Agitate but also legislate



Allegations, insinuations and innuendos will rain cats and dogs in Parliament’s Monsoon Session beginning next month. As one with an implicit faith in parliamentary democracy, I’m a tad worried. For I believe that instead of painting each other black, politicians and political parties represented in the two Houses must come across as acting against graft and for transparency in governance.

That’s what people expect of them. And that’s what they must do—agitate but legislate!

The heat’s going to scald the ruling combination more, what with a plethora of scams ranging from the 2G (in which A Raja has since sought to directly drag the PM and P Chidambaram) to the CWG that are at various stages of trial and investigation. The latest terror attack in Mumbai has only added to the UPA’s predicament the Opposition is bound to exploit.

The treasury benches are almost certain to rebut the principal Opposition, the BJP by raising chief minister Yeddyurappa’s reported indictment by Lokayukta Santosh Hegde in the Karnataka mining scam. This game of pot calling the kettle black could result in an impasse that might be difficult to break.

The parties at war will do well to accept a truce and cooperate in legislation making after ritualistic fireworks. Their collective image will take a hard knock if they spend time fighting without work. The whole country is awaiting political consensus on a slew of legislations—including those for setting up the Lok Pal and putting in place the food security act and a law governing land acquisition and compensation.

A failure on the politico’s part will compound the public cynicism rooted in progressive loss of faith in the system. It’ll at once restrict the space that constitutionally belongs to the executive and the legislature, affording greater room for interventions by the judiciary and the civil society.

Such interventions are good at times. But they also on occasions are double edged swords capable of cutting either way. Shape up or be shipped out. That’s the writing on the wall for the parliamentarians generally and the government particularly.

It’s a no-brainer that the responsibility for bringing legislative business before Parliament is that of the ruling dispensation. But it cannot accomplish passage of new laws without the Opposition lending a shoulder to the wheel. The two must rise to the occasion. The government must reach out to the Opposition and the latter must reciprocate. Easier said than done? Looks like but certainly worth a try.

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  • .S Singh

    May be it is good — let us emforce what we have rather tha ew stuff

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    OF GENGHIS KHAN AND CHINESE WARS”””””””””””’
    In the 12th century, Genghis Khan’s grandfather Kabul Khan went to the great Chinese emperor Holoma to propose peace. There was much feasting and drinking of airag. Happy as tipsy Larry Kabul then reached forward and playfully tweaked the Chinese emperor’s beard
    There was stunned silence. The well meaning gesture backfired, the Chinese were outraged. Hospitality demanded that Kabul was allowed to leave the capital safe but Holoma sent a party to ambush him near the Mongolia Chinese border
    Kabul escaped but was enraged and thus started a war that lasted a few generations and a few crore lives, with Genghis Khan the Singham of his time arriving in the next century to continue the pillaging

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    why do I tell this story here. Mr Shenoy is the Kabul Khan who always playfully tweaks VINOD SHARMA’S beard. Vinod always gets too enraged and sparks fly
    One hopes this blog will be differrent. I hope VINOD realises Shenoy is only being playful
    Peace brothers, UN is going to monitor the ceasfire.
    For as our beloved Balwinder praaji says- both sides just raise their bp and sugar unnecessarily(hehe)

    Now let the proceedings begin

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr mishra

    I hope Vinod Sharma is not looking for a blog only populated by yesmen, HMV’s and Toadies.

    Then many us may well stop blogging here. The rest who choose to remain can just write..

    “YES…. I AGREE … ” :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    Amen! Shubhamasthu!! Inshah Allah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Dr Mishra
    How can this guy be working in your film in the role of Kabul Khan. My filmin which he is playing Naran Muni is already on the floor. The highlight of my film is somebody pulling his choti….and even dhoti….. :) )

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    so what is the moral of the story.. will our citizems arise

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Singh,

    Moral of the story is: keep Narad Muni away from Doorvasa Muni.
    Let our modern day Doorvas not lose his temper, Do not rub him on the wrong side.
    Naraaaayana, Naraaaaaaaaaaaayana………..

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Prabhat

    Quite predictably P Chidambaram has played the saffron terror card to divert attention from the accusations Raja has heaped on him. Now these are not my words… but that of MSN News.

    The problem out here is P Chidambaram holds the Home Minstry and can use the CBI, CID, RAW, IB and police to implicate anyone. He is indirectly threatening the opposition that in case you put te heat on me… I will sen dht CBI at your doorsteps.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    whenevr there were bomb blasts in Mumbai, the home minister of Inida lost his chair.

    I think this time PC has to put in his papers, before MMS does his.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I would still say PC is the best the UPA can offer. Look at the past– A shivraj Patil, more interested in changing clothes on the day of a bomb blasts and wanting to free Afzal guru.

    Or the future– maybe a Digivinash as the HM.

    But the authority which a government should run on is ov er. This is a capitulating government now.

    And private profit.of individuals seem to be more important than state policy.

    Robert Vadra for example now owns tow major five star hotels along with DLF. He has also purchased vast tracts of land from farmers along with DLF.. I am NOT saying he is corrupt.

    But honestly would this have happened if the UPA was not in pwer?

    [Reply]

    Prashant Saxena Reply:

    Maybe Brother in Law Rahul will agree to do a Bhatta Parsaul with the farmers whose land was acquired by Robertji.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prashant

    no Bhatta Parsaul at Roberji’s farms. Out here only five star hotels, and golf courses will be created…

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    CBI is not under PC.

    [Reply]

  • Dinesh

    Mani Shankar Aiyar Exposes Congress. CBI Exposes Ramdev’s aide Balkrishna with fake College degree. A Raja Exposes PM’s fake Certificate of HONESTY and INTEGRITY issued by Corrupt Congress Politicians, but still misguiding the Country on Telecom Policies and Cover-ups the share of LOOT from Rs 1.76 lakhs scam by CONGRESS & DMK. When would CBI Expose the fake Election Results of PC? Kalmadi too wanted to expose CWG LOOT but was never taken seriously and recorded. Kalmadi and A RAJA must be protected in TIHAR, Medically and Criminally? Is it true Sonia Gandhi received Rs 30,000 crore from the LOOT? Lokayakta Wxposes Yeddy as Mining Mafia. If Hegde’s phone was not taped by Yedurappa to Spy LOKAYUKTA’s report then was it taped by PC/Sibal to Spy JAN LOKPAL info? Come on every Cheaters and Looters of India, TIHAR wel-comes you.

    [Reply]

  • ishwar

    Teacher: “Johnny, can you tell me the name of 3 great kings who have brought happiness and peace into people’s lives?”

    Little Johnny: Drin-king, smo-king, and fu-king.

    ——————————————————————————–
    Why do I say this: India is busy saving the test at Lords and someone worried about Mr. Shenoy?

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ishwar;
    My answer only in literal sense, Ashoka, Akbar, and Raja of Travancore. These are names, almost every Indian adult should know. Your stance on Lord test give me hope that India will continue to dominate world of Cricket.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    In US, there is a system called “district attorney” system..They go after senators, mayors, governors, bankers etc based on certain evidence.. These are cases that generally cannot be prosecuted by the county or state prosecutors because of the inadequacy of county/state law.

    These disrtrict attorneys have unlimited budget, and if the situation passes a threshold – “grand jury”..they can just go after. AIG (before the meltdown), former VP Spirrow Agnew, Gov Ryan of illinois, several congressmen, sevral top bureaucrats etc were corralled by the district attorney system. In a sense it is similar to the LokPal being discussed in India.

    CBI cannot be an independent authority because it is a government machinery. Especially in India, govt misuses its departments.

    In the absence of a strong authority that can investigate anybody, these become “you said, I said”. Even if Raja says the decision was done with Chidambaram etc knowledge, it does not mean PM and Chidambaram were on the take. Money trail should be followed. DMK has been notoriously corrupt, with all its leaders amassing real estate, TV holdings etc.. It is easy to follow the money trail.

    Chidambaram may be many things; I do not think he is financially corrupt. Same thing with Dr Singh and Sibil Kapil. Power, influence etc may be motivator for these people, but not momney. Money trail for G2, I believe began and ended with DMK guys (and gal).

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy Hegde , you seem to forget , india cannot follow the american system , that will make it nirad choudhari clone.Also Indians as usual are good in narrey bazi, they actually are Jaffa orange(seedless)
    when comes to actually doing anything about the corruption. Just Like the investigating agencies are so incompetent havent been able to solve a single terrorist attack.

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  • Raju Kurien

    A great opportunity to recast the council of miinsters with fearless capable people was misused by Congress, filling with third rate ministers..They will not survive the constant attck – every day new info comes that makes them weak – unless they can show bygones are bygones, they hare solving problems, attacking corruption etc..

    Obviously there is a paucity of strong political leaders. In that case they should draw from ex bureaucrats , army generals etc who have demonstrated getting things done.. The present platform will drive Congress down the tube.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Raju,

    do you remember M.S.Gill?

    He held the position of CEC, the only one such post in the whole of India.
    And then he became a congressman, accepted the crumbs thrown at his plate by the Queen mother and became a minister of state, who are dime a dozen, whom even chaprasis do not respect.
    Finally he was discarded unceremoniously and without notice, that is nobody noticed that he was thrown out.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Raju

    The think tank of the Congress has shifted form MMS, Chidamabaram, Pranab to Rahul., Digvinash and Manish Tewari.

    They all have one aim. To get the intellectually challenged prince onto the hotseat. Even if be– for a onth or two.

    For this they are now willing to sacrificesw whatever latent goodwill the MMS government had.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    ISI plas to ifluece/itimaidate i US – itimade moderate PAkistais, ifluece agaist india etc

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/world/asia/24isi.html

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Binoy

    Interesting piece. Also interesting is the fact that the US had the info but was willing to look the other way as long as Paksitan was its catamite.

    now the Pakistanis have found a new master in China… the USA is pulling out its cards one by one.

    Moral of the story : India has to fight its own battles. But should use the occasion to drive the wedge between US and Pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • Manohar_T

    Vinodji

    Your worry is real.

    Given the track record, IMO, this monsoon session is not going to be any different. The main culprit will be the BJP. It expects the Government to act and behave as per its (BJP) whims and fancies, forgetting the principle cornerstone of the Parliamentary democracy – rule by majority, Perhaps its aim is to paralyse the functioning of the House and then blame the UPA for it – look it does not listen to us and do what we tell them to do

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Manohar-

    BJP by itself cannot block aything unless other opp party members also join..

    The issue is all will support truly progressive agenda that benefit most of the peopel.. Congress is ties to “vote bank plans” all the time; othing for the country

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    Raju

    I used the word main culprit. Being the largest opposition it has succeeded in doing so. It has been all there, one too many occurrences of rushing to the well of the house and disrupting the proceedings, thereby criminally wasting tax payer’s money.

    BTW, the BJP does not seem to realise that it is damaging its credibility by doing so once too often. It seems to have lost the plot. If the Government in power (on account of majority in the house) does not pay heed to the opposition and can get away, for whatever reasons – vote bank plans, you name it, there is nothing the opposition can do, except peacefully protest. but disrupting parliament is downright criminal.

    Who decides and how what is “progressive agenda”? The majority in the house and it happens to be the Government in power and not by slogan shouting opposition members. It is as simple as that.

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    Pankaj

    It is interesting u mentioned about te Maharaja of travancore in connexion with selfless leaders.

    Actually, it is heartening that a soul like Travancore Raja existed not long ago in this country.

    He could have used all the jewels and treasures for his family before independence or the nine years between independence and state formation, or between state formation and total privy purse cut off in 1960s.

    He did not touch it…. The only time the family took something from “padmanabha’s treasure” was in 1931 at the height of global depression. He took it for his “prajas”, and six years after replaced it fully.

    He stayed in a simple palace, noithing like the monsters one sees in erstwhile castles of Rajastan , hyderabad etc.. He built hospitals and colleges.. Halthcare facilities.. focused on women and children long before it was fashionable…

    Sometime s it is heartening to know people liek him also existed and doe xist in a land of Raja, Kanimozhi, Karunanidhui. Maran, kalmadi, Mayawati, Yedurappa, Jagan etc

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shoeb;
    I heard about these sterling qualities of Maharaja of Travancore, recently only, and for good reason, as any hint about such treasure, at all India level would have brought vultures in droves and in hollywood fashion, they would have demolished temple, to get their hands on this treasure. In exchange if few people would have died, that could be immaterial to them. It is for the immense credit of Raja, who had access to treasure and never thought of removing it in day light or in night time. Difficult to believe such high moral character. I have no parralel to this to quote, may be Gandhiji?
    I had known only about Raja Ravi Varma because of his art.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Pankaj

    Raja Ravi Varma was not a raja in the traditional sense. He belonged to a “sub” family, Kilimanoor palace. The “raja” title was a hnorary title given by British.

    However, the famous music creator (of both Carnatic and Hidustani) Swati Thirunal was a King of Travancore, probably before the present king

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Second Fake Ravi, OMG

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    The King of travancore had small palaces in chennai, Delhi, Mumbai, and bangalore. all these were taken over by others; chennai being taken over by one of karunanidhi’s daughters. The king did not go for any legal action.

    Travancore king was the first King in india to allow all Hindus. lowest class included, to enter the kingdom’s temp[les through his “temple entry proclamation decree”.

    There is a history – do not know whether it is accurate or not; but circumstantial evidence points to that – that when early christians came over to Travancore/cochin coast, for along time (or for ever) he wanted only “aryas” and “Namboodiri/Nairs” to convert to christianity based on his belief that only people with education and awareness should opt for religious conversion, and others hsould not be forced.

    Apart from this, various copper plates found in ancestral churches ((such as Theresa pally plate)and mosques) in the region indicate the generosity, acceptance, learning etc of this ancient Kingdom

    [Reply]

  • shan

    There are only THREE items that are important in 3G scam REST ARE BAKWAS
    1. Why the last date of submission was brought forward
    2.Why money was deposited whichever way to Raja/Kanimoji’s company SUN TV and thr role of DB realty and that Balwa geezer who routed 100crores from the kickbacks into SRK’s film RA one.Incidentally SRK was partying in full swing after the news of the recent bombay blast was aired. I have always felt for him UMMAH takes precedence over India.Dont give that c r a p , he married a hindu. That fits neatly into his insallah, marry an infidel and you are off to zannat.
    3. why they simply cannot have an open auction for the spectrum like in UK , rather than corruption friendly “first come first serve” malaki.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Vinod Sharma,
    This is one of your relatively un-biased opinion pieces so far.
    For last few years, political expediency has been the single most important factor for Manmohan/UPA government , when it came to confronting, preventing and investigation corruption.

    Ironically, Mr Manmohan , while claiming personal probity, may have been the prime-miniter who has presided over the most corrupt council of minister since 1947. Evidense shows that.

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    Just read that 1) Man i Sankar Ityer stated at a conf that Narasimha Rao was not a secularist (he let Babri be demolished) that in private convversayion he (rao) had remarked that Idia is a Hindiu nation — the frcker waits 10 years after death — shame… I can see the fall of a man; but this much!

    2) Digvi has come back with his usual “RSS is a bomb factorY…the Mumbai attack of two weeks ago potentially is done by RSS “…

    Forget about what is happening or not in the chamber — it is what is happening outside the chamber that is creating problem…

    Time for fruckkg Hindus and Christians ad Budhists sikhs and willing Muslims to defeat these regressive people!

    [Reply]

  • ramesh

    IS IT WORTH READING?CAN HE WRITE SOMETHING REALLY SERIOUS?

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    @ Everyone;
    Reading news item in HT that FAi funded terror in kashmir, apart from lobbying in US, UK and Brussels.
    All our secularists, civil activists partook his hospitality without shame, without feeling guilty, even at this late stage ( if some body has tendered apologies, I am not aware). Give me any instance, anywhere in world, where this state of affairs is tolerated, without any repercussions. Fail to understand, what is happening there. A bunch of kebab munching, Sarkari damads, behaving like” Untouchables” behind the blind of secularism, flagrantly hurting Indians interests and no body is in a position to say any thing? Feel like India is living in a kafkaesque world. Ruling elites are more interested to show their secular/ liberal colours. More interested in attending International conferences, more interested in pow wow, then serving interests of India. Many of the bloggers here trying their level best to prove their secular credentials pathetically, while ignoring, or keeping silent, about misdeeds of their cohorts. Jawab do.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Pankaj

    Listthese people please

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mr. Singh;
    Rajiv has listed these people in last blog. There should be many more. I am not privy to them, but my statement is in general sense, on the basis of what I am observing since last couple of decades.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Pankaj
    The new element in the HT story is the linkage between Fai’s activities vis a vis Kashmir and the Jain Hawala case of 1990s.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    @ Vinod;
    Hang them high, Sir. Hang that another man Shambhu Sharma too, from the next lamp post.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    I live un US. I have received e-mails from KAC/Gulam Nabi Fai over last many years, with subjects like “Use of rape by India as an instrument of oppression in Kashmir”. He has organized seminars and handed out pamphlets with such outrageous material.
    Many years ago, infuriated by the propogandist trash that ISI agent Fai peddled against India ( like some lieful bigots do here ) I had written him an e-mail. Thats how I was put on their mailing list I assume.

    Now anyone claiming any knowledge of Kashmir ( particularly self-appointed scholars and columnists and candle-walas ) would have known that KAC/Mr Fai is a anti-India shop.
    These guys would not attend a seminar organized by Mr Modi but have no qualms about attending one organized by Fai or a known killer and a brazen ISI-agent like Geelani of Sopore.

    So when these guys say they did not know that Mr Fai ran a Pakistani shop they are being dishonest at best.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    I will have no problem attending any talking shop be it fai, Ghai , rai , Pai or whatever.
    SO long I am true to my conscience , I have not said anything which is a blatant lie .

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Rajiv

    Fire has to be dealt wth fire. Money is pouring into anti-India activities – ISI, may be evangelical christian organizations (these may not be anti-India, but enough to create an environment condcive to conversions), China (I doubt) . They want to influence the mindshare, here and abroad. Indianshave to do the same – at government level and private level.

    My gut is that GOI does not spend any money on opinion mouldng activities in foreign countries like Pakistan/Fia.

    I do not think much private money is spent either. May be these think tanks that are emerging with private backing will start reaching out to foreign think tanks who share similar political views.

    [Reply]

  • Candor

    An example of Indian legislation : Hindus Success Act – A girl is equal to son by birth right but if parents through a will do not inherit their property share, she won’t get it. She is equal to son only if parents do not make any will. What kind of law is this which is not considering any economic criteria ? If any backward mentality parents give birth to several daughters and later on do not want to inherit them and let them at their plight, what will happen to girls lives ? Our parliament pass such type of legislation. If you go by law, there are 90% of laws which are biased, promoting discrimination. The supremacy of such legislation should be ended and there should be another channel who counter their activities. The colossal corruption has shown how majority in the parliament can be misused by individuals to their benefit. Why Congressmen are not voicing despite colossal corruption scams ? Do they want to loyal to their party than country ?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Candor , mate you are talking non sense.A will is one’s personal wish which is totally different from natural inheritance.With the will one can leave one’s property to one’s mistress or distribute as he wishes.Right to one’s property and the right to do whatever one chooses IS A HALLMARK OF LIBERAL DEMOCRACY. You should get rid of your complex, THE TRADITION in English upper class is to make the willl and pass on the MAJOR part of the inheritance to the ELDER SON.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    :D :D ~~ BREAKING NEWS !!! ~~ RAM AVTAR aur TAJENDAR T U R D KI MAALKIN mil gayi~ :D :D

    This Angana Chaterji Shaking her Kangana to ISI money is quite a Mata Hari !! :D :D

    As news trickles out that she would charge $ 50,000 for spewing out anti-India s-hit at ISI sponsored and Fai organised conferences, I am amazed at the Indian journos who could not thru her sh-it and were busy attending the ISI conference and eating free kababs ! :D

    To her I would say

    ISI ke chaar rang…
    Angana kaunsa ang dikh-ao-gi :D

    ISI ke sikke par, Angana
    Chal-ke- ga tera kangana !!! :D

    She has created her own glowing profile on Wikepedia. Everyone should read and discover how the ISI operates in India. Shamefully she also joined the Narmada Bachao Andolan (which I think is not an anti national cause, but only anti-development) and ALL possible anti Indian movements.

    Her writings look ABSOLUTLEY SIMILAR TO THAT OF TAJENDAR T U R D AND RAM AVTAR. MAYBE THOSE TWO NUTS WERE PASSED ON fiction WRITTEN BY HER by the ISI :D :D

    Somehow she is like Arundhati Roy.

    Her own profile which is probably self created and flatteringly glowing,paints her as a cross between Mother Teresa and Chomsky !! I am qouting from Wikepedia

    ” working on issues of Hindu majoritarianism and nationalism, and social and gendered violence in Orissa, India, and on issues of militarization and states of exception, gender and identity, Islamphobia, religionization, and self-determination in Indian-administered Kashmir. Chatterji also works with issues of hyper-nationalism, diaspora, and identity politics …

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    naach na jaane Angana tedi

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    ISI ko dikhi Angana
    TOh boli aan milo sajana :D

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    FAI AND KASHMIR ””””””””””””””””’
    What if Maharaja Karan Singh was Nawab Kamruddin
    Was Kashmir ours then
    In some ways it has been a millstone around our neck esp from 1988
    The only satisfaction is that it is a bigger millstone around Pakistan’s neck- they are sinking with it, and cannot let go

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    ppl have to think imaginatively on Kashmir- no black and white solutions. Too much blood shed down the Chenab.
    article 370- what a glorious no man’s land. After 1971 high who stopped India from tearing up this paper and populating Kashmir with non muslims
    Purely from a military standpoint, Pak had us by the balls from 1988-2005 on Kashmir- we could do sweet f-all while ? 4 lakh hindus were expelled
    Now that we are on a high again and Pak is on an all time low- tear up this article 370
    TIMES CHANGE, LEGISLATION SHOULD CHANGE

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    LET TOURISM AND $ / Rs BECOME THE NEW RELIGION OF THE KASHMIRI MASSES

    Let the uncouth rich fat punjabi lala spend all his vacations in Kashmir and be the engine which drives change
    there used to be a term for it- PUPPIES-PUNJABI YUPPIES

    SORRY BALWINDER PRAAJI, but you know what I mean

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    r Mishra

    Kashmir was a pimple issue till late 1980s ..That is when Hamid Gul and Mrs Bhutto decided to train the returning (afghani) jehadis to attack Kashmir ..suddenly cycle chains and sticks were replaced by Ak47s..Pimple became cancer.

    Eventually these Jehadis would kill Mrs Bhutto and turn against Pakistan itself..

    Indian ineptitude and a lack of political will have hurt us equally. All the stars have lined up now as you said.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Agree with you. enough has been sacrificed on the altar of lofty principles. Now, India should be worldly wise too. Jameen pe rah kar kaam karen, asman main jyada na udain. whole Kashmir belongs to India legitimately. All our river sources are in kashmir and utmost security concerns. It has to remain with India.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Dr Mishra

    With Pakistan at its all time low, I think the Jammu and Kashmir problem will ebb away. Pity there is no government in Delhi strong enough to ram in this histoircal opportunity to gt the results.

    The collapse of Fai, a sophisticated Jehadi, who was capable of influencing opinion in the West as well as with the Indian media and so called Anganas– shaking their angs and Kangans — is a good turning point.

    A sort of signal that the US has more or less jettisoned all support– real and make believ– the separatists thought they had. :D

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    The only thing going for Pakistan is the “kashmir Issue”. Everything else is gone for them.
    If not Fai, they will have somebody else.

    Has Arundhati Roy ever prticpated in Fai meetings?

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    Dont know has to be checked out about Arundhati. her stance is very very similar to Fai.

    Like that of Geelani….

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~ WERE OUR JOURNOS BLIND OR BLINDED BY MONEY ???? :D :D ;D ??

    It is very easy to say Shri Padgoankar, Rajinder Sachar (maybe jhoot-ar is a better name ) Kuldip Nayar and Harider Baweja … and that darling Angana shaking her ang and Kangana for ISI– might not have been aware of the ISI sponsorhip of the Kashmir conferences by Fai.

    But Kamran Shafi writing in today’s Dawn says that most Pakistanis were aware that this was an ISI charade. Sardar Qayoom had written about this, way back in 2006 !!

    SO WERE NAYAR, SACHAR (jhoot-bolkar being a better name) , PADGAONKAR , BAWEJA, AND OUR DEAR ANGANA 9shaking her ang and kangana) plain dumb or hungry for ISI largesse??

    Let us ask ourselves.

    Meanwhile I quote Kamran Shafi on what Sardar Qyaoom wrote about Fai in 2006

    He also wrote: “The links between the Council and certain sponsored Kashmir outfits in London, Toronto and Brussels are too well known for me [to make] a listing here. It is time this charade was brought to an end and the agencies (or more accurately The Agency) masterminding them were to begin to concentrate on the work for which it/they were originally set up. It is quite clear that unless the ‘Invisibles’ get out of the act, we will keep sinking deeper into the morass in which we find ourselves. The damage done, some feel, is already beyond repair, so let The Boys pick up their hats and their gadgets and leave by the nearest exit without saying goodbye.”

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    I presume Sardar Qayoom who calls himself mujahid-e-awwal would be that Fai is eating out of his share of the ISI largesse. Nothing but an internal tussle.

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Even if it is an internal tussle between Sardar Qayoom and Fai for ISI funds, the truth about who sposors Fai had come out way back in 2006. The Indian journos– some of whom claim to be investigative — should have been aware of this.

    Dilip Padgaoankar should for reasons of propriety, resign from the Kasmir panel.

    WHat is your take on the crumbling central government ? With Pranab not trusting Chidambram and Chidambram now acused by Raja… somewhere it seems ot be hurtling towards doomsday. Is it paving the way to hoist Rahul to the top seat BEFORE 2014?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    For Vinod Sharma it may be very embarrassing to answer such direct and pointed questions.
    He may also feel Dilip Padgoankar is being unfairly targetted by sanghis for his secular crusade against Hindu fundamentalism.

    Let me try to reply to your questions.

    Dilip Padgaonkar has seriously compromised his position as the chief interlocutor for Kashmir. Therefore, propriety demands that he should resign forthwith. But all are not made of stuff like Vir Sanghvi. Barkha Dutt too was compromised by Nira Radia, but she successfully brazened it out. Padgaonkar too may stick to his chair, now that Manmohan Singh himself may not last much longer in his.

    There is a serious erosion of collective self confidence among the top echelons of UPA. Witness the total stony silence of the partners particularly after the DMK was compromised. Now the congress is left to fend for itself and the government.

    Very soon, this government will become indistinguishable from the Janata government of 1979.

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I feel sad as an Indian, that as long as anybody is assosciated with a group which has an anti-Indian stance, he tries to cover himself as secular and liberal. This is prostituting two fine qualities of life.

    A secular person to me is one who is comfortable with all faiths and makes sure that he promotes values which lead to better understanding between religions and ideologies, without compromising. Unfortunately if anyone engages with a terrorist and turns a blind eye to the victims of terrorism– he is NOT secular.

    A liberal similar is a fine quality promoting fredom of thought and action for all. A person who upholds the freedom of a militant or a terror group and Forgets about the victims– is NOT liberal at all .

    Padgoankar seems to fail on both counts here.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Ever thought of our own spooks encouraging some journalists who were regulars at Fai’s conferences? In that event will you call them desh drohis :) )

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Well if you are hinting that some of these journos went there as RAW agents spying for India… that is grand news! But their profile hardly suggests they would do so for RAW.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Have they nailed who did the Mumbai attack? I did not see any coverage in US press either-

    S Singh Reply:

    There has bee several arrests, including one Muslim from Nepal (his “permanent” address is in the neighbourhood of the Prime Minister residence) .

    However, no single entity has been identified or accused. Intelligence agency also can be on the take, the way things are going here! Dawood’s millions Vs Singhs rupees!

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    @ Vijay;
    yes, it is possible that some one or two of them might have been sent by RAW. Not Angna. Is there a list where GOI keeps names of elements inimical to Indian interesrts? enter her name there.

  • Binoy Hegde

    Vijay

    Indian journos should have exposed (and should) expose people like Anjana who wear the mantle of expertise (in her case gender sh–, majority violence etc..) to further her profit motives. Where was her PhD from? Is this stupid California institute (for integral studies??) even accredited? A look into finances of that school will show who funds (probably Murdoch?) Was her “Orissa Progrom” finnnced by Church?

    More importantly, did anybody in Indian media take exception to her using the term “progrom” for the Orissa situation where less than 10 people died?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Ha. Looks are always deceptive dear. The more you call them names the better off some of them will be :) )

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    If a journo sposnosred by RAW is possible, why not a blogger. I am willing to go to the next Fai conference as a RAW agent… provided I get an invitation as a blogger …. :D

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Ur not getting the hang of what I am saying. I cannot write more as that will not be proper. So let the issue rest.

  • HPN

    I wish BJP comes to the Monsoon session, raises first the question of proceeding with the Lokpal Bill and its passage as per the wishes of the majority of the people in India. But I know it will not do it and therefore it will only prove that it is not really interested in containing corruption. Again I wish I am proved wrong and the BJP senses the mood of the people. If a strong Lokpal act comes through, it will serve a better purpose than to disrupt the house asking for the resignation of this or that minister or chief minister.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Binoy

    I wish Indian journos took their job more seriously. In case these so called senior journos were attending the conference they could have well checked out the background of others.

    Tomorrow if Dawood Ibrahim or Hafeez Saeed organise conferences against terror attacks and put up a grand facade which says , “South Asia coalition against state terror’ and announce free round trips to Paris– I can bet my last anna that you would get a huge amount of famous names willign to lecture….

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Well, there are always suckers among journalists as there are in other sectors. As someody mentioned it is just a job!

    The credibility of media is the lowest or second lowest in USA. Mainly due to similar issues – but motly related to swaying the news one way — financial corruption has not been brought up.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    DEAR VINOD

    Is Kabul Khan Shenoy allowed to tweak your beard playfully, or will your noak jhoak be like the Mongolian Chinese wars (appropos the first comment on blog )
    If you 2 smoke a peace pipe then there is hope for Indo Pak as well
    Let us see how this monsoon blog goes !

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    I have not stopped laughing, imagining how Kabul Khan might have tweaked the emperor’s beard.

    On my part, there will not be absence of a will to promote congenial atmosphere on this blog.

    Therefore, here are a few lines in coomemoration of ‘friendship’:

    Vinod Sharma cannot ever stand narrow minds
    he, however, doesn’t mind looking at comely behinds

    He has nothing but scorn for people who peddle fake CDs
    and only compassion for cycle-peddling Biharis smoking beedis

    He hates UPA being perpetually on the brink
    he ruminates its fate over a cool frothy drink

    Whether Ravi or Tajender, he strictly goes by the book
    But, for Shenoy, he reserves the sternest look.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    You mentioned that “he doesn’t mind looking at comely behinds…”

    I am going to seriously watch him on TV to see what he is looking at…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    when you see him he will be only smiling sagely. (for the cameras).

    It is when you don’t see him that he would be “guaging” the shapes.
    Unfortunately most of the female experts who share discussions with him on TV are beyond caring for their “behinds” or the “fronts”, because they care only for political fronts and affronts.

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay, Vinod, Shenoy, Dr. Mishra and others;
    Arrival of Ms. Khar has open another window for improvement of ties and if she is as bright as she is comely, youthful too, mere 34 years, possibilities are many.
    As a friend, these two countries can be force multipliers, otherwise, they are wasting their resources. Pakistan should understand that producing any number of ” Bums” will not give them capability of defeating India. Pakistan should not depend too much on China for a support at crunch time. It is obvious that a friendly India with unlimited possibilities of mutually beneficial opportunities has more pull than friendship with China. Once, india also had Hindi-Chini bhai bhai written all over places. Inviting this Abdali for rescue, will give them a vicarious pleasure but Abdali, looted, butchered muslims with equal ferocity. She asks , not to carry burden of history but she should also not forget lessons of history. Changed scenario and language appears to be result of American pressure or genuine change of heart, only time will tell. I wish for the second possibility. As a test, stop recrimination for 10 years, open trade and friendship( visa etc), see the result and then decide.On Indian part, I will suggest, believe, but check as well.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ pankaj

    Dont be fooled by her youth and looks.

    She carries the baggage of Pakistan. her personal views wont change the way LeT and Hafeez saeed and the Pak Army operaties.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Vijy, Pankaj

    I am of the opinion that we should not talk with Pakistan until the lnes of authority in Pakistan are clear.

    Nobody is in charge – not even the provebial army. US intelligence says that there are “multiple” armies, as evidenced by the attack on their naval operations centre.

    Let us stay put, fortify the border, have good information gathering program.. Indulge in talks at our time when things are stable over there.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi,

    I think we are not going to lose anything by talking to the Pakistanis.
    In the talks we can even tell them that if things don’t improve, we may reconsider our stand on talks.
    Only thing we should not lose sight of, ever, is that Pakistan is not interested in talks or walking the talk.
    They are here because if they don’t talk to us, their next instalment of the annual dole from America may be withheld.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay, Shenoy, Gopi.
    what I am trying to say is for the people who are still sane in pakistan. I am trying to engage them and half insane people, who are even now, not totally lost to insanity. As is GOP’s policy to bombard half truths and lies all the time, there should be a strong publicity of positivities of GOI, not only GOI but civil society of India’s postive side( I am fumbling for right words, even civil society in India is suspect of perfidy,at least part of it). someday, some people will realize the futility of warmongering and get more concerned about their coming generations.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    you are wishing for miracles to happen.
    What you have drawn as a picture for the future relations between the two countries is a mini-Utopia.

    This young FM of Pakistan is going to be nothing but a distraction for analysts like our friend, Shri Vinod Sharma. Pakistan has gone too far down the road of hatred for India to now withdraw and think of improving relations.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Comming back to 2G spectrum fiasco. Now Raja, HM, Kapil Sibal and others are claiming
    that selling of equity is not a crime. I would like to understand where is the problem.
    Guys correct me if I am wrong.

    Company A buys spectrum at a X price from the government. Immideately after acquaring
    the spectrum licence this company sells part of its equity to company B at Y price.
    Now question is what is the differnce between price X and price Y. If it is huge than it is very
    clear that company A is just a front for company B .

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Comming back to 2G spectrum fiasco. Now Raja, HM, Kapil Sibal and others are claiming
    that selling of equity is not a crime. I would like to understand where is the problem.
    Guys correct me if I am wrong.

    Company A buys spectrum at a X price from the government. Immideately after acquaring
    the spectrum licence this company sells part of its equity to company B at Y price.
    Now question is what is the differnce between price X and price Y. If it is huge than it is very
    clear that company A is just a front for company B .

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Mohan

    Quite possible that the price difference is shared between the Minsiter and the owners of company A

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Vijay,

    Yes, definately the money was shared. But now Raja is trying to wriggle out of the
    problem by claiming that sale of equity is not a crime .

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    There are two aspects – 1) The rules were changed on the last day and info was provided about th new rules to only few cronies and more importantly 2) as a result of this ministers and bureaucrats and politicians got kickbacks to the tune of all these gigantic amounts you read in the media – $700MM to Karunanidhi’s wife Dayalu Ammal, untold sums to Kanimozhi and her media front, untld sums to telecom dept secretaries, money given to Raja’s brother etc etc.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    You are comparing an apple with an Orange -

    You said :

    X : Spectrum Price

    Y : Share Price

    How can you have differential pricing between X and Y ?

    And ofcourse our friend Vijay had an answer who shared the differential price !

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    No I dont think I am comparing apple and oranges. Company A bought spectrum
    at such a low prirce from the governemnt that the value of its equity rose manifold.
    Thus by selling the equity to company B they made HUGE profit .

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    You are looking for scams at the wrong place. Raja would love to you to be his opponent lawyer.

    As Shan mentioned, the real scam happened while shifting the date and having very narrow window for submission of the documents. Raja could have got away with this scam but for this crude act.

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    Yes, I know the bringing forward the date of submiting the papers was part of the scam.
    The spectrum was being sold at such a cheap price that Raja did not wanted any other
    company to apply other than to whom he wanted to give.
    Scam is not only shifting of the date but the price of the spectrum.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    Legally, we can not really put raja on mat on pricing. He will drag NDA in.

    Pricing was same for everybody.

    The real “partiality” occured when he informed his friends to be ready with the draft ( more than 1000 cr ), shift the submission window and did not allow reaction time to others.

    For this, he surely made money.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    you said, “@ Mohan

    Legally, we can not really put raja on mat on pricing. He will drag NDA in.”

    Well, nothing much can be done now, because he is already on the mat and he has already dragged the NDA in the ring. Now the court/s will look for the small grain of truth, on the basis of which the guilty will be charged.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Raja is in jail. We are yet to see the quantum of punishment.

    This quantum will depend on the stances parties take. If we talk about share prices, sale of equities etc, then he will get away with very less quantum of punishment. infact, raja’s lawyer could deliberately allow others to focus on this point like Mohan did, so that Raja can actually get away with a lighter punishment.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    being a Delhite… and so innocent !! Marvellous.

    Now if you suggest that Raja did not want money
    I think that idea is a bit balooney…. :D

    Or maybe Raja took the cash
    niether he or Kani had any aish

    They just gave the notes to a kabadi

    With this story…
    Are you by any chance trying to replace Manish Tewari :D :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    I love your proactiveness in the debate. But surprisingly, you take wrong tracks while arguing.

    Read my response. I did not suggest that Raja did not make money.

    I talked about Mohan’s illogical deduction of “differential pricing” between Price of Spectrum and the Share price.

    You said the difference is shared by people !

    Either keep the arguments generic or be clear on the specifics ! You can not have generic deductions out of Specific Technical inputs.

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    The genuine companies who wanted to buy this spectrum at much higher price
    were not allowed to bid by shifting the date forward.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    As far I remember, it was First-come-First-Served basis. [ I will research more late night ]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Prabhat

    It would have taken a huge three paras to link the share price to the holding of the spectrum. I think Raja’s lawyer would have loved this. We have seen the trail of the kickbacks.

    However let me give you an example which will ring home to every Delhite.

    Justice Sbharwal’s ( Former CJ supreme court) son owned a company with a share capital of one lakh.

    One fine day, a builder called BPTP gives this company a loan of 28 crores. BPTP being a mall developer and also a company which is rumourd to have links with Rahul, Vadra and Hooda’s son.

    From the next day Justice Sabharwal suddenly ordered demolition of Delhi….

    On the face of it everything is legal. And if you examine it… all is unwell !!

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    “Co-relation” and ” Differential Pricing” are 2 different things.

    Please do not confuse.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    I am no experrt at law, but I have seen a few company takeovers from close. Since these companies were not public, it is all about negotiations between the owners and the CA then creates the papers on the share price.

    For example if Unitech were to have said, “look I want 1500 crores profit…” and the buyer agreed, then the CA will jus tprepare the papers in such a manner as to prove the value of the equity is such.

    I have a feelong, besides tthe cheque amounts, a lot of cash might have been used also

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Unitech asking for ” good valuation” is no crime.

    Somebody managed to lay fibre optics cable in Delhi for 100 crores after taking permission from the utility agencies. Six months down the line they asked for 175 crores. They tried to cover the cost and giving the second company the advantage of “time to market”. So was the premium.

    As I said more you take this line of argument, weaker the case will be against Raja.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    Maybe you are right on this. Another way to look at it would be

    a) A licence given to a cohoert

    b) He sells it for 1600 croes profit in a mtter of days.

    c) Radia tapes add as evidence;

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    You are a technocrat. The subject you are dealing with in professional life needs absolutely clear and specific inputs and line of thinking. I am surprised that you tend to get attracted to rhetorics like a moth to fire !

    Inspite of all judicial outreach, the court finally needs to deal with the case as per the law.

    I do not think killing somebody and the intention to kill are not same as per IPC.

    Radia Tape is good for the gossip and sensational headlines, but is meaningless in the court.

    He sells “it” – the license ????

    Where did you get this news?

    For you, the shares in the company and the telecom License are same ? The CA’s would commit suicide !

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    I am not totally blank in comapny takeovers. I meant changes the directors of the company by selling the shares.

    Am not a CA. but once a while when an existing facotry is sold to be rebuilt, I see how the CA’s do the job of changing directors and transferring shares and approaching the registrar.

    And well I am also a director in a small comapny ( a start up) which my partners intend to re-sell in case we perfect the technology we are working on…

    So no expert. But definately not blank in company matters also… :D

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    Dont underestimate the value of the Radia tapes. Its another matter that the government won’t use them

    a) They tell the whole story of the 2 G scam, brick by brick

    b) The actors are exposed. The accounts have to be told and the story peiced together with evidence.

    c) Tapes even audio are taken as judicial evidence.

    d) The presence of the tapes itself prejudices the thinking of hte judge in a certain direction

    In case of water gate so much was evidence of similar nature. The evidence we present to Pakistan on 26/11 is all about audio tapes. So why have this doubt that the Radia tapes are useless. WIthout those tapes, Raja and Karuna would have just shouted rape rape… we are being needlessly maligned.

    Do you think all these CEO’s and Kani would have been in Tihar in case they were no tapes??

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Please check the possible context that the Radia tapes can be used in the court.

    What does it really tell us about 2G and 1,50,000 lakh crores scam (legally ) !

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    If it was first come first basis then why fix the date of submiting the papers.
    Just give it to the first company which applies ?

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    A date was fixed for submitting the bids. Suddenly Raja shifted the date forward
    of submitting the bids along with a draft of a huge amount and the window
    was so narrow that genuine companies just could not do that. Many of them
    didnt even knew that the date has been brought forward as it was not announced
    on TV or published in papers. It was only done on the website. This allowed Raja
    to sell this spectrum at a very cheap price to his chosen comapnies.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Mohan, Prabhat, Vijay Lumar,

    what Mohan said is only partially true.

    Raja had employed ‘bouncers’ to prevent any genuine, but unintended gate-crashers outside the venue of the deal, because all those parties who were the ’selected’ were already inside the room with their demand drafts for Rs.1500 crores each!

    This is Raja’s idea of first-come-first-served.

    Mohan R Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Thanks. I was trying to recollect the amount of draft which was suppose to be
    submitted along with the bid.

  • Mohan R
  • vijay kumar

    @ Vinod Sharma

    I think you are rihgt on this one. That the more we call these journos as ISI voices in India, the more they will enjoy it. And wear it as a badge of honour of being attacked by Hindu right wingers ! :D

    Chit bbhi mera… pat bhi mera. So become an ISI mouthpiece and claim that you are being harassed by communal rightwingers… :D

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    The article in India Today clearly mentioned that our honourable PM knew about 2G problem
    but he chose to ignore it .

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Shoeb/Pankaj

    NYT article on Travancore treasure.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/09/world/asia/09temple.html

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Binoy;
    it was a good article, though nothing new in it. But, having been published in NYT, its reach to world is assured. World should get aware that in India, still graceful people, like Martanda Varma, resides. It is not country of Raja of DMK, Kalmadi of CWG and Hassan Ali of 8 Billion fame alone.
    By the way, Ex.cop and activisit, Sundar Rajan has died a natural death in his home, near temple, had premonition of his death, refused any help and died peacefully. Dread to hear the news in future, about possible pileferage of this treasure.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Friends,

    In this blog, Vinodji has sketched the likely scenario in the Monsoon session of the parliament.

    He has mentioned the issues sure to be debated, like 2G and CWG, mining scams etc.

    He has also referred to judicial interventions, though sideways.

    BUT, TWO IMPRTANT ISSUES HAVE NOT BEEN MENTIONED, EVEN IN PASSING.

    ONE IS THE SWISS BANK ACCOUNTS. (BABA RAMDEV ALMOST SACRIFICED HIS LIFE WHILE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE POLICE IN A ‘STHREE-VESH’)

    THE OTHER IS ‘COMMUNAL VIOLENCE BILL, SONIA GANDHI’S GIFT TO THE NATION.

    WERE THE OMISSIONS DELIBERATE?

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    When and how did Ramdev managed to get into this ‘STHREE-VESH’ ?

    Who stripped for Ramdev and gave her clothes to Ramdev ?

    And whoever stripped, how did that woman manage to get away nude/seminude from that melee ?

    I saw the video. When the police took action, Ramdev was on the stage in his “MARD VESH”.

    While his disciples were braving tear gas, Ramdev was busy in changing his clothes under the stage ?

    Bah ramdev !

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Prabhat

    You may be surprised to know that Ramdev still commands a huge following. Well, you may not hold him in much esteem, but the crores who have benefited form his yoga swear by him.

    So dont be surprised if he manages to be the last straw which breaks the COngress back!

    he may have stumbled in politics by aiming too high. But then, he was the guy who got the focus on black money…in the first place.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    This is not the end of Ramdev saga.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Prabhat/Vijay-

    Ramdev is fighting for a good cause – his follwoers will follow him irrespective of whether he cleanses the political system or not. It is like fighting about whether Bhagiratha brought mother Ganga to the lands of Bharath Varsha thru penace or whether lord Shiva brought it or whatever — It is immaterial. The good is that it made the land fertile, it provided “meditation grounds”, many got blissetc..

    Spending time on whether Ramdev dressed like a woman and escaped etc is not worth it. That his asst has a afke college degree is non-sense (Isnt it ridiculous that we deploy our CBI to explore that— when zillions are being stolen, when jehadis are killing, when Kerala Muslims are going to Kashmir and pakistan ferventing jehadism –that CBI will look into the collegedegree of a person who has not done any national harm is simply unbelievable)

    “vinasha kale vipareetha budhi” – that Yedurappa will not resign, that UPA pretend like everything is going well, that Raja and Chidambaram will get into procedural and process issue, that in the 10th anniversary of Kargill, no jawan got a flat for the flats “they” built for the jawans, that a Manesh who fought against the 11/26 terrorists cannot get treatment while Dayanidhi Maran and Karunannidhi are swimming in the country’s billions ,a nd a “saintly” Manmohan Singh would not have the courage to cut off DMK….

    Our country is in deep peril. On one side, our young (and old) entrepreneurs are creating huge growth; on the other side this huge growth is creating huge opportunities for some to steal big, as somebody above remarked, it has even ebcome fashionable to side with Paakistan, to side with it views on Kashmir as a secular badge of honour to “fight the majority fascism”..

    People like Ramdev and Anna are reflecting what the majority of people feel. Politicians, bureaucrats, journalists, and other trusted people just do not represent teh Indian anymore

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Well said !! Somewhere governance has gone for a toss. The Congress at this point only seems to be hanging on and getting Rahul onto the chair.

    Why does not the NDA sieze this moment to make a strong comeback?

    Maybe they should get in naidu or someother face or at least project a comparitively proven cmapigner like jailtey as thier face of the future PM.

    Franlly I had high hopes from Chidambaram. But he is being sidelines as Digivinash sees himself as a replacement in a future dispensation.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Vijay

    Chidambaram is a capable and honourable man. So also Dr Singh. So also many on all sides of political spectrum.

    Unless we change the Indian administrative system, and make it like I dont know (may be decentarlized like US), changing leaders and mnistries will not do any good.

    I am of the firm belief that it is the bureaucracy that is the hotbed of corruption, they are the ones who do not want licens eraj to be dismantled, they are the ones who want rules and rules over rules so they can go on stealing.

    Personally speaking I would not mind Kapil as the PM – at least something will get done, he wil be decisive.. he may have “thuggish” elements in him; but he is not in it for the money. He can put Digvij in his place. Chidambaram is mild mannered; confrontation is not his style. Let him be in charge of solving poblems.

    We have to think outside the box…. I always wondered about NDA — why cannot they leverage this golden chance – a s somebody here remarked the country is given to them on a platter, giftwrapped by UPA

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ gopi

    If you want to draw parallel, then I will quote one incident that happened long time back.

    Harshad Mehta was doing fine in the share market. he had a huge sea facing bungalow. Enjoying life. He became a real sensation in the share market. People started luring him to invest in their companies.

    Suddenly, a PR company ( i happen to know them ) thought it was good idea to change the profile of Harshad and take him to the next level. For the temptation of a small billing, they really ruined their client. They got a cover story published in India Today with Harshad standing next to his red imported car.

    That’s the point he became eye sore. ( He got into web of cases that finally killed him. )
    [ I am dealing with just a portion of Harshad's life for my argument here. ]

    Almost similar things happening in case of Ramdev.

    He was doing fine with his Yoga and TV. He misjudged his yoga following to be his captive political audience. He stepped out of the line. He developed a political ambition. He picked up an agenda that could get him mileage. He picked up an agenda ( bringing black money stashed abroad ) that would take years to achieve and even might also fail. But by then he would have become a political figure. great political strategy, I must say. it was a very romantic idea for our youngsters. So people fell for it. Encouraged by some support, Ramdev started taking on the political class with his suggestions on economics, law, legislation etc.

    What mistake did he do ?

    If you have read Robert Green’s “The 48 laws of Power”, then you would know that Ramdev made a cardinal mistake. He DID NOT “ASSUME FORMLESSNESS”. By taking a shape, having a visible plan, he opened himself to attack. Now he would always be under scrutiny. Now, the political class will not fight openly with him. Slowly, the law and Govt. agency will keep digging his past activities and he will be entangled for a long time. His associate is already been cornered. The noose is tightening.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    The Congress may be also losing at leastt 5 % of its vote share by hounding Ramdev, who in public’s eye was fighting for a good cause.

    And 5% can make Hunpty Dumpty tumble…

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Vijay

    Ramdev, with his great reality show of 7/9 days of fasting, has already lost credibility on his brand of yoga.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Prabhat

    Obviously the man went beyond his paygrade.Instead of one focus – corruption, or foreign money – he mingled education in local language, “code of conduct” etc.. I do not think he wanted to be a political ledaer; he was expressing concerns rather than desires..

    You seem to justify “noosing” his associates, or himself.. Do you think the states resources are used best for thse — listen, I do not have any issue in checking his books on tax evasion etc, but hopefully we will do it on all, not just people who oppose the govt.

    It is really painful that, Congress, instead of admitting wrongdoings and cleansing and setting the right direction, falling into the trap of prosecuting the opponents. Really paiinful…The tragedy is that, in todays India, any other party, if they are in power, will do the same thing.

    We have lost our way. May be we should have remaiined poor like during the days of Nehru and Mrs Gandhi.

    Everythig ad everybody is a racket – private schools are sprigig up with lakhs ad lakhs of fees (k-12 schools; they collude to close govt schools), doctors sell govt medicine, rich goondas kill a girl who got into med college on merit – so that seat can be given to someone wwho will give 40 lakhs — the list is endless.

    I hope Ramdev and Anna etc motivate the young to create a new India. Mahatmaji could atract idealistic youngsters who set the foundation of a great country. These are times for an all-india awakening just like the freedom movement. Because freedom will not have ay meaning in a society devoid of values.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Gopi

    We have been witness to V P Singh’s great fight against corruption and his great act of carrying the CODE to secret Swiss bank a/c in his pocket..

    We have also been witness to the great “hindutwa awakening ” act by Advani.

    They were all done with political objectives in mind.

    Ramdev started talking about “foreign born” issue of Sonia Gandhi in Anna’s hunger strike event in Delhi. Infact Anna had to beg Ramdev with folded hands on TV not to “politicise” the anti-corruption movement.

    Ramdev has huge poitical ambitions. it has even been confirmed by his close associates in anti-corruption movement. it has slightly been tempered by his recent stupid acts.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    prabhat

    I agree with you oon VP Singh (what a disaster) and Advani (a disaster, but not at the level of Raja Singh)..

    Ramdev, I do not know. In my simplistic mind it looks like a rural unsophisticated guy is getting caught in the “political class” – how dare you; u did not rise thru the party mode.. How else one can take all the criminals, including people who are under trial for murder and assault in these parties, media keep quiet, and jump on a Ramdev? Of course he utters a lot of non-sense; doesnt Digvijay? Why do we have different standards for Digvijay and Ramdev. Or Mani Iyer and Ramdev?

    Will Digvijay win a constituency? Will iyer? For thta matter, will Chidambaram? (I do respect Chidambaram and Antony; although both will not win)…

    It is time we all think beyond parties. I do not think Rahul should be the leader of the country (I dont think Advani either). Mrs Sonia Gandhi should discard Digvijay, Iyer, and all other non-vote getters and comics out; have people with solid reputation in cabinet and in party positions (this is Ramarajya; Rama put his wife through the fire test although he knew she was aok; but citizens thought otherwise)..

    I believe Congress is losing a golden chance by not- coopting these movements, and not coopting these heroes; and instead unleashing stupids like Digvijay as attack dogs.I wonder what voting block they are trying to corner!

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ gopi

    Digvijay was the chief minister. He won many elections.

    He has taken electoral political sanyas for 10 years after he lost the election.

    Digvijay has a clear-cut role cut out. He keeps BJP at arm’s length by matching their rhetorics and shrillness.

    Allow me to point out, before Anna hit the street, Kejriwals, bhushans were all working with NAC, headed by Sonia Gandhi on lokPal bill. The committee was headed by Aruna Roy.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Prabhat

    A strategy to match/exceed opposition party rhetoric will not find fault with me or any reasonable people.

    But is he matching or is he becoming a laughing stock, or more detrimental to congress, is he creating a platform where Congress can be framed as a non-patriotic , “do not care about India” party. What was his purpose in stating that “Hindu groups cannot be ruled out in the Mumbai attack two weeks ago”; he could have said ” we do not know, it may be domestic groups, it can be foreign groups; investigation is going on”.. As far as I know, BJP had not pointed fingers to Muslims when he made that statement.

    He won elections; will he win again? How can he , or anybody else say “Rahul is ready now to be th PM ” as if the crown prince of yesteryears’ princely states of Mysore, Jaipur etc..”coming out of age’ ready to rule the kingdom ? (I should admire his shamelessness..at least he is open about his support; others will support Rahul but badmouth him at his back)

    Do you think cogress leaders are following the same trajectory they followed when they decided to nominate Indira Gandhi as the PM thinkig they can manipulate her; and the internal rivalry made her the acceptable one behind whom they thought they could do their charade) — why wouldn’t a congress WC member suggest some other name

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Perhaps you raised the same point in last blogpost and I had answered

    Reporter : Do you think Hindu extremists are involved in Mumbai Blast ?

    DigVijay : Nothing can not be ruled out….

    So it was Digvijay’s response to a question. Not a media brief.

    Prabhat Reply:

    Please read :

    DigVijay : Nothing can be ruled out….

  • shan

    @Bloggers et al
    Guys i sincerely hope the upcoming talks between india and pakistan bears fruit.BOTH COUNTRIES ARE DEEP IN THE PIT.India spending 10 billion dollar dollar on fighter aircraft only , transport aircraft , submarines , and you name it.
    same with pakistan , can any pakistani proudly say in international venues that he is proud to be a pakistani.
    Despite what some bloggers might like to tell us about kerala being god’s own country , everybody knows the mass exodus to gulf is not a tourist holiday. same with all the southern states , they may be marginally better in terms of indian average , they too are very poor states. in every parameter.
    This was made even more painful after watching a programme called HISTORY OF MATHEMATICS.
    It starts with Piero Della Francesca, a painter in Italy and how he created the illusion of depth in a flat canvas .This apparently has all to do with geometry and the symetry. Next was Descartes in france, apparently a village is named after him , where he was born. Then Fermat , whose last theorem remained unsolved for three hundreed years only solved few years ago.Then THE GOD , Issac Newton , calculus,
    but leibnitz had also discovered and propagated , but germany it appears at that time had as much clout as phillipines now. So he had to bow to Royal society ’s arbitration and accept newton discovered it first but leibnitz independently propagated it(prior to this leibnitz was accused of pligiarism).then it moved to THE PRINCE of mathematics , Gauss of Gottingen. and then the famous Bernoulli of Basel switzerland , who were mathematicians for three generation. Without bernoulli we would not have had aeroplanes.
    Then it moved to Euler , though from basel , saw no hope while the bernoullis are around , moved to St petersburg, and invented the famous equation using pie. Then it moved to the romanian genius originally from hungary janos bolyai , who turned euclid ian geometry on its head and showed sum of three angles in a triangle in a curved surface is not 180 degree , nor the shortest distance between two points in a curve is a straight line.
    Fast forward a news from school of tropical medicine in calcutta. appparently the institution could not be kept open after 5 o clock as the fourth class staff refuse to guarantee the safety of instruments.
    INDIA HAS A LONG WAY TO GO , haryana even more long way to go.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    no body can accuse you of being a modest person.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    Shan,

    Obviously there is poverty in the South. But I suggest you travel through the south and north and east and west and find for yourself. The poverty in the North is the Somalian type. The poverty in the south is that they have only one pair of chappels (and in kerala, may be they have only three pair) People going out for jobs is nothing new; you yourself went ouside India.

    As fr as Mathematics in India is considered, there is a little known, but now widely reserached subject/time period in India’s history. Sri Madhava of Sangamagrama who lived in 14th century , near the present day Cochin was a pioneering mathematician who “invented” the power series and forme dthe foundations of calculus long before Fermat, Euler, and Newton. Madhava’s school (now referenced as Kerala School of Astronomy and Mathematics; not a school per s now, but just to indicate the thought process, etc) produced other geniuses after him, such as Somayaji and Jyeshtadeva .

    While there is no challenging of Newton’s and Euler’s work as original works, world mathematicians have a discoursegoing on whether Madhava’s and Somayaji’s theories formed the foundation for Fermat’s work.. There is also reserach/investigation going on as to how this illustrious teachr/student/school program suddenly ended in mid 1600; whether the western invaders (Dutch) deliberately clipped it after transporting the stuff to the West etc.

    Many western mathematicians (including from Princeton and Notre Dame) and historians are now combing the records to arrive at a definitive position.

    Obviousoy, under the old and present “Mc Cauley” system of educaion, we are taught not to learn anything about our country.

    You can explore more about Madhava of Sangamagrama, Somayaji, kerala School of Astronomy and Mathematics etc and the surrounding theories, speculations on the abrupt end etc .. There is enough scholarly papers.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Lmirza, I am fully aware of the Madhava school , just as I am aware of more recent genius RAMANUJAN. Then so were ARAB MATHEMATIANS , who invented ALGEBRA, which was originally known as AL-JIBRA. But clinging on to history WHICH MUSLIM WORLD does , will lead to where the muslim world is heading to.To look at things rationally and objectively will only propell you forward, the starting point of which is to admit that there IS MASSIVE CATCHING UP TO DO.
    And this may be the very reason WHY INDIAN STILL NEEDS TO IMPORT BILLIONS OF DOLLAR OF ARMS IMPORT , whereas RUSSIA manges to flood the world with arms.There is massive contribution of modern maths in it.I remember a programme on japan seen in TV. Just after WW2 , MR TOYODA(of TOYOTA) called his chief engineer for a talk. He said ” we need to catch up with the west in TWO yrs).His chief engineer told the interviewer “I thought , is he joking , then I thought well at least we will have some work to do”. This is the engineer who invented”Just in time” INVENTORY MANAGEMNT and Kanban .The rest as they say is history.
    As for me working in uk , is the same like millions of BRAIN DRAIN india still allows every year
    because the working enviornment in India is such , any one with aspiration will be stifled.
    Imagine a mechanical engineer with interest in car engine design , WHAT RECEPTION HE WILL GET IN CK BIRLA’S HINDUSTAN MOTORS.
    Same with electronic engineers , what will a SUGAR MILL owner(DHOOT) understand or will have interest in devoloping LED TV’s.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shan-

    India will flood like you said. It is only 15 years since the shackles of innovation and entreprneurship released. First 35 years of independence was wsted in state experiments.

  • pankaj#1

    Arre Pakistaniyon;
    ye kis beauty queen ko bhej diya? seedhe Chankya ya Machiavelli se seekha hai kya? Even, a seasoned man like me, feeling uneasy.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    This is clearly hitting below the belt. You were expected to send some body as unimpressive, khurrat ( is our krishnan khurrat?, I hope many person will understand what is khurrat). There is a nasal twang, but not written. I do not know, how Krishnan will fare. He is famous or infamous for his weakness for fair sex.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    First surgery and modesty do not go together, Next it is not krishnan , it is KRISHNA, who read from a different script while addressing general assembly in UN , it was supposed to be about palestine , he started about peru or something.
    Also this geezer Naik the airforce chief has shot from the hip. He starts talking about nuclear retaliation , before any talk could start.
    India should say ,it is not pakistan , so it is safe to ignore the imminent retiree air force chief.
    These talks should really be fruitful , you need giants when you have is pygmies.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan; I have a love and hate relationship with you. You know. I agree with some of your points and disagree with some. as I have said earlier, Galiyan kha ke bhi bemaza na hua. In ideal world, I will agree with your thoughts, but you are putting down India all the time, which is struggling to come out of a very horrendous past and in short span of 6 decades, has achieved considerable progress. I am just batting for progress here. I do not support regressive ideas of be it hinduism, christianity or islam or for that matter any religion. Human race is evolving, and people will perish, if they will not evolve. Just read ” The Next 100 years by George Friedman” and I bet, that will send a shiver down your spine. It did mine.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    I heard the attributes of a Surgeon, apart from being immodest, are: Eagle eyes, Lady’s fingers and lion’s heart.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    @ Everyone;
    I know many of my friends and opponents( I am not saying foes) do not like shekar gupta, but man, i find him nearer to my thinking. please go to this article, who so ever is interested, and judge for your self.
    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/national-interest-the-arresting-moment/821127/0

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Pankaj,

    Very good article. I am sure the journalists who attended Fai’s forums have lost
    some of their credibility in public’s eyes.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    what a funny situation here. A person with name Gopi Thomas, supposed to be a Christian is batting and fielding for Indian Nationalist ideas and a person named Prabhat, supposed to be a Hindu, balling against him. Secularism at full play here.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    That’s India for you !

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Pankaj–

    All are Indians.. Let us not bring Christian/Hindu etc.. in discourse. Prabhat is an Indian with a view, I am an Indian with a view; both wanting Indians to be prosperous, happier, contended.

    Antony is the defence Minister; he just happens to b a Christian. Same with George Fernandes years ago. Itwill be sad and dangerous if we ascribe anything other than “Indian” to them

    FYI my family has been christians for almost 2000 years; even beore Adi Sankara.

    This is our country; your country, and all of ours heritage.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Gopi;
    I sense some hurt there. You have seen my previous posts. I have no attachment with being Hindu, Christian, or Muslim. What I tried to highlight, was a happy situation, where, away from the stereotype, all of us are arguing as Indians. I hope, you understand my point.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    No hurt at all… Let us all make this a better place for our children… a true Ramarajya for prajas

  • pankaj#1

    Shan;
    I will admit this, that I am not as conversant as you are with all these philosphies and mathematics. As I was wandering in cyberspace,I came across this blog, where writer has also used many times, mathematics, thought, you might be interested in his thoughts.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20117\27\story_27-7-2011_pg3_2

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    SCIENCE MATHS AND INDIA””””””””
    99% of Indians do not know that Aryabhat had theorised that the earth was round and resolved around the sun- IN 490 AD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Also, although called arabic numerals, they perhaps originated in India Same may go for decimal and use of zero
    There was a lot of exchange of ideas between the hindu cicisation on one side and Arabic and Chinese on the other- with most of the info going from India
    When Genghis Khan plundered the Chinese and the muslims in Bukhara and Samarkand, he came across a lot of Sanskrit journals on philosophy, Budhism and Maths
    THAT TIME THE MUSLIM CIVILISATION WAS VERY OPEN AND RECEPTIVE TO HINDU IDEAS, the library in Samarkand had 150,000 books

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    Pl go few commemts above to read about Madhava of Samgaragama , Somayaji etc 14th-16th cemtury

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Just noticed VINOD’s response to my question above-
    Vinod sharma Reply:
    @Dr Mishra
    How can this guy be working in your film in the role of Kabul Khan. My film in which he is playing Naran Muni is already on the floor. The highlight of my film is somebody pulling his choti….and even dhoti….. )
    ————–
    haha, nice one Vinod.. Mr Shenoy, aap to bjari mehfil mein benaqab ho gaye

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr.Mishra,

    I never wear naqabs.main jo hoon, wohee dikhta hoon.

    As for Vinodji’s film, I feel honoured that he has thought of me as “suitable” for the role of Narad Muni.
    If it materialises, I will work free in his film for the honour he has done to me.

    And, if I perform well, which I am confident of, I may get many roles from other big banners.

    And then I will drive upto HT office in my big Ferrari and take Vinod Sharma to his favourite drinking hole in Gurgaon!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    And then, even the Kabul Khan role too may become a big, international hit fetching an Oscar for me and also for you!!!!

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    article in todays NYTimes about growth iin Indian business, how some industrialists are implementing cross border integration etc

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/world/asia/27tycoon.html

    [Reply]

  • S Singh

    pankaj—

    Looks like there is a big plan in appointing this beautiful woman as their foreign minister…Pakis are going to do the charm game!

    Reminds of “apsaras’ being sent by Gods to seduce tough Rishis ……

    yankees will reinstate the aid ……

    obviously they – pakis- do have a purpose i n appointing her bypassing all other senior leaders

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Singh,

    More than elevating this beautiful girl to the high profile ministry, Pakistanis, to my mind, appear to have devalued/downgraded the ministry to make it look insignificant, as the two countries that matter most to Pakistan, US and India, both give a damn to the Pak Foreign minister.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shenoy

    I agree. However, I believe there is a method in this madness — may be to soften their “terrorist face”…may be to project that teh ountry isnot a taliban basket case….o may be her dad owns half of pakistan..(I understand he is big landowner like Bhutos)

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mr.Singh;
    I am glad that my yesterday’s observation is being repeated by many newspapers and other media, some body also mentioned about beauty and brain.
    Yes, in contrast to the prvious FM of Pakistan with a big face and dour expressions, this is a refreshing, fragrant change. If nothing comes out of this visit and the whole circus is about, to impress USA, even then, this will bring down the surface tension. This is not the face for which 1000 ships will be launched. So far, pakistan was being represented by Salahuddin, Iliyas kashmiri and their ilks,this is your track -2 diplomacy. (in other sense).

  • nirav

    @Vinod,

    So if i understand what is in the blog.
    It means BJP please dont attack congress since we also have yeddy.
    Both of you please have a secret deal which will be brokered by vinod or dileep….
    Lets make sure people donot know the scams we and we be more sharing in our loot.
    Then lets appoint a toothless lokpal …with pmo out of the lokpal so all ministries under him can loot the country….

    Instead why shouldnt each scam be discussed one by one in the house infront of the poeple….
    and let every body be stripped off………unless they are going to get a serious lokpal who will investigate these…not kapil sibals puppet………….

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Prabhat,

    in several of your posts above you have done everything to run down Baba Ramdev and make him look silly, idiotic, megalomaniac and many other things.

    About his sthree-vesh, has it ONLY to be by disrobing a woman one can wear a saree? There were hundreds of families living in the camp and he could have borrowed one from any woman. But, you had to make fun of him in sleazy detail.

    You seem to have closed your eyes and ears to the phenomenon called Ramdev. He has a huge following throughout the world, unmatched by any political leader.

    His espousing the cause of anti-corruption might not be to your liking, but it is undeniable that his stature has actually risen several notches in the eyes of the general public. Even Anna Hazare cannot match it.

    That he failed in his first foray into the corruption ridden political world of India is no reason to make fun of his good intentions. He can always change his methods and can create deadly effect.

    The stark fact is that the people of this country are looking for a messiah to rid the country of its corruption. I hope you will NOT TRIVIALISE THE FIGHT BY MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE LIKE RAMDEV AND ANNA HAZARE.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Prabhat is happy with corruption in Indian society thats why he opposes Baba Ramdev
    who is try to eradicate this menace.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    “The differentiation is in details.”

    Look beyond the obvious.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I appreciate your concern for the corruption and black money. And I am also impressed that you think Ramdev to be the messiah who will help the country rid of the menace of black money. I can see that you have a huge faith in his abilities and intent.

    I think bringing in black money from abroad is a huge task and will take quite some time.

    Since you write letters to people and are a huge believer in Mr Ramdev, I would request you to focus on a very small and achievable task. My city, Delhi or your city Bangalore sees huge black money circulation in Real Estate business. I appeal to you to request Mr Ramdev to focus on just one city and help eradicate the circulation of black money in real estate deals.

    Just one city. Choose whichever city you think is quickly achievable. Let Mr Ramdev make that city free of Black money circulation, only in Real Estate business, before 2014.

    I will put objectives clearly so that there is no ambiguity.

    1) Choose any Metro city
    2) Make it Black Money FREE
    3) Only in Real Estate Business
    4) Time frame : 2014

    Now, shoot your letters to Mr Ramdev and set the target. I will be around to see the result.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @Prabhat

    Anyone who is opposed to Sonia Gandhi/Congress/UPA tends to become a ‘messiah’ for the trolls. What follows is a hallucination – this ‘messiah’ will shake the establishment at its very foundations and all the ills plaguing the country will be eradicated. They are already dreaming of the UPA being shown the door in 2014. Didn’t these very same people were utterly convinced that NDA would ride to power in 2004 and in 2009?

    One wonders whether juvenile mindsets have ever heard of reality checks at the ground level.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Manohar,

    I think long absence from the blog has affected your dreaming processes and also your language.

    You do not seem to have read Vinod Sharma’s earlier blog pleading for a “mili-juli sarkar”.

    Even a few weeks back, this blog from the congress camp-follower would have been unthinkable.

    2014 is a long way off. The way the FM and HM are sparring, the way Raja is coming out with ‘demands’, the way people like Mani Shankar Aiyar have characterised Sonia Gandhi’s office as circus, Kalmadi’s forced dementia, all are indicative of a fast crumbling edifice.

    The good news is that we don’t have to wait till 2014 for seeing this circus packing off.

    Manohar_T Reply:

    BVS

    I have many other things to do other than lurk around blogs. I visit blogs at most twice a day for few minutes and I normally do not get in to discussions, which do not have any connection with the subject matter.

    You can assume anything about the effects of my absence (rather the paucity of my posts), but do not for a moment think that your assumptions are anywhere near the truth.

    ‘Mili-juil sarkar’! IMO, not possible and not desirable, whether anybody pleads for it or not. In today’s scenario, such a set-up would not last 23 hours.

    Fast crumbling edifice! If wishes were horses, then BJP would be in power at the centre.

    You are welcome to wait for that good news. Good luck.

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Prabhat,

    I have already written to Ramdev about:
    1.just one country: Switzerland
    2.one business: banks
    3.one person: Sonia Gandhi
    4. Time frame: 2015.

    It is possible to bring Sonia Gandhi’s hoardings by 2015, because she wouldn’t be in power and any other government will have no problem in accessing the accounts.

    Ramdev need not do anything except keep his disciples focussed on the issue. People will make the government do the job.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I am sure Vajpayee had access to all banks in his 6 years of tenure.

    He did a marvelous job getting the black money from the Swiss banks.
    [ All those money went into India Shinning campaign ? ]

    He just missed out Sonia Gandhi’s. May be V P Singh did not pass the access code of Lotus to vajpayee.

    And ofcourse Vajpayee refused Fernades to touch the Bofor file !

    You know why your leaders talk of improbables ? Because, by the time you would think of holding them accountable, they would have achieved their political objectives, leaving you there where you were to begin with or even worse. Like Advani.

    NOTE : If you need 4 years to get just one person’s wealth from Swiss Bank. Imagine how long will you take to get all the wealth stashed away.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    are you so dumb as to believe anyone will take four years to bring back one person’s wealth only in four years. We will bring all the $1.4trillion in these four years, which will also include Sonia Gandhi’s 10billion too. GOT IT?

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Look at your own posting. You must have been real dumb to post that :

    I have already written to Ramdev about:
    1.just one country: Switzerland
    2.one business: banks
    3.one person: Sonia Gandhi
    4. Time frame: 2015.

    So proudly you sent the letter to your messiah.

    S Singh Reply:

    Shenoy

    We should not bring unfounded allegations. Has Sonia Gandhi been found guilty or has anybody accused her with evidence or has any Lokayukta invesigated her??

    Just heresays poison the well.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Singh,

    these are not “unfounded”. Subramaniam Swamy has given an affidavit in the SC givingher name as one of the Swiss Bank account holders, based on KGB documents and also other sources. Even in the US, she had filed a defamation suit against a HIndu organisation for $100millionand the suit was dismissed with costs.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy / Singh

    Subramaniam Swami has a “silver bullet” for his political opponent.

    He can throw any allegation on anybody. The onus is on the other person to disprove.

    Swami does not have to prove that.

    Swami can say Shenoy has 4 wives and does not have to prove. It’s upto Shenoy to prove that he does not have 4 wives ! Nice strategy,isn’t it ?

    [ Note : This is not my own interpretation. These are Swami's own words ]

  • S Singh

    Prabhat:

    From my own understanding perspective:

    - Is it a daunting task for the govt to bring back black money? (is it daunting for all Govts, say US, or just India ecause of peculiar laws here?)

    - Is it a question of legislation (and enforcement) to prevent future black money going out? Or is the legislaion already there, but it is not eforced (or cannot be enforced because these guys are powerful)

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Singh

    There are issues like privacy, agreement between countries, local political environment that would delay retrieval of such money. It’s the bankers who teach their clients how to cover the tracks. So it’s long drawn battle.

    But my point is that nobody bothers about huge parallel economy running in our own backyard ! Does Ramdev not know that land deals are done with cash components here in India? His own organisation must have done lots of those transactions ! In his organisation, people are paid half the amount but they are made to sign for full amount ! In Delhi, you barely pay 40% in white for any real estate deal. Our blogmates who own a house in metro must done cash component deals in real estate.

    Has anybody created an awareness to stop these deals? Has Ramdev ever tried to use his own TV channels and Yoga programmes urging his disciples not do cash deals and encourage black money?

    You just saw Shenoy boasting of bringing in $1.4 trillions. How romantic it sounds !

    But he refuses to start a drive that can make just one city free of Black Money that too only in Real estate.

    In the first case, people can get away with rhetorics and can attribute many exogenous factors for the failure. But in the second case, they have to take some definite and measurable actions to achieve the objectives which can also be audited. So naturally, the second option does not impress our friend Shenoy. And i am sure it will not impress his messiah Ramdev as well.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Prabhat,
    There is a line in the movie- Cat on a hot tin roof- that Paul Newman says to Elizabeth Taylor-

    ‘ Careful, Maggie, you are showing your claws ‘

    For someone who loves to blog and loves his own wordage, your lack of objectivity is disappointing. When you discuss Baba Ramdev- I say to you=

    ‘ Careful, Prabhat, you are showing your claws ‘

    Mock the man, his methods, his fall from grace at Ramlila maidaan- BUT NOT HIS MISSION

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    As a doctor you understand certain symptoms well. You interprete those symptoms, understand the problem and diagnose. Your touch and eyes catch certain symptoms that are not obvious to general people. Your professional training gives you that advantage.

    A good cricket player may may just read the run-up of the bowler and would know kind of ball to expect after few minutes. But your medical expertise can not read the bowler the way the trained batsman can read.

    Similarly, there are people who can read others’ words, phrases, body language dynamically and interprete the way that is not obvious to others.

    Ramdev is a man of multi-layers. He “hides” more than he reveals. And he is living in constant fear – of falling from grace.

    Dr Mishra, you have access to good resources. Please show few video clippings of Ramdev to some of your esteemed colleagues who are adept in understanding human behaviour and take some learned opinion.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Prabhat

    Just a simple question.

    If a batsman is able to read the bowlers run up, then why is he expecting a ball “after few minutes”. How long is the run up.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Ravi

    “Few minutes” here is an expression for the time lapse.

    You too caught on to it figuratively like others caught on to your 5000 rapes expression.

  • Dr D Mishra

    if the man brings back 100 billion dollars, I will be happy. If there is 14 TRILLION dollars out there, it deserves to come back here.
    I would back Chinese style death sentence to anyone who has stolen, say, 50 million dollars from the country The next b#satrd would think again before pilfering mother India
    So I say= hats off Baba Ramdev= you remembered the 2 lakh farmer suicides I spoke about in the last blog
    As for Prabhat- they do teach mocking and sarcasm well in private schools in India Well done Sir

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Somebody has not asked Ramdev yet how does he plan to bring the money back. I would love to listen to what Ramdev has to say. He has not talked about yet. And we have not heard even after months of his agitation.

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    It looks like Ravi has been called for reorientation training in Pakistan.

    Outing of Fia, appointment of this new FM, a nw Chief of joints Saff in US etc may require recalibration.

    Other Pakiss (such as Riaz Haq on Chowk.com) have also been silent. Riaz used to vomit constantly

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Prabhat, said something to you on prev page

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Thanks. Read and replied.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Shan – beginning of high end mafg exports from India — hiigh end mfg plus high end services qyuite good…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/business/media/manufactured-goods-lead-surge-in-indian-exports.html

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Binoy,

    Nice article. Thanks.

    Indian goods are slowly but surely without any hullabaloo are entering western markets.
    I will not be surprised that in near future such products will have great demand in these
    markets.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy , as much a very very heartening story , but the ENTIRE ARTICLE could not come up with a SECOND example .The auto exports are all by foreign companies.There is no question India can deliver HIGH END PRODUCTS, massive cutting edge research has been done in LASERS, but we need companies and govt capital to turn them into products. A little spoiler , are you aware each and every 2G spectrum had to bring in FOREIGN COLLABORATOR , BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE IN HOUSE TECHNOLOGY.not my words , but the words of kapil Sibal In NDTV yesterday.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Sting Op Reveals Centre Misusing CBI: Gujarat Govt

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?729050

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Mohan,

    Teesta Setalvad has applied for anticipatory bail.
    The whole game of fakes is coming unstuck.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Friends,

    there is a very fine news Item in NY Times of today, about the rise of Indian billionaires, inspite of government road blocks and how they are re-shaping India.

    Here is a story about a businessman Gautam Adani, who worked around every obstacle put up by the state and went on to own Coal mines in Indonesia ( because politics would not allow him to mine coal in India , even though India has 5th largest coal reserves ion the world ) , a port in Australia and built a private port in Mundra Gujrat, bought his own Cargo ships to bring in the coal from Indonesia and Australia so that he can produce electric power and sell it to industries and consumer in India. He could have sourced coal from local mines but he had to build his own infrastructure ( from port to cargo ships ) to get the coal from Indonesia because most of coal reserves in India cannot be mined because people who mislead the tribals, want them to stay poor and tribal and defeat any efforts to industrilize their areas. The right approach would have been to negotiate with the industrialists and make sure that the mining is done in enviromentally safest way possible and the industry share part of the profits for development of local population instead of the refressive, callous No to any development.

    Anyway, the story here is about how Gautam Adani ( now worth 10 billin dollars ) , grew in worth , as he worked around every obstacle put up by Indian politics and helped serve power hungry India. There would be no develoipment of India without abundant electrical power and people like Adani help in meeting the demand.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/world/asia/27tycoon.html?_r=1&hp

    MUNDRA, India — On a recent wind-whipped morning, a steel-hulled behemoth arrived at a desolate stretch of India’s western coast groaning with enough coal to power a city of one million people for more than two weeks.

    The ship, the Vanshi, was carrying coal from Indonesia, a two-week trip across the Indian Ocean. India has its own abundant reserves of coal, which raises a question: Why did India need to go so far to get something it already had?

    For Gautam Adani, the power mogul, the answer was simple: the easiest and most profitable way to meet India’s rising demand for electricity is to avoid the obstacles, divisive political confrontations and practical inefficiencies of India. In the spirit of the workaround ethos typical of India’s private sector, Mr. Adani is working around the subcontinent itself.

    He owns the Indonesian coal mine, the Korean-made cargo ship (named for his niece Vanshi), the Indian power plant and, most important, the private Mundra port. He owns coal mines and a major port in Australia, and has built his own private railroad spur in India. His business plan is to do as much as possible without relying on the creaky infrastructure of the Indian state.

    “He is able to do so well partly because he is very entrepreneurial and has found the right opportunity,” said Eswar Prasad, an economic adviser to India’s finance minister. “But it’s a symptom of a dysfunctional state. He is able to deliver something more effectively than the state.”

    Today, India is increasingly turning to the private sector to deliver the electricity needed to maintain rapid economic growth into the future. India’s economy is growing at more than 8 percent annually, but is badly constrained by an inadequate power supply after years in which the government dominated the power sector and failed to keep up with growing demand.

    ……………….
    continue reading in NY Times

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Adani group has brough lot of prosperity in Kutch. One more feather in the cap of Gujarat
    government who believes in development.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~ FAI ADMITS TAKING ISI FUNDS FOR TERROR – AFTER 3 DAYS OF ARREST ~~ :D :D

    Criminal justice can be fairly simple as the FBI and the Americans just proved. Three days of arrest and Fai admitted to being an ISI agent, making a living by spreading ISI funds to willing agents like Anagana of the shaking Kangana fame and agent Kuldip Nayar.

    In contrast had the case been in India, the following would have happened.

    — Digvinash Singh would have called it a RSS plot to defame a gentle liberal

    — Teesta Setalvad would have preapred a series of false affidavits blaming Narendra Modi

    — The channels would have shouted rape rape… as they needed scandal for TRPs. The would have even should a tearful Angana chatterji shaking her ang in sorrow… :D

    But nothing of this sort is happening in America. Even Fai seems relieved that he has told the truth and may escape easily…. :D

    But here is a possible list of things our freebies from ISI lovers can do :

    A) Agent Kuldip nayar should take the stance that when he attended the ISI conferencem he gave a speech as bring as his writing and made the suicide bombers die of boredom and not as killers of innocents… and so served India’s cause :D

    B) Angana Chatterji will now declare that she is preparing to dance and shake her ang for Ram Gopal Varma’s latest take on Sholay where a song is being filmed, the words bein

    Angana Angana
    ISI ke note khiltei hai
    Jab Confrence mein milte hain
    50000 dollars aur tu !! :D :D

    A) Angana Chaterji shoul

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    Is Angana a raw recruit or is she a polished operator

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Indian media has lost the distinction between good and evel, between a mass murderer and a state that has committed the most complete genocide of its minorities like Pakistan and a petty thief. Such loss of distinction is great for communal thugs , jihadis and pak-criminality.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay;
    These idiots are prisoners of bygone era. Kuldip Nayyar, brother of Sushila Nayyar, think that it is same Lahore of 30s and 40s. They speak from the perspective of Government College, Lahore. That is gone for good. Now Muslim fundamentalists and terrorists rule the roost. Imamuddin versus Hansraj is no duel now. It is Imamuddin all the way. Their candle light is no match to AK – 47.
    Kuldip should be now pensioned so that his old age should be taken care of, and he need not to write for survival.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    Kuldip should cetianly blow out the deep of his writing and then the world can sat yeh kuldeep nahin… kuldushman hai….

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Is Ghar ko Aag lag gayi Ghar ke Chirag se.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Ghulam Nabi Fai

    If there is enough evidence that Mr Fai has taken money from the ISI in return for anti India activities, then it is simple.

    He should be charged, tried and if found guilty punished.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Baharon Phool barsao, mera Mahboob aya hai, mera Mahboob Aaya hai.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    खुदाया यँहा तेरे इनसाफ में रकीबों को कासिद बनाते हैं क्यों

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Raqeeb? Are you sure?? I am saying Mahboob.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    May have been some time in the past.

    there has flowed under the bridge much boiling blood, since then.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Man;
    you have been talking to people 10 times more opposed, than me. No I am not yearnig here for your friendship!!!
    Anyway, I had said before, your thinking and my thinking is different, but feeling like Raqueeb sounds like Sarhad Par.

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj sir.

    उन्की पहचान हे/

    आप तो बहरूपिऐ लगते हो/

    इस लिऐ छाज को ठँठा करके पिने की आद्दत से मजबूर हुँ

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi dear;
    I am not that far, bahroopia, as you think, but, if you are not a bahroopia, yourself, then, I will say, Chhachh ko khoob phoonk lee jiye. And, when you think, it is cold enough, tabhi peejiye. I am not as safforon, as you would like to think but at the same time, what is good for India and what is not, I can also visualize. Do not think that living in UK, and visiting India yearly, has endowed you some better insight. Anyway, deal is still on.

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj ji

    Not sure I know what the deal is.

    If you are not as saffron as I may have imagined you to be then, Iam glad.

    I do not believe that I say things with the intention of it being bad for India. Why would I want to do that??

  • Ravi

    I was just wondering if Dr Mishra has booked a sailing trip to Norwegian Fjords.

    He may find more friends there than he would do at sharm el sheikh

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Honton pe kabhi un ke mera naam hi aye
    Aye to sahi, bar sar-e-ilzam hi aye

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Vinod sharma,saw you on NDTV.You must be making a few bobs ,though for IT reasons obviously you wouldn’t like to discuss with us.
    You didn’t say a great deal about the indo pak meeting.
    I am a tad confused.I read that there is a change in the thinking of the pak side , the lady says that there has been a change in mindset, yet meeting huriyat ,is rubbing the wrong way up.
    At the same the “infiltration and encounters” continue in J&K.
    I think pakistan has realised it cannot open too many fronts. As its relation with Aone ,that is Amrika has gone pear shaped , it wants to keep its relationship in a neutral gear.This is because Atwo the ARMY ,i don’t know how much it has changed. If IMRAN KHAN is to be beleived , a substantial part of army may rebel and force throwover of the civilian govt unless all co-operation with america is snapped. This is because the Athree , ALLAH/ISLAM is so deeply entrenched in their every minute thinking.Just flick through the pakistani channels , always there are couple of channels on religion and every sentence begins and ends with invocation to religion.
    The kind of thinking “defending my faith” is the language of CRUSADES or 15th century .
    As to this lady SHE IS FEUDAL INCARNATE.Her uncle’s 5th wife Mrs Durrani wrote a book MY FEUDAL LORD, which showed how primitive is the landed feudals of PUNJAB.Apparently all the womenfolk drink and smoke in that class and adultery is rife. Also if a fuedal sets his eye on any girl , then the only think that follows from that is the girl in the feudal’s bed.
    So you and the bloggers , what do they think about this talk about talks.
    @mahesh , saw the film you spoke about THE DEATH OF A PRESIDENT, which showed funeral of bush.
    The line that stuck with me is the one where he addresses the chicago mayor and businessmen.
    He says MR daley(the mayor) and me are from different party but we have one thing common.NOW MARKS THESE WORDS WHICH EPITOMISES AMERICA

    WE BOTH LOVE OUR COUNTRY MORE THAN WE LOVE OUR PARTY.
    Indian politicians please learn

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Shan

    USA has been trying to persuade Pakistan, that it faces existential threat from within its borders and not from India.

    However, this paradigm shift is difficult for Pakistan to accept as it continues to believe that it can control the Ginny it has let escape.

    What appears, at least superficially is that Pakistan wants to try peace, without making any withdrawals or any other compromises? Their time would come only when the peace dividends have been enumerated and possibly banked.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Ravi, the only peace dividend that follows from the entente cordial , is pakistan can reduce its military spending by 50%.That is dividend to me but for Pakistani army that is worst than abusing the prophet.
    other than that , india can give scholarship , pakistan can import medicines which are mind bogglingly cheap. can help with IT training , BUT IS THAT WHAT PAKISTAN IS WANTING.
    The thing that pakistan wants is a plebiscite in kashmir , and give kashmir to pakistan , that is worse than abusing Lord Ram.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Friends,

    this is for those of us who are interested in the minig scam that has destroyed nature in large parts of the state, enriched a lot of already rich businessmen, bureaucrats and politicians, but made the state poorer by an estimated 16000 crores.

    1. Mining industry in Karnataka is decades old. But the scamsbegan somewhere in 2000.
    2. Both HD Kumaraswamy (JDSCM) and Yeddyurappa had at different times asked the Lokayukta to investigate and report.
    3. Now, both theseCMs are indicted by the same Lokayukta for irregularities.
    4. In its 2008 interim report, the Lokayukta had indicted the congress CM, Dharam Singh for giving licences for mining in protected areas and hgeld him rersponsible for causing loss of 323crores to the state exchequer.
    5. HD Kumaraswamy too has been held guilty of issuing licences against well established rules, though now he claims that he has not made any money, honey.
    6. The BJP government has not issued any fresh licence in the last three years, but the CM has bent rules and SC guidelines by allowing his favoured Reddy brothers and also some other miners to continue mining and extend their mining to unauthorised.
    7. In the process he has received illegal gratifications as bribes in different forms amounting to Rs. 30 crore.
    8. The final report pertains to 2006-2011, and names 784 people belonging to the three above named class of people.

    In conclusion, Yeddyurappa is a very, very foolish politician who wanted to grab as many crores as he can through all means, all of them foul. He didn’t care to read the fate of Khoda, the Jharkhand CM, who made Rs.1000 crores in just one year, probably in illegal mining activities. he also forgot that Karnataka is not Jharkhand, where the central minister of the UPA1, Shibu Soren, could just disappear without even his PM not knowing where.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    correction: POint #4: it is 32 crores.
    Point #5: unauthorised areas.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    @ Prabhat Reply: @ Dr Mishra= Somebody has not asked Ramdev yet how does he plan to bring the money back. I would love to listen to what Ramdev has to say.
    ”””””””””””””””””””
    Thanks for your reply Prabhat, your anti Ramdev tone is softer now. Like I said before, earlier you had, like most of ’sophisticated’ society, bared your claws
    Now to answer you, this maverick yogi has done the right thing to fire up nationalism and stoke up the anger of hidden money abroad.. IT IS THE JOB OF THE LEGISLATURE AND JUDICIARY TO GET IT BACK
    That it hasnt come back yet tells me that amny in the legislature and judiciary have accounts abroad !!!

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    I do my bit by attacking the pseudo seculars and the ’sophisticated clattering classes’ who have repeatedly sneered at the rustic yogi crusader, whose only crime is to inch closer to hindu culture and use terms like BHARAT MATA

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    It would be nice if BJP and Congress got together and harnessed the whirlwind created by Anna and Baba, to deliver results If the media could similarly guide Baba about real politic and counsel him when he makes excitable comments

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    My tone is not softer or louder. The intonation of reply depends on the question.

    Ramdev’s anti-corruption reality show happened amidst street demonstrations in Arab countries. Like your yacht sometimes gets supported by the favourable wind, the demonstrations those days got supported by the massive hysteria in Arab countries. The media was on high. The facebook crowd was on high. The Govt. did not want an arab like street demonstration happening in India and go out of control. So they were not sure how to deal with the situation initially. Also the top echelon in the Govt were not comfortable about scams being reported. So I guess they also wanted to support anti-corruption movement. So the reality show got a little extra TRP.

    You said :…the rustic yogi crusader, whose only crime is to inch closer to hindu culture …

    I can not understand how can belittle Shenoy’s messiah so badly !

    I thought Ramdev was fully immersed in Hindu Culture. And you say he is just a inch closer to hindu culture !!!

    In your eagerness to do your “bit”, you perhaps forgot to measure Ramdev up properly. Please go full throttle, do not do just a bit.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    Dhirendra Brahamchari– he was close to your goddess’ family– was the guy who first got Yoga into the houses of crores. So respecct him for his Yoga, even when you hate him for his gun running and closeness to Mrs gandhi.

    And Ramdev

    a) Got Pranayam and Yoga into the hearts and bodies of crores and crores

    b) Started the anti corruption movement

    So respect him for that.

    His figures on balck money may be far out. His solutions at times balooney. But he is not talking about destroying the Indian state. So get the right perspective… :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Pranayam and Yoga has been there in public domain for a long time. Infact Ravishankar has been active with his AOL programme for more than 30 years. So let’s not go so gung-ho about Ramdev’s yoga. Mahesh Yogi has done a lot in that domain. So did many others. Indian Yogis have been ruling the World with Yoga for decades. You might have just woken up to Yoga and its power recently, like a parent suddenly taking interest in cricket because his child just started playing the game.

    Skeletons would come out when the sudden disappearance case of Shankar Dev is solved.

    Investigation into Swami karamveer and Swami Harishchandra’s sudden exit from Haridwar will open up other side of your favourite and Shenoy’s messiah Ramdev.

    Every now and then his close associate Balkrishna vanishes and goes underground. He will also help open our eyes about Ramdev soon. The noose has just begun to tighten.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    The CBI, The ED and CID may be misused by the Congress to tar its opponents to any extents.

    So you feel they are now going to level criminal and murder charges?/ :D

    Since you know about ti already… all this must be pre-planned :D

    Remember Brinda karat. From a hep cat she was reduced to a bheegi billi running for cover :D
    She had also created imaginary human skletons to defame.

    let the Congress get into this battle…. :D

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    The good thing is that CBI and ED are working independently under full watch of media, public and the courts. If they keep working like this, there will surely be a different culture in these organisations.

    Brinda Karat let the charges drop after very senior politicians from BJP and Laloo requested her not to pursue it as Ramdev was starting to become Hindu Icon. Later Brinda said she supported the cause, but not the man.

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    The actual facts are– nobody except NDTV and Prakash Karat supported Brinda.

    Even old communists like SOmnath Chatterjee and AB Bardhan said that she had gone off track.

    NDTV arranged a debate with Suhel Seth and one Bong Professor on one side and Ramdev on the other. THe viewers polled 97% for Ramdev and 3 % for his opponents. You can check out the results on the net.

    The hep cat became the bhigi billi and ran away to London for a month. :D

    When NDTV found its viewrship falling it changed tracks. However seeing Ramdev in a soup, it is extracting its revenge…

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    CBI working independently is a big, big joke.

    The media has not yet woken up to the sting operation on CBI done by India TV in the Sohrabuddin encounter killing case. If you know about the revelations on tape, you will laugh at the proposition that the CBI is working independently.

    The ED works directly under the FM. His word is law to the department.

    Prabhat’s capacity for cracking jokes has sharply increased with his efforts to paint Brinda Karat in blazing red colours, whereas in actual fact, she had her face blackened in the takker with Ramdev.

  • shan

    Rakhi sawant wants to marry baba ramdev,but baba is already in a relationship with Balakrishna.If baba is bisexual then rakhi should be fine for rakhi sawant herself is of ambigous sex helped by plastic surgery.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Shan-

    Lets us stay away from making these types of allegations, unless Baba has stated he is in relationship with this guy…and if he has, it cannot be an allegation..Live and let live

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    Rakhi Sawant is a publicity seekar. Before that she had said she wanted to marry Rahul Gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    She said “Soniaji ke saath uski daal nehi galegi” or something like that

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    can you give any reason why, of late Rahul baba is getting offers from such dubious characters like Rakhi Sawant and Bobby Darling?

  • vijay kumar

    @ Everyone especially Ravi

    ~~ :D :D ~~ THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE ANGANA CHATERJI’S ~~~ :D :D ~~~

    Mid ninties in Delhi was a fun place to be in. Suddenly for us college students– there was lack of ideology and more of technology …

    Marx was dead. The Communism which had attracted the youth ealier had been overthrown by the people it had pledged to empower. To love Chinese communism– you had to be a hardcore CPM convict– for China was loving Nokia, General motors and Coke, even as it clamped down on individual freedoms.

    My own friends– spread across IIT, Delhi COllege of Engineering, JNu and LSR ( :D ) were now divided between the technologically inclined and those who ere set to enjoy the materialistic freedoms coming in becasue of PV Rao and liberal policies. And thos who rejected them totally.

    Among those who rejected this new India was a group– which wanted to classify everything as per some classification. Gender- race- caste- class…

    Some would argue for Mandal ad others against. but all of us loved Amitabh Bachchan !! Even the hardcore lefties… with a beard. Even I had a beard for some time :D

    I would often argue that it is futile to categorise everything on those lines. After all human beings shifted groups. As long as you created wealth… and had liberal democracy as a foundation, things would be good.

    But for a hardcore group… which believed that everything was wrong with the Indian state…. this was futile. Among them were people who thought they could now get SCHOLORSHIPS IN EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES BY REPORTING STORIES ON REAL AND IMAGINED DIRT IN INDIA.

    I remembered arguing with one girl who had applied for a scholorship claiming that there was lot of incest in India; another who was applying for a study on torture of women…

    the most interesting case was of a nice girl who was applying for a scholorship based on stories of re-icarnation with a learned professor. For the Americans finding a re-icarnated American is not easy. For an Indian– talk to your dhobi, he will tell you ten peole in his village who have been re-incarnated !! :D

    “Arre baba” I used to tell them, ” The problem is in India. Why get the whiteman into it… ? he is NOT interested… all these studies would just be used to cheapen our image…”

    But it was ll so futile. I think getting the scholorship and a foregin ticket was more important.

    THAT IN MY VIEW IS PROBABLY ANJANA CHATTERJI’S STORY :D :D :D

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Vijay-

    Anjana may be on the dole from ISI, also from evangelical missions .. I do not think she has a PhD from US, or if she has , it is fom a fly by night university.

    She is an expert on the orissa”progrom” (yes- Progrom as she calls it– all those seven who got killed)

    The placewhere she is the “professor” is a fly by night place supported by people with interests

    She must have got money from Fia, for she lives in US

    But hey, this is India — you become respected by insulting the majority — how the fascist Hindus are cleansing off minorities’ – Muslims and Christians (in her case she has taken the Christian case, but she doesnt have any takers other than fringe Christians; evangelicals may be finacing her; evangelicals may not want her to spend on Msulim issues because they dont like Mslims) a

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ S Singh

    I think her source of funding has to be probed. I doubt whether RAW or the Indian govenrment has the enrgy to do so.

    There are a lot of fake scholors and fake human rights organisations floating around. Probing their funding would reveal how the Indian state is being attacked.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Vijay – I agree.

    However, I am of the firm opinion that these bit players play only short-term damage – they get coverage for xx days, get uson human rights watch list etc

    But the larger threat (other than Pakistan and Pakistani inspired groups) is from within – corruption, unaccountable and non-responsive bureaucracy, erosion of values.

    Let us take bureaucracy – We had 80 plus people killed in the rail accident last month. Did anybody lose job because of that? Shouldnt he be tried for “second degree’ murder of 80 people? How is 20 people getting killed in Mumbai attack worse than 80 people getting killed by the train running off because the track was not maintained. How can we call it an “accident”. How many of these accidents a country can tolerate?

    IAS bureaucracy has been stealing for ever; with money meant for schools, womens development, other development etc being pocketed by them in many instances – these are huge sums. I bet there is less than 10 IAS officers in jail all across India – Their “peer review system;’ etc guarantees they cannot be touched. Isnt an IAS guy who stole 100 crores worse than a terrorist who killed, say 5 people? These guys, through their actions and inactions, leave villages in pemanent poverty, permanent illiteracy, permanently unhealthy.

    As Shan says we need a Vivekananda to take us out of this rut. May be Ramdev is trying to fill in. He may never raise to the paygrade of Vivekananda, and I do not think he claims to be one; he comes across as a humble man of the people…it is good for all of us If hecan get good things done through his charisma and leadership capabilities,

    .

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shoeb

    Corruption is a huge danger. And the biggest one is inaction— which is a peculiar trait of our bureaucrats.

    Sadly with so much noise on corruption all bureaucrats have started sitting on the files. Even routine decisions are torpedoed.

    Wish there was some punishment for inaction….

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Singh

    I have not followed what kind of stuff Anjana writes. But since you talked of incident that happened in Odisha, let me tell there was no issues with Christian communities in Odisha till the time BJP came to power along with BJD. In just few years, they vitiated the atmosphere in Odisha beyond repair. Anti-social elements like Dara, who migrated from Bihar, started ruling the street and neighbourhood with active support from BJP. Like many states, now even Odisha has got polarised.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    While all human beings have a right to choose their religions, mass conversion programs have their repurcussions.

    I think when missionories come– they should praise the religion of the locals– even when they spread education and health knowledge. Would that not be wonderful?

    If you remember when OSHO went to US, a section of the state reacted by levelling so many charges against him.

    I would never defend Dara Singh. In my eyes he deserves the death penalty.

    But in my view massive conversion programs are bad and casue religous tensions and violence. it is like saying my religions is better than yours… So you should better convert.

    Can’t a missionary just say. ” Your religoin is good. So when I provide you education I would also teach you to love your own god…”

    believe me… all the violence in the world would be over.

    Prabhat you can dig out facts. Osama Bin Laden often taunted the West to follow Islam. While George Bush had an army of evangalists to enter iraq as soon as the American troops entered.

    That is what war of the Gods about….

  • Prabhat

    @ Vijay

    Give the best environment to your scientist and technocrat, the brain drain will stop.

    Similarly, give respect to your fellow countrymen, remove the stigma of caste and the conversion will never happen.

    Nobody likes to leave his country or convert to another religion.

    Let’s work on our shortcomings first and stop blaming others.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Vijay brilliantly said-
    ‘ think when missionories come– they should praise the religion of the locals– even when they spread education and health knowledge. Would that not be wonderful ‘

    40 years ago my poor family servant Leela became Lily and a follower of the cross- the prize was entry to a school for her children that was otherwise closed to her

    Just imagine the beauty and strength of hindu civilisation which in the 8th century had kings like Harsh Vardhan who were advocating respect for all religions, promoting vegetarianism and abolshing death penalty- a sitting duck of a civilisation that was not prepared for the tsunami of Genghis, Ghazni and Taimur- and the CONVERT, OR ELSE MOVEMENT kicked off for centuries

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr mishra

    Gandhiji said it the best way. When hindu had killed a Muslim in a communal riot— he told the Hindu to adopt the dead man’s son and give him Muslim education….

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, Dr. Mishra, Mohan,

    the specific case of Orissa is typical of the pseudo secular double talk. The target of the missioneries are the scheduled tribes, who are actually the primitive forest dwellers.

    The JNU historians say these tribals are not Hindus. How come they become voluntarily, Christians?
    Why don’t the missioneries respect the primitive religions of the tribals?

    Without knowing what Hinduism stands for or what Christianity propagates, how can these mostly illiterate people decide for themselves and voluntarily convert to Christianity? This line of argument about “voluntary conversion” is totally untenable.

    These tribals have been given some cash each for conversion and then promised better living standards, as they are told that money is available in plenty from US and EU. This is the sole reason for the tension in Orissa and the murder of Swamy Lakshmanananda and his desciples was the trigger to the trouble that followed.

    Incidentally, the Swamy resorted to the same tactics the missioneries adopted for conversion and brought thousands of the tribals back to the Hindu fold, for which he paid the price with his life.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Write a letter to your messiah ( like you always do ) Ramdev to donate the money that he spends hiring Sahara Jet ( just one chartered fee ) to tribals and thousands of tribals can spend their whole lifetime happily with that kind of money and they will not resort to conversion.

    Also send your messiah to Africa or Amazon forest to live in with natives there and convert them to Hindus.

    Instead of 9 days fasting on the TV, your messiah can see how tribals/natives manage to fast for many more days without his brand of Yoga !

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    you too may write to Sonia Mata to donate 1 billion dollars of the money stolen from we poor Indians and donate to the poor tribals and also pray to her to go back to Italy for her bar attending work. Let her learn to live on the tips thrown at her from the “fans”.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    As per your post above, tribals accept donations and happily convert to christianity.

    Still you want Sonia to donate money to tribals instead of your messiah Ramdev !

    No wonder Ramdev spends 8 crores on the tent at Ramlila Maidan , but does not donate money to tribals.

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    I am talking about the tribals who have not agreed to convert to Christianity and also those who returned to the Hindu fold. Sonia Mata can donate 1 Billion from the Swiss bank accounts easily, this small alms wouldn’t even pinch her.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    If the tribals have not agreed to convert to christianity even after getting donations, then you should not worry about them ! Your whole theory of tribals converting to christianity after getting donation does not hold water.

    You want to be known as the face of Hindutwa while wanting Sonia to donate the money for your cause ! Even beggers have some values and respect !

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    In India, only ‘beggars have some values and respect’. For the rich, it is assumed that they have them as a matter of course.

    If you can demand that Baba Ramdev donate money to the tribals, I too can demand that Sonia Gandhi too should donate some of the huge monies she has stolen from the Indian public and hoarded in Swiss banks. I repeat that this is really peanuts for her.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Since the context of the discussion was religion, I am glad you have put both Ramdev and Sonia on the same pedestal.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    You said :…the prize was entry to a school for her children that was otherwise closed to her …”

    The answer to the problem lies in your own posting, yet you choose to keep wondering about the problem !

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    I agree with you. Money, education for childeren, housing is very very important
    for everyone. Motivation of these things will always help these missionories to
    convert poor people. Sadly to stop such conversions violence is used, which has never worked and will never work . It is very simple they need financial stability. I dont believe
    that any government whether congress or BJP is serious enough to provide these basic
    things to people. Everybody has to do its own bit. I have to make sure that my houseboy/maid,
    people working for my compnay are paid enough that they dont have any problem getting
    these basic necessities.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Prabhat , you ar spot on , the likes of mishra, hypocrite to the bone , will show his undying love for the tribals. The same tribal just speaks to her daughter, and the daughter gets her just desert from Mishra(presuming mishra has daughter or granddaughter).
    By the same token , these tribals ar left to their own devices , NEVER EVER A SINGLE HINDU ORGANISATION doing any yeoman;s work , NOT EVEN ALLOWING THEM TO ENTER TEMPLES,
    yet when they convert ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.
    What can you expect from the RAW SEWAGE CASTE

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    “” Vijay brilliantly said-
    ‘ think when missionories come– they should praise the religion of the locals– even when they spread education and health knowledge. Would that not be wonderful “”

    Vijay/Mishraji,

    Words above sound very good. But we all know that this is never going happen.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    India is a land of 1.2 billion people; different languages, customs, religions, groups; various flarings happen; rushing to judge and label them as a fundamental flaw in the Indian psyche or a deviation from the 6000 years of understanding and tolerance is a grave mistake.

    The Orissa situation was the result of a combination of events, with each intrested party giving its own interpretations. There was Strines murder; Swami Lakshmana’s and his three or four disciples’ murder, the classic issue of Christian clebration and Hindu celebration happening at the same time, the age old animosity between Kandhas and Panhas (many of them converted to christianity, but their age old tribal fights never ended), animosity towards rthe increasing religious conversion, all happening in the background of an emerging Maoist insurgency.

    If I were an advisor to Christian missionaries doing conversion, my suggestion will be not to do that or be very senstive to local community feelings. Violence will eschew. You cannot hide behind constitution. Forced and induced conversions are not lasting ones. The syrian catholic church in Kerala survived and thrived for the last 2000 years because people were attracted to St Thomas and what he had to say; he neither had money or people to force and induce; the local kings did not intefere or oppose; (in fact the history is that the Travancore King had a decree that only educated people (and in those days most of the educated people belonged to upper crust) could choose Christianity because religious choosings had to be done based on understanding of the religion; and uneducated people lacked that foundation.

    It is simplistic to suggest that Hindus should build schools, provide/compete on christian inducements – there is no way one can compete with these well-funded American evangelical groups.

    Indian Government should undertake major development schmes to alleviate thereasons for conversion or ban religious conversions. Riots are bound to happen in the absence of this. And it wil lnot be one time. Wounds never heal. It will get revisited periodically.

    Media, human right secularists etc also have to put things in proper perspective. Can the killing of 40 people in mass hysteria as the result of the killing of a religious leader (mistaken identity to start with– later it was found that Maoists and not Christians killed them) be labelld as “it is unsafe for Christians to live in India” (as somebody remarked earlier in the blog, 80 people got killed because an official did notdo his job; and every othe day many die like this due to total negligence by govt and its officials; even in Swami Lakshman’s case, his repeated requests to protect him were ignored).

    We should isolate these ’selective” case peddlers and expose them. If christians were persecuted, Kerala would not have a Christian CM now (AP had a Christin CM a stheir most beloved) . neither they will be the richest community in the state. And they remain a minority..

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Well said !! At the end of the day interaction between religions is a way of evolving. But there should be no threat to each other. Every person has a right t follow the path he wants to walk on…

    Or become an athiest if he wants to..

    The right to change religion is a basic right.

    However any mission which seeks to convert and vilify the other’s religion is only promoting tension and bad values….

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Raju,

    What you have written is very nice, but the problem is that you want an ideal world. Is it poosible?

    You have writtien “‘ If I were an advisor to Christian missionaries doing conversion, my suggestion will be not to do that or be very senstive to local community feelings ”

    However, what I believe that to convert 1 person and if ten are killed in the process is no problem
    with these people .
    .

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Dark cloud on the horizon. Deoband will vigorously oppose RIGHT TO EDUCATION ACT being applied to madrassahs. I do not blame the bearded ones , I blame the NON BEARDED ones in that community for being such spineless. As for CONgress, let’s see how it gets out of this test.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Shan

    That’s tragic. It’s just a few people always hold the whole society to ransom.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Prabhat

    Couldn’t the society take action If that statement is true (“few holding whole society to ransom”)

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Singh

    Basically, the society loves to maintain the status-quo and prefer a non-invasive lifestyle. People tend to ignore things till the time they are not directly affected so badly that their day-to-day is ruined. Concern for family safety also prevents them play a proactive role opposing the bad / negative elements in the society. To confront these elements they have to settle for huge trade off that can even harm their personal life. So the negative elements take advantage of this inertia and do things whimsically.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    it is a no brainer. Remember Shah Banu case? Rajiv Gandhi succumbed under pressure from the bearded Mullahs. Now his wife will succumb to the same beards. Mullahs hold Muslims to ransom, our pseudos hold the country itself to ransom.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Madrasa reform in India????

    Look what is ahppening in the “prestigious” Punjab University in Pakistan — poetry and articles competition in honor of the great Muslim Saint Osama Bin Laden… figure out guys

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/world/asia/28lahore.html

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Binoy,

    I also read somewhere that on two days, two important guests from India will recite their poems and read their papers: one is Ram Vilas Paswan, and you know why.
    The other is Digvinash singh, you know why too.

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Lee Kwan forced Singapore Madrasas to change their curriculum modernizing the mdrasa system.

    India should force a “top down’ change on these primitive sh– … .I agree wth Prabhat, it is a national threat

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    It is a slip by Prabhat. Actually, as per his party’s diktats, he is quite comfortable with the primitiveness of the madrasas or their students. It would be blasphemous for them to even suggest changes towards modernity.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I have trained the trainers who could bring about changes in madrassas through technology enabled scientific learning processes. There are good people in muslim community who wants to change the way education is being imparted at maddrassas. But it’s a long struggle for this small and progressive group of people.

  • B.V .SHENOY

    Good news for all congressmen and particularly Kalmadi fans(?).

    KALMADI HAS REGAINED HIS MEMORY.
    NOW HE HAS TOLD SONIA GANDHI THAT HE CAN REMEMBER, CLEARLY, THE SWISS BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS, WHERE THE CWG STOLEN MONEY HAS BEEN HOARDED!

    PRABHAT, THIS CALLS FOR CELEBRATION!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I do not joke about certain illness people suffer. You may talk anythingelse about Kalmadi, I would join the issue. Please excuse.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    I will joke heartily about faked illnesses.

    But your illness is real. You are suffering from partial amnesia, you forget all the gigantic frauds your Singh-Sonia government has committed and you remember only Yeddy-Ramdev, fraud, fraud

    You also never let go of the slogan, Modi, Modi, rape, rape.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Please pay royalty to Vijay on the copy right violation – “Modi, Modi, rape, rape”

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    Modi Modi rape rape… is in public domain now… for all Hindustanis, free of charge.

    but Digivinash Singh is Shenoy’s eternal gift to India and the world… :D

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Shenoy and Prabhat

    I will join in the celeberations… in case beer and wine is being served…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    prabhat is not happy. The good samaritan that he is, he will not rest till he gets that one billion dollar donation from Sonia Mata from the Swiss bank hoardings for the welfare of the tribals that he has taken as his life’s mission.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Poor Shenoy !

    You called yourself poor. You know why you are poor ?

    While you sleep, Reddy brothers mine iron ores illegally, overload the trucks and sell to Pakistan.

    Yes, while you contest Pakistan here, the money bag of the BJP Govt. in Karnataka happily keep doing business with Pakistan through Dubai.

    Not sure if Reddy Brothers bring in ISI money for BJP’s sustenance. But I will consult Vijay for his valuable opinion on this.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Pratap,

    you too slept when Dharam Singh and company looted the state with their illegal mining!

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I woke up ( like everybody else ) to see Yeddi desperately doing it in collaboration with Reddi brothers !

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    @ Shoeb

    Since you talked about corruption and we all agree it is the single biggest issue which eats our nation— let me throw a bouncer at you.

    What is worse– CORRUPTION or incompetence AND INACTION ???

    An example :

    a) Former sports Minister Mani SIlencer AIyar is a highly incompetent and in-active person. Give him a mission and he will fail but somehow impress the media and English speaking Indians by giving a thousand reasons why the mission was faulty.

    He was given the mission to organise the CommonWealth games. Any good person would take this as a challenge to do a hugely good job and make the nation proud. But for Mani AIyar it was a reason to throw gas and also prove why he is mentally superior. He first said that

    1) Sports is a nonconsequential Ministery. Games are a waste of time

    2) India is a poor country and should organis kabaddi events instead.

    It was clear Mani is all foul air and incompetent and incapable of doing anything except name buildings after the Nehru family.

    India was soon going to become the laughing stock of the world becasue of Mani Aiyar’s non perfomance for 4 years since he blcoked all progress on the games.

    ~~~ :D :D ~~ Now the corrupt: ~~ :D :D ~~

    Kalmadi is not as corrupt as he is made out to be. It is only Mani’s words that he looted 70,000 crores. Kalmadi’s corrution would be about– my guess 100 crores– much of it would have gone to the congress. :D

    1) He got a the games on line even after Mani Aiyar blocked all progress for four years and Kalmadi just got two to organise events

    2) The games were fairly good and possible better than what most countries in the COmmonwealth– barring possibly England or Australia could have organised. But then England is too poor to have Gigantic stadiusm. Australia is culturally poor and would not have got the ceremonies so culturally rich.

    3) Even when the world was baying for him, Kalmadi still stood steadfast. Mani Aiyar — the INcompetent failure was creating stories day after day, based on lies….

    SO SHOEB NOW ANSER MY QUESTION :

    Who is worse— The corrupt or the Inactive and inefficient ???? :D

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Vijay-

    Obviously Mani Iyer – his only qualification is that he is a classmate and freiend of Rajiv.

    And he is contemptuous –his commnt on Kabdi is the typical stereotypical one you expect from the ‘privileged” Doon graduates.

    While I do not like Kalmadi making money out of CWG, I do not have an objection; he is a private individual, he tries to maximize his return. He should be punished if wrongdoings are found. And all govt secretaries etc who are involved should be summarily fired.

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shoeb

    In my opinion you are right !

    I got this debate in just to get the thought that the inefficient decisions makers are ultimately the guys who end up creating corruption.

    When the janata is fed up because of no action, they look for people who are willing to get the work done for money….

    [Reply]

    Sanjay Mittal Reply:

    This is an intersting subject. What came first. In-effeciant government or the corrupt rulers.

    But at the end of the day…. Indians are more happy with corruption than inefficiency….

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    when there were strong allegations of corruption against Punjab chief minister, Pratap Singh Kairon, Jawaharlal Nehru castigated all the critics, saying, “But Kairon is so efficient!”

  • Binoy Hegde

    Great news! Ford investing $1 Billion in Gujrat! Go, Modi, go! Well done Modi–

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/business/ford-to-increase-its-plant-capacity-in-india.html

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Binoy,

    Ford has a winner in their small car Figo and close on the heels of Tatas (Nano), it is quite understandable that Ford follows suit.

    Now I am worried that Manmohan Singh will start chanting, epar, epar, idoM, idoM!!!!!

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    I am worried about the mileage of Figo… my manager just purchased one… and fuel is on company account :D

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    VIJAY, YOUR PEN SLIPPED”””””””
    Normally I like your posts, but not this one- ‘ What is worse– CORRUPTION or incompetence AND INACTION ? ‘

    I did not get where I am by opting between 2 bad choices
    India, which was the pre eminent civilisation in the first milenium, must aim much higher.

    I want both pro-active govenance and zero corruption. Your defence of Kalmadi is embarrassing- even if he stole 100 crores, hit the b#stard hard And Kanimozhi, and Yedyrappa and Hassan Ali

    Tomorrow Mayawati and others will tremble a bit when they plan the next scam

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    if i understand kalmadi is a private citizen…. that is the difference..we should not lump him along with mayawati, kanimozhi , yedrappa etc…

    hassan ali is a private citizen too– obviously ministers and bureaucrats are behind him..

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Binoy

    Why do you think Kalmadi to be a private person ? He dealt with the public money. So he is definitely answerable.

    In a recent judgement, the court said RTI is applicable to even ADAG Reliance as they deal with critical service like electricity.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Dr Mishra

    I did not defend kalmadi at all !!

    In fact just proved that many of our so called eloquont politicans are so ineffficient that they end up causing massive corruption.

    In the end WE NEED AN HONEST EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT… EFFICIENCY IS THE KEY.

    And i am saying this because this present MMS government is badly crippled now and NOBODY int eh bureaucracy is taking any decison.

    In the end some dishonest person will come and take the decisons and then ask for mullah.

    And Honest but inefficisntt person becomes the reason behend corruption

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    I meant moolah

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Actually Kapil Sibal comes a cross as a n0nonsense guy – tough, pragmatic.. He may be “policy” corrupt (Mrs Gamdhi’s); but does not look financially corrupt…Expecting 100% is ok; but we all ahve to settle for what is practical

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Binoy

    Sibal is definitely not corrupt.

    Infact I never thought he would become a politician. But I guess he has done well for himself as a politician.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    prabhat

    Viewing from here in USA, he looks like a PM material; a decisivve guy who get things one (Obviously mr MMS using him as a fixer indicates he can get things done)..

    Why wouldnt congress go with him; lethim straighten things as PM for one or two terms,N, and really have a robust platform on which Rahul can potentially take over (if he can amss plurality of support from working group) at a later date

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Binoy

    Dont expect Sibal to get the PM’s chair. Either it is Digvinash or Rahul baba. Or a foot in the grave politican who wont keep the seat too long to keep both these guys waiting… :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    1) Digvijay is definitely not aiming for PM’s chair. And he may not have the mandate of the party for that.

    2) Rahul may or may not become PM.
    My gut feeling is that he will work to strengthen the party but eventually may not opt for it.

    3) I do not rule out a wild card entry – Priyanka Gandhi

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat ………

    YHOOOOOooooo this is crazy !! Priyanka may be a nice good looking girl… but how can we entrust an entire nation to her,,, without experience….

    hope she is not stupid enough to fall for it!

    a) Rahul may not become the PM in a fit of nerves and certain private reasons… But then Digviansh will. The party may not like him,… but rahul trusts him.

    b) There is no one in the horizon which the royal family can trust. Sycophants exist… but in the end , it has to be a guy in their closed circuit. As they have short circuited MMS, Chidu and Pranabda, the choice narrows down to Rahul and digvinash…

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Prabhat

    A well-kown foreign busiessman once told me that he was in a dinner session with Gandhis (and others) — Priyanka told him she has never left/traveled out of India; he said that the family is afraid of an attack on her life. amd is happy to keep her out of sight…

    He did say she beats the brother in intellect, curiosity.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shoeb and Prabhat

    Robert Vadra has become a big businessman lately in “partnership” with DLF. he has purchaed vast tracts of land in Gurgaon and Rjasthan as well as two five star hotels. All this will come under spotlight.

    Hope she is intelligent enough to understand all this…

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Prabhat ..Vijay

    Although there is a tendency to “put down” our voters (illiterate, rural, they do not have a clue etc), one should not underestimate the true power of people… Nobody is a king or queen or prince for ever– Look what happened to Karunanidhi here– His party is dead..zilch.. Same thing will happen to Jagan next door after few years..Rahul is not different…

    Another thing to keep in mind is the demographics– 65% people were born long after Mrs gandhi’s killing and Rajiv’s killing.. History becomes relevant only if the progeny delivers — today, every day. Otherwise it is irrelevant,a nother asterisk, no different from a Kamaraj or Shastri, etc etc

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    I am sure Priyanka understands all these. Priyanka and Rahul have grown under the public scrutiny.

    Rahul might have resented about constantly being reminded of dynasty in his subconscious mind and might have thought of doing something about it.

    I guess that could be one reason why he is focussing so much on the party, while he could take the reign easily. And later, seeing his reluctance ( or some reason ) party workers may call for Priyanka. I think Priyanka is lot more fothright. She may be in the mould of Mrs. Indira Gandhi and a little ruthless like her.

    About her inexperience : When Rajiv took the reign, he was raw. More so because he was reluctant and was in a regular job situation. Priyanka has grown in political and family turmoil. I am sure Sonia and children bonded a lot more after Rajiv’s death. I am sure she is much closer to Sonia gandhi now and shares her political views and observations. I am sure she understands the present power equations. She has also seen how carefully Sonia created the power aura and the public outcome of Sonia’s actions. Practically, she is on OJT ! Like Sachin’s son travelling and watching his father from a close quarter. When he takes the crease formally he would be far comfortable than any other regular player.

    Big business : Having a 5 star hotel is no more something special, that too in collaboration with DLF. Delhi has lot more super rich than Vadra. So Vadra does not intimdate anybody with his new hotel or some land in gurgaon.

    I have a feeling there will be one more round of chance that will go for outsider. This time it may be chidambaram or kapil. Most probably chidambaram. This will help congress break the taboo of dynasty rule. Kapil may rebel. Digvijay may rebel for a different reason. But Sonia and Rahul can checkmate them.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    having a five star hotel is something special !! How many people on this blog qualify to own one?? :D

    Vadra may be special. He had humble beginings– nothing wrong with it– but he was chosen by DLF for some speccial reason to partner them.

    If you dig into history, KP SIngh, the DLF owner was given a special favour by Rajiv Gandhi– to get licences for colonisation in Hryana way back in 1982. He boasts about it even today.

    So if you are looking to own some five star hoels… and are lucky that your pop in law had helped the builder… it definatly does help.

    I hope Rabert Vadra is careful. Rahul has gone against the UP government’s land acquisition at 35 lakhs per acre. DLF got its alnd at less than 20 lackhs per acre after the Hooda government declared section4 .

    Since I dont want to kauch any personal attack against Priyanka– who by all acccounts seems to be a simple, well balanced person– I will not say anything about the land for hotels acquired by Vadra in rajasthan and the rates etc etc.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    K P Singh and DLF have been around for a long long time.

    Half the city ( Delhi ) has been built by DLF. And DLF surely brought prosperity to Gurgaon. In Delhi, you still have guys worth hundreds of crores and having a simple meal at Sagar Ratna, Moet or even at KakeDa dhaba.

    Delhi’s social circle has been always been very selective. Even Karishma Kappor found that hard way. So it’s not surprising friends in social circle eventually forming business partnership. We are just trying stoke a fire where there is none.

  • Dr D Mishra

    Binoy, I disagree, Kalmadi when in charge of CWG or national sports bodies, IS A PUBLIC PERSON.
    Very accountable
    It shook him when he was arrested, the fool had shown no insight- did not realise that India was changing while he slept. We wanted more
    During the CWG, he actually said that he had enormous experience and UK should pay him for helping in the Olympics in UK- people were INCREDULOUS HERE in UK
    In this country, Mohd AL Fayed, owner of Harrods brought down 2 MPs by giving them cash in brown envelopes. The amount – a piddly 5000 pounds, yes no typo here, only five grand
    If he was in the UK, stealing 100 crores rupess would get him 7-8 years in jail

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    Dr mishra

    The very foundation of CWG was based on corruption.

    Countries bribe through gifts and other services to the officials of various countries to get votes while trying to get the hosting of the games. The aspiring nation formally approves budget for this! That means India actually must have approved the budget for bribing officials of various countries while trying garner their support. Remember, London Mayor offering free hotel stay to FIFA officials to get the chance to host the cup ? That too is bribe !

    When the very basic foundation is based on corruption, the officials give feeling to the Govt. that one has to do all these. These are accepted norms. Slowly, the Govt. starts lowering the guard and corruption starts happening while conducting the games. The Govt. of the day starts focussing on the what the games would do to the hosting city in terms of tourism, flow of foreign exchange etc.

    Every official, in different sports bodies cutting across the party lines, practice corruption. The officials would inflate the travel bills, take spouse along, stay back in foreign countries for sight seeing etc.

    If you point out these things to people, they would exclaim are these things construe to be corruptions !

    If you ever get a chance to see the list of activities, as laid down by CVC, that can be construed as corruption, you will be amazed that there is hardly anybody who is not corrupt ! Perhaps even including you and me !

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Prabhat

    You are right..countries/cities/govts all deal in “levels” of corruption to land a major sporting deal–olympics, worldcup… CWG may be at the bottom, but even that needs some level of state corruption.

    I believe nobody will mind spouse travel, fancy meetings etc if the results were spectacular — stadium built on time, living facilities world class, the whole organization get appreciated by participants etc.. What ticks off people is the results being abysmal , and on the top oidf that the news about large scale milking —

    I am with Vinod on Mani iyer –people like him should be put in the shed.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Binoy

    Imagine Kalmadi approaching the Finance Ministry or even the Prime Minister proposing a budget approval so that he/IOA could bribe the foreign countries to get them voting in favour of India as the hosting nation !

    Practicing corruption from the day one ! Even while bidding for the CWG !!!

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    That is lobbying yaar… done for getting sports events to your country. Nothing more. I think we will need t broaden our outlook, rather than shout rape all the time…

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    You may have a point. May be a Kalmadi or a Modi ( IPL fame, not Gujrat CM ) is right for this kind of job rather than a Shreedharan of DMRC ! I wish CWG committee had a person like Sreedharan for supervising / leading execution of the projects ! We would have a different CWG alltogether.

    shan Reply:

    @Prabhat , the thing that really dismayed me was know brazenly the “underbelly” of india was on display. Like the child labour being used to install chairs and all in rags.
    Or take that joker BHANOT(most likely from haryana,if you go by the surname)
    Remember a south african racist swimmer made a derogatory remark about the spectators.
    When this was put to Bhanot on a press conference , he said “OH YES THERE ARE LOT OF MONKEYS IN THAT AREA”
    There is a reason I keep harping about Cow Belt

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    In over populated and relatively countries, issues of child labour would be there.

    At the risk of being politically incorrect, may i say it’s still better than letting children beg or indulge in crime !

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    Please read :

    In over populated and relatively poor countries, issues of child labour would be there.

  • vijay kumar

    @ Dr mishra and Prabhat

    now how would you rate the role of Mani Aiyar in the whole CWG story. Had he stayed on he would have destroyed India’s image worldwide by making a total mess. And the games woudl hae been airlifted to melbourne while Mani Aiyar would have used his best nglish to give a lecture to the world media that “we the people of the third world don’t need frivolous activites like sports and games…. ”

    I am saying this because he has emerged as a hero after CWG.

    In real life he is a buffoon, who survives by sycophancy. He made a mess as India’s counsel general in Islamabad not recogniszing the terror attacks smiling cobra gen Zia (now in jannat) was planning; he gets land alloted in different states under government ousing schemes. yet pretneds to be fighting for India…

    Is.nt inefficiancy worse than corruption?

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    We have to give him the credit for bringing in strategic thoughts and developing a pan world ambition while he was in charge of the Oil & Petrolium ministry. He understood that the Oil assets all over the World hold a strategic importance in the World geo-politics. Being a former diplomat, he understood the strategic importance of these assets from Africa to Europe. So a new paradigm got evolved what later came to be known as ” oil diplomacy”. He had officers from the MEA attached to his Oil assets dealing all over the World. It surely became a potent and strategic thought. India started both competing and collaborating with China while bidding for these oil assets. I think that was out-of-box thinking. Things started souring because of the overlapping authority, dual reporting and poaching of boundaries. Eventually, the conflicts between these ministry took toll on Mani.

    He definitely ushered in the “negative sentiment” while preparation of CWG was underway. This negative sentiment got fulled by outrageous reporting by our media, cut-paste-journalism and damaged the country badly.

    We had hotels ready with extra rooms, but all went empty. There was hardly any foreign tourists in Delhi ! All this infrastructure development was for nothing. The industry incurred heavy losses. The country got a huge bad name.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    You are spot on when conceding that Mani Aiyar caused at least 5-10000 crore revenue loss by giving india a bad name worldwide. The day he started shouting 70000 crores lost… was the day the Congress fortnes and UPA has started collapsing.

    Dont give him credit for anything positive in the oil Ministry. He would have just given a general speecch on the global need of oil strategy to some bureaucrats and nothing more. ONGC videsh existed before him and so were the other oil companies. Herre is a list of potentially disastorous decisions he was trying to forge in

    a) merging all OIl comapnies to make one giant dinosaurs. Already our Oil companies are huge and managemtn difficult. Mani Aiya like a true bureucrat would have loved to make one unmanagebale unionised giant.

    b) Trying to delay the KG basin because he wanted the Iran pakistan pipline. It was more important for him to give revenue to Pakistan for safeguarding the pipeline rather than let Indian sources of oil be discovered.

    I can give you a long list. But people will get bored out here… !

    In a nutshell. he is inefficiant and that is what leads to corruption…

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Guys I think no one beats Mani Aiyyar in hypocrisy and false hood. in NDTV today , he laid the blame squarely on the enterpreuners/CAPITALISM for corruption.This guy is a joker . Also Indians by nature talk loose. For the information of bloggers MANI AIYYAR ‘S DAUGHTER IS WELL SETTLED IN USA., the fountainhead of capitalism where she was sent by her father for studies.
    Now coming on corruption.WOULD SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS ILLEGAL MINING, is there a INSPECTORATE to oversee things.
    As for CWG , the only pathetic thing was it took the last day to complete the preparation. IN UK THEY FINISHED ONE YEAR AHEAD.(Haryana Builder NEED TO SUFFER FROM INFERIORITY COMPLEX, for that will be a starting point to IMPROVE ,rather than a pig head burying his head in s h i t.)
    Too much talk of corruption is no good , NEED TO ACT.
    MINOR TWEAKING OF THE COLONIAL SYSTEM , (which the colonialmasters have junked in their homecountry) , will DRASTICALLY reduce corruption.
    IF THERE WAS AN OPEN AUCTION OF 2G broadcast live on TV , where the bids are opened in front of camera , IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY SCOPE OF ANY BRIBE.
    Some degree of corruption is inevitable , like prostitution , demand and supply.
    take marks and spencer , the wares ARE ALL LAID OUT FREELY.Theft is inevitable . They actually make provision that 5% will be stolen ,on top of that they have security guards , and cctv cameras.
    BUT JUST TO PREVENT 5% they can’t change the display.
    Also what people miss is if you take all the money from ambani , birla , tata and distribute to ONE BILLION INDIANS, that money willbarely last one year .
    The fundamental thing is CREATING WEALTH,which the idiot Aiyyar seem to forget
    That wealth creation is also quantum jump in agricultural production by bringing indian agriculture from STONE AGE to the age of INDUSTRIAL SCALE FRAMING.
    same with each and every sector of economy.
    Coupled with this COMPULSORY ENGLISH MEDIUM EDUCATION FOR EVERY INDIAN will kick the s h i t out of the babus , and they will think twice before asking for bribe..

    So long there is effective vigilance that should be okay.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    screw people like Mani Iyeer– Look what this gentleman has achieved — forget abt money, but the sheer scope of transborder execution

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/world/asia/27tycoon.html

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    Adani is a great serial entrepreneur.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Yes, he is great.. head full of ideas…I pray the good Lord that we have more people like him to offset the other type!

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Binoy Hedge, THESE LINES ARE ALSO PERTINENT from that NYT article

    This nexus between tycoons and powerful politicians courses through the public-private relationship in India and forms the crux of a continuing debate on whether the rise of India’s billionaires is a sign of dynamism or cronyism.

    India’s billionaires control a considerably larger share of the national wealth than do the superrich in bigger economies like those of Germany, Britain and Japan. Among the Indian billionaires included on the most recent Forbes rich list, a majority have derived their wealth from land, natural resources or government contracts and licenses, all areas that require support from politicians.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan–

    Those comparisons are not apples to oranges.. We are wwhere US capitalism was during rockfeller/”robber barons” time. Listen, this game is only 15 yrs old..

    Obviously licenses etc are involved..So there is a govt involvement..Good thing is that it ois not tied to family..

    The robber barons of US – Rockfeller, Carnegie, Mellon, etc left behind unbelievable legacies that “repented” more than enough for any bad things they may ahve done — Unibversity of chicago, carnegie mellon university, and many many philanthrophic programs are the legacy of these great men; who were at one time “controlling” politicians.. Stuff happens..and stuff has to happen for greater good

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    When there is a sudden surge in economy, some people will get extra mileage for many reasons – either they were well prepared or just being close to the power corridor.

    Many people thought Ambanis would vanish once the license raj was over. But they grew only bigger. They have gone into areas where they did not have any core competency, yet have excelled with sheer power of execution. Patalganga project was executed in just 18 months when the world wide standard was 7 years ! Mukesh Ambani executed the telecom project faster and with 40% less capital than the top 5 consultants of the World estimated.

    But slowly, this wealth creation ability will be lot more democratised. New entrepreneurs will come up. You just read so much about Adani !

    Microsoft could over take IBM , Facebook did to Google what Google did to Microsoft and the latest darling is Apple !

    Here Ambanis overtook Tata. But TATA just came back hard under Ratan Tata’s leadership. Sunil Mittal hit all time high in just few years. Subroto Roy of Sahara made big in dusty towns of UP.

    Mittals, Tatas, Adanis are prawling all over the World.

    No it’s not just cronyism. It’s lot more than that.

    If the West still sceptical about the Indian entrepreneurship, then they are doing so at their own risk.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Prabhat , Indian enterprises are MERCANTILISM , of the era of adam smith and ricardo.Bewsa,
    WHAT WE NEED IS JAPANESE STYLE ENTERPRISE , THAT IS TECHNOLOGY INTENSIVE , RESEARCH AND INVENTION DRIVEN, not CRONY CAPITALISM , relying on PROTECTIONISM and POLITICAL PATRONAGE.
    Sunil Mittal had OUTSOURCED the technology aspect of its company , Okay, so long it can break into UK like vodafone and virgin have broken into indian market. I can’t see that happening.
    That will be the real test of the pudding.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    When Eiji Toyoda went to Detroit in 1950, he realised Ford was making 8000 cars a day while he was making just 40 a day ! Crown turned out to be lemon. Yet few decades later, you know where Toyota is !

    Indians have come up with great innovations in day to day business operations. Big brands have acknowledged. India has big research centres for TI, Adobe etc outside USA.

    Sunil Mittal’s outsourcing of IT services is a great strategic management decision. Not only that, he does not even buy telecom gears for his operations. Big telecom companies manage his circles and maintain the agreed SLA. This has helped Mittal to scale up his operation when he did not have the kind of captitals Ambanis have. Today, he manages only the brand and the revenue. Smart isn’t he ?

  • Ravi

    CORRUPTION – IS IT NEW, IS IT ENDLESS

    “You live in a society where everybody steals. Do you choose to steal? The probability that you will be caught is low … and, even if you are caught, the chances of your being punished severely for a crime so common are low. Therefore you too steal. By contrast, if you live in a society where theft is rare, the chances of your being caught and punished are high, so you choose not to steal.”

    – Mauro[1998, p.12].

    The issue of corruption has been in media for a while now. Even casual observation would suggest that corruption in India is not only widespread but seems to be ever increasing.

    But is it new?

    Kautilya talks about corruption as far back as in the fourth century B.C.

    All corruption is based on risk/return trade off.

    What is required is to increase the chances of being caught and the power to cease assets of the corrupt and their associates.

    It is easy if there is the political will to curb it.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    good points–agreed

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Prabhat/Vijay

    Can you explain what additional safeguards will be there in addition to the current scheme of Lokayukta (looks like many in karnataka including the CM have been nailed by the office) when Hazare’s demands are agreed to

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Binoy

    After sometime, everything loses its sheen. This is natural decaying process.

    A constable during British Raj commanded so much awe and respect. Today we sneer at them.

    Simple police and judiciary combination was enough to maintain certain sanity. Today, we think they are not adequate.

    What has really changed ? Not the institutions, but people.

    The institutional framework is still the same, but people manning them have changed alongwith the society in general. Nice guys don’t come first any more. People are looking for that X factor constantly to stay ahead and this has led to certain degree of chaos.

    People look for new things rather than fixing the old problems. Use and throw has become the standard norm. So if something is not working as per the expectation, find a new one.

    The call for Lokpal has been vocalised with an idea that it can solve all our problems !

    There was a call to prevent corruption at high places and making the public servants a little more accountable. Hence the idea of Lokpal was mooted. The draft for the Lokpal bill is being worked out by various groups for quite some time.

    While a group including Bhushans and Kejriwals were working on the Lokpal Draft at NAC under the leadership of Aruna Roy, they had agreed to almost all points except bringing PM’s office and Chief Justice of India under Lokpal. They still have same difference of opinion now even though the group has joined Anna to spearhead the movement. The scrutiny of MP’s inside the Parliament has been added to the list. The Govt. does agree that PM will come under scrutiny of Lokpal but will be prosecuted once he demits the office. Anna and team do not want that. Moreover, Anna and team want the whole bureaucracy even private sector under Lokpal. The Govt. thinks burdening Lokpal so much will lead to an inefficient Lokpal and the whole purpose will be defeated.

    For a moment you think of a situation – Could Hegde be effective if he was burdened with all corruption cases starting from Police to Municipal corporations to private organisations ?

    I am not sure if he could really come up with an effective report on illegal mining that has become the bone of contention today if he were burdened with responsibilities of investigating all corruption cases in Karnataka and also prosecute the accused!

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Prabhat , could you please enlighten me what is illegal mining.
    As for sparing the CGI and PM from the ambit of Lokpal, may i politely quote MAGNA CARTA
    written 1000AD, “THE KING IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW”

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    Though Shenoy has first hand experience, let me explain simplistically. Bellery, one of the poorest city is rich with iron ore. People just mine ores in the forest, usually exceeding the area assigned to them, so the state does not get any benefit. The administration turns a blind eye. The miners have to pay Reddy brothers for carrying out these illegal mining in Bellery. It happens everywhere. It is just the sheer scale of this illegal mining has drawn attention of public in recent years.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    The Govt. has allowed PM’s office to be under scrutiny. Only difference is that the PM can be prosecuted once he demits the office. I am looking forward to the reactions of all Political Parties to this bill.

  • Ravi

    Vijay

    I noticed that you posted some anecdotal observations addressed to every one, with me specially named. No one responded to it, so I hope you will not mind me responding, even if it is late as well as out of context.

    I think the point you were trying to make is that when some of your friends were applying for Research Scholarships, they expressed interest in subjects such as “incest”. To increase their chances of success – you believe – they LIED either totally or by means of exaggeration.

    You – if it is true – resent this because instead of painting a rosy picture of India, it exposes its shortcomings. You doubt their existence and even if they do exist, then your preference is to keep such things in-house and not bring them in to open, particularly in front of Gora People.

    I think this is a grossly cynical view. Could it not be the case that Incest is widespread in India and that your friend genuinely wished to research on it?

    (I can post learned articles on incest in India, but you would then label me as a Pakistani and B.V. Shenoy would start a petition to ban me from this forum, Dr Mishra will castigate me as a pseudo seculars in his next post about the benefits of sailing in troubled waters and Balwinder would hold a poll on me politicising incest)

    What ever the problem, it does not go away simply because you wish to brush it under the carpet.

    Your friend would not have exposed anything new, people know these issues exist not just in India, but probably in all societies.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    When I wrote the blog piece on “the psychology of Angana Chatterji’s’ a small mini discussion did follow.

    I was just trying to emphasis a certain issue. That many a time Indians rush to the whiteman highlighting a problem in their house and assuming that the whiteman is the dispassionate headmaster of their school who is going to say, “yes boy… you are right… the brown and black natives are still savages…” :D

    That is what nirad Choudahry did. And set an example for many scholorship seekers in India– in the field of humanities and arts.

    Since I lived that age… I know that diginity for the Indian internaitonally only came in the late ninties when Indian IT guys and the tecchnocrats and managers created a new image.

    You could be literally shooed of Selfridges by a bored– you dont have the cash dear, look–in late ninties (maybe my fault as I was in my levi’s and T Shirt). Today you are welcomed…

    because it is all abolut preserving your diginity and talking eye to eye and NOT about crying “rape, incest, poverty, caste… give me a scholorship for that…”

    As far as incest and sexual mores goes… my view is that the west is more likely to have it. Inspite of having a huge lot of friends and acquaintances who happen to be American or Europeans, I still am not able to come to terms with sex being treated as a matter of recreation and not of procreation ! :D

    A few months back I was in Shanghai, dining out with a British friend. He was there because he was working for a Chinese comapny. And I representing an Indian buyer, on a technical inspection of fabricated chimney’s (how exciing ! ) Both of us were foreigners in a land which did not knnow our language.

    At 36, he was worried that his girl in london was not willing to get aborted.

    i was advissing him to have the baby, and be a proud father.

    “So much of england is now born, because of the sperm which got away, ” he sighed.

    I fell down from my chair laughing :D :D

    One way this was a classic British understatement.

    In another it somehow told a story of a generation which was running for sex… but not for responsible parenthood.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Oh so all indian males conserve it for the wedding night , just like all indian giris keep it intact as a present for the wedding night.. This is like the BHANOT joker of CWG,PEOPLE LIVING IN GLASS HOUSES , SHOULD NOT PLAY WITH STONES.

    India has the HIGHEST NUNMBER OF AIDS INFECTION (also known as HIV+ve) IN THE WORLD.
    Wakey Wakey Builder Tera building gira jai.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Certain UK resident is suffering from incest-infected brain.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I am standing in a very very long dole queue, waiting for my hafta, and therefor am unable to provide a considered and detailed response, rozi roti takes priority.

    Suffice to say, I disagree with you on almost every count.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @ravi, incest is present in india, no need to label you pakistani , for my feeling is it is MORE PREVALENT amongst muslims. certainly there is PAEDOPHILIA , JUST WATCH AGAIN MIRA NAIR’S FILM
    MONSOON WEDDING , about a hindu/sikh PUNJABI family.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    @ Everyone;
    My alert is taking shape, not only in India but in Daily times, Khalid’s cartoon depicts Manmohan and probably some bureaucrat in Foreign ministry, lying down with an arrow through their heart.
    Shisha e dil main rakha hai o sitamgar tera Pyar.
    Jab jara gardan jhukayi, dekh li tasweer e yaar.
    How many arrows they have in their quiver??
    Balvinder paaji!!! (He He).

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    pak- govt dealimgs – illicit atomic deals..

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/08/world/asia/20110708_KHAN_LETTER_DOC.html

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Benoy;
    some time in eighties, when I read that a brigadier of pakistani Army has been detained in US with restircted items, related with nuclear energy, it was apparent that pakistani army is in full charge of nuclear smuggling along with narcotics smuggling in USA and world. Russian presence in Afghanistan, forced USA to ignore these transgrssions. US thought that pakistan will never be able to assemble a bomb, despite of these attempts, they did not know, how shatir these pakis are with theft, and all other illegal things. They do chori and seenajori.
    late lesson for them(US) but now as things are unraveling, it is good to see that shadow play is coming into open.

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Binoy and Dr Pankaj
    Interesting link.
    Worship of naked power, esp in the service of Islam, is in the DNA of Pak society
    On my visits to Pakistan, I am always fascinated by their deification of Ghazni, Taimur etc
    Aurangzeb is almost holy, that he stitched skull caps personally is a fact that is strangely taught to every school child in Pakistan as an example of his piety
    The same mentality exists today- they hanker for the lost military glories of those years

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy , It’s a tad late for the yanks to wake up from their slumber.India had been screaming its heart out in 80’s , but uncle sam being such a d i c k head decided to look otherwise. The chicken is coming home to roost.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    QUOTING FOREIGN AUTHORS””””””””””””
    Could I recommend a book published by Penguin India- Kautilya Chanakya: Arthashastra- translation in English by LN Rangrajan
    The original had 15 books and 150 chapters – covering everything a king (now govt ? ) should know. His treatise, way back in 300 BC, emphasised for the first time ever that creation of wealth is the first duty of the state. In that he predated the famous ‘Wealth of nations’ by Smith of 1700’s by about 2000 years !!

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    KALMADI AND CHANAKYA””””””””
    why do I mention Arthashastra here, because way back in 300 BC, Chanakya had stated quite clearly that x% of funds given by the treasury will be eaten up by corrupt officials on the ground.. And while he emphasised ‘danda’ or punishment for those caught, he was matter of fact about corruption and factored it into the costs
    Even the Chinese commies with their death sentences for mega corruption have not been able to do away with corruption.. Maybe they need to read Arthashastra and be a bit relaxed
    Yes, Kalmadi, in the time of Chanakya, would have faced banishment from the kingdom and / or a long spell inside

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Indian community in general, and some bloggers here, are always quoting foreigners mainly of the white Anglo-Saxon variety, in a very starry eyed obsequeous way
    It is my life’s mission to open their eyes to our own treasures
    S W A A B H I M A A N
    What is interesting is the amount of free travel in those days. If I remember correctly Chanakya was a Keralite brahmin
    That should make GOPI THOMAS and RAJU KURIEN happy

    [Reply]

  • shan

    My mission is life is to derobe the hypocrites who keep shouting about swabhimaan , yet avail anglosaxon citizenship at the first opertunity, who decided to leave the his swabhimann and that of his country , in the toilet to flushed as soon the plane took off the runway.
    The same swabhimann is a tad misplaced, Adam Smith’s book may be titled Wealth of Nations , but swabhimaan intact if one reads it , it speaks the exactly opposite.It says the wealth of nations is the result of CUMULATIVE wealth generated by the individuals of that nation. It also says this private wealth is not a self serving mission , it profoundly affects the betterment of the people of the state.
    He gave the example of the butcher , who rears the sheep slaughters it , prepares it by skinning and make portions and also disposes the offals.All this process of rearing sheep which is wealth creation to waste disposal and looking after animals , all benefit the society.

    Oh yes , perhaps panditji would like to consult the Charak samhita and prescribe some JARI BOOTI , rather than consult anglosaxon treatise in treating a patient of Epilepsy, or lets defumigate my operation theatre with sulphur , instead of positive pressure ventilation for ventilation of the OT and HEPA filters.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Shan
    At that time Sushruta may have been one of the most advanced surgeons in the world, today it is someone else. I thought even a child would understand that
    To think that just last month I requested many on this blog to stop bashing you
    Blog constructively, dont snipe at my heels.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    Shan
    Sushruta was one of the most advanced surgeons in the world at that time, today it is someone else, I thought even a child would understand that
    To think that on at least 3 occasions in the last 6 months I have requested bloggers to stop bashing you
    Blog, just dont snipe at my heels

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Could you explain to me what is attention seeking syndrome which certain spoiled kids have. I think we can then decipher a lot of problems on this blog :D

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    My dog… snipes at my heels when he needs attention….

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    OUCH, brilliant

  • Ravi

    Dr Mishra

    सत्य ऊँचा है के स्वाभिमान ऊँचा है

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Ravi

    Sorry if I distrubed you as you stood in the dole que. The dole is a wonderful British institution. I think India should learn from it to proovide life with dignity, in case work disappears.

    As you mentioned that you disagree with me on every count. Does not that make life wonderful?

    Absolute opposing views on this rollicking blog….

    My basic assertion remains, that preserving self dignity is essential in case we need to think at a global level. Today India is an aid giver, rahter than a taker. The change of mindset has helped us look at the globe differently.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Where was that self dignity when the CWG games wasn’t finished till the last day.AND PAN PHEEK(spit) all over the walls of houses in athelete’s village,. ALSO WHERE WAS SELF DIGNITY WHEN CHILD LABOUR WAS SHOWN PUTTING UP CHAIRS IN CWG GAMES and the entire world saw it in TV.How much self dignity can one detect in FEMALE FOETICIDE and KHAP SPONSORED MURDERS OF COURTING BOYS AND GIRLS.

    This business of self dignity sounds like the islam and “defending my faith from attack”.

    CONFIDENT PEOPLE DON’T NEED TO ADVERTISE THEIR DIGNITY , it ought be obvious to onlookers.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    Well said mate

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Now that the London olymipics are around the corner, prostitutes, call girls, call boys would be advertising their wars in all papers with full gusto.

    Selling the reproductive faculties for a few bob is about selling human dignity. :D

    This is rape, incest and poverty of values rolled into one.

    IThat is my opinion.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    So what is your point.

    That British society is not perfect??

    Who said it was?

    Further more simply because B is doing bad things should not be used as a excuse to allow A to bad things.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    My point is some people take dlight in throwing stones at India and Indians, without acknowledgin that equally bad things are happenign at home :D

    Ravi Reply:

    Bad things happen every where.

    Is that not the case?? Even in Idylic Norway.

    My point was that if some one – any one – points at something not quite right in India, then rather than defending it, or discussing it, or saying “you are wrong” or here is the reason WHY, etc. Saying that there are bad things on your side too, is not the best way to debate.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    I debate without getting a Nirad Chaudhary type an inferiority complex. That the whiteman is superior and I must prostrate myself before them.

    I am not willing to take midless allegations against what I stand for in a debate for I am quite capapble fo giving it back. Neither do I let anybody be sly by trying to typecast Hindus, SIkhs, Christains/ Muslims or any other religion in India in a certain way to make us feel inferior.

    As you know half the bloggers on this site are NRI’s. Most are here for a chat or generally concerned about events happneing here. One feels gr8 to see Indians doing well all over the world and still in touch with India and concerned abut events here…

    But only two have this feeling of being superior since they have foreign citizens. I feel sad for those two . :D :D

    Because the time the NRI was far superior, materially has gone. When the NRI uncle would open his suitcase and his poor Indian cousins would stare goggle eyed to has gone as all those goods are no available in India

    I think you need to acknowledge this truth… :D :D

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    Firstly, I do not believe that there is any one here who puts forward a fact/opinion or an argument with the aim of belittling India. For that would be defeating the purpose. They may wish to oppose YOU personally rather than India.
    No one here has made the point the White People are superior. The point that has been made is the western thought process is scientific and rational rather than ideological and philosophical. Therefore, in certain matters most sensible research has been conducted by Europeans and they have – at least in the last two millennia – added to the body of human knowledge.

    When you mention two NRIs who position themselves to be superior to Indians then I am assuming that I am one of them. Then let me assure you I do not feel superior to any one. However, one could actually turn the argument on its head and say there are three Doctors here and don’t they just rub that in your face.

    I am not the NRI uncle who brought you the Bri Nylon Shirt from Algate East. Though I recognise the type you mean.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    My friend we are all standing in one or another dole queue, the difference is in the paymasters.

    I think the recurring theme in all of your posts is the feeling you harbour that Hindu’s have a pressing need to recover their self pride स्वाभिमान to the same level which they had prior to Mulsim attacks, the Mogul and the British Empires. You see all LIBERAL/INCLUSIVE ideology as something which is taking us Hindus away from this restoration of pride project.

    To underline this people here time and again quote the valour of Shiva Ji and Sardar Patel
    So liberal interpretation of our History, development of social infrastructure so that we can more effectively deal with farmer suicides, incest, etc are seen as disciplines which draw attention to pride स्वाभिमान damaging aspects of Indian society which damage our.

    That is what is determining your perception of your Uni friends, Liberal journalists and other people of that ilk.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    When you said you were standing in the dole que I did not take a swipe at you. In fact i sympathised and tried to say that at least the English state provides for its citizens thru dole when work disapears.

    Let me re-assert. I have a basic philosphy ( which you may think is wrong) that self help is the first step. And for that you need self pride, even in bad times.

    I was just trying to emphasis a certain issue. That many a time Indians rush to the whiteman highlighting a problem in their house and assuming that the whiteman is the dispassionate headmaster of their school who is going to say, “yes boy… you are right… the brown and black natives are still savages…”

    This is what Angana (shaking her ang for ISI) is doing.

    But the whiteman is perplexed. This is not the whiteman of early 20th century, who was an imperialist and treated the world as his burden :D

    So even if you mess up this national diginity thing with farmer suicides and getting Shivaji and Patel into it, I would only say you have missed the point or deliberatley creating confusion.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I am a working man, the dole queue was symbolic.

    मंज़र इक बुलंदी पर और हम बना सकते
    अर्श से उधर होता काश के मकान अपना

  • Dr D Mishra

    All civilisations at their peak, reached there, because of swabhimaan
    They never closed their doors to ‘mishran’- admixture of ideas, or to ’shastrartha’- discussions and debates
    Most neutral and even Chinese historians agree that from 300 BC to about 800 AD, the hindu civilisation gave a lot to the Chinese. But even as Fa Hein came to live with us for 10 years, he did not lose his swaabhimaan. Not even when he carted hundreds of books away
    I thought even a child could understand that

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    the subsequent letters exchanged between Fa Hein and his former hindu tutor should be mandatory reading for the Indian and Chinese mandarins
    It was full of grace, manners and affection
    It was the salute of one great civilisation to another

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    actually that dignified exchange could also be mandatory reading for some of our bloggers

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Vijay, behind your light hearted banter and the numerous smileys, you do display a glint of Sardar Patel in your nationalism
    A lot of other people here also show steel- Shoeb, Raju, Binoy, Balwinder praaji (where is he nowadays) Rajiv etc etc
    I think of them as the Sardar Patel gang
    In the real world we do have one SARDAR PATEL who I respect hugely- JUSTICE HEGDE

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    If Jingoism is made of steel that you are right.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Dr Mishra

    Thank u for ur kind words.

    Just for my information, how good a swimmer do you need to be to do sailing???

    I am swimming pool swimmer– reasonably good– does it place me at some disadvantage at sailing as say compared to someone who can swim in rivers and seas??

    Or if you have a life jacket– to know ocean swimming or not to know it– does not matter…

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    TRUTH and SELF PRIDE

    Early Hindu civilisation achieved world prominance not as a result of स्वाभिमान but becasue of intelligent discourse, search of purity of thought, complex ideas, truth and other intellectual pursuits rtaher than debased emotional feelings such as that of स्वाभिमान

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    u r right ravi… it is the pursuit ..for our rishis it was vasudhaiva kudumbakam… oi physical coumtry

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Ravi,

    I agree with you.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~ The SWABHIMANIS as compared to the CHAMCHAAS ~~ :D :D ~~

    At times it is better to turn the gaze away from oneself to others to get the message.

    Two countries, in the world suffered badly at the hands of the Americans in the last century. Japan and Philipines.

    The Japanese got nuked at the end of World War II. They fought back with better strategy, technology and capturing the world markets with their products. They maintained their dignity.

    The Filipinos dont even know how many of them were killed by the Americans and the Europeans. It is not even part of their own history books. Gore Vidal states in his essays that at least 5 million were killed…

    HOwever today Filipinos still prostrate themselves to the West. Filipino women are available as call girls all over.

    And they had an election in which one candidate stood with a single point agenda.

    That Phillipines should become the 51st state of the US. The US was scared that how they would tackle this one in case he won. Which he almost did…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Let the light of bengal renaissance shine over Haryana(builder).
    Some history tutorial
    JAPAN WAS NEVER COLONIZED IN ITS 2000YRS KNOWN HISTORY.
    The name PHILLIPINES is after KING PHILIP of spain , who colonized philippines for 600 yrs.
    This was followed by AMERICAN COLONISATION CIRCA 1920-1956
    That was followed by turning philippines into an offshore brothel by the stationed GI’s in the american base. That base has gone. BUT JAPANESE SWABHIMAN hasn’t been able to get rid of AMERICAN BASES IN OKINAWA and the rape of japanese school girls by american GI’S.Nor that SWABHIMAN has been able to reclaim Kuril islands SNATCHED by russians after ww2.
    As to phillipino girls being call girls, THERE IS A PUCCA HINDU COUNTRY ACROSS THE RAXAUL
    BORDER in bihar , from where thousand of HINDU girls are transported to the brothels of bombay , much in demand for their fair skin, and compelled because of grinding poverty at that place.
    That philippines became CATHOLIC may be a reason why it could not progress, thus mired in superstition , oppression , like islamic and hindu countries. That India came this far is because of fact IT DID NOT CHOSE TO BECOME HINDU(read raw sewage caste dictated) NATION , but a SECULAR LIBERAL DEMOCRACY.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Word perfect answer.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    So i should surmise that in case you are white, anglo saxon and protestent you are the epitome of evolution??

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay haryana kumar, a polite suggestion , please read a book by the great german sociologist MAX WEBER , the book itself is called THE PROTESTANT ETHICS, you will see the light of the day , if you keep your eyes fixed to the book.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Hitler was the first guy to follow the book… and Nirad CHaudhary was the last :D

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay kumar, then why i did i attempt to cast pearls, should have recommended something to suit your taste , like harold robbinsand BETSY, or chacha chowdhri comics

  • Dr D Mishra

    India – Pakistan: Divided by Jinnah, United by Hina…….now lets Wagah Wagah

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Berlusconi said- please can I join the peace summit
    he thought wagah wagah was hindi for bunga bunga

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Don’t drop the guard so fast doctor sahab. Even though her uncle Ghulam Mustafa Khar had good links wiht RAW, Hina has not shown any inclination for dropping the Jehadi agenda.

    Even if she wants to the message has to come from the army and the politicians. On the other hand, the society os only gettingmore and more radicalised. There are high chances of the army revolting again…

    So watch this space for more action.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Dr Mishra

    Our forefathers were not good about recording about themselves – as you know family tree for them was universal tree.

    There are many theories about Chanakya’s birth place and childhood; one theory being he is from the South, near the present Cochin area. But the dominant theory is that he is from Pataliputra (present day Patna).

    The “kerala” birth theory may have been a conjecture based on other related findings/history. All of Bhasa’s manuscripts were unearthed in Travancore; the only continuous (till now) 2000 plus years of Sanskrit theater and performnce of Bhasa’s creations – Swapna Vasavadatta, karna Bhara, Mrichkatika etc- is in the old Kerala art form of Kootiyattam.

    Since both were around the same period, there is apossibility that they were from the same part too, and even related. It is also possible that there may be a linkage between them and Adi Sankara, about whose birth palce (kalady near Ernakulam/Thrissur) theere is no confusion. Centuries later, in 1400s, a series of famous mathematicians – Madhava, Somayaji, Bhattathiri etc also will emerge from the same region.

    There are Namboodiri families in kerala practising “pre Hindu” Vedic traditions unbroken for 3000 plus years.. — for example, Agnicayana, or “Athirathram”, the greatest and holiest ritual of the vedic religion, has been an unbroken 3000 plus year tradition among ancient Namboodiri families, although in the north, it sort of ceased to exist with the rise of Budhism. However, the pratice got restarted under the Gupta empire.

    Like many other things, it required a Westerner to document and communicate about this three thouand year old prctice of ‘fire ritual”..A group of schoars led by Professor Fredrick Staal (Frits Staal) , Prof of Philosophy and Sanskrit at Univ of California at Berkley, observed the practice in a family in a Kerala village called “Panjal” and did a documentary in 1975 documnting the 12 day ritual.
    So, it is possible that Chanakya came from a family of “old” and “new” practices and knowledge of the South; May be Nanda was not keen on the “old” part; and Maurya (being a little “Swabhiman”) embraced him.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Gopi

    Fantastic, you have added to my knowledge.

    However, I hope you are making the point that it it takes a white man to provide an organised discrption of our own religion, then so be it and that it in no way damages my स्वाभिमान if I was to accept his wisdom.

    After all he is a learned man

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ravi–

    Learning and knowledge, wherever it comes from, should be accepted and respected.

    Dr Staal, in this particular case, just documented and showed to the outside world about a 3000 plus years’ of unbroken “vedic” practice; nothing about a religion.(he has done a lot of publications on indian philosophy, also on religion).

    I do not understand what you mean by an “organized description of our religion” .. Something which is a continuous thought process and “not organized” cannot be fit into a “how to specific” script

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    My sentiments exactly.

    However, what intrigued me is you mention of Pre-Hindu Vedic Rituals.

    I was under the impression that Rig veda in its oral form existed for 3000s of years BC and then it was formalised around 1000 yrs BC.

    However the people who chanted it, composed it and subsequently recorded it were all Hindus (or as we term them today).

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    sorry could not help it
    Shan just said-
    shan Reply: July 29th, 2011 at 5:34 pm=let the light of bengal renaissance shine over Haryana
    ”””””””””””””””””””
    I remember Balwinder praaji had once said tongue in cheek=
    ‘ Shan, please shine that same light up your own backside first- rumour has it your brain is tucked near there somewhere ‘ hehe
    ””””””””””””””””’
    sorry, dont shoot the messenger but you have to admit it was very funny

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Pandit ji , now shine it into your posterior ,this balwinder sandhu’s biradri and SWABHIMAN in full swing in AMRIKA

    Americas
    Indian origin Nikki Haley calls herself ‘white’
    Press Trust Of India
    Washington, July 29, 2011
    First Published: 17:05 IST(29/7/2011)
    Last Updated: 17:12 IST(29/7/2011)

    Democrats have accused North Carolina’s Indian-American governor Nikki Haley of listing her race as “white” in her voter registration form in 2001 and playing on it for political convenience. Haley created history in 2011 as she was sworn in as first women governor of North Carolina. She
    is also the first governor of Sikh heritage.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you should be happy there are others of your ilk in the US too.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Gopi/ Dr. Mishra;
    yes, it was informative to know that probably, Chanakya came from area, which is now known as Kerala.
    Some factors definitely point towards, ancient karala being a place of vedic rituals and their practices, being continued in comparatively peaceful surroundings, with minimal disturbance from foreign influence. God’s own country, as ascribed it to be created by Parshuram. Namboodaris are Bhargav brahmins, as Parshuram was, being in the line of Bhrigu rishi.
    kalaripattu, kathakali, Mohiniattam are some of the dance practices, in their pure form from ancient times. it is said that kalaripayattu is, world’s oldest and very effective martial art training. Much celebrated chinese martial arts, also traces their origin from an Indian monk, who taught unarmed combat to chines disciples, when they complained that, being monks, they become easy targets of thugs and miscreants.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji, Gopi, Dr.Mishra,

    My own “belief” is that Chanakya belonged to Mangalore, which is at the northern tip of Kerala. When he was on a yatra of theerth-sthals, he became interested in the Maurya story and settled there, only to later help them establish an empire.

    His other family members continued to stay in Mangalore, (known in Kerala as Mangalapuram) and Chanakyas later came to be known as SHENOYS.

    Aayi baath samaz mein?

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shenoy–

    Shenoy can very well eb a derivative of “Chanakya”… Chanakya – Chanayya- chanoy – shanoy – shenoy

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    Hope you are not serious, if you are, then I will be very scared to rub you on wrong side. It is said that Chankya would put the-MATHA_ (buttermilk) in roots to eradicate his tormentors and he would not tie his -Choti-, till he has finished his enemies. Mujhe baksho. Ha.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    A branch of the shenoy later became chinoy, how about that

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay, Dr. Mishra
    In continuation to above,
    reading these facts and feeling happy and proud of them is SWABHIMAN-. That feeling of knowing your glorious past, which should take away, a feeling of inferiority/ inadequacy, is SWABHIMAN. Some body is confusing -SWABHIMAN- with-ABHIMAN. Feeling good about renaissance in certain part of India should be considered as -SWABHIMAN-. Reiterating it countless time, just to denigrate some one is-ABHIMAN- for me.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    My understanding is that स्वाभिमान is self respect or taking pride in ones own achievements.

    अभिमान on the other hand is simple pride. An Indian can be proud that Stephen Hawking despite his illness has achived success in Physics.

    So I not sure as to who is confused and who is not.

    Any way my point was that either of these emotions are not waht made or will made India great.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Said correctly.Just expand this definition, self respect is first step, feeling happy for your alma mater and its achievement is again justifiable, feeling good about achievement of people of your city and next people of your country, past or present. Yes, I am proud of Stephen Hawking, I am also proud of Hellen Keller, as a part of humanity, I am also proud of achievement of human race, which progressed so much in last few thousand years only. Could not understand, why I should restrict this to MY ACHIEVEMENTS ONLY.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    That is the difference between स्वाभिमान and अभिमान

    स्वाभिमान can lead to arrogance and स्वाभिमान not.

    Any I dont think we are miles apart here and certainly not the 500 miles Dr Mishra is too afraid to call out.

    Ravi Reply:

    I meant abhiman as not leading to personal arrogance

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Exactly Ravi;
    there is a fine line between Swabhiman and Abhiman. And wise people should be ever alert, that Swabhiman may not turn into Abhiman, which is root cause of fall of many empires and persons.

  • vijay kumar

    @ Pankaj

    I think the essence for any country or civilization to rise remains swabhimaan. And critical anlaysis of itself.

    As you rightly pointed out flase abhiman can lead to a fall… as we have seen with many an empire..

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay,
    in answer to your post, three doctors have been mentioned, who rub this in your face?? I was scratching my head and tried to recall them and thought, OMG, I could be one of them. Do not recall, when I have rubbed it on somebody, that look you illiterate, I am a doctor. Practically, everybody has given hint that from what background they are and how their thinking is affected by that. except for very few people, about whom, we know next to nothing. Employed/ unemployed, IT background, banker, statisticians, PhDs, whatever.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Two NRIs have been put in the dog house by Vijay.

    Three doctors spent a significant time discussing who of three was senior and what the appropriate behaviour for a Junior Doctor is. Etc etc.

    However, these groups are not mutually exclusive.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    I think Ravi mentioned that three docotrs are rubbing HIM the wrong way. And not me.

    I am delighted to be in conversation with you and Dr Mishra.

    I dont know why Ravi made it sound the other way !!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    I don’t know why you waste time on this terrorist fake-Ravi.

    Anyway this swabhimaan thing is amusing when 70% of Indian population survives on Rs.20 a day. I guess a can of coke costs close to Rs.35 in India.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    It is not for the vicarious pleasure, I engage with him. A different perspective is stimulating. And that add spice to the discussion.
    Anyway, where you have been? saw you on different blog.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I am taking a break as there are some pressing issues at work..Enjoy your debates.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    Again I think we are mixing two things, Abhimaan and Swabhiman. It has nothing to do with present condition. You can not have Abhiman or put it differently, one should never have Abhimaan, whether, rich, poor, literate, illiterate. Swabhiman is a condition of mind, which should help you to withstand adversity and your even extreme adverse condition, should not make you loath your self. A very poor person, though may not be able to purchase coke, but will feel,If no coke, no problem, I will use cold water but will not feel inferior to that guy, who is drinking coke and making a show of it. This show is Abhiman here. sorry for the long post.I will leave this here, no more Abhiman or Swabhiman for me.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Rajeev,

    I expected such reply from you only. A brutely honest person – unlike Shan who is also brutely honest but he enjoys insulting Indians – Welcome back .

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    “Abhiman” “swabhiman” etc are concepts that have to be configured perfectly -otherwise we will witness situations like Nazi germay or Nanking rapes done by the other superior race Japanese.

    Indian rishis did not speak for a people of a partcular prescribed faith; they spoke about universality of man and non-man, life and mrithyu, happiness and unhappiness, evolution and resolution etc..

    They, before anybody else in the modern or ancient world uttered marvelous concepts such as “Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavandu” (let everybody everywhere be happy) , “Vasudhaiva Kudumbakam” (world is my family) ; OHm Shanti, shanti, shanti (let there be peace or guide me to peace). Let us be anchored in those positive vibes.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi,

    your recent posts have immensely enriched most of us. Keep it up.

    To add to the information about how our ancestors thought about the smallness of the human being in comparison to the brahmanda, and also thought of entire humanity, here are three immortal lines of prayer to Brahman, from the Upanishads:

    ASATOMA SADGAMAYA – LEAD US FROM FALSEHOOD TO TRUTH
    TAMASOMA JYOTIRGAMAYA -LEAD US FROM DARKNESS TO LIGHT
    MRITYORMA AMRITAMGAMAYA-FROM DEATH TO IMMORTALITY

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Thanks, Shenoy.

    Obviously, in Western countries, these will be reserached, classified, and “myths” will be built (like Washington cutting tree)

    There is a probability/possibility that Chanakya may be from the South, a Namboodiri like Adi Sankara. Nobody has reserahed how/why Bhasa’s manuscripts were unearthed in a Travancore village. Was Bhasa from the erstwhile Kerala region? It looks either he was from there, or he had a tremendous influence/following there, as evidenced by the only continuous 2000 plus yer old Sanskrit drama theater/performance “Kootityattam” in Kerala. Kootiyattam is exclusively Bhasa’s dramas like Swapa Vasavadatta; and is performed by subset of Namboodiris called Chakyars. This is the only Sanskrit “theater” in India that has been there for milleniums.

    Is it possible that Bhasa and may be his next generation Chanakya were from the same region etc etc…??

    When we talk Abhiman and swabhiman, I would think that if we were true swabhimanis, we would spend energy and money on reseraching our past ….. how may Indians know about the mathematical geniuses like Madhava, Somayaji?etc of Madhava of Sangaragama mathematics school? That they have solved and put fondation for many modern calculus theories? And how suddenly it stopped and disappeard in 1600s ? And suddenly a mathematical awakening started in the West in 1600s? Keep in mind the Dutch came to Cochin land in 1600 and conquered and controlled a large part around the present day Cochin.

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    ABHIMAAN, SWAAAABHIMAAAN- A CONFESSION””””””””””””

    Having read the pulse of the bloggers by now, I sometimes throw in ‘phuljaris’ like abhiman-swabhimaan.
    Some are happy and wave it around like a diwali cracker
    Some get burnt by it, ouch !!
    ””””””””””””””””’
    Vijay, you are in error AGAIN. Of the two bloggers you mentioned, only one is an NRI. The other is neither ‘I’ nor ‘NR’- he may be within 500 miles of where you are
    paheli or phuljari, zaraa boojho to yaaron

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shame on you Dr Mishra

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    500 miles…. can take me to Tibet, nepal, China (?) and the one and only———/ :D

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kuamr, Dr.Mishra and Pankaj ji,

    I think, of the three doctors being referred to here only one is a fake, the only thing suggesting his being a ‘doctor’ is his doctored degree/s. He spends sixteen to eighteen hours every day here. I think he has taken the title of the blog “separated at birth” in its literal sense and cannot bear the separation for long.

    I don’t think the other two doctors have no reason to be pareshaan!

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    correction: I don’t think the other two doctors have any reason to be pareshaan!

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I have already clarified… I never mentioned three doctors. Ravi did.

    In fact I had said that it was a pleasure to interact with NRI’s doing well outside yet in touch with what is happening here.

    My words can be matched….

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Just the day when Hina Khar was in India, 1 officer and 1 soldier was killed on LoC, so much for peace process.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Prabhat

    jindal steel owned by Congressman jindal’s family is behind the kickbacks given to Yeddurappa family’s trust.

    Should we forgive the Congress as the top leaders are fair and lovely?

    Just wanted a humble opinion…

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Actually you should question BJP and Yeddi for so much for their swabhimaan !

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Because of Yeddi’s abhimaan, BJP’s swabhimaan is at stake today ( 29th July 2011).

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    I also forgot to mention :

    If the money bag of BJP, reddy brothers can do business with Pakistan, then Yeddi doing a deal with Jindals is surely a lesser crime.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Vijay, Pankaj, Shenoy and others,
    Did you all read Swamy’s outbursts on DNAINDIA? The article was offensive to muslim minority. The NCM (of which Sharma is a part) is planning to issue a notice to Swamy for inciting hatred for minority.

    I don’t agree with Swamy’s views expressed in this article but I found it very similar to that of Islamists and kind of extracted from Quran. I find it amusing that muslims who themselves are fascists and supermacists find such uttering offensive. They practice exactly what Swamy proposes, in all muslim countries including moderate Indonesia.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    When I am extremely angry with terrorists, such ideas come in. But these ideas are neither practical nor desirable.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Gopi;
    you used word rape as expression of superiority,. I am not contradicting you, or I am not raising this for tittilation. Why people commit rape? It is an act of maximal violence, just short of murder or it could be even worse as victim is condemned to live with shame and guilt. These effects are utilized, when organized rapes are commited as suggested by you, Japanese and Nazi Germany, or in recent times in East Pakistan. It was not to show superiority but to inflict punishment. Another aspect could be just release of sexual tension. Remember a story long time back, either it was Chauranghi- by Shankar or one of his short stories. when a bhadralok, middle aged, mahila, somehow, found herself, cornered by two urchins, in their early teens, who tried to molest her, acccomodated them for penetration more out of sympathy than for pleasure. another aspect of rape.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Pankaj– I did not mean in that sense..What I meant was “swabhimn” can go crazy like Nazis and Japanese.. that it is a delicate thing that has to be constantly configured

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Agreed in toto.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @pankaj#1,no it is not chowringeeby Shankar, which by the way was translated into english recently and nominated for best foreign book award in uk.I don’t think it won. It is nice to know you know about shankar. His two novels have been immortalised in films by satyajit ray, one is The middleman,inbengali known as Jana Aranya, the other Company limited in bengali known as Seemabadha.
    I think the story you are referring to is one by Gour kishore Ghosh ,who received Ramon Magassay Award , who was imprisoned during emergency by the clown SS Ray. thiugh I am not sure if it is the same story.The one by ghosh is about a naxalite leader and a lady in a train , unknown to each other.
    carnal encounter , but the leader in order to preserve his image gets one his foot soldiers to appear for a sham wedding.
    Another great one by samaresh Basu is Athatoor Din porey(78 days later). This is about a wagon breaker and his wife and a disabled brother . The wagon breaker goes absconding,as police is after him.The wife looks after the disabled brother in law , but nature’s law overrides social mores , the wife falls pregnant.There is more twist and turns i can’t remember.
    please can you tell me where you came across that story.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    Thanks for your words. Really speaking, this was some 40 years back. Do not recall where I read, but as I was fan of Shankar, may be I am giving credit of that story to Shankar, but I will still say, it was Shankar’s short story. Your mention of Naxalite’s carnal encounter, remind me of Bandini. One of the best films, I ever saw. Interestingly, my father, who never use to see a movie, went to see Bandini with my mother and I can say with pride, no bigger compliment can, ever, be given to a movie, if my strict father, went to see a movie.
    BTW on your insistence, I saw groundhog, and I was not disappointed. Though, few other movies, in this genre, are out there. Inception is quite intriguing, still trying to decipher it.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @pankaj#1, bandini’s last scene where nutan (greatest actress to have graced world cinema) is torn between dharmendra and ashok kumar and the two trains on the opposite platforms , and she has to decide. My uncle had a small role to play in creating the tension of that scene. i am divulging no more.
    as for groundhog day , we need BOBBY (where are you mate please join us)
    As i understood after lot of research on the internet and then seeing twice again ,
    it is about caught in a TIME LOOP. Time as we know is linear, but when time is in a loop , it comes back to the same point or event or time. And Bill Murray cannot get out of this , he even stages his own death , but nothing doing , back to the same event of yesterday morning in the next morning.
    Bizarre , disturbing, very very funny like that dialogue where Bill murray says “I am God , well not THE GOD , but a god”.
    Regarding Time it is in the realm of physics , apparently time can shorten , can even become negative , whatever that is . Bobby help us out mate.

  • Rajiv

    For those , who are making a case out of Governor Haily listing herself as white, I have this to say.
    In USA, the police on traffic tickets lists Indians ( atleast all the north Indian friends I know who have received traffic tickets, including myself ) as Whites. They have 4 general categories. Black, White, Hispanic and Asian. If you have mongoloid features, you are listed as Asian, otherwise you are listed as white. There is no seperate category for Indians on many forms. Even the fools should know that Indians and Chinese are not the same race.

    There was a case in California courts about 100 years ago, when racism was legal and constitutional in USA. A white women and an Indian man from punjab was accused of breaking laws prohibiting inter-racial marriage. The courts then ruled that the Indian was caucasian but not white in the anglo-european sense.

    Census forms have evolved to now include Indians as a seperate category so that they do not have to pick or define themselves as Asians/chinese. However many forms do not have Indian as a seperate option.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    holding Pak to account…..today’s NYT editorial

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/opinion/holding-pakistan-to-account.html

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Binoy
    That editorial is actually very lame in my opinion. If PAK army/isi/establsshment were ever held to any account for its direct role in financing, training and sheltering terrorist groups then USA/others woulde be imposing economic sanctions against it and not facilitating the same state. The editorial headline is in fact misleading when compared to the tone, tenor and content of it.

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Rajiv and Binoy, no the actions taken by US ARE not lame.. With stopping aid and going after a small fry like FAI- they are slowly turning the scews
    I read a lot of Pak papers- there is the beginning of panic. They may hate the yanks, but they have got used to the billions

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay;
    You should have read,- in response to your post, somebody mentioned, three doctors. You never mentioned three doctors. Did I convey this?? If yes, I am sorry.

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    Pankaj- Bandini- the music is HAUNTING
    AND THE LYRICS OF Ab ke baras.. are so sad- the woman convict in the prison- peesoing the chakki

    the last song in the movie- mere saajan hain us paar– timeless

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    For me the song of the movie is.

    मोरा गोरा अंग लाई ले
    मोहे श्याम रंग दाई दे
    छुप जाउंगी रात ही में
    मोहे पि का संग दाई दे

    एक लाज रोके पैयां
    एक मोह खींचे बैयाँ
    जाऊं किधर न जानूं
    हम का कोई बतायी दे

    बद्री हटा के चन्दा
    चुप के से झांके चन्दा
    तोहे राहू लागे बैरी
    मुस्काये जी जलाई के

    कुछ खो दिया है पायी के
    कुछ पा लिया गवाई के

    कहाँ ले चला है मनवा
    मोहे बावरी बनायी के

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi;
    Thanks.
    you have a sensitive heart and mind yourself.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    I am so very happy that I am not the only odd man out here, who appreciate finer points of life. Bandini, do not discuss it,, not you, but any one else, I am very possesive about it.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Vijay, you wanted to know about swimming and sailing. In an ideal word it would be nice if you can swim at least 25 meters, otherwise wearing a life jacket at all time is mandatory
    I do firmly believe that all children, if resources permit, should learn swimming young and should be able to swim at least 100 meters
    Many Indians crib that they never had the chance, but many families just did not take the initiative
    Coming from a ‘forces’ family, a love of the outdoors and participation ioin spotrts was MANDATORY

    I genuinely do feel that some of the younger bloggers here are too obsessive about their blogging and should actually be OUT THERE

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    I manage more than a kilo metre at a stretch… 20 lenghts of a 50 mtr pool. So you feel I have no reason to panic in case if I were to be tossed by a sailing boat into the ocean, life jacket on?

    What is the rescue procedure in cas you do end up in the ocean water?

    In river rafting– which can be nasty at times– which I occassionaly go for, t is simple. The life jacket, the shore being close and your mates on the raft…

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    hehehhe — Iislamists are taking over the revolution in Egypt..for the first time Islamists outnumbered others in Tahir protests..

    And guess what they want– ISLAMIC LAW! (not jobs, not food, not education, not rights)…figure it out..

    Vinod etc blaming SubramaniaSwamy does not make any sense.. Why would one think that Indian Muslims do not want Sharia alw, or they willt endorse democratic form of govt etc

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/30/world/middleeast/30egypt.html

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Binoy,
    While discussing politics and religion with some Pakistanis, one of them commented that after death the first question he will be asked is “what is your religion” ?

    No other Pakistani muslim contradicted him. Some agreed , others kept quiet.
    I was awe struck by how illogical most of them have become. They cannot even contemplate that there is just one God ( assuming you are a believer in God ) and its people who have given them different names. There are not seperate departments/courts and jurisdictions in heavens based on ones religion. Its only your actions that count and your religion or whom you pray counts for nothing. That simple concept , which seems very logical to most Indians I talk to, is blasphemous and totally revolting to their concept of God and religion.

    So its hard to see how Islamist majority societies can escape the grip of religion unless they change their view on God and religion.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    B.V. Shenoy

    Please can you throw some light on this headline Yeddyurappa refuses to quit

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    It is a dying declaration of a man suffering from delusion of being a supremo.

    People of Karnataka feel he is already an ex. The party seems unwilling to wound him further and may be inclined to accpet his terms for quitting.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    So Mr Shenoy

    I hope you would agree that,

    corruption

    and hanging on to power

    even after the HQ has requested resignation, is not just restricted to Congress waalahs.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Ravi

    That also tells you how well Sonia manages her party leaders.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Ravi,

    I have always held that corruption follows politicians like a shadow. Very few people remain unaffected by the overpowering attraction corruption holds.

    When the first whiff of Yeddy’s allotting house sites to his kith and kin came to light about seven months ago, I had said in one of Vinodji’s blog that he should resign and go. ( even you may recall that a whole lot of girls with names like Meena Das, Eana, Dimple and boys with names like James, Jimmy, Atul etc came after me with huge daggers!) Because the BJP had come to power riding on the enormous goodwill of the people of the state and he had noright to compromise the party because of his greed.

    I have also held that the scale of his corruption is pittance compared to 2G, CWG, Adarsh etc, which have become landmarks of corruption in the congress regime. Just imagine, Madhu Khoda had amassed 1000 crores in just under a year and Santsh Hegde’s 8000 page report says Yeddy made 30 crore!

    shan Reply:

    There is KAR NATAKA going on in Karnataka

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Ravi

    It happens with the first timers.

    If you remember it happened with PDP in Kashmir too. They were very reluctant to transfer the power.

    Same thing is happening with Yeddi.

    The basic fear is if I let it go, then I may become irrelevant in few months and the new guy will create his own constituencey.

    But the seasoned players do not feel that way. They are usually confident of a comeback. So they let it go and live for another time and opportunity.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Binoy, shoebK, L mirza , and all affected by adani mania
    One of India’s largest trading houses, the $6.4 billion Adani Enterprises, has been accused of forging permits and bribing officials from at least seven state departments and politicians to export iron ore illegally from the port of Belekeri Port in Karnataka between 2006 and 2011.http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/HTEditImages/Images/30_07_11-metro11.jpg

    “The Adani Enterprises has paid the bribes (sic) for getting undue favour for illegal exports,” said the report. The Lokayukta has recommended canceling the company’s export lease at the Port; blacklisting and barring it “from participating in any future contract, grant or lease, etc by the government”; criminal cases against officials and recovery of bribe

    NO BETTER EXAMPLE OF CRONY CAPITALISM
    or as Boudailaire said
    BEHIND EVERY GREAT FORTUNE THERE IS A CRIME

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Shan–

    There is no crime behind every fortune..

    If Adani paid bribes to create thousands of jobs and port and transportation, good for him and good for India..because the british era rule shave to be changed..the license raj and inspection raj makes people to bribe. To give is my freedom; but to take is not allowed.

    What is bribe, what is illegal etc do not make sense in todays India’s rules..

    has the man confiscated private peoples land at lower price? Or, he got a deal/license at a lower price? Whose fault is that if he got a license? one has to get it; he happens to be that.. .

    It is tge Govt IAS at fault..I , as a businessman will try my level best for the best case for me, my employees, my shareholders. Arrest me if I am doig illegal stuff.. Do not pontificate

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy , by the same token D company is to be lauded , okay the original capital was from EXTORTION, then he was giving them protection OR SMUGGLING by bribing custom officials and robbing the govt of revenues. A fraction of what adani’s are doing will land them in SUPERMAX jails in USA.
    Daud ’s terrorist activity is acknowledged but not being discussed here , his economic activity is under the scanner.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @Binoy

    Justifying wrong doings, eh! The lawbreakers of all hues would be delighted to have you as their advocate.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Ravi, peshey khidmat hai ek kabita , the best from bengal in last seventy years
    Banalata Sen

    Translated by Clinton B. Seely

    For thousands of years I roamed the paths of this earth,

    From waters round Ceylon in dead of night to Malayan seas,

    Much have I wandered. I was there in the grey world of Asoka

    And Bimbisara, pressed on through darkness to the city of

    Vidarbha.

    I am a weary heart surrounded by life’s frothy ocean.

    To me she gave a moment’s peace- Banalata Sen from Natore.

    Her hair was like an ancient darkling night in Vidisa,

    Her face, the craftsmanship of Sravasti. As the helmsman,

    His rudder broken, far out upon the sea adrift,

    Sees the grass-green land of a cinnamon isle, just so

    Through darkness I saw her. Said she, “Where have you been

    So long?”

    And raised her bird’s-nest-like eyes – Banalata Sen from Natore.

    At day’s end, like hush of dew

    Comes evening. A hawk wipes the scent of sunlight from its wings,

    When earth’s colour fades and some pale design is sketched,

    Then glimmering fireflies paint in the story.

    All birds come home, all rivers, all of this life’s tasks finished,

    Only darkness remains, as I sit there face to face with

    Banalata Sen.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @bloggers et al,
    i am quite disheartened at the statements coming out of fuedalistan. Same old story , same mindset.
    Apparently f istan , will tolerate hegemony of india as acknowledged by america. Pakistan is equal to india.
    Would somebody kindly explain to me , why they can’t get out of this mind set . Unfortunately there is striking resemblance to the one made by a blogger from haryana the self dignity malaki.
    Why can’t pakistan ignore what usa is saying and build pakistan in a way that who is hegemonic will be obvious , no need for proclamation.
    I think this is Islamic nature , ONLY EMOTION , no rationality. India constantly keeps on harping that a successful stable pakistan is in india’s interest , and what does F istan say , same old thing kashmir.
    Also we know military has been ruling that country 75% of the time.All the leaders are FEUDAL, is there a lalu yadav or paswan or jagjivan ram in pak politics,
    I think things will continue as they are , UNTIL UNCLE SAM’S TAIL IS TRAMPLED UPON, then the end game of F istan will begin.
    i mean just reflect on the news , a essay competition in punjab university eulogizing BIN LADEN.
    Recently bought a book on bin laden in poundstretcher , for a quid. i will keep folks posted about his voracious S life. But for the moment looking forward to see Arsenal in Emirates Cup this weekend.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Sorry for will tolerate read will not tolerate

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Shan,

    Look at this –wha is happening in Indonesia…a “moerate” islamic state… Now multiply that 100 times for Pakistan– couple that with the clout of army..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/world/asia/29indonesia.html

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy,i think Islam is like a downmarket , fast food joint.Like it was on the radio about such a shop,selling chicken leg and a packet of fries for one pound. The chicken is very poor quality , greasy like hell so are the fries(in UK it is called chips).Poor people flock to buy. Govt is worried about the health implication just like cheap booze in supermarket , at one point selling ten pence a bottle if you buy bulk.As health care is totally free and borne by the govt , the implication is grave , as it will put severe strain on health services.
    SAME WITH ISLAM, as it stands it will never be able to catch upwith the modern world and is very unhealthy for its adherents , YET ITS APPEAL amongst the villains and prison population along withdown and out and generally poor mass will keep increasing.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Binoy

    I hope some serious reform takes place on how Islam is practised. As it is the Islamic appeal lies to a male, and NOT to educated females who are gagged.

    The movement for reform of Islam worldwide could really come from educated Indian Muslims. Pity the Government and the conservatives shot down a chance when they removed Vastanvi.

    The appeal of sexual freedoms which girls can get in the West does not appeal too much to the Middle East and Asian Muslims. Somehow the middle of the road Indian lifestyle could be inspiring. Hence the popularity of Indian films.

    But then lately India and the Indian government and media have been scoring relentless self goals recently by trying to paint ourselves as “fundmantalists. conservatives, right wing and what not….”

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Prabhat

    Itna bhi kyon pyaar Congresss se?

    JIndal Congressi ne di rishwat. Woh maaf hona chahiye… wha gr8 logic!

    Now if you are angling for a petrol pump allotment curtesy Sonia Mata and Yuvraj, all of us bloggers should get a full tank free bhaiya ! :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    I like the present Congress team better than BJP’s.

    [ Besides, if most of the bloggers here were supporting Congress, I might have argued for BJP. I like going against the gravity/current. ]

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Prabhat

    But please remember the free tank of petrol in case you ae favoured by the royal family for loyalty…

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    In case…yes.

  • Prabhat

    @ All

    A nice article for all.

    Responsible managers behave like Ram instead of Pandavas in Mahabharata

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/features/corporate-dossier/responsible-managers-behave-like-ram-instead-of-pandavas-in-mahabharata/articleshow/9403850.cms

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Prabhat

    Rama and Ramayana fits well for the “how to”, “7 steps” , “all you want to know” style of the globalized 21st century.

    VedaVyasa’s book eludes the scripting contours.

    Pandavas, except bhima, never compalined about their predicament. Dharmaputra, (Yudhishtira), the epitome of Dharma, was a “yogic” King (more later, may be in another blog) — but one thing i have to say — where current and past Indians’ love for money and corruption has a visible manifestation — We talk about Dharma; how many Indian mothers name their children Dharmaputra (or variations of that)?? There is Arjun’s ten names left and right, all other names from all our books; but Dharmaputra is a rarity.

    (since we talk about Congress and the older Mrs Gandhi etc here often, I recommend Sasi Tarur’s novel “mahabharatha” – where he has Jawahar as Dhrithrashtra, Mrs Indira Gandhi as Duryodhan etc…it is an interesting reading – I hope he does an expanded edition with Sonia etc; now he may not do it, because he is their MP)

    Back to complaints….

    The fundamental premise of any kingdoms is the elder son of the king becomes the king (except in societies that follow matrilineal or other succession methods)..However, the elder son will not if there are issues preventing able, citizenship oriented governance. And if he is removed, he and his descendents are permanently out (not skipping and taking back). So Elizabeth becomes the queen in England, not the son of the abdicated prince..In the famous Yayati story Yaadu’s children would have continued the line of succession, and not Puru’s children. David becomes the king in the old testament, not jonathan. Duryodhan does not have a right because Dhritarashtra was not a king, although he was the older son.Dhritarashtra was a caretaker king when Pandu had his “vanvas”…

    Bhishma Pithamah deliberately (or unknowingly) made several mistakes that all eventually ended in the great annihilation and war. The first mmistake was his “vow” to his father. As a son, and as a prince, he should have advised Shantanu that at the age of 65 or so, he should not be carried away by the lust for women; time to stay put – instead he promotes that behaviour, he should have run Bharath, but he gives it away etc etc.. His second, and even worser mistake was asking Dhritharashtra to divide the kingdom between Pandavas and Kauravas – although he knew very well that Kauravas, under Rajaneethi, did not have any right to the kingdom. Duryodhan does not deserve anything based on the existing rules, Kshatriya customs,, and the historical tardition.
    Not only that; people explicitly wanted Yudhishtir to be the king:;

    rajyapraptim cha sambraptam
    Jyeshtam pandusutham thadra
    katha athi sma sambhoya
    Chathureshu sabha su cha (Aadi Parva 140.24)

    later Gandhari, the daughter of Kandhahar, says:

    Rajyam thu pando ridama pradashya
    thasya adya putra prabhaventi nanye
    rajyam thade thaikhila pandavanam
    paithamaha puthra pautraugami (udyoga Parva 148.33)

    (Pandus kigdom is for Pandavas. The whole coutry is theirs. nobody else has a right to it. The kingdom belongs to them and their children..

    Bhishma, for various reasons did NEVER do the right things — yet he is revered as “Pithamaha” Vyasa has made him half and half, deliberately, making the readers to think through

    Rajyam

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shashi Tarur’s novel is “The Great Indian novel” –

    [Reply]

  • Dr D Mishra

    SHAN
    what is indeed surprising is that you take on your ‘moral superior rationalist’ stance – whatever that means- and attack all and sundry when people criticise Islam and Pakistan

    YET every week you do the same

    [Reply]

    Dr D Mishra Reply:

    example-
    ‘ shan Reply: @Binoy,i think Islam is like a downmarket , fast food joint………selling chicken leg ……………… The chicken is very poor quality , greasy like hell
    SAME WITH ISLAM ‘

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Difficult for you to understand , that is what happens to people sold to science , they are looking for only one thing TRUTH

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Prabhat,

    This article is written by Devdutt Patnaik. This guy is very good. If you have not
    read his articles visit his websie http://www.devduttpatnaik.com

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    Thanks. He is good.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Mohan

    It is pattnaik – two “t”

    In a way, going back to the “books” is good; it is one way of preserving; but let us all not lose the perspective that these are only a “readers digest” version or a Deepak chopra version..

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ MOhan R

    How do you know you are not talking to Prabhat Patnaik. Is that right Prabhat ?? :D

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Vijay,

    I cannot compare them. They are different. The best thing about
    Devdutt is that he is not judgemental.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    You are right.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R
  • vijay kumar

    @ Shenoy

    Just for my information. Since Yedurappa has nearly gone– how was his rule in Karnataka as compared to Dharma SIngh, Kumraswamy and Krishana.

    Or in the end… the ruler did not matter. Thigns happen anyway….

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    in Karnataka, things get pushed to actionable stage by the sheer pressure of the people who matter. And the IT people matter big time here. There are several pressure groups, from whom even the most lethargic CM cannot escape. But, generally, people here get satisfied with just a little, so that even the most corrupt administration can get on with life. J.H.Patel was a classic example of an “ayyashi” politician, who, once became the CM, forgot all about his duties and began going behind women! He forced the CEOs of big companies like Narayana Murthy, Azim Premji etc to take up showels and pick axes to do the road work themselves in a protest!

    From these standpoints, Yeddy was just OK.

    But, I would like to quote the sentiment expressed by Gopi about Nehru and Indira Gandhi. Like them, Yeddy had the whole of Karnataka eating from out of his hand and he lost the enormous goodwill for the party in a matter of just one year.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shenoy

    Would nijalingappa be considered as the best CM Karnataka had?

    Would Krishna, although has personal faults, be considered as a modern builder of Karnataka esp Bangalore??

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Time 9 am, Location Plaza in Connaught Place, Film Bandini, Ticket 10 Annas.

    Bimal Roy films were imbued with various layers of meaning (as most Bengali literature is) and to achieve that he made use of symbolism. It is often difficult to decipher each layer cleanly and that is what makes his films fascinating. He did not have full control over his characters and what they represented. The audience enjoys the puzzle even if there is no neat solution or resolution.

    Bandini is no different. The incident that led to imprisonment, the serving of the time and the final choice, Nutan has to make when released is a subtle blend of symbols.

    One can imagine that Nutan is India imprisoned not only by the British Raj, but also by its own antiquated traditions. Ashok Kumar represents the AS IS India and Dharmendar the TO BE India. Just in case the audience does not get this Ashok Kumar wears Indian clothes where as Dharmendar wears English Pantaloon and Collared Shirts. One hears Male prisoners next door singing जाने वल्ले सिपाही से पूछो वोह कहाँ जा रहा है and Ashok Kumar himslef is a क्रन्तिकारी.

    Bimal Roy poses the question, once FREE what should India do. Should it follow westernised style modernisation or be loyal to its own traditions and क्रन्तिकारी near past.

    Nutan provides the answer, but not without some hesitation.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Watching NDTV24#7 DOCUMENTARY, islamic brotherhood /ummah/rank hypocrisy on display.
    bangladeshis sent to malaysia for work , treated like dogs , well pigs ,no wages , no place to stay ,one square meal a day , sold on to different construction mafia. The quicker an alternate to oil is found is better , then all these islamic countries except Turkey should be expelled from UN

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Dr Sali Faazwan, the chief Imam of Saudi Arabia, hasjust issued a fatwa that there is no age restrictio for girls to get married.. Girls as young as in the “cradle” can be married, he stated. It is for the afther and the bridegroom/husband to decide; no state can enforce age rules…

    The Kingdom has not stated anything to the contrary — while King Abdullah wants to come with a statement about modern science etc, his “descedents” are against alienating this guy.

    Faazwan says that is the Sharia law.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Well, Ravi will bring up child marriage in Rajasthan!

    Wait and see….

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    (:

    Ravi Reply:

    I will wait until you bring up the 9 yr old bride of Mohamad.

    Ravi Reply:

    For the confirmed Islamophobe S Singh

    Ravi will give the entire Asia. It should make some informative reading for you.

    Do Note Saudi Arabia, and also note how out od step it is.

    Afghanistan: 18 for males and 16 for females, more than half of marriages involve females under 16.[19]

    Armenia: 18 for males, 17 for females.

    Azerbaijan: 18 for males, 17 for females. 17 or 16 correspondingly in special cases.[20]

    Bangladesh: 21 for males and 18 for females, lunar calendar; penal sanctions for contracting under-age marriages, though such unions are not considered invalid.[21]

    Brunei: No minimum marriage age specified.[22]

    Cyprus: 18, 16 with parental and ecclesial consent.

    People’s Republic of China: 22 for males, 20 for females.[23]

    Georgia: 18 but 14 with parental consent.

    Hong Kong: 21, 16 with parental consent.[24]

    India: 21 for males and 18 for females.[25] If any partner(s) engages in marriage at a younger age, (s)he can ask for the marriage to be declared void / annulled. A recent recommendation by the Law Commission aims to equalize the marriage age for males and females to 18,[26] automatically declares marriages under 16 as “null and void”, while marriages at the age of 16 or 17 are “voidable”[26]

    Indonesia: 21, 19 for males and 16 for females with parental consent. (Indonesia’s Civil Law)

    Iran: 18 for male, 16 for female[27]\

    Iraq: 18, 15 with judicial permission if fitness, physical capacity and guardian’s consent (or unreasonable objection on part of guardian) are established. (May or may not have been revised after Saddam Hussein’s fall.)[28]

    Israel: 18 for males and 17 for females.[29]

    Japan: 20, 18 for males and 16 for females with parental consent.[30]

    Jordan: 16 for males and 15 for females, lunar calendar; court permission required for females under 18 to marry men older by 20 years or more.[31]

    Kazakhstan: 18, in special cases 16 years with parental consent.[32]

    Korea: 18 with parental consent.

    Kuwait: No minimum marriage age identified; capacity to marry requires parties to be of age (puberty) and of sound mind, however, no notarisation or registration of marriage permitted where female has not reached 15 years or male 17 years.[33]

    Kyrgyzstan: 18[34]

    Lebanon: 18 for males and 17 for females; scope for judicial discretion on basis of physical maturity and wali’s permission from 17 for males and 9 for females; real puberty or 15/9 with judicial permission for Shi’a; 18/17 or 16/15 with judicial permission for Druze.[35]

    Malaysia: 21, 18 with parental consent. Muslim girls under 16 can marry with the permission of sharia authorities, and some girls as young as 14 have been permitted to marry.[36]

    Maldives: According to custom, the minimum age for marriage is 15; the Law on the Protection of the Rights of the Child discourages marriage before the age of 16[37]
    Nepal:males at 21 and females at 18 years without parental permission and also 18 years for males and 16 years for females with parental permission.[38]

    Pakistan: 18 for males, 16 for females.[39]

    Palestinian territories: 16 for males and 15 for females, lunar calendar.

    Mongolia : 18

    Philippines: 18. If any spouse is 18–20 years and the consent of “parental” authority is not met, marriage may be prevented or annulled by any party that demands it.[40] On the other hand, Muslim marriages in the Philippines is based on the Shari’a: 15 yrs for males and as for females, the onset of puberty to age 15, whichever comes first.[41]

    Russia: 18, 16 in special circumstances; may vary in different regions.

    Saudi Arabia: None currently, legislation for age 18 is being considered.[42]

    Singapore: 21, 18 with parental consent, below 18 with special marriage license.

    Sri Lanka: 18. However, Muslims can be excluded from this regulation because the Muslim Marriage and Divorce Act of 1951 states that a girl must be 12 years of age or have a Quazi’s permission to marry before contracting into marriage. This is applicable only for Muslims in Sri Lanka.[43]

    Syria: 18 for males and 17 for females; judicial discretion for males of 15 and females of 13; judge may withhold permission for marriage if court finds incompatibility in age between betrothed parties.[44]

    Republic of China (Taiwan): 20 as the age of majority[45] generally. 18 for males, 16 for females with parental consent.[46]

    Thailand: 20, 17 with parental consent, 15 in special circumstances with court approval. Note: The hill tribes follow traditional rules, as 12 for female be found.
    Turkey: 18, 17 with parental consent, 16 in special circumstances with
    court approval.
    Uzbekistan 18 for males, 17 for females. 17 and 16 correspondingly in special conditions.[47]
    Vietnam: 20 for males, 18 for females.
    Yemen: In practice, “Yemeni law allows girls of any age to wed, but it forbids sex with them until the indefinite time they’re ’suitable for sexual intercourse’.”[48] Following the widely publicised divorce of a 10 year-old girl in 2008, there have been public and parliamentary efforts to raise the age to 17 or 18.[49][50][51]

    S Singh Reply:

    I m glad you did’t bring Rajstam child marriage..

    But, what is your point? How these coutnries’ age rules affect Saudi Arabia?

    There, a “learned” Muslim Imam, who is supposed to dispense with coutry’s law in conjunction with the king has said that it is ok to marry a girl n the cradle…: nn

    Looks like u r ok with that; agair…n did not understand why u listed these other countries

    Ravi Reply:

    S Singh

    As soon as I understand your point, I will be prepared to explain mine.

    S Singh Reply:

    didnt Mohamed have 9 yr old bride –ayesha

    Ravi Reply:

    And doesn’t Rajasthan and other parts of India have child marraige still being practiced against the law of the country.

    Age of Consent in Britain was 12 until about 100 yrs ago.

    So what is your point.

  • shan

    @Ravi , talking about multilayered please please please watch this satyajit Ray film DAYS AND NIGHT IN THE FOREST , in bengali known as aranyer din ratri.If you give me your address i will send you a copy , or buy it from amazon ,if you dont like it i will refund you the money. It has good english subtitle and has sharmila tagore.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    If you guys are into great movies, you may like aravindan, john abraham, and adoor gopalakrishnan

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    I saw a wonderful Malayalam movie “Vanaprastham” – the great actor Mohan Lal is the hero as a Kathakali artist, and ManiRatnam’s wife Suhasini as his lover belonging to the royal family — during the transition of India independence..

    A superb film.. I believe it won the national award .. dont know who the director is..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Will take your advise and buy/rent it

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Prabhat and Gopi

    If you read Tharoor’s novel which was a take on the epics and compared them to preent day India, you would have been surprised with the colorful description it had of Nehru’s affair with Edwina.

    Wonder how he managed to become a Minister. Maybe Rahul and Sonai never read he book…

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Looks like Nehru was just a normal and straight man, unlike…

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    How things change in the fourth generation :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Going by your rule, everybody will be sceptical to be Grand -parent !

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    well, it is a satirical novel.. Taroor attributes blindess for nehru sees only socialism ..nothing else..blind beliefs..

    Well, Edwina relationship should be considered personal..after all he was a single man..

    My negatives on Jawaharlal and Mrs Indira Gndhi are based on not what they accomplished; but what all great things they could have accomplished.. The country was at their beck and call.. They could have taken the country to soaring heights if they were open to others ideas..

    Indira Gandhi , instead of dong good or great, did terrible things — the root of present day corruption was really planted during her time, by her explicit involvement — it was not for personal enrichment (she was contemptuous of rich people, just like her father) ; but to fight elections; she did not want anybody else to win — no democracy for her.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Se may have been contempous of the Rich… but she dines with the Brilas once every week. It is on record…

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    she could have dined and still improved india – instead she created two geerations of poor people…

    she created Bhidarwalla …. which ultimately caused her own death (sort of LeT , Pak govt creation coming abck at them)…

    the only credit is for bomb making (i m not for bombs; but it is better to have that rather than not)

    “India is Indira, Indira is India” – these were the cries in those days — She could have done so much…

    especially considering she was the only man in that congress and opposition leadership!

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Pankaj ji,

    You said, “Shenoy Sahab;
    Hope you are not serious, if you are, then I will be very scared to rub you on wrong side. It is said that Chankya would put the-MATHA_ (buttermilk) in roots to eradicate his tormentors and he would not tie his -Choti-, till he has finished his enemies. Mujhe baksho. Ha.”

    kahaan woh mahaan jnani, buddhishaali, teevrabuddhi, jisne ek mahhan saamrajya basaa diya, or kahaan ek humble, ordinary bank officer?

    It was meant to be a joke and even Shaan Nirad Babu got it.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shenoy, may be it is not farfetched!

    - Chanakya – Chanayya- Chenoyya — shenoyya– shenoy

    (let us start this s a new theory)

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi,

    I would have gladly gone along with this yarn, because for any community to be associated, even in a twisted way, with one of Indian history’s greatest thinkers, is a great honour.

    But, our community, GSB (gowd saraswath brahmins) originally belonged to Goa, which found itself threatened by the Portuguese rulers’ conversion crusade, and ran southwards in droves and settled along coastal Karnataka and Kerala. the presetnCM of Goa, Digambar Kamat, is a GSB.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    Thanks for your reply. well, Ha, at the end of my post, should have conveyed that I also took it as a joke.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    And it also had intended and unintended, other targets.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Shenoy

    Were Ramkrishana Hegde and Devraj Urs really the best ones. I had a neighbour from Banglalore who would keep chanting bhajans in their praise…

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ramakrishna hegde was involved in mny scandals – not sure if they weer all framed by the opposition..

    He had a “woman” problem too ….. (well, nobody is as bold as Karunanidhi to have 3-4 wives! )

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay kumar, Gopi, Pankaj ji,

    Ramakrishna Hegde was sauve, polished, flambouyant and decent. You can compare him with S.M. Krishna.

    Devraj Urs was earthy, forward looking and reformist.

    Virendra Patil, under whom Hegde was the finance minister, was, in my opinion, the best CM Karnataka had.

    J.H.Patel, Kumaraswamy and Yeddyurappa are three of the worst CMs Karnataka had the misfortune to be ruled by. Karnatakians definitely didn’t deserve their misrule.

    Hegde, Patel and Kumaraswamy are all bigamists and never felt the need to hide it. The others are only a shade better in this respect.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    @ Vijay
    Regarding sailing- if you can do 20 lengths of swimming, then what is the problem
    Go sailing anytime
    Big yatchs are for the ocean, you can do dinghy or catamaran sailing in a lake or river.. I did dinghy sailing in Okhla in 1970s
    I ALWAYS SAY, A BILLION $ INDUSTRY IN INDIA JUST WAITING TO BE DISCOVERED- dicing, sailing, surfing, canoeing and even sailing on large cruise ships

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    @ Gopi- you may be right, Indira did some bad
    BUT WHY THE HELL CAN I NOT FORGET HER FINEST HOUR- LIBERATION OF BANGLADESH- so that we withdrew most of the army from our eastern borders
    The nest 20 generation of INDIANS should thank her and Maneckshaw, Arora and all the forces for that
    but not Shahbeg Singh, cos what good he did in 1971 he nullified in 1984, but that is anotehr painful story (right Balwinder praaji ??)

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    ———————————————————————–
    How Turtuk became part of India in Dec, 1971
    ———————————————————————–

    India returned not only 91,000 Pak prisoners but 12,000 sq km of Pak territory in the west to Pakistan after 1971 war. India kept a small piece in Turtuk ( Baltistan ) to remind Pakistan that everytime it attacks India, it stands to lose.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?277826

    The Overlooked Corner

    “On the night of December 13, 1971, the people of this village went to sleep in Pakistan. The next morning, they woke up in India.” We are in Turtuk, listening to a villager recount the history of this remote northwest corner of Ladakh, which until that night was part of Baltistan in PoK. During the 1971 war, while all the attention and most of the action was concentrated on the Bangladesh front, Major Chewang Rinchen of the Ladakh Scouts and his troops captured four out of the 14 villages in Baltistan, with a total area of 804 sq km, before the ceasefire was declared on December 17.

    There’s an end-of-the-world feel about the landscape as we approach Turtuk after a nine-hour drive from Leh. The chortens and prayer flags, those ubiquitous landmarks of Ladakh, have disappeared. The forbidding, jagged peaks of the Karakorams seem to close in from all sides. High on a crag are the crumbling ruins of an old fort. The placid Shyok river has transformed into a roaring, jade-green torrent as it rushes to converge with the mighty Indus in Pakistan. There isn’t another car on the road. The LoC is just 12 km away.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Time Warped Hamlets

    Turtuk was opened to tourism only last year and local landowners Rehmatullah and Ataullah Khan wasted no time in setting up a tented camp in their orchard.

    On August 5, barely a month after they opened shop, a cloudburst struck and their camp was washed away. The brothers bravely started from scratch again and now wait for the world to arrive at their little slice of paradise. For those who have had their fill of the monasteries, Bactrian camels and alpine lakes on Ladakh’s increasingly overcrowded tourist circuit, there is indeed something new and quite enchanting to discover here.

    Wild roses and columbines straddle the lane leading up to Rehmatullah’s camp. Situated on a ridge above the camp are the twin villages of Turtuk-Youl and Turtuk-Farol, where Rehmatullah takes us to visit his family.

    Inside the villages it’s a world apart, reminiscent of a scene out of The Man Who Would be King. The villagers are fair, rosy-cheeked, with aquiline features. Many have auburn hair. “We Baltis are Aryans with a slight touch of Mongol,” explains Rehmatullah. The houses, of stone and wood, stand in the shade of giant apricot, walnut and mulberry trees. Water channels gurgle through the winding village lanes. Old women wearing gorgeous silver tiaras, their hair plaited in a dozen braids, sit winnowing barley. Both villages have beautiful wooden mosques. The one in Youl, dating back to 1690, boasts a minar built entirely of latticed wood, and exquisitely carved ceiling panels. We are intrigued by what look like little cages carved into a hillside. “Put your hand inside,” says Rehmatullah, his eyes twinkling. We do, and it feels like we’d put our hands inside a freezer. “This is where we store fruit, meat and our best pashminas,” explains Rehmatullah. There is probably an underground glacial stream flowing beneath these cages.

    ——————————————————————————–

    People Made Of Silk

    In Turtuk-Youl, we meet a genius who hides his light under a chulha. Abdul Karim Khali, who runs the village halwai shop, is a master sculptor in his spare time. Shyly, he shows us his latest work—on a rough chunk of rock, he has carved in high relief a crouching snow leopard stalking an ibex, against a backdrop of rugged peaks and crags. No, he can’t sell it, it’s not finished yet; and no, he doesn’t take orders. “But come next year, I may have something ready for you.”

    Our next stop is at the home of a real-life ‘Man Who Would Be King’. The Khan of Turtuk, Mohammad Khan Kacho of the Yabgo Dynasty of Chorbat Khaplu, to give him his title in full. His ancestors derived their power and wealth (now sadly reduced) from Turtuk’s strategic location on a feeder road of the Silk Route going on to Central Asia via Skardu and Yarkand. His “palace” is a handsome mansion with a balcony from where he greets his people. The roof and eaves are ingeniously decorated with metal trimmings from a truck chassis. The Khan, alas, isn’t home, but we are invited in by his wife and daughter, exquisite beauties both, and seated in his audience chamber.

    There is a wooden plaque in the room, inscribed with his genealogy, dating back to 1,000 AD—his throne, and everything else of value, the Khan’s wife says, was looted by Pakistani officers who were billeted here during the 1965 war.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Mana, With A Side Order Of Bread

    The Khan’s mother, reclining regally on a carpet, is 105 years old. She rises unaided from the floor and walks to the door to greet us. Rehmatullah’s uncle, who is also a spry 105, is still weaving intricate pashmina shawls. There are several 100-year-olds in Turtuk, says Rehmatullah.

    What’s the secret behind the longevity? “Eat what we Baltis eat,” is his short answer. He lays before us two kinds of bread—muskut and kisir—made with buckwheat and walnut; roasted barley porridge; sun-dried tomato and garlic chutney; yogurt flavoured with a fragrant green herb called tsamik; and a brimming bowl of apricots and mulberries. Baltistan’s elixir of life tastes very good indeed.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R
  • shan

    @S singh , your surname reeks of gobar (cowdung) which hindus incidentally consider HOLY and used to smear on the newborn,s umbilicus , giving them tetanus., Thus your gloating at all the misfortune of islamic countries. I am a vocal critic of islam and islamic countries. But there is a difference , I do it out of exasperation ,out of anger seeing the hapless people of islamic countries crushed under the yoke of religion, mine is a stand of a humanist , yours like shenoy is a fascist regressive , reactionary, COW BELT obscurantist .
    I am not a great follower of prophet but I am an ardent admirer of Islamic civilization and its GRANDEUR.
    When I criticize ,it is to show light , when you critisize it is your cow belt background showing through.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    shut up u r am idiot

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Blimey Ram and idiot juxtaposed, Now that is cow brain

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    In some cases, the cow dung smeared on the umblicus of the new born doesn’t cause titanus, but causes damage to the brain cells making the child grow up into an imabalanced, twisted-brained person with a foul mouth.

    It is your parents who had smeared the cow dung on your umblicus that have made you all these things.

    As for light shining on you, I love to recall what Balwinderji said in his classic comment about shining the light inside your r.ectum, where hides your deformed, imbalanced, twisted brain.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Shenoy , too much much backhanders during your stint at the nationalised banks(in return for releasing bank loans,and not withholding/delaying) has turned you into ,or perhaps you are following the footsteps of the peers from your state ,the lumanaries, lingappas , but the crown goes to jafar sharief , and you may share some of his traits and i am not talking about monetary greed .

    [Reply]

  • nirav

    Another invitation to all bangladeshi,pakis and all other congress vote banks…
    Chidambram has opened the borders with bangladesh….
    BSF cannot fire at anyone crossing the borders ….welcome and vote for congress..
    Yes and you can do dhoom dhadakas in all parts of india and UPA will protect all including kasab and afsal guru…..
    Freedom to illegal immigration ….
    Its a shame that we are having to breathe the same filthy air as Congress parasites like PM,FM and Gandhi family…ofcourse their pet dog vijay singh as well…

    Lets support anna on the 16th and show these guys that their time is up………..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    You are a ventriloquist’s dummy. Your mouth may be moving, but the words that are coming out are stright from the RSS manual.

    Isn’t Hardline Conservative Hindu’s your vote bank.

    [Reply]

    nirav Reply:

    @Ravi,

    I dont talk to ISI guys.You can call your friend fai for that.
    Please excuse.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Nirav, stay nirav(quiet) , do not spread canards. Chidambaram has gone to bangladesh for a comprehensive border treaty ,particularly the odd things called Chitmahal.These are enclaves within both bangladesh and india whose dominionstatus is not clear (God knows why)
    These areas were probably more facilitating and preventing proper border management.
    A referendum will take place and people allowed to chose which country theywant to merge with.
    PLEASE KEEP IN MIND INDIA CONTINUES TO BUILD 2500KM OF BORDER FENCING, and didn’t give a toss to bangladesh’s opinion.Though to be fair THIS WAS STARTED BY BJP.
    Also India is now enjoying good relationship with bangladesh ,which is very vital , india cannot open too many fronts , also all the north east terrorist who found sanctuary in bangladesh has been handed over to India.

    Ravi Reply:

    Nirav

    That is fine I don’t much like RSS wallah’s, like you.

  • Mahesh

    @Shan and Pankaj,
    This is totally besides the topics at this blog.
    Completed reading Joseph Leduoux’s “Emotional Brain”. To say the least – it was a treat for lay-persons like me to read through the neuropsychological context of emotions. Incidentally, as a personal anecdote, had read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink”. Had alomost dismissed part of Gladwell’s book as “behavioral sciences BS” . However, it makes much more sense now.
    Please suggest more literature on neuro topics. And , BTW, my own reading bias leans towards “structural abstractions” – the biochemistry doesn’t make sense for me.
    (Sifted through Eric Kandel’s book on memory at a local bookstore , found it a tad too difficult for lay-persons like me).
    Thanks,
    Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ mahesh

    Blink is a great piece of work.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Prabhat,
    Try reading his “Outliers” too. Actually somehow after reading Ledoux I have started treating Gladwell very very seriously.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mahesh

    I have read that.

    james Reply:

    If you liked outliers and blink….pls watch My Brilliant Brain….a 3 part documentary available on internet. It really is fascinating. In one of its part, it shows how a father of a girl trained her from very early age to be a chess player, and now is she one of th grand masters. In another part, in the end, it is shown how by putting magnetic effect on one side of brain, attention to detail is improved. My recommendation — must watch, especially, if you want to train your kids to be geniuses

    Mahesh Reply:

    Incidentally, since me recalls you having hinted somewhere being a “branding person” – this particular write-up by Gladwell on Egypt might be of interest to you….
    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell
    (Please be warned it is a bit lengthy articles but , IMHO, one of Gladwell’s best works).
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    My bad – this was in the context of Iran.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ mahesh

    Thanks.

    james Reply:

    By the way, and totaly off track again…. I just finished reading Khuswant Singh’s autobiography. It has a fascinating chapter about his time as editor of Hindustan Times. If ppl are interested, i willing to quote some really interesting parts from their.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mahesh;
    I am not in Psychology or any such discipline, but I will look for something.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Mahesh , that too is my most favourite topic. But sadly not a great deal deal is known at molecular level. lot is known about the anatomy , not much in the way of physiology. I have taken down the name of the book you refer to , will be ordering soon through my library, it will be fetched from somewhere in uk if not the n usa(yes it’s a fact). The book to read is by Prof Ramachandran called “The tell tale Brain”
    and the other one’s is “The phantom Brain”
    Fascinating thing i read in the latest issue of Scientific American. It is on the evolution of brain.
    Now this is where I need you guys input.
    Apparently the brain has reached the peak of its evolution.No more neurons can be packed into it , and no more activity is possible , Apparently any more firing and it will get HOT like a computer .but perhaps it will work with more information (?is this is what is software for brain) and thus more discoveries.
    Your comment will be much appreciated.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan ,
    Actually Ramchandran’s Work on Phantom limbs has been truly inspiring for simplicity and effectiveness. (Read about it when looking up and purchasing his book “21st century human brain” – though, I must admit that book is still un-read and lying with me for past three months or so….too bad for me ).
    About your question – well, it could be tad too early to answer those as it *does* sound a sweeping comment that human brain may have reached the peak of emotion… or , atleast lay-persons like me are not in a position to answer. But then again, maybe the evolution may find out its own ways and means. Such as “hard-coding” some of the “common functions” . (Try reading Chomsky on “Commonality of grammaticalness in human languages” and his own recent re-buttals of his own theories. We are living in truly best of the times so far from knowledge and information accessibility perspectives…). Another set of works you could refer to is by Margaret Boden (A sussex univ. comp. sc. professor ) and her “ilk” in computational neuro-sciences.
    Since we are exchanging notes … here is my reading list on the related topics so far….
    1> Descarte’s Error – Antonio Damasio
    2> The Making of Memory – Steven Rose
    3> Emotional Brain – Joseph Ledoux.
    Reading Pending :
    1> 21st Century Brain – Ramchandran
    2> Creative Mind – Margaret Boden.

    Please feel free to add something you may feel want to the reading list.

    Thanks,
    Mahesh.
    p.s. for Pankaj : While not addressing your post directly – please feel free to go through the reading list and share something at your end as well.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @mahesh, an anecdote. Couple of years ago , I came across a recently graduate doctor , both parents from Goa. She was working under me , doing all the job properly. Then I asked her about her career plan etc , there was a gap of one year . I thought she had taken an year off . But she said no it was because she was severely ill with meningitis , and she broke down in tears. I said you should be happy , you made a complete recovery and you are working now. She said “But I have lost all my past memory”. It is impossible to imagine the agony , she cannot remember her childhood and all that , though she has recent memory intact.
    Now I tried to find out about memory , not a great deal is known. There used to be a theory “memory granules” that has gone out of the window. Now it is thought to be the job of Limbic system. But we dont know , at least i would love to be educated about the molecular basis of memory.
    Your input is welcome

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan,
    IMHO, the memory loss your friend hints at might be very very un-usual. (Actually – more likely that the person is pullling your legs , or you are pulling my legs. :-) . Check with somebody from neuro background, though.
    Limbic system ….. the notion appears to be facing challenges – and perhaps willl stay relegated as a “placeholder phrase” (again, that is my understanding from whatever reading i had a chance with…. a lay person’s lay thought – if you may put it….).
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Mohan, I dont think she was pulling my leg,that would have maade her the greatest actress on earth.memory loss is quite a recognised long term sequale of meningitis.
    Here you have it from Mayo Clinic
    Complications
    By Mayo Clinic staff

    The complications of meningitis can be severe. The longer you or your child has the disease without treatment, the greater the risk of seizures and permanent neurological damage, including:

    * Hearing loss
    * Blindness
    * Memory difficulty
    * Loss of speech
    * Learning disabilities
    * Behavior problems
    * Brain damage
    * Paralysis

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Quite possible that she was horror stricken by which creaure was sitting in front of her :D

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan,
    My “pulling the legs” comment was directed at this from your earlier post – “She said “But I have lost all my past memory”. It is impossible to imagine the agony , she cannot remember her childhood and all that , though she has recent memory intact.”
    IMHO, the memory loss effects may not be as dramatic as what the person mentioned. It could be as subtle as “vague remembrance”, un-explained un-pleasentness at the mention of something , or perhaps a subtle behavioral change (perhaps even un-noticeable at that).
    But again, me not being medical practitioner, could be hopelessly off the mark here and hence treat whatever I said with every bit of skepticism.
    Also, Please choose not to feel offended .
    - Mahesh.

    shan Reply:

    @mahesh ,neurology is not my speciality ,it is general surgery.so i also rely on books rather than my own experience in clinics.have to say if that was acting ,i don’t think I will come across another one of the same kind.

  • B.V .SHENOY

    Gopi,

    you asked, “Shenoy

    Would nijalingappa be considered as the best CM Karnataka had?

    Would Krishna, although has personal faults, be considered as a modern builder of Karnataka esp Bangalore??”

    Nijalingappa got into history books by rubbing Indira Gandhi on the wrong side, heading the opposition group in the congress, called SYNDICATE. He was a corrupt-to-the-core politician. Definitely not among the best. Once he filed his nomination papers for an assembly seat from six constituencies, contested from two of them and lost both. Then, like today’s Yeddy, he nominated S.R.Kanthi as his stand-in CM, to keep the seat warm for him. Kanthi declared, rather shamelessly, that, like Bharat of Ramayana, he would keep Nijalingappa’s chappals on his seat and rule the state. Nijalingapppa returned in a by-election to resume the CM’s gaddi.

    SM.Krishna is no builder of modern Karnataka. He has only builders as friends.

    [Reply]

  • B.V .SHENOY

    Vijay Kumar, Gopi, Rajeev, Rajiv and Pankaj ji,

    Hina Rabbani Khar (HRK), the glamour-queen of Pakistan, is angry at the media trivialising her visit to India. Here are a few lines in verse:

    Pakistan possesses several hundreds of WMDs
    India too should have them say many of our MD’s

    But, what Hina Rabbani Khar has in plenty is attraction
    she is Pakistan’s weapon of mass distraction

    Did anybody hear or care for her sound bytes?
    all our media noted was her Jimmy choos’ heights.

    She sweet-talked to our Krishna and Anthony
    and charmed them with words dripping with honey

    for a week our media was full of HRK
    and forgot all about our own poor SRK.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Brilliant.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy
    Excellent.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    You can carry debate to any height. This time very well said in verse. keep me on your right side, though I am a rightist myself.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Shenoy

    Fantastic. Among the best !!

    The right messae to our media which went overboard with hype and forgot about the victims of 26/11 and other terror attacks.

    I dread the day if and when Imran Khan beccomes the PM of Pakistan. All those aunties who bark at Indian nationalists will start cooing like females pigeons in the mating season– as they did when Imran dished out lies that India was behind the attacks on the Lankan cricket team… :D

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Aunties?
    what blasphemy, Vijay Kumar!

    Here is one to all aunties:

    Amma in the south
    Didi in the East
    Behanji in the north
    AUNTIE in (the) capital
    Mataji at the centre
    Wife at home
    Haseena in Dhaka
    and Hina across Wagah

    (source:Times Of India)

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    after the line wife at work , the one that got lost in the net ,
    couple of muslim mistresses in my garment factory,

    Let the mawali quawali begin

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    and half a dozen nurses
    with empty purses
    whose behinds Shaan purses
    and they give him curses!

    Mohan R Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Very good. I was in Bangalore last Nov. just for a day. I wish I had met you
    and learned from you how to write poetry ( I dont know whether it can be taught ).
    But I will make sure that next time I am their will come and meet you.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Amma giveth away land she got
    Caught from crooks like Karuna
    stole they from the little ones
    not one, not two, thousands acres

    Amma dressing up for India show
    A show she will do and win

    Modi loves and resepects her
    Hence both on mujahid list

    We did get a list here
    Where they lsited temples
    They did mention Amma too
    In addition to Modi

    Amma they hate since she tough
    Pulling them by their balls
    Why no Muslim minister they ask
    And she says fu— off get some life

    Karuna left a treasure chest
    Land grabs, channels, house police
    She will nail him and congies
    And she knows pr media

    Time wll come whn bahu will shrink
    For amma knows to handle her

    For she is a Kaali , and a devi
    And a smiing Rambha
    Rolled in one

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Raju,

    Jayalalitha was a kissing Rambha in her youth
    now she is a hissing Naag and snarling Kali rolled into one.

    A lot of things have to work in conjunction for her to ascend the Delhi Gaddi.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    I bet you are on Amma’s fan mail list!! But are you really sure she is going to be good as the PM.

    or is it poetic fantasy ??

    Because knowing women, I have realised they become insecure fast.

    And u got to make sure

    “that hell has no fury like a woman scorned ! “

  • vijay kumar

    O my gosh… balwinder will say belans from all sides…

    [Reply]

  • shan

    apparently syed ali shah geelani has thrown spanner in the works of pakistanis.he told Mohatarma hina
    THAT HE WANTS BOTH POK AND KASHMIR together for any future talks or plebescite., therewas no mention of merger with pakistan
    This however did not prevent Mohatarma escorting ,the oldman with a transplanted kidney(is it from an indian ?hindu) to gates of the pak embassy.
    However nothing will happen , THERE WILL UNINTURRUPTED AND UNINTERRUPTIBLE (guess whose words) TALKS ABOUT FUTURE TALKS

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,
    Hina may escort Geelani upto the gates of heaven, but they WILL NOT get Kashmir!

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Shan

    Why do you step down to abuse every few minutes. Both personal and vulgar.

    You would notice that except for Ravi and Mahesh and mybe one or two more people, everybody steers clear of you.

    I think in the interest of healthy blogging, you should mind your language. Humour is one thing. But sexual slurs, vile abuse… does not reflect well on a persons educaton and background

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    I just follow what i was taught in my school physics book written by CK dasgupta,about third law of motion by a certain person , who got his inspiration from a falling apple.
    also let’s elevate the debate to an intellectual plane with facts and figures to back up your argument and not trivia’s and crappy angloindian kabitas.
    Tell us something from your structural engineering background, tell me the name of a BRIT who died couple of years ago, who apparently invented steel reinforced concrete and first used it in Severn Bridge.Also it is true Humber Bridge is the world’s first longest suspension bridge ,and are you aware the 2nd hooghly bridge is a German design bought for 200crores(i used to give private tution to the son of one of the engineers in 80’s)

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    SHENOY/VIJAY

    Imran Khan becoming the president is bad news for India. Dawn newspaper (NP) has consistently blamed him for the fundamentalism and anti-Indian stance among the so called middle class/upper sections.

    Zardari, with all his personal faults, is a good partner for India. However, he does not wield any power. He would have done a lot to improve the relations, reduce kashmir terrorism etc If he were like a Musharuff

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Shenoy/Vijay/Prabhat

    Dr Singh elevating his secretary TK Nair on his retirement and keeping him affiliated wth the PMO while accepting Chatterjee as his secreatry (choice of Mrs Gandhi) – looks like MMS is showing his “assertive” side. What u say

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi,

    I agree with you 100% on Imran Khan. He is one snooty, snotty, arrogant, egotistical snob, who is no good even for Pakistan, leave alone India. I hope somebody will bomb him like they did Benazir.

    As for TKNair, it is a trick played by Sonia Gandhi, to have a listening post inside PMO, because Pulak Chattejee is a Kulak belonging to Mataji’s camp. Nair, in fact gave up on an offer of governorship last year preferring to stick to the side of MMS, but now he will be there till the Kulak learns the ropes around the PMO and then Nair will get marching orders.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Gopi

    you are right about Imran khan. He could be real bad news for India. he has backed the Pakistani Taliban and other extremeist groups.

    Unfortunately the Indian media in the eighties had a horrible fascination for him. The Shobha de edited Society ane Celebrity featuered him on the cover, projecting him as a demi god– based on the man’s personal friendship with Parmeshwar Godrej. And once this demi god sort of thing was done, many film heroines like Zeenat Aman lined up to welcome the Pakistani stars– in thier rooms which were certainly not the drawing room…. :D

    even horsie looking Asif Iqbal, whom I saw close in Taj Delhi, managed to snare a Colonal’s wife– she of course came back after she was relegated to the thrid wife’s role in lahore after a few years… :D

    Thus for a certain age group the mage of Imran Khan the charismatic God is more overpowering than Imran the Fundoo. Thankfully the younger gen of Indians find Dhoni and Yuvraj more sexy, handsome and Charismatic…

    However our senoir media personal in say NDTV and CNN-IBN who are still living in the eighties are capable of doing gr* damage to the Indian cause by swallowing whatever lies Imraqn belches as the Truth spoke by a demi- God…

    So somwhere we are in the danger zone with Imean Khan, who is not going to be friendly to India but will back the Taliban while some sections of our media will fall over him

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Vijay-

    So did Asif Iqbal opt to live in Pakistan when he was in his 20s-30s? I read somewhere that he ddi his school and college (osmania U) in Hyderabad. So, did he renounce his Indian citizenship and takePak citizenship?

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Raju./Vijay

    Asif Iqbal used to stay in UAE in eighties. He advised Bukhatir to build a stadium
    at Sharjah and cricket started in desert. Their were strong rumours floating around at that time that he was the main person behind betting in cricket. Later Sharjah became
    so notorious not only beacuase of betting but also because Dawood Ibrahim who
    used be regular at these matches and it was fumoured that this Mr. Asif Iqbal and Dawood were very close. After BCCI put a stop to the matches at Sharjah he shifted his base to London. Ofcourse these rumours can never be verified.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    I really have not followed Asif Iqbal’s career too much. I saw him up close in Taj, Delhi a number of times.Yes I know from the gossip circle about the married Indian woman who ran away after media hype was built about the macho power of Pakistani cricketers.

    ” Imran nahi toh uska tattu(horse) sahi” , she would have probably rationalised :D

    @ Mohan

    While I don’t know about Asif’s involvement in math fixing, but what you are saying probably adds up. Dawood’s attendence of those Shrjah mataches was obvious to all. And some of the umpiring decisons and the players style were also not above suspician.

  • shan

    MJ akbar , had a cover photo of imran khan in his edited paper SUNDAY ,with the caption A PERFECT GENTLEMAN.well that is MJ akbar , a closet jihadi.if not jehadi then certainly not rationalist who would call a spade a spade.Jemima khan recently wrote in a sunday magazine ,she supported Imran khan’s pakistan project AD NAUSEUM.her dad Jimmy goldsmith said Imran was good for a FIRST HUSBAND.
    The problem with pakistan for that matter any islamic countries is they cannot progress unless they become secular with full freedom to express whatever you like , like in INDIA.
    I was talking to a young Punjabi guy from Pakistan. I told him that somebody told me of the three groups of punjabis , that is Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims , only Sikhs have a script. Apparently Hindu punjabis learnt about hindu scripture from urdu sources.
    This pakistani shocked me .apparently now in pakistan they have created a new script for punjabi ,it is called SHAHMUKHI, that is urdu script to describe pujabi words like Kuri ,etc.
    Now china is giving a full squadron of J20 to pakistan.India is buying TEN BILLION DOLLAR WORTH OF FIGHTER AIRCRAFT FROM THE COUNTRY revered by Nirad choudhuri.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    There is a joke flying around about Sir Goldsmith and Imran…

    When Imran asked for the “hand” of Jemima, it seems Goldsmith asked him “Oh, what sin did she commit to cut her hand!”

    I think MJ Akbar is cool. How/where did you get the impression he is a closet jehadi? My reading (I am sure I will get nailed by Pakistani Ravi and fellow secularists) is that he is an Indian patriot; and Subramania Swamy will give him exception from taking oath to include in the voter registry

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shan

    I would differ on MJ Akbar. he is genuinly liberal, even though at times I do not agree with his views.

    By the way he acknowledges that his grendfather converted to Islam and does not believe in the we are from Arabia shite..

    his own daughter is named Pragaya.

    I mran Khan sired a daughter which he refuses to acknowlege from an American girl who converted to beccome a HIndu and called herself Sita White. The daughter nemaed Sherbano probably lives in the US.

    The big danger Imran represnst is that the older birds in the Indian media would start cooing and go into flights of fantasy, if and when he ccomes to power…

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Shenoy/Vijay

    I really believe Amma has a 80% chance.; I hope either she or Modi or Nitish gets there.

    There are many things going for Amma:
    - She can speak several langages well; campaigning in the North will come to her liek a second fiddle (her English is flawless, so also all south indan languages and Hindi)
    - She is a very good interviewee on TV
    - She is a very capable leader/administrator
    She has fire in her belly
    - Women (in TN) go gaga for her– She could get wome all over India on her side (she really did a lot for TN women in her role as CM before)
    - She is now looking for legacy — she does not have children or immedite relatives; has made tons of money (she had made a lot o money as an actress; so one cannot ascribe all her money to corruption, although she had a fair share) – she is one who aims and then shoots
    - She has a genuine interest in uplifting people; she understands a good private/public partnership can potentially transform millions of lives for good; she is respected by business and common people (people were afraid of Karnanidhi and his goondas; people are not afraid of Amma, rather they consider her as Amma)

    Above all, she understands she will have to “work” to get her catapulted as the head of a coalition; she is darn good at retail and wholesale politics; the 45 or so MPs from TN will be in her ledger after the next lok sabha election.

    She will “punish” the DMk corruption guys and gals (and Congress corruption towards the election — she is going to make these DMK goondas reveal their congress share later in the process). People will go to jail; she will leverage it all across.

    She will position by making TN the “admired” platform – growth in jobs, womens issues, edu, protection o the weak , jailing the corrupt etc… She wll get media on her side.

    I will put my money on her if I am a Las Vegas oddsmaker.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Raju,

    I agree with you. BJP should form an alliance with her and project her as PM. This
    may get BJP also some seats in South.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Raju and everyone

    Do women let other women rise in case they come to power?/

    Or they are discomforted by any other woman who could steal the limelight in a photoshoot??
    Not trivial but true…. :D

    This is something which has amused me for some time… :D

    I know of one IAS officer– a lady who was posted away from Delhi. Under a very senior woman politican/leader.

    This woman IAS is a fitness freak climbed on to a podioum in a three fast steps, before the very high up woman Minister. And glowing as she is — because of her fitness regime was instantly snapped by the media in attendence.

    The woman politician suddenly became a woman scorned.

    Probably muttered a dialogue like , ” Witch/ chudail… kutiya ki tarah phudak rahi hai… getting all the limelight.” (my imagination of the dialogue) :D

    And the very next week , this senior woman IAS officer was thrown off from her high profile seat to the most inconsequential posting,.

    Moral of the stpry : women politicans are not helping women, somehow… :D

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Vijay,

    Dont even try to understand a woman . (;

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    Such a great words of wisdom !

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    The woman politican I am referring to has the potential to become the PM…

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    They may not allow “other women” to share limelight (In Jaya’s case, she would not allow other men too); but India loves its women PM/leaders

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @Raju

    So they are like Dev Anand. Uski film ke har scene mein kewal wahi hoga…

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Vijay

    Sonia has her way..Mamta hers…Mayawati hers.. Jaya hers.

    Jaya would not have been in politics had the DMK men allowed her to accopany MGR funeral.. She was dragaged down from the hurst; and she made her vow like Draupadi “I wil not tie this hair unss I can use Dussasan’s blood as an oil for the hair”.
    She wouldnt allow anybody to share the dias in her fist administration. Men will prostrate in front of her. She neither enocouraged nor discouraged thoe practices.

    Now she has solidified her position, she wont go for those gymnastics. It is results that count, it is people’s verdict that elects.

    India will be better with Jaya and modi as PM/Dy PM
    l .

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Somebody wrote FRAILTY THY NAME IS WOMAN

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    It’s sad you have not left even the Dy PM post for my idol Advani. Very unfair of you.

    And Amma is good. Ask Vajpayee.

    She could only be checkmated with a Nuclear Explosion !

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Raju

    I have full reason to believe Jaya is an able adminstrator. As such Tamil nadu is doing well for the past two decades.

    however somewhere I know that at the national level you need a leader as the PM a person who is able to take along 20 parties without getting insecure. Out here regional and religious feelings get hurt fast.

    Dont know how she would handle a coalition, where fellow partners would not prostrate themselves before her, but would be as demanding as she was with Atal Bihari Vajpayee…

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Vijay

    She does lead a coalition now (although except one, all the coalition parties benefited from her and not vice versa)

    She will not be a “regional” prson; although HT and other “elite” secular publications will portray her as a “regional” person (isnt it funny, as if there is a “leader”, like Gandhiji, Nehru, or Indira Gndhi for all of India now!)

    She knows when to give, when to take, and when to keep the coalition guessing.

    The only way BJP will win the majority is through an alliance wth her. The only way she will support them is if she wil be given te PMship. Otherwise she will weave through constructing the block needed to win the majority – My instinctstell me that… We will revisit 12 months from now when alliances will start forming

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Raju

    If she becomes the PM with the help of BJP, then there will not be need of another nuclear explosion.

    If she is part of NDA and not the PM, there is would always be need of another nuclear explosion to save the Govt. when she threatens to withdraw the support.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    I think that the Hindu Nationalist Conservative solution to India’s problems is becoming clear in these blogs. This is how they think India would prosper:

    1. India should not talk to Bangladesh or for that matter any MUSLIMS at all.

    2. India should quickly Nuke Bangladesh and put them out of their misery.

    3. They should then herd the entire population of Bihar into Bangladesh while it is still Hot with Radiation.

    4. The Biharis would slowly perish, as they deserve for having the most bimaru state in India.

    5. A new model Ram Rajya should then be established in Bihar.

    (I’ll wait for RAJIEVE, to reverse this scenario WRT to Pakistan, so I will spare my fingers the effort)

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Ravi

    Oye’ what drink did you have on sunday??

    Vilayati kala ghoda mein Desi tharra toh nahi mila diya ??? :D

    Arre bhaiya, all this bagful of allegations seems more like Erica Jong’s fantasies. Or do you want to open a new chapter here of banglasdesh vs Bihar vs Punjab etc. how boring !!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bhai Sahib I am only trying to create a win win situation.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi

    Why suddenly Bangla Desh?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    For the following and other reasons

    nirav says:
    July 30, 2011 at 11:35 pm
    Another invitation to all bangladeshi,pakis and all other congress vote banks…
    Chidambram has opened the borders with bangladesh….

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    So Pakistani–

    Nirav = all bloggers here = all hindu nationalist conservatives?

    And dont you think India/BD border must not be thrown open till illegal migartion etc is resolved?

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    You think what you want to my Hindu Fundo adversary. I advocate Nuking them.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Ohh ! ! SUnday hangover khatam nahi hua… abhi bhi nuke HIndu adversary ki baat…

    I recommend a lemon, to get over the tharra :D

    Mohan R Reply:

    And I thought that Ravi was a sane person.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Saw reference to Asif Iqbal somewhere. He is in many ways one of the fathers of Pak cricket corruption. A state based on a state sponsored religious zealotry and ideology of religious supremacy ( born out of criminal ignorence ) and religious bigotry will infuse every branch with corruption. In seventies/eighties Asif Iqbal had a good image , it became only clear later that he was one of the founding fathers of Pak cricket corruption.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    But the funniest complaint came lately from Pakistan. That since they were not allowed to play the IPL and get that money… they should be allowed ot be corrupt. :D

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    Since I am about to crash into bed, I am leaving my last posting as a question.

    A) Have these continous cries of scam scam rape rape, dented India’s image as a possible destination of global capital? Has India’s image as a socialist country represented by likes of Mani Aiyar and Digvinash, where it is difficult to do business, re-emerged?

    b) And what about the will to tackle terror. Now that Pakistan has finally been stamped as the epicentere of terror with its bed partnership with Osama emerging, is the US gearing up to launch a Iraq type of attack there, in case some other terror attacks start form Paksitani soil? Not now maybe in some future…

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    Vijay

    2) on terrorism – US is still comitted to fight a “worldiwde” initiative. However, the perennial budget deficits, unemloyment, low growth (1.2% annualized as of now) etc is forcing them to rethink.
    I do not think they will go enmasse to any other country now until the two fronts currently are brought back. The jewish lobby is doing everything it can to create an attack on Iran.. But generals will not go fo that.

    The only way they will attack Paksitan is if terror emnating from there does a direct hit on US (like the Mumbai 11/26). US will retaliate and wipe them off if that happens.

    1) Coverage/view/investment etc – Indian coverage has been quite positive. The negative news has been more of a “critical” look — whle India is shining in IT why/how they have not been able to take care of rural health (or rural education) etc. The scams were big news (in print media); but more articulated as the result of a 8% growth — projecting much like today’s India is like the US during robber baron’ days — too much wealth, not enoug regulations, and whoever canget hold of gets ahead..

    Paksitan terrorism and instability has caused admiration for India, with many news anchors saying money should be given to India instead of Pakistan.

    I lso believe that the sudden presence of Indians at the top levels in all walks of life has created a very positive view of India (and Indian education?????) – Indians are everywhere, in the TV/print media, (With prominent felows liek Fareed Zakaria, Hari Vishwanathan, Rajeev Chandrasekharan) ; actors/actresses (Archi Punjabi, Ms Shetty, Shenthil etc), Busness leaders (too many — Ajay banga, mrs Indra Nooyi, Sanjay Jha, Ramani Iyer, Vikrm Pandit, Rajsree Warrier, Anand Nallathambi, Narayan etc; univerity professsors, economists like deven Varma, federal reserve Governor Narayanan, Raghuram Raj (the youngest economist to win many prestigious awards) , Lakshmanan, etc etc..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Binoy

    Well said

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Binoy and Rajiv

    Thanks for the update. need to visit the US soon to see whaz going on there lately.

    My fears being that India should not slip back into the 70’s and 80’s socialist mould as we seem to be hurtling back to dynastic succession which is against the concept of democracy.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @Vijay/Benoy

    Storis of corruption in India are not anything new. In fact, if some corrupt are prosecuted it only helps to improve image. However corruption hurts India and its economic growth.

    USA is on economic decline. That revenue stream is likely to dry out. Pakistan has long depended on easy money, loan write-offs from USA, IMF, WB and food-stamps from SA, China etc as it has indulged in every criminal act and perversion.

    Pakistan, a state born out of copulation of the opportunistic thug, criminal Jinnah and the congenitally ****** Taleban may soon run out of tricks to continue to hoodwink and milk the perenially foolish west.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv

    i think the turning point in Pak-US realtions has come. Even though 9/11 was more or less a Pakistani terror operation, the US was still pampering its favourite illegitimate child. However with Osama emerging from the pajamas and chaddis of Pakastani military establishment, the US is realizing that come what may– ultimately the Pakistanis will not change so easily.

    Maybe if it laucnhes more forceful drone strikes, the revolt in Paksitan will finally break the relationship once for all.

    The CHinese may be feeling gr8 that they now have the rabid dog of jehad– Pakistan– to hunt for them. But it is not an easy rabid dog to handle :D

    Today’s papers talk about Pakistani trained jehadis exploding bombs in Ulghur region of CHina, killing 14.

    Now let CHina welcome its new found dog… and a few terror operations in ints territory… :D

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vijay, Shenoy, Benoy, Gopi and RAVI.
    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Swaminomics/entry/the-unexpected-rise-of-dalit-millionaires
    Must read for all bloggers.
    This is the India, we are striving to achieve, through education and equal opportunity.
    It is worthless to blame Indians,( Hindus) for the all ills of this magnificient country.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj

    I like the general tone of this article and very much welcome it.

    However, there are some points that I would like to make.

    1. I look forward to the day when an article like this is written without the adjective “unexpected” attached to it.

    2. Why is there still a need for a “Dalit Chambers of Commerce” could their needs not have been satisfied by the existing normal chambers of commerce. That tells you some thing.

    3. Bhagwan Gawani, despite his education, was the subject of work place caste discrimination

    4. I like Bhagwan Gawani, he is an Indian success.

    5. In many of these cases Education has been a pre-requisite to success. For generations, no thousands of years in India Dalits were deprived of education and now they have access to education and success is following.

    6. “dalit businessmen hide their caste identity to avoid social sigma and loss of business. That mentality sorely needs to change.” Just shows you how far we still have to go.

    7. The Bandhwa Movement, with who I have some work, needs to succeed and bring an end to bonded labour schemes.

    8. The left does not necessarily have all the solutions, but what they have is empathy.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi;
    I am happy that you took this article in right spirit. No body has ever denied that casteism exists, rather strongly in hinterlands. What this article and other statistics have confirmed that India is moving in right direction. No denial to problems but a will to solve them. As I have emphasised, key to the solution is education along with Health and equal opportunities for all.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Amen

  • pankaj#1

    Mahesh;
    I am sorry, a crisis in company will not let me have some free time. I will not be able to suggest some thing for you at this time. Reference and recommendation is treated as big responsibility here.
    Thanks

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    Gr8 article. Inspriing. Ultimately the back of the caste system is broken– not thru politicans who seek votes along caste lines– but by democracy and economic growth.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Dr Pankaj- the title of swami’s article is wrong- it should read as-
    the EXPECTED rise of dalit millionaires

    Dear Mr Lahori Ravi- this is ground reality of india, not what u learn in twisted pakistan media- and this is what exposes you as not indian
    yeh khabar suntey hi isko mirchaan lag gayi hongee

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    This is a blatant attempt at POLITICISATION of chillies.

    Every one knows that South Indian food uses chillies in more appropriate form.

    North Indians particularly the families of Challa Sikhs in Hayes have as yet not learnt how to treat chillies with respect.

    They have managed to teach their children, not to rub their eyes after cutting chillies, but this learning has not been extended to, when they indulge in other despicable acts which involve contact with other delicate parts of their body.

    The Ealing Hospital has a separate ward where Challa Sikh’s children are pacified after conjugal contact between chilly covered fingers and genitalia.

    I think Balwinder should run a Poll of why blatant attempts are being made to POLTICISING of chillies.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    This is the sort of thesis angana chaterjee would probably write to get funds for her fake NGO’s from the ISI.

    I hope you are not targeting the same…. :D

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    My target was a single individual.

    I am long passed my having to write thesis days.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Pankaj, you made my day Sirjee- dalit millionaires- Ambedkar’s angry soul would rest easy

    @ SHAN- to call MJ Akbar a closet jihadi displays your stooopid brain. The man is the biggest patriot and all my Pakistani friends here in UK absolutely detest him (although they secretly read all his writings obsessively).

    @SHAN- YOUR QUOTE reeks of cheap arrogance- “”"I am not a great follower of prophet but I am an ardent admirer of Islamic civilization….when I criticize ,it is to show light , when you critisize it is your cow belt background showing through.”"”"

    I pity your future wife- what a cheap boaster you are. I am always right, you are wrong

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    actually let me amend that- I pity your future wife or your future male partner. Nothing against gays, but you do have something of the bobby darling about you
    hehe

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    You are a congenital MORON, an imbecile with a negative IQ

    [Reply]

  • B.V .SHENOY

    Vijay Kumar, Pankaj ji, Balwinderji, Rajeev, Gopi, Raju, Mohan and Rajiv,

    Here is a thought:

    Give the next five years to Narendra Modi and he will make Gujarat into a Singapore.
    Give the next five years to Yeddyurappa and he will buy Singapore!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    I doubt very much. Singapore is secular. Gujarat will not be.

    [Reply]

    B.V .SHENOY Reply:

    Pakistan will soon be (in Allah’s kingdom, that is)

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    And you will be भगवन भरोसे

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_URSXATBEMZ7HUAB3OH36PLYWDM Ashok

    When Raj asks people on voting day to give him power so that he can show them what he can do, they too will say Tomorrow.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Kashmiris have a right to settle anywhere in India but not vice versa. Selective integration. All discriminatory legislation need to be reworked. It is a recipe for separatism not integration. By your yardstick, Kashmir is basically an Indian protectorate and entitled to benefits but not vice versa. By the way I am not a Bihari but am proud of the great Indian state of Bihar which produced Nalanda university, the Buddha, Babu Rajendra Prasad and Babu Jaya Prakash Narain.

    [Reply]

  • Abhiroop Banerjee

    One of the best compliments anyone has given me is ‘aah, you create stuff..’ All I did was make an elaborate joke that made that someone laugh a bit! But it sort of put into perspective what, just oh-my-god what an achievement it must be to create an original novel. or a haiku.

    The increasingly shrill demands for content to be made available gratis makes me both happy and nervous at the same time. Happy because it means I’ll save money, obviously. Nervous because free stuff is, frequently and sadly, either not good enough or, stuffed with advertisements or the artist producing it is under the control of the sponsor/patron. Artists on a King’s dole would only produce stuff that will please said King. I want my artists to be independent and rich.

    On the other hand, I am pretty sure that if advertisements were to be taken out, I would almost certainly be unable to afford art/content. It is as alarming to hear about newspapers around the world shutting down as it is to think how much my newspaper will cost me without those ridiculous full cover-page adverts or that page full of laughably competitive obits. Still, if staring at imprisonment for downloading bootlegged art, I’d rather pay for my entertainment and get whatever I can afford than be lumped with ‘free’.

    Cover charge, ticket prices in the olden days? Like old olden?

    *Imagines* …giant, steaming foundry with Egyptian slaves frantically pounding Nero’s bust onto fat bronze discs to be sold as admission tickets for the imminent 67 AD Olympics, with special gold medallions for the chariot race which the Emperor is rumoured to enter with his almighty, unheard of, ten-horse chariot!

    …King Uthiyan Cheralatan stomping off in a huff in the middle of a recital because his soldiers couldn’t control the mass of ticketless fans which barged right into his court to witness the poetry duels during that year’s Tamil Poetry Sangam

    …the Bard goes ballistic when a smarmy lout in tight purple breeches offers him a counterfeit ticket to that evening’s sold out show of Hamlet at the Globe

    …ok now i am overdoing it. but this blog? I dig.

    [Reply]

  • Pranav Dixit

    Here in the US, there’s a lot of subscribers paying a flat, monthly fee to websites like Netflix and Hulu. Essentially, you pay about $8 a month and watch a ton on TV shows (including past seasons) and movies on-demand via the internet. People have actually cancelled cable connections at home (quite a few, but not the most effective strategy as you tend to miss out on live events like the Oscars, for instance).

    I don’t see this happening in India any time soon (awful internet speeds to begin with) but if/when it does, it will be a game changer in my opnion. essentially, you wil stop caring about what ‘channel’ you get and simply pay for only the shows you want or a flat fee each monthto access them all.

    [Reply]

  • SAMIR

    good article.

    [Reply]

  • Ritesh

    This is an intelligent and well reasoned rant, I am ashamed that while we have people in power, there are no leaders in India.

    [Reply]

  • Jaichands of India

    The bitter fact is that both Centre and the Maharashtra governments failed dismally; yet India rewarded them with a resounding win in 2009. Therefore, the people of India actually do deserve what they get. Tough, but unavoidable. The reality is also that at that time the Vir Sanghvi’s (later day Jaichands) were singing paens of the rotten governments and now come up with the facts that they always knew to be the truth. These traitors are equally culpable.

    [Reply]

  • Mythbreaker

    we are a soft state question is can we survive as a soft state in 21 century you loose security you loose it all there should be no compromise on internal security that means no appeasement of any community
    India does need a right wing nationalist moment

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001904292850 Raj Singh

    Dude well written and good research work.

    [Reply]

  • Cheryllne

    Thank you for this timely piece. Exquisitely and thoughtfully written.

    [Reply]

  • Akash Satyawali

    I really don`t understand what was meant to be conveyed by the article. Let me start with the last line where you say, it took the nation to handle those terrorists, and the price was paid by Bombay. You seem to toe the line of Shiv Sena here. And the part on the authorities should have informed the media o not cover it, didn`t the media have that sense? At places you narrate it like you were there present when everything took place. I mean what do you exactly think this is? A movie? Whatever happened should surely not be repeated, another thing that does not need to be repeated is an article as such. Just dont understand why people have voted it 5 on5, when other posts happen to be better.

    [Reply]

  • SK

    Hindsight is 20-20, which is what Vir is harping on. It possibly could have been prevented, as was 9/11, but that is an irrelevant question today. Today the question that needs to be asked is what has changed to prevent something like this from happening again? Is there better coordination in place between the intelligence agencies, and how fast is the reaction time once there is an intelligence input. What organisational changes are in place to intercept the next terror attack, whether home grown or from across the border.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/jyothi.shankaran.1 Jyothi Shankaran

    How true. So much information and nobody acted. What a shame! And we were acting as if we were taken by surprise! So, how did the govt come back to power in 2009?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    It’s always easy to do post analysis and blame. Given the Indian geography, population composition, maturing democracy and very many other factors, it’s very difficult to draw certain strategies. We also suffer from enemy within, which make life even more difficult. It’s probably only the time which will make us more responsible in tackling such terror related problems.
    By the way lets also respect the fact that Bombay was renamed to it’s original name Mumbai. If journalist like Vir doesn’t follow the protocol, how do you expect ordinary people of India would?

    [Reply]

  • patriot

    You can not really say all failed Bombay on 26/11 but blame it on poor adminstration and police who is nothing but”Nikami”Please watch Farid Zakaria HBO made documentry on 26/11.Many of our problems are because of Congress party who has appeased all along muslims and that is why we have some enemies within.Corruption is another evil ailment which is part and parcel of Congress party and if you look honestly we have chaos every where.Surprisingly this party is winning again and again because of solid muslims and majority Christian votes.We need immediate change and new honest educated party otherwised we are doomed and there will be no end like Bombay carnage.After 26/11 our Government is doing business with Pakistan as usual like nothing has happened.

    [Reply]

  • raj

    ok, we had intel about this, but when polic start investigation, so called secular brigade will shout innocent slims harassed. when police hv proof of bombs, again secular brigade will shout, police don’t know about bombs, and even its a bomb it was not exploded. after explosion, what use in catching terrorist, when they work from pakistan, so we should improve relationship with pakistan to get culprits. you are alos member of this brigade , mr vir… stop this crocodile tears.
    its reading articles like this which makes me angry.

    [Reply]

  • Ramesh Kumar

    First of all ,instead of attack on Mumbai ,we must say it was attack on India.THe biggest tragedy of the nation is ,we talk as if it was a local incident.IT WAS NOT ATTACK OM MUMBAI BUT ON INDIA.
    Remember initial reactions of pm and other congress leaders.what happened after few months ,we were sending dossiers to pakistan.IS THIS THE WAY TO DEAL ATTACK ON SOVERGNITY OF A NATION.
    Media was playing its role.You could hear sentences like ,how fast life in mumbai became normal.What do we expect from those who are not dead,not to work ,not to eat or live.
    People after cremating even their dear ones has to become normal.
    I feel sad on whole approach.

    [Reply]

  • KSAM

    I am sad to read the story and he is right that our force could save the people but i think this was a planned attack on Mumbai and some big shots were involved. in one sentence i will say This was happened to eliminate The Great Karkare the ATS chief.For this shameful attack we will blame our Leaders(Both from congress and BJP RSS ShivSena) those are selling the country for their selfishness.At that time where were our bravo Shiv Sainiks those say they are nationalist.

    [Reply]

  • Asifiya

    We can expect this from our politicians but Muslims who call Islam a religion of peace can carry this massacre of civilians in name of Islam is more shocking. Besides 26/11, Mumbai has been hit many times by terrorists- all Indian Muslims- acting in name of Islam. This is something we need to debate as well.

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/aumshanti1 aum shanti

    veer sanchvi is kayar sanghvi who is anti national congress’s paid anti national who is hired by hindustan times to get more advertisements

    [Reply]

  • Raj Nath

    For this Dalal, every one can fail, but the only infallible is the Corrupt Party and its Italian ex-maid, University-drop out “hope of the nation” etc etc.
    Sure we know how inept our Police are: didn’t Haji Mastaan, Karim Lala and then Dawood ibrahim build huge fortunes and operate “large-scale operations” with impunity for decades?
    Who are to blame, the police officials whose hands get tied by our beloved Gandhian Congress-men, and inured into protecting the turfs of their political masters or the political leaders who have not only emasculated our police and Army. Our judiciary that permits anti-nationals to conspire against our nation and go hammer and tongs against political rivals, who are out of power?
    There is a large-scale systematic conspiracy of weakening the nation and looting of the treasury, just pointing at the police who are at the receiving end and have to fend for themselves and expecting them to give up their lives when they have paid huge amounts to secure a job, obtained sans merit, is expecting a potato to do the work of a sword in that crucial moment of test of character.

    [Reply]

  • sandeep deshmukh

    Mr. veera Sangvi article is nothing bt the same pompous trumpeting about all that is under the sun and hw he has the best knowledge about it. the fact of the matter is Veera Sanghvi is urban coctail drinking and 5star seelping urchin who never sees how the rest have FAILES MUMBAI, but yeah, VEERA SANGVHI is up in arms when something remotest happens to the neo-rich.

    [Reply]

  • patriot

    Why telling all failed Bombay on 26/11 when it was adminstration and “Nikammi”police responsible for it.But our Government is doing business with terrorist country Pakistan as usual like nothing happened on 26/11 and LeT is now threatning to attack on Vishno Devi temple in Jammu.Untill and unless appeasement by our Government will not stop to muslims we will be always in trouble.It was big mistake to keep muslims after partition.Please see documentry on Mumbai terror narrated by Farid Zakaria and produced by HBO.

    [Reply]

  • Girish Kumar

    Why Sanghvi has not spoken a word against the media, which was broadcasting the events live and giving out details on the location of hostages, the placement of snipers, the movement of the police and commandos? Apart from the government, the media is equally culpable in its amateur handling of the 26/11 events.

    [Reply]

  • KP

    sensible comparison

    [Reply]