Hang Kasab, keep Afzal Guru alive in jail



I’m no supporter of capital punishment. But honestly speaking, I haven’t, regardless of my reservations against the dictum of an eye for an eye, been able to bring myself around to pleading lesser punishment for Ajmal Kasab.

I think the Indian State has been quite fair in ensuring for him the defense he needed in his trial for waging a war against our country— and for carrying out pre-meditated wanton killings. In his pursuit, he butchered innocent people of all faiths including Muslims.

Afzal Guru

Our Supreme Court has justified death penalty in the “rarest of rare” cases. Kasab’s crime fits that description. But in his walk to the gallows, he should be afforded the appeals to which he’s entitled under the Law. That will establish before the world the fairness of our judicial system, at once denying Kasab’s Pakistani mentors any opportunity to cry foul.

Many political parties, politicians and activists have demanded that Kasab should be executed at the earliest. Such clamor does not show us in good light. Death for him could only be as early as it’s permitted under the Law. The government must and should do everything to show that it resisted short cuts amounting to denial of judicial redressal even to a man like Kasab whose crimes deserved no mercy.

Ajmal Kasab

But the case of Kasab, a Pakistani brain-washed by the Lashkar-e-Toiba, is different from that of Afzal Guru, an Indian awaiting death in the 2001 terrorist attack on Parliament. The delay in the latter’s execution on account of a pending mercy petition, is the subject of a major political controversy. The debate has gotten revived by reports that the delay was on account of the Delhi CM’s failure to submit her comments on Afzal’s plea.

Be that as it may, I’m of the view that while Kasab should get death at the time determined by law, Afzal should be spared the gallows. That is the only way to keep him from becoming a martyr for the misguided Kashmiri youth.

The logic behind Maqbool Bhatt’s burial in the jail premises on being hanged at Tihar in the 1980s was to deny the separatists a rallying point in the form of his grave. By the same argument, Afzal should be wasted in jail as an ordinary criminal even if it means risking future hijackings for his release.

I’m aware that my stand on the sensitive issue would have very few takers. But I’d request those in disagreement to consider the argument in the context of the times in which we live. The war in Kashmir is as much for the mind space as it is over a disputed territory. And my worry is that by hanging Afzal, we, as a country, might cede a chunk of that space to our adversaries.

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (17 votes, average: 3.59 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...
  • A.M.FAZIL

    Sir,

    I was thoroughly absorbed in your article from the very moment I began reading it. As I went on I was so curious to know how you would conclude it. Nothing unexpected I found in the end. Your thoughts are full of magnanimity and they are so humane.But,sir, why should we be magnanimous towards these hardcore terrorists? They pose threat to our nation’s security, they pave seeds of hatred in young minds and they divide people in the name of religion.should they be left unpunished?

    With all the respect towards you,I may tell you that I totally disagree with your views expressed in this article .

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Fazil,
    Good points.

    Mr Sharma’s argument is too simplistic. Is the Kashmir problem there because of Maqbool Bhat’s punishement ? Wiil Syed Geelani or Pakistan, be any more reasonable on Kashmir , if Maqbool Bhat was not hanged ?
    But even more, should our judiciary be subservient to short term political considerations ?

    The worst and most shameful episodes of the Indian state are
    1. Releasing prisoners when Kashmir CM’s daughter was kidnapped.
    2. Releasing hard-core terrorists when Indian airlines was hijacked.

    Let us not add to that list of shameful episodes.
    The impartial judges, after weighing all evidense, have given out the punishment.
    Its the callous political considerations of the unethical political parties who have crafted a political mess out of it.

    [Reply]

    Arun John Singh Reply:

    Mr. A.M.FAZIL, I agree totaly with you.

    [Reply]

  • Ryan Paul

    Vinodji,

    After reading this blog, I am sure in your childhood you must have been a very very naughty kid full of pranks who did not feel shy from pulling fast ones on his neighbors. You really know how to instigate your readers and drive them to the wall ! Now you will be inundated with hundreds of counter responses. That’s all I can say.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Mr.Sharma,
    I agree with you on Kasab however I don’t think he deserves course of law (appeals in higher courts and mercy petitions) as he is a foreign terrorist akin to foreign soldier caught figting war against India. As he is a terrorist, he can not be regarded as POW and as he is pakistani, he should not get privileges given to Indian such as appeal etc.

    As far as Afzal Guru is concerned, sending him to the gallows is an easier optiona and we may end up giving another excuse to kashmiri muslims to start another cycle of terror. The best thing is to put him behind bars for whole life with third degree torture everyday.

    [Reply]

  • Vikram

    Kasab/Afzal should hang immediately to prevent any further loss of life on their behalf. I dont buy that argument of ‘avoid making him a matyr’. The people who are brainwashed into hating India and Indians do not need only this pretext to do so. The people who support Afzal are out to kill me/us as far as I am concerned. So why do we care about them anyway !!! But on the other hand by getting rid of this vermin soon we will at least be safegaurding possible loss of life of our fellow citizens/soldiers. So do I please my enemy or protect my friends ? No brainer for me. I am sick and tired of us taking the moral high ground and paying for it dearly all the time. I want to badly hurt these bas&*rds.

    [Reply]

  • Jai

    Yeah I agree fully that Kasab should not be spared a death by hanging while If Afzal Guru’s mercy petition is considered by President and his capital punishment is turned into life imprisonment I am OK with it.
    Mumbai terror attacks can not be passed off as another terror attack but this attack is represenataive of all the terrorist activities undertaken by Pakistan based terror outfits fully backed by the people who control Pakistan. Never in the history of terrorism the evidence were so irrefutable and it is a test case for Pakistan’s so called commitment to fight terror. India had put the most reasonable demand that the masterminds of 26/11 must be brought to justice under Pakistani laws. But Pakistan doesn’t even want to do this much. No other country in this world worth its name on this planet would have tolerated attacks of this magnitude coming from across its border. But India did for some reason I don’t know why but may be that was right thing to do. After scaling down so much even the bare minimum is not being done by Pakistan which is very unfortunate. Not talking to Pakistan was the least destructive and a peaceful way of exerting some pressure but now that is also gone. My rage remains unabated and i would deadly oppose any dialogue with the country that shows no remorse at all instead coming out with outragoeus arguments.

    So yes Hang Kasab but real Kasabs sitting in Pakistan are waiting to mount another attack.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ————————————————————————–
    ISI, Pak Charade and 26/11
    ————————————————————————-

    Daood Gilani alias Headley, who has confessed in US court, has submitted documented evidense of his contacts with Pak handlers who organized 26/11, including serving Pak army officers and LeT leadership.

    So why is Pak not interested in Daood’s testimony ? Why is Pak not using Daood’s testimony in US courts to nail the Pak handlers ???

    The Pak charade and duplicity is so brazen and India’s silence on it equally shameless.

    Read on here for more from a lead article by Parveen Swami in Hindu.

    http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article431693.ece

    Waqas Ahmad was among the hundreds of Lahore cricket fans who crossed the Wagah border five years ago to watch their country play India in New Delhi. The 2005 India-Pakistan series had been advertised as a historic event; the embodiment of hope that a new era of peace was about to dawn on South Asia. For most of the Lahore fans, the long journey was worth it: Pakistan registered a 159-run victory at the Feroz Shah Kotla stadium before tens of thousands of spectators, among them Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Pervez Musharraf.

    But Ahmad didn’t make the match — and never caught the train home. The story of the cricket fan who disappeared, improbably enough, holds out disturbing new evidence that Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate might have played a direct role guiding the Lashkar-e-Taiba’s murderous, November 2008 attack on Mumbai.

    LeT jihadist Mohammad Ajmal Amir Kasab’s conviction by a Mumbai court this month has been hailed as bringing a closure, or at least something resembling it, to the kin of 164 people who were killed and the 308 injured in the carnage. Later this month, an anti-terrorism court in Rawalpindi will begin hearing prosecution arguments against seven men Pakistan’s Federal Investigations Agency says helped to finance, facilitate and execute the attacks. It is unclear just when Judge Malik Akram Awan will deliver his verdict but many hope his judgment will not just serve justice but also help the fraught relationship between the two countries.

    What it almost certainly won’t do is reveal who engineered the carnage and why.

    The Uttar Pradesh police located Ahmad last summer at Bithoor on the outskirts of Kanpur. Neighbours knew him as Rajesh Kumar. Ahmad had obtained a driving licence and a voter-identification card to support his ‘fiction,’ the term spies use for their cover-identities. Investigators allege that Ahmad was a covert ISI operative, tasked with recording the movements of Indian military units. A grade X dropout, the 25-year old Waqas was recruited by the ISI, say the police. Following a year of training in spycraft, he was despatched to watch out for military movements across northern and western India.

    For months, no one outside the intelligence community in New Delhi — and few within it — paid attention to Ahmad’s story. He was, after all, a bit actor in the ISI’s India operations. This spring, though, after the United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigations began to share details of the interrogation of Pakistani-American jihadist David Coleman Headley, Ahmad’s story gathered a startling new significance. The phone number he used to contact his handlers for funds, it turned out, was among those Headley had used to speak with three serving Pakistan Army personnel who, he told the FBI, had helped organise his mission to carry out the reconnaissance that would lead the Lashkar’s assault team to its targets in Mumbai.

    Islamabad reacted with anger to media accounts of Headley’s claims about the ISI. But the case of the Kanpur spy suggests that a great part of the truth about Mumbai is either unknown to, or is being hidden from, Pakistan’s civilian government.

    Gaping holes
    Early last year, after weeks of denying that its nationals had any role in Mumbai, the Pakistan government finally ordered its Federal Investigation Agency to act. The Lashkar’s second-in-command, Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi, is now being tried in Rawalpindi along with the organisation’s head of operations targeting India, Mazhar Iqbal; the head of the communication cell who facilitated the Mumbai operation, Abdul Wajid; and Karachi-based cadre Hammad Amin Sadiq and Shahid Riaz Jamil. In July last, the FIA also held Jamil Ahmad and Muhammad Younis Anjum, who it says helped organise funds and communications for the attack.

    But ever since the FBI charged Headley with having conducted the reconnaissance operation in Mumbai, doubts have mounted on the integrity of the investigation in Pakistan. In February, Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram bluntly charged Pakistan with “hiding the real culprits.”

    Perhaps the most important gap in Pakistan’s investigation is the absence of any detail of just who carried out pre-attack reconnaissance — and on whose orders. Kasab told the Mumbai police that the assault team was shown detailed videotape of the targets. Headley, the FBI’s investigation shows, harvested that footage. His operation, however, finds no mention in the trial now under way in Rawalpindi. Nor was it mentioned in a July 2009 dossier handed over to India by Pakistan. The dossier stated the suspects the FIA had arrested “admitted their guilt and their contribution in planning, preparation, financing, arranging boats, logistics, training, facilitating and launching.” Presumably, the FIA would have asked them questions on the reconnaissance issue — but chose not to share its findings with India.

    From Headley’s testimony to the FBI, it is evident that he was not the first Lashkar operative engaged to undertake reconnaissance in Mumbai. Before his first, September 2006 visit to India, Headley was shown a cardboard mock-up of the Taj Mahal Hotel and asked to conduct surveillance on its second floor, which, among other things, housed the closed-circuit television. Early on during the November 26, 2008 strikes, the attackers were able to locate the room and destroy the surveillance system — a move which successfully made efforts to track their movements in the hotel difficult.

    In an April 13, 2009 questionnaire to investigators in India, the FIA sought details of the alleged Lashkar operatives, Fahim Arshad Ansari and Sabahuddin Ahmed. No further requests for information on the two men followed. First held in February 2008 on charges of facilitating multiple terrorist operations, the two men have since been cleared of the Mumbai-related crimes. Likely, the FIA knew they were innocent all along. Had the U.S. not held Headley, the truth might never have emerged.

    The second major gap in the FIA investigation is this: it tells us next to nothing about Lashkar commanders who used satellite phone connections and voice-over-Internet connections from a still-undetermined location in Pakistan. FIA analysts, the July dossier states, determined that three suspects — Riaz, Sadiq and the still-fugitive Mohammad Amjad Khan — were in contact with one another, and with an unidentified cellphone number, through the attacks. The assault team also called the unidentified number from a satellite phone. Jamil Ahmad and Anjum, the FIA says, helped to acquire this satellite phone. But the FIA is yet to tell the world who used the unidentified number, who was in the control room and where it was.

    By the FIA’s account, the communication cell was controlled by Mazhar Iqbal, using the code-name ‘Zarar Shah.’ Pakistan has, however, refused to give India voice samples which would establish whether Iqbal was indeed among the individuals guiding the assault team. The Indian authorities have also been denied photographs of Wajid, which would allow the Mumbai police to confirm his identity. Nor has the FIA offered information on a Hindi-speaking suspect, likely an Indian national, who helped to guide the attack.

    Thirdly, the FIA investigation offers little insight into the training of the assault team. The July dossier offers no detailed account of the camps in Pakistan-administered Kashmir and Lahore where the team was trained. Nor has the FIA been able to arrest other jihadists who trained with the group. Pakistan claims it has been unable to locate the key Lashkar operative,Muzammil Bhat, who is alleged by the Mumbai police to have overseen the training of the group. But in December 2009, journalists Adnan Khan and Michael Petrou, reporting for the Canadian magazine, Macleans, located Bhat at a Lashkar facility near Muzaffarabad. “He was in constant contact with our brothers carrying out the attack,” a Lashkar operative they interviewed said, “[h]e was giving them instructions as the operation progressed.”

    Finally, Pakistan’s July 2009 dossier dealt at some length with the question who financed the attacks — but the FIA has chosen not to prosecute most of those who put up the cash. Sadiq and Jamil Riaz, the FIA found, had admitted to having opened accounts with the Mehran Cooperative Bank and the Allied Bank branches in Karachi. The FIA investigators found, the dossier states, “that various LeT activists and office-bearers transferred funds to their account from Khanewal, Gujranwala, Multan, etc., for terrorist activities and operations in Mumbai.” None of those office-bearers has, however, been charged with this crime.

    Last week, the former Indian diplomat, Chinmaya Gharekhan, called on the government to test Pakistan’s commitment to act against anti-India terrorists by using “quantifiable criteria which can be spelt out.” Pakistan’s willingness to fill the gaping holes in its investigation will clearly be key to these criteria. Early this year, Mumbai authorities quietly buried the bodies of the nine Lashkar jihadists, who were killed during the attacks, after months of waiting for Pakistan to reclaim them. Eighteen months after the carnage, the FIA has identified just three of those men: Mohammad Altaf, Imran Babar, and Nasir Ahmad. Nothing could better illustrate Pakistan’s disinclination to discover the truth about Mumbai.

    [Reply]

  • Nikhil

    Vinod,

    You want the law to prevail when it comes to Kasab but let Afzal Guru stay alive in violation of the law. What a paradox! In the case of Afzal Guru, you are mixing law of the land with counter insurgency in Kashmir.

    The inspiration to be martyr in the world of jihad is porous and often transferable. Even if Afzal Guru fails to be a martyr in the eyes of wannabe jihadis, the masterminds can invoke the spirit of ummah and use the heroic deaths of the terrorists in far way lands such as Afghanistan, Palestine or Europe. Let us implement the verdicts given by our courts for all terrorists or criminals.

    [Reply]

  • Atul8

    Dear Vinod,

    Now a days Martyrs are created by careful communications strategies, and, sadly,by the media becoming an unwitting accomplice in cases like Kasab / Guru.

    As a country, we cannot prevent certain groups from creating their own martyrs, but we can certainly send a message out that harming innocent people in the name of a cause will not be tolerated.

    I have heard advocates against capital punishment stating that we should punish the cause, not the effect, and it is God’s right to take lives, not humans.

    Perhaps, sometimes we should let our emotional intellect rest in the closet. After all, even in the game of chess, the pawns are the first ones to be sacrificed.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ Vinod

    please tell why the heck should we not execute Afzal Guru?? so that there is another hostage incident where the terrorists demand the release of one of their members in return of the hostages?!! any terrorist captured by the security forces should be executed as fast as possible after the legal procedures.

    Mr Sharma. by the way you lack the capability of practical thinking and logical approach. no wonder we have leaders like you who have doomed this nation

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    i feel mr Sharma has sympathy for the Muslim terrorists of India origin. if the Kashmiri youth feels he is a martyr , its nothing new and is very obvious. the solution s to rule over Kashmir with an iron fist.
    this nation has been using foolish and peaceful tactics ( as suggested by Mr Sharma) to handle Muslim terror. thats the reason we are losers at this game.

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    when so many people go to bed on hungry stomach what is the rational behind spending the tax payers money in feeding these b-a-stards ?

    thanks,
    yash

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Vinod Sharma is a very intelligent person.
    But unfortunately he is a Dhimmi.

    Dhimmi’s cannot think and act what is in their best interests.
    They can only bend in front of islam and give up their own self-interests.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Sam,
    I luv walking to my own drumbeats. And bend I don’t before anyone including zealots like you. Much as you may want, Hinduism does not provide for excommunication. So I there I am, whatever you
    may want to call me.

    Sam Reply:

    Where did i say, Hinduism provides or does not provide excommunication.
    Nor for that matter if you are ex-communicated.
    (I do not think you read my posting carefully.)

    Please understand the concept of Dhimmi in Islam.

    There is a article today about Dhimmi status of Coptic Christians in Eqypt and how Islam does not let them build any new churches.
    Remember these are the original people of Egypt, before Arabs/Islam conquered them.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703745904575248301172607696.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion#articleTabs%3Darticle

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @)Paritosh
    Why do you become personal with comments like…”you lack the capacity et al…” Pl read my blog carefully and you’d notice the balance with which I have made my point— factoring in the low sides
    as well of keeping Afzal alive.
    I strongly believe that we must debate such issues in the tradition of a civilised country that we are.

    [Reply]

    Shrey Reply:

    Mr. Sharma,

    I believe there are lot of issues related to the Civic sense in people where we need to focus on; in order to prove or show or feel that we are a civilized country. Showing a lenient approach to dealing with terror or terrorists is for sure not a way to show that we are civilized. I think we have shown that enough by keeping him alive for so long (not to mention fedding him Biryanis); even when the video footages show him clearly holding weapons & firing.

    [Reply]

    neville Reply:

    vinod says…….I luv walking to my own drumbeats. And bend I don’t before anyone including zealots like you. Much as you may want, Hinduism does not provide for excommunication. So I there I am, whatever you may want to call me.

    yeah we have seen how u guys crawl before sonia and rahul and even musharff in agra when he called terrorists freedom fighters…..

    u think we believe the bombast here when we don not even believe the facts in your reporting…yeah u hid hindus killed in train burning at godhra..and hidnus dead in hyderabad riots and their suffering in bareili riots…..

    u do not even abide by the ethic and integrity of journalism…….giving it a bad name…..

    ur words are as much of a lie as ur congress talking about aam admi and garibi hatao 40 yaers ago….. and yeah mmsing promised in 100 days prices will be controlled…and u media slyly forget it for the crumbs u get fed by ur congress……and what about that claim they were acting on swiss bank loot before elections…….

    even sec 420 frauds r better than cheats who betray the trust of their own customers/ raeders
    like u english media do hiding ur real corrupt and antinational agenda….

    I wil use ur brave post as toilet paper to clean up my dog’s excreta but he objected to it because he is not a fraud and a cheat who deceives those who give him alivelihood……like u do ur raeders….

    now let us see u bend in fear and censor this and then lecture about opinions and free speech……with that disgusting holier than thou look ……

    your other end could do better ….give it a try….it may emit less disgusting hot air…..

    [Reply]

  • Ankit

    Mr Sharma, I saw you last night on IBN and was really amused. You have dropped all pretense of being a journalist and have devolved into a full time Congress propagandists. Congratulations!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Mr Ankit,
    And from your response it is evident that you are a psy-war activist of the bjp/rss.

    [Reply]

    Ankit Reply:

    No it is not evident from reply since I did not even mention the bjp or the rss. But then, I would be a fool to expect any kind of reasoning from partisan hacks like you. I do not know if you are aware that everyday people like me do not need to take sides of political parties to earn our bread and butter.

    I think Rajeev is right, at least Mr. Sharma is out in the open battling for his party and not trying to defraud people under the cover of journalism.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ankit,
    I was about to say the same thing. Infact Mr.Sharma did better job of defending Congress compared to Manish Tiwari.
    I am absolyely convinced that Mr.Sharma is on congress payroll.
    But I respect his openness about his bias towards congress, now we know his exact position. He is far better than those journalist who pretend to be neutral.

    [Reply]

  • Indian

    Dear Vinod,

    Two quick points –

    First – Let us do what has to be done and what is right. Let us for once stop trying to analyze psy-ops effects and what the world will think, what pak will think, what U.S. will think, what will happen to mother secularism, etc.

    The SC has convicted both of them. Afzal was involved in attacking the parliament and do remember that many security people died trying to protect the seat of democracy. The killing and attack there was as menacing, as wanton and as barabaric as 26/11. There both, afzal and kasab should be hanged asap.

    Second – I prefer a right of centre kind of a party (admittedly). However, I have no illusion that most of the muslims in India do not care either for kasab or for afzal. They are both terrorists and sometimes we try and over-analyze the response from the muslims. By doing this we push the right thinking indian muslims more in the corner. We should avoid that. Further, and this is important – we should not think that hanging afzal will affect votes (I am not suggesting that you have implied this in your article). We should fundamentally try and believe that most muslims as most hindu would like the afzals and kasabs hanged equally.

    Third – Even if were to take the psy-ops angle into picture (contrary to my point 1 above), perhaps by not hanging afzal first, we give pakistan a talking point which says that India does not follow its own law when it comes to Indians (afzal) and is doing this fast track when its comes to a pakistani (kasab). Thereby, they will start questioning the whole impartiality of our legal system and then make and excuse for their tardy proceedings on ther 26/11 case. Further, they get a diplomatic nuisance value point.

    In any case – I think I would like to go by my first point and I believe strongly in the second.

    My two cents. Thanks!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Indian,
    I see the point you have made. But I don’t see Pakistan questioning as to why a Kashmiri has not been hanged.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Why should any conviction (and criminal) be politicized ?

    Shouldnt the courts and law enforcement be independant of Politics and columnists like you…

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @ Sam
    What does the independence of courts have to do with my freedom to state my view?

    Sam Reply:

    Your time is better spent on things where you can improve the society..

    not create disturbances with useless views and comments and interrupting the legal system (instead of strengthening it).

    Vigilante Reply:

    @Sam,

    You time is better spent away from this blog. Buzz off if you dont like it

  • http://www.hindustantimes.com Sujata Anandan

    Am in total agreement with you, Vinod. No matter how jingoistic those baying for Kasab’s blood get, we cannot afford to be seen as a banana republic or even as a kangaroo court. Even I want kasab to hang but like a firend of mine said: he will still get his jannat, won’t he? Her suggestion: feed him sausages and bacon for breakfast and sorpotel for dinner every Friday from now to when he hangs and deny him the jannat that he seeks by killing so many innocent Indians. Then perhap the Pak terrorists might think twice about invading India. Israelis do it. But can India?

    [Reply]

    Indian Reply:

    Sujata,

    Perhaps I am erring in writing a response to your posting…but nevertheless here it goes.

    India has followed the full course of law as prescribed in our constitution to try and convict kasab. Ditto Afzal. As the consequence of the proceeding if both these killers have to be hanged – we should hang them. Why would anyone thing that we are a banana republic despite following the full course of law and a fair trial? And if these still think that way then too bad, but who cares. Let us just do the right thing and stop worrying about how we are preceived beyond a point.

    [Reply]

    Ashish Reply:

    @Sujata,
    Kasab must hang for what he committed; what do we get by feeding him pig-meat?
    Law and the due process of law, nothing more, nothing less. It is not a personal vendetta that we need to pursue. Will the might of the Indian state be appeased by humiliating a mere foot-soldier?
    And, must we, find a religious motif in the punishment too?
    Did not expect this from you.

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Did you listen to Channel four documentary with live recordings captured on tape ?
    How Kasab (&gang) hate the Kaffirs ?

    Tell me there is no religious angle after listening to it.
    They see their role as a Ghazi, killing idolaters, Kaffirs..

    Do you know they let people away, once they identified themselves as Muslims in the Taj hotel ?

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Sujata,
    Gud to hear from you. Let us let Kasab have the last meals of his choice. I’d rather put him on paranthas (a punjabi favourite) without water.

    [Reply]

    Kumar Reply:

    Mr. Sharma,
    You are a senior journalist and i find it embarassing that you speak from such a defensive mindset. Don’t hang Guru because it will give a rallying point to the Kashmiri separatists! So you say India should treat some terrorists leniently to appease sentiments of certain people who are never going to be pro-India anyway. Rather, i believe, a message should go that the law of the land is supreme and everyone including the government has to bow before it. You are a reflection of an India, which is weak-kneed and soft.

    [Reply]

    Nikhil Reply:

    Sujata and Vinod,

    Please do not mix law of the land with counter insurgency. Any prisoner in India serving life sentence, such as Kasab or Afzal Guru, after spending 14-15 years in prison is eligible to be freed on the grounds of his behavior and with some permissions. The concept of rigorous imprisonment in Indian jails usually means cooking food for inmates where he is exposed to heat for hours. Gone are the days of British Raj where prisoners served rigorous punishment by grinding seeds for oil with no food and little water. Nowadays the prisoners can also enjoy our national holidays when they can step outside their prisons under vigil.

    If Hindustan times is willing to sponsor expenses for Afzal Guru and Kasab in prison, be my guest. We will give them colored T-shirts with HT logo while they bite in to hot paranthas and sarson ka saag.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Nikhil,
    Pl don’t confuse my views with the editorial position of HT. My blog reflects my personal views to express which I have the freedom.
    Goverrnance is a complex game involving overlap — in the instant case— between what the law wills and what’s required for effective countering of terrorism. One can’t always compartmentalise dear.

    [Reply]

    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    I agree with all of your views…Just don’t bring the whole Hindustan Times to be blamed for this…these are just debate involving individuals…Hindustam Times in whole can’t be accounted

    [Reply]

    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    This was for @Nikhil

    Nikhil Reply:

    Dear Arjita and Vinod,

    I stand by my views and my comment. If you are so concerned about protecting personal views from what is published, inserting a disclaimer at the end of the blog will be good start. Besides, since when innocuous comments are seen more damaging than the verbal abuse that is hurled regularly by some on this blog?

    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    @ Nikhil

    I guess you don’t understand the meaning of blog or free voice….the publication doesnot interfere in free voice nor does it instigate so simply blaming hindustan times is mindless…not that I support the views of the blog as I have already said it but then blaming Hindustan Times is pointless….I hope you get the meaning Nikhil…its like blaming the whole school for a child’s tantrums at home which is not related to the school at all…the only connection is that the child studies in the school

    Nikhil Reply:

    Arjita,

    In your enthusiasm to enforce discipline, you’ve missed the woods for the trees. If you cared to ‘read’ my comment you’d find that I’m not blaming HT, however I am making a point that the public exchequer should not be burdened for the whims of the few, especially when the court has given the verdict. My comment, not abuse, is a pointed but natural response to some obtuse views of the blogger.

    I appreciate reading your views – well, a lecture – on the meanings of blog and free voice. It’s special when it comes from some self-appointed moderator. But, in the absence of disclaimer, the views expressed in the blog of a publication are presumed to be an extension to that of the publication.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sujata,
    I think you are crossing the line of religious tolerance when you say that Kasab be fed beef. You sound very much like hardcore republican.

    Evenif he is terrorist, you have no right to trample on his religious beliefs.

    For god’s sake, don’t try to sound politically correct on all issue..You come out as fool.

    [Reply]

  • Praveen Saxena

    I sometimes wonder that these are indeed strange times. When blatant communalism is promoted as secularism and genuine secularism is banished as Communalism. When Nationalism is called Jingoism. When divisiveness is promoted as plurality. When the globally major and numerically larger are given special dispensation and encouraged to keep aloof and the global minority is treated as a Majority which should be restrained .
    So Kasab an illiterate deprived Pakistani , brainwashed into doing deeds which shall supposedly shall bring him salvation , should be hanged, but Afzal Guru a literate Indian well aware of his deeds but who still committed treachery should be allowed to be saved from the gallows ,is strange logic.
    The logic that it shall give a rallying point to Kashmiri Seperatists is spurious. The Seperatists will always be upto their games .
    Or Is this just Mr Sharma’s way of defending the Congress Party’s prevarication on
    the issue and its distorted politics . We have seen such double mouthing of the Congress Party on the Batla House Encounter.

    [Reply]

  • C V R Bharati

    It may be a worthwhile to wait for unravelling of the complete 26/11 conspiracy, identification of all the conspirators / actors who had taken part in it, before executing Kasab. Besides Headley, he is the only other member who has seen some of the trainers, Hndlers, instigators etc., involved in the plot, If we execute him in a hurry, we will lose a vital link which can help in identifying the culprits, whenver they are caught.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Two of the worst and most shameful episodes of the Indian state are
    1. Releasing prisoners when Kashmir CM’s daughter was kidnapped.
    2. Releasing hard-core terrorists when Indian airlines was hijacked to Kandhar by ISI-Terrorists.

    By subverting the judiciary for political reasons, Let us not add to that list of shameful episodes.

    Afzal Guru was found party to attack on the Indian parliament, the highest body in any democratic nation and many service men died defending the attack and protecting some of the same parliamentarians who now want to bestow leniency on ‘terrorist chela Afzal Guru’.

    What a shame.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ vinod

    i have carefully read your blog and hence i have come to a conclusion that you write impractical nonsense in such a way that it seems like a “logical” statement. if the execution of Afzal Guru really creates ten more like him by making him a martyr , then the best option is to torture him to death with utmost profanity ( a method which a pseudo liberal weakling like you wont approve of ).

    cowards like you very conveniently call India as a “civilized” country which actually is a spineless nation of spineless peaceniks like you as rulers/leaders.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Paritosh
    R u on steroids (I am being polite)?

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    i think you are

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    Mr. Sharma I used to admire you (;>??

    [Reply]

  • sushil chadha

    the only reason why mr sharma baulks at the idea of capital sentence for afzal guru is the rather specious plea that the kasmiri youth may be brain washed by his hanging. may i remind mr sharma that the kashmir youth are already brain washed enough and they come out on streets at the drop of a hat. also they are not the main or sole actors in this scene . there are the foreign militants who have stoked militancy in the valley shall we consider their reaction also?
    one of the most serious acts was the attack on parliament and its perpetators have to be punished and the law has to take its course
    may i ask mr sharma a question what if afzal dies in jail will kasmiri youth not see this as another manifestation of the machination of the state and be” brain washed” ( as he says )and he again made a martyr
    the indian state should consider all the implications but not cower to traitors
    in the kasab judgment the judge had pointed out that one reason for giving death sentence to kasabwas to avoid the possibility of future terrorist actions to release himlike the plane hijacking ex kandhar episode afzal hanging will put an end to this fear which if happens will make him a bigger hero tto the misguided youth than his hanging Appeasment ( and even talk of appeasment)is always a loosers game as we all know

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Sushil,
    What you have stated is one aspect of the problem. I dwelt on the other. The effort should be to find a middle way.

    [Reply]

    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    This way India will spend years after years in searching the middle way and never arrive to a solution.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Congress here is playing with fire by insinuating that somehow the death sentence to Afzal Guru is not fair. If that the logic that Congress party is trying to sell then Sonia Gandhi should approach the Supreme court with her defense and let the judges decide.

    Here is what Delhi CM , Sheila Dixit had to say today
    “After holding on to Afzal Guru’s file for nearly three years, the Delhi CM on Tuesday backed the SC decision to hang the Parliament attack convict but with remarks that the implications of law and order should be closely examined while carrying out the execution.”

    Astounding and shameless when a state holds itself hostage to defenders of criminals, who have been convicted by a full judicial process.

    Meanwhile, you should note that as per J&K CM Abdullah, all protests, hooliganism, vandalism in Srinagar or entire J&K is restricted to a small area of 3 police stations.

    [Reply]

  • SKChadha

    Dear Vinod,
    While showing leniency towards attackers on our motherland probably you have forgotten your chants of “Namastey Sada vatsaley matrabhume cha sukham”.

    [Reply]

  • (Dr.) B.N.Anand

    Dear Sharma Saheb

    An appropriate topic to be discussed. Thanks for initiating the discussion.

    Sir, you are also aware about the circumstances under which Maqbool Bhatt was hanged. He was sentenced in 1978 but was hanged in 1984 and that too in a knee jerk reaction to avenge the murder of an Indian diplomat in Birmingham. His mercy petition was kept pending all this time and then decided overnight. Do you believe that the same situation should be repeated in the case of Afzal Guru who was sentenced in 2004 and whose mercy petion is still pending?. Should not our govt. learn lessons from the past? Both Maqbool Bhatt and Azfzal Guru are natives of Srinagar. So the political ramifications will be the same as was the case with Maqbool Bhatt. But why we do not allow the law to take its own course? Now again the same situation seems to be developing when Kasab is likely to be hanged after his mercy petition is likely to be decided out of turn. Why we mix politics with the rule of law? If the mercy petition of Maqbool Bhatt was kept pending for six years because of political reasons, then for the same reasons he should not have been hanged immediately even after the tragic incident of Birmingham.
    I believe the attack on Parliament and the Kargil war are rather much more serious events than the 26/11. Even if one terrorist had sneaked into parliament house, one shudders to think that in one stroke the whole National polity would have been in the danger of being wiped out. Afzal Guru’s mercy petition should have been decided with the same urgency as is likely now with the case of Kasab. Should we wait for something serious to happen to hang Afzal Guru like we did in the case of Maqbool Bhatt?
    It is still not too late. Let the cases of Afzal Guru and Kasab be clubbed together and decided. It is indeed a moment of reckoning for the UPA govt. to either go with law or to treat both the cases on the political level and the decision should not be reversed in any knee jerk reaction.
    May I make it clear that I am neither a member of BJP or VHP or Bajrang dal. As an ordinary citizen of the country I have certain perceptions and views which may differ with your perceptions. But that should not be the reason for you to tie me up with these political outfits as I may be differing from you. That often you do in most cases.
    May I assure you of my highest regards.
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Next time when people like afzal are succesful,
    we can count on Vinod sharma’s to protect and safegaurd India.

    Until then, their hearts are full of mercy as long as common man is killed.

    [Reply]

    sherry Reply:

    poor indians like anand,even if they r saying 2+ 2 = 4,they have toclarify they r not bajrang dal because people like sharma will cneosr them otherwise for speeaking the truth while sharma himself and his secular pakistan freindly gang will agree with pakistan and say 2+2 =5,like he does here with the dont hang afzal line which recives great aapplause in pakistan liek kuldip nayar’s writings in the dawn do.

    no wonder to sharma kuldip nayar is agod.

    keep it up sharma….and yeah i am not bjp guy…..even an idiot or ananimal who counts his offspring know that 2+ 2=4 not 5. but that isthe logic of the congres fed seculars in india,. comparing them to dogs liek gadkari did the yadavs is an insult to dogas as outpouring internet comments did.

    but seculars like sharma agree with yadvs that immigration law against bagladeshis shuld not be enforced and only narendra modi and varun gandhi shuld hang but not afzal……teh indian secularist english media shuld be counted as the
    8th wonder………truly an inexplicable breed….bottomranked school kids who could not do anything competitive so tehy write in english and think language literacy makes thes superior when vernacularsmake it to iits and competitive majors….

    and worse these guys do not ven have the brains to realize they r reflecting their feudal ,colonial elitist mindset…..and this guy calls himself a liberal…..but then to sharma 2 + 2=5 because the bjp says 2+2=4 adnd pakistanand congress disagrees…..with the bjp….

    now the brave liberal will censor this…….and defendd mfh’s free speech and srks’ to call pakistan friendly…figures…..sharma is truly predictable

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Thanks Sherry. In fact I was trying to pre-empt the comments from the author of the blog that I belong to bjp/Bajrang dal/VHP, as I differed with him on the way to handle Afzal Guru and Kasab. Anyone differeing from him would be labelled as a member of either of these outfits. It is just difficult for him to accept any view or opinion different from him and this becomes his last argument when he fails in accepting the logic.
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sharma is a fascist..who pretends to be neutral. After all he is follower of Italian fascist Sonia gandhi.

  • vijay kumar

    @ EVERYONE >>>>

    Why Afzal is kept alive is because the Indian state has become a gutless old hag, influenced by cowards like Mani Aiyar and Arundhati ROy who will never never never say anything against the terrorists because of the fear coming on a hit list. The blundering idiot, Shivraj Patil even mooted the idea of exchanging Afzal for Sarabjeet.

    Why Afzal for Sarabjeet? It could be some other small time terrorist from Pakistan ( we have thousands of them in our Indian jails) rather than a guy who attacked our Parliament and killed our guards out there. Sarabjeets’ crimes were just bootlegging and some small spying.

    Shivraj Patil just reflected the demented and cowardly state of the Congress.

    They will produce a million reason on why Afzal deserves clemency. In fact some imbecile idiots have even gone as far to say that Afzal is innocent anyway.

    Capital punishment is necessary so as to send a signal to the forces of evil out to kill our freedoms and democracy that they will not suceed in making India into a Pakistan sort of theocracy where terrorists like Hafeez Saed call the shots.

    If Afzal is not to be hanged, he can then be tied with a collar like a street dog, taken for a walk and then fed everyday. We can spend five crores every year guarding and feeding him, while innocent farmers commit suicide for want of government aid. Such are the priorities of this government.

    And what happens if another hostage situation is created a la Kandhar ? WOuld we end up freeing Afzal or end up sacrificing innocent men, women and children?

    Kasab will probably hang because of the Bal Thakrey factor in Mumbai. Otherwise our cowardly government would have made him a state guest for the next fifty years. Spending crores on Kasab, while forgetting the innocents murdered by him.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ vijay kumar

    i agree cent per cent with you.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    The following 2 reports will show, how the Pak army acts as the facilitator for Lashker-e-toiba.

    It also demonstrates how futile and damaging is for Indian government to talk to Pak govt, while all this goes on unabated.

    1st from Dawn.
    —————————————

    Pak Army Major arrested in NY bomb plot.
    —————————————–
    WASHINGTON: A Pakistani army major has been arrested in connection with the failed bombing earlier this month in New York’s Times Square, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday.

    If the report, which quoted Pakistani law enforcement sources, is confirmed it would represent the first time someone in Pakistan’s military establishment has been implicated in the botched car bombing plot.

    Chief suspect Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani-born US citizen whose father was a senior official in Pakistan’s air force, made his first court appearance on Tuesday in New York and did not enter a plea over the May 1 incident.

    Shahzad, 30, was arrested apparently trying to flee the country on a flight to Dubai 53 hours after street vendors alerted police to smoke coming out of the vehicle in New York’s theater district on a busy Saturday night.

    The Washington Post said the extent of the Pakistani major’s alleged involvement remained unclear, but that unnamed law enforcement sources told the paper he had met Shahzad in Islamabad and had cell phone contact with him.

    According to the newspaper a second suspect being held by the Pakistani authorities acted as a liaison between Shahzad and the Pakistani Taliban —blamed by the US for being behind the attempted Times Square attack.

    Pakistani law enforcement sources told the paper Shahzad met the suspect three times last summer and at one meeting gave him an undisclosed sum of money for the attempted bombings. Unnamed US officials told the newspaper the amount was 15,000 dollars.

    US officials say Shahzad is connected to Pakistani Taliban insurgents and President Barack Obama sent two senior national security aides this week to Islamabad to join the investigation.

    Federal agents last week also arrested three Pakistani men in the northeastern United States and said they were suspected of funneling money to Shahzad. However, they were not charged with terrorism.—AFP

    ———————————————————————————————————–
    Similarly severel Pak army officers have been identified by Daood Gilani alias Headlet in the Mumbai massacre. Its all hush hush and no one has been held accountable. USA has not persued it, India is clueless and idiot.

    This second report shows, how LeT operates and how Shehzad was trained by it.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_let-trained-times-square-bomb-suspect-to-fight-in-kashmir-report_1385160

    LeT trained Times Square bomb suspect to fight in Kashmir: report
    PTIWednesday, May 19, 2010 23:15 ISTLast updated: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 23:26 IST
    Email

    Print

    Share
    Washington, DC: Pakistani-American Faisal Shahzad, who has been arrested in connection with the failed car bombing in New York City’s Times Square, was trained by the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) to fight in Kashmir, a top commander of the terrorist group has said.

    Shahzad visited Pakistan in mid-June 2006 to receive training at a camp belonging to the LeT, according to the commander at the terrorist group’s main base of operations in Dulai, a village 25km south of Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

    “Shahzad came to us for training… He stayed with us for three months and we provided him with the basics. Then he went back to the US,” the commander was quoted as saying by Canadian magazine Maclean, which did not name him.

    The LeT commander, however, denied that his group had anything to do with the failed May 1 attack in Times Square.

    “We told him we wanted to send him to Kashmir to fight the Indian occupation. But he refused. He said he wanted to fight Americans and that Afghanistan is where he wanted to go. We were hesitant… But we told him, okay, do your training and we’ll see after that,” he said.

    “He wanted to do something big,” the LeT commander said.

    “For us, that was dangerous. We don’t want attention on us, and we were worried that Shahzad’s personal agenda would get him captured and bring the spotlight on us.”

    He said that Shahzad was brought to the LeT camp by another member of the organisation.

    “He was an eager recruit… very intelligent but also very intense, and driven to make his mark for the sake of Islam,” he said.

    Shahzad, a Connecticut resident, was arrested at John F Kennedy International Airport while he was trying to flee to Pakistan via Dubai.

    The camp at Dulai, the Lashkar’s operational headquarters, was built a little over a year and a half ago after the previous headquarters were closed by the Pakistani Army, the magazine said.

    According to the LeT commander, Shahzad came to the old headquarters, and from there was taken to a camp further into the mountains for his basic training.

    When that training was complete, he was instructed to return to the US and told not to make contact with the LeT for the next six months on the grounds that he will be under watch by US authorities.

    “After six months, we tried to contact him,” said the commander, “but we received no response, not from email or by telephone. We thought, well, okay, so maybe he’s had a change of heart… We have thousands of recruits who come to us for training. It doesn’t affect us if one of them is lost.”

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    besides shahzad faisal’s father was also some former Pakistani army official.

    [Reply]

  • Hariom

    Congress has never stooped so low. This is the worst from Congress. They are delaying the death sentence because it would appease the hard line Muslims in India. This will backfire because:
    1) Almost all Indians including Muslims, agree that Afzal should get death sentence
    2) All Indians are angry that Congress is delaying the matter on frivolous grounds
    3) Indians anger on Afzal and Kasb, will only get a closure on execution of death sentence
    4) Most Indians have started believing that Congress is anti-Indian, and bends backward to appease Pakistan and hard line Muslims! Indians now question Congress’s patriotism!

    [Reply]

  • nigah

    there have been thousands of innocent killings in kashmir by indian forces not to mention rapes,missing kashmiris and custodial killings..this is just a gentle request to all these extremists who call themselves peace lovers and want to end lives of people who are accused fo murder ..what about those multitudes of poeple who get away unblamed and unhurt even after commiting genocides and barbarious crimes against humanity.Why are killers of shopian rape and murder still moving free and safe?what about killers of zahid and wamik and scores of other toddlers and teenagers killed in kashmir..please open your eyes before wrath of Allah engulfs you all.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    Dear Nigah – meaning sight – kindly continue to be delusionally unsighted!!! Allah does not protect liars! One person less for Him to protect!!

    [Reply]

  • manoranjan

    Dear Sir,
    the terrorists has no religion & the law should take its own course.
    But one thing I donot understand that, the so called capital punishment is existing since the Gupta era
    does it really prevent the said elements? Do we really endavour to eleminate its roots.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @nigah,
    Don’t pot criminal propoganda here.
    The shopian case has exposed the entire Kashmiri seperatist leadership and its sympathizers as criminals.
    The doctors have confessed to fabricating rape report under extrimist pressure.
    The entire case was concocted by the criminal sections of seperatist leadership.

    Its only in India , that foreign agents and criminals like Gilani, walk free. If this was Pakistan, he and the entire seperatist leadership that works as ISI agents would have been eliminated.

    Just watch how Pakistan uses tanks, gunships to massacre those who oppose ISI-army.
    Entire villages are ravaged in NWFP, Waziristan etc with many millions rendered homeless.
    In India , the entire seperatist leadership walks free even after criminal acts.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    —————————————————————————————————-
    Pak state takes extraordinary measures to protect Mumbai massacre criminal Hafiz Saeed.
    ———————————————————————————————————————————–

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pak-to-step-up-security-of-26-11-mastermind-hafiz-saeed_1385376

    LAHORE: Pakistani authorities have directed police to step up security of Jamaat-ud-Dawah (JuD) chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, blamed by India for masterminding the Mumbai attacks, followings reports that a group of Taliban militants might target him.

    Mumbai under attackThe interior department of Punjab province has issued a circular to police that there is a “potential” threat to the life of Saeed and his security should be enhanced.

    Lahore’s acting police chief SSP Shafiq Ahmed told PTI that there is a security threat to Saeed and police had received instructions from the provincial government to beef up his security.

    “Following the instruction, we have deployed more policemen at his residence in Johar Town and the JuD mosque in Chauburji. We have also improved his escort during his movements,” Ahmed said.

    There were reports that Saeed had received threats from the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan but Ahmed and JuD spokesman Yahya Mujahid did not confirm this.

    “There has been no threat to Hafiz sahab’s life from the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

    We have not received any threat from the Taliban,” Mujahid told PTI.

    According to an Urdu newspaper, Saeed recently received threats from an “anti-Pakistan group operating in the tribal areas” bordering Afghanistan.

    “The Taliban is against Saeed because he had issued a fatwa (edict) against suicide bombings,” the daily reported.

    Saeed, who is also the founder of the Lashker-e-Taiba, was briefly put under house arrest in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

    He was freed on the orders of the Lahore high court last year. Pakistani officials have said India has not provided any information that would allow them to take action against Saeed.

    —————————————————————————————————————————

    In Pakistan, Criminal terrorist Hafiz Saeed, is widely held to be a ‘Sarkari Mullah’ who works for ISI-army.

    [Reply]

  • manoranjan

    Both the rulling & the opposition parties are using the issue as an weapon for there political gain.
    It seems Congress is for Muslim apisement & BJP as the saviour of Hindutva.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    let us have a mandatory law to execute the terrorists and those who helped them , after the legal process/trial is over. the execution law should be further expanded.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    http://www.siasat.com/english/news/pakistan-rejects-us-request-quiz-major-adnan-ahmed

    PAK REJECTS US REQUEST TO QUIZ Major Adnan Ahmed.

    Pakistan rejects US request to quiz Major Adnan Ahmed
    Friday, 21 May 2010
    Print Pdf

    Islamabad, May 21: The Pakistani authorities have turned down an American request for access and permission to interrogate Major Adnan Ahmed of the Pakistan army for his alleged involvement in the New York Times Square car bombing plot.

    According to sources here, the request was made on May 19 when General James Jones, the national security adviser to US president Barack Obama, and Leon Panetta, director, Central Intelligence Agency, called on Pakistani president Asif Zardari, prime minister Yousaf Raza Gilani, army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, and Inter-Services Intelligence chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

    However, the Pakistani military and intelligence leadership turned down the officials’ demand, saying Pakistani military authorities could interrogate Adnan, but the Americans could help in posing questions.

    Kayani sacked Adnan last week after being informed by American intelligence agencies that he was constantly in touch with Faisal Shahzad, prime accused in the Times Square car bombing plot, although military officials dismiss the link.

    A Pakistani military spokesman said Adnan, of the Signal Corps, was sacked for insubordination after seniors complained about him to the higher authorities.

    Intelligence circles in Rawalpindi insisted he was arrested for his alleged links to Shahzad, which were established following scrutiny of mobile phone records. The major reportedly met Shahzad, a naturalised American citizen of Pakistani descent, in Islamabad during a visit to the federal capital last year.

    A suspect claimed to have given $15,000 to Shahzad for arrangements for the bombing in New York.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    Any comments from those that think Pak will stop terrorism against India thru talks ??

    [Reply]

  • nigah

    o really ! who gave u the information that shopian case was fabricated!!!! consummate masters of blind followers of media!.i pity all u victims of overrated bluffing media..o by the by fellow indians brothers in secularity ! remember these blatant comments and aghast disclosure of hatred for kashmiris…it wasnt surprising though!!!if u are so concerned about farmers of india commiting suicide for lack of resources please redirect the forces and also sources of india for the upliftment of those poor souls rather than deploying them in kashmir where they are not required.I love India and it is not just your country..it belongs to kashmiris and we have all rights to demand justice and equal rights from it!..donot be the mouthpieces when u dont even have mature brain to see the right or wrong happening in india..what potryal of patriotism is this where you are insinuatinng hatred amongst muslims of india!! shame on you all.!

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ever heard of MixedCase.

    [Reply]

  • nigah

    @karuna
    nigah doesnot mean sight or light..better dont make a comment for the sake of making one!just be busy with your humdrums for which you folks are so famous for!

    [Reply]

  • http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com Tanzeel

    Hanging Kasab would be unfair, As we know he was not alone in this episode.

    ———————————————-
    http://tanzeel.wordpress.com/

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Can we hang you too?

    [Reply]

  • rajiv

    @nigah,

    From your taleban english, I couldn’t find a coherant thought but some rabid monologue that has no basis in facts.

    Just google the shopian case. The doctors at the hospital have confessed to fabricating the swabs. The independent commission found the swabs fabricated. This entire episode has exposed the rabid seperatist community, who are no better than the Taleban in Pakistan, which the Pakistani army is hunting down like ****.

    Thank God that you are in India and watch how Pakistan guns down seperatists with tanks, airplanes, bombs The largest number of internally displaced person in the world in last year are in Pakistan. Thank Allah, you are not one of them.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    Y u dont leave KAshmir when overwhelming majority of Kashmir is muslims and they dont want to live with India from last 62 years…

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Take 170 millions muslims with kashmir..Deal!

    [Reply]

  • nigah

    @ RAJIV
    I dont need to google shopian episode or anything related to kashmir !!!!!! that fits people like you! we are the witness for crimes going on there..you have not even the fartherest idea whats going on so better stick to ur subject if you have any!!!!!!!!these blogs out here are all monologues! and if u failed to see what kind of pathetic worn out and absolutely headless comment you are making then let me outline it to you’ rabid seperatist community’ Can u explain this ‘rabid’ to me?? I can only squeel in laughter.Go back to your daily routine dont nose into kashmir issues! and yes stop glorifying and exemplifying pakistan! that only shows how utterly ignorant you are! you comments or your likes donot matter to us.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    @Nigah – whatever!

    There is a Freudian slip in your trip: “we are the witness FOR crimes going on there.” lol!!

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @Tanzeel,

    You can recommend Kasab for Nisha-e-Pakistan as that honour is mostly given to rogues and murderers.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @EVERYONE, with a wry smile :)

    As exposed by me earlier, one reason why Vinod Sharma, Shiela Dixit and some Congresswallas favour clemency and maybe parole for Afzal, is the fear of coming in a hit list of a terror organization.

    Ms Shiela Dixit has chosen to be a mother to Afzal Guru and not to the brave security men who gave their lives protecting our MP’s and Parliamentarians, INCLUDING Congress MP’s. Shame on you Shiela. If you are so scared for the safety of yurself and yo0ur family you should quit public life and stop earning money paid by taxpayers like us.

    Mr Vinod Sharma, ( my one and only Uncle Vinod :) ) takes a controversial stance because

    a) Saves him the trouble of being in a terror hit list

    b) Gets him on TV mouthing stupid line on being liberal and different. A conventional pro hanging stance will NOT get him onto TV and hence no money or fame… :)

    c) manages to get him labelled as a peacenik. So an invitation to Pakistani High Commission with free kebabs as perks follow. And you also manage to talk to some idiotic wide eyed dumb females who keep talking about peace without even acknowledgin that we are fighting the religious fanatics from Pakistan on behalf of the entire world.

    Mr Vinod Sharma, I know for a fact that most Indian Muslims have nothing to do with Kasab or Afzal Guru. By stating that by hangin Guru we will hurt Muslim sentiments is an insult to Muslims. Why do you do this???

    Why do you question the patriotism of Indian Muslms, Vindo Sharma ji??????

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar
    You are plain uncouth. And just incapable of debating an issue without personalising it.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    You should first learn some manners yourself.

    [Reply]

    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Vinodji,

    Why have you become abusive, uncle?

    Since you have not given a point by point rebuttal, it proves that i am correct :)

    [Reply]

  • nigah

    @ watever karuna!
    assumption queen! when something like that will happen to you..it will be a big lol too!!!!!! u have nothing more to say after u begin to discuss things with a kashmiri! hehehe!! continue living in denial ! i think this page definately belongs to ppl who are not heard otherwise..we have our own forums !! why bother! good day to all u typical aaj tak watchers! i suggest start reading some sensible stuff like that of arundhati’s.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Dear nigah,

    Celeberate the fact that women in India get freedom and freedom from being a fifth wife of a terrorist.

    I think you should improve your world view and stop supporting killers of humanity. One good way would be to do soul searching and mourn for every innocent a brainwashed terrorist kills.

    No terrorist ever goes to jannat. Training terrorsits was Pakistans way of diverting the attention of their youth from the dismal conditions there and the fact that there was no democracy in 95 % of its existence and a corrupt ISI and army sponsored democracy now.

    You should ponder on why Pakistan needs to kill Shias, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Ahmediyaas, Qadianis, Christians and anyone who asks for freedom of thought and religion.

    Maybe your distorted thought process can be rectified if you really go into these issues,.

    Wishing you well

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    Get ur facts right…It is India where Gujrat riots occur where thousands of muslims got killed. Then it is India where Babri mosque demolished and immediately after babri mosque, riots occur in Bombay where again muslims killed. Then in 1984, It was the turn of Sikhs who got killed by Indian democracry…. Leave Muslims, Sikhs in India…Even Nuns got raped in Urisaa in India, Churches got burned….

    And then u talk abt Shias, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Ahmediyaas, Qadianis, Christians and anyone who asks for freedom of thought and religion in Pak… I feel pity on u…

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    @Sal

    The Gujarart riots were a sad blot on India and rectification action has occured. They happened after 68 HIndus were burnt in a train in GOdhra and spontaneous flare up of emotion occured. HIndus also died ( 761 nos ) in the riots. Sad event which needs to be condemned.

    However our constitution guarantees religious freedoms to all. Muslims are growing in numbers and percentage in India. Tommorow they can be the troch bearers of freedom from fanatiscism for Muslims worldwide.

    Unlike so in Pakistan where religous minorites have either been killed, converted or driven away. The population of minorites in Pakistan has shrunk from 33% in 47 to 3 % today. Pakistan is a blot on the name of humanity.

    Unfortunately a Sunni Muslim from Pakistan will keep repeating that Pakitan is good to its minorites while denying them space in all fields or nudgin them either to get killed or get converted. Some Pakistanis keep saying that our religion is better so minorites get converted. Fool yourself, because you would never sense the fear a person from a religious minority feels in Pakistan.

    Sal Reply:

    @Vijay Kumar

    Dont try to fool any one….Muslims are roughly 15-17% of India…but they r less than 3% in ur armed forces..same case is in ur civil services…And this is the reason ur own PM wants reserved seats for msulims along with dalist and llower caste hindus in civil sector… I dont have a single doubt in my mind that msulims r living life of dalits in India…

    In 47, Bangladesh was part of Pakistan…and bangladesh was more populated than Pakistan in 47 and they had a higher percentage of non mulsims..even now…Furthermore millions of non muslims migrated to India from today’s pakistan..So dont give the percentage as 33% itself is not corrcet.

    Have you ever heard of Hindu muslims riots in Pakistan where thousands of muslims killed thousands of hindus…No.not a single riot..Have u ever heard muslims raped runs or burnt churches..No….and then u talk abt Pakistan..You have the worse of worse religous riots in ur history and u point fingers at aother..

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sal,
    Please read the book by SGPC about genocide of Hindus and Sikhs committed by pakistan after partition.
    You have wiped out all your minorities so how can there be any riots.
    You have killed 3 million Bangladeshi muslims out of with 2/3rd were hindus.
    Read History..not madrasa history.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Sal,
    What about Ahmadis and Shia getting killed everyday?

    BNA Reply:

    @Nigah

    You talk of Arundhati Roy. She has been described as a loose cannon who has abused liberal traditions of India to the fullest. Is n’t it a tribute to the tolerance of India’s ethos that a person who openly calls cessation of India is walking free and not being locked up?
    BNA

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @Sal

    Pakistan’s denial of fundamantel truths has made it the most dangerous place on earth, where you could even get killed for rolling up Pajamas one inch above your ankles as male school teachers in Peshaawar discovered !! :) :) :)

    Haa ha aha ah :) :) :)

    What a hell hole!

    Live in hell Sal and keep fooling yourself !! Tell yourself that what Hafeez Saeed preaches is good !
    That dawood Ibrahim is the right ruler of Pakistan…. he is good..

    That Gen Zia was a democrat since he won elections with 108% vote.. he is god !! Ha aha

    That Pakistan is a democracy just to its minorities… !! Ha ha ah :) :)

    Keep fooling yourself, till one day you would be killed by the forces of evil your country breeds or you would be forced to become one of them…

    What a life….
    Keep

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    Dear Vijay Kumar

    India is the biggest hell hole that exist on this planet where 35% of world’s poor are forced to live their life and where every kind of riots occur from religous to social, ethinic but ur chep indian media dont bother to show them outside world..At the moment the biggest problem for internal security of India is Maoist and they are gaining strength day by day and they have already very strong presence in 250 distrcits of India (total distrcist is around 600) but still you talk abt Hafiz Saeed….

    No one of you has the guts to accept the reality which is overwhelming majority of Kashmiris are muslims and they dont want to live with India from last 62 years and this is the reason Y India didnt held a plebescite in Kashmir which was promised with them cos you know the what would be the outcome of that plebescite..

    Cheers..

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    If we give your muslim majority LAND Kashmir, are you willing to take 170 million muslims with it.
    Why are you only interested in Kashmir’s real estate? What about Indian muslims?

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    @Rajeev

    your question is sensible..

    Let me tell you Pak was not made for all muslims of subcontinent of India…Pak was made for only those muslims of subcontinent of India where they were in majority..and they were in majority in Sind, Balochistan, Kashmir, Western Punab, NWFP..So Pak was made for muslims of the only above mentioned states…But in 1947, riots broke out and many muslims were forced to leave their land in India and migrated to Pakistan..

  • vijay kumar

    @nigah,

    AS it seems today, Pakistan may break up into Talibanistan, Pakistan – 2 compromising of Baluchistan and SIndh and original Pakistan.

    In that case which Pakistan will Kasmiris like you opt for?

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    @Sal

    Which Pakistan will u belong to in the future. Pak _ 1 ( mostly Punjab)

    Pak-2 Sindh

    Pak 3 — Baluchistan

    Pak – 4 — Talibainistan

    Let us first have a plebiscite in these four Pakistans

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ———————————————————–
    20% to 1 % , in just 60 years
    ———————————————————–

    Even in 1947, Hindus made up 20% of the population of West Pakistan ands a majority in 3 of there 4 largest cities.
    They now number 1 % or so. Pakistan has beaten Nazi Germany in exterminating the minorities.
    Below is a story from todays DNA times that should give some clues about how this happened.

    57 Pakistani Hindus convert to Islam ‘under pressure’
    http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_57-pakistani-hindus-convert-to-islam-under-pressure_1388695

    Amir Mir / DNAFriday, May 28, 2010 2:22 IST Email

    Print

    ISLAMABAD: Over 50 Pakistani Hindus have converted to Islam in the Sialkot district of Punjab within a week (between May 14 and May 19) under pressure from their Muslim employers in a bid to retain their jobs and survive in the Muslim-dominated society.

    As many as 35 Hindus converted to Islam on May 14, another 14 on May 17 and eight on May 19, 2010.

    All the 57 Hindus who have converted belong to the Pasroor town of Sialkot.

    According to some Pakistani electronic media reports, Mangut Ram, a close relative of some of the new converts, who lives in Sialkot, said that these Hindus had to embrace Islam because they were under pressure from their Muslim employers.

    He said four Hindu brothers along with their families lived in the village of Nikki Pindi. Mangut Ram said that Hans Raj, Kans Raj, Meena/Kartar and Sardari Lal along with his nephews and sons worked at an eatery in Karachi.

    According to Mangut Ram, his co workers often used to speak against Hindus in Karachi where his family worked. “The owner of the shop where I worked said that after a few months of his employing me the sales dropped drastically because people avoided purchasing and eating edibles prepared by Hindus. Many people opposed the large presence of Hindu employees at his shop and my boss felt pressured to change the situation,” he added.

    Ram said Sardari Lal and his brother Meena/Kartar had worked at the sweets shops for several years and made a decent living that allowed them to support their families.

    He said other Muslims employees of the nearby shops discriminated against them and persecuted them. The shop owner was forced to think about their future at his establishment. “That was when the two brothers and their families decided to embrace Islam in order to keep their jobs and be secure,” he added.

    Ram confirmed that 13 family members of Sardari Lal, 12 members of Meena/ Kartar, their nephew Kans Raj’s son Boota Ram along with three adults and several children of these families embraced Islam on May 14, 2010.

    He said that Sardari Lal’s older brothers Hans Raj and Kans Raj remained Hindus. Hans Raj too has said that he might consider converting to save his job. He said that life was ‘just easier if one was Muslim’ and he wouldn’t be discriminated against.

    Ram said that 14 Hindus of the Tapiala village had embraced Islam on May 17 because they were extremely poor and could not get jobs because no one would employ the large Hindu family.

    He said that another relative of his, Parkash, who lived in the village of Seowal, along with his eight family members had embraced Islam in order to save their lands.

    “After embracing Islam, Parkash Ram told me that Muslim neighbours had been mistreating him and had forced him to convert,” Mangut Ram said.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    As a matter of fact, the % of minorities in current territories of India has actually grown since 1947.
    Nothing else brings out the difference between what a criminal state Pakistan has been and what a tolerant state India has been.

    Its also worth noting that the Indian government has kept quiet , last 60 years, as Pak has completed a most brutal demographic and religious genocide in Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    You can think whatever you want to think to keep yourself happy…In 1950, muslims in West Pakistan were not more than 5%..Infact less than 5% and no hindus was forced to get convert to become muslim…Riots tell everything…in Gujrat thousands of hindus kill thousands of muslims…Can you quote me a single example in Pakistan where thousands of muslims killed thousands of Hindus…No not a single one

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    If you still dop not understand why Pak is a criminal state, read on…

    ——————————————————–
    Criminal propoganda by bigots , media and Gujrat riots.
    ——————————————————————————–

    I will quote only independent sources here.

    2002 Gujarat violence – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAt the same time, about two hundred policemen ..lost their lives trying to control the violence ….. “254 Hindus, 790 Muslims killed in post-Godhra riots”. …
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence -

    Any riots are wrong and tragic and inncocents lose there lives. The state and society owes an apology to all hindus and muslims killed in Godhra carnage and post Godhra riots.

    But the bigots and anti-BJP media ( communists, naxalists, Congress ) , have distorted facts and sacrificed the truth, in there eagerness to score political points. They have maligned India in the process.

    If Godhra riots were done by the state of Gujrat led by Modi then
    1. How did 254 Hindus die ? Did they commit suicide , like I suppose the 54 Hindus in Godhra ???
    2. How did the 200 plus Gujrat policemen, who take orders from the state government run by Modi die ?
    3. Did the policemen commit suicide or did they die protecting Hindus from Muslim mobs or protecting Muslims from Hindu mobs ????
    The number of pilicemen killed is astounding and speaks volumes about the sacrifices the state administration of Gujrat did to protect the people, Hindus and Muslims.

    4. Gujrat has a 80% hindu and 20% muslims , roughly. So assuming 1 % of Hindus and 1% of Muslims, were rioting, there should be 4 hindus rioting for every 1 muslim. But the number of Hindus and Muslims killed, ( 264 to 790 , excluding even Godhra ) , suggest that more Muslims as a percentage of their population were rioting, or else mathemetically there should be a ratio of 4 to 1 , among Muslims to Hindus, killed in the riots, assuming they were not commiting suicide !.

    All riots are tragic. Just as 1984 riots. But riots don’t happen in a vaccum. Before 1984, Khalistani terrorists on a regular basis, pulled Hindus out of train and buses in Punjab and gunned them down. This happened for a few years, almost every other day, with zero retaliation from any Hindu activists. Innocents Hindus were butchered on a regular basis. It was that criminal killings by Khalistani murdereres that built the rage which provided a fertile ground for 1984 riots, which killed thousands of innocent Sikhs.

    The media’s role should be to dispassionately look at facts and not provide room to religious bigots for political purposes.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    In fact, the Pak state sponsored terrorist ideology, killed 80 Muslims of Ahmedia sect in Lahore, whom the terrorist Republic has declared as ‘non Muslims’ !!!.
    I guess the criminal ideology has run out of Hindus to kill in Pakistan !!

    Facts say everything.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    The very same day..80 indians killed by Maoist in Train mishap…sponsored by Indian govt

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    You are laughable.

    Maoists follow a fascist, intolerant ideology like radical , intolerant Islam, that claimed so many lives in Lahore today.

    Yes Maoists in India are evel, just like the Islamic jihadis of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, which has terrorists as its crown jewels.

    [Reply]

    Sal Reply:

    Grow up buddy…Maoist and Taliban both are terrorists..

    So You abuse Islam because of Taliban then Should I abuse Hinduism bcos Maoist are hindus and they have claimed thousands of lives just like today…

    Does it make sense..

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    The difference is huge.
    Pak army and ISI , loves Taleban terrorists, those that do not attack them and attack others.
    LeT terrorists and JeM terrorists continue to be crown jewels of the Pak state ruled so corruptly and ruthlessly by its army.

    The Pak state , through its army/ISI was involved in 26/11 and is currently carrying on a charade to protect the perpetrators.

    The government of Pak punjab, the largest state, has a deal with the terrorists, do not attack us ( sunnis ) and we do not attack you. So those terrorists, as long as they do not attack Pak army, ISI and Sunnis are guests of the Islamic republic of Pakistan.

    Maoists are not inspired by any religion to attack others , the radical Islamists and the Pak army/ISI are.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Here is a write-up by a Pakistani, Omar Ali from Outlook India.

    In fact, many Pakistani journalists, write similar opinion pieces in DAWN , Dailytimes.com.pk etc.

    I have no intention of defaming Islam, when millions of my own countrymen are Muslims.

    I would love to have a Pakistan, that was ‘civilized’ like Turkey and did not encourage uncivilized, vile radical Islam.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?265617
    Blowback In Lahore
    The attacks on Ahmedi mosques that killed over 80 people once again underline that such terrorism is unstoppable until you get at the infrastructure that trains and guides these terrorists
    Omar Ali

    Terrorists (Punjabi Taliban) simultaneously attacked two Ahmedi sect mosques in Lahore during Friday prayers and killed over 80 people. First thoughts on this evil attack: The choice of target is easy to understand. Ahmedis are a persecuted and vilified minority in Pakistan and “mainstream” news organizations feel no compunction about attacking them, so the ground is already prepared. e.g. GEO TV’s religion presenter (and phoney doctor) Amir Liaqat Hussain, a former minister, encouraged people to kill them if they “overstepped their bounds” and an Ahmedi doctor was promptly killed; there was some fuss in the liberal press but his programme aalim-Online is still on TV and writes a particularly vicious column in a major newspaper.

    Of course, the day is also significant. May 28 is the anniversary of Pakistan’s nuclear explosion and is a national day of jingoism, so the jihadis probably regarded it as appropriate for such an action.

    There will be talk of stepped up security and other such usual BS, but the fact is that such terrorism is unstoppable until you get at the infrastructure that trains and guides these terrorists. This infrastructure of support and guidance is known to everyone in Pakistan, but decisive action is difficult because of the following reasons:

    •The army set up and protected this monster and knows better than anyone how big the beast is. Arif Jamal (in the book Shadow Wars) estimates that the army and its subcontractors trained half a million jihadis. That’s a lot of trained killers even for a country as big as Pakistan. Even if some of the top brass now want to proceed against them, they would prefer to do so slowly and in small increments. Slow and steady action also ensures a long-term American GWOT subsidy, so the top brass may not see any need to hurry.

    •Because the army does not like to admit mistakes, it has never really let the general public know that mistakes were made and enemies within were created by the blessed armed forces themselves. Instead, they rely heavily on the narrative of “foreign hand” and “Indian-Zionist agents”. This means the “information war” is a total mess and the general public (whose cooperation is essential for any counter-insurgency) remains confused about who is fighting whom and for what purpose. Again, the confusion may suit the general staff just fine (letting them hang on to some shreds of their jihadist/Islamist bona-fides while collecting American subsidies and gradually taking action against terrorists who refuse to limit themselves to anti-Indian or anti-Afghan actions) but is not helpful to anyone else. Public officials, politicians and media personalities not only add to the confusion, they themselves remain confused, which inhibits decisive action and allows terrorist supporters to operate unchecked.

    •Several decades of officially sponsored jihadist propaganda have created a significant jihadist constituency in the educated classes. What the Marxists of yore would call the “class interests” of this elite force them to be anti-jihadi (because those “class interests” are intertwined with a capitalist global economy and the modern world in general, and the modern world currently has low tolerance for the jihadist project). But their ideological vocabulary (the story they tell themselves about the world) is heavily coloured by Islamist and Jihadist elements. The resulting cognitive dissonance not only gives migraines to the American embassy, it also undermines the anti-terrorist effort in significant ways.

    •And all this is layered on top of the “baseline” level of violence one expects in any mismanaged, unequal, unfair, over-populated, under-represented, mis-educated and ethnically divided third world population. Some level of organized and unorganised violence against the corrupt state shows up in the erstwhile Hindu kingdom of Nepal, the secular republic of India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, etc. in various forms, ranging from large scale criminality to Maoist insurgencies. In remote places, the weakness of the state also lets the people organize on ethnic and religious basis and local armed gangs are a feature of all these societies. It sounds almost unbelievably stupid, but our brilliant general staff actually played a role in creating ethnic militias in our largest city as well. These alone would be a large enough set of headaches for any country, but the general staff added an Islamist insurgency on top of all these “normal” South Asian problems (and of course, the two merge in various creative ways). When it rains, it pours.
    But all this does not mean that Pakistan will not survive. I still think it will survive. In fact, I will stick my neck out and predict that:

    •Very slowly, painfully and very very incompetently, the ruling elite will fight the jihadist insurgency and eventually bring it under control (and some in the elite will get very rich doing so).

    •The baseline “Maoist” component of the insurgency could potentially have grown into a serious problem, but Islamism will co-opt all other grievances and will save the ruling elite in the long run because the hardcore Islamists are so insane, the corrupt and vicious ruling elite will look better by comparison.

    •India, China, Iran and America will spend sleepless nights figuring out how to keep Pakistan in one piece and while their efforts will occasionally work at cross purposes, the overall impact will be positive.

    •Islamism as it currently exists is not compatible with coexistence in the modern world. It will be modified and replaced with a more flexible Islamist vocabulary, but it will take some time.
    Flexible and accommodating versions of Islam that freely borrowed from local traditions and were more aligned with actual human needs in our part of the world were dominant in folk Islam in India. These flexible forms were mostly Sufi-derived and transmitted via everyday folk culture, not through “high church” texts. Now that literacy and concrete thinking are more prevalent and folk-culture is increasingly disconnected from people who have moved to new cities and live new lives, the folk versions are at a disadvantage and literal-minded modern people are susceptible to the jihadi-oriented orthodox version. Saudi money, CIA ingenuity and narrow-minded versions of Pakistani ideology did their magic and an entire generation grew up hostile to the flexible and humane folk Islam of our ancestors (usually dismissed as “Hindooana rusoom”).

    The Islam regarded as orthodox and correct by these new literate Muslims is susceptible to jihadist interpretation. The elite encouraged this interpretation in the mistaken belief that it would help them gain the upper hand against India. Now that whole project has blown up in their face. Many of them realize that a change of course is needed, but they lack the vocabulary and the stories that would flesh out this new course. Outsiders, lacking local knowledge and empathy and frequently having other interests in view, probably do more harm than good when they try to identify “Sufi” and “moderate” versions to encourage. But in the long run, the needs of the elite will demand a new orthodoxy compatible with modern needs and the demand will be met. It’s hard to see right now because these are still early days in this turnaround. But economic and social pressures are pushing in that direction and will prove unstoppable.

    Until then, the show must go on.

    And even when this monster is brought under control, the “normal” problems of South Asia will still remain to be solved.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Omar Ali is a Pakistani-American physician who also moderates the “Asiapeace” discussion group on the internet

    [Reply]

  • mayamani

    sal,the only reason there r no riots in pakistan are because hindus do not start them like muslims do in india all the time…due to processions near amosque
    just because media hides that u dont know……..in last few weeks there were riots in bareili,hyderabad and bareili……all started by muslims…and in we saw how hindus were cleansed in kashmir……and their population came down in bdesha n dpakistan and muslims have grown in india..that says it all…….just hiding and lieing and believing propagnada from motivated media willl ofcourse keep u ignorant about muslim misdeeds and yes hindus have been killing muslims in india and yet tehir population has grown and muslims are so subdued that they dare burn atrain and start riots over processions…but media will make u belive their propagnada by hiding facvts…..
    very clever……this is indian secularism and secular media..target hindus and hate ur own community…only secular hindus r treacherous enough to do this…..

    [Reply]

  • vijay kumar

    One of the strange things we are told is that Jinnah would not have asked for Pakistan, had he become the president of the COngress in the thirties.

    Which means….

    That he was willing to split a country to attain power.

    We really have to see him in that light.

    Of course, Pakistan has been a failure as a nation and a disaster for humanity. It now possess nuclear weapons and chances are that as it gopes down the tubes, it would be willing to blow up the world alongside. The terrorist would just conclude that they have achieved jannat… :)

    We now have to work together– we meaning all the nations of the world — to either reform this evil entity or dismantle it.

    The reasonable people of Pakistan should question fatwas and texts written in another age. There is no point in insulting one religion againstt another. But then words wrioten centureis ago cannot ever be final. Maybe gender equality, freedom for minorities, making Pakistan secular like India, closing down its educatio system and sending NCERT books to its school students can change Pakistan.

    Otherwise it is bound to create a jahannum for the entire world….

    [Reply]

  • http://loversfromhell.com/ Aerommege

    buy viagra ђ•›”|IOѓ,buy viagra cheap p џ€ђ‰]dYњ, generic viagra Ё:<3i=s_,buy viagra online ‘Џc‰|ћ\`]i,viagra Q†¤ ,4D”—,buy viagra XPo4?-^™,],buy viagra :QЉ‚ҐЂg*u,viagra )˜§2p~PA,,viagra online M‡iЋџ©Џњ™4,cheap viagra Љ—Ѓr<^”xe‡,viagra 100mg [ўb}ђDwҐ,

    [Reply]

  • http://www.write2kill.in/ Subir Ghosh

    Haha. I want to visit this page tomorrow and see if it has been taken off the HT website ;)

    [Reply]

  • VAMSI KRISHNA

    y z it that every catalytic thing in the society is somehow made related to politics and their outcomes; when politics never shows its true outcome for the society????

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    I am surprised that today, we can read ill-informed opinion even in mainstream dailies.
    Rape is about domination; it is not about sex; brutal or otherwise.
    That said, legalizing prostitution is desirable and should happen. That is to ensure better hygiene, safety and physical security to the sex-workers and their clients too.
    To tout legalizing prostitution as a means to solve the problems of rapes committed by migrants, is unsound as an argument.
    Also, idle. One would have expected some statistics which told us if migrants indeed have been responsible for majority of the rapes. I remember it mentioned in “Satyameva Jayate” that most crimes against women are committed within the four walls of their homes. How does Mr Chauhan square this with his migrant bashing?
    It really takes very little to be writing blogs in the HT Bogs!

    [Reply]