Fear now a Pakistani way of life



I was in Pakistan within days of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh raising the specter of another major terrorist strike in India from the Pakistani soil. I found some of my friends among Pakistani journalists who preach peace with India moving around with armed guards, barricaded government buildings and crowded bazaars sanitized hours before VIP movements.

In the battle zone that’s Pakistan, government installations and places frequented by visitors from the US and the West are at grave risk from the Taliban out to avenge Baitullah Mehsud’s death in a drone attack. The fear explains poor occupancy and drastically reduced rentals at luxury hotels in Lahore and Islamabad.

Islamabad’s Marriott isn’t any more the hotspot for the city’s movers and shakers. The hotel hasn’t recovered from the September 2008 bombing that robbed it of its high-end clientele including businessmen, politicos and diplomats. People feel safer dining at home or at stand-alone restaurants; the demand greater for guesthouses with lesser facilities and higher tariffs.

Even un-starred hotels with foreign clientele are similarly threatened. Lahore’s Presidency where I stayed is a cozy little place with a spa/gym and a diet menu that’s a hit with the firangi crowd. But it was quite unsettling to see armed guards at approach roads to the redbrick structure off the Lahore canal. A firing squad was also positioned at the rooftop.

“What’s all this about,” I asked a friend who had organized the booking for me. “The place is under threat because it’s frequented by goras (westerners),” he said.

Security concerns are as much palpable at VIP abodes— Asif Zardari rarely moving out of his presidential quarters and former Premier Nawaz Sharif feeling safer at his heavily-guarded farmhouse near Lahore. Several foreign missions have either reduced staff or have reinforced security.

Quite symbolic of an entrapped Islamabad is the jungle of concertina wires at the approach road to the diplomatic enclave. The web’s of Pakistan’s own making. But a web it is!

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  • Anil

    Chicken coming home to the roost.. These guys exported fear to other countries It’s sweet sweet justice.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Mr. Sharma,
    Couldn’t agree more with you – “The web’s of Pakistan’s own making”. What Pakistan is reeping is a sowing of its past. We are fortunate to have adopted Democracy even when the best of British brains had once predicted that democracy will be short lived in India. In fact as an Indian Muslim I have pride in saying that Indian Muslims are the only Muslims in the world who have tasted democracy (well if you consider Turkey as a Muslim country, we are second then). To me it is this democratic set up which is “the” difference between India and Pakistan. Only if Pakistani administrators would have realised this early, their land would have been a better place to live.
    Well, kudos to you Mr Sharma for pesistently following an agenda of peace and for visitng Pakistan. Honestly, I would not have dared to go there in these circumstances. Someone has to take the lead and I am happy that India has that “someone” in you.
    Dr.Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    Read my blog at : http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    A one sided peace is worst than war

    [Reply]

    Shah Alam Khan Reply:

    Dear Mr.Sharma,
    I am aghast with the vituperative rhetoric against you on this blog. I am pained to see this spill of hateful ideas. I can only say (in the words of an Urdu poet):

    Khudaa ham ko aisii Khudaaii na de
    Ki apane sivaa kuchh dikhaaii na de

    Khataavaar samajhegii duniyaa tujhe
    Ab itanii bhii zyaadaa safaaii na de

    Abhii to badan men lahuu hai bahut
    Kalam chiin le raushanaaii na de

    Truly,
    Dr.Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Doctor,
    It takes a lot of courage and conviction to stand up and be counted in a minority of one. I am blessed. God has given me that strenght. There is reason hidden behind some discordant voices on this blog. I can see that. But some of my interlocutors aren’t able to see the not-so-hidden reason in my arguments. I won’t give up until that happens.
    Best regards

    [Reply]

    Atul Barry Reply:

    Mr. Sharma:

    I tend to agree with Dr. Khan that there is a lot of bile in response to your blog posts. I believe that much of that is unwanted, and clouds a resonable discussion. It may serve you well to moderate some over the edge comments whose only purpose is to incite hatred. Disagreement and dissent is acceptable; abuse of a privilege is not. IMHO.

    I have noticed a similar, and much more pronounced phenomenon on Mr. Zia Haq’s blog, and gave him the same suggestion. It is sad that many Indians lose their bearings when it comes to a discussion about Muslims, whether at home or abroad.

    Regards,
    Atul Barry

    Rajeev Reply:

    Atul sahib,
    You have turned into free-fund consultant.

    You are actually asking for curbing freedom of thoughts.
    Why should I agree with Vinod Sharma? Is it because it is his blog, or he is a peacenik or he is pro-congress or he is know-all journalist and we know nothing.

    It is time people like you stop preaching hypocrisy. I read somewhere that you have been in US for 2 decades but I guess you have not learnt anything about freedom of expression.

    You have remained a close minded ‘JI HUZOOR..MAI BAAP’ desi inspite of living in free society. Pl. take this criticism positively and stay away from taliban kind of banning ideas.

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Rajeev,
    I have a suggestion for you. Pl go through your responses on this blog once again and determine for yourself wither the language that you use is suited for a civilized debate? The least we can do is to not call those with whom we disagree, names. I do not question your right to your point of view. But I do certainly expect proper language please.

    Atul Barry Reply:

    Rajiv ji:

    First, I’m not familiar with the term “free-fund consultant”; please elaborate.

    Second, I am not against presenting an opposing point of view, or disagreeing, but with having an uncivilized debate. One doesn’t have to agree with Mr. Sharma or me, but the dissent should be respectful, proper and polite.

    Third, I have been in the US for almost three decades. Yes, there is more freedom of expression here, but I have found that it is not much different than it was in India when I left in 1981. To my surprise, however, every few years when I go back, I find the Indian society becoming more and more polarized, mainly on religious lines; people are using the privilege of ‘freedom of expression’ to spew hatred. I find this digressive, distressing and sad. FYI, I’ve also noticed that even though the population of India is about four times larger, the percentage of idiots and the uninformed is roughly similar between the two countries.

    Finally, I’d request you to read my earlier response again. You will find that I’ve not asked Mr. Sharma to suppress dissent, but merely to not allow articles that are abusive or are hate-mongering.

    Regards,
    Atul Barry

  • Nikhil

    Vinod,

    What you describe are the difficulties in Pakistan of its own doing. But, where does it leaves us in India? The terror groups plotting attacks on India are different than those who are attacking Pakistan. We’ve learnt that the evidences against the perpetrators of 26/11 have not added up to the high standards of judiciary in Pakistan. Ironically, the same judiciary is silenced when Pakistani suspects are picked up on American requests and sent to Guantanamo without evidence and without prospect of trial. Can the Indo-Pak peace constituency change the mindset of Pakistan army or stop it from calling the shots under the garb of the civilian government? If that ever happens, it’ll be a game changer in the Indo-Pak relations.

    [Reply]

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Dear Vinod Sharma ji

    You are a renowned journalist by your own right. You have been also very frequently visiting Pakistan and thus you are the right source tto know the mindset of Pakistan and its rulers, whether they are politicians or military dictators. As is well known, Pakistan had been always attacking India since 1947, 1965 wars. The 1971 war was an exception in the sense that it was a war of liberation for Bangladesh. Then moving further , who can forget Pakistan’s adventures in Kargil and 26/11 Mumbai carnage. Why inspite of all these wars waged by Pakistan either through regular army or indirectly by the jihadists, the peacemakers in our country are still obsessed with friendship with Pakistan.? Can’t we have a simple business level relationship with that country with out adding any emotional element in forging relationship with that country? Why journalists gather at Indo-pak border every year to light candles? We can all wait for these gestures unltil Pakistan gives an undertaking not to wage any new war and signs a no war pact with our country. Our country always travels an extra mile to be friendly with our neighbour, but then is n’t construed as a sign of weakness by our neighbour? This surely tempts it to wage a surprise indirect attack at the places of its own choosing and we are always taken by surprise. Please try to clear these ponints before you once again show a soft corner for that country in your artices.
    Thanks and with regards
    (Dr.) B.N.Anand

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Mr.Anand,
    We are close to 1.1 billion people. If pakistan kills 10 to 20 thousand Indian per year how does it make any difference.
    The lives of Indians have no meaning when it comes to brotherly bonds across the borders.

    Your kind of Indians are RSS wallahs. Evenif pakistanis nuke India, we should never forget to wish them EID. We were slaves of muslim rule for 800 years so we are legally bound to be harrassed by them and you RSS wallahs should just accept this fact.

    I would recommend disbanding Indian Army altogether. Why do we need them when we ourselves are giving pakistanis license to kill slave Indians.

    [Reply]

    Anil Reply:

    Mahatma Gandhi on Muslim massacres of Hindus and Sikhs: “I would tell the Hindus to face death cheerfully if the Muslims are out to kill them. I would be a real sinner if after being stabbed I wished in my last moment that my son should seek revenge. I must die without rancour. … You may turn round and ask whether all Hindus and all Sikhs should die. Yes, I would say. Such martyrdom will not be in vain.”

    He criticised refugees fleeing the Pakistani jihad, and told them to go back and die: “I am grieved to learn that people are running away from the West Punjab and I am told that Lahore is being evacuated by the non-Muslims. I must say that this is what it should not be. If you think Lahore is dead or is dying, do not run away from it, but die with what you think is the dying Lahore.”

    Ambedkar Writes about Gandhi:
    ‘Gandhi has never called the Muslims to account even when they have been guilty of gross crimes against Hindus. It is a notorious fact that many prominent Hindus who had offended the religious susceptibilities of the Muslims either by their writings or by their part in the Shudhi Movement have been murdered by some fanatic Musalmans. The leading Muslims never condemned these criminals. On the contrary, they were hailed as religious martyrs…. This attitude of the Muslims is understandable. What is not understandable is the attitude of Mr. Gandhi.’

    I am quoting below a few words from Annie Besant’s article titled Malabar’s Agony in New India of 29 November, 1921:

    ‘It would be well if Mr. M K Gandhi could be taken into Malabar to see with his own eyes the ghastly horrors which have been created by the preaching of himself and his ‘loved brothers’ Muhommad and Shaukat Ali. The Khilafat Raj is established there; on 1 August, 1921, sharp to the date first announced by Gandhi for the beginning of Swaraj and the vanishing of British Rule, a Police Inspector was surrounded by Moplahs, revolting against that Rule. From that date onwards thousands of the forbidden war knives were secretly made and hidden away and on 20 August, the rebellion broke out. Khilafat flags were hoisted on Police Stations and Government Offices. …. Eyes full of appeal, and agonized despair, of hopeless entreaty of helpless anguish, thousands of them camp after camp which I visited. Mr. Gandhi says ‘Shameful Inhumanity’. Shameful inhumanity indeed, wrought by the Moplahs, and these are the victims saved from extermination by British and Indian Swords. For be it remembered the Moplahs began the whole horrible business; the Government intervened to save their victims and these thousands have been saved. Mr. Gandhi would have hostilities suspended so that the Moplahs may swoop down on the refugee camps and finish their work! – Mahatma Gandhi was least concerned about the Hindu victims of Moplah violence in Malabar at that time.

    Annie Besant exposed the atrocities committed by the Moplah rebels in Malabar as a fearless journalist. Let us hear her describe an act and scene of rape in Malabar:

    ‘Words fail to express my feelings of indignation and abhorrence which I experienced when I came to know of an instance of rape, committed by the rebels under Chembrasseri Thangal. A respectable Nair lady at Melathur was stripped naked by the rebels in the presence of her husband and brothers who were made to stand close by with their hands tied behind. When they shut their eyes in abhorrence, they were compelled at the point of a sword to open their eyes and witness the rape committed by the brute in their presence. I loathe even to write of such a mean action. This instance of rape was communicated to me by one of her brothers confidentially. There are several instances of such mean atrocities which are not revealed by people….

    Mahatma Gandhi gave his political and moral approval to the Islamic character of Moplah outrage in Malabar in 1921. When Khilafat Muslim leaders like Ali Brothers and many others sent telegrams to Moplah criminal rebels extolling them as heroes fighting for the glory of their religion, Mahatma Gandhi outdid them by issuing a statement to the effect: ‘The Moplah rebels are a brave, God-fearing people who were fighting for what they consider as religion, and in a manner which they considered religious.’

    In words of Dr K D Prithipal, Professor of Comparative Religion, University of Alberta in Canada:

    ‘Muslims will only live as an oppressive majority and a turbulent minority’

    Rajeev Reply:

    Nothing can make hindus learn from history. The reason is that we are coward people who are lead by deluded people (gandhi and his chamcha brigade).

    I wish Hindus get hacked at hands of muslims once again and this gets recorded by current media (I hope they document this genocide). May be replay of this genocide will make hindus learn..I HOPE..

    In 1971 pakistan killed 2 million HINDUS in east pakistan. Our muslims and muslim loving journalist have no time raising voice against it.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Thanks Mr. Rajiv for your kind response. But do you disagree with me for all the facts which I mentioned? My only point is why to add an element of emotionalism in our relations with our neighbour.? Well, I completely share your comments regarding our country having been ruled by Muslims for many centuries Let me assure you I am not one of those RSS wallahs. I am speaking as a simple citizen of the country who has often to read and geting tired of such articles by the renowned journalist Mr.VInod Sharma and many like him. I simply wanted to ask him why he is so crazy for advocating unnecessary friendship with a country which had always tried to harm us?
    Regards
    BN Anand

    Rajeev Reply:

    ” I simply wanted to ask him why he is so crazy for advocating unnecessary friendship with a country which had always tried to harm us?”

    This is because for some people personal missions are more important than country and countrymen.

    You should accept it that Indian internal agenda is set my Indian muslims and external agenda is set by pakistani muslims. This agenda is set by govt. like UPA (read congress), Journalist like Vinod Sharma & Sanghvi, seculars like Javed Akhtar, Shabana Mausi and Mahesh Bhatt.

    Our is a country of coward hindus, bully muslims and hypocritical secular brigade. We hindus who believe in fatalism should take Gandhi’s advise to heart and sacrifice ourseleves to please muslim masters.

    Paritosh Reply:

    note: its a reply to Mr Atul Barry

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Mr Anand,
    The constituency for peace in Pakistan is much bigger today than ever before. The only question is whether they can pull it off in the prevailing atmosphere of distrust. The Indian demand for strong action against the perpetrators of Mumbai is valid. But to deliver on that, Pakistan has to dismantle the terror assets it created for waging the proxy war in Kashmir since 1989. That’s easier said than done because influential sections in the Pak army and intelligence outfts have a vested interest in fomenting hostilities between India and Pakistan.
    My peace efforts with Pakistan are aimed at broadening the peace base. Any vaccum there will only help hardliners on either side— notably those who interject to vent spleen (read the first response to your letter).

    [Reply]

    Anil Reply:

    Fact is those who matetr in pakistan Army remains as antagonistic as ever.. Another fact is that under the veneer of democracy army with or without overt power always remains in the drivign seat.

    recently army has felt politicians might charge Musharraf suddenly on pakistani channles one after another army egneral birgadier is roaming around with revelation of this or that kind undermining the public appeal of politicians.. If politicians still insisit on chargign musharraf don;t be surprised if another coup happens within an year..

    Btw as I write Rehman malik and Mushrraf is in Saudi arabai charting deals behind the back of parliament.. midn you Rehman malik is presidnet zaradri’s man.

    So you can pontificate on waxing or wanign constituency for peace in Pakistan but the real constituency which matters remains as fortified in hatred towards India as ever.

    Nikhil Reply:

    Dear Vinod,

    You say the peace constituency in Pakistan is bigger than ever. It’s heartening to know and good-luck to them. I’ve few questions and you may be in better position to answer them,

    1) Is it incumbent upon India to help Pakistan find peace with itself and the notorious army to stop calling the shots in Indo-Pak relations?

    2) The Pakistani politicians and generals, over the years, have oversold the Kashmir cause (aka jugular vein) to their citizens for selfish reasons. This makes resolving Kashmir doubly difficult. How can the peace constituency undo their wrongs?

    3) The Indo-Pak peace process is going on for a decade with little to show as accomplishments. Our troops are at war with Pakistani trained jihadis everday. Not to forget the intermittent terrorist attacks and the threat of fake currency notes that we’re now facing. What are the short-term goals of the Indo-Pak peace constituency?

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Nikhil,
    The short goal of peace activists is to avoid war and make Pakistan and India act on each other’s legitimate grievances. Mind you, it is always difficult to argue for good relations and so much more easy to advocate settling scores in the battlefield.
    Such is the kind of sway the hardliners have come to hold in India and Pakistan that those preaching reason are seldom heard. We have to add decibles to such voices and shall continue doing so without being intimidated by the prevailing overdoze of cynicism and distrust.
    Agreed that Pakistan is a difficult customer, that the ground realities there aren’t suited for a truthful battle against terrorism — especially on the eastern borders with India. But the alternative certainly isn’t war or a policy of attrition.

    Nikhil Reply:

    Dear Vinod,

    Let me ask you Vinod, hasn’t India acted on Pakistani grievances, legitimate or not? We’ve not started wars but we’ve negotiated with Pak despite being victors, we’ve engaged in dialog despite gruesome cross-border terrorist attacks, we’ve abided to the World Bank decision on Baglihar dam to assuage water-fears of our neighbor, we’ve unilaterally invited their artists, patients, politicians and gave them endless coverage, we took leap of faith and signed joint anti-terror mechanism which eventually failed, we’re willing to discuss our role(?) in Baluchistan on the basis of allegations; and the list goes on. The cynicism, not warmongering, with respect towards Pakistan is formed over time.

    It’s ironic of you to say the voice of a liberal is not heard. We, the citizens, see you and others, appear on TV channels and print media every other day. Like the hardliners, the common man hears the voices of the liberals. I, like many with voices of reason are led to believe that the liberals, like the hardliners, have their own interests to pursue in this dispute. As you say, if an alternative to peace is war, and nothing in between, then sadly we’ve bankruptcy of ideas to steer this conflict.

    Thank you.

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Nikhil,
    Glad to hear that my voice reaches you. But see, I only have one Dr Khan on my side in the debate on this blog which merely captures the mood in Islamabad and Lahore in the face of the terrorist threat.

    Nikhil Reply:

    Dear Vinod,

    I sense your frustration but, in my humble view, the citizens of India know what the liberals don’t stand for – no war. But, that is what the Indian government and our armed forces are also saying to them. Consequently, we don’t know what the liberal position is about. No one has re-articulated it after the terrorist attacks on Mumbai and the way Pakistan has mishandled the investigation.

    Let’s face it, no country wants their armed forces to be in a state of constant war, especially if the war against terrorism is thrusted upon it. I believe people want to hear voices for peace and there is a space for liberals in India. It’s up to the liberals how they re-articulate their position in the face of changing circumstances; something which the liberals have fared poorly in doing so far. Why blame the hardliners for the follies of the liberals?

    Thank you for responding to my comments.

    (Dr.) B.N.Anand Reply:

    Dear Vinod Sharma ji

    Thanks for your response which you posted on September 2 but I could check it to-day. My only complaint against the worthy journalists like you is that your class of people are unnecessarily obsessed with advocating friendship with our neighbour. We can be good neighbours with out being too friendly and conducting day to day affair in a more objective way. Yes, there may be a constituency of peace with India in that country, but then that may be as in minority and may not be counted at all. The people of the country do not want war with Pakistan. Let there be a status quo and let the things move on till there is enough trust. At the moment, even while pursuing friendship, no one knows what may be cooking behind the scene. Was not Kargil being planned at the same time when Vajpayee ji went on a bus ride to Pakistan and acccepting the reality of Pakistan from Minar-e- Pakistan? Did not the Moulvis wash the mosque with milk to purify it afterwards? No one protested in Pakistan against this. Again President Musharraf had said in a declaration that Pakistan will not allow its soil to be used by any one against India. Yet 26/11 happened, being planned and launched from the Pakistan soil. Sometimes , it is a matter of confusion whether the Pakistani ruler mean what they say. Moreover because of lack of continuity of demcratic traditions in that country, it is not sure whether any leader’s coomitment to this country will be followed by his successor.

    I am sorry for having expressed so much even after your response. But thes are are some of the questions which constantly haunt the common man in this country.

    Regards
    (Dr.) B.N.Anand

  • A.C. Sethi

    Dear Mr Vindod Sharma,

    The picture depicted by you of Pakistan belies the claims made by Pakistan that it does not have to do anything with the terrorist attacks in India. But how can they justify the similar attacks in their own country. Even if not for India’s sake atleast for their own sake they should control the breeding of the terrorists in their country……..that will automatically help control these attacks at our land.

    [Reply]

  • Sam

    Sometimes peace is acheived after one of the parties, gives up their futile efforts to fight the other side.

    Until that happens, peace achieved is just tactical and temporary.

    It just gives time for Pakistan to regroup and start a new strategy .

    Pakistan is philosophically inclined for waging a constant war.

    [Reply]

  • Akash

    Dear Vinod Ji,
    I admire your peace initiative and syrupy tales of beautiful society on the other side of border and your periodical exhortations to us that we should be doing this, we should be doing that to help promote peace. It’s quite laudable, except that there is one crucial mistake in all this: it is addressed to the wrong choir. If we had been actively sending bombers to commit wanton massacre in say Karachi or Lahore then such sermons make sense. In all the naratives of your ilk, it seems like we should be perpetually begging those rascals to take some action against the terrorists while they continue to taunt us with silly demands of more evidence. If they cannot prosecute because they are weak, we understand, but is it necessary to rub salt in our wounds that the ‘evidence’ is not enough, etc. etc. Would you be prescribing the same methods if, for example, China was the provocator?

    [Reply]

    Sam Reply:

    Why should’nt india train and send people to bomb and shoot people in all major Pakistan’s cities ?

    Or atleast act like israelis and make sure all the terrorist leaders meet Allah soon ?

    As far as I know, no one wins a war with purely defense as a strategy.

    It does not take much to train 10-20 people and provide them with AK-47 and send them to create havoc in india.

    Pakistan can keep on doing this for ever ..

    So what will change their mind, to give up this low cost war ?

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    i totally agree with you. but unfortunately our leaders are not smart enough to make such decisions and moreover need not say that the government is of minority appeasing UPA . This is the high time that Indians realise the truth about Pakitan and take decisive actions

    [Reply]

    moughal Reply:

    But then we will be on the same path of destruction as Pakistan…. What will be the difference between them and us?? Nation building , economic development is and continuous global pressure on Pakistan to dismantle terrorist assets should be India’s priority.
    Lets shown them through our words and deeds that a peaceful and normal south asia is our goal , so we can shut the mouth of all those Pakistani hawks who point their finger’s towards India whenever someone talk about cleaning their backyard.

    lets peace prevail !!!!

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    “But then we will be on the same path of destruction as Pakistan…”…yeah yeah yeah i got it, as though the destruction caused by Pakistan is already not enough. thousands of soldiers died in the wars and skirmishes, and civilians died in the terror attacks isnt enough of a loss??

    “Nation building , economic development is and continuous global pressure on Pakistan to dismantle terrorist assets should be India’s priority.”
    we have been building our nation successfully and econimic development is also in the process, but is it really helping us against an adamant and WORTHLESS nation like Pakistan????And you talk about global pressure, I am really aghast at your IGNORANCE. we have been trying it since decades but it isnt working and still you make such a suggestion!!as long as China is Pakistan’s ally we cannot isolate and pressurize them.

    “Lets shown them through our words and deeds that a peaceful and normal south asia is our goal ”
    awww yes yes, I get it. as though if we have been given the global responsibility by God to maintain peace , but also tolerate the continous blood spilling of our citizens, property damage, and infiltrations in Kashmir.

    or is it that you dont want India to attack Pakistan because so many of your Muslim brethren would be killed by the hands of Indian Kaffirs and then who would propagate your Jihad in South Asia.!!!! people like you are curse to this nation

    Atul Barry Reply:

    Worry not friends, Indians are up to the task. Being smarter than Pakistanis, it is done more covertly. The ‘mouth-breaking reply’ for Kashmir is being given in Baluchistan, and many of the various riots across Pakistan are RAW engineered. So, feel proud to be an Indian.

    moughal Reply:

    sorry to say Mr. Paritosh, but Your language depicts your upbringing. why wasting your time and energy on achieving false goals ,
    look your self closely and critically , how different you are from those god damn Jihadis (sic).
    You guys only look like aping them. Ask your self is it good for India?

    regards

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ mougal
    well when it comes to my upbringing let me clarify that i was born in a Hindu family where we are taught to respect fellow human beings and other cultures. so you better see your own upbringing that is no different than a cockroach as they keep multiplying like anything and soon make a hell of the place.

    the name that you have preferred for yourself in this blog openly demonstrates the very fact that you are a Jihadic Muslim ( but a soft Jehadi). If you are seriously so much worried about India why dont you just rectify the Quran and Islamic society on a whole so that you guys are no more burden for us.

    moughal Reply:

    Again your comments like “own upbringing that is no different than a cockroach as they keep multiplying like anything and soon make a hell of the place. “refute your claim of “taught to respect fellow human beings and other cultures.”

    btw , interesting word ‘ soft jehadi’. only (but a half wit ) person can invent such thing.

    bfn

    Paritosh Reply:

    another double standard Muslim , Mr Syed . India’s responsibility is not to improve the Pakistani society or the nation on a whole but to strengthen its armed forces, make itself many times militarily powerful and finally finish the chapter of that worthless nation permanently by an invasion.

    [Reply]

    Syed Reply:

    @pritosh
    Did i say that its india’s responsibility to improve the Pakistani society – I do not think so. Pl read my post carefully.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @syed
    you may havent said it directly but your opinion indirectly reflects thinking of that ilk

    syed Reply:

    @paritosh
    Unfortunately thats your misunderstanding.

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Paritosh,
    I seriously object to your reference to certain visitors to this blog as Muslims (of this or that type). Let us not do that please.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @syed ji

    the misconception is within the liberalists and secularists that islam is a peaceful religion.there are very few Muslims like you.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    man , we Indians are surely much more advanced than those Pakistanis, but the fault lies within our mentality. we can tolerate the massacres of our citizens from the hands of Pakistani terrorists but we feel bad when someone talks about same sort of retaliatory attack on their soil. we call it “uncultured” , we call it “beastly” but hardly we do realise that nations like Pakistan arent worhty of being given humane treatment. moreover we never learn from or past experiences and still carry on foolish political moves like diplomatic ties, cross border talks, Samjhauta express and all such sorts of nonsense. when it comes to Baluchistan, let me clarify that we arent doing anything there because if we would have been doing so, that province would have already broken up from Pakistan. the riots across Pakistan are not engineered by RAW, its their internal ethnic problem and IK Gujral openly dismantled the intelligence setup created against Pakistan by late prime minister Indira Gandhi

    [Reply]

    Atul Barry Reply:

    @Paritosh: To paraphrase Christina Romer, do you think all that the Indian consulates in Khandahar and the rest of Afghanistan are doing is issuing visas?

    I’m not apologetic about RAW activities or any other agency doing covert operations in Pakistan. Even friends spy against each other. Espionage in itself is an activity not for public consumption, and do you think that after Mr. Gujral ‘publicly’ disbanded the Pakistan cell in RAW all activities regarding that nation have ceased?

    It’s the nature of espionage agencies is to have deniability. Who knows if Indians are active in Baluchistan or elsewhere in Pakistan, but if someone says so, I would not be surprised. For example, even though it is an open secret that ISI and the Pakistan Army have a hand in the 26/11 episode, no links have yet been proved.

    Peace with Pakistan is not for the sake of that nation but for the sole interest of India. It cannot make a leap to the global forefront without dealing with this fly in its ointment that is hanging like an albatross around India’s neck. Often one has to deal with unsavory and undesirable characters for a larger, nobler goal.

    [Reply]

    Akash Reply:

    Atul,
    I don’t think they are doing a good enough job, to be honest. Why leave these Hafiz Saeeds free to roam around puffing their chest and spreading all the lies and stuff. The least they can do is to give them indigestion so that they remain holed up in hospital or something.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @Mustafa Ahmed

    you should be feeling ashamed when you say that we can respect the UK. people like you are the arse lickers of the westerners. can we just forget the Jallianwala Baugh massacre and the numerous atrocities and exploitation from the British hands??!!

    you ask why was partition done and who was responsible for it, well the answer is clear, it was the Muslims of that time with their typical separatist Muslim mentality.

    “we should now look forwarrd. India and Pakistan are spending millions on defence at the cost of poor people.”
    India has been looking forward since independence but itn is only Pakistan that has still holds the grudge against us and is committing massacres of our civilians through terrorist attacks.Pakistan is the one who would build a humongous nuclear arsenal no matter how many people die out of poverty there. India has been successful more than Pakistan in strenthening its armed forces as well as irradicating poverty but not at the cost of the lives of the poor.

    there is a law in Physics”every action has an equal and opposite reaction”
    so therefore if the Pakis keep on spilling the blood of our people this way, its obvious that there will be a sense of hatred in India.

    the final note: i got it why you have blamed those unknown faces of “corrupt politicians” for Indo-Pak hatred.its becaue of your typical Muslim mentality of playing double standards of game. the writers and so called “educted civil society” are gonna do no good to India because they ifools of the same kind as you are. by the way i suggest that wake up from your damn dream of liberalism, be practical, abandone your double standard Muslim attitude and learn to accept the political truths the way they are

    Sam Reply:

    Why Should Mustafa feel ashamed ?

    Muslims respect the rule “might is right”

    So British had more might and they respect them.

    They despise the oppressed and conquered or dhimmis or any cowards.

    So in a strange way, I agree with some of Mustafa’s statements.

    So if Hindus want respect, become stronger and make sure you do not lose a single born Hindu to Islam.
    May be ban religious conversion of Hindus to Islam with death punishment

    Paritosh Reply:

    In the first place i never said that you are one of those who feel apologetic about Indian retaliatory attacks(if there are any) in Pakistan. also i am totally aware of the fact that espionage agencies carry out their missions secretly. However , as you say, that India may be carrying out operations in Pakistan , if had there been any such thing over there we could have seen the results. Pakistan’s Shia-Sunni riots, Baluchistan separatist movement, the Taliban problem and the political assasinations are a result of the failed policies and political moves of the Pakistani government. Even though a Muslim nation, it has many ethnicities and this is exactly what they failed to realise and let social injustice foster in their nation only to take them this way after 62 years. Therefore you cannot just possibly pay the credit to RAW for all these incidents of unrest.

    However i would like to accentuate the fact that only if our succesive leaders would have exploited this situation over there with the help of RAW it would have had proved to us like an extra advantage and perhaps the chapter of Pakistan would have been closed a decade back itself.

    [Reply]

    yash Reply:

    HI ALL,

    LETS NOT GET INTO ARGUMENTS WITH LIKE OF @MOGHUL. HE COMES FOR A COMMUNITY WHICH IS PERCIEVED WORLDWIDE AS INTELLUCTUALLY RETARDED AND INHERENTLY BARBARIC. SO ITS BETTER NOT TO TALK TO SUCH PEOPLE. THERE ARE LIKE “KEECHAD” ….

    THANKS,
    YASH.

    moughal Reply:

    well Mr. Yash Yadav , i am also not interested in having any debate with you.

    With retards

    oopss.. regards

  • Mustafa Ahmad

    Most of Indians have forgetten Mahatma Ghandi and they live in fear and hatred against Pakistan. Muslims ruled india for 800 years and British ruled it over 100 years. We can respect UK but acceptance of Pakistan is difficult. We forget that we helped Begalis to have separate state Bangladesh, which we could not make a part of India. USRR has been divided into various countries but all accepted the separate status of these countries. Islamic Khalafat in middle east finished with several independent countries living peacefully. Why partion was done, who were responsible. May be by error or mistakes our rulers, we should now look forwarrd. India and Pakistan are spending millions on defence at the cost of poor people.Separate nations can live together for peace and economic development of the region. It is handful people on both side fanatic muslims and hindus working against this. Only writers and educated civil society can play their part to put together two great nations. Corrupt politicaians only awoke after they are retired.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    What a wierdo!!! Amazing these kind of nuts exist in this world.

    [Reply]

    moughal Reply:

    Sorry Mr. Know it all Rajeev , seeing your interesting reply for a simple and straight from the heart comment, i know you why are insulting Mr. Mustafa Ahmad. Just because he is a Muslim.

    And by the way reading your comments , i can vouch for you Rajeev.
    YOU ARE NUTS!!

    Accept it boy, you sound way more idiotic.

    take care

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    I am called NUTS by a muslim. Thanks for the complement.
    Everyone knows logic and Islam have nothing to do with each other.

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ mougal.
    its totally true that we Hindus are taught to respect other cultures but not the cockroaches who make our nation dirty. as far as the term “soft jehadi” is concerned it has been widely used by many. atleast dont compare me with your retarded community by calling me half witted. by the way as Rajeev truely says Islam and logic really dont have anything to do with eachother

    Sam Reply:

    Mustafa,
    Muslims DID NOT RULE INDIA for 800 yrs.

    Please draw the maps of the different periods starting from 8 century to 20th century.
    ( I am going to collect maps and start putting them on a website).

    Let us mark the area under muslim kings.

    This partially correct or most misinformation gives Muslims a certain arrogancy and feeling of superiority.

    This information needs to be corrected and we have to do this again and again.

    [Reply]

  • syed

    Poetic justice indeed!
    And the best part is not knowing when it will all end. Pakistan is using the hammer of the military in trying to root out the terrorists. But that is a short term solution at best. The proper solution should be to drain the swamp in a manner of speaking. The top priority should be to give free and secular education to its poor (with accomodation & food thrown in) as secular schoos would be competing with the taliban madarsa setup. And yes, deleting jehadi ideology from its school curriculum as well from its mosques would help.
    Having said that, it should be noted that any real improvement if and when it takes place would be neccessarily generational in nature owing to the very nature of the problem.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    please tell exactly where did i go wrong.

    [Reply]

    moughal Reply:

    Here and so many other places my friend…

    “well when it comes to my upbringing let me clarify that i was born in a Hindu family where we are taught to respect fellow human beings and other cultures. so you better see your own upbringing that is no different than a cockroach as they keep multiplying like anything and soon make a hell of the place.

    the name that you have preferred for yourself in this blog openly demonstrates the very fact that you are a Jihadic Muslim ( but a soft Jehadi). If you are seriously so much worried about India why dont you just rectify the Quran and Islamic society on a whole so that you guys are no more burden for us.”

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @mougal

    i asked this question to Vinod ji , not you. as far as your pointing out my mistake on the reply that i gave you for that “upbringing” comment of yours, is concerned, let me say that the above given sentence i said about you is 100% TRUE. you are undoubtedly like cockroaches

    [Reply]

    vinod Reply:

    Dear Paritosh,
    My objection is to the discussion being given a Hindu Muslim colour. There are so many other better ways of countering each other— rather than being harsh and disrespectful. I’m sure your arguments will be more forceful if you follow this rule.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    Vinod ji,
    this is not any “Hindus against Muslim” type of argument here, but my point is that most of the Muslims despite being treated with respect in India dont show much secular attitude towards us. another point of the same is that they are not ready to acknowledge that whatever their ancestors did in medieval ages were atrocities and upon that they are justifying the havoc created by the Islamic terrorists. and as far as this blog is concerned they are showing their double standard attitude. earlier even i used to be secularist but today i lament that i was one. more what enrages me is that non Muslim people especially the educated class is reluctant to accept that these guys are nothing but pests for this nation and its civilization, and that too only to get a “secularist”stamp .

    [Reply]

    moughal Reply:

    Dear Paritosh,
    Why a muslim of India should be apologetic about people he simply don’t know or relate to. let me ask you Mr. paritosh, are you ready to apologies for atrocities done by emperor ASHOKA? it is a ridiculous question to apologies for those thing . come on, think something new , get out of your cagey mentality. India is like a Beautiful painting (read – Society), painted by GOD himself over three millenium by inducing new colores (read people ) over 2 millinium (raed – history books) . This painting is beautiful because it is painted with many colores. now imagine a single color painting , would anybody appreciate it. i ahve doubts.

    I refuse to accept your filthy comments. and forgive you for that. because we Indians truly believe in power of Kshma- Forgiveness.

    regards

  • http://www.rediff.com Paritosh

    @ moughal
    emperor Ashoka in the first place what did is only plundering and killing the soldiers of Kalinga but not its civilians. so get your history corrected first.

    the atrocities commited by Muslim emperors range from plundering to rape and what else not.
    ok , fine if you dont wanna apologize for the atrocities commited by your ancestors, don do that, however in that context i would justify the 2002 Godhra riots and i would wish that such anti-Muslim riots should occur over and over again.

    India surely was a beautiful painting but was distorted by the black colour of Islamic conquest and rule.

    as far as my comments are concerned they seem to be filthy for you because you cant reply in a sensible manner. and please dont use those Sanskrit words like “Kshama”. you dont deserve to be called an Indian and better stick up to your barbaric and damned Islamic/ Afghan culture

    [Reply]

    moughal Reply:

    Oh god so now claim ownership of Sanskrit …. pretty laudable my friend i think any debate with you will be a sheer waste of time…
    good luck to you …. you live in your exclusion …. India will move ahead …. just a caution…. don’t complain if/ when your eyes open……

    take care

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @moughal
    “Oh god so now claim ownership of Sanskrit …. pretty laudable my friend i think any debate with you will be a sheer waste of time…
    good luck to you …. you live in your exclusion …. India will move ahead …. just a caution…. don’t complain if/ when your eyes open……”

    Actually any debate with a Muslim whose religion is the illogical Islam is in the real sense a waste of time. because anyhow you guys dont see anything beyond your damn Quran and the prophet.

    when it comes to exclusion, its you pests (Muslims) who are still backward and living in the Hijri caledar 7th century era. thats why they still remain out of economic benefits of Indian economic growth while Hindus have moved ahead. and we see how Muslims show their frustration and displeasement when they come to know this, by rioting , bomb blasts etc etc (and what else not).

    [Reply]

    syed Reply:

    @paritosh,
    The future belongs to those who look ahead.
    Why cannot you look beyond muslim rule, godhra etc.

    [Reply]

    Paritosh Reply:

    @ syed ji

    you seem to be a very polite and soft spoken person and i appreciate this virtue of yours. as you said that future belons to those who look ahead is true and even i know it. i dont live in the past, i live today for a better tommorow. but this doesnt mean that i can forget the past so easily where Hindus suffered atrocities from Muslim rulers. any way the time still hasnt come that the Indian Muslims have given up their arrogance. still today we can see many riots provoked and instigated by Muslims. i would like to see the day when they come to peace and live like true Indians rather than like nuisance causing pests. however educated and polite Muslims like you should be respected

    [Reply]

    syed Reply:

    @PAritosh ji,
    why dont you take part in the debate which is going on in Ziia HAq blogs, sense & sensibility & others. I think it might clear up some of your misconceptions.
    regards, syed

  • Raju Kurien

    Pakistan is a failed state.

    It amply demonstrates when “religion” is the focus of a state. Especially when that religion has not undergone any self questioning since 1100s after the Golden Age of Islam.

    They are in a “freeze” as in 1200, when the world is moving fast.

    The key focus we should have is that their terrorists do not cross border to India. I do not think we can do much about reducing terrorism there; it is a natural result of their internal issues.

    [Reply]

  • Maheep Taparia

    Pratibha ji me aapki youth team me shamil hona chahta hu, aap ek bar mere kaam ko dekhiye DESH SEVA ka mouka dijiye……………….

    [Reply]

  • Maheep Taparia

    Pratibha ji me aapki youth team me shamil hona chahta hu, aap mera kaam dekhiye or DESH SEVA ka ek mouka dijiye

    [Reply]

  • karthik

    Religion is also man made. :) .

    [Reply]

  • AKP

    Just a random figure that you could think of? 69%? Do you even have any report to prove this? Based on a survey,69% of reporters publish utter nonsense!

    [Reply]

  • 212

    Hi Mr Expat I don’t know about others however I for one support your thought of abolishing the 6 day working week in India.However that may be easier said then done as the current United Pricks Alliance or the current UPA government of India is run by the corporate sector and are only dummy representatives of people of a banana republic.

    [Reply]

  • Raw Indian

    Coz people think – work is worship…which is WRONG!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

  • saleem khan

    he is not very nice to biharis, rarely mentions sir ali imam, hasan imam, mazhural haque and sir sultan ahmed, typica.

    [Reply]

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