PM’s presser will be remembered for questions not asked



Dr Mammohan Singh’s third national press conference in the six years that he has been at the helm would be remembered for the questions that weren’t posed than for the ones the PM actually fielded. The exercise lasting 80 minutes yielded reaffirmations and clarifications— but no newsbreaks.

Barring Singh’s assertion that he wasn’t planning to retire anytime soon, the question-answer was a study in generalities. It had its lighter moments triggered by some patently silly questions. But there was no sharp or focused questioning expected of the occasion.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during the press conference. HT Photo: T. Narayan

The PM didn’t excel. Nor did any one of the hundreds of journos assembled for the conference.

The loss in the end was mutual, media persons coming away without much to report and the learned economist denied the opportunity to be incisive and insightful on key issues: resumption of talks with Pakistan; fight against Naxalism and above all the government’s robust handling of the economy amid the scary global downturn.

Nobody probed the PM’s mind on the recent Constitutional changes in Pakistan that “empowered” Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani at the expense of Asif Zardari’s Presidency.

The question was relevant as the Thimpu accord to resume Indo-Pak talks came in that backdrop and was — from New Delhi’s standpoint — meant to test Gilani’s ability to deliver on bilateral issues in his new avatar.

Many analysts find the renewed Indian quest for peace a trifle misplaced as powers have been transferred from a civilian President to a civilian PM without disturbing the Army’s pre-eminence in the Pakistani set up.

It would have been interesting to know what Singh thought of the Army’s role in the new situation? Whether he was going ahead despite them or with the hope of setting up a mechanism to engage with the Pak military leadership at a later stage?

Likewise, it was surprising to see Singh getting away lightly on the conduct of ministers from allied parties on whom his control is tenuous. There was no mention of Mamata Banerjee or Chemical and Fertilisers Minister M K Alagiri. One runs her Railways Ministry from Kolkata and the other is notorious for being absent from office and parliament.

With journalists jumping from one issue to another, the proceedings lacked a logical flow. Consequently, there was no persistent questioning on instances of Congress leaders speaking out of turn on the Naxal threat and New Delhi’s alleged distrust of Chinese companies seeking entry to Indian markets.

A major casualty in the middle of it all was the basic protocol that’s due to the PM. Someone even got up to ask whether he was willing to make way for Rahul Gandhi as PM as if the leadership change was going to be settled between the two of them.

A gentleman that he is, Singh took the question in his stride, saying he would willingly do so as and when the Congress leadership arrived at that judgement.

A press conference— like an interview— is a forum that belongs to the interviewee. But its outcome is dependant as much on the erudition of the interviewer.

At the Vigyan Bhawan this morning, scribes got away with long speeches and silly asides for want of effective intervention from the stage. I for one am sure we didn’t inspire the PM enough to look forward to setting up another interaction anytime soon. Eighty minutes is too long a time to be wasted on an inane exercise by a busy PM.

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  • http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Sharma ji,
    A well written piece indeed. Your comments as usual made interesting read. I see that Mr. Singh has evolved (or rather regressed) into a true politician. He knew what to duck, how to evade and when to smile at the right question. His tail as an economist and academician has long fallen off and I presume the press conference was an announcement of this metamorphosis. We can only hope that in years to come the PM shows more astuteness in dealing with subjects which concern us, the common Indians and not those which bother the US, the IMF, the MNCs or the World Bank.
    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    Blog: http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    A good piece by Vinod Sharma.
    I too wanted to hear Manmohan speak on the questions that Mr Sharma has listed.

    This was Manmohan’s 3rd such press meet in 6 years ! So these are rare events and the media had a responsibility to come armed with searching questions. Sad that such an opportunity was lost.

    Was Vinod Sharma there and did he get an opportunity to ask a question ?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Wanted to ask the PM as to how he assessed the Opposition’s performance in his second term. The general perception is that the BJP is more reasonable now than it was in the UPA’s first term. In the end I simjply didn’t get a chance.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Dear Sharma saheb
    Thank God, you did not ask this question. By the way, is this question more relevant to-day than the price rise? Ever since the UPA 2 first report card was discussed after it completed 100 days in Aug. 2009, the nation was assured that worst of food inflation will be over soon.
    Even Rahul Gandhi got so much concerned about this issue, though very rarely, asked the PM about the food price rises, which have rise 300-400% in the last two years according to published statistics, the PM tells Rahul Gandhi that the prices will come down soon (Jan, 2010). Now at the press conferecne , the PM says that prices are likely to come down by Dec. 2010. The prices are not coming down and the PM only extending the date of assurances to the public very often. If any political party raises the question of food price rises, the govt. reacts to say that price rise should not be politicised.

    I beliecve, the media has also played along the govt. by being very mild on the govt. on this issue. After all, it was the same media which through its very aggressive and proactive coverage were able to raise people sentiments to the extent that BJP lost the Delhi elections at some time on the issue of onions and tomotos price hikes.
    According to PM , the worse of food inflation is over but pulses continue to be sold at +100Rs/ kg . After all, it is the staple food of most of the indian public, poor and middle class. Yes, Mrs Sheila Dikshit can say arrogantly that people can afford to pay as their salaries have been increased maifolds. But poor labour class and living in jhonpris do not earn enough to be able to even afford daily DAL-ROTI, as their wages have not been raised to that extent.
    Please think over this seriously as the price rises are not the issue of political parties alone and to protest about price rise is not playing politics. It is the real problem of a common man. But the govt. has the luxury of saying ” You elected us, so bear with every thing” Is n’t that arrogant way of ruling?
    Thanks and with regards
    BNA

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    I have just one anathor comment. All this new spin of ‘trust deficit’ with Pakistan , which everyone in the media is now talking about, needs some examination.

    Why do we have a trust deficit ?
    Well , everyone knows why. As far as India is concerned, Pak has been absolutely dishonest and vile in its dealings with India. The details are well known.

    So, the question should be , do we think that the ‘character’ of the Pak state has changed ?
    or does the govt of India think, that we can through talks “change the character of the Pak state” ?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    There is trust deficit because India is formenting trouble in Azad kashmir. On 26/11 10 Indian terrorists wrecked Havoc in karachi.
    How can you expect pakistan to trust us?

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    Feeling on this side of the border is same. Don’t tell me you poor innocent indians are sitting on the side line and minding your own business, because you are not. The daily terrorists in Pakistan are not just internal issue.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Why are your people planting bomb in US? Is US not helping your country with money and food?

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    True!

    US backed military regime under Zia and Musharaff, something which the judiciary, civil parties never liked and protested. The dada of democracy and secular rule had sided with the military boots in its need of hour and now is also with the civilian leadership. US has many faces dear, the problem i see in me is we have not mastered the tricks the way US has.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Usman saheb
    I totally agree with you. I hope you remember USA deserting Pakistan soon after Soviets left Afghanistan. Now the superpower is back in Afghanistan and for that matter, Pakistan has to always deal with USA in an obedient fashion. Could Pakistan check the drone attacks from USA on its territory? Can you forget USA saying that it will reduce Pakistan to the stone age if it does not cooperate in war against Taliban and Al-Queda.?For that matter, USA has opened up its coffers to Pakistan as a price for cooperation, but the same can be shut down once the interests of USA have been served. For USA,there is relationship as long as it serves its interests. Could we have ever imagined USA pampering our country during the cold war days? It happened only when our economy opened up. While USA has a strategic relationship with Pakistan, it has economic relationship with our country.

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Good day Dr Anand,

    Sir, you have said that all for yourself leaving nothing more for me. Indeed its the game of interest either you use or abuse. Ever being US-ally whether that was in 80s or now, things never had in Pakistan’s way. That is why I often say not to rely on US aid and be loyal to self then to someone else. That has been the constant habit of US to chase its interest at the expense of twisting the arms of others.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Sharmaji,
    Did you ask any question from MMS or you sat defending him as you do in most of your debates?
    Did you hear his expalanation on 2G spectrum?
    I guess we need honest people like him :) in all walks of life.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Rajeev 2G dates back to your party of love— the BJP-led NDA. Sukh Ram, Promod Mahajan and some say even Arun Shourie took a “dubki in the behati ganga” Rajeev pehalwan. So rethink your wonky humour.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    MMS made a silly excuse that 2G dates back to NDA policies. I thought congress considered itself progressive so why did it not alter NDA policy. It had rollbacked many of the BJP schemes including highway projects so what stopped it from reversing FLAWED NDA 2G policy.

    Till yesterday, no one including you gave this excuse and now you are just repeating lies by MMS.

    Sharmaji,
    As a journalist, you are suppose to be neutral but you are not. As a COMMON citizen, I have right to align with any party publicly however you are not entitled to this liberty.
    I read story about paid journalism in outlook, they forgot to mention you by name.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Thanks for calling me Pehalwan but I won’t return the favor. For me you are a boot licking journalist.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    I was impressed with the defence of PM and UPA in one of the TV debates.
    I guess congress should give you raise.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Rajeev
    Surely you are using the abuses you hurl on this blog to seek promotion and salary hike for yourself from your handlers in Nagpur. Aap biti ko Jag biti mat banaya karo my dear.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    Mirchi lag gayee kya..Why don’t you join Congress Sandesh full time? You are finished as neutral journalist.

    karuna Reply:

    Does that mean that a UPA dubki, since it postdates an NDA dubki, is kosher?? What all sins does it wash away??

    [Reply]

    Sanjay Reply:

    Sharmaji, request you to not spoil the name of the one of the greatest journalist of all times, Mr Shouri in your attempt to prove your integrity towards your profession. You destroy whatever credibility journalism has left by dragging his name in the war of words.

    Additionally please note that It is apparent to even a blind that you are a paid journalist and will defend even the indefensible acts of congress.

    [Reply]

  • sharma

    Sharmaji,

    Very artistic in making failure of congress that MMS and Sonia and Rahul are part of look like success…

    Very artistically Congress robbed failed growth policies of BJP to own it as their own.

    DONTTTTTT do it again…

    Sharma

    [Reply]

    sharma Reply:

    The reason policies of BJP were to fail because they were copied as well and credit given to wrong people.

    DONTTTTTT do it again… Let goo…

    Regards,

    D Sharma

    [Reply]

  • Vikram

    Thats typical Indian behaviour. Sidestep the issues whch matter most and wish they would go away or learn to live with them in course of time or accept it as kismet . Neither the PM wants to answer the tough issues head on nor the journalists want to do some heavy duty analytical reporting. they were probably fishing for some loose quote which they could highlight and trumpet around. also most probably gutless reporters were afraid to incur the wrath of mai baap sarkar in standing up and asking tough questions and rejoinders. A nation of wimps sadly. Maybe we should include such televised public darbars every month for each of the main ministers. a monthly report card. why not. isnt this a democracy. maybe in course oftime in a generation or two we would develop some accountability in the government. now it is always the rulers and the ruled.
    and whats all this stupid ‘trust deficit’ with pakistan. those guys are killing us by whatever means they can and all that we can say (forget do) in return is talk about this stupid trust deficit. idiots and cowards ..naive old fools .. the pakistanis must be laughing their heads off. and did u see the moment we kind of make our usual cowardly conciliatory steps there is some violence escalation from the pakistani side. the firing on LOC. Krishna goes to karachi and there will be God forbid some incidence.
    btw good one sharmaji.

    [Reply]

  • Vismaya George

    The Indian media need not feel so bad about its poor performance with Dr.Manmohan Singh.The American media is actually far worse with Barack Obama.Despite the media’s servile attitude Obama avoids it like the plague when he anticipates hard or probing questions.

    [Reply]

  • Dilip

    The problem plaguing India is that everyone wants to have an easy meal, if not free meal. No one wants to work hard and sincerely. And that includes journalists. We often bash politicians, bureaucrats, government officials, lawyers etc of being incompetent lazy bums. But what about journalists? They are the worst of the lot, yet they escape the scrutiny because, who will write about them?! Just see the pathetic standard of reporting in Indian newspapers and channels. It is sheer yellow journalism. In London, a free tabloid called ‘Metro’ has better journalistic standards than the top selling broadsheets in India. About news channels…. They are not even worth commenting upon.

    [Reply]

  • Mahendra Patel

    Corruption in INDIA is like daily need. Nobody is asking PM’s view on SWISS MONEY, corruption in social welfare schemes, deaths of RTI activist, CBI misuse any many more.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    I agree with you on this… at the end he did not say anything substantial….

    [Reply]

  • sonam wangchuk shakspo

    Dear Sir,
    I entirely agree that nothing substantive has come out of this 80 minutes long press conference. But I dont blame PM for this. PM was only answering the rather silly questions put forth by the journos.

    [Reply]

  • Enlightened India

    And his finishing of task is to transfer smoothly the PM position to Rahul. Manmohan is nothing but a humble servant of Nehru
    dynasty and has no political gravity of his own. Manmohan can be kicked out anytime if he does not conform 100% and with zero
    tolerance with the desire of Sonia family. Only difference between him and ex congress president Sitaram Keshri is that
    Manmohan does not hopefully clean shoes of Sonia’ family with his white Kurta before they put their feet into them, as Keshri was
    allegedly used to do with his dhoti. India is the only laughable fake democracy in the world where the government is not headed
    by an elected leader of the public but a henchman of a politically insane Nehru dynasty, a dynasty who has destroyed the nation to
    a failed state. Manmohan is a big blot on the name of democracy itself. Apart from having womanly voice, contrary to the Sikh’s
    feature, a back bencher in Oxford, never elected from anywhere, a looser from South Delhi parliamentary constituency election, a
    back door entry to Rajya Sabha, after being rejected from people, as a candidate of a state he does not reside, one more unique
    feature of Manmohan is that he has 3 apolitical daughter, which makes him a safer servant with no future threat from his
    offsprings, a typical trait of a typical Third world wrapper democracy. India is going through its dark ages where we have a loyal
    servant as it PM and allegedly a one time cook of Nehru family as its president. So far, Manmohan is appointed to reverse
    Nehruvian economic policy, now someone has to reverse Nehruvian social and governance policies, i.e. India needs a complete
    overhaul in order to become a civilized nation. Current form of hijacked Indian democracy and subjective law & order system has
    no credibility and is effectively a dictatorship in a wrapper of democracy.

    [Reply]

  • thomasgeorgeperakathu

    the pm’s press conference is an impressive one. As the head of a coalition government , he is having the limitations to perform in a press conference. For example, the case of R Raja, Telecom minister everbody who are reading newspaper knows he is corrupt and incompetent. But PM cannot give a clear reply since he iis the minister of the powerful ally. So as a PM he is doing lot of good things the people will support him to lead this nation from strength to strength. I don’t think the press conference is totally perefect. But it is upto the mark. He is main advantage he is having all qualities to sit as the Pm of India , I think India should be more frank to discuss each and every issue. openly

    [Reply]

  • Nikhil

    Vinod,

    Some of my views as follows,

    First. The quality of questions asked for the PM to answer reflects the overall lousy state of Indian media today; low on substance, high on sillyness. The dull media seems to be falling behind the intellect of our society.

    Second. The media never hesitates to ask the BJP who is going to be its PM candidate in the next elections. If some one asks similar question to the party of heirs, the Congress, why should it be seen as falling out of line? The PM is part of the Congress leadership and is answerable to the nation on the question of succession. Despite the obvious, no one expects Manmohan to announce Rahul as the next PM in the press conference.

    Third. MAUNmohan Singh has not done us favor by holding a presser. Addressing the nation more frequently must be made mandatory for the PM in the world’s largest democracy. If and when it happens the press conferences of the future will have better structure and hopefully result in richer discussions.

    [Reply]

  • Ramesh RC

    I hope media at national level had noticed it long back that the Indian Prime Minister has evolved as politician …

    But, when will the national media ?

    It is, often, visible at press conferences..journos give lengthy speech which may end with a question mark. And the person/neta, needs to understand the “question” in the “bhashan” to answer .

    Vinod ji mentioned logical flow of questions…which is true. Do we need the press conference be divided into economics, security, foreign, political…etc? To facilitate the both?!

    I think its time for the news papers – nurture their journalists – who go to bigger venues and important people – understand the value of time..

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    Whereas there is no doubt that it was a non event, but this was a press – conference called by the PM, to explain the achievements of the UPA2. It was equally his duty to explain his position on burning issues , instead of waiting for questions to be asked. It appears he was only too happy to duck . At the same time it also shows the state of the Indian Press , who otherwise behave like Mr Know -Alls and never fail in giving sermons to all alike . I only wish that some day we shall see the editorial depth and integrity in the Indian Press which is so visible in media like BBC , CNN etc.

    [Reply]

  • A.C. Sethi

    Mr Vinod Sharma,
    The Press Conference was very dull and disappointing. It appears that t was only a formality. Neither PM made any policy statement nor journalists asked any probing questions. Not able to really understand the real purpose of the PC. The issues which were raised reply of PM to those questions was just without any substance on either of the issues including his own favorite topic.

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Pray do tell us Sharmaji if you attended this press conference and did you ask any question

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    The questions were not probing and the answers left no one more informed. There was a bland question on David Headley and it got a banal answer. This is what I would have asked.

    . I would have referred to Headley, son of a Pak foreign office official, by his real not assumed name, Daood Gilani.

    The questions would be.
    Daood Gilani has named his Pak handlers and supervisors in his court documents and testimony in USA. They reportedly include serving and ex Pak army officers. What has the Indian government done to persue that evidense with Pakistan ?

    Pakistan , has totally ignored the most damning evidense, including recorded phone conversations, e-mails between Daood Gilani and his Pak supervisors. What does Manmohan make of Pakistan’s refusal to use the evidense at his disposal to prosecute 26/11 carnage masterminds ?

    How does he explain his latest move to build trust in light of these glaring acts of omission by Pakistan ?

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    This press conference was a joke.
    He admitted-
    1. He will make way for Rahul Gandhi if asked to. What does this mean? He is openly admitting that he is an appointee of Nehru-Gandhi family.
    2. He gives excuse for 2G spectrum by holding NDA policy responsible. When Congress reversed all the NDA policy both good and bad, what stopped him from fixing flawed 2G spectrum process.
    3. He HOPED that inflation will come down by december. I guess it is for people to HOPE and govt. to fulfill that HOPE.
    4. He consults his wife and Sonia. I am sure this PM is more loyal to Sonia than his wife.

    This press conf. was stage managed by paid journalist like Sharma who made sure that PM was never pinned down.

    MMS is morally corrupt person if not financially.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Rajeev
    How well do you know me to question my personal integrity by calling me names? All that I can say is that you haven’t been reared well by your parents.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    STFU..You are the one who was not reared properly by your parents. The spineless journalist like you have no shame left.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    Hey Rajeev lets talk about the terrorist Modi who has been elected CM of Gujrat

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Let court decide that.
    However the first terrorist was Mohammad.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Rajeev,
    Pl mind the consequences of what you write. Shall request you to be restrained and not say anything
    in the heat of the moment about which you may regret later. I take serious exception to ur comments on the Prophet.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    Don’t worry about me. Did your prophet not commit violence? so what does that mean?

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    Now I know why you side with muslims. You are scared of them..period.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Where was your secular a*s when karunanidhi was badmouthing RAMA?

    You are a coward..Mr.Sharma..You father was kicked out by muslims of pakistan but that fear is still in your heart. You now want to appease your own opressors so that they show some kindness to you.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharmaji,
    You are perfect example of Dhimmi. By telling me about consequences, you are showing that your respect for Islam and muslims is due to the fear of their violence.

    What a coward!!!

    Akash Reply:

    Vinod Jee,
    Don’t worry about Rajeev’s comment. He lives near Kauriya pul and he is, well, for a want of better word, a H*jra; he belongs to neuter gender. :) So he is all bark and no bite.

    By the way, I don’t think there is anything wrong in saying blasphemous words about any prophet. To each his own.

    yash Reply:

    @AZHAR HUSSAIN….

    LOOK WHO IS TALKING ABOUT TERRORISTS…. A P-A-KI….. HAHHAHAHA

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Azhar, have a mind yar. Dont bargain stupidity in response to blasphemous remarks.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Usman,
    I am just asking you kind of questions which muslims ask others. You people openly say that ‘Islam is the only true religions’, ‘Hindu gods are false’..don’t you?

    If you believe in secularism, can you say that Islam is equal to Hinduism?

    I am sure you won’t commit this shirk.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Azhar,
    Didn’t Mohammad kill when he raided towns in Arabia? Did he not rape the captured women?

    However Modi did not kill a single person with his own hands nor did he rape anyone.

    So you decide who is terorist and who is not?

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    One question I would have loved to ask MMS would be ” WHy has your Chief Minister from Delhi, Maa Shiela chosen to be the mother of Afzal Guru and not of the brave security men who died defending MP’s INCLUDING Congress MP’s ?

    [Reply]

  • shiney

    But this should be of least surprise to u, as u come from the same journalist community. We have seen the downhill ride that media in India has taken in the last few years in terms of credibility, asking right questions and pursuing right matters are concerned.
    In fact MMS came across as a well rounded true politician with the answers he gave.
    Our talking to Pak is based on our understanding that we have no other choice and not because of some silly amendment in Pak. Isnt it naive to expect that the PM would have given an honest answer on any question relating to Pak’s internal affairs? If at all there was a question on the new amendment, his answer would have been ‘This is an internal affair of Pak, however we welcome anything that strenghens democracy in Pak’…………and how revealing would that be.
    Sorry the questions u raised are as unimaginative as the other questions that were raised, so good that they got skipped.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    Dear Vinod,

    Were you present in the PM press conference ?

    I saw you in the talk show saying that journalist did not ask proper questions… just asking whether you were present or not ?

    Thanks,
    Yash

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @yash
    Yes I was

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    If you were present in the conference why did you not ask those questions which you say should have been ?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @yash
    Wasn’t called to ask a question. Got lost in the crowd. That happens sometimes. But thought the event could have been organised better— with the 80 minutes of Q and A divided into segements dealing with economics, foreign affairs and politics. Unfortunately, those who got a chance
    frittered it away by resorting to frivilous questioning.

  • Rajiv

    ——————————————————–
    Criminal propoganda by bigots , media and Gujrat riots.
    ——————————————————————————–

    I will quote only independent sources here.

    2002 Gujarat violence – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAt the same time, about two hundred policemen ..lost their lives trying to control the violence ….. “254 Hindus, 790 Muslims killed in post-Godhra riots”. …
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence -

    Any riots are wrong and tragic and inncocents lose there lives. The state and society owes an apology to all hindus and muslims killed in Godhra carnage and post Godhra riots.

    But the bigots and anti-BJP media ( communists, naxalists, Congress ) , have distorted facts and sacrificed the truth, in there eagerness to score political points. They have maligned India in the process.

    If Godhra riots were done by the state of Gujrat led by Modi then
    1. How did 254 Hindus die ? Did they commit suicide , like I suppose the 54 Hindus in Godhra ???
    2. How did the 200 plus Gujrat policemen, who take orders from the state government run by Modi die ?
    3. Did the policemen commit suicide or did they die protecting Hindus from Muslim mobs or protecting Muslims from Hindu mobs ????
    The number of pilicemen killed is astounding and speaks volumes about the sacrifices the state administration of Gujrat did to protect the people, Hindus and Muslims.

    4. Gujrat has a 80% hindu and 20% muslims , roughly. So assuming 1 % of Hindus and 1% of Muslims, were rioting, there should be 4 hindus rioting for every 1 muslim. But the number of Hindus and Muslims killed, ( 264 to 790 , excluding even Godhra ) , suggest that more Muslims as a percentage of their population were rioting, or else mathemetically there should be a ratio of 4 to 1 , among Muslims to Hindus, killed in the riots, assuming they were not commiting suicide !.

    All riots are tragic. Just as 1984 riots. But riots don’t happen in a vaccum. Before 1984, Khalistani terrorists on a regular basis, pulled Hindus out of train and buses in Punjab and gunned them down. This happened for a few years, almost every other day, with zero retaliation from any Hindu activists. Innocents Hindus were butchered on a regular basis. It was that criminal killings by Khalistani murdereres that built the rage which provided a fertile ground for 1984 riots, which killed thousands of innocent Sikhs.

    The media’s role should be to dispassionately look at facts and not provide room to religious bigots for political purposes.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Just a small correction, Muslims are 9% of Guj. population. Rest all mostly hindus.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Then , my maths is even more relevent. So assuming 1 % of Hindus and 1 % Muslims were rioting, there should have been 1:10 ratio of rioting muslims and Hindus and the inverse ratio ( 10: 1 ) of casualities.
    But thats not the case. The media has reduced a riot to as if only one community was the victim.

    What a outrageous, criminal LIE !

    Its necessary in a democracy to be honest with the facts and promote interfaith harmony, between all religious groups in India. By distorting facts , the anti-Modi faction has abused the tragic riots for there own cynical goals. its those lies that are picked up by Jihadis and other assorted criminals and sold as truth to their communities.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I am convinced of the fact that our media is full of paid journalist.

    We common Indian get info. from these people but media keeps putting its own spin to facts thus fooling people. Where is the moral compass of these people?

    Akash Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Your point about the Delhi riots is very valid. I wonder why we don’t hear that in case of that too the state had failed miserably in checking wanton murders of Hindus in Punjab. I remember that in 80s it was such a common piece of news that so many Hindus or so many migrant laborers murdered in cold blood, etc. To be fair, there were some like Khuswant Singh who brought this issue quite prominently, and for which he received death threats from Khalistanis. About Gujarat, we still need to know exactly what/how things happened. It was a shameful episode though and we could have easily avoided it.

    [Reply]

  • ashu

    I generally dont agree with Rajiv or his style. However, he has a point here and I do think that media should be more mature in reporting and not too activist or sensationalist, except after a thorough investigation. If not, we end up maligning the country and its various institutions on the world stage. Look at what is hapening with Canada and the Visa’s for various Defence personnel.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    On the VISA issue, India should suspend all VISAs for anyone related to Canada defense forces / peacekeeping forces and its police.
    Reason

    1. Ghastly murder and rape committed by som emembers of Canadian peace keeping operations couple of years ago.
    2. Inability of Canadian police to prosecute the perpetrators of Kanishka bombing.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    There are three puny countries who think themselves as some kind of power and lecture us on everything.

    1. Canada – Country that has been founded on blood natives. A colony of French and Brits.
    2. Australia – Country that wiped out natives and refuses to compensate. Almpost all the whites are decendents of convicted criminals.
    3. New Zealand – not very diff. from Australia.

    India should get tough with these three thug countries. The best way will be to block all their bids in Indian projects.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Vindo Sharma,
    I think you should delete the comment , that harms religious sentiments and is unnecessary.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    I posted that on purpose to show that Sharmaji is one sided secularist. I did not hear him condemn Karunanidhi when karuna was calling Rama drunkard.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    EVERYONE including one-sided secular Sharmaji,
    I believe in two way secularism.
    I am ready to accept that Islam and Hinduism are two EQUAL ways to reach GOD.

    Now I request all muslims are xtians on this blog to say the same.
    I am not asking hindus to express their opinion because I know 100% of the hindus have no problem accepting all religions as equal and GOD one.

    Please prove your secularism.

    If not, don’t preach us about so called tolerance.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Rajeev,

    I often come across your comments and find you as the sole victim of muslim hardships. Although, I’ve been on this blog for the past one year but i never came across any criticism against any religion by a muslim let it be idol worshipors or otherwise. On the other hand you have much more in your lab then anyone else even if it is not on a serious criticism but at times you do cross limits, something of which you are not even aware of. So if you feel other religions exhibit less tolerance towards hindus and especially Islam/muslims are more arrogant on this please do speak in your defence but try to exhibit this within the context and norms.

    Coming to your point on secularism either one way or two way, muslims have been discouraged to exhibit polytheism. Any piece linked with polytheism is infact called as shirk. The meaning of this is interpreted harshly by all thinkers (even muslims). We muslims have been strictly asked that there is no form of God. There is no son/daughter/wife nor any human/worldly desires that God requires. If hinduism is one such religion that is on the principles of polytheism then the answer to your response is Islam and Hinduism are two DIFFERENT ways and not equal.

    ————————————————————————————————

    You mentioned Muhammad asked to have sex with slave women:

    This attribution is false. Why? the context was for those who think slaves as inferior and not human. The condition was set that whosoever would free slaves God will forgive him/her from minor sins. We have complete chapters in Islamic literature about dealings with slave. Men were encouraged to marry slave women as a token to accept them as part of society, respect them and had allowed to have sexual relation (after marriage). The harsh interpretation of which is ‘to have sex with slave women’ something which you go by.

    You mentioned Muhammad as terrorist:

    Muhammad was faith driven, he had a mission to fulfill that had been the responsibility of hand picked people before him. That dwelled into power. So after first 10 yrs of sufferings in Mecca and later exiled he regrouped into a force and reclaimed back Mecca. That driving machine had vast area in its grip in a little span of time.

    Now, going by this I belive British/Europeans who invadid India/Africa and other parts of the world and made their colonies are also as terrorists.

    Alexander is a terrorist, White Huns who destroyed Buddihist civilization and Guptas are terrorist, Buddhists who expanded out of India/Nepal and expanded all the way in Far East are terrorist.
    That has been the rise and fall of civilizations. Sadly but that is the game of world. Sorry if in all of this Hindus got victimized, hang me for all such attrocities.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Usman,
    So you are basically claiming superiority of Islam over others. How are you any diff. from Osama Bin Laden?

    Mohammad committed crimes but you justify it saying that he was fulfilling his mission. It clearly means that you support terrorists as all the terrorists claim to fulfill their mission.
    I am surprised how you muslims manipulate facts to suit your thinking.

    Mohammad was sex maniac and violent person.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Rajeev,
    You certainly have a point , when you point out the variance in how different religions deal with the subject of respecting other religions.

    The high ideals of tolerance of diversity in religious thought, that are embedded in Hindu religious philosophty, don’t depend on what other religious thoughts propogate or say.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    So how can they (minorities and people like Sharma) tolerance from us? Whatever intolerance you see in hindus today is reaction to how minorities treat hindus and their religion.

    It is time for reciprocal tolerance. If muslims refuse to respect my faith, I refuse to respect their. The time for one-sided love is over.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pl. read-
    So how can they (minorities and people like Sharma) demand tolerance from us?

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ———————————————————–
    20% to 1 % , in just 60 years
    ———————————————————–

    Even in 1947, Hindus made up 20% of the population of West Pakistan ands a majority in 3 of there 4 largest cities.
    They now number 1 % or so. Pakistan has beaten Nazi Germany in exterminating the minorities.
    Below is a story from todays DNA times that should give some clues about how this happened.

    57 Pakistani Hindus convert to Islam ‘under pressure’
    http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_57-pakistani-hindus-convert-to-islam-under-pressure_1388695

    Amir Mir / DNAFriday, May 28, 2010 2:22 IST Email

    Print

    ISLAMABAD: Over 50 Pakistani Hindus have converted to Islam in the Sialkot district of Punjab within a week (between May 14 and May 19) under pressure from their Muslim employers in a bid to retain their jobs and survive in the Muslim-dominated society.

    As many as 35 Hindus converted to Islam on May 14, another 14 on May 17 and eight on May 19, 2010.

    All the 57 Hindus who have converted belong to the Pasroor town of Sialkot.

    According to some Pakistani electronic media reports, Mangut Ram, a close relative of some of the new converts, who lives in Sialkot, said that these Hindus had to embrace Islam because they were under pressure from their Muslim employers.

    He said four Hindu brothers along with their families lived in the village of Nikki Pindi. Mangut Ram said that Hans Raj, Kans Raj, Meena/Kartar and Sardari Lal along with his nephews and sons worked at an eatery in Karachi.

    According to Mangut Ram, his co workers often used to speak against Hindus in Karachi where his family worked. “The owner of the shop where I worked said that after a few months of his employing me the sales dropped drastically because people avoided purchasing and eating edibles prepared by Hindus. Many people opposed the large presence of Hindu employees at his shop and my boss felt pressured to change the situation,” he added.

    Ram said Sardari Lal and his brother Meena/Kartar had worked at the sweets shops for several years and made a decent living that allowed them to support their families.

    He said other Muslims employees of the nearby shops discriminated against them and persecuted them. The shop owner was forced to think about their future at his establishment. “That was when the two brothers and their families decided to embrace Islam in order to keep their jobs and be secure,” he added.

    Ram confirmed that 13 family members of Sardari Lal, 12 members of Meena/ Kartar, their nephew Kans Raj’s son Boota Ram along with three adults and several children of these families embraced Islam on May 14, 2010.

    He said that Sardari Lal’s older brothers Hans Raj and Kans Raj remained Hindus. Hans Raj too has said that he might consider converting to save his job. He said that life was ‘just easier if one was Muslim’ and he wouldn’t be discriminated against.

    Ram said that 14 Hindus of the Tapiala village had embraced Islam on May 17 because they were extremely poor and could not get jobs because no one would employ the large Hindu family.

    He said that another relative of his, Parkash, who lived in the village of Seowal, along with his eight family members had embraced Islam in order to save their lands.

    “After embracing Islam, Parkash Ram told me that Muslim neighbours had been mistreating him and had forced him to convert,” Mangut Ram said.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Usman,
    Any religion , that preches that its the only true religion, his God the only true God , its prophet the final prophet etc , is selfevidently an inexcusable fascist ideology. Period.

    Its that fascist ideology that fed the people that gunned down 71 Muslims of Ahmedia sect in Lahore today.

    There are now civilized excuses for such an uncivilized philosophy .

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Corrected
    “There are no civilized excuses, for any such uncivilized ideology”.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    If Islam , can only except that other religions are ‘NOT EQUAL’ but only ‘DIFFERENT’ as Usman says, ( “Islam and Hinduism are two DIFFERENT ways and not equal ” )
    what about non Muslim nations said Muslims are NOT EQUAL to others, but Different ?????

    You can see how that pernicious logic will subvert the free societies. It will claim the benefits that a tolerant free society offers and then brutally subvert it , as soon as they reach power. Communism and fascism also operate on similar principles.

    Equal respect for other religions is a must for free societies to operate.

    You can see, how deep rooted the pernicious thinking of considering religions un-equal is even for someone like Usman who evidently looks like has somehow come to beleive that he has sane arguments !!!!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I proved my point but girls like Akash continue to offer themselved to muslims.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    After reading Usman comments, it is proved that even so-called liberal muslim can never be secular. They have to claim superiority of Islam and reject all other religions, to be a good muslims.

    It reminds me of Hitler’s Nazism and Fascist ideology followed in home country of sonia gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    All other religions are different philosophies, there is no criteria to be good muslims by defaming other religions and calling non-muslims as non-humans. Never was never will be.

    [Reply]

  • Usman Chaudhry

    Rajiv/Rajeev,

    The strange thing is how you precieve this, I claim Hinduism and Islam to be different and not equal with respect to inner dynamics (fundamental ideology) and not that one is inferior and other superior. Rethink over this.

    Secondly, do you think it is fair to compare a religious philosophy to a world view. Islam is a religious philosophy compairing its principles to secular principles is no comparison and one would always find deficiency and would lead to throwing unnecessary stones. You are free to live and exhibit what ever you want to go by.

    (Will continue… )

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Usman saheb
    Quite an interesting debate. Let me know how Ahmediyas are different from Muslims, though it was only in the late seventies that they were declared as non-muslims. For that reason, in the process Pakistan disowned Professor Abdus salam ,its only Nobel Laureate in Physics(1979) as he (I suppose) happened to belong to this sect. What is the social relationship betweeen these two sects of people in Pakistan? Why this sect incurred the wrath of clerics to be declared non-muslims, though untill then they were part of the muslim mainstream. Now the hatred between the two sects has reached to the point that Ahmediyas are being butchered while praying in mosques. Is there any chance that Ahmediyas may also ask for their homeland . I suppose there is no country whehere the majority of the population may be Ahmediyas(like Shias are in Iran)
    I know these are very inconvenient queries , but would surely help in understanding the problem.
    Good Day (Guten Tag)
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Let me just add. Organized and officially sanctioned persecution of Ahmedias or Qadainis ( whom Hamid Mir , a top Geo TV anchor is reportedly heard on tape as calling ‘worse than kafirs” ), started in the seventies under Zia-Ul-Haq.

    In Pakistan, its against the law, for Ahmedias to claim they are Muslims, to claim there place of worship is Mosque, prohibited from following Muslim customs and prohibited from wearing muslim attire.

    Religious fundamentalism is very hard to revert and there is a lesson for all countries in this.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    The sunnis like Usman consider Quadanis (Ahmadiya) Wajib-Ul-Qatl.
    Then they say Islam is religion of peace..obviously when you kill everyone around you, there will be eerie peace one day.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    . Will re comment again.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Dear Dr Anand,

    Somehow my comments never got published to your response. Will re compile and comment again.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Usman,
    Please don’t play with words. All I am asking you NOW is to declare in honesty that-
    “Hinduism and Islam are two DIFFERENT ways to achieve SAME GOD”..

    Can you commit atleast this SHIRK?

    [Reply]

  • http://marvisirmed.com Marvi Sirmed

    Adab from Pakistan! A very well written piece indeed. Helped me understand the general mood of media-istan in Delhi!

    One thing that I noticed in this piece was, your taking note of PM’s protocol being slightly undermined by a scribe asking an inapt question. Sir, when I was watching this presser on one of your TV channels live, my reflex action was, How disciplined! Yes, in our case, undermining the respect towards civilian leadership is so widespread and acceptable that it largely goes unnoticed. While Watching PM Singh’s Presser, I was saying to my husband, “it looks like a press conference in ISPR being handled by one of our Generals, as nothing under the sun could ever press our journalists to sit back and wait for their turn to ask questions”.

    Himself a journalist, he obviously was offended, but all marks for Indian democracy!

    Warmest of my wishes for all of you

    Marvi Sirmed
    Islamabad

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Hi Marvi,

    Gud to have you on this blog. Welcome!
    Vinod

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Marvi
    Saw u and Mehmal on Barkha’s programme on facebook. Both of you were very brave and very objective in your criticism of the ban.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @Usman,
    Thanks for the clarification about how you think.
    You wrote..
    “I claim Hinduism and Islam to be different and not equal with respect to inner dynamics (fundamental ideology) and not that one is inferior and other superior. ”

    However, there are places in Pakistan and else where , where you may be lynched as a heretic for such comments. The problem, as I see it is not primarily with Islam or any religion but the organized bureucracy around it, that is the church, which claims divine rights to interpretation.
    It would be perfectly fine, if each individual was left to interpret it as per his or her own intellect .
    So organized religion, if it enforces a certain interpretation by violence and intimidation ( fatwas, physical violence, ex-communication etc ) , it becomes a cult .

    Bye the way, I have no intention of denigrating Islam. Millions of my countrymen are Muslims and I respect that. I would be delighted, if Pakistan followed the Islam that Turkey follows or practices.
    Until that happens, radical Islam needs to be opposed or else it will devour civilization around it.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Thank you Rajiv for finally understanding my prespective.

    Oh No! you dont need to worry about me being lynched or publically prosecuted. By God’s grace I’ve a clear conscience of what I stated/meant/wrote without defaming any religious thought.

    On Turkey, I believe Malaysia is a better example atleast they dont have greed for EU seat despite being rejected multiple times.

    [Reply]

  • Mahesh

    Rajiv,
    You said :
    ” I would be delighted, if Pakistan followed the Islam that Turkey follows or practices.
    Until that happens, radical Islam needs to be opposed or else it will devour civilization around it.”
    What makes you so certain that Pakistan’s problems have to do with the Islam it is following ? Care to explain what makes you so pious in discounting the politcs and related power structure ?
    - Mahesh.
    p.s. for Usman : Thanks for a wonderful multi-part reply . Even an atheist like me – who has equal disdain for all religions – was impressed by the tone and tenor of your reply.

    [Reply]

    rajiv Reply:

    You wouldn’t be asking me this question ( “What makes you so certain that Pakistan’s problems have to do with the Islam it is following ?) , if you followed Pak history.
    The process of Islamization of Pakistan is generally considered to have started with the adoption of the “Objective Resolution” by the constituent assembly on March 12, 1949, less than six months after the death of Jinnah. and put on steroids under Zia-Ul-Haq.
    Forget Hindus, who in a span of 60 years have been reduced from 20% to 1 % of the population , the state cannot even tolerate a sect of Islam, whose some thoughts may be at variance with majority Islam.

    [Reply]

    Mahesh Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Let me repeat the other part of my question that you chose to omit – perhaps by oversight – from your response :
    ” Care to explain what makes you so pious in discounting the politcs and related power structure ?”
    In case you missed the point – proverbial Gorilla in the room here is not the form of Islam practised, it is the Political situation (we could specifically indict the Defence Establishment and U.S. obsession of War on Terror , but then that would distract from the topic under discussion).
    IMO, the religious (actually communal) extremism that we witness has mostly been subservient to the dominant ruling class interests. Nothing unusual here – typical ruling class behavior.
    - Mahesh.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Usman,
    Does the state have a right to define who is Muslim, Hindu, Sikh etc ?

    Is that state or anyone’s business ?

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    When its been tagged as Islamic Pakistan or Jewish Israel, things are different I suppose. Would agree with you state should be neutral and unbiased. NONE of state’s business (an upfront answer).

    Rajiv Reply:

    Thanks for the answer.

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Oh Thank You Mr Mahesh. I believe its the beauty inside you and nothing special in me.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Usman,
    Please don’t play with words. All I am asking you NOW is to declare in honesty that-
    “Hinduism and Islam are two DIFFERENT ways to achieve SAME GOD”..

    Can you commit atleast this SHIRK?

    I appeal all muslims and xtians to endorse this statements. The hindus too need re-assurance from minorities about keeping India secular. It is not the duty of ONLY hindus to keep India secular.
    You too have equal responsibility.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Rajeev,

    In the simplest form of words put together in sentence I would excuse from making such remark. Not because I’m being biased and prejudice about my religion Islam is superior but because I have absolute zero depth knowledge about Hindu dharam. So i cannot jump to a conclusion that Hinduism and Islam are two different ways to achieve same God. It requires a lot of indepth study of philosophy & comparative study to have a final go. My apologies.
    I believe Dr Khan has already made a comment below to satisfy your query.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Usman,
    All I can say is that this is your loss for being a pakistani.

    No Indian muslim will ever reply the way you have. You don’t have to do a comparative study of religions to state that “GOD is ONE and all religions are different ways to reach him/her”.

    If there is god then it has to be “ONE GOD”.

    I don’t think being a pakistani you can ever understand what secularism means.
    Thanks for your views.

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Okay! let time decide who is at losing end. By the thank you as well for exchange of views.

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    @ Rajeev,
    I wish we could have disengaged in a much more better way. You on the other hand are hell bent upon proving secularism as the last option standing and only hindus exhibit that where as i take a stance irrespective what faith you adhere we should not cross limits and kill humanity to prove who is superior and inferior. Will continue to exhibit religious tolerance and respect irrespective I’m at the losing end.

  • http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Rajeev,
    Followed your frustration and anger (with Muslims in particular) with interest. Well let’s see how all this started, one Azhar (who by all stretch of imagination is a Pakistani) calls Narender Modi a terrorist. Your reaction was immediate and to an extent predictable- hit below the belt, call names to the Prophet. You then go ballistic and call names to everyone who tries to bring in any sanity to the discussion and I may mention that quite surprisingly Mr. Usman and Ms. Marvi (from their side) stand out in trying to bring sanity (of course from “our” side only Mahesh could add some wisdom). I repeat what I have been writing on this blog before as well: Why do you think that Narender Modi is the messiah of Hindus? To me he is the man under whose rein 58 Kar Sevaks were burnt alive in Godhra. Who is responsible for failure of administration which took place at Godhra on that fateful day and subsequently in the whole of Gujarat? How can he represent a tolerant and beautiful religion like Hinduism? I fail to understand.
    As for your comments on equality between Islam and Hinduism, I hope you know the concepts of esoteric elements in Sufism, the most sober and affectionate form of Islam which fortunately prospered in this part of the world (also partly because of the tolerant Hindu philosophy which helped in its growth and establishment). There is no doubt that like you I am also very angry at the rabid, ferocious form of Islam which is represented by the Taliban or for that matter the strict form of Wahabi Islam of Saudi Arabia. Seeing the responses from Mr. Usman and Mrs.Marvi, I am sure that they too are very unhappy over whatever is going on in Pakistan in the names of Islam.
    And yes Islam, Hiduism, Sikhism, Christianity are all different ways to reach god…..you at least got this one correct Rajeev! How can my god be superior to yours or vice versa? Finally you tend to base all arguments on “one sided secularism”. My friend the simple thing is that either we are secular or we are not. There is no one sided or two sided secularism. A crude analogy to this is that either a lady is pregnant or not; she can’t be partially pregnant!
    Hope you would understand what I meant. I would look forth to your comments. Sorry for the lengthy comment.
    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shah Alam,
    As far as Narendra Modi is concerned, he is being investigated for his involvement/non-involvement in riots. He is no prophet of Hindus. The hindus tend to support people like him as reaction to rabid muslim communalism. Do you know just few days back, he suppressed potential riot in Ahmedabad? You know who wanted to start the riot..MUSLIMS..They killed a hindu in broad daylight. Our media suppressed the whole thing..I guess rightly.

    As far as your prophet is concerned, do not expect us to have same kind of respect for him as you do. As per history, he did indulge in large scale violence, did take slave women, had sex with 9 year old girl. There are thousands of ex-muslims talking about Mohammad’s real character. I do not consider him anywhere close to Buddha.

    Howver I have great respect for Sufis as I find them best fusion of good hindu and muslim practices. We belong to the family of Naqshbandi Sufis. I’d have never uttered any disrespectful word about Islam and Prophet, had I not seen more and more people following deobandi (Wahabi) ideology. There is absolutely no tolerance left in muslims.

    There are millions of good-hearted muslims like you but because of lack of freedom in Islam, you people live in perpetual fear of Islamic hardliners. There is a silent MINORITY in muslim community who knows the truth about ISlamic terror but for the fear of being killed by fundoos, you choose silence over truth.

    Yes, there is one sided secularism in India. The hindus are expected to show respect for all the religions but minorities are exempt from such expectations. It’s a fact and if you ignore this, I’ll say you are not honest enough. Ever heard of fake pregnancy…that’s is what Indian secularism is.

    [Reply]

    Shah Alam Khan Reply:

    Dear Rajeev,
    Thanks for responding to my comments. Well, I cannot argue with you on something which I (and the world) don’t know- the suppressed riot in Ahmadabad. If a Hindu was killed in broad daylight (as you mentioned) it’s a matter of shame not only for Muslims but for all those who adore humanity. You are free to give a clean chit to Modi, I am not so generous. I consider him a tyrant who ran amok on INDIANS (not Muslims) in 2002. Yes, the law should take its course but we all know how long it takes in our country……I am ready to wait.
    The prophet and the rhetoric against him is your choice. I never compared him to Buddha. Leaving aside faith, history will judge him for all to see. Unfortunately I am not a learned Islamic scholar so can’t argue beyond this.
    Your comments on lack of freedom in Islam are something interesting. Yes, there is no freedom for blasphemy in Islam and I am pretty sure there is no room for blasphemy in any religion. We all know what happens in Ireland when blasphemous anti-catholic remarks appear on walls of Churches. As for speaking against the tyrants of Islam like the Talibanis, there are many Muslims and secular forum which are working day in and day out against them. I have also written as much as I can in my busy schedule at AIIMS and honestly hope that it all makes some difference somewhere.
    Thanks for calling me “good”. I am pleasantly surprised at knowing your roots. Sufism, as you said, is the corner stone of India’s secular credentials. I am sure its evolution in India has been the hard work of both the Muslims and Hindus.
    Well, I do not agree with your remarks on fake secularism. Probably you are talking about Muslim appeasement which I agree is a political problem in the country. But has such appeasement done any good? Genuinely Rajeev, is there ANY difference between a poor Hindu and a poor Muslim in this country? When being ridden in a cycle-rickshaw in a small Indian city, ask the name of the rickshaw puller, he will be a Chintu, Monu, Pappu or Babloo. Try to guess his religion, my friend you will fail to judge because poverty occludes everything…….everything which is called identity in this so called global world.
    Finally you mentioned, “the Hindus are expected to show respect for all the religions….”, Rajeev Hindus are not expected, they do this out of their intrinsic nature. The values of Hinduism are intrinsically secular. It’s not fake pregnancy, the child was born thousands of years back; unfortunately there are attempts to kill off this child and this I feel should be salvaged at all costs.
    Good to be in discourse with you.
    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Akash Reply:

    Shah alam Jee,
    Rajeev has suffered some traumatic events in his personal life due to which he is so much against Muslims. His mashuqa ran away with some Rustam Pehelwan..

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shah Alam,
    I am no one to give clean chit to Modi or anyone else..that is the work of seculars in India who act as complainant, prosecutor, Jury and Judge all at the same time.

    If you remember correctly, dozens of temple were demolished in retaliation of Babri demolition in Pakistan, Bangladesh and also in some parts of India. Most of the seculars don’t want to talk about muslim retaliation but keep talking about Babri. You see, hindus are expected here to keep quite and be on defensive.

    Now lets talk about Godhra train burning where 57 hindus died. The hindus rightly or wrongly retaliated…but our secular now just keep talking about retaliations. There have been attempts to give clean chits to muslims who did Godhra..Again, hindus are expected to feel guilty and be on defensive.

    As far as freedom of blasphemy is concerned, dharmic religions are quite different than semitic. You can say anything against hindu god(s), curese Buddha and get away with. No one can behead you. The religion of Islam is yet to achieve maturity to allow free flow of thoughts. Islam is actually not a religion but a charade in the name of religion. It is all about politics, real estate and domination. It is arabic tribalism bundled with some ritualism enforced on 1.5 billion people. You are afraid to speak againt it because you know you may get killed..This fear keeps you muslim for life..

    Lastly Akash i.e. anakali used to be my Mashuka who ran away with Saleem.

    mayamani Reply:

    sharmaji i am new, please post this

    rajeev,
    i usually agree with you and liked ur replies on the onesided secularism which is understating that in india secularism is actuaally minority communalism for votebank.

    but i cant believe u are justfying the hiding of facts about hindu victims especially when they talk about a 8 year 2002 old riot for political reasons…by so called
    media who always blame hindus and hype it and even lie, and hide facts as part of a conspiracy . do u know how unfair this is…..are muslim lives only imporant and not hindus in kashmir and godhra train….or in hyderabad riots whre only hindus were killed by muslims……..

    and when they retaliate in frustration because seculars are busy defending even people like sorabuddin only because they rmuslims instead of innocent hindus killed only because they r hindus…. u justify that….the same thing happens in 2002 and all riots, when hindus die it is fine…..but wehn muslims do only after hindus retaliate in frustration, hell frezeth over
    and they will remidn u about gujarat only post godhra for ever and they will hide kashmir and godhra train and other riots like ahmedabad last week…looks like this is an islamic country with sharia whre hindus have no value…shame on you rajeev……it is right not to report when hindus are killed by muslims but media can shout about gujarat post godhra 2000 muslims dead for ever….and even that 2000 factual number is discrepant with official #s

    so the whole world thinks hindus enjoy killing muslims for fun when kashmiri hindus are out of kashmir and gujarati muslims prefer gujarat to secular paradise bengal ask qutbuddin the psoter boy of media…..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mayamani,
    I share your frustration but as a hindu we are not expected to express our anger because anger, frustrations and retaliations are sole birthright of muslims and christians.

    Akash Reply:

    Rajeev,
    If, as you claim that you belong to Naqshbandi Sufis, it surprises me even more that you would blame the Prophet for something(Wahabis) that happened 900 years after this death. It’s like blaming Buddha for brutal suppression of Tamils by the Sinhalese. This logic simply doesn’t make sense. There are disputes about the Prophet’s life. No one denies it. But, you have to see it from the point of view of more than a billion followers. Surely a faith or an idea that has existed for such a long time and made such a difference to so many lives over centuries, that has as its central tenet a love for its Prophet, must have a lot of intrinsic merit to it. No one can know for sure how many people died in his wars or how old his youngest wife was. The Hadiths are known to be primarily sourced from Aisha, his youngest wife, who had such deep respect for him. Above all, what can be gained from gratuitous abuse of the Prophet. Most of the Prophets have had some thing goofy about their lives and in all fairness, Muhammad never claimed he was god or anything like that. So, lets go beyond the infantile nit picking about his life. Let’s move on and debate things in the current context.

    @Shah Alam Jee,
    “Yes, there is no freedom for blasphemy in Islam and I am pretty sure there is no room for blasphemy in any religion”
    I think that is a rather broad generalization. There are faiths where there is a little bit of room for blasphemy, howsoever you define it. In fact, blasphemy is largely tied to the Judeo-Christian faith. In the current times, it seems that Muslims have taken a sole ownership of that word. It’s sad but that is what it is.

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  • Rajiv

    @Dr Shah Alam,

    I am jumping in.

    You wrote
    “is there ANY difference between a poor Hindu and a poor Muslim in this country? When being ridden in a cycle-rickshaw in a small Indian city, ask the name of the rickshaw puller, he will be a Chintu, Monu, Pappu or Babloo. Try to guess his religion, my friend you will fail to judge because poverty occludes everything……

    So true. I have so far not found any thing to disagree with you.
    The problem , usually is not with the religions, but the interpretation and practice of it. For example, The religion as practiced in Turkey and the religion practiced by the state of Pakistan, may have the same name, but not much else.
    In India, use of religion for political purposes, by political parties on both sides, has a very corrupting influence on our democracy and the media often fails to show both sides of the picture.

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    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Rajiv,
    Well said Rajiv and Dr Alam. Hope the debate on this blog is always of such high quality. Pl keep it up for it will stimulate many others including yours truly.

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  • http://- Rajeev

    I am sad that not a single muslim/christian dared say “God is one and all religions are diff. ways to reach same god”.

    I have proved my point. It is only hindu who is truly secular and all other are rank communals.

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    Shah Alam Khan Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    Well Rajeev I had only heard not seen that hatred makes a man blind. If you read my comments and still remark what you have said, I am saddened. I suggest read my comments again till you see what is written there in black and white: (I quote for your convenience)
    “And yes Islam, Hiduism, Sikhism, Christianity are all different ways to reach god…..you at least got this one correct Rajeev!”
    Hope you read comments without a jaundiced vision.
    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, India

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Shah Alam Sahib,
    You are in minority. See no one else agreed with me on religious equality.
    One person can not change my perception of muslim communalism.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Rajeev,
    Please open up your horizons. If you’ll try you’d find hundreds of thousands of good, well meaning people in all communities. Dr Alam’s advise to you is valid and has been tendered in good faith.

  • http://- Rajeev

    Please read this interview with Sadia Dehlvi. Her concerns are identical to mine.
    http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/jun/01/slide-show-1-interview-with-sadia-dehlvi-on-sufism.htm

    However I do not agree with her views on Mohammad.

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  • http://- Rajeev

    To all those who hold Mohammad in respect, I’d appreciate them to read more on him.
    He obviously had some good qualities but he also had darker side.

    Let me ask those who say nothing should be said against Mohammad, will you allow 59 year old man to bed with 6 or 9 or 13 year old girl and then regard him a great soul?

    If a father eyes his daughter-in-law and forces son (adopted or real) to divorce his wife so that old man can sleep with her, will you call that old man great soul or lecher?

    If an old man takes 8 wifes in quick succession after the death of 1st wife with whom he lived for all his life, will you not call him sex maniac?

    This is just one side of so-called great man…There is another side of loot, rape and murder.

    Evenif I believe in Sufi traditions, I can not condone acts of Mohammad. I can not be a blind follower. I believe in tolerance and love taught by sufi saints and it has got nothing to do with true Islam as practiced by Deobandis.

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    Rajiv Reply:

    @Rajeev,
    Religious beliefs are faith based. Obviosuly, Muslims will disagree with your description of prophets life. So I think, its not useful to question religious beliefs, as long as they are personal and no one is trying to thrust them on others.

    So the debate should focus on protecting pluralism, diversity and respecting different religious thoughts.

    So , individuals of any religion or sect should have personal freedom to define there own view of life and God and it should not be state’s role to define it.
    The state should concentrate oin cleaing the public places and providing security, education and general welfare for all humans.

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    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    The two-way respect is absolute must for peace in a country like ours. I am all for development, security, health, education etc. but these should be available to all without religious/casteist strings attached to it.

    We have to make religion irrelevant in our public life but we need other side on board as well.
    The muslims and christians nurse a deep hatred for hindus and consider us pagan and heathen. This can not be tolerated anymore.

    I am entitled to show disrespect to their faiths if they refuse to reciprocate respect to my faith.

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  • Usman Chaudhry

    Hello Dr Anand,

    Sorry to keep you waiting and breaking the rythem to your queries.

    Indeed Dr Abdus Salam was a brilliant mind that Pakistan had disowned and was from this sect. Many others as well besides him were very patriotic and would have never thought of a time to come when they would be subject to political and religious hate. What happend and where things started to turn away is long story. Would try to make it brief added with litte background.

    Ahmadiya sect follow the teachings of religious cleric Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadyani who hailed from district Gurdaspur of East Punjab, India. Mirza claimed to be follower of Muhammad (a muslim) as well as he had believe that he is God’s choosen one, upon whom revelations are bestowed. Infact he claimed himself to be form of Muhammad, Muhammad being his form in 670 AD, Jesus Christ and himself a prophet/massiha/saviour for all humans. Apparently, it seems like a new religion/doctrine under a new tag. But it wasn’t, the name choosen by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was ‘Islam’ and that whosoever will not believe me will rot in hell.

    Background: By definition a muslim is 1) Who believes there is one God and all soverignity belongs to him. 2) Declares that Muhammad is the messenger of God and is the last of all and there will be no messenger after him.

    There is a clear cut violation of second part. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had claimed on separate occasions that is a muslim in contradiction of claim that Muhammad was me that existed 1400 yrs back & also that he is a new messenger.

    There were numerous religious rebutals between this sect and muslims and even christians. Many of his followers had accepted Islam/Christianity because of dubious claims. In secular British India where all are alike and religion is a private matter things never tolled to official level. Sunni/Shia and Wahabis had declared this sect and its followers as non-muslims. After partition in 1947, in Islamic Pakistan there was growing pressure from mainstream religious parties to officially declare Ahmediya community as non-muslims. Things went high when finally in 1974 the then PM Z A Bhutto had declared Ahmadiya community as non-muslims and under military dictator Gen Zia things were dealt more with iron hand. Making law violation if Ahmediya would declare their identity as muslims and would also reveal their worship place as mosque.

    But what happened on 28 May is indeed a massacare of innocent lives. Despite how different their ideology is that can be dealt on a forum and demands condemnation in a civilized manner but not the way at the hands of bunch of extremists outlaws (may God rot them in hell). That is a sad story. They are good and respectable part of society and by all means part of Pakistan.

    Regards,
    Usman

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    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Thanks Usman Saheb for your enlightening me on this subject. But I do feel sorry for Professor Abdus Salam, who besides being belonging to our profession of teaching and research was also the pride of the subcontinent. He was the only Muslim Nobel Lauraeate (Physics, 1979). It is specially more painful that his grave was defaced by removing “Muslim” from the engraved “First Muslim Nobel Laureate” because of the order of a local magistrate. After removing “Muslim, the engraved matter had little meaning.
    Thanks
    BNA

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