have seen how some people ganged up on Shenoy at the instigation of Vinod. Initially Vinod was okay with even Tajender attacking Shenoy.

Shenoy has sympathies for RSS but that does not devalue his arguments. You have to admit that he is the best poet on this blog and has a unique style of putting forth his arguments.

I may or may not agree with him because at the end of the day he like you and me thinks of Indian first unlike Tajender and his sidekick Ravi.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
I do not agree.

By now it should be obvious to all that Shenoy invites attacks on himself – you must have already checked my reply to Pankaj earlier in the day.

Why would people only gang up against him (as you are presuming, but not true) and not others? For example, why not against you for that matter?

Best poet or whatever does not give him the right to get personal with others. Unique style, huh! You may think so, not me.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:15 am
That’s fine..but he is yet to stoop to the level of Congress supporters (Vinod being one of them).

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 4:10 am
That is a matter of individual opinion. You have yours and I have mine.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:40 am
Pankaj

Thank you for holding me in some esteem. I sincerely appreciate it.

This is the third time, I have been told/requested/whatever to lay off Shenoy. (Am I too hot a potato for him to handle?). This request/whatever has never been directed at him for the balderdash he dishes out.

1) In this blog check out who is the instigator? In one of the threads I only pointed out the contrasting stand taken of vis-a-vis: Anna Hazare within a space of 24 hours, based on unconfirmed media reports of Anna Hazare and Rahul Gandhi. I noted that he must be squirming. How does he react – that my “hatred” towards Anna Hazare has “blinded” me ………. blah, blah, blah. (I challenge anybody here that I have ever mentioned or even suggested explicitly or implicitly that I hate Anna Hazare, go back to as many blogs as one wishes).

2) In the previous blog, I applauded Dr. Khan’s observations. Now watch the exchange.

a) Manohar_T
Doctor Sahib

A standing ovation for your comments.

The only point to note (which I suppose you are aware of) this homily is not going to cut any ice with the likes of Shenoy and his fellow travellers, given their mind-sets.

b) SHENOYBV @There he goes off tangent with explicit “threat” – laughable to say the least – having been incensed by my appreciating Dr. Khan’s observations.@

Good that you ‘rushed’ to give a standing ovation to Dr.Shah Alam. In the coming days, rest assured, you will get fewer and fewer opportunities to even stand up and be counted.

c) Manohar_T @You expect me to keep quiet? No, he gets it.@

Dr. Alam’s response has really discomforted you, put you off-balance and you must be squirming in your ………. (take your pick). I am looking forward to your response to him.

I am not here to stand up and be counted (that is for the insecure types – perhaps you are one of them). Get that misunderstanding out of your little mind.

PS: I have made note of the “threat” (rest assured). Yes, your fans and chelas will be instructed not to engage with me. Who cares?

————

I could reproduce many more examples.

If he is going to attribute canards and spread such innuendos about me, he is going to get it really hard from me, make no mistake about that. If he lays off me, I will return the compliment – he is free to debate issues and put counter arguments in civilised manner, like others here do. Please do not take this is as a sign of weakness from my side.

About 20 odd posts by him on this blog, I have only responded to only one or perhaps two. The funny part is no one else has bothered to respond to him either, again except perhaps one or two.

If you are interested, I could tell you why he behaves and writes such drivel. Please let me know.

He is free to hold his views. When I no problems with others, why should I have a problem with him?

————–

My rejoinder to Vijay was a very strong one too for similar reasons – he attributed that I am “enamoured” by Rahul because of his fair skin, moreover he wanted an “honest” answer, as if I have been dishonest all along.

He had the sense to respond and see my reply in the right spirit.

I was OK with Ravi and others as far their views, whenever I concurred with. Not the foul language, attributing motives and personal attacks.

Have you had any problems with me? Not that I am seeking a certificate from anyone. It it comes along, well and good – treating it same as all the brickbats that come my way.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 9:48 am
Manohar;
I am sorry and at the same time happy that you took me seriously and cared to reply. Yes, I realized that in this particular exchange, I have never asked Shenoy to desist and why should I? And why he would listen to me, I have no hold over him of any kind , except as a fellow Indian and human being. Exactly same sentiments for you. Have I asked you to desist from attacking your perceived adversary and why I should and even if do, what compels you to listen to me. No sir, it is only respect as a former Indian and a human being, that you cared to answer me.
some time I appeal to certain people to desist from using foul language, that is as far as I dare to go. Your contribution is stimulating and though not agreeing with 100% of your views,I still appreciate your contribution. My observation was that in anger, useful thoughts get lost.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Pankaj

I am always game for civilised debates with anyone.

After your post last night and my response this morning – you must have noticed what he has been up to (see above) – taking umbrage of me giving an ovation to Dr. Khan. What should I do? Give him another KO punch or pity him? As I see it, he is incapable of engaging in intelligent debates and his irrelevance is clearly visible. In his bid to make himself relevant, his energies are expended on attempts to sow discord on this blog – taking on his perceived enemies, adversaries and demons, trying to incite his admirers too – the fact that he gets beaten blue and black in the process is besides the point and is completely lost on him. At other times, his arguments are bereft of any logic and common sense and he seems to be oblivious about it. He should stick to satirical rhyming verses and earn a few claps, if you ask me.

Having said that, I await another irrelevant avalanche form him.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Manohar,

To a person who found Ravi and Tajender very very agreeable, very relevant and highly capable of intelligent debate, I do come across contrary to all that these two “Indian Gentlemen” represent.

Incidentally, Tajender was expelled from the blog by Vinodji himself and you would do well to at least try to learn why. Was Vinodji anti-intelligent, relevant, capable debaters, that too on his own blog?

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Have your say and be happy. I do not give damn as to what you have to say.You may abuse me to you heart’s content or say whatever comes to your little mind. You have proved yourself to be beyond redemption and repair. You have ceased to exist as far as I am concerned. From now on, it will be a royal ignore. Got that.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:23 am
Pankaj ji,

here is something for you to chew on:

Dr.Shah Alam calls Anna Hazare a clown, his movement a circus and his team idiots.
He also calls them a pack of clowns and idiots who dance around Anna, the biggest clown, with a “Gori” Bharat Mata benevolently looking down at them.

And Manohar is so overwhelmed by Dr. Alam’s oratory and demagogy, he stands up and gives him a big ovation!

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Shenoy Sahab;
I am happy that Dr. Alam is back to the blog. Quality of blog has suddenly improved as some nuisance has disappeared. I would like to engage with Dr. Alam as I find him ideologically commited to some vague cause and share a disquiet with many, witnessing a painting of Bharatmata, which translated stands as Mother India. For many people, mother India carries no threat but reverse is not true.
Anyway, so many deadlines to meet. Damn this capitalist system. Ha

[Reply]
Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
Dear Pankaj ji,
Thanks for writing what I perceived as appreciation……do let me know if its otherwise! Jokes apart, let me clarify the Bharat mata bit. I wrote in one of my replies to Mr. Shenoy “….gori Bharat mata”. My pun was not Bharat or mata, as has been put up by Mr. Shenoy. More than anything I am amazed at the “gori (fair)” aspect of Bharat mata. How can Mother India (as you correctly decipher Bharat mata) be a fair lady when more than 80 percent of the “mool nivasis” of this country are either dark brown or to an extent black? Isn’t this a corruption of sorts where we change the color of our own mother to make her more palatable for mass consumption? Or was it a deliberate attempt to send a signal to the remaining 80% local natives that this agitation is not meant for you! I am reminded of Christ being shown as a white man with blue eyes by the racial West even when we know that someone born in Nazarth can only be brown even if we stretch our imagination to the max.
Hope you understand my view-point. Always good to be in touch with you.
truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Dear Dr. Shah Alam Khan;
Thanks for your reply. Yes my letter was in appreciation to you, stating that by your participation, discussions have improved. Sorry, I will not be able to read all your posts, written in this blog, because of paucity of time, hence will concentrate only to your post to me.
I have high regards for fellow doctors and particularly to faculty in AIIMS, as you people can easily earn 10 times more in private sector, if you chose so. Having said this, still I will say that I do not agree with you when you describe Mother India as GORI. This word has different connotations, if one start stretching ones imaginations, which I believe was not your intention. Now even caste hindus, whose ancestors, we believe, were Aryans and as they migrated to India, brought their genetic/ climatic colour with them. Lot of intermixing happened and also due to climate, most of the people have acquired blackish hue. When I am wearing bushshirt,in North America, my arm is fairer than my forearm. Subsequent conquest by Moghuls and then britishers, also reinforced prejudice in favor of a fairer colour. So, depicting our beloved person in fairer colour is almost natural and it crosses all barriers of caste, religion, mool niwasi or expatriates. In a lighter vein, if colour is only decisive factor, in your selection of wife, what you will prefer. In all honesty, I will prefer a sanwali jhalak, whom I can call, kala namak, kala Gulab or Black diamond. Too much white appear to me Cadaverish. Well jokes apart, pitting Mool Niwasis and upper castes is not condusive to social harmony. No one in this blog supports caste system, everybody has sympathy for downtroddens, however, how to ameliorate their lot, people have different opinions.
lastly, as you proudly come with your muslim name, shows you have no hidden agenda, and I still remember you defending India and Indian Muslims against a Pakistani muslim. You may have other approach to problems, but I will never call you communal.

Shahalamkhan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Thanks Pankaj ji….its because of people like you and because of Vinod Sharma ji that I feel coming here now and again. As for gori wife, my wife is….kala namak!!:-)
Jokes apart I don’t think what you write is true. We Indians are biased for fair skin. Please sow one matrimonial advert in any indian newspaper which doesn’t describe the girl “fair”. Imagine this in which other country will male bollywood stars promote fairness creams? The aryans are surely not the mool niwasi…..not as far as I know history. their intermingling gave some of us fair skin but that doesn’t lessen the crime we, outsiders, have perpetrated and continue to perpetrate on adivasis and local tribesman of India. There is a hell lot of literature on the subject in case you are interested. Remember Pankaj ji, even today 20percent of fair skinwalsa rule the 80% of mool niwasis. How can you rubbish off the mool niwasis without actually defining the problem? This continues my core issue of contention with the team of clowns which is hell bent on being called the soldiers of honesty! This is the biggest moral corruption in my eyes.
Great to e in touch.
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi
Anonymous

Mayawati had said,

“Tilak Taraju aur Talwar
maro inko joote char

Now Digvinash Singh is saying:

Anna, Bedi, Prashanth aur Kejriwal
yeh sab hain hamare liye yek bawaal
Inke liye hazaar hain hamare sawaal
maro inko joothon se kewal

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 7:55 am
Kyuonki hum hain Gandhi ke asli Lal

[Reply]
Anonymous

Is Arvind Kejriwal a Gandhian ? …. Far from it .Rather.. if an Eminent Editor is to be believed he could be a BJP Proxy …But is he faking to be a Gandhian …some would certainly say so ..after all why should he let go and make an appeal to the Police to free his assailant ..who acknowledges that he was Congress Seva Dal volunteer..
On another day we saw on TV, a slipper being thrown at the great Gandhian Janardan Dwivedi of the sole Gandhian Party …the Congress . Another true Gandhian , a gentleman by the name of Digvijay Singh rushed into that room and threw the assailant down ,kicked him ..punched him and thrashed that person black and blue along with his Gandhian “Seva Dal” volunteers…
But let us not be distracted by such trivia. There is a larger task at hand ..Hissar cannot be allowed to be repeated The next one is to be taught a lesson. Now who would that be ..touching the Lady may be risky ..in any case IT notices may succeed . Others .. shall be seen.. More innovative Gandhian ways have to be found
After all the battle for UP has truly begun.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Amazing India.

Only Sonia Gandhi can bring strong Lokpal: Arvind Kejriwal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Only-Sonia-Gandhi-can-bring-strong-Lokpal-Arvind-Kejriwal/articleshow/10409153.cms

Excerpt

“The answer is that only Congress president Sonia Gandhi can do so. Her direction to the Congress-led UPA government can ensure a strong Jan Lokpal, which can put all corrupt politicians behind bars be it those belonging to BSP, SP, BJP or Congress,” he said at Jhulelal Park.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 8:47 am
Manohar,

Yes, Mr. Kejriwal is right. The moment Sonia Gandhi agrees to a strong
Jan Lokpal it will become reality. No one will dare to defy her. She is the
ultimate power.

[Reply]
Prahlad_k Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 8:56 am
Then Mr Kejriwal should have worked alongwith NAC and we would have got Lokpal bill without problems and street demonstration.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Mohan

If you have read my posts for some months now – I have always questioned the methods and tactics used by the Civil Society to make the politicians do something about corruption – forget the specific Jan Lokpal bill(*). Sure they scored some brownie points in full glare of TV cameras, thats about it. I have always advocated that to do so you have to work with the system and not outside it or confront it. If Mr. Kejriwal has realized now – better late than never.

I have very serious doubts about Sonia Gandhi’s clout over the Parliamentarians and whether her directive will make the Parliament do her bidding. Also one has to be aware that there is the Supreme Court – any unconstitutional hanky – panky will be struck down. People are giving too much weight to her “authority” outside of the Congress Party. Here Mr. Kejriwal is perhaps mistaken.

Only the Congressmen dare not defy her and she is not the ultimate power outside of the Grand Old Party.

To get an effective (whatever that means) Lokpal bill will need constitutional amendments, requiring 2/3rds majority in both the houses – and the UPA does not have it, leave alone the Congress Party. Other parties may not play ball.

* Their version of the bill has been a flawed one from the start. By now you know my stand – this Lokpal / monster is not going to reduce corruption. Will only add costs, nothing more.

He should have made this appeal to the all the heads of various parties, not to her alone.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Manohar,

Did Kejriwal appeal to Sonia Gandhi to bring Lok Pal ?
He said that only Sonia Gandhi can get this bill passed as
he believes that she has the clout over parliamentarians – which you dont believe – and she can coerce them to sign
on the dotted lines if she wants.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Mohan

I would like to know as to the basis of your belief that Sonia Gandhi has clout over the Parliamentarians – I am totally at a loss. She is a president of a party, just like Nitin Gadkari is of BJP.

The other parties, especially the BJP, will tell her to go take walk.

At most, she can convene a meeting and request the chiefs of other parties to attend, where they could discuss the issues involved. In any case, such a meeting would be meaningless, as the standing committee is studying the various aspects of the proposed bill.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Manohar,
Sonia has absolute clout over 202 Congress MPs. Rest can be managed using tools such as CBI…Job done.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Manohar,

I have based my opinion by reading such articles.

http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_040430.htm

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2009-05-22/news/28403164_1_rahul-gandhi-upa-leaders-young-leader

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Mohan

OMG. You are “more loyal” than the Congress sycophants. They will be mighty proud of you.

Rajeev

CBI pressure works only on the few, not on all – so it will not make much difference to get to that 360 votes in Lok Sabha and about 180+ in the Rajya Sabha..

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Manohar,

I am surprised that you have compared Gadkari with Sonia Gandhi. In BJP there
are many leaders who can challenge Gadkari without caring about the consequenses — like Advani, Modi, Sushma
Swaraj, Arun Jaitley and Shourie. Is there any one in congress who can go against the wishes of Sonia Gandhi.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Mohan,

you will be surprised to kn ow what Jagan Mohan Reddy told Sonia Gandhi on her face, that too in her own den, when she had called him for a patch up.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Mohan

Is there any one in congress who can go against the wishes of Sonia Gandhi? Of course, not.

Same is the case with Jayalalitha, Bal Thakre, Mulayam SIngh, Karunanidhi and lest you forget Mayawati, just to name few.

In case of the BJP, Nitin Gadkari is just a front – a mukhoTaa. No one dare go against the wishes /firmans of Mohan Bhagwat & Co.

So what else is new?

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 7:08 am
Manohar,

Typical politicians reply.
We are talking about Gadkari and Sonia and you bring in Jayalalita and all others .
Any way as usual we agree to disagree but it always is nice to discuss with you.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 8:32 am
But then they are no less autocratic and many are even worse.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 11:37 am
AND SINCE SHE HAS NO DESIRE FOR HARAKIRI, SHE WILL NOT.

[Reply]
Anonymous

One of the reason given by the people who are opposing Anna that his fight
against corruption is for people of middle class and not for loweer class. I have not understood
on what basis it is being said . Team Anna have themselves claimed that their Jan Lokpal will not eradicate the corruption completely but it will bring down
by 40-50 pct. I know of few schemes of our governemnt which are suppose to benifit poor people like NREGA, BPL cards, cheap government hospitals, waiver of loans for the farmers etc.
But everbody knows that only 15-20% of money spent on such schemes actually
reach the deserving people. — It was Rajiv Gandhi who had said this — Dont you all think that if the corruption in all departments of government accross the country comes down then these people will also benifit.
I just dont understand how giving opinion on Kashmir, Modi and other problems in India will help poor people in our country.
. IMO lower corruption and developement will ulitamately
help everyone .

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 9:46 am
anna is silent on corporate loot.he wants poors to be very honest,not the looters of wealth.this drama was carried out by brhmnst anna to deflect attention from rss terrorism in india.they were main perpetuators of 26/11.

[Reply]
engrich

BALWINDER JEE,though i knew that amitabh is rascal hype by media,but i never knew this,good news,अमिताभ को गुरुवार को ऑस्ट्रेलिया में डॉक्टरेट की मानद उपाधि से सम्मानित किया जाने वाला है। सिख फॉर जस्टिस (एसएफजे) ने यह शिकायत ऑस्ट्रेलिया में राष्ट्रमंडल जन अभियोजन के डायरेक्टर (कॉमनवेल्थ पब्लिक प्रॉसिक्यूशन) क्रिस्टोफर क्रैगी के सामने दर्ज कराई है। इस शिकायत को ऑस्ट्रेलिया के क्रिमिनल कोड एक्ट 1995 के तहत दर्ज किया गया है (जो कहता है कि ऑस्ट्रेलियाई अदालतों के पास मानवता के खिलाफ अपराध के सभी मामलों का क्षेत्राधिकार है, फिर चाहे यह अपराध ऑस्ट्रेलिया में हुआ हो या कहीं और)।

सिख संगठन सिख फॉर जस्टिस ( SFJ ) के लीगल अडवाइजर गुरुपटवंत सिंह पनून के मुताबिक बच्चन पर यह केस 31 अक्टूबर 1984 को दिए गए उनके भड़काऊ बयान को लेकर दर्ज कराया गया है है। पनून के मुताबिक अमिताभ ने तब ‘खून के बदले खून’ और ‘खून के छींटे सिखों के घर तक पहुंचने चाहिए’ जैसे भड़काऊ बातें कही थीं।

अमिताभ फिलहाल सिडनी में ‘द ग्रेट गैट्सबाय’ की शूटिंग में व्यस्त हैं। इसमें अमिताभ के को-स्टार चर्चित फिल्म ‘टाइटैनिक’ के ऐक्टर लियोनार्डो डि कैप्रियो हैं। बॉलिवुड के ‘शहंशाह’ को ब्रिसबेन के क्वींसलैंड यूनिवर्सिटी ऑफ टेक्नॉलजी में गुरूवार को डॉक्टरेट की मानद उपाधि से सम्मानित करेगा।

[Reply]
Anonymous

Prahlad

Some of the bloggers (see earlier blogs) here have giving very high marks to the Empress of Poes Gardens – vis-a-vis fight against corruption and administrative capabilities, and expect to her play very decisive role at the centre, some even suggesting that she would be an “ideal” Home Minister under equally “ideal” Prime Minister – Narendra Modi.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Well, the best home minister would have been Karuna, right?

Do you also know the ideal portfolios for Raja, Kani and Maran?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Ishwar

Do not jump the gun and reach such ludicrous conclusions. I will not comment on the content of your post (not worth the paper it is written on), but will make a personal observation.

The problem with you is that if one criticises X, you automatically assume that one is in favour of Y. Sorry to say, you need to really grow up.

It seems, in your world view, there does not exist any independent opinions, no shades of grey or criticism of people on both sides. You make your life very simple – either one is with you or against you.

[Reply]
Anonymous

I have been loving this debate. Gentlemen Dr shah alam khan and Manohar, pl you do not attack Shenoy personally. I like all 3 of you, disagree with all 3 sometimes but agree WITH SILENT MAJORITY ON BLOG HERE that some target Mr Shenoy unfairly.
Full 100 percent marks go to Vijay for best contributions on Rahul gandhis inexperience and for brilliant analogy that Dr Alams comment that Anna has not spoken about xyz is like Vijay engineer not speaking about Shakespeare.
Dr Alam pl be prepared for strong, not rude , response when you call Anna team clowns. You make terrible diagnosis this time doctor. I await yr reply on ALL my points above

[Reply]
Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
Balwinder ji, whether my clown comments hold true or not, time will tell. As for your remarks on my being personal with Mr. Shenoy, I beg to differ. Go through all the blog strings and tell me a time when I had been personal on him…..in fact go through all the blog strings of last 3 years on this blog and show me one comment where I was personal with anyone (I have argued with the likes of Azhars and Shenoys with equal force), and I’ll stop coming on the blog. By the way I would like to know your thoughts on Mr Shenoy and Mr Ashish C calling me communal. If thats not personal, nothing is. Anyway I did ask you a question in the last blog as well, and you maintained silence. Sir, blogs like this are media to understand and retrospect and I always try to argue on these lines. People like Vijay ji and Pankaj ji, do engage but then others either maintain silence or use bits from replies to hammer their point in.
Finally I appreciate your “diagnosis” comments.But Sir diagnosis is not “made”, it is best concluded upon based on evidence. The team clown’s diagnosis is a conclusion of idiocities of hope…of people like me and you……I would be extremely happy if I am proved wrong this time around! At least my nation will go the right way.
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
Dr Saab,

Let me say, again, I have NOT called you communal.

Now, let me quote Balwinderji, who too has NOT called you communal:

“You sirji, a doctor should proceed very carefully when THE SINGLE BIGGEST PEOPLE”S MOVEMENT WHICH HAS ELECTRIFIED PEOPLE FROM THE CHOWKIDAR OF MY FARMHOUSE IN AMRITSAR TO THE MILLIONAIRE PUNJABIS AT MY GURUDWARA HERE IN LONDON, is labelled as a movement of clowns.
….. Immediately even I, who like your posts, wonder how you think like Saba Naqvi and Jawed Naqvi of Dawn who sneer at Anna and are distressed by slogans of vande mataram and bharat mata. Maybe your reasons are different, but the nations faultlines open up.”

I agree with Balwinderji 100%. You have tried to trivialise a truly great national movement by calling it names.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
@Shah Alam Khan,
Can you please quote where exactly, in which sentence, I have called you communal?
Your post (to which I responded) was far from perfectly argued, and I will say that again. But, I can make the point without calling you names.
I do not visit this blog frequently any more owing to pressures on the work front- so, it is only by chance I saw Balwinder and then your posts- “AshishC called me communal”.
This matters to me. So, I would be deeply obliged if could quote the offending passage which called you coomunal in any of my posts addressed to you and I would humbly apologise.
If it was a misunderstanding on your part, I would understand but, do please clear it up.

[Reply]
Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 1:19 am
Dear Ashish,
Thanks for clarifying. I apologize for wrongly dragging your name. It was RAJEEV S and Shenoy sahib who didi the honors. I presume the “C” and the “S” got me confused. I am really sorry. Look forward to a healthy debate with you.
Truly
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 5:19 am
Dr. Alam,
having seen, from close quarters, the working of AIIMS and Safdarjung Hospital for two years, though many years ago, I can understand the kind of stress honest and good doctors in these two institutions have to slog under. Therefore, I can understand your confusion and fogginess while reading names here. For the second time, let me say that I have not used the word communal for you.

AshishC Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Thank you sir. You are most gracious.
This new blog format does not make it easy; so, I trawled through 20 pages of content to look for where exactly I said what!
I shall try and frame an answer to the points you raised; right now, my working hours are such that I shall need professional attention from all the doctors here very soon- for everything from hairloss to ingrown toe-nails and all the parts in between!
Have a good day.

AshishC Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
@Shah Alam Khan,
Can you please quote where exactly, in which sentence, I have called you communal?
Your post (to which I responded) was far from perfectly argued, and I will say that again. But, I can make the point without calling you names.
I do not visit this blog frequently any more owing to pressures on the work front- so, it is only by chance I saw Balwinder and then your posts- “AshishC called me communal”.
This matters to me. So, I would be deeply obliged if could quote the offending passage which called you coomunal in any of my posts addressed to you and I would humbly apologise.
If it was a misunderstanding on your part, I would understand but, do please clear it up.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
You wrote “Manohar, pl you do not attack Shenoy personally”

Fourth request to lay off Shenoy. No strictures against him for the innuendos or spreading canards. First ask him to behave – attacks will automatically stop.

[Reply]
Anonymous

There is new development on Anna front. There are some activists who are deserting Ann after CONGRESS’S HISAR DEFEAT. This has exposed congressis who were in Anna Camp working from inside from Congress.

Now Anna should do same against BJP so that all the activist sympathetic to BJP are weaned out of this movement.

These two parties are the problem not the solution.

By the way the guy who attacked Kejriwal is a committed Congressman, Chela of Rahul for past 6 years…Jai Ho..

[Reply]
Anonymous

Doctor saheb, this nihang shoots straight from hip. I think sadly that Indian muslims are UNFAIRLY labelled communalist on occasions. You sirji, a doctor should proceed very carefully when THE SINGLE BIGGEST PEOPLE”S MOVEMENT WHICH HAS ELECTRIFIED PEOPLE FROM THE CHOWKIDAR OF MY FARMHOUSE IN AMRITSAR TO THE MILLIONAIRE PUNJABIS AT MY GURUDWARA HERE IN LONDON, is labelled as a movement of clowns.
….. Immediately even I, who like your posts, wonder how you think like Saba Naqvi and Jawed Naqvi of Dawn who sneer at Anna and are distressed by slogans of vande mataram and bharat mata. Maybe your reasons are different, buy the nations faultlines open up.
Still, Shenoy and that sweet boy Ashish should NOT have called you communal.
You said team clown is idiocity of hope=sir= whatever they may not be, but ANNA, KIRAN, KEJRIWAL, BHUSHAN are DECENT HONEST PEOPLE and I see sunshine of hope of new dawn in them. Sorry you missed the tsunami of change completely.
Is baar mareez ki nabz theek nahi padi dr saab

[Reply]
Shahalamkhan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 7:41 pm
Nafas ka hisaab London se baith kar lagana zara theek nahi hai Balwinder ji Anyway thanks for supporting me on being called a communalist……doesn’t matter, I am pretty much used to it now. You compared me to Saba Naqvi and Jawed. I can only say that their thoughts are governed by an agenda, I write from my heart. If I feel this way, I am sure it is this way till I see a perceptible change in the situation. In “team clown’s” case I am convinced of the malice and egoism involved. Taking the nation to ransom on the basis of minuscule urban numbers is and cannot be revolution for me. I still await the day when the thunder will roll under the feet of us Indians and you in london will feel the rumblings….that day will come Balwinder ji.
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Still, Shenoy and that sweet boy Ashish should NOT have called you communal.
Huh?
When did I ever call ShahAlamKhan communal???
I find his reasoning faulty and would like to come back someday to properly debate the issues. But, I did not call him communal.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Still, Shenoy and that sweet boy Ashish should NOT have called you communal.
Huh?
When did I ever call ShahAlamKhan communal???
I find his reasoning faulty and would like to come back someday to properly debate the issues. But, I did not call him communal.

[Reply]
Anonymous

@ Dr Shah Alam

I am answering your posting out here as the format of this blog is so damned idiotic that to see a reply one needs to click 20 pages.

a) Your belief that I am putting a label of a Marxist/Maoist on you. I think that is shooting of on a tangent ! You could and I could have sympathy for the cause– my reaction would be that it is a state failure to provide employment and development in deprived regions as well as poor corrupt governance.

I would NOT appreciate them taking to the gun or for that matter the ideology of Maoist massacre they follow.

b) Your belief that I am ignoring the casteism that prevails in India. No, I am not. However my prescription for improvement would be diffferent.

Today a huge chunk of India sees satellite TV. I think the mass media could have been used to damn caste.

I think the only reservation India requires besides that of Scheduled castes in education and jobs is of priests from all strata of society in Hindu temples. Why not?

In many colonies in cities, places are earmarked for religious buildings. The state could have been proactive to ensure that the priests in these would be of all strata.

Today at least 70% of India goes trhru some form of schooling. We could have used the schools, with a chapter on social studies to damn casteism and inculcate a feeling of equality in young minds.

I can give you a a list of at least 50 other ways how caste could have been eradicated.
————————————————————————————————————————–
Now let me ask you a reverse question. You have still not answered my query on the suitability of Rahul for the PM’s post. That how you would react incase a fresher was appointed as an AIIMS director just because his father was one, years back…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Vijay,

Problem is that though the father was not a freshman but was just a sophomore . He did not go through the stage of a juniour and senior and
still was directly appointed as a Dean . And now to be in the good books of
Madam the chamchas in his party are trying to make the freshman a dean.

Who cares about the country it can go to hell .

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@ MOhan

As usual you can make us smile. Yes… an appropriate similie…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Vijay Kumar, Mohan,

at least in the “gaffe” department, Rahul is the chip of the old block.

Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Here is a riddle:
0 rupees prize for solving this one !
————————————————–

Gafee gaffe gaffe
main hoon kaun ?

I am a gora like JOhn
But it is better if I stay maun

Because people say I am a quixote like Don !!

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Thanks for the reply Vijay ji. you have exonerated me from all the allegations- good for me! Thanks once again. Well, I donot know how you got an impression that I think Rahul should be the next PM? I consider him a political idiot who surely has benefited from the dynastic principles of India’s political system. Surely there would be many more deserving candidates even within Congress than Rahul! Coming back to core issues, sorry Vijay ji 70% doesn’t go to school. Read P Sainath’s Everybody Loves a Good Drought and particularly the chapter, “Thats the way we go to school”. It will be an eye opener. Did you read my note from Racism which I posted on the other page? If you did and if you agree with it (which appears from the reply above that you do to an extent), you don’t need 50 ways to eradicate caste system from our system…theres only one way- clear and sure shot. Since I am an agonist, I cannot buy your idea of reservations for priests….but may be you could have a stronger reason to do that, fair enough. If I am given a chance I would vote to abolish all forms of religion from this country. Google the information on atheism and national progress. You will surprised to know that most well developed nations of the world harbor maximum number of atheists.
Finally I am still waiting for your take on Occupy Wall Street!
Bye for now,
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 5:00 am
Dr Alam

I am not sure whether the world is ready to become an atheist… not yet. However if I were to say that in an ideal world EVERYONE should be an athiest…. well I would be taking away the freedom of following a religion from people. So a less than ideal situation.

Yes, I do believe that religion has been the source of hatred, turmoil and many a war. In the end, it is really about evolution of religion and not letting it be static to one particular text.

For example as a Hindu I abhor the caste system or for that matter the belief in re-incarnation. In my mind I have chopped it out of my religious beliefs.

However I do respect your atheism. I do believe that some of the finest minds and scientists were those who walked away from religion and dogma to see the truth of science and arts and human thought.

But then in my less then fine mind… I also like to believe that there is some larger handm beyond the big bang… which could have created this world. So I would be happy with atheists and people who have a GENTLE religious belief.

[Reply]
Shahalamkhan Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 1:10 am
Dear Vijay ji,
I never said that the world should become atheist and if this was implied from my response, my apologies. My simple argument is that religion came at a time when modern means of establishing social order were not available. There is no doubt in my mind that religions have played a huge part in shaping different civilisations but with advent of modern means of systems of establishing social order like courts, democracies and policing, the need for religion has become significantly less. Or should I say that religion has outlived its shelf life in the present context. In societies still governed by laws of religion, like Saudi Arabia, we can see the rot that plagues the society. Finally couldn’t understand what you meant by “gentle” religious belief? I suppose either you are religious or you are a-religious…..
Your belief in a larger someone up there is well taken but what is the solution when “my larger someone” up there is supposed be bigger, mightier, stronger, than “your mightier someone”? This is when the real problem starts….how do we counter “mera khuda terey khuda se barha hai” kind of attitude.
And yes no mention yet of Occupy Wall Street!!!!
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Aaloke Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 9:30 am
Dear Shah Alam Khan,
That is the problem with Abrahamnic Religions. Their view is ONLY MY PROPHET/RELIGION is good, everything else is not only bad, but to be eradicated. We have problems in Dharmic Traditions ( Originated in India), but nowhere this kind of problem. Further there is a tradition in Dharmic Traditions to change things. It is an evolving system.
Discussions on Presence or Absence of God is healthy, but making a final statement is Stupidity.This bloodshed and violence on matters of Religion derive from this final statement ( whether Abrahaminic or Communist Final Statements )

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 10:34 am
Aaloke,

I agree with you.

May be I cannot give you a standing ovation, but still, sitting in front of my computer, I say, ‘three cheers to Aaloke……..”

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Hi Aaloke (don’t know if the “e” at the end is really needed). Well I can understand when you make that statement. Problem is not ONLY with Abrahamic religions, problem is with religion….and that is exactly I & Vijay ji were discussing. In fact even you acknowledge that Vedic (which you probably wrongly call Dharmic Traditions) religions have there own issues. So we are on the same page, that religion does cause problems- what we differ is what sort of problems and (vis a vis your statement) what final statement can we make. You are right in concluding that final statements are always brainchild of stupids.
Analysing further, part of problem of Biblical religions originates from adherence to blasphemy, a concept otherwise unknown to other major religions of the world. It also explains to a degree the resurgence of militant forms of religious interpretations (for example one by Shiv Sena in India) in religions/religious authorities which have imbibed or copied blasphemy from the Abrahamic religions.
And yet again you concluded on my “ism”(Communist?)…..thanks but don’t you think that this is the major problem—-making FINAL statements on individual thinking?
Have a great day!
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 11:08 am
@ Dr Shah Alam

You are right that religions has had its place in maintaining social order… and also in maintianing status quo.

By gentle religion I meant a non threatening way of looking at God. Where I am not interested in converting people. yet I have a right to get converted if I want… even if I want to become an atheist.

And as far as wall street goes… I am no expert. All I can say is how I view the shares and bond market. Now for running a small business, the first thing I did was to take a loan from my family and then from my friends… and finally from the bank. The share market is a larger forum where a new company or an old company raises money for a venture.

But… the it also abounds with stories of thousands of crores swindled and new investors taken for a ride by junk bonds and swindlers.

So when the chips are down, the general public periceves that those guys at Wall Street make billions and we are unemployed… so the anger.

But… there is a larger story hidden. Free market economies also meant that trade barriers were removed between countries. Initially the west did it so that their products could go to all countries. However now China with a closed economy and huge huge production capacity has used its totaltarian system to grab all the world markets. From Chicago to chandigarh all shops are flooded with Chinese products. The jobs all go to china consequently. No country can manufacture as efficiently and without labour problems as China does.

Thus there is a latent anger worldwide. People are unemployed. THere is a general feeling that the guys at the Wall street have 100 million dollar bonuses while we get no jobs….

So we can see more protests. Americans are blowing up their tax dollars as well as money borrowed from China into blowing bombs worldwide…

Its a funny world…
Anonymous

Well I am not counting mysef our yet…

[Reply]
Anonymous

???

[Reply]
Anonymous

Dr.Shah Alam Khan,

you asked me, “Finally Mr Shenoy I write what I support. But I am afraid Sir, in your case I do not see the same honesty. You seem to support the BJP (maybe the RSS) but haven’t ever confessed this on this blog. Is this not moral corruption? I only hope my last analysis is god damn nonsense.”

In a later post, you said I am not replying to your poser.

Being a too infrequent visitor to Vinodji’s blog, you may not be aware, but Vinodji, in order NOT TO LEAVE ANY DOUBT AMONG HIS FOLLOWERS, himself has variously described me as ‘a chaddiwala, Nagpuria, fascist, Hindu fundoo, a darzi tailoring chaddies for Nagpur etc, etc, etc. He was very ably and convincingly supported by the likes of Ravi, Tajender etc and also, understandably Prabhat.

Do you still believe your own words that I haven’t ever “confessed” to anything?. I have “confessed”, a long time back, when Vinodji first asked me “to identify” myself, to being at least some of these epithets.

Usually, one can make out where a writer’s loyalties or allegiances lie. For example, Vinodji has been described by most as a staunch supporter of the congress and consequently a passionate opponent of Anna’s movement against corruption.

In your case too, one can discern what you are, really, and what you are not unreally.
The remark about “Gori Bharat Mata”, despite your convoluted explanation, was, in reality, a Freaudian slip. However, I do not think I have called you communal.

[Reply]
Anonymous

============================================================
~~~ WILL THE US ATTACK PAKISTAN ? msn hints so…. ~~~
————————————————————————————————————————-

MSN news reports that Gen Kayani has strongly warned the US not to attack Pakistan. It further reports that there is a huge build up of troops at the Pak afghan border,

Is the US finally going to slap its errant child… its illegitmate progeny?

My view is that unlike India which could not do anything about 26/11 and the afghan embassy attacks… the US is not going to forget the attack on its embassy by the ISI.

So good fun is going to happen on the western border…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
No USA will not attack.
All USA needs to do is suspend all financial assistance to Pak through IMF, WB and let it default on its loans and suffer the consequences of that.
Just doing that, which would also save USA dollars, would fix Pakistan.
But infinitely dumb USA is incapable of even that.
So Pakistan need not worry.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Yeddyurappa gets AC cell in Bangalore central prison

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Yeddyurappa-gets-AC-cell-in-Bangalore-central-prison/articleshow/10417281.cms

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Yeddyurappa-back-in-jail-gets-AC-cell/H1-Article1-758973.aspx

Waah! This is the first time I have heard that jails have AC cells too. They might as well have shifted him to a 5-star deluxe hotel and declare it as a sub-jail, similar to case of Lalu many years ago, shifted to Patna Club, which was declared as a sub-jail. It really pays to be a corrupt politician/chief minister. Lokpal and Lokayukta can go for a long walk.

Amazing India.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 7:17 am
Manohar,

When there are AC cells then somebody has to occupy those.
And yes I fully agree with you that it pays to be a corrupt
politician/chief minister.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 8:28 am
It only proves that in a democracy like ours everybody is equal, but some (*) are more equal than others.

Have a nice day in a great country like ours.

* – crooks, politicians, rich and famous.

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

Dr Shah Alam Khan, came to your unnamed ofice in AIIMS three times in the first week of August and did not find you there. At any rate, I had sworn to leave this blog, but your words and your predicament- you have been called communalist- drew me back.
Cyber friends, most of my friends at AIIMS speak very highly of Shah- he is upright and a great patriot. He is also that rarity amongst muslims- an agnostic or even an atheist, a la Nadeem Piracha of Dawn newspaper.

All three- he, Anna Hazare and Shenoy are being attacked for being communalist unnecessarily- I am compelled to therefore say-
हर इंसान दिल का बुरा नहीं होता, हर उठा हुआ हाथ दुआ का नहीं होता,
बुझ जाते हैं दिये अक्सर अपनी गलतियों से, हर बार कसूर हवा का नहीं होता

Har Insan dil ka bura nahi hota Har utha hua hath dua ka nahi hota Bujh jate hai diye aksar apni galtiyo se Har bar kasur hawa ka nahi hota .

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 5:17 am
Dr.Mishra,

the sher is heart-touching, full of meaning. I heartily welcome you back to the blog. Here, impressions matter greatly. But, it is important to have our say on matters we feel strongly about.

It is, if you really take a close look at it, funny that some bloggers say they don’t care about personalities and they debate issues and if you look at their posts, they mostly contain the all important word, “I” and the rest of their posts are all about attacking personalities!

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 7:19 am
Dr. Mishra,

I heard this sher last night only on KBC where one of the contestant recited this. Very nice one.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1

Dr. Shah Alam Khan;
I am happy to receive your post addressed to me. Only serious discussion will make this blog worth visiting, otherwise trash is all around us. I am seeing Dr. Renu Saxena in next few weeks and if luck helps me, I may have a chance meeting with you as well. wanted to write a detail post but some emergency came to just now and i have to attend to it. Would love to discuss it further.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 5:34 am
Pankaj

You are right – too much trash on this blog and no need to guess.

[Reply]
Shahalamkhan Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 8:38 am
Dear Pankaj ji,
Great! You are more than welcome to come to my room (No 3096) at AIIMS. I am usually available in the room on clinic days which are Monday & Friday. On other days I am in the operation theatre on the first floor. Would love to be in touch.
Truly,
Shah Alam Khan
New Delhi

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

@ balwinder praaha, your dig about inviting Ashish and me to eat humble pie still hurts, haha. Anyway- your words were powerful- ‘ THE SINGLE BIGGEST PEOPLE”S MOVEMENT WHICH HAS ELECTRIFIED PEOPLE FROM THE CHOWKIDAR OF MY FARMHOUSE IN AMRITSAR TO THE MILLIONAIRE PUNJABIS AT MY GURUDWARA HERE IN LONDON’

A bit similar to what I wrote last week- and this is for you Shah Alam-
‘ I saw a KRAANTI in the eyes of millionaire doctors in Corporate hospitals, that I am sad to say is missing from the nay sayers on this blog. They want Kejriwal to be perfect- and in that they have missed the whole BLOODY POINT . Kejriwal is the voice of anguish at the loot of centuries, he is the ankur of a revolution. I care two hoots over his imperfections.

He is rattling the cages which house Amar Singhs, Kanimozhis, Sharad Pawar and Kalmadi- I am happy that someone is doing the dirty task back home which will drag India into the 21 st century of justice and equality. ‘

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 19th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
Mishraji;
Welcome back.
maunju sher yaad nahin aa raha hai. bas
Dekho Rootha na karo—-

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

Dr Alam, Pnkaj, Manohar, Vijay, Shenoy Praveen etc
In AIIMS when I was a n intern in Urology, there was a disgusting habit that some Conusltants employed. A patient would be admitted and then would rot in bed till they decided to operate- 1 week to 3 months later!!!!!
One day, I decided to rattle the cage. At the morning round I announced, ‘Prof, this patient is celebrating!’
Prof asked why.
I said he is celebrating his 100th preop day in the hospital.
————-
why do I tell this simple story- when the rot in society is deep then trying to go thru regular channels takes forever. I rattled a minor cage in 1970, Anna and Kejriwal are rattling a much bigger cage in 2011

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 5:29 am
Dr. Mishra

There are saints and demons in all walks of life and in all the professions. As long as there more saints and the demons can be weeded out, so much the better.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 10:31 am
I think we should all shake up the system. Drop by drop we can create an ocean…

[Reply]
Anonymous

Manohar,
Let us look at the hard facts to find if Sonia can compel MPs to vote for Lokpal in next session. Let us look at current Lok Sabha and number of MPs who are sure to toe Sonia’s line.
1. Congress: 206 (no one can dare say NO to Sonia)
2. NCP: 9 (Sharad Pawar knows CBI can go after him)
3. IUML: 2 (Will support Sonia blindly as they see her as bullwork against BJP)
4. MIM: 1 (Same as IUML)
5. BSP: 21 (CBI ka danda)
6. SP: 23 (CBI ka double danda)
7. RJD 4 (Fodder scam and income case – CBI plus Lalu love for ministry)
8. NC: 3 (Farooque Abdulla owes Omar’s CMShip to Rahul)

That makes it 269 MPs who will surely obey Sonia’s command and then Sonia can use her diplomatic skills to get Trinamool Congress (19 MPs) on her side. Small partners like Kerala Congress, VCK too will fall in line.

Then she can buy some MPs from BJP (party of fools and greedy people)…Job done..as she did in 2008.

Only she can bring in Lokpal or block Lokpal

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 2:38 am
Rajeev

The magic figure is 360+ votes (180+ in Rajya Sabha) for constitutional amendments that will be needed for Lokpal bill to be passed. Your arithmetic falls far short of the numbers needed. Anyway that is not the point.

As in the case of Mohan, you too seem to be convinced about the magnitude of the power that Sonia Gandhi wields across political parties. I am sure the Congress sycophants would love to endorse your view and would be dancing in the streets. IMO, nothing can be further from the truth.

The fact that the political parties will support the LokPal bill on their own volition, because they would not wish to be seen on the wrong side, is a different matter altogether.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:08 am
You are parroting Rahul’s constitutional diversionary tactic. For a simple Lokpal (not constitutional body like EC), you need simple majority.
It looks like you pay lot of attention to utterances of Rahul Gandhi. He made those kind of statement intentionally to delay Jan Lokpal.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:22 am
You should first find out what is being proposed and considered by the standing committee (and it consists of members from all the parties). Some of the proposals like the conduct of the MPs within the house to be brought under the Lokpal would need amendments. These MPs are not going to let go of that immunity – in a way they are right. SO your charge of me parroting Rahul or anybody does not hold.

You have got to hand it out to our founding fathers, who debated and put in a place the constitution. They did a marvellous job.

Simple majority is already there. You do not need Sonia Gandhi for marshalling purposes.

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Demand is to bring Lokpal that is NOT a constitutional body.

The constitutional status to Lokpal is a ploy by Rahul to delay its formation.

Currently in UPA (simple majority), many may not support Lokpal but if SOnia pressurizes them, they will.

DId you see how govt. offered CBI immunity from RTI?

Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Rajeev

You do not seem to get it. There are certain proposed sections/provisions that would need amending the constitution, whether the Lokpal is a constitutional body or not. I hope it is clear to you now.

Whether he wants to delay the bill, only time will tell. Let us wait and see.

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:29 pm
“There are certain proposed sections/provisions that would need amending the constitution”

Do you mind highlighting those provision that require constitutional amendments?
Anonymous

Manohar,
I never said ‘Lay off Shenoy’. I was just pointing to concerted efforts to shoo him away from this blog by some mercenaries.
By all means they a dig at anyone you like but ganging up with intention not to debate but to discourage debate is not healthy (except may be in case of Fake Ravi and Jehadi Tajender).

By the way where is Congress Bhakt Prabhat…Is he done with his shift at McDonalds?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 3:32 am
What you write now is history. He has ceased to exist as far as I am concerned. He is not going get any response from me whether he abuses me, attributes motives, even makes a sensible rejoinders and attempts to provoke me in any other manner. IMO, he is beyond redemption and repair. He can carry on with his irrelevant statements, pronouncements and judgments – and bask in any manner / light he deems fit. I do not care. Period. (This para similar to what I posted last night to tell him).

Prabhat? Ask him, I am not his keeper nor of anyone else.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Vinodji,

you asked, indirectly, of course, “Has this gentleman called on his hero Yeddy in jail?”

You are a busy editor, much in demand for your pearls of wisdom in the HT blogs, articles and-most importantly- around the TV stations. I sometimes wonder how you spread these pearls of wisdom equally in all the TV studios and keep the congress party happy that they are being defended well.

Therefore, it is easy for you to forget or ignore what I had said when Yeddy first came under the Hegde scanner, and what I have repeated so many times later-that I consider Yeddyurappa a petty thief (the word ‘petty’ is used here in a relative sense), that he has embarrassed the party no end and he should quit. I had also said that he should expect to be jailed for his crimes.

Even then I had gone to the Parappana Agrahar jail to meet my ‘friend’.
But I was disappointed not to find him there.
I was told that he was taken to the court.
I went to the court only to be told that he is in the hospital.
I went to the hospital only to be told that he is in some other hospital.
When I went to that hospital, I was told that he is back in the jail.

I hope, when he is through with these chakkars, he may call me himself.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 6:43 am
Shenoy Saab

Mr Vinod likes to tickle you once in a while

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Praveen Saxenaji,

My reply to his tickling (it is not ticklish, mercifully) question was given in jest too.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Dr Shah Alam Khan

It has been a pleasure reading your posts, for which you have been slammed and called a communalist and related labels too, then conciliatory posts(!) by others. Strange are the ways of this world.

01) Anna Hazare Movement. It surely has been farce as things change day by day, hour by hour. Poor Anna – the clowns as you have rightly called them (and IMO many of them megalomaniacs) made him sit on a tiger and now he is unable to get off. They put words in his mouth, which he did not believe in or was not aware of or hadn’t given thought to or had to issue clarifications or deny them. Credibility be damned. How he runs his village is topic for some other time.

The movement has clearly picked up a wrong issue and the means highly questionable (threats included – I will fast unto death, changing the goal posts midway, etc. etc., akin crying wolf wolf once too often) – trying to find a cure for instead of prevention of the disease. Of course, it was great show for the TV channels to boost their TRPs, more importantly name and fame for the protagonists. As someone in an earlier blog has asked – who wants to see a malnutritioned hungry children and adults (clad in almost nothing) in some godforsaken hamlet in some dusty part of the country – one would rather watch a repeat telecast of 2378th episode of Bigg Boss with the best of Johnnie Walker and succulent kebabs from Karims/Bade Mian/… laid out in front.

About the fast. Here was one man well into his old age fasting for the good of the country. Next door the clowns arrange meals for the crowds (running into thousands) – how ironic. Perhaps that was the only way to attract mobs and tell the Government – look we have the numbers.

We have people highly qualified/educated and professionals in their own right who have hailed this nauTanki/tamaashaa as some kind of “greatest revolution” and mother of all cures for all the ills of the country and turn it into a Shangri La. It is too much of a bother to separate the wheat from the chaff. To many it was/is just a stick to beat some enemy or a demon with. Talk of gullibility.

The most often repeated refrain – on the Internet and elsewhere – “Anna aap fast karo aur aage baDho, hum aapke saath hain”. Having expressed their solidarity, these “supporters” promptly go and dine in the best Chinese restaurant in the swankiest mall in town.

The fact that the cure (*) the civil society is seeking to impose on this country is worse than the disease is also lost on this section of the populace. The country may end up in spending Rs 10000 or 20000 or whatever crores to have this monster (LokPal) in our midst to catch corruption worth Rs 500 crores at most – given the track record of our agencies -the police, the CBI and what have you. Instead the money could well be spent in strengthening the existing laws, agencies, eliminating the loopholes and the bottlenecks, the leakages, etc., but then this is no entertainment – zero TRPs.

Worrying and doing something concrete about the most disadvantageous sections of the society is the least of their priorities. Where is the time for such “thankless” (and worse with no TV cameras around) tasks.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Witch hunt continues. No one will be spared. Congress is trying its best to
isolate Anna.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Kiran-Bedi-accused-of-inflating-bills-says-no-personal-gain/articleshow/10425634.cms

No

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 11:20 am
This is the world of Indian politics – no kid glove treatment for anyone.

At this stage, I would rather believe Ms. Bedi than what the Congress is alleging. Let us wait and see, when more details come out.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
I won’t be surprised if Kiran Bedi did make MISTAKES in her expense sheet but can Digvijay compare it with Kalmadi Bhai’s loot or A.Rajaji’s loot?

I think DIgvijay is on mission to defeat Congress..I think all parties should encourage Digvijay’s efforts.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Another VDIS scheme by government ? Black money in foreign countries
is being converted into white money by paying tax .

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/France-gave-info-about-Rs-400-crore-black-money-Pranab/articleshow/10421774.cms

[Reply]
Anonymous

@Manohar T, I have taken a sabbatical from this blog . However yours was one worth stumbling upon.Is it just possible , THE ROOT OF IT ALL , lies the evil bramhinical caste ridden hindu society. Thus there is so much INDIFFERENCE and CALLOUSNESS at the starvation of millions of FELLOW indians. Then accordng to BRAMHINICAL CASTE RULES , they ARE NOT WORTHY OF COMPASSION , they are beyond the pale. In fact the very basis of caste is YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYBODY OTHER THAN YOUR CASTE.
Thus NDTV’s Hungry Kya programme , doesn’t even lead to a whisper campaign , yet the rabble rousers in Clown Anna team , with their cacophony HOG THE LIMELIGHT or at least the IDIOT BOX

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Your query – why this callousness towards state of the downtrodden of the society? Now one would need to put on the thinking cap and perhaps able to find out the reason(s) in the coming days. Our time starts now.

[Reply]
http://dealstop.co.uk Larry

Vinod Sharma on Times Now debate says “You’ve allowed Swapan Das too much time to destroy Congress work” LOL! timesnow.tv/Debate-Ajit-Singh-Congress-tie-up—2/videoshow/4386887.cms

[Reply]
Anonymous

Dr shan or cingulatedgyrys, whatever, you were silent on the 3 million deaths ar the hands of britishers in bengal famine, so dont bullshit about brshmins as cause of all evil. You in fact with your white asss licking ways which we called swethalingam aakarshan, tried to wish it away.
Pl you keep away on another long sabbatical, you add nothing to blog other than tajender or engrich type manusmrity buullcrap. Moron, calls himself doctor!!

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
still shan is far better than u and dr mishra.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Balwinderji,

You have spoken for most of us and forthrightly too.
This Brahminist c.rap is totally Tajender-like.

Shann Nirad Babu should at leastjustify the esteem the Britishers had for Nirad Babu for his white a.ss-licking for nearly a century.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Vijay Kumar, Mohan, Pankaj ji, Balwinderji, Dr.Mishra, Rajiv and Rajiv, Mohan,

the congress party si at its old game of dispensing favours in poll-bound states. It has issued petrol bunk licences to more than 11500 party leaders and vote banks.
http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/editorials/petrol-pump-bonanza-shows-congress-desperation/325008.html

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
This is called mass bribing of voters..(which is also practiced by BJP in crude way. Remember Sari stampede in Lucknow).

EC should take a note of this corruption.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@ Shenoy,

Quite shamefull

[Reply]
Anonymous

In next winter session, Congress will bring in its version of Lokpal. It has started working on it already.
1. Attack on team Anna including the physical one have started.
2. Some members of Team Anna are being discredited.
3. Congressi supporters have left Anna camp after Hisar defeat.

Now to force MPs to vote for CONGRESSI version of Lokpal, they are unchaining the dog called CBI…Here is the news from Congressi newspaper-

http://www.hindustantimes.com/CBI-got-RTI-exemption-without-wanting-it/H1-Article1-759291.aspx

CBI got RTI exemption without wanting it?

At a time when it’s reeling under allegations of scams and scandals, official documents show that the government gave the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) more immunity from the Right to Information (RTI) Act than what the agency had originally sought. The issue of how much immunity

the CBI should get was bounced between several government departments, committees and officials that questioned the agency’s demand of partial immunity, all of which ended up with it being kept completely outside RTI.
Legal opinion was repeatedly sought by the government for the right advice and the right request from the CBI. This has been revealed in a set of confidential documents, ironically released through RTI to activist Subhash Agarwal.

A CBI official conceded that the agency sensed the government wanted to give them a blanket exemption and played along. Asked to interpret the series of events that ended with CBI out of RTI, a senior government official said: “It isn’t unusual to seek clarifications till everyone comes to the same point.”

The CBI’s original demand around January 2011 was for exemption of intelligence collection, internal analysis of evidence and its sources from RTI.

But the department of personnel that implements RTI found the request “vague” and asked for a fresh proposal.

In mid-February, the CBI gave its fresh proposal. This time, it wanted exemption from the RTI Act in all matters but was willing to release information relating to “administration, personnel, accounts/finance, budget and training.”

The department for personnel and training (DoPT) first sought the law ministry’s opinion on the CBI partial exemption request.

The then Solicitor General Gopal Subarmanium stated: “CBI officers need to be protected from dangers… the request for partial exemption is justified.”

This opinion was, however, rejected by the committee of secretaries, saying “it was not practical… and legally advisable”.

The matter was sent back to the law ministry with a specific request to seek the opinion of the Attorney General, GE Vahanvati. He said: “…the CBI does intelligence work which is directly related to security agencies….therefore it is legally feasible to put it in the list of organisations exempt from the RTI,” he said.

Disagreeing with Subramanium, Vahanvati stated :”I do not agree that there should be any qualification with regard to the exemption….”

Moily endorsed the AG’s opinion, and soon after the secretaries panel also gave its nod to keep the CBI, NIA and the NATGRID out of RTI.

On June 8, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who holds the cabinet charge of DoPT, put his seal of approval on the decision.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Just watched TimesNow debate on Congress Alliance with Ajit Singh (RLD – Party of Jats opposed to Dalits. Pl. note Rahul is wooing Dalit with his food stealing antics at the same time).

Our Vinod Sharma sounded and behaved like Kumar Ketkar in this debate. I think he should maintain his dignity unlike Ketkar.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:59 am
Rajeev,

will you, at least now agree with my comment that there is a rivalry between these two editors for catching Sonia Gandhi’s eye?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:28 pm
I think you are right..Vinod Sharma gets choked with emotions while defending Congress…He may be nearer to a Rajya Sabha nomination..We wish him luck.

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================
~~~ GADAFFI GONE…. NEXT ACTION. LIKELY TO BE PAKISTAN ~~~
==============================================================

NObody could ever visualise a world withut Gadaffi.

But the west was not going to swallow the insult of the lockerbie bombing and the bomb in an American disco. Basically 270 + 2 deaths.

now interestngly the ISI and Pakistan have killed about 2000 Americans in Afghanista, the latest being the embassy bombing. Plus they hid Osama.

I have a gut feeling that the raging bull US, will take some action in Pakistan, but does not know where to start.

Time for funa and games in our neighbourhood. We got to watch out that the Pakistanis dont drag India into the war, though…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:57 am
Vijay Kumar,

Like they bumped off Zia-ul Huq, the Americans can invite Kiyani for an inspection of their latest stealth bomber and while in the air, they can press the remote and blow him off.

And then, we can ask the question: in an air crash, where is Kiyani?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 7:58 am
@ Shenoy

Kiyani kin ha rahegi nishani…

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:09 am
what a fight they put up against world powers do not be ashamed ghaddafi you won against cowards cameron sarcosy

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================
~~~ GADAFFI GONE…. NEXT ACTION. LIKELY TO BE PAKISTAN ~~~
==============================================================

NObody could ever visualise a world withut Gadaffi.

But the west was not going to swallow the insult of the lockerbie bombing and the bomb in an American disco. Basically 270 + 2 deaths.

now interestngly the ISI and Pakistan have killed about 2000 Americans in Afghanista, the latest being the embassy bombing. Plus they hid Osama.

I have a gut feeling that the raging bull US, will take some action in Pakistan, but does not know where to start.

Time for funa and games in our neighbourhood. We got to watch out that the Pakistanis dont drag India into the war, though…

[Reply]
Anonymous

Yes Vijay for the first time I am hopeful as US is massing troops on border with Waziristan. And Kayani has thundered, ee are nuclear armed , beware. As long as India clevrrly keeps low profile, we ate ok. We can with US assent support balochistan quietly.
For Anna it may be corruption only but I think Indias biggest problems are
Illiteracy
Pakistan
Maoism
Islamists
Poverty, healthcare and clean water
THE BIGGEST, DISUNITY

[Reply]
Dr Mishra Reply:
October 20th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
agree with most praaji, but I am looking for an Anna who will take on
1. Population. 2. Lack of swaabhimaan

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:20 am
the sole aim of his movement is to establish dictatorship of brhmns through lokpal bill in india.

population can be decreased with education.&removal of poverty.for which anna has no say.swabhhimaan means killing shdraas through war.as high caste is seldom killed.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:53 am
Balwinderji, Dr.Mishra, Vijay Kumar,

Right at the present moment, Anna may be a single point crusader.
But, look at at it this way:
Right at this moment, corruption is the single, most deadly disease afflicting India.
30 years ago, Rajiv Gandhi had said that under his party’s long rule of India, only 15% of all developmental funds and benefits reached the beneficiary.

Now, under his family’s rule, funds have become funda’s, plans have become money-making schemes, commonwealth Games have become games for making wealth.

Therefore, crores of Indians have reposed their faith in Anna’s crusade, so that he may raise this percentage of pilferage, short-changing etc to a highere level, so that maximum people can benefit and India becomes a strong country.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 5:04 am
correction: so that he may reduce this percentage of pilferage, short-changing, etc. and raise his fight to a higher level

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:14 am
replace khalistan with pakistan,and hindu terrorism with islamic radicalism.
regarding disunity,unity in diversity is our culture.rss is the local franchize
of international divisive forces in india.
pakistan is problem,but india has problem with all its neighbours.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 8:55 am
@ Balwinder

You are right.. we should keep a low profile and let the two fight it out..

Basic philosphy should now be, “Saunu Ki …. “

[Reply]
Anonymous

Yes Vijay for the first time I am hopeful as US is massing troops on border with Waziristan. And Kayani has thundered, ee are nuclear armed , beware. As long as India clevrrly keeps low profile, we ate ok. We can with US assent support balochistan quietly.
For Anna it may be corruption only but I think Indias biggest problems are
Illiteracy
Pakistan
Maoism
Islamists
Poverty, healthcare and clean water
THE BIGGEST, DISUNITY

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================
~~~ WHY pakistan should be SCARED ~~and ~~ we should ENJOY ~~~~
==============================================================

For over 3 decades, Pakistan has played a deadly, decietful game. It fed and bred terrorists to bleed the world. And then acted like a hurt martyr to claim aid from all over the world.

And again fed and bred terrorists as it had found the perfect economic model. Breed terrorists and ask for aid to eliminate them.

But… while we in India suffered from 1980 onwards because of militancy in Punjab which was then transported to J&K and whole of India, Pakistan laughed like a hyena.

Unfortunately the game is over for now. The US which was partly responsible for funding Pakistan and militancy in 1980 is the hardest hit by it in Afganistan and 9/11 terror. Till now it tolerated it. But the American public…and the world for which their presidents do everything has seen Osama and heard Mike MUllen. Once such statements are made, the US WILL not turn a blind eye, even though it still may have love for its illegitimate child– Pakistan.

Basically duniya and the American public will start thinking t hat the US is impotent, in case it does not take action.

It lost 38,000 troops in the now forgotten Korean war. 58.000 in the Vietnam war.

Where it was just a question of ideology.

Out here it is a direct Paksitani assault and challenge.

Something huge jmay just happen.

First unilateral , brutal bombings on the Haqqani group.

And in case Pakistanis protest too much… maybe direct bombing in Punjab and Sindh on terrorist groups.

THe fun may just begin….

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Vijay,
It could happen but I am worried about the implications for India.
Americans are notorious for starting a fire and not putting it out. See their record in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If now they turn their attention to Pakistan, we will have a destabilized country next door. I am worried. That country has no clear chain of command, at any given point, 3 or more chains of command- just the visible ones. As it is, a significant number of Pakistanis think India, Israel and US is one and the same. So, the response to the American action might just be felt by India in terms of increased militancy.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@ Ashish

I think we need to worry anyway with a neighbour like Pakistan. My own feeling is that in case no action is taken now… some ISI trained Jehadi group could well launch a nuclear dirty bomb on us in not too distant a time framework. Maybe attack a nuclear installation.

Remember, they were willing to blow up the entire Parliament and then staged 26/11.

“it was the non state actors… and not us who did it,” Pakistanis would gloat.

So in case the US is willing to take them on right now, I think we should welcome the occasion.

Yes outwardly let us play the Zia-ul Haq, smiling cobra game. “O jee.. praa ji.. we are long lost brothers.”

That sort of sh-it which fools our innocent peaceniks like Vinod Sharma and scared peaceniks like Mani Aiyar.

Let us be prepared for the worst. Worrying wont help. The US wll ride in like Charles Bronson and probably retreat like it did in Vietnam after causing devastation. We should just keep the facade of being strong and merciless so that the Pakistani Army is not tempted to get India into the war.

Logically they wont. Fighting the yanks would occupy them for some time.

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Agree with you Vijay. It is not possible to live in constant fear that if pakistan is punished by a third party for its perfidy, will we be punished? This is absurd. Pakistan should reap what it sowed.
Ashish, do not mean to be rude but let us admit, for whatever reason, we do not have guts to punish this goon, which goes by name Pakistan. If some body else is trying to discipline it, we shoul support the head master whole heartedly.

AshishC Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Pankaj,
US does not share a land border (heck, it is multiple time-zones away!) like we do with Pakistan. Obama can sit in his Rose Garden and press a few buttons- okay, this is for Rawalpindi and this one is for Waziristan and so on. What can Pakistan do to retaliate against US? Bust some dirty bombs?
But, we do share a land border with a rogue state- that does not have a clear “Mukhiya”.
Who runs Pakistan? Which part?
I would feel more sanguine about US “initiatives” in Pakistan but, the US track record in such initiatives is not good. And, Pakistan is too toxic.

Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 8:28 pm
Ashish;
Sorry, for some reason, I am unable to understand your argument. I am not saying that go nuke the Pindi or occupy Lahore. But why we are shivering in our boots, that US is punishing pakistan?? if in frustration, they unleash their jehadis, use your cold start doctrine. If they nuke you, you obliterate pakistan. sorry to say, it is same as a mohalla gunda, when he crosses his limits, he has to be punished severely. I can write a book on this, but like you, do not have much time with me.

AshishC Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 5:41 am
Pankaj,
Firstly, I think a lot of US talk is posturing- they understand the perils of getting involved in a protracted mess- especially if it will involve committing troops. Pakistan’s utility to US is that it helps keep the supply lines open through its borders- the Iran border is for obvious reasons not accessible.
Now, I do not worry for Pakistan – but I worry for India.
I think US intervention in Pakistan, however unlikely I think it is, will only fuel radicalism- the US may go and bomb or otherwise act against the Haqani network. This will put the Pakistani establishment- army, ISI, government and the non-state actors under pressure to show their might to their own people.
They can’t do much against the US; guess where their adventurism will be directed?
I for one do not want a war or even a major skirmish or heightened militancy- it takes away resources for nation-building.
I am also under no illusion that US necessarily sees its interests as coterminous with India’s. We have NEVER received more than lip-service and sympathy from the US. In case Pakistan’s actors (state and non-state) decide to increase their activities along their eastern border- US will not lift a finger to help.
I am not saying we are not capable of winning a conventional or even a nuclear battle with Pakistan. But, at what cost?
If they nuke you, you obliterate pakistan. sorry to say, it is same as a mohalla gunda, when he crosses his limits, he has to be punished severely.
If Pakistan nukes us, it will take out 5/ 6 cities. I am not of course suggesting that as a possibility- but, if you are, are you prepared to let Mumbai, Delhi, Chandigarh, Jaipur, Agra etc disappear? And let a 100 million Indians perish- even if we kill all the 187 million Pakistanis in retaliation, even assuming we are capable of that?
Is it worth it?

Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Ashish;
It seems that to you, I am sounding jingoistic. Far from it, given half the chance, I would like to finish visa regime of both countries, free exchange of news, periodicals and what not. Problem is that, Pakistan thinks, I mean, is convinced that just by rogue methods, since it has now , BOMB, it can intimidate every one, more so India, and under that umbrell of bomb, will nibble at Indian resources. This is slow war in place of worst case you presented. Now this state of affairs can not continue indefinitely. I know, US has only its national interests supreme. Incidentally, US and Indian interests are coinciding. So let it be.Discredited pak Army is more amenable to their civil society and may be civilian will get an upper hand in near future, if pakistani myth is shattered a la Germany, Italy, Turkey, Japan.

AshishC Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Vijay,
The US wll ride in like Charles Bronson and probably retreat like it did in Vietnam after causing devastation.
that is precisely my worry- what the US will leave behind will be another Afghanistan; and, I have no stomach for another Afghanistan next door.
However, that does not mean I advocate doing nothing- The US should really stop all military aid and even civilian aid – unless strictly audited for purpose and actual spending.
There are enough economic carrots and sticks that can be used.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 10:55 am
Ashish,

there is a difference this time, because Pakistan is already burning in a blaze of fire, and will burn itself out before the American or international fire brigades arrive. Therefore, let us sit back and relax.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:52 am
Shenoy,
isn’t that pretty much what we do?

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:13 pm
Vijay

IMO, the Americans will only go after those groups (with Pakistan pretending to look the other way and then make noise later about violation of its sovereignty), who rub them the wrong way in Afghanistan. For example, the Haqqani group. For the moment, they will not touch terrorist groups like the LET, JUD, etc.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Vinodji says, “Somewhat unfairly branded a Congress Trojan Horse, Swami Agnivesh quit (or was eased out) some weeks ago.”

For weeks like a peacock, strutted on Anna’a platform Agnivesh
Cool, articulate, the Swami argued, debated, but never in aavesh
He was always the trusted counsellor, in control of any sannivesh
who could have thought that he was a congress spy in chhadmavesh?

[Reply]
Anonymous

Friends, here is a real, “mind blowing” idea:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=209351499131312&set=a.199641670102295.51050.199623573437438&type=1&ref=nf

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Good one

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Shenoy Sahab;
saw this separately. not a bad idea, as ideas go. ha.

[Reply]
engrich

anna is ghandhian,
1) In mid 1918, Gandhi supported the War Conference main resolution of recruiting Indians to fight on the side of Britain and her allies if it ensured the acceptance of Congress-Muslim League scheme for Home Rule.

2) Gandhi wrote to the Viceory that he wanted to be “Recruiter-in-Chief” for the Empire

3) Gandhi stated in an interview to News Chronicle, London, that the Viceroy could remain in charge of military operations and India could be used as a base for such military operations provided that a National Government was immediately formed.

4) In an interview with Lord Wavell on August 27, 1946, Gandhi told him that “If India wants a bloodbath, she shall have it.”

[Reply]
Anonymous

Occupy Wall Street Protests
——————————————

The aim of the protests

The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

1) How do the protests -spreading to other parts of the world too – help in achieving their aim? Do these protests have the critical mass to really be effective.

2) Will the Governments intervene? In what way?

3) Will the corporates listen? What (corrective) action will they take?

Any answers!

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@ Manohar

I dont think it is all that simple. The big picture is that the world suffers from industrial overcapacity and the most efficient producer is CHina with communist style ruthless labour laws.

Jobs wont shift back to the US or London till they start manufacturing and to do it cheap thye need protection barriers.

99% against 1% may be evocative, but hardly true. The stock market of India has offten being credited for getting us lot of foreign capital and also for making many a middle class guy rich

Though in my case it has only given me tears…

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Vijay

I have not paid much attention to these protests. My interest was aroused a little, because Dr. Shah Alam Khan has been requesting some of us to talk about it. Hence my queries.

My primary question is – will these protests achieve anything or end up as a ‘nauTanki’? Even if the Government and the Corporate honchos sit up and take notice, what are the alternatives. Have these protesters said explicitly what concrete actions they expect from the other side (I drew a blank)? Finally, do they have the numbers on their side – though I will admit it is early days as of now?

Of course, in these democratic countries, they are not going to follow Chinese practices and policies. Who knows these protests may spread into China too. What do you think?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@ Manohar

China.. and I know a little about it as I have travelled pretty extensively there has created a perfect cage for its inhabitants,

It has broken the shackels of poverty as in India by exporting to all countries in the world at low prices and thus managed to give industrial employment to most of its citizens. And sort of told them— boys, all the unions and strikes are for the rest of the world… out here, it is perfect discipline.

So I really dont know whether the protests would spread there as the citizens remember the tabad tod poverty of maoists era as well as the human right murder which existed then,

They have controlled the internet. I remember when the Egyptian protests were on, the Chinese search engine stopped registering the word Egypt ! In fact (my guess) if you typed Egypt 5 times, a beep would probably go up in the party office and you would be directed to a site for moral re-education. But that is communism. Loved in India by our Maoists… hated out there…

I hope the wall street protest dont lead to protectionism. Our industrial and software prodicts to the US and EU are dependent on open markets. Yes… the corporate world has to have more laws which makes mandatry that nobaody suffers when markets melt. Or on why share markets not the best indicatos ot indvidual and corporate growth,,,

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Your details about China was illuminating, but besides the point. My questions remain unanswered. Never mind.

When we can be protective about our economy with all sorts of measures, why can’t these countries have protectionist laws for the good of their own people and the economy?

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 7:16 pm
@ Manohar

If they get protectionist… then we could knock out our growth story of las 20 years. Knock out softweare growth atory also. We have a good trade balance against most countires except oil producing or china…

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 3:17 am
Each country has to and will look after its people and its interests. If it “genuinely” reaches out to others, well and good. Otherwise, one has to live with it.

Having said that – funds always chase goods and services that give value for money. So your worry that our growth story will go for a toss is bit alarmist.

The world trade today is much more freer today than earlier and we are part of it – though our economy is dependent upon it to the extent of only about 15% to 20%. In earlier times, we were one of the most protectionist countries (outside the Communist block) with all sorts of draconian measures in place. Dr. Manmohan Singh started the process in 1992 to dismantle the “protective” wall we had built around us.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 9:25 am
@ Manohar

Dont be so relaxed Manohar. Many a time I need to deal with potential foreign investors.

As long as it was INdia shining it was all gung ho.

But with Raja, and scams occupying the headlines… many many feel that China is a more comfortable place to be in. We are the argumentative Indians.

We dont move forward. We just argue…
Anonymous

Tandon,

You said
“There are certain proposed sections/provisions that would need amending the constitution”

Do you mind highlighting those provision that require constitutional amendments?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Some of them I can think of, provided these are included in the proposed bill. We will know once the standing committee finalizes the draft. The Jan Lok Pal bill wold have required one too many amendments.

1) The conduct of MPs/Legislators in their respective houses – Parliament / State Legislatures. Not going to be easy. IMO, the conduct of the MPs within the house must not be brought under the LokPal, the Speaker and the disciplinary committee is there to deal with these matters and also supremacy of the parliament is maintained. It is like a someone appoints and tells X that he/she monitor his (appointing authority) actions too. Just not done.

2) To implement Loyayukta act uniform across all states – as this would be encroaching upon the powers of the states, who would be loathe to let go that power and it may need passing of relevant provisions by the state legislatures, who may not play ball. (I am not sure though, as I am not lawyer).

3) To make LokPal a constitutional body like the Election Commission / CAG.

Then depending upon the powers (which I am not aware of at the moment) that the LokPal will have – constitutional amendments may be necessary.

Having said that the Supreme Court is there to strike down any unconstitutional provisions.

IMO, as and when this LokPal comes into existence, it will be an expensive adjunct to the existing structure with no substantial benefits and a waste of tax payers’ money. Perhaps providing employment to thousands, that is all.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Tandon,
1. This doesn’t require any constitutional amendment but it does require sanction by speaker to try the errant MP/MLA.

2. I agree with you on second one but it is not related to constitutional amendment. The states can get State Lok-Ayukta on their own by Center can not force it on them. However Central Jan Lokpal will be untouched by this issue.

3. There is no proposal by any one except for Congress to make it constitutional body.

The gist of the argument is that a SIMPLE Central Jan Lokpal can be brought in without any constitutional amendments (same as on the lines of NIA).

Point 3 by Rahul is mischievous trick to delay formation of Jan Lokpal. It is in his and his family interest to delay Lokpal as much as possible as he doesn’t want Bofors opened up again.

Regarding the wastage, Rajya Sabha itself is gross wastage of tax payers money and then NIA and ATS too are waste of tax payer money. Also the perks given to MPs and MLAs…there is no end to wastage in our country so let us not make it an excuse for not fighting corruption.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:45 pm
I only wish that you would check up facts before putting forth your views on and on.

Your one point agenda is that Rahul Gandhi and the Congress is raising the bogey of constitutional amendments to delay the Lokpal bill and you are under some notion no constitutional amendments are necessary to get the bill though. I have no problem with what your thinking is.

Perhaps the following will clear the cobwebs, as you do not seem to understand the importance and the place of the Parliament in our system of governance.

————

The Indian constitution is clear that the proceedings in parliament are not subject to judicial scrutiny. It clearly lays down immunities, powers and privileges of members of legislature. The supreme court had endorsed the constitutional position. Parliamentary precedents exist on expulsion

Articles 105 and 122 of the Indian constitution clearly restrict the judiciary from intervention in the business of the legislature. Article 122 (1) states, ‘The validity of any proceedings in parliament shall not be called in question on the ground of any alleged irregularity of procedure.’ Article 122 (2) explains, ‘No officer or member of Parliament in whom powers are vested by or under this Constitution for regulating procedure or the conduct of business, or for maintaining order, in Parliament shall be subject to the jurisdiction of any court in respect of the exercise by him of those powers.’

Article 105 (2) gives judicial immunities to the conduct and behaviour of any member of parliament: ‘No Member of Parliament shall be liable to any proceedings in any court in respect of anything said or any vote given by him in Parliament or any committee therefore, and no person shall be so liable in respect of the publication by or under the authority of either House of Parliament of any report, paper, votes or proceedings.’ Article 194 (2) grants the same immunities to the members of the state legislative assemblies.

The second issue pertains to the powers and privileges of the legislature and its members. Article 105 explains the powers and privileges of parliament and its members; and article 194 replicates the same provision for the legislative assembly and its members. Article 105 (1) gives freedom of speech in parliament and article 105 (2) gives immunity to freedom of speech and freedom to vote in the house and its committee from judicial proceedings. But other rights and privileges of the house and its members are left un-codified. Article 105 (3) reads ‘In other respects, the powers, privileges and immunities of each House, shall be such as may from time to time be defined by Parliament by law, and, until, so defined, shall be those of that House and of its members and committees immediately before the coming into force of section 15 of the Constitution Forty-fourth Amendment Act 1978.’ Before this amendment, it was provided that powers, privileges, and immunities of parliament and its member shall be those of the house of commons as it was before the commencement of the Indian constitution.

———–

When Judiciary cannot interfere, how can the LokPal interfere without any constitutional amendment(s)?

With this question, this topic closed as far as I am concerned.

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Lokpal is going to be investigating agency on the lines of NIA…Did they do constitutional amendment to do that? NO..

You are treating Rahul blabbering as Gospel truth. The congress party is trying every trick to derail Lokpal formation. These tricks include discrediting movement, activists and then throwing the idea of Constitutional Lokpal (which is not the demand).

All people are asking is create LOKPAL as an investigating agency to investigate corruption cases on the lines of NIA and CBI.

For me this topic is closed because you are from the camp that doesn’t want corrupt to be investigated…May be this is the reason you consider Congress as party of hope…It is party of hope for people who want status quo but people are fed up with current state of affairs..

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 8:32 pm
May be conduct of MPs and MLAs can be investigation after getting sanction from speaker as is currently being done by CBI.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 2:38 am
My favourite line – you still do not get it. Iwish you had taken the trouble read up in detail what this Lokpal bill about, its provisions and its ramifications.

That is for their actions and (mis)deeds outside of the Parliament – indulging in crime, cheating and what have you.

Please make note that their is a clear cut difference between the conduct of the elected representatives inside the house and the actions & (mis)deeds outside.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 3:53 am
So why did court punish JMM MPs for bribery case? How was that done?

Pl. cite the constitutional amendment under which JMM MPs were tried for accepting bribe to save CONGRESS’s govt..

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:16 am
You do not even know what the apex court has decided.

Take the trouble of reading the following

http://www.airwebworld.com/articles/index.php?article=1449

—————

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/jmm-bribery-case-returns-to-haunt-shibu-sore/360653/

Exceprt
“However, in a controversial judgement, the apex court held that according to Article 105 (2) of the Constitution, the MPs were not liable for anything said or any vote given in Parliament”.

Ignorance and half-baked information, anyone?

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 5:18 am
Rajeev,

the JMM MPs were let off by the SC, because, in their ‘considered’ opinion, the money, in the SB accounts of the MPs, though found to be illegally credited, was to be considered as action inside the house, so not justiciable! Now, a lower court has jailed MPs for showing cash inside the house!

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 2:54 am
“You are treating Rahul blabbering as Gospel truth. The congress party is trying every trick to derail Lokpal formation. These tricks include discrediting movement, activists and then throwing the idea of Constitutional Lokpal (which is not the demand).”

I am not. It seems you do not even read what I write (you probably did not even bother to read the extracts above pr did not understand it). When I am not even in favour having this monster (lokPal) in our midst. So your conclusion about my treatment of Rahul Gandhi proposal as gospel truth is downright untrue and defies logic. As a MP, he has all the rights to put forth his views and ideas – you may rubbish them or question his motives or whatever. It is for the parliament to decide whether to take cognizance of any MP’s suggestions and proposal or not.

There you go again – that I am in favour of Congress and in favour of status quo, blah, blah, blah. You think this way, be my guest.
Nothing can be further from the truth.

Good, we have discussed this enough. Topic closed.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 3:52 am
You are just repeating congress lines..Basically that of a obstructionists…Rahul Gandhi is just an MP not PM..

Topic closed as we can never agree on Lokpal because you want Congress’s Lokpal whereas I am for Jan Lokpal.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 2:56 am
“All people are asking is create LOKPAL as an investigating agency to investigate corruption cases on the lines of NIA and CBI”.

It seems that you do not even know what the Lokpal bill is about.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 3:50 am
It looks like you don’t know anything about JAN Lokpal.

Case closed.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 5:13 am
Rajeev,

from the so called debate you are having with this very capable debater, either ‘you don’t get it’ or ‘your brain is clogged’ or ‘your head is full of cob webs’ etc. All those who say and assert that even jan lokpal bill, with stringent clauses, can be passed by the parliament by a simple majority not requiring any constitutional amendment, like Kejriwal, Prashant Bhushan, shanti Bhushan and all others including Justice Hegde be damned. They are, as has been proved by this outstanding debater, full of cob webs in their brains

Why? Because this outstanding debater says so. Why does he say so? Because gaffe prone Amul Baby has said so. Got it, Rajeev?

Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Regarding wastage – my point was about the LokPal. You are free to think what other institutions/authorities/whatever are a waste of money. I am not going to argue with you on this. You have your views, I have mine.
Anonymous

First about that buffon balwinder.Sikhs licked english boots , to the extent that the SEPOY MUTINY , known as india’s first war of independence WAS CRUSHED ONLY BECAUSE SIKH SOLDIERS lifted the siege of BRITISH at LUCKNOW.If the british were crushed at that uprising ,India would have independent 150 yrs earlier.
ALSO WE ALL KNOW HOW THEY WERE USED AS CANNON FODDERS in the fields of belgium duringww1, protecting England from german soldiers.
THIS DIMWIT CABBAGE HEAD LECTURES US ABOUT PATRIOTISM.
I still maintain CASTEISM /BRAMHINICAL HEGEMONY will HOLD BACK INDIA REALISING ITS FULL POTENTIAL.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Cingulated Dr Shan, why you try so many disguises and IDs, your childish idiocy shrills thru. For the hundredth time, what my community or ancestors do is stupid debate. But what u as individual vomit here weekly, is more imp.
Your white lingam sucking, given sanskritised description of SWETHALINGAM UPBHOGTA , Shenoy at vrry best, is about you. Dr Shantanu Mondol u got MBBS on reservation, made it to Europe cos of massive shortage of junior doctors, ThANK YR BLOODY STARS. Do not spend rest of yr life bashing forward castes. This is debate of inteligence here, take yr tired podts elsewhere, u cockroach Dr SHAN,

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 21st, 2011 at 10:55 pm
No Mandal has ever matched the gaddari of Indira Gandhi’s bodyguards, or that of Babbar Khalsa eating the drip out of pakistan’s a r s e .
99% of your biradri entered UK through KABUTERBAJI including you.
How many more karname you need me to post , which shows any crookery in UK , be it drug smuggling , sham marriage racket , human trafficking it is always either a Bains, or Kalra , or Dhillon or SANDHU

This is what BBC undercover investigation found
A network of criminality in one of the UK’s largest illegal immigrant communities has been exposed by an undercover BBC News investigation.

Widespread unlawful job practices, squalid housing, and a thriving trade in fake documents were uncovered.

More than 40 houses packed with illegal immigrants were identified in one square mile of Southall, west London.

The young, mostly male Punjabis are not here lawfully and, although most know the risks, they have few legal rights.

They are surrounded by forgers, criminals and ruthless employ

[Reply]
Anonymous

More “feathers” in Modi’s cap (oops!)

1) India Human Development Report raps Gujarat, praises UP and Bihar

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-Human-Development-Report-raps-Gujarat-praises-UP-and-Bihar/articleshow/10446060.cms

2) Mayawati bursts Narendra Modi’s economic growth myth

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mayawati-bursts-Narendra-Modis-economic-growth-myth/articleshow/10446867.cms

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 3:49 am
This is nothing to be happy about..Why are you discriminating among Indians? Are poor gujaratis not Indians?

However look carefully, most of the congress ruled states have fared poorly.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:05 am
I am not happy about any Indian (Gujaratis included) not able to live with dignity. Read my post addressed to Dr. Khan, if you care to read it.

This is about bursting the myth about Modi – the “best thing” to ever happened to India and all others are duffers, blah, blah, blah.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:55 am
Further more Raju Ramchandaran has reccomended that Modi be charged with making inflamatory sppeches during the Godra Riots.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:37 am
As congressis have infilterated every walk of life..I am not surprised Raju Ramchandran’s comments ignoring SIT finding.

The congressis have toxified all govt. institutions and the only way to move forward it to free all govt. institutions of all these influences..(including RSS if any).

Let law prevail.

Ravi Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:45 am
Raju Ramachandran was an Assistant Attorney General under the BJP Govt.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 9:00 am
The SC order to SIT states that it (S IT) shall obtain the Amicus curiae report, but is not obliged to submit it to the trail court. It is upto the SIT to take cognizance of the said report. The trial court too, if it accepts the SIT report, shall then afford an opportunity to the complainant to have her say.
AshishC

@ShahAlamKhan,
Okay, Dr Khan; here goes.
Let us first make a distinction between people and the cause. I think both of us would agree that corruption in its broadest sense is impeding our progress and making our lives tough. So, a movement against corruption has much to recommend itself.

Now, to the debate about the dramatis personae and their methods and antecedents.
To your points:
1. I have not read the latest by Arundhati on the anti-corruption movement- so, I can not comment specifically. The only thing we owe to Anna Hazare and his bunch of merry men and women is that they have given a face to the movement.
This is very “hindu” (forgive the flippancy)- in our country, we tend to make Gods (or at any rate bestow honorifics like Gurudev- Tagore, Mahatma- Gandhi, Netaji- Subhash Bose) and then sit back and wait for them to wave their magic wand for our problems to disappear. We are idol-worshippers!
But, sir, the problem is with us- the people. Not with Anna or his team.
2. I would rather focus on the cause rather than the people. That said, I have no doubt that all human beings have feet of clay. As the recent “travel voucher” issue displays (as an aside, in all places I have worked, this kind of shennanigans would be grounds for instant dismissal and the company would reserve the right to prosecute and recover the money; I have personally sacked people for far less).
It does not obliterate Ms Bedi’s track-record and achievements- it just shows the downside of our hero-worship.
Is Lokpal the right vehicle for prosecuting or investigating NGOs? IMO, no. I would prefer the anti-corruption body- in whatever shape- to focus only on government machinery and the people manning it.
Notice, I did not say Lokpal- I share Manohar’s thoughts on the Lokpal being just parallel bureaucracy.
3. Not having time to start something- sir, it is the same with me; I am doubly handicapped on both lack of time as well as ability. But, why not celebrate the fact that issues are being raised and brought into our consciousness?
Sir, the uniqueness of this struggle is that it is largely a bourgeoisie movement. As a class, they are notoriously difficult to mobilize. Aren’t you glad that it is happening?
4. I differ with you that our freedom struggle was not led by urbanites.
Re’ farmer suicides in Vidarbha- sir, all of us sitting in Delhi/ NOIDA/ Mumbai/ Gurgaon.. in our airconditioned bedrooms, are guilty. I wish human life had more value in our collective conscience.
But, would you have even known about this anti-corruption thing- if these guys were fasting in Hardwar or Manali ot Vidarbha or Kodaikanal?
When my daughter cries, she does it to attract attention- even she is smart enough to do so where she has the maximum eyeballs- and more sympathetic ones the better!
So, they are not clowns- they are just smart.
5. No comment!
6. The subtleties of the distinction between the satta and vyawastha (Congress and the Govt)exist- but, I agree with you, in today’s India, the distinction is difficult to draw.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 8:18 am
@ Ashish

There is a deliberate attempt to tar Kiran Bedi as it has been done with all of team anna’s members. Why dont we check her answer. Tha5t all the money saved on travel was used by her NGO for bette4ring the conditions of deprived children.

By the way let us also check out the expenses of the Congress MPs,including the gaffe prone Yuvraj. Nobody has done this as the CBI is controlled by the Congress.

By the Congress defination anyb ody who says Vande Matram is a right winger.

Anybody who says I luv India is an ultra nationalist…

And only the Gandhi – Nehru parivar has a monoply over patriotism.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 am
Vijay Kumar, Ashish,

those who swear by the name of Mahatma Gandhi have no compunction in staying in 7 star penthouse suites for 3 continuous months at a rent of Rs.1lac per day and bill it to the government, as our Hon. Krishna and Tharoor did, before the scandal broke and they were asked to foot the bill. Shashi Tharoor also refused to travel in what he called cattle class, incidentally the same as Kiran Bedi travelled in.

Krishna also stayed in a 5star hotel in London for two days, all expenses paid by government, fully unauthorisedly, beyond entitlement. He too claims that like Tharoor, he is a honest member of Singh’s cabinet.

MPs routinely sign the attendance register in the parliament and draw daily allowances, for the record, but do not attend proceedings of both houses. This has been going on for the last six decades.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 am
THEREFORE, I HOLD KIRAN BEDI NOT GUILTY.

CASE CLOSED. FILE MOVED TO ARCHIVES.

Prahlad_k Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Shenoy Sir,

Ms Kiran Bedi could ask for “Donation” openly. Why did she involved her NGO, the organisor and even her CA in impropriety ? I think ICAI can take action against the CA for falsifying the record. Even the organisor could be in soup for making false payment by their auditor !

Ravi Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 8:49 pm
“CASE CLOSED”, You are begining to sound like a lwyer without brief. Who gave you the brief for Kiran Bedi’s case.

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:51 am
Vijay/ BVS
a wrong is wrong.
Remember the joke? A son came home and told his father, “I saved Rs 5 today”. “How?”, the father asked. “I ran after the bus, all the way to school; so I saved Rs 5 in bus fare”.
“Idiot”, said the father. “you could have saved Rs 100 if you had run after a taxi!”
Kiran Bedi could have thus saved more money by taking the train to the meeting and still claiming airfare!
False vouchers are not on. I am serious.
I am on the same page with you for the rest of the your post. I restrain myself with almost physical force from getting started on the Nehru-Gandhu family; because this is a family blog!

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 8:45 am
Vijay

What Kiran Bedi did was inappropriate. She could have always insisted upon direct donations/whatever to her NGO and claimed actual expenses for travel and fees, etc.

Then there would have been no need to give long explanations one after another.

[Reply]
Anonymous

@Deluded Indians.
REMOVING CORRUPTION TOTALLY WILL MAKE MAKE LIFE LOT LOT EASIER for “east delhi citizens”BUT WILL NOT MAKE AN IOTA OF DIFFERENCE TO THE 50%POVERTY LEVEL IN INDIA. This is because to cure of your malnutrition YOU NEED FOOD. And that is a function of SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, irrigation , mechanisation , storage , soil management etc. JUST BECAUSE 50% can sod it , THUS EAST DELHI CITIZENS are not bothered about the ZERO IMPACT REMOVAL OF CORRUPTION will have on general wellbeing of the poor.
Lot of corruption can be tackled by tweaking the system , BUILDING 100 MORE SUPER JAILS AND APPOINTING 100000JUDGES.ALL DISCRETATIONARY POWERS TO BE REMOVED.

Reflect on this bit of news that appeared on page 6 of Evening standard , a 72 page paper distributed freely to commuters.
BRITISH BUSINESSMEN PACK YOUR BAG FOR TRIPOLI
In the same page , another caption
British engineers can build the bombed out cities and roads.
NOW YOU KNOW WHY BRITAIN WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF NATO AIRSTRIKES , AND NEVER A WORD EVEN FOR TIBET
Looks like recession may end soon

[Reply]
Anonymous

Posted by Vir Sanghvi on Friday, October 21, 2011 at 8:42 pm.
” I am prepared to agree with Kejriwal when he says that the Shanti Bhushan CD was part of a conspiracy. We know now that the CD was faked and the refusal of the Delhi Police to recognise that it was a cut-and-paste job suggests a certain level of official complicity even if the CD itself was made by governmental sources.”
Would Mr Vinod Sharma respond ?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm
I am intigued that Vir Sanghvi a guest blogger with HT Media ( I do not thing he has been re-employed yet) should show that a prominent story done by Mr Vinod Sharma the Political Editor of the newspaper with his byeline , was false. The Political Editor had vehemently claimed that he had done due diligence before filing that story.

[Reply]
Vinod Sharma Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Praveen_Saxena
This only shows that there isn’t any conspiracy at the HT end to stifle views and perceptions. The case is before the court —as Shanti Bhushan has contested the Police’s closure report. The last word is yet to be heard.
PS: on reading my response you’d know how miserably have you failed to drive a wedge within HT.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@ Vinod Sharma

Your hero of the CD episode is hiding from Tihar by shouting I am ill.
The Court is nailing him for ghoos, rishwat, subverting democracy and somhow Digvinash is supporting him.

Any comments?

Would you confuse this by shouting that Kiran Bedi claimed extra money for travel to finance poor children’s education and we should call her criminal while Amar Singh Dahla whose activites range from kickbacka, subverting democracy and dahlagiri is prince charming?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:18 am
Why Sirjee should I , a mere visitor to your blog , think of driving a wedge.I would always wish that the HT team should be rock solid.
But Sirjee , the wedge is there for all to see….its is there in Vir Sanghvi’s comment.

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================
~~ PAKISTAN’S DISCOMFORT ~~~ 0 ~~~ IS OUR COMFORT ~~~~~
==============================================================

This post is for everyone, especially Ashish and Pankaj as we were in a discussion on the subject earlier.

Before 9/11 happened Pakistan had a pretty much free run on India through its terrorist fauj. Now its fauj is terrorist as well as it has a fauj of terrorists

From 1980 onwards it staged Punjab and the J&K terrorism. And then it created the Kargil war.Only after 9/11 did it change track as it found that uncle Sam was no longer backing it totally.

So let us get real for a change. Pakistan is anyway going to cause terror. So in case Uncle Sam pounds its _ _ _ for a change, lets smile. And meanwhile put on a front of toughness that they dont get tempted to start a war on this border too.

They won’t start a nuclear war. Then the whole world would pound them to death. It could at best be a Kargil type of intrusion. Lets be prepared for that.

And in case the US actually gets down to a street fight… as a bonus, the end of Paksitan could herald in peaceful countries of Baluchistan and SIndh…

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Vijay;
It is a a matter of happiness that US has fully understood the double dealing of pakistan. Look at the Osama episode. These goons had no compunction in hiding Osama in the garrison town and prolonging the war in Afghanistan. US would have saved thousands of deaths of its soldiers, billions of dollars in money but for this wretched country, who proclaim to be an ally in war on terror. Any decimation of its forces, plus ceasation of American aid, will bring that country down to its knees, may be people will revolt and this cabal of generals will be killed like Gaddafi. A friendly pakistan will be an asset to not only India but world, present day pakistan is, as popularly known; world’s migraine”.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 6:24 pm
@ Pankaj

I think we need to be a bit ruthless in the interest of the country. Imagine since 1980, Pakistan is responsible for more than 100,000 deaths in India thru terror.

We need to see that this evil entity is sent to jahunnum… if not by us… then at tleast by the US

[Reply]
Anonymous

Hilary Clinton said yesterday in the press conference YOU CANNOT KEEP SNAKES IN YOUR BACKYARD AND EXPECT THEM TO BITE THE NEIGHBOURS ONLY. Cant be any more blunter. What will happen next depends exclusively on Pakistan. One more attack on US embassy in kabul , waziristan will see tomahawk showering down. As to land invasion , well ALL US TROOPS ARE LEAVING IRAQ , SO AVAILABLE FOR AFGANISTAN.
india should not drop its guard , AND STAY ALERT , IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE OUT THE NUKES WITH SU30MKI, universally acknowledged as the greatest fighter around till american RAPTOR comes into the scene which is 5yrs away.

[Reply]
Anonymous

I know about the final verdict in JMM bribery case but if you look at the history these MPs who took money for vote were hauled up by courts and were let off on technical ground.
Some people want this to continue indefinitely.

[Reply]
Anonymous

I agree with both Manohar and Ashish that new Lokpal will be a parallel bureaucracy.
According to me both CVC and CBI should be merged into one body making CBI independent of govt. and working under CVC.

The CVC should be renamed as Lokpal and his selection should be done by panel where govt. & opposition MPs are in minority.

The CVC should be strengthened and given all the powers of Lokpal.

As far as conduct of MPs and MLAs inside parliament/assembly is concerned, the constitutional amendment if required can wait for time being but before that an Independent CVC+CBI = Lokpal should be formed.

On other side NIA should be allocated more resources and made independent of Govt. All the State ATS bodies should work under NIA and these ATS bodies should only be responsible to NIA.

It is time we make investigation and prosecution of any kind (corruption, terrrorism, riots etc.) free from political interference especially govts. (Central and State).

We can keep arguing about technicalities but it is not going to help. The status quo will not work anymore..We need change and that too very drastic. Our constitution is not some holy book that we can not tinker with. If constitutional amendments are not possible, we should find ways around it. At the end of the day criminals of all types should be punished.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 5:32 pm
I am glad that you recognize the fact this Lokpal will be a parallel bureaucracy and IMO with very doubtful benefits to the nation.

That has been our bane – too much political interference in too many things and our energies should be directed to minimize or eliminate it completely.

Our constitution is indeed kind of a holy book, but can be tinkered with, if need be and for that one needs 2/3rds majority in both the houses. There cannot be ways to get around it – it will be chaos and anarchy otherwise.

Rest what you suggest is a matter of detail and worth considering.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Tandon,
Believe me your reasons behind opposing Jan Lokpal are not same as Digvijay Singh and his chela Rahul Gandhi.

I thought you were close to Congress’s position and that is why I kept this debate on.

I have realized that your concerns are genuine and not phony like Rahul Gandhi.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Manohar,
I concede the point that behavior of MPs and MLAs within house is protected by constitution.
However in the case of JMM bribery case and recent cash for vote scam, the act of BRIBE was conducted outside the parliament. This act of accepting and giving bribe was not done within the confines of parliament. Are such criminal acts conducted by MPs and MLAs outside house protected by our constitution?
Pl. clear my ignorance.

[Reply]
Anonymous

@RajeevS, Thia is an attempt to clear your ignorance. MP’s and MLA’s HAVE ONLY ONE PRIVILEGE INSIDE THE HOUSE ,that is they can say anything WITHOUT RISKING A LIBEL, but that’s about it, OTHER THAN THAT , EACH AND EVERY RULE OF THE LAND APPLIES EQUALLY TO THEM .
Hope this clears your confusion.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 7:26 pm
I being ignorant about rights of MPs and MLAs was just trying to clear few things. Thanks… I agree with you that MPs and MLAs should be free to do whatever they do in the house but once they are outside, they should be treated as commoners but is that happening?

[Reply]
Anonymous

No one has commented since more than one hour. Is every one busy ?

I have read many bloggers writing about meeting deadlines, about being very busy,
paapi pet ka sawal hai etc.
This is for all those people

The amount of money thats in your bank at the time of your death, is the
extra work you did wchich was not necessary.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 6:22 pm
@ MOhan

Unbeatable !! Ambani should give us grants of 100 crores each….

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 6:27 pm
@Vijay,
knock off one zero, 10 crores bhi chalega..

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Mohan;
Not coming to blog all the time is like peeing in a black pant, you feel the warmth but others can not see it.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:04 am
Pankaj

Very nice one.

Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Mahatma Gandhi has approx. Rs.247 when he died. He too earned extra than was required.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:06 am
Rajeev,

Only you could say this. Brutely honest, never minces the words.
Cannot

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:07 am
Wont spare Gandhi also.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:56 am
Mohan, Rajeev,

since I have only debit balance in the account, I am not likely to die soon (at least till I clear my overdraft).

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 9:12 am
Shenoy,

Dont disclose secret of long life.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:33 am
Thanks..I try to be honest and this is why I hate deception.
Anonymous

Rajeev

The elected representatives are protected against their conduct(*) within the house.

(*) What they say or how they vote. If they use unparliamentary language, those are generally expunged and the member asked to apologise. These matters are dealt with by the Speaker and the disciplinary committee of the house.

Their conduct outside is subject to the same laws outside as applicable to everyone else.

The JMM bribery case probably failed because no connection between the unaccounted cash in their accounts and the way the voted in the parliament could be established. As for the crime of having unaccounted cash, it would be handled by the IT department (pay tax and a fine for example) or others independently of their conduct in the house.

I hope this clears your doubts.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:58 pm
No one cares about the stuff that MPs do in parliament. No one will care if they tear away each other’s limbs in the hose.

How they vote in parliament is also not our concern as ours is a mature democracy where MPs go by their inner voice.

We are only interested in bribes that they take outside the parliament. I think Lokpal should be concerned with this.

Thanks for clearing my doubts.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Yes, we should not care about their conduct inside per se. If they take bribes outside – there are laws to deal with them. However, Arvind Kejriwal and Co. want to include the conduct within house to be brought under the ambit of the Lokpal and that is why there so much debate about constitutional amendment(s).

The problem, in spite lawyers and judges in their team, Kejriwal’s draft bill was flawed to begin with – too many constitutional amendments would be required to make it operational and many provisions downright unconstitutional. They wanted to create an Ayotollah, who would be answerable to none and with unfettered powers. Just not done.

If they take bribes, then it has to be established that they took the money in discharge of their duties as elected representatives. For example, the 16 odd MPs caught in the cash-for-questions scam admited it as such on camera. Their tenure were terminated by the house and not by some outside agency/authority.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I think you have a point. Arvind Kejriwal and Rahul Gandhi both want COMPREHENSIVE LOKPAL bill for different reasons. The aim of bill should be to investigate and prosecute people involved in all types of corruption keeping in mind the constitutional provision.

I too am against Grand Ayotollah whether in Lokpal or EC or some controlling govt. and govt. sanctioned civil society called NAC.

Indian constitution is subverted all the time but Kejriwal and Co. should not demand anything unconstitutional. They can not behave like Congress who came up with unconstitutional NAC headed by Sonia Gandhi with total veto on govt. policies.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:40 am
I am glad that we are seeing eye to eye on some issues or agreeing to disagree on others. I like it. Happy to discuss any issue with you.

The existing authorities and institutions are answerable to someone. The system is so structured that ultimately it is answerable to the people of this country via the parliament/legislatures. The people decide who gets elected to the them – that lot of undesirable people get in is a different matter altogether, but a matter of grave concern. It is to be tackled by some other means – not Lokpal.

Having said that what Kejriwal & Co (I would not like to use the term Anna’ team – as I said he has been taken advantage of) had proposed that Lokpal would not be answerable to anyone – a law unto oneself. Above the Prime Minister too and other constitutional authorities.

The CEC and the CAG have been given constitutional status, so that there is no political interference and they can carry on with their job without fear and hindrance. Look how the elections are conducted in India – a envy of the world. One fact you may not be aware of, once the process of elections is announced – not even the Supreme Court intervenes in any manner to halt it even for a minute for whatever reasons- if someone has complaint about any irregularity – it is dealt with by the courts after the process is over – during the process the aggrieved person can only approach the CEC. During the elections, the Election Commissioners are the masters and for the last 20 years or so (after the advent of T N Seshan) they have done an excellent job.

Second, their version of the bill denied anyone from seeking review of the decision by the courts, as their decision could not be challenged in any court of law. Another was bringing the Supreme Court under the lens of the Lokpal. These were some of the ridiculous provisions. There were many others. They assumed that everyone (other than themselves*) in this country was corrupt to the core and needed to be dealt with.

* It seems that they are not paragons of virtue either if current news reports are to be believed.

I have pointed out in earlier blogs as what needs to be done to reduce/minimize corruption – a cancer that needs to be severely controlled.

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:11 am
Manohar,
I tend to think-
a) The maximalist positions advocated by some members of Anna’s team are just negotiating tactics. Shoot for the moon and at least reach the cloud!
b) I differ with you on what I perceive you seem to be saying- that Anna is a great guy, with stellar achievements and moral standing and so on. His team has dubious creds and even more – dubious motives.
I think it is a lot more complex.
I think Anna hopes the Lokpal will perform the role that he does in Ralegan Siddhi. Wield a stick and ban corrupt practices and vices like alcohol, TV and so on.
That is the problem- and it is THE tiger they will find difficult to dismount.
Also, and I am not being patronizing here, Anna’s worldview is not broad enough to seek cogent solutions- even to the narrow problem of corruption, forget the solutions. That said, I repeatedly maintain that his singular achievement is in rallying the urban middle-class and bringing corruption as an issue in our collective consciousness.
Kejriwal, Bhushan, Bedi, Hegde may be broadly united on the anti-corruption plank but have few other meeting grounds.
If they continue to stay very narrowly focused on corruption as an issue- they will succeed. I think the media and Congress recognise that the best way to blunt their edge is to seek their articulation of their known positions on other, non-corruption issues and use the differences to drive a wedge/ gain more TRPs and so on.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:43 am
Ashish

My intention was not to glorify Anna as some sort of Mahatma. I have always distinguished between the good work he has done on the development front and his hitleresque style of moral policing. We have discussed it before.

The group took him on board to give a face to their movement. I doubt he has ever understood the grave implications of the contents of the Jan Lokpal bill. That were major embarrassments after many of his statements. He rallied people no doubt and the political class had to take notice, but one has to wonder for how long. Such movements (pardon the expression) are not one-night stands.

The group is already tottering – n number (including some you have mentioned) have been sidelined or have left on their own. One of the reasons was the Himalayan blunder of targeting one political party rather than the political class as a whole. They have lost a lot of credibility.

What the Congress party (rightly or wrongly, any other would have probably done the same) did and continues to do so is discredit the people – they seem to have succeeded to certain extent – telling the world – look these guys and gals are no angels. In a way pay them back in the same coin. Kejriwal & Co. chose to confront the system, instead of working with it.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am
Rajeev

I agree with you – this NAC business should have never been formalized as part of the system – but then what else one can expect from the sycophants.

I do not think they have a total veto – there are other views and opinions in the Government – the Cabinet, the Planning Commission and finally the Parliament, to be contend with. Governance is the art of the possible.

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:38 am
In one of my unfinished dialogs with Mahesh, I made the point that the real big corruption will increasingly happen in the policy domain- and I do not see how the Lokpal will catch them.
After all MPs can sanction anything from gas pipeline to sugar mills to petrol pumps to land-use to mining rights to spectrum…
If they are “pursuaded” through unfair means – who will catch them? Just the problem; no solution.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:00 am
I assume you are hinting at US style democracy, where it has almost become subverted by the Lobby Industry.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:51 pm
well, yes.. at least partly.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:19 am
Rajeev, Manohar, Ashish,

I more I visit this blog more I learn. Good dsicussion guys.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 8:34 am
Agree. That is why I am against creating this monster – Lokpal or whatever. Go to the roots to prevent the mischief than play police and robbers later.

[Reply]
Ravi

Yet another ban forced into place by Hindutva Peddlers

Under pressure from ABVP, a Sangh Organisation, the University of Delhi has banned the study of an article written by A. K. Ramanujan.

The article compares various retellings of Ramayana, by Dravidians, Dalits, Tribal, Shudra, Jaina, and other South Asian countries. Apparently having many Ramayanas works against the Hindutva cause and that has rattled the cage of Hindu Fundamentalists.

What is next on the list, which the Hindu Fundamentalists would like to ban in the name of forging a Homogeneous Hindu Society – which besides being an oxymoron, will destroy the very reason why India in general and Hinduism in particular is so charming.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:08 am
I see you are back..

You would notice that when you went away the quality of debate had risen and abuse had disappeared.

Please dont try to get the blog back to a lower level by getting everyone to talk about you are your personal fixation against Hindus and India.

You will n otice that Engrich was the only guy who missed you and would let out poems of lament on your disappearence.

So let us keep the platform neat and clean and without personal abuse or trying to become the centre of atention.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:11 am
truth is sour.fascism lives on lies and hate propaganda.name of rama is being used by hindutva goons to divide and destroy india.

anna hazare is like nato rats of libya.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:11 am
Vijay Kumar

Hardly my personal fixation, yesterday both the Hindustan Times as well as the TOI carried editorials on this issue. The authors were Pratik Kanjilal and Dileep Padgaonkar, Some academics of DU are preparing for a protest against this ban.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:55 am
Ravi,
please read Swapan Dasgupta in TOI today for a nuanced take on the issue and larger issue of how history and its studies are handled in India. Really classy essay.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:59 am
Ashish

I agree.

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:15 am
Ashish

I have read that blog.

Swapan Dasgupta is making two points.

1. Why have prescribed texts any way, why not just set broad themes and let individual institution recommend texts to their students.

2. The banning of any academic article is “an attack on the spirit of free inquiry”

On both those points I agree with him. I do not see Dasgupta’s article disagreeing with either Kanjilal or Padgaonkar.

He is not supporting the ABVP case for a Ban.

I regret that our education has become politicised and is being press ganged to serve the Hindutva project.

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:24 am
Ravi,
trust you to miss the broader point.
Did you recognise the names of historians whose seminal work have been all but obliterated from history syllabi across the country? Jadunath Sarkar, RC Majumdar and AL Shrivastava?
These were not done by ABVP; quite the contrary. Not for the first time, I think you only read to confirm your own world view.

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:36 am
Ashish

I can assure you that was not my intention.

Firstly, I am not familiar with the works of these historians; secondly, I did not read Dasgupta saying that these Historians have been BANNED under pressure from some left leaning pressure group.

My point is not which slant of our history should prevail, rather the mechanical act of BANNING of a scholarly written piece of work. You misunderstand my motivation.

My understanding is that the Historians mentioned no longer fit the view the University likes to promote. I would agree with you that in itself is an act of politicisation of our education and that I consider to be bad and I agree with Dasgupta’s observation.

I hope you are not suggesting that DU will not rate an exam script highly, if the submission made these Historians works the focus and/or cited them.

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Ravi,
My point is simple.
Over the last 60 odd years, the history and historiography in India has been made to order- of a certain way of thinking.
You are correct- I doubt students of history in DU will today even bother reading RC Majumdar or Jadunath Sarkar.
Education in social science disciplines is dominated by a certain type of profs- they award phds to only those that follow their “line”.
It is a mafia.
I have the greatest respects for the scholarships for many of the prominent historians in JNU/ DU but, they have singularly failed to produce an alternate viewpoint of history.
The purge works at the curriculum level, the faculty level. It starts with selection, of course.
I am as much against banning of Salman Rushdie as Rohointon Mistry as Ramanujan…
Having said that, just removing the essay from the “prescribed text” should be no deterrent to committed Profs who wish to expose their students to the text.
I am looking forward to you campaign for removing the ban that GOI imposed on Satanic verses. Or, is that ban just fine?

AshishC Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:34 am
Also, take a look at this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_India#Books
The thought police is not a monopoly of the right! Fight for free thought and I will fight with you. NOT a particular bent of mind and calling it free thought.

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:40 am
I am fighting for free thought.

Had an article written by a Right Wing Historian be the subject of BANNING.

My position would have been identical.

I am not even sure if the original article written my Ramanuja is right wing.

The BANNING of it is being asked by a Sangh Parivar Organisation.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:44 am
Ashish,

I agree with you. A lot of noise is made out by the secular funddoos about some imaginary kind of literary fascism! Swapan Dasgupta has exposed these fundoos as only he can.

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 8:05 am
Mr Shenoy

You obviously did not read the essay by Swapan Dasgupta.

Here is an excerpt.

The essay “Three Hundred Ramayanas” by indologist A K Ramanujan was never intended as an iconoclastic exercise. It spelt out the interesting variations in the “Ramayana” story in India and Southeast Asia with a great measure of quiet reverence. In fact, Ramanujan concluded his essay with a tale of the mental and social elevation of a village dolt after he actually listened to a recitation of the “Ramayana”.

If the article is reverential then Why was pressure put on the DU, to drop it from the prescribed reading list

He calls those who were asking for the ban ”philistines” I guess that clearly states his position on the question of banning.

The ABVP’s objection is clearly based on the essay contradicting the Hindutva objective of a Homogeneous Hindu Society. The ABVP is “despaired of a text that injected potentially “blasphemous” and contrarian ideas in impressionable minds.”

Whilst I would agree that hegemony of the progressives in our campuses is not good, but replacing it with the hegemony of Hindu Fundos is much worse.

Dasgupta’s conclusion – “The space for critical discernment is fast disappearing and we are turning into a nation of slogan shouters.” Is in a round about way condemning the ABVP led pressure on banning this Ramanuja essay.

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:56 am
Vijay Kumar,

I think Vinod Sharma has re-admitted him to “lift” his internet TRPs, which have shown a down ward trend. Unfortunately, he doesn’t understand that the fall in TRP is because of the new format of 15 posts per page.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:51 am
Fake Ravi,

now you read what your co-religionists are doing to small girl students in Egypt, under your fundoo rule.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/pioneer-news/oped/12264-christians-hounded-by-islamists-in-egypt.html

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:53 am
I choose to ignore this point less post

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:05 am
student has to follow school dress.what is problem.some countries it is on national level.forcing not to wear is more bad.

[Reply]
Ravi

A post in response to BVS’s Case Closed appeared here by mistake.

[Reply]
Ravi

The Advani Rath Yatra Limping on Deflated Tyers

Even though the text BREAKING NEWS and the attendant ticker tape wastefully occupy the TV screens in Indian News Channels, it was still glaringly obvious that Advani’s Rath Yatra has lost its news worthiness. It seems to be very low down on the running order.

I guess such NAUTANKIS have outlived their usefulness, delivering increasingly less electoral dividends.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 8:30 am
Moreover, he is going to skip Bangalore for obvious reasons.

Truly a NauTanki. Some people will never learn.

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

ASHISH, VIJAY, SHENOY, etc- censorship

The west quotes Voltaire- I may disagree with you, but I will defend your right to say it. Educated people should have no difficulty with this simple assertion.

But theory and practice are often different. If you live in an inflamed and unstable world, then diplomacy and compromise is the name of the game. The west was bloody STUPID in the way it handled the Quran burning pastor, Rushdie’s offensive book and Danish cartoon controversies. SO F STUPID THE WEST WAS THAT LIVES WERE LOST IN THESE CONTROVERSIES.

So what does Dr Mishra say- sach bolo. lekin kadwa sach- soch ke bolo. Say the truth or say anything, but if it is bitter- then think long and hard before saying it. With this prism I analyse every controversy from Maqbool silly Fida Hussain to the Shivaji book controversy.

The Indian govt was right to ban Rushdie and in that process saved thousands of lives.

[Reply]
Anonymous

guys few words about swapan dasgupta. He did his HS from La martineirre in Calcutta.
He is ?”connected” ? descendant of a very famous BENGALI industrialist. That is Calcutta Chemicals. It is was through and through “bengali” enterprise , TECHNICALLY BRILLIANT , very clean and honest.It had on its board, Prof Asima Chatterjee , Head of Chemistry ,Internationally reknowned.Its products were also world class , lavender talc, tuhina ., kanta perfume.But like all bengali enterprise , could not cope with the DIRTY aspect of indian business , and i am not sure if it exists any more. Swapan dasgupta graduated from St stephen’s in HISTORY, and managed to get a scholarship in cambridge under Prof Tapan Roychoudhuri , his thesis being POLITICAL SOMETHING IN BENGAL CIRCA 1864 OR SOMETHING.
INCREDIBLE TO STUDY BENGAL YOU NEED TO GO TO CAMBRIDGE.
Anyway that stint ,completely bowled him over with english culture.
So much so , in one article he remarked about high tea in The Savoy at strand ,and how that experience is incomparable

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:15 am
Before 2009, Swapan Dasgupta was an unabashed supporter and apologist of the RSS/BJP. After the drubbing, perhaps he realized that he could not possible to continue doing so, keep defending the indefensible and definitely disappointed with the shenanigans of Hindutva forces. His own credibility was at stake. Hence, he has “moved” a little away from his earlier position.

The English culture and the high tea business is just a side show. Everyone is a entitled to admire whatever one takes fancy to.

[Reply]
Ravi

Manohar, Engrich, Etc – What is the point

I am not sure if in the context of the BANNING of the Ramnujan Essay, Dr Mishra’s post actually makes any point.

The Essay itself is not Kardwa Sach by any leap of imagination. It suddenly seems to have become Kardwa to some Hindutvadi’s, because it distracts people from their Homogeneous Hindu Society message that they would like to propagate. Kardwa Sach element was also true of Salman Rushdies Fantastic Book – The Satanic Verses. The Book did not kill any one. People killed other people.

Variety of thought is so deeply ingrained in the Hindu Society – because it has evolved and grown by absorbing communities, thought, and practices – that making it Homogeneous is akin to vivisecting peoples creative thought processes and replacing it with the discipline of blind obedience.

It will NEVER work.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm
I am against bans, censorship, moral policing, curbing free speech, what have you.

Only the insecure types, the ’self-appointed guardians’ of the society and those wanting cheap and free publicity want to ban books, films, etc., moral police the society, as they feel that their make-believe world is threatened.
In practically all the cases, when quizzed whether have read or seen the “offending” piece of work, the answer is always negative.

The worst part is that the authorities – the governments, universities, etc. succumb to such pressures from these loony and lumpen outfits.

Recently, the Mumbai Film Festival, one such loony outfit demanded that the film of M F Hussain be not shown. Glad to say, the organisers told them – go take a walk.

[Reply]
Anonymous

@Ravi, Dont know if you are aware amongst SANTHALS the occasion of durga puja is not of celebration BUT MOURNING. Ram is not revered but feared and probably hated by the SANTHALS.I know this from one of my relative who lives in MALDAH , in west bengal.Apparently there are lot of santhals in the outskirts of maldah..
The BRAMHINICAL SCUMS even demeaned gautam buddha , by labelling his thoughts as being FALSE and work of somebody possessed by the demons.Not my words but the words od swami vivekananda

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Shan

I was steering away; from ascribing merits and demerits to individual versions of Ramayanas, and which one of them qualifies as being the most authentic one. I will leave that to the experts.

Apparently, Valmiki’s original version was injected with a Brahminical tone before it was accepted. There is no doubt that it is a text which glorifies Aryan triumph over Dravidian civilisation. I guess the Santhalis belong to the Dravidian race whose indigenous King Ravana was made into a monster.

I understand that there are some temples where Ravana is worshiped and that is what makes India so interesting.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Can somebody enlighten me , why THE POLYESTER PRINCE , an autobiography of Dhirubhai Ambani was banned. Where was the scope of riots with this book , or was it that WARTS AND ALL was to be revealed and the Govt with a little backhander from Ambanis duly obliged

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 11:59 am
Shaan,

you are talking about Ambani’s autobiography. What about Abul Kalam Azad’s autobiography? Why was it censored and delayed?

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Mr Shenoy

As Manohar has pointed out on many an instance that you have, a tendency to ignore the question posed, because the answer is an inconvenient one.

Your reaction then is to pose an irrelevant question (whose answer you already know) to divert attention and to look smarter than you really are.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:59 pm
why don’t you give him a standing ovation?

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:04 pm
I will ignore this ridiculous post

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:07 pm
why didn’t you read Ashish’s reply to you abourt banning by the other section?

Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:10 pm
And why don’t you read my reply to it.

I am against BANNING, no matter who instigates it.

In your partisan way of thinking, perhaps you will not understand and/or accept that.
Pankaj#1

Ashish;
You did not respond to my last post. Either you agree or do not agree. Please do not ignore me. It is not that I wish to come one up against you, never, but would like to get enlightened in the process, of this tower(blog) of Babel.

[Reply]
AshishC Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:11 am
.. but, I did..at least I thought I did.. I shall try and ferret out the piece if I can.. this format does not make it easy

[Reply]
Anonymous

DR SHAN OF singlegyrus, even after getting yr puny bong asss whipped by millions on blog on your white asss worship you still could not help yrself. Your words= in love with english culture so that high point of his life was having tea in Savoy= how pathetically spineless can you get.
Savoy, Dorchester etc are inconseqential. I do think your SC/ST origin has poisoned yr mind so much that all you do is sikh hindu bashing and uk worshipping. This is almost psychitric, an OCD perhaps. Whatever keeps your sad life happy DR SHAN, youlovable obsessive little anglophile cockroach hiding in crevice of western society

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Balwinderji,

I think at an impressionable age, some kaala Brahmin must have done something to him, making him hate the whole class and go in the opposite direction of loving all shweth lin…………

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

Ravi, I thought it was very clear that my post mentioned only Rushdie, Quran burning pastor, Hussain and Danish cartoons. Ramanajum is not mentioned at all !!!!
I can only quote Ashish here- ‘ Ravi, trust you to miss the broader point.
These were not done by ABVP; quite the contrary. Not for the first time, I think you only read to confirm your own world view. ‘

Ashish- you say- you are all for letting Rushdie publish. Despite the inevitable deaths ?? I support the practical stance of the Indian govt banning Rushdie back then. As I said- KADWA SACH YA BOL, SOCH KE BOLO

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Dr Mishra

I guess that you – not for the first time – failed to read my response.

One could easily argue – and I have done so on several occasions before – that you too miss the broader point and read only to re-enforce your own deeply held prejudices.

I suggest you read my new post above in response to Ashish’s post. You may not learn anything new, but at least you will know my POV from me and not from Ashish.

I will take a bet, as I have done so previously, you will ignore this post.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:07 am
Dr. Mishra,

it was not wise for the Indian government to rush into banning Salman Rushdie, even before most of the declared Muslim countries had done so.

It was also not right for the WB communists to ban Taslima Nasreen and hound her out from India. It is pertinent to note that even the TC government of Mamta didi has not rescinded the ban. Taslima continues to be an unwecome guest in an India, which for centuries, has welcomed with open arms all the Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Zoarastrian invaders, poachers, preachers and refugees.

[Reply]
Ravi

Ashish

I am posting this out of thread for obvious reasons. But it addresses issues you raised in your reply to me elsewhere

Perhaps it is me, but it seems we are arguing from the same side but with different emphasis.

So I will try again to put forward my view point.

I have already stated that hegemony of the “progressives” in our education system is not conducive for the advancement of open and honest education.

However, replacing it with hegemony of those who favour a different orthodoxy, a Hindu (their version of it) orthodoxy is, in my opinion worse.

My reason for taking that stance is because the methods used to gain the hegemony by these two groups is also fundamentally different.

The first group is a loose confederation of “like minded” individuals whilst the second group is that of a highly organised, centrally inspired and directed group.

The affiliation formed by the first group is on the basis of free will – even if it is based upon willing acceptance of a certain hue of indoctrination, whilst the second group is dictated to by the “Thinkers and strategisers” of a highly organised Political Organisation.

In my view that difference of modus operandi is very significant.

Days when Communist Polit Bureaus, performing a role similar to the RSS central think tank are long way in our past. The progressives these days are free marketers and not your dyed in red fire-brand communists.

The current trend is towards “scientific history” and Upinder Singh and Nayanjot Lahiri are but two examples. History is being re-written daily and DU is rightly in the fore-front of this renaissance. JNU may well be a different story.

I think banning of Salman Rushdie’s book the Satanic Verses and that of Bhavsagar Granth by the orthodox Sikhs are totally un-defendable. I used to own a copy of the Satanic Verses (I loaned it to some one, who chose not to return) and had that been a current topic, then you bet I would have defended the right of it being freely available to read every where in the world.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Ek aadmi INDIA GATE pe
chilla raha tha – “PRIME MINISTER nikamma hai..”
Delhi Police ne usse pakadkar peetna shuru kar diya,
aur bola Chalo thaane . P.M. ki INSULT karta hai …
aadmi: Maine toh ENGLAND ke P.M. ke Liye Bola Tha .
Delhi Police ne do Thappad aur lagaye
aur Bole – “BEWAKOOF BANATA HAI, kya? KYA Hamein NAHIN PATA KAUNSA PM NIKAMMA HAI? “

[Reply]
Pankaj#1 Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Shenoy Sahab;
Good one.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Before L. K. Advani set off on his Rath Yatra, he was invited by Mohan Bhagwat – the RSS Sarsanghachalak – for a formal training on how to drive a Bullock pulled Rath.

As they rode in an open field in Nagpur, with thousands of swayamsevaks keenly watching this display of pageantry, the Bullock let rip the most horrendous earth-shattering, eye-smarting blast of flatulence, and a waft of the most noxious fumes hit them.

Uncomfortable, but maintaining control, the Sarsanghachalak did his best to ignore the whole incident, but then Mohan Bhagwat decided that was a ridiculous manner with which to handle a most embarrassing situation. He turned to Mr. Advani and said please accept my regrets. I’m sure you understand that there are some things even a Sarsanghachalak cannot control.”

Advani, ever the jester, replied, “please don’t give the matter another thought. You know, if you hadn’t said something I would have assumed it was the Bullock.”

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Shenoy,
Good one.

[Reply]
Ravi

Obama Election Strategy

Recent events have led one to guess what Obama’s Election Strategy may be. Two of the options are:

1. Is it that Obama is relying on a stream of Home Coming News vignettes on TV to create a warm feeling towards him among some of the Republicans and the hope is that it will result in success at the ballot box.

2. Is Obama thinking that there is now such a strong anti Pakistan feeling among the public in the USA, that an extension of the Afghan war DIRECTLY into Pakistan may be a greater electoral asset. If that is the case then the video clip showing the setting off of the Nuclear Armed “Seventh Fleet” or its modern equivalent may deliver bigger electoral dividend.

By killing Osama Bin Laden, the US killed a Sanp, but the Sapera is still very much in tact. It is daily creating more Samps.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Did Anna team break any law for anti congress campaign at Hissar ?

Interesting article.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/can-pc-prosecute-kejriwal-for-anti-cong-hisar-campaign/20111021.htm

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:48 pm
They may not have broken any law, but they have compromised their party political neutrality.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:57 am
an rss man cannot be politically neutral.his compaign is part of larger conspiracy to destablize india.in libya alciada is working with nato and hitlery cl0nt0n to establish sharia laws,like in iraq.god save india.they are using 7th century islamic laws as an instrument of suppression to turn country into qabaristan and then rob how much possible.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:17 am
I think Anna turned political when he said if Congress passes lokpal, he will work with Congress.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Why was ‘Da vinci code’ banned in India whereas it was not so in the west?

Let there be freedom of speech and thought on everything and bans should not be applied selectively.

I want Ramayana to be commented on but at the same time Quran should not be exempt from free critique.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:05 am
In India, things get banned because they offend the sensibilities of two and half people and are also against the “great Indian culture, values and traditions”.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:16 am
You are right…Satanic verses was first banned in India and then Nasreen was kicked out by liberal COMMUNISTS…

Unfortunately only hindus get all the brickbats for being insane whereas as insanity of others especially muslims is tolerated as sensibilities.

This kind of biased treatment will result in a retaliation which will not be good for the nation.

It is time we do away with politics of banning or come up with a panel of TRULY SECULAR people to decide what should be banned.

Let these kinds of decisions not be made by thugs from politics.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:50 am
tasleema is a tool in hands of brhmnst to create anti-muslim tension and propaganda.she has 5 divorces.this shows his mental status.always writes non-sense to get attention and help anti-india brhmncl forces with her stupidities.

AshishC Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:22 am
Engrich,
thank you for making the point more eloquently (without meaning to, of course!) than even Rajeev could!

Ravi Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:21 am
I deeply object to this comment.

It is derogatory to midgets, I urge you to retract it immediately.

Or else I would be asking that you be banned from this blog.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:16 am
Before that I would like know why you object and then we will see.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
When you are trying to be sarcastic, please put an asterix or something, so that your highfalutin debater friend and side kicks can understand the sarcasm.

engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:44 am
critising ok abusing not acceptable.regarding ramanaya ,it is epic.bhardwaj ,a bvrhmn has confirmed in supreme court that ,ram never existed in india.it is all imagination.brhmnst are using this as a tool to destablize and divide india.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:55 am
Rajeev,

the ban on Taslima Nasreen’s book or her own deportation have not been rescinded even by Mamta Banerji government.

[Reply]
engrich

ravi,ashish &shan,will of a legend,

Muammar Gaddafi’s website, Seven Days News, says it has published the last will of the deceased former leader of Libya.

The document was reportedly handed to three of his relatives, one of whom was killed, the second arrested and the third managed to escape the fighting in Sirte.

Here is the English translation:

“This is my will. I, Muammar bin Mohammad bin Abdussalam bi Humayd bin Abu Manyar bin Humayd bin Nayil al Fuhsi Gaddafi, do swear that there is no other God but Allah and that Mohammad is God’s Prophet, peace be upon him. I pledge that I will die as Muslim.

Should I be killed, I would like to be buried, according to Muslim rituals, in the clothes I was wearing at the time of my death and my body unwashed, in the cemetery of Sirte, next to my family and relatives.

I would like that my family, especially women and children, be treated well after my death. The Libyan people should protect its identity, achievements, history and the honourable image of its ancestors and heroes. The Libyan people should not relinquish the sacrifices of the free and best people.

I call on my supporters to continue the resistance, and fight any foreign aggressor against Libya, today, tomorrow and always.

Let the free people of the world know that we could have bargained over and sold out our cause in return for a personal secure and stable life. We received many offers to this effect but we chose to be at the vanguard of the confrontation as a badge of duty and honour.

Even if we do not win immediately, we will give a lesson to future generations that choosing to protect the nation is an honour and selling it out is the greatest betrayal that history will remember forever despite the attempts of the others to tell you otherwise.”
More on This Story

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:53 am
This ‘will’ is invalid ab initio, as it says that there is NO OTHER GOD BUT Allah. We in India know that there are several gods.

When death came to him, he was hiding in a gutter, by is which no way to be ‘in the vanguard of confrontation as a badge of duty and honour.

However, you and fake Ravi would do well to study the last sentence very carefully and work out why both of you are indulging in destroying our country.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:11 am
When death came to him, he was hiding in a gutter

he was not hiding in gutter.nato forces use chemical and biological on sirte killing 20000civilians.he was arrested 2 days before tortured and given to wahabis to kill so that civil war can start.

film what we see was made in ben ghazi theatre to depict him bad,like saddam hussain,who was caught from friends house.they played computer generated film.but they are stupid,as month of january donot have dates on trees.

dont teach us patriotism.in 1857 when ur forefathers were licking the a$$of britishers and polishing their shoes we sacrificed 1 million to save dignity and integrity of india.

[Reply]
Anonymous

The RSS/BJP have always practiced double standards and doublespeak.

It is also demonstrated here on this blog day in and day out by their apologists and supporters.

[Reply]
Ravi

Mr Shenoy

You have read Gaddafi’s will, that should be sufficient.

We should all feel safe now, in the knowledge that there are several gods. How revealing!!

BTW us Sikhs believe in Eik Onkar

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:23 am
he was talking of his god.world is more unsafe now they can change any goverment they want with their air power and arming local and paying for mercenaries.i was smelling same game in india through ann ,arming rss use air power in the name protecting civilians.
resistence is still strong.could not declare liberation in tripoli.he was popular leader.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 6:19 am
What kind of a legend is he who hides in a sewer fearing death?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:09 am
Shenoy,

Why are you engaging in a dialogue with him.? Just ignore
him.

engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 8:15 am
running away IS BEST POLICY.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 8:42 am
Mohan,

you are right, I shouldn’t have stooped to his level, which is actually gutter level. But, like Gaddafi thought nothing of hiding in the sewer pipe, sometimes you have to bend and peep inside the gutter to see the ‘keeda’.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 11:23 am
@ Shenoy

Engrich knows more about Gadaffi…. Becasue T U R D S float in a sewer….

engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:26 am
this shows ur ignorance.read his will.he was expecting death.he was not hiding in sewarage pipe.there are 100s of version one of them is this.
i explained down.he is great african legend.he was murdered because,
1.he gave 97 billion dollars to poor african countries.
2.he gifted sattlelite africa so now their mobile and tv is their own.
3.he was making african monetary fund free from imf.with one african currency.
4.started interest free banking.which was helping african a lot.

if he was afraid of his death ,he could submit to nato and have everything u can dream.
that is why he will be remembered as legend for centuries t come in africa.

i wrote u down most acceptable circumstances.
Anonymous

Just because Anna Hazare and his team have stood up against the mighty UPA Government of India, they should be prepared to face its wrath. So tidbits about alleged misdemeanors are being made front page headlines. The standards they wish to set for Team Anna is those of the old Dharmendra starrer “Satyakaam”.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 8:32 am
Kiran Bedi has asked her travel agent(s) to return the excess amount to the organizers of the events/meets she attended.

Whether it is UPA or the NDA, the central government is always mighty. Recall the Tehelka sting operation (Bangaru Laxman, …) the then government made sure that it was destroyed. This is the sad fact about our governments/authorities and is disgusting to say the least.

If you need to get things done from any entity – you have to work with it and not confront it by issuing threats, ultimatums, etc.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Manohar,
I have very high regards for Tehelka’s investigative journalism but I failed to understand why didn’t Tehelka do any sting operation against UPA govt. especially against people from Congress Party?

Why is that none of the scams were unearthed by Tehelka?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Rajeev,

why are you being naive? Tehelka does only petty crimes, like Bangaru’s by creating false contracts, fake firms and real prostitues, that too only when BJP politicians are involved.

Tehelka gets tongue-tied, its legs become weak and hands tremble while holding the spy cameras when the contracts are real, amounts upwards of 1.00lac crore etc and politicians belong to the holy party called congress.

Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Praveen Saxenaji,

you are being told here by Vinod Sharma and his cronies here on this blog, that the central government is all powerful and ordinary individuals cannot and should not fight this all powerful, all encompassing entity and if anybody dares to confront this giant, then don’t complain that you got bruised and beaten or even ruined, which is what happened to Team Anna.

The unfortunate reality is that the media, which was just a month ago backing the anti-corruption movement, is now one with the most corrupt regime in the whole world, in destroying the credibility and characters of Anna’a team, with unbelievable ferocity and viciousness.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Anna and his team are not asking for any favours from the government. With the support of the people , they wish to mount pressure on the government to perform its duty which it is not performing. The government is not the “Mai Baap” of the people but its servant.

[Reply]
Anonymous

==============================================================
~ WHY rants against HINDUS AND HINDUISM REFLECT a tu-rd Tajendar mindset~
==============================================================

For the past few days, we have been seeing a concentrated attack on Hinduism on this site. It makes me yawn !! How Boring… how straitjacketed… how predictable… it is those time wasters again, serving a jehadi agenda !

They have again hijacked the meaningful debate on the LokPal- with fantastic contributins by Rajeev and Manohar– and the other interesting topics– How Dr Mishra rattled the cage, MOhan’s jokes, Shenoy’s poems and a debate on religion hy Dr Shah Alam.

Let me go back to the mid ninties when the attacks on Hindu religion was considered very “intellectual.”

I was in college, even had a beard– partly Che` and partly fashion and often attended the leftist meetings at Mandi house– mostly because of an ambition to become a director/writer

At that point, the flames in Punjab were subsiding but Kashmir was getting engulfed and Mandal was the topic of the day.

“All exploitation in this country is because of Hindus,” One guy in khadi kurta would declare
.
“It is better that Hindus are converted…” another would comment.

I would hear them out, somtime argue and the finally say, “do you have the guts to say the same things about other religions in public forum.”

That is what I will say today. Engrich and his saathi have a divisive agenda. But they should not spoil a public forum by monoplising space. THe subject is on Anna. Why spoil things and make them nasty….

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Engrich and his saathi have a divisive agenda

mr vijay neither i have any agenda nor i am a politian.i write something which i feel correct.good for the nation.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Most people know the name of that nation!!

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
yes, it is PAkSHIT,STAN.

engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
i dont need ur certificate.this shows ur immaturity.
Anonymous

Vijay
Undermining of the Hindu tradition and culture and pushing it into oblivion by those who have been in Power in India for long, was a collateral fall out of Vote-bank politics. This was a conspiracy of the Left and drew tacit support of the Congress. This was the easiest strategy to win elections in India. Unite thge

[Reply]
Anonymous

@ Vijay

SO you too were part of the beard and kurta brigade ! Interesting…

Anyway, IHMO, Indian seculairsm can only genuinly work as long as Hindus who are 85% of the country remain secular. I know they are lot of attacks all around… but they need to emphatically tell the attackers that do not try to spoil Indian secularism by trying to judge Hindusim in a weighing scale in which you dare not put your own religion…

[Reply]
Anonymous

@ Vijay

Well written…

[Reply]
engrich

shenoy mohan vijay and ravi ,
see following on u-tube,
The Real Reason Why Gadaffi Was Killed & Why We’re In Libya

[Reply]
Anonymous

Mr. Sharma’s new blog is now live.

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

MANOHAR, trying to wean myself off the blog so will quickly answer YOUR MOST IMP QUERIES, not all
1. The article you quote is in error. The trust fund worth 20 million dollars per child was set up 10 years ago, with grandparents as trustees. In the current recession, somehow I do not think the Gates sprogs will ever be signing up for doles or educational loans.

Just their ‘invisible’ security costs millions per year.

2. Merely pointed out that in the west, maybe ? 5% of Indian business families split up, the end result being stability in old age both financial and emotional, with an active role in bringing up grand kids.

On the contrary, for whites the family breakup is 45%, fathers have often not seen thier own kids for years, are embittered and lonely and thus feel no need to pass on a business to ?ungrateful kids- the money is blown up sometimes with the help of very smart and manipulative eastern European girls.

RAVI- repeat- when 2 men have a talk man to man, pl do not, like a jenana throw barbs from behind a veil. Thank you Sir

[Reply]
Anonymous

ANNA HAS THE POWER TO BECOME PM OF THIS COUNTRY, BUT HE NEVER WANTED THAT. ALL THAT HE WANTS IS A STRONG LOKPAL. BY GETTING DEFEATED IN THE NEXT FIVE ASSEMBLY ELECTIONS ONLY YOU WILL LEARN YOUR LESSON.

[Reply]
Anonymous

C – CORRUPT
O- OLIGARCHY
N- NAKED
G- GANDI
R- ROWDIES
E- ERRANT
S- SHAMELESS
S- SPINELESS

[Reply]
Ravi

This disqus is disqusting

[Reply]
Chatty Misanthrope

Bibliomasochism, hey? Damnation without relief.

[Reply]
RK

” Now, contrast his situation with the poor Muslims who lived in slums and tenements, who had their homes ransacked, their daughters raped and their relatives killed during the riots.”

Really? Only Muslims were killed in the riots?

[Reply]
Jai

Really Vir give up writing and find another job. After all, you have quite a burden of corruption on your shoulders.

[Reply]
Radia ki Mummy

abe jaake Radia ki tatti saaf kar aur 10 runpath ki toilet ko clean kar dhang se harpic use kario, aur Raoul Baba ki Diaper bhi dho dio. Journalism tere bas ki nahi, isliye nahi ki tere me talent nahi, isliye ki tu hai khangress ka desi k u t t a !!! hurr!!!

[Reply]
Anonymous

Yes, only Vir Sanghvi and advertised politicians get away for free in independent India. All others pay eventually.

[Reply]
skl

NO Sympathy for Sanjay Dutt, he MUST pay the price. Any body sympathazing with criminals is a part of that team.

[Reply]
Amit

Fair article.

[Reply]
Suren Singh Sahni

In India their is rule of law for some people. How about the corrupt politicians who are murderers rapists and instigators of Genocides ; protectors of culprits involved in Bhopal tragedy police encounters. (Times of India refused to publish this blog). A country’s greatness is judged by the rule of law for all. In India some people are more equal than others.

[Reply]
Devendra Sood

It is easy for Vir Sanghvi, I don’t know who this Sanghvi guy is – I live in US for last 45 years, to vax eloquent but what about Sanjay Dutt being dragged through the courts for over twenty years.

Isn’t there a requirement for timely justice? I would have no compunction seeing Sanjay doing his full five years or whatever the punishment might be. But after 20 years….give me a break.

Any law abiding society, if it wants to follow the law to the letter has a responsibility to meet out that justice in a timely manner. Sanjay has been punished more than enough. And just the courts’ fuc…up is enough to obiate his sentence.

I am no Sanjay fan. I would say that for any man or woman. Any fair society, if it prides itself to be fair and law abiding, must provide timely justice or let people go. You MUST NOT destroy people’s life just because you can.

[Reply]
raj Reply:
March 30th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
timely justice
— but he thought he can get free with money & lawyers dragged on case.
many people in this case, had to be issued arrest warrant for not attending court when summoned. the law gives them more power. many witness became hostile buy taking money. no wonder case is dragged because law does not want a single innocent to he harmed. it was misused by him & his lawyer. How many times he missed court for his film shooting.

[Reply]
JJ

When one reads Vir’S Write up, it is very objectively written and one must respect him for his views.

Well written and Well articulated, Vir.. thank you..The Law is Law.. it is the same for all.

One must respect the Judiciary and not let the Executive waterdown judgements of the Judiciary.( all this Talk about pardon is not fair as then the floddgates would open up).

As Vir mentioned, good behaviour would deifinitely hep in remission of the sentence . Mr Dutt has shown guts in saying that he will not appeal. Let us respect him for that.

[Reply]
raj Reply:
March 30th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Mr Dutt has shown guts in saying that he will not appeal
— hello, its supreme court & he can only file a review petition. He also knows his money, lawyers & political friends are useless, so no use in appeal. if he had accepted his guilt the first day in court, people would hv respected. Lot of tax payers money would hv been saved & it could hv been used for lot of good things. He wasted lot of public money.

[Reply]
RK Sharma

I feel Dutt suffered enough, Sunil Dutt is also no more to help him and Sunil Dutt did lot of good deeds for country, Sanjay made a wrong judgement call, spent 18 months in Jail and is suffering for last 20 yrs, mental tension itself is a big punishment, in India i haven’t seen any big person suffer that much and he was not involved in blasts, also we Indians have tendency to be jealous and revengeful against any famous person, I am middle class person and I know not even one person will support me if I am in trouble but still i feel Sanjay Dutt suffered enough, law and justice system is based on reform and punishment, there are few like Delhi gang rape juvenile who will walk in 3 months (May 2013) and Chief Justice supports him , now can such a person reformed answer is NO, on other hand i feel Sanjay Dutt was not mature and may be opponents of Sunil Dutt set him up in some trap, Now the point is if Sanju baba is let free it will be set as precedent so there can be one way, he has to stay in jail for 3.5 yrs as per supreme court judgement, let him spend 1.5 yrs in Jail and he should donate 2 yrs of earnings in charity (40 crores), this way law will be respected and his suffering will get reduced. If he doesn’t serve any sentence then it may create wrong impression on minds of other youngsters and India is already lawless state, I have sympathy for Dutt and I remember once there was robbery in my home and I got bullet in my body, in government hospital nobody touched me for 4 hrs since I was middle class person with no connections but still I somehow feel this man has suffered as per Indian context, justice should reform those who are at-least remorseful, some people can’t be reformed like Delhi gang rape persons but may be Dutt can be, he has 2 small kids now, if he is not harming anybody why to make criminal of him, find out some middle way. His father also did lot of good things and Sunil Dutt was a good man.

[Reply]
max Reply:
March 30th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
if he is so good as you say & then why did he not accept his guilt the first day in court. He would hv been out of jail now & hv a peaceful life.

— still no words of sympathy for other accused ??? why??? why happend to your assumed humanity

[Reply]
http://twitter.com/sskumar_87 sskumar

how much money they pay you !!. After Radia who?

[Reply]
XYZ

SANJAY DUTT WAS NEITHER A KID NOR A JUVENILE IN 1993———-IF HE WAS FEELING INSECURE HE COULD HAVE APPLIED FOR A REVOLVER LICENSE——–IT IS SURPRISING WHY SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SYMPATHISISNG WITH HIM—SYMPATHY FOR WHAT?—–THERE IS NO SEPARATE CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCUDURE FOR FILM STARS—-BOLLYWOOD IS NOT EXEMPTED FROM INDIAN PENAL CODE

[Reply]
mgnakhate

Indeed as always respect overrides sympathy!

[Reply]
aaditya

Well written.

[Reply]
aaditya

If I am you, I will block these comments which are simply jibes. Better
to have silent readers than commentators who are waiting for a chance to
humiliate you. I will give same advice to Barkha, Karan Thapar etc. Let
these commentators boil and get high blood pressure without any outlet
to ventilate their frustrations.

[Reply]
raj Reply:
March 30th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
freedom of speech only for me !!!!!!

[Reply]
Raj

There is more bravery involved in admitting that you have made a mistake
—– then why not admit his guilt the first day & go to jail. he would hv been out of jail by now & hv a peaceful life. He dragged thinking his money , lawyers & political friends will help.

[Reply]
Raj

calling up your gangster pals and asking them to send over a couple of Kalashnikovs.
—- dawood is a not a petty gangster, he is into terrorism, just to shore up sanjay’s image , don’t downgrade poor dawood, he may get angry !!!! he sent Kalashnikovs and rdx to india for your info.

[Reply]
Anonymous

The latest ecnonomist (british) talks about Journalists getting money from the congress to write praise of maa and naeta dynasties. can you give us some details>

[Reply]
Anonymous

I think you are forgetting that Sanjay was consorting with the mafia till 2000 and they are police tapings on it. The grenades which reached his hosue were not for dewali crackers.

Possibly his drug damaged mind thought he was fighting a filmi gangwar.

Of course being the son of a muslim mother he wanted to protect Muslims. But was this the way?

[Reply]

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