Defamations and redressals



Should one be able to defame people on the Internet without any fear of retribution? Should people who have been defamed on the Internet have no legal redress?At one level, these questions are meaningless. If something I write in this blog defames you then you are free to sue both me and HT Media, the owners of this site. The problem arises when the defamation is carried by anonymous sites. Suppose that instead of writing this blog under my own name, I ran an anonymous blog hosted by Google or some other giant. If I defamed you, you would have no way of knowing who I was or of finding me to serve a legal notice.

Some people would argue that this is only right. The Internet is a medium that allows freedom to its users. Allow the law to decide what users can say and what they cannot and you destroy the spirit of the Internet.

Others would argue that it is not so simple. Assume somebody posts a blog saying that your mother is a prostitute. Suppose he includes her telephone number and mischievously urges potential customers to phone her.

In these circumstances, what legal redress is open to you? The blogger is anonymous and his blog is secret. So, not only can you not sue him for defamation or worse, but you cannot even get him to delete the reference to your mother.

Do we tolerate this situation on the grounds that the Internet is a free medium?

I think not.

I am all for Internet freedom but I think we should be clear about definitions. If you write that I am the world’s worst writer, that I am an ugly sod, and that you want to throw up each time you read anything I write, I might be hurt but I would also recognise that you had a right to these views.

If, on the other hand, you wrote that I was a bank robber who had been arrested in two previous cases, then I would regard these statements as false and defamatory and reserve my right to take legal action.

As the old cliché goes, comment is free but facts are sacred.

Nevertheless, the practical problems remain. If a blogger is anonymous, then how do you take action against him even if a clear instance of defamation exists?

A case currently pending before the Bombay High Court offers one instance. The plaintiffs, who believe they have been defamed, are suing Google which hosts the offending blog. Their position is that if Google is the host then it must accept some measure of responsibility.

It is a position that has its roots in the law as it applies to other media. If I use my HT column to call you names, then not only am I liable for defamation, but so are the editor, printer and publisher of the HT as well as HT Media itself. If I defame you on this site, then HT Media is liable. If I am invited as a guest on an NDTV programme and proceed to defame you then it does not matter whether I am the anchor or a guest, NDTV is still liable.

If you go by these precedents, then there seems to me to be no doubt that Google is liable. You cannot offer a platform for defamation and then, accept no responsibility for the defamation when it occurs.

While the legal position seems to me to be clear-cut, there are practical problems. The Internet is essentially an editor-less medium and this is one of its strengths. If I defame you in print or on TV, there is somebody who is in a position to stop me either before the defamation reaches a wider audience or even (in the case of TV) during the programme itself. This does not apply to the Internet. How is Google going to check every blog before it is published? What of Wikipedia, that repository of mistakes, lies and half-truths? If a site prides itself on offering free access to everyone, then how does it control what people can say?

I have no answers but here is a suggestion. If you are libelled on an anonymous blog, then I don’t think Google can necessarily be held responsible. But if you complain and the offending item is not removed at once then I think that Google is liable for the defamation.

If this suggestion is implemented, then Google will have to spend some money to set up a large complaints department that vets submissions from bloggers and those who feel that they have been defamed. Wikipedia claims to have done something like this and Google itself seems to accept the position. While it may not have as large a complaints division as we would like, there are instances where it has acted to remove blogs after complaints have been received.

So, to summarize, in moral terms, Google is liable. In real terms, the courts should allow it an opportunity to remove the defamatory item at once. But if Internet hosts persist in taking the line that they have no responsibility, then they should be made to pay.

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (39 votes, average: 2.49 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...
  • http://- Rajeev

    Mr.Sanghvi,
    You have call a person “Mass murderer” n number of times in Print, TV and Internet.
    Can that person file defamation suit against you? I hope you won’t cry media suppression when that happens.

    You are trying to muzzle frank discussion by bringing in defamation etc. The fact is that you are unable to take criticism in right spirit. If people call you loyal to Congress, they are doing this based on your columns and blogs contents. No one is getting personal here.

    You need to come out of stone age and welcome the true democracy. You will be criticised so learn to live with it.

    No one is stopping you from writing praises of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty but when you do it pretending to be neutral, people see thru it and get annoyed. Declare yourself a pro-congress journalist and write whatever you want. No one will object to it.

    [Reply]

    jimmy Reply:

    this guy does not realize that common redaers have no motives ..unlike him..his boss is a congress nominated mp..her name bhartiya..he will hide this..but have no qualms lieing 24-7 about bjp and modi…..and as if that is not enough he will moralize here on his blogs
    about things that he himself does not practice and is the biggest violator like defamation..

    the guy called amit shah brazen and modi a mass murderer and defamed hindus worldwide by hidng godhra tarin victims while tomtomming post godhra for his political bribes just like his other elmedia hate hindu hate bjp gang..

    the guy was wagging his tail in front of sonia gandhi at ht summit while his lynchmob audince was let loose on modi ..u can see the video..this guy was bowing before musharaf at agra with his otehr craven media frends..

    the man should get a medal for best student in fraud from his congress training school.

    its a disgrace to india that this lowest life calls himself media…

    the man was paid his share in the loot by telecom raja an dthe cbi is hiding that and this guy loves that and lectures about cbi doing its job on modi and amit shah..

    this guy was note even taught about rights and laws and he and his media frends
    run sharia courts on their tv and papers against only hidnus and bjp..

    teh guy calls sorabuddin a martyr and modi amssmuderer…and defends mass murder rajiv on bhopal and and derson and sikh riots 84

    even criminals do not pose holy like this traitor ..and traeson is is the biggest crime

    [Reply]

    Sam Donaldson Reply:

    Bravo Bravo!!! Bring this guy down.

    [Reply]

    Sam Donaldson Reply:

    It’s the same case for NDTV debates. Why don’t they declare the debate Congress-biased so those who actually care about the BJP can switch the channel, rather than watch the BJP’s destruction for 45 minutes.

    [Reply]

  • http://NONE MUHAMMAD CHODO

    THANKS TO INTERNET AND ELECTRONIC MEDIA, HONEST REDAER ATLEAST EXPOSED THESE LEFAFA-JOURNALIST LIKE MR.SANGHVI. HE THOUGH ALL THE LEADERS ARE STUPID AND HE DELIBERATELY INSULT THEM WITH FAKE/FRADULENT STORIES AGAINST BJP TO SUPPORT CONGRESS PARTY. EVERY BODY KNOWS RIGHT NOW EVEN AL-QUEDA CAN HIRE HIM TO WRITE IN FAVOR OF THEM FOR MONEY. THIS EXACTLY MADAM SONIA MAINO CORRUPTING THE WHOLE INDIA POPULAR MEDIA TO BUY SUCH LOW LIFE BSCUM LIKE VIR SINGHVI. IF BJP COME TO POWER THEY SHOULD PROSECUTE HIM FOR FRADULENT JOURNALSIM FOR ILLIGAL MONEY FROM THE CONGRESS.

    [Reply]

    ANIL Reply:

    I THNIK VIR SANGHVI IS A ABSOLUTELY A CONGRESS-SIDE WRITER LIKE A CONGRESS SPOKE MAN. SOME TIME HE IS A MORE THAN CONGRESS SPOKESMAN. YOU SHOULD NEED TO FARE AND NEUTRAL. NOT THIS TYPE OF WRITING . THIS IS NOT A ACTIVE JOURNALISM. WHEN YOUR TV DEBATING YOU ALSO ATTACKING AGAINST BJP MAN LIKE A CONGRESS SPOKESMAN.I THINK YOU SHOULD BEHAVE LIKE NUTRAL PERSON.
    THANKS

    [Reply]

    Prashant Saxena Reply:

    Hosting a blog is like renting a billboard, the owner of the billboard isn’t responsible for the content of the advertisement. You can make google divulge the identity of the person who put up the blog, or his IP address if he used a made op indentity, like do you think psaxe@hotmail is my real email??

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vir Sanghvi, dont turn india into an islamic theocratic state. Because it is annonymous , so legally it is not the same as defamation from an identifiable source. It is as if I picked up a paper on the road with lurid details of your sex life. This can’t be defamation as it has no particular source , so doesn’t carry the any weight, like in court your words against mine doesn’t carry weight unless it is backed up by evidence.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Just to add to what i said above, so it needs both source and the incriminating material. Any one on its own is not strong enough to mount a challenge.

    [Reply]

    Rahul Reply:

    yeah, and what if someone gets a thousand pamphlets printed calling you all sorts of names, and then distributes it in your office, locality, your children’s schools, your spouses in-laws locality, would you still say it does not have a signatory so its anonymous and therefore it should let be, and the printers contact details at the bottom of the flyer should be ignored, after all what does he have to do with it?

    shan Reply:

    @Rahul, that will be known as propaganda, and would not bother me because people with little sense will know that because the source is hiding means his case is not strong. To take your argument , then there should be no wikileaks.

    Ravi (USA) Reply:

    this Sanghvi is not only a spokesperson for congress but for terrorists as well he has all the sympathy for muslim terrorists in kashmir. he advises india to separate kashmir from india and give it to muslims as if his mother had inherited it by marrying the king of kashmir.
    this man did not think about those kashmir hindus who lived there for generations and who have laid lives for the sake of kashmir and were forced by Vir Sanghvi’s muslim fathers and brothers in kashmir to leave their motherland !
    He has all the sympathy for muslims terrorists and congress, the bigger traitor.
    if he would have said all this shit in Pakistan or Afghanistan, he would have been stoned to death
    by now.
    i wish i could trade his family for kashmir with muslim terrorists so that he sees his mischiefs.
    i did not come her to read his article because i know he is biased and prejudiced idiot !
    So, boycott this bigot and bipolar.!

    [Reply]

    Vineet Reply:

    In fact Vir is one of those very few who has defended a strong and assertive India. you are probably pulling somethign totally out of context. Please read akll his articles.

    Vineet Reply:

    It seems all the internet hindus are supporters of BJP and rabid haters of Vir :) I dunno why in fact I thought in majority of the times Vir was quite right of the center with regards to Hinduism (not hindutva) and policy towards fundamentalist Islam or Pakistan. He hates Modi and is inclined towards Congress, but I guess thats because there is no other choice. Hell even I had to vote for congress this time since the other alternative was total chaos with the lame BJP and the corrupt regional parties ruining the entire country. Vir keep writing maan. All power to you. If people dont agree they will click somewhere else. aage badho :)

    Sanjiv Reply:

    @ vineet: internet hindu?? what is that?? i also blast vir sometimes on his blog…and am a hindu….trust me it’s not because I am a hindu…and hell now you will start calling me a internet hindu….you just defamed and abused me….but since you are a congressii…you must be democratic..right??? and by no chance can you be wrong???!!!! right??

    it’s hindus…meaning bjp..meaning fascist..meaning…loonies…who are always wrong..is that right??

    Ankit Reply:

    This comment from Mr. Vineet is dripping with the soft bigorty that characterizes the self-styled seculars of our country. You cannot criticize anyone who is from the congress party or is sympathetic to them. If you do, you will be abused as “rabid”, “loony”, “radical” and several such cuss words. What a pathetic propaganda!

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    These are the results achieved after implementing our Six Sigma tested and certified Secularism.

    Can anyone question that?

    Vineet Reply:

    arre bhai .. the comments against vir are much more rabid then whatever I said .. I am not a HT staffer and if you do want to categorize me I am a indifferent hindu like standing upto hindu guys like – rajeev has wisely categorized likes of us .. rajeev bhai u shud spend more time battling the likes of that jerk pakistanis on this blog

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    Thank you for confirming, an evangelist amongst us ordained to cleanse the society of it biggest scourge.

    Go to this blog “Take the battle into the enemy’s camp” which is also by Vir Sanghvi and you will find only 2 comments why?

    It pays to provoke. It is all about money and self preservation.

  • Hemant

    what about the right to criminally indict media persons for false/careless news as witnessed on 26-11 resulting in killing on security forces or civilians? you don’t have the courage to face questions and argue if someone challenges your lopsided views supporting CONgress..and as always you disguise the real intent behind fake/hypothetical situation.

    [Reply]

    Name Reply:

    No pretention. You have spoken everything……. You blog your article on HT. And got some name. It is easy that Kongrace throws you out when needed. You UNDERstand media. I have gathered about 1000. And each one of them would hanve gathered thousands. Keep on fighting with Times of India. You and your reporters gain hatred. Just have a look at them……………………………………………. if they stay abroad. Google and HT? IndianPM and My Pro-Congress-Laptop. Nothing works. Have seen poverty and wastage of good-grain. Go inside your mother and learn again. You are a spoilt brat.

    [Reply]

  • dehydratedpaani

    The internet is the last place on this planet where we can speak freely. Bring in Big Brother laws like defamation and there goes the last platform we have to express ourselves freely. Unfortunately this will happen sooner or later.

    Defamation is a perspective issue. If i speak the truth and you dont like it, and you are allowed to tag it as defamation, then how will one fight against injustice?

    [Reply]

    Arvind Chaudhary Reply:

    You forgot what you and your Judicial system is doing to common man.

    What about the Triveni Infrastructure case No 1641/2009 that you represented in Delhi high court in favour of the cheat builder? Was your government or your judiciary able to give justice to common people?

    And this is not a lone case, thousands of unsuspecting people are getting cheated by builders even today. Crorers of corrupt and cheated money is exchanging hands in this corrupt system.

    Why hasn’t your congress government brought the real estate regulation bill?

    Can you do something there? Yes, you can; but will you do it? Nope, not at all. You are not the kind of person you are projecting here.

    Your comments have come from the desire to control every medium so that you can harass anyone you like.

    -Arvind

    [Reply]

  • Dr.G.Srinivasan

    Any scientific discovery or invention has both the sides of being used or misused. Now the thing depends on whehter you are a democracy a mature one or a democracy which itself needs reforms.The general feeling among Indians is that we do live in a democracy.We do not and if we take the criticism and try to improve we have done something and if we have not we have not done anything. There are lots of things which are misused in India because the law makers are not only not strong there are very few people who can help in legislation.It is a combination of these facts.Naturally the lawbreaker first breaks the law and gets away and then the lawmakers wake up and bolt the stable after the horses run away!!!!! This has happened many a times in India.The major thing that helps is a the judiciary which is saddled with a huge backlog so much so it can’t breath and it will not allow the rest of the country to breath.The judicial reforms are a must and probably the time for that is over.

    [Reply]

  • Web Friend

    Fantastic piece! Agree with you wholeheartedly Vir.

    [Reply]

  • Atul

    I am frankly a little surprised by your article – you sound more like a neo-con than a liberal. You should know that in your business credibility and reputations are most important. Anonymous or not, any blogger who plays with the facts will not last long in the business. Please don’t hide behind the cloak of ‘morality’ – censorship of any type is a slippery slope.

    [Reply]

  • Abdul Majid Zargar

    The comments & responses were on expected lines till arrival of Mr. Shan on the scene.He has dragged Islam in the discussion which is totally unrelated to present topic. I call such people as “Matric Pass Taliban”.

    [Reply]

    Ashok Reply:

    Now this hypocrite wants to bring sanction against those who write against him on internet. He wants to write any garbage against anybody he chooses( mostly BJP) under the umbrella of HT and NDTV but has difficulty facing his own criticism. This is a typical psuedo-neoliberal congress poodle who feels hurt because because there are people who can see his duplicity and expose it on internet. Long live internet!

    [Reply]

    Ahmad Reply:

    Mr Sanghvi himself has bee misusing the media to defame opposition parties mainly BJP. All patriotic Indians and politically aware Indians know that he has been writing one-sided articles and misleading the readers. And now he does not want any critique of his biased and misleading writing. he is masquerading as a journalist when he probably comes across as more like the ruling party Congress spokesman. If the country has to progress further, the last thing we want is an attempt to control free speech and print misleading articles only in favor the the ruling party.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Abdul majid zargar, this is to cofuse you a little bit.
    Rajeev Reply:

    July 26th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Shan,
    Sorry for butting in..but are you a muslim or related to some muslims?
    I apologise in advance if this question offends you.
    Now I could have written hindu theocratic state, but there isn’t any. there used to be , Nepal , but it is no longer so certainly if you have maoist in govt. But apologise to have left out North korea , then again North korea will allow criticism of all sorts sans the dear leader and the dear country. Certainly you can say anything about religion. Guys like you are the reason why islamic countries remain laggard. It’s like a psychiatric patient, the patient keeps denying and will not confront either the obsessions or phobias. The only way you can cure him is get him to confront his fear , in this case islam to confront its demons. But islam was a pretty normal thing , without any demons in its “golden age”, to the extent a academic work by a turkish scholar made wide circulation about the SEX LIFE OF PROPHET”Another revelation from your coreligionist which attest my views.

    syed says:
    June 19, 2010 at 8:07 pm
    @all

    Digressing a little…….I do not know how much of you know about the Islamic golden age from the 8 to the 13 century. Here I am pasting from Wikipedia…..
    “Muslim world became a major intellectual centre for science, philosophy, medicine and education….Many medieval Muslim thinkers pursued humanistic, rational and scientific discourses in their search for knowledge, meaning and values. A wide range of Islamic writings on love, poetry, history and philosophical theology show that medieval Islamic thought was open to the humanistic ideas of individualism, occasional secularism, skepticism and liberalism.
    Religious freedom, though society was still controlled under Islamic values, helped create cross-cultural networks by attracting Muslim, Christian and Jewish intellectuals and thereby helped spawn the greatest period of philosophical creativity in the Middle Ages from the 8th to 13th centuries. Another reason the Islamic world flourished during this period was an early emphasis on freedom of speech, as summarized by al-Hashimi (a cousin of Caliph al-Ma’mun) in the following letter to one of the religious opponents he was attempting to convert through reason. …”Bring forward all the arguments you wish and say whatever you please and speak your mind freely

    [Reply]

    Vineet Reply:

    I absolutely agree with you. this shan guy is a jerk. He twists in some crazy taliban interpretations into anything and then it is free for all for the jerks on both sides

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Your contribution is just abuses. This proves that who are the real trolls.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Vineet , these are few comments directed at me
    James T Cassidy says:
    July 23, 2010 at 6:14 am
    Dear Shan

    You are mesmerizingly brilliant, a veritable treasure of knowledge, on issues past and present and your linguistic quiver has arrows to meet all debatory challenges, with verifiable sources, and deliver your responses with absolute precision, be it sarcastic, humorous, incisive or downright abrasive. It is not possible for me to meet you in person, but I wish I could.
    Now let me explain to a plonker like you why the islamic angle is important.
    All the problem that bedevils the muslims today can be attributed to one thing LACK OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN ISLAMIC MATTERS. So when we are discussing censorship, defamation(a ploy used with violent expression, in every islamic country) like the drawing of cartoons etc, . If we were discussing pali, i dont think there would be any need to drag islam.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @Abdul majid zargar, eyes wide shut, tamaso ma jyotirgomayo(mother lead them form darkness to light. Now read on
    In Mymensing, from March until November ‘71, the head Imam of the big Mosque has dumped many into the well after slaughtering them in his own hand . It was in December again when the city people brought out countless corps from the well in order to find their nearest ones. My relatives went out to search for those who left for the war, or vanished without for good. Pakistani soldiers looted our properties, burnt our house before they left, took my father away and bashed him with boots and bayonets, shot two of my uncles and left their dead bodies on the road, plucked my brother’s right eye out. In December two out of my three uncles, left for the liberation war, have returned. Sixteen days later, from the Pakistani camp, returned home my 21 year old aunt . Some of the neighbors, who fought for liberation and returned home, have lost their hands, some their legs. Still December is the month when the relatives of the cripple war victims became overwhelmed with joy for their homecoming.

    But nobody expected my poor aunt returns home. They all would have been relieved if she did not. Ever since, I always proudly referred to my father, brother and uncles. I was proud of our losses. But I never mention my aunt. Today stepping out of all damn inhibitions, I am proudly saying that: in the darkroom of the military camp ten brutish lechers (Pakistani soldiers) have incessantly raped my aunt for 16 days.

    Our society did not pride on my aunt. In newspapers and magazines, in conferences, meetings and seminars the big shots went loud about raped women. Their pompous title “War heroines” for the victim women of war is nothing but a farce in the name of liberalism.

    Although everybody accepted the ravage, the torture by boots and bayonets, even dreadful deaths unleashed by the war-they did not accept the hapless accident: rape.

    In December, when the political leaders were shouting outside for the honor of the raped mothers and sisters, then in December, the month of our victory, as the last resort to keep her honor: my aunt hanged herself on the wooden beam of their house.

    Taslima Nasreen: Nirbachita Columns (p25-26)

    [Reply]

    pali Reply:

    and who defines foul….mr moral scince teacher??/
    whre were u when vir uses foul language against bjp and modi veryday….

    or to u calling someone a mss murder in shria court of agent media is fine???

    it is amzing peole r concrened about language in a country whre 300 million peole r below th overty line and swiss banks assets india is # 1….

    these moralizing hindus like sanjiv are hypocrites…..

    i could care less about foul language..but i can feel hunger and disease of the poor and am apalled by peole supporting congress loot of a poor country for 60 yrs and its brazeninmg out the price rise issue…
    if u r so sensitive mr sanjiv..then how come u tolerate so much poverty and corruption…..
    obviosuly u rinsensitive hypocrite …

    do u know what hunger and disease r…..and if u r congress supporter..u hve some nerve to moralize about foul language…

    they called modi dawood recently …..

    [Reply]

  • shaitansanjay

    Excellent article as always….Vir u r a true nationalist hero! Keep it up.

    [Reply]

  • dhanki

    welcome to those who feel hurt over defamation. some years ago your newspaper, chandigarh, published a number of baseless news items about me. much of it was out of pique of the local reporter who covers an inconsequential beat and reports about inconsequential people. the only problem was that if you are part of that inconsequential group then that handful of people who actually read that newsitem matter to you and it felt extremely bad to be called a thief and without professional morals when my entire professional standing was based on being morally correct.

    talking to your editor evoked a stupid response: provide evidence to the contrary. But that was precisely the point: there was no evidence either to prove the charges being made. How could contrary evidence be produced for something that did not exist?

    an investigation of my own indicated that the reporter was fronting for someone who was trying to harm someone else through your esteemed paper and i was just one of the inconsequential bystanders whose name was being dragged in the mud. after i had been maligned enough an old student could not bear it any more. he now was a senior policeman. so he met the reporter and asked him to behave, or else…. A few days later reporter ji arrived at my door saying: sirji galti ho gayee maaf kar do.

    [Reply]

  • Param Vir

    The reason is that you have a big brand name ” Hindustan Times” to spread your pro-congress messages. Over decades, the media, termed as fourth estate, has been seen to provide un-biased reporting. But what is changing here is that you are using a brand name to promote the Gandhi/Nehru family image and at the same time trying to everything to defame who are oppose to the family. Would you disclose the amount of money/benefit you are getting from Congress.

    [Reply]

  • HypocriteBuster

    Sanghvi,
    You are a hypocrite, You want the media to unilaterally have the right to slander
    patriots like Narendra Modi and take away the one tool that people have because
    I’m sure , it has woken you up to the fact that a majority of people dont agree with your
    fantasies.
    So I wouldn’t be concerned even if the supreme court does rule against google
    the distributed nature of the internet will allow the data to persist at different hosts.
    The identity of the user can be encrypted and Now there is Wikileaks if you havent noticed.
    So make all the noise you want. The internet is freedom and no legislation can make it go away.
    Ouch that hurt didn’t it.
    Sincerely
    HypocriteBuster

    [Reply]

    Rahul Reply:

    Patriots my arse, we can do without scum like him.

    [Reply]

  • shyam

    Consider an analogy:

    A person X goes to the balcony of his house and starts shouting defamatory sentences against another person Y. Can we hold DDA, the authority that has provided the house to X, as also responsible for defamation?

    The person Y can go to the complaints department — the police or the court — and make a complaint and proceed to fight a case against X.

    Similarly, I feel, what Vir has observed in case of Google is correct. Google like the DDA is providing a huge platform and cannot monitor each and every blog. However, if someone finds any particular blog, irresponsible, Google should have a mechanism to accept complaints, look into complaints and be able to remove the blog after doing some verification. Also maybe post a counter-opinion by the people not agreeing to the original post. In addition, it should be able to provide all the details like the IP Address, recorded email address etc to the person filing the complaint, so that the complainant can use these details to pass on to Police who can then find out the accused person and take him to court. These days IT forensics is very capable and the people using the internet are not that anonymous as they might think they are.

    [Reply]

  • JC Moola

    Some of the defamation examples given by Vir Sanghvi are infact a personal collection of true tributes showered on him. Persons like Vir Sanghwi should be hanged for defamation of values, ethics, tradition, patriotism.

    [Reply]

    renjith kalarikkal Reply:

    If yaar your name was defmaed by one of esteemed newspaper, why didnt you case criminal charges against the same media; also what was that comments which make you de fame.

    [Reply]

  • renjith kalarikkal

    Mr SANGHVI. the content in your coloum and counterpoints etc gave a good pat on the shoulders of our rulling party UPA.. and in the last two editorials you have written against the opposition party BJP. Eventhough some points were valuble, you must also wrote against the Congress too. or you think that UPA is crystel clear and have no corrupted politicians.
    Here you will be critizised-as you focus anti congress parties worst faces. some hve that potensials but by that u are not becoming a good journalist

    [Reply]

  • Arvind Chaudhary

    good one…

    [Reply]

    Naras Reply:

    “Katrina Kaif in porn muddle” says the “most-viewed” item. Target audience eagerly clicks on it to find out that some one else is pretending to be a naked Katrina.

    This of course is not defamation. HT can’t be sued. Its worse than that, a gutter-level insinuation only to lure the target audience. Those who don’t see the detail, or merely glance at the item headline will get a lurid impression.

    Can you spell hypocrisy? Good.

    [Reply]

    Ankit Reply:

    I totally agree with the person who wrote about Vir Sanghvi wagging his tail in front of Madam Gandhi in the HT summit a couple of years ago. In fact, if you see the videos when Modi is taking them on there is one person who complains that “Vir Sanghvi said you cannot ask questions to Mrs Gandhi if you are not famous”. The person made this complaint in Hindi, I am just rephrasing it.

    The sad part is that even if we the people are aware of this media-government nexus to screw us, there is scarce little that we can do. They have a symbiotic relationship that is formidable. Government of the day promotes its propaganda in the media and gives rich rewards to pliant journalists and publishers. These media men and women do the bidding for the government and fool the common people by posing as unbiased and fair journalists. Common people do not have enough time or inclination to observe these patterns and therefore fall for the propaganda in the media.

    Quite a sad state of affairs!

    [Reply]

    Ganesh S Reply:

    Ankit,

    Mr Vir Sanghvi may be the worst journalist this planet has ever known.Mr Vir Sanghvi may be the most brazen stooge of Congress as alleged.Mr Vir Sanghvi may the modern day reincarnation of Goebbels.But does that give anyone the right to openly ABUSE him,threaten him with consequences or dare him to come out in open as is being done by some in these columns ?

    What is the worst crime Mr Sanghvi is doing ? He is holding brief,on some issues,for one of the parties in India that hold legitimate power for five years.This IS the fact which rattles some.Let me point out umpteen instances of Mr Sanghvi criticizing Congress.

    The problem lies with these unseen,unknown writers and their political masters who just cannot stand any other view point.

    Please criticize Mr Sanghvi if you must.Please say anything to him within the confines of civil discourse.But abusing him mindlessly is not going to lead you or your party anywhere.

    There are those silent millions who READ these columns.They will never reply like me.They will simply go and do the needful in the next elections.

    Congress may not be the party for this country.But we dont need the other party too whose cowardly followers are scared of debate,dialogue and whose President itself has set new standards in attacking opponents in the worst possible manner.What a lovely display of Bharatiya Sanskriti !!!!

    Now before all you lumpen writers gang up and attack my blood relatives,let me tell you am alone.single and yes,as a citizen of India I will have the last laugh and show you the power of the silent majority.

    Mr Sanghvi,I hold no brief for you.But please continue to air your views.Silent majority is with you.We may or may not agree with you always but as someone said – the essence of democracy is – I dont like what you said but i will go to the other end of the world to defend your right to say it.

    People have to shed their knickers and wear trousers and GROW UP to be able to understand such nuances of democracy.

    Parijat Luthra Reply:

    I think the whole problem lies with the LATE JUDICIARY, what’s the point of defamation cases when they would be decided in 20 years,

    IF only we could hasten the judiciary somehow, we could have all these discussion in court legally and in time.

    “SO THE RIGHT TO SUE SOMEONE IN THE FIRST WORLD IS INFACT POWER GIVEN TO ORDINARY CITIZENS”

    Mr vir the best way you can help this country is working on a faster judiciary. then only any report or discussion abt legal suits matter.

    In india we have the law but its VERY VERY SLOW.

    http://www.fastjusticeindia.org

    ishwar Reply:

    Ganesh,

    You say: “He is holding brief,on some issues,for one of the parties in India that hold legitimate power for five years”.

    We have no problems with that. While airing his opinions, he must declare that he is writing/speaking on behalf of a particular party. We would read/listen to his opinion based on that. The problem begins when you pose as a neutral and then talk as the spokesman of a political party.

    BTW, who decides what is the silent majority?

    Ganesh S Reply:

    I agree with you.I like your honesty.At least you are open to say – ” WE have no problems with that .Hope to be told clearly who are these WE ? From the language you use – so dignified and so proper and hence so acceptable,you are a different WE – different from those WE s who rain visceral blows on Mr Sanghvi the moment he even obliquely says anything in favour of ruling party.By the way,why should he declare anything ? He has all the right to judge parties on issues.If you read his blogs,there are many where he has taken Congress to task.At that time,the WEs keep eloquantly silent.

    My dear friend,there is no black or white in Indian politics.They are all shades of grey.Congress is what it is – a motley crowd of self seekers,power mongers and individuals who are politicians to the core.With Congress,you get what you see.

    It is the BJP which postures as a PARTY WITH A DIFFERENCE and then one gets to know it is nothing but a different replica when it is in power.The problem lies with the political system we have,not with the parties.

    Attacking Mr Sanghvi is not going to solve anything.

    Let us change the system.

    ANIL Reply:

    Mr.Ganesh

    You asking who are We, i think I am also include that WE. Mr.Sangvi is a 100% congress spokesman. Manish tiwari,Abhishek Singhwi and Mr. Sangvi also.

    Ankit Reply:

    Ganesh,

    You are making unsubstantiated allegations against me, which amounts to witch hunt. Firstly, since you are talking about abuse, please point out one in my comment.

    I have read Sanghvi for a decade now. Invariably, his columns read like a recital of Congress’s talking points. I distinctly remember that when asked a question on his website about Congress’s stance on Sajjan Kumar and Tytler, he said that there is no problem in Congress giving tickets to these guys since they have been cleared by CBI. What a faith in CBI this person has!

    Anyway, there are umpteen instances like that and I do not have the time to list all of them here. The simple point is this: Sanghvi and many of his colleagues act as propagandists of the Congress party while masquerading as journalists. They may be legally okay, but this is morally bankrupt. I strongly think that people deserve to know this reality so that they can separate propaganda from facts.

  • B.V.SHENOY

    “If I defame you in print or on TV, there is somebody who is in a position to stop me either before the defamation reaches a wider audience or even (in the case of TV) during the programme itself. ”

    This is a tall claim not supported by reality. Some days ago, Mani Shankar Aiyer abused Advani on CNN-IBN. Short of calling Advani a mother.f…..r, he used all the abusive words. When the BJP spokesperson objected to it, she politely asked Aiyer not to get personal. The same night, Aiyer was on NDTV too, hurling more offensive abuse at Advani personally, but dspite protests from the BJP person, the anchor merely amiled and allowed Aiyer to continue his tirade.

    But, I believe this article is all about the hurt Internet Hindus have caused writers like Vir Sanghvi, who take it as their god given right to abuse Hindus any which way, and the Hindu way of life, ridiculing it as HIndutva. And I also believe the hurt has begun to pain and has found its mark.

    [Reply]

  • B.V.SHENOY

    Dear Sanghvi,

    what have I written above that needs moderation?

    [Reply]

  • Amit Purohit

    Now this cheap columnist of degrading levels of HT journalism comes up with an article to pour out the sadness in him, which he mut have read in HT comments section.
    This man has written many insulting words for BJP, RSS and VHP, all organisations of premier nationalistic Indian values and staunch nationalists.He has possibly taken favours, advantages from ruling party of today to blemish some political leaders with ranked prejudice and biasedness.
    He must first tell what line he is following by insulting first and that too un endingly and irritating many readers. Isnt it insult of persons who wish to read HT but instead thas to go through his corrupt attitude of writing columns,and in t urn if he gets some good handy comments he develops insomenia to write another column to cover up for his sins.
    THis man must be terminated from HT services, as he has devalued the paper for long.

    [Reply]

  • Ats

    The basic issue which needs to be addressed is the difference between “reporting” and “opinion making”, e.g. there is no clarity in the role of a reporter/opinion maker/anchor leading to defamation, humilaition, media trial etc etc. Journalists powerful thesedays and heavyily politicized must set the guidelines, which is unlikely. A special case in this context that comes up is chandan basu. Vir is saint before him

    [Reply]

  • Ritu

    Looks like people are really unhappy with Vir Sanghvi.

    [Reply]

    Vineet Reply:

    yaaa u can say that again ..

    [Reply]

  • Sanjiv

    Sir how do you take to court all the media guys who publish day in and day out – motivated news…till now people like you had been happy publishing a news article and then not worrying about any negative feedback…you could through away all the letters coming to you in the dustbin….unfortunately now since a great democratic medium i.e. internet is available to people to scream back at pretenders – explicetives included…people are crying foul…

    vir ji like a man you will have to stand upto criticism…

    or else declare yourself a congress sympathizer…and people i guess will stop hurling abuse at you..likethe case with Chandan Mitra or Swapandasgupta…nobody abuses them…they never pretend to be neutral….they are BJP guys…period…

    [Reply]

  • http://ioretradingindia.blogspot.com Anil Kohli

    Mr. Sanghvi. Is unnerved, the overwhelming negative response that he receives on most occasions. This blog is the outcome of that, he wants retributions, however cannot term most negative comments as defamatory.

    There are two aspects to this blog.

    1. The essence or the soul. The deep seated part!

    2. The printed word or the body. The superficial part!

    It would be convenient to focus on the printed part express myself and move on, but that would not really do justice to what the author is attempting to say. So let us begin by addressing the first part, the essence and soul.

    Mr. Sanghvi is feeling vulnerable and is unable to state so in clear terms. The monopoly of taking potshots at others over a long period of time emboldened him, he graduated to ambushes, and later to mounting all out attacks on anyone that he wished, or as commissioned by the political paymaster. A fair number of journalists made common cause and banded together into groups as Mercenaries. Their services were available to a select group willing to pay the demanded price. All this was being done from a very secure and impregnable fortress. The targeted individual was unable to strike back ; protest letter s to the Editor were summarily dismissed for want of evidence or on the basis of Freedom of Speech and Expression and at times as Journalistic creative composition. Appearance on Electronic media utterance and disparaging remarks made on other went unchallenged due to common reasons.

    Spread of net and advent of Blogs now enable the aggrieved party to rebut often level counter allegations. Blogging has enabled the independent objective observer to register his protest! The game plan is all too apparent, he has jumped into the fray to correct the imbalance which individuals like Vir Sanghvi enjoyed previously.

    Moderators were introduced on the web sites and Blogs ostensibly to filter offensive and objectionable post, the real purpose was to control contrarian views. Initially the positive posts were extensively used as testimonials; which was good for the business, over a period of time negative reactions from the public increased manifold, though successfully kept at bay on his web site or his Blog; has failed to instill that sense of security and immunity which was originally there. When the negative reactions are higher the payments will not be made since the desired results have not been achieved. The paymasters do not tolerate failures and this would lead to redundancy.

    We thought we were up against a man who had it in him to take as good as he gave, unfortunately the turning of the tide has made him to scream in a very loud voice Defamation, Redressal and demands retribution.

    Now incase these comments do not appear on this blog I am free to publish this on any site which offer free blog services. The reach of net + blog should not be subject to censorship.

    [Reply]

    Vineet Reply:

    My God are you a shrink

    [Reply]

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    Could be possible,

    Is the premise wrong, is it not possible if you read between the lines, when the overwhelming response is negative, an individual cannot counter each and every post so the best route to prevent damage is to seek a legal recourse, threat of legal action can prevent negative comments when supported by the law of the land.

    [Reply]

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    Vineet,

    Go to this blog “Take the battle into the enemy’s camp” which is also by Vir Sanghvi and you will find only 2 comments why?

    Please do not wish to think independently or objectively they want to engage in verbal duel so that they can hit back at the individual for his words, that is not how one has to present ones views. The basis has be logical and capable of drawing the other party out of their comfort zone.

    You can read my comments for this blog the link is http://ioretradingindia.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    Typo error replace “Please” with “People”

    [Reply]

  • Siddharth

    Vir Sanghvi is barking the wrong tree. He should have worried himself about child pornography and ways to stop a child being assaulted. These child killers where ever they are must be hunted and destroyed. It is a shame on human race.
    Calling Laloo a rogue is not defamation whether direct on the internet. Rogues have to be called rogues.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.hindustantimes.com Sujata Anandan

    Vir, Apart from the case you have written about (I think it may be the second one), the Bombay High Court has already ruled against Google in the case of Gurbir Singh vs Media Mamu, which used to be an anonymous media blog which said the most awful things abt Gurbir, including many other journalists in Bombay. Google India was afraid Gurbir would sue them for millions but he wanted only an apology from Media Mamu which had to then withdraw and close its blog to avoid liability.
    Justice Shahrukh Kathawala ruled that no one can be allowed to defame another person, no matter what the medium and under what circumstances. They get away with it because most of us don’t bother but there is already a precedent now and these nasty abusers must beware

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    Is that a threat?

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    So the Lady Reporter is agrieved and hurt. She wants one -way traffic otherwise it is defamation . These are precisely the double standards and hypocricy which the Lady Reporter and her likes practice.

    [Reply]

    FAIZAN Reply:

    I think the lady was justifying the issue with her reference to that particular case. Can anyone who’s using the word “hypocrisy” (even the spelling is not correct), justify his statement with actual meaning of the word???

    [Reply]

    Praveen Saxena Reply:

    Faizan Miyan

    We do not expect u to be critical of the views of the Lady Reporter because her animosity towards the BJP is well known. Her servitude towards the Congress Party and the Nehru/Gandhi family in particular is also evident in her posts. It is quite obvious that u shall be supportive of her.

    [Reply]

  • faizan

    i suppose bjp pays some meagre amount to the guys like shan, jimmy, etc etc. and also the fake names that’s why they bring out all their frustration in writing these non-sense replies, i have my sympathies with u, but everyone knows for what do u reply these blogs. So c’on guys do something meaning full.

    [Reply]

    ANIL Reply:

    THAT MEANS , ANY BODY AGAINST ALL ARE BJP. SO ANYBODY SUPPORTERS CAN CONGRESS.WHAT LOGIC MR. FAIZAN OK. FINALLY YOU ARE A FAIZAN

    [Reply]

    FAIZAN Reply:

    AND U PROVED UR ANIL!!. U GOT TO WORK ON UR LANGUAGE SKILLS MR. ANIL B4 GETTING INTO THIS JOB.

    [Reply]

    Honey Reply:

    In our normal routine life we never find an individual always right or someone always wrong. But Vir. always take congress in the right perspective and the BJPians in wrong. This is the problem.

    payal Reply:

    faizan..language is not the same as typing mistakes in a hurry to reply to hopeless brainless brainwashed from birth opeole like u..

    anyway the chinese dont know english but a billion of them r smarter than 7th century fanatic hindu ahters like u..now go and protests against usa and uk for iraq qar…

    and usa and uk speak good english it is their language..which is ur only criterai..what about brains like math ,logic etc..

    faizan Reply:

    you are surely paid for this because i can’t expect any indian holding so much of grudge against fellow Indians (we are not made to be like this), just because they don’t follow hinduism. Simply pathetic and I feel sorry for you (whatever be your name coz you change it everytime)
    !!!!

    daspayal Reply:

    hey faizan u have some nerve to talk about hate based on ahrmless internet frank post…
    u cant answer and u r using terms like internet hindus and hatred ..

    here is hatred by peole like u and not harmless words but actual action…dividing india in 1947 creating amillion dferaths,,,cleansing hindus from pak,bdesha nd now kashmir..starting communal riots over processions on publ;ic roads ..

    killing hundreds of thousands in post 1947 india….

    killing hindus over saddam husain,bush visit etc…also khilafat in 1921 in turkey…

    killing innocents in terror attack all over the worlds in thossands…
    with india sa usual at the top..

    and u talk of hate and lecture others with elmedia on ur side…

    stand upside down and may be that will help if ur mullah lets go of ur brain…

    but aslong as u belong to brainwahed from birth species based on 7th century beliefs of ahte against non-believrs dont talk and expose ur level of depravity bey lectruring about hate based on harmless post…

    only brainless brainwashed can post such nonsense….as if that bit about spelling and language was not shameful enough..

    but u r forgive…go and prepare for heaven

    faizan Reply:

    @ payal/daspayal

    as anyone going through the posts here can observe “brainless and brainwashed” are the terms u use here for secular and democratic individuals so in that case it doesn’t bother me or anyone secular like me at all.

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @ payal/daspayal

    What a shame it is to have people like you in our country!

    ‘ You say : ‘ahrmless internet frank post…’

    Ok, since we are being and frank then let me harmlessly point out what a bigot you are and what a blot on the name of Hinduism your thoughts are. You are a text book example of an ‘Internet Hindu’ who raves and rants non stop because of his/her ‘depravity’ and belief in long term right wing propaganda…. the examples of which you have given so eloquently!

    You say: “dividing india in 1947 creating amillion dferaths,,,cleansing hindus from pak,bdesha nd now kashmir..starting communal riots over processions on publ;ic roads ..”

    Pretending that killings happened on only one side is equal to burying your head under the sand. And why should an Indian muslim have to answer for the intolerance of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis?

    You say: “killing hindus over saddam husain,bush visit etc…also khilafat in 1921 in turkey…

    killing innocents in terror attack all over the worlds in thossands…
    with india sa usual at the top..”

    Killing Hindus over Saddam Hussain? Bush? Khilafat of all the things? Do you even know about the Khilafat movement? It was also a pan India movement in which millions of Hindus and Christians also participated! You are ignorant!

    You say: “stand upside down and may be that will help if ur mullah lets go of ur brain…”

    Are you mentally retarded? What does that mean? Do you stand on your head when you are thinking?

    You say: “expose ur level of depravity bey lectruring about hate based on harmless post…”

    Hypocrisy! You keep repeating about harmless posts but your reaction turns ugly when others write something you donot agree with!

    I hope you are fake and not HINDU because you are a blot on my religion which does not make me a idiotic monster like you!

    Ankit Reply:

    Faizan, since you were taking a swipe at someone for not getting the spelling right, it is amusing to see that you spell meaningful as “meaning full”. Jinke ghar shishe ke hon……..

    [Reply]

  • http://mywriterkeeda.wordpress.com Ishmart Alec

    The authors legal position is wrong as well. As per law, there are safe harbor provisions for internet intermediaries (like Google or Blogger) who act as passive carriers of information (akin to the immunity that newspapers and media enjoys). If they show that they acted upon information of defamation, they cannot be held liable. Its another debate on whether safe harbor provisions are that effective for internet intermediaries.

    [Reply]

    daspayal Reply:

    ht please publish for fairplay,
    hey aditya,
    do u own hinduism..i say it is peole like u who r responsible for plight of hindus in pakistan and kashmir and bdesh…

    is this ur idea of hinduism letting hindus die and going to sleep and screaming when u can join the many muslims of the wordlwide ummah in defending them…are u a hindu at all??ur positions will receive applause from all the mullahs in the world ..great 7th century company man…call urself ahmed buddy..

    if ur name is real and ur idea of hinduism is ******** your own and defending the killings of hindus in moplah in 1921 , which is what i was talknig about where tens of thousnads of hindus werere killed..

    an u r sayiong that is fine because khilafat was a national movement…idiot khilafat sowed the seeds of the parition like u pseudos are experts at doing..like in kashmir which is islamic…today do hinus have no rightys there u luny..who is responsible?? if not muslims u braindead..

    and pray why shuld muslim s not be held responsible for pakistn -bdesh just like kashmir?? was nt pakistan their idea
    with 96 % support and u defend the inexplicable staying behind after that???
    all the muslim societies r known to do this…and u call it love of hindus… an dlecture others about hate when u dont even know that killing and cleansing is hate and this hate is a belief in the religion…

    if u r a hindu ,i refuse to be one,hinduism shuld not create traitors like u, but fortunately there r hindus who r not traitors and r patriots..like u

    ur lunacy involves dfending muslim killers and hindu killings…wow and u r a hindu and this is ur copyright defeinition of hinduism that u own..

    and i have no probblem with ur post..i made that clear..words dont affect anyone…u can rant as s much as u want….b y deciding on what is shame and what is a bigot and wow even deciding who is a hindu..the guy who lets his wife to sleep with muslims and conceive pseudo traitors like u eh??
    to gang up with muslim killers and dfend hindu kilings
    by diverting khilafat as a national movement..do u even know about moplah u traitor..

    so why dont u go and tyalk to the kashmiri hindu refugees in delhi when ur media hides it..and is worried about violent muslims in kashmir…being killed..and sorabuddin chargeshheter with ak 47s

    now go and dfend the killings of the jawans in kashmir….this is hinduism acopring to this loony called aditya with muslim blood inside him…no wonder he is in full agreement with the jihadi.s

    [Reply]

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @daspayal,

    LOL! Begging HT to publish you post because you know it has grounds to be deleted?? LOL! You are a text book example of a raving internet troll.

    Abused me…. check
    Abused my parents… check
    Questioned my paternity…. check
    questioned my patriotism….. check
    called me a traitor…. check
    distorted history… check
    questioned the patriotism of minorities…. check

    Congratulations!

    YOU SAY: do u own hinduism..i say it is peole like u who r responsible for plight of hindus in pakistan and kashmir and bdesh…

    So do you own Hinduism? When you are giving lectures to minorities about things why do you speak on behalf of all Hindus? You don’t own us! You can’t speak for us!

    YOu say: is this ur idea of hinduism letting hindus die and going to sleep and screaming when u can join the many muslims of the wordlwide ummah in defending them…are u a hindu at all??ur positions will receive applause from all the mullahs in the world ..great 7th century company man…call urself ahmed buddy..

    Show me where I have written that it is ok for hindus to die? Making things up troll?

    YOU SAY: an u r sayiong that is fine because khilafat was a national movement…idiot khilafat sowed the seeds of the parition like u pseudos are experts at doing..like in kashmir which is islamic…today do hinus have no rightys there u luny..who is responsible?? if not muslims u braindead..

    Thank you for your abuses… for your kind information…. I am Kashmiri and still spend atleast a couple of months there every year when ever work permits. I have never had a problem living there. More over… your history is wrong… I’ve done a minor in Indian history in college and the Khilafat movement was indeed a pan India movement. There were instances of British-Muslim, British-Hindu and Hindu-Muslim violence but it wasn’t a anti-hindu riot as you are projecting it to be… what is your source? Wikipedia? LOL!

    YOU SAY: and pray why shuld muslim s not be held responsible for pakistn -bdesh just like kashmir?? was nt pakistan their idea
    with 96 % support and u defend the inexplicable staying behind after that???

    How smartly you drop Indian and just make it muslims… WHY SHOULD INDIAN MUSLIMS HAVE TO ANSWER FOR PAKISTAN OR BANGLADESH? And 96% voted for Pakistan… lol… another place I read another troll write 98% and yet in all my studies there have been no such record…. some how lunatics like you find them… please do share your source [it better not be some random shady website... i mean academic source]!

    YOU SAY: if u r a hindu ,i refuse to be one

    THANK GOD!

    YOU SAY: “ur lunacy involves dfending muslim killers and hindu killings…wow and u r a hindu and this is ur copyright defeinition of hinduism that u own..”

    Show me where I have defended terrorism…

    YOU SAY: “so why dont u go and tyalk to the kashmiri hindu refugees in delhi when ur media hides it..and is worried about violent muslims in kashmir”

    Talk to myself? Sure thing… Morons like you don’t need to be worried about us… we can take care of ourselves and Kashmir without your hate and any further bloodshed! HOw funny that you mention Sorabuddin in all this… anyway… since you have it is even more funny how you lunatics ignore the murder of Kausar Bi and the witness Tulsiram…

    YOU SAY: no wonder he is in full agreement with the jihadi.s

    No I am not in full agreement with you and your jehadi kinds! Islamic lunatics on one side and hindu fanatics like you on the other side just want to tear this country apart! Not only are you dirty but also ignorant… sitting in some corner of the world in front of your computer and typing filth on a blog… grow up loser…

    P.S. I predict that you will abuse me more and rave and rant more about how I’m a traitor and blah and blah and blah… because that is all that you are capable of… I wish your kind had gone away when they had the chance during partition… jehadi!

    [Reply]

    daspayal Reply:

    before calling peole hateful u need to understand the word?? the hatred is in the book against non believers?? from 1300 yrs if u do not know words liek kafir and jaziya ??
    u would do urself afavor by not exposing ur ignorance here..

    have u called the peole who cleanse hindus hateful??? no not a word?? instead ur calling those who defend themselves against 1000 years of islamic conquest as hateful? and those who express these facts here harmlessly hateful??/ wow u r a genius man..

    by this logic peopel like u call the jawans hateful for defending themselves ?

    so hindus ahve no right to defence and that is hate for morons like u…

    and the cleansing of hindus is fine??? and dont give us that nonsense about india and pakistan…

    just drawing a line between the 2 countries in 1947 does not change mindsets of 1300 years based on a literal reigion??? so how about asking the mullahs to excise the
    hateful verses in the koran??

    but ur such a stupid hypocrite that the mosques in kashmir were blaring hate in 1990 from the speakers and u mistook that for love>>>your idea of love is being forced to flee for bloody life..

    forget abuse..taritors shuld be banished to pakistan whre they belong because at the end of the day they belong to the brotherhood..and their deciful names are part of the treason but it is their positions that count…at least muslims r honest aboput tehir beliefs…

    who is responsible for hindus being cleansed in pakistan bangladesh and now kashmir???
    these were part of india ?? right? do hindus have any rights on their ancestors land???

    so who shuld be blamed??the leaders at that time right ?? and the 96 % muslims who demanded it for their pure types?/ and yet decided to stay behind with the impure and why were a million killed when muslims stayed behind and there are lakhs of communal riots in the country since 1947???who is reponsible for this illogical partition against hindus who were clenased and muslims who have grown???

    where did the moderate muslims disappear in all these cases.lik pak,kashmir,bdesh
    .it is because of hindu majority that muslims ahve grown in india to controll its govt thru votebank which is significant…

    at the end of the day aditya peole like u are on the side of the jihadis and india’s enemies
    and the only way to explain your hatred for hindus is the genese migration theory which
    is an explanation..not abuse..get it..so stop using subjective words like abuse

    and i didnt start defining who is ahindu.. u did…so shut up when u cant take a rebutal..instead of borrowing my rebuttal as yours…

    can give it but not take it eh?? which idiot willl even start an argument with a moronish ownership of hinduism and defining who is a hindu??

    but at the end of the day..remeber the osamas and kasabs will agree with u because our jawans and brave defenders of india have to fight peole like you also who will snipe at their heels like enemy dogs….barking away about what is a hindu and the enemies of india watching in glee at the advantage they have>>.

    altaf Reply:

    thanks aditya we could not achive this without help from hindu named peole like u…

    ur help oveground is very helpful for us to grow and become critical mass….

    u r most welcome for an award ceremony in kerala in a few years…like u were in in pakistan,bdesh and kashmir
    when u attended with nandita das,mahesh bhatt ,kuldip teesta etc
    u rtruly our brother…

    NEW DELHI: A new outfit is under scanner in Kerala for its alleged anti-India ideology. The Popular Front of India (PFI) calls India its enemy and asks for ‘total Muslim empowerment’.

    Times Now has access to documents seized from activists of the controversial outfit, which prove its anti-national ideology. The documents portray the nation as its enemy and calls to work towards ‘total Muslim empowerment’.

    The documents also describe the so-called ‘freedom parade’ organised by the PFI at various centres on Independence Day, as a means to motivate and rejuvenate Muslims.

    The Popular Front of India was in the news recently after its activists chopped the hands of a college lecturer, T J Joseph, who allegedly set a question paper, which hurt Muslim sentiments.

    Meanwhile, speaking to Times Now, Kerala’s Education Minister, M A Baby said that the state government would soon be banning the Freedom Parade organised by PFI activists on every Independence Day in the light of the attack on Joseph.
    altaf

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @Daspayal,

    What ever man… since you are again starting the same thing there is not point repeating myself… keep hating if you want to…

    @altaf,

    What? I did not understand that…

    altaf Reply:

    aditya my brother

    we are making progress in kerala???like we did in kashmir,pakistana nd bdesh???

    thanks to peole like u who confuse hindus by lecturing them about hate when they try to assert and defend…

    i loved your passion for us brother….u r helping us..by trying to disarm hindus u will definitely go to allah’s heaven……seculars with hindu names are part of our strategy of intermingling for years..u shuld be proud of it….so hinduhating comes naturally to the seculars…who have a passioate love for muslims

    we r truly impressed by how they r concerend about dawwod bhai’s man sorabuddin
    and have put the kufr modi and bjp in its place…

    with peole like u i am sure modi will be hanged someday in our sharia rule in india…

    dont be ashamed of ur muslim blood…deceit against kafirs is taught in the koran….and the prize is eternal happiness in heaven…
    by our calculation 50 % of the land from afghaniistan to burma to kanya kumari is controlled by islam…may be more if you count muslim neighbourhoods..our population is increasing with our bangladeshi brothers and congress loves us because we make sure they r elected everytime with just 26 % vote and kafirs are being distracted by peole like u who r seculars but with muslim blood..testa is married to amuslim and our media in india hides it..
    so everything is in place..hope soon u will be able to name ur grandchildren with glorious pure names like altaf imran etc…
    inshaallah…salam alekum brother aditya….
    i was delighted by kerala news…..peole like u have been ruling it for 60 years…..and r proxy for us…

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @altaf,

    Hahaha… you trolls are getting more imaginative… if you want to ramble on about the ‘end of the world by Muslim conquest’ then go on loser… once you are done with muslims you’ll go after Christians… because thats what you are… fanatics… local jehadis! :-D

    By the way… how much do they pay you to be an idiot online?? :-p

    seema Reply:

    aditya
    do u know the following facts??// just say yes or no

    or do you belive factual knowwledge is not needed and anyone can say anything like” the earth is flat” and call others imaginative and abusive and hateful if they disagree because they go by the factual evidence which contradicts u because you r incapable of factual analysis either because of ignorance or deficient abilities ??

    or do u say the earth is flat because u dont know and thnk any better.

    so answer about these facts…if u can

    india’s kashmir and pakistan and bangladesh has cleansed hindus

    hindus have become extinct from afganistan to kashmir whre they lived for centuries

    a major portion of subcontinent land has become islamic

    is this good for secularism unless to u secularism and sharia which discriminates aginst
    non belivers is teh same thing??

    ever heard of shahbano?? what was it??

    cm achutannandan just days ago said kerala will become islamic in 20 yrs.

    do you know this???if not why not?? because media hid it??
    just google and learn. use ur common sense right???

    is kerala cm an imaginative troll

    do u know godhra train burnin ?? is it a sign of love

    in the usa many are aginst mosques and in europe action is being taken to contain islam.
    are these imaginative trolls.

    do u know europe stopped islam in 732 ad

    unlike india which has been ruled and conquered by islam for 1000 yeras

    and yet here are your conclusions

    islam doe s not conquer and spread though it did all the way to europe whre the christians stopped it and r containing it today by tightening immigration banning mosques and
    burkhas and the usa has now joined in….

    are they all imaginative trolls.???

    and u conclude in ur typical style without any logical connect

    that it is the hindus who are a threat to minorities when it is islam that has ruled
    and it is hindus that have been converetd for centuriesto other religions

    so without any facts against hindus who have never invaded or ruled any land
    but have been ruled conquered and lost land,
    u conclude that hindus r the biggest threat and they will go after all minorities who have been ruling using congress as proxy for last 60 yeras thru the significant votebank

    ahmed patel is sonia’s deputy and one call from him to cbi etc to put hindus in jail
    is enough and today the usa contradicted mecca masjid story and said it was done bangladeshis terror.

    is ur definition of logical conclusions and facts to call peole hateful,abusive and imaginative trolls when the facts show that u are a pervert combination
    of ignorance,hatred aginst hindus,treason,abuse,pervert fantasy paranoid about hindus but fine with factual evidence against islam’s expansion over centuries without even
    batting aeyelid for the genocides in moplah,kashmir,etc a
    assuming u r hindu which is doubtful,

    Aditya K. Reply:

    Seema,

    Your take on logic is to look at one side of the picture and block all others… history is both fluid and muti-coloured and not as black and white as you project it to be… You have taken instances out and use them together without reference to paint a picture… These are all the same points and rants that EVERY troll comes up with everywhere on the web. I shall answer all your questions and will not be obliged to a black/white yes/no style that you seem to favour.

    “india’s kashmir and pakistan and bangladesh has cleansed hindus”

    FALSE… I personally know Hindus and Christians from all THREE places and they are doing well for themselves… NOT AS GOOD AS IT SHOULD BE but still remarkable for repressive regions. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir have all been hit by one variation of extremism or another… To expect them to function as a secular democracy is not only stupid but also fanciful.

    “a major portion of subcontinent land has become islamic

    is this good for secularism unless to u secularism and sharia which discriminates aginst
    non belivers is teh same thing??”

    A major portion of the sub-continent has been Islamic for centuries… and lets not forget (like some people commented in another blog) that India is India because of all its histories together… Islamic influence has had its negative effects and positive effects… Only a fool would focus on one and ignore the other!

    And don’t forget… even Pakistan did not have Islamic laws per se till Zia-ul-Haq came to the scene and changed them from a liberal society to a conservative one. It is since then that minorities started having trouble there.

    “ever heard of shahbano?? what was it??”

    The Shahbano case was politics played with judiciary!

    “cm achutannandan just days ago said kerala will become islamic in 20 yrs.

    do you know this???if not why not?? because media hid it??
    just google and learn. use ur common sense right???

    is kerala cm an imaginative troll”

    YES HE IS! Are you blind! He is all over the place with his fingers in all types of corruption pies! No doubt there is a problem with the right wing Muslim parties there…. but such sensationalist statement can only be made an idiot to work other idiots into a frenzy… and for what?? VOTES!

    “do u know godhra train burnin ?? is it a sign of love”

    No… but did we catch the people who did it? NO! We went and killed and burned innocents in a different city! Is raping women a sign of love? Men and children who had nothing to do with the train burning? IS THIS YOUR LOGIC? My car was stolen last year… should I come and blame you for it? YOU ARE SELECTIVE IN YOUR LOGIC!

    “in the usa many are aginst mosques and in europe action is being taken to contain islam.
    are these imaginative trolls.”

    NO THESE ARE UNIMAGINATIVE TROLLS! You people cry when you say countries like Saudi Arabia are restrictive and don’t allow freedom of religion but applaud when free countries like France and Switzerland take a step back and become less free and more paranoid! Is it a good thing if democracies become theocracies too??!?! IS THIS YOUR LOGIC??

    “do u know europe stopped islam in 732 ad

    unlike india which has been ruled and conquered by islam for 1000 yeras”

    PLEASE READ YOUR HISTORY AGAIN! No one stopped anyone… if that stupid reasoning is applied then one can even argue that Islam stopped Christianity from moving eastward during and after the crusades! Hence saving Eastern faiths… ITS YOUR LOGIC!

    “and yet here are your conclusions”

    YOU ARE A LIAR… Those are your projections…

    “so without any facts against hindus who have never invaded or ruled any land
    but have been ruled conquered and lost land,
    u conclude that hindus r the biggest threat and they will go after all minorities who have been ruling using congress as proxy for last 60 yeras thru the significant votebank”

    LOL! Wah wah! WHAT LOGIC! With a population of 25%… Muslims alone have been able to vote the Congress to power and rule by proxy! LOL! Significant vote bank indeed! And for your kind information… I’m very proud of the ancient Hindu kingdoms that did conquer land and territory in the east and west of present day India… how do you think Hinduism spread as far as Indonesia and Timor? Even Afghanistan has Hindu rulers once.. I’m sure they didn’t win the land from the Hellenic governors by saying ‘please’. LOL! WHAT LOGIC!

    “ahmed patel is sonia’s deputy and one call from him to cbi etc to put hindus in jail
    is enough and today the usa contradicted mecca masjid story and said it was done bangladeshis terror.”

    TYPICAL TROLL TERROR MONGERING! If if was this easy then Gujarat culprits would not have been free till this date! AND where did USA contradict the Mecca Masjid blast? Was it FOX News?? I’ll believe in the due process of the Indian investigation and not depend on some shady American report to form my opinion thank you very much!

    “is ur definition of logical conclusions and facts to call peole hateful,abusive and imaginative trolls when the facts show that u are a pervert combination
    of ignorance,hatred aginst hindus,treason,abuse,pervert fantasy paranoid about hindus but fine with factual evidence against islam’s expansion over centuries without even
    batting aeyelid for the genocides in moplah,kashmir,etc a
    assuming u r hindu which is doubtful,”

    Well so much for your logic! And I don’t need to prove my religious faith to you! I am secular in my beliefs and my faith in my country… I don’t hate other Indian citizens and i’m more than happy to call a spade a spade unlike people like you who are only selective and destructive!

    daspayal Reply:

    wow aditya..so u decide that it is remarkable for minorities in repressde regions..so u admit there is repression but that is ur standard to let hindus suffer and then call it remarkable ..ofoucrse ur only ability is to use subjective words luiek remarkable,abuse,hate imaginative which means differeng things to different peole…

    u r a 50 % cut off major for heavens sake ..u did not ven get those math and physisc objective problems right because that is what tests logic and analysis…any iidiot can learn alanguage like a parrot…u rpobably dont evn know the meaning of subjective…

    so ur concerned about the post godhra culprits…have u shown any concern for the hindus in kashmir,pakistan,bdesh and train burning…. and dont fool us with lip service…
    oh yeah they are doing welll by ur standard..by the way is kashmir repressive region too..
    is this what u seculars have achieved that hindus have become extinct there??

    oh i forget they r hindus and any suffreing can be justified with fraud like ..there life is remarkable by ur standard..oh yeah rem,arkable in the grave and in refugge camps…

    do u see the diffrence betwen gujarat and kashmir which u could careless about…muslims r living there and prospering more than ur sicku states liek bengal..ur propaganda poster boy qutbuddin returned to gujarat from bengal…

    nand u talk as if communal retaliation happened for the first time in gujarat 2002…idoit whata bout all the riots since 1947…did ur congress punish anyone..and why r quiet about justice for sikhs 1984..

    shah bano is judiciary politics..ignorant moron….the congress was forced by muslims coming out on the streets like they do with any issue….starting from partition and being traitors and cowards as long as they r not affected….tehy surrender…why was tasleema give such a hard timwe in ur secular india…oh i forget it is secular to obey ur 7th c entury mullahs like in shahbano and tasleema

    ur actions speak and obviously u love muslims and hate hindus because u could care less about them…and u hate their protectors….if u had ur way u would call jawans who r protecting us hateful…

    u show how u 50 % least competitive mahjors r trying to compensate for their inferiority complex by bombast and acting like judgesabout what is “abuse”,”remarkable”,”hate”,”imaginative”

    look at ur school marks man u were bottom ranked and language does not substitute for a barin and analytical skillls ,logic..correlated with the sciences…and dont act like a judge adjucating and definding hate,abuse,remarkable,imaginative..
    idiot u dont even have brains and analytical skills and factual knowldge
    equal to a judge’s waste matter…ur so stupid that u r tieing urself up in knots and even akid knows that rules have to be equal ….
    so justice in gujarat for muslims becauise in all riots till 2002 mostly hindus suffered because ..do u know gujarat used to have riots every yr……

    obvioulsly u dont….or u are mullah agent paid from arabia to promote sharia which considers a kafirs life useless..

    and why r u avoiding the hate passages verses in the koran…what are doing to excise them for someone who lectures alla nd sundry about hate…our protectors liek jawans have to fight traitors liek u who will be defaming them by calling them hateful because they r defending themselves agins ur jihadi riots…

    idiot ask ur congress to first give justice to 1000 plus innocents kiled in teror bombings….

    that u wont do and hush up…now go and pray for sorabuddin and kasab and afzal’s soul….

    and thank congress for not hanging ur brother…. idiot ur a halfbreed if u r ahindu..this is caled the mingling theory when muslim men impregnate hindu wome to conceive muslim lovers and hindu haters like u…..and this not abuse….u can stick ur pervert vocab in afzal’s backside when u next meet him……and look for ur real father in a mosque ..ur time will be better used…

    prakash gulati Reply:

    aditya is this report below fox news???

    also what was the percentage vote that congress won in 2009???

    u shuldknow because u commented on seema’s minority vote analysis.

    NEW DELHI: Contrary to Centre’s growing estimate that alleged Hindu extremists carried out the May 2007 Mecca Mosque blast in Hyderabad, the United States and the United Nations have held the Pakistan-based Harkat-ul-Jihad Islami (HuJI) responsible for it. The UN has, in fact, termed the blast a joint operation of HuJI and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and listed a number of other terror attacks in India in which these outfits were involved.

    HuJI’s role in the Mecca Mosque blast was highlighted both by the US and the UN while banning the outfit as a `terrorist organisation’ and designating its top commander Ilyas Kashmiri as a `global terrorist’ having links with al-Qaeda on Friday. Kashmiri had recently been indicted in the US for providing material support to Pakistani-American LeT operative David Coleman Headley.

    India had also suspected HuJI’s involvement in the Mecca Masjid blasts before stumbling upon evidence linking the terror act to the group aligned with Abhinav Bharat who are suspect in two other attacks on Muslim targets — the blast at a mosque in Malegaon and at the Ajmer Shrine. It is possible that the UN and US authorities did not check with India for fresh updates on investigation into the crimes, going along with the initial line of Indian investigators.

    Their “finding” may trigger a controversy because investigators have uncovered more evidence linking the Mecca Masjid blast which killed 16 people and injured 40 to Hindu extremists.

    The US has pointed out that HuJI — which has been operating in India and Pakistan — had carried out this terror attack besides several others including the one in Varanasi in March 2007.

    Justifying its determination, the US department of state in its statement said: “These actions were taken in consultation with the department of the treasury and the department of justice…. These actions will give US law enforcement additional tools needed to restrict the flow of resources to both HuJI and Mohammad Ilyas Kashmiri.”

    The same day, the UN too imposed sanctions on both HuJI and its commander Ilyas Kashmiri, subjecting both the entity and the individual to “the assets freeze, travel ban and arms embargo”. The world body has also listed a number of terror attacks which were carried out by HuJI. Besides the Mecca Masjid blast, these include the twin explosions in Hyderabad in August 2007 and suicide bombing of the US Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, in March 2006 among others.

    Though India had banned the outfit long ago, the UN’s decision may have its implications in Pakistan as all members of the world body would now be required to implement “asset freeze, travel ban and arms embargo” against HuJI and Kashmiri.

    Although the American decision gave credence to what Indian investigators had initially suspected on the basis of preliminary findings in the Mecca Masjid blast, it contradicted the recent probe suspecting links of perpetrators of this blast with those of the Malegaon (September 2006), Samjhauta Express (February 2007 in Haryana), and the Ajmer Sharif dargah (October 2007) blasts. The National Investigation Agency (NIA) was recently handed over the probe of the Samjhauta blast case. The investigation will also look into whether all these blasts were actually carried out by Hindu terror outfit Abhinav Bharat or some other Hindu extremists groups.

    Though the initial probe had hinted at involvement of Hindu extremist group in the Samjhauta blast, the twist came when the US last year named one Arif Qasmani of Karachi as being involved in the Mumbai suburban train blasts of July 2006 and in the Samjhauta Express blast. The NIA will now have to find out the truth.

    Read more: HuJI ban takes no note of ‘Hindu terror’ role – India – The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/HuJI-ban-gives-new-twist-to-Mecca-Masjid-blast-case/articleshow/6272245.cms#ixzz0w9ruHbhn

    [Reply]

    Aditya K. Reply:

    Daspayal,

    It seems to me you have received new instructions from your ‘jehadi’ masters to be a nuisance once again… What have you done really instead of again propagating half-truths, hinduvta propaganda and abusing me?

    And any idiot can see the difference between your rants and my arguments and know who got the better education… and comes from a better family… since you have so amply insulted and abused mine and I’m yet to say anything about your parents… it shows who the real loser is…

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @prakash gulati

    LOL! You just pasted an article that COMPLETELY supports my stand! It clearly states that the US and UN has blamed HuJI but did not consult the Indians to get up to date with the issue… example from your article…

    ” It is possible that the UN and US authorities did not check with India for fresh updates on investigation into the crimes, going along with the initial line of Indian investigators.

    Their “finding” may trigger a controversy because investigators have uncovered more evidence linking the Mecca Masjid blast which killed 16 people and injured 40 to Hindu extremists.”

    Investigators have uncovered more evidence of Hindu extremists which the US and UN went with the original analysis that it was a HuJI job (this analysis was made by the Indian investigators but evidence let them on the right track!). So what are YOU trying to prove?? LOL!

    As for the vote analysis… Seema was claiming that the congress was voted into power only because of the muslim minority vote (total muslim minority population stands at 25% approx) and hence Muslims are controlling the government by proxy…

    One really has to know nothing about the electoral process to actually believe in something like that… Or do you have another TOI article that says what I’m saying but you think says something else?? LOL! :-D

    prakash gulati Reply:

    aditya i asked u a simple factual question…
    what was the congress percentage vote in 2009 elctions??

    this is simple school kid factual qs.

    before we get into the analysis we need to know the facts…

    if u cant underrstand this simple requirement ,which anyone can

    again just a 2 character numerical answer ..if u need help
    let me know…but dont waste ur time by posting something else…..

    do u understand///// even a school kid taking an exam does…

    again what was the numerical percentage vote in support of the congress
    in the 2009 elections…

    does it make sense to u that analyis shuld come after factual knowledge???

    to most peole this is common sense…

    also how does toi support your case…just because it adds its own
    details…

    why shuld usa update if it is not agreeing to indian investigations

    are u aware of the ishrat and headley investigations of the usa which contradict
    the congress affidavits on ishrat

    do u know what an affidavit is?? do u know that contrary affidavits
    demolish the credibility of the party??

    do u know many congress cbi investigations show flip flops like mulayam,mayawati sajjan sinhg

    please answer facts….now subjective opinions like this is hate,that is abuse,this is idiotic,this is remarkable..etc
    if u do not know juts say so….i should not have to fight against ur ego…please respect my time….and try to learn if u dont know…

    and if you do just give me 2 numbers for the congress % vote in 2009

    simple right??/

    Aditya K. Reply:

    @Prakash Gulati,

    You are trying to sound reasonable and smart… but your premise is HOLLOW!

    YOU SAY: what was the congress percentage vote in 2009 elctions??

    It was about 37.22%… now you are going to say that 25% Muslims voted for congress so therefore they brought them to power and therefore they control the government… If thats your argument then please don’t bother… that has to be most un-educated analogy ever! Read up about the Indian electoral process!

    YOU SAY: “also how does toi support your case…just because it adds its own
    details…

    why shuld usa update if it is not agreeing to indian investigations

    are u aware of the ishrat and headley investigations of the usa which contradict
    the congress affidavits on ishrat

    do u know what an affidavit is?? do u know that contrary affidavits
    demolish the credibility of the party??”

    You are one of those Western worshipping types arn’t you?? What ever US/ US media says is the absolute truth! What a shame! I’d rather trust the Indian investigators!

    And for your credibility demolition… THATS THE BIGGEST JOKE! Modi was DENIED visa for the Gujarat genocide! What about that credibility then? LOL!

    YOU SAY: “please answer facts….now subjective opinions like this is hate,that is abuse,this is idiotic,this is remarkable..etc
    if u do not know juts say so….i should not have to fight against ur ego…please respect my time….and try to learn if u dont know…”

    You mean if I don’t act like you and look at things SELECTIVELY then its my EGO?? :-p

    YOU SAY: “and if you do just give me 2 numbers for the congress % vote in 2009″

    That is an incorrect statement. but I have provided the response above in case

    prakash gulati Reply:

    aditya….u r response is hopeless because by ur logic u will target a vernacular iitian for his english pronunciation in a debate …like u do spellings here…do know the word typo or errors…most peole r intelligent enough to understan the meaning without perfect spelling ..

    and what are u a 50 % arts guy who works in ad copy just because he knows english which even aparrot can be taught…logic,analysis backed by facts is another skill whre u r not surprisngly deficient….

    u need perfect spelling because ur understanding level is so low…as many other posts show…

    and it helps u to divert from the main topic and issues and facts which u cannot face headon..what a cheat a nd sour loser…

    as someones aid u agree with the pakistanis liek faisan and muslims and 7th c entrury mullahs who dont want madani arrested in kerala now and r out on teh streets liek in shahbano, tasleema, batla hose encounter, because he is a muslim despite their so called respect for congress cbi when it acts against modi on behalf of angels ishrat and sorabuddin bothe confirmed terrorists…

    ur in great progresive company with 7th century rigid beliefs dictating all thinking and action
    by ur logic u are an arabian worshipper and shuld go arabia whre u will love the 7th century society with your women in burkha…and tehy will love u for ur pro muslim terrrorist and hate idol worshipper hindu views…..

    ha ha whre r u….in kerala making sure madani is not arrested…. otehrwise u and ur brotherhood gang of muslims will pelt stones at police like ur brothers did for bareili maulana who statrted riots recently in which hindus suffered…

    that is why madani cannot be arrested and not a word from pious hypocrite traitors like u..

    one more thing ….i am not from ad copy…..which requires 50 % cutoff types liek u who cannot do anything else…
    u r so ignorant even about ur field …forget facts related to discussion hre..

    u dont know that advertising also includes marketing mbas who analyse marketing strategy of company…..i am an mba from iim….

    have u heard of them…or the CAT …..no u r theheight of ignorance and unwarranted arrogance and yet u have the nerve to play fascist here passing judgments about who shuld read up,hate,abuse, go to a merica…spelling etc…

    and leevae u here to manage india…..yeah by protesting with mob violence against arresting madani against court orders …

    ur idea of managing india is to allow terrorists a free run….and make sure hindus r called terorist based on congress rigged votebank policies….

    what is teh evidence against sadhvi and why is usa which has no votebank policy and is truly anti terror disagree ing with votebank congress on mecca masjid

    very clever mr hindu hater …as long as muslim terrorits go free …fine…those families hwo lost their loved one s in all terrror bombings so far shuld get justice by punishing u severely…and also the jawans’ families…

    good lluck in kerala…to manage india by making madani angel like ur family ishrat a nd dawood and sorab

    prakash gulati Reply:

    vir please respect my right to have my say and post my yesterdays post …..to aditya

    .and respect my time and effort…we give u our private emails and expect to u to honor ur part…
    otherwise why would give u our private property our email…

    .u shuld not favor one commenter over another…..just because of ur well known biases…
    is my money not good eneough for ur sponsors….are only pakistani’s,muslims and secular congress supprterrs buying from the…what is this sharia enforcement by ht???/

    [Reply]

    prakash gulati Reply:

    vir u posted the 2nd post not my firts reply to adityai which read…
    please respect myrights u take our private email for ur business motives and i am an advertising guy and my money is equal to ur sponsors…i am surprised u dont even know that..

    congress won 26 % and bjp 18 %..

    u r factually wrong…
    u say ..now you are going to say that 25% Muslims voted for congress so therefore they brought them to power and therefore they control the government… If thats your argument then please don’t bother… that has to be most un-educated analogy ever! Read up about the Indian electoral process!

    can u make a LOGICAL link beiween ist part and 2nd…..just calling me an uneducated and asking me to read up especially when u r ignorant of even facts like congress 26 % vote shows how low u r..

    and heres ur other genius logic..if amercan investigation is more credible an dless corrupt than congress investigations then whoes efault is that..why did cbi do a flip flop on
    mulayam,mayawati..and recently pappu yadav and saajan singh and tyler..all congressis …

    are we reuired to be fools and ignorants like u to not analyse these facts and if we dont we become american worshippers…u r such a moron that u cant see that by ur own logic u can be called a congress worshippers….and for someone whose views agrree with the pakistanis,muslims and mullahs and hindu haters…it is u who are an arabian islamist worshipper and

    if u r a communist..thehn idiotya u shuld know communism has failed everywhre and ur wbengal is ahell hole whre tasleema is banned and ur kerala cannot arrest a madani under orders of high court because muslims r thretening violence like they did in bareli to release maulana…

    i dr ather worship america whre peole act against terrorists and cooruption than imports like communism and arabia’s 7th century religion….

    now go and prepare for ehavn by worshipping ur mullah..idiotya and blame congress for corrupting institution slike cbi..ask them why sadhvi is in jail without eveidence that they never reveal while madani is in ac comfort….whywas there no problem to arrest sadhvi and why is madani’s arrest aproble…shuld hindu start using violenec liek muslims do whther shabano,pakistan formation,tasleema,bareili ,maulana and now madani..

    Aditya K. Reply:

    I seriously doubt you are in advertising looking at your copy! Incoherent and error-ridden! I should know… I write copy!

    If you are so enamoured by America just go and live there… don’t bother us here we’ll manage pretty well without you…

    seema Reply:

    vir please let us respond…dont favor people ..we buy from ur sponsors and our money is as good as any one elses…
    ha ha aditya using his expertise at irrelevancies like spelling ,go to america etc..

    when he cant argue with past facts and connect them with logic to his arguments which educated peole do…back to his diversions like a typical loser who wants to avoid the isssues in the debate

    what does glati’s adverising to do with his arguments….he was saying that to vir who unfairly silenecd him

    i am intentionally mispelling here becaus ei type in ahurry to minimize my time with morons like u…mots morons will understand typos…and that they r errors .but not 7th century genius idiotya

    so now he got his facts wronglike congress vote which is fine but ur spelling shuld be perfect..wow just because the idiot has nothing else to talk about and this is topic now..

    speeling and copy…because he wants to change a subject whre he was beaten hands down…

    genius u rin the company of arabain mullahs who will applaud ur views which are baseless but as long asthey r promulims and ant kafirs…u r a hero for 7th century

    so by ur logic u r an arab pakistani worshipper and u shuld go there…and it will be good for india one less traitor and enemy within…even vermin do less harm to india than people like u who are imports from 7th century arabia…

    what an evil clown…the comedy is hilarious but his treason and idiocy isnt
    even mulhas r better at least they are loyal to their religion..half breeds r ttraitors

    poor idiotya has jumped on ad and copy to target gulati when gulati was wanting his post from vir….and idiotya wuld love it if vir censors it….like his fatwas here

    that is why fatwa masterslike him can only write baseless judgments/fatwas..like “abuse”,”hate”,”imaginative” not knowing that even conclusions
    have to first be backed by facts… so he agrees that 25 % minority vote can make congress win with 26 %….

    but then he fatwas that gulati shuld read up..when the man ddoes not even have basic factual knowledge about a congress26 % vote..read up why and what the man does not even have the ability and honesty to explain .

    .instead he diverts to ad and copy and america worshipping ..so if america and china wins more medals in olymopics than india and anyone analyses facts and says that..then this genius will calll him america,china worshipper for being honest..

    all this to disgustingly target hindus as terrorists in mecca masjid, when usa which honestly is trying to fight terrorism against usa contradicst cbi
    which 82 % belive is a corrupt congress paid agency..

    and try to show dawood aide sorabuddin and ishrat as angels…wow…

    this traitor shuld be punished severely by all those who r concerend about islamic terrorism like usa…and china etc.etc such traitors can breed only india….with hindu names….

    prakash gulati Reply:

    aditya where r u??? when r u returning from kerala after protesting against madani arrest..court be damned he…only respect it when hindus r arrested like u do cbi on mecca masjid when true terrorism non-votebank usa has blamed islamic terrro for those…???anway dont pelt to many stones on police when they arrest madani if they rallowed to do so by seculars…..who give 24-7 commentary on amit shah

    aditya….u r response is hopeless because by ur logic u will target a vernacular iitian for his english pronunciation in a debate …like u do spellings here…do know the word typo or errors…most peole r intelligent enough to understan the meaning without perfect spelling ..

    and what are u a 50 % arts guy who works in ad copy just because he knows english which even aparrot can be taught…logic,analysis backed by facts is another skill whre u r not surprisngly deficient….

    u need perfect spelling because ur understanding level is so low…as many other posts show…

    and it helps u to divert from the main topic and issues and facts which u cannot face headon..what a cheat a nd sour loser…

    as someones aid u agree with the pakistanis liek faisan and muslims and 7th c entrury mullahs who dont want madani arrested in kerala now and r out on teh streets liek in shahbano, tasleema, batla hose encounter, because he is a muslim despite their so called respect for congress cbi when it acts against modi on behalf of angels ishrat and sorabuddin bothe confirmed terrorists…

    ur in great progresive company with 7th century rigid beliefs dictating all thinking and action
    by ur logic u are an arabian worshipper and shuld go arabia whre u will love the 7th century society with your women in burkha…and tehy will love u for ur pro muslim terrrorist and hate idol worshipper hindu views…..

    ha ha whre r u….in kerala making sure madani is not arrested…. otehrwise u and ur brotherhood gang of muslims will pelt stones at police like ur brothers did for bareili maulana who statrted riots recently in which hindus suffered…

    that is why madani cannot be arrested and not a word from pious hypocrite traitors like u..

    one more thing ….i am not from ad copy…..which requires 50 % cutoff types liek u who cannot do anything else…
    u r so ignorant even about ur field …forget facts related to discussion hre..

    u dont know that advertising also includes marketing mbas who analyse marketing strategy of company…..i am an mba from iim….

    have u heard of them…or the CAT …..no u r theheight of ignorance and unwarranted arrogance and yet u have the nerve to play fascist here passing judgments about who shuld read up,hate,abuse, go to a merica…spelling etc…

    and leevae u here to manage india…..yeah by protesting with mob violence against arresting madani against court orders …

    ur idea of managing india is to allow terrorists a free run….and make sure hindus r called terorist based on congress rigged votebank policies….

    what is teh evidence against sadhvi and why is usa which has no votebank policy and is truly anti terror disagree ing with votebank congress on mecca masjid

    very clever mr hindu hater …as long as muslim terrorits go free …fine…those families hwo lost their loved one s in all terrror bombings so far shuld get justice by punishing u severely…and also the jawans’ families…

    good lluck in kerala…to manage india by making madani angel like ur family ishrat a nd dawood and sorab

  • http://- Rajeev

    I guess Vineet is one of the HT staffers posting comments in favor of Vir. I am pleased to see that Vir has some support. All power to him and people like him.

    [Reply]

  • http://- Rajeev

    Hindus are of different types-
    1. Muslim fearing Hindus = Seculars like Vir, Vinod Sharma, Vinod Mehta, Pranab Roy, Sardesai and his arm candy and chamchas like Vineet.
    2. Indifferent Hindus = Most of the hindus fall in this category. They are too busy surviving and rightly so.
    3. Standing upto Muslims Hindus = Communal Hindus, Internet hindus, Caring for India Hindus like us.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Sanghvi , is running scared shit. Previously these worthies could write anything in printed media , you could not refute as they would filter you out in letter to the editor column. Now they get exposed at their superficiality, their hypocrisy . I have had a go at quite a few of them here in HT.
    What this guju doesnot understand is if anything is defamatory or inaccurate , YOU CAN REBUTT IT IMMEDIATELY WITH UNFETTERED ACCESS. So I cant understand what is the problem . Also objectionable comments if untrue are routinely removed from website. So it boils down to EMPIRE is crumbling in front of these journos eyes.

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    HAHAHAHA… okay sorry… I couldn’t resist… Its more accurate like this:

    1. Non-Communal Indians = Seculars that believe in value of all citizens regardless of faith. Caring for India Indians.

    2. Indifferent Indians = Too busy surviving and rightly so.

    3. Communal Indians = Internet fanatics, war-mongers, civil un-rest loving folks who would rather spill blood than work together with fellow man. Abusive ranters that will attack at anyone with a different thought, history re-visionists, propaganda fuelling haters. Sadistic worms that like to see others in pain and misery, truth distorters that work for specific agendas in an exclusive rather than inclusive manner and so on and so forth.

    Now replace Indian with Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian etc. and its all still the same and still just as accurate. Hating Muslims doesn’t make anyone a better Hindu or Indian… it flies flat in the face of most of what Hinduism teaches us and is all about.

    And yea… now I expect to be fully jumped up on by all those people whose first reaction will be “Look at this! Bloody Muslim! I’ll teach him a lesson! Attaaaaaaaaaaaack!”

    :-D

    [Reply]

    Sanjiv Reply:

    this is an extreme piece…guys pls. bring in some sanity here….

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Sanjiv,

    You found this the most extreme piece?! :-D

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    You are free to have your opinion.
    But what i have written about MY COMMUNITY is absolutely true.
    However you don’t have such HONESTY when it comes to YOUR COMMUNITY.

    We have seen how muslims behave when in majority..The pakistanis are your flesh and blood and you would behave no different from them if you become majority in India.

    You personally may be moderately communal muslim but not all are like you.

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    We have been slugging it out here forever yet you understand very little about your fellow citizen… ‘MY COMMUNITY’ would be Atheists… sadly… they are hard to come by here… and yea… even of you replace Indian with Atheist in any of those 3 scenarios I presented then also it would be accurate…

    “However you don’t have such HONESTY when it comes to YOUR COMMUNITY.”

    Please read again what I had written… “Now replace Indian with Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian etc. and its all still the same and still just as accurate. ”

    Why are you saying something I have already nullified?? You dislike Muslims… and anyone born into that religion… that colours your perception about me and everyone else… the sooner you realise that the better!

    Rajeev Reply:

    No, I don’t dislike muslims but I hate their double standards.
    They keep demanding equal rights and secularism when in minority but suppress non-muslims in muslim majority countries.

    You have no problems with mosques sitiing in Hindu holy places but the very idea of building a church or temple next to Kaaba enrages you.
    The Atheists cover has been used by moderate communal muslims for very long. Your kind will change colors the day India becomes muslim majority.

    Many of the muslim marxists chose pakistan over India..That’s a fact.

    FAIZAN Reply:

    @ Rajeev
    i don’t understand rajeev what ru thinking when u say the double standards of muslims, as if the ones demanding the equal rights as u say and the ones suppressing the others are the same individuals.
    Muslims or whomsoever should follow and they are following the constitution of their repective countries be it Islamic States like Saudi Arabia and Iran , or secular like Turkey or India.
    but i think its against humanity if you target to suppress humans on basis of caste or religion and expect them not to raise their voice.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajiv,

    There you go again, you start with a general terms and end with a “your kind” accusation. How infinitely silly do you have to be to think that billions of Muslims from there world over are the same because they kind-of believe (you will be gobsmacked at the variations of practices and beliefs) in the same God and book. Not only is it juvenile but also regressive to ask an Indian by the Saudi Government won’t allow temples and churches in Mecca.

    Should I start asking you about why ‘Hindus can’t get along with communists in Nepal’? Or why Kenyan Hindus aren’t able to integrate into the society and that its people like you who cause trouble!” You will be the first to jump up and point out that thats the most ridiculous and nonsense question ever and it is… it is all nonsense… but you have to realise your analogies for Muslims are equally nonsense. You try to equate apples and oranges and then give your verdict.

    And you have no right to comment on my lack of religious belief… why is your thinking so narrow that the concept of a person not having a religion is beyond you?! Is it because of your intolerance to difference or your lack of perspective?

    Your recycling of the same “Muslims in this country like this, Muslims in that country like that so its all your fault” rhetoric is not only tiresome, it smacks of the lack of any kind of thought process.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    There you go again, you start with a general terms and end with a “your kind” accusation. How infinitely silly do you have to be to think that billions of Muslims from there world over are the same because they kind-of believe (you will be gobsmacked at the variations of practices and beliefs) in the same God and book. Not only is it juvenile but also regressive to ask an Indian why the Saudi Government won’t allow temples and churches in Mecca.

    Should I start asking you about why ‘Hindus can’t get along with communists in Nepal’? Or why Kenyan Hindus aren’t able to integrate into the society and that its people like you who cause trouble!” You will be the first to jump up and point out that thats the most ridiculous and nonsense question ever and it is… it is all nonsense… but you have to realise your analogies for Muslims are equally nonsense. You try to equate apples and oranges and then give your verdict.

    And you have no right to comment on my lack of religious belief… why is your thinking so narrow that the concept of a person not having a religion is beyond you?! Is it because of your intolerance to difference or your lack of perspective?

    Your recycling of the same “Muslims in this country like this, Muslims in that country like that so its all your fault” rhetoric is not only tiresome, it smacks of the lack of any kind of thought process.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    Don’t you fight for rights of muslims all over the world (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine etc.) so what stops you from fighting for non-muslims in muslim majority country?
    I don’t want to answer the other idiot as he is brainwashed mullah.

    What happened to you? I thought your were moderately communal.

    You can read columns of muslim journalist espousing the causes of muslims all over the world, one of them being Javed Naqvi (Dawn) who never leaves an opportunity to paint all hindus as evil working against PEACEFUL muslims. Why can’t he or you write on pligths of xtians in pakistan being killed for philosophy or hindus being hounded out of homes, their women kidnapped, their temples taken over or demolished…Why don’t you raise voice against that?

    I don’t have to demostrate my secularism to you as I practice it in day to day life..It is you who have not yet behaved secularly.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    This is unbelievable… Please allow me to break this down slowly for you…

    “Don’t you fight for rights of muslims all over the world (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine etc.)”

    No! I don’t! read again… I DON’T!! I’ve infact had torrid arguments with Pakistanis and Afghans in Saudi Arabia and UK against the very same Muslim-global-brotherhood nonsense. So you are wrong. Not only are you wrong factually but also wrong morally with regards to the manner in which you chose to form an opinion about me based on nothing but your own assumptions! And to go further… YOU YOURSELF HAS NEVER EVEN DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT AND YOU ARE COMPLAINING! Atleast I took the time out to engage the supposed enemy instead of being an armchair critic!

    “so what stops you from fighting for non-muslims in muslim majority country?”

    We had many many Hindu and Christian friends at school in Saudi Arabia (International Indian School, Riyadh – you can verify) and when there we were Indians… we sang the national anthem, raised the flag and did everything exactly like it is done in India. We had brawls and fights with the ‘enemy students’ from the Pakistani School and the Bangladeshi School… and we were all in it together. I’ve fought with a Saudi shopkeeper during Ramadan because that idiot refused to sell food during fasting hours to a non-Muslim friend of mine and he fought a saudi for me when one tried to hit me for dressing up as Santa Claus in public!

    You seem to know nothing of such things! You have neither the exposure nor the experience. All you have are allegations!

    “What happened to you? I thought your were moderately communal.”

    HOW CAN A PERSON THAT DISLIKES THE VERY IDEA OF GOD BE COMMUNAL?! We have been writing here for months and it is crystal clear that you read nothing and even if you do, you absorb nothing. You have a pre-determined view and you will stick to it. The same rhetoric no matter how many times its been refuted!

    “You can read columns of muslim journalist espousing the causes of muslims all over the world, one of them being Javed Naqvi (Dawn) who never leaves an opportunity to paint all hindus as evil working against PEACEFUL muslims. Why can’t he or you write on pligths of xtians in pakistan being killed for philosophy or hindus being hounded out of homes, their women kidnapped, their temples taken over or demolished…Why don’t you raise voice against that?”

    I AM NOT FROM PAKISTAN! THEN WHY THE HELL SHOULD I CARE WHAT SOME PAKISTANI WRITER WRITES IN PAKISTAN?! WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!

    And Regardless of that… every-time I have come across rubbish on foreign sites I (and many other Indians) do make it a point to refute baseless allegations… but why will you see that?! You have divided the world into US vs. THEM and only see everything according to that.

    “I don’t have to demostrate my secularism to you as I practice it in day to day life..It is you who have not yet behaved secularly.”

    You don’t have any to demonstrate! If practicing it is telling Indian Muslims, Christians, other Hindus how bad and evil they are for bonding together then you are mistaken! You are incapable of judging people without a thought to their religion! You don’t see me or others as persons… rather elements of the religion we are all born into. This is India Rajeev, unfortunately EVERYONE is born into a religion! And you will always keep fighting…

    Never have I read one constructive idea from you… or an inclusive analysis… or definitive reasoning… only complaints and accusations! And I’m pretty sure that is whats going to go on!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    Did you see any Hindu/xtian worshipping in public in your holy land KSA?
    Did you not find it odd that KSA did not allow non-muslims to propogate their fate?

    You can make all the excuses you want ‘I am not a Pakistani blah blah’ but at the end of the day you just care for muslim issues. If Israel bombs shit out of terrorist Palestinians, you guys start condemning Israel without evidence.

    I have never seen you doing anything other than whining on behalf of communal muslims. It is in your blood..Iqbal is perfect example of how muslims evolve…
    1. When they are in India among non-muslims, they are relatively ignorant about Islamic fanaticism.
    2. When they grow up in muslim ghettos, they get brainwashed into believing that they are being suppressed by everyone.
    3. When they go abroad (hajj etc) they mix with fanatiics across the globe. They come back and poison minds of fellow muslims thus creating unrest.
    4. They turn fanatical and start demanding special rights for muslims..they resort to terror, rioting, vote bank politics, even involve other muslim countries to harrass India.
    5. They demand separate country and when responded, they brand other communal.

    Mr.Ahmer, if you replace hindu with muslim and vice versa in Indian history, you will start hating yourself. You divided this country, we tolerated you and allowed you to stay back..but what do we get in return, more fanaticism, terorr and riots and now another demand for special rights. Mister your community should be grateful that hindus did not behave as pakistanis did against hindus.
    Do you guys have any shame left?

    I visit Dargaah regularly and I have ample love for Sufi muslims (marginalised). I have no problems with tolerant muslims. They are like us. They are our brothers but your kind is most unwelcome..You should go and live with Wahabis.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @ Rajeev,

    Its the same re-hashed nonsense all over again! Let me break down your fake points…

    “Did you see any Hindu/xtian worshipping in public in your holy land KSA?”

    A) Its not my Holy Land… but the way you are obsessed about it it seems it might be your holy land. B) Yes I did see Hindus and Christians worshipping there… hidden… not very openly… but sometimes in public also… Hell… I almost got beaten up because I was celebrating Christmas dressed as Santa walking thru the streets of Riyadh publicly with my friends one of who was Christian!

    So… POINT FAIL!

    “Did you not find it odd that KSA did not allow non-muslims to propogate their fate?”

    Ofcourse I did… but I was small and then I realised that its a regressive, intolerant and religious theocracy and thats what they do! But you know whats even more odd… every once in a while… there would be articles and comments from Saudi’s in national newspapers (Gulf News was one) where you would read about how expatriates and people from other religions should be given more freedom of expression and religion. So I think there might be hope still for the Saudi’s to look forward to a better future. But like I don’t expect a temple or a mosque in the Vatican anytime soon I don’t expect the same in KSA either. They still have a long way to go!

    So, POINT FAIL!

    “1. When they are in India among non-muslims, they are relatively ignorant about Islamic fanaticism.”

    People like you never let Muslims be ignorant about anything! You are always blaming one set of people about what others are doing!

    POINT FAIL!

    “2. When they grow up in muslim ghettos, they get brainwashed into believing that they are being suppressed by everyone.”

    What else do you expect ghettos to do? Do you even understand the meaning of ghettoisation? Should you instead be talking about how we can get them out of ghettos and into mainstream rather than complaining!

    POINT CONFUSED!

    “3. When they go abroad (hajj etc) they mix with fanatiics across the globe. They come back and poison minds of fellow muslims thus creating unrest.”

    I have lived in Saudi Arabia for six long years and I know many people who have lived there. Thats the epicentre of Wahabbism! You have zero idea about the Indian society there. While there are some who are enamoured by the Arab way of life that they immerse themselves there the majority can’t wait to earn enough money and get out! As for your Haj example… a very close friend of mine stopping believing in God and religion right after Haj because for him it was total loss of faith!

    POINT MASSIVELY FAIL!

    “4. They turn fanatical and start demanding special rights for muslims..they resort to terror, rioting, vote bank politics, even involve other muslim countries to harrass India.”

    If only Muslims were this organised or united… they would never find themselves in the religious blackhole they are now.

    POINT MASSIVELY SPECULATIVE… FAIL!

    “5. They demand separate country and when responded, they brand other communal.”

    That is such a lame 1947-esqe line. Not to mention regular rhetoric propaganda. Stop worrying about people who went away after they got their land… what about the ones who choose to live here because they loved their homes and country and not some other so called haven of Muslims!

    REALITY REPRESSING PROPAGANDA… FAIL!

    “Mr.Ahmer, if you replace hindu with muslim and vice versa in Indian history, you will start hating yourself.”

    That does not make any sense! I know my history!

    “You divided this country, we tolerated you and allowed you to stay back..but what do we get in return, more fanaticism, terorr and riots and now another demand for special rights.”

    I did not divide this country. Neither did anyone in my family or distant relation or infact anyone that I know of. Maybe you had hand to play in it since you are going ‘We.. we’ on everything. As for fanaticism… what about Graham Stains murder in Orissa? Malegaon Blasts? Goa Blasts? Mecca Masjid Blasts? MNS? VHP? RSS? You and your kind (fanatics) are no better than the Islamic lunatics who profess to loving god but all they do is act like the devil. They are just like you… thinking themselves to be pure and honest and without blame always pointing the finger at others.

    You seem to have more in common with the Pakistani Taliban than you have with me as an Indian. Full of mis-conceptions, warped reality and intolerance!

    “Mister your community should be grateful that hindus did not behave as pakistanis did against hindus.”

    Mister you should be grateful that Indians like me respect your freedom of speech that you abuse to incite hate and repression of the very liberties that make our country. Not only are you against the very fabric of what could makes India a great place to live you also have a reactive nationalistic tendency to fear and loathe multiple national identities and cultures because you are by nature divisive!

    “Do you guys have any shame left?”

    Do you?! I am proud to be who I am and the positive inclusive role I strive to play in my everyday life with the people around me unlike you! I am proud of my ancestors who contributed to the culture of this country. I’m proud of my family that has fought on the battlefields defending these lands as well as in societies demanding freedom to self governance. I am proud I occupy a place in society where religion is irrelevant and abilities matter. I am proud not to be bitter even after FANATICS LIKE YOU abuse me and point a finger at me because you donot believe in India’s pluralism. I’m proud that my country give me the freedom to choose not to believe in god or religion.

    What are you proud of? Being a hate-monger?!

    “I visit Dargaah regularly and I have ample love for Sufi muslims (marginalised). I have no problems with tolerant muslims. They are like us.”

    Visiting a dargah makes you secular? That just proves you are religious and possibly superstitious! And want to score brownie points with all gods! And if that is any indication of anything then as a non believer I have been to churches, temples, synagogues, and mosques in multiple countries! Boy must I be a beacon of secularism! :-D NONSENSE!

    And what is a ‘tolerant muslim’… every statement of yours labels people and smacks of judgement!

    “You should go and live with Wahabis.”

    I think you will find them more agreeable to your thoughts than I have ever found them to mine in the past or will in the future.

    Now please don’t bother writing if you are going to recycle the same abuse again. If you have anything new… then I’m all ears… eyes in this case! :-p

    Rajeev Reply:

    As far as discussion on kashmir, I guess you were watching that program with your sympthies for muslim separatists. The kashmiri muslims were dominating that discussion giving very less room to voices of non-muslim kashmiris.

    The kashmir struggle is purely Islamic in nature due to two major reasons-
    1. All the Separatists are muslims. There is not a single non-muslim kashmiri that supports separation.
    2. All the slogans used by kashmiris are Islamic ‘Naare taqbeer Allah ho akbar’.

    It was never a secular struggle so why do you expect non-muslims to give up their stand and support separatists. This is your muslim thinking that you have expressed. Why should non-muslim kashmiris support separatist muslims?

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “I don’t want to answer the other idiot as he is brainwashed mullah.”

    That is your great answer to his reasoning… how constructive!

    [Reply]

    faizan Reply:

    well i think mr. rajeev has made his own definition of being a secular. He calls himself secular, though his remarks for non-hindus clearly shows his ideology, on the other hand when im defending my belief without saying a word against his, he calls me bloody brainwashed mullah. Well i don’t mind that at all as traditionally mullahs are the most well educated, intelligent and wise people of the society, so you have actually obliged me by saying that.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    Faizan, secular is misused term . The real meaning is where the functioning of the state ,ie its laws etc are not subservient to religion. By that criteria India is not a secular state , so long you have muslim personal laws , which are hadith in english.
    By the same token a secular person is whose life, ie, eating habit are not dictated by the edicts of religion.
    “Defending my faith” is uncannily similar to rss jargon , they may say hindus should not drink a glass of water from muslims , as they are mlecha.
    I eat beef and PORK with relish , and I am secular , that does not preclude visiting temple if I so wish , because you are looking for god, not religion.
    But in your case you are more interested in the edicts of religion, far far less in allah and thus a CARD CARRYING MEMBER of POLITICO RELIGIOUS ORGANISATION CALLED ISLAM.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I was right about you. You are moderately communal muslims..Instead of condemning fellow muslim you find fault. This is the reason you guys can never be truly secular. Your secularism starts with Islam and ends with Islam.

    If you are athiest, can you say that ‘Mohammad was NOT the last prophet..He basically lied’.

    [Reply]

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    HAHAHAHAHA! “moderately communal muslims” HAHAHAHA!!

    What an oxymoron! The act of being communal by itself voids any possibility of being a moderate! Either you are communal or you are not! And you dear Rajeev… are communal… so communal infact that after all that I have written and all the time I have professed my irritation with God and religion and rubbish like that you cannot contain yourself from being communal with me by putting me in the Muslim club… and thats only because my name sounds Muslim.. but do you even know what religion I was born into?! HAHA!

    “‘Mohammad was NOT the last prophet..He basically lied’”

    Sure thing! Mohammad was NOT the last prophet… in fact I think he wasn’t a prophet at all and he lied and made up things so that he could make people believe and follow what he thought was an awesome idea.

    There you go! Are you happy now you little child!

    “Tu ye bol tab main maanuga!” :-p

    Now shut your nonsense and apologise for doubting me and blaming me and and generally being a massively nasty person with me… and then maybe I… as a proud Indian… might be able to accept you as a fellow citizen of MY great country! :-D

    Rajeev Reply:

    Enough of HA HA HA…

    You have proved your secularism..Welcome to civillization.

    faizan Reply:

    @ Rajeev
    how would u prove your secularism rajeev? secular as per the constitution of India not yours so called ’secularism’, Being Atheist is completely different from being secular. Secularism is about following ur religion and respecting others, Atheists yes we can say are secular unless ur in ancient Rome …, but I have lot of doubts for you.

    @Ahmer
    Its completely ok for you being atheist as its your belief, but please don’t say things which you are not sure of as half knowledge is always dangerous just like the case of mr. rajeev.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    I did not prove prove my secularism nor do I need to… I wanted to prove my point that you are always judging people with bias and you again completely drive home the point with…

    “Enough of HA HA HA…

    You have proved your secularism..Welcome to civillization.”

    Welcome to Civilisation?!?! Isn’t that a joke! So if I am abuse a religion you don’t like I become ’secular’! If I defend the same religion on some other ground I become ‘moderately communal’. HAHAHAHA! What a pity! Duplicity and bias! I hope one day you are able to see this world without the taint of religion and understand what a great place it CAN be.

    @Faizan,

    Please don’t think I was ridiculing you beliefs… Its just that since I do not believe I can say such things without guilt or regret and actually might mean them. I wanted to call Rajeev’s bluff. You are free to respect the Prophet and believe in his teaching… I am free to doubt them… as long as we don’t FORCE our ideas on each other…. its all good! :-)

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    You sound hurt. I guess it was painful for you to diss murderous prophet.
    I have always considered all religions equal. I learnt duplicity when I came in contact with muslims.
    I am just showing you the mirror.

    I have no problem with any religion but don’t tell a hindu how to be a secular. We have it hardwired in us and we don’t waste too much time talking about religion, praying, cussing others for our miseries, killing people to defend our religion, beheading people quoting passage from our religious book.

    Save your energy to reform your communal community. I have a firm belief that muslims are always communal..the degree of communalism can vary depending on where they live. You have problems with Hindus (India), Christians (whole of west), Buddhists (Thailand), Sikhs (India), Jews (Israel). You are at war with whole world mostly for land. Islam is not a religion but a political ideology. This is the real problem.

    I have no issue with you personally but your continuous sermons to hindus is irritating. I suggest you look inwards towards your community and make them civillized.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    One should know when to stop. You have completely ignored whatever I have written above and restated you hate filled finger point afresh. And once again blaming me personally and ‘my kind’! :-D

    As a matter of fact you have had no answer for the super long post even further above where all these accusations that you are re-hashing have been already de-bunked! Then you thought you’ll test me and asked me to say something… I did and then you were at a loss… now you are confused on how to react and so have gone back to square one.

    Its such a pity that you spend all this energy and time telling people only how bad they are… and telling the wrong people at that… if you have so much conviction… grab a gun and go fight those Taliban idiots… or go live in Saudi Arabia and challenge a Mutawwa when you encounter one (like I already have) and then come and complain here!

    Secularism is hardwired into a lot of us Indians… you sadly seem to be an exception!

    faizan Reply:

    Oh rajeev,
    im really sorry if anywhere in this long discussion u beleive i offended u (i don’t think i ever did that), that was completely not my intention.
    im saying this because u sound hurt to me while u said “I have no problem with any religion but don’t tell a hindu how to be a secular”. was that the only logic u had??? to prove urself???
    and thats the reason u started the whole discussion again by pressing the reset button and going to all those allegations again.

    Good Bye
    Peace be upon you

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    Cut the ****..There are no secular muslims anywhere in the world..so stop deluding yourself.
    I again repeat, I am secular and that means if you respect my faith, I’ll respect yours.
    I have contributed with lot of positive idea. One of the idea is not to expect muslims to be secular and reciprocate the behaviour as they deserve. This tolerance, love and compassion can not be a one way street.
    I have nothing against you personally but your kind instead of sermonizing other should devote more time reforming fanatics like faizan.

    faizan,
    do you expect me to respond to low-life like you? You are not fit for any debate.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    You cut ****… I have met more Muslims than you I can be perfectly sure of that and there is no rational or logic by which they can all be tied down under the same allegation of being communal.

    You have a total mind block when it comes to Muslims and no matter what I or anyone else says… no matter the evidence to the contrary.. you will close your eyes and abuse your fellow citizens because they are muslims….

    What difference is there between you and the crazy mullas preaching jihad against the infidels then? Secularism doesn’t mean *** for tat… it a commitment to being non-biased… which YOU ARE NOT!

    “This tolerance, love and compassion can not be a one way street.”

    WHAT HYPOCRISY! Faizan has said the same things as I have… almost similar but you have done nothing but ridicule him and rubbish him and insult him because he is Muslim! And you talk about compassion! What a joke!

    “I have nothing against you personally but your kind instead of sermonizing other should devote more time reforming fanatics like faizan.”

    Sermonising others indeed! If anything doesn’t fit your pre-concieved model then its sermonising!

    And once again you say ‘your kind’… conveniently forgetting my kind don’t even give a squat about gods and the like… you are purposely repeating things now! No one can be this blind or incapable of reading and understanding! You have made up your mind to be insultive and judgemental about Muslims! And even muslim sounding people!

    I will not be typecast by you no matter how much you try!

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “I have contributed with lot of positive idea. One of the idea is not to expect muslims to be secular and reciprocate the behaviour as they deserve.”

    And your POSITIVE idea is to pre-judge and discriminate against random members of the muslim community??

    Wow… If that is not a contradiction then nothing is… how can anyone call that positive of all things and justify it?? :-p

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “There are no secular muslims anywhere in the world..so stop deluding yourself.”

    I can’t believe I forgot about this… TURKEY is the best example! Since 1923 their constitution guarantees secularism… FOUR coups by the military to stop Islamists from taking power! Street protest by muslims against Islamist government!

    Hahaha… I really should have brought this up earlier!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    In Turkey, govt. has enfoced secularism using military means. Scratch the surface of turkish society, they are as communal as Indian muslims..now with change in gaurd in turky, fundoo Islam is making a comeback…Even Central asian countries that were under communist rule never lost their fundoo islamic communalism.

    The muslims pretend to be secular under pressure but the core always remains same..i.e. communal.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Hahaha… fundoo Islam… hahaha… Kuch bhi!

    “Scratch the surface”… well I don’t know about you… But I’ve had the opportunity to know many turks and even be friends with a few… and they are something else… They have a legal option to be religion-less! That is incredible! Descendants of the Ottomans who gave up religion! How they can be communal is beyond rational…

    Central Asia… I know one Uzbek girl… and according to her… post Soviet Union… the new generation is split 50-50 between non-religion and embracing Islam due to new found religious freedom… So are they communal… well I think not…. confused… yup….

    The basic point is… no matter how exemplary a muslim society… its not good enough for YOU! Millions of people from East to West if Muslim are all the same and EVIL and you sitting in your little corner are right! :-D You are just nit-picking now and speculating… travel the world man… there is a lot more to it than Muslims and the art of hating them! :-p

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “In Turkey, govt. has enfoced secularism using military means.”

    HAHAHAHA… Please read Turkish History! That is the biggest joke! Shows how much you really know about these things! The Turkish government and military NEVER see eye to eye! They are always at each others throats due to this very issue!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I know my history well. It was Prophet Kemal Ataturk (PBUH) who forced secularism down the throat of turkish people.
    But things are changing fast in turkey, with new right wing govt. in, fundoo Islam is back on its feet in Turkey.

    It was a very pathetic attempt to prove muslim secualrism..You should have realised by now that secularism is rare comodity in muslim society.
    Give up and work honestly to reform your fellow fanatic muslims.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “I know my history well”

    Apparently not based on what you write…

    ” It was Prophet Kemal Ataturk (PBUH) who forced secularism down the throat of turkish people.”

    Prophet Ataturk! Haha… its pretty clear you don’t want to accept that you are generalising… and that you know no turkish people… anyway… so be it… You have run out of allegations now… if and when you get something real and substantial to discuss… I’ll be all happy to do so!

    Till then… try not to ruin the lives of your fellow countrymen with your wild thoughts!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    You muslims have wierd sense of history. The secularism in turkey is forced secularism that is fast eroding.

    I stand by what I said before..It is impossible for a muslim to be secular. You are one such proof. Your kind are another side of Islamic who are trying to achieve goal of Islamic dominance thru sugar coated words.

    If you ever get time, listen to prophet Wafa Sultan (PBUH) and Prophet Ali Sina(PBUH).

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Go on beating your drum for as long as you want… you right wing religious missionaries will forever stay blind believing only in the narrow passages of your ‘faith’ and the perceived will of your ‘gods’.

    You talk like every one of those terrorists who blame everything thats wrong with them on other people and then try to harm them by somehow thinking it to be the right thing. You are all the same…

    Keep repeating your mantra of hate and paranoia… how conveniently you ignore everything that doesn’t fit with your viewst… then reset your button and start all over again! :-D

    As for Wafa Whoever and Ali I-Donno… seems like you have heard them and are clearly inspired by them… hope you join them eventually in whatever cave they are preaching from! Because… only a fanatic listens to other fanatics! Try not to commit ‘jehadi’ suicide in India… we have enough troubles as it is… :-p

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I don’t have to prove my ideology. Our neighbor Pakistan is perfect example of how INDIAN muslims will behave if they become majority.
    You can bark as much as you want but Islam now stands exposed infront of whole world due to internet and ex-muslims like Prophet Wafa Sultan (SAW), Prophet Ali Sina (SAW) and many others.
    You have fooled world for 1400 years by saying that Islam is not understood as Quranic arabic can not be translated properly in languages of mortals. But that myth has been blasted by free flow of information. It is amply clear that Islam is political ideology laced with some ritualistic practices.
    It is time you waste less time here and convert your people to tolerant faiths. We are ready to treat you as equals and but ARE YOU READY TO TREAT US SAME WAY?

    I have had enough of your Kabootar logic. You think that bigots like you are the only one who know history, quran well..You think ex-muslims are all idiots. You people are convert so you are second class muslims. We would like to hear views of TRUE ex-muslims.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Your ideology is formed from the internet? Wow… good luck to you… such a fool proof medium the net is! :-D

    “You can bark as much as you want but Islam now stands exposed infront of whole world due to internet and ex-muslims like Prophet Wafa Sultan (SAW), Prophet Ali Sina (SAW) and many others.”

    Bark? Ooookayyyy…

    “You have fooled world for 1400 years by saying that Islam is not understood as Quranic arabic can not be translated properly in languages of mortals.”

    Show me one place I have said that you stupid stupid child…

    “It is amply clear that Islam is political ideology laced with some ritualistic practices.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHA… show me one religion that is not! I’ve been saying the bloody thing for ages! But… why will you read that? You can’t see beyond my name… and the funny thing still is (i have been cracking up on it for days) that you still think I’m Muslim… All your rants are so focussed on that presumption that you’ve forced yourself to repeat the same things over and over again! :-D

    “We are ready to treat you as equals and but ARE YOU READY TO TREAT US SAME WAY?”

    What are you an infant? Don’t you understand English? Read what I have been writing… between the two of us I have been the only one not dissing people based on some random belief of theirs! I say “religion sucks look beyond it” you keep saying “you are a muslim and you are evil”… and now you again start the same thing… What is the matter with you? Is it like a book you read which tells you to blast off something new into the air everytime you come across someone you think is a muslim? What place do you live that you’ve had so little interaction with minorities?

    Why don’t you go to that Sufi shrine you visit and then say all this that you’ve been saying for weeks to me… we’ll see then who is more civilised about it… me or them… tell me how it went if you survive! :-p

    “I have had enough of your Kabootar logic. ”

    Fine… keep believing in God if you have to!

    ” You think that bigots like you are the only one who know history, quran well”

    I do know history well… I’ve never said anything about the Quran because frankly I got bored after page 7 (and that was the english version) so you are making that up and lying and I really never said anything about ex-muslims! I know many and they are good friends… so you are lying again…

    “You people are convert so you are second class muslims.”

    HAHAHA… okay… supposing I am muslim then show me one muslim who isn’t a convert… IN HISTORY… or show me one Christian who wasn’t a convert… since Jesus… show me one Hindu who isn’t a convert… Since before Indus Valley Civilisation… show me one Sikh who is not a convert… hell.. even Jews are converts! EVERY RELIGION IS A CREATION OF MAN YOU IDIOT! EVERYONE IS A CONVERT!

    From Paganism to Abrahamic to Scientology and other nonsense… its all been created by people like you who want to believe in something that doesn’t exist! GOD! GODS! THE CREATOR!

    YOU are obsessed with religion! And its people like you who are bigots!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I am obessed with religion!!! That’s news to me.

    I think I hate about muslims is that they think about religion all the time. I am of the firm belief that people who waste their time worshipping are full of guilt and they think worship is shortcut to get rid of guilt.

    I am not at all interested in religios side of Islam. I have been writing about political side of Islam which is the cause of all the hatred that we see today.

    As far as my interaction with muslims is concerned, I lived in muslim majority city, went to college with them, even had some co-workers who were muslims but at the end of the day, I realised that all muslims are cut from same cloth. It is not in their genes to reciprocate respect.

    You can live in your make-believe world but reality is quite different. It is time world forces muslims to take a crictical look on Quran and basically not follow outdated practices. Even hindus and christians have lot of **** in their scripture but they have moved on. I have absolute hatred for priest class that dominates all religions including hinduism. We have been able to make SOME progress in getting rid of ourselves from priests but muslims blindly follow friday Khutba and create mayhem.

    I have no problem with Islam minus politics plus respect for other faiths.

    I don’t think I need to convince you anymore.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Now you have completely changed your tone… Anyhow… one contradiction…

    First you say this…

    “I am not at all interested in religios side of Islam. I have been writing about political side of Islam which is the cause of all the hatred that we see today.”

    Then you say this…

    “It is time world forces muslims to take a crictical look on Quran and basically not follow outdated practices. ”

    So its both political and religious isn’t it? But thats fine… its your perspective…

    ” I lived in muslim majority city, went to college with them, even had some co-workers who were muslims but at the end of the day, I realised that all muslims are cut from same cloth. It is not in their genes to reciprocate respect.”

    Pray tell what city is this because I would love to go and see this place where you could not find one decent muslim person… As far as I can tell Rajeev… and in all honesty… I’m not trying to diss you…. many times you have dismissed perfectly normal things even here with regards to muslims… so could it not be… ATLEAST TO A CERTAIN EXTENT that YOU might not have been able to see their respect or understand them… Won’t you even admit to the possibility? Its not completely impossible…

    “You can live in your make-believe world but reality is quite different. ”

    Really what are you talking about?? Between the two of us I am the only one ho doesn’t believe in this magical world of gods and scriptures and prophets and avatars and karma and what not… So where is my make-believe world? I tread along without one… and yet for some reason I am still abused for it…

    “I don’t think I need to convince you anymore.”

    We stand fundamentally apart of this… and all I ask is not to multiply mis-conceptions and generalisations! It not going to help ANYONE!

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I have not changed my tone. I have been continuously focussing on political side of Islam.
    What is the need for discussing politics in mosque? The current violence in Kashmir is fueled by sermons given in mosques.
    I wish muslims look at political stuff in Quran and not follow it anymore. Those things may have been valid for 6th or 7th century world. I really don’t care if muslims pray 50 times a day or go for hajj every week. It is their religious right but I am against them setting political agenda in a country where they are minority.

    I have done my Junior high from a muslim college in Pune. I have seen muslims very closely when they are in MAJORITY. Their behaviour is totally different when they are in minority.
    So basically you can find good muslims (Pretenders) where they are in small number but in their majority, muslims try to dominate every aspect of life.

    The example is Kashmir valley, Areas of Assam and Kerela.

    Living in denial is not going to help ANYONE. It is time we become pragmatic and face the problem head on. By this I mean that we should nudge SCARED liberal muslims communalists to reform their society . The like of Zakir Naik are filling muslims with sense of supermacy and it can hurt in long run.

    If muslims were tolerant, we would never have had partition followed by 63 years of bloodshed in kashmir and other parts of India.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Agree with the whole ‘muslims should get upto date’ part… also agree with Muslims dominate when in majority… but that I’ve seen in all communities… Hindus… Christians and even between Shia and Sunni Muslims… all to some extend… thats a pitfall of religious identity…

    But now please answer this…

    “Living in denial is not going to help ANYONE. ”

    WHAT DENIAL AM I LIVING IN?? I have been hammering after you for only one thing… DON’T GENERALISE AND PRE-JUDGE ANYONE… be it muslims… christians or other Hindus… and you have again done it twice this time… examples…

    “So basically you can find good muslims (Pretenders) where they are in small number ”

    and

    “By this I mean that we should nudge SCARED liberal muslims communalists to reform their society”

    I don’t understand this… when you have already decided that they are evil and communal and un-trustworthy then you have already passed a judgement on them! You will NEVER trust them! NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY BECOME YOU WILL ALWAYS TAG THEM AS ‘PRETENDERS’ or ‘COMMUNALISTS’… That my friend is YOUR short-coming!

    I know many Indians from all over the place… know communal ones as well from many faiths… But I have never met any community or religion or group of people who are all exactly the same or can be put in a bracket and generalised…

    “If muslims were tolerant, we would never have had partition followed by 63 years of bloodshed in kashmir and other parts of India.”

    HAHAHA… that has got to the MOST SIMPLISTIC analysis of the partition… If only it was that black and white! And as for 63 years of violence… Don’t we have a Maoist violence problem today? Are the Nagas not fighting with the Manipuris? Did Hindus not kill Sikhs in ‘84?

    How simply you blame muslims for all our problems… some muslim sections are responsible for many no doubt… as are so many other religions and regions… but to blame them all is just as stupid to blame all Hindus for Gujarat in 2002.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    You have given justification for muslim actions (partition, riots, terror) etc. by eauating it with Godhra etc.

    But tell me why are muslims indulging in terorr acts all over the world? I don’t think they are doing that for babri, godhra or sikh massacre (done by congress goons).

    You have conviniently put blame of 1984 sikh massacre on hindus forgetting that it was planned and executed by congressis under the leadership of Rajiv Gandhi. Even muslims took part in looting and rioting against sikhs in kanpur.

    I am not generalising but speaking the truth which is ONLY VALID for muslims. Most of the other communities have good balance of liberal and fundoos but muslim community is largely fundoo.

    By the way India is yet to become Hindu republic inspite of being 80% HINDU whereas 85% muslim dominated bangaldesh, 60% muslim dominated Malasia are islamic republic.

    Non-muslims do not behave like muslims when in majority. I was watching a debate on kashmir problem yesterday, the kashmiri muslims dominate the debate not allowing dissenting minority voice. They only allowed one minority person to speak as he was supportive of them due to some vested interested. I wish to ask you are kashmiri muslims the only true kashmiris. The original inhabitant of Kashmir are hindu pundits and they have been chased out. You will never hear fundoo muslims talking about rights of minority in valley. WHY? Why do inhabitant of 15% of J&K want to hijack 100% of J&K in the name of religion.

    We can tackle christian fundoo, hindu fundoos because they do not carry bible or gita in their hands and justify every massacre whereas as muslims hides their misdeeds behind Quran.

    There are good muslims only when they are in minority..and that is a fact.
    Show me one muslim majority country where non-muslims are enjoying equal rights.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    Hufffff…. You have hit the reset button again…

    “You have given justification for muslim actions (partition, riots, terror) etc. by eauating it with Godhra etc.”

    No i have not… just giving examples…

    “But tell me why are muslims indulging in terorr acts all over the world? I don’t think they are doing that for babri, godhra or sikh massacre (done by congress goons).”

    There are muslim radicals like there are Sikh radicals and Hindu radicals… and radicals are anti-social… criminal… and blowing up locally is just as bad as blowing up internationally… people get killed both ways! One is not lesser than the other…

    And bravo for blaming the Sikh massacre on one party… its as dumb as people thinking only BJP functionaries carried out the carnage in Gujarat…

    “You have conviniently put blame of 1984 sikh massacre on hindus forgetting that it was planned and executed by congressis under the leadership of Rajiv Gandhi. Even muslims took part in looting and rioting against sikhs in kanpur.”

    So what does that mean? The murderers were ‘congress men’ but not Hindu? And in Kanpur Hindus didn’t kill Sikhs? Whats the point?

    “I am not generalising but speaking the truth which is ONLY VALID for muslims. Most of the other communities have good balance of liberal and fundoos but muslim community is largely fundoo.”

    Thats a full reset and your personal bias…

    “By the way India is yet to become Hindu republic inspite of being 80% HINDU whereas 85% muslim dominated bangaldesh, 60% muslim dominated Malasia are islamic republic.”

    Why do you compare us with the loser states? If they want to cut their own legs by being religious republics then should we also?! The best countries in the world are Secular democracies… LIKE WE ALREADY ARE! So.. again… whats the point?

    “Non-muslims do not behave like muslims when in majority. I was watching a debate on kashmir problem yesterday, the kashmiri muslims dominate the debate not allowing dissenting minority voice. They only allowed one minority person to speak as he was supportive of them due to some vested interested. I wish to ask you are kashmiri muslims the only true kashmiris. The original inhabitant of Kashmir are hindu pundits and they have been chased out. You will never hear fundoo muslims talking about rights of minority in valley. WHY? Why do inhabitant of 15% of J&K want to hijack 100% of J&K in the name of religion.”

    WHAT NONSENSE! I saw the debate as well! After a long time many Kashmiris were talking like Indians and not just Kashmiris! Sure a few were still stuck in a zone but overall there was consensus on reconciliation and action for peace and security!

    And while that is being discussed… yesterday at Jantar Mantar Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandit were protesting separately against government action in Kashmir… The Muslim group invited the Pandits to sit with them and protest together as equal Kashmiris… to show solidarity… the Pandit group refused and charged at the muslim group calling them anti-national and Pak sympathisers! They were all asking for the same thing… So what is the meaning of that?

    How will the pandits be able to return if they can’t make friends with the people who are like them and can help re-conciliation? The effort has to be made from both sides!

    “We can tackle christian fundoo, hindu fundoos because they do not carry bible or gita in their hands and justify every massacre whereas as muslims hides their misdeeds behind Quran.”

    HAHAHA… now who is deluding himself?! So what do they do it for if not religion? Loony Toones?! HAHAHA

    Do have made up your mind and will keep going in circles saying the same thing over and over again… I’ve given examples and reasons still you wanna argue so fine… keep at it… keep judging people…

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,
    I guess it was you who reset the button first.
    Yes, there is hindu radicals, sikh radicals, xtian radicals but they don’t have international presence like muslim terorrits and are not unified like muslim radicals.

    Yes, The sikh massacre was carried out by Congressis alone..That’s a fact.

    I am not comparing India with loser nations but nations with muslim majority.

    You mean to say that Kashmiri pundits should become anti-India like kashmiri muslims and show their solidarity.

    You are going around in circles almost sounding like muslim apologist. I am asking you a very simple question, why do muslims want to dominate when in majority? Why are they alwasys itching for separation? Why do they resort to violence as their first option? Why don’t they show equal respect for other faiths? The problem with you is that you are delusional.
    All I am asking you is to use your energy more towards reforming your community. Leave other communities to their own people.

    I am not judging people nor I am generalising. All I am saying is that there are good muslims when they are in minority but they turn fundoo when they are among their majority. You are posting all these armchair arguements because you have not seen the truth and I guess you don’t want to see it.

    Have you seen any other community chopping off hand or head of a person for committing blasphemy? Only one community does that. ‘MUSLIMS’.

    You have enough proof of muslim intolerance infront of you. As far as I am concerned, I have decided that I will reciprocate love and tolerance who deserve it.

    Rajeev Reply:

    As far as discussion on kashmir is concerned, I guess you were watching that program with your sympthies for muslim separatists. The kashmiri muslims were dominating that discussion giving very less room to voices of non-muslim kashmiris.

    The kashmir struggle is purely Islamic in nature due to two major reasons-
    1. All the Separatists are muslims. There is not a single non-muslim kashmiri that supports separation.
    2. All the slogans used by kashmiris are Islamic ‘Naare taqbeer Allah ho akbar’.

    It was never a secular struggle so why do you expect non-muslims to give up their stand and support separatists. This is your muslim thinking that you have expressed. Why should non-muslim kashmiris support separatist muslims?

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    “Yes, there is hindu radicals, sikh radicals, xtian radicals but they don’t have international presence like muslim terorrits and are not unified like muslim radicals.”

    Wow… what awesome logic… so then international presence is dangerous but local presence is not?? And as for your not unified argument… the VHP and RSS chapters in the US are the biggest donors of money to these organisations… with the recent ‘local’ terrorist activities here… one wonders if some of that money was used to kill Indians…

    “Yes, The sikh massacre was carried out by Congressis alone..That’s a fact.”

    So the congress people are what? Not hindu? yea there are other faiths as well… but are there no Hindu??

    “You mean to say that Kashmiri pundits should become anti-India like kashmiri muslims and show their solidarity.”

    AHA! There is your hypocrisy! You people cry horse saying how pandits were chased away and when one group of muslims tries to extend an olive branch and find common ground then you call them anti-national. How conveniently you declare all Kashmiri Muslims anti-India… and then you claim there is no bias!

    “You are going around in circles almost sounding like muslim apologist.”

    HERE you go trying to club me again… if thats not a reset then what is?!

    “why do muslims want to dominate when in majority?”

    They don’t…

    “Why are they alwasys itching for separation?”

    They are not…

    “Why do they resort to violence as their first option?”

    HAHAHA… really… from the land of RSS, Bajrang Dal, SIMI, Shiv Sena and Muslim League you are asking why violence only to one side?? :-D

    “Why don’t they show equal respect for other faiths?”

    Why don’t you??

    “The problem with you is that you are delusional.”

    Please tell me how… you are one who actually believes in God and religion!

    “All I am asking you is to use your energy more towards reforming your community. Leave other communities to their own people.”

    I’m bothered with India… thats my community… not going to clubbed into one by people like you want to do ‘us’ and ‘them’!

    “I am not judging people nor I am generalising. ”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :-D HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    “anti-India Kashmiri Muslims”, “Fundoo Muslims”, “Muslims can never be secular”, “Only Congress killed Sikhs”, “Your kind”

    HAHAHAHA! Need i go on??

    “Have you seen any other community chopping off hand or head of a person for committing blasphemy? ”

    Actually yea! Graham Stains and his two boys were burnt to death in Orissa for being christian missionaries (for some reason even the kids) by Bajrang Dal terrorists!

    “You have enough proof of muslim intolerance infront of you”

    Oh yea… the rest you promptly ignore!

    ” I guess you were watching that program with your sympthies for muslim separatists. ”

    I was watching the program with sympathies to the people of a region that we as Indians are being unfair to…

    “The kashmir struggle is purely Islamic in nature due to two major reasons-”

    AND THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU! AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE KIDS ON THE SHOW WERE SAYING! This is NOT about independence… why will they ask for independence if you make them an equal democratic partner? Don’t they want to be happy?? (the words used by the Kashmiri boy) ITS ABOUT BEING GIVEN THAT RESPECT AS A INDIAN!

    We don’t treat them the same! We treat them like those animals that cross the border and blow themselves up… they are stuck between the terrorists and armed forces and the rest of India treats them like terrorists! they are called ANTI-INDIA by people like you!

    If you are taunted for 20 years and called a terrorist and anti-india by Indians would you not also then want to throw a stone at the forces that follow orders from Delhi?

    “All the slogans used by kashmiris are Islamic ‘Naare taqbeer Allah ho akbar’.”

    Atleast they are not saying ‘Pakistan Zindabad’

    “It was never a secular struggle so why do you expect non-muslims to give up their stand and support separatists. ”

    ITS NOT ABOUT SUPPORTING SEPARATISTS… BUT FELLOW KASKHMIRIS AT A TIME OF CRISIS! Thats your communal thinking! Do you even know a Kashmiri? There are many here in Delhi and none that I know are separatists! So I wonder what you are talking about!

    “This is your muslim thinking that you have expressed.”

    Still confused by my name! HAHAHAHAHA!

    Rajeev if you have anything new and not communal then please do write back… but if you are again going to start with ‘me’ and ‘my kind’ and ‘fundoo Islam’ (what does that even mean) and what not then please don’t bother… we have covered the same things many times over and its clear your bias is institutionalised!

    I’d rather focus on the positives…

    Rajeev Reply:

    Ahmer,

    ‘Wow… what awesome logic… so then international presence is dangerous but local presence is not?? And as for your not unified argument… the VHP and RSS chapters in the US are the biggest donors of money to these organisations… with the recent ‘local’ terrorist activities here… one wonders if some of that money was used to kill Indians…’

    But RSS and VHP do not go around blowing up people in west. What I meant was that muslims have problem with everyone in every corner of globe. So there is something fundamentally wrong with muslim psyche.

    ‘So the congress people are what? Not hindu? yea there are other faiths as well… but are there no Hindu??’
    The congress people were rioting as congressis not hindus. No one was raising slogans like ‘Har har mahadev’ while killing sikhs. Infact battle cry was very congressi in nature invoking name of slain leader.

    ‘AHA! There is your hypocrisy! You people cry horse saying how pandits were chased away and when one group of muslims tries to extend an olive branch and find common ground then you call them anti-national. How conveniently you declare all Kashmiri Muslims anti-India… and then you claim there is no bias!’

    There is no hypocrisy here. Infact you are presenting a very hypocritical arguement. The muslims were extending olive branch to pundits so that they will support them against Indian state. What kind of olive branch is that? Where was this olive branch when pundits were chased away from valley following instructions from mosques’ loud speakers.

    I want to ask you why inhabitant of valley want to impose their will on Jammu, Ladakh and non-muslim valley inhabitant. Why should J&K not be divided on pro-India and anti-India areas? The valley is just approx 25% of total area of J&K and inhabitant of these 25% area can not hijack 100% J&K.

    Show me one muslim majority area where muslims DON”T dominate. Please stay away from making irrational statements.

    [“Why are they alwasys itching for separation?”
    'They are not…']

    Show me one muslim majority area that is not working against the state to achieve separation. You are now lying thru your teeth bordering on shamelessness.

    [HAHAHA… really… from the land of RSS, Bajrang Dal, SIMI, Shiv Sena and Muslim League you are asking why violence only to one side?? ]

    Please answer the question. Why do muslims resort to violence as FIRST option?

    [“Why don’t they show equal respect for other faiths?”
    Why don’t you??]

    That is not the answer. Most of the hindus show respect for Islam but it is never reciprocated. You are ducking the difficult question. This shows how sincere you are.

    [“The problem with you is that you are delusional.”
    Please tell me how… you are one who actually believes in God and religion!]

    Wow!!! what an answer. I must say that I was wrong in calling you delusional. You are a master liar and a shameless one. When did I say that I believe in God or religion? You are the one defending people who f*ck shit out of god 5 times a day.

    [I’m bothered with India… thats my community… not going to clubbed into one by people like you want to do ‘us’ and ‘them’!]

    What a statement…a nice refuge for liars. We all are Indians but that does not absolve us from educating our community to behave as responsible citizens.

    [“I am not judging people nor I am generalising. ”
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!]

    That doesn’t make any sense. It reminds me of Aishwarya rai who kept giggling in her 60 minutes interview. When asked about her awkward behavior, she said she was hiding her nervousness. What are you hiding.

    [“anti-India Kashmiri Muslims”, “Fundoo Muslims”, “Muslims can never be secular”, “Only Congress killed Sikhs”, “Your kind”
    HAHAHAHA! Need i go on??]
    I never said all muslims are anti-India..most of them are pro-India but most of them are rank communal including yourself. Again you do Aish act.

    [“Have you seen any other community chopping off hand or head of a person for committing blasphemy? ”
    Actually yea! Graham Stains and his two boys were burnt to death in Orissa for being christian missionaries (for some reason even the kids) by Bajrang Dal terrorists!]

    You conviniently ignore BLASPHEMY. Read my question again and answer it. The Bajarang Dal terrorist is behind bar for his crime but do we see muslims who killed pundits or muslims who killed xtians behind bar.

    [“You have enough proof of muslim intolerance infront of you”
    Oh yea… the rest you promptly ignore!]

    Please show me instances where muslim in majority have been tolerant of other faiths. You seek converts but when someone tries to convert you, you call him Wajib-Ul-Qatl.

    [” I guess you were watching that program with your sympthies for muslim separatists. ”
    I was watching the program with sympathies to the people of a region that we as Indians are being unfair to…]

    I knew that you are one of those separatist sympathiser. How Indians have been unfair to Kashmiris? They have killed Indians in thousand and you say we have been unfair. India will never allow another partition on religion that you have been hoping for.

    [“The kashmir struggle is purely Islamic in nature due to two major reasons-”
    AND THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU! AND THATS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE KIDS ON THE SHOW WERE SAYING! This is NOT about independence… why will they ask for independence if you make them an equal democratic partner? Don’t they want to be happy?? (the words used by the Kashmiri boy) ITS ABOUT BEING GIVEN THAT RESPECT AS A INDIAN!]

    Then why did they chase out Hindus out of the Valley..Why is that they invoke Islam while fighting Indian soldiers. They are not asking for equality etc. They are asking for merger with pakistan (based on two-nation theory) or an independent ISLAMIC state where non-muslims have no place. They want total control over 75% of the remaining land where they are not the majority. They do not consider themselves Indians because for them being Indian is hindu and being pakistani is muslim.

    [We don’t treat them the same! We treat them like those animals that cross the border and blow themselves up… they are stuck between the terrorists and armed forces and the rest of India treats them like terrorists! they are called ANTI-INDIA by people like you!]

    They are not asking for equal treatment. Infact article 370 makes them more special than rest of Indians. The problem is that muslims of that state want to dominate over everyone else in the state. We need to learn from pakistan and china on how to deal with these azadi seeking hooligans but India is populated by people like you. It is time Kashmir valley is isolated and taken care pakistani style once and for all.

    [If you are taunted for 20 years and called a terrorist and anti-india by Indians would you not also then want to throw a stone at the forces that follow orders from Delhi?]

    Who asked them to start anti-India insurgency in 1987? I elections were rigged, they could have protested and brought down the govt. When they call Indians DOG, chant pro-pakisn slogans ‘Kashmir banega pakistan’, what should we call them?

    [“All the slogans used by kashmiris are Islamic ‘Naare taqbeer Allah ho akbar’.”
    Atleast they are not saying ‘Pakistan Zindabad’]

    Who told you that they don’t say ‘PAKISTAN ZINDABAD’? Wait for 14th Aug. and you will get your answer.

    [“It was never a secular struggle so why do you expect non-muslims to give up their stand and support separatists. ”
    ITS NOT ABOUT SUPPORTING SEPARATISTS… BUT FELLOW KASKHMIRIS AT A TIME OF CRISIS! Thats your communal thinking! Do you even know a Kashmiri? There are many here in Delhi and none that I know are separatists! So I wonder what you are talking about!]

    You are wrong here. The kashmiri insurgency is Islamic and has no space for non-muslim kashmiris. You are defending communals and you have cheek to call other communal. Who was afzal guru? He was living in delhi at the time of parliament attack and he is/was totally anti-India. There are thousands of Kashmiri muslims living all across India who are anti-India. Yes, there may be minority that are pro-India but their number is very small. I have lived in Kashmir..My father was posted in Rajauri..so you don’t teach me what is kashmir. I have been to every corner of India and seen things frst hand unlike you who keep lecturing people without knowing the situation on the ground.

    [“This is your muslim thinking that you have expressed.”
    Still confused by my name! HAHAHAHAHA!]

    You behave like one..

    Ahmer, if you continue to defend communal muslims, you can keep on going while people get beheaded, arms get chopped off, women forced into burqa, Indian forces being pelted with stones, bombs going off…for you all these are acts of secularism.

    I also want o focus on positive but with people like you who defend negative, how can I ignore people like you. I am pretty sure that you don’t believe even 50% of what you have been posting but you have to argue to convince yourself that MUSLIMS are secular.

    Ahmer Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    I have never seen a more mis-guided rebuttal but since you have taken out time let me apprise you…

    “But RSS and VHP do not go around blowing up people in west. What I meant was that muslims have problem with everyone in every corner of globe. So there is something fundamentally wrong with muslim psyche.”

    So not blowing up Muslims in the west makes them ok? What rational is this that one group of terrorists is more acceptable than another? This is the same line that Geelani types pelt when the disguise terrorists as freedom fighter!

    “The congress people were rioting as congressis not hindus. No one was raising slogans like ‘Har har mahadev’ while killing sikhs. Infact battle cry was very congressi in nature invoking name of slain leader.”

    HAHAHAHA… oh… sorry… you think thats Aishwariya Rai sorts… oh no wait… she giggles… heeheee… i’m LAUGHING AT YOUR JOKES! You are just trying to rationalise once again evil acts done by a few nut cases who happened to be Hindu… thats a shame…

    “There is no hypocrisy here. Infact you are presenting a very hypocritical arguement. The muslims were extending olive branch to pundits so that they will support them against Indian state. What kind of olive branch is that? Where was this olive branch when pundits were chased away from valley following instructions from mosques’ loud speakers.”

    So there is no scope of rapprochement then? So who has to ‘extend the olive branch’ for the Kashmiri Pandits to take it seriously?

    “I want to ask you why inhabitant of valley want to impose their will on Jammu, Ladakh and non-muslim valley inhabitant. Why should J&K not be divided on pro-India and anti-India areas? The valley is just approx 25% of total area of J&K and inhabitant of these 25% area can not hijack 100% J&K.”

    Wow… you ask me? Well since I am the high lord of Kashmir I would know of such things! Oh no wait… you think I’m Muslim… maybe thats why I would know of such things! Hmmm…

    And divide J&K?? Are you nuts?! When in all of OUR HISTORY has DIVIDING regions EVER WORKED OUT?? You want to make the same mistake again??

    “Show me one muslim majority area where muslims DON”T dominate. Please stay away from making irrational statements.”

    Old Delhi, Parts of Old Meerut are two examples…

    “Show me one muslim majority area that is not working against the state to achieve separation. You are now lying thru your teeth bordering on shamelessness.”

    Awww… really? Am I? Well again… Old Delhi and Meerut would be two examples… I’m sorry is truth means shamelessness for you… I’d rather be shameless than hateful! :-p

    “Please answer the question. Why do muslims resort to violence as FIRST option?

    That is not the answer. Most of the hindus show respect for Islam but it is never reciprocated. You are ducking the difficult question. This shows how sincere you are.”

    YOu are joking right? Not only are you making sweeping generalisation about Muslims now you are making about Hindus too? Like not all Muslims are the same not all Hindus are the same either… as for responding with violence FIRST… well you really have to be blind or oblivious to to facts to be able to believe in something like this! And its identical to what this friend of mine (not muslim or christian) said… he said according to him Hindus have become insecure with regards to religion and respond to everything with violence now… I told him the same thing I’m telling you…

    Thats just stupid!

    “Wow!!! what an answer. I must say that I was wrong in calling you delusional. You are a master liar and a shameless one. When did I say that I believe in God or religion? You are the one defending people who f*ck shit out of god 5 times a day.”

    Oh yes… I did my masters in Master Lying… but not f*c-ing shit… you are familiar with that??

    “What a statement…a nice refuge for liars. We all are Indians but that does not absolve us from educating our community to behave as responsible citizens.”

    Thats the contradiction… we are Indians… we should not have sub-communities! THATS WHY I SAY RELIGION IS BAD!

    “That doesn’t make any sense. It reminds me of Aishwarya rai who kept giggling in her 60 minutes interview. When asked about her awkward behavior, she said she was hiding her nervousness. What are you hiding.

    I never said all muslims are anti-India..most of them are pro-India but most of them are rank communal including yourself. Again you do Aish act.”

    That statement means that you are a hypocrite who thinks of himself as fair and secular but then says all those nasty things I gave as example… and then you give one more here…
    “[but most of them are rank communal including yourself.]” – HAHAHAHA… yes thats laughing!

    “You conviniently ignore BLASPHEMY. Read my question again and answer it. The Bajarang Dal terrorist is behind bar for his crime but do we see muslims who killed pundits or muslims who killed xtians behind bar.”

    No! I did not ignore blasphemy… Dara Singh (the culprit) said it was this very reason that he did it… gee… read about it! And also read up on the hand chopping case! They have already made progress and put those muslims behind bars!

    “Please show me instances where muslim in majority have been tolerant of other faiths. You seek converts but when someone tries to convert you, you call him Wajib-Ul-Qatl”

    TURKEY TURKEY TURKEY! :-D and I donno what Wajib-ul-something is…. are you making up words??

    “I knew that you are one of those separatist sympathiser. How Indians have been unfair to Kashmiris? They have killed Indians in thousand and you say we have been unfair. India will never allow another partition on religion that you have been hoping for.”

    HAHAHA… again… you call them separatists when they are only asking for equality! And then you say thousands of INdians have been killed… well aren’t Kashmiri Indians too? You only want to keep the land minus the people! Its all ego now!

    “Then why did they chase out Hindus out of the Valley..Why is that they invoke Islam while fighting Indian soldiers. They are not asking for equality etc. They are asking for merger with pakistan (based on two-nation theory) or an independent ISLAMIC state where non-muslims have no place. They want total control over 75% of the remaining land where they are not the majority. They do not consider themselves Indians because for them being Indian is hindu and being pakistani is muslim.”

    Did the average Kashmiri chase out or was it the infiltration and the foreign funded local group that targeted them? Complete mis-understanding of ground realities…

    “They are not asking for equal treatment. Infact article 370 makes them more special than rest of Indians. The problem is that muslims of that state want to dominate over everyone else in the state. We need to learn from pakistan and china on how to deal with these azadi seeking hooligans but India is populated by people like you. It is time Kashmir valley is isolated and taken care pakistani style once and for all.”

    HAHAHA! HOW BLIND ARE YOU! Ofcourse they are asking for equal treatment! Article 370 does not make it a better place to be at than Delhi or Bombay or Bangalore! And what do you suggest? We cut off Kashmir valley and perpetrate genocide to satisfy your blood thirst?? Then lets surround all muslim areas and kill them also! Wow what a grand solution! Then surely the Kashmiris will love us!

    “Who asked them to start anti-India insurgency in 1987? I elections were rigged, they could have protested and brought down the govt. When they call Indians DOG, chant pro-pakisn slogans ‘Kashmir banega pakistan’, what should we call them?”

    ‘Insurgency’ was not started by locals! But later… some did join! What would you do if you were crushed between heavily armed foreign militant and security forces? Both eager to kill you?? Protest and bring down the government?! HA! Such a statement can only be made by a person sitting in a city where he enjoys all the freedoms and rights of India!

    “Who told you that they don’t say ‘PAKISTAN ZINDABAD’? Wait for 14th Aug. and you will get your answer.”

    Okay!

    “You are wrong here. The kashmiri insurgency is Islamic and has no space for non-muslim kashmiris. You are defending communals and you have cheek to call other communal. Who was afzal guru? He was living in delhi at the time of parliament attack and he is/was totally anti-India. There are thousands of Kashmiri muslims living all across India who are anti-India. Yes, there may be minority that are pro-India but their number is very small. I have lived in Kashmir..My father was posted in Rajauri..so you don’t teach me what is kashmir. I have been to every corner of India and seen things frst hand unlike you who keep lecturing people without knowing the situation on the ground.”

    Oh please! My family has also been posted to Kashmir multiple times… besides I was not talking about the insurgency… but about the protests against shooting civilians… I think there is scope in that… I wonder what your reaction would be if Hindu kids were shot by CRPF for throwing stones at them in your city??

    As for Afzal Guru… he is like Col. Purohit… Indian but anti-national… it’ll be stupid to think Indians are immune to radicalisation…

    “You behave like one..”

    You mind makes you want to believe that…

    “Ahmer, if you continue to defend communal muslims, you can keep on going while people get beheaded, arms get chopped off, women forced into burqa, Indian forces being pelted with stones, bombs going off…for you all these are acts of secularism.”

    If thats what you think I’ve been doing then its high time you read the last 50 posts again! :-p

    “I also want o focus on positive but with people like you who defend negative, how can I ignore people like you. I am pretty sure that you don’t believe even 50% of what you have been posting but you have to argue to convince yourself that MUSLIMS are secular.”

    Hahaha… sure thing Rajeev… A person who passes judgement constantly on people and then declares he looks for positives! Hahaha… sure… knock yourself out!

    Sam Reply:

    @Rajiv
    why are you wasting your time in arguing closet jihadists ?
    most of the outwardly secular muslims, spend all their time in finding faults with secular societies (or hindus in India)..

    they are drunk on islamism (but deny being drunk) and hate secularism.

    they never contribute to make the society better, all they do is think of bringing down other people..
    all they think and talk is constant criticism, if the society is not 100% islamic.

    please stop wasting your time, with behind-the-doors izlamist and possibly verbal jihadist.

    Rajeev Reply:

    @Rajeev,

    I have never seen a more half-heated and illogical rebuttal but since you have taken out time let me apprise you…

    [So not blowing up Muslims in the west makes them ok? What rational is this that one group of terrorists is more acceptable than another? This is the same line that Geelani types pelt when the disguise terrorists as freedom fighter!]

    Read again..In simple words ‘Muslim terrorism is more widespread than others and all are working towards one goal..i.e. destabilising host country and holding supermacy of Islam.

    [HAHAHAHA… oh… sorry… you think thats Aishwariya Rai sorts… oh no wait… she giggles… heeheee… i’m LAUGHING AT YOUR JOKES! You are just trying to rationalise once again evil acts done by a few nut cases who happened to be Hindu… thats a shame… ]

    No all these nutcases were secular congressis like you. Whether you do HA HA or HEE HEE, you are illogical and not honest in your arguements..

    [So there is no scope of rapprochement then? So who has to ‘extend the olive branch’ for the Kashmiri Pandits to take it seriously?]

    With your dishonest arguements, there can never be repproachment. You are refusing to accept the truth and are making up fake arguements.

    [Wow… you ask me? Well since I am the high lord of Kashmir I would know of such things! Oh no wait… you think I’m Muslim… maybe thats why I would know of such things! Hmmm…]

    As I said, you behave like one or you may be one of those muslim fearing secular hindu.

    [And divide J&K?? Are you nuts?! When in all of OUR HISTORY has DIVIDING regions EVER WORKED OUT?? You want to make the same mistake again??]

    Punjab was divided into punjab, Haryana and Himachal. It has worked till now except for Khalistani nautanki ably supported by muslims across the border. The division of madras residency, Bombay residency has worked well.

    [Old Delhi, Parts of Old Meerut are two examples…]

    You are talking of Mohallas..Try doing anything un-islamic in these areas, your secular arse will be ripped open.

    [Awww… really? Am I? Well again… Old Delhi and Meerut would be two examples… I’m sorry is truth means shamelessness for you… I’d rather be shameless than hateful! :-p]

    Again dishonest arguement..I am talking about regions not Mohallas..This is another muslim trait to lie shamelessly.

    [YOu are joking right? Not only are you making sweeping generalisation about Muslims now you are making about Hindus too? Like not all Muslims are the same not all Hindus are the same either… as for responding with violence FIRST… well you really have to be blind or oblivious to to facts to be able to believe in something like this! And its identical to what this friend of mine (not muslim or christian) said… he said according to him Hindus have become insecure with regards to religion and respond to everything with violence now… I told him the same thing I’m telling you…]

    This is not the generalisation. The muslims resort to violence as first option.
    How many times have you seen muslim visting hindu shrines? and compare that to how many times have you seen hindus visiting Dargahs. That should give you answer to your question.

    [Oh yes… I did my masters in Master Lying… but not f*c-ing shit… you are familiar with that??]

    Your reply shows the true character..You have nothing to say as your lies have no logic.

    [Thats the contradiction… we are Indians… we should not have sub-communities! THATS WHY I SAY RELIGION IS BAD!]

    The reality is somewhat different. The 99% indians like you are Indian last and others first.

    [“[but most of them are rank communal including yourself.]” – HAHAHAHA… yes thats laughing!]

    I stand by what I said. Show me one muslim who will take criticism of Islam in strides..never.. Now who is laughing.

    [No! I did not ignore blasphemy… Dara Singh (the culprit) said it was this very reason that he did it… gee… read about it! And also read up on the hand chopping case! They have already made progress and put those muslims behind bars!]

    You ignored Blasphemy altogether. Dara Singh committed CRIME because he was peeved by conversions done by Staines. You are again wrong here.

    [TURKEY TURKEY TURKEY! and I donno what Wajib-ul-something is…. are you making up words??]

    I guess you have no knowledge of Islam or muslim society. As a muslim what ‘Wajib-ul-Qatl’ means?
    It clearly shows that you have never interacted with muslims or pretending not to understand very simple urdu words. Again liar can go to any extent to win an arguement.

    [HAHAHA… again… you call them separatists when they are only asking for equality! And then you say thousands of INdians have been killed… well aren’t Kashmiri Indians too? You only want to keep the land minus the people! Its all ego now!]

    HA HA HA..HOO HOO HOO…They are not asking for equality but asking for Nizam-e-Mustafa. Google this word and understand its meaning. The land of Kashmir does not belong to converted kashmiri but it belongs to original inhabitants kashmiri Pandits.

    [Did the average Kashmiri chase out or was it the infiltration and the foreign funded local group that targeted them? Complete mis-understanding of ground realities…]

    It was average muslim that chased out pundits. Google some videos. But then who am I asking? A person, who make uninformed statements and doesn’t understand a word of Urdu.

    [HAHAHA! HOW BLIND ARE YOU! Ofcourse they are asking for equal treatment! Article 370 does not make it a better place to be at than Delhi or Bombay or Bangalore! And what do you suggest? We cut off Kashmir valley and perpetrate genocide to satisfy your blood thirst?? Then lets surround all muslim areas and kill them also! Wow what a grand solution! Then surely the Kashmiris will love us!]

    HAHA HA..HOOOOOO… No they are not asking for any equal treatment. They are asking for separation and purely Islamic independent state. The article 370 doesn’t allow Indians to buy land in kashmir but allows kashmiris to buy land anywhere in India. Is this not the preferred treatment then what is. You are basically an ignorant nutcase.

    [‘Insurgency’ was not started by locals! But later… some did join! What would you do if you were crushed between heavily armed foreign militant and security forces? Both eager to kill you?? Protest and bring down the government?! HA! Such a statement can only be made by a person sitting in a city where he enjoys all the freedoms and rights of India!]

    It wa started by locals. Read more..The pakistanis joined later. Have you ever been to kashmir? :)

    [“Who told you that they don’t say ‘PAKISTAN ZINDABAD’? Wait for 14th Aug. and you will get your answer.”

    Okay!]

    What happened…Did you not see them chanting ‘Pakistan Zindabad’?

    [Oh please! My family has also been posted to Kashmir multiple times… besides I was not talking about the insurgency… but about the protests against shooting civilians… I think there is scope in that… I wonder what your reaction would be if Hindu kids were shot by CRPF for throwing stones at them in your city??]

    LIE..BIG LIE…Your knowledge about muslims and kashmir is clear indication that you have never lived in muslim majority areas forget kashmir. There is no need to lie if you don’t know about something. By the way 4 farmers were shot dead by UP police in Agra region, all of them hindus. The Indian police is very secular when it comes to killing people.

    [As for Afzal Guru… he is like Col. Purohit… Indian but anti-national… it’ll be stupid to think Indians are immune to radicalisation…]

    I agree on this one..Both should be punished severely. but the problem is that muslims will continue to produce Afzals knowingly for eternity whereas hindus will stop their kids from becoming purohit.

    [Hahaha… sure thing Rajeev… A person who passes judgement constantly on people and then declares he looks for positives! Hahaha… sure… knock yourself out!]

    Sure thing Ahmer..A person who uses lies and illogical statements constantly and then declares he looks for positive is living in cuckoo land.. Sure knock yourelf out..after all continuous lies must have drained you out.

    Rajeev Reply:

    Above reply is for AHMER.

  • Sanjiv

    we all may disagree with Vir, but no way can abusive language be accetable on a public forum….guys pls. disagree but no foul language please…

    [Reply]

  • Bob Mathews

    So many ‘Internet lunatics’ ??

    Or are they just a few, posting messages repeatedly, using fake names.

    [Reply]

    Ankit Reply:

    I am sure you are a very civilized and sophisticated person who abuses anyone with differing opinion as a “lunatic”. In this respect, you are not too different from Vir Sanghvi.

    [Reply]

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    Care to explain if you have included yourself? Probably not since Solomon is your name, which you do not want to disclose.

    Civilized debate is possible between sober individual only.

    Is cynicism your forte?

    [Reply]

    Bob Mathews Reply:

    @Anil n Ankiet……You are only proving the point I’ve made. Internet Lunatics!!!

    [Reply]

    Ankit Reply:

    Mr. Bob. Thank you for giving me this certificate. My life would have been so miserable if a foul mouthed abuser like you had not shown me my place.

    Anil Kohli Reply:

    I hope you have been duly certified by some Mental Asylum.

    Display that certificate prominently, your language does confirm the Tag that you are pasting on other is more apt for you.

  • sunil

    no ankit the guy is liek any religous hating minority……he loves sonia and her media propagandists
    because thy hate idol worshipper hindus and appease minorities by valuing the life of ishrat and sorabuddin and wanting modi hanged…..
    this media hides swami and 4 otehrs killed in orissa and hindus killed in jujarat and kashmir..
    but makes sure the pole who recat in self defence get hanged because hindus r not even entitled
    to defence and justice…

    and it is because the hindus know that media will hide hindu deaths by minorities eg kashmir,godhra ,bareil,hyderabad riots…..

    they r forced to recat..so it is peole like congress who r fanning communal hatred in the contry
    by discriminating against hindus only and considering their lives as worthless…

    shame on hindus for letting peole like vir use hindus names when they rhindu haters loved by
    hindu hating people lik bob….for hating hindus and allowing minorities to kill tehm like godhra ,kashmir and orissa..

    sonia ahs meade sure the hindus r being punished and media could careless about justice to sami and 4 others only because theyr hindus…

    no sit for that….

    [Reply]

  • Gaurab Sinha

    Everyone comes with their point of view, so I think, no restrictions can be levied on those users or bloggers who bring defamation to someone. If someone is really and morally wrong, there is nothing called bringing defamation on a person. But if defamation comes to someone who is innocent, then I would say it is unfair and wrong.

    [Reply]

  • RAJ

    Sir,I am shocked to learn that a no. of boarding Schools in India are not Maintaining Secular character of India.Classrooms and Schools are meant to spread real education,but when you learn about highly paid boarding School ,they are not maintaining secular character of nation.In a Nation of 31 states..1618 languages..29 major national festivals..6 major religion…some of the boarding schools are not giving opportunities to tinytots to celebrate festivals even when majority of the students belong to a community.Is it fair…in our nation…everybody has a right to celebrate his festival with his family.

    [Reply]

    maya mani Reply:

    confirm this by video at deshgujarat.com.. elmedia will never show such true violnce…..but if they get a chance they will faslely blame bjp-rss-hindus for everything…..they hid godhra train and then sceramed about post godhra 24-7…and told teh world that hindus r killing for fun….without cause..tehy also hid hindus killed post godhra and modi police……so allwe hear is 2000 muslims died ..what a lie….300 hindus and 700 mulims died in gujarta 2002 all started by muslims…..but media lies to favors muslims and blame hinuds who r not violent

    read on

    Sunni Muslims of north Gujarat’s Bhilavan in Patan Taluka were on streets and throwing stones exactly like Kashmiri anti-nationals on Monday night.

    Rioting groups of Sunni Muslims wearing Islamic caps and beard injured seven cops including one Police Sub Inspector. Police did all possible to control them, including using of lathicharge, teargas shells and 16 rounds of fire in air. Extra police force was called at the village to control the situation. The rioting mobs were openly challenging the court verdict and law of the land. They were throwing stones in favor of four local Muslims convicted for brutal murder. Relatives of brutally murdered Hindu animal right activist were on their target.

    The story starts from 14 months back. Ramesh Ambalal Prajapati was a sincere animal right activist who was active in rescuing cows and calves from the hands of butchers. Prajapati was very active in preventing illegal bovine trafficking. One night, as many as five Muslims killed him using sharp weapon brutally, when he was sleeping outside his house in the village.

    After receiving complaint from late Ramesh Prajapati’s brother Chamanbhai in this connection, the Vagadod Police of Patan district arrested five local Muslims responsible for murder. On the other side, Chamanbhai and his wife Savitaben had to leave Bhilavan village due to threats from local Muslims. They settled in Patan town, the district headquarter.

    After 14 months of trial, Patan court yesterday gave verdict awarding life imprisonment to all four guilty for murder of Ramesh Prajapati. Those jailed for life are Shoeb Yusuf Bhorania(44), Hamid Bapudi Madhia(35), Arshad Ahmad Sheth)25) and Umar Adam Bhagat(35).

    Rameshbhai’s brother Chamankumar and his wife Savitaben had decided that whenever Justice is awarded to them, they would go to Goddess temple in their own village Bhilavan to offer religious flag there. Chamanbhai has stopped shaving his beard and Savitaben had decided to remain barefooted until they get justice for Rameshbhai’s murder, and they offer thanks to Mataji in village temple by offering religious flag.

    Aprehanding possible attack on Chamanbhai and Savitaben by local fanatic Sunni Muslims, the police party decided to accompany Chamankumar and his wife to Bhilavan village to protect them.

    As soon as they reached Chehar Mataji’s Mandir in Bhilavan, the Muslims started pelting stones and tried their best to kill Chamanbhai and Savitaben yesterday evening. The Muslims damaged one Police vehicle and five private vehicles.

    According to DySP V.V.Rathod, Police had to fire ten rounds from revolver and six rounds of 303 rifle in air to control the rioting Muslims. Four out of total seven policemen injured were shifted to Patan for further treatment.

    Police has started identifying the attackers and stone pelters through video footage. Charges are filed against 19 rioters. Two are arrested. The rioters had kept veiled ladies on the front side of the mobs, who initiated the stone pelting.

    [Reply]

    Rajeev Reply:

    jai ho..Muslims are always innocent and victim..never forget that..if you don’t want yourself labelled communal by media and their political masters.

    [Reply]

  • Harry

    I read article “Shah claims amnesty for ‘best police state’ “. In the whole article I did not find anywhere Shah or for that matter anybody even CBI claiming Best police state. It appears that Police state existed in the mind juvanile HT reporter. If HT has any integrity it should discipline such reporter, publish an apology for such article and assure public that it will not allow itself to be used as vehicle of propaganda. But integrity is in short supply in India and non-existant among secularists and media.

    [Reply]