Bereaved Motherhood

What is needed is clear thinking and not muddled emotions.

The world should ostracize and isolate those countries that practice and legalize religious discrimination, like it did to South Africa during apartheid for legalizing racial discrimination,

3 countries, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Israel, top the list of those countries that have legalized religion based discrimination. They need to be condemned and isolated from democratic, secular nations.

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As the article relates to an of issue of motherhood, but is confined to a particular place; so are the comments. Motherhood is the noblest and greatest gift.We are all born to our mothers. I have not seen GOD, and hope none of us; but I have seen my mother, who has all the qualities that we seek in GOD; compensionate;kind and always ready to sacrifice every thing, even her life. Why is this happening and will it ever cease to happen ? Yes, only when we leave selfishness; me and myself.
When we realise; that air, water; sun; moon and mother earth is for all of us. Let us not divide on the
basis of religion; caste;colour;creed and country. Are we prepaed to act upon it?

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In fact religion,caste and profession are intertwinged and goes on changing. To day one may be Hindu, the other day he may be Chritian and next day he may have ebrasses Islam or Budhism as pre his thinking. Similaly one may be carpenter today the next day he may goldsmith and third day he may be a blacksmith. So one is unable to understand how caste is related to ones life. Today one may be Australian bext day he may be Italion or Russion. These are mane made boundries having no rationale.. It is the politicians/ in colobaration with religious peers (goons) how are dividing societies and spread hatered.

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Hats off Mr. Sharma for bringing up the words of Nurit Peled-Elhanan a women!!!
Its really a heart touching speech …!!!!
and u guys(rajiv,azhar,raju etc) ..please yaar cut ur **** now…at least giv it a break…..how can u guys cant stop such a fullish debate after reading such an emotional and true word from a suffering lady ..!!!

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it may be beleivable that USA has selfish interests but i will never believe the same for Israel. if the Jews stops creating war machines and turn like the kind of people this idiot women expects them to be , then soon the Muslims will annhilate them. All the Muslims in the blog however have supported the article because of its pro-Muslim bull s-h-i-t.

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Dear Vinodji,

I know of nsome Kashmiris who now are settled in Delhi as thier houses were forcibly occupied by forces of evil who have come from the Mafia organization called Pakistan.

Similarly 166 people died in Mumbai because of terrorists trained by the Mafia organiztion called Pakistan.

Could you , as a journalist, committed to impartiality, interview some of the mothers of those murdered by the vile killers??

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Dr Nurit Peled-Elhanan, Badri Raina, Teesta Setalvad, Arundhati Roy,Shabnam Hashmi,Mahesh Bhatt,Vinod Sharma……

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Dear Vinod,

The mother’s grief on our brainwashing is so chillingly accurate – We are all victims of it, and yet we continue unabated. Look at the responses of our jousting colleagues on this blog.

Indeed a touching piece, makes one wonder what kind of civilisation we are leaving behind for the future generations….

Thank you for ceding your post for this speech.

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Dear Vinod Sharma ji.
Indeed a heart rendering and very touching wail of a mother. But it is also true that this emotional outburst by a Jewish lady surely mirrors the sentiments of any other mother living anywhere on this planet and belonging to any religion whose son or daughter had been a victim of violence any where in the world. But this world is indeed very cruel, especially when it has to deal with politics. However the pain can be lessened if one becomes a little pragmatic. It is a matter of fact that both Israel and Palestine have to live as independent nations at sometime in future. So was the view of one of my Palestinian student who was pursuing a post graduate degree in one of our university. Until the Arab world is reconciled to the existence of an independent Jewish state, an independent Palestinian state will not be possible. That is a fact. The Arabs may have to compromise with many atrocities at the hands of Israel just for the sake of a better future for the coming Palestinians generation. The Arabs have fought many wars with Israel and lost each time. But the Israelis can not afford to lose even once. The moment they lose even once, that would be the end. For that reason, I suppose the Jewish state is always taking preemptive steps rather aggressively. For saying so, I should not be mistaken as a supporter of Israel, but the peace in Middle East will be not possible without taking this step. Rational thinking demands so. It will be an icing on the cake if this reconciliation comes with dignity to both the warring parties.
The world can not wait endlessly so that the Israelis are defeated in one of the wars with the Arab world for an independent Palestinian state to come into existence. So sooner the Arab world understands this reality, the better for the world and for the Palestinians. Till it happens, and happens soon, such heart breaking emotional outbursts will keep on pouring from the impoverished Palestinians and Jewish mothers not only from this part of the world but from every part of the world wherever inhabited by both Palestinians and Jews.
Regards
BNA

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Dear Dr Anand, Paritosh and Rajiv,

Can you request Vinodji to do a piece on the plight of the mothers of Indian Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus and Christians citizens who are murdered and butchered by the jehadis trained by the mafia organization called…

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Dear Dr Anand, Paritosh and Rajiv,

Can you request Vinodji to do a piece on the plight of the mothers of Indian Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus and Christians citizens who are murdered and butchered by the jehadis trained by the mafia organization called… Pakistan

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The sentiments expressed are nice and the words chosen make them a good speech on a Women’s day in an European Parliament. Nothing more. As Nurid Pelet-Elhanan suggested, it would’ve been interesting if some Palestenian women, Chechyan or Iraqi woman were also invited to make a speech. However, I wonder we’d have heard the same argument from them: the non-Islamic world is bad and it is plotting against the Islamic world. No introspection from the other side.

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Azhar,
No, I cannot hear any shouts for referendum in “Azad, Kashmir.”, Because, unfortunately it is neither Azad or KashmirThe lingua franca of POK has become Punjabi. This is due to the state policy of encouraging Punjabi settlers in POK.
The targeted killings of Punjabi settlers in Baluchistan is because the Baluch fear a repeat of this in their province. The graffiti outside Quetta railway station reads “Bhaag Punjabi Bhaag..”
I am not for suppression of Kashmiris. However, the people who believe that the state could be brought down by force, ethnic cleansing , whether by stones, guns, or bombs cannot be allowed to prevail.

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Well we can all go back, in this day age all those example you gave is not possible. If they do become possible, like the European Jews in Israel then be ready to face the music and don’t complain and use double standards.

A thief will always look over his shoulders,

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Azar,
You say, “Europeans after slaughtering Jews go displace the Palestinians.” You say this to make the Jewish claim to Palestine as fairly recent. Can you then expalin to me why towns and villages in Palestinre have Hebrew names? Why is the temple mount in Jerusalem? Why are more and more Hebrew artifacts turning up in Palestine?
After the collapse of the Turkish empire after WWI, the Balfour declaration of 2 November 1917 decided to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Christian Armenia<Muslims, Syria, Jordan, Iraqamongst others were promised nation state status Many people don't know there are more non-European Jews than European Jews. The Sephardic or Oriental Jews of the former Turkish empire were the first to sieze the moment.Thjey started buying lands in Palestine. However, it is true that the process of Jewish immigration took a filip after the Nazi atrocities. If Israel is illegitimate what about the other states in the wake of Ottoman collapse? Did you know the Arabs never called themselves Palestinians.? The" Palestinian" is a later political construct. Mark Twain travelled to this region in the late 1800s. Please read his account as a neutral person unless you think Huckleberry Finn was a crypto Jew.
Peace

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There is “D” & company which means the Dawood Ibrahim Mafia.

And….

There is ” P” & Company which means the mafia state called Pakistan

Folks, let it be known that from now on Pakistan should be recognized as a Mafia organization with headquarters in Islamabad and Jannat !! This will give us more reason to be happy that we have been seperated at Birth. This will also expalin to evrybody why Pakistan is what it is….

Shriman Azhar, as a member of of the “P” mafia it is your duty to change the morality of Pakistan. Instead out trying to find fault with India out of jealousy of our progress you should go back home and try to make your Mafia country somewhat normal….

PS : Even the IMF has specifically said last week that Pakistan is not a “normal” country. Of course it almost says that it is just a mafia organization….

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One should operate based on today’s geopolitical reality, and not based on who said what 63 years ago.

It will be stupid for India to honor Nehru’s commitment 63 years ago. He was a dreamer, unrooted in people and realities. China was not in the mix at that time.

Power should be exercised for the right purpose. Collateral damage will happen, they will put children in the front. Pak ISI and army ahs been sending terrorists since late eighties when Mrs Bhutto was in power.

Time to settle Kasmir once and for all. Pakistanis scratch and scratch . It is not only a maffia country, it is a cockroach country. In fact it is not even a country, just cockroach,

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Dear Azhar, Sal and other Pakistani brothers,

Today your “brave ” jehadis have killed 75 people in the Mohamnd Agency.

Do you seriously think that these suicde bombers have achieved jannat??

If you do, you should seriously get your head examined. By the way your Taliban has proudly taken credit for this “fantastic” achievement.

Inspite of being the most unstablke, terrorist producing country, you guys keepm shouting “India, India,India….”

Maybe you should learn secularism and democracy and freedom from us. And give up all the mafia habits of the Pakistani Mafia style country…

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I have decided to stop following this blog. It is full of third rate language. Good-bye!

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Dear Sharma ji,
Kudos for devoting your space to such a beautiful speech- courageous but soaked in the spirit of humanity. I am even more delighted to learn that this came to you through Badri sahib, who is greatly revered in the progressive circle of the Institute. As for the context of the speech, it can hardly be debated that its not only religious intolerence but imperialist ambition which threatens global peace. I had the oppurtunity to treat some Palestinian children out of the conflict Most of them were helped by organisations which were headed by Jews from the US. It was surprising to see the committment of some of these men and women! In fact I won’t be wrong in concluding that with global conflcts has come global brotherhood. No wonder bereaving mothers have the same tears even if they are from Afghanistan or Britain.
Truly,
Dr.Shah Alam Khan
AIIMS, New Delhi
http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

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124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,441 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)

1,072 Israelis and at least 6,348 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)

8,864 Israelis and 39,019 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information.) Unfortunately, our sources have not updated these statistics in quite some time. We are working to find more up-to-date sources.

During Fiscal Year 2009, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians. (View Sources & More Information

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (View Sources & More Information)

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 7,383 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (View Sources & More Information)

Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (View Sources & More Information)

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Azhar,

The statistics you quote are relevant because we in India do have sympathy for the Palestinians.

But ….

Also remeber that your country, Pakistan, too is guilty of killing innocents all over the world, including Pakistan.

You proudly tom tom the fact that your evil ISI will kill Indians. Funny. Because the murders your ISI and Taliban terrorists as well as the fanatics do in a month probably equal the deaths in Isreal in ten years.

For example, in Pakistan alone your terroristve killed about 5000 people in the past six months; In India they killed five hundred in the past six months in Kashmir alone, leaving aside the assorted terror atttacks in Mumbai on 26/11.

Don’t be proud of these terrorists, just becasuse they are Pakistani…

Dont be proud that they kill Shias, Baluchis, Sikhs and Hindus….

Because behind all those killed are the tears of Christian, jew, Ahemadiya, Shia and Hindu mothers….

So Azhar, remember your Mafia like country also takes aid from USA, so why blame Isreal.

If you have the guts, tell your rulers to return back the aid which your PM asks with a begging bowl from the IMF.

Return back all the 7.5 billion dollar aid you get from the USA..

Cry for all the children your countrymen kill in the name of Islam and spreading evil ideologies.

Then only will a new sun shine on Pakistan….

Cheers and regards

your pal

Vijay

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Futile to reason with those ‘fake-degree’ Pakistanis ruled by criminal ISI-Army and wedded to a intolerant state ideology , perpetuated by the Jinnah-Mullah combo.

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International law is clear: Israeli settlements are illegal
A recent Times Op-Ed article got it wrong: The Fourth Geneva convention explicitly prohibits colonizing occupied territories.

Iain Scobbie, the Sir Joseph Hotung Research Professor in Law at the University of London, is coauthor of “The Israel-Palestine Conflict in International Law: Territorial Issues,” which is available for downloading here.

Iain Scobbie
Los Angeles Times
December 16, 2009

Eric Rozenman’s Dec. 11 Op-Ed article, “Israeli settlements are more than legitimate,” is legal nonsense that disregards history. He is correct in his observation that Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine permitted “close settlement by Jews on the land, including state lands and waste lands not required for public purposes,” but the conclusions he then draws are flatly wrong.

Rozenman fails to acknowledge that since its inception, Israel has never claimed legal title to all of the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine. On the contrary, it has repeatedly denied such a claim in official statements and acts. On May 22, 1948, soon after Israel’s declaration of independence, the country’s representative to the U.N. Security Council stated that its territory was “the area outlined in the map appended to the resolution of 29 November 1947, as constituting the area assigned to the Jewish state” — namely that area accorded to the nascent Israel by the U.N. Partition Plan contained in General Assembly Resolution 181. This did not include the West Bank. The same view was consistently expressed by Israeli courts. In 1950, Israel’s Supreme Court ruled, “The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate.” Israel thus refused to be seen as the successor state to the Palestinian mandate. Accordingly, it refused to accede to treaties that bound the mandate and refused to pay the public debt that Palestine owed to Britain. How then can there be a right of Israeli settlement in the West Bank, territory to which Israel itself has never made legal claim?

Rozenman argues that Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which prohibits the transfer of parts of a state’s population into territory it occupies, does not apply to nonforcible population transfers. On the contrary, as the authoritative commentary of this convention prepared by the International Committee of the Red Cross states, this prohibition was adopted precisely to prohibit the colonization of occupied territories. It does not distinguish between forcible and nonforcible population transfers. Article 49 prohibits any and all population transfers from the occupying power to occupied territory. In 2004, the International Court of Justice unanimously found that Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory breached Article 49.

As a longtime observer of the International Court, I can state without fear of contradiction that it is easier to get cats to dance in a parade in costume than to obtain a unanimous ruling from the International Court.

Israel knew soon after the Six-Day War in 1967 that settlements in the occupied territory were illegal. As Gershom Gorenberg recounts in his book, “The Accidental Empire: Israel and the Birth of Settlements,” Theodor Meron, then legal advisor to Israel’s ministry of foreign affairs and a distinguished international lawyer specializing in the law of armed conflict and human rights, advised the Israeli government in September 1967 that settlements in the newly occupied territory were prohibited by Article 49. (Click here for a facsimile of Meron’s opinion in Hebrew at Gorenberg’s website; an English translation is available here.)

The fundamental point about settlements, then, is not that they obstruct diplomacy — which they do — but rather that they are illegal. Occupied territory is not under the sovereignty of the occupant. It cannot treat the territory it occupies as it sees fit. An occupant’s powers are circumscribed by international law, which unequivocally prohibits the settlement of part of its population, whether forcible or voluntary, in that territory. While this prohibition arises from Article 49, Article 1 requires parties not merely to respect the terms of the convention in their own conduct but also to ensure that others do. All states are party to the Geneva Conventions, therefore all states have the duty to ensure that Israel’s illegal policy of creating settlements in occupied Palestinian territory ceases without further delay.

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Azhar,
Can you tell me under what international law was Baluchistan annexed by Pakistan? Is this a taboo subject? If it is I won’t bring it up. You use a lot of quotes from Western liberals. These Western liberals have been confused into being what Lenin called “useful idiots.” This has happened before in Iran where the left liberals supported Islamists led by Khomeini. The liberals thought they could control the Islamist;, and the main objective was to get rid of the shah. As soon as the shah left the Islamists turned on the liberals, and killed most of them. The same fate awaited liberal Christian Lebanese. The same fate will await the liberals who are aimlessly chanting Kumbaya in Gaza now.
There is now a deep split in the Palestinian polity. The modern secular fatah movement has been forced to cede power to Hamas in Gaza. The West Bank under the PLO is fairly stable. The problem really is Gaza. Now let’s see what this organization Hamas is. Hamas was founded by Sheikh Hasson Yousef, a radical Islamist. This strain of radical thought takes a literal reading of the holy Koran. Their thought process is more intune with Muslim brotherhood, Taliban, etc. A lot of these Western liberals think they are dealing with a benign secular Paletinian B team. Azhar just called Hamas “deadly Hamas,” but doesn’t explain what deadly means.
Some of the “peace activists” aboard the “peace flotilla” are heard chanting “Khaybar Khaybar.” Azhar, can you tell us non-Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Christians and other assorted infidels the import of those chants. As far as you shedding crocodile tears for Kashmiris your army did not dash into the Valley and “liberate Kashmiris.” They made a beeline for the Indus head water works.
Oye, Azhzr, ek gal to das, kadi tera naa noorie natt ya maulla jatt te nahin.
Peace

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————————————————————-
Is it because of your fake degrees ?
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@Azhar

Is it your fake degee , because of which you cannot differentiate between individual criminal acts in any country from state sponsorship of terrorists by Pakistan state over last 2 decades ?

Is it because of your fake degrees that you cannnot differentiate between riots ( that too instigated by criminal elements who set fire to a train and hundreds of Hindus and 200 policemen died in Gujrat riots ) and state sponsored elimination of minorities in Pakistan over past 6 decades , resulting in total religious cleansing ?

Is it because of your fake degrees that you cannot differentiate between a country wedded to democracy , secularism and pluralism with a country wedded to a criminal ideology of bigotry and violence , preached by its founding father and carried forward by Pak ISI/army and fake degree holders ?

I guess so.

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Rajiv
Mosab Hassan Yousef son of the founder of Hamas has fled Gaza he is in USA.He has renounced Islam.He has written a book”Son of Hamas”I have ordered my copy.

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@ Vinod Sharma

its very unusual to hear how my mind is “polluted” from some one who is himself having a garbage bin mentality. why dont you see foe yourself the trash can that your own liberal mind is. always some or the other kind of garbage is coming out. Mr Azhar Hussain has repeatedly used abusive language against India and other Indian fellow bloggers , but i never saw you protesting against that.

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@vinod sharma

Our madcap Pal from Pakistan, Azhar Hussain has repeatedly said “we take pride in killing indians.” and ” our ISI will take care of you sooner or later.”

How is that you have not commented about this. Or do you feel that Azhar Hussain pyscho is a revered guest from Pakistan and in the interest of promoting peace we should allow Pakistanis to continue with terror attacks on India.

I am sure you will not have the guts and moral courage to say anything about the vile fanatic views which some Pakistanis spout from both their ends….

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Dear Azhar Hussain pyscho,

I have fixed appointments for you with various psychiatrists in India and in Gauntamo bay. Can you tell us when you would like to be present?

We want to check both your ends from which you spout out lies, deceit and fanaticism.

When you guys beg the USA for aid that is for fighting terror. When Isreal gets aid, you fume.

When you guys kill, maim, murder and torture in the name of religion, that is gr8. When somebody kills the terrorsits you produce on daily basis you start fuming….

Yes, we want to examine your mind and write a thesis on why Pakistanis keep becoming terrorists. WHy the Pakis kill Shias, Baluchis, Kashmiris, Hindus, Jews, Ahmedayias, Sikhs and Christians….

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Pakistan has one of the newspaper columnists in the world. And that is NAdeem Paracha.

I am producing his article in the Dawn and the bloggers out here will know why Azhar Hussain and Sal cannot ever change;

THIS IS WHAT PARACHA WRITES…..
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Whenever there are rumours of a military coup, pray they are true. Explain that democracy and secularism are deeply flawed and have destroyed the world. Totalitarian monarchies with entrenched security and bureaucracies are much better and in line with our Arab origins. Please do not compare us to Indians. We have nothing in common with them (except our DNA, culture, cuisine, language, music and geography). Here’s a brief knee-jerk guide to fend off ‘lies’ about Pakistani society becoming intolerant, delusional and paranoid. It was prepared and inspired by hours of TV-watching and passionate middle-class drawing-room navel gazing.

* In case of a suicide attack in a mosque or a shrine (in Punjab), just utter the following two words: “Blackwater and America.” In case of a similar suicide attack in Karachi, just say: “MQM!”

* When fanatics of a majority Muslim sect attack a minority Muslim sect, exhibit concern and anger. Then go out and burn an Israeli flag.

* When fanatics attack people of other minorities (Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis, etc.), don’t say anything. Start discussing the weather instead. “I say, fellow Muslim brother, very hot these days. Yes, fellow Muslim sister, very hot indeed. Care for some halal nimbu-paani?”

* Bellow ‘Alhamdulillah’ if a fellow Muslim echoes your own point of view on faith. But yell ‘blasphemy’ if a fellow Muslim dares to exhibit a different point of view. Shout him down and out, calling him ‘misguided,’ or worse, an ‘infidel.’ Then call this discourse ‘a healthy debate on religion.’

* When a suicide attack takes place in Punjab, explain it as a conspiracy by forces who want a military operation against militants in southern Punjab. Offer ‘dialogue’ and ‘talks’ as a solution. And the removal of Zaradri.

* Explain all economic, social and political problems being faced by Pakistan as ‘God’s wrath’. Say all this is taking place because we have stopped following our true faith. Add to this the presence of an obvious plot against Pakistan and Islam by America, Israel, India, Britain, Netherlands and Chili. Offer the banning of Facebook and Google as a solution. And the removal of Zaradri.

* Whenever there are rumours of a military coup, pray they are true. Explain that democracy and secularism are deeply flawed and have destroyed the world. Totalitarian monarchies with entrenched security and bureaucracies are much better and in line with our Arab origins. Please do not compare us to Indians. We have nothing in common with them (except our DNA, culture, cuisine, language, music and geography).

* When confronted by the sceptre of vicious sectarian organisations running wild, deny their existence because you have banned them. Say that they are nothing but figments of the imagination of liberal fascists. Say you are the real liberals; members of civil society imbued with socialist values. Declare that your ability to engage in massive socialising (through Facebook) makes you socialist in the true sense of the word; and that lately you have also dabbled in Marxism at cafes (where you blow off half a month’s average national salary on lattes and cappuccinos) whilst constructing your neo- Marxism around the tacit acceptance of the Taliban’s superior Arab cultural identity. Proudly announce, “We salute Abul Ala Marx, Lenin Bin Laden, and Mulla Mao!”

* These are difficult times for civil society. While the tyrannical coalition government of PPP, ANP and MQM is destroying the country with a so-called ‘progressive agenda’ (another Zionist conspiracy) that involves legislation about women’s rights and the enfranchisement and autonomy of minority provinces, our brave lower adjudicators are fighting a Herculean battle to free the champions of our true Arab identity: Hafiz Saeed, Maulana Aziz and Masood Azhar.

* Always remember, while our existential adversary India is investing billions of dollars in Afghanistan’s infrastructure and municipal training, we are using our billions (that we don’t have) to create the ultimate strategic depth in Afghanistan: i.e. fattening macho Islamist bravados who will eventually recreate the Islamic caliphate that made Afghanistan the model of peace and prosperity from 1996 to 2001.

* Whenever there is a terrorist attack in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, blame it on ANP’s nationalism. Insist that the Taliban are the real expression of nationalism. They have done their best to cleanse the province from pagan influence. The Taliban are a legitimate resistance movement against the occupation of the United Emirates of Pakhtunkhwa by ANP. The only genuine Pathans are Imran Khan and Hamid Gul. Offer the enforcement of Sharia there as a solution. And the removal of Zaradri.

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Not just Nadeem Paracha of Dawn. There are a few other Pakistani columnists , ( most of them live abroad for security reasons, but write in Dawn ) , have correctly concluded that Pakistan as constituited today, is a criminal entity.

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Rajiv you lie all the time….Nadeem Paracha of Dawn lives in Pakistan just like thosands of other writers. He does not have to live outside to report or discuss such issues. Go watch private channels who and are discussing all these burning issues nobody can stop them.

It is your government which has placed a gag order on reports from Kashmir…You guys are scared to death people might report the truth…just like terrorist entity called Israel.

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Top 10 Signs You Are a Hindu Fanatic

10. You believe anyone who wears even so much as a saffron underwear is a human incarnation of ’Jagat Brahman‘ (God) and address them as “baba”, “swami”, “shri shri” finding the servile pleasure of touching their feet ‘intoxicating’.

9. You defend militantly everything the saffron-clad swamis have to preach, no matter how illogical and ridiculous, and believe that he/she will solve all your problems only if you continue singing bhajans (devotional songs).

8. You eject out of your chair at the slightest noise of someone uttering the word ‘Hinduism’ accusing the person of ignorance and launching into a lengthy diatribe on why the fool needs to address Hinduism as ‘Sanatana Dharma’.

7. You think all Muslims are “terrorists” and call any person who does not support the ‘Hindutva’ cause as an anti-Hindu, anti-India, pseudo-secular communist.

6. You accuse Muslims of being intolerant and yet become endlessly peeved at the distorted displays of hindu symbols or the use of hindu deities in works of art or movies by non-hindus and take boundless pride in protesting against such distortions or threatening them with dire consequences.

5. You spend hundreds of idle hours trying to find the ‘real’ meaning of different hindu symbols and slokas and take immense pride whenever the western media mentions something remotely Hindu – convinced that it is an undeniable evidence supporting the ‘greatness’ of “Hindu civilization”

4. You accuse ‘goras’(whites, but typically means Christians) of being racist when they ridicule Hindus but find no problems cracking Chinese jokes, Sardar jokes or even supporting the caste system by deciding not to marry outside your caste.

3. You find fairy tales of other religions amusing and entertaining but consider the epic fairy tales of Ramayana and Mahabharata as ‘itihaas’ (history).

2. You have no idea what a ‘testable hypothesis’ is but proudly claim that the Vedas are scientific works, distorting slokas and quoting personal opinion of scientists to make your case.

1. You have never read the entire Bhagavad Gita or other hindu religious texts but feel you are competent enough to talk about them loudly just because you read a few Amar Chitra Katha comics when you were a kid.

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Azhar ( suspect degree ) is a prime example of why Pakistan is a criminal entity.

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@Raju Kurian,

You are trying to teach history to those , who hero worship the invaders who pillage and murdered there own ancestors.

Only a derelict and criminal nation, would name its missiles after invaders ( Ghori, Ghazni ) , who pillaged and murdered all accross present day Pakistan.

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Ghori and Ghaznavi are our heros, and you lost the right to dictate in 1947, understand that Rajiv.

I know your obsession with Pakistan, Now let us talk about the topic at hand, shall we.

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Jews for Justice has made this excellent resource available to people around the world. We have converted their booklet to a more easily copied format. Download it!

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As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational “terrorists” who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes — on both sides — inevitably follow from this original injustice.

Contents:
Introduction
Early History of the Region
The British Mandate Period: 1920-1948
The UN Partition of Palestine
Statehood and Expulsion – 1948
The 1967 War and Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
[1973 War (Known in Israel as the Yom Kippur War) - Addendum by If Americans Knew]
The History of Terrorism in the Region
Jewish Criticism of Zionism
Zionism and the Holocaust
General Considerations
Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel
Intifada 2000 And The “Peace Process”
Views Of The Future
Conclusion I For Jewish Readers
Conclusion II

This paper outlines the history of Palestine to show how this process occurred and what a moral solution to the region’s problems should consist of. If you care about the people of the Middle East, Jewish and Arab, you owe it to yourself to read this account of the other side of the historical record.

Introduction
The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

[Reply]

Vinoo dear,,, Oh Vinod Sharma…

Are these Pychos like Azhar you wanted us to have friendship with… !!!

Ha ha ha ha aha h

What a madcap !!

Vinod, I am sure you will blAME BJP and Narendra Modi for the madness in Azhar’s mind !!! :)

PS: Azhar hussain you have not turened up at the psychiatrists office in Gauntamano bay or India ??

[Reply]

Discuss the topic at hand instead of C–p from your mouth. It seems you people have stopped looking in the mirror, have you gotten that ugly that you have to point out others faults.

What a moron!

You really want Palestinians to sit quite and suffer….Long live Palestine and shame on the gutless people who the support their occupier.

A Synopsis of the Current Situation in Israel/Palestine
Fortunately, the American media cover many events in Israel with great detail and thoroughness. Therefore, we are not repeating that coverage here. Instead, we are attempting to fill in the many important news items – most of them about incidents in the Palestinian territories – that are not available in the U.S. media.

For more thorough daily coverage of the region, view “The Missing Headlines,” and our recommended sources of daily news.

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip live in an odd and oppressive limbo. They have no nation, no citizenship, and no ultimate power over their own lives.

Since 1967, when Israel conquered these areas (the final 22 percent of mandatory Palestine), Palestinians have been living under Israeli military occupation. While in some parts Israel has allowed a Palestinian “autonomous” entity to take on such municipal functions as education, health care, infrastructure and policing, Israel retains overall power.

According to international law, an occupying force is responsible for the protection of the civilian population living under its control. Israel, however, ignores this requirement, routinely committing violations of the Geneva Conventions, a set of principles instituted after World War II to ensure that civilians would “never again” suffer as they had under Nazi occupation. Israel is one of the leading violators of these conventions today.

Israeli forces regularly confiscate private land; imprison individuals without process – including children – and physically abuse them under incarceration; demolish family homes; bulldoze orchards and crops; place entire towns under curfew; destroy shops and businesses; shoot, maim, and kill civilians – and Palestinians are without power to stop any of it.

When a child is arrested, for example – often by a group of armed soldiers in the middle of the night – parents can do nothing. Knowing that their son is most likely being beaten by soldiers on the way to the station, stripped and humiliated in prison, quite likely physically abused in multiple additional ways, and destined to be held – perhaps in isolation – for days, week, or months (all before a trial has even taken place), parents are without the ability to protect their child. Quite often, in fact, they cannot even visit him.

Finally, when the military trial under which their son is to be sentenced – often to years (sometimes decades) in prison – all they can do is hire a lawyer whose efforts, at best, will reduce the ultimate sentence by a few months. Rarely, if ever, can even the most skilled lawyer do more than afford the child a friendly face in court and be an outside witness to the injustice of the proceedings. Meanwhile, the presence of such a lawyer provides Israel cover for its “judicial system.”

Perhaps most significant – and rarely understood by people in the outside world – is the fact that Palestinians live, basically, in a prison in which Israel holds the keys.

They cannot leave Gaza or the West Bank unless Israeli guards allow them to. If they have been allowed out, they cannot return to their homes and families unless Israeli guards permit it.

Frequently, in both cases, Israel refuses such permission.

Academics invited to attend conferences abroad, high school students given US State Department scholarships to study in the United States, mothers wishing to visit daughters abroad, American citizens returning to their families, humanitarians bringing wheelchairs – the list goes on almost without limit – have all been denied permission by Israel to leave or enter their own land.

The “Intifada”
Living under such hardship and humiliation, in the year 2000 the Palestinian population began an uprising against Israeli rule called the “Intifada.” This term – rarely translated in the American media – is simply the Arabic word for uprising or rebellion – literally, it means “shaking off.” The American Revolutionary War, for example, would be called the American intifada against Britain.

This is the second such uprising. The first began in 1986 and ended in 1993 when the peace negotiations offered hopes of justice. (Sadly, in the following years these hopes were crushed after Israel, rather than withdrawing from the West Bank and Gaza, as promised, actually doubled its expansion in these areas.)

During this first uprising, which consisted largely of Palestinians throwing stones at Israeli troops (very few Palestinians had weapons), Palestinians were killed at a rate approximately 7-10 times that of Israelis.

One of the ways Israeli forces attempted to put down this rebellion was through the “break the bones” policy, implemented by Yitzhak Rabin, in which people who had been throwing stones – often youths – were held down and their arms broken. On the first day of this policy alone, one hospital in Gaza treated 200 People for fractures.1

Today’s uprising – termed the “Second Intifada” – was sparked when an Israeli general, Ariel Sharon, known for his slaughter of Palestinian civilians throughout his career, visited a Jerusalem holy site, accompanied by over a thousand armed Israeli soldiers. When some Palestinian youths threw stones, Israeli soldiers responded with live gunfire, killing 5 the first day, and 10 the second.

This uprising has now continued for over five years, as Israel periodically mounts massive invasions into Palestinian communities, using tanks, helicopter gunships, and F-16 fighter jets. Palestinian fighters resisting these forces possess rifles and homemade mortars and rockets. A minute fraction strap explosives onto their own bodies and attempt to deliver their bombs in person; often they kill only themselves.

While the large majority of Palestinians oppose suicide bombings, many feel that armed resistance has become necessary – much as Americans supported war after the attack at Pearl Harbor. Nevertheless, only a small portion take an active part in the resistance, despite the fact that virtually all support its aim: to create a nation free from foreign oppression.

Most Palestinians attempt – with greater or lesser success – to go on with their lives, raise their children, attend school, go to work, celebrate festivals, organize weddings, raise their crops, provide for their families – all the things that preoccupy people around the world.

As Israel constructs a wall around them, however, prevents them at checkpoints from traveling from town to town, destroys their crops, prevents children from traveling to schools and the sick and injured from getting to the hospitals, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live even an approximation of a normal life.

Most Palestinians feel that the Israeli government’s intention is to drive them off the land, and there is a great deal of evidence that this is the goal of many Israeli leaders.

At the same time, however, there is a small but determined minority of Israelis, joined by citizens from throughout the world, who are coming to the Palestinian Territories to oppose Israeli occupation. These “internationals,” as they are often called, take part in peaceful marches, attempt to help Palestinian farmers harvest their crops despite Israeli military closures, live in refugee camps in the hope that their presence will prevent Israeli invasions and shelling, and walk children to school.

They are sometimes beaten, shot, and killed.

Some Israeli soldiers are refusing to serve in the West Bank or Gaza, stating: “We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.”

Meanwhile, the semblance of Palestinian autonomy continues. Elections held in January, 2005, resulted in new Palestinian leadership that will govern under occupation and will attempt to negotiate eventual Palestinian liberation. Yet even this election demonstrated Israel’s power, as various Palestinian candidates were arrested, detained, and sometimes beaten by Israeli forces. This aspect, however, like so much else, was rarely reported by the American media.

End Notes
1.“Under orders from Defence Minister Yitzhak Rabin, ‘Soldiers armed with cudgels beat up those they could lay their hands on regardless of whether they were demonstrators, or not, breaking into homes by day and night, dragging men and women, young and old, from their beds to beat them. At Gaza’s Shifa Hospital 200 people were treated during the first five days of the new policy, most of them suffering from broken elbows and knees. Three had fractured skulls.’” (PALESTINE AND ISRAEL: THE UPRISING AND BEYOND, David McDowall, University of California Press, 1989, p. 7.)

[Reply]

@ Azhar

if you speak of Israeli attacks on Paleastinians , please also consider the blunder these Palestinians created for the Israelis. so many Israelis have been massacred in Palestinian bombings , but the Muslim world never bothered about that.

[Reply]

Paritosh it is your bias that you not looking at facts. Scorll up and you will see the death and destruction. You people are so bised that you want 1 billion Muslims to say sorry for a your death, but yet you non-Muslims were celebrating when Bush and his bunch of liars were bombing Iraq. Paritosh what would you do, God forbit if this ever happened in your hometown, now be honest.

Living with the memories of Srebrenica, 15 years on
Page last updated at 05:29 GMT, Sunday, 11 July 2010 06:29 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version By Mark Lowen

BBC News, Srebrenica

Fresh graves are still being dug 15 years after Europe’s worst act of mass murder since World War II As he roars around the streets of Srebrenica in his three-tonne, self-built, bright red Hummer, Rob Zomer does not exactly blend in.

But then catch wind of his story and it is clear this Dutchman is not one to follow convention.

A former soldier, he served with the UN force in Srebrenica during the Bosnian war, in which 100,000 people died in fighting between the country’s ethnic Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims).

Continue reading the main story When you come here and local people say ‘thank you that you tried to protect my family in ‘95′, all the bad feelings are gone
Rob Zomer

Former UN peacekeeper
In the summer of 1995, at the end of his tour, the town bore witness to Europe’s worst act of mass murder since World War II.

Srebrenica had been declared a UN safe zone, to which thousands of Bosniaks had fled during the conflict.

But the Bosnian Serb army easily overran the lightly-armed Dutch force there.

Bosniak women were boarded onto buses, and taken to safety.

Men and boys were either led off to be killed, or shot as they tried to flee through the forest. The UN says more than 7,000 people were murdered in five days.

After witnessing the barbarity of that time, it might seem inconceivable that anyone would want to return to this still unhappy place.

But 15 years on, Mr Zomer is moving back to Srebrenica with his family.

‘No stress’

He is building a house in the mountains around the area where the killings took place, which the Dutch soldiers were widely blamed for failing to prevent.

For those who have work, there is a sense it can foster reconciliation “I have history here – bad or good,” Mr Zomer tells me as we walk through the lush meadow around his house.

“It’s a part of me. But that’s not why I came.

“I chose Srebrenica because I wanted forests, mountains and no stress.”

He tells me he is often asked if guilt motivated his return.

“Absolutely not,” he says.

“We did more than we could for the people here.”

But his country has been consumed with national guilt ever since the massacre.

Continue reading the main story No Serbs contest that a crime happened in Srebrenica but they’re insulted when the numbers are manipulated
Mladen Grujicic

Timeline: Siege of Srebrenica
The Netherlands has struggled to accept what happened under the watch of its men, blamed for their passive approach.

An independent report in 2002 criticised both the Netherlands and the UN, prompting the resignation of the entire Dutch government.

Mr Zomer recalls how he was affected by post-traumatic stress, but says that returning is a way to confront the past.

“When you come here and local people say ‘thank you that you tried to protect my family in ‘95′, all the bad feelings are gone,” he says.

Reconciliation

Across Srebrenica, there are many stories of those trying to move on in their different ways.

Continue reading the main story At the beginning it felt uncomfortable, but now we’re all friends
Ivica Simic
But chronic unemployment keeps the local population stuck in the past, living among buildings still riddled with bullet holes.

For those lucky enough to find work, there is a sense that employment can foster reconciliation.

On the outskirts of town, vast machines are at work in the Cimos car parts factory.

Of the 100 workers, 77 are Bosniaks, and the rest Bosnian Serbs.

The factory made no profit last year, but aims simply to give work to locals.

Ivica Simic, an ethnic Serb employee, takes time away from the soldering iron to tell me about the friendly atmosphere here.

Continue reading the main story They’re not ashamed of it – and they should be
Almedina Jasarevic
“At the beginning it felt uncomfortable,” he says. “But now we’re all friends and we play football together.”

Almedina Jasarevic, a 23-year-old Bosniak worker, says she has no problems with the Serbs in the factory.

“They’re here to make money, just like me. We all get along,” she assures me.

But, as our conversation turns to her father and brother who were killed in the massacre, she drops her guard and the tears come.

“How can you forgive when you only remember your family through photographs?” she asks.

“The Serbs talk and laugh with you as though nothing happened. They know what they did.

“They’re not ashamed of it – and they should be.”

‘The truth’

But that is rejected by many Serbs here, who say they have been unjustly vilified.

Mladen Grujicic works for a local association helping the families of Serb victims of the war, who he says have been forgotten.

He believes Srebrenica cannot move on until what he calls “the truth” is established.

“The Serb people are portrayed in the media as committing genocide, but it isn’t so,” he tells me.

“No Serbs contest that a crime happened in Srebrenica, but they’re insulted when the numbers are manipulated. I don’t agree that 7,000 or 8,000 people were killed, because the Muslims themselves don’t agree,” he says.

I ask what he makes of the findings of organisations that identify the victims through DNA analysis.

“Nobody trusts those foreign commissions,” he says.

“Besides, everyone focuses on July 1995 but not the years before that. The first victim in Srebrenica was a Serb.”

The facts of Bosnia’s devastating war are still disputed, because each side has its own truth.

But the result is continued segregation and a population trapped by painful memories.

At the biggest cemetery near Srebrenica, diggers prepare the ground for another 700 victims discovered in mass graves, who will be reburied on Sunday.

With so many reminders – and such raw wounds – it is hard to escape the dark clouds of 1995 that still choke this little Bosnian town.

[Reply]

Azhar,
Islamists have murdered millions of Hindus over time. Read Will Durant. Hindutva was coined in ear;ly 1900s by Vir Savarkar, who was greatly influenced by Garibaldi and Mazzini, not by Hitler anf fascism as you claim. He translated Mazzini and the history of Sikhs into Marathi. He also coined the war of 1857 as “The first war of independence.” This coinage I see has now been highjacked by his detractors. Gandhi and Nehru refused to help the British war effort in WWII. They did not help in recruitment for troops. Savarkar, however, urged Hindus to join the army and fight against the greater evil of Naziism and fascism.
Regarding the new Ram Temple/ Babri masjid there were always Hindus wailing and Muslims boasting of the demolition of the Ram Temple by Babar. There is a ton of evidence of a Hindu temple on the spot by Muslim sources. Why are you surprised? Isn’t there a pattern to this? Isn’t the Umayad Mosque or the Grand Mosque of Damascus built on the basilica dedicated to John the Baptist? Are the Greeks communal to demand Hagia Sophia back as a church? Is the Al Aqsa Mosque not built over the holy Jewish Temple Mount?
“Rama’s birth place is marked by a mosque erected by Mughal emperor Babar in 1528 on the site of an earlier temple” (Encyclopedia Brittanica). In India a “secularist just means a comination of Marxists, de-nationalised Macaulayites and hard core Islamists like yourself.You can tell your “good Taliban ” friends that they can rent some Indian” intellectuals,” and “eminent historians” to shreik loudly that the Bamiyan Buddhas never existed. It is false history and a conspiracy to malign Muslims. Secular states should have equality before law. Unlike India, that has different civil codes for different religions, you have really perverted this word. Of course Aurangzeb was a saint to jihadists like you. I am not fooled by your use of leftist liberal jargon.
And the Shiv Sena is an RSS front ! I must inform the Thackeray clan. They think they are the owners not mere franchisees. 11th, August is Baluchistan Independence Day. However 14th , August will be mourned by the Baluch people as a black day ion their history.
As always,
Peace

[Reply]

Azhar,
10. Saffron underwear! Come on yaar, where is your sense of style? Or are you a part – time cross dresser?
9. Bad voice , never sing.
8. Always comfortably seated.
7. No, though most of the terrorists tell us they are Muslims.
6. Peeved is o.k. Intolerance is not.
5.As seen from your comments, you seem to rely more on Western media.
4. The so-sensitive and eternally offended Azhar, please explain to kaffirs about Sayed’s sheiks ashrafs, and ajlafs,
3. Now you reveal your true genius. I believe you can finally bring peace to Palestine. Pray tell us what the fairy tales in the Koran are. This could be your ground breaking moment.
2. Who cares?
1. I never knew the full Bhagvad Gita came out in an Amar Chitra Katha comic. How did I miss out on this? I want my copy now.
Peace

[Reply]

Sal,
The only options available to the rulers was India, Pakistanb or independence. The Khan of Kalat declared inmdependence. If referendum was an option, West Punjab would be in India as the Unionist party lead by Siokander Hyatt Khan and supported by Hindu and Muslim choudharies who were largely agriculturists did not support partition. They worried more about the disruption of water system in Punjab that would inevitably effect their lands. In hindsight, they were right. as currently the ground water levels of East and West Punjab are getting worse by the day.
The Indian army. action in Hyderabad was not against the Nizam’s army, but against religious fanatics called Razakars. The Nizam was not a fool. He knew he copuld not pit his forces againsty the Indian army. In the end he ceded to the Indian Constitution. Similarly, Hari Singh , Maharajah of Kashmir, signed the instrument of assession with India. What jarjirga, no matter how “grand” is not lega;lly acceptable. A jarjirga is more Pashtu in culture than Baloch. The Baloch are frustrated because instead of having dialogue with them, you are simply killing their leaders, that too, with air force. If there can bea Baloch solution even within Pakistan, it’s fine as long as the Baloch are happy. If the government of Oman can recruit Baloch soldiers why not your Punjabi army? You have been denying them all opportunities in Gwaddar which was only incorporated into Pakistan in 1958. Most Pakistanis don’t know Balochistan stretches right to the borders of Karachi. At least we should accept there is a problem, and try to solve it.
Sal, Kahi tum zaid Hamid ko prophet to nahin mante ?

[Reply]

———————————————
Big Question and an answer
———————————————-

I don’t see criminal ,Palestine terrorists all over the world attacking various countries mouthing Islamic mumbo-jumbo.
I dont see Kashmiri terrorists from Indian Kashmir, all over the world, attacking countries, with a thuggish Islamic agenda .

Then why do we see Pakistani bred criminals, all over the world, commiting terrorist/criminal acts , with a country living on western alms ?

The answer to that question, holds the truth about the CRIMINAL Entity known as Pakistan.

Sal and Azhar, are products of that criminal entity ruled by PAK ISI and Army.

[Reply]

—————————————————————————————————————————–
Pak columnist, Istiaq Ahmed, on Inclusive nationalism of India and
exclusionary nationalism of Israel, Pakistan
—————————————————————————————————————————–

Rather than hate India, we should learn from India. It has five times a greater population, far greater ethnic and linguistic variation and myriads of religious faiths and cults. It is not a democracy in the social sense but it is a sophisticated democracy in the political sense

I have presented, mainly, the exclusive model of nationalism and state-nationalism that I have argued emerged in Pakistan, notwithstanding the very bold attempt of Jinnah to supplant it with inclusive nationalism. Exclusive nationalism — whether based on race or religion or some other cultural factor — discriminates, constitutionally, people who do not qualify as members of the community because they do not share the specific cultural ties that have been chosen to define the nation, even if they live in the same territory. Israel is a case in point. Jews from anywhere in the world can come and settle in its territories but not Palestinians who may have lived there in 1948 or in 1967 or in 1973. Only Jews have a timeless law-of-return privileging them over the Palestinians.

The question arises: are states and nations fixed and frozen forever or can things change for the better? In other words, can an exclusive type of nationalism be transcended by an inclusive type of nationalism? The answer is, yes. After all, the nations of Western Europe were originally founded on membership in the State Church. Before World War II, most states in Western Europe required membership in the State Church in order to hold public office. Thus, for example, Sweden, where and my family and I are now settled, required even schoolteachers to be members of the Lutheran State Church.

When western states became members of the UN, they began removing all discriminatory laws. Thus state-nationalism, based on exclusive religious criteria, was abandoned and, instead, inclusive nationalism was adopted. Of course in doing so, the horrors and suffering of World War II played a very important part. It was realised that peace within Western Europe depended upon the establishment of secular-democratic states. Germany, the main offender in World War II, was the last to change its laws and now people of non-German descent can also become German citizens with equal rights.

We in Pakistan have not suffered a major war, but, since 1980, innocent blood has been spilled every now and then by religious and sectarian zealots. Not only do they target minorities — Hindus, Christians, Ahmedis, Shias — all of whom live in fear, but, from time to time, the Sunni sub-sects are also drawn into horrific target killings. Suicide bombing is another form of self-destruction.

The creation of Pakistan was supposed to give the Muslims of India a chance to develop and prosper because Hindus and Sikhs were ahead of them and they felt that a united India was not a level playing field. That is the point of view that attracts most of us — most recently Dr Syed Mansoor Hussain wrote a eulogy to Jinnah for giving us Pakistan. There is, of course, the other point of view as well that Pakistan was to become an ideal Islamic state. On both counts, we have failed. The Muslim middle class or intelligentsia have done well but so have the landlords who would have lost their big landholdings if India were to have remained united.

The creation of Pakistan also benefited a military apparatus that takes away a major portion of the development budget. I remember that in 1999, Rs 179 billion were allocated to defence and only Rs 5 billion to education and health. Does that make any sense? I am sure India also overspends a great deal on defence. It can also cut its huge spending, which is Pakistan-specific, if the power elites of both states act responsibly. As for Pakistan becoming an ideal Islamic state, I need not labour this point at all because we are considered the epicentre of global terrorism thanks to just such an obsession. When you talk to a Baloch, he has his own catalogue of grievances against what he describes as the Punjabi-dominated Pakistan. I suppose he would say thank you to anyone who gets rid of Punjabis from his homeland.

Rather than hate India, we should learn from India. It has five times a greater population, far greater ethnic and linguistic variation and myriads of religious faiths and cults. Although India has thus far failed to tackle the sprawling poverty that afflicts the lives of vast portions of its population — and I am convinced it has roots in the inhuman caste system — it has nevertheless evolved political institutions that confirm that, in spite of all the odds against it, India is a political democracy. It is not a democracy in the social sense but it is a sophisticated democracy in the political sense. How else would you explain that a former untouchable, Ms Mayawati, is the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh with a population equal to that of Pakistan?

There is, of course, a virulent Hindu nationalist lobby that is equally exclusive of minorities as is Muslim nationalism. It has committed many crimes against Muslims and Christians but it does not enjoy such sanction from the Indian constitution. In the case of Pakistan, the constitutional and legal systems uphold discrimination. This must go. A 96 percent Muslim majority state does not need to reinforce its overwhelming advantage over the minorities by imposing draconian laws such as the blasphemy and Hudood laws. Pakistan can become a constitutional democracy by adopting Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 speech as the basis of its nationalism. More difficult than that, is it not?

I think it was most unfortunate that Pakistan’s National Assembly declared the Ahmedis non-Muslims but, simultaneously, I do not think that different Muslim groups are under any obligation to accept each other as authentic Muslims. They can privately continue to damn each other but the state should have no partisan role in it. Till the mid-1960s, the Catholics and Protestants believed that the other group would burn in hell. This is in the nature of monotheistic religions. What the rest of the world has learnt to do is separate religion from the state, making it a private affair.

Postscript: I will be away for a few weeks and resume my column in the beginning of August. Thanks to all readers.

(Concluded)

Ishtiaq Ahmed is a Visiting Research Professor at the Institute of South Asian Studies (ISAS) and the South Asian Studies Programme at the National University of Singapore and a Professor of Political Science at Stockholm University. At ISAS, he is currently working on a book, Is Pakistan a Garrison State?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20107\13\story_13-7-2010_pg3_2

[Reply]

@Sal

We are in 2010; realties have changed, the big powers are not concerned about whio said what in UN. US attacked Iraq on preemptive grounds; Soviet Union is all dissolved; China is strong… India has to do what it has to do..no ifs, buts. Kashmir will not be let go, because as a democratic country, we just acnnot have referndums.. What if Mumbai wants to be like hong Kong and separate? What about majority of Bangaloreans want to have a sepaarte country/state, so they do not have to give tax to the uplifyment of poor UPwallahs. or Biharis. It simply cannot be done., We are the largest democracy, that does not mean everything is going to be done on majorty opinion of a part of the country. Kashmiris will live as a partt of India, with all its rights. however, until thinhgs get stabilized army ahs to be there, even if it means innocents will be caught in between.

China is not going to give away Tibet eitehr. Innocent Tibetans will get killed by Chinese army. . Nor they are going to give Ugayars away.. And Russia is not going to give Chechnya away.

Get a life. Fix Pakistan first before giving free advice

[Reply]

Sal,
If independence was/ is not an option why are the Kashmiris jumping up and down screaming Azadi? I do not see any Kashmiri saying he wants to join Pakistan. So Sal, thank you for closing this option.
As I’ve said before, plebiscite was a;lso meant for POK and northern territories under the supervision of the Indian army.
That was the only time the Muslim League won because partition was inevitable. Can you give me any other instance the Muslim League won in West Punjab prior to 1947? .
As for Baloch language it is not called Baloch, but Brahui language. Brahui is a Dravidian language like South Indian languages. Yes, i know you do not want to talk about Baloch sardars. We know you killed the Oxford educated , mild mannered Sardar Nawab Bugti by a bunker-busting missile from a F16 while thre nawab was sleeping.
I did not say that the nizam ceded before Indian army action against Razakars.. He kept sending delegatoions to Delhi for over a year bargaining for concessions. After the defeat of the Razakars he did cede to the Constistution in returmn for keeping his personsal fortune.
I know Pashtun are a majority on the area bordering Afghanistan. We all know the ISI has kept Mullah Omar in Quetta. If you think naming NWFP Khyber Pakhtunwa will solve your Pashtun problems you have a big surprise ccoming. Have you ever thought why NWFP is in Pakistan in the first place.? Hasn’t the validity of the disputed Durand Line expired. Even your Pushtun assets/puppetsa will dare to say thast the Durand Line is permanent.
Mere Zaid Hamid wale sawal da jawab te do.

[Reply]

Dear Pakistani brothers;

You guys are the world champions…

SInce you guys have zero intellect and can only prosper by copy-cut-paste…

I am now going to cut and paste an article everyday for you.

PS : Rivet both your ends and then your jehadi bile which comes form both your ends will remain inside you

Ha aha aha
————————————————————————————————————————-

Report in telegraph, famous UK newspaper
—————————————————————————————————————————
Pakistan: the epicentre of Islamist terror

In the lush, green valleys of the Punjab, young men are being schooled in the principles of mass murder.

By Sean Rayment, Security Correspondent
Published: 9:00AM BST 12 Apr

Hizb ut-tahrir members chant slogans as they take part in an anti-US protest in Lahore Photo: AFP/GETTY Some 70 miles north of Lahore, in a 200-acre camp that also houses a large mosque, swimming pool and fish farm, volunteers are taught how to assemble bombs, fire weapons, create terrorist networks and communicate covertly using the internet and mobile phones.

They are also instructed in resistance to interrogation techniques and how to create cover stories in the event of being captured.

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Rageh Omaar on why the West should fear the Taliban and al-Qaeda’s hold on PakistanThis is the headquarters of the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) – which in Urdu translates as “army of the pure” – the organisation widely believed to be responsible for the Mumbai massacre in November which left 172 people dead.

LeT, which professes to be a peaceful organisation, is known to have close links with al-Qaeda and is understood to train around 40,000 young men every year at its madrassas (religious schools) and military bases.

Some of the trainees at its base in the Punjab are British.

Many of those who graduate from the camps are sent to the front line in Kashmir to wage war against the Indian army, others venture north to Afghanistan to fight against Nato forces, while many of the British return to the UK and begin plotting.

Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer are both thought to have visited the camp several times before carrying out the 7/7 suicides attacks on the London Tube network.

Mohammed Ajmal Khan, who was sentenced to nine years in March 2006 for fundraising for terrorist groups operating in Pakistan and Afghanistan, also admitted visiting one of the organisation’s camps.

Virtually all of the al-Qaeda terrorists convicted in Britain since 2001, including the 7/7 bombers and Dhiren Barot – the so-called “Dirty Bomber” – received training in Pakistan.

Gordon Brown recently stated that three quarters of all British terror plots originate from within the state.

However, monitoring everyone visiting or returning from Pakistan is an impossible task for Britain’s police and MI5.

Up to 400,000 British Pakistanis visit the country every year, the vast majority for completely legitimate reasons. Up to 10,000 young Pakistanis enter the UK every year on student visas.

It is also believed that some of the 12 terrorist suspects arrested in Wednesday’s Operation Pathway may have been trained to form a covert cell in Pakistan before entering Britain.

LeT is a hardcore terrorist organisation committed to using extreme violence to achieve its aim of forcing India to leave the disputed area of Kashmir.

But in the 18 years since its creation, the movement has forged links with other terror groups, most notably al-Qaeda, and has become a major threat to many western countries.

After the Mumbai attacks, it emerged that the group had compiled a worldwide hit list of 320 targets. Yet despite being banned by most western countries, the Pakistani authorities stand accused of effectively having turned a blind eye to its operations.

And the organisation is not alone. Another militant group, Lashkar-e-Janghvi is believed to have been behind the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore last month, also operates openly, while other groups such as Jaish-e-Mohammed and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen are understood to be expanding their influence in Punjab, an area with strong British connections.

In one area of Kashmir roughly the size of the West Midlands, 25 militant groups are known to operate with impunity.

Many of their volunteers sign up here for jihad – or ‘holy war’ – before taking the next step of joining other organisations committed to attacking the West.

It is against this backdrop that Pakistan has now acquired the dubious distinction of being epicentre for Islamist terrorism in the world.

At the same time, MI5 and the CIA are becoming increasingly worried by the country’s inability to clamp down on militants.

Pakistan is now a very dangerous country for Westerners to live and work. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office only allows its diplomats to work in the country unaccompanied, meaning partners, wives and children must remain behind in the UK.

As far as the FCO is concerned, Pakistan is as dangerous as Afghanistan, which is currently in the grips of a full-blown insurgency.

The rise of militant Islamist groups in Pakistan began in the early 1980s under the country’s then leader General Muhammad Zia-ul-Huq, largely in response to the growth of Shia fundamentalism in Iran and in a bid to support the Mujahideen who were fighting the Soviets in neighbouring Afghanistan.

Over the last 30 years, the country’s leaders have been content for various Islamist groups to train and recruit in Pakistan, and to wage a proxy war with India over the disputed Kashmir region. During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the Inter-Services Agency (ISI), the intelligence wing of the Pakistan army, funded the Mujahideen and, later, the Taliban in the mid-Nineties.

Although Pakistan is fighting its own counter-insurgency war against militants, the ISI is believed to have firm links with groups like the Taliban and even al-Qaeda, much to the consternation of Britain and the US.

MI5 treats any intelligence passed to it by the ISI with caution, given that much of it is politicised, although the relationship between the two organisations remains strong.

But the US, which over the last few years has funded the Pakistan military and therefore the ISI to the tune of £7 billion, is said to be increasingly frustrated with rogue, Islamist-supporting elements within the ISI.

Washington wants the Pakistani government to clamp down on the militant groups operating within the country and to cleanse the ISI of Taliban and Islamist sympathisers.

Admiral Michael Mullen, the US Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staffs and America’s most senior officer, recently called for the ISI to make “fundamental” changes in its relationship with militants.

But despite the frustrations, there have been some major advances.

The bilateral agreement between Pakistan and Washington, which had been a secret until recently and allowed America’s heavily armed unmanned aircraft, known as Reapers, to attack al-Qaeda and Taliban targets inside Pakistan, have produced enormous dividends.

Security sources said the various strikes over the past 12 months have severely disrupted al-Qaeda operations in Pakistan and their lines of communication back to the UK.

MI5 are convinced that the current lack of so-called “late-stage plots” – in which “cells” of terrorists are close to launching attacks – is partly down to the Reaper strikes in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border regions.

Pakistan, however, remains a country on the brink of catastrophe.

The ‘Talibanisation’ of the Swat Valley in the tribal areas of the northwest frontier province serves to illustrate how the central government is beginning to lose control in certain areas.

It is in this region that more than 75,000 soldiers of its Frontier Corps are waging a bitter counter-insurgency war against the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

The war has reached a stalemate and is causing deep divides within the Pakistani Army. While the officer class support the war, the rank and file see little honour in killing fellow Muslims. The potential for revolt within the Army is very real.

The economy is also in freefall, with some estimates suggesting that Pakistan will be bankrupt within six months, a position which will play further into the hands of the militants, who already recruit the majority of their foot soldiers from the poorest areas.

Pakistan is a country of 150 million people, many of whom are trapped in poverty. It is in desperate need of help, probably more so than neighbouring Afghanistan.

If the economy implodes, the Army revolts and the Islamists gain power – a sequence of events that is entirely possible – the problems for the West will dwarf anything seen in Iraq or Afghanistan and will take international terrorism to a new infinitely more dangerous level.

For the first time since the Cold War, the West would have an enemy with a nuclear capability.

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Crucifixion of Jesus

[Reply]

Sorry fellow bloggers and Vinod uncle…

Lately two duffers from Pakistan, who seemed to have been brainwashed by their suicide school type of education system, Azhar and Sal have been spewing bile from both ends at this blog site.

Now there are two ways to tackle them

a) Study thier brainwashed minds fed on fake history. This way we can make important conclusions on why Pakistan is a epi centre of terror and why its youth want to become suicide bombers and not Amir khan, Dhoni or Bill Gates, as Indian children want to be.

b) Play the game at their low level intellect, which is basically cutting and pasting web material without giving it much thought.

I am now using both the policies.

[Reply]

some facts about Pakistan’s ethnic tensions

Pakistan’s creation was an intention to create a separate nation for South Asian Muslims. however what have been seeing since independence is the subsequent forcible conversions of Hindus , Christians, and Sikhs to Islam. despite of living in low profile , these communities have been targeted and tortured for their faiths in other religions. no doubt

however also other Muslims like Shias , Ahmediyas , Qadiyannis , Sufis and Bohris couldnt escape the wrath of the Wahhabi styled Sunni Islam of Pakistan. these perpetrated attacks have government support.

as for ethnic tensions the only voice coming from other Pakistanis is Punjabi domination. the Sindhis justifiably complain of Muhajir invasion and the arrogance of Punjabis. the Pakhtoons are also ill treated. the same with the Kashmiris and as for the Baloch , i wont say a thing.

today despite of its contrasting diversity India has emerged as a stable progressive nation. India is more culturally heterogenous than Pakistan. however still Pakistan being called an Islamic state is still confused with its identity.

no doubt that Mr G.M Sayyed of Jiye Sindh calls Pakistan as Randeekhana ( w-h-o-r-e house)
you can check his writings for confirmation.

[Reply]

An entity whose founder is known as Qatl-e-Azam , and whose history has Aurangzeb, Mahmud Ghori, Mahmud Ghazni as heroes can only be a demented, criminal entity.

Thats the reality of Pakistan

[Reply]

Discussion is about the atrocities in the cccupied territories, you indians obvious obsessions is discusing Pakistan. Mr. Sharma are you monitoring the blog and its left to the mercy of few jokers who use abusive language to get their point accross.

Vijay and other inidan losers, please cut and paste so that facts are infront of me and you. But dont run away and change the subject, stick around and face the facts, Can you baita.

[Reply]

Dear Azhar Hussain,

I am only doing cut and paste because you were doing it all the time. Just to show how irritaing it can be.

By the way when are yopu flying of to Jannat. I would love to get u psychoanalysed in India or at Gaunamano bay just to decipher why Pakistanis are so sexually frustrated that they blow themselves up thinking that they would get some “pu_ _ _” in jannat :)

Ha ha ha ha

[Reply]

Azhar Hussain zindabad .. will be easier to confront idiots like these haaaaaah

[Reply]

Very sad to see the comments posted on your blog where everyone has his or her pet themes to prove. Everyone wants to dig into the history and compensate for the supposed wrongs – Jinnah, Hyderabad Deccan, Kashmir and all that. None has taken cognizance of a mother’s agony through a speech which Vinod Sharma had quoted. How come we all have become to heartless and insensitive? I dread to think of what the world is coming to.

[Reply]

Is the whole point not that killing other people is wrong? If you dig back into the history of any nation/religion, they will have committed murder on one scale or another. How about taking in the fact that all of the people who have responded here are in pain over something that has happened, or is happening to their people/friends/family. So how about looking to the future and doing everything we can to prevent more people being killed? To prevent future pain and loss? Let’s make a new history and stop using religion and history as an excuse for hatred.

[Reply]