People make peace. Not rulers

I like debating difficult propositions. But running this blog that advocates peace between India and Pakistan has been a trifle exhausting— both emotionally and intellectually. On accounting for exceptions when I touched a chord with some of my readers, the majority view that come out is that I’m being naïve, unrealistic, even outright foolish in showing the flip side of the widely held Indian perceptions of Pakistan.

Much of the prevailing distrust of Pakistan has its genesis in 26/11 when Ajmal Kasab and his hate-driven accomplices attacked Mumbai. The glacial pace at which Islamabad pursued investigations has compounded the prevailing suspicion. Indian opinion has clearly run out of patience and is unwilling to be convinced even by the probe dossier that evidently encouraged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to contemplate resumption of dialogue.

The dossier is a compilation of confessions Pakistan hasn’t ever made on New Delhi’s charge of it being the launching pad for terror-strikes against India. But I’m not the least surprised the people didn’t take it that way and reacted with hostility to the PM’s initiative.

I don’t think the move boomeranged because the joint statement was badly drafted, insinuated an Indian hand in Balochistan and de-linked action against terror from the composite dialogue. It backfired because it was badly timed and lacked popular support that’s key to making peace with a neighbour with whom we’ve fought four wars over six decades— Kargil and the 1947 tribal invasion of Jammu and Kashmir included.

The PM should have known that. He recalled Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s peace pitch in his impressive defence of Sharm-el-Sheikh in Parliament. But he forgot the way his illustrious predecessor built the right climate for talks to progress, by giving the go ahead for the Indo-Pak friendship cricket series despite strong opposition from rabidly anti-Pak elements within the Sangh Parivar. I round-off this blog with another story I published at that time on another beautiful Pakistani who’s no more:

My man Maqbool

Maqbool, my khansama in Pakistan, is no more. I’m told he died a year after I left that country in early 1994. A drug-addict and a family dropout from Faisalabad, he taught me the meaning of that abstract diplomatic phrase: ‘people-to-people contact’.

Thanks to his addiction, Maqbool was always short of money. He’d often remove small change from my pocket, inflate grocery bills and borrow from my friends in the secure belief that I’d clear his debts. What made me put up with this wayward son of a green-card holder was the fierce loyalty, the genuine respect and love he had for me.

Spending an entire day in the Jumma Bazaar (Friday market), he’d return home to announce that he had lost the Rs 200 I gave him for the weekly stock of vegetables. He was incorrigible, so was I in the fond hope that some day, he’d reform.

After a short visit to India, I discovered that Maqbool had sold as ruddi the back issues of Hindustan Times I used as reference material for my dispatches from Islamabad. That was the only time I lost control of myself and hit Maqbool. Remorse personified, he fell at my feet, his wife Kausar and son Saqib watching in dismay. “Saab ji, mainu maaf karo. Mein mazboor se,” he pleaded, alluding to his crippling addiction.

On another occasion, Maqbool vanished for about a week, claiming to have been picked up by snoopers assigned to keep an eye on me. He said he had annoyed them by refusing to be their mukhbar (informer). That prompted me to encourage Maqbool to do his bit for his motherland. In return, he’d collect a couple of hundred rupees from special branch operatives for the silly details they’d seek for their daily reports on the Indian sahafi (journalist).

One such sleuth went by the name of ‘Kamran’. Astride mobike, he’d spend hours outside my bungalow in Islamabad’s harsh winters. The deal with Maqbool suited him fine for it fetched him advance information on my engagements for the day.

Then came December 6, 1992. As right-wing parties ran amok across Pakistan, one got to understand what minorityism was all about: it has less to do with religion. It’s more about the tyranny of numbers.

In a minority of one in my own house, I was a bit troubled. But not Maqbool. He didn’t bring up the subject till the Jang went to town with a chance conversation I had had with Jamat-e-Islami’s Liaquat Baloch outside the Indian mission. I told Baloch that I had no intellectual defence for Ayodhya. But to me, it wasn’t a Hindu-Muslim issue. I saw it as a face-off between secular and non-secular India in which the former was bound to triumph.

When the Jel leader questioned my prognosis, I cited the examples of VP Singh, Mulayam and Laloo Yadav to drive home Indian Muslims’ unwavering trust of leaders who did not belong to their community. The next morning, I woke up to a flurry of telephone calls. My Pakistani friends had read the Jang, to which I didn’t subscribe because I cannot read Urdu. Maqbool rushed to fetch a copy. As I sat on my bed, wrapped in a quilt, he walked up and took me in his arms: “Saabji, tusi sachmuch bada changa bayan ditta hai.”

As it turned out, Maqbool had been taunted by his friends for being in the service of a Hindu whose clansmen demolished the Babri mosque: “But I told them my Saabji is different. He’s been like a father to me.” On another wintry morning in 1994, neighbours watched as Maqbool, Kausar and Saqib wept inconsolably on seeing me bid adieu. We have since been a divided family, so divided that I don’t even know what killed Maqbool – drugs or penury.

(5 votes, average: 4.2 out of 5)

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Posted by Vinod Sharma on Monday, August 3, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Filed under World · Tagged 26/11 dossier, Ajmal Kasab, composite dialogue, india, Indo-Pak ties, maqbool, Pakistan, peace between India and Pakistan

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vikram

Sharmaji the genesis of our distrust goes a bit before 26/11, dont you think. it is only reinforced over generations by days and acts like that. you were probably too kind to maqbool mian and are too kind to pakistan in general.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
And you are too harsh and unforgiving Vikram. You paint with the same brush a poor man who died in early age just because he was a Pakistani. Very unfortunate.

[Reply]
ram Reply:
August 4th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Dear Mr.Sharma,

You are leaving in a u topian dream. Pakistan and INdia are like mongoose and snake.War is only solution to terrorism not pappis-jhappis from Pakistan as gift in form of massacres of innocent Indian civilians and security forces. MIGHT IS RIGHT AND INDIANS LIKE YOU WILL NEVER LEARN if you prefer to be fooled by the villainous and dastardly Pakistanis. What is the use if you have so called 4th largest military in the world but cannot protect your citizens like China and USA? Please note all Peaceniks like PM SIngh and Sonia Gandhi-Supreme Leader of COngresswallahs are protected by wealth, power of Black cat commandos and security worth Millins of Dollars not available for citizens of Mumbai- so they can get away with such foolish statements as Sharmanak in Egypt. If

God forbid-Only if you lose dear ones/friends in terror strikes from Satanic Pakistanis you will have learned your lesson.

Jai Hind

Ram
Singapore

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Dear Ram,
Sorry, don’t mean to hurt you. But your post reads like a speech at a street-corner public meeting.
Jai Hind

[Reply]
sohail Reply:
August 25th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Chetan Bhagat, Hindustan Times
August 24, 2009
First Published: 23:22 IST(24/8/2009)
Last Updated: 23:25 IST(24/8/2009)

Recently, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met his Pakistani counterpart Yousaf Raza Gilani and they made a joint statement de-linking terror and bilateral talks. A massive reaction followed. The media, desperate for sensational news items so they can compete with the reality shows, ran several stories on how we had not shown a ‘firm’ hand and the statement was seen as a loss of national pride. Our MPs, eager to leave Parliament like college students wanting to bunk classes, staged several walkouts (by the way, where do they walk out to?).

Our attitude shows we really don’t want to reconcile with Pakistan. Sure, we’d like relations to be better but deep down there is resentment and anger. More than anything else, we want to teach Pakistan a lesson. We want to put them in their place. Bashing Pakistan is considered patriotic. It also makes for great politics.

We may feel our PM made a mistake by agreeing to talk to them before resolving the Mumbai terror attacks case. However, let me tell you this — whether we talk to Pakistan or not, we are extraordinarily involved with them. We can cut off all contact; our leaders can exchange dirty looks with theirs and pretend they don’t exist. However, every single Indian’s future is linked to Pakistan and we all pay our dues in keeping the fight going. The reason is our defence budget. At Rs 140,000 crore (up to per cent this year), this is the most expensive government spending item, most of which is because of Pakistan.

For patriotic reasons, defence spends are never questioned. After all, how can you question spending money on soldiers who give up their lives on the border? However, the bigger question is, did they have to give up their lives in the first place? And the second issue we need to understand is, for the amount we spend on defence, what are we giving up?

Yes, there is idealism in saying — ‘we must have a strong army’. However, we are a poor nation. When you are poor, you need to be practical too. I think all Indians must have a re-think about three areas before we arrive at a consensus on our defence strategy.

Foreign policy: Our foreign policy document is not a statement of national ego. It is a document that should articulate how we can best use our relationships with the outside world for the benefit of the country. Forget politicians — I want to ask my fellow Indians — how badly do we want Kashmir? At the cost of making colleges for the young generation in the country? At the cost of not doing irrigation projects for our farmers? At the cost of not building roads and power plants? At the cost of living in high inflation forever? Because, even though it may not be obvious, these items are linked. The budget for defence is more than all the above items put together. Our government doesn’t have unlimited money, so what’s better? Keep the fight going and prevent progress — or, do what it takes to make peace, and use the money to build a stronger nation. The foreign policy document can play a big role in that.

Strategic defence alliance: The new globalised world has interlinked economies like never before. Nobody does it all by themselves. We can have an alliance with another nation if the aim of defence is to protect our borders. For instance, America has a big need to ensure safety of its own borders and cut global terrorism. We can work with them — yes, by giving them some access to our country. For us, it can save costs of protecting ourselves. For them, they have a better control over a volatile region. We may shudder at the presence of American involvement in our defence, but frankly what advantage could they gain against us if they help us protect our borders? In this technology-driven age, do you really think America doesn’t have the information or capability to launch an attack against India? Neither do they want to attack us. They have much to gain from our potential market for American products and cheap outsourcing. Well, let’s outsource some of our defence to them, make them feel secure and save money for us. Having a rich, strong friend rarely hurt anyone.

Good, old-fashioned peace: The land of Buddha and Gandhi seems to have lost its peace goals. We want talk to Pakistan — but more to put them in their place and shove our point of view down their throat. Frankly, such defiance may win claps from an audience in a cinema hall, but is no attitude for peace. We may think Pakistan is always wrong and we deserve Kashmir — but when we are in a negotiation, we have to give the other party some room. We may not be happy about it, but we can learn to live with it.

We need to have peace not only because it is a good thing — but also because we can’t afford to fight or stay prepared to fight for the next 20 years. We are hiring more security guards outside the house when there isn’t money to put the kids in school. The defence budget has to be controlled and with the right policies and attitudes, we can. Money spent on bullets doesn’t give returns, money spent on better infrastructure does.

And maybe that’s what our Prime Minister had in mind when he continued the dialogue. At least the optimist in me hopes so.

Chetan Bhagat’s latest book is The Three Mistakes of My Life

[Reply]
vijay Reply:
August 4th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
ur talking abt peace i lost my mother in 26/11 attacts at the cst station if u can recall israeli athletes were killed by palestinian militants in the 1972 olympics n then the israle intellegence ageny revenged the grusome killings of their countrymen at the olympics by killing each n every person involved in tht grusme attact 800 logo ke chitthe udgaye the 26/11 ko kuch karz hai hamara un par u voice matters but i cried when sayeed was released manmohan singh is a honrable man but i dont want any peace until each n every person assoited with the attacks r nt hanged. Ur talking in this way coz no 1 personal was killed of urs im soory but hd ur mother been killed their then i would hv cn ur responce

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Sorry to hear that you lost your mother during 26/11. This blog does not condone terrorism or bloodshed. It’s object is to root such trends out forever. The difference is of approach. Isreal you
must remember is still waging the war. Retributive killings are an accepted tool in statecraft but
not the only tool.

[Reply]
Akash Reply:
August 6th, 2009 at 4:51 am
It’s quite insensitive of you Vinodji to talk about your “approach” when all it has given us in the last 10 years is more and more of such attacks. Shouldn’t we have a different approach? Bombay attack was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Let Pakistan prosecute and punish the guilty and only then, would talk have any meaning. Before any tangible progress on that front, all your teary-eyed stories only rouse irritation and anger. No one says the all Pakistanis are guilty of such barbarism, but one wonders when all we see is widespread support for all the jehadi group in open collection of money and support. We switch Pakistani channels and all we see is a continued denial by so-called elite of the country. Imagine what would have happened if Kasab was not caught alive. Incredibly, even now, some people in the establishment continue to ask for evidence! And to imagine, there were groups criticizing us for not sending the cricket team in the immediate aftermath of the attacks! Worse than the attacks has been the skulduggery of the Pakistani elite in making fantastic stories about hindu-zionist collaboration to defame their country. It’s not our job to prop that chimerical liberal class in their country. Let them grow balls and come out in open to denounce and punish such acts of violence perpetrated by their brethren in other countries. Otherwise, you can lock your stories or tell them to your dog. They are like salt on our wounds.
One can understand your maudlin and romantic attachment to that country, but why should the whole country pay for it. Would you, for example, have the same emotions and approach if Bangladesh or Bhutan was the perpetrator?

Gustavo Franco Reply:
August 6th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Mr. Sharma,
I´m a journalist from Spain and will be next week on Delhi, to go Kashmir in the next days. Preparing some chronicles, because is an apassionate topic for me!
I really would appreciate if you accepted to take a coffe with me next week, before my trip to Srinigar. As a journalist, I´m always looking for meet other colleagues around the world.

Best regards,
Gustavo Franco Cruz
http://- Rajeev

According to me-
Shiv Sena = Jamat-e-Islami
Congress (I) = Pre-partition muslim league (because congress is doing exactly what Jinnah wanted for a UNIFIED India, a preferential treatment for muslim).

We will see India divided into atleast three countries i.e. North-East as cheristian state, Many pockets of India as Independent muslim states.

The dream of Hindustan is meeting its pre-destined fate.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Rajeev,
Never imagined that you were an astrologer. Pl recommend some upay (solution) to avoid this vipda (danger).

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
No, I am not an astrologer but a firm believer of history repeating itself.
Remember pakistan was created within 6 years and the instrument was violence against hindus starting from Direct action day.

It will happen again all of a sudden and now it may take just 1 year to dis-integrate India.

The solution to all this is to stop divisive policies (as promoted by congress by sachar committee, Personal laws etc.) and allow constituitional right of EQUALITY to blossom.

Let Hindus and Muslims be equal and state should stop favoring any religion.

[Reply]
Nikhil

Vinod,

Your title to the post is not entirely true. Peace has to be achieved by both the people and their rulers. For instance, India has been welcoming people-to-people contact for a decade now. There is a steady stream of politicians, patients, artists and intellectuals from across the border. India is better off as a result of it. But the nefarious design of destruction originating from Pakistan towards India has not drowned out. Instead, India has been accused of everything that is going wrong in Pakistan.

In my view, the idea of Pakistan and the idea of India are mutually toxic. One is rooted in religion other is not; one stands for exclusion and the other for inclusion. Pakistan has not evolved beyond the reason – usually means “not India” – why it was created. Much work has to be done by Pakistan on this front before it finds peace with itself and its neighbors.

[Reply]
Ankit

I am sorry, but this seems like a continuation of the simplistic view that you have been propagating here. Of course, most Pakistanis are decent and good people, just like Indians, or Afghans or Americans or Russians. Let us not forget that history is replete with stories of individual kindness and decency of the Germans during the second world war, even as the German state was waging war over the whole of Europe and was indulging in the one of the greatest ethnic cleansing ever done.

People make peace when they elect the government, when the government is accountable to the people and when the government policy is a broad reflection of the public opinion. When there are rulers, and Pakistan has rulers not elected governments, it is the rulers who make or break peace.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I can accuse you of being an alarmist. But I wouldn’t do that. The short point I made was that Dr Manmohan Singh should have prepared the people for his peace initiative the way Vajpayee did before 2004. The german parallel is way off the mark. There is in Pakistan a huge body of opinion that wants peace and has had enough of the talibans and the mullahs. Their numbers need to be expanded. And for that there have to be more voices of reason on our side as well.

[Reply]
vijay kumar

Dar Vinodji,

You know as well as I do. THat this generation of Pakistanis got its schooling in madrrassas and in schools with curriculam made by the evil cobra Gen Zia. So is there any point in talking, if their intention is to kill us and our through terror, while maintaining an outward facade of friendship??????

[Reply]
kara

Hi vinod

I m a Pakistani and hv visited ur blog for the first time. You are doing great but unfortunately people in general are not willing to accept the separation of India an Pakistan. I know its very hard to forget about your part but what has been done is done so why shed tears. Lets move on and think about the future. I know common man in India or Pakistan is against the war as he is fight against the poverty and other things in life. Being a simple Pakistan I just want to ask my Indian friends (who have given their opinions above) have you ever asked your governments about that is Pakistan really a threat to India? Can’t we live in peace with our neighbors? Just tell me who is gaining in this fight of Indo/Pak? only the arm selling countries. We are so much desperate to get the latest weapons that we have forgotten about our own people who are living below the poverty line. What ever happened in mumbai we didn’t like it as those who died were innocent peoples , had nothing to do with international politics , we know the pain of loosing the loved ones as we go through this almost daily in our country. So, Please I request you all, not as a Pakistani or Indian but as a human please stop hating each other and live peacefully and pressurize our respective leaders to stop this hatred game just to gain votes, money and power.

God bless you vinod.

[Reply]
Nikhil Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Kara,

Thank you for your views. I doubt the majority in India want to undo partition. Unfortunately, this is something Pakistanis believe; or lead to believe. In fact, many in India, especially the new generation, have no desire to expand India’s territory or fight wars near the borders. At the same time, the majority of Indians do not want to part with an inch of their territory. I see this as normal. What many Indians dislike is what Pakistan has become over the years; that is military rule, feudalism and center for terrorism.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 1:36 am
You should ask urself why would we need your pakistan when we already have 160 million muslims. Don’t we have enough on our hands?

Your country should have kept an open door policy for Indian muslims. Our INNOCENT Indian muslims are discriminated, oppressed and killed all the time. Why don’t you take your brethern to land of Pure.

[Reply]
kara Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Dear Rajeev

Thanks for you reply.

I don’t think that India is the country for only Hindus. And if it is then why you want only Pakistan to open its door for INDIAN muslims you should also other countries as well to open their doors for christians, tamils, buddhist, jews etc, why only Pakistan. I didn’t write for the fight and I just wanted to clear the perception that common people in Pakistan are not as bad as you think. So stop being fanatic , bro.

Dear vinod we also don’t want to expand an inch in our territory or war with our neighbours as we are already fighting within our own borders. We all need peace we all don’t want to loose our love ones we don’t want to loose our bright future , we should throw away that hatred as its no use of it.

God bless you.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I know both Najam Sethi and Jugnu Mohsin. They are people with balanced view. They don’t out of their way (like you) to appease Indians. Same is true with Asma Jehangir.

They don’t behave like hindus to appease Indians.

I have lot of patience to understand but it looks like you are totally convinced that you know all about pakistani psyche and others are fools.

Rajeev Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Kara,
But you think that Pakistan is country only for muslims. Stop preachin us about peace and tolerance.
You people are real fanatics who not only divided this land but are still looling to divide us further.
No more sermons.

Visit http://www.pakistanidefenceforum.com and preach your jahil countrymen there who keep calling Indians RATS and BHANGI.
Usman Chaudhry

All,

Lets stop this blame-game and focus on our priorities. But YES! peace initiates with people. I’ve seen good number of Indian artists coming over to Pakistan and offering a hand of friendship. People like Mahesh Bhatt, Dilip Kumar, Nandita Das, Amir Khan, Naseer udin Shah, have visited Pakistan with a good hope of bright future and same in return was offered by their counterparts in India.

BTW good work Vinod gee! I sense a good hope of Indo-Pak friendship.

Usman
Lahore, Pakistan

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 1:34 am
Please also name some Pakistanis peaceniks who bend backward and behave like hindus to appease Indians.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Dear Rajeev,
I don’t think your questions deserve an answer because of the way they are framed. But because it is my commitment to keep the dialogue going on this blog, I must name Asma Jahangir, Jugnu Mohsin and Imtiaz Alam of SAHR, Friday Times and SAFMA who have consisitently pursued peace with India.There are many more but I’m sure you neither have the interest, nor the patience to know them or study their work.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I know both Najam Sethi and Jugnu Mohsin. They are people with balanced view. They don’t out of their way (like you) to appease Indians. Same is true with Asma Jehangir.

They don’t behave like hindus to appease Indians.

I have lot of patience to understand but it looks like you are totally convinced that you know all about pakistani psyche and others are fools.

vinod Reply:
August 8th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Dear Rajeev,
How many times have you been to Pakistan? How well do you know Najam, Jugnu and Asma? From your reply, it is evident you do not know Imtiaz Alam who termed 26/11 as Zardari’s Kargil (in terms of its impact on his stated political line of befriending India). There are scores of others who are balaced, even biased in favour of India since the Mumbai attack.
I suggest you learn to listen to contrarian views. Our else you would remain uneducated on certain issues. But from you vocabulary —- appeasement etc— I am not sure whether you engage with me to share or to snare and insult.

Nilay Saha Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Hatred breeds hatred. War breeds war. In this case between India and Pakistan, terrorism cannot be tolerated. Any country should protect its own borders no matter which outside country it is. In this case if the terrorists have come from Pakistan India has every right to retaliate against them If Pakistan fails to cooperate with India then appropriate actions needs to be taken. Better border security and intelligence.

Also peace building efforts needs to be supported on both sides. But this requires that the political parties on both sides are willing. If that is not the case then no amount of political handshaking will work.

To root out the problem we need to spread proper education in the muslim countries. There is no evil that cannot be rooted out via education. Human beings finally are all same. Only situations force us to behave differently.

With all the money spent on war etc. if it was allocated for education would do a world of good. It takes time but all good things take time and commitment. One generation sacrifices for another.

What we need is unity of hindus and muslims. That is easler said than done I know but an effort has to be made.

West has understood all these issues. So they never fight over these things. They focus on the macro picture and they stay united financially among themselves. India will become great and then the western powers will have lesser control of the region than they do now. Only we need as individuals to develop tolerance and love for others.

As we say if each part of the machine is well oiled the machine runs well. We are the units of the society. And if we cultivate peace, goodness and strength in us that is going to show in the society. No dogmatism, illogical hatred and non progressive thinking can take us forward.

vinod Reply:
August 13th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
The last sentence of your blog says it all. I ditto it.

Rajeev Reply:
August 10th, 2009 at 6:55 am
Vinod,
Your know-all attitude is hallmark of Indian psyche. You think that the pakistanis whom you know personally represent the true psyche of that nation.

I have pakistani friends and let me tell you they all are very good at individual level but when it comes to religion, we are all infidel for them.

You are perfect example of hindu large heartedness (right from the day of Prithviraj Chauhan) that never learns any lesson from history.

Good luck in your mission.

I hope future 26/11 will not ruin your PERSONAL mission.
Nikhil

Vinod,

Any Indian peace contingent, no matter how small or big, can do far less if the rulers and the establishment in Pakistan are not ready to permanently strike peace with India. Look at the double standards that Pakistan maintains in treating terrorists that strike the West and those who strike India.

When it comes to LeT, JuD or HuM any evidence given by Indians is never enough to stand in the court of law in Pakistan. So poor are the expectations that the mere admission of guilt by Pakistan in 26/11 is celebrated by the ‘candle-wallahs’ in India. In the face of incontrovertible evidence and the pressure from foreign governments, a bankrupt Pakistan had to fall in line. It’d have been foolish of it not to.

On the contrary in Pakistan, the West get its most wanted terrorists with little or no evidence. On the basis of speculation or intelligence murmur, Pakistan promptly hands over its citizens to the US who are put behind bars in Guantamo bay without hope of any trial. This unreserved co-operation demonstrated towards the US is not because of unending affection that Pakistani peaceniks carry in their hearts for the Americans and the British.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Dear Rajeev,
U haven’t reverted with answers to my question as to how well do you the people I mentioned in my response to your post. By the way, do you know I A Rehman and Niaz Naik? Have you heard of Asfandyar Wali, Naseem Wali Khan and a whole lot of ANP workers who strive for peace with India? Even the likes of Maulana Fazlur Rahman have deduced that Indo-Pak entente is essential for the collective well being of south asia and for keeping out external intervention here.
I have been engaging with you for creative solutions to the problem that’s very complex and burdened with the history you keep repeating. But we have to move on and not be straddled by the hatred of the past.
As one last effort, I beseech you to come up with a balanced view, not the kind of jingoism that’s the lingua franca of racists and communalists across countries, faiths and regions.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I have heard of all those who you have mentioned including Niaz Naik who was found murdered in his house few days back. These are some decent people from Pakistan who never cross a line when it comes to appeasing Indian (as is your case with respect to pakistanis).

I have been enagaging with you to moderate your views. My views may be harsh which I need to moderate but you also need moderation in your ultra-liberal view. You must remember safety and well being of your country comes first. We have been appeasing Pakistan and their supporters in India for 62 years, what have we achieved? According to you lives of thousands of defence personnel and innocent civillian is cheap and are nothing to achieve peace with Pakistan.

There can be no DURABLE peace with pakistan till it comes out of “EQUAL TO INDIA” mindset. They must accept they are small country and are in not our league. As far as kashmir is concerned, I have simple solution. We will give Kashmir VALLEY to them provided they take all 160 million Indian muslims also. If they are so hell bent on taking real estate why not take some loyal soldiers of Allah with it.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Dear Rajeev,
your problem is that you hear a lot and base your views on hearsay. If you don’t mind a bit of unsolicited advice, pl apply your mind deeper to issues. When I talk about peace with Pakistan, I aren’t by any stretch of imagination advocating surrender or diregard of national interest. Non-engagement with that country will in fact compromise India’s standing in the world as a responsible nuclear power.
Have you ever imagined that if there is tension on Indo-Pak borders, the detractors of the Indo-US civil nuclear deal in the West will get an excuse to scuttle it by presenting south asia as a potential nuclear flash point? Many other such consequences will follow, including the charge of weakening the fight against terror on the Pak-Afghan border where Islamabad is looking for alibi to withdraw its forces.

Rajeev Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Dear Vinod,
I would like to emphasise that my opinion are not based on hearsay.
I have been interacting with overseas pakistan (on net) for close to 15 years now and I can say with confidence that people never speak truth when you meet them in person. Your experiences are based on your personal interactions with pakistanis. They would never say or do anything in person to offend your sensibilities.

I do not doubt your patriotism but I find you very naive, idealistic and not at all pragmatic.

I’ve no problems with pakistanis or their country but their continuous justification of terror against India puts people like me off. How can they even justify terror as their foreign policy tool?

India (except for last 10 years) have never played in western hands but pakistan has been sitting in their lap and chinese lap for more than 4 decades. Isn’t it the duty of pakistanis to think rationally?

I’m all for indo-pak friendship but I’d never support conceding an inch of Indian land to pak based on twisted TWO-NATION-THEORY.

Rajeev Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Vinod,
The west has treated India like $hit because we have never interacted with them as EQUALS.
I don’t consider a model for us but when it comes to dealing with west and separatism, China should be considered as GURU.

vinod Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Dear Rajeev,
Who’s arguing (while pitching for peace) that it be secured by conceding territory? You forget in your misplaced belligerence and militarism that India’s claim on J&K (the only Muslim majority state in India) is based on we declaring ourselves as a non-denominational secular state after Independence. If we foresake that moral high ground at the bidding of maximalists (deliberately not calling you a hawk for the sake of a civilised argument which you often vitiate by using words like naive and all ) like you, we’d only weaken our claim on Kashmir. So please please stop being overtly aggressive. The best defence of India’s interest can only be at the negotiating table, not in the battlefield as you always tend to argue. History tells us that most wars are followed by talks.

Sumeer Sharma Reply:
August 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Hi ..Vinod ji …I have seen ideas being exchanged between Rajeev & Vinod here . I wud like to know wud it be good idea for India to startegicaly work twds internal security (defensive approach) with sincerity and work on its policy to make itself stronger from any terrorist attacks and lateraly focus on CHINA to avoid any Military aggression from North / North East. Then may be we can forget pakistan for good and move ahead . I think we spend too much time on pakistan , we can resolve on same if we have a good …really good internal agency to deal with inetigence and counter terrorist Activities from Nepal / Bdesh.

Rajeev Reply:
August 18th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Totally agree with you. We are wasting too much energy on nuisance called Pakistan.

If India has to emerge as strong nation, we should learn to treat the neighbours the way they deserve.

vinod Reply:
August 19th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Dear Rajeev,
Sometimes I suspect that you are on steroids for you are needlessly aggressive even while making
a simple sensible point. My unsolicited advice to you is that learn to argue softly to make others take you more seriously.

Rajeev Reply:
August 20th, 2009 at 7:38 am
and I think you are on sedatives.
If you start being little bit realistic, people may take you seriously.

Rajeev Reply:
August 20th, 2009 at 7:40 am
I too have some sense of humour. I hope you are not hurt by my last remark.

I appreciate your advice.

vinod Reply:
August 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Dear Sumeer,
Yes, of course, internal security has to be the first priority. That achieved, we can deal with our neighbours more confidently.

Rajeev Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Vinodji,
I do agree that being hawk will not achieve anything but can you explain me why hawks like China and US are more successful than us in defending their territory and interest. Are these country getting what they want based on Moral high ground or pragamatic policy based on national interest.

I’d never want India to leave secularism and become a hindu state but we need to tackle the problems without mincing words.
I don’t want India to carpet bomb Kashmir (as pakistan did in balochistan) but India should tackle it with iron hand. One of the best way to do that is to launch massive anti-separatist propaganda and then neutralise the trouble makers.

Once kashmiris are placated, pakistan will loose its Kashmir moral high ground and then we can all live in peace.
http://none me

people make sincere efforts for maintaining peace but finishing touches are in hand of rulers .

[Reply]
Usman Chaudhry Reply:
August 9th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I like that phrase and it sounds true as well.

[Reply]
kara Reply:
August 11th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Me, you are right.

And for mr. rajeev, I m not interested to give sermons to peoples like you as I am here only because of vinod’s genuine efforts for peace. But you have only hatred in ur head and in ur heart. Thats all I can say for you.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
I don’t need one from a person who belongs to Jehadi country.

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 15th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Dear Rajeev,
Comparions with China are improper as its not a parliamentary democracy. As for the US, under Barak Obama it is trying to gain moral high ground by shutting down torture chamber such as Guatenamo Bay. Also, do you recall the way he reached out to Muslims in his address in Egypt? India has to befriend its neighbours to defeat also the Chinese gameplan of encircling us through hostile neighbours.

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 16th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Vinodji,
If you look at the history only powerful nations have tasted success in all fields including peace. India has been on moral high ground horse for close to 2500 years and what have we achieved. We have been shrinking (loosing territories) for past 2500 years whereas stong nations have gained territory including respect and fear of others.

But I do appreciate your sentiments. Yours is the more respectable way but totally ineffective. We will be pushed around by everyone because IS DUNIYA MEIN SHARIFON KE LIYE KOI ZAGAH NAHI HAI.

Regards

[Reply]
Rajeev Reply:
August 16th, 2009 at 6:04 am
By the way China is respected and feared more than India…and that is what matters..No one gives two hoots for democracy.

[Reply]
http://kvsubramanyam.wordpress.com/ Subramanyam K.V.

hi Vinodji

Nice perspective, I too believe that peace is the only way forward.I believe the educated and responsible citizens of both the countries have a role to play in this.
I did not know about this blog till date ,I’ll be a regular visitor from now on.The irony is that, I wrote a post on partition and post partition antagonism that is surviving till date and called it “separated at birth” yesterday , and today I stumble on a Blog titled “separated at birth”.

Hope I am not infringing any copy right related issue here. Please let me know if I have done anything of that sort, I have no qualms in removing my post.

I invite you read my post. Here is the link of my post.

http://kvsubramanyam.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/separated-at-birth/

[Reply]
vinod Reply:
August 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Dear KVS,
I shall never claim a copyright on peace making. It’s one patent that belongs to all good human beings. Shall revert to you on reading your similarly titled post.

[Reply]
http://www.bestfinance-blog.com LadonnaSloan

I received 1 st credit loans when I was 32 and this helped my family a lot. But, I need the collateral loan once more time.

[Reply]
Shakthi Rao_007

hey..can u give me the citation of the tamil nadu case?

[Reply]
Anil

Have not we heard when a Congress man/women speaks they say it’s a very “complex” matter as their best of the best of arguments? How you can expect simple matters in life who see everything complex? Upholding of law is complex, having a strong Lokpal is complex, fighting terrorists is complex, complex, complex, complex.

Only way to simplify is to kick their back side as soon as one can put their
legs on it.

[Reply]
Ram Putre Singh

WHY, IS MAYAWATI SO PRETTY OR IS SHE SO RAPEABLE, CONSIDERING HER LOOKS OF A PIG, AND HER SIZE OF A ELEPHANT, THAT SHE SHOULD BE OFFERED A CRORE TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO BEING RAPED. SHE HAS RAPED ALL IN UP AND DESERVES TO BE RAPED BY A ORANG UTAN, A DONKEY, A DOG, AND AN ELEPHANT

[Reply]
vic778899 tor

History shows that Gandhis do not have a Hindu lineage. Gyasudin (Motilal’s father) changed his name to Gangadhar when on the run from the British. Nehru bears no resemblance to Motilal. Nehru was not fathered either by Mobarrak Ali (the lawyer) or Nawab of Oudh. Nehru was circumcised at birth and grew up in the household of Nawab of Oudh. Nehru was educated in Urdu, Farsi and English. That’s why most of his speeches are in English. Indira Gandhi eloped with Feroze Khan and converted to Islam to marry him. Indira became Maimuna Begum. Rajiv was fathered by Feroze and Sanjay was fathered by Mohamad Yunus. After Rajiv’s death, Sonia has with the blessings of congress cronies simply hijacked the party and the nation. Sonia hates Hindus and she has enticed congress men to convert with large sums of money and positions of power. Look what she has done to North East India. Temples are destroyed openly and priests killed with total impunity. Indian media is so controlled by foreigners and congress henchmen that not much gets to most Indians.

[Reply]
annu singh

Always remember Walmart and its look alike is not doing any good in any of the country stated above. So how will it benefit India. In India we are very cost consious, I purchase mostly from 2 kms away vegetable market than supermarket at 50 mtrs.
Remember one person going out of job will lead to one member more to the looters club.

[Reply]
KALYAN DHALL

I beg to differ with Mr. Arnab Mitra on some basic fundamentals viz.
1) For organised retail which stands to benefit the producer and the consumer, FDI is not mandatory. AMUL – GCMMF model is proof of that.
2) Elimination of middle-men in today’s Indian society cannot be envisaged till the entire political culture of India undergoes a sea change. Let’s not forget, if the rule of the law is allowed to prevail, then 80% of our so called leaders, irrespective of their political affiliation, will be rotting in jails for the rest of their lives.
3) China cannot be an example to emulate in any sphere due to Indian socio-economic environment as there are no common traits whatsoever.
4) Most importantly, whether Congress has the people’s mandate to implement such an important policy decision is hugely questionable.

[Reply]
Abu Ahmed

We have built-in some safeguards while allowing FDI in retail in, let us build some more in order to make sure that there will be more of beneficial and less or adversarial effects on our economy and people.

[Reply]
ssraja

Sir let the FDI come .Because these middle men r looting the farmers for centuries in this country .what farmer earns in farming for the work for a year
a broker makes in a minute.the sad part is that a farmer dosn’t have proper dhoti ,where as a middle man moves in a mercedes .the country’s middle men have made lot of money and they r dictating terms.let the farmer see good days.

[Reply]

People make peace. Not rulers

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