Chodo kal ki baten …but will they?



The UPA Government is stumbling from one crisis to another at a time India needs political stability, clean governance and robust policy making. Hit by a hail of corruption charges, the coalition regime is busy fire fighting with little or no evidence of it being in command of the administration.

An IAS couple I’ve known for some years were visiting Delhi from a nearby state the other day. They told me that work was at a standstill in most key ministries at the centre with ministers and bureaucrats unwilling to stick their necks out. Things are unlikely to improve anytime soon regardless of the changes Manmohan Singh makes in his council of ministers.

The inertia that has come to grip governance must be addressed quickly as questions staring India in the face cannot await answers, given their long term implications for our economy, national security and parliamentary democracy.

Our western neighborhood is in flames; international powers are reneging on sovereign assurances for transfer of nuclear know-how. Either challenge is crucial to India’s standing in the world, its security and its economy, quite central to which is energy security. Long overdue systemic changes such as the institution of a Lok Pal and other mechanisms to check corruption and ensure transparency need a national consensus that finds forceful expression in parliament.

That’s too much of a tall order for a discredited regime low on confidence and facing an Opposition whose adversarial approach border on enmity. If the drift continues unabated, a government of national consensus will be the only way to steer India out of the prevailing mess.

I say this because elections— even in the outside chance of being held early— are unlikely to throw up a stable arrangement. Political parties have to place limits on partisan politics and learn to work with each other —- a proposition easier made than achieved amid the obtaining conflict of interest.

How can it be made possible? I cannot think of a fool-proof option. Perhaps the two largest parties in Parliament holding the PM’s office or leading the government by rotation could be a model that’ll last five or ten years.
The politico might lack the consciousness and the ability to make any such bipartisan arrangement work. But India needs it for radical policy initiatives and systemic overhaul.

Remember the Bollywood classic that made Indians hum in unison some decades ago: “Chodo kal ki baten, kal ki baat purani….Naye daur me likhkhen ge hum milkar naye kahani, hum Hindustanti, hum Hindustani….”

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  • http://- Rajeev

    Vinod Sharma ki tabiat bahut kharaab hai..Bhaiyaa koyi auto dila do… :)

    [Reply]

    funny Side Reply:

    Its the heap of money, spread of business and size of economy thats making all the opposition yearning to be in power. Who would like to sit it out in the Opposition when a river of lucre is flowing by – bahti ganga hai, chahey jitni bhi polluted, ishnan karna hi hai bhayya – kinara par dry as a bone baith kar kiya karogey?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Totally agree with you. The opposition is jealous that Maa/Beta party is eating all the Malai.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    No Vinod WHAT IS NEEDED NOW IS A VERY ENERGISED OPPOSITION.
    Where we need a Sardar Patel in charge of BJP, we have a Jagjivan Ram.
    Where we need a Milkha Singh in charge of communists, we have a cheap bicycle- of a discarded Chinese model

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    even Baba Ramdev fizzled out

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    how could you even consider Baba Ramdev as a serious alternative to anything or anybody?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    No offence. Ramdev may have good intention but is a complete joker. For the first time, I dared listening to Ramdev (aap ki adalat). He is witty but lacks any kind of intellect.

    shan Reply:

    Because of dari , physical similarity

  • shan

    @Vinod sharma, very pertinent points you have raised, and quite frightening really , PERHAPS IT IS TIME FOR MMS TO GO, there is no one of the stature of Indira Gandhi , and certainly not a SINGLE intellectual of any standing. India’s agriculture is in stone age . They should go for CO OPERATISATION of agriculture.All the pattawaris coalesce and form a holding of 100 acre , the land gives them a share of the company , the rest is floated onthe market, massive investment then can be accrued from banks for heavy machinary, INTENSIVE MECHANISED FARMING, the land holders can be employed in the company , which is to be run by profession managers and agroscientist.
    With the incipient entree of MASS RETAILING this will fit in nicely.
    nEXT IS EDUCATION. cOMPULSORY BY STATUTE , IF PARENTS DONT SEND THEIR CHILDREN WILL INCUR JAIL SENTENCE FOR 3 MONTHS(as it happens in UK)
    Education should be TOTALLY VIRTUAL beamed over the satellite like Tv channels. This will give STANDARDISED TEACHING , NO TEACHER ABSENTEESM,high quality teaching , which is pre fabricated.
    Instead of teachers there should be LIFE COACHES , to guide them , help them , help with home work etc.ONE FULL DAY ONLY SPORTS AND GAMES (like in France)
    If you think it is worth your while , please pass it on to the people in the corridors of power , to whom you have unfettered access.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Thanks for acknowledging that UPA 2 is in tatters !! :D

    Now here is a diagnosis of why and how.

    a) It all started with your pal Mani Silencer Aiyar levelling charges that 70,000 crores had been wasted in the CWG. Well there was a lot of corruption but having seen the CWG from close I would say the kickabcks were probably 2-300 crores. The reast was a media hype.

    Unfortunately Mani Shankar fed the media with suggestive direct and indirect inneundo. There was no one man enough in the UPA to say that only 3000 crores was spent on the games and rest was on infrastrucure

    b) Rahul and Digvijay may seem to be the darlings of the English speaking media. They convince nobody. Digvijay with his pro LeT adn pro jehadi utterances have only hurt the feelongs of the people.

    By belittling the legacy of MMS, to pave way for Rahul, they have somehow conveyed the message that MMS is a weak PM while Rahul will be youthfull.

    One way the Congress had built bridges with the Sikh community was thru the nomination of MMS. Unfortunately, Digvijay and Arjun Singh with Rahul’s consent has insulted him. That bridge has been destroyed.

    c) My making light of the Janata’s feelings on corruption thru spokesmen like Manish Tewari and Singvi have shouted rape rape modi aaya and rape rape Yeedy gaya, everytime COngress corruption has come up. This has fooled no one…

    Wish we had a Atal in the opposition…

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    In pune, Digvijay Singh defended ‘Brother’ Kalmadi and another Chor Maharashtra ex-CM Chavan..

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    To make matters worse for the Congress, Modi has gone about his job swiftly, efficiently and intelligently.

    And he does’nt shout “rape rape… Digvinash and Yuvraj aaya.” :D

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Latest news, Bobby Darling wants to marry Rahul Gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    The good news is that India will not see offspring of Rahul Gandhi. Digvijay ko mubarakbad…

    http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link/Entertainment/Television/Bobby-Darling-wants-to-marry-Rahul-Gandhi

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Vijay you belittle corruption – “”"having seen the CWG from close I would say the kickabcks were probably 2-300 crores. The reast was a media hype”"”

    Even 10 crores should be punished- set higher standards.
    I was going to vote for Vijay to be next PM, not anymore. Bhaut dheela dhaala munda hai

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    O Ballu my dear !!

    Never belitlled corrutpion. Never never never….

    But one thing I have learnt in life the hard way. Get a right perspective on the problem and then attack it.

    When you say 70000 crores and then end up looking for 200 crores… the HIndustani janata gets puzzled. It feels that the govt is hiding something.

    A congrss spokesman should have come out and said– ” the games hae cost us say 3000 crores and not 70000 crores We feel that 300 crores may hae gone as kickbacks. We will trace it out and punish the guilty”

    That is it.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Vinodji;
    Today, you have risen higher in my esteem. This is the kind of piece that is the need of the hour. Petty bickering amongst political parties are hurting our nation in an incalculable way. May be from far afar, things become a bit clearer to me. No Indian in his right senses should act in a manner, which hurts national interests. For all practical purposes, this is the only institution which will safeguard interests of indians world over, before a global government takes shape. Starting from today, Aapke Saat khoon maaf.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Fellow bloggers;
    Even after this piece, if you are finding fault here, then, I will say you are partisan and biased. I am no sychophant, least of Vinodji, but a good work require appreciation. Not doing it is as bad as ignoring bad work.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    Vinod has not pointed any fingers towards real culprit but I accept that he is trying make amends. This blog is welcome but I still feel Vinodji ki tabiyat kharaab hai.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    you are a man with a golden heart, a true Indian, who, the moment the opponenent shows the white flag, tend to invite him to your dining table and share your wine with him.

    We cannot lose sight of the enormous mess the UPA has so non-challantly created. Unless there is a full-scale balance sheet for the last seven years of an economist PM’s rule, the simple folks in the villages who come to vote in droves wouldn’t know why they are called to vote again.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy sahab;
    Thanks for the compliment, but I think you are missing the point. believe me, these are very trying times. North West is in turmoil, a big upheaval is taking place there, which may harm us enormously. There is time for finer analysis. abhi to yahi kahna chahoonga ki aisa na ho:
    lamhon ne khata ki, aur sadiyon ne saza paayi.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy sahab;
    Congress is not MY enemy, by extension, I would like to say it is not enemy of India. There are some wayward people, corruption and everything, we should try to improve the situation but congress is not our mortal enemy. It is cobra Zia and ideology espoused by people like him, that is our enemy. Even after 100 white flags, I will always count my fingers, after a hand shake with any one of that ilk.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Pankaj#1

    The real problem in India is hypocrisy of everybody. Nobody seem to sincere in anything. Only thing everybody is sincere is in prejudice and cowardice.

    The moment one select somebody as model only to find in next moment that HERO HAS FEET OF CLAY.

    You must have noticed how much Herculean effort was required to put your VInod Sharma to make any comment about Hindu genocide in Pakistan.

    This is the real India. Faux-anthing and everything.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Observer;
    I was amused to read, My Vinod Sharma. You have no idea, how much I have criticized Vinod in previous blogs. As I said, my only interst here is to see a safe and prosperous India because of my emotional attachment. If you go even 35/40 years back, Congress was a reasonably functioning party with inner democracy and not too much corruption. Given our situation then, with rampant illiteracy and poverty, it was easy to have venal, corrupt and dictatorial people in power position, but everything was not starkly bad. Things are sliding down, gradually since then, in front of our own eyes and precipitously since last 20/25 years. A strong , viable, efficient and corruptionless political party is the need of hour. Though utopian, one should strive towards that goal. I say, BJP is less corrupt,( though not totally devoid of this trait) more disciplined, but if it comes to power without check and balances, it will fall in the same situation as congress. That is the influence of unbridled power. Being in industry, I believe more in negotiation than in confrontation, unless, it is absolutely essential. There is a political party, Congress, let us strive to improve it and then we can have a healthy bipartisan polity in India and for that, I think, Congress should be dispossed, from power for at least one or two terms, for need of introspection and possible correction. My previous posts were on those lines.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @pankaj#1

    Your diagnosis is right. There need to be check and balances. In Congress there was check and balances, until Vallabhbhai Patel was alive, as there was dynamic Balance of power. After that Nehru had ensured there was no one with such stature in Congress. Kamaraj plan was brought in to eliminate potential challenge in form of Morarji Desai and Lal Bahadur Shastri.

    Lal Bahadur Shastri became prime minister only because Morarji refused to accept Indira as compromise candidate in form of Indira, proposed by dynasty sycophant Mishra. We all know what happened since then.

    Dynasty will never go for internal democracy or leadership convention like what happens in West.

    So until India people reject dynasty totally there will be no major change, may be cosmetic one.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Observer;
    Dynasty? What dynasty. These Gandhis are fake Gandhis. Nothing to do with MKG or even Nehru. I am not all that old as you may infer, but I had been there and I had seen all. I had been near to the raw (not RAW) Indian power center, seen but untouched or corrupted by that. What I am seeing now, is, pygmies, struggling at the base of the Totem pole, very oily one, trying to climb to top. So much can be achieved, such a big potential, Indians have only seen only , not seen, but may be, have sensed only, potential, what can be achieved. Gaon basa nahin, Lootere pahle aagaye. Indians should be wary, study other successful nations, take lessons from them, otherwise, history will repeat it self and a mighty nation will be defeated by barbarians and low lives.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Observer, Pankaj ji,

    you said, “Your diagnosis is right. There need to be check and balances.”

    There are now cheques and cash and bank balances.
    Actually so few cheques and so much cash.
    All hawala and foreign bank accounts.

    Yet, the rajmata has no car!

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    She is really BEKAR.

    Observer Reply:

    B.V Shenoy

    Personally I do not have so much low opinion of her. AS NRI I do not share Indian prejudice against foreigners. I have more respect for her than Indira Gandhi.

    Sonia started out as good person, to the extent of discouraging Rajiv to go to politics.She is example of good person getting corrupt when surrounded by corrupt people., She really did not plan to be the real power in India. In contrast, Indira Gandhi was was bad to begin with and corrupted everybody around her. She deserved Bhindranvale.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Observer,

    I know how you feel about a foreign-born white lady alone in India suffering hell with two lovely children and facing poisoned barbs from at least fifty crores of people. If your heart goes out to her, it is natural. But, consider this:

    She was clever enough to be on the right side of Indira Gandhi while the Sardarni, Menka could get nothing right in the royal household.

    She didn’t apply for Indian citizenship for sixteen long years after marrying the prince of India!

    She is reported to have taken shelter in the Italian embassy with her children during the pogrom.

    She is also said to be sitting on a huge cache of hoarded money in Swiss banks.

    In 1996, she was definitely dreaming of becoming the PM with her most infamous, most regrettable declaration, “We have 272!”

    Even in 2004, she put on an act of sacrifice by declining the prime ministership, while the truth is that she went to the President to stake her claim, but was advised by President Kalam that she possibly cannot become the prime minister as she is Italian born and there is no reciprocal understanding between her own country and the adopted one about this.

    Considering all these facts, I think she is easy to be misguided, she is easy to be scared and she is most definitely unfit to be anything other than the presidente of her party. She and her party desrve each other.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    time for some light relief. On Zia’s blog, Shan says- “””Given the choice i wouldn’t like to raise a family or settle in bangladesh “””

    SHAN babu, that is not going to happen. Actually SHAN the chances of any Indian girl wanting to marry a Nirad Chowdhry clone like yourself is pretty slim. Even English girls go for Indian munde who are proud of themselves.

    Dhobi ka ….., naa ghar ka naa ghaat ka
    ——————-
    sorry too good to resist

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Certainly not going for GOLD DIGGER sardarni

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Oh yes , they all become TUNTUN after knocking off the first chavy

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Shan,

    As admirer of BOLLYWOOD tell me how many Indian guys find spouse or girl-friend by singing songs?

    I think Bollywood only makes wandering street romeos.

    Compare to that Hollywood is far more realistic.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Observer, well bollywood is bollywood , hollywood is hollywood,. Just like we cant do without our chawal and dal and sabji and garam masala , their’s is sage, oregano, resemary, thyme etc.
    I wouldn’t cook baigan varta with sage , similarly I wouldn’t put put garam masala in a soup.
    Now bollywood tends to ape hollywood , many of them are bodily lifted, THE HARYANA BUILDER SHOULD NOTE , NONE OF THEM IN BOLLYWOOD NOW WEAR SARI.But I think still all the arab world and africa and even eastern europe relate with bollywood. Also 90% of hollywood fare is c r a p , like Xman and what not cops and robbers mostly, but some are outstanding.

  • B.V.SHENOY

    The first WHITE FLAG has just gone up signalling the “we surrender”.

    The UPA should immediately give the reigns to Sonia Gandhi with Rahul as her deputy. They should be given six months to turn the governance around. I have suggested this to rule out the possiblity of some amongst our intelligentsia and media later saying that they are capable but an ungrateful country didn’t use their talents for running the government. They should either deliver or accept that the Indian ethos is beyond their comprehension.

    The so called economic wizard, MMS has proved himself to be utterly inept, incompetent and without a clue as to how to manage the country. He should voluntarily step behind in the immediate next reshuffle.

    A national economic emergency should be declared, leading to general elections which should be concluded within a span of 45 days. There should be no electioneering, as the entire country is fully aware that the UPA cannot be trusted with another term.

    The congress party should declare ceasefire for exactly one year for the new government to set the ecvonomy on a recovery course.

    AND VINOD SHARMA SHOULD BE APPOINTED MEDIA ADVISOR TO THE NEW OPPOSITION.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    “MMS has proved himself to be utterly inept’

    by cunning ways of Sonia/Rahul and their dogs especially Diggi.

    MMS is basically a Babu who follows orders.

    Infact Sonia/Rahul has proved themselves to be utterly inept.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev,

    what you say is true to a large extent. But, nearly the whole of the country is enamoured of the white skinned Rajmata and the equally fair-skinned yuvraj. Therefore unless these two take power in their white hands and rule the country at least for six months, and declare their failure to continue, the aam aadmi cannot be disabused of his fantasy that this white skinned parivar has been God’s gift to a leaderless India.

    [Reply]

  • ishwar

    Let the same proposition come from one of the official spokespersons (I don’t think Mr. Sharma is one) and the opposition would consider it.

    Until then, the attack should not relent.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Too many issues, too few good men…

    There are several little things that could be done to shore up, while figuring out how to get the big things done. But, a deaftoned congress that is totally clueless is paralysed , both at the state level and at the Centre.

    For example, in Kerala, the key election issue was corruption – the ex CM Achuthanandan very effectively used it; most of the youngsters, irrespective of party, voted for him. However, congress led coalition won (because of their partner Muslim League) by a razor thin margin of 2 seats.

    So, what does the congress do – they have ministers against whom cases are pending, they are reinstating bureaucrats/police who have been suspended for corruption and criminalities (one senior officer under NIA investigation for providing assistance to LeT) — Oomen Chandy, the CM, explains its away that “a case does not mean they are convicted”.

    Instead of embracing a Lokpal bill or at a minimum not taking tainted ministers, Congress is fighting against or giving a perception of that they are not with the people.

    BJP is not much different either.

    As regards to MMS, he is a good order taker. Looks like Mrs Gandhi wants to have the acke and eat it too. On one side, she ahs stated that she does not want to be PM. However, either she, or her son (which i doubt), or trusted ppartners like Diggie is pulling all the chains. Mrs Gandhi should stop public humiliation of MMS by her trusted partners.

    MMS should appoint strong ministers when he rushuffle stomorrow – Sm krishna should be out, Antony should be out, Montekwala should be in, and may be some capable businessmen/bureaucrats — Congress leaders should be convinced that the party will win the next election only if they can put a good show now

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    :D :D ~~~ MMS should rebel like PV Rao did !! :D :D

    To save the COngress and his legacy, MMS should develop his own wings. And fly away…

    He should remember PV Narasimha Rao who flew away from his props like Kesari…

    He should get inspired by Indira who flew away from the Syndicate…

    In front of them, Digvinash and Yuvraj are small fry…

    He did a good job as a Finance Minster in Rao’s cabinet.

    Now he is being fettered by the shengainians of the Congress drama artists. If he was allowed to speak directly to Indians, I am sure he would win back the confidence of India.

    I think he should put aside his diffodence and growl back at Digvinash and show his anger at the Rajmata and Yuvraj for being used by them They will scamper a million miles away…

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    The only problem is that MMS is a coward or morally corrupt.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajeev

    Let me differ from you on this.

    MMS is probably not a coward. Just too decent. He knows that Sonia got him on the Pm’s chair and does not want to insult her.

    But he should just say enough is enough. Let me do the job the way I ran a Minsitry. In my own gentle sort of way….

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Unfortunately his decency borders on Cowardice. The scams have crossed all limits and it is time he behave as PM and not as an Sonia’s darbari.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajeev

    Now lett me rise above my bias just the way Vinod Sharma did when he penned this blog…

    Maybe Vinod had tried Black Dog instead of JB so the truth has come out tumbling from his pen :D

    But I am sober right now…

    The problem with this government is the wrong kind of spokemen who start denying everything and are not intelligent enough to explain to the public that 70000 crores was not bribe. 176000 crores was not rishwat. It was probably 3% of the figures. And we will get it back…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    Black Dog or White Horse only affect the head. It is the emotions which stir the heart. I think Vinodji’s emotions are overflowing. I also guess he has seen the shape of things to come, now that MMS is on the wane and the Digvinash-yuvraj team is on the verge of a mildly hostile take-over of the government of India.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Would be a sad day for India, whenever that happens.

    If the Yuvraj occupies the chair– Digvinash would be the puppeteer.

    And if Digvinash occupies the chair– LeT would be the puppeteer :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    I had a strong feeling that Kalmadi, after getting a fresh coat of white wash at the hands of Digvinash Singh, would be appointed the new sports minister.

    Luckily, Manmohan Singh has his screws in place and they are tight.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    CROSS POLLINATION GUYS !!!

    On Zia’s blog a veteran Pak blogger called Ziauddin Shafi has made one of his rare appearances and posted a mile long post. You are all invited to join the bitter battle of words in our own unique civil polite Indian way.
    Calling Dr Pankaj, Ashish, Ballu, Shenoy, Gopi, Vijay, Hegde, Kurien and most esp- Shoeb K and Dr Shah Alam- a rebuttal by an Indian muslim esp the most articulate ones on this blog- carries weight.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Stop patronizing others especially Indian muslims.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Just to Update your General Knowledge, it looks like Rajiv Gandhi is about to become Father of the nation soon.

    Living Beings

    - Farmers: Rajiv Gandhi Grameen Vidyutikaran Yojana
    - Children: Rajiv Gandhi National Crèche Scheme for the Children of Working Mothers
    - Unemployed: Rajiv Gandhi Shramik KalyanYojna
    - Artists: Rajiv Gandhi Shilpi Swasthya Bima Yojana
    - Slum Dwellers: Rajiv Ratna Awas Yojna
    - Students: Rajiv Gandhi Prathamik Shiksha Mission, Raigarh
    - Handicapped: Rajiv Gandhi Home for Handicapped, Pondicherry
    - All Humanity: Rajiv Gandhi Manav Seva Award
    - Animals: Rajiv Gandhi (Nagarhole) Wildlife Sanctuary, Karnataka
    Rajiv Gandhi Wildlife Sanctuary, Andhra Pradesh
    Rajiv Gandhi Wildlife Conservation Award

    Food and Water

    - Food Security: Rajiv Gandhi Mission on Food Security , Madhya Pradesh
    Rajiv Gandhi Food Security Mission for Tribal Areas, MP
    - Breakfast: Rajiv Gandhi Breakfast Scheme, Pondicherry
    - Drinking Water: Rajiv Gandhi National Drinking Water Mission
    - Ground Water: Rajiv Gandhi National Ground Water Training & Research Institute, Faridabad, Haryana
    - Tsunami: Rajiv Gandhi Rehabilitation Package for Tsunami Affected Areas

    Mega-Structures

    - Airport: Rajiv Gandhi International Airport , New Hyderabad , A.P.
    - Container Terminal: Rajiv Gandhi Container Terminal, Cochin
    - Commercial Centre: Rajiv Chowk, New Delhi

    - Stadiums: Rajiv Gandhi Sports Stadium, Bawana
    Rajiv Gandhi National Football Academy, Haryana
    Rajiv Gandhi AC Stadium, Vishakhapatnam
    Rajiv Gandhi Indoor Stadium, Pondicherry
    Rajiv Gandhi Stadium, Nahariagun, Itanagar
    Rajiv Gandhi Badminton Indoor Stadium, Cochin
    Rajiv Gandhi Indoor Stadium, Kadavanthra, Ernak
    Rajiv Gandhi Sports Complex , Singhu
    Rajiv Gandhi Memorial Sports Complex, Guwahati
    Rajiv Gandhi International Stadium, Hyderabad
    Rajiv Gandhi Indoor Stadium, Cochin

    Medical/Reasearch Institutions

    - AIDS: Rajiv Gandhi Mobile Aids Counselling and Testing Services, Rajiv
    Gandhi Foundation
    - Cancer: Rajiv Gandhi Cancer Institute & Research Centre, Delhi
    - Chest Diseases; Rajiv Gandhi Institute of Chest Diseases, Bangalore, Karnataka
    - Tooth Ache; Shri Rajiv Gandhi college of Dental Science & Hospital, Bangalore, Karnataka

    Sports

    - Kabaddi: Rajiv Gandhi Gold Cup Kabaddi Tournament
    Rajiv Gandhi Kabbadi Meet

    - Boxing: Rajiv Gandhi Federation Cup boxing championship
    - Football: Rajiv Gandhi International tournament
    Rajiv Gandhi Gold Cup (U-21)
    Rajiv Gandhi Trophy
    Rajiv Gandhi Memorial Jhopadpatti Football Tournament, Rajura
    Rajiv Gandhi International Invitation Gold Cup Football Tournament, Jamshedpur
    - Boat Race: Rajiv Gandhi Boat Race, Kerala
    - Gymnastics: Rajiv Gandhi International Artistic Gymnastic Tournament
    - Roller Skating: Rajiv Gandhi Memorial Roller Skating Championship
    - Judo: Rajiv Gandhi International Judo Championship, Chandigarh
    - Cricket: Rajiv Gandhi Rural Cricket Tournament, Initiated by Rahul Gandhi in Amethi
    - Basketball: All Indira Rajiv Gandhi Basketball (Girls) Tournament, Delhi
    - Wrestling: All India Rajiv Gandhi Wrestling Gold Cup, Delhi

    Education

    - Management: Rajiv Gandhi Indian Institute of Management, Shilong
    - Aeronautics: Rajiv Gandhi Institute of Aeronautics, Ranchi, Jharkhand
    - Engineering: Rajiv Gandhi Technical University, Gandhi Nagar, Bhopal, M.P.
    Rajiv Gandhi Institute of Technology, Kottayam,Kerala
    Rajiv Gandhi College of Engineering Research & Technology, Chandrapur, Maharashtra
    - Law: Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law, Kharagpur, Kolkata
    Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Patiala, Punjab
    - Aviation: Rajiv Gandhi Aviation Academy, Secundrabad
    Rajiv Gandhi Aviation Academy, Begumpet, Hyderabad,

    [Reply]

    Saarthak Reply:

    God…terrible the way the illiterate will be fooled forever when welfare schemes are named after a ‘merchant of death’ (1984) in this country

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Many of those places must have been so named when Mani Silencer Aiyar had a failed tenure as the sports Minister. He has using his usual sycophancy techniques to make the Rajmanta smile…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    The Sphinx has stopped smiling after the commonwealth games.

  • Anil

    Swallo and vomit journalist speakth we must listen:

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    That is why it is necessary to give a beak to Dynasty politics. It gives rise to the worst sort of sycophamcy !!

    Name everything after the royal family…

    and get money thru which u can eat kickbacks… :D

    [Reply]

  • nirav

    @Vinod sharma,

    So we should forget all the black money that was looted,
    All the crimes done in the past and destruction of india by 60 yrs of congress and may be 5 of BJP.
    Lets than forget modi bashing and 2002 and your favorite teddy yeddy….Which you keep next to you while you sleep:)

    Here is a verse from Bhagwad gita,

    Arjun asks krishna” If i do good things, can i be saved from punishments of my crimes and misdeed.Can they be frogiven in return?”
    Krishna answers”No.everybody has to face the consequences of his deeds.Good actions will give you patience and tolerance to face them”

    So be prepare mr Vinod you and you congress guys will be ousted and dusted out of history soon.You can get as many Amul babas or babies to help you its not working….Nobody is letting yours and your beloveds crimes go…

    if you like bollywood songs like”chodo kal ki baatein” listen to this one…

    this is what the poor people of india are singing…

    “Sakhi Saiyan Toh Khoob Hi Kamaat Hain Mehangai Dayian (sonia gandhi)
    Khaye Jaat Hai “

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Saarthak, Rajiv and Shenoy,

    As exposed by me, the real battle as Yuvraj marches In Bhatta is between the builders of Gurgaon and Noida. Since Vadra and Hooda have their stakes in DLF HIlton and they were rumours of stakes of Yuvraj, Vadra and Hooda’s son in BPTP, which the develper tried to dispel thru press ads– both these builders are very very strong in Haryana.

    Today the Hindustan Times has carried an article which cheers for the Gurgaon model as against Noida– a totally failed model which delivers bad cities and town planning, trying somehow to serve the COngress cause.

    I know becasue I am involved with both– Noida and Gurgaon. I can tell you the difference is huge.

    The town planning of Greater Noida is remarkable. Pity the journalist could not see the difference. Greater Noida is the model INdia should be following. Gurgaon could have easily become a Aligarh or a Meerut or a Ferozabad or a Karnal. It was just money from Delhi which made it a shiny glittering city. The builders out there only lust for money

    A government hand is necessary for infrastructure. Gurgaon’s lack of parks and planned seawge and water systems attests to that.

    At the end of the day only the rich can buy in Gurgaon. In Noida and Greater NOida there are periodic draw of plots which allows an ordinary middle class and lower middle class guy to get a lottery and a home. Maybe the writer never saw that.

    A builder sells a flat in Gurgaon for Rs 8000 per sq ft. You can buy the same for Rs 2500 per sq ft in Noida Extension. So dear hindustant Times, see the world from a house buyers perspective and not from that of DLF

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Rajeev actually ! :D

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    When a MOS openly defies the PM of the country , even when it concerns accidents involving the death of so many hapless citizens, and I am not going to mention the other events which would have put any PM worth his salt , to shame , and the country can be seen heading towards an unprecedented crisis situation, Our Friend is left with no option but to start talk of a National Consensus. And even here too he cannot get over his partisan loyalty to the party in power and writes
    ” and facing an Opposition whose adversarial approach border on enmity.”
    Time and again the gentleman has written that the Oppposition BJP has failed to raise issues and what ever issues have risen are due to efforts of Civil Society. The gentleman has defended the misdeeds of this govt day in and day out, tried to divert attention by yelling “Amit Shah Amit Shah” and now this Sanjiv Bhatt .
    We have a rotten government headed by a shameless PM . We see its stone pelting Spokespersons living in in continiuous denial and mounting attacks on anyone and everyone who stands up and raises a finger, whether political or non -political. And even on Institutions like the office of CAG.
    However I know this gang of scoundrels shall not let go and hold on till they are booted out or land up with handcuffs on their wrists as I do not see any Chandrashekhars or Mohan Dharias or Babu Jagjivan Rams in the current dispensation. We only see the likes of Digvaijay Singh .

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    you have very rightly drawn a dismal picture of the present scenario.

    One of the ’stone-pelters’ with a permanent scowl on her face has been amply rewarded for her long innings on Tv channels which she subjected to verbal diarrhoea. Barkha Dutt was congratulating Manish Tiwari a few days ago for a possible ministerial berth, but, it looks like Tv viewers have to suffer many more days of his kind of verbal dia…….!

    I see only Sharad Pawar as a possible fence jumper, because rest of the UPA parties are incapable of garnering more than two dozen seats in the next elections.

    I hope Manmohan Singh develps a conscience and decides to stand erect for once and for all.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    To any body who has doubts on what I am saying here is a news item from newsvision.in
    Pro COngress papes like HT would of course ignore these

    Robert Vadra ties up with DLF to enter Real estate business

    The son-in-law of the Chairperson of the UPA, Robert Vadra, has forayed into the real-estate business and has entered into a partnership with India’s largest realty firm DLF. Vadra is an exporter of art jewelry and handicraft, under his company labeled Artex. Sky Light Hospitality Pvt Ltd, a company wholly owned by Vadra and his mother Maureen Vadra, is a partner, along with DLF Hotel Holdings and others, in a partnership firm that owns the business hotel Hilton Garden Inn in the upscale South Delhi business district Saket. The hotel is located within the DLF Place mall, also known as DLF Courtyard. Vadra said the business association with DLF stemmed from a long-standing friendship with the family that controls the realty giant. He has sought to scale up and diversify his business activities since 2008, acquiring tracts of land in Haryana and Rajasthan, a 50% stake in a leading business hotel in Delhi, and attempting an entry into the business of chartering aircraft. Regulatory filings available in the public domain reveal the changing graph of Vadra ’s business interests. These include wide-ranging transactions with the DLF Group. This is generally being viewed as a fund diversification strategy.

    :D :D :D ~~ NOT THE BIG QUESTIONS ~~~ :D :D :D ~~

    a) When Vadra acquires vast tracts of land from the farmer

    ~~~ toh rasleela hai ~~~~ :D :D

    When the Greater Noida authority acquie land to give to the middle class

    ~~~ TOh Character Dheela hai ~~ :D :D

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    MMS screwed up a golden opportunity – such an insipid ministry reorganization! He is doomed..To add insult to injury, Jairam, who has been actually good on Environment has been removed from that..

    Congress has given the next election giftwrapped to BJP. Lets see what BJP does..

    [Reply]

  • ram

    IT IS HIGH TIME OLD FOGEYS LIKE PM SINGH RETIRE AS THEY DO NOT HAVE THE STAMINA EXCEPT ABILITY TO SAY “JI HAZOOR” TO CONGRESS PRESIDENT AND HER FAMILY.

    WHEN AVERAGE AGE OF MAJORITY OF INDIAN POPULATION IS BELOW THIRTY YEARS LET ENERGETIC MINISTERS WORK.

    IT S A MATTER OF GREAT SHAME AND IRONY THAT CHINA BUILDS TRAINS RUNNING AT 300KM/HOUR WHILE INDIAN RAILWAYS (MAMMOTH WHITE ELEPHANT DUE TO CENTRAL GOVERNMENT LETHARGY!) IS PLAYING WITH LIVES OF MILLIONS OF INDIaNS WHEN PRIME MINISTER SINGH HOLDS CHARGE OF THE RAILWAY MINISTRY? WHY HAS RAILWAYS BECOPME MILCH COW OF THE LIKE OF MAMATA BANERJEE AND TRINAMOOL PARTY?

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    This extract from Ram Madhav’s blog is FOR ALL THOSE RSS BAITORS, RSS HATERS RSS ILL-WISHERS:

    “We got the information that at least 60 people have died and hundreds injured. What appalled us was that till 4 pm the Railway Accident Relief train had not reached the site of the accident although it was just a 4-hour normal train run time away at Allahabad. It speaks volumes about the inefficiency of our system.

    What made us feel satisfied was that the RSS Swayamsevaks were already there at the site of the accident for several hours helping the railwaymen and other security personnel. They were there at the railway station near the dead bodies. They were there in hospitals where the injured have been transported. They were there even in Kanpur attending to the seriously injured.

    Our phone went to the key functionary in Kanpur. He was so busy that he could barely speak to us for a minute; he was rushing to the hospital where several injured had arrived. He had already asked a number of Swayamsevaks to reach there anticipating need for blood and other help. We tried for the district secretary of the organisation in the affected area. It took a while, series of phone calls back and forth, to locate him. For several hours he was busy organising relief at the site along with more than hundred Swayamsevaks. Lastly we tried to reach out to the local head of the organisation, a doctor by profession. He told us that he was busy attending to the injured people in his own hospital as dozens of them had arrived.

    Should we not feel happy? Here is a voluntary group of socially-conscious individuals which is in full force attending to the victims. They didn’t wait for the orders to come from above in the command structure, which in this particular case is far removed from the event. They didn’t even bother to inform the so-called higher ups. Only thing that occupied their thoughts at that moment was perhaps the duty to help the suffering passengers. Contrast this with the delays in the response of the Government machinery. It happens mostly because of the command structure.

    By evening it was all over in the news. For a change the TV channels were showing visuals (which they would normally avoid by turning their cameras away) of Swayamsevaks involved in the relief activity. True to their intrusive style they managed to interview a couple of Swayamsevaks also. Ideally we would have expected our Swayamsevaks to avoid media bytes etc in such situations. But sometimes the intrusive style of the media becomes too much and one or two end up in minor violation of that fine line of the organisational culture.

    I am writing this not to suggest that only Swayamsevaks respond in such times of calamity. Many other socially conscious individuals too do. But the Swayamsevaks enjoy a distinct advantage. They are mentally better trained and equipped due to their RSS background to respond to such situations. Also, they have an organisational structure to maintain orderly management of such otherwise chaotic situations. Perhaps the military enjoys this advantage besides the Sangh. Thirdly and most importantly the RSS has a network that can handle all the needs in such situations – doctors, blood donars, helpers, transport, food, security. You name it and you have people in the organisation who can be immediately put to work. This network of inspired individuals is what the RSS has created as an asset for the country.

    They will be there wherever and whenever required. I am reminded of the day after the police crackdown on Baba Ramdev’s Satyagraha camp at the Ramlila Maidan in Delhi. At 5 in the morning on 5 June I saw more than 200 Swayamsevaks at the Jhandewala HQ of the organisation in Delhi. They were to disperse in various directions – to railway stations, hospitals, public parks – to extend help to the victims of the Police brutality. While all the leaders were busy making statements here was a band of young men which was silently scouting the streets of Delhi and helping the victims.

    In the true tradition of the RSS, of course.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Shenoy Saab

    Yes this time TV Channels did show the Swayemsewaks engaged in the relief work and did not editorially delete the visuals. But then the dallas would like to look some other way.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Praveen Saxena and Shenoy and others, please you come to Zia’s blog also. A bit of dishum dishum going on with Mr Ziauddin Shafi. The news that RSS is helping in Indian disasters will be a bitter pill for him to swallow

    [Reply]

  • Rakesh Katyal

    To me one of the biggest failures of UPA has been their arrogance as result of which came their inability to take anyone along with them. Even on matters of national importance the UPA was arrogant enough to always go it alone. This is not how politics was played before. Indira Gandhi and Vajpayee differed on most counts but spoke almost the same language when it came to protecting national interests. Only when the government is badly cornered like it was on the issue of Lokpal Bill did it suddenly remember the opposition. I don’t think what the author is preaching is going to happen at all. Congressmen have collected enough millions and care too hoots about anyone be it even the country.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I am a RSS critic but I admit that they have unparallel record when it comes to disaster relief. I still remember Chakri-Dadri incident when two airliners crashed over these villages. Most of the dead were muslims and guess who was providing relief on ground…RSS.
    In fact RSS buried unclaimed muslim bodies and speaking of govt., the govt. officials were caught asking for bribe just to release body of dead.

    But RSS idea of India is still unacceptable to me because it wants to make India homogeneous country just like HAN China and Sunni Pakistan. I may have my differences with muslims and christians but I’d not like to impose my cultural or belief system on them. I agree with RSS on conversion but the way the handle issue of conversion is wrong. Rather than using violence, they should seek converts just like muslims and christians in peaceful ways.

    They have to moderate their position on many issues to become acceptable. They should understand there will always be many muslims and christians who will challenge idea of India but these elements should be defeated by making them marginal by using ideology.

    Lastly they should gather courage to speak up against Raj Thackreys…

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rajeev

    It is quite unfortunate you used “there will be many Christians and Muslims who will challenge the idea of India”..

    There will many Hindus and others also who challenge the idea of India and do more damage to India than Muslims and Christians.

    Christians of kerala are 2000 years old–even before Adi Sankara…ditto in Tamil Nadu and parts of AP.

    FYI, decades ago, it was a Kerala christian pilot who saved PM Morarji Desais’ life while sacrificing his own life.

    And as far as I know Ak Antony has not stolen anything eventhough his ministry is giving billion crores of contracts.

    All are Indians. There are many Indians who work against the interests of Mother India. Let us not generalize that

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Raju,

    youare right in objecting to the idea Rajeev has propounded.

    There are indeed Hindus who will not think twice before selling their mother India to invaders, terrorists or sweet talikng conquerors. They exist even today.

    I have the greatest regard for Antony, who in my opinion, is the most incorruptible miniaster holding billions of dollars worth orders in his hand. He is a shining example of simplicity and self-effacing humility. We need many more Antonys, to save our nation.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Kurien,
    I was referring to Christians from North-east where churches rule by proxy and promote separatism.
    Let us not forget that NE also belongs to India.

    I never meant it for Syrian christians.

    [Reply]

    Vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    While I dont think ur intention is bad… but the post of blaming Christians was hurtful. I know the Keralite Christain community well… but I cant think of one single person who could be labelled such.

    Even in goa, there is fascination for the west, and maybe some fun of HIndus, earlier…. but these are barriers which can be overcome.

    Ultimately our country needs to be made stronger only by removing misunderstandings…

    S Singh Reply:

    Rajeev/Vijay

    Comments such a sthese will only feed into teh “seculars” and “hard core Muslims” – “seee what we have been saying, thre is amovement to make al lexcept hindus second class citizens”

    Country needs all capable people. Chritsians re generally highly educatd. We need their service. So also Muslims.

    There are badelemnts among all (may eb as a percentage it is higher in Muslims); but we should never lump groups..It is counterproductive

    Abdul Kalam is our proud son. Zakir Hussain (Congress leaer as wella s the musician). So also George Fernandez, Dr Kurien (Amul), Ravi Mathai (Ahmedabad IIM founder/Director), .etc.. They were all Rishis of the Indian tradition.

    Let us keep away from blaming whole groups

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,
    You did not read my post. I was referring to NE christians.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    BIG THANKS””””””””””””””
    to the following for coming on Zia’s blog and taking on Ziauddin Shafi who pasted a mile long anti hindu bile filled post-
    Rajeev, Balwinder, Shoeb, Dr Pankaj, shan, mahesh, Vijay, and Raju Kurien.

    I do believe that these blogs make a difference. That is why I bang away at the keys

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    I have read all your posts there and they are superb.
    Keep up the unity and integrity of India and all our blog mates.
    ALL THE BEST

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Mishraji, I agree with Shenoy, your posts were brilliant. You are full of manners but then deliver an iron fist in a makhmal glove.
    Raju Kurien also demolished Ziauddin with – “”"who is bombing girls schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan..last time I looked at, it was Muslims”"”
    Rajeev was hard hitting “”"It is a fact that many hindus both upper and lower castes joined Islam due to following reason-
    - fear of Islamic violence that forced upper castes to onvert
    - fear of Islamic Jiziya that forced poor to convert
    - Injustice in hindu caste system made many hindu leave for Islam”"”

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    but best of all were Shoeb and L Mirza – at the end of the day Ziauddin Shafi will not even acknowledge anything coming from a hindu or sikh- but when a muslim, and particularly a well travelled and articulate one talks- then he will listen

    [Reply]

  • Gaurav Kaushik

    The blog content is good, the comments underneath are also good. I wondered where was I until today. I often despaired after going to most media sites in India. May be I am just too critical of either media, the govt or something else like efforts to eliminate maoist menace etc. Most of the time I found that Indian media (HT, IE, TOI etc) avoided printing my comments. I then moved to economist and lately facebook to post comments. I initially thought Indian Express at least will not hesitate to publish my comments but they were just as bad as anyone else. Also, to my distaste, I found that the comments on most indian sites also get commented back in most vulgar manner , thus putting you off .
    Somehow I liked it here – mainly because – analysis from most is more similar to what I think and also I feel the comments show more intellect here and exhibit that they all care for India and perhaps most belong to media and unable to express elsewhere.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Gaurav,

    on behalf of all my fellow bloggers here, I welcome you to Vinod Sharma’s “janam-se-bichade” blog.

    He is a jolly good fellow who takes all the criticism in good spirit and occasionally gives back too in colourful language.

    We too will enjoy your posts.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Gaurav
    Welcome to the blog and please stay to add value.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Every time Someone in the COngress shouts Yeddy Yeddy to deflect attention from COngress Corruption

    The BJP can now shout out

    Vadra Vadra Vadra
    DLF HOtel or vast tracts of land
    Kahaan se aa gaya ????????? :D :D :D

    Kal tak toh Rikshaw ki swari ki thi…
    Aaj thum ban gyae khudaa…. :D :D :D

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar,
    oh come on! Vadra is not a member of the Congress Party.. like NAC is not a part of the government :P

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N. Anand Reply:

    Hello Mr. Ashish

    yes, Vadra is not a member of Congress party. But does he need to be a party member? He enjoys all the perks and pamers for belonging to congress president “Royal” family for being bestowed with all th perks and pamers of the country by the govt.
    Yes, NAC is not a part of the govt. But why its word should become a gospel truth for the govt. to toe its line?
    These exrtra constitutional bodies and individuals enjoying unlimited powers are mere burden to the nation
    BNA

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Dr Anand, Agreed NAC is a funny animal. BUT all devoloped nations do have THINK TANKS and their words carry ENORMOUS WEIGHT.But NIA is not a think tank , more of a comittee.

    Ashish Reply:

    Dear Dr BNA,
    I guess I should headline posts such as the ones I made as, “Sarcasm- please carefully read between the lines!”

  • vijay kumar

    @ Ashish

    Well I sometimes go to the DLF Gurgaon office for work. And only end up meeting ther managers.

    THere must be seomething special about Vadra that he was offred half the HIlton hotel. And a collaboration to buy “vast tracts of land along with DLF.”

    Wow !! Vadra must be a Bill gates sort of genius.

    As far as I am concerned you cant buy more thatn 12.5 acres of land as per the land ceiling act.

    You cant buy land from the Dalits.

    WHat was the price this “vast tract ” purchased at somebody should ckeck trhough RTI.

    And maybe Vinodji should guide us on why Vadra’s business links should be viewd differently from that of Gowda… :D

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar,
    See, you already know the answer- just pretending that you don’t :)
    There IS something special about Vadra- he has something that even Bill Gates does not have. Any guesses, what that is?
    I will not be surprised if he can walk on water…

    [Reply]

  • Observer

    For those Muslims who condemn Hinduism and Buddhism should read the article in American thinker by By Janet Levy.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/is_the_fate_of_the_infidels_tied_to_the_buddhas.html

    [Reply]

  • dalip kumar saini

    In Pakistan whosoever in power, knows very well how to protect their country’s best interest and have clear agenda in their mind to achieve that. Pakistani government do not care about what India says and give very little importance or sometimes may even ignore India and its leaders. In fact India is having a strong fear factor dealing with Pak.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Breaking news-
    Mumbai has been rocked by bomb blasts on the birth of Ajmal Kasab. Peaceful Islam back in action-

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/twin-blasts-in-mumbai-15-injured/167291-3.html

    [Reply]

  • dalip kumar saini

    Shri Vinod ji, I understand that a fresh, updated, authenticated and hopefully a correct list of 50 most wanted men has been prepared by our intelligence agencies to be handed over to Pakistan. I have a suggestion to offer that India should wait to add some more to this list. Let it be a 100 most wanted men. Soon we will have this 100 number. Some more serial blasts are being reported just now from Mumbai and the persons involved in these blasts one day has to take shelter in Pakistan, then they will also become for India the most wanted.

    For keeping these most wanted in our modified comfortable houses( jail), Indian government has to make some prior arrangements for the welcome. Kasab and Afzal Guru are just two. We need many more. These wanted men may face some threat to their lives in Pak but are very safe in our country. We can feed them till they are alive. No problem. India has lot of money reserved for this noble cause.

    Dalip Kumar Saini,
    Cedar Estate, Gurgaon.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dalip Kumar sainiji,

    I have a list of 50 most UNWANTED PERSONS, which I want to hand over to Manmohan Singhji. Topping the list is Digvinash Singh, closely followed by Amar Singh Dhalla. I will request the PM to expel these unwanted persons to any country of their choice.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay kumar

    This COngress government being weak on terror a lover of “Osmaji” deserves t be kicked in the butt.

    What policy do they have of catching terrorists? They will probably go slow and try to shout BJP BJP like pavlovian dogs…

    THIS GOVERNMENT HAS NO POLICY EXCEPT TRYING TO GET THE YUVRAJ ON TO THE CHAIR SO THAT THIER CHAMCHAS IN THE MEDIA, THE BUREAUCRACY AND POLITCCS ACAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS MENTAL LIMITATIONS….

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    I have an idea. This government must outsource fighting terror to a particular bahu bali in Gujarat. He’d solve the problem once and for all …. no?
    Respectully
    A Pavlovian Dog :) )

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Beore I answer, I must confess that a dog is my favourite creature on this planet… unconditonal love and asking for nothing in return…

    But… hate it or not. You have to admit that MOdi would have a clear cut policy on tackling terror.

    While the UPA procrastinates…
    Digvinash obfuscates
    And the Yuvraj hibernates…

    Thinking that kursi is everything
    HIndustani mar bhi gaye toh kya hua…
    Mummy will get me the chair
    So I wont let India do anything….

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Vinod sharma,

    You are right. Government should not outsource fighting terror to a particular bahu bali in Gujarat, They should instead outsource it to three musketeers: VINOD SHARMA, DIGVIJAY SINGH AND LALUPRASAD YADAV.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    What an observation Observerji ……you and that bahu bali seem to hold the patent for desh bhakti. jo naam aapne likhe hain, woh to desh drohi hain.

    dalip kumar saini Reply:

    Shri vinod sharma ji, I do think this country is capable of handling the problem of terrorism from outside or from within. Let there be any party’s government at the center unless there is change in the policy of government with strong will power/determination towards terrorism, it will go on like this forever. Strong wordily statements are issued by the government every time. But else this poor country can do.

    The government is expert in making, revising, editing the list of most wanted terrorists hiding in Pakistan. Whenever there is meeting between two countries, Indian government hands over the list of these wanted men and some maps or diagrams of terrorist camps in that country, and very proudly announce that we have handed over these documents and requested Pakistan to take suitable action. You can just imagine whether this attitude of the government will ever have any impact on that country. In fact we are afraid of Pakistan and always indulge in requests or buttering. Pakistan understand this very well that India can not take any military action so there is no harm to keep India engaged in diplomatic talks.

    Earlier we were ruled by Britishers and there are many who even are in appreciation of that era. We do not deserve this kind of freedom or the democracy. India can not be a good administrator as was the case with Britishers. Should now we request US administration to help us in fighting terrorism.

    Regards: Dalip Kumar Saini
    Cedar Estate, Gurgaon

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    This morning’s news covered the fourth day of Protestant rioting in Northern Ireland, and as I commuted to my work the mindlessness of this riot, after a decade of peace, played on mind.

    Soon after reached my work, I heard the news that 3 terrorist bombs had exploded in Mumbai. As more details filtered through it became clear that 20 innocent Indians had lost their lives and countless people were injured lying in hospital.

    Devastating news like this makes ones emotions go up and down like a rollercoaster ride, I felt anger, I wanted to nab the terrorists and shoot them with my gun, I wanted to understand WHY, why innocent people, what did they do, and many many more questions like this randomly appear in ones mind.

    One feels the urge to tell some one and discuss it. This lightens the load a little bit, but it does not console the restless spirit.

    In times like this, I reach for my music player and play the following shabad.

    I would like to share it with you.

    नारायन नरप्त नमशकारे

    ऐसे गुर को बल बल जाईं हैँ

    आप मुक्त मौहे तारे

    कवन कवन, कवन गुन कहीये

    अन्त नहीँ पिच्छपारे

    लाख लाख, लाख कइ कौरे

    तोहे ऐसो बिचारे

    भिसम भिसम, भिसम पई है

    लाल गुलाल रगां रे

    कहो नान्क सन्तन रस आई हे

    ज्योँ चाख गुंगा मुसका रे

    जय हिन्द

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ravi, Sigmund freud as you know had to leave vienna and settled in ?Hampstead to escape the nazi violence. He was of the opinion that BARBARISM is innate to human nature IT CAN NEVER GO AWAY, LOOKS LIKE HE MAY BE TRUE. Islamic terrorism is an ideological terrorism , like the shiv sena terrorism , vis a vis biharis. Protestant problem in northern ireland is probably ECONOMIC IN NATURE, so is MAOIST.As you know things are getting tougher by the day in UK and I guess all through the world which is on the throes of a recession.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Bomb blasts in Mumbai again today. I AM FURIOUS- same old comments by Indian face bookers – sack the CM, Home minister etc. The y have MISSED THE BLOODY POINT
    They are concentrating on sympt, not disease. A densely overpoulated country with a million mutinies within (hindu-muslim, Maoists, etc to name a few) cannot be made 100% safe till this alarming population is not controlled and these mutinies becalmed

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Concentrate on getting population down, Chinese style, for the next 30 years. Then see ‘economic growth’ and ‘education’ solve most problems. If you cant do it- then suffer. From Naxalites to Khalistan, to Kashmir, to Islamic terror to Maoists- we will keep taking hit after hit

    why blame leaders, blame us. India is right now a country where each man to himself. We all become doctors, lawyers MBA, accountants or WE EMIGRATE. Bacha kaun leader banne ke liye- Amar Singh Dalla and Digvinash Singh. No cure- learn to take hit after hit- I am furious

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    These MFs, who go by the name Diggy and his ilk, who see batala house people as victim of police high handedness, 26/11 as RSS ki Sazish. Why we can not be as tough as security in US. No leeway to rogues. law as supreme force, be it for Hindus, Muslims, christians or any denominations.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Guys there is an editorial in the bengali newspaper Ananda Bazar Patrika. It was about a news from pakistan. A HINDU couple took saat phere in front of journalist in the press club of pakistan to draw attention to their plight. APPARENTLY HINDUS CANNOT REGISTER THEIR MARRIAGE IN PAKISTAN, thus easy prey to abduction and forced conversion and also scuttled from inheriting husband’s property.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    It may be news to you but it is an old story. This is another Islamic way of forceful conversion.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Shan,

    This is Collateral damage as far as Nehru dynasty and CQs, such as Vinod Sharma, are concerned for their current exalted position in India.

    For them it is OK as long as somebody else is suffering.

    [Reply]

  • Aaloke

    @Shan,

    It is not only barbarism, its also saintly ness which is innate to human nature. Much of what an individual or a society behavior depends on surroundings they live in,the philosophy / ideology they believe in and practice.
    It really fascinates me that an otherwise normal and peace loving person / society can be turned into a brute, a savage, by an ideology. Prime examples we see in this is Islamic ideology for last 1400 yrs ( Afghans were mostly Buddhist, look, what they are now ). We have also come across Naziism in recent past. Generally Germans were educated and civilized at the time they went under sway of Naziism. Look what they became.
    If you study rise and violence unleashed by Chengiz Khan, it also was deeply influenced by his visions and commands from God , something similar to Mohammed.He started from a very small Mongol tribe , with no education,no knowledge of things outside Mongolia, no knowledge of organized warfare.However in his lifetime only , with 30-35 years of life spent on warfare, Mongol Armies were ruling from Poland in west to almost complete China. Destruction, killings, rapes unleashed during such short time is unparalleled in history (Research has proved that almost 30 – 40 % of population in such vast track of land as above carries genetic material from Mongols , so one can understand the rapes they indulged in ) . Please remember, it was before Gun Powder was used in war and traveling this approx. 10000 kms expanse of his dominion was on horses and Mule carts.Chengiz khan did not format a formal ideology like Mohammed, otherwise right now, there would have been another mighty Religion ” Chengezia ” or something similarly named. There would have been enough converts to this religion eulogizing Rapes , Pillage, Loot Chengiz khan carried out on their ancestors.
    History also gives us examples of great times when individuals and society have generally lived very peacefully uninterruptedly. However , in every such time, the philosophy and ideology imbibed by society has been positive. As per my view, we are currently passing through one such peaceful phase ( Disturbances highlighted not withstanding, very less compared to world population and in reference to History ). That is why, for this phase to be prolonged, we need to cultivate the positive philosophies and being on guard against Disruptive and Violent ideologies. Islam is one such ideology which is violent , disruptive and still potent.We need to be on our guard against this ideology. An ocean of proofs from the days of its founder to this date, spread through out the world are available. There have been other philosophies in past which have also been disruptive, but most of them have died and can be discussed for the sake of analysis. However Islamic ideology is live and kicking.It dominates mindspace of a very large number of its adherents. So Islam needs to be discussed with an agenda of solution. Fake Denials and equating everything with every other thing for the sake of winning an argument can be done at our own peril. To my mind, biggest solution is KNOWLEDGE. This type of philosophies thrive on Ignorance. Ignorance of the victim and Ignorance of the perpetrator. We need to discuss Islam thread bare. We should be sympathetic and without any hatred for Muslims as they are the first victims of this ideology. Socially we have to treat them as our Brothers and Sisters which they are. However let us contest this ideology with full force and at every step. This is a world of open access. Knowledge now can not be hidden. It will reach its desired recipients. There may have revulsion to start with , what they have lived all through thinking to be the right thing is not easy to discard, but soon enough people will start having their doubts , start looking at things from fresh perspective. There will come a critical mass and then it will demolish this ideology in no time. Till that time, we need to be consistent, patient , peaceful , but efficiently protecting ourselves from disruptions unleashed.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Aaloke, You are oversimplifying a complex matter , by a very simple assumption. And that is GET RID OF ISLAM everything will be hunky dory.
    First let state Sifmund Freud was no MUG. He was jewish , you know chosen people. When they say something , it has WEIGHT.
    Though it is true , the german philosopher KANT having analysed 5000 yrs of human civilization , came to the conclusion that HUMAN BEINGS ARE PROGRESSING , despite ups and downs. Thus he formulated Thesis, Anthesis and then the Synthesis. I have gleamed this bit of information from the book by Francis Fujiyama END OF HISTORY AND THE LAST MAN.
    I don’t have that time , perhaps you could research , but I think I may have read somewhere TEN TIMES THE PEOPLE KILLED IN WW2 HAVE DIED IN ALL CONFLICTS AROUND THE WAR SINCE 1946.
    Just Reflect on the BOSNIAN WAR , and the savagery it embodied , or the rwanda war tutsis and hutus , AND NEAR HOME CAMBODIA AND POL POT.
    As much I loathe the islamicist , DO KEEP IN MIND THE WHITE ANGLOSAXONS ARE NO SAINT.
    There was no justification for IRAQ WAR, there is justification for dismemberment of pakistan , BUT THAT WONT HAPPEN.Reflect on LIbya , WHITE MAN’S SUDDEN UNCONTROLLABLE URGE TO DIFFUSE DEMOCRACY EVEN IF THAT MEANS INDISCRIMINATE BOMBING
    Yet the same white man was COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO THE TERROR OF FRANCO IN SPAIN AND ALL TIN POT DICATORS IN LATIN AMERICA.
    And what about CHINA , no worries for human right abuses there.
    So I again feel SIGMUND FREUD was right , though it is true , science and technology , in other words knowledge may make people shed their baser instincts.

    [Reply]

  • nirav

    Now if we condemn the government machinery and intelligence we would be told not to politicize terror.
    Lets stand united and then lets not blame the government..
    It is plain destiny of the poor indians who died and the mumbai spirit needs to carry on….Same old nonsense preaching from the tea party congress circuit and sold out press…
    Its a shame we keep on living with this while UPA and congress keeps playing minority appeasement…
    So now does the anti communal riot bill of sonia applies to get justice to the poor hindus or muslims who dies yesterday??????????????//When will this party stop its dirty methods and when will selfish indians fight back rather than wait till the fire reaches their house????

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    I do not understand why should the train accidents and the Mumbai Bomb blasts be Front page news. Only __X__number of people of died and _X_have been injured.. What is so significant about it? After all no VIP or any of his kith and kin and kin have died.We should maintain calm and peace.The PM has done his job , he has expressed his sorrow. Now he shall reassure Batla House that they need not worry as we are going to investigate Aseemanand for the blasts.The Home Minister has told that ammoinium nitrate was used. Now Life should go on as usual. This is the way that India can defeat terrorism.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    no no Saxena sahib there is another way of dealing with it. Give Aseemanand a mahavir chakra :) )

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    No Sirjee…I would prefer to wait for a day or two , we may read about his confession .

    [Reply]

    manujsk Reply:

    lol.. boss, you rock!!

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    VINOD SHARMA- PLEASE YOU HAVE DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED WITH YOUR RANDOM reply- “”"no no Saxena sahib there is another way of dealing with it. Give Aseemanand a mahavir chakra “”"
    Even if you do not like what Praveen Saxena says, you should not stoop and give this kind of Amar Singh type of response. You are VINOD SHARMA- senior journalist- issues regarding Aseemanand and terror cannot be politicised.
    Let the courts investigate and pronounce guilt

    Observer Reply:

    @Balwinder Sandhu

    ” You are VINOD SHARMA- senior journalist- issues regarding Aseemanand and terror cannot be politicised.”

    ARE YOU KIDDING?

    Vinod Sharma is a propagandist, not a journalist.

    nirav Reply:

    @Vinod,

    Sure give aseemanand mahvir chakra after his accepts “Her Lordship to italy” like some people have done….

    Where do you keep your btw?Swiss bank??

    Be human and have respect for dead people before you turn a fossil soon……and stop cracking juvenile jokes…

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    “”"SHAN YOU FR KING *** HOLE
    ———————————-
    Here Mishraji, Rajeev and Ravi and Dr Pankaj have started a discussion on Mumbai bomb blasts and you are saying something on a hindu couple marrying in Pakistan.
    Are you just plain STUPID, have you no sense of timing or sensitivity? India is being ripped apart but all you are interested in is your obsessive blogging- the need to say something inane.
    That you claim to be a doctor depresses me.
    ————————————–
    Sack this Ghafoor and his colleagues- commisioner of Police – and put KPS Gill in charge

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Balls scratcher Bhondhu, go back to your DARU , this blog is to intellectual for you , you are a dimwit buffoon.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Observer
    And you are a mole hiding behind a pseudonym. Read your own writings and u’d know what is abuse, what is propaganda. That you are also ill-mannered and uncouth is obvious from the way you consistently abuse my hospitality on this blog.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Vinodji,

    So now are ready to kick me out, A Kaffir, a,pagan, an idolator and a non-believer, from this BELIEVER’S VOICE OF VICTORY blog?

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Balwinder Sandhu
    The tenor of my reply to Saxenaji matched that of his own comment.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Aaloke

    Chengiz Khan’s stroy makes a fascinating story. Death, Murder, rape and loot…

    But as Naipul said, “Histroy is writen from the viewpoint of the victor…”

    Byt he way Chengiz Khan was NOT a Muslim. He practised some sort of Tengism or somthing of that sort.

    But what worries me more is the fact that the “killer takes all.” The red Indians were exterminated and just occupy only 1% land and are now 1% of what they should ahve been.

    India needs to be careful that repeated terror attacks do not result in the forces of evil becoming victors. We really need to look forward and weld a secular nation which takes on the terrorists. Not gets frightened in taking action. And that means hanging and killing terrorists like Afzal Guru and Kasab rather than creating stories to give a reason why they need to live. Like small people like Digvinash do…

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Vijay kumar,

    Genghiz Khan was not Muslim, he was Shamanist and became Buddhist, before he died in what is called first conversion in Mongol History.

    Hulagu Khan, who captured Baghdad was Buddhist. and so was Kublai Khan.. Mongols to this day follow Tibetian version of Buddhism.

    Mongols gave fitting reply to Mulsims, who were bent on wiping out Kaffirs and Buddhists in Central Asia. As a matter of fact one Pakistani historian wrote that Buddhism was one of the main reason Muslims attacked India.

    As for your comment Death, Murder, rape and loot, Mongols were no worse than Muslims and other enemies they were facing. It require steel to break steel. It was norm of times.

    Same thing applies for Second world War. For all his killings and Gulag, without Stalin it would not have been possible to destroy Nazism.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Observer

    The grandson of Hulagu Khan embraced Islam and later known as Usman. He was the one who laid foundation of Calipahate Usmania (Ottoman Empire) which was later expanded to 3 continents i.e. Asia, Europe and Africa and that khilafat lasted for centuries.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Sal,

    Mongols were tolerant people and during their regime Buddhism, Samanism, Christianity and other religion flourished. mongols were also nodiscriminatory and therefore let Muslims in high places in their administration. Muslims paid back this generosity by staging a coup using one prince named Azam Khan.

    Once Muslims seized power they destroyed all non-Muslim monuments and forced all non-Muslim Mongols to convert to Islam.

    Sounds familiar in modern South Asia, isn’t it?

    Observer Reply:

    @Sal

    Ottomans were not Mongols, neither was Tamerlane, ancestor of Moghul dynasty.The coverrted ill-Khanate dynasty lasted for few centuries in Iran.

    Sal Reply:

    @Observer

    Ottoman Empire lasted from 1299 to 1923. At the height of its power, in the 16th and 17th centuries, it controlled territory in southeastern Europe, southwestern Asia, and North Africa.

    A vast number of non muslim historians wrote about the massacre of humans especially muslims by mongols like Chengaiz Kahan and Halagu Khan. They have looted and destroyed Baghdad…the capital of then civilized world. But because Mongols have killed and looted millions of muslims..so you have a high regard for mongols. I understand this. But let me tell you again the grandson of Halagu Khan beacame muslim and he laid foundation of Khilafat e Usmania.

    This is why Iqbal write “Kaba ko mil gaey sanam but kahanay se”.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sal,
    At the moment muslims are defeated people and that is what matters.

    Observer Reply:

    @Sal

    You are wrong. Osman was Turk, not Mongol. Hulagu’s dymnasty ruled present day Iran, Iraq, it captured Syria, but lost it to Malmuks, I do not think they ever rule Anatolia..

    Iqbal like typical Indian was an ignorant guy, a convert from a Kashmiri pandit group, a with high ego of know all attitude, whose arrogance led ultimately to partition.

    I have not said they were model of enlightenment, But they were not as bad as their enemies would like to paint them, because after their conquest they were more tolerant then many of their enemies.

    Sal Reply:

    @Observer

    The Syria, Iraq was part of Ottoman Empire and when ottoman empire collasped…these countries came into being…Second..you are talking aabout mongols..Those Mongols who killed countless numbers of muslims and destroyed Baghdad..Their children became muslims just after 50 years of the destruction of Bagdad and this was not done by force and later these converted muslims (Read Mongols) once again built islamic empires.

    You said Iqbal an ignorant Indian because he said something which you dont like.

    Observer Reply:

    @Shal

    You should check history book. Even wikipedia will give you info that Usman was not descendent of Hulagu Khan.

    You agree Muslims did not defeated Mongols in open battle in Iran, like they did in Syria. They seized power by coup in ILL-Khan empire, using some convert Mongols and destroying or forcibly converting others, while other who refused to convert were either killed or driven away.

    Sal Reply:

    @Observer aka Hindu Fanatics

    You dont have anything in your hsitory so you talk about others who have defeated Muslims.We ruled 3 continents for centuries. Dont give me a shit about mongol and thing like forcing others to become muslim. Wikepedia is editable.

    Observer Reply:

    @Sal

    I can understand your anger TRUTH HURTS. It is bitter pill.

    according to you Taliban did not destroy BAMIYAN BUDDHA. right?

    Sal Reply:

    @Observer

    Did I say anything about Bayman Budha? The problem is.. If muslims did something wrong then it will be a very evil thing for you because of your hatred towards muslim and If muslims did something good then you will say..No..they coup or they were forcibly converted to muslims because of your hatred towards muslims. I can give hundreds of example of non muslims who did many wrong things to muslims even non muslims.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Well Sal;
    Now, as you have been persistent in your efforts, let me say this. Rest of the world will conquer present muslim countries, exploit their resources and forcibly make them human beings again. answer this.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Observer/Sal

    The fundamentalist Islam movement can be traced to Hulaguu Khan’s destruction of Bagdad.

    Until then, Caliphs were inquisitive and exploratory rulers, obtaining advice and input from various learned people (irrespective of religion) and recodifying and adjusting laws, methodologies (process of Ijtehad), creating a lot of discomfort for clerics who feared losing power to these “learned men”.

    The Bagdad attack and capture shocked the Caliph; clerics used this as an indication of “Allahs wrath”, resulting in the “shutting off the doors of Ijtehad”. Everything in Islam was frozen sinec then. No questioning, no inquiries into the great expansive scientific and other thought processes, no adaptation to evolving systems…frozen- frozen

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Shoeb K

    You are right, But previous to Mongol invasion the Muslim states in central Asia, showed very strong intolerance to Buddhism and Paganism as opposed to Khalifa in Baghadad. as a result of that those groups disappeared.

    Ottoman empire also should be credited for showing tolerance to people of different faiths. They granted autonomy to all sects, which changed in twentieth Century with rise of nationalism everywhere.

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Yes, however, i was focusing on the “closure of Islam” – clerics really did not care about granting autonomy etc; what they wanted was to be the exclusive spokesperson for God, no questioning them, neither questioning Sharia etc (Sharia was constantly modified till then)

    Observer Reply:

    @Shoeb, K.

    You are right. it is process similar to what happened to Afghanistan in last thirty plus years.

  • Binoy Hegde

    We do no value human lives in India..

    Politicians will make the usual sattement ” Mumbaikars are resilient..They will dust off and carry on”

    A train derails due to poor maintenance of the track, 60 people die, and the minister dos not eevn bother to visit the place!

    Andthen there was news that they “discovered” a property owned by Pakistani citizen in Kovalam beach near Trivandrum, kerala. Apparently some high ups facilitated his buying the property bypassing whatever rules nd regulations.

    Who are the real terrorists in the country?

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    It looks like no one cares for the victims. Vinod sharma is back to his old habit of sniping at RSS/BJP and defending congress.
    The great intellectual Rahul Gandhi has said that 99% of terror strikes are prevented, does he know that 1% of successful terror strikes are the one which we need to reduce?

    Is Rahul Gandhi going to accept 1% breach in his 7 layer security?

    The author of “Indian Mujahideen – Tracking the Enemy Within” Shishir Gupta has also questioned why police did not investigate local support for 26/11 attack. To me it looks like some congress elements are working with Islamic terrorists. The actions of Digvijay in Batala and Azamgarh and subsequent utterances of Rahul in support of LeT point to that direction.
    http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-indian-mujahideen-is-very-much-alive/20110714.htm

    [Reply]

  • Aaloke

    Shan,

    When we try to find solution for some problem, it does not mean there is no other problem.However we have to make sincere attempts at solving major problems troubling us.
    In most probability, there has never been a time when there was no problem, or in future when there will not be any problem. Happier times can be defined as when you have been in control of majority of your problems ( not all).Conversely bad times are when you are bogged down by majority or with some major problem. I have admitted in my earlier post that relatively speaking, we are in happier times. However for these relative happier times to be prolonged, we need to look at what can spoil the show. Islam is one major issue which can throw us to real bad days. We need to study and respect history in its right perspective.Devise our future approach with insight from History.

    Further many so called complex problems , when visualized with balance of intellect and intuition do not look very complex.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Aaloke,

    it is wrong to blame a religion for India’s wrong policies, BASICALLY STUPIDITY

    . India’s predicament is due to stupid policy it has followed it has nothing to do with Islam.

    1. India did not took Azad Kashmir in 1947 or 1971.
    2. It did not make demographic changes in Kashmir to discourage Pakistanis from dreaming of take it.
    3.After signing Nehru-Liaquat accord, which made each government responsible for protecting religious minorities in their country, when Pakistan did not fulfill it’s part, by allowing out ethnic cleansing of Hindus, India did nothing,

    So responsible people are NEHRU and INDIRA GANDHI, not Islam. Stop behaving like a stupid Hindu and have courage to call spade a spade and acknowledge that Nehru CQs are the problem.

    [Reply]

    Aaloke Reply:

    Observer,
    Probably you have not read my earlier post. Above post was reply to response of Shan on my earlier post.
    I also went through one of the links that you have provided in your earlier post ( American Thinker ). Have I written anything different from that link?
    I have stressed in my main post on Dangers of Islam to civilised world.My reference has been World” and not ” India” alone. If India had taken steps as recommended by you above, would problem of Islam have vanished in World or atleast in India..And why did Nehru and Indra Gandhi not take those required steps, because they were also ignorant about Islamic problem in its true perspective. Knowledge is what I have been stressing all through. My response to Islam is not coming due to my religion or faith I may be adhering to. It is coming from observing my immediate surroundings, Indian situation and world situation. analysing the situation, studying history and only then coming out with some Analysis. Unfortunately most of us have tendency for a very short concentration span. We immediately want to move on to some other issue without having done justice to earlier issue. Further, does it mean that we have only one problem that is Islam. Definitely not. We have many more problems, which is only natural . We have to take care of them as well. However at this moment we are here concentrating on a major world problem, that is ISLAM. I have raised this issue also because directly or indirectly, 80% of posts have some reference to Islam, whatever may have been topic of Blog. That includes your posts also.
    Well, my friend OBSERVER, we definitely need better OBSERVATION.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Aaloke,

    You are right one some of your observation. But there are more than a 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, not all of them are fanatics.Yes they have strong passion. Therefore it is better to handle them skillfully, rather than condemn all of them

    HITTING ON HEAD HEAD IS NOT BEST WAY TO EDUCATE ANYBODY.

    So stitch in time is good solution. The smart. brain can not do anything evil without body. The body is SECULARIST HINDU. so world should focus on Hindu secularist type people.

    France has shown firmness in prohibiting veil in France.Muslims being astute will push as much as they can get away with. Basically they follow MIGHT IS RIGHT CONCEPT.

    Therefore others need to draw a line sand. .Muslims need to be dealt firmly, but fairly WITHOUT PREJUDICE OR MALICE.

    AS for NEHRU family they wanted Muslims for vote bank.

    HINDUS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT MUSLIMS ARE SMARTED THAN THEM.

    Observer Reply:

    Aloke,

    There is a proverb: A calf jumps with the support of of Nail (small post) he is tied to. Remove the post an calf will learn the lesson. HINDU CQs are the Nail.

    In my previous reply

    HINDUS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT MUSLIMS ARE SMARTED THAN THEM.

    should read

    HINDUS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT MUSLIMS ARE SMARTER THAN THEM. The fanaticism on one side and weakness on other side other are just ploy to extract maximum concession out of others.As you see South Asia is far more ISLAMIZED today then at beginning of twentieth Century.

    That web link I provide was only to used against those Muslims start condemning Hinduism.It should be used as a shield not as a weapon.

  • Vijay kumar

    @ Everyone

    Supposing someone near and dear to you requires immediate medical attention and maybe surgery. And then iin walks a man who claims that

    I am the best guy around becasue My great grandfather was a surgeaon , my grand mother a doctor and my father a doctor. So even if I have not done anything in life… and have no experience … only I can do this surgery.

    Will anybody in his right mind trust such a doctor ???

    Well the cheer leaders of the dynasty do exactly this as they want to make the Yuvraj the PM;;;;;

    [Reply]

  • http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Vinod ji,
    You have made a significant statement with this post. Kudos! But there are issues which need to be looked into a broader perspective. It is sad to learn that “governance is at a standstill” as your IAS friends have suggested, but then I would ask, when was it not? When in the last sixty four years of rule have we seen “governance” (not development) as it should matter for a democratic but poor nation? Can the present lack of inertia be assigned to the inefficiency of Manmohan Singh or to the corrupt ministers of UPA-2? Surely not Sir- they follow their predecessors or rather they follow the tradition. The absence of governance, is the sine qua non of the Indian political class irrespective of the party in power. Why otherwise would the highest court of law take matters of governance in it’s hands with such frightening frequency? (surely a dangerous trend in all respects for a functioning democracy)
    I am an optimist who wishes to see things in color but alas! For me the concept of democracy comes with a will and vision of equipoise in the society. Governance too needs a level ground for exercising the practical aspects of a working democracy. Unfortunately this level ground was never created in our casteist, classist and religious society. Never was an effort made to fill the deep wide divide of inequality between the have and have nots in our country and unfortunately this brazen and shameful game of injustice has been played well by all. And now when there is a general torpor of the ruling class, we all stand up in arms! History has a peculiar way of catching up with its perpetrators and the Indian middle class will have to pay for its stupor. Parties will come and go but the working of democracy in this country will remain half baked till we, the “elite” middle class of this great nation wakes up to our own injustices and prejudices.
    I am reminded of a couplet:
    Zindagee saahil-o-toofaan ka nazara hi naheen
    kabhee darya mein utar jaaney ki-bhee baat karein
    Khud mein simtey huey rahna to hai tauheen-e-junoon
    saath maujon key bikhar jaaney ki-bhee baat karein.

    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Race , history etc has a big role to play when it comes to define a nation’s character.Japanese are followers of zen buddhism , the PURE . Thus their ethos is so different from SRILANKAN which is hinajan buddhism. THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A REASON WHY MAX WEBER WROTE “PROTESTANT ETHICS”. whereby he showed why protestant society marched ahead , living behind catholics miles away in progress , and that has all to do with their covenant with god.
    LAZINESS , SLOPINESS is more hated than terrorist attack in protestant societies and JAPAN.
    An anecdote. My uncle a navy doctor visited EXPO60 in Japan with the indian ship. The indian party went around shopping. Went to a shop ,asked the price of a camrea or something. Then exclusively in indian characteristics , said “but we found it in another shop much cheaper”
    Japanese couldn’t beleive what they were hearing , they said we are so sorry ,please give us some time we will check with the other shop and come back to you MERA HARYANA COW BELT MAHAN.The first thing india needs is to work out COST OF SOCIAL SECURITY like in any civilized country. Every citizen is guaranteed a payment/job that will sustain him to live without starvation Free reasonably decent health service AND COMPULSORY EDUCATION
    just heard from someone from assam , the maid has four daughter , the oldest is FIFTEEN , she wants to get her married , but cant the law is against it. SOD THE LAW. She goes to a official gives her a birth certificate showing age to be 17.A COUNTRY THAT CANNOT ENSURE A COMPULSORY BIRTH CERTIFICATE , OR A PROPER DRIVING LICENCE AFTER AN EXAM TALKS ABOUT BEING ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE.
    This is HINDU HYPOCRISY which Nirad choudhari ,so glaringly pointed out.
    As for ISLAM ,IT IS EVEN WORSE , it is not only a HYPOCRITE BUT ALSO BLIND

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Dr Shah Alam
    I couldn’t have said it better than you. All these years, the Indian middle class has been in the forefront of bashing the Left (that spoke of the poor) and deriding grassroot activists as jholawalas. We deserve the parties we have—- the Congress and the BJP.

    [Reply]

  • Raghavendra

    Mr Vinod why are you so willing to give this SONIA BHAKT CONGRESS led government another chance after so many blunders? are you not exposing your hidden loyalties? you have to peep in to your atma and search for an answer would you be willing to give a chance like this to a government led by the COMMUNAL BJP?

    please answer the points raised by me here

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Raghvendra
    There is a court sitting permanently within all individuals. So long as you are fine before that court (or call it conscience) you need not worry what others say. Har aadmi ka apna imaan aur andaz -e-bayan hota hai. Mera hai, aapka bhi hai. Let us keep what we deem fit.

    [Reply]

    Raghavendra Reply:

    Mr vinod i am glad that you replied to my email. only thing i want is that certain people in india always want what they called SECULAR parties to rue and never a COMMUNAL BJP.

    do people like you feel of this country consider vote for SONIA BHAKT CONGRESS as genuine mandate and a vote for COMMUNAL BJP as FAKE MANDATE? why this blatant double standards when talking about political parties of this country? dont same citizens of this country too vote for your COMMUNAL BJP? do pakis or bangladeshis vote for it?

    reply to my views i will talk more in my reply

    [Reply]

    Raghavendra Reply:

    Mr Vindo sharma , i dont know why you were so withdrawn while replying to my statements.

    i sense you are one of those people in india who always seem to think that only SONIA BHAKT CONGRESS WALLAHS have the divine right to rule this nation and nobody else.

    i still clearly remember your beaming face on the election result day in MAY 2009 your face had abundant smile when CONGRESS crossed 200 seat mark. dont you feel despite having such handsome political mandate of 200 plus seats the party has behaved like one which has 30 odd MPs and ruling this country.
    you always keep saying that BJP benefits from polarisation of majority community votes but just see election results for ASSAM assembly and you will know how the spectre of BADRUDDIN AZMAL.s party coming to power pushed the HINDU vote more and more towards CONGRESS party?reports do show that congress did play on the people’s fear about UDF getting stronger, dont you feel these games by SONIA BHAKTS as COMMUNAL panditji?
    analyse issues by removing your inbuilt bias for CONGRESS party. you always seem to see through all sinster games BJP plays but never get a whiff of what SONIA BHAKTS do.
    i hope you would consider replying to my message atleast now.

  • Vijay kumar

    :( :( ~~ A TIMELY WARNING TO CHEERLEADERS AND SYCOPHANTS OF YUVRAJ AND DIGVIANSH :(

    Many of the jokers in the media bowed whenever Digvinash and Yuvraj belched– they thought that a national holiday should be declared since God had spoken…

    Today the intellectually challenged duo have hurt the feelings of India and the victims of terror in Mumbai.

    Rahul by dismissing this as just a small event as 99% terror is under control, has spat on the people who are dead and the injured many who have lost their hands and legs.

    To him I would say, ” Rahul go back to Rohit Bal’s socity circuit. Why do you want to damage India? ”

    Digivainsh tried to make fun of it by saying that nothing wrong. Just a small incident. Look at Pakistan.

    To him Pakistan seems to be the ideal country since LeT and Osmaji lived there. To him I would say, “Digvijay ji… you are a heinous character who insults the Inidan Muslims by saying that since I want your votes I will make fun of terror and killings by LeT and IM. Indian Mulsmis now want to spit on you…. ”

    And to Vinodji I will say, Will you comment on these comments by Congress heroes. Do you still stick by your blog which pleaded that terrorists like Afzal Guru shoul be saved.

    And why do you want to destroy India by getting the Hindustan Times to back an immature child who can only cause national damage… ?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    you are absolutely right in voicing your anger. You have in fact given voice to the anger and anguish and also the feeling of helplessness 100 crore Indians feel at this moment.

    I had earlier said, half jokingly, that (with this blog) Vinodji has hoisted thew first white flag. How wrong I was! He is now busy helping the congress party in “event-management”.

    In one of his typical replies he has said, “You are right. Government should now outsource fighting terror to a particular bahu bali in Gujarat…”

    I would say this particular Bahu bali is a thousand times more patriotic and capable than the Italian Bahu who is ruling this unfortuinate country for the last eight years.

    These neo-patriots will utilise these terror killings to improve their support base among the Muslims. Now they are trying to market the idea of suicide bombers. In a day or two, they will say Aseemanand and his gang are responsible for the killings. Vinodji has already floated the trial baloon peddling this s.hit.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    COMMUNAL HUMBUG

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Doing politics over dead bodies—- that is what was also done after Kargil which happened because of their failure to prevent intrusion by Pakistanis. Shameless people faking as patriots.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    anytime better than secular s.hit.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    I am against capital punishment. That position of mine is non-negotiable. On other issues that you have raised, I will refrain from interjecting in the very convenient dialogue happening between you and you know whom? :) ) ……I don’t directly address this person any more because I can never be on the same wavelength with him. He poses as a spokesman of the Hindus with no formal appointment by the community of which I am as much a member. His hero is the worst villain I can think of. So the matter ends there.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    On the other hand, some editors speak on behalf of the whole nation even with their pseudo credentials!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    No amount of bullying of badgering can change my views. They are mine, not borrowed from any political paatshala or shishu mandir.

    [Reply]

    manujsk Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma- What do you mean by “formal appointment”? You are talking the same language as the loser Congis who talk of the unelected tyrants :) I now see the reason you talk in a language thats obviously not taught in a Shishu Mandir. Was Dogvijay the principal and Prince your teacher? When you start losing, you start spewing venom. Have a point, make it. Why blabber? You have as much right to speak on this forum- no one would ever deny that :)
    The corollary to your argument is the editor should write for himself, and THIS prime minister should speak for a few hundred who sent him to the Rajya Sabha. Dogvijay should not speak for Osamajee, unless he produces a certi saying he was appointed. I never heard you ask Dogvijay to speak for himself, or did you? Since you are so good at pulling out 1984 articles, anything on Dogvijay?

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @manujsk
    A shishu mandir aluminus shedding tears. Give him a towel. Your language shows what kind of idiom is taught in those nursuries of hate,

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    @Vnod Sharma ji

    Sir
    Will you stop this punch-up when you say that Kargil happened when they failed to stop intrusions? Have you forgotten 26/11? The intrusion was from open sea and you could not stop them when the murderers were roaming free in the city of Mumbai. In Kargil, thousands of soldiers were involved while in Mumbai only ten trained terrorists held the city to hostage and brought shame to the country. Shame to this govt. for still taking so long to dispose the judicial proceedings of Kasab.
    Please stop this slugfest and stop this blame game .Introspect the feed back and respect disagreemenbt of opinions. The least we need to listen after 13/7 are the politicians and the so called opinion maker journalists. Just listen to the civil society about their pain. The one’s sitting in ivory towerws and having multi layers of security can hardly undertand th pain of a common man.
    BNA

    [Reply]

    wasim Reply:

    @vijay kumar…..First of all let me make clear that I am not pro congress or any thing with rahut…..but poor guy has just said our intellegence are capable of stoping 99% of terror…,but there are channces that one 1% can happen…..lets take …Have you ever committed to your parent in life for getting 100% score in Exam.. …I am sure you not …you keep 1% chance for any thing adverse..stop talking like INDIA TV and STAR PLUS

    [Reply]

  • Aaloke

    Observer,

    Probably you have not read my earlier post. Above post was reply to response of Shan on my earlier post.
    I also went through one of the links that you have provided in your earlier post ( American Thinker ). Have I written anything different from that link?

    I have stressed in my main post on Dangers of Islam to civilised world.My reference has been World” and not ” India” alone. If India had taken steps as recommended by you above, would problem of Islam have vanished in World or atleast in India..And why did Nehru and Indra Gandhi not take those required steps, because they were also ignorant about Islamic problem in its true perspective. Knowledge is what I have been stressing all through. My response to Islam is not coming due to my religion or faith I may be adhering to. It is coming from observing my immediate surroundings, Indian situation and world situation. analysing the situation, studying history and only then coming out with some Analysis. Unfortunately most of us have tendency for a very short concentration span. We immediately want to move on to some other issue without having done justice to earlier issue. Further, does it mean that we have only one problem that is Islam. Definitely not. We have many more problems, which is only natural . We have to take care of them as well. However at this moment we are here concentrating on a major world problem, that is ISLAM. I have raised this issue also because directly or indirectly, 80% of posts have some reference to Islam, whatever may have been topic of Blog. That includes your posts also.
    Well, my friend OBSERVER, we definitely need better OBSERVATION.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Let us pay a tribute to Mr Sunder Singh Bisht, a resident of Uttarakhand who came to Mumbai decades ago for rozi-roti. He was present on on previous 2 blasts but survived. Must be the world’s unluckiest man, that when he stepped out from work to eat vada paav with friends, he got hit again.

    I believe he is critical and unlikely to survive.

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story/mumbai-blasts-1993-2003-zaveri-bazar-blast-survivor-critically-injured/1/144871.html

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Mishraji, tears in my eyes. India is in the mess that it is because it is divided. This blog has these characters and at their feet I lay the blame for the death of Mr Bisht-
    Ravi- masquerading first as hindu, then as sikh. Abuses hindu gods, abuses anyone who exposes Islamic jehad
    Tajender aka ramavtar
    Shan- hates all things Indian with a vengeance – actually proud to be a Nirad Chowdhry clone
    Ziauddin Shafi- says Pakistan and Afghanistan is in a mess because of ‘hindu’ residual influence
    ———————
    PSEUDO F CKING SECULARS AND NIHILISTS AND SELF HATERS AND SELF DOUBTERS

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    All the persons oyu have mentioned are pseudos, a pseudo Hindu, a pseudo Sikh, a pseudo Nirad clone and at the head of the list is our very own pseudo secular editor.

    Khoob chal raha hai inka caravan!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    The rest in aprticular B.V. Shenoy are Crypto Fascists and H I N D U F U N D O s whose bale gardi is also trundling along.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    I said I was a Hindu and I stand by that statement.

    I said that I was a mona Sikh, I stand by that statement and I see no contradiction with the first statement.

    I also said that you are a congenital moron a, challa Sikh, who presents himself as a village harlequin. I stand by that statement.

    For a long time I have stayed away from personal abuse but you seem to want to re-start it. One can only surmise that you enjoy it.

    You asked for it, you got it.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    Ravi says he stands by all the statements he made about his being a Hindu, his being a Sikh, his being a mona, his being a secular, rational, national etc etc. But the one statement he didn’t make and couldn’t stand by is the one that he is a Wahabi jihadi terrorist in disguise allotted to this blog by the ISI along with the discarded Ram Sevak.

    Look how he dourly defended, single-handedly, his comrade for more than two months during which all the Hindu fundos here had carried on the “remove Tajender” campaign, finally leading to the Hindu fundo demand being accepted by a reluctant secular, Vinod Sharma!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    And who is this man calling Indians who disagree with his medieval version of India as wahabis, ISI agents et al? Does he hold a patta for India? For patriotism? He’s nothing but a second rung Hindu fanatic with a full time assingment to spread venom. If he really cared that much for the dead and the injured in Mumbai, he should have been in that city by now to help them rather than pontificating on his computer while his bandhua mazdoors (mostly muslims) stictched nikkars for his ideological masters. What a pretender. What an imposter.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Shenoy Saab
    when so much is known about the exploitation of Muslims in your Unit, what is the National Minorities Commission doing about it? Or is it all about ” What a pretender. What an imposter.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    What a PJ

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    for all his pseudo secular rant and fake indignation, he might himself have employed Muslim female minors as his maid servants (without pay, of course), by the divine right bestowed upon him as the member of NCM!

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy Ji

    I also stand by my statement that to you every thing boils down to Hindu vs Muslim.

    That makes you a COMMUNAL individual

    Because you come across as a right wing Hinduatva/Sanghi type.

    That makes you a Hindu Fundo and a Crypto fascist

    At the slightest pretext you take a pot shot at Vinod and you fail to realise that he genuinely holds liberal views and therefore veers towards congress, and that sticks in your gullet.

    That makes you a point scoring fool

    You mistake “tuk bandhi” to be poetry.

    That makes you a lousy poet

    I defended Tajendar from your clutches, not because I agree with all he says. I did that because you were hounding him an illiberal act.

    That makes you a bullying thug

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    He was in Gujarat in 2002 and had scored a 50 —- you know doing what. He is an out and out communalist. Ignore his rants.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    And Ravi is not a communalist???

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Raju Kurien
    No he isn’t —- and please understand that in english, hindi and malayalam. :) )

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinod Sharma claims that he has witnessed both pogroms-1984 in Delhi and 2002 in Gujarat.

    For the first time he accepted that 1984 too was a pogrom.

    I was not present in Gujarat to witness even his own partymen indulging in blood orgies, which he claims he has seen.

    I was most certainly present in Delhi in 1984, to witness, first hand, the mass murders his partymen committed with most capable support from the Delhi police.

  • Praveen Saxena

    Balwinderji you invited my to another blog , but the truth is that I am barred from that one. Probably the host found my comment too dangerous.So I do not care to visit it.. There are some blogs here which I regularly visit , and some I find very educative like Mr Pramit’s and now Kurakani too.and once in a while I post a comment too. But this one is our favourite inspite of the occasional snub.
    Ab yeh sab to chalta rehta hai.. Kabhi oonth naov par.. aur kabhi naov oonth par ….
    Now let us get back to work….
    Dr shah Alam writes

    ” when was it not? When in the last sixty four years of rule have we seen “governance” (not development) as it should matter for a democratic but poor nation? Can the present lack of inertia be assigned to the inefficiency of Manmohan Singh or to the corrupt ministers of UPA-2? Surely not Sir- they follow their predecessors or rather they follow the tradition. The absence of governance, is the sine qua non of the Indian political class irrespective of the party in power ”

    And he finds immense support from Mr Vinod . Strange no ? Who were in power for the most of the time in independent India? was it not …Do bailon ki jodi …. gai or bachda …. panja ? And when we deride the past should we forget Late Lal Bhadur Shastri ? Atalji … for what ever brief period they were in power ?
    Then Mr Vinod finds fault with the Indian Middle class. Is the Indian middle class one homogenous clearly demarcated segment. ? Was the Left thrown out in Bengal by the Middle Class or the farmers who were losing their land . And if they could win some seats in Kerala , was it on account of their secularism.
    Actually Mr Vinod is trying to find refuge in every comment which appears to divert the attention from the focus against the misdeeds of this governement.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Praveen

    Left is still the largest political party in Kerala. (with ref to your sattement, “did left win in kerala due to their secularism).

    Congress led coalition won by two seats because of their alliance with muslim league. There were four additional seats from Malappuram (a predominently Muslim district) due to Muslim population growth. Muslim league won all the seats (13 or so) from that district plus 7 from other districts, winning 20 of the 24 they contested. Muslim league is the third largest party in the state.

    Leftist fought on “an anti corruption platform” which Mr Achuthanandan, the outgoing CM was ale to portray efefctively. Rahul Gandhi’s public meetings were only half full maidans, whereas Achuthanadan had overflowing crowds. Leftists could have won if they organized and campaigned better (there was Achuthanandan and “official” party groupism) – they lost by less than 1000 votes in many constituencies.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi,

    Didn’t Nayanar, the then Left front CM, call Malappuram district “mini Pakistan”?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Expect nothing more from this boring man than calling people Pakistanis, wahabis, anti-national, anti-Hindu. He is trained to parrot all that. He comes here with that baggage to destroy debate.

    Ravi Reply:

    COMMUNAL HUMBG

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Not only Nayanar, mny others also have called it a “mini Pakistan”. But it was leftists who first created it, by EMS Namboodiripad’s communist government. At that time they thought they (leftists) will get the Msulim votes for ever; but they never got it.

    My prediction is tht kerala will become a Kashmir 10-20 yeras hence.

    Aadi Shankara went from kerala to Kashmir ! Look at the turn of events now!

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Well, there is a news item first unearthed by Malayala Manorama that a Pakistani citizen bought land/house in Kovalam beach (near Trivandrum) . It seems he was helped in this by senior politicians (both within the state and outside) and bureaucrats.

    Fox watching chicken….. and Major Sandip Unnikrishnans being martyred..

    It is time people like Digvijay (and Rahul Gandhi) are arrested and put behind bars

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    I have been reading your contributions for a while now and I will not have thought of you as being a COMMUNAL type, unless my judgement has deserted me.

    There are many areas – in the UK and in New York – where people of Pakistani origin live in some numbers. Other people – in a derogatory way – call these sections of their towns as mini-Pakistan. Similarly, there are mini India’s and China Towns in all major cities, some even have mini Jamaica’s.

    However, Keralite Mulsims have nothing in common with Pakistan. Some misguided individuals may have been told to look towards Pakistan for inspiration, etc. but that is not the generally widespread milieu

    So I submit to you to suggest that parts of Kerala will soon become Kashmir is mindlessly alarming.

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Yes Gopi , media has reported how the Congress led Front could form the government. We have also read about Achutanandan’s credentials as an honest and an upright CM.But Mr Vinod was on the side of the Congress led Front , as he usually is , and not the Left which he otherwise supports in his comment. My only intention was to underscore that Left performed well in Kerala as compared to Bengal for reasons other than what Mr Vinod had stressed in his comment.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Saxena
    U must not misquote. I always said that I want the Left to win in atleast one state. And while the results were coming out, I said it repeatedly on NDTV in a programme with Vinod Dua and Pachauri. Many senior Left leaders noticed that and were on the phone with me later. I am convinced that it is the Left (and not as much the Congress) that provides a solid ideological bulwark against communal forces.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Q) Yeh bangalore wala itna jhoot kyon bolta hai?
    A) Iska DNA fake hai
    Q) Yeh Sara din blog par kyo raheta hai
    A) Jhoot bolne ke liye

    [Reply]

    wasim Reply:

    Dear Sir!!!!
    First time have noticed you getting out of you…

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~~ PHIR KAR DI KAL KI BAATIEIN ~~ :D :D ~~

    Just I was congratulating the other blogmates for making you see reason that Digvinash adn Yuvraj have hijacked the Congress into insulting the MMS legacy and promoting sycophantic dynastic rule, it seems you have suddenly bounced back from the new found reason to Square A

    That is invoke Modi and BJP when terror has attacked India. Especially when the foot in the mouth Yuvraj was patting himself containing terror and Digviansh wanted us to compare ourselves to Pak-shit – stan and not US, China or UK.

    Sir, I think you need to out grow the mindset. When Your father had to flee Pakistan and my grandfather had to do the same, they probably equated India and Pakistan as physical equals but idelogically opposite.

    but now the reality Pakistan is a small country now in tatters which is communal, criminal and terrorist. Let us compare ourselves with China or US.

    And secondly dont try the Modi game… rape rape.. Modi aaya. The Congress has only purpose right now. To get the Yuvraj onto the PM’s chair. I request you should not allow yourself to be used in body and mind to make India suffer.

    That you display the intellectual honsety to demolish dynastic succession and sycophancy and not join the wolves.

    That you take on the jehadis and the Kasabs. And not get frightened into diverting attention fromt ehir blackdeeds…

    We, your blogmates have high expectations from you :D :D

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    This was addressed to the one and only Vindod Sharma :D :D

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Ravi

    When a Christian Professor’s hand gets chopped off for the bizarre delusion that a prophet has been insulted; when Keralite muslims have been so radicalised to be found in the embrace of Lashkar and al-Qaeda, then every sensible person says that a very dangerous line has been crossed.

    Ideologically parts of Kerala have thus become a mini Pakistan. Like here in UK, where the govt spends tens of millions of pounds looking for and arresting radicals virtually every month.

    Gopi pointing the above is a vigilant patriot, your trying to shrug it off makes you a ….. what? Thank God you do not run the RAW or the Home Ministry.
    Balwinder got emotional and overstated his case. But there is a truth in what he says- India is in a mess because there are too many apologists for virulent Islamist terror including many on this blog….

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I do not doubt that what Gopi and you are saying.

    My comment was that in proportional terms it seemed mindlessly alarmist.

    Further more I am not sure that Gopi’s or for that matter your comment is rooted in security.

    I think the real reason why both of you are making the point is that you are against the Muslim community acting as a visible and identifiable vote bank.

    This is communal rather than security issue.

    One professor does not a summer of discontent make.

    Today alone 5000 dalit girls would have been raped by upper caste Hindus as if it is their right to do so.

    Scores of Dalit men would also have been murdered today.

    I do not ever hear you supporting them.

    What that makes you ………… is as obvious as the vupine nose on my face.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi, Mishraji is bothered about the raping of dalits , for obvious reason ,and all the rant is essentially CROCODILE TEARS , he is off to saling in humberside.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ravi-

    I am talking squarely about security.

    It is not just one case, or simply being alarmist.

    Scores of Muslim youth have been arrested (not just rounding up muslims as seculrists will say) for actual training in Pakistan. Five Muslim youths (from Kerala) were killed in Kashmir in a shootout between Jawans and terrorists.

    T Nazir, the so called south india commander of LeT was extradicted from Bangla Desh.

    Nazir indicted Abdus Madani, the leader of PDP, and his wife Sufia Madni, for assisting in reruiting jehadis for Kashmir.

    And these were all before the chopping/sharia incident.

    where did you get the notion that he dalit killing is condoned? Obviously your imaination is going wild when you make statements like “scores of Dalits who will be murdered todaY, and “five thousand Dalit girlswho will be raped today”. Friend , India is bad; but not that bad.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Ravi

    If the situation were such as you describe then there would have been floods of dalits, who would desert Hinduism for Islam, like the Pathans, who did deserted in droves Said Ahmed of Rai Bareli, the fist Talibani in 1820s.

    The fanatic was killed by Sikh army under Sher Singh.

    Pakistan built Talibani movement, using Said Ahmed of Rai Bareli’s followers, who carried out Jihad against Ranjit Singh, as role model, Pahtans wanted no part of that jihad.

    Do you think Sher Singh violated Said Ahmed’s human rights when he killed him?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Observer

    I gather you read a lot and form your nuanced opinions on the basis of research.

    I suggest you take a look at this.

    Demographic statistics (Navarsajan 2009 – Dalit Human Rights Organization)
    Today, Dalits make up 16.2% of the total Indian population, but their control over the resources of the country is marginal – less than 5%. Close to half of the Dalit population lives under the poverty line, and even more (62%) are illiterate. Among the Dalits, most of those engaged in agricultural work are landless or nearly landless agricultural labourers. The average household income for Dalits was 17,465 rupees in 1998, just 68% of the national average. Less than 10% of Dalit households can afford safe drinking water, electricity and toilets, which is indicative of their deplorable social condition. Moreover, Dalits are daily victims of the worst crimes and atrocities, far outnumbering other sections of society in that respect as well. The vast majority of these crimes remain unreported due to omnipresent fear, and those that are reported are often ignored by police or end up languishing in the backlogged court system. Between 1992 and 2000, a total of 334,459 cases were registered nationwide with the police as cognizable crimes against Scheduled Castes. More than 60 years after gaining independence, India is still very much afflicted by the cancer of the caste system. Dalits remain the most vulnerable, marginalized and brutalized community in the country.

    …. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:eLoZmGNqqVgJ:www.mrt-rrt.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/87/IND31787.pdf.aspx+dalits+in+india+amnesty+international&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShc0Xt4FLYzqVHz97PeQTMv5o6geIFUoG-rFwXT1g0ZGGGMeG-lCMbfCFTzekF20VAGUojHdlCSxFqtx6GyTq7NPR-XFSvkff2vc6eNrjRj93f3Xt3SEutGvPU9wiUATCo5l_Rm&sig=AHIEtbRG0sb0xJd2NhFa_l5DiA8JlMqPqw

    Ravi Reply:

    Observer

    Some more research for your consideration.

    Physical violence and atrocities unleashed on the Dalits are the logical and cruel outcome of the caste system. The magnitude and the depth of these atrocities are horrifying. Between 1990 and 1993, over 4,300 cases of atrocities committed against Dalits were reported in Gujarat, and this in only 14 Districts. During that same period, atrocities increased by an astonishing 90%. This increase is, nevertheless, indicative of the Dalits’ assertion and reaction to injustice. While traditional caste-based practices still constitute the major cause of atrocities, a growing number of atrocities are triggered by the protest and the political organising of the Dalits. Refusing to accept any challenge to their hegemony, non-Dalits engage in violent repressive measures to silence any form of dissent among the Dalits. These measures range from brutal murders, such as burning individuals alive or stabbing them to death, to gang rape, arson, and grievous injuries. Significantly it is not upper castes alone who abuse the Dalits, but the Other Backward Castes (OBCs) too engage in oppression and physical violence. On a sample of 3083 offences in 13 Districts of Gujarat, it came out that Patels (Patidar and Koli Patels) were the accused in 34% of the cases, the Kshatriyas in 32%, and the Brahmins only in 7% of the cases.

    http://navsarjan.org/navsarjan/dalits/atrocitiesandinterventions

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    So what is your point? Somehere I read that 1% of US population controls 80% of its GDP and 90% of the wealth created in the last twenty years.

    Is there a rule that everything should be proportional? Last time we heard Russia and China tried that and did not succeed. The country was divided into two because Muslims wanted proportional seats and did not beleve in who gets majority in a constituency..

    There will always be differences — some individuals will far exceed others, in intelligence, in body strength, in wealth accumulation, in arts……

    Poor and invalids will be taken care of through either a highly supportive systems liek in Europe, or marginal systems like in US. There should be mechanism that people are not discriminated, there is equal opportunity etc.

    Unfortunately, in many places, especially in South India, it is the poor Barhmins who are discriminated against. They cannot get seats in professional colleges, because the number available is so small. And they acnnot afford to pay capitation fees to privat professional olleges because the capitation fees run into 10 plus lakhs.

    Observer Reply:

    Ravi,

    Then don’t you agree with me that we should change our focus from helping Muslims to helping dalits as Muslims are capable of fighting for themselves?

    In addition Muslims have got 1/4 land of India for themselves from which they have killed or expelled practically all HIndus, dalits included. Some dalits still remaining in Sindh fare far worse than dalits in India.

    So would you agree that Hajj and other subsidies should be eliminated and money saved should channeled to help dalits and tribals.

    So shouldn’t we ask politicians like Digvijay Singh, Mulayam, Lalu,etc. to stop talking about Muslims and ask them what they done for DALITS?

    Compared to other parts of India dalits have done better in Gujarat due to effort by Mahatma Gandhi and BJP, while in Anti-communalist West Bengal dalits have not done that well.

    VHP is in forefront of helping dalits, In Kerala they have recruited and trained Dalits to be priests,

    Observer Reply:

    Ravi,

    By the way you have not enlightened us about Said Ahmed of Rai Bareli.

    Ravi Reply:

    Observer

    Here are my answers to your questions.

    I would agree if what you meant is, that society should help the disadvantaged ireesepective of their caste and religion, then I agree with you.

    India is a secular society (however imperfect) and it behaves like one. Pakistan is a Muslim Republic under siege of Islamic Fundos, so it behaves like that. We should never ever stop from protesting about the plight of Hindus/Christians/Ahmedi’s etc in this Sunni dominated country. However, I am interested in India and not on Pakistan. I am not in a race.

    I know for sure that even Muslims do not like subsidies for Haj and I think it should be stopped. Subsidy for Amarnath Yatra should also be stopped and the money saved should be used to help the needy, from what ever strata of life.

    Yes we should ask all polticins when they talk about Muslims as why we are ignoring the plight of 250 million Dalits and Tribals of India.

    Regional variations exist in all states of India.

    If VHP are helping Dalits integrate into the Hindu society then I welcome their initiative. However, 3000 years of structural discrimination will take some doing if we are to reverse it.

    I am not familiar with Said Ahmed of Rae Bareli or of Aligarh Muslim University. If you mean Sir Syed Aehmad Khan, then I vague remember him being a freedom fighter and a reformer and I have positive feelings towards him.

    Observer Reply:

    Ravi,

    You said you are Sikh, so I assumed you would at least know History of Punjab up to annexation by British in 1847.

    Said Ahmed of Rai Bareli carried out Jihad against Ranjit Singh, and it failed and was killed in battle at Balkot.

    Ravi Reply:

    Observer

    Sorry I am not familar with Sikh history in as much of a detail as you are.

    I am sure that I am not alone in that respect.

    However, if this is an attempt to expose me as a Muslim and a Pakistani and on ISI payroll.

    Then add it to the already mounting fabricated evidence.

    Observer Reply:

    Ravi

    i am not concerned whether you are Pakistani or ISI or what not.

    It is only when anybody try to propagates something, particularly biased view, without any real evidence or with manufactured evidence that I challenge that person.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    AND YOU KNOW WHAT VINOD SHARMA, right now I would feel safer with a KPS GILL, JAGMOHAN, RIBEIRO OR A CERTAIN BAHUBALI FROM GUJRAT IN CHARGE OF SECURITY OF INDIA.
    WHY- I fly into Mumbai airport in 7 days time.
    Good night Sir

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Dr Mishra
    Jeko rakhey saayian maar sake no koye. Best of luck in Mumbai. I too go there very very frequently and without any fear.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    ravi says- ‘ Today alone 5000 dalit girls would have been raped by upper caste Hindus as if it is their right to do so. Scores of Dalit men would also have been murdered today. ‘

    Can the SENSIBLE BLOGGERS RESPOND TO THIS

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Can the SENSIBLE BLOGGERS RESPOND TO THIS- my comment on the hand chopping incident gets shrugged off by this ‘ One professor does not a summer of discontent make ‘

    Comments like 5000 dalit girls raped in India everyday, I see in glorious abundance on Pakistani newspapers everyday. I can excuse them for there is such a brainwashing in Pakistan that even junior doctors from Pak have said such trash when they are new to UK. A few years of living outside putridly infantile Pakistan , and interacting with Indians, disinvests them of such hideous exagerrations.

    SENSIBLE BLOGGERS , I await your responses.

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    There are two Pakistani websites – rupeenews.com and Islamabadglobe.com who constantly publish about Manusmrithi, Dalit killing, Muslim killing, Muslims as econd class citizens etc in India. I believe both these sites are government propaganda appartatus – that Paksitanis are Arab descendents, that Pakistan was there before India, that Indira Gandhi was a sexual pervert, that Mujibur Rehman wanted a larger Bangla Desh with Kolkotta as its capital etc etc

    Many Pakistani sympathisers from both sides of the border pick these up and use the statistics an info in their blogs as if these are all true. I believe many Pakistanis consider these as true because of the overhaul of education system and history overseered by Zia al Haq..

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shoeb,

    you are right. One such Pakistani was actually thrown out from this blog.

    The remaining one still persists in his swallow-and-vomit job here on behalf of his masters.

    Ravi Reply:

    B. V. Shenoy

    My vomit on behalf of my masters is still better than the loose motion you produce here on behalf of your RSS masters.

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    The Following are just randomly picked up from “Outlook India.com a very famous Pakistani site sponsored by the ISI

    1. The fourth absconding accused in the dalit girl rape case, in which BSP MLA Purshottam Naresh Dwiwedi and his two aides have been arrested, today surrendered in a local court here.

    Ravan Garg surrendered before Chief Judicial Magistrate Tripta Chaudhary who remanded him to judicial custody for 14 days, officials said here.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?708813

    2. A minor Dalit girl was allegedly kidnapped and raped by a youth in the district following which a case has been registered against him and his accomplice, police said here.

    The victim, a class 10th student, hails from Aminwala village, was allegedly kidnapped by Pawan Kumar (22) and his friend while she was on her way to buy some essentials, police said.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?693789

    3. A 10-year-old dalit girl was gangraped and burnt alive while another minor from the community and a mentally challenged teenager were sexually assaulted in fresh rape cases in UP ahead of the planned launch of a campaign by Mayawati Government to tackle crime.

    In Ghaziabad, a 10-year-old dalit girl was gang-raped and burnt alive in Anwarpur village, police said. The incident came a week after a 35-year-old woman was allegedly gang-raped and burnt alive by three persons in Etah.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?725931

    4. Batala, Feb 28 (PTI) A minor Dalit girl was raped by two brothers at Chainewal village in the district here today, police said.
    The girl was kidnapped from a bus by the duo while she was on her way to meet a relative.
    Sonu Masih and his brother Bhinda Masih, residents of Khokhar village took her to a deserted spot where they raped her repeatedly.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?549358

    “Dalits in several regions of the country continue to be denied access to schools, places of worship, resources, food and dignity. The government’s own records admit to even worse atrocities: every hour, two Dalits are assaulted; every day, two Dalit houses are burnt, three Dalit women raped, and two Dalits murdered. Recognising this in internal documents is fine, but when it comes to international forums, our government tries to brush this enormity under the carpet, calling it a “family” or “internal” matter. The fig leaf behind which it hides, of course, is that we have a liberal constitution, drafted under the aegis of a renowned Dalit, that bars all forms of discrimination, including caste-based ones.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?250257

    So Dr Mishra, these obviously do not attract your attention. You are not alone in that respect.

    Why you chose to select bad things about Indian Muslims and ignore the issues within the larger Indian society, is for you to know.

    Lets not forget the 16 million female foetus’s has also escaped your comment.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Here is another Pakistani propaganda aginst Hindu’s.

    This very popular Pakistani investigative magazine is called Thelka. It is entirely funded by ISI.

    SPECIAL REPORT

    Doomed by Caste Damned by Gender

    Rape continues to be a weapon of oppression against Dalits in Uttar Pradesh, despite the state having a Chief Minister who is herself a woman and a Dalit
    by SHOBHITA NAITHANI, photographs VIJAY PANDEY

    .. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne240710doomed.asp

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Ravi,
    You are worse than a Pakistani criminal. You are a liar and a thug. You cherry-pick news items and view everythiung through the commuinal castist prism and the following will show why I am right when I say your postings are verifiable garbage.

    Following your Tehelka posting about rape of dalit women in UP, I did a quick follow up to see if Dalits ( Scheduled castes and Tribes ) are victims of rape any more than any other castes in UP. Here is what I find.

    From your own , Tehelka link

    1. How many Dalits Raped in UP ?

    “http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne240710doomed.asp

    According to the National Crime Records Bureau, the number of rape cases involving Dalit women in Uttar Pradesh was 375 in 2008, the highest in the country. In 2007, the year Mayawati took charge as CM, 318 rapes were reported; the year before, the rape tally was 240.

    2. How many Non-Dalits Raped in UP

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/UP-has-lowest-rape-rate-among-all-states-NCRB/articleshow/9022548.cms

    The National Crime Records Bureau’s publication Crime in India 2009 – the latest edition of that annual report – shows that with 1,759 rape victims in 2009,

    I did not find the 2008 figures, so 2009 figures should be good for comparison.

    So about 1759 – 375 = approximately 1300-1400 non-Dalits raped in UP.

    3. Dalits make what % of the population of UP ?

    http://www.nacdor.org/TEXT%20FILES/Dalit.htm

    SCHEDULED CASTES

    According to the 2001 Census, the Scheduled Castes population in India is 166,635,700 persons, constituting 16.2 per cent of the country’s total population. Being rural people, four fifth (79.8 per cent) of them live in rural areas and rest one-fifth (20.2 per cent) live in urban areas. The sex ratio of 936 females per thousand males is slightly higher than national average of 933 sex ratios.

    The highest percentage of Scheduled Castes population to the total Scheduled Castes population of the country live in Uttar Pradesh (21.1 per cent) followed by West Bengal (11.1 per cent)

    So Dalits in UP make 21.1% of 166 million scheduled castes in India or about 34 million, as per 2001 census..

    http://www.educationforallinindia.com/page133.html

    Population of UP as per 2001 Census is about 16 % of 1.027 billion or 162 million. So Dalits made 34 million of 162 million people in UP in 2001 or 20.98%

    So of the total rapes in UP, the number of Dalits raped comes to about 375 of 1759 in 2008 or about 21.31%

    As the evidense shows, the % of Dalits raped is very similar to % of non-dalits raped as % of their population.

    @Ravi,
    Thats why I am right when I say you pout utter castrist , communal filth here and your postings verifiable garbage than ever before.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    For Ravi, a couple of zeroes do not make any difference, he had to make the point for retaining Vinod Sharma’s high rate of approval, with a “he is an Indian, he is a secular(!)” certificate already under his belt. He has rationalised the “mini Pakistan” issue saying that even England has such areas! What stupendous secular humbug!!

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Actually, Vinod Sharma’s certificate, “RAVI IS NOT A COMMUNALIST” comes in three languages: English, Hindi (for Praveen Saxena’s benefit) and Malayalam (for Gopi and Raju Kurien’s benefit) !

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Considering that your mastery of any of these languages is suspect, that is why you continue to label me as Pakistani, because unable to contend with the point I make, you try to discredit me.

    This is one of the first tricks taught at the RSS Shishu Mandir.

  • shan

    @COW Belt wallahs and OBSESSIONAL PAKISTAN BASHING NEUROTICS AND BRAMHINICAL AGE OLD HYPOCRISY(crocodile tears) EAT YOUR HEART OUT , keep talking about “Mini Pakistan” in kerala , the state with the highest sex scandal
    New Delhi: “We should continue doing whatever we are doing”, said India’s Tourism Minister Subodh Kant Sahay yesterday, while the financial capital of India reeled under a terror jolt yet again and the Minister brazenly attended a fashion show in the capital.

    Possibly, the national leader was only trying to lead by example! About how we can continue to live it up even under the shadow of terror.

    So when Mumbai was burning, the elected representatives of our nation were busy watching models wearing sequinned dresses and gowns.

    Along with the tourism minister also present at the fashion gala was Delhi’s former mayor Aarti Mehra. Apparently, they had assembled at Hotel Grand, on insistence of Ashok Kumar Pradhan, former Union minister and senior BJP leader, whose daughter, a fashion designer, was presenting her debut collection of classic romance.

    It was also learnt that some Mumbai celebs including, Suresh Oberoi, Madhur Bhandarkar, Mugdha Godse and Anushka Sharma, were having gala time with their Delhi friends.

    When a journalist tried to speak to Aarti Mehra, she said, “I am feeling sad about it (the Mumbai blasts). But again, life must go on. Ashok is like a big brother to me. I am here only for him.”

    “Even after incidents like these, life doesn`t come to a standstill. We should continue doing whatever we are doing,” said a gung-ho Subodh Kant Sahay.

    Now, that’s quite a statement Mr Sahay, considering your position and the ‘occasion’.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    for once you spoke with some sense.

    Even during the 26/11war on India, the Yuvraj too was frolicking in some farm house, enjoying the company of you-know-who the whole night. Not even the gravest armed attack on the financial capital of the nation could wean him away from the fun and merry-making.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Was he fun and frolicking with Digvinash or Amar dalla ??? :D

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    I am not sure if the Indian National Leadership is unique in advising people – to continue with their lives as normal. Most governments will do that.

    The alternative is to paralyse the society, which is exactly what the terrorist hopes.

    Surely you are not advising that we allow the terrorist to win.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ Ravi, Utter bollocks, we are asking to be tad sensitive to the suffering of the hapless people.
    Perhaps postponing the FASHION SHOWS with babes in skimpy dress IS A NOT A MASSIVE DEMAND TO MAKE.Nobody is saying every indian should wallow in grief ,but at least be sensitive.same thing happened after gujrat earthquake ,when many people took the visit to get a taste of earthquake ravaged area.THIS IS INDIA, that explains a lot about your dalit killings and dalit rape.SMUGNESS is in the DNA of INDIANS, the mishra class have a gene amplication of this smug behaviour ,YOUR MATE ASHISH IS NOT FAR BEHIND.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Thank you SHOEB, GOPI, SHENOY for bringing decency and proportionality into the debate.

    The sharing of intelligence at a national level by a 21st century intelligence org is the burning need of the hour. Otherwise, a hand chopping incident in Kerala remains isolated and buried by that dreaded Indian disease- sab chalta hai.

    Shoeb, not just the junk sites you mentioned, even Express Tribune has infantile rubbish blogged everyday- and you can tell that despite the ‘hindu’ ID of those who blog on Pakistani newspapers, the spouting of such rubbish clearly shows that those bloggers have never lived in India.

    Incidentally, from Mumbai I am going sailing and windsurfing in Maharashtra and Kerala

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ——————————–
    Shan and Ravi..
    ——————————
    Just came back after a while. The level of debate here , seems to be getting worse.

    As usual, Shan , probably kicked below the belt , by some cow when he was young, cannot get over cows and cow-belt. I mean, how pathetic can this guy get when all his writings begin by some reference to cow-belt ? I just stopped reading as soon as I saw the mention to cow-belt !
    His banal and idiotic writings are enough to condemn him to an IQ lower than any emaciated cow in Bengal.

    Ravi, as usual, puting his filth , when he says “..Today alone 5000 dalit girls would have been raped by upper caste Hindus as if it is their right to do so. Scores of Dalit men would also have been murdered today. …”

    I mean is a a paid Pak criminal here ? Do we have headlines of ‘Ksatriya girl raped. Bragmin man robbed .. ? ”
    Its only certain castist section of media that reduces any crime to a caste issue. In everyday life in India, I see caste play a most insignificant role. However, in some callous minds and criminal politicians, can think only of that.

    Or do crimes happen to only people of certain castes ?
    I mean the castist filth, that permeates the writings of Shan and Ravi is despicable.
    I dont know if Ravi is a **** peddler or a Castist thug like Mayawati but his references to caste and seeing every thing from a communal, castist angle reduces him to a certifiable scum.

    @Mishra,
    Well write back after your surfing off the Indian West coast.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajiv, you grew in length in calcutta not in intellect . Not a SINGLE RAY of bengal renaissance ever penetrated you .The COW BELT is a metaphor to the backwardness , misogyny , acultural , crude society , treats womenfolks as chattel.Oh yes they vote according to the caste or religion of the candidate.and also notorious for female foeticide.JUST HOLDING A MIRROR IN FRONT OF YOU

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you should once again see “Sahib, bibi, Ghulam” picture to see how Bengalis treatede their women-worse than chattel The Thakur gives supari to have his wife murdered! This is your renaissance!!

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    RAJIV with I, welcome back and thank you for bringing sanity back to the blog.

    Dr Shah Alam- welcome back to you too. Shall be dropping in on my alma mater AIIMS in mid August and will look you up. Liked your lines- ‘ The absence of governance, is the sine qua non of the Indian political class irrespective of the party in power. Why otherwise would the highest court of law take matters of governance in it’s hands with such frightening frequency? (surely a dangerous trend in all respects for a functioning democracy) ‘

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Mishra,
    I dont think its possible to have sanity in this blog when you have the ‘wilfully insane” or worse.

    So wilful insanity, may restore some temporary semblence of sanity or maybe not.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv, Dr. Mishra, Observer, Gopi and Pankaj ji,

    from the contents of the posts Ravi has proliferated this blog with, you can easily make out that once again, Tajender has taken over the job, may be under the directive from the ISI. The verbiage is typical, for which Tajender was expelled by the so tolerant secular Vinod Sharma.

    With this kind of senseless, pointless bombardment, what kind of sanity are you hoping for?

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Some more Pakistani anti Hindu propaganda.

    This one cites Amnesty International – a branch of ISI.

    Crimes Against Women

    Dalit women are particularly hard hit. They are frequently raped or beaten as a means of reprisal against male relatives who are thought to have committed some act worthy of upper-caste vengeance. They are also subject to arrest if they have male relatives hiding from the authorities.

    A case reported in 1999 illustrates the toxic mix of gender and caste.

    A 42-year-old Dalit woman was gang-raped and then burnt alive after she, her husband, and two sons had been held in captivity and tortured for eight days. Her crime? Another son had eloped with the daughter of the higher-caste family doing the torturing. The local police knew the Dalit family was being held, but did nothing because of the higher-caste family’s local influence.

    There is very little recourse available to victims.

    A report released by Amnesty International in 2001 found an “extremely high” number of sexual assaults on Dalit women, frequently perpetrated by landlords, upper-caste villagers, and police officers. The study estimates that only about 5 percent of attacks are registered, and that police officers dismissed at least 30 percent of rape complaints as false.

    The study also found that the police routinely demand bribes, intimidate witnesses, cover up evidence, and beat up the women’s husbands. Little or nothing is done to prevent attacks on rape victims by gangs of upper-caste villagers seeking to prevent a case from being pursued. Sometimes the policemen even join in, the study suggests. Rape victims have also been murdered. Such crimes often go unpunished.

    Thousands of pre-teen Dalit girls are forced into prostitution under cover of a religious practice known as devadasis, which means “female servant of god.” The girls are dedicated or “married” to a deity or a temple. Once dedicated, they are unable to marry, forced to have sex with upper-caste community members, and eventually sold to an urban brothel.

    http://www.womenutc.com/dalit.htm

    Why Hindu Fundos ignore such cases is because Caste Discrimination is ordained in Hinduism.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Well, obviously in a land of 1200 crore people, some do something to some.

    Is it state sanctioned?

    Dont people have right to courts?

    Why is BIMARU states called BIMARU in literal sense..they are centuries behind.

    Why something like thiswill never happen in kerala or Tamil Nadu?

    Is it universal all across inda or restricted to some states?

    If this is as wide as Corruption, why are there no nationwide movement – India always had nationwide movements, the most recent being “anti corruption”. Or is it ebcause Indians do not care

    If I were you, I will not use Tehelka as the standard bearer .. After all they were the ones who destroyed a Gandhian like George Fernandes at congress’ beckoning.

    Nobody in India – high caste/low caste- will condone killing and ill-treatment of Dalits or anybody. Murders and abuse happen because people are people. One can always find a reason – caste, colour, rich/poor, language..etc etc. There is always a reason for people looking for reason. But anybody who goes back to a story of 1999 is one who really wants castism to prevail.

    And no wonder – Ravi (as well as his **** sites) bring up this devdasi system — We are all living in some other India if there are 1000s of dalit girls as devdasis – first of all, Desvdasis of yesteryears were not Dalits (because Dalits could not enter many temples in those days) – Shrimathi Subbalakshmi, the great Carnatic musician, an a Bahrat Ratna recipient was a devdasi girl.

    So thousands of girls as Devdasis, 5000 dalit girls raped a day, scores of dalits killed a day– bring on more…
    Is Mayawati a Dalit or a Brhmin?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Raju,

    the mention of devadasi girls exposes the shallow research done in 1999 and 2001 by the Amnesty International, an organisation which even many white countries do not believe, because of their bias and lack of credibility.

    About rapes, recently even a white Australian woman was gang raped. Some time ago, a college girl was gang raped in Delhi.

    About police taking bribes, it is hardly any secret that police take bribes from both disputing sides, which is almost a rule under which the departments work all over the country.

    In the latest case, the Supreme Court of India castigated the Delhi poilice for not acting at all on a complaint lodged by no less a person than the Secretary General of the Lakasabha in the cash-for-votes case. If the topmost bureaucrat of the highest law making body of the country can thus be ignored, what about ordinary folks?

    But, Ravi?Tajender is consumed by passionate hatred for Hindus and he will continue in his swallow-and-vomit journalism here.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Ravi,

    Personally I believe that Tehlka targeted Bangru Laxman because he was dalit and was rising in BJP,, both are anathema to CQs.. From CQ perspective both are UNTOUCHABLES.

    From their perspective George Fernandes joining NDA was not acceptable either. So I believe Muslims in BJP has to be SUPER CORRUPTION FREE, in order to survive Tehlka sting operation.

    Tehlka has single point agenda to prevent disadvantaged groups from finding other options.

    what is your opinion?

    I think a quota system should be forced upon News media.

    HT should set example by firing people such as Vir Sanghavi, Sangarika Ghosh, Karan Thappar and others and replace them by dalits and tribals so that we can get a perspective from disadvantaged groups.

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    to all -

    Ravi is a Pakistani — he remarked in in one of his comments on Zia’s blog “you Hindus drove my family from Sialkot to Delhi”— obviouly it was a slip, what he meant was from Delhi to Sialkott.

    Ashish pulled this from the blog – I do not know how to pull this; but any “blog/cmputer experts” should be able to pull this from Zia’s blog.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    lets see what results this plea brings.

    Ashish if you have the quote attributed to you above, then please share it with others here.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Ravi is a liar, 1st and fore-most. That is his primary identity.

    I have exposed his lies regarding ‘dalit rapes in UP ‘ in the posts that follow , in this blog.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ RAVI

    There is much confusion behind your NRI brain. we have clashed before and though I dont want to, your lovey dovey vibes with Tajendar makes me suspicious.

    I must sadly tell you that you have become a victim of cliches’. And pedlling anti Hindu iSI propoganda at every turn.

    You see Ravi, UK the land which perfected the theory of divide and rule could not even control Ireland, Scotland and Wales in the end. All because of a religious and linguistic and regional divide. While India with hinduism as its central glue can keep in 100 religions and 40 states. Admire that and tell your rulers in UK, especially the protestants to learn from India :D :D

    But… your own posts demean and insult Hindus at every comma and fullstop. Do you thihk you become a leiveral just by insulting Hindus, the central glue which holds India together?

    Why cant you apply the same standards of judgement to other religions in the country?

    Do you think that like many other idiots in this country it is imprtant to talk about hindu terror and fundos as soon as an outsider and possibly an Islamic terrorist kills peopel in MUmbai.

    Sorry Ravi. I am losing respect for you and your postings. You claim you are a Sialkoti. Remeber the day your bhaapa had to run bag and baggage when some cruel fantaics wanted to kidnap women fromyour house.

    Today out of a Stockholm syndrome or a fear you want to side up with the same killers…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    You are a free man. Free to form what ever opinion you like.

    I do not actively seek your approval.

    Every thing I have posted here is from RESPECTABLE Indian periodicals and Amnesty Internation.

    If you do not respect them and feel that they are victims of post colonial divide and rule policies, then so be it.

    Do you seriously belive that they set out to be anti Hindu. Only you can answer that.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    There are many ways of slanting debates. One is an unequal distribution of matter. In case I were to post 350 pages of GaDAffi’s speechesw here, it would not end up being the truth.

    Your selective writings tilteda against Hindus, only remiends me of the idiots who want to blame HIndus eve for 26/11.

    If you are so concerned about women– why dont you stand at Soho in London and selling of their bodies by women?

    Rescue the british girls from getting screwed for money…

    Rescue the bosnoions and French from the brothels in Paris. And of course you should hold a hunger strike in Reeparbham, Amsterdam and hamburg.

    Bahut zulam ho raha hai un bechari auraoton par . Every night rape for money is happening . Please go on a hunger strike there. They need you more :D

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I am not sure I was by any means creating unequal distribution of matter. Most posts here are communal in their slant.

    So here is my last word.

    Every society has issues, such as racism, poverty, class/caste discriminations etc.

    A sensible person would look at each of the issues and form an opinion about them. Should one disregard some issues, and focuses only on one, then it is not wrong for me to conclude that such a person has an axe to grind.

    In particular, here, Dr Mishra had cited a case from Kerala involving atrocities committed my deranged Muslims. My contention is that he CHOSE to mention that because he is COOMUNLAL in his outlook. This was chosen deliberately because it involved Muslims.

    Had he been concerned about the welfare of India in totality, then he would, from time to time, pick some of the other very important issues. Sadly, he does not.

    Where as my view is that Islamic Violence is an utterly deplorable phenomenon; however that is not the only ill that is afflicting India.

    I for one care about all Indians not just the middle class Hindus.

    If for that reason, you feel you are not able to respect me, then that is a free choice you make.

    I think you have not been to Soho lately; it is much cleaner than it used to be.

    However, if I was to start a movement to clean prostitution then I would include GB Road and Bhindi Bazar, too.

    You are absolutely right that every night rape for money does happen. I am not the one who is condoning it.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Should we now expect Vinod Sharma to write an articel about one Ravi, on hunger strike on GB Road protesting against rape for money and an article in the Daily Telegraph about an Indian protesting against rape for money in Soho. And so m uch so in Reeperbahm. Of course in Dubai if you were to protest… u could end up in 30 yrs jail…

    @ Vinodji

    Look forward to such an article…

    Mahesh Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,
    Be honest and answer his post in entirety.
    - Mahesh.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    So is your point that.

    India should become like Dubai.

    Or

    Ravi and Vinod should stop picking on India and start a tirade against Dubai.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Congratulations. You feel that you have the originator of this blogsite, Vinod Sharma on your side :D

    @ mahesh

    In comlete honsty my thesis is simple. When ravi says that 5000 Dalit women are raped every night, he has no statistcal proofs. Just rantings to make India feel bad. Something like Pakistani propoganda.

    let me tell you even though I am a Punjabi, I travel around UP pretty well. The Dalits know their vote power. In fact a single rape becomes a huge issue. Ravi’s rantings are dreams from a past era;.

    Yes, I know London like the back of my hand. The massage parlours and prostitutions and Call girls advertised in each paper is also sophisticated rape for money, in my view. Walking around Soho gets you 5 wsolicatiations per iminute. So instead of making remarks about India and saying that 5000 rapes are happenign every night (all being untrue), Ravi should bother about Hamburg and reeparbahm where rapes for oney are happening right now.

    He could go on a hunger strike outside the brothels and protect the honour of women being looted there… :D :D

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    That is inaccurate and grossly unfair.

    Every thing I have stated has been sourced from Indian newspapers, magazines as well as international institutions.

    If they are rants, then they are not only mine but also of many other people.

    Regards

    Ravi

    Mahesh Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,
    Nice to see you maintaining a count of solicitations you experienced in London. Good to see that you remember those areas so much like back of your hand . Fond memories seldom wither quickly, no ?
    Both Ravi and Rajiv have posted there sources – yould you care to be honest enough in atleast saying these need to re-conciled ?
    BTW, speaking of honesty – it all started with generalisations made about kerala muslims, right ? Care to opine a bit on those generalisations too ? Or, is it that honesty too has statrted donning amnesia to fit a rather communal point of view ?
    - Mahesh.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Mahesh

    As a traveller you visit some places and read about some. I take care NOT to become a user of any vice den. But it does not mean that I cannot point out the truth about them to a hypocrite who is shedding fake tears about imaginery rapesto demorailse India at the behest of the ISI propoganda cell :D :D

    Mahesh Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,
    Where do generalisations made about kerala muslims fit in all this ?
    Or, have you chosen to rather recite in concert too ?
    - Mahesh.

  • Rajiv

    @Ravi,
    You are much worse than a Pakistani criminal or a jihadi propogandist.
    You cherry-pick news items and view everything through the commuinal castist prism and the following will show why I am right when I say your postings are verifiable garbage.

    Regarding your Tehelka posting about rape of dalit women in UP, I did a quick follow up to see if Dalits ( Scheduled castes and Tribes ) are victims of rape any more than any other castes in UP. Here is what I find.

    From your own , Tehelka link

    1. How many Dalits Raped in UP ?

    http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne240710doomed.asp

    According to the National Crime Records Bureau, the number of rape cases involving Dalit women in Uttar Pradesh was 375 in 2008, the highest in the country. In 2007, the year Mayawati took charge as CM, 318 rapes were reported; the year before, the rape tally was 240.

    2. How many Non-Dalits Raped in UP

    economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/UP-has-lowest-rape-rate-among-all-states-NCRB/articleshow/9022548.cms

    The National Crime Records Bureau’s publication Crime in India 2009 – the latest edition of that annual report – shows that with 1,759 rape victims in 2009,

    I did not find the 2008 figures, so 2009 figures should be good for comparison.

    So about 1759 – 375 = approximately 1300-1400 non-Dalits raped in UP.

    3. Dalits make what % of the population of UP ?

    http://www.nacdor.org/TEXT%20FILES/Dalit.htm

    SCHEDULED CASTES

    According to the 2001 Census, the Scheduled Castes population in India is 166,635,700 persons, constituting 16.2 per cent of the country’s total population. Being rural people, four fifth (79.8 per cent) of them live in rural areas and rest one-fifth (20.2 per cent) live in urban areas. The sex ratio of 936 females per thousand males is slightly higher than national average of 933 sex ratios.

    The highest percentage of Scheduled Castes population to the total Scheduled Castes population of the country live in Uttar Pradesh (21.1 per cent) followed by West Bengal (11.1 per cent)

    So Dalits in UP make 21.1% of 166 million scheduled castes in India or about 34 million, as per 2001 census..

    http://www.educationforallinindia.com/page133.html

    Population of UP as per 2001 Census is about 16 % of 1.027 billion or 162 million. So Dalits made 34 million of 162 million people in UP in 2001 or 20.98%

    So of the total rapes in UP, the number of Dalits raped comes to about 375 of 1759 in 2008 or about 21.31%

    As the evidense shows, the % of Dalits raped is very similar to % of non-dalits raped as % of their population.

    @Ravi,
    Thats why you are more a verifiable scum and a thug, castist propogansist than ever before and those that have a very poor opinion of you and what you write and right.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    My detailed post will all links showing that the number of ra p es of dalits in UP is in proportion to their percentage of the population in UP.. is going into “your comment is awaiting moderation” hole.

    Basically , Dalits make about 21% of the population of UP and in 2008/9 the number of rapes of salits ( schedules castes ) in UP was about 21% of total rapes.

    Once that is posted , you would know the propoganda by Ravi is lieful and false and as usual garbage.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Here is my attempt to break down my post , thats going to “moderation” hole, into 3 parts.

    Part 1.

    @Ravi,
    You are much worse than a Pakistani criminal or a jihadi propogandist.
    You cherry-pick news items and view everything through the commuinal castist prism and the following will show why I am right when I say your postings are verifiable garbage.

    Regarding your Tehelka posting about rape of dalit women in UP, I did a quick follow up to see if Dalits ( Scheduled castes and Tribes ) are victims of rape any more than any other castes in UP. Here is what I find.

    From your own , Tehelka link

    1. How many Dalits Raped in UP ?

    http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne240710doomed.asp

    According to the National Crime Records Bureau, the number of rape cases involving Dalit women in Uttar Pradesh was 375 in 2008, the highest in the country. ….

    ( that may be because UP also has the highest number of Dalits of any state in India ! )

    .. continued to part 2.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    .. Part 2

    2. How many Non-Dalits Raped in UP

    economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/UP-has-lowest-rape-rate-among-all-states-NCRB/articleshow/9022548.cms

    The National Crime Records Bureau’s publication Crime in India 2009 – the latest edition of that annual report – shows that with 1,759 rape victims in 2009,

    I did not find the 2008 figures, so 2009 figures should be good for comparison.

    So about 1759 – 375 = approximately 1300-1400 non-Dalits raped in UP.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    conclusion and part3

    3. Dalits make what % of the population of UP ?

    w w w.nacdor.org/TEXT%20FILES/Dalit.htm

    ….
    According to the 2001 Census, the Scheduled Castes population in India is 166,635,700 persons, constituting 16.2 per cent of the country’s total population. Being rural people, four fifth (79.8 per cent) of them live in rural areas and rest one-fifth (20.2 per cent) live in urban areas. The sex ratio of 936 females per thousand males is slightly higher than national average of 933 sex ratios.

    The highest percentage of Scheduled Castes population to the total Scheduled Castes population of the country live in Uttar Pradesh (21.1 per cent) followed by West Bengal (11.1 per cent)

    So Dalits in UP make 21.1% of 166 million scheduled castes in India or about 34 million, as per 2001 census..

    w w w.educationforallinindia.com/page133.html

    Population of UP as per 2001 Census is about 16 % of 1.027 billion or 162 million. So Dalits made 34 million of 162 million people in UP in 2001 or 20.98%

    So of the total rapes in UP, the number of Dalits raped comes to about 375 of 1759 in 2008 or about 21.31%

    As the evidense shows, the % of Dalits raped is very similar to % of non-dalits raped as % of their population.

    @Ravi,
    Your propogansist falsehoods exposed.
    You bring nothing to debate here except lies and filth.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv

    As usual you have given a analysis which only you can give! Point by point and a factual rebuttal of vague alleagations…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vague alegations….just goes to show you do not read.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    It complete exposes Ravi as a liar when he was trying to use Tehelka to say that Dalits are victims of rape by upper castes in UP as part of his regular propogandist diatribes motivated by comunal and castist filth.
    The facts show that incidense of rape in UP is caste-neutral.

    Not only it exposes Ravi’s lies, it also exposes how dishonest he is , as he wont apologize for his lies.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    ravi–
    so ur tehlka article is right–Rajiv’s is not?

    Ur womenutc website is right but whateve he is pointing to is not?

    And there are thousands of devdasis (that too from Dalit community) being trained for prostitution by high caste?
    and 5000 or so Dalit girls being raped by high caste Indians every night?
    And scores of Dalits killed by high catse Indians every day/

    (is it in one particular state or five states or all over???)

    And bring on more! Yu are something!

    Ravi Reply:

    Here is what I posted from Tehelka.

    Ravi Reply:

    July 15th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Here is another Pakistani propaganda aginst Hindu’s.

    This very popular Pakistani investigative magazine is called Thelka. It is entirely funded by ISI.

    SPECIAL REPORT

    Doomed by Caste Damned by Gender

    Rape continues to be a weapon of oppression against Dalits in Uttar Pradesh, despite the state having a Chief Minister who is herself a woman and a Dalit
    by SHOBHITA NAITHANI, photographs VIJAY PANDEY

    .. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main46.asp?filename=Ne240710doomed.asp

    Which of this post is MY WORD and therefore MY PROPOGANDA.

    Considering that what ever Rajiv has posted is from exactly the same link.

    So if it is propoganda than whose propoganda is it, Rajiv’s or mine.

    Considering they are exactly the same link.

    Ravi Reply:

    मेरी दासताँ को जरा सा बदल कर मुझे ही सुलाया सुबेरे सुबेरे

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    Rajiv has given the latest figures and facts pertaining to 2009, whereas the jihadi has swallowed and vomitted shop-worn, cliche’d and disreputable figures said to be pertaining to 1999 and he goes on to call Tehelka and Amnesty reliable! What a joke!!

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    Ravi,
    You could’ve chosen to question the sweeping generalisations made about Kerala Muslims.
    Unfortunately, you chose to respond in those same reactionary terms.
    You were doing great – and yet somehow you chose to screw it up. Truly depressing.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    I dealt with the topic as felt fit.

    Sorry if it depressed you.

    However, why don’t you elaborate your own views here.

    I would welcome them, even if they are against me.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    I thought I had already opined ….” question the sweeping generalisations made about Kerala Muslims”.
    My own post was on your response. A little more questioning could’ve very well exposed the generalisations for all they were.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv:The facts of the Tahelka article are not any different from statistical facts I have presented,.
    However , as motivated and biased media goes, the Tahelka article while highlinging incidense of rape of dalit women, forgot to mention that 78% of rapes in UP happen to Non-Dalit women !!!

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Raju Kurian,
    The facts of the Tahelka article are not any different from statistical facts I have presented,.
    However , as motivated and biased media goes, the Tahelka article while highlinging incidense of rape of dalit women, forgot to mention that 78% of rapes in UP happen to Non-Dalit women !!!

    The only difference is, Ravi was using partial facts to suit his lies and propoganda against Hinduism in general. I am sure, Ravi is not an idiot and he could have easily seen how the tehelka report was wilfully misleading but such misleading reporting was in sync with his own dishonest lies and fabrications that he posts here.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    I said this and got an avalanche of anti Dalit crime statistics from Ravi- ‘ Ravi, When a Christian Professor’s hand gets chopped off for the bizarre delusion that a prophet has been insulted; when Keralite muslims have been so radicalised to be found in the embrace of Lashkar, then every sensible person says that a very dangerous line has been crossed ‘
    Thanks to Rajiv, Shoeb, Kurien, Vijay, Observer, Shenoy for taking him on, esp RAJIV. 2 quick points here-
    1. Mention Islamist terror and some throw devdaasi shit, manusmriti and anti Dalit stuff in your face. Sorry, when we discuss Islamist terror, then we do it to discuss solutions. Dont divert, dont distract. Do not bring in Hutu-Tutsi massacre here- some other time.
    2. My dalit brothers and sisters live in some of the most deprived areas of India where education, health and justice are non existent. When the bloody economy improves, when they get employment and when govt offers good governance, only then will their lot improve

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    The lot of DALITS will improve if the SMUG indians spend some from the money used for sailing, in their welfare.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi is not a sikh despite his protestation and even if he is, he is a sikh, he is sick, and has been totally transformed in his thinking, find solace in company of tajinder, provide shoulder to Vinod and lies day in and day out, speaking about 5000 rapes a day of dalits.Not even worth saying Ha. He has constructed a web of deceit, projectting him self as liberal and is thorough communal. As, you have ignored Tajinder, best is to just ignore him, his words carry no weight, as he is speaking ISI language in the garb of liberals.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    you have summed up the feelings and experiences of all bloggers here, except perhaps Vinodji and Mahesh, about this swallow-and-vomit fake Indian Sikh. Perhaps his duties demand that he obey the ISI diktat even if he has to cut and paste “figures” like 5000 rapes a day, from utterly disreputable and credibility-challenged sources like Tehelka and Amnesty.

    You see, for all his “contribution” to his blog, Vinodji has given him the certificate that Ravi is a Sikh, Ravi is not a fundamentalist and Ravi is an Indian. Lest there be any misunderstanding, he has issued the certificate in three languages.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    ALL BLOGERS

    LET THERE BE NO DOUBT IN ANY ONE’s MIND THIS HINDU FUNDO A RSS CHALAK IS STATING THAT AMNESTY INTERNATION IS A DISREPUTABLE AND CREDIBILITY-CHALLENGED ORGANISATION.

    I REST MY CASE.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    For the Wahabi jihadi here is a small sample how much the world “believes” Amnesty International:

    “Criticism of Amnesty International (AI) includes claims of selection bias, ideological/foreign policy bias against either non-Western countries, or Western-supported countries, AI’s policies relating to abortion, and organisational continuity.[1] Governments who have criticised AI include those of Israel, the Democratic Republic of the Congo,[2] the People’s Republic of China,[3] Vietnam,[4] Russia[5] and the United States,[6] who have attacked Amnesty International for what they assert is one-sided reporting or a failure to treat threats to security as a mitigating factor. The actions of these governments — and of other governments critical of Amnesty International — have been the subject of human rights concerns voiced by Amnesty. The Catholic Church has also criticized Amnesty for its stance on abortion…….”

    SOURCE:WIKIPEDIA

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    IF YOU INCLUDE INDIA IN THE LIST OF COUNTRIES WHO QUESTION AMNESTY’S CREDIBILITY, IT WOULD BE ALMOST 90% OF THE WHOLE WORLD!

    Ravi Reply:

    BB.V. Shenoy

    Do you ever read what you post.

    Evidently not.

    The cut and paste you cite is “Criticism”. Criticism from FUNDOs and DENIERS like you.

    No reputable alternative body – having studied the activities of Amnesty International – has pronounced that it lacks credibility.

    Only FUNDOS such as you have and Wikepedia honestly reflects that.

    If I had a choice between believing what Amnesty says or what some of your propaganda papers say.

    I hope you will not be offended if I choose Amnesty International over Samna, etc.

  • shan

    @rajiv , if ravi is talking garbage , then you are talking bollocks. I went to sites you have referred to in your defence. It is not at all clear the number 1765 or something refers to UP or entire india .Also remember , there is population profile to consider , incredible but true is the fact THAT UP HAS THE LOWEST RAPE RATE PER LAKH OF POPULATION. It is true rape is a symptom of URBANISATION.
    THUS DELHI HAS THE CROWN , but apparently ASSAM heads the list , somebody needs to explain.
    YOU SHOULD REMEMBER IN RURAL INDIA, WHEN A THAKUR (MISHRA) commands the DALIT TO SEND HIS WIFE OR DAUGHTER FOR CARNAL SERVICES,it is not recorded as rape . This humiliation is endured by DALITS only perpetrated by the raw sewage of hell caste and all other caste hindus.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    I believe you are scheduled caste your self and a scheduled caste raping a scheduled caste will not be taken into account as rape of a scheduled caste, it will be taken as a rape of a woman. Got any figure to show, how many SC women are raped by SC people and how many by Thakur. Your constant referral to cow belt expose your self to be made fun of on linguistic and several other bengali characterstics. you are not contributing to intelligent debate, for which you have potential. so far, I have not seen any body making fun of you on the basis of you being bengali. Do not tempt others and contribute towards divisiveness of debate. My suggestion.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Pankaj my biopsy forceps looks like hit the right spot, as for cow belt , this term was not invented by me , here you have it an apt description of the cow belt attributes
    Why the `Cow Belt’ is crying over Women’s Bill

    After 14 years of bitter battle of words and delays, the Government on International Woman’s Day on Monday introduced the Women’s Reservation Bill in Parliament sparking an instant uproar in the Rajya Sabha, mainly from the parties in the `Cow Belt’ — Lalu Prasad’s RJD, Mulayam Singh’s SP and Mayawati’s BSP.
    As for me being a SC/ST is same like calling you an WASP as much you would like yourself to be called as such

    [Reply]

  • shan

    This haryana builder is a punjabi , no wonder knows SOHO from the palm of his hand.
    ask him TATE MODERN , hayward gallery , science museum , or the albert and victoria museum othe national history museum , or the RENOIR cinema hall , will DRAW A BLANK EXPRESSION.
    Ask about JOHNY WALKER , his face glows , A TRUE COW BELT , RAJIV , BALWINDER HIS COHORTS

    [Reply]

  • shan

    There are three kind of liesLIES DAMN LIES AND STATISTICS(Disraeli)
    Let the canard or fake research of FAKE rajiv be given a decent burial
    .P. Tops In Atrocities Against Dalits

    By S.R.Darapuri

    10 February, 2011
    Countercurrents.org

    Uttar Pradesh (U.P.) has earned the dubious distinction of being a state where the highest numbers of atrocities have been committed against the Dalits (Scheduled Castes) for the last many years. It is in spite of the fact that this state is being ruled by a Dalit Chief Minister for the fourth time who is going to complete her fourth year in office. U.P. has the largest Dalit population in India numbering about 35.1 million and nearly 21.5% of total state population.

    In a state being ruled by a Dalit Chief Minister the general expectation is that the Dalit population might be getting full protection of law and the number of atrocities against them should be much lower than in other states. But the ground reality is quite different.

    The number of atrocities against Dalits in U.P. has been the highest for the last many years. The state government has recently claimed that crimes against Scheduled Castes/ Scheduled Tribes (SC/ST) have come down in U.P. considerably if compared to other states. The latest crime figures released by National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) under “Crime In India – 2009″ again show that U.P. still tops in crime against Dalits. This picture emerges from the figures of crime given out by NCRB as shown below:

    Incidence of Crime:

    The report states that during the year 2009 the number of crimes against Dalits at national level was 33,594. In this figure the share of Uttar Pradesh was 22.4% followed by Rajasthan (14.8%). Thus U.P. tops in total incidence of crime against Dalits.

    Murder:

    A total of 624 cases were reported in the country during 2009. U.P. has accounted for 37.7% of the total Murder cases reported in the country i.e. 235 out of 624. Here also U.P. is on the top.

    Rape:

    A total of 1, 346 cases of Rape of women belonging to SC/ST were reported in the country during 2009. Madhya Pradesh has reported 321 cases accounting for 23.8% of total cases. U.P. stands just slightly behind with a figure of 317 cases i.e. 23.6% of total Rape cases.

    Kidnapping and Abduction:

    A total of 512 cases of Kidnapping and Abduction of SC/STs were reported during the year 2009 showing an increase of 6.2% over 2008. U.P. alone has reported 254 (49.6%) during 2009 i.e. nearly half of the crime figure at the national level. Here again U.P. is on the top.

    Arson:

    At the national level 195 cases of Arson were reported. Bihar has reported the highest 40 number of cases followed by Rajasthan (39) and U.P.( 38) and Madhya Pradesh (31). Here also U.P. is just a little behind other states.

    Protection Civil Rights Act:

    A total of 168 cases were reported in 2009. U.P. has reported the highest 61 number of cases followed by Andhra Pradesh (39). These two states accounted for 59.5% of total cases reported in the country.

    SC/ST Prevention of Atrocities Act:

    A total of 11,143 cases were reported under this Act in 2009. U.P. has reported 2,554 cases accounting for 22.9% of the total cases in the country followed by Bihar (22.7%).

    Now it becomes imperative to find out the reasons for the high incidence of crime against Dalits in U.P. The first reason is that unfortunately the implementation of the laws relating to registration and investigation of cases relating to atrocities on Dalits are not being implemented properly. The obsession of the present Chief Minister to show a decrease in crime against Dalits is giving leverage to the police for non registration of cases. This leads to burking of atrocity crimes which can be seen from the frequent complaints of non registration of cases appearing in the daily news papers. The crime review based on crime statistics forces the police to keep the crime figures low to put up a crime control picture. The result is that the statistics given out by the police are only a fraction of the actual incidence of crime. Thus the Dalit atrocities remain unaccounted and uncared for making the victims to suffer haplessly.

    The second reason is non application of the SC/ST Prevention of Atrocity Act-1989 to the crimes committed against Dalits. It is well-known that Mayawati had stopped the application of this Act in 1997 under the pretext of checking its misuse. Actually it was a ploy to please her high caste followers who frequently resort to such atrocities. She had issued arbitrarily a government order to this effect. She directed the police to apply this Act in murder and rape cases only and that too after medical examination and preliminary enquiry. All other atrocity cases were ordered to be registered under normal laws i.e. Indian Penal Code and other Acts. Although this order was withdrawn in 2003 but the practice continues unabated. The victims have to approach the court frequently to get their cases registered. Only a few victims are able to take help from the court and majority fails to get this relief. Thus a very large number of atrocity cases go unregistered under this Act. The result is that the culprits go scot free and the victims get no help from police. The non registration of atrocity cases results in double loss to the victims. Firstly the culprits are not punished and secondly Dalits get no monetary compensation as admissible under the rules for the loss suffered by them. Thus Dalits suffer a double jeopardy.

    Thirdly the policy of pleasing the Sarvjan (high castes) followed by Mayawati makes her lenient towards them. It is true that a large number of persons with criminal records have joined Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) and have become MLAs and MPs. At present about a dozen MPs and MLAs of the ruling party (BSP) are involved in rape and abduction cases which mostly concern Dalit women and girls. Police is generally afraid of touching these influential persons. Only such cases get registered which get exposed in media and the government has to yield to public pressure.

    From the above brief discussion it transpires that U.P. tops in atrocities against Dalits notwithstanding the fact that it is being ruled by a Dalit Chief Minister for the fourth term and she is about to complete her fourth year in chair. But the atrocities against Dalits are going on unabated. The out burst of women and Dalits against Mayawati during her recent field visits is an indicator that Maywaati has failed to bring relief to Dalits and common citizens. It may lead to a back lash during the coming Assembly elections in 2012.

    S.R.Darapuri I.P.S.(Retd)

    Email; srdarapuri@yahoo.co.in

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    So Shan -

    How can Rajiv be wrong? The precise statement he made was the share of crime against Dalits in UP is not higher than the Dalit’s population share..ie if the population share of Dalit is 25% in the state, then 25% of murders or rapes are against Dalits; not 50% of the rape or 80% of the rapes. . It may still be the highest in the country; so also crimes against other sectors in that state…

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    UP has highest % of scheduled castes of any state in India. About 21% of population of UP is scheduled castes. In fact, everyone in UP, inclusing many so called upper castes want to be identified as scheduled castes !!

    UP also has the highest population of all states in India.

    So since UP has the higest population of scheduled castes in India, its obvious that it will also likely have the highest number of incidents fo crimes among them.
    You have to be an idiot or a propogandist to find anything abnormal with it.

    Stats , for the year I had provided the link ) show that about 78% of rapes happened among non-dalits and 21-22% among dalits in UP almost in same proportion to their population percentage.

    Conclusion : incidense of rape is caste neutral in UP and anyone arguing otherwise is either an idiot or a castist bigot.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,

    you are less than accurate in saying that many upper castes want to be identified as Dalits/SCs.

    All over India, the dalits who left the Hindu fold due to forcible conversion or due to the casteist oppression by the upper castes and became Muslims and Christians, still want to be identified as Dalits! In fact, there are demands for reservation on the basis of their pre-conversion status, which is being considered by state governments all over the country and also ther central government.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    A brainless dole seeker in downtown harlem will ignore that MAJORITY OF RAPE AND CRIME AGAINST SC/ST goes unreported , they are too frightened or knowing the apathy of the police ,they drown their sorrow in tears , while the harlem lodger is enjoying p o r n in his living room.
    Also SC/ST’sknow about RANVIR SENA and the THUGS CALLED THAKURS

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Well, I have totally exposed Ravi’s lies.

    If Shan or sanyone wants to join in defense of those lies, they are welcome and will be equally exposed.
    stats show, incidense of rape is caste-neutral in UP. By that I mean, the ratio of rapes among dalits and non-dalits is in same proportion to the ratio of their population. My previous posts give all the links necessary.

    @Shan,
    Have you being kicked under the belt by a cow that you keep muttering cow-belt in every post ?
    Ask Dr Mishra ( I man a real doctor ) , he may have a cure for you.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,

    the question to be asked of Shaan Nirad Babu is NOT whether, but why he went behind the cow.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajiv, No I feel disgusted by the cow brainers in India including you ,so cow belt is a metaphor for all those hunbug or scumbag

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    India, like all other countries, has its own or it-centric problems/opportunities (language, religion, caste etc) and also faces the general world-wide problems (western recession, chinese flooding of markets etc) .

    Those who say India has Devdasi system, Sati system, brutal suppression of Dalits, Brahmin control etc are the people who want the staus quo of 100 years ago. Because they live in a world denying India and Indian vision constantly. Mr Kurien indicated that Mrs Subbalakshmi, the revered Carnatic music singer, the singer of Meea Bhajans, nightingdale of india, the Bharat Ratna recipient was a Devdasi girl. She was an extremely beautiful person; looks like the dealers somehow missed her.

    It is quite interesting that secularist/s/Muslims/Muslim sympathisers in this blog always bring up the issue of Dalits whenever anyone points to a real or perceived problem with the Muslim community in general or the Muslim community of India in particular. But they do not mention one thing – - No Dalit, whatever abuse he suffers, commits terrorist attacks, suicide bombings. Compare that to the subset of the pampered, rich Kerala Muslims – they go on a destruction mission – Kashmir, Coimbatore, Bangalore (with training in Pakistan). And worse, it ebcomes “intolerance” when somebody brings this up. It becomes alarmist!

    India cannot afford to waste any resources – Dalit , Muslim, Christian, Budhist, High end Hindus, low end Hindus. India is not the pre-Madela South Africa. India is not israel who officially considers many of its citizens as second class citizens. Caste issue fades away with urbanization; with two software engineers getting married than a Brahmin software guy marrying a Brahmin software girl. Education and economics transform old equations, create new horizons. The key for India’s societal change will be in eonomic development and educatioanl achivements. That should be the focus of the govt and community if we want to alleviate the scrouge of caste/religious intolerance.

    But do not discount the Pakistani propaganda even in that future – they will still talk about Devdasi, Manusmruthi, Sathi, 5000 Dalits being raped in a night, scores of Dalits being killed in a day, and thousands of devdasi girls being prepped for prostitution.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @shoeb k ,what you tend to ignore SOCIAL TRANSFORMATION cannot be brought about by SOFTWARE,also URBANISATION WONT DROP FROM THE SKY, INDIANS WILL HAVE TO PULL TOGETHER, the operative word is TOGETHER , which is an oxymoron and an insult to the daily experiences of a dalit

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Shoeb

    The ISI nutures fond hopes that the Dalits would start a violent movement against Hindus and destroy the Indian state, Nothing of that sort will happen,

    Instead destruction of caste barriers will happen.

    That is why Ravi should stop bothering about imaginaery rapes happening in India, as he is a victim of ISI propoganda. Instead he should bother about saving the honour of women in the call girl and porno industries of Europe.

    Is that not exploitation?? Ravi can start from England itself. He should go on hunger strike till death outside the massage parlours advertised in papers or in front of the houses of call girls. Maybe also outside video parloirs which sell porno films.

    Ravi should now put a placard around his neck saying that, ” I , Ravi am going on hunger strike till death to save English and European women from rape fro money…”

    I

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    If he so much as mentions his fake name, his entire agitation for the “upliftment” of the prostitutes, and his hunger strike will go up in smoke, because unlike Vinod Sharma, who believes his “disclaimers”, the MI6 or Scotland Yard are not so gullible. He is very likely to end up on the island of Gauntanamo!

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    ~~ :D :D ~~ MORE AVENUES FOR RAVI TO SAVE WOMEN FROM RAPE ~~ :D :D ~~

    I will also advise Ravi to buy a 1000 Tent style burqas and wait ouside nude Spanish and French beaches where women are being raped by the eyes of the visitors :D

    He should put up a placard and sing

    “I am ravi…
    I see rape here and rape there
    Rapes and rapes happening everywhere

    But never one in Pakistan
    becasue that is my janamsthan

    NOt even one,
    when Gilani presses a boob here
    And a boob there… :D

    For no rapes take place in Pakistan, anywhere :D :D

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I am Vijay and I am a travelling Hindu
    I close my mind as I visit foreign lands
    Eyes open and zip shut I walk the red districts too

    With rose tinted glasses, my society I view
    I see we are better than Pakistan
    I sit down and eat my spiced goat stew

    Hindu society is perfect through and through
    I cease to respect those who criticise it
    I light incense stick, at the idol of Vishnu

    No need to reform, I know what I cling to
    So long as Muslims are loosing the race
    Dalit can clean my sh*t, do I need a tissue?

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, here is one for you:

    My name is (fake) Ravi
    My sarcasm is heavy
    I jump to the defence of Muslims
    by parroting cliche’s on dalits.
    I jump to the defence of fellow jihadi
    I have respect only for men in khadi
    jihad is my creed
    kill this blog I will with speed

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    amen :D

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    worth repeating-
    My dalit brothers and sisters live in some of the most deprived areas of India where education, health and justice are non existent. When the bloody economy improves, when they get employment and when govt offers good governance, only then will their lot improve

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Sheob, well said ‘ But do not discount the Pakistani propaganda even in that future – they will still talk about Devdasi, Manusmruthi, Sathi, 5000 Dalits being raped in a night, scores of Dalits being killed in a day, and thousands of devdasi girls being prepped for prostitution ‘
    RAVI, buddy you listening ?

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    SHAN, you started your post with a lot of fanfare as usual, claiming only you can see the light and then proceeded to announce that RAJIV was speaking trash. I have carefully re read all the posts above, and RAJIV has actually spoken a lot of sense.
    Pl do read other’s posts more carefully in future.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Lets do some surgery on the cowbeltwallahs and amputate the gangrenous prejudiced SOUL
    First few statistisc from NATIONALCRIME STATISTISTICS BUREAU
    Crime against SC/ST ,2009 data ,UP7522,MP3040,GUJRAT1182, RAJASTHAN 4895, ANDHRAPRADESH3040,MAHARASHTRA1096,KARNATAKA 2174,TAMILNADU 1312 KERALA 467

    Now a stastistics supplied by Nirad Choudhari from the other world through NCRB

    WEST BENGAL 21
    As expected knowing the preference of the tourist spots of london of a certain haryana builder
    Delhi accounts for 23.5%of Rape Cases 38.9%kidnapping and abduction 15.2%dowry deaths 14.1 of Molestation of all CASES AMONGST 36 CITIES OF INDIA

    Some more more to make your weekend joyfull , mishraji may drown himself in red wine and then go sailing in shark infested waters
    We then traveled to Andhra Pradesh, a large state in south India, to work with a Dalit 3 rights NGO called SAKSHI Human Rights Watch A.P. With the help of an agricultural union, we interviewed numerous victims of atrocities and several justices, government officials and activists in Hyderabad and surrounding rural districts (Rangareddy, Mahbubnagar and Nalgonda). Women shared horrific stories with us, of being raped, beaten, tortured, or forced into prostitution, as well as the more ‘mundane’ stories of humiliation at the hands of people belonging to higher castes. We were overwhelmed by the discrimination and disadvantages they face on so many dimensions: lack of education, economic/employment disadvantages, social disempowerment, political invisibility and sexual oppression
    SOME MORE
    For me the most devastating outgrowth of untouchability we learned about is a system of institutionalized prostitution called jogini. It is officially banned, although not legally defined as an ‘atrocity’ punishable under the SC/ST POA Act. To briefly explain jogini, a scheduled caste family dedicates its young daughter to a village goddess, and when the girl reaches puberty she becomes an available sexual partner for all men in the village. The jogin’s sexual partners are to become her patrons – as long as they want to be – and she never marries. These patrons are also to care for her parent(s), an expectation that can motivate a desperately poor single parent with only one daughter to dedicate the girl to this life. The jogins we talked to, however, were never well taken care of, particularly as their youth waned and they were no longer desirable sexual partners. They often had several children (with different fathers) for whom they could not properly care. Joginis we talked to had turned to begging for their daily survival.

    These women’s stories exposed a system that falsely convinces poor, caste-oppressed families that they can participate in religious life along with upper castes, interact with them and be taken care of economically. In fact, they are being exploited and their daughters robbed of their futures, freedom to marry, self-determination and control over their own bodies. A common expression quoted to describe the hypocrisy in this system is “untouchable by day, but touchable at night.
    THE ABOVE LINES ARE NOT FROM A DALIT WEBSITE BUT THE BRAHMINS FAVOURITE AND HALLOWED INSTITUTION PRINCETON UNIVERSITY
    By sharon barnhardt http://www.princeton.edu/gpn/perspectives/barnhardt-fieldnotes/ -

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Dr Mishra

    I am listening.

    Now it is your turn to listen.

    1. I brought the Dalit issue in this blog. My reasoning – which I have stated and you have hinted at, but have not acceoted, in Particular Vijay ignored – is stated here this time in caps so that there is less chance of you missing it.

    Like most societies – INDIAN SOCIETY SUFFERS FROM SEVERAL ISSUES. WHICH ISSUE ONE CHOOSES TO FOCUS ON, REFLECTS ONES OWN PREDELICTIONS. YOU CHOSE ISLAMIC ISSUE, BECAUSE YOU ARE COMMUNAL.

    To suggest that Islamic issue is not the only issue, I brought in other ills Indian society suffers. Over the last year or so, they have been, Child Marriage in Rajasthan, CONTEMORARY Devdasi’s in Andhra and in Karnatka, Female Foeticide in Punjab, Haryana, and Delhi.

    In doing so I have placed myself firmly in All India Camp and not HINDU CAMP, that seems to be your comfort zone.

    2. May – in particular Rajiv – is smug under this completely erroneous and smug conclusion that he has exposed my LIES. Which of what I have said is a lie.

    My statement that 5000 dalit girls will be raped in a day, etc etc. was not intended to be taken as a STATISTICAL reportage. More of an indication of Dali Rape as an issue. In the process of trying to blow the figure of 5000 out of the water he fully confirmed the very point he thought he was exposing me of. Thank you Rajiv, you did exactly expected of you.

    So Dr Mishra, I listened. I wonder if you have. Historical evidence would suggest, not really.

    Dalit Rapes is obviously an issue, what ever its real proportion, just search OutlookIndia.com, and count the number of results that come up.

    So Dr Mishra, no one denies that Islamic Terrorism is an issue. But that is not the only issue Indian Society is facing. The reason you focus on this one issue to the exclusion of other issues, tells me more about you than it does of contemporary affairs.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    This rajiv geezer is TEJENDER of the hindu society, and there are his sidekicks from haryana , and the smug panditji is always there SMUG B. Rather than openly unreservedly admit and feel ashamed these
    raectionary yankee dole seekers ,try to air brush it . Then when did you last hear a satyajit ray from haryana or punjab and when did you hear last about a film called SADGATI made by Ray starring ompuri and Mohan agashe.
    HINDUS WOULD HAVE BEEN NO DIFFERENT TO SALAFIS , but for BENGAL RENAISSANCE and YOUNG BENGAL,left to mishraji and his sidekicks of these blog India would have been colonised for another 1000 yrs.
    Just reflect on protestant society
    A guy from England went to GHANA and chained himself to tree for days AS A PENANCE for his family FOUR GENERATION AGO was a big slave trader in bristol
    or take this
    Lord Mcpherson after concluding the enquiry into the murder og black teenager STEPHEN LAWRENCE DECLARED UNEQUIVOCALLY “BRITAIN IS A RACIST COUNTRY”
    No wonder even karl marx was smitten and napolean had made plans to retire in England and live among the gentry.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you seem to have unbounded capacity to post disjointed, incoherent rants, about some Stephen Larence or Ghana or Karl Marx. At least try to rescue your pal Ravi from his Dalit outpourings.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    I am still recovering from my spinal surgery so it hurts to laugh. But I just could not help it when I read these chutkuley-

    “”"B.V.SHENOY Reply: the question to be asked of Shaan Nirad Babu is NOT whether, but why he went behind the cow”"”

    “”"rajiv says: @Shan,
    Have you being kicked under the belt by a cow that you keep muttering cow-belt in every post ?”"”
    ———————-
    hehe

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    what is also hilarious is the TOTAL ISOLATION of shan. A few months ago, he and Ravi used to exchange the choiciest of abuses and gaalis, today SHAN NIRAD IS PARESHAN – always sucking upto Ravi for some lonely comfort

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @balls dimwit bhondhu ,You may have recovered from the pain of your back BUT YOU ARE A PAIN IN THE A R S E

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    ravi bhai, when the topic is Dalits, or the blogger discussees Dalits, then bring in those dalit stats. Do not be so hyper sensitive when anyone lambasts Islamist terror and shout dalit rape.

    THE ONLY PPL WHO GET ABUSIVE OR HYPERSENSITIVE WHEN SOCIETY SLAMS MUSLIM TERRORISTS ARE- PAKISTANIS, OR INDIAN MUSLIMS OF THE BITTER 1 % KIND WHO HATE INDIA, HIDUS-SIKHS ETC

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    यारब ना वो समझे हेँ, ना समझे गे मेरी बात

    दे और दिल उन्को, जो ना दें मुझ को जुबां और

    [Reply]

  • shan

    some more from a DALIT website http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/cms/narnaware.pd

    According to the National Commission of Human rights of India, more
    than 62,000 human rights violations are recorded annually. On average, two Dalits
    are assaulted every hour, three Dalit women and children are raped, two Dalits are
    murdered, and at least two Dalits are tortured or burned every day (Narula;
    National Commision n.pag). Due to space, it is not possible to describe an
    individual human rights abuse. Following are some of the most inhuman “Human
    Right Violations” that took place in recent time in India. For instance, recently, five
    Dalits in the Northern district of India, Haryana, were lynched by a mob of 4,000
    Hindus on the allegation that they skinned the cow (according to Hinduism, the
    cow is considered holy), as these victims denied a bribe to police. In another
    incident, a four-month pregnant Dalit women from Tamilnadu district (Southern
    part of India), was beaten by upper caste Hindus from the same village. She was
    stripped naked and paraded in front of the village as well as her family members.
    Later, police beat her in jail, which resulted in her miscarriage (Ambedkar,
    Annihilation).
    Less than 3.5% culprits are prosecuted for such crimes, and out of 10
    cases of atrocities against Dalits, only one is prosecuted. The problem is not the
    law; implementation is a total failure because the less than 15% high caste Hindus
    who control 85% of the wealth, power, justice system, police and 100% of the
    media. Hence, the culprits go unpunished (National Commission n.pag).

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    AGAIN shan CONTINUES WITH HIS IDIOCY- “”"A guy from England went to GHANA and chained himself to tree for days AS A PENANCE for his family FOUR GENERATION AGO “”"

    Moron, such silly wishy washy gestures only irritate the Africans and only impress Nirad type ar se lickers like you. When the brits had to loot, they looted big time. SHAN, your intellectual non capacity is really getting on my nerves. Do you have to blog unnecessarily

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    cant really believe that SHAN is a doctor, falls for this cra p gimmick. Why does he worship white ppl so much, ppl who caused a 3 million death famine in his bengal

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    And your biradri is SUCKING UPTO THE WHITES BIG TIME , FLOODING WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, remember chanel4 programme
    lets kick your back oouch
    shan Reply:
    July 14th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    @Balls scratcher Bhondhu, did you watch last weeks Dispatches in Chanel4. It showed how folks EXCLUSIVELY FROM YOUR BIRADRI land from the back of a lorry and THEN LIVE LIKE RATS IN GARDEN SHEDS IN SOUTHALL , yet have to pay the landlords of your biradri 100 pounds per months.
    I WAS APALLED EVERYTIME JOHN SNOW KEEP SAYING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM INDIA , should have said illegal sikh immigrants from punjab
    http://xml.channel4.com.dl1.ipercast.net/dispatches.rss

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Hahah Ravi

    You are like Fox news. Bring a sensational allegation, substatntiate with an old or diff picture or statistics to make it look right, and then after few days statte that they “misspoke/misreported” in the daytime news that nobody listens to.

    You quoted five thousand rapes etc along with other crdible statistics, and now you are saying it was just an indicative figurative speech, not to be taken literally. If tht was the purpose you could have simply stated “every day many Dalit girls are raped”

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Yet some more to expose the TRUE CHARACTER of lies peddling geezer from yankee dole land
    A three-year study of 500 Dalit women’s experiences of violence across four Indian states shows that the majority of Dalit women report having faced one or more incidents of verbal abuse (62.4%), physical assault (54.8%), sexual harassment and assault (46.8%), domestic violence (43.0%) and rape (23.2%).

    Verbal abuse included regular derogatory use of caste names and caste epithets possibly amounting to ‘hate speech’, as well as sexually explicit insults, gendered epithets and threats(1).

    Most women do not report violence and the study shows that only 1% of the cases that are actually filed end in convictions.

    The 2009 report of the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women contains an overwhelming number of accounts of Dalit women in India being raped and beaten by higher castes in the course of their daily lives, such as while working in the field, going to the market or doing domestic work.

    In UK the most important statistics is BRITISH CRIME SURVEY , because many people may not report crime .Thus a surveyis undertaken and statistical extrapolation is done.
    Similarly according to survey 23.2 DALIT women said they had endured rape.
    POPULATION OF DALITS IN INDIA 80 MILLION , POPULATION OF INDIA 1.1 BILLION , THUS AROUND 13.7 PERCENT

    now dalit molesters DO YOUR SUMS

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shan-
    80MM out of 1.1 Bill is 7%.

    X% are verbally abused…hoho/.. nobody else?

    Obviously rape is a serious issue, and it hould be prosecuted. If not, it i ue to the nexus of politics, police, corruption.

    But by generalizing “In India..” it loses the real issue/impact. Obviously, an organized “punishment” type attack happens only in certain areas were the landholding pattern is still feudal, where landlords havetracts of land andcemployees working for them for generations. Interior Andhra Pradesh, UP, Bihar fit this. Many socal isues are localised or regional; the only wy to solve it is to focus on that area/region; the effort and impact gets diluted when one makes it an all-India problem.

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    Shn – you yourself have put it aptly in your prior entry –whenever “John Snow talks about llgal immigarnts from India”…… he should say ” punjabi sikh illegal imigrants” ..theDalit rape issue is simlar– -

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @S Singh,THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE IS TO FIRST ADMIT , FEEL ASHAMED ,APOLOGISE AND THEN DRIVEN BY THE PANGS OF GUILT TAKE ACTIVE MEASURES , like severe punishment and social boycott, having seen the response of some bloggers wouldn’t be bad to deny entree to these yankee dole seekers.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    S Singh/Shan

    Mr Singh brought up a good point. The nature of poblems, where/how is the best solution etc.

    There are only two “all India” problems from my limited perspective, that India should forcefully deal with at a “central”/national level:

    - Islamic terrorism (Yes, Islamic terrorism)
    - Corruption

    All others are state/regional/local problems that should be dealt at state level with standards and progress levels set; with central money blocked for budget processes if the issues are not resolved/progress not made..

    - Dalit/oppresed section asault etc
    - Female infanticide
    (in Southern states one will get the answer “what” on these two; replenishment level of girls over boys at healthy rate, with Kerala having 1090 women/1000 men; closely followed by Tamil Nadu; and diminishing as one traverse to the north; with Haryana being 800 women/1000 men)
    - child marriage (does it even exist any more?)
    - devdasi (?????)

    The states wll have to mend itself when the central money is denied.. State politicians then will have to focus on economic development, education improvent etc that will benefit hopefully all in the state. Hopefully, there will be few more Gujrats (dv perspective) created under this scenario.

  • Ravi

    Vijay

    I am Vijay and I am a travelling Hindu
    I close my mind as I visit foreign lands
    Eyes open and zip shut I walk the red districts too

    With rose tinted glasses, my society I view
    I see we are better than Pakistan
    I sit down and eat my spiced goat stew

    Hindu society is perfect through and through
    I cease to respect those who criticise it
    I light incense stick at the idol of Vishnu

    No need to reform, I know what I cling to
    So long as Muslims are loosing the race
    Dalit can clean my sh*t, do I need a tissue?

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    yr prose is far better than yr poetry, which is terrible. like Anu Malik’s

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi/Vijay

    Vijay said we have problems,
    We accept and we improve;
    But you and your **** ISIs
    Say Islam pure and pristine
    Muslims dont have no issues

    Vij never said we are perfct
    He always said we need reform
    And we are working everyday

    A man who works hard and gives job
    No time for secular sh– or Ghana
    Smple man, simple ideas
    But simple things do work
    Oh he doesnt know those western stuff

    Vij says terrorists
    You say Devdasi
    For tjht is what pasha taught u
    In t hallod halls f Abbotsbad

    Muslim terrorism screwed up the world
    But foryou it is devdasi
    And the book of 1939
    by a crazy Golvalker

    H brings up Mumbai attack
    But for you it is always “but”
    But whatabout devdasis
    And our Dalit buddies
    But what about those 5000 rapes
    And the scores of Dalits kiled every day

    He brings up ISI attacks
    But for you, always “buts”
    Bur what about Sati
    And those untouchables
    And all those Barhmins running the world

    He says congress steals and appeases
    But you say what about all those “but’
    But what about Gujrat
    But whatabout Modi
    And the 800 Muslims who got killd
    Gothra diffent, and who cares about the 200 hindus
    That is only a number

    You are stuck in your butt
    Head is not where it should be for some of us
    Stuck in but n butt
    But that is what happens to a man with “but”

    Pasha should have taught you well
    But u know their sylabus is stale
    Ad u r stuck with but

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Raju, great poetry!

    from a small time poet, to a budding shayar, lal salaam!!

    This will constipate the thought processes of fake Ravi, the wahabi.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Raju, herte is one for you too:

    dalits get murdered every day
    and five thousand daily rapes
    if you don’t believe Ravi, so say,
    for, dalit.com has all the tapes.

    where is Islamic terror?
    26/11 or 13/7, what are these dates?
    It is all RSS-created horror
    Ravi knows only delicious Arabian dates

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    Thank you
    for putting it in words..
    which I wanted to ! :D

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    L Mirza, bhaut bhaut shukriya. In my irritation and frustration, I do not write as well and leave it to Shoeb , Mishraji and you to cut out the RAVI- SHAN **** with a brilliant concise summary as you have.

    Intelligent people like you and Mishraji always bang on about unglamorous topics like population control, corruption etc as the MAJOR problems of India.

    Once more this ravi-believe-me-I-am-sikh talks harijan devdaasi cr ap , or SHAN idiot talks about a white man apologising to Ghana for slavery- AND I WILL BE HOWLING AT THE MOON IN FRUSTRATION

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    I am a sikh who is flooding UK with illegal immigrants from punjab , with fake marriage , fake student , fake marriage cermony to attend ,I AM FAKE and soon will be fr ucked

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @LMirza and ShoebK, Lets take this business of islamic terrorism by the scruff of its neck and expose it for what it is worth.
    Do you guys really beleive that all the wrongs are done by muslims , if so then sorry both of you are simply ignorant and in denial..The oil has been a curse to the muslims . Do you know Iraq was a full fletched DEMOCRACY, circa 1930 , but because of its OIL find , british formented trouble , installed a puppet king,
    this lead to oppresion , BATH party , REST YOU KNOW It well.
    Next is iran ANOTHER PUPPET REZA PAHLAVI, one 100%kosher liberal iranian doctor told me during Shah’s time PEOPLE USED TO FLY INTO LONDON , WATCH MANCHESTER UNITED PLAY AND THEN RETURN NEXT DAY.Khomeini didn’t drop from the sky.
    There is no denying the injustices to the palestanians STILL GOING ON.
    But there is denying there is PROBLEM WITH ISLAM
    But as L Mirza , you have pointed out the main reason being lack of literature in muslim society(SAME IN COW BELT). Literature is not only DEBDAS , but discussion , dissection.
    When I grew up as a child I beleived in all the things TOGADIA and SINGHAL would like you to beleive.
    Then I was fortunate being a bengali , I was exposed to tomes of literature.
    I read Mahabharata , the epic , contains fair bit that can be described as SOFT PORN
    I read Dashrath most likely was impotent , thus he needed yajna so that his wife become pregnant , and Ram had blue eyes , therefore there is a possibility his genes may have come from one of the sadhus performing the yajna.
    Also I was lucky to read vivekananda , who exhorted boys not to waste time in reading scriptures but to play football as it will good for health and mind. And lastly PLEASE type YOUNG BENGAL in wikipedia
    you will get all the answers.
    ISLAM NEEDS A SIMILAR MOVEMENT which I read in Homa Koutzian’s book THE PERSIANS EXISTED IN CIRCA 990AD. According to this school KORAN IS NOT DIVINE FOR YOU CANNOT HAVE TWO DIVINITY. It is man made , thus subject to rigorous intellectual dissection.
    In one word Muslims need a MARTIN LUTHER OR VIVEKANANDA .

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan,
    First and foremost we need start treating Indian Muslims as Indian citizens who , incidentally, subscribe to Islam as religion. Not Doling out pretentious advice on what Muslims ought to do and what they need not would help as well.
    This will see the the stereotyped communal identities relegated forever.
    Oh , and btw, post this we will still discover how social feudalism spans across the religions in our land. :-)
    - Mahesh.
    p.s.: Watched Ijaazat for the Nth time yesterday evening. Nothing truly compares the combination of Ijaazat and Whisky while it drizzles outside the window.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    “This will see the the stereotyped communal identities relegated forever.”
    To be read as :
    “This will see the the stereotyped communal identities relegated to personal domain forever”.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Mahesh

    Indin Muslims are Indians , Indian Christians are Indians, Indian Hindus are Indians

    Muslim situation, for most part, is a Muslim created situation, not one perpetuated on them.
    “We are differnt, we want to be exclusive, we want special treatment, our religion in dange..ad nauseum”…… You mix those demands with Congress… and that is what we have..

    Christians, Sikhs, Budhists etc do not have that syndrome…they excel, educate, make money, live happily without somebody to give, give, give or lead, lead , lead….They have to look in themselves for a change; it is a constant wait for them, whether in India or Pakistan or middleeast …And this permanent wait magnifies differences, create self loathing, attributes blame to others….

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Mahesh — so called Muslim leaders (and secualr leaders) will not let it “relegated to the personal domain” unlike for others…

    It will be great if relegatd to personal domain– it “aint” going to happen.. Any suggestions?

    shan Reply:

    @mahesh , are you referring to the film starring Rekha and nasiruddin shah called Izazaat . This was gulzar’s remake of bengali film called jotugriha , (the house in flames) directed by Tapan Sinha. yes it was a remarkable film. However have you seen , THE PASSENGER,by Antonioni ,starring jack Nicholson , simply incredible.Another one is SLEUTH starring LAWRENCE OLIVIER and MICHAEL CAINE , just two characters. Olivier simply blows you away.
    The film I really want to discuss is GROUNDHOG DAY. have you watched it ,if you have ,come back to me what you made about the message of the film , regards Shan

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Ravi

    You are sadly out of touch
    with the realities as such…

    A million mutines have happned here
    but you live in a mental nowhere

    Caste is dyeing and dead
    But you can’t get the idea out of your head…

    by repeating casteist and communal cliches
    you are only revealing your own mental rashes and itches

    But then it seems

    that your mannat
    is to joing the evil smiling cobra-gen Zia in jannat :D :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    let us all pray for ravi’s mannat to fructify.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Editorial from International Herald Tribune

    More Horrors in MumbaiPublished: July 14, 2011

    India’s government showed extraordinary restraint after Pakistani terrorists killed more than 160 people in Mumbai in 2008. The fear ever since then has been that another attack could spark a war between India and Pakistan, rivals with nuclear weapons.

    On Wednesday, Mumbai suffered three more bomb blasts in which 17 people died. Many crucial facts, including the identities of the killers, are not yet known. Indian citizens deserve answers to their many legitimate questions. So far, Indian officials seem to be reacting in a measured and responsible way.

    Pakistani leaders condemned the bombings. But words are cheap. They need to work with their Indian counterparts to find whoever is responsible. If Pakistanis were behind this latest horror, Islamabad must ensure that they are brought to justice this time.

    Pakistani officials previously acknowledged that the 2008 attacks were partly planned on their soil by Pakistani extremists. Instead of cooperating with India’s investigation, they insisted on handling the case themselves. Pakistan has four suspects in custody, but the trial is moving too slowly to be considered credible. Pakistani courts are notorious for acquitting most terrorism suspects.

    By Thursday, no group had claimed responsibility for the latest attack. And with so much riding on it, Indian officials were right to not jump to conclusions. “We are not pointing a finger at this stage,” said Palaniappan Chidambaram, India’s home minister. A senior American law enforcement official said early signs suggested the culprits could well be India-based militants.

    After 2008, relations between India and Pakistan plunged into a dangerous two-year freeze. The countries only recently revived a dialogue; we are encouraged that Indian officials say they plan to proceed with talks set for later this month. President Obama has offered American investigative help to India. He and his advisers also need to be having blunt conversations with Pakistan about the cost of any more foot-dragging.

    Indians are angry and asking why their government did not ensure their safety. Indian officials say they have made significant security reforms but it may never be possible to stop all terrorist attacks. That is true, but New Delhi still must learn from this experience and keep trying to perfect its intelligence and counterterrorism efforts.

    After the 2008 attacks, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh warned that his country would retaliate if hit again. We applaud his continued restraint and urge both sides to think hard about the horrifying cost of a war.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Good editorial.

    There is one side of me which prays that this be not caused by Muslims, whether internal or external. For that will be too much for Mumbaikers to take; and will unleash an orgy of violence against Muslims.. whether justified or not..and our impotent government, having allowed an attack, will manage any riots equally impotently resulting another hundreds of untold deaths..

    And Chidambaram and MMS and Maharashtra CM and all other political leaders will say “Mumbaikers are resourceful, resilient; they will dust off and rise “

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ raju

    Sadly the present government is too weak and immoral to take on terror. The only purpose it has is to get an incompetent Rahul on to the PM’s chair. Most decisions it takes has to be viewed in this light.

    For this it has also some co-opted media people, who in my view become pimps in case they tell lies to divert attention away from terrorists and the corruption the UPA represents.

    Today Digvijay played his old game of saying that this could be RSS !! :D :D

    Soon some otherr Congress pimps will start saying this.

    people like Ravi would believe this and keep sayign HIndu Fundos in a cliche ridden manner.

    While people like Gilani, Headley, Masood Azhar will laugh at the body count and the pimps like Digvijay who battle for them…

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    :)

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Is the smile becasue you are happy that Masood Azhar, Hafeez Saeed, Kiyani and Lakhvi would be happy that indians have been killed in a bomb blast ?

    Or because news is coming in that Ilyas Kashmiri is still alive?

    :( :( :(

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    Will it matter if I told u.

    I do not think so.

    Regards

    Ravi

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Vijay

    Did Diggie say it could be RSS or Muslim Extremits or disd he just stop at RSS… If so, it is time he is put in jail!

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Raju

    The basic statement was golmaal and a typical Congress pimp’s double speak :D

    On the first day Digvinahs says “Look Look … We are better than Pakistan….where bomb blasts take place everyday…”

    Eaju, now you and me know that Digvinash wants us to travel the Pakistan way becasue whenver there is a bomb blasts, his concerns are how to make this a vote bank so that Rahul gets the chair and he (Digvinash) gets the puppet strings.

    Today he in a Congress pimp style he said that ” An RSS hand cannot be ruled out… ”

    Basically he is itching to shout out, ”

    Modi Modi rape rape..
    Musalman ko kewal Congress rakhe ga safe…

    But I hope Muslims are smart enough to know
    Congress dallas like Digvijay, seeds of hatred do sow…

    The Indian Muslims destiny lies with .India
    with Sikhs, Christans and Hindu

    And not in the ghetto
    Digvijay and Rahul want to push them into… :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    your poetry is becoming better and better each day.

    I greatly appreciate the fervour with which you have been carrying on the campaign against the Don Quixote-Sancho Panza team of the two congress general secretaries. While we treat them as contemptible jokers, very soon the congressmen too (and that include some editors of chamcha newspapers) may find the team extremely embarrassing and increasingly indefensible.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I must thank this blog and the blogmates for my atempts at poetry, something which I had never done before.

    But int he end if this hits Sancho and Don somewhere, the atempts would be worth the pleasure I get :D

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    You have a set template for all your prose/essay/poetry !

    The last paragraph/stanza always reserved for Rahul and Digvijay !

    I am sure if you write a poetry on monsoon, Rahul and Digvijay would find their place in the last stanza !!!

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    They would be having monsoon fun together… bheegein bheegin raatein… and all that :D

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    No short-cuts please.

    On public demand, a real captivating poem on monsoon.

  • shan

    A little sample of protestant societies
    Last week, Andrew Hawkins, a descendant of Sir John Hawkins — the slaving pioneer — travelled to Gambia, a West African country from where thousands of Africans had been kidnapped and sold into slavery. He went, self-bound in chains, along with other chained white Englishmen and made a symbolic apology on behalf of his family to the people of Gambia. He was received by the vice-president of Gambia, Isaton Njie Saidy, and 25,000 other ordinary Gambians.

    Here in Hawkins’ words is what happened next: “I apologised on behalf of my family. I apologised for the adults and children taken.Then there was a long pause and we really didn’t know what to expect — it was very nerve-wracking. They could have said ‘We don’t accept your apology, go away’, and we were ready for that — it would have been understandable. But the vice-president came forward and accepted the apology very graciously. She offered her forgiveness and then came forward and took the chains off. That was entirely impromptu and very moving.

    There is not a hell in a cat’s chance similar REMORSE will be forthcoming from cowbeltwallahs

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    I am of the opinion that such gestures are an important element of reconciliation and closure.

    Well done Mr hawkins

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan,

    you are giving increasing evidence of your obsession with Africa, because you have a pygmy brain which is wandering, waffling and mostly goes haywire.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Shenoy you do not like Africans because they are black , you would prefer like bollywood to see the dancing girls all WHITE at the expense of indian girls.You are a ghoos khor ex bank manager , not to be expected any better from you

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    That’s the best you could come up to comment on Shan’s posting !

    I always thought you would be better than that.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    My feeling is this recent bomb blast is HOME GROWN . Definitely guided by the LeT in Pakistan. But I get the feeling there has been a silent overhaul of the past thinking in pak polity and army. It is just possible they may not be directly involved .They have come to realise INDIA IS NOT THEIR ENEMY and the humiliation post osama by USA have made them look long and hard. The Locale Zaveri Bazar does make me think , is it a throwback to gujrat riot , or was it chosen just because it is congested.
    It is pathetic Indian intelligence agencies CANNOT SOLVE ONE SINGLE CASE .
    Though the haryana builder would pompously declare india to be at par with west . Ever heard of the word JOKERS.
    The pakistani terrorist groups have a vested interest in formenting trouble in INDIA, TO PUT PAKISTAN IN A SPOT. Also KASHMIR IS TOO QUIET FOR THEIR LIKING,and many are eliminited in “encounter”.
    Unless they can trace its origin , it will recur again . Only by tracing its origin CAN THE HUB BE DISINFECTED

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    I echo Kurien’s prayer and concern. I hope it is not Muslims; because I too have this fear that a Muslim involvement will be disastrous at this time, leading to riots all over — Another Muslim or Pakistani abetted attack after 11/26 will not be taken lightly by the Indian populace/and by a large segments of the majority community.. In fact the anger will also be directed at apologists like Digvijay .

    So, I hope it is not muslims from a”peace” perspective – lets wait and see…Until then let us not pass any judgment one way or other

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    L Mirza

    Do you not think – irrespectivly of who did it – igniting a violent reaction was the prinicipal motive behind this atrocity.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    Motives, of course, will be different for different groups.

    I do not see any “larger” motive if If the culprits are RSS people, as Digvijay says (per Vijay). If major riots break up and if it is found the trigger was RSS bombing, I do not see how RSS will ever come out of this fiasco. And thus, RSS becomes the least likely perpetartor. Or, they are bigger fools if they did this.

    You are right that igniting violent reaction is the objective of any other suspect – be it Indian muslim group, or foreign Muslim group, or internal profit/leverage violence caused insecurities motive people.

    Ravi Reply:

    L Mirza

    Talks between India and Pakistan started a few days ago.

    There are elements, both sides of the border, who wish to suspend these talks.

    The blasts and an expected backlash, would succeed in precipitating suspensions of these talks.

    Take your pick as to who wants to torpedo these talks.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    pygmy brain trying to think big.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Mirza

    I think even if it is Muslim, Indians Muslims should simply step aside and give five or ten slaps to Digvijay Singh who tries to use these issues for creating hatred much as LeT does.

    While Muslims are as much affected and I can say from experiece angry with the terrorists who create these blasts, thye somehow let their hopes be hijcjed by some fake leaders– both Hindu and Muslim.

    I remember after 26/11 they let Antulay, Digvinash and Burney create doubts. After Batla house , when Javed Akhtar announced a five lakh compensation for the dead MC Sharma., it was Amar Dalla and Digvijay SIngh who rushed there to declare the terrorists as innocent.

    I think the Muslisms could themselves a favour by spitting on these pimps and dallas of vote banks…

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev
  • http://- Rajeev

    I think Digvijay is leader of Indian Mujahideens and he is definitely involved in these blasts. This needs to be investigated,

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    I just cannot believe the leader of a party will assign blame on another party on a serious situation like a terror attack.

    This is liike george Bush declaring “you cannot rule out democrats in the attack on WTC”…after the WTC attack 9/11.

    This simply is not just highly irresponsble; it is enough to sentence him to jail..

    And how can he pass/why should he pass any opinion, especially at this early stage of investigation – He is not Home Minister or Defence Mi nister or anybody responsible for anything!

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    My very old friend Ravi Prasad has written this article. He has complained that he has had unnecessary hate mail-

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial-views-on/columnsothers/It-s-always-advantage-terrorists/Article1-721235.aspx

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Ravi was a real maverick genius at my school and went to IIT after that. Has led a very productive life after that. Myriad interests

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    So is the point Ravi trying to make is that this attack seems to have been an amateur affair and therefore likely to have been perpetrated by local people.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Rajeev, the bengalconnection shouldn’t surprise you.You professed to have seen BLACK FRIDAY by anurag kashyap. remember the guy chose calcutta as preferred destination for going underground.
    I guess the reason being it is so congested 1000/sq km,easy to vanish in tBecause there have been no riots(major) or terrorist attack SINCE 1947 ., the police is not always on the look out , but do not underestimate IB of calcutta police which used to be very good , built by the british. also it is perceived as “safe haven” due to CPM’s looking otherways. Interesting to see if Mamata’s patriotism or vote bank comes first.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Shan/Rajev

    Or is it bangla Deshi illegal immigrant connection?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @raju kurien , this illegal immigrant business. Being sold to science i hate making wild speculation .
    There is no hard data , we all know there is massive immigration into WB , BUT LOT OF IT IS HINDUS , BUT SOME BORDER TOWNS AND MURSHIDABAD have seen the POPULATION DOUBLED.
    Then this is India callous to the core, though I beleive 2500KM of fencing is going on . There have been arrest time to time of bangladeshis in WB , with HUJI connection. So the answer is I really dont know. I dont know if you are there are MASSIVE NUMBER of URDU speaking people in CALCUTTA. all from BIHAR AND UP.Also lot of biharis from bangladesh sneak into India through WB , because they are treated like dogs in bangladesh.My personal opinion , and I may be proven spectacularly wrong , the urdu speaking ones are well integrated , EXCEPT FOR SUPPORTING PAKISTAN IN CRICKET MATCHES, which is a fact not an allegation. But I think that may have waned now,
    There was a singer in the 80’s , a rafi clone called Mohd Aziz.He was born and brought up in cal and urdu speaking. Now makes money by singing bengali songs , like another SARDARJI AMRIK SINGH ARORA , FAMOUS FOR RABINDRA SANGEET.
    Another one has dubious connection to underworld. He is also urdu speaking from kiderpore , Calcutta. But born and brought up in Cal . He made his debut in the film MITTI (soil) starring sharmistha (daughter of Deb mukherjee , the hero of 1969-74), produced by his gangster uncle.
    He became overnight sensation , calcutta chatterati embraced him as the one to fill the void left by legendary UTTAM KUMAR. He was in all bengali magazines donning DHOTI PUNJABI and doing photo shoot outs. He appeared in several bengali films in Tollywood , BUT BANGLADESH JUST
    COULDN’T GET ENOUGH OF HIM. he became ALL THREE KHANS ROLLED INTO ONE.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    Quite a large number of domestic helps working in Gurgaon hail from Murshidabad. Their fathers and husbands work as rickshaw pullers outside the Metropolitan Mall.

    One of my dreams is to catch a slow train from Calcutta (if my green green Pakistani Passport will allow me) to go to Jalpigurdi and hope that I can hear a baul on the train.

    Purandas would have been my choice but sadly, he has passed away. I did once see him at the Royal Albert Hall during the Proms.

    shan Reply:

    @Ravi you are absolutely right SO MUCH FOR CPM’S SECULAR CREDENTIALS.Muslims are the most neglected section of society in WB. They have been downright IDIOTS , voting cpm year in year out , CPM JUST LETS THEM BUILD AS MUCH MADRASSAS AND MOSQUES. they like. All the money in the treasury is diverted in paying ASTRONOMICAL salary to govt clerks , college teachers , school teachers (99% HINDU) with massively generous pension arrangements.
    As for purna das i once met him on the flight to calcutta in an aeroflot plane .He was returning from NORWAY with his troupe. His second wife bought lot of gold from dubai.
    I am a great fan of Baul. As you love poetry so much , baul’s appeal is in the poetry. Music wise it is a single string instrument. The famous one is GOLEMALEY GOLAMEY PIRIT KORO NA, PIRIT KATHALER AATHA LAGLE PORE CHAREY NA
    rOUGHLY TRANSLATED means do not seek liason in dubious or unsure manner. Love is like the sticky juice of kanthal(jackfruit) once stuck unable to get rid off
    There is another one Pralhad Brahmchari, he used to be his chela then a fierce competitor and they fell out.

  • shan

    Folks about the Bong connection. A vernacular paper , rabidly anti Cpm , called BARTAMAN(present)
    has reported three guys are missing from Mohidul islam lane in KIDERPORE, near Calcutta Docks.
    Police cannot contact them on their mobile. Family members are saying they have gone for job. One of the absconders brother was killed by Gujrat police. These geezers have a shoe shop in kiderpore , but IM apparently been recruiting here. There names bear the affix REZA thus must have originally come from IRAN. one of my class mates was REZA FAZAL

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,
    don’t pretend that you know Sanskrit too.
    mere bartaman means news, Bartaman kaal only means present.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Shenoy, stick to Konkani and your poetry, Bartaman means present in Bengali , like Ateet means past and Bhabhiswat means future. By the way is shenoy and Chinoy same.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    for stupid bongs like you everything is the same.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    For a newspaper, present makes no sense, whereas NEWS makes a lot of sense.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Shenoy

    bartaman means “current”

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    ‘Cu.rrent’ has more appropriateness about it in the context of a newspapewr than ‘present’

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    No, ravi, what my friend Ravi Prasad is saying in that article is this ‘ The political blame-game being played over the Mumbai blasts are misplaced since it is impossible for even the best intelligence agencies to detect and prevent such terror attacks. It would require thousands of security personnel to be on high alert round the clock to prevent one single terror attack. Out of a thousand attempts, a terrorist needs to succeed just once; in contrast, the security agencies need to succeed every single time. ‘
    He is a politically neutral scientist simply reminding the country about the ease of planting bombs and making them from eevryday chemicals including antibiotics and fertiliser !!

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @panditji ,it would not take thousands of personnel , but it will need some 500 INFORMERS who need to infiltrate the organisation IM ,by enrolling themselves as jihadis , also lot of them can be recruited from the mohallas where we know IM finds its support.
    BRITAIN CONTROLLED INDIA WITH THIS TACTICS
    Quote From around the time of first world war until the transfer of power in 1947 the british authorities in India operated a surveillance and intelligence operation with great skill against the forces of nationalism. This was done through a dept of secret service MI5 called INDIAN POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE(IPI).This was done on a limited budget and and with a small number of highly effective officers and their CONTACTS.
    FOR PRACTICAL REASONS A LARGE NUMBER OF INDIANS WERE THEMSELVES INVOLVED IN SURVEILLANCE AND INFILTRATION Unquote (?were they all bramhins ,just a query,shan)
    Source Patrick French “Liberty or Death ” page 97 ,isbn0 00255771 1

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    There are two parts to Ravi Prasad’s analysis, you have highlighted one above.

    What I was suggesting is, my reading of the article also includes this contention that had the PAK Establishment sponsored the attack, then the devices used would have been more sophisticatedly constructed.

    Considering that the devices used were crude and home made suggests that the perpetrators were local amateurs.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pakistanis know how to make their bombs look crude and home made. There are enough fifth columnists, more than columnists, in India to make the bombs.
    If you believe Digvinash Singh, the RSS does excellent crudes bombs.
    This kind of sophistry and hair-splitting will look good on some Pak blogs, not here.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Ravi

    Honestly speaking the bombs were not so crude.

    The timers and activating devices worked flawlessly. Though low yield, the impact was powerful. That means, the bombs were definitely stuffed with some kind of improvised materials to give the maximum impact.

    It’s definitely handiwork of local guys. But they have had good training. Perhaps by new faces.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Prabhat

    I do not have a full knowledge.

    My comment started from Ravi Prasad’s analysis.

    The rest was speculation based on certain assumptions. Which is also the case with every one else.

    If the locals are trained then we are in for a nasty time.

    shan Reply:

    @Prabhat , you need to be clear in your mind what you mean by bengalees . People from bengal , ie, hindu bengalees ,I beleive there is a fair bit concentrated around SHIVAJI PARK area and ? lokhandwala , given the number of durga pujas that seem to spring up every year.Also lot of artisans in zaveri bazar is also poor hindu bengalis from rural bengal. next is bengali muslims , yes they are not much in bombay,more in delhi .next is urdu speaking ones from calcutta.According to a vernacular paper , three guys from the calcutta Dock area (where they are concentrated) are absconding, and IM have been recruting here . Police are on their trail.
    Not to mention marwaris , who have claim to calcutta more than any bengali speaking person has .
    Geonkas are there for SIX GENERATIONS

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Infact, if you compare the blasts in Delhi that with blasts in Mumbai, you will know the difference.

    The Delhi blasts were definitely by rank amateurs.

    Though we are looking at possibilities of these blasts by some bengal based guys, I have a feeling ( just a hunch ), it’s handiwork of a South India or UP based module. The guys who would place these bombs must have abilities to mingle and be anonymous with the local crowd. A bangladeshi / bengal based module would not dare to risk such an ambitious synchronised blasts in Mumbai’s crowded markets.

    Just a hunch.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Prabhat , bengal has HUGE numbers of URDU speaking muslims , parents originally from UP and Bihar. Though the choice of the locale points to Gujrat

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shan

    I agree bengal has a large urdu speaking populace.
    Unlike bihari , UP, South indians, bengalis do not have any large concentrated settlement in mumbai where these guys can get local logistic and other support. This kind of ambitious simultaneous attacks need confident local support including safe houses.

    But I guess one can not rule out anything.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Sorry disaagree with Ravi and Mirza, slightly – ‘ igniting a violent reaction was the prinicipal motive behind this atrocity ‘
    The primary motive is actually like 26/11- kill as many hindus and sikhs as possible, an enemy the Pakistani radicals and their SIMI / IM cousins are taught to hate from infancy. If some muslims get killed, then that is collateral damage.
    The seconday motive is to hit the enemy financially.
    See the Pakistani Studies curriculum in Pak schools- the only ideologically distorted hate programme taught to children, in the whole world

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Typical bramhinical rant PLAYING TO THE GALLERY. Doesn’t lead us far.
    The killing may well be a throwback to the gujrat riot , given the choice of locale.
    Also there has been a SEA CHANGE at least at the moment , in the thinking of the Pak polity and military ,as underscored by Gilani when the addressed the pak national security council or something,
    meeting. His opening lines were ofeering condolences to the bereived family in mumbai.All the Top Brass of army and politics were present there. The LeT with IM ,most likey involved , but pak army and state is probably not . And I have a feeling India should accept the hand of friendship AND GIVE CONCRETE PROPOSALS rather than NARA BAZI ,to pakistan ,in terms of intelligence sharing.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    don’t be so naive to be fooled by Geelani’s histrionics. He can weep copiously in public even while he busies his hand to fondle you-know-what.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    In that case not just slightly, I totally disagree with you.

    Anti India and anti Hindu propaganda are TWO slightly separate activities.

    Anti India propaganda is an essential element of Pakistan’s – a new nation in relative terms – need to define itself. This definition is further sub-divided into two.

    Who is Pakistan NOT like? – The answer is India. To support this identity creation process, anti India propaganda is promulgated through their society. Text books are an element of this.

    Who is Pakistan most like? – This is the drama that we are witnessing now. This part of fabricating an identity is being interfered by the Wahabi sect of Islam and the result is radicalisation of Pakistan society and the need to say that we Muslims are descendants of Arabs, etc. Chat shows are an instruement of this process.

    We are Muslims NOW, and we are not like the heathen Hindus, is the second prong of this identity creation process. This has been going on for several hundreds of years and is now in its consolidatory phase. Once again text books play a role.

    The above TWO activities are Pakistan Strategy and the reasons for WAR both declared and un-declared. WAR has more mundane reasons, such as Kashmir, such as acting as a proxy destabaliser on behalf of Chine (our real enemy)., etc.

    I continue to believe that Mumbai attack was aimed to disrupt the Indo-Pak peace talks.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    Ravi

    Agree with all statements except the last statement —

    Derailing of talks may be the aim of certain groups.

    There are four possible groups who potentially could have done this 1 ) Hindu fundamentalists (affiliated to RSS) 2)Pakistani based terrorists not connected with ISI/army 3) Pakistani terrorisst who are handled by ISI 4) Various Indian Muslim terrorist groups

    It is very unlikely it is Group 1. It will be the end of RSS if it is proved RSS affiliated groups did it . Unless somebody in RSS wanted to end that organization.

    The second group’s objective most likely is to create maximum damage/fear.

    The third group objective, most likey, as you stated is to derail the talks. Th army/ISI wants to keep India as their mortal enemy, because any “normalization” upsets their reason for existence.

    The fourth group’s objective is to provide a “warning” to Indian central and state governments that they could create carnage of huge proportions if they choose, this is just like a “demo” to keep the authorities on the edge. A side purpose is to keep Afsal Guru alive, to pressure govt not to go after Muslim terrorists, and to be light handed in dealing with Muslim terrorism related items.,

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    L Mirza.

    I think to conclude as which of the 4 groups that you have defined could be responsible one has to answer the following question?

    Why now?

    Why Mumbai?

    From my POV the answers are. The long stalled talks between India and Pakistan, started just two weeks ago. The terrorist don’t want those to succeed. They want to remind people that they are stake knife holders, and they wish to dictate the agenda and the eventual terms of settlement.

    Kasab, their soldier, is in Mumbai, it was also his birthday.

    L Mirza Reply:

    Ravi

    I will not give much importance to why now.. Now they became ready; the Pak talks is just a coincidence. Annd most people know that neither Zardari nor Giliani has any power; so the value of talks is zilch..

    Mumbai is easy to target; and the potential casualties will be much higher in Mumbai rather than any other Indian city.

    From the limited amount and strength of the ma5terials they used, my conclusion is that they (most probably Indian Muslim extremists out of the four) used this as a warning; that they could have done more; and will do at a time and place when they decide.

    Ravi Reply:

    L Mirza

    There in lies the difference between us two.

    Have a nice day.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ ravi

    When somebody engineers a co-ordinated / simultaneous blasts, he sends out a message.

    The message could be for Indians or for the boss who they are trying to impress.
    In this case, I think, it’s the 2nd one.

    The reason being, quite a few local SIMI / IM operatives are behind bar. So the general perception is that these modules are in-operative. When a void like this appear, typically the next line of operatives try to fill the gap. And this operatives always try to impress the remote bosses with a “showcase attack”. The latest mumbai blasts fall in that genre.

    this happens in street and gang wars. And it’s no different in guerrilla warfare.

    I guess that answers your “NOW” part of the question.

    Mirza has attempted to answer the location part.

    India’s economic strength will always be a thorn and eyesore to Pakistan. So attacking diamond market is just a symbolic in that direction.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    your analysis is right, but you will certainly get disaapproval points from Vinod Sharma.
    You will now be branded a sanghi/chaddiwala.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Breaking news , as seen in NDTV .A block of flats have collapsed in Gurgaon.a certain blogger in this blog will be blogging today.he has been taken to the kermit as he was the structural engineer, who boasted who is at par with the standards in UK

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Shan

    I have been tempted to resist at you utmost attempts to invoke me at each and every turn, somthing akin to Pak-shit-stanis blaming the US and Isreal and India triggering floods in Pakistan thru sound waves !! :D

    I think you are a confused soul who needs a bit of counselling. That you dont have to shout out all the time…

    Now coming back to your lst two postings…

    a) Like a true Nirad babu clone you have been proud when the whiteman killed the Africans and colonised them. You would have given orgasmic lcetures on the need to educate and make the blacks a part of the Queen’s empire.

    Now since one of the family of the terrorists who looted Africa has apoligised– you like a Nirad clone are preening yursefl on the greatness of the British race. Chit bhi mera… patt bhi meraa :D

    b) For your informatin I am an expert in earthquake engineering and have been called for building restoration in Bhuj and other places. Some innovations by me in engineering have been picked up by the British engineers when we worked together in projects in Dubai.

    So keep ur hysteria to urself Nirad Babu.

    How I wish I could give a certificate of STRUCTURAL UNSOUNDENESS OF THE CEREBRUM OF A STRUCTURE CALLED NIRAD CLONE :D :D

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Vijay, one of your wittier posts, haha

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @vijay Kumar of Gurgaon , where the flats have collapsed, Oh of course you also gave advice to the construction of Fukushima nuclear reactor complex.
    There is a certain saying about empty vessels, which is apt here

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar , a certain book which is published from HARYANA by the authors from haryana can come to your good use
    Seismic Design Criteria For Structures, Systems And Componenets In Nuclear Facilities, ASCE/SEI 43-05
    (Paperback)
    by
    Structural Engineering Institute
    Publisher: American Society Of Civil Engineers (2005-06-22)
    Confidence is good ARROGANCE is a symptom of a empty vessels sounds much

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    very well said.

    Now you can certify that the top story of Shaan Nirad Babu is unsound and is leaning dangerously off its vertical axis. Dr. Mishra, being in UK, may proceed with the repair work. Hopefully the Nirad clone will be restored to certifiable soundness.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Gentlemen

    Are there not enough ISSUES around that we can discuss. Don’t know why we waste time and energy to discuss each other??

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Protecting the country from external and internal terrorism is one of the primary responsibilities of the govt – however, our focus should not just be on that.

    We will most likely catch the Mumbai culprits and (hopefully!) punish them. But will we be punishing the railway bureaucrats, ministers who were responsible for not maintaining the track. Significantly more people got killed and injured here more than in Mumbai attack.

    Corruption is another form of terrorism. When bureaucrats steal crores that is meant to start school for underprivileged, or rural clinics for poor women, these bureaucrats are no different from terrorists – the only difference being the bureaucrat is causing a slow death, while the terrorists cause fast death.

    Catching terrorists and protecting the country against terrorism addresses only one aspect. The other, more important aspect is, is that country worth living in? Do people own it? Do they behave as it is their own country – it should be kept clean, it should have opportunities, all should be equal in front of law, justice should prevail etc etc..Otherwise we are protecting a hollow country.

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    absolutely right!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I don’t believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    All of us here know fully well what you believe in and how you are propagating it.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Life is full of surprises. It’s just not black & white .

    Ravi Reply:

    Prabhat

    This was such a pleasant suprise, I alomost asked Raju to buy himslef a pint on me and that I would happily settle the debt just as soon as Greece had become debt free or I met him.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    no, Ravi, got to correct you completely. Anti hindu brainwashing and propoganda is now INSTITUTIONALISED in Pakistani curriculum for last 20 years. The highly respected Raza Rumi has written several articles bemoaning this fact- too tired to post these nauseous links.
    One of the other senior Pak jounalists commented that to gain extra marks in Pakistani Studies curriculum, all one has to do is write an essay or story and use the words ‘cunning hindu’ or ‘thieving bania’ and THE TEACHERS ARE WELL PLEASED.
    It is not just madarsas where brain washing takes place

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    actually, there is similar shallow abuse on this blog where some people stupidly begin every post by just attacking ‘brahminists’ and ‘brahmins’
    haha
    Actually I do agree with them for the biggest thieves and thugs are brahmins like Mayawati, Mulayam, Lalloo, Buta Singh,

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    dr mishra–

    right…

    we shud be thankful that there is none like tjender here… for him the whole world problem is caused by brhmins and jews… altogether 100 million …..of 6 billion

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    ravi/dr misra

    isnt that what ravi stated — that they are redefining as anti india, anti hindu, distorted origins.. do not see any issue between what u say and what he says..unless i m missing something

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    sorry I thought Ravi was trying to distinguish between anti hindu and anti India propoganda, my contention is that in Pakistan they are now completely intermixed

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    मम सुपरियम पुस्तकम गितस्य रहस्य असति

    असमित रच्यता तुलसी दासः असति/

    Was the first line of an essay I had mugged in order to pass my compulsary Sanskrit Exam at the end of my 8th standard.

    My teacher was well pleased.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    pl translate

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    It says.

    My favourite book is the mysteries of Gita, its creator was Tulsi Das.

    Dr Mishra, I thought you were versed in Sanskrit.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Benoy, you said- ‘ dr mishra– right…we shud be thankful that there is none like tjender here ‘

    Actually, I wasnt just referring to Tajender here. any guesses. haha

    [Reply]

    Binoy Hegde Reply:

    yaa– shan can be a gem if he puts his stupid cowbelt brahmin ranting….he is his own enemy

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Binoy and all the ones who goes into a fit every time the word bramhin is hyphenated with caste oppression. The same reaction satyajit ray faced after his film SADGATI in hindi was released.
    This is an incredible story by Munshi Prem Chand. It is a story of a big fat BRAMHIN played by Mohan agashe. He employs OM PURI a harijan to cut the tree to make way for a wedding venue.
    Om puri the harijan ,hasn’t eaten for three days (not that the bramhin bothered to ask, in fact exhorting the harijan to use the axe with more force) ,in the process of chopping of the tree DIES.
    not the fat bramhin is in impossible dilemma , he cannot the leave the body there , people may accuse him of his death, YET HE CANNOT TOUCH HIM FOR HIS FAT BODY WILL BE DEFILED.
    Ray also faced a torrent of criticism from the bramhins in the media .
    by your criteria Ray andMunshi prem chand were stupid anti bramhin ranters.
    Binoy ,being from KARNATAKA , surely you know about the film SAMASKARA by GIRISH KARNAD.It exposed the hypocrisy of bramhins in the temples .
    Girish Karnad is probably unknown in “cow belt” BUT MUCH LIKED AND REVERED IN WB

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    for the line “not the fat bramhin” read now the fat bramhin

  • http://- Rajeev

    Ravi’s favorite community (muslims) stops Ravi’s community (sikh) from using Gurudwara in Lahore. This story also has Ayodhya kind of logic from muslim side.

    http://www.samachar.com/Sikh-community-in-Lahore-prevented-from-celebrating-festival-lhrqJHjcbhc.html

    Sikh community in Lahore prevented from celebrating festival
    Posted: Jul 17, 2011 at 1558 hrs IST

    Islamabad The Sikh community in the eastern city of Lahore has been barred from organising a religious celebration at a disputed gurdwara after a religious group persuaded authorities that celebrating the Muslim holy day of ‘Shab-e-Barat’ is more important than the Sikh festival.
    The musical equipment of the Sikhs was thrown out and their entry to the gurdwara barred due to the efforts of the Dawat-e-Islami, a Barelvi proselytising group, The Express Tribune newspaper reported today.

    Police were deployed outside the gurdwara to prevent Sikhs from conducting a religious ceremony until after the end of Shab-e-Barat, which falls tomorrow.

    The Sikh community wanted to commemorate an eighteenth-century saint at the gurdwara on Friday.

    Gurdwara Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh at Naulakha Bazaar in Lahore was built to honour the memory of a Sikh saint who was executed in 1745 on the orders of the Mughal governor of Punjab, Zakaria Khan.

    Every July, Sikhs have held religious ceremonies to commemorate his sacrifice.

    Though the gudwara was taken over by the Evacuee Trust Property Board after Partition, Sikhs were allowed to continue using it with relatively few restrictions.

    Four years ago, the Dawat-e-Islami claimed the gurdwara was located on the site of the grave of a 15th century Muslim saint, Pir Shah Kaku.

    The group claimed Kaku was the grandson of Baba Fariduddin Ganjshakar, an “implausible claim” since Ganjshakar died in 1280 while it claims that Kaku died almost 200 years later, in 1477, the daily reported.

    The Sikh community had approached ETPB, which allowed both communities to observe their religious rituals according to their own beliefs at the gurdwara.

    The Dawat-e-Islami used it every Thursday for prayer services while Sikhs used it once a year for the anniversary of Taru Singh’s martyrdom.

    This year, when Sikh men went in to set up their musical instruments on July 13, they were thrown out by men from Dawat-e-Islami and prevented from re-entering the shrine.

    Members of the Sikh community, many of whom fear to be identified, said the leader of the group of men, Sohail Butt, claimed that the gurdwara was now a mosque and Sikhs would not be allowed to bring in their musical instruments any longer.

    Butt admitted he had prevented Sikhs from performing their ritual, claiming that the gurdwara was inside the courtyard of the mosque.

    “Shab-e-Barat is more important than the Sikh ritual,” Butt said, adding the ETPB had accepted his group’s stance.

    Officials from ETPB admit that they have asked the Sikh community to postpone their celebrations until after Shab-e-Barat.

    ETPB Deputy Administrator Faraz Abbas, who deals with Sikh affairs across Pakistan, admitted that Sikhs had been denied entry into the gurdwara.

    Gurunanak Mission president Sardar Bishon Singh said the ETPB’s decision to bar Sikhs from entering their shrine was against the constitution.

    He said that he approached the ETPB but was told to wait until after Shab-e-Barat.

    “How can we postpone the rituals of our faith,” he asked, adding that the government was not paying attention to their cause.

    Singh appealed to Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry to take suo moto action over the violation of rights of minorities in Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    L Mirza Reply:

    Is it news anymore.. Everybody knows there has been systematic and non-systematic destruction of other faiths in Pakistan; the number of minorities has shrunk significantly from the days of partition etc..

    Now with the blasphemy law etc etched in well, does anybody expect anything to change?? Can it? What will be needed?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @LMirza , you are absolutely right, and it is sad really. I think the main reason is the islamic countries ARE LAGGARD , ALSO THE CONSTANT HUMILIATION in the world at large .
    People talk about turkey ,but that is because the army breathes down the neck and makes sure it stays clear of talibanic islam. But Turkey ,urban lot is superb , the rural lot is pakistan by the bosphorus. I am at wits end to suggest a pathway whereby islamic world becomes relaxed and embraces WESTERN CIVILIZATION whose fruit they never ever decline .

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    L Mirza

    I agree with you analysis of what is happening in Pakistan.

    I have before now said here that we should never cease to protest about the treatment of minorities, Hindus, including Sikhs, Christians, Ahemadis etc.

    However, there are some plotical elements in India who waste not time in denegrating Indian Muslims – who are nothing like Pakistani Muslims, based upon what is happeneing in Pakistan.

    This leads me to belive that prinicipal objective of such politician is Islamophobic, they are less interested in the plight of poor Hindus in Pakistan, so long as they can take a pot shot at Indian Muslims.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Ravi,
    Protesting treatment meted out to minorities in Pakistan is not as easy as it may appear. The principal problem here is such a criticism from our side will sure enough attract more oppression and retaliation for those same minorities which we intend to protect. It was difficult during Vajpayee-Musharraf period (the post kargil part when personal chemistry between both the gentlemen contributed hugely towards de-escalation between two countries), it is much worse now when mutual suspicion is not exactly very low.
    Bad and un-fortunate as it may sound, but raising issues in the absence of mutual framework (notice here the key is “mutual framework” – something genuine and not something that amounts to keep mouth shut) is going to make situation lot worse than it already is for the minorities. It compares a lot with even genuine grievances of local people in Kashmir being clouded by suspicion when smebody from Pakistan lends a voice to it.
    (I am almost assured about rhetorical “howls of indignation” on this last line :-) ).
    - Mahesh.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    I would agree with you up to a point and no further.

    I would agree that protesting about minorities in Pakistan would draw unwanted attention towards them and that may prove to be detrimental to them. This as you say may be counter productive to the original intention of the protestors.

    However, not doing anything is just as bad. I would not protest about the plight of JUST Hindus but of all minorities.

    Hindu Minorities in Sri Lanka were also not treated as well as India treats its minorities.

    In Burma Hindu’s are treated as foreigners, they are barred from certain categories of jobs such as civil service, Army, etc.

    However, the Internet Hindus, who have settled in the blog do not moan about their plight. That is because their real gripe is not that fellow Hindus are badly treated. It is focused on that Muslims are treating Hindus badly.

    It is this part that I find objectionable and I recognise it as unfinished RSS business.

    Mahesh Reply:

    Ravi,
    “However, not doing anything is just as bad. I would not protest about the plight of JUST Hindus but of all minorities.”
    Actually, my stress was “mutual framework” that involves Pakistani state at some level. And that a uni-lateral action could me much more counter-productive. Not sure how it translates into “not doing anything”. Incidentally, we tried it with Sri-Lanka and failed dearly. An UNPKF probably could’ve been far more effective in the place of IPKF. (BTW, the faultlines in Sri-Lanka were linguistic in nature – Tamils vs. Sinhalese ). That said, I mostly agree with you on the Internet Hindus point.
    - Mahesh.

    Mahesh Reply:

    A small correction….
    “uni-lateral action could me much more counter-productive”
    is to be read as
    “uni-lateral action could be much more counter-productive”.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    I think we are agreeing more than dis-agreeing.

    I find your concept of “mutual framework” an interesting concept.

    I think the difference is, I had in my mind “Protests” which requires nothing more than putting pressure on a regime by letting it know our feelings.

    However, if one was to arrive at a practical “Solution” then it becomes necessary to have a “mutual framework”.

    I guess the difference is that of emphasis.

  • Prabhat

    I am coming back to this blog after many days / weeks.

    I am pleased to see the quality of the discussion improving. The debates are mostly devoid of abuses, though some people are still snipping at others out of old habits. But I guess even that is on decline.

    Great !

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    ~~ :( :( ~~ HOW TO CO0ERCE AND CONVERT MINORITIES, PAKISTANI STYLE ~~ :( :( ~~~

    Pakistan– the mother and father of all evil against minorites– has perfected a number of laws to exterminate, convert and co-erce non Sunni Muslims. Unfortunately even the most liberal of Pakistanis would be loath and scared to remove these laws.

    Here is a list

    a) Law against apostasy. While ohter religions are forcibly and not so forcibly asked to convert to islam, a Muslim faces a death penalty in case he converts to some other religions. In case some one wants to say become a Sikh from a Muslim, here is a possible reason he could face death.

    Now a Pakistani will always defend this las with passion with one sided reasons like
    i) Nobody wants to leave Islam anyway since it is the best relgion
    ii) We are an Islamic nationa so it is our right to have this law.

    b) Blasphemy : If a Muslim and a Hindu have a fight for property in Pakistan, chances arfe the Hindu would be hauled up for insulting ISlam ! :D The biased Paksitani state is capable of giving him the death penalty….

    Salman Taseer was the last famous victim of blasphemy. But thousands of non famous ones are languishing in jail.

    c) Biased police, ISI and political set up tilted against Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Ahemdaiyas of Pakistan make sure that these minorites have to convert or be dead….

    NOW THE BIG QUESTION : WHY SHOULD SUCH A STATE NOT BE DISMANTLED BY THE UN ??

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    Just in case there is any doubt.

    Pakistan treats its minorities in such a way that the term – slow genocide – could justifiably be applied. I have made my views on this very clear.

    However, there are some fundamental problems with the way we discuss these issues.

    1. It is not a fair comparison when one compares, near totalitarian regimes such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to worlds largest Liberal Democracy India. The two are completely different political constructs. Like for like comparison is impossible and unproductive unless anti Islam rant is ones only objective.

    2. Historically, Christians around the world have – perpetrated un-imaginable horrors on natives of more than half the globe. In Africa, Latin America, North America and Australia. When Shan gave an example of Mr Hawkins trying to close a chapter by saying sorry in a demonstrative way, Raja Shenoy laughed, as only he is capable of doing.

    Strategy of religious persecution is not just restricted to Islam, and once such a strategy is agreed then all instruments, available to the establishment, are employed to achieve its goals, this includes, trade, police, clergy, patronage, etc etc.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Balderdash, every body knows what is happening in Pakistan . LOT USED TO HAPPEN IN INDIA ,
    and still happens. Like marrying to a muslim man , will be socially ex communicated.
    Corssing the seas was deemed a sin . Sati. and widow burning. Bramhins having 100 wives as young as five .
    The great reformer of Bengal ISHWAR CHANDRA VIDYASAGAR(LOOK IT UP IN WIKI) broke down in tears seeing the newest wife of his guru.Guru being 65 , wife 15.
    But HINDUS managed to expunge all this WHY ISLAM/PAKISTAN COULDN’T GET RID OF ITS DEMONS.Sermonising is the standard of togadia and singhal , analysing and trying to find an answer is the standard of Coffee House in college street opposite presidency college in calcutta.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    you forgot to mention full name of ishvar chandra vidya Sagar. I t was ishwar chandra sharma. Chew on this.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Pankaj#1, I dont need to chew , i have digested and the constituents are now lodged in my hippocampus.
    He did not have a bone of prejudice ,nor any bramhinical trait. In fact in character and manners he was described as an Englishman.He married off his son to a WIDOW , which is of same gigantic leap like your intern daughter marrying a BLACK AFRO AMERICAN FROM JAMAICA or from Harlem

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;.
    No problem here. My grand father propogated this idea of widow marraiga, when, even your father was not born. My daughter is not an intern. she is as swell qualified as you. Are you a consultant or what we call as attending physician/ surgeon, if not, than do not behave like one.

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    DISAGREE ON APOLOGIES AND GIMMICKS

    Mr Hawkins, please stay away from Jalianwala baag. If you come and chain yourself there I am sorry, it is a cheap gimmick. When it mattered, then the English community in India and UK raised a kings ransom to give to Gen Dyer in case he was prosecuted. Rudyard bloody Kipling led the drive in India.
    Brutality happened, we have moved on. A quiet apology from Queen or Cameron would suffice, but not that the proud Indians are dying for it.
    When they have to the Europeans can be quite brutal. Nasser nationalised Suez, and the thugs of the UK and French Army landed in Egypt and in the botched operation that followed, killed a few hundred Egyptians.
    None of the Egyptians I have met here want any wishy washy apology.
    IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING THEN RETURN THE BLOODY ELGIN MARBLES AND THE KOH-I-NOOR DIAMOND

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    I liked Vijay’s comments on this-
    ‘ Now since one of the family of the terrorists who looted Africa has apoligised– you like a Nirad clone are preening yursefl on the greatness of the British race. Chit bhi mera… patt bhi meraa ‘

    F hell I am furious at this white ar se worshipping.
    What next- Bush’s grandson goes to Iraq in 2075 and fasts for 2 days- sorry, my dadaji was a bit of a cretin, sorry for 5 lakh deaths, sorry for …

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr.Mishra, Pankaj,

    that is Shaan Nirad Babu for you, aptly described as white-a.rse-kissing, loyal British subject with the soul mortgaged to the whites. His tall claim about retaining his Indian passport is actually like himself-a SHAM. The bon-homie being witnessed here among the Hindu baiters and Hindu haters is quite revealing, with Mahesh and Prabhat bringing up the well hidden ugly rear and performing the job of chorus. They know Vinod Sharma can always be relied upon to give them certificates in three langauges.

    Vijay,

    you know very well why the Hindus and Sikhs are facing increased atrocities in Pakistan. It is in retaliation for the Sikhs of Indian state of Punjab badly letting down the Smiling Cobra, Field Marshal Zia. If they had helped in the creation of Khalistan, these Pak minorities would perhaps have had a slightly less tortourous life. He had banked heavily on the Indian Sardars turning anti-national and helping him along on his Destroy-Indida-by-vivisection scheme.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Shenoy , Shan holding on to Indian Passport is as true as you not releasing the sanctioned bank loan without GHOOS, before you left and became a chota mota businessman ,when the bank audit became rather uncomfortable

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    As often you it seems, you have missed the point.

    Britain and US have at NATIONAL level already apologised for Slavery.

    Mr Hawkins was doing it on behalf of the Hawkins family. No one was asking or expecting him to do so.

    He did it because he wanted CLOSURE in his own mind.

    However, you do have a point to question at a philosophical level if apologies for historical mis-deeds is a good or a bad thing,

    This is not to ignore personal reparations individual may or may not feel.

    This afternoon I saw Everything Is Illuminated, a fine film. I recommend it because it covers personal journeys.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @panditji , the inhabitants of jalianwala baag at the present time have a different perspective on this matter

    NSURPRISINGLY, New Labour’s new nationalism feeds and informs the worst kinds of obscurantism in Punjab itself. SGPC president Gurcharan Singh Tohra, for example, argued that the Queen’s visit was vital if the truth about Operation Bluestar and state repression against Sikhs was to become known to the world. The Sikh Right, like its Hindu and Islamic counterparts (to varying degrees), is financially underwritten by emigrants in the West, who seek to address their own cultural neurosis and anxieties by sponsoring revanchism in Punjab, the imagined repository of their identities. The Right’s attraction to emigre Sikhs has been its spurious claim that it is engaged in a battle against a state enterprise of genocide and cultural annihilation in Punjab. Tohra now sought to use New Labour’s nationalism to affirm his own position as a legitimate spokesman for Sikhs as a whole, a preposterous claim that the Western media uncritically accepted (see box). At the end of the Queen’s visit to the Golden Temple, Tohra said that Elizabeth had been shown bullet marks from Operation Bluestar, in which she had shown “great interest”.

    Communal politics, then, constituted the third layer of the Amritsar onion. Tohra’s need to sustain the fictions of the Sikh Right explains the SGPC’s obsequious handling of the Queen’s visit. Religious workers had been assembled to shout slogans of “Queen Zindabad”, as Tohra and Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal offered gifts to the imperial visitor. Elizabeth and Philip remained seated as the dignitaries gifted them a gold-plated model of the temple, sponsored by a Birmingham-based religious group, and an ornamental sword. Both Badal and Tohra bent over in a hilariously low bow when the still-seated Queen gave them a flower vase each.
    http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1422/14220460.htm

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan Babu

    Bhalo bolbay

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Ravi tusi banda bemisaal

  • shan

    @mahesh , i can throw some light on the srilankan situation. First of all Tamils are very very very DRIVEN people. they were occupying all the jobs in govt dept by virtue of mastering english. Native srilankans have originated from EAST INDIA ?Bengal. Rice obsessed , lazy bum. They simply lost out to Tamils. There is not much intermarriage, thus the two communities are separate as are the language. THIS IS WHERE RACISM STARTED with discrimination , with the BUDDHIST CLERGY JOINING IN. One srilankan junior doctor told me . in srilanka if you visit a buddhist temple , you will see rows and rows of hindu gods and goddess lining the main entrance , till you walk a fair distance and then come to the shrine where buddha is seated.
    Apparently srilankans seem to get stuck at these idols offering puja , completely ignoring Buddha.
    A srilankan buddhist doctor gave a presentation about surgical services in srilanka. Because of 30yrs of war and impossible to get into UK for training , they look up to India to make them abreast of latest advances.In fact doctors from India have held workshops on Holmium laser prostate operation etc.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan,
    ” First of all Tamils are very very very DRIVEN people. they were occupying all the jobs in govt dept by virtue of mastering english. Native srilankans have originated from EAST INDIA ?Bengal. Rice obsessed , lazy bum. They simply lost out to Tamils. There is not much intermarriage, thus the two communities are separate as are the language. THIS IS WHERE RACISM STARTED with discrimination , with the BUDDHIST CLERGY JOINING IN.”
    Agreed. Sri-lanka is excellent how the economic frustration strengthens and feeds the communal / linguistic faultlines.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Correction…
    “Agreed. Sri-lanka is excellent how the economic frustration strengthens and feeds the communal / linguistic faultlines.”
    Needs to be read as ….
    “Agreed. Sri-lanka is excellent example of how the economic frustration strengthens and feeds the communal / linguistic faultlines.”
    Guess it is time for me to hit the sack.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mahesh;
    Very brief, interjection. Sinhalas are from orissa and Bihar. Not from Bengal. Just, tell me, have you ever heard of KALA PAHAR. we will go from there.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Well unlikely from orissa ,for to my knowledge there are no great buddhist relics in Orissa ,
    THERE IS MASSIVE BIHARAS IN BANGLADESH ,place called rangamati.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    Ashoka was from magadh;
    that is present Bihar, he sent his son and daughter to Sri lanka., where they propagated Buddhism. It is possible that, many of the Sinhalas are from people from Bihar, at least they claim to be different from Dravidians, more like Aryans than Dravidians No demeaning here for Dravidians here, it is a race, I love Sri Lankans, they stir some vibrations, was in touch with some of them, not different from Indians. Could not find any connection with Sri lankans and Bengalis No demeaning here. We should be true and factual. I mentiomned, Orissa, because, just after conquering Kalinga, he became Budhist and than, sent his progeny to propagate his new religion.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Shan

    You are mistaken

    Khandagiri, Dhauli etc. in Orissa have caves, budhist worship place and budhist relics.

    Kalinga war was the turning point in Asoka’s life. So it’s natural, we would see budhist relics in Orissa. Pankaj is right about Magadh too.

    shan Reply:

    @Pankaj#1 and prabhat, Guys what I have written is not exactly my opinion. Onequite senior srilankan doctor (surgeon) told me as such. According to him srilankan buddhist are not that distant arrivee.You should keep in mind LANKA was always there , remember the song from bacchan Snr Film Jadugar “Lanka mey danka bajaney aya hanuman”
    Ramayan is pre Ashoka , the description of lanka is graphic , even the fact that sea separates it from india , thus hanuman builds bridge with monkey sena. BANGLADESH HAS HUGE BIHARAS , which atteststo the fact there were huge numbers of buddhist ,WHERE DID THEY VANISH , only some in the hills called Chakma is still left .Burmese buddhism may have arrived from bangladesh which shares a border. I would love to be enlightened

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    first of all, it has not been finally settled that Sri lanka, described in Ramayan was the present Sri lanks or it was somewhere in Dandkaryan in present day M-P. for my part, I will settle for Sri lanks, also known as Ratnadweep in ancient literature for the abundance of gems found there, relatively easily. Do not know, what happened to those gems now, why they are not being mined now, are they got exhausted like Golkonda mines? secondly, there are many relics, which are related to Ramayan period in Sri Lanka, actively promoted by Sri Lanka tourism. I huge set of slides are doing round on web about these sites. Ravan, considered a hero by Dravidians and Sri lankans alike for his achievements and knowledge, acknowledged even by Ramayan.
    Buddhism was a very potent religion, had its swya in far bigger area, like, china, central asia , mongolia, far east , india and where not. This tide of buddhism was fought by vediks , Adi guru Shankaracharya etc, and hinduism again turned back in India. Now, in India, present day pakistan, Bangla desh etc, you do not find many Buddhists, though large number of relics are found every where. In fact, Afghanistan is full of those relics. if present bangla desh has many relics but hardly any buddhists, is self explainatory. It does not mean, that Sri lankans came from Bengal. My idea, regarding Bihar and or orissa was based on the idea, that Ashok was responsible for introducing Buddhism in Sri lanks and most probably Sri lankans were hindus to begin with. Though now, christians are also very powerful there, because of their education and favorable treatment they received during english rule.

  • shan

    This mishra is tosser . he is fuming with rage against the misdeeds of the english YET AVAILED THE BRITISH CITIZENSHIP AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY BRFORE YOU COULD COUNT TEN

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    because you idiot, England and I have both moved on. But I, unlike you am fiercely proud of the best of Indian culture and am actively invited by the Indian embassy over the last 2 decades for cultural functions and for political lobbying in the FRIENDS OF INDIA CLUB, at the House of Lords.
    Learn how to separate the personal from the public debate. Indians may not be overfond of radical Islam but have to work in the gulf for rozi roti.
    I am respected by the English here at the highest levels of society, something which you can not even begin to imagine, and that is precisely because of my fierce Indian identity.
    THE ENGLISH ALSO HAVE THE GREATEST CONTEMPT FOR THE NIRAD TYPE CLONES, MUCH THE SAME AS THE ARAB DOCTORS HAVE CONTEMPT FOR MOST OF THE PAKISTANIS WHO GO GUSHING UPTO THEM TRYING TO FLAUNT THEIR ARABIC NAMES ND CULTURES.
    GOOD F NIGHT

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    I was busy, hence the delay. You called me WASP. Fine, there is a word here, protestant. Yes, I am a protestant. I want to protest everything, which to my humanist mind appear, injustice. Now, for you, you appear to me as a Tri Nitro Toluene. Very unstable, highly explosive and everything destructive than constructive. Ponder over it. I would like to interact with you on constructive matter not destructive. This is just an alert. We should not go to path of destruction, even at this point, if destruction is required for construction, I am for it, but not destruction for the sake of destruction. received a call, lost my track, enough for this post.

    [Reply]

  • L Mirza

    Ravi—

    You made a sattement that “Indian Hhindus are not doing anything (or something like that) when Hindus are msitreated in other countries – Mayamar, Sri Lanka etc and that going after the Hindu plight in Pakisatn has some ulterior RSS motives…”

    You are misguided, singul;lar agenda guy as others in this blog have been saying.

    Indian Hindus do not have an Umma like Muslims traveling to other countries fighting against “injustice”. They will,let each country to dispense its laws per their consitutition.

    The reason they are focused on Pakistan (and Bangla Desh) is quid pro quou. It is recent history; a country is divided carving out separate domicile for Muslims. The fact that it remained an unfinished business on one side- while the other side systematically destroyed its minorities/Hindus – is a nagging , continuing concern for many Indians, especially many Hindus. Indian Hindus see Muslim population in India incerasing, Muslims are “protected” minorities, educvational and other benefits flow to them, funds are allocated for their welfare. And they see at the same time, Hindus and other minorities are destroyed in Pakistan. So, it is quite natural to focus on the plight of Hindus and other minorities in Pakistan, while ignoring about Hindus in Mayanmar (are theer any Hindusain Mayanmar???) The emotional connect with one is recent, memories of running away from Pak to India stille xisting for many – where as StriLAnka etc there is no emotional connect because those migrations happened centuries ago with none on either country having any memories of any relatives from the originating country.

    But with Pakistan divisin happened, many Indians feel they have been cheated tme and again – the destruction of minorities nd acts of terrorism as continuing affronts.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    L mirza

    I understand the point you are trying to make.

    Sadly, I do not accept it in its entirety.

    Agreed that Pakistan, Bangladesh have treated their minorities, particularly Hindus badly.

    However, this does not mean that Indians should as a quid pro quo treat Indian Muslims badly or even with suspicion.

    Once again, it is unfair to ask a liberal democracy to adopt the values of religious orthodoxy.

    [Reply]

    Aaloke Reply:

    Ravi,

    I think what infuriates all other bloggers about your posts is your Emphasis. Like you will write ” I accept that Pakistan/Muslims have behaved badly with Hindus” ( 10 words ). There after will be 1000 words written on how Hinduism is bad, how Muslims are treated badly in India, How your favorite subject of Dalits , Devdasis etc.crops up without any context. And when some one confronts you on your Bias, you have these 10 words ready for your defense.
    Well , that is how arguments are done where everyone is a looser. Arguments are driven with individual Egos. On the contrary,in a Discussions everyone gains. If my point proves to be in-accurate, I gain new perspective. Person whose point is proved more accurate also gains . He finds the point of view more strengthened as it has been discussed and has come out as more accurate.

    L.Mirza,

    I think your analysis is on Dot. I have tried in detail to go to the root cause in my earlier post . However I find most of posts here skirt the root causes . Bloggers are generally content with minor and frivolous issues. However this Blog is still enjoyable, though more discussions ( Not Arguments ) which are result oriented, which look at root causes ( like your post above ) would have made this blog more enjoyable and Enlightening.

    Shan,

    As many have pointed out earlier, you do possess lot of knowledge. However you spend lot of time in aggressive Argumentation and foul language.-Sure recipes for Discussion Failure. Many times I find your understanding more literal than in depth. However you definitely are enjoyable,though corrosive many times.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Aaloke,
    You have diagnosed Ravi’s illness accurately. He has been putting up this sikh-who-supports-taliban facade for a long time.

    In earlier blogs he actually supported Islamic terrorism and seemed to be a fan of Osama.

    He is a unique sikh who condones the murder of 5000 sikhs in 1984…truly unique.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Aloke

    Anybody’s argument will tend to get lengthy when he is trying to argue in a negative environment. The person would struggle to make himself heard.

    If you noticed Ravi’s arguments to be lengthy, then you must have also noticed that his arguments are getting shorter and crisper. That’s because some qualitative change in this blog. Participants are becoming tolerant and willing to listen. Slowly, the line of “us vs ‘em” is blurring – which is actually healthy.

    Our time on this blog would be productive if such a healthy atmosphere continues.

    shan Reply:

    @Aaloke , dont need to advise me ,be advised

    James T Cassidy says:
    July 23, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    A humble advice to my friends

    Do not cross your swords with Shan. There is only one outcome! And you know what it is.
    If you are polite, you will get an equally polite and well researched answers. If you choose to go the abrasive path, be ready to receive what is launched at you

    shan Reply:

    @L mirza , the main reason is, pakistan is formenting trouble till recently and bangladesh was created out of sacrifice by indian soldiers . Also in case of bangladesh there is a vested interest , oppression of hindus leads to immigration to already hyper crowded west bengal.

    [Reply]

  • Binoy Hegde

    Vijay

    It would have been a lot simpler and cleaner if pak did not ahve bombs. US/India/Israel and others should work together to denuke that wretched country. Once the security of nukes is verified 100%, and that there is no way crazies will get Nukes, there are many options to declaw that murderous country – generals can be killed; US knows hhow to drone them, selective area bombing can be done as long as we are prepared to 1) tolerate the killings and 2) are prepared for possible blow ups from ragtags..

    I do not think there is a “middle ground” or “middle class’ in pak anymore that want to coexist with india. Even oif there are people, it will be a small minority, say 10%. Now, it will be good if that 10% can be influenced and made tpo lead the country. But that is a difficult proposition.

    Denuking is the highest priority. In fact they are in a mad race to develop more bombs; a study recently said they have a stockpile which is 3rd or 4th in the world! They are following what Bhutto said years ago–we will eat grass, but we will build bombs — we could look the other way in his times; not anymore.
    btw has Indian Muslims – their umbrella org, deobadh school etc etc -evr protested on a a nation wide basis against **** terrorism, incursions etc

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Binoy , well understood ,BUT SEEN ON TV ,hilary testifying to senate commitee,with these words”We cant do much in pakistan , they have nuclear weapons”. perhaps you need to keep in mind INDIA HAD WARNED THE US AND THE WORLD in 1980’s about the doomsday scenario and INVENTED the term ISLAMIC BOMB . But yanks ARROGANT MORONS so far foreign policy is concerned , REBUFFED india , for they haveby then SO MESMERISED BY THE AGILITY OF PATHANS IN USING STINGER MISSILES, had no time for India.India should devolope close relation with USA ,BUT SHOULD NOT TRUST IT FULLY

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    @ Everyone;
    Digvijay slaps BJP worker, who were showing him black flags. Come on guys, this man does not require civil treatment. pay him in the same currency.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    Digvijay actually “chased” the men who started heckled him and then slapped them.

    [ You missed out the interesting "chasing" part. ]

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    He also had done the same thing way back in 2006 when he was heckled in public. That time he had “punched” the guy.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I think that BJP guy must have physically manhandled Diggi to provoke such a response. Our press should tell the real story. BJP guy actually kicked the rear of Diggi… :)

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev,

    “(the) BJP guy actually kicked the rear of Diggi”

    I CONGRATULATE THIS GUY. HE HAS DONE WHAT SONIA GANDHI SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    There is more to the “black flag” demonstration. It was typical of BJP.

    The event goes like this -

    Few guys wait on the road with “garlands” pretending to be Digvijay’s supporters. The moment Digvijay goes close to them, few guys with black flags “who were hiding behind” this front row come out and start heckling digvijay.

    The chase begins.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    A bramhin fool called mishra , try deceiving yourself and live in a make beleive world
    this is what your country of which grants you a passport thinks in a similar vein
    Addressing members of the country’s conservative Christian Democratic Union, Merkel deemed multiculturalism a failure and said that immigrants to Germany need to assimilate or get out, AFP reported.
    SOME MORE OF HOW THE PASSPORT GIVING COUNTRY ACTUALLY FEELS
    Third World immigrants come to the west to enjoy the benefits of western civilization — superior health care, a modern economy, first-rate education, democracy, law and order, among countless other virtues. You are here to partake of these advantages not re-create the tribulations you left behind.

    . If here already, we will help you return home so you can better practice your cherished culture. Otherwise, you’re in England now and behave like a proper Englishman.

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    Mahesh

    What happened in Sri Lanka is very complex.

    But the trigger point was a minority-majority imbalance. With the minority (Tamils of Indian origin) receiving all sorts of ghovt support and them controlling levers of bureaucracy and their outright affront to the majority made the Sinhalese feel alienated from their own country – this alienation unleashed dthe monsters in them, which was retaliated by the minorities ultimately forming seccession movements and later in the total manslaughter of both innocent and guilty Tamils and a return to “normalcy” if it can be called that.

    Digvijay and his cronies and the govt both at state and central levels, while appeasing and placating minorities should be aware of the trigger points that will unleash a majoority fury.

    The Marad 2 murders (where many hindu fishermen were killed in a planned progrom by Muslims ) happened in kerala when AK Antony was the chief minister. To his credit, he stated that minorities, through govt support and programs have become more politicaslly organized (than majority)making the majority be the real alienated people. Muslim League made a major isssue of this; complained to Sonia Gandhi, and he had to resign his CMship.

    Indian politicians should study Sri Lankan fury when somebody like Digvijay openly remarks Hindus are suspects (instead of saying we do not know who did it, investigation is continuing etc) , or when zillions of rupees are spent on the upliftment of Moradabad, but not a rupee on Madurai… A backfire like Srilanka happens as a culmination of insults when the system finally explodes. We may not be at that stage; but leadfers liek Digvijay are working overtime to hasten the trigger point.

    [Reply]

  • Prabhat

    @ Gopi

    Your Post : Digvijay openly remarks Hindus are suspects (instead of saying we do not know who did it, investigation is continuing etc)…

    Actually Digvijay said things to that effect only.

    reporter : Do you suspect Sangh involvement in Mumbai blasts ?

    DigVijay : “I do not rule out anything. If they want evidence about Sangh’s involvement in terror activity, I have got evidence. But not in this case.”

    [

    Mark his utterance starts with " I do not rule out anything".

    This shows his comments were in response to a question. It was not a regular media briefing.

    ]

    Now, this whole thing has become like Amitabh starrer RGV movie where “quick edit” creates a sensational “breaking news”.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Whatever the case, Digvijay seems to be involved with IM operatives…We can not rule out anything.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,

    Prabhat ias trying to put some kind of twist into what Digvinash said about Hindus. He actually said that the RSS is running baom factories.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Shenoy

    Very typical of you to twist the chronology.

    What I mentioned was the first day quote.

    What you quoted is today’s quote. And by the way all Hindus do not belong to RSS. Come down from your high horse.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat, hold your horses. Digvinsh spoke about Hindu terror more than RSS terror too.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    And, if you had read his today’s comments, why do you ask your readers to eat yesterday’s pulav?

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Read Gopi’s comment. See the context that things are being discussed. Don’t just barge in and punch in your comments.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Aaloke,

    Again, as has become a habit with him, Prabhat has tried to brush Ravi’s comments here with the coat of respectability. He has obviously not read his long harangue on the daily 5000 dalit rapes and daily 200 killings of Dalits by upper caste Hindus. The basic fact is his Hindu-phobia, which Prabhat, Mahesh and also Vinod Sharma may try to obfuscate and pretend as never having been there in the first place. But, like you said, many bloggers here beg to differ with them.

    Vinod Sharma and also his side kick, Prabhat, should carefully read what Gopi has written and get the import, because it has a big kernel of truth in it. Digvinash, as most have correctly seen, has embarked on a hell-for-leather hate Hindu campaign, very short-sightedly imagining that this is the right royal way to the Muslim vote bank, which has, of late shown disaffection and dissatisfaction with the way they are treated by the congress. Example: Bihar.

    Congress, better take heed, or be prepared to bleed.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy, the BJP Leaders’ Ice cream ( topped with kaju, kismis and badam ) licker !

    Stop polluting the blog.

    Allow people to discuss and debate peacefully. I also had told you before not to pinch people and expect pinch in return. Be ready for an occasional slap.

    I feel so sad to see you becoming irrelevant in this blog.While the participants on this blog have moved on and started contributing valuable opinions, you are just struggling to stay afloat and trying to find some semblance of relevance by posting silly ones.

    You are just heading for a sad end game.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    long absence has obviously affected your grey cells.

    you may pinch and oyu may slap, you may also abuse, as you have done so pathetically today.
    But, I am as relevant as you or anybody else here is and I know my opinion counts too, unlike yours, which most believe, represent Vinod Sharma in absentia. Please also let me know where others have moved. And also read what L.Mirza has advised Fake Ravi about his Hindu bashing and also read Gopi again. It may clear saome of the cobwebs in your head.

    You may also get a reality check done about your own “self” by reading in some of the recent blogs what others have written about you. You will know the END IS NOWHERE NEAR FOR CLONES.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Stop living in denials.

    No wonder people say everything comes with an expiry date.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    But not with expired date and with a revival date as in your case.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I know, you come with “ONLY” expiry date.

    Check how close you already are !

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    don’t be so arrogantly sure about your own permanence on this earth.
    you should bear in mind that you are no “mrityunjay”, you are no “avinash”, neither are you invincible, indestruct ible or “ichchhamarani” (I hope you undertand these things).
    More young people are dying these days than ever before.

    Not knowing when you are going to die helps you to live,
    but believing that you will live for ever spells your doom.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Who’s talking about physical life span here ?

    I said ” everything comes with an expiry date “.

    Here ‘everything’ means “your ability to engage others meaningfully on this blog “.

    May God or scientists give you 150 years life span.

    But stop calling names while you post your opinions. Definitely, I will raise the heat if you get personal or call names. Why only me ? Anybody would do that.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    And Prabhat only this morning gave a big ‘certificate’ to Ravi for his ’small posts’, having ‘moved on’ and becoming secular!

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Prabhat,

    with this reply you have shown that your thinking processes are very close to Ravi.

    Your comment about my being near my end and then saying, “maine aisa tho nahin kahaa thaa” is typical of Ravi.

    About raising the heat, show that you are hot and call any name that you think would “insult” me. A few like your friend, Ravi and your mutual friend, Shaan Nirad Babu, have done it. Calling names has lost its shock value or of being a novelty. i would even say, please consult Vinod Sharma, the master at calling names.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Shenoy

    Till now I never thought I would call you a dumb. Guess, you just deserve to be called one.

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    You are white washing your and RSS’s Islam phobia.

    My mention of Dalit rapes and murders were pointing to the daily OPRESSION that 250 million Dalits face at the hands of Hindu Majority.

    You are majorly in denial about that.

    This denial manifests itself on you EXCLUSIVELY focusing on Hindu/Muslim issues and not on Hindu/Dalit issues.

    The moment some one mentions that you label them anti Hindu, Pakistani, Jehadi etc.

    Vinod ahs pointed this to you on more than one occasion, that you toe the RSS tactics and strategy here.

    He is absolutely right, you are an Internet Hindu,

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Ravi,

    till the moment all others here disabused you of the falsehood of your imagination of 5000 dalit rapes, you passionately believed it and when the falsehood became untenable, you made an about turn and said, ” maine ye sab mazaak mein kaha thaa”.

    Since Vino Sharma has given you the certificate of not being communal and also not being a Pakistani, I understand your acute sense of gratefulness and the desire to return the compliment.

    But the others are not psedos here, nor are they naive to be taken in by these pseudo certificates.

    YOU ARE A HINDU BAITER AND A HINDU HATER. EVEN YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT NOW AND SAY “MAINE YEH SUB MAZAAK MEIN KAHAA THAA”

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Care to provide any Proof or like Butch casidy your hero, you shoot from the hip.

    Vindo also gave you the certificate of being a COMMUNAL and a Crypto Fascist.

    Quit being petty, you are harming yourself.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    5000 dalit rapes by caste Hindus is proof enough; or is it not enough?
    Particularly when you issue disclaimers like ” maine aisa tho nahin kahaa thaa”

    If Vinod Sharma’s cerificates about your nationality and secularity have not worked their magic on others, how can his certificates about my being communal caste their evil spell on me?

    Ravi Reply:

    No it is not

  • shan

    Gopi Thomas professing to be decsended from St Thomas (all keralites say the same ,though some reactionaries think MOST OF THEM ARE CONVERT like rest of Indian christians) but is more hindu than hindu.More RSS than mohan bhagawat.It is preposterous to suggest Muslims have been given sops , on the contrary POOR MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN COMPLETETLY FORGOTTEN, yet they would have been better off if they renmained SC/ST. There is no reservation for muslims , they occupy 2% of Govt Jobs . yet !9% of the population .Probably 0.5% in Army , yet sikhs are my guess 12% in the army with 2% of the population. As one noted muslim academic said with despair, only places where muslims outnumber and dominate is in UNDERWORLD and PROSTITUTION

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you think haj subsidy is not an obvious and crude sop? Particularly when the Koran injuncts Muslims to visit the Holy places by spending their own money?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    What are your view on Subsidy for Amarnath yatra

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    It is a foolishly balancing pseudo secular ritual.

    By the way, Hindus have no injunction of not accepting state assistance to perform the yatra. If you were a Hindu (as you claim), you would have known that there is a belief that one should perform yatras by actually begging for alms from good hearted non-yatris.

    If you want to know, thousands of Hindus perform Shabarimalai yatra by collecting money by begging on the streets.

    Ravi Reply:

    If you say so…Excuses excuses

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shan-
    St Thomas with him brought only veryfw men. So, all Christians of Kerala (and other parts) are converts. In Kerala’s case the conversion happened 2000 years ago, and in its first hundreds of years most ofthe converted were the upper strata of society, landed and higher caste, not suppressed under caste rules i(f there were at that time) in the central and southern parts of kerala.

    Nobody denies there is need for upliftment, focused program etc. Macro statistics while true are also misleading. 50% of Muslims in India live in th three poorest states (UP, Bihar, West Bengal). 50% of illiterates in the country live in those states plus MP. Majority of Muslim population is concentarted in few districts in the high Muslim population states -like Moradabad, Bijnur, Bhagapet, Balrampur, Murshidaabd, Parganas, Brubrum, Nalia etc.. This is where focused development has to happen; for states like Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Krnataka etc the Muslim educational and income level achievemet is not significantly different from others in those states. So when you talk about 2% only etc… it just does not make any sense to many in many other states.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Gopi Thomas , i keep emphasing ,BEWARE OF THE NET , any porkys and you will be caught .
    i had just enough time for karnataka , The northern karnataka has a poverty rate of 40%(yes you are reading it correct) Infosys and Wipro doesn’t provide employment to sivaramma or whatever.
    here is a quote from the economic survey of karnataka
    Deprived groups have exhibited lower levels of living in economic terms including
    levels of consumption. This is evident from the figure below that breaks down the
    Monthly per capita expenditure of the state by urban and rural social groups. It is
    evident that the extent of deprivation of SC/STs, OBCs and Muslims is acute in the
    state.
    http://www.karunadu.gov.in/SPB/Reports/…/Planning%20Department.pd
    some more
    Bangalore is also home to nearly one million Muslims. While some are computer programmers, rickshaw drivers or models, others are street sweepers or beggars.
    http://www.30-days.net/muslims/muslims-in/asia-south…/india-karnataka

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you have revealed a wonderful news. The one million Muslims of Bangalore are just like us, the rest. It means they have become indistinguishable from others in economic terms. In fact there are hundreds of Muslim young men and women who are working for Infosys, Wipro, Mindtree,IBM and so many other IT companies.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shan-

    You can drag pockets of Karnataka to UP or your state west bengal level ..The fact remains that Karnataka has a per capita daily income of 160 RS, in the top 3 in india.

    I advise you travel through Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Karnataka : the nn travel through West bengal, UP, Bihar..then compare people to people and Muslims to Muslims…
    (in fact I do not know why we have to compare Muslims to muslims; if UP , bihar, and WB economy does well, all should do well in those states unless there is a deliberate plan to hold Muslims back in those states)–

  • Ashish

    @Pankaj,
    Re’ full name of Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar-
    it was actually Ishwar Chandra Bandyopadhyaya (Banerjee in today’s anglicised version)..
    The Sharma is short for Devasharma (all Brahmins) can use it- in lieu of usinjg the actual surname. In fact, while getting married, or performing last rites of your parents- when you recite your name, you will have to say Devasharmanah
    Vidyasagar is the title awarded by Sanskrit college from where he graduated.
    Interesting that the most lasting social reforms of 19th century of the Hindu society was spearheaded by a poor brahmin educated in Sanskrit and well versed in scriptures hailing from a village in Midnapore.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Is that not good.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Ravi,
    the post got its desired response – the usual verbal diarrhoea from Shan :)

    Some rich kids called themselves Young Bengal, spoke English, ate beef, drank alcohol – all in the name of “social reform”- and their high point of achievement was conversion to the Christian faith.
    Lasting contribution to Bengal/ India- zero. Contribution to social reform- sub-zero.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish , Bramhins have heralded lot of changes , for it was easy for them to do , being bramhin your words will count , being harijan if you speak about reform , you will be beaten to death.
    Interestingly LOT of non bramhin also contributed to what is known as bengal renaissance.
    my feeling is Britishers made education accesible to all , thus every caste could participate.
    Also Derozio and Young Bengal wouldn’t stand for any kind of caste orthodoxy ,when there motto was to expunge hinduism of its putrid contents , brick by brick. Thus many bramhins converted to Christianity in the early years , the famous one being reverand krishno mohan Banerjee
    This is what young bengal did

    “The principles and practices of Hindu religion were openly ridiculed and condemned, and angry disputes were held on moral subjets; the sentiments of Hume had been widely diffused and warmly patronised.” [5] The accusation of being irreligious is not entirely correct. The Derozian aim was in truth “to summon Hindusim to the bar of reason.”

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shan-

    You are right that Brahmins could easily form/lead reform movement compared to others when mobility and actions were restricted in those times.

    However, there were people from lower caste and other strata who rose to question, organize etc against the prevailing social systems.

    There were two prominent lower caste social reformers (one was also a spiritul Guru) in Kerala in late 1800-early 1900. Ayyankali, a Pulaya (Dalit) organized a successful movement in getting many “anti-dalit” customs removed, culminating in the “temple entry proclamation” by the King of Travancore in 1930s long before temples were opened to Dalits anywhere else in the country.

    Sree Narayana Guru, another reformer and a mystic/Guru spread the “one caste, one religion, one god” movement; was primarily responsible for the upliftment of ezhava commuity, the most powerful and richest among Hindu communities of kerala today.

    Both of these great men restricted thir work to Travancore/Malabar; Narayana Guru did somework in Tamil Nadu.

    Mata Amrithananda Mayi, a reformer, hugging swamini with millions of high/low followers all over the world, is a woman from he lower “fishermen” community.

    So, reformers and leaders, like anything else is a “normal” distribution (statistically). Howeve, you are right that in 1800 s and early 1900s others will face issues in organizing wile Brahmins could do it easily

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Ashish , he may have been a professor in sanskrit BUT KNEW ENGLISH WELL , else how did he write Branthibilas (made into bollywood film twice , do doney char and another one i cant remember)
    a bengali rendering of COMEDY OF ERRORS

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    Is it Angoor?

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ashish;
    yes, I was not aware that he did not write the name sharma. I also did not know that he was Bandopadhyay. Most of the reforms have come from THINKING and FEELING people, mostly from upper castes (Not only brahmins). However, contributions from so called lower castes, is significant too.

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    Battling Terror , finding the culprits of the Bomb blasts and grieving for the dead and injured in Mumbai may be the top priority for the country.But for the Congress party the topmost worry is how to win the next election in UP, so Digvijay Singh saw an opportunity , in the bomb blasts to give a boost to his efforts to emerge as the ” Darling of the Muslims” . Now whatever he says has the full backing of the Congress Party and the family which runs it ,after all UP has a high concentration of Muslims in many constituencies.
    The elections in UP are going to make or break not just the political aspirations of that silly , Rahul Gandhi but also this govt, if it all survives that long. So the desperation. It would be interesting to watch Mulayam Singh”s countermoves, “the original darling” of the most organized vote bank.
    In other words , the country , the victims , efforts to strenghthen internal security and fight terror, setback to the country”s foreign policy can all wait but the poltical imperatives of the Congress Party cannot wait.
    In the meanwhile Mumbai and the country may wait for the next attack. Nothing shall change till the time a VIP or his kith and kin lose their lives or limbs.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Praveen saxenaji,

    your mention about Mulayam Singh’s politics is apt. After he aligned with Kalyan Singh. he has lost his political capital as the saviour of the Muslims and also the self-awarded title “Maulana”. It is this title that Digvinash Singh is attempting to usurp or snatch. But, as others have pointed out here rather tellingly, this Digvinash is spelling the doom of the doomed party with his communal politics and Hindu bashing.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Shenoy Saab

    It is not going to be easy. Mulayam , BSP, Congress and the sundry others like Ajit Singh would all be working out their strategies. But it has been seen that this vote-bank decides about its support just before voting . Congress may consider throwing up Salman Khurshid as its CM candidate or Beni Prasad Verma. but will they have the full support of Pramod Tiwari ot Rita Bahugana ?

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    SHAN SHAN SHAN
    First you actually go orgasmic when a white man chains himself up in Ghana to say sorry for slave trade.
    Then when Dr Pankaj and Dr Mishraji, your seniors, and certainly far more academically accomplished than u, give you a very public dressing down, you respond FOR THE 1000th time with some praise from some casidy- IS THERE NO LIMIT TO YOUR WHITE BOOT LICKING.
    As Mishraji said and i completely agree having lived 40 years in Britain, the gora has nothing but contempt for the brown sahibs like you who quote Nirad Chowdhry as if it were bible.

    read this- I am a proud labour supporter despite being a millionaire- and these goras line up for invites to my Baisakhi and Diwali parties- where my whole family dresses up in Indian clothes- and half the goras do too !!!

    so fade away you pathetic spineless white boot licker- there is a bad smell about u- AND IF U ABUSE OTHERS THEN EXPECT SOME- only repeating wot others said about you before- dhobi ka kuttar, na ghar da , na ghaat da

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shan- 10 years ago we had Charanjit Gill come over with his Alaap band for the Diwali party- Avtar Lit covered it for Sunrise radio- and you should have seen Robin Cook eating makke di roti and doing bhangra later

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    That chiranjit gill is as familiar to me as a singer from TIMBAKTU.As for sunrise radio , Indian and US bloggers would do well with this bit of information.I beleive the propreitor is a sikh geezer, but for these people all indians are perceived in a bad light by the ordinary brits
    here is a cut and paste from the paper The Telegraph of UK
    The Conservative leader – who unveils plans for the party’s new online soapbox for voters today – faced embarrassment after it emerged that Tony Lit, the Tory candidate in Thursday’s Ealing Southall by-election, had attended a Labour fund-raising event last month.

    Mr Lit, 34, a flamboyant Sikh businessman, and his wife Mandy even posed for a photograph with Tony Blair. At the time, Mr Lit was the managing director of Sunrise Radio, which paid £4,800 for a table at the exclusive function for Asian businessmen.

    The disclosure came as two new polls underlined how Labour was benefiting from the “Brown bounce”, with the party opening up a seven-point lead over the Conservatives – its biggest in two years.

    Mr Cameron insisted last night that he would not be distracted by short-term shifts in public opinion.
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    [what's this]

    Tory officials will be worried to see Labour hit the vital 40 per cent mark in yesterday’s ICM poll for The Sunday Telegraph. The poll put the Tories on 33 per cent and the Liberal Democrats on 19.

    In a separate ICM poll for the News of the World, Labour was on 35 per cent, with the Tories trailing on 28 per cent. Asked which party was best equipped to run the country, 53 per cent said Labour under Mr Brown, while only 27 per cent opted for Mr Cameron’s Tories.

    The Tories’ high hopes for Thursday’s by-election in Ealing Southall suffered a knock following the disclosure of Mr Lit’s attendance at the Labour fund-raiser.

    Mr Lit, who joined the Conservative party only a few days before being unveiled as its candidate, tried to brush aside the controversy yesterday.

    “As a businessman I did indeed attend this event for the Asian business community. But like many British Asians I feel the Labour Government does not have the answers to the challenges that currently face the country,” he said.

    Tory officials also played down the story and said the real story of the by-election had been how Mr Lit’s energetic campaign had persuaded five Labour councillors to defect to the Conservatives.

    Joan Ryan, the Labour Party vice-chairman who is running the by-election campaign, said: “David Cameron’s personal intervention to overrule local Tories and appoint a candidate has totally backfired.”

    Lord Rennard, the Liberal Democrat chief executive, said the disclosure about Mr Lit was a big blow to the Tory campaign. “One has to wonder just what questions were asked before the Conservatives invited Mr Lit to become ‘David Cameron’s Conservative candidate’,” he said

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    I think this Butch Cassidy is a creation of the fertile brain of this Shaan Nirad Babu after he saw the cow boy film (cow again?) of the same name and liked the name Cassidy.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @balwinder sandhu ,NO WONDER RAVI CALLED YOU A CONGENITAL MORON , A CHALLA SIKH(whatever the last accolade means)
    You lived in UK for 40yrs , cant do without sikh culture ,refer to the britishers as GORA like referring to nigerian blokes as Negro.WOULD YOU NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FILL YOUR FAT TUM WITH KOSHER SIKH CULTURE in gurdaspur ,or amritsar or bhatinda .
    You are a d ic k head, same like the jihadist OR THAT SOMALI REFUGEE caught making bomb in Birmingham.Live in Uk , feed in uk ,cheap daru in uk , free heart transplant from a white man ’s heart in uk
    YET jihad jihad jihad IN YOUR CASE GORA GORA GORA
    Knowing your attention span ,let me spare you the trouble of scrolling upwards
    Communal politics, then, constituted the third layer of the Amritsar onion. Tohra’s need to sustain the fictions of the Sikh Right explains the SGPC’s obsequious handling of the Queen’s visit. Religious workers had been assembled to shout slogans of “Queen Zindabad”, as Tohra and Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal offered gifts to the imperial visitor. Elizabeth and Philip remained seated as the dignitaries gifted them a gold-plated model of the temple, sponsored by a Birmingham-based religious group, and an ornamental sword. Both Badal and Tohra bent over in a hilariously low bow when the still-seated Queen gave them a flower vase each.
    http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1422/14220460.htm

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Tora, Tora, Tora,

    Blah, Blah, Blah…….

    And Prabhat, your friend, says people have moved on!

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R

    Rajeev was always right about these Indians living in London. Always braging about themselves.
    Shan started it and will never stop. Then Dr. Mishra talking about his invites to House of Lords
    and other so called prestigious clubs. And now we have self proclaimed millionaire who invites
    Robin Cook and few goras at his house.

    LAGTKA HAI LONDON KE PAANI MEIN KUCH HAI.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @MohanR ,rajeev doesn’t live in INDIA at present to my knowledge ,he lives in USA which is also an overwhelming gora country ,as does pankaj , rajiv , and others. i am an Indian citizen others are NOT

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    But, dear Mohanji, they don’t brag about their Indian passport the way Shaan Nirad Babu does; nor do they indulge in the kind of gora-a.ss-lixxing like this modern version of Nirad Babu does so shamelessly. The other “Englishmen” you have mentioned are proud Indians in thought and deed. I hope you realise that.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Mr. Shenoy,

    I have always respected their views Comments by. Bawinderji most of the times brings smile to my face.
    . But this was slightly getting out of hand , dropping names, inviting few goras,
    getting ivitations at house of lords.

    Cant write more have to go for lunch wife is waiting . But I sincerely hope that
    self promoting should stop .

  • Mohan R

    Shan,

    I am not a regular contributor to this blog but I enjoy reading the postings of other blogers.
    I have always admired you for the vast knowledge you have on many subjects. But what is
    the use of such knowledge when you cannot even respect another human being. If anybody
    does not agree with your views you immidiately start abusing that person. The knowledge
    you have has not really taught you any humility.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @MohanR , being of a certain vocation I CANNOT STAND HYPOCRISY AND FALSEHOOD, would cost someone’s life if I practised that art.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dear Mohan R
    NAME DROPPING- Guilty as charged- somehow SHAN has the habit of egtting under one’;s skin. I hope you will listen to Shenoy’s endorsement above- “”"The other “Englishmen” you have mentioned are proud Indians in thought and deed. I hope you realise that. “”"

    The point I was trying to make is that the English themselves have the greatest scorn for the anglo=phile bootlickers. Shan indulges in name calling, and that raises my bp. Moreover, this TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE WHITE SKIN WORSHIPPING by 1% of the Indians, is a trait that deeply embarrases us Indians.
    When I spoke abt the party I was boasting about the STRENGTH OF THE WHOLE INDIAN COMMUNITY, not my own, that we get the biggest names in UK at our functions which benefits our country and our community.
    THE PARTY WITH ALAAP AND ROBIN COOK WAS IN FACT AT THE FAMOUS ‘CLAY OVEN, and not at my gharib khana.
    Mohan come to London as my guest and see the proud image we Indians have created for ourselves-
    puny bongs in pin stripes quoting Marlowe and smoking a cigar are however excluded from these parties hehe

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    what embarrases the INDIAN passport holders like me is the brits generalise and we are caught by default.EACH AND EVERY CROOKERY IN UK , be it illegal immigrant smuggling , drug peddling ,
    defrauding the social security dept IT IS ALWAYS A BAINS, DHILLON ,KALRA , BHATTI
    thus brits think all Indians are crooks .
    A piece by piece evidence will be provided in coming hours.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    what is touching is the total isolation of SHAN on this blog. He used to abuse tajender and ravi with filthy gaalis before- last 3 months he has been reduecd to sucking up to them

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    if Shaan Nirad Babu compulsively overdoes his “Englishness” and calls all the other bloggers as idiot Hindustanis, I am glad that you are responding in kind and in equal measure even if it means overdoing your Indianness a little bit. If you have something by way of achievement (a lot, in fact) for the duration of your stay in UK, I would say you have every right to flaunt it.

    [Reply]

  • Raju Kurien

    Ravi-

    You raise all non-sense ( Devdasi, Sati etc) and sense (Dalit) whenever anybody brings up Muslim issues.

    The discussion, most of the time ., is not about atrocities committed against (if there are) Muslims. The discussion most of the time is about the atrocities (real or perceived) Muslims are committing. There is no comparison or attitude to dalit issue here because Dalits do not commit simialr atrocities and do not harm the country.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    All

    A couple of days ago I made a statement – in anger – about 5000 Dalit Rapes. It started an angry debate mostly focused on trying to debunk the figure of 5000 and replace it with the notion that proportionally Dalit rapes are broadly in line with all rapes.
    No one contradicted the main point just the Statistics.

    B.V.Shenoy supported by Vijay and Rajiv, concluded from my posts that I was an anti Hindu and my motivation was to damage the Hindu religion. Nothing could be further from the truth and I was not alone in there.

    However, here is a more balanced article from today’s BBC.

    18 July 2011 Last updated at 00:16

    All

    A couple of days ago I made a statement – in anger – about 5000 Dalit Rapes. It started an angry debate mostly focused on trying to debunk the figure of 5000 and replace it with the notion that proportionally Dalit rapes are broadly in line with all rapes.
    No one contradicted the main point just the Statistics.

    B.V.Shenoy supported by Vijay and Rajiv, concluded from my posts that I was an anti Hindu and my motivation was to damage the Hindu religion. Nothing could be further from the truth and I was not alone in there.

    However, here is a more balanced article from today’s BBC.

    ___________________________________________________________

    18 July 2011 Last updated at 00:16

    Rape and murder in Uttar Pradesh

    A spate of exceptionally brutal rapes in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh has shocked India. Many of the victims were young girls. The BBC’s Geeta Pandey reports from Lucknow.

    For Sarika, 16, it was like any other day when she went out to the fields for her evening ablutions with her friend Chhaya.

    It was a cold February evening and it was pitch dark. “I was feeling a little scared so I wanted to get back quickly,” she tells me.

    On the way back, she says, she was attacked by Shivam and three other men from the village.

    “Shivam grabbed my hand and asked me to marry him. I said: ‘No, how can I marry you? We live in the same village, you are like my brother.’ I kicked him and tried to run away.

    “With the help of his friends, he dragged me to a secluded area and began to assault me with knives and axes. I was conscious for some time, but once they cut me on my head and neck, I fainted. When I became conscious, I was in hospital.”

    Sarika shows me her injuries – a fist-size wound on her scalp, her jaw which has been sewn together, her right hand which had to be re-attached, her right earlobe from where big chunks are missing, and long scars on her arms.

    Shivam has been arrested, but the others are still free. One told the BBC he had been wrongly accused.

    A terrified Sarika and her family have abandoned their home and land in Fatehpur district’s Udrauli village to stay with relatives in another village nearly 45km (30 miles) away.

    ‘Crimes escalating’

    The assault on Sarika is one among the hundreds of rapes and attempted rapes this year in the state.

    “It’s a very difficult situation here,” says Roop Rekha Verma of Sajhi Duniya (Shared World), a Lucknow-based organisation which works with women.

    “There is a lot of violence: Crimes are escalating; gender problems are increasing; girls are being attacked, both in rural and urban areas,” she says.

    Uttar Pradesh is India’s most populous state with 200 million people. It is also home to a staggering number of poor – official statistics show more than 60 million people here live on less than $1.25 (75p) a day .

    Poverty also makes a community more vulnerable. Many victims were raped or assaulted when they went to the fields because, like millions of Indians, they have no access to toilets at home.

    Uttar Pradesh has always had a high rate of crime, but it is the viciousness of the recent attacks that has stunned people most.

    “These cases are so brutal that we wouldn’t have believed that they could happen – we thought such things could happen only in novels and films,” Mrs Verma says.

    SR Darapuri, vice-president of the People’s Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) in Uttar Pradesh, says most of the rape victims are poor women and girls in remote villages. Many, he says, are low-caste Dalits (formerly known as “untouchables”).

    “I analysed the rape figures for 2007 and I found that 90% of victims were Dalits and 85% of Dalit rape victims were underage girls,” he says.

    “It is well known that until not very long ago, in certain areas of the state’s southern Bundelkhand region, new brides of Dalit farmhands had to sleep with their rich, high-caste landowners on their wedding night.”

    Mr Darapuri says the practice no longer exists – but Dalit women and girls remain vulnerable to predators.

    Even though Uttar Pradesh’s Chief Minister, Kumari Mayawati, is a Dalit woman and caste discrimination has long been outlawed, campaigners say the state’s largely patriarchal society still uses feudal structures to ensure that women remain marginalised and oppressed.

    Election issue

    Campaigners say another common theme in these rape cases is that most of the attackers are people with money and often political influence too.

    The recent rape cases – and press coverage – have put the state administration under pressure. The timing is crucial – state elections are due in a few months.

    Earlier this year, Rahul Gandhi, an MP for the Congress Party which is in opposition in Uttar Pradesh, visited Sarika and her family and vowed to get them justice.

    Last week, he visited the family of 14-year-old girl Sonam, who was allegedly raped and murdered by the police inside a police station.

    Party leaders say crimes against women will be a major issue in the polls.

    “There’s a huge crisis of confidence: The general perception is that women are most insecure here,” state Congress leader Rita Bahuguna Joshi told the BBC.

    Mrs Joshi is appalled that Ms Mayawati has not visited any of the victims or their families. “She should have gone to some of the places where these crimes took place. She should have visited the victims. The least a woman leader can do is express genuine sympathy.”

    ‘Taboo’

    Mrs Joshi says “at the moment, Uttar Pradesh is one of the worst places to be a woman”.

    Her claim is borne out by official statistics. According to National Crime Records Bureau figures for 2009, 1,759 women were raped in the state. That is almost five rapes a day.

    Officials, however, say that is not bad for a population of 200 million.

    “We are the largest state in terms of population, but if you take the percentage of rapes, we are number 28th in the country. The rape rate of Uttar Pradesh is just 0.9%,” Inspector General of Police GP Sharma told the BBC.

    The statement has incensed activists.

    They say statistics do not reveal the real picture and only a tiny fraction of the crimes are reported and registered. In traditional Indian society, virginity before marriage is cherished and rape carries great stigma.

    “In society, there are taboos about making a complaint, a woman going to a police station, about a woman talking about her rape,” Mrs Verma says.

    Mr Darapuri, who is a retired police officer, says the police also keep the figures down.

    “The police do not want to register cases because they have been told by their political bosses to keep the crime figures low.”

    For every case that gets registered, he says, at least nine go unrecorded.

    “The official statistics released by the National Crime Records Bureau are just the tip of the iceberg. I get daily calls about atrocities, including rapes, and in a majority of cases, police do not register them.”

    Mr Sharma admits that under-reporting of crime is a problem, but insists the government is working to address it.

    “We have taken up the issue of training of policemen, we are working on their gender sensitisation so that they are more responsive to women. The state has 200,000 policemen; we have started new recruitment to double their numbers.”

    Meanwhile, Chief Minister Mayawati has announced a month-long campaign focusing on crimes against women.

    She has promised swifter convictions in rape cases and says she will tour the state in August to reassure women they are safe under her rule.

    But Sarika says Ms Mayawati’s words mean little to her until all her attackers are caught and punished.

    “I want them to be caught. The way they have ruined my life, I want their lives ruined as well.

    “I want the death penalty for them so that people realise what will happen to them if they commit a similar crime. People should be made afraid. Otherwise, they will do what was done to me.”

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    This is a huge bomb, bigger than Bhutto’s Islamic bomb and if it explodes, if and when it explodes, it might kill all the five thousand upper caste Hindus who daily rape at least 5000 dalit women!

    In fact it is AS BIG AS , IF NOT BIGGER THAN, RAHUL AMUL BABY’S BABY BOMB OF NOIDA WHERE HUGE GRAVES, MEASURING 70′X70′ WERE FOUND BY RAHUL BABY AND DIGVINASH SINGH, CONTAINING DEAD BODIES OF MORE THAN 100 DALIT MEN AND WOMEN AND ALSO CHILDREN, THE WOMEN HAVING BEEN RAPED BEFORE BEING SLAUGHTERED.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    It is more than 5000.

    It is happening today, and you are not concerned about this. You rather draw attention EXCLUSIVELY to Muslim Bombs.

    You know why u do that.

    I rest my case.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi– what is your point?

    How many rapes happen in a day in UK? definitely more than 5.

    UP is 2/3rd population of US, it is poor, and it still has only 5 rapes a day — even a single rape is too much, but let us look at all the problems proportionately. How many rapes US has a day? And why are not you secularists and HR advocates jumping on UP?

    And if I were the BBC president, i would have fired the reporter for the Sarika case. She does not say she was raped; nowhere in the case it says she was raped. She was dragged and injured by three men; one, Shivam, has been arrested. is this the epitome of a ‘brutality” we can bring out? I knew Rahul did not have much in his head; if he chose “sarika” as the “example” of atrocity and state negligence, his whole head is empty.

    And Ravi, you highlighted the practice that in certain parts of UP the Zamindar gets to taste the lower class girl before hert wedding night. But you did not highlight the retired police officer’s statem,ent that the practice is long gone.

    So for you, you have another one to add to your list of the troubling contemporary Indian prob;lems that need all the attention (with resources moved away from fighting against Islamic terrorism) – Devdasi, Sati, Manasmriti, and now the local landlord right to breakthe Dalit (or landless) girl s virginity.

    One way to look at India is how far India will be better off (on various metrics base) if it did not have UP and Bihar. So the issue is the economic upliftment of those two states, taking its per capita income from $1.25 to a much higher number. Poverty breeds all other issues.

    Coming to your 5000 rapes of dalits a day – UP has a total 5 rapes a day.. Assuming all of them are Dalits, and since UP leads in rapes, we cannot have 5000, not 500, not 100, not 50 a day .. While it is bad, I bet we do better on this metrics compared to your adopted country or the other beacon of freedom and equality, USA.

    Get a life; dont just go on looking for atrocities against Dalits

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju Kurien

    To you personaly I wish to make no point, because there is no point doing it.

    I have a life, the following no longer do:

    20 June – Salia, 11, is raped and killed on her way back from school. A 23-year-old villager is arrested and confesses

    19 June – A 35-year-old woman is gang-raped by five men inside her home. Afraid she will identify them, the men burn her to death

    17 June – A 14-year-old girl is stabbed in the eye by her two attackers when she resists their attempts to rape her

    10 June – Sonam, 14, is raped and murdered, allegedly by police. Her body is found hanging inside a police station

    5 February – 16-year-old Sarika’s ears are cut and one hand cut off when she resists her attackers

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    And Prabhat only this morning gave a big ‘certificate’ to Ravi for his ’small posts’, having ‘moved on’ and becoming secular!

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    ravi– I have to admit that I still dont get it–

    So, from feb through June, 4 girls/women in an age range of 11 – 35 were raped by men, and one was attacked by men.

    It is bad. Quite bad.

    Sh— happens. All the culprits should be arrested and tried and punished. Left to me I will have death sentence for anybody raping a minor , the 20 June case Salia.

    Bad crimes, one quite heinous; but are they so abnormal in a place of 200 million people, 2/3 of USA population in 1/6 of its landmass living on $1.25 per day?

    Or are you saying that before anybody can criticize Muslims, we better ensure there is no single rape in this country?

    Ravi Reply:

    Raju

    You asked a serious question in the right tone.

    So I will respond. However, none of this should be new to you. It is just you don’t like me saying it.

    I think Islamic Terrorism is a big issue, it is also an urgent issue. We should, and we do, discuss it here. But it is not the only issue.

    It is wrong to confuse Islamic Fundamentalists, with ALL Muslims in general, and Indian Muslims in particular.

    If we want an India, better than we presently have, then we have to discuss ALL issues not just Islamic Terrorism. We have to grapple with the issue of “Tyranny of Majority” which spawns, not only spectacular violence but also low intensity and perpetual violence which specially afflicts our dalit population.

    Terrorism felt by Mumbikars is eminently understandable, but we also need to recognise, the caste terrorism, in the shape of, “you can not use this well, you can not come into this temple, you can not walk in the front of my house, etc” is a serious form of terrorism.

    You may wish to focus on Islamic Terrorism; to me there are other forms of terrorisms too, in which we Hindus are majorly implicated. I want to widen the topics we discuss.

    If this makes me anti Hindu, then so be it.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Ravi-
    Nobody criticized you as anti-Hindu.. That is your imagination– You have been anti_India, and may be too much pro-Muslim; trying to decipher the nuances in Islamic terrorism (which one shouldd, but we mortals tend to generalize)
    Youa re right that not all Muslims are terrorists or fundamentalists etc.. Unfortunately, unless the TV screes and news change, we see muslims committing terrorism all over the world (of course, some Muslims; not all Muslims)

    You are in your imaginary world of the tyranny of the majority – each region , state is different. I know for a fact that in my state the majority neither ha sthe political lever, nor the economic lever. The present and immediate and imminent problem , as being brought out in the Mumbai investigation, is the Islamic terrorism. That does not mean Dalits live shave to be imptroved etc. Those are constant processes, all five year plans have spent enormous amounts of money on their development. , no single person in india says Dalits and other downtrodden should not be given opportunity. They have siezed political power in manys tates; it is only a question of time when we will have economically haves and havenot castes. Cycles start as our great Lord said.

    The usage of wells, temples etc should be for all if they are public properties (in case of temples for all hindus). Denying the use by a local goonda or goondas do not raise to the level of carnage of Mumbai 11/26 or the recent one. Of course it is bad; as we speak, I am sure one well is being open for all in that village..

    Fortunately it is only 1% of the wells, or 1% of the temples that still has issues..In time they will be resolved.

    To me the bigger terrorism, more than the “caste” terrorism you imply (and equate to Islamic terrorism), is the Government negligence and corruption tyerrorism. As I indicated elsewhere, the train accident is an act of government terrorism — causing 70 people death because of negligence in maintenance. A Muslim school or agirls school not opening in Moorshidabad because bureaucrats stole the money is an act of terrorism that wipes off their future. Temples are dimes and dozens, they can go to one in the next village. Or they can have atemple in their house..

    We have enough problems; no need to imagine and worry about the tyranny of the majority. Rather than tyranny of the majority, as Gopi indicated, I am afraid we are moving to the trigger point to the fury of the mahority a ka the Sri Lankan explosion.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    RAJU, brilliant. I said before- when we want to discuss Islamic terrorism- PL RAVI DO NOT DISTRACT AND SAY DUNG BEETLES IN NAMIBIA IN DANGER.
    Look into my eyes and say – muslim terrorists have everyone from USA, Europe and India by the balls.
    There said it, good. Accept it. We are not going to gas you all. We want to help muslims. That is the first step the muslim quom have to take worldwide

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    POLITICISATION OR RAPE
    ————————————
    Last week I fired broadside that people were belittling and politicising death. Today some do same to rape.
    Rape is heinous, as bad as murder.
    Rape is common in India wherever there is poverty. In those areas murders and land grab and burgalaries are also common.
    A lot of Dalits live in these poor areas.
    ———————-
    AND YOU MR RAVI, SO CLEVER WITH WORDS, HAVE ADDED TO THIS POLITICISATION WITH RIDICULOUS CLAIM OF 5000 DALIT RAPES A DAY. YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR OBSESSIVE POLITICS (sangh bashing, hindus as bad as muslims) . Dont mind Pakistanis blogging here, but dont play politics with the rapes of my poor Indian sisters- you sicken me

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    yes, 18 million women raped in India every decade and NO PAKISTANI EVER RAPED A BANGLADESHI MUSLIM OR BANGLADESHI HINDU IN 1971
    Dear Mohan, you seem very educated sirji. Pl you tell me how does one spell-
    R E V I S I O N I S T

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    by mentioning rape by Pakistani soldiers of Bangladeshi women, you have committed blasphemy, and wait for your punishment from fake Ravi, the repository of all Muslim Male virtues.

    [Reply]

  • Javed

    What drivel blog !!

    even a lay person on street has more concrete opinions & some specific suggestions. because the party youare are blindly biased towards has a mental paralysis, so do you as a consequence.

    come out of your blind pro-congress tilt, stop being a lackey and open your mind. surely the world is more optimistic.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ everyone

    I dont think there is anything wrong when Balwinder mentioned his party and connections with highups in the British heirarchy.

    Just proves what I am saying. That you dont have to sell your dignity to become a migrant.

    Fine they may be a million thins arong in India. But they would also be a million things wrong in the west. So if you maintain your dignity… it only shows your own character :D

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @ Ravi

    I think you are obsessed with rape :D

    Arre koi rapist fantasy toh nahin… ??? :D

    Rape probably exiss in all societies. It can be at the top level where the French IMF chief tried to force himself on his maid. Or when Clinton used his position to sexually harass interns. Al Gore revealed himsef to a massage girl and threw away his towel…

    And Price Chrles was found in bed with his butler…. probably a case of using political power for the worng purposes.

    Lord Mountbatten used to run after Indian soldiers and get himself raped… don’t know if this qualifies as rape by India of the crown… while chacha Nehru was… well … he had an afair so no rape :D
    Though being virile with the unfeminine Edwina can also be called rape… :D

    But in Mountbatten’s case, do you think the poor Indians who were forced to make him happy would have done it had he not been a soclo politcal leader?? I think you should get Marxist and neo liberal historians to ANal-yse to rape Indians did of the viceroy…. :D

    By quoting a figure of four for six months, you have only exposed the hollowness of your claims and intention of trying to demoralise Indians. Now as I suggested you should wear a placard and expose the rapes for money happening in merry ol England…

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,
    Why are you wasting time on this fake? The muslims have used rape as a weapon in their history so they should be the last one to lectures others on rape.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    .:).

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Vijay Kumar , somebody of your biradari MAKING INDIA PROUD, MORE AND MORE AND MORE
    CASES WILL BE PRESENT.All of these great indians hail from the place where you hail from
    Racial equality chief charged with threatening behaviour

    * Comments (0)
    * Add to My Stories

    A leading racial equality campaigner was today charged with a public order offence following an incident outside Lord’s cricket ground.

    Gurbux Singh, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, was charged with threatening behaviour.

    His wife Siobhan received a formal caution but was not charged.

    The couple were arrested on July 13 and answered bail at Marylebone police station in London today.

    Singh, 51, of Winchmore Hill, north London, and his 40-year-old wife were arrested outside Lord’s after an England one-day international against India.

    He is alleged to have used threatening behaviour towards a police officer and was arrested under section 4 of the Public Order Act.

    Mrs Singh was arrested on suspicion of obstructing police in the same incident. Singh is due to appear at Horseferry Road magistrates court in central London on July 31.

    He faces a maximum sentence of six months in jail if convicted.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-129978/Racial-equality-chief-charged-threatening-behaviour.html#ixzz1SSsahQFL

    [Reply]

  • shan

    Actually Gurbux singh was DRUNK went to punch the police officer used foul language.FORGOT THIS IS NOT BHATINDA. he was SWIFTLY booted out from his 200k post.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Even Mohammad raped Jewish women captured during the raid. The rape is an instrument of suppression used in every society.
    Even today rapes are used to suppress lower castes in Pakistan (Mukhtaran Mai) both muslims and hindus.
    I frankly don’t understand why we are debating rape in dalit-upper caste context.

    Shan,
    You furiously support muslim right to preserve their identity so what is wrong if Balwinder wants to maintain his sikh identity in UK. Sikhs are not the only one who have used illegal routes to get into britain. In fact most of the mirpuris (from pakistan PoK) are known to use this method. At least Indian sikhs are making positive contribution in UK whereas muslims are hell bent on converting whole of UK and making it a desert country.
    You may have issues with Balwinder and Mishra but that should not make you align with terror sympathiser fake-sikh Ravi. You being a doctor should be able to see which direction you are heading to. Just a friendly advise.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    The story of Mukhtaran Mai, a low caste muslim who was gangraped by upper caste muslims just because they suspected her brother to have an affair with muslim upper caste women.
    There are such 5000+ unreported cases of rape in pakistan every day (this is for Ravi).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Ravi’s heroes Taliban executing 16 people in Islamic style…Halal…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14181938

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    RAVI- REPEAT
    yes, 18 million women raped in India every decade and NO PAKISTANI EVER RAPED A BANGLADESHI MUSLIM OR BANGLADESHI HINDU IN 1971
    Dear Mohan, you seem very educated sirji. Pl you tell me how does one spell-
    R E V I S I O N I S T

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dear Rajeev,
    It is not that SHAN has issues with me, EVERYONE HAS ISSUES WITH SHAN.
    The list of people who have admonished him or downright slammed him includes 95% of the bloggers here, including the most respected ones.
    SHAN also got banned from Gautam Chikerman’s column (where he used to blog obsesively) for discussing- hypothetically- Gautam’s daughter’s rape !!!!!!!
    One associates doctors with bedside manners, dignity and sobriety.
    Regards
    Balwinder Sandhu

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    and another thing, Rajeev, SHAN goes to bed with every jehadi sympathiser on the blog- be it Ravi or Bobby. The lst few months also saw great love between him and tajender – ramavtar

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Balwinder

    Can I request you to submit your next 2-3 posts on the subject of the post instead of Shan ! This might help the participants go back to the subject.

    You appear not be so obsessive with religious based discussions. So your meaningful posting on the subject may really help change the course of the debate.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    @ Prabhat,
    If you please press the older comments button you will see a long comments posted by me 3 hours ago titled- POLITICISATION OF RAPE. I am sorry that you missed it.
    If I may be so bold as to offer a suggestion to your good self- it would also be very nice if you could avoid going after Mr Shenoy repeatedly. I have disagreed with Shenoy saab a couple of times before and he was very civil about it.
    But you seem to be cyber hounding him, bullying him. Thank you

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Balwinder

    I will hate to hound anybody, leave aside Shenoy.

    If you think Shenoy is open and willing to listen to your advices, then urge him not to get personal with me and call me names. And I will be civil.

    He can disagree with me or matter of fact with anybody. But he must desist from calling names.

    I again urge you to dedicate your next 3 posts on the subject of the blog post and help change the course of the debate.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Let me be very frank-
    1. The group from UK for some unknown reasons gangs up against Shan and bully him. I have tried to decipher this but can not find any reason. Do you guys hold some personal grudge against him?
    2. The group from UK (including Shan) flaunts their money power, connections and profession to sound more influential. This doesn’t work on net.
    3. Shan’s response are mostly driven out of anger and are more retaliatory in nature. Thank god, he did not join Indian Army. If he ever had problems with fellow Indian officers, he would have crossed border and joined chinese/pakistanis against India. He can join any side just to win arguments. I never thought that he will join fake sikh pro-jehadi Ravi but he did.

    As far as Prabhat etc. are concerned, they are immature kids who have been hired by Vinod Sharma to keep debate balanced that is anti-congress views balanced by pro-congress views. Let us not worry about Bhaade ke Tattoos.

    [Reply]

    Mohan R Reply:

    Rajeev,

    “” As far as Prabhat etc. are concerned, they are immature kids who have been hired by Vinod Sharma to keep debate balanced that is anti-congress views balanced by pro-congress views. Let us not worry about Bhaade ke Tattoos “”

    Nice one. (:

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    What really fancied and tickled you ?

    Prabhat being called “Bhaade ke Tattoos” or immature kid ?

    [ I do not respond to Rajeev's comments because both of us have agreed to meet and talk it out in person sometime in future. ]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Prabhat,
    Just wondering, do you work in McDonalds or AICC office or for HT?

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Rajeev

    Let’s meet as promised. We will sort out for all times to come.

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Prabhat,
    I must know who to look for. Will you be mopping floor at McDonalds or AICC or HT? I have full respect for all kinds of labor.
    Don’t hesitate to ask me for any kind of help. Even I can rent you just like Vinod…Bhade ka Tattoo… :)

    Prabhat Reply:

    @Rajeev

    Come and meet on an appointed date and time when you are in India. You will not have problem finding me. I will make sure you meet the right person.

    And if you are quarter of a man that you think you are to be, remember all these barbs till the time we meet.

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Prabhat,
    “And if you are quarter of a man that you think you are to be, remember all these barbs till the time we meet.”

    Immature…I proved my point.

    I already proved that you are Bhade ka Tattoo…

    I’ll meet you and believe me you will lick my shoes.

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    I will wait for the day.

    Mohan R Reply:

    Prabhat,

    All of it fancied and tickled me as what Rajeev says is correct. I could not have said it
    in a better way. We all are surprised that why you keep on defending congress even
    after providing you regulary with many alegations/proofs of them being highly corrupt.
    Thats why the title of Bhaade ke Tattoos seems apt to me.

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Mohan

    I have said before and repeat again, I can live with corrupts but not communals.
    The corrupts can be changed or reformed, not communals.

  • vijay kumar

    Ravi and Shan should now see a 80’s film called “THE EVILS OF RAPE” starring Silk Smitha.

    I think they will find a lot of rapes happening there which they can add to thier list to report to the EU and BBC. Since the film was shown at 100 theatres and had 5 shows and had 5 rapes.

    So No of rapes as per “Evils of rape” = 100 X 5 X 5 = 2500 rapes daily !!! :D :D

    Wah Wah !! Ravi and Shan khush hua !! :D :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Where is that poem on monsoon with last stanza dedicated to Rahul and Digvijay ?

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Prabhat

    Monsoon is too precious a time and too romantic a season to be wasted on writing poetry about two selfish idiots who can destroy India to come to power. Yes they have something in common with the monsoon season… the croaking toads and the mosquitoes :D

    [Reply]

    Prabhat Reply:

    @ vijay

    I was genuinely looking forward to a good one and was curious how you would link them up !

  • vijay kumar

    :D :D ~~ EX EMPLOYEE HT AND DALLA OF DAHLAS– AMAR SINGH COERNERED~~ :D :D ~~

    Amar Singh — the world champion of dhalagiri– and now a pal of Digvinash and Yuvraj is cornered by the Supreme court in the cash for votes scam.

    Will the Congress bail out its pimp??? Will the HT give him some good reports??

    Let us guess…. ???

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vinodji ka lagontiya yaar Amar Singh phas gaya…ab Vinod ka kya hoga?

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    I dont think Amar Singh can be a langotiya of anyone– except who has money and power in his langot !!

    Till now Amar Singh survived on blackmail and muscle power.

    He punched Silencer Aiyar on the nose… and Aiyar as a chamcha saluted him ! :D

    Justice Sabharwal who was linked to the builder BPTP was fixed thru allotments of land to his sons in NOIDA. This justice Sabharwal was the same guy who demolished Delhi so that Mall owners could sell their empty spaces. It turned out the builder BPTP had loaned Sabharal’s sons 28 crores and also purchased property on Sikandra Road with Sbharal’s sons worht 300 crores.

    And BPTP is a builder whose managers boasted that Vadra, Rahul and haryana CM’s son had stakes in….

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,
    You are forgetting that Vinod teamed up with Amar and Diggi in Bhushan’s CD case. I am pretty sure Sharma will face the heat for associating with Dalla elements provided Sharma too doesn’t belong to the same biradari.

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    If Vinod Sharma has willingly played the fake CD game… well he falls down a bit in my eyes. After all we all want corruption to go from India.

    However if he has been fooled by Amar Singh… I would request him not to be so innocent further on…

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,
    I agree with you. According to me Vinod is not corrupt but foolish and arrogant with an oversized ego which has been pacified by Jhunjhuna from congress in the form of NMC post.

  • Mohan R

    Balwinderji,

    Sorry for replying you late. I was having my nice siesta. Yes I would like to meet and
    have drink with you and I would not mind few patialas as long as you can save me from
    your wife’s belans. I think I should not worry about those belans as I am sure those are for you only,
    I am not sure of when I will come to London – I was there in 1984 – but if not in London
    we can meet at my place in Dubai or Bombay.

    And sirji where my education is concerned I am just SSC pass – that is 11 standards in school -
    from a small place in Gujarat. I have never gone to college, but that is fine with me as I think I am
    doing alright in my life. And regarding this word R E V I S I O N I S T I have no idea what does this means I will have to google it .

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Mohan, I was just having dig at RAVI’s politicisation of rape, forget it

    [Reply]

  • Mohan R
  • ramesh

    to expect a any rational analysis of upa regimes failure from vinod sharma is a stupidity. he will be out the moment congress is criticized in congress -hindustan times.
    Vinod ji show some day a conscience if you are still left with any!

    [Reply]

  • anant

    Chess strictly comes under ‘leisure’ than ’sport’, but it has been clubbed with sports in India. We can say the same with pursuits like mountaineering, which is ‘adventure’ than sport.

    [Reply]

  • Syed

    Err, what do you want to say?

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/kanikadhupar Kanika Dhupar

    I am still skeptical to pick that book :(

    [Reply]

  • masha

    Hooo boy!! Talk about buying books that I know will suck but I buy anyway.. :( Mostly cos they’re part of a series and while the writing was tripe and the story rather flimsy, one still wants to know the happy ending.. :( Only book I could resist buying was the second Fifty Shades book, I left the first one (downloaded not bought) half way through because “YUCK!!!”.

    [Reply]

  • Mamutty chola

    The way the terrorists are targetting our cities at will,reflects failures of our intellegence machinaries -Both at state and central levels.
    There has not been a single terrorist attack in USA since 9/11,shows how effective are their intelligence operatives.Mind you, they are targets of multiple terror groups.
    We must engage US intelligence experts in training our officers .we must bench-mark their best practices.

    Also there is a need to evolve transparent based justice systems.we cannot attain long- term internal peace without justice to the aggrieved. Innocents citizens kept in our jails without trials must be freed.Terrorists have No religion. No religious scriptures, be it ,Quran, Bhagvat Geeta,, Bible, gurugarath Saheb,teaches hatreds towards others. INJUSTICE does .It is a wake up call for all Indians who love their motherland.

    [Reply]

  • Mano Sing

    GPI en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genuine_Progress_Indicator

    [Reply]

  • Abhi

    “High growths don’t pull people out of poverty.”
    It can, if some groups do not multiply much faster than others just to create a vote bank!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Actually Zia is saying that a puny ISLAMIC country like Bangladesh beats India in Human development index…never mind genocide on non-muslims especially hindus in Bangladesh.

    [Reply]

    Abu Ahmed Reply:

    India’s populations is huge – whatever and however much is distributed, it still falls short by a huge margin. Why, even Afghanistan fares better than us in some ways – those who manage to survive there eat better than most Indians! Now dont remark that the Afghans have treated Hindus worse than B’desh. Okay, look at Nepal, Thaliand, Phillipines, most of africa. Our people have a very big appetite for corruption and that eats away all the short-supply of goodies.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    That is why we need Modi who will take care of corruption.

    As far as Bangaldes is concerned, 20% of their population lives in India

    [Reply]

  • Abhishek Kumar

    nice
    information. Thank you for sharing it. Thanks Packers Movers

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Zia before you extoll the virtues of bangladesh vis a vis ISLAMIC model
    would you care to answer the following queries
    1. HOW MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE THERE IN BANGLADESH
    2. HOW MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE THERE IN YOUR NATIVE ASSAM
    3. HOW MUCH FOREIGN AID HAS BANGLADESH RECEIVED

    4. JUST ONE ENGINEERING PRODUCT OR PHARMA EXPORTED FROM BANGLADESH, LEAVING ASIDE SOFTWARE EXPORTS
    even bangladesh’s biggest export garments , the fabric is sourced from INDIA
    5. HOW MANY YEARS OF PEOPLE’S WILL (read DEMOCRACY) has bangladesh enjoyed

    NOW COMING TO INDIA
    1. SEND CONgress party packing for good

    .2 India needs REVOLUTION IN AGRICULTURE, fully mechanised agriculture with massive acreage by coalescing pattas , corporate farming, patta holders being share holders
    3. COMPULSORY LEGALLY BINDING EDUCATION TILL AGE 18, PARENTS FAILING TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL TO FACE JAIL LIKE IN UK
    THE MONEY TO COME FROM TAXATION AND FREEZING TO WAGES FOR TWO YEARS
    3.CRONY CAPITALISM A LA AMBANI TYPE BUFFETTED BY ZENOPHOBIA AND PROTECTIONISM NEEDS TO GO

    INDIA WILL BE CHANGED FOREVER

    2.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @Vinoo, perhaps it has escaped your attention , I had replied to you when you raided this question in Zia ’s previous blog on the down turn of indian economy. Anyway here you have it again

    inoo have you heard of any indian spying for pakistan hanging the
    portrait of jinnah in his home. same here , nirad dick head did not make
    any bones about his mesmerisation with the racist scum churchill and in
    his book “the continent of circe , he unashamedly claims to have
    redidcovered his european roots through his aryan ancestry. So there you
    have it. after reading Madhushree Mukherjee’s book i now rate nirad as a
    buffoon, then nirad moron was a history graduate , and madhushree is a
    phd in physics form newyork uni, and used to be on the editorial board
    of Scientific American. It is like comparing nirad ambassador car with
    madhushree porsche carrera
    As regards his getting a job after sarat bose was arrested, this was a job of a clerk, hardly a high ranking job. Do remember he came out 1st class first in BA history honours , but had exam phobia (my interpretation) so did not sit for MA. However he had studied French History in FRENCH , from original sources.
    I do not think he was a spy , HE HAD TO ENDURE MASSIVE HARDSHIP and he has recounted that in his book
    I do not come to the blog because of work pressure and have been doing a lot of travelling across europe. If interested let me know , I will relate my life enriching experiences

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    come to vindo sharma’s blog. Lot of people talk about your there

    [Reply]

    vijay ! Reply:

    Shan remember your passionate espousal of the “giant” called
    Nirad Chaudhary. I always told you he was a Brit agent out to tell INdia that you cold never beceome as good as the whites.

    Is it not correct now…?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A lot of happiness comes from ignorance. The people of North Korea are very happy because they are insulated form the rest of the world and they believe that their dictator is God. The suicde bombing youth of Pakistan go to jannat with a smile.

    Real happiness only comes when you can be rich, free and not bound by dctats of religious zombies.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    Musharraf Returns

    share

    this
    Sino-Pak naval cooperation reiterated

    US AND ISLAMOPHOBIA
    0 comments

    Posted by Ece Koc on Apr 9, 2013 in Interviews | 0 comments

    [Translate]

    Professor John Esposito

    PROF. JOHN ESPOSITO ON U.S. AND ISLAMOPHOBIA

    By Ece Koc

    Professor John Esposito, the outspoken inter-faith promoter
    was recently on A9 TV’s Building Bridges show. Esposito, offered his
    views on many subjects including US media’s way handling news about
    Islam, the ways to cope radicalism and the notorious Regensburg Speech
    of Pope.

    Esposito is a figure known for his strong views in favor of
    building ties with the Islamic world, especially after 9/11, when many
    people thought otherwise. From time to time, he became such a
    controversial figure, many people accused him of downplaying the threat
    of terrorism. He, however, seems unabated by all this criticism, and is
    gaining more and more popularity now. Esposito most recently appeared on
    A9 TV of Istanbul, a television channel known for its efforts to
    promote peace in the world. So when the hosts asked him about how Islam
    is covered in the mainstream US media, Esposito had lots to say:

    “…two-thirds of that will be about mainstream Judaism and
    Christianity, practices, relations, good news and then maybe one-third
    will deal with problems and issues, okay? The reverse is true in
    covering Islam and Muslims in general; that is a disproportionate amount
    deals with what I would call the explosive headline events, the
    conflict events. What you see is this kind of Islamophobic, or bias to
    Islam in regard to a religion, has become part of our mainstream
    politics; in other words, its mainstream politicians. And then there are
    your militant Christian Zionist preachers, many of which have
    megachurches or are televangelists who have large TV followings, or are
    talking heads in the media and again, politicians and others, so that
    not only impacts and affects, if you will, not only Muslims
    domestically, but it falso impacts American foreign policy.”

    He feels that the way most of the time Islam is portrayed is unfair,
    and anyone could have applied the same approach to Judaism and
    Christianity, too, if they wanted: “The way you feel about Muslims,
    the way you think about Muslims, if you don’t make the kind of
    distinctions that I’m talking about the vast majority of Muslims and
    Islamists, and Islam as a religion of peace, then you have a problem. It
    would be the same, analogously, if you say, “Look, if you look at the
    early history and down through the centuries, Christianity was not a
    religion of saints but a religion of warriors” and was often used to
    spread the religion, from the conquistadors to European imperialism, and
    even the logic of a good deal of American neo-colonialism in terms of
    Christians see as opening up the Muslim world to greater conversions,
    and if you take into consideration pedophilia and see Christianity or
    Roman Catholicism and see it through that, you would be seeing it
    through a very distorted lens.”

    Esposito also feels very strongly against Islamophobia and indeed he
    has been very frequently targeted himself by Islamophobists as well: “And
    I think the thing that you want to keep in mind too is that the
    situation gets ratcheted up exponentially because we have so many
    mean-spirited, right-wing Islamophobic websites; so for example, if an
    article appears criticizing me, in a matter of days that will be picked
    up and appear in a dozen different versions and appear in all these
    other websites, and your average American, many of them wind up looking
    at these websites. Many of them have titles, it’s not just the websites
    like “JihadWatch”, it’s the websites that have titles that seem nice and
    innocuous, websites like “American Thinker” “Family Security”, and so I
    think that’s what ratchets that up exponentially.”

    We are swimming against the tide

    Esposito also mentioned that especially after 9/11, the Islamophobists had the opportunity to cash in the fears of people:

    “On those websites, it is simply said in general that Muslims are a
    problem, that Muslims are a threat to security, that Islam is a
    problem. Therefore, if there’s an attack made, other websites pick this
    up because they all cross-fertilize themselves and over a ten-year
    period, over forty million dollars was given by acceptable foundations
    to these kind of websites and their creators and many of these folks are
    quoted as the terrorists affect them; the Norwegian terrorist, Breivik,
    quoted these folks extensively, and on the other hand, on page 66,
    there’s a page attacking me and my center for our work. So that’s where
    we’re at. The whole point is that you’re doing, what so many of us do,
    is very important because we are swimming against the tide, as it were,
    in terms of popular culture and a distorted conventional wisdom.”

    When asked about his views on how to combat radicalism, he had one answer: ‘education’. Esposito elaborates: “I
    think the first thing, the most important thing frankly is education.
    And also it becomes very important to get religious leaders on board.
    You know, one of the difficult thing, and here I have to be quite frank,
    I admire the way that religion and religious education and Islamic
    reform is being done by a number of Turks, both in government and
    non-government. The thing is, yes we can get to a point where we get
    very senior religious leaders, the real impact comes when those senior
    religious leaders make sure that the priests, rabbis and imams are
    trained in their religious schools to have that pluralistic, tolerant
    outlook because they are the people who impact the local communities.
    They impact the families of the people who are going to be parents, they
    impact the kids who are going to the mosques, synagogues and churches.
    All of this is very important.

    [Reply]

  • Faulitics

    Well, Zia has done something which he has never done before. That is NOT whine about Muslims being “victims”. But I am sure he will be back to his old communal game. This is just a respite.

    [Reply]

  • vijay !

    BUT WHY SHOULD U COMPARE US TO BANGLADESH?

    THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE

    VARIOUS Islamist groups in Bangladesh are demanding that a new anti-blasphemy law be formulated under which the death penalty can be awarded to those who defame Islam and the Prophet (PBUH).

    It has been rejected by Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina. Nevertheless, the demand and the scale of the emotion and controversy it has stirred up serve to deepen political polarisation in the country. There is little doubt that the end result will be an intensification of the divide between secularists and Islamists.

    In a fresh wave of protests launched by the Islamist group Hefajat-i-Islam (‘protecting Islam’) against bloggers that they consider anti-Islam, hundreds of thousands of people held rallies in Dhaka and other cities and towns across the country.

    They criticised the Awami League government for not taking severe action against those who, in the recent past, augmented their purportedly anti-Islam activities through online social networks and blogs.

    Islamist groups are adamant in their demand and say that they are committed to sustaining their pressure on the government to formulate laws which can award the death penalty to those found guilty of insulting Islam.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    “In Israel, women couldn’t be combat pilots, he said, quite simply, because they were women. Therefore, Miller had better stayed home.”

    Looks like muslim countries allow women to be pilot.

    By the way this MUSLIM has cleverly skipped Boston bombing episode. A clear case of closet Jihadi.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Same prophet ordered killing of jews when it suited him. That is what is called Taqiyya.

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    There’s only one taqiyya I know of and that I use to sleep at night! I have got two! Wanna hop on?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Unlike your prophet, I sleep only with adult females.

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    Well, that says a lot about who you are! Promiscuous ****!

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    Zeb, what type of “****” is one who sleeps with 4 women or better still, the historical person who slept with 16 women and 1 9 year old child, besides several undocumented sex-slaves?

    Anonymous Reply:

    You are being disrespectful to your lusty Prophet.

    RAVI Reply:

    does that include ur mother as well.

    Anonymous Reply:

    May be in your Islam one sleeps with mother..That’s your culture not ours.

    RAVI Reply:

    butchers(qasai) of kanpur are no.1 laundebaaz.may be u have bad experience of them.

    Anonymous Reply:

    OK..now that too is Mohammad’s territory..Caliph Omar Mohd. ki g@@nd marta tha.

    akb Reply:

    both ur point is lie.

    [Reply]

  • Sumit Bose

    Zeb many thanks for the adjective, I shall convey that adjective to my mother! I am constrained to put you in the “ghatiya Taqqiyaa” band, not because of the accident of your birth, but in your option to willfully bandy deception.
    Firstly, the “most exalted human being ever” personally lead the attacks and massacres of these Jewish tribes, Banu Qurayza, Bani Nadeer and Bani Al Mutalaq. All males of these tribes were slaughtered well into nightfall. The same night the “most exalted human ever” took as his booty (among materials and goods) the just widowed women of the head of the tribes and they are respectively: Rayhanna (orphan of the chief), Safiya Bint Huyar (just widowed) and Juwaiyria Bint Alawi (just widowed).

    As a Taqqiyya you would certainly concur with the apologists that he married/made sex-slaves because he “made reconciliations” with the Jews.
    However, the fact is so recorded by the chroniclers of the “most exalted human ever” with abundant glee and pride. This certainly would not be put out today, as it would be construed a brutal war crime, but to the mind-set of the !slam, these are recorded with pride as “achievements” of the “most exalted human ever”.
    Suffice it to say, what was started out was totally completed by Caliph Umer’s reign, when all Jews were massacred or made to flee from the Arabian Peninsula. That is a unique record of “reconciliation”, for you to ponder over!

    [Reply]

    Swaroop Mitra Reply:

    BoseDa, wonderful detail! And its Deja Vous all over again! The newly created Islamic Republic of Pakistan is on record for something on track! Hindus there have ceased to figure as any statistical entity, and the Bengali converts are not behind too, from slightly over 40% to less than 10% as of now; but we all know that the “reconciliations” are in progress, till they are able to “emulate” the glorious example set for this group of converts.

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    I didnt know there is a whole internet brigade who excel in the ability to misconstrue facts and present them to the public.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Zeb you have all the time to meet the “historical facts” i have put forth, and i would be delighted if you could correct the facts quoted straight from the H@diths.I welcome you to factually “debunk” my “facts”.
    Quite obviously, you are more content to shoot the messenger as you are empty on facts. Does there exist any basis for any exchange, as we are on two very different levels. Please marshal your facts and then we can have a healthy debate.
    That precisely is the wall that all the converts put up, midgets on facts and giants in the spin-zone, and ever so prone to dive for cover behind the veil of “hurt sentiments”.

    [Reply]

    Rana Bhoumick Reply:

    Zeb, you cutlets will always be in denial mode, the translation is wrong, the context is wrong, etc etc, but the necr0phile, ped0phile, mass-murderer, torturer, slave -merchant will always be the”most perfect human ever”!

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    Cutlets! You make me laugh out loud! Lots of love Rana.

  • raka

    Desi kheey dushmaan haar jagaha fheeel gaya hein with dual agenda. Khoi jagaha naaheey choodeey and has even enrolled india kheey converts as their doost.

    [Reply]

    ranks Reply:

    bakri kheey khaal mein bhediya haar jagaha.

    [Reply]

  • Roy

    It would be better for Zia Haq to worry about women in Islam…what a joker, Israel knows how to protect itself.

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    Zia must be worried about “women” in Islam. Muslims take good care of their women. Except those radicalized a##holes. Those are the ones who are making a bad name for Muslims.

    Islam has always been about respecting your women and treating them well. It’s their faux followers who have gone astray though!

    Peace.

    [Reply]

    Faulitics Reply:

    Zeb, I wish what you are saying is true. But it’s actually more than a few radical a##holes and they control these societies which label themselves as “Islamic”. You should not have a very rosy and idealistic view about islam without seeing how its practiced in reality. Read this article from slate
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2012/10/22/is_islam_misogynistic.html

    The first step in reform is to understand that the ideology has serious problems.

    [Reply]

    Zeb Reply:

    Roy. They control these societies because it lacks great leaderships. The educated ones do not try their hands at politics letting the uneducated ones become leaders. Take for example the MLA of a Muslim locality in New Delhi. To me, he seems to be one of the most illiterate politicians of our country! And then there’s overall lack of interest in acquiring education in the Muslim society. That’s double whammy! When you do not have quality education, you cant have quality jobs. That says a lot about the present condition of most of the Muslim societies.

    They are trying to regain the lost ground but it will take some time before they come at par with other progressive societies. Probably a few more whammies.

    As for the ideology, I’m dam’n sure it’s about peace. The facts they talk about are all misconstrued. True Islam is all about peace. What these radicals practice is not Islam. They are faux followers and do not truly represent it.

    And dont make me for another adamant follower. I’m a spiritually irreligious Muslim. I connect to God sans the irrational religious dogmas.

    I’m open to inter-faith discussions. I need to find the truth. And truth begins with peace. But what I’m experiencing here is some very derogatory talks!

    Rana Bhoumick Reply:

    Zeb, ignorance is always bliss and to get out of that “blissful” state, if you attach any “value” to your education, then get to Ali Sina’s site called faithfreedom dot org and get a honest read straight from the “terror manual and the incriminating H@dhiths, if you bear any degree of honesty within you, you will never ever state that bloomer you have made “True Islam is all about peace”. It has always been a terror manual, devoid of any concept of Universal brotherhood.

    Zeb Reply:

    Love you both, Rana and Relay. May God brings peace to you and all of us!

    Relay Reply:

    Hi Zeb, You sound like a nice person, but u r walking into a Islamic booby trap. You are trying to defend the indefensible and once you are on this track, the only progress will be to self destruct like to the two guys who did the Boston bombing ( and like thousands of others). Let me tell you I am no enemy of Muslims. Islam is proving to be clearly an ideology that is hate filled and destructive, you can see it world over.

    Sad fact is as more muslim men become hardcore religious, the more they are likely to cause hate and destruction. That is repeating again and again world over, in every terrorist attack, the perpetrators are highly religious. Not surprising that their violence can be directly co-related to the Islamic inspired ideology.

    My 2 cent advise to you, get away as far as possible from this islamic ideology, it will do no good in any way. You can be an atheist or choose any other means of reaching out to god (and spirituality), that will make you live in peace with out having to defend evil ( and all the pain that you go through in doing so). your next generation will be thankful you made the right decision. A well wisher.

  • haka

    who gains from no peace between indian and pakistan. Even iisreal becomes the broker in selling American weapons. Multiple blocks, same goal, to swindle nations of Asia and Africas.

    [Reply]

  • Abu Ahmed

    The Rothschilds do not have a presence in Iran – if Iran’s regime is changed, that will allow a whole lot of MNCs entry into it, apart from the Rothschilds (who were the real owners of the East India Co.). So one finds the sole super power along with his poodles going after Iran, of course for stopping nuclear weapons production in that country. From WMD to WND – the area would be rendered wide open for all MNCs along with Christian missionaries to work there in full force. History cannot be stopped from being made, I am afraid, we may only delay it for some time. Who lands first from the sea / space: colonial capitalist or christian missionary? israel is an extension of the West’s contain Islam and Arabs policy in the middle east; things will settle down there when the bankers / arms producers want them to.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    but rather than blame the west WHY DONT THE MUSLIMS DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING, why they are at the MERCY of the west , because they are SHIT , and why they are shit , because they cling on to a DOGMA and even worse on a hearsay written 1000 yrs after the actual incidence(read hadith)
    MUSLIMS DID THE SAME TO INDIA AS WEST IS DOING TO MUSLIMS.
    Scientific knowledge is THE ONLY KNOWLEDGE, the rest written 1600 , 2000 , or 5000yrs ago are all BUNKUM

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    MUSLIMS DID THE SAME TO INDIA AS WEST IS DOING TO MUSLIMS

    shan u are fool and will remain foolish.when britishers took power level of literacy in india was 93%our gdp was 35%.
    bengalee british reduced gdp from 35%to 1 %and literacy from 93% to 7 %.
    all beautifull cities from murshidabad to ahmedabad were built by them8000 kilometers GT ROAD to irrigation was their gift to india.
    u foolish bengalees were cleaning their shoes to get clerical job in their shipping companies.

    aurangzeb was ruling on 25%of world .we were superpower.turkey was superpower of 14th centuryfrom austia to india.
    taimur conquered 6 subcontinent and 68 countries.
    u achievement is nothing except hiding wealth in temples.starving india and spoil ecology of india.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thanks for the nice joke

    engrich Reply:

    challenge if u have doubt.ibn sina was father of medicine.

  • Faulitics

    Forget about flying. Woman in some islamist societies can’t even drive. Zia will not write about that even though he says he is a “Muslim affairs” writer. Woman are treated like chattel in most Islamist societies but Zia may e considers that as “Muslim internal affairs”. He has to focus on Jews, who the Arabs have taught him to hate through their poison ideology masquerading as a religion.

    [Reply]

    whistling budhha Reply:

    good point . writer must make notice

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I hope she succeeds!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    she is spy

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u4btaTaj90&feature=youtu.be

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    Former Dutch
    Islamophobe and a former leading member of far-right Dutch politician
    Geert Wilders’ party Arnoud Van Doorn visited the Prophet’s Mosque in
    Madinah to pray and say sorry for becoming part of a blasphemous
    film. Doorn was among the Freedom Party leaders who produced the
    blasphemous film, Fitna. Last month he reverted to Islam after an
    extensive study about the religion and the Prophet (peace be upon him).
    He said that the worldwide outrage against the film made him study about
    the Prophet (pbuh) and that eventually led to his conversion.

    He headed for Makkah
    to perform Umrah after meeting the two imams of the Prophet’s Mosque,
    Sheikh Ali Al-Hudaifi and Sheikh Salah Al-Badar, who enlightened him on
    how to lead the life of a good Muslim and confront challenges facing
    Islam in the West. A member of the Dutch parliament and The Hague City
    Council, Doorn announced his decision to accept Islam on his Twitter
    profile. He also posted a tweet in Arabic declaring that “there is no
    god but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet.”

    At first, other users took the news as a joke. After all, an active
    supporter of a notorious Dutch hater of Islam, Wilders, he repeatedly
    approved Islamophobic statements and public actions, and personally
    participated in them. But Doorn, who now serves as a regional adviser
    at the City Hall in The Hague, personally confirmed his decision to
    practice Islam in an official letter to the city mayor. Most recently,
    the politician filed a formal application to the mayor of the city to
    allow him to perform prayers obligatory for Muslims during his working
    hours.

    “I can understand people are skeptic, especially that it is
    unexpected for many of them,” Doorn told Al-Jazeera English satellite
    channel. “This is a very big decision, which I have not taken
    lightly.” “In my own close circle people have known that I have been
    actively researching the Qur’an, Hadith, Sunnah and other writings for
    almost a year now,” he said. “In addition, I have had numerous
    conversations with Muslims about the religion.” Driven by his party’s
    anti-Islam discourse, Doorn decided to dig in for the truth about the
    religion himself.

    “I have heard so many negative stories about Islam, but I am not a
    person who follows opinions of others without doing my own research,” he
    said. “Therefore, I have actually started to deepen my knowledge of
    Islam out of curiosity.” The 46-year-old has continued on The Hague
    Council as an independent candidate since splitting from Wilders’s
    party. Doorn’s decision to embrace Islam has won mixed reactions in the
    Netherlands.

    “According to some
    people I am a traitor, but according to most others I have actually made
    a very good decision,” he told Al-Jazeera. “The reactions are generally
    positive and I also received quite some support via twitter. It feels
    good that people who do not know me personally have understanding of my
    situation and support me in my choice.”

    Asked if he now regretted joining the Freedom Party, he replied: “I
    have learned that every experience in life has a purpose. However, with
    the knowledge I have today, I would have undoubtedly made a different
    choice.” For the Dutch politician, finding Islam was finally guiding him
    to the true path in his life. “I have made mistakes in life as many
    others. From these mistakes I have learned a lot,” Doorn said.

    “And by my conversion to Islam I have the feeling that I finally
    found my path. I realize that this is a new start and that I still have
    much to learn as we

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    Engrich Mian, Doorn has done immense good to two communities at one stroke; he has increased the IQ levels of both the Christian and the Moslem communities and he has to be congratulated for that feat!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    muslims are not jahil like hindus.they have produced best scientis in the past.read ibn sina ,ibn rushd.except budhhdists u vedics has contributed nothing to humanity.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    Engrich Mian, you dont have to go too far, just look out of your window if you are living in any of the Mini-Pakistans in any Indian city and you will realize without any prompting, and get a very fair over-view of the great levels of education and sophistication of your band of converts. Wish you all had some integrity and had followed your voting for the creation of Pakistan and had packed and left for that na-Pakistan. You just stay back and spit on the same plate that you eat. You are truly shameless.

    guest Reply:

    .“Hindu India” we find no difference between the words and actions of
    gandhians, marxists, Hindu terrorists, Dalal Street Dagalbajis.
    Everything in India is created, promoted and sold for the benefit of the certai class of people

    Raj Nath Reply:

    K2e dont like it, then do us all, including yourself, a great favour and fcuk off to that ****-house named naPakistan, made by and for filthy and dirty converts as you.

    engrich Reply:

    most of the muslim run countries literacy is 90%plus.we have largest number of illetrate in the world

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    picture of durga was brought from shanghai whom u worship as god.

    brhmno ka indians ko chutia bana ke lootney kee kala ko hinduism kahte hain.u were *** lickers and boot polishers of britishers who starved to death half the population of bengal bihar and orrisa

    tell me one achievement of vedic rule in india.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    What Brahminism did to India?

    Destroyed democracy in India

    Removed equality for women

    Prevented Philosophy and Science from developing.

    Divided people from socializing.

    Made life a misery to most of the population

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I guess you are talking about Islam.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    see present india

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes, it is based on present India where muslims have polluted the liberal culture.

    engrich Reply:

    i think u are talking about butchers of kanpur.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Some butchers who follow arabic traditions live in Kanpur..many were butchered in 1992.

  • suresh kumar

    Is your friendship with Isrealis conditional to whether they love Palestine?

    In that case how many friends in Kashmir and Pakistan do you have who love India? SHould you not shun all the Kashmiris and Pakistanis who don;t want a strong united India?

    [Reply]

  • Abhi

    “An aspect of Israel that goes largely unnoticed is that the fiercest
    critics of its policies are Israelis themselves. Alice Miller is one
    such Israeli”.
    Wish it were the same for the community to which Zia belongs.

    [Reply]