Kayani’s personality transplant



Pakistan is a land of compulsive talkers and conspiracy theorists. People with the least understanding of issues manage to come across as the best informed.

Those who know the most, talk seldom. But when they do, they make sense.

The outcome in either case could be mere theory with no relation to truth. But the experience in lavish living rooms, over delicious meals and choicest drinks (yes, don’t be surprised), is exhilarating. At one such sitting during my recent visit to Lahore, I heard a man of “few words” speak up to share his views on Ashfaq Pervez Kayani’s controversial extension as Chief of the Army Staff.

He said Kayani’s was a “different mind” as the chela (understudy) of Gen. Pervez Musharraf. He’s a changed man now.

As it well known, Musharraf not only kept dialogue going with India. He took it beyond expected lengths to get within striking range of cracking of vexed issues, including Kashmir. What tripped the talkative general were his face-offs on the domestic front.

In contrast, Kayani, on succeeding Musharraf, let it be known that he shared very little of his liberal approach. He was India-centric but in a diametrically different sense. He also talked about strategic depth in Afghanistan with the ambivalence typical of somebody whose aura rested on his elusive ways. On both fronts, he wasn’t good news for New Delhi.

What made Kayani the best choice in a bad situation was his willingness to work with the US. Were he to demit office in November this year, the baton would have got passed to Lt. Gen. Khalid Shamim Wyne, who, as COAS, could’ve been less liberal than even Kayani.

Currently Chief of General Staff,  Wyne retires in 2011. In fact, all except five Pak Lieutenants General, will demit office before Kayani who now stays till November 2013. The exodus will include nine corps commanders and three generals, including ISI chief Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who got a year’s extension in service.

“Wyne could have been more fanatical as Army Chief,” said the “Man Of Few Words.” He’s from the Punjab Regiment and fought wars in Siachen, Balochistan and the North West.

Another interesting gossip— very distinct from the lowdown on Gen.Wyne —- came from a Man About Town who claimed proximity to intelligence organizations and jehadi tanzeems. He charged New Delhi with faking opposition to the Taliban while opening secret contact with their leaders. He even gave out names of Taliban bosses whom some Indian officials met in Jeddah: Abdul Hayee Mutamin, Wakeel Mutawakil and Abdul Salam Zaeef. Mutawakil as we all known played a key role in the aftermath of the Kandahar hijack that saw the release of terrorists from Indian jails in exchange for passengers of the commandeered Indian Airlines aircraft.

“India also approached Mullah Baradar of the Afghan Taliban before the ISI arrested him in Karachi earlier this year,” alleged the Man About Town. Baradar was the Taliban’s second-in-command known for his proximity to Mullah Omar.

Sifting truth from gossip isn’t just difficult in Pakistan. It’s impossible.

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  • Vineet

    Well the military needs to keep India as the Big Bad enemy in order to retain its all powerful position in Pakistan. As is widely said it is an army with a state instead of being the other way around. We should counter this guy with all our force. If he is going to hate us and work against us anyway then let us at least give him a real good reason to do so.

    Sharmaji I see a change in your overall attitude towards Pakistan in the last year or so. You have started talking on the lines of us and them instead of the naive ‘we’.

    [Reply]

    PD Reply:

    I absolutely agree with you, Vineet.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Vineet
    I agree with you. I had also said so sometimes back, but Mr. Vinod Sharma was not prepared to accept.
    I also see a change in the attitude of anchors of various talks shows on TV. That is especially so with Barkha who had mentioned a few days back on her show “The Buck stops here” that she was reluctant to speak in a tone which would seem a tilt to Pakistan lest a whole army of bloggers punce upon her on the internet.
    The conclusion: Growing strength of middle class section of the society who can aee through the double standards of politicians and the media people.
    BNA

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  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    “Pakistan is a land of compulsive talkers and conspiracy theorists”

    finally Mr Vinod Sharma is showing readiness to concede the truth.

    by the way what makes you think that Musharraf was a liberal minded and bent on improving relations with India. Mr Sharma , please stop taking Hasheesh and Maryjone

    [Reply]

    PD Reply:

    Musharraf was most cunning general I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

    [Reply]

    Vinod Sharma Reply:

    @Vineet
    What did I write to make you feel that I am coming around to your views dear. First of all, may I know your views in some detail? Also, no perspective can be forever enduring in these rapidly changing times. I shape my views in line with the ground realities. My basic position of holding talks and seeking normal ties with Pakistan hasn’t changed. What changes sometimes is the context.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    you didn’t respond to the “Maryjone” allegation ;-)

    [Reply]

  • Joe Singh

    India should cease negotiating with a weak and degenerating neighbour which has no intention of reciprocating India’s sincerity. Peace has eluded India for over 60 years due to the birth of a a very hostile neighbour.

    India should concentrate on its economy and is well on its way to becoming one of the largest economic powers in the world. With the newly acquired wealth she should build schools, hospitals, improve sanitation and hygiene, rapidly build its infrastructure, keep to its secular ideals and its resilient and brave people will sustain and safeguard its democratic institutions, thereby forging unity irrespective of religion, ethnicity, caste or creed in this nation. All Indians, even the Muslims, will feel part of this great nation and express themselves in the mainstream and in every field.

    Before such a great Hindustan what damage can a single religion, militarily run, corrupted, ungovernable, disunited and riotous nation do? Slowly it is killing itself. After so many decades of independence it still lives on American cash handouts. It is, in fact, its own worst enemy.

    We have to gradually increase our surveillance and vigilance and guard our people against any further harm that this vicious enemy may plan. A greater economic power is also a greater military power and that in itself is a deterrent.

    Japan and Germany lost the war to America because America was a bigger economic power, not because the Americans had cleverer generals or braver soldiers.

    Vande Mataram,

    J Singh

    [Reply]

    srs Reply:

    We don’t need to go very close to Pakistanis. If we do then they’ll come over here as a sweet friend/s then claim our homes as theirs will never go back.

    [Reply]

    Bhutto Reply:

    dear let me tell u that u all hve reservations on pakistan’s sincerety why don’t u look at your country its defence expenditure is 10 times more than pakistan! Its idian who r involed in arm race as they first created Nuclear weapons compelling pakistan to build its own! agar aap samjhtey hen k pakistan itna chota mulk ho k b india pe attack kreyga to hum kese yaqeen kareen aap india pr k wo hameen chor dega????? Everybody wants to live with peace no body wants war bcuz its dirty game!! Remember war occurs only when one country is stronger than the other which encourages the stroger to attack the weaker and take control of its resources!! Samajh mein aya kuch India k rehney waloon! Behtar insan bano koi religion nafrat nahn sikhata?? Hum Musalman hen humein kisi se darr nahn lagta sawaee us se jis ne ye dunya baai hey! or yahi eik waja hey k India kitna bara b powerful ho jaey kisi Musilim country se panga nahn le skta!! got it idiots

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    vm Reply:

    “you say speak your mind”.Here is the truth.So far out of 64 years of independence congress government in India has ruled and kashmir problem came during their time.It was congress government who amended constitution and created 370 article. Result we have all kind of problems from pakistan.Kashmiri muslims are crying foul ever day blame every thing on indian armed forces , rapes,killing youths(stone pelters ).Kashmiri muslims are sheltering pakistani terrorist and armed forces are vunerable from both sides hostile people and terrorist.Our government still want to change hearts and minds of kashmiri people which bappu(father of the country) could not able to do.Until we throw out this nikkami government in next election we hindus will suffer more.One thing more our government has created two personal laws one called hindu law and other muslim law.Muslims can marry four times where as hindu will be sent in jail.Current government wants to make again hindus slaves of muslims.Hindus has to wake up. Come to the current topic about Mr Kayani he is same as others India haters nothing has changed.For them we are kafirs,infedils nothing else.

    [Reply]

    girish Reply:

    Dear Bhutto..

    i totally agree with ur facts
    1.indian defence expenditure
    2. Stronger Conutry will attack weaker. blah blah..

    Could you please tell me just few things..

    1.Who started the 1965 war?..1971 war??? 1999 war?? . If u have any doubts please go through the Wiki DOCS and first correct ur facts..

    2.U said “Hum musalmano ko Darr nahi lagta” agreed…but Pakistanio ko lagta hai..kyuonki ur country is the only country who surrendered against the indian army in 1971 war ( record 70000 prisoners )..or isliye hi aapki country ab terrorism ka sahara le rahi hai..because they dont have guts to fight … or isliye hi aapki country 1999 ki war main yehi kahti rahi ki yah hamara kam nahi hai…if u do have any doybts about partipication of ur contry in 1999 war then please go throgh some internet stuff..which will tell u about the some of pakistani soldiers who were awarded during that war !!!

    3. and finally regarding india’s defence expenditure: in numbers its more than that of Pakistan..but in case of % expenditure of GDP and % expenditure on per capita it is much smaller than that of Pakistan..

    Please correct ur facts and then spit something from ur mouth..

    but yeh app logo ki galti nahi hai…problem aap logo ki defence forces main hai..jinka apni countrymen se koi matlab nahi hai..app logo ko to abhi aadhi chizzen pata bhi nahi hoga..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Bak…Bak..Musalmano ki bund lagi hai..aur ye gadha kahta hai musalman darta nahin..What a joke!!!

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    hamza Reply:

    joe singh and rajeev:

    the indianness of your comments is discernable just by the kind of low life nonsensical and grandoise aims it displays. the reality is in fact quite different than what you have stated. the reality is that india is by far no economic power. the greatest economic power in the region is, and will always be, china. the second economic power is russia. if indians have any dreams, they must pass both (unlikely if not impossible). pakistan is a country of a 170 million people. it is a functioning democracy, and though economically weak right now, it will not be this way forever. apart from this, the disparity between GDP of the two countries is not anything to gloat over. india’s 1 billion population is ten times pakistans, and creates humongous poverty and social issues. apart from this, india suffers from a weak judicial system, a corrupt police force, insurgencies in several states along the famous red corridor and kashmir, as well as a weak government that is unable to make difficult decisions. indians need to wake up and stop dreaming about being the next USA or something. hahahaha….

    [Reply]

  • http://Hindustantimes.com Anil Ruparelia

    You can never trust these Islamiists. They are all out to destroy the Indian values and Hinduism. These people are snakes in the the grass waiting for an oppertunity to strike India. We have to be on guard 24/7. You cannot trust Pakistan period.

    [Reply]

    srs Reply:

    Yes you’re right, Anil.

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    hamza Reply:

    keep telling yourself that. muslims believe you can never trust your hindutva kind….moon pay raam raam aur haat mein churah. pakistan has nothing to gain from ’striking’ india. you can have your shit hole country to yourself.

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  • Gungadin

    It is intersting that Kayani has been given(more likely he took it) an extension of three years. This way Gilani the khali samosa has ensured that there will not be an army coup during his tenure as PM. However, one wonders what happens to those army officers who were in the run for the top rank? They get sidelined just like that? They all would have sweated it out all their lives to achieve their cherished dream of becoming the Army Chief. Is there no career planning in the Pakistan army?

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    Nadir, USA Reply:

    They have asked to shut their mouths with the American dollars. After all where is the five billion dollar unaccounted money go out of 10billion given to them. Watch the show ! Unique country with wretched people and dirty brains.

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    hamza Reply:

    where is the dollars that your politicians ate during the cold war it was getting from the soviets you rat *******?

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    18/11 Reply:

    This what their character is. Cheating etc.

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  • Dev Saha

    We are probably revisiting and experiencing the end of last few years of US-Russia cold war. The better economy survived even though Russia had plenty of bombs to throw at US. The economy gave in and Russia was cut into its proper size. Pakistan got exactly the same problems and with the current flooding, the country has finally got the message that nobody like Pakistanis, its puppet government and the military. The country is totally bankrupt. Kayani could be a moderate or jehadi whatever he wants to be but he would not be able to change Pakistan to a progressive prosperous country. Pakistan needs a face saving solution and Kayani may not get one from India. He will make some comments now and then and that should be ignored as just background noise from another Pak old ****!

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  • http://hindustantimes.com Riaz Kashmiri

    Most of the Indian writers in HT are prejudice. They just know hatred and want to talk all bad even if it is has no sense at all. You, Indians must understand that Pakistan is smaller country than India and its issues are very different than yours. We have a big neighbor on the east whom we can not trust at rate. This neighbor has been stubborn in settling the issues peacefully. Always following a policy of bullying its immediate neighbors. Be it Sri Lanka, Nepal or Bangladesh and Pakistan. Contineous ignoring the United Nations Security Councils resolutions on Kashmir is a big blunder. Indians may say…it is not valid..but it is an issue of over 63 years. Kashmir needs to be solved any way. More than 80.000 Kashmiris have sacrificed their lives for freedom. And do not forget, Kashmir is for Kashmiris only. India has nothing to do with it. India need to be fair with the Kashmiris and Pakistan.

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    Hindi Reply:

    No Riaz Mia, Kashmir is not just for Kashmiris ,it is for the whole of India, Peace in the Indian su-continent will come only when Pakistan is broken up in Panjab,( Mohajiristan is carved out of Sindh), Sindh & Balochistan.NWF Pathans could join up wih their Afghani bretheren & createa Pashtuistan.Oh, Yes let’s not forget POK. It must join up with Indian Kashmir.

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    Rajeev Reply:

    God willing this will happen..

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    hamza Reply:

    God willing your mom will stop sprouting hair on her lip…

    Indian Reply:

    Kashmir has Kashmiri Pundits too, which own the half the Kashmir, they don’t want separate Kashmir, they want to stay with India and don’t want to go to Pakistan become slaves, who is behind killing 80,000 people? it is your brother Pakistan, don’t blame India for that, Indian Army defend the country from these evil forces.

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    Kushagra Reply:

    There is no question of another partition of India. Anyone in Pakistan actually believes that Kashmir can be separated from India is living in fool’s paradise. Its ok if India and Pakistan are not friends. We have fought for 63 years, let it go on for the next 100 years. Pakistan tried to break Kashmir from India and in the process lost its own Bangladesh. Think about it!

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    khan Reply:

    Bangladesh was 1000 miles away, there was no point of having a country like this to begin with. Kashmir is next door. For your info, Pakistan still has Azad Kashmir. How about lets go on for 1000 years with thsi mentality, you think pakistan cannot survive, we tell you, think twice. With the immense rise of China, its india who may/may not survive…cheers

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    Rajeev Reply:

    China is not saving you from floods..do you think it will save you from India?

    23/11 Reply:

    Pakistan has identity crisis. They need to go to psychologist for therapy otherwise they will never be treated fully.

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    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Riaz Kashmiri

    you Kashmiris need a good kick on your arses. you have been making a mountain out of mole hill. the fact is that you dont deserve any sympathy , but a good thrashing

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Riaz Bhai – Kayani ki ‘Personality Trasplant’ Main Kashmir Kahan Se Ghus Gaya? By the way what mistrust is caused to you by India? About which resolution of Kashmir you are talking? Is it the following resolution?
    “1. UN Resolution (Document No. S/1100, Para 75, dated 9th November, 1948) PART I (Cease-fire Order) para B states: “The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals “forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).” Here reference to “organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities” clearly denotes the tribesmen from Pakistan’s side in PHK.
    2. Please also refer Part II (Truce Agreement) para A (2) & (3): “(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting. (3) Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission”.
    Please enlighten us that other than this resolution, to which resolution both India and Pakistan have agreed? Don’t make fool of yourself. It is not India but Pakistan which skirts the Resolution in its letter and spirit. The dispute about Kashmir is only as regards to the territory you call as ‘Ajad Kashmir’ and we call it as ‘PHK’. As Pakistan calls it ‘Azad’ hence, in its own terminology, it is an aggressor to this territory.
    Riaz Bhai Aap Kaun Se Kashmiri Ho? Pre-partitioned J&K Ke Ho, Ya PHK Ke? It is not India which negated UN Resolutions, it is Pakistan which negated it since inception. Please read Mr. Noorani’s article in Dawn at http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/consensus-on-kashmir-550 .
    It is the dilemma of Pakistan as to the vacation of territory occupied by it as pre-condition for any plebiscite and that too is basically in PHK. It is Pakistan, which was periodically raising and dropping the plebiscite issue. Please read following from aforesaid article:

    “What is the status of the Kashmir dispute today? Since 1990 even the US ceased to talk of the UN resolutions. In February 1958 Prime Minister Feroz Khan Noon (of Pakistan) met the US envoy to the UN, Henry Cabot Lodge, in Karachi. Ambassador James M. Langley recorded: “Noon made no mention of a plebiscite and it seemed to me that he was clearly thinking of a compromise which would provide for a territorial division between India and Pakistan.”
    Noon was no traitor. A few months earlier on April 29, 1957, the UN mediator on Kashmir Gunnar Myrdal had, in his report, pronounced those resolutions as virtually obsolete: “The situation with which they were to cope has tended to change.” That was 50 years ago. On March 23, 1962 Ayub Khan was prepared to drop plebiscite if India offered an alternative. The Z.A. Bhutto–Swaran Singh talks (1962-3) centered on a partition line in Kashmir; not on plebiscite.”
    It is in this context India negates Pakistan’s any claim to PHK and demands its territory back. It is in this context every nation says that UN Resolutions on plebiscite are redundant and Pakistan is mum as it suits them. It is the precise reason for which Indian say that somewhere in our dealings with Pakistan; India is compromising its sovereignty over the land known as PHK.

    Riaz Sahib – Kashmir was always a part of India from time immemorial. Please look towards entire India for friendship, as Indians do, and not crock Kashmir? Please let us know what are your views of the part of Kashmir under Pakistan’s occupation, though Pakistan calls it as ‘Azad Kashmir’? Calling yourself Kashmiri ….. !!!, please enlighten us whether ‘Azad Kashmir’ is really AZAD or is it Pakistan Held Kashmir (PHK)? As an occupational force whether PHK is also under Pakistani bully? What do you know about freedom struggle, when you yourself are never Azad and harp only on religious bigotry? Live in peace man….. !!! Don’t come on such sites without preparation. May God bless you.

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    Kushagra Reply:

    Terrific response! Please advise from where can I get detailed factual information on 1948 agreements between India and Pakistan?

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    SKChadha Reply:

    Collect the information at http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/sasia.htm. Note the differences between resolutions agreed by India & Pakistan and other resolutions which are not agreed either by India or Pakistan or rejected by both. UN SC resolutions are not a binding force till accepted by parties to it.

    Kushagra Reply:

    Thanks @SK Chadha

    abrar Reply:

    How come so many Indian bloggers are bigoted.Not a single Indian poster has a practical and objective comment.You claim “democray” but show bigotry.

    Rohit from Canada Reply:

    Excellent solution, Vinod. Mr Chadha Three cheers for letting people like Riaz understand the true history of Kashmir. The irony is that POK is actually a integral part of India and that the Indian Govt is not raising this issue in the world stage more sternly. We got to deal with this issue sternly as written by Vinod, and not get bullied by the Pakistanis just because they are better orators than our bunch of ministers. We need a Modi to deal with Pakistanis not Manmohan.

    Jai Vaidya Reply:

    Abrar
    Do you think that Bakarwals ,Gujjars,Shia,Kashmiri Pandits,Sikhs,Dogras,Ladhakis are with your “movement”,most peaple in India have recognized your”movement” for what it is,a ISI inspired script.you absolutely no words for our ladhakis brothers who are in the
    idst of a greT trajedy.Why do the peaple of Ladakh and Jammu have to the priceP of this Kashmiri negligence.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar – We need your objective comments?

    abrar Reply:

    Stop being an “Ostritch’ and acknowl edge the indigineous character of the kashmir freedom movement,remove the 600,000 ‘occupation force’ that has treated the locals as such.Negotiate with Kashmiris and Pakistanis the implementyation of the UN resolution.

    Most of all saying “kashmir is an integral part” has no cribility outside of India and it is not .Once these points are acknowledged and implemented Indian Govt will be in a position where other parties to the dispuite will be willing to come to the negotiation table to end this thorn that is a source of instability for 63 years in the region.

    Raja Hussain Reply:

    @Abrar, you please stop being an Ostrich. There WAS UN resolution, but after Shimla Conference there is none. Shimla conference specifically stipulated to resolve the Kashmir issue internally and not by a third party mediator (UN). So why would India backtrack? India is 100% right in sticking to Shimla conference, it is Pakistan who is back tracking from Shimla Conference. And please don’t give excuse that Pakistan agreed for Shimla Conference to get its 90,000 POW of 1971 war. POW are treated under Geneva Convention and India couldn’t have kept them more than six month…

    Rajiv Reply:

    Communal , sectarian separatist spokesman Mr Geelani says ‘Muslims feel like fish out of water in a non-Muslim state’ !!!

    Well India is a secular, diverse, democratic state. If Mr Geelani wants to live in a Muslim state, he has many options. If he feels like ‘fish out of water’ he should leave the Indian pond and move into the Taleban/Pak-Jihadi pond and not try to muddy the Indian pond.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    And you hindus hate Muslims and Islam then why do youbeg to go to those countries? Millions of you living in Muslims countries, who inturn are feeding millions back in your slumdog.

    Rajiv liar show me proof about Hindus being murdered in the thousands and being chased out of Pakistan?

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Azhar Soower Hussain

    millions of Hindus living in Muslim countries!!!! do you even know how much a million is?? madrassa educated b@st@rd.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar Sahib – I am happy to have at last your objective comments … !! I don’t know why you are still silent to UN Resolution of 13.8.48 which Pak says is redundant and so all nations around the world. Despite the resolution you are silent about the occupational forces and tribes settled in PHK after independence. Please read the history, it is Pak occupational forces which ventured in this independent territory as also injected tribal which forced Raja Hari Singh to sign document of accession with India. In fact, it was Pak’s error which placed Kashmir in India’s lap. If you have doubt, I quote from Pak Air Chief M Asghar Khan’s version from his book “My Political Sruggle” as under:

    “During the formative period of Pakistan, whilst I was commanding the Pakistan Air Force Flying Training school at Risalpur, I was involved in supporting the operations in Kashmir. In October 1947, my brother Major Aslam Khan, was actively involved in the fighting in the Muzaffarabad sector of Kashmir where he led a group of Pakistan Army volunteers and tribesmen. After the capture of Muzaffarabad he led the assault on Baramula and moved on to a spot just a few miles from Srinagar. Indian Army re-enforcements had by that time begun to arrive and Brigadier Sher Khan, director of military operations at GHQ, decided to move Major Aslam Khan to Gilgit to organise and lead the operations in the northern areas of Kashmir. Major Aslam Khan handed over command of the operations in the Muzaffarabad/Srinagar sector to Lieutenant Colonel Akbar Khan and moved to Gilgit.

    As commander of the air force at Risalpur I assisted these operations by transporting individuals and supplies to Gilgit in Harvard trainer aircraft and later in DC 3 (Dakotas). My younger brother Anwar Khan, also of the Pakistan Army, was operating in the Gilgit area and continued to do so for some time.”

    Abrar Sahib “Kuveny Ke Mendhak Ki Tarah Mat Tarrao”. Read the facts and history. During partition not only Kashmir, but there were 562 princely states in the sub-continent which were not part of British India but known as “suzerainty of the British Crown”. The British Crown abandoned them and given them a choice to accede to either India or Pakistan or remain outside them.It is Pakistan which by its attack put J&K in India’s lap during partition. Once accession is signed and India acted upon in protection of territory, the question of going back in history is shut. My friend, no constitution in world, except USSR, provided true federalism where a state is permitted to join or leave the Union. Pak political class has made and even now making fool of its citizenry by harping on Kashmir. It is Pak’s historical deeds which made only Kashmiri and India, as parties on negotiating table. Pak which itself declare PHK as “Azad” looses any right to even talk about Kashmir with India. Why India should talk with any third party who himself state that for them PHK is ‘Azad’ and having its own PM. As to Kashmir why not India talk to that PM. That is why our talk if any with Pakistan about Kashmir is to leave the occupied territory, remove its entire infrastructure, whether of terror or otherwise. Till this goal is achieved, India is prepared to talk to Pakistan only about vacation of PHK or for betterment of Kashmiri. I may be an ‘Ostritch’ but I donot know what you are croaking? By the way who are you before whom GOI acknowledge any points? Man Na Man Main Tera Mehmaan”. Enjoy man … !!! Kashmir Ke Alawa Aur Bhi Gam Hain Zamane Main” Please see other problems otherwise you will also be drowned in your own problems?

    Rajiv Reply:

    Listen what Afganistan’s national security adviser has to say :
    —————————————————————————————

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20108\24\story_24-8-2010_pg7_10

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/US-support-of-Pakistan-strategic-mistake/articleshow/6423050.cms

    ‘US support of Pakistan strategic mistake’

    WASHINGTON: A senior Afghan official is urging the United States to re-evaluate its friendship with Pakistan, accusing the country of supporting Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremists as it plays a double-game.

    Writing in Monday’s Washington Post, Afghanistan’s national security adviser Rangin Dadfar Spanta said Pakistani policy has helped maintain a level of violence that is leading to the erosion of Western support for the war.

    US-led troops are deployed with a mission to fight extremist groups, but the task “has been compounded by another strategic failure: the mistaken embrace of ’strategic partners’ who have, in fact, been nurturing terrorism,” he wrote.

    “While we are losing dozens of men and women to terrorist attacks every day, the terrorists’ main mentor continues to receive billions of dollars in aid and assistance. How is this fundamental contradiction justified?” Spanta wrote.

    Pakistan and Afghanistan have long had a fraught relationship. Pakistan was the main supporter of the hardline Taliban regime but switched sides overnight after the September 11, 2001 attacks, becoming the frontline US partner.

    The United States last year approved a 7.5 billion-dollar aid package for Pakistan and has played a lead role in assistance during major floods, hoping its helping hand will reduce rampant anti-Americanism.

    US officials credit Pakistan with stepping up the fight against homegrown Taliban, including through a blistering assault in its tribal northwest last year, but many believe Pakistani intelligence has maintained links with extremists targeting Afghanistan and historic enemy India.

    Spanta acknowledged bluntly that international support has dropped for the Afghan campaign, writing: “Global opinion has also turned against us.”

    While acknowledging Western concerns were partially due to Afghanistan’s corruption, Spanta also pointed to Pakistan, saying: “We have failed to mobilize people for a cause where the fighting is in one place and the enemy is in another.”

    Many experts believe that Pakistan’ top goal in Afghanistan is ensuring it can exert influence after the US pullout. President Barack Obama wants to start removing combat troops in mid-2011.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Basically USA’s stupidy meets Pak duplicity and the results in Afganistan are for all to see..

    vm Reply:

    Sir you can get every resolution so far on kashmir through google.com or united nations resolutions on kashmir.But if you can not find i can email you all of them.Please send your email address.According to UN resolution of 1948 pakistan being called aggressor and was suppose to take his armed forces back from kashmir and thereafter plebiscite could have been done but pakistan did not pull out his troops so far.Now some part is occupied by china like aksai chin and part given in gift to china by illegaly by pakistan. Until china also vacate plebisite can not be done.To cut to the short there is no solution except India should amend its constitution and repeal article 370 so that retired hindu army personal can go settle there.Our Mahatma gandhi won independence from Britishers but not from muslims.Mr Kayani is same as others.He was also ISI chief and sent thousands of terrorist to kill hindus in kashmir and other parts of India.Pakistan want to destroy hinduism from India nothing else.

    Raja Hussain Reply:

    Chadda Bhai, A befitting reply…thanks yaar… lekin tum kise yeh jawab de rahe ho… I have lived with Pakistanis and trust me the general population is not bad at all, but the worst thing they have is, they never get their facts right… Moreover they believe there can not be anything wrong in Pakistan, although we know its the 10th FAILED state in the World (Riaz Kashmiri — padh rahe ho???). The same problem lies with Kashmiri people, they think with Pakistan they will be better off. Go and visit Karachi, those who migrated from India after partition still cry for their bad luck of making a move from India to Pakistan. They are still called Migrants (Mahajirs). Go check with poor Biharis, who believed in 1971 that Pakistan is better place to live and voted for West Pakistan. Those Biharis are still in Bangladesh living in Camps, waiting for their beloved country (Pakistan) to accept them…. 39 years…
    So please Riaz Bhai…don’t behave like an ignorant, get your facts right and accept it that Kashmir is part of India and IT IS NOT GOING ANY WHERE!!! Live in Peace!…:)

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Raja Bhai – “Is Zamin Pe Jahan Bhi Lakeer Khichi Hai Who Hamne Hee Khinchee Hai, Ishwar Ya Khuda Ne Nahin”. One thing which hurts me is that the voices emanating from Pakistan are stuck up in past history or religious identity of the nation and Kashmir is its distinctive part. This may be due to our tumultuous past or due to factors contributed in our division? Not only Kashmir but UP, Bengal, Sindh, Punjab etc. have faced the scars on this count only. Pakistan may distort the history books or engage in rhetoric, but it has to accept that the ‘Lakeer’ is a legacy which is their own creation and they have to live with it till they desire to remove it by heart. In India we have seen enough sectarian violence and separatist noises but nobody could break us what to talk of thousand cuts? Indians are living and willing to live together in a secular and democratic way and pray God that all our neighbors may also live in peace in whatever way they want to live.

    Aj Reply:

    @ Riaz

    Kashmir is for Kashmiris in the same manner as Punjab is for Punjabis; Maharashtra is for Maharashtrians…you get the picture. Not sure what independence will give you or who are you even seeking freedom for. I don’t think there is any problems in Kashmir that doesn’t exist in other parts of India except that of terrorism and that certainly is supported by we know who. Go check the three wars fought between India and Pakistan and see for yourself who attacked whom. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts)

    As far as Pakistan is concerned, your biggest problem is not India but very much like India, its “illiteracy”. Further, you don’t have any democracy and growing fundamentalism. You have much bigger problems than India man.

    Last, please ignore Paritosh’s comment. He seems to be an idiot.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vinod ji,
    Are you talking about heart burn in senior Pakistani Generals due to Kayani’s extension? Is other Pakistani Generals are on board with Kayani’s Afghanistan policy? Whether ISI’s recently dropping India centric approach re and considering Terrorists as their enemy No. 1 is part of such fissure in Pak Army? Please enlighten us about your views on it.

    [Reply]

    Vinod Sharma Reply:

    @SKChadha
    When a sitting chief gets an extension or takes an extension, others in the line back him as an act of disipline, not as much out of loyalty or genuine respect for his leadership. They also follow his policies out of discipline — not as much in agreement— as is evident from Kayani’s change of stance post-Musharraf.
    Someone on this blog had asked as to why I called Musharraf a liberal? Well, he took the talks forward, kept his promise of a ceasefire on the LoC and the international borders and stoppped harping on the UN resolutions on Kashmir. In fact, during his time, the Pak position showed signs of a radical shift —- from new borders to no borders (in Kashmir) to have a solution without changing the territorial status quo.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vinod ji
    Can we proceed or are we proceeding forward in our talks with Pakistan, from where we left with Musharraf or we have to hang around for long?

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vinod,

    “Solution without changing territorial status quo” … ? What is present public opinion in Pakistan? Is it acceptable by and large to them including the present military establishment?

    One more thing, your writing smacks that discipline in Pak Army is holding fissures. It is true that this is whining out, due to its idling against India over a decade? Is it likely to lead in political polarization in Uniform?

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Thx Praveen,

    I am just posting a solution which is good for India– and for the Buddhists, HInsus, Sikhs and Muslims of Kashmir!!

    I hope it is taken in that spirit !

    Vinod Sharma Reply:

    @SK Chadha
    Fatigue sest in when an incumbent chief overstays. Musharraf wouldn’t have gone if the Army didn’t want him to. For now, I am not quite sure whether we can pick up the threads from where we left with Musharraf. There is too much of chaos and destruction these days in Pakistan.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Yes, it is a pitiable situation for normal citizenry. May God give them strength to overcome the present catastrophe? The irony is that the people who are not responsible for the present state of affair of Pakistan are the most sufferers of the natural disasters.

  • Rohit from Canada

    The Kashmiris harp about the United Nations resolution without knowing the details. For a referendum on Kashmir the complete area of Kashmir including POK and the parts given away by Pakistan to China will have to considered. Why the hell these Kashmiris don’t go after Pakistan to get that sorted out first. What are they going to do with a independent Kashmir anyway, they will be landlocked and the only option will be to join with Pakistan who are beggars and cannot even support themselves or be taken over by the Chinese. Indian govt should stop financing Kashmir and let them be like POK and let them rot maybe then they will appreciate what India is doing for these lazy people. If they have brains they should concentrate on doing hard work and make their state prosperous with the help of India rather than waste time on fighting for Azad Kashmir, which India will never agree for, whatever may happen. How long the jihadis will shoot their own children to blame the CRPF. It is amazing that only children are getting killed everyday, does this whole thing not smell of conspiracy.

    [Reply]

    Abdul Majid Zargar Reply:

    I barely find any one talking sense.It appears that hate is the commodity acquired, stored & disposed in every direction. This does not augur well for a country like India.Discuss any subject & people will rope Islam in it. Even well educated people spread cannards & falsehood.When this is the case with people, who are educated & economically well off, what must be in the minds the remaining people, can only be guessed.
    God save India & the whole globe.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abdul Zargar Sahib – Islam is a colourful 1400 years old strong pillar. It is known for its beautiful teachings. The light emitted by this beautiful pillar is showing the right path to masses world over. The problem is that there are number of donkeys those are tied to this pillar only. They are not willing to venture in wild. These donkeys see at each other and cry for their own plight. Even the beautiful light of Islam is blinding their otherwise normal vision. Not only that, they expect that people those are venturing in wild will bring some ‘Charra’ (wealth) for them to eat and they will sleep in peace.
    Come on Zargar Sahib, at least ask such donkeys to lose their string and see that the beauty, Charra (wealth) and education are spread all over the Globe. If these donkeys are slightly away from the pillar, the light which is presently blinding them will also show them the right path. Please correct me if I am wrong and pardon me?

    [Reply]

  • raj

    India shold attak Pakistan now. This time never come back. Half of Pakistan is underwater and India shold get kashmir by force.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Vinod,
    A couple of points about “liberal” attitude on Musharraf’s part that you allude to.
    At the outset, I must differ with you on Musharraf being liberal for the very basic reason of his being instrumental in the Kargil misadventure. Does it indict Musharraf ? Yeas an No – both. Yes beacause of Kargil. No – because his wonderful involvement in building up the “peace process” (resorting here to stereotyped phrase …) , in fact so much so that he and Vajpayee(ji) developed excellent personal chemistry. So much so that it was only the ailing ex-PM he wanted to mmeet during his latest India visit. None amongst the subsequent premiers of state – from both sides of border – ever felt it necessary to personally invest as much in repairing the relationships. That said, I still think he could at best be termed a pragmatist – in the same sense as Vajpayee(ji) would be termed a pragmatist for his outlook and policies. Politically speaking , Musharraf’s so called “liberal” attitude would perhaps measure much less liberal compared to inah or – even – Imran Khan (perhaps one of the first mainstream ploitician to challenge the drones attack).
    Another point is about personal political tastes. Do these really matter ? Especially so when the political leanings end up being a “statement” in public discourse – mostly subservient to the contemporary situation. Who knows, with Qayani too it may end up being “love is in the air” with us (India).
    Cheers,
    Mahesh.
    p.s.: Anybody from Pakistan reading this comment – please feel free to add your perspective on Imran Khan’s legal challenge to the drones attack. Also, I would love to know how Moyinuddin Qureshi’s (Pak finance minister in early 90s) economic measures failed to take off.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    @Mahesh

    Imran Khan has challenged the drone attacks and even UN stated that attacks were illegal. But nothing is illegal, till uncle Sam says so. The whole west follows that rule, the more powerful make and break laws. But then again our government is in hand and glove with these cross-border incursions.

    You know right now there is no power on earth which can oppose what uncle Sam wants to achieve.

    “Also, I would love to know how Moyinuddin Qureshi’s (Pak finance minister in early 90s) economic measures failed to take off.”

    The only which our leaders are capable of taking off, is you guessed it CORRUPTION.

    Once we manage to hang this blood suckers, then only things are going to change.

    Good Day Mahesh

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Azhar – What basically went wrong in FMs talks, which resulted in hostilities? Can you give some clue. This position was not their till Interior Ministers have discussions? The basic problems are at Home level wereas hostilities were expressed at FMs talks. I fail to understand?

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Imran Khan also supports the taliban. He showed no remorse when the Taliban drove out the Sikhs and Hindus from NWFP and Afghanistan.

    He spoke no words of solace for the women who are forced to wear Burka like tents by the Taliban nor when they are caned or shot dead for talking to men.

    Imran may flirt with Indian girls.. and some seventy year old aunties like Parmeshwar Godrej have the hots for him, but despite having fun in Mumbai, he goes back to Pakistan and is no different from Mull Omar in his thinking and love for the Taliban.

    He even accused India for being behind the attacks on the Lankan team, in the typically lying Pakistani style. And that too on NDTV.

    Let us not think that he is a liberal just because he speaks English and wants “fun” in India.

    He is CLOSET TALIBAN….

    Vinod Sharma Reply:

    Dear Mahesh,
    Musharraf was a liberal compared to Zia and Aslam Beg. He was more in the mould of Ayub Khan till 2006-07 when hit by a gail of protests by lawyers and Baloch nationalists. He ordered the raiding of the Lal Masjid, showed willingness to move away from the UN resolutions on Kashmir, promised no use of Pak territory for spread of terror and had ceasefire enforced along the LoC and the international border.
    When I call him a liberal, I mean his “enlightened moderation” wasn’t an empty promise. He failed because he wasn’t adequately political and was let down by those on whom he reliled for advice (the PML-Q elements who worked overtime to subvert any understanding between Musharraf and Benazir).

    [Reply]

  • Touseef Kashmiri

    @ all Indian Brothers…………
    we dun have anythng to do either wid India r Pakistan, Kashmir was an independent country b4, is an independent country n wil remain, go india go……..here we r adresin 2 indian govt n indian army, we dun hate indian citizens……
    y u guys r always worried abt Pak???
    u shud in fact thank Pak in a way, coz Pakistan z fighting war against terrorism, i m nt supporting them but it z fact………..n y India z afraid of Pakistan????
    both countries share almost same culture…………
    Problem z Kashmir n it needs 2 b solved thru dialogue, INDIA shud quit kashmir, they wil b tired of kiiling us but they cant crush our dream, the dream z complete independence…….

    QUIT KASHMIR…………………..go india go……………………INQLAB ZINDABAD

    [Reply]

    amar Reply:

    Send Gen Kayani his favorite cigarettes, he will be calling New Delhi soon !

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Touseef Sahib – What is your definition of Independence? Will you please enlighten us from past history of Kashmir as to when it was independent or when it was dependent? Please also enlighten us what rights you have presently and what further rights you desire for Kashmir as a whole, J&K or PHK. Forget about us, everybody is worried and afraid about a rabbit dog because it tries to bite without any reasonable cause.

    Touseef Sahib – In India, we all moan, groan, fight and also sacrifice some of our personal rights for a good social order. These sacrifices are at all levels individual to family, family to neighborhood, neighborhood to community and community to states and so on. Even as a follower of our faith we all sacrifice certain rights. As a follower of a particular religion or its teachings are you not sacrificing some of your rights? At least list the practices prohibited in your own religion and understand the rights you lose by adopting it or forcefully imposed upon you by society. Whether you are independent in your own family? A soul searching is required? Yes, we all denounce crimes, excesses or errors, more so, if they are committed by men in uniform with full mens rea ? What about your AZADI in PHK when Pak Government, Establishments, tribesman who stormed it after partition whether they themselves maintain that you are not part of Pakistan but ‘Azad’? Is it you call ‘Azadi’ which one get in PHK? What AZADI one had in PHK when itscaptors (Pakistan) was itself under Dictatorship? A disowned child of its father is shouting for Azadi ….. !!! Ha ha ha.

    [Reply]

  • VINOD

    At the end of the day Pakistan Generals want Kashmir ideally be part of Pakistan or in a worst case be Independant. This is unacceptable to India. India should declare Jammu and Ladek as seperate states of the Union and develop them, while dealing sternly with the Terrorists in Kashmir.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Listen what Afganistan’s national security adviser has to say :
    —————————————————————————————

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20108\24\story_24-8-2010_pg7_10

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/US-support-of-Pakistan-strategic-mistake/articleshow/6423050.cms

    ‘US support of Pakistan strategic mistake’

    WASHINGTON: A senior Afghan official is urging the United States to re-evaluate its friendship with Pakistan, accusing the country of supporting Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremists as it plays a double-game.

    Writing in Monday’s Washington Post, Afghanistan’s national security adviser Rangin Dadfar Spanta said Pakistani policy has helped maintain a level of violence that is leading to the erosion of Western support for the war.

    US-led troops are deployed with a mission to fight extremist groups, but the task “has been compounded by another strategic failure: the mistaken embrace of ’strategic partners’ who have, in fact, been nurturing terrorism,” he wrote.

    “While we are losing dozens of men and women to terrorist attacks every day, the terrorists’ main mentor continues to receive billions of dollars in aid and assistance. How is this fundamental contradiction justified?” Spanta wrote.

    Pakistan and Afghanistan have long had a fraught relationship. Pakistan was the main supporter of the hardline Taliban regime but switched sides overnight after the September 11, 2001 attacks, becoming the frontline US partner.

    The United States last year approved a 7.5 billion-dollar aid package for Pakistan and has played a lead role in assistance during major floods, hoping its helping hand will reduce rampant anti-Americanism.

    US officials credit Pakistan with stepping up the fight against homegrown Taliban, including through a blistering assault in its tribal northwest last year, but many believe Pakistani intelligence has maintained links with extremists targeting Afghanistan and historic enemy India.

    Spanta acknowledged bluntly that international support has dropped for the Afghan campaign, writing: “Global opinion has also turned against us.”

    While acknowledging Western concerns were partially due to Afghanistan’s corruption, Spanta also pointed to Pakistan, saying: “We have failed to mobilize people for a cause where the fighting is in one place and the enemy is in another.”

    Many experts believe that Pakistan’ top goal in Afghanistan is ensuring it can exert influence after the US pullout. President Barack Obama wants to start removing combat troops in mid-2011.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Basically USA’s stupidy meets Pak duplicity and the results in Afganistan are for all to see..

    [Reply]

    sivaram Reply:

    I do not agree with you.The Pakisthan army only perpetuate the problem: they never want a solution. If solved the army’s importantance is gone: whole xing is taken out.They can’t kill Kashmiri children, rape their women. The pakisthan army likes to shout woulf, wolf, which is non existent.

    [Reply]

    abrar Reply:

    Stop being an “Ostritch’ and acknowl edge the indigineous character of the kashmir freedom movement,remove the 600,000 ‘occupation force’ that has treated the locals as such.Negotiate with Kashmiris and Pakistanis the implementyation of the UN resolution.

    Most of all saying “kashmir is an integral part” has no cribility outside of India and it is not .Once these points are acknowledged and implemented Indian Govt will be in a position where other parties to the dispuite will be willing to come to the negotiation table to end this thorn that is a source of instability for 63 years in the region.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Dear Abrar,
    Refer my earlier comments to your this **** written earlier above in this blog.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @SKChadha

    May I ask then why did Nehro went UN and gave a proposal of holding a plebescite in Kashmir. Didnt he not know that it is Pak who sent tribesmen in Kashmir. And you talk about Maharaja Hari Singh has joined India.. Then may I ask you agin when Hyderabad Deccan is in India because Nawab of Hyderabad didnt join India then why did Patel conquered Hyderabad.

    One thing is sure, people of Jammu and Kashmir wanted to go with Pak at 47. And even after 63 years, they dont want to live with India and you know very well.

    SKChadha Reply:

    @ Sal – My dear Sal, what is wrong in Nehru going to UN? What is wrong in proposing plebiscite? Does a proposal which is even after its acceptance is not honored by other side become a binding force on India? Ask Pak Govt. whether even now they are agreed to 13.04.1948 resolution which is accepted by them? Even if they agree, is it possible for Pak to withdraw all tribal and its Armed forces from PHK? What about offspring borne in last 63 years to such settlers, whether they are to be treated as Kashmiri? Do you want another bloodshed in PHK? My dear friend these are precise reason for which the plebiscite issue is redundant now and we have to live with reality. Neither India nor Pak is harping on such lost issues or talk of UN Resolutions? It is only people like you who crock it.
    During partition there were 562 princely states in the sub-continent which were not part of British India. The British Crown abandoned them and given them a choice to accede to either India or Pakistan or remain outside them. It is a fact that these states were given choice but due to “geographic compulsions” of such States, Mountbatten took the position that only states that shared a common border with Pakistan should only accede to Pakistan otherwise it would lead in chaos and both Pakistan and India would look like polka dots. To certain extent Congress and Muslim League were also of the similar view. The British Crown territories to be acceded to Pakistan were also decided with discussions and approval of Muslim League. The division of India-Pakistan was in fact division of warring political parties i.e. INC & ML for their own political future. ‘Aap aur Hum to Mohra Hain’. Please show me any historical document in which Kashmir at any time was part of Pakistan? Nobody at that time predicted huge and uncontrollable mass migration. The main reason of present hostility is migration, looting and personal scars inflicted by both communities on each other. Mountbatten did not have power to impose his abovementioned point of view on the states. Political parties looking into the bloodshed, as it usually happens, distanced themselves from this tacit understanding and placed entire blame on Mountbatten.
    Now I come to Hydrabad and narrate on the basis of my knowledge; please correct them if they are wrong – Nizam of Hyderabad wished to remain independent or to accede to Pakistan. However, this triggered largest armed rebellion of agriculturists at that time. As Hyderabad was landlocked area, Congress put economic blockade. The Congress led government at centre also used military force (Operation Polo) against the landlocked princely state of Hyderabad which was successful and on 17.09.1948 the Nizam signed an Instrument of Accession to the Union of India. Sal Sahib, at that time, as to suzerainties, what was important was approval of Accession from Princely States for legality of the territory between warring political parties. India being secular, Congress tried its best to woe Muslim population so that they stick to India and India should have larger territory. On the other hand Muslim League after partition was interested in having all Muslim leaders on its side and who so ever opposed it, had become religious traitor for ML and example is Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad. For Indians he is hero and I don’t know how you rank him. The Muslim leaders loyal to Congress were having their interests in India and did not want to migrate to Pakistan. These leaders also played major role in the whole process to unite the territory of India.
    Sal Sahib, INC & ML leaders of that time and even now enjoying their political empire on both sides of the border and we are unnecessarily harping on religious bigotry. Forget it man, otherwise your generations will pass weeping on such complexities. Find some way to move forward in future.

    abrar Reply:

    SK Chadha,

    The only thing i can take away from your “objective” repsonse is the same old argument about “accession” ,well the Dogra ruler who was depised by the kashmiris any way (read 1931 protests in srinagar) being from the minority succumed to Indian pressure to allow indian forces move into a majority muslim state that was to have gone to Pakistan based on the reasons for the partition .

    So his letter (there are many doubtrs about how it may have been given under duress) lost credibility after UN resolutions.

    Kashmir is a dispute that needs to be settled. When you say “Till this goal is achieved, India is prepared to talk to Pakistan only about vacation of PHK or for betterment of Kashmiri” you are either playing a cruel joke on the kashmiris(look how you have treated them under your occupation). This is an example of an ostritch…Talk about the barbarity of your occu[pation forces in the Valley(600,000),talk about complete alienation of kashmiris from your India…dont you watch the protests and what they are saying and the people putting their lives at stake in these protests.

    You are oblivious to the situation in Kashmiri and playing a “nationalist” does not make you right it makes you seem like a fool.

    Raja Hussain Reply:

    Yaar Abrar, if you are a Pakistani then please dont preach about barbarity. I know very well what Pakistan has done with poor Bangladeshis..to referesh your memory millions were killed and thousand of women were raped..That was history… What Pakistan is doing with people from Karachi and Baluchistan. You certainly won’t know 17,000 young boys were killed for no reason from 1991 to 1996 in Karachi. What you call it???? And to the two nation theory…. ITS BULLSHIT… I hope you need not to be told that that Muslims and Hindus have lived in same place from centuries (Pakistan was not there, neither the two nation theory). And truthfully today an indian muslim is much more safer being in India then in Pakistan, which proves that two nation theory was nothing but a propaganda run by Jinnah to keep his name in history

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar – You are unnecessarily going back in history to lay claim over Kashmir. No useful purpose will be served by quoting events of 1931 or such historical data. OK for your satisfaction, I also quote the history of Kashmir as under:

    As I read Kashmir presently include area of Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh, Gilgit, Baltistan, AKJ, Aksai Chin and Trans Karakoram Tract. These areas are under effective control of India, Pakistan and China and inhibited mainly by Kashmiri, Dogri, Ladakhi, Balti, Gojri, Poonchi, Chibhali, Shina Uyghur. The history suggests that only the valley between the Great Himalayas and the Pir Panjal mountain range was being known as Kashmir till the end of 18th century. The 12th Century writer “Kalhana” in his book “Rajatarngini” described that ancient valley of Kashmir was a lake drained by Kashyapa son of Marichi son of Brahma by cutting the gap at Baramulla (earlier called as Varaha-mula).

    As in “Mahabharata” written by Ved Vyas the Kambojas ruled Kashmir during the epic period with a Republican system of government. In the first half of the first millennium, the Kashmir region became an important center of Hinduism and later of Buddhism. Adi Shankaracharya visited Kashmir at the end of 8th century and defeating local Acharyas in Mimansa and Vedanta established himself in Sarvajna Pitha. The Southern India’s influence over the learning of Hinduism during that period resulted in development of Shaivism (following of lord Shiva) in Kashmir during 9th Century. The holy cave of “Amarnath” is also stated to be of that period. The Buddhism developed in Kashmir when Samrat Ashok (Mauryan emperor) had concurred the area and established capital of old Kashmir known at that time as “Shrinagari”. The ruins of this capital city still exist in outskirts of modern Srinagar. Buddhism flourished in Kashmir during that period and travelled upto Rann of Kachh. The area till the beginning of 14th Century was ruled by Hindu Kings.

    In early 14th century Mongol, Dulucha invaded valley through Jojilla Pass dethroned Raja Sahadev. At that time Shar Mir from Swat, Rinchin from Ladhak and Lankar Chak from Dard near Gilgit were notable Jagirdars. After King Shams-ud-Din (Mongol), Shah Mir Swati in 1939 became the first Muslim ruler and established Salatin-i-Kashmir or Swati dynasty. For the next five centuries, Muslim monarchs ruled Kashmir, including the Mughals, who ruled from 1526 until 1751. History, as we read in India, suggests that though few Muslim rulers were ruthless in propagating Islam, the most of them were tolerant of all religions like Akbar who invaded Kashmir in 1588. The description of Kashmir is made by Abul Fazal in ‘Ain-e-Akbari’ and by Kalhana in ‘Rajtarangini’. The Afghanis (Durrani Empire) ruled Kashmir from 1747 until 1820 when Kashmir was annexed by Sikhs ruler Ranjit Singh and later on by British. The Dogra King Gulab Singh purchased the region from British and became the new ruler under paramountcy (or tutelage). The Dogra’s then ruled Kashmir till its accession to India by them.

    Abrar or anybody else also crocking Kashmir by quoting history may kindly enlighten me as to what you want to suggest all of us from above history? Does Kashmir belongs only to its Muslim citizenary?

  • vijay kumar

    The world will once again realise that Pakistan is only fit for army rule. If Kayani ascends to the Field Marshal’s post, we must all do a research on what is wrong with the ideology of Pakistan that it can only be ruled by Generals and Field Marshals !! :)

    The big question remains whether the west– USA and its allies are comfortable with the possibilty of the Taliban and its assoscaites getting their hands on Pakistan’s nukes or whether they decide to reduce Pakistan to dust in the search for its WMD’s

    Both ways it is exciting times ahead for our neighbour… :) and us, in case we keep our eyes closed….

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    @vijay
    “Pakistan’s nukes or whether they decide to reduce Pakistan to dust in the search for its WMD’s”

    USA can reduce any nation to dust if it wants to, but question to Vijay your country cannot do anything, thatis why you guys can do these chest thumping on these blogs”

    Baita ISI is taking good care of you guys in Kashmir, our support of the Moaist will also bear some good results.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Baita,
    Balochis have started executing punjabis..near future intervention in Sindh will also bear results..Baita

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Dear Azhar Hussain,

    Since there is a possibility that the US will be reducing Pakistan to dust in the not so further future, I think it makes sense for India to sit at th sidelines and smile :)

    SO here are three smiles for you from India… :) :) :)

    You can meanwhile start practicing how to live in a tent uner Taliban rule…

    WIth history books written by Kayani, ISI, Hafeez Saeed and Dawood Ibrahim showing you the benefits of living under army and Sharia rule… : :)

    You should now pracitise reading geography books and lessons written by Mullah Omar and Masood which show, Kashmir, Delhi, the moon and Sun under the rule of Pakistanis :)

    Yes by the way music will soon be banished totally in Pakistan, so you can learn how to recite the Koran and kalma in fifty different ways… non musically…

    And on your suhaag Raat practice how you will take off a triple tent from a shivering scared girl in five minutes…this 5 mts is important, otherwise, tumhara waise hi kaam tamam ho jayega !! :)

    Cheers ! I’ll raise my glass of Kingfisher beer, wishing you a happy tomorrow along with happy Taliban rule :)

    [Reply]

  • fazmr

    wow u guys are amazing man, what a knowledge about India & Pakistan! hey we are basically one country tho! even any one agrees or not, we have lots of problem from China tho, unless we are together hard to fight with China a great big power in very few years! wake up guys save our countries, fighting between each other will help other country who is waiting since 100 years to eat us huh…

    [Reply]

  • shantiveer kaul

    Dear Vinod, re: .. “He charged New Delhi with faking opposition to the Taliban while opening secret contact with their leaders”… etc. If there is even a grain of truth in this bushelful of gossip, my disdain for the Indian spooks just went down a notch

    [Reply]

    Vinod Sharma Reply:

    Dear Shanti,
    Can”t vouch for it. Just wrote what I heard. So reserve your judgement on our spooks.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    It truely is amazing seeing the hate in your hearts, but pretending that other side (Pakistan and Islam) is bad. None of you in this forum an idea to what Pakistan is, but heresay and madeup stories and fairytales.

    Like the other blogs this article is also going to end up “Pakistan is all bad, Islam is all evil and it is all hunky dorey in Hindustan”

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Azhar Soower Hussain

    dear p@kee friend , we know very well what Pakistan is. its just a piece of s-h-i-t.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Oh Oh Cowdung on this blog, its going to start stinking.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    @azhar
    you know very much about islam and pakistan..
    so please keep writing more (even though i do not agree with your writings)…
    it is important to learn about your opinions..

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Arbar

    Your leader Geelani says that ‘Muslims cannot live in a non Muslim state like India and non-Muslims feel like fish out of water in a non Muslim state’

    Well, political ideology like that has no place in a civilized modern state similarly sectarian religion oriented separatism has NO PLACE in secular democratic India.

    Geelani should move and so should his followers who want to live in an Islamic state.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    correction : islamist leader Geelani says “Muslims feel like fish out of water in a non Muslim state’.
    Well then he should move to a different pond, instead of trying to muddy this pond.

    [Reply]

  • abrar

    SKChadha

    Thanks for the history lesson,but you are again missing the point. This info is available and I dont deny it ,however I dont need a lecture on it.

    My reason for giving the date 1931 was ,it was the first revolt by the majority against the Dogra rule and continues against the the present day “Indian Raj” .It replaced the “British Raj” in 1947, as far as kashmiris are concerned.

    If history was the only reason for claiming lands then the world would be a very differant place. The new world would all be with the native Indians. World history is constant with change and Indian history is no different. Kashmir as it stands today has a majority muslim population with a legitimate claim to decide their futrure under International law and UN resolutions.

    No country has a right to force a nation or community to be under occupation specially when it is recognised as a disputed region.

    Was Pakistan able to keep East Pakistan after it revolted? even though Indian openly broke International law to invade that territory.However as things stand most Pakistanis acknowledge the wrong done at the time despite Indian interfearence.

    The problem with most of you (indian posters) is you are unwilling to accept the reality in Kashmir that the majority does not want to be under india at any cost.This is the message you are unable to acknowledge and are in a denial mode(deliberately it seesm) that is why I call your type as “Ostritch”

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    @abrar
    don’t you think Bangladesh also needs to get “part” of Kashmir.
    Bangladesh was part of Pakistan in the original UN resolutions.

    Or the pakistan as stated in UN resolutions does not exist..
    it is not the same pakistan and the resolutions do not apply to current pakistan..

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar Sahib – In the beginning, I said that please correct me if I am wrong, so where the question of lecturing you? Yes, your writing suggest that you being Muslim, living in Muslim majority area, is unable to tolerate any other majority rule and will revolt? You yourself is quoting 1931 of such behavior against Dogra King and even now you are making the same point for present situation in Kashmir? Is it the teaching of Islam or just your bigotry? The fact which comes out is that whatever better government you have, you cannot live under it if it is not run by Muslims, is it correct?

    Abrar Sahib – This is best example of intolerant behavior of a Muslim like you. Mind it, this only is affecting the entire Muslim community as also the Islam which teaches only about tolerance. To my opinion now, you are just another donkey tied to the beautiful colorful 1400 years Pillar which is otherwise providing light and direction to others. But you are probably blind by its light. Thoda Hat Kar Socho?

    “Rehne Ko Ghar Nahin Hai, Sara Jahan Hamara. Hindustan Hamara, Pakistan Hamara, Hydrabad Hamara, Joonagarh Hamara, Malaysia Hamara, Indonesia Hamara”. Abrar Sahib Gate Raho, Chillate Raho Aur Jahan Saath Ho (i.e. Pakistan), Eak Doosre Ko Marte Raho Kaat Te Raho. Bangladesh Aur Baluchistan Banate Raho”.

    Hafiz Khuda Tumhara … !!! Shut it and forget it.

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    @arbar

    Take care of the floods. Looks like a revolt will arise of that, possibly engulfing the whole Pakistan.

    Kashmir will remain an inseparable part of India, just like Tibet remains a part of China. Many will be killed as a result of the military action. Democracy does not mean majority opinion survives. What if a majority of Mumbaiites want to secede? What if Tamil Nadu wants to be a sepaarte nation?

    So, stop the nonsense about kashmir. Granted, our politicians from Nehru onwards, screwed up the issue royally.

    It was your Mrs Bhutto and your Hamid Gul who sent ISI trained terrorists to Kashmir in early-mid eighties starting this “insurgency”. Your l-e-T was founded for this. And the man is walking free.

    Why in the —- is Vinod so obsessed with Pakistan? Vinod, will you start some other blog? Why are we wasting our precious time on this cockroach nation? It is a different country; history happened, so, forget about these nostalgic notions you have. Cut it loose. —- happens. Your parents were born there; keep it as a historical fact and move on.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Raju,

    Thx for reminding everyone about Hamid Gul and Mrs Bhutto.

    As for Vinodji writing this blog, Raju, remember we have no choice, even if we disagree with his viewpoint. His intention of course was to find a common ground between Indians and Pakistanis in order to promote peace.

    As things stand, so many of the Pakistanis out here are proud of their ISI causing terror in India. And there seems to be very little hope of a meeting ground.

    Beyond the nationalistic position many of us take out here, we should not forget that we get an opportunity to understand the Pakistani mind out here.

    At another level we also need ot appreciate that history has made us neighbours with a difficult country which is a huge problem as a neighbour.

    WE CANNOT IGNORE OUR WESTERN BORDER at any cost. Remember that the US was complacent after it helped Taliban takeover Afghanistan along with Pakistan. And then the huge 9/11 thing happened.

    So even if we disagree with Vinodji, we can only be ignorant of the neighbourhood at our own peril. SO ti makes sense to keep a watch on the happenings there, as well as influence them, whenever possible…

    I guess life is funny :)

    [Reply]

    Raju Kurien Reply:

    @Vijay

    Thanks Vijay. Yes, you do have a point — these discussions give another window into their mindset and thought process – which is very difficult to believe! Through their minds et, now we know the reasons behind their bckwardness.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Abrar I think we are wasting our time in these blogs. Vinod Sharma starts a discussion, I am sure his intention is to give and take information. But for the most part it ends up into the discussion about Pakistan, Islam blah blah.

    Abrar method on this blog should keep showing them a mirror and mayby, mayyyyyyyyyyybe they will see their own ugly faces aswell. But for the most they refuse to look, therefore unable to see themmselves in the mirrior.

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Azhar.

    yeah right. you are indeed wasting your time on the blog coz you arent gonna accept the truth about your worthless and illegitimate nation and your own existence.

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    @Paritush

    Shall I show you the Sheesha

    muslim bhagawat Reply:

    WE WANT A STRONG AND VIBRANT INDIA WHEREIN ALL THE PEOPLE OF ALL THE FAITH’S REMAIN WITH PEACE AND TRANQUIL. BUT FOR THIS WE NEED TO AMEND ELECTION RULES OF INDIA AND PREVENT THE SMALL PARTIES FROM ENTERING THE LOK SABHA.THEY ARE FIT FOR THEIR STATES AND FROM THE STATE ASSEMBLY TO RAJYASABHA.BUT THESE STATE BASED PARTIES ARE UNFT FOR LOKASABHA.
    OUR CONSTITUTION MAKERS HAD NOT VISUALISED SUCH AN SITUATION WHEREIN THE SMALLER PARTIES ARE GETTING THE BIG PARTIES LIKE CONGRESS AND BJP UNDER THEIR KNEES BEFORE THEM. THE VOTERS ARE HIGHLY ANTAGONISTIC AND MALLEABLE. THEY DONOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN A NATIONAL LEVEL PARTY AND STATE LEVEL PARTY AND STATE LEVEL PARTIES SPENDING HUGE MONEY TO GET THEIR CANDIDATES ELECTED TO LOKASABHA TO BARGAIN FOR POWER AND MONEY BY BLACKMAIL AND EXTORTION.
    THESE PARTIES ARE MILKING THE NATIONAL LAVEL PARTIES I.E CONGRESS AND BJP.IN INDIA ONLY TWO PARTIES ARE NATIONAL LEVEL PARTIES HAVING OAN INDIAN BASE ALL OVER INDIA. BJP HAD 8 STATES RULE WITH TWO COALITIONS AND CONGRESS HAS 7 OR 8 STATE WITH COALITIONS.BUT IN CENTRE NOW CONGRESS IS IN A COALITION WITH DMK,TMC,NCP AND MANY MULSIM PARTIES.SO IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE UNSCRUPLOUS LEADERS OF THESE SMALLER PARTIES.
    PARTIES LIKE BSP,SP,LJP,RJD,BJD,DMK,TMC,NCP,CPI,CPM,FB,SUCI ARE ALL SMALL AND STATE BASED PARTIES .THEY HAVE NO PAN INDIA PRESENCE.BUT OUR ELECTION RULES DIDNOT PROHIBIT THEM FROM FIGHTING ELECTIONS TO LOKASBHA.THEY SHOULD BE PREVENTED AND PROHIBITED TO CONTEST ELECTION TO LOKASABHA AS THEY HAVE NOT GAINED NEEDED VOTING PERCENTAGE ON ALL INDIA BASIS.
    THE VOTING PERCENTAGE BE FIXED AT 25% OF POPULAR VOTES TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO FIGHT A LOKSABHA ELECTION. ANY PARTY BELOW 25% BE PROHIBITED TO CONTEST THE ELECTION TO LOKSABHA SEATS. BY THIS THE TRUE DEMOCRACY BE FRUCTIFIED IN OUR COUNTRY. THE ELECTORATES WOULD ELECT EITHER OF THE TWO NATIONAL PARTIES ON THEIR PERFORMANCE. IT WOULD ALSO SHOW A STRENGTHENED INDIA.
    IF INDIA WOULD HAVE TO BE FREE FROM THE BLACKMAILER,TRADERS POLITICIANS WE HAVE TO ENACT SUCH RULES AND PREVENT THEM.WITHOUT THESE STRONG MEASURES WE CANNOT GET RID OF THESE UBSCRUPLOUS POLITICIANS.
    NOW OUR CEC MR NAVEEN CHAWLA HAS TO INITIATE EARLY ACTIONS BEFORE HIS RETIREMENT TO FACILITATE BRINGING SUCH LAWS TO PREVENT SUCH SMALL PARTIES FROM ENTERING LOK SABHA BY PROXY.THE CEC HAS TO EVOLVE BROADER PERSPECTIVE AND POLICY TO PREVENT THESE PARTIES TO BLACKMAIL THE NATIONAL PARTIES.
    TODAY ALL THE PROBLEMS IN TEH COUNTRY ARE CREATIONS BY THE COMPULSIONS OF COALITION POLTICS AND COALITION GOVT AT CENTRE.IT IS NOT AUGERING WELL FOR INDIA.
    WE WANT A BI PARTY SYSTEM IN INDIA AND FOR THAT LAW OF ELECTIONS ARE TO BE CHANGED.

    SKChadha Reply:

    How “Kayani’s personality transplant” will help in this?

    Rajiv Reply:

    Well has anyone here watched the latest scam that Pakistani players , including the captain Butt is involved in ? That too during Ramzaan .

    Do these guys know any shame ? How can you have a nation of gutter cheats ?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ghanta Ramzaan…They eat during night and sleep during day..so what’s great about that?

    Rajiv Reply:

    It was just a joke.
    Bye the way, I think the more overtly religious people are, the more corrupt and morally bankrupt they get. The more religious a state gets , the more corrupt they get.
    There isdirect co-relation.

    The really good don’t need any religion to be good.

    Look at Pakistan team. They have things like group prayers and sermons. Is there any group of players in the world more corrupt ?

    abrar Reply:

    Azhar,

    The problem with most of the Indian posters here is they deliberately refuse to acknowledge the problem in Kashmir.I would blame the their leaders,and their media which basically repeats the same argument as trumpeted by the goverment officials.

    The media does not inititae a healthy discussion on the happenings in Kashmir,the people beileve the propaganda of their shallow nationalists.

    Vinod initiated a start for a healthy discussionj but was told to basically stop quite rudely.

    The problem is this paper initiates these blogs I am sure for a productive interaction, but most of the posters who come here from India are bigots who do not have the patience for an objective discussion.

    Sal Reply:

    @SKChadha Sahib

    Please try to understand…You have to give Pak a gurante for holding a plebescite in Kashmir then you can expect from Pak to vacate its Kashmir. Without gurante, if Pak leaves its Kashmir, then India will capture Pak Kashmir.

    I ask you a simple question. Why did India make Kashmir its integral part officaly in 1950’s wihtout holding a plebescite in valley when UN resolutions say clearly that the fate of Kashmir will be decided according to the wishes of its people. On the other hand, Pak didnt make her Kashmir its part offically.

    And as far as settlement of tribesmen in Pak Kashmir are concerned, this is incorrect. Tribesmen didnt settled in Pak Kashmir and Pak didnt had any reason for doing that. Chadha Sahib..This is one of the wrong reasons India gives for not holding a plebescite beacuse you know what would be the result of a plebecite.

    You talked about Shimla Agreemt. Then May I have an opportunity to ask you why India under Indra Gandhi sent ts forces in Siachin in 1984 when Siachin was an empty land. Did you honour Shilma agreement. Sorry to say you, it is India who didnt honour UN resolutions as well as Shimla Agreement. One more thing to add is..UN resolutions are more superior to Shimla Agreement and Shimla Agreement doesnt abondon UN resolutions.

    Chaddha Sahib…If you keep dont your promise and dont want to hold a plebecite in KAshmir (Becasue you know the would be the outcome of that plebescite)…Then had you left any option for Pak to go for Kashmir and take it by force…Kargil, 1965 was the examples when Pak had tried to take Kashmir by force because you didnt have any option for Pak. Had Pak ever tried to take Rajhastan, Gujrat or Indian Punjab by force. No.

    Yes..after 63 years, lot of water has gone under the bridge…But let me tell you…India was wrong in 1947 in Kashmir and aftre 63 years, India is still wrong in Kashmir. In 1947, People of KAshmir didnt want to live with India and after 63 years, People of KAshmir were again not want to live with India and this is the reason, everyday, Kashmiris comes on street and get bullets for chanting slogans of Independence.

    The problem of KAshmir could have been solved by your way, had people of Kashmir wanted to live with India without holding a plebescite. Chadha Sahib…That didnt happen even after 63 years.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Sal – There is no Pak Kashmir at all on this earth. Yes, there is Pak Held Kashmir and this is the precise stand of Pak Government since our partition. India has a well established federal structure and mind it there is no more room to involve religion in such structure. The wishes of silent majority of J&K are well taken by the State Government elected by Kashmiri. Pakistan is no more party between India and Kashmiri. Forget history, it will not lead you for any solution. Time is not far off when people of PHK will make you realize this fact. Is Siachin gives you right to cross LOC? First correct your facts on LOC and then talk of Siachin. It is not you to decide what India has honored, there is no taker of your words internationally. The promises made by Indians are respected world over and this is reflected in our International dealings.

    Sal, no need to go on croaking Kashmir man, please live in peace. A firm (not porous) but easy visa & trade points, to my mind, is the only solution for betterment of Kashmiri in present circumstances. However, I feel you have an agenda which is beyond your life span and there is no taker for it either in your own homeland or internationally. Continue it. No problem. Khuda Hafiz … ?

    shaikh salim Reply:

    Isn’t there something unusual once again in the indian minds? or shall i say ‘as usual’. fifth time in a row there is criticism upon us. i wish the author could have discussed amit shah’s case or something else…

    abrar/azhar,
    the problem is with so much obsession against pakistan (isi and military) they would hardly see their own ugly face. so if a bird flap wings its an ISI conspiracy. it seems their media is playing well to infect isi-phobia.

    @indians
    india denies and does not accept taliban (not legitimate and elected regime) because of wahabi brand of islam – then why would india like to engage with saudis (another of such kind). can someone answer the reason of m.singh’s visit to saudia and the agenda discussed.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Shaikh Sahib,

    No criticism of anybody and of any kind? I am just cross checking the informations filtering from different media world over.

    Rohit from Canada Reply:

    Azhar, I am not getting personal with you, but now I think you are brainless and stupid people like you are ******** up Islam, Are agar humko obsession hota Pakistan se to 5 minute lagte hain wapas lene mein, Sala gadha kahin ka. Are samajh nahin aa rahi bukhe nango ke saath jayoege to waise hi ho jayoege. Thank god I am in Canada, nahin to sala juta maar ke nikal deta tum sabko, *******. I hope you understand this language now.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Shaikh

    We cannot leave Pakistan Shaikh !! We have to reform you guys !! Make you less fanatic, more humane and secular.

    The trouble is we have you as a neighbour and you are a pretty bad neighbour who is jealous of our progress, our democracy, our economic strength and secularism.

    Imagine they are two schoolboys in a classroom. One is hardworking and the other is a nikamma. The dunce and nincompoop, instead of working hard, begs for money all around the world, blames everyone else and then beacuse he is still a failure, tries to stab the hardwaroking secular democrat.

    THIS IS THE STORY OF INDIA and PAKISTAN

    So instead of improving yourself, you guys are just committed to pull down India thru terrorism and ISI.

    Well, you have seen the result. Pakistan is a failed state incapable of democracy; It kills its minorites and begs the world for aid, saying taht if you dont give it, we will let the Taliban take the nukes.

    Shaikh, the problem is India ignored Pakistan for too long. Our leaders could not see the depth of your evil intentions and the lengths you guys can go to foment, murder, death and terror. In fact the world has seen through your game.

    As far as our neighbours go we have good relations with most, except Pakistan. Now you may have read some mental rabies infected jehadi analysts who would have said the contrary. But here is the truth.

    The Afghans hate Pakistan. They consider you rabid fanatics — they love us.

    Iranis love us more than they love you

    Bangladeshis, inspite have having been part of Pakistan till 71 migrate to India and would hate the idea of Pakistan coming back again.

    Nepal has good relations with India much much better than they have with Pakistan.

    The relaions with Lanka are good. Like India it is a deocracy and not a rabid mad dog of a military dictatorship l;ike you.

    China relations are improving. They went bad because a Maoist dictatorship existed there. But remember China hates Muslim fundamantlist to which Pakistan is committed. In the long run as China gets its freedoms, it will have better relations– for economic and political reasons– with India.

    So live in a fools paradise… or maybe the nikamma duffer student of Asia should start improving and kill its jehadis first :) :)

    shaikh salim Reply:

    vijay,
    - with making us more of your sort or atleast the way you think — what will you achieve out of this?? go and focus on yourself first. yes! militancy and jehadism has to be dealt with iron hand, we’ll take care of this.

    - afghanistan is bad because of us .. or for the matter of various invasions( russians ..etc) . if afghans are better off with you .. we also have no problem .. or shall i say your slogans of ‘free balochis’ is going to be a problem. you morons just use one mantra .. we don’t want to repeat 71 .. because of your evil deeds .. so wiping you out is also part of our mission. we can afford evil india on our east not on the west.

    - relations with iran — we have fine relations.. we are focused on improving it. recently iran-pakistan-india gas pipeline was about to be .. i guess we are better off with you now. we’ll also take care of jandullah and its seeds poured in through various conspiracies, if you dont know … please take some pills and go to sleep.

    you haven’t answered the question on saudi factor yet .. if you can’t add in that .. please do not respond.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Shaikh

    Well we want to make you more like us because we believe that our core values of democracy, secularism and prosperity for all irrespective of color, race or religion are what the world needs to survive.

    They are certainly much much higher values in the scale of humanity as compared to a fanatic military dictatorship of a state which wants to kill or convert people to a single version of bad religious practice under the scare of warlords like Hafeez Saeed, Dawood ibrahim, Osama bin Laden and Maulana Masood Azhar.

    We want the future generation of Pakistan to be free of religious extremism and terrorism; we want to make the Pakistani women get their rights so that they are freed from bigotry.

    And they are many reasons for it, like

    a) We want a stop to violence and terror which emnates from Pakistan because of its defective core values. This violence and terror is against the core values on which the world survives and have lead to the development of humanity till date

    b) We want the people of Pakistan to be happy and non- terrorist. As long as you guys are happy and content and respect your women, your artists and musicians, your religious minorites, you can be friends with us. We can even ignore you, if you dont want to be friends. Fine enough.

    c) In case various sub nations of Pakistan, like Baluchistan and SIndh are discriminted against, it leads to a general increase in the terror index in the subcontinent. We have to take care that their needs must be met.

    The whole world is realising that Pakistan is the source of terror and jehad which aims to kill liberal thought. It has to be mended. I must remind you that influential think tanks in the USA and Europe have already concluded that one way could be to balkanize Pakistan. Check out the Huffington Post links on balkanizing Pakistan.

    I have not said it. But the world has got tired of the “give us money or we will spread terror syndrome.’

    As far Saudi Arabia is concerned, India desires good relations with it. Pakistan DOES NOT have a monoply over Saudia. And it should not act like a jealous wife fearing that the man is looking elsewhere. :)

    let me add that in India, we certainly feel that Wahabbism is funded from certain quarters of Saudia. however it has gone out of control in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Maybe there was a political reason for it.

    The reason :– Some countries with Muslims in majority were army ruled or ruled by warlords with the biggest guns or ruled by kings. These countries to divert the attention of their population from asking for democratic rights, used to say, “you are Muslims… you dont need democracy. All you need is to promote your religion through violent means….”

    Islam like Hinduism and Christianity is a beautiful religion. And I admire so many aspects of it. :)

    But unfortunately some idiots through gunpower and political control over minds have made it assosciated with terrorists and bigots.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Shaikh.

    Let me repeat. The culture of Pakistan is violent and needs to be corrected and should not be called “macho or manly.” While you guys keep crying over the 10 deaths in Kashmir valley, look at what is happening in Karachi and does not even bother you.

    I am giving a single para from today’s DAWN

    KARACHI: The spate of ‘target killings’ in the city is a political problem that shows every sign of worsening in the weeks and months ahead. In the first two weeks of August alone, over 140 people were killed in ***-for-tat violence following the killing of an MQM MPA and an ANP politician.

    According to data collected by the police, target killings began in the city soon after the February 2008 elections. Falling into several categories — ethnic, sectarian and terrorist/militant — the killings have spiked this year, with 228 deaths recorded between January and early August.
    —————————————–

    shaikh salim Reply:

    your comments are scatered all-around the globe.. and i admire your un-tiring effort to bring humanity in each and every aspect as possible. but the concern i ask from you is .. who is taking you as father?? — go mend your ways ..we’ll do with ours. the culture of india is equally of same brutality might not be nothing more different, we have troubles we acknowledge that but you dont. terrorism (& spill) is a problem and no one is more affected with this then we do. and has nothing to do with our foreign policy tool.

    you said:
    “…….As far Saudi Arabia is concerned, India desires good relations with it. Pakistan DOES NOT have a monoply over Saudia. And it should not act like a jealous wife fearing that the man is looking elsewhere…”

    take some pills and go to sleep. all i asked was you choose not with Taliban (wahabi concept) but with saudia (of same wahabi concept) you desire special relations. your choice is phenomenal … its way beyond normal sense… i applaud on your comments .. plese stick with your game plan .. we are least concerned — with you being lawful wife. we enjoy brotherly relations.

    I’ll also quote something what Naxalites do in west bengal, chattisgarh, telanga etc .. or for the biharis or other migrants to maharastra .. but that is of least concern to me. kill yourself im not concerned.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Shaikh,

    Now dont talk like a Shaikh – chilli :)

    India does not create or foment terrorism nor does it hold training camps for suicide bombers. In Pakistan’s culture the 16 yr old suicide bomber is

    a) Seen as a tool for making money by his father, who has no remorse seeing his sons heart, intestine and lungs thrown around

    b) seen as a canon fodder by parties like Jud, LeT, Taliban, Jaish and even mainline parties for settling scores

    c) Terrorism and killing innocents is seen as a means of reducing the number on non-Sunni Muslims in the world

    We Indians want you to change this sick and rabid mentality. God, ( Allah, Ram< jesus, Buddha ) created this world for all. NOt just for religious exploiters to kill.

    If you guys are so passionate about killing, well kill each other. THough I would still say it is against the order of nature.

    But if your culture says that you have to kill and terrorise the world outside Pakistan… well let me inform you… this time the world is waiting with the right response. :)

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Rohit,

    We really have to see thigs as they are in 2010. We also have to remember that Pakistan closed its gate and REFUSED to take more Muslims soon after partition.

    In fact we have to convey this message to our Indian Muslims that Pakistan is not their friend.

    Let me disgree with you on Nehru and Gandhi. I will not rely on accounts of Historians or journalists right now as they can be biased as per their employment status.

    I was not born then. But my father was and this is what he tells me.

    That in 1940 there were very few Indians in politics, who were educated and had the global viewpoint to visualise India as one country. And of the few who were, not many were willing to go against their British employers. That Nehru, Patel and Gandhi were the best bets as JInnah was not so much committed to the freedom movement as to his idea of Pakistan.

    In my view, Patel could have been a better bet as PM. But then history is something which has already happened. We can’t change it.

    Unlike Pakistan which creates its own fake history books :) :)

    Coming to Muslims, Rohit, you have to accept that they live here and have as much rights as you and me. NO point in dreaming that they should have gone to Pakistan as that has not happened.
    It is for us to educate them on the pitfalls of fundamantalism, fanaticism etc.

    Let us use our multi- religious society as an opportunity to tell the world that this is the model which the world needs to follow if it has to survive. And this message has to specially go to countries like Pakistan, who preach religious intolerance and fund murderers in the name of Islam.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Rajeev, Rohit, Vijay, Farid, Sam,

    Yaar, woh Kayani Kahan Gaya? Hum Sab To Uska “Personality Transplant” Dekh Rahe They.

    shaikh salim Reply:

    that happens typically, i believe you are new over here. often conversations detract from main subject.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Doob gaya paani mein.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Mr. Vijay,
    I agree with both you and Rohit, though if we care for the interest of majority community, Rohit has a strong case. We have committed ourselves to secularism as a state policy though for political class it means appeasement of the minority at the cost of majority community. Look what PC is talking . I have never seen such loose comments from such a responsible and a sensible person. He talks in terms of “Saffron terror” which is inclusive of all the Hindus as saffron culturaly is symbolic of Hindu ethos. All the Hindu saints and priests wear saffron clothes, we all wear saffron tikka on our foreheads and then saffron is a colour in our flag. Will PC ever call a “Green terror”, the colour which is synonymous with muslims?
    We can not complain with the policies of Pakistan. Pakistan has washed off his hands in treating minorities properly by declaring Pakistan as an Islamic state. So muslim religion will be a state religion. All other religions will be secondary and people following these religions will always be called “Kafir”.
    So we have to live with the present situation. Even we do not have a problem for being secular provided our govt. is able to deal with all reigions at equal level. without mixing religion with politics and in the process providing reservations in educational institutions on religion basis.That is no secularism.
    Regards
    BNA

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    Agreed !

    I think the Congress is bending itself backwards all the time for getting the Muslim vote.

    It has no time for people like Arif MOhammed Khan and the real patriots. Unfortunately it wants to drive a wedge between the Hindus and Muslims trying to prove that it is the protecter.

    Today the Muslims have to sink and swim with India. Why should a ruling party try to enact specail civil codes for them, especially if these codes are discriminatory against women?

    Why does it go all the way trying to prove that a known killer and extortionist like Sohrabbudin was wrongly killed. And yet provides state protection to a known terrorist like Afzal Guru?

    Why does it try to insult Hindus by trying to link them with terror, just to stress its protecter role?

    This is certainly not the Congress of Patel or Nehru or even Indira Gandhi.

    I think some other political party should give serious competition to the Congress by wooing Muslims in a nationalistic manner by stressing our common national goals.

    Maybe Dr Abdul Kalam can be roped in out here….

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Also want to add that politcal parties sometimes puts up the wrong social models of Muslim candidates. While Mulayam and Mayawati chose Mukhtar Ansari, COngress chose MOhammed Azharuddin.

    The same Azharuddin who was willing to underperform and fix matches– that is sell his country for money.

    And also married and ditched two different women and is onto a third who he will again use because of the faulty Muslim personel law.

    What sort of examples does the Congress want the Muslim youth to follow?

    Sal Reply:

    I have not concenred whether the situation in the areas where separatist movements going on in Indea are under control or not. All I am saying that there are states in India where separatist movemenst going on or in other words, section of people of those states wants independence. Here is the references for the aeras I have mentioned earlier. Now Its upto you and them.

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,906815,00.html (For Andhra Perdesh)

    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/aunachal/terrorist_outfits/ADF.htm (For Aurachal Perdesh)

    For Assam…No need to write

    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/meghalaya/terrorist_outfits/plf_m.htm
    http://cdpsindia.org/meghalaya_mgp.asp

    Both are for Garo and Meghalaya

    http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Gondwana_Ganatantra_Party (For Gondwana)

    No need for Nagaland, Mizoram, Khalistan, Kashmir to write.

    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/assam/terrorist_outfits/klo.htm
    http://www.start.umd.edu/start/data/tops/terrorist_organization_profile.asp?id=4643

    Both are for Kamtapur.

    http://www.start.umd.edu/start/data/tops/terrorist_organization_profile.asp?id=3696 (For Mizoram)

    http://www.tamiltribune.com/independence/index.html (Tamil Nadu)

    No need for TriPura.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sal,
    Andhra Pradesh – No movement except telangana for separate statehood within INDIA.
    Assam – ULFA is creating problem and is extorting money from poor. It is discredited org.
    Meghalaya – Haven’t heard anything on separatism
    Kashmir – Pakistani stooges in 20% of J&K are creating problem..Time to carpet bomb these SOBs.

    rest is all BS…Ramzaan mein kam jooth bolo..but you can’t help it..You community is known to lie in unison.

    Sal Reply:

    I have given you references. You cant deny them.

    SKChadha Reply:

    Shaikh,

    Blinking eye towards the facts is of no use. With free media the facts filter out wide open. It is not that India is putting any blame on Pakistan. Even your own fellow citizens with right approach realize the facts that hate education has percolated in religious/ school curriculum of Pak society which is not correct. The elite, educated and right minded people in Pakistan should come forward for eradication of this menace which is denigrating beautiful religion like Islam and giving bad name to Muslims world over. Today unbiased minds even in Pakistan realize it. Please read recent blog at :http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/1197/my-teacher-taught-me-how-to-hate/ and make your own independent opinion about the facts.

    Shaikh, please also read “Chapter 3 of Historical Falsehoods and Inaccuracies” in the study made by Pak’s Sustainable Development Policy Institute’s (URL: sdpi.org) report of the Project “A Civil Society Initiative in Curricula and Textbooks Reform”. It will be an eye opener for you which will make you realize that how the young minds are maligned in a particular direction.

    shaikh salim Reply:

    @sk-chadha
    thank you mentor shahab. the concern is that there are few exceptions of topics like “two nation theory ” and some in islamic study “jehad chapters” which are objectionable from around the globe. nothing more.

    i would like to articulate curriculum for defense forces all around the globe to not use any weapon, defence technologies and bombs .. its lethal and dangerous .. do i sound reasonable??

    i have studied **** curriculum .. there is no hate preached in school. but there are those who have open mouth to say and hay what international community say. but i acknowledge there are problems that need to be addressed in a firm and mature way. the point is appointing check and balance and authority over such issue. im sure if that is done there is nothing going towards bad and subsequently to worse.

    meanwhile i’ll go and check what you have referenced.

    SKChadha Reply:

    “i would like to articulate curriculum for defense forces all around the globe to not use any weapon, defence technologies and bombs .. its lethal and dangerous .. do i sound reasonable??”

    Shaikh Sahib, While on negotiating table are we at war? When we talk for peace are we at war? Have you checked the references?

    shaikh salim Reply:

    mr chada, we might not be at war.. no offense!! the point is aggression and aggresive fingure pointing is the end result of the analogy above. yes! checked the references .. the blog by benish is quite ……………. bogus!

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Abrar

    Don’t be too polite and keep showing them the mirrior, they hate that Sheesha.

  • vijay kumar

    Dear Mr Chadha and Abrar,

    I am posting a nice solution to Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir. I and many people on this blog and in India think this is the most logical and easy solution. Let us work to make this a reality.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–
    TRIFURCATING JAMMU, LADAKH and KASHMIR- a solution to India’s problems

    Jammu and Kashmir, the northest part of united India, is our pride and yet today is crying needing our helping hand and a healing touch.

    So many formulae have been tried in the J&K and yet nothing seems to work as finally the separatists and the Pakistanis start creating problems and violence. Let us now, as Indians, seriously take up the proposal for tri-furcating J&K.

    This will strengthen the secularism of India. If we can have separate states of Ladakh and Jammu, and Kashmir is reduced to 2500 sq km, things will be easily managable. The Kashmir problem which looks sizeable on the world map would immediately be reduced to the size it actually is. To a narrow strip of land, 30 km by 70 km in size.

    We could then use our resources to win over the hearts and minds of the people in this strip of land. As well as create a good infrastructure for tourism and industry.

    Let us at this point also remember that today, as Ladkah has been hit by a cloudburst and the population out there suffers, it is the separatists in the valley who are hogging the headlines and consuming all of the state’s budget…. and now forcing the Sikhs in the valley to convert to Islam..

    The need for this tri-furcation has never been as urgent as now….

    The salient features.
    —————————-

    a) Kashmir should be divided in such a manner that the river flow to the rest of India is unhampered. And our military and civil administration can have a better control over the borders and insurgents.

    b)Terrorist violence basically happens in 2500 sq km. Once J&K is trifurcated, it would be easy for the army and the civil administration to control 2500sq km

    c)A plebiscite will never happen as we are too strong to let the world force us. However in case of a hypothetical situation that it does, then India has the right of taking the vote of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir.

    d) Pakistan has already integrated Baltistan as a seperate state, so we have to see what others are doing. In fact they have changed the demographic pattern of Muzzafarabad and occupied Kashmir so that Punjabis are in a majority.

    e) Once kashmir is reduced to 2500 sq km, it will make the separatists realise that their dream of a small landlocked independent country is futile.

    f) We can revoke section 370 for Jammu and Ladakh immediately after trifurcation so that patriotic Indians from all over the country can buy land and settle there.

    g) Ladakh has Lakes, mountains, and calmness as well as Buddhist tourist spots. A huge potential exists. While Jammu attracts lakhs for the Vaishno Devi Yatra.Once they shine, Kashmiris will be inspired to give up the gun and join the mainstream

    h) People of Jammu and Ladakh have time and again asked for separate states or UT status. Let us make them as states. Srinagar can be the capital of all three distinct identities of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir, and would be a Union territory.

    i) There is a huge section of people in Kashmir, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims who always favoured India over Pakistan or freedom. They would always remain with us. Infact they would work with double zeal to get their brothers who have been misled, back into the mainstream.

    j) We should remember that tri-furcation is not secession or ceding ground to Pakistan. Infact, by dividing states in the North East of India we have considerably managed to reduce the regional tensions. Further on, division of PEPSU led to three happy states of Punjab, Haryana and HImachal. And more recently, the creation of Chattishgarh, Jharkhand and Uttrakhand has led to a fast paced development of these areas….

    At the end of the day all people from the J&K region would be proud to be Indian. Currently we are holding the people of Jammu and of Leh-Ladakh hostage to the political machinations of a few outsiders.
    —————————————————————-

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vijay – It would have been better if you get elected to Indian Parliament and put your views there, get support and implement what ever you want on behalf of India. Till that time don’t apply empty brain. The thinking expressed by you gives feeling of a confused mass of protoplasm. Probably, discussion is driving me also in that direction. Bye Bye.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    @SK Chaddha
    Why such contempt for a viewpoint. After all Vijay has proposed a possible solution to this complicated problem.Trifurcation of J&K has been proposed by people in position earlier and has been reported in the media.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Praveen – Why at all talk of J&K by others? Do you propose any solution for PHK problems? In fact, any problem in J&K is due to religious intolerance of few disgrunteled eliments? Neither they represent silent majority of Kashmiri nor they are prepared to contest elections? Have you seen fate of AGLone in J&K elections? What right these self proclaimed leaders have to talk about Kashmiri? And by the way it is we the people of India who have to take collective decision through our Parliament. If that be the solution why not to have saparate statehood of all places in India wherever Muslims are in majority. Whether such place is a city, town or village.

    It is better that the local communities solve their problems through Panchayati Raj institutions. Any way an old idea … which is discarded long back.

    Sal Reply:

    @SKChadha

    Sir…Pak was alaways ready to withdraw its forces from Pak Kashmir. And still Pak can withdraw its forces from Kashmit if India gives her a gurantte of holding a plebescite in Kashmir (once Mushhsraf has said this too). But it was India which made whole Jammu & Kashmir its integral part officaly in 1950’s without holding a plebescite. Then how could you expect from Pak to vacate its Kashmir form its forces when you recognize the whole of Kashmir as your intergral part according to your constituion.

    Chadha Sahib..First change your consitutiuon which clealry says Kashmir is its integral part incluidng Pak Kashmir and then ask Pak to leave its Kashmir from its forces for plebescite.

    Second, it was understood that the King of any state will accede to India or Pak according to the wisjes of its people according to 3 June, 47 India Partition plan. But that wasnt happened in Kashmir case. Maharja Hari singh has gone the opposite side.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Sal – Guarantee … ??? Are you joking? Forgot Kargil after Shimla Agreement? Pak had back tracked from UN Resolution, Shimla Agreement when it crossed LOC in Kargil stating that LOC is demarked and not delineated.

    Sal, you are taking only about military withdrawal? What about the trebles who have settled in PHK. Forget them, what about their offspring of last 63 years. Are they not Kashmiri citizen of PHK? Lot of water has flown in last 63 years. Entire rules of the game have changed man. Live in present. Think solutions in present situations and do not drag anybody backward. India expects Pak to vacate PHK because Pak maintains that PHK is Azad. It negated existence of its forces in PHK 62 years back. It negated storming of PHK territory by tribal from northwest at that time. In partition Punjab was bifurcated, the Kashmir was not. Read the territorial distributions and lines agreed upon by INC and ML. Sal, partition was not of India and Pakistan. It was partition of political wealth of INC and ML. Pak and India were their creation. The nations were infants at that time, these are all games played by politicians of that time. None of them was holy cow. Try to forget the cruel joke played with masses at that time on religious bigotry. End this game at least now. It will not lead us anywhere.

    And for your information, Indian Constitution is not a scrap which can be accepted or rejected or changed by any tom, Dick or Harry. It is a well crafted and time tested document which represents the wishes of 1.2 billion people. Forget about India, it is respected world over. Through, this document only the people of India including J&K derive their fundamental rights and power to choose their own Government at Union Level and for State. It is our document, not a cruel joke like Pak Constitution. Every word of it represents the wishes of 1.2 billion masses. Even Nehru family, Hari Singh or Abdullah Family they all are respected because they derive their power from this document. Constitution of India is not their creation but they are its creation. This hope it should be enough for you to understand the polite firmness of India.

    Sal still on your advise, I will try to change Constitution of India, but forgiv me, the chances of it are 1/ 1.2 billianth.

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ SKChadha

    there’s no point in having any sort sensible of discussion or argument with the Pakistanis.

    your reply to Vijay and Sal indicates that you are one of those who consider Pakistan as a potential ally. and please cease worshiping the Gandhi-Nehru nexus. do realise that the Kashmiris are inherently communal and are responsible for driving away their Pandit brethren. trifurcation is a good solution.

  • Rajiv

    Let tottering-PAK and pakistanis like Sal keeping crying over Kashmir. They lost 1/2 the country in 1971 and the way things are going the remaining 1/2 too wont survive long in current shape.

    Its because of low IQ -Pask leaders and Pakistanis that Pak is reduced to what it is today – a criminal , terrorist breeding ground.

    The Kashmiris in india – includsing Hindu, Muslim and Buddhists – have all the freedoms and autonomy they need.
    Ofcourse A section of Muslim Kashmiris, inspired by criminal and communal aspirations of communal islamist leaders like Geelani and funded by the failed state accross the border can keep there jihad.

    Thats the reason why the separatists in Kashmir have lost all legitimacy and are now just a communhal, jihadi problem.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Chadha Sahab,

    The basic idea is to restrict the problem to the small area it occurs.

    If we let it spread– as it seems to we are being unfair to the people who have nothing to do with it. In this case it is the Ladakhis, the Jammuites and the Sikhs and Hindsu of Kashmir valley.

    If we talkk in generalities that ” the cahracter of ourt politicaisns has to change” nothing nwill change.

    I am trying to understand the opposition to tri-furcation which may come from sections of Indians.
    Let us be practical for once.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vijay – Democracy is like pressure cooker with safety valve. When the pressure increases the people should be allowed to vent out their feelings. I donot take offense to opposite view points. However, at certain point it is better to agree that we have disagreement on certain point. There is no fruitful purpose will be served by stretching anything beyond a point. Any further division of any land in India based on religion or ethnicity is not correct in my opinion. Yes, aspirations for betterment of any area have nothing wrong in it as long as there is no compromise on territorial integrity of the nation. However, such ideas should come from the elected representatives and not by so called intellectuals. A clear distinction should be made in Media speak, political speak, intellectual speak and the collective government speak. People those have no matured democratic values or have not seen democracy for long may not be in a position to understand it. I have full faith that you understand it. The character of politicians will remain the same for generations and we can’t change the basic human instinct. The need of the hour is that the sane voices from both sides of the border should try to understand other’s view point and try to find some meeting ground. Suspicion and mistrust is part of international diplomacy. It reduces with time and with positive vibes and not by Tu Tu Main Main.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Chaddha Sahab,

    We have to live with realities. And the reality is that the people of jammu and Ladkah have been ignored for too long. It has always been the valley which appoints the Chief Minister and consumes almost 78% of the budget.

    Knowing many Kashmiris — Hindu, SIkhs and Buddhists as well as Muslims, my own feeling is that they had a good rapport amongst themselves till 89-90. However the constant Pakistani funded and inspired terror has torn them apart– even though many would like to rebuild the old ties.

    Division of states is not a communal thing, but a practical solution for administration in India.
    Remember Maharashtra and Gujrat were one state at one point in time. Partitioning has not led to animosity but to admninstrative ease.

    In any democracy, it is the people who should propose the solution to the rulers. That is why I put this issue on this forum.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Vijay,

    What you say is conrrect and note that “Maa Bhee Jyada Rone Wale Bachhe Ko He Doodh Pilati Hai”.

    As to State budget, if figures are correct than Vally is funded from two sides. From GOI by budgetory support/ state budget and from GOP by other means. Still improvement in its economic condition is lagging behind as compaired to other States. Leh is peaceful and is attracting better and more tourism with passage of time and building its economy. As long as the basic thinking of the masses of vally is not changed such solutions may not result in peace. And to my opinion prosperity will come only with peace. “Sabko Sanmati De Bhagwan” …. Ameen.

  • abrar

    When you attempt to abuse a religion then you are insulting 15% of your own minority and shows bigotry even though you claim to be a democracy.

    When some posters here talk about the ‘cloud burst” in Ladakh and dont have a word to say about the tragedy in Kashmir where another family lost their 17 year old today by Indian forces,this goes beyond callousness,it is downright bigotry and hate.

    The Ostritch mentality shows in 90% of the indian bloggers and now I am convinced its deliberate.Its your forces who are committing these atrocities and you justify these acts by blaming either their religion or Pakistan..this is the problem. No revolt can be sustained for such a long period without a genuine desire of the people.

    time and again kashmiris have come out in their thousand in all parts of the occupied land to demand azadi ,this is the truth. The solution has to start from this point only.

    As for the Sikhs,please do not shed any “crocodile ters” for this community which has seen its share of the same atrocities 1984 in New Delhi and Punjab.You based your assumption on distribution of a few letters which could be a ploy from the agencies to discredit the movement for a plebicite.

    Vijay Kumar atleast made an attempt to share his vision of a solution,this is what I prefer to talk about on this blog.I am sure this was also the purpose of this article.

    I request other bloggers to intiate same type of discussion for the possible solution to the issue.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ abrar

    a nation that doesnt consider its minorities as humans and suppresses its ethnic minorities has no right to lecture others on human rights. this statement has been made in case for Pakistan.

    treat Hindus , Sikhs, xtians , Balochis equally and give them their civil and human rights first. well this is something that Pakistan wont ever , even think of doing. so please shut the fuc-k up.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar – I remember a beautiful Punjabi saying – “Mud Chud Ke Khoti Bodh De Thalle Ee Andndi Hai” (i.e. after taking round of the field, the mare comes back under the tree. Ham Lakh Dua Karen Aap Ghum Phir Kar Wapas Kashmir Pahunch Jate Ho. If Atal Ji will hear you he will say ….. ‘Yeh Teek Baat Nahin Hai’ … !!! Hai Mera Kashmir, Hai Mera Kashmir. …!!! Yar Kashmir is a piece of land and it is there since time immemorial and it will continue to be there. At least let the peace loving people of J&K live in peace. Abrar, this year we expected that over a million tourist will visit the beautiful land of Kashmir which have boosted the economy of J&K. The need of the hour is that people of J&K should come forward in hospitality industry. Develop rail, road links, have more educational institutions, increase job prospects for residents and improve health care. These all are State subjects and out of central plan expenditure, the State of J&K is one of the largest beneficiaries percentagewise of these funds. If so called hurriat pasand have any respect for Kashmiri, please come forward, rule your State, make or amend your own law within the framework of Const. of India and make this land again a Paradise on earth. J&K still has better liverage under Const. of India as compared to other States. Please don’t try to doom even that.

    My dear friend, India has survived as democracy due to our religious tolerance and providing rights and liberties to fellow citizens to vent out their feelings in a democratic way. As long as long, enjoyment of such rights and liberties by one does not disturb social order or affect the life and liberty of fellow citizens. The entire world recognizes this beauty of Indian Constitution and our unity in diversity. No one can fool citizenry of this country or J&K anymore including you. The silent democratic majority in J&K is also well aware and enjoys these endless and confusing details. The beauty of secularism is probably beyond your imaginations. What to talk of protection of democratic values, Abrar, you are far away from even Islam.
    You think the voice of Kashmiri is represented by stone pelting hooligans on streets, by people who indulge in bandhs disturbing social life, by people those hiding behind the religion and preaching others secular values and also by leaders who shout Hurriyat at the pitch of their voice and never represented their credentials in any elections. To my feeling, the people who have neither seen secularism nor democracy in last 63 years are not in a position to understand the difference in media speaks, individual speaks and Government speaks what to talk of deciphering it or forming their own opinion?
    Abrar Sahib – “Majhab Nahin Sikhata Aapas Main Bair Rakhna”. Don’t mix religion in Politics of J&K. It will not lead you anywhere?

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Abrar – Any cribbing that others are not looking you with sympathy is not good. Every human being understands the pain, anguish and frustration of the families who have lost their young loved one. Abrar, the young minds should be given right directions and should be encouraged in healthy discussions and to educate themselves in open environment. None of us should spoil them by putting them as fodder in politically charged atmosphere. Please observe that no sane matured person is guiding them in right directions. The teachings and preaching’s of some leaders to such young minds is far from their expectations from their own offspring. It is a disturbing situation. To my mind it is the duty of their parents to stop them from indulging in such activities. The problem is that lack of employment opportunities, underdevelopment, difficult rail, road connections from other parts of the country, fuming religious feelings, funding and directions from other side of the border are making too toxic combination for them to resist the hooliganism.

    I quote the beginning of your comment – “When you attempt to abuse a religion then you are insulting 15% of your own minority”

    Abrar – The basic difference lies in ideology of our two nations. India is secular and Pakistan is a Muslim country. Our good wishes for Pakistan, whatever small they are, are directed towards its entire citizenry, whereas voices emanating from Pakistan are directed basically towards India’s Muslim population only. Hence, such voices from Pakistan are attributed as false motive of our neighboring nation. The feeling would not have pinched so much if India would have also been a religion based State. Religion or faith here is personal to anyone? We cajole, entice, criticize and persuade each other on religious beliefs and enjoy or feel annoyed but do not have feeling of hatred for each other. The voices of Pakistan may be with good intentions, but when they are directed to a particular community or religion alone is making more harm only to that community or religion. This only agitates masses here and further alienates society. Moreover, such intention creates more mistrust towards motives of our neighboring country. It is fact that religious intolerance still exists in India, but believe me the efforts of our masses are to dose it and not to give air to it. The atrocities are highlighted in mainline media for correction and not for advertising hatred by skewing it in favors of a particular religion. Please see Mr. Madani’s, encounter with Gen. Musharaff. He is an elite Muslim leader and our Rajya Sabha Member at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1CXrHxC8MY

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ Azhar Soower Hussain

    “Oh Oh Cowdung on this blog, its going to start stinking”

    yeah right. so please fuc-k off from here. only then the stink would stop. apni tareef ke liye shukriya , soower

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    Non-Muslims want us to just lay down and take it, no sir they came here and now its time for them to run.

    There Are No Heroes In Illegal And Immoral Wars
    By Robert Jensen
    August 24, 2010 .. When the 4th Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division rolled out of Iraq last week, the colonel commanding the brigade told a reporter that his soldiers were “leaving as heroes.”
    While we can understand the pride of professional soldiers and the emotion behind that statement, it’s time for Americans — military and civilian — to face a difficult reality: In seven years of the deceptively named “Operation Iraqi Freedom” and nine years of “Operation Enduring Freedom” in Afghanistan, no member of the U.S. has been a hero.
    This is not an attack on soldiers, sailors, and Marines. Military personnel may act heroically in specific situations, showing courage and compassion, but for them to be heroes in the truest sense they must be engaged in a legal and morally justifiable conflict. That is not the case with the U.S. invasions and occupations of Iraq or Afghanistan, and the social pressure on us to use the language of heroism — or risk being labeled callous or traitors — undermines our ability to evaluate the politics and ethics of wars in a historical framework.
    The legal case is straightforward: Neither invasion had the necessary approval of the United Nations Security Council, and neither was a response to an imminent attack. In both cases, U.S. officials pretended to engage in diplomacy but demanded war. Under international law and the U.S. Constitution (Article 6 is clear that “all Treaties made,” such as the UN Charter, are “the supreme Law of the Land”), both invasions were illegal.

    The moral case is also clear: U.S. officials’ claims that the invasions were necessary to protect us from terrorism or locate weapons of mass destruction were never plausible and have been exposed as lies. The world is a more dangerous place today than it was in 2001, when sensible changes in U.S. foreign policy and vigorous law enforcement in collaboration with other nations could have made us safer.
    The people who bear the greatest legal and moral responsibility for these crimes are the politicians who send the military to war and the generals who plan the actions, and it may seem unfair to deny the front-line service personnel the label of “hero” when they did their duty as they understood it. But this talk of heroism is part of the way we avoid politics and deny the unpleasant fact that these are imperial wars. U.S. military forces are in the Middle East and Central Asia not to bring freedom but to extend and deepen U.S. power in a region home to the world’s most important energy resources. The nation exercising control there increases its influence over the global economy, and despite all the U.S. propa****a, the world realizes we have tens of thousands of troops on the ground because of those oil and gas reserves.
    Individuals can act with courage and compassion serving in imperial armies. There no doubt were soldiers among the British forces in colonial India who acted heroically, and Soviet soldiers stationed in Eastern Europe were capable of bravery. But they were serving in imperial armies engaged in indefensible attempts to dominate and control. They were fighting not for freedom but to advance the interests of elites in their home countries.
    I recognize the complexity of the choices the men and women serving in our military face. I am aware that economic realities and the false promises of recruiters lure many of them into service. I am not judging or condemning them. Judgments and condemnations should be aimed at the powerful, who typically avoid their responsibility. For example, a journalist recently asked Ryan Crocker, former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, to reflect on U.S. culpability for the current state of Iraqi politics. Crocker was reluctant to go there, and then refused even to consider the United States’ moral responsibility: “You can ask the question, was the whole bloody thing a mistake?” he said. “I don’t spend a lot of time on that.”
    It’s not surprising U.S. policymakers don’t want to reflect on the invasions, but the public must. Until we can tell the truth about U.S. foreign policy, and how the military is used to advance that policy in illegal and immoral ways, we will remain easy marks for the politicians and their propa****ists.
    Part of that propa****a campaign is suggesting that critics of the war don’t support the troops, don’t recognize their sacrifices, don’t appreciate their heroism. We escape the propa****a by not playing that game, by telling the truth even when it is painful.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    blah blah blah blah. allah hu fuc-kbarr

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Did no one teach you that the other end is for C R A P and not your mouth, i gues you are a viggie lover

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    blah blah blah

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Dear Abrar,

    Thank you for going through my posting on tri-furcating the state of Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir.

    What are your views on this?

    I hope you do realise that Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists too live in J&K and have nothing to do with the agitations. Further, they have suffered the maximum. The Hindus were killed and driven away; many Sikhs left or were driven away and now there is a pressure on them to convert. And somehow the Ladkahis never are given the importance.

    As far as abusing Islam goes, I think the majority of the bloggers out here are against it. However it is a certain type of fundamantalist intrepretation of Islam which angers most people around the world and I wish you should also not support it.

    If a particular Muslim theologist says that Shias, Ahemadiyas, Ismailis, Sufis, baluchis are bad… I think we should all be critical and abusive towards that person.

    If somebody says that the state should follow a certtain religion because the majority of the people of that distict/ city are of that religion, I feel this is evil.

    If the Sikhs, Hindus and Christians are abused as much as the Ahmediyas and Shias in Pakistan, why should we not be critical?

    Let me state here that 95% of Indi9ans are secular by nature. Most are so proud of their great Muslm leaders like APJ Abdul Kalam, Maluna Azad or for that matter Aamir khan or Zaheer Khan. It is only in the past two decades, because of the constant killing of HIndus in Kashmir and the terror attacks from Pakistan in the name of Islam, that people have started looking at Islam suspiciously.

    If a few Muslims were to kill a few Jehadis in India– the trust will be re-built immediately ! :)

    As far as J&K is concerned, you really have to be practical. Remember that Balitstan has become a state in Pakistan and Punjabis have settled in POK ingreat numbers, unlike in India, where section 370 prevents people from buying land. J&K was a paradise once– when it flaunted secular tradtions.

    Maybe you should work to revive them….

    abrar Reply:

    Hello Vijay Kumar,

    I read your comments about division of kashmir more so becasue it is the only comment by a poster to try to engage in a discussion over a possible solution to the kashmir issue.

    Your reasons of “tri-furcating the state ” seems more to purely look at the Indian point of view and more to do with administration of the state then a final solution to the issue that takes into account the demand of the majority. I am well aware of the Ladakhi and hindu and sikh minorities in J&K. I will also acknowledge that if put to vote these minorities will probably vote to join India.

    The final solution to the kashmir dispute has to take into consideration this aspect of the issue as well.The Indian Goverment has to officially declare the issue as a dispute and then work with the kashmiris and Pakistanis to reach an amicable agreement that satisfies all the parties to the dispute.

    As for issues regarding Pakistanis minorities that is another subject and its Pakistans internal issue.I will not disucss the issues of Tamil Nadu alienation from North India or Naxalite probl;em in Andra Pardesh as those are internal matters of India. I will expect the same from indian posters for Pakistan as well.

    Kashmir is a dispute and Internationally recognised as such and that is I am sure the only reason why you may have Non Indian posters here.

    SKChadha Reply:

    “He charged New Delhi with faking opposition to the Taliban while opening secret contact with their leaders.”

    Vinod ji,

    There appears to be some truth in your story. It is reported in New York Times that ISI is interfering in direct talks of Taliban leaders with Afghanistan establishment. It is also reported that the arrest of Mullah Baradar seven months back was also because he tried to have direct repo with Afghan establishment which is not acceptable to ISI. It is probably the double game of ISI, at one hand they scuttle Afghan peace talks and on other hand if at all US leave Afghanistan than they can again have influence through Taliban. It is reported that Mullah Baradar is resting with comfort in Pak. This meeting about which you are referring may be an attempt of desperation in Taliban to break the hegemony of ISI. Refer the story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/world/asia/23taliban.html?_r=1

  • Rohit from Canada

    @Azhar ,
    Yaar, Why are you upset, just leave us Indians and India alone, this India obsession is destroying Pakistan, you are beggars and run around for aid all around the world, your country is breaking up, you are ruled by a bunch of liars, we just pity you. Muslims have insulted Islam and in the name of Allah you all have messed up each and every corner of the world. There is so much hatred for you that even in the time of need now nobody wants to give you aid and the poor are suffering. Your jihad leaders are destroying you and you are turning a blind eye. Get a reality check, pretty soon Pakistan will be ruled by Taliban, women will be tortured, there will be no freedom of speech, movement etc. and all of you will be running around with long beards. And by the way Kashmir will always remain a part of India and I hope we can shunt the rest of you guys out of Kashmir into Azad Kashmir, so that you all can live happily ever after, “Insha allah” as they say in your language.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Rohit yo not leart anything living in Canada, have you? Look in mirror you will also see your own ugly face. This indian blog it is you guys who have become obsessed not us. Whether General Kiyani says anything your brave peopel make analysis about him. Afridi hits a six, and you guys start barking; Naxist kill and you think it is ISI. HOw come are you in Canada why don’t stay back in India if it is that great. What a moron you are!

    As far as Pakistan goes, we will come out this one as well.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Vinodji,

    What are your views on tri-furcation of Jammu, Ladkah and Kashmir as a possible solution to the problems occuring in that region?

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    SHaikha Salim,

    We are not obsessed with Pakistan. We just want to make sure that you guys are not planning an act of terror which comes so naturally in your culture.

    We were least interested in you and then you guys started terror in Punjab in the eighties.

    Followed by Kashmir.

    Then Kandahar

    And Kargil

    An Parliament attack !

    You see Salim, when you are living next door to a snake, you have to be careful. You tell me what you would do, in case a rabid dog lived next to your house?

    Dont mind it. I have a few Pakistani friends. But Pakistan as a nation is a blot on humanity. Since we are unfortunate to have you around, we have to be prepared for the next act of stabbing.

    And that is why we endevour to make you secular, less fanatic, less Talibani etc etc.

    If Pakistani were to blow up in a Talibani nuclear atttack which could happen by 2020 you guys would say… “Ah! The pure taliban have killed us… we will go to jannat… wah wah wah…”

    While we in India would think you have gone bonkers :)
    We have to reform you

    We have no choice in that matter.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @SK Chadha

    So you are saying to me what your Govt’s stand is and you are concerned with what Kashmiris wants from you. And The silent majority of Kashmirs wants freedom from you and this is a reason, India doesnt held a plebescite in Valley beacuse you know what answers this silent majority will give to you in the plebescite.

    Kashmir is a disputed reigon and every one on this planet knows very well. And this is India who has occupied Kashmir against the wihses of its people and every foreing map shows Kashmir as a disputed region.

    So you dont want to act as a neutral. OK..Then ISI is doing a very good job for Kashmir and ISI will keep continue its operations. And you people deserved that.

    [Reply]

    Vinay Reply:

    When you say, India hasn’t hold a plebescite, how did you come to know about the silent majority ? We all know, only the vocal majority. I mean, those who give public speeches and demonstrations.

    [Reply]

    SKChadha Reply:

    Sal,

    1. Please see the maps world over and realise, which region is shown as disputed?
    2. I think you are least interested in Hydrabad and Junagarh, looks to be Kashmiri?
    3. Will you please enlighten me on your definition on plebisite? What about FATA and NWFP?

    Sal, at least in last you have agreed that ISI is doing hanky penky in J&K and you vouch that it will keep continuing its operations. So sir, it is sufficient for me and world community to understand what a normal citizen of Pakistan itself think about the actions/ reactions of its own government and justifying it. If an elite of a nation is having such thinking, the entire world knows that what will be the condition of the general masses?

    Sal, sorry to say, you are not only destroying present image of the beautiful land of Pakistan but also dooming its future prospects by projecting offensive designs. Shut it.

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    @vijay
    leave us! if we are troublesome you are also not a saint. you have a stubborn nature that will make you pay in afghanistan as well as in kashmir. of all the neighbours which india has tell me which country has not troubles with you? each and every country enjoys a special relation of enimity with you.

    my pal azhar rightly say .. you feel ashamed to see your own face. there are troubles with us but we’ll defend that either through military or militancy … you still would have same old mantra “hate pakistan”— “hate pakistanis” — “hate jinnah” — “hate muslims” — “hate!!” hate!! hate!! an endless chain..

    just answer the saudi factor in the question above. by the way name is shaikh not shaikha…

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    The reality of state sponsored religious discrimination and bigotry.

    Religious extrimism of any kind is poisonous. It applies to all religions.

    Other than Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia , Pakistan etc what are other countries where there are laws that discriminate against people based on religion ?

    Israel does to a certain extent but other than it , almost all the countries where the law or the constituition discriminates against its own citizens based on religion is in Muslim countries.
    Thats why Muslim countries are looked upon as sick and bigoted.

    Thats why Pak is a sick entity and no amount of prevarication can hide the ugliness of laws like citizens who are Muslims can only become PM or President and the equally repugnant and criminal laws relating to Blasphemy where the mere accusation can result in instant lynching.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Dear Sal,

    The silent majority in Baluchistan want freedom. let us give it to them…. :)

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    Nagaland, Tri Pura, Auranachal Perdesh, Assam, Tamil Nadu and 24 others separatists movements are making you busy. I didnt name Kashmir yet.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Sal

    When a foreign country — USA– launches bomb attacks on your country, you say give us money — kill as many of us but give us money… Wah :) Wah Wah :) :)

    When SHias are killed you say ha ha ha … now they would want a Shia -Staan :)

    When Hindus are driven away, Sikhs beheaded, Christians lynched for blasphemy… u say wah what a wonderful place pakistan is…

    When Baluchis want their freedom you say Rah !! :) Rah Rah :)

    When women’s hands are chopped for applying nail polish… u say what beautiful thoughts Taliban preach !!

    Cmon… Pakistan has no ideology except hate of India.

    India has no separatists movements except a terror sponsored movement in a small part of Kashmir…

    We will; survive for a thousand years… and shine…

    while you guys would be in thousand pieces by then… :)

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Please read the sorry state of Hindus in Bangladesh..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Bangladesh

    Declining Hindu population in Bangladesh region Year Percentage (%)
    1941 28.0
    1951 22.0
    1961 18.5
    1974 13.5
    1981 12.13
    1991 11.62
    2001 9.2 [2]

    On 3 January, 1964, an unprovoked carnage of the Hindus took place in major cities of East Pakistan. In the city of Khulna alone thousands of Hindus were killed in one night. It was aided and abbeted by the then Government of Pakistan. A false rumour was spread that the Hindus in India stole the sacred hair of the Prophet Mohammed from the Hazarat Bal Mosque in Kashmir. This ignited the passion of the Muslims to go berserk and as a result scores of Hindus were murdered. It was followed by a mass exodus of the hapless Hindus from East Pakistan to India[citation needed]

    Despite the public commitment of Sheikh Mujib and his government to re-establishing secularism and rights of non-Muslim religious groups, two significant aspects of his rule remain controversial as relates to the conditions of Hindus in Bangladesh. The first was his refusal to return the premises of the Ramna Kali Mandir, historically the most important temple in Dhaka, to the religious body that owned the property. This centuries old Hindu temple was demolished by the Pakistan army during the Bangladesh Liberation War and around one hundred devotees murdered. Under the provisions of the Enemy Property Act it was determined that ownership of the property could not be established as there were no surviving members to claim inherited rights, and the land was handed over to the Dhaka Club.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Idiot Pakistanis say that India has 27 or 300 separatist movements !!!

    But do idiot Pakistanis understand that while India stronger and greater than anytime before , Pakistan is 1/2 of 1947 and the other 1/2 surviving on aid from Kafirs !!!

    Why do Pakistanis insist of proving their idiocy while more than 1/2 there country is either under water or under Taleban or under Baluch’s ?

    Counting Indian insurgencies, imagined or otherwiase , didn’t save Pakistan in 1971.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    Dear Abrar,

    We have to look for a solution for all the people of Jammu, Ladkah, and Kashmir. And we have to realise that time has moved since 1947.

    Even then, when the partition lines were made, it was assumed that all Muslims from India would move to Pakistan as all the minorites from Pakistan were being driven away. The area given to West Pakistan was big for that reason.

    Yet it would have been wrong for Indians to drive people from here in the name of religion; our leadership of Nehru, Patel and Gandhi were too humane even to think of that. And that is the viewpoint 99%l Indians today. Every religion has the right to exist here.

    The troublemakers who try to convert or kill or segregate people along religious lines should be punished.

    Isn’t it a higher ideal than that of Pakistan which was born in the name of religion and now exterminates all non Muslims or punishes even those who it considers LESS of a Muslim like, Shias, Ahemadiyas, Ismailis, Qadianis.

    It discriminates against its Baluchi, Sindhi and MOhajir minorities.

    Coming back to Kashmir, let me remind you that amalgamation of the Kashmir valley with Pakistan will never happen. What could well happen is a breakup of Pakistan in the next decade.

    My reasons of “tri-furcating the state ” are not purely from the Indian point of view and more to do with administration of the state. You are aware of the Ladakhi and hindu and sikh minorities in J&K who will probably vote to join India.

    They have nothing to do with the violent Pakistani funded agitations. Why should they be killed or made to suffer? Sikhs are being forced to convert to Islam in secular India. This is against the fundamantel beliefs of India.

    Many kashmiri Muslims I know would not join Pakistan and would prefer India over Pakistan. Some may want Azaadi for sure.

    But is Azaadi practical with Jaish and Lashkar and Taliban raring to swallow a small Kashmir valley whenver it gets a chance?

    Many Kashmiris are Shias. how would they survive with Sipahi-e-sahaba of Pakistan ?

    I think more autonomy for the valley after the state is tri-furcated along the lines I have suggested is the only solution.
    :) :)

    By the way India has no problem in Tamil Nadu!! And the naxal problem is not separatist. It will get resolved soon :)

    Khuda Hafiz….!

    and no hafeez Saeed….

    [Reply]

    abrar Reply:

    Okay ijay Kumar,

    First I dont think your last sentence was funny at all,and your entire lecture was based on assumptions.You assume everything negative about Pakistani culture purely based on thge typical propoganda.

    This new found concern for the “baloch” where your govt is funding an insurgency, is nothing but a wish to see harm to the Pakistani state.while your Indian state committed the most barbaric suppression of the Sikhs in 84 and Modi Govt is accused of being the architect of muslim carnage in Gujrat riots.

    .Your Govt states Naxalite revolt is the most serious threat to your country and you assume it will be resolved soon.Not till more then 50% of your population which has not been touched by the development of your economy get a fair share in your countries wealth.

    Dont tell me about the tolerance of your society where minorities continue to struggle. and you have sizeble minority too.

    Pakistan’s troubles have also been influenced by outside powers and they date back to the soviet occupation og afghanistan.I dont need to go into details as they are well known.

    Majority of Pakistanis have no issues with any minority,those who do have are being exposed and confronted.

    Coming to Kashmir,they will never reconcile with India over their demands..63 years and counting.You may wish the issue to go away,or for them to settle with your cheap autonomy thing.Pakistan and kashmiris will not.

    Remember its the missing K that needs to cometo where it belongs.

    I was hoping for objectivity with you but you are no different.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @Abrar,

    Let me rebut you point by point, just to educate you that your assumptions are wrong

    a) India’s concern for the state murders of Balochis are genuine. Our world view is “sab ka bhala ho…” Imagine the missing persons in Baluchistan are more than 24000. Do you really think the world should say that let us sleep over this?

    b) The riots in 84 in India were sad and we all hang our heads in shame for them. However prior to that Pakistan had fomented terrorism in Punjab through some agents. This had lead to the ultimate death of the PM, indira Gandhi and some religious tensions. Yes the riots are blot on our democracy. In my own family I have cousins who are Sikhs. So I know for sure that amends have been made. Still the Congress party must do more to hang perpetuators like Sajjan Kumar who have not been punished.

    We now have a Sikh PM. And Indians are proud that at one point we had a Sikh PM and a Muslim President.

    Can you ever think of a HIndu PM and a SIkh President in Pakistan? :)

    c) As far as the riots in Gujarat go, we have a commission probing into it. Thye were not as huge as your Pakistani media makes them out to be. The culprits must be punished. But, remember that the communal tensions again occured because the Pakistani trained jehadis and fanatics had been systematically killing HIndus. Why ignore that factor?

    Crowds, unfortunately get swayed when they see a mass murder. And when 58 Hindu pilgrims were burnt to death in Godhra, the crowds went out of control. However in future the Indian state needs to build up a strategy so that the murder committed by a fanatic does not lead to reprisals against the community to which the fanatic belongs.

    The community to has to disown killers who say that they are killing on their behalf.

    d) The Pakistani media must have fed you the lies about 50%^ of India being untouched by development! Sure there are large sections which are poor. But it is probably 15-20%. The rest is communist/leftist lies to discredit the free market economic model India follows now.

    Sometimes individual,states also highlight their poverty to higher degrees to get more central funds….

    c) As far as Pakistan’s troubles go they were always there because Pakistan has been built on a faulty model. That one religion (Islam) is supreme. That one community (Punjabis) are much superior. That Pakistan really does not require democracy and secularism. etc etc

    You have used Afghanistan as an economic opportunity for getting money from US and Europe. If you look into your history since 1980, you guys have created problems in afghanistan whenever you require money or need to create employment !!

    NOw your employees — the Taliban and Haqqanis and the fanatics are just coming back to roost… :)

    d) Keep dreaming about getting the “K” back into Pakistan. Meanwhile remember that the “P” and the “A” and “S” of Pakistan are falling apart :)

    By the way read Selig harrison in the NEw York Times. You will realise that a rebellion is brewing up in occupied Kashmir. And that you have handed over a large part of Gilgit and Baltistan to China.

    So much for your convern for Kashmir :)

    Bye… Jai Shri Ram… Khuda Hafiz….

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    @vijay
    why was there killing of 58 hindu pilgrims at first place.. and what is the pilgrim site??

    who claimed handing over gilgit/baltistan over to china??

    is jai shri ram the good bye phrase in hindi?? .. i can make out khuda hafiz but what is “shri ram” ??

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    Sal and fellow Pakistanis,

    We are not in favour of Plebiscite. However since Paksitan loves the word, let us first have a plebiscite in Baluchistan !!! :)

    Then in Sindh :) :)

    Followed by NWFP.

    Since all these areas have forged and forced documents of accession :)

    Sal Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar

    Please dont talk nonsense. For God’s sake. I know you are mature person. So please behave like a mature person. I am not going personel with you.

    Baluchistan became part of Pak by conducting a referndum in 47 and people of Balochistan had voted for Pak in that referendum. Furthermore, Khan of Kalat (Balochistan) also joined Pak. Similary Sindh had also voted for Pak in 47 and Muslim League won almost all of the seat in 45-46 elections. The same case is with NWFP too. People of NWFP too have voted for Pak in referendum in 47.

    I am not asking for a plebescite in Assam, Nagalanad, Tripura, Aurna chal Perdesh, Sikim, Tamil Nadu etc. where separatist movement going on. These are your internal matters. We dont care…the people of above mentioned areas want to live with you or not. We dont care United Liberation Assam Front (ULFA) and 24 others separatist movements.

    But I am asking a plebescite only in Kashmir because it was promised with them by your Chacha Nehro in UN and Sri Nagar and people of Kashmir had never joined India. This is a difference.

    You have said you are not in a favor of plebescite. The reason is obivous. People of Kashmir will vote aginst you in a plebescite so this is why you are not in a favour of plebescite after making a promise.

    abrar Reply:

    @Sal.

    Well said.

    The problem with the indian posters is in order to deflect their weak case on Kashmir they bring up “other” issues that have nothing to do with kashmir dispute.

    Kashmir is an internationally recognised dispute.what has happened is the Indian ruling class has faked its accession to India through dubious means and presented that as “legitimate” to its people. Now over the years through media propoganda it has made it into a nationalistic issue. Those who see though this propoganda are not provided the means to say the truth and are labelled as “unpatriotic”.

    The result is the only voice you hear is of shallow right wing bigots from RSS,BJP and other communal organisations.

    Rajeev Reply:

    What about rights of Balochis and Sindhis? Balochistan is also a dispute and India is party to it.

    Free Balochitan now.

    shaikh salim Reply:

    @rajeev,
    wah wah .. india is a party to it!!! can’t help out myself to stop laughing… seriously you need to consult a vet.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Yes, India is party to it. Balochistan was part of undivided India that was swallowed forcefully by punjabi pakistanis. We will take Balochistan case to UN and divide pakistan again just like 1971…The game is just starting…

    Rajeev Reply:

    Khan of Kalat wanted to keep Balochistan free but Jinnah with support from Pak army forced him to sign the treaty.
    We don’t accept Balochistan as part of Pakistan. It should be free..

    Bugti Zindabad.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Nehro gaya tel lene..

    abrar Reply:

    Vijay,

    India has suddenly woken up to Balochistan which has no cultural or geographical links to your country. It is also worth noting that since India got more access to afghanistan during the last several years the situation has worsened (Indian counsulates in Kandahar and Herat dont just issue Visas”).

    You talk about Pak interfearence in India but conveniently ignore Indias blatant interfearence in Balochistan as even acknowledged by your Goverment.

    Nobody in India at the higher echelons of power been sentenced for the Sikh carnage of 84,I follow your NDTV too.There is still resentment in Punjab over this issue (26 years after the tragedy)

    Dont twist the events of Gujrat,the were broadcast world wide excpet you people have elevated the criminal Modi into the PM in waiting..

    POK stories are lies except for the construction work being done there.

    Kashmir will join Pakistan once the UN plebicite takes place.

    Rajeev Reply:

    We will not allow PoK to be part of China…Bloody coward pakistanis will even eat pork to please chinese.

    Sal Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar

    When I gave you information on Balochistan to improve your knowledge then Why should I not take the opportunity to discuss dozens of Indian separatist movements. Here I will just take their names of the reiogns where separatist movements going on in different parts of India from Kashmir (one end) to North East of India together with political parties and armed rebilion groups . You forced me to do this.

    Separatist Movements in India

    1) Andhra Pradesh
    Political party: Jai Andhra

    2) Arunachal Pradesh
    Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
    Proposed autonomous region: Teola country

    3) Assam
    Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam
    Bodoland
    Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland
    Dimasaland
    Political party: Dima Halim Daogah

    4) Garo
    Rebel organizations: People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council
    Proposed autonomous region: Achikland

    5) Gondwana
    Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra

    6) Kamtapur
    Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
    Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation

    7) Karbi
    Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity
    Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong

    8) Karnataka
    Proposed State:Tulu Nad,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka

    9) Kashmir
    Rebel organizations:Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
    Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
    Political organizations:All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
    Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir

    10) Nagaland
    Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
    Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
    Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland

    11) Manipur
    Rebel organizations: Hmar People’s Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People’s Front of Manipur, People’s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak

    12) Mizoram
    Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization
    Proposed state: Zozam

    13) Punjab
    Proposed state: Khalistan
    Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force
    Rayalaseema

    14) Tamil Nadu
    Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army

    15) Telangana
    Political parties: Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi.

    16) Tripura
    Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force

    17) Vidarbha
    Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra.

    18) Zomi
    Political parties: Zomi National Congress

    So this is the situation currently in India. One more thing, I got is 40% of India is uner Maoist Controls/Influence. Any ways I will discuss it later.

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    @ Everyone

    Baluchistan had a virtual shutdown in the memory of Shahid Bugti.

    Let us also remember him and offer our sympathis to the people of Baluchistan…

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    Sal,

    The trouble is you guys are not willing to believe anything and call it a conspiracy.

    Vinod Sharma in this blog has stated that he had “choicest drinks” in Lahore, I am sure Pakistanis will say, “we are a pure Muslim nation and whisky is banned. This is an Indian-American-Isreali plot to defame Islam and Pakistan.” ! :)

    Look, Sal my pal, Selig is American from the New York Times. The same Country you have asked or about 10 billion dollar aid, prior to the floods and an additional billion after. New York TImes is the Paper in which all your rulers– both military dictators and minor temperory democrats — pined to be featured in and even wrote letters to.

    Now China does not trust Pakistanis to be around when they do the construction work and manage that area, as Pakistanis come with a lot of baggage like fundmantalistic thought, terrorism and suicide bombers.

    So Chinese have simply asked for 25,000 sq km of balitsatan and Gilgit, which Pakistan has ceded.

    THis is what the newspaper says and has been corraborated by my contacts in RAW.

    [Reply]

  • Rohit from Canada

    @Vijay,
    Tell you frankly, you are praising Nehru and Gandhi, but for me if you look at the situation today their decisions at the time of partition has become the biggest curse for India. If we would have treated the Muslims in the same way the Hindus and Sikhs were treated from across the border, we would be in a comfortable position today. Neither should Nehru have signed the 307 for Kashmir. When Pakistan took over the part of Kashmir which they called ‘Azad’ why were the Muslims not shunted out to that side, how come the idea of partition only implies to Hindus, they get thrown out from everywhere. This policy of Gandhi of offering your other cheek to be slapped has put us under this mess. The Indian govt has to be firm on the Kashmir issue, no Azadi, no autonomy, remove 307, this will only help the people of Kashmir to become prosperous. The Muslim population is multiplying in a big way since independence and is almost 4 times higher in the last 50 years, if we do not smarten up one day Muslims in UP, Bihar, Kerala etc will demand to be separated from India. it is their habit, ‘Jis thali mein khate hain usi mein ched karte hain’. Tell you frankly Islams policy of marrying 4 times and each woman bearing 8 kids is working out for them not only in India but around the world, the whole world is in turmoil today. Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Rohit

    i agree cent per cent with you. the video , though a Catholic propaganda , still is an eye opener. the concerned situation in India will be even worse

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Partition only applies to Hindus (to get thrown out)..

    that is the truth.

    Islam has perfected this.
    They have done in pakistan, now bangladesh, and Kashmir.

    it is a never ending saga or Hindus getting the kicked out from their anscestral lands…

    [Reply]

    farid Reply:

    Bangladesh is not an ISLAMIC country—It is a Peoples republic..I am not aware of any riot or killing –on religious ground. No PUROHIT or PRIEST were burnt alive with minor child in Bangladesh.Bangladeshi people have no animosity with eastern INDIAN nationals.

    farid,
    austin,tx.
    USA

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Farid,
    You are wrong. The beautiful country of Bangladesh started off as secular country but during 80s Genreal Ershad officialliy made it Islamic nation.

    However I do not equate cultured Bangladeshis with Islamic pakistanis. There is a large group of parties in Bangladesh who are secular in outlook and balance out Jehadi parties. However in the case of Pakistan, there are no secular parties so minorities have no one to look after their interests.

  • http://- Rajeev

    What stops pakistan from opening its gate for opressed Indian muslims? Let it do that and we will see how many Indian muslims choose pakistan over India.

    The state of pakistan offers no hope to people who live in it and those who support living out of it. It is a failed state waiting to implode from inside. India should stand with Balochis and Sindhis against paindoos and offer them moral and diplomatic support.

    On water front, I find it amusing that pakistan wants more water in summer when we (India) to have very little on our side. Now that during Mansoon season, India has abundant water, why is pakistan hestitating to take more water for next summer? We should open gates of all our dams and give pakistan its water share in advance.

    [Reply]

    farid Reply:

    @rajeeb,

    Dear sir—-whole truth is—-

    Ershad declared islam as a national religion is a fact– but CONSTITUTION says Bangladesh is still a ——————PEOPLES REPUBLIC.

    In Bangladesh –Jehadis are now behind the bar and many of them were hanged to death by courts order.These jehadis are in fact terrorist and they have no religion or ideology–Violence is the only thing they —they like.

    In India too——- MAOIST are doing the same thing —–like the jehadis

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Kayani Pakistan ko takeover karne ka practice toh nahi kar raha?

    Hope that is not true.

    There is some chance that army may come back as Vinod Sharma hints.

    Wonder what is going to happen next?

    Mussharaf redux?

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    might be so if nawaz/shahbaz sharif becomes prime minister. the two have bad repute with army.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Vinodji,

    Selig Harrison in NYT has writted that part of Gilgit and Baltistan have been donated by Pakistan to CHina. And a huge resentment is brewing in PAK. Is it true? What are the implications for India?

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    post the link .. !!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    PoK has been handed over to China..India should not accept this.

    [Reply]

  • Rohit from Canada

    Chadhaji and Vijay,
    Kayani waise hi boss hai Pakistan ka, ISI ka bhi boss reh chuka hai. There is no need for him to take over the reigns of the govt. Right now democracy ke naam se khoob paisa kama rahen hai. Most of the money is going to the army anyway jo bheek se mil raha hai. Gilani aur Zardari has been kept to go begging, it does not look good for the army chief to do so. US is helping them a lot, if army rule comes in then they wont have a explanation to do so, to jaisa Malik bolega waisa hi karenge.
    Vijay,
    I guess you are right, past is past, but mark my words, you may give your life for these people, but they will stab you at the back as soon as they get the first chance. Just see what happened here in Toronto last week. You cannot put sense into them. Propaganda to kar rahe hain, agenda abhi tak samajh nahin aya. Amazing thing is that seeing what Pakistan is all about, they are still anti India.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Shaikh, here is the first para of the article which shows that Pakistan gives a damn about Kashmir and has handed part of it to China for its use.

    You can reas the total article in New York Times or Indian Express/

    Now can you elighten me why — if your love for Kashmir is genuine– you have no qualms of selling it for aid to CHina ??? :)

    ===========================================
    .H.T. Op-Ed Contributor
    China’s Discreet Hold on Pakistan’s Northern BorderlandsBy SELIG S. HARRISON
    Published: August 26, 2010
    Facebook
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    Reprints

    Share
    Close
    LinkedinDiggMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalink. While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

    The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

    China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang
    ========================================

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    that is not the official handover but rather for construction and development projects. we share good relations with china and yes there is a situation where people demand (mostly foreign aid agencies backed) that no chinese agency should be handed over the task/project for development. most of the area of gilgit/balitistan is shia-ismaili and are funded with european money under agha khan trust.

    the various projects aims construction of bhasha dam, road constructions and strechtes out to gwadar port development. this is of serious concern to you and the americans.

    [Reply]

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    If you read the report closely, it clearly states that Pakistanis are not allowed in the areas being governed by the CHinese. Further the locals are up in arms and there is a rebellion brewing out there.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar

    Moost of the times you talk nonsense. This artcile is written against Pak and China and in favour of India and US.

    This article describes Pak Kashmir as Pak occupied Kashmir and Indian Kashmir as Indian ruled Kashmir. This artcile says in Indian Kashmir, people are fighting for autonomy…Nope..They are fighting for independence and many more lies.

    There is no rebillion in 1.8 million of total population of glit baltistan. If you think, you are corrcet then Pak is ready to held a plebecite in Pak Kashmir together with Indian Kashmir. Then according to you, People of Pak Kashmir and Indian Kashmir will vote for India and then you will have a whole Kashmir. Does it make sense.

  • vijay kumar

    Disturbing news coming in from Pakistan.

    – Rajiv Shah, An Indian-American, now incharge of USAID was a possible target of a suicide bomb attack, when he went to visit a flood relief camp.

    Is their a possible message in this?

    The Pakistani government literally prostrated itself before the world to get money for the flood victims. Okay, I have no issues with that. If the country is bankrupt then you might as well get the world to help you.

    But now that the money has come, is it someone in high places letting the world know that they must not question how it is being spent??

    It is possible that the politicians and bureaucrats are eyeing the flood relief funds with bad intention and are scaring the donors not to closely examine how they spend the money…

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Do not be surprised when Pakistan & Bangladesh will impose Jizya on Hindus there.
    Afterall it is recommended by Islam.

    They have to impose Jizya to humiliate Hindus.

    Rights of non-muslims in an islamic state.
    http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/Rights-of-Non-Muslims.pdf

    [Reply]

    abrar Reply:

    Unprovoked: India’s crimes. in Kashmir

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5jvKA6FSwHfK3D4qLBBHtEDQt5rlwD9HTTJB80?index=3

    [Reply]

  • abrar

    The problem with the indian posters is in order to deflect their weak case on Kashmir they bring up “other” issues that have nothing to do with kashmir dispute.

    Kashmir is an internationally recognised dispute.what has happened is the Indian ruling class has faked its accession to India through dubious means and presented that as “legitimate” to its people. Now over the years through media propoganda it has made it into a nationalistic issue. Those who see though this propoganda are not provided the means to say the truth and are labelled as “unpatriotic”.

    The result is the only voice you hear is of shallow right wing bigots from RSS,BJP and other communal organisations.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Arbar,
    Stop your non-sensical foolish comments that only reveal your ignorance.

    Do you think history of Kashmir starts with coming of a Jihadi intolerant ideology from Saudi Arabia to this beautiful valley of India ??

    Go and read what the communal, bigoted separatist Geelani has to say . Thugs like him and Jinnah have given Taleban, Pakistan and the terrorists the world over. It won’t happen here again.

    [Reply]

  • Jai Vaidya

    Naseem’s Zehra getting schooled in Baloch history.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0cjJGI__gU

    [Reply]

  • abrar

    Telegraph UK Has a recent article on the brutal crack down on unarmed kashmiri civilians.

    Anyone (no matter if indian) reading the article should be upset and ashmed of the way the Indian security forces have behaved in Kashmir.

    You may be mascarading truth for now due but not for long.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    Wow! I like it! Putting mascara on the truth = ‘mascarading truth’!! Gr8 —!

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Shaikh Salim, my dear brother…

    Here is poetry I read at the free Baluchistan site.

    If you talk about Kashmir, we will talk about Baluchistan first.

    Let me make it clear. I dont endorse this language. I am quoting the anger and angst of our Baluchi brothers

    The poem goes as—————–

    ” pehle number ka shetan pakistan pakistan

    dahshat gardon ka sultan pakistan pakistan

    naslo sa harami panjabi

    peso ka pojari panjabi

    sindhi baloch doure dour bhag pajnabi behen k ****

    jiye sindh jiye balochistan

    **** po*kistan
    ———————————————

    You can go to YOUTUBE free Baluchistan Independence for more such poetry.

    Dear Shaikh, this blog should now also talk about the fate, desires and aspirations of our Baluchi brothers, should/nt it?

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    my dear vijay bro.. why waste energy on balochis.. kyun aapna bhi time waste kartay ho… if wanna utilize then i’ve shown you the right path to utilize your potential. help naxals to liberate ..

    salam .. by the way what is the hindi version for good bye?

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Naxlites dont want liberation. They want to replace religion with communism. Do you want Indians– Muslims, Hindus and Christians to give up religion and follow Maoist communist thought? Anyway they will come around for talks and will be given devlopment in those areas?

    Salaam… Shaikh can also be reciprocated by Namaste :)

    shaikh salim Reply:

    okay! ask them we’ll allow you more freedom .. go take away the seven states and make a new one ‘naxalistan’. jungle meyn mungle ho jaye ga.

    thanks for the word.

    Rajiv Reply:

    @IDIOT Sal,

    While you spend you poor IQ collecting information on your imagined or otherwise 1001 Indian insurgencies, has it dawned on your fake degree brain that why India is bigger and stronger than ever before while Pakistan is 1/2 of what it was and shrinking ?

    Sal Reply:

    @Rajiv

    How much India holds Pak territory and how much Pak holds territory of your integral part of a Country. That explains everything.

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Arbar,
    India is too lenient handling the jihadi hooligan stone throwers.
    Do you want India to deal them like Pak does, with bombs from air-planes, helicopter gunships and shelling of entire towns and villages which have killed thousands of civilians and rendered millions homeless in Pak ?

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    quite frankly .. one might not have witnessed so much domestic displacement of refugees. whole of tribal agencies, swat valley was evacuated by army and political infs to go aggresively against the militants. that is true.

    militancy will be dealt with iron hand.

    [Reply]

  • abrar
  • vijay kumar

    @Everyone : :) :) :) GUESS THE CORRECT ANSWER :) :) :)

    A diversion for now.

    The exposure of match fixing by Pakistanis, just shows the depth of duplicity the Pakistanis have, while putting up a face of “we are pure sunni Muslims and thank (s) all the Muslims of the world for supporting the cricket team.”

    Now they have been caught with their pants down, I am giving a list of possible excuses they can give for accepting the bribes.

    a) This is an INdia- Isreal – USA- Hindu- Jew – Christian conspiracy to defame Pakistan and Islam

    b) We were accepting the money for flood relief :) :)

    c) This is a doctored tape, morphed by Indian- Isreali technolgy

    d) None of the above !!

    All of us can tick any of the above. The person who gives the answer which will the used by the Pakistanis will be given a free one way ticket (return ticket is useless ) to Pakistan !

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balwaristan looking to India for AZAADI..
    http://kashmirihindu.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/balawaristan-national-fronts-letter-to-indian-prime-minister-november-27th-2001/

    Baloch plead India to intervene on its behalf
    http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers34%5Cpaper3313.html

    Pakhtunwa wants to be part of Afghanistan (Indian ally and future satellite state)
    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?239754

    Jinnahpur under Pir murshid Altaf Bhai, wants to be under Indian guidance
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinnahpur

    Sindhudesh – Wants to return to its secular roots under protection from India
    http://www.jssf.8k.com/custom.html

    Pakistan Murdabad…

    Balwaristan Zindabad,
    Balochistan Zindabad
    Jinnhpur Zindabad
    Sindhudesh Zindabad
    Pakhtunwa Zindabad..

    Down with pakistani punjabi imperialism…

    [Reply]

    abrar Reply:

    Police fire kills 11-year-old in Indian (Held) Kashmir

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jvKA6FSwHfK3D4qLBBHtEDQt5rlwD9HTTJB80

    Criminal acts which should be used for future prosecution of those responsible commiting and ordering them.The ICJ should be the venue of these cases.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What was 11 year doing on streets when he knew it was not safe..Bloody cowards are using children as protective shields…These converted kashmiri muslims have touched a new low…

    Sal Reply:

    The 11 years old was on street for independence because you people didnt keep your promise which you made with this 11 years old in UN and SriNagar i.e. Plebescite.

    Sal Reply:

    Most of your references doesnt tell anything. And some of your references are from Indian sources. Is it not funny, you are giving me your own sources regarding your’s enemy’s country. I have given all of the references of Indian separatist movements from Indian sources and/or indepdndent sources like Times. None of them is from Pak sourcses regarding indian separatist movements.

    Now you have started talking rubbish. Altaf Hussein is a Pakistani Nationalist person who always talks about Pakistan. And his party MQM is in coalition Govt of Sindh with PPP and MQM is also sitting in a coaltion federal govt of Pak together with ANP and PPP.

    ANP is ruling Khyber Pakhtunkha and in a federal coalition govt of Pak with MQM, PPP and JUP.

    There is no separatist movements going on in Pak Kashmir. If you think, you are correct then Pak is ready for a plebescite in Pak Kashmir together with Indian Kashmir.

    There is not problem in Sindh at all. PPP is the biggest part of Interior Sindh which is forming the current Govt of Pak.

    And Balochistan, Balochistan is 4% of Pak’s population inwhich 1.5% are Baloch (By the way I am Baloch too). Few people in Baochistan are asking for their right over province’s resources.

    Look. I am answering all of your questions.

    Kashmir will definitely get Independence as sacrifices of people including youth, women, men, elderly people will never go waste. Yes..I am talking about 2/5 approx of Kashmir which is under indian occupation.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Whatever you say, Balochistan is going Bangladesh way..read DAWN everyday.

    We will help balochis realise their dream…Even Tibet is on agenda.

    Sal Reply:

    Today Kashmiris break the curfew again and protest once again for Independence.

  • Rajiv

    How about taking bribes from a Kafir and defrauding kafir bookies will get Pak players double rewards in heaven.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    One of the free Baluchistan sites has the following quotes

    ” Without balochistan pak is nothing remmber balochistan is 42% of pak and holds around 80% of resources such as gas and minerals to provide for all of pakistan, balochistan resources are feeding pakistan remember this so if balochistan seperates frm pakistan the only nation that will suffer is pakistan! if balochistan can feed all of pakistan then those resources concentrated specificly on balochistan province wil giv us more then enough to lead our own country. beat that if u can….”{

    It seems that the Baluchi people have been tortured and killed by the Punjabis for too long.

    Being a Punjabi (grandparents from Pakistan immigrated to India in 47) I offer my condolences to the Baluchi people. We the Indian Punjabis atone for the sins of the Pakistani Punjabis.

    We can help you in your freedom struggle :)

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    please help liberate kashmir, assam, misoram, nagaland, khalistan .. etc.. i’ll be highly obliged. your services are required there not in baluchistan. leave that on us to take care of balochis…

    ja jaaaa kar soo ja. or look for pigeons outside.

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    ————- WHY I AM POSTING THE TRUTH ABOUT BALUCHISTAN ——————

    For too long all meaningfull discussions with Pakistanis end up with them trying to hijack the aganeda and say that talk shalk– kebab shabab, everything is okay but you have to Jammu and Kashmir to us, otherwise we will keep fomenting terror out there.

    I am trying to put everything in the proper perspective. That for one, not all of Jammu and Kashmir is disaffected with India. And the part that is, is small in area and has a large amount of Pakistani interference.

    It is time that we show the Pakistanis the truth about its own independence movements. And In case they support some in Kashmir, we should do it in Baluchistan and Sindh.

    Sorry Vinodji. My apologies in case you think I am hijacking this blog .

    [Reply]

  • shaikh salim

    it seems like mr vijay kumar has completely lost all of this senses and suddenly woke from a sound sleep. i request all to pay regards and condolences to mr vijay. may he rest in peace.

    by the way wasn’t he the appointed moderator of the blog??

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sal,
    Here is the reply…
    [1) Andhra Pradesh
    Political party: Jai Andhra ]

    FAKE made up name..typical **** imagination.

    2) Arunachal Pradesh
    [Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
    Proposed autonomous region: Teola country ]

    There is no problem in arunachal. FAKE

    3) Assam
    [Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam
    Bodoland
    Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland
    Dimasaland
    Political party: Dima Halim Daogah ]

    ULFA is problem…Democratic front is part of mainstream…third party is FAKE.

    [4) Garo
    Rebel organizations: People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council
    Proposed autonomous region: Achikland ]

    FAKE

    [5) Gondwana
    Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra ]

    BIG FAKE

    [6) Kamtapur
    Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
    Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation ]

    FAKE AGAIN..I guess ISI is feeding you guys lot of garbage.

    [7) Karbi
    Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity
    Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong ]

    FAKE

    [ Karnataka
    Proposed State:Tulu Nad,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka ]

    BIG FAKE

    [9) Kashmir
    Rebel organizations:Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
    Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
    Political organizations:All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
    Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir ]

    TRUE..BUT pak sponsored…

    [10) Nagaland
    Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
    Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
    Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland ]

    TRUE. but parties names fake..

    [11) Manipur
    Rebel organizations: Hmar People’s Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People’s Front of Manipur, People’s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak ]

    TRUE under control

    [12) Mizoram
    Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization
    Proposed state: Zozam ]

    FAKE

    [13) Punjab
    Proposed state: Khalistan
    Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force
    Rayalaseema ]

    MOVEMENT is done..FAKE propaganda by pakistanis.

    [14) Tamil Nadu
    Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army ]

    FAKE

    [15) Telangana
    Political parties: Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi. ]

    The demand is for separate state WITHIN INDIA. Pakistani liars…

    [16) Tripura
    Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force ]

    PARTLY true.

    [17) Vidarbha
    Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra. ]

    Want separate state in India..

    [18) Zomi
    Political parties: Zomi National Congress ]

    REPEATED..FAKE

    [So this is the situation currently in India. One more thing, I got is 40% of India is uner Maoist Controls/Influence. Any ways I will discuss it later.]

    It is totally unconfirmed…

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    Shaikh, my brother…

    Arre yaar, You are right! I have woken up from sound sleep.

    All the time I was trying to give you logical answers on why the Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir issues cannot be the way Pakistan dreams they will be.

    In fact Pakistan has gifted part of Gilgit and Baltistan to China and you guys are sleeping.

    And Baluchistan is fighting for freedom along with Sindh and you guys are sleeping …

    But I have woken up. And trying to tell fellow bloggers of what is happening in Pakistan, knowledge of which might be censored from you

    [Reply]

    shaikh salim Reply:

    dear vijay .. excuse .. not just focus on waken position try append losing all your senses as well.
    no good if you are awake if all of your senses are lost.

    namaste,

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @For Only Vijay Kumar

    I give you some information on Balochistan. I am sure it will not effect you but still its my duty to improve your knowledge on Balochistan.

    No state/province of Subcontinent (India,Pak, Bangladesh) was bigger than Balochistan in terms of area. Balochistan is 42% of Pak’s area but it is just 4% of Pak in terms of population and this population is scattered in roughly 344,000 sq km of area of Balochistan.

    More than 50% of Balochistan’s population is Pashtuns, Brohavi, Makrani and Sindhi etc and
    roughly 45% of Balochistan’s population is Baloch. The Pashtuns are in majority in capital Quetta.

    There are few people in 45% of Balochistan’s population are asking for their rights on province’s resources (Balochistan is included in one of the eigth regions of the world which are rich in natural resources like Oil, copper, gas, Gold etc). Some people too are asking for provincial autonomy. Every thing is available on internet and many of them are available for Propaganda. So my point is..there are few people of 45% of Balochistan who are fighting.

    Now why do you point Balochistan…Because you have nothing else to compare your Kashmir.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Balochistan banega Hindustan..

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pakistan ka matlab kya..
    l**d pe chade humko kya..

  • http://- Rajeev

    Sal,
    Now let me tell you about pakistan.

    Freedom seeking nations in pakistan-
    1. Balwaristan (Balwaristan national front).

    2. Pakistan occupied Kashmir (propaganda name Azad Kashmir) – Hurriyat conference, National Conference, PDP, JKLF

    3. Pakhtunwa (wants to be merged with mother country afghanistan) – ANP, Taliban

    3. Balochistan (Wants to be independent or part of India) – BNF, BLA and many others.

    4. Jinnahpur (Free country under protection of India) – MQM under the able leadership of Peer Altaf Hussain

    5. Sindhudesh (Jeay Sindh) – A free country…demanded by followers of GM Sayeed..and covertly supported by PPP and MQM,

    6. Punjab – Punjabi Taliban wants a free country to be ruled under Shariat. May become Indian colony.

    Almost 100% of pakistan is under control of Taliban…I’ll come back to this later.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Rajeev

    ANP, MQM are both in Pak Govt. MQM is ruling Karachi and part of Federal Govt of Pak. ANP is ruling Khyber Pakhtunwah and Part of federal Govt of Pak.

    And as far as GM Syed is concerned, even people of Sindh doesnt give vote to GM Syed. Insted, they vote to PPP from last 6 elections..

    All otherthngs you have said here is totally open lies which not needs to be answered.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You can tell lies..but on ground Atlaf openly said “pakistan was a mistake”…We will help all the opressed nations in pakistan to come out of punjabi imperialism.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Rajeev

    He said years ago in India. But at at the same time at the samespeech, he also told that Pak has now been made and will exist for till the judgement day.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Baloch have been saying…
    Pakistan ka matlab kya..
    l**d pe chade humko kya..

    India should now take this dispute to UN and side firmly with Balochis..They deserve freedom from punjabis. After that we should pay attention to pleas of Sindhudesh..

    [Reply]

  • Rohit from Canada

    Sal and party,
    All the time you guys are harping about the crimes and police brutality in Kashmir, about removing the army from cities. The whole problem is the crappy terrorist and jehadis which are coming trained from Pakistan. All the cities have been infiltrated by them and everyday there are confrontations. You have a prominent leader saying right in Srinagar that 15th august should be a black day and 14th August should be celebrated, you say remove the army and we say that the army and police are not doing enough. Jo Pakistan ke taraf hai unki g**nd pe bandook maar ke nikal do, deshdrohi ko goli se bhoon do. Do this for 2 days and see if they don’t straighten up. Sale chote chote bachon ko saamne karke marvate hain, Bachon ki kya value hai, aur paida kar lenge. Pata nahin kya expect karte hain police se phoolon ki mala chahte hain kya. Khud jo shit kar rahe hain uski koi baat nahi karta. India ko bhi sharam nahi aati aur firmly kuch karte nahin, Sri Lanka se kuch seekhna chahiye.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Rohit

    First Learn manners or ask your parents to give you some lessons on manners. This is their reponsibility.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    Dear Abrar,

    The instruement of accesion of Balushistan was foul and evil. Let us free Baluchistan which does not want to be part of Pakistanis terror.

    If you want to face Allah fairly and squarely, why dont you contribute to the “free Baluchistan fund??”

    [Reply]

    abrar Reply:

    kashmir is an issue and disputed.How come you avoid commenting o n my links which show the draconian powers and misuse of them by Indian forces in Kashmir?

    Did you see the picture and why the person was protesting.

    [Reply]

  • abrar

    Another media report

    “Restrictions, shutdown paralyze life in India-controlled Kashmir”

    http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7127388.html

    [Reply]

  • Hermoon Gill

    There is already a question mark over the impartiality of this blog,which shows both India and Pakistan flags on the top right.
    Comments from Pakistanis are not published.
    On the other hand Pakistani newspaper blogs are open for Indians and comments with even foul language get published,wonder why.
    I think it gets to show,who is free and who is not.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    He amply made it clear there is no likelihood of resumption of talk in the near future .

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    palestanian say that stop land grabbing then talk peace.in oslo they talked 11 years and break everything which was agreed.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    May I ask are you Indian first or Palestinian first?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Why can’t Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. give a part of their land and create Palestine?

    [Reply]

  • RajX

    By the way, why would israleis or any other country for that matter recognize a group of people who don’t recognize their right to exist? I was listening to a BBC program on this topic and not one palestian and other Muslims who are talking for palestians gave a straight answer to the question from the host if Israel has a right to exist as a state. On the other hand, all Israelis and Jews on that program unreservedly accepted the right for palestians to exist as a state. The Palestinians are former Egyptians and jordanians. Maybe Israel should give west bank to Jordan and gaza to Egypt and let’s see how these two countries treat these “Palestinians”.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Maybe Israel should give west bank to Jordan and gaza to Egypt and let’s see how these two countries treat these “Palestinians”.

    palestine is historical identity while jordan is 100 years old,came into existence through imperialist bandar baat(monkey trading).

    arabs are ready to recognize provided isreal return back to 1945 terrotery and stop the bussines of land grabbing.how they are opposing the formation of palestine state reveals their true intentions.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    The Israelis will never give up Jerusalem. That’s very clear and I am sure you understand that too. The Palestinians can make a deal and bring peace and progress to their community or they can unwisely fight for something they can never hope to get against a significantly stronger power like Israel. The bottom line is there is no clean solution to most problems. Land belongs to people who are strong enough to hold on to it. There are communities all around the world who live in lands which don’t belong to them making the original inhabitants of the land powerless. If people all over the world ask for a clean solution to their problems, there will be blood everywhere.

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  • RajX

    So what you are implicitly saying is that the plight of tibetians or hindu kashmiris does not enter the perspective of this Indian who happens to be a Muslim even though these two situations affect india more directly? Why not? Are Muslims programmed to rally only to causes promoted by fellow Arab Muslims? Is Zia an high commissioner of Islam and he is temporarily residing in India? Your statement raises a lot of questions about your mindset.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    palestanians wants peace but isreal has to withdraw 1945 terrotery.uno gave them 45%of palestine they are occupying 90%.they are land grabbers and terrorist.ashknazi have no historical calim on this land they should go back to their country of origin.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    ignorant jahil khosla,,
    u are liar and propagandist.jews are not arabs they are originally egyptian few of them came to arabia during moses period.at present most of the jewsin isreal are ashknazis who have no history or dna link with palestine.this is absolute rubbish and wrong to say that jews were mascared wqhen islam came.
    they were doing usuar(interest)bussines in that area,enslaving the people and sucking the blood from the veins of local inhibants.
    when prophet mohammed stopped usuary bussines they migrated to venice.

    all other point which u mentioned are nothing but bullshit as crores of jews were living in muslim countries becfore isreal came into existence.

    arab jews are tretaed like shudras in isreal.now they remember their good old days with muslim and christian palestanian.

    dont forget that hazrat omar brought back the jew to jerusalam.christian expelled them.

    like bhaand u only do propaganda bussines without any truth.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    because they were awarded 45%of palestine by uno.now they they have 90%of palestine through land grabbing.they should vacate that land.livein peace.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    guest bibi is biggest crook.they are nogotiating from last 40 years without any result.negotiaton means to take time to grab more and land from west bank.bibi is a cheater.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Well…allhamdulillah bibi is not a suicide bomber nor does he promote suicide bombing restaurants in gaza or west bank nor does he say that he will drive the Palestinians into the sea.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    rights of kashmiri pundits is recognized by kashmiris.now in india being brhmns they are treated well and are settled nicely.they will not go back to kashmir.they have joined the gang of brhmns who are fkng india.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    ur comment shows ur lack of knowledge.muslims consider jesus and moses as their prophet and respect them.even now there are 2crores christians living in arab world.
    in palestine muslims and christians are jointly fighting isreali occupation.christian crusaders killed millions of jews not muslims.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Islamist jihads killed millions of Hindus and other nonmuslims. They probably killed some of ur forefathers too.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    when ,can u name where where.can u show anything written by any brhmn of that time who wrote anything bad about moghul emporers.including tulsidas.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    india was ruled by muslims indians were ruled by brhmns it is they who were fkng indians.sucked every drop of blood from the veins of indians.

  • engrich

    abc force is way to solve any problem.isreal is under of europen ashknaazi jews.jews of other origing are not ready to accept their hegemony hence lot of demostrations and protests are going on there.ashknaazi treat local semitic jews as brhmns treated local indians,shudras.
    now they have seprated even their schools.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    snil ghaza and west were occupied in 1967 by israelis.but they did had enough jews to rehablitate there.so soviet union was destroyed.jews were taken to isreal.most of them returned are on the way of returning.cannot bear the atmosphere of religious aparthied state.syria has 4500 jews .some of them migrated to isreal,but returned almost immediately.pledging never to go there.

    last jew from iraaq told in lecture to jewish boys that FOR JEWS IRAQ WAS THE GARDEN OF EDEN.U CAN LISTEN HIS LECTURE ON u-tube.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    bibi is cheater his only aim to hold terroteries.HIS ORIGINAL NAME IS ATTALAH ABDULRAHEEM NOUL.he is from sudan master in nuban language.he was hiding himself among muslims with muslim name.like indian jews(brhmns)are hiding among indians.fooling us

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Indian Jews are Brahmins?? Hahahah.. You are a funny guy. You almost sound like tajender.

    [Reply]

  • RajX

    Your heart beats for the Arabs but I am sure that Kashmiri Hindus are oppressors. Can’t blame you. You have been arabized.

    [Reply]

  • RajX

    I think ur leaders understand that. Good for you. We, alas, have weak kneed girly men for leaders. They have still not got the guys who planned the Mumbai attacks even though they know who they are and where they are living. Pathetic.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    sometime they throw projectile to bring their case to world attention.in response they naplam sulphur and depleter uranium bombs.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    yes i deny.jews of european origin has no right over palestine.
    semitic jews opposed them as vehemently as muslims or christians.
    when jews were descending in palestine,almost every semitic jew gave memorendum to general balfour opposing their arrival.
    this memorundum is available in archive.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    u are right but ashknazi jews are not from palestine.they have european dna origin is khazr.they have nothing to do with semitic jews of palestine.they are mostly atheist.i doubt if they are jews.once their king ordered them to choose from one of the revealed religion,they have choosen judaism to avoid conflict from western christians and eastern muslim.but i think they are still pagan.call themselves jew to have control of palestine.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mohammadanism has produced 1.2 billion morons like Zia…One day whole of muslim world will be called MORONISTAN.

    [Reply]

  • Ramesh Talwani

    WHY NOT FDI IN MEDIA?HT WILL BE WIPED OUT?

    [Reply]

  • http://profiles.google.com/pvariel P V Ariel

    Its really interesting to note that
    Our Fauji’s are now under
    fire within the boundaries.
    How sad and sorry state it is.
    Where the ordinary can find peace
    Is a big question left out now!!!

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/rajeshdipti Rajesh thakkar

    How Far Can Politicos go….The day is not far when the Army take cudgels in their hand and cleanse the political system…shall b a sad day but befitting in present environment…

    [Reply]