Pakistan wouldn’t let India be a friend in need

I think it was a marvellous gesture on India’s part to give USD 25 million to Pakistan as flood relief.
Maybe it does not suit Pakistan to publicly acknowledge this. It still need an “enemy’ image of India to justify its existence.

THe reasonable voices of civil society should openly acknowledge and thank India, as well as tell the rulers that there is no shame in taking help from a neighbour which is doing well and is also willing to help.

From some postings of Pakistanis like Azhar and Sal on this blog, I can make out that they are told time and again that India is poor and in tatters. Taking help as well as acknowledging help would make the story about India’s poverty look like lies!!

There could also be fears that that the Taliban and Lashakrs would make this a political issue.

But then, if the rulers and the concerned citizens cannot speak out loud in their own country, is it not an extraordinary situation?

Like a poet said, the price of cowardice is death….

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Why are we so hurt if Pakistan has refused the aid. There are other countries with worst condition than Pakistan for India to help. You can’t help a nation that refuses to help itself. That is the divine rule.

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Vijay you are right, our media should have highlighted India’s help as well. I for one think time has come for us to have the guts to highlight each others positive side, instead of just giggling at eac others short comings.

Lets start on this forum, any takers?

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“Why have they let pass the “tragic opportunity” of floods that uprooted millions across that country— rather than using it to create bonding between our people and building trust between governments?”

Mr Sharma expects Pakistanis to be as sincere as himself for promoting friendship between the two nations. this clearly reveals the extent to which Mr Sharma is deluded.

such reprisals from other side of the border will surely make Mr Sharma wake from his dream of delusion.

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Sharmaji,
I request you to look into Deganga riots (west bengal) and educate us about the facts. I am requesting this from you as you have been recently selected in Minority commission.

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Pakistan has to help itself; but successive administrations there have done major injustice to the people by bringing in religion at the center of government. A functioning government for all practical purpose is non-existent; army runs the country; and army is focused on self preservation – constant antagonism towards India, constant troubles internally, and no civilian administration. Even cricketeers have become corrupt, but many (I believe a majority of Pakistanis) may not see any problem with them, because they do namaz five times/day now; and many sport the requisite beard.
With the cricket fiasco, Pakistan has lost the last remaining pillar of integrity.

India’s only role should be to ensure the terrorists dont come over here; and berready to assist if they ask for. It is a shame on an already ashamed country not to accept whatever it gets to help its people in extreme distress, especiallyy when the aid comes without any conditions and restrictions. Once again, the poor Pakistanis are left to mend themselves.

Pakistan should take a lesson from Bengla Desh; they seem to work to make their country a better place ; not an Islamic place.

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Its alright if they neither want to accept nor appreciate India’s gesture. Obviously you don’t want to take help from an enemy country. All it does is that their regular statement that P-a-k-i-s-t-a-n wants friendly relation with India is diluted on Indian public.

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Sharmaji, the fact that you are trying to achieve impossible deserves applauds and I personally respect you for that. It takes tremendous moral courage to even consider making an effort to make peace between the two countries, given the bloody past we share. Noble people like you are in minority, I just wish if there were more people like you world would have been such a better to place to live. The sad and unfortunate part is inspite of being able to see your point even I can’t be like you and can’t forgive Pakistan for the manner it bleeds India. I for one don’t wish any ill to P-a-k-i-s-t-a-n but in the same breadth I can’t forgive them either and my personal idea is we should try not be their enemy nor friends, we should rather ignore Pakistan totally, black them out for our conscious and subconscious memory.

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Starving poor people actually helps the ISI and other terrorists organizations. It becomes even easier to recruit people like Kasab. Kasab committed the crime in Bombay for one Lakh rupees. Another point is Zulfikar Ali promised his people an atomic bomb not affluence. He clearly told them that they may have to live on grass. He has more than fulfilled his promise, Pakistan got the bomb and they are still little better than eating grass. They are too fundamentalists to listen to reason. It gives them lots of pleasure to say that people in India are poor. I live in USA and I know plenty people poor. Does that mean USA is not capable of giving aid to Pakistan. Pakistan is eating out of their hands. It is no better than beggary.

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until the helpless down trodden pakistani of the street realises how their rulers not only exploit them but also indifferent to their plight with marginal lip service no amount of INDIAN lament would change the existing status of animosity towards INDIA.INDIA should stop expecting any change of heart&mind of PAKISTANI leadership then it will be easier for INDIA to move on.

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Are you really serious that this nation of pure and Islam’s fortress will be so desperate that it would want aid from blo-0dy Indians.. ??

They need aid themselves. Look at their shanty towns and poor people. Half of India is naked and hungry and majority sleep on footpaths. They are unpure hindus and have always wanted to demonize Islam and Pakistan. They are enemies of Pakistan and conspiring to break us again. It has been the nature of a hindu to sing “raam-raam” when he meets you but be wary of the knife that he carries under his arms.

So what, if they have atom-boms – we have 5 more than India and we celebrate the atom-boms anniversary each year. We gave a *** for Indian tat when we blew atom boms in the Baluch land.
We have meesiles to take those boms to destroy india and its cities. I also heard Zaid Hamid telling us that some of the boms that we have will only kill hindus and spare pious muslims with beard and those that fast and pay zakat but will not spare those that support secular goberment in india.

Wake up muslims – why would we need handout from this nation of brahmans and dalits. They dont even touch each other and if one dalit walks past a brahmans village, the brahmans first skin the dalits off and then sell all of their land to other unsuspecting brahmans because it is unpure. Such is the state of affairs in India. How dare they offer us aid.. They need aid themselves.

Look at the dark colour they have.. god made them darker because they do bad things like worship other gods. We are whiter and purer because we are believers and we have atom boms.

So what if India’s economy is 15 times our economy in size. They breed like rats and they get most support from Israel and US who are helping them build industries and factories and meesile launchers and that is whats making India’s economy better. Israel-US -India nexus is the root of our problems. They want to take our atom bums and throw them into the sea and then americans and israelis will take over Multan and Taxila and Gujranwala and Faislabad- that is their ultimate aim because we have fertile lands and they have now GFC. See how all americans are now suffering because their houses are not worth anything and they now conspire with India to take over our towns and our houses and to build their wealth again.

We are rich nation. We grow rice and sugarcane and cotton and we have world’s largest salt mine at Keewra. India does not have worlds largest salt mine. We do and we assemble suzuki cars. Indians have ugly cars like that Maruti from 1960s. We import mercedes and I got an email saying the largest market of Mercdes outside of Germany and Lithuania is in Pakistan. We are richer so why do we need Indian aid..? and that only $25 million…

That is 3 times less money that we evade from tax each day. We dont like paying tax because our rulers take that and want to build roads and hospitals and stuff. We would rather build mosques and more atom bums and meesiles and aeroplanes that can each carry 5 atom bums.

Indian stock market is going up only because of all the money that hindus took away from pakistan muslims and the muslim ruler of Hyderabad “Nizam”. They looted our wealth and now investing back in its markets. It is all artificial growth. Inshallah that day is near when stock market will crash and we will buy their stock at 90% discount of their own issue price. Then we will tell them – lick our shoes indians because Pakistan now owns your ar-ses.

And our military has more F16s and atom bums than India and we will have the green flag fluttering over Red Fort in Delhi and we will make Babar and Aurangzeb proud with joy since all land belongs to muslims – And we must rule all of the world and kill those that dont agree with us and let others pay us tax and then we will spare them. We are the most peace loving nation and our religion teaches harmony and respect. Hindus and jews and christians are violent and deserve death or conversion or jaziya.. we are the most peaceful nation and religion.

We know how these indians got common wealth games. I heard from an email I was sent that Indian terrorists flew to Buckingham palace in London and took the royal family hostage 8 years ago and told them to grant them games or they will kill all (very violent people) and then they agreed and the royal family now in London are all Indians from kashmir (you know gora indians) with make up and wigs … because the real royals will be released after common wealth games are over.

And Formula 1 race next year..? Blo0dy indians racing around in Marutis and Jeeps – hahahahhaha That will be so funny. We can have it whenever we like but Islam forbids racing because we are peace loving and we dont like to race cars because they run on petrol and when you buy petrol you help Jews as they own BP, Shell and Saudi-Aramco. They are all hatching conspiracies against us but we have atom bums.. they know that.

We had floods because everyone says that when you select rulers like zardari and dont have martial-law, god makes you suffer so unless we have sharia on our land, we will keep suffering from these punishments by god until we elect Hameed Gul as president and Imran Khan as PM.

But every act of god has a good side. We now have more water than all of India and we wont send any of that water into india. I sent an email to the editor of Guinness Book of World Records about the entry “most rain water in Pakistan out of entire world.” Hameed Gul also said that jews and hindus will take that water away that is why they are giving us $25 million and then they will build a dam in the arabian sea (alhamdulillah the sea isnt called Hindustan sea because otherwise we will not swim in it) and then suck our water out and then ship it on to the dry lands of India where there is no water, that is why Indians are so black and hungry because they have no water to grow crops. This is all the jewish-american-indian conspiracy – We wish Naxalites to slaughter all Indians and to create mayhem there – Islam is the religion of peace and Pakistanis are very friendly nation.

we dont need $25 million dollars of your filthy aid – we are the land of pure and we have atom bums -you jealous conniving indians… Very soon, we will have enough money to buy all of your lands and then we will make more atom bums..

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@Harris

That’s the funniest $h!t I’ve read in a long time. Dude you’ll make a great stand-up comic, in your home country India as well as in Pakistan. Peace through humour!

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Well you can be friends with someone who wants to be friends with you. You are preaching a country whose sole existence is to spread terror. A failed Nation cannot be trusted..

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They are dum & brainless creature, they do not know how to live in civilised world, there is no difference between them & Animals. Any way they are begger one way or the other, no matter where thet get aid from.

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I am sure it must have happened with most of us in childhood years/school/colleges/work place that there would be one person whom you would hate really badly, despiced the very sight of him, you had some grievances borne out of an act he did. Then for some years your paths didn’t cross and then one day you stumbled upon him/her. Was the animosity still the same? Would you hate that with same intensity as before? My feeling is over the years the hatred would have mellowed, you longer considered wasting a strong emotion for someone who is not part of ur life. You probably even forgot some of the grievances you held against that person. So rather than some people banging and shouting for making friends with Pakistan, if we just ignore each other and stop communicating, stop crossing each other’s paths, media just black out Pakistan from discussions, then may be after a decade the hatred would subside and we may no longer put high on hatred towards each other. That might be usher a beginning in workable ties with Pakistan.

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Whether Pakistan takes the help or not both ways it is used for propoganda by the Indians so we loose both ways. First improve your relationship with all your neighbours who are afraid of the hegemonic designs of india in the region then ask for acceptance from others.

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With Kashmir-issue unresolved,Pakistan does not want good neighbourly relations with India.There have been floods in India too. Let us direct our energies in helping our own flood victims.Why should we keep harping on Pak’s refusal/

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IT WILL BE FOOLISH ON THE PART OF ANY INDIAN TO EXPECT PAKISTAN ( FOR THAT MATTER ANY PAKISTANI) TO BE A FRIEND OF INDIA. THE PAK NATION IS FOUNDED ON HATRED TO INDIA, DAMAGE AND DEFAME INDIA. HENCE THE PAK NATION CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT HATRED.ANTI INDIAN CONSPIRACIES/TERRORIST STRIKES, ETC AIMED TOWARDS INDIA.
YES, IT CAN BE A SUMMER FRIEND TO BASK IN THE GLOBAL GLORY, SUCH AS INDO-PAK JOINTS IN USA AND ELSEWHERE, PAK ARTISTS OR PLAYERS TEAMING UP WITH INDIANS, ETC ARE AIMED TO CORNER GLORY FOR THEMSELVES., AS WITHOUT THE HELP FROM INDIA/INDIAN THEY CANNOT ACHIEVE ANY GLOBAL FAME/ATTENTION.
SO BEAWARE OF PAKISTAN AND PAKISTANIS & ALSO THEIR SYMPATHISERS IN INDIA!

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Pakistan survives on the aid from the kafirs, but it reserves the right to select the kafirs.

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Azhar, I am a Pakistani (as in born in Pakistan). I am surprised to hear that you thought that one ridiculing its own nation means he is unpatriotic or a traitor.

Why cant I ridicule my country or the citizens when i see that majority of the citizens are in a time warped and convuluted mindset,

I was born in Hyderabad (Sind, Pakistan), went to Public School hyderabad, lived in karachi (phase 2) before migrating to the west. I am as Pakistani as they come these days without the prejudices and conspiracy theories that majority of Pakistani believe in.

I have as much right to ridicule prevailing Pakistani mindset as you have the right to defend it against the ridicule.

We need to take ourselves a bit less seriously. I have been to India and I travel to Pakistan regularly. In fact in 2003, when I traveled to India (on Pakistani passport as Indians would not entertain providing visas to Pakistani dual nationals on foreign passports which is still the case) I was almost deported and held at Delhi airport for 4 hours. This was because my visa said entry Mumbai and departure port: New Delhi and I entered New Delhi from Hong Kong… It was humiliating but guess what, I was over it and didnt bother to hold any grudges against India.

So, Azhar, its time for you to calm down and take it easy and call a spade a spade. I am trying to highlight what is wrong with majority of Pakistani mindset. You never questioned me when I wrote similar critical pieces against Pakistani in dawn, tribune and other publications.

I also have a Pakistani NIC and travel to Pakistan with work all the time …

So , my true colours are what you see here. If it makes me a traitor, so be it. But I am not prepared to denounce the whole nation (India) as a kneejerk reaction and paddle to the myths and conspiracy theories.

Best
Haris

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Pakistan’s tragedy is that its civilian leaders are either mediocre or corrupt people who somehow find themselves at the helm of power. There is no statesman amongst them. Their society is today totally splintered and so is their political process. God help the country and especially its nukes.

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The author misses the point about Pakistan, that, it agress to any process with India only for the sake of showing its patrons that it is serious about talking to and normalising its relations with India. But, In reality it is pooling wool over the eyes of its patrons.

It is only gulible members of the Indian Media like the author who are taken for a ride by Pakistan.

That is the reality of any agreement signed by the Pakis. They also don’t want any reduction in hostility with the big bad hindu India. As that will remove the reason why the Pakistani state exists today.

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When will we understand the Pakis !!!

These are guys who will (mis)use , twist and distort any concession/gesture made by India into a propaganda tool.

In 1965, Haji Pir pass captured by the Indian Army was (foolishly) returned as a goodwill gesture under the Tashkent Accord.
In 1971 India released unconditionally 90,000 **** POWs as a good gesture.

We Indians go all hunky-dory as to what goody -goody guys we are. And do you guys know how this is portrayed in Pakistan, as a gesture of weakness.

That India took these steps under ****’s or USSR or US pressure.That no matter what Pakis are too brave and clever for their Indians.Has any goodwill gesture made to Pakistan resulted in a lasting peace?

The flood aid from India is portrayed as a selfish gesture by the Indians;taken not to help Pakistan,but to promote India’s own self image!

.PLS PLS understand Pakistan as a nation has its definition, rational and existence on an ideology that stresses as being a separate race/nation from India and Indians.

If Pakis started acknowledging a common past, that there are almost as many Muslims in India as in Pak and India has a much richer Islamic heritage than them,then what is Pakistan!

Hence the constant attempts by Pakis to delineate their history from south Asia,trace **** origins to middle east etc etc.

The greatest ‘gali’ for a pak is ,to hear statements describing India-Pak as lost or estranged brothers,nations with a shared culture and past, as some peaceniks proclaim.Such a statement is blashphemy for them,striking at the very basis of the two nation theory.
Are you aware that Pakis history portrays that Pakis (muslims) were never really subject to British rule and thta is was the Indians(HIndus and others) who wee actaully colonised.The Pakis(muslims) belonged to the ruling class that has always lorded over the Indians(hindus and or).
Pls note that i am using the term Hindu and Muslim in brackets only to illustrate the **** point of view.

For me an Indian is an Indian first,and then anything else.

Thus, by the very definition of their nation,Pakistanis are compelled to maintain an anti -India stance.Without it there is NO RATIONALE FOR A PAKISTAN!

At best we can be indifferent neighbors.

But NEVER,till the time Pakistan has its core ideology based on the ‘two nations theory’ expect genuine and lasting peace.

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—————————————————————————————————
Indian water purifier for Pak army unit okay, but not okay for flood victims!
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http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/

Forgetting their daily bitterness at both Line of Control (LoC) and International Border (IB), Indo-Pak troops and border guards exchanged sweets, fruits and greetings on the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr, which was celebrated in both countries today.

Gates at Chakan-Da-Bagh zero line dividing India and Pakistan in Poonch sector were opened this morning and senior Army officers of India and Pakistan exchanged sweets, dry fruits and greetings.

As a major gesture, Indian troops also handed over a large water purifier to their Pakistani counterparts to enable them to drink clean water in their camps in the forward areas. Pakistan Army was lacking such a facility in their posts on the LoC.

Col Amit Natyal of Poonch Brigade accompanied by other Army officials handed over sweets and a water purifier to Col Imran and Major Dilsher of 35 Balouch Regiment, who turned up at Chakan-Da-Bagh this morning with dry fruits and sweets on the occasion of Eid festival.

Col Imran thanked Col Natyal for Eid greetings especially the water purifier.
………………………………………………………………………………………..

( The above story appeared in dailyexcelsior , 2-3 days ago. )

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@Vigilante – Zabardasti kisi se dosti nahin ho sakti, . aap apne padosi ko bina pasand kiye bhi zindagi guzaar sakte hain. agar dosti nahin ho sakti to matlab yeh nahin hai ki dushman ban jao. Zabardasti dosti ki koshish Indian Pakistan mein aur dushmani karwa rahi hai, Bajaye dosti ke natak ke masle suljhane ki koshish kari jaye.

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Indo-Pak relations are like a messy affair, an affair you regret for rest of your lives.

I wish there was a divorce court for Nations where countries with a shared part, could go and get a clean divorce and never interact again.

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correction , it should read, ‘countries with a shared past’. ( not part )

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It truely is amazing reading these posts, you guys expect each and every Pakistani tostand up ans say thak you for the aid.

Can any one of you show how you guys appreciated our help during the earthquack several years back? Were Pakistanis also shouting in every forum for a thank you letter from India?

What a moron of country and people you people have become.

Where as my question about Haris being a Indian and not a Pakistan, that was just to check all you guys will come to his defense b ecause you guys were hearing what you also dream about.

On the flip side when Arun Krishnamurty, one of your fellow countrymen was doing the same about India, quite a few of you were so sure that he was a Pakistani posing as Indian.

Like I had written on this blog earlier, lets start posting positive attributes about each others country, you will see how the tone and firection of the discussion changes.

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I wish the government should tell the Kashmiris that Shias are being cut up like goats, chicken and fish in Pakistan. And Kashmiris being largely Shias would understand that secular India is their best bet.
‘
And on the ground level, the tri-furcation of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir should happen.

Unfortunately, the Mirwiaz who was a moderate has lost his head ever since a young Omar became a CM. The Mirwiaz had thought that one day he would become the CM. But he sees a young Omar, being a threat to these ambitions, throughout his life.

Similarly the Mufti family is willing to drag all the population of Jammu and Ladakh to his political machinations. When he became the Home Minister in 89 in the VP Singh’s disastorous government, one of his daughters hid herself at a friends house and pretended that a kidnapping had happened, leading to the release of terrorists.

Tri-Furcation is the solution!!

Cmon fellow bloggers, get to the job!!

mail !! Email Mail!! & Email

Jai HInd !!

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As a Pakistani i would than those people of whatever nationality including Indins for the help given for the flood affectees and would request all to continue , directly , through UN or any relief agency

bets regards

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pak is perpetually at war with india by the islamic principle,it took the aid offered reluctantly when embarrassed by the world.the good will gesture will be lost on them.

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@Azhar,

In previous blogs I have given statistical documantation of how 85% of of Muslims stayed in India , while 85 % of Hindus and Sikhs of West Pakistan were kicked out in just 4 years of partition.
Since then the criminal Islamic Republic , which has criminal laws against minorities , like a Kafir cannot be president or PM etc, has reduced Hindus and Sikhs to total insignificance.

Because of those facts, Pakistan is a criminal entity with a murderous legacy against its own citizens.
Well, when the Pak State sponsored criminals did not spare Muslims of East Pakistan, murduring them in millions, it would be foolish to expect those criminals to spare Hindus and Sikhs.

So , never again compare India and Pakistan, irrespective of what your crippled mirror tells your even more cripled mind.

On a seperate note, from Dawn

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Mullah Omar is in Pakistan and everyone knows it.
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http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/mullah+omar+is+in+pakistan+and+everyone+knows+it+france

Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Omar is based in Pakistan and everyone knows it, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said Tuesday, calling on Islamabad to do more to help end the conflict.

“It’s not a secret for anyone, everyone knows that Mullah Omar is in Quetta, if he’s not now in Karachi,” Kouchner told French lawmakers, referring to two major Pakistani cities known to harbour militant cells.
……………….

I think the French are mistaken, Mullah Omar is involved in flood relief inside Pakistan !

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Yet again we have deviated from the topic at hand. No wonder we call you guys cheap buniyas, first you complained that we were not accepting help from you guys, and now the government has and you third class people want each and every Pakistani to say Thank you.

By now it should have cleared the hazy from your eyes, why we Pakistan will ever accept help from your baniyas.

We shipped 5 C130 full of food, tents and blankets but we never got any thank you note, but then again we gave it because poor people needed.

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The numbers of hindus who migrated to India from Pak in 47 was alomost same the numbers of muslims who migrated to Pak from India in 47. But there are more muslims in India than Hindus & Sikhs in Pak in 47. So there are so many ways to twist the truth and present them to the audience in your favour.

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No one expects every Pakistani to say thank you for the aid.
Just as India , gracefully let Pak plane carry aid to India , without fuss, after Bhuj earthquake, India expected Pak to accept Indian aid in a civilized and graceful way, without weeks of delay and cussing.
25 Million dollar of aid , is much , much more than 2 plane loads and not a trivial matter.

But , then we forget that a criminal entity called Pak army/ISI rules Pakistan and is supported by even more crippled minds carrying crippled mirrors, whio find justification for every act of the Pak state.

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Dont give %. More muslims were killed during partition in 47 than Hindus and Sikhs and numbers of muslims who migrated to Pak from India is the same numbers of hindus and Sikhs who migrated to India from Pak. Thats all.

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@Sal,
only someone trying to blatantly deceive would say that , don’t look at % , but look at absolute number.

1/2 million Muslims died in 1947 riots. That was 1 % of Indian Muslim population.

now what would you say, if unfortunately 7% of Muslims of India had died , just like 7% of Hindus and Sikhs of West Pakistan were killed ? That would have meant about 3.5 million Muslims would have died , insted of 0.5 million.

Every person killed is a grave crime and tragedy, but the fact that a Hindu in West Pakistan was 7 times more likely to be killed as compared to a Muslim in India, is the reason by 85-90% of Hindus and Sikhs fled West Pakistan and why Hindus and Sikhs, who made up 20-22% of the population of West Pakistan in 1947, were virtually wiped out.

That also explaions why 85% of Indian Muslims chose to stay in India.

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I admit we are a nation of fools. We have a weak foreign policy and has no system to cope up with natural calamities.

I would like my Indian friends to have your say on my write upI have written on Tribune Newspaper (Pakistan)

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/1552/echoes-of-revolution/

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@Sal,
Indian Pak relations will find it hard to move forward until there is some common understanding of history. You can differ on smaller details , but there can’t be the wide gap thats there today.

The death rate among Hindus and Sikhs of West Pakistan was 700% more than death rate of Muslims in India, in 1947 riots. And that was just the beginning, before the religion took over the Pak state.
That was the reason that while Muslims continued to stay in India ( 85% of them ) and increased from 11% of the population in 1947 ( about 40 million ) to 14% of the population today ( about 160-170 million ) . The ultimate fate of Hindus and Sikhs in West Pakistan was worse than that of Jews in Hitlers Germany , dwindling from 20-22% of the population to insignificance today.

Germany had to accept its Nazi history, before it could move forward and become again one of the greatest countries.
South Africa too, had a truth commission to lay bare open the facts, so that re-conciliation could happen between blacks and whites.

India and Pakistan need to agree on basic facts of there history and if over whelming majority of Pak population continues to reject history ( like Azhar does ) and fill it with 1/2 truths and lies, there will never be real re-conciliation.

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Now these punjabi pakistanis are killing Balochis and balwaris in big number. I think India should do a bangaldesh once more on pakistan. The time has come for balochistan and balwaristan to become free nation under the nuclear umbrella of India-US-Israel.

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The only thought which emerges from forums involving India and Pakistan is can be anything but friends.

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HMMM **** hate india?? there have been 137 comments so far about 80 percent have hate in them towards pakistan. remeber the 1947 division Pakistan didnt have nothing not even a single bank started everything from scratch. i just think that we should stop the hate. if the pakistani people are taught to hate india. why do so manny educated people on this site leave hate comments. something to think about? remember some1 once said a eye for a eye will make the whole world blind. i would sa his name buh this is indian news website where alot of educated indians come to read the news and leave comments so they would know whos quote i just used.

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Haris,

Fantastic posting man !!

I am sure, you have some talent for writing and should start a new life as a blog writer !!

The reason why most Indians are sore is that we are the aggrieved party; it is us who get the terror attacks and the bombs from Pakistan. And in the eyes of most Indians, we have not given an appropriate reply to a pest of a country which is trying to destroy our secular foundations as well as sow seeds of suspician in the minds of Indian Muslims.

I further wish to ask you

a) Is there a military coup around the corner. Altaf Haussain has asked for it; CNN reports that the British government has alerted its crack commandoes to evacuate British Nationals in case the Taliban and hardliners takeover.

And from the postings of bloggers like Tanzeel it seems that Pakistanis want a military coup as badly as most Indians want a date with Mallika Sherawat
.
So is Kayani coming to power? Or a combo of Mulla Omar and his Pakistani clones????

b) Do you think that there is a “civil society” in Pakistan which can actually dream of a secular, liberal Pakistan which does not have an agenda of killing, converting (non muslims) and spreading terror???
Anyway I am aski

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Dear Vinod ji,
Your point in the article is well taken. You have correctly analysed that this malaise lies in misplaced national pride that in Pakistan is driven by the baggage of history. And unfortunately this baggage of history is also a baggage of hate. Pakistan cannot simply accept aid from us as this is a matter of pride and self esteem. Besides, it gives marks to an incumbent civilian government which has otherwise very little to show in terms of progress to its expectant masses. I am happy that sane voices in Pakistan (like those of Usman sahib and Haris sahib) are finding echo in your blog. But unfortunately the rhetoric of hate continues unabated…..the baggage is being carried with great sanctity! The killing number game between Rajeev and Sal is appalling. Is there any point in arguing how many Muslims/Hindus/Sikhs were killed in 1947? Why don’t these guys understand that there was a massive loss of human life which cannot and should not be counted in numbers or identities…….it was a line of blood which was drawn across the subcontinent. The brutalities of partition (on both sides) cannot and should not be the impediment to hope for future. Pakistan’s stability is the stipulation for peace in the region. Walter Anderson had once said “We’re never so vulnerable than when we trust someone – but paradoxically, if we cannot trust, neither can we find love or joy”. This can’t be truer than in our relationship with Pakistan.
Truly,
Dr. Shah Alam Khan
AIIMS, New Delhi
Blog: http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

[Reply]

Dear Vinod Sharma ji

Indeed, the topic of this blog is in resonance with the general disappointment in the country about the response of Pakistan govt. to the humanitarian aid offer in this hour of natural calamity. The Pakistan govt. first vacillated and then reluctantly agreed to accept 25 million US dollars of aid from India and that too through UN. Pakistan had been blaming and complaining the International community for playing politics for the slow pouring of outside help but inadvertently it followed the same policy for having first rejected and then accepted the offer of aid from our country. It was just for political reasons. It is just an irony that while Pakistan is appealing ( or rather begging) the international community for more help, it treated the offer from India with ridicule. But, surely, we had done our job of showing solidarity with the govt. and people of Pakistan but it is another matter that the sentiments were snubbed by the other party.
I had commented before also on your blog on another topic that it is forces in power in that country which would ultimately decide the direction and profile of Indo-Pak relationship and not the peaceniks that had carried out the noble campaign of carrying forward the concept of people to people contacts so as to strengthen the relationship. But the relationship will be strengthened only if the ruling class between the two countries decides to do it. It is a futile exercise for the peaceniks to try to achieve this. The Pakistan response to the offer of aid from our country is a true snub to these peaceniks. I doubt the peaceniks can do hardly anything more but to just curse and accuse the Pakistan govt. for having missed this opportunity of taking the first step in the confidence building exercise.
Our country has many other issues and we should rather focus on them rather be chasing this mirage of building friendship with an unwilling neighbour..
Lastly, this debate on the Indo-Pak relations on this blog is turning more and more abusive and shows the hostility between the educated class of people on both sides of the border. No one wants to introspect in a cool way. Surely one still remains a patriot if one can ponder over one’s weaknesses and is able to reflect on them…
Regards
BNA

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@ Dr. BNA

Twice on this blog I have stated that we are pointing negatives of each other, why can’t we start by writing positives about each other. Maybe then we can stick to the topic at hand, instead of me trying to waste my time doing the ‘cut and paste’ to prove the Rajiv, Rajeev wrong.

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There is a nice article in Pak daily, dailytimes.com.pk . on the reasons why Pak politics is what it is .
It boils down to the feudal-mullah alliance in Pakistan. Here is the link.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20109\15\story_15-9-2010_pg3_3

After 1947, India undertook unprecedented and far reaching land reforms. You may say, India carried it to the extreme. This reduced the power of the landlords and feudal classes from what they had previously. Millions of landless labourers became land owning farmers as a consequence and the land holding of feudal lords kept shrinking. This changed Indian politics in a remarkable way.

In fact, I can buy as much agricultural land as I desire in USA, but in India, even Amitavh Bachan has trouble buying few acres of Agricultural land.

Through out history, from Russia to France to Spain, the clergy and the feudal classes have resisted land reforms that reduce there power. In Pakistan, the feudal landlords are at the pinnacle of their social and political power and the clergy as usual is in alliance with them. They are regressive and the current political set-up in Pakistan is in their favour. The status-quo favours them.

The peace-niks or the masses need to defeat that monster in Pak politics before anything changes significantly. I do not see that happening anytime soon.

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@Rajeev

“We Indians have habit of ducking difficult questions and live in make beleive harmonious words. We are not respected because we are not a practical nation but an emotional ”

it totally agree with you

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Bye the way, just wanted to thank for some moderation of views that posters like Dr Anand, Dr Shah Alam, Harris Chaudhry, Vijay etc bring to this blog.

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“its will be better if we massacre these vermins before they create any further problems”

Atleast one SAFFRON TERRORIST has come out of our big closet

I know we have millions of more of this kind

Jai Hind

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You can read at
http://www. balawaristan .net/

about whats going on in Baltistan part of Pak occupied Kashmir .
Well the joke is sometimes Paks say Baltistan is part of Kashmir at other times they say its not part of Kashmir , so they have seperated it from rest of PoK !!!

Here is a piece from the above link

“Target Killing in Gilgit Baltistan and Involvement of Pakistani Forces

During a press conference in Skardo on August 31, 2010, Manzoor Parwana, the Chairperson of Gilgit Baltistan United Movement expressed concern over unabated targeted killing of innocent natives of Gilgit-Baltistan. He blamed Pakistani security forces and intelligence agency personnel for their direct involvement in promoting instability in the region, which is part of the former Princely State of Jammu & Kashmir and remains under Pakistan’s occupation since 1947.

He said, “The death of four innocent residents of Gilgit city in the last week of August and destruction to six houses shows failure of so-called “province-like” administrative body in controlling the mayhem and providing security to the natives.
..”

I am sure, once Pak army kills all those that oppose them, there will not be any more rebellion or riots , just as there are no Hindus and Sikhs in any significance left in Pak to even riot against the oppression thats part of Pak constitution and law.
Complete Sharia and complete peace as we now see all over Pakistan or Azhar would have us beleive as he walks around with is crookish mirror.

Anyway, the Muzaffar Nagar area of Pok is the launching Pad of terrorists by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan through its army. LeT and JeM training camps, funded and protected by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, operate from there.
The LeT masterminds of 26/11 too were operating from there and its from there they were so called arrested by Pak and under going a so called trial.

As I have said, if ****-s , continue to cry for Kashmir, they will continue to loose what ever is left of Pakistan as they continue to spiral down. Thats a guarantee.

[Reply]

“Anyway, the Muzaffar Nagar area of Pok is the launching Pad of terrorists by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan through its army. LeT and JeM training camps, funded and protected by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, operate from there.”

Rajiv and where were the Mukti Banni camps located?

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@Ahar Hussain

These people will always tell lies. And look at their mental capability, there has been curfew imposed on India Kashmir valley from last 3 months and still people of valley comes on streets to give their lives but not agreed to live under Indian occupation. But they ignore their deadly reality and talk lies about Pak Kashmir.

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@Azhar,
If you want to compare Bangladesh with Kashmir, remember, 10 million refugees came to India from East Pakistan where Pakistan let lose a genocide on its own people and murdered over a million.

Even today , many more are killed by Pak forces in Swat, Waziristan or Baluchistan than anywhere in India , including Kashmir.

So how many million Kashmiris have fled to Pakistan from Indian Kashmir ?

The largest group of people that have fled Kashmir valley is Hindu Kashmiris and not Muslims.

But for an idiot like you, with a crooked green mirror , you see your ugly face every where and think its anathor Pakistan !. Dont you ?

Every country to you looks like anathor Pakistan ?
What a persistent joker.

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@Rajiv

It seems name calling is your culture, when someone speaks the truth. Baita reality is Kashmiri’s hate you people thats why there is a rebellion. My comparison to Bangladesh smart alex was and still if you instigate in other countries which your country did, you will be made to pay the price. The senario may not be the same, but you see for yourself what is happening there.

Your fellow country Paritosh has come out of the very big closet when are going to do the same.

Youre SAFFRON TERRORIST brother Paritosh said “its will be better if we massacre these vermins before they create any further problems”

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Sad and grief. An opportunity left begging by Pakistani authorities to bring relations close. I wish i could turn back time to catch the moment………….

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@Sal,

I am not trying to be dishonest. I did not say Kashmiris always wanted to be with India. I did not say, Nehru never promised a plebiscite. Yes, he did promise a plebiscite, but Indian government is not able to keep up his promise. I just listed the reasons why.

You are trying to say: “I don’t want to hear any reason. Just let Kashmir go”.
It could have been easy, if our country was Hindustan(only Hindus) and not secular India. Then, being a muslim state, Kashmir naturally would have joined Pak. Fortunately or unfortunately, India being a secular country has made this problem more complicated than what is appears to you. (Person of Islamic Republic of Pakistan can view Kashmir, only as land of majority muslims). We want you to listen to our reason, but you are not in a mood to listen anything. (Yes, dad promised his kid a toy, but now he doesn’t have money. In an ideal world he has to keep his promise. But, is there any “ideal world” around?)

True, it is difficult for an Indian to get over from his nationality and patriotism and stand neutrally to look at the issue. But, I bet it is the same with a Pakistani as well. Yes, an Indian saying Kashmir is our integral part says it out of patriotism and not with a problem solving mind. But a Pakistani, who says, “rest of Kashmir is free” or “it will automatically join as soon as Indian Kashmir gets independence” is also equally a hypocrite. If that is the case, why did Pakistan give part of Kashmir to China? (Kashmir is not supposed to be Pak’s property. It is “independent”). One keeps reminding India of its promise. What promises have China made? Is silence over that is not a hypocrisy?

I have to agree, if Kashmir decision affects other muslim population in India (who must be more in number than Kashmiri Muslims); it is an Indian government’s headache and it should solve it. But Kashmiri Hindus thrown out from their home; it is not Kashmiri problem? Why there is a silence there? If the Kashmiri leaders can’t take any responsibilities on their shoulders, why should they expect only power without any commitments?

Kashmiris have put their heart over their brain. Rest of India is reaping the fruits of liberalization. But nobody comes forward to open any industry in Kashmir due to tensions in the state. Yes, Kashmir has been burning in last 3 months, the main bread earning season for this tourist state. In other words, these people have put their stomach as the stake for the “love for their land”. It is unfortunate, people don’t differentiate between “Pyaar” and “Junoon”. One flourishes life, other just burns it. Anyway, if that is the path people choose (good or bad, versions can differ), India can’t prevent it.

I did not say, Kashmir’s struggle is not legitimate. But I am just saying the tactics used is not right. First, let them make sure Kashmiri pundits are not homeless (As I said earlier, it needs to fight collectively to get the credibility. It can’t be done by throwing out one more community from the land which has as much right as the other). Second, let Hurriyat win the election with Independent Kashmir as its manifesto. Well, Kashmir may have been fighting for 50-60 years. But if they select these people continuously for 2-3 terms, it can give a strong message to India and the whole world. Then nobody can deny Kashmir, its right of plebiscite. Instead, if they choose to torch a school, because somebody decided of tearing pages from the Quran in the US; this would eventually result in violence eruption and death tolls. This will do no good to movement’s image.

Lastly, Kashmir problem is multi dimensional. It includes India’s stubbornness to acknowledge the existence of problem. It includes, Pakistan’s reckless behavior in addressing the problem by induction of terrorism. It includes irresponsibility of Kashmiri leaders, who want the power without any accountability. It is a collective responsibility. But if you only wanted me to repeat what you said “But it is India who is the wrong in Kashmir.” – then sorry, I will disappoint you.

[Reply]

Kashmir is not a KAahmiri problem, but a Muslim problem. ,It is the perennial Muslim habit of carving out. India started appeasing groups since early 1960, when Marxist govt in Kerala ceded to the Muslim demand for carving out a muslim majority district in Mlappuram.

Successive governments from Nehru’s onwards have screwed up, essentially not doing the right thing for the fear of upsetting the Muslim vote b;lock in the rest of India. So, in that sense, we are reaping what we saw.

Brute force, negotiation, carrots all needed now; including the opening up of the state for people from other states. Nehru screwed up India royally in his quest to be recognized as a world statesman.

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@Vinay

Pak has given a part of its Kashmir to China with a condition that whenever solution of Kashmir will be decided, this part will also be included. Furthermore, this part is still in custody of Pak armed forces as per my knowledge.

Kashmiris Hindus are thrown away from the Valley which is indeed very wrong. No one support this. But you cannot ignore sentimensts of the majority of valley which is muslims. Valley is not big in area but a populated area. If India leaves valley, this will not be a big loss for India afterall India will keep Jammu and Ladagh if the people of Jammu and Ladagh wants to live with India.

The KAshmir is burning from last 3 months because of its fustraion and this fustration has reached to its maximum level among its new generation including youths, teenagers, people in 20’s, women, students etc. They dont know anything but Indepdence and for that independence, they are ready to sacrfice everything inlcuding their future even thie lives. They cannot do more than stones pelting. They come everyday on streets despite the curfew and ask for indepdendece.

On the other hand, Huriyat cannot contest elections according to Indian constitution which says Kashmir is integral part of India. If Huriyat contest election they have to accpet Kashmir is India’s integral part which they cannot. And If India wants to take some concessions from Huriyat then atleast India should take back draconian laws like Indian Special forces Armed Act from the valley. If India will do this, still problem will remain there. But even India is not willing to make a small step of taking back its draconian laws then how could situation improve.

From last 63 years, India is using time. India hopes that with the passage of time, Kashmiris will forget their desire for indepdence and will start living under indian domain. And at this point, India is still usig time that when protestors will tire out and sit back in their homes but this is not going to happen. This has not happened from last 63 years.

Anyhow, you talked truth and I will must appericiate because you are the only one who has the guts to speak something truth.

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@ Azhar

i can very well understand your frustration for having an ugly face. by the way plastic surgery has become very cheap. get a life pakee swine

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Mr Azhar

now before you call me a “Saffron Terrorist” , let me tell you Muhammad Rasool , was the first terrorist and Islam is a religion preaching terrorism . ( Peace Be Not Upon Him )

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Bye the way, most of Pok was part of Jammu province. You dont have any part of Kashmire valley.

However, I have no problem if you think and claim you have all of Kashmir and not just 4000 sq miles of Pok ( including ex-jammu areas ) plus tribal northern areas of Gilgit and Baltistan.

Be happy with what you have or else you will lose that too !!!!

Remember, India took Kargil in 1971 and Sichen in 1984, because Pak kept crying over Kashmir and would not accept LoC or LaC- this is even after the fact India returned 12,000 sq km of territory after 1971 war !

Ofcourse, your history books may say that Sichen, Kargil are all under PoK or northern areas and you won in 1971 !!

If you keep fighting anathor 1971 can happen ! Who knows !

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i am quite sure , that if we dont realise the reality of Sino-Pak anti-India alliance , and act accordingly , we will be at the receiving end and the loss will be irreversible

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@Sal/@Azhar

Remember what Pakistan’s so called father said of the Pakistan he got in 1947

‘A mutilated and moth eaten Pakistan’.

Now those are not good words, but spoken by Jinnah himself about Pakistan and that was even before you lost 1/2 of Jinnah’s moth eaten Pakistan.
I would not use such bad words to describe even today’s Pakistan !

( go to google and type in ‘moth eaten ‘ and Pakistan will show up as a choice ! . Then search for moth eaten Pakistan to get numerous links to Jinnah’s comments ).

So be happy with what you have and take care of it, just as India needs to take care of what it has.
Crave not for what you don’t have. Consequences can be fatal.

Once that simple, common-sense logic is understood, peace will prevail, even if you think Pakistanis are descendents of Arabs !

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In the east—–we were also separated at birth—-like the western part .
–people of eastern part tried differently too—to keep BENGAL united–but failed.
Separation in the EAST is physical only——
A REQUEST TO MR.SHARMA———WRITE ABOUT EAST—-SPECIFYING THE REASONS
OF LESS ANIMOSITY AND TENSION IN THE EAST.with a comparative study.

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The balochistan province is 48% of total pakistani landmass…and this should be our aim in next 10 years.

By the way map of pakistan including PoK looks like ‘SITTING DUCK’..just look at the outline of pakistani map.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balochistan,_Pakistan

[Reply]

Rajiv,

i applaud at you keen sense of history and a complete lack of knowledge aided with complete lack of prespective when you spit out uglish word and describe this as jinnah’s word.

it was in 1942 when Cripps offered the principle of self-determination of states. parallel to that Rajaji Formula (called after congressman C.Rajagopalacharia) presented the Congress alternative to Pakistan. the rajaji formula was found unacceptable since it offered a plethora of pre-conditions which made its emergence in any shape remote, if not altogether impossible. so jinnah refused to accept this and then made a remark for not wanting this
“moth eaten pakistan”.

engrave this on the wall to read for the rest of your life. dont twist and turn or bend the part of history which you have. after reading you im sure there is lot to discover who has its history or text books twisted to shape its own mean. Pakistan Zindabad!!

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hello every one,
i am really surprise to see so many peoples from both side of these two countries are sortting out different issues.but friend the core issue b/w these countries is about their pride and ego.
i know and i can understand the vittal role of these politicians are playing in minimising the risk of war and maximising the effort of peace and brotherhood. everyboday hate this word ,war, becase it litrely means ”to lose some thing”.before i move further i want to tell u guys that i belong to jammu and kashmir and i know the worse effects of war and terrorism. peace is not a single term process, it needs two hands. and perhaps this time and more often, pakistan is not taking this thing and these words seriously.
i have seen so many peoples in my state,who dont like pakistan and the mass includes musilms and i hope that my pakistani friends would understand these lines easily.i have so many muslim freinds, we usually gossipe about so many problems from our houses to our country and they every time, apprieciate the way india is commiting herself for global peace and that is the true example of peace and harmoney.
well, i hope that we peoples have to undewrstand the most important thing in this world that is, life, happyness.personally i dont want to see any boday suffring from bullets injuries, discrimination because i have sufferd a loss of some one special in my life. so, in the last, i would like to say peace is the most beautifull word ever created by human beings.
thanks
ajay kumar

[Reply]

@Sal,
youir lies never end.

India has such good relations with Bangladesh, Nepal, Burma and Srilanka that India does not even have active army on border with Bangladesh or Nepal or Burma.
Its just border securitry force to keep smugglers, illegal immigrants and Pak terrorists who try to sneak in thru other countries, out.

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Regarding the 1 billion $ loan/line of credit that India gave to Bangladesh, we can give maybe 2 billion to you too !
Just become a civilized, democratic, secular state , not for the money, but because it will be good for you.

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@ Azhar

i think you should realise that the Islamic arrogance is at the backdrop of global Islamic terror. and yes , Muhammad sex maniac gay rasool was undoubtedly the very first terrorist.

get something done for your your ugly face dude. you feel to be really frustrated about that.

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Sharmaji,
The pakistani posters have started showing their true colors so it is time you step in and stop this nonsense.

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Friends (from both sides of border),
Now that we know so much about each other (what was that again, ahh yes – Naxalistan and ohh yes baltistan and kafirs and ram and jinnah and well, forget it,,,) let us quiz ourself a bit more.
I have a very basic question for you folks….
Can you list down top ten impediments from your own country (mind you, speak for your own country) to Indo-Pak Peace ?
Again, Please let me remind , you are speaking for your own country and try to be honest by **not posting** on behalf of your friends from other side of the border.
Cheers,
Mahesh.
P.S. for Sharmaji : Is it possible that you and a credible (in your opinion) guest columnist from Pakistan co-author such a piece ? Not sure about HT’s policies but still sounding out the possibility.

[Reply]

@Sal,

“The more I am arguing with you, the more you are giving your case of Kashmir as Indian, not as a neutral.”
Humm.., May be I went overboard while accusing Hurriyat leaders. (But I would stand by with the other statements and sentiments as being neutral). But your comparison of Kashmir to Palestine was not neutral either. There in Palestine, people who have been uprooted from their homes are fighting for their survival. Here, the struggle is not for existence. People here are claiming for their own identity as independent Kashmir. They are not one and the same.

I always get into arguments with people about why “pro something” has to imply “anti something-else”. Pro-movements which reflect positivity can uplift the society. Anti -movements with their negativity can only destroy. I don’t understand why RSS has to mean “anti-Muslim”. (Vajpayee who declared himself to be RSS swayamsevak was not Islam basher, Varun Gandhi with no RSS background is). Pro-Dalit doesn’t have to be anti-Brahmin. Concern about poor doesn’t have to involve butchering rich. Lastly patriotism need not have to anti-Pak for an Indian and Anti-India for a Pakistani. But
“anti-ism ideologies” always look glamorous and edgy, as they let one to vent whatever frustration he has over a community.

As an Indian, I love my country. I don’t need to hate Pakistan, to prove my patriotism. For that, I will just stick to what India can do at this juncture rather than passing bucks.

1> To reduce heavy military presence in Kashmir. We didn’t train our soldiers for years, just to face a group with stones. Any local police with a stick and tear gas shells would have been equally efficient. (This is what has always been used in our towns. With Ram Mandir verdict going to be announced, we better have more stock
of these. But every time we don’t want to call army to deal with a situation. So does a Kashmiri). If these people throw stones at a school or shop and there is no army to control them, the locals themselves will take care. Why do we need to waste our army? Also, military person who is only trained with rifle, obviously will be tempted to use it. It will only increase the death toll and hamper Indian image.

If a 7 year old boy killed by a bullet, I condemn both the parties. A pro-Kashmiri (anti-India) movement leaders who brought the kid on the street and also the patriotism, which justifies this bullet action on a kid. We need to take care, none of the “ism” or “anti-isms” are above humanism.

2> There is no need for India to assert its presence any more in this state (too much assertion leads to aversion) and also no need for it grant too much to one region (compared to all other states) just because it refuses to be Indian. (I feel, it is an injustice for other states of India who contribute to India’s GDP).

3> When it gets to normalcy, allow the inevitable plebiscite. Never in the history, India has invaded any country, colonized a state. Let Kashmir not be an exception (without people’s wish). I don’t want my country to take over Kashmir with a gun point because China did, Russia did. We have never treaded on their path, no need to follow them now. (In fact I suppose, there was a chance of plebiscite in Vajpayee’s time. He did say, plebiscite can happen but it has to include Azad Kashmir as well. But Kargil invasion hammered indo pak relations again). Personally, I wish for a plebiscite and Kashmir chooses to be with us. But if they think they want to be an independent country in a
Taliban stricken region with wahabi movement already set in, it is a sad thing, but then it is their choice. I can wish good luck to Pakistan as well, as they can have one more Afghanistan as their neighbor.

4>Last and most important thing. India needs to learn emotional detachment from its broken partners. It keeps thinking of it (love you or hate you but can’t ignore you .. sort of) Be it donating during floods to Pak or whatever. It trys to go out of the way, then keep feeling disappointed why Pak doesn’t reciprocate its love. If somebody doesn’t acknowledge, it is fine. We have our life to get on. Pressume plebiscite happened, Kashmir chose to be independent. The venerable situation it is in, and kind of irresponsible leaders they have, there is always a chance of it spiraling downwards.
But then, India should stop thinking that it is India’s responsibility and should never get involved in other country’s business.

Sal, I don’t know your mindset is more of pro-Kashmir or anti-India. Both are not one and the same. If it is pro-Kashmir, you can think of resolving problems from Pakistani side.

Pak asking India to give up its right on Kashmir and India trying to grip it more firmly, is like the story of wind trying to blow the man’s coat out. More the wind blew, the tighter the man held the coat. Whenever Pak asserts more about Kashmir, India feels more unsecured and tries to grip it with more army presence in Kashmir. Till 80s, nobody in India bothered about special status of Kashmir. When Pak supported freedom fighters/militants (versions change), people started asking why a special status for Kashmir.

Instead of blowing more wind, Pak can show us a sun shine. It can lead India by holding plebiscite in Pak side of Kashmir (as it is confident about Azad Kashmir). This act can demonstrate to the world about Pak’s commitment for resolving Kashmir problem. It can also put a question mark on India’s democracy, which really did not give people any choice. This way, Pakistan can build international pressure on India and India will be forced to hold a plebiscite without any excuse.

If your mindset is more of anti-India, you can keep pointing fingers to India and continue the blame game. “If we give independence, you will take it away. You do first” etc. As I said earlier, it is always “anti-isms” which look more attractive and that is what we witness in the name of patriotism.

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@Vinay,
You should be better informed.
In the valley, in last couple of months , the 90 odd stone throwing, setting fire to public property, vehicles etc persons or vandals who have died have died of wounds from tear gas shells or fire-arms fired by Kashmir police ( Not Indian army ). The Kashmir police in valley is 90 plus percent made of local Kashmiri muslims.

Now in Pakistan, Pak army/ISI kills that many just in a day in Waziristan or Swat.
So the last person to shed any crocodile tears should be any Pakistani from that criminal entity called pAKISTAN.

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Bye the way,the basic premise of this blog is false and mischivious propoganda from Pakistani perspective.
Pakistani state and its enlightened citizens claim that they are descendents of Arabs, whom incidentally much of th world considers the worst specimen of humanity .

Any contact with such an entity will at the minimum end in getting defrauded.

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@ Vinod Sharma

“Chutiya..Many many people of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal hates you. They themselves have told me.”

Mr Sharma , this is one such filthy comment from Sal , that shows the true character of Pakistanis. lets see if you have the balls to scold your Pakee brother

[Reply]

Interesting comment by Karzai
——————————————–
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20109\18\story_18-9-2010_pg7_19

“The enemy is headquartered in Pakistan and he should be defeated there. For the US, the expendable part of the Taliban is in Afghanistan. Karzai asserts why should I collaborate with NATO to kill the Afghans they consider expendable?” the aide asked. “Moreover, if Pakistan can survive playing a double game, why cant I,” he added.

( This is from an interview to anti-India, thug journalist Saeed Naqvi, as reported in Pak paper )

So here we have Karzai saying he will start playing double game unless USA stops Pakistan from playing double game in Afganistan and defrauding all.

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@Pankaj and Rajeev,

Pankaj, the first step is to get tri-furcation of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir, as an issue to be discussed in all public forums. So you can

a) Send mailers to all you know as well as to newspapers and newschannels.

b) Send it as a reply posting against any article on Jammu and Kashmir,

At a later stage when the momentum is built up we can go for a website.

Rajeev,

I agree with you that India should use the happenigns in Baluchistan is alever against what Pakistan does in Jammu and Kashmir as well as rest of India. I think the first step would be to highlight it at this blogsite as well as ll public forum on topics of Pakistan as well as J&K.

Let us get to the job !!

PS : I have just posted a reply to Barkha dutt’s article on J&K with our mailer on tri-furcation !!

MOre power to the blogger and the Net !!

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I think we should get beyond insulting each other’s religions!!

However it does not mean that religion’s don’t need reform. If reforms come through internal mechanisms, great. Otherwise we can always point out certain shortcoming in religious practices to fellow citizens of this world and say, “brother.. don’t you think this is inhuman ?”

Let me also state that whay religions fight is over the basic issue of conversion. Why don’t we give up this issue and think of a world where we dont have to convert but allow people to respect and follow the faith they chose as well as admire the good things in other religions???

Jerusalam was the home of Christianity, Jews and Islam. And they were battles till Christians reconciled with Jews. However the same has not happened between Muslims and Christians and Muslims and Jews.

Hope it happens soon….

In contrast India has been the home and the birth ground of Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism and so many other religions, all living peacefully with each other. Christianity came 2000 years back and thrived. And Islam too came in various forms. The violent puritanical form of Auranzewb which believed in conversion and Jaziya was at conflict with other relgions.

The gentle sufi Islam of Akbar with Deen-e- Elahi was loved by all.

I think Muslims in India have a special responsiblity to understand the Islam of Akbar. Maybe that can really be the platform where India serves as the model where Muslims are shown to be in understanding with other relgions.

Let me also state from my personal experience that most Indian Muslims DO NOT want any confrontations with HIndus or Sikhs or Christians. However our media for TRP ratings. and Muslim politicans as well as votebankers, usually wants to pit Muslims against all others. Why?

Why create divides when shared culture and country are the real uniters…..

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Meanwhile…

http://www.hindustantimes.com/We-the-Kashmiri-people/H1-Article1-601933.aspx
……

Many young stone-throwers on the frontlines do not appear like Islamic radicals. They dress well, like music, cellphones and girlfriends are often discussed. Do they do what they do because they believe or does, as the police often allege, money play a part?

“We earned Rs 200 to Rs 300 as daily wage labourers,” says one of a group of masked young stone throwers. “Now we get between Rs 1,000 to Rs 1,500.” Who pays them? “The separatists,” one offers. In a quiet, two-room home with open drains outside, 20-year-old street icon, Owais Ahmed ‘Mandela’, freely admits to receiving money. Where does it come from? He shrugs.

……………..

My comment :
Its because of India’s poor intelligence agencies these problems become severe.
In USA, the source of funding for these vandals would be traced, each of the people who have funded this , wittingly or unwittingly, would be prosecuted and
sentenced to lenghty sentences besides being charged for causing death to the stone throwers for organizing and financing gang activity and violence.

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Bravo, and now the stone pelters are paid….Anything and everything to be believed but they don’t hate us; they love Pakistan; heck we can’t even visit that State; they use for the most part Pakistani Standart time; they watch Pakistan TV GEO; ARY and PTV Drama’s; They dress like Pakistanis; their heart and minds is Pakistani.

My fellow countrymen they don’t need couple of thousand Rupees to throw stones at what they consider occupying forces. The sooner we get out the better for us.

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Pakistan cannot gracefully accept aid from India, as it would puncture the fake history and identity it has sold to its masses. Land of the pure accepting aid directly from lowly Indians in the full glare of the media would have brought about a reality check for the common Pakistani.
Coming to Kashmir, the Islamists are not the majority in the Valley.They only exist in the inner city of urban Kashmir. The Shias, Bakerwals, Gujjars and significantly many women oppose the Islamists.
Calling for U.N. plebiscite and shouting Azadi is an oxymoron. Because the UN plebiscite resolution does not give the option for independence, the option it gives is India or Pakistan. Also why plecbiscite only for the Valley What about POK and more importantly Gilgit and Baltistan (also known as Balawaristan ) The UN resolution mandates India to also hold plebiscites in these two areas after the Pakistani army leaves along with Pakistani civilians.
The Islamists in the Valley are not pelting stones at the Indian army. They know the army would not tolerate ithis pelting nonsense. The last time the army was called it restored order within a week and gave the command back to J and K police.
None of the 102 deaths in the last three months has come from the Indian army. It is the J and K police ( are largely Kashmiri Sunni force.) and when outgunned they request help from C.R.P.F. All the deaths of the past three months have come from the bullets fired by these two forces.This debate about AFSPA and the Indian army are contrived .Its aim is to weaken the Indian army, weakening India’s hold over the Valley, enabling renewed external aggression.
I’m afraid the pelting business will reach its intended climax during the visit of Obama in New Delhi. The ISI and its proxy JI (Geelani) want the Americans to pressure India to remove its army from Kashmir, this would be the quid pro quo for the U.S. safe exit out of Afghanistan.
And Vinay you hit the nail on the heaad about Panun Kashmir being located around Anantnag District. This entity should be a Union territory with central forces.
Who controls Afghanistan and Gilgit Baltistan have huge security implications for India. We simply cannot afford to disengage.

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sharma..u contradict ur own testimony that u dont censor comments….just by having moderator button…do u get it genius..and u like the congress goon and fraud u r know that u cann cdensor us and yet lie about it….u have done it to many comments…

and dont act like a court judge on abuse..we know how ur rules change when sonia and congress call modi mautjke suadagar and dawood and u call him mass murderer…and

the same is not applied to congress sikh killers by rajiv in 1984 or bhopal..

even kid can rebut u congress fed sycophant and goon…

try competing with a7 yr old for a job on merit…

u dont even know that ur first duty is to report facts not hide them like deganga hindu cleansing…but for a fraud who hides godhra tarin and kashmir cleansing

u r hoplessly shamelss and disgusting…

pease let ur daughter marry and migrate to pakistan and save india from ur disgusting genes and blood
with qualities of treason,fraud,corruption and sycophancy for congress crumbs like nmc chair…

no wonder u cannot have an open debate on green terror..but u shamelssly lie i am open to a debate…when u scream about saffron terror..

and imediately forget ur postion that terror has no color or religion

get abrain transplant from an animal..who atleast dont lie..even a snake will do

u r far more fork tongued than them…and get ur daughter out of india before she starts being secularly impregnated by muslims hre like ur idol teesta has…

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What a load of bulldust from bigots at both ends.

None tolerates the ’sensible’ voices – both going for jugular.

I am labelled as an Indian because I have an open mind to question all the wrong policies that Pakistan paddles – No wonder Kamran Shafi, Nadeem Paracha, Irfan Hussain and Ayesha Siddiqa get so much hate mail when they write columns criticising all things Pakistan.

The other side of the border I must admit is equally to blame. Arun is a “Pakee” because he challenges the status quo on all things Kashmir and wants Indians to understand how its own state policies have been a contributing factor to the violence and renewed agitation in the valley

The truth lies somewhere in the middle however accepting that will be a hard swallow for the fringe mob in Pakistan and India.

The fringe mob in Pakistan is totally devoid of reality owing to the ‘Pakistan-brand’ being butt of jokes globally and a withering, ailing and failing nation. There is hope but very remote. The situation is so dire now that the education budget has been slashed massively and the Vice Chancellors of all 72 universities have converged in Islamabad and declaring complete shut down of the universities unless funding restored.

We dont have money to educate our illiterate masses whilst we brow beat India and plan to inflict a thousand cuts and bleed it in Kashmir. What sheer nonsense…

The fringe mob in India is still in denial of a Pakistan that exists and has the right to exist, whilst cherishing at the thought of its enemy-on-its-knees and rubbing its nose. The Pak haters there must be so thrilled at the sight of what Pakistan is today being a shadow of its formal shelf, however feel the right to lecture Pakistanis as if they are sincere in their advice which if followed by Pakistan will result in a happy, healthy, tolerant and prosperous Pakistan that they will be happy to live with..

Those saffron-brigade or just simple plain arrogant and bigoted Indians wont stop name calling, insulting muslims and Pakistan en-masse and lecturing about the virtues and lessons of Indian prosperity but not accepting the fact that their ilk had nothing to do with that prosperity.

The new powerful India is the secular, business friendly and confident India. It celebrates it religious and ethnic diversity and it cherishes its global and emerging role. Those posters that want to take the credit whilst spitting venom against Pakistan and muslims (aka – kill muslim ‘vermens’, porkistan, pakees, and insulting the entire nation), but acutely unaware of the fact that if Indian majority was represented by their ilk, India would still be the global backwater that it was until late 80s.

The intolerant, medieval, bigoted are not unique to any specific nation. They exist and flourish in both. They are the loud minority and want to dictate their loud and fringe views to the largely silent majority.

I view India’s progress as testament to its largely secular and tolerant populace and Pakistan’s misfortunes for its inability to blame itself and to take stock of its current situation but the vast majority of the ‘middle’ Pakistan and India have been absent from these debates and hence vultures from both end get firmly in command of this useless and juvenile rhetoric.

regards

Haris

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Let us show the other side of the coin to these Kashmiri separatists. For too long they have been pampered and subsidised. In fact they carry a truckload of fake grievences in their mind.

Let them fight for a small country of 2500 sq km with Taliban and the Sipahi- e Sabah lusting after their Shia blood.

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There is a simple answer to plesbicite rubbish from the Taleban-jihadis in the valley and else where in Pak.

Yes , there will be plesbicite,
1. once all the Hindus of the valley ( they made about 15% of the population before 1989 ) are re-settled back in their houses in the valley, which are now occupied by others. It will be Jihadis responsibility to evict the illegal occupiers of the houses and bring the Kashmiri Hindus back from all over India, where they are now refugees. The jihadis will pay for there re-settlement back in valley.
The Jihadis will convince the Kashmiri Hindus that they are tolerant, secularists who wont discriminate against any minority or kill them. In fact Jihadis will convince the Hindu refugees that they love Kafirs.

2. Obviously, as per non-Mandatory UN resolution that criminal Jihadis so love and India considers meaningless, Pak has to fully vacate the PoK, including Gilgit and Baltistan and hand it over to Indian security forces before any poll exercise can be held.

Now , since India considers entire J &K , historically and legally part of India, it has no interest in any such plesbicite. However once the Pak-Jihadis meet all the necessary criteria and inform India that the above 2 have been fully met and certified, we will hold plesbicite!

Till then dont cry and make a nuisance of yourself and go back to where ever you came from.

(Meanwhile the millions of Kashmiri Muslims, who vote for Congress, National conference or PDP, and participate in the democratic process, know that there distinct Kashmiri identity is safe only in India. If the criminal Jihadis ever succeeed, the Kashmiri fate will be same as the fate of Sindhis or Baluchis or other minorities in Pakistan.
Thats the reason, why the Taleban jihadis in the valley avoid elections and even when they stand in elections, do very poorly. )

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No one in Azad Kashmir fighting for Azadi, Mr. Rajiv. It is in your J&K where there is a serious insurgency. You are afraid to hold referendum becauce you know you are going to lose, that is a fact. In a way you have already lost in Kashmir, haven’t you? You cry Jihadi all you want, but the fact is its not Jihad Kashmiris fighting, it is Azadi from false secular India, and that is fact as well.

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Once Uncle Sam leaves Afghanistan, your consulates spead across Afghanistan are closed shut, peace will return to Baluchistan. Whereas Gilgit/Baltistan is concerned, you are acting childish by giving reference to the Bawlistan website. It is laughable because no one has heard about it here where I live. I have been to that part of Pakistan two years ago and we can go there any time we want to. I bet you guys can’t do that in Occupied J & K, can you Rajiv.

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Don’t worry, everyone! There is a simple solution to all our problems.
Let Hindus and Muslims, Pakistani’s and Indians, Kasmiri’s and army fight! let them fight until they and us are all DEAD and the land is rid of us self-indulging, violent, competitive, propertarians. Let the Earth become again the Earth without human borders. Only then will there be peace and unity

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Here are some other facts.

1. For thousands of years in the Hindu Society Education was only available to Brahmins. However, some notable exceptions exist, but by and large this is true.

2. Aryans are aliens to the Indian sub-continent where they have for 3 millennia or more, marginalised the indigenous tribes and other sections of the population. So much so that the History of Northern India is synonymous with the History of Aryans.

3. Access to education and other such privileges are still very much governed by one’s caste. Lower the caste more difficult it is for an individual to gain access to education. Significant improvement has taken place over the last 200 years or so mainly due to the policies of the Brits, and none of it due to any change of heart among the conservative Hindu society.

4. The function of reservations is to address inherent in-equalities that exist in our society. We have reservations for a whole variety of criteria. There are reservations to address in-equalities due to religious disadvantages, regional disadvantages, even for children whose fathers served in the forces, etc etc.

5. Opposition to reservation is almost always led by middle class, Hindu upper castes because the change in status quo hurts them the most.

6. To maintain caste based hierarchies of privileges is the main agenda of Hinduatva. It wants to re-establish the rigid caste system and denigrate minorities to a permanent second class citizenship.

7. Whilst I believe the current reservation system can be improved upon, even over-hauled, it remains necessary to create even tiny semblance of equality in our society.

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Reservation coupled with Minority Protection Bill is the volatile combination for experimentation on India as merit is relegated to the back seat. It is designed to push it through its transient phase fof tectonic shift.

After successful implementation of above civilised world can say good buy to India as it will expedite its fall to meet the eventuality, matching Mayan civilisation.

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Muslims never ruled 800 yrs, they ruled parts of India, on an average half of this India for about 500 yrs. Do you say whole muslims have to suffer for the misdeeds of one Syed A Khan? Anyway, if India is a secular and democratic nation run under the present constitution, it has to adopt affirmative action. Otherwise, how would you remove the present systematic social oppresion, suppresion or discrimination? Are you happy with the present morally corrupt society? How would India aspire to become superpower keeping 1/5th of population slave? Under Muslim rule, hindus (brahmins) fluorished, but those who were half hindu (lower class) embraced islam for social dignity. But as the power remained with brahmins, these new muslims were kept oppressed till today.

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About eighty percent of this article justifies reservations for the former rulers of Islamic India and about ten percent of it says that the former Islamic rulers of India should not take the reservation. About ten percent of it is about bashing the people of India who did not succumb to arabization. Something tells me that Zia would have turned out to be a better person if he had stuck to his childhood principle that he wouldn’t read the Koran because it did not have any colorful pictures. He says

“There is, in our Constitution, a clear promise for reservations on the basis of “backwardness”.”

Backwardness of mind can’t be cured by reservation nor can it be used to extort undeserved special benefits to a particular religious community who were the former rulers of India. If “material backwardness” is the criteria for reservation, then I am all for it. Then we don’t need a religious or caste based reservation. I would have had more respect for Zia if he had made that case since that would cover all materially backward people including Muslims without injecting religious poison into reservation just like Zia is trying to do here but to who’s benefit I wonder….

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Very good points but I suspect that it would fall on deaf ears or at least on people who are acting deaf.

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2/3rd of sub-continental muslims are enjoying 100% reservation..Is that not enough? I fail to understand shamelessness of Indian muslims? They were given choice between secular India and theocratic pakistan. If they wanted reservation, they should have moved to pakistan.

The fake sikhs can invent history to suit their interest but it is not going to get thru..If muslims try to push their luck, they are in for huge disaster.

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There should be no reservations for anyone… rules should be the same for everyone, the over glorified, yuppie youth of today are too dazed with gizmos and fast cars to form an opinion leave alone cast their vote, there is a urgent need to change the demographics of political parties being, run by a consortium of landgrabbers, criminals, the scum of the universe, all fundamentalist parties based on religion creed or caste need to be banned or else well all have to immigrate to other places..!

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Zia you are asking for reservation without appearing to be doing so. Any reservation based on communal lines will have disastrous consequences. Infact it is only politics which is keeping reservation for Dalits. We should have got over them by now. Like your community excels in keeping its own people backward smilarly well to do Dalits have grabbed the complete benefits of reservations for themselves and are keeping them alive for own benefits. You have to learn to work hard and get your due by sheer hard work. India gives a fair chance to everyone.

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London to become Londonistan .

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/item/50461-liberalism-fuels-radical-islamism.html?tmpl=component&print=1

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If all Indians really considered each other as co-citizens and the other as precious as oneself, there will be no injustice in society – and one justice is established in the society, all progress and development would follow in due course. Why should a single Indian be discriminated against on any pretext and why is there so much violence and aggressiveness in our society?

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Dude, you never stop. Do you? Give it a rest.

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I think it’s better to reform misguided people than reward them with land for their utter idiocy. Anyways there is not enough land to give off to bigoted religious groups anymore. Anyways I believe that most progressive Muslims are an asset to the country unlike some bad apples like our Zia here.

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Zia should ask himself this question. He says that he writes about “Muslim affairs” for HT. Fine. So why are very few Muslims coming here in this forum for defending his opinions? Are they ashamed of his opinions and don’t consider it mainstream or respect worthy? Take for instance this gem

“Well, there are those who have even denied the Holocaust ever took place.”

Why would any Muslim want to defend this kind of gutter level opinions from Zia which compares the people who think that Muslims are not particularly ill-treated in India with holocaust deniers???
By the way , holocaust deniers of the twenty first century are mostly Muslims led by dear leader from Iran. This is a result of arabization where Muslims who are not Arabs have absorbed the Arab hatred of Jews through their religious networking.

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The weak minded will always find some one to blame. In India, they blame the Hindus and in the UK they will blame the white man. This is a victimhood industry and it’s very profitable for some people.

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No wonder 65% of all bengalis have converted to Islam..

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You seem to be cross between Camel and Donkey.

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The hallmark of muslim societies all over the world especially in non-muslim country is that they depend on Khairaat and always play victim card.
The commonality between muslims living in non-muslim countries-
1. Khairaat dependent.
2. a sense of vicitimhood
3. Cry baby
4. hatred for host country
5. Immense love for fascist muslim countries.
6. No repect for non-muslims’
7. Demand total respect for Islam
8. use of violence
9. propaganda against jews
10. Spread lies like ‘Islam is religion of peace’ (actualy they mean ‘religion of piece’ as they always want to divide host country).
11. Demand secularism when it suits them and demand Sharia where they are in majority.

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Cricket club managers in Hyderabad complained that talented Muslim boys are being ignored for selection of Under-14 and Under 17 teams. They should know that this is not communal discrimination – there are sports agents these days who, in exchange of a fee, guarantee the inclusion of a talented player in any team. There are hundreds of job placement agencies whose task it is to find placements in exchange of fee or commission. So, finally, its all about money exchanging hands, right from a child being admitted in a school to his/her employment after education. Moneyed people can play the game of life, right from education, health, employment to investing in any business. Those who do not have the money, regardless of community, are left behind. And the Hindu society was never known to be an egalitarian one. Hence there is prevalence of discrimination against the weak, and therefore the need of discrimination for – if our country is a welfare state too, apart from being a practically casteist Hindu state.

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13%reservation should be given to high.muslims should have 15% as per numbers.70%to backwards and dalits.

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You are spewing typical muslim propaganda…Divide hindus and enjoy at their cost. We can see thru your designs.

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if u have particular point challenge.read argumentative indians.horses and cows are not indian animal.see ur epics.all kings ang holy people are white evil persons are black brown or blue.

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Well, Sachar report says affirmative action has benifitted greatly to SCs and STs. So why not to poor muslims? They don’t need Hajj subsidy. Sachar report found that only 3% muslim children goes to madrassas, Only poor muslims send their children, because it is completely free and but serves at least two purposes, a low paid job of priest/imam and the religious knowledge to keep the islamic tradition. Jiziya tax is a normal tax to an able non-muslim like a muslim pays the tax (Zakat). Only the names are different. Tax citizens pay everywhere. So don’t put some absurd arguments. Muslims are striving, but need some govt. support.

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“I fail to understand why, if reservation is good for Dalits, is it bad for Muslims”

Who can argue with that? Is that your “winning” argument?

I also failed to understand why, if reservation is good for Muslims, is it bad for all nonmuslims. After all, a significant section of people from the muslim religious group divided the country on religious lines in 1947 resulting in that Islamist cesspool we now call Pakistan which has become a headache not only for India but for the whole world.

That’s my winning argument.

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Egnrich says “because he was blue.not white.only white is divine and worth praising and honour.”

Does that mean WHITE Bush is more divine than BROWN Mohammad? Never knew muslims love Bush so much.

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ravi bahi and shan,a good video,

Libya War Lies – Worse Than Iraq – Video – Thomas Mountain

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the above shows ur lack of knowlledge.except pakistan all muslim countries of the world iincluding saudi arabia run on reason,not on religion.

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Universities like AMU, Jamilia Milia, Hamdard have how many hindu students, and they are good universities

in good facaulties percentage of hindu student is more than 50%.

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what is wrong u bhadrlok ,chang ur skin like lizard to fool inians.40 yrs u became marxist to fight islam.did nothing for indians.enjoyed urslf.u are 13%.take 13%share of national wealth.
u are looting india since arrival of britishers.u were their a$$ licker and bootpolishers.helped them to kill half the population of bengal bihar and orrisa in first 50 years of rule.
muslims always change.for u people it is the same ,vivekanand,tagore and blood thirsty durga from 150yrs.no election ,no change in surrounding is bringing any social or mental change.
poors of bangla desh is in far better position than poorsof wb

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reservation must be cancelledd

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Let all of us really join together to produce real food for eating and then living is meaningful, after all more and more mouths are added day by day whether one like it or not. No point in wasting time on dry issues, for that illogical discussions may cause some Sabarmati express problems but realistic approach will be real Narmada river of life of perennial sustenance.
Life is in body if there is food to eat. No use of dry talks and irrational philosophizing. Life is to be lived meaningfully. It is no use of talk and growth without real food items on plate please.
So politicians are warned that they should not play with lives of people of any community/ies for that will backfire very every one of them.

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Excellent

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