India in the Thinker’s Cafe

Have you heard that Premier Wen Jiabao is in New Delhi? When I posted the question this week, I ended up informing some Beijingers that their leader happened to be in India.

The three-day meeting achieved more on trade deals and camera-friendly handshakes than strategic substance. The joint statement hit a discordant note over China’s Kashmir policy with India leaving out a standard reference to Tibet and the one-China principle included in past statements. As HT reported, there was no change in India’s official stance but the joint statement was less explicit.

The Chinese media reports said the visit was a success.

On Saturday morning in a quiet cafe above a dusty bookstore, I got a sense of softening public opinion on the bilateral relationship, compared to before the visit. (However, on some People’s Daily forums there were strains of dismay and rebuke from netizens against fence-mending overtures.)

I was at the Thinker’s Café, a hangout for intellectuals and bookworms in a suburb of students and young migrants. A waitress with Chanel emblazoned on her jeans served my cappuccino. Sweatshirts and spectacles seemed to be the standard customer id except for the Buddhist in maroon robe at a corner table next to a window bathed in sunshine. A toy Santa, reindeer and assorted stuffed animals stood on the centrepiece next to traditional porcelain vases.

At the table next to us, IT professional Lei Qu said he had missed news of the India-China dialogue in Delhi. I asked him if he thinks India and China are friends, rivals or just neighbours. “Most of the time India and China are friends,’’ he said. “The most important thing in the 21st century is economic ties. Friendship is good for both sides. The disagreements will not affect people-to-people ties and business ties.’’

Lei’s views were not shaped by state-run propaganda. He said he reads the newspapers but doesn’t find regular news about India in the Chinese media with exceptions for dispatches on Bollywood and the disputed border. Lei spent five years as a computer science student in Los Angeles, where he made friends with Indian students and formed his own impressions of India. For instance: Indians are good at business…and they talk a lot’’.

Wang Shan who brought us the bill said she had followed Wen’s visit on national television. “India and China are neither friends nor rivals,’’ said the former law student. “They are just neighbours.’’ She was the only Chinese person I met that day who knew about the Premier’s tour of India. She explained her belief that India-China cannot be rivals because they have ‘no disagreements’. It’s not uncommon to hear the Chinese express friendship toward India, but it’s rare to meet someone who sums up that the neighbours sharing a disputed border don’t have disputes.

The previous day in another part of Beijing, an elderly school teacher who is an avid newspaper reader had also expressed the same view. “India-China are just neighbours without any disagreements,’’ said Zhang Qiuyan. “Nowadays, relations between the US, Japan, Korean Peninsula are pretty tough, so we are eager to make friends with India, which faces the same developmental challenges as China. Wen’s visit to India will improve relations.”

The café had emptied so we went down a staircase lined with dusty pumpkins forgotten since Halloween. Next to a few translated copies of Aurobindo’s Letters on Yoga, we met Tsinghua journalism and communications student Alexander Lui. He thinks that India-China are friendly neighbours and it’s ‘a pity’ that he doesn’t have more Indian students to interact with on campus.

“We all know India has a long history. India gave birth to major religions like Buddhism.’’

What do you know about modern India?

He laughed good-naturedly. “I know basic facts…Gandhi, Nehru…and no more!’’

Back home, I was still thinking about the comments jotted in my notebook. So I reread Wen’s speech in New Delhi. “China and India should always be partners and friends. We should never be rivals. We should tell this to everyone.”

(9 votes, average: 4.89 out of 5)

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Posted by Reshma Patil on Sunday, December 19, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Filed under Rest of Asia · Tagged Beijing, bilateral relationship, Bollywood, Buddhism, Buddhist, China, chinese media, Gandhi, India, India-China bilateral relations, India-China dialogue, Indian students, Japan, Korea, Korean Peninsula, Lei Qu, Nehru, New Delhi, Premier Wen Jiabao, Thinker’s Café, US, Wen Jiabao, Yoga

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Anonymous

Modi rightly denied these so called paltry gifts. He has every right to demonstrate his pleasure or displeasure about head gears & robes. I am glad that he did not stoop to meanness. The message would have been that Modi had been conquered by a paltry skull cap. Modi should keep winning hearts by good administration & progress of his subjects.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:50 pm
And keep making inflamatory speeches, which in turn signal his followers to attack minorities, particularly Muslims in Gujarat.

[Reply]
shallabh khera Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:40 am
The inflammatory speeches bursting from Mosque’s loudspeakers everyday in Srinagar, Assam, UP and Kerala are enough to tell us what we have seen in last 1000 years of Islamic Jehad..
Thank you all Porki lovers can go to Pakistan, Bangladesh which have been given to bomb whatever they like….
We want development, jobs…

58 hindus burnt by Muslims… are all forgotten… as Hindu lives are not important and they are dividded and whih is reason why Muslims were able to rule India and convert them by sword…

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:10 am
So in your way of thinking, Modi a militant Hindu, is no different from militant Muslims.

If that is the case then I agree with you.

Sanjeev Pandey Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:42 am
nflamatory speeches or grand posturing of being supporter of a community can influence fools like u who wont use won mind and would be influneced by 3-4 news anchors who would dish out what ever ehy wish u to feed..the problem with people like u is thar u are too simplistic to see beyond wht is being shown to u..

[Reply]
Judge Stern Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:51 am
That’s your imagination that his acts will inspire others to act against Muslims! The Muslims in India are far more emboldened to act against Hindus compared to the Hindus being belligerent to act against Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:11 am
Not my imagination, but a considered conclusion of an eminent lawyer, Raju Ramachandran.

RajX Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 7:33 am
An eminent unknown

RajX Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
It just needs some common sense and awareness to know that there has been no accounts of bombs being triggered by Hindus in Pakistan even though the state of Pakistan has institutionalized discrimination against nonmuslims, the Pakistan society there has institutionalized kidnapping, rape and forced conversion of Hindu girls into the Arab cult and the world including supposedly “Hindu India” has turned a blind eye to all this. Does ur mind need “eminent lawyers” and can’t work on it’s own based on known facts?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TGJCOVTI3D4I5L7YFTOD2RXC3A K. Syed

It proves how much he hates the Muslims. Even the RSS and the BJP might not be having such a strong feeling against the Muslims as Modi has. When he cannot love his own mother, wife and brothers how one can expect from him to love Muslims of a different community as he is so communal from his inner belief and thought. Very soon he too will go in the same way as how yadiyurappa got from the above organizations. The moment he becomes a liability to them they will disown him and he will be no whare. That day is fast approaching. The 2002 Gujarat Riots and his role in it against a particular community speaks volumes in support of it. Let one wait for that moment.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Will you accept Tilak and Prasad? How about Ramnami shawl?

You bloody thug..don’t teach us secularism?

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:04 am
Yeduriappa is corrupt. There are no corruption scandals involving Modi yet. Maybe it’s your wish that he get caught in a corruption scandal but maintain some sense so you can distinguish between what’s your wish and what is reality. Rejecting an Arab religious symbol is not a sign of hating any Indian religious group.

[Reply]
Judge Stern Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:00 am
If the Muslims and their leaders renounce the advocacy of JEHAD against other religious followers as well as accept the fact that Islam needs to exist with other religions in peaceful existence, all Indians will accept their gifts without any reservations. The innuendo created with the statement like yours is coming out of inferiority complex that is based on emotional feelings!

[Reply]
roshan ramakrishnan

i would first like a muslim mla, mp or minister wearing tilak or accepting a prasad…..ha……talking about secularism……..it is applicable to muslims too…..why don’t u write how the iuml external affairs minister mr ahmed refused to light a lamp during his stint as railway ministry………u r acting dumb…..

[Reply]
Neovasan

skull caps, keffiyah are exclusive “identities” of Islam. He did accept shawls generic to all cultures. It’s pure double standards..will any muslim accept temple prasadam? i have muslim frnds n nonone touches..

[Reply]
Anonymous

What about simple hindu gifts of Prasad and Tilak to Bukhari, Saudi King and other muslim leaders?

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Ah…that wont work. Hindus are idolators. The “one and only holy book and user guide for life” from the arabs has already called these idolators evil. Bukhari from Bukhara and the Saudi king are MUSLIM and hence superior because the book says so. If the book says so, then it must be true. Since the book is not from humans but from god, you can’t question the book. This is how the Islamist circular thought works. If the book says the world is flat, then the world is really flat and it’s not the book which is wrong but modern science since a book from god can never be wrong.

[Reply]
Ravi

They unnerve Modi, because they are not simple gifts

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:06 am
Yeah. You are right. They are not gifts at all. They are strong symbols of Arab conquest of India. This Indian Muslim wouldn’t be existing if the Arab skull cap did not land in India over the dead bodies of his forefathers.

[Reply]
Ag

Modi can be rightly worried that the gifts are somehow carrying a payload of terror – maybe Arsenic or something else. Why take a chance? How many Muslims would cheer on if Modi is killed? How many Muslims have actually done this sort of a thing?

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 12:09 am
Hahaha..a politician in Afghanistan was killed by an Islamic turban bomb. They didn’t check the assassin turban because it’s seen as rude to do that. The lesson learnt is better to be rude than be killed by fanatics.

[Reply]
Anonymous

I am unable to understand as why Mr. Haq has brought BJP in his blog. If he has a complaint concerning Mr. Modi, he could ask him straight away. Bringing BJP in is in no Cultured..

[Reply]
Ramesh Talwani

ALLTHOSE WHO WEAR THOSE HEAD GEAR OR CARRY THOSE SCARFS LIKE LALU OR PASWANAND DIGGI ,CAN THEY BE CALLED MUSLIM LOVERS?
THESE THINGS ARE NOT IMPORTANT ACCEPT FOR OUR PAID MEDIA.
THE IMPORTANT IS TO ADMINISTER WITHOUT BIASES.
MMSINGH SAYS MINORITIES ( MUSLIMS) HAVE FIRST RIGHT TO NATIONAL ASSETS. IS HE MAJORITY HATER?
CONGRESS MAKE ALL EFFORTS TO SHOW THAT THEY BELIEVE IN APPEASEMENT OF MUSLIMS.
HAS THIS HELPED?
CONGRESS TILL DATE COULDNOT PRODUCE AN HONEST ADMINISTRATOR EXCEPT SHASTRI JI.
BY DISCARDING SHAH BANU JUDGEMENT WHAT DID CONGRESS UNDER RAJIV PROVED.
DOES IT PROVE CONGRESS IS WELL WISHER OF MUSLIMS?
I REQUEST ZIA HAQ TO PLEASE ANSWER.

[Reply]
RajX

The premise of this article is ridiculous. Why would a nonmuslim indian accept an Arab religious skull cap? If Muslims follow some Indian customs there is a logic behind it since Indian Muslims are Indian and most of them are of Indian stock. The same doesn’t hold the other way around. The skull cap is a symbol of an Arab religion. No nonmuslim would wear it. Zia as usual “forgot” to mention some inconvenient facts. The fact that Modi did accept a shawl from the same person who offered him a skull cap. So it’s not the the religion of the person in question but the religious symbolism of the gift being offered which resulted in it’s rejection. If you want to attack Modi, there are many factual ways to do it. Attack him for not doing enough to stop the violence against Muslims during the godhra riots. But this is a silly and frivolous attack not based on substance. It’s much like most articles which Zia has been writing. No substance but I still like to read the responses. They are more interesting than the article.

[Reply]
RajX

Offering a ganapati to an Indian Muslim is ok. An Indian Muslim is Indian and so is the ganapati. But a skull cap is a Arab religious symbol. We can bow to a Indian Muslim but not to Arab symbolism.

[Reply]
RajX

Good points. Arabization has taken a severe toll on some sections of indian Muslims turning them into foreigners in their own land. This is going to have unfortunate ugly consequences in the long run. People like Zia seem to be encouraging this process of alienating Indian Muslims from India and Indian culture.

[Reply]
RajX

I have heard similar stories especially from people in the gulf countries. They even offer promotions if you are willing to convert and join their Arab club. It’s sickening how these people treat a spiritual thing like religion. But this sort of unhealthy attitude is common among abrahamic religions. All from the same gutter.

[Reply]
RajX

You mean to say that be blind to the fact that the skull cap is a Arab religious symbol? It’s not a baseball cap to be not classified as a religious symbol. Silly.

[Reply]
RajX

So any nonmuslim who refuses a Arab religious symbol like a skull cap is antimuslim? So how would you call a religious group which ended up partitioning India by trotting out a two nation theory? Traitors maybe. Are you one?

[Reply]
http://twitter.com/sureshb65 shanmugham balaji

HOW CAN HE EVEN DREAM OF BECOMING PM

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
I am surprised why god made you human when you refuse to use your peanut size brain.

[Reply]
Anonymous

from when does “SKULL cap” became “milk of human kindness” ??

[Reply]
http://www.aksaxena.in A K SAXENA

Modi should have accepted the skull cap and applied a” tilak” on the forehead of the Muslim friend.
A K SAXENA (A retired civil servant)

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
That’s a great solution…This will shut up fanatics like ZIA.

[Reply]
shallabh khera

Bhai jo sarkaar pichle 60 saaal se hinduon ko muslim topi pehnaa ke loot rahee hai lagtaa hai hindustan times ko vo pyaari hai….
Jo bandaa kaam kar rahaa hai vo nahin….
Can Mr Moulvi have a tilak and go to mosque? Can Mullahs go to temples everyday like we visit Ajmer sharif…..
He has his personal beliefs.. Now who is mixing religion with politics and development….. Selective mention and omission is dangerous..

Jai Hind
Jai Bharat

[Reply]
Crimin4l_ds Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:23 pm
Mr. Shallabh for your kind info, In our maharashtra 2nd ganapati among ashtvinayka, chintamani of theur, I know many muslims who go to that temple. Lalbagcha raja ganapati, bohra used to ask favors from this ganapati. Muslims and hindus celebrate ganapati festival. I know a prominent ganapti mandal whose president was muslim and he was so popular among them that he was president till his death.

Ajmer shariff is dargah

[Reply]
shallabh khera

Swami Vivekananda, Sawarkar were good leaders and Narendra Modi follows them,

Hitler may have been the follower of Pegumbar and Ghori, Ghazni not Narendra Modi..

[Reply]
Sanjeev Pandey

to start with ..even the tital of your artcal is flawed..he never was unnerved and confidently and politely turned them down..i dont know if u went into modi’s head to see if he was unnerved but going by visuals it was sothing elses..now your artical is nothing but a weak attempt again in the endless compaigns agains modi to judge each and every move of his to find fault..but i pity u ..u faild miserably..modi comes out as a confident ,strong,non posturing,straight forward leader who wont wear a cap to appease someone or wear a cross to appease other..he is what he is..

[Reply]
Anonymous

I think all hindus should draw picture of Mohammad as he has been described as Kalki by Zakir Naik and put regular Teeka on his picture.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
zakir naik is right description of kalki bhagwan matches totally with prophet mohammed.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
So are you OK with hindus putting Teeka on Mohammad’s picture because he is Kalki first and Mohammad later.
Mohammad to me should be called Hindu Saint.

[Reply]
Srinitrs

If the muslim person under question had come in hindu outfit and offered islamic dress, then what Zia says is meanigfull. As long as secularism is not practised by islamists the same they can not expect.

[Reply]
Jaffer

Ridiculous Article and inference ! When Zakir Naik preaches that accepting prasad is against the tenets of Islam and advises muslims not to do so. What is wrong with a Non Muslim not accepting a skull cap. I am a muslim and I dont approve of Modi but this article is ridiculous. Provides more ammunition for Non Muslims to thrash the author …..

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
when u are ruler u should accept prasad.in muslim palaces ,all indian festavils were celeberated.nawab wajid ali shah use to become sree krisha,it is he who started ramlia and popularize lord ram in rular areas.

[Reply]
Dr Mishra Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
Jaffer, nice sentiment by a muslim- If Zakir Naik says do not accept prasad, then Modi has every right to refuse the skull cap. But I think, Jaffer, that we need to ascribe to a higher plane than that- one of harmony, love and co-existence.
Z Naik is a bit of an idiot, what with his disgusting views on apostacy etc. But I expect higher standards from my leaders. Double digit growth is one thing but building bridges is a long term investment worth quadruple digits. I, an Indian, a hindu, am deeply disappointed that Modi did not wear the cap.

If Gujrati muslims had taken such a big step and come forward in such large numbers on the fast, then he should have reciprocated. The souls of 59 passengers and Ehsaan Jaffrey would have rested in peace.

[Reply]
Dr Mishra Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
welcome to blog Mr Jaffer, it needs fresh voices. Hope to see you here more often

[Reply]
engrich

aarti and wearing cap is different.modi is king ,he represents whole society.when u become king u should represent everybody.
nawab wajid ali shah of lucknow started ramlila.all hindu festivals were celeberated in muslim palaces during muslim rule with same fervor.regarding hamid ansari he is selected not elected.

[Reply]
engrich

ILawyer’s report spells trouble for CM Narendra Modi
in what may spell trouble for Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi and some top state officials, a confidential report by a Supreme Court-appointed lawyer has found no “clinching evidence” to dispute the presence of suspended Gujarat Police officer Sanjiv Bhatt at a meeting called by Modi on the night of February 27, 2002.
The report has recently been submitted to the Special Investigation Team by Supreme Court-appointed amicus curiae (friend of the court) Raju Ramachandran, in a Gujarat riots case.
Bhatt had in an affidavit in the Supreme Court in April stated that he was present at the meeting that night and witnessed Modi telling the police to be indifferent to rioters attacking Muslims during the mayhem that followed the Godhra train burning carnage.
The state government had rejected Bhatt’s statement, saying he was not present at Modi’s residence on that occasion. Ramachandran is understood to have stated in his report that the fate of the case against all those, including Modi, can be decided only after all witnesses, including Bhatt, are cross-examined.

Zakia is the widow of former Congress MP Ehsaan Jafri, who was burnt alive with 68 others at the Gulberg Housing Society in Ahmedabad a day after the meeting at Modi’s residence.

Ramchandran’s report says Bhatt and all other officers present at the controversial meeting should be cross-examined by the trial court.

If the court accepts Bhatt’s version of what Modi said at the meeting, all those named in Zakia Jafri’s complaint, including the CM, may have to face trial for criminal offences.

Bhatt was a senior officer with the state police’s intelligence wing and as the intelligence chief did not attend the meeting, his statement draws credibility from the fact that such an important meeting could not have taken place without keeping this wing out, the report is learnt to have observed.

Ramachandran is also learnt to have rejected the state government’s argument that Bhatt has levelled wild allegations against Modi and other senior officials because he is a disgruntled officer.

On why Bhatt chose to speak out nine years after the riots, the amicus curiae is understood to have accepted his view that being a serving officer, he could have spoken out either before a commission or an inquiry.

Ramachandran declined to comment on his findings. “I neither confirm nor deny your information,” he told HT. Gujarat government spokesperson Jai Narayan Vyas too refused to comment on the findings

[Reply]
Dr Mishra

appreciate yr comments guest, my sentiments posted above. Pl come under your real name- this blog needs fresh voices

[Reply]
RajX

I doubt if Hindus have offered Arab skull caps to Modi. Even if some guy dis, he will probably refuse it.

[Reply]
RajX

Your bigotry is always on display. His bigotry shows up only once in a while.

[Reply]
RajX

Oh ok. Now you have circumcise yourself to show ur respect to Muslims. Hahaha..silly season.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Ansaris are arjal low caste hindu converts.

[Reply]
Crimnin4l_Ds Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
may be. so may be in past they were denied rights of being human so they converted. It is universal truth why Mr. Babasaheb Ambedkar converted to Buddhism and he and his followers vowed to never accept hindu gods as their deities.

Everybody knows what was Brahman and others behavior with dalits and low caste. so they converted to other religions who gave them honor, where they were not identified by their birth but by their deeds.

[Reply]
Anonymous

India needs people like you who call spade a spade.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Sure…and what will happen to muslims after that. Just think before you puke.

[Reply]
engrich

when u are king u have to treat ur praja equally.take care of their sentiments.what is wrong in eating prasad.if it makes other happy.idont think it is prohibited anywhere.as a common man i can live as i want.as a ruler i should live as our subject want.

[Reply]
RajX

Are you saying that one adult woman marrying five brothers in a mythalogical story is worser than an old Arab man who is supposedly a “prophet” “thighing” a six year old child until she is 9 and marrying her in ” real life”?

[Reply]
RajX

The only “prophet” who killed is an Arab called Mohamad. It’s the effect of arabization which makes you bow to such a man. Can’t blame you, the dice was cast centuries ago to turn you into what u have become today. An arabized brainwashed sc*m who can’t tell the difference between his head and his behind.

[Reply]
RajX

Sure. Gandhi, Nehru and sardar Patel are secret Muslims. Brainwashed arabized sc*m. The British need to be thanked for throwing Islamist invaders from Persia and Arabia out of India. Only hold outs like you are left now. Pathetic.

[Reply]
RajX

Why would a leader of a party which has a clearly defined Hindu nationalistic ideology accept a Arab skull cap when it’s well known that Arabs and Persians who wear that skull cap invaded and brutalized this country for centuries? Take you head out of your behind and use ur mind a bit.

[Reply]
RajX

Justice is not just delayed but always denied to many Indians of other religions too. Why would you put one group of Indians above others? Did the gujrat riots happen before the religious cleansing, murder and rape of Kashmiri Hindu pandits but islamists? Have the pandits got justice ? You are just a bigot disguising ur with communal concerns with big words like “justice” which are not communal but universal.

[Reply]
RajX

Hahaha….yeah. Then he should marry three woman and live with all of them.hahaha

[Reply]
RajX

In the same way, should Modi accept an Arab skull cap if it’s nicely given? Respect is a two way street. Hypocrite.

[Reply]
RajX

I just noticed that people from a certain community as Mr.Kutty who should be giving an answer to you have avoided this post. That tells a lot about what’s happening in some parts of that community.

[Reply]
RajX

You will be happy if he did.

[Reply]
RajX

What next from Zia? Will it be something on these lines

“Sonia Gandhi is not wearing a full body niqab when talking to Muslim ministers. That’s showing disrespect to Islam and proves that she hates Muslims”.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. I think our educational institutions have utterly failed when they have produced Indians like Zia trying to throw mud at people using the shield of religion. Did he go to some institution where their values are not aligned with mainstream Indian thoughts? Or did he become like this later in life? Pakistan is bearing the brunt of the failure of their educational system which taught fanatical hatred and made up history. We have to learn lessons from their failure.

[Reply]
http://twitter.com/DelhiBug Ranita Ray

Answer is very simple, how many muslim leaders or maulvis would wear a hindu tilak on the forehead and a saffron pagri given by a Hindu spiritual leader??

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Ranita

At the face of it, your point is a very good one.

However, once one has given it a bit more thought then the comparison fails to be an exact one.

Let me take the two symbols you mention one by one.

1. Tilak – is a clearly Hindu Religious symbol and only those who belong to that religion should wear it. Just to elaborate, there are Hindus who wear a Tilak comprising of THREE horizontal lines, and yet others would wear THREE Vertical lines. The sect that wears the horizontal tilak will NEVER wear the vertical one and vice a versa. These people belong to the same religion. Therefore, to expect that a Muslim would wear a tilak is simply wrong. However, we are talking about India, where nothing is simple, a Muslim playing the role of Ram in Ramlila, and Dilip Kumar in Ram aur Shyam, did wear tilaks and even sang one of the most beautiful bhajans.

2. Saffron Pagri – Muslims in India as well as Pakistan do wear Pagri. The issue probably is with the Saffron Colour. I would’nt wear one.

My view is that the offer as well as the rejection had a political element in it and it was meant as a trap and Modi was right to refuse. Not on relgious grounds but on entrapment grounds.

BTW the RSS Sarsangchalak Deoras did accept muslim scarfs, and topis and was seen wearing them.

[Reply]
Crimin4l_ds

Modi didnt accept skull cap and it is his choice, Nothing wrong with that. And that funny guy who presented cap to him, no one came forward for modi and so this cartoon guy was called.
And may be this whole thing is triggered by modi. Neta’s will do anything for vote.
Moon, if mutton biryani is prepared with so much hard work, will Mr. pandey or tripathi or pathak will accept it? And if there are meat dishes in pot luck, it is choice to be made, some people will have meat some would not, why such a hue and cry. And muslims are much modest than brahmins and jains and their diet is too strict. Every body bring something for potluck so if a muslim guy don’t have one or two dishes, what is wrong with that. There is a dish you dont like and you dont eat it. simple as that. My bro always likes seafood but never go near river fish, we never complain.

[Reply]
Crimin4l_ds

This is called tolerance. That publicity hungry fool gave cap and modi chose not to wear it which was his decision. Everyone has a right to make one but so called secular media made it such a big issue. Why hindu should wear muslim cap. And Muslims got dragged in this mess when they had nothing to with it. it was pure politics.

At least modi is true with his principles.

[Reply]
Crimin4l_ds

Tell me moon in your pot luck do brahmans have meat? then why you separate muslims.
If you cook onion pakoda with hard work will jain brothers have it in pot luck? Brahman does not eat meat and muslim does not eat non halal meat. simple as that.

When in our group even if there is one veggie we dont order anything nonveg, when we want to smoke we ask nearby people if we could? these are simple manners. Tolerance is the key for harmony.

[Reply]
Crimin4l_ds

And if when jain bro says no to your onoin pakoda or brahmin says no to your cake because it MAY have an egg in it or a meat dish, what do you call them, I wonder…..

You speak of Hanumanjika prasad and I never accept dargah ki niyaj when I am a muslim. I dont go to dargah. simple as that. I just dont like that atmospheare where they have turned everything in money. Many muslims dont do that.

Modi was presented a cap by a fool, and modi chose not to wear it which is right and proves that he is not hypcrite like congress or samajwadi. But dont drag musilims in it when they dont have to do anything with it. The person was not an alim but a dargah mujawar and it is not an illuminati secret what type these mujawars are. They rarely have anything islamic in their life. They are just after money and this fool was for publicity. He could have presented a bouquet of flowers but the fool was a pawn and did what he was expected to do.

Muslims had nothing to do anything with it.

PATHAR KI MOORTOON MEIN SAMJHA HAY TOO KHUDA HAY
KHAK E WATAN KA MUJH KO HER ZARRA DEVTA HAY

aa Gairat ke parde ik baar phir uthaa dein
bichhado ko phir milaa de naqsh-e-dui mitaa de

suunii pa.di huwi hai muddat se dil kii bastii
aa ik nayaa shivaalaa is des me banaa de

duniyaa ke tiirathon se uuncha ho apanaa tiirath
daamaan-e-aasmaa se iska kalas mila de

shaktii bhii shaantii bhii bhakto ke giit me hai
dharatii ke baasiyo kii muktii priit me hai

[Reply]
engrich

Vande Mataram

vande matram is notorious anti-muslim song written by a hindu terrorist bankim chatterjee.
it shows anti-muslim sentiment.hence should not be sung on national functions.muslim/hindu leaders should be judhed on basis of their qualities of governance not on aarti or namaz.mayawati performed better than modi.fruits of developement have reached to the poors.in gujrat flow of money was hermetically sealed,flowing in certain section,hence poverty has increased,
show of religion must be banned on public functions.

[Reply]
Ravi

To stoop to conquer requires an intelligent man.

[Reply]
engrich

suicide bomber has attacked a bus carrying foreign troops in the Afghan capital Kabul killing 13 US soldiers

Thousands of Muslims in Mali’s capital, Bamako, hold a special prayer service for killed ex-Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi

[Reply]
engrich

rss is voilent gang of anti-muslim homosexuals.savarkar was british spy coward and homosexual as well.modi accepts huge bribes on fake encounters not partly gifts.he is on his way to tihar.yedurappa is alone.

[Reply]
engrich

Farrakhan: Gadhafi fought U.S., NATO Terrorists With Honor

see this on u tube quite interesting

[Reply]
engrich

ghaddafi vision of pristine water and abondned food for libya was the worlds most wonderous irrigation project in the history of mankind.forty years of this achievment was destroyed by us-nato bombing of depleted uranium nuclear bombing of water reservoirs poisoning the water is one of the most inhuman crime of our age

[Reply]
engrich

Anna Hazare’s Gandhian stunts to fool innocent Indians
Neither the anti-corruption crusader, Anna Hazare, nor his opponents in the govt. are above corruption. Because corruption (meaning money corruption).flows from the top. It is the ruling upper castes, as the leaders of society, who taught us corruption. And that is how the whole society is today buried in corruption. There is not a single wing of the society which is free from corruption.

Hazare defends the corrupt: If the current “Khatri Sick” PM or future PMs are free from corruption, why are they afraid of including the office of the PM in LokPal Bill?

If Anna Hazare is lily white why did he defend Narendra Modi, the killer, and also the country’s most corrupt CM of Karnataka? Anna Hazare is said to be a Gandhian-but it is the Muslims, Christians and Sikhs who became victims of Gandhi and his Gandhism

Dr. Ambedkar, the Father of India, called Gandhi a top class fraud in his writing and speeches.
The whole excercise on Lokpal Bill is a waste of time. The frauds on both sides are united while publicly quarreling. But they are secretly trying to take the country on a joy ride, and thereby fool all of us. This is what is happening in the current Anna Hazare’s Gandhian drama

[Reply]
engrich

Chris Busby – Enriched uranium weapon new battlefield horror (25-Oct-11)(NWO GLOBAL WARS series)

must see ,shan and ravi bhai

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
the above is on you tube

[Reply]
Ravi

Here are some other facts.

1. For thousands of years in the Hindu Society Education was only available to Brahmins. However, some notable exceptions exist, but by and large this is true.

2. Aryans are aliens to the Indian sub-continent where they have for 3 millennia or more, marginalised the indigenous tribes and other sections of the population. So much so that the History of Northern India is synonymous with the History of Aryans.

3. Access to education and other such privileges are still very much governed by one’s caste. Lower the caste more difficult it is for an individual to gain access to education. Significant improvement has taken place over the last 200 years or so mainly due to the policies of the Brits – though not exclusivly -, and none of it due to any change of heart among the conservative Hindu society. For an example of progressive Hindus, see below.

4. The function of reservations is to address inherent in-equalities that exist in our society. We have reservations for a whole variety of criteria. There are reservations to address in-equalities due to religious disadvantages, regional disadvantages, even for children whose fathers served in the forces, etc etc.

5. Opposition to reservation is almost always led by middle class, Hindu upper castes because the change in status quo hurts them the most.

6. To maintain caste based hierarchies of privileges is the main agenda of Hinduatva. It wants to re-establish the rigid caste system and denigrate minorities to a permanent second class citizenship.

7. Whilst I believe the current reservation system can be improved upon, even over-hauled, it remains necessary to create even tiny semblance of equality in our society.

—————————————————–

Reservations in favour of Backward Classes (BCs) were introduced long before independence in a large area, comprising the Presidency areas and the Princely states south of the Vindhyas. Chatrapati Sahuji Maharaj, Maharaja of Kolhapur in Maharashtra introduced reservation in favour of non-Brahmin and backward classes as early as 1902. He provided free education to everyone and opened several hostels in Kolhapur to make it easier for everyone to receive the education. He also made sure everyone got suitable employment no matter what social class they belonged. He also appealed for a class-free India and the abolition of untouchability. The notification of 1902 created 50% reservation in services for backward classes/communities in the State of Kolhapur. This is the first official instance (Government Order) providing for reservation for depressed classes in India.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Aryan theory is a theory cooked up by colonialists to rule over India since they can claim that Indians are not indigenous to the land so they don’t have any claims over it and thus justifying their colonization. It’s sad that “liberal Hindu” ravi is parroting theories cooked up by Europeans to justify their colonization of India. The arabized also use the same strategy to attack dharmic religions claiming parity for the Arab religion with dharmic ones in terms of being indegenous.

Regarding reservation, it should have always been what it was intended to be for. To help people who are materially “backward”. People have injected caste into it for harvesting votes and now they want to inject religion into. That’s intellectually backward, immoral and disgusting!

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:33 am
RajX

Is that so.

I expected this rubbish theory would surface and I thank you to bringing it up.

I am sorry to say that “Hindu Fundo RajX” is completely wrong. The Aryan migration theory is backed by tons of evidence of the kind that professional Historians accept as evidence.

I could give you names of INDIAN Historians who – on their honour – would back the Aryan migration theory, but then I am afraid you will only dismiss them as JNU type.

You would only be convinced if the RSS backed the Aryan Migration theory, but they are not likely to do that, are they.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:58 am
“Hindu liberal” ravi, why push a debunked racist and colonialist theory here in this forum? What’s your agenda “Hindu liberal”? By the way, you are not very different from RSS. Both of you pea brained nitwits believe in the colonialist and racist Aryan theory. So you finally found a soul mate. A weak “Hindu liberal” has found his soulmate in a communal organization. Fantastic. You guys should do a Aryan honeymoon. Nitwit. Repeating the talking points of illiberal Islamist NUTTERS doesn’t make you a liberal. It just makes you a pea brained and brainwashed nitwit.

Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 10:11 am
This is little more than a puff of hot air emnating from a guy who seems to have lost total control over himslef.

RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Pea brained self proclaimed “Hindu liberal” ravi has no answers. Only ad hominems.. Frothing in the mouth against Indians, Indian culture and tradition is not not going to help your Islamist cause. Sorry little pea brain. Your racist and colonialist theories stink.

RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:09 am
“Hindu liberal” ravi, here is some info for ur pea brain about the debunking the colonialist Aryan theory which a weak and illiberal minded “Hindu liberal” like you are spouting.
friendsofsouthasia.org/textbook/ComingOfAryans.html

Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:35 am
RajX

Equipped with two things:

1. My Pea Brain

2. The link you provided.

This is what I discovered in 5 minutes.

______

1. Isn’t it true that the Aryans Invasion Theory has been disproved? There is no evidence of invasions taking place, and the whole theory is based on flaky linguistic theories.

The Aryan Invasion Theory has many variants. The Aryan Invasion Theory advocating a purely racial “invasion” proposed by Max Mueller has been questioned by many, including the noted historian, Romila Thapar, in the 1960s. The contemporary theory of Aryan origin corroborates data and evidences from over two dozen different fields of study and demonstrate a pattern of cultural, social and linguistic migration/domination/invasion of people speaking the Indo-European languages from Central Asia into India. This theory about the Aryan origin, which is currently the most authoritative theory among historians, does not state that the Aryans were an indigenous people. For details see: “The Aryan Question Revisited”, by Romila Thapar at http://members.tripod.com/ascjnu/aryan.html .

The Hindutva groups are misleading the masses by criticizing Max Mueller’s Aryan Invasion Theory (which is already discredited) and cleverly, falsely and deviously claiming that Michael Witzel and others (including Romila Thapar) are supporting Max Mueller’s theory. In fact, under the cover of criticizing Max Mueller, the self -styled Hindutva historians [most of whom are engineers and businessmen] are promoting a theory that Aryans did not migrate from Central Asia but were the original inhabitants of India. This theory has been propped up as a propaganda item on numerous websites and is discussed as a community specific truth within the Hindutva circles. It holds no currency within established historical scholarship.

YOUR BRAIN IS CLEARLY SMALLER THAN A PEA

RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Really? Did you cry when Osama died? My condolences. Osama is now fish food. so why call yourself “liberal Hindu” ravi when you cry over the death of an Islamist? Is deceit allowed in Islam especially when it’s practiced against the kufirs?

RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
So your pea brain has pea sized memory too? You claimed that RSS did not believe in Aryan theory. They do. Just like you. Two of a kind. A anti Hindu indian nutter and a power hungry nutter both embrace each other. Now you can run around trees, dance and sing a song.

Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
He is no hindu or sikh liberal. He is a fundoo muslim who cried on death of Osama.

Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 1:51 am
Here again terrorist speaks with forked tongue..He claims to be a sikh (Aryan)… AIT has been discredited but terrorists like Ravi still stick to it.

Warrior and Trader class always got education and also Shudras..this is the reason Ramayana & Mahabharata was written by Shudras..

This propaganda by terrorists is not going to work anymore. Only muslims are alien to this land as they have refused to assimilate themselves with India unlike others.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:10 am
1. There is no such thing as Aryan Invasion/Migration. Indeed, either we are ALL Aryans (muslims included) or none of us are Aryans.
2. Access to education is actually governed by financial and social considerations, whether a family can afford to send their children school or not is the biggest consideration, which is why schemes like mid day meal are a big success.
3. Function of reservation is to consolidate votes. If the reservation was intended to address inequities in the society, it would have addressed the financial and social backwardness issues, instead, reservation is only done on the basis of caste.
4. Reservation does indeed hurt the middle class, because the middle class needs jobs. Reservation, which is anti-merit, takes away jobs just because the person is of the wrong caste. Thus, far from addressing social inequities, reservation actually discriminates against the middle class. Hardly the hallmark of a democracy.

[Reply]
Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Trapdaar

You are entitled to your opinions.

I hope you would accept the simple fact that I disagree with you on the main points.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:01 am
A nutter with manners?? Hahaha…

Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
rajX,
ravi has on record justified actions of osama..Total terrorist material.

RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
He is very cunning but still pea brained.
anil

Reservation coupled with Minority Protection Bill is the volatile combination for experimentation on India as merit is relegated to the back seat. It is designed to push it through its transient phase fof tectonic shift.

After successful implementation of above civilised world can say good buy to India as it will expedite its fall to meet the eventuality, matching Mayan civilisation.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 2:01 am
This is like taking India back to 1930s muslim league politics. The pro-Jinnah element that were dormant till date have started singing same tune. I actually hold Advani responsible to rehabilitating terrorist Jinnah in Indian mind. He was the most disgusting SOB who was directly responsible for genocide of 1 million hindus-sikhs-muslims.

The fake sikhs never worry about sikh right but jump on every opportunity to defend muslims who divided India because they demanded that british give then rein of power so that Islamic rule can continue.

I am amazed to see muslim hypocrisy.,.They divided India and now are claiming to be victims. It is time this hypocrisy is cut short.

If pakistan wants kashmir, it should take 160 million Indian muslims along with fake sikhs. If it can claim muslim majority land, it should also claim muslim people.

[Reply]
Mohammed

Muslims never ruled 800 yrs, they ruled parts of India, on an average half of this India for about 500 yrs. Do you say whole muslims have to suffer for the misdeeds of one Syed A Khan? Anyway, if India is a secular and democratic nation run under the present constitution, it has to adopt affirmative action. Otherwise, how would you remove the present systematic social oppresion, suppresion or discrimination? Are you happy with the present morally corrupt society? How would India aspire to become superpower keeping 1/5th of population slave? Under Muslim rule, hindus (brahmins) fluorished, but those who were half hindu (lower class) embraced islam for social dignity. But as the power remained with brahmins, these new muslims were kept oppressed till today.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
The hallmarks of an arabized person is that he parrots the talking points of the people who converted him even though he knows it’s all bullcr*p. He does it because he needs to justify his immoral action of sleeping with Islamist invaders and thus committing treachery on his own society just to curry favors with the invaders turned rulers. It’s intellectual jujitsu but it only fools the arabized themselves and no body else who knowns history. How predictable your ilk is….

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
rajx brhmns came from central india demolished indus valley civilization then stayed on bank of ganga.sanskrit is not indian language.vedas were not written in india.vedas are full of cows and horses whichare not indians.non brhmns shudras and women are not allowed to touch this holy scripture.

ban on cow slaughter was imposed by budhdhists.brhmns were cow eaters during their time cow almost reached to the point of extinction.

as per their holy scripture only white is divine people of other colours are jokers like lord krishna.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
central india

pls read central asia

Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:20 am
It is not the fault of Brahmins that Muslims send their sons to Madrassas instead of schools. How are you going to get ahead in today’s world if only thing you study is the religious books? It is well known that Khans rule the Bollywood, and then we have people like Salman Rushdie, MF Hussain, APJ Kalam etc. It is clear that those muslims who wanted to improve their lives have not been prevented from doing so… The allegations of systematic social oppression are completely false and motivated.

1/5 of the population is free and always been free. It is their choice if they want to wallow in the slums.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
traapdar muslims are sending their sons to madarssa because they are cheap.now 40%of students of madarssa are hindus.

muslims have made more than 1001 innovative inventions.those students came from madarssa.

europe is against our ancient education system as it is impossible to mentally enslave their student.base of this education system is high moral value.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
OK..Let us accept your opportunistic lie that muslims ruled for 500 years..was this not enough for muslims to prosper?

The affirmative action as per constitution is only meant for groups victim of caste system. If muslims want reservation they should abandon Islam as it has not fulfilled their aspiration and rejoin hindu faith as SCs and OBCs. No one is stopping you.

I think muslims are number one in all crimes especially underworld so you should ask yourself that why has Islam created criminals out of normal human beings?

India can never be superpower till people including muslims and especially muslims breed like rabbits. India is one of the few nations where polio exists because muslims in india consider polio vaccine as conspiracy of kafirs to make muslims impotent.

Bheek maangne se koi ameer nahi hua mian..Mehnat karo..Bheek maangni hai to muslim countries jaao, jahan tumhare hum-quom ayyashi farma rahein hein.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
rajeev u punjabis are thieves liars and highly immoral people.
muslims are hard worker evrycityof northern india is known with muslim handicraft.

aaj kal pagalpane ka daura zor se pada hai.ya kisi mussalman ne teri ghaand maree hai.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
DO you mean 60% of pakistan is thief?

The muslims are most immoral people because they can sell their ammies for some money.

Mohammed Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
500 yrs was not enough. Because 3000 yrs were proved to be still not enough for Brahmins (aryans) in India. Poor muslims are also the victims of traditional caste system, so they deserve affirmative action, not rich muslims. Abolish Hajj subsidy. Sachar report found that affirmative action indeed benifitted SCs, STs. Your criminal statistics are not true, everywhere you will find hindus are the rapist, of course hindus are some sort of sophisticated criminals. Definitely islam has alleviated human sufferings. Many dreaded criminals became honest after embracing islam. Your polio theory is a lie. True, muslim’s fertility rate is higher, but this is a matter of concern among the illiterate poor muslims. That’s why we need to educate them. Remember only 3% muslim children goes to madrassas, because of poor.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
OK..Let us accept your opportunistic lie that muslims ruled for 500 years..was this not enough for muslims to prosper?

The affirmative action as per constitution is only meant for groups victim of caste system. If muslims want reservation they should abandon Islam as it has not fulfilled their aspiration and rejoin hindu faith as SCs and OBCs. No one is stopping you.

I think muslims are number one in all crimes especially underworld so you should ask yourself that why has Islam created criminals out of normal human beings?

India can never be superpower till people including muslims and especially muslims breed like rabbits. India is one of the few nations where polio exists because muslims in india consider polio vaccine as conspiracy of kafirs to make muslims impotent.

Bheek maangne se koi ameer nahi hua mian..Mehnat karo..Bheek maangni hai to muslim countries jaao, jahan tumhare hum-quom ayyashi farma rahein hein.

[Reply]
RajX

About eighty percent of this article justifies reservations for the former rulers of Islamic India and about ten percent of it says that the former Islamic rulers of India should not take the reservation. About ten percent of it is about bashing the people of India who did not succumb to arabization. Something tells me that Zia would have turned out to be a better person if he had stuck to his childhood principle that he wouldn’t read the Koran because it did not have any colorful pictures. He says

“There is, in our Constitution, a clear promise for reservations on the basis of “backwardness”.”

Backwardness of mind can’t be cured by reservation nor can it be used to extort undeserved special benefits to a particular religious community who were the former rulers of India. If “material backwardness” is the criteria for reservation, then I am all for it. Then we don’t need a religious or caste based reservation. I would have had more respect for Zia if he had made that case since that would cover all materially backward people including Muslims without injecting religious poison into reservation just like Zia is trying to do here but to who’s benefit I wonder….

[Reply]
RajX

Very good points but I suspect that it would fall on deaf ears or at least on people who are acting deaf.

[Reply]
Anonymous

2/3rd of sub-continental muslims are enjoying 100% reservation..Is that not enough? I fail to understand shamelessness of Indian muslims? They were given choice between secular India and theocratic pakistan. If they wanted reservation, they should have moved to pakistan.

The fake sikhs can invent history to suit their interest but it is not going to get thru..If muslims try to push their luck, they are in for huge disaster.

[Reply]
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WJFSIJXTVCRASYXSML7HIMYP5E nice guy

There should be no reservations for anyone… rules should be the same for everyone, the over glorified, yuppie youth of today are too dazed with gizmos and fast cars to form an opinion leave alone cast their vote, there is a urgent need to change the demographics of political parties being, run by a consortium of landgrabbers, criminals, the scum of the universe, all fundamentalist parties based on religion creed or caste need to be banned or else well all have to immigrate to other places..!

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Nice guy, nice points.

[Reply]
Rakesh katyal

Zia you are asking for reservation without appearing to be doing so. Any reservation based on communal lines will have disastrous consequences. Infact it is only politics which is keeping reservation for Dalits. We should have got over them by now. Like your community excels in keeping its own people backward smilarly well to do Dalits have grabbed the complete benefits of reservations for themselves and are keeping them alive for own benefits. You have to learn to work hard and get your due by sheer hard work. India gives a fair chance to everyone.

[Reply]
Ranjitbajwa123

I want to add one very important observation about Muslims of the world that their loyalty to the Islam comes first and than to their respective countries AND this mindset will never let them grow in any pluralistic society. Belief that islam is a religion of brotherhood is not true if this would been true than all islamic countries should unite and create on great islamic nation. Fact of the matter is that no two islamic nations are great friend of each other. We should follow our religion but keep nation above any other thing , even above one’s own family

[Reply]
Anonymous

London to become Londonistan .

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/item/50461-liberalism-fuels-radical-islamism.html?tmpl=component&print=1

[Reply]
Abu Ahmed

If all Indians really considered each other as co-citizens and the other as precious as oneself, there will be no injustice in society – and one justice is established in the society, all progress and development would follow in due course. Why should a single Indian be discriminated against on any pretext and why is there so much violence and aggressiveness in our society?

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Brother Abu, since you are against discrimination, I hope that you are also against Caste and religion based reservation which puts meritocracy in the trash bin and discriminates against people who really work hard in favor of people who do not perform as well.

[Reply]
RajX

Dude, you never stop. Do you? Give it a rest.

[Reply]
RajX

I think it’s better to reform misguided people than reward them with land for their utter idiocy. Anyways there is not enough land to give off to bigoted religious groups anymore. Anyways I believe that most progressive Muslims are an asset to the country unlike some bad apples like our Zia here.

[Reply]
RajX

Zia should ask himself this question. He says that he writes about “Muslim affairs” for HT. Fine. So why are very few Muslims coming here in this forum for defending his opinions? Are they ashamed of his opinions and don’t consider it mainstream or respect worthy? Take for instance this gem

“Well, there are those who have even denied the Holocaust ever took place.”

Why would any Muslim want to defend this kind of gutter level opinions from Zia which compares the people who think that Muslims are not particularly ill-treated in India with holocaust deniers???
By the way , holocaust deniers of the twenty first century are mostly Muslims led by dear leader from Iran. This is a result of arabization where Muslims who are not Arabs have absorbed the Arab hatred of Jews through their religious networking.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
the fraud of holocaust was fabricated to create isreal.if it really happened ,why
anyone who challeenge its validity is sent to 5 year jail.many german professors are languishing.

TRUTH SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF INVESTIGATION.

[Reply]
RajX

The weak minded will always find some one to blame. In India, they blame the Hindus and in the UK they will blame the white man. This is a victimhood industry and it’s very profitable for some people.

[Reply]
Anonymous

No wonder 65% of all bengalis have converted to Islam..

[Reply]
Anonymous

You seem to be cross between Camel and Donkey.

[Reply]
Anonymous

The hallmark of muslim societies all over the world especially in non-muslim country is that they depend on Khairaat and always play victim card.
The commonality between muslims living in non-muslim countries-
1. Khairaat dependent.
2. a sense of vicitimhood
3. Cry baby
4. hatred for host country
5. Immense love for fascist muslim countries.
6. No repect for non-muslims’
7. Demand total respect for Islam
8. use of violence
9. propaganda against jews
10. Spread lies like ‘Islam is religion of peace’ (actualy they mean ‘religion of piece’ as they always want to divide host country).
11. Demand secularism when it suits them and demand Sharia where they are in majority.

[Reply]
Abu Ahmed

Cricket club managers in Hyderabad complained that talented Muslim boys are being ignored for selection of Under-14 and Under 17 teams. They should know that this is not communal discrimination – there are sports agents these days who, in exchange of a fee, guarantee the inclusion of a talented player in any team. There are hundreds of job placement agencies whose task it is to find placements in exchange of fee or commission. So, finally, its all about money exchanging hands, right from a child being admitted in a school to his/her employment after education. Moneyed people can play the game of life, right from education, health, employment to investing in any business. Those who do not have the money, regardless of community, are left behind. And the Hindu society was never known to be an egalitarian one. Hence there is prevalence of discrimination against the weak, and therefore the need of discrimination for – if our country is a welfare state too, apart from being a practically casteist Hindu state.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Go around in muslim colleges and see representation of non-muslims in different teams.

You guys just whine.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
If you want to experience what real discrimination is like, live as a Hindu in any Islamic society of your choice. Islamic societies operate as cults and have internalized and institutionalized discrimination based on their religious bigotry which they are taught at a very young age. The people who beleive in the dharmic way of life did not. If they had, your name won’t be Abu Ahmed but some ram Singh or Bheem Singh. Arabization speaks through people like you. You have to understand that turning you against your own forefathers culture is a surefire way of keeping you within the imposed and foreign “faith”. You may be unaware of it since you are in the targeted bubble but millions are spent by a certain govt in the middle east in India just for this singular cause. You have to ask yourself what a foreign govt gets in return for funding madrases, mosques and propaganda against the dharmic way?

[Reply]
Abu Ahmed Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Thats a typical casteist way of dealing with issues. Racism, casteism, class differences are all there in the world – even the most primitive tribe in the jungles of Africa would consider itself the best people on earth – thats something inevitable. However, casteism is an article of faith and part of life Hinduism with the help of which since thousands of years people have been oppressed, killed, raped and pillaged in India. Arabs are racist obviously, but not Islam, for thats the first religion in the world to demolish many isms are liberate mankind from the yoke of priest-led worship and control over knowlede. Ideologically it sees no difference between peoples – for God says in the Quran that the best people are those who do good on earth and aware that God is watching them. Its your arrogance and hatred that you still hold on to casteism and other misplaced notions. Indian Muslims are not begging for reservations – it is the Sonias, the Mayawatis, the Phulmatis and the Bhagmatis who are after Muslim votes and are as usual trying to appease and then dump muslims after elections.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
Islam replaced priests with mullahs who are infinitely worser than any Hindu priest. Hindu priests never go after political power like the mullahs do. Regarding control over knowledge, the Arabs through Islam, invasion and occupation have claimed the inventions and discoveries of other societies as their own and called it”Islamic inventions”. Unfortunately the arabized in non Arab societies have become a tool for this kind of disgusting intellectual theft.

Talking about article of faith, cultism is an article of faith in Arab Islam. That’s the reason why Islam teaches you to see the world in two. One is a Muslim and the other is a kafir. Your forefathers Hinduism doesn’t teach you think in that bigoted way. You seem to have conveniently forgotten the murders, robbery, rape and slave owning commited by the “messenger of god” and his band of thugs. Arab society had some merit before islam. After mohamad and his islam, its all moral darkness for them. I can understand that you have to justify arabization and the Arab cult because not doing so would negate the whole life you have led so far. In Islam, there is no way out. Once you are in, you are in even if you want to leave. I pity your state.

Mohammed Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at rediffmail.com.
I’m afraid I wasn’t able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I’ve given up. Sorry it didn’t work out.

:
- Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)

— Enclosed is a copy of the message.

RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Hahaha..wahab..what is this about?

engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
ur hinduism is money minting bussines.we teach morality.hinduism cannot be called religion.as man is unequal at birth.it is more a system.

RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
By the way, would you prefer living as a Hindu in a Islamist cesspool like Pakistan? Maybe in your worst nightmare. Unfortunately in most Islamic society, bigotry is a way of life. Islam plays a part in this bigotry since the bigotry is justified by these islamist bigots by quoting from Mohamads Koran. It’s obviously not a very nice book if bigots of all strips find a lot of stuff in there to justify their actions.

engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
descrimination is base of hinduism.they descriminate everybody ,except their jaatiwalas,hence dont complain.keep ur hand in pocket,while dealing with them.

[Reply]
engrich

13%reservation should be given to high.muslims should have 15% as per numbers.70%to backwards and dalits.

[Reply]
Anonymous

You are spewing typical muslim propaganda…Divide hindus and enjoy at their cost. We can see thru your designs.

[Reply]
engrich

if u have particular point challenge.read argumentative indians.horses and cows are not indian animal.see ur epics.all kings ang holy people are white evil persons are black brown or blue.

[Reply]
RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Krishna is blue. Was he evil?

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
yes,as per epic had 1603 wives.had intimate relationship with his neighbours wife called radha.killed all his cousins and uncles on battlefield,because they were from lwer castes.
made castes on the basisw of birth.women and shedule castes were made outcaste.

because he was blue.not white.only white is divine and worth praising and honour.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Bush is white so is he more divine than Mohammad and your Allah?

engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
according to brhmnst yes

RajX Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Hahahaha…tejinder, Krishna is not a real person. He is a character in a mythology. I set a trap for you and you fell right into it. By the way, it looks like arabization not only distorts history of real world but it also distorts the mythical world of mythology. Funny man!
Mohammed

Well, Sachar report says affirmative action has benifitted greatly to SCs and STs. So why not to poor muslims? They don’t need Hajj subsidy. Sachar report found that only 3% muslim children goes to madrassas, Only poor muslims send their children, because it is completely free and but serves at least two purposes, a low paid job of priest/imam and the religious knowledge to keep the islamic tradition. Jiziya tax is a normal tax to an able non-muslim like a muslim pays the tax (Zakat). Only the names are different. Tax citizens pay everywhere. So don’t put some absurd arguments. Muslims are striving, but need some govt. support.

[Reply]
RajX

“I fail to understand why, if reservation is good for Dalits, is it bad for Muslims”

Who can argue with that? Is that your “winning” argument?

I also failed to understand why, if reservation is good for Muslims, is it bad for all nonmuslims. After all, a significant section of people from the muslim religious group divided the country on religious lines in 1947 resulting in that Islamist cesspool we now call Pakistan which has become a headache not only for India but for the whole world.

That’s my winning argument.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
reservation should be provided to weaker section whether muslim or non muslim.u cannot keep a part of bharat mata paralysed.everthless muslims are also indian.why so much hate.

in up w are 18.5%.our representation in patwari/lekhpal is only .6%same in other services.if we will be part of system we will have feeling of ownership with system ,which will enhance patriotism.

[Reply]
Anonymous

Egnrich says “because he was blue.not white.only white is divine and worth praising and honour.”

Does that mean WHITE Bush is more divine than BROWN Mohammad? Never knew muslims love Bush so much.

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
rajeev very stupid comparison.neverthless brhmnast were supporting britishers
against indian.bhasmasur is black.while durga is white.

in islam all colors are same.i talked about vedics.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:05 am
How is it stupid? You don’t find Quran stupid which is full of nonsense…Grow some brain..

Why you keep blaming brahmin and jews for your birth?

[Reply]
engrich Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 10:55 am
teri maa ka chhot pagal

RajX Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Tejinder, don’t hate Hindus and Jews. They are more civilized than the Arabs.

engrich Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 8:42 am
jews are our cousins brhmn are like brothers.i hate brhmnsm and zoinism.these are satanic anti-god thought hurting the people.
they want to built ram mandit in ayodhya.what it actually means.
it means .to ignite war between shaivite and vaishanvitesayodhya is headquarter of shaivaties.
historically shaivites killed vaishanvites in his areaa and vica versa.
these 2 satanic forces follow shaitan not bhagwan.i expose them.
see how zoinists ruined iraq afghanistan libya
and india before.
engrich

ravi bahi and shan,a good video,

Libya War Lies – Worse Than Iraq – Video – Thomas Mountain

[Reply]
engrich

the above shows ur lack of knowlledge.except pakistan all muslim countries of the world iincluding saudi arabia run on reason,not on religion.

[Reply]
engrich

Universities like AMU, Jamilia Milia, Hamdard have how many hindu students, and they are good universities

in good facaulties percentage of hindu student is more than 50%.

[Reply]
engrich

what is wrong u bhadrlok ,chang ur skin like lizard to fool inians.40 yrs u became marxist to fight islam.did nothing for indians.enjoyed urslf.u are 13%.take 13%share of national wealth.
u are looting india since arrival of britishers.u were their a$$ licker and bootpolishers.helped them to kill half the population of bengal bihar and orrisa in first 50 years of rule.
muslims always change.for u people it is the same ,vivekanand,tagore and blood thirsty durga from 150yrs.no election ,no change in surrounding is bringing any social or mental change.
poors of bangla desh is in far better position than poorsof wb

[Reply]
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UIM2IANIZE2LMGSWZDDN42JFEY overdriven

reservation must be cancelledd

[Reply]
http://twitter.com/rapidanalysts balakrishnan

Let all of us really join together to produce real food for eating and then living is meaningful, after all more and more mouths are added day by day whether one like it or not. No point in wasting time on dry issues, for that illogical discussions may cause some Sabarmati express problems but realistic approach will be real Narmada river of life of perennial sustenance.
Life is in body if there is food to eat. No use of dry talks and irrational philosophizing. Life is to be lived meaningfully. It is no use of talk and growth without real food items on plate please.
So politicians are warned that they should not play with lives of people of any community/ies for that will backfire very every one of them.

[Reply]
ashok taneja

if gb road sex is illegal than how sex sales go on.i cannot understand it. every body knows about gb road than why govt. did not close them

[Reply]

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