Pakistan fighting enemies or assets?



The terrorist attack on the naval base in Karachi is just the beginning. I apprehend many more such attempts to make a mockery of the Pakistani State, especially its security establishment the Taliban and Al Qaeda despise for being in cahoots with the US-led NATO forces.

Groups behind the attack apparently want to make as untenable as possible the Pakistan Army’s tactical understanding with the Americans that helped the latter treat as their own not just the Pakistani air space but also its territory, as was evident in the May 2 Abbottabad raid to take out Osama bin Laden.

Pakistan’s Interior Minister Rahman Malik has linked the attack to a meeting the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Al Qaeda had in Waziristan to avenge Osama’s killing. They resolved at the meeting to target important personalities and military installations across Pakistan.

At the core of the Pakistani comeuppance is its establishment’s policy of categorizing terrorist groups as “assets” they’d harbor and “enemies” they’d go after. Its refusal to even-handedly fight extremism has turned Karachi and southern Punjab into hotbeds of gun-totting gangs of varied hue. Lahore anyway is the headquarters of LeT so indulgently patronized by the fauj and its intelligence arm the ISI.

In recent years, the terrorists have had the audacity to invade countless high-security installations of the Pakistan army, air force and navy, including the General Headquarters at Rawalpindi and Lahore’s Naval War College. Also at the receiving end of marauding groups have been offices of ISI and the Federal Investigating Agency (FIA) besides training schools and colleges run by military, paramilitary and police forces.

While luring young men from poor families as potential fidayeen, jehadi organizations launch bomb assaults on fresh recruits to police and other security organizations. Their effort is to cripple the morale and the security infrastructure of the State that boast of nuclear weapons.

Rather than facing the challenge upfront, the establishment at times looks complacent and at times helpless, letting money flow in millions in the coffers of outfits such as Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Al Khidmat foundation of Jamaat e Islami. These organizations might not be openly anti-Pakistan as the TTP is. But their broader anti-India agenda isn’t in the long term good of the country.

US diplomatic cables unearthed by WikiLeaks provide graphic details of police feeling threatened by the radicals whose seminaries and other facilities are a no-go zone for law enforcers. These cables put the quantum of funding received by terror groups at nearly USD 100 million from Saudi Arabia and UAE.

It must be noted that South Punjab is known for its secular Sufi tradition clerics from Deobandi and Ahle Hadith schools are seeking to destroy through superstition-based indoctrination. Jehadi recruiters attribute poor people’s plight to worship at sufi shrines. The going rate for young men allowed to join the jehad by their parents is as high as Rs five lakh.

The Pakistani state must find ways to defuse these human bombs before they blow in its face. The only way to do that is by fighting poverty, ignorance, dogma and hatred for India. A tall order this, given the historical baggage of Indo-Pak distrust. But a dramatic gesture (of extraditing somebody like Dawood Ibrahim to India) can make it do-able. If only the Pak fauj decides to help itself, Pakistan and India— in that order.

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  • Atul8

    We have been discussing the possible impact of Talibani occupation in Pakistan for some time now.

    From the looks of it, most of the the US Military aid has not been used to protect their own military assets. That means the Pak Militia &the feudal lords have more money stashed in Swiss accounts than the Indians.

    The worrisome parts are the apparent vulnerability of the nuclear arsenal and now perhaps the airforce fighters as well. any madcap may decide to unleash his hatred on Indian targets.

    Personally, I doubt is Pakistani fauj is capable of helping themselves,. Their oficers live a push & comfortable life, and I am told that the average **** officer is not as battle hardy as their Indian counterparts, and that means Paksiatn is in deep trouble..

    More than Pakistan, I worry for India

    [Reply]

    Atul8 Reply:

    Sorry dont know how the asterix got there. It should be read a Pakistani

    [Reply]

  • Manohar_T

    Vinodji

    The armed forces would be loathed to let go the power and the money at its command voluntarily. Only Jasmine-type of protests by the civil society can send the army back to the barracks. It may not be impossible to do so, as earlier mass movement to restore I M Chaudhary as the Chief Justice of Pakistan did succeed. The question – is there a will on the part of the citizens to take on the army?

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Mishraji/ Balwinderji;
    As feared, page has been turned. I will not do a cut and paste. Please feel free to go to previous blog and read my response. sorry for inconvenience.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Question : When USA plucked Bin Laden from a house adjacent to Pak military academy, who was publicly offering and conducting prayer services all over Pakistan for the great departed Islamic soul of Osama bin laden ??

    Answer : It was not TTP .
    It was LeT/JuD leader Hafeez Sheikh Mohammad, who is dearest to Pak army/ISI for his criminal and terrorist activities against India.

    Pak state must be isolated so that either it self-destructs or reforms from within. Its a ugly ulcer created by Jinnah’s ideology and what others can do is to isolate it and stop it from spreading.

    [Reply]

    Daisy Boy Reply:

    After 1857 Ghadar, to reduce the combined power of Hindus and Muslims in combating British Raj, the British floated the 2 nation theory, which was later picked-up by the Hindus and much later by the Muslim League’s Jinnah. Rest is history. Maulana Azad is the only Indian leader who never agreed to the creation of Pakistan, and had Mahatma Gandhi continued to support Maulana’s views, there would have been no partition and no Pakistan after Independence. In fact, Maulana Azad had predicted that Pakistan would collapse within months of its creation – those months have taken more than 60 years – but it is still possible, thanks to the existence of so many militants within that country.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Daisy,
    “After 1857 Ghadar, to reduce the combined power of Hindus and Muslims in combating British Raj, the British floated the 2 nation theory, which was later picked-up by the Hindus and much later by the Muslim League’s Jinnah. ”

    This is factually incorrect. After 1857, muslims were harrassed by Brits (as throne was given by hindus to mughal king), so muslims decided to side with Brits against Hindus..Does Syed Ahmed Khan who established AMU ring any bell. It was muslims who picked separatism much before hindus did. You should not post your views on historical matter..do some research. Infact muslims were instructed by their leaders to keep away from hindus war for freedom and side with brits. The muslim league was natural successor of separatist ideology of Syed Ahmed Khan (called SIR by brits).

    [Reply]

  • nirav

    @Vinod sharma,

    Have you taken sanyas from indian domestic politics?
    Or are you too shy,scared and emabrrased to talk about them because of you favorite party in dock?:)
    Why no comments on the great chindrambrams list of human and inhuman errors,bharadwaj recommendations and then praise of yeddy(your first love)…rahuls stupid statements of rape and murders and then congress backtrack and protection…
    its is so sad but amusing to an outsider we have people like,
    1)Rahul who says:RSS is bigger threat than LET…and like an idiots says his mom created bangladesh…
    2)Sonia who calls the most progressive CM as mauth ka saudagar.
    3)PM who says all resorces belong to the muslims first as if he was fathered by one and hindus are a disgrace..and like dhritatrashta he is helpless in scams due to colition politics…Majboori my foot..he is plain selfish
    4)EAM/FM Krishna reads a portugese FM speech and doestn even know that …shame shame
    5)FM chidambram makes a list and sends it to pak which has a numebr of them already in india destroying indias international credibility
    6)chidu again and PM appoints CVC who is thrown out by the courts…
    what PM,FM,Amul baby,queen italiano….and President bai do we have here…
    Vinod,you must be really well paid ar NMC to be so loyal to Indian national corruption party INC…
    Else you would have spoken on any of these issues ever…

    “Hadsa yeh nahi ki HAdsa hua hai,
    Hadsa to yeh hai ki sab khamosh hai”

    [Reply]

    joe satrani Reply:

    RSS should be nipped in the bud. Pakistan is an example stating that right wing hardliners are well capable of hijacking govt. And how easily. Those Indians who support religion related politics are the biggest threat to future of India and already been hampering our growth for more than half a century.. Last generation was feeble, slave mentality; We should shun away differences and hunt down religious extremists like animals, irrelevant of their beliefs. We dont want same cancer that caught papistan. Religious groups in India are extremely violent. They need to be removed violently but shhhh.. no one need to know…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Joe satrangi,

    forget about ‘nipping in the bud’ the RSS. It can, if it wishes, nip you in the bed itself!

    As for hijacking governments, even left wingers are adept at it. Look at Mamta Banerji, the Brahmin left winger CM!

    Also, our growth was hampered not by right wing religion based parties as you say, but by godless left wingers and socialists for more than five decades. Look at West Bengal’s devastation caused by the communist rule for 34 years and learn from it if you can.

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    vinod sharma Reply:

    @nirav
    Ha ha. What a joker you are. You think you can choose the subject on which should write. This blog essentially is about India and Pakistan. So take it or leave it. I shall write on Indian politics as per my convenience. As for my association with the NCM, why don’t you use RTI to find out how much money I earn from there.

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    nirav Reply:

    Vinod sharma,

    thank you for calling me joker but what role do you play in the congress circus with the ring master(oops mistress)..
    Anyways,
    “i shall write on Indian politics as per my convenience”
    convinence ????what about jornalist ethics,duties and love for the country???
    i guess that is not included in yellow jornalism:)
    You will never write on any of the topics i mentioned because it might displease your beloved ones …
    So what if they may be in national interests…
    As far as RTI goes,

    It doesnt mention the non accounted payments which are not in IT returns…
    It also doesnt include various perk and padmashris…that are given…
    Also it doesnt inlcude various tours alloted in garb of commitee memberships…

    surely funny huh!!!!

    [Reply]

  • Gopi Thomas

    The question is not who will save Pakistan, but can it be saved at all? And, wht are the implications for India?

    The attack on the naval base is just the tip — the hydra faced monster will attack Pakistan with its thousand faces and incarnations. There is nothing the army brass cando, because the middle and lower levels of army are partof the jehadis; so also a few in the top rung.

    US is not going to over play, they will sure monitor to ensure their people are safe. China will help Pakistan, but only toa an extent. I believe the offer to handover Gawdar port is in Pakistan establishment’s security inteerst only – so that Choinese will protect the transportation flow from Gawdar to China; thus helping Pakistan against the internal terrorists . But that is going to take eons of time.

    The utmost priority initiative for India (and US) is to denuke the country. pak is working overtime to produce nuke weapons – a few will get into theterroris hands, plus the Govt itself will get back into nuke trading, like they did with N korea, Lybia, Iran etc. India should secretly assist US to pluck the weapons out or destroy key capabilities. India can have all sorts of treaty with Pakistan; but the way things are there now, it is the jehadis who are in control and not zardari or Kayani.

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    Rajeev Reply:

    Let me tell you that pakistanis are not some Tibetan that China can suppress to save its assets in pakistan. There have been beheadings of chinese engineers in Balochistan & if china tries its tibetan tactics, it may seen increased number of beheadings.

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  • http://- Rajeev

    I think this blog belongs to this particular debate hence re-posting.
    A fantastic satire by Nadeem Nadeem F. Paracha. As self-appointed moderator Balwinder Singh (who makes inane outdated jokes) has instructed that link is enough, matter is not, I choose to defy his fatwa and post the link and matter as well.

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/13/extra-extra-mullah-omar-arrested-in-pakistan.html
    Extra! Extra! Mullah Omar arrested in Pakistan
    BY NADEEM F. PARACHA ON MAY 13TH, 2011 | COMMENTS (207)

    ISLAMABAD: In a daring raid, Saudi Special Forces arrested renegade Afghan leader, Mullah Omar, from a famous five-star hotel located in one of Pakistan’s most popular vacation spots – Bhurban.

    The news spread like wildfire and people were seen cursing the Pakistani government for allowing the Americans to undermine Pakistan’s sovereignty – again.

    However, when it became clear that the raid was not conducted by the Americans but the Saudis, the frowns turned into smiles and many were heard saying, ‘Jazzakallah!’

    Only minutes after the raid, Pakistan’s prime minister and Army Chief appeared on state-owned television and congratulated the nation and thanked the Saudi regime for helping Pakistan in its war against terror.

    Interestingly, religious parties like Jamaat-i-Islami, (JI) Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam (JUI) and some banned sectarian organisations, along with Imran Khan’s Pakistan Thereek-i-Insaf (PTI) which had originally called a joint press conference to condemn the raid, changed their stance half-way through the conference when told that the raid was by Saudi forces and not the Americans.

    Munawar Hussain, JI, chief, was first heard lambasting Pakistan’s PPP-led civilian government for letting the country’s sovereignty be violated by the Americans, but after a reporter confirmed that the raid was executed by Saudi forces, Munawar turned to Imran Khan and embraced him.

    ‘Mahshallah!’ he exclaimed. “Today is a glorious day for our Islamic republic!”

    Imran Khan and JUI chief Fazalur Rehman had earlier questioned the real identity of the man arrested from the five-star hotel, saying that even if it was Mullah Omar, we should be ashamed because Omar was a freedom fighter, conducting a liberation war against the Americans.

    However, after it became clear that the arrest was made by Saudi forces, both Imran and Fazal then claimed that Mullah Omar was no friend of Pakistan and that he was not even a Muslim.

    In a joint statement, JI, JUI and PTI, congratulated the nation and said that they had been saying all along that the Taliban were Pakistan’s greatest enemies and should be exterminated.

    The statement also said that the PTI and JI will continue to hold sit-ins against American drones which were parachuting evil men like Mullah Omar into Pakistan and violating the sovereignty of the country. For this, the statement suggested, that Ahmad Shah Abdali should be invited to invade Pakistan and defeat the Americans.

    When told that Abdali died almost two hundred years ago, PTI and JI termed this to be nothing more than western propaganda.

    Imran Khan added, that from now on he should be addressed as Imran of Ghaznavi and that one of Pakistan’s most prominent revolutionary and youngest nuclear physicists, Zohair Toru, was building anti-drone missiles.

    Toru, who was also present at the conference, confirmed this while licking a lemon flavoured popsicle. He said it was a very hot day and popsicles helped him concentrate.

    Meanwhile, a military spokesman also held a press conference to give the media a briefing on the details of the raid.

    He said the raid was executed by Saudi Special Forces who came from Saudi military bases in Riyadh.

    The helicopters then landed on Margala Hills in Islamabad. On the lush hills, Saudi soldiers disembarked from the copters, got on camels and rode all the way to Bhurban in broad daylight.

    They were twice stopped at checkpoints by Pakistani Rangers but were allowed to cross when some Saudi soldiers said something to the rangers in Arabic. It is believed that the Saudis promised the Rangers jobs in Saudi Arabia.

    An eyewitness claims the Rangers smiled and waved to the departing camels, cheering ‘marhaba, marhaba.’

    The camel army reached the five-star hotel in Bhurban at 11:00 am and right away rode their way into the sprawling premises.

    The camels were also carrying rocket launchers, sub-machineguns, pistols, grenades and popcorn, all concealed in large ‘Dubai Duty Free’ shopping bags.

    The military spokesman added that although the Pakistan Army had no clue about the raid, there were a dozen or so Pakistani military personnel present at the hotel.

    When asked whether these men questioned the camel riders, the spokesman said that they did see the armed camels enter the hotel but the military men were at the time more interested in interrogating a 77-year-old Caucasian male whom they had arrested for smoking in a non-smoking area.

    “After the Abbottabad incident, we are keeping a firm eye on Europeans and Americans,” the spokesman said.

    Even though the white man turned out to be an old Polish tourist, the spokesman praised the military men’s vigilance. “Our country’s sovereignty is sacred,” he added.

    According to the Pakistan military, the Saudis then rode their camels into one of the hotel’s kitchens and fired teargas shells.

    This way they smoked out the chefs and their staff out into the open. From these, a Saudi commander got hold of a one-eyed chef with an untidy beard.

    The Saudi commander looked at the chef and compared his face to a photograph he was carrying. He asked: ‘Al-Mullah-ul-Omar?’ To which the chef was reported to have said: “No, al-chicken jalfrezi. Also make very tasty mutton kebabs.”

    The commander then asked, ‘Al-Afghani?’ to which the chef said, “Yes make Afghani tikka too. You want?”

    A reporter asked the military spokesman whether the Pakistani military men present at the hotel witnessed the operation. The spokesman answered in affirmative but said they didn’t take any action after confirming that Pakistan’s sovereignty was not being violated.

    The reporter then asked how the military men determined that Pakistan’s sovereignty was not being violated. Answering this, the spokesman said that since the camel riders were speaking Arabic there was thus no reason for the military to charge them with violating Pakistan’s sovereignty.

    This statement made the media men at the press conference very happy and they consequently began applauding and raising emotional slogans praising Islam, ISI and palm trees.

    Soon after the announcement that Mullah Omar was arrested by Saudi forces, the country’s private TV channels became animated. One famous TV talk-show host actually decided to host his show in a Bedouin tent. Instead of a chair, he sat on a camel wearing a Pakistan Army uniform.

    Though most of his guests — that included prominent ex-generals, clergymen and strategic analysts — praised the operation and heaped scorn at Mullah Omar, there was one guest, a small-time journalist, who disagreed with the panelists.

    He asked how a wanted man like Mullah Omar was able to live in Pakistan undetected and that too while working as a chef in a famous five-star hotel. He also said that Mullah Omar had also been appearing on various cooking shows as a chef on various food channels.

    To this, the host snubbed the journalist telling him that he was asking irrelevant questions.

    ‘But before this operation, everyone was supporting the Taliban and telling us they were fighting a liberation war against the Americans,’ the journalist protested.

    ‘No,’ said the host, ‘it was the civilian government that was in cahoots with the Taliban. It should resign.’

    ‘No,’ the journalist replied, ‘it was our agencies!’

    This made the host angry and he slapped the journalist. He threatened the journalist by saying that he would lodge a case against him in accordance with the Islamic hudood ordinance.

    The journalist responded by saying that the Saudis had violated Pakistan’s sovereignty. Hearing this, the host slapped the journalist again, saying he will get him booked for blasphemy.

    At the end of the show the host and the panelists burned an American flag and sang the Pakistani national anthem in Arabic. Then, after handing over the treacherous journalist to the authorities, they proceeded to Saudi Arabia to perform hajj.

    However, they were soon deported by the Saudi regime for violating Saudi sovereignty.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Guys , we have been here before. Pakistan will implode, nukes will be changing hands , and all possible doomsday scenario. But the bottom line is NOTHING WILL CHANGE, it has come to an equillibrum, and it will go on like this . pakistan wasn’t particularly a switzerland of the east since its inception. Post 1970 , nothing happened , it went on staggering , and it will continue to stagger. The ARMY WILL CONTINUE TO HOLD THE REINS. Only major game changer will be another 9/11 traced back to pakistan.That will be the end of pakistan as we know.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~~ LET PAKISTANIS ENJOY THIER OWN MEDICINE ~~~ :D :D ~~

    For three decades Pakistan bred the evil jehadis and used them to get aid for its own survival. The whole schem was especially bad for India as the terror Pakistan bred resulted in mayhem in Punjab and then in Kashmir.

    Having lived as a school boy in Chandigarh in the early eighties– My grandprents had migrated to Gurdaspur from Sialkot after partition– I used to feel very disturbed the artificial divide created between Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab by the evil smiling cobra, gen Zia.

    After the evil smiling cobra achieved jannat while eating mangoes :D , benazir repeated the process the jammu and kashmir.

    KPS Gill given full charge by PVN finally solved Punjab. Kashmir hunts for its Gill, but fake activists prevent the govt from following a bullet for bullet in J&K. Yet my guess is at least 15000 innocents died in Punjab. While 30000 may have been killed in Kashmir becasue of Pakistan.

    Now Pakistanis say that 30000 Pakistanis have died since 2000 fighting terrorists. let these Paksitanis taste more of their own jehadis whom they want to inflict on the world.

    In the end a UN force lead by the USA (sicne US was guilty of creating jeahdis) should enter Pakistan to convert it into four countries.

    Unfortunately we should remember that some of our idiotic softbrained- niks like Mani Aiyar, Khushwant Singh, IK Gujral, Kuldip Nayar jump to the rescue of Pakistan and used to blame India for its problems. To them I say, ” Guys… you were kicked out of your fatherland during partition. Yet because of a stockholm syndrome love Pakistan more… so why dont you go back and settle there…. ??? ” :D :D :D

    The same process

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    Stockholm syndrome may be Arabic to these phony leaders.
    The moment you mention Stockholm, their mind would instantly think of the stock at home of the foaming liquid, which they would imbibe aplenty after their customery candle lighting at Wagah border.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ SHenoy :D

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Shenoy saheb

    A very interesting rhythmic concoction of “stock at home.” from the word ‘Stockholm”

    BNA.

  • Raju Kurien

    Muhamed Riyaz, a SIMI organizer from Tamil Nadu, is arrested in france for spreading, teaching, “leading” extremist jehadism.

    Several aspects of this bother me, should bother all indians, especially Indian Muslims-

    - That he is from Tamil Nadu, not a place where Msulims are backward , illiterate , or poor.. Our esteemed Dr Kalam is from tamil Nadu ..

    - I think he is the first Indian Muslim (may be in addition to the Barot guy in London) to be involved in international terrorism.

    - Theat he may not be alone; there will be otehr Indian Muslims belonging to SIMI operating cells worldwide .

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    There should not be any reason for a Tamil Muslim to act against France, and for that matter against Tamil Nadu or the rest of India.

    And let us not lump these into misguided actions of a few. KSA is spending a lot of resources to “salifize”, recruit, and destroy. Indians in general, and Indian Muslims in particular, should force the government to investigate Saudi funded activities in the country.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Shoeb, welcome back. The Indian polity is too weak to monitor madarsas and militant mosques which are proliferating all over India under your very noses.

    [Reply]

    Daisy Boy Reply:

    No need to monitor Madrasas or Jamaats – Sufism and its teachings need to be propagated greatly for its inclusiveness, peace and love for all.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    raju, there was Dr Bilal or Abdullah from Bangalore who tried to bomb glasgow.
    but let us not celebrate too much- no indian muslims in International terror- the local Indian islamic terrorist does not have to go to west to hurt it- the other favourite target of islamists- hindus and sikhs – is all around him.
    have you forgotten the bomb blasts from rAJASTHAN, TO MUMBAI TO DELHI TO Ahemdabad, Assam etc

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    That barot guy is dhiren barot , a guju through and through, failed in life ,became jihadi with the new name Al-Hindi

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dr Pankaj- thank you for your response in the prev blog. I did read it. And since Rajiv is reposting, maybe so will I.
    Dr Mishra’s post- what would hindus/ sikhs do if they were in a muslim dominated area- would they ask for hindustan- dont know.
    Hate to admit, but for a change ravi gave a good answer- for within 30 years of independence, some Sikhs were asking for too much in Punjab- they wanted khalistan.
    So see Mr Shenoy, it was not a silly question or one coming from a twisted mind, it was a gut wrenching question which forced me to look at the Khalistan years

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    what is so ‘gut wrenching’ about it, especially when hte question was a hypothetical one?

    It is like saying, what if Nehru had not rushed to UN? what if the Indian army was allowed to wrest the present POK before India ‘accepted’ the ceasefire?

    or, what if Sardar Patel had not swiftly acted in a military action to wrest Hyderabad state for India?

    which was why I called it a twisted question.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Balwinder

    I think you are being grossly unfair to Shenoy. When this blog shone or just meandered for the past three years, Shenoy was the bright star who kept everyone smiling… as well as thinking. At times, he says the most serious things in a flippant and poetic style. But then you hhave to be intelligent enough to understand what he is getting at.

    What probbaly upsets us older bloggers at this site is the fact that mootandar hussain Tur-d and before him his avatars like Azhar hussain and fake RamAvatat would take up physical space and break continuity of thought.

    And what gets Shenoy or for that matter any reasonable Indian angry is when Congress corruption is sought to be covered by shouts of ” rape rape… Modi is coming.. rape rape…”

    Or when Indo-pak brotherhood fans start saying, “let us blame everything on BJP and forget the **** terror attacks and just eat a few Kababs together…” :D

    So Shenoy is the star here for me and most of us. So balwinder, even if you do not agree with him you have a right… but then no personal attack on him… :D

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Let Shenoy speak for himself. He needs no advocate and is quite capable of arguing his case.

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    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    PL don’t mind the advice for you were gushing like a cheerleader of Shenoy. If only you had a bustline :) )

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ———————————-
    Fatal flaw..
    ———————————-

    The fatal flaw that some peace-niks, Indian fools ( you may call them idiots ) make is that they confuse individual Pakistanis with the Pakistani state ( army/ISI/government ) and the ideology of the Pak state.

    A certain individual Pakistani , theoretically , can be a better person that you and me. By a better person I mean a person who helps other human beings.

    But as a state, as Pakistan’s history since Jinnah founded it it 1947 on a political ideology of religion inspired identity, which killed millions at inception and many more since then, is pure un-adulterated evel.

    You cannot engage or reform the evel that Pak state represents. Its toxic to the core and is radio-active. Any contact will burn and harm you.
    You dis-engage from it, isolate it, quarantine it and it either self-destructs or reforms from within.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    hum kahan ke dana theiy ,kis hunar mein yakta theiy,
    be sabab hua Ghalib dushman asman apna

    ++++

    GHalib-e-KHasta ke baghair kaun se kaam band hain ?
    roiye zaar-zaar kya, keejiye haay-haay kyon ?

    ++++

    Ciao bene

    Auf Wiedersehen, Pet

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Vinod Sharma

    This was a timely posting and probably more “in depth’ then the previous.

    The ISI now seems to be at its lowest point. Should we not encopurage our RAW sleuths to by some “blue chip” assets in Pakistan to achieve our strategic objectives?

    What is your viewpoint on this…

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Vijay,

    The best destruction is ’self-destruction’, that way collateral damage is minimal.
    So India should do neither good or bad to Pak.
    Just ignore it, quarantine it, isolate it and stay away.
    At best, watch is to see how evil self destructs.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ——————————————
    An analogy
    ——————————————

    Think of Pakistan as a person you see walking along the road, in some distress and begging for help. You being a good samaritan, go to help him. The rag-tag person, imediately turns on you and robs you. He may even assault you and follow you home. He will be back on the road side the next day with the same act , preying on people who would help him.

    Thats the nature, character and ‘fitrat’ of the Pak state. Its history and conduct with other nations is replete with examples like that.
    So be fore warned.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Russell Peters,the acerbic Indo- Canadian comic does a hilarious sketch of Indians brawling in pubs in Canada- he describes a lot of posturing and a lot of fists thrown about, but no fists connecting with jaws.
    A lot of bravado, a lot of hot air. An Indian disease. Vinod, you say- …But a dramatic gesture by the Pak state (of extraditing somebody like Dawood Ibrahim to India) can make it do-able….’

    Once again- fists flailing through thin air, effigies burnt outside Pak embassy by rent-a-crowd, while the whole of Pakistan watches with disdain. WHY DO WE CONTINUALLY NURTURE THIS PIPE DREAM that Pak will hand over Dawood, why has this refrain become our plaintive takia-kalam? Strong nations ask quietly, and when the request is not met, then they quietly use all their resources and try and do an Abotabad.
    But for that you need an American spine, an Israeli resolve, or the ruthless character of the most powerful judo player in the world- Putin.
    I cry, for an Indira Gandhi

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Nirav, I agree with a lot of what you say, but disagree strongly with one statement- ‘… Rahul who says:like an idiots says his mom created bangladesh…’

    Sir, I say, she did create B’desh, along with Mukti Bahini, Sam Manekshaw, Gen Arora, Brig Shahbeg Singh (later disgraced) and the Indian army.

    And I go further when I say, if Indira Gandhi was alive, RAW would be feared and we would have been targetting terror camps across the border. So, I for one, stuck in this cold wet corner of UK, do raise a toast to the only KSHATRIYA leader we have had in India, since Sardar Patel, Netaji Bose and Lal Bahadur Shastri.
    These 4 had fists that connected, not the wild flailings and posturings of the eunuchs of today.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    “KSHATRIYA leader”

    Don’t bring in caste in such discussions…Please…

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev.
    You are right. Yes any references to caste would be self-evident mis-directed and wrong.
    Inder Kumar Gujral. Isn’t he kshatriya punjabi, the most valiant of Indians ? He was the greaterst fool when it came to Pakistan and disbanded the little rudimentary ability we had for overt operations.
    Regarding Indira Gandhi, its not just Bangladesh, in 1984, the Meghdoot operation launched to secure Siachen, will remain anathor example of her ability to act and not be paralysed by in-action.

    Mr Mishra should perhaps read that. Link below.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Meghdoot

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev, Rajiv, Vijay Kumar, Nirav,

    I agree only partially that Indira Gandhi allowed our army to act and act in time to slice Pakistan into two. But, what did India gain in this war, besides finishing an entity called East Pakistan?

    Like her bumbling, stumbling father, she too fumbled at the negotiating table. She agreed to release the 93,000 defeated, deflated, disspirited rag tag Pak army soldiers held as prisoners of war-all for nothing. So what have we gained, except ridicule from the same defeated nation called Pakistan?

    There is an American expression, ‘the winner takes all’. Here the wily Bhutto made us say, the loser takes all. If Indira Gandhi had not listened to her “advisors”, a bunch of Pak-loving leftists, like T.N.Nehru, Parthasarathy, D.P.Dhar etc, the Kashmir issue should have been resolved in India’s favour, with the LOC being converted into an international boundary. Alas! that was not to be.

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Rajiv,

    Tks for the link. Very interesting.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Rajeev
    Understand the reference to the context before reacting to the use kshatriya. The reference here is to her combative ways.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    Are you spokesperson for Mishra? He can speak for himself..Shut up.

    nirav Reply:

    Dr Mishraji,

    Rahul is an idiot not because he said what he said but because he announced it.It has been India’s stand that Bangladesh was an internal struggle of the mukti bahini and pakistan always accused of india causing the divide of pakistan.
    By accepting that on record Rahul has disgraced india’s credibility otherwise we all know it was india which created BAngladesh:)
    As far as RAW is concerned Indira gandhi misused it to the core…however the guys who destroyed RAW are Moorarji desai and the selfish IK gujral.
    We are so helpless now that we cant even bring down dawood or hafiz by renting some bearded monkeys with guns…in pakistan…
    ANd now INC is destorying CBI,CVC,CEC…..and if possible CIC…..
    Everytime they need support from Maya and mulayam CBi goes slow and when they are to be harrased CBI burns the midnight oil….We are at best a shadow democracy now..

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    Dr Mishra’s post- what would hindus/ sikhs do if they were in a muslim dominated area- would they ask for hindustan- dont know

    bade paajee problem is very serious i have written to p.a.of mms.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv,

    When you have a rabid dog staying next to your house can you afford to turn ablind eye?

    The rabies will force the dog to come and bite you !! :D :D :D

    That is why it is imprtant to reverse brainwash the Pakistanis. I was trying an experiment on this fake MootAndar hussain Tur-d aka but frankly have not succeeded. however this should not dishearten RAW Mossad and the world. :D :D

    Seriosly speaking as a writer with a huge interest in psychology I have tried to probe into how a mother is willing to sell a son for five lakh ruppes to blow himself up and become food for dogs and pigs.

    I am at a party in a gurgoan farmhouse right now. so I will state very serious issues in a casual manner !! Hope u and Vinodji take this seriously !

    And the only way we can change that is trying to expose how the actual masters and rulers of global jehad live. we can for starters disenchant the suicide bombers by convincing them that

    –> your superstars like OsAMA were actually pornstars ! :D they spent their time with five wives, had herbal viagra and told their own children to stay away from jehad while inspiring you to get it in jannat ! :D

    –> the Saudi Prince is in prison in London for killing his homosexual companion. While youth in Pakistan is implored by jehadi gods not to watch even Antakshari ! :D

    Rajiv the key lies in reverse brainwashing. The Americans created an army of Pakistanis based on fake Islamic literature which made shahadat a way to achive jannat. the founder of this Charlie Wilson was provided “nautch girls” by none other than Gen Zia. (You can check the net on this)

    This joke of suicide bombers can only be demolished by making tghem look like jokers on the puppet strings of kayani and Osama, who themselves are beghairat insaan !! :D

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,

    “I am at a party in a gurgoan farmhouse right now.”

    Seriously…Boss, you take this lame blog very seriously. Just enjoy your party.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Nothing like hammering the keyboard after a few shots of somras !!

    But hammering the Pakistanis who have managed to kill so many Indians using thier warped ideology really makes my day… and night ! :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    What you have suggested is an arduous road, takes a lot of time and big time moolah.

    I suggest India should follow the path enunciated by Prabhat (and approved by Balwinder) with the jihadis:

    Moderation is the key.

    Don’t try to drive people away (or kill them along with yourself)

    Involve people. Don’t incite. (just ignite)

    Engage them. Don’t exclude. (go to a secluded palce and ignite yourself)

    Demonstrate them the possibilities. Don’t demonise

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    on Indira Gandhi contd- see my detailed post above-

    When the Chinese invaded India in 1962, Nehru sank into despair. The iron lady argued with her father and flew to the front to raise the morale of our troops. She led from the front.

    I visited Pakistan in Feb 1984. Indira was alive, and martial law was on. This was my first interaction with Pakistanis- their fascination and obsession with India and all things Indian was embarrassing. But there was one thing they admired, and indeed feared more than our Army- and that was Indira Gandhi
    Sad to see her grandson did not inherit those karma kshatriya genes !!

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    rajeev, regarding your comment above- I mean kshatriya in a karmic way

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Due to this Karmic connection to caste, we lost almost all wars in our history till 1971 happened.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    1971 u win because of muslim bengalees,

    Churchill has proved right on India. He lived in India, Bangalore in particular, for many years as a British army officer. He had rightly diagnosed the ills of India and the madness of the Mahatma to instal the Brahminical imperialism.

    If the Bahujans — SC/ST/BCs and Muslim/Christian/Sikhs— got some education and some security it was because of the British (Christian) rule.

    The only people who were against the British then were the Brahminists.

    BABASAHEB AS PRODUCT OF BRITISH
    But for the British rule, India would not have seen Babasaheb Ambedkar. Nor Periyar E.V. Ramaswamy. Nor Mahatma Phule.

    The British put an end to Brahminical imperialism and introduced the justice system, civil and criminal procedure codes, rule of law, postal services, railway system, public education without caste discrimination. And many ore.

    Christian missionaries did great service.

    More than anything they gave us the English language that opened our eyes to the treasure house of the world.

    Before they came India had not seen any of these miraculous things.

    Brahminical imperialists brought Gandhi from South Africa to undo the British reforms

    Kushagra Reply:

    @ Tajender -

    Here is what you have written in your previous posts about Britishers

    raja jai singh was c-n-c.mass conversion took place during british rule not during muslim rule

    hinduism is not religion but samaj.hate spewing u have learn from britishers.

    British media was magnifying him and made him saint.in the constraint he used to sleep with women naked,who lost thheir lives completely.

    i dont support him,as i feel country would have been better under bose.but he had backing of british media.

    You attribute all your made up Hindu follies in your hallucinating mind to Britishe rule and now you lick Britisher’s boots in this post and hail British rule as the best thing happened to India.

    Not only you are stupid but a hypocrite and liar of the first order, but then who can blame you for you are not even sure about the name written as your father in your birth certificate, anything is possible with you.

    tajender Reply:

    Kushagra

    was anyuthing wrong.education was never universal universal under hindu rule.

    Kushagra Reply:

    @ TA-JAMADAR: If Bangladesh war was only won through Mukti Bahini then what were Pakistan’s 90,000 POWs doing under Indian army? Perhaps following your family tradition of cleaning septik tanks?

    Is 90,000 POW which is your beloved Pakistan’s official quote is also a British, RSS lie?

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Tajender,

    “1971 u win because of muslim bengalees,”

    Should it not read like “1971 WE won because of muslim bengalees”, as you claim yourself to be Indian? BUSTED!!!

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    “She led from the front.”

    where was ‘the front’ to lead from? If China hadn’t unilaterally called ceasefire, our rag tag army would have ignobly surrendered.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shenoy,
    You should know why north Indian brahmins support Indira Gandhi because according to them hybrid Indira Gandhi was a Brahmin, daughter of PANDIT Jawahar lal Nehru..
    North India is full of castiest t*urds…Mishra included.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ dr mishra

    After 1984. our foreign office was unduly influenced by duffers like mani Aiyar who were all gas and no punch.

    Course correction only took place when PV Rao bolstered up Altaf hussain. And when NDA govenremnt chose to use Isreal and US for our foreign policy goals…

    by the way in 2007 when I was in Lahore, the pakistanis were still fascinated by indians and kept giving statistgics why they were better off… :D

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Back to the issue.
    —————————————————————————————
    What should be India’s policy towards Pakistan now ?
    —————————————————————————————
    For me there are 2 options. I prefer Option 1.

    1. disengage, isolate , ignore and quarantine Pakistan from India. Concentrate on out own progress and good rule. Pakistan will meet its own destiny as laws of karma apply to nations too.

    OR

    2. Publicly declare that Pakistan is inimical to the people of India and people who live in Pakistan and as such should be re-made and declare financial, moral and diplomatic support to people of Baluchistan for their freedom struggle.
    Remember, Pakistan is already doing its best to break India. Ofcourse it won’t succeed against a democratic, secular India.
    But India , can play the same game against Pakistan, and has great chance of success against a theocratic, lie-ful, bigoted, un-democratic, non-federal Pakistan state.
    It will keep Pakistan criminal army/isi engaged inside their own country and not leave space for them to focus on India.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    The first we shouldn’t (take)
    The second we wouldn’t.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    The Ambanis regularly visit Tirupati, the country’s richest temple, and pour billions of their tainted money.

    The god on receiving the money from these thieves converts them into angels. Does it not mean Hinduism stands for corruption and through corruption Hinduism is being strengthened ?

    Another notorious “Sri Sri” Ravi Shankar, who is operating an international racket from Bangalore, is the hot favourite of all the corrupt rascals.

    Yet another postman-turned holy man at Mysore, Ganapati Sachidananda Swamy, had all the money of the Chanakya, P.V. Narasimha Rao, who slept while the Babri Masjid was demolished by the Brahmin terrorist party. The Chanakya died before taking the money back

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Mr. TAJAMADAR- Just because cleaning toilets keeps you poor and frustrated doesn’t mean you should envy those who have wealth.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    when it comes to brahmin-bashing, he is an unabashed practitioner.
    when it comes to Hindu-smashing he has a mashed potato for a brain.
    and when it comes to India baiting he is a biting hyena.

    Even with all these ISI sponsored ‘activities’, he still had time to clean up Osama’s viagra induced outpourings, twice daily till he reached his reserved quota of 72 virgins.

    Now he is waiting for a message from maghroom Osamaji-bin ladenji that his allotment of 72 is ready.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Do you think we should try experiment no 2 on Fake Taj-pakinder?

    That is ask him why Porno film watching, 5 wives and using viagra by Osama is justifed. While brainwashed tu-rds like Turdinder are asked to blow themselves up??/ :D :D

  • Pankaj#1

    Balwinderji;
    thanks for your response. You say that Ravi has answered the question of Dr. mishra very correctly. here I disagree with you a bit. Sikh-word from Shishya- of a Guru, were hardly different from a Punjabi hindu, but liberated from some bad practices of hindus of that time as langar was a wonderful institution. eldest son of a hindu family, will go to become a sikh, that was the practice in those times. still you can find a family where one son is a sikh and another is Hindu or Mona. Many sindhis are sikh too.10 Guru asked for certain changes in dress
    , and some changes in philosphy as well: Deh shiva war mohe, shubh karman se Kab hu na taron…. and that was the begining of overt difference between Sikhs and Hindus, for masses. For masses. As seminaries wont,they prepare preachers and ideologues and Dam dami Taksal was no exception. Indira Gandhi’s real politik in rasing jarnail singh, a mistake, was seized by Pakistan, and they took full advantage of situation. They approached Jarnail singh through Chauhan and Ganga singh and a hawa was created, vested interests joined in and we had a tragedy on our hands.
    Har Mandir, which was a hindu temple, had brahmin priests, as power of harmandir raised, those barahmin priests became corrupt and at that point Akalis started their agitation to remove those priests. through Non violent agitation, supported by Gandhiji, that domination of priests was removed. what I am trying to say is Sikhism was an offshoot of Hinduism and basically was evolved to remove corrupt and bad practices prevalent amongst hindus, like many movements occured after sikh movement of 500 year back. it was only vile and guile of pakistani agencies, which was able to turn jarnail singh into a headache for Indians. Sikh masses were never for a separate Khalistan. If I made any factual mistake, please correct me.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj#1 Ji

    As I am sure, you know by now that I am probably the most unwelcome bloger here, so I have voluntarily withdrawn from making any further contributions. This I am hoping will reduce a lot of the personal nonsense that seems to be the hallmark of this blog.

    However, I hope you would allow me to correct your facts as you requested.

    You say “You say that Ravi has answered the question of Dr. mishra very correctly” and then it seems that you proceed to disagree with me. However, I said absolutely nothing what so ever about Khalistan.

    For your convenience I will re-post what I actually said.

    ++++

    Ravi Reply:
    May 23rd, 2011 at 1:46 am
    Dr Mishra
    One does not have to imagine anything in order to be able to answer your question.
    All one has to do is to look at the history of Punjab after the partition. All through 50s, and early 60s the Shiromani Akali Dal demanded the Punjabi Suba (a province where Sikhs would be dominant).
    This directly lead to a three way division of East Punjab.
    In other words, I believe that in the scenario you paint the Hindus would have asked for a partition and bloodshed would have followed.

    ++++

    There is a world of difference between Punjabi Suba and Khalistan; both in terms of chronology and ferocity. You are right about the Khalistan issue but not about Punjabi Suba.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi;You misunderstood me. What I quoted to Balwinder “is that his ( Balwinder’s) statement that Ravi answered to mishraji correctly” and I differ with him a bit.
    when Punjabi suba was demanded, did hindus asked for a separate province? if yes, I am not aware of it. Personally, I do not find idea of Punjabi suba as threatening, it is khalistan, which was definitely threatening.
    You are under wrong impression that I hate you. your current posts are a variations of many posts and variety is essence of life.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ravi;
    it could be my mistake, but if you scroll above, Balwinderji is saying that _ Few sikhs started for asking more-Khalistan- and I might have responded to it, quoting you inadvertantly.

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj#1

    I think that is correct.

    Likewise, you were not in my mind when I said that I was mostly unwelcome here.

    I will continue to read. Look forward to your posts.

  • Pankaj#1

    Balwinder Ji,
    In the light of a nihang’s propensity to shoot from hip and love for jokes, I may be permitted to crack a joke. With full apology to shan and you, as both bengalis and keshdhari sikhs are in my extended family. real family, not indian extended family.
    A sardar and a bengali got into altercation that who has had more freedom fighters in their community. It was decided that each person … no dare not to extend it further till both of you grant me permission.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Mishraji;
    You have not responded to me. It seems, you did not like my answer, had few more thoughts on that but let us think that chapter as closed.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    The NWFP and FATA have never been in complete control of Pakistan since it’s birth. Having created a Frankenstein called the Taliban they are splitting hairs by choosing the good Taliban (Afghan Taliban) and the bad Taliban (Pakistan Taliban). However, there are links between the good and bad Taliban. The Pakistani state has sold them both on one Wahabi ideology, and now are finding it difficult to clearly separate the two Taliban.. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    The Pakistani army has to understand that this evil ideology has no roots in the subcontinent,and even if it gets some traction, it will come back to haunt them. This is the result of the delusional attempt by Punjabi Hindu converts to prove their Arabism.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    talibans are fighting a war of liberation against american occupation and their agents in islamabad.this war will not end till americans leave this area.they will soon divide pakistan and afghanistan both and create pashtoonistan.trick will be the same as they divided india.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ jai vaidya

    I think we should enjoy the fun from the sidelines and stoke the fires in hell whenver required !! :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    whatever u says afghan taliban are freedom fighters not like brhmns who sold india to britishers.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    yawn!

  • bala srinivasan

    Sad to read the trigger happy comments with solutions of stupidity.If Pakistan could have been cleared of terrorists by outsiders it would have happened long ago.The very fact it is still simmering ought to make indian pundits who have offered their exotic lamentable solutions in these columns to do a bit more indepth analytical multi dimentional thinking to realise that UNLESS THE PAKISTANI ARMY ACCEPTS ITS INCOMPETENCE TO DEFEND PAKISTAN&VOLUNTARILY RELINGQUISH its authority to its civil leadership that poor nation is GOING NOWHERE.Democratically elected civil leadership however poor in their calibre of management are STILL ANSWERABLE to THE PUBLIC WHO PUT THEM THERE.BUT DICTATORIAL MILITARY LEADERS ARE NOT ANSWERABLE TO ANY ONE&THAT IS THE MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCK FOR RESOLVING SOUTH ASIAN PROBLEM.ATTACKING MILITARILY WILL ONLY CAUSE NUCLEAR HOLOCOST OF INDIAN CIVILIANS.SO PLEASE use god’s greatest gift to humans THE BRAIN.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Bala,

    so, what is your brainy solution?

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Pankaj, regarding my question- ‘ if roles were reversed and hindus were in a majority in certain areas of a muslim dominated land, would we not have asked for Hindustan…’ that debate, Pankaj is not over yet.
    I loved the responses of rajiv, vijay, shan, ravi, yourself and others. Did not reply to your post because I had difficulty understanding the subtle sarcasm there- but overall I loved your answer.

    But that debate will continue. SO I put my cards on the table without any preamble or explanation-

    This is my take- Knowing the history of radical Islam, which has not changed much for the last 1000 years, which dominates all Islamic societies- knowing all this- if the roles were reversed- THEN NO WAY WOULD I HAVE LIVED IN A MUSLIM DOMINATED LAND- I WOULD HAVE STARTED A POLITICAL STRUGGLE TO GET ME A HINDUSTAN.
    ——————–
    there you have it- politically incorrect, not an answer that may please Rizwan, Syed L Mirza and Shoeb- who I like as lovely human beings, moderate muslim and fellow bloggers. Sadly, I think even these nice gentlemen would feel suffocated in most muslim societies for radical Islam, jehadi Islam, a politically aggressive Islam always has won over moderate and sufi Islam.
    ———————–
    Apologies if I offended, I need that drink now. Good night

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    Thanks for your post. yes, now it has become much easier to answer. i shall come back to it soon.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    if roles were reversed and hindus were in a majority in certain areas of a muslim dominated land, would we not have asked for Hindustan…’ that debate, Pankaj is not over yet.

    dr saheb in imagination u can imagine anything.truth is from 1969-2002 rss perpetuated communal riots every year.while tharparkar a hindu majority city in pakistan,on the border remained calm.
    not even single hindu was touched or boycotted.

    this is difference.there are good and bad everywhere.

    [Reply]

  • AMS

    Pakistan is a Terrorist & Failed State…

    It’s hatred and jealousy at India’s progress will consume it…

    How much they are jealous of India..how much…is seen by their frustration that ultimately it

    it is taking them backward to stone age…

    Good !

    [Reply]

  • bashir

    Pakistan is ruled by its armed forces.the forces are made up by the common man who comes from the villages and the countryside.this common man is devout and follows the dictats of the mullah assiduously.so it would be safe to say that the taliban like mind set pervades the pak armed forces ,which leads me to believe that to combat terrorisim in pakistan one would have to combat the pak armed forces .for the pak army to stay in power it is very important for terrorisim to thrive.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    pak armed forces can be defeated easily.like americans defeated taliban govement.but fighting
    local population with certain mind set will be a difficult task.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Vinod Sharma,You must know as the author of this blog that there is a move in India by the NAC to curtail and censor the internet. It is shameful that India comes third in worldwide internet censorship. And look at the reasons for this censorship to annoy, to blaspheme, to inconvenience , to disparage, or orherwise anything objectionable. Should we not know the people who have proposed this in the NAC? Who have drafted this language? People who have drafted this should be exposed.Since this is your medium should you not be alert to this restriction? And, by the way, they have said anyone who breaks these rules would get a two-year sentence in jail. Are we really a democracy with freedom of opinion or are we the world’s largest kleptocracy?
    Thankfully Google is not cooperating with GOI on this issue.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Jai

    Is this true ?? So will all blogs become Congress anthems?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    It is, unfortunately true. It is principally aimed at controlling internet Hindus.

    [Reply]

  • ved

    a wishful thinking by Vinod Sharma. Pakistan was born in the hatred of Hindus.Secularists in India and communalists in Pakistan are the backbone of the existence of a Jihadi Pak. A strong Hindu state will prevent destruction of Hindus which are already not visible in at leasr one-third Indian sub-continent. Can a Hindu live in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kashmir,Kerala today. Let the secular donkeys reply to this.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    partition of india was brhmn bania conspiracy to rob and rule india.muslim wre the major of this holocaust.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    major victim of this holocaust

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    TA-JAMADAR

    In an earlier post : Brhmn baniya sold India to Britishers
    and here: Brhmn Baniya conspired to rule India.

    Even if you were twice as smart you would still have been stupid!

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Ved-

    Hindus can live and thrive in kerala “today”. However, as I have mentioned several times in this and other blogs, Kerala will become a Kashmir if government does not act decisively. Both Congress and leftist governments have done so much damage to the state (and teh country) in appeasing Muslims. In fact, in the just completed election, Congress could form the ministry only with the support of Muslim League (Muslim League won 20 of the 24 seats it contested, it is the single largest party in kerala after Marxists; all the constituencies in Malppuram district were won by Muslim League; and there were four additional seats in Malappuram because of the Msulim population growth there.

    The “hand chopping” incident last year has opened up several issues related to Islamic extremism in the satte. Kids going to fight in Kashmir, Sharia courts (one of which ordered the chopping of hands), kids going to get training in Pak, LeT having a southern India commander etc came out from the investigations.

    “Gods own land” will become another terrorist haven like Kashmir.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Sorry, it is the third largest party after Marxisst – but in reality the second largest party, because Congress would not have won its 35 or sos eats without the solid Musim votes.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    if muslim league won 36 seats means 25%of total assembly seats.what extra they got.they 25%.u are hardcore rss man lying is ur staple food while hate is ur duty.

    tajender Reply:

    appeasing Muslims.

    gopi tell me and awnser me what apeasement muslims got.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Thanks Dr. Mishra;
    Believe me, there was no sarcasm there in my answer. Infact, your question was the one which only 95+ category students could have answered in a satisfactory manner. However, it was a wonderful question, which stimulated a lot of people. Not comprehending question completely, was my weakness.
    I do have some experience, living amongst muslims and many of those people had that streak, which you eluded to, that is there for 1000 years. Now coming to present pakistan, I find that streak has grown many times more. This is a scary scenario. Pakistanis may say that they wanted to leave India because of threat to their way of life, which has been belied by present day India. Despite the assurance of top leaders, partition happened and millions of people suffered. In my opinion, partition happened because, muslims were used to a certain privilaged position, when mogul period was dominant and they were not ready to accept withdrawal of that position by becoming an ordinay citizen, without perks and privilages of being a ruling entity, not in distant past. Most ardent champions were Muslim Zamindars, who were afraid of losing their lands to jamindari abolition. They thought, that they can maintain their privilages only in a government, who was ready to continue that state of affairs. later on other interests joined that pakistani movement and we had partition. The irony has been nicely described by M. J. Akbar, that when partition happened, those jamindars of UP and bihar and other places, who were not included in pakistan, realized that they have suffered a double whamy. But it was too late. The muslims, who got the best of it, were from Pakistani punjab, sindh and bengal. They replaced hindu professionals, They got lands of hindus, they got businesses of hindus and muslims from bihar and UP and other such states became overnight Muhajirs. So in this particular situation, it was fear of losing privilages and say in governance,that is what prompted demand for partition. No where it was an existential threat to them or their culture, which is thriving in present India.
    Now, just transpose hindus in this scenario any where in world, dominated by muslims. Do not you feel that they will have existential threat for their life and culture, which has been born by innumerable instances world over.
    Finding my self in this situation, I would have gone further than political struggle. That could have become an armed struggle. I hope you understand. Muslim societies are intolerant every where and do not feel compatible to live peacefully with others, hindus are opposite and believe in peace and progress as born by present india and even supported by your arguments.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Now, just transpose hindus in this scenario any where in world, dominated by muslims. Do not you feel that they will have existential threat for their life and culture, which has been born by innumerable instances world over

    pankaj this wrong.1000 years u were under muslim rule u never felt any such threat.there was no exodus from india.there were no seprate mohallas for hindus and muslims.even now from khartoum to jakarta millions and millions hindus and sikhs are living without any feeeling of existentional threat.all of them want to extend their stay.

    hence ur point is not right.hindus were always happy in muslim rule than hindu rule.that is why even now general indiN prefer dubai to delhi.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    IN 1947 THREAT TO ISLAM MEANT THREAT TO ZAMINDAR.and also ghandhi was a hindu revivalist.hinduism in practice is worst type of apartheism.85% so called hindus are also victim of hinduism.
    he was brought from south africa by brhmnst to undo reforms and enslave india in the chains of brhmncl
    imperialism.target which they already acheived.that is why hate spewing against muslims is must and duty.that is why hate muslim songs have no taker in country side.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah….Yawn!

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    better to challenge if i am wrong.it means u have no awnser.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Kushagra

    Keep it up. Our basic aim should be to convert one brainwashed Tu-rd and see if we can repeat the experiment on a 100,000 living in Pak-shit-stan !! :D

    Kushagra Reply:

    @ TA-JAMADAR

    Your hypocracy and lies are exposed in one of my earlier posts with regards to British shoe licking. Your half constructed mumbo-jumbo in response to that only proves that for all your lies there is only one worthy answer – my middle finger!!

    tajender Reply:

    Vijay Kumar
    brhmnst never produce intellectual.they produce only haters and lieas.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    for god’s sake kushagra, i beg you on bent knees- DO NOT ENGAGE WITH TAJENDER- we are drowning in his zillion posts. honestly, did u acheive anything friend

    Kushagra Reply:

    @Balwinder Sandhu – Alright Sir, As you wish, henceforth no more molestation of TA-JAMADAR.

    TA-JAMADAR, Tu Bach gaya, say thanks to Sandhu Sir for saving your skin.

    tajender Reply:

    Kushagra Reply

    awnser do awnser do galee mat do.kutch hai to discuss.blog discussion ke liye hai.yeh nihang sardar poora sardar hai hamaree baat mano.issues par discussion karo.

  • rajiv

    @Pankaj , Mr Mishra
    I agree with most of what you said. This brings me back to something I have often said before.
    Just as not all political ideologies are not equally peacful, tolerant and liberal, similarly not all religious ideologies are not equally peacful, tolerant of diversity or liberal.

    In Hinduism, we are often taught , there are as many ways to Heavens and God as thre are opinions. Its called ‘jitnay mat, utnay path”.
    Now that would be blasphmous in som other language.

    So the first thing is to acknowledge that not all religions are equally tolerant and accpting of diversity and then proced from there and not to subscribe to the self-evident falsehood or charade that all religions are equal. Neither are all political ideologies equal nor ar all religious ideologies and people should accept free debate about the merits and demerits of any ideology.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    mr pankaj and rajiv bhai,Look at the Kerala High Court’s question (on Jan.20) if the Makara Jyoti hoax that killed 102 pilgrims in stampede at Sabarimala (Kerala) in Jan. 2nd week was a “man-made phenomenon”. And Kerala’s Manuwadi Marxist Govt.’s answer that it could not come in the way of people’s faith.

    Monkey business: Year after year the Sabarimala temple has been attracting millions of poor, unthinking, innocent fellows who like the flies flock round the burning lamp and simply die. But only after pouring millions and millions of rupees into the temple coffers.

    Over 40 years back, a group of rationalists had been to the very spot where this hoax is being played year after year with the connivance of the Brahmin priests, and found that it was a man-made trick to attract the gullible fellows.

    That the Makara Jyoti is a bloody bullshit is known to every thinking person. But the business of all Brahmin temples is to make people not to think. It is the unthinking persons who can be managed and made a monkey. Brahminism is specialised in this monkey business.

    The country’s most famous Brahminical daily, the Hindu, published on Jan.22 interviews of six Hindus saying that the Makara Jyoti is a man-made bullshit. But none can stop this temple corruption. Brahminism fleeces people and kills them in millions in Kumbha Mela and all such temple functions.

    Why this Makara Jyoti hoax is being played year after year? Even after over 100 died this year, you can take it from us that it will be repeated next year again — killing more innocents, all in the name of faith.

    All other religions also stress faith but in Brahminism it is only faith — blind and deadly.

    (2) Again it is in the name of faith that Babri Masjid was demolished by the Brahmana Jati Party killing thousands of innocent people. The Allahabad High Court (Sept.30, 2010) defended the demolition in the name of faith — though historical proof say Babri Masjid is a Muslim shrine and it belongs to Muslims.

    Here is a fantastic case of the judiciary itself defending unlawful and unhistorical acts — judicial murder of Indian democracy which was applauded by all Hindus. Mental corruption is more dangerous than money corruption.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    vijay, kushagra and others= I am vaary angry with you- PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO TAJENDER FOR HE WILL DROWN YOU IN THIS BRAHMINIST ZIONIST quicksand. he is only allowed to blog on a full moon night

    @SHENOY, agree with riswan puttar below, you completely lost the plot on DR MISHRA question. As pankaj said above- “”"However, it was a wonderful question, which stimulated a lot of people”"”

    @ bashir- well said- it would be safe to say that the taliban like mind set pervades the pak armed forces

    The most incisive comments are from gopi and mishraji-
    GOPI- “”"The utmost priority initiative for India (and US) is to denuke the country
    MISHRAJI- “”"WHY DO WE CONTINUALLY NURTURE THIS PIPE DREAM that Pak will hand over Dawood, why has this refrain become our plaintive takia-kalam? Strong nations ask quietly, and when the request is not met, then they quietly use all their resources and try and do an Abotabad.
    But for that you need an American spine, an Israeli resolve, or the ruthless character of the most powerful judo player in the world- Putin.
    I cry, for an Indira Gandhi”"”

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Balwinder . 1984 mein brhmnston ne tumhe tumahai auqat dekha de thee.thousands were saved my muslims.now brhmnsts keep u people on their foot.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    balwinder thousands of brothers are lining the embassies of muslim countries and die to go and live and earn.the most hansome sikhs i saw in indonesia.but they are not like u people.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    balwinder thousands of ur brothers

    tajender Reply:

    I cry, for an Indira Gandhi”””

    but u killed her

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    I hate to agree with the boss here- Vinod Sharma- for that would make me teacher’s pet. But I have to say to rajiv and rajeev, both of you reacted funny to the mention of Indira Gandhi as a karmic kshatria. GUYS CALM DOWN, there is no casteism here, just a reference to Indira’s fearlessness in the current discusion about supine Indian leaders.

    As Vinod Sharma said nicely- “”"Understand the reference to the context before reacting to the use kshatriya. The reference here is to her combative ways.”"”
    Vinod ji, last time I praise you for ppl will call me chamcha. Not this anarchist, straight talking hard drinking nihang

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    @ SHENOY, if you get the time try and go back to previous blog and read doc mishra’s question about ‘reverse partition’ again. Also try and read the many responses to it- shan, rajiv, ravi and the latest by dr pankaj have all written honestly about it.
    I can only confirm pankaj’s observation that it was a brilliant question, sorry to see you missed its significance completely
    ++++++++++++++
    @ doc mishra, I am not offended by your stance at all. I would live in a place where I can live in peace and be allowed to develop my fullest potential. More later
    +++++++++++++
    @BLA and Gopi Sir- in this testoerone driven debate you have said the most sensible thing about being vary of Pak’s nukes. Indian hands are tied till then

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    meant @ bala and gopi sir

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why gopi sir always lies i dont understand.

    [Reply]

  • Gunju Sahar

    I agree with author. Pakistan needs to acknowledge that terrorism is the biggest threat and shall concentrate its forces to fight that. If Pakistan can drop its claims on Kashmir then that can be an good start for Indo-Pak relations. Lets face it, the assymatery between military of India and Pak is very large and Pak has no hope of ever getting Kashmir anyway. Drop claim on Kashmir, extradite terrorists and we can make an new start.
    Or simply keep thinking that India is a threat, keep using terrorists who will hurt you more than it hurts India, have an collapsed education system as a result of diverting of all resources to military and consequently an regressive population, low production, poor growth and stay dependent on others for survival.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~~ : D ~~ :D ~~ HEADLEY SINGS … ISI LOOKS WEAKER AND WEAKER NOW ~~ :D ~~ :D

    The ISI is at the lowest point of the past few decades. And now with Headley singing its role as the chief sponsor of terror is all in the open. Let us ram our advantage at get the UN to pass a resolution for dissolving the ISI. :D

    Will Headley’s song reach the ears of the Prime Minister who wants peace with Pak-shit-stan at all costs?

    Will it reach the ears of Digvinash and Antulay who were saying that 26/11 was a ‘RSS ki saazish” ?

    Will RAW get the budget to buy out some ISI officers who are up for an IPL sort of auction ?? :D

    Don’t know .

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay kumar, you last line says all about you. DONT KNOW.
    hedley may be talking like a canary, BUT NOT A SINGLE WORD IS NEW OR A BOMBSHELL.
    That ISI is involved in using jehadi groups to forment trouble was an open secret ,and it is atleast 10 yrs old news. But as things stand NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. Though it will give fodder to the internet hindus whose only show of patriotism (DR Mishra heads the list ,and Rizwan is more strident than Togadia, at least Rizwan wont need blood test to prove his indianness as demanded by Togadia) is pakistan bashing.
    However would you kindly like to comment on the news that appeared today on NDTV , 20 million girl foetuses aborted in India , of which your state that is haryana/punjab probably heads the list.
    Dont think you can see ISI hand in this.
    Sorry to spoilthe fun.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shan, are you bonkers, why you attack vijay in this stoopid fashion. female foeticide and jokes on ISI- and then jokes on Vijay’s home state, swipe at Riswan’s patriotism- YOU ARE SICK MAN
    bus, blog par aakar kuch ugalna zarroor hai, chahe woh relevant ya intelligent ho ya na ho. Are you really a doctor ??

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    this is what shan said above, then calls vijay an internet hindu.
    shan says: May 23, 2011 at 10:24 pm – Pakistan will implode, nukes will be changing hands , and all possible doomsday scenario. pakistan wasn’t particularly a switzerland of the east since its inception. Post 1970 , nothing happened , it went on staggering. Only major game changer will be another 9/11 traced back to pakistan.That will be the end of pakistan as we know.”"”" SHAN YOU CRAZY OR WHAT, when you do **** bashing than it is alright, but no one else is supposed to do it.
    bewakoof

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @BS(can also stand for bull s h i t) , I do not indulge in pakistan bashing , I make an honest appraisal of the situation.

    tajender Reply:

    shan tum woh baat kyon poochte ho

    jo batane ke qabil nahe hai.

    nihang sardar ko kyon pareshan kar rahe ho.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan excellent awnser.

    [Reply]

  • Shoeb K

    I was in US Thursday after the Bin Laden raid through last week.

    Networks and NY Times etc provided fairly detailed reporting of the timelines, decision making, alternatives considered etc.

    Three alternatives were discussed – bombing the compound, taking Laden jointly with Pakistan, taking Laden without Pak help and without informing Pakistan . President Obama went for the last, although the secretary of defence, Mr Bob Gates, was against that decision, mainly contemplating on the after-effects and its impact on Afghan supply. They also planned the “pakistan pacifying activities” post taking Laden in that meeting (calling the leaders and army generals, Senator kerry visit etc)

    No American in any leadership position is going to trust Pakistan anymore. All the news channels, all the pundits, all the senators and congressmen were discussing the double dealing of Pakistan, what is there to show for the $20 plus billion dollars, how many times HVTs were missed in “joint US/Pak” operations (because somebody in ISI alerted the HVTs) etc etc. There was lso side discussions that the aid should be cut off,a nd the money diverted to India .

    However, they all realized that they will have to have some relationship with Pakistan because all the supply lines to Afghanistan war run through Pakistan. The concensus was that the untrustworthy relationship has to be managed accepting the fact that Pakistan will cheat.

    On the close relationship between China/Pak. the concensus was let China have them!

    btw, the President in an interview to BBC just before his European trip stated that US will again act unilaterally to pluck other terrorist leaders hiding in Pak if credible intelligence was available.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ShoebK,WHAT GOES ROUND COMES ROUND.
    The same america was giving BJ to pakistan on demand. It supported pak during the rape of bangladesh. During 90’s it even threatened India against HOT PURSUIT across the border to cha
    chase the terrorist coming from pakistan.
    So pakistan will continue play the double game, catch a few terrorist and hand over to yanks, yet lakhvi and his gang members will be guest of honour at ISI parties

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @mishra,
    regarding your comment about tribune.com.pk, only 1 out of my 10 comments gets posted. They were relatively liberal about 2 weeks ago. In last 2 weeks that have changed the policy to publish very few comments from Indian sounding names, however they continue to publish critical comments on pakistan from muslim names. something better than nothing.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    Kushagra ,

    Brahminism is a mental problem. Zionism has produced many critics within the Jews. But to this day we do not have one single honest, genuine critic of Brahminism among Brahmins. Brahminism, therefore, is a more serious problem compared to zionism.

    Except the North-East India, nowhere Christianity has been able to fight Brahminism.

    In the North-East, the church succeeded because the Mongoloid tribals are not Hindu and hence free from Brahminism. Today the North-East people are sought in all parts of India for their honesty, hard work, discipline. Their women are wonderful. Bangalore has thousands of them

    [Reply]

    jai vaidya Reply:

    **** you are the mental problem.You should be in straight jacket in a padded cell.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Wonderful satire on Nehru-Gandhi’s…
    http://www.samachar.com/These-Gandhi-kids-say-the-darndest-things-lfylKIhgajd.html

    [Reply]

    Shoeb K Reply:

    Rajiv

    While there are issues with Rahul and Mrs Gandhi etc, the main issue is wth people like Diggie and the voters who keep them. i will use all the tarppings of power If I were Rahul or Mr Gandhi as long as I can. Unfortunately, indin politics, especially Congress, gets away with this sh— because of we the people and Diggies.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Rajeev,

    You always provide very interesting links. I am still laughing. Even this has brought a
    smile on my wife’s face who is not at all interested in politics. thanks.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Here is another one from Pakistan..Absolutely brilliant..Our fellow posters here ignored this blog because they are busy make lame arguments such as hindu-muslim role reversals…
    Enjoy this one…
    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/13/extra-extra-mullah-omar-arrested-in-pakistan.html

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    You are one lucky guy, Mohan.

    Balwinder’s wife throws belans at him. Khanaa bhi der se banaati hai.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    ha ha. I had liked what Balwinder’s Paaji wrote in that post. ” they do not make
    pativrta any more ” . That was nice one .

    Shenoy saab and Balwinder Paaji you both always bring smile on my face with your
    repartees.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    HELLO. LOOKING FOR MR SHENOY WHERE ARE YOU.

    Sorry no escaping this sharp shooting nihang. Both riswan puttar and I posed some questions to you a couple of hours ago and I notice aap upar se hi blog ko soongh key gaayab ho gaye.
    As Vinodji said, Vijay is not meant to answer on your behalf- you have to debate yourself.

    sorry sir you said- “”"B.V.SHENOY Reply:May 23rd, 2011 at 10:57 am Dr. Mishra, don’t you think, when nobody cares to reply to your question, either the question is from a twisted mind or that it is really a very silly question.”"”

    and I responded to you that it was a gut wrenching question, for both this q and the answer posed by Ravi about the Punjabi suba forced me to look at my own community’s khalistani past.

    let’s face it- the ‘reverse partition’ debate is not over yet. Already shan, riswan, ravi, rajiv, vijay, Pankaj etc have all contributed hugely to it and many like Pankaj have said it was a brilliant provoke.

    So your bizarre personal attack on mishraji was inexplicable- Shenoy saheb aap bhaut accha likhte hain lekin aur bhi dabang hain is blog main- sit back and let them also have their say.
    No offence

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    also just noticed your strange attack on India and Indira’s achievement in liberating B’edsh- i am no fan of hers BUT THAT WAS INDIA AND INDIRA’S FINEST HOUR.
    It is allright to have some political bias, but not to be obsessional about anti sonia-indira-congress-rajiv hatred at all costs. There are some good things about them too.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    You are always there to sing about the good things.

    Mani Shankat Aiyar would say, what have we achieved by severing the eastern wing of a great nation? (great should be in capitals) By cutting off the eastern part, he would say, we have created a permanently wounded nation thirsting for revenge. Therefore, Balwinderji, there are always two and sometimes more sides to any issue.

    As for the ‘bias’, let me say this: I have had nothing but admiration for her as a great PM, and as a beautiful person. For several years I had had opportunities of seeing and waving to her almost on a daily basis, from a distance of less than 10 feet! But, politics makes strange bedfellows and separates long term friends too. A husband and wife team of ministers in the EMS ministry in Kerala was asked live separately from each other, because they belonged to separate parties!

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    thanks for replying. lekin aapka jawaab adhura hai- you have evaded the main charge. Do you not think your words were offensive “”"either the question is from a twisted mind or that it is really a very silly question.”””
    so, that means the 8 people who responded in lentgh to the post and/ or loved the ‘provocative question of reverse partition’ are themselves stoopid.

    I will answer your Bangladsh phuljari later, let us get this MAIN thing out of the way

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Do you have any answer to the Many many Mani’s of this country?

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Shenoy

    You are right about politics creating strange bedfellows. As you mentioned, it also splits “bedfellows”. The husband-wife team of ministers in EMS cabinet in kerala were split at a time in India when “ideals” were far more important than politicians’ personal lives. Srimathi KR Gowri and Sri TV Thomas, both ardent comunist party workers, leaders, and lawyers fell in love when both were active communist workers, got married (theirs was one of the first promnent Hindu/Christian “love marriage” at that time almost 40 years go!). Then in late sixties communist party splits into CPI(M) Chinese oriented and CPI (Russia) oriented. Thomas leans to CPI and Gowri leans to CPI (M). But then their respective parties tell them that either they have to leave their parties or leave their spouses. Both decide to stick with the party and leave the spouse.

    Gowri left Marxist party in the late nineties and formed a small party affiliated with Congress. She has been an MLA all the years since the formation of the state, except in the last election. She was defeated in the last election.

    Gowri was a capable administartor (handling food ministry in early sixties when there was wide food shortage all over India) and a loved leader. She should have been the chief minister instead of Nayanar after EMS passing away; but the caste politics within Marxists kept her out.

    Thomas passed away due to heart failure a few years after the party and marriage split. He had minor attcks ever since Gowri left him.

    tajender Reply:

    seprating begladesh was not big achievement specially when bengalees were supporting army.she did this to win election.to boost her sagging popularity.it only helped bengalees.who dont recognize her help anymore.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    teer khaate jaaenge, aansoo bahaate jaayenge
    zindagi bhar apani qismat aazamaate jaayenge

    be-asar hote nahin aansoo kisi naakaam ke
    tujhako bhi ronaa padegaa ek din dil thaam ke
    dard banake ham tere dil men samaate jaayenge
    teer khaate …

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    Didn’t Vajpayee compare Indira with Durga after Bangladesh? You have brought in Mani Shankar to divert from the issue.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    well spotted, Vinod ji. Shenoy finds it dificult to say sorry when out debated

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    SHENOY was like prime donna of this blog, when new tribe blew in, he became insecure and testy. Shame because I did like some of wot he wrote

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    I thought you knew Vajapayee better than most of us here.

    He was a life-long unmarried, though I wouldn’t venture to call him a brahmachaari.
    He was also apoet and as poets go he was romantic at heart.
    He was NOT what some would say, a jholawala, left-leaning, fire-spitting poet, like Sahir Ludhiyanvi (in Pyaasa).

    Indira was single, beautiful, romantic at heart and not unwilling to return love-filled glances.

    With all these things working their magic, more on Vajapayee than on Indira, he might have praised her as Durga, for the splendid victory India had notched under her leadership.

    I am equally sure, if she were alive during the Kargil war, she too would have praised Vajapayee as Shiva (with the third eye closed, of course).

    But sadly, Vinodji, you missed the point I made about he victor returning khaali haath and the vanquished returning full of bravado. Indira lost on the negotiating table what the soldiers had won on the battle field.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    Please read history the way you want to. But don’t twist facts or bring in extraneous elements such as what Mani Aiyar thinks of India splitting Pakistan. Your explanation
    of Indira being called Durga by Vajpayee is, in my view, ridiculous even if meant to be jocular. I don’t agree with you on even Kargil. It was an instance of a major lapse in our border vigil that led to a limited war the end of which Bill Clinton called the “triumph of US diplomacy” in his address to a joint sitting of our Parliament during the NDA regime.
    MPs cutting across party lines clapped as he spoke and then crawled over each other to shake hands with him. It was for me a moment of shame. But the government of the day heard Clinton silently and did nothing to counter his claim.

    tajender Reply:

    nihang paach aibon ka maalik punjabi kahlata hai.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    sorry, shenoy saheb, it was not my desire to humiliate you. But if you evade the question by simply answering a direct question in English, then wot can I say.
    There are some gems here- their writings make one sit up and say- this man has a lot of knowledge and debates well. He / she made me realise that there are other points of view, that my own view was wrong.
    Immediately the following come to mind-
    Shoeb, Mishraji, Syed bhai, rajiv, Gopi Thomas, Benoy Hegde, Dr Pankaj, Prabhat, Mirchandani, Bala, etc.
    Particularly the lovely writing style of pankaj, mishraji and shoeb comes to mind.

    You are not one of these greats, neither am I. So when these greats write, please I request you, do not abuse them. Exchange views with them or sit at the side and let brilliant thoughts flow

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    I fully agree with you on the list of gems who adore this blog. I am proud to think that I am a friend of theirs. If I am not in that list, no matter. It gives me consolation that Vinodji has found me good enough to continue on this blog, even if occasionally he has found my comments so unprintable that he had to resort to censoring them. But still, I always like to think that I write well and sometimes even with a bit of wit.

    Now coming to yourself, Balwinderji,

    you have often claimed that you write ‘fun-filled’ posts here. In my opinion the only person impressed by the ‘phun’ is this p*ak*i, **** Pakender. Your joke about the belan, though, was outlandish.

    you also claim that you shoot ’straight from the hip’. But why do the shots appear wild and fail to hit the target?

    On this blog, you have advised everybody how they should write, how often they should praise people you like and hate people you don’t like. Yet your fatwas are erratic.Ex: your fatwa against Ravi.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    You do grave injustice to me each time you accuse me of censorship. I would appreciate if you desist fom perpetuating this falsehood. I’ve allowed even comments questioning my parentage on this blog. I’ve nothing to prove to anybody. But there are some who must introspect whether or not they’ve misused the openness this space offers.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    I have accepted your assertion that you don’t do censorship, with all the respect due to you; generally it is true also.

    At the same time I have had the experience of my posts being subjected to moderation particularly in the last blog and two of my comments, after “moderation” were deleted. What am I to make of the same? All the same I meant no accusation whatever in the above post; it was purely for effect.

    And my sincere apologies for hurting your feelings.

  • jai vaidya

    Not to worry, Shenoy, inke quiver mein sare teer duds hain

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    So what if Vajpayee praised Indira Gandhi as Durga. it only shows he was very gracious. now, let’s see how gracious the Congress is. They do not take part in the annual Kargil war commemoration.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Gracious and congress?

    In an election meeting in Gujarat in 2007, veerappa Moily compared Sonia Gandhi to Durga! Can you beat it?

    He not only compared her to Durga, he said she has come to do “Mahishaasura Vadhaa”-to finish off Narendra Modi!!

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    It will start with ISI. Very soon USA will declare ISI as a terrorist organisation and if Pakistan
    doesnt changes after this it will be Pakistan which will be declared as the terrorist country. That time is not very far.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    IMO, not so easy. Declaring anyone a terrorist organisation, even by the USA, would not solve anything. They will still operate taking new identities and guises. Even it is done so by the USA and it stops funding. there is always China and Saudi Arabia, perhaps some other countries too.

    It is for the people of Pakistan to bring the army and the ISI under civilian control. Do they have the will and the determination to do so?

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    @Daisy,
    “After 1857 Ghadar, to reduce the combined power of Hindus and Muslims in combating British Raj, the British floated the 2 nation theory, which was later picked-up by the Hindus and much later by the Muslim League’s Jinnah. ”

    This is factually incorrect. After 1857, muslims were harrassed by Brits (as throne was given by hindus to mughal king), so muslims decided to side with Brits against Hindus..Does Syed Ahmed Khan who established AMU ring any bell. It was muslims who picked separatism much before hindus did. You should not post your views on historical matter..do some research. Infact muslims were instructed by their leaders to keep away from hindus war for freedom and side with brits. The muslim league was natural successor of separatist ideology of Syed Ahmed Khan (called SIR by brits).

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I think we should try not to discuss foreign affairs on party lines.
    The 1962 indo-china war was disaster for us and only Nehru and his henchmen were responsible for that defeat.
    The 1965 indo-pak war gave our armed forces needed confidence, although it was not a clear cut victory.
    As far as 1971 is concerned, we have to give full credit to Indira Gandhi’s decisive leadership and top commanders who turned her vision into reality. We should rise above party lines when it comes to our armed conflicts with our enemies. The 1971 victory is memorable for many reasons-
    1. It was a major victory for hindu-dominated India in last 1000 year of history.
    2. India became one of the select nation to liberate and create a new nation.
    3. It was perhaps the largest peaceful surrender of any armed forces after 1971.
    4. We protected Pakistani soldiers from wrath of Bangladeshis who would have lynched them and brought them safely into India.
    5. We stood up to might of US 7th fleet that threatened India with nuclear weapons. This incident led to 1974 Nuclear tests,
    6. The bangladesh nation which is muslim majority was created on the dead bodies of millions of Bangladeshi hindus. They don’t recognise this but it is a fact it was hindus who sacrificed most for Bangladesh.

    I have absolute hatred for Nehru-Gandhi dynasty but Indira Gandhi’s achievement in 1971 can not be ignored and should not be ignored. She is someone whom we need to tackle china-pak combine. The BJP party talks lots about nationalism but its response during kargil was mainly defensive. It did not have guts to ask army to enter PoK. There is not a man in BJP who can match Indira Gandhi..that also includes NEHRUVIAN Vajpayee.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Typo..
    3. It was perhaps the largest peaceful surrender of any armed forces after WORLD WAR II

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Vinodji,

    “@Vijay Kumar
    Let Shenoy speak for himself. He needs no advocate and is quite capable of arguing his case.”

    THANKS IN CAPITAL LETTERS FOR YOUR ‘SHIFARISH’. I VALUE IT EVEN WHEN THE SHIFARISH IS MEANT TO BE LEFT-HANDED.

    You also said, “@Vijay Kumar
    PL don’t mind the advice for you were gushing like a cheerleader of Shenoy. If only you had a bustline”

    Vinodji, at our age, we should rather worry about our waistlines than cast covetous looks at the bustlines of busty cheerleaders.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Shenoy,
    I like most of your arguments. There are some people who want to derail you. Their purpose is just to dominate this blogs..They are least concerned about history or logic or anything. There are here as a gang to have little fun…TIMEPASS public..basically.

    You continue with your arguments and don’t pay heed to uninformed ignorant old farts from Britain.

    As far as 1971 is concerned, everyone should be proud of it. Let us not bring our political ideology when commending efforts of our Armed Forces.

    I wish India had engaged in more wars after 1971..It would have oiled our rusted armed forces and also helped domestic increase in defence industry.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    I wish India had engaged in more wars after 1971..It would have oiled our rusted armed forces and also helped domestic increase in defence industry.

    and budget for development would have gone to p[ockets of our corrupt generals and politicians.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    “and budget for development would have gone to p[ockets of our corrupt generals and politicians.”

    What is the use of all the development if you can not protect it from enemies?

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev,

    I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    The 1971 victory was the most complete, most decisive and most glorious, particularly after the 1947-47 fiasco in Kashmir and the 1962 debacle in the war against China. What most of my critics here have deliberately obfuscated is the virtual writing off of all the gains of the war. Very few parallels are there in India’s history where the victor lost all and the vanquished gained everything.

    You said, and rightly so, “Let us not bring our political ideology when commending efforts of our Armed Forces.”

    Vajapayee called Indira Gandhi an incarnation of Durga after the ‘71 war. But look at what the congress does with our Kargil victory. It is not even prepared to accept that India won the mini-war.

    If the congressies can keep on harping on why Kargil happened and how Indian army was caught napping, what is wrong in asking about what happened after the 1971 victory?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    Since when have you started wearing a chastity belt Mr Glad Eye. Kabhi saadhu kabhi shaitaan. Shenoy terey kitney naam (vijay kumar included) :) ) kitney kaam (pun intended) :) )

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Well you mentioned bust lines a previous posting. I hope it is not an ispiration from Gilani who made a lunge at poor Sherry :D

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @vijay kumar
    Apply the question to yourself. Do you need others to inspire you to like bustlines? Thanks nevertheless for not mentioning Digvijay and Mani in your reply though you did repeat yourself and mentioned Gilani.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    in matters of heart and you-know-what, Digvinash and/or Mani Sankat are babes in the wood. I am sure both of them would run miles away from the presence of girls like Sherry Rehman.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Attention all

    Tell tale evidence of Vijay Kumar and Shenoy batting for reach other — my response was to Vijay but Shenoy answered after Vijay withdrew. A great love affair this? No? :) ) Ishwar is jodi ko banaye rakhe :) )

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Ab mera ek hi kaam-apne aap ko bacha lena female glad eyes se.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ SHenoy

    And it is possible Digvinash and Mani would run into each others arms… :D

  • http://- Rajeev

    Here is a rare video showing Indian Army evacuating 93000 Pakistani Prisoners of War. I am proud of this as my father took part in this war.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjfq-CQULk

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    India returned 93,000 prisoners of war.

    India returned 12,000 sq miles of captured territory.

    What did we get in return ?

    A promise of good behaviour and to resolve Kashmir bilaterally through talks.

    None of which Pak kept.
    Thats why say, any talks with Pakistan is a ploy to get defaruded and cheated because you can never negotiate with a wilfully dishonest entity.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    thank you Rajiv, I thought I was the only one here who keeps beating the drum about India’s crowning golry in 1971, only to be matched by our crowning magnanimity (read weakness) later. Dont know how old you are, but I remember vividly the 5 star welcome given to Zulfiqar and Benazir when they came to Shimla. The Indian newspaers going giddy over her bell-bottoms and her ‘fragile beauty.
    Forgotten were her father’s words- we will have a thousand year war with India; or ‘we will eat grass, but we will have the bomb’
    Fast forward to 2008, Musharraf is being feted by Purie, editor of India Today at the conclave- and Purie says in the end- ‘Ladies and gentlemen, pl stand and give a standing ovation to General saab’
    “”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”Gen Saab !!”"”"”"”"”"” Did I hear the souls of the Kargil dead roar their anguish, all 500 of them who died in minus 20 temp climbing a vertical cliff face at night…

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Dr Mishra,
    You wrote
    “Did I hear the souls of the Kargil dead roar their anguish, all 500 of them who died in minus 20 temp climbing a vertical cliff face at night…”

    That in a nutshell tells a lot about our inability to maintain balance. Musharraf should be treated as a war criminal and a thug by Indian media but we have a culture of pushing everything under the rug and then calling it magnanimous.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    is it any worse than Digvinash Singh calling the greatest terrorist, “Osmaji Bin Ladenji” and attacking America for not giving him a decent burial?

    tajender Reply:

    rajiv what was the alternate.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @pakinder
    The alternate was simple and India could have done the following

    1. India should not have given up the 12,000 sq miles until Pak accepted the line of control in Kashmir as the international boundary.

    and
    2. India should have held the threat and spectre of turning over the Pak army officers to the Bangladeshi regime of Mujibar Rehman who were demanding war crime trials for the Pak officers in Indian custody. Millions had been killed in East Pakistan in cold bllod by the Pak army. India could have threatened to hand over the officers ( and released the common soldier ) to Bangladesh for war crime trials.

    Instead, India thought that by acting magnanimously, we will win over the grateful ness of the Pakistanis who will bury the anti-India mindset and live as civilized neighbours.
    India thought that Pakistanis would have learnt their lesson.

    India forgot that Pak state is like a begger on the street who looks like is in some distress.
    If you stop to help him, he will rob you and hurt you. The only solution is to let him perish in his own stew.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    rajiv and others, I feel your anger and I hear the’ cross the border and hit them’ rhetoric. BUT WE HAVE FORGOTTEN 2 THINGS that are different now as compared to 1971.

    1. The first is the ‘N’ word
    2. The second is the fact that Pak has become the HQ of global jehad.

    The first rule of battle is to understand the strength of the enemy, it would be a blunder to underestimate the foe. Pakistan is a very dangerous animal now, any attack on Pak carries with it the risk of dirty retaliation, across a border that is porous. The time to do it was after Kargil when the foe was on the run and Clinton was rock solid behind us.
    We will have to choose our moment carefully, timing is everything in life. The history of nations is written over decades. Right now let USA be the punching bag of USA, but be very afraid when they leave.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    the N word is NUCLEAR, it is also neelam astra, in the wrong hands unfortunately

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    @ Balwinder paaji, now I know why Sikhs wear turbans. To avoid flying beluns
    haha

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    @Pankaj- waiting for your Sardar vs Bengali joke as you promised. I am sure praaji wont mind- he has a whacky snse of humour.
    Last month he told an anecdote from his business which went something like this-

    Balwinder hired a earnest young Bengali. While Ballu was always telling the goras to visit India for tourism, the Bong used to keep putting them off- saying it was dirty etyc.
    Ballu fired him. His wife asked why- cos he is gaddar, ballu said
    ——-
    priceless, I CAN actually imagine praaji doing that, and employment tribunals be damned , haha

    tajender Reply:

    rajiv or rajbandar, there is something called world pressure.dont forget.war was orchestrated by indira to propects of coming election.stories of rape and mass scale were fabricated.samjhe jansanghi rajbandar.

    tajender Reply:

    rajiv or rajbandar, there is something called world pressure.dont forget.war was orchestrated by indira to improvr her propsects in coming election.stories of rape and mass murder were fabricated.samjhe jansanghi rajbandar

  • http://- Rajeev

    Zaid Hamid blaming India-US for PNS Mehran attack….worth watching…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmyeQhzfcKU&feature=related

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Rajeev, your summation of the glory of IndoPak war was smashing dude !!!!! Esp the bit abt rising above party politics.
    And the best bit was the acknowldgement that Vajpayee did not have the Indiara’s killing touch when he did not deliver a killing punch when Pakistan was on the run.

    But sorry dude, it isnt just the brits who were put off by Mr Shenoy. His poetry and barbs against nehru-gandhis, or muslims are just too mono chromatic. And when repeatedly cornered by Balwinder paaji on his unpleasant language or stance, it was TRULY pathetic to see him squirm, twist and misquote others, avoid giving straight answers and then some weak toe cringingly going off target with Vajpayee- Indira flirtations.
    Sorry, I respect his age but Shenoy was caught with his pants down – his limitations cruelly exposed

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rizwan good.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I don’t know completely about this Balwinder-Shenoy affair but as per my understanding Mr.Shenoy has deep understanding of the issues and his inputs are valuable but a bit biased towards BJP/RSS.
    He may have misquoted people but he is not someone who would run from a civil debate. I’d appreciate if Balwinder Brit gang stick to the issues and not protect congress agents like Vinod from Shenoys.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rizwaan,

    poetry and barbs or poetry with barbs is not banned in India.

    Speaking against Nehru-Gandhis even poetically was banned ONLY during emergency.

    If Sonia Gandhi can call Narendra Modi “maut ka saudagar”, why do you call into question my right to call them names? After all, I never called Rahul Baba, “Amul Baby”.

    I am not given to misquote anybody. In the present instance, Mani Sankat Aiyar is only figurative. It denotes a class of people who question India’s breaking up Pakistan. In fact in some of my earlier posts, I too have strongly advocated breaking up even the present entity called Pakistan into many small shittistans.

    I am also not given to shoot poisonous barbs at Muslims blindly. It is only inresponse to situations like in the present Kerala elections. Even then I am very very restrained.

    Liking my posts or not liking them, well, as an Indian, you have as much right as Balwinderji or Prabhat or Manohar. You see, I am a democrat.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    you said, “And when repeatedly cornered by Balwinder paaji on his unpleasant language or stance, it was TRULY pathetic to see him squirm, twist and misquote others…..”

    You are a new entrant and hence can be forgiven for being innocent of what constitutes unpleasant language. You have to only go back a few blogs to know what kind of “pleasantries” were being exchanged between Rajeev and Vinod Sharmaji. I am sure you will upgrade your knowledge about unpleasant language.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    I don’t like the hyphenation. It is unfair.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    it is just a hark back to the recent past. No intention to open old wounds. I am happy everybody observes decency in language here and the foul-mouthed Shyam-James-Shaalu-Ina-Meena-Dika gang has disappeared from the scene.

  • Rajiv

    Live blogging of the Pakistani Tahawwur Hussain Rana Trial at the link below

    http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2500&eid=#iframetimelinechronologicalmainpostname

    Largely based on the live twitterfeed of Colin Freeze, National security correspondent for Canada’s national newspaper, The Globe and Mail and Chicago Sun-Times’ Natasha Korecki

    Its gripping testimony.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Brahminist rulers say their Hinduism is the world’s only religion that stands for non-violence (ahimsa) but facts of history say India has become one of the most violent countries in the world.

    In Blue Star they killed 13,000 Sikhs — men, women and children on their holiest day inside their Golden Temple, Amtritsar. Then they demolished the Babri Masjid and killed thousands of Muslims. In Nelli (Assam), “Hindu violence” was unleashed on innocent Muslims. In the Gujarat Genocide (2002), we saw the goriest face of “Hindu nonviolence”. In the anti-Mandal war and violence they non-violently killed thousands. The killing of Christians in Kandhamal (Orissa) became world news. Dalit and Tribals are daily kicked, killed, burnt, raped and the little property are destroyed — daily.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We are indeed peaceful but when provoked, we know how to handle others.

    Sau sunaar ki…ek Luhaar ki…

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @rajeev,
    do not respond to the criminal pakinder and his criminal stats and even more criminal interpretaion of facts and history.
    Yes , I too have made that mistake but the only way is to ignore him, no matter what the provocation. Just leave him alone. He is suffereing from brahminitis in the morning and zionitis at night and there are no public prisons in pakistan, as the entire country is a mental institution.

    tajender Reply:

    Many experts on the subject of Brahminism say the Brahmin is a good servant but bad master. If you are strong, the Brahmin will lick your boot. But if you are weak he will crush you and suck your blood. Yes. Indian history proves this

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev

    one other thing. We all Indians in this blog , from so far what I have seen, all agree that India is dedicated to provide justice for all its citizens irrespective of religion , ethnicity etc. So, in no way can any of us support a situation where an innocent Indian hindu, sikh, muslim or christian is killed – irrespective of history or actions of some criminals from any of the communities, in India. Its that noble goal that we cherish and defend against criminal entities like Pakistan. Thats what makes India strong and thats the reason why we have grown stronger in last 60 years.

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Rajiv,
    According to me any Indian who is anti-India irrespective of his/her religion should be condemned.
    As of now many muslims in India are covertly anti-Indian. The statement made by David Headley in Chicago courts makes mention of numerous letters from Indian muslims to LeT to avenge Babri and 2002 riots. It is a fact that a large section of Indian muslims have loyalities elsewhere and this has to be taken care of.

    tajender Reply:

    actual figure at golden temple operation is 300000 as per khalistani media.i also feel it is right.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mr.Mishra,
    We can not allow Nuclear armed, terror capital pakistan to bully us and others constantly. We have to call their nuclear bluff someday. It can be done by a single stroke of massive attack (which I don’t prefer) or by formenting unbearable trouble in Balochistan with the help of west.
    I think NATO would like to have a supply line to Afghanistan that is free of pakistani control. The best way to do this is to make Balochistan unmanageable for pakistan. We and west can use Balochistan route to fulfill our mission in Afghanistan.
    We can keep Karachi and other mega cities in pakistan unstable by using certain elements in pakistan. They want to bleed India with thousand cuts but we should bleed them before just with hundred cuts.
    It can be done but we don’t have a single leader who has spine including those in BJP…Sabke sab Nautanki brigade hein.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Dr Mishra,
    If you read my postings, you will see I never ask for war.
    I had spoken of 2 options, and none of them was war.
    Option 1 is my preferred option.

    Option 1 : Isolate Pak and do not engage the Pak state in any manner. Treat it just as the world treats Burma regime, N Korea regime. The world has now seen enough evidense of Pak state complicity with terrorism. India should work diplomatically to argue that isolation and quarantine of pak army/isi regimes is the correct way.

    Option 2: Provide financial and political help to ethnic groups in Pakistan that want to break away from the undemocratic, Pak army ruled state. Baluchistan makes up 1/2 of Pakistan by territory. Help the Baluch to keep the pak army/isi busy.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Real reason for liberation of Banladesh for pakistanis like Tajender..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh17ea-COnY&feature=related

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Mishra
    regarding the Pak nuclear option, I foresee following
    Its a white elephant that Pak is spending all its resources on as the country literally disintegrates.
    What will it do with it ?
    If it uses it against any country, that would be the end of Pakistan.

    So, the likelihood is that either it will go bankrupt taking care and protecting it or
    get used in a civil war in pakistan.

    I hope you have read the following I posted earlier from a book by the Taleban ambassador to Pakistan, just before US invation of Afganistan in 2002. In the book the ambassador argues how Pak state ( musharraf/army/isi ) sabotaged all diplomatic solutions that would have prevented US invasion on Afganistan and cheated both Afganistan and US in negotiations with the aim to sabotage them.

    Here is an excerpt from his book

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-
    This is an excerpt from the book ‘ My life with the Taliban’ by Abdul Salam Zaeef – Afghan ambassador to Pakistan from 2000-2001
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    “Pakistan is so famous for treachery that it is said they can get milk from a bull. They have two tongues in one mouth, and two faces on one head so they can speak everybody’s language; they use everybody, deceive everybody. They deceive the Arabs under the guise of Islamic nuclear power, saying that they are defending Islam and Islamic countries. They milk America and Europe in the alliance against terrorism, and they have been deceiving Pakistani and other Muslims around the world in the name of Kashmiri jihad. But behind the curtain, they have been betraying everyone.

    Their Islam and their jihad were to destroy their neighbouring Islamic country together with the infidels. They handed over their airports to the Americans so they could kill Muslims and destroy an Islamic country. Their loyalty to the Arabs is so great that they sold diplomats, journalists and mujahideen for dollars. Like animals. God knows whether they will ever use their nuclear bombs to defend Muslims and Islam. They might use their weapons- as they have used everything else- against Muslims ”

    -
    —————————————————————————————————————————
    Conclusion : Any engagement with a wilfully, dishonest entity, dedicated to deceit, will end in getting defrauded. India has been deceived repeatedly following talks and more billions USA rushes to Pakistan the more it gets defrauded and deceived.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I have read your arguments on how to deal with Pakistan and I feel these are implementable.
    But the problem is that after the demise of Indira Gandhi, our foreign policy has lost focus. Our responses are mostly reactive and without substance. BJP tried to correct the course and it did do so with rest of the world except for pakistan. BJP failed to handle pakistan effectively although it forced Musharraf to declare that pakistan will not allow terrorism against India from its soil.
    This UPA govt. has given a blank check to pakistan and its terror franchisees to carry out terrorist attacks in India. The joint statement made at Sharm-al-Sheikhs speaks volumes about our govt.’s will to put pakistan in spot. This govt. has made Indian foreign policy impotent vis-a-vis Pakistan and China.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Many experts on the subject of Brahminism say the Brahmin is a good servant but bad master. If you are strong, the Brahmin will lick your boot. But if you are weak he will crush you and suck your blood. Yes. Indian history proves this.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Mishraji;
    I would have loved to share that joke, but it is not only Balwinder but Shan should also agree for that. I will never utter a vulgar joke but in all fairness, BOTH of them should agree and for the present none of them have consented.
    Somebody pointed out that this Tajinder is ever present on this blog, and you can have his comment for every post any one sends to this blog. Does not need sleep, eat or do his other business. Strongly feel that a team of few people are working. As style and standard of language, keeps on changing.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    An American, a Frenchman, an Englishman and an Indian were cruising in the Mediterranean Sea.

    One evening as they were relaxing upon the deck, the American opened a large cigar box and offered every one a cigar. The remainder he chucked into the sea. As every one looked at him with bemused faces he said, “don’t worry there are plenty more boxes back home”.

    Moments later the French men opened a bottle of Champagne and offered every one a glass. As they were enjoying champagne, the Frenchman picked up the rest of the case and hoyed it over the rails, while saying “don’t worry there are plenty more cases back home”.

    Seeing this the Englishman looked worried, realising that it was his turn next.

    Then quick as a flash, he picked up the Indian and threw him over board. Every one shouted why did you do that.

    He said “don’t worry there are plenty more Indians back home”.

    Pankaj#1, Don’t worry, tell the joke and sod the consequences.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Osama ke fish eaten Tatte…Tu abhi bhi yahan hai..suar ki aulaad..nikal bahar.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Actually the other passenger was a pakistani, he said “Dont worry , it is just a token , there are loads back home which we need to dump , otherwise our economy is being leeched by these
    pests , who never ork,rely entirely on dole money and breed like rabbit , with the sole purpose og getting 90 pounds for each rabbit or ? hamster(oops ham)

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shan and rajeev, not to worry, we like ravi hating India and telling anti Indian jokes.
    chek out my own khatta meetha chutkula- on ravi below

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @rajeev and rajiv, josh is one thing , hosh is another.
    Lets say india attacks pakistan , what will happen , pakistan will be chewing khaini.
    Do not forget pakistan has been armed by uncle sam, they have got quite a few F16, which is by no stretch of imagination , a dodo.admitted india has Sukhoi mki 30, which is probably more than a match for F16, but sukhoi are still being built , the inventory is not more than 50(i am open to be corrected)
    both country have MIRAGE supplied by france.Deep strike fighter in the way of anglofrench JAGUAR , first made appearance in 1970.you cannot rely too much on such an old technology despite updates.
    i am aware indian radars are better than pakistan ,then again you should keep in mind MIG was shot down by pakistan during kargil war.Mig 29 is the mainstay of attack at the moment.
    Next is missiles , which is dead effective . And prithvi is pretty good though the range
    is only 300 km. No body has a clue as to the missiles of pakistan. the shaheen and ghauri(named only to annoy india, typical fuckistan) that you hear off is just exprimental. Though if it was BARTERED with North Korea in exchange for nuke technology, then the koreans may have given the technology lock stock and barrel.Next is the chinese dimension. I hope it didn’t escape your attention , the news of 14 chinese in the naval base that was attacked .They didn’t go there to teach how to make chow mein. China supplies CHENGDU fighter which is a copy of MIG21 , and god knows what else it supplies.(All the above comments are a result of a pretty dedicated reading of jane’s all the worlds aircraft and other military magazines available in my local library in KENT
    Regarding NUKES , it is true india is the target , but US is not off the target ,nor is ISRAEL.
    So as much it is important for HUMANITY , to see pakistan denuclearised it is a difficult job.
    US and israel can do it ,israel had bombed iraqi nuclear installation with surgicalprecision.
    Also US tomahawk can take out the nukes. US is too far for pakistan to mount any retaliation.
    SO ONLY A MULTI PRONGED attack involving US Israel and india can see the end of pakistan.
    Other than that you will have to wait for another 9/11.
    Post Script,would really miss Ashish’s CRAB or green eyed monster remarks.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @shan,
    I dont think you have read my post.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    Same here..Infact I want India to use covert path.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    I agree with you in the sense that it is not one nation job. Since the evil axis of China, pakistan and North Korea is in full swing, others should combine and eliminate this boil, full of pus, with a surgical strike.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Rajiv, while a tough govt and RAW can do all of the above, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF TALKING.
    Never forget that there are hundreds of journalists, students and leaders in Pakistan who think like us. Shocked are you? Yes, I know they form 0.0001 % of the population but they are imp.Who are they=
    Pervez Hoodbhoy
    Nadeem Piracha
    Cowasjee
    Fasi Zaka
    George Fulton, married to a Pakistani
    Khurram
    Raza Rumi
    Burney etc etc
    They spend evry living moment of their life shouting down the demagogues, the hate merchants. Sometimes I wonder that Hoodbhoy is still alive.
    And how could I forget Hasan Nissar and Najaam Sethi. So Aman ki asha is a must, only it should not mean that you lower your defences. But soft power has its place. The new newspaper Express tribune started in Pakistan 1 year ago- it is very popular, and allows Indians FULL FREEDOM to publish their views.
    So, I do not agree with this view- ‘do not engage the Pak state in any manner, isolate quarantine etc

    India shares a very porous border with one of the most dangerous and unstable country in the world, bahut soojh boojh key dimaag lagana hoga.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    As Gopi Thomas said brilliantly- denuking Pakistan is number 1 priority. And I know that USA and Israel must have a ling term plan for it, and somewhere, deep down in RAW and in the Indian forces, I think there must be some hawks who are on the case.
    Otherwise as Bala said, a nuclear incident is not an impossibilty

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Dr Pankaj , Mirchandani and Shoeb, your views please

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr mishra

    Conservative estimates are that Pakistan has close to 100 war heads.

    Don’t you think that logistics of usurping every one of the 100 weapons is going to be extremely challenging.

    What do you think is likely to happen when US/Israel grab one or two of these lethal weapons.

    Where do you think the remainder would fall once Pakistan Army realises that some of their N weapons were being grabbed.

    I hope you do not me offering my views rather out of turn.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    which is why Ravi, as Bala said above- THE MOST SENSIBLE SENTENCE IN THE BLOG SO FAR- the risk of a nuclear holocaust cannot be discounted.
    As denuking Pak has to be a joint US, Israeli, Indian, and I daresay a European joint venture. If Europe is divided, then Britain will definitely go along. There are hawks here who absolutely loathe Pakistan, particularly after 7/7 and after seeing what the base Pakistani immigrant has done to their beautiful country by turning it into fundamentalist ghettoes like Oldham, Leeds, East Ham, Luton etc

    shan Reply:

    in response to ravi , self confessed ISI Agent
    If israel and usa decide to take off the nukes, they will not send in the seals to land ,and then collect souvenir . Missiles will pouring in like RAIN DROPS and B52 and B2 stealth fighter will drop bombs which will produce huge crater , so no movement is possible.I have no idea if the war heads are loaded onto missiles or not ,even if they are it cannot reach US or Israel.If they still bull shit , then a few nuclear tipped tomahawk will see pakistan returned to stone age .
    But long before that massive bombing of the place , can let the experts land and NULLIFY the nukes by removing critical components or destroying the electronic circuitry, YOU DONT NEED TO PHYSICALLY CARRY IT ON YOUR KANDHA(shoulders)

    Ravi Reply:

    Firstly, if that is the case then why has the US and Israel not done that.

    If it was that easy then What are they waiting for?

    Secondly Pakistan will Bomb India, to bring it into the war.

    shan Reply:

    @ISIAgent and Shan’s Kuttar(Ravi)
    US did not bomb the hell out of pakistan immediately after 9/11,but did in Afghanistan.
    The americans told them cooperate else we will send you to STONE AGE.
    The above fact is not figment of my imagination or clairvoyance , but heard from the horses mouth (Musharaff) in a BBC newsnight programme.
    Similarly when israel took out ZIA , it did not bomb , just send a box full of MANGOES on the aircraft.
    Just like US killed PORNOMA in abottabad.
    So another 9/11 , YOUR “ishq ka khazana” , will be DISMEMBERED,there is absolutely no doubt , infact PLANS HAVE BEEN ALREADY DRAWN BY US ARMY TOP BRASS(Source the book , Obama’s War by Bob Woodyard)

    Ravi Reply:

    Keep dreaming

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    Nuclear war should be avoided at every cost. what ever, we hindus have in this world, is here in India, while Pakistan’s culture, religious places are located in Arabian peninsula. Having said that, everything, short of Nuclear war should be attempted as Pakistan is intrinsically arch enemy of India and will never be placated by any gesture. It has to be managed in best political or corporate wise or militarily. Dismemberment should be an option but only when it serves any purpose. We can not have Indians ruling them, but we can have reasonable Pakistanis managing their affairs and not this Zia Band Bundobust.

    shan Reply:

    @ISIAgent, keep watching porn in abottabad , till the end comes

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Mishra,
    When I say do not engage Pakistan in any shape, I mean do not engage the Pak government.
    Its wilfully dishonest and is the begging wing of the army/isi.
    Its wastage of time to talk to Pak government, which must be isolated and quarantined diplomatically.

    Once you talk to thugs and cheats, you give them a measure of respectability.
    If you must talk, you must publicly declare that you are going to talk to a criminal entity and have no misconceptions or false notions about it.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajiv, you are profoundly mistaken.pakistani civilian govt without the meddling of military, will usher in peace in no time. but civilian govt HAS NO SAY in matters pertaining INDIA AND AFGHANISTAN.This has been procliamed by kayani the *** hole in no uncertain terms.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    I agree with you too. But enough is enough and as Rajeev said, somebody has to call this nuclear bluff. Is choohey( pakistan) ko haldi ki ganth mil gayi, aur yeh apne ko pansari samajh raha hai.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Rajeev, regarding your comment about Balochistan-
    we can dream wistfully of Baluchistan independence. It comprises ? 40% of Pak landmass, although is very thinly populated. But from the outside things seem to be under Pakistani control- maybe India should think of throwing serious money at the Bugtis- say ? 5 billion dollars.

    But then again, do not be surprised if it ends up in some minister’s secret bank account.

    I ahve spoken in the past of India’s biggest strength- our navy. If there is a confrontation, then a blockade of Karachi would hit Pak very hard. Nawaz Sharif’s book had declared that at the time of the Kargil blockade, Pak had been left with only 5 days fuel left. If only India knew then

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Baluchistan is in far worse shape than most people outside pakistan recognize. Thats my understanding after reading pak media. The cost of maintaining army and preserving pak control over baluchistan is mounting. Baluchis are targetting punjabi settlers and the situation is very grave with large parts lawless and under no central control.

    Ultimately , weather baluchistan stays in pak or not will be an economical question for rest of pakistan as the cost of holding on mounts for a debt ridden state.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajiv, again you do not understand fuckistan. If needed military budget will increase many times
    (infact army is a big lever of pakistani economy, all salaried jobs and economic activity related to supplying the military), which may need cutting the education and health budget to near zero, SO WHAT , there is no AAM ADMI CENTRIC POLITICS IN PAKISTAN, in fact there is NO POLITICS,what we see is a SHAM POLITICS a KUTPUTHLI SHOW , the strings in the hands of ARMY.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Frankly speaking, India should not be worried about Balochistan’s independence. We should be able to use Balochistan to bleed Pakistan to death and if during the process Balochistan gets liberated, it would be icing on cake.

    Secondly we should deny china access to Indian ocean by making gwadar port out of their reach.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    that makes sense. Right now we have very little leverage with pak except pleading that they do not manufacture and export terrorists. Helping the baluch financially would be one such leverage.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Rajiv, You say do not talk to Pak govt at all.
    But you know, life is strange. Before Kasab happened, Zardari was actually surprising everyone. HE WAS THE ONLY PAK LEADER IN 40 YEARS WHO SAID- we will talk to India and we will trade, Kashmir cannot keep the peace process hostage.
    Imagine that!!!!!!!!!

    Unfortunately, within a few months, someone put the srews on him, ISI or mullahs. And he backed down. And then Kasab happened, and the rest is history.
    Anyway, proves my point – you got to talk to everyone. Dont know when where you strike gold.

    (my pakistani friends here tell me Zardari has a big thing for call girls- kind of fits in- cant imagine a laundiyabaaj having a jehadi mindset

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    he would want his virgins here, not in the afterlife. Same applies for Gilani- there is a famous youtube vid of him pawing the delicious Sherry Rahman

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    This proves my point. USA and west said that thy would not give financial aid to military dictatorship. So ISI/Pak army have allowed this civilian government as a ‘begging wing of the Pak army” to collect alms/aid/weapons for the army. These guys know it , everyone knows it.
    There is no productive purpose about talking to these clowns and each of them is a consummate con-man.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    ———————————–
    Baluchistan
    ————————————
    This piece from Pak media paints the correct picture of the current state of affairs.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/174433/the-terribly-sad-state-of-balochistan/

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajiv, brilliant , the link is an eye opener. Though as much you underestimate RAW , I am pretty sure it is doing good job there . BUT AS THERE IS NO INTERNATION MEDIA ATTENTION , unlikely another bangladesh will happen.The army had crushed the balochis in 1971
    They killed all their sheep so as to starve them to death(Source Naipaul , beyond beleif)
    Your namesake had posted a link 14th august, showing balochis hoisting BALOCHI FLAG on the top of GOVT BUILDINGS.These baluchis can come to good use to use as a mole .

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra, your friend, Prabhat and also Vinodji would now say, “Don’t go there, Dr. Mishra!”

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I think Laundiyabaazi has nothing to do with Zardari’s desire to have good relations with India. He is lame duck president with NO POWERS so don’t go by what he says. The real master in pakistan is its Army and talking peace with Army is like asking hitler to be like Gandhi.
    Rajiv is right that we should drop this charade of dialogue and work on strategies to keep Pakistan off balance. We certainly should not let pakistan collapse but we should also make sure that it is never stable.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev,

    We too have a lame duck PM and two lame ducks can hit it off like India-Pakistan are on fire. More chances of success. What do you think?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    He has a big ‘thing’ going even for without-call girls.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    ——————————————————————————————————————————-
    India pleads to a blind begger in Karachi to punish 26/11 perpetrators.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    Dont laugh. Just read on.
    If you follow the trial in Chicago of Daood Gilani (hadley) and hussain, it becomes abundantly clear that top officers from Pak army and ISI were directing the attack and planning/financing it. Current Pak president Kayani was in charge of ISI before he became president and Pasha was in charge when 26/11 happened. Only a fool would beleive that ISI officers would launch one of their biggest attacks on India, without approval of their topmost bosses.

    So what has India done in response ? We are pleading , requsting the Pak government, ISI, army to punish the perpetrators.

    Its like appealing to Osama bin laden to punish the perpetrators of 9/11 attack on USA.

    Okay , you may say, India has no other good option, so it much keep up this farcical, shameful charade of pleading to the perpetrators to punish themselves.

    But no. India does have a option. India should publicly acknowledge that 26/11 attack happened with the full knowledge and approval of pak army/isi and its leadership Kayani and Pasha. Then acknowledge that we cannot afford for economic reasons a war so we are helpless about punishing, prosecuting or apprehending the perpetrators of 26/11.

    All we can do if beef up our intelligence gathering system. Beef up our security. Make India a better place for all communities. But please do not keep up this charade of talking to the same guys who slapped you, pleading them to find the slapper.
    It would be better, if you pleaded with the one eyed begger in Karachi to apprehend and punish the 26/11 attackers.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajiv, It is absolutely NOT TRUE that india cannot do anything. But the ripe moment has passed , and it may be american request to india that postponed it. THERE IS NOT AN IOTA OF DOUBT THAT INDIA CAN CAUSE CONSIDERABLE DAMAGE , though i am not sure if it can hoist Indian flag in Islamabad. The problem is even if they overran pak army , WHAT NEXT.And this is the problem .

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    latest news, because u have no religion,in geeta they are kept outside 4 caste hence their murder is not sin,

    Rich and educated Indian parents are increasingly aborting a second girl child and instead waiting for a boy, driving 90% of the country’s citizens into zones with sex ratios that are unnaturally and often dangerously low. The sex ratio for second-born children in families where the first-born is a related stories
    Woman thrown out for giving birth to girls
    girl has dropped overall from 906 girls per 1000 boys in 1990 to 836 in 2005, new research published in the journal Lancet today shows.

    But this low ratio has fallen even lower to just over 750 girls for 1000 boys among the richest 20 % families, and to barely above 700 for families where the mother has over 10 years of education

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    rajiv,26/11 was joint venture of cia raw and isiand hindu zoinists.to kill karkare,a socialist brhmn and his team ,investigating on hindu terrorists.and pressurize pakistan to attack his own people in waziristan.

    WHY INDIA DID NOT OPPOINTED ENQUIRY COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE TRUTH.EUROPEAN MEDIA CALL KASAB,GUNMAN NOT TERRORIST.his demand for re- checking the cd of cst station through international lab is not met by court.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Whosoever did the attack on the naval base, and taken out the two PC-Orions have done a great service to India. These maritime surveillabce aircraft were constantly spying on our submarine movements. I remember at the end of the Kargil war the Pakistanis had already left the peaks. Our air force was itching to get even with the Pakistanis. They wanted revenge for Capt. Ajay and for NIchiketa who was taken POW.Vajpayee gave them the green signal,a nd the air force shot down a PC-Orion deep inside Pakistani kutch.The air force special forces went into Pakistan and recovered parts of the crashed PC-Orion and presented it to Vajpayee the next morning. And, this was after the official end of hostilities.
    Messrs. Rajiv and Rajeev are on FIRE.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We are yet to avenge brutal killing of Capt. Nachiketa. India should get hold of some pakistani terrorists or soldiers and killing them brutally by taking out their eyes.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vaidya, you taken some liberty with the truth. That aircraft had STRAYED into the indian airspace , and i think this was before kargil, for mia nawaz sharif was pm. The aircraft was asked to land , tried to run away , whence it was chased and the missile hit it at the edge of the border , thus it wnt into a tailspin and crashed just inside pakistan.Fuckistan as usual made lot of noise , but there was irrevocable radar signature.

    [Reply]

    jai vaidya Reply:

    Shan Nawaz Sharif was PM during Kargil not ‘before”.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    http://youtu.be/fKiQboyDMUo
    Indira Gandhi Grtting peeved at a pesky BBC reporter. before hostilities began in 1971

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Rajeev,Nichiketa was swapped backgk to India in exchage of some jihadi

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    I am sure you meant Sourabh Kalia

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    My mistake..I stand corrected.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    great war cabinet led by doc mishra and the 2 rajivs. Some sense at last rather than childish ‘lets hit them now’ rhetoric. As Mishraji said yesterday, like Rusell Petrrs description of Indians brawling, flailing fists, no connection.
    I fully agree with rajiv- Balochistan is our best strategy. And doc M, you just maybe right about bringing serious moolah to the table- if we threw billion dollars at them dont think Pakistan could cope.
    somebody should urgently bring back those billions in Swiss banks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan and Rajiv

    Balochistan is indeed good strategy. But there is a lot happening elsewhere in Pakistan which can be capitalised on. The Pushtoons who were never really under anyone’s control can be “helped’ to get their freedoms.

    The sindhis and Mohajirs too need to be freed from the suppression by Punjabis. Why should we not start internet forums for them as they have suffered unimaginable torture ever since Pakistan was created ?

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Just saw RAVI’S tasteless joke on Indians. The man has anti hindu anti India chips programmed into him.
    Balwinder paaji please note. Kill ravi with one of your jokes.
    ASLO FOLKS, PL NO ONE RESPOND TO TAJENDER AKA ramavtar. As Dr Pankaj# said above- there seem to be 3-4 ppl behind that one key board.
    IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE TAJENDER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    Dear Vinod ji, please block Tajender- what do others think ?

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    We do not need to block anybody , this is not ISLAMIC THEOCRACY, this is LIBERAL DEMOCRACY, perhaps too liberal too democracy. Stifling opinion is a monopoly of current islam only SUBMISSION.As Voltaire said “I will not agree with you ,but I will protect your right to disagree with me”

    [Reply]

    jai vaidya Reply:

    AMEN Shan I totaly agree.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Dear Vinod
    Oh o block Tajender- just drowns the good posts out. Riswan is correct.
    By the way, hope you liked my chutkula below, I know- a it non veg. Hope sir you dont mind.
    Balwinder

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @balwinder sandhu
    Nothing hurts when stated in jest :) ) Hope Ravi agrees and takes it in the right spirit

    tajender Reply:

    dont forget that historically u were nothing more than scavangers.offering ur sisters`and mothers to british army to get jobs,
    in india u are considered most corrupt race.
    in 1984 brhmnst showed u ur auqat.

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    yes Rizwan — I hope tejender gts blocked. He ruined Zia’s blog; he will ruin this too

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    why has he fkd ur mthr.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Inshah Allah!

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE TAJENDER

    son of a b1 tc.h i told u not to take my name.i know chamoleons like u very much.i have not fk ur mthr or abba.kuttey sale.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    In US a Pakistani bought a big house next to an American family.
    One day he went next door and told this American guy
    “” we both are same – you have a big house – I have big house “”

    after few days again he went there and told him

    “” we both are same – you have big car – I have big car “”

    next week he went there again

    “” we both are same – your childeren go to an American university – my childeren also study at American university ‘

    Next day American guy went to Pakistanis house and told him

    ” You are better than me – your neighbour is an American but unfortunately by neighbour
    is a Pakistani.”"

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    he he , great. read my own chutkula below

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Mohan;
    This is classy joke.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Mohan,

    an excellent joke. I tend to believe that no American will ever come near an Indian and say the same thing to him.

    I also get the full import, only now, of why the Pakistanis claim to be Indians in America.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    Rajeev,

    Tks for the interesting links.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    oye hoi, rajiv and Mishraji, defence ministers of India. bhai wah, some good suffestions.

    But wait, our young Turk riswan has picked up something on Indian radar. A pakistani has sneaked across the border and set off a bomb in India.
    Not to worry- its only stink bomb. By RAVI.
    Good joke RAVI , you do ahte India dont you.
    Le mera bhi chutkula sun-

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    An American, a Frenchman, an Englishman and an Indian were cruising in the Mediterranean Sea.

    One evening as they were relaxing upon the deck, the American opened a large cigar box and offered every one a cigar. The remainder he chucked into the sea. As every one looked at him with bemused faces he said, “don’t worry there are plenty more boxes back home”.

    Moments later the French men opened a bottle of Champagne and offered every one a glass. As they were enjoying champagne, the Frenchman picked up the rest of the case and hoyed it over the rails, while saying “don’t worry there are plenty more cases back home”.

    Seeing this the INDIAN looked worried, realising that it was his turn next. The Indian was Mr Vonod Sharma- quick as a flash, he picked up RAVI and threw him over board. Every one shouted why did you do that.

    He said “don’t worry there are plenty more SECRET Pakistanis on this blog”.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    he he

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    as RAVI started sinking to the bottom of the Arabian sea, he thought, okay so I am going to die. No problem- I am happy, I have abused hindus and India and their Gods for years. I am a proud jehadi. Nothing can be worse than death can there ??

    poor ravi, how wrong he was, for waiting for him at the bottom of the sea was OSAMA. Sex starved Osama who had been chewing herbal viagra for weeks.

    As he enveloped RAVI in a bear hug, ravi screamed- OSAMA, pl Sir mainey aapka namak khaya hai.

    Osama replied- ‘Ab **** kha !!’

    rAVI shrieked- ‘Osama no, how adre you. Osama nooooooooo
    OUCH THAT HURTS OSAMA, stop it……’

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    to be contd….
    serious music in background….

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    for once you have cracked a real joke about Ravi getting ghandooed by Osamaji. Now they can have 36 virgins each.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Balwinder and Shenoy,

    Err… do you think Ravi will end up as the sixth wife (?) of Osama ???

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Friends;
    Even if you disagree with Ravi; please treat him decently. My request.

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    Happy for you to take me to task.

    But here are two questions for you to consider.

    1st. It was a joke.

    2nd, Where do you think I got it from.

    Hint, it was told to me, not once but many times, by various Englishman who thought it was funny.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    @ Balwinder and Shenoy,

    Err… do you think Ravi will end up as the sixth wife (?) of Osama ???

    Or, may be as the midwife?

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy\\

    Are you suggesting that a creature called Ravi-bin – loda will soon come to earth? :D

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~ :D ~~ T URD-INDER PROVES THAT THE ISI IS A DUMB CRUMBLING ORGANISTION~~ :D ~~

    Many an Indian has been fooled into believing that the ISI is some sort of perfect terror outfit which
    cannot be matched by RAW since they are the real face of Pakistan and not accountable to anyone.

    But see the moth foam emitting out of this fake Tajendra (or ****-inder if you please). He is obviously here on a mission — to create a wedge between various Indian religions like Sikhs and HIndus and Sikhs and Mulsims or Hindus and Muslims. That is why he has deliberately taken a SIkh name.

    But seing the quality of his fulminations, it is obvious that the ISI is DUMB ! :D

    I have tried reverse brainwashing him, With little success. But at least the quality of his mind and the level of propoganda he unleashes is obvious to all. Just shows the level of the ISI, which besides being a ruthless terror outfit has little to show…

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Vinodji,

    if Bill Clinton was greeted in the way our MPs did, they were expressing their happiness at seeing a white skinned world leader in our parliament.

    The scene was no different when George Bush came and addressed our people. Only, it was more vociferous, exuberant and hail-fellow-well-met kind.

    I do not understand, why, as a journalist of considerable standing, you should feel ashamed about this behaviour of our MPs.

    Everybody on this blog has been telling everybody else that the armed forces should be left out from the ‘tu-tu, main-main’ kind of mud slinging. Unfortunately, you have broken that unwritten law here by blaming our security forces for Kargil.

    This one episode happened when the NDA was in power. Now, will you care to google for the lapses that have occured during the excruciatingly long reign of the congress party, whether in Kashmir (repeatedly), on the border with China, in Sri Lanka, or even in Mumbai on 26/11?

    Do you have the grace to admit that you have breached the convention?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Whatever Congress or its mouthpiece media says about Kargil, the fact remains NDA responded in an appropriate way to regain occupied land but it should have been little more aggressive.

    BUT had kargil happened during Congress rule, we would have heard MMS repeat “Not a blade of grass grows there…so let kargil be under pakistan”.

    The chinese are nibbling away territory in arunachal. This has been raised by local MP from Arunachal and corp commanders but our spineless PM & his cabinet sees no such thing happening. This is the attitude that has cost India loss of 45% of Kashmir territory. We may loose Tawang in a decade or so if we don’t stand up to Chinese. The chinese have built roads right up to Arunachal border, it also has roads connecting it to Nepal. Now it can attack India right from Ladakh to Nepal Border to Arunachal….It is serious but everyone is mystified with cheap chinese imports.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    @Vijay,
    You are right we can also use Pashtuns, Sindhis and Mohajirs to keep pakistan occupied but you should know that all three communities have been loyal to pakistan in the past and some are still loyal.
    Whereas Balochis have never considered themselves pakistanis. We have to only ‘MORALLY’ support balochis pakistani style.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    : D

    They may have been loyal to Pal-shit-stan in the past… but we can change them to be loyal to themselves. :D

    Our aim is to make them free . In 1994 PVN cultivated Altaf bhai and Sindh and Mohajirastan was on the cards, till soft hearted Pak lover IK gujral sold it all for jhelum diplomacy and a kabab platter….

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    OK, both Balwinder and Shan are silent and I will consider this as consent.
    A sardar and a bengali got into argument that which community has had more freedom fighters. It was decided that both of them have a right to pluck a hair from each other’s beard, after taking a name of freedom fighter.Obviouly, sardarji had a luxuriant growth and moshay had a sparse one. Moshay said, Khudi ram bose and plucked one hair, sardar sahib said, Bhagat singh and plucked one hair from Moshay, names of shachindra lahiri, lala lajpat rai and few more kept on being exchanged and rewarded accordingly but it was clear by the worried look on sardar sahib’s face that he is finding it difficult to compete with Moshay. In typical Nihang spirit, he jumped at moshay, grabbing all the remaining hair , plucking them at once, shouting Jalianwala bagh.
    Moral: nihang se Panga mat lo.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    Jokes aside but we must rise above this regional mindset. It is an established fact that majority of revolutionaries came from Punjab, UP, Bengal and Maharashtra whereas as rest of India was more in Gandhian mode.
    Netaji is perhaps the most respected freedom fighter in present day India. I am pretty sure 99.99% AWARE Indians will not utter a single word of disrespect for Netaji and same goes for Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Sukhdev.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev,
    I had risen above regionalism at very young age. I overcame my religious prejudices in my late teens, I am still a nationalist but in a very broad sense, just now, I think about not only humanity but nature as well,in all sincerity. A green person(Not ****).

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    I was never regional courtesy my father’s stint in Army. I did not know about the caste till I applied for admission after 12th grade. I did not know major differences between hindus and muslims till I went to muslim majority college and saw discrimination against hindu students first hand. I have seen muslims from very close quarters and have realised that when they are among majority (hindu) group, they behave decently but once they are among their own people, they deride other faiths and show total disrespect for others. Even a muslim from IIT behaves exactly like muslim moulvi when talking about other religions.
    But still I maintain friendship with many muslims fully knowing that they have totally different view of others when in private.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    I am happy to know your inclinations in life and this makes a life fuller. My two generations were in Army, Navy and Airforce, holding high positions. Their services extended from 2nd world war, covering Africa, Burma, Bangla desh and Sri Lanka. My younger broother recently retired from Army, as a full colonel.
    Please do not think that I am bragging or any thing like that, I am just stating facts and Army has taught us many good things of life, including no regionalism, No communalism and such traits.

    Rajeev Reply:

    “Army has taught us many good things of life, including no regionalism, No communalism and such traits.”

    Fully agree but I don’t have much confidence in muslims because they view everything thru prism of Islam. If they could keep their religion private, I’d never have a harsh word for them.

    I wish we had people from IAF and IN in our family. Nice to know there are some people from same background.

    shan Reply:

    @pankaj, the joke does fall flat on its face. Jalianwala , they were no revolutionary, they were ordinary folks assembled for ?baishaki and were massacred by Dyer.
    Coming to jallianwala , it was TAGORE who returned his knighthood in protest
    YET THE OBSCIENCE SHOWN TO QUEEN CIRCA 2006 BY THE SIKHS IN GENERAL AND BARNALA AND AKALI SCUMS WAS SHAMEFUL.
    The same queen during her visit to calcutta circa 1960 was shown black flags.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shan,
    I agree with you. If we use same logic then everyone who died in Bengal famine too is revolutionary.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    This was a joke and I took your permission. I do not believe in regionalism at all. Infact, if you read this joke carefully, you will find that Moshay had made sardar sahib worried as moshay had many more names with him. jo kaum apne par hans sakti hai, wahi jinda kaum hai. If it is bothering you, I will say a joke about North Indians. I will not take any body’s permission this time, as I am North Indian myself.
    When a miserly north Indian went to a Pub and after having his drinks, left 3 rupees( in todays value) to waiter, Waiter had a serious face and told him, Sir, these 3 rupees tell me some thing about you. This first rupee says that you are a north Indian, Good, said the customer. And what does this second rupee tells you? waiter said, sir, you are a bachelor. Wow, I am impressed, and what does this third rupee tells you, asked the customer, Waiter said gravely, that Sir, your father was also a bachelor.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Shan baby Shan…

    Develop a sense of humour baby !! Pankaj cracked a joke… now dont take it further and create a scene that Bengal has been insulted ! :D

  • http://- Rajeev

    @Shenoy,
    “Vajapayee called Indira Gandhi an incarnation of Durga after the ‘71 war. But look at what the congress does with our Kargil victory. It is not even prepared to accept that India won the mini-war.”

    There is no need for us to stoop to the level of anti-national congress in this regard. Our Armed forces are above party politics. The congress has always treated Army with disrespect except for the period under Indira Gandhi. The good thing is that our armed forces are apolitical and keep themselves away from dirty politicians. There are some bad eggs in Army especially in the corps that deal with civillians who are engaged in corruption but our fighting force is honest to the core.

    Kargil intrusion was pure breach of trust by Pakistanis. They occupied our side of bunkers when they were deserted as has been convention for winters practiced by both sides. Actually Kargil was a revenge for 1984 Siachen Galcier capture by Indians. I must say Kargil was an intelligence failure not a military one. The thing that distressed me most was loss of many soldiers in the initial days of conflict & to me it looked like our army was pretty rusted at that point of time. The IAF with its targetted bombing helped army in big way to regain the heights but all in all it was not a great performance.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajeev,

    I agree with you that Kargil was a so so victory, as India was fighting an already entrenched enemy from an utterly disadvantageous position. Since it was also the only theatre of war, the performance was less than satisfactory.

    But, what boils one’s blood is when people make disparaging comments from their armchair positions, like Vinodji has done. In 1965 too, the Indian government came to know of Pak army’s deep incursions inside our Kashmir only when Abdul Hamid, a nomadic goat-herd informed the army units. Have we ever discussed that failure of intelligence in any great detail as in Kargil?

    And what about 26/11? Was it not an intelligence failure? Was it not the failure of our coast guard? Have we apportioned blame to them in sufficient measure? Has there been discussion of this failure in the parliament?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Congress is holy cow for most of the journalists in India so you never see them taking congress to task for shameful 1962 defeat, 1965 stalemate, 1972 shimla talks, Khalistani insurgency with the help of pakisan, chinese encroachment in Arunachal, 26/11 and many more such disasters to come.
    Had BJP committed so many blunders, it would have ceased to exist but congress is so entrenched in every walk of life that it is impossible to remove this cancer. All our institutions except for defence forces are throughly congressised. Even people sitting in corporate and media are either congressi or brought up in congressi culture. Vinod Sharma is product of congressi culture. He got his journalistic training eating out of congressmen’s hands…and unfortunately he doesn’t even realize that he has become a congressi propagandist rather than a journo.

    India is perhaps the only country in the world whose large portion of border is in dispute and unfortunately it is in weaker position vis-a-vis pakistan and china.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    May 25th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Mishraji;
    Nuclear war should be avoided at every cost. what ever, we hindus have in this world, is here in India, while Pakistan’s culture, religious places are located in Arabian peninsula. Having said that, everything, short of Nuclear war should be attempted as Pakistan is intrinsically arch enemy of India and will never be placated by any gesture. It has to be managed in best political or corporate wise or militarily. Dismemberment should be an option but only when it serves any purpose. We can not have Indians ruling them, but we can have reasonable Pakistanis managing their affairs and not this Zia Band Bundobust.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    what an irony! on a blog named SEPARATED AT BIRTH, we are discussing ways to dismember that country, which for many in India is still a land of poetry, gazals, Lahori culture and yes, yummy kabaabs. Some of them, religiously trudge to the Wagah border every year to light candles for an abiding love and bhai chaara. Despite the fact that the number of these romantics has steadily gone down and has reached single digits after 26/11, they persist with the ritual with religious fervour.

    Also, the fact that all these yearnings for friendship and tasty kabaabs are only on our side of the border. Therefore, my point is simply this: Is it right to ignore these die-hard romantics altogether?

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy sahab;
    OK, once upon a time , present pakistan was part of India and there are many people of older generation, who have fond memories of their childhood in that part of geography. Every one like his whole body, but when part of it become gangrenous/ cancerous, it has to be sacrificed.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    # Pankaj and Shenoy

    Coming from a family with origins in Sialkot and Lahore, let me state that many of ur older journalists like Khuswant SIngh, Kuldip nayar and maybe even Vinod Sharma suffer from a stockhold syndrome.

    Their forefathers needed to run away from Pakistan as did mine.. yet they end up glorifying the very forces which made Hindus and Sikhs leave Paksitan en-toto.

    Sad, but true.

    Finally India Pakistan relations can only mend if

    a) The faulty legacy of creating a country by killing minorites is recognised by Pakistan

    b) It actually shits down the ISI and other terror outfits.

    Otherwise it is just wishful thinking….

  • http://- Rajeev

    @Mr. Ramchandani,
    I think you are from SIndh so an you tell us why was hindu majority Tharparkar district in 1947 (now it is muslim majority), was given to pakistan. It legally belonged to hindu sindhis. Had we got Tharparkar and adjoining hindu majority districts, Indian sindhis would have their own state in India.
    I feel really sad for Sindhi because they are the only community who lost 100% of their ancestral land. What was Kriplani doing then?

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Yes, we did lose 100% of our ancestral land. But I always thanked my parents who took a wise decision albiet late to not to stay in Pakistan and we migrated to India in 1962.

    And frankly where Sindh state is concerned, people of my age in my community really do not care for that. We are very happy as we are .

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What do your parents say on this issue? Why was Sindh not partitioned?

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rajeev india was in two part.sindh and hind.hind was aryan.first carvan of aryan came on the bank of ganga.

    at the of partion sindh was given to muslims and hind as given to aryan invaders as they had not much history there.

    tajender Reply:

    what is there in sindh.except desert.u are in green country and sucking the blood of its inhabitantsready to fly to dubai and japan.dont go to china many of ur brothers are in jail with very bleak future.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    think you are from SIndh so an you tell us why was hindu majority Tharparkar district in 1947 (now it is muslim majority),

    tharparkar is hindu majority even now.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    May 25th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Friends;
    Even if you disagree with Ravi; please treat him decently. My request.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Friends;
    I think Ravi is a bit hot headed and has a tendency of _ Jumping to the conclusion_; I feel that is very detrimental to his health, if by any chance he is standing on a terrace of a highrise building.
    I am the only person, he has abused personally, in his first post to me, calling me, Cha…..
    But I do not hold any grudge against him. I have better chance of becoming a chief minister than an average person.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    He has abused almost everyone not just you but I agree with you that we should let him express his hate.
    I exposed his true identity in previous blogs so my mission is over. He stands exposed with no standing whatsoever. He can post all his anti-India propaganda using his true identity. I have absolutely no problem but post non-sense with fake identity is definitely a big NO-NO..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj#1

    I am sorry.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    it is OK man.

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dr Pankaj, loved your joke. Rajeev, I have noticed you take life too seriously. Please joke is joke, there is no regionalism or casteism here.

    Mirchandani, your joke about Pakistani was vaary gud

    And Mishraji- nice one- Dr Mishra, UK Reply: @ Balwinder paaji, now I know why Sikhs wear turbans. To avoid flying beluns”"”

    But seriously she does that one more time, and I will upgrade to new younger model. Let’s see the HT ads now, hmm, ‘convent educated, homely virgin…’ looks yummy to me

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    ” Rajeev, I have noticed you take life too seriously”…

    I enjoy good jokes..look at the blog links that I have posted above.

    [Reply]

    Mohan Ramchandani Reply:

    Paaji,

    I am Ramchandani not Mirchandani

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Joke.

    A pakistani in London , uneducated and poor, needed cash to feed his growing family.
    So he sat on the street corner, with a poster that read
    “need money to feed hungry children, sick wife and ailing father”

    He got no donations, people just ignored him or gave dirty looks.

    Then someone advised him to change the poster to read

    “Need 5 more dollars to buy air-ticket to go back to Pakistan”

    His collection box over flowed with generous donations.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajeev, my mate . this is no joke THIS IS A FACT. In my town centre there were pakistanis with collection box for pakistan flood victims. I DID NOT SEE A SINGLE PERSON GIVINIG A SINGLE PENNY

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I believe you…No one has any sympathy for this two timing b*tch called pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Balwinder you are one mean dude !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Your joke on Osama-Ravi marriage was 2 cruel!!!!!!!!!!!
    respect to the mannnnnnnnnnnnnnn
    ++++++=
    @ Doc pankaj- Dont worry about Rajeev or Shan’s reaction to the other joke, personally I thoght the joke about the north Indian was super, and I am a north Indian. keep them coming uncle
    ++++++++++++++

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    @ shenoy, pl do not underestimate the number of peaceloving ppl on the other side. Feed them, give them fertiliser, let their numbers grow.

    As Mishraji said above- ….Never forget that there are hundreds of journalists, students and leaders in Pakistan who think like us. Shocked are you? Yes, I know they form 0.0001 % of the population but they are imp.Who are they=
    Pervez Hoodbhoy
    Nadeem Piracha
    Cowasjee
    Fasi Zaka
    George Fulton, married to a Pakistani
    Khurram
    Raza Rumi
    Burney etc etc
    They spend evry living moment of their life shouting down the demagogues, the hate merchants. Sometimes I wonder that Hoodbhoy is still alive.
    And how could I forget Hasan Nissar and Najaam Sethi
    UNQUOTE

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    most of these names mean not a lot to me, but I saw this Najam Sethi video on utube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exAlTqrfRa4

    Truth of 1965 and 1971 war between india pakistan by pakistani journalist

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rizwan,
    Finally you are watching and reading…Pakistan has much better breed of journos compared to India.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Bottom line is nothing will happen , so long pak army is there and that army is the tool of punjabi colonialism to rule over its subjects, sindhis,mohajirs, baluch tec.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Here are some one liners that I got from internet.

    1. Did you hear about the other latest Pakistani invention?

    A. The new automatic Pakistani parachutes.

    2. Why did Nawaz Sharief decide to have only 4 kids?

    A. Because he’d read in the newspaper that 1 out of every 5 babies born in the world today is Chinese.

    3. How do you sink a Pakistani battleship?

    A. Put it in water.

    4. Did you hear the news about a 747 which crashed in a cemetery in Karachi?

    A.The Pakistani officials have so far retrieved 3000 bodies.

    5. Did you hear about the Pakistani admiral who wanted to be buried at sea on his death?

    A. Five Pakistani sailors died digging his grave.

    6. Did you hear about the Pakistani family that froze to death outside a theatre?

    A. They were waiting to see the movie “Closed for the winter”.

    7. Did you hear about the Pakistani Air-Force helicopter crash?

    A. The pilot felt cold, so he turned off the fan.

    8. Why do Pakistani dogs have flat noses?

    A. They get it from chasing parked cars.

    9. Did you hear about the Pakistani who studied diligently for 5 days?

    A. He was scheduled to take a urine test.

    10. How do you save a drowning Pakistani?
    A. Take your foot off his head!

    11. What do Pakistanis in London use for contracepives?
    A. Their personalities!

    12. Have you ever seen Pakistani war heroes ?
    A. Neither has Pakistan.

    Pakistani military researchers have recently ordered for the enlargement of the hatches on tanks and other armoured vehicles. This is so they can be more easily abandoned in enemy territory.

    A **** news editor got 20 years in prison for calling the Prime Minister a fool. 5 years for the scandal and 15 for revealing a state secret !

    An insect falls into a mug of beer….
    Englishman : Throws his mug away and w alks out
    American : Takes the insect out and drinks the beer
    Chinese : Eats the insect and throws the beer away
    Indian : Sells the beer to the American and insect to the Chinese and gets a new mug of beer..
    Pakistani : Accuses the Indian for throwing insect into his beer. Relates the issue to Kashmir. Asks the Chinese for Military aid. Takes a loan from the American to buy one more mug of beer.

    How do you stop a Pakistani tank ?
    Shoot the men who are pushing it.

    How do you disable Pakistani missiles ?
    Cut the rubber band

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This is my original joke that I first posted on pakistani forums in 1999-

    How do pakistanis launch missiles-
    1. They put missile in Camel’s mouth.
    2. A soldier stands right behind camel.
    3. On count of three, soldiers bites hard on Camel’s scrotum.
    4. Camel cries in pain, missile is launched having range 1000 km.

    How do pakistanis increase missile range-
    1. They put missile in Camel’s mouth.
    2. A soldier stands right behind camel.
    3. For every 100 km range increase, another solders stands behind fellow soldier.
    3. On count of three, first soldier bites hard on Camel’s scrotum and simultaneously all soldiers standing behind bite hard on scrotum of fellow soldiers.
    4. Camel and all soldiers cry together in pain, missile is launched having range 1000 km+increased range.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This should make Balwinder happy-

    Scene: trench warfare on Pakistan border, Sikh regiment on one side,suddenly Kartar Singh gets a bright idea, shouts! “Oye Abdul!” Guy pops up from other trench “Kya hai be” BANG! He’s shot dead! “Oye Karim” 2 guys stand up, “Kya hai saala” BANG BANG both are killed! “Oye Mustafa!” 2 more, BANG-BANG! Another two down! Pakis get worried, they think saala Sardarji log, when did they get so smart? Decide to try it themselves. “Abe Gurdev Singh” silence “Oye Gurdev Singh!!” silence “O bhai, Gurdev Singh!” “Oye Gurdev Singh ko kaun bula rahahai re?” **** gets up, “It’s me,Ashraf!” BANG!

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Rajeev for jokes galore. yes quality jokes are very refreshing and takes away boredom of routine.
    I have attended a show of peter Russel, and though his approach is very rustic, make full use of his hands and the cordless microphone, with its peculiar shape and his targeted audience is in hall in bifg numbers and they roar. Jokes should be taken in that spirit.
    I likes your one liners and one liners have their own beauty.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Now that I am in jokes mood…here is a video that’s worth watching…
    Arab on a treadmill.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ3JrpXxtQg

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Another one…promise this is last for today…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDSgEwDKz7U&feature=related

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev
  • http://- Rajeev
  • http://- Rajeev

    Very funny pakistani reporter
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJKtJF92xBM

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This is eye opener for people who think pakistani women are all docile and burqa wearing…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_Wa2Rmq-4

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Funny Pakistani English movie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OVGJFd5Gig

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~ :D ~~ ISI DA KACHCHE VICH VAG RAYA HAI ~~ :D ~~ “D D ~~

    Pardon me for being risque, but I had to use this Punjabi expression as they are very few parallel in any other language. :D :D

    The ISI is at its lowest point ever evil cobra Gen Zia seized opportunity and used the American aid for Afghanistan for creating terror in India.

    Today as US which threw peices of stale bread at its slave Pakistan is being replaced by a new master of the stray dag, China, the ISI is at its lowest point.

    My contract in RAW TELLS ME THAT the ISI should be and is genuinly scared as the Chinese are very very demanding masters who want an account of each yuan they would throw at a begging Pakistan.

    This makes the ISI leak in in its undies !! :D :D

    With headley singing like a canary or a mynah, how should India ram its advantage thru????? :D :D

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    In the Chicago trial of Pakistani Rana Hussain, a taped phone conversation reveals that
    Rana wanted 9 dead Pakistani terrorists to be given Nishan-e-Haider, Pak’s highest military honour. Transcripts being read out in court

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv

    Rana’s words only reflect that for the Pakistanis, the heroes are murderers, jehadis and other tur-ds :D

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    Its a [pity that the establishment in India does not talk in a singular fasion as do the Americans or Isrealis when it come to 26/11 or the holocaust.

    If we were united against terror we can make so much noise all over the world so that the UN decide to ban aid to begging Pakostan till it decides to to ban the IS oer send Shija Pash to Gauntamano Bay,,,,

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    Rajiv

    What is more dumb is the way some idiots in the media will interivew the wives, daughters and mothers of Rana and Heasley who would cry on camera and plead that Rana and headley are innocent.

    Then the mother India of these fake journos will take over. They will write tearful aritcles that headley and Rana are innocents being implicated by global forces of imperialism. Digvijay and Mani Sankt will definately take this stance, Hipe HT won’t fall to this level.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    A bjp president in his 12-page opening address highlighted the following demands:

    (1) Road leading to Amarnath Shrine be nationalised, (2) displaced Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) be rehabilitated in special enclaves in the Valley, (3) abolition of Article 370 of the constitution conferring special status for Kashmir.

    BJP has not even a single economic programme. The killer Modi is the Hindu Hriday Samrat. If India becomes Hindu Rashtra, all the problems will be solved. This was the only song heard at the meeting.

    BJP’s sole single programme is to strengthen Brahminical cultural hegemony. Yet not even one objection came from upper castes who hiss and howl at tajender.

    ——————————————————————————–

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ TUR DINDER

    The quality of your fulminations shows that the ISI is down on its knees to appoint low briand and least educated net agents like you.

    ISI da toh sach vich kachche vich vag gaya hai ! :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    dear vijay what u have done,

    blog mein ek chimpanzee hai uska naam balwinder hai uski pooch par ek bandar baitha hai uska naam rizwan hai.now both will show their ugly teeth to u.be cautious.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    your expression is very colourful. Do I guess correctly, vag means tiger? (in Konkani too we say the same thing).

    AS Pankaj has correctly surmised, this TUR DINDER is not alone. It is a whole team affair. I think Vinod Sharma’a blog has been taken over by the ISI.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    Pl stop wild accusations or else I’d have to agree with Sandhu that you are insecure with the arrival of better bloggers who have raided your mehfil of yes men and fellow travellers.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    You are an experienced journalist and a worldly wise man, and hence I would expect you to separate the grain from the chaff. But, knowing you,I know you will believe what you want to believe.

    If there is a large influx of better bloggers, how does it make me insecure? Have you taken any security deposit for a memberhsip of your blog, that I should fear for my money being swallowed by my friend Vinod Sharma?

    The comment about ISI taking over your blog is NOT MADE IN A FLIPPANT, OFF-HANDED MANNER. I have made it with all seriousness.

    If you scroll down through the posts of this scum of the earth going by the name of Tajender and their content, style, language and also variation in all these, you too will begin to realise that there is more than a grain of truth in what I have said. The same goes for a man calling himself RAVI.

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    “The comment about ISI taking over your blog is NOT MADE IN A FLIPPANT, OFF-HANDED MANNER. I have made it with all seriousness.”

    How very illuminating.

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    “Vag” in punjabi is to leak. I think Vijay was trying to impress upon you the afliction of involuntary orgasm.

    This was not a flillipant comment it was made to induce intense hilarity.

    [Reply]

    nirav Reply:

    @BV Shenoy,

    What makes you feel Mr Vinod who comes from a ISI sympathizer party will be discomforted by its presence?

    Infact My Vinod is happy that finally he has pleased his **** handlers…how else would he appreciate people who abuse india,hinduism and hindu GODs..We never abuse Mohammed,Nanak or jesus by calling them better bloggers…He at best is a disgrace to india and especially to hindus.

    I am sure Vinod sings ..
    “mere saajan hai.n us paar, mai.n man maar, huu.N is paar
    o mere maajhii, abakii baar, le chal paar, le chal paar
    mere saajan hai.n us paar”

    Someone send this stigma to where he belongs …not NCM but LET…

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ TUR DINDER

    The quality of your fulminations shows that the ISI is down on its knees to appoint low briand and least educated net agents like you.

    ISI da toh sach vich kachche vich vag gaya hai ! :D

    ha ha ha

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    TU RD_ENDAR ACTUALLY

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    if u call me by good name,it means i am bad man.

    sangh parivar consists of murderers gangesters homosexuals hawala dealers wife swappers
    infant burners scam operators mosque breakers duplicate medicine manufacturers country sellers hate spreaders black marketeers and racketeers.

    any type of derogatory adjective is less for these vile wicked and chamoleons.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    shan……during nda rule……..Total neglect of the rural areas — particularly agriculture sector — is having devastating effect on the country. Because the rural people not only depend on agriculture for living but more than that the foodgrains to fill their hungry stomach.

    Do you know what the rulers have done? They have kicked the very stomach of the SC/ST/BCs and Muslims and made them starve. This is the result of the 60-year-old Brahminical rule. Here is a report in the country’s principal Brahminical daily, Times of India (Delhi) of June 25, 2008:

    New Delhi: The impact of a neglected agriculture sector are bound to haunt the country for long. India could become a chronic net importer of rice and wheat by 2020 if the trends are not reversed.

    Assocham has warned that India will have to increase its rice yield growth rates by 250% to ensure self-sufficiency. Simultaneously by current trends the country could fall short of 23 million tonnes of wheat by 2020 that it would need to meet through imports. The latter figures emerge out of the Indian Agricultural Research Institute’s work.

    Bhumihars of Bihar: The Brahminical rule is literally killing every part of India but the Brahminical media is not giving it publicity. And their television is diverting the attention of the hungry.

    Do you know why the Brahminical people hate agriculture? Because Brahmins are prohibited by their shastras to touch the earth. If a Brahmin touches earth he is ex-communicated. The Bhoomihars (Brahmin) of Bihar are the best example to prove this point

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    All

    Yesterday I noticed that Pankaj was hesitating in telling a joke involving a Sikh and a Bengali. Such was his sensitivity that he was gingerly seeking permission from those who he thought may take offence.

    It is in this context that I wrote the joke.

    An English friend told this joke to me, and I found it very funny and not even slightly offensive. Most self-deprecating jokes are written and delivered by Jewish people about their own religion/culture/country. I am sorry to say but that is the very essence of jokes of this genre. As a student, I heard many jokes which were said at the cost of Sikhs, by Sikhs themselves. Such harmless banter can be therapeutic.

    It is therefore quite illuminating to read much of the responses to my joke. The last line of my post gave away my reason, which was to encourage Pankaj to go head and tell it without any fear of retribution.

    The Joke :- I told this joke today to a number of my colleagues, most of who were Indian, a couple were Bangladeshis and one was Sri Lankan. Without exception, every one found it funny and many said that they had heard the joke previously in a different format as well as with different characters as the subject of it. In other words by changing the word “Indian” to a “Pakistani” the joke would still work, and had I done that my dyed in saffron foes would have been kinder in their reaction.

    I shared the reaction, the joke got here, with my colleagues and they laughed louder and longer at the reaction than they did at the joke.

    The Reaction:- It did not come as a surprise to me that I got adverse reaction, from all those people who would have negatively reacted even if what I was saying was an innocuous accurate statement, such as “Sun rises in the East”.

    So nothing new there then.

    However, what was new is that there were no negative responsse to Pankaj’s regionalist joke or even Balwinder’s “flying belans and Turbans”, which I am sure is anti Sikh. So here, Anti Sikh and Regional, Misogynistic, jokes are acceptable but a Joke at the cost of Indians is not.

    It is therefore easy for me to conclude, that had the very same joke been told by one of our dyed in saffron bloggers then it would have been substantially applauded.

    Pathetic.

    The Debate:- 72 virgins, marriage to 9 yr old daughter of a friend, bachabazi, etc. Is the regular fodder with which <dyed in saffron bloggers here vent their anti Islam spleen. This kind of twaddle here passes for intelligent debate. Sadder still is the fact that few Muslims who do venture here, silently endure such unwarranted insults. Probably for fear of being labelled SIMI/Jehadi/Etc by resident Internet bullies.

    It is to counter this type of nonsense, in a number of posts in Zia’s blog, I have pointed out that our own culture has some significant unsavoury elements. Child marriage in Rajsthan, Devdassi tradition in Andhra and Karnatka, MKG getting married at 13 and consummating it, 200 million Dalits living daily and perpetual terror. For pointing such obvious stuff, I have been diagnosed as being anti Indian and therefore Pakistani.

    Irony is that I do post under my own name, but Forensic Linguists, abundantly found here, have provided conclusive proof that I am a Pakistani. Spelling Parbhat instead of Prabhat, us/them used wrongly, in hurriedly constructed sentences, was enough for Balwinder to gleem the supposedly green tinge on my passport.

    All such declarations are more revealing about the character of the author, rather than the subject.

    Conclusion:- I do not give a tinker’s cuss as to what any of you think of me. This is a Public Forum and I will participate when I feel like and how I feel like it.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    The Debate:- 72 virgins, marriage to 9 yr old daughter of a friend, bachabazi, etc. Is the regular fodder with which <dyed in saffron bloggers here vent their anti Islam spleen. This kind of twaddle here passes for intelligent debate

    by writing these stupidities the forget THAT SHRI KRISHNA FAD 1603 WIVES EVEN THEN USED TO F.K HIS NEIGHBOURS WIFE CALLED RADHA.

    BLOG PE CHHOHON KEE CONFERENCE CHAL RAHI HAI,ATM MANTHAN HO RAHA HAI KI, **** BILLI KE GALE MEIN GHANTI KAUN AUR KAISE BANDHEIN.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Tajender

    As you know I love your paradigm changing, thought provoking and out of the box posts.

    Please continue to post.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ab to chimpanzee aur bandar kee dhamkee ki wajah se koi kutch bol bhee nahi sakta hai.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    ravi i am very angry with u.kaise kaise great baintein likhi kabhi dada nahin dee.intellectualism ke jungle mein yeh innocent jahil aur ill behved hiran(deer)lambi lambi kulachein mar rahe the sabko kaboo kiya.joote saaf karte hain naukari ke liye aur kahte hain
    ki muslim majority mein kaise rahoonga.chalea,

    kabhi kisi ko mukkamal jahan nahin milta
    kisi to zamin to kisi ko asman nahin milta
    aisa nahin ki tere jahan mein pyar na ho
    jahan iskee zaroorat wahan nahin milta.

    dad dete rahiye phir in thurkiyoh kee khabar mai leta rahoonga.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Tajendar Ji tusi great ho.

  • tajender

    BILLI IS PAKISTAN. CHOOHE. 4 DIN SE SAR JODH KE BAITHE HUE.parmatma se duaen ho raheen hai ke PARUSRAM tum phir au aur is bar khatriyoon kee jagah musalmanon ka sarv nash karo.he is the brhmn god who killed his mother as well.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    An interesting opinion from Omar Ali Pakistani

    A Pakistani Perspective
    The Narratives Come Home To Roost

    Most countries that exist above the banana-republic level of existence have an identifiable (even if always contested and malleable) national narrative that most (though not all) members of the ruling elite share and to which they contribute. Pakistan is clearly not a banana-republic; it is a populous country with a deep (if not very competent) administration, a very lively political scene, a very large army, the world’s fastest growing nuclear arsenal and a very significant, even if underdeveloped, economy. But when it comes to the national narrative, Pakistan is sui generis. The “deep state” has promoted a narrative of Muslim separatism, India-hatred and Islamic revival that has gradually grown into such a dangerous concoction that even Best Friends Forever (BFFs) China and Saudi Arabia are quietly suggesting that we take another look at things.

    The official “story of Pakistan” may not appear to be more superficial or contradictory than the propaganda narratives of many other nations, but a unique element is the fact that it is not a superficial distillation of a more nuanced and deeper narrative, it is only superficial; when you look behind the school textbook level, there is no there there. What you see is what you get. The two-nation theory and the creation of Pakistan in 712 AD by the Arab invader Mohammed Bin Qasim and its completion by the intrepid team of Allama Iqbal and Mohammed Ali Jinnah in the face of British and Hindu connivance is the story in middle school textbooks and it turns out that it is also the story in universities and think tanks (this is not to imply that no serious work is done in universities; of course it is, but the story of Pakistan does not seem to have a logical relationship with this serious work).

    This lack of depth and sophistication dooms this narrative to a cardboard existence and removes it from the ranks not only of the story of America or the history of that sceptred isle north of France, but also of the “5000 year old civilization of China” and “Eternal India”. Some intellectuals are aware of these shortcomings and half-hearted attempts to remedy the situation have been made, but I think it is fair to say that nothing has yet brought home the (halal) bacon; the story does not fit the post-enlightenment liberal notions of the world and does not even offer an alternative that claims to go beyond the ruling paradigm. Instead, the claim of an alternative system is being used to create just another nation state in a world of Westphalian nation-states. The working part of the state is entirely within the world norm, the supposed ideology has almost no connection to that norm, and problems were bound to arise at some point. This statement will sound strange to many people since in polite company it has been usual to ignore the contradictions between the two-nation theory and liberal notions of national identity; to the point that even liberal Pakistanis are not conscious of their own unusual and unique position. This wilful blindness is not without precedent in our world and can in fact be said to be just another “normal” facet of the world we live in, but there are contradictions and then there are contradictions. Ours have reached breaking point and will no longer hide quietly in the background. This is, of course, my opinion and may or may not make sense to everyone, but let it sit around in your mental living room for a few months; it may start to seem worth a look.

    I would add that a superficial and even contradictory national narrative is not necessarily the road to ruin. Life goes on, even in countries with less than convincing “national narratives”. Pakistan is a country, it exists —at a strategic location—it encompasses very productive land, it is blessed with many bounties of nature and a talented and resourceful population, and it has an ancient and resilient culture. It can succeed (and success is being defined here as nothing more than “normal” existence in the world of today, all problems of capitalism and nationalism fully included) in spite of its creation myth since human beings can apparently hold several contradictory ideas in their head at the same time (it is even “normal” to do so). So this is not a claim that it is bound to fail, just that it can succeed in spite of its myths, not because of them. If someone wishes to argue that myths and hot air are being overvalued in my piece today, they may be right. But it is my claim that realpolitik and narrative have intersected with great force in Pakistan today, and while the “deep state” faces many very “real” problems that will take years to solve, the narrative is itself a problem that is making all the other problems much harder to solve.

    Let us quickly review some history: In 1954, the ruling elite found its international partner (not without some effort) and Pakistan joined SEATO and CENTO. While Pakistan was happy to be part of the international anti-communist alliance, its elite saw India as the primary enemy. But when they launched an adventure in 1965 that ended in war with India in September, SEATO and CENTO were nowhere to be found. This started a narrative of American betrayal (a narrative that no American took too seriously) that was accentuated in 1971 when the Indian liberation of Bangladesh proceeded with little more than symbolic American intervention on the Pakistani side. The estranged lovers (estrangement being mostly one-way; the relationship was rather asymmetrical as Uncle Sam never seems to have paid too much high level attention to the hurt feelings of their “ally”) made up in 1980 in order to bleed the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    But there was now a new element in the relationship since Pakistan was led by more ambitious and intelligent people at this time, and managed the relationship with greater independence and “agency”. The simple-minded and childish notions of the 1950s and 1960s were left behind and the Pakistani high command was able to use American aid while building nuclear bombs and planning for a future projection of Jihadist forces into Kashmir and Afghanistan and beyond. Whether the American side understood what was going on and ignored it for devious reasons of their own, or whether their arrogance prevented them from seeing that their agents had a mind and plans of their own, the fact remains that the United States was no longer the sole creator of policies and projects in this era. After the US left the region with “mission accomplished” in Afghanistan, their ally did not allow this to interrupt their glorious work of arming and training Islamist armed groups. Rather they accelerated the process, eventually arming and training half a million young men to fight in the cause of Islam. By the mid-1990s, Pakistan had established a somewhat unruly client regime in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Afghanistan became “Jihad central”; the “go-to place” for any young Muslim dreaming of a new caliphate. This growing network was supported by the intelligence agencies of the state and a wider network of international funders and political supporters built around some favoured Madrasahs and the existing Islamist political parties like the Jamat e Islami.

    When some of these warriors took the fight to the West and triggered a much larger war (justified or not is another argument) Pakistan’s military establishment decided to dump its more unruly friends (the “bad jihadis”) but either through lack of capacity or lack of will, did not wish to go after the good jihadis (the ones who target India and Afghanistan). Unwilling or unable to find a narrative that justified their sudden change from pro-jihad to anti-jihad, GHQ opted for a short-cut. Bad Jihadis were described as agents of evil powers (mainly CIA, RAW and Mossad). Many of the Taliban killed in Pakistan were said to be uncircumcised Hindus. India was said to have 14 consulates in Afghanistan from where they and their American friends were running this vile operation. Military-affiliated websites like paknationalists.com and rupeenews.com provided a narrative that may seem fantastically improbable to outsiders but that fit in well with previous military psyops efforts and was smoothly accepted by many middle class Pakistanis. When losses in this new civil war accelerated, another element was added to the narrative. Now we were innocent victims of America’s “so-called war on terror”. This narrative could also draw upon liberals in the West who had their own suspicions about their ruling elite and served as a rich source of talking points for the military’s favourite propagandists.

    This narrative of “we are fighting America’s war” cleverly excluded any mention of our own role in bringing this menace to our shores. That America (and not just America) may have picked on Pakistan because Pakistan’s own armed forces had worked hard to make it the world headquarters of jihadist terrorism was not part of the story that was put together. Instead, it was all America’s fault. They brought the jihadis here, they dumped them on us and left. They were now using the jihadis as an excuse to attack us unfairly and with mala fide intent. The mala fide intent was usually presented as an American desire to “steal our nuclear arsenal”, but other theories like “imposing Indian hegemony” or protecting Israeli interests (the last being an activity that the US has long performed at great cost to itself, so it was not a claim without any foundation) were also cited.

    This story, while useful in the short term since it got the armed forces off the hook and preserved the possibility that the mullah-military alliance could be revived once the Americans left, is now turning out to be too clever by half. The crucial assumption in this scheme was that America would leave and let us return to status quo ante prior to our being overwhelmed by the confused civil war we are fighting in the interim. This fine balance also required that the Americans remain indifferent to the narrative and don’t take counter-measures in the media-management field. Finally, it assumed that the US could be alternately pressured and pleasured forever without seriously rupturing the relationship. Unfortunately, the plan did not factor in Seal Team Six and Obama’s willingness to risk a unilateral operation that simultaneously humiliated and pressured the military high command while putting them in a very uncomfortable position in front of their own people.

    Only time will tell if the net effect of this operation will be positive or negative. In the early weeks, the only thing that is clear is that GHQ had not anticipated any such operation and may not even have known about Osama’s presence half a mile from their military academy. The Pakistani leadership (which in this case means not just the military leadership but also the political leadership, who have been handed an unexpected opportunity to play a role beyond being the military’s human shield) initially reacted by trying to find some backup from China and Saudi Arabia and even Russia. But early indications are that neither China nor Saudi Arabia is willing or able to bail them out if they continue with their past policies. The word is that the Chinese have told the Pakistani leadership that they are our bestest, fastest, deepest friends and the entire politburo prays for our health every day, but as far as budget support is concerned, it may be a good idea to apply to the IMF and Uncle Sam. The half-hearted effort to wave a Russian offer in America’s face is even more of a joke as both the Russians and the Pakistanis are just blowing hot air in an attempt to get Uncle Sam’s attention and neither is likely to get very far. Meanwhile, the jihadis are not rolling over and playing dead either, which complicates matters further.

    In short, in the real world, the second coming is not about to happen and the black flags from Khorasan are not going to drive the infidels into the sea. Pakistan will have to live within its current boundaries and will have to make a serious effort to go after any transnational terrorists based in our territory. Even the India-specific terrorists will have to be told the game is over. For the deep state, this is not an easy news bulletin to deliver to its own people because they have been telling a very different story for a very long time. Most people in Pakistan do not even know that Pakistan was world headquarters for international Jihad for so long and that our own intelligence agencies set up most of the militant organizations and trained most of the terrorists we are now fighting. Most Pakistanis probably believe that 9/11 was an “inside job” and Mumbai 26/11was staged by some rightwing Hindu colonel. This amazing level of denial and disinformation has been carefully cultivated by the deep state, but is now coming home to roost. With the US plucking Osama a stone’s throw from PMA Kakul and with the jihadis attacking our most cherished institutions (GHQ, Cricket — the attack on the Sri-Lankan cricket team — and now Mehran airbase) the narrative is coming home to roost with a vengeance.

    What will happen next? As an eternal optimist, I think things will slowly get better after several years of civil war in which the state will be pitted against the very people it created and lionized not too long ago. While the initial phases of this civil war were fought while telling our own people that our enemies are Hindus and Jews and their uncircumcised agents in the tribal areas, this clever scheme will have to be abandoned because it is impossible to fight one set of jihadis while working with another set as friends and allies. They all see each other as friends and they can see (even if some people in GHQ cannot) that this war can only mean that the state is abandoning its jihadi dreams in exchange for membership of the capitalist globalised world led by Chimerica. To them, this means war and it means war to the finish. This would be a very hard war to fight even if we know what is going on; it an impossible war to fight when our own people don’t know who is fighting whom. Which is why the narrative will have to be altered and a start has already been made by the generally pro-army anchor, Kamran Khan. It will not be an easy job and there will be much resistance from within GHQ’s own propagandists, some of whom have such serious psychological issues with India that this realignment threatens to fry their fragile eggshell mind. But there is no choice. Slowly but surely, the times they are a changin’….

    ——————————————————————————–

    Omar Ali is a Pakistani-American physician who also moderates the “Asiapeace” discussion group on the internet.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271931

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Omar Ali, the first part of your article describing pakistan is pure fantasy, particularly your comment abour lively political scene. Its an irony to talk about politics in country which has been ruled by army 90% of its existence.All civil governments were replaced not through elections but coupde ta.
    Summary execution of its political leaders by army doesn’t say a great deal about liberaldemocracy,sayd a lot about the ISLAMIC DNA.
    The second part describing the history to date is honest and succint.
    the third part prognosticating the future is too far fetched.
    Bottom line is pakistan is a VERY VERY BACKWARD COUNTRY IN IDEAS.
    it is stuck in hizra 100, with feudalism of the worst kind , no debate , no freedom , religion as a creed and political instrument .This is a society of the period hizra 100 not CE 2010.

    [Reply]

    Indus Darya Reply:

    Some points to note:
    1. Allama Iqbal never mentioned anything that could be even remotely construed as approval of Pakistan. Although he has been dressed up as the ideologue for Pakistan by its military led establishment.
    2. Its corrupt army has consumed the country and will not give up its power and privileges short of a civil war which leads to fissures within it.
    3 Pakistan is drowning in debt and utterly dependent on the US through Saudi Arabia whose primitive ideology and world view has been imported into Pakistan through the madrassas and has permeated a great majority of people at all levels of society.
    4. It is incapable of making the sea change needed to its narrative for to do so would demolish the raison d’etre for its creation. It was created on a false premise. So more and more islam is rammed down the throat.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Indus Darya

    You are absolutely correct.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Ravi,
    Against my better judgement I shall say a few words about your isolation and ridicule on this and Zia’s blog that seems to have so obviously hurt you. If you disagre with it, do not come back with abuse- that is not the way of gentlemen.

    In telling a joke, context is everything. You had been viciously attacked by many here because-
    - you resort to personal abuse and abuse of Indian Gods
    - you are perceived (not by me) to be a Pakistani who seems to react very violently to any muslim or Pak criticism and then lashes out at hindu-sikhs and Indians

    After kind of being hounded out, you were inching your way back in. At this crucial juncture, to make an anti Indian joke was very bad timing. Hence the avalanche of jokes at your expense and anti Pak jokes. It is your life, do as you please- I can only give advice

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    The joke was not Anti Indian.

    Further more, please remind me, how many times I have personally told you – and provided evidence – that my abuse was RETALIATORY. You know who I am talking about.

    Regards

    Ravi

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    cotd-
    This blog is not muslim or anti Pakistani. Usman Chowdhury from Pakistan is welcome here, and Shoeb, L Mirza and syed bhai are appreciated. In fact, I look upto Shoeb’s writing style and no-nonsnse world view.
    It is not even that the hindus- sikhs are very united. Lot of people have ahd a go at Shan, and when I initiated a bold debate on ‘reverse partition’, Mr Shenoy, whose writings I normally like, rubbished my initiative. I was saved because many loved it and it led to animated debates. Howeevr, Mr Shenoy and I will continue to be civil to each other.
    When Rizwan was upset by Rajeev’s anti-muslim posts he simply said- Rajeev, you are too anti muslim, and on one occasion brilliantly asked Rajeev ‘how old are you’

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    contd- for Ravi-

    Man is the architect of his or her misfortune, most of the time. Yes, if one is needlessly attacked on the street, then that is different. You need to show some insight as to how you became so unpopular and take some remedial steps to correct it.
    If this blog causes you so much distress, then you can even ask yourself- is it worth it? That is a decision only you can make. I find this blog and facebook and my internet passion too addictive and try to control all three.
    Right now I am sailing along the Greek Islands, and log on when we anchor. Maybe I should be revising for my navigation tests, ha

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    You are absolutely right it is my decision.

    However, I note that you ignored my question.

    Perhaps next time you anchor.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    THE MOST IMP THING, RAVI

    India is under attack for the last 20 years by a very dangerous combination of local Islamists and jehadi Pakistan, from Kashmir to Akshardham to Kasb to Diwali bombings etc. In these circumstances, people are hypersensitive to any abuse on their culture, or even a joke coming from who they perceive to be a Pakistani or an India hating muslim.
    Like I said before, context is everything.
    I dont have all the answers, I have commented on things as I see them.
    I had better go now. We sail for Zakynthos tomorrow at 7. Good night all

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I appreciate your comments and advice.

    I am very conscious of the low-level war which Pakistan has waged against us. However, that does not give any one the licence to wily nilly insult other people’s religion.

    I have apologised for using inappropriate language when talking about Sri Ram Chandar Ji. However, I see no apology from any of our dyed in saffron bloggers for their use of grossly offensive language towards Islam, etc.

    So I am afraid you can not dump all of my predicament at my own door. There are others who find it convenient to push their agenda without any opposition from me.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Ravi,
    If I may jump in, if some one insults your religion, just ignore or
    If there is something said with which you disagree with, just state what you think is right and move on. Do not get into the game of counter insult of religion.

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    Do jump in.

    By the way, I am a Sikh. HONESTLY

    Though not a very good one.

    shan Reply:

    @Pantditji, your lines “lots of people had a go at shan”
    What you failed to mention SHAN GIVE THEM ALL BACK WITH FULL INTEREST
    and had a go at me (that is panditji) which made me choke while sipping my wine.
    also you should have added , i am not going to make banal and stupid and sterile remarks ,
    for shan cannot stand **** and may come back with a salvo , which is not good for sea sickness.
    I may throw up ,and then throw myself into the agean.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    This Mishra is Chutiya-Class submarine..always passing judgement.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @To all serious bloggers on this post
    Pl note the comment above and respond to the person who has posted it. Is this not shameful and outright crass?

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinod Ji

    As I am sure you once said, some people are born to belch. Once a belcher, always a belcher.

    This kind of language has disappeared even from street corners of Pahar Ganj, it therefore surprise me to see it here in print.

    Many people have tried to reason with Rajeev but to no gain.

    Sad part is that he is very capable of putting forward a well reasoned and a cogent argument.

    But I guess his need to abuse is greater than his need to reason.

    I appreciate your light touch in guiding us bloggers.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vinod SHarma,
    Stop hiding behind skirts of Balwinder and Ravi. Be a man..

    Rajiv Reply:

    Any person, who seeks to draw any similarity between the political history of India and its constitution since 1947 , with the political history of Pakistan ( which allegedly was founded in 712 AD by the Arab invader Mohammed Bin Qasim and was completed by the intrepid team of Allama Iqbal and Mohammed Ali Jinnah in the face of British and Hindu deceit ) , opens himself up to infinite ridicule .

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    If that was meant for me. Please explain as to when I did what I am being accused of.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Ravi,
    No it was not meant at you, but thats the general template I follow for those from Pakistan who come to this site with the philosophy of yes Pakistan is bad and India is almost equally bad.

    Its also meant for Indians who say, Pakistan is bad and so are we.
    Its a silly, obstructionist, unproductive thinking to say so.

    You see, all men are sinners, but ISI master-mind major Iqbal who funded and planned 26/11 attack on Mumbai is not same as Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, by claiming all men are sinners.

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    I do think it was aimed at me. Therefore, I will response.

    I do not condone and never have supported any violence perpetrated by the Pakistan sate or free lancers. I approve of India taking ALL measures to, not only stop but, also avenge the hurt caused.

    However, there are here dyed in saffron people who criticise Islamic religion based on isolated facts and other unsavoury cultural practices, which probably pre-date Islam. So my balancing equivalences are social and cultural and do not include war, and other violent acts. Pakistan is our enemy, there are no two views about that.

    Rajiv, this is not for the first time that we have had an exchange of this type. I am now of an age, where my memory is not as grand as it used to be, but am I wrong is stating that the two of us have been here before.

    tajender Reply:

    rajiv why not u respect my history i respect ur history.problem with u people is ,u fabricate the lies to win the point.
    u all are bunch of liars.like u were lying about jinnah to win the point.

    why since nda has gone there is no attack on parliament or any other religious place.awnser, advani was orchestracting all these attacks to create the atmosphere condusive to their electoral politics.

    brhmnst and banias cannot give anything to nation.fraud is only way for them to reach the corridors of power.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    @ Everyone
    My apologies to every one, I am an old timer and was deceived by words. Any one who can praise Tajinder, can not be an Indian and friend of India.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    pankaj bhai i apolige u if i hurted u.u look to be very polite and soft person.but dont down grade the defnition of good indian.i only tell the people that this is not good for india or even for brhmns.
    because of alqaida and talibans pakistan is destroyed.we should not give chance hindu talibans to destroy or hurt india.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    I wholehearedly endorse the above comments by Pankaj.Then again by his own admission ,being medical professionals here , he is having dementia, in other words , he is going SENILE, thus appreciating tejender the loony.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan,
    what I said, which supports Tajender??Can you read? I am saying, whosoever supports Tajinder is not an Indian or friend of India. This was for Ravi, who is supporting Tajinder. I know, english pubs are very good, but after coming back from them and start writing on computer, please double check.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    These both Ravi-Tajender are changu-mangu who deserve each other. Let them enjoy each other.

    shan Reply:

    @pankaj, perhaps the syntax was not correct. If you read correctly Ravi had said “his memory seem to be not what it used to be “, and my posting was in response to that.Also I do nothave a visceral hatred towards ISLAM like Rajeev , that is borne out of profound ignorance. I feel visceral hatred towards PAKISTANI MILITARY JUNTA, and all the islamic theocracies, and I have profound compassion towards the QUOM particularly the mohajirs WHO WERE FORCED OUT OF THE HINDU FOLD.
    I am mesmerised by ISLAMIC ARCHITECTURE and ISLAMIC HISTORY in general.
    A little proof of my depth of involvement intellectually.
    Are you aware this 72 virgins business is a canard planted by the christians to malign muslims.
    There is no where mention of 72 virgins in quoran.what it says is that you will go to Zannat if you get killed in Jihad.
    Now some bearded geezer ,?nuri(?AD600) or somebody had given a description of heaven.
    According to this a s s hole there are 72 houris is heaven ready for service.
    But before getting to excited , one should keep in mind hindu iconography is not to dissimilar.
    RAMBHA and all ASPARAS , dance in heaven , i dont think there is any suggestion “they are averse to a little on the side”

    Ravi Reply:

    Pankaj#1

    So yet another method of determining if some one is an Indian or not has been introduced by you. This time, those who support Tajender are not Indian and those who attack him are:

    I would politely like you to reconsider what you have said. You are a man of letters, a highly regarded professional body has bestowed a title upon you, and it is your duty to maintain the dignity of that title.

    I am very much aware of excesses of Tajender, and on an occasion or two even mentioned it to him.

    However, once you have immunised your self from his style, frequency and ferocity then you are able to see content that Indian Establishment rather we did not see or consider.

    We need to focus on this content.

    I have no hesitation in supporting Tajender even if the cost to me is your enmity.

  • jai vaidya

    Tejender, what is your history? Well, come on, construct yourself.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Their history is-
    1. There was never a country called India.
    2. Pakistanis invaded India (???) in 712 AD under leadership of Bin Qasim to liberate people from Brahmin rule.
    3. Pakistan grew in size and reached its maximum size under Aurangzeb.
    4. Then butparast hindus sided with kafir brits and started dividing pakistan.
    5. The size of pakistan kept decreasing and finally India was created out of pakistan in 1947.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    Thats pretty close to what I see of history taught in Pakistan. They refer to the period before 712 ad as the ‘dark ages’.

    [Reply]

    Indus Darya Reply:

    I agree with you.
    Those who deny and distort history will be doomed and damned by history and pakistan is a good example of that.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Ravi,

    “Reading History from right to left is better than reading fiction and calling it History.”

    If you are an Indian (which I very much doubt), you should also know that JNU history, which is the only govt. approved history in India, can be read from left to right or right to left, because all of it is only fiction.

    And for your information, most people read it from right to left and believe every word of what they read.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Has this ‘beginning’ fo Pakistan any relation to the figure 72?

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    Gullible people will believe anything any one tells them.

    History, is interpreting and re-interpreting historical artefacts in available light. However, it is still only a story with a degree of plausibility attached to it.

    If Marxist History annoys you then History written by Right Wing Hindus annoys me.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    which is why they read their history from right to left.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    which is also why their dimaag goes round and round.

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    Reading History from right to left is better than reading fiction and calling it History.

  • http://- Rajeev

    This british crowd Balwinder-Mishra and Shan are expert in ruining every debate. These old farts are out of touch with reality and are still living in 70s.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    Please keep the debate civil. Lets not get personal. Also too many mention of 72 virgins , dilutes any serious discussion. I am sure you will take this in good spirit.
    I am open to be corrected whenever I myself cross the line.
    Ravi is 1000 times better than pakinder ( who should be ignored ) and lets not club them.
    I think Ravi has been civil in his last few posts that I have seen.
    We all have some differences of opinion and except tejinder/pakinder, all are Indians.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    except tejinder/pakinder, all are Indians.

    i dont need nationality certifate from u.i am writing something good on bjp and rss(rumour spreading socity) wait with patience.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajeev , if I am an old **** , then you are a grand old ****.I know your stint in a muslim majority college had completely ruined your capacity to look at anything islamic in an objective and detached way .in my case my vocation and my growing up in a culture is such , that there is so much pride and confidence , that islam is not a threat but a matter of pity.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Dear Vinodji

    Since it has been brought up by Rajiv, I too agree that RAJEEV does not keep any debate civil- just look at him using obscene language above.

    He has in previous posts used language like f”cked up Islam, referred to muslims as kattuay, said stuff like materbating on Quran, and many other disgusting stuff.

    I did ask him once, what is your age. Even this withering putdown did not affect him.
    PLEASE BAN, OR AT LEAST CENSURE RAJEEV. If you want I can copy and paste his vile utterances against Islam and muslims.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    So Rizzy boy , you seem to have your knickers twisted.Your farishta panditji is in greece, a place world capital of porn films.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizzie boy,censorship /fatwas is for the islamic theocracies . the only thing we have in India to be proud of is DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM. Though there are some spineless cowards like gautam chikermane who will censor you.,then if you look at his photo ,he is an epitome of someone ,petty ,mean ,anaemic , full of cowardice.
    Also remember COWRADS DIE MANYTIMES BEFORE DEATH.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    be proud of is DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM

    had india been democratic ,modi would have been in jail.so dont boost.democracy is a weapon in the hands of capitalists to rule.could cameron will remain in power if his deputy is caught in running money extracting bussines using state police.

    hence dont boost pakistan is too elected goverment but same.

    in a democratic goveremnt satya sai baba would have died in jail after murdering his 6 bed fellows.

    it is brhmncl dictactorship.everything happens as they want.

  • shan

    @Ravi(you have said your memory is failing, if your gurda is not failing , respond)
    You drew equivalence between gandhi’s marriage and prophet’s marriage.
    No wonder we think you are internet ISI.
    Gandhi’sbride was choosen by parents, when he was eight. he married when he was 13 ,
    BUT HIS WIFE WAS 14 YRS OLD.
    Now lets talk about the prophet. He married Aisha when HE WAS 51 YRS AND AIYSHA 9YRS
    Not only that , that poor girl was already engaged to another guy , aiysha’s father was not all agreeable as this was against prevailing arab custom(apparently Abu Bakr is also prophet’s foster brother).But there was always the revelation which came handy.
    Is this same as gandhi’s marriage.
    Apparently there is description of the first night by aiysha(source the book JEWEL OF MEDINA)
    where the prophet had pounced on her and she was bruised and battered and in considerable pain.
    However over the years she found him loving and considerate.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    shan difference in message,ghandi was selling apartheism under the grab of hinduism.while prophet mohammed(peace be upon him)was slling egalitarianism.listen the lecture by shankaracharya on u tube

    Shankaracharya speaks about Islam

    ram krishna vedanti told same.

    sanatan dhaarm is dharam while hinduism is a zoinist conspiracy.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Shenoy

    “ISI DA KACHCHE VICH VAG GIYA’” actually means ISI is actually leaking in its undies. :D

    Vag= leak

    However it could also have a deeper meaning which art and literary critics can ponder over. Giving you a live example, I heard the expression recently when on a flight to Tokyo we had a stopover at Bangkok. One of my co-passengers– a Sikh boy from Delhi’s Punjabi basti of Rajouri Garden — told me that, ” main toh Bangkok ka naam sun kar hi kachche mein vag jaata hoon….”

    So in the context of the ISI which is now on the run for being exposed all over the world as a terror outfit which has now clumsy spokemen like our dear old **** – TUR D inder– one can pick up both the meanings. :D :D

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @vijay, just out of interest , is this sikh boy doing Kabotar Baji , trying to sneak into japan

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @vijay kumar
    Is ths your idea of a debate? Or even humour?

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma,

    I may have gone off track once a while but I think my comment is only as good or as bad as yours when you said that “Vijay would have grabbed a Cheerleaders bust…” or something of that sort.

    As far as debate goes there is very little happening. There are more postings certainly… but it is only one person commenting on another. And the fake Taj-endar filling in with about 30% of the total physical space, spewing poor quality ISI propoganda…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    I am sure Vinodji didn’t mean grabbing the bustline of a cheerleader, like Geelani did with you know who.

    Comig to the blog, I read an interesting story in the Times Of India about he Nazis training dogs to speak and use them to defeat the allies. I think the ISI has not only taken a leaf out of the Nazi book and trained some of its dogs but has gone a step further by teaching these dogs to write also. Some of these dogs have been let loose on this blog with some fancy Hindu and Sikh names.

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    What the article in TOI avoided to mention is that the Italian Fascist’s had a parallel programme which was training Monkeys to talk and write.

    It seems that the Italian Fascist programme was significantly more successful in training these monkeys than was the Nazi programme of training dogs.

    We all know that a certain Golimarkar was very keen in transferring this technology from the Italian Fascists to India.

    Fourth generation of these highly trained Monkeys can be found spewing Hindu Fundo garbage here, there and every-where.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Well I think that the ISI is definately short of money and brains, in case they have chosen someone like Tu-rd endar to propogate hate ! :D

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Ravi O Ravi

    Instead of trying to make fun of HIndu Gods and HIndus, why don’t you learn politeness and secularism from Hindus ?? I think you have a mean streak which makes you eat from this land and then villify it !!

    Or maybe u too have been brainwashed by the ISI to hate Hindus and India. But remember ISI da Kachche vich vag gaya hai… and the new masters of the stray dog called Pak-shit-stan are the CHinese who are very very mean.

    For every Yuan they throw at their pets, you will have to lick their feet ten times… a day :D

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kumar

    Where have I been imploite to either your or any Hindu God.

    I believe I have been extremely polite.

    I am being mean because there are others who are also being mean for no reason or in respond to any provocation.

    I do not hate Hindus or India, sorry I can not say the same about you, who despite refined faculties has replaced his reason with uneccessary emotional humbug and offensive language.

    BTW my family were also refugees from Sialkot

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Ravi,

    by some ***** mix up with the genes and the experiments going wrong, because of the war, a daughter of one of Mussolini’s foot soldier has come and ocupied the post of the presidente of the ruling party of India. Check it out. And this product of the gone-haywire experiment has learnt only a few stock words, “Modi, Modi, Rape, Rape, Mat Ka Saudagarrrrrrr………”

    Ravi Reply:

    B.V. Shenoy

    You may well be right.

    However, when in the streets of Delhi, I was among urchins who opposed Madan Lal Khurana of Jan Sangh, we heard Rape, Rape, and Maut Ka Saydagar, words even then.

    So I hope you don’t mind if disagree with your analysis that introduction of Italian genes has brought with it a restricted and narrowly focused political lexican.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    You conveniently misquote people when it suits you. You you’d be found out on this one. Pl refer to my exact comment and reproduce it honestly. It was perfectly parliamentary and not cheap as your comment certainly is.

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shenoy saab, hand on heart- is Modi 100% innocent- do we know- is not the best way to let the courts decide- should not India set high standards for justice
    should not ALL suspects from Raja, to kanimozhi, to Kalmadi to kasab, to SIMI, to Modi be thoroughly investigated and ounished if found guilty ??
    just a thought sir, looking for your reply

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    @ DOC PANKAJ- we love your posts , pl keep on writing, pl do not get into tussle with SHRILL SHAN

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    In that case, Balwinderji, why prejudge him and declare that he is maut ka saudagar? And how can Sonia Gandhi, of all people, call Narendra Modi maut ka saudagar, when her own husband is also accused of ordering the pogrom against Sikhs in 1984, when his foot soldiers killed more than 4000 Sikh men, women and children?

    Once a herd of buffalows was walking. The buffalow which was coming behind called the one in the front, “he you nangi bhains”. The one in the front replied, ” I admire your clothes”

    This is the story of anti-Sikh pogrom of 84 and Hindu-Muslim riots of 2002. And this is not some JNU professor’s history, for your kind information, Balwinderji.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    ‘hand on heart’, Rajiv Gandhi is definitely, 100% guilty of ordering the ‘84 pogrom against Sikhs.

    tajender Reply:

    shenoy bhai,

    Well I think that the ISI is definately short of money and brains, in case they have chosen someone like Tu-rd endar to propogate hate

    i am fighting hate not spreading hate.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    vinod bhai it is none.

    bak raha hoon mein kya kya main

    kutch na samjhe khuda kare koi.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Tajendar

    If my memeory serves me right the sher goes like.

    bak raha hoon janoon mein kya kya kuch
    kuch na samjhay khuda kare koi

    tajender Reply:

    u are right.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Shan

    NO brother. He was a software guy… going there to fix the software for the TOkyo Metro…

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Rizwan, bans dont work peaple will simply shift to another forum argue yor points and stop complaining. I find many things sai d in this blog offensive , but am I complaining?We are all big b0ys if you get hit take it with a smile.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    @ doc Mishraji, my respect for you increases day by day. The dignified way in which you have counselled ‘troubled ‘ RAVI above, should be mandatory reading for all.

    Loved your lines to ravi- “”"You need to show some insight as to how you became so unpopular and take some remedial steps to correct it.
    If this blog causes you so much distress, then you can even ask yourself- is it worth it? That is a decision only you can make.”"”

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dear Vinodji

    i notice your disgust with RAJEEV above. The vulgarity of the filth he has aimed at muslims and Islam before can only be matched by the sheer dignity and patience of Shoeb, Syedbhai, Mirza and riswan- they are thorogh gentlemen.

    But Vinodji, allowing these Islamic abusers to continue on this blog sends a wrong signal to muslims and Pakistanis. I surf a lot of Pak newspapers and the common theme their is- look at the way we are abused in TOI and HT.

    In a real world, RAJEEV would be arrested for racism in UK, and I am sure even in our noble country, if his identity was known he could be prosecuted under Indian law for incitement to hate. His previous comments can be posted here.
    So, please Vinodji, on behalf of the 4 very patriotic Indian muslims mentioned above, and for the millions who read this blog ( all my relatives and friends read it) you need to BAN RAJEEV and declare hios email public- so that all decent individuals can flood his inbox with their appreciation of his vulgar speech.
    A very disgusted Balwinder

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    riswan puttar, your one liner- “”"Rajeev, how old are you”"” was brilliant. Demolished RAJEEV’S credibilty 100%. That is fact puttar, dont worry, we are all with you. Now waiting to see if Vinodji has guts

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Balwinderji,

    “In a real world, RAJEEV would be arrested for racism in UK”

    in the same real world, would Tajender be made a minister for racial equality and minority affairs in the UK?

    In the light of what this Tur-d has been vomitting here on Vinodji’s blogs, your disgust at Rajeev sounds one sided and pseudo secular.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Some double standards are quite apparent here. The indulgence towards some who spew venom on India , Hindus and Hinduism are winked at but Rajeev who only responds in a like manner , is frowned upon.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Praveen,
    Inke baap ka blog hai…Ravi jaise terrorist ko apna damaad bana rakha hai,.Every debate is turned into a joke…

    tajender Reply:

    i attack bjp and brhmnst (not brhmns).i consider them very dangerous for our country and this tirade will till i die.i have seen the boys of 7-8 years in ahmadabad ZINKE PEECHE SE MOLTON RODS TUM LOGON NE DAAL KE AAR PAAR KIYA.aur jeet ki khuhi banayee.many died few afre still with human right people go and see.u too wre the partner in 26/11 in bombay..in taaj 2 terrorist can not fight with nsg and rape and kill women and children.scape was provided by ib while pakis were ditched.

    i dont attack or abuse ur gods while rajeev abuses prophet mohammed in filthiest possible language.without knowing that our prophet is mentioned in ur vedas at many places especially in BHAVISHYA VEDAS.my fight is with brhmnsm not hidu gods or religion.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Sandhu,by yor standards Cameron ,Sarkozyand Morkel should be arrested.You have reminded us for the millianth time that you are from the UK,we dont give a rats asss.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Jai Vidya Ji

    Surely you meant rat’s arse

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    “The most dangerous ideas in society are not the ones being argued,but the ones that are assumed”
    C.S Lewis

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Yes Surely.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Dear friends- shenoy, jai vaidya and Praveen
    If you go back over the last 1 year I have hammered anyone who has insulted hindus and our Gods- see my treatment of Rvi over last 1 month.
    tajender has been dealt with similarly. I have said a zillion times ban him Vinod ji, to others I say ignore him.
    ————-
    Now please tell me if you disagree with my feelings about RAJEEV’S anti Islamic filth- he has said stuff like ‘masterbating on quran.
    Please gentlemen, let us show how high Indian standards are

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    otherwise what message we send to Shoeb, Mirza, Rizwan and Syed bhai

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Balwinder,
    I agree 100% with you. We should not insult any religion here. All of us are Hindus , Muslims and Sikhs etc because we were born into it. Its our actions that decide the kind of person we are, not our religion. Sure there are differences in religious philosophies and those can be debated or discused but vulgar insults have no place in it.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    Beautifully put.

    tajender Reply:

    tajender has been dealt with similarly. I have said a zillion times ban him Vinod ji, to others I say ignore him

    balwinder jee i never attacked ur religion.if u are hindu.if u are sikh i always praise guru nanak jee.hence u are attack on me was wrong.if u want to ignore me.this is ur choice but asking others is wrong.anyhow people ignored ur call and u lost my respect.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    nihng u are not incharge of blog.u are like me.vinodjee dont need ur advise.he himself is wise man.knows well what to do what not.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Why don’t you shut up and start reading? You just pass comments and nothing. You and Mishra with your sidekick Rizwan have destroyed every blog.
    You speak on both side provided each side massage your ego.
    Sardarji, Don’t preach for god sake..You are not funny at all…Tumhare chamche hanstey honge tunhare jokes par…but all your jokes are stale and outdated.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Balwinder Its not about how isulted I or you feel I think banning is a bad precedent.Ido not wish to see a ban on Tejendar or Ravi either.Bans on books have hurt our country the only way to deal with books you do not agree with is,to write another book.
    Shoeb Rizwan Syed can aarticulate theselves very clearly as they have done on previous occasions.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Jai Vaidya

    I could not have agreed with you more.

    However, the point here is not just about being critical or providing an alternative view point.

    The issue is about personal abuse of the “street corner” variety.

    Whilst another book can be written to counter the points being made by the original, there is no avenue available to counter personal abuse.

    I have mentioned elsewhere, Rajeev is very capable of expressing his view points, dare I say there are some he has made and I have found myself agreeing with him.

    The issue is all about name calling and personal abuse and to use his own words – “needling internet Jihadi’s” of which he thinks I am one, and a very dangerous one at that.

    His need to abuse is greater than his need to discuss.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    Ban : mostly no ( however if a perons aim is to be only disruptive and abusive , then banning him is like expelling some one from a clasroom. Even in parliament, members are censured and even physicaly expelled for disruptive behaviour )

    Censure : yes

    That should apply to all of us. Its no coincidense the quality of the discussion here is inversely proportional to pakinders postings here.

    Okay , I think we should go back to the Chicago trial.

    From the testimony of Daood Gilani and the evidense ( phone intercepts, e-mail ) presented it clear that major Iqbal of Pak army/isi was the chief planner. Its he who gave Daood 25,000$ for his trips to India and its to whom Daood reported and its he who arranged for Daood/Headleys training.

    Pakistan position is, Iqbal who ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    The laws of clandestine low level war include “deniability”.

    What ISI is up to has been an open secret for a few years now.

    What we are witnessing in Chicago is the implementation of “Deniability”.

    tajender Reply:

    in 26/11 sacred brhmns of IB were also involve.Nagesh Choudhari said Karkare was India’s first Brahmin who openly and courageously fought both the Hindu terrorist (RSS-AB) and the IB and died for a great cause. Dr. Ambedkar, Shahu Maharaj, Phule, Periyar etc. also died for the same cause. Brahminists killed Karkare because he was the enemy of Brahminism. Though Karkare was a Brahmin, Brahminists hated such people. Brahminism was against Dalits and OBCs. But the problem is Dalit/OBCs do not know this.

    The Hindu terrorists attack only Muslims by using OBCs as their fighting force. Bahujans must understand this Hindu terrorist strategies. Brahminism is nothing but terrorism. The Indian media is actively supporting the Hindu terrorists. Muslims are not terrorists but are the main target of Brahminism. These Puraniks, Pradnya Thakurs, Pandeys are the kingpin of terror. we are all brothers but Hindu terrorists keep us divided, he said

  • http://- Rajeev

    I had to use “Old farts” word for some people here because they always hijack the debate and make it punjabi vs bengali. These people are still living in 70s.
    As far as muslims are concerned, I have no problem with them as long as they reciprocate tolerance shown towards them. You guys are just being hypocrites for not realising the truth. There is absolute need for a two-way street on secularism.
    You guys actually deserve forked tongue people like Ravi who fools you everyday with some sprinkle of secularism over absolute hate for India and hindus.

    Shan,
    I do like you thought process and there is a gang here whose only work here is to target you. You always get pulled into their debates and stoop to their level. This is the reason, I used that word which I regret in your case. As far as my interaction with muslims is concerned, I have decided to reciprocate love with love and hate with hate…I can not be phony like many here.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    I have decided to reciprocate love with love and hate with hate…I can not be phony like many here.

    good idea but dont use abusive language when angry.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shut up….

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    thanks.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    What is your take on the effect of Headley on the US?

    Is the US media giving this ISI terrorist enough coverage so as to influe nce the people to dump Pakistan forever?

    Or is US still going to wink at Pakistani terror directed againsy India?

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Vijay for trying to bring blog back to sense. It has been truly hijacked.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Vijay
    The trial is getting coverage in NY Yimjes, International Herald tribune , but not as much as I would like to see. I mean the testimnony yesterday, was gripping. There were some sites which were live blogging the testimony from uinside the court-room. Outlook India also carried it.

    What USA needs to do is now demand extradition of Major Iqbal from Pakistan.

    Ofcourse Pakistan won’t do it because major Iqbal reported to Kayani/pasha and terrorism against India is the policy of the criminal entitry of Pakistan.

    USA is going to continue its dual policy towards Pakistan as long as its not out of Afganistan. So yes, it will continue to wink at terror directed not just against India, but US too.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    The problem is that nobody know the real identity of Major Iqbal. His real name and rank is unknown.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Only this fake Indian and Ravi know who is Iqbal, the real major of real ISI.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajiv;
    I agree with your reading. US knew since long about the duplicitious way Pakistan is working but ignored it in the desire to carry its national goal. But now, since this pakistani behaviour has started hurting it seriously, it is showing some helpful attitude towards India. In the last, India has to help it self, no body will bring out its chest nuts from fire. India has to be singed, as a by product of this neglect since long, in this matter.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    ” it is showing some helpful attitude towards India”

    This is just to pressure Pakistan to give in. They know the best way to extract co-operation from pakistan is to get friendly with India.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    I also agree with this reading.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Rizwan,
    I basically lampooned your question “how old are you?” because looking at your participation, I knew you are just out of college and having fun on your father’s wealth.
    You are well intentioned but have no clue what people are talking about. Balwinder is a c-class submarine who has turned you into his sidekick.
    For god sake, don’t be a nipple sucking kid, read and contribute rather than saying to Balwinder “Haanji…Haanji”.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    Rajeev

    Totally uncalled for.. Dont be like Shan etc

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Raju,
    I agree but don’t you think there are bunch of non-serious posters who keep killing every debate.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Ravi;
    when you eluded to my enimity, I was a bit perplexed. Enemity is a very strong word as friendship. You should not utter it lightly. Now you appear more articulate and even if you are not what you claim, I am ready to engage with you on your stand on the way India is evolving. As you are supporting, Taj (nothing personal against him either, but his thinking and one track mind) and by extrapolation, it seems that you agree with him, raise your points and I would like to reply to them as best as I can. The only requirement is civil language.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    You have no clue about what you are dealing with. You will learn. Good luck.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    I am an enterprising person, I will take my chance.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    To start an enterprise, I has to do some ground work so why don’t you start by reading Ravi’s love filled posts from previous debates. It will help your enterprise to grow leaps and bound.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Typo
    “I has”

    read as “one has”

  • http://- Rajeev

    Vinod sharma is using inner fighting between bloggers to save his own skin. He has been exposed in AMar singh CD scam and now to hide his embarrassment he is trying to put down Shenoy and Vijay using non-performing idiots like Balwinder and Mishra.

    It will be better if we stop judging each other’s comments and stick to the issue.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Have you seen me abuse anyone or anyone’s religion? I am all for tolerance. In fact many a time on this blog I have said that let us use the anonymity which the internet gives to honestly debate the reasons for suspician between religions.

    Face to face one can be polite for the reason of being polite, But being anonymous can also make us frank. So even when dirt comes out a consensus can be made.

    BUT….

    As far as Pakistan goes I have full rights to express my disgust and frustrations. They come her to bomb us and spread hatred amongst us. SO why should i ignore that??

    So today when their army and the evil ISI is at a low point why should I not enjoy the sight that “ISI da Kachche vich vag raya hai?” :D

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharma is trying to sideline all those who are opposed to his amar singh style of journalism with the help of clueless fools..Ignore fools and keep exposing this sharma.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajjev,
    You are making this too complicated. Just be civil to all Indians and any good pakistanis if here.
    For others, like pakinder, just ignore. There is no way you can have a discussion with someone who suffers from brahminitis in the morning and zionitis in the evening. The entire state of pakistan looks like has been reduced to a mental institution and one of its loonies is here.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I am against any gang up. You can see that happening all the time here…Even Vinod has joined the gang to muzzle Shenoy and Vijay.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Vijay,
    The headley testimony is just confirming the facts already known to our intelligence but if we look back with our interaction with US after arrest of Headley, US said that it can not disclose everything that Headley says.
    What about local help that Headley got? This should be our major concern.

    India is still lightweight in world politics. In fact we are far less important than pakistan for west and china so at least in the forseeable future, I don’t see US dumping pakistan for India. India doesn’t serve any strategic purpose of US and west so why should they treat India as full fledged ally.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajeev

    India has a growing trade with the US. Plus we buy a lo of arms from them. On the negative side they sell similar arms to the Pakistanis.

    But they have otherwise little support in Asia.

    Maybe we should use chanakya niti to keep reminding them that ultimately the investment into Pakistan will finally result in a nuclear missile delivered from Karachi to DC

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vijay,
    Selling Arms to India is just trade for US. It helps US grow jobs back home. We should not consider it as some kind of strategic arrangement..It is pure trade.

    Except of Japan-China-India, Asia has little influence in world politics. Out of three countries, Japan is loyal ally of India, China is biggest trade partner of west and India is somewhere in between confused about its role in geopolitical scene…Hum naa idhar ke hein naa udhar kein..

    The only way India can enhance its role is by increasing its exports to west, play a more forceful role in UNSC and stand up to bully like China. We can put pakistan on defensive by formenting trouble in Balochistan but in a very covert way. We should also keep playing Tibet card with China. The world only respects those country who show some spine and that means taking some risks.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Japan is loyal ally of USA

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay kumar, please remember JISKA DANDA USKA BHAINS

    [Reply]

  • Manohar_T

    @Vinodji

    This blog for the last two/three days has gone off track and many of the posters have brought the level down to plain disgust – abusing individuals and ideologies/religions, spewing venom and casting aspersions (in some instances using the fig leaf of a joke-telling) instead of debating the points raised.

    Do these posters expect any respect from others or expect that their their posts will be looked at seriously? If they do, then they are sadly mistaken. The posters on the either side of the divide seems to be feeding on each other. Where art thou cilivlised debate?

    Shouldn’t you be moderating the posts little more closely and deleting “offensive” content (banning the culprit is not the solution – he will take another identity and carry on) or everything goes in the name of Freedom of Speech?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Please ask prabhat to post his gems too…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    freedom is natural , nature is free .

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Just a sample of RAJEEV’S OBSCENITIES-

    thank you all for your support, particualrly Vinod ji. It is because of his personal and religious abuse that I always hesitated in tackling him. As I said- just a sample of a very sick mind-

    Rajeev Reply:

    April 21st, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    You won’t be able to catch my C**K if it entered your mouth so keep your big mouth SHUT.
    ++++++++
    .Rajeev Reply:

    April 22nd, 2011 at 1:59 am

    I know Mohammad loved being cunnylinguist to please 9 year old Ayesha..
    ++++++++
    ..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    April 29th, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Revealed from the arse of Mohammad…Are you telling me ‘not eating pork’ and ‘Halal’ are original Quranic concepts?
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Thank you all once again for your support, there were times when I wanted to leave the blog in disgust cos of tajender and RAJEEV

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You should know I was reacting to Ravi..Don’t quote people out of context.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rizwan;
    All these lines are very plebian, nay, preposterous. Just ignore them and concentrate on what you want to say.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    good advise

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @rajeev,
    you can make a fresh start.
    If you want , can apologize for some comments.
    I am sure you would agree many of those comments are un-civil and while they may have been made in response to some pakistani posters ( there have been a few before pakinder who were even more vile ), they still serve no good purpose and do not make this blog a nice place to be.

    Hope you can be generous and others too can stop reminding you of your past comments

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    There is no question of apology. I was only reacting to Ravi-Ram Autar combine. Rizwan should also post vile comments against India and hindu.

    I never start from my side but never back down if drawn into it.

    I’ll not tolerate this gang anymore.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    If you abuse back and retaliate to abuse, it will just make you equal to them.
    Remember, thats what some pakistanis who come here with abuse want, just reduce you to their level. The vilest abuse used to come from a pakistani here about 3 months ago. I forget his name. May be it was pakinder under a different name then.
    So as a request avoid profane language .

    Rizwan has wisely, not resorted to vile language.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I agree but I had to do that because some self-appointed moderators and their henchmen kept giving both Ravi and Ram Autar longest rope possible.

    Secondly this gang has made every debate about Punjabi Vs Bengali affair..How long can one take such nonsense?

    shan Reply:

    You can leave , i have described hindu gods and christian gods in unflattering terms, so have MARLOWE . The very reason it is done in India and the devoloped western democracies is the very reason , these societies are based on reason and rationality. For your kind of society with censorship and sanitised discussion you need a SANDY place. We beleive if we stuck to your ideal society , then we would be still beleiving EARTH IS FLAT(quoran) or sun revolves round the earth(catholic dogma)
    or NAG DEVTA(hindu)

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Shankaracharya speaks about Islam

    see his lecture on you tube

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Also regarding the Headley trial, while you may not see an immediate change in US policy towards pak because of the Afganistan fractor , its effect on public opinion is going to be profound, because never before has pak states complicity with terror laid bare in a court.
    That effect is being felt at 3 levels.

    1. US officials ( not public ) are now more aware of how ISI/pak operates. The mountain of evidense keeps rising.

    2. Many pakistanis, who were not really aware and dismissed all evidense as Indian propoganda, are becoming more aware of how the state of pakistan itself is involved in terrorism. I get that sense from reading tribune.com.pk where many pakistanis post comments and the trial is being held in USA.

    3. Many silly Indians who tended to minimize the organized criminality that pak state sponsors against neighbours.

    From India’s point of view, this trial in Chicago is the best thing that could have happened to expose pak-terrorism links. Congratulations are due to US prosecution that has done a through job in intersepting phone calls, wire-tapping and collecting all the evidense. Maybe Indian prosecutors and law enforcement can learn something here.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    US is not doing this to help India. By law FBI is bound to investigate murders of American. They are just following the law of the land. We are beneficiary of american legal system.
    I’d very happy the day ISI chief Shuja Pasha is forced to testify in US count.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    In US , the FBI is part of the government and will disclose only that much which US adminsitartion allows. In court documents whuich have been published, FBI has still censored some portions which reveal even more about individual ISI operatives.
    The legal system too while fairly independent but federal government still has enormous clout and influence.

    The family of Americans killed have now sued ISI/Pasha in a seperate case.
    Pak government is pressurizing US to oppose the case claiming soverign immunity.

    So it remains to be seen if US government helps the family of victims who have filed the case against ISI chief Pasha or goes to court and opposes the case on grounds of so called national interest.

    That case, if allowed to proceed and not opposed by US state department, will be very interesting.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajeevand rajiv, Guys do you really beleive that usa has been wiser only because of headley testimonials. Well I suggest you read OBAMA’S WAR by Bob Woodyard.
    George Bush Jnr was presented with irrevocable proof of ISI hand in glove with talibans attacking Nato and US forces. Bush retorted “I am not going to let this SOB pakistanis kill our boys”
    I have watched myself on TV Hilary Clinton telling pakistani shah mehmood quershi, and the people around him “WE KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THE PAKISTANI ESTABLISHMENT KNOW WHERE BIN LADEN IS , WE WOULD LIKE TO BRING HIM TO JUSTICE”
    The bottom line is WHAT WILL HAPPEN after the trial. it proves beyond doubt ISI hatched the 26/11, SO WHAT , pakistan will say headley was a double agent , he can say anything.
    SO IN PRACTICAL TERMS NOTHING WILL HAPPEN .
    But Samjhauta express will probably be an infrequent journey(send that geezer Aiyar on it back to his birth place), aman ki asha up your a r s e . More infiltration , another round of stone throwing in valley. Unless there is another 9/11 or 26/11 , NOT A GREAT DEAL WILL CHANGE ON THE GROUND.

  • Pankaj#1

    @ every one;
    There is a method in madness, as claimed by some junooni.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    :)

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    just noticed Rajeev’s comment above- …Rizwan should also post vile comments against India and hindu…..
    Is this man genuinely sick ? I love India and go back over the last 1 year and see my love for the country and ALL religions of India shine through

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    My mistake…what I meant was “Rizwan should also post vile comments against India and hindu posted by Ravi and Ram Autar”.

    Why don’t you start reading the context?

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vaidya;
    It is also said: Veda Ban kar Peda Kha: This is for self proclaimed Junoonis.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Correct words are…Yeda Ban kar Peda Khana

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Rajeev.

  • Rizwan

    Vinod ji, ball in your court. Some selective banning on the basis of email addresses or on IP identity will work wonders for the quality of these blogs. Others do it.
    This blog is like a hot debate in a university cafe- all kinds of opinions, including dangerous Arundati Roy type ones should be allowed, but BOTH personal and religious abuse should not be

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    C’mon are you serious? Have you ever debated seriously in your life?
    Why don’t you start participating in debate rather than doing Haanji Haanji?

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    moderating requires resources.
    I would prefer , in extreme cases ( vulgar personal abuse or vulgar religious abuse ), a warning followed by a 3 day ban.
    If that is violated again, a 1 month ban.
    If thats violated again, 1 year ban.

    Moderating should also be in moderation.
    But its never going to happen. HT sees no financial gain in allocvating resources for moderating.
    Also, I have often seen in sites that have moderators, they stifle debate and personal bias, egos of moderators come in.

    So best remedy is self-moderation and I request Rajeev once more to exercise it.

    You see, I severely criticize Pakistan,. political Islam ( I also acknowledge that political judaism, political christianity, political hinduism, political sikhism will all be bad, to varying degrees ) but dont see ever a need to use abusive language against the religion , because every person is different, even though his religion may be same.

    You may ask, why I am not requesting the same to pakinder ?
    Because he is incorrigible pakistani.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I totally agree with you. I’ll exercise self-moderation but that does not mean that I’ll let go people who abuse others under the pretext of protecting their faith.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Pankaj,
    ” it is showing some helpful attitude towards India”

    This is just to pressure Pakistan to give in. They know the best way to extract co-operation from pakistan is to get friendly with India.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    @Rizwan,
    My mistake…what I meant was “Rizwan should also post vile comments against India and hindu posted by Ravi and Ram Autar”.

    Why don’t you start reading the context?

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ———————————————————————————————————-
    This may not work att all, but lets make a fresh start
    ———————————————————————————————————–

    But lets make a fresh start here. No personal abuse.

    I mean calling someone a fool or idiot or old **** or anti-India , anti-pak ( yes I am ) is borderline okay. When I say personal abuse, it has to be more severe than that.

    No religion abuse.

    Calling a religious belief or practice as intolerant or primitive etc is okay.
    But no vulgar language directed at prophets, gods etc.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Agree totally.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    Great. Thank you so much.
    Lets consider this matter closed and hopefully all agree.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Rajiv,
    Don’t you think that Vinod Sharma should do a follow-up blog on Shanti Bhushan CD? He has very cleverly diverted the topic and is now posting blogs on pakistan.
    He should explain why he chose to be part of Amar-Diggi’s conspiracy.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Yes, I had posted a note from Shanti Bhushan, puiblshed in outlook, about 10 days ago and asked Mr Sharma if he was ready to apologize ?
    The core of Mr Bhushans argument was that the Central Forensic lab at chandigarh, had submitted a repot saying that the CD was fabricated. Centre/Congress govt is not publishing the report while it had a contrary report from the delhi lab, manufactured and presented in no time.

    But I dont expect an apology from Mr Sharma. If he apologized , I may have to say sorry for some things I have said about him !!!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Vinod’s apology will not serve any purpose. He should just set record straight and explain why he chose to be part of AMar-Diggi conspiracy?

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Here are some interesting comments from tribune.com.pk, while discussing pak army response against terrorism.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/176316/fighting-the-terrorists-defence-body-looks-to-strike-first-policy/

    yahya-ali
    its about time we cut the head of the snake i.e. Haqqani network

    Recommended 22

    Imran
    Intensification of the campaign should begin from Bahawalpur and Muridke then to North Waziristan. That will give an unequivocal message to the world that we are committed to fighting.

    Recommended25

    Khalid Javed
    Things still can work out if post-meeting things move beyond shallow rhetoric. Sri Lanka-like approach to eradicate terrorism might be adopted. Military has capability to reach out to the tribal belt which is the epicenter of terrorists’ activities & exterminate them. The action should be swift, stern & conclusive before their white-skinned mentors could could reach out to their rescue.

    Recommend6

    Kazmis
    My impression is that, this Defense Committee Meeting was not to review PNS Mehran but to consider and prepare for Hillary Clinton’s Visit and her BIG PROPOSAL.

    Recommended6

    KHALID KAMAL
    Time to change The Guard on watch.
    They have failed miserably on all accounts… all must go with Ali BABA

    Recommend4

    muhammad amjad

    The establishment should stop hiding the truth & change their policy.They’ve been supporting islamic terrorist groups for far too long.The agencies have provided funding,protection & support to islamic fundamentalists who are now killing us in the name of islam.The attackers at GHQ,PNS MEHRAN were muslims,everyone knows it,the agencies brought in maulana ludhianvi to negotitiate with the attackers at GHQ to ask them to surrender,this shows that it was the islamic fundamentalists who had attacked GHQ but the media only slightly covered this fact.Why does our media especially after the mehran base attack try to paint it as an outside conspiracy when we all know that the terrorists attacking & killing us scream “Allah ho akbar” when blowing themselves up.

    Recommended13

    SK
    why they always impose full confidence on capabilities of armed forces and law enforcement agencies? why not be honest for once and do surgery to figure out what is really wrong and/or missing and how lackings can be addressed?

    After all we are seeing suicide attacks everyday, terror strikes on military installations, crime rates sky rocketing, how come all of that is happening if everything is ok. It is about time that we started questioning what is wrong and do the right things to put house in order

    Recommend9

    Kamran

    We are victims of a great fallacy. We have groomed a snake hatchery in our midst in the hope that the snakes thus produced will go and bite our neighbours. To nobody’s surprise, except our own, the snakes are now roaming freely in our homes biting all at will. But we are still protecting the hatchery with our lives in the hope that the snakes will bite our neighbours

    ——————————————-

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    After PNS Mehran attack, Pakistan has banned people from Tableeghi Jamaat from entering defence bases.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    If they did so, they should announce it publicly.
    Or do they want to just protect the army bases and let loose the people of tablighi jamaat all over the people of pakistan ?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    It was there in DAWN.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    pankaj and ravi bhai listen following on you tube

    Shankaracharya speaks about Islam

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    he is fake shankaracharya…typcial jehadi propaganda.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    ignore, ignore, ignore (pakinder )

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Handlers Guided Mumbai Attackers on Phone: Headley
    http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?723109

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    The role of Barkha Dutt during 26/11 attack..

    This is the original Piece written by Chyetanya Kunte, later retracted.

    “Shoddy journalism

    Appalling journalism. Absolute blasphemy! As I watch the news from home, I am dumbfounded to see Barkha Dutt of NDTV break every rule of ethical journalism in reporting the Mumbai mayhem.

    Take a couple of instances for example:
    In one instance she asks a husband about his wife being stuck, or held as a hostage. The poor guy adds in the end about where she was last hiding. Aired! My dear friends with AK-47s, our national news is helping you. Go get those still in. And be sure to thank NDTV for not censoring this bit of information.

    In another instance, a General sort of suggests that there were no hostages in Oberoi Trident. (Clever.) Then, our heroine of revelations calls the head of Oberoi, and the idiot confirms a possibility of 100 or more people still in the building. Hello! Guys with guns, you’ve got more goats to slay. But before you do, you’ve got to love NDTV and more precisely Ms. Dutt. She’s your official intelligence from Ground zero.

    You do not need to be a journalist to understand the basic premise of ethics, which starts with protecting victims first; and that is done by avoiding key information from being aired publicly—such as but not limited to revealing the number of possible people still in, the hideouts of hostages and people stuck in buildings.

    Imagine you’re one of those sorry souls holed-up in one of those bathrooms, or kitchens. A journalist pulls your kin outside and asks about your last contact on national television, and other prying details. In a bout of emotion, if they happen to reveal more details, you are sure going to hell. Remember these are hotels, where in all likelihood, every room has a television. All a terrorist needs to do is listen to Ms. Barkha Dutt’s latest achievement of extracting information from your relative, based on your last phone-call or SMS. And you’re shafted—courtesy NDTV.1
    If the terrorists don’t manage to shove you in to your private hell, the journalists on national television will certainly help you get there. One of the criticisms about Barkha Dutt on Wikipedia reads thus:

    During the Kargil conflict, Indian Army sources repeatedly complained to her channel that she was giving away locations in her broadcasts, thus causing Indian casualties.
    Looks like the idiot journalist has not learned anything since then. I join a number of bloggers pleading her to shut the f⋅⋅⋅ up.
    Update: In fact, I am willing to believe that Hemant Karkare died because these channels showed him prepare (wear helmet, wear bullet-proof vest.) in excruciating detail live on television. And they in turn targeted him where he was unprotected. The brave officer succumbed to bullets in the neck.

    Update 2 [28.Nov.2300hrs]: Better sense appears to have prevailed in the latter half of today—either willfully, or by Government coercion2, and Live broadcasts are now being limited to non-action zones. Telecast of action troops and strategy is now not being aired live. Thank goodness for that.
    Update 3 [30.Nov.1900hrs]: DNA India reports about a UK couple ask media to report carefully:
    The terrorists were watching CNN and they came down from where they were in a lift after hearing about us on TV.
    — Lynne Shaw in an interview.
    1. Oh, they have a lame excuse pronouncing that the television connections in the hotel has been cut, and therefore it is okay to broadcast. Like hell!
    2. I’m thinking coercion, since Government has just denied renewing CNN’s rights to air video today; must’ve have surely worked as a rude warning to the Indian domestic channels”

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Its was irresponsible and immature. I think the press has adopted some new rules since then.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv and Rajeev

    The worse is yet to come from Barkha. After news of her linkup with Kanimozhi was leaked, she tried to intimidate manu Joseph with a mile long legal notice.

    NOw yesterday NDTV was trying a stunt to get Kanimozhi out of jail. Why and How??

    By wailing that she is a delicate woman. Woh maa hai… uske bachche bahar tadap rahe hai…

    Uska booda baap pareshaan hai…

    This sort of crapwork which passes as journalism!!

    It will be a pity that out threat of getting blackmailed by the DMK some channels start portraying Kanimozhi as a wronged person…

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Well DMK and its agents/allies are working full time on her bahalf.
    Its still however amazes me that she is in jail.

    I had thought that would not be possible.

    Hopefully she and her associates in scam, will stay there long time.
    Thats were the challenge is and history of Indian legal system is not very good on that aspect.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Shanti Bhushan on CFSL report-
    http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271902

    Degrading Institutions
    Whether it is the governors or the CBI, or the ED or the IT department or the CVC, all their heads are carefully chosen to suit the Congress party’s interests. Now take the CFSL (CBI) Delhi…
    SHANTI BHUSHAN
    TEXT SIZE
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    COMMENTS

    ALSO IN THIS STORY
    From 4th May onwards, I have written various letters to the special cell of the Delhi Police, the Home Minister and the Prime Minister, for giving me a copy of the report of the CFSL Chandigarh, which has declared the CD, purportedly containing a conversation between me, Mulayam Singh and Amar Singh, to be a fabricated CD, with the conversation being a cut and paste job.

    It is indeed suspicious that the report of CFSL (CBI) Delhi, declaring the conversation in the CD to be authentic, was promptly released, while the report given by CFSL Chandigarh is being kept under wraps.

    Since the director of CFSL (CBI) Delhi is an ad-hoc appointee, whose confirmation as director is yet to be decided by the appointment committee, which has both the Prime Minister and the Home Minister on it, it was easy for influential congress leaders to pressure it to do an unpardonable job of declaring the CD, which was an obvious fabrication, to be an authentic one

    Since the CFSL (CBI) Delhi gives hundreds of reports even year in criminal cases, it was necessary to take action against the scientists. including the ad-hoc director who has signed the report. in order to salvage the reputation of CFSL (CBI) Delhi.

    Every knowledgeable person in India has known that for the last four decades, the Congress has been systematically compromising every independent institution in the country and making them the handmaidens of the party to suit its interests.

    Whether it is the governors or the CBI, or the enforcement directorate or the income tax department or the CVC, all their heads are carefully chosen to suit the Congress party’s interests. This can be seen in the way the previous CVC. who was removed by the Supreme court. was chosen by the Prime Minister and the Home minister, or the way in which the CBI is behaving in the two corruption cases against Mayawati (The Taj corridor case and the disproportionate assets case). in which the CB1 has filed charge- sheets, by changing their stance from time to time, whenever the Congress party needs the help of Mayawati.

    The Congress had degraded independent institutions to such an extent that. in 1977, when I became Law minister, the then chief election commissioner, who was appointed during the congress government’s tenure, came to pay a courtesy call in my office, and I was truly shocked. when he quietly suggested to me that whenever I wanted something to be done by the election commission, I should quietly speak to him.

    Even the Chief Justice of India, M.H. Beg, was chosen by superseding the great judge H.R. Khanna. who attained worldwide fame for his dissent in the Habeas Corpus case during emergency. M.H. Beg had of course ingratiated himself to the Congress by deciding (of course wrongly) Indira Gandhi’s election petition in a blatantly unfair manner, where he decided upon points without even allowing the counsel to address the court on them.

    The latest instance of the flagrant misuse of the Governor’s of fice by the Congress is H.R. Bhardwaj’s latest report to the centre, recommending President’s rule in Karnataka.

    Being now totally convinced that even with a very honest and well meaning Prime Minister, the Congress government is not going to stop its misuse of all institutions that were meant to be independent, I have decided not to have any further correspondence either with the Prime Minister or the Home minister, but to raise these issues only in the People’s Court, where the ultimate sovereignty resides in a Republic.

    Ultimately it is only the people and the Supreme Court which the Congress government will have to face.

    It is only under the very strict monitoring by the Supreme Court, that the CBI, the ED and the IT department have been compelled to do their job, on account of which a former cabinet minister, top bureaucrats, and corporate honchos find themselves in Tihar jail.

    It is for this reason that I am opening a line directly w ith the people of India to tell them how low the influential congress leaders are stooping and why they need to be checked by the people, so that we can again have an India with independent institutions performing their duty in accordance with law and India emerging in the world as a top country wedded to the rule of law.

    While some sections of the media might have compromised their independence, a vast section of the media did not do so. Even some of those in the former category realized their mistakes and redeemed themselves in connection with the fabricated CD.

    I am hopeful that the Indian media would continue to perform its role of a watchdog against wrong doings and continue to serve the people of India.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Well done – matter closed- a big thanks to these who are not only civil and dignified but also have the guts to stand up for what is unacceptable- in particular-

    Rajiv
    Dr Mishra
    Dr Pankaj

    sorry if I cannot think of the others now, but the gud gentlemen know who they are.

    I copy Mishraji again who once said- if a blog can be read by your parent , spouse and your child- then it is a litmus test.

    Vinod ji, you the boss, you decide the bans.
    Pl do not ban my pahattas- poor jokes- I will be vaary misearable

    hehe

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Will you shut and post something related to the topic…This is not some chai ki dukaan.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    barkha sodden big b u m backhander dutt(rizwan beta so ja ) , is a sleazy character.
    After the radia episode , her name and photograph was all over the net , with some using languages that will make this blog look like a religion web site.
    India desparately needs another NATIONAL english news channel.They have monopolised opinion.
    Regarding 26/11 coverage IT WAS VILE , vultures feeding on people’s misery.
    I vividly remember one shot. This was live reporting .A dead body was was being loaded onto an ambulance from the TAJ.THE CAMERAMAN ASKED THE STRETCHER BEARERS TO ROMOVE THE DRAPE FROM THE FACE ,SO THAT THE MUTILATED FACE IS CAPTURED.
    I say these are M f …ers.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    Do you think the Headley trial will actually result in US putting pressure on Pakistan to dissolve the ISI or at least split it as Musharraf was asked.?

    Of course then the ISI will just resurface under different avtars, much like the Jamaat or the various Pakistani voices we see on this blog

    in any case ~~ THE HEADLEY TRIAL IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT FOR INDIA~~~

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kumar

    May I ask as why do you think that trial would directly influence US policy towards ISI.

    What ever information that will become public during the trial has been known to most of the US inteligence community for years.

    US may wish to put pressure on US to close ISI but it will have very little to do with the trial.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    US may wish–Pressure on US? who is US here?

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Pakaj

    US remqainsw the principal alms thrower at Pakistan. They only listen to US and China. Since our own foreign office is headed by the ineffective SM Krishana and our own Pm has chosen to be bhai bhai with the Pakistanis, we now have to look at US for putting the pressure.

    @ Ravi

    Being known to the public is hugely different from being known to the CIA and FBI. The US presidents are very much guided by how the American public percieves them.

    As facts of Pakistani terror games gets more publicity in the US, the CIA will find it harder to tango with Pakistan. This will lead to more drone attacks and a confrontation between US and Pakistan.

    And maybe a curtailment of aid and military hardware.

    Of course we have to factor in the selfishness of US policy which does not give importance to the innocent Indians killed.

    however we can at least try to sink in a wedge between Pakistan and US so that the ISI and Pak military weakens and stops its games…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, Pankaj ji,

    We have a PM whose head is under a pagdi (no disrespect to him)
    We have a FM whose head is under a wig ( nothing wrong with the wig)

    the PM is a peacenik
    the FM is a nothing-nik (meaning we don’t know what he stands for)
    Behind them a whole lot of kabaab-niks, screaming, “dosti, bhai chaara, gazal, kabaab……”

    Unfortunately for India, what all these people together think, goes.

    And on the other side, the only people who talk are the Tajenders and Ravis. Others do what they are trained for: bomb and bust, bomb and kill.

    A VERY DISMAL SCENARIO.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    Yes, it is a dismal scenario.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv,

    Information of Pakistani terror was always known to the CIA and FBI. However once the American public gets more info on this there would be pressure on the US president to curtail aid and arms for Pakistan.

    That is a good scenario for India.

    In the best case scenario, the Americans may suddenly pounce on their illegitmate child and do what they did in Iraq :D

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Vijay

    Its a million dollar question.
    Can Pakistan change ?

    I dont know the answer but the outlook is negative. They would have to change so much, starting with their evaluation of history , national philosophy and narrative they have built about themselves and what Pakistan is about.

    Its very difficult and usually happens under extreme shock.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    For a revolutionary change, I think one would need a leader/person like Gandhi or Mandela to get Pakistan out of the morass and it would probably still take decades to do so, as it seems that saner voices are in a small minority at the moment. There are no overnight quick-fix solutions for the “second liberation”.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    One person can not change the thing. it needs organization of committed people, like one Englishman can not build empire.

    Pakistanis are our brothers. So it is our moral responsibility to help them. I think it is time staunch secularist Hindus and Sikhs such as Nehru dynasty, Lalu prasad, Mulayam, Yechuri, Teesta Setalvad, Kuldip Nayyar, Khuswant Singh, Sacchar, Vinod Sharma etc. all move to Pakistan to help them build tolerant minority friendly Pakistan of Jinnah’s vision and to bring a lasting peace in South Asia.

    This can be modern Indian Vanara sena marching to destroy Talibani Rakshas.

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @Observer

    When I talk of one man, it means a leader to lead the rest, building a team as he goes along.

    Observer Reply:

    @Manohar_T

    But still a raw material is needed for building a team, a person can not create a team in vacuum, therefore some Hindu secularists preferably Punjabi, Sindhi.or Urdu speaking people need to move to Pakistan to provide necessary support structure, like the Congress in early twentieth century provided for Mahatma Gandhi.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Can Pakistan change?

    :) This hope is same as finding life on moon.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv,

    I dont see that happening in Pakistan. The only leader with some charisma to bring this change is
    is Imran Khan and he is aligned with the TTP.

    Further he is anti American and Pakistan needs dollars like you and me need air for breathing :D

    The only thing they can achieve is a balnce of terror by a tri-furcation of Pakistan where the world feels safe as they would be fighting amongst themselves…

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    If you ask me whats the purpose of India , I would say

    Its to build a nation that guarantees liberty, fairness, justice and equality of opportunity to all its citizens ( irrespective of religion, language, ethnicity etc ) and helps the economically ( not based on caste ) weaker sections to compete.

    Now , thats almost exactly what the Indian constitution aims at , except I dont like caste based reservations. Economic status based reservations are okay.
    Without noble goals , its hard for a nation to survive and succeed. Its those noble aspirations and goals that act as a glue that hold a nation together. It inspires people.

    Now whats the goal of Pakistan as articulated by its constitution and the army/isi ?
    I hear the word ‘Islamic’ in every sentence they say and not much about anything else.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    The purpose of India is to keep Nehru dynasty in power perpetually. Purpose of Pakistan is to oppose India. This is battle between egos of Nehru and Jinnah. It will go on until India finally sends Nehru dynasty to pasture.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ RAJIV

    Fantastic diagnosis…

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Did you know that, UAE owns a private air port in Baluchistan, for its private pleasure.
    Pakistan has sold land to it and looks like also has sold its soveriginity over it.

    UAE in turn has rented that air-port to US army !

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/176436/wikileaks-uae-expressed-concern-over-balochistan-airstrip-leak/

    “Earlier, the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) deputy chief had revealed that the Shamsie airbase in Balochistan was not under their control as it was funded and constructe by the UAE. The PAF chief had made this revelation during an in-camera session of both houses of parliament following the unilateral operation by US forces in Abbottabad that killed Osama bin Laden.”

    Bizarre !

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rajiv, Not Bizarre at all. This is all a smoke screen. CANNOT GIVE IT DIRECTLY TO INFIDEL AMERICA , looks bad , thus this CONVINIENT ARRANGEMENT.
    Bottom line is headley trial will make no difference at all.IF JEWISH LOBBY CANNOT SCRATCH THE PAKISTAN POLICY ,nothing else can.
    Only another 9/11 or clear proof of zawahiri or one eyed mullah in pakistan ,and US does Abottabad part 2, then it becomes interesting. It is possible Military Aid should surely freeze.
    OTHER THAN THAT NOT A GREAT DEAL WILL CHANGE ON THE GROUND.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Rajiv

    Some very interesting facts . It seems Pakistan has mortgaged its sovereignty to more than one country. Now it looks that Pakistan is shedding only crocodile tears while complaining that the world does not respect its sovereignty.
    BNA

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ——————————————————————————————————————————–
    From Chicago Trial, what did Pak national Cleric, Hafeez Saeed Muhammad, say to 26/11 terrorists…
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    Lashkar-e-Taiba supreme commander Hafiz Muhammad Saeed told the 10-member assault team, which attacked Mumbai in November 2008, that “being shot would feel like a pinprick, bloodstains would be like rose petals, and that angels would come down to take their souls.”

    (almost poetic )

    Saeed’s exhortation, revealed in documents filed by prosecutors in the ongoing trial of Chicago-based terror suspect Tahawwur Rana, was made after the assault team members were told they were expected to die in the attack on Mumbai — rather than escape as earlier planned.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2051816.ece?homepage=true

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    To get back to the subject of the blog, and contrary to the wishful thinking here that Pakistan will convienently implode for us, sadly we are a long way away from that.
    I did mention that 2 things have changed about Pakistan, as compared with the schoolboy whose *** we whupped in 1971-
    - THE ‘ATUM BUMB’
    THE GLOBAL JEHADI MACHINERY

    Anything India does will have to keep these 2 in mind. Also let me say something very provocative, agar hisaab kitaab dekhen to India pichle 15 saal se ghaate mein hai. Lets see-
    Kandahar hijack
    Kashmir
    Kargil
    Kasab
    Bomb blasts all over

    So exciting though it is to exult at Pak misery right now and dream of attacking them, the score is depressingly in their favour. Yes, the bitter truth is that under the nuclear threat, Pak has become very bold. Kargil would NEVER have happened if they were not nuclear.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Mishra,
    I think you should read the posts before assuming what others are saying ! I see hardly anyone here ( let me say NO-ONE ) arguing for attacking Pakistan.
    Its like getting your hands dirty by ******* a rat.

    In fact its the atum bumb and the jehadi machinery thats taking it along the path of perdition.
    No outside help or assistance required nor needed.

    The question is will it change or implode or keep going at the current trajectory for ever.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rajiv

    In your opinion the Atomic Bomb and the Jihadi Machinery are the two active ingredients which are propelling Pakistan towards self implosion.

    It is easy to understand how Jihadi Machinery is causing Pakistan untold damage, but I am not sure if it will inevitably become the cause of its destruction. States take a long time to dies if they ever do. Somalia is a case in point. It has had no functioning government for over 20 years. War lords more ferocious that Taliban control large swathes of its territory. Civil war caused the former federation Yugoslavia to fragment, and now Serbia and Croatia are knocking the doors of EU for membership.

    Whilst I would agree that Taliban are damaging Pakistan, but it is a resilient state and would survive this nasty ordeal.

    I am intrigued as to what is in your mind when you say the Atomic Bomb is also driving Pakistan towards its destruction.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I now genuinely believe Ki kutte ki poonch seedhi ho sakti hai :)

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    Yes, these atomic bombs are allowing Pakistan to feel that it is big enough to challenge every one and have its way. And that is precisely its undoing. If it comes to crunch time, these bombs will be cause of its annhilation and not vice versa.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    I have understood, what you are trying to say. But look it from other perspective. This street goon thinks that it has a pistol hidden on his person and the babu will not dare to challenge him. Anyway, he has not much to lose, but babu has his job, family and status in society. But if contrary to his beleif, babu pulls out a gun and shoot him before goon withdraws his pistol, goon will be in dust and babu will go to his home. Now, extrapolate this situatuin, Police will not harras babu for using his gun( Licensed),. So other ntions will not castigate India to use Covert/overt actions against this street goon of name, Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Dr mishra and Pankaj

    Just factor in China and you will know why Pakistan feels bold even when it attacks American inrtersts.

    But I know for sure that the Chinese are very hard task masters. Thier Engineers were kidnapped at the Naval dockyard attack. They will throw a RMb at the Pakistanis and want two back.

    Further they would be scard of Religious terror and jehadis entering China. SO Visas and migration to Pakistanis wont happen easily. They have little by way of soft power to attract Paksitani youth.

    In the end it is just a marriage of convenience and could end very very bitterly…

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    Sharmaji,
    Pakistani State appears to be in a very very difficult situation – to say the least.
    At one hand the U.S. is pressuring it in “not doing enough” with war on terror , on the other hand the “domestic constituency” doesn’t at all appear willing to place trust on it’s “Siyaasat”.
    And whatt “Siyaasat” this – several actors appear to be running the show simultaneously.
    We can go on and on about the situation – but please allow me to offer a different direction.
    Imagine that Suddenly, owing to some magical situation, Pakistan were to be bestowed / blessed / thrust with a very very different leadership such as , say , Nelson Mandela.
    What would be leadership’s priorities under given circumstances ?
    Understand this – the new leadership has all the free hand to act , including limiting their role in “war on terror” . What should the new leadership do ?
    Am throwing up this question to folks on both sides of the border for a genuine debate.
    And , btw, before we start discussing – please allow me to offer guidelines for the debate …..
    From my (Indian ) side – fellas please try not to overwhelm the debate by harping back on “failed state” theme. Understand this – we are trying a genuine engagement exercise here. Let us honour each other’s sensibilities.
    For Pakistanis – try not not to harp on “Militarism based One-upmanship” when debating.
    In short, trolls from both sides of the border – please stay away from the debate if you cannot debate genuinely honouring each other’s concerns and sensibilities.
    Another thing – while we are at it , please feel free to bring out your genuine apprehensions about each other in a civilised way. Let us address the hatred as well.
    Cheers,
    Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Dear Mahesh, I am a cynic. Giving Pak a good leader will not be enough- the cancer of hatred is deep down in their awam. I for one do not buy this over emotional Indian mantra- the people on both sides of the border want peace, it is just the leaders who are bad.
    Sorry, maybe a third of the Pak population could quite merrily want us vapourised in a big nuclear mushroom.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Dr, Mishra,
    Thanks.
    It is a nice thing that the “cynics” are debating in a civilised way. Sort of serves well my intent of bringing the mutual apprehensions to the table.
    Thanks again,
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Mahesh,

    What is the point of talking to “reasonable elements” in Pakistan if they too are convinced about conspiracy theories?

    In the end the idiots like Mani Silncer Aiyar charter a plane to Pakistan and declare that a “third power’ does not want want two subcontental brothers to love each other… or that sort of nonsense. Its funny that Mani’s charter palne with all the aman ki aasha type of dunces was turned back from Karachi airport a few weeks back :D

    Unke andhe pyaar ko bhi Pakistani jehadiyon ne thukra diya !!

    This leftist dream dosh segment is dangerous to India. It is itching to land on Pakistni soil and declare that all the problms of Pakistan and India can be traced to BJP and SHIV Sena or some similar nonsense…

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    “………the cancer of hatred is deep down in their awam…….”

    Vow!! sorry to make you feel like that but seriously is the feeling mutual?

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Usman;
    Feeling is not mutual. This feeling has been created by GOP, in very artificial manner. On the contrary, GOI has not left any stone unturned to create an atmosphere of friendship.

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    Hello Everyone,

    Not a one man show rather a collective effort. Only strong parliament can make this happen given honest and faithfulness traits as prerequisite.

    What should Pakistan do (under the circumstances) to get out of this: A different perspective
    ———————————————————————————————–

    I say the biggest threat that Pakistan can have is not from outside (keeping in view US anger and bombing in obsession to chase the state who safeguards terrorists and provides them shelter) but rather from inside at the hands of TTP militancy who have taken a vow to take revenge against Pakistani establishment and military forces for the killing of OBL.

    Having said this, its an eye opener if actually the military was involved in the whole scenario of Osama episode and taking a due share in the military action. Rather the world believes that Pak Army and ISI was the one who sheltered Osama. It was a sole operation. Is the TTP really blind??
    What adds salt to injury is the US behavior. There has been constant drone attacks on the tribal belt which is fueling more to flame and adding nothing but aggravating the situation at hand. Again a grim situation for Pakistan. Stop this from happening and take a firm and assertive stand over it. Any external pressure should automatically break all supply routes to NATO in Afghanistan. No compromise.

    ————–
    Up next: Political engagement with TTP and tribal agencies. Table talks like the way US is prepared for with Taliban. A shame that Sam would like to have something on table but restrict Pakistan not to do so.

    Usman
    Pakistan

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Usman,
    You say the biggest threat to Pak is from
    1. TTP ( Tehrik a taleban Pakistan ). One of the few militant groups in Pakistan , that is not under the control of the pak state ( isi/army ). TTP want to rule parts of Pakistan in the north and west and is in fight with Pak army. You may call it gang-warfare between two armed groups , both evil from India’s point of view. But TTP does not train and arm LeT militants, Pak state/army/ISI does.

    I say the biggest threat to pakistan is from the pak practice of having friendly militant groups the laergest of which is

    1. LeT ( Pak states favourite militant groups ) with its headquarters outside Lahore in Mudrike and the execution wing of ISI. Just look at the phone intercepts, e-mails and evidense at Chicago trial. I know that the pak response is that , its all US-Zionist-Hindu propoganda , but still take a look at the evidense at Chicago trial.
    Pak has severel other militant groups , that it considers friendly, as they attack India and Afganistan ( Haqanni faction ).

    Pak can and will defeat TTP but will lose the war unles it fights its cherished and favourite militant groups like – the LeT.

    …. and thats never going to happen unless Pak state ideology changes.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Usman,

    when Pakistani establishment says US and Pakistan are ally in fight against t-e-r-r-o-r, what does that mean? Doesn’t it mean that Pakistani establishment agrees that in order to eliminate t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-ts, Pakistan offer total co-operation even if the t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-ts are in Pakistan? So why are Pakistanies are so surprised and feeling angered for US? Your own establishment went into pact with US for precisely this reason – any t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-ts finding shelters in Pakistan will be eliminated.

    America knows t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-ts find shelters in Pakistan and is chasing them in your country. Drone attacks are part of this pursuit. Presence of OBL in your country only weakens your position against drone attacks.

    When you say that Pakistan should take assertive stand on it, which, usually commentators in Pakistan involve in these rhetorical talks. However, they never answer the questions that immediately spring in the scenario following it.

    Does being assertive mean ordering Americans to simply leave your country? Does that mean adopting a position that even if Americas’ enemies are found in Pakistan, US will not be allowed to go after them because it violets Pakistan’s sovereignity? Are you prepared for the US’s response in reply to this? Does it mean you are going to take on US if they unilaterally decide to eliminate its enemies in Pakistan (which it is already doing)? Does that mean refusing aid from US for not being an ally? Does it mean stop buying military equipments from them which your military desparately need to counter perinnial threat from India? By rebuffing US and harboring its enemies, are you prepared to face US’s wrath? Do you really think Pakistan have an option but to go along with US for your own good?

    [Reply]

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    Khushagra,

    Frankly, it is US who needs more of Pakistan then Pakistan needs US.

    Yes, it does mean that Pakistani establishment agrees in cooperation even if the terrorist are in Pakistan. What both fail to recognize is that not everyone is terrorist. Terrorists are not born out of womb of mother, circumstances make it happen. The difference lies in unnecessary bombings, without even the mutual consent of Pak army, killing hundreds of innocents without any reason. Those who have lost their loved ones have no other option to take revenge and fight against state and become suicide bombers. I must say US is doing this on purpose. Nearly every time when political agents broke a peace deal with the tribal insurgents we witnessed drone attacks. Back in 2008 army was forced to take action against them, that is why their heads are now turned against Pak military. Who aided insurgents with intelligence is another network, it is another story untold. It is brutal war of intelligence agencies who play at both ends of the street.

    So rather to play dual games make it simple straight (black and white) as who is your foe and friend. Pakistan has to wipe out tribal insurgency not by gun but through dialog.
    As for inviting US wrath less said better. A country who would implant malicious reasons to go into war with Iraq and bomb Afghanistan has yet to setup a strong foot hold in either of the country. They have achieved literary nothing.

    But this is easy said then done. Being assertive is to convince someone about the adverse consequences of it. If no military/financial support is given that would least make a difference. Nations don’t loose because of financial dearth they loose when moral characters are lost. Quiet frankly the later part has to be put under the microscope, when and where things went wrong.

    Usman
    Pakistan

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Usman;
    You do not realise, that pakistan has no option. Not even, blocking route for NATO supply. Pakistan has lost its Sovereignty long time back. Either it has to do, what ever it is told it to do, or face consequence. Try to understand, world has changed and there is no options for games. It is not news papers, which will give you info. You should have a chance to go out of Pakistan and see, where world has gone.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    You said… “Pakistan has lost its Sovereignty long time back…”

    It is important to remember that it lost its virginity much before that. When it sank into a state of army control with a singular aim of attacking India. Maybe in the 50’s…

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    Mr Pankaj,

    You can judge me wrong; but truth of the matter is wiping out militancy is no easy task. It is mainly because of US dictation and bully remarks “With us or Against us”; “We’ll send you back in stone age” that has created wrongs and difficulties for Pakistan. My take is put a pause here; redefine the strategy to bring normalcy, engage through political reasons. Certainly, it might sound crazy when you tele it with the advancing world under the given circumstances this the only best possible way to engage and reemerge from pile of heap and dust.

    Usman

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    @ Usman;
    what I wrote, is true and no exaggeration whatsoever. I do not believe in bullying of pakistani masses. They have been duped by their leaders and their rightful dues are being squandered in toys for boys or bullet proof mercedeses. Few thousand elites, have taken over Pakistan and bleeding it relentlessly. Can you tell me about few good schemes, initiated by government and successfully implemented? GOP has very successfully changed the psyche of your people and most of them perceive India as its enemy. This starts from the feelings of yore, even at mohalla level, when even dog will be designated as Muslim dog or Hindu dog. Muslim Paani or Hindu Paani. Indians have left that stage, while, unfortunately Pakistan is still clinging to this kind of thinking. For your military bosses, nothing is more important than self aggrandisement and for civil rulers to line their pockets to maximum.People like Faiz and Zalib are no where to be seen and Zaid Ahmad has big following. Introspect and think where Pakistan is heading for.

    Manohar_T Reply:

    Usman sahib

    IMO, the drone attacks would cease, if the Pakistani establishment were to be very energetic in eliminating the undesirable elements themselves and that too successfully. No window dressing.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Mr. Usman

    I believe in your being honest in introspecting. So I always avail of the opportunity to converse with you when ever there is a chance.
    Well, when you say that Pakistan government may attempt political engagement with TTP , it sounds as much alarming as US trying to engage Taliban in Afghanistan. The aim of both the outfits (TTP and Afghan Taliban) is to introduce 100% shariat law in both the countries so as to make both the countries the nurseries of growth of Islam in the world. I believe even if US leaves Afghanistan, Pakistan will still have to battle with TTP. It is a new phenomenon in the politics of Pakistan. I do not know whether you agree with me or not that religion extremism of both the outfits ring danger signals for both the countries, especially with Pakistan as while all said and done, a part of Pakistani society seems to being liberal in their way of living. While the people of Pakistan may not like the stringent principles of Islam to be followed in day to day life as would be under the dictates of TTP, they do pay lip service for these to be followed. So until, the people of Pakstan liberate themselves from the religious extremism, my feeling is that they would be always fighting the religious diehards even if US quits from Pakistan and Afghanistan. I base my views because of the reason that all the terror acts being seen in your country are all being owned by TTP.

    I may be wrong in my judgment but that is how I feel.
    Regards
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Dr Anand, a good summation of the situation.. There is a liberal elite which hates sharia and Taleban, but sadly this liberal elite has anti Indian and anti Jew anti USA in their genes by now. WHAT A MESS

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    Hello Dr Anand,

    It is true the way you said and plotting it futuristically. That is where i repeat and lay emphasis on political fight rather than military engagement. If some demands are met and free and fair justice is delivered miracles can happen. If some breakthrough is made in a right direction the majority need not to worry. The whole 90s didn’t witnessed any bloodshed despite existence of such elements. People want peace and sovereignty in that area and like i mentioned before drone attacks are only making things worse and creating complexities and anger.

    Usman

    Kushagra Reply:

    Usman – “Frankly, it is US who needs more of Pakistan then Pakistan needs US.”

    While your national pride can be understood from this statement, yet please elaborate in what sense US needs Pakistan more than Pakistan then needs US? Does US need economic co-operation from Pakistan? Does US needs military aid from Pakistan? Does US needs Pakistan’s co-opeartion in war against terror? Does US needs Pakistan’s intelligence in its war against enemies?

    By all means there isn’t anything which demostrates US needs any significant help from Pakistan. They do their drone attacks unilaterally, they don’t rely on your army or intelligence for their pursuit, OBL case proves it.

    All it appears that they dole out some form of token aid to Pakistan’s military and government to see no evil, say no evil and hear no evil.

    Rest of my questions remained unanswered in your reply.

    While in principle I agree with what you said about how things ’should be’ in Pakistan. The question is not of how ideally they should be but of what they are going to be in the given circumstances.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mahesh;
    I was looking forward to engage with you since long time. Now you say, what is the apprehension of pakistan from India, Can you elaborate on this. From indian side, I will try my bit. Indians do not want pakistan to create problems for India by stoking communalism, putting obstacles in the path of progress of India and playing side kicks to China, to thwart, India in getting its rightful place in global affairs. this is just begining, let me hear from you further.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Mahesh,

    if you are really sincere in trying to understand Pakistani predicament the following example will give you some understanding.

    How would you feel if a guy bloodied you, walk away with an item which you think was yours , then the same guy start lecturing you about how his moral standards are higher then yours, calls you thief, fanatic, terrorist etc. and periodically puts salt in your wound? This is how Pakistani establishment feels about India.

    Wouldn’t you have the guy rather walk off and never bother you again rather being permanently in your face and lecturing whenever he gets chance? This is what India under Nehru dynasty has been doing to Pakistan..that case, Wouldn’t you feel desire to inflict thousand wounds on that person?

    In 1947 if India had taken the whole Kashmir Pakistan would have sooner or later reconciled to the loss of Kashmir, as they did about loss of Bangladesh. But instead of that India took the case to UN and forced Pakistani establishment to be hostage to that issue, since no Pakistani leader can give up Kashmir, for which so much emotions have been invested, and survive.

    In addition, India took active part in breaking up Pakistan into Pakistan and Bangladesh. But again India did not seize Kashmir and kept the problem festering.

    Unless India totally disowns NEHRU DYNASTY and their vision, especially SECULARISM, which may provide Pakistani establishment with a room to maneuver there is very little chance of reconciliation. In the worst case scenario, when Pakistan is about to break up due to internal issues it might use nuclear weapons against India like a suicide bomber.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    KARGIL– pl do not say that was a victory. 500 of our men died a very painful death, and we only managed to push them back across the border- that is no victory.
    They could do it again.
    Victory would have been if when they were in retreat, we had crossed the border and as Arun Shourie, the mild mannered man said, broken their jaw. So they think twice before doing something similar.
    Let me say something VERY PROVOCATIVE- I know internatiional law does not permit it, but why not completely stop their water on one of our dams for A SYMBOLIC 48 HOURS.

    Now that is what I would call a victory

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    post ‘atum bomb’ there will be no conventional big wars. There will be small intelligent skirmishes, where – HE WHO DARES WINS.
    And on Kargil, I say, Musharraf dared. I may hate him absolutely, but I will say the b%stard dared and mocked us.
    Yeh hisaab chukana hai. Hamein bhi koi intelligent low level skirmish karni hai, at the right time.
    Right now, we pin our small hopes on a small trial in US of Headley, which could fade away or could have a domino effect on ISI. The infamous mafioso Al Capone was bought down not by the seemingly minor lapse of not paying taxes- Federal agent Ness got him.
    Maybe a civil case filed by the dead American families in an obscure court in US may be the undoing of ISI.

    Iqbal who ? Lets hope American perseverance finds him

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    That would loose us a lot of goodwill we have on the world stage.

    Pakistan would overnight become a victim, rather than a terrorist state.

    Not a good idea.

    Go easy on the Ooozzzzoo

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Regarding Indus treaty, Indus has not violated it despite 3 wars started by Pakistan and numerous terrorist attacks.
    That speaks more about us as a nation state than any of the sordid, squalid anti-India propoganda from anywhere.

    Remember, all rivers flow from India into Pak.
    So all treaty obligations are on India.
    India assidously keeps its part of the bargain because we pride ourselves as a self-respecting , civilized nation. Well you may call us fools.

    However, Pak has no such illusions.
    What does Pak do ?

    Use the treaty to obstruct every hydel electricity project for 10, 15 , 20 years imposing heavy cost on India while accusing India every day of violating the treaty. Whenver Pak goes to neutral arbitrars appointed by World BANK, after delaying the project by 20 years, the ruling almost always comes in favour of India, sometimes with minor cosmetic changes.

    Pak is clear. The purpose of the treaty is to obstruct and delay every hydel project on indus basin.

    What India should do is re-negotiate the treaty, so that for every project on the Indus valley rivers, India goes directly to WB neutral arbitrars , to get the project approved , in accordance with the treaty.
    Right now, India has to first engage Pakistan for years , explaining and submitting our plans for pak approval , before it can go to the neutral arbitrars , if Pakistan is not satisfied.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    No country cares for international law when it suits their national interest, so we need not worry too much for that. Other countries will shout, involve into posturing but will calm down in a few days and life would be normal. India underestimates its position in the world and gets too nervous of how it is perceived in Western world.

    I agree with the suggestion but we must exploit this’ Water – Brahmastra’. However we must exercise it at an appropriate time. I believe we missed this opportunity during Kargil war. I believe given Pakistan’s obsession of indulging into misadventure against India, we must wait for a Kargil like situation and then exploit the option of controlling water to bring Pakistan to its knees.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I don’t think US will abandon pakistan soon without getting to the bottom of Osama-Pak affair.

    CIA to search bin Laden Pakistan compound: report
    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/26/cia-to-search-bin-laden-pakistan-compound-report.html

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Search for what ?
    It has been washed, painted and combed clean.
    These are just cosmetic antics that fool only themselves.

    If USA really wants to find out what ISI/pak army is doing, it should be interrogating

    1. Major IQBAL of Pak army ( USA will find that his chain of command led to Kayanai and Pasha , both from ISI )
    2. Hafeez Sheikh Muhammad ( UN branded terrorist )
    3. AQ Khan

    but pak would never allow that , instead you would see meaningless cosmetics.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @RAJIV, absolutely true, it is all hogwash.Also panditji so ill informed. kargil was a thumping victory.500 oro indian soldiers died , BUT ABOUT 1000 pakistanis died, left behind the bodies of northern infantry, because most them were balochis. PAKISTAN WAS MADE TO LOOK LIKE A JOKER.AND THE DRAMA OF MUSHARAFF REFUSED LANDING IN KARACHI, COUP DE TAT, BANNANA REPUBLIC REALLY.
    I dont pass opinion , i validate it with supporting evidences. i remember reading a book by Owen Jones called “Pakistan under seige”. It has the best description of bangladesh war. The greatest hero was Gen Jacob, a scion of a famous JEWISH family from calcutta. He ordered bombing of the place in dhaka where niazi was holding a meeting.Niazi started crying like a child according to a witness present in that meeting.
    next is Yahya khan. When the military went to contact him after the fall of dhaka , they were told “he cannot be disturbed, he is busy”. The army top brass in desperation forced open the door , they found NOORJAHAN giving b l o w j b to Yahya(yes you are reading it correct , WHITES USUALLY DO NOT WRITE PORKY)

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ Rajiv- was not aware that Pak had delayed our hydel projects by that long.
    I have been reading Pak newspapers for more than 10 years- this water obsession by them is new. Kashmir had long dominated the airways, but now Zaid Hamid and others harp on ‘India stealing our water’ and turning Pak into a desert.
    Atish Taseer in his book Stranger to history descibes a trip to Sindh where the mighty river has all but dried up. While this is a natural process, it is being portrayed to a whole generation in Pak that ‘India dunnit’.
    They do say that the next world war could well be fought on water. Seven billion and counting, the earth cannot cope with more people.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    @ ravi / Mahesh- yes we will lose goodwill if we dare, but I have noticed the world loves power. China and Russia get away with murder, as in Chechnya, Georgia, Tibet.

    What I had suggested was very provocative- after Kargil, we should have, openly, cut off their water for a symbolic 48 hours. To say, if you terrorise us, so can we- differently.
    He who dares ….

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Our yatch is moored outside a Taverna in Zakynthos, the hifi zone extends to our foredeck. And here I am, with my laptop right up near the anchor, ’stealing’ the internet. The taverna owner hates it- he would much rather I go to his tavern and blow some money there.

    It is very peaceful in the harbour, the lights , the waves- and I am blogging away my anger to Pakistan- atum bumb, PNS Mehran- seems a world away.
    Had a strange thought- I am a doctor, and yet passing my navigation test, calculating the tidal vector, learning sailing etc was hard work. And yet, a jaahil from Pakistani Punjab called Kasab learned all this in 18 months, sailed from Karachi to Mumbai and unleashed such mayhem.
    Hate them all we can, but our enemy is very dangerous. Shows the power of an idea….called jehad

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    sorry morbid thoughts

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Usman bhai, what a pleasant surprise, just read your comments. Come on down to this taverna, and you and I can solve it all over a glass of ouzo- smells of ’saunf’- fennell I THINK.

    The Greeks have it neat, I must confess I have to dilute it otherwise it burns your throat. But then I forget, you may not drink alcohol. Never mind, we can offer you juice. When we have finalised the Indo=Pak treaty, you and I, we will call it the Zakynthos Accord. Maybe there is a Nobel pece prize for us. After all, Obama got it for doing sweet f%k all.

    As you can tell, I have had a glass or two of ouzo. But seriously, to answer your question-

    1. My comment that maybe 1/3 of the pakistani awaam would be happy to see us vapourised is based on the comments I READ on your blogosphere.
    2. Is the feeling mutual- I think only when we are attacked a la Kasab. Otherwise I tell all Pakistanis- and I EMPHASISE THAT THEY SHOULD NOT GET US WRONG- most Indians do not give a toss about Pak. We look to Europe and US and hope to catch up with them.

    Hope that made sense. Come back more often Usman. Or fly to Zakynthos if you can

    Rajiv Reply:

    loved your description.
    I have taken two cruises , to Alaska and carribean.
    Alaskan cruise was the best, carribean average.

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Rajiv with an I-

    you write well and are knowledgable, and you are growing on me. I dont give compliments easily- but you have the Sardar Patel touch about you- over the last day you showed some leadership potential in tackling this ‘abuse’ problem.

    Did you know that the Nizam of Hyderabad who had unleashed his razakars on the hindus, was finally wrestled to the ground by Patel. And he had thid to say about Patel later- I used to despise this man, and fear him. But the way he was magnanimous in victory , I came to respect him !!

    As you have perhaps made out, I am slightly tipsy. btw, if you are in India, what are you doing up at 3 am?

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Mishraji,
    River Indus is dry in Sindh , because Pak has not built adequate dams and 60-80% of the water flows unused into Arabian sea following monsoon. Thats what all studies find that if Pak dammed the excess water during rainy season, then it could have water flow , all year.
    Its problem is poor water storage and management in Indus basin.

    In India, I remember that before Farakka dam was built, the hoogly/ganges would dry up in Bengal in summer/winter and we could walk accross it. Since Farakka dam was built and excess water during rainy season stored, the river flows all year long now.

    In pakistan, they have been talking about building the kalabagh dam ( KBD ) for years. They have state disputes about who would get how much water and they need usa or china or arabia to come and build the dam for them. Thats how pak operates.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    pakistan is failed state inevery field.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Mishra,
    thanks for the compliments. I am an arm-chair critic who spends too much time on the net. I am in usa. Yes leaders like Patel, we owe gratitude to them and also to those who fought for a secular, democratic state.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    this is panditji SMUG IGNORANT COW BELT, HIS LINES
    @ ravi / Mahesh- yes we will lose goodwill if we dare, but I have noticed the world loves power. China and Russia get away with murder, as in Chechnya, Georgia, Tibet.
    The reason Russia can show TWO FINGERS TO AMERICA is because it has TOPOLintercontinental missiles , which will turn america into a dust bowl like nevada. same with china , it has massive military hardware and ICBM.All indian military harware is IMPORTED.
    despite all this another 26/11 or if Indira priyadarshini was at the helm during 26/11,
    THEN PAKISTAN WOULD HAVE GOT A BLOODY NOSE,NUKES NOTWITHSTANDING. in fact Indian army has a OPERATIONAL DOCTRINE called COLD START, which envisages a conventional war under a nuclear umbrella.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    when you say Cow belt, do you realize what you are doing. Any way, what do you understand by cowbelt?
    Donot go off the handle, let me know, what is this Cowbelt.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    :) He means USA midwest..may be.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Shan,
    While I agree with you on Indira Gandhi’s guts – please try to keep your discourse civil . You are a little on the abusive side with Dr. Mishra though you both are saying the same things.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @shan,
    we have all agreed about no personal abuse. So please help us all. Please state your strong opinions without insulting the person and we all will learn something new from your perspective. None of us agree 100% with each other. In fact , i dont agree 100 pct with myself from one day to next.

    Anyway regarding Kargil, I will give my opinion today or tomorrow. The goal of every country is I guess is to operate within the constrains, capabilities and resources it has to achive the optimum outcome. Obviously, USA would respond to the same provocation in a different way than India, because of constraints, capabilities and resources.

    My opinion is that , India more or less, achived the optimum outcome in Kargil, given the constraints. No one has to agree with me. I will elaborate more later.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Mr. Rajiv

    I agree with you. India could achieve maximum after Kargil war. See the miserable plight of Pakistan , especially of its army which could not honour even its own armymen killed in the operation. These poor could not get even a decent burial. May be it was the finest hour for both Indian defence forces as well as for Indian diplomacy after 1971 war.
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv and Dr Anand

    You are right that India did achieve a lot after the Kargil encounter.

    Pakistan was floundering democracy before that. Immediately it became a military state. Its terrorist face came out in the open and slowely its master, the US,became is enemy…

    Good that we did not have a COngress govenrnment in that period. They would have started shedding crocodile tears saying, “we brothers of the third world should stick together against the US in this hour of your need…”

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Dr Anand Sir, Kargil was a fine meal without the pudding. The pudding would have been as Mishraji said, to cross the border and deliver a strong punch.
    Or as Mishraji says, the credit for first saying that goes to ARUN SHOURIE who in his quiet way is quite an iron man.

    Doc saheb, pudding ke bina khana adhura rah gaya. Osama ki tarah if we get Dawood then khaane mein phir se swaad aa jayega. This sardar waits for THAT FINAL PUDDING. What do u say

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    @ Balwinder Sandhu

    Ye s sir, I agree with you. The meal is never complete unless followed by the dessert.Look in this case, the meals were still enjoyable even without dessert served. The outcome of Kargil was surely a complete and satisfying meal.
    BNA

  • jai vaidya

    Vijay,
    The Headley trial will not bring any benefits to India as yet. America will use this trial and it’s accwss to Osama Bin Laden’s computers to hang Damcales sword over Pakistani army/ISI. We have to understand that America acts in it’s own supreme self interest. Why the hell should it care about India?The American game plan is isi safe exit out of Afghanistan. They are going to retreat to the hills shouting victory at the same time. And what mess they are going to leave for us; a weak Afghanistan and a twenty billion dollar rich Pakistan on steroids. Afghanistan and Pakistan are in our backyard. We have to deal with them, and not wish the Americans to come to our aid. Donald Rumsfeld famously said,”We have to fight a war with the army we have, not the army we wish we had.”
    The real action in Afghanistan will start once the Americans leave. We have strong assets in Afghanistan We have to concentrate on supporting them Our soon to be defunct MIG fighters should be given to Afghanistan on very easy terms to create a semblance of an Afghani air force.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Finally somebody spoke sense. India has to fight its own battle. I don’t know why we keep behaving like a small country.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Again agree with you Rajeev. No gain without pain.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Jai and Rajeev

    Of course India has to fight its own battles. But then we have t use coericve and imaginative diplomacy for achieving our ends.

    When I said using the US i actually meant it. The US did not give a damn when it created an army of vile jehadis and left them in our backyard. Pakistanis loved i since they got free cannon fodder to attack Indians.

    At that point our diplomacy was at a dead end. Then Jaswant SIngh came in and started viewing the world differently that Isreal and US could be used to limit the damage. His engagment with Strobe Talbott is a changing point in our history.

    In the end we have to live with this vile neighbour which kills our citizens and wants to ignite religious hatred in India. So even when we make our forces strong, we still could do a lot thru diplomacy to turn the tables on the Jehadis.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    Personally, I do not think the USA will exit very soon from Afghanistan. They still have to eliminate many other militants / terrorists. Just getting Osama is not enough. It is still a very long haul.

    Whether they leave behind a mess is yet to seen. They would like to leave behind a system and infrastructure that does not threaten the world (USA and Europe in particular).

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    I think in rational terms you may be correct.

    But taking domestic politics in USA into account, bringing the boys home, will help Obama raise his profile.

    Soon TV will be showing aircraft landing, homecoming shots of soldiers and their families.

    Obama will be seen as a hero who got OBL.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Shenoy Sahab;
    kahan ho aap, bacche khel rahen hain Aap ke bagair.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    Pakistanis keep breastbeating over Osama
    Americans keep backslapping Obama
    Pakistan army is in deep coma
    But we Indians celebrate Mamatamaa
    and Jaya Ammaa

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Just be careful. Using the word ‘breastbeating’ me remind Vinodji of Gilani and that may get you a reprimand… :D

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Vijay, I could be wrong byt guys who admire and paw women- like Gilani- cannot really be interested in war. India should fund Gilani and Zardari ’s reelections.
    Maybe bollywood should organise a mujra every day In Pakistan- Munni badnaam hui- give the beards a different angle on life, virgins here and now, not later/.

    Shenoy saab, a poem please- on- A munni in hand is worth…

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Balwinder

    Maybe you have a viewpoint. But then Osama was also pawing five wives together and needed herbal viagra to sustain himself :D

    However at another level I keep wondering why and how Pakistan keeps producing Kasabs while youth in India is more into Net, films and cricket or career building. Maybe it has to do with the education. For example Romulus who was kidnapped by wolves and grew up as one, behaved like a wolf even when he was rescued at the age of twenty.

    However in case the youth of Pakistan discoverd he pleasures of dating and beer, I am sure becoming suicde bombers would become a stupi joke ! :D

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    The Pakistani wolves like Geelani are so sex hungry that they paw ladies in public.
    Perhaps, in the privacy of their bedrooms, they think of only terror and 26/11.

    I agree with Balwinderji that we should doa different kind of funding, so that these wolves can keep their paws busy. We should also arrange for free supply of BOOST for more power to their paws.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Great, thanks shenoy sahab.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    doc pankaj, please do not exercise yourself over SHRILL SHAN- there is a pattern here- mishraji throws in some brilliant lines, everyone from Usman, rajiv, you, Kushagra etc start praising him and debating him- SHRILL SHAN gets jealous, mouths off some petty insults. Ignore him.

    Did anyone read Chota Rajan’s interview- he has been gunning for Dawood himself, says the man does not live in Pak anymore. Sez a segment of ISI protects him everywhere abroad. I am stunned that no one has sold him to the yanks- maybe the bounty on his head needs to be increased- remember Saddam was found cos of a greedy informant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan

    OSama too was probably found because of a greedy informant. What is your guess on who claimed the 25 million USD in the Pakistani establishment…. ?

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    and agree with Rajiv with an I- hahaha, what a desription- loved reading mishraji’s troubled thoughts in the harbour. Sailing is just starting off in India

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Vijay kumar- lovely take- “”"Then Jaswant SIngh came in and started viewing the world differently that Isreal and US could be used to limit the damage. His engagment with Strobe Talbott is a changing point in our history”"”

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Rajiv with an I- what a lovely name Mishraji has given you-
    I learned from your post- “”"@Mishraji,
    River Indus is dry in Sindh , because Pak has not built adequate dams and 60-80% of the water flows unused into Arabian sea following monsoon. Thats what all studies find that if Pak dammed the excess water during rainy season, then it could have water flow , all year.
    Its problem is poor water storage and management in Indus basin.”"”

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Mishraji please you drink everyday, you seem to be a different person. More spunk.
    You may have said the most original thing said on this blog so far- “”"What I had suggested was very provocative- after Kargil, we should have, openly, cut off their water for a symbolic 48 hours. To say, if you terrorise us, so can we- differently.
    He who dares ….”"”

    doc saheb, I am flying down to Zakynthos whatever, this talk will now continue on your yatch
    hehe

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    shan babu- loved your lines – you were brilliant when you said this-
    “”" ………………….. duh ……………….duh………………”"”

    [Reply]

  • Manohar_T

    No more navel-gazing by Murtaza Razvi on May 26th, 2011
    —————————————————————————-

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/26/no-more-navel-gazing.html

    Excerpt

    You cannot be booked for drinking and driving because in this Islamic republic, Muslims are not supposed to be drinking and thus no law exists to deal with that dangerous crime which can kill people, but you can be booked for drinking even though you may not harm anyone by doing so. These are mighty anomalies that defy all decent norms, disorient and stunt an entire society. But the state has no time or will to start setting things right. Instead, it gets into other areas where it should not be.

    —————-

    Full article

    After the attack by militants on the Mehran naval base in Karachi, and the horror of the siege and the casualties sustained there, with two militants making their escape after all was said and done, it is becoming harder to simply trash global concerns about the security of Pakistan’s military assets.

    Hillary Clinton on her recent visit to Britain has again reiterated America’s and the world’s willingness to help Pakistan help itself and make the hard decisions that call for eliminating the threat posed by religious extremism.

    The reported decision by the army high command that henceforth jihadist preachers would not be allowed to enter cantonment mosques, if true, is a step in the right direction. But it begs the other more relevant question: why are such preachers allowed to carry on their hate spreading activities amongst the civilian population? The need is to ban hateful preaching everywhere, including the electronic media which beams right into our living rooms.

    The armed forces have also reportedly decided to not allow anymore serving soldiers and officers the special leaves that many were allegedly taking to embark on preaching missions, with some of them wandering off under the pretext to impart military training to whosoever wished to get trained. If true, then it is these very prodigal sons who have now come home to roost. That such leaves were allegedly sanctioned and condoned ill, becomes a professional institution such as the armed forces.

    Public show of religiosity and personal piety somehow shall have to be taken out of the professional and public spheres of life to contain this homegrown monster of terrorism which has turned on its own people. In doing so, scholarship needs to be distinguished from inciting and training civilians for waging wars against infidels and ordinary Muslims alike that the fanatics have been targeting. The examples to follow are right there in many Muslim countries that do not allow such anti-people and anti-state activities on their soils; it makes those countries not any less Muslim than we are.

    Luckily the average Pakistani remains a moderate and a private citizen in his interaction with spiritual matters, which is exactly the kind of universe we need to strengthen in order to preserve whatever little sanity is left in our collective lives.

    There are degrees of state-condoned religiosity in the public sphere, which range from harmlessly broadcasting prayer calls and Ramazan timings to the more sinister practice by the Ziaul Haq regime in the past to flogging citizens in public after summary military trials, all in the name of Islam.

    The Taliban enforced the same system in Afghanistan and later in Swat. Their ouster through sheer force, which is the only language they understand, has met with much public approval. But the police remain their sidekicks of sorts and as the state institution they enforce moral policing rather than concerning themselves with law enforcement of the non-religious kind that evades our cities.

    We live in a country where in the police books it is a crime for a young man and a woman to go walking on the beach unless the two are married. Cops still demand to see your marriage certificate, hoping only to be rewarded for demanding it.

    You cannot be booked for drinking and driving because in this Islamic republic, Muslims are not supposed to be drinking and thus no law exists to deal with that dangerous crime which can kill people, but you can be booked for drinking even though you may not harm anyone by doing so. These are mighty anomalies that defy all decent norms, disorient and stunt an entire society. But the state has no time or will to start setting things right. Instead, it gets into other areas where it should not be.

    For instance, the state should get out of the business of even sighting moons and giving mullahs of varying hues the opportunity on such occasions to hold forth on public television and make lengthy announcements with their recommendations on how to live life as a pious, God-fearing Muslim. They have no business telling the people how pious they are and thus have the right to tell others to follow them.

    The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government’s stance on the issue is very clear: let the people start fasting or feasting as and when they please, according to the mosque that they wish to follow in such matters. The farce of celebrating Eid on the one and the same day across the country has remained just that, year after year. The skies don’t come crashing down when people in Peshawar celebrate Eid a day before the majority of Pakistanis do elsewhere.

    It is time to stop navel-gazing and wake up to face the crushing challenges that we have thrown at ourselves. Terrorism must be stopped and religion must not be abused. Islam was certainly in safer hands in Pakistan in the 1960s than it is today. It must be wrested back to that safety.

    —The writer is an editor with Dawn

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Shan beta, you criticise doc mishra, but then say nothing significant. But you know what SHRILL SHAN, I LOVE YOU. There I said it, I cant live with out you.

    Cant live without your gems that you post, your lovely writing style- “”"The army top brass in desperation forced open the door , they found NOORJAHAN giving b l o w j b to Yahya(yes you are reading it correct , WHITES USUALLY DO NOT WRITE PORKY)”"”

    SHAN dear, this blog would be ‘neeras’ without you, you make my day, hope u dont mind me spanking your rationalist humanist botty a little , do you

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Balls sandhu, he he , keeps falling due to cerebellar atrophy from chronic alcoholism
    I am aware READING BOOKS is not something you are accustomed to. Perhaps can get your granthi to read and translate for you , the book is PAKISTAN , THE EYE OF THE STORM
    by OWEN BENNET JONES. I do not have the book right with me , but knowing indians NRI or RI their only pasttime is pakistan bashing, i will definitely have the chance to requote with exact page number.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    my comment is not on your quoting these facts- it is the relevance of these facts, and the salacious pleasure you get in quoting something that titillates you and is totally irrelevant to this blog

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Balderdash sandhu, It is far more relevant than your pandit puja , no wonder rajeev reminded you , this is not chai ka dukan.
    The context is ,( if one can get through your rather thick filbut, ) THE STATE OF THE PAK ARMY LEADERSHIP. and pak army is the single biggest or perhaps the only impediment to rapproachment

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Usman

    You would have noticed that very few bloggers– maybe none– wants India to engage with Pakistan on as is where is basis. Everyone just feels that when Pakistan is just interested in damaging us, our countrymen and our children, why should we engag with it.

    However if… if Pakistan were to take some unilateral action. Like

    a) Handing over Dawood Ibrahim, Masood Azhar or Hafeez saeed, then tings will change dramatically. Just prove to Indians that the Pakistanis mean business

    b) It may not be possible to hand over these criminals as there is danger that these guys will just spill the truth on the Pakistani army and ISI assosciation with them

    c) In such a scenario just for the first step, Pakistanis can kill one of these guys and display his body to all to prove thier sincerity for Indo Pak friendship.

    In a nutshell, Pakistan has to prove that it is willing to eliminate people who are / have killed innocents in India.

    Hope things work out

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    LOVELY QUESTION BY uSMAN Chowdhury from Pakistan to Dr Mishra-

    doc- “………the cancer of hatred is deep down in their awam…….”

    Usman- Vow!! sorry to make you feel like that but seriously is the feeling mutual?
    ———–
    Is the feeling mutua;l?? honest answers please, would we also not like to vapourise Pakistan awaaam
    HONEST ANSWERS PLEASE

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Kushagra- well siad- “”"No country cares for international law when it suits their national interest, so we need not worry too much for that.
    I agree with the suggestion but we must exploit this’ Water – Brahmastra’”"”

    [Reply]

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    Thank You Mr Balwinder,

    May be India is eyeing to get a permanent seat in UN Security Counsel or competition against China to grow both militarily or economically! the race has led India to develop nuclear capabilities much before Pakistan. Ours program was a defensive one.

    On a serious note:-
    What was running through India’s mind when repeat nuclear tests were conducted in 1998??
    This was seen as aggression on my side.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Usman

    India had already conducted a “peaceful” nuclear test in 1974. Further on we were not exactly on the best terms with China which was openly nuclear.

    On the western front Dr Khan’s network and tricks were known to all. So at that time Vajpayee and his government decided that it is in the best interests of zINdia to come out of the closet.

    [Reply]

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    What exactly were the tricks and motive behind? Please enlighten us.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Usman

    Here is what made India come out of the closet

    a) Z A Bhutto had time and again talked about a thousand years war with India

    b) He had said that Pakistan will develop a nuclear bomb, even if it has to eat grass

    c) Dr A Q Khan had stolen nuclear plans and secrets from Holland and the Americans had turned a blind eye as it needed Pakistan for a war on the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    d) Gen Zia had used this afghan model for diverting financial, weaponary and moral support to Khalistani terrorists in Punjab. A model replicated by Benazir in Kashmir in 1988

    e) A term — the Islamic bomb– had been created to rope in Libya and Iran in the bomb project.

    f) In India’s eyes, Pakistan already had the bomb or at least the potential to create a nuclear terror

    Inida was also now getting in the big league. SO it was imperitve that we had to take corrective

    [Reply]

    usman chaudhry Reply:

    “Inida was also now getting in the big league. SO it was imperitve that we had to take corrective ”

    ????!@#$%

    That was corrective action? – Are you implying that repeat tests was the dying need to send a strong message? “Here I come!!” – Please clarify

    Dr A.Q Khan:- For national interest do we have a defined global policy?
    - Dr A.Q Khan was a nuclear physicts and a scientist already working for Dutch, why would he have to steal some plans when he has built in capabilities for enriching uranium.

    - By the way, buying cliche “peaceful nuclear tests” doesn’t make sense. Nuclear tests are never taken as for peaceful purpose.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Usman

    You may be right that a peaceful nuclear test is an oxymoron.

    But look closely. If a country keeps saying that we would use our nukes at the drop of a hat… well it is not a peacefull country, In Pakistan’s case there is full danger of these nukes falling into the hands of LeT or Queeda. The trouble is Pakistan breeds them.

    Dr A Q Khan was willing to sell this technology to anyone from Somalia to libya as long as he got money. he may be a hero in Pakistan but probably the most dangerous man for the existence of this planet.

    It would be sad that Pakistan becomes responsible for mass destruction of the world and contamination of the only earth we have…

    Kushagra Reply:

    @ Usman – What is more peaceful message – No first use nuclear policy

    Or your country’s message non-committal on No first nunclear use on India?

    Which out of the two is more threatening?

    shan Reply:

    @Usman Mia, that was typical pakistani/islamic approach . Emotion and josh overrides RATIONALITY.This has been and is the story of ISLAM.Now this emotion or josh stood them in good stead , when that was all you needed to conquer lands. After certain Mr Newton and Renaissance , THE WORLD HAS CHANGED. Emotion deosn’t play any role RATIONALITY RULES THE LIVES OF ADVANCED(read west plus india) COUNTRIES.
    india or rather BJP’s reasoning for exploding the bomb WAS TO BRING PAKISTAN OUT OF THE NUCLEAR CLOSET AND TEACH AMERICA OR EXPOSE AMERICA’S WILLFUL TOLERANCE OF NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION BY PAKISTAN.
    Pakistan as expected fell into the trap. If pakistan didnot explode ,IT WOULD HAVE GOT MASSIVE GOODWILL AND ALL KIND OF SUPPORT FROM WEST(that is all that matters in this world) AND INDIA WAS BEING REVILED ,FOR SLAPPING ON THE FACE OF END OF COLD WAR PEACE DIVIDEND.
    Then that is pakistan for you.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @usman mia, A Q KHAN was convicted by DUTCH COURT(yes dutch court not indian court)
    read it for yourself
    The Amsterdam court, which sentenced the father of Pakistan’s nuclear programme Abdul Qadeer Khan to four years in prison in 1983, has lost Khan’s legal files and the court’s vice-president suspects the CIA had a hand in the documents’ disappearance.”Something is not right, we just don’t lose things like that,” judge Anita Leeser told Dutch news show NOVA late yesterday.”I find it bewildering that people lose files with a political goal, especially if it is on request of the CIA. It is unheard of,” she added.”~snip~ In 1983 he was sentenced in absentia, by judge Leeser, to four years in prison for stealing nuclear secrets about uranium enrichment. On appeal the verdict was quashed because of procedural errors and the Dutch government did not pursue the matter any further.A month ago former Dutch prime minister Ruud Lubbers said Khan was let go at the request of US intelligence services.Leeser said that when she heard Lubbers, the disappearance of Khan’s files at the Amsterdam court’s archive fell into place for her.”This has been brewing in the dutch media for about a month ever since Leeser,the retiring vice-president of the court for the district Amsterdam went on dutch tv to make this unprecendented statement.Just to spell out how sensational this is,the ex prime minister of the netherlands and the vice president of the court that convicted A.Q. Khan confirm on tv that the dutch judicial system can be subverted by the intelligence agency of a foreign government without consequence.this fits in with my contention that much of Europe has been US occupied territory since the end of WWII.it also looks like the dutch were used (willingly) to transfer nuclear tech. to pakistan with plausible deniability for the USA.
    http://www.rigorousintuition.ca

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    You are in the US. In the little time I have spent there, I discovered that the Americans love to believe themselves to be blundering Rambos. Now with this Headley thing, it will be proved that LeT was behind the death of 6 American citizens in 26/11.

    Can this lead to a extradition of Hafeez Saeed to Gauntamano or maybe a drone attack on the LeT headquarters ???

    Obviously they wont do it for India. But for their own American citizens…

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    No chance what so ever of US taking any serious action against LeT. The daood gilani /T Hussain trial is being followed by official America, not the public. The public however looks at abottabad and has concluded pak sheltered Osama. Its army presence in afghanistan that has usa paralyzed into inaction against LeT.

    [Reply]

  • usman chaudhry

    Hello Dr Mishra,

    Enjoying summer cruise i suppose, unlike hot (40+ C) over here in Pakistan. Yes, I dont drink alcohol because of personal reasons but would love to have juice.

    Sir, ours Indo-Pak issues are very serious issues and the sensitivity is marginally amplified when both posses nuclear capabilities. Ranging from territorial disputes to intelligence games, fighting over water and wars (of 65, 71, 99) and above all the deep rooted separation of 1947 it has left countless scars on our faces. On my side where huge population is under the weight of poverty, hunger, unemployment and insecurity things dont look good in near future. But i have high hopes and wish for normalcy to return.

    Like you mentioned about 1/3 of our population; quite frankly back in 1974, 1998 the atomic experiments conducted out by India give the same impression to us. Dont know if you were eyeing to gain some strategic and defense milestones but the truth is we had to be prepared for anything.
    Surely would keep on returning but somewhat personal and official commitments make it difficult for me to keep track of every post but i do read some of it against few names.

    Regards,
    Usman

    [Reply]

  • usman chaudhry

    Tajender,

    What exactly is Brahminism? What is the underlying agenda?
    Please enlighten me.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    please Usman bhai, just ignore tajender aka ramavtar aka pakistani-hiding under hindu name. He is harmless, but as Dr Pankaj said above, suffers from zionitis in morning and brahminitis in evening.
    No difference between him and SHAN- both went to the same school- where they are taught TO TALK, BUT NOT SAY ANYTHING MEANINGFUL. hehe

    Only difference is tajender dropped out after class 4 – as his English testifies- and SHAN stayed an till class 12- so his English is lots better. Lot of ppl say SHAN is total anpadh- but that is not true. I love SHAN- and say he is 12th pass.
    Ashish on the last blog used to say that SHAN is unemployed on benefits and I used to get very upset- ‘Please, why u abuse shan, he has a proper job- he is toilet cleaner at best private school in UK- for GIRLS- Shan spends all his time in there drilling holes in walls…

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    hehe

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Sandhu and his biradri DOES KABUTARBAJI, for which they are famous.
    in case you didn’t know what kabutar baji is, this is smuggling people into Uk at the back of a lorry under a heap of vegetables through Dover, coming under the false pretext of attending marriage and then vanishing in black economy, FAKE MARRIAGE, enrollment in FAKE COLLEGE, thus entering uk through student visa, then vanishing into illegal immigrant market,sometime coming as granthi and vanishing, posing as khalistani and asking for refuge , coming for homeopathy conference (which is held on top of a restaurant)
    THE LIST IS ENDLESS AND 40% OF SIKHS HAVE ENTERED UK BY THIS ROUTE.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    shan, not funny, try again. On second thoughts- dont- your sense of humour is desperate

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @Usman,
    I have seen not just you, but pakstan media, oficial pakistan, wants to use two words in every discusion. One m not much used by you, is Islamic ( understandable ) and the other , pretty often used by you, is “nuclear”.
    Pakistan never tires of mentioning that it now has the “atom bumb”.
    So ?
    Have you seen India or Indians harp on their nuclear weapons ? India does not even want to talk about it. They are defensive weapons for India, never meant to be first used ( thats official policy ) and we do not like talking about nuclear war.

    But for pakistan, every conflict, is a potential nuclear war. In fact, its your nuclear weapons that is making you guys to terrible things like Kargil incursion, supporting terrorist groups like LeT under a nuclear umbrella assuming your threats of nuclear war will prevent India from attacking.
    Nuclear weapons were suppose to make you more confident and less paranoid about India, so that you can concentrate on your development. Instead , it have had the opposite effect and made your army/isi/state/guys more reckless.
    Are you guys totally insane ?
    Or is the entire country a big mental institution ?

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    Tajender- this is a fiercely vulgar statement which is deeply insulting To Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and his family, and the family of all the dead ones.
    VINOD JI
    VINOD JI
    VINOD JI

    PLEASE BAN TAJENDER

    ban via email, via IP address

    This is disgusting gloating on a terrorist attack. In UK, this is an offence.
    Anyone disagree with the ban ??

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Balwinder,
    Let him shout. The more he opens his mouth, the more he degrades himself. Give him a big rope and he is doing a good job of hanging himself.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Balwinder Sandhu
    I have just instructed that Tajender be blocked out of this site. I have never done this before but then there’s always a beginning. I can’t afford to lose better debators on this blog and feel that this guy is really offensive.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinod Sharma Ji

    Oh Vinod if Tajendar goes, can Ravi be far behind?

    I’d spare you the bother.

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @Vinodji

    Banning anything or anyone has never worked and is totally uncalled for.

    If and when there are warning signs, he/she should be warned and then keep deleting (if need be) offensive posts/comments.

    Having done that as owner/moderator of the blog, one only hopes that you would adopt an even handed approach and ban other foul mouthed and uncivilised posters, after due warning, as of from now.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    This is really surprising. you are comparing Tajender with any other person? have you forgotten his posts of Mather and Behan apart from routine Fu..ing of british girls. I hope congressi in you has not been kick started by this ban and now you are trying to do, what diggi would have done exactly.

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @Pankaj#1

    I am not surprised you did not understand what I am saying. Let me try and explain again. It was not about Tejender or anyone in particular, but about individual posts.

    I am also not surprised that you go on to bring in politics, typical of Hindutva trolls to slot anyone who does not share your world view as a Congress sympathiser./ supporter.

    It is a pity that you are not aware of category of persons who can be have views independent of any ideology.

    .

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    I understood very well. It is timing I am suspecting. The moment this foul mouthed person is banned, you felt the pain and demand banning for others. This timing is, what I am highlighting. You should feel proud to the mention of diggy, are you feeling belittled by taking your name with diggi?

  • Rajiv

    I sometimes even have a good laugh at his insane rantings and wonder at how his mind works and all the stuff he believes in. That helps me understand Pakistan better.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This blog has turned into a joke courtesy clueless Balwinder & his chamche and omnipresent Ravi-Tajender.

    I think non-serious debaters like Balwinder should stick to some other blogs. These kind of topics are not for him.

    Tajender although insane makes far better points than Balwinder. Ravi is a flip-flopper…Kabhi Ram ko gaali bakega, hinduon ka mazzak udayega…Islam ke liye cheekhne chillaney lagega aur phir fake secularism dikhayega…

    Then we have god of this blog Vinodji, who keeps straying from true intention of this blog…i.e. discuss Indo-pak relation but he has been using this as congressi propaganda machine, talking about BJP, Karnataka, Bhushan CDs etc. If he wants to discuss his political inclination, he should create another blog other than “separated at birth” and post his political philosophy and bias there…Jab uncle ka yeh haal hai…to bachche kya karenge..

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    I’ll tell you how Tajendra s mind works since he is not going to be nere anymore.

    I’ll go bacl too the Punjab of early eighties where I travelled around as a schoolboy. It was a peacefull and prosperous area, though a bit conservatrive as compared to Delhi where my dad had been posted ealrier.

    In neighbourhood Pakistan, Gen Zia had siezed power while Soviets had entered Afghanistan, forced by the deposition of the ruler by Hafizullah Amin. The Americans were funding the mujahideen and the sly general was using the same technique of using religion to divide Hindus and Sikhs,

    There were elements of NRI Sikhs who were suddenly enamoured by the Khalistan movement.

    And I as a member oif the school cricket team wchich consisited of ten Sikhs and me the lone Hindu suddenly found that barriers were being erected in society yet did not exist amongst us friends.

    Tajendra confessed that he was a Muslims with a name — Mutandar hussain turad. yet he used the garb of a Sikh to play the game Pakistanis played then of trying to create a divide.

    Actually my belief is the barriers between Muslims and Hindus need to be broken. But Tajendra was trying to create hatred…

    moe later. As I have to dive now… :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    Tajendra confessed that he was a Muslims with a name

    anything wrong to be muslims.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    NOthing wrong with being a Muslim. But why did you change ur religion for the blog and then said obnoxious things about HIndus to make it look that a Sikh said this ?

    I think you should come here with a Muslim identity and try to break the barriers between Indians. But then sad to say you are an off shoot of the evil Cobra Gen Zia … and probably brainwashed to become a suicide bomber… :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    this is the whole crux of the matter. you have put it absolutely clearly why Tajender is hated here.

    Well done and long overdue plain speaking.

  • Rajiv

    I have mixed feelings about banning pakinder.

    The Good : He will not fill up the blog , tempt people into retaliation and distract discussion. A precedent has been set that extreme disruption can lead to banning. Hopefuly we will never need it again.

    The bad : Just read his writings. I cannot just stop laughing. I have read Pak media for 20 years and the right-wing part of the pak media ( not Dawn or Tribune , but The Nation, jung and I am told the urdu media ) paints a picture of India and Indian history very close to what pakinder had to say. His comments were thus a insight into the right-wing, jihadi part of pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Rajiv,
    Vinod has to set a example himself. He has used this blog not to discuss pakistan but to post his pro-congress propaganda. If he is behaving in such as way, can we ask Tajender to stop posting his propaganda or can we ask Ravi to stop faking or can we ask Balwinder to stop making lame jokes?
    Almost everyone including you and me get strayed because there is absolutely no discipline while debating.
    Let us just discuss indo-pak relations rather than Punjabi Vs Bengali, Yeddy, BJP, Kandahar, Modi.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    you can do your part by trying to not get distracted and reduce personal side wars.
    None of us are perfect here. We all come with our personal biases and opinions. I dont have a problem with Balwinder or Ravi. Everyone’s style is different. Obviously I dont agree 100% with anyone. Regarding Mr Sharma, this blog is just a meeting place for people who follow Indo-Pak affairs to discuss issues. It wont surprise me if less than 10% of posters read what Mr Sharma has to say in his opening piece.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We all are sinners no doubt but Jesus Christ of this blog (vinod) should be without sin. Why does he use this blog to post his pro-congress propaganda? We are yet to see him apologize for his involvement in Shanti bhushan Fake CD affair.

    Har SHakh pe ullu baitha hai
    aise gulistan ka kya hogaa

    (disclaimer: not a fan of poetry. If I have made a mistake, please correct).

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    The way I see it, if Mr Sharma propogates his pro-Congress agenda here, we all are free to counter him and post our opinion. That makes it even in some way.

    Rajeev Reply:

    But this forum “SEPARATED AT BIRTH” is exclusively for discussing indo-pak affair..

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    @ Rajeev;
    I agree with Rajiv. If you put your thoughts without resorting to invectives, they will carry more weight.
    Sher is like this: Bus Ek hi Ullu Kafi hai, Barbad Gulistan Karne ko.
    Har Shaakh pe Ullu baithain hain, Anjam e Gulistan kya hoga.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pankaj,
    Thanks..I have to use my acid tongue for some people who turn every debate into Chai Dukaan kind of debate.
    But I take your suggestion.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Oye Fake Tajendar, real mootandar is that you coming out of the WC ? :D

    I thought you had been flushed….

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,

    “It wont surprise me if less than 10% of posters read what Mr Sharma has to say in his opening piece”

    that is unfair. Surely, it is more than 10%.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Coming Back to topic. US has given clean chit to pakistani top leadership on Osama. Nice one…It confirms the suspicion that Pakistan was fully aware of OBL operation and must have got huge sum of money to co-operate, accept humiliation and keep quiet.
    Well done pakistan…you deserve academy award for best acting.

    [Reply]

  • Balwinder Sandhu

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart Vinod ji. Tajender did these vile postings once too often.

    Rajeev, I am serious for a change. Not sure if I want to respond to your rantings now, or ever. We will see.

    Rajiv with an I- buddy you make a good kotwal. Please do post more often and do debate with Mishraji, Usman, Doc Pankaj, Vijay Kr, Shenoy, Mirchandani, Jai Vaidya, Manohar, Hegde, Raju Kurien, Shoeb, Syed bhai etc

    We all come here for the article and the for the comments which are superlative.

    [Reply]

    Balwinder Sandhu Reply:

    sample this example of good writing and incisive thoughts-

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    May 27th, 2011 at 2:45 am

    Our yatch is moored outside a Taverna in Zakynthos, the hifi zone extends to our foredeck. And here I am, with my laptop right up near the anchor, ’stealing’ the internet. The taverna owner hates it- he would much rather I go to his tavern and blow some money there.

    It is very peaceful in the harbour, the lights , the waves- and I am blogging away my anger to Pakistan- atum bumb, PNS Mehran- seems a world away.
    Had a strange thought- I am a doctor, and yet passing my navigation test, calculating the tidal vector, learning sailing etc was hard work. And yet, a jaahil from Pakistani Punjab called Kasab learned all this in 18 months, sailed from Karachi to Mumbai and unleashed such mayhem.
    Hate them all we can, but our enemy is very dangerous. Shows the power of an idea….called jehad

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Total Bakwaas…A showoff…who care if he has a yatch or dingy, whether he is doctor or nurse, whether is is sipping liquor or narial paani….Totally not in sync with the topic.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwinder with W,
    Stick to the topic from now on…Your stupid jokes/ranting is not welcome anymore. And stop going after Shan…His contribution to this forum has been far more and better than you and your chamcha brigade.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Forget about hindus-sikhs, this is how pakistan treats Shia muslims-
    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/27/forced-out-of-quetta-by-ethnic-violence.html

    Can Pakinder tell us how brahminism is responsible for this?

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Rajeev,
    I tend to beleive that Pak army/ISI really did not know where Osama was.
    Nor do I think they were actively looking for him and if they found him they would have used him as a bargaining chip in some way.
    The bigger and revealing question about Osama is , why did Osama hide in Pakistan and not in Afganistan, Iran, Tajikistan etc ?
    The answer is that Pak government has created a most hospitable place for jihadists from all over the world in Pakistan. The only militant groups Pak fights are those that attack Pak army – that is Tehrilk-e-taleban pakistan.
    The rest, are all guests of the Islamic republic. Those groups that attack India, Let, JeM are not just guests but esteemed asets of the state.
    One reason that I have read in Pak media from abbotabad about why Pak army/isi did not pay notice to the Osama compund in Abbotabad is because it was known locally as a Herket-ul-Mujahideen compund. HuM targets Indian forces so the compound was sacred territory as far as pak army/isi was concerned.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I beg to differ on this because-
    1. It is modus operandi in pakistan to insulate top Pakistani Generals/ISI chief from these kind shady dealings. ISI used a low level ISI major to do 26/11.
    2. Why did Osama choose to live next to military academy? Did he feel safe staying near to military academy?
    3. I did not see any great shock in pakistan over OBL presence in their country. The shock was more due to brazen American operation.

    I think, top generals chose not to get informed about day-2-day OBL whereabouts but they were broadly aware that SOME low level officers were taking care of Osama SOMEWHERE in pakistan. They basically chose to be ignorant about OBL’s presence.

    However at a lower level (also among ex-ISI men), there was some kind of protection provided to Osama and that is why he felt safe in cantt, town, among his protectors.

    US is trying to ease of pakistan from embarrassment and this statement from Clinton is in that direction. US is totally dependent on pakistan for supply routes to Afghainstan. In short term, US will tolerate pakistan’s double dealing so that it can keep supply lines open but in long term US will definitely do something about pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    What you say could be true.

    Regarding 26/11, based on evidense presented at Chicago, I have strong feeling that the attack was known to Pasha and Kayani. Major Iqbal of the Pak army/ISI handled Daood Gilani over many years. Safe ISI houses ner the airport were used for training. Major Iqbal, gave Daood 25000$ for the operation. I dont think the ISI officer gave 25000$ from his retirement fund. Its not peanuts. That kind of money can come only from ISI/State funding. Also, this was one of the biggest attacks on India ever. ISI leadership, all the way to the top was informed about it.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    “attack was known to Pasha and Kayani. ”

    But I am sure they were not aware of nitty gritty of operation.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Sure they dont need to.
    And now both of them ( kayani-pasha ) and their civilian government ( zardari-gilani ) and that self-evident thug the pak interior minister are involved in protecting all pak isi/army officers like major Iqbal from getting caught and exposed.

    Major Iqbal’s service record in the pak army/isi would have been wiped clean under orders from the top.
    He would have been given a new identity, a new pak identity card and settled with a new name.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    So brazen and shameless are pak government that in face of mountain if evidense at Chicago trial, they are not even conducting a fake inquiry about major Iqbal but issuing such asinine statements as 1. There are many Iqbals in pakistan , they don’t know which one did it 2. saying Daood gilani/headley is not reliable or is a cia agent

    meanwhile, just last year, even after daood gilani was arrested by USA, Pak PM Gilani personally went to the house of Headley/Daood Gilani’s father to condole his death

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    If you look back at invasion of Kashmir by Pak in 1947, it claimed that tribals were involved in attack.
    In 1965, it used the same modus operandi,
    In Kargil, it did same.

    In all the three cases it was found that Army regulars were involved in the attack.

    As far as 26/11 is concerned, story is pretty much same except that all the 10 attackers are PRESUMED to be civillians. I highly doubt that looking at their combative skills.

    As regards to Major Iqbal, this person is only known by his alias i.e. Major Iqbal. No one except for pakistani establishment knows his true identity. He may be an ex-ISI or may be a top ISI operative. If pakistan chooses to deny any existence of such Major Iqbal, it can do so and both US & India can not prove otherwise.

    There is a tradition of using aliases in Islamic terror organization such as ABU-***, Major ***, Capt ***, AL-XXXX. No one knows their true identity.

  • Rajiv

    If Tehrik-e-taleban pakistan, agreed to not attack Pak army , but attack only afghan and India , then I think Kayani and Pasha both would give their daughters in marriage to the chief of Tehrik-e-taleban pakistan and a gesture of love and friendship.

    Meanwhile, Nawaz Sarif, has given one of his daughter in marriage to the Saudi Royal family, as a gesture of eternal love and bond between saudi-pak.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv and Rajeev

    Mulla Omar married Osama’s daughter and Osama married Mulla Omar’s daughter… just to solidufy thier friendship….

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Actually, it is a f**Ked up relation.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Rajiv,
    This UPA govt. is least interested in getting justice for 26/11 victims. They are only interested in developing friendly relations with pakistan and if that means ignoring 26/11, they would do so.

    This fake concern that UPA govt. displays regarding 26/11 is same as it shows regarding presence of Dawood in Pakistan. India is simply not interested in capturing Dawood because he could spill beans on our Netas and police officers.

    Same is true for 26/11.. If everything comes to lights, many leaders, film personalities, cops will get embarrassed. To say that 26/11 happened without the help of elements is India is intentionally foolish.
    We all can cry hoarse but pakistan will never punish anyone involved in 26/11 because it knows that India also desires for the same result.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tailpiece: Headley revealed that he cautioned Rahul not to go to south mumbai on 26th Nov.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I meant RAHUL BHATT son of great secularist and importer (of illegal pakistani artists).

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    I do not beleive in ‘conspiracy theories’. The Daood Gilani/Headley trial has exposed all major player and all of them pakistani. No, I have seen zero evidense of any Indian person involvement in any material way.

    Headley, befriended Rahul Bhatt ( Mahesh Bhatt son ) and also befriended a shiv sena functionary. The intent was to get access into respectable Indian circles to collect more information for subversive activities. All that is detailed in the Chicago trial. The Bhatt’s should have now learnt a lesson about being trusting of people from accross the border.
    You may say they deserved it, but thats a different matter.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What do you say about?
    Tailpiece: Headley revealed that he cautioned Rahul not to go to south mumbai on 26th Nov.

    Regarding local involvement there is no conspiracy theory but a cover up by UPA govt. for the sake of vote bank.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Yes, Rahul had become a friend of Headley over time. They met at gym and went out together. Headley also said he thought of inviting Rahul to Pakistan and give him a tour of tribal areas. LeT guys , did not like his idea.
    So it does not surprise me that Headley says he told Rahul to avoid S Bombay. However Headley also repeatedly says he never knew of the exact date. As per Headley, the 26/11 operation was successful on 3rd attemp.

    1. Attemp 1 on MAY 9th or so, the boat hits a rock of Karachi coast and sinks. The 10 attackers survive because all were wearing life-vests and are picked up.

    2. Attemp 2 in June, they fore at an Indian boat to capture it and then use it to sail to Mumbai, just as they did in Nov. The Indian boat escapes , they return home.

    Monsoon sets in and there plans are delayed.

    Finally on 3rd attempt and more training, they finally land in Mumbai in Nov.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Why did Rahul Bhatt not suspect such kind of warning from Headley? He knew Headley was a foreigner and such advice coming from a foreigner should have alarmed Rahul.
    Why did he not share this warning with other especially police? If he shared it with his political savvy father Mahesh Bhatt, Mahesh Bhatt should have smart enough to share it with police or some politician in delhi.

    Read the news item again, it specifically says Headley warned rahul not to visit south mumbai around 26 Nov.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv

    I canbet my bottom rupee that Osama’s hideout was leaked out by Shah Mehmood quereshi. he will probably claim the money thru his son or some relative in the US.

    20 yrs later this news would be declassified…

    Any bets ????

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    That jerk…Nice guess…Possibly
    Isn’t he the one who was so attracted to Hillary?
    Dumped by Gilani…

    Makes sense…

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    your ‘hunch’ seems very very plausible

    But, we don’t have to wait for 20 years to know the ‘truth’. The next bunch of Wilileaks will expose this fraud and smooth-talking rascal and scoundrel.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ Vijay, why specifically Shah M Qureshi? Liked your comment-… Actually my belief is the barriers between Muslims and Hindus need to be broken. But Tajendra was trying to create hatred…

    @ Rajiv with an I- agree- ….Major Iqbal’s service record in the pak army/isi would have been wiped clean under orders from the top. He would have been given a new identity, ….
    but Rajiv am very surprised at your comment ….I tend to beleive that Pak army/ISI really did not know where Osama was….!!.
    You think of ISI as a monolithic homogenous organisation while in reality a significany subset
    (? 20%, ?50%) are incredibly jehadi and would be a law unto themselves. Forget 2611, even in Benazir’s death they may have had a hand.
    Let me actually say I am stunned you say that for both the Afghan intel and USA told us that the murderous attack on the Indian embassy was definitely ISI initiated.
    Have you never seen one of Hamid Gul videos?

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Rajeev and Dr mishra

    You know in Punjab there is a word called Kapatta and khappi and Shah Quereshi is both. he bulldozed our gentle S M Krishana with his loud mouth and over the top antics.

    Anyway he had been sidelined by Zardari. He needed to come back and believed that he could impress Hillary to back him for his plans to come back as the PM of Pakistan.

    Plus 25 million dollars in 22% inflationed Pakistan with negative growth is huge hugge money….

    And yes, it is my gut feeling which could not be very very wrong…

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    I agree on the Benazir part. My impression is that Benazir was killed by Mehsud faction of Taleban , in collaboration with ISI , who were the good Taleban under Musharraf but later turned into the bad Taleban and now lead TTP -Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Mishraji,

    He is actually Rajiv with an I and a mind too of his own.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ manohar, fully agree with you- ….as owner/moderator of the blog, one only hopes that you would adopt an even handed approach and ban other foul mouthed and uncivilised posters, after due warning, as of from now……..
    Vinod ji, I am stunned by Balwinder’s sudden change of demeanour and impressed by your decisive approach. Hope tajender thnks about it and reflects.

    Balwinder, Usman, Pankaj, Rajiv and others – thank you guys glad you enjoyed an insight into my sailing life. Its funny how you are sitting in a peaceful harbour enjoying the sunset, and then suddenly your mood darkens as you think of how a villager Kasab sailed a thousand miles and brought death on us.

    balwinder- you are an anarchist, and as so many have said, you bring a smile to my face. If possible, and I know you will not listen to me, make your jokes less cruel. This blog would not be the same without you

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    You have succumbed to human weakness. You can not compare Tajinder with any one else.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    I have re-read Balwinder praaji s sentences, and only now am I understanding that our normally fun loving sardarji has actually exploded in COLD FURY – …. this is a fiercely vulgar statement which is deeply insulting To Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and his family, and the family of all the dead ones.
    This is disgusting gloating on a terrorist attack. In UK, this is an offence…

    Praaji, thande ho jao. I do salute your patriotism, however

    @ Usman bhai- you have specifically asked me for my opinion on the ‘rat nuclear race’ between India and Pak. I promise you I will reply tomorrow for you have raised some very nice points

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Mishra ji,
    There is no nuclear race as far as India is concerned. Do you hear any country talk about its nuclear weapons and nuclear war except Pak ?

    Actually its Pak policy to bring out the spectre of nuclear war , in every , even minor dispute with India. India has officially declared a “no first use” policy on nuclear weapons.
    Pak has not and has said it will never do that.

    Actually this Pak nuclear tantrum is one of those ‘too clever’ ploys by Pakistan.
    They want to project themselves as a “lunatic with nuclear weapons’ , so if you dont want trouble, just tolerate the mad man and look the other way.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ————————————————————————————————————–
    A different perspective on Indo-Pak-Afghan-Kashmir by a reader in NY Times
    ————————————————————————————————————–

    Pakistan has always had a Pashtun problem. No Afghan government has ever recongnized the “Durand Line” as the legitimate border. It is apparent to a student of history that all the issues Pakistan supposedly has with India and Kashmir are secondary. Their Achille’s heel are the Pathans, or Pashtuns.
    It goes back to 1839 when the British tried to conquer the Pathans. Famously an entire regiment of British soldiers were killed by the Pathans, and a ceasefire line was agreed upon in 1893 between British India and “Pashtunistan”. The line of course existed on the map but not the minds of the people because many Pathans were now in British territory. Point to note is that Durand Line was a ceasefire line, not a boundary between nations.
    When Pakistan was formed in 1947 as a home for the Muslims of British India, it obviously wanted its side of British Pashtun territory to go to them since those Pashtuns were Muslims of British India.
    When Pakistan applied for UN membership in 1947, only one country opposed it. Afghanistan.
    In early 1948, the Hindu prince of Kashmir (Hari Singh) and his Muslim head of government (Sheikh Abdullah) decided to opt for independence under the British Act of Independence of India – their choices were join India, join Pakistan, or be independent.
    From Pakistan’s perspective, this would have been a disastrous precedent given the Pashtuns clamoring for independence on its northwestern border. That was the first time Pakistan played the Islamic card – mere months from its formation.
    The Pakistani government recruited Pashtun “non-state” actors to invade Kashmir in the name of Islam. No war was declared. All combatants were unofficial.
    Singh and Abdullah approached India for help against the invasion. India said no can do because you’re not part of India. Singh then acceded to India in return for military protection of his state.

    Pakistan’s fear of Pashtun nationalism and separatism, which it fears can break up Pakistan, is thus the root of the Indo-Pakistani conflict over Kashmir and also the root of Pak conflict with Afghanistan, not any alleged Indian takeover of Kabul. This is all due to the legacy of 1839, which happened long before Pakistan was even created.

    Unknown to most Americans, there was a homegrown communist revolution in Afghanistan in the mid-to-late ’70s. Pakistan formented an Islamic Pashtun guerilla war then. It was that insurgency that threatened a fellow-communist government in Afghanistan that led the USSR into the region. The rest is well-documented history.
    Even when the US was bankrolling the Pakistanis during the Soviet occupation, all operational control of the mujahideen was with the ISI. The US was just the naive banker.
    After the Soviets went home Pakistan channeled the Pashtun’s pent-up energy into Kashmir again. It is worth noting that from 1948 to 1989 there was almost no violence in Kashmir. The uptick in militancy in Indian-admistered Kashmir in 1989 coincides nicely with the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, leaving all those AK47s lying around and a lot of pumped up Pashtun warriors.

    The short answer to the terror that is Pakistan is to give the Pashtuns their homeland, and to undo the British mistake of an ill-informed bygone era.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    May 28th, 2011 at 1:01 am

    Manohar;
    This is really surprising. you are comparing Tajender with any other person? have you forgotten his posts of Mather and Behan apart from routine Fu..ing of british girls. I hope congressi in you has not been kick started by this ban and now you are trying to do, what diggi would have done exactly.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    what is wrong with diggi only thing his views are different to brhmnst.

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    Dr. Mishra,
    You said :
    “@ ravi / Mahesh- yes we will lose goodwill if we dare, but I have noticed the world loves power. China and Russia get away with murder, as in Chechnya, Georgia, Tibet.”
    (BTW, Please feel free to point out if you feel that I happen to be quoting you out of context. My intent is specifically addressing the “Goodwill” point, thoug – in a somewhat larger context).
    Forget Goodwill. I am not arguing for something that is abstract as the notion of “Goodwill” . Let us accept that the current relations between India and Pakistani state are hopelessly restrained and that the so called “Goodwill” you are hinting at may not be forthcoming anytime soon. That said – armed conflict (even the so called “low-key conflicts”) are not a way out as well. Conflicts tend to have a rather nasty tendency of feeding on each other , eventually giving rise to a much bigger giant.
    Eventually, it will boil down to a few Bombs planted and exploding on the Indian side claiming “co-lateral damage” , perhaps met symmetrically with similar “co-lateral damage” on the Pakistani side. As a result – Pakistani polity will predictably slide further in the grips of militarism further alienating its moderates (actually “bastarding the moderates” is more likeu it – but never mind…) .
    We have seen this sentiment being echoed elsewhere in the world. Shirin Ebadi, the Iranian Human Rights Activist has echoed similar sentiments in the context of G. W. Bush’s policy on Iran (Reference : http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/opinion/30iht-edebadi.1.5927039.html ).
    BTW, that won’t be end of it . The real trouble will start when it would be “fearingly difficult” in India to appeal for moderation, leave alone questioning the policy raationale for military doctrine.
    Honestly, I don’t have an answer on how we deal with the situation. IMHO – a solution based on armed conflict doesn’t appear to be , though.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    @Pankaj,
    You said :
    “Mahesh;
    I was looking forward to engage with you since long time. Now you say, what is the apprehension of pakistan from India, Can you elaborate on this. From indian side, I will try my bit. Indians do not want pakistan to create problems for India by stoking communalism, putting obstacles in the path of progress of India and playing side kicks to China, to thwart, India in getting its rightful place in global affairs. this is just begining, let me hear from you further.”
    My own biggest apprehension with Pakistani state (notice here I am saying Pakistani state) is it’s being under very very firm grips of “militarism” . Once the polity is dominated by militarism – everythen basically gets reduced to a – well – war. In the process inventing real and imagined enemies. This said – I must also qualify that Pakistan has had some really good inflection points , one in 1991-92 with Moinuddin Qureshi at helm of affairs pushing for economic liberalisation. But again , these mostly amounted to missed opportunities. Another aspect with Pakistan has been – it historically it has always been a “wrong guy standing at the wrong place”. Mostly due to Afghanistan. But again , that doesn’t absolve it’s armed forces of the crime of “subjugating the civil polity” .
    BTW, since we are talking about the Indo-Pak conflict, it is my hunch that the real conflict is unfiolding in Afghanistan. Moreover, the contours and motives of this conflict are not at all clear at this point – much less being debated.
    Thanks and looking forward towards more “engaging discussion” .
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Mahesh, the fundamental flaw in your analysis is you are placing pakistan on an equal footing with a liberal democracy. It is essentially a MILITARY STATE. A bit like BURMA. Democracy is an abberation
    seen in spasms. Nawaz sharif told BILL CLINTON after dressing down regarding kargil misadventure, that he may not be alive if he returns, he will be taken out by the army. Same words Zardari told Bush , he fears army will take him out. Please Please analyse pakistan’s history, starting with Bhutto’s execution (photographing his private parts as proof of him being muslim or not), recurring coup de ta, exile of benazir, return brokered by AMERICA, nawaz sharif’s exile brokered by SAUDI ARABIA.
    THIS IS NOT A NORMAL COUNTRY IT IS SCHIZOPHRENIA.
    Heard that scoundrel mani Aiyar in NDTV tonight, felt like spanking.
    MODERATES , LIBERAL SECULAR are microscopic in number and influence.
    THE PUNJABIS RULE PAKISTAN THROUGH THE ARMY. I have interacted with sindhi doctors in UK, it is their opinion.
    Bottom line is unless army is completely divorced from the running of FOREIGN POLICY nothing will happen. Expecting that is same as asking all pakistanis to revert to their ancestral religion .
    So my prescription is , MASSIVE MILITARY FORWARD PLANNING , AND ANOTHER 26/11 , MASSIVE RETRIBUTION , this will give peace for 25yrs , like it did after bangladesh war.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Mahesh,

    if you are really sincere in trying to understand Pakistani predicament the following example will give you some understanding.

    How would you feel if a guy bloodied you, walk away with an item which you think was yours , then the same guy start lecturing you about how his moral standards are higher then yours, calls you thief, fanatic, terrorist etc. and periodically puts salt in your wound? This is how Pakistani establishment feels about India.

    Wouldn’t you have the guy rather walk off and never bother you again rather being permanently in your face and lecturing whenever he gets chance? This is what India under Nehru dynasty has been doing to Pakistan..that case, Wouldn’t you feel desire to inflict thousand wounds on that person?

    In 1947 if India had taken the whole Kashmir Pakistan would have sooner or later reconciled to the loss of Kashmir, as they did about loss of Bangladesh. But instead of that India took the case to UN and forced Pakistani establishment to be hostage to that issue, since no Pakistani leader can give up Kashmir, for which so much emotions have been invested, and survive.

    In addition, India took active part in breaking up Pakistan into Pakistan and Bangladesh. But again India did not seize Kashmir and kept the problem festering.

    Unless India totally disowns NEHRU DYNASTY and their vision, especially SECULARISM, which may provide Pakistani establishment with a room to maneuver there is very little chance of reconciliation. In the worst case scenario, when Pakistan is about to break up due to internal issues it might use nuclear weapons against India like a suicide bomber.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Observer Bhai,
    As is usual with a suicide bomber, Pakistan will trigger the bomb at the earliest sign of encountering counter-attack. Therefore, very likely, the bomb may go off within the boundaries of the rogue state itself.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    The problem is Pakistan is suicidal and crazy, but it is crazy like fox.

    Observer Reply:

    Shenoy Bhai,

    The problem is Pakistan is suicidal and crazy, but it is crazy like fox.

    shan Reply:

    @muddled observer, so india is the villian having liberated BANGLADESH, whose womenfolk were systematically raped, the author TASLEEMA NASREEN ’s aunt comitted suicide after being raped by the PAKIS.. please follow the linkwww.genocidebangladesh.org/
    As for Kashmir , again PAKIS sent the pusthuns to go and grab , THE CORELIGIONIST caused massive plunder and also VIOLET WOMEN FOLKS in poonch rajouri.
    WHAT INDIA DID IS WHAT INDIA DID ALL THROUGHOUT INDIA , THAT IS HOW INDIA THAT WE LIVE WAS CREATED.It is known as INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSSION, that was the only legal instrument for that BIZARRE HISTORICAL SITUATION, where 180 odd principalities were independent yet under british protection. To create a india out of this hotch potch IS NO MEAN FEAT.
    I AM AWARE SPEWING **** ON THE BLOG DOESN’T INCUR ANY TAXES.
    I suggest you take time off from the net and do some serious reading like RAM GUHA’S INDIA AFTER GANDHI

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @CQ shan,

    I am not saying India is villain, What I am saying is Hindu secularists, as opposed to regular Hindus, are the chief culprit for mess in South Asia. Ramchandra Guha , Romolla Thapper and all other secularists are trying to mislead Indians by writing fictions and calling them history.

    Gandhi’s problem was he was blinded by Nehru’s charms. He would have saved South Asia from these quagmire by sending Nehru to pasture. Jnnah was not as fanatic or unreasonable as you guys want us to believe.

    Because you secularists are so diabolical in spreading misinformation, even Goebbels would be impressed by you guys, that you think others do not know the fact.

    There is saying that Nationalism is last resort of scoundrels, which aptly applies to Hindu secularists, who suddenly ,in tradition of claiming of holier than thou, are now trying to claim themselves as staunch nationalists and want to silence us Hindus, to keep your vote bank intact. But Karma has a way of catching up.

    If Nehru and Indira had done their job India would have taken Azad Kashmir and there would be no Taliban as then India would have direct border with Afghanistan.

    Observer Reply:

    @CQ shan,

    India has done a GREAT JOB of providing asylum to TASLEEMA NASREEN from her fanatic cor-religionists. in Calcutta, a great place of religious tolerance.

    shan Reply:

    @MUDDLED AND COFUSED OBSERVER
    india is a SECULAR country , that makes it different from pakistan. Ram Guha is a scholar and a patriot of the highest standing. as for others , they are simply fools .
    I would rather have a Romilla thapar than pravin togadia, secular or otherwise

    shan Reply:

    @Muddled and confused observer, There is a large body of opinion which thinks PARTITION wasn’t a bad idea , ONLY IT WAS DONE BADLY.Because imagine the SALAFI mayhem now across the border would have been played out in every town and cities of India.

    Observer Reply:

    CQ shan,

    Partition was bad idea as millions of Indians, Hindus Muslims and Sikhs, lost their lives, forced to move from their ancestral places and live like refugees in unknown places. Of course it was good idea for CQs as they were able to lord over rump idea, using Muslims as vote bank to prevent country from achieving it’s potential with anemic 4% growth. rate. It was only under Narsimha Rao and Vajpayee, despised by CQs, that Indian growth rate picked up.

    Like typical CQ you turn from tiger into pusy cat when asked about TASLEEMA NASREEN asylum.

    shan Reply:

    @Muddled , confused and downright andhaa non observer,
    That is why I have said IT WAS DONE BADLY, a proper exchange of population woulldn’t be a bad thing , BECAUSE TWO THOUSAND MUSLIMS MOVED INTO EAST PAKISTAN ONE CRORE HINDU MOVED INTO WEST BENGAL.As for TASLEEMA NASREEN , she has my FULLEST SUPPORT AND ADMIRATION AND SHOULD BE ACCORDED AN INDIAN CITIZENSHIP.

    Observer Reply:

    @Drutarashtra type CQ shan,

    Partition was not needed and could have been avoided if Gandhi had send away Nehru to pasture.

    Now “WISE MAN” explain to me why two thousand Muslims went to east Pakistan and one crore Hindus moved to west Bengal?

    shan Reply:

    @Aandha observer, You need to do some serious reading, for a starter try this DO OR DIE, INDIA’S STRUGGLE FOR INDEPENDENCE , BY PATRICK FRENCH.
    Jinnah’sgripe was not with nehru , but with the coterie of CONSERVATIVE hindu leadership in the congress party , who were right hand men of gandhi. NEHRU WAS USED BY GANDHI ONLY TO NEUTRALISE NETAJI SUBHAS.
    Why ONE CRORE moved to west bengal ,the answer is NO SANE PERSON UNLESS MUSLIM CAN LIVE IN AN ISLAMIC THEOCRACY WITH CONSTANT FEAR , AND SECOND CLASS CITIZEN STATUS.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shan,

    you sound utterly pseudo when you praise Romilla Thaapar and Ramachandra Guha. Guha is fit for writing only cricket history and he is too enamoured of the white skinned Nehru family to be an objective writer of anything that can even remotely be called history. It is only his-story. As for the other JNU historians, I think even you, with all your warped sense of Hindu nationalism, can write better “history”

    shan Reply:

    @Shenoy, I consider Romilla Thapar , a third grade historian , not for its slanted narrative , BUT EVERY REFERENCE SHE QUOTES ON INDIAN HISTORY IS GORA SOURCE, SHE DOES NOT KNOW SANSKRIT.But I still would hear her instead of d i c k head togadia who is hindu version of taliban with all the obscurantism.
    Next isRam GUHA, just one question , have you read his book INDIA AFTER GANDHI , back to back AS I HAVE DONE, if you have , then you should retract your statement. The book is right here with me QUOTES WILL BE PROVIDED TO PROVE MY POINT

    Observer Reply:

    @Stupid CQ shan

    There should not have been any partition and if there was one then rump India should have been as much hospitable to Muslims as Jinnah’s secular Muslims was to Hindus.

    The reason less than hundred thousand British were able to rule more than 400 million Indians was they were smart in understanding Indians and contoling them with minimum force.. Seeing you Bengali guys , Guha , Thappar etc. I can understand why British ranked nearly uneducated but tough Gurakhas over emotionally turbulent Bengalis.

    You should read Mahatma Gandhi biography by Fischer and you will realize the role of Nehru in inciting Jinnah. Even Gandhi himself confided to Fischer that may be he made error in not accepting Jinnah’s last proposal for separate ballot for Hindus and Muslims. If that proposal had been accepted there would not have been a Pakistan and death knell to Hindu CQ monkeys who wanted to use Muslims as vote banks.

    In India basically Gujaratis, Maharastrians, south Indians etc. are creators as major Independence leaders like Tilak, Gokhale, Gandhi, Jinnah, Vallabhbhai Patel were from these groups, while Kashmiris and Bengali are problems. Most of Hindu CQs are from these areas and UP, Bihar which are some of the slowest growing area.

    Seeing your behavior I can understand how frustrating it was for Gandhi to deal with emotionally turbulent Bose, who did not understand how to deal with Britishers as you are with Muslims. So finally Gandhi had to put Bose in his place.

    I would chose Gandhi, Patel Togadia, Modi, etc. and even Jinnah any time over Nehru, Indira, Guha, or refugee CQs such as Jyoti Basu, Kudip Nayyar, Kushwant Singh, Sacchar.

    I would also like to know why your CQ heros such as Jyoti Basu, Kuldip Nayyar, Khuswant Singh, Sacchar did not stayed in Pakistan and fight for secularism over there and die for it there i.e. putting their money where there mouth is, rather than running away like hyenas at night to India. Nothing irritates me more than refugees lecturing us, rather then be grateful that we let them in and not sending them back.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mahesh;
    sorry for not coming back to you early. had to do some” HOME WORK”.
    will be with you in a short while.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mahesh;
    You are saying that pakistani state has been militarized, no doubt about it, but since what time you trace this genesis of militarization, I say since 712 ( know this is a bit too much) but the idea that Muslims are different and superiors and ultimately will rule the world, that is the genesis of this particular mindset. late history supports this thought in the sense, that starting from a nebulous state of madina, muslims rules over a vast swathe of land. that empire acheved many good things also, in science, architecture, literature etc. but on the religious front, it got stagnated and though, adviced by many thinkers to introspect, hanafi and some other sects have gone back to Prophets time , minus its virtues,vis a vis, society of that time and want to have literal interpretation of Islam. why I am narrating all this,? because it has a bearing on the present situatioin in Pakistan. the whole society has changed into a islamic society, I am not talking of masses but high professionals, as illustrated by a post in this blog only, that top notch, nuclear scientist, sultan basheer, belived in the presence of Jinns. many Pakistani doctors, with whom I have worked, claim to be Moguls, when pitch black in colour and when pointed out this discrepancy about color and facial features, had no answer but gibberish.So the whole society has been transformed into a very warped society.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    next half is below.

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    Sharmaji,
    Just discovered that HT is using Wordpress’s blog engine. For some reason the “HT adaptation” has been skirting several of the Blog Engine’s wonderful features, including the often demanded chronology of comments. Please choose and feel free to push HT’s IT folks for exposing these features. Several wonderful discussions are falling out of gaps.
    Thanks,
    Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ Mahesh, Sir you are a pragnmatist. In this war cabinet that I am assembling here on a lovely island, I find RAJIV going too fast and furious. To his Sardar Patel, you are the pragmatic Nehru.
    Your caution reads well- ‘…. armed conflict (even the so called “low-key conflicts”) are not a way out as well. Conflicts tend to have a rather nasty tendency of feeding on each other , eventually giving rise to a much bigger giant….’
    Very true Mahesh. But as I have said million times before, since 1971, we have only been fielding, taking hit after hit. We only batted once- when we intentionally downed a surveillance plane of Pakistan, just after Kargil had finished.
    I play a lot of internet chess, my rating is moderate. Only 1600. Winning against a superior player should not involve too much defence, sometimes it is nice to send the knight out, to harass, to explore.
    Although, right now perhaps the best strategy is to sit on the balcony seat in Wagah and watch the brash American cowboy do all our batting for us.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    havent started on my ouzo yet, maybe the mood will be more belligerant then

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Mishraji,
    “Although, right now perhaps the best strategy is to sit on the balcony seat in Wagah and watch the brash American cowboy do all our batting for us.”
    Agreed, yet am not too sure about that as well. I guess we could use a little philosophy and say – this too shall pass.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    @ Rajiv with an I
    You did not wait till tomorrow, you wanted to thrash out the ‘rat nuclear race’ issue today. I know it is tedious going back, but pl do read many of USMAN bhai’s posts.
    Who are we to decide what Pakistan should have done in the seventies. We built our ‘atum bumb’ because we are insecure of China, pak built it because of us. It is all very well to say that of course we would never attack Pakistan first- yes RAJIV we know that- does Pakistan.

    INSECURITY on their part cannot be denied, albeit militarism tinged with Islamist superiority is undeniably also there. I will be provocative and say that all our smugness at our explosions did not even last weeks before they exploded theirs.

    Rajiv, chota desh hai, hamare muqabley mein. We sometimes need to stand in their own shoes and think like them. US loved its bombs, did not want anyone else having them.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    contd-
    This smug feeling- its okay for me to have the ‘bumb’ but not alright for the insect lower down in the pecking order to have one, extends from USA down to us. If iot was possible and cheap, EVEN SRI LANKA AND BAGLADESH WOULD HAVE ONE.

    Meanwhile I pray that the guards on these nuke installations are not carrying surnames like Mehsud and Quadri !!

    Usman did have some points to make

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Syed, Gopi, Pankaj, Shenoy, Balwinder, Hegde, Vijay, Rajiv and all others- look forward to you guys shredding my stance

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    before you type your next post, you seriously need to disabuse yourself of certain innocence vis-avis Pakistan.

    You have asked, rhetorically, “Who are we to decide what Pakistan should have done in the seventies”. We are nobody; accepted. But, the military there didn’t ask their own people what they should have done during the seventies, before seventies or anytime during their misrable Islamic existence.

    India has become a nuclear technology state in the early fifties under Dr. Bhaba and Nehru’s leadership. In 1974, Indira Gandhi exploded Pokhran-1, with the clear intention of developing into a nuclear bomb state. It was just unfortunate that a bold lady who didn’t give a **** to world leaders’ opinion/s, should have restrained herswelf and India by not taking the several logical steps in our progression to the state of being a nuclear weapon state. If she had done that then, we would have had several years of lead in this field.

    Pakistan’s nuclear bomb has been entirely a clandestine affair, with China giving all help freom the nut-bolt stage onwards, with the express, evil intention of building its own hegemony and also by stoking Pajkistan’s visceral hatred for India post 1971. Even during operation brasstack, it has sent clear warning to India of its intention to use the basement bomb if India moved any further.

    Therefore, Mishraji, ‘yeh mere joote, unke joote’ baat chodiye. We don’t have to do that to see the real Pakistan and its all consuming hatred for India and burning desire to destroy our country by all means it can employ.

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    I feel you are saying this just to instigate us. are you still in Hyde Park mode. Nuclear Bomb with such an irresponsible state?? Do not you realize that what it has done to the psyche of that nation? It has simply hastened its end by making it mad and as it was said somewhere that god make them made first, when god wants to destroy them.
    Had not Bhabha died in plane crash( strongly feel, that was a sabotage, still ,do not know, whether, our top rank scientist get maximum covert security or Not) India would have been fifth nuclear power long time back, as India was more advanced in that technology than China. World would have accepted as such, and in place of china,India would be in security council as 5th member. Very foolishly, Nehru recommended china and withdrawing India’s nomination.. Is there a limit to foolishness.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy and Dr mishra

    Shenoy you are right. We never show our nuclear muscle in every debate. Nor do we use it as a cover to export terror and jehad.

    Neither do we have state bred suicde bombers who want to capture nuclear installations to scare the world and make them convert to thier thought processes.

    So Dr Mishra… why should we compare them to us, even for the sake of an intellectual debate??/

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Because genetically both Indians and Pakistanis, particularly Sindhi and Punjabis, are same.

  • rajiv

    @Dr Mishra,
    No one questions the right of anyone, including Pakistan to own the ‘bumb’.
    Its suppose to be a defensive weapon, used as a last resort if facing annhilation.
    In fact, if an irresponsible state like Pak can have the bomb, then UN should distribute the bumb to all nations , that do not have.

    Anyway, my point is that Pak , instead of becoming more confident and secure with the bumb, have become more reckless. Everytime a dispute erupts, they start raising the spectre of nuclear war and talk incessantly about it. I say shut up.

    There posture is that e are lunatics with the bumb, so stay away.
    On top of that, there media is full of stories about how India, USA, Israel are all trying to stal the bumb, which is the sole protector and guarantor of pakistan. If they are to be believed, they are spending sleepless nights trying to protect the bumb, which as suppose to give them a good nights sleep.

    I am not too off the topic when I say its a lunatic state and I must say, many pakistanis agree with me.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajiv, it is not just a “bumb”, it is an ISLAMIC BUMB”. You have completely ignored the nuclear proliferation to all the islamic countries, the consequences the rest of humanity may have to bear.
    THOUGH I PLACE AMERICA AS THE SOB , RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.
    also it wouldn’t have mattered ,pakistanis having “bumb” only if they were a truly SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, WHERE THE CIVIL SOCIETY IS ARTICULATED BY THE GOVT OF THE DAY.nukes in the hand of mad mullahs/dictators is a doomsday scenario.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Shan,
    I hope you have read the comments of Afghan taleban ambassador to pak before 2001 us invasion of afganistan, in his book. If not I will repost.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Shaan,

    for once I agree with you.

    If the US had exerted even half the pressure it has on North Korea, Pakisatan would have been just a rogue Islamic state. Now, it is a rogue Islamic bomb state. The world better sit up and take note.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Mishra,
    Christina Fair, an expert on Indo-Pak affairs in her diposition before Congress this week, commented that Pak trains and supports Lashker-e-toiba terrorists against India , providing them shelter under its nuclear umbrella, calculating that India would not respond militarily or in any significant way.
    Nuclear weapon should have made pakistan confident and secure, it has made it reckless and paranoid about protecting it and that too at great economic cost to its people.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    watch this brilliant video- Asma Jahangir savaging Pak army- calling them DUFFERS. Actually saying the army has brought terror to every mohalla of Pak. She also savages Mush for sending the Northern Light Infantry to a senseless war on Kargil
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlbSyaCH3C8&feature=player_embedded
    The good lady actually says- THE ARMY REARS SUICIDE BOMBERS

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Mishra
    That video should be a mandatory watch for people who comment on Indo-Pak affairs.
    I have read Asma Jahangir before. Never heard her. This i a stunning video.

    She is absolutely fearless , to the point and correct.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Vinod ji;
    Mubarak ho. this blog has surpassed the number of posts, ever known to me at least. Hip Hip Hurray.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji has separately sent a ‘thank you’ note to Pakistani scum, Tajender.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Pankaj
    Many thanks for the participation of all. Besides, the debate has immensly improved.Am really impressed and getting educated.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    ———————————————————————————————–
    US / Mrs Clinton hands over 5 most wanted list to Pak
    ———————————————————————————————–

    1. Mullah Omar
    2. Ayman zawahari
    3. Siraj Haqanni
    4. Illas Kashmiri ( this guy though not involved in 26/11, was a contact of Headley )
    5. A A Rehman(al-qaida )

    None from LeT on this list, as expected.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Aan excellent piece on

    Pak army and Al-Qaida , by respected pak columnist Khaled A of Friday Times.
    Must read.

    http://www.thefridaytimes.com/27052011/page4.shtml
    Here is a sample excerpt

    “……….
    Fighting India is the primary task given to the Pakistan Army by Pakistani nationalism. It would be dereliction on the part of the Pakistani generals to deflect attention from this primary task to fighting elements who cannot be defeated and a clash with whom may actually cause defections and civil war. The mental grooves created by textbooks and years of indoctrination incline the army to fighting India. It is more satisfying to fire a Hatf-10 tactical-nuclear missile to set the dovecots of Hindu India aflutter than to persuade a heavily Islamist army to fight Al Qaeda. Anatol Lieven in his book Pakistan a Hard Country (Allen Lane 1011) describes this mind:

    ‘A common definition of tragedy is that of a noble figure betrayed and destroyed by some inner flaw. The Pakistani military is in some ways an admirable institution, but it suffers from one tragic feature which has been with it from the beginning, which has defined its whole character and world view, which has done terrible damage to Pakistan and which could in some circumstances destroy Pakistan and its armed forces altogether. This is the military’s obsession with India in general, and Kashmir in particular…both the military’s prestige and the personal experiences of its men have become especially focused on Kashmir’ (p. 185).

    Another recent book edited by Pakistan’s most effective ambassador to the US Maleeha Lodhi – Pakistan beyond the ‘Crisis State’ (OUP 2011) – has historian Ayesha Jalal depict the scene in Pakistan like this: ‘Besieged by enemies within and without, television’s spin-doctors, impelled by the state’s intelligence agencies, attribute Pakistan’s multifaceted problems to the machinations of invisible external hands, as opposed to historically verifiable causes of internal decline and decay. If India’s hegemonic designs are not hindering Pakistan at every step, America and Israel are believed to be hatching plots to break up the world’s only Muslim nuclear state. Call it paranoia, denial or intellectual paralysis, but Pakistan’s deeply divided and traumatised people are groping for a magical formula to evade collective responsibility for their failure to gel as a nation’.

    ……….”

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    ————————————————————————————————————————————
    India’s longest tunnel , piercing a 12km hole accross the mighty pir panjal range in Kashmir, almost ready
    ————————————————————————————————————————————-

    QAZIGUND: The rail link between Kashmir valley and the rest of the country will be completed by December 2012 once India’s longest tunnel at 11 km — connecting Qazigund with Banihal — is constructed within a year.

    The tunnel, one of the world’s largest and deepest, will pierce through the Pir Panjal range below snowline, which stands like a wall between the Valley and Jammu.

    The engineering marvel, named T80, is strategically important for the country since the only road link via the Jawahar Tunnel, which connects both the regions in the border state, is often blocked due to heavy snowfall.

    “The tunnel will provide all-weather connectivity between the two regions,” said Chahatey Ram, chief administrative officer of Northern Railway. “We are hopeful that Banihal-Qazigund rail link will be commissioned by December 2012,” he added.

    Hitesh Khanna, director (works) of IRCON, which is executing the project, said of the 11-km stretch, work has been completed in 10.40km. The distance between Banihal and Qazigund will be reduced to only 16km once the tunnel becomes operational, said R V Anand of IRCON.

    Railways is also building an eight-feet wide service road along the T80 for any exigency.

    The Banihal-Qazigund project is part of the Katra-Qazigund (129 km) venture, passing through hostile terrain of young Himalayas that are routinely posing geological surprises to the engineers. The inhospitable terrain has forced IRCON to construct 67.5km of access road to reach the project site, which has also helped in providing connectivity to around 35 villages.

    Railways is using state-of-the-art Austrian tunnelling method to construct T80 that involves integration of surrounding soil formations into a ring-like support structure.

    In 2002, then NDA government had announced a 345-km Jammu-Udhampur-Katra-Qazigund-Baramulla railway line, the biggest mountain rail project since the Independence.

    The 53-km Jammu-Udhampur section was opened to the public in 2005, and the 119-km
    Qazigund-Baramulla route has been operational since 2009.

    At present, the 6.5km Karbude tunnel of the Konkan Railway is the longest tunnel in India.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————

    This is great news. Looking forward to travelling on a fast train from Delhi to SriNagar.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Vijay,
    In the U.S.there has been fair amount of coverage of the Headley case. However, the Blago trial will curtail the space for the Headley trial.
    In the U/S/ print has been in steadydrcline. Most people get their news from the internet. Some of the sites to go to atre Politico, the Daily Beast, and the Huffington Post. Just yesterday, Fox News, the most highly rated cable news network covered the Headley case.
    Rajeev , you were quite pessimistic Major Iqbal being an anonymous figure.But the U.S. has a lot of cottoborative evidence. They have intercepted e-mails, voice samples, and intercepted conversations.I am sure the CIA and NSA will use evidence for tactical gains. We have to stand firmly behind the lawyers of the six American victims. If Lockerbie was a lesson, we should learn that an innocent piblic of a nation has different agenda as compared to commercial and strategic interests of a nation state.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    “Now let us use US as much as we can to achieve our end”
    SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE IMPOTENCE OF THE INDIAN STATE

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shan,

    If you have an ideas on what each one of should do in this, let us know…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay kumar, well we may have missed the critical 48hrs post 26/11.The whole world was behind us ,and every army guy in india and US has said INDIA CAN INFLICT CONSIDERABLE DAMAGE.It would have sent a strong mesage. As luck would have it , there was a discussion in NDTV , the gentleman MR SATISH CHANDRA ex highcommissioner to pakistan , echoed my words , he said WE HAVE MADE MISTAKES, WE HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING TO MAKE PAKISTAN UNDERSTAND THAT TERROR EXPORT HAS A MASSIVE PRICE TO PAY
    However for detail analysis you will have to wait, I am off to watch a theatre in OLD VIC today called Cause Celebre

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shan

    26/11 changed us a lot. Before that a fgroup of leftists and romantic Pakistan lovers would have blamed Shiv Sena or some Indian group equally for the attacks.

    Remember Headley had purchased red HIndu bangles which the jaahil terrorists wore and the red tika applied on their foreheads to deflect attention away from Pakistan. Because the event was telecast live, lies by morons like Digvijay, Antulay or Arundhati could not create doubts — even though they tried hard– that the attackers were not pakistanis but some sort of right wing HIndus.

    You have to ultimately admit that the present Congress setup will not have the balls to inflict damage on Pakistan. It would require an NDA sort of government or an Indira Gandhi who is committed to the Indian nation and is willing to return a slap by slapping back the enemy four times…. :D

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    Vijay

    You wrote

    There are some idiotic and dumb anchors in some channels who keep saying Hamid Gul sahab, Gohar Ayyb sahab out of deference or as to pr0ove that they are on good terms at a personal level, even though they or similar jehadi mindets keep blabbering lies

    ———-

    Pray tell us as to how to address them, who are invited for the panel discussions on Indian channels?

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Manohar

    When you invite someone it does not mean athiti devo all the time.

    India today calls Musharraf and bends backwards to prove… look look we have got Jarnaail shahab at our conference… we should get TRP ratings !

    At the Agra summit, earlier all media men except Sanghvi and Prannoy Roy were like teenage girls hunting for an autograph from a filmstar :D

    Or when Shah Mehmood Qureshi made fun of SM Krishana, Mani Silencer Aiyar on TV just said, oh Shah is a good friend of mine, otherwise, he should be careful. NO reprimand, no criticism. Just servility.

    All these media men on panels or otherwise who bend before jehadis and do not frame questions as to pinpoint their lies are only aiding and pushing Pakistan onto the path of further terrorism and militancy.

    Instead they should take a few coaching lessons from Arnab or for that matter Maroof Raza who do not get shaken up that they have an important guest.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    @Shenoy and Vijay – an earthquake shakes up the nuclear plant in Japan and its micro radiation got picked up in Europe. Chernobyl happened. Naval base in Karachi happened. God writes these scripts and we humans DO NOT know what happens next.
    For our own safety, engaging with Pakistan is a must to lower their paranoia. Pathological it may be, but it is there. SO unless we want to wake up to the headline- Taleban storms nuke facility and wlks off with uranium- we must have a long term plan FOR THE WHOLE WORLD of non proliferation, reduction and maybe even abolition.
    You walk out on the street and encounter a madman, like it or not, you take great care if he wields a machete. Hate him all you want, but that will not save yr life. Respecting his madness and his weapon, will.

    as mishraji said -”This smug feeling- its okay for me to have the ‘bumb’ but not alright for the insect lower down in the pecking order to have one, extends from USA down to us.”’

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    yes, right now it feels like a lull in India. I agree with Mishra doc- ” right now perhaps the best strategy is to sit on the balcony seat in Wagah and watch the brash American cowboy do all our batting for us. ”
    One day that cowboy will leave. That cowboy says 2014, my guess ? 2020

    BTW, VINOD JI- WHY IS TAJENDER NOT BANNED, AS YOU PROMISED, or r u trying to reach 1000 comments with his Zaid Hamid rants. It destroyed Zia’s blog I can tell you

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    if balwinder has slightest of shame ,he should not come on blog.he wasa pain for everybody.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Vinodji,

    you have said, “@Balwinder Sandhu
    I have just instructed that Tajender be blocked out of this site. I have never done this before but then there’s always a beginning. I can’t afford to lose better debators on this blog and feel that this guy is really offensive.”

    We all on this blog welcome this fatwa, though belated, but wecome none the less.
    Tajender is the scum of Pakistani earth. It is a good riddance to a foul presence. Congratulations to you for your bold and right decision.

    Now, we will have toi be on the look out for a new Bijender/f**cked up Inder.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    benoy,

    i am very much here watching u.if any lie or attack on national unity comes from parivar or their fellow travellers,tajender will raid ur mehfil.speak truth behave nicely talk unity and application of law of land fairly.u will find tajender on ur side.

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Yawn!!!

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    This tajinder episode, underlines, that there is a battery of motivated, half literates, hell bent to wreak not this blog but collective will of people of India. They concentrate on fault lines and try to create dissension. This could be ISI sponsored as well. Secularists are seeing this as minority /majority issue, No sir, it has deeper implications. This victim of Brahmnst, is so cunning and resourceful, that immediately he came back,just changing his spelling. From the weaker section? my foot.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Rizwan (I am restraining myself from using any adjectives)
    your lines”God writes these scripts and we humans DO NOT know what happens next.”
    Despite born and brought up in INDIA your intellect still is moulded by the concepts created at SAND DUNES.
    Chernobyl had nothing to do with Allah, IT WAS RECKLESSNESS ON THE PART OF THE OPERATORS AT THE PLANT , THE TEMPERATURE WENT ABOVE THE CRITICAL POINT,YOU DONT NEED ALLAH , IT CAN BE DEMONSTRATED AGAIN IN KUSABH REACTOR IN QUETTA BY NON BELEIVERS IF YOU WISH.
    Next is japan. TSUNAMI happens because of tectonic shifts, the geological plates slides over another , anybody with class1 knowledge of geology knew japan’s coast is most vulnerable. Again it is CORRUPT AND ARROGANT japanese official who knowingly flouted well known scientifc truths.
    Your lines reminds me of a BBC programme on Tsunami in Indonesia. There was this INDONESIAN geology teacher , who explains plate tectonics , YET ASCRIBED THE TSUNAMI TO ALLAH’S WRATH
    To which i say TAMASO MA JYTOTRIGOMAYO(Lord deliver us from darkness to light
    Make a huge print of the following sentence in a A3 paper , laminate it and hang it on the walls of your bedroom

    EVEN IF THERE IS GOD , HE HASN’T GOT THE POWER TO CHANGE ANYTHING
    —-EPICURIUS

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rizwan

    The larger question of nuclear contamination is always a big danger. During the last floods in Pakistan I would wonder what would happen in case the reactors got flooded.

    Would it have lead to massive contamination of the land downstream??

    Fukushima and Chernobyl have already shown the dangers. Even the breakaway republics of the Soviet Union have nuclear technology which could be misused or be dangerous in case of natural phenomenon like quakes and floods.

    But the big nuclear danger to the world will really come from Pakistan where the militants have no qualms about blowing anyone who does not agree with them.

    The trouble is with a such a motivated and mad neighbour, you have little or no choice. If they have the bomb, you surely need one for your own good. In our case our first fear, CHina had it since the sixties.

    As for engaging Pakistan, I wonder on what basis we can do so. The moment you start taking to them they come up such slothful gas that you feel like punching them in the nose.

    Sample these comments of their Foreign secretary after our PM made an attempt to break bread

    — MUmbai dossiers are a piece of literature
    — The Mumbai evidences are a prehistorical evidence

    Or the the general refrain from their side that we are all victims of terror so why does India complain.

    What bullshit !! This is all terror caused by Pakistan and we need to make the Paksitani state close down its terror factories and punish the killers.

    Till they don’t do this, we can never be freinds. Wold you want to be friendly to a guy who wants to kill your family behind your back???

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Shan, it was just a gentle refined way of talking when illustrating a larger argument when I said ”God writes these scripts….”

    A bit of literary license. I am sorry you missed the nuance

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizwan , this is your TAQUIYA in full swing

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Rajiv, with an I
    You made my day with that story of the tunnel I said before ‘…right now perhaps the best strategy is to sit on the balcony seat in Wagah and watch the brash American cowboy do all our batting for us. ”

    Let me paraphrase that Rajiv- ‘…right now perhaps the best strategy is to BUILD OUR NATION AND ACONOMY while the brash American cowboy does all our batting for us. ”

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    No Dr Mishra. It does not happen that way.No country is going to come to your defence if you cannot defend yourself. You also have to demonstrate your capabilities to inflict injury. If a country thinks that it shall just concentrate on building its economy , and growth , and neglects to build its military prowess , countries will needle you and not allow that growth to happen.
    To my mind Economic Growth, and building of Military capabilities have to go hand in hand.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Praveen, thank you.
    If you look back at my posts over the last 1 year, I have been hammering away at the imp of rebuilding RAW, at realising our fullest naval blockade potential, which almost ran Pak dry of oil (only we came to know of it later through Nawaz Sharief’s memoirs) etc

    But right now, all the hatred and venom of the Islamists is directed at Af and USA. The pak economy is slowly sliding down and we are going up. Now is not the time to tangle with the Pakistani cobra. As Rizwan said, the yanks could well be here till 2020. Guys celebrate- 9% growth till 2020- then we would be able to bankrupt Pak in a arms purchase and would be able to throw serious ‘rokda’ at the Balochs.

    Praveen, come here and sit beside me at Wagah- I am watching a very engrossing film – Shootout at Abbotabad- I am reliably told more sequels will follow

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    Though what you say is generally true, there are exceptions.

    in 1962, an under-prepared India went into a war with China and found to its utter humiliation that we couldn’t defend ourselves. But, just then Kennedy, the then US president, listened to Nehru’s frantic appeals and instantly began emergency deliveries of arms and ammunition round the clock. Which was why China “persuaded” itself that India has been taught a badly needed lesson and called for a unilateral ceasefire.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Welcome back Shenoy Sahab!

    Arre sir a poem on Kani mozhi who wants bail for being a woman and for being bitten by mosquitoes and sharing a toilet,,,

    Poor girl. Let us forget the 214 crores Balwa gave her…

    a poem on her plight would gladden my heart. !!

  • Dr Mishra

    Rizwan, youi spoke well ‘…You walk out on the street and encounter a madman, like it or not, you take great care if he wields a machete. Hate him all you want, but that will not save yr life. Respecting his madness and his weapon, will….’
    In fact you spoke bloody brilliantly. Do not let these comments about -Taquiya or sand dunes of Arabia -detract you.
    Well done young man

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Praveen Saxena

    You are right about building military might. Unfortunately after Bofors we have been slipping badly as the scam destroyed the will of the army to take dipsapassionate decisions fast.

    Further more even today there are wrong decisions being taken. We have recently gone for a purchase of a European fighter jet, which even the Europeans don’t rate as good as F-22 which was being offered to us.

    Kya Europe mein koi dalal toh nahi baitha????

    Our own Defnce production should have been ramped up. Sadly we have not had good defence Minsters after jagjivan Ram and Arun Singh.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Dr Mishra and Vijay

    Thanx Dr Mishra for the invite. Maybe I would feel more comfortable watching something more native … probabaly…the Shootout at Lokhandavala. But are you sure of more sequels to that one ?

    And Vijay I am with you on the Defence Ministers u mentioned. But u forgot to mention George Fernandes. But Vijay , neglecting or building defence capabilities is more of a political decision and would depend more on overall policy of the Government.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Praveen

    I forgot Geoprge who was a soldiers man.

    Sad that an out of job Tejpal succeeded in blacking his image and also that of the army with a fake sting.

    If Tejpal has supplied prostitutes why is he not hauled for pimping and trying to corrupt Army men for selling his magazine? :D

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    George Fernandez was a great defence min istrer. Proved that a great Gandhian can also be a great defence minister; that the two are not either/or

    Vijay and shenoy, btw, I have enjoyed and learned from your writings.. I have not been able to spend much time here; but i will try.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Gopi,

    Thank u gopi. I just hammer at my keyboard while travelling from site to site or working on a design in office. It is nice to know that it make sense to someone…

    Manohar_T Reply:

    If Tejpal has supplied prostitutes why is he not hauled for pimping and trying to corrupt Army men for selling his magazine?

    ————

    Kyaa baat hai!

    A requests B to jump in the well, B jumps and blames A for his predicament.

    shan Reply:

    @gopi thomas, do keep in mind there is a thing called internet, so before posting porkys like george fernandes, a gandhian BE AWARE, THIS FROM WIKIPEDIA
    .[13] He relates the beginning of his career saying that, “When I came to Bombay, I used to sleep on the benches of Chowpatty Sands. In the middle of the night policemen used to come and wake me up and ask me to move on.”[14] He came into contact with veteran union leader D’Mello, and the socialist Rammanohar Lohia, who were the greatest influences on his life.[13][15] Later, he joined the socialist trade union movement.[10] He rose to prominence as a trade unionist and fought for the rights of labourers in small scale service industries such as hotels and restaurants. Emerging as a key figure in the Bombay labour movement in the early 1950s, Fernandes was a central figure in the unionisation of sections of Bombay labour in the 1950s.[16] As a labour organizer, he served many prison terms when his workforce engaged in fights with company goons.[17] H

  • Rizwan

    Vijay I am surprised you say ” As for engaging Pakistan, I wonder on what basis we can do so. The moment you start taking to them they come up such slothful gas that you feel like punching them ”

    that is why we have an IFS – students handpicked for thieir intelligence, personality and command of English, that is why we have Nirupama Rao, – you have to know how to look them in the eye when they spew bs- the world has to see erudite urbane Indians articulating and debating, making Pak leaders look like chancers and mullahs.

    To both Shenoy ji AND Vijay- engaging does not mean befriending the foe, ALTHOUGH IF YOU DO BEFRIEND INDIVIDUALS, then that is a bonus

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan,

    Pakistan is not an easy neighbour to engage with since they come with a bagful of agenda. As you have seen on this site, one fake Tajendra could ruin a blog.

    Ok! Maybe we ca engage them to the extent that our security does not get compromised….

    maybe….??? dont know

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Dear Tur-d endar

    How did you float out of the WC.

    Vinodji said that you had been flushed out !

    :D :D :D

    [Reply]

    Kushagra Reply:

    Tu sirf bhaukta hi rahega ki kaatega bhi?

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    I agree with Rizwan. this engagement word has many connotation, including” Rules of Engagement”".
    Talking to them does not mean lowering your guard. By talking, you may have better ideas to tackle them and who knows, you may develop a channel, which will help you in crunch time, against Army. Impossible nay, may be improbable.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    manohar- you say- ” Pray tell us as to how to address them, HAMID GUL, MUSHY etc who are invited for the panel discussions on Indian channels? ”

    I agree with Vijay, I am sick of X ji this and Y jee that. If

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    manohar- you say- ” Pray tell us as to how to address them, HAMID GUL, MUSHY etc who are invited for the panel discussions on Indian channels? ”

    I agree with Vijay, I am sick of X ji this and Y jee that. If I am an anchor, I would simply say- Pervez or I would say Musharraf, not Mr not Gen and definitely not ji or jee.
    Sick of Barkha Dutt simpering upto Mushy few months ago – to think in 1999 as a young kid I used to idolise her, WHEN DID IT ALL GO SO WRONG FOR HER

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    If you invite someone, treat him/her with respect, otherwise do not. It does not cost anything to be civil. That is what I have been taught.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Manohar

    Call a butcher home and keep saying sir sri… and not asking him why he killed our children?? Is that what you want?

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Let me try and making it simple.

    Nobody is asking someone to invite anyone (including butchers). If you do, then treat him with respect, otherwise do not invite. As simple as that.

  • jai vaidya

    http://is.gd/5JXGtq what the hell is going on in Limey land.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @vaidya, this is a stale news. This one is only one day old. Four bearded scums have been jailed for 5 yrs for GBH on a white teacher. His crime He was a religious education teacher in a school where 99% students are bangladeshi. his crime was teaching islam being an INFIDEL.
    the white teacher was slashed with a knife on the face and hit with concrete which fractured his skull. MI5 is following 2000 plots being hatched in UK.
    THIS READ WITH UK’S LEADERSHIP IN TRYING TO EJECT GADDAFI , SO THAT A PLIANT GOVT IS INSTALLED , SO THAT OIL PUMPING AND EXPLORATION BEGINS IN FULL FORCE.
    For OIL UK can withstand such c r a p.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rizwan

    Well said! Somewhere I feel that many many journalists are doing a lot for personal wealth and career. The 2 G tapes revealed that journalists were willing to compramise and peddle untruths for personal benefits.

    In case of Barkha, it is especially sad as so much of India loved her, especially after Lakshaya. Her conversations with kanimozhi are an absolute giveaway. And so much more is still hidden from us…

    Recently NDTV was again batting for releasing Kanimozhi on gender lines. That she is a woman; that she has to share the toilet; that she is being bitten by mosquitoes; apoor mother and a daughter is in prison…

    Full drama and rona dhona. At the end of it, I alsomt had tears in my eyes for the por Kanimozhi who just took a thousand crores as kickbacks, out of which two hundred crores have ben traced…:D

    Arre Shenoy sahab… Iss par kuch poem ho jaye….

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    And Vijay there was a learned counsel there too. Methinks he had an eye on the “Briefs” , not one which have gone his way so far.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Parveen

    Lawyers are like arms dealers. They make money by fighting for both sides :D The lottery lawyer and the Salvation lawyer are best of friends. But both represented opposing sides of the fueding Ambani brohters and ….

    ……

    Scroll down

    —–

    AND MADE 15 CRORES EACH :D

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    @ Mr.Vijay Kumar
    Why this drama of mercy for Kanimozhi on gender basis? We should not forget that Maharani Gayatri Devi spent five months in Tihar jail while Indira Gandhi was the PM during emergency. Though Kanimozhi is known only as Kurunanidhi’s daughter and a lady MP, the Raj Mata, a swantntra party leader , still holds Guiness record for the highest electoral majority by any any one in any Lok Sabha election.
    It looks a pitiable situation for Ramjethmalani appealing to the court for taking a lenient view of her as being a woman. Then congress leader saying the same again after meeting Kurunanidhi. Why the different standards in our set up?
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Anand

    Knowing the present generation of women a bit I have a feeling SOME (not all) love to take the benefits of the 18th century and also of the 21st century. When it suits them they become businesswomen, lawyers and IAS officers.

    But when the chips are down, suddenly they want to be MAA, behen aur biwi :D

    Kani Mozhi has no right to calim protection as a woman if she has commited all the crimes of taking kickabcks and causing a loss of 1,76,000 crores to other Maa, Behan and Biwis…

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Vijay Kumar
    Thanks for ur response.

    Yesterday, I had a good opportunity to attend a lecture session by Dr. Subramanian Swami here in chandigarh. It was an interesting lecture when he said that Mrs. Sonia Gandhi is like “Vishkanya” in the country who is eating the roots of the country in a slow action. He said that he has personal knowledge of her having a deposit of one Lakh crore rupees in banks in Switzerland. He further added that if Govt of India . pledges this money to the nation, he is prepared to give further details. of the account and the name of the bank.Do you think Mr. Gandhi is going to file a defamation suit against Dr. swami?
    May be if that was not enough, Mr. Anne Hazare has openly declared that our PM is good but his remote control(Mrs. Sonia Gandhi) is not good for the country.
    One can imagine the contempt with which the people of the country hold Mrs. Sonia Gandhi, though she happens to be the President of the Grand Old Party in the country.
    Regards
    BNA

  • rajiv

    ———————————————————————————————————-
    What should be India’s respone to Headley trial : By B raman
    ———————————————————————————————————–

    A careful study of the proceedings of the trial against Rana since it started on May 23 would indicate a two-pronged strategy by the FBI:

    Encouraging Headley to testify in detail regarding the role of the ISI and the LET without holding back any thing in order to satisfy India and convince it that there would be no attempt to cover up the role of the ISI.
    Not exercising pressure on Pakistan to arrest the persons named by Headley and to hand them over to the FBI in order to spare any embarrassment to the Government of Pakistan.
    Will the second prong of the FBI’s strategy succeed by sparing the Government of Pakistan of any embarrassment because of the disclosures of Headley regarding the involvement of the ISI? This would depend upon the way the prosecution lawyer and the Judge sum up the proceedings for the benefit of the jury when all the testimonies are over. If they focus only on the evidence relevant to the charges against Rana, they might succeed. On the contrary, if they also focus on the charges against the absconding accused being tried in absentia, it might not.

    What are the action options for India?

    Draw the attention of the Terrorism Monitoring Committee of the UN Security Council in terms of the UNSC Resolution No 1373 passed after the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the US and ask for action against the ISI for violation of the UNSC resolution. The UNSC Resolution has re-affirmed the principle established by the General Assembly in its declaration of October 1970 (resolution 2625 (XXV)) and reiterated by the Security Council in its resolution 1189 (1998) of 13 August 1998, namely that “every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts.”The testimony in the case against Rana has clearly shown a serious violation of this Resolution by the ISI which should be held accountable. Indian action may not succeed because of a possible Chinese veto in support of Pakistan, but that should not deter us from bringing the evidence to the notice of the UNSC Monitoring Committee.

    Insist that the US should treat the case relating to the involvement of the ISI in the Mumbai blasts on par with the involvement of the Libyan intelligence in an act of terrorism directed against a Pan Am aircraft (the famous Lockerbie case) in 1988, which resulted in the death of all the passengers and crew, many of them US nationals. The US insisted on the trial of the Libyan intelligence officers involved and the payment of compensation to the families of the victims by the Libyan Government. It succeeded on both counts. The Government of India should immediately set up a task force to study how the US handled the Lockerbie case and follow the same procedure in this case. The relatives of the victims—whether Indian or foreign nationals— should be closely associated with the work of the Task Force. The Government of India should insist on the trial of the ISI officers involved before the Chicago court and the payment of compensation to the relatives of the victims by the Government of Pakistan.

    Re-energise our case for the declaration of Pakistan as a state-sponsor of international terrorism by the US State Department on the basis of the evidence adduced in the trial. The State Department will avoid doing it as it did after the Mumbai blasts of March 1993, but that should not deter us from taking up the case against Pakistan vigorously once again.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv,

    Ultimately the Headley trial can become our powerful weapon, in case we have a strong foreign Minsiter willing to punch. Otherwise nothing will happen.

    Maybe time to say goodbye to SM Krishana ??

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Vijay
    Indian foreign policy is paralyzed. They have no clue how to use the Headley revealations. Its like India does not want to embaress pak isi/army/government too much because we want the dialogue process with the guys who perpetrated 26/11. So India is keping its eyes shut, eares plugged and mouth sealed , like Gandhi’s monkeys, as far as 26/11 trial is concerned.

    Pakistanis must be wondering, what kind of attack would invite retaliation, if neither Kargil, nor parliament atack, nor Mumbai attack invited any retaliation from India. Pakistan is almost getting tired of trying to pick a fight with India.

    My opinion is that India persue the line of action that USA/UK persued on lockerbie bombing by Libyan agents. India would have law and precedent and facts on its side and keep pak/isi cornered in defending charges. Its a grat opportunity but is going begging. USA cannot do everything for us. USA has in fact thrown enough meat(facts) at India , so that India can persue chargs against ISI in court.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv,

    Right you are !

    The goras are throwing an opportunity at India. THey would not do it when people say died in the Delhi bombings or the Parliament attacks. Here since American lives are involved, we can extract the maximum benefits.

    However someone wiht a longterm visions and balls has to man the foreign office. I am not an extrovert in real life as much as I am on the keyboard. BUt I know a strategy planner can be a quiet guy, but the marketing guy or the Foreign Minister today has to be a bit of a showman and a charismatic personality at that. In the present circustances, the COngress shouid shift Kapil Sibal to the Foreign MInister or even make Anand Sharma as the FM.

    Somone who can fight consistently as this opportunity for putting Paksitan on the mat as well as getting internationsl law to hammer it wo’t come again so easily.

    BUt somewhere I feel, we will lose this in exchange of a kabab and candle party at Wagah …

    Manohar_T Reply:

    @ Rajiv

    It is early days, the trial is still under way. One should not expect Government of India to respond to every statement/revelation. Wait for his testimony to be complete, which can be challenged and some of his admissions can be proved wrong. After that, I am sure, there would be an appropriate response. In any case, whatever he has revealed is already known to us.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Rajiv/Vijay

    Headley et al – all are academic issues. World does not need any more proof about Pakistan’s involvement- be it at satte level, or individual rogue officer level or whatever..

    US is well aware of every thing. However, they need Pakistan help as long as they are in Afghanistan. Us is wella aware of the mortal danger posed by LeT and other Pakistani terrorist outfits.

    For a change, may be these outfits are now more focused on US than on India.

    India can take unilateral action; but it does not possess enough wherewithal for this. It is better to forge a covert/overt partnership with US, UK, France who all are affected by this existentialist issue.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    NO Gopi

    There is a difference here. We Indians know the extent of Paksitani funding of terror and the training they give to suicide bombers.

    The Americans are just tasting this pastry. Since Pakistanis survive on American alms, we should use this opportunity to make them punish their slaves…

    As far as Europe goes, it only looks up to US to take the action. UK is like a retird colonol wishfully thinking about its glory days, while France does not have the muscle to do anything big…

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Vijay, yes; the key is that there should be action (and may be talks in parallel). This is the right time to take action on Pakistan.. However, as long as they have nukes,a nd have leaders and generals who do not care abt Pakistan (they all have money slashed away in foreign accounts), any action we take will be albelled Sovereignty violation and they will use nukes. They do not have anything to lose and they do not care about world opinion.

    The only solution is the removal of nukes, and then the constant monitoring that they do not create any new bombs.

    Whoever we can get on this effort – US definitely, and any otehr (including Israel) – should be coopted. Paksitan is going through a huge transformation (from a negative perspective), competing and cooperating jehadists will take control eventually because they all have military support. It looks like that the death of bin Laden is hastening this process. Look at the seizure of the Pakistani naval abse in Karachi. That proves even army is out of the loop.

    CIA/RAW etc should put their heads together to identify who controls nukes, codes needed to acftivate, etc. It should have been done yesterday. The nukes in Pakistan are the biggest threat to India and US.

  • Gopi Thomas

    All,

    The cover arfticle in this week’s Economist (May 21-27) is about the “World’s Most Dangerous border” , the border between India and Pakistan. Ample writings on Paks internal instability, military control, dangers of nukes in the hands of jehadis et al.

    The same issue also covers the state elections just completed; with one version of an analysis – “Unpicking lessosn from these elections is notoriously tricky. An optimistic analysis is that Indian voters are growing less loyal to parties or leaders who claim a following based on who they are (through their caste affiliation, say), rather than what they do. voters look less tolerantly on rulers who perform badly. They have returned incumbents – such as Nitish kumar’s gopvernment in Bihar, a poor nortehrn state, last year- who are good managers and bring better schools, hospitals.., or who bring stability, as in Assam. By contarst , poorly performing rulers, eg, in West Bengal and Tamil NAau have been sent packing”.

    Whatever complaints we have with politicians and parties, every new election, processwise is better than the last election – gone are the days of booth capturing; gone are the days when powerful chief ministers like Karunannidhi could control election ourtcomes. The electorate is becoming mature, aspirations of better lives for them and the betterment of t6he country are reflected in their voting.

    Withso many problems still to tackle; we are on a good platform, one with 9% economic growth, a country where its people want better lives and vote accordingly, where people demonstartes everyday ,a s MJ Akbar wrote in his “Tinderbox” “the idea of India is stronger than the Indian”. (he also states in that book that the idea of Pakistan is weaker than the Pakistani”).

    Growth, vibrancy, “can do” attitudes, high aspirations and means to accomplish them etc on one side – despair, depravation, violence, annihilation, etc on the other side of the border. When they talk about sovereignty, they are talking not about the country’s or people’s spvereignty; they are talking about the army’s sovereignty. They do not see bin Laden living in the country, his alqueda and connected terrorists committing attacks on their mosques and bases as attack on sovereignty, but they do see nabbing him away by US as an attack on sovereignty. (although bin LAdens removal should reduce the internal attacks there)

    We are living in perilous times. All indications are Pakistan will disintegrate. Too many issues, too many entanglements and collusions, the odds are against them coming out whole. Many writers in this blog advocate a “better defence” capability for india. Will some more army divisions do? Will another hundred nuclear warheads do (reports are that Pakistan has accelerated its nuclear warhead construction, now they are fourth nuclear power in the world!)

    Pakistan, in its desperation, will use nuclear bombs. Additionally, before they get to that stage, Jehadis will get hold of these, and will use them in Kashmir , mumbai wherever. These are two sure, almost 100% probabilities. The uncertainty is who will use first, or whether both will happen.

    I hope there is a US clandestine activity to denuke them; I hope we are actively participating in that. I also hope life loving Pakistanis are also particpating in that. Anything else – such as build up defence capabilities etc is only a part of a “suspender and belt” strategy, and not a defence strategy.

    There are only two choices – either denuke them, or commit to a “nation building” bringing up institutions, civilian controls, “demilitarization”, dismantling terrorist networks etc.. Denuking seems much easier.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Gopi;
    Very well said. Not many people are realizing the danger this subcontinent is slipping into. Indian politicians have no time to tackle pakistan and pakistani masses have no means to tackle their Army. It is said, that pakistani Army is the only Army, which has got a country. Rest of the countries have their Army. These desperadose( Jihadists) are as dangerous to pakistan as they are to world. Sooner this world understands this better it is. These people think of dyeing in order to reach to 72 virgins. No this is not word play, many of them really believe and my contention is that they should be hunted, as you are hunting a vermin. Again, not said lightly, your future probably, but next to next generation’s future, surely, hinges upon, actions taken now.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Gopi Sir, welcome back. your lines are brill- ” There are only two choices – either denuke them, or commit to a “nation building” bringing up institutions, civilian controls, “demilitarization”, dismantling terrorist networks etc.. Denuking seems much easier.”

    there is black humour in your conclusion abt the easier option !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    also just read your quote from MJ Akbar – ” wrote in his “Tinderbox” “the idea of India is stronger than the Indian ”
    profound

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Rizwan,
    M J Alkbar writs well. My favourite columnists on Pakistan affairs are Khaled Ahmed of Friday Times ( Pak ) and Najam Sethi.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Rizwan-

    Pakistan has many sensible columnists as evidenced by the writers in Dawn Newspaper. However, I do not know if these are translated in urdu and widely distributed in other local newspapers there.

    Najam Sethi is quite good. Nadim Pascha is good and hilarious. Cyril Almeda (may be the last Christian there!) is quite good too.

    The real issue with Pakistan is whether anything positive can be done with it, how long it will take, and how to take care of the situation until whatever is the end state stabilizes – which, if at all successful, is a multi decade experiment. May be all countries should join together in this endeavour. At the same time, there has to be a covert operation to denuke. The army and jhadists will hold the world and India with “gun at our head” as long as the nukes are there. And I for a scond do not believe when Pak says that teh nukes are well-controlled and no terrorist will eb able to get to that. It is only a hope. Hope is not a strategy, for them and for the rest

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    gopi jee all pakistani jounralists and anchors are good.they all talk reason.general people of pakistan too are friendly,consider india as their role model.fanatics are the products of occupation.whose brothers and family members are mascared in drone attacks daily.some urdu media has jingostic tone but they have no taker.common man wants peace.i recommed u to read s.akbar.he is no less to our mj akbar.whom i am reading from last 20 years.u sanghis read propaganda.punjabis of both side of border have great lust for life.hence border should be open,especially for younger generation.
    let zoinists leave this area things will come to normal.america has almost accepted defeat.now negotiating with talibans.war has swallowed it perpetuator.time is with propagators of peace.but we have to fight their satanic cousins in india.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Gopi

    Right at every count. The horror of nukes getting into LeT hands should scare the pants of every Indian. They may not be able to fire them at the US, but India is close by.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    May 28th, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Mishraji;
    I feel you are saying this just to instigate us. are you still in Hyde Park mode. Nuclear Bomb with such an irresponsible state?? Do not you realize that what it has done to the psyche of that nation? It has simply hastened its end by making it mad and as it was said somewhere that god make them made first, when god wants to destroy them.
    Had not Bhabha died in plane crash( strongly feel, that was a sabotage, still ,do not know, whether, our top rank scientist get maximum covert security or Not) India would have been fifth nuclear power long time back, as India was more advanced in that technology than China. World would have accepted as such, and in place of china,India would be in security council as 5th member. Very foolishly, Nehru recommended china and withdrawing India’s nomination.. Is there a limit to foolishness.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    tell methe name of one scientist with international recognition.after 1947 no noble prize came to india.
    We are producing sub-standard doctors, engineers, lawyers and other professionals. There is not a single educational institution in India that is par-excellence. The chairman of Medical Council of India (MCI) is in jail. I got to know the condition of some medical colleges. The lesser that is said, the better”, said Karnataka Governor H.R. Bharadwaj. (Times of India, June 26, 2010).

    Brahmin speaks Truth

    The education sector lays the foundation for a society’s forward march.

    Governor H.R. Bharadwaj is a former Union Law Minister and top Brahmin of the country. A great quality of the Brahmin is they never criticise themselves, particularly the education system which is their 100% monopoly.

    But Bharadwaj says India’s entire education system has collapsed. There is no village in India with a functioning primary school. The ruling class (read Brahminists) want to keep the Bahujans (SC/ST/BCs and Muslims etc.) totally illiterate. Bharadwaj knows all this but in a state of excitement at a Bangalore function truth burst out of his mouth unconsciously.

    Iyer reveals where money is going

    There is yet another Brahmin (a Tamil Nadu Iyer), an ex-Union Minister who was a former diplomat who also spoke the truth which will not be liked by his jatwalas:

    Bangalore: The UN human development index for India was 134 in 1984 and it remained at 134 even in 2007, despite so much of being spent on development, said Mani Shankar Iyer, former Union minister for Panchayat Raj.

    The centre spent a nominal Rs. 7,500 crore on the social sector and the poor in 1984, but by 2007, it went up to Rs. 1,20,000 crore though the human development index remained the same.

    We are now among the top four nations having dollar-billionaires and dollar-millionaires now.

    But there are nearly 836 million people who are earning Rs. 20 per day, which is lower than the NREGA pay scale. There has been a regression in terms of panchayat raj which was supposed to take us to development.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Guys
    if you want to keep pakinder away from this blog, please do not mention the two words , 72 and virgins and never mention them in the same sentence. It excites him.
    ( sorry I had to mention those two words, but thats my first and last mention of it )

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    instead of 72 we can say 75
    instead of virgins, we can say ‘yet to be penetrated’ girls
    but will this P.A.K.I scum stop salivating at mere reading about these numbers and ‘descriptions’?

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    doc Pankaj- never heard of that one- ” ,India would be in security council as 5th member. Very foolishly, Nehru recommended china and withdrawing India’s nomination.. Is there a limit to foolishness ”

    Are you sure ??

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    100%. sure.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan

    This was in the late fifties when John Foster Dulles was the American foreign Minister. Dulles was a communist baiter and Nehru the socialist felt that Mao and Chou were better leftists.

    In the height of that era, India gave up the option….

    And the west co=opted in Taiwan which they said represented the Chinese people.

    After Nixon made up with China in 70’s Red China replafced Taiwan at the UN.

    This was a huge opportunity lost. Maybe YOU shoudl do some research and write a book on this. Our pro Nehru Khandan pressmen never let this come out. :D

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    This was a huge opportunity lost. Maybe YOU shoudl do some research and write a book on this. Our pro Nehru Khandan pressmen never let this come out

    vijay during those days america was more interested in stopping the flow of communism in south east.moreover india was never considered globally at par with china.with gdp aroud 10 trillion dollars no2 in the world and resrve of foreign exchange and gold 2.62 trillion dollars,biggest in the world.we are around 10-11 percent of their economy. brhmnst are planning surrender to secure their tommorow.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rizwaan,

    kabhie asli history bhi padhaa karo. Mere JNU history will only take you upto Hyde Park.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Vijay you say ” In case of Barkha, it is especially sad as so much of India loved her ”

    I hope I will not be banned from this blog when I say that- around the age of 15-16- when my hormones were wild, I kind of fancied her. One of my classmates at DPS used to say- ” burey kaam ke liye, buri nahin ”

    now come on guys, forget her fall from grace, but she was hot once !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan

    She always looked all teeth to me. But…

    Teenage crushes… the heart has its own reasons :D

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rizwan,

    Sorry I was being cruel to Barkha!! Well she did make me blush in 1999…
    But in 2011 after hearing her conversations in 2g, my hair stand up in… exasperation …

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rizwan/ Vijay;
    In the days, when I used to live in Motibagh,Delhi, Prannoy Roy, was a slipper wearing, journo. Sidhhart Basu and Vinod Dua were struggling journos. These people were my contemporaries and I have seen them from close quarter. In my days. heart throbes were Minu Talwar and Salama Sultana. Barkha Dutt is a dud, as far as sex appeal is concerned.

  • rajiv

    Manmohan’s response to Headley trial.
    —————————————————————–

    Self-confessed Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist David Coleman Headley’s ongoing court testimony — in which he has implicated individuals allegedly connected to Pakistan’s intelligence agency in the November 2008 terror attack on Mumbai — has not brought out anything India did not already know, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Saturday. He also said he would continue to use the bilateral dialogue process to press home the demand that Islamabad take action to curb the activities of jihadi groups and would also mobilise world opinion to ensure the “terror machinery” in Pakistan is effectively controlled.

    Speaking to reporters on his way back from a week-long visit to Africa, Dr. Singh said that even though the Headley trial had not brought out anything new, his government would study the proceedings once it was over. But he gave no indication that a rethink of the current dialogue-based policy towards Pakistan was on the cards. “It goes without saying that we must use every possible opportunity to talk to Pakistan and convince them that terror as an instrument of state policy is simply not acceptable to people in the civilised world as a whole. And as Pakistan’s neighbour, we have great worries about the terror machine that is still intact [there]”.

    The Prime Minister said India had to work on two separate fronts. “One, is the bilateral negotiations with Pakistan. We must convince the Pakistani leadership that it is in their own interest that they must help us in tackling the problem of terror in our region, and that those jihadi groups who target India [are] … effectively curbed and dealt with”. This was an ongoing process and India must use every opportunity it gets to drive home this point, he said. The second front was global: “The world has seen as never before that the epicentre of terror is in our neighbourhood, they appreciate India’s worry, and it should be our effort to mobilise world opinion to ensure that this terror machine which operates in our neighbourhod in Pakistan is brought under effective control”.

    In the wake of the recent terrorist attack on a naval base in Karachi, Dr. Singh said he hoped that Pakistan would now recognise that “the monster of terrorism which they unleashed at one time is hurting them as much as it can hurt our country”. The more he saw what was happening there, he added, the more convinced he was that Pakistan’s leaders “must now wake up and recognise that the terror machine that they have, or at least some elements of that country have patronized, is not working to anybody’s advantage”.

    Asked whether he was considering making a visit to Pakistan this year, the Prime Minister said he had not made up his mind yet. “But I have always believed that good relations between India and all its neighbours are very desirable and essential for us in South Asia to realise our development ambitions”.

    ———————————————————————————
    conclusion : business as usual.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rajiv,

    this is the same mindset that said, “Pakistan is a victim of terror” at Sharm-el-Shaikh.

    Knowing Moon Moon Singh’s single track foreign policy and lost-in-the-woods government, this was only to be expected. I am sure, after saying these few words, he would have promptly gone to sleep.

    [Reply]

  • Manohar_T

    Some of the posters have expressed their apprehensions about Pakistan actually using Nukes. IMO, I doubt they ever will, never mind the posturing and the threatening noises. Moreover, I think their nukes are under strict watch by the USA, given the technologies at their disposal and would nip in the bud any intended hanky-panky.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Manohar

    This is living in denial of another sort. Do you think the Taliban is posturing when they claim they are finally going to rule Pakistan and control its arsenal?

    Good thinking.

    [Reply]

    Manohar_T Reply:

    There is not living in denial. I agree, Taliban is not posturing. The point is whether USA would allow the Taliban or any other militant to take over the nukes. Nuclear weapons are no AK-47s. Even in the worst case scenario, you need technological expertise to handle them, does the Taliban have such people? I am wondering.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Manohar

    Technology can be misused very badly. There would alwasy be ro0gue scientists and armymen who share the Talibani vision. And they would help. Don’t llive in a folls paradise that the Tailban is a donkey and camel riding illiterate. Probably AQ Khan is also Taliban of another kind…

    Manohar_T Reply:

    I am not living in fool’s paradise. The point is that the USA, Europe, China and others would have made sure that they do not fall in the wrong hands. In spite of the public posturing due to the issue of Pakistan’s sovereignty, I have a feeling that the USA must be exercising some sort of control over the Nukes and would also have contingency plans to make sure that the terrorists/militants cannot get hold of them.

    Of course, there is the very large possibility of rogue scientists and engineers ready to do the dirty work. In the worst case scenario, there would be considerable time lag to make them operational and ready to fire, enough time for the world to neutralise the threat. The world is not going to sit and watch.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Living in fool’s paradise and indulging in wishful thinking that if America wishes Pakistani pigs would fly.

  • Pankaj#1

    Mahesh;
    Sorry again. first half is posted above. Now, when this society a created an Army, a very privilaged Army, with a cause as conquest of India and turning it into an Islamic nation, you have a big trouble on your hands. Believe me, kashmir, Hyderabad and junagadh has nothing to do with it. Water head in kashmir has nothing to do with it. These are the problems, which you can sort out, if there is will for sorting them out, on negotiation table. But, these will not be solved as, rai son d etre, for pakistan and its Army is Conquest of India. Hans ke liya hai pakistan. lad ke laingai hindustan. A sane person would have laughed at this idea but are we talking to a sane entity? No sir, the whole society has changed there. Asma jahangir and her ilks may not be found in even hundreds. Population is somethinfg like 180 millions.So what India should do? Is there an easy answer for it, none. Now what, succumb to this mad person, unlikely, try to make it see sense, yes that is possible. will talks make them see things, unlikely. will unacceptable punishment will make them see, possible. Either be ready to this solution or keep on pretending that with Ahimsa and truth, you will convince them. so that was the historical perspective. coming to present time, it is in Afghanistan that india and pakistan will have real conflict?. No sir, conflict is thee since last 6 decades at least. pakistan has usurped Afghan land by claiming durand line as dejure.. it has to return FATA to Afghanistan and if Afghanistan thinks that its interests are best served by following friendship with India, then, pakistan has no business to feel insecure, and if it does, that is its problem. How come we should change our friends, if pakistan feel uneasy about it??
    more after your posts. BTW, Have you ever had a chance to work with pakistani professionals, i mean professionals, like docotrs, lawyers, Cas etc and not labour camps of middle east , where from, even a normal person will start talking like Ravi and tajinder. I am sure both of them from there only.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Pankaj,
    Clearly we are dis-agreeing , Please allow me to articulate our dis-agreements – though.
    While we both agree on excess militarisation of Pakistani establishmnet , you are saying that this borne out of desire to conquest India. This is where I differ sir. Me thinks , the so called conquest sentiment echoed by various quarters in Pakistani establishment is mostly posturing. The large bueraucratic structure called defence establishment in Pakistan has used India for strengthening it’s grip on the polity , for it’s own gains. In other words – Plain Vanilla Corruption , Nepotism , Dictatorship with a polished posturing. Furthermore, early years of “War OnTerror” did see the Military Bureaucracy gaining in importance. It stopped being fun once the tribal area came under focus and retaliations from Pakistani Taliban . A situation further complicated by co-lateral damage inflicted by drones, strained relationship with CIA and other U.S. arms . Clearly they got much more than they had bargained for.
    Speaking about resolution …. well , I am clueless as well. IMHO, though, the armed conflict will only serve to exacerbate the siuation further.
    About Afghanistan – well Pakistan may have gobbled up part of it , but it is only recently that Afghanistan has emerged as a stage for Indo-Pak conflict. I am not sure yet about the nature and reason of conflict except for a vague feeling that Chinese angle may somehow be at work here.
    I had my own experiences with Pakistani citizens – once in U.S. on couple of my trips when a guy from Paksitan would do integration of components supplied by us. The person – a very soft spoken one – almost steadfastly avoided any political discussion related to Indo-Pak. Only once – during an informal get-together with his family , did his wife subtly complained about her being taunted by her Indian friends about the situation back in Pakistan. Both me and her husband were a little embarrassed – he actually appeared more so as he cut the topic and diverted it elsewhere. Another of my experience was with a Pakistani surgeon who had visited a medical conference in Mumbai. We had our own stall exhibiting a software add-on for one of the low-cost E.C.G. devices. He appeared fiarly interested but later realised that the trade restrictions won’t allow him to buy our stuff . Perhaps we could route it via chinese companies – he suggested jokingly. Nothing dramatic in both the case .
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    EEEEEKS !! The TUR-D has floated out of the WC !! :D The ****-d has floated out !!

    Let’s just flush him ….

    Whooosh !! :D :D

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv and Gopi

    Gopi raised the issue of nuetralising their nukes. In my opinion this can only happen if the US goes it all alone or the UN sends global forcs into Pakistan to nuetralise it.

    as Rajiv pointed out, our PM is living in a dreamy state of inaction on this problem. THIS HUGE HUGE PROBLEM WHICH MAY DESTROY THE SUB CONTINENT.

    We really do need a more proactive Foreign Minister and office. Every opportunity which comes should be used to expose Pakistan to the world and the danger it poses to the planet. It is in this context, the Headley trial gives us opportunity.

    As it is the US has already started equating the LeT with the Queeda. We need to stir the pot. But then we need this strong foreign office which perfoms for INDIA WITH A LONG TERM VISION….

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Vijay

    Agree with the need for leveraging/magnifying every opportunity we get to increase the global pressure on pakistan – a strong, pragmatic external affairs ministry will definitely help..May be we should move away from “party people” for positions like External affairs, Defence, Education and nominate the best political leader for these positions irrespective of political parties, as long a stheir vision is strong India.. Why cannot Raman, Subramania Swamy, Chandrababu etc be nominated in Congress cabinet????

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Gopi Thomas, Vijay kumar,

    it is a great tragedy that Pakistan has a huge constituency in India, from the Moon-Moon Singh downwards to Dr. Mishra, who refuse to see the disaster next door waiting to explode anyday. We are imagining things like Pakistan’s civil society, good Taliban, saint LeT, harmless Tajender-the list is endless-in order to hide our inability to step out of the state of denial. We are blaming Pakistan for living in denial. Actually, it is we who are living in denial.

    There is, therefore, an urgent need to woo the US in an all out effort, to persuade them to denuke Pakistan or better still, nuke them through and through. We can negotiate for awarding $50 billion worth of military contracts, to keep the US congress on our side.

    Gopi,

    Raman should first learn to run his local panchayat. Swamy is an enemy, Naidu is Xanadu, as far as the congress is concerned. In all probability, if a wigged Krishna is to be replaced, they would rather appoint a wheel-chaired Karunanidhi as our FM.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy and Gopi

    Shenoy is right. The US only acts wehre its financial interests are involved. In case we had placed the orders for F-22 instead of the much inferior Eurofighter, our clout would have been better.

    As far as Swamy goes, he is a misguided missile. Good at times. Otherwise always getting into problems with everyone.

    In my opinion, Raman is someone who has consistently read the terror situation in Pakistan. His inputs would be good in whatever capapcity he is used by the INdian government….

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Dr Pankaj, you take exception with me- ‘…Mishraji; I feel you are saying this just to instigate us. are you still in Hyde Park mode …’
    I think I was misunderstood, of course I bloody hate the idea o Pak with the bomb. I am merely saying, no one in the seventies had either the power or the foresight to stop Pak acquiring the bomb. I will be very honest – I inwardly gloated when we did Pokharan in ?1974 and did the big one in ?1998.
    My satisfaction, as I am sure that of all Indians, DID NOT LAST EVEN 2 WEEKS. Pak exploded the bomb in 2 weeks despite Clinton phoning Nawaz Sharif repeatedly.
    That is what I meant- who is India, or for that matter USA to try and stop the Islamic bomb. Most Indians have too low an opinion of Pakistan’s capablities- hate them but recognise the fact that they are 180 million, and have had close cooperation with China and Korea.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    This is the classic club mentality- a lot of Indians are desperate to get into the west. And once there, they are dismissive of others aspirations for the same- yaar, India is not so bad, yahaan aane ki kya zarroorat hai ?

    Same with the nuclear club- yes, it is alright for me to have it, but absolutely not on for the others to have it too- sorry guys, you DONT NEED it. Sorry guys, life does not work like that. I predicct at least 5 more countries will get the ‘atum bomb’ in the next 20 years

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    You are wrong here. More the merrier for me here. No insecurity on my part for any Indian coming here.
    And, if, I do not like pakistan, well, I will wish it not to have it, what is wrong here. Result, you are seeing, under the Nuclear bomb, it is openly, subverting indian state. Indians did not destroy them in making was India’s weakness, and it is paying for that.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Pankaj, not wishing Pak to have a bomb is a universal Indian feeling, and is justified. I am merely saying -”This smug feeling- its okay for me to have the ‘bumb’ but not alright for the insect lower down in the pecking order to have one, extends from USA down to us.”’

    The cat is out of the bag, more countries will get nukes, USA and Russia can go stuff themselves.
    Denuking Pakistan, as Gopi Thomas points out will be an exceedingly difficult task. 100 nukes- where are they ? Where is the delivery system ? Pakistan was okay about Osama being snuffed out, he was past his sell by date, but by God they will put up a fight if anyone tries to get the nukes.

    You know what the Pakistanis call them- THE CROWN JEWELS- dekha jai to becharon ke paas aur kuch hai bhi nahin

    shan Reply:

    Panditji , is so limited in his reach. AMERICAN SPY SATELLITES KNOW THE EXACT LOCATION OF NUKES.there are specific parameter and signs which one looks for in analysing these photographs
    be enlightened
    Wednesday, 15 March, 2000, 15:51 GMT
    Pakistan nukes put online

    A satellite image of missile garages at the Sargodha facility
    A US policy group has published satellite photographs said to show Pakistan’s nuclear facilities on its website, just days ahead of President Clinton’s visit to the region.

    The high resolution images … show details … previously known only to the secret intelligence world

    Federation of American Scientists
    The Federation of American Scientists (Fas), a non-profit group which campaigns for nuclear non-proliferation, said it was making available images of Pakistan’s weapons facilities “previously known only to the secret intelligence world”.

    Since last autumn, when the Colorado-based Space Imaging Inc. launched a satellite that can take pictures nearly as close to the ground as spy satellites do, satellite images of strategic objects have become more widely available.
    ews.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/678163.stm

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I know denuking Pak is going to be difficult. But, is there any alternative? A volatile state with too maby terrorist groups – either the govt or the terrorist groups will use it. Generals do not care about their civilians; terrorists do not care about any aftermath.

    We can have the biggest army, armamenets; so what?

    The nukes are like a democles sword on us, on US.

    Our options against Pak terrorists are quite limited as long as they have nukes,a nd the country is governed by who knows whom….Mehran base was attacked for three days by terrorists.. Imagine what will they do if tey got hold of nulkes..

    World knowws Pak is a bad actor.. But they can go doing this because they have nukes..Plus they backmail others that terrorists will get hold of them if the govt is weakened..

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    I am sorry to say that you have been thouroughly become British. You are not seeing that it is coming to a crunch time. If not in our life time, next generation has to tackel this. It is you Britishers that has given these Islamist ” Hausala” and bravado to do things, what they are doing today. may be you had not travelled to UK, when I had left UK. These bipedal beasts understand only basic things, higher intelligence is beyond them. British law has allowed them to talk of Muslim Britain, in near future, Fools of the heighest order. We, in North America, do not suffer from this diseas. We would like to dispatch them to jannat, if they wish for it.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Well at one point london was referred as LONDONISTAN by the french

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Dr mishra

    The reverse brain drain is on Dr Mishra. In the last one month I have met three engineering clollege classmates who have dumped the UK for India.

    I think India should shine and meet the world eye to eye, The reasons which drove people to the West earleier are disappearing fast, The UK I know is no longer hot– except of course the pubs.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    on a lighter note, glad to see Vijay and Rizwan confessing to Barkha Dutt’s sex appeal ‘ bure kaam ke liye buri nahin ‘
    Gentlemen behave. BTW is she single, just curious

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    If B Dutt is good for s..g , then payal rohatgi is apsara. B Dutt’s waist circumferance is two thirds her height. She didn’t do too badly, divorced from first husband, current husband is a kashmiri muslim , ex chairman of J&K bank, ex because recently booted out by omar abdullah.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Tajender fool;
    You have no idea what you are dealing with now. Thought I will never reply to you. Bloody fool, taking cover of ” Opressed people,” playing your dirty tricks. I have more concern for down trodden, than you, trouble monger. Be aware, you do not have much time. Do not try to hide behind cover of opressed and victims. Do you have any plan to bring your people to rise in life? None. will destroy this, will destroy that. nothing else.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    better awnser my above blog.this is not awnser this is abuse and advise.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    ————————————————————————
    Denuking Pak : Lets get rid of some notions.
    ————————————————————————

    1. de-nuking pak, desirable or not, is not possible by military means.

    The war-heads and nuclear material is voluminous, well dispersed , protected and its not like Osama that can be plucked from Kayani’s bedroom. So lets forget about anyone de-nuking pakistan by military means. Let pak suffer from the paronia and lets just watch and enjoy.

    Nuclear weapons for Pakistan is like a ugly man who has married a hot bimbo, that he suspects neighbours and others are eyeing. He cannot sleep at night because he has to stay awake, guarding his bimbo. He cannot consummate his marriage and frustration is growing and he is suffering from all kinds of diseases and is suspected to be suffereing from erectile dysfunction ( lack of soverginity ).

    In a way, Pak nuclear weapons are good for India, if India wants to see a weak, poor state that spends most of its money on making and protecting the bomb ( upkeep of his bimbo ) and has nothing left to feed and educate his children.

    Pak will be de-nuked only under following two circumstances.
    1. It realizes it cannot afford them and they are of no use to it, except for ego.
    Remember India has no territorial claims against pakistan, has returned territory won in wars and is happy with status quo. Uzbekistan and severel soviet constituent states gave up nuclear weapons.
    However, given paks low IQ rulers, its not likely to happen.

    2. Option two.
    Pak nuke material actually gets stolen by a jihadi group or Pak actually uses the nuke ( either against its own people in baluchistan or waziristan ) or against India or some other country. The resultiing outrage, motivates the international community to de-nuke pakistan .

    We do not know if and when option 1 or 2 would ever occur. So all this talk of denuking pakistan is a waste of time, unless the intent is to make pak more paranoid and not let the ugly man spend some time with his bimbo.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rajiv, you cannot de nuke , but america is under no illusion another 9/11 even a miny version will result in MASSIVE RETRIBUTION , followed by declared a terrorist state, ALSO ATOM BUMB on its own is a dirty bumb , UNLESS THERE IS A DELIVERY SYSTEM.pak missiles cannot reach US.
    So after annihilation of Pak army ,it should not be difficult to NEUTRALISE the nukes.America will showering TOMAHAWKS from Nimitz or whatever
    Similarly there is a very very strong possibility of a conventional war under the nuclear umbrella ,between india and pakistan, should another 26/11 happen

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    You have forgotten Diago Garcia in Indian ocean. Ameica has some assets there.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    I am aware this was leased to US by the Brits. BUT IT IS MAINLY AN AIR BASE.
    for missiles i think it will rely on its warships.Also this is out of reach of pak missiles

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Rajiv, I think you are wrong. While India may be run by weak jhola wala poiticians, the American and Israeli polity and intelligence forces are run by modern assertive leaders- I mean Hilary Clinton has a touch of Indira Gandhi in her.
    Cannot imagine that they do not have plans to denuke Pak in the future. I think Rizwan is right- Obama is stuck in Pak till 2018-20. He would not like to leave till the uranium has become urea.

    Maybe it is intense wishful thinking on my part

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    okay there has been a lot of Barkha bashing going on here, some of it by myself. So see this clip- B interviewing Mushy- she does give him a tough time over LET
    http://www.punjabrang.com/forum/f81/pervez-musharraf-crush-barkha-dutt-indian-tv-journalist-ndtv-14757/
    AND SHE DOES NOT LOOK TOO BAD EITHER- as rizwan said- bure kaam ke liye buri nahin (Vinodji, pl close your ears )

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra, UK Reply:

    Pankaj, Minu Talwar and Salma Sultana I remember well- newscasters on my b/w television- cant remember if it was Dyanora or Texla, ha

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Met Salma Sultan a few years back. I think it was 2004. Well her glory days had gone. But just to keep your heart throbbing, the style and elegance was still there….

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, me too.

    I knew personally the by now long forgotten Sheela Chaman, who too was a so so news reader, but in person she was a beautiful lady and very graceful and gracious. She was a customer of my bank branch.

  • jai vaidya

    Shan, stop snipping at my heels. if it was stale news, you should have brought it to the fore on this blog.

    Tejinder, the Iranian nuclear peogram is not aimed at the U.S.A., China ,India or even Israel, It is the counter to the perceived Saudi Pak Sunni bomb, Please read Valy Nassr

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @VAIDYA, i had posted at around the same time as the one i am referring it as follows,but I can’t seem to find it, however this proves my point
    D Mishra, UK says:
    February 14, 2011 at 4:26 am

    This is the kind of thing I was talking about, from today’s Daily Mail. Dispatches is a good investigative programme on British TV.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356361/Shame-Britains-Muslim-schools-Secret-filming-shows-pupils-beaten.html

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~~ :D :D ~~ LET US NOT LIVE IN A FOOL’S WORLD… ABOUT TALIBAN AND THE NUKES ~ :D :D ~~

    The innocent indian in us, which is itching to be fooled may be making the biggest mistake in the 5000 yr old history of India, by believeing that the Nukes will be inefftective in Taliban hands.

    Only yesterday a Taliban spokesman said that they intend to take over Pakistan and get the nukes under thier control.

    Contrast this to what some people in this blog who are still innocent.

    Or to a downright dunce called mani Aiyar who proudly announced on TV that “he would go laughing to his funeral pyre as Taliban will never never never get the nukes….”

    We first have to dismantle the image of Taliaban we have in our minds. It is not just a camel or a donkey riding illiterate goon muttering “death to infidels” all the time. The Taliban is a;sp AQ Khan and rogue armymen who want to destroy the world.

    Even educated technosavvy Mohammad Atta and Bin Laden were Taliban.

    So let us not fool ourselves….

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vijay, absolutely true , when taliban says IT WILL TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY , they meant “their people”.ALL YOU NEED IS ANOTHER MILITARY TAKE OVER BY A ZIA UL HAQ CLONE . with advisers like HAMID GUL framing the policy.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,
    Generally speaking – launching of Nukes is a very involved exercise involving multitude levels of authorisations and controls. Hollywood has been a very prominent culprit in promoting these notions of “hit the red button and launch the nukes” varieties. Let us not complement them further. To give a very very loose analogy – it is a lot like somebody handing you an micro-electronic chip without any documentation. You just can’t make head or tail out of it as long as you don’t know what signals are expected on Input pins (voltages, current levels , timings and all ) and what the Output would be. Taliban may like to boast of several things – heck , but that doesn’t mean they coulld do it. I would like to boast of my plans of swimming the entire Dharamtar Creek near Mumbai or – say – chase Great White Sharks in Pacific , but that doesn’t mean I would be able to do it.
    That said – the real danger from Taliban is in them provoking a Indo-Pak Military conflict. 26/11 may have been one such attempt with a willing help from some willing elements within the Pakistani establishment. Here is a link to Stratfor article on 26/11 (http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081201_strategic_motivations_mumbai_attack)
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Jaivaidya, do not get worked up about SHRILL SHAN. He just negates others without producing anything substantial. I liked the link you provided. Sadly these kind of madarsas are sprouting up all over India- trying to find rogue maulvis in India is impossible.
    Enjoy Balwinder paaji’s chutkula about Shan-
    +++++++++++++++
    please Usman bhai, just ignore tajender aka ramavtar aka pakistani-hiding under hindu name. He is harmless, but as Dr Pankaj said above, suffers from zionitis in morning and brahminitis in evening.
    No difference between him and SHAN- both went to the same school- where they are taught TO TALK, BUT NOT SAY ANYTHING MEANINGFUL. hehe

    Only difference is tajender dropped out after class 4 – as his English testifies- and SHAN stayed an till class 12- so his English is lots better. Lot of ppl say SHAN is total anpadh- but that is not true. I love SHAN- and say he is 12th pass.
    Ashish on the last blog used to say that SHAN is unemployed on benefits and I used to get very upset- ‘Please, why u abuse shan, he has a proper job- he is toilet cleaner at best private school in UK- for GIRLS- Shan spends all his time in there drilling holes in walls…

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizwan , Abba ka lap dog ,cannot earn a single paisa on his own , no self worth , WAITING FOR INHERITENCE.
    Now look you snipped DUMBO,the more bullshit from you , the more vicious I will become.
    you have seen what happened to Ashish , Ravi , SO JUST DONT MENTION MY NAME OR ELSE

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    at the time of death he more close to his target(pauperizing america).valy nasser is right

    jaiden jee pls read as follows,

    at the time of death he was more close to his target(pauperizing america).valy nasser too is right.to commence their exit,
    americans are forced to negotiate with talibans.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    I am digressing from the subject.

    Can this happen in India ?

    Will this bill be passed ?

    http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/05/26/communal-violence/

    [Reply]

  • shan

    There is only one thing to comment , india is a free country , that is why this informatiom was made public , and will be acted upon , already THERE ARE STRICTEST LAWS IN THE WORLD AGAINST THIS PRACTICE,.IN CONTRAST PAKISTAN DOESN’T EVEN HAVE HAD A CENSUS , SO NOBODY KNOWS THE POPULATION OF PAKISTAN

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    sorry SHAN, I hv a Pavlovian reflex. You snipe at others, I snipe you. I enjoy others comments on this blog, please do not drive them away with your name calling.
    As for you ask yourself, does any doctor get so desperate and vicious to write thus – ” the more vicious I will become. you have seen what happened to Ashish , Ravi , SO JUST DONT MENTION MY NAME OR ELSE ” QED

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rizwan , abba ka diyee huwe pocket money mey pulne wala
    This is the original experiment by the pavlov.
    A DOG had a hole made into the stomach . Every time the food was brought(IN YOUR CASE YOUR ABBA ENTERS THE ROOM), a bell was also rung.The juicess started pouring out of stomach.(In your case thought of INHERITENCE, for on your own , you cannot land a singlejob with that meagre qualification).It went on for some time. One day the bell rang ,but there was no food , still the juices kept pouring. In your case one day somebody mentioned the word INHERITENCE and you STARTED SALIVATING LIKE A DOG OR A LAP DOG THAT YOU ARE.

    [Reply]

    tajender Reply:

    rizwan i giwan i give u 24hrs to leave blog and go go where chimanzee is blogging.this is my order.u and chimpanzee were the destroyers of this blog.from tomorrow this time i dont want to see u here.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Mohun Ramchandani,We have all read Animal Farm.The NAC are the pigs “some are more equal than others”.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Vijay Kumar, Praveen Saxenaji, Pankajji,

    all out efforts are going on to bring Kani Moli out, despite the congress publicly telling Karunanidhi that law is taking its course.

    Kani Moli is shedding quiet tears
    holding her luxurious hair she tears
    about getting bail she has her own fears
    what if the SC jeers?
    and the prosecution leers?
    Neither brothers nor father bring her cheers
    less said the better about the other dears.

    she now and then takes a walk
    thinks deeply how she can make her money talk
    will Shekhar Gupta to the jail walk?
    will he do with her a ‘walk the talk’?
    will the SC separate the cheese from the chalk?
    how or who will make the courts baulk?

    CAN ANYBODY SOLVE KANI MOLI’S ?

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    problems?

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Mrs Gandhi either had or is going to have tea with “Amma”, obviously with an eye for the next parliamentary election. DMK will not get even one parliamentary seat from TN. Amma and her coalition can win all the seats without Congress. It will be interesting to see

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy sahab;
    I can not solve her problems but I can certainly say: Wah, Wah to you:

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    :D :D @ Shenoy !!

    Fantastic!!

    Forget the 214 crores Balwa gifted
    Forget the 1,76,000 crores the UPA lifted

    Just remember

    WOh hai maa, behen aur biwi !

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankajji, Vijay Kumar,

    Just when I thought we had enough of her, I have just been ‘inspired’ by her strength of her character, depth of her pockets and the width of her prison cell. Now suniye Kani Moli ki dukh bhari kahani, Shenoy ki zubani:

    Every sepoy in the jail knows she is a 1000 karodpathi,
    but she is made to eat sookhi chapathi
    Don’t they have any mathi?

    She has a child and she is a good sathi,
    and she has a foreign touring pathi,
    then why everybody pretends to be mandamathi?

    But, as if by telepathy
    Barkha whips up sympathy
    and wails, ‘Kani is a maa, a behan and a sathy

    Barkha’s fake dard story evokes empathy
    and Kani knows even judges care for sampathhi
    hence it is a matter of time before her pathi
    tells her, ‘you are free, my dear sathi’.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    shenoy sahab;
    As usual, lot has been said in these few lines.
    Thanks

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Kani know that the judges covet sampathi…

    Just says it all :D

    The media too loves crorepati …

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Shenoy Saab

    Barkha Niraa aur Kani Moli
    Yeh to hain purani saheli
    Din aur Raat ki humjoli
    Khuub kari hansi thitholi
    Ab Tihar mein inki kholi

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Guys , please dont respond or discuss maters with people who are known for personal abuse or for writing meaningless, idiotic comments.

    [Reply]

  • tajender

    Every day, through scorching summers and chilly winters, Himmat pedals his bicycle rickshaw through New Delhi’s crowded streets, earning barely enough to feed his family. But to India’s government he is not poor – not even close.

    The 5,000 rupees ($110) he earns a month pays for a tiny room with a single light bulb and no running water for his family of four. After buying just enough food to keep his family from starving, there is nothing left for medicine, new clothes for his children or savings.

    Still, Himmat is way above India’s poverty line.

    Earlier this month, India’s Planning Commission, which helps sets economic policy, told the Supreme Court that the poverty line for the nation’s cities was 578 rupees ($12.75) per person a month – or 2,312 rupees ($51.38) for Himmat’s family of four. For rural India, it’s even lower at about 450 rupees ($9.93).

    The revelation set off an angry debate in a country with soaring economic growth that has brought Ferrari dealerships and Louis Vuitton stores to cater to the new urban rich but left hundreds of millions of others struggling without access to adequate food and clean water.

    The World Bank global poverty line, at $1.25 a day or about $38 per month, is three times higher than India’s urban level. Local activists say a better name for India’s standard would be “the starvation line.”

    “This number is a joke. There’s no seriousness about the poor,” activist Aruna Roy said.

    The Planning Commission said it has to set the poverty line – which determines who gets government assistance – to make the best use of limited funds.

    “When you have such a large number of people, given the resources that are available to the government, do you target the poorest of the poor or do you spread your net wider and succeed in covering nobody?” Pranab Sen, an adviser to the Planning Commission, recently told the NDTV news channel.

    Story continues below
    AdvertisementAdvertisement

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    ~~ :D ~~ WILL INDIA FINALLY SHOW SOME BALLS ~~ :D ~~

    Will the dunces and free kabab lovers stop India from joining the Headley law suit in US to implicate the ISI. ??

    This really is our opportunity to put the ISI on the mat. I hope we grab it with both hands to raise more international disgust against the ISI.

    Today’s Times of India is literally devoted to articles from oversaeas– American and European writers on the rogue terror mafia called Pakistan. Let us stir this pot a bit more so that paronia is created to de-nuke Pakistan.

    Otherwise the taliban may get the nukes….

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    Interesting comment by eminet Pak columnist, Ardeshir Cowasjee from dawn

    ..as early as 1948 prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru stated: “If today by any chance I were offered the reunion of India and Pakistan, I would decline it for obvious reasons. I do not want to carry the burden of Pakistan’s great problems. I have enough of my own.”

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/29/have-we-really-seen-the-enemy.html

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    Rajiv

    David Headley is the half brother of PM Gilani’s PRo. Now he says that the PM of Pakistan visited his house on after his (headley’s) father died/ Seems that the web is getting close to the PM of Pakistan…

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Vijay,
    This was widely reported about a year ago and now confirmed by Daood Gilani/Headley. Daood Gilani’s father had some contacts at high places. He was part of Pak diplimatic corps.
    India has to persue a legal case against ISI/Kayani/Pasha , if nothing else, just to kep those bas***** occupied.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    shenoy, nice
    ‘…But, as if by telepathy
    Barkha whips up sympathy
    and wails, ‘Kani is a maa, a behan and a sathy…’

    your poetry is growing on me, maybe after a few years you could compile your best lines- I will buy a copy

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    you are just trying to be nice. “Hum pal do pal ke shayar hain”. I am in fact making a tall claim to being a shayar. These lines are like gol guppey; instant, eat them and forget them.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    you said some nice things about Shiela chaman. To this I will say

    “a thig of beauty is a joy forever….”

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    and a boy in heart will be aboy for ever. ha

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    Rajiv, just when I think I have read everything there is to know about Nehru, you post a very revealing and realistic comment from him.
    Better to talk straight than indulge in this over-emotional unrealistic garbage of Akhand bharat is incomplete till we reunite with Pakistan- this said surprisingly by Tarun Vijay. The man says hard hitting things sometimes, and sometimes goes completely off target- but therein lies the tragedy of the BJP I once supported. There I go again…

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    Well lets keep the Bharat we have ‘akhand’ and the government/people work to make it better.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Mishraji;
    Usually, Tarun writes sense, but if he is saying, Akhand Bharat, only mad persons will accept it. Who want to join with mad pakistan. It is a different matter, if pakistan request for some kind of federation, but even then, I will not be comfortable.

    [Reply]

  • shan

    @Airhead observer of karan johar movies.
    To spare you the trouble of scrolling forwrds , here you have it , NEHRU ,
    Interesting comment by eminet Pak columnist, Ardeshir Cowasjee from dawn

    ..as early as 1948 prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru stated: “If today by any chance I were offered the reunion of India and Pakistan, I would decline it for obvious reasons. I do not want to carry the burden of Pakistan’s great problems. I have enough of my own.”

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/29/have-we-really-seen-the-enemy.html
    Oh, By the way who was that gentleman who said
    What bengal thinks today , rest of india thinks tomorrow,
    and by the way a certain DAVID KOPF had written a book ,and surprise surprise , what an awful title” Bramho samaj and the shaping of modern india”
    Knowing your limitation in matters of historical detail ,a little tutorial
    bramho samaj was a reform movement started by RAJA RAMMOHAN ROY , which
    took india to a different trajectory else india would be somalia 2010

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    did not understand;
    Are you responding to me? By the way, just see a movie, Sahab, Bibi aur Gulam. Fantastic movie by guru dutt. background is Bengal. Unparralel.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @CQ shan

    We want western style nation with Hindu philosophy of karma, reincarnation and non-violence and vegetarianism, the ideas increasing becoming popular in west., which is the message of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and also Gandhiji.

    Bengalis suffer from inferiority complex. with reference to westerns and have love hate relationship. with west. it is same case with Nehru. Therefore Bengal, unlike Gujarat, Maharashtra, and South India, has been unable to modernize itself in terms of infrastructure and so on. Same is the case with Nehru it was his inferiority complex which prevented him from sending Indian army to Azad Kashmir, because he was seeking western approval. Therefore I can understand you liking him and feeling him one of your own.

    In case of Bengalis it may be due to their darker complexion and longer colonial period.They seem to be exhibiting characteristics of people of Caribbean, unlike that of Black Americans who have largely shed their inferiority complex. May be Bengalis should learn from Black Americans.

    Brahmo samaj typifies that inferiority complex, they were ashamed of calling themselves Hindu and of Image worship and trying to fit into Christian world view… Arya samajist another movement with basically same idea trying to behave with superiority complex.

    So first all these assorted groups need to shed their inferiority complex, to participate in greater world. Granted that Hindus have flaws like caste system and so on, but that is social problem and not religious one.

    Groups like VHP in Kerala are recruiting so called dalits to be priests, which is really a good development. we should treat everybody equally with respect, irrespective of race, religion, caste. Hating Pakistanis or Muslims is not going to do you any good, you should try to understand their perspective.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Observer,

    why Nehru didn’t allow the Indian army to complete the job entrusted to them, of ridding the state of J&K of Pakistani army regulars and the tribal irregulars, was because he was ‘deeply’ under the influence of Edwina Mountbatten at home and Lord Moutbatten in the office. Here I agree with you that it was his slavish mentality and servile attitude towards the white Englishmen which made him retain the services of this couple, who were acting in the interest of Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @ SHENOY

    Personally I believe there were two reasons. One was desire of Nehru to become a PYJAMA WALA GENTLEMAN with world stature. Second, hidden but more sinister, was to tie down India to secularism. 370 clause was part of it, which enabled bookish experts (Pothi Pandits), such as VINOD SHARMA to continue harping that India will lose it’s case if India leaves secularism.

    These bookish expert do not understand power politics. everybody dances against power.

    Former Pakistani Prime minister Nawaz Sharrif showed the excellent example of that. The president at the time of election which gave him mandate, was conspiring to eliminate prime minister’s power by creating group consisting of president army chief with all powers, hoping a fractured mandate to political parties. As soon as Sharrif got the mandate president changed the tune and started doing MUJRA, but not being Hindu CQ, Nawaz was not fooled and immidiately replaced him and and all the legislation that President had pushed through.

    Hope this example will enlighten mediocre thinking Hindus.

    Observer Reply:

    @CQ shan

    FYI: I do not watch many Hindi movies Last movie I watched was ” My name is Khan”, which I wanted to see to understand perspective from Muslim point of view.

    I can understand your rude and crude behavior, befitting your environment as you have not learned to agree to disagree without throwing abuses. it is like going to Delhi and watching people run to catch bus, rather than standing in line. It is even more fun when you see them doing that even in western countries.

    I have to come to your level in writing to understand from where you are coming from.

    [Reply]

  • Observer

    We want western style nation with Hindu philosophy of karma, reincarnation and non-violence and vegetarianism, the ideas increasing becoming popular in west., which is the message of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and also Gandhiji.

    Bengalis suffer from inferiority complex. with reference to westerns and have love hate relationship. with west. it is same case with Nehru. Therefore Bengal, unlike Gujarat, Maharashtra, and South India, has been unable to modernize itself in terms of infrastructure and so on. Same is the case with Nehru it was his inferiority complex which prevented him from sending Indian army to Azad Kashmir, because he was seeking western approval. Therefore I can understand you liking him and feeling him one of your own.

    In case of Bengalis it may be due to their darker complexion and longer colonial period.They seem to be exhibiting characteristics of people of Caribbean, unlike that of Black Americans who have largely shed their inferiority complex. May be Bengalis should learn from Black Americans.

    Brahmo samaj typifies that inferiority complex, they were ashamed of calling themselves Hindu and of Image worship and trying to fit into Christian world view… Arya samajist another movement with basically same idea trying to behave with superiority complex.

    So first all these assorted groups need to shed their inferiority complex, to participate in greater world. Granted that Hindus have flaws like caste system and so on, but that is social problem and not religious one.

    Groups like VHP in Kerala are recruiting so called dalits to be priests, which is really a good development. we should treat everybody equally with respect, irrespective of race, religion, caste. Hating Pakistanis or Muslims is not going to do you any good, you should try to understand their perspective.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Observer,
    any comments, that tend to impute characteristics to an entire linguistic, ethnic or religious community is self-evident falsehood. So are generic comments about Bengalis or punjabis or gujratis etc. So its better to not blemish an opinion by indulging in it.
    Lets just stick to individual opinions and not try to find ethnic generalities based on opinion of one person. Shan does snot represent Bengali opinion, just as I dont represent punjabi opinion and just as no one individual represents Indian opinion or bihari opinion or malayalee opinion.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Observer,
    bye the way, you are not the only poster guilty here of using such generalities.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Rajiv,

    You are right and wrong at the same time. Individuals differ in any group and all member of any group will not exhibit all generally perceived characters by people outside the group. It is something like a member of parliament representing a constituency. He represents the majority views, even though everybody in the constituency does not agree

    Idea of generalization is to make members of a group aware it’s flaws, as perceived by others, which enables them to correct the flaws individually. As long one is trying to understand and not implying hatred or discriminatory prejudice against that group it is OK.

    Key issue is basic civility and acceptance of agreeing to disagree concept, because once one start abusing others by using adjectives it is only a matter of time before it degrades to bring worst in everybody.

    We can not rationally discuss Pakistan without trying to understand their point of view, which may be flawed but it still drives their actions, as none of us want to die in nuclear war just to uphold some fantasy, say secularism.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    Makes sense.

    shan Reply:

    @keen observer and participant in GUJRAT RAPE
    The valour of gujratis was seen in raping muslim women with patel surname , burning children alive ,burning the congress MP jafar alive. OH WHAT VALOUR WHAT SUPERIORITY COMPLEX
    THE SAME GUJRATI VALOUR WAS IN ACTION WHEN THEY WERE BOOTED OUT BY IDI AMIN AND THEY DIDN’T RETURN TO INDIA BUT SWAMPED ENGLAND AS REFUGEES.
    You are a disgrace , a troll , a subhuman species known as SKUNK(look it up in the net)

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Still they have shown more courage than Bengalis in time of Noakhali.

    FYI After Idi Amin was send packing by Tanzanians those refugees were asked back by Tanzanian government. if they had came back to India Indira and running dogs would have bled them dry with their corruption.

    Without Indians from western parts India would be Somalia. It is from Maratha army broke the back of Moghuls, while you would be still under Muslim boot if Englishmen had not rescued you, being ungrateful you abuse them, like you abuse Hindu nationalists and wag your tail to Nehru dynasty, CQs and Muslims.

    Go back to your cesspool and keep crying you man of in-action and crying. communicating ungentlemanly people like you with me brings out worse from me. You remind me of Bhutto, who was one of the most foul language speaker in South Asia.

    But you are right in one thing, what is Bengal is today India tomorrow. As Bengal is flooded with people from across the borders and they are spreading all over India, including Mumbai, Pune. So it is only a matter of time before people from across eastern and western moves in india, if these current CQs continue and every city will become Noakhali.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @shan ,

    You are not Bengali, you are Pakistani. A sleeper cell? Using Hindu Bengali as cover? Of course as Pakistan you are far more afraid of Gujaratis than any other Indians and hate them more. Because you know that as business community not only they have brains to understand your trickery, but you would be still doing MUJRA to British if they had not freed you from British rule. You should be thankful to Gujarati Gandhi and Jinnah and count your stars that Gandhii chose Nehru, rather than Patel. Thank Allah when you do your namaz today.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Pankaj,
    Clearly we are dis-agreeing , Please allow me to articulate our dis-agreements – though.
    While we both agree on excess militarisation of Pakistani establishmnet , you are saying that this borne out of desire to conquest India. This is where I differ sir. Me thinks , the so called conquest sentiment echoed by various quarters in Pakistani establishment is mostly posturing. The large bueraucratic structure called defence establishment in Pakistan has used India for strengthening it’s grip on the polity , for it’s own gains. In other words – Plain Vanilla Corruption , Nepotism , Dictatorship with a polished posturing. Furthermore, early years of “War OnTerror” did see the Military Bureaucracy gaining in importance. It stopped being fun once the tribal area came under focus and retaliations from Pakistani Taliban . A situation further complicated by co-lateral damage inflicted by drones, strained relationship with CIA and other U.S. arms . Clearly they got much more than they had bargained for.
    Speaking about resolution …. well , I am clueless as well. IMHO, though, the armed conflict will only serve to exacerbate the siuation further.
    About Afghanistan – well Pakistan may have gobbled up part of it , but it is only recently that Afghanistan has emerged as a stage for Indo-Pak conflict. I am not sure yet about the nature and reason of conflict except for a vague feeling that Chinese angle may somehow be at work here.
    I had my own experiences with Pakistani citizens – once in U.S. on couple of my trips when a guy from Paksitan would do integration of components supplied by us. The person – a very soft spoken one – almost steadfastly avoided any political discussion related to Indo-Pak. Only once – during an informal get-together with his family , did his wife subtly complained about her being taunted by her Indian friends about the situation back in Pakistan. Both me and her husband were a little embarrassed – he actually appeared more so as he cut the topic and diverted it elsewhere. Another of my experience was with a Pakistani surgeon who had visited a medical conference in Mumbai. We had our own stall exhibiting a software add-on for one of the low-cost E.C.G. devices. He appeared fiarly interested but later realised that the trade restrictions won’t allow him to buy our stuff . Perhaps we could route it via chinese companies – he suggested jokingly. Nothing dramatic in both the case .
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Sorry Mahesh;
    As usual, as I am not very tech savvy, answer to you is , in a funny way, being answered to me. In your answer, I see, that you have not read my first half, or even if you have read it, you have ignored it in your answer. Why you are not giving importance to history is difficult for me to understand. have you seen, any of us harking back to Ramayan or Mahabharat, in present day context? No, but unfortunately, pakistan is still rooted in the by gone era of prophet and 720 Arabia. You have to start from there, other wise, you will not understand, with whom you are dealing. You came very suddenly to hypothesis of posturing, here I differ with you, it is not simple posturing, this is the creed of the Pakistani state. The very reason, for which a separate nation was demanded by muslim league. Having said this, I agree that Army took full advantage of these sentiments and positioned itself in such a way, that it could take as much as possible from the national resources. It has grown incredibly rich, even by western standard and so much so that, even if it is not the government, two departments, Defence and Foreign affairs are with it. No accounting for them and no responsibilities. Army is the government, rest is sham.
    I also see, that you have started from era of terrorism, which in real earnest has started from 9/11, for pakistan and west, while India is facing that since the very inception of that state.
    About Afghanistan, India had geographical, emotional, cultural and economical relationship with that country since time immemorial. It is said that Vedas were written in that land, as acknowledged by royal family of Afghanistan. Archeology and and innumerable evidence supports this. Any way, fact is that, Afghanistan and pakistan are two different nations now and pakistan, by a quirk of fate, finds it self in a position, that it can influence its government and by extension serve its interests vis a vis India, to india’s detriment. pakistan is not averse to use China card for this and if it could help it, would be more than willing to let china enter that country, exploit its respources and become a bigger headache for India, in collusion with China. Now, you had a very brief encounter with a couple of pakistanis. obviously, very refined people, but you did not meet them in their own grounds, that is in Pakistan. Individually, they may be good people, but when in their own group, their attitude is different. Obviouly, you may not have a chance to meet them in pakistan but middle east could be thing nearest to it. Meeting Pakistanis in US and India, is a totally different experience.
    I am all for friendship with pakistan and its well being, but not at the cost of Indians interest and india’s loss.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    a masterly analysis and a down to earth attitude. This is where we and these romantic propakis differ.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    The reason why Pakistan find so dificult to change itself is because of the narative that Muslim-league, Jinnah and every ruler there after built. The worst traits of that anti-India, anti-Indian civilization narrative is now the identity of Pakistan and protected by the state army/ISI.

    So to change themselves, the state has to say to its people, all that we said to you so far is just a pack of lies. The worst of Pakistan was sexhibited in 1947-50 period, immediately after partition by the way Hindus and Sikhs were treated in West Pakistan , leading to their annhilation.
    All this happened before any Talban, Al-Qaida or ISI came.
    Lets just not blame everything on Zia-ISI and say Pak was a better state before them. The annhilation of minorities in 1947-50 and then 1971, happened before Zia or Taleban came.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Rajiv,

    The ethnic cleansing of Hindus and Sikhs was carried out because Pakistani knew that could get away with it and also their need to find place and jobs from newly arrived Mohajirs, who wer backbone of Muslim league. You probably know that prior to 1940 Muslim league had no base in Punjab.

    So the blame for that should be rightly placed on Nehru and other Hindu secularists in india, who refused to issue any threat or took any action.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv and everyone else

    ~~~ :D :D ~~ I think we need to blame ourselves too for not taking action ~~ :D :D ~~

    For too many yeqars we let fake Pakistani enamoured dunces to hijack the Indo _pak agenda. To gie you a few examples

    a) Gen Zia leaves Khuswant Singh to the door and also surprises him with a gift of six scotch bottles in the hotel cupboard. And till date Khuswhwant singh pines for the noble general :D

    b) Shatrughan Sinha is left at the door by Gen Zia and he adopts Zia’s daughters as his Rakhi sisters/

    c) I K Gujral eats a few kababs with nawaz Sharif and surrenders our RAW assets

    The list is a thousand name long. The point is Khushwant Singh and Gujral are opinion makers. When they can be swayed by petty favours, they lose their mental balance.

    Look at our own TUR-D. The real Mootandar Hussain Tur-d, a Pakistani who blogs under an Indian Sikh’s name.

    The quality of his propoganda is absymal. his idea is to create a wedge between hindus and Sikhs by posting anti Hindu remarks under a Sikh name. yet some people on this site will believe him !!

    So let us drop our innocence first….:D

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    We should differentiate between personal relationships and pollicies. There is nothing wrong with Zia-Ul_Haq entertaining or building personal relationship with Khuswant singh or Sinha. what matters is did they change their views to the detriment of nation?

    Mussaraf visited his relatives in Delhi did it lead to his change of views? Answer is no. So we should stop attributing wrong pollicies to personal relationship. If any it help create foundation of mutual understanding, which may help reduce mistrust and jingoism.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @Vijay,
    I agree we have all being too willing as a country to forget or ignore Pak state actions and policy against us under the assumption that since we were once a same country, Pak can’t be that bad.
    Well , Pak as a state , is worse than that. Under Pak/ISI army its a criminal mafia entity and should be dealt with as such.
    Kuldip Nayar, K Singh are good examples of fools who have been proven wrong a 1000 times and are shameless.
    The pakinder you mention is a good example of the ideology as preached by pak state/army/isi to its people and is just their interpretation and continuation of Jinnah’s ideology.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    Jinnah was secular. he wanted Pakistan to non-religious, but for building minority friendly secular Pakistan he needed help from minority leaders and intellectuals. Unfortunately people he counted on such as Kuldip Nayyar, Khuswant Singh, Jyoti Basu other talented people such as Sacchar, manmohan Singh etc. But instead of staying there and help him build secular Pakistan they chose to run away to India like heynas at night.

    Hindus and Sikhs in India would have been proud of them if they had stayed there to fight for secularism and in case they had died build monuments to remember them.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Rajiv and Vijay,
    I agree with you. There must be a paradigm shift in our way of thinking.
    Mr. Observer, you have got it all wrong. True that Bengal bore the brunt of British colonisation. Your thoughts about Bengalis being dark are repugnant. In case you have not noticed we are a nation of dark people.Go back to the dictionary and look up the word racism.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Rajiv, jai, Shenoy, Rajeev and everyone especially Mahesh and Manohar

    ~~~~~:D :D ~~~ THE PRICE OF INNOCENCE~~~ :D ::D ~~~~~

    For too long we havve fooled ourselves in believing that the “sane” elements in Pakistan will eventually prevent the Taliban from getting the nukes in its hands. It seems we were fools to believe that.

    The Taliban has revealed that it intends to take over the Pakistani state so that by default , the nukes are theirs !

    So what do we do now?

    One solid example of stupidity is reflected in the statements of mani Silencer Aiyar, After boasting thatt he was sure that the “thought of Taliban getting the nukes is so impossible that he will go laughing to his funeral pyre…” Mr aiyar made light of the Headley trials on NDTV.

    What is this Major Iqbal business he retorted. “It is like saying Major Ashok Kumar.. since they could be so many Major Iqbals in the Pak Army…”

    Unfortunately his voice carries some weight wwith the dunces who run to wagah with a mombatti.

    More seriousluy speaking, Mahes and Manohar, dont fool yourselves that the Taliban is probably a fantaic with a bow and arrow running on a horse. In other words technologically incompetent.

    Mohammad atta, Osama and AQ Khan were all taliban. Anyway the lust to do things can make you master technology.

    So when google was available in Pakistan, the lust for unnatural sex made the Taliban hunt for “donkey sex. rape sex, camel sex…” on the search engine.

    If they can master google for schieving their ends, they will certainly learn how to put the bomb together one day….

    :D :D :D :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    I am convinced that just before he returned to India after ruining our country’s strategic interests in Pakistan, this Mani Silencer Aiyer was bitten by a anti-Hindu mad Pakistani and the rabies has, after a prolonged incubation, only now become active. Which is why he now speaks in a distinctly disoriented, disjointed manner, exposing his mad love for everything Pakistani.

    He needs to be urgently flown to Rome for advanced treatment of hopeless cases of rabies.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    another person joins the SHAN FAN CLUB-

    Observer Reply: May 30th, 2011 at 5:12 am

    @CQ shan

    I can understand your rude and crude behavior, as you have not learned to agree to disagree without throwing abuses
    ++++++++++
    My abba jaan said something strange today- he said SHAN does it on purpose- he craves attention

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @rizwan,Did your abba jan tell you to stop being a LEECH OR A PARASITE and do something on your own , for your own self esteem

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Rizwan,

    Thanks. Your Abba jaan is wise man and has better understanding of human nature. I was getting carried away on that slippery slope. I’ll try to remember that when I was about to be carried away by his trolling and prevent me from going to that slippery slope and maintain my nature of courtsey and respect to everybody, whether I agree their views or not.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    There is no use of any dialogue with Pakistan. Dont expect them to change. Hate India
    is taught in schools which was started by Zia al Haq. It was clearly evident when youngsters
    were supporting blashphemy law when Salman Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti were killed.
    After about two decades – if Pakistan survives – all the people in Pakistan will be hating India.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @mohan , you are right .As I have pointed out before PAKISTAN IS AN ABNORMAL COUNTRY,normal rules of engagement do not apply. it is difficult to prdict the coming months and days. i suppose the suicide bombimg ,nato air strikes will contnue , a kind of simmering on.
    it will be interesting to see what happens in kashmir.INCREDIBLY IT HAS BEEN SO FAR SO GOOD.just need some excuse against the army . As george fernandez said “China is enemy NO1″
    Though i see no hope of anything positive happening in the indo pak relations. Though end of headley trial may cause some ripple effect , the interesting bit will be if the court summons suja or indicts ISI, then the FUN BEGINS. So next six months will be interesting.

    [Reply]

  • Mohan Ramchandani

    Observer,

    What did you understand by watching My name is Khan ?

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    It confirmed my views. That is South Asia’s problems is not Muslims, but secularist Hindus, who are encouraging Muslim intransigence. The good example is Babri Mosque, without CQs the problem would have been solved peacefully between Hindus and Muslims and there would have been no Mumbai, Godhra, Gujarat incidents.

    Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan was carried out by Pakistanis only because Hindu CQs in India did nothing. They made Pakistan intransigence by deliberately keeping Kashmir problem simmering rather than seizing Azad Kashmir in 1947 or 1971. Now they will reap the fruits of their bad Karma. Hindu community will suffer too for letting these CQ monkeys on their back.

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    Shenoy Saab,and all friends .

    Barkha Niraa aur Kani Moli
    Yeh to hain purani saheli
    Din aur Raat ki humjoli
    Khuub kari hansi thitholi
    khushi manayi dekh apni jholi
    Ab Tihar mein inki kholi

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Aur jaise hi Tihar se baahar ayegi Kani Moli
    milke theeno saheli
    nikal padhenge Manali
    aur khoob khelengi holi

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    Sorry for being a late arrival in this mushiara. Here’s my take

    Kanimozhi ko ladki bataya
    Phir bhi judge ko samajh na aaya
    Bheja ladki ko seedha jail
    Jethmalani ho gaya fail
    Eis vakeel ka ajab tha jaal
    Maya uski baaki kangaal

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Wah wah…
    Jugalbandi aage shal rahi hai…

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vinod ji;
    badhiya kavita.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    aap shayar tho nahin
    magar
    baath jab haseeno ki ho rahi hai
    wallah kya baath hai,
    aap ki shayari ki jawab nahin

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Praveen

    I think with shenoy sahab, you should do a jugalbandi… like Salim Javed and Shankar Jaikishan. Goood lines !

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    the lines are indeed mirthful. I wish I could write well in Hindi.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    The inspiration came from you Sir. A few more as Vijay said a little jugalbandi

    Jab chali Tihar ki garam Hawa
    nikal gayi sab mauj pasina
    Bahut yaad aya 2G ka paisa
    Par yahan kuch kaam na aya

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    Shenoy, please do greet Kanimozhi at Tihar jail on her release with your poetry. I will make sure I am there to capture the moment, hahahaha

    She might say-

    NDTV ke Mr Prannoy
    yeh hai Mr Shenoy
    Yeh karta hai ulti-seedhi baat
    Please aap maar inko laat

    my first try

    [Reply]

    Rizwan Reply:

    btw, what is the reference to Kani moli, ie, what is Moli

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Kanimozhi is an inappropriate, inadequate representation in English of the Tamil Name.
    They often write Tamizh for Tamil as per the pronunciation.
    Similarly, Kanimozhi canbe simply pronounced as Kani Moli

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Rizwaan, good.

    you have provided proof, if proof were needed that this blog has affected all of us equally and brings out the best in each of us. Your poem may also be the result of the sense of freedom you are experiencing, like I do, of the ridding of the most dangerous, rabies-infected pest.

    Let me congratulate all of you for the sustained campaign for ridding this blog of the pest that had gone mad, Tajender Tur-d.

    I also heartily congratulate Vinodji for asserting his position.

    [Reply]

  • Rizwan

    What do SHAN and Moseley, chief of Grand prix racing Formula 1 have in common- both love to have their bottoms spanked in public. Watch Shan needlessly needling Observer-
    ”@ observer and participant in GUJRAT RAPE
    The valour of gujratis was seen in raping muslim women with patel surname , burning children alive …WHAT SUPERIORITY COMPLEX…THE SAME GUJRATI VALOUR WAS IN ACTION WHEN THEY WERE BOOTED OUT BY IDI AMIN AND THEY DIDN’T RETURN TO INDIA BUT SWAMPED ENGLAND AS REFUGEES
    ++++++++++

    and SHRILL SHAN- you would have stood upto Idi Amin if you had been there? Think not- all you have is hot air

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Rizwan, you will be sniffing that hot air coming out of my posterior. A parasite, good for nothing fellow , barely graduate , perhaps first in the family to go beyond madrassah education.
    As they say do not cast pearls before the swine(oops tauba tauba , swine , pig haram) what will abba’s lap dog do.

    [Reply]

    Observer Reply:

    @Rizwan

    Ignore this Pakistani posing as Bengali under alias shan. . He seems to be coming from cesspool of Pakistan and seem more used to Bhutto type guttural language rather than civilized discussion.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Shenoy and Praveen,

    Kashinath Tapuriah the brother of Priyamvada Birla has revealed that even Renuka Chodhary was linked to Hasan Ali. Arre yeh kya ho raha hai?

    I hope gender concessions are not sought here too…..

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    This is just to enable your short memory. Remember who sought gender concessions for Kanimozhi? The great Ram Jethmalani (whom I like for many other reasons). And do you know for what price? It will take you a lifetime to earn the kind of money he did to appear for Karunanidhi’s daughter.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma.

    I have no love for Jethmalani whom I have met a number of times, including once dining in the lawns of his house. And at eighty, he was always only interested intalkjing to women– including my girl friend… :D

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    You watched as he talked to your girl? Hope that wasn’t the case. But I don’t understand you linking his age to his fondness for the opposite sex. More than me your guru sri sri BV Shenoy wouldn’t like it :) )

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Yes I watched as he talked to my girl. But then I know for sure that the way he was pining for female company… he must have had a colorful past.

    But then my girl asked him an awkward question, ” Sir.. when the world respects you for your legal knowledge… why did you appear for Manu Sharma in the Jessica Lal case…?

    A deadly silence followed. I thought he was going to have a heart attack. Or maybe I would be kicked out without the drinks or worse sued…

    :D :D :D :D

    He had also put up a board outside his house that he did not take legal briefs any more.

    You are right that the amount he would have got from DMK would be more than 20 crores or so….

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    It could be just: Bujh te diye ki lau, jyada phad phadati hai. Ha.

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Sawaal girlfriend ne poocha and punishment bodyguard ko?

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    maybe you are right !! But i found it funny that he was insisting that a girl from the media could get some legal lessons from him … at his office.. :D

    On the serious side, I think he had his glory days when he defended Haji Mastan and company. And later Indira’s killer beant SIngh I think.

    Somewhere the law has become an *** in the hands of thses High profile lawyers. When Engineering is plain and simple, that you follow the codes and desgin the machine or as a doctor you you would be knowing tyhat clinincal procdeures are well coded. Then why should law be so mystifyied that only Jethmalanis and Singhvis get you bail???/

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod SHarma,

    Sir, you would be well knowing by now that whenever the quesion of taking the blows comes, the men get the blows and the women become the weaker sex… as Jethmalani was pleading… :D

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Women may become the weaker sex,
    but men become weak in their legs.

    shan Reply:

    @vinod sharma, Indeed . His daughter devoloped cirrhosis following a Hepatitis infected blood transfusion in JJ hospital Bombay.
    Came to UK for LIVER TRANSPLANTATION , must have cost atleast half a million pound.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    In the latest issue of Time magazine Aryn Baker has described the Pakistanis as “frenemies.” According to Time there is a secret R wing. Whike the S wing liaises with jihadi groups such as LET and deals with indoctrination, it is the R wing that carries out the actual operation. As far as the Taliban getting hold of nukes is concerned I think is a red herring.
    We have to understand that the Pak army and the ISI havea jihadi mindset, THerefore jihadis already have nuclear weapons. It is completely wrong to wait for the Americans to do something. They sinply may not.. Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott–Clark in their well -researched book, “Deception”say that Indira Gandhi’s bold plan to bomb Kahuta and to liquidate all other support facilities was leaked to the Pakistanis by our ‘friends” the Americans.
    The Pak army and ISI have already hired lawyers in the U,S, They fear the victims’ families will take the Lockerbie route.
    The Indian foreign office should at the very least hire a sharp legal eagle to work with the victims’ lawyer on an informal basis.

    [Reply]

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    We have Kapil Sibal, the zero loss wizkid of the UPA.
    He can prove, even in a Kangaroo court, that there is no terror in Pakistan and it is all Hindoo right wing propaganda against white-skinned Sonia Gandhi.
    When you talk about white skin, the Americans easily understand the UPA standpoint.
    After Kapil Sibal concludes his arguments, everybody will live happily.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @BV Shenoy
    At the same time, we’d have the likes of ravi shankar prasad and the entire VHP-Bajrang Dal and RSS variety telling the world that not just the Pakistanis but the Indian Muslims are also part of the Jehadi army. Dear Shenoy Sahab, in every argument you bring in extraneous names. Kapil Sibal has never made the kind of comments you have attributed to him here. Pl be factual in what you say. There is a limit to jingoism and rhetoric which be better left to politicians.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma.

    C’mon Sharmaji. We know that India Muslims have their heart and head in India. It is only the Congress which tries to tell them that your problems are different from that of Christians, Hindus and SIkhs and only the COngress can solve them.

    Unfortunately Digvinash and Antulay tied to give a bad name to Muslims by trying to make fun of the Batla house encounter and 26/11. Javed Akhtar did the right thing by donating 5 lakhs to the family of Inspector MC Sharma at batla house and standing in front of the candle lights holders at gateway of India. And I am sure so did most of the Indian Muslims.

    Today’s Indian Express says that Farooq Abdulla wants to ban Arundhati Roy and Gautam Navlakha from entering J&K as they are coming here for espousing separatism. Now whom do you support. Farooq or arundhati?????

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Again you are holding Shenoy Sahab’s brief. What’s up man? Do jism magar eik jaan ho tum? Or are you one and the same? Something like Raam tere kitney naam.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Have you seen those Amitabh Bachchan films?

    Vijay hameesha sach ke liye larta hai… :D :D

    Observer Reply:

    The fundamental error in your thinking is that if you believe you call a person lion he becomes lion and if you call another person a dog he becomes dog. Labeling Indian Muslim or Pakistani Muslim is meaningless. There are pro-Hindu Muslims in Pakistan, though due to current state of affairs, they keep low profile. Same way there are some Muslims in India who are fanatically anti-Hindu. we should be getting over that prejudice, spread by Hindu CQs for their vote bank politics.

    So we need to change attitude that all Pakistanis are bad and all Indian are good. Tony Blair was blaming immigrant Muslims for radicalism, but he soon found out that large number of terrorists were British born.

    So the right approach is we have to be firm with fanatics, but also try to understand Muslim point of view. what is needed is to sen these Hindu CQs who have seized the center space, packing, so that moderate Muslim can take leadership to bring peace in sub-continent.

    We do not need Hindus like Digvijay, Lalu Prasad, mani Shankar etc. should be shunned like lepers.

    B.V.SHENOY Reply:

    Vinodji,

    It is always a pleasure to join issue with you, but always ina civilised manner.

    Kapil Sibal is, for the government, a master stategist, it is a different matter that his strategies in the 2G have gone for 20-20 sixes. I had used his name to say our government is near bankrupt on ideas when faced with Pakistan’s terror and their ability to wriggle out of any tight corner, often shamelessly.

    I have also reiterated the historical fact of Indians becoming weak in the top storey when facing a white skinned man/woman.

    About Indian Muslims, I criticise them for helplessly becoming vote banks of exploiters like congress and Mulayam Singh. Otherwise, my heart always weeps for the plight and helplessness our biggest minority has to live with, with no hope at all for improvement in the existing conditions.

    I also believe that most of the above mentioned is self inflicted.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Jai

    Well there is difference between the Pakistani army having the nukes as compared to say hafeez Saeed or Masood Azhar holding the nuke button.

    De NUking Pakistan has to be done. We can only trust the Americans to take care of their own interests. Since teh Indian establishment is still living in a fools paradise, we can at least create some paronia in the US, so that they do it for their own safety.

    After 9/11 they are willing to destroy anything… just to save themselves.

    In contr4ast after 26/11 we have a Digvinash who wants to drag RSS into it and dilute the issue…

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    Sach ke liye ladtey ho to sach sach batao na bhai. Mazra kya hai? Dhoondta hun Shenoy sahab ko aur miltey ho tum.

    [Reply]

  • jai vaidya

    Vijay,My point is that Hafeez Sayeed is just apawn of the Pak army.He has actually no capability on hi own The mumbai attacks was an act of war.
    It is interesting to note that the ISI feels more threatned by Matoshree than 10 Janpath.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Yes Jai;
    Hafeez sayed is a military pawn, well, I will not say pawn as they complement each other. Hafeez Sayed was from Panipat, and had a harrowing time during partition and carries that grudge along with his maududi philosphy. Of course, 26/11 was a test to see indian preparation and resolve. India lost on both fronts. 10 janpath se baad main nipat lenge, pahle primary obstacles ko hatao. In a way, shiv sena, represents hindu resistance, if not Indian resistance. minus hindu resistance, there is no Indian resistance, is well understood by p.Kis.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    Shivsena is a nuisence and local gang-lords and I hope no one gets into the difficult position of defending them. For me, they defame and bring a bad name to Indian nationalism. Indian nationalism, that is not inclusive of all comminities, is for me actually a narrow, divisive anti-India ideology. Indian nationalism is the nationalism as defined by Nehru, Subhas, Bhagat singh, Lajpat Rai, Abul Kalam Azad etc.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajiv;
    My analysis for Let’s attention on Shiv sena, it seems was misunderstood by you. My post clearly says, what could be Hafeez Sayeed thinking. I do not support shiv sena, very narrow minded, regionalists to the core. That is also not my concept of Nationalism.

  • Vijay Kumar

    @ Jai

    You may be right that the Americans may not do anything. But they may. How?

    a) If some private NRI’s fincance some lobbies in the US and some think tanks like Robert Blackwill, to come out with a policy paper that once the Jehadis get the nuke button and also the missiles form North Korea, they will just put nuke on the missile and press the button.

    b) Some right wing Christian groups may be needed to be worked on. I dont have any liking for them, but at this point, since the US created the monster, why not let it destroy it?

    actually the possibilites are mind blowing. It is impossible to think that anybody would be crazy to blow the world. But with Pakistanis getting this nuke button, it is a possibility….

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    @Vijay,
    As I have said before, military means cannot denuke Pak.

    They have to be either
    1. convinced themselvs that nuclear weapons are economically not feasible and not necessary for Pak
    or
    2. They have to actually use in a civil war or against a neighbour before the world denukes them.

    The other point is that , like they say that ‘you cannot put the nuke genie back in the bottle’. That means, once a country acquires nuclear knowhow, even if you take away all the nukes and damage the reactors, they still have the knowhow to rebuild in 5 years. If the know-how and intent is there, you cannot de-nuke.

    However it may be a good political ploy on pak to keep the spectre of de-nuking it alive to feed pak paronoia and de-legitimize there weapons.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Rajiv,

    I think we need to feed the world paronia.

    However at another level I know that once Pakistan gets 100 or so nukes ready with equivalent missiles, they are quite capable of firing them evn if they get annihilated.

    Remember Bhindranwale? What chances did he have against the Indian army?

    Or Laden?

    Ultimately those sort of people are convinced that they are achieving heaven. And the rest who die are ging to hell…. or jahannum…

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    —————————————————————————–
    India build world’s highest rail bridge over Chenab in Kashmir.
    ———————————————————————————————-
    ( India is near to completion of the longest rail tunnel there too )

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/178741/india-builds-worlds-highest-rail-bridge-over-chenab-river-in-occupied-kashmir/

    SRINAGAR: The world’s highest railway bridge – five times the height of Qutub Minar and 35 meters taller than Eiffel Tower – will come up over the Chenab river on the under construction rail link to the Indian occupied Kashmir Valley.

    The bridge will rise 359 meters over the Chenab, 65 km from Katra, on the 73-km Katra-Dharam section of the ambitious Udhampur-Srinagar-Baramulla Rail Link Project. This section alone will cost around Indian Rs5, 005 crore, Indian media reported.

    Konkan Railway Corporation, with experience of building 179 major bridges on the path-breaking rail link through the Konkan region, will execute this particular section.

    The 1,315-metre bridge will use up 25,000 million tons of steel and will be an engineering marvel. “Work is going on in full swing,” said Rajesh Agarwal, general manager, Konkan Railways.

    The world’s tallest rail bridge is on France’s Tarn River and its tallest pillar rises 340 meters while the actual height at which trains run on the bridge is 300 meters. “The Chenab bridge will be the highest in the world,” Northern Railway chief administrative officer Chahatey Ram said.

    Observing that wind speed at the height of 359 meters may go up to 266 km/h, the engineers have decided not to allow trains crossing the Chenab Bridge if the wind velocity is more than 90 km/h. The railways has designed the signaling system at the bridge in such a manner that it shows the stop light automatically when wind speed is more than 90 km/h.

    Considering the inaccessible terrain of the Himalayan mountains the bridge will get a special coat of paint with a life span of around 35 years to protect it from the tough weather.

    Besides the steep topography and fragile geology, engineers constructing the Katra-Dharam line also have to factor in security concerns. While Railway Police (GRP) and Railway Protection Force provide security to engineers and workers implementing the project, the support of locals is coming in handy. “Only two incidents of terrorists targeting the project have been reported since work was started,” said Shovkat Malik, SSP, GRP, Kashmir Range.

    The railways have constructed a helipad to transport construction material and equipment. For the 73-km section which involves construction of 63 km of tunnels and 7.5 km of bridges, Konkan Railways is constructing 176 km of roads to access the project sites. Railways has already constructed 104 km of roads which is giving connectivity to remote villages which were till now inaccessible.

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @pankaj
    Sorry, I misunderstood your comments.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Any one seeing connection between Balwa, karim Noorani and shahrukh khan. Morani was defended by shahrukh in dubai vis a vis Amitabh. where from these balwas and Moranis have got so much money to play aroound? Daud Ibrahims money? in the hands of some spohisticatd looking hands in connivance with politicians??
    khatra!!!

    [Reply]

  • Vinay

    So why is it the author worried about…that NCP is poaching congress…or happy that congress found better ways of mudslinging…ncp may not have govt of its own…but this way one day they will….then all that will be left with congress is people like deshmukh and rane

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Perhaps, she has got some of the facts off the target. In the recent municipal council elections, NCP has outperformed the Congress. We have to wait for the elections to the municipal corporations to make a reality check.

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  • Anonymous

    This blog is sponsored by Congress Party..Paid blog.

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  • Anonymous

    Zia Haq has proved his Islamiat once again. I expected a blog on Akbaruddin’s secular rant this time.

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    Abu Ahmed Reply:

    Akbaruddin is playing the voter-grabbing game, ably supported by the BJP. The BJP wants him to be treated harshly by the law, so do the MIM itself – the losers would be the Congress, while Jagan Reddy+MIM+BJP would gain the voters. And effective policing, very fast-tracked legal procedures are the only answer to the illiterate and semi-literate populace of our country.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Want disintigration again?….Vote for Saffrons….pretenders

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    Sukhdev Reply:

    This guy would next be taking up SRK’’s cause of : They call me khan!
    Just because they are both Muslims! Time he took on anti-Hindu agenda of some of his communities leaders and their supporters!

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    Anonymous Reply:

    Read about Deity Sita….
    Ravan kinapped her…she was brought back safely but society pinpointed and she had to ask Earth to give her shelter from….whom?

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    Faulitics Reply:

    Huh?

    Arpan Reply:

    “his community’s leaders”!is every bigoted hindu politician or godman ranting on TV a leader of your community Mr. Sukhdev…do you take moral responsibility for the Delhi rape because the rapists are the same gender as you. Mr. Zia is as far removed from bigots like Owaisi as you and I are from fools like Mohan Bhagwat or imbeciles like asaram!if you dont incur the responsibility of defending them, Mr. Zia does not do so with regards to Owaisi either.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    wll, he did not have any Islamism in this…where is your complaint coming from

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  • pankaj#1

    Zia;
    After a long time, you have written a secular blog, and good one to boot it.
    It hits the nail on head.
    Congratulations.

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  • Swapna Sinha

    very well written…..

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  • Faulitics

    Hmmm. I thought Zia was a Muslim affairs writer for TOI. Hopefully he will write an article about muslim perspective on akbarrudin Owaisi’s rousing speech calling for genocide of fellow Indians based on religion. But I doubt Zia will take that one up.

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  • Faulitics

    By the way, Sia has written a tame article this time. No juice in it.

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  • Anonymous

    good blog after a long time.

    Proves you do have some sense… but tend to lose it due to communal reasons.

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