‘Bhaiyya’ maange more



With my regular driver on leave, I decided not to hire another one — I thought it would give me the much-needed opportunity to re-familiarise myself with the public transport system of Bombay that brings with it its own insights as well as sights and sounds that the rolled-up windows of your own car completely shut out of your life.

And, in a week when Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi is receiving much flak for asking Uttar Bharatiyas how long they will beg for jobs in Maharashtra (largely misinterpreted by both politicians and sections of the media: he did not quite call the people of Uttar Pradesh `beggars’), I have re-learnt a thing or two about both the `bhaiyyas’ of Bombay and those who detest them.

I was brought up to always refer to every strange man as `bhaiyya’ (and `bhai sahab’ if he seemed older than me) and told by my elders that this should apply to all – whether speaking to a friend’s brother, a shopkeeper or even my neighbourhood garbage collector.

So it now comes as second nature to me and I am not even able to see whether the man is actually an Uttar Bharatiya or Maharashtrian (in which case it should probably be `bhau’ but that does not come quickly to the tongue), or belongs to another caste or even a different religion. Generally, no one has any objection.

But a couple of days ago, as I took a cab back home (of course, I had as usual addressed the man as `bhaiyya’), the reigning prejudices in the city and the stereotyping of people on the basis of their origins came back to me with great force.

The cabbie had not seemed to mind when I called him `bhaiyya’. But a few minutes later, as he stopped at a traffic sign, another cabbie behind us began to hoot rather vigourously. He seemed to be in a tearing hurry – which became obvious when the lights changed and he came abreast of my own taxi. Dozens of bags and suitcases were loaded into a half-open trunk and onto the roof of his cab and he began to roundly abuse my cab driver. “You could have sailed past that signal. You need not have stopped!’’ he yelled.

My cabbie broke into abuse, using the by now fashionable `D K Bose’ word -the other way round.

As we neared my home, he apologised to me. I did not remember him but he told me I had hired him a couple of times before and he had dropped me off “in that quiet lane that you live in’’. “I am sorry, Madam, I did not want to use bad words but that bhaiyya simply enraged me. His passengers must have been piling on the pressure, not wanting to miss their train, and so he wanted me to jump the signal and break the rules. But why should I? I am not a bhaiyya!’’

I was zapped. I sat silently for a few minutes ruminating on what I had just heard and I didn’t dare use the word `bhaiyya’ for him again. But since it slips so easily off the tongue, I addressed him thus again almost without thinking, as I directed him round the corner — and this time fond myself apologising. “My `bhaiyya’ for you is not because I think you are from Uttar Pradesh. It is as in a `brother’. So please do not mind.’’

Since he is a regular at the taxi stand near my office, both of us knew we might run into each other again and both of us were being extra careful to be polite. “Oh, but I did not mean `bhaiyya’ as an insulting term, Madam. But that cabbie was clearly one and they all break the rules all the time. I am sorry,’’ he said again.

I had not quite got over the incident when I set off for work the next morning. There were no cabs outside my gates, so I called a regular who lived in the (now redeveloping) slum opposite. “I’ll be there in five minutes,’’ he said.

I had always referred to him as `bhaiyya’, too. But now I dared not. So I called him by his name, adding a `ji’ at the end – I could see that he was mildly taken aback.

The formality of my address to him must have given him some food for thought for he was not his usual chatty self that morning. But he took a few minutes to give me an update as he stopped at my office and I dug into my bag for the fare.

“I have been wanting to tell you for a long time, Madam, since you are a journalist and might be meeting a lot of people…if any one needs any space, please refer me to them first.’’

I didn’t quite understand. “What? Have you started a marriage hall or a party hall or something like that? Didn’t you have a milk business, too?’’

“I still have it. My booth is just outside your gate. But that was not enough. Now I am into real estate. I have become an estate agent,’’ he told me both rather shyly and a little proudly.

“Oh!’’ I was completely floored. “An estate agent! Well, I would never have believed it.’’

He gave me a long hard look and then said without any rancour, “Bhaiyya hoon, Madam. Apna aur apne parivar ka pet paalne ke liye har mauke ke intezaar mein rehta hoon. Ek mauka bhi haath se jaane nahin deta. (I am a bhaiyya, Madam. I am always looking for better opportunities. Never let one slip past me).’’

As the slums where he lived went under the hammer in the government’s reconstruction/ redevelopment plan, he found his opportunity there as well. He now has some `spaces’ that he is looking to rent out or even sell. He wanted me to spread the word around.“ So you will give up your taxi and milk business if that takes off?’’

“No. I will hand them over to my brother to run and keep them going as a fallback. They are for subsistence. But I will greatly appreciate your help. I am hoping this new business will give my family a better life. Every opportunity counts.’’

“Oh, yes, it does,’’ I said, as I got off his taxi.

I am still thinking about him and the other cabbie – `bhaiyya’, quite obviously, means different things to different people. And no one, including the Thackerays (both Uddhav and Raj, who have made much this week of Rahul Gandhi’s comment), should really look down upon people who try to make the best of their opportunities to eke out a living, no matter what those opportunities might be and where they might take them.

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  • Anonymous

    An apologist for Rahul gandhi..Had varun done the same thing Sujata would be giving totally different logic.

    Rahul Gandhi intentionally CHIDED people calling them beggars and incting hatrred for maharashtrians and punjabis.

    He did same in Bihar and was booed away by student when he brought up Gujarat..Listen to what a student said to him-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEodElHamrM

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  • http://twitter.com/SelfMadeScholar The Scholar

    nice

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  • Ramesh Talwani

    RAHUL SPEAKS FROM HIS UNDERSTANDING OF MASSES,,WHO ARE NO BETTER THAN BEGGARS. RAJ THAKREY SURVIVED BECAUSE OF CONGRESS ONLY.
    AS PER HIM ALL PERSONS WORKING IN OTHER STATES ARE BEGGARS.SEE THE TRAGEDY ,A PERSON WHO IS BEGGING SUPPORT CALLS ,GIVERS -BEGGARS.
    THE WHOLE CONGRESS JUSTIFIES THE STAND OF RAUL WINCI.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JRL42KKUAFYBZSO37F3KEBLEDM Shajan

    What Rahul Gandhi said is factually correct but politically incorrect.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    So you mean to say that all migrants are Beggars..Truly a congressmen..devoid of any brain.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    You mean Amitabh Bachchan is a beggar.

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  • http://digitalblogindia.in/ Kunal

    Sunita…fyi the other “bhaiyaa” or whatever you want to call him was probably breaking the rules as well. First of all he lives in a slum is illegal, secondly he is being given a free house by he government on public property and in that also he is breaking the rules and renting out or selling those properties.

    Is it any surprise that these people are disliked ?

    And the first one was right…it’s because of the “bhaiyas” that there is no traffic sense in Mumbai today. Raj thackeray is not opposed to migrants coming and living legally but we do not want them coming and living in slums, breaking the rules and taking the jobs meant for other poor people.

    You are nothing but supporting a criminal there…you should be reporting him if he is doing deals on the slum redevelopment properties. Instead of that you are encouraging him saying that look how hardworking these people are….yes hardworking in breaking all the rules. Most journalists have now started demeaning the local population by subtly stating that look the migrants are hard working and you guys are lazy…if they are so hard working…ask them to break the rules in their own state and grow instead of flooding the other states.

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  • Jay Effkay

    LOL

    China is a despicable society

    To think theyre taking the high road and mocking is RIDICULOUS LOL

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  • Parmanu

    You love cricket. You just don’t know it. Go back and read all the reasons why you went to watch the game.

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    Kushal Reply:

    I am bored by cricket, Parmanu. I did go back and read all the reasons I went to watch the game and they had nothing to do with cricket.

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  • http://twitter.com/amishra77 Akhilesh Mishra

    Sorry if I sound presumptuous in the next few lines, but still :

    Then :

    When you did watch cricket it was because you were “less interested in the cricket than in the wandering chaatwallas and the opportunities to play with other children”
    Or
    You watched in Eden Gardens because it was less about “cricket than about bunking school and the excitement of being in the Eden Gardens stands….I could talk about it at school for weeks”
    Or
    You “..remember being too excited to sleep that glorious night in 1983 when India won the World Cup – the Prudential Cup – and Calcutta went crazy. But I wasn’t excited about the cricket. I was just excited that India had won. Even though I was in my early teens, I could sense that something in the world had changed.”

    Now :

    Now when you do not watch cricket, you are by your own admission, an introvert – who hardly likes parties, rarely interacts with friends, etc etc.

    Difference :

    See what difference a game of cricket makes. It is not just a sport. It is a lifestyle. A way of life. At least in the subcontinent. Cricket is about camaraderie, freinds, joy, happiness – and excitement of a teenage even when you are middle age !

    And I have not read Chinaman, but I am sure in some way the book captures this way-of-life thing.

    Sorry again, if I sounded too presumptuous :)

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    Kushal Reply:

    I really don’t get you, Akhilesh. What have you got against introverts and why are you taking it out on me? If I don’t want to tweet or post status messages or go to parties, how does it upset YOU? Do you not have a life yourself?

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    Akhilesh Mishra Reply:

    Fair.

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  • Kushal

    Mostly, it’s about the game, Kanika and that is sooooooooo BORING!

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  • Kushal

    Yaay Parvana, you kindred spirit.

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  • Kushal

    Good heavens! Alec Ishmart! What a blast from the past. Where have you been???

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  • Kushal

    Well, if you ever feel the need to discuss birds and bats, you could mail me at kushalgulab@hindustantimes.com, Masha.

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  • http://www.ianswer4u.com/ I Answer 4 u

    Sorry for taking a political view of the blockbuster, but i feel India also needs its Avengers to revive its fast diminishing “glory” and “shine”….

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  • Jimmy

    Don’t believe everything these media jokers say!

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  • Anonymous

    Excellent, Vir.
    Public sector transport workers all over the world have got used to having their way by holding the government — and the public — to ransom.

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  • Kushal

    Hey, you were always fun to chat and argue with in the comments boxes, Alec. You keep in touch!

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  • Guest

    Looking at Kingfisher, one wonders whether even the private sector knows how to run an airline profitably.

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  • Bob Star

    “Western countries, on the other hand, must shift from just condemning
    religious bigotry to criminalizing it, building on the UNHRC’s
    Resolution 16/18. That’s the way forward.”

    I disagree. Freedom of speech is valued far higher in the West. While I will admit, deliberate provocation of Islam is completely stupid – causing innocent people to die means free speech has to be used wisely – but pandering to Muslim sensitivity is not the way to go.

    Every time I hear ‘Islam is a religion of piece’ it makes me want to laugh and scream at the same time. Islam is by far the most violent and barbaric religion around today. Christianity was there around 200 – 300 years ago. It will just take time for Islam to become more civil. It’s going to be hard to find that patience though. Hopefully with technology and the internet that process can be sped along. I hope Muslims will be able to make jokes about their own religion without people having to die in the future – much as we make jokes about red haired people, the Welsh and Christianity in the West.

    Strangely (and thankfully), in the West, people are moving onto the next step: atheism. It seems to have gone from violent Christianity, to more peaceful Christianity, and now we are reaching a tipping point where a lot of the younger generation are becoming atheists.

    I pray that everyone will be an atheist soon and we can get rid of these idiotic and dangerous religions.

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  • Anonymous

    cmon zia brother

    U know that all mussalas are tagutht to hate all other religionsas beign inferior. it is a gr8 game. The propehet is gr8 (PBUH) I love him.

    Let others make a porno about him. Why should it bother me. It is a free market out there. We muslims make fun of SHias, Ahemadiyas and Ismailesa.. We butcher the Sikhs and HIndus.

    All so rotten.

    Bamiyan Buddhas fell to 200 cannon shots. So we are a joke. Be liberal brother. Most of Islamic tezxt is against women and otehr religions. It is outdated.

    Katrina kaif would be buitceherdd today f our neighbourhood mullah had tthe choice. Madhubala the sexiset gal born would have been in jannat afeter a beheading. be agood muslim and forget iislamic books for a change.

    I got a cut. But it does not mean I cannot date hindu gals without conversion. Yeh sab drama hai. Islam is as good or as bad as any other religoan. Allah is not the final word. Einstein and Darwin k now more than Koran, half of it is wrong. So why spread myths?

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    Davar Hussain Reply:

    *******, if you talk like that in front of me , you will surely wish you were never born

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    Foulitics Reply:

    Here is one “true” Muslim. :-) . Thuggery comes naturally.

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    Abhishek Reply:

    Thank you Mr. Hussain. I am sure you represent the voice of “silent and moderate” majority :)

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    Anonymous Reply:

    so when are you joining the Taliban?

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    Shahriar Reply:

    Alas, if you had ever read Quran a wee bit, you would have realized that Einstein knows exactly what Quran says. And Darwin? OMG, even his followers rejected his cheap, illogical hypothesis (Darwin himself said his views as hypothesis, please note). Please brother, read and read to find out what a stupid illogical unscientific person this Darwin was, ha ha. Anyway, though I am a stern believer as a Muslim, I do never support arrogance and violence; to me, patience, tolerance and rationality MUST be the weapons against anti-Islam aggression by the Free Masonic agents worldwide. :)

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    Anonymous Reply:

    So where did the bones of the dinosaurs come from? Surely not from a CHinese toy factory?

    Anyway i appreciate your gentle way of engaging and not the crass accusations someone else made.

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    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ Shahriar If you had comprehended the same book you are sanctimoniously advising another to read; you would be certain that the ‘earth is laid out as a carpet and the mountains are placed to hold it (in place). Darwin had the self-respect and intellectual honesty not to claim divine promptings for his postulate ( which has only now been confirmed by the technological progresses in DNA sciences). So brother, before advising others and debunking Einstein and Darwin please get in order your basic knowledge-base. The Church sponsored scientists have spectacularly failed and those scientists who had decided to throw away their scientific credentials for the sake of their belief are non-existent today either in their reputations or their numbers.
    Instead of focusing your intellectual curiosity only to puncture holes in the mathematically and chemically proven facts, you would do a lot of good to yourself if you began to seriously question the antecedents and credentials of a caravan-raider, pedophile, slave-merchant who opined that the sun settles each night to rest under the throne of the almigthy.

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    ssraja Reply:

    U don’t know islam nor ur mullas who teach hatred .first know about islam then express u r views . nor Einstein nor darwin reach the sky
    till date know one knows how life came into existence .whatever developments u r seeing today r marely just 150 year old this is the initial stage there is a lot to explore and know about so don’t come to conclusions and say that darwin and einstein r gods .

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  • Foulitics

    “Western countries, on the other hand, must shift from just condemning religious bigotry to criminalizing it, building on the UNHRC’s Resolution 16/18. That’s the way forward.”

    Where will that leave the ummah who practice bigotry in an industrial scale? This is crude way to protect the “sensitivities” of bigoted societies. Bigoted societies need to follow the civilized world and not the other way around. So for starters, any state calling itself “Islamic republic” should drop that term since it implies that nonmuslims in those societies are inferior. I am sure Zia wouldn’t support India being named as “The Hindu republic of India” but I am not so sure that he will support countries dropping the Islamic tag in their names. That’s the sign of a true hypocritical bigot.

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  • http://profile.yahoo.com/4L2EPTWZ43IVCYG6KTY7ICOSU4 Jess

    Islam may preach peace but most muslims are violent. Muslims use the rules of islam as per their own convenience, then try preach you the stories from the koran.
    China handles pakistan and its muslims well. Muslims know china does not buy their islamphobic stories. if they did this drama in front of a Chinese embassy, China will hunt and kill them all like pigs, maybe a few more just to set an example. Like India’s modesty in kargil, china will not stop at the border. It will show the real face of muslims.
    it is just a movie and there should be freedom of speech. The movie is funny. I hope there is a sequel. All this killing,violence, drama has shown that muslims are weak & violent people. The movie could have some truth to it.

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  • Sumit Bose

    Mr Muslim, as your other articles, this too is long on rhetoric and terribly poor on facts. you consider “Incendiary films, literature and cartoons that poke Islam are not an
    expression of free speech. I consider them to be hate speech”. In short your position is in no way divergent from those thugs all around the world who choose to get into rampage mode, whenever it is convenient to whip up a mob.
    This trailer was posted on 1st July and it is an absoloutely shoddily made movie, for certain, but the facts are clearly, without much alteration, straight out of Bukhari’s collection!
    It amazes me no end, when pious Muslims spend hours and hours reading the scriptures, but have not been offended in what is in the most authoritative of the H@diths. I wonder if they have any comprehension of the hours and hours of reading they have indulged in. If they have understood the facts that were dutifully compiled by Bukhari, then it is very clear that they don’t want anyone else to know what is between the covers of this most authoritative source of Islamic history.
    You conclusion that Muslims should look back at the life of the Prophet; and my point is they are doing exactly that! He NEVER forgave anyone who questioned his actions/claims.
    He got a nearly 100 year old man (Abu Talib, I think) assassinated because he opposed his religious claims. He requested volunteers from among his followers to kill Asma, who wrote satirical poems about his caravan looting and slaughters. One who did the bidding of the “most exalted human ever” returned with remorse and guilt, only to be assured by him, that “even two goats will not butt their heads for her”.
    The list is long and this is no forum for giving out the vast expanse of bigotry and brutality that was the defining characteristic of “most exalted human ever”. Is it any wonder that this group have to drum up a show of force to silence facts that are now freely available on the internet.
    Mr Muslim, what value is the merit of your “secular” education if you too choose to be a “gathiya taqqiya” and opine to criminalize any recounting of recorded facts, where even truth is no longer a defense against a group who feel “outraged” . Your teachers must be hanging their heads down in shame at your residue of all the long years of educations resources that have been squandered for you.

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  • Anonymous

    My comments have created a reaction which I would like to clarify.

    Frankly as a Muslim I am disturbed that my right to question my religion is taken over by a orthodox Maulvi. How can one’s brain be dictated by a guy who claims who knows everything all because he read or misread a book.

    Islam has to be tolerant and give the right to convert. If some Muslim wants to become a scientist– does he have to get stuck at the quranic stories?

    My right to reject what is clearly wrong cannot be taken away by an idioit who says he knows all because his beard is longer.

    This way Islam will keep fighting with the rest of the world. Sunnis will fight Shias will fight ahemadiyas will fight Ismailis will fight—– etc etc

    Human rights supersede the ideas superimposed by violent clergy.

    This way no human rights and women’s rights program will take place in a Muslim country. We will first wait for Christians and Hindus to progress and then copy all because we cannot fly as the “maulvi and book knows it all.”

    A bad film insulting the prophet should not disturb is but instead make Muslims feel morally superior.

    Need i get in all the propaganda material in Muslim countries against other religions?

    Furtheron we have too much of the victim card. Are we victims always?

    Some weeks back the students from NE were being chased out of South India… all because some idiots blamed them for a Muslim killing in Burma.
    Did we come out on the roads then?

    Stop this victim hood falsehood and free our women– even if it violates the religious text. That is the only way a Muslim mind will be as free as some other minds.

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    Bob Star Reply:

    Parvez you are an angel. You give me hope in this irrational world.

    Good luck to you.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Well I am a rational person… so I think!

    Hope peace prevails and hatred for others’s religion is not taught anywhere, and most of all not thru the interpretations of the koran.

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  • Anonymous

    I don’t have to prove my credentials as a Muslim to you. In fact you need to prove your credentials as a human being to me. My mission in life is to puncture the humbug we Muslims practice all our lives. Yes, I am a management student and from a family of respected Muslim doctors which knows the hadiths backwards. It is my right to reject what I see is factually incorrect and against human rights.

    You will never understand because you believe in violence against anybody who speaks the truth. Unless paras and practices in Islam are categorically rejected, Muslims all over the world will find themselves in confrontation with the world. Dont let your rhetoric sway you into a false belief of victimhood.

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    Shahriar Reply:

    Aah, if you would have known the definition of TRUTH brother……:)

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  • Bob Star

    Saj darling, it will never happen (me converting). How can an atheist be a sheep?? We are the only ones who think for ourselves and don’t follow any “holy” book. We are ruled by proof and evidence – that is all.

    If what you say is true about 2025 – then the world is well and truly screwed. How many violent animals can this planet take?
    Just to be clear, I don’t mean all Muslims of course. Just those who like to fight, kill and maim because it makes them feel good, or think that a books tells them it’s ok. Those are the animals. If all Muslims were like Parvez – we wouldn’t even be having this discussion – because people like him make this world a better place.

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  • Bob Star

    Some people will refuse to believe you even though we both know it’s true. It seems to be what happens to the religious mind. It’s the same with Jesus. If he was around today he wouldn’t be seen as a good person. He’d be closer to an Afghan warlord of today.

    The truth is morality changes and evolves (for the better) and that has nothing to do with religion. It comes from culture and inspired people. Religion is fixed and unchanging. If we still lived as they did in the Christian West a few hundred years ago, then people would still be being burned for being witches, or fathers would be offering their daughters as a sacrifice or to be raped. All that stuff was normal in the Bible.

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  • Anonymous

    I am here as a human being and not a bigoted supporter of any religion.

    Let me be frank. Most religions can be torn apart in context of today’s knowledge. While all of us have a right to believe what we desire, you cannot take my right away to reject what I perceive as wrong.

    Why is Islam in confrontation with the rest of the world?

    A few Muslims have tried to blame it on all, but never on themselves. Even in this blog :)

    let me give a respectable translation of the Quran from Dar us Salam publications which is used to poison us against others. NO bad intentions on my side. Just factual plain speaking.

    Here is the first Surah. Please note that the interpretation talks about the low life of Jews and Christians.

    ——–

    1. Surah Al-Fatihah1.

    In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

    2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

    3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

    4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)

    5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).

    6. Guide us to the Straight Way

    7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

    ——————————————-

    This interpretation straight away goes hammer and tongs at jews and Christians. SO are we training new minds for a peacefull world?

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  • Dr Mishra

    PARVEZ AHMED

    ==============
    Can I say that I have followed Parvez for the last 1 year on these blogs. Yes, he is genuinely a muslim whose father and sister is a doctor. He is modern and thinks rationally.
    He does slam ppl like Ravi and engrich-tajender who are militant Islamists or OBC- he does not take prisoners !! His heart is Indian, his religion is mild. Like mine.
    Most militant muslims have an issue with him, but they should realise that if they want to integrate and do well socially and financially, then they would do well not to attack him but read what he says.
    Regards Dr M, Harrowgate, UK

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx Doc. I always try to be rational. And let me also state that in the context of the 7th century, The Koran came up with many many new scientific concepts and even recognised the rights of women on property.

    But alas, people who only think about the exact word and not the intention are creating a fight all over the world. If the Koran says two women should only get as much property as one man, then they are two ways to see this

    a) The Koran was far reaching in the 7th century to recognize this and give women the right to family property. The good way. let us improve this now and give women an equal share.

    b) The bad way which unfortunately idiots are stuck up with.– women should only be worth half of what a man is– all becasue the Koran says so.

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  • ssraja

    First thing i want to say is islam is not a religion.as most of the world thinks.
    islam is not myth it is fact of life it is a way of living it shows how to be a human being.in islam there is nothing like god nor any idol worship it is a system every
    human being has to follow.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Let me be blunt here. I am from a Muslim family and many people dot consider me a Muslim since I dont believe in Maulvis imposing their rot.

    Blind worship of koran and imposing it word by word by force on Muslims, non Muslims and athiests is worse than idol worship. That is what is happening now

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    ssraja Reply:

    Mr parvez then u must know islam is not a religion it is just a system which makes u a human being. we muslim’s follow sunnah (living style of prophet mohammed(pubh)) did prophet(pubh) spread hatred.is there place for hatred in islam.r taliban real muslims do they represent muslims in the world.to be frank u don’t find a real muslim it is very hard to find a real muslim who practice islam .sahabah have donated their wealth to adopt islam show me a single muslim who is not greedy selfish .u should know allah will not accept u r prayer if u commit a single gunah in between the prayers.in todays world commiting henious crimes in the name of islam and the western world is provoking the muslim’s for their greedy intentions they have captured phalastine and now iraq afgasnistan libya lebnon for oil they r defaming the muslims their intentions r purly economical they just want to loot the natural resources of the muslim country’s.as an individual u write any thing u want u have the right to express not in the name of islam r muslim.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Why should it be difficult to find real Muslims?

    Everyone claims I am the real Muslim and then seeks to chop the head of the other. Why should Shias be fignthing with Sunnis? or vice versa?

    I am a sceptical Muslim. I will now reveal above why Islam is in confrontation with other religions and with itself.

    ssraja Reply:

    mr parvez it is for domination(for khilafat) its politics not islam and they shia’s put islam in a different prospective as a religion which is not there is no place for worshiping objects of any kind in islam .even u can’t worship prophet(pubh) as god it is sin in islam .how can a human being r a star be god when the universe is so vast where just a galaxy has billions of stars .it takes100 light years to reach the nearest star.
    so don’t go into these kinds of arguments .if u want be a muslim(follower of islam) then just u choose the path of prophet(pubh) just follow sunnah nothing else.

    Anonymous Reply:

    But you are saying that Shias, Ismailis and Ahemediyas are not good Muslims. While Osama and Hafeez Saeed are good Muslims because they are in your perception doing what you believe is right.

    I think you need to open the arteries of your mind.

    ssraja Reply:

    mr parvez i did’nt say that, i think u should cosnsult a good islamic scholar, islam is just following sunnah that’s all .while osama and hafeez i don’t know about them what they have to do with islam ,r they messangers of god. shias, ismaiilias ahmadias i don’t know what they preach and practice,but for certain they don’t follow sunnah.and i don’t have right to criticise followers of other religion r believes .one thing u should know islam says allah is the creater of the universe .
    now u may say who is allah ,allah is nothing he has no physical appearence ,and no one has ever seen him.and the holy quran says mohemmad(pubh) is his massenger.living style of prophet(pubh) is sunnah,if u believe other than this then u r not the follower of the islam that’s it.and the main aim of islam is to be human not more that. and u r quoting some sooras, u must is each line of quran in context . and quran is in arabic litreture and there r many scholars have their own view versions because of that there r as many as 76 firkhas.

    Anonymous Reply:

    That is the trouble . Consult a good islamic scholor. Now who is this good Islamic scholar? Even Zakir naik considers himself a good Islamic scholar. The scholar i like may seem to be a complete idiot to you.

    In the end these so called scholars will drive Muslims to fight all– Non Muslims and Muslims with variationas i belief.

    I think this so called rigideness to follow texts to the word is the problem in current day Islam. You should rather work with peopl like me to revise texts which are against women and other religions.

    ssraja Reply:

    yes zakir naik in present days he is a good scholar who has knowledge of other scriptures also .u r miss guided about islam .what i have said earlier that don’t look what others have done in the name of islam just do follow sunnah nothing else.
    there is propaganda about is islam is cruel to women in islam women r not treated as equal it is wrong. it respects women no other religion does.because the creator knows what product he has created so u n me don’t know. so don’t believe in false propaganda.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ SS Raja

    Thank you for your reply. I appreciate that you have put in the effort to give your viewpoint on all this. I would give my reply over two days as right now I am sitting with my University friends and enjoying India prevail over Pakistan in the first half of the match.

    In my opinion, Zakir Naik is a very very very poor scholar. He is in fact a manipulator who has occupied centrestage of manipulating Muslim thought.

    In my second opinion, I think the Quran has nothing to offer to women as equals to men for the 21st century unless it is take int he spirit. When my sister was 18, my grandfather asked her to read the Quran,

    her first question was of disappointment.
    “the entire text is addressed to males… ” was her reaction. “It has paras like you can have one, two three four wives… women are your cultivation… ”

    In no way is it adressed to a woman. When you say, “woman are yours…”

    The whole dialogue is to a male.

    Raja sir, I will love e to have your opinion as I sincerely feel that Muslims need to break the hegemony fakes like Zakir naik have imposed on us.

  • ssraja

    sorry real muslim don’t be agitated sir by just having a muslim name is not a muslim u should know what is islam and islam it teaches to have patience.

    [Reply]

  • Plumbline

    1 Peter 2:23-24……….
    23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    Here all r angry about islam.today there r more than 1 billion muslims in the world they r all not arabs .all these muslims did’t get converted to islam by force they have adopted islam because they liked the living style of prophet mohammed(pubh)all atrocities done in the name of islam r not the preachings of prophet(pubh) islam is just following the sunnah(living style of prophet(pubh)
    nothing more than that and if u don’t follow that u r not a muslim.islam is was adopted by many cults,culture,religion and region so there r many kinds of people and it is natural to show their behavior then where is the fault of islam.
    there is no place in islam for a person who is greedy,selfish,cruel and inhuman to others.it is human to react if some one provokes u that dose’nt mean that islam is bad .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    SS Raja

    That is the trouble. Everyone claims I am the true Muslim and you are not, so I will kill you.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    we human beings r animal in nature(greedy and selfish) what islam preaches is to be a human that’s all . if u r not greedy and selfish helpful to fellow being then u r the most respected person in the soceity that is a muslim.

    [Reply]

    amerigramma Reply:

    Actually, Muslims are the least respected persons in societies that are not run by Islamic laws. Muhammad was greedy and selfish and hateful, one of the worst monsters in history. He is right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Kim Sung Il, Vlad the Impaler, Nero and the rest of the creepy twisted mass murderers. Anyone twisted enough to truly know the Quran and Haddiths and follow what is written in those books are equally guilty. Many “peaceful” Muslims are that way because they don’t know their books or what their religion is really about. They try to inject their niceness into the very hateful religion of Islam but it doesn’t work that way. The rate of Islamic followers is declining because more people are now actually taking the time to read their books.

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    @amerigramma no religious book preaches hatred r un equality except brahmanism which has divided a human into castes .its seems u r from that community.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    mr sharma u divided a human into 100 pieces in name of caste u created untouchability because of that today india has more muslims u still practice untouchability .

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ssraja, please get it clear, there is a very brutal episode involving your direct ancestor,who had to kiss the feet of maurading foriegners and to save his body being seperated from his head and having his wife and children from being sold into slavery, This “untouchability” myth is foisted upon us by the Congressi Marxist Historians, who have been drumming into us all that the “Muslims started COMING to India”. It lead V.S. Naipaul question: As if they were coming into India in tourist caravans!
    This brutal episode in not just what your hapless ancestor had to ingest with humiliation; it was something that millions of Indians had to endure. This is a terrible episode in india’s past that has been adroitly covered up by our Congressi marxists, and it was not something that the Mughals brought into India, it started way before with the scoundrels of the Slave dynasties. Emperor Akbar was the only one who brought in a genuine composite entity, when he took Raja Man Singh’s help to defeat Ahmad Shah Abdali ( who was a star in forced conversions). besides Akbar had rejected Islam. I would suggest you read M.A.Khan’s well researched book name “Islamic Jihad” to put to rest once and for all this red herring that “untouchability” is the prime motivator of so many muslims in India.

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    mr sumit ji y r u peeking into history now too u practice untouchability u live in a seperate colonies u don’t entertain other communities U (brahmins) r just 4% of the population
    of the country and u enjoy 95% of the wealth of this country
    i have seen the atrocities of brahmins on dalits and sc’s
    now too they r commiting atrocities in north india.because of u r untouchbility most of the dalits and sc’s have adopted islam there r more than 50 crore muslims in (pak,bangladeshand india)these people not came from arab in carvans.these people r indian habitats ,in islam all r equal
    and don’t refer me to read any khan’s book nor the khan nor u know about islam .if some one commits crime in the name of islam that is not the fault of islam .who ever commits crime he is a criminal there is no place for any kind of crime in islam .islam has said there is nothing physical like god 1400 years now scientific community and people r realizing that universe is vast there cannot a be any human r an idol be a god

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ssraja, ignorance is bliss and you would continue to be ignorant even about the religion you are born into. There are 624 suras that specifically advocate violence. there is no purpose servered showing an ornament or book to a monkey, it will just rip them apart. Another correction, I am not from a Brahmin family, hehe.

    ssraja Reply:

    sumit ji really u don’t know about islam ,u may know some bad people having muslim name’s authoring some books to defame islam if u really serious meet some good scholars and clear u r doubts but don’t defame islam it is the islam which has shown the mankind 1400 years ago when there were no satalites nor any communication devices that universe is vast and the sun is just a star in a galaxy which has billions of stars like that u can’t worship these stars nor any man r any manmade things.but most of the religions still practice stoneage retuals like hindus do worship stones trees.first u come out of islamphobia . even our indian scientist kept project papers in front of a stone for blessings , that there is no god like thing in universe today what the scientists r saying.in sura’s they may be advocating see them in a context ,don’t single out .

  • Anonymous

    I think a lot of people want to demolish my being a Muslim and then be satisfied!

    Well I find it funny. Why can’t there be a frank debate on the very nature of how Islam is finding itself in confrontation with the world and with itself? If I start this I surely will be called a fake Muslim, especially by people who claim to be the only Muslims. And then claim Victim hood ! Wow !

    let me start with the first Alphabet of this REAL debate. The right of being born a Muslim and yet appreciating what Maulvis don’t like. Music, churches, hymns, Beer, Aishwariya rai… Darwin, Einstien,

    I am sure the hackles of many a pure blood would already be raised. After all Muslims are only supposed to like this and only supposed to hate this. What rotten shit !!

    Who the F*** has the right to rule my brain?

    [Reply]

  • Foulitics

    I remember Zia writing that MF Hussein went into exile because he was “persecuted” or some such word. He is a fanatic. Fanatics can only be hypocrites since they stand on top of a sand castle which can crumble anytime.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Babu

    Thank you for your kind words. I think we Muslims are deliberatly foisted a feeling of victim hood and end up confronting many gentle people. My aim is to shake up the innocent Muslim human and make him see that he is being made a fool.

    I have added a few more points to your query, “upstairs.’

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    To all the Muslims on the blog

    Let me clarify I am just trying to bring sanity in the debate. It is very easy to keep crying that the world is ganged up against us. It serves no purpose. We need to train our minds in order to interpret Islam as per today’s world.

    let me quote again from a version of Quran I have during a time when my parents were in Saudia. The world should evolve now. Of course Islam originated in the area where Christianity and Jews existed. But do we need to now have the same intrepretation? The Surah Ale Imran itself in the Dar Us Salam publication has at least 45 barbs at Chirstians and Jews. We need to have a interpretation which does not pitch the young mind AGAINST the other religions.

    Now there are more vicious versions of Koran deliberately created to poison minds in say Pakistan. In the end the war of civilizations triggers of.

    Here is a part of the Sorah as in the intrepretation. Please not the stress on how we Muslims are superior to Jews and Christians. Okay all religons say that to some extent, but for the new world we need an amendment– otherwise the world will blow up.

    —————————————
    98. Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you reject the Ayat of Allah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) while Allah is Witness to what you do?”

    99. Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you stop those who have believed, from the Path of Allah, seeking to make it seem crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses [to Muhammad as a Messenger of Allah and Islam (Allah's Religion, i.e. to worship none but Him Alone)]? And Allah is not unaware of what you do.”

    100. O you who believe! If you obey a group of those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians), they would (indeed) render you disbelievers after you have believed!

    [Reply]

    Shubhra Aurita Roy Reply:

    hello, you completely rock! power to you… I am really really impressed but stay safe. This is what I have been saying for years now. every single religion has grisly tales in its past because hello, they evolved in the BC period and in a different context. Every single religion… however the people following them evolved and took what made sense and discarded what did not and there was nothing that said that they cannot question or ignore. Don’t get me wrong – there are a few elements that i completely love about Islam (complete egalitarianism, rights to women in that era etc.) but lots that is questionable just as I question the Manusmriti or even that holy cow Rig Ved or the Old Testament. But its crazy that one cannot question anything that is written in the Muslim holy books… how will thepeople evolve? I also notice that in recent times, as the world has become more stressed those who seek an extremely prescriptive religion seem to gravitate towards Islam because it pretty much tells you how to think and behave for every thing

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Rashid

    I live in Delhi. I find it impossible to believe that 90 women are burnt alive everyday. The figure could just be 1 or 2.

    Rape capital? Well the treatment of women ACROSS ALL RELIGIONS in India (except possibly barring Syrian Keralite Christians) is bad. In Muslims, the bad, gender un-equal, personal law makes it abhorrent.

    Rape Capital is a word which the sensation driven press has evolved.

    yes, we need to eb rich as Europe. But then we need fast economic growth and not this vote bank politics of confrontation and riots.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Zia;
    You reiterated some reports or studies. these are US based people but you are India based journo, you tell us, what is lacking amongst muslim communities, which is making them going down and down. please eloborate on those factors. let us hear from you specifics and not some foreign reports. Come on, ready to listento you.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    Lack of muslim leadership in india most of the todays leaders r corrupt and selfish these leaders r distroying the lives of the muslims in india.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Raja

    Sir, let me continue the debate we were having in the last blog.

    My first grouse against Islamic belief and practice is that the Quran is just addressed to men. When my sister read it the first time, she commented that the entire discourse is addressed to a man.
    “You can marry two, three or four times… you can cultivate your women… you should do etc etc….”

    In the context, it gives a deep disadvantage to women. That they can only be viewed as a sub text of men.

    This mindset places most Muslims a step behind other religions and atheists who have broken the bonds with scriptures.

    I am not comfortable that my sister’s husband tomorrow view her in this light or for that matter my daughter (if I ever have one) is viewed as a appendage of her man.

    In your reply on the status of women you were trying to point out that though polygamy is allowed in Islam, in practice it does not happen. Well, a wrong is a wrong. There is no point in saying that the law is bad… but since the crime rate is not so high, why change it. And frankly in my experience in Moradabad and in Saudia, I have seen that multiple wives are not rare. That women are perpetually under threat and feel insecure.

    Anyway I am typing between college assignments. Will continue the discussion later.

    [Reply]

    Abid Reply:

    Mr. parvez, pls read the Quran carefuly u will find at many places Allah addressed to both men/women. you pls read the Quran translation in urdu maulana Abulalamaududi with muqtasar hawashi which is so simple in understanding. Regarding the polygamy which is allowed in Islam but subject to the condition that u will be justifide o/w better to have one wife. Tks n Rgds. Abid

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    sumitji what u r talking about backwardness of muslim community is because of the government policiesand the bureacrates mostly from the rss background.specially not educating them .lets go to the facts what u r india is today because of muslim community .u r top industrialists of this country have made their fortune by serving the muslim countries . today’s reliance industries which has made its fortune by exporting groceries to middle east muslim countries.and hindujas has made their fortune by entertaining the iran shah(the king then).in the 80’s when india was going through foriegn exchange crisis
    the indian muslim who worked in middle east send their hard earned money which helped india’s foreign exchange defict.u r corrupt leaders and industralists what they did for the country they stashed money in swiss banks and other taxheaven countries.what other communities educated brahmins ,gujratis and other communities have done for this country they got educated here by using the infrastructure and sbubsidies. instead of serving the indians they settled in developed countries for their selfish motives.where as the partition is concerned muslim community is not the culprit gandhiji has opposed the division, but the hindu leaders rejected him and he has to leave the congress .jinnah is not a muslim nor he practicesed namaz in his life .he was a secular indian.he worked as sectary for then a hindu party congress.latter some muslimleague members has requested mr jinnah to lead the party with some conditions jinnah accepted.
    both the community leaders want to rule the country because of their selfishness the country is divided not because of the muslims nor hindus .with this division the most loosers r the muslims more than a million lost their lives and other community which suffered is the sikhs who were displaced and lost many lives by this division.and the muslims have lost every thing after partition in india they were treated as second class citizens and in pakistan as mohajirs.where as world is concerned the west has unleashed the terror for oil on muslim countries and blaming the innocent muslims.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I know everyone in the world is wrong, while the Taliban, the LeT , the IM the harkat are lollipop chewing infants.

    Anonymous Reply:

    let us not try to dodge the issue. Can you quote the exact verse literally rather than an intrepretation.

    Abid Reply:

    mr.Raja, polygamy is allowed in Islam but subject to the condition that u will be justifide with them o/w better to have one wife. whether it is in practise or not it is nun of yr bsns. pls be careful next time when u reply to others follow the authenticity. tks. Abit.

    [Reply]

  • Sumit Bose

    Show me one place in the world where muslims statistically stand out as model citizens. In pre-independence India, there were the labourers and watch-men. In UK, where so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have settled, there are, as a group, worse off than the immigrants from the Caribbean.All across Europe North America and even in Australia and New Zealand, it is the same leit-motiff repeating over and over. There are certainly individual exceptions, but how can you ignore such large numbers all across the globe? The mullahs brainwash the muslims to view this as a conspiracy against muslims, not their own short coming.
    Muslims demand respect, but will give no respect to minorities within their own lands. They are constant source of terror and criminality even in places as Thailand and Philippines, were the normal citizens are so calm and peace-loving. Malaysia is the only country in the world where muslims are doing somewhat better, but it also is the only country in the world to “reserve” jobs for the majority community, and they they are doing it without any guilt or shame.
    Thanks to the minority appeasement policies of the ruling party in India, muslims have developed a sense of entitlement to the wealth being generated in India. But, they dont want to educate themselves, they dont want to live crime-free, Muslims from all over the country supported the Muslim League in breaking up the country, being 24.6% of the country’s population then, they were able to wrangle 30% of India’s land mass, and then over 70% of the Muslims did not leave for Pakistan, their promised land of choice. And now this Muslim wants the hard working Indians to fund the community that stabbed India, with freebies that equates them with all the others who have struggled to educate themselves and work hard day in and out for that.

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    mr sumit first remove u r RSS goggles sir.see muslim community with u r human eyes.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @ssraja, please answer the points factually and second them with statistical data. Please, I am no RSS chaddi-walla, I cherish the freedom that Hinduism offers, to be critcial of anything that my rationale and (limited) intellect permits, and when i say anything…it really means everything. I am so relieved and blessed that I am not a blinkered and shackled nuthead, ready to invert logic and truth and accept wild unsubstanciated conspiracies, be blind to the beastiality and brutality chronicled in my scriptures, get into rampages when in a mob.
    tarnish any recounting of recorded facts as “hate”. What is the worth an value of the secular education that has been sqaundered on you, that you are unable to reflect recorded and accepted facts as “hate”. Go and burn out the Bukhari’s collection if you feel so outraged, try your best to put a decent mask for the pedophle, caravan-bandit, mass-murderer, torturer, slave-merchant “rangila ras00l”.

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    sumitji what u r talking about backwardness of muslim community is because of the government policiesand the bureacrates mostly from the rss background.specially not educating them .lets go to the facts what u r india is today because of muslim community .u r top industrialists of this country have made their fortune by serving the muslim countries . today’s reliance industries which has made its fortune by exporting groceries to middle east muslim countries.and hindujas has made their fortune by entertaining the iran shah(the king then).in the 80’s when india was going through foriegn exchange crisis
    the indian muslim who worked in middle east send their hard earned money which helped india’s foreign exchange defict.u r corrupt leaders and industralists what they did for the country they stashed money in swiss banks and other taxheaven countries.what other communities educated brahmins ,gujratis and other communities have done for this country they got educated here by using the infrastructure and sbubsidies. instead of serving the indians they settled in developed countries for their selfish motives.where as the partition is concerned muslim community is not the culprit gandhiji has opposed the division, but the hindu leaders rejected him and he has to leave the congress .jinnah is not a muslim nor he practicesed namaz in his life .he was a secular indian.he worked as sectary for then a hindu party congress.latter some muslimleague members has requested mr jinnah to lead the party with some conditions jinnah accepted.
    both the community leaders want to rule the country because of their selfishness the country is divided not because of the muslims nor hindus .with this division the most loosers r the muslims more than a million lost their lives and other community which suffered is the sikhs who were displaced and lost many lives by this division.and the muslims have lost every thing after partition in india they were treated as second class citizens and in pakistan as mohajirs.where as world is concerned the west has unleashed the terror for oil on muslim countries and blaming the innocent muslims.

  • Abu Ahmed

    Why are all Indian govts pro Hindu when the politician only cares about his/her wealth and power, being the worshipper only of the god of wealth? Because without the Hindu vote, no politician worth his P can ever hope to take part in an election, let alone win one. Indian Muslims too have made the same point but it took them so many years after Independance – now several political parties realise that Muslims of India are as much important to them as the Hindus are – for without the Muslim vote no party can hope to get a clear majority. This is what Mamata banerjee have realised; the same gyan have dawned onto the SP, TDP, BSP, DMK – remaining regional / national parties have to realise the same too. Even the BJP is getting closer to it but is shying away from embracing the same gyan whole-heartedly. Unless all political parties fully realise that without the Indian Muslims contribution to the political beggar’s bowl and so this community can no longer be ignored, no Sachar recommendations are ever going to be accepted or implemented.

    [Reply]

    ssraja Reply:

    Ahmed wake up u r getting fooled by these politician’s .no one is appeasing u.u r leaders r selfish and greedy u r falling into their trap in the name of religion.u r own leaders r dragging u into poverty don’t blame others.and so called educated and welloff community of muslims is so selfish they forget their duty what islam preaches. they treat the poor muslims as untouchable’s.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    I know u r the chaddy wala because of that u r speaking in their language.first know the facts then speak just don’t abuse others sir.

    [Reply]

  • ssraja

    i said mr rss that the foreign exchange came to india by muslims working in middle east which helped india when there were no reforms no IT industry there were no exports
    then india was in need of foreign exchange.

    [Reply]

  • Sumit Bose

    @ssraja, I just dont know where to start to counter your ignorant diatribe…the quintessense of which is to blame USA and the RSS. In the inverted order created by the pseudo-secularists in the Congress and VPSingh (who is also from that cess-pool), in India, it is the so-called under-pivileged who have the aces stacked on their side; the net result: SC/STs and OBCs get ino highly competitive courses by just getting less than 50% marks, while the so-called privileged classes have to grind on even after getting 93% marks. These students end up failing for years in the Medical colleges and in the Professional courses.
    Dr Kalams are not products of hand-outs,but are the direct consequence of determined and focussed hard work nurtured by loving and supportive parents. What do you say of the prodigial son who takes his share and stays back to extract more and more, creating turmoil and disturbance? You have no answers to that. that sums up the mid-set and attitude of the (general) Muslims in India.

    [Reply]

  • rao

    this is neither ur age nor u have knowledge to understand these difficult social issues.by writing more and more u only show how stupid u are.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think you will call anybody who tries to get us Muslims out of this evil personal law, our backward mindset, our intention to fight all as stupid.

    You, must be a moron.

    [Reply]

  • Sumit Bose

    @Saad, M.N Roy was no historian of any repute, he at the best would be as bad in History as was our Chacha Nehru. Will and Ariel Durant were eminent historians who have earned the resounding approval of Historians all over the world. They have termed the Islamic conquest of India as the most brutal and most reprehensible conquest in the annals of World History. Please don’t pass this entire bunch of marxists and pseudo-marxists apologetic drivel as authentic.You want the real dope, read M.A.Khan’s Islamic Jihad and there you will find the translations of the gory details from the chroniclers of each of those slave scoundrels till our great “freedom fighter” Tipu Sultan. And that will open a real pathway for you to understand how some direct ancestor of yours had to lick the boots of some barbarian and had to “honour” himself by accepting Islam, to prevent his head being separated from his torso and to prevent his wife and children being sold into slavery. I am so bemused to read inversions of truth of the direct descendants of those who had to be traumatized; as if the gory details in the K0ran and the bestiality in the H@diths were not reason enough to debunk this terrible baggage of history, when India was down on its knees under the constant flow of bandits from Central Asia.

    [Reply]

    SAAD Reply:

    THE apparently sudden rise and the dramatic expansion of Mohammedanism constitutes a most fascinating chapter in the history of mankind. A dispassionate study of this chapter is of great importance in the present fateful period of the history of India. The scientific value of the study by itself is great, and the meritorious quest for knowledge is sure to be handsomely rewarded. But with us, to-day in India, particularly with the Hindu, a proper understanding of the historical role of Islam and the contribution it has made to human culture has acquired a supreme political importance.
    This country has become the home of a very considerable number of the followers of the Arabian Prophet. One seldom realizes that many more Mohammedans live in India than in any single purely Islamic country. Still, after the lapse of many centuries, this numerous section of the Indian population is generally considered to be an extraneous element. This curious but extremely regrettable cleft in the loose national structure of India has its historical cause. The Mohammedans originally came to India as invaders. They conquered the country and became its rulers for several hundred years. That relation of the conqueror and the subjugated has left its mark on the history of our nation which to-day embraces the both. But the unpleasant memory of the past relation has been progressively eclipsed by the present companionship in slavery. The effect of British Imperialism is no less painful and ruinous for the bulk of the Muslim population than for the masses professing Hinduism. So completely have the Mohammedans become an integral part of the Indian nation that the annals of the Muslim rule are justly recorded as chapters of the history of India. Indeed, Nationalism has gone farther in effacing the painful memory of the past.
    The practice of seeking consolation for the shame of the present in the real or legendary glory of the past has dressed the Muslim rulers of India in brilliant national colors.
    Yet, a Hindu, who prides in the prosperity of the reign of an Akbar, or boasts of the architectural accomplishments of a Shahjehan, is even to-day separated most curiously by an unbridgeable gulf from his next door neighbor belonging to the race, or professing the faith, of those illustrious monarchs who are believed to have glorified the history of India. For the orthodox Hindus who constitute the great majority of the Indian population, the Mussulman, even of a noble birth or high education or admirable cultural attainments, is a ‘mlechha’-impure barbarian-who does not deserve a social treatment any better than accorded to the lowest of the Hindus.
    The cause of this singular situation is to be traced in the prejudice born, in the past, of the hatred a conquered and oppressed people naturally entertained for the foreign invader. The political relation out of which it sprang is a thing of the past. But the prejudice still persists not only as an effective obstacle to national cohesion, but also as a hindrance for a dispassionate view of history. Indeed, there is no other example of two communities living together in the same country for so many hundred years, and yet having 50 little appreciation of each other’s culture. No civilized people in the world is so ignorant of Islamic history and contemptuous of the Mohammedan religion as the Hindus. Spiritual imperialism is the outstanding feature of our nationalist ideology. But this nasty spirit is the most pronounced in relation to Mohammedanism. The current notion of the teachings of the Arabian Prophet is extremely ill-informed. The average educated Hindu has little knowledge of, and no appreciation for, the immense revolutionary significance of Islam, and the great cultural consequences of that revolution. The prevailing n0tions could be laughed at as ridiculous, were they not so pregnant with harmful consequences. These notions should be combated for the sake of the national cohesion of the Indian people as well as in the interest of science and historical truth. A proper appreciation of the cultural significance of Islam is of supreme importance in this crucial period of the history of India.
    The great historian Gibbon describes the rise and expansion of Islam as “one of the most memorable revolutions which has impressed a new and lasting character on the nations of the globe.” One is simply amazed to contemplate the incredible rapidity with which the two mightiest empires of the ancient time were subverted by the comparatively small bands of nomads issuing from the Arabian Desert, fired with the zeal of a new faith. Hardly fifty years had passed since Mohammad assumed the role of the singular Prophet spreading his Message of Peace at the point of the sword, his followers victoriously planted the banner of Islam on the confines of India, on the one side, and on the shore of the Atlantic, on the other. The first Khalifs of Damascus reigned over an Empire which could not be crossed in less than five months on the fleetest camel. At the end of the first century of the Hegira, the “‘Commanders of the Faithful” were the most powerful rulers of the world.
    Every prophet establishes his pretension by the performance of miracles. On that token, Mohammad must be recognized as by far the greatest of all prophets, before or after him. The expansion of Islam is the most miraculous of all miracles. The Roman Empire of Augustus, as later enlarged by the valiant Trajan, was the result of great and glorious victories, won over a period of seven hundred years. Still, it had not attained the proportions of the Arabian Empire established in less than a century. The Empire of Alexander represented but a fraction of the vast domain of the Khalifs. For nearly a thousand years, the Persian Empire resisted the arms of Rome, only to be subdued by the “Sword of God” in less than a decade. Let a modern historian describe the miracle of the rise of Islam.
    �Nowhere was there a vestige of an Arabian state, of a regular army, or of a common political ambition. The Arabs were poets, dreamers, fighters, traders; they were not politicians. Nor had they found in religion a stabilizing or unifying power. They practiced a low form of polytheism. A hundred years later, these obscure savages had achieved for themselves a great world power. They had conquered Syria and Egypt, they had overwhelmed and converted Persia, mastered Western Turkestan and part of the Punjab. They had wrested Africa from the Byzantines and the Berbers, Spain from the Visigoths. In the West they threatened France, in the East Constantinople. Their fleets, built in Alexandria or the Syrian ports, rode the waters of the Mediterranean, pillaged the Greek islands and challenged the naval power of the Byzantine Empire. Their success had been won so easily, the Persians and Berbers of the Atlas Mountains alone offering a serious resistance, that at the beginning of the eighth century it must have seemed an open question whether any final obstacle could be opposed to their victorious course. The Mediterranean had ceased to be a Roman lake. From one end of Europe to the other, the Christian states found themselves confronted with the challenge of a new Oriental civilization founded on a new Oriental faith.” (H. A. L. Fisher, “A History of Europe”, pp. 137/8.)
    How did that stupendous miracle happen? That has been one of the baffling questions for historians. To-day the educated world has rejected the vulgar theory that the rise of Islam was a triumph of fanaticism over sober and tolerant peoples. The phenomenal success of Islam was primarily due to its revolutionary significance and its ability to lead the masses out of the hopeless situation created by the decay of antique civilizations not only of Greece and Rome but of Persia and China-and of India

    [Reply]

    SAAD Reply:

    THE apparently sudden rise and the dramatic expansion of Mohammedanism constitutes a most fascinating chapter in the history of mankind. A dispassionate study of this chapter is of great importance in the present fateful period of the history of India. The scientific value of the study by itself is great, and the meritorious quest for knowledge is sure to be handsomely rewarded. But with us, to-day in India, particularly with the Hindu, a proper understanding of the historical role of Islam and the contribution it has made to human culture has acquired a supreme political importance.
    This country has become the home of a very considerable number of the followers of the Arabian Prophet. One seldom realizes that many more Mohammedans live in India than in any single purely Islamic country. Still, after the lapse of many centuries, this numerous section of the Indian population is generally considered to be an extraneous element. This curious but extremely regrettable cleft in the loose national structure of India has its historical cause. The Mohammedans originally came to India as invaders. They conquered the country and became its rulers for several hundred years. That relation of the conqueror and the subjugated has left its mark on the history of our nation which to-day embraces the both. But the unpleasant memory of the past relation has been progressively eclipsed by the present companionship in slavery. The effect of British Imperialism is no less painful and ruinous for the bulk of the Muslim population than for the masses professing Hinduism. So completely have the Mohammedans become an integral part of the Indian nation that the annals of the Muslim rule are justly recorded as chapters of the history of India. Indeed, Nationalism has gone farther in effacing the painful memory of the past.
    The practice of seeking consolation for the shame of the present in the real or legendary glory of the past has dressed the Muslim rulers of India in brilliant national colors.
    Yet, a Hindu, who prides in the prosperity of the reign of an Akbar, or boasts of the architectural accomplishments of a Shahjehan, is even to-day separated most curiously by an unbridgeable gulf from his next door neighbor belonging to the race, or professing the faith, of those illustrious monarchs who are believed to have glorified the history of India. For the orthodox Hindus who constitute the great majority of the Indian population, the Mussulman, even of a noble birth or high education or admirable cultural attainments, is a ‘mlechha’-impure barbarian-who does not deserve a social treatment any better than accorded to the lowest of the Hindus.
    The cause of this singular situation is to be traced in the prejudice born, in the past, of the hatred a conquered and oppressed people naturally entertained for the foreign invader. The political relation out of which it sprang is a thing of the past. But the prejudice still persists not only as an effective obstacle to national cohesion, but also as a hindrance for a dispassionate view of history. Indeed, there is no other example of two communities living together in the same country for so many hundred years, and yet having 50 little appreciation of each other’s culture. No civilized people in the world is so ignorant of Islamic history and contemptuous of the Mohammedan religion as the Hindus. Spiritual imperialism is the outstanding feature of our nationalist ideology. But this nasty spirit is the most pronounced in relation to Mohammedanism. The current notion of the teachings of the Arabian Prophet is extremely ill-informed. The average educated Hindu has little knowledge of, and no appreciation for, the immense revolutionary significance of Islam, and the great cultural consequences of that revolution. The prevailing n0tions could be laughed at as ridiculous, were they not so pregnant with harmful consequences. These notions should be combated for the sake of the national cohesion of the Indian people as well as in the interest of science and historical truth. A proper appreciation of the cultural significance of Islam is of supreme importance in this crucial period of the history of India.
    The great historian Gibbon describes the rise and expansion of Islam as “one of the most memorable revolutions which has impressed a new and lasting character on the nations of the globe.” One is simply amazed to contemplate the incredible rapidity with which the two mightiest empires of the ancient time were subverted by the comparatively small bands of nomads issuing from the Arabian Desert, fired with the zeal of a new faith. Hardly fifty years had passed since Mohammad assumed the role of the singular Prophet spreading his Message of Peace at the point of the sword, his followers victoriously planted the banner of Islam on the confines of India, on the one side, and on the shore of the Atlantic, on the other. The first Khalifs of Damascus reigned over an Empire which could not be crossed in less than five months on the fleetest camel. At the end of the first century of the Hegira, the “‘Commanders of the Faithful” were the most powerful rulers of the world.
    Every prophet establishes his pretension by the performance of miracles. On that token, Mohammad must be recognized as by far the greatest of all prophets, before or after him. The expansion of Islam is the most miraculous of all miracles. The Roman Empire of Augustus, as later enlarged by the valiant Trajan, was the result of great and glorious victories, won over a period of seven hundred years. Still, it had not attained the proportions of the Arabian Empire established in less than a century. The Empire of Alexander represented but a fraction of the vast domain of the Khalifs. For nearly a thousand years, the Persian Empire resisted the arms of Rome, only to be subdued by the “Sword of God” in less than a decade. Let a modern historian describe the miracle of the rise of Islam.
    �Nowhere was there a vestige of an Arabian state, of a regular army, or of a common political ambition. The Arabs were poets, dreamers, fighters, traders; they were not politicians. Nor had they found in religion a stabilizing or unifying power. They practiced a low form of polytheism. A hundred years later, these obscure savages had achieved for themselves a great world power. They had conquered Syria and Egypt, they had overwhelmed and converted Persia, mastered Western Turkestan and part of the Punjab. They had wrested Africa from the Byzantines and the Berbers, Spain from the Visigoths. In the West they threatened France, in the East Constantinople. Their fleets, built in Alexandria or the Syrian ports, rode the waters of the Mediterranean, pillaged the Greek islands and challenged the naval power of the Byzantine Empire. Their success had been won so easily, the Persians and Berbers of the Atlas Mountains alone offering a serious resistance, that at the beginning of the eighth century it must have seemed an open question whether any final obstacle could be opposed to their victorious course. The Mediterranean had ceased to be a Roman lake. From one end of Europe to the other, the Christian states found themselves confronted with the challenge of a new Oriental civilization founded on a new Oriental faith.” (H. A. L. Fisher, “A History of Europe”, pp. 137/8.)
    How did that stupendous miracle happen? That has been one of the baffling questions for historians. To-day the educated world has rejected the vulgar theory that the rise of Islam was a triumph of fanaticism over sober and tolerant peoples. The phenomenal success of Islam was primarily due to its revolutionary significance and its ability to lead the masses out of the hopeless situation created by the decay of antique civilizations not only of Greece and Rome but of Persia and China-and of India

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Saad, this reply of yours is a copy paste from 3 separate sources. I also am amazed how the Arabs were able to conquer the Persians; of course the Abbassids turned the tables on the Arabs, but without rejecting that pedophile, necrophile, caravan-bandit, mass-murderer, torturer, slave-merchant (among a few of his qualities).You have not answered a single point that I have responded to, but are gloating about the rise of the Caliphate; what does that do for you, as an Indian? As a pseudo-arab, you cannot even reflect on it as your own. Saad, go and spend a few years in Arabia and you will know how terribly the common Arabs treat Indian muslims, and there are millions as you ever so willing to lick Arab feet.
    Please read M.A. Khan’s book Islamic Jihad, he has painstakingly translated documents yet preserved in the London museum right from Mohammad of Ghori onwards till Tipu Sultan.I bet, if you have any sense of fairness you will be astonished with gory details recorded by the gloating chroniclers , on how they brought more power to Islam and enjoyed bringing suffering and pain upon us Indians, who happened to be on the loosing side at that time. You are a typical product of those terrible times, education has not brought you to a frame of mind to understand your roots. The law of nature is very clear, if you do not understand your roots and are not comfortable with it, you will never be able to spread your branches.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Saad

    life is all about today.

    If you talk about past glories and apply the rules of yesterday… I am afraid you will be like Geoffery Boycott playing 20-20

    No group of people are let down by a few leaders. Its is a collective mindset which needs to change. If yo cling on to a fallacy that everything as per the book and new knowledge be damned, well the state of the Muslims would be as it is today world over. Just lagging behind the world except in places where oil is found.

    [Reply]

  • vijay !

    Saad

    You are quiet a bore. Pretty boring.

    How so you assume that all the scientists and philosphers you talked about were actually Muslims.

    Are Vikram sarabhai Homi Bhaba, Newton, einsteisn, Abdul Kalam, identified by religion?

    In the same manner many of the architects, scientistts you boast about would just be accidently born with Muslim names.

    Get over this inferiority complex that you hav e 1% Arab sperm in your genes so you are superior. That is all claptrap drilled into you. None of the invading armies into India came with women.

    Show me one painting of those times which show women on a horseback. Infact woman on a burka cannot mount a horse. Recognise your true genes and live today as an Indian

    [Reply]

    rao Reply:

    read about them on internet u will find they were great islamic philospher at the same time.their first knowledge was islamic.

    [Reply]

  • vijay !

    So why dont you go there and serve them

    [Reply]

    rao Reply:

    millions are already there.

    [Reply]

    Deep Bhaduri Reply:

    a few more ar#*-lickers of the Arabs would certainly be tolerated.

    [Reply]

  • vijay !

    @ Parvez

    Beautifully stated man!!

    I am taking this quote from your writing for posting to friends

    ——–”Why do we see our leaders rush to defend this anti-women Muslim personal law? Is it love for Islam?
    NO!
    it is a broom for suppressing women by giving men an unequal right in marriages.
    In case all these leaders loved islam so much, they would have fought for implementation of the Sharia as much as they do for this Muslim personal law. Why don’t we see the Muslim leaders begging that all Muslim criminals in India should get their hands chopped ?
    If Sharia law is no longer required today neither is this Muslim personal law which discrimantes against women. “

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    vijay women is burnt alive only in india.muslim personal is balanced not descriminatory.that is why 65% of new coverts in europe are women.hindus never treated their women equally or even kindly.as per geeta they are between shudra and chandal whose murder carry no punishment.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    LEARNING FROM HINDUS AND CHRISTIANS:– child marriages

    There is no harm in us Muslims in learning from people who have done better than us. In the case of child marriage Muslims have a lot a lot a lot to learn as they have to do in the field of women’s rights.

    Some days back an idiotic, foolish and downright court judgement sanctifying child marriages of Muslim girls at the age of 14. As expected all TV Musims– Kamal Farooqi, Sadia Dehlvi and the gang rushed to support this judgement citing Sharia, some chapter in Hadith and the foolish notion that Muslim girls will get “spoilt” in case they are not married early.

    All the Congress, SP. Left and national leaders remained quiet lest they lose votes by offending Muslim sentiments. Just showed their hollowness the fact that they are no well wishers of Muslims.

    Only Kalbe Sadiq spoke up against it.

    NOW SEE THE CONTRAST.

    The Khap Panchayat in Haryana asked for child marriages to prevent girls from rape. Chautala, another idiot like Farooqi supported it.

    BUT MOST INDIANS, HINDUS AND CHRISTIANS AND ALL POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE COME OUT AGAINST IT.

    Nobody is talking that Hindu sentiments will be hurt.

    Wrong is wrong. Whether for Muslim, Hindu or christian.

    WHY CAN’T WE LEARN FROM THEM INSTEAD OF CONJURING UP FAKE VICTIMHOOD STORIES AND DRUMBEATING THE GLORY OF 9TH OR 12 TH CENTURY?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez puttar khush keeta. One of yr best posts. Well written. Cannot believe however that Sadia Dehlavi said that. Really ???

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pervez,

    A great post . FYI, Rao/Saad is our old friend Engrich/ Tajender/ Ramavtar.

    [Reply]

  • syed ali

    suppose if her father die when she is 14.marriage will be best option.why u have no heart for millioms of indian girls of 14 rotting in various brothels of india.will the marriage not be best option for her.india 14 years girls are raped daily.usually those muslim girls who have proper house girls get marry at 23plus.same as hindu house.
    vijay awnser i am blme u or anybody.90%of child marriages take place in villages mostly by hindus.

    [Reply]

    vijay ! Reply:

    This is the rot taught to you at the madrassa. A country and state can only move thru laws.

    Hindus have tried to get in a just law that girls get equal rights… though in pracitce a lot has to be done. Anybody who opposes these laws is criticised and demolished by Hindus.

    Unfortunately for Muslims, the opposite is true. The leaders only talk about laws which imprison women and anybody who opposes them is attacked violently. You are just a small pawn in this game … a foot soldier who does not know that the real puppeteer is Hafeez Saeed.

    [Reply]

  • rex

    we are muslims we are for one wife 4 in special cases. u hindus are one wife and hundreds illegemate relations.

    [Reply]

  • rex minor

    running away is better as truh will prevail if argument goes.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Pavez…..what would have been your feelings had the tricycles and crutches been stolen by some one who was not a Muslim.
    Would you have said, thank God it was not stolen by a Muslim??

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Parvez

    No one can control someone else, but everyone can control themselves.

    What communal twaddle Salman does speaks about him, not his religion. Islam did not teach him to be a thief or a liar.

    However, how we react to his deeds, and what language we use is all within our own control.

    [Reply]

  • vijay !

    ————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ WHY CHANGING THE EVIL PERSONAL LAW IS IMPORTANT ~~
    ————————————————————————————————-

    Some time back on this blog I asserted that much of the violence in Muslim societies can be tracked to the anti HUmanity personal law which gives a man four times more rights than a woman

    Syed and some people like rex justified this by saying that the law helps in rescuing prostitutes !!

    Well here is a true story of an evil jehadi who killed innocent and enjoyed life using this anti Humanity, anti woman personal law.

    —————— From NDTV——————

    Washington: The man with the wire-rim glasses and bushy beard, speaking calmly in American-accented English, is familiar from dozens of Web videos urging violent jihad against the United States.

    But in one astonishing clip, recorded more than a year before the man, Anwar al-Awlaki, was killed by a C.I.A. drone strike in Yemen, the American-born cleric had a very different mission: to propose marriage to a third wife.

    “This message is specifically for Sister Aminah,” Mr. Awlaki says in the video to his future bride, a comely 32-year-old blonde from Croatia who he hoped would join him in his fugitive existence. The woman had expressed fervent admiration for Mr. Awlaki on his Facebook page and later made clear in her own video reply that she shared his radical views, saying, “I am ready for dangerous things.”

    Neither Mr. Awlaki nor his prospective wife knew it, but their match was being managed by a Danish double agent as part of an attempt to help the Danish intelligence service and the C.I.A. find the cleric’s hiding place in Yemen. The attempt failed, but the undercover agent, Morten Storm, 36, a former motorcycle gang member who had converted to Islam, continued to communicate with Mr. Awlaki. When Mr. Awlaki was killed in a drone strike on September 30, 2011, Mr. Storm was certain his efforts had been instrumental in it.

    But eventually Mr. Storm’s resentment at not getting what he regarded as sufficient credit boiled over. He phoned Jyllands-Posten, the second-largest newspaper in Denmark, and told the bewildered receptionist that he had helped track down one of the world’s most wanted terrorist leaders. The Danish newspaper spent 120 hours interviewing Mr. Storm and verifying his account.

    Among the evidence that the burly, red-haired Mr. Storm produced to confirm his wild tale, in addition to the video of Mr. Awlaki and e-mail exchanges with him, were postcards from intelligence agents, an audiotape of a C.I.A agent he knew as Michael and a photograph of $250,000 in $100 bills – money he says the C.I.A. paid him for his role as marriage broker.

    As part of that plan, the suitcase carried to Yemen by the bride, identified only as Aminah in her video messages to Mr. Awlaki, was secretly fitted with a tracking device that the C.I.A. hoped would reveal the cleric’s location, Mr. Storm told the Danish reporters. But a wary associate of Mr. Awlaki’s had her discard the suitcase when she arrived in Sana, Yemen’s capital. She traveled on to meet and marry Mr. Awlaki, but the C.I.A. plan was thwarted.

    Mr. Storm’s tale shows the lengths to which American intelligence officials went to hunt down Mr. Awlaki, a leader of Al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen who some counterterrorism officials believed posed a greater threat to the United States than Osama bin Laden did. Their method was a variation on the traditional so-called honey trap, in which spy services use the lure of sex to ensnare male targets. Mr. Awlaki had been arrested during his years as an imam in the United States for hiring prostitutes; his two Arab wives lived apart from him in 2010, and he had asked Mr. Storm to find him a European woman willing to stay with him in hiding.

    His eloquent calls for violence, scattered across the Web, helped radicalize dozens of young, English-speaking Muslims. He was added to the Obama administration’s “kill list” after intelligence officials concluded that he had helped plan the failed bombing of a Detroit-bound airliner on Dec. 25, 2009.

    [Reply]

  • Roy Stone

    India has a million social problems it keeps dodging and not confronting, do they actually think anyone gives a ****??? Idk about you, Ive been to both countries and Indian isnt even 1/10 of china when it comes to a functional society(yes women’s status and living standards part of it)

    [Reply]

  • Pulkit Chaturvedi

    wonderful article.. definitely these are some of the top journalists of India..

    [Reply]