Hafiz Saeed is Pakistan’s Bhindranwale



The Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan met and bid adieu in New York without promise of a future date or resumption of the stalled composite dialogue. So much so that S M Krishna rejected reactivation of back channel talks that had worked so well till before Mumbai happened.

The January 6, 2004 Islamabad joint statement by Pervez Musharraf and A B Vajpayee and the largely successful ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) were a product of the dialogue away from the prying eyes of the media. The back channel continued after the 2004 regime change in India and saw the two sides agree on a slew of confidence building measures including the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus service and the Munabao-Khokhrapar train link between Rajasthan and Sindh.

Krishna engaged with Pakistani counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi for nearly 100 minutes before predicating resumption of talks on concrete action against perpetrators of Mumbai, notably the Jamaat-ud-Dawaa’s Hafiz Saeed, who, in my view, is the Bhindranwale of Pakistan.

I’m not for a moment condoning the Pakistani intransigence on Saeed who, for good or bad, has become a test case for its seriousness in fighting terror on the eastern borders with India. At the same time, I’m aware of our government’s predicament in handling Bhindranwale, who roamed the streets of Delhi with his band of armed followers as the government grappled with ways to contain militancy in Punjab. The consequences of the belated, hugely controversial Operation Bluestar were fatal: large scale alienation of the proud and patriotic Sikh community; major spurt in wanton killings; assassination of Indira Gandhi by her own security guards and the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.

Indira was a tall leader and politically too astute not to know the consequences of sending troops into the highly revered Sikh shrine. But when she had to act, she did. There’s no leader today in the whole of South Asia to match her courage.

In fact, the beginning of Musharraf’s end (over the Judges’ issue) was his decision to send commandoes into Islamabad’s Lal Masjid. Benazir Bhutto was killed in a bomb-pistol assault primarily for her open challenge to extremist forces. Conspiracy theorists believe Nawaz Sharif’s life is in as much danger from the Taliban and their Al Qaeda partners who despise popular rule and popular leaders.

Like Bhindranwale, Saeed combines his mass following with religious fervor and a cause (Kashmir) that’s anti-India. He cannot be taken out or incarcerated and tried without a complete consensus between the political class and the civil-military establishment who’ll have to jointly bear the violent fallout from any such action in the crucial Punjab province.

Pakistan’s worst kept secret is the government’s lack of political will and resources to open another anti-terror front when the battle is far from over in the northwest. It’s significant to note that Punjab hasn’t had a major terrorist attack ever since the Lahore High Court let Saeed walk free.

The JuD leader’s boys are now doing ‘patriotic duty’ by training anti-Taliban lashkars (village armies) in the NWFP. His utility for Pakistan explains the futility of India’s campaign.

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (13 votes, average: 4.31 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...
  • Anil

    At the same time, I’m aware of our government’s predicament in handling Bhindranwale, who roamed the streets of Delhi with his band of armed followers as the government grappled with ways to contain militancy in Punjab.

    other than electoral cynicism driven nonsense of Congress and Indira Gandhi there was no reason to spawn Bhindrawale . Congress is a past master of bleedign India for its electoral gain. All the idiots of indian polity got spoon fed in early stages by congress just for soem electoral gain at the cost fo India.

    (1) Bhindrawale was raised to check Akali
    (2) Shiv Sena was raised to check communist
    (3)MNS is being raised to check shiv sena

    list goes on and on..

    This is why I till today don;t waste even single tear on assassination of Indira GAndhi.> The lady got what she dished to others thoguh bhindrawale.. DIG of punjab got shot in golden temple yet Indira Gandhi was unmoved.

    Hafiz Saeed supporters vote for NAwaz Sharif not for PPP so PPP if serious would have easily tackled this menace called Hafiz Saeed.

    [Reply]

    Akash Reply:

    Exactly right! Looks like one can never get enough of sycophancy of so-called ‘tall’ leaders of Congress. It was her “courage” which landed us the Punjab problem, Assam problem, LTTE, and, of course, the worst of all, the rapid criminalization of Indian politics. A couple of tall leaders like that and we can say good bye to all our dreams of future. Thanks but no thanks.

    Your comparison of Saeed with Bhindrawale would be apt if Bhindrawale plotted bomb blasts and massacres in a different country. Giving refuge to Hafeez and holding iftar parties for him is giving sanctuary to a person guilty of an act of war against another country. We had long been too mealy mouthed or polite of saying the very obvious fact: it is a nation of cowards. I wish the American would fire a few of those hellfire missiles in the compound of this fat, bloated rascal.

    [Reply]

    Anil Kumar Reply:

    What ticks me off is that columnist who will call leaders of BJP mass murderer and what not on basis of hearsay would call a bonafide godmother of bhindrawale and ilk who murdered thousands of indian a tall leader.. yet they complain when people call these columnist congress’s B team

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Too simplistic, messrs anil and akash. Bhindranwale was for Khalistan and received support from across the border to set off bombs on our side. In his mind, India was an alien country. You haven’t seen him in person, I am sure. But I met him several times at the height of militancy in Punjab and know a little more about he man. I found striking similarities between him and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar when I met the latter some years later in Islamabad. The only difference was that Hekmatyar could speak english if he desired but Bhindranwale couldn’t.

    [Reply]

    Anil Reply:

    You have ready made excuses . hey noboyd said Bhindrawale was saint.. Point being raised is socalled tall leader India gandhi taking him under hsi tutelage for the petty political gains at the cost of Indian inetrest..

    Whern ti comes to congress suddnely the complexity of issue is flavour fo the town.. Same set of individuals would argue all said and done.. “Since so and so could nto fully control riots hence he she it is mass murderer.”
    I wonder where does the consideration for nuamces and complexity in the backdrop of India being riot prone country where 99.999% riot have bene presided by socaleld secular congress party goes..

    Peopl would not raise hypocrisy charge if you guys were consistent in your assessment but it seems complexity nuances etc are the ideas only saved for defending nehru family and congress others must be judged thorugh a balc and white prism where there is no room for gray

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Indira Gandhi was a tall rpt tall leader. It is no travesty of history. You love war and expansionism Anil so the following examples should suffice: She added to India’s territory by bringing in Sikkim and dismembered Pakistan in 1971. Now please don’t say that it was Narendra Modi who did it.
    She of course had her share of follies—imposition of emergency being the foremost. But her achievements far ourweigh her mistakes.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Dear Vinod Sharma ji

    Though , I liked immensely your concluding sentence by saying ‘ His utility for Pakistan explains the futility of India’s campaign”, which indeed is a reason why Pakistan will never dare to act against Hafiz Saeed.. But generally speaking , Pakistan does not have courage to prosecute any persaon like him. The important example is the case of Lal Masjid cleric, Maulana Abdul Aziz. He was captured in 2007 during an army operation to flush out AlQaida linked militants from Lal Masjid, as he was fleeing while clad in a burqa. He faced more than two dozebn cases of terror, abduction etc. but has yet to stand trial. Like Hafiz saeed, he was also detained for a while and then released on bail and no charge sheet has been brought against him. When Pakistan can not prosecute a person like Abdul Aziz who committed crimes on Pakistan soil directed against Pakistan govt., how it will ever prosecute Hafiz Saeed who was at least fighting a proxy war for Pakistan against the arch enemy India.
    However Bhindranwale was not useful to our country where as Hafiz sSaeed has an immense value for Pakistan. So the comparison between the two look odd, especially when Indira Gandhi showed immense courage at a big cost to liquidate Bhaindranwale, the same can not be said for the Pakistan govt. to have courage to prosecute Hafiz Saeed at any time.

    Yes, Bindranwale was a headache for the country, but Hafiz saeed is no longer a headache for Pakistan. So on the whole, I beg to differ with you for putting Bhindranwale and Hafiz Saeed on the same level, as for as their utilities for their countries were concerned.
    As always , I enjoyed reading your article., though I did not agree with your views.
    Regards
    (Dr.) BN Anand

    Sam Reply:

    Hafiz Saeed is not going to be prosecuted or put in prison in any “meaningful way”.

    That is the reality..

    (unless he acts against pakistani leadership or its people)..

    It is simple.

    So why are Indian people in delusion ??.

    Looks like indians cannot accept reality nor they learn from history…

    No wonder the country is so weak politically, and every thug was able to loot it for a long time
    (ghazni, ghori, british…)

    the sad part is, indians inability to see and act with “real politik” .
    They do not have their self interests as primary, and a practical plan to achieve them is lacking.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I agree with Sam on the need to use force as one of the tools. Constant negotiation where PAkistan continuously play cat and mouse is no good. Indians will not take the next terrorist attack lightly. Enough is enough.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    What is Pakistan?

    What do Pakistanis aspire to?

    What are the core principles?

    A nation conceived of being “against” some thinga and not “for” something is bound to fail. The unfortunate thing is that we will be affected by its failurre because they are our neighbors. It is like property price going down if the neighborhood goes down!

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    No sir, the property price shoots up when the slums around one’s property are removed.

    Akash Reply:

    Vinodji,
    You also forgot to add that she also let loose her thuggish son on the hapless people, especially Muslims. Her dirty politics in Bihar, with the bombing of Lalit Narayan Mishra, is her gift to our crime ridden politics. We can go on and on. The “ji-huzur” culture that you see in Congress is entirely her contribution. She has got far more mileage than she ever deserved, whereby every bridge or school or roundabout is either named after her or her son. The things that you euphemistically describe as ‘follies’ ended up doing us the greatest harm. Could you name a few more of her achievements, apart from the Indo-Pak war, and how do they outweigh her mistakes? I am glad, however, that you at least addressed some of our questions. Bhindrawale shot into limelight entirely due to her machinations. It was entirely suitable that she cleaned some of the mess that she generated. It IS a travesty of history that her long rule that saw few achievements is lauded as some sort of ideal period in our history whereas people like Shastri who achieved far more with far less hardly get any mention at all. Bose is all but forgotten and the man who single-handedly challenged her might during Emergency, JP, finds little mention in our struggle to be a modern democratic society.

    vinod Reply:

    Well Akash, we can go on and on about it. In my very humble view, your documentation of Indira Gandhi is one-sided. She had to courage to abolish privy purses, natinationalise banks, which decision saved our banking sector from over-exposure during the prime loan crisis in the US that triggered recession.
    Yes, of course, she made many mistakes, such as promoting Sanjay, imposing emergency and creating Bhindranwale. Despite these obvious minuses, there is no leader with a better report card then her post Nehru. Even Vajpayee compared her with Durga after the Bangladesh war.

    Atul Barry Reply:

    All I can say, Vinodji, is that all the efforts of people like you will come to zero if reports like this are correct: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/world/asia/30mumbai.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=mumbai&st=cse

    Regards,

    Atul Barry

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    I do not see any reason not to believe it. In fact, we should believe it nd 1) go after them in their soil and 2) take all precaution here to minimize the dfamage if an attack happens

    ISI is actively involved. In fact, I saw an interview with Hamid Gul, ex ISI chief, who maintains the 9/11 was not an Al Quaeda job, and that Al Queda are not terrorists.

    And if an attack happens, I just hope our fr—- leaders do not say “Mumbaites are resilient; they pick up and restart”…

    India and US should cooperate and do precision bombing/targeted killings or kidnappings.

    Akash Reply:

    Alas! it speaks of the quality of leaders that we had post Shastri that Indira Gandhi comes on top. I guess, we have different views as to what we regard as important. For example, I am not sure how far reaching the effects were of abolishing the privy purses, but I do know how we suffered as a consequence of her Punjab policy. Nationalization of banks didn’t require the kind of courage that, say, staying away from imposing emergency, required. She had the numbers and despicable sycophants like Barua and Dhawan to impose her writ. Beyond that passing of nationalization bill could hardly be called as a courageous step. It would be a mistake to assign the credit of India escaping the sub-prime crisis to Indira’s sagacity. That would require an extremely skillful intellectual jugglery, which can only be swallowed with a bucket of salt. It was purely a stroke of good luck rather than anything else. She was entirely responsible for a wasted decade of development. I am surprised as to how your moral indignation does not extend to her entirely self-serving policies.
    Going over your priority list, I can understand why you don’t go into an overdrive when hundreds of our countrymen are massacred by our brethren across from the border. After all, what are a few hundreds when we have millions to spare. If a few hundreds lose their lives for the sake of your chance to listen to fatuous stories of Rawalpindi story tellers or enjoy the nostalgia of pre-Partition India, so be it.
    Vajpayee must have had a bottle of scotch when he came up with that comment. I think I have made it clear that Bangladesh war and only the bangla war was her achievement. Beyond that she showed every signs of a remarkably small intellect entirely geared towards her a ruthless ambition and self-serving interests.
    Your encomiums of Indira Gandhi remind me of a story I read long time ago,”Bhed aur Bhediya” by Harishankar Parsai. I would highly recommend it to you.

  • Gopi Thomas

    The problem is Pakistan has many Bhindrawales; party supported and independent hydras (supported by military/ISI)

    We fence our borders and stop all discussions with them.. Nobody is in charge (unless we can negotiate with the Bhidarwales).

    What happene dto the land of the pure? Wasnt religion supposed to be the glue there?

    [Reply]

  • http://incorrectpolitically.wordpress.com/ Akhilesh

    Vinod Ji,
    You would be aware that military forces in every country indulge a great deal in game theory. They conceptualise various scenarios and then theorise various ways to deal with these scenarios. The rule of the game is to use every trick possible to gain advantage over the enemy.

    I am sure you would concede that Pakistan military, especially the Army would be adept in such game theories too. And considering that India is their principal enemy, almost the entire effort in these ‘games” would be aimed at India.

    Have you ever thought that this great line of reasoning often employed by pecaenicks like you – that the civilian government in Pakistan is not fully in control, is actually a version of a game conceptualised by the Army?

    Think about it – almost always when a tough action is demanded from Pakistan, either by India or the world at large, a counter is immediately ferreted out that the government is weak, not fully in control and therfore unable to deliver. Now this government may well have some issues with control. I will come to it later.

    Firt think about the Musharraf years. Who could have ever been in greater control of Pakistan than a person who was the President and Army Chief rolled in one? Musharraf was weakened when the judges issue came up in 2007 but I remember countless discussions on Indian TV since 2004, when in every discussion on Pakistan, this question was always be asked – Is Musharraf in control?
    Even the Army chief, who was ruling Pakistan was not fully in control? Wonder who ever was, will be?

    I think even the peaceniks realised that this proposition looked too far fetched so that had another ruse to explain away his antics – rouge elements in ISI and Army. It’s unbeleivable that this rouge elements theory was postulated for so many years, the entire world new about it, yet Pakistan Army who would in all probabilty want to remove rouge elements from a disciplined force, never did.

    And the same theory is now being floated in another form with a civilian government. That this government is not fully in control, thus too much should not be demanded from them lest they flounder.

    Think about it – that this entire thing is deliberately kept at such a boil by a very adept Pakistan Army. It gives them great escuse to not deliver anything substantiative, ever. Otherwise why would Pakistan politicians, who while in exile talk so profusely about peace with India, change their tune when in power? Why would Hussain Haqqani – the man who so famously exposed the link between terrorists and the Army is now the greatest defender of this very same arrangment.

    And either by design or unwittigly, people like you become a tool in furthering this agenda of the Pakistan Army. So long as you continue to buy this argument, I can guarantee you that you will see no action on India-Pakistan front. Not in your lifetime, I am certain.

    [Reply]

    Saarthak Reply:

    Must say your comment has been an eye opener. Agree with almost all of it. Do you have any suggestions to counter this ‘game’?

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    @Akhil

    IS your suggestion that whether Civilians are in control or not; deal with the civilians, and if we do not get what we want, pursue a military action?

    [Reply]

    Akhilesh Reply:

    Dear S Singh ,

    The issue is not of military action. It’s about tactics. Let me tell you how.

    In the last twenty years of insurgency in Kashmir, have you ever seen a change of strategy by India?

    It’s been the same since twenty years – that of defense.

    To give a name to the startegy : Let’s call it Vinod Sharma strategy

    It’s like that of a boxer say A, in a ring, who has taken a vow never to throw a punch back, but only to ward of punches from the opposite number, say B. The only innovation that A does is to make sure that he becomes very good in warding off further punches at a place he has already been hit once.

    So if B has hit A once, say, in his front portion of his head, then A ensures that he learns the manouveres to avoid further blows there. But what does B do then? Does he go home weeping, that I have failed? No. B simply lands a blow at the back of the head of A.

    But A even masters his defense there too. Now what will B do. Again Simple – he hits A at his chest. And so the game plays on and on and on. B continuously hitting at new places and A freeting after each hit to get his act together to prevent furtther hits there.

    Has A ( India ) ever thought that let for once it land a blow at B ( pakistan) and see whether B can survive even one blow and the fight is over for ever?

    People like Vinod Sharma with all their sophisticated word play will basically have us continue playing the game. People like us are sick of the game and want it to end.

    S Singh Reply:

    Ya, I am with you.. That is what I was asking ..If the Civilians(or whoever is in charge there) do not produce, should we invade and carve out the terrorist territorry? If I hear you, that is what you are sayng.

    I am for ending this cat and mouse game. Although i do not want it, it looks like the only lesson they understand is the ISraeli model

    Nikhil Reply:

    Dear Vinod,

    Is your assessment based on some guess, hunch or information which cannot be revealed in public?

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Nikhil,
    I’s plain and simple common sense sir. Saeed was built up as an asset to push the Pakistani cause in Kashmir.

    [Reply]

    Anil Kumar Reply:

    I feel for Vinod he after all has to appear on talk show on pakistani tv and he must have sthg to show for hence articles like this..

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Akhilesh,
    I couldn’t get the import of your argument. Are you disagreeing with me over Saeed’s utility for the Pak establishment? That the Pak government is weak isn’t a product of any peace activist’s imagination. It’s an argument used by hawks (on our side) with whom I am sure you get along too well.

    [Reply]

    Akhilesh Reply:

    Dear Vinod Ji,
    The import of the argument was this – that the comparison between Bhindrawale and Hafiz Saeed is odious for the following reasons ;

    1. Bhindrawale was propped up by Indira Gandhi to settle domestic opponents. Hafeez Sayeed has been reared exclusively for use against India. He has never gone against Pakistan’s interest.

    2. Bhindrawale later went out of control of Indira Gandhi. It is yet to be established by any shred of evidence that Hafiz Sayeed is out Pakistan’s control

    About weakness of civilian governments etc. – the argument that you conviniently sidetracked was this : that how long will this argument be used that Pakistan government is weak ( irrespective whether civilian or military) and thus let us give them some leeway?

    In Musharraf years the argument was that he is the only hope we have, don’t demand too much from him lest he be dethroned by a Mullah or a nut case general. And of course the variations of rouge elements in ISI and Army theory coupled with the eternal question – Is Musharraf in control?

    In current government the argument is – it is weak and not fully in control, give it some leeway, some concessions lest it will be dethroned by the army in a coup. Also there are non-state actors not fully in conntrol of military and variations of this theme?

    A military dictator was not in control. Now a civilian government is not control. How long will this same argument be dished out? How long will “doves” like you kep giving Pakistan this escape route?

    Has not the turnaround of Hussain Haqqani pointed out that there are no doves in pakistan establishment. That all their united in their goal vis-a-vis India. And that all are playing their role to perfection.

    When will naive Indian jornos understand this? Or are they compromised too ?

    [Reply]

    Atul Reply:

    Hi Akhilesh, just want to share an alternative perspective.

    As per my understanding, Pakistan has not had a stable Govt. in a long long time.

    Whatever be the nature of the issue across borders, it is universally agreed that a political resolution is the normally the best way out.

    Political compulsions require creation of assests. Some go out of control. Like the Taliban, or Bhindrawale. The world over, there are many many such examples.

    Whatever she may have been, Indira Gandhi was a fierce nationalist, and a passionate lover of India. Richard Nixon had once said that if there was any person who had less scruples than he to further the interest of their respective countries, it was Indira Gandhi.

    Pakistan’s economic compulsions and rampant corruption (yes, worse than ours) make it resort to innovative techniques to get money from either Saudi, or the US. They have hardly any self sustaining economy, but immense greed.

    And while we may have nothing to do with is, we end up bearing the brunt of it. Much like having a parasitic relative who you would like to wish away, yet cant do anything about.

    Lets be clear, India is not being stoical about it. We are dishing it back, and to find that out, you have to look at Pakistani splutterings of what India is doing to them.

    Having said all that, we have no choice but to look for a political solution.

    And by the way, I wouldnt be so courageous in suggesting that journalists are naive !!=:)

    Akhilesh Reply:

    Dear Sarthak ,

    Let me suggest a way to beat this game. It’s all about tactics. Let me tell you how.

    In the last twenty years of insurgency in Kashmir, have you ever seen a change of strategy by India?

    It’s been the same since twenty years – that of defense.

    To give a name to the startegy : Let’s call it Vinod Sharma strategy

    It’s like that of a boxer say A, in a ring, who has taken a vow never to throw a punch back, but only to ward of punches from the opposite number, say B. The only innovation that A does is to make sure that he becomes very good in warding off further punches at a place he has already been hit once.

    So if B has hit A once, say, in his front portion of his head, then A ensures that he learns the manouveres to avoid further blows there. But what does B do then? Does he go home weeping, that I have failed? No. B simply lands a blow at the back of the head of A.

    But A even masters his defense there too. Now what will B do. Again Simple – he hits A at his chest. And so the game plays on and on and on. B continuously hitting at new places and A freeting after each hit to get his act together to prevent furtther hits there.

    Has A ( India ) ever thought that let for once it land a blow at B ( pakistan) and see whether B can survive even one blow and the fight is over for ever?

    People like Vinod Sharma with all their sophisticated word play will basically have us continue playing the game. People like us are sick of the game and want it to end.

    [Reply]

    shafat Reply:

    Dear Akhilesh,

    who is or is not in control in Pakistan is something that u leave to pakistanis and ask your government as to who is in charge in Delhi and for God sake don’t give me any democratic or consensus **** of a democracy. your talk of Musharraf about being or not in control is just an eye wash for all those hindrences and subversion that the powers in Delhi resorted to by keeping all pending disputes in the cold storage. Check the records and commentary by neutral persons and u will find ,perhaps to your utter dismay that Musharraf was all for a little”give and take” on Siachen, sir creek and the Indus Water treaty which later could have culminated in the resolution of the Kashmir dispute also. Indians ,as u must be knowing are more than eager to settle the border issues with China and have proposed exchange of maps etc only because u can’t beat them in a war. I wonder why they don’t show the same eagerness with pakistan. your Prime Minister speaks the truth in sharm-al-sheik and not a soul defends him and when New york happens,Indians again try to act bully which you know will yield no results and the talks shall resume after Maharashtra elections. It is all indias internal politics playing havoc with the peaceful existence of a billion plus people.

    [Reply]

    Amit Reply:

    Shafat,
    You guys send over some of your idiots to explode bombs and kill people in our country and then accuse us of subverting peace! Logic is a scarce commodity in the land of the Pure. You seem to live in a la-la land. More than peace talks, you guys need psychiatric help.

    [Reply]

    Nikhil Reply:

    Shafat,

    India’s primary concern with Pakistan is terrorism that is fanned and grown in your heartland despite talks of dialog and peace on Kashmir. It’s a poor but effective tactic. If the negotiations do not go Pakistan’s way more mujahadins are inflitrated in to India. In civilized world this is blackmail, not negotiations. Whatever the electoral scene in India, devoid of an offensive strategy in Kashmir, India has little choice but adjust the pace of composite dialog. That’s fair.

    For Indians, Musharraf in 2001 was difficult to trust; especially on the backdrop of Kargil misadventure which was orchestrated principally by him. Needless to say, during talks, caution over speed prevailed. Despite Musharraf’s much celebrated agenda towards peace, he never suggested the details how to execute his plans. If you want to bake a big cake together you should atleast bring the recipe how to bake it. He admitted that he did not know what steps to take to what he proposed. Excuse me, this is not worthy of the celebrity status of a peacenik that Musharraf enjoys in Pakistan or elsewhere.

    Now, briefly on talks between India and China. China, now, is a stronger power but it has no mujahadin to infiltrate through the mighty himalayas. In my view, this makes dialog with China easier than that with Pakistan. On disagreements, there are risks of diplomatic fall outs, trade sanctions or border skirmishes. But those can be addressed as they come. Fyi, India gave ferocious military response to Chinese provocations on the border in the late-sixties and mid-eighties.

    [Reply]

    Amit Reply:

    I doubt if even Musharraf’s wife trusts him.

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    Unfortunately, it looks like Pakistan understands only the language of force or coercion.

    They undertsand “drone” attacks, they understand Taliban attacks. It is gigh time India takes a Get tough” attitude; fortify the borders, and capture and kill Let and other terrorists through covert actions. India, US, and Israel should join togetehr in wiping of the terrorist menace.

    I hope our leaders do not say “mumbai people are resilient” if another attack comes. I hope Miumbai/India will rise against our leaders and demand a different tougfher strategy if it happens. This is too much!

  • Sloberknocker

    Namaste to all,
    I am a Pakistani and before i even start my text i would like to say that i am very sorry for what happened to the citizens of India. i understand that i will be ridiculed,shunned and even cursed at in forums in my country and yours if i express my feelings. But somebody has to stand up and say enough is enough, and i am not here to gain anybody’s sympathy or gracious words. And rest assured there are millions and millions of Pakistani’s who feel the same way as i do i hope.
    Innocent Indian citizens lost their lives because of some Mullah who is hell bent on Jihad.Because of these cowards who are not only illiterate, they are dumb as a door **** and that’s me being civilized.Because i am way better than them.
    Coming back to the Mumbai attacks and once again my condolences to the families of the innocent people that were ASSASSINATED by these TERRORIST, the whole world witnessed the brutality of these TERRORIST. They have nothing but hatred in their hearts.Theirs so called masters(Hafiz Saeed aka waste of skin, roam around freely in my country as if they have scored a major score for Islam and Pakistan. They SHOULD be eradicated but before that they should be thrown in jail an their freedom taken away, just as they took the freedom away from the citizens of Pakistan and India.
    Better yet send all these people to India that the Govt of India has named and let them suffer in Indian jails, and if you ask why my answer is simple, they killed INNOCENT INDIAN CITIZENS.
    They should suffer in the country they ATTACKED. I would love to see citizens of India look at these people and humiliate them day in day out. Nothing better than taking away their freedom and dignity.Treat them like the dirty dogs they are an will be.
    Now to the Govt of Pakistan and India, hear me out here.
    1) Is it possible to show the citizens of your respective countries what these dossiers have in them as proof. I know that i would like to see for myself as to what was given to us and what was received.
    2) To the Govt of Pakistan, just today we sent two son’s of a Yemeni TERRORIST who was involved in the bomb attack of a Saudi Prince back to Saudi Arabia, my QUESTION is WHY? Did we have enough information and intelligence to pick them up from where they were and if we did then how come we can’t pick up these TERRORIST who India has named. Oh i know why, our rulers in Saudi Arabia give us MONEY which i might add does not go to the well deserved starving people of my great nation. It goes in your pockets. THERE I SAID IT.
    I trust my people but not my Govt. They have been given ample proof by the Indian Govt if i am not mistaken and nothing has happened to these TERRORIST. Stop procrastinating and get it over with.
    We the citizens of Pakistan know that they are guilty and responsible for the attacks, so why does not the Govt of Pakistan think that way. Oh i know why, the mesmerizing sound of Saudi Money going cha ching in our ears have blocked any sense of reality in our minds, and we are puppets in their hands. If our Govt did not send those two sons of that TERRORIST, then we would not get any more of those mesmerizing,enchanting tunes of MONEY being dropped in our bowls.so we had to send them back. Correct me on this if i am wrong.
    I love my country just as Indians love theirs, and i don’t see any reason why we cant live in peace and i know that is too much to ask, i guess wishful thinking.
    To all my Indian brothers and sisters and friends, as a Pakistani i would love to welcome you in my home with open arms and warm smile as my parents have raised me that way just as millions and millions of parents have taught their kids both in Pakistan and India. I hope and pray that one day very soon we live in peace and harmony.

    I apologize to anyone if my words have in anyway shape or form hurt them. I just wanted to vent my anger.

    Peace to all.

    Pakistan and India Zindabad.

    [Reply]

    Amit Reply:

    Dear Sloberknocker,
    We have nothing against Pakistanis, in general. We have too many problems of our own to start worrying about some other issues. I really don’t give a damn where Kashmir goes as long as it does not become a haven for these thugs. I wish you all the best in your effort to construct a stable and democratic Pakistan. May your dreams come true. Contrary to the common perception in Pakistan, we have got over that stupid dream of Akhand Bharat or Undivided India and all that attached nonsense a long time ago. We like it the way it is. At times, however, our patience runs thin. Bombay was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Most of us would be happy with just a genuine prosecution of those murderers, but, as you have pointed out, even that minimal effort seems to be too much for the Pakistani Govt. A Government that cannot prosecute and lock up cretins like Saeed can scarcely be trusted or relied to uphold peace.

    [Reply]

    Sanjay Pradhan Reply:

    Saeed or ISI /Paksitani establishment is major threat to Indian security. So i think it is better to hamper recruiter which is more important strategy.

    Group Behind Mumbai Terror Still Viewed as a Major Threat
    By LYDIA POLGREEN and SOUAD MEKHENNET New York Times, 29 Sep. 2009

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    This is first time in 15 years I have seen a pakistani boldly saying what most Indians say about pakistan but the tragedy is that these pakistanis are silent majority who will be mercilessly killed if they aired similar senstiments in public.

    However I do welcome such kind of gestures from good hearted pakistanis. I wish we learn to keep our religion private and learn to behave like humans.

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    No Rajeev, you are mistaken. What you said was perhaps right about a decade ago. But in recent times, the voices of reason are on the rise in Pakistan though in relative terms their numbers are small.

    [Reply]

    Amit Reply:

    Sure, Vinodji. Here is something for you to ponder about:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/world/asia/30mumbai.html?_r=1&hp

    Rajeev Reply:

    Vinod,
    You may be right but is it producing any results on the ground. Infact number of terrorist attacks on India have increased manifold in last decade especially under the pious rule of Sonia Gandhi.

    I accept that middle class pakistani is far more liberal than fundamentalists in pakistan (Pl. note that no muslim can be secular, by liberal I mean that he can tolerate others) but they have absolutely no weight in pakistani power structure.

    The only way India can pin down pakistan is by empowering this silent majority and bring true democracy to pakistan where Pakistani Army should be marginal or insignificant player but this undertaking needs lots of planning and guts.

    Sam Reply:

    Vinodji,
    Your statements go against many many documented events in the history..
    so far, your strategy is just hope (I am not saying it is wrong, but hope is not a practical strategy)..

    Please tell us why you are not delusional..

    yearning for peace is considered cowardice by muslim pakistanis..

    Read the history as much as you can.
    Ghazni, Ghori, …..

    Please analyze why Hindus think that being nice will bring out the nice things from Muslims..
    Why not the other way, like being nice will be interpreted as weak..

    What would your strategy been in 1971 ?

    Your strategy would have been “treat all the refugees good and show that we are secular and eventually all secular people in Pakistan/B’desh would agree with us and work with us ??”"

    For so long, india tried “give peace a chance” and it is not working.

    So why not try covert “give war a chance” and maybe it will work..

    See what taliban did in pakistan and how the pakistani rulers dealt with..
    they did not wait for “moderate talibunnies” to work with them..

    Please tell us what is wrong with “give covert actions a chance” strategy..

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Yash,
    The comparison is broad and not the least in defence of Saeed or Pakistani establishment. They are both Frankenstein’s monsters. Bhindranwale did not act across the border but acted at the behest of forces from across the border to create mayhem in India. He was pampered and nurtured by anti-India forces (after he fell out with his backers in India). In that sense he was a renegade no different from Pakistan’s anti-India human assets like Hekmatyar or Saeed.

    Anil Reply:

    You are a brave man ..

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Who know if this Sloberknocker is just an indian impersonating a Pakistani ?

    Anyway, the reality is Saed is not going to be handed over to India, nor “imprisoned” in a real sense.

    The only option left to india, is do some covert actions to hurt pakistan or do an israeli style commando action to send Saed to Allah quickly…

    you never win a game, by just playing defense.

    do lot of covert actions and just mimic pakistan’s playbook..
    cover up for plausible denial and for every action, make sure the reaction is 3-4times bigger.

    in the one of them will give up, when the price is high..
    (it can go on for a long time, but atleast they have to pay a price)..

    so far pakistanis have not paid any price, for all the terrorists acts in India.
    (dont tell me taliban related violence, that is internal to them)..

    [Reply]

    S Singh Reply:

    I agree with Sam.

    We have to use force, straight forward or sneaky. There simply is no excuse for the bleeding, and not protecting our people when we can

    “nese balasyethi chare da dharmam”

  • Anil

    Vinod Sharma too passes the muster for tolerating others views and not deleting the posts which is not a hosanns for his point fo view..

    Indrajeet Hajara on thsi blog is a pesky little man who will delte your posts if you are nto in uniosn with his lien fo thinking..

    [Reply]

  • yash

    Dear Vinodji,

    I want to share a few things as below

    1) Bhinderwale never sent murderers to the neighbouring nations.

    2) He did not have global perspective like Hafiz Saeed

    3) Bhinderwale killed citizens of his own country which Saeed is not doing

    4) Bhinderwale was not part of states foregin policy but Saeed is.

    So how can you find them to be similar ?

    Thanks,
    Yash

    [Reply]

  • http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Mr.Sharma,
    I was away for a time and therefore couldn’t comment on your blog. Well, things haven’t changed the least. Your rhetoric of peace and the counter “hate talk” goes on unabated. I couldn’t agree more with your analogy of Bhinderwale and Hafeez Saeed. The process of hate and terror always remains the same. Only the phenotype and the faces of terror change. What surprises me is the post by Sloberknocker (who is allegedly a Pakistani). Its great that sanity and reason does exist in the mayhem of Pakistan. I think we need more Sloberknockers to make the subcontinent a better place. As for your writings, keep inspiring…they do make a difference.
    Truly,
    Dr.Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS,New Delhi
    Read my blog at: http://indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Akash Reply:

    Shah Alam saab,
    Pray tell us as to what do you find as “hate talk”. Most of the replies posted here are quite expected considering as to how we have been battered over years by goons from across the border. One can only turn the other cheek as many times. Now we are getting kicks on our backs as well. You can understand if some of us get angry at such a treatment.

    [Reply]

    Gopi Thomas Reply:

    One of the big problems we have is with our media and chatter class who proclaim “terrorism has no religion”. Our squabbling leaders have failed to put national security over partisan politics. Islamic terrorism and pakistani terrorism is real and present and existential threat for the country..

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    When they say terrorism has no religion, they just mean islam..
    But just listening to the islamists, I am sure they are a religiously inspired.
    if you tell those terrorists, that they are not doing those acts for islam they could even be insulted.

    those terrorists believe they are doing these acts, conquering new terroritories in the name of islam.

    look all the way from Bin Qasim, Ghori, Ghazni, Babar, Aurangazeb,…
    they always said they are doing it for islam..
    there is so much preponderance of evidence and all the political leaders want to do is just behave like ostriches..

    this is not just denial of reality, it is simply delusional for the past 1300 yrs..
    I do not know if people in the world are terriffied of islam to not even identify and name the enemy properly.

    how can you protect yourself, if you do not even know who the real enemy is ?
    why the enemy is getting motivated, what resources they have, how they are thinking…

    it is such a sad story of political correctness if they cannot even publicly identify their enemy.
    it vote bank politics run amuck..

  • Dinesh

    PAK Strategy is Loud & Clear for Idiot Indian Politicians. Would not give up ” TERRORISM ” on the name of Kashmir Freedom Fight. Dossiers are used as ” TOILET TISSUE “. Shame on Prithviraaj Chauhans and Dramabaazs from Aman ki Asha who’s ” SHAKY ” hand is always on standby to ” SHAKE ” hands with Pakistan on India’s Sacrifice.

    [Reply]

  • Gautam Ahuja

    I have been reading your blog for a while, and this time you have admitted what your critics say and you painstakingly deny. You say that taking any action against H Saeed will lead to violence by his vast base of supporters that is large enough to destabilise the government.

    That is exactly what we have been saying to you for years Vinodji, the popular sentiment in Pakistan is pro-Islamic terrorism, and there is no point engaging them in back room diplomacy etc.

    They are a society committed to terrorism, they have chosen their own destruction by going down that road.

    By the way, there is one major difference between H Saeed and Bhindranwale, the former enjoys the support of the government.

    [Reply]

  • g.singh

    long live sant gyani jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindrawale. santji never incited to pick up arms for killing innocents (as the hindu majority thinks) for more knowledge log onto bbc news or read ” the gallant defender” by A.R Darshi (a hindu again)

    [Reply]

  • Raghavendra

    MR SHARMA

    you are right when you say Miyan Hafeez sayeed is Palistan’s Bhindranwale . i feel you have forgotten to mention 1 thing. whole india knows Jarnail singh Bhnidranwale was created by your great
    DESH BHAKT congess prime minister Smt Indiraji. can you tell me who is pakistan’s Indira Gandhi?

    please enlighten me with your answer dear PANDITJI.

    [Reply]