Hindustan Times
BJP’s hulk and Advani’s sulk
He used to be the party president
Alas, now reduced to dissident
Mr. Advani, it seems, needs sympathy
Though it may not be his cup of tea.
Where is the man, the great patriot
who rode aboard a political chariot
Roiling the nation in Ninety-One
When saffron had an open season!
While the party is led by a famous hulk
Is it for a doyen to smirk and sulk?
The Lotus brigade must sit and think
As Mr A moves to raise a stink
Spectrum and coal, petrol and fuel
Make great stuff for political duel
But what do you do when scam busters
have in their ranks some shady hucksters?
Elections are coming, are they ready?
Or are they down with the weight of Yeddy?
NaMo is towering but he does have scars
Much as it’s true that he’s come far
Coal’s great ammo, but coalition’s a task
Who will stitch them? Is it too much to ask?
Mr A may well be Gadkari’s gadfly
But there’s more anguish than anger in his cry
Saffron’s a nice colour, but it must see red
If it doesn’t learn, it may end up dead
Walkie-walkie must go with talkie-talkie
Will someone tell this to the men in khakhi?
Here are some facts-
1. The muslims ruled India uninterrupted for 800 years so they were always favored people of the rulers paying minimal taxes and getting sops from rulers.
2. After 1857, muslims under Syed Ahmed Khan (of AMU fame), sided with Brits against hindus to get favor.
3. Then came Jinnah of Syed Ahmed Khan school of separatism. He wanted 50% reservation for muslims in all the fields. His demand was rejected by CONGRESS which led to creation of Pakistan and later Bangladesh.
4. The total number of muslims in India-Pak-Bangladesh are 500 million (50 crores). Out of these 2/3rd muslims live in Pak-Bangladesh where they get 100% reservation in all fields. The minorities in those countries especially hindus are treated a pile pf garbage.
5. Now muslims are demanding reservation again citing backwardness of muslims. Now they are claiming that 95% of them are hindu converts (it is a different thing that in private every muslims claims to be decendent of Arab or Turk). They got their Pakistan and Bangladesh but many still stuck back in India despite overwhelmingly supporting pakistan movement before 1947. The constitution of India does not allow reservation based on RELIGION so muslims are using CASTE route. However muslims have been converting hindus using propaganda that there is no Casteism in Islam and everyone is equal. Both Muslims and Congress are now contradicting their earlier position..
The people like Zia are actually ideological terrorists who keep poisoning minds of people. The muslims are liberated hindus who chose Islam over hinduism for the sake of equality. Now they should live with their choice. If they want reservation, they should revert back to hinduism and back to caste fold else all of them can go to PAK-BD where they are assured 100% reservation… Ab Bhikmango ki tarah bheek mat maango…tum to hamara 800 saal ke liye Aaka the..
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Cheetah009 Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
I have read few articles written by this Zia Haq and decided not to read more of them. The more I read his articles, more I hate the Muslim community. It pains when educated Muslims consider religion is above everything in life. Muslims are similar to Hindu-Jain community thinking their religion/faith is the best and people following other religion are morons. I don’t understand why Hindustan Times publish such articles. As a kid I grew up loving people from different castes and religion and at the same time hating ‘Muslim-hating’ hindus. But as I grew older, I realised why people hate muslims !! Once a loved community, it is now the most religion-community on earth. For the fools did not question or keep check on the greed and desires of the Maulvis /Maulanas !!!
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Mohammed Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Muslims never ruled 800 yrs, they ruled parts of India, on an average half of this India for about 500 yrs. Do you say whole muslims have to suffer for the misdeeds of one Syed A Khan? Anyway, if India is a secular and democratic nation run under the present constitution, it has to adopt affirmative action. Otherwise, how would you remove the present systematic social oppresion, suppresion or discrimination? Are you happy with the present morally corrupt society? How would India aspire to become superpower keeping 1/5th of population slave? Under Muslim rule, hindus (brahmins) fluorished, but those who were half hindu (lower class) embraced islam for social dignity. But as the power remained with brahmins, these new muslims were kept oppressed till today.
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RajX Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
The hallmarks of an arabized person is that he parrots the talking points of the people who converted him even though he knows it’s all bullcr*p. He does it because he needs to justify his immoral action of sleeping with Islamist invaders and thus committing treachery on his own society just to curry favors with the invaders turned rulers. It’s intellectual jujitsu but it only fools the arabized themselves and no body else who knowns history. How predictable your ilk is….
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engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
rajx brhmns came from central india demolished indus valley civilization then stayed on bank of ganga.sanskrit is not indian language.vedas were not written in india.vedas are full of cows and horses whichare not indians.non brhmns shudras and women are not allowed to touch this holy scripture.
ban on cow slaughter was imposed by budhdhists.brhmns were cow eaters during their time cow almost reached to the point of extinction.
as per their holy scripture only white is divine people of other colours are jokers like lord krishna.
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
central india
pls read central asia
Sumit Bose Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:26 pm
The astounding fact facing all humanity is that where-ever Muslims are in a minority, they are vocal for “secularism”; the moment they can reach majority they are vociferous for Islamization.The Indian Constituent Assembly elections in 1946 saw the Muslim League win almost 90% of the Muslim Votes . Yes, that means 90% of the muslims of India voted for the Muslim League, which went screaming for Pakistan since 1940. The secular party like Fazl-ul-haq’s Krishi Praja Party had to bite the dust in Bengal.That means the Muslims of Kerala, Orissa, Karnataka etc all voted en-masse for the creation of Pakistan. Yet they chose to stay in India, while both wings of Pakistan did the usual Muslim act of driving out the minorities. Today Pakistan has about 1% of the population who are Hindus living as 3rd class citizens and in Bangladesh 7% of its population of Hindus living as 2nd class citizens.
The reason to bring in reservations based on religion is devious and mischievous especially, this same group of people had voted for the creation of Pakistan and then for reasons best known chose to stay back. Not content with one treachery, are pushing for more unethical mischief. For God’s sake, why cant they compete as individuals?
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engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
13%reservation should be given to high.muslims should have 15% as per numbers.70%to backwards and dalits.
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:20 am
It is not the fault of Brahmins that Muslims send their sons to Madrassas instead of schools. How are you going to get ahead in today’s world if only thing you study is the religious books? It is well known that Khans rule the Bollywood, and then we have people like Salman Rushdie, MF Hussain, APJ Kalam etc. It is clear that those muslims who wanted to improve their lives have not been prevented from doing so… The allegations of systematic social oppression are completely false and motivated.
1/5 of the population is free and always been free. It is their choice if they want to wallow in the slums.
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engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
traapdar muslims are sending their sons to madarssa because they are cheap.now 40%of students of madarssa are hindus.
muslims have made more than 1001 innovative inventions.those students came from madarssa.
europe is against our ancient education system as it is impossible to mentally enslave their student.base of this education system is high moral value.
kunal Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:21 am
“Anyway, if India is a secular and democratic nation run under the present constitution, it has to adopt affirmative action”.
What a weird logic? Secular means treating all religions equal, not “dis-equal” by fixing quota for a religion.
Mohammed then asks “Otherwise, how would you remove the present systematic social oppresion, suppresion or discrimination?” Well, definitely not by assigning quotas: SC/ST/OBC have quotas for over fifty years without changing fate of the bulk of SC/ST/OBC. The answer lies in self-help and self-improvement. Instead of going to Madarsas where there is no focus on Math & Science, muslims should go to normal schools. And if there are no schools, muslims should create new schools. The emphasis here is self-help, not a “Khairat”. Just look at poor Hindus/Jains/Christians/Sikhs: many of them have improved their lot by education, by starting companies, by going abroad……..by self-help.
Lastly, Mohammed says “Under Muslim rule, hindus (brahmins) fluorished”. What a joke! Ask the family of Hindus whose members were slaughtered, had to pay an extra “Jiziya” tax and terrorized in the millions for a long time. Muslim Turks killed two million Armenians out of hatred. You are lucky that this did not happen in India when Muslims lost power. The Hindu hearts are still cursing what happened to them over 800 years.
Mohammed should understand the background and come out ahead with the message of self-help and self-improvement.
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Mohammed Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Well, Sachar report says affirmative action has benifitted greatly to SCs and STs. So why not to poor muslims? They don’t need Hajj subsidy. Sachar report found that only 3% muslim children goes to madrassas, Only poor muslims send their children, because it is completely free and but serves at least two purposes, a low paid job of priest/imam and the religious knowledge to keep the islamic tradition. Jiziya tax is a normal tax to an able non-muslim like a muslim pays the tax (Zakat). Only the names are different. Tax citizens pay everywhere. So don’t put some absurd arguments. Muslims are striving, but need some govt. support.
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
OK..Let us accept your opportunistic lie that muslims ruled for 500 years..was this not enough for muslims to prosper?
The affirmative action as per constitution is only meant for groups victim of caste system. If muslims want reservation they should abandon Islam as it has not fulfilled their aspiration and rejoin hindu faith as SCs and OBCs. No one is stopping you.
I think muslims are number one in all crimes especially underworld so you should ask yourself that why has Islam created criminals out of normal human beings?
India can never be superpower till people including muslims and especially muslims breed like rabbits. India is one of the few nations where polio exists because muslims in india consider polio vaccine as conspiracy of kafirs to make muslims impotent.
Bheek maangne se koi ameer nahi hua mian..Mehnat karo..Bheek maangni hai to muslim countries jaao, jahan tumhare hum-quom ayyashi farma rahein hein.
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engrich Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
rajeev u punjabis are thieves liars and highly immoral people.
muslims are hard worker evrycityof northern india is known with muslim handicraft.
aaj kal pagalpane ka daura zor se pada hai.ya kisi mussalman ne teri ghaand maree hai.
Anonymous Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
DO you mean 60% of pakistan is thief?
The muslims are most immoral people because they can sell their ammies for some money.
Mohammed Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
500 yrs was not enough. Because 3000 yrs were proved to be still not enough for Brahmins (aryans) in India. Poor muslims are also the victims of traditional caste system, so they deserve affirmative action, not rich muslims. Abolish Hajj subsidy. Sachar report found that affirmative action indeed benifitted SCs, STs. Your criminal statistics are not true, everywhere you will find hindus are the rapist, of course hindus are some sort of sophisticated criminals. Definitely islam has alleviated human sufferings. Many dreaded criminals became honest after embracing islam. Your polio theory is a lie. True, muslim’s fertility rate is higher, but this is a matter of concern among the illiterate poor muslims. That’s why we need to educate them. Remember only 3% muslim children goes to madrassas, because of poor.
RajX Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
Very good points but I suspect that it would fall on deaf ears or at least on people who are acting deaf.
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Ssk4u2 Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:27 am
Ekdum fadu reply… dude… we need more people like you to save our motherland….
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zia haq should ask himself why muslims are backward, If constitution has said reservations to be given based on backwardness then whole of India is backward, give reservation to all.Islam is an exclusivist religion which on one hand says we dont have difference within and now they are trying to show they are dalits, dhobi, julaha,arjal within muslim society.
The reservation policy is flawed but no one wants to listen, now its beings extended on religious basis also. Why keep general category among Hindus away from reservations then if muslims and christians are also going to be given benefits. Muslims and Christians are backward only in India?
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It is pointless to argue with a bigot like Zia. The way in which he dismisses the statement of Mukhtar Naqvi – no facts, no rebuttal, no data – is evidence enough. Nevertheless, the normal folks who read the comments section should be exposed to facts.
Are Muslims discriminated in education ? Is there any barrier to their joining schools or colleges ? Do people who look at answer sheets of IIT or IIM or civil services entrance examinations give lesser number of marks to people with a Muslim name ? The answer to all these questions is a no. Then why are muslims lagging? The answer is mostly economic and the only way is to make sure we have equitable economic development. If we create an equitable society, those who work hard and have the right ideas will prosper irrespective of whether they are muslims or hindus, male or female, dalits or adviasis,, or whatever. This is the view of society that should be endorsed instead of narrow minded bullshit of people like Mr. Zia.
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Abolish reservations for everyone. Govt should provide free education for EBCs irrespective of religion, caste, creed. That is when India will truly progress. POLITICIANS SHOULD STOP APPEASING THEIR VOTE BANKS!
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India needs another partition to ensure there are no muslim left behind this time.
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
I think it’s better to reform misguided people than reward them with land for their utter idiocy. Anyways there is not enough land to give off to bigoted religious groups anymore. Anyways I believe that most progressive Muslims are an asset to the country unlike some bad apples like our Zia here.
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dead_terrorist Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
pakistan can be divided further so as to make room for those indian muslims who want to separate from india!!!
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Zia started on the right track when he said that muslims should not wait for reservations to improve their lot but, as always and very quickly, he fell on the wrong path. No where in the article Zia owned responsibility that Muslims may have themselves to blame for their plight. I will cite some ideas for Zia to ponder:
1. It is a known fact that Indian-hindu professionals outnumber Paksitani-muslim professionals in international workplaces and universities far more than the population ratios will dictate. Who is discriminating against Pakistani Muslims in Pakistan and who is making them backward. For crying out loud, Islam came to Sindh within a few decades of Islam’s birth.
2. It is also a known fact that proportionately fewer Hindu kids start their education in a hindu religious school than Muslims in a Madarsa. Religious education may have a rewards but it also has a cost. Will Zia like to consider that cost?
3. If you visit the Indian streets, most people (e.g. Hindus, Christians, Buddists, Athiests, Parsis) cannot be distinguished from each other by attire and language (I grant that Sikh men are an exception to this rule). However, Muslims deliberately choose to look different — long beards, different styles of costumes, different phraseology, and other such things. This is true not only in India but in the entire world. If you can discriminate yourself from us, why can’t we discriminate against you.
4. Muslims have become cry-babies not only in India but in the entire world: they are violated by jews in Israel, they are not getting enough jobs in India, they are spied upon in the United States, the west is killing them in Afghanistan/Pakistan, the west has imposed dictators and puppet regimes in the nations where muslims constitute 98% of the population, China is persecuting its Muslim population and Philipinos are persecuting theirs. What is going on? How come Muslims are the target in every country? Do they have something to look inward.
5. Islamic world is loaded with petro dollars for the last three or four decades. Where are the world class research universities in Islamic countries? Where are secular think tanks (or even Islamic think tanks for that matter) in the Islamic countries? Where are the Islamic ballets and music-conservatories?
6. Are women discriminated against in Islamic families? In India? Anywhere else? If women cannot even drive in Saudi Arabia do some of those attitudes creep into Indian Islamic societies? If women are discriminated against in a society, does it cause the per-capita productivity to decline in that society? Does it effect not only the female child but also the male child in that society? If a woman is allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia will it benefit her son?
7. Muslims are under-represented in government jobs and science and education. Are they also under-represented in sports, music, and arts? If they are not then how come they are not discriminated against in those fields.
8. Is the birth-rate even slightly higher in Islamic societies than in others? If yes, does it not put additional burden on that society? If it does then why in a resource starved world, non-muslims subsidize muslims.
9. Is the average age at which a girl is married among Msulims lower than among other communities? Why is it not more important for Muslims to stop that practice than demand for reservations? What is the local maulvi doing to make a difference and if he is not doing anything than why not?
The list can go on and on. The point is that before Muslims point one finger at someone else they should look at where the other three fingers pointing at. I hope and wish that Zia avails the opportunity to read and absorb this article.
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Here are some other facts.
1. For thousands of years in the Hindu Society Education was only available to Brahmins. However, some notable exceptions exist, but by and large this is true.
2. Aryans are aliens to the Indian sub-continent where they have for 3 millennia or more, marginalised the indigenous tribes and other sections of the population. So much so that the History of Northern India is synonymous with the History of Aryans.
3. Access to education and other such privileges are still very much governed by one’s caste. Lower the caste more difficult it is for an individual to gain access to education. Significant improvement has taken place over the last 200 years or so mainly due to the policies of the Brits – though not exclusivly -, and none of it due to any change of heart among the conservative Hindu society. For an example of progressive Hindus, see below.
4. The function of reservations is to address inherent in-equalities that exist in our society. We have reservations for a whole variety of criteria. There are reservations to address in-equalities due to religious disadvantages, regional disadvantages, even for children whose fathers served in the forces, etc etc.
5. Opposition to reservation is almost always led by middle class, Hindu upper castes because the change in status quo hurts them the most.
6. To maintain caste based hierarchies of privileges is the main agenda of Hinduatva. It wants to re-establish the rigid caste system and denigrate minorities to a permanent second class citizenship.
7. Whilst I believe the current reservation system can be improved upon, even over-hauled, it remains necessary to create even tiny semblance of equality in our society.
—————————————————–
Reservations in favour of Backward Classes (BCs) were introduced long before independence in a large area, comprising the Presidency areas and the Princely states south of the Vindhyas. Chatrapati Sahuji Maharaj, Maharaja of Kolhapur in Maharashtra introduced reservation in favour of non-Brahmin and backward classes as early as 1902. He provided free education to everyone and opened several hostels in Kolhapur to make it easier for everyone to receive the education. He also made sure everyone got suitable employment no matter what social class they belonged. He also appealed for a class-free India and the abolition of untouchability. The notification of 1902 created 50% reservation in services for backward classes/communities in the State of Kolhapur. This is the first official instance (Government Order) providing for reservation for depressed classes in India.
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RajX Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Aryan theory is a theory cooked up by colonialists to rule over India since they can claim that Indians are not indigenous to the land so they don’t have any claims over it and thus justifying their colonization. It’s sad that “liberal Hindu” ravi is parroting theories cooked up by Europeans to justify their colonization of India. The arabized also use the same strategy to attack dharmic religions claiming parity for the Arab religion with dharmic ones in terms of being indegenous.
Regarding reservation, it should have always been what it was intended to be for. To help people who are materially “backward”. People have injected caste into it for harvesting votes and now they want to inject religion into. That’s intellectually backward, immoral and disgusting!
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Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:33 am
RajX
Is that so.
I expected this rubbish theory would surface and I thank you to bringing it up.
I am sorry to say that “Hindu Fundo RajX” is completely wrong. The Aryan migration theory is backed by tons of evidence of the kind that professional Historians accept as evidence.
I could give you names of INDIAN Historians who – on their honour – would back the Aryan migration theory, but then I am afraid you will only dismiss them as JNU type.
You would only be convinced if the RSS backed the Aryan Migration theory, but they are not likely to do that, are they.
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:58 am
“Hindu liberal” ravi, why push a debunked racist and colonialist theory here in this forum? What’s your agenda “Hindu liberal”? By the way, you are not very different from RSS. Both of you pea brained nitwits believe in the colonialist and racist Aryan theory. So you finally found a soul mate. A weak “Hindu liberal” has found his soulmate in a communal organization. Fantastic. You guys should do a Aryan honeymoon. Nitwit. Repeating the talking points of illiberal Islamist NUTTERS doesn’t make you a liberal. It just makes you a pea brained and brainwashed nitwit.
Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 10:11 am
This is little more than a puff of hot air emnating from a guy who seems to have lost total control over himslef.
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Pea brained self proclaimed “Hindu liberal” ravi has no answers. Only ad hominems.. Frothing in the mouth against Indians, Indian culture and tradition is not not going to help your Islamist cause. Sorry little pea brain. Your racist and colonialist theories stink.
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:09 am
“Hindu liberal” ravi, here is some info for ur pea brain about the debunking the colonialist Aryan theory which a weak and illiberal minded “Hindu liberal” like you are spouting.
friendsofsouthasia.org/textbook/ComingOfAryans.html
Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:35 am
RajX
Equipped with two things:
1. My Pea Brain
2. The link you provided.
This is what I discovered in 5 minutes.
______
1. Isn’t it true that the Aryans Invasion Theory has been disproved? There is no evidence of invasions taking place, and the whole theory is based on flaky linguistic theories.
The Aryan Invasion Theory has many variants. The Aryan Invasion Theory advocating a purely racial “invasion” proposed by Max Mueller has been questioned by many, including the noted historian, Romila Thapar, in the 1960s. The contemporary theory of Aryan origin corroborates data and evidences from over two dozen different fields of study and demonstrate a pattern of cultural, social and linguistic migration/domination/invasion of people speaking the Indo-European languages from Central Asia into India. This theory about the Aryan origin, which is currently the most authoritative theory among historians, does not state that the Aryans were an indigenous people. For details see: “The Aryan Question Revisited”, by Romila Thapar at http://members.tripod.com/ascjnu/aryan.html .
The Hindutva groups are misleading the masses by criticizing Max Mueller’s Aryan Invasion Theory (which is already discredited) and cleverly, falsely and deviously claiming that Michael Witzel and others (including Romila Thapar) are supporting Max Mueller’s theory. In fact, under the cover of criticizing Max Mueller, the self -styled Hindutva historians [most of whom are engineers and businessmen] are promoting a theory that Aryans did not migrate from Central Asia but were the original inhabitants of India. This theory has been propped up as a propaganda item on numerous websites and is discussed as a community specific truth within the Hindutva circles. It holds no currency within established historical scholarship.
YOUR BRAIN IS CLEARLY SMALLER THAN A PEA
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Really? Did you cry when Osama died? My condolences. Osama is now fish food. so why call yourself “liberal Hindu” ravi when you cry over the death of an Islamist? Is deceit allowed in Islam especially when it’s practiced against the kufirs?
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
So your pea brain has pea sized memory too? You claimed that RSS did not believe in Aryan theory. They do. Just like you. Two of a kind. A anti Hindu indian nutter and a power hungry nutter both embrace each other. Now you can run around trees, dance and sing a song.
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
He is no hindu or sikh liberal. He is a fundoo muslim who cried on death of Osama.
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 1:51 am
Here again terrorist speaks with forked tongue..He claims to be a sikh (Aryan)… AIT has been discredited but terrorists like Ravi still stick to it.
Warrior and Trader class always got education and also Shudras..this is the reason Ramayana & Mahabharata was written by Shudras..
This propaganda by terrorists is not going to work anymore. Only muslims are alien to this land as they have refused to assimilate themselves with India unlike others.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:10 am
1. There is no such thing as Aryan Invasion/Migration. Indeed, either we are ALL Aryans (muslims included) or none of us are Aryans.
2. Access to education is actually governed by financial and social considerations, whether a family can afford to send their children school or not is the biggest consideration, which is why schemes like mid day meal are a big success.
3. Function of reservation is to consolidate votes. If the reservation was intended to address inequities in the society, it would have addressed the financial and social backwardness issues, instead, reservation is only done on the basis of caste.
4. Reservation does indeed hurt the middle class, because the middle class needs jobs. Reservation, which is anti-merit, takes away jobs just because the person is of the wrong caste. Thus, far from addressing social inequities, reservation actually discriminates against the middle class. Hardly the hallmark of a democracy.
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Ravi Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Trapdaar
You are entitled to your opinions.
I hope you would accept the simple fact that I disagree with you on the main points.
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:01 am
A nutter with manners?? Hahaha…
Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
rajX,
ravi has on record justified actions of osama..Total terrorist material.
RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
He is very cunning but still pea brained.
Reservation coupled with Minority Protection Bill is the volatile combination for experimentation on India as merit is relegated to the back seat. It is designed to push it through its transient phase fof tectonic shift.
After successful implementation of above civilised world can say good buy to India as it will expedite its fall to meet the eventuality, matching Mayan civilisation.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 2:01 am
This is like taking India back to 1930s muslim league politics. The pro-Jinnah element that were dormant till date have started singing same tune. I actually hold Advani responsible to rehabilitating terrorist Jinnah in Indian mind. He was the most disgusting SOB who was directly responsible for genocide of 1 million hindus-sikhs-muslims.
The fake sikhs never worry about sikh right but jump on every opportunity to defend muslims who divided India because they demanded that british give then rein of power so that Islamic rule can continue.
I am amazed to see muslim hypocrisy.,.They divided India and now are claiming to be victims. It is time this hypocrisy is cut short.
If pakistan wants kashmir, it should take 160 million Indian muslims along with fake sikhs. If it can claim muslim majority land, it should also claim muslim people.
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i completely agree with the author. muslims need special assisstance in the 21st century india.
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Education is the key for any society. If we look at traditionally lowest educated group like Jat etc, they changed their way and started educating their kids. Fruits of success are now ever where.
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About eighty percent of this article justifies reservations for the former rulers of Islamic India and about ten percent of it says that the former Islamic rulers of India should not take the reservation. About ten percent of it is about bashing the people of India who did not succumb to arabization. Something tells me that Zia would have turned out to be a better person if he had stuck to his childhood principle that he wouldn’t read the Koran because it did not have any colorful pictures. He says
“There is, in our Constitution, a clear promise for reservations on the basis of “backwardness”.”
Backwardness of mind can’t be cured by reservation nor can it be used to extort undeserved special benefits to a particular religious community who were the former rulers of India. If “material backwardness” is the criteria for reservation, then I am all for it. Then we don’t need a religious or caste based reservation. I would have had more respect for Zia if he had made that case since that would cover all materially backward people including Muslims without injecting religious poison into reservation just like Zia is trying to do here but to who’s benefit I wonder….
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Ssk4u2 Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:42 am
awesum reply….
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2/3rd of sub-continental muslims are enjoying 100% reservation..Is that not enough? I fail to understand shamelessness of Indian muslims? They were given choice between secular India and theocratic pakistan. If they wanted reservation, they should have moved to pakistan.
The fake sikhs can invent history to suit their interest but it is not going to get thru..If muslims try to push their luck, they are in for huge disaster.
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In the USA there are Catholic schools, Jewish Schools and so on. There is nothing that should stop the better-off Muslims to establish their local school and make sure that it is well staffed and supported. The Idea that Education coupled with many of the best ideas that the Muslim religion is endowed with can be a powerful force for progress and Change. When I see people steeped in a dozen festivels that span an entire year and lost in rituals and superstition, no amount of reservation is going to be helpful to get ahed in the Modern World. So, DONT WAIT for reservation. Rather, Reject Reservation and Prosper. What is needed is community action. The family support is already there.
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Just as a mule is a cross-breed between a horse and a donkey, indians/pakistanis/bangladeshis/sri lankans are cross-breeds between Aryan and Dravidian (austral-african, black, negrito).
The muslims/christians in the sub-continent are just converts over a period of time. Babar was a half-mongol from Samarkand in present day Uzbekistan.
For eg. Salman Khurshid is Aryan type while APJ Abdul Kalam is Dravidian admixture (cross-breed). The classification is based on skeletal/skull anthropometrics.
Reservations have to be given to the right people depending on proper classification.
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Dude, you never stop. Do you? Give it a rest.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
You seem to be cross between Camel and Donkey.
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Good article – and I agree (conservative) Hindus shouldn’t deny that Muslims face quite a lot of discrimination in our country. (However the statistics that you have quoted seems to be from 2005 – things have changed since then). Even then the kind of draconian reservation policies that were introduced for Dalits and lower castes cannot be justified for Muslims. Many socities have affirmative action for minority groups – perhaps partly to counter the negative effects of discrimination – but very few have mandatory quotas of a certain (high) percentage in universities and government jobs. That kind of compulsory and rather draconian affirmative action policies were justified during Independence and the subsequent decades because of the conditions of the Dalits in the 1950’s (hardly ANY were in the middle class and they had no role models and they had faced horrible discrimination in Indian society for the last several centuries), but this is hardly the case for Muslims. There is already affirmative action for Muslims – the Minority Affairs Ministry handed out scholarships worth hundreds of crores to Muslims students last year. We can also strengthen the mechanisms for providing more bank loans to Muslims. But the Indian reservation system was a special measure to deal with special circumstances – you can have affirmative action for Muslims in various other ways. The introduction of reservation system for Muslims will only lead to more animosities between Muslims and other sections of society and is therefore not advisable. (We also need an Equal Opportunity Commision to check discrimination against Muslims).
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Anonymous Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
No wonder 65% of all bengalis have converted to Islam..
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There should be no reservations for anyone… rules should be the same for everyone, the over glorified, yuppie youth of today are too dazed with gizmos and fast cars to form an opinion leave alone cast their vote, there is a urgent need to change the demographics of political parties being, run by a consortium of landgrabbers, criminals, the scum of the universe, all fundamentalist parties based on religion creed or caste need to be banned or else well all have to immigrate to other places..!
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Nice guy, nice points.
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First of all reservation is not poverty removal tool.When our great forefathers drafted our consitution ,they provided reservation to dalits because of caste discrimation in hindu society.Muslim were themself rulers so it cant be said they are marginalized community.As far as poor state of muslim is concerned,first muslim should ask to there inner voice,is over the years have they given more importance to practises of their religion or to the development
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Anything for a free ride, I bet even after reservation they will continue to blame the Hindus for their plight.
Quite honestly even after reservation muslims will continue to be at the bottom rung of the Indian society, it is the mentality which makes the difference.
Another point I want to make to this learned author in reference to his comment “Well, there are those who have even denied the Holocaust ever took place.”
It is the muslims and the right wing white christan who deney that the Holocaust ever took place”
Overall a desperate case for a free ride on tax payers money!!
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Tell me one incidence that the so called Muslim Clerics who have control over their ilks have ever made their brethren understand the importance of education ? These Clerics poison their followers by pronouncing them to treat all the non-muslims enemies and also advice them to multiply their population by all means even quoting (misquoting) the verses of their own Holy Book . What the so called rich business Muslim men (of course a few notable exceptions) who are many in number today in our country and all over the country, do, to give education to their poor brethren? It may be very hard to take. But the fact remains. Why these Muslim elites come out openly and conduct public meetings exhorting their Muslim brethren to get educated first. If they start doing this, I think and am sure, that people from all walks of life who have nationalism in them, will come forward to do their bit in the matter, in the larger interest of the country. Will the English educated Muslim brethren listen for the sake of their own poor ly placed brothers/sisters ? Close the Madarasas and ask the children go to public school to mix with other Indian children. We can see the change for better. These Children in Madarasas do not know other children for they are not allowed to mingle with. CHANGE – A MUST.
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The ruling United Progressive Alliance coalition has more or less decided to pull it off, we are told ——– can i hv some link to this , would like to know maore about this.
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Bharatiya Janata Party’s Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi that Muslims have done better in states where his party is in power. This of course cannot be fact, but ideological mumbo jumbo.
——- this is a fact & you will not accept it, other wise you will be out of job. remember vastani, he saild muslims hv progressed & need to move on, but then he was hounded & kicked out. bring back people like him who are unbaiased. so vastani is telling lies to people.
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it this victim hood & supermist religious thoughts which is the basic reason for general backwardness. you keep saying koran says, seek knowledge, i don’t see many muslims doing that. Even in, UK which has some good benefits for immigrants, only one major group following a particular religion is lagging . but you blame it on it on bjp, cia, jews, rss.
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
The weak minded will always find some one to blame. In India, they blame the Hindus and in the UK they will blame the white man. This is a victimhood industry and it’s very profitable for some people.
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Zia you are asking for reservation without appearing to be doing so. Any reservation based on communal lines will have disastrous consequences. Infact it is only politics which is keeping reservation for Dalits. We should have got over them by now. Like your community excels in keeping its own people backward smilarly well to do Dalits have grabbed the complete benefits of reservations for themselves and are keeping them alive for own benefits. You have to learn to work hard and get your due by sheer hard work. India gives a fair chance to everyone.
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London to become Londonistan .
http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/item/50461-liberalism-fuels-radical-islamism.html?tmpl=component&print=1
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If all Indians really considered each other as co-citizens and the other as precious as oneself, there will be no injustice in society – and one justice is established in the society, all progress and development would follow in due course. Why should a single Indian be discriminated against on any pretext and why is there so much violence and aggressiveness in our society?
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RajX Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Brother Abu, since you are against discrimination, I hope that you are also against Caste and religion based reservation which puts meritocracy in the trash bin and discriminates against people who really work hard in favor of people who do not perform as well.
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Zia should ask himself this question. He says that he writes about “Muslim affairs” for HT. Fine. So why are very few Muslims coming here in this forum for defending his opinions? Are they ashamed of his opinions and don’t consider it mainstream or respect worthy? Take for instance this gem
“Well, there are those who have even denied the Holocaust ever took place.”
Why would any Muslim want to defend this kind of gutter level opinions from Zia which compares the people who think that Muslims are not particularly ill-treated in India with holocaust deniers???
By the way , holocaust deniers of the twenty first century are mostly Muslims led by dear leader from Iran. This is a result of arabization where Muslims who are not Arabs have absorbed the Arab hatred of Jews through their religious networking.
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engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
the fraud of holocaust was fabricated to create isreal.if it really happened ,why
anyone who challeenge its validity is sent to 5 year jail.many german professors are languishing.
TRUTH SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF INVESTIGATION.
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The hallmark of muslim societies all over the world especially in non-muslim country is that they depend on Khairaat and always play victim card.
The commonality between muslims living in non-muslim countries-
1. Khairaat dependent.
2. a sense of vicitimhood
3. Cry baby
4. hatred for host country
5. Immense love for fascist muslim countries.
6. No repect for non-muslims’
7. Demand total respect for Islam
8. use of violence
9. propaganda against jews
10. Spread lies like ‘Islam is religion of peace’ (actualy they mean ‘religion of piece’ as they always want to divide host country).
11. Demand secularism when it suits them and demand Sharia where they are in majority.
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Cricket club managers in Hyderabad complained that talented Muslim boys are being ignored for selection of Under-14 and Under 17 teams. They should know that this is not communal discrimination – there are sports agents these days who, in exchange of a fee, guarantee the inclusion of a talented player in any team. There are hundreds of job placement agencies whose task it is to find placements in exchange of fee or commission. So, finally, its all about money exchanging hands, right from a child being admitted in a school to his/her employment after education. Moneyed people can play the game of life, right from education, health, employment to investing in any business. Those who do not have the money, regardless of community, are left behind. And the Hindu society was never known to be an egalitarian one. Hence there is prevalence of discrimination against the weak, and therefore the need of discrimination for – if our country is a welfare state too, apart from being a practically casteist Hindu state.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Go around in muslim colleges and see representation of non-muslims in different teams.
You guys just whine.
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RajX Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
If you want to experience what real discrimination is like, live as a Hindu in any Islamic society of your choice. Islamic societies operate as cults and have internalized and institutionalized discrimination based on their religious bigotry which they are taught at a very young age. The people who beleive in the dharmic way of life did not. If they had, your name won’t be Abu Ahmed but some ram Singh or Bheem Singh. Arabization speaks through people like you. You have to understand that turning you against your own forefathers culture is a surefire way of keeping you within the imposed and foreign “faith”. You may be unaware of it since you are in the targeted bubble but millions are spent by a certain govt in the middle east in India just for this singular cause. You have to ask yourself what a foreign govt gets in return for funding madrases, mosques and propaganda against the dharmic way?
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Abu Ahmed Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Thats a typical casteist way of dealing with issues. Racism, casteism, class differences are all there in the world – even the most primitive tribe in the jungles of Africa would consider itself the best people on earth – thats something inevitable. However, casteism is an article of faith and part of life Hinduism with the help of which since thousands of years people have been oppressed, killed, raped and pillaged in India. Arabs are racist obviously, but not Islam, for thats the first religion in the world to demolish many isms are liberate mankind from the yoke of priest-led worship and control over knowlede. Ideologically it sees no difference between peoples – for God says in the Quran that the best people are those who do good on earth and aware that God is watching them. Its your arrogance and hatred that you still hold on to casteism and other misplaced notions. Indian Muslims are not begging for reservations – it is the Sonias, the Mayawatis, the Phulmatis and the Bhagmatis who are after Muslim votes and are as usual trying to appease and then dump muslims after elections.
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RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
Islam replaced priests with mullahs who are infinitely worser than any Hindu priest. Hindu priests never go after political power like the mullahs do. Regarding control over knowledge, the Arabs through Islam, invasion and occupation have claimed the inventions and discoveries of other societies as their own and called it”Islamic inventions”. Unfortunately the arabized in non Arab societies have become a tool for this kind of disgusting intellectual theft.
Talking about article of faith, cultism is an article of faith in Arab Islam. That’s the reason why Islam teaches you to see the world in two. One is a Muslim and the other is a kafir. Your forefathers Hinduism doesn’t teach you think in that bigoted way. You seem to have conveniently forgotten the murders, robbery, rape and slave owning commited by the “messenger of god” and his band of thugs. Arab society had some merit before islam. After mohamad and his islam, its all moral darkness for them. I can understand that you have to justify arabization and the Arab cult because not doing so would negate the whole life you have led so far. In Islam, there is no way out. Once you are in, you are in even if you want to leave. I pity your state.
Mohammed Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at rediffmail.com.
I’m afraid I wasn’t able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I’ve given up. Sorry it didn’t work out.
:
- Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
— Enclosed is a copy of the message.
RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Hahaha..wahab..what is this about?
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
ur hinduism is money minting bussines.we teach morality.hinduism cannot be called religion.as man is unequal at birth.it is more a system.
RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
By the way, would you prefer living as a Hindu in a Islamist cesspool like Pakistan? Maybe in your worst nightmare. Unfortunately in most Islamic society, bigotry is a way of life. Islam plays a part in this bigotry since the bigotry is justified by these islamist bigots by quoting from Mohamads Koran. It’s obviously not a very nice book if bigots of all stripes find a lot of stuff in there to justify their actions.
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
descrimination is base of hinduism.they descriminate everybody ,except their jaatiwalas,hence dont complain.keep ur hand in pocket,while dealing with them.
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You are spewing typical muslim propaganda…Divide hindus and enjoy at their cost. We can see thru your designs.
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if u have particular point challenge.read argumentative indians.horses and cows are not indian animal.see ur epics.all kings ang holy people are white evil persons are black brown or blue.
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RajX Reply:
November 16th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Krishna is blue. Was he evil?
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engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
yes,as per epic had 1603 wives.had intimate relationship with his neighbours wife called radha.killed all his cousins and uncles on battlefield,because they were from lwer castes.
made castes on the basisw of birth.women and shedule castes were made outcaste.
because he was blue.not white.only white is divine and worth praising and honour.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Bush is white so is he more divine than Mohammad and your Allah?
engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
according to brhmnst yes
RajX Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Hahahaha…tejinder, Krishna is not a real person. He is a character in a mythology. I set a trap for you and you fell right into it. By the way, it looks like arabization not only distorts history of real world but it also distorts the mythical world of mythology. Funny man!
“I fail to understand why, if reservation is good for Dalits, is it bad for Muslims”
Who can argue with that? Is that your “winning” argument?
I also failed to understand why, if reservation is good for Muslims, is it bad for all nonmuslims. After all, a significant section of people from the muslim religious group divided the country on religious lines in 1947 resulting in that Islamist cesspool we now call Pakistan which has become a headache not only for India but for the whole world.
That’s my winning argument.
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engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
reservation should be provided to weaker section whether muslim or non muslim.u cannot keep a part of bharat mata paralysed.everthless muslims are also indian.why so much hate.
in up w are 18.5%.our representation in patwari/lekhpal is only .6%same in other services.if we will be part of system we will have feeling of ownership with system ,which will enhance patriotism.
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Egnrich says “because he was blue.not white.only white is divine and worth praising and honour.”
Does that mean WHITE Bush is more divine than BROWN Mohammad? Never knew muslims love Bush so much.
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engrich Reply:
November 17th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
rajeev very stupid comparison.neverthless brhmnast were supporting britishers
against indian.bhasmasur is black.while durga is white.
in islam all colors are same.i talked about vedics.
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Anonymous Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:05 am
How is it stupid? You don’t find Quran stupid which is full of nonsense…Grow some brain..
Why you keep blaming brahmin and jews for your birth?
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engrich Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 10:55 am
teri maa ka chhot pagal
RajX Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Tejinder, don’t hate Hindus and Jews. They are more civilized than the Arabs.
engrich Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 8:42 am
jews are our cousins brhmn are like brothers.i hate brhmnsm and zoinism.these are satanic anti-god thought hurting the people.
they want to built ram mandit in ayodhya.what it actually means.
it means .to ignite war between shaivite and vaishanvitesayodhya is headquarter of shaivaties.
historically shaivites killed vaishanvites in his areaa and vica versa.
these 2 satanic forces follow shaitan not bhagwan.i expose them.
see how zoinists ruined iraq afghanistan libya
and india before.
ravi bahi and shan,a good video,
Libya War Lies – Worse Than Iraq – Video – Thomas Mountain
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the above shows ur lack of knowlledge.except pakistan all muslim countries of the world iincluding saudi arabia run on reason,not on religion.
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Universities like AMU, Jamilia Milia, Hamdard have how many hindu students, and they are good universities
in good facaulties percentage of hindu student is more than 50%.
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what is wrong u bhadrlok ,chang ur skin like lizard to fool inians.40 yrs u became marxist to fight islam.did nothing for indians.enjoyed urslf.u are 13%.take 13%share of national wealth.
u are looting india since arrival of britishers.u were their a$$ licker and bootpolishers.helped them to kill half the population of bengal bihar and orrisa in first 50 years of rule.
muslims always change.for u people it is the same ,vivekanand,tagore and blood thirsty durga from 150yrs.no election ,no change in surrounding is bringing any social or mental change.
poors of bangla desh is in far better position than poorsof wb
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reservation must be cancelledd
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what i see here is in the blog all talk about past. past is gone and it is yesterday. Past follies still over rule the mind of people.Today we live. We do not know who tomorrow. So talk everything relevant of today.
Today everything is dicey. No one knows how things will shape as economy is faltering.
Every one is an economist today. Every one knows economics.Every one thinks this is right and that is wrong though he is himself is fully aware that he is confused.
Living people think it is money only. Nothing else.
Money sans real natural resource like food items is a big nothing.
Money buys things at un-affordable rates create the serious problems on confused thinking.
Some think reservations alone can solve, in fact utterly untenable.
Say you get reservations and get money and one day resources like food grains become so costly that your money cannot buy, let us say, what money achieved for you!
That kind of thing is not far off.
Today people build houses and flats by converting agricultural lands into non agricultural.If no one likes to do agriculture let us assume here from you will get food items it is like John Marshall said you have one million pounds on hand to pay for a bread in African desert but no bread then what you will do will one million pounds. That stage is your economic planning leading to. How reservations are going to help, do we think at all ?
So we should be prudent. Understand what can buy what is essential paradigm for man.
if no answer then he dies in hunger living in a palatial building without food. Palatial should mean that you have everything in plenty but that is not true. You have car no petrol or diesel, what use?
you have fire wood or fuel but no food how will you live?
you have medicines but no basic food to be nutrition what use?
Do we really think? You have planes and fuel but no food on flight what use it is?
You have no clothes to wear, though you have a lot of money can you live in cold climate?
think you will find like this quite a lot of things, what will you do with that useless money? What use it is to have reservation of food when no food is there?
So essential thing is food at all costs but we concentrate on things that is no food at all.
What earthly use is government monetary economic growth policy without food to eat and just to live?
So it is high time we have to generate real food for life and living. If that is possible then any economic growth is meaningful for any religious follower or any backward or minority community.
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what i see here is in the blog all talk about past. past is gone and it is yesterday. Past follies still over rule the mind of people.Today we live. We do not know who tomorrow. So talk everything relevant of today.
Today everything is dicey. No one knows how things will shape as economy is faltering.
Every one is an economist today. Every one knows economics.Every one thinks this is right and that is wrong though he is himself is fully aware that he is confused.
Living people think it is money only. Nothing else.
Money sans real natural resource like food items is a big nothing.
Money buys things at un-affordable rates create the serious problems on confused thinking.
Some think reservations alone can solve, in fact utterly untenable.
Say you get reservations and get money and one day resources like food grains become so costly that your money cannot buy, let us say, what money achieved for you!
That kind of thing is not far off.
Today people build houses and flats by converting agricultural lands into non agricultural.If no one likes to do agriculture let us assume here from you will get food items it is like John Marshall said you have one million pounds on hand to pay for a bread in African desert but no bread then what you will do will one million pounds. That stage is your economic planning leading to. How reservations are going to help, do we think at all ?
So we should be prudent. Understand what can buy what is essential paradigm for man.
if no answer then he dies in hunger living in a palatial building without food. Palatial should mean that you have everything in plenty but that is not true. You have car no petrol or diesel, what use?
you have fire wood or fuel but no food how will you live?
you have medicines but no basic food to be nutrition what use?
Do we really think? You have planes and fuel but no food on flight what use it is?
You have no clothes to wear, though you have a lot of money can you live in cold climate?
think you will find like this quite a lot of things, what will you do with that useless money? What use it is to have reservation of food when no food is there?
So essential thing is food at all costs but we concentrate on things that is no food at all.
What earthly use is government monetary economic growth policy without food to eat and just to live?
So it is high time we have to generate real food for life and living. If that is possible then any economic growth is meaningful for any religious follower or any backward or minority community.
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Let all of us really join together to produce real food for eating and then living is meaningful, after all more and more mouths are added day by day whether one like it or not. No point in wasting time on dry issues, for that illogical discussions may cause some Sabarmati express problems but realistic approach will be real Narmada river of life of perennial sustenance.
Life is in body if there is food to eat. No use of dry talks and irrational philosophizing. Life is to be lived meaningfully. It is no use of talk and growth without real food items on plate please.
So politicians are warned that they should not play with lives of people of any community/ies for that will backfire very every one of them.
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