The unjust logic of people who defend terrorism



A few years ago, I heard Imran Khan speak at the HT Leadership Summit. He was part of a panel that was discussing Kashmir and when it was time for questions, the cricketer-turned-politician turned his attention to the subject of terrorism.

In response to queries from the audience about Pakistan-backed terrorism in the Kashmir Valley, Khan fell back on the oldest of clichés. “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter,” he said solemnly.

Later, he went on to make the point that if a man was prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice (i.e. give up his life) then this proved that the poor wretch had been made so miserable by the forces of oppression that he was willing to part with the one thing he had left.

At the time Imran spoke, Pakistan had not yet turned fully into the terror-ridden, failed society that it is today.

So, the great man was able to squat on the moral high ground and lecture us Indians about how the violence in Kashmir was merely a response to our oppression and our unwillingness to give the freedom fighters the independence they deserved.

I thought back to Imran and his justification (or explanation, at any rate) of terrorism when I saw the saga of the Boston bombings unfold on our TV screens.

Judging by what we know, the two Chechen brothers who were involved in that incident suffered no oppression. They lived largely contented lives in the United States and friends described the younger brother as successful and well adjusted.

It is true that the Chechens have a grouse against Russia–as they have demonstrated by resorting to innumerable acts of terror within Russia — but the United States is hardly their oppressor.

In fact, the Russian government has complained that the US has often seemed to be on the side of the Chechens. Nor could it be that the terror suspects felt alienated or oppressed because of religion.

Americans have a slightly racist view of Islam: they associate it with brown or black people. The Chechen brothers were white and their religion never seems to have become an issue.

Certainly, there is no evidence that they were discriminated against because they were Muslims. And yet, if investigators are to be believed, these men tried to kill innocent women and children at the Boston marathon.

What led them to commit this act of terror? If they were indeed, in Imran Khan’s words, freedom fighters, then whose freedom were they fighting for?

And given that they led secure, middle-class lives in America, they were hardly the deprived wretches he described who had nothing to offer except for their lives.

At another HT Summit, a few years after Imran had offered his valuable insights into terrorism, Tony Blair spoke about the London Tube bombings.

Blair expressed the sentiment that many of us also shared. He could just about understand, he said, why a Palestinian thrown out of his home might take to violence. But what of the London bombers?

These were children of immigrant families who had enjoyed all the benefits offered to them by the British state, had suffered no oppression whatsoever, and still felt the urge to go and kill hapless civilians. It made no sense.

As should be obvious, Blair was right even if he was mystified by the causes of terrorism. And though Imran was certain in his characterization of terror, he was clearly wrong.

The truth is that there is no easy explanation for terrorism. Yes, it might sometimes be the last resort of a desperate man. But more often than not, it is an unnatural impulse that is motivated more by abnormal psychology than by any ideology.

At some level, we can just about understand why a desperate man would attack his oppressor. (As Bhagat Singh attacked British colonial officials.)

But that is not terrorism. The true definition of terrorism is when non-combatants and people with no connection to any oppression are attacked.

A man who shot Hitler would not be a terrorist. But a man who blows up a train carrying hundreds of innocent civilians is clearly a terrorist.

So, what makes the terrorist do it? I suspect that the answers continue to lie in the realm of the brain. At some level, a terrorist is like a psychopath, a serial killer who justifies his lust for blood by quoting ideology or imagined oppression.

Often, in our part of the world, terrorists share the mentality of hit men. Compare the guys accused of shooting Deepak Bharadwaj with Ajmal Kasab. In both cases, the murderers had no enmity with their victims.

They suffered no oppression and had alternative ways of making a living. They chose murder only because they had no qualms about taking lives and thought that they could earn easy money.

According to the account provided by Kasab’s father, his son left home after fighting with the family because they would not give him money for fancy new clothes.

He fell in with a terror group not because of any religious commitment or because of any empathy with oppressed Muslims elsewhere in the world.

He enjoyed the glamour and the excitement of belonging to this group and had no hesitation in causing suffering to others.

The trouble with the Imran Khan-type of defense of terrorists is that it tries to turn them into heroes and sympathetic figures while totally misunderstanding their motives or their psychology.

It is a trap that all of Pakistan fell into before their country became the sort of place where a car bomb a day does not seem like an unusual occurrence.

The way to treat terrorists is the way we treat serial killers, mass murderers and other psychopaths.

To resent suffering is normal. To protest against the oppressor is also normal. But to kill innocent civilians is far from normal. It is the mark of a sick mind, of the spirit that drove the Boston Strangler, Jack the Ripper and Raman Raghav.

And yet, the world is full of people who share Imran’s views and repeat his justifications. Even Imran himself has not said anything about shutting down the camps that train terrorists who kill innocent people in Kashmir and other parts of India.

And I suspect he makes a distinction between violence in Pakistan which he regards as terrorism and violence in Kashmir which he probably still sees as a fight for freedom.

Any civilized society must reject the specious justifications and the empty rhetoric offered by the likes of Imran Khan. We must never compromise with terror.

And when it comes to awarding punishment to terrorists, we should punish them for their acts and pay no attention to the ideological humbug they offer as justification.

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  • Abu Ahmed

    Their Interior Minister Rahman Malik is holding an international warrant for Pervez M in the Benazir murder case. These turn of events would likely see the same rendered irrelevent. These developments would lead to switching of parties by the elected MNAs; Imran Khan who is emerging as a force to reckon with, and Pervez M would join hands, with the blessings of the Army, to topple the PPP govt. Democracy would flourish under the umbrella of the Military, with the USA smiling from the sidelines. Pervez M and Imran would be able to clinch a deal with the Pakistani Taliban, that would ease out scenario enough for the US forces to depart from Afghanistan. In the whole scenario, the MFN status accorded to India by Pakistan would come good during the future political-military regime in Pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Zardari may be corrupt and not liked by majorities of fanatic pakistanis but if you see him from Indian point of view, he is the least anti-India politician in pakistan.

    India should try to help him out indirectly in whatever way possible. He is definitely much better than English speaking Jamat-e-Islami Imran Khan.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    son of a ***** go and fk ur mother from the back.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Is it a Islamic practice that you indulge in?

    Why did it hurt you if I praised India friendly Zardari? Looks like you are a pakistani..Looks like mask just slipped.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    For more than a year, this Ram Autar and fake Ravi have been peddling the idea of 5000 Dalit rapes in India daily by upper caste Hindus, still Vinod Sharma allowed both these Pakistanis to stay on the blog and vitiate the atmosphere here.

    But, now this gutter worm has descended to personal abuses of the most vile, sexist kind, like fake Ravi used for Balwinder’s wife and son.

    It is time these two gutter worms are kicked out by Vinod Sharma.

    Ravi Reply:

    Oh do shut up. You are getting boring

    Anonymous Reply:

    Terrorists stut up..You are propagandist of LeT.

    engrich Reply:

    i am awnsering ur stupidity of last blog.lunatic centre is only right place for u.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Is this the reason Mohammad never produced a son because he was scared that son will sleep with Hazrat Zainab, Hazrat Ayesha…etc.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Totally irrelevant remark and in extremely bad taste. I would suggest that you stop using such language, as it is more a reflection on you than your intended target.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    manohar jee this is in response to his remark in the last blog when he said my dog is better than ur prophet mohammad.he is absolutely a mad person.abuse our national leaders in very bad language.
    he needs treatment in lunatic centre alongwith vijay who never wrote any good blog.except naming others.
    i am sorry and apolge for spoiling ur mood.what can i do i am also human.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Abuse gets one nowhere. Did it become a reality just because he said it? He only demonstrated his class (rather the lack of it) and so you did the same.

    From now, both of you must temper your language, that is what I hope.

    engrich Reply:

    manohar_t jee he always bring our prophetindiscussion.i am sure he is an ex-muslim as he knows more about islam than me.

    we are discussing worldly affairs not religious matters.argument should be awnsered by arguments.

    Abu Ahmed Reply:

    I would very much like Zardari continue over there, for he seems to be a better politician, corrupt or otherwise is never the question as far as any politician is concerned. Question is whether the US wants him to continue – for most of the changes there are upon the US’s pleasure. And Zardari being a Shia and somehow deemed closer to Iran, though politicians are hardly known to harbor any sentimental affinities, I do not think the US would like him to continue keeping in view their future designs over Iran.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Change in Pakistan?

    There is hardly any body in the world who does not wish to see – the rogue state – Pakistan change its ways.

    The difference lies in the medicine each of us believe will do the job.

    There are quite a few in India, and dare I say some also in the US who would say lets Nuke them.

    Our own children’s correspondent from Khapistan believes that we should walk in and steal their Nukes. He has even volunteered to hold the Waga gates open until our brave soldiers return, with the booty contained in a paper bag made from a recycled old edition of Samna.

    The same correspondent and his empty headed konkoni assistant, would like India to further divide Pakistan, in this yet unproven and illogical hope, that such division will render Pakistan into a weak irrelevancy. Repercussions on India of such an act are often ignored.

    Some also hope that US will one day ignore geopolitics, realise the duplicity of the PAK Army and stop propping it up with unnecessary aid.

    All of the above are either impractical or unlikely to deliver the prize India wants.

    Yet I am of the opinion that the present status quo cannot last and sooner or later will change.

    My view is that the only durable change will come when the Pakistan Public decides that enough is enough and revolt against the military regime.

    India and the US have to bite their lip and wait until such an uprising takes place and then help the revolutionaries achieve their objective.

    I hear khappi asking why this has more chances of happening and succeeding than any of the other propositions do.

    Since the WWII no country has been Nuked and is unlikely to.

    Countries that have been divided since then have been loose federations or idelogically divided countries, such as Korea, Yogoslavia, etc.

    However, people power has changed, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

    The memo can also be viewed in this context. Perhaps the Civil Government is trying to measure the magnitude of support it is likely to get from the US, if it decided to encourage the public to take to the streets.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You are right.

    The solutions and the actions enumerated by some of the bloggers here are too simplistic. It says a lot about their level of comprehension (rather lack of it) of the geopolitical realities.

    The change in Pakistan’s relations with India has to come from within by the people. However, there is no guarantee the new order will be friendlier towards India. We should continue to engage and hope.

    The only silver lining at the moment is that a section of the establishment there is pressing for increased trade with India. It will benefit them more than us.

    BTW: Talking about changes/revolutions. See where the Jasmine revolution is going. It has gone all haywire.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    “” My view is that the only durable change will come when the Pakistan Public decides that enough is enough and revolt against the military regime “”

    Manohar,

    “” The only silver lining at the moment is that a section of the establishment there is pressing for increased trade with India. It will benefit them more than us.”"

    Why should we do something which will benefit them . Pakistan
    public will revolt against their government/military when they
    will feel completly hopless. Here I will reiterate — you both may not agree — that complete boycott of Pakistan will expediate this process and public revolt which will eventually happen.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    That is one point of view. What you perhaps is suggesting is a sort sanctions/embargo. As I mentioned it earlier, they have never worked against any country even if the sanctions have been mandated by the United Nations. So what chance if India were to boycott Pakistan and no one else?

    I would like to hear from you in detail the reasons as to why and how this boycott will make the people across the border revolt.

    Remember, a boycott will only help smuggling to flourish, so they will continue to get what they need albeit at a higher price. Smugglers are not necessarily ‘patriotic and nationalistic’, as you would like them to be.

    My view is that if it helps them more, perhaps they will realize the value of friendship and living peacefully with the neighbours.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Whatever we do Pakistan will never consider India
    as a friend. India should use diplomacy and its current economic power and force other countries
    to boycott Pakistan. It will hurt them eventually.
    Smuggled goods will cost them heavely and everything cannot be smugled.
    If I am not wrong Libya bowed down because of
    complete boycott by most of the countries and paid
    USD 2.7 billion as a compensation to victims of
    airplane blowup. Highest comensation ever :
    USD 10 million per person.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    We have been down this road before two blogs earlier.

    We do not have that clout to force the rest of the world to do our bidding. China for example, will it listen to us? We do not have a permanent seat in the UN with veto powers either to have some influence.

    China with all its greater might – economic and military – still does not have the clout it imagines it deserves – it has reduced itself to caricature – by attempting to dictate and threaten the rest – do this or don’t do this or else.

    Libya – because it involved their own citizens that the US/European powers forced it to pay up. Plus the significant fact Libya did/does not have nuclear arms.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    some of the “friends of Pakistan” are advocating ‘love them, hug them to the bosom’ kind of treatment to the terrorist nation, which has never paid any dividends in the last several decades and will not work particularly now. India should do everything possible to dismember Balochistan from the already truncated Pakistan as our top priority, to be achieved within the next five years. Rest of the parts can be dismembered “aaraam se”.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Yes, Pakistan can never be trusted.
    Hum log unse kitna bhi achcha chaleiin
    aakhir mein wo hamein pichware pe laat maarenge.

    Anonymous Reply:

    UNFINISHED PARTITION OF PAKISTAN
    ————————————————————

    In 1972, Indira Gandhi allowed a grovelling, begging Bhutto to get away with murder of 3 million Bangladeshis and helped him to re-establish himself and also raise Pakistan from the debris of a humiliating, debilitating defeat at the hands of an Indian woman prime minister.

    That was the gravest mistake Indira did. Besides not solving the Kashmir issue, she helped Bhutto create a monster next door- a nuclear armed, Islamic fundamentalist monster, which has bred millions of Islamic jihadis wreaking havoc all over the world, but primarily in India.

    Still, in the lives of countries, it is not too late. India can and should vivisect Pakistan into several states, which, even while being inimical to us, cannot do any harm to anybody, least of all to India.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    How?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Are you really expecting an answer?

    Ravi Reply:

    Well I got one of sorts, but it seems more aimed at you than me.

    I think you have really upset him.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Who cares whether i upset him or any of his fellow travellers.

    Anonymous Reply:

    As I too am an ace debater like some of the self-proclaimed ace debaters here, you have to refer to my 25 posts in the last 5 blogs. Take out print-outs if you like the replies. As a rule, ace debaters expect their posts to be worth taking print-outs of.

  • Anonymous

    The army/ISI has demanded Haqanni’s resignation and trial for sedition on charges of complicity in drafting the memo that was delivered to Mr Mullen, requesting an ‘American fist’ on the general’s table. It would not surprise me if he is tried and set to prison sentence. The media and public, instead of questioning the thug criminal Pak army/ISI ’s actions of making such demands on the democratically elected civilian government has trained its fire on the civilian administration.
    That kind of thinking only reflects the criminal Pak pro-army/isi/jihadi propoganda that you see shameless thugs from Ravi to Engrich make to defile these blogs.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ==============================================================
    ~~~ BREAKING NEWS ~~~ FOUR SIDED HIJRA DISCOVERED !!!!! ~~~~~
    ==============================================================

    HT News: Tue-22-11

    At all blog mates. A huge mystery of the Cosmos has been unravelled!! A four sided Hijra was discovered. The origins of the Hijra can be traced to the training camps of Al Zawhari and Osama. And the college degree IT has is from WCJ — Wahabbi College of Jehad.

    The four sided Hijra looks different from various sides.
    Side A– Tajendra,
    Side B– Engrich
    Side C– Ram Autar
    Side D– Ravi

    Proof of them being the same and one Hijra can be found in the last blog where Ravi accidently lets the mask slip and calls Engirch as Ram Autar !!

    Proof of them being one and the same thing can be found in matching thought processes ! ! !

    Proof of them being all mutants but one can be found in their intentions of hurting India and injuring Hindus !!!!

    Proof of them being all same can be found in their mutual cooing and love sounds… !!!!!

    Detective Vijay Kumar is willing to bet the last fake counterfiet dollar and rupee printed in the ISI press in Muridke manned by Ravi that

    All four are without Ling..
    they are all. one and the same thing..

    HAHAHHAHHHAA !! HA HAHA !! HA HAHAH !!!HAAAAHHAHHAAAA

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay and Ravi

    Both of you do seem freindly to each other !!

    I hope you guys face the onslaught together, in case evil forces from the land of “NA PAK” enter Idnia again….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    I think we need to be on the guard. The government at the centre is weak. Pakistan has often used a confrontatin with India to unite itself. If Zardari goes, we can only get someone who is worse. Imran khan in my opinon would be the worst…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Well Zardari does seem to be the best at hindsight. As Vinod Sharmaji has pointed out Musharraf and Imran Khan may combine. That would be a bad recipie for India. In that case Nawaz and Zardari may recombine…

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    In the end that means that the present dispensation of Nawaz and Zardari is the best Pakistan can provide to India.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay/Vinoo

    Combination of Musharaf and Imran Khan will be
    deadly. Disastrous for India.
    First one fanatic with a military background and mastermind of Kargil attack and another an
    educated fanatic. Very Very dangerous combination.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Mohan

    100% agree. We need to watch out. These guys might just also place Asia on a path fo confrontation with the world

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ mohan

    The Indian media has a soft spot for both of them. Just because they manage to get them to their annual debates and discussions. They forget that behind the polish… both are faces of Jinnah.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    U know my position. As far as Mr Mir Jafar and Jaichand is concerned… he would first count the dole which side gives and join the que !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Pretty funny !! made me smile…
    Engirch, Tajendar and Ram Autar are definately three sides of the same hijra.

    Thoug I think Ravi is a different person. He does have an agenda, though at times he sounds reasonable. but is certainly one dimensional in his comments on the Indian politcal situation. Hope he changs his tune.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Sanjay

    Thx!! if I made you smile and also sent my message to a nobel laureate of the Whabbi college of jehad… I think I have a reason to smile!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay Ji

    That Behravi,
    Waqt shaam ka.
    Wadi swar dhevat
    Samwadi swar Nishat

    Teen Taal mein.

    To what would you like me to change my tune to.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Change your tune to “jan gan man” from “paksitan ka matlab kya ” :)

    engrich Reply:

    BREAKING NEWS ~~~ FOUR SIDED HIJRA DISCOVERED !!!

    aur ek bhaand nachne laga

    mittal thumka lagane laga

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Engrich… khushi mein vande maatram gaane laga !!

    HAHAHHHA HAHAHAH

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/Akrum66 M.AKRAM NIAZI

    “Advantages’ of Appointing Dr.Fahmida Mirza (Speaker National Assembly) as President of Pakistan.”

    With the scenario of treason charges and bad performance of Mr. Zadora as the president of Pakistan and deteriorating economic condition of the state as well as total collapse of all institutions and departments of the Government due to corruption and mismanagement and as the personality of President itself has become a liability for the state and also for his party due to his previous record, there is need to replace him with a personality who can repair the damage caused by Mr. Zardari to the state and nation.
    If we see around there is one personality of Dr. Fahmida Mirza, who was elected as the first female Speaker of the National Assembly of Pakistan on March 19, 2008 and is also the first female parliamentary speaker in the Muslim world, could be appointed as a replacement for Zardari as President of Pakistan, even at present she acts as President of Pakistan in the absence of President.
    There will be following advantages for her appointment as president of Pakistan.
    1) She has already experience of working as acting president of Pakistan, and also has great experience of Parliament as member of national assembly about three times.
    2) She has a strong background in politics and belongs from a political family of very dedicated and famous politicians.
    3) She is highly educated and well experienced, and is able to survive the post of Speaker national assembly even in the event of serious tussle between her husband and her political party.
    4) Being a woman she will give a good and moderate image of Pakistan to world as compared to bad image created by Mr.Zardari.
    5) She is highly respected by all the political parties in the national assembly.
    6) Her appointment as President will be highly beneficial for Pakistan and for People of Province of Sindh and PPP, as Mr. Zardari have given a very bad image to Pakistan and for People of Province of Sindh and PPP and have become a black scar for them.
    7) Fortunately her husband Mr. Zulfiqar Mirza have become a very strong figure in national and provincial politics due to his sacrifice in preventing and countering target killing in Karachi, in comparison to deceptive and wicked politics and policies of Mr. Zardari. 8) More over personality of Dr.Fahmida is more graceful and sober even than Benazir Bhutto.
    9) Her appointment as president can neutralized aggressive designs of other nations against Pakistan and internally can stabilized the state and institutions due to political unrest and distress in the different sections of society, and can prevent the total destruction of national political Party(PPP).
    Written by: M.AKRAM

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Salient features of the UPA’s war against terror
    G K Pillai former Union Home Secretary ( all through under UPA) has come on record that Ishrat Jahan was a terrorist. That the LET website had shown her as a martyr, which they later removed. That the IB had given inputs to the Govt of Gujarat that she was a terrorist.
    That in the Sohrabuddin case the Union Home Ministry had first filed an Affidavit that he was Terrorist. They subsequently withdrew it and filed a fresh affidavit that they had no information that he was Terrorist. We ask was any action taken against the officials who processed and filed the first Affidavit? Presuming that the second Affidavit was correct.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    saxena upa was run by hindu terrorists they were fabricating terrorism to maintain
    atmosphere condusive to their electoral politics.since nda gone and hindu terrorist arrest are under jail,now there is no attack on parliament.there is akhshayadham.no attack of samjhauta express.
    sohrabuddin was used by modi and amit shah to extract money from bussines man.he was not terrorist at all.
    this is lie that let site has showm her as martyr.submit any proof.they had no arms ,they could be arrested .why they were killed.question is this.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    upa NDA NOT UPA .SORRY

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Praveen

    Whether all those killed were terrorists or had links or not, the basic fact is that the administration and the police have no right to take the law into their own hands and kill them or anyone else in fake encounters.

    BTW, the antecedents of a person can only be established in a court of law and not by affidavits or utterances by the police or the administration. The judge(s) have to pronounce the verdict.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    unfortunately for this congress govenment and party, the SIT “findings” have come at an inopportune time, when there is hardly anything to be gained as political mileage. The secular media hardly batted an eyelid on the “breaking news”.

    The SIT was under great pressure to “deliver”, the earlier SIT having failed to “deliver”. Probably they had failed liver!

    The congres cannot wish away Pillai or the IB inputs, which are scary.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ya hum election jeete hain ya beimanee ho gaye.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dear Manohar,

    I must appreciate your sentiments that yield a sensible mind who can wisely foresee serious repercussions that could follow. This would add nothing more then disappointment and unstable geo-political situation between the relationships of two subcontinental siblings. I for one would rather like to take a course where we should wait, watch and then proceed. The reason for that is the unstable state of Pakistan who is confronting both home grown as well as foreign aided militancy in its regions. Much of the influx has to come from its western side. So first it has to restore long oriented peace, law and order situation inside, functioning of institutions inside then enter into a phase of promises, diplomatic and economic channels with its neighbours (especially India).

    “My view is that if it helps them more, perhaps they will realize the value of friendship and living peacefully with the neighbours.”

    Sir, in return to your above quote I would like to say that ordinary Pakistani citizens like me would not like to turn down any handshake of peace and friendship offered from India and in return would always value it. But then again the interpretation can vary when it reaches in the hands of higher powers who dictate foreign policy and national security issues. I would restrict myself beyond that as I don’t represent that class.

    Thank you for your optimistic approach, would look forward for your remarks.

    Usman
    Pakistan

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Usman

    The general belief or fact if you will, which I share, is that in Pakistan it is the Army/ISI calls the shots vis-a-vis foreign policy, especially in regard to its neighbours. They tolerate the civilian administration as long it does not step in its toes. The army/ISI will be loathe to let go the power they have and enjoy over the rest of the society. A number of coups are a testimony to the latter fact.

    Therefore, however much you, me and the civilians wish, there cannot be good relations as long as the Army/ISI does not come around on board.
    Any increased trade, cultural and civilian exchanges will just remain that with no real improvement in ties.

    How does one bring the Army/ISI on board? That can be answered only by the Pakistan itself.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    And Pakistan Army believes (rightly or wrongly) that India is an existential threat to Pakistan and that perception governs its behaviour.

    How do you suppose that this mis-perception can be changed.

    US that used to buy this scenario, no longer buys it whole-sale. It is encouraging the Civilian Authorities to chip away at this and trade is just the start.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    Pakistan army does not believe rightly or wrongly that India is an existential threat – it is just a bogey to corner funds and have power over the rest of the society.

    Money and power, and the most important – answerable to none. It cannot get better than this.

    Start, yes. Let us see how it turns out. So far it has been fits and starts. Once it is in cruise control – then there is some hope.

    Ravi Reply:

    Yes I know that Pakistan uses imagined threat from India as a cash generating scenario, but I get the feeling that US has become wise to this.

    Furthermore, Pakistan Army knows this and hence a NEW cash cow, China, is being groomed on the same pretext.

    It will be interesting to see how much of the deficit created by US withdrawl will be picked up by China.

    engrich Reply:

    i agree with u

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Engirch

    have u, Ravi, Tajendra adn Ram Autar ever disgareed with each other???

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    What i believe is weak political infrastructure has paved way for military establishment to hijack parliament and dismentle the writ of constitution. Inwardly on numerous occasions weak and inapt politicians have invited this wrath. So only strong reforms in constitution and non-military institutions can grab the bull from its horns. This would then help in curbing and accountability of any process. Whether it will serve the purpose for others or not it surely will serve the purpose for Pakistan.

    Regards,
    Usman

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Usman

    The question remains
    1) How and who will grab the bull by its horns? or put it in another words – how to and who will put the genie back into the bottle?

    Couple of blogs earlier, I had suggested that Pakistan needs a Mahatma Gandhi or a Nelson Mandela to set things right. A strong nationwide people’s movement can do it and for that you need a person like the above mentioned.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I wish i could be more expressive earlier. Thinking about one example in the past of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who became a public and a national symbol for people’s voice became victim of army. Now if i compare him with Nelson Mandela or Gandhi their movement was against an alien element (white apartheid in first case and British in second) which resulted as a mass movement and a counter force to tackle the oppression. Over here its a national institute (unlike an alien element), so that has to reckon a strong and disciplined institute (parliament, political infrastructure) as a contender. Aided that with any leadership would make the genie back in the bottle. Its the system that im pointing to not only a one man show. So i’ll reiterate what i have said earlier “So only strong reforms in constitution and non-military institutions can grab the bull from its horns”.

    Hope that sums up the equation keeping in view its a long term oriented and lengthy process.

    Usman

  • Anonymous

    The whole world knows Paksiatn duplicity, its breeding of worldwide jehadism, its repeated torpedoing of India’s peace initiatives etc. Wiorld also knows how india, with all its problems, has growhn into an important player through democracy, while pakustan is in abyss through corrupt military.

    We should not spebnd a single minute on them until they have a military or civilian govt who can make decisions and abide by them.

    Denuking of course is the ideal solution so tat we can forget about the trecherous place once and for all; however US would have done it if it was easy.

    They have assisted Iran and orth Korea; they will give “dirty” bombs to JeT etc in their blind hatred of India.
    It is a “fu..d up” country top to bottom — a Pakistani participant in a US meeting I recently attended told me 1) the news about India growth is a Western propaganda 2) Why would India let me travel out 3) it must be tough to live under the draconian Hindu rule of India.. The brainwash is complete; it will take decades to undo.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I do believe Zardari definitely wants to change the situation; but he is powerless. He does have a genuine interest in peace, livg together, mutual commerce etc.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ” India should try to help him out indirectly in whatever way possible. He is definitely much better than English speaking Jamat-e-Islami Imran Khan ”

    Rajeev,

    What actions of Imran (in the context of India) make you believe Zardari is a better option. Please elaborate.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    this man has no mind he just support or abuse anybody.ur presidents are controlled by american intellengence agencies.they too are right.we have seen the end of kadhdhafi,what they are doing in syria.90%of people are with assad.the whole game is being played by shaprshooters and aljzeera tv.they are killing civilians and blaming on regime.americans europans .salfis, wahabis, zionists alqaeda, rich gulf rulers,israelis have joined hand to destroy a secular happy nation to achieve their energy interest . in libya they killed 150-200000 to remove
    a secular dictactor.who has become legend of african history.word democracy is used to destroy and pauperize the nation whose rulers care about the interest of their country.

    moreover people here dont know that nearly all pakistani want peace and trade with indiathey want to become like in india in the field of education ,bussines trade and agriculyure. .imran will repeat same language of zardari.peace with india is in interest of pakistan and india.in india except hindu zoinist everybody wants good relation with pakistan.their hate spewing has no taker in countryside as creator of wealth want peace to survive.
    we are neighbour,we have to learn to live with each other,as neighbours cannot be changed.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Usman Bhai,

    when Rajeev said ‘better’, it is better for Pakistanis, not for Indians or India. For us, both are the same: to be watched carefully and never to lower the guard against.

    In the interest of both India and Pakistan, a small, truncated XXXXSTAN is any time better and less dangerous than the present terrorist state of Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab,
    :) . I understand your point, take your pick would you not expect the same in return?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Imran’s position on Kashmir is very rigid and he does support terrorism against India to achieve that goal whereas Zardari has never made any such statement. He is the one who is willing to walk miles to have good relations with India.

    I find Imran Khan as Islamic fundamentalist who believes that existence of pakistan is based on the principle of being ANTI-INDIA and ANTI-HINDU. The only selling point that he has in India is that he is good looking and speaks fluent english.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    I have serious doubts on your opinion about Imran.

    1. His position on Kashmir about India is the same as that of US over Afghanistan. What he says is: military occupation is no solution.
    He has the most lenient take on India about Kashmir then any of the politicians on our side. He sure is vocal unlike others whereas Asif Ali Zardari has least knowledge about any foreign issue let alone India. His quietness on serious issues speaks more about him.

    2. Out of all the politicians Imran has the most experience about India. Let alone be sports he has been invited numerously in India for humanitarian aspects and in return has invited some for his noble cause in Pakistan. So despite your so called supposition of anti-India, anti-Hindu the exchange of peace and friendship is more with Imran than any other politician.

    Have a look at:
    http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/201956/will-stop-terror-groups-if-elected-pm-imran.html

    and see what Imran says in response to Karan Thapar’s questions.

    Usman

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Usman,
    I understand your admiration for Imran. Imran is new flavor of the season in pakistan as Musharraf was after the coup.

    I am sure after 5 years, you will ask for Imran’s head. This is pakistani politics.

    I choose to disagree with your views on Imran. He was the one who instigated large scale violence against NATO soldiers on fake news of Quran Insult. Such as person is far dangerous than a terrorist.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Post a reference to this protest. I haven’t heard of it yet.

  • engrich

    sorry this is against bstrd who has written this.in last blog he insulted my prophet.i will fk his mthr if i find.
    he does this usually.
    regarding pakistan,pakistan is not a soveriegn country.this is controlled by americans.their president has to do what they want.
    so why unnessarily blame.
    in india rss is their local agent they helping cia to unfold their plan.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Usman bhai welcome. Since everyone agrees that Pakistan is one of most dangerous country in world, it is natural to TRY and divide it, whole world will then breathe easy. This is not personal against you, if more like you, Fasi Zaka, Ansar Burneys etc were around_ then there wud be no problem.
    India has chance, small chance to breakaway Balochstan, and shud capitalise on it. Even if we do not bresk it away, we can at least make Pakistani jehadis and ISI think twice in future. SO PLEASE USMAN, DONT TAKE IT PERSONAL, everyone wants it , US, europe, india, israel

    sorry yr question as to why Zardari is better than Imran is childish, Zardari has NEVER been aggressive towards india. SIMPLE. Imran has. Looking forward to yr response

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    man bhai welcome. Since everyone agrees that Pakistan is one of most dangerous country in world,
    RUBBISH AND WRONG.LIBYA WAS NOT DANGEROUS COUNTRY WHY IT IS DESTROYED SO THE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTA.

    WORLD IS RULED BY MAFIA.WHO WANT THE CONTROL OF NATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE ECONOMIC INTEREST.THEY WANT TO SEPRATE KARACHI FROM PAKISTAN TO HAVE FULL CONTROL OVER THE CITY SO THAT CENTRAL ASIAN OIL CAN BE TRANPORTED TO WORLD OVER.

    since hindu terrorist are caught sent to jail there is no bomb blast.99%of of terrorist activitis are guided an controlled by oil mafia ,all over the world and in pakistan and afghanistan.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    war is a big racket.a ukranian has purchased the house of indian for 200 million dollars.ukrain is one of the poorest country of world.from where he got such huge sum.

    WAR IS A RACKET.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Engrich,

    What you stated is our personal experience. Media warfare games has to play more and above then other tactics. The least said the better.

    Usman

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    Lets just imagine that India was able to break Balochistan away, the rest of pakistan, miffed as it would be, decides to take revenege.

    Who do you think they would exact the revenge from.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    good question.since abhnav bharat is caught ,thereare no bomb explosion all over india.surprising.where is simmi indian mujahideen huji,
    what does it means,

    hindu terrorist (brhmnst)were acting on the instructions of international terrorist mafia.then they say that we are patriot.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Who do you think they would exact the revenge from”

    From Fake Sikhs… :) shup up idiot.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The example of anti-india Bangladesh is in front of us. If we divide pakistan further we will have multiple pakistan hating India because all of those country have anti-Hinduism as their core belief.

    The best thing is to keep pot boiling in Balochistan & Sindh and bleed pakistan by thousand cuts..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Balwinder Sahab,

    I’ve stated my response “why Zardari is better than Imran” in reply to Rajeev you can have a better look at the link i have provided.

    Its a lengthy debate as why the world wants to divide Pakistan it has more geopolitical reasoning than terrorism. The events in past thirty years, the rise of China and the changing Arab world has inclined west to now look for more suitable resources in Central Asia. Divide and Rule has been the oldest ways to rule the world, nothing new. Would leave that for discussion ahead due to time constraints.

    Regards,
    Usman

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay Kumar, Vinoo, Mohan, Sanjay,

    When the **** uses capitals in bold and says HINDOO FUNDOO, he is fake Ravi. When the **** uses brahmnst, zionst, jewsh and thows in deliberate spelling mistakes, he is RamAutar/Tajender/engrich/vermin/**** etc..

    All are jihadi terrorists spewing anti-India, anti-Hindu garbage. Most reprehensible being 5000 dalit rapes every day in India by upper caste Hindus.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    SO WHAT U WANT TO SAY.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    That you are a four faced ravan hijra :)

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    RAVAN WAS NOT HIJRA.he kidnapped sita.

    Anonymous Reply:

    But Mohammad was Hijra because all his wives used to sleep around.

    engrich Reply:

    like ur mother used to sleep with me.son of a *****

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohammad used to sleep around with his male disciples.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,
    Engrich and Ravi are two bodies but one mind..but there is a third fool who is playing in the hands of these Jehadis.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Is it do jism aur ek jaan
    ya

    Ek jism, do naam?

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    mantaq muslim countries are providing employment to 2 crores hindus.

    as per international pakistanis are more happier than indian.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    India should make pakistan weak internally by strengthening Balochis and Sindhis and at the same time bring Afghanistan in Indian orbit..then we will have pakistani punjabis isolated who will be regularly blown up by miffed Balochis, Sindhis and Pathans.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Many TV journalists defended Rahul’s remark calling it metaphor or slip of tongue. Today Rahul Gandhi defended his remark saying that whenever he speaks to a beggar in Delhi, they tell him they are from UP. Now here are some question-
    1. Rahul enjoys Z plus security so their is no chance of his interacting with beggars of delhi unless it is election time.
    2. I guess during Bihar election, rahul gandhi claimed that most of the beggars in delhi came from Bihar.
    3. Rahul made beggar statement in relation of UP people going to Maharashtra. Now he has added Delhi to the list. His grandfather who hailed from Allahabad went to Delhi. Does that mean he too was beggar.

    Rahul is proving to be a total ******. This guy keeps making this type of statements and poor Congressmen have no choice but to defend him.

    I have full sympathies for Congressmen doing the dirty job.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Here is something for the RSS/BJP trolls to chew about.

    This is what the print edition of The Economic Times dated 22-11-2011 said.

    History Lessons

    Though the grand finale of the BJP’s state-wide twin yatras in UP didn’t exactly end on a high last week, party leader Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi chose the occasion to treat the audience to his special perspective on history and politics. Launching an attack on the ‘family-rule culture of the Congress’ and those who help sustain ‘the dynasty’, Naqvi ‘reminded’ the audience how the Gandhi family and its supporters “sabotaged the emergence of Sardar Patel as the natural Prime Minister after the death of Nehru only to help Indira Gandhi become the Prime Minister”.

    His bold show of warping history and an even bolder attempt to kill Nehru off before Patel died, one presumes, must have earned Naqvi an A+ from tutors(*) of wild imaginings.

    * The RSS who else.
    ——————-

    One knows the RSS has been attempting to rewrite the history of the world to suit its agenda, but this is ………..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Anna on the rocks over flogging fix for alcoholics

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Anna-on-the-rocks-over-flogging-fix-for-alcoholics/Article1-772761.aspx

    The self appointed moral policeman of India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rahul on the rocks for calling UP people beggar and then defending the remarks again.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    From the print edition of Hindustan Times dated 23-11-2011.

    Excerpts

    I do not see any reason, then, why Anna Hazare should want to tie the drinkers (or even drunkards) in his village to an electricity pole (electricity pole, for God’s sake! What if there is a short circuit?) and flog them to shame. He has been implementing this rather medieval and barbaric/Talibanlike method in his village of Ralegan-Siddhi for some years (and now he comes out openly about it in a remarkable interview to NDTV’s Srinivasan Jain).

    ————

    However, this is not the only dictatorial stance that Anna has taken in his village how many people know that there are tens of young boys who run away from RaleganSiddhi rather than follow his diktat that they must first do a stint in the army, like him (it’s good for the character, you see), when they actually want to make a career in information technology or some other equally fashionable profession these days?

    They dare not voice their opinions because Anna’s word is law in their village and even their parents don’t dare oppose him or plead for their sons’ futures.

    Mahatma Gandhi, as far as I know, was never such a tin-pot dictator!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Yes, Anna is not perfect. Name one person who is perfect.
    I will still support him for his fight against corruption.
    You are doing the same thnig as other congresswalas are doing.
    Killing the messenger.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Agree. Nobody is perfect. To err is human (so I cannot name anyone who is perfect). But what Anna is doing in his village is pure Talibanisque dictatorship and surely not acceptable. It has nothing do with one’s imperfections.

    Even Mahatma Gandhi was not a perfect human being, he had his warts, but he did not go around imposing his will, morals and lifestyle on others by force and violence.

    By now you should realize as to why Anna is supporting the draconian Jan Lok Pal bill (*) – unfettered powers and answerable to none – a mirror image of his own self in his village. Democracy, individual rights, etc. be damned.

    * We have to wait and see what Lokpal bill as passed by the Parliament will be like. The Team Anna is still insisting on their version be passed in toto.

    Some reader elsewhere on the net has coined a new name for him

    Talibanna Hazare.

    If you consider that pointing out negatives of others is killing/shooting the messenger, so be it. BTW, this same things goes on and on on this blog too. When confronted with uncomfortable truths and facts – attempts to shoot the messenger.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    “….but he did not go around imposing his will, morals and lifestyle on others by force and violence.”

    This “ace debater” has some really twisted sense of history, perhaps congress style.

    When Mahatma Gandhi slept naked between two naked girls, did he seek their willingness to or acceptance of his “plan” to practise “calibacy”?

    When he forced inmates of his ashram in SA to clean their own shit, did he seek their acceptance of his scheme?

    In both cases, the answer is NO. Mahatma is not used to the idea of common consent.

    Even when he called off the country wide satyagraha post chauri chaura, he never consulted any of his colleagues. He was always a dictator, even though history teaches us that he was a loveable dictator.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Some more trying to “kill” the messenger

    Anna Hazare wears a Gandhi cap but thinks like Taliban: SP

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_anna-hazare-wears-a-gandhi-cap-but-thinks-like-taliban-sp_1616556

    engrich Reply:

    One knows the RSS has been attempting to rewrite the history of the world to suit its agenda, but this is

    rss copies zoinists.they are their satanic cousins.lie is their staple food hate is duty ,through war and voilence they make.zoinists aim to enslave world is yet to be completed.they have already
    enslaved india and indian mind.india is passing through very dangerous period.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Here is something for Congressi trolls to chew about-
    1. Patel was selected as PM choice by 13 Pradesh Congress committees.
    2. For Acharya Kriplani, 2 Pradesh comm. forwarded support.
    3. Only one Pradesh Comm. supported Nehru.
    4. Under pressure from Mahatma Gandhi, Patel gave his support to Nehru so that he can become PM.

    This is all part of history.

    Naqvi may have weaved some nonsense around the facts but basic facts don’t change.

    Now Congressi trolls…your turn.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Why is it Congressi trolls are natural allies of Jehadi elements? What joins them? Corruption, Anti-Indianism, Anti-hinduism…

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    balwinder jee try to understand,

    international terrorism is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media.”

    “It is the policy of the United States government to provoke violent extremist groups into action. Once they are in play, their responses can then be used in whatever way the government that provoked them sees fit. And we also know that these provocations are being used, as a matter of deliberate policy, to rouse violent groups on the to launch terrorist attacks.

    one american senator has written,

    We have little concern about our violations of human rights in Guantanamo. ….the real horrors – of this war come with the primitive killer mentality developed in our youth. I’ve now seen a half dozen documentary films and read eyewitness accounts that reveal troops or pilots gloating over the massacres of civilians who just happened to be available targets

    i dont know whether it is war on terror or a global crusade on islam.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar (Vijay note, I have left the mask at home today)

    Be serious.

    If you were to wage a Global Crusade against Islam, where would you start?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    crusade on islam is started by others.we are the victims.their starting point is oilfields and finish on delivery point.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    So is Islam the target?

    Or

    is oil the target

    Oil being the target is understandable – for satisfying US’s energy security needs.

    engrich Reply:

    oil is the target.now jehadis are their ally.in libya americans alqaida salfis and wahabis were fighting side by side against ghaddafi.same is position of syria as well.
    but common muslim is victim because of presence of oil in their terrotery.

    engrich Reply:

    islam is also target.as zoinists are against tribalism.like the tribes of america canada newzealand and australia were finished.they want tribes of muslim countries.

    in india also they want castless society means tribes must be eliminated.rss attack on indian tribals is part of this game.

    engrich Reply:

    ravi bhai,Terrorism is a political technique, not an ideology and any group willing to use violence in pursuit of its political goals may resort to it.
    Did the US Empire achieve any of its strategic goals in transporting super war machines and the military and civilian death squads to Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
    The United States is not fighting a “war against terror.” In reality, what the United States leadership is doing is fighting its own articulated war against the people and nations who had no animosity, nor did any perceive capability to threaten the US as a global power.reason is again same oil and gas.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I am reading excellent book In spite of the Gods by Ed Luce, he reminds me of Gopi Thomas and Mishraji, very gud understanding of hindu and Indian civilisation at its place in world today. He said, RISE OF INDIA IS GOING TO LEAD TO MORE STABLE WORLD ORDER.

    Wah, khush keeta, bhaut changee gal keeti. Everyone go out and buy this book, he is Oxford grad who was Financial Times India chief. USMAN, I WAIT YR REPLY, pl u go out and read this book, understand why Indis will become respected power, not ugly superpower.
    …..Ravi, when Pakistan is divided u hv to be prepared for blowback. But dividend is long term , for thousand years. And our involvement will be sureptitous, our turn to bleed them by 100,000,000 cuts.
    When bangalidesh was created, we reduced jehadi pool by 100 million. Ravi keeps talking of rogue Pak govt, implying ISI , omits to mention Islamist talebani fundoo jehad loving mindset of ?20 percent of ppl. That pool has to be kept limited.
    MISHRAJI, pl come blog burns now, I will email him. Does anyone hv Gopi email, or Rizwan

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb, ppl like u r ambasadors of indian muslims. Thanks for flying flag abroad.
    rajeev and egerich, this is gentleman blog, no vulgarity pl. OR VINODJI, PL U BAN OFFENDERS, keeps gud ppl away. DR SHAH ALAM, COME BAK

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    My fear is the blowback will be Nuclear.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi, if fight is frontal and in yr face or if Pakistan faces attack on PAF, then blowback could be nuclear. But when we use RAW for inflaming things in Balochstan, a continuous funding of Bugti and gang, then THEY CANNOT nuclear us.
    More possible is hit on our embassy in Kabul.
    Getting oasama was easy, getting those 1000 nuclear bombs, almost impossible. Maybe cause a limited internal leak in a reactor and scare shit out of them. ???? Or slowly wait for them to go bankrupt like Greece???

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi thomas was the biggest liar of this blog,rss man.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Some people here are advocating vivisection of Pakistan. How it is to be done – there is thundering silence from these advocates as to how this can be achieved.

    Here are some suggestions.

    1) Take a large map of Pakistan and a pair of scissors, ….

    2) Take a large map of Pakistan and a marker pen, ….

    3) Resurrect Sir Cyril Radcliffe and entrust the job to him.

    4) Go to Wagah Border with a megaphone and tell them loud and clear – enough is enough, now divide your country into smaller parts.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mr Vinod Sharma writes
    “Pakistan is a land of conspiracies— imaginary and real. Much of what’s retailed by word of mouth or friendly media persons shows civilian rulers in poor light. The underlying message in the so-called “memogate” is that the men in Khaki could do no wrong, that they are the best defenders of Pakistan’s national interest.”
    If that is the prevailing situation in Pakistan , does he not realize the futility of his prescription “Trust and Verify”.
    There is only one prescription for India. Keep building your military might and the required part of our Economic growth has to be set aside for it.. If there is hostile action by any of our neigbours , and that threat does looms large over the country , the country shall have to look towards General V K Singh and not Montek Singh Ahluwalia. The most important determining factor for our foreign policy shall be India’s military might .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Presently we look to Montek Singh Ahluwalia, who looks to MMS, who looks to Sonia Gandhi, who looks to the Pope, who looks to God who……..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    As usual you made me smile.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @praveen JI, Recently back from India .more on that later.The people of India beleive THEY ARE WITHOUT A PM FOR LAST THREE YEARS.
    Indian Army is a white elephant , NEVER FOUGHT ANY WAR IN LAST 40YRS KILLED MORE INDIANS THAN WHAT THE PAK AND CHINKYS EVER MANAGED TO DO.
    This Army sucks so much of money , yet nothing to show COMPARE WITH SRILANKAN ARMY.
    Also this Memogate shows PAK ARMY has a vice like grip on Pakistan;s foreign policy SO NOT A GREAT DEAL WILL HAPPEN.
    Also the differenece between Pakistan and India in social structure , economics,science IS SO WIDE it will breed jealousy .
    So INDIA NEEDS TO SPEAK BLUNT. Hand over all terrorist , sign a FRIENDSHIP TREATY , REDUCE PAK ARMY,S SIZE BY HALF FOR PAKISTAN’S BENEFIT,INDIA MOVE MOST OF ITS ARMY TO BORDER WITH CHINA

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ 5cingulategyrus9
    If we can have an understanding with Pakistan , what better than that , but it shall only be wishful thinking. In my opinion , India shall always require to develop it capabilities to defend itself.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    why india has bad relationship with all its neighbours,from hindu nepal to budhdhist burma and lanka communist china and muslim bangladesh and pakistan.
    internally also brhmnst are getting isolated everyday.

    great sonia is the only hope for common indian.the way she is managing the affairs,god bless her and manmohan jee.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    So INDIA NEEDS TO SPEAK BLUNT. Hand over all terrorist , sign a FRIENDSHIP TREATY , REDUCE PAK ARMY,S SIZE BY HALF FOR PAKISTAN’S BENEFIT,INDIA MOVE MOST OF ITS ARMY TO BORDER WITH CHINA

    will india hand over advani to pakistan who ran away from karachi after plantingbomb in a public meeting after all his comrades were arrested.he came through boac to india in 1959.since then he is serving brhmnsm instead india.beng khtri sikh now kicked out by brhmnst.now passing life of living dead.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    90%of pakistanis want pakistan to be like india.india is their role model .they want peace and bussines.i met few pakistani farmers who look towards india for agragarian reform and better price for their product.pak students wants colleges and universities like in indian punjab.

    punjab idrivers of lahore pray for their marriage to vidya,balan or ktrina kaif.

    PUNJABI BALWINDER wanted dr misra ,what he got dr shan.

    maine chaand aur sitaroon ke tammana kee thee

    mujhe ratton ke tanhayee ke siwa kutch na mila.

    brhmnst hate spewing has no taker on either side of border.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Engrich,

    Can you please provide the link to this Advani episode,
    I would like to read that.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    can check with pak embassy and bjp head office.he is sikh not hindu.though he hurted india through ram mandir movement.

  • engrich

    shan do you agree that,

    The new model of Project Brahmanism is to fight against corruption and population growth not against casteism, fascism, communalism, gender inequity, capitalism or anything else.Well corruption had been always a yardstick to freeze the core issues of any region. The issues I have mentioned above that I have mentioned about. The word corruption is a misnomer, for it implies that there is something called honest… capitalism. Corruption is worked into the fabric of capitalism. Sir Francis Drake made a fortune as a “privateer,” the polite word for pirate. In addition to indulging in the very lucrative slave trade, he routinely captured and ripped off French ships. One nation’s piracy was another nation’s foreign policy.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Has Engrich written this piece. The way it is worded, it looks like
    someone else has written. Any clues guys ?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The islamist party consolidation in egypt, renewed uprising/killings in Tahrir Square, Islamist radicals’ rise in Tunisia etc do not provide much hope for a Jefforsinian democracy in the Arab world. For all you know, Saudi Arabia may be funding all these Islamists.

    Something can be done with Pakistan minus nukes. It seems even US is at wits end with them because they have nukes. A joint India-US-Israel-other countries effort to forcefully remove the nukes should eb undertaken. But it is going to be tough.

    Pakistan state (whatever the “state” is), pakistan terrorists, and even some Pak politicians will use the uke against India. They openly talk about it – their political leaders (not the ones in power now), their opinion makers – I have yet to see an Indian political leader (of any party) openly advicating nuking Pak.

    They openly talk about “water must flow, or blood will” regarding Bahlihar and other dams. Nawai-Waqt, a widely read paper there wanted pakistan to use uclear bombs to stop the dam projects. Abdur rehman Makki, the extremist leader, told a rally “we will let loose a river of blood if these dams block their water”..
    For Pakistan, it is always bllood. Come to think of it blood, cockroach, etc is in the daily vocabulary of Pakistanis and other Muslim countries. Sadam Hussain always used to talk about killing cockroaches (enemies). Ahmanejad always uses the imagery of cockroaches, worms; Al queda and extremist leaders always talk in terms of cutting the head of the pig– obviously for a large section these imageries must be quite appealing.,

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi from saddam to ghaddafi nobody ever go anywhere to attack somebody.it is cockroaches who attacked them under zoinists flag mandate.
    word democracy is used to destroy a weak country.game always starts with snipers sharpshooters and deathsquades,like now in syria.from where even jews refuse to go isreal.all races and religions live like brothers,catholic,orthodox,coptics,phonecians ,druzes, armenians,sunnis,shias,even animists,but few snipers and a television station made the issue bigi will be surprised if rss goons are also there.they are in pakistan and afghanistan.

    water issue is serious issue.should be settled through talks.war is big racket if brhmnst and jehadis join hands to push us into war.very easy for them.ahmadinajad never said that he will nuke israel.actually they have no nuke.it is israel america and ur satanic cousins are threatening with nuke attack.i am sure they will do it.but for what i dont understand.

    there are some in world who take stand and some who sing vande matram and sell the nation.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is more like it. This is written by original Ram avtar then Tajender and now Engrich.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Jefforsinian democracy in the Arab world. For all you know, Saudi Arabia may be funding all these Islamists
    in these movement cia wahabis salafis zoinists americans european are working in tandem to destroy secular movements.saudis and wahabis have no support in general muslim community.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Nuking anyone is out of the question. One such horrible incident in 1945 has been enough to drive home the point to all (even to the rogue states) that it is not an option.

    Nuclear weapons are only a deterrent. You cannot use atomic bombs to get rid of the unwanted section (generally the leadership at that point in time) of a country, the collateral damage (to the people and the environment) is too high and the radiation and other ill-effects do not respect any international boundaries.

    Moreover, one cannot walk into any country and get hold of the nuclear weapons. Perhaps, in case of Pakistan, the USA may have a contingency plan to take charge if the need arises.

    After 1945, the USA and the West has been involved many wars in different countries – Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Using nuclear bombs was never an option. It was always conventional warfare.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Yes, the Jasmine revolution is turning sour. The rise of fundamentalist forces is a real danger not only in Egypt, but in Libya, Yemen and Tunisia too. The irony is that the ‘liberal’ regimes became so dictatorial, corrupt and insensitive to the needs of the people, that people probably would say anything (including fundamentalist regime) is better than the monsters who ruled them. Turkey, perhaps with the most desirable system among the Islamic countries, has been resisting the spread of the fundamentalist Islam. Who will win?

    This would continue as long as religion is not confined to the four walls of one’s home and places of worship (as Mohan and me have always harped upon).

    Saudi Arabia would be the main supporter in terms of funds with lot of strings attached in spreading their brand of Islam.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Can Pakistan be trusted?
    The question presupposes a homogeneity that is absent even in less fractured polity- with Pakistan, the assumption is not valid.
    There are power groups like Army, ISI, political parties – who sometimes form a government with varying degrees of legitimacy. Are they singly or jointly, Pakistan?
    What of the non-state actors? What of those who thought the killer of Salman Taseer was a national hero? What about those who did not dare attend his funeral, far less condemn the killing? Are they Pakistan?
    What about those in the Pakistani media- who, at great risk to life, hold a mirror up to the horror that is Pakistan? Are they Pakistan?
    Which one of the above “Pakistan”s is winning?

    Next question, what can you do about it; assuming you are an Indian?
    Build our own country and hope to put such a distance between us and them- in all socio-economic, miltitary and cultural areas- so that the world finds it much more in its self-interest to deal with us in preference to Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish-

    As you know, nobody is knocking on Pakistan’s doors. Even china is tired by Pak’s duplicity.

    The point you brought up – which Pakistan or who is Pakistan – is the crux.

    Either they will kill each other and the last “pure” man will stand up. Or some hero (definitely not the old cricketeer) will arise — but Zia Haq has seen to it that they all have been wahabized. It is not in the Wahabi DNA to rise for the country.

    Come to think of it, weren’t the seeds of its destruction sown on the day it was created. “Land of THE PURE”, such a definitive statement !

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi it is not true that pakistan is wahabized.in india fascist rss and bjp got 32%of votes while muslim communal parties could never reach 7%.pakistan is battlefield of world powers from last 30 years.unemployement and lack of education made them suicide bomber(sometime).
    u people instead of trying to help them to improve u alwys falsely charge them.which is not in interest of india.but u live on fear politics.tell me why,

    since nda has gone and rss terorist put in jail, there is no bomb explosion
    there is attack on our parliament ,on akhshyadham or on samjhauta express.why why why.
    u hindu zionists are anti-national.u started ram temple movement to start
    war between shaivite and vaishanites.blood bath in northern india.there is no ram temple in hindi speaking belt.u built the movement in pure zoinist way,
    through media snipers and death squads.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think Desi Daaru is banned in Islam.

    engrich Reply:

    tell me anything specific.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    You can bet your last riyal, there are two jihadis on this blog who will defend Pakshitstan come what may.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Nice debate was taking place.

    Then this runt opens his bowels

    Anonymous Reply:

    What else were you expecting?

    AshishC Reply:

    Gopi,
    I am pessimistic too- of trying to engage Pakistan in the short term except as a purely defensive measure and also the world expects us to.
    We need to continue to build our “muscle” in all spheres.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    A very thought-provoking post.

    Which one of the above “Pakistan”s is winning? It is the Army/ISI, if you ask me and it is so since the 50s.

    IMO, the real question is to ask and worry about is how long the Army/ISI can continue to be on top of the heap?

    There is already a distance in areas you mentioned and perhaps with the exception of few, they have started preferring to deal with us. Things go where there is money to be made and surely on that count we have much more to offer.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    ” Things go where there is money to be made and surely on that count we have much more to offer”
    This is what I have been saying. Hit them where it hurts.
    Why should we allow them to make money and prosper. Why
    this MFN status is given to them. Cease all relations with Pakistan.
    I may sound very rigid in my approach but I dont think anything
    else will work. Pakistan as a state cannot be trusted.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Unless it is universally enforced, which is not going to happen, it is not going to hurt them tremendously. One set of money will be replaced by some other money. I am sure you are also aware of illegal trade via roundabout way and direct smuggling. Things will still go where the money is – legally or illegally.

    You may not agree with it, but what Vinod Sharma said two blogs earlier was correct – trust but verify.

    Take for instance, sports. After the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore, no international events have taken place in Pakistan, yet their teams travel abroad and use UAE as their home base for sporting contests. Not a nice situation for Pakistanis and but tolerable I suppose. One can hope the people realize the damage their masters cause by cultivating Frankenstein monsters on their soil. The cleaning up process, if ever undertaken, will take a very long time and it has to come from within. IMO, sanctions and isolation is not going to work.

    Take another instance, Indian Films, they were banned in Pakistan for years, I think since 1965 and even today there are lot of restrictions. Have the Pakistanis been deprived of the joy (whatever there is) of watching Hindi Films all these years? No.

    engrich Reply:

    brhmnst want destruction not development.they want war as it makes them rich.while genera lindian become poor.we should not trust pakistan but on and for mutual interest.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    You have analyised Pakistan perfectly. Can we trust this nation ?
    Why should we keep any relation with this country? Any relation
    will only benefit them and that benefit will eventually turn into some
    terrorist attack on India.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Mohan,
    again, my question. Will the “real Pakistan” please stand up?
    I think it is more difficult to deal with Pakistan than even North Korea- in the latter, you at least know who you are dealing with; howsoever irrational and unpredictable. With Pakistan, you are never sure.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pakistan has many faces, some dominant one and some marginal.
    1. Army – Is the supreme decision taking body.
    2. ISI – Dirty work department of pakistan.
    3. ISI with embedded Armymen – These are involved in training and logistical support for foot soldiers.
    4. Foot soldiers – These can be Armymen in disguise or Civilian Jehadis.
    5. Army-ISI-Terror Groups nexus – LeT is best example of this co-operation.
    6. Religious parties – These parties keep the hate pot boiling calling for killing of Hinood-Yahood-Amrikan..Engrich is product of this hate.
    7. Political leadership – This is the least important face of pakistan. It tows the line of first 6 based on circumstances and is disposed off by Army-ISI at will.

    India can never achieve any peace deal with Pakistan because there is no central authority with which it can negotiate any deal. None of the institutions in pakistan can be trusted with honoring any deal (Shimla agreement is best example).

    So India should start thinking pragmatically about Pakistan PROBLEM and stop deluding itself about everlasting peace with this neighbor. Pakistan has been successful in creating an internal pakistan within India that is causing India to weaken within. The elements like Engrich and Ravi are product of such initiative from Pakistan.

    1. Cutting off Financial funding
    India should work on cutting off funding system for Pakistan. It’s a huge task but India can work on it using its growing economic clout. The US govt. is unwilling to fund Pakistan and Chinese for all that tall talks have never helped pakistan in any big way financially. India needs to work on China front so that it can move away from Pakistan. Then the third actor Saudi needs to be managed and I am sure using Pakistan-Iran nuclear co-operation facts-propaganda, Saudi can be moved away from Pakistan with the help of US.

    2. Helping Separatists
    India should start helping Balochistan indirectly thru Nortern alliance in Afghanistan. The Mohajirs are most suppressed people who have been denied their share. We can use their anger in our favor and keep Karachi unstable (financial capital). If we develop good relations with Afghanistan (Pashtuns), it can help us with indirect influence in NWFP. These pathans can be used tactically in various parts of Pakistan.

    3. Develop pro-India political/Intelligence assets in Pakistan
    Paksitanis just like Indians are corrupt people. India should buy politicians and intelligence officers who are willing to sell their services. RAW should be reactivated and for next 5 years we should develop internal India within pakistan.

    4. Pro-India propaganda
    In the border areas, India should air anti-pak propganda and bombard pakistani airwaves with Indian programs and propaganda. We should use Bollywood with precision to propogate our points across the border.

    5. Keep Pakistan dry and flooded when desired

    6. Start hunting down pakistani assests in India and start liquidating them circumventing the law. These people should be treated as faceless terrorists.

    What I mean to say is that there is no need for direct war with Pakistan. We need to activate low-intensity proxy-war against pakistan and at the same time work on minimising pakistan’s penetration in India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,
    Please allow me to expand your canvas a bit further.
    IMHO, Contours of our own conflict with Pakistan expand much beyond Pakistan, dragging China / US / IRAN OIL in the Afghan terrain. Kashmir – at this point – appears to be enjoying much lower lank in “siyasati” play. Not to say Kashmir is not a “problem” – just that at this point our own making/un-making is vastly influencing the situation there. Maybe, touritsts from rest of India are indeed much better ambassadors than the security forces.
    Back to the expanded canvas….
    If anything, the current “love is in the air” mood between Indian and Pakistani establishment does hint at settlement betweeen the two in – guess what – Afghanistan. Secondly, despite American provocations (I am essentially harping on Ms. Clinton’s public statements here) , Indian establishment appears to be inclining itself towards an negotiated settlement on contentious issues both with Chinese and Pakistani establishments. (For isntance, AFAIK – the last publicly made “Brahmaputra noises” made by chinese were way back in early 2010 , nothing much since then. Perhaps a very clear indicator of backdoor channel dimplomacy).
    Secondly, this is about Pakistan itself. Past several years of its engagement in “war on terror” appears to have been much more disastrous for Pakistan. Actually to the point that “soverign undercurrents” withing Pak military establishment are gaining enough currency that their voices can no longer be ignored. In this context, US taking out OBL on Pakistani soil might actually be a blessing indisguise for Pakistan in that it has probably stirred the old debate on it participation in “war on terrorism”. Secondly, while the US aid for Pakistan that compensated its participation in “war on terror” did enrich military bureaucracy – there are sufficient hints emanating from Pakistani public media and other channels that the so said war has been terribly detrimental. As much so that it is leading to breakdown of “soverign finance” – perennially diverting the state’s resources from public welfare. The resulting poverty and alienation is most likely fuelling un-rest , perhaps in the form of jehad against Pakistani army.
    So, what geve when Peace overtures were exchanged between India and Pakistan ? Most likely – several factors – including our own eagerness towards securing the Iranian oil supply. Some Chines, some Pakistani that don’t see India as central part of their problem .
    Will it last ? Not sure, given the meddlesome CIA and chanciness of our similar endaeavours in the past.
    Best I could wish in a not so perverted sense is – let us rather exchange oriental porn , spices etc. than mortar fire.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Nothing will change unless the systems that allow Pak military to preside over 80% of the GDP are dismantled — but dismantling will be extremely difficult unless there is a successful revolt of the people…all very unlikely.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Very apt.

    About your recommendation. Isn’t that what is happening.

    Isn’t that the source of much of resentment Pakistan feels. The two nations had a similar start and one has nearly become a new super power and a respected member of the world community, while Pakistan languishes in religious fundamentalist mire.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    Kudos. Great thread. Really serious & intelligent debate,except for an inane post or two.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Pakistan has many faces, some dominant one and some marginal.
    1. Army – Is the supreme decision taking body.
    2. ISI – Dirty work department of pakistan.
    3. ISI with embedded Armymen – These are involved in training and logistical support for foot soldiers.
    4. Foot soldiers – These can be Armymen in disguise or Civilian Jehadis.
    5. Army-ISI-Terror Groups nexus – LeT is best example of this co-operation.
    6. Religious parties – These parties keep the hate pot boiling calling for killing of Hinood-Yahood-Amrikan..Engrich is product of this hate.
    7. Political leadership – This is the least important face of pakistan. It tows the line of first 6 based on circumstances and is disposed off by Army-ISI at will.

    India can never achieve any peace deal with Pakistan because there is no central authority with which it can negotiate any deal. None of the institutions in pakistan can be trusted with honoring any deal (Shimla agreement is best example).

    So India should start thinking pragmatically about Pakistan PROBLEM and stop deluding itself about everlasting peace with this neighbor. Pakistan has been successful in creating an internal pakistan within India that is causing India to weaken within. The elements like Engrich and Ravi are product of such initiative from Pakistan.

    1. Cutting off Financial funding
    India should work on cutting off funding system for Pakistan. It’s a huge task but India can work on it using its growing economic clout. The US govt. is unwilling to fund Pakistan and Chinese for all that tall talks have never helped pakistan in any big way financially. India needs to work on China front so that it can move away from Pakistan. Then the third actor Saudi needs to be managed and I am sure using Pakistan-Iran nuclear co-operation facts-propaganda, Saudi can be moved away from Pakistan with the help of US.

    2. Helping Separatists
    India should start helping Balochistan indirectly thru Nortern alliance in Afghanistan. The Mohajirs are most suppressed people who have been denied their share. We can use their anger in our favor and keep Karachi unstable (financial capital). If we develop good relations with Afghanistan (Pashtuns), it can help us with indirect influence in NWFP. These pathans can be used tactically in various parts of Pakistan.

    3. Develop pro-India political/Intelligence assets in Pakistan
    Paksitanis just like Indians are corrupt people. India should buy politicians and intelligence officers who are willing to sell their services. RAW should be reactivated and for next 5 years we should develop internal India within pakistan.

    4. Pro-India propaganda
    In the border areas, India should air anti-pak propganda and bombard pakistani airwaves with Indian programs and propaganda. We should use Bollywood with precision to propogate our points across the border.

    5. Keep Pakistan dry and flooded when desired

    6. Start hunting down pakistani assests in India and start liquidating them circumventing the law. These people should be treated as faceless terrorists. The RAW should monitor facebook, twitter, blogs etc. and start identifying elements like Engrich and Ravi. These people may be Indian or Pakistanis. If they are Indians and in India, they should be tracked down and dealt with. If they are outside India, their travel documents should be identified and they should be put on watchlist. RAW needs to start working again.

    What I mean to say is that there is no need for direct war with Pakistan. We need to activate low-intensity proxy-war against pakistan and at the same time work on minimising pakistan’s penetration in India.

    Our biggest weakness is that we are willing to trust Pakistan(s)..none of which can be trusted. Another weakness is defensive govt. that wants to treat muslims differently. Pakistan is using same muslims for terror purposes knowing fully well that current UPA govt. for the sake of muslim vote bank will not go after their assets wholeheartedly. On 26/11, all the 10 muslim terrorist were wearing Hindu threads to deceive investigating agency. They know fully well that Indian investigating agencies have been briefed by UPA govt. to go after hindus sparing muslims. Once the UPA govt. is out, we will know real truth from Investigating officers working under pressure.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev, Ashish,

    A masterly analysis of India’s strategic interests in our part of the world by Rajeev. I wish the head of India’s RAW reads Vinod Sharma’s blogs and also your post here. If he reads this, I also hope he would deeply think it over and take what can be acted upon.

    Ashish, you are too polite and decent to call a spade even a spoon. I am sure you know most of the answers to your own questions. And your last para is full of practical wisdom for people like MMS and S.M. Krishna, who cannot think beyond their own confines.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Agree with you on most of the points.
    Dont agree with you on point no. 5. That is very brutal, not very different
    from terrorism.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    I also read it and thought.

    The pigs have been fuelled.

    They are on the runway.

    All that is needed is for them to start flying.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pigs only fly in Pakistan. Pakistan is already doing everything that I have mentioned. We just need to reverse it.

    I can understand your pain as your religious inclination makes you support pakistani terrorism.

    Terrorist, we still remember how you mourned on Osama’s death.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,
    In this proxy war, water should be used as strategic weapons. India was overly generous while signing Indus treaty.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rajeev, engrich is the name of ur father.o.k.no need to search send ur mail i will send my photo.chq urself.

    India should work on cutting off funding system for Pakistan.good idea.

    dont forget 49%of our women are enemic.poverty level in india is more than subsahara region.30%of our population eats once in 2 days,qnother 40%dont know when they will eat next.all our cities are ful of slums has biggest brothels in the world.

    so option of peace is better than war.only brhmnst will gain in war though hefty cuts in arms purchase.

    path taken by sonia and manmohan jee is best.americans are sleeping in gardens and streets,could not control a very very small country iraq.now bankrupt.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am your father..Mian apni ammi ki kuch to lehaaj karo. Naa-Muraad Gustakh.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    On 26/11, all the 10 muslim terrorist were wearing Hindu threads to deceive investigating agency
    26/11 was perpetuated by sacred brhmnst of indian intellegece with the help of cia mossad.

    tell me why no enquiry commission was formed to investigate the whole affair.
    why bjp was so much opposed to enquiry.

    rajeev tell me why MK NARAYANAN, brhmn from palghat, our chief security advisor was removed from his post.after this episode.

    why no indian was arrested.

    like other terror attacks in india 26/11 was also carried out by them.with main objective to kill a socialist and honest brhmn KARKARE AND HIS TEAM.they were going to expose real terrorist of india in press confrence next day.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    MK Narayanan is not a Barhmin– he is a Nair (some demographers saysay this group is Sudra, others say they are Kshatriya; but they have never been included in Brahmin “caste”; although Brahmin men marry Nair women)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    This guy is retarded. He blames Brahmins for what happened in Libya and Egypt. Sarka hua hai.

    engrich Reply:

    in libya their satanic cousins are involve.sarkozy is son of a bulgerian jew.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    See what I said..This guy suffers from severe mental problem just like Mohammad.

    engrich Reply:

    gopi, nairs of kerala comes in brhmn category.they are original harijans of kerala.they were shudras but latter taken into brhmn fold.as their mothers were not knowing real identity of their fathers.i am sure u know their history very well..mk nararyan comes in brahim fold not shudra.i am sure.he is very notorious person knew the exact date and place of gunmen arriving from pakistan.kept this to himself.and let 200 civilians die.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev- Good points

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    To much of Pakistan is not good for health. Guys I am changing the subject,

    During the debate on inflation in parliament our PM said,

    12 saal pehle 1 samosa 50 paise mein milta tha or ek mobile call
    8 Rs cost karta tha. Aur aaj 1 mobile call 50 paise ka hai and
    ek samosa Rs 8 ka .

    MAHANGAI BADI NAHIN, BAS IDHAR UDHAR HO GAYI HAI.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    After Parliament washout, Anna Hazare calls for healthy debates

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_after-parliament-washout-anna-hazare-calls-for-healthy-debates_1616479

    The washout of the first two days of the Winter session of Parliament did not escape the attention of Anna Hazare, who said today there should be “healthy” debates between Government and the Opposition.

    Hazare, who has threatened to resume his agitation if the Lokpal Bill is not passed in the current session itself, also noted there are a lot of issues before Parliament.

    “In the Parliament, healthy debates must happen between the Opposition and the Government,” he told reporters at his native village in Maharashtra.

    “New debates and discussions give birth to new ideas. Thorough debates on issues must take place for a strong and effective democracy to function,” the 74-year-old anti-corruption crusader said.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    My impressions of calcutta nov 2011(probably applies to rest of india)
    Massive reduction in beggars, ? NREGA at work. Many used to be from NORTH BIHAR after the floods, nitish kumar must be doing a good job. The traffic signals EVERYWHERE has transformed the traffic flow , which is mind bogglingly smooth.
    Metro has been expanded massively , with a stretch coming to airport. AIRPORT IS A BIG DISSAPPOINTMENT, but i beleive A new one is coming up.
    CORRUPTION IS ALIVE AND KICKING WELL.The tie donning officer in HSBC bank was unbeleivably helpful.Then it transpired THERE IS NOTHING CALLED A FREE LUNCH, forced me to buy some investment schemes (read bribe by back door)
    ALL THE BANKING PROCEEDURE ARE LIGHT YEARS BEHIND UK

    NOW this for the THREE IDIOTS OF THIS BLOG , MISHRA, BALLS BHONDHU, AND VIJAY BUILDER MAFIA who misses no chance to lecture the west on morality.
    The maid in the house i was putting up with was only 17yrs. She has been abandoned by her husband after impregnating the poor girl. She was apparently like a refugee from somalia , skin and bone , till rescued by the people i was putting up with.
    NOW THE HUSBAND WANTS TO DIVORCE ,APPARENTLY HE HAS HIS NEXT WIFE LINED UP

    Also college lecturerurs now earn 50 000 Rs /month , a school teacher gets 30 000.
    Which is fine , BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POOR GIRL AND THEIR LOT , this is classical petit bourgoise .SKIMMIMG OFF THE CREAM

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Vivisection of Pakistan – A Plan by B V Shenoy (CEO of Glamorous Vivisections)

    1. Create a dream in the minds of Baloch’s, which centres around that life will be better outside Pakistan than it is in it. – 60% already done.

    2. By long-term strategic infiltration – create a sense of resentment based on belief that Balochs are not getting there fair share of the country’s resources. 60% already done

    3. Precipitate a large demonstration – supported by eSocialMedia. 10% done

    4. Fund the main demonstrators so that it becomes a sustained agitation. A Bloch Anna Hazare could come in handy to give the movement a face. Work in progress.

    5. Pakistani Army, will undoubtedly crack-down on the demonstrators and substantial casualties will take place. Dead Cert

    6. Jaish-e-Mohamed, will take advantage of the mayhem and will kill a few Shia’s in Karachi. Dead Cert

    7. Shia’s will retaliate and ask for help from Iran. Dead Cert

    8. Iran will arm Baloch’s and India will also supply arms from its strategic position in Afghanistan. 50% Done

    9. Pakistan Army, to divert the attention from this real problem, will put its army on alert and will blame India for meddling in its internal affair. Excuses ready and waiting.

    10. China will create a diversion on India’s Eastern Border, to make it feel insecure. Dead Cert.

    11. Patriotic songs will fill the airways and Religious Fundos will start making fiery speeches and the atmosphere in Pakistan will become more than normally anti-India. Probabale.

    12. Pakistan Army will take over the Government of Pakistan and dismiss the civil administration. Dead Cert.

    13. Pakistan will move a few divisions of soldiers to their Eastern Border, and Bloch’s will cease their protest because they will be asked to respond as patriots. Very likely

    14. India will perceive the threat of war and would in retaliation put its Army in War Footing. Dead Cert.

    15. U.S will ask for restraint. Not as vociferously as it used to, would ask UK to lead a secret Diplomatic mission. Very likely.

    16. After a few weeks of diplomacy, both armies will retreat to peace positions. Dead Cert.

    17. Bloch’s would be left wondering what hit them. Has happened before.

    18. B V Shenoy will say, had Sardar Patel not died before Nehru, and had Indira Gandhi not returned the POWs etc. etc. and had Modi been the loh purush we would have further partitioned Pakistan. Dead Cert

    19. Life would return to normal. What else.

    20. RajeevS will change a few words of this plan and for the 250,000th time ask me to Shut Up, call me; Jihadi, Osam’s Wife, son of a Randi Mother who shagged a white man, Terrorist. I will still ignore him.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Terrorist,
    Shut up…first clarify when did you become a sikh…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pakistani elite has dumped the rest of its populace with nothing but the “book”. Zia Haq and his Mullahs capitalized on this; 80-90% of the people believe in the literal interpretation of the book done by illiterate Mullahs – hatred, killing, kauffr….This keeps them occupied.

    India should not worry about “Indian Muslims’ feelings” in its policy towards Pakistan. It is time to turn the page over. Pakistan behaves foolishly and India behaves sheepishly. It is time for India to be mature, know its position and strength, and act accordingly. To me, that means, protect our borders, develop intelligence and involve appropriately, ignore them for all practical purposes… There may be some uproar from some quarters here; this will sort out the chaff

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    ShoebK

    The literal interpretation of the BOOK is not just restricted to Pakistan.

    Is it?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb,

    You have raised nice points. About India to be mature and knowing
    its strength. The problem is that India does not realises its
    strength and use it accordingly .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Khisiani Billi Khamba Noche…Ravi’s reaction is predictable..He can not take criticism of pakistan but works overtime to criticize India.

    This post of yours clearly demonstrate your feeling for Pakistan and fellow muslims. A terrorist can not hide for very long.

    Pakistanis like Ravi use China factor to scare Indians..It’s an old time tested technique but I’d like to remind pro-pakistani elements that China didn’t come to rescue of pakistan during Kargil Conflict. China will never waste its resources on bankrupt country called Pakistan. In fact there are growing evidences that Pakistan has been training chinese muslims in terrorism.

    Ravi thinks China is a fool and can be double crossed like US.

    All that Ravi has posted can be read (in different styles) on pakistani forums. Now it is becoming even clearer that Ravi is fundoo muslim aligned to Pakistan and its terrorism.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Brilliant.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Breaking news – Congressi troll sleeping with terrorist. :)

    This point has become DEAD CERT..Awaiting the product of this holy union.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    And Ravi will breast-beat in front of the dole office in London and sing:

    hai hai yeh majboori, hai hai yeh majboori
    Mera Pakistan aur yeh doori
    ISI ne kar diya mujhe jeb katri
    kisse bataoon, main lut gaya poori poori

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I see donkey DR SHAN is bak, with baby like suggestions, “ask Pak to hand over Dawood, ask it to halve its army…..” Does this moron think before spouting garbage like this ????
    DR disprate SHAN, u are now 35 years old, still unmarried and vaary lonely??

    Now to business. Ashish and Gopi, welcome back. USA under neocons like bush, condeleeza and rumsfeld were depressingly stupid, like DR Shan. But friends, new wind blows now, Hilary and Barack sound clever, 100 percent I am sure they are working hard to plan denuke Pakstan.
    That ravi, mahesh, manohar laugh at these plans reflects their passive handwringing personalities, I am not criticising here. Big danger calls for clear minds and bold decisive plans. Gopi, you are right. DENUKING PAKISTAN MUST BE TOP PRIORITY OF ISRAEL, EU, USA, INDIA.
    Mishraji, Dr Shah Alam, your wisdoms reqd here. Good blog

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    Nothing, absolutely nothing would delight me more than De Nuking Pakistan.

    The question still remains HOW and if it was possible, then

    Why has it not been done by now.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Some people here will go to any length to defend Pakistan..They need some real education on Balochistan freedom movement. Pl. watch this debate where Balochi students are airing their feeling. Their feelings can be compared with feeling of kashmiri muslims against India.

    Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0cjJGI__gU

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1CyhgZJO3Y&feature=related

    Part 3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3i-ZKv82I&feature=related

    Part 4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs9-YX_i244&feature=related

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    See how anchor gets riled up…Just like Ravi and Engrich.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Why Rs 1.76 lakh crore? CAG Vinod Rai can’t explain

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Why-Rs-1-76-lakh-crore-CAG-Vinod-Rai-can-t-explain/Article1-773198.aspx

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Just a simple answer from you. Just forget about congrees, BJP, Anna CAG etc.

    I want your opinion on :

    was this 2g allocation fair ? Did those companies who got these licences
    made huge amout of money ? If yes, then was part of that money
    shared with people like Raja and Kanimozi again if yes, were MMS, Mrs. Sonia Gandhi and PC aware of this ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Certainly not. Not only unfair, but criminal. AFAIK, the case against A Raja is regarding his fiddling with the submission dates/times and not being transparent to all (and the corruption / bribes / etc. associated with it), and not on the amount that was charged.

    The Prime Minister and others are also answerable (you can use the word guilty if you like) for not cancelling the allotment. The idiotic reason dished out was coalition compulsions – not acceptable. On this count, they should have taken a firm stand and if the government fell, so be it . Oh, many people, including the ones named by you, were certainly aware of it, if not earlier, but certainly soon after.

    The last word on the ‘loss’ has not been said. There is the JPC, PAC and the Supreme Court. We have to wait and see.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Whatever the loss figure, I just hope that culprits are punished. Hopefull this will set a precdent and in future
    politicians will be vary of doing such things.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Now that is a million dollar question. Hardly any politician has ever been convicted – Sukhram seems to an exception.

    Our system of justice stinks. Only the small fries get convicted, the rich, the mighty and the powerful generally go scot free.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Any finaly, as it is my habit — I dont know whether it is good or bad –
    I am again deviating from the subject, will Sachin score a century in this
    match ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Cricket is a game of glorious uncertainties. Your bet is as good as mine.

    I think his spirit is certainly willing, but there is a question whether his body is ready to play ball.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Physicaly I think he is ok. Mentally I am not sure whether he is able to take this huge pressure of expactions
    of his ardent followers.

    AshishC Reply:

    well, Bradman retired with an average of 99.94; why can’t Sachin retire with 99 centuries to his name?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    There is a slight difference. Bradman had anounced his
    retirement before the last inning he was playing in which he
    only required 4 runs to reach that fantastic average of 100,
    but unfortunately he was out at 0. Whereas Sachin has
    not anounced his retirement.

    AshishC Reply:

    :D
    In order to maintain the parallel with Bradman, he could do so..
    Anyway, I am an old fogey- I still worship a certain SMG; his technical correctness against all sorts of bowling and on all sorts of surfaces. I remember SMG and Vengsarkar battling to save (unsuccessfully) a Ranji final against Delhi (Bedi and Goel) on a murderous 5th day Firozeshah Kotla pitch on an extremely hot afternoon.
    Gurudev….

    Anonymous Reply:

    No doubt Gavaskar was a extremely good
    player. One of my favourites .

    Anonymous Reply:

    To score this century Sachih has
    Desire, Determinatation and Dedication
    now only he has to Do it .

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    Sachin may have all the three D’s, no doubt important to a successful career, but if he doesn’t have the most important D (destiny), he will retire at 99.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    Yes, SMG, the legend. A joy to watch. My favourite too.

  • AshishC

    Rajeev, Ravi, Manohar, Gopi, Shenoy, Mohan, Mahesh,
    Let me, instead of “expanding the canvas” as Mahesh wanted to do, stay focused and dig a little deeper into the scenario I painted.
    As many of us, well versed in set theory would know- I created non-intersecting sets to describe the various players in Pakistan- ISI, Military, governments, political parties, fundoos, civil rights activists, courageous journalists, “common men” and so on. Now, consider that these sets intersect each other- many of them do.
    So, there are fundoos in military or ISI and government and in parties as there are liberal voices like Sherry Rahman and Hussain Haqqani.
    But, to me the forces that are really winning in Pakistan are the fundoos- they are expanding their thought influence in sets above. So, we have lawyers showering Salman Taseer’s killer with rose petals and no politician of any significance attending his funeral far less condemn the killings.
    As far as what we should do, I read Rajeev’s prescriptions- for all you and I know, we are probably doing some of those things- except that we are probably not very effective and we obviously are not doing it publicly as a stated aim of public policy.
    But, I still maintain the only long term solution is to focus on strengthening ourselves- economically, socially, politically and militarily so that the Pakistanis start seeing the difference and the world sees overwhelming advantage to favour dealing with India rather than Pakistan.
    Responding specifically to Mahesh, while it is quite possible that India and Pakistan ruling elite might be seeing advantages now in working together and not fall prey to American designs, the basic question still remain- who is in charge and even, who will be in charge, 5 or even 10 years down the line. What will be their ideological bend of mind? Will they, as I fear be largely Madrassa brainwashed, Wahabi tutored? Then, it would not still matter whether the ruling elite is democratically elected or a military regime. I remain pessimistic.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ashish good article full of fact.u have to accept the fact that in muslimcountries ,it is islamic thoughts which will rule the muslim mind.
    salman taseer has no following in pakistan.
    americans should not force democracy in muslim countries.secular modern dictators like ghaddafi and mushsharaf can deliver better result and governance than mullahs.
    madarssa can be finished only through free mass education to poors.will not cost much.we can also modernizemadarssas.european are against madarsas and pathshalas,or our ancient education system.because it is difficult to mentally enslave madarssa going student.
    we should help pakistan and bangladesh to be like us in worldly matters.mi;itarily india cannot defeat either pakistan or bangladesh.we are ssing the end of america its ally in iraq afghanistan now in libya.hence it is better to be close with caution and make money through trade.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    You are right when you say who will be in charge after 5 or ten years down the line. The problem is that our government does not have long term solution
    to Pakistan problem. When I say cease all relations with Pakistan that does
    not mean that its effect will be immidiate. India should use it clout and
    force other countries also to stop dealing with terrorist Pakistan nation.
    India should alway focus on terrorism arising from Pakistan soil when
    speaking to other nations. Even in sports — like cricket — India should
    force other nations to boycott Pakistan. England did the same with South Africa in late sixties. Inviting Gilani at Mohali and calling him man of peace
    during ay Saarc meeting wont help .Ulitmate goal of India should be to make world
    realise that Pakistan is a country which exports terrorism and it should
    officaly be declared as a terrorist nation. It will take time but ultimate outcome will be good for us.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I was looking forward to Usman giving his take on your posts. I hope he will still do it.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The print edition of Hindustan Times dated 24-11-2011 has carried this news item.

    `We were trained to hate India, but this is changing’
    ———————————————————————-

    We were trained to hate India in many ways. But our approach towards India has changed drastically: These were the words echoed by four Pakistani students from Lahore and Islamabad who are in India for a seminar organised by the sociology department of Mumbai University.

    The four students -Sidra Tariq, 27, Saman Fayyaz, 21, Sitara Jabeen, 27, and Hina Anwar Ali, 28, accompanied by assistant professor Arshi Saleem Hashmi -flew down to Mumbai for the seminar titled New hope for a new Beginning.

    Organised by Sisters Against Violent Extremism (SAVE) and was held at the university’s Kalina campus on Tuesday.
    Apart from the students from Pakistan, several educationists and sociologists made presentations at the seminar.

    These four students were selected for the programme because of their research work on Indo-Pak ties.

    “When history was distorted the sense of nationalism very high, it was natural for a country like ours with a complex domestic, national and international politics to think about India in a certain way. But the perception has changed quite a lot,“ said Jabeen who is studying peace and conflict studies at the National Defence University in Islamabad and has visited India for the first time.

    The students, who arrived in India on Monday, are on a fourday trip. They might visit 26/11 terror attack sites such as the Gateway of India and Taj Palace Hotel. Students also said that they understood what terrorism was. “We know terrorism and its impacts. We, too, are victims of the disease of terrorism.

    The situation in our country is not any different from that of India,“ added Sitara.

    Academicians felt that involving women and youth might bring in better dialogue between the two nations. Assistant professor, Arshi Saleem Hashmi, from the National Defence University said, “I often ask my students to think from the Indian perspective. It makes a lot of difference. Most of the students have different way of looking at the India and Pakistan.“

    Mumbai University is now working on creating an annual exchange programme between both universities.

    But while the students from Pakistan enjoyed everything about India and Indian hospitality, they were surprised by how little the Indian youth knew about Pakistan.

    “In Pakistan, we get to know about India through television as we get many Indian channels but in India why is no Pakistani channel aired so that Indians learn about our culture?“ said Tariq, a research student at the Institute of Regional Studies in Islamabad.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Manohar,
    I do not doubt such people exist- they may even be growing in number.
    But, it’s about marketshare; fundoos have it and they are growing.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I agree. See the other response, where I have stated it will take ages for such people to have the upper hand. Till then extremists and fundamentalists forces will hold sway.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    “But, I still maintain the only long term solution is to focus on strengthening ourselves- economically, socially, politically and militarily so that the Pakistanis start seeing the difference and the world sees overwhelming advantage to favour dealing with India rather than Pakistan”.

    Which we have been doing for a long time plus continue to do so, irrespective of the situation across the border and the world prefers to deal with us. There is no doubt.
    —————

    To bring about a complete turnaround in the mindset ( after been brainwashed for decades) will take ages.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    ashish ravi shan and vinodjee,

    NATO’s Great Victory
    Destroying Libya’s Welfare State
    by DAN KOVALIK

    November 23, 2011

    The other day, I was listening to the voice of “liberal” radio, NPR, and was surprised to hear its bizarre, and yet quite candid, report on what it apparently views to be one of the more hideous aspects of the Gadhafi years – a modern welfare state which looked after working people.

    Thus, without tongue in cheek, or any note of irony, NPR, in its November 14 report, entitled, “Libya’s Economy Faces New Tests After Gadhafi Era,” explained that the biggest impediment to the new economic era is the Libyan worker who was simply too coddled by Gaddafi.

    NPR thus cited a 2007 book on the Libyan economy by authors Otman and Karlberg who called “the Libyan worker under Gadhafi ‘one of the most protected in the world,’” receiving job tenure, government subsidies of around $800 a month for the average Libyan household, and gasoline at a mere 60 cents a gallon. NPR, citing the same book, explained that workers now freed from such a tyrannical world by NATO bombs, have been left with a “’subsidy mentality’” and a “’job-for-life outlook which has ill-prepared Libyans for the more aggressive and cutthroat world of competition.’”

    However, lucky for them, Libya’s new acting finance and oil chief, Ali Tarhouni, is resolved to turn this situation around by disciplining Libya’s workers through “smaller government and a larger and freer private sector.” NPR describes that, Tarhouni, being the realist that he is, “has no illusions that it will be an easy transition.” The report thus quotes Tarhouni who states that, “[t]he challenge here is that this is a welfare state,” with Libyan workers expecting too much from their government. I’m sure Tarhouni, with Western support, will show these workers a thing a two.

    Of course, had NPR gone further, they could have also explained that, according to the statistics of the United Nations Development Programme, Libya, at the time of the NATO invasion, had the highest human development indicators (which measure levels of health, education and income) in all of Africa, with a life expectancy of 74.5; undernourishment of the population at under 5%; and adult literacy at over 88%. Libya was in fact ranked 53 in the world out of 169 comparable countries, ranking, for example, above Turkey, (post-Soviet) Russia, Brazil and Costa Rica in terms of the human development indicators.

    For NATO, its corporate allies, and its media mouthpieces, such prosperity for workers simply will not do. We live in a world where austerity for the workers is the order of the day – for those in Libya, Greece, Italy, Spain, Great Britain and the U.S. as well. And those who stand in the way of such austerity measures, whether they be a nationalist government in Libya, Communists in Greece or Occupiers in the U.S., must be dealt with accordingly – by violent reaction.

    Thankfully, once in a while, we have news sources such as NPR which will, albeit quite unwittingly and clumsily, tell us that this is indeed what our military and police actions are all about. You just have to be reading and listening between the lines to find out

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It looks like Libya may turn out to be a success because they have to build institutions from scratch. The Egypt issue seems to be that the “institutions” under Mubarek survive, and they survive the old way. Hence the second round of protests at the Tahrir Square. The way they have allocated the electoral seats guarantee military to be supreme

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    americans entered philipines to liberate them.converted the whole nation into brothel.
    when british came to india we were economic superpower.when they left
    we were beggars.

    parasitic european companies have been asked to rush libya and loot it
    in the name of constructio.in 80s they looted entire wealth of middle east.
    they brought khomeini to iran.
    al qaida flags are flying on the goverment buildimgs of tripoli and benghazi.
    islam will be used as an instrument of suppression and keep the peopl backward.
    americans or europeans only loot whereevr they go.also they divide societies and spread hatred.
    rss is local agent of these international divisive forces in india.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ==============================================================
    ~~ AS WARNED ~~ Imran the danger is here! ~~ MY NEW WARNING ~~ our older generation of press and media people would build up this Jinnah ~~~
    =============================================================

    A major reason for the arrival of Imran Khan as a serious candidate for the Pakistani PM’s post is the clout he carries in the Indian media and the tripe he gets away with.
    When he was down and out– and in isolation after jemima ditched him for Hugh Grant(same guy arrested in US for fellatio in public places) and other boys– it was NDTV and India Today who rescued him by getting him inot the public eye again.

    His seeming charm over Indian media makes the Pakistanis feel that here is a guy who will handle the Indians like kids– as he did in those Sharjah matches fixed by Dawood Ibrahim.

    A few weeks back when I said that we have a new Jinnah at coming to the helm of Pakistan– some fo the bloggers here scoffed.

    Well dont scoff now. Like Benazir who sweet talked our Press and media into saluting her and then launching the Kashmir insurgency, Imran Khan with his fake fondness of secularism of the Iqbal variety and real fondness of Taliban may try to rabble rouse passions in some disaffected Indian Muslims and Kashmiris. I hope the Indian Muslims are smart enough to see thru his Talibani game…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kumar Khappaonda

    I hope the Indian Muslims are smart enough to see thru his Talibani game…

    Rest assured they and I can not only see through the Talibani game, we are also able to see through your your FUNDO game.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi Autar Engrich,

    Dear four headed hijra, the Indian Muslims have seen thru your game fo pushing Pakshitstani agenda by donning various garbs. Shoeb’s posting just shows that. You would do more service by standing in ur toilet/dole que silently, rather than push in a jehadi agenda.

    Remember UK has started deporting the Pakistani and Waziristan residents back home….

    Dont want to see you on BBC, standing in a dole que in Muridke, outside the Taliban office !!!

    Ha haha !!!! HAHAHAAHA

    You made my evening!! Ab iss khushi mein jaam ki tayaari !!

    HAHAHHAH HAHHA !!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    headed hijra

    vijay u are an idiot and son of a *****.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Engirch autar Ravi

    Dear four headed hijra, you should join kindergarten in a “normal” NCERT or a Christain missionary school to detox you of all the poison injected in your feeble suicide bombing mind !!

    HAHAHHA !

    engrich Reply:

    u are an stupid .i dont need ur advise.

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kahppaonda.

    आप ही पाद मारना और आप ही हँसना आप की पुरानी आदत है

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi autar Engrich

    Dear four headed hijra… Ur language is getting stinky… as u have run out of ideas !!! Shame shame !!!

    But u do make my day !! A failure in UK is coming up with all sorts of advise to Indians to tackle terror… which he supports like any duplicitious pak-shit-stani !! Wah WAH WAH !!

    engrich Reply:

    kashmir problem is water problem,no pakistani leader will leave this.they will go to war if needed.it has peoples support.nothing to do with religion.

    talibans are defending their tribal way of life against joint operation of americans and ****-elite class(mainly punjabi) .

    in india muslims are mainly ghetto dweller ,they want goverment support and help to improve their life.till they hav hope they will not become terrorist.

    indian tribals are doing the same under the banner of moism.they feel that their land propety and way of life is aendangered by indian urbans.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Engrich autar Ravi

    Did they teach u all this **** at the LeT school of suicide bombing OR did your retarded teacher do the damage ???

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    let is only active in kashmir.suicide bombing as a weapon was also used by lankan tamil tigers.suicide bombers are coming from every community ,subject to local conditions.

    why u have no sympathy for the victim of drone attacks.ur heart weeps for qadiyanis not for victims of gujrat riot who are still lving
    in camps and descriminated in every walk of life.

    why this double standards.

    nobody has to teach me.i am seeing all these in my surroundings.
    l tribe all over world are under attack by zoinists,while in india by hindu zoinists.nobody from waziristan ever hurted any american
    while they are killing 30-40 people daily.same their satanic cousins are doing in india tribe.
    slogan that hinduism should not have castes is part of this game.

  • Anonymous

    Mohan

    In another thread we were discussing Anna Hazare. Surely you have read this too.

    Anna Hazare mocks attack on Pawar, then condemns it

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Maharashtra/Anna-Hazare-mocks-attack-on-Pawar-then-condemns-it/Article1-773480.aspx

    Need one say anything more.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    manohar

    Shard Pawar is the most corrupt politician India has ever seen — he has been stealing the country for three plus decades.

    People, like the young man who beat him up, will arise against the political class.

    Let us not find fault with HAzare for mocking the attack…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    yes, he should not have mocked — but people are on the edge.. these outbursts are our jasmine revolution!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    corruption is project brhmnsm.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Sorry do not agree.

    Anna Hazare who practices Talibani methods to enforce his morals/lifestyle on others in his village and you suggest that let us not mock him. For this barbaric practice, he has been roundly condemned by all parties including the BJP and all right thinking people.

    Now he comes up with such a reaction, never mind he tried to wriggle out of it later. Let me categorically say – shame on him. People call him Gandhian – what an irony.

    It does not take long for a person to lose credibility.

    Can we then conclude you approve of Anna Hazare’s methods and the person who slapped Sharad Pawar?

    He may be a hero to you, not to me. The only aspect of his I admire was the development and watershed management he undertook in his village.

    We do not need any self appointed guardians and moral policemen.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,
    We did not see you going ballistic when Digvijay kicked a person at Congress HQ and later in MP, chased few youths and slapped them.

    Is this the Congressi logic that you condemn one act and then condone the same act when it suits you?

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Manohar

    Some time back u celeberated the attacks on Kejriwal and other anti corruption members by saying that they are now facing opposition :)

    Just becasue ur hero is attacked u should not change the tune.

    All attacks of this nature are bad. This guy as well as the motivated attackers on Kejriwal shud be put in the same cell…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Can you point out where and when I have stated I celebrated/approved of physical assaults on anyone?

    I agree all those who take the laws into their own hands should be punished severely.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    But you kept your mouth shut when Rahul’s henchmen attacked SP workers at Phulpur.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I have stopped responding to your posts, because any engagement with you degenerates into abusive responses from you., more often than not.

    You may draw any conclusions on account of my non-responses to your posts, I do not give a damn.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I have stopped interacting with you, as you always more often than not degenerates the exchange in abuse and name calling. Do not waste your time.

    You may draw your own conclusions for not answering responding, I do not give damn. Moreover, have a look at your self – on which events you choose or not choose to go ballistic.

  • Anonymous

    Angry youth slaps Sharad Pawar,
    who belongs to the congress pariwar

    was the youth so beqaraar?
    kya tha uske sir par sawar?

    Aur kitna karen intezaar?
    Kab hoga khatam inka darbar?

    Kyon ho gaye hum itna lachaar?
    Kab phir se gaa sakenge, jhoom baraabar…..?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    shenoy when somebody threw shoe on bush ,the following was written enjoy,

    pyara joota,

    hathiyaaroN ka kaam kare hai

    chunchal shoKh jiyala joota

    paaooN ka nazuk sa pahnaawaa

    bun gaya neezah-bhaalaa joota

    jhuk hi gaya ik zalim ka sir

    jhuk ke sair se nikala joota

    karwaT lee tareeKh ne jis dum

    haath meN tou ne saNbhala joota

    manzil se katra ker guzra

    bhaTak gaya matwala joota

    likh ke a’jaaiib-ghar men rakh dou

    Zeidi ka Bush-wala joota

    Zeidi! tujh ko Khaliq baKhshey

    Doosra umdah-aa’la joota

    Jawaid is duniya meN koyee

    Hai aisa gun-waala joota ?

    ———— ——— –

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    B V Shenoy

    You claimed that you too were an ace debaser.

    How right you are.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I think use of violence in a democracy is absolutely wrong. Many people are praising the person who slapped Pawar but I want to ask those people, how is this violence any different from-
    1. Qadri killing Salman Taseer and pakistanis treating him like a hero.
    2. Congress leaders Jitin Prasad and Pramod Tiwari kicking and slapping SP workers at phulpur.

    Use of violence against fellow-countrymen is wrong.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    vinod jee ,

    zardari is very shrewd and intellegent man.memogate is a game to postpone forthcoming election.
    moreover he has done nothing new ,nearly all **** president compromise sovereignity of their nation to remain in power.bhutoo wanted to gift gwadar port to americans.

    jaswant jee is right in his analysis,shaking hands with america is kiss of death.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Ashish,
    Thanks for responding. However, I must say , we are going to “spar” here.
    Here is my pointwise response.
    BTW, I have exercised personal liberty in choosing the points for responding that me feels are significant enough. If you feel they have been yanked out of context pease feel free to point out.
    So, here we go….

    “But, to me the forces that are really winning in Pakistan are the fundoos- they are expanding their thought influence in sets above. So, we have lawyers showering Salman Taseer’s killer with rose petals and no politician of any significance attending his funeral far less condemn the killings.”
    Honestly, I doubt. In Pakistani Siyasat it is the military that enjoys out and out upper hand. That it finds itself in direct confrontation with fundoos on its own land is good enough rebuke against this point.

    “But, I still maintain the only long term solution is to focus on strengthening ourselves- economically, socially, politically and militarily so that the Pakistanis start seeing the difference and the world sees overwhelming advantage to favour dealing with India rather than Pakistan.”
    Let me guess here. The underpinning thought has been a comparison between us and Pakistan, right ? Honestly, tell me – when has such comparison been made in form of choice – except for cajoling both the colonial cousins when they got dangerously close in adversarial terms ?
    Me thinks, let us just be us and get better and better from the point what we are currently. That if the Pakistanis aspire to be us is best left to them.
    And one more thing, let us stay prepared for armed confrontation and yet try minimising the probability at every given opportunity.
    Also, is there any real reason why us and Pakistanis cannot exchange oriental porn and spices ? Perhaps us blog commentators could use some experience from the Indian medical fraternity that is silently doing business with needy Pakistani citizens offering them some specialized cure.

    “Responding specifically to Mahesh, while it is quite possible that India and Pakistan ruling elite might be seeing advantages now in working together and not fall prey to American designs, the basic question still remain- who is in charge and even, who will be in charge, 5 or even 10 years down the line. What will be their ideological bend of mind? Will they, as I fear be largely Madrassa brainwashed, Wahabi tutored? Then, it would not still matter whether the ruling elite is democratically elected or a military regime. I remain pessimistic. ”
    Honestly, me thinks it is the Pakistani army that is still going to be in charge for quite some time. Let us live and adjust with it, hoping sometime in future there will be a civilan dominated polity. Where I differ is in your assessment about Pakistani military being “wahabised” . They are dictatorial – with a vice like grip on the polity but they are not fundoos beyond the token gestures and lip service.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    One point I would like to add here.

    Is Fundamentalist Islam, army’s ideology, or

    Is army politically exploiting those who independenatly hold the Fundo ideology, or

    A bit of both, in other words some people with Fundo ideology have joined the army and are exercising their influence from the inside, and conversly the army co-opts fundo’s to carry out its dirty work in a deniable way.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ravi
    What I read is that there is a large number of fundos at the NCOlevel; and a considerable number at the officer corps level. The feudal landlord family members from the Punjab region used to dominate the army officer ranks pre Zia. The report is that the army is more “democratized” now; with many “landless” people both in the “jawan” side and junior officer ranks. So,t o a great extent, generals are hostages to the troops~!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    ShoebK

    That is probably true.

    Zia allowed known Islamists into the Army.

    This was then curbed, but not very successfully.

    The Pakistan Army is trying to reduce uniformed Islamists from its midst and increasingly relying more on the Civilian Islamists.

    The issue always was and remains even now that Army is not in FULL control of the Civilian Islamist’s agenda, and their aim is to initially power share and then to take full control.

    AshishC Reply:

    In 10 years time, those at the junior officer level will be commanding brigades or platoons.. and in 20 years, you will have a GOC-in-C, who will be a fundoo.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    That is possible but unlikely.

    My reason for such optimism is that these radicals will be expunged from the Army before they reach Brigadier level.

    That is already happening, and had started by Musharaf.

    AshishC Reply:

    That is already happening, and had been started by Musharaf.
    That is what Musharraf would have all the Brits and Americans believe.

    AshishC Reply:

    Spar away :)
    I think you are still thinking in terms of watertight compartments-
    set A( intersection)Set B = Null. That is not true.
    The secular nature of Army in India and Pakistan is a British legacy- it has been considerably diluted. The Pakistan Army grows out of the same society that is turning to a puritanical version of Islam in a big way.
    This Islamization is not a passing phase- and it is not a fringe force. If it were, how was it that no one from any political party, government or army thought it fit to attend Salman Taseer’s funeral? How is it that no voice of condemnation was heard from the “establishment”?
    Silence can turn into acquiescence and acquiescence can easily turn into support. Remember Germany under Hitler?

    I am not ever suggesting an equivalence between India and Pakistan. Our development goals are independent of Pakistan as well. I am only suggesting that if we single-mindedly focus on our development in all spheres- and that could and perhaps would- lead to our outdistancing Pakistan by huge degrees- so much so, that an average Pakistani will start questioning if their system does indeed deliver.
    We need not compare ourselves- but the Pakistanis always will, compare themselves against India. Like an average Malaysian compares their life with those across the Johor Straits :)
    Also, if we are really able to outdistance Pakistan to even half the extent that US has outdistanced itself from Mexico, we get to dictate terms- in our dealings with other nations; especially when we have contentious issues on the table. Money talks, power talks- we can bring that to bear on third-parties to lean on Pakistan,
    Finally, I agree the Pakistan Army will be in charge- 5 or even 10 years down the road. But, it will not be a secular Army, largely recruited from the landowning elite- it will be a wahabized, Madrassa educated force (see Shoeb’s post below).

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I hope that you guys do not mind if I add my T’penny worth to this debate.

    The Secular Nature of British India’s Army – This army was organised around Religion, Region, Function, and even Tribal, divisions. Sikh, Guards, Rajputana, Gurkha, are example of each kind. These divisions were at once secular and religious. The Sikh regiment had ordained priests that were enrolled to perform priestly function; all other Sikh practices were followed. However, this only applied to Other Ranks, in order to stop revolts and mutinies the Officers were always from mixed backgrounds.

    The major point to note is that the country they defended was secular so their general outlook is secular.

    Islamisation of PAK army was a deliberate plan and a political act. Its main function was to attract Saudi money and to add extra effervescence to existing anti Hindu/India fervour.

    Simultaneously, the Saudi money was being used to radicalise the Pakistan Civil Society, and the Madrassa’s – which have been centuries old presence in Pakistan – were the instrument of this radicalisation.

    So Ashish, my view is that both the society as well as the Pakistan Army have been deliberately hijacked by Islamist forces. This is N O T their natural state, it is an artificial one. The natural state of Pakistan Society is not much different from, say the Indian Muslim society. This element of Pakistan society is under duress and is living in a state of intimidation and therefore attendance to public funerals etc is sparse. However, from the security of TV channels, News Papers articles, etc these peoples views can still be heard.

    The Germany that was under Hitler did not survive, neither did Serbia under Milosovich, Spain under Franco, Cambodia under Kahmer Rouge.

    This islamisation was imposed on all Muslim peoples of the middle east, North Africa, and Central Asia, as well. Here the reversal of trend is visible. The pendulum is beginning to swing the other way. It may not swing back to its original peaceful position or over swing to a new Western Democratic position, but it is swinging back. Not withstanding what is happening in Afghanistan and the Frontier provinces.

    We are single mindedly focused on our development and most Indian’s treat Pakistan as anything more than a minor irritant.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    “I hope that you guys do not mind if I add my T’penny worth to this debate.”

    A jihadi on British dole giving his “opinion” which is not worth even a PENNY.

    Ravi Reply:

    Even then it is of greater worth than a Hindu Fundo TWAT like you

    Anonymous Reply:

    Fake Ravi/Asli jihadi,

    you are writing all this trash because you are the guest of Vinod Sharma, who has been, rather inexplicably, too generous and tolerant to your rants about the 5000 rapes of dlait women by caste Hindus.

    Your sniping and cribbing, besides spewing jihadi venom against Hindus and India, is too well known for repetition.

    You are, as is also well known, a hanger on on the British system of doles. Be happy there rather than posting incessant jihadi nonsense.

    Ravi Reply:

    :)

    engrich Reply:

    This islamisation was imposed on all Muslim peoples

    it was not imposed,it is public response to loot of their wealth by americans and allies in pakistan.

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    how did you manage to write a long post with me agreeing with it almost 90%? :)
    Just two questions:
    1. How do you know that the Islamisation in Pakistan is “swinging back”?
    2. About your last sentence; isn’t that more of a wish rather than fact on the ground?

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish.

    I am not afraid of agreeing with you, or even dis-agreeing. Either way I enjoy our discussions.

    Most common Pakistani’s are no different than you and I. They are being manipulated and they have become wise to it.

    About my last sentence, do you believe that Indian’s are Pakistan centered. Not really they are food centered with an occassional passing thought given to Pakistan.

    It is the chattering classes who stand around discussing Pakistan, the rest, as you wish, focus on earning a crust and making India Mahan.

    engrich Reply:

    ashish wwhat u have written about pak army is right ,but dont forget that purohit and his gang caught in bomb planting on various places are also from indian army.their aim was to convert india into brhmn rashtra based on manu lawsthey had training camps at 53 places..they are far more organized and determined in their aim than pak
    generals..,who never called for islamization of pak army.99%of alqaida and islamic terrorists were killed and captured by them.

    salman taseer or asif zardari are most hated personalities of pak society.they are almost social outcaste.
    they are actually traitors.he was governor ,why he interferred in politics
    just to please americans.pak army is very much divided on linguistic and
    regional lines.pathan soldiers hate their punjabi officers.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,
    For some reasons the HT’s IT has been behaving funny. It is indeed interesting to see my own comment removed and marked as blank Guest comment.
    Will respond to you in a short while (perhaps in a day or so).

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    I can assure you that much as I hate disqus, I did not inject this worm that seems to be selectively gobbling up your posts..
    Down with Disqus…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish ,
    We are looking at things differently. While you see progression of radicalised Pakistani society into its military establishment – I am still unable to find enough events supporting this argument. On the contrary, the jehadis appear to be increasingly targetting military establishment , something that I find is strong evidence in the favour of my argument.
    Another thing – Shoeb’s link and the thrust of argument actually hints of reversal in trend within Pakistani military establishment making it more broad-based and perhaps even less “punjabi feudal” in the longer run.
    Maybe, we may want to agree on dis-agreement.
    p.s. : On your other points – will respond later. Had a hard work day and a equally hard “bitter” weekend. ;-)

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Sharmaji,
    A politician was slapped today . The anger and agitation writ large on the face of person performing this act was immensely instructive for those who are trying to hear the rumblings. We can go about our discussion on what is voilent and what is justified, but the average reaction among commoners has been – ” buss , itna hi ” ? Some comments – that vied for blooed and total elimination of the politician – in the comments section of this same newspaper carrying the news made even more spine chilling reading. These are the people who have access and means to use Internet. What worries me is the utter lack of credibility of political class combined with a lack of rational political movement chanelling this anger holds significant possibility for anarchy. Much of which could be fascist in nature.
    To paraphrase my emotion – let me quote the protagonist of hindi movie “shool” , the protagonist being enacted by Manoj Vajpayee …..
    “Kuch bhayankar ghat raha hai haya…..”

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    Violence happens when the perpetrator has lost the argument.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Not only physical violence, it is also violence of language – abuse and attempts to shoot the messenger, when there is no counter argument(s) to rebut the point(s) raised.

    There is ample evidence of it on this blog itself day and in and day out.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi and Manohar,
    You are pre-supposing a discussion between the ruling class and those affected by its actions (or inactions). There is no discussion happening between the masses and established polity.
    Sheer helplessness is what is manifesting itself. My only fear is – sans a progressive resistance – it will manifest itself in a perverted and reactionary way.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    1) The picture is that the ruling class is seen not being receptive to the aspirations of the people. This has been made worse by series of scams telescoped in a shorter time frame. As a result, corrective action being taken by the present dispensation is being ignored. Every member of the ruling elite is considered corrupt to the core. The irony is that we elect them and would probably go and will vote them back to power the next time around.

    The Licence-permit raj, thereby mai-baap sarkaar, did not yield the desired results until 80s, hence the development model of free and market economy has been adopted since early 90s and one can say it is still work-in-progress. However, vested interests mainly in the ruling elite on behalf of the other are not allowing the freedom this model requires – opposing every move and policy decision, which are meant to dismantle the barriers and remove the constraints of the previous model.

    The two recent examples – opposing the hikes in petrol prices and opposition to 51% FDi in retail. In the re-telecast of the Walk The Talk, Rattan Tata said it is OK to have 100% FDI for manufacturing hats and diapers, but not in sectors that are more criticial (plus more capital intensive) to the economy.

    If the vested interests (some opposing for the sake of opposing and some opposing as it fashionable to to do so in the ‘interest’ of the aam-aadmi) were to have their way, we would be reverting back to the bad old days of the Licence-permit raj. The reasons given that it would destroy our economy, blah, blah, blah.

    Check the figures –
    Indian economy – US$ 2 trillion,
    Retail Sector US$ 450 billion.
    FDI in retail – $ 15 – 20 billion (spread over 4 to 5 years).

    The question will can US$ 20 billion treasure chest shake a sector of the size of US$ 450 billion. Logic and sound economics were never the strong points of the vested interests. No wonder, our country takes one step forward and two steps backward.

    The earlier model led to series of subsidies and the people (mostly those who did not need them in the first place) seem to have got used to getting goods and services at a ‘discount’. Now they do not wish these freebies to go and also wish to benefit from the bonanzas that are supposed to flow from our present model. You cannot have the best of the both the worlds – that is a dichotomy. Hence the protests and deviant behavoiur.

    2) Deviant behavoiur is seen in all societies, as there are crackpots whatever be the state of affairs. They and others are looking quick-fix solutions to the massive problem this country faces.

    There was a very good opportunity to establish communication (apparently lacking) between the ruling class and the ruled, when Anna Hazare and his team began their movement against corruption. The sad fact is that they burnt the bridges by choosing to confront from the outset.

  • Anonymous

    Mohan

    As you know, he did not get his century of centuries. Better luck in the one-dayers.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ==============================================================
    ~~~ WHY ZARDARI SHOULD NOT BE UNDERATED ~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————

    Yesterday night at a party a friend made a very apt observation. That we should not underate Zardari. Not question his intellect, despite the fake college degree.

    Why?

    “You see,” my friend said, “Zardari was able to handle a woman as formidable as Benazir with her lakh nakhras and also produce children….

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    My dog ate my memo by Nadeem Paracha

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/22/my-dog-ate-my-memo.html

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Looks like the Disqus plugin has gone haywire. Messages at random are missing.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manhoar

    What made you think that they are being removed randomly.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    To me, it seems. the Disqus programme is not working correctly.
    No one seems to be removing them.

    For example, a long post by Mahesh, to which Ashish had replied, has been removed just below here. Why would anyone remove it, there was nothing objectionable in it?

    In such cases, the poster’s name has been replaced by the word Guest.

    Perhaps, Vinodji will ask his IT department to look into it.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi and Manohar,
    You are pre-supposing a discussion between the ruling class and those affected by its actions (or inactions). There is no discussion happening between the masses and established polity.
    Sheer helplessness is what is manifesting itself. My only fear is – sans a progressive resistance – it will manifest itself in a perverted and reactionary way.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi

    Your favourite line – the BJP is working overtime to lose the next elections.
    ———-

    Ready to torch Walmart and go to jail: Uma Bharti

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Lucknow/Ready-to-torch-Walmart-and-go-to-jail-Uma-Bharti/Article1-773954.aspx

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    They do!

    They better recruit a diff type of ‘firebrand” than tHese dumbwits

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Now non BJP too

    FDI in retail will benefit Rahul’s ‘foreign friends’: Mayawati

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    So kishenji is dead
    some politicians like CPI Dasgupta have said his killing was wrong, as have some human rights orgs
    I am waiting to see if Arundati Roy protests
    If she does then another sardarji will be in the news for slapping her.
    MYSELF
    In memory of the hundreds who died brutal deaths at hands of Maoist terrorists
    Note I did not say just Maoists
    ANYONE DISAGREE WITH ME, sunayi nahin diya, zaraa oonchaa boliye

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    I am finding it difficult to agree or dis-agree, because there is no arguement in your post.

    All I can read into this is celeberation of some one’s death. And

    Reactionary opposition to a liberal writer and political activist.

    If you want a discussion, then support your post with an arguement as to why you take the position you do.

    Let the abuse begin.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    prajee dont understand the problem.they are fighting for the their right on the land,they are living from thousands of years.goverment is talking of development ,avoiding this issue.same the pakistanis are doing with baloch.killing of a leader will not solve the problem.we have to be generous,they have point.on many occasion anurdhati roy is correct.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Balwinderji,
    So, you are willing to slap “Arundati” Roy (BTW, she is Arundhati Roy and not “Arundati” Roy – next time feel free to self moderate your post drunk posts) for raising questions about nature of Kishenji’s killing.
    Why so ? May I please request you with your reasoning , sir ? Oh, never mind if it is too much of an effort. What to do we are like that only sir. Us desis – they shoot their mouth first and think later.
    BTW, the sardar that slapped Mr. Pawar had a strong enough reasoning – right or wrong his actions maybe . He even had guts to face the consequences. Sir, is that what you are willing to ? Face the consequences of slapping a person ? Litigations and all. Or just that you thought that the generally reactionary climate prevalent when you left this soil – still persists. So much so that it could carry your purported actions along.
    But sir, let me tell you something. The law of the land has moved on. Slapping a person in public – even if it were somebody as tin-pot and in-consequential as me – is not so that easy sir. We have careerist lawyers here too , sir. And they too know a thing or two about constitutional rights, sir.
    So, sir, careful and look before you step – some banana pills may be lying on the way sir.
    p.s. for those with propensity for seriousness :
    The execution of top leadership is “probably” going to see the Maoists splitting between two factions. One, that strives to push for militarist form of struggle , other that wants to go overground and more publicly propogandist.
    Another possibility , the org. will lye low for some time and build to strike back. In either case, there is very less probability of Maoists resorting to terror attacks on civilian targets.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    Not bad, not bad at all particularly for a man who has had a hard day. Hope your week-end is relaxing.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ashish — agree 100 percet

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    Gujarat…..but it has nothing to do with Modi!Prashant Panday
    22 October 2011, 10:00 AM IST

    Yahoo Bookmarks Blogmarks
    Del.icio.us ApnaCircle
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    100
    The National Highways Authority of India (NHAI) announced yesterday that a new expressway would be built from Mumbai to Vadodara by 2015. The cost of the expressway is estimated at some Rs 7500 crores. The construction of this expressway will make the entire distance between the two mega cities of Mumbai and Ahmedabad covered by expressways. When built, the time taken to travel between these two cities will reduce to just five hours. If the Mumbai-Pune expressway is taken into account, there would be an expressway all the way from Pune to Ahmedabad. Looking into the future, when Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor gets completed, there would be an expressway from Delhi to Mumbai and onwards to Pune. No doubt, in a few years time, when Modi goes back for his election campaign, he will claim credit for the new expressway in his state. But then, what’s new about Modi claiming credit even when it’s not due!

    When I wrote about the sham that Modi spins about his state’s development under his rule, many of his supporters argued that the roads in Gujarat were the best. Indeed they are! And (unfortunately for Modi) have always been! I remember living in Ahmedabad twenty years back and traveling often to Vadodara and sometimes to Surat (southwards from Ahmedabad) – the road journeys used to be delightful. I remember going on holidays to Udaipur (northwards) – again it used to be a fab driving experience. I remember going to the other side (westwards) – Rajkot – and the 200 kms long distance could be covered in a mere three hours even then. Gujarat has always had good highways – but all of them have been built by the Central government – not by the state. Even the smaller roads that fall under the state governments have always been good in Gujarat – the road between Ahmedabad and Mahudi being an example.

    Many others commented on the record of the NDA with regard to construction of roads. It was indeed Vajpayee who started the Quadrilateral Highways project – linking the four major cities of Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata. Without doubt, that was an ambitious project. Again, Modi benefited as the highways went right through his state. For the record, the NDA government built about 8900 kms of national roadways in their six years of government. The UPA-1 built about 17000 kms and the UPA-2 will most likely build about 20000 kms by the time its tenure is over (going by the projects already awarded and likely to be awarded in the next few months). So unfortunately (again), the data does not bear out the claim made by many NDA supporters that the NDA built more roads than the UPA. Yes, their claim that Vajpayee started it all off is true.

    Another damning report for Gujarat is the one of the economic data released recently by RBI. It’s actually the same data that I referenced when I wrote my post titled “Modi’s growth story is a sham…..” on Sept 17th – which said that Modi’s claims of a high growth record were all a sham. The RBI has put out stats (as reported in the TOI) which show that while the state GDP of Gujarat has increased by 79% in the last five years, the national average has also been about the same. So all the rubbish that Gujarat is growing faster than the national average is just that – rubbish. Also, the data shows that states like Bihar, Chhatisgarh, West Bengal, Uttarakhand and Punjab (all non-Congress states by the way) are doing much better than Gujarat and the national average. Also noteworthy is UP – given its high base of GDP. Of course, there are many Congress ruled states also – most notably the large states of Maharashtra and AP – which are doing better than the national average. If Modi supporters find the RBI data wonky, then god save them!

    The Human Development Report released by the government yesterday also has some shockers in store for Gujarat. Its record on human development – especially malnutrition of young children – is quite sad. As per the report, 69.7% of children under five years of age are anaemic and 44.6% suffer from malnutrition. I am not quite sure why and how this has happened. I know for a fact that Gujarat is one of the most prosperous states – the poverty levels being much lower than national levels. Maybe it’s something to do with the food habits of Gujarati people – for many of whom the concept of “breakfast” is unfamiliar. Maybe it’s to do with the absence (or low numbers) of government sponsored mid-day meal programs etc which help the poor to get two square meals a day. One needs to look at this more closely.

    One other possible reason could be that the foodgrains production of Gujarat is very low – given its size and its population. The total production of foodgrains is just 7.8 million tonnes per annum (even after achieving record growths during Modi’s tenure! I have always stated that Modi should rightfully take credit for this – but with a caveat that the low base would obviously lead to high growth rates). The population of Gujarat is about 6 crores. Compare this with UP – 47 million tonnes (population 3 times of Gujarat), Andhra (20 million tonnes – population 1/3rd more than Gujarat) and Punjab (27 million tonnes – population less than half of Gujarat). Gujarat is a leader in cotton production – and while that gives a lot of cash in the hands of the farmers – it doesn’t give foodgrains (most poor farmers and agricultural workers most consume what they produce before selling the rest to the market). One needs to see if this is indeed true.

    The real truth is that Modi’s strategy is to claim credit for economic progress when it is not rightfully his. For roads, he has to thank the central government (whether NDA or UPA). For the economic prowess of the people, he must thank….the people! This is not to say that Modi is not a good CM – he is. But his claims that he is better than any that Gujarat has had or the other CMs in the rest of the country is rubbish. Also his record on non-economic matters (secular harmony most notably; human development; freedom of speech etc) is an entirely different matter

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is all “rubbish”, because

    1) the writer is a “congressi”.
    2) the RBI and every other institution is under the “direct control” of the Rajmata and Amul baby, so the quoted data is “cooked up”.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    you ay be right but any proof that image which modi is projecting of his state is coorect.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is a brhmnst, zionst, wahabst, talbnst cnspracy agnst dlits, bckwrds, mslims, chrstns etc

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    sometime against their own people as well.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    presented to vinod jee,prajee and ravi bhai,

    India Talent Show – Warriors of Goja AMAZING

    on you tube

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————-
    ~~~ 3 YEARS AFTER 26/11~~ We have lost all the advantages ~~~~
    ————————————————————————————————————————–

    If we look back at those defining days of 26/11/2008 to 29/11/2008, what have gained?

    Possibly nothing!

    HT’s Shishir Gupta has written an incisive blog that we have buried the whole thing without honour… and I agree with him. Why?

    a) The main brain behind 26/11, Zakir Hussain Lakhvi still enjoys Pakistani and ISI hospitality in jail and communicates with his team thru his cellphone.

    b) Out Yuvraj has linked the murderous assault and the terror attack with “right wing hindu” terrorism

    c) Digvijay Singh and AR Antulay tried to link 26/11 as a RSS ki saazish and in a typical Congressi way tried to get Indian Muslim votes thru those statements.

    d) India is now willing to walk more than half way to clasp Paksitani hands without getting the culprits of terror or getting any real assurance that further attacks won’t happen.

    e) The softies of India now invoke the Cihna threat to tell us that we should bend before terrorattackas and forgive and forget…

    So at the end of it… we are where we were before 26/11 and Pakistan probably still feels that it can get away with more.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    Shishir Gupta is a new broom in the HT news room and he doesn’t represent the “official” view of HT, which is that MMS is doing the right thing by going even upto Wagah border to shake hands with his “peace loving” counterpart.

    Editors like Vinod Sharma also agree, even if in private, that the real terrorists are the “right wing” Hindu terrorists, whom Fake Ravi and the asli wahabi, Ram Autar, are fighting on his blog on a daily basis.

    26/11 is dead and gone, the dead are not even remembered. On the contrary, we are asked to believe that 26/11 happened because Hindu terrorists wanted to kill Hemant Karkare!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Namaskar Shenoy sahab.

    Can I interject out here? I find Vinod Sharma quite balanced— till he enters the arena of Pakistan and Congress.

    This is blind love. And pyaar mein achche ache andhe ho jaate hain…

    I would tell him that pyaar mein mehbooba ka chehara bhi dekho. Chaand ke tukre par bahut daag hain…

    Congress is being identified with unprecedented corruption and buffonary. While Pakistan is continuing its policy of a thousand cuts…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Shishir certainly very bold in the current scenario of the HT. I wish him the best…

    I hope Vinod Sharmaji too checks the [ulse of the people, who find Paksitani claims to be hollow and their policy of rewarding he 26/11 perpetuators, so obvious…

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    Read this mornig only, that kasab is having a breakfast of Doodh-Cereal, and Poha. Wah-Wah. He is doing better than crores of Indians, who do not know what breakfast means.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    Welcome back !!

    yes, it is sad that in this country we have a full lobby of people (mostly publicity seekers) who would do anyting for terroists’ comfort, but would have little time for the ordinary citizens…

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Vijay and other bloggers

    I wish all of us put down our thoughts on where we have lost our way on our foreign policy front. This man Krishana is no match for Pranab Mukherjee who was handling the protfolio well during 26/11.

    Are we better prepared in case another such attack takes place? God alone knows.

    it seems pakistan has got away with somehting it dare not do to anbother country in the world…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    Our foreign policy is non existent. We are unable to take advantage of Global trends. Even on Libya we hung around with Gadaffi till the last day.

    The only time in recent memory when foreign policy was effective was when Jaswant Singh engaged with Strobe Talbott and changed the American policy in the subcontinent. Even at that time th Congress foreign policy “experts” like Natwar Singh and Mani Aiyar were shouting blasphemy…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    viju

    I believe we stuck with Gadaffi because the policy makers were “concerned” with the Muslim backlash –
    But, foreign policy outcomes for most part is a derivative of economic and military strength. Let us grow our GDP further, let us do a few military exercises; world will come our way. That is what China has achieved – discussion on their terms.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Welcome back Gopi. I guess u too are as hassled by this new blog format which drives people away !

    Gopi, Indira Gandhi was a force to reckon in the foreign policy even when India was economically dimunative, because she was headstrong and gutsy.

    At one point, we had the world at our feet. From Africa, to the Mideast, India had unprecedented goodwill, all lost because of dimunative men in high positions…

    I think we may need to be a bit more assertive.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo, Vijay Kumar,

    Krishna is the kind of person who is constantly into “jaate the Japan, pahunch gaye cheen” forgetfulness. He is in good company, though. Most of this UPA government are moving like headless chicken these days, except when fighting among themselves. But, if you look at his constantly bickering colleagues, he is a non-controversial “leader” (without any followers).

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Maybe it should be

    Jaana thaa Lahore
    Pahunch gaye Bangalore…

    Anonymous Reply:

    I agree that S M krishna is not the person to be the External Affairs Minister – unless he is just a front with the real policy makers in the background.

    Do you have a person in mind from the present ruling dispensation?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ manohar

    Well I think Anand Sharma would be better than Krishana. Maybe a younger more articulate Scindia or even Kapil Sibal could argue our case internatinally and win more firends…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think Scindia is too young for the post. I have a mixed opinion about Anand Sharma. Perhaps Sibal is the best bet. Shashi Tharoor is another one – poor chap was asked to leave by the ‘oldtimers-***- loyalists’ of the Congress – the ‘controversies’ were just excuses to get rid of ‘Johnny come lately’. What a waste of talent.

  • Anonymous

    @ Mahesh

    I find ur arguement strange. As per your logic we should not take any action against any terrorist group becasue we should be scared of the violence they would perpetuate…

    Strange cowardly logic.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinoo

    Taking no action against terrorist groups is bad.

    But for a state to indulge in extra judiciary executions is worse.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo,

    on the rare occasions he appers here, Mahesh Babu is mostly incoherent and when he is not, he puts forth strange logic, which only fake Ravi, the jihadi and his ISI colleague, Ram Autar find interesting and not strange.

    Correction: his logic appeals to his congressie troll comrade too.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Shenoy

    Why beat about the bush.

    Why don’t you admit that you are thick as pig ****.

    Unless the post is tabloidy gossip, it seems to be far beyond your grasp.

    Ashish, who is cleverer than most of us here, engaged with Mahesh on point for point basis, without any difficulty.

    Trying to choose a winner from that debate would be vulgar.

    It was a score draw.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @Mahesh, I am dumbfounded that you thought it was worth your while , to respond to a CHALLA SIKH , variously called trolls , “you do not read , because you cannot read” etc.I would ignore such CLOWNS most likely entred UK at the back of a lory in DOVER.
    You are absolutely right , ONE KISHENJI will be replaced by 100 KISHENJI unless the ROOT CAUSES are addressed.In fact patrick french in his book INDIA ,A HISTORY OF 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE, clearly reveals the nature of this movement.
    The POOR have been genuinely attracted to the ideology, so unless their wretched life is taken care of , nothing will change.Mamata has taken SMALL STEPS.
    Still eagerly awaiting your post on the ORIGIN OF LANGUAGE
    Yours Sincerely Shan

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    We need to get to the root of all our problems. But it does’nt mean that we need to luv our kishenji’s teill then… Even when they bomb trains and kill security men and loot arms.

    His house in the TV video has AC’s. So much for his luv for the poor.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Vinoo59, new to this blog, you’l get to know each other.
    The question is not about an INDIVIDUAL , it is about a MOVEMENT and HOW IT MANAGES TO ATTRACT THE POOR IN DROVES AND HOW INCREDIBLY WELL ORGANISED AND SOPHISTICATED ITS OPERATIONS ARE, managed to slaughter 1200 CRPF jawans like abhimanyu was killed in mahabharata epic.
    The success is bengal in nabbing Kishenji is a testimony that IF THE POOR CAN BE WEANED OFF WITH GENUINE EFFORT TO UPLIFT THEM FROM THEIR MISERABLE STATE, MAOISM WILL WITHER DUE TO LACK OF FODDER

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Love your AC loving enemy, till he kills you.

    Therefore, the better option will always be kill your killer-enemy and relax in an AC room yourself.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Ravi

    At this point there is no proof that this was a fake encounter. Just accusations.

    Secondly we justified encounter killings agaisnt Khalistani terroirsts and in the end solved the problem. These maoists deserve worse– in case they start killing– bullet for bullet is the only policy.

    Yes, we need to create employment avenues, industry and education. But Maoism, itself is a deterrent for all that in those areas.

    The maoists leaders need to meet uncle Mao in heaven. The misguided youth need to be given employment and education.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinoo

    In your opinion apart from Maoists who else deserves to be shot.

    Let me help you, there are people here in this blog who would quite readily volunteer to shoot the following:

    1. Arundhaty Roy.

    2. Digvijay Singh

    3. Sonia Gandhi

    4. Amul Baby

    Lets see if you can add to this list, may be even from among ourselves.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    u r trying to be sly. Your game is obvious. That you want to cast me in he mould of a so called Hindu Fundo which is ur mental obsession and no such reality exists in India.

    I think you should get over your psychological hangups and engage in healthy debate.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vinoo

    I suggest that you pay no attention to my mental health. I am under the full-time care of our resident neem Hakeem B V Shenoy Ji.

    If you did not like my response to your post, I suggest that you re-read your post.

    Absurd posts merit equally absurd responses.

    Your game is just as transparent as mine.

    You are about as subtle as a porcupine.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo-

    Ravi is a Pakistani. His cover was blown by Ashish many blogs ago.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Now he parades himself in his birthday cover, displaying his ISI-injected jihadi stuff for all to see. No more subterfuge, slyness, hidden agenda, sophistry etc for this wahabi fundoo.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Arundhati Roy and DigVijay will be tried for treason in any other country, including England.

    Amul Baby is stupid; i believe he is an innocent bystander. His mother is intelligent; I do believe she is a believer in India unlike the Digvijays and Arundhatis.

    Arundhati is full of cr— her mother Mary has done more for women’s and other causes, having filed and won a case on property rights of Syrian christian women in Kerala.

    A self proclaimed “communist/interested person for the downtrodden”, Arundhati blasphemed EMS Nambudiripad, the first Marxist CM of Kerala, a beloved person of the leftists/labourers of Kerala. Nambudiripad donated all his (1000 plus acres) of land to the party. I do not remember reading anywhere that Arundhati donated the profits from her books to any cause.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    One has become accustomed to expecting thought-provoking contributions from you.

    This one, I am afraid to say, misses that mark by a country mile.

    Now there is no issue with you dis-agreeing with Digvijay Singh and even calling the likes of Arundhiti Roy hypocrites, but to characterize them as TRAITORS is lazy baseless conclusion.

    “Blasphemed EMS Namboodripad”, when was he elevated to the level of a GOD who can be blasphemed. He may have been a great leader to some, he was a God to none.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    “Arundhati Roy and DigVijay will be tried for treason in any other country, including England”.

    Only in non-democratic countries and theocratic regimes, certainly not in UK.

  • Anonymous

    Guys ignore if you can , the dirty criminal, pak-peddling scums like Ravi, Engrich, Shan ( what’s the name he is using now ? )

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The SCUM SUPREME IS YOU RAJJEVS, who is licking FIRNIGI ARSE , for a few crumbs in the way of dollars , the same yanks who supported PAKISTAN to the hilt during bangladesh war , and as late as 1995 , when the US AMABASSADOR WARNED INDIA AGAINST ANY FOLLY OF CARRYING OUT HOT PURSUIT ACROSS THE BORDER to catch the kashmiri terrorist.
    Then hailing from a backward state UP that you are , it is unreasonable to expect any trace of intellectual merit in your post. YOU SHOULD CONFINE YOURSELF TO NEO NAZI ARYAN SUPREMACIST WEBSITES

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Guys ignore if you can , the dirty criminal, pak-peddling scums like Ravi, Engrich, Shan ( what’s the name he is using now ?

    AND DONKEYS LIKE U.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    fingerintheass

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Meanwhile, after 10 years of war, NATO finally targetted the real scum terrorists and killed 28 Pak soldiers

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes… I think Pakistani soldiers and ISI should get more meidcine for all he problems they create worldover

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The above is directed at the punjabi PUNDOO BRAHMIN SCUMBAG

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj#1

    Shenoy Sahab;
    I am sorry that I missed you in Bangalore by some 30 minutes. In India, catching flight is an exercise in itself. Next time, I hope, I will be able to meet you.
    Vijay and Vinod, sorry, missed you guys too. Delhi has changed in many ways, it is not the same Delhi, which I left some time back and now, do not find it easy to negotiate by bus, scooter, rail or any mode of transportation. Taxis are some relief but very costly. Would write my impression about my visit in next few posts. Feel happy and sad simultaneously by the change I witnessed in India.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    vinodjee this is in context of memogate chopper attack on pak soldiers and what is happening in libya and syria, ,

    Truth is one and indivisible. When it comes to terrorism and Arabs or Muslims, the North American and European mass media portrayals enforces two distinct order of truth – one for the general public and one reserved for the Muslims. In all human affairs, facts are considered to reach the conclusion. End cannot be assumed to play with the facts, nor based on dogmas to explain the facts of human life. Under the guise of the Anti-Terrorist legislation, America, Britain and Canada have misused the logic of power to arrest, defame and punish people of Arabian and Islamic origin who had no linkage to the terrorism myth. The strategy dictates that selected groups should be detained and tortured indefinitely, to drain out their moral, intellectual and creative energies, making them incapable to survive socially or professionally credible citizens of the country. Consequently, the public will view them as crazy and undesirable people to be counted as numbers and digits in economic terms, but not dignified human beings

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    NDTV involved in launders rs 2000 crore of 2 g money ? Case if filed
    against this channel.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/73737895/ITNDTVPC

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Good. We need to clean up the Aegean Stables and the guilty punished.

    PS: ST missed out on 100th 100.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    He has scored maximum centuries against Australia. I am sure
    he will add to this tally down under in India’s tour end of next month.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    let me once again repeat my comment on your earlier remark that Sachin Tendulkar has determination, dedication etc:

    “He may have all the imprtant D’s but if the most important D (destiny) is not on his side, he may never make it.

    (this comment got twice deleted).

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    I hope destiny is on his side. And he is too good a player to fail regularly.

  • Anonymous

    Killing is sad. But maybe the Pakistanis deserve a does of their own medicine…

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    pakistanis are foolish ,why they are fighting their war.they have lost 40000 civilians & soldiers in this effort.now they have eaten shit in afghanistan,so they want to put blame on pakistan.

    it is not only in afghanistan,it is everywhere, Karzai of Afghanistan, Maliki of Iraq and Zaradri (Pakistan) are the hired stooges and stage puppets, not the voices of the people in their nations. President Obama was elected in 2008 with reference to “Audacity of Hope” onward to a public promise: “Yes We Can.” But the contemporary history is telling loud and clear that Obama played joke with the mankind – raised false hope of change and when he assumed the office, he renegade his global vision and commitments to change and reform the Bush’s era wrongs and injustices to the interests of the people of the United States.

    their war on terror is to destroy a country .War on Terrorism” has nothing to do with the alleged terrorists; it is a war to help Halliburton, Bectal and other corporations to capitalize their holds on the oil supplies and gas business. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld contracted Halliburton of Dick Cheney for 7 billion works to be done in Iraq before the invasion of March 2003. President Bush passed the Executive Order # 13303, giving complete immunity from criminal prosecution to the American oil companies dealing with the Iraqi oil management.belhaj an alqaida leader was leading anti-ghaddafi nato forces in libya.

    We have now reached a stage where our extreme horrors of brutality and cruelty have exceeded our past records. We no longer have the rationale of moral righteousness of the earlier wars.

    drone attacks from waziristan to somalia deliberately foment the murder of innocent people – your family, your friends, your lovers, you – in order to further their geopolitical ambitions.bye

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Talking about killings – a young Muslim man was murdered here near Calicut (kerala). He was killed by another young Muslim. The police has handed over the case to CBI/NIA; the initial inquiry pointed to deep inter-Muslim (moderate/orthodox, Wahabi/”Indian” etc) rivalry/desire for eradication.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    things like happens in every thana of india by evert community.nothing new nothing special.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    Isn’t that good news.

    Double Bubble.

    One Mallu Mullah kills another Mallu Mullah.

    One dead and the other in the Nick.

    Can we industrialise this??

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    The killers were soldiers, those killed were soldiers.

    In an un-delared war, this type incident is an inevitabilty.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Gopi Thomas on DENUKING PAKISTAN
    Balwinder praaji on KISHENJI’S DEATH
    Vijay Kumar on Shishir Gupta’s BRILLIANT BLOG

    THANK YOU ALL – wonderful posts.

    1. Praaji you were brilliant in highlighting the lack of enthusiasm on Kishenji’s death. I say it was more imp for us than Osama’s death ( who anyways was a has been). The Maoists are slowly being hammered out of existence, and one desp hopes for poverty alleviation to go side by side.

    And yet, Balwinder, all you got for your pains was a very bizarre patronising attack by Mahesh, who got totally sidetracked by your figurative slap on Arundathi- the man totally lost it there

    2. Gopi and Balwinder highlighted the MOST IMP task in the whole world today- how to denuke Pakistan. If it wasnt for their nukes, then almost certainly we would have struck across the border after Kargil, Kandahar, Kasab or for Kashmir meddling.

    It has given them an audacity. Perhaps breaking away Balochistan, fuelling unrest in Karachi, Azad Kashmir, could be linked to a long term aim of denuking them, breaking them down bit by bit.

    2018- India and Israel destroy Pakistani nuclear reactors, with CIA help- now what a lovely headline that would be !!

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    vinoo and Dr Pankaj- welcome back.
    Vinoo I liked yr riposte to Ravi and Mahesh- ‘ We need to get to the root of all our problems. But it does’nt mean that we need to luv our kishenji’s till then… Even when they bomb trains and kill security men and loot arms ‘

    I particularly disliked Mahesh’s personal attack on Balwinder, calling him drunk, and basically belittling praaji’s well known lack of finesse with the English language…. and also Ravi applauding this attack from the sidelines.

    Bizarre- Kishenji was a mass murderer, whose men disembowelled our soldiers and run a terror network in the villages. He deserved as much of the Geneva convention as he meted out to his victims.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I am glad you are back.

    The blog singularly lacked reactionary twaddle since your self imposed exile.

    Now that you are here the CERTIFICATE issuing habbit has resumed.

    Of course it would be asking too much for you to explain as to what made Kishenji to be what he was. That would require consideration which is missing from your character.

    What Mahesh and others are saying is that the killing of an individual does not always solve the problem. It just sets it back for a few months until another leader emerges.

    The basic issue of poverty, usurpation of mineral rights, grabbing land at less than market value, disenfranchising the original inhabitants of the land, etc were the issues that gave birth to Kishenji.

    He may be gone, but the issues still remain.

    BTW Geneva Convention applies to STATES not to individuals, I would have thought a Double Doctor such as you would have known that.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    CERTIFICATE issuing habbit has resumed

    that is why ashish said ,how much i know abt medicine u know abt history.

    naxal movement has long history and many reasons.it is result of urban encrochment of their land and loot of their natural wealth by deshbhakts (rss man)like madhu koda.

    all its founder,chanchal sarkar,jangal santhal and charu majumdar were murdered.but movement contiue ,now control 1/3 india.death of a man will not make any difference.till thr reasons are taken care of.
    dr shan knows abt more can shed more light..

    AshishC Reply:

    Chanchal Sarkar; Naxal???
    Are you sure you have the name right?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    I hope you have not opened the pandora’s
    box. Now just to defend his comments he
    may come up some quotes from manu smirti, sati pratha, child marriage in hundusism, evil brahmins etc

    engrich Reply:

    u are right it was kanu sanyal not chanchal sarkar.u are always right i would like to have ur opinion on this incidence.

    to kill oppopnent it is better to use weapon of language instead of using language of weapon.
    if he was arrested,negotiation was better than murder.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Dr Mishra

    Thx !!! Most of us feel that our security men are uneccessarily hassled by publicity seekers and polliticians. Bloggers who believe in Maoism should first donate all their money to these maoists and follow their lovely diktats, ratherr than spend time lecturing us.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    2018- India and Israel destroy Pakistani nuclear reactors, with CIA help- now what a lovely headline that would be !!

    Even after being cooked in a pie
    Some Pigs have been known to fly

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ravi, this MISHRA GEEZER is not just a reactionary twaddle , he is more than that , a bramhin , as you know the advice of caution about the bramhins, IF YOU SEE A SNAKE AND A BRAMHIN (not in surname but in caste character like mishra) leave the snake alone , stone the bramhin.
    Anything this plonker has posted carries the same intellectual merit as a david dhawan /govinda starrer film

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I totally agree

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    People like Kishanji should be hunted down, killed mercilessly.

    People would have been with the maoists if they targeted a ‘responsible” department
    secretary, a minister, an MP/MLA; instead they were killing people on the lower
    starta who really could not change/effect policy – like school teachers, police constables. They are foolish if they think the political or administrative class will care about the killings of constables or teachers…

    Kill a minister; kill an MP. kill a secretary/collector, kill an IPS…then things may move in the right track.
    People like Ravi and Mahesh — it is not the constables or teachers who took the adivasi lands or who are mining there–They are easy to target; most probably the adivasi leaders and people like Kishan must be getting money from these people.

    Do these people want Mao”s China or current China?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    What you have said is correct. Even I would respect these maoists if they
    target the people who make these anit poor policies. The people killed
    are only following orders and are easy targets for maoists.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    Things are much more complex than you would want to imagine.
    As a starter – let me throw you a question – if killing Minister , IPS or Secretary is so popular and going to solve problems – why won’t any group that resorts to militaristic resistance just plant a few bombs here and there ? Be it State or be it radical groups – basing the political strategy on armed actions has rarely ever yielded results. Perhaps – it is something about the gun (speaking here in a notional sense) that breeds illlusions of being “masters of universe”.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ————————————————————
    Why are anti-socials and pakistani thugs so sad at death of a criminal ?
    —————————————————————————————————————
    Most extrimist, violent movements attract criminals and thugs. When the naxalite movement happened in Bengal in 1968-71 period, every thug and criminal in the town, overnight became a naxalite and engaged in murder and extortion. Similar thing happened with the Khalistani movement. The naxalite menance in certain parts of india has attracted a similar groups of thugs, goons, extortionists. Criminals who engaged in dacoity and robbery are now naxalites. Anti-social criminals often sympathize with such scums and anti-socials. That may explain why the much derided scums and pro-pak thugs on this blog are so angry at the death of criminal kishan.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    A punjabi pundoo bramhin , brain is as refined as the sewage system of delhi , says something about the Naxalite movement in calcutta , that had me in stitches.
    According to this DICK HEAD , **** brain , all the naxalites were hoodlums. Well he is punjabi , balle balle *** hole. This MORON should know the fountainhead of naxalite movement was PRESIDENCY COLLEGE AND COFFEE HOUSE , that produced luminaries such as nobel laureatte AMARTYA SEN, SATYEN BOSE , the fundamental particle BOSON named after him , Meghnad Saha of the famous THERMOIONIC EQUATION, a fellow of the ROYAL SOCIETY.
    This is a tiny sample , the alumni are scattered all over the USA in all the prestigious institution.
    The economics alumni litter every facet of INDIA ’s ECONOMIC DECISION MAKING BODIES, SOME NAMES , Bibek Debroy, Bimal Jalan(Ex governer RBI)
    Arjun Sengupta, Isher Ahluwalia, PRANAB BARDHAN OF BERKLEY,
    and the one thought to be even cleverer than Amartya Sen , SUKHOMOY CHAKRABORTI , another Sure nobel laureatte , only if he didn’t die at an early age.
    The last but not the least ASHOK RUDRA , from whose writing in bengali I discovered the dismal economic picture of India.
    Oh yes P C Mahalonobis , regarded as one of the three in the world who founded the science of statistics.
    And JC Bose , who co invented Radio ,at the same time with Marconi.
    One of his instruments is patented and used by US Dept of Agriculture(source, the book BRAMHO SAMAJ AND THE MAKING OF MODERN INDIA BYDAVID KOPF

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vinoo puttar I like yr style. Thx also to rajiiv, Gopi, Mishraji, Vijay, Shenoy for supporting me on kishenji, I thought Im going mad, I say something so imp and Mahesh starts jumping up down. Thx vinoo puttar, rajiiv, Gopi, Mishraji, vijay, Shenoy, Dr pankaj
    Mishraji, u hit nail on head when u say for India, killing Kishenji was more use than osama hit. BRILLIANT SIRJI.
    Vinoo, be careful of cingulategurus, his real name is DR SHANTANU MANDAL, got mbbs on SC,ST quota and rather than being grateful and joining mainstream and becoming gud man, he spends hours here using cheap language, abusing forward castes and saying absurd lies like in UK Urology surgeons earn more than school teachers.
    He is most hated man on blog, got banned from Gautam Chikerman blog for making sick joke on raping gautams daughter. Totally sick man

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rag head , cabbage brain , balls bhondhu , here you have it, if you missed it
    @Mahesh, I am dumbfounded that you thought it was worth your while , to respond to a CHALLA SIKH , variously called trolls , “you do not read , because you cannot read” etc.I would ignore such CLOWNS most likely entred UK at the back of a lory in DOVER.
    You are absolutely right , ONE KISHENJI will be replaced by 100 KISHENJI unless the ROOT CAUSES are addressed.In fact patrick french in his book INDIA ,A HISTORY OF 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE, clearly reveals the nature of this movement.
    The POOR have been genuinely attracted to the ideology, so unless their wretched life is taken care of , nothing will change.Mamata has taken SMALL STEPS.
    Still eagerly awaiting your post on the ORIGIN OF LANGUAGE
    Yours Sincerely Shan

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Will post you a couple of good links on the evolutionary aspects of language with Chomsky , Lieberman and others theses sometime next week. These make for immensely interesting readings.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    With the return of all the ‘usual suspects’, the blog has returned to its normal state.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    India Adopts Genetically Modified Moong Daal

    In pursuit of higher yields India has started growing a genetically modified moong daal. It has only recently been discovered that this variety of the sacred bean has some hallucinogenic properties.

    It seems, some two hours after ingestion the subject – while asleep – has a hallucinogenic fit, during which he dreams that a combination of CIA, Israel and India will one day be able to de-nuke Pakistan. Double Doctor and a self appointed Pulpit Pit-bull terrier, Dr Mishra and his Kon-Koni Shrimp Pottage, Shin Shinaki Bubla Bu are two such people who have been severely afflicted by this condition.

    Conservative estimates put Pakistan’s Nuclear arsenal to something north of 100 bombs. These, say who know about such things, are probably stored in 10 or more sites, which are of international security standards and geographically distributed. This gives us some measure of the difficulty of the task of de-Nukeing Pakistan.

    To-date there is no precedence showing that a country once having developed a Nuclear Arsenal, has been de-Nuked.

    Meanwhile, दिल के खुश रखने को ग़ालिब यह ख्याल अचछा है.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Gopi

    Just in case, in this point scoring and sparing atmosphere, you form a wrong impression, here I will state it straight.

    1. No one here is saying that the Poor and Adivasi’s are being deprived of their right-full due by the CRPF soldiers themselves.

    2. However, it is the CRPF soldiers who are oppressing these people on behalf of an uncaring Government. One could easily argue that, that makes them a fair and easily available target.

    3. Killing of other civilians is deplorable even if the killing is being carried out by the Maoists. No one should be excused of this form of terrorism.

    4. Whilst hunting down of known terrorists is a legitimate exercise, it must be done in conjunction with other peaceful measures, such as consultation via recognised political entities. For example whilst the British Government hunted IRA terrorists, it also talked with its political front Sinn Fein. Whilst Babbar Khalsa was being hunted down, the Indian Government was in conversation with the SGPC.

    5. There is a Political solution to these problems if and only if there exists the Political will to solve this issue fairly for all stake holders.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    point 4 above.
    The parallel with IRA/ Sinn Fein etc does not stand here- there is no one who is “overground” in the Naxal movement- there is no one of the required legitimacy.
    Theoretically, I agree- but, scenarios are different.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    A touching story on Indian army, Kashmiris and a middle-aged rotary club cricket team
    ————————————————————————————————————————-By Mudar Patriya
    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?279071

    September 12: A middle-aged Rotarian cricketer in Calcutta picks the September 12 Outlook issue and spills his tea when he reads that Lt General Syed Ata Hasnain is using cricket to transform a troubled Kashmir. He daydreams and thinks aloud, “If Kashmir is really safe for cricket, then how about taking a team from Calcutta and playing across in the Valley?” He writes a brief request to the Lt General on playing cricket across India’s Iron Curtain and is surprised with the reply, “Most welcome. You will be guests of the army. We will take you to play cricket all across Kashmir.” Man Friday was dispatched to the nukkad ki dukaan for smelling salts immediately.

    November 4: Some 15 club-level cricketers fly from Calcutta to Srinagar. Probably the first instance of a civilian cricket tour of the most militarily sensitive region in the world. Only three of us have been to Kashmir in the last 25 years; and only three have not been to London in the last three years. Some perspective. We are in blazers, looking quite cricket-corpo. People turn around to give us those looks; we feel kind of eyebrows-arching important. “Oh, holiday, right?” “No, no, actually to play some cricket.” “What, cricket? Kashmir? You guys part of some BCCI scheme? Who is funding your tickets? What, you’re not going for any tournament-shournament? You mean you have taken off from work to go and play kids half your age? Do you do this often?” And, “Just a minute, why Kashmir of all places?” We are enjoying this third-degree.

    November 5: For decades, ‘Anantnag’ was a metaphor for ‘police firing’. At 8:30 am we are being herded into a military bus with armed escort (front and back) to confront the Anantnag Arsenals. The bus winds through roads skirted by the bat factories of Avantipura and the saffron fields of Pampore until we get to an open clearing where 20-year-olds are hitting vertical skiers into the clouds before they disappear into cold, waiting hands 50 m away. We overweights watch with awe. And this is just practice, hell. Then the teams line up to face each other. We mumble something about “we heard you reached the semi-final of the Kashmir Premier League, so we hope that at least we can give you a good game”. Their captain says, “I have spoken to my boys and if you feel that the spirit of the game is being compromised at any stage, aap apna haath uthaaye aur umpire ko ishaara karein. We are here to learn discipline from you players.” We motley collection of out-of-touch performers look blankly at each other. Once the mini-speeches are over, players state their name, walk to each member of the other side, look each other in the eye, shake hands…and then get on with the business of bowling the other team out. Anantnag Arsenals hits 192 in 20 overs; we reply with 130. We feel like kicking ourselves; the boys console us, “Masha-allah, kya badhiya khele!” When we are leaving, their captain says, “Thoda sa agar waqt aapke paas hota toh hum aapko ghar le jaatey. Kuch seb khilaatey.”

    November 6: Rather than come, play cricket and scoot, the Rotarians decide to leave an enduring impact that will benefit the average countryman. We present an ambulance. This vehicle will diagnose potential cataracts across the Kashmir countryside and draw them into Srinagar where they will be operated by a joint team of army and other doctors. We present the vehicle to Lt Gen Ata Hasnain himself. We have not yet spent a full day in Kashmir but feel cocky enough to make prognosis to a man who has probably spent half his life studying this terrain. We propose that perhaps the time has come to take the cricket offensive two steps ahead. “One, get Kashmiri cricketers to tour the mainland starting with a return tour of Calcutta by your team next February; two, get the Pathan brothers (Irfan and Yusuf) to tour Kashmir, touching thousands of intending cricketers. These two young men, sons of a cleric, modest of background, successful and models of young India, will do more in killing the separatist movement than 100 howitzers.” The thinking Lt General nods. In my mind’s eye, he is probably issuing orders—get me Irfan or Yusuf on the line, let me speak to them. Thereafter, we drive off to meet the Budgam Blasters. We lose yet again on capricious matting.

    November 7: Id-ul-Zuha. Rest day. The army suggests that we do something productive. It packs us off to the Line of Control, Uri, to watch unusual army action. Two of the bitterest enemies in the world unlock their border gates, march out with erect stiffness and carry important consignments to be delivered to the other side—a basket of sweets. Until just a couple of days prior to this, the Pakistanis were firing improvised explosive devices into the Indian side; now they were saying their deceptive Id mubaraks, hugging each other on the bridge over the Jhelum-upon-the-LoC and confronting each other with “Tumney parson firing kyon ki thi?” and “Maine toh nahi ki thi. Woh shaayad terrorists thhe.” Cat and mouse elusiveness. After they have delivered their sweet basket, the Pakistanis disappear from binocular sight. The Indian explanation: “They don’t want to be seen on Id. What if we fire on any one of them? That will spoil the festival for all.” I ask an unrelated question: what then happens when India plays Pakistan at cricket? “Mat poochhiye saab,” is the Indian reply. “We are in a state of high alert. There is no saying what a Pakistani will do if his country loses.”

    November 8: Day out in the snow at Gulmarg. Cold. Cloudy. Raining. The horseman who takes us on a three-hour mountain chuck does a 2011 tourism review: “Best year. Bahut tourists aaye. Maharashtra, Gujarat and Bangaal se. Achhi kamaai hui. Aaatey rahiye!” Then he slips in a bombshell: “I walk 7 km with my horse up or down the mountains each way from home to work every day. If I take the relatively flat road, it would be 20 km and probably 30 minutes longer.” Nobody bargains with him when it is over. One of us tips his helper Rs 500. We return clicking silhouetted chinars against a flaming sunset with our Nikons and saying intermittent “aahs”.

    November 9: Last match, against Srinagar Sherdils, winners of the 193-team Kashmir Premier League. These guys have filled in leave forms at their colleges and offices on the grounds that a mehmaan team has come from the plains. Time wasted for most of them. Because it is not a match, but a mismatch. The SS captain senses the aberration. Rather than grind us into the dust and spend a lazy afternoon at home, he reverses the batting order; when it comes to bowl us out, he puts on the spinners instead. When one of us misses two balls in succession, smiles replace the usual urban sledge. When one of us gets a 50, three members of the SS team run up to congratulate. When the match ends, one of us takes off his cricket shirt, presents it to the team elder on the other side and invites our entire team to sign on his person. They do the same on ours with a collection of signatures in English and Urdu. Collector’s item.

    November 10: Last day. A part of our caravan winds its way to the famed shawl shops of Srinagar and ends up buying stuff worth a terrorist’s ransom. The deal has to be called off because our friends are obviously not carrying enough. No problem, waves the smiling storekeeper. Please take the pashminas to Calcutta. Go home and send the money. We think this is a freak incident. But it isn’t. One of our teammates wants to buy zaafran (saffron) from Noor Mohammed and isn’t carrying enough paper. So a deal is struck: the little boxes of saffron will be couriered to Calcutta and our friend can remit the cash only after he has ascertained that the delivered quantity and quality both match his requirement. What if we decamp, interjects one of us urban questioning types. We trust, the storekeeper says. We fly fazed into Calcutta after midnight.

    November 11: Emotionally hangovered. Sleeping under a fan. No desire to move a limb. Desire to seek leave. Hallucinating of chill, chinars and cheeriness. Occasionally diagnosed as ‘Kashmiritis’ with an overriding feeling that the most beautiful part of India probably lies north of Himachal Pradesh…and not just in its mountains.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajiv,

    Beautiful. Tks for the link.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ASHAMED TO BE AN INDIAN
    The spineless WIMP , thw WORST PRESIDENT AND PRIMEMINISTER DUO IN INDIA’S HISTORY has caved in to china’s bullying and have WITHDRAWN THEIR TAIL and decided NOT TO ATTEND THE INTERNATIONAL BUDHIST CONFERENCE JUST BECAUSE DALAI LAMA IS ATTENDING.
    I simply cannot understand WHAT IS THERE TO FEAR SO MUCH THE CHINKYS.
    Little that I have read JANE’S ENCYCLOPAEDIA ON MILITARY HARDWARE, India has nothing to fear.Sukhoi 30MKI can kick the shit out of chinky’s Chengdu fighters.
    India does not import oil from china SO WHAT IS THE PANIC.
    LET INDIRA GANDHI BE REBORN , WHO WITHSTOOD AMERICAN SEVENTH FLEET THREAT DURING BANGLADESH WAR.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    We are darpok.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    with tail permanently between the hind legs.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Totally agree with you.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dr.Mishra and Vinoo,
    Let me start with a basic poser – do you guys even read what is written , leave alone understand it ?
    What is so wrong about somebody raising questions about encounters that it merits public slapping and ridicule ?
    Do we realize – everytime State resorts to extra judicial killings, it loses an argument – and even more it loses credibility. Not to mention the tendency of State to “informally institutionalise” this practice. Furthermore, silencing those who raise questions expands the scope even further making the state fascist.
    You may harbour great tolerance and comfort depending on who the recipient of bullet is – I don’t enjoy such subscription to conformity, though.
    Another thing – and let me explicit about this – Notice here I haven’t even said anything about what Maoists do and what they don’t . The whole argument is about State’s actions.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Exactly

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Only if they understood that

    1) dissent is an essence of democracy, as long as it does not instigate violent opposition.

    They fear is that our nation-state is so weak, any deviant statement(s) from the official line further weakens it and the messenger(s) labeled as anti-national and unpatriotic, and a fit case for them to be put behind bars (or shot) for good.

    2) rule of law is another. Many of the bloggers here are looking for quick-fix solutions – kill proven or perceived criminals / anti-national elements as they seem to presume then the problems will just vanish into thin air.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh,

    you said, “everytime State resorts to extra judicial killings, it loses an argument – and even more it loses credibility.”

    Please enlighten us simpletons, some of whom actually read your long, boring posts, what is the argument or ‘credibility’ we lost in Punjab, when we eliminated the terrorists, their family members and even sympathisers and financiers? Or were they not extra-judicial killings? Or what was good then is not good now?

    And, how can the government of Mamta Di who ‘eliminated’ Krishnaji or the government of MMS which ‘eliminated’ Azad, both in, very likely, fake encounters be termed as fascist?

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Mahesh, thanks

    1. Osama and Kishenji operate the law of the jungle- they kill ruthlessly anyone they consider to be their enemies, and this includes women, children and the old. Like with Khalistani terrorists, where convictions were extremely rare, there is only one way to take them out- by a quick kill. As with Hitler, Pablo Escobar or Veerappan.
    To pretend otherwise is an exercise in naivete or infantilism- I do not practice either.

    2. You could therefore be accused of the same- you did not bother reading what our beloved praaji, he of few words, thundered. You certainly did not understand his simple figurative slap, linking the topicality of the slap on Pawar, with Arundhati’s well known forays across the line of bad taste when she almost eulogises Maoist violence.

    3. Your riposte to Praajee was very unusual of you, hence my stinging response. It dripped with condenscencion and was very supercilous and patronising, perhaps because he is not au fait with the English language. Your hammering on about the misspelling of Arundati’s name was indicative of the superior attitude some in India have towards those who may not have been to DPS.

    I put it to you, in this context, that your ability to churn out words like ’subscription to conformity’ in the comfort of your home has to do with the fact that someone is doing the dirty job of catching the criminals and bumping off the biggest ones. However I do share your unease of extra judicial killings, these are troubled times.

    I also think that this blog has some intelligent nationalists whose spirit drives this country forwards- and I rate Gopi Thomas, Shoeb, Balwinder, rajiiv and many others in those ranks.
    Thank you for reading

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mishraji,

    “” I put it to you, in this context, that your ability to churn out words like ’subscription to conformity’ in the comfort of your home “”

    Agree with you completely on this one. I wish people write simple English
    on this blog.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    sorry forgot vinoo- his words- ‘ But it does’nt mean that we need to luv our Kishenji’s till then… Even when they bomb trains and kill security men and loot arms ‘
    I am in my golf club as I type this on my mobile phone. Most of my English friends are, courtesy of me, conversant with Indian politics. One of them is actually aghast that this discussion is actually going on- the European does not suffer from Bollywood style sentimentalism when he deals with enemies of the state

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    This is what you said today…

    2018- India and Israel destroy Pakistani nuclear reactors, with CIA help- now what a lovely headline that would be !!

    And this

    is an exercise in naivete or infantilism- I do not practice either.

    Based upon your own sayings, I put it to you, that you do precisely practice “naievete and infantilism”.

    Let us see if the Jennana reposte is given its 4th airing.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    There is nothing infantile or naive about the proposal to de-nuke Paksshitstan in 2018 or earlier.

    Your plans of creating an independent Kashmir or joining Indian Kashmir to Pakistan sometime in the near future is in fact ‘infantile daydreaming’.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr. Mishra,

    these are no more ‘troubled times’ than the 80’s were, when the Khalistanis used to bomb, kill, maimand kidnap at will. It was a wise Narasimha Rao, who put his plan into action of ‘eliminating’ the Pak-funded and armed terrorists, by giving a free hand to the Punjab police to kill each and every captured Khalistani terrorist, putting the ‘take no prisoner’ policy to telling effect.

    If that policy saved the country from having a new nation,’Khalistan’ as our neighbour, then the present ‘elimination’ of leaders like Krishnaji will also save India from becoming Maostan or Maoland.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    This Mishra is talking utter bollocks. Kishenji was surrounded , he was given ample chance to surrender , he didn’t , he returned fire , if these are facts , and he got killed in the exchange , then THAT HAS FULL SANCTION OF LAW. But that is different to “encounter killing” which is extra judicial killing , the DUMB AND DUMBER mishra and his sidekick balwinder should remember , that god forbid they are visiting India and their near ones picked up by police on some filmsy charge and then wouldn’t like to revisit ENCOUNTER story by the police.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Some stray thoughts:
    1. We are not excercised by Naxal killings as much as those perpetrated by terrorists because the Maoists are operating largely in rural settings.
    2. We think it is ONLY a law and order problem- at worst, an “insurgency”- as if that is not bad.
    3. We think Indian state exists to deliver justice, establish rule of law and bring in development; especially in those remote outposts of the “Bharat Sarkar Raj”.
    4. We think if only Naxals were not there, the 33% of Indian landmass under Maoist insurgency will “develop”.
    5. We think that the government has a grand vision and strategy for integrated development of the utterly neglected areas of our country.
    6. We think the NorthEast of our country either does not exist or is peaceful- populated by colourfully costumed tribals last seen dancing with some member of the Nehru-Gandhi family.
    Let us admit, we are wrong or misguided.

    Some more:
    1. Some think Naxals want to bring in development or have indeed a model for development that has been proven to work elsewhere.
    2. Some also think/ say that we should not be deciding on developing the tribals- hands-off, totally. “let the bauxite stay in the mountains” (and presumably let the tribals stay in the jungle, as tourist curiousity items and subsist on “jhoom cultivation” and hunting)
    3. We think the Naxal leadership and their articulate sympathizers are P-L-Us; right academic creds,excellent command over English and wide readership courtesy an Editor of a national weekly of late furiously peddling his book

    Both these “thought bunches” are caricatures- extreme positions. But, if there is one benefit that I see of the Naxal movement, it is this:
    someday, and I hope that day is soon, the people of this country wake up and ask a very simple question to GOI and the state governments:
    “Can you share what your vision for development is and how you plan to reach the fruits of development to the 33% left untouched in independent India? And, how do you suppose we and more importantly ‘the 33%’ trust you given that our experience in the last 60 years have been pathetic?”

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Once again some very apt observations, about metropolitan clichéd views of North East and the Moaists.

    The question for me are these:

    1. Are Maoists simply gangsters and wish to replace one set of exploiters with another.

    2. What is the underlying, economic, social, or political ideology that under-pins their movement.

    3. Are they secessionists, like Sri Lankan Tamils were, in other words are they seeking separation from India.

    4. Are they anti development luddites.

    Here are my beliefs.

    1. Maoists are not gangsters, they are not common criminals, though I am sure some common criminals may have joined the Bandwagon. They are a political movement who having no other avenue open to them have resorted to violence.

    2. They are a proper political movement, which is left leaning, poor oriented and anti capitalist. This then defines their tactics as well as their enemies, both here on this blog and the world at large.

    3. I do not think they are anti-India, but they must be recipient of some Chinese money. They are just seeking a greater share of their own natural resources and the Local Economy.

    4. Perhaps a bit, they want to adopt such development strategies which spread the benefit to most of the population. This is against capitalism as well as normal economic geographical principles.

    Don’t know what P L Us are, but I am sure there is available a cream to cure it.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    PLU – People like us :)
    In short, to your points:
    1. What are simply gangsters? As opposed to complex ones? Or as opposed to …?
    2. I don’t give a toss.
    3. They want all of India- why separation?
    4. They are not Luddites.

    But, I am less concerned about the Maoists than about our government.
    The most powerful argument we can build against :”the Maoists are standing between the Adivasis and development” is, “what were you, Mr Indian State, doing for those decades, when there were no Maoists?”
    Your beliefs about them are not grounded in reality; they are a bunch of murderous thugs who do not care about constitution, democratic engagement and such things. They will be as much of a bad news to tribals as the rest of us.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Once again, the heat reached me before the light did. Not surprising considering even the elementary principles of physics are these days under attack.

    But here it goes.

    Simple Gangsters are motivated by Money. Political Gangsters are motivated by Political Power.

    Not having a political ideology will make them murderous thugs. I do not believe that is what they are. They are a leftist movement and hence disagreeable to you.

    There is a risk, and a big risk, that this movement metamorphoses into a Khmer Rouge type of movement. Unlikely yet possible.

    They want India in the same way as BV Shenoy wants vivisection of Pakistan and Dr Mishra wants to watch Pakistan being de-nuked from the 19th hole of his golf club. I better not say more otherwise I am likely to feel the thick end of his golf club.

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    a political ideology is an extremely useful cloak, is it not? More useful if you paint the cloak red; then you can even attract sympathisers like Ms Roy.
    I have not quite finished with my “stray thoughts”. Here are a few more:
    1. Maoists are fighting for the tribals’ welfare.
    2. All Maoists are tribals.
    3. All tribals are Maoists- well, they all all want development in the way the Maoists want.
    4. If only we all lived like the tribals do; in a sort of bucolic, idyllic haze (Mahua, anyone?), all the world’s problems starting with greenhouse gases will get solved.
    5. Left is always right; right is always wrong.

    Not having a political ideology will make them murderous thugs. I do not believe that is what they are.
    So, murderous thugs with a political ideology are less thuggish, less murderous and almost “bhadralok”? Why not expand the definition then? Say that murderous thugs who killed 3000 sikhs on the streets of Delhi were fine, upright young men- only driven by political ideology of the Congress Party? Or, the daily killings in West Bengal- TMC political thugs, sorry activists, killing CPM thugs, sorry again.. and vice versa are legitimate forms of political expressions? Or, before you accuse me of bias, extend the logic to Gujarat riots as well.
    I am today truly enlightened. Now I know if I ever turned into a mass-murderer, I will have one strong corner of suport I could count on- so long as I had a political justification for my acts.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Ravi , maoist movement has two component , the ideologues and the foot soldiers. The ideologues are as strident in their beleif as are the bin laden followers in their hatred towards USA. These “heads” think parliament is a pig’s stye.ON THEIR OWN THEY ARE KIR MAKOOR , it is their ability to draw in masses of rural poor to their cause and then brain wash them and turn them into murderers.
    Ashish is quite right in pointing finger at the STATE who have shown
    NAZI LIKE CONDESCENSION AND APATHY TOWARDS THE ADIVASIS, and treated them as “EHTNIC ANTHROPLOGICAL CURIOSITY” rather than fellow indians.
    that is why a college lecturer gets 50,000 Rs PER MONTH a school teacher gets 30000 rs per month , an adavisi eats grass and ants.
    read this with the knowledge that KANIMOZI AND RAJA netted 500 CRORES as bribes, AND VIJAY MALLAYA BUILD 600 CRORE PAD IN BANGALORE WITH BANK MONEY

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Shan

    I hope you enjoyed your trip to India.

    I mostly agree with you.

    I have one question to ask.

    When blaming this Government, of the plight of these Adivasis, you are accounting for only the last 60+ years of neglect. Please enlighten me as to what was the plight of these adivasis, during the British Raj, during the Mughal Raj, and during all those centuries, nay millennia, before any of the current neglect happened.

    So the most any one can lay at the door of this Government or any modern government is that it did not give the development of these people and the NE region as Higher a priority as they wanted or even deserved. Isn’t that what the real issue is?

    Anthropological curiosity as you put it, is the one thing they have and you wish to be-little even that.

    engrich Reply:

    shan great.it is war between mangoose and serpent.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Here are some of the “beliefs” of this jihadi:

    1″Maoists are not gangsters, they are not common criminals”
    Only, in between their petty thieving and stealing cows and goats, they also bomb trains, shoot a few dozens of policemen with AK 47’s every now and then and kidnap govenmnet officers, businessmen etc., for small ransoms of a few crores each.

    2.”They are a proper political movement, which is left leaning,..”
    In fact, they are so “left leaning” they are in danger of falling off the face of this earth, like their brethren have done everywhere else.

    3. “I do not think they are anti-India”. Pakistanis think exactly opposite of what we Indians think, which is that Maoists are anti-India.

    4.”….in other words are they seeking separation from India.”
    Actually, they are not separatists like the Kashmiri Muslims, Maoists are more dangerous. They want to “possess” India and rule India as per the diktats of the Chinese.

    5.”they must be recipient of some Chinese money.”
    This is a koke, really, from the jihadi. Actually, this “some chinese money” is some small change in coins, nothing like what the Kashmiris are receiving from the Pakistanis and Wahabi Saudis.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    As usual very nicely put.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ” We are not exercised by Naxal killings as much as those perpetrated by terrorists because the Maoists are operating largely in rural settings”.

    How true. As I have said earlier, who wants to worry about the poor, hungry and the wretched (fighting a grim battle day in and day out just to survive) from some godforsaken hamlet in some dusty part of the country?

    Elsewhere it has been mentioned that Naxalite movement consists mainly of criminals and anti-social elements. It is but natural that all such movements will attract such elements, past example – the Khalistani movement. The reason is obvious – their normal activities of murder, dacoity, etc. gets a cover of these movements and can evade the law more easily.

    Your concluding question is a valid one. However, who will bell the cat to wake up the governments and make sure the answers are forthcoming?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Both sides are to be blamed. Government has not done and dont
    want to do anything to uplift tribals. Maoists – who orignally were true believers of their movement, but now mostly taken over by thugs – have taken advantage of this situation. Big companies bribe politicians to get contracts in these areas and than pay protection money to maoists to get their work done. Who cares if some poor tribals and policemen are killed in this line of business?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Ashish’s question is for the future starting now. You have stated what is the past and the current situation.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I personaly dont see any change in future. This
    status quo will prevail. More common men will
    be killed, this subject will be discussed here and
    on some TV shows, some will support government and some will
    support maoists but believe me nothing will change
    atleast in near future.

  • Anonymous

    A confession , despite my vituperative exchanges with you and your “crab behaviour” towards me , I do like you. also as you have revealed your age , you are like my younger brother, quintessentially bengalee, despite being dislocated in Delhi. that includes the sharp mind , the pettiness , the bengalee crab mentality..
    Bottom line is MAOIST insurgency is a product of intersection of two dispartate fault lines. MASSIVE URBAN ECONOMIC INEQUITY leading to creation of the IDEOLOGUES, finding readymade fodder in the DISPOSSESED , DISOWNED, DISMEMBERED from the mainstream the RURAL POOR , MOSTLY ADIVASI.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    FDI 51% ownership in MASS RETAILING.
    I am all for it. The idiots are opposing because they are IDIOTS , dont have a clue about the MASS REATAILING.
    however first few yrs will be painful , for they will probably fill in the stacks from their GLOBAL INVENTORY, because TO BUILD UP LOCAL BASE will take time.
    BUT THEY WILL BUILD UP LOCAL INVENTORY , it is in their interest , ALSO THEY WILL TRANSFER MASSIVE AMOUNT OF TECHNOLOGY TO FARMERS AND SUPPLIERS TO BRING DOWN COSTS.
    Also Buying is VOLUME will increase the profit for the farmers.
    Then again few things are rather unique to india , the land holding is very small , but loads and loads of stuff THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SOURCE FROM INDIA.
    ALSO WASTAGE WILL BE REDUCED THROUGH TECHNOGY, a small example
    cucumber (kheera) wrapped in a polythene increases its sell by date by three days.
    lot of indian food will find markets abroad through the global inventory of these SUPERMARKETS

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Most of them (*) are opposing it for the sake of opposing it – without bothering to check the details or ignoring them. The primary reason being dished out is that it will ruin the Kirana / Nighbourhood shops. The fact is that 51% FDI in retail is restricted to cities/metros with population over 1 million (53 cities). The majority (80%) of these Kirana / Neighbourhood shops are located outside these 51 cities. So what ruin are we talking about. With advent of local hyper markets, the neighbourhood shops have adapted themselves and are still in the business. For example, on the street where I live there is one Super Market for the last 15 years and yet about 5 Kirana shops are doing their normal trade within a distance of half a kilometre, earlier there was only one.

    The other reason being dished out is that these giant retailers will ruin the Indian market with cheap imports from countries like China. The fact cheap imports have been flooding our markets for ages now. So what is new?

    Narendra Modi has welcomed the decision – in contrast to the BJP’s central leadership’s obstructionist stand.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The same fear was expressed with car industry, but it didn’t work that way , they build the supply chain all in india. ALSO INDIAN WAGES ARE STILL WAY BELOW THE WESTERN AVERAGE, so every reason WAL MART AND TESCO WILL SOURCE FROM INDIA.
    Kirana stores will be there , because to build these HYPER STORES, you need MASSIVE space. Planning permission and other land consideration will push them to the fringe of the city , IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A HYPERMARKET IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is also likely that the opposition is being backed (money of course) by the existing domestic hyper /super market chains, it is they who must be feeling threatened.

    Anonymous Reply:

    In 2007, Mayawati ordered the closure of Reliance Fresh stores in UP saying small traders were going to suffer. Small traders did not suffer elsewhere.

  • Anonymous

    Ashish and mishra doc hv ability to wake up slumbering blog. Superb writing you two, Vinodji shud be paying you.
    Ashish thanks for supporting me, I think, not sure as u write too long, that Kishenji and his band of merry men r not Robin Hood, but murderous thugs out of control. Bet u if the hand wringers Amnesty jholawalas on this blog were to be posted to Maoist lands, they wud be bribing local police to take out Kishenji.
    Mishraji yr ability to link Pablo Escobar , Osama and Virappan with Kishenji makes for great read.
    rajiiv, fantastic article on cricket in kashmir, although dr mishra may dismiss as Bollywood style sentimentality. But one can only hope

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    No wonder some one remarked about you “YOU DO NOT READ BECAUSE YOU CANNOT READ”
    no where has ashish supported you , HE HAS POINTED HIS FINGER AT THE STATE ,that means Government , hope you understand

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Not sure about him, but there is another one here who does not read because he cannot read.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ossama was not threat to india.u and some high caste were hating him because of america.no other reason.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Engrich,
    thanks for explaining, in a precise nutshell, why I hated Osama Bin Laden; yes, it is all my caste- other than the brahmins (and Jews??), everyone loves Osama, correct? Happy. Now, all together, bolo Osama ki Jai!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,

    it is all a brhmnst, zionst, Chrstnist, Maoist, conspiracy.

    AshishC Reply:

    Balwinder,
    I only use Disqus to post replies to comments made to me; and I follow a few people, again on Disqus- so, I have no idea if I was supporting you or not; I have not read your comments.
    As for my long posts- yeah; even I am getting bored with them :)

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @rAVI, You wanted to know about my trip to calcutta. I was staying at new alipore and had to cross Durgapur bridge , where ashish used to stay before his departure to delhi.
    I had mentioned few of my observations , here are some more. The taxi driver (90% are from Bihar) was speaking to his brother in MOTIHARI in Bihar on the mobile phone while driving. He said something which was telling. He said this mobile phone has drastically changed his life. Then he said AUR EK CHEEZ BAKI HAI , PADHAI (Education)
    No i did not stay at five star hotel like the pandit mishra , and I politely declined the invitation to a sumptuous dinner at Bengal Club. Calcutta is only place in India where you have these clubs , a left over from the Raj.I had food in a eatery called DHABA near Ballygung Phari. IT WAS OUT OF THIS WORLD. I bought few saris , the one called Baluchori is jaw dropping. Scenes from mahabharata is weaved into the pallu and is absolutely life like , needs to be seen to be beleived. Half of calcutta is DIABETIC, despite that i brought over to UK my favourite Rasokadombo , which has an hard outer shell made of say dried kheer , enclosing a rasogolla kind of stuff , simply SUBLIME.

    Now some more on Maoist movement. It is not only tribals . IN BIHAR IT WAS SC/ST who rose against the barbarity of the MISHRA AND HIS ILKS, the bhumihars. I had seen on Tv a footage where a Bihari guy was galvanising these BONE POOR HARIJANS against the landlord(courtsey BBC),
    Your mention about mughal and british period is redundant to this discussion.
    ADIVASIS AND SC/ST HAVE BEEN PUSHED OUT TO THE FRINGE BY THE BRAMHINICAL CASTE RIDDEN HINDU SOCIETY.
    Please please please watch Satyajit Ray’s DAYS AND NIGHT IN THE FOREST(available from Love Films). It will give you a good idea about the state of SANTHALS , the abject prejudice against them , though a fair game when it comes to carnal matters.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shaan Nirad Babu,

    you would have done well to take time off from your “busy schedule” to wallow in the famous gutters of Kolkatta just for old times’ sake, ie. before you ran away with a fake degree to UK in the leaking hold of a Somali pirate dhow.

    Or you have done it but are shy to tell the jihadi, who is doing it now in London.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pathetic abusive rant of a total looser.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The question again – what else were you expecting?

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    I am an optimist and was hoping that he may indulge in a sensible debate.

    His preference is for abuse.

    I noticed your comment about the return of usual suspects; I hope they do not succeed in hounding you out of this blog with their persistent attempts to forge like-minded twits into a gang here.

    The patting of each other’s backs (I had a more horrendous image in my mind but resisted its publication), addressing blogs to chosen few, issuing of certificates are all tried, tested and tired old tactics to isolate us.

    Anonymous Reply:

    The attempts to hound me and others out have been there for many months now, even pleading with Vinod Sharma, without any success. Two of them have been in this ‘business’ – it was I who decided to ignore these racketeers. Some others may ignore me – no big deal – in any case, who wants to waste time in dealing with never ending balderdash.

    There are enough sane elements on either side to carry on serious intelligent debates. Caricatures, who only succeed in showing their irrelevance in such debates, can go for a walk as far as I am concerned..

    Ravi Reply:

    :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Like Vinod Sharma issued a certificate to a certified jihadi fake here, of being secular!
    Secular, of all the virtues!!!!!!!!

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Shan

    In my youth I stayed in Santhal Parganas, for 3 months.

    The village I stayed in was about 4 miles from Griridi.

    The point about Adivasi’s, their plight was blamed on current Government, so I just asked and what their plight like before the current Government.

    I think I got from you the real answer.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Game Changer – ” The Delhi Govt has taken the decision to allow FDI in retail to benefit Rahul Gandh’s Foreign Friends “- Mayawati
    Game screwer – ‘ Why do UP vale go to Mahrashtra to beg ? ….There is an elephant sitting in Lucknow who is eating away all your money.”
    Has Rahul Gandhi started ******** up the Congress Campaign in UP even before it takes off ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rahul Gandhi has already screwed up the congress campaign. I will be surprised if they get even 30-35 seats. BJP also does not stand a chance.
    Its a fight between Mayawati and SP. Most probably Mayawati will come
    out winner again .

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    No business in the Parliament for the sixth consecutive day. No debates, no discussions, only criminal waste of taxpayers’ money.

    What is the way out of this logjam? Who is to be blamed? Any answers?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    So whats new ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Please do not be so dismissive or do you support such a state of affairs?

    This is a very serious issue – the most important arm of the governance has been brought to halt, as a result there will be inertia in the executive branch and many important bills are held up, including the Lokpal bill.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I dont support this logjam, but this is what we are witnessing since quite some time, hence my comments.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Actually, I was looking forward to your suggestions as to how to end this stalemate.

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is CRIMINAL, a law should be enacted to stop such behaviour. Also these idiots do not realise DESPITE THEIR THUGGISH BEHAVIOUR , laws can be passed bypassing the parliament through ordinance and directly getting the PRESIDENT to sign the bill. PARLIAMENT WILL BE THE LOSER

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    If you have just read the latest news – the parliament will not be allowed to function by the NDA, unless the decision about 51% FDI in retail is reversed.

    The question to ask, who has the majority in the parliament – the UPA or the NDA?

    The NDA (read BJP) paid a price for opposing the nuclear deal and admitted later as such just to score political brownie points, ending up with egg on its face. Perhaps, they wish to have another egg on its face.

    Technically, yes, ordinances are a way out, but cannot become the norm.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Is it a ego problem.? Both dont want to sit and discuss
    and solve the issue. Now Anna has also given the ultimatum
    that he will again sit on fast if Lok pal is not passed by
    27th of Dec. Now both parties can blame each other for not
    passing of Lok pal.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    the congressie trolls and their jihadi friends are worried that the congress is now in the grip of the opposition, with even its allies like the BSP and parivar members like Mamta Di on the warpath with it.

    The fact is that the whole country is watching with horror the FDI induction drama MMS has so senselessly imposed on the hapless country.It is hardly surprising that evrybody sees the retail trade being gobbled up by the MNC’s and China, but the congress is blissfully unaware of the dangers.

    It is really pathetic of the congress to try to sell the idea as the best thing for the country’s farmers.

    Anonymous Reply:

    No, it is not a ego problem. The strategy is well known. Stall all proceedings and then go and tell the people look the ’sarkaar’ is ‘nikammi’ – they haven’t done an iota of work.

    If the parliament is not allowed to function and looks it is not going to, let us see who Anna Hazare and his team blame, as the Lokpal bill also be one of the causalities?

    Ravi Reply:

    I would go as far as saying that when they do that the opposition is being anti national.

    Ravi Reply:

    How many eggs does it take to make an omelette large enough to cover the face?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Let me see. First we have to measure the size of the face, then we have to see the type omellte that will fit the bill. Spanish, Mushroom, Cheese or Masala, then ……………
    ;-)

    Ravi Reply:

    What odds will you give on the omlette being eaten by Nitin Gadkari before it is able to cover his face.

    Anonymous Reply:

    2 to 1.

    Ravi Reply:

    मुह में अंडा भरें, रथ यात्रा पुरबहार चले
    चले भी आओ के सरकार का कारोबार चले

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Praveen Saxenaji,

    actually, the UPA has been reduced to a minority with the so senseless a confrontation the Amul Baby has launched against Mayawati.

    Its floor management in the Lokasabha is in shambles, without any leader having a face to meet the opposition half way and to request for cooperation. They had earlier burnt their boats with the BJP, but now they are totally reduced to a friendless rump not knowing how to run the business of the government.

    A VERY PATHETIC, UNENVIABLE SITUATION FOR A RULING PARTY THAT CAME TO POWER JUST TWO YEARS AGO WITH A “MANDATE”.

    LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE FORFEITED THE MANDATE.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy Saab

    There are many Reforms Bills which are pending with the Govt. But the Govt chose this one , because it thought that it may bring immediate short term gains. Some Investment and a share for personal pockets. But it did not do any groundwork before introducing it. The situation is that even its own Allies are opposing it.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Saxena

    These are fair enough points, but why can’t these be discussed in the PARLIAMENT.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Under the Cloak

    Ashish

    When it comes to cloaks, the Hindu Right Wingers have been wearing the Bhagwa Cloak for a longer period than the Red Cloak has ever existed.

    And while we are into needlessly Ms Roy bashing, then be aware that the Bhagwa Cloak also brings with it most unsavoury sympathisers as well as vote banks.

    Now me thinks that you are confusing NE Tribals with Australian Aborigines. Mahua, Bhang, Todi, etc are as ancient as Madhura and it crosses all strata of Indian Society, as it does elsewhere.

    What is the difference in Vijay every evening – moments after he has laughed at his own joke – pouring himself a wee dram, or Dr Mishra overstaying his allotted time in the 19th hole or even me having a Pint of London Pride, and the Tribals having a drink.

    For further enlightenment on this issue, it will be good if you did look into similar predicament faced by the Aborigines in Australia and the Native Americans in the USA.

    There are just as many people who profess the Right being right and left being wrong. To begin a quick count start by looking in the mirror.

    Political Thugs are not exclusive to the LEFT – there are as many of them within the Hindutava movement, I don’t have to name them as I am confident that you know them.

    If you were to become a mass murderer then you are absolutely right in assuming that you will expect some understanding from me. However, I would not describe that as support.

    If you want mindless support, there are others HERE who will be only too willing to provide.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Not for the first time you have let your eloquence run away with your faculties for reason.
    Let us stop this saffron vs red nonsense; the battle of the reds is against the state apparatus- sans any other qualifier.
    Trust you to go off on a tangent on Mahua; while ignoring the substantive points. It is very fashionable to be a bleeding heart intellectual; but not so easy to tackle the hard issues of governnance- which includes both law and order, participative democracy, social security and reaching the fruits of development to all.
    Mindless support? Ahem, mindless rants in opposition, anyone?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish,
    He is not any different from Engrich. According to him all the
    problems are only because of RSS.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    But ofcourse or else they would all be the fault of Congress.

    Words Pot and Kettle readily come to mind.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Will provide considered response later as for the next three days I am dole collecting in Essex, which requires 4 hrs of commuting on top of 9 hr standing in the dole queue.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Many things have been discussed here – the sad stae of red indians and aborigins, why Pak should be nurtured, mao uprisings etc…
    1) Pakistan- We should totally ignore them letting them go through and complete the self destruction process. Many here has said the people are just like us, the issue is with the army. I think people are equally bad. May be they are brainiwashed; but then how can we ‘debrainwash” them.

    We should focus on border security, intelligence gathering. Islamists there and here are major threat to us. Talking about Islamists, we all should be aware of our Govt’s inaility/lack of willingness to onfront these threats – the extremist organization PFI (reincarnation of SIMI) under the leadership of Aboobacker has opened offices in all states, their political wing SDPI contests elections in south and north india. All the people arrested in connection with the chopping off the professor’s hand here are PFI members. saudi money ahnd Salafi organization m oney flows to them (helping them open 300 plus offices all across in three months).
    It is six months plus since the Mumbai jewelry dist explosion, three months since the Delhi high court explosion; we have not found out who did these, let alone prevent these types of attacks — i do agree prevention is too difficult and too expensive.
    2) Mao violence – Huge funds are allocated for inclusive growth, laws about the use/abuse of land are there; but the corrupt politicians and offficials and businessmen use their muscles – Maoists should kill a couple of ministers, elected reps, or senior bureaucrats — things will change. Nothing will change by killing jawans and teachers — I belive people like Kishan are in the pockets of the mining lobby. Some encounters here, some there; mining cos can continue their extraction with nobody checking on ..
    3) The real problem of the day is how the Euro and US recession will impact our growth. The rupee declined 7-10%, which is bound to further increase inflation. The decline is due to the demand for dollar that cannot be met by the normal european bank credit lines due to the banking and economic issues there.

    T

    h

    e

    4

    3

    0

    0

    t

    h

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Disqus threw me off–
    The $300 plus billion foreign reserves is not much and eeded to service the 8% growth. The FDI in retail is a good move, at a minimum the opposition should allow it in the agricultural/food scctor 1) to eliminate the quantum wastage 2) to have a network of refrigerated storage/distribution centres 3) to reduce the price 4) to improve the lot of the producers etc. We have escaped the 2008-2010 recession; but we may not be able to accommodate the current downfall of european union and USa. Hell will break loose here if we go back to the nehru/indira days of 2-3% growth.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    As usual you have written a sensible post.

    If you time I would love to read your views on DAM 999.
    Tks.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Your views seems to have fallen on deaf ears of our political class.

    Anyway the debate especially regarding FDI shifts to the new blog.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    2) Mao violence – Huge funds are allocated for inclusive growth

    they are not fighting for growth.they are fighting for right.can we give.can we stop encroachment of their land and stealing their natural wealth.
    main question is this.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    ravi ashish shan and gopi,good article by mr rajshekhar,

    On our first visit to study the naxalite problem in Chattisgarh (Sept.23-25, 2006), we were able to gather lot of information from the series of meetings we had at Raipur with journalists, Dalit and Tribal leaders, and some NGOs.

    For the first time the Prime Minister himself in his Aug.15 “Independence Day” speech admitted the naxalite problem as a “national problem” and equated it with “terrorism”. But we don’t agree with his assessment. Naxalism is also terrorism and the two should not be separated but fought with equal determination.

    Since India’s ruling upper castes (15%) are mainly urban-based and “terrorism” is an urban problem, they are forcing the govt. to concentrate only on “terrorism” (read Muslims).

    UPPER CASTE LEADERSHIP

    However, not much importance is given to naxalism because the urban areas, where most upper castes live, are not affected. Urbanites are not interested in anything rural though naxalism is affecting a major portion of India and the Chattisgarh and AP states are the worst hit.

    Both terrorism and naxalism are by-products of acute socio-cultural-economic deprivation which is affecting at least half the population of India. But the govt. is treating naxalism as a police problem.

    The entire naxalite foot soldiers are our village-dwelling people — SC/ST/BCs, landless labourers or small farmers —who constitute over 65% of the country’s population and the worst deprived lot. The upper castes having scented the deep discontentment within the SC/ST/BCs exploited these innocents and taken over their leadership.

    Both the Peoples War Group (PWG) and the Moist Communist Centre (MCC), now merged and renamed Maoist Party, are headed by Brahminical upper castes. But those fighting and falling dead facing police bullets are our people. That is why we are deeply worried.

    The defeat of the BJP in the last election has made the upper castes realise that it is difficult to fool the oppressed SC/ST/BCs in the name of religion (Hindutva). But it is easier to exploit the SC/ST/BCs in the name of “class” (naxalism). Give a gun to the angry, deprived SC/ST/BC and make him kill the “class enemy”. And then the police, controlled by the same upper castes, are ready to rush and gun down the “naxalite killer”.

    Naxalism has offered a short-cut to establish Hindutva — better than dividing people on religious basis by dubbing Muslims as terrorists.
    ROLE OF TATAS & RUIAS

    Already the Salwa Judum is fully infiltrated by the Hindu terrorist party RSS cadres. The Tatas and the Marwari Ruias of the Essar Group, interested in mining, are financing the Salwa Judum. Both the Maoists and the Salwa Judum cadres are tribals and they are often made to clash and kill each other. The industrialists are interested in getting Tribal lands vacated to start their mining work.

    Chattisgarh, particularly its capital Raipur, has suddenly started buzzing with industrialists interested in exploiting its mining wealth. The politicians are kept pleased with bribe. Its diamond mine has attracted the world’s No.1 diamond magnates, the De Beers, a South African Jewish business house.

    COURSE CHANGE FOR RSS-BJP

    The RSS-BJP, which is an upper caste outfit, is exploiting the situation. But if it has to shift its focus on Salwa Judum naxalite activities, it will amount to a course change from religion (Hindutva) to “class struggle” which is totally strange to the double-distilled vaidiks controlling this Hindu terrorist party. But the RSS cadres are enthused. Big money is coming from big business and while mingling with innocent Tribals in remote forest areas they get the company of drinks and women. Since the Hindutva heroes do not attach any importance to ethics or morality as the end justifies the means, they are going at full speed.

    We had a meeting with journalists at the Raipur Press Club and being mostly upper castes they complained about the naxalite violence and fully defended the role of Salwa Judum.

    Already over a fifth of India is affected by this Manuwadi marxism of the naxalite brand. Almost the whole of Tribal-dominated Chattisgarh is affected. Right from Nepal down to Karnataka through Andhra Pradesh the Manuwadi Marxists are spreading their naxalite net.

    We have nothing against the naxalite rank and file because they are all our own blood brothers as SC/ST/BCs. Our complaint is only against its upper caste leadership which is misleading them and making them easy victims of police bullets. The principal problem of India is caste system (Brahminism) resulting in socio-cultural-economic deprivation of SC/ST/BCs (65%), Muslim/Christian/Sikhs (20%). Instead of tackling this disease, the govt. is trying to cure the symptom (law and order problem). India is already sinking. The Manuwadi marxists will further push India to the bottom. We admit loopholes in the Salwa Judum which again treats it as a law and order problem. As days pass the rural India is sinking. If the existing police-problem-approach is not changed, the whole country will pass into the hands of Manuwadi marxists.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar (Vijay note the Mask slipping again)

    Who is Mr Rajshekhar?

    Is he a JNU type and therefore sold out his soul for a few coins.

    Is he left leaning so can be easily dismissed.

    Has he ever been Ms Roy’s BF.

    These should be declared at the outset so that one can focus on points rather than personalities.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Your ‘check list’ of attributes can be rolled into one

    Is he a congressi?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Clever.

    What about Trolls, Traitors, Etc

    Anonymous Reply:

    They are also get into the same.

    “Congressi” means all that and much more – jehadi, pro-pakistani, anti-Hindutvawadi, anti-national and unpatriotic, corrupt to the core, etc. etc.

    AshishC Reply:

    VT Rajsekhar is a Dalit activist who founded Dalit Voice- a periodical. It publishes conspiracy theories like why Gavaskar and Tendulkar are brahmins and thus make it into the team and so on
    http://dalitsvoice.blogspot.com/2011/07/unattended-questionnaire-on-caste-in.html
    Read him at your own risk.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste

    YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Still more informative and entertaining than your point less abuses.

    You are totally off your Trolly

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ravi bhai,

    Only after i married a bengali brahmin girl I landed in Bengal and have been ENCOUNTERED by the Scientific Manusmriti apartheid Hegemony best known as Bengali Brahaminical Hegemony, I became Aware of Caste Identity, which I negelected and contested ALL MY LIFE.

  • engrich

    ashish ,ravi and shan,
    read Empires of the Indus by Alice Albinia, published by John Murray
    accornding to him hinduism motherland is pakistan not india.interesting book.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    balwinder jee ,

    What Brahminism did to India?

    Destroyed democracy in India
    Removed equality for women
    Prevented Philosophy and Science from developing.
    Divided people from socializing.
    Made life a misery to most of the population.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Perfect description of Pakistan.

    [Reply]

  • Sohail

    Im the Dim Imran is a closet fundamentalist and probably subscribes to the (saudi) myth of an islamic empire headquartered in the land of the primitive beduins. What Imran cannot get through his thick head is that islam is an outdated man made belief system and simply does not have the solutions to a modern complex world. And muslims ( whether in India or pakistan) are not Mughals but generally ( lower) caste Hindu converts to islam. Im the Dim Imran and his ` defence of pakistan league retards’ the Pol Pot’s of islam would do well to bear that in mind.

    [Reply]

  • Modi Zindabad

    Shallow, vague, cliched rhetoric. We expect something well-researched, and certainly nuanced from you Vir. Get your act together. This piece does not add anything to what is already being talked about – the usual shallow rhetoric!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I think there has been an over use of the term Islamophobia. Everytime a terrorists kills a few innocents in the name of Islam a bunch of motivated people stand up and start crying that in case you blame Muslims, we will call you Islamophobes.

    So the best way out is to tell our Muslim brothers and sisters, that unles you whole heartedly condemn and punish the jahils who create Islamic terror, people will start assuming that you condone their acts, because after all thye claim they are doing it to further Islamic goals.

    [Reply]

  • Kynthiasmith

    Almost every Pakistan leader and Army Officer are always defend the terrorism in Kashmir .They are saying that Its Freedom Fighting in the Favour Kashmir .They are always saying that its Kashmir struggle not terrorism .

    http://www.prlog.org/12116397-ashford-coupon-code-avail-80-off-acquire-soon.html

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    There is a tendency among Indians to believe that Imran Khan would do wonders for India-Pakistan relationship and will quell the terrorists. This is I think partly fueled by the hypnotic appeal 40 year old plus aunties in the Indian media see in him because they once saw Imran the pace bowler coming in to bowl from the pavilion end with wild hair flowing!

    Nothing will be further away from the truth.

    Imran once on the PM seat will use his considerable influence over Indian media to rake up the Kashmir issue, stoke terrorism and play it like a cricket game which can be won by ball tampering

    [Reply]

    Sohail Reply:

    You are possibly right. But Im the Dim imran lacks the intellect to realise that pakistan is an historical mistake. Its perennial existential crisis is due to the fact that it has no basis to exist. It cannot be resolved unless it bites the bullet of its miscreation.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Imran Khan is a an extension of Jamat-e-Islami, a man with terrorist mindset. Let us not forget how he inflamed the passion of religious bigots on Quran burning.

    He is basically an ideological terrorist who should be shunned.

    [Reply]

  • duggal

    —————————————————-

    MODI FICTION : Karnataka Election & Feku Modi -
    —————————————————

    Brothers and Sisters and Mothers. I know you have been waiting with
    bated breath to see my charisma outside my Gujarat. I have just come
    back from Karnataka giving my fiery speech. Ask me “how did it go?”. Ask
    ! Ask me ! Ask me na ! It was mind boggling. I crushed that Ma-Beta
    pair under my feet. You know they were no match to my charisma. The
    flood that started in Gujarat now going to wash away karnataka. The
    whole country will see what this Gujarati can do. Imagine that Sonia and
    her that son Pappu were trying to challenge I,ME,MYSELF Modi ! Now,
    they will have to lick the soil before your Gujarat Ashmita ! The whole
    country will bend before Gujarat Ashmita ! Imagine people doubting my
    capability ! They think if my charm did not work in Uttarakhand and
    Himachal, then it will not work in Karnataka ! I will show these
    congressis and that golden spoon fed Rahul what’s the charismatic power
    of I,ME,MYSELF Modi ! Now they are counting. I heard these congressis
    manipulate these voting machines. I have asked Amit Shah to use his
    underworld connections to keep eye on the Election Commission. I have
    asked Gadkari to threaten those election commission officers with “dire
    consequence” when we come to power. They must not think Sonia and her
    Son can protect from us.

    My Brothers and Sisters and Mothers ! Please switch on your TV’s and
    Radio’s and Internet’s and Mobile’s and clap. The Karnataka state
    election goes in favour of BJP, thanks to your favourite I,ME,MYSELF
    Modi. I have got my party BJP “239 seats” in Karntaka Assembly ! It was
    all my own I,ME,MYSELF Modi Charisma ! Hey !! Call my PR Agency !!! Ask
    my internet soldiers to bombard the internet with my victory. India must
    learn to market. Without brand, we are nothing !!!

    This is not MODI FICTION at all. This is only MODIfication. : Feku Modi

    —–
    copied from net

    [Reply]

  • duggal

    ———————————————

    MODI FICTION : Electoral Mathematics & Feku Modi

    ———————————————

    Brothers and Sisters and Mothers. I know you all are a little
    disappointed with the Karnataka Election result. But it’s not my fault.
    Ask my “why”? Ask me ! Ask me na ! See I gave 3 speeches. Just 3
    speeches in 3 days. This got the BJP 40 seats. Imagine what would have
    happened had I given 30 speeches ! Tell me. Tell me. Tell me na ! It’s
    simple mathematics.

    3 speeches = 40 seats

    30 speeches = 40 x 10 = 400 seats

    Do you understand the problem ? The karnataka assembly does not have
    enough seats to accomodate all these 400 MLA’s. My Brothers and Sisters
    and Mothers ! Now, you understand why I did not give more speeches !!
    Had your I,ME,MYSELF Modi given more speeches, I would have had
    problem with the excess MLA’s. Then they would have forced the Gujarat
    assembly to accomodate those extra MLA’s and conduct the business though
    my 3D projection system from the Gujarat Assembly. How much sacrifice
    Gujarat has to make for this country !!!

    This is not MODI FICTION at all. This is only MODIfication. : Feku Modi

    -
    copied from net

    [Reply]

    ROOPESH KUMAR Reply:

    HUm tera peecha nahi choddenge soniye

    This man above is a rs 1 a posting paid cheer leader of the Sanjay Jha team of posting **** to support congress

    [Reply]

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