Can an empowered Gilani stand up to Kayani?



The Indo-Pak thaw in the Bhutanese capital of Thimpu has been attributed to India’s willingness to deal with a newly empowered Pakistani Prime Minister under a reworked Constitution. Asif Ali Zardari has transferred his presidential powers to Yousaf Raza Gilani under a reforms package backed by an unprecedented political/parliamentary consensus.

Yousaf Raza Gilani

But has Gilani really emerged as ‘Superman PM’ after the Constitution (18th Amendment)? A definitive Indian judgment on the debatable issue will take some bit of time and talking with Islamabad. Zardari has been greatly weakened in the presidency that’s now ceremonial; divested as it is of executive powers bequeathed by his uniformed predecessors. Yet, in the PPP hierarchy, his position remains relatively unassailable and higher than that of the party-appointed PM.

Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

However, the real test of the PM’s relevance in the Pak establishment lies in his dealings with the Army that’s unlikely to give up it pivotal role in the country’s affairs—-democracy or not.

For New Delhi to continue taking him seriously, Gilani will need to demonstrate his ability to address India’s genuine concerns on terrorism. Without that, the promise of bridging the gaping trust deficit between the two neighbors will remain a pipe-dream. A denouement of this nature will be deleterious for Indo-Pak ties, deplete further as it will the already shrinking popular support for peace engagements with Islamabad.

Not only that. Gilani’s failure to take the agreed baby steps towards reviving dialogue with New Delhi will also impact negatively the establishment of genuine parliamentary democracy in the country that for most parts of its life has been under military despots.

One wonders whether he has an appreciation of it. But Gilani could, if he measures up to Indian expectations without compromising his country’s interests, obliterate the so-called Indian threat the fauj often uses to enhance stakes in Pakistan’s complex power structure. In former Premier Nawaz Sharif’s view, there can be no genuine democracy in Pakistan without demolishing the “myth of Indian threat or hostility” successive army chiefs exaggerated in the past to become sole custodians of national interest.

Gilani’s task obviously is easier said than carried out. His enhanced powers are at the expense of a civilian President. In that sense, the Army Chief’s larger-than-life role in the power troika remains unaltered.

Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani was and will remain the sole arbitrator on key foreign policy questions. The elected regime will look for and be dependent on his support on matters relating to the US, China, Saudi Arabia, India, Afghanistan and Iran.

Kayani will continue observing the protocol of calling on the PM. But the call will be his if the LeT has to be tamed or its face of terror, Hafiz Sayeed prosecuted or put behind bars.

From India’s standpoint, the Thimpu formulation has to be read against this background. Will New Delhi’s assumption behind the resumption of talks expose the presumption of democracy in Pakistan?

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (9 votes, average: 3.56 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...
  • Rajiv

    “Empowered Gilani” – that is the latest Indian spin to the resumption of Dialogue process.

    I will beleive it when I see it.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I think Gilani and Qureshi are hawks backed by pakistani Army so the question of their standing up to army or take a line different than army is out of question.

    I find Qureshi extremely arrogant. He thinks that pakistan is some super power and India should give in to Pakistani wishes. His Jhappi-Pappi picture with Hillary was disgusting to say the least.

    [Reply]

    nazir Reply:

    india and Pakistan must remain enemies….so that billions can be used to buy armaments and keep the arms industry in the west busy for decades to come….and hence serve the original purpose behind partition…who cares for the masses….a dose of patriotism is enough to placate them…. of course garnished by religion.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    Neither Pakistan will give in to your wishes…Keep living in fools world….

    [Reply]

    ghallughara Reply:

    Beggars will never change, because they get use to the free money from the rich, but they still hate the Kaffirs, sheme on you.

    [Reply]

    Jaga Reply:

    You have nothing more to loose . You are already below the worst. It carried no premium to put u to dust.
    we just want no truck with your failed rogue desert tribe ruled by a militia ties to a 1400 year old pole like a donkey.

    [Reply]

    Jai Reply:

    We are not living in fool’s world. You are so strong how can anyone force you to do right things when wrong is right in your countery ! we know killings and violence are part of your national policies. If Benazir’s assassin’s can not be found out with her Husband being President and party be in power where does India stand to get justice.
    Shabaash and continue with your belligrence.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We will force you to give in to our wishes…China has already declined to bail you out financially and day is not far when it will refuse to bail you out militarily.

    [Reply]

    ibiubu usa Reply:

    Maoist will force you guys to split, then what are the KKGGH’s gonna do???? hahahahahahaha

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I am sure maoist will force us to split you. Afterall we also need diversion.

  • http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com Tanzeel

    Pakistan is up for dialog with India every time, its India’s reluctance that stops coming them on table . What Pakistan want is a productive session of dialogs that is meant to resolve key issues but India’s ISI phobia doesn’t let the process move forward.

    Initially you guys were shouting for democracy in Pakistan but the day proper democracy came here you started blaming the democratically elected leaders as ISI men. In such a pessimist environment I don’t see any betterment of relations between two countries, its high time Indians get some maturity pills and call a spade a spade.

    —————————————————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    Akash Reply:

    Tanzeel,
    I guess things would be easier if you lock up cretins like Hafiz Saeed. You can’t carry on playing this double game. Someone wisely said, you can’t fool all the people all the time. Look what is happening to Pakistan with suicide bombings a daily occurrence.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    We lock up Hafiz Saeeds because India want them to be ?

    Whatever is happening in Pakistan is a post 9/11 scenario but I thank you for citing an example that proves Pakistan is itself a victim of terrorism and not a cause.

    —————————————————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    sunnyalways Reply:

    India wants Hafiz Saeed to be handed over to them . He can atleast be handed over to the International Court in Den Hag.He was even released by pakistani courts.Remember????Prevention is better than Cure.Pakistan is Epicentre of Terrorism.This Epicentre is resulting in thousands of civil casualities in pakistan itself.

    Shahzad Reply:

    I agree with Tanzeel. Pakistan is itself a victim of continuous terrorism. We have suffered much more than India in numerous incidents. We are continuously fighting against this menace because it is in our own interst. I think we do not require a certificate from India and neither India should think so. Let us be friends with honour and dignity and let us accept the hard fact that we are no more part of Maha Bharat.

    Tapobrata Reply:

    You have let the cat out of the bag. I knew you would never bring terrorists (LeT, JuD etc.) to book. They have always been part of your state policy. The entire world holds is aware of it (except Pakistan, of course). The rabied dog that you have reared for so long, is now biting the hand that fed it. And don’t claim to be a democracy unless your democratic institutions have grown strong enough. Your PM still trembles on seeing Kayani’s shadow.

    Ahmer Reply:

    Pakistan is now a victim of terrorism because it did not stop spreading it when it had control over it.

    Successive Pakistani governments (and Army) used the Mujahedeen against the Soviets, then against us, the Indians in places like Kashmir, against the Afghans (the years of Taliban rule) as strategic resources… they did not have the wisdom then to think that these rats might get out of control…. and thats what happened… so lets NOT play a victim here… what goes around comes around..

    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. In retrospect, India backed the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan and that paid off quite well for us… so the lesson to be learnt here is that you can’t propagate extremists from one side and complain about them from the other. The monster is self created for Pakistan and only it can kill it… if it truly wants to… for peace in India and the survival of Pakistan.

    Harry Reply:

    Tanzeel,
    Terrorism is your own created Frankenstein. Now that your own created monster has turned against you, you can’t hide behind your ‘ we are the victim’ phobia.

    sunnyalways Reply:

    Well Tanzeel Practice is always better than just theory. Who is an eligible head of state in Pakistan?Is the present head of the state control anything within pakistan? Pakistan has always ruled by your Generals.The democracy Years in pakistan can be counted on fingers.Who owns all pakistani industries??? like cement industry.All people who belonged to the army.Might is Right.Noone can govern pakistan without your Military support or mercy( pak military = ISI).Indians want all culprits who have been housing in pakistan to be handed over.Understand?But it’s impossible to hand over anyone who has been trained by ISI & sheltered by them.What do you personally think about Mumbai killings????Were they stageless actors?? Should we forget that all and start to talk to you? Talking to you about what? Pakistan has unfortunately earned a bad reputation worldwide for their terrorists training camps.Would you feel comfortable if you go to some foreign country ans people ask you about this?? Hand over people like indian airlines highjackers from afganistan,dawood,mumbai attack planners to name few.Then and only most of the indians will be in favour of TALKS:

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    I don’t know what’s your gauge of measuring eligibility. In Pakistan election is a process through which democratically elected PM comes in power.

    In past nation has witnessed military coups but its purely our internal matter. I don’t understand why Indians are afraid of Pakistani Military that they keep dragging them in every issue however you should understand the fact that military and government have no different policies, both the institutions work in the larger interest of nation. So if you think Pakistani democracy would become India’s yes man, you live in fool’s paradise.

    Even no democratic leader in past ever compromised on issues like Kashmir, in fact it was the military ruler Musharraf who flexibly tried to resolve Kashmir issue once and for all but due to blacksheep in BJP the peaceful arrangement could not take place. Now what should we call it, India’s quasi democracy ?

    —————————————————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    Nikhil Reply:

    Tanzeel,

    Please save us from the misery of reading your outrageous, bordering delusional, comments. Your attempts to obfuscate the problem, sadly, reinforces the view that it’s pointless to have conversation with even the literates from across the border. Thanks.

    Tara Reply:

    You can live with your hard line on Kashmir. We don’t even care because we know what is right and what we will do.

    Tapobrata Reply:

    Tanzeel,

    Get your facts right. The ‘flexible’, ‘acrobatic’ Musharraf started the Kargil war right after A.B.Vajpayee (a BJP leader) made the trip to Lahore. By his own admission, Musharraf was supposed to have turned off temporarily the tap of terrorism after 9/11. Mumbai attacks took place even when the two nations were in the midst of ministerial level negotiations. So, when Pakistan talks of peace, I can sense them sharpening their knives under the cloak.
    Finally, we have got nothing whatsoever to do with Pakistan or its so-called democracy; if there is one. We do not want Pakistan bred terrorists to kill and maim innocents in India.

    arindam Halder Reply:

    Good afternoon Mr Tanzeel,

    Thanks for the insight about what’s happening in your country.If you want us to call spade a spade then I guess we should be formenting terrorism in the so-called ‘AZAD-kashmir’ or ocuupy territory like what happened in Kargil?
    You have a democratic government how come the army chief makes political statements?Have you heard the Indian Army chief say something similar in public?You cannot deny the role of army in the administration.Yes we have ISI phobia so why don’t you help us get over it?You won’t prosecute Hafeez Sayed fine don’t do it just extradite him to India.No you won’t do that.
    You say you are fighting a war against terrorism.But tell me what were you guys doing all these years when the terrorists were allowed to get a foothold in your country?
    You must have heard Prevention is always better than the cure.You guys instead of preventing encouraged terrorism against others now that you are allied with the USA those very terroristswhom you pampered have turned on you guys.
    Mr Tanzeen i don’t know whats quasi democracy.But I remember Mr Vajpayee visiting lahore on the historic bus ride only to come back home and find Kargil happening and you ask us to be mature.
    Funny..

    ghallughara1984 Reply:

    Dear Tanzeel, the day “elected” PM or President appoints the Chief of Pakistan Army, ISI is functionally transferred under direct control of the PM, Parliament decides the defense budget of Pakistan and army stops breathing on the neck of elected representative, India and the world would consider Pakistan a democratic country. BTW, Quereshi was elected with active support and canvassing by Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, which is a banned militant organization by Pakistan as it is in cahoot with LeT, TTP and Al Queda. This is open secret in Pakistan. His statements in Pakistan smell and he has shown he is no less a hawk. Thanks

    [Reply]

    Tara Reply:

    First of all behave like a country to be accorded seriousness.

    Pakistan has shamelessly used terrorism as on instruments of foriegn policy against India. How many evidence from independent sources you want me to quote about Pakistan being fountainhead of terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

    What is your credibilty ? You talk of democarcy ? The moment leaders loose elections they flee thr country. Why ? because they fear for life. They don’t have faith in independence judiciary becuase none is there. What fairness anyone can expect from you ?

    Whom to talk in Pakistan ?

    What is the fate of Gen Musharraf’s assurnace on Jan 4, 2004 that Pakistan ’s soil will not be allowed to be used against india for terrorism ? What is the fate of your Govt’s assurance that 26/11 culprits will be brought to justice ?

    You keep on coming with outrageous demands seeking concessions and parity at the same time

    [Reply]

  • Jabli Izvesti

    This is a great joke.Just because the newly revised constitution makes Gilani,the prime minister,more powerful than before does not at all mean he is really and in fact more powerful with reference to the military strongman Kayani.Military dictatorships in Pakistan have not taken place over the years simply because there was no constitutional provision against them.The military in that country is an entity beyond and above the constitution itself.Gilani does not therefore have a ghost of a chance against Kayani.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.pakistan123.weebly.com Nawal

    Mr. Akash,
    why Pakistan kill or arrest its people who did not anything wrong with innocent people i think he killed only the people (Indian soldiers) who burned alive Innocent people of Kashmir….who killed kids of Muslims….i think he did help us…… and you are saying that we should arrest him to re-open the dialoge process han???? are we fooooooooool???????? no we cant arrest them….actually your government should arrest your terrorist (RAW’s agents whos bombing in Pakistan’s tribal areas other wise our army will finished then as they finished the from Swat.

    [Reply]

    Jaga Reply:

    Lower middle class semi literate IQ level reasoning of typically barinwashed Pakistani mind.
    It also shows your criminal intent that Hafeez helped you. So you admit he did kill someone and did right thing here you no wonder Islam justifies violence.

    How many stories Al-Quaida has of USA doing and helping Israel to do killings of innocent muslims ? That way 9/11 , 7/11 are all justified and Al-quaida actually helped you. Than why your Govt joined USA’a anti terror war ? This arguement is an honour for you as your IQ level is low.

    We don;t want you to arrest him to re open the dialogue we just want no dialogue with you as it accords you a status of a country which you are not. We don’t want you to do anything in 26/11 as than you will open your mouth for a dialogue. Keep LeT and good luck with it but stay away from India.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    And when are you going to punish terrorist army of yours for killing spree’s in Kashmir….lets not forget Modi while u at it..

    [Reply]

    Tara Reply:

    It is same Syed Hafeez and other porkis which are responsible for mayhem in Kashmir. Porkistan’s hidden territorial designs by provoking sunni muslims living in valley would be challenged and never be allowed to be fulfilled.

    Once you hand over PoK all the jehadis and their faceless proxies in valley would be punished.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Don’t worry..We will rid valley of muslim terrorist and then think about our army.

    [Reply]

  • PAKISTANI

    It’s interesting to see so many “HINDU EXPERTS on PAKISTAN” in every HINDU forum. Gillani is just a face of corrupt and coward feudalist in PAKISTAN. They come and go, infact they come to power and than abandon the country as need arises.

    An immature leader like Gillani can never stand to the power and discipline of PAKISTAN ARMY. As long as he minds his own business and does not interefere in ARMY institutions (just like his ancestors dis in past) he will stay in office, even though most PAKISTANI’s have no respect for him and his team of corrupt (morally and ethically) ministers.

    No one stands up to PAKISTAN ARMY, even though it will be the sweat dream of HINDU’s. PAKISTAN ARMY IS THE BEST.

    [Reply]

    Vicram Singh Reply:

    Pakistani says – “No one stands up to PAKISTAN ARMY, even though it will be the sweat dream of HINDU’s. PAKISTAN ARMY IS THE BEST.”

    So was the 1971 war a draw ?

    [Reply]

    Ashok Reply:

    Your neighbor’s memories are not that short. Please Google and find how many innocent fellow citizens were neutralized by the same army in 1971 civil war in East Pakistan now called Bangladesh. The figures range from 75,000 to 3 MILLION. No one was ever tried or punished for this genocide because it was a case of Muslims killing Muslims. I hope you can Google interview by President of Pakistan given to Wall Street Journal in July 2008 where Zardari openly declared that all those Pakistanis who are infiltrating Kashmir are TERRORISTS. I am sure President of Pakistan has more knowledge of its policies than you or me. Thanks

    [Reply]

  • Murali

    Please understand there are two positions for Pakistan army, either they are in front and visible or they are behind and invisible. So both Gilani and Qureshi are the faces of the Pakistan army now. Remember what Robert Gates said, the most important person in Pakistan is their army chief, so it is futile and waste of time and money to negotiate with these two gentlemen. If India wants results then negotiate with their army chief to agre and when the army chief leaves the job the agreement can be shredded to restart a new negotiation. In the mean time India will be publishing a number of so called pseudo non state actors like Hafiz Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, Javed Miandad, etc.

    Good luck for negotiations which are doomed to fail before they state.

    [Reply]

  • Anil

    What i find amusing is almost on the cue our jounros start singing Manmomahsn;s tune so he claims since now Gilaani is empowered hence the talk so u see spate of articles from the court jesters on that line……….

    Even bhutto could not do anything before army this gilaani hilani have no chance.. just mumbling MMS who himself has no constituency claims Gil;ani is empowered doesn’t buy Gilani any spine

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Anil,
    Pl read the blog carefully. I have clearly disagreed with the assumption that Gilani stands empowered in his dealings with India — an issue on which the Army has the veto! At the same time, I have speculated that it could be a deliberate Indian ploy to showcase the army’s unaltered equations with civilian rulers.

    [Reply]

  • Nikhil

    Can Gilani stand up to Kayani? Probably not. When the powerful and ‘enlightened’ Musharraf could not turn around the Pakistani establishment it’s improbable for Gilani to outrace Kayani with his new broomstick of the 18th amendment. (Unless Gilani morphs himself in to harry potter, ofcourse)

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    It never fails to suprise me how completely without intelligence you guys are coming up with Bollywood scripts. Why on earth Gillani would stand up against Kyani or vice versa ?

    Musharraf was himself an establishment smashed by democratic forces of Pakistan. Establishment is not any third force that cripples smoothly running system.

    —————————————————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    Nikhil Reply:

    Because dear, I-know-all Tanzeel, Kayani crafts the foreign policy of Pakistan. Not Gilani, not Zardari. But this is not new. Even Benazir and Nawaz Sharif during their days of PM publicly professed to settle diffrences with India, but the real power of the day called the shots. So when Zardari or Gilani ‘claims’ to have better relations with its neighbors, everyone, looks past them.

    This has been confirmed by many Pakistani scholars, journalists and foreign analysts and not some bollywood scriptwriter.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Nikhil,
    The independent UN commission investigating Benazir assasination has stated that Pakistan is ruled by the ‘Establishment’ and the elected government is subservient to it.
    The UN comnmission report has defined what it means by Pak establishment. As per the report the Pak establishment is :

    “the de facto power structure that has as its permanent core the military high command and intelligence agencies, in particular, the powerful, military-run the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) as well as Military Intelligence (MI) and the Intelligence Bureau (IB)”.

    The report goes on to say that even the police investigating BB murder were scared to investigate because they feared that the ‘Establishment’ itself was involved in BB murder.

    Thats why talking to Gilani, whoi cannot even investigate the murder of his own party leader, is misplaced.

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Foreign policy of Pakistan is crafted by Foreign ministry, Army only involves when it contradicts with national interests which is fine.

    I believe Indian Army has also say in foreign policy, don’t you guys at least listen to Army as a stake holder during foreign policy matters ?

    ——————————————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

  • Vicram Singh

    It is quite funny really when Pakistani’s talk about being victims of terrorism. This is typical of the Muslim mindset. For Muslims, as long as the opponent is bleeding in a fight, everything is fine. But when Muslims are on the receiving end, play the victim card. Well, Pakistanis in their short sighted, hate Hindu/Sikh world view used terrorists to create havoc in Punjab and Kashmir. Now when these same terrorists have turned on their masters and are creating havoc in Pakistan – why does Pakistan want the world to sympathize ? ( By the way, betrayal is a very Islamic trait – as has been witnessed in history).

    A lot of Pakistanis feel that all terrorist activities are done by RAW. Chanakya must be very very pleased then – a bunch of Hindu RAW agents have been able to brainwash Pakistani Muslims into killing other Pakistani Muslims. ( “Banias” too smart for you Pakistanis ? )

    My advice for India is – delay talking to Pakistan for another decade. With the pace at which the Indian economy is growing, in 10 years time, we will be able to secure “peace” with Pakistan on terms favorable to us. In the mean time we should dig in and prepare for the terrorists that will be sent our way – simply use the opportunity to battle harden our soldiers.

    For Indians “Aman Ki Asha” simply means “Stop Terrorism”.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    It should be apparent from answers of Tanzeel that looking for civil relations with Pakistan is a foolish enterprise.

    After what Pak army has done to Pakistan in last 60 years, including hanging of Prime-ministers to bigoted Islamization under the Pak-military tutelage of Zil-Ul-Haq, he believes Pak military is good for Pakistan.

    Well in that case, I wish Pak military double up and do to Pakistan, what it has done in past 60 years !!! It will be double-good.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    —————————————–
    Anathor Pak myth
    —————————————–

    Believe it or not , Pakistanis now sometimes claim that they are victims of terrorism.

    Well that reminds me of a delinquent who murdered his parents, and then wanted mercy, because he was an orphan !

    Anyway, the terrorism inside Pakistan, is actually gang-warfare between various terrorist groups.
    The major terrorist group is led by the Pakistan army along with its associates like LeT, JeM and Afghan Taleban factions close to the army.
    The other group is the Tehrik-e-Taleban Pakistan which has gone out of Pak army control and is now fighting it previous masters, the Pak army.

    The terrorism inside Pakistan is because of infighting between those groups.

    India has no bone in that fight.
    All we want is Pak army stop arming and sponsoring the terrorist groups like LeT , that come accross the border into India.

    Simple enough.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    Its seems all you indians have become experts in Pakistani affairs. Its fine and dandy on your forum, but we Pakistani don’t give a rats *** about your opinion. As far as Pakistan Army is concerned, no doubt its interference has caused immense damage to various institutions, but let me inform you moron is that for the most part it has always kept Pakistan’s interest infront, unlike our civilian leaders. Now that our judiciary and media are free, I doubt that army will ever take over. There name has been tarnished due to the war on terror. If your free and democratic country would allow you indians to watch GEO TV; Aaj TV or Dunya on your local cable, then maybe you will be able to undestand what i am really talking about. Till then keep beating your chests and TWo paisa advise.

    [Reply]

  • Jai

    The real center of power in Pakistan is always military and still it is. Now because Pakistan needs plenty of international aid and charges of Pakistan’s insincerty in war against terror are flying everywhere the army has to take back seat. It is very temporary arrangement. Democracy will never survive in Pakistan because of followuing reasons.

    1. No leader in Pakistan , or Pakistan as such , is ready to accept defeat or fault. They will tear the integrity of the system into shreds if they don;t win. That what happens even if they loose a match. They try to discredit the tournament or challenge its scantity.

    2. Land lords, Vaderas, chowdharies, feudal lords won;t allow people other than themselves ruling pakistan.
    3. Your biggest savoiur , USA, won’t like genuine democracy in Pakistan. Genuine democratic govt will never allow USA to prostitute Pakistan as easily as army does. USA just doesn’t have any respect for pKiatsn’; soverignty

    4. Another saviour , S Arbaia, itself is a desert kingdom. Forget it will press for democracy
    5. Pakistan is basically a militiristic “Kaum”. People with guns will rule it.
    6. Most of Islamic counteries are not democracy and our dear Pakistan is even more islamic than them.

    [Reply]

  • Azhar Hussain

    Following is the reason why indians whether it is average singh patel or kumar or gupta talk and bad mouth Pakistan whether it is Cricket; Hockey Politics or for that matter any thing. These statistics really SHUT them Up. Its like we Pakistanis comparing ourselves to somalia; Mongolia; Nepal or majority of African countries and feel good, but we don’t. Read and compare and enjoy and then go back start bad mouthing islam and Pakistan.

    CHINA versus INDIA

    ECONOMY/SCALE
    Units
    Year
    China
    India
    China to India ratio

    Population
    Million
    2003
    1288
    1064
    1.2

    GDP (PPP)
    $ billion
    2003
    6090
    2908
    2.1

    Per capita GDP growth
    %
    1980-2004
    8.2
    3.7
    2.2

    Share of manufacturing in GDP
    %
    2003
    39
    16
    2.4

    Living standards

    Per capita GNP (PPP)
    $
    2003
    4980
    2880
    1.7

    Life expectancy
    Years
    2002
    71
    63
    1.1

    Female adult literacy rate
    %
    2003
    87
    45
    1.9

    Under 5 mortality
    Per 1000
    2003
    37
    87
    0.4

    Under 5 malnutrition
    %
    1995-2003
    12.1
    45.8
    0.3

    Poverty ratio (% below $1 a day)

    2001 & 2000
    16.6
    34.7
    0.5

    INFRASTRUCTURE

    Electricity production
    Billion kwh
    2002
    1640.5
    596.5
    2.7

    Goods hauled (Railways)
    Ton-km billions
    2002
    1508.7
    333.2
    4.5

    Container traffic (ports)
    Millions
    2003
    61.62
    3.9
    15.7

    Air freight
    Ton-km millions
    2003
    5650.6
    580.0
    9.7

    Telephones (land + Mobile)
    Per 1000
    2003
    424
    71
    6.0

    EXTERNAL SECTOR

    Merchandise exports
    $ billion
    2004
    593.4
    80.8
    7.3

    Service exports
    $ billion
    2004
    62.4
    51.3
    1.2

    FDI inflow
    $ billion
    2004
    60.6
    5.5
    11.0

    Tourist arrivals
    Millions
    2003
    33.0
    2.4
    13.8

    Forex reserves
    $ billion
    2004
    614.5
    135.2
    4.5

    Sources: World Development Indicators (2005); Institute of International Finance, RBI and CSO. 2004 data for India refer to the fiscal year 2004-05.

    [Reply]

    Akhlesh Reply:

    Azzuu Bhai, Are you Chinese in disguise that you derive satisfaction by comparing China and India? Or, are you a Pakistani who dare not compare India and Pakistan?
    Try comparing the US and China!

    [Reply]

    Tapobrata Reply:

    How many masters would Pakistan serve at the same time. It had been America’s hand maid for long. Now it has accepted China as its master.

    [Reply]

    MKK Reply:

    What has China got to do with this? Is China a proxy for Pakistan?

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Pakistan is China’s Tattey (scortum)

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    as i said, Pakistan is a w-h-o-r-e who’s favorite client is China.

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    Who said we wanted to be China? Why compare us with China? Our method of development is going to be very different than China… we opened our economy 10 years after they did so it makes no sense to compare to them…

    If thats your logic then lets compare Pakistan with say… England and see where you stand! :-p

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    So are Pakistanis now claiming that China now part of Pakistan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Couldn’t stop laughing.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    RAjiv Baita don’t laugh, figures show you can never compare yourself to similar (1 b Plus population) hence day in day out comparison to Pakistan. My god Rajiv Baita 5 am and commenting and thinking about Pakistan. You are so paranoid you can’t even sleep.

    Baita Sleep tight, no modern day Tipu sultan come and hurt you

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    We buried all TIPUS in 1971..and will do it again and again till pakistan is buried for good.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel.wordpress.com Reply:

    Yeah in 1971, India split into 3 parts.

    —————————————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    Rajeev Reply:

    tanzeel,
    opium is bad for mental health.

    Rajiv Reply:

    ———————————————————————————————————
    What an irony.
    ———————————————————————————————————
    Pakistani origin men
    1. 9/11 master mind Khalid Sheikh Muhammad
    2. Mumbai attack ISI agent Daood Gilani ( Headley ) , son of a Pak diplomat
    3. Now Pakistani American Shehzad ( son of retired Pak air vice Marshall )
    do the horrible crimes and
    Indian origin American Prosecutors prosecute them in America.

    ———————————————————————————————————

    India-born US Federal Attorney Preet Bharara, spearheading the prosecution of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, now has another high-profile terrorism case in his hands — the Times Square bombing plot involving Pakistani-American Faisal Shahzad.

    The job of delivering a conviction on 30-year-old Shahzad will fall on Harvard and Columbia-educated ‘legal eagle’ Bharara, who is one of the 93 US Attorneys appointed by the US President Barack Obama in May 2009.

    Bharara heads the US Attorney’s office for the southern district in New York, which covers Manhattan, where the botched bombing took place, and John F Kennedy International Airport, where terror suspect Shahzad was arrested at the last minute as he attempted to flee the United States to Pakistan.

    Under Bharara there are over 200 lawyers who handle some of America’s most prominent cases, like trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the prosecution of Bernard L Madoff for his multi-billion-dollar Ponzi scheme.

    ………..

    What an irony.

    SKS Mumbai Reply:

    Have u seen majorbuttretd’s (Twitter Fame) comments on this:

    It goes like this : ‘Bollywood story. Seberated by bartition, Preet & Shahzad become US citijens. One becomes attorney & other a terrorijt. They meet in court…’

    Aka Reply:

    @Azhar
    If India and China sleep, they will be pakistan or Nepal. Power comes with didication. India is great because of people like Rajeev. Try to learn if you can!

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Its the other way around, its india claiming China as their part . Just the way they include Kashmir as their territory.

    ——————————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    In Pakistan, Pak army kills muslim terrorists , who are no longer under the control of Pak army, like rats, in dozens, everyday. You just have to read Pak papers for it.

    However, when it comes to conviction of murderer Kasav, after a transparent judicial process when even a Pakistani terrorist was allowed due process under the law, here are the reactions

    ———————————————————————————————————-
    Dawn : Reactions from Kasav’shome village on his conviction.
    ————————————————————————————————————-
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/16-pakistan+home+village+slams+mumbai+conviction-hs-02

    FARIDKOT: Farmers in the remote impoverished home town of the surviving gunman of the Mumbai massacre angrily denounced his conviction as a travesty of justice at the hands of “infidel” India on Monday.

    The town of Faridkot in the Pakistani farming belt of Punjab province has become notorious as the home of Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, convicted of taking part in the November 2008 bloodbath that killed 166 people in Mumbai.

    Power supplies were down due to Pakistan’s dire electricity crisis, but the verdict was the talk of the town as people sat in shops and small restaurants along the main road awaiting news of his fate.

    Minutes after the power spluttered back and as children in shabby clothes tussled in the unpaved road, news channels announced that the 22-year-old had been pronounced guilty of murder and waging war against India.

    “This is all against Pakistan. Ajmal is a child and he cannot commit this incident,” said Muhammad Iqbal, a farmer in his late 50s. He was also angry at the acquittal of two Indian suspects.

    “Why was there no equal sentence for all the culprits and why has only Ajmal been declared a criminal?” His small group were defensive, even outraged. Around 10,000 people live in the town, most of them labourers and farmers, few of them literate.

    “It is discriminatory and it would be better to hand him over to Pakistan,” said another farmer, Muhammad Yasin, 46. “Neither should he be given the death
    sentence.”

    At one restaurant featuring a traditional tandoor oven, more than a dozen people sitting on benches and a large couch entered into a heated debate.

    “This is wrong. India is biased,” said Muhammd Akram, 33, a local farmer, in between sipping a cup of tea.

    Although he had no answer to who was responsible for the militant attack that plunged Indian-Pakistani relations to new depths, he said Kasab should be released. “He has done nothing. He was wrongly involved in the attacks.”

    The previous day, a hawker in Faridkot distributed a weekly newspaper published by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, believed by Indian and US officials to be a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group blamed for the attacks.

    “Are they talking about our Ajmal?” 45-year-old Noor Ahmed asked, interrupting fellow residents who were discussing the case.

    “No. No. We don’t know him,” he said, sitting on a dirty couch in a small brick-and-clay room on the banks of the local canal.

    “But we have sympathies for him being Muslim.”Some residents said Kasab, like other young men dragged into the shadowy underworld of militant Islam, should be seen as a pawn, brainwashed by powerful jihadi groups.

    “Look, don’t blame him. There is nothing wrong if he did it with good intentions against an infidel country like India,” said Amjad Ali, a 60-year-old farmer with white hair.

    “India is doing bomb blasts in Pakistan and it has also blocked Pakistan’s water,” he said — echoing the belief of many in Pakistan that its arch-rival is behind suicide attacks in the country and siphoning off of water resources.

    One student claimed Kasab was a childhood friend who was in a group that used to swim in Faridkot’s polluted canal and liked to throw other boys into the water. He believes Kasab was brainwashed.

    “Definitely, the (Mumbai) incident created a bad impression for Pakistan and especially Faridkot,” the student said.

    He called for the massacre’s masterminds to be punished, and said it would be better if India extradited Kasab to Pakistan. — AFP

    [Reply]

  • Vicram Singh

    Message to Azhar Hussain regarding comparison of India to China – your statistics are true, I will take it so.

    All Indians will agree without hesitation that China is probably two-three decades of development AHEAD of us. There is no issue in acknowledging that fact. We look at China’s progress as something to be emulated.

    Since the Indian society is non-homogeneous and free-willed and can not be regimented, progress will be absorbed at its own pace – a.k.a Capitalism with Indian characteristics.

    Admittedly, we have border issues with the Chinese, however, India has never sent terrorists into China.

    [Reply]

  • Imran (Pakistan)

    Hi Vinod! I enjoyed the article. But it seems that you are yet to fully incorporate what is happening on the other side of the border. The changes in constitution of Pakistan might have made Gilani more enpowered *air quotes* but the real power still rests with the party heads. Zardari is still the real force behind the federal government (at least behind PPP). This government does not have any moral authority…. neither amongst the people, nor with the army.

    I don’t see Gilani aur Qureshi going anywhere with empowerment. Manmohan is way too weak to push the dialogue alone when their is such a hawkish opposition in India. We all saw that after Sharm Al Shiekh.

    The main question is do we want peace. YES! I would want peace even it means that we seal our borders and forget that we even exist on other sides. Live and let live!

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Imran,
    If you have noted, I’ve talked about Zardari’s residual powers as party chief. But I’m worried about the future of democracy in Pakistan under the new Constitution. If Gilani is unable to deliver, the Indian media will clobber him and declare even the new Constitution ineffective though it has a lot in it by way of devolution of powers for the states and prosecution of those who use force to subvert, suspend or hold the Constitution in abeyance.

    [Reply]

  • Delman

    Nothing has changed with Gilani; democracy cannot triumph under the hammer of military supremacy. India is trying this means as it believes in truth and justice. Pak says it is a victim of terrorism, but you reap as you sow. India needs to stay strong and stop showing soft. India should retaliate with double force when hurt, otherwise it will fail to become a super power. Are Indian leaders mentally and physically true match to run upcoming modern India?
    Indian politicians have tendency to avoid all hassel and cling to power deaf and dumb; they delay-defuse-deny. How long young India afford such liabilities?

    [Reply]

  • http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com Tanzeel

    In that case you should appreciate Pakistan’s role in War against terrorism.

    ——————————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel

    Having read your delusional and foolish comments on how Pakistan is a “victim” of terrorism itself and that of India being on the wrong side , you have represented the inherently moronic, insecure, loser and delusional typical Pakistani , who cannot get the facts right. i feel pity for you cockroaches , who are self destructive in nature. Pakistani people getting killed in terror attacks is sort of something good because you p@kees are finally having a taste of your own medicine.

    as far as China is concerned , it is the favorite client of the ***** called Pakistan

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    How about Indians being killed by Maoist, isn’t it a taste of your own medicine ?

    ————————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    there is a difference. Indians did not train Maoists to kill others…. Pakis trained Jihadis to kill others….

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Don’t live in a state of denial, Maoist have training camps in India, specially in Belpahari in West Bengal and East Singhbhum district in Jharkhand .

  • http://hindustantimes SHAHID HUSSEIN QABOOLPURIA

    Gilani is not needed to prove anything to anyone in India before he ,as Prime Minister of Pakistan, asks his Indian counterpart to resume negotiations stalled for more than a year between the two countries. Neither there is a reason that he stands up to General Kayani: the military chief of Pakistan.

    Gilani knows what his powers as Chief Executives are. Keyani understands what his limits are. Gone are the days in Pakistan when a General could have done whatever he wanted without fear of being grilled in the courts of law. Over the period things have gone through a dramatic change. Pakistan is now a flourishing democratic society, where military intervention is thing of the past.

    Good thing is there are wonderful relations between civilian Government and military establishment. The two enjoys confidence of each other and are agreed not to step out of their respective constitutional limits.

    Army is no longer interested to interfere in civilian affairs. Civilian Government, on the other hand, not looks keen to shuffle army establishment un-necessarily like naïve Nawaz Sharif, as Prime Minister, had tried to do back in 1999.

    Pak Army did not accept such a move back then. It will not accept any such move in future, by any civilian –no matter how powerful he would be. People will not endorse any such decision either.

    People in Pakistan know how important it is for their country’s survival that reigns of Pak military remains in a pair of very powerful hands like those of Keyani. Indian threat is not mere a hoax. It’s real. And it’s always there. And Pakistan is fully capable to cope with that threat effectively.

    Being immediate neighbor to India, Pakistan has to build itself militarily particularly when India has a dangerously aggressive plan to assert itself as a regional power by over-whelming to smaller countries especially to Pakistan. So there’s no way Pakistan will ever- or should ever- think about to reduce military’s stake from national affairs.

    As a responsible state Pakistan emphasize on talks because it’s better for two nuclear countries in the sub continent to sort out all the lingering issues like Kashmir, Siachin Glaciar, Water etc. through peaceful way of dialogue.

    Ironically India always runs away from dialogue. It always uses one pretext or the other for not holding talks with Pakistan or if, compelled by International Community, it agrees to move forward its leadership begin to put conditions for Pakistan before any process of dialogue is possible to re-open.

    Like, for example, India has consistently been urging Pakistan to “do more” against religious groups, which it thinks operating in Indian Territory. The demand is not justified. Pakistan is already in war with religious groups. And in this war Pakistan and Pakistani people have rendered unprecedented sacrifices. Pakistan as a nation has sacrificed more than any other country or nation in the world has.

    Crux of the matter is if India is willing to genuinely hold talks that are meaningful then welcome. If it does not Pakistan has nothing to worry about.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    u r deluded.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    @TANZEEL,

    THERE IS A CATEGORICAL DIFFERENCE IN BEING TRAINED BY THE ARMY AND UNDERGOING TRAINING IN HIDEOUTS…
    PAK ARMY TRAINS TERRORISTS AND NO OTHER ARMY DOES THAT THESE DAYS…

    THE ONLY EXPORT OF PAK IS TERRORISM AND WEST PAYS IT FOR NOT DOING IT. IN THE AFTERMATH OF 26/11 THE PAK ARMY HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND TOLD THAT BAITULLAH MEHSUD AND FAZLULLAH ARE PATRIOTS AND WOULD FIGHT ALONGSIDE THE PAK ARMY. MUSHARRAF HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT PAK MADE A LOT OF MONEY BY HANDING OVER ITS CITIZENZ TO USA. ALL THE ABROAD TRIPS MADE BY PAK ARMY AND PAK MINISTERS IS BASICALLY FOR ALMS. AN AVERAGE **** IS VIEWED AS A POTENTIAL TERRORIST IN WEST..\\

    IF IT WASNT FOR THE AMERICAN ALMS PAK WOULD NOT BE IN A POSTION TO PAY BACK LOANS

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    —————————————
    Only solution.
    —————————————

    The Pak state is rotten beyond repair. 90% of all terrorism accross the world originates from Pakistan, where the military has reduced the state to a criminal entity, and Pakistan here seem to love that military and its pauper government which collects alms for its military.

    Even the latest NY bomber is from Pakistan. What more cane we say of a state built by Yahya-Zia-Musharraf ??

    Anyway, zero contact with Pakistan is the only way out. No talks, No dialogues with a wilfully dishonest entity as it will serve no purpose.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    But your Government don’t seem inspired by “the only solution”. Pakistan is their MFN, its geo strategic location and nuclear capabilities make Pakistan indispensable in the eyes of India and the world at large.

    India has a lot of global pressure regarding continuation of dialog with Pakistan.

    ———————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

  • karuna

    Vinodji, I am a fan of yr cogent analyses but we seem to have gone into some other orbit. There is a slanging match among a bunch of non-serious people which is killing this debate. I believe that the recent restructuring or tweaking of Pakistan’s constitutional power devolution is very important because it will outlive Gilani, Zardari and Kayani (hopefully) and may provide for a better model of parliamentary democracy which people deserve everywhere in the world, including Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    I was begining to think there was no sane think across the border, and Karuna proved me wrong. We in Pakistan call it “Black Jacket Revolution” meaning all those black suited Lawyers who put so much pressure on the military government that Musharaf had to leave. Chief Justice has already started working wonders by providing justice to the poor. Tie this with the free media, all those criminal politicians are running helter shelter. Yes it will take time, but Inshallah we will come out of this mess more stronger. And now back to the show Rajeev, Rajiv, Yash, Paritsh and company.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    your nation is nothing but a joke. there is always some tumultous turn of power that makes headlines in many newspapers. whatever happens in the power play, Pakistan is going to remain a loser forever with a painful end.

    you compare India and China. why dont you dare to compare the s-h-i-t land of Porkistan with India. Pakistan hasnt got anything of its own. your nation is just a w-h-o-r-e.

    i guess Pakistan’s destruction will be so much deadly that even your Allah will run away

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    A typical Indian ranting away…You idiot the reason why I compared you idiots to China was size you are almost same but thats about it. You see the figure and statistics you guys look like fools, that was the purpose. Comparing yourself with a smaller country will boost your egos . We don’t give rats *** about your chest thumping,, Slumdogs

    Now go back to ego thumping discussions

    Rajeev Reply:

    How about comparing China with Germany and Japan? These are very small country but exceed China on every parameter except overall GDP.

    You must talk about yourself..stop acting as chinese tattey.

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Azhar

    it shows you are just another frustrated typical p-a-k-i moron.
    if India is not a developed nation in case ITS FAR MUCH DEVELOPED THAN PAKISTAN.
    you p-a-k-i pigs have a habit of criticising others while ignoring the faults of their own country.
    i feel pity for you miserable cockroaches

    shiney Reply:

    hey yes we are NOWHERE near china…..but how does it matter? our politicians have let us down, so have YOURS. but we have mechanisms to do course corrections, u are yet to chart your course.
    and please dont even bother to compare ur joke of a country to somalia also.
    Heard the latest about a **** being caught in US? Now wait and enjoy the spotlight growing bigger on u. Are u not ashamed of letting another country occupy ur territory and bomb ur own citizens?
    On China…..dont worry they have a lot of T’s to deal with starting from Taiwan to Tibet…..and by the way we heard about some massacre of muslims in one of the provinces of china…..didnt hear any murmur from u guys though? How come? Oh chinese are welcome to do anything?? anything?
    How do u know there are no gujarats in China? Only difference is no one has the guts to ban Hu Jintao from any country……….because Might Matters Sir!! Narendra modi became world renowned when US didnt give him Visa…….but US cant do that to anyone in China. If they can give visa to Dalai Lama…..they will be thanking their stars.
    If China tomm cleans up its entire country of undesirable matter (according to them, not me, im not biased!!)……im sure u pakis will still take aid from them
    if u have any self respect…….throw the chinese in ur country out if u really respect Islam. JOKERS.

    [Reply]

    shiney Reply:

    If ur so keen about being purposeful and sane in ur comments, u should have stuck to ur country first and then picked on others. Now u know y u guys arent getting anywhere after 50 years? Because u cant look within and God cant help those who dont help themselves right? :)
    But u know what when the fundamental basis of creation is wrong, nothing can ever get right after that no matter what. Try hard and wish all of u luck……..but all we are asking for is to be pls left alone.
    U dont like India, thats absolutely fine, leave us ALONE. y try to throw muck at someone else and expect us to help when ur now drowning in that much, learn to live with it.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ karuna

    even being an Indian , if you are so worried about Pakistan please pack up your bags and get lost!!
    we had enough of liberals like you.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    The guys like Karuna, should come up and show what has talks with Pakistan led to in last 60 years ??

    Will you do business with an entity , you know is wilfully deceitful ??

    Zulfikar Bhutto, signed the Shimla accord. India released the 93,000 Pakistani military men who had surrendered to India. Did Bhutto and Pakistan keep part of their deal or they reneged on it immediately ?

    What about Musharraf-Vajpayee accord where Pakistani president said he will not let militants use territory under Pak control against India ?

    Did he keep his word ? Did he dismantle LeT or does LeT continue to flourish ?
    Even today, LeT publishes and sells news papers preching war against India and arming militants under state tutelage. Daood Gilani ( Headley ) was under the direct tutelage of ISI officers.

    India signed the Indus water treaty, and even through so many wars and terrorist strikes, India has honored all the treaty obligations. That speaks highly of India.

    What does India get in return ?
    Pakistan falsely accuses India of stealing waters. It uses the treaty to delay Indian projects to the maximum extent possible. Every time it goes to independent Indus water commission, after delaying Indian projects for years, the commission rules invariably in India’s favour, sometimes with cosmetic changes.

    Are guys not aware of this venal nature of Pak governments, civilian and military ?
    They have abused Indian generosity. Even today, India does not take all the waters due to it under Indus treaty. Go and read even the Pak comissioner on that and they concdede it.

    Whats the point in doing business with a wilfully deceitful entity ?

    Just mouthing generous views, may sound good but have brought enormous more damage to India, with nothing to show for. You need an intelligent policy towards Pakistan and for that you first need to make a dispassionate judgement about the entity you are doing business with.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    We are like peas in a pod, but with a difference! What affects them has a deleterious effect on us. What happens here may not find even an echo there, since we are like 25 pakistans. Thus my worry, yr bags and yr loss.

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Paritosh,
    Mind your language please. This blog isn’t for bullies. You may disagree with Karuna but you cannot ask her to get lost.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    she can visit the blog , but people of her ilk shouldnt stay in this country

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Paritosh and other Seniks should take a lessons of peace from people like Karuna

    ———————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Well said Karuna = ) I liked your positive approach, I request those Indian friends who are indulging in bullying to think beyond war and appreciate recent developments in Pakistan.

    ——————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    @paritosh!
    ” … she can visit the blog but people of her ilk shouldnt stay in this country”
    didn’t know that you were the blog Administrator . Are you also the Country Head of some Organization?

    @ tanzeel “recent developments in Pakistan” ?? We are talking of a mere candle in the wind.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    @Karuna

    Recent developments as in restoration of 1973 constitution that was subsequently moulded by Army generals and their crooked politicians according to their convenience, they held major decision making powers including toppling the parliament with them. Now the 1973 constitution has been restored and the powers are given back to Prime minister.

    It might be mere candle in the strong wind but it a sincere attempt to bring country into a system that will ultimately provide relief to International community including India who have always blamed Pakistan Army for derailing the peace process in the region through by encouraging Jihad.

    ———————————————-
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

  • yash

    @ all pakistanis

    ONE MORE FEATHER IN PAKISTANIS CAP

    “Pak links to failed NY bomb plot established”

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Terrorism is a global phenomena, it should not be restricted to one country only. He was an American citizen, it was US responsibility to keep an eye on his activities however Pakistan will cooperate and find mechanics of the activity and possible Indian hand behind this.

    ———————————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    He has admitted that he underwent training in Pakistan…. just like many other terrorists before him …..eg London subway bombers, shoe bomber, Ajmal kasav, WTO bomber etc etc….the list goes on isnt it ?

    He became a US citizen before that he was a Proud Pakistani citizen………..

    Terrorism has to be the only export of Pakistan…..these days whenever you find Pakistan in news its due to terrrorism…. One is not really surprised since Pak Army claimed that Baitullah and Fazlullah are patriots and will fight alongside the Pak Army… Pakistanis will have to do some soul searching as to this how they want their nation to recognised as……….

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Has he admitted this in court ? Just wait for the court verdict then we can only comment on this issue.

    As far as export of terrorism is country I find it usual rhetorical from Indians and don’t take seriously. If anything is wrong with Pakistan, get it treated by Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan but unfortunately this issue is not even UN sent to security counsel because they know Pakistan is itself a victim of terrorism.

    yash Reply:

    Even UN has prepared a report that was published last month saying Pakistan is breeding ground for terrorists.

    so many countries have made the statement that “all roads lead to Islamabad”…..
    Your president Zardari gave a speech that Pak has haroboured terrorists before
    your government has admitted that 26/11 barbarian ******** came from Pak
    your army referred to Baitullah and FAZLULLAH AS PATRIOTS
    ADDRESS THE ABOVE POINTS

    PAK IS A VICTIM OF ITS OWN TERRORISM

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel

    i guess that , you will accept this truth that the haven of all the terrorists is Pakistan, only when the western powers start re-iterating this statement and then finally assault Pakistan

    Pakistan is not a victim , but a perpetrator of terror. you cockroaches die a miserable death as a consequence of your own actions. over the years you have spent millions of US dollars for building terror infrastructure and now you dogs are howling.

    as an Indian i strongly believe that you P@KEE PIGS should be massacred mercilessly.

    Tanzeel Reply:

    @Paristosh, I can understand your frustration and anger as you sitting otherside of the border can’t do much to Pakistanis neither your Government however I reiterate if you really believe Pakistan is a perpetrator of terror, I humbly request you to get a plea lodged in international courts and let US or even India attack on us.

    It makes Pakistanis smile seeing Indians merely howling on a nuclear Pakistan and at the same time giving their daughters to get married with Pakistani men.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Tanzeel,
    There are many pakistani females married to Indians (even hindus).
    Your statement is very childish.

    I have seen pakistanis frowning on Balochistan and Indus water. We can wipe smile of your face in many ways but we are not doing it because India is currently governed by pro-pakistan UPA govt.

    yash Reply:

    @PAKISTANIS

    Its a pity….. even when your pants are on fire you cant see the evil ………..

    An Pakistani is either viewed as terrorist or as a beggar in other countries ….that should speak voulmes about your nation…..

    Its a tradition to move to Husbands place after marriage… but Sania chose Dubai… that itself speaks as to what she thinks about your moth eaten nation…. by they way after the reception in Pak she called the guests in the reception as disgusting bunch in an interview to Pak news paper

    [Reply]

  • (Dr.) B.N.Anand

    Dear Vinod Sharma ji
    I am not sure whether an empowered Gillani will be able to have any upper hand wrt to Kyani in Pakistan establishment or not. But an empowered Gillani had the temerity to claim in NA of Pakistan that he had forced the Indian PM to talk to Pakistan on both Kashmir and water. While all the time Pakistan begs to talk to India, once India consents to talk for some strategic reason, it is taken as our weakness to have given in to Pakistan. The same thing happened at the time foreign secretary meeting. If we look back , PM Bhutto had begged (late) Mrs Gandhi at shimla after 1971 war not to put any conditions in black and white about Kashmir before agreeing to release Pakistani POWs. He had assured orally that he will do whatever is desired of him with refgard to the settlement of Kashmir but the POWs must be released without any conditions. Mrs. Gandhi was generous to accept the request. But as soon as Mr. Bhutto reached Pakistan, he boasted that he had won on the negotiating table what the Pakistani army had lost in the battle ground.
    What are your views with regard to such utterings? It does pain the Indian people who start wondering whether indeed our PM gave in to Pakistan under any pressure.
    Regards
    BNA
    .

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Greetings Dr Anand,

    Although your comments are directed towards Mr Sharma but I would like to have exchange of some views.

    Sir, firstly the initiative of current talks are something not under the direction of Pakistan. Viewing indian media news and websites it comes as to surprise to most of living on this side that how can a nation that had witnessed so much export of terror towards itself at the hands of Pakistan be ready for talks with Pakistan? Conditional or unconditional that is separate. Did that came as an external pressure from US? Many critics had voiced this factor and even in India large masses criticised the UPA government for showing soft corner and inviting a vile neighbour at table.

    Following some of the previous blogs on HT and even with Mr Sharma’s previous wrtings we came to witness Indian foreign policy hijacked from various other factors. As to who runs the policy matters? Clearly, hinting external factors or some other sources. There is still a question mark in the minds of many of us. This is the third time in a row (a pattern) where if Pakistan is guilty we witnessed India offering a hand of friendship. Surely, I take this positively as a good will from a country who apparently is showing a big heart to still invite a neighbour for peaceful future and not a weakness, BUT is Pakistan really stupid enough to invite troubles from India knowing it had already invited trouble at the hands of militants in north west? invited troubles by being neighbour to war torn country Afghanistan-thinking they grew terror opium? Even thinking that military rules this country, i have all the doubts whatever face Pakistan has, after 9/11 things have changed, either forcefully/unwillingly/purposely exporting terror is never in the good interest of Pakistan now.

    For 1972 Shimla accord, do you know when did India released POWs? The actual action came three years after head of states met not immediately. India purposely freed them not under dictation of Z A Bhutto but on growing heavy price and cost on India’s head. 1984 Siachen Glacier escalation by India was what we witnessed next on list when it as agreed that both will recognize each other’s stand on Kashmir and would respect LAC. However, this went down in mistrust.

    I understand the pain of an individual when these events are witnessed but where is the second eye of validation?

    Regards,
    Usman

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Usman

    Maybe sometimes read the real facts,
    ——————————-
    Shimla Agreement.
    ——————————
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

    In 1972 the Simla Agreement was signed between India and Pakistan, the treaty ensured that Pakistan recognized the independence of Bangladesh in exchange for the return of the Pakistani PoWs. India treated all the PoWs in strict accordance with the Geneva Convention, rule 1925[26]. It released more than 90,000 Pakistani PoWs in five months[64]. Further, as a gesture of goodwill, nearly 200 soldiers who were sought for war crimes by Bengalis were also pardoned by India.

    The accord also gave back more than 13,000 km² of land that Indian troops had seized in West Pakistan during the war, though India retained a few strategic areas[65]; most notably Kargil (which would in turn again be the focal point for a war between the two nations in 1999). This was done as a measure of promoting “lasting peace” and was acknowledged by many observers as a sign of maturity by India. But some in India felt that the treaty had been too lenient to Bhutto, who had pleaded for leniency, arguing that the fragile democracy in Pakistan would crumble if the accord was perceived as being overly harsh by Pakistanis and that he would be accused of losing Kashmir in addition to the loss of East Pakistan”

    ——————————————————————-End of quote from Wikipedia

    Conclusion :
    India generosity will be met equally by Pak mendacity.
    Foolish for India to engage such a duplicitous and fraudulent entity

    [Reply]

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    I willfully agree and I’m aware of that. The point underneath was in the second part of the para. After a goodwill gesture why was the need to go after Siachen? Wasn’t it sufficient enough to go by the accord.

    My next question for you is: During the internal civil war of Bengali Movement, why did we ended up fighting with India? Had it been internal political/military conflict why we see you as fighting with us? Any views?
    Don’t copy/paste text from websites, that i’m aware of.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Usman saheb
    It is a pleasure to interact with you any time and to exchange views. Sir, it is also a matter oof great bewilderment to all of us here as to why the Indian govt. succumbs in its temptation to resume dialogue with the Pakistan leaders even after we have been the targets of their terrorists attacks( Kargil , Parliament attack and 26/11 etc. etc.) and many wars. That is even after the FM of Pakistan says at Thimpu that Mr. Manmohan Singh is a man of peace but the congress party does not support him in his intentions of talking to Pakistan. In a way to create a wedge between the PM and his party. Again , the Pakistan PM feels so empowered that he makes a non complimentary statement in NA of Pakistan about Indian PM after retuning from Thimpu. I believe the Paskistan leaders first ask for concessions from India govt. during negotiations on personal basis and then claim to Pakistan public about their outsmarting the Indian leaders on the negotiating table. Is it that something that Pakistan people feel more happy at such situations ? It surely serves the Pakistan leaders well in their home constituency. Well, they may feel empowered but it does create an illusion in the minds of Pakistan people that they can browbeat our country in any field. That is dangerous.
    I am sure Pakistan people must know that hardly anythiong can be achieved by following such line. Even this illusion is carried by the media. One of the sport writer in Dawn says that Pakistan would have felt the impact of defeat against Australia much less only if India had also not defeated S. Africa in the current 20-20 world cup. Look at the complex . Why the writer has to cite this in order to console the people in Pakistan about their loss to Australia?They should realise that we are two different countries. While Indian- American living in USA win Nobel prizes (In Chemistry this year) and can become the Dean of Harvard University (first time in 102 years old history of the university), the Pakistan- American, Faizal Shahzad, fully educated and qualified and with a very healthy background looks to bomb Times square in NY. Please think over it and do enlighten me.
    But still our leaders like to talk to your govt. though not many people in our country support such a dialogue.That is a real mystery.
    Regards
    BNA

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    @Usman,
    India gave back 13,000 sq km in West Pakistan and Kashmir after 1971 war.
    India and Indira Gandhi, expected Pak to give up anti-India activities.
    India expected, Indian genorosity to be reciprocated.
    But just the opposite happened !

    India was fooled. The Siachen part, a frozen glaciar, was left undemarkated after 1971 war. It was neither occupied by India or Pak and had no LoC.
    Then in early 1980-ties, Pak started to claim that area. It started sending army patrols and giving permits to mountain expeditions to that area for foreigners.
    Thats when India moved and establsihed control. It would have been better , if that area was left unoccupied but Pak’s claims forced India’s hand.

    Regarding Bangladesh, go back and read independent accounts. Pak army carried out the worst genocide since WW11 and butchered about a million of its own citizens , called Pakistanis of east Pakistan. in just 3 months ( 10 million Pakistanis fled to India for protection ) . Compare that to 1-2 millin Afghan refugees created over 30 years. Eastern India was overwhelmed and India helped Mukti Bahini to fight back against the genocide.

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Hello Anand Sahab,

    Surely, you sounded more this time then any of our previous dialogues. The first thing is indeed that we have a question mark just like the way most of the Indian people have about mystery of talks after the events you mentioned. I don’t know why do most of the Indians can’t recall the mysterious hijacking of an Indian Airline that took off from Ahmedabad airport and eventually landed into Delhi. Immediately roumers went alive of hijacking an air plane by islamic fundamentalists who want the plane to be taken to Lahore. The reply from this side was to gun down the plane “Na rahay ga baans .. na bajay gi bansarri”. After landing on Delhi it revealed a rehearsal of hijacked situation. Good Lord! Had that been the situation I’m sure we would have been fighting with each other. Meaning: a staged drama to defame and dilute more to the name of Pakistan. What can i say more about this!. This is where we eye more suspeciously on rest of the events (except for Kargil).

    For the situation where we boost our chest as if we have outsmarted India on table and on ground is true and unture as well. Things are viewed differently in Pakistan for instance India’s presence in Afghanistan is something important for us, of which the intelligence had already been aware of, what purpose does India serve? is this another of the foxy traits that our neighbour possess? Likewise, how did the Mumbai masterminds crossed all the way from sind to mumbai without catching the eye of coast guards and indian navy? Because such a master piece needs an internal hand to fulfill a mission of this caliber. Also Mr Kakare’s mysterious death who himself was involved in the case of pursuing Col Prohit in Samjhota Express massacre is another mystery. These incidents have different preseptions to people in Pakistan put in simple words and not just waging a war by a handful of bandits on a country. I’m sure had it been ISI sponsored things would have still continued. Some of us assume another such massacare in near future keeping in view previous patterns. God Forgive!

    I remember your words and even would like to paste it :

    Kamran says:
    May 5, 2010 at 1:57
    We won’t progress unless we come out of the Indian inferiority complex. Focus on what you do best and stop looking over…..

    Reply
    (Dr.) B.N.Anand from India says:
    May 5, 2010 at 12:16
    Sir
    You have very rightly commented. Why this unnecessary complex? May be any victory by Pakistan may not bring as much smile to people of Pakistan as any defeat to India in any international sporting event. The author indeed is being myopic in his comments while the Pakistan people on the whole seem to be more realistic.
    BNA

    Ref: http://blog.dawn.com/2010/05/04/down-but-not-out/#comments

    What is the ending part about “realistic ” you are referring to? I’m unable to grasp. Would you like to throw some light. Besides, highly miser on author’s part that i have to admit.
    Living in denial and with complex wont last long. I’m guilty over here.

    I wish i could talk long with you on these issues but time doesn’t permit me in writing. Would like to know your part.

    Regards,
    Usman

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    @Rajiv,

    Pakistan had cleared its boundry disputes with China way back in late 50s. Since then and even before that we had foreigners coming over to northern part and expeditions to conquer K-2 (Karakuram II, second highest mountain in the world). The claim was since 1947 not in 80s and there were no army patrols, absurd accusing. We moved our troops after your advancement in the area. The conditions doesn’t allow to fight against India but rather the killing climate and that area doesn’t have landscape as plain grounds but killer mountains. This I’m saying on personal beliefs of those who have been, lived in those conditons at that time.

    Do you know what does this mean “Eastern India was overwhelmed and India helped Mukti Bahini to fight back against the genocide “. I interpret this as an external interference. Irrespective of what has happened I feel sorry for myself and towards Bengalis what gave you the right and upper hand?

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Usman Saheb

    What I really meant was that most Pakistani commentators to this blog were posting the views which were deprecating the views of the author of the blogger in the first paragraph of the blog cited by you. Is it not the case of a well said saying ” one’s pride is neighbour’s jealousy”?
    I appreciate your realising that it is no good to live in self denial and wish there are more people like you who believe in realities.That is the problem with our relations with your country. It happened in the case of Kasab as well when the whole Pakistan TV channels were putting comedy shows to tell people how India has baked a story of a Pakstan national being responsible for Mumbai carnage. This continued until the Dawn and Geo channels dug out Faridkot village where Kasab had confessed to have belonged to. The record was set straighht by Pakistan media. Ultimately, the govt. had to admit the fact. Of course, there was an embarrassement all around in Pakistan, but then it was reality.
    I hope you agree, Afghanistan has become important to us after IC-814 episode. We are taking care of our interests, as any one has a right to do. While Talibans were in power, it was a happy situation for your country and your country built it as a “strategic depth” for any future war against our country. Well, that concept of “strategic depth” has now been decried even in your own media lately.But when things changed, our country too wanted some space in that country for watching our interests after the embarrassment caused to this nation. The terrosist organisation Jaish was founded by Mohd Azhar after his release at Kabul.
    It is always a pleasure to interact with you and I am glad you are chasing me at other places as well.
    Regards
    BNA

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Hello Dr Anand,

    The case of IC 814 is well remembered that eventually ended up in Kabul. But the same flight had spent some hours at Amritsar, Lahore and even in Khatmandu airport. Had that been the situation Azhar Masood would have been easily demanded at Lahore airport.
    Anyway since India is happy to be in Afghanistan and assuming for good interests then i have no concern except for one that with every incident on Indians in Afghanistan we get the blame where everyone else is also suffering at the hands of Hizbe Islami and Taliban and not just India.

    Its been good discussion with you and not following you :) but rather just a coincedence that i too read Dawn blogs and read your comments alongside your name.

    Salam,
    Usman

  • auma

    pakistan has to be dealt with in a completely objective manner. Absolutely no room for emotions-feelings or sentiments of any kind.

    Our dear PM is treading a soft line precisely because he sees the issue in a broader context than most of us. He wants India to focus & remained focussed on a faster economic development.
    pakistani terrorism will continue to be an unavoidable nuisance. for the coming decades. Like Israel we need to focus on targeted assasinations of key pakistani punjabis . no room for mercy for those chaps.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    I was reading a column from Javed Naqvi (DAWN). He remarked that Manmohan Singh is the only unelected head of state in SAARC countries thus he is less empowered compared to his counterparts. I do agree with this assertion.

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Given the record of past 60 years, I would advise those that desire dialogue with Pakistan, to first wait for some rudimentary evidense that the
    powers that control Pakistan desire normal, civilized relations with India.

    Do you have any evidense of that ?
    History of last 60 years suggests that In Pakistan India has an irrational and foolish enemy.
    If Pakistan was a rational enemy then there was hope as both would agree to steps that were for common good.
    But thats not the case.

    Till then remember Jinnah’s words ( atleast he was right for once ! )

    “each successive government of Pakistan will be worse than its predecessor. …”
    ( You can google the quote for links )

    – Regarding Javed Naqvi, he is among the most venal, anti-India Pak scribe you can find, who spews lies and venom and is loved by the ‘Pak establsihment’..

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    i honestly believe that in India we seriously need to have some anti-Pakistan education because perhaps this will stop another generation of liberals coming to rise. this seems much impractical, but this surely would work

    we have a very weak public memory by which we dont learn any lessons and forget the past experiences. it is in our mentality that makes us a weak nation.

    we need to become aggressive so that we can stick thousands of bombs in a-s-s of those P-a-k-i-s and show them their deserved place.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Pakistan permit you to use this option as well. Go ahead!

    ——————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel

    pray to your Allah that this never happens ( though its inevitable). if it does, you cockroaches will be completely wiped off.

    Paritosh Reply:

    the inherently denying attitude of the P-a-k-i-s shows that these people are forever born losers. no logical argument or discussion can work for them. the only language they understand is that of fire power and violence and India needs to talk in it.

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    ROFL this is what I ve been insisting. Try power on us. We are waiting!

    ——————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel

    ha ha ha ha!!! this is what i call a self destructive entity. so you guys think that you are gonna do the power play in any possible war.

    you are just cockroaches that can be quashed

    dont worry dear P-A-K-I. your wish would be fulfilled

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Still waiting for the consequence of aggression India at the time of 26/11 exhibited. Now, calm down just like India. Don’t be in a lather.

    ____________________________
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel

    not now though , but eventually sometime in the future. this is an inevitable disaster that you pigs will face. the missile will even hit straight in your Allah’s a-s-s.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Rajiv,
    Unfortunately Javed Naqvi is an Indian who in the garb of liberalism is anti-Indian.
    The people like him should be put in jail for supporting terror against India. Infact most of views on 26/11 are very similar to those of pakistanis.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    @USMAN
    Maybe sometimes read the real facts,
    ——————————-
    Shimla Agreement.
    ——————————
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

    In 1972 the Simla Agreement was signed between India and Pakistan, the treaty ensured that Pakistan recognized the independence of Bangladesh in exchange for the return of the Pakistani PoWs. India treated all the PoWs in strict accordance with the Geneva Convention, rule 1925[26]. It released more than 90,000 Pakistani PoWs in five months[64]. Further, as a gesture of goodwill, nearly 200 soldiers who were sought for war crimes by Bengalis were also pardoned by India.

    The accord also gave back more than 13,000 km² of land that Indian troops had seized in West Pakistan during the war, though India retained a few strategic areas[65]; most notably Kargil (which would in turn again be the focal point for a war between the two nations in 1999). This was done as a measure of promoting “lasting peace” and was acknowledged by many observers as a sign of maturity by India. But some in India felt that the treaty had been too lenient to Bhutto, who had pleaded for leniency, arguing that the fragile democracy in Pakistan would crumble if the accord was perceived as being overly harsh by Pakistanis and that he would be accused of losing Kashmir in addition to the loss of East Pakistan”

    ——————————————————————-End of quote from Wikipedia

    Conclusion :
    India generosity will be met equally by Pak mendacity.
    Foolish for India to engage such a duplicitous and fraudulent entity.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    @USMAN,

    HI HOW ARE YOU ? BACK AFTER A LONG TIME.

    I HAVE JUST ONE QUESTION FOR YOU.

    PAK GOVERNMENT HAS ADMITTED THAT LASHKAR-E-TAIBA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 26/11. THIS ORGANISATION IS HEADED BY B_A_S_T_AR_D HAFEEZ SAYEED. DONT YOU THINK THE LEADER SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ORGANISATION ACTIONS ? ISNT OSAMA HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR AL-QAIDAS ACTION ? IF L-E-T IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 26/11 THEN WHAT STOPS THE PAK GOVERNMENT FROM ARRESTING HIM ? SOUNDS LIKE A BANANA REPUBLIC ….

    THANKS,
    YASH

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    When and where did Pak Govt admitted that LeT was involved in 26/11 ? Any Source ?

    ——————————–
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    UR INTERIOR MINISTER REHMAN MAILK HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE IN WHICH HE ADMITTED THAT KASAB IS A **** AND LeT WAS REPONSIBLE WAS 26/11……… IT WAS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE…………..

    BY THE WAY DID U READ THE ARTICLE THE IN THE PREMIER NEWS PAPER “THENEWS” ABOUT PAK EXPORTING TERROR ?

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    I am still waiting for links that support your claim.

    vijay Kumar Reply:

    Er, what were Mani SAhankar aiyar’s qualifications that he was the sportsminister?

    On a sports fireld he could only have pretended to be a football and nothing else….:)

    :) ha ha :)

    Usman Chaudhry Reply:

    Greetings Yash,

    I’m good thank you!. He is already in custody. Your question i assume is “What stops the Pak government from punishing/sentencing him?”. For that the trial is in progress and Pakistan had sought Indian assistance regarding mumbai massacare on this. But the end result is grim from Indian prespective thinking Pak establishment would let him go away on weak evidence.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    @TANZEEL AND ALL PAKISTANIS

    YOU WERE SAYING THAT “PAKS TERROR EXPORT” IS AN INDIAN STORY..

    PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE IS PAK NEWS PAPER “THENEWS” DATED MAY-06-2010. ATLEAST NOT ALL THE PAKISTANIS ARE DUMB LIKE YOU

    Terror export

    Thursday, May 06, 2010
    Even as exports from Pakistan fall in so many other spheres, there is one item that goes out to the world in larger and larger quantities from our country. Sadly, this brings in no monetary benefits and no goodwill. Today, it often seems that what we export most often is terrorism. The arrest in New York of a Pakistan-American, even as he boarded a plane that would have taken him to Dubai, acts to confirm this in the eyes of the world. Even if we, as Pakistanis, know that most people in the country oppose terrorism and have no sympathies with those who make killing a mission, the fact is that many in other places see Pakistanis as terrorists. The impact of this has come in the form of the unleashing of racist violence and all kinds of more subtle discrimination. In one way or another, tens of thousands of Pakistanis have suffered. The question is whether enough is being done to stop the export of violence and ensure that a softer, more flattering spotlight is directed towards Pakistan. The arrest of Faisal Shahzad indicates that the mindset which spurs on terrorism has poisoned even those who enjoy wealth and privilege.

    Perhaps our thesis that it is essentially the poor who are exploited by the militants is somewhat flawed. Perhaps we need to do more to stop the slow poisoning of minds. A process of brainwashing has continued for years. It needs to be reversed. The strategy for this must be worked out. Psychologists, educators, media people, clerics and others with social influence need to be involved. We must convince people, particularly the young, that militancy and extremism threaten to destroy all that is good about their country. They must play a part in building for it a different future. The story of an educated young man of Pakistani origin in New York, with a family and from a wealthy background, who was apparently willing to risk so much by planting a bomb which was intended to kill ordinary men, women and children should act as an eye-opener to the kind of problems we have allowed to fester in our midst. It is only by changing this that we can hope to move towards a brighter future and a different image for Pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    THE ABOVE ARTICLE HAS APPEARED IN THE EDITORIAL SECTION

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Hello Yash ji
    Surely, this is an eye opening editorial coming in Pakistan newspaper. Such confessions and introspections are very rare in Pakistan society. It seems the shame of being tagged as a terrorist state has started the minset of the people over there gravitiating to at least honestly looking back. At least I am convinced this introspection is only meant as a showcase for the western society. There is no remorse in the Pakistani society as for as we are concerned whether it was Kargil adventure, Parliament attack or 26/11 Mumbai carnage. If we are proud of our achievements, that is surely a cause of envy for our neighbour. The difference can be seen while an qualified and educated Indian-American can become a Dean of Harvard university , a ualifed and an educated Pakistani- American can think of bombing the Times square. It will be further an irony that an Indian-American attorney Preet Bharara , will stand as a prosecutor to punish a Pakistan-American Faisal Shahzad.
    Regards
    BNA

    BNA

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    I have closely read most of Pak English media , for last 20 years.
    My conclusions…

    1. Its the Pak establishment ( read the UN definition of it ) , that influences Pak media.

    2. Its that criminal, corrput Pak establsihment that carries on constant anti-India propoganda , which is repeated by Pak media like
    1. Baluchistan revolt is done by India
    2. Swat Taleban, was aided and abetted by India
    3. India is stealing Pak waters
    4. India is committing genocide in Kashmir
    5. Indian consulates in Afganistan train terrorists

    3. They keep repeating the lies and then the masses in Pakistan start believing it.

    4. The civilian government, living in fear of Pak army, does not contradict these lies and re-inforces them.

    5. New Pak propoganda line from establishment, as it continues to protect and promote
    Lashker-E-Toiba against India.

    1. Lie 1 : Terrorism is a global phenomenon.
    They call Daood Gilani ( son of a Pak diplomat who worked for Pak army/ISI and changed his name to Headley to conduct terrorism against India, so that he is not detected ) , an American and evidense of Global Phenomenon.

    The fact that Pakistanis from all over the world, from Italy to Spain to USA were involved in Mumbai attack, is suppose to be evidense of the global phenomenon !

    2. Lie No 2 : Pakistan is victim of terrorism.
    Thats like saying , Hitler was victim of Nazis, because he died.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Rajiv

    the list of false accusations by Pakistan that you have presented here is something that the p-a-k-i-s are taught in their schools as history and in newspapers as articles. it is vain to talk any logic to these losers. thats the reason they support these accusations as truth.

  • vijay Kumar

    :) :) :) Hi EVERYONE, especially AGENT VINOD (of congress) :) :) :)

    Dear Uncle Vinod,

    The Big Question is NOT whether Gilani can stand upto Kiyani.

    After both GIlani and Kiyani peobably eat Biryani together and only innocent Indians think that one is a hardliner, the other must be a softie. Hello no… both are as united in trying to damage India, as GIlani’s cousin Dawood GIlani or David Headley was trying to do.

    :) :) :) ____________________ :) :)

    THe big question for us Indians shold be whether Gilani can stand upto Dawood Ibrahim, Hafeez Saed, Lakhvi, Azhar Masood and other criminals who actually dictate what Pakistan does….:)

    Waiting for a response from all of you……

    Vijay

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    I agree with Vijay , as far as war against terrorism is concerned, Pakistan doesn’t want its soil to be used by any terrorist, we take precise actions against non state actors but not on India’s call obviously.

    [Reply]

    shiney Reply:

    Can u list out specific actions taken till date please, including convictions and punishments doled out? When u say that pakistan doesnt want its soil to be used by any terrorist, we really appreciate that but given the number of them on ur territory can u let us know where they all emerged from?
    From ur and ur government’s comments seems like all terrorists emerged overnight out of nowhere and are out to destroy ur country.
    Whats ur definition of a terrorist? Do u really have one?
    What about terror driven by state actors? :) different rules for that i suppose.
    Stop this HYPOCRISY and why dont u just come out in the open and say what u mean, do what u mean. Enough of this shadow boxing.
    Tragedy of our country is after so many years, there are columnists like Mr.Sharma who still try to think indian public are stupid enuf to believe that some stupid constituitional change will change Pak’s attitude to India. This is the level of thinking of our senior journos, god save us from the juniors. God know whether its innocence or the overriding desire to be so objective that objectivity loses meaning!!

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    On going successful Military operations in tribal areas of Pakistan

    ___________________________
    http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Beta Vijay,
    sabsey pahley angrezi padhna sekho. blog dubara padho aur samjoh uska message (sandesh) kya hai. smile icons laga kar apney abhadrata ko chupaney ki koshish mat karo. tum vhp/bajrang dal key agent ho main yeh janta hun.
    namaskar

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Sharma thinks that all those who speak Indian language are low class. Nice going…

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ——————————————————————————————-
    When engaging Pakistan, India should always remember..
    ——————————————————————————————-

    If you engage your neighbourhood thug, lout and begger, you will always repent it.

    Zero contact with Pak is the safest option.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ————————————————————————————–
    Time for some positive news.
    ————————————————————————————–

    Firstever Kashmiri tops UPSC ( India’s civil services exam )

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/First-ever-Kashmiri-tops-UPSC/H1-Article1-540228.aspx

    Shah Faesal (26), a doctor from Srinagar and son of a school teacher killed by militants, became the first Kashmiri to top the civil services exam. The results were announced on Thursday.

    “I have no words to describe my happiness,” Faesal, a 2008 batch graduate of the Jhelum Valley Medical College, said in Delhi on Thursday.

    “My achievement has helped break a stereotype about my community,” said Faesal, who cracked the Union Public Service Commission (UPSC) exam in his first attempt. “It will be an inspiration and set precedence for the people of Kashmir.”

    An RTI activist, a columnist in a Srinagar daily and a doctor, Faesal always wanted to “do something big”, said his mother Mubeena.

    “It’s a matter of great honour for the family,” said Mubeena, a teacher, her eyes brimming with tears. She only wished her husband, Ghulam Mohd Shah, were alive to share the family’s joy. Ghulam was killed in 2002.

    “I really miss my father at this point in time,” Faesal said.

    This was the second violent death in the family. Earlier, Mubeena’s brother, Irshad, had died “in cross-firing”, Mubeena said.

    Faesal said he had first-hand experience with insurgency violence, and wanted to “bridge the communication gap between the people of Kashmir and the government”.

    Of the 875 candidates who qualified the 2009 civil services exam, 680 are men and 195 women. Prakash Rajpurohit, an engineering graduate from IIT-Delhi, came second. Iva Sahay from JNU, who bagged the third rank, was the first among woman candidates.

    [Reply]

  • Ryan Paul

    Rajeev Srinivasan has written a brilliant piece in Rediff.com pertaining to the ongoing discussion. The link is http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/may/06/rajeev-srinivasan-on-the-banality-of-evil.htm. The details are as under :

    The banality of evil.

    In the aftermath of the Ajmal Kasab [ Images ] trial and the failed bomb attack in New York, the impartial observer would find it hard to conclude that Pakistanis were mild, inoffensive people. But in fact there are a number of people — apart from the professional Wagah candle-holders — who cannot believe that this kind of horror could come from the kind of Pakistanis they know — PLUs (people like us), urbane, sophisticated, great hosts and dinner companions.
    There is, of course, the fallacy of rapid generalisation: Every Pakistani is not like the people you know, who are likely to be the world-traveling sort. There are many dirt-poor, uneducated people who have been brainwashed with strange notions of what India [ Images ]ns are like and what India is like. Given high population growth and a fairly stagnant economy, the number of these ‘Bottom-of-the-Pyramid’ people is much larger than those at the top of the pyramid, the 22 ruling feudal families who own the place.

    But apart from the logical fallacy, there is also a more subtle issue, that of how easily evil can take over even perfectly normal, well-adjusted people. It turns out you don’t have to be a sociopath to do the most horrifying things: Your random neighbours, like the kindly old man down the street, the kid who drops off the newspaper, the old lady who is full of religious zeal — any and all of them can turn into monsters under the appropriate circumstances.

    This was demonstrated in Cambodia, when under the Khmer Rouge, perfectly ordinary people became mass killers. I have been to the Tuol Sleng prison and interrogation centre in the middle of Phnom Penh, where thousands of people were tortured, and confessions extracted from them. They were photographed and meticulous dossiers prepared about each of them. They were then taken to the Killing Fields on the outskirts of town and dispatched with a blow to the back of the head with a spade.

    But what is most amazing about Tuol Sleng is that it was formerly a school in the middle of a residential neighbourhood! It still looks like an inoffensive school from outside, although inside it is the Genocide Museum, with the interrogation cells left as they were, harrowing paintings of inhuman torture, and row after row of black and white photographs of those who were about to die, including some Indians and other foreigners.

    It is a metaphor for the banality and very ordinariness of evil. The Khmer Rouge were the greatest mass-murderers in the recent past, killing some 15 per cent of their compatriots.

    Ordinary Cambodians — farmers, artisans, bicycle-repairers, fishermen — were instruments of civilisational suicide. Similarly, perfectly normal Hutus went on the warpath in Rwanda against embattled Tutsis, attempting genocide. Ordinary Germans did the bidding of the Nazis; ordinary Europeans participated in an orgy of violence on innocent people during the horrifying Inquisition, dispatching thousands, especially women, in the most appalling ways.

    And so with the Pakistanis. The young men of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ] and other terrorist outfits were not monsters to begin with: They were turned into what they are quite deliberately — they have been manufactured by a consciously-created system where they have no choice but to become monsters.

    I was reminded of all this when I was listening to an archived podcast from 2007 of an interview with Philip Zimbardo, a retired professor from Stanford, whose celebrated ‘Stanford Prison Experiment’ of 1971 was a startling practical demonstration of how evil is engendered.

    In 2006, Zimbardo wrote a new book, The Lucifer Effect because he was struck by similarities between the Abu Ghraib prison scandal in Iraq and the Stanford experiment.

    The experiment was simple: Zimbardo set up a simulated prison in the basement of one of Stanford’s buildings, and recruited 24 normal male college students for a two-week study of the behaviour of prison guards and prisoners. The students were randomly assigned to either role and given uniforms or prison smocks to wear, but no specific instructions on behaviour except that there must be no physical contact. Zimbardo himself acted as both ‘jail superindendent’ and research leader.

    The results were startling: Within 36 hours, the ‘guards’ started misbehaving, exerting their power over the ‘prisoners’. One of the prisoners had a nervous breakdown. Within three days, the guards were exhibiting brutal, sadistic behaviour, and the prisoners were increasingly humiliated and oppressed. Several other prisoners also had nervous breakdowns. On the night of day five, sexual torture began: The prisoners were made to expose themselves, and to simulate sodomy with each other.

    On the sixth day, a shaken Zimbardo abandoned the experiment, which had been slated to run for two weeks. He was shocked to realise that certain dangerous boundaries were being crossed, and that some of the participants might end up with permanent psychological damage.

    The fact that perfectly normal, intelligent college students — they had been screened for any abnormality — could so easily be turned into sadistic monsters is astonishing. Apparently the situation had gotten the better of them: Perhaps the normal human condition is indeed the Hobbesian ‘nasty, brutish and short’. Maybe Lord of the Flies, the book about a group of boys abandoned on an island evolving into a dictatorial society, is all too true.

    Perhaps the Law of the Jungle is indeed the right metaphor, much as we like to think of ourselves as civilised beyond fang and claw and might-is-right.

    In a related study, the Milgram Experiment at Yale analysed the willingness of volunteers to administer electric shocks to unseen victims based on orders from authority figures. It turned out that — with no gender differences — people were quite willing to torture people whom they had never met. (The shocks were simulated, and so were the recorded screams of the recipients, but the subjects didn’t know that.)

    Zimbardo believes that it is not the individual’s own inherent tendencies, but the social situation around them that drives bad behaviour. That can help us understand the pathology of the Pakistani situation. These young men have been told for such a long time that Indians and Hindus are evil and monstrous that they have internalised it.

    It is the environment that addles them. Therefore, expending a lot of effort on the arrest and prosecution of individual terrorists is not going to have a major impact, because they are expendable — there are many waiting in line, ready to step into their shoes.

    In that sense, it is immaterial what happens to Ajmal Kasab — he is simply cannon fodder, dispensable.

    It is the system that is psychotic, and it is so by intent. That is why Pakistan refuses steadfastedly to move against those who have created the system: For instance, Mohammad Saeed of the Jamaat-ul Dawa (the current name of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba). The Pakistanis have refused again and again to prosecute Saeed, just as they refuse to extradite Dawood Ibrahim [ Images ]. These are strategic assets for the ISI. People like Hamid Gul, ex-ISI director-general, have articulated the grim calculus of this perspective.

    The system in Pakistan was put in place by General Zia-ul Haq, who fundamentalised education, the army, and the rest of society (it may be remembered that Zia in effect banned the use of the ‘Hindu’ sari, and encouraged the ‘Pakistani’ salwar-kameez). The textbooks were re-written to eulogise Central Asian invaders.

    History begins with the Arab invasion of Sind in 712 CE. The word ‘Hindu’ is always preceded by ‘cunning baniya’. The idea that a single Mohammedan soldier is worth ten Hindus in valour was put about, notwithstanding considerable evidence to the contrary.

    American psychologist Sam Keen suggested in Faces of the Enemy that a major part of warfare lies in dehumanising the enemy. Every nation has created extraordinary propaganda against its enemies: By internalising this, young soldiers are able to kill other young men without compunction, because they believe the enemy are sub-human monsters intent on raping ‘our’ women, destroying ‘our’ nation, and so on. The book includes hundreds of posters, cartoons and other material from 20th century propaganda, which Keen calls the ‘archetype of the hostile imagination’.

    Surely, there is Indian propaganda against Pakistan; however, it is on a secular plane, and does not target Pakistanis based on religion. In fact, average Mohammedans are better off in India as compared to anywhere else in the world, including, and especially Pakistan, where only the feudal upper classes (castes) live well.

    But that is not what Pakistanis believe. In encounters with middle-class Pakistanis in America and on the Internet, I have heard how glad they are that there is a homeland for subcontinental Mohammedans who would otherwise have been oppressed by Hindus. They are silent, however, when I point out that there are, in fact, two homelands, and how the one homeland couldn’t keep half of its inhabitants happy and started a genocidal war with them.

    This incomprehension about India was seen in the transcripts of the conversations by the 26/11 terrorists with their handlers in Pakistan: The terrorists were obviously confused that India was not a whole lot like what they had been brainwashed into believing.

    Thus, it is the environment, of radicalisation and mind-games, that is creating a cadre of evil-doers. Any amount of ‘talks’ and ‘goodwill gestures’ and ‘walking the extra mile’ is unlikely to change the situation unless the hate-mongering institutions with a monomanical jihadi agenda are dismantled. So long as India cannot get Pakistan to do this, there will be an endless supply of cannon fodder.

    There is another issue — terrorism has now become a job, and quite a lucrative one at that. Zimbardo is of the opinion that a lot of the brutality in the Stanford Experiment and at Abu Ghraib happened because of simple boredom, especially at night, when the guards had nothing better to do and wanted some entertainment — perhaps the ultimate in the banality of evil.

    In the case of the Pakistanis, and, alas, in the case of a number of home-grown terrorists in India, terrorism has now become an easy and attractive job, with perks like foreign trips (to Pakistan via Dubai [ Images ] to throw people off the scent), cash (including counterfeit Indian rupees shipped in container-loads), women (who will dare say ‘no’ to an AK-47?) and so on. For an ill-educated youth with poor prospects, this must be like manna from heaven.

    Thus, the cognitive dissonance between the ‘they are just like us’ ordinary citizens of Pakistan and the ruthless killers is a matter of their environment. Unless it is cleaned up, and the godfathers of the system like Hamid Gul, Hafiz Saeed [ Images ] and Dawood Ibrahim forced to stand down, India — and (note to President Obama [ Images ]) the West — will continue to face evil and bleed.

    It is not the individuals, but the system of propaganda and inducement of hatred that is to blame. And that suits the Pakistani establishment just fine: It sustains their failing State.

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    Good pice there by Rajiv Srinivasan. Thanks Ryan for posting it.

    Thats more or less what I have been saying. Its the Pak establishment ( army, ISI, Military intelligence, IB ) thats at the core of the Jihadi machine operating from Pakistan.

    Its rather unfortrunate that Indian political leaders, cannot comprehend the reality and wallow in futile, damaging foreign policy.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    no doubt that an aggressive and assertive leadership is the nation’s need.

    [Reply]

  • vijay Kumar

    Dear AGENT VINOD :) :)

    I know the assumption behind the blog and your intention too. Just hoping against hope that our vile neighbour will do something sensible to promote peace and goodwill.

    My contention is different. That at this point our naive PM will again fall for Pakistani Hyena smile. And then the Pakistanis will stab us in the back again with a bigger dagger.

    Of course there are some reasonable people in Pakistan as some fo the bloggers who come here. But few are willing to acknowledge that Pakistan is responsible for most of the terror in the subcontinent and maybe the world. It can only be set right once it demolishes the terror camps and borrows our NCERT education system which promotes secularism. :) :)

    Unfortunately all the talk of moderate, enlightened Islamic state ends up being an Oxymoron. It has to be a secular statre and nothing less.

    It maybe good fun to eat Kababs with visiting Pakistani peaceniks. But again rmember it took a Sandeep Unhikrishnan to give up his life facing the forces of evil which Pakistan breeds in its schools and madrasas.

    Uncle Vinod, you may feel proud that you jmananged to share TV space with a rotund joker like Mani Aiyar. But remember that Mr AIyar is one negative force in our politics, who is also a coward. He got bashed up by Amar SIngh and could not retaliate. And he is scared of coming on a hit list so he wont say anything against the terrorists.

    By the way the Mr AAIyar alone, almost demolished India’s commonwelath games effort by opposing it as late as 2007 as sports Minister. The basic reason was that he did not have the drive and vision to get stadia constructed and get games organised. So he opposed the effort !! :) :) !!

    The joker of the century who has no qualms about bing nominated to the Rajya Sabha on a vacancy meant for eminent writers?? :) :) ha ha ah :)

    Mani Aiyar a wireter :) :) ha ha ha.

    And Dear Uncle you suport him also !!!

    Dear

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    Dear Vijay,
    You hate what I say but you are compelled to listen and read. Keep it up as you’d be wiser at the end of it. Sorry, I wouldn’t put a smile icon as I know exactly when I am funny and when I aren’t.
    PS: Agent Vinod was my favourite character in hindii Jasoosi novels I’d love reading when I was a student.

    [Reply]

    vijay kumar Reply:

    Than you Uncle Agent Vinod !

    I will keep reading what you write and also write to you to enlighten you on what genuine secularism and on “Pakistan ka Matlab kya…” :) :)

    Hoping you would change for the cause of humanity

    Vijay

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    ——————————
    Kuldip Nayer
    ——————————-

    Among the Indian scribes, I think Kuldip Nayar is the most despicable.

    Let me say why. He writes in DAWN and makes calumnous allegations against India, which even the Pak government does not make !!!
    These calumnous and false allegations are picked up by the Pak jihadi criminal organizations and then used as propoganda material.

    Regarding 2007, Samjhuta express blast in India near Panipat, this is what Kuldip Nayar writes in DAWN.

    “..Even the attack on the Samjotha Express (2007) is considered the handiwork of Hindu terrorists…”

    I know he is pro Congress and politically opposed to BJP, but from him to make those totally unsubstantiated accusations in papers, is indefensible. He even talks about ‘Hindu Taleban. ‘
    His only job seems to provide false propoganda material to Pak agencies.

    This is what Wikipedia says

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Samjhauta_Express_bombings
    ……………………………
    On July 1, 2009 the United States Treasury and UNSC put sanctions on Pakistan-based terrorist organization, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, and named Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blasts.[42]

    How do you deal with thugs like Kuldip Nayar ??

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    I can’t believe this! Vinod Sharma’s blog being used to vilify Kuldip Nayar!! Hai mein mar jaanwaan!!!

    [Reply]

    Rajiv Reply:

    Karuna,
    Why don’t you refer to the points I have raised ?

    Kuldip Nayar, froths in the mouth talking about ‘Hindu Taleban’, ‘Hindu terrorism’ in Pak papers !

    Its not me who is vilifying Kuldip Nayar.
    Its Kuldip Nayar who vilifies India in Pak papers and in the process vilifies himself.
    He has no sense of balance , proportion and is calumnous and callous.

    There are fringle elements in every socity, including India, USA, Germany , all most every country in the world , that occasionally indulge in violence. The indian Government prosecutes them.

    The same applies to USA, UK, Germany etc. So should be now start talking about
    ‘German Christian Taleban’ , ‘English Christian Taleban’ and seek equate them with the numerous terrorist organizations that operate out of Pak and carry out terrorist strikes all over the world , while the Pak government nurtures them ??

    I wish, anyone , Maybe Vinod Sharma, could get a reply from Kuldip Nayar and let him answer !

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    kuldeep nayyar isnt the only one. there several such people in India so called as secularists who feel very liberal and secular in abusing , cursing and accusing Hindus.

    the Hindus have been more tolerant than anyone else in the subcontinent but also have been victims of Muslim atrocities and continue to be.
    people like Karuna and Kuldeep Nayyar are the real enemies of this nation (and Hindus as well) who create their own brand of secularism and take sides with Muslim thugs. such people should be done away with ( Khallas!! :) )

  • vijay kumar

    @Tanzeel,

    Read today’s papers including the HIndustan Times and you will see a news item that Pakistanis in USA are pretending to be Indians to avoid getting bashed up !!

    :) :) :) FUNNY IS”NT IT !! :) :) :)

    U guys hate India and send your poor brainwashed suicide bombers here. Yethave no qualms about pretending to be Indians !!

    U guys hate hate Americans. But have no qualms about accepting their aid!! :) :)

    In my visits to the US I dioscovered that the Pakistanis hate the Ameircans. Hate their food, music and people. Then what the hell are you doing there??

    Is’nt it time that you did a bit of soul searching and discover that Pakistan has to change fundamantally and should stop being a fanaticistan good for only producing suicide bombers…. ?? !!?? !! ??

    [Reply]

    vinod sharma Reply:

    @Paritosh,
    What do you think you are, Bhagat Singh? Stop questioning the patriotism of others on this blog.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Vinod

    i may not be Bhagat Singh or Chandrashekhar Azad but i surely can tell that what a pseudo -liberal / peacenik stands for.
    when we have people like Kuldeep Nayyar , Arundhati Roy, and this visitor Karuna ( and yourself as well) it is a win win situation for Pakistan and other enemies as well.

    i dont know about the patriotism of others but as for you, it can be seen when you shamelessly try to suggest reconciliation with an enemy like Pakistan , p-a-k-i civil society , peaceful options, common goal and all that B.S.

    [Reply]

    karuna Reply:

    @ Paritosh. Excuse me! Who the eff do u think u r? U can’t even spell BS properly!!! Khallas!!!

    k.

    karuna Reply:

    Bhagat Singh is no merchandise. @ age 23 he was bigger than the biggest!!!

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Karuna

    ok fine. you know whats a B.S ?? its bull s-h-i-t , that is you. i am not any great person but atleast not any pseuo anti-national liberal like yourself.

    and yes, i am at least totally aware who the f-u-c-k you are

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ vijay

    it is better if Pakistan doesnt change. because then it will attract the wrath of , either the U.S or Indiaand will finally get devastated.

    i want to see these cockroaches die.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    correction-” either the U.S or India and….”

    [Reply]

  • yash
  • http://www.tanzeel.wordpress.com Tanzeel

    @ My Indian fellows,

    I have written something on the current situation of Pakistan as a response to Indian media and Indian commentators on HT blogs, please read and comment.

    Link: http://tanzeel.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/pakistan-under-the-microscope/

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ Tanzeel
    you damn loser!!
    anything that reflects the dark truth about Pakistan is a “conspiracy” of R.A.W or that of the Westerners. the piece of s-h-i-t that you write is something very typical of Muslims and especially that of the Pakistanis.
    each and every accusation that has been made against Pakistan regarding Islamic terrorism and doing unlawful acts is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED
    but you losers refuse to budge. hence it is a crystal clear fact that P-A-K-I-S lack logic and hence they should be ruthlessly massacred

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    Even on the blog Readers are blaming India. You can’t counter them!

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    no one blames India other than a p-a-k-i loser. please re-read the posts to clear your misunderstanding

  • Rajiv

    Tanzeel, is a prime example of the mumbo-zambo, that most Pakistanis , who seek to make apologies for the total destruction of Pak polity, that the Pak establishment ( Its army high command, ISI, IB ) that have brought upon Pakistan.

    From hanging prime-miniters, fraudulent elections ( Zia, Musharraf , they got 98% plus votes ) , bribing political parties and financing all terrorist and criminal groups against India – the army has done it all. Its the core of the jihadi machine operating out of Pakistan.

    With every change in Govt, military or civilian, a new messiah arrives in Pakistan to fix things.
    But as always, its worse than ever before.

    Thats because the military-ISI-mullah anti India propoganda complex is at the core of Pak nationhood today and guys like Tanzeel utter mumbo-jumbo in its defense.

    [Reply]

  • yash

    @TANZEEL AND ALL P-A-KIS

    SEE THE COLUMNS BY PAKIS IS THE DAWN NEWSPAPER ABOUT PAK EXPORTING TERRORISM….

    HEY TANZEEL ANY ANSWERS FOR THIS ?

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/19-ardeshir-cowasjee-paths-of-terrorism-lead-but-to-pakistan-950-hh-08

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/03-Pakistan-A-nursery-of-modern-jihad-ss-02

    [Reply]

    Tanzeel Reply:

    I am already confronting Indians here — http://tanzeel.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/pakistan-under-the-microscope/

    come up with your queries I will respond.

    [Reply]

  • Vijay Kumar

    @Tanzeel

    :) :) :) :) Ha ha ha :) :)

    The whole world is wrong!!

    All are guilty !!

    But Lakhvi !! Dawood !! Hafeez Saeed !! And of course Masood Azhar and the million suicide bombers of Paadistan are just lollipo chewing kids :)

    [Reply]

    Azhar Hussain Reply:

    And you make terroirst Modi the Chief Minister of Gujrat. Nobody pays attention to you guys in Pakistan, so Vijay Baita keep barking

    [Reply]

  • Rajiv

    You have to understand, the large Pak army and even larger ISI, is made up of middle class Pakistanis.

    So most Pakistanis you meet on the web, have there immediate or extended family as part of Pak army, ISI, miltary intelligence, IB, police etc. They themselves form the core of the criminal entity that supports the Jihadi machine operating out of Pakistan.

    The Pak establishment is made up of them.

    [Reply]