He’s from Andhra, She from Telangana. Where’s India?

Shah Alam Khan Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

Dear Vinod ji,
I am in total agreement. You have hit the nail on its head. The nexus of power and money has eroded our country thoroughly. I just read somewhere that Late PM, Shri. Gulzari Lal Nanda never owned a house. He was even against applying for a freedom fighters pension of Rs.500 per month after he was evicted from the official house in Delhi. Only if we could have kept alive the legacy of men like him, we would have been a better nation- number and size of states would not have mattered then.
Truly,
Dr. Shah Alam Khan

Rajeev Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 10:16 am

Let me tell you 47% people in super rich Maharashtra are below poverty line in rural areas whereas the percentage is 54% in UP.
Not so much of difference between cultured, well administered, proud maharashtra and unclutured, uncivillized UP.

Nikhil Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

Rajeev,

I wonder why there was a need to bring Maharashtra (MH) in the discussion. But, i will briefly respond anyway. According to official figures, UP houses around 60 million more rural poor than MH. That is roughly equal to the total population of the UK. I don’t see much of a comparison between UP and MH if you factor all parameters of state building over the years.

That does not mean the rich-poor divide in MH should be neglected. The Vidarbha region, where most of the rural poor live, will hopefully turnaround with the upcoming MIHAN industrial project. It may also give the locals an access to jobs, unless of course, the unskilled migrants from UP do not show up there willing to work as slave labor.

Rajeev Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

I was only trying to prove that so-called developed states are no better than BIMARU states when it comes to poverty. If UP/Bihar people are willing to work on less, why don’t maharashtrian compete by lowering their own wages.
The truth is that locals are always complacent, laid back and want everything without any competion. This is true for all states. Even in US, most of the Americans crib that Indians have taken away their jobs. I ask them bluntly why don’t you first look at chinese who took away most of the low-skilled jobs from US.

Lastly I have live for more than 20 years in Maharashtra and it is still my favorite state but what makes me angry is that marathis think that they are the ones who have solely developed maharashtra. Maharashtra is Maharashtra not because of hard of marathis but because of migrants and the money invested by non-marathis.

As far as UP is concerned, the main industry in UP is politics. The congress ruled this state for 45+ years. It didn’t do anything, then came BJP followed by SP and BSP. All of them were carbon copy of Congress. The only thing these political parties want out of UP is 80 Lok Sabha seats and that’s it. The people in UP have no pride, no ambition nothing and accept status quo. I really get puzzled looking at priorities of people from UP. All they can think of is Caste, short cut money, gundagardi etc. Is this the place where RAM was born? I doubt it. However UP people can be blamed for everything but you can never tag them regionlist like marathis and tamil. Tney will never bash anybody for language or UP asmita.

Nikhil Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 1:35 am

Rajeev,

I think your comments have drifted away from the subject of discussion. On the topic of internal migration, people’s views are framed based which side you stand on the benefit and the loss debate . For decades, Maharashtra (MH) has been THE preferred destination for migrants followed by Haryana and Gujrat in that order. A majority of them, mostly unskilled, have come from UP. We now have politicians from UP who, ironically, spend more time in MH – with the hope to run MH to the ground – rather than in their state. So no one can argue that people in MH do not compete for jobs, businesses or politics in the face of an onslaught of migrants, mostly unskilled, from other states.

You’ve to look at the other side as well. For instance, when a rural farmer in MH gives up a piece of his land for a new factory he wants a right for his son or daughter to find a job in that factory. However, soon after the factory comes up the unskilled jobs are contracted out at a price lower than the going minimum wage or salary. That, my friend, is crass slavery and not free markets. The locals are going to get angry as a result. Because of the convenient option of migration, I argue, the politicians in UP have absolved themselves from the burden of development for too long.

Rajeev Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 4:03 am

The farmer in Maharashtra gives the land but an outsider invest money in raising a industry. It means both MH and outsiders have equal right over the jobs.

You like our money but not people.

I totally agree on you about UP politicians but I reject your so called Marathi Pride.

What do you call H1B1 visas? Slavery or services at reasonable prices.
The problem with most of the marathis is their laziness and addiction to country liquor. They are ignorant about outsiders. For them all Bhaiyyas are into milk business forgetting that Amitabh, Amir, Salman, Dilip Kumar, Shabana, Sahtrughan and even prince Rahul Gandhi have Bhaiyya roots.
Even Vitthal (lord Krishna) was a Bhaiyya..so are we going to see Raj Idiot demolishing Vitthal idol in Pandharpur.

Nikhil Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 5:41 am

Rajeev,

Excuse me, you brought up the issue of regionalism – almost like to pick a fight – not me. To attract investment, Rajeev, you’ve to keep your house in order. Which means going the whole hog; land reforms, law and order, education, electrification among other things. Just exporting the poor from UP, does not cut it. The BIMARU states get the rap they deserve. The problem of alchoholism in villages is not limited to MH but the entire country. I’ve seen in the villages of AP what a menace it can be. Your example of H1B visas is also poor; infact it augments my point that only a small portion of ’skilled’ jobs, not unskilled, are reserved for foreigners.

What ‘our’ money you writing about? Which hotshot investor from UP has invested anywhere outside its state that has generated legitimate employment? None! The investment in MH, TN or Gujrat is coming from foreign countries because the foreign investors see favorable returns by investing there. When new industry arrives, say in MH or in TN, the ‘unskilled’ jobs go to the locals first because the poor farmers are giving away their lands. The bhaiyaas who flock to the jobs later as their ‘birth right’ sadly become delusional and in arrogance start believing they run the state and the country.

I wondered if UP had the blessings of all the gods and the bhaiyaa entreprenurship to boot, why no private investor wants to go there? Further, if bhaiyaas were as good as you claim, why the mass exodus of people, rich and poor, to leave the home state only to go elsewhere to try their luck.

Rajeev Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:58 am

Don’t forget 170 million Bhaiyyas still live in UP.

You are simply being regionalist and all your arguements are full of hatred. Please tell us how many industriast in India are of Marathi origin and have invested money outside maharshtra?

Now that Mumbai has got all the devlopment and has tons of money, you want it all for yourself just like telangaites who are trying to hijack Hyderabad.

Rajeev Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 1:11 am

Does Sikkim has Ranji team?

vinod Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

Dear Nikhil,
Didn’t think of it that way. Maybe a new format would help— like zonal level teams.

Rajeev Reply:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:44 am

Let me give you a simple example on why unskilled jobs are being grabbed by Local.

Here is US most of the unskilled jobs like janitors, fruit picking etc. are being grabbed by Latinos because Americans including black are unwilling to do these jobs. These people want relatively easy job without any competition. When it comes to skilled job, they face stiff competition from outsiders on both skill and price front.

Same thing is happening in Maharashtra. The BHAIYYAS are only grabbing the jobs that marathis don’t want to do such as Bhel puri wala, Dhobi, Doodhwala etc. Now Marathis don’t like the presence of so many BHAIYYAS, they are harrassing them. Now when it comes to skilled jobs, Marathis loose out to Malayalis and other south Indians simple because south Indians are willing to work harder and at lower cost.

Let me be very frank that you are absolutely right of the need to develop UP and Bihar but I don’t buy this arguement that Marathis should have first right to employment in Maharashtra. It is a free market economy not a socialist one.

I have nothing further to say on this.
Thanks.

Rajeev Reply:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:45 am

Pl. read ‘Let me give you a simple example on why unskilled jobs are being grabbed by Local.’

as

Let me give you a simple example on why unskilled jobs are being grabbed by outsiders.

Nikhil Reply:
December 18th, 2009 at 6:25 am

Rajeev,

I’ve studied, worked and lived in various parts of India and abroad with many friends from different communities. I’m no bigot but you’ve to understand both sides of the argument. Today, the pervasive sentiment, legitimate or not, in any big Indian city today is this; the cities are unlivable, overexpensive and continue to be inundated with waves of people from the erstwhile lands of Ram and Buddha. Try living in Bangalore or in Hyderabad and you’ll sense the divide among locals and others; the amorphous term ‘loss of community culture’ is beginning to be heard. When the economy slows, unfortunately, such opinions become sharper.

Let’s not forget that the states in the south and in the west, to their credit, have put in some hard work. A lot still needs to be done but they’ve stablized their population, improved health and education and are moderately industralized. Delhi have stopped giving them freebies or hand-outs which encourages them not to take additional burden of development that comes with mass internal migration. This may’ve generated some unwanted reactions among the local politicians.

I do not subscribe to the violent methods displayed by Raj. I hope there are better ways to address this issue. But, the resentment is quite common in many parts of the country than you think. Few years ago in Bangalore, a guy who seem to be some IT hotshot visiting the city for a conference, gave a presentation in private, showing how India is being let down by some states in its race with China. I do not agree with all his views but the sentiment remains.

Rajeev Reply:
December 18th, 2009 at 4:25 am

Nikhil,
I do not change my stand from blog to blog.

I am specifically commenting on attitude of marathis lead by lumpen Raj Thackrey. There is a movement in maharashtra that want to grab all the jobs for marathis and kick out outsiders. You can not act against skilled outsiders so you focus on unskilled poor people.

My example of Lations and black is not racist. This comment is not my comment but comment made in US TV Channels from time to time. You really need to know what is racist? When you don’t allow prople to speak in their native tongue, that is called racist. When you smash taxis of poor people for your false pride, that is called racist.

Remember Maharastra is not the only state where outsiders are coming and getting jobs. There are many others but no one cribs like ignorant maharashtrian like you.

My sincere question to you is “Have you ever lived in UP for even a week?”. If no, do so and then make comments on Bhaiyyas. You should know that UP has maximum number of small scale industries in India. It supports 170 million people on its own against mere 70 million in MH so UP is not all village with people sitting on top of buffaloes.

You have low opinion of people coming from UP and Bihar and that is what makes you spew garbage bordering on racism.

Nikhil Reply:
January 1st, 2010 at 3:56 am

Rajeev,

No one is kicking outsiders out of Maharashtra or Mumbai; only the UP/Biharis who have formed illegal cartels, turned arrogant and spew venom without understanding the concerns of others. May be population control could be a good start to stabilize the overpopulated UP/Bihar.

I’ve lot of respect for UP/Biharis. They’re some of my good friends. Many are sympathetic towards the poor, often rural, people living in Maharashtra. They, unlike you, put the blame on the governments in UP/Bihar which has brought about this condition.

Rajeev, if you perhaps have lived outside Maharashtra you’d realize the anger against UP/Bihar is equally bad or worse. It also has turned political now. For instance, ‘Karanataka Rakshana Vedike’ in Bengaluru wants priority to Kannadigas in the state because of mass migration from North. Sheila Dixit recently said the people from neighboring states are crowding Delhi which is not helping the development of country’s capital. Goa does not want direct train link from Bihar after what they’ve seen in its neighboring states. Madhya Pradesh wants priority to locals if a new factory comes in Satna. Assam just went ahead and sadly burnt some bhaiyya migrants. Punjab endured decades of acrimony against bhaiyaas until they gave in. The list goes on. Unlike Maharashtra, these states, do not even figure as the top destination for migrants. That goes to explain that Maharashtrians are very accomodating until they’re pushed to the wall.