Making up mind on lokpal bill



I hold no strong views on the respective merits of the competing lok pal bills. Perhaps Anna Hazare and gang are right and perhaps the government draft is useless. Perhaps Salman Khursheed, Kapil Sibal and company have the more reasonable position and their draft is more workable. I really don’t know enough to make an informed judgment.

My concern is with a sidelight to the debate: the call for a referendum on the issue.

As you probably know, a referendum is like an election except that voters are not asked to choose between competing candidates but competing ideas. Instead of being asked “Do you like candidate A or candidate B”, they are asked something like “Do you think homosexuals should be allowed to teach in schools or should they be denied such jobs?”

The traditional view of referendums is that they have no place in representative democracy. The classic position is that electors choose representatives on the basis of electoral platforms and then leave it to them to make decisions on their behalf. If the legislators consistently take the wrong decisions – or at any rate, decisions that electors strongly disagree with – then they are voted out at the next election.

This position, established through the centuries, has been the subject of much debate with some people arguing for a greater say for the electorate (through such methods as referendums) and others opposing it on the grounds that such methods lead to mob rule, populism and flip judgments.

In some countries however, referendums and elections take place side by side. In Switzerland, voters are often asked for their opinions on issues. In American states, contentious issues (such as the example I have given above about homosexual teachers in schools) are also often resolved through referendums.

The great hold-out, for many years, was Britain, which held fast to the classic principles of representative democracy. For instance, even though opinion polls showed that a vast majority of voters were in favour of hanging criminals and ensuring that homosexuality remained illegal, Parliament went ahead and abolished capital punishment and made consenting acts between same-sex adults legal. These were not popular decisions at the time but the basis of representative democracy is that legislators do what they regard as right rather than what is considered popular.

By and large, this position has been maintained though there have been exceptions. Britain held a referendum on membership of the European Economic Community in the Seventies and more recently, another one about reforming the voting system.

You could argue that the voting referendum was valid: if an electoral system itself is perceived to be unfair then its opponents can hardly entrust their fate to that system. (In the event, the referendum resulted in a victory for the existing system). But the Europe referendum went against all principles of representative government and remains an aberration.

Our own position in India has been analogous to the traditional British position. Whatever there has been pressure on us to hold a plebiscite (i.e. a referendum) in the Kashmir Valley we have argued that as the people of Kashmir vote at Assembly and Parliamentary elections, that is proof enough if their intentions. If they have problems with Delhi, their elected representatives will take them up in the legislature and in Parliament.

Faced with the demand for a referendum from the Hazare camp, the Indian government has fallen back on the classic defences: it is not part of our system; if we agree to referendum on the provisions of a bill to set up an ombudsman then how can we logically refuse a referendum to the Kashmiris; and there are many other more important issues that can be put to a vote other than drafts of bills if we are going to change our system to allow referendums.

Faced with these constitutional arguments from lawyers like Khursheed and Sibal, the Hazare camp has resorted to opinion polls.

Now, anybody in the newspaper business will tell you what journos think of opinion polls. We like them because they make for good stories. But we don’t trust them. In too many cases (internet polls, SMS polls, etc.) the samples are self-selecting. Even when the samples are scientifically chosen, the polls are often wrong. People don’t fully understand the issues (bill drafts, for instance) when they are polled and change their minds when more information is provided. Or they give careless answers. Or they lie.

Whenever we commission a poll survey, we lose sleep at nights because we know that despite the lakhs that we have spent on the poll, we may well be wrong. And sure enough, even exit polls frequently get it wrong in India.

So I am intrigued by the use of an opinion poll as an instrument of public policy. Nevertheless I am prepared to concede that if questions are asked in a certain way (“Is it right that the PM should get away even though all other ministers are covered by an anti-corruption mechanism” etc.), the Hazare gang will come out tops in opinion polls in most urban constituencies.

But there is an inherent tension in their approach. One reason offered by proponents of representative democracy (though, of course, it is phrased much more politely) for not letting the entire electorate decide on every issue is that ordinary voters frequently don’t understand complex issues and make the wrong choices.

This view has – till now, at least – been echoed by the Hazare camp. Anna Hazare even declared that if he stood for election, he would lose his deposit. And the general attitude of his people has been that the electorate makes the wrong choices anyway so we shouldn’t worry too much about what Parliament says. (If you don’t like a Parliamentary bill, then just make a bonfire of it.)

So why now is there this sudden faith in opinion polls and in the views of the electorate as a whole?

If Hazare believes that voters vote unwisely (and presumably he doesn’t think he deserves to lose his deposit), then why are his people demanding that complex legal documents should be submitted to this same unwise electorate for its opinion?

If these electors can’t even send us the right MPs and MLAs then how will they choose between draft bills?

I don’t think there is any simple answer to this question. Hazare must know that this issue will have less impact outside of urban constituencies and he must know that if a referendum is held he may well lose. (If he could win a nation-wide referendum for his platform, then he certainly could get elected to Parliament and not lose his deposit).

So why is the issue being raised?

I have no idea.

But here’s my guess. The Hazare camp doesn’t really want to alter the balance of the Constitution of India and insist on government-by-referendum. The demand for the referendum, like the opinion polls, is no more than a pressure tactic.

It is just one more way of piling on the pressure.

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  • Satish Kumar Shukla

    “Anna Hazare and gang”

    “Salman Khursheed, Kapil Sibal and company”

    Wah! Going by word connotations, this author reveals all.

    That this nation is led by minion minds is all so very clear from the goings on.

    That these so called ‘intellectual guns’ are damp squibs is the real new thing.

    A selfless man who in this degenerate day and at his this advanced age repeats Gandhi leads a ‘gang’.

    Selfish men, at that ugly sycophants- their sole qualification to be ministers- are treated with the ‘respectable’ sobriquet ‘company’.

    I stopped reading any further, so Vir Sanghvi knows.

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    Sanjiv Reply:

    Me too. I also stopped reading any further. This shows who is afraid of the GANG. Vir, if still you can, just feel sorry for the folly you have committed.

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    sadhu vedant muni jain Reply:

    i am not agree with the writer on some issues. in our country democracy- have 4 LIMBS- 1 PM.MPS, MINISTERS,2 OFFICIALS 3 JUDICIARY 4 CORPORATE. i am not including medias, journalists, T V news channels. because they are acting as a prostitute. they have lost their integrity, morality, honesty and well as trust man ship . now what we want to eradicate 1 corruptions 2 bribery 3 black money .4delayed official working. these things are not easily eradicate in this country due to many reasons . now see the fun 1 COLLECTOR means he collects from all departments, DIRECTORATE means every transactions in directly, SECRETARIAT ALL DEALINGS IN SECRETLY. MINISTERIAL IN MYSTERY LEVEL now there are 4 stages of coi do agree with writer on some points . we know in our country rules for fools. at present 4 limbs of the rruptions- when a person goes to any office some will create1 APPATTI(OBJECTION)2THEN MISERY ON APPLICANTS STARTS (VIPPATTI) 3NOW NEGOTIATION WILL START SO WE WILL GIVE MONEY MEANS SAMPATTI (BRIBERY)4 THEN SATISFACTIONS TO BOTH SIDES MEANS ( SANTUSHTI)
    NOW 4 LIMBS are based on corruptions. they are for money. expense money and earn money. what is the role of ANNA AND HIS TEAM. they are ready to prepare the drafts and they submitted. G O I ignored and presented own draft. in the house M PS are only illegible for discussions. they corrupts are not easily digest the drafts, more than 70% M PS are unknown and unaware of the bill.they are the blind followers of the party and there will be no personal interest because they do not want the bill.we want change but we can talk. those have power not interested to execute the bill.that means NA NAU MAN TEL HOGA AUR NA RADHA NACHEGI.
    I am not against the desires of ANNA G . but at present we are facing epidemic of corruptions. infections are deep seated. medicinal treatment is failed so need of surgical treatments. when doctors are not competent and medicines are not there, and surgeons are not ready to operate so patient will die. since more than 42 years research is on lokpal bill is going one. under trial we are alive.
    one thing is there corruptions like diseases are incurable. if a patient and disease is incurable so there is no need of worry to doctor. if doctor treats incurable patient and disease so there are 4 disadvantages 1 education,2 popularity,3 no money 4 angeriness of the attendants
    now wait and watch. i think the fate of the bill be like previously .BUT WE ARE STILL HOPEFUL AGAINST HOPE, WE HAVE NOT GIVEN UP HOPE, WE ARE STILL OPTIMISTIC..

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  • Singh

    Stupid argument by Vir!!

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  • rr

    I do not think that the article reflects a true picture. There are some quotes that seems to be taken out of context. People living in rural India or urban India…anywhere in India are not fools. Every one understand what this topic and fight stands for. Infact the problem was complex, solution is simple. Now if people like you want to make it complex, you are making fool of yourself.

    What Anna says is correct and people stand by him. Go out have a fast for couple of days and then you will understand about this fight. Hope two days of fasting give some food for thought to you.

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    sawhney Reply:

    VERY WELL WRITTEN ARTICLE .HAS LOGIC IN THE ARGUMENTS PUT FORWARD BY SINGHVI

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  • CorruptSystem

    Any layman will understand what each bill stands for if you explain them in simple terms. I think Vir Singhvi is trying to confuse others by raising extraneous concerns rather than comparing the merits and demerits. Any stupid can understand that the governments bill is not for rooting out the corruption. It is for the corrupt and by the corrupt.

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  • Candor

    Vir dared to write “Anna Hazare and Gang” but did not say gang named Congress. Voting out is no solution for corrupt. Who will punish them for financial bungling and corruption? All people want PM under the purview of law and want constitution to be amended to delete the clause of permission required from President to prosecute PM. Vir proves he is also a pet of Congress but not raising issue of what should be done if someone cause loss to the country to the tune of 50 billions dollars in 2G and CWG? Hindustan Times is blot in the name of journalism and neutrality.

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    Prasun Reply:

    Lets cut the “gang” bit for now. But is Anna a saint?

    btw HT isnt a blot on journalism and neutrality. They have the courage to provide the other view. And hey, there IS a different view from the billions of Anna supporters :) Billions did I say? Well at least in the mind of the few bloggers who keep posting vitriol and much else in the comments pages against anyone who has the temerity to even suggest a different view.

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    Das Reply:

    To Prasun,

    No Anna is not Saint, in fact compared with average Congress minister, PM, MP and their agents like Sanghvi Anna is God.

    As far courage to provide other view, let us not make virtue out of necessity of typical dull, greedy and amoral congress supporters. FYI, it is not courage it is hard cash! Just ask Sanghvi, if we wont then just go and check Radia tapes.

    Yes, a few bloggers! But remember it takes drops to make a torrent. It would be foolish to dismiss this righteous indignation.

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    Niraj Manglam Reply:

    Well said Candor

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    inderjit singh Reply:

    The problem is that of the mindset of these self claimed crusaders for removal of corruption. They are trying to piggy back a perennial issue to get noticed as they were ignored by people at large and authorities due to their rigid ideas and arrogant behavior of the past. Unfortunately, some political parties are providing them support from outside, just to malign the present government.
    This group of people are arrogant and believe that only they are right and the government and the parliament shall henceforth relinquish their constitutional authority and give in to their demands.
    I think the parliament is the best judge to determine the course of action to be taken in this matter of demolishing the menace of corruption and no amount of demonstrations, threats and arson organized by this gang of people shall deter them in performing their constitutional duties and come up with the best way to curb the menace of corruption. All the best.

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    sanju Reply:

    you still believing any constitution in india .everyday they sipping poor people’s money.may be people getting benefitted from govt they writing these kind of things .shame on those people.we all with Annaji .Jai hind

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    Aditya Aggarwal Reply:

    I am convinced that corruption is a big problem in India ( and most other countries).
    Corruption will ultimately lead to enslavement. People who are the beneficiaries of corruption are like the “Jaichands”(the only historical name that comes to mind right now-although there are many more) who do not care what harm they inflict on the country or the societies they are part of. But their future generations suffer from their actions.

    Minus the corruption, life will be a lot easier for the common man.

    Who is this common man? And how will be life easier for him/her?

    For a pointer I believe inflation will be halved and the common man will be able to afford “Bread”. He/she does not aspire for “Cake”

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    corruptcongress Reply:

    Well said. Congressi paper and congressi generalists. It seems some media is also not unaffected by corruption and is quite happy to continue being in corruption as it might be benefiting them. I think Lokpal should also include media corruption under its purview. Earlier media was treated as impartial judges in reporting the matter. It has quite degraded now.

    We don’t know who is putting this negative spin in the media to show Hazare team in a bad light. Most probably it is the nexus of business, babus, netas in the government AND MEDIA who have a vested interest to keep things as they are. I think the Hazar team is cohesive and diligent. They are doing their homework properly. The finger of suspicion shall point to the government netas and the nexus who have a lot to hide and a lot to lose if a strong Lok Pal bill comes into law.

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    Rajshekhar Reply:

    Dear MR Vir Singhvi
    When you say “I really don’t know enough to make an informed judgment.” – it makes my day.
    Your slip is showing.
    One of your weakest journalistic article. Please keep it safely.
    From here, you have only one way, up.
    Up in life, Up as a journalist.
    Regards

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    subhash Reply:

    He is on the side of the highest bidder. At least he is a man of principles.

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    Dinesh Reply:

    A DALLAL from Gang.

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  • b.p.gupta

    Team Anna is expecting too much how the people making law will like to make a law which makes them accountable only a national referrendam can help

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    Shree Reply:

    It seems this time Vir has taken a dictation from either Sibal or Khursheed !!

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  • NRI

    I can not understand the need for the pressure tactics of Anna Hazare and his gang of unethical and frustrated wannabees. Why can’t everyone wait for the current bill to become law, check if it is effective and then amend it, if necessary. If this country can not elect one honest PM, where will it find an honest Lokpal? And how can an Anna be an extra and super constitutional authority in a parliamentary set up?

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  • Simple Indian

    Referendums may not be feasible or affordable for a large and poor country like India. It is alright for a much smaller Switzerland or Britain to hold referendums or plebiscites as they have a much smaller population to cater to. With elections every 5 years itself a huge drain on our exchequer, referendums for a billion plus people is not the answer. However, there has to be checks and balances in place for reigning in ‘rogue’ representatives of people, who individually or collectively start acting against the larger interest of public. Take for example the salary raises given by MPs to themselves every couple of years, with no link to their performances whatsoever. Shouldn’t there be a public view on that ? After all, it’s the tax-payers’ money which will be siphoned off in this benevolent way.
    Unfortunately, our wise and learned founding fathers of the Constitution of India reposed too much faith among their ilk, and that has led to this anarchic state of affairs in the country. The politicians are the only class of people who are accountable to none (unless the Higher Judiciary takes up cases in public interest litigations) and have had a free run with rampant nepotism and corruption which has permeated to the lowest levels of the government. It’s next to impossible to get a simple work done at a government office without paying ‘due consideration’ to the officials concerned.
    Had our Constitution been more like the US one – where the Administration is separate from the Executive – we would have had a lot more accountability in politics and public service. There is nothing wrong in making necessary changes in our Constitution and laws to address challenges which we all face in modern times – perhaps which were not envisaged by our learned makers of the Constitition post-1947. We can’t allow a flawed Constitution to become and remain a millstone around our necks forever. It is high time we encourage crusaders like Anna Hazare, who seek systemic changes to deep-rooted flaws within the system. Anna’s team may have employed controversial means to this end, but their intentions remain honourable. We must respect that.

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  • http://rediffmail.com Rajesh Kumar Jha

    The need of the hour is to make the proposed Lokpal strong. In a bid to make it an effective body, we should bring everyone within its ambit. Sadly, like our Constitution which is replete with so many ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ and in the process, we have the longest and the largest Constitution in the world, which we have adopted from every possible sources, this Lokpal, too, with so many reservations may turn a toothless body finally. Remember, if you want to stem the tide of corruption, you have to act against the rich and the mighty. Exclusion and exception will kill the spirit of the Bill.

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    Vijay Kumar Reply:

    Hmmm why dont we just dump democracy? The “civil” society doesnt think much about it. The opposition behaves as if does not exist – at least inside parliament. The congress keeps wondering what went wrong to its predictable world and getter deeper and deeper in ****

    We could have ruling gang of Magsaysay winners – after all civil society represent people’s views- ruling the country with an iron fist. Or does it?

    And then initiate a witch hunt to recover all the loot. The economy may turn to shambles, but at least we are carrying out the people’s wishes!!

    Be careful with what you want …..

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    Gaurav Kaushik Reply:

    Questioning the nous for writing this piece will detract me from focussing on central theme of this blog. It is emphasised since ours is representative type of democracy based on UK we should follow UK’s example where the blog suggests that referendums are not the norm so, we should also believe that referendums can not be solution. Let me give the history of UK on referendums -
    1973 If NIreland should be part of UK or not
    1975 Whether UK should stay in Europe Commission (EEC)
    1979 devolution referendum in Wales & Scotland
    1997 Scottish people vote ‘Yes’ to Scottish Parliament and Wales say ‘Yes’ to an elected assembly
    1998 London to have an assembly and mayor NIreland votes ‘Yes’ to accept agreement with IRA and Ireland
    2001 More than 30 referendums take place in local authorities that votes ‘No’ to directly elected mayors
    2004 Referendums in Northern England votes ‘No’ for regional elected assemblies
    2011 Referendum took place and voted No for voting reform
    Given UK is very ancient, one can question why the referendums are here from 1973. I can only guess that democracy is moving towards more interaction with the electorates in recent times. Of course similar things are happening across the world. Canada had referendum on splitting Canada into two – English and French part in 90s and Australia too had on abolishing monarchy and becoming republic. In both countries, citizens voted for the status quo to stay put. In US, since 1904 till 2007 some 2231 state wide referendums initiated by citizens were held in the USA. 909 of these initiatives have been approved. Perhaps even greater is the number of such referendums called by state legislatures or mandatory – 600 compared to 311 civic initiatives in 2000-2007. On Europe, there have several treaties and in various countries referendums have taken place. In Ireland, there were referendum in 2009 to adapt European constitution and there were french and dutch referendums in 2005. I could go on and also bring about Swiss way of democracy.
    Indian democracy is very-2 flawed. The constituent only approaches MPs and MLA when they need some favour but they will whinge about the laws but together they never have a chance to petition their representative. So, in return, representative never goes back to the people who elected him in the first place and cynicism for democracy grows due to this disconnect. No wonder all people young and old have scorn for politicians. The democracy is not taking root in India in spite of those 60 years. There could have been several referendums in India which would have helped politicians also like in Telengana or earlier splitting of other states. All that bloodshed, acrimony, loss of life and property could have been avoided. You brought the issue that in UK parliament, the death penalty was voted to be removed and homosexuality accepted without doing any referendums in UK. Yes, you are right about that Tony Blair, the PM thought that UK will appear out of place if most public votes No to accept the homosexuality and retains death penalty. UK will look out of place in 21st century in the world. He still made a provision that if there are 1 lakh petitioners about some issue, it can be debated by the house of parliament. So, death penalty is still debated on radio stations from time to time and some organisation is hoping to get 1 Lakh signatures for it. Removal of hunting is similarly passionately debated. The Scottish cessation referendum will take place in next 3/4 years as the opposition party has won there. For Europe the threshold for petitioning is 1 million. In US, there are 3 things initiative, popular and legislative referral. In initiative – any citizen or organization may gather pre-determined number of signatures and can force a ballot so that citizens directly vote on legislation. Then there is a popular referendum to repeal a law passed by legislature and in legislature referral legislature puts proposed legislation up for popular vote itself where if constitutional amendment etc can be voted for directly by citizens.
    Now, think of Indian constitutional amendments. There have been 94 of them so far. Why not even one amendment has been voted by the public directly. Between a term of 5 years, there are hundreds of issues on which laws are made. Some are very flawed. The flaws are only found by the courts and then, the judgement of court acts as an amendment or repeal of the flawed act. Should democracy work like that knowing full well that courts are almost dysfunctional in India due to amount of cases in them and number of them in existence. No wonder homosexuality in India was brought is by the court acceptance and not the parliament because they did not have the courage to debate the issue. This blog has also brought Kashmir in this debate so that the route to referendum could be avoided as almost all Lokpal supporter will say – no referendum in Kashmir. In my view, there would not have been a better time for Kashmir referendum than now when joining Pakistan would proved suicidal for Kashmiris as Pakistan has become a basket case. Even those who are forever clamouring for Kashmir independence would have found to their dismay that Ladakh and Jammu would not have wanted independence. So, all this shying away from referendum on Kashmir could have been put to rest by govt. But for that you needed to believe in the tool of survey which you seem to dismiss it out of hand. It has been used virtually in all countries successfully. It fails in India because sample sizes are very small. Kesriwal wanted referendum in Chandni Chowk to be done by such external agencies but they were not prepared to deal with the sample size of as big as a constituency. In 1977, before elections Indira got some surveys done and somehow the survey showed that she was going to win election only to face a landslide defeat shortly after. The reason was the survey was confined only to certain areas in country besides being of small sample sizes. I also felt that perhaps people were not prepared to tell their real feelings due to emergency being in place. In UK, in ‘93, against all surveys and exit polls John Major defeated Neil Kinnock. Reason was not so much in survey errors. The poll outcome was within the margin of error of survey as both parties were not miles apart from each other. In case of Lokpal, one can rest assured, there is going to be only one winner – Anna. There is another issue about media not trying to judge the Bill. I can understand that this may be due to the need to retain neutrality for both camps. Though, I do not see it but seeing disdain on the show for one side by calling it a gang shows that neutrality has been thrown out of the window along with the need to judge the merits of a bill.

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  • http://www.pramodtrivedi.blogspot.com/ PRAMOD KUMAR TRIVEDI

    Vir Singhvi has exposed himself to be a yes man of Congress.He has not raised any issue of the Adarsh Housing scam, Nrega Scam, 2 G scam, CWG scam, Madhu Koda Scam, and how much exchequer the Government has lost.H e does not have the right of talking about Anna Hazare and his team.We believe in Gandhian way of protest and hopefully it has gone well with the people(excluding Vir Singhvi and few journalists , who are yes man of Congress).The real test of peoples mind will start coming from 16th August.The Silence of people should never be construed as Anna and his teams Weakness.Speak about corrupt politicians, speak about if Prime Minister, Judiciary, Beauracracy , can be put in the ambit of LokPal or not.

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    Tally Reply:

    Hazard gang not only makes amazing statements but has made huge wealth for themselves by exploiting the system to their advantage. Let them get elected & run the govt with full responsibility & enact laws to run thie country but till such time let the existing parliament do it’s job. I make this statement with full sense responsibility that lokpal bill will not eredicate corruption. This will be pen more organization to
    run on tax payer money.

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    RSh Reply:

    Democracy is of the people by the people for the people, and NOT of the dynasty by the dynasty for the people.
    Constitution is simply the will of people. One issue may be right in one country may not be right in other country, because the majority of people mandated accordingly. Therefore, putting Lokpal bill to refrendum may not be a bad idea. At least that will be what the majority of people want.
    Another point, refrendum is for the entire country and not for a part of the country. Therefore a regional issue should not brought in that region only in a free country. Those types of issues should be open to the entire nation if needed.

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    Rocky Reply:

    Kasmir referendum is entirely a different subject than the one on Lokpal bill. The former questions the bases of the unity of territorial India which is not up for discussion anymore. Referendums on how to rule ourselves are a good thing and should be an integral part of any democracy. Yes, it is correct that the elections are held for the same purpose. However, elections are held only at certain intervals whereas referendums can be conducted at any time when the governance goes haywire. Hats off to Anna to point out glaring deficiencies in the Sibal sponsored Lokbal bill. It is good to turn on heat to our insular government whenever it seem to be deviating from the path of good governance.

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  • Josh

    I have certain agreements and disagreements on this article. Vir is right that the genuinty of polls is known to all those related to field. But, very shrewdly he has selected only those points that he wants to show to the world. In a way, he is working like the way he has mentioned in his article “We like them because they make for good stories. But we don’t trust them. In too many cases (internet polls, SMS polls, etc.) the samples are self-selecting. ” He has also done the same and became selecive only. But he is forgeting that businesses and people who do this dont thrive long, only Indian politicians have that abilities.
    Whatever efforts congress, sibal or vir will put on, people will not change their thoughts…the only problem is:: indian janta does not have power, we indians are like that only……so u , vir n congress n every one is taking the advantage of this…..lets c, when will we see a bhagat or a bose – ready to do a rang de basanti act…..till that time, Vir u njy by making money through all this false jornalism …..

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  • HPN

    Vir Sanghvi has not learnt a bit from from his recent ignominy. He believes he is such a great intellectual he can call “Anna Hazare and his gang” and “Sibal and his company” and get away with it. You will never understand, that like you, Kapil Sibal is left with zero credibility in the public eye because of his”zero loss” statement. Poll done in Sibal’s constituency truly reflects public opinion. If 100 % people have not opted for everything in Jan lokpal Bill, it is because they have different opinion on certain issues.For example, it is not necessary to bring all employees in the ambit of the Lokpal. Make all Group A officers accountable for the corruption of their subordinates. They will start doing their duty. The Supreme Court should be kept outside of Lokpal as it is this very court which is to take a final view on removal of Lokpal.

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    Ganesh S Reply:

    First of all,there is no ignominy.Get out of this lynch – mob mentality.Anna Hazare may be an anti corruption crusader but other members of his team have been making amazing statements.In April we were told by Mr Arvind Kejriwal that civil society wants power without responsibiity or accountability and that is why they dont contest elections.The other day we heard him say on a TV channel that elections have nothing to do with democracy.The views of Swami Agnivesh would be more interesting but that is another point.These referendums have no point in being made a reference point.Instead Anna and his team should appear before the standing committee of the parliament and make their case.Why do they ridicule the entire political class and entire government and the entire system so openly ? Why are they shy of parliament ? Government s bill may be rubbish.So let the parliament reject it.What does Anna mean by his statement that if he had continued his fast for three more days,government would have fallen ? First signs of megalomania – so typical of so called civil society.Those middle class Indians whose support they claim to have should go and vote and vote out this government. Sorry,system,government and parliament may be having many chinks in their armour but surely time has not come for bypassing them.Even if we bypass them,whom do we have as leaders ? This motley bunch ? Never.

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    Just an Indian Reply:

    Come on! Magsaysay awardees cannot be motley much! They have only one aim – to get a life!

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    corruptcongress Reply:

    Its high time that we in India stop treating MP, PM, Judges etc as Gods who can not be questioned. Anybody and everybody can be questioned and all should be accountable.
    The most important thing is there is nothing in government’s version for the relief of common man. If I have to pay the bribe where can I lodge a complaint?? There is no institutional support in the government’s version for victims of corruption. Another congressi HT correspondent trying to give a positive spin to government version of lokpal which is a jokepal. Do you really believe that government will ever act against itself until or unless there is a massive public pressure? Either you are a congress supporter or a beneficiary of corruption who have interests in keeping the same system.

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    Tarun Reply:

    First of all, this argument that “if one wants to change the system become a part of it” is flawed to the core. If someone is not satisfied with the way a builder has made a building, the solution is not to become an engineer oneself and construct on his/her own. Politics is a job of huge responsibility. If the policies are not in the favour of the general population, then the answer is not in every one becoming a politician.

    The parliamentary system of democracy that we have has become increasingly flawed with the ruling party no longer representing the population of the country. The party with maximum votes usually does not have enough votes to have absolute majority in the house. The coalitions, UPA, NDA are most often partnerships of convenience where the minority partner always manages to blackmail the majority partner into unfavourable policies. I do not know what is the solution to this, but the ruling party absolutely does not represent the country’s views. The claim that parliament is supreme has become just as a convenient excuse for the coalition to trample over everyone and drive home politically loaded agenda.

    The so called megalomania is the corruption of mind of the elected class with unlimited power to frame any law unquestioned. Short term memory of the masses is exploited to the hilt and all development schemes take forefront focus only months before the election. So, incumbent government has to royally mess up things to loose an election. All this direct and indirect propaganda is just desperation because facades of non-corrupt nature of politicians is being torn apart publicly. I would categorize this article in the category of indirect attack on Anna and group.

    The way in which the corrupt leaders are being protected and defended, it is complete and absolute breakdown of morale. There is no question of bypassing the elected class of people, but to have a check on them is not at all parallel governance. If individual statements of people from each camp are taken, then there have been equally irresponsible and immature statements from both camps. What counts is what is brought to the table.

    Whom do we trust in times when every second politician and every other political party is trying to win the cup of the biggest scam ever ? The same politicians who keep defending their corrupt pals ? Never !

    [Reply]

    bobby sen Reply:

    The government rarely discusses merits or demerits of Lokpal Bill and hides behind technicality. Journalists are mostly helping government in this. It is a surprise to see so much fear of independent and resourceful Lokpal in journalist community. It is alomost like a government journalist nexus here.

    Das Reply:

    How can anyone expect a person on payroll of a political party to present a neutral or baanced view? One would foolish to do so. Indian media like HT and their so-called journalists are doing exactly that. Mr Sanghvi and his Congress brethrens have it seems are inventing entirely new meaning of democracy, which in all but name is fixed term dictatorship.

    His statement “If these electors can’t even send us the right MPs and MLAs then how will they choose between draft bills?” really takes the biscuit. It is clear that he believes that Indian electoral are daft and thertefore should not be trusted. If that is the case Vir Sanghvi then then why should we just stop at referenda, since the electorate according to you are fools then why have elections at al.

    But we all know, except paid agents and benefactor of Congress rotten misrule, that the electorate should have total, constant and complete control over the elected. You, like your ilk Manish Towaris, Singhvis and others, forget that those who hold political power are elected by, and accountable to, the people. The democracy does not mean that the elected have free licence to act as they wish, against the wishes of the electorate, and use flimsy excuses like the ones Sanghvi has used to misrule.

    Amit Garg Reply:

    Ganesh,

    I think you should read about team of Anna Hazare / Arvind Kejriwal and comment.. Generally I am no big fan of all so called social activists.. But having read about their team it looks like it is made of common man… One of them who moved me is journalist who has taken holiday without pay from Navbharat times to devote himself completely to IAC.. He only spent 2 hours with his newly born child.. Such is the dedication of their team and atleast they deserve our moral support..

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    Shakeel Ahmad Reply:

    I completely agree with Vir. First time i saw a media wrote something different but this article will not make much noise because it is not sponsored by west countries. People who support doesn’t know anything about lokpal bill. they just believe what media has presented. These news are sponsored by our enemies like pakis and west who want to destabilize our country which is consistently progressing and has become one of the best econmy in the world. and they can’t see our country on top of the world. People say after lokpal bill corruption will be vanished..can anyone explain how? Is in the current setup corruption is allowed? what will happen if the people involved in lokpal bill become corrupt? will u think of lokpal version2 then? we have to correct ourselves to make any rule successful. Anna’s movement will just bring the instability in country..investor will start moving away from us…share market will again shake btwn 5k to 6k points..this will ultimately result in more youths jobless.our enemies trying to bring the same situation that happened in middle east. their movement have thrown out the govts but where these countries stand today? These countries have been pushed back 10 years behind. Please wake up and think about india..Dont make decision that can make our country weak…we have to correct ourselves to fight the corruption..we should not be ready always to pay extra to our work easier, fight for it. that will remove the corruption.

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  • Gautam Kumar

    I don’t wish to comment much on Anna’s Lokpal proposals. Suffice it to say it reminds me a bit of George Orwell’s “1984″ (George Orwell). The impact on governance and administrative delays can only be imagined.

    It is indeed sad that Newspapers are giving him so much mileage and indeed a national newspaper actually administered an online questionnaire – which again “seemed” simple but had a clear objective of giving thumbs up to Anna. After all, looking good to your readers – even if they are the lumpen lot – is good business! The days of unbiased reporting are well and truly over. Fox News and its ilk have effectively changed the way journalism is viewed.

    Lastly, the online support base for Anna, shocks by their lack of thinking, foul language and downright indecency. Are these the “millions” of Indians who support Anna – as some papers – at least in their online avatar – claim?

    Anarchy is the last thing the doctor ordered for India. But the wave is too strong and the government too weak.

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  • Pradip Das

    Mr.Sanghvi has it spot on. Though, I do think he has been rather benign with his opinions on Anna and gang’s motives. The old adage “the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions” finds an excellent application when witnessing the shenanigans of Anna. Though even this is a rather benign way of looking at it.

    Well one could take a sterner view and say, that the hunger strike, the press conferences with “anti people etc” liberally strewn around, the bill burning, and of course the sinister “referendum” – which apart from self selection was probably designed to elicit a positive response. Given the creativity they have, this was a rather shoddy attempt. And what about the oversized picture of Gandhiji behind Anna in many of his photo shoots?

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  • Hema

    It is fact that in elections, most of people vote more along the caste, community and religion lines than by a national issue. As a result more often than not, the assembly or general elections end up in personality clashes and national issues take a back seat. Local and regional matters also play a great part in influencing the election of a candidate. Hence there is a very much possibility that a candidate with narrow and parochial political considerations may win the election, and the one with a national outlook may lose. On the other hand in a referendum or an opinion poll, the choice is straight and narrow. People have to say only yes or no. Hence they represent the correct public opinion on any national issue. To illustrate this point , PM Manmohan Singh may win with flying colours in a referendum on economic reforms but may lose in a general election to a nonentity because of the local issues involved.

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  • Jagdish Chander

    Much have been debated for and against strong and week Lokpal . Country is suffering from the burdon of excessive laws. Anna has become a Kathputli of legal activists. They have been extracting money from ordinary poeple. Now they want to grip the PM and Judges also. The Lawyers make the laws only to contnue their existance. I was reading a case decided by Delhi High Court aganist the former Law Minister and in one of the members of this gang. He did not pay incometax on the cost he incurred on his treatment on the ground that he got his heart repaired taking his hear as Capital and the treatment cost as Capital expenditure. He is insulting God and his parents who have given him birth and the heart to live. Can you imagine their earnings in fighting for Public Litigations. Law never erradicate crimes. These always increase crimes and the Lawyers profesion only thrivein.
    For next 10 all these laws should be scrapped and let poeple do what they want to. Even if some murders at he will gain. But with these Laws only advocates gain. Neither the murderer nor deceased gain. They even suck blood of dead person. I want to know what is the profession of Kejriwal. What is the source of his earnings?.
    Burning of material has been prohibited in Delhi as this generates polution. These jokers are burning papers in open. What respect they have for laws. They are opportunists. They started a new slogen that weak Lopal his anti Dalits. How does the Prime Minister or Supreme Court’s Judges if remain outside Lokpal will be anti Dalits. Do they take bribes from Dalits. They should not misguide poeple of this country. I have a pitty on Kiran Bedi who is degrading her status in this gang.

    She and Anna ji should start educating poeple to be honest instead of doing this dishonest act of misguiding poeple.

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    Prabhat Reply:

    Anna Hazare group is led by individuals. These individuals are mostly driven by passion and conviction ( right or wrong). When individuals fight against an established system, they will try to hammer at every possible crack on the wall that is blocking their movement. So there will be randomness in their action. It’s more to do with their frustration of not being heard.

    On the other hand, the Govt. is led by seasoned politicians and leaders. I believe the political leaders have failed to contain the Anna Hazare group with their reasoning and management skills.

    The onus lies with the Govt. to manage this movement. If they fail, then they deserve to be condemned. Not so much for their version of the LokPal bill. But for letting the chaos rule the society for so long on just a single issue.

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  • Meiyappan

    Vir Sanghvi deserves a big hand for deftly dealing with a vital problem made complex and confounding by vested interests! Anna Hazare’s fast just a month prior to election to five state assemblies,which appeared intriguing then ,now appears clearer! The resounding success of Congress and the bungling of BJP and Leftists was over-shadowed by the threats of Yoga Guru at Ramlila Maidan in June!In July there was a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai in July!On the eve of the “Monsoon session of Parliament”,Karnataka Lokayukta’s indictment of Yeddiyurappa and the high drama prior to his exit are interpreted as “fire-bath” of a party!To its supporter. it might have emerged as ‘redeemed sinner” but to others the aftermath of fire-bath have left its face and hands scorched very badly!Anna and his “civil society members”have now arisen as Modern Frankenstein to destroy not only its sponsor but all political parties!Their much hyped “Referendum” in Chandni Chowk would soon find a place in Guinne’s Book of records! out of four lakh voters sought, 72,000 only responded! That means 82% have rejected that tom foolery! But they claim 85% have favoured their unauthorised and un identifiable Jan Lokpal Bill!The unelected clamouring for wide powersand no accountabilityis mocking the “constitutional institution”,namely, Parliament by burning the Lokpal Bill crculated in it!They who revelled in street populasim have now become a victim of their own tactics!readers could easily draw thier own cnclusions!

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    Dinesh Reply:

    Another Congress Corrupt PET.

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    sanju Reply:

    r u kapil sibbal ?

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    Yogesh Reply:

    Mr Sanghvi should not use the words like GANG & COMPANY to mention a group of Civil Society and Group of Ministers who delibrated the issue of Lokpal.

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    Ganesh S Reply:

    The word “gang” used by Mr Sanghvi seems to have hurt all these apologits for Mr Hazare.Mr Hazare and his team member Mr Kerjriwal can keep calling the government dhokebaaz or chaalbaaz or whatever day in and day out.Furthermore,anyone can say anything about Mr Vir Sanghvi but he cannot use the word “gang” against these HOLY and PIOUS men.What double standards.Mr Hazare springs to life when any news comes about governmental misdeed but disappears from the scene throughout the Yeddiurappa crisis.When he is asked about Karnataka he talks in general.Mr Hazare accuses Congress of high command culture.At least the Congress High Command ensures its word is heeded.How about BJP High Command ? Yeddi made a joker out of them before installing his puppet.The point is – Mr Hazare and his team have all the right to raise anti corruption voice and fight and seek peoples’ support.And those of us who differ with them have every right to call them anything.When you call someone something be prepared to get it right back.No one is above constitution or above parliament.Congress draft on Lok Pal may be weak or strong.Let parliament decide.

    Gaurav Kaushik Reply:

    Something is hurting inside you . I am surprised that you are the sole supporter from his blogging brotherhood and no one else is coming to strengthen his case. There are 2 ways to approach this whole thing – either you present half truths like this blogger and be condemned for that or you attack the other side with names and recall their inconsistent records etc. Put yourself in these two scenarios -
    1- Do I want to see in this country scam after scam and the so called parliament not doing anything or doing only for the name sake under pressure.
    2- Will it matter to me if it was not the face of Anna. Should media help anyone after all we are supposed to be neutral?
    Perhaps, your answer to 1) is – yes – it doesn’t bother me and for 2) the answer is No.
    For a common Indian, will existence of such person matter? I do not think so whether they happen to be rich, intelligent, holding respected posts or award winning famous persons. One chooses a path in life. Righteous path or goal is not for all ’s taste but if I could, I would still beseech all people to choose a higher path. Who knows it may come to gnaw on your soul when you least expect it .

    Vikram Reply:

    Yes, with this name/identity he is backing/supporting all biased corrupt bloggers like Vohra, Vir and some of his partners are Kumar, Farhaat………oops prabhat etc

    Silky Reply:

    Most comments here are attaclks on Vir, or the merits of Anna’s version of the Lokpal bill. Anybody who seems to disagree is a Congress puppet or worse. Problem is, right at the begining, Vir clarified that this article is not about the merits of the competing versions of the Bill. He states that he is not arguing for one or the other version. He is raising a specific issue: should a referandum decide governmental policy? Should the general population be able to decide what bill will pass? That was the issue. Not which Lokpal Bill should pass, or whether Vir is good man. You can have referandum, if the question is framed in a simple manner and for clear, simple issues like the example in the article. But you cannot have a referandum for “which version of the bill should be adopted”, as this requires the voter to read and understand both bills, or maybe in the future, 3 or more versions of a bill. As a lawyer, I can guaratee you that most educated people, who are not lawyers, let alone uneducated ones, can’t read through a bill and understand what it says. Sometimes even lawyers can’t agree on a single interpretation. That is where judges come in. At times, even judges can’t agree on a one single interpretation, that’s where the Supreme Court comes in. How on earth is a common man going to decide? By the way, what language will the bills be in?

    Gaurav Kaushik Reply:

    The battle is not about the blogger but his main blog content that referendums are useless were proven based on half truths and suppression of truths. You are here implying that it was not the case. May be I do not understand. So, you are making another effort to establish that referendums are definitely waste of time as when judge and lawyer can not understand a bill how ordinary public can. Because this referendum is about a special bill which can only be interpreted by supreme court judges, so in this most complicated situation, no body will know how to frame a referendum question.
    A situation like this may be a challenge but can not be beyond solution for the countries where referendums or interaction with the public has become norm. Govt should seek consultancy from abroad for framing a question if locals in India find this impossible. In 2011, in UK election reform referendum took place. People were already aware about one election system but not about the new system that was proposed. It was not easy for anyone to understand as being very complicated – but the system was followed in number of countries including Australia. First of all, some experts studied this new system in other countries. The radio, TV and newspapers made it simple for public to understand how to base their judgement on. There were of course canvassing too from both camps. This was the question put to public in May, 2011 –
    “Do you want the United Kingdom to adopt the ‘alternative vote’ system instead of the current ‘first past the post’ system for electing Members of Parliament to the House of Commons?”
    In 2002, Musharraf ran referendum. This was the question which again was not easy to understand but was still asked –
    “For the survival of the local government system, establishment of democracy, continuity of reforms, end to sectarianism and extremism, and to fulfil the vision of Quaid-e-Azam [Great leader - ie Pakistan's late founder, Mohammed Ali Jinnah], would you like to elect President General Pervez Musharraf as president of Pakistan for five years?”
    Media people become more important in any referendums, as both camps wants to seek to sway referendum in their favour with the media support. In my opinion it offers an ideal opportunity for media, so in stead of resisting most of media must be falling for it.

    HPN Reply:

    Fully agree. And as for the blogger, the attacks are natural. He is superb in presenting half truths and conceal facts to serve the purpose of his presentation. This was proved by Radia tapes. The good thing about his writing a blog is that many very serious and well meaning people participate in it (they have been his constituency in HT’s Counterpoint) and this is very useful for many others who get to see a full spectrum of arguments and make or change their opinion.

    Gaurav Kaushik Reply:

    Yes, counterpoint was good. He (blogger) always appears convincing, so one has to check his facts.

  • Sanoj Kumar

    Vir Shinghavi wrote”The traditional view of referendums is that they have no place in representative democracy.” So if refrendum will happen in democracy then where do you expect it to happen? In autocracy? Vir shinghavi is an oxon more. He can’t go beyond Britain or whatever he has crammed in Oxford. he doesn’t have his own logic. A fool who somwhow came to know how to write/speak english in slavish India and will keep wrting whatevr he thinks.

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  • Abhi

    I think the basic issue is one of corruption. All else is beating around the bush. In the opinion of most people, a majority of people in this government, including the PM, are corrupt. The “representative democracy” has failed to stem the tide of corruption. So, we have to do something outside of “representative democracy” to stop corruption. Anna Hazare is trying to do that. The very fact that this government is trying tooth and nail, not to fight corruption, which every government should be doing, but it is fighting the forces that are fighting corruption, says something about this government. What it says is that those who fight Anna Hazare are corrupt. Covering yourself in legal jargon only makes matters worse.

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  • Amit Garg

    Vir,

    You have lost my respect many in last few years. It hurt me the most when it was confirmed beyond doubt by the sting operation that my favorite column written by you was rigged.. I think you should not have labeled Anna Hazare and his team as “gang”.. This has hurt all Indians and NRIs alike.. The question is very basic here, how do we punish corrupt politicians.. They were elected no doubt, but just by being elected are they absolved of any corrupt practices.. Get me any politicians worth his salt being prosecuted on corruption charges.. The picture of Lalu Prasad foisting his wife as chief minister when he was shifted to make shift jail for some time is still fresh.. I read in one newspaper that the IAS officers were asked to present files to him before being signed by his better half.. The cash was paid to MPs vote in a particular way.. It is common sense that this was done by some politicians to benefit the government.. Is there any politician in jail due to this? NONE… Our parliamentary committee even pronounced them not guilty.. Can we expect politicians to convict their own brethren from same party.. So I think you missed the whole point of Lokpal and used this column to tarnish image of Hazare and team.. Sometimes we should look at the forest rather than woods…

    Amit

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    Roop Sharma Reply:

    I will certainly not agree to the points of Vir Singhvi.
    Our countrymen want that corruption must be rooted out and the corrupt must be punished. But Vir Singhvi has not touched this issue.
    People involved in corrupt parctices, they and their kins and or friends enjoy empolyment, study benefits. They can buy any real estate what ever they choose to.
    We have to be more concerend about the families, their children who have the talents to come up.
    Now look at the condtions of patients who needs urgent treatment live in toilets of AIIMS and no one to bother them except the media.
    Therefore Vir Singhvi please high lights such issues and support Anna Hazare team

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    Rakesh Reply:

    Well i had doubts on Mr Singhvi being the Congress hatchet man in the media. This article proved that he is and is well looked after by the current dispension in power. Time to move over Mr. Singhvi as if democracy strikes the Journalism mainstream, You will lose your deposit lock stock and barell…Please find an alternative profession before the current indian masses shows you your ” Right ful” place….out in obscurity…God bless you !

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  • ramesh

    we must know the author first before discussing his views.he is one of the guys along with varkha dutt ,working as in between for NIRA RADIA.
    NOTHING BETTER CAN COME FROM HIM.
    WHEN HE BRITISH SYSTEM AND THEIR ARGUMENTS ,HE DOESNOT TALK OF THEIR CHARACTER.
    BRITISH CHARACTER IS NOT A CHARACTER OF A SLAVE.
    FOR SINGHVI ANNA IS A GANG LEADER AND KAPIL A GREAT COMPANY.
    UNFORTUNATELY ,THIS MAN HAS NEVER SHOWN EVEN BY HIS WRITING THAT HE IS VIR.

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    Das Reply:

    How can anyone expect a person on payroll of political party to present a neutral view? One would foolish to do so. Indian media like HT and their so-called journalists are doing exactly that. Mr Sanghvi and his Congress brethrens have it seems are inventing entirely new meaning of democracy, which in all but name is fixed term dictatorship.
    His statement “If these electors can’t even send us the right MPs and MLAs then how will they choose between draft bills?” really takes the biscuit. It is clear he believes that Indian electoral are daft are should not be trusted with voting system. If that is the case Vir Sanghvi then extending your logic then why should we just stop at referenda, since the electorate according to you are fools then why have elections.
    But we all those, except paid agents and benefactor of Congress rotten misrule, know that it’s the electorate should have total, constant and complete control over the elected. You like your ilk Manish Towari, Singhvis and other forget that that hold political power are elected by, and accountable to, the people. The democracy does not mean that the elected have free licence to act as they wish, against the wishes of the electorate, and use flimsy excuses like the ones Sanghvi has used.

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  • Varun

    Mr Sanghvi

    you have lost the respect of presenting the neutral or whatever the view, so please stop uttering this ****. Better will you work on your lobbying business.

    Varun

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  • vikas

    How can we take this person comment seriously he is sold out to congress.

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  • Anoop

    Mr Singhvi’s assertion “The traditional view of referendums is that they have no place in representative democracy. ” is simply wrong. Many “traditional democratic ” countries with representative parliaments such as Australia require a referendum to change any provision of constitution or its interpretation. A senior journalist like Mr Singhvi should be more responsible and do their research before asserting wrong stands and defaming a very popular and very democratic movement.

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  • SK

    I think Vir should stop writing. No one is interested in reading his biased views.

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  • http://hindustantimes.com mc

    sorry, no one can trust you after some tapes about you. you shud defintely move over to another profession

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  • Raj

    Seems no honesty and integrity is left in anybody in India. Mr Vir Singhavi i wonder why even God is allowing India to survive, how can you come to such low level, are you even 1% of Anna Hazareji, people like you take money from ruling party which is dynastic rule in this country, queen and prince and her children, they use some pseudo intellectuals/seculars like you to keep fooling Indian public. Is Annaji doing it for himself, he doesn’t have his kids crying, his only fault is he is trying to see if some ethics,values and honesty comes back in India. I think Annaji is wasting his time on India. it would have been better that he should have married long ago and should have been part of this loot. Our Army people are also stupid to join army, if they have brain these days, they should avoid going to any war, well nobody is going to care for there families after them. Mr. Sanghvi, i am highly qualified and can build my arguments better than you, in any case i don’t consider you can build good arguments, my competition is with Kapil Sibal and Chidambaram, the Harvard educated thieves which shouldn’t find place in hell also. Mr. Sanghvi introduce me also to Congress, believe me i will be more corrupt and technically sophisticated than you, i will insult people if anyone wants India to be made fit for living, that is the only mistake of Annaji. Mr. Singhavi i can write good poetry for queen and prince of India also. Just let me be part of loot, for God sake please. Once i gather money i can also keep some pseudo intellectuals to keep defending my acts in media in every debate. I feel sorry for Annaji, why he is even trying to help Indians, let all of us go to hell. Time will soon come when fire reaches home of pseudo intellectuals/seculars and queen/prince, i am just waiting to see that day in life. I am sure it will come when Indian system will get deteriorated to an extent that country will be unfit for even day to day living. It is already unfit but for sins to reach peak, it has to be even worse, so lets wait for that day.

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  • Govind Pershad

    In the maze of arguements and their counters,we are loosing the action reqd. to be taken.What we require today is an agency which takes action on a complaint whatever the level of the officer,and ensure protection to the complainant in the shortest possible time.WHY WE WANT IT;TODAY THERE IS NO SUCH MACHINERY TO ENSURE THIS,DESPITE A PLETHORA OF AGENCIES.The most important reason for inaction is that all these officers are protected today;with permission reqd. for the prosecution which never comes or comes after all the evidence has been destroyed or tempered.WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS THE FACT THAT THE CORRUPT WE FACE IN OUR DAY TO DAY LIFE,ARE AT SMALL LEVELS,IN MUNICIPAL CORPORATION,ELECTRICITY BOARD OFFICE,SUB-REGISTRAR AND POLICE,WHO ARE SO MUCH PROTECTED BY THEIR OWN SUPIRIORS THAT THEY NENVER GET PROSECUTED;RATHER THE WORST SUFERER IS THE COMPLAINANT
    But the most important fact is that the persons we are trying to comment on;the journalist,does not suffer from any of these Departments,or more.HE IS FAR SUPIRIOR TO GOD EVEN,IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE LIVE IN AND THE CONSTITTION WE FOLLOW.HIA FACE AND HIS CARD ARE A LICENSE UNTO ITSELF;NOBODY DARE DENY HIM ANY SERVICE,AND THEREFORE HW NEVER UNDERSTANDS THE PROBLEMS OF THE MASSES,LIKE OUR NETAS AND POLITICIANS.SO HOW CAN HE DECIDE ABOUT THE CONTENTS OF THE LOK PAL BILL?HE WILL NEVER NEED IT?

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  • Chennaivaasi

    Vir Sanghvi stoops so low as to call the revered Anna Hazare and his team as ‘Hazare gang’. What an uncivilised online editor the HT has? Every one knows that Vir Sanghvi is the paid agent of the UPA government and the corporates like the Tatas and Ambanis. Although I could immediately guess what he would have written in the article by my first look at the heading, I read it fully to know how stupid he would make himself. It was disgusting and nauseating.

    His writing is not going to become an opinion-maker. For by now we all are aware of his lowly style of writing for a kickback from the government.

    HT would do a great service to its readers if its top management kicks this traitor out of its editorial board.

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  • Mera naam joker

    You don’t have any moral right to comment og the bill mr sanghvi

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    G.Seth Reply:

    Vir Sanghvi has no credibility left.

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    AA Reply:

    Vir Sanghvi once more proving here that he is doing what he is best at: “Fixing”… from presenting rehearsed interviews (no wonder Sonia Gandhi has given only one interview till date and that too this crook who is master in cooking interviews as per the need of interviewer not for getting truth to the public) to such articles when he tries of dispute anything that may cause discomfort to his masters in the Congress.

    However, he unknowingly or knowingly accepted that what opinion polls mean to such jurnos…they get them fixed too to please their political and business masters

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    Anjana Reply:

    I wonder from whom he has taken dictation this time.He is morally ineligible to write on this subject. Don’t fool us’

    Ganesh S Reply:

    Really ? Then why do u waste time reading his columns and writing on them ? Just ignore him.And if you cannot ignore try to understand what he is saying.

    Vikram Reply:

    Indian by heart can not ignore these traitors and their acts. You are acting lika a new youth member of congress…………….congratulation to you.

    Shiva Reply:

    Anjana and Vikram..get a grip people. You both are acting like you have an agenda against Mr. Sanghvi. Even if you are paid bloggers of BJP, at least follow the basic decencies of Indian culture which we all are part of. India is a secular democracy and everybody has a right to opinion and you cannot held a person guilty till it is proved. This is what your party president Mr. Gadkari said of Yeddy and Reddy brothers. If you dont like his blogs, stop reading them. Why do you spoil the space and dirty it with your venom.

    g.ashokraj Reply:

    don’t try to confuse!people know about everything,therefore your views on many issues totally false ! this is not the end ,just it has started now!every corrupt in all forms from politicians to even few media will face problem in future. this is people power!! country in transition phase.

  • Dr.O.P.Verma

    Now now now!This forum seems to have become an army and Vir as cannonfodder.I just want an answer to a simple question.Will any superlokpal be able to weed out corruption if it comes into force?If you admit that 95% people have corrupt mindset ,don’t forget it includes people like you and me,thereby implying that we ourselves are responsible for this mess.Therefore we,the people need to introspect and reform ourselves rather than throwing stones on others when we have our own houses built of glass .

    [Reply]

    Ganesh S Reply:

    Please be careful Dr Verma.This army will begin asking you how much you are being paid by Congress the moment you ask them even one objective question.You and I are supposed to fall in line and not question Mr Anna Hazare on anything .You and I are supposed to just dumbly applaud anything they say or claim or decide and ANNOUNCE about corruption.Because they have abrogated to themselves the right of being called CIVIL SOCIETY.So everyone else who disagreed with them is UNCIVIL.Each time you differ with them the only arguments that flow out are that Mr Vir has no right,that Congress is the root and mother of all corruption in the country and that the ONLY way to get rid of corruption is to join Mr Anna Hazare.While the first two points may be even right,as far as the credentials of Anna and his team are concerned,no one is questioning those.The difference comes when he and his team claim on TV that ENTIRE system is rotten,government is ENTIRELY unreliable,parliament is nothing but a group of people who have won their elections only through manipulation and even judiciary – from the highest level downwards is in question as far as integrity is concerned.So whom do we unfortunate people of India have to turn to ? Mr Anna Hazare and his team of five or six.Anyone else who does not agree – be damned or condemned.Now if all this is true,why am i disagreeing with Maoists ? Isnt this what they say too ? Except that Maoists are comfortable with violence,where is the difference between Anna and his team and Maoists.And if indeed no one in the political class is worthy of rescuing India then why target ONLY Congress ? Target all parties.Is this a right reflection of reality ? I am also an Indian and I also want to end corruption.Time has come to rid the country of corruption.Time has also come to put those who run the system – all political parties on notice.But hasnt time also come to ask a few questions to those who claim to be the leaders in leading a movement on this – or may be just ONE question – HOW PRECISELY DO YOU WANT TO GO ABOUT THIS ? By bad mouthing the system 24×7 wholesale and fullscale all the time ? or by cleansing the system ? or by dumping the present system and changing to a new system ?Absolutely yes.Now solution does not lie in burning pieces of paper or helping TV channels with their TRP ratings or holding silly referendums in only one politician’s constituency whom they cannot stand.Solution lies in the civil society going to meet parliamentarians,judges and even those in the systems who have integrity ( and there are quite a few still) and making presentations before parliamentary committees.Why is civil society fighting shy of this approach ? Are there some hidden ambitions or unwillingness to share the “platform” ?Before I am lynched by the anti Vir army let me raise my fist and say – may god bless anna and his team,may god bless all those in India other than anna and his team who want to end corruption but I am surely praying to God to give Anna and his team the wisdom to stop posing as the sole crusaders and instead reach out to everyone in the system and government and help India win this WAR AGAINST CORRUPTION.

    [Reply]

    HPN Reply:

    The corrupt minds get tamed by fear of going to jail. This was demonstrated during emergency when corruption almost vanished. The idea in having a strong Lokpal is to put that fear lawfully than by imposing emergency in which 5 % (your figure) of honest also suffer.

    [Reply]

    HPN Reply:

    Sorry, the above got pasted at wrong place. This was meant for
    Meiyappan says:
    August 5, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    [Reply]

  • JITENDRA KUMAR

    Dear Sir
    CHEAP STATEMENT, You should understand the difference between “GANG & COMPANY”
    GANG — Lead by Mahatama Gandhi
    GANG — Lead by Lok Nayak Jai Prakash Narayan
    GANG — Lead by Binoba Bhave
    GANG — Lead by Bal Gangadhar Tilak
    GANG — Lead by Rani Laxmibai
    GANG — Lead by Subhas Chandra Bose, Chandrasekhar Azad, Bhgat Sing
    GANG — Nelson Mandela etc.
    GANG — Lead by Ramdev
    Now GANG — Lead by ANNA AZARE..

    COMPANY — Lead by A- Raja, Kalmadi, Kanimozhi
    COMPANY — Lead by Manmohan Singh, Kapil Sibbal, P-Chidrambram etc..
    COPMANY — Lead by Sharad Pawar
    COMPANY — Lead by Lalu Prasad Yadav
    COMPANY — Lead by Mayavati
    COMPANY — Lead by Yadduyappa
    COMPNAY — Lead by Pakistani leader in Kashmir
    COMPNAY — Dawood Ibrahim “D”

    GOOD Going “VIR” & HT

    [Reply]

  • Om

    Vir sangvi

    You have no moral right to right about corruption after your involvement in bark agate etc.. Just keep quiet and do not make a fool of yourself.

    [Reply]

  • Om

    To refresh people’s memory of your dealings

    http://www.newspostindia.com/2010-11-19-exclusive-vir-sanghvi-nira-radia-corruption-tapes

    [Reply]

    Anjana Reply:

    thanks

    [Reply]

  • A Fernandes (North-East)

    Anna Hazare and some members of his motley group may arguably have deserved respect when they initially started their campaign to clean up the system. However, it is now plainly apparent that they are suffering from delusions of grandeur and are highly ambitious and power crazy as well, as it is clear that they are trying to wreck the very fabric of our democracy and are not willing to concede that the Govt and Parliament have the over-riding right to not accept their point of view. They feel that their view and policy is the best and only option and must be adopted failing which they feel that they have the right to threaten and even pull down the Govt and create nation-wide anarchy & instability by fanning mass hysteria among a populace that has not fully studied all pros and cons of both policies. Probably, they might have been encouraged by civilian efforts and civilian power which led to overthrow of governments in Egypt & Tunisia and they might have made similar scary efforts maybe hoping that they might get top positions if the Govt eventually fell. If they do not respect parliamentary democracy and are not content that now Parliament has to make the final call and decision, then they do not deserve much respect. Vir Sanghvi has made a balanced debate on the issue and I think we Indians must ponder carefully and form considered decisions on the subject without falling to the designs and crackpotted mentality of this gang.

    [Reply]

    Gaurav Kaushik Reply:

    Though you are no better than blogger himself for choosing the word ‘Gang’ and ‘motley group’ for Anna’s team but I ‘ll still make an attempt to respond to you. Balance or neutrality of this blog has been examined critically by many posts. You among many who do not go through that analysis emerging from so many posts and simply visit his writing can be mesmerised by him as the half truths presented may appear like the whole truths and the judgements sensible, but it will transform those who take the pain to see the dissection of his blog in the post after post – at least this time as I too have made an attempt. After going through that, if you still want to maintain what you have said in your comment above then I ‘ll say that you are not bringing any new facts or analysis on Lokpal to the table but merely analysing in your own way. All analysis can be right – your point of view or that of blogger can be right as well but they are just opinions not based on facts.How events will take shape, everybody is watching.

    [Reply]

  • Anjana

    Better write on food, celebrity, page 3 stuff, Don’t attempserious issues.

    [Reply]

    RAMESH AGARWAL Reply:

    NOTHING BETTER THAN THIS IS EXPECTED FROM WRITER WHO IS A PUPPET OF UPA.IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL TO USE SUCH HARSH WORDS FOR ANNAJI AND HIS TEAM DUE TO WHOSE PRESSURE PRESENT FORM OF LOKPALL BILL WAS ABLE TO PRESENT TO PARLIAMENT THOUGH ONLY AS INEFFECTIVE ONETO DEAL WITH SCAM AND CORRUPTION.THE PROVISION OF JAIL TERM FOR CORRUPT ONE IS THREE MONTHS BUT IF REPORTED BY SOME ONE AND PROOF FALSE HE WILL BE IMPRISIONED FOR TWO YEARS.NO SECURETY FOR COMPLAINTS, NO TIME BOUND, NO PROVISION FOR LOKAYUKTA IN STATES AND FAILED TO SEND STRONG AND STRICT WARNING WITH CONSEQUENCES TO THOSE INVOLVED IN CORRUPT PRACTICES.WHY EXCLUDE PM AND OTHER BUREAUCRATS WHEN MORE CORRUPTION IS IN LOWER LEVEL.IN SHORT LIKE OTHER LAWS ANOTHER TOOTHLESS IS BEING PROVIDED TO BEFOOL PUBLIC.ACTUALLY CONGRESS IS NOT INTERESTEDIN FIGHTING AND MINIMISING IT AS MANY OF THEIR PEOPLE AND THAT OF ALLIANCES WILL BE EFFECTED.IF CONGRESS IS SERIOUS THEN BY NOW MAYA,MULAYAM AND LALOO WOULD HAVE BEENJAILED AND THSE WHO VOTED AFTER GETTING MONEY DURING TRUST VOTE.IN STEAD OF LISTENING AND HONOURING ADVICES OF ANNA AND RAMDEVJI THEY HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED DUE TO LUST OF POWER AND KABIL WAS THE WORST MISBEHAVED MINISTER.I HOPE PARLIAMENT WILL MAKE PROPER AMENDMENT BEFORE FINALISING IT.

    [Reply]

  • Satish

    Wow vir you are something…. Come to real world man, you should never ever write about corruption etc.. After what we know what you are barkha morally stand for , people like you are part of corrupt nexus with politicians. You guys feed on this corrupt system and would use all of your journalistic talent to twist the facts.. But let me tell you something which you may have heard but forgotten

    SatyaM aVe jaYate I.e truth prevails

    [Reply]

  • http://nil B.Annathurai

    Essential requirements to be included in the Lokpal Bill, 2011
    (1). Why the Prime Minister of India constrained to run a political party by receiving bribe/commission should not be included in the Lokpal Bill, 2011?
    (2). Why not the Election Commission of India defray to all sorts of expenses, monitor and regulate all sorts of expenses any recognized political party necessitated for running the political party and face election within a stipulated election propaganda avenues?
    (3). Every Chief Justice of India and High Courts in India is declaring that corruption in judiciary and black sheep in judiciary must be eliminated but they are screening the offenders from actions of law and not pointing out the culprits, thus why can’t they be brought under the actions of law for being not disclosing the bribers/ corruption hands for legal actions under the offences of IPC? What is the guaranty the justices of India won’t involve in getting bribe and they need not be included in the actions of the bill?
    (4). Where is the effective clause of the bill to include the members and officials of the LokPal Commission for the actions of Lokpal Commission and the anticorruption statutory bodies? And what is the guaranty that the official and members of Lokpal Commission will not enter into getting bribing, favourism and bias activities and why not they be included in the claws of the Lokpal Commission? Personnel in Lokpal Commission and in the other statutory bodies are Indians only and they are of all existing characters and have to meet their personal needs.
    (5). How magistrate level and other lower level judicial officers can deal a case against, suppose against higher level judicial officers like High Court and Supreme Court judges? And how is it possible to magistrate level judicial officer to conduct trial on higher level judicial officers without a separate (career promotion) system of judicial accountability, Judiciary and reporting from the existing? A sub-ordinate judge can not boldly try a charged superior judge without a separate system of judiciary upto the Apex Court status. Judicial Officers in this connection should not report to the existing Judiciary, there is a need for parallel set-up.
    (6). How is it possible to curb the bribing and corruption without articulating, eliminating and defraying to the very high demand on congregating illegal money for defraying to various needs of running a political party, face election, etc?
    (7). How is it possible to Lokpal Commission to take over all the enforcement and executive activities of government’s anticorruption bodies while the Commission can not have one more parallel/redundant manpower with adequate qualification, caliber, merit and official facilities and provisions to effectively look after/scope up the day to day activities of the proposed Lokpal Commission?
    (8). How is it possible to eliminate corruption without introducing reformation and new method of electing people representatives (MLAs, MPs, etc.,) without state level weightage system and number of votes required for a representative (MLA and MP) amongst the total franchised votes in a state’s and union election, i.e., with respect to number of votes required to one candidate/representative? How can defeated candidates generate funds to face next election and until that time how can they survive in the existing election setup? There is a need to fetch number of MLAs and MPs with respect to total votes secured by a party at state level. Who will work/voice for the people voted to defeated candidate/ political party? While speculating over this strategy it can be seen almost all the problems connected with the existing political parties can be resolved.
    (9). The Lokpal system must deal and take up the matters on specific complaints only on the veracity of complaints/actions of the existing corruption prevention mechanism. It must concentrate on malfeasances of CBI, Vigilance Commission, top level secretaries, politicians and Ministers, Judges, private sector and on the matters specifically complained of. These category people are evading laws.
    (10). There is a need for separate investigation, prosecution and judicial setup required to enforce effective anticorruption. Lokpal Commission can act as a body to direct case to be registered within Lokpal set-up on the matters it decided fit, proper and necessary, for investigation by the Lokpal Investigation team, conduct prosecution in the Courts identified for Lokpal Complaints/ cases like CBI and Military Courts. It is nothing but Vigilance and Monitoring Committee for fair actions of all three wings of criminal justice system incorporated within the Lokpal system/team. Every activity must adhere to the principle of Criminal Justice System and follow the Cr.P.C. But it can not dictate and influence anything. It can review for fair actions of any personnel including judges of Lokpal Wing and take suitable corrective actions to ground justice and legal and disciplinary actions on the erred/guilty in accordance with the rules, procedures and law in force.
    (11). Where is the mechanism to assure that the Lokpal Commission and any member of it will not favour any political party and the constitution/presence of members to deal that matters on that occasions?
    (12). What is the cause the various existing anticorruption bodies became useless in controlling and eliminating corruption, thus what have effective features additionally been envisaged in the Lokpal Bill?
    (13). Every officer entrusted with taking legal action against corruption and misuse of power on higher level and key executives especially belong to law and order, ruling party leaders/ministers, judges, etc., has to rely on the same corrupting officers for day to day personal activities including the protection of their family members. The very same police officer who feared and desired to avoid vindictive actions by the ruling party icons and thus having failed to take actions against corruption and various other malfeasances of ruling party icons takes stringent legal actions on them when they are ex-ruling party. This is the pathetic practical situation of higher level police officers too despite they are empowered by the existing laws too to take legal actions on the corrupt ruling party icons. All the higher police officers can not assemble together to jointly initiate actions on corrupting ruling political party icons because such actions will further worsen the entire democratic setup. This is applicable to fair and downright judges also who dare to punish the ruling party chief and icons. In vogue all the won MPs, MLs, etc., have distributed cash for votes, except a very few. It can be proved by the very same thousands of voters those obtained money for vote. Actions to repeal such elected status of won MLs, MPs, etc., by Election Commissions and suo motto actions by courts to this effect can be by law possible as there are provisions in law and powers to Election Commissions and Courts. But it is highly impractical on various grounds. Hence it is very clear from our 55 years of experience after becoming democratic country on our own Indian Constitution that we are having very good penal laws and code but we don’t have proper bodies and officers to execute everything in accordance with the existing laws. Hence there is a need for having a complete system of statutory bodies to protect, prosecute, and render justice to the officers and even ruling party icons implicated in any vendetta for having done downright actions on discharging their statutory duties. Hence the Lokpal Bill, 2011, must incorporate such separate statutory provisions and bodies to protect the personnel of Lokpal Commission and Honest officers of other departments/ bodies including judiciary, ruling party politicians, etc., and their family members. The Lokpal Commission itself should take over such responsibility by incorporating adequate forces, wings, etc., under it control.
    (14). As said by every Chief justices of High Courts and Supreme Court there are biased, corrupted, caste , race, religious and linguistic biasing; Judicial officers now. They are harassing the right seekers by knowingly giving wrong and bias judgments. In giving bails they are not equally treating all. They behave like autocrat. Justice denied people turn into militant and being nightmare to peaceful society. Due to bad preceding and difficulty in getting timely and right justice casteism in India still exists. Some ruling political parties are hindered to do welfare to the people. One political party is destroying the public property realized during the tenure of other political party. It may be correct that court need not intervene in the policy decision of governments, but if the policy of one government itself is like this, is it allowed by law? They must be held for damaging the public property and causing wrongful loss to public property. There is no trace of evidence the CBI had taken up such matters if the ruling party is headed by politicians belong to upper castes. Courts must take suo motto actions on such events. Judicial officers addicted to religion, race, caste, irrational, fundamentalism, etc., are hindering the people welfare projects without bothering a least on Scientific facts. They give weigtage to the belief of certain people but not giving fair weightage to a majority of people who believe the courts must uphold rationale and scientific facts. Politicians are implicated in motivated litigations. Law and Order personnel are overlooking the wrongs done by the ruling party members and they are acting as orderly to implicate members of non ruling parties. Police officers are for their continuation in important portfolios/ posts they are acting as inhuman and against the duties and responsibilities entrusted upon them. Actions are not taken on accused after seizing properties they congregated illegally if they belong to upper castes and such considerations are not applied to those belong to lower caste and rival/hated political parties. Equality before law is let loosed in air. Today on the pretext of nation, constitution, law, etc., the dominants are forcefully exploiting the yields, share and rights of working class and oppressing the right seekers and feelings of bottom stratum people with the functions and aid of public bodies. Liberty and equality before law are still at paper level. It did not reach and was not awarded to all on par. Damning politicians, a particular political party, top executives, judicial officers, etc., as reasons for corruption is not correct as corruption is due to the chance and parochial creeds and faiths as far as individual is concerned and for political survival in the remaining. Casteism and corruption are the survival strategies and it is necessitated on existing uncertainty of dignity living of self and their dependents, heirs, race, etc. Hence the governments have to make suitable policies and schemes. No political party in India has come forward to advice and motivate the public to work hard, but they are cheating them with many frees and concessions to win the election. Without efforts of people there is no GDP and its rise to meet the needs of people. Cheating the public to win in election is a form of corruption which decreases the public growth and working tendency. Central Government promoting Hindi and advocating for a common national language must emphasize and speculate on the need of single identity for all Indians after legally banning actions and requirements to indicate caste, religion, race, etc., anywhere and for any purpose. Individuals those want such indication for them may have wherever they require. It should not be required by public bodies.
    (15). Hence there is a vital need to have District, State and National level bodies under the Lokpal Commission to do various activities including actions to set free (release from jail after conviction, grant bail, etc) the politically, caste, religious, race, linguistic, service and activity based victimized citizens; prosecute on necessary grounds the executives and politicians in power; maintain uniformity in taking legal actions on corruption and those causing damages to public property in disguise of running the government; and set aside all the judgments made on prejudice, bias, against law, reasons and objectives of law and against well settled fair earlier judgments. The Lokpal Bodies including the Commission must be constituted with members named for their yeoman service, wisdom, conscious and conscience on law, social justice and human rights.
    Hence the undergoing Lokpal Bill,2011, being drafted must answer on the aspects above indicated without indulge in any hurry burry. The root causes for prolonged existence of various imperfections and societal weaknesses must be fairly taken into debate and practical solutions to destroy them must be devised and enforced. Corruption is one form of causing damages to public properties and public growth. Hence all forms of actions of politicians and executives run the government and judicial officers causing damages to public must be viewed as corruption and brought under the Lokpal Bill, 2011. As CBI, Vigilance and Anticorruption Bodies and Courts are empowered to prosecute on offenders under any law in force, the Lokpal Commission can do the same on those evading law, exempted from law , threat and practically so far difficult and belong to the above said public offices/bodies. Hence the Lokpal Bill, 2011, must incorporate all kinds of practical aspects to effectively achieve the noble concepts of it without excluding anyone and be welcomed and useful as RTI Act, 22/2005, which indeed empowered the citizens of India designing their democratic country and drive their public authorities to effectively discharge their duties.
    *****
    By
    B.Annathurai
    Place: Radhapuram, Thirunelveli District, Thamizhnadu, India.

    [Reply]

  • http://nil B.Annathurai

    Essential provisions to be incorporated in the Lokpal Bill, 2011 to effectively prevent and eliminate corruption
    Voices to prevent and eliminate corruption in public bodies and offices are to promote and preserve public property and growth. Damage in any form to public property and growth is also a corruption which must be brought under the ambit of Lokpal Bill, 2011. The exact root causes for the prolonged existence of corruption must be openly taken for debate and the solutions must be found out and implemented before penalizing any one for corruption.
     Various sorts of expenses a political party has to face must be spared by the government through Election Commission of India. The election propaganda methods and do’s and don’ts of Political parties have to be limited and streamlined. This will answer to the necessity why a political party has to congregate money in illegal ways at present.
     Existing election system must be changed and a weightage system of fetching one MLA/MP amongst the total votes polled state through must be introduced. i.e., incase the total number of votes polled for electing 100 MLA/MP through out the state is say one crore then (1,00,00,000/100=1,00,000) for each one lakh votes secured by a political party or independent candidate one MLA/MP seat can be obtained. The fraction calculations can be devised in detail. Like now the minister portfolios are allotted, the MLAs/MPs can be identified for each electoral constitution by the individual political partys’ bye law/ rules/procedure/decision. This system will solve most of the problems related with collecting money in illegal ways and also running peacefully a political party.
     There is a need for District, State and Union level Committees under the Lokpal Commission to verify the judgments of courts in line with earlier judgments, well settled law, objectives and reasons of each and every Acts, maintaining equality before law, ensuring constitutional rights, to prevent rulers damaging the public properties realized during the period preceding political party lost power, recommend to government to release any person from jail on bail/ exoneration who was politically victimized and on prejudice convicted/ denied bail by the judge, etc., and recommend to the Lokpal Commission for action. These committees will look after the regular affairs of the Lokpal Commission within its jurisdiction.
     There must be separate Law and Order force, investigating force, prosecution force and judiciary in the Lokpal setup. The career promotion, departmental disciplinary actions, departmental reporting, etc., of judicial officers /judges in the Lokpal Court should not be under the control of existing judiciary to ensure daring and free to trial judge of Lokpal Courts. The same case is for other groups/personnel of Lokpal Commission also. The said L&O force must give protection to all personnel of Lokpal setup and deal the cases on the personnel working in Lokpal in the regular judiciary.
     The Lokpal system must deal and take up the matters on specific complaints received only, depending on the veracity of complaints/actions of the existing corruption prevention mechanism. It must concentrate on malfeasances of CBI, Vigilance Commission, top level secretaries, politicians and Ministers, Judges, private sector and on the matters specifically complained of on the actions of existing anti corruption bodies/ personnel. These category people are evading laws.
     The members/chairman of Lokpal Commission also must be brought under Lokpal Bill.
     Except the President of India everybody must be brought under the actions of Lokpal Commission.
    *****

    [Reply]

  • http://g.com COL VINOD

    I find the article is based on viable and strong reasons. I agree that “the basis of representative democracy is that legislators do what they regard as right rather than what is considered popular” For example if a referendum was carried out after Mumbai attack with a question ” Should India attack all the terrorist training camps in Pakistan?” I am sure the popular view would have emerged as “YES” And to act on such emotional uproar would have not been in the long term national interest. Similarly to day people are so emotionally strung on the subject of IMMENSE CORRUPTION that they think that Lokpal will solve all the problems. This may be only a wishful thinking as in reality the problem is not so simple

    [Reply]

  • Gaurav Kaushik

    It seems that you are keeping a distance from following the Lokpal bill ’s intricacies of its provisions and also some of the reactions and analysis of this blog done in the posts by number of people – myself included. I certainly would not like to say referendum is a solution in all situations but to deny this altogether is also proving detrimental to India and its democracy. Your responses would be very different if you allow yourself to understand all this. There are some issues where PM and cabinet should decides for the country like security, foreign relations is one such area. But even here, if they are agreeing some treaty with a group or country where the opinion could be heavy againsta the decision maker, they could go for referendum. See my post elsewhere in relation to refrendums in UK where after agreement with the IRA and Irish Republic, refrendum took place to ask public if they want UK to honour this agreement. Perhaps, after Tashkent accord, Shashtry had thought about the refrendum in the country. I am sure he would not have felt pressured and survived the heart attack. As for the domestic issues – there could be several situations where referendum could prove beneficial. In fact, anytime in domestic situation if the ruling party feels the public may have a strong view on something they should go for referendums. In the age of internet, they will not be very expensive to run. Also, the loss of life, chaos and lingering indecisive position could be avoided. The electorate will feel empowered and think they are ruling them selves and it is their country after all. One such situation in current scenario is that area which wants to become Telengana. If majority there wants to be in separate state, why should GOI not allow that . Same is also true with Lokpal and Lokayukt decisions. The meeting of all states should be called and asked them to do carry out one referendum in each state together for the setup of both these bodies. VAT implementation across states had became nightmare. If you ask public directly, the lobbyists from corporate houses would not be able to do any thing to stop any legislation. So, where ever pressure is building from various quarters, use referendums. Lokpal may not be able to root out 100% corruption. Does that mean should never make a beginning. Dilemma facing the govt and public is the strength of the bill. The tussle will surely unfold in ugly manner as the route of knowing and following people’s wishes is not there via these referendums. Sometimes one wonder about the largest democracy’s sham character where there is a deliberate denial of people’s wishes.

    [Reply]

  • Rajesh

    I agree with the article. The Anna Hazare group has no faith in the Indian people or democracy. Why then should the Indian people trust them? What gets to me is the righteous, socialistic diatribe of these people (though its much less than Karat). And insofar as the Bill is conerned – Has anyone read the so-called Civil Society Bill – Its impossible to implement and would create another huge beauraucracy to top up our already bloated civil services. No thanks. I would much rather trust an indipendent investigating agency under the constant supervision of the Judiciary.

    [Reply]

    Vikram Reply:

    “I would much rather trust an independent investigating agency”

    means until these courrupt people will sold the country. Definitely after this we need not bother about such lokpal bill…………isnt it.

    You will remain the slave for your entire life and leave this gift for your future generation.

    [Reply]

  • http://nuclearsupremacyforindiaoverus.blogspot.com Satish Chandra

    Try your solution to corruption on the following:-

    First a little about the Grover murder.
    I am the world’s foremost behavioral scientist and my blog, ‘Nuclear Supremacy For India Over U.S.’ can be found by a Yahoo search with the title. The victim was there at the invitation of the woman who invited him for the purpose of engaging in fornication. What kind of a “fiance” was the killer to her if not just another fornicator? Had they been married, he would have had the right to divorce her; had he given her an engagement ring, he would have had the right to demand the ring back; had the victim used violence against him first, that might have been provocation for counter-violence. Had he found him forcibly raping a friend or even a stranger, that would have been provocation for violence, even extreme violence. Going to your favorite whcre and finding her with another customer is not justification for murder. If they were having perverted 3-way sex involving violence like the Amanda Knox case in Italy, that is still murder. Chopping into over 300 pieces suggests the two cooked and made a curry of the victim and ate him and the police and judge knew that, saying they ‘burned’ the pieces instead of ‘cooked’ the pieces; the two took the skull, rib cage and leg bones to the forest. The fact that he bled to death over several hours suggests that parts of his body were cut out while he was still alive and eaten raw. The victim may have been invited by the two not for fornication but for eating him. “Provocation” might provide extenuating circumstances for a lighter sentence, not for acquittal, if the victim had been slapped. For killing and chopping the victim’s body in over 300 pieces, burning/cooking the pieces and transporting the bones to a forest, both of these deserve to hang. The High Court or the Supreme Court should step in, on its own or at the request of the victim’s family and also remove the judge from the bench. The criminals must not be allowed to profit from their crime.

    The police knew that the two cut the victim in more than 300 pieces because the killer woman told the police that in her confession. The entire text of the confession must be made public. That will make clear that all that took place in over three years after the confession was an exercise in covering up and compounding the crime, by the police and judge primarily. Unless the confession is made public first, the High Court and Supreme Court will continue the exercise.

    The two perpetrators of the crime are reportedly from Kerala. They may be Cochin Jews (many Jews take cover identities as Christians as the woman in this case has). Jews have been associated with practices that involve re-enacting the crucifixion of Christ on their victims — death by crucifixion, for which the police and judge used the term ’stabbing’, following torture takes several hours of bleeding as occurred to the victim in this case — and using the blood, etc. of the victim as food, as occurred in this case.

    The cover up of the crimes in the case and the light sentences and VIP treatment given to the perpetrators are due to India’s Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) through which Israel has established profound control over the Indian government described in my blog above.

    Added on July 4 ‘11: The movie and TV offers to the killer woman which have also shocked the public were due to the control that American Jews — whose control over the American movie industry and media is proverbial — have established over the Indian media. The Jews moved to establish substantial control over Indian media including cinema and cinema theater chains after a letter of mine in Delhi’s Patriot newspaper two decades ago, referred to in my blog, about the movie ‘Schindler’s List’ about the killing of Jews during World War II. Their control over other media such as television came in a flood during the BJP government because Israel has been the sponsor of both terrorism and defences against terrorism and has had the BJP in its pocket for the political benefits it has brought it. After I wrote the preceding paragraphs yesterday, the Indian media dropped the Grover murder case; instead I saw on NDTV today two consecutive stories that ran for perhaps ten minutes and were endlessly repeated about a drunken man who was son of a ruling party politician, who engaged in “eve-teasing”, tied and dragged “like an animal” despite being son of a ruling party politician and a boy who returned a rickshaw late tied to the rickshaw with a chain — both in Bihar. My blog above describes crimes of the Jews against India that are billions of times more serious than the murder above which are being covered up by India’s media, government and political parties for decades.

    July 5, 2011: When some people in Pakistan (likely instigated by Jews) beheaded a Jew named Daniel Pearl of the Wall Street Journal, Indians foolishly joined in the condemnation when they ought to be cutting up the New York Times correspondent(s) in India in over 300 pieces and feeding them to the Israeli embassy staff.

    The Jews’ fondness for human flesh is far easier sated on Indians than on those around them. Thousands of missing children from India end up in Israeli kitchens and it costs them less than goat meat.

    There are Indians who take part in this trafficking but do not know the children are headed for the kitchens. All Indian governments in recent years have facilitated this trafficking and have been handsomely rewarded by the Israelis.

    The cover up by police and politicians of the trafficking and killing of Indians for organs in the Nithari case in Noida is well known. The trafficking of Indians for food occurs on a much bigger scale. When the Congress Party president and her son spent a number of days in Switzerland recently taking care of their black money there, they were told in no uncertain terms by the Jewish bankers that their ability to keep their black money hidden depended on the continuation of the trafficking of Indians for food. Both the Congress Party president and her son had to partake of such food with their bankers to seal the agreement.

    July 6, 2011: RAW had proposed a processing facility to prepare and ship the meat of Indians to Israel but it was rejected because Jewish custom requires the victims to be tortured and killed over several hours before they can be eaten as was done in the Grover murder. Recently the Supreme Court included the head of RAW in a panel on black money abroad so the Supreme Court judges’ share in the money can be better negotiated.

    The bankers — who work with their governments — also had the Congress Party president and her son agree to take their dictation in all matters — domestic and international — concerning India. I have described over the past two and a half decades, in articles, letters to the press and press releases, how the disclosures of kickbacks in the Bofors and HDW deals were orchestrated and calibrated by the CIA to force Rajiv Gandhi to agree to have India’s population used as guinea pigs for AIDS vaccine development and how heroin addiction and AIDS infection were spread by RAW for this purpose first in India’s tribal Northeast and later the infection was taken all over India. The agreement the Congress party president and her son made during their long stay in Switzerland makes India the happy hunting ground of European countries and the United States in all matters, making Indians a population of cattle for their use as they see fit, not just for food and as guinea pigs.

    July 11, 2011: If, in a maneuver to save itself and the government in New Delhi, RAW has proposed basing India’s nuclear-armed missiles in Iran from where they can reach Israel, it should be rejected. Any such moves will be reported in all details by RAW to the CIA and subjected to all the sabotage it is capable of. RAW employees deserve the death penalty for the gravest treason and cannot escape it. India’s nuclear-armed missiles can reach Israel directly from India.

    July 12, 2011: A day ahead of an announcement, on July 11 ‘11, of a national security task force and in preparation for it, RAW carried out two railway accidents within hours of each other on July 10 ‘11, killing about a hundred; the one in Assam has been named as being due to a bomb and the cause of the one in U. P. remains unknown. I said in my blog (above) on October 29, 2005: “As I have shown in letters to the press over the years, almost all terrorist acts in India over the past 23 or so years have been carried out by India’s Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), often through groups sponsored by it in other countries and the explosions in Delhi today are no exception. And RAW acts as a branch of the C.I.A. in carrying out these explosions as in many other acts of destruction and sabotage against India, including some train accidents such as the Gaisal train disaster which killed several hundreds, as I said at that time.” The purpose is to make terrorism the main threat to national security and keep India busy tackling terrorism with the help of Israel and the United States. Members of the national security task force include an ex-head of RAW and Kakodkar, who took a hefty American bribe to castrate India through the nuclear deal and the task force is headed by Naresh Chandra who, like almost all Indian ambassadors to the United States, worked for the CIA (see my blog).

    Why was U. P. chosen for the deadlier of the two railway accidents? The Nehru family is CIA-RAW’s designated ruler of India and Google News India front page has 34 stories under “Rahul visits rail mishap victims in UP” such as “Video: Rahul visits Kalka Mail survivors”, “Rahul Gandhi Thrashes Indian Railways Over Kalka Mail Accident Bad Management”. Right under that is a collection of stories under the heading “Congress For Aggressive Campaign Against Mayawati [in U. P.]“. In other words, the accident was staged so Rahul Gandhi could visit the victims and his visits to the victims splashed all over the media and so to politically promote CIA-RAW’s designated rulers who have been having problems in U. P. I have pointed out similar political purposes in the Gaisal train disaster and other accidents and terrorist incidents.

    The Congress Party president is known to be a whcre and her son a gang-rapist. Having eaten the meat of Indians with her Jewish bankers, she has a lot in common with the woman who committed the Grover murder who was referred to by the judge in his judgment released on July 7 as a “lady” who was too “feeble” to have killed anyone. To ‘neutralize’ what I wrote about their partaking of the meat of Indians with their Jewish bankers, the son refrained, like an upper caste Hindu, from eating food offered to him by a dalit family in U. P. with whom he stayed, according to Mayawati who called him a “casteist” for this reason. But his father was half-Parsi and his mother is a Mleccha — an untouchable who cannot be permitted to enter Hindu temples and nor can he, being a Mleccha untouchable himself and there is nothing either he or his mother or CIA-RAW can do to change this since caste is determined by birth, despite the lives and blood of hundreds more Indians sacrificed for him in the Kalka Mail accident.

    The murder of Madhav Rao Scindia by plane crash by CIA-RAW, to keep the way clear for the Nehru family, is one instance of murders this whcre has committed. She had fornicated with Scindia before killing him, just like the woman who murdered Grover had fornicated with him first. Fornicating with a victim and then killing him often go together. The Congress Party president is a practiced practitioner of this combination of acts.

    July 15, 2011: To distract from what is said in the preceding paragraph, which was transmitted at 8:34 A.M. IST of July 13, 2011, RAW carried out the blasts in Mumbai ten hours later the same day starting about 6:50 P. M. IST of July 13 ‘11.

    July 19, 2011: It was only after my reference above to RAW’s maneuvers to “save itself and the government in New Delhi” that, in order to save itself, the Supreme Court prodded the police to act in the cash-for-vote scandal on the nuclear deal and so now the Department of Atomic Energy admits India’s uranium deposits are at least 350,000 tons — not including the unlimited uranium available from sea water — which not just Kakodkar but even the present AEC head, Srikumar Banerjee, was hiding up to now along with everyone else. So now the government has approached Canada for joint marketing of reactors to third countries to maintain white control over India’s nuclear program. All white countries work together; CIA had tried to run me over while walking on sidewalks in Buffalo, NY, twice within a space of 2-3 days — one instance of which I described in my blog — and there are similar threats to my life from the Canadian government of which running me over while crossing streets on foot is one, while the whcre above has the entire traffic for miles around stopped when she goes out. This is not an independent India. I still cannot come to India without being killed. There are numerous ways RAW can bamboozle people — one instance of which was having India’s nuclear warheads tested in Russian and French high energy labs instead of undergoing explosive tests that I dealt with in a press release — and there is no way India can emerge from slavery without me. India’s National Security Doctrine — stated in my blog — must be implemented in full; neither RAW nor the government in New Delhi can be allowed to survive and there is no time to waste.

    July 22, 2011: In an addendum dated December 12 ‘06 to January 9 ‘06 in my blog above I wrote “A report on a mega refinery complex being set up in an SEZ on India’s west coast by Reliance refers to the several thousand luxurious villas that will be built for foreign workers while Indian slave laborers will live in slave housing; the output of the refinery –gasoline– will be used almost exclusively by American consumers but the environmental harm caused by the refinery will occur in India; by using Indian companies as a front– in this case Reliance into which Americans will be putting their money– American capital will be producing gasoline for American consumers using Indians as slave labor and transferring the pollution caused by the refineries to India. In no way can this SEZ be called a part of India’s economy.” To counter this, CIA-RAW is now bringing in foreign capital for the production of gas for use in India just as it is bringing in foreign capital and technology to create 100 million manufacturing jobs in India, referred to in my blog: (Business Standard, July 23, 2011) “The Centre’s nod to the Reliance-BP deal may provide the British oil major its long-desired footprint in the Indian exploration and production sector.

    The $7.2 billion deal is the biggest ever foreign direct investment in the country and will allow RIL and BP to float a joint venture company which will look at trading and marketing of natural gas in India. The Committee on Economic Affairs (CCEA) on Friday allowed Reliance Industries Ltd to sale 30 per cent stake in 21 blocks to BP.”

    In my letter dated January 30, 2005, included in my blog above, I wrote: “When the Russian government sells a portion of a Russian oil company to an Indian company which provides it with, say, five billion dollars, what will those five billion dollars accomplish that the Russian government cannot accomplish by printing an equivalent amount in roubles? Being able to print money without limit (except those set by environmental effects) means a government has an unlimited amount of money for investment. Seeking foreign investment is the same as unnecessarily giving away your country’s assets to foreigners. The Indian government does the same and is guilty of treason as well as stupidity.”

    A fuller quote from the addendum dated December 12 ‘06 to January 9 ‘07 in my blog is the following:-
    ————-START QUOTE—————-
    “Slavery in nuclear matters also makes possible slavery in economic matters. In Special Economic Zones (SEZs), American companies use Indians as slave laborers– paying them a fraction of what even the lowest paid American workers are paid– to produce goods and services for the American consumer. In no way can the output of Special Economic Zones be considered a part of India’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP), nor should the output of software export and call center, etc. (B.P.O.) operations–which meet the needs of American companies and American consumers– be considered a part of India’s GDP and most of the rise in GDP growth rate, being trumpeted by traitors, is from the SEZs and IT and B.P.O. operations. If a foreign enemy comes and commandeers millions of Indians to work as slave labor to meet the needs of its own people– having them work within India rather than shipping them to America as slaves used to be shipped through native middlemen to pick cotton– it is still slavery. I have written about the fallacy because of which exports and earning a lot of foreign exchange are considered a good thing and said ‘A crore of goods and services sold domestically is worth several crores of goods and services sold abroad so far as the effect on India’s prosperity is concerned’. The foreign exchange (such as dollars) you get by selling goods and services abroad can only ultimately be used to buy goods and services abroad which starts chains of economic activity in the foreign country (the United States) rather than in your own country and, through the ‘multiplier effect’ I have described, increases the GDP of the foreign country by several times the amount of the foreign exchange you obtained, not your own country’s. A report on a mega refinery complex being set up in an SEZ on India’s west coast by Reliance refers to the several thousand luxurious villas that will be built for foreign workers while Indian slave laborers will live in slave housing; the output of the refinery –gasoline– will be used almost exclusively by American consumers but the environmental harm caused by the refinery will occur in India; by using Indian companies as a front– in this case Reliance into which Americans will be putting their money– American capital will be producing gasoline for American consumers using Indians as slave labor and transferring the pollution caused by the refineries to India. In no way can this SEZ be called a part of India’s economy. Even in the IT sector, the largest Indian company– Infosys– is more than half owned by foreigners; hundreds of thousands of engineering graduates per year are being produced by Indian engineering colleges — RAW, which runs the Indian government, acts as a branch of the C.I.A. against India and has engineered this use of Indian engineering graduates– to work as software coolies for American companies (you do not need engineering graduates to provide payroll processing which is what Indian software coolies have mostly been doing) while many others work night shifts in the B.P.O. industry, in call centers, doing what does not require even a high school education to do in the United States. SEZs were set up in China by bribing people in the Chinese government to let American companies use Chinese people as slave labor for American consumers and all the Chinese in government now wear Western suits and send as many Chinese for higher studies and to settle in the U.S. as do Indians. To camouflage the true nature of this arrangement, the United States government regularly ‘complains’ to the Chinese government about the U.S. “trade deficit” with China, but in no way can American companies producing in China, using Chinese as slave laborers, for the American consumer and then shipping the products to the United States be considered ‘trade’; it is slave trade but instead of the slaves’ bodies, their products are being shipped to the United States. Because of Indians knowing English, Americans first used Indians for IT and B.P.O. but are now switching to manufacture as well, the basic paradigm being the use of the populations of China and India as slave labor for the American consumer by bribing people in the governments of these countries. In the case of Russia, the paradigm is to loot Russia’s natural resources for the American consumer by bribing people in the Russian government. Because of the exchange rate, the slave laborers in the B.P.O., doing health-destroying work at night at a fraction of the wage rates of the lowest paid American workers, are paid large amounts in rupees (the foreign exchange goes to the government and can only be used ultimately to buy foreign goods and services and increase the foreign country’s GDP, not India’s, as I have said) which enables them to buy the output of ten times as many Indians while producing nothing for the Indian economy– the goods and services they produce meet the needs of American consumers and companies, not Indian consumers and companies. One million B.P.O. workers suck up the output of, say, ten million Indians; ten million B.P.O. workers will suck up the output of a hundred million Indians, while producing nothing for the Indian economy. Thus, American companies, while using ten million Indians as direct slave laborers, will be using a hundred million Indians as indirect slave laborers because a hundred million Indians will be supporting the ten million Indians working for American companies as slave laborers. And, since these ten million Indians will be producing nothing for the Indian economy (no goods or services for the Indian consumer) and will be sucking up the output of another one hundred million Indians– thus, they will be greatly REDUCING India’s GDP available to the rest of the population, not adding to it– the rupee salaries paid to these ten million Indians will be highly inflationary as well, further damaging the Indian economy. This applies to operations such as call centers (B.P.O.), software export and SEZs for export.

    Haryana’s chief minister asked how else to provide employment to the state’s population. By implementing my proposal about money (letters below), India can have true and extremely rapid prosperity and full employment.
    ———–END QUOTE————————

    The full text of the letter dated January 30, 2005 is the following:-
    ———–START QUOTE—————————
    The Russian government responded to the letter below by pooh-poohing “ideological prejudices and mercenary interests”. I have said below how enslaved the Indian government is to the Americans, causing and perpetuating the suffering of Indians. The Americans are succeeding in bringing the Russian government in a similar relationship.
    I have referred below to the fallacy because of which exports and earning a lot of foreign exchange are considered a good thing. When you export to the United States and earn dollars, those dollars, when used to purchase American goods and services, start chains of economic activity in the United States and, through the ‘multiplier effect’, increase the Gross Domestic Product of the United States, not your own country’s, by several times the amount of purchase. For this reason, I said several years ago, a crore of goods and services sold domestically is worth several crores of goods and services sold abroad, so far as the effect on India’s prosperity is concerned. In India there is a rapidly growing class of people who provide, for example, “call center” services to the Americans and many engineering graduates in India work in these jobs because of the pay rates. If the Indian government was serving India’s economic interests, by implementing my proposal about money, these workers will be serving the needs of Indian consumers, not of Americans (and engineers will be doing engineering, not call center jobs). These examples are the least of the economic and political horrors India’s slave relationship to the United States involves.//
    When the Russian government sells a portion of a Russian oil company to an Indian company which provides it with, say, five billion dollars, what will those five billion dollars accomplish that the Russian government cannot accomplish by printing an equivalent amount in roubles? Being able to print money without limit (except those set by environmental effects) means a government has an unlimited amount of money for investment. Seeking foreign investment is the same as unnecessarily giving away your country’s assets to foreigners. The Indian government does the same and is guilty of treason as well as stupidity.
    When the United States buys any goods and services from other countries, it pays in dollars which the other countries can only use by buying American goods and services and, in the process, increasing the American Gross Domestic Product through the ‘multiplier effect’. When India buys goods and services from the United States, it cannot pay in rupees.
    ———-END QUOTE————————

    The earlier letter referred to above is my letter dated January 23, 2005 which said the following:-
    ———-START QUOTE————————-
    My proposal about money is in the economic field what nuclear weapons are in the military field and the white countries are as intent on denying economic power it will bring to the lesser breeds as they are on denying the military power of the nuclear bomb. A member of the G-8 has written to the prime minister of Britain, which has summoned India, to exercise “authority” over India of the white countries (as a Japanese academic said to me, Japan is a colony of the United States which has hundreds of military bases on its soil) which are the “major donors” in the tsunami relief and to intimidate the Indian government into not implementing my proposal about money. As should be clear from my letter dated January 21, 2005, below, the dispensers of money– whether the white countries or the multilateral bodies controlled by them– are the government of the governments of countries like India.

    In a letter to the Indian press I said several years ago that India’s national security requires that it take steps to proactively disarm and, if necessary, destroy the G-8 countries (leave out Japan) whose combined population does not equal India’s. This is the standard against which the Indian government should judge itself. By implementing my proposal about money, this is entirely feasible.

    As I have said (letter dated July 14, 2004, below), my proposal about money is the greatest development in the history of social science– greater than Marxism– and, arguably, the greatest development in human history. Instead of meeting criminalbushmonkey in February, Russia’s president (who wrote the above letter to Britain’s prime minister because he couldn’t countenance a mere Indian giving economic advice, never mind the jew from Harvard– a beneficiary of the crimes against me there– devastating the Russian economy with galloping inflation– bringing the rouble to something like 10,000 to a dollar– and causing untold and continuing misery, cutting industrial production, per capita incomes and life expectancy, etc., etc.) should study what I have written about money and greatly improve the prospects for Russia and the world.
    ——–END QUOTE————————

    This is what I said in press releases on November 26, 2010 and November 29, 2010:-
    ————START QUOTE——————
    ADDED ON NOVEMER 26, 2010: When I say there is no substitute for full yield explosive tests of nuclear weapons, I say this from a purely engineering point of view and not for demonstrating to the world that our weapons work. As I said in a letter to the press after the 1998 tests when R. Chidambaram claimed that his computer models enable him to build higher yield weapons which need not undergo explosive tests, ‘One could not legitimately rely on an automobile engine developed on that basis if your life depended on its working the very first time it is ever used, much less a nuclear weapon’. This applies to both computer models and laboratory models. What happens in a high energy lab is a highly imperfect laboratory model of a nuclear weapon which does not take account of a multitude of things. If computer models and laboratory models were sufficient, there will be no need for flight tests of missiles and jet aircraft, etc.

    The Physics of what happens in a nuclear explosion cannot adequately be replicated in a high energy lab. Laboratory models of missiles and jet aircraft may not have this deficiency but laboratory models of nuclear weapons do.
    ————–END QUOTE——————

    ————–START QUOTE——————
    ADDED ON NOVEMBER 29, 2010: It is now being put out that a “fix” has been applied to the 1998 failed thermonuclear weapon design and there is no need for an explosive test of the “fixed” design because the designers have “confidence” it will work. But it is a very foolish designer who does not test his “fix” with an explosive test. Didn’t R. Chidambaram have confidence in his 1998 design which failed? There has been no “fix” until the weapon is shown to work in an explosive test — shown as much to the designer as to the world. A designer who says it is not necessary is too stupid to design even a toaster, much less a nuclear weapon.
    ————–END QUOTE———————-

    Indian companies buying assets in Britain and the United States is not the same as British and American companies buying assets in India because Britain and the United States can and do militarily enforce their ownership of assets in other countries, even their ownership of things in other countries that are theirs only by way of plunder and military force, but India cannot enforce its ownership of assets in the United States and Britain.

    It is not just that companies like Reliance are a front for American and British interests; India’s government is a front for the American government which works for the United States and other white countries, not India.

    Why was a British company rather than an American company brought in by CIA-RAW for this largest ever ‘Foreign Direct Investment’ (FDI)? Just as CIA-RAW had arranged for the purchase of light water reactors from Russia first, calculating that there will be less resistance to such a harmful deal with Russia and it will set the stage for an invasion by American companies, CIA-RAW arranged for this largest ever FDI by a British company first — since Indian companies like Tata have bought British companies like Jaguar — and that will set the stage for an American takeover of India. The Indian government approaching Canada to jointly market nuclear reactors to third countries has a similar purpose because that will require India to sign the international convention on compensation that the United States has been demanding which will open the flood gates to the import of light water reactors from American companies. The Department of Atomic Energy had strenuously opposed the import of Russian light water reactors, saying it will only benefit the Russian nuclear industry, it will break India’s control over the nuclear fuel cycle, etc. (see my blog) just as Kakodkar — before he was bought up — had strenuously opposed the nuclear deal in May, 2005 on the way to Washington with Manmohan Singh (see my blog) but now the current AEC head, Banerjee (he has a son settled in the United States), has said that, even with Uranium reserves of 350,000 tons, Uranium imports — and so the nuclear deal — are necessary because of the size of the power generation requirements and all of them have thrown India’s commitment to the Thorium route out the window fraudulently saying it will take about a century to come on line and are sabotaging India’s nuclear program in other ways such as by switching to “proliferation-resistant” reactors ( this is another purpose of wanting to export reactors) from which material to make weapons cannot be obtained (see my blog). None of this will be allowed; to implement the National Security Doctrine, ALL of India’s reactors will be operated in the military mode to produce ten thousand nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them to the continental United States within five years and my blog above shows how this will be enforced.

    July 27, 2011: India’s National Security Doctrine says “There is no need to have a particular enemy. You create aggressors and invite aggression simply by being weak. Today not being able to destroy ANY nation on Earth is being weak. Not punishing an aggressor — not destroying the United States coast to coast — is also being weak.”

    India has said that its nuclear warheads have been emplaced in various cities/countries such as New Delhi — the seat of CIA rule over India — Washington and New York. The first step is the simultaneous nuclear destruction of these three cities, with a warning that additional U.S. cities will be destroyed if there is any retaliation. The only way the United States can keep two to three additional cities from being destroyed is by doing nothing in return. The first step will end CIA rule over India, enabling it to build thousands of nuclear-armed missiles capable of reaching the United States and five years later India can finish the job with its coast-to-coast destruction. The first step will inaugurate a new era for the world and history awaits it with bated breath.

    August 1, 2011: Google News India front page a few minutes ago had two headlines: “Let Sonia promise separate Telangana first: TDP legislators” and “Gadkari to Sonia: What action will you take against PM?”. The whcre above is being treated as the empress of India by everyone. The head of the Strategic Forces Command is a Christian and now the head of the Indian Air Force is also a Christian, not to mention that the Defence Minister is a Christian as was his predecessor — motivated appointments, at the direction of the CIA, of armed forces chiefs who would be loyal to the whcre above and to the white countries, expressly made to prevent India from emerging from slavery. Is this the reason the nuclear destruction of New Delhi, Washington and New York has not been carried out yet? The implementation of the National Security Doctrine, of which the first step is the nuclear destruction of New Delhi, Washington and New York, must proceed — BY ALL MEANS — regardless of who is appointed head. Since India has said that its nuclear warheads have been emplaced in various cities/countries including New Delhi, Washington and New York, there is no reason to delay the destruction of these three cities; each day’s delay is dereliction of duty.

    August 8, 2011: If you look into the “privacy” of the whcre above, you will find the source of India’s problems.

    In my Press Release dated August 14, 2008 (see my blog) I said :-
    ———–START QUOTE————–
    As I have said (see addendums below) getting India’s nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards, whether or not India imports American reactors, has been a prime American goal because at least 75% of the damage to India’s nuclear program would have been done once the facilities are placed under IAEA inspections, even if nothing further is done and no nuclear deal with the United States is finally signed and no foreign reactors, from the United States or from Russia or France, are bought. Any move to put Indian nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards, beyond the ones under IAEA inspections at present, is a grave injury to the nation and an invasion of India like the American invasion of Iraq and deserves a response appropriate to an invasion.

    A country that has ten thousand nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them to the continental United States cannot be restricted from importing, without IAEA inspections, etc., however much uranium it wants from wherever it wants by the United States or any other power; the power of nuclear weapons is what India needs; electricity can be produced in numerous other ways for the time being. Agreeing to even talks on new inspections with the IAEA — an instrument of American imperialism — are acts of treason and deserve commensurately severe punishment. Nuclear supremacy over the United States has to be India’s national objective and its one point agenda (see addendums below). The IAEA inspections are totally incompatible with nuclear supremacy over the United States and deserve to be summarily rejected without going into any details.
    The assault on India’s nuclear program, of which the IAEA inspections are the central part, is the present day version of a foreign invasion. Military supremacy over an invader is not optional but essential for survival. Military supremacy today means nuclear supremacy. But “nuclear supremacy” or “strategic nuclear supremacy” for India is not even mentioned by Indian politicians, press, ’strategic experts’, etc., infiltrated and controlled as they are by the firangi enemy. As I have said, many Iraqi generals were bought up by Americans in the course of their 2003 invasion but it did not make it any less of an invasion and the invasion was expressly called an invasion on Iraq’s nuclear program. The fact that many Indian politicians and others have been bought up does not make this any less of an invasion. This is a war for survival and for independence and requires the energy, speed, commitment and a full spectrum mobilisation appropriate to a war.

    Internal security is a necessary component of national security. For India, internal security requires the following:
    1) Citizen inspectors should constantly inspect all nuclear facilities, particularly those included in the ‘civilian list’ for IAEA inspections, for any signs of inspections by firangis or their agents brought in the past or future, by stealth or otherwise, to ensure that no IAEA inspections take place (see addendums below).
    2) No firangi should be allowed on the streets of Indian cities or elsewhere unless accompanied by firangi-watchers and firangi-hunters and can satisfy the latter that he/she is going for some legitimate purpose — such as buying food — and will not engage in activities to infiltrate/subvert Indian institutions or individuals in any way by engaging in conversations or other interactions/associations that are not legitimate such as asking the price of a food item he/she wants to buy.
    3) Any Indian found associating with firangis in any way should be beaten to death on the spot.

    In a country such as North Korea, firangi-watchers and firangi-hunters could ensure that no firangi can subvert any institutions or individuals in their country. But then the firangis enforce/threaten to enforce their control over their country by military force/invasion. IAEA inspections are always backed up by military force/invasions by the firangis. In India, the military and civil servants have always been loyal to the firangis, as I showed in the addendum dated July 25, 2008, titled ‘The Day India’s Emperor Was Arrested By A Lone Englishman’ below . In addition, as I said in the same addendum, “No one in Delhi/New Delhi wants nuclear supremacy for India” (see my article titled ‘Why Nuclear Supremacy?’ in addendum dated July 19, 2008, below ) and thus the entire population of Delhi/New Delhi consists of traitors. That is why killing off the politicians, the military, the civil servants and the rest of the population of Delhi/New Delhi with a nuclear bomb is necessary to save India as a whole; the ban against the firangis can then be enforced in the rest of India till India has ten thousand nuclear warheads and can kill off the entire population of the most powerful firangi country.
    ——————END Quote———————–

    Less than a week after my two articles excerpted below, the CIA Director Michael Hayden and K. Subrahmanyam came on line and offered to transfer one crore rupees into my account within 48 hours if I agreed to work with them (see my blog):-

    (From article of August 4, 2008 titled National Security: Ridding India of Firangis & Their Agents)://

    —————–START QUOTE——————
    The nuclear deal, of which the IAEA inspections are a part, is being IMPOSED on India — the control of politicians and others by bribery, etc., is also a part of the imposition though the ultimate threat of military action is its foundation — and this imposition is a manifestation of India’s state of subjugation to the firangi which has other aspects — such as sending 80,000 postgraduate students to the United States every year, making no serious effort to educate them in India, putting half a million engineers and others on the payroll, directly or indirectly, of the United States every year, so they join the millions other Indians, military and non-military, on British payrolls willing to give their lives for their British masters and now are willing to give their lives for their American masters. The opposition to the nuclear deal is founded on an opposition to subjugation to the firangi, which requires demanding strategic nuclear supremacy over the United States. Not demanding nuclear supremacy over the United States leaves India open to the nuclear deal and other things being IMPOSED on a subjugated India, subjugated by killing uncounted millions in the past and the subjugation maintained by the threat of killing even more in the future. The Guardian (August 24, 2007, Internet, report by Randeep Ramesh) said: “India’s secret history: ‘A holocaust, one where millions disappeared…’: Author says British reprisals involved the killing of 10 m, spread over 10 years:…” As I have shown, the killings and the subjugation continued right up to 1947. The ability of the Americans to kill and subjugate is incomparably greater than that of the British and India is faced with an even deeper slavery to the Americans with the nuclear deal which, as I have said, is a multi-pronged invasion of India. One does not need to refer to the holocaust beginning 1857 to know the incomparably greater American threat and its consequences. Attaining strategic nuclear supremacy over the firangi and using this supremacy to eliminate this incomparably greater threat is India’s real War of Independence.

    Weapons are the foundation of sovereignty. Adopting strategic nuclear supremacy over the United States as a national objective — which is the operative part of sovereignty, rejecting subjugation to the firangi — automatically makes the nuclear deal untenable and unthinkable. Without adopting nuclear supremacy over the United States as a national objective, the nuclear deal also will continue to be IMPOSED on India by various methods. Adopting strategic nuclear supremacy as a national objective not only wards off the nuclear deal and frees India from subjugation to the firangi but also opens the floodgates to prosperity and achievement in every sphere that a billion-plus people are capable of (see my articles ‘How India‘s Economy Can Grow 30% Per Year Or More‘ and ‘A Magical Solution To India‘s And The World‘s Economic Problems‘ in the addendum dated July 30, 2008, below). Unlike the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, India’s nuclear supremacy will be directed at eliminating the threat, because the United States, by its nature, will be constantly striving for nuclear supremacy. The threat must die for India to live. A single-minded pursuit of strategic nuclear supremacy is required for this. The firangi and his Indian agents subvert and obstruct this. The three steps for India’s internal security listed above are necessary to deal with the subversion and obstruction.
    —————END QUOTE————————

    (From article of August 2, 2008 titled No IAEA Inspections Will Be Allowed In India):

    —————-START QUOTE—————–
    The illegitimate, traitor ‘government’ in New Delhi cannot enter into any IAEA agreements for India. No IAEA inspections of any Indian facilities, beyond those that were under such inspections on January 1, 2006, will be allowed. Even those facilities that were under IAEA inspections on January 1, 2006 may, in fact will, be withdrawn from such inspections.

    The traitors of the B.J.P. responded to my reference to the firangi control of India’s media (see addendum dated August 1, 2008, ’Suppression By The Media’, below) by trying to divert attention away from the firangi enemy — and the firangis’ invasion of India in the form of the IAEA inspections — and direct it toward other Indians (which is what Bangladeshis, like other muslims of the subcontinent, are); a B.J.P. spokesman referred to Bangladeshi “infiltration”, never mind the firangis’ invasion of India’s nuclear program and infiltration — which in fact is almost total control — of Indian media, government, politicians, etc. The nuclear bomb that will destroy New Delhi will destroy the B.J.P. traitors as surely as any other (see my article ‘Imminent End of Firangi Rule Over India‘ in addendums below).
    —————END QUOTE—————-

    I said above that if you look into the “privacy” of the whcre above you will find the source of India’s problems. This is what you will find : “India’s greatest scientist and greatest living Indian publicly tortured in Harvard seminar, systematically and totally starved for up to 3 weeks at a time, made semi-starved and homeless and even blind for years, kept under 24-hour audio and video surveillance as well as surveillance of communications and electrical typewriter and computer use, document creation and photocopying, etc., by satellite for more than past 3 decades, systematically harassed and in poverty and neutralised and robbed of his work at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars per year, robbed of crores in his money and property in India by C.I.A.-RAW, forced back into exile in the U.S., all with full cooperation and participation of India’s RAW and India’s C.I.A.-RAW-controlled prime ministers, politicians and media — to keep India poor, weak and enslaved” and how this means the nuclear destruction of New Delhi and then the coast-to-coast destruction of the United States.

    Satish Chandra

    [Reply]

  • Gaurav Kaushik

    You may be well meaning and wanting something in India to be fixed but in current context, it is too much digression and dilutes the discussion in hand – This blog should present posters urgently a button which allow others to term something as spam so that it can be reviewed by moderator and if possible be removed. Such a system can be seen working on economist.

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  • rajkumar

    Nice post..I think Anna totally wasting his and our time, money of gov, his energy. If any
    thing bad is their in jan lokepal bill it will be looked after latter on when time will come, which will take another 5 to 10 year.

    [Reply]

    raj101 Reply:

    — which will take another 5 to 10 year.

    at least your children & grand children will have a better future.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.annavotaingin ishant

    anna ji ko insaf do mahgai hatao

    [Reply]

  • raj101

    — The classic position is that electors choose representatives on the basis of electoral platforms and then leave it to them to make decisions on their behalf. If the legislators consistently take the wrong decisions – or at any rate, decisions that electors strongly disagree with – then they are voted out at the next election.

    this is really stupid, raja & 2G sacm(you also included), so no action should be taken on him, wait for 5 years to loot more & in next election kick him out ? so we the voters hv no choice in kicking him out & replace with a better one. ( since the prime minister cannot do it due to coalition compulsion !!!)at the best PM will ask him to resign, but this raja will get all benefits of MP for next 3 years !!!

    Congress cham cha, no wonder you are with raja.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Very well analyzed article. But I fail to understand (and blame it to my non-financial background) how would they use the financial system to their benefit if the companies from two nations involved in trade only deal in cash or other foreign securities.

    I also like to see the analysis how India can safe guard its interests in this game.

    [Reply]

    geekay Reply:

    Indian goods are cheap. Even if they do not to import directly, they have indian goods via gulf and Singapore. Dealing directly with India makes these Indian imports much cheaper. The trade currently 2.6 Billion between India and Pakistan is in India ’s favour .Pakistan has 14% of that and rest belongs to India. So, that ’s why, if they decide on importing directly, they can reduce more of their import bill. For India, there is nothing to be worried about. After all, India needs to grow as well and more trade and dependency between two nations means Pakistani Hawks will be on their back feet and less terrorism for India. War and tensions do not help the growth and objective to lift people above poverty line. So, whatever you can trade, it is good even if it is Pakistan or China as same arguments applies to China.

    [Reply]