Modi as PM: whose gain?



While travelling in a taxi in Mumbai, I broached the hot topic of discussion these days, ‘Modi as BJP’s prime ministerial face’. The taxi driver seemed a bit unsure about its overall outcome on BJP’s fortunes but was sure about his own vote going to Modi.

“If he has developed Gujarat, he will develop India also,” was his reason for supporting him. He is one voice from development starved India.

Then why are you so unsure about BJP forming the government? The answer in one word was ‘Muslims’. They will vote with a vengeance to defeat him unlike Gujarat where they either supported him or stayed back home out of fear of vendetta.

I sometimes wonder the impact the Rahul Gandhi versus Narendra Modi debate will have on the impending elections. Some opine the country in a way would directly elect its premier rising above narrow considerations of caste and regional issues.

Not a bad idea as India would know whether they prefer a ‘young politician’ with no performance to showcase or a ‘veteran with a development face’ who also carries a communal tag along.

Somehow I intend to go with this idea of ‘direct election of the country’s prime minister’, though there are counter arguments like the candidature of the two powerful leaders may also fail to cut through the hold of Mamata Banerjee in Kolkata and Jaylalitha in Tamil Nadu.

Secondly, Rahul will not face any dissent in the UPA , Narendra Modi may find the going tough not only in the NDA but within the BJP also.

The acceptability factor will be drummed against him. It’s quite probable that JD(U) will walk out of the alliance.

But then he may win the support from three powerful women — Jaylalitha, Mamata and Mayawati to stall the UPA from forming the government, though the BSP high command keeps the options open of supporting the party coming to power.

The fact is neither the BJP nor the Congress is confident of winning the 2014 elections and thus it is too early to talk about ‘kaun banega pradhan mantri’.

My only fear is that this Narendra Modi versus Rahul Gandhi fight will divide India into two – something which no Indian would want. Can’t say about the politicians!

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (24 votes, average: 1.75 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...
  • Atul8

    One has been hearing speculations of Presidents rule in UP. Whichever way you cut the cake,the result does not bode well….

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ I HOPE TWO ISI DUNCES DONT GET RSS, MODI &bjp INTO THIS ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————

    lLike you cant teach an old dog new tricks… frankly you cant teach Engrich and Ravi anything new except three or four words.

    I request them that this being a new blog, dplease dont ruin this by your one dimensional view of the world. This is about UP polls… so please let the topic play through and not stall it by just rattling Brhmns dalit rapes, zionism etc

    have a nice day !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Practice before preaching.Please ensure that there will be no abuse or label fabrication either.

    Have a nice week end.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    You already have.

    Bravo that is one dunce down, lets see what the other one does.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Seems that a holiday at Muridke has done wonders to ur jehadi libido. Remeber RAW agent Vijay loves to bobbit the ISI trolls.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Loves to but never manages to.

    Story of his pitiful life.

    You are about as funny as a dead badger.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I know you will never appreciate my sense of humour.

    PS: I am still laughing ever since I saw your phtograph :)

    Ravi Reply:

    If that is a sense of humour then it is hardly distinguishable from nonsense

  • Anonymous

    -If the results show Congrss getting less than 100 seats… then it proves that the media is biased :
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    The entire media coverage was about Rahul, SOnia Digvijay, Rahul Sonia Digivjay.

    Now if they get less then 100 seats… should not the media apologise?

    This is parallel to what happened in the Emergency when the media was clapping for INidra Gandhi and India was clapping for Janta Party !!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vinodji

    All the four parties have ‘publicly’ declared they would not align with anyone else. In case of a hung house, a most likely scenario, then what? President’s rule (at most 6 months as per law) followed by another round of elections to break the log-jam! Unless, the parties change the tune for the “sake” of aam janta and go on to form an alliance.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    These are coalition times, not President rule times.

    I bet some form of coalition would emerge.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Manohar

    How many seats does the BJP have to win in order for their post result excuses to be interesting?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    One more than Congress

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I would have thought that would make the Congress excuses interesting?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Your guess is as good as mine. See my rejoinder above.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    my gut says Mayawati will get the majority, a tad less than the absolute.. Maulyam will be a strong second, partly due to the energetic campaign by his son(!!! this is India). Cong and BJP will be distant 3rd/4th,

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @All

    Whatever I have read the print and heard on the TV, my personal view (sitting very far from ground-zero) is that the SP & the BSP are fighting for 1st and 2nd positions, with the Congress and the BJP fighting it out for the wooden spoon.

    Any vote share that Mayawati is going to lose (should) is going to get divided between the other three. So the major beneficiary will most likely be the SP.

    The Congress has a ready excuse (which they have been trumpeting for quite sometime) in case it does badly – ‘they are in UP for the long haul’. They do not tell us how ‘long’ is that long – very ‘clever/diabolical’ of them to protect Rahul from bad press in such a scenario. Whether public buys this or not is a different matter altogether.

    The BJP, I do not know whether they have any ‘clever’ excuse or not, if they do badly. Going by their track record – they will probably will end up blaming others or the rest of the world for their woes – never themselves. As Gopi keeps reminding us – they work overtime to lose – whether it is going to be same story in UP this time is hard to say.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Nothing more needs to be said here

    Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) activists in Chandigarh stalled the shooting on Friday of Oscar-winning Hollywood director Kathryn Bigelow’s film on al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden’s killing.

    The members of the Hindu right wing group raised objections over the creation of film set resembling a Pakistani market, including hoardings and banners, and flying of a Pakistani flag in the area, Manimajra Station house officer of Manimajra police station, Rajesh Shukla, said the police called both parties and sorted out the issue.
    The shooting resumed at around 5 pm near sector 26, around 3km from the original site.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You must be sad that the film is about Osama ! Anyway you got an opportunity to get the VHP here. Blind as you are to jehadi causes you could not see that there was a film being made about Pakistanis who were jehaids and in league with terrorist called Osama who also wanted to bomb India.

    You could have talked about the shallowness of leaders who teach jehad and shortcomings in Islam whoch produces suicide bombers like Atta ,Ejgirch and kasab. But somehow you got in VHP…

    Funny !!

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I leave those important topics for you to teach in Shishu Mandirs

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I was surprised to see VHP oppose film on Osama..They should have acted as extras in the movies and in dramatic scenes stoned the corpse of Ravi’s hero Osama.

    Fools..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Gopi

    Nice to know that u did Engineering ! I thought u were a history teacher.

    I did my Engineering a few years back… moved into construction and commerce but back into hardcore…..:) Hardcore engineering I mean… now ! But after having forgotten part of it….

    Let me now throw a historical question on thought engineering !

    Question: At some point all invaders have used religion as a tool to destroy lands and cultire of other people. However over a period of time the core beleifs of the invading religon have tampered and chiselled themselves to adjust to other cultures.

    In case of Islam since major funding comes from the Saudi royal family who are Anti- democracy when and how do you see the softening will happen so that the Sufi Islam of Bulle Shah and the fusion of religions Akbar talked about actually happen?

    Will it really happen before the armageddon , Before a nuclear holocast happens…..

    (sorry for all spelling mistakes as I shuttling between grey water recycling and this blog !)

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Whatever happens in UP, UPA will be busy with fixing the damage or leveraging any new strength in UP for the electoral victory in Lok Sabha elections. That means zilch on the economic and developmental front.

    the last quarter’s 6.1% was the lowest in three years, and the seventh consecutive quartely slo wdown. This type of slow growth affects the lofty goals set 1) eradicating poverty wthin a gneration, and assuming the “rightful” place in the front rank of global powers. Both these goals depend on an economy growing at the 9% plus clip.
    The short-sighted “populism” of UPA has sacrificed an opportunity to transform the country. This populism measures will only continue to grab votes.

    let us hope politicians of all stripes understand the impact of slow growth and act on changing the course

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Last 5-6 quarters have seen Governance freeze because of many factors. So the slow down was inevitable. But I hope things would start looking up now.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Utter BAKWAS by Vinod Sharma. This blog article , is flabby like vinod himself. I mean it is so superficial. . No analysis of UP society , no analysis of economic indicators no sociological angle. A few dimes from NDTV and vinod has lost all interest in the blog. As usual bloggers will hijack to the topic more dear to them than sex, that is modi , bjp pakistan congress.
    Anybody interested in discussing Woody Allen or Oliver stone.
    Both are great director , barring Ray and probably ghatak , india has not produced any one anywhere near the duo.
    Has any blogger seen any of their film.
    Come back with your choice.
    My commentary will follow.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Shan

    Funny you ask.

    First Woody Allen film I saw was….Every Thing You Always Wanted to Know About Sex * But Were Afraid to Ask…..

    I guess you were too young to see it back then.

    What about Cohen Brothers, Alan Parker, etc.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think , thanks to Love Films , seen all of woody’s film.
    The one you mention is HILLARIOUS.
    I remember there were two or three stories. The BEST one was the one where GENE WILDER whose own sex life is flat,one day meets this guy from turkey in his clinic. Initially he is mad , The turkish guy , has brought his SHEEP who is apparently that turkish guy’s lover, The sheep now has become indifferent to the turkish guy.
    He gene wilder to treat the sheep, so that the sheep respond favourably to the the turkish guy’s amorous feelings.
    What is INCREDIBLE it how that story ends

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I thought that was hilarious, also do you remember the one where Woody Allen is dressed as sperm about to shoot out of an aeroplane, the one liners in that scene are superb.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Congressi-Jihadi axis can hijack any blog at any time in the name of Modi or for defending Congress or condoning death of Rajiv Gandhi as closure to riots or suggest murder of Modi as closure for 2002 riots.

    Anyway let me know if you agree with Ravi’s logic on closure of riots..according to him-

    1984 riots closure —-> Death of Rajiv Gandhi
    2002 riots closure —–> Suggested death of hated CM

    Do you agree with his brilliant Jihadi analysis?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    There is a limit to foolishness, clunky lad ! You seem to have carried it to even to this new blog post. After sometime, we thought it to be a genuine mistake on your part. We gave you a benefit of doubt. But you seem to be hell bent on drawing the public attention to your foolishness. As they say you are beyond a fix !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You gave me benefit of doubt???? You clunky old ****, Ulta chor Kotwal ko daatein..

    You are even afraid to use your real ID and create fake ID every month..Prabhat to Prahalad to Dhawan..Have you any shame left?

    Your hatred for fellow Indians is making you support a terrorist, You surely are a first rate moron.

    Shan does not want to embarrass you and Jehadi and this is the reason he is keeping quiet. We still remember when he commented about Ravi ghastly looks, Ravi the terrorist did not appear on blogs for few days.

    Now old ****..Don’t act like ravi’s husband? Let that lady deal with me directly.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Did I call you clunky ? How appropriate !

    Hope you don’t go this far justifying stupid mistakes in your professional life as well ! It must be costing the corporate a hell of lot.

    And if you carry the same trait in your personal life, it might just cause some innocent relative / friend of yours a great deal of loss because of your stupidity someday.

    Making mistake is not a big deal. But going miles to prove it right is.

    I am sure you have not done this kind of silly mistake first time in your life. There must have been a pattern to your thought process. Alert your awareness. Be aware. It’s for your own good. More you talk about it, more foolish you sound.

    “…mera shan bhai ko aane do…main dekh lunga…eeee…eee”

    You are not only embarassing yourself, your silly act must have been embarassment to others as well.

    Move on, clunky lad !

    Anonymous Reply:

    Did I call you clunky ? How appropriate !

    Hope you don’t go this far justifying stupid mistakes in your professional life as well ! It must be costing the corporate a hell of lot.

    And if you carry the same trait in your personal life, it might just cause some innocent relative / friend of yours a great deal of loss because of your stupidity someday.

    Making mistake is not a big deal. But going miles to prove it right is.

    I am sure you have not done this kind of silly mistake first time in your life. There must have been a pattern to your thought process. Alert your awareness. Be aware. It’s for your own good. More you talk about it, more foolish you sound.

    “…mera shan bhai ko aane do…main dekh lunga…eeee…eee”

    You are not only embarassing yourself, your silly act must have been embarassment to others as well.

    Move on, clunky lad !

    Anonymous Reply:

    Looks like the tail is still on fire and no one to extinguish it, must be really painful, but then false pride prevents him from extinguishing it himself, as a result more anger and outbursts of the lowest common variety.

  • Anonymous

    Blame me not Rahul if UP poll results not in our favour: Digvijaya Singh

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Blame-me-not-Rahul-if-UP-poll-results-not-in-our-favour-Digvijaya-Singh/articleshow/12114618.cms

    Congress general secretary Digvijaya Singh on Friday said he and not Rahul Gandhi should be held responsible if election results in Uttar Pradesh are not in favour of the party.

    He also refused to put the blame on Rahul, who had led the party’s campaign in Uttar Pradesh, in case of such an eventuality.

    ———

    Read on. Looks like Operation-Protect-Rahul-Gandhi has begun.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well, Digryodhan Singh is the chief promoter of the family.

    Mrs Gandhi is again out for treatment (isnt it really strange that the media has not covered/speculated about this…is it the media maturity or the fear of dhanda) — So Digryodhan must have taken the responsibility of protecting and guiding the prince regent

    (btw read about Swathi Thirunal Maharaja, an erstwhile prince regent of Travancore royal family who accomplished a lot in his 32 years)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    If you need to meet a sycophant – just trudge to the nearest Congress party office. Look no further.

    There are certain individuals in this country who can do no ‘wrong’, hence cannot be held ‘responsible’.

    Regrading Mrs. Gandhi’s treatment – we should all leave it aside, it is a personal matter.

    I will surely check out Swathi Thirunal Maharaja and come back to post my thoughts.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Bad news for Modi fans.

    A) Gujarat HC cancels complaint against Sanjiv Bhatt

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gujarat-hc-cancels-complaint-against-sanjiv-bhatt_1657718

    In a relief to suspended IPS officer Sanjiv Bhatt, the Gujarat High court today quashed a complaint filed against him for furnishing false information with the intention of evading summons in connection with a case pertaining to illegal confinement of a police constable.

    The court also set aside all the proceedings initiated against Bhatt by the magistrate calling it an “abuse of law”.

    ———-

    B) Encounter killings: SC brushes aside allegation of Gujarat government

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Encounter-killings-SC-brushes-aside-allegation-of-Gujarat-government/articleshow/12113562.cms

    The Supreme Court on Friday brushed aside the allegation of Gujarat government that it was “selectively” targetted on human rights issue and the same yardstick was not applied in dealing with cases of alleged encounter killings in other states.

    “You bring human rights violations from other states. You will find we will respond with same alacrity,” a bench comprising justices Aftab Alam and Ranjana Prakash Desai said.

    C) Muslims are Gujarat’s new outcastes: Survey

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_muslims-are-gujarats-new-outcastes-survey_1657290

    Excerpt

    The survey has revealed that Muslims are the new outcastes who, more often than not, are denied basic facilities which are available to people of other communities. Not only that. It appears that this neglect of the community is officially sanctioned for the riot victims find no mention in government records as people who need help.

    —————-

    Read on.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I look forward to reading the response of chief Modi Fan here

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    It looks like media trial is still ongoing and some interested persons are celebrating a very premature win.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,
    I may not agree with Congressi-Jihadis on lot of things but I am of the view that guilty should be punished and truth should come out provided that justice and truth is not tailor made for either parties.

    Let truth and justice prevail in real sense.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Rajeev;
    who said anything about injustice should be perpetuated. In fact injustice is root cause of so many ills causing havoc in Indian society. Modi saga is a puzzel wrapped in engima and enclosed by conundrum. Part time pundits, including me should desist from making announcement of victory or defeat.

    engrich Reply:

    hitler won all elections before he destroyed germany.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj

    Media trial?

    Is reporting court proceedings and surveys is a media trial? The survey can be questioned by others and countered.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    How only four cops saved 1,200 Muslim lives during Gujarat riots

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_how-only-four-cops-saved-1200-muslim-lives-during-gujarat-riots_1657047

    Excerpt

    When the police team started heading towards Ginjar village, they found that the road to the village had been blocked with trees cut down from the roadside. “The team then reached the spot via kaccha road in jeeps,” sources said.

    The officers had to open fire several rounds at the mob to break it. After struggling for a few hours, they finally managed to disperse the mob of around 10,000 people and saved the Muslims.

    Later, the police shifted these 1,200 Muslims to a school in Kheda town and deployed police for their security.

    ————-

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    Just goes to show that in absence of morally corrupt leadership the natural instincts of our police is to protect citizens from marauding rioters.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Morally Corrupt??? You should be last person to talk about morality and honesty.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The basic instinct of normal persons (which most of us are) and is also true for all other species is to protect and delay extinction (one’s own and of fellow beings). Any other behavior is deviant.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Looking at the various exist polls it looks like SP will lead followed by BSP, BJP and Congress..

    After looking at exit polls, my prediction is-
    1. SP: 140-150
    2. BSP: 100-110
    3. BJP: 80-90
    4. Congress: 30-40
    5. RLD: 10-20

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    UP’s divided politics and this blog”””””””””””””’

    Soon the results will be announced and we will see the corrosive damage done to the cohesion of the country by militant casteists and minority appeasers. It seems Akhilesh Yadav- he of the ‘give muslims reservation to the tune of their proportion in poulation’ fame- and some bloggers here read the same garbage websites of dalit.org and mufti says.com.

    And then listen to this video shot DURING the Mumbai attacks where Ashok Pandit has an extempore rant against the hindu and India haters who caused Hemant Karkare’s death. This video is superb, could be me- Dr Mishra- railling against the hindu hater, India underminer, sleaze merchant extra-ordinaire – RAVI- who produced sheer poison with his pen in the last blog.

    Centuries of slavery has resulted in several such twisted minds.

    UP elections- despair wins. The land of my birth UP , condemned to 17th century backwardness- I visited Agra in August 2011- world class monuments in a very dirty city, and sad to say the muslim mohallas were the worst. But no one cares- they are busy attacking the forward castes and building elephants and reading Martha Nussbaum and Nirad Choudury

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge8PV2yB_rA

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    Has it ever occurred to you that it may be it is your mind that is full of poison, planted there by the Hinduatvadis. You are a perfect example of a person who refuses to distinguish between India and Hindusthan (note the deliberate -h- in here).

    I very firmly believe that not only you are full of communal poison, but that you are on a mission to distribute it.

    You are morally corrupt and unnecessarily arrogant with it.

    I am yet to see one decent argument from you, I see a lot of sweeping under the carpet and baseless jingoism passed on as swabhiman.

    Absolutely nothing wrong with Prof Martha Nusbaum, she has the measure of likes of you.

    Now scoot along like you did last time.

    BTW, I hope your trip to Ghaziabad is fruitful, where your character refernce to the Talwars – your dinner party friends – will undoubtedly help them.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is what Mishra sees , when he looks into a mirror

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    That one you mention is actually CONCEPTION /copulation being parodied, and compared with a SPACE MISSION. With mission control , waiting for the ejaculation/orgasm , just like the count down for lift off in space missions.
    Woody is a astronaut/sperm , space walk / ejaculate /conception. There is great one liner . He asks his fellow “sperms”. “What if he is masturbating , am I going to end up on a wall” , Then he says “WELL ATLEAST HE IS JEWISH”

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Superbly recounted. Did you also see an odd black sperm in there.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes that was funny. Also the only film of Coen brother that I have seen is FARGO.It was very good , particularly the setting. I haven’t seen THE BIG LEBROWSKI,
    Did you know Sir Alan parker decided to become a film director after watching Satyajit Ray’s films. I have seen his Missisipi Burning , It was outstanding, I haven’t seen EVITA.
    You must see the iranian film I spoke before called A SEPARATION
    won Oscar this year.You can get it from Love films.
    By the way , when you say you are in projects and some days work from home , Are you in IT ?ATOS?CAPITA? CAP GEMINI

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Name Dropping & Game Dropping

    Anatomy of a Dr Mishra post

    EXAMPLE – 1

    Fellow blogers yours truly met (insert here the name of someone famous) when I was at a dinner party hosted by (insert here a name of even more famous person) we started to discuss (insert here anti-Muslim/yoga/Ayurveda/imaginary glorious past from Indian History) and I found that we shared similar views – designed to bask in someone else’s intellectual gravity and to court acceptability and popularity.

    Or

    EXAMPLE – 2

    Only the other day I went to (insert here a 32ft Sea going boat/some exotic holiday destination) and I was (insert here some sexy sporty pursuit) and in the evening we were relaxing with a glass of (insert here some fancy drink), when I told fellow guests about how 3000 years before Dr Christian Barnard did, India had already pioneered heart transplant or how at the age of 32 I and I alone was promoted to be a Consultant Physician, etc.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    good one

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    The Gujarat Experiment have established certain laws:
    To kill Muslims at a large scale, the BJP must be in power at all levels, starting from the district to Delhi.
    The Police must back-up and kill Muslims wherever it can.
    Later on, the civil administration must do all that it can to wipe clean evidence against prominent personalities who are culpable for the riots.
    The judicial system must move very slowly indeed, if at all some FIRs are registered and the cases are put up to the courts.
    Any medical help and insurance or governmental aid should be delayed or even refused.
    The vanquished widows, orphans and others must be denied entry into their villages and homes – that would yield precious real estate to the victors.
    However, what should be done to those who are still languishing in shelters and camps – thats still being worked out and would be known after the next elections

    by abu ahmad

    [Reply]

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    Both husband (Ravi) and wife (engrich) work together on this in shuaag raat bliss.

    Mr Pasha khush hua. Re 2 sent to account for serving ISI

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    my assesment says that mayawati will come topower with better margin than before.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Folks,

    An interesting (and horrible) thing happened today.

    There was a strong tornado in the midwest, and a whole small town disappeared – no buildings, no trees, no towers – just flat land remained.

    There was 1500 or so residents in the town; the authorities are not sure how many perished. The hope is that all or most left town and stayed in the security of tornado shelters in nearby safe towns)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Binoy have you ever witnessed a tornado

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Ravi is on Shan buttering spree..reason??? :)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Something very very fake about RAVI, totaly INSINCERE

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    RAVI, MASK SLIPS ALLATIME
    __________________________________
    Notice dear blogers even in week where we have castrated Ravi for his devious posts, he tries to slip more antiIndian abuse and snide remarks.
    “ayurveda and Imaginary glorious past of Indian history”
    There is something sick about you, the contrast between you and Vijay is like desh premi and desh drohi, so pl you stay away from sniping at him. It is getting repetitive and distasteful

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    This is what Balwinder sandhu sees , when he is looking into a mirror

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER
    Why SMUG B Mishra and his SIDEKICK Balls Kabuterbaj Bhondhu keeps banging about swabhimaan.
    HERE IS ONE SWABHIMAAN IN ACTION
    he Congress leader began his life in Mumbai in 1973 as a vegetable seller, but now is reportedly one of the richest politicians in the country.

    Kripashankar and his family, whose reported source of income is just a salary of Rs 45,000, now owns a sea-facing bungalow, at least seven large flats in some of the costliest locations across Mumbai, several thousand square feet of commercial property and hundreds of acres of land in and out of Maharashtra.

    Mumbai Congress chief till last week, Kripashankar and his family have now also been booked for criminal misconduct under the Prevention of Corruption Act, criminal conspiracy, cheating and forgery.

    CNN-IBN has accessed details of 22 bank accounts of Kripashankar’s family, which give details of his rise from rags to riches. The Samata Sahakari Bank account number 18966 belonging to his son Narendramohan Singh witnessed a turnover of Rs 60 crore between 2007 and 2009. On paper Narendramohan Singh has no known sources of income.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Cingulate

    This is about corruption and I dont see what Balwinder or Dr mishra have to do with it.

    It is accidental that the rivalry between Kripa Shankar and Prithivi Raj Chavan got the loot out, otherwise the media had certified that Krip Shankar was honest as he was from the Congress– including Sujata Anandan from her blog in the HT.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Those two trolls are RABIDLY COMMUNAL , and represent a viewpoint that will only take india down. These gnomes see only one problem in India , and that is the presence or behaviour of muslims.
    The above example of a “cow belt” expatriate in Bombay was given to PUNCTURE the tall claims of swabhimaan.
    As they say CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME
    OR LOOK IN THE MIRROR
    Those trolls when they look in to the mirror , they see what I have posted

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Cingulate,

    What type of name is this ?

    You are not wrong in observing this. They look like fake to me believing in slogan shouting . According to me they are
    fake and do not practice what they preach.

    Sometimes they write very nice things also.
    This is MY opinion only, I may be wrong.

    Anonymous Reply:

    cingulate gyrus is a particular part of brain where “emotions” are generated

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    You must have directed this post to Congressis like Manohar. It has nothing to do with India. India still suffers from Congress culture.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ WHY WE NEED TO DIVIDE UP ~~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    The result will again prove that UP is too big to be shaken by issues of governance, competence or honesty. It is only caste (Mulayam and Mayawati) or religion ( Congress ) which matter.

    I think we need to divide this elepahant fast. UPiites– Parveen, Rajeev , Pervez…. should write more about thisl.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay
    Dividing UP in principle is not a bad idea , for better governanace ,but sufficient preparatory work has to be done before. The way Mayawati did it , it was more of a political gimmick.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Sanjay in the previous blog you wrote -

    Vajpayee, the man who gave respectability to the BJP was more in Nehruvian mould.

    Advani finally understood that to be the PM of India, he had to take everybody along. Only mistake he did was that he thought his followers would too switch as quickly and unpredictably as he did. He forgot nothing happens in real time when you have to lead a large country like India. And too many conflicting signals do not help. Confusion and chaos can only help you to some extent, but will not help you reach there.

    Like in telecom parlance, communication with a large audience must be like in Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) model.

    —————
    Very true,

    Atal Behari Vajpayee was the right man in the wrong party. Only if he had been in a party like say Swatantra Party (a force to reckon with in 60s) and perhaps with his skills and qualities would have taken the party to even greater heights, as there would not have been the unwanted Hindutva/RSS baggage to drag along.

    The only jarring note (and he can be forgiven for that) in his great career culminating in holding the post of the Prime Minister (which Pandit Nehru had predicted) was that infamous speech in Goa.

    There is nothing to add to what you have to say about L K Advani.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I guess we all loved Vajpayee despite of his few handicaps. But to the large extent he was like Sachin. Too engrossed in himself. Never took a stance or tried to give his party a definite contour. He depended on the RSS to do that. In a way he depended on the current to flow along.

    He was always known for his lateral entry to the parties. Never really made an effort to make the party happen.

    In that sense, Advani did far better. He tried to define his party ( wrongly / rightly). He coined phrases and tried to push the party in a direction. But his bad experience during partition must have made him stay captive to a very narrow thought. Besides, he loved manipulating. He saw the power in public psych manipulation. Infact, the resultant of public psych manipulation is a huge heady feeling. Some calibrate to the right effect like many religious leaders do. But Advani stretched it a little far. And like Ponting or Sachin, he too faltered and became an eye sore. Sad but true.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad,

    Why compare Mr. Vajpayee with Sachin ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashutosh,

    Both Vajpayee and Sachin are a bit individualistic, less team centric.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad,

    I would not like to go in a long debate on this topic
    but will only cite two examples of Sachin where he
    helped his team mates .

    1. During the tour of NZ just before world cup 2003,
    almost all the Indian batsmen were finding very difficult
    to bat in heavy swinging conditions. After 1st match
    Sehvag has able to handle the situation and he scored
    two centuries on that tour . At the end of tour he
    thanked Sachin for teaching him how to play in these
    difficult conditions.

    2. In Sri Lanka, Indians were not able to face the
    bowling of new bowler – Ajanta Mendis -who had a different action while delivering a ball.
    - Yuvraj scored a century in one ODI and later thanked
    Sachin for teaching him how to counter Mendis.
    Ajanta Mendis has perhaps already become history.

    Sachin has always been and team player and will always remain till he is playing for India.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashutosh,

    When I said they both are “individualistic”, I meant in relative sense. One needs to see the overall picture spanning over months and years to draw a conclusion.

    They both are brilliant. There has been no attempt to make them look silly or sort. They both are extra-ordinary.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prabhat,

    What I understood from your post that
    Sachin is not a team player, hence my
    reply. By the way Ashutosh is a nice
    name, I will ask my wife and my children whether they will mind if I change my name.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashutosh,

    I thought that was a name ( Ashutosh ) “Dukh” was used to, but you preferred to be known as “Mohan” ( on forum ) because “Sukh” found your dimple irresistable and “Mohan like”.

    A little bird told me she ( Sukh ) feels real gudgudi ( kuchh kuchh hota hai kind ) whenever she calls you Mohan.

    Good that you finally remembered about your Wife and Children.

    So giving up flings with Sukh is not such a bad idea at all.

    Welcome home Ashutosh !

    Ravi Reply:

    Bhagvan ji

    Both have significant brilliance about them.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ MOhan…

    Arre baba… prabhat/prhalad used the same anology, the same, terms, the same partition thing to describe Advani.

    Daal mein kuch kaala. Sanjay Dhavan and Prabnhat… long lost brothers at the AOnla feritlser plant. One guy prosucing fertiliser… the other producing fertile ideas on this blog!

    Anonymous Reply:

    I guess you need to devote little more time and energy to understand your leaders and their thought processes. Use your scientific temperament. It could be quite revealing.

    H2O whenever analysed, wherever analysed, gave the same element break ups.

    Anonymous Reply:

    (: (:

    I am missing those smiley faces.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Totally irrelevant to the topic in discussion. Are you trying to derail it by shooting at the messenger, as you normally attempt? You will not succeed. If you cannot add anything meaningful, please stand outside and just watch.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Totally irrelevant to the topic in discussion. Are you trying to derail it by shooting at the messenger, as you normally attempt? You will not succeed. If you cannot add anything meaningful, please stand outside and just watch.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Leave Sachin aside.

    As I see it, Vajpayee was not able to assert himself because of the (towering ) presence of Golwalkar and then Deoras as the heads of the RSS. By 1993, it was perhaps too late for him to start asserting himself. That is why I was wondering had been with the a party like the Swantantra Party, he would have been a major player along with the likes of Rajagopalachari, N G Ranga Rao, Piloo Mody, Gayatri Devi and K M Munshi, and who knows the party would have occupied the vacant right-of-the-centre space in the Indian polity (which the BJP is unable to occupy for reasons well known).

    IMO, the cardinal mistake Advani (or rather the RSS) made in quest for power was to misjudge the Indian ethos. Their calculation that by alienating and targeting the minorities would result in bonanza of the Hindu vote in their favour. For a time in the 90s, it seemed they were winning, however, it turned out to be an illusory. The Indian at large is far too tolerant of things foreign and does not mind even accepting and assimilating them. In that sense, his attempts to define a direction to his party was a sheer case of short-sightedness. Perhaps, he did that because of the overbearing influence of the Hindutva ideology and missed the wood from the trees.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    Pristine logic.

    BJP/RSS have as yet not calculated that negative campaign can take them only so far and no further.

    In India a national party has to have INCLUSIVE policies.

    Anonymous Reply:

    That’s the difference between the good and the great.

    Though analogy is not fair, I am drawing your attention to Ratan TATA. Think of all the tall personalities and satraps he was overshadowed with when he started. The man’s quiet dignity and assertiveness finally helped him create a space for himself. He proved detractors wrong and managed TATA groups like the best professional in town. Today more than 58% revenue comes from the overseas business. That’s what I call marque. A personal signature style that overwhelms the organisation and sets the tone.

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay

    Are you suggesting that like Ratan Tata, Vajpai should have stayed within the RSS tent and continued his work in a dignified manner and in time he would have gained authority.

    If you are then it is an interesting hypothesis. One wonders what shape the RSS would have assumed, had Vajpai risen to the top post.

    Anonymous Reply:

    A good leader is driven and consumed by his conviction.

    An alliance is all about the common interest.

    But the leadership is all about making a difference. That difference comes only through a strong conviction, not a loose alignment of ideas.

    See how Nitish gave a new meaning to Bihar in just a short while. It does not matter what happens in future, but he gave that pride to people from Bihar that they have so desperately been looking for in recent times !

    Ravi Reply:

    Agree

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    There is a subtle difference, Ratan Tata was anointed the boss and all those satraps who did not fall in line were out in the cold. To me that was very unfortunate and the way it happened at that point in time , especially so because of the fact Ratan Tata did have any track record to write home about – today when one looks back perhaps that is best thing that happened to the Tata Group – thank JRD Tata for choosing the right successor.

    I doubt Vajpayee would have ever been able get out of the shadows of the RSS, Golwalkar and Deoras, and assert himself. Even today, I doubt anything major can happen in the BJP without that (prior) nod from Mohan Bhagwat.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    There is a subtle difference, Ratan Tata was anointed the boss and all those satraps who did not fall in line were out in the cold. To me that was very unfortunate and the way it happened at that point in time , especially so because of the fact Ratan Tata did have any track record to write home about – today when one looks back perhaps that is best thing that happened to the Tata Group – thank JRD Tata for choosing the right successor.

    I doubt Vajpayee would have ever been able get out of the shadows of the RSS, Golwalkar and Deoras, and assert himself. Even today, I doubt anything major can happen in the BJP without that (prior) nod from Mohan Bhagwat.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Perhaps anybody else in Ratan Tata’s place would have flowed along the current and become a figure head. If you remember how those satraps managed their territories, it would have only a hugely potential talent to upset them.

    If you look at my post below, somebody at the top needed to re-engineer RSS and destiny could have been so different. India could have a powerhouse with a solid backbone, not with few loose limbs.

    That Vajpayee couldn’t have come out of RSS biggies’ shadow is the exact inadequecy in him we are talking about.

    Anonymous Reply:

    One can only make conjectures as to where the Tata Group would be today in case someone else had been at the helm.

    Coming back to Vajpyaee. Golwalkar and Deoras were far too powerful for anyone dare take them on. We talk of inner-party democracy (rather lack of it) in Indian politics, in the RSS, the very concept of democracy does not exist (it is a closed club), therefore there was no way Vajpayee would have taken the organisation on or dare to. Yes, that may be the inadequacy you are talking about, otherwise he may not have stayed with the RSS.

    There are reports that he did manage to large extent to keep the RSS at bay during his tenure as the Prime Minister, given the fact that the RSS honchos then did not have same level of moral authority of the earlier ones.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vajpayee managed to keep RSS at bay for a while. But slowly he became handicapped as the power started getting concentrated around Advani. Suddenly there was checkmate situation.

    However, these things are rather marginal.

    We would have loved Vajpayee to do something substantial, not just a little cosmetic.

    And he would not have been known as just another leader.

    Should we say the potential never realised !

    Or, the opportunity got wasted !

    Anonymous Reply:

    Perhaps anybody else in Ratan Tata’s place would have flowed along the current and become a figure head. If you remember how those satraps managed their territories, it would have only a hugely potential talent to upset them.

    If you look at my post below, somebody at the top needed to re-engineer RSS and destiny could have been so different. India could have a powerhouse with a solid backbone, not with few loose limbs.

    That Vajpayee couldn’t have come out of RSS biggies’ shadow is the exact inadequecy in him we are talking about.

  • Anonymous

    PMs not-in-waiting
    Barkha Dutt

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/BarkhaDutt/PMs-not-in-waiting/Article1-819909.aspx

    Excerpt

    It all sounds nice and exciting except for one small problem. Don’t be surprised if – for different reasons – neither politician ends up being their party’s nominee for the country’s top political job.

    ——————–

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    PMs not-in-waiting
    Barkha Dutt

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/BarkhaDutt/PMs-not-in-waiting/Article1-819909.aspx

    Excerpt

    It all sounds nice and exciting except for one small problem. Don’t be surprised if – for different reasons – neither politician ends up being their party’s nominee for the country’s top political job.

    ——————–

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The news of of bugging of the the Defence Ministers’s office is very serious . Mnay questions arise ,even though the govt denies it, in a general manner, but leaving some questions unanswered in its statement.
    The internal security surveillance of Army HQ and Defence Ministry is under IB , then why was MI called to sweep in the first place . Who called the MI ? and when they reported some unusual activity , why were they immediately asked to leave? The obvious inference is that those who called in MI were suspecting something amiss but did not trust IB.
    After Pranab Mukerji’s office , this is the second instance where a top Minister , heading the most sensitive Ministry did not trust IB under P Chidambaram but called another agency .
    Something is seriously wrong with the functioning of this government. Common people like us can only pray and hope that secrets of the country are not being leaked and security is not being breached. The government seems to scattered all over the place . There is a PM who is nothing but a rubber stamp who nobody cares for and his own partymen keep humilitating him now and then.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Praveen,

    I was also shocked when I read this news of bugging at Defence Ministry.
    It seems that security of the sensitive departments have been compromised
    and surprisingly media is also taking it very lightly as I have not seen any
    serious follow up to these incidents.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    The poison of anti Hindu anti-Indian websites””””””’

    As in this blog, so in life ppl are reading f mindless shit from mufti says .com and militant dalit . com. These people then enter blogs like these and spew their F shit here.

    Most rioys happen like this- watch how this riot enfolded- In Miraj and Sangli 2009, muslims objected to a painting of Shivaji slaying Afzal Khan. They started rioting and smashed hindu idols. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HINDUS HAD BURNED QURAN IN PAKISTAN
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/Politics+of+hatred+grips+Maharashtra+hinterland/1/65726.html

    AND WATCH THIS VIDEO- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoopSdiqipo

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    these 5% of muslims who are hypersensitive to a fault and start the violence ( a la Godhra) make life difficult for the likes of Pervez, Shoeb and Syed bhai)

    That is why although we all tolerate RAVI’s weekly underming shit THE WHOLE BLOG ERUPTED IN FURY OVER HIS BRAINLESS TWISTING OF FACTS AND LOGIC to further his divisive agenda

    Gopi’s one line condemnation was the best

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    It seems Dr Mishra has taken to reading anti-Hindu web-sites and that has impaired his already meagre capability of making rational judgments. He has ceased to function as a human being and has now become a full-time Hindu Activist.

    Like many others here he reads into items meanings, his deeply saffronised conditioning allows him to read. Like even after fully knowing that I possess a copy of Clash Within: Democracy, Religious Violence, and India’s Future by Martha Nussbaum and frequently quote from it, he imagines that I get these quotes from muftisays.com and other anti-Hindu sites.

    I would like Dr Mishra to post links to muftisays.com from where he thinks I have taken quotes I reproduce here.

    I don’t.

    Further more I am not alone in trying to expose the REAL COMMUNAL nature of Modi’s regime.

    This is from the HT and not some anti-Hindu site.

    Expressing concern over reports from journalists and human rights groups about alleged complicity of Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi in the 2002 violence; the resolution commends the US Government for denying a visa to Modi in 2005 on the grounds of a religious freedom violation under the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998.

    Read on…http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Americas/US-House-resolution-asks-Modi-to-restore-religious-freedom/Article1-820078.aspx

    Dr Mishra get this into your thick skull – being anti HINDU RIGHT is not the same as being anti HINDU. I know it is a concept much beyond the capability of a simple devotee like you. But please at least show some effort to comprehend.

    Learn to argue from your own strengths rather than make a transparent attempt at gathering votes, to see if you can hound some one out.

    Time to scoot Dr Mishra.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    I have several times on this blog expressed deep concern over Modi. Dont distract- we are talking about your deeply offensive and moronic long post linking Punjab with Gujrat over which this blog ERUPTED IN FURY

    Ravi Reply:

    This blog did not errupt in a fury. It reacted to a convoluted and totally unsustainable interpretation that RajeevS put on my post.

    Sanjay, Mahesh and Manohar, repeatedly asked these blog rioters as what is it that they found offensive. Not one person referred to any text….You allow your-self to be led by RajeevS because it fits in with your world view.

    This is not the first time Dr Mishra you have used this cheap trick.

    Once again get this in your thick skull, I am ANTI HINDU RIGHT, and not anti HINDU.

    Feel free to discuss elements of my post with me. I am game.

    I await for you to start a – point by point – discussion on the contents of my post. I have a free morning apart from the weekly shop which I have to do.

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    Rs 1 from Kiyani for anti India post givne in ur account. Where is your wife Ehgrich today? Is he/she serving Pasha in entertaining manner to earn re 1 from ISI?

    Anonymous Reply:

    If Dr.Mishra is a fake (like yourself), why did you beg him to save you from ebing expelled from this blog, last year?

    In fact, you entreated him asking him to be the judge.

    Ravi Reply:

    Yes I did, because when against you a 10 day old lettuce leaf would be a better judge.

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    why you cannot be anti- Pak or anti Osama or anti-jehad for change?

    You will get re 1 for this post from ISI. Low grade propganda. Your wife Engri will also earn re 1 for each post from ISI

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ PAKISTAN’S fanatic CHANNELS which brainwash and our trolls extoll ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    Waiting for a meeting outside a company boardroom… where my partners do all the techno talk… and the dumb guy which is me, net surfs. Here is an article from today’s MINT. An eyeopener.

    The top four channels watched in Pakistan are Star Plus, Geo News, Sony and Colors. Of these, Star Plus has over three times the viewership of Geo News. Pakistanis get their news from local channels but their entertainment from Indian channels. This is so because it is not possible to produce entertainment in a moral society. If we think about it, entertainment can only be produced on the cusp of immorality. Because Pakistan is a pious society, it must borrow entertainment from India. This is why Pakistanis watch the same Bollywood movies as we do. What actually separates us from them is their news channels. Let us look at them.

    The first observation is that Pakistani news anchors begin their shows with a religious salutation.

    Geo’s flagship show is Capital Talk, hosted by Pakistan’s most famous anchor, Hamid Mir. He begins every show with: “Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim. As salaam o aleikum. Capital Talk mein khushamadeed (In the name of Allah, most beneficent and merciful. May peace be upon you. Welcome to Capital Talk).”

    Why assume all Pakistanis share your religion? And why inflict your piety on those who do? It is the equivalent of Arnab Goswami beginning his nightly broadcasts with “Jai Shri Ram!”

    Mir is not alone. This greeting is sounded out by Shahid Masood and Javed Chaudhry on Express News, Asma Chaudhry on Dunya News, Mushtaq Minhas on Aaj TV and any number of anchors. Geo’s Kamran Khan always ends his show with “Allah hafiz o nasir (May Allah protect you).”

    The second aspect is that the channels are in Urdu. There are a few Sindhi and Punjabi channels that aren’t significant. .

    The third observation is that the channels have strong religious content. This includes scholarly debate, often by first-rate intellectuals such as Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, but mostly it is reinforcing of faith. Frequently there is an attack of the most bigoted kind against fellow Pakistanis, such as those of Ahmedi confession.

    While the language is pleasing, therefore, the content is otherwise and often it is unhinged. One of the most repeated words in Pakistani media is “saazish” (conspiracy). Conspiracies are usually the doing of “Yahood-o-Hanood (Jews and Hindus)”, besides of course “Amrika”.

    This lunacy has no bounds. Nawaiwaqt’s Muhammad Ajmal Niazi once abused Geo News for being too soft on the West. Niazi did not refer to Geo by name, but said he meant the channel “jiska naam Yahoodi say milta hai” (whose name resembles “Jew”).

    Pakistanis see the Hindu’s evil hand in many things, including in acts that harmed India. Ajmal Kasab is not really Pakistani, but the Indian agent Amar Singh. This is the analysis of Zaid Hamid, who appears in his red beret as strategic affairs expert on Dawn News, Aaj TV, Dunya News and Samaa TV. He champions Ghazwa-e-Hind, a prophecy predicting Muslim conquest of India. This is debated as fact, the question being when it will come to fruition.

    Ahmed Quraishi is an anchor, column writer and international expert. In 2010, he reported stories on the monstrous doings of Indians he got from WikiLeaks. These were repeated by newspapers, and by former ambassador Zafar Hilaly in his column. Then it turned out Quraishi had invented it all. To be fair to Pakistanis, he was exposed as a fraud by a fellow (anonymous) Pakistani who runs the media blog Cafe Pyala. But Quraishi remains an anchor, columnist and expert. These warriors prosper because of the closed minds of the channels’ audience.

    Their free media is mostly a negative influence on Pakistanis. It validates their prejudices and makes it difficult for them to negotiate the modern world. And it isn’t all harmless. Samaa TV’s Meher Bukhari skewered Punjab governor Salmaan Taseer for his empathy towards a Christian woman accused of blasphemy. Taseer was then shot by his enraged bodyguard. Blogger Zia Ahmad wrote that Bukhari had “Taseer’s blood on her hands”. The damage is done on Urdu television and cannot be undone by English bloggers. Ghamidi, the Islamic scholar, fled Pakistan and now lives in Malaysia. He questioned the blasphemy law, and was savaged on the channels. “It became impossible to live there,” he told The Guardian.

    Pakistan had two English channels, Dawn News and Express 24/7. Dawn News went Urdu and Express 24/7 shut down. One reason both failed is that fewer Pakistanis speak English than they do Urdu. But English is also spoken by fewer Indians and yet English news channels take in most money here. The fact is that Pakistan’s wild discourse cannot be properly communicated in English. The Economist attacks me in its Johnson Language column of 6 February for holding this view with reference to Gujarat, but I believe it to be true.

    Pakistan does have balanced minds also on television. One is Geo’s Najam Sethi, for whose Lahore publication I write a column surveying the subcontinent’s Urdu, Hindi and Gujarati media. But it is a case of rotten apples comprising most of the basket.

    India is fortunate that its news television was early on dominated by those with open minds like Prannoy Roy in English and S.P. Singh at Aaj Tak in Hindi. Roy gave us the wonderful line-up of stars who dominate today across channels: Rajdeep Sardesai, Barkha Dutt, Vikram Chandra and Arnab Goswami. Familiar to us when only in their 20s, they have been on air for 17 years.

    The first three clung to Roy’s secular liberalism. Goswami was perceptive enough to understand that for middle-class Indians, the fault always lies outside, never within. He has created his angry persona, positioning himself as one of them, though I suspect this is an act.

    In Hindi, after Singh’s death, his tradition was carried forward by Uday Shankar at Aaj Tak and Star News. He made Hindi news television more urgent and tabloid-like, but kept it leaning on the liberal side. Shazi Zaman, Dibang, Naghma, and the rest have kept the medium respectable.

    True populism came to Hindi news with Rajat Sharma’s India TV. It was a relief that it appeared as stories about cows being kidnapped by aliens rather than the hardening of identity as happened in Pakistan.

    It must be admitted that the media in India is run by people who service a readership that is to the right of the editor on homosexuals’ rights, encounter killings, Muslim issues and such things.

    This separates us from Pakistan.

    SORRY FOR THE LONG POST. as it is nothing much was happening on the blog… except mindless hunting for RSS even in you hairloss !! :)

    [Reply]

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    Do not fool urself that Pakistani channel is joke. Here in Kashmir many people believe the communal hate and nonsense transmitted by Pak channel.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Why did you take such an effort to tell us what could have been said in just
    one line. — Pakistan is a gone case –

    - . Now we will have to face the consequences.
    Since you have posted about entertainment industry of India, now our friend
    Engrich will come and claim that all the female actresses are prostitutes,
    Salman Khan should be killed because he takes part in Ganpati,
    SRK should be banned/stonned because he has a temple in his house .
    Amitabh Bachchan is an evil brahmin who has kept a dalit Aishwarya at his home against her will.

    [Reply]

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    MOhanji,

    Do u think that Engrich himself believe all nonsense he write. He and Ravi get re 1 each from SHuja Pasha for all effort.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    hehe – mohan- “”Why did you take such an effort to tell us what could have been said in just
    one line. — Pakistan is a gone case –

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    hehe – mohan- “”Why did you take such an effort to tell us what could have been said in just
    one line. — Pakistan is a gone case –

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Mohan

    I think precis writing was taught to me in 9th class! Thanks for taking me back in school.

    I hope precis writing is taught to two of our friendes also!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    from right to left.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Mohan

    I think precis writing was taught to me in 9th class! Thanks for taking me back in school.

    I hope precis writing is taught to two of our friendes also!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    and Amir Khan is zionst pig marrying brhmnst pro………

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Viju

    Should we buy the bridge you build if u r netsurfing during technical discussions?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A nice article about people thinking differently. If we just accept the fact that
    all the people have different point of view on a particular subject, we will have
    a healthy environment. We have many people here on this blog who are oozing
    with knowledge and we should all take advantage of that.
    Sorry, guys if you all feel that I am preaching.

    http://devdutt.com/articles/canvas-of-my-world.html/comment-page-1#comment-7783

    P.S I am not promoting hinduism.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    PAKISTANI CHANNELS AND RAVI
    ——————————————————-
    Thank you desh premi- Vijay. Quite likely our desh drohi ravi has a channel of Geo tv in his house. But blogers let us teach RAVI final lesson this week, his glib atrocious asesment of Sikh riots showed what Shenoy saheb said- complete lack of sensitivity. Suddenly it hit me like avalanche- why I think ravi is sikh- NO SELF RESPECTING SIKH WOULD HAVE WRITTEN GUTTER WORDS LIKE- Indira and Rajiv dead, score even, sikhs have moved on

    But this jerk wanted to know above – “name one thing objectionable in what i said” Then listen khottey- you said ” RSS planned it all- they burnt the bogey, killed their own hindu kar sevaks and immediately started the anti muslim riots”" . You moron, is their a nutters guide to Outlandish and hurtful conspiracy theories of lunatics”" that you and all your jehadi ummah subscribe to? Yes hindus burnt their own in Godhra and Jews did 911.
    Total khacchhar ka dimaag
    Sorry sirji- did you say- CIA did 911 ? Go pose with your sick anti-indian literaure as if tehy were trophies. Can you not see how most have nothing but contempt for your last week’s posting

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shall I repeat ?

    What is your take on 1984 and 2002 riots?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    You tried to justify the killings of Kashmiri pandits by trying to say that they misbehaved with non pandits and deserved death.

    You have no take on the communalising of India by the COngress by Salman, Chotta Baba and Digiviansh and their promise to divide India into propotional job representation.

    You have no shoes for Digviansh SIngh who dismissed 26/11 as a “RSS ki Saazish.”

    Have some self respect man. Have some stance for your country when it is being divided on caste and communal llines by the COngress. Speak up when Congressis shut up their mouth, scared of jehadis.

    Are you going to live the rest of your life as a coward?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    You have “deliberately” played a huge mischief. A sort of mischief that only an illiterate and a sick mind can play. It was not expected from an intelligent engineer like you.

    You indulge in small mischiefs every now and then. But this is the biggest one you have indulged in.

    I am sure you will self reflect.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay Sir,

    Prabhat and Prahlad too used to call bloggers who nailed them “stupid” and of “sick mind”.

    This, besides, is fake ravi’s language too.

    You would better watch your language.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Good. Let’s mind our language.

    Let’s not forget that we talked about it.

    I am sure there will not be any further need of reminding each other about it.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Cmon have the guts to debate the cowardice of Digviansh who tottered in front of 26/11 terrorists. Are you scared to take a stance?

    JO Darr gaya woh mar gaya !!

    Thx for calling me illiterate. With an MTech from IIT and now doing a research on combining biophysics with psychology of how the human mind recognises gravity, air pressure and temperature– and then presnting it to doctors to further research in medicine… I do feel illiterate at times ! Thx for reminding me.

    You know cowardice does strange things to the human minds. Many of our leaders are afraid to give the death sentence to Afzal Guru– as they feel their own families can get targetted one day. SO they cook up reasons for not taking action.

    In fact Shiv Raj Patil even wanted to send Guru to Pakistan ! :)

    But nobody is under threat in a namelss faceless blog. It is easy to blame the victim for his plight. SO you can blame the Kashmiri Pandits. You can even say that all the terrorists are brhmn zions and Kasab is a Shiv Saink.

    You will only fool yourself.

    And the ISI will laugh all the way to Muridke to send more of their fauj here…

    Anonymous Reply:

    We will cross the bridge when it comes.

    I hit the ball when it reaches my bat. I do not chase half the crease down.

    And some refreshers on precis isn’t such a bad idea. At least it will help you cut down your passage length by one third and hopefully you would stick to the central idea.

    Step 1: Identify the central idea and stick to it.

    All other steps : please refer to Step 1.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Since you dont have replies you are trying dodging. My ninth class teacher woudl give a big zero to such students :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Both of us would be around to debate.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Jo Darr gaya woh mar gaya”!!

    “You know cowardice does strange things to the human minds”.

    How well spoken. You need examples from your own backyard? Tell me when to start.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad Sir,

    I will awnser (see, I have even learnt to spell like engrich, for your sake).

    1984 was NOT against Sikhs. it was done by Rajiv Gandhi’s brhmnst cronies, because Rajiv has brhmnst blood in him from his mother’s side.
    Also, 4000 Sikhs killed is all false. According to dalit.org, just 497 killed.
    Further, as per congress sandesh, the Sikhs were offered closure with Indira-Rajiv murders and the Sikh kaum is very happy at the offer anf have gratefully accepted “closure”

    As for 2002, fake Ravi Singh suggests the Muslims too can get closure by finishing off Modi.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Your observations are well known.

    I am looking forward to Balwinder’s observations.

    Anonymous Reply:

    thank you dear sanjay for question, in a hurry will answer you this weekend

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Balwinder

    Frankly I have started decipheirng him now. It is about self hate. He himself has a walrus moustache but atacks people with walrus moustaches…. painting them as Nazis.

    Wish I could give more but in the centre of drgs…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    thank you Vijay for background info on Sanjay. Despite that he will get honest answer to his question from me later

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rant of deranged खोता

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Sanjay
    Khalistanis did terrible things from 1984, fuelled also by Pakistan. They shot hindus in buses and tried to violently separate from India. I CONDEMN OPENLY.
    After Indira Gandhi’s death sikhs were hunted down like dogs and burnt or lynched in Delhi. It is wrong to say that it was a congressi riot. Hindus exploded in retaliation, yes Congress fuelled fire.

    Now blogers I will surprise you- COMMUNISTS AND RSS helped all victims of violence, hindu and sikh, where they could in Punjab and elsewhere, in 1980-84 khalistani phase and later from 84-92. And BJP played good role in Delhi riots (ravi you poser, you listening , they dod not teach this in your trophy books or poison jehadi websites eh ?)

    Sikhs are scarred by anti sikh riots even if they are aware of Bhindranwale’s role in having lit fire. I lost relatives in lunatic riots and I lost hindu relatives in khailistani violence (yes relatives- ravi – did not learn this in Lashkar writers workshop). So dont anyone ever repeat EVER try and play politics with Punjab deaths- we Sikhs are hard working and have rebuilt our lives and Punjab but we HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THOSE PAINFUL YEARS in which our own and others committed unspeakable crimes
    End of memories part 1
    feedback welcome from intelligent sensible blogers who do not read poison websites and literature. I welcome trus pakistanis like Usman Chowdhury even. SHAN YOU DOG, keep out of serious discussion

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You missed the 2nd part – 2002 riot.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    That part is the ‘problem’ here.

    Perhaps, you will get (if at all) a ‘wishy-washy’ or some vague answer.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I think you are lowering your standard by indulging in gut baazi.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo,

    some of these rootless people who do not at all believe in the unity and integrity of the nation like this congressi troll will do anything-even align with jihadi fundoos.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Do you still wish to get a response after your minder has already given his opinion? Going by his opinion, I do not seem to have any standard, so where is the question of lowering it.

    Keep in mind, the above question was asked earlier and there has been a thundering silence. Does it tell you a tale?

    I wonder whether you have gone through the posts in the previous, care to see my posts? There are two questions I had raised, which no one has had the courage to answer.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I must admit my guilt that I come to the blog only off and on. Got a kid in college to support !

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well, no need to feel guilty about it – family and especially the children come first. This blog be damned.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You pleasantly surprised us by not calling it a Congressi riot. But trust me it was not fully hindu riot. I definitely know people from other religions were part of it. This time the target was Sikh community. But they would have targetted people of another religion or community had there been a chance.

    Few organised attacks were from Trilokpuri. If you know kind of people who resided there back in 1984, you would look at 1984 riot differently.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ” they would have targeted people of another religion or community had there been a
    chance ”. Will you please care to elaborate?

    Anonymous Reply:

    It could have been North Indians vs South Indians in Delhi.

    Or, religion X vs religion Y.

    1984 Delhi Riot was an opportunistic one for people to loot. Because people who were involved were from a very different strata.

    Do I miss my Delhi of eighties ! Long wide roads, beautiful winter parties,cultural evenings….

    Suddenly it’s all gone. It’s a mad city now.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well said Balwinder. I can understand that this would be an emotional post for you as it would be for most Sikhs. Dont let fakes try to add insult to that traumatic period.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Balwinder

    You simpleton idiot.

    Now blogers I will surprise you- COMMUNISTS AND RSS helped all victims of violence, hindu and sikh, where they could in Punjab and elsewhere, in 1980-84 khalistani phase and later from 84-92. And BJP played good role in Delhi riots (ravi you poser, you listening , they dod not teach this in your trophy books or poison jehadi websites eh ?)

    This assumes that RSS is not duplicitous organisation. It is. Parts of it hit you hard, in a stealth way, and then other lower minions come and apply the balm.

    This is so you can have a +ve image of themselves in you. They succeeded.

    I am sure you have seen in DON films where goons go and soften the target and then DON comes and sooths the victim, pays some money.

    Job done.

    You are so nieve that you make Mr Gandotra appear as brain of Britain.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    PAKISTANI CHANNELS AND RAVI
    ——————————————————-
    Thank you desh premi- Vijay. Quite likely our desh drohi ravi has a channel of Geo tv in his house. But blogers let us teach RAVI final lesson this week, his glib atrocious asesment of Sikh riots showed what Shenoy saheb said- complete lack of sensitivity. Suddenly it hit me like avalanche- why I think ravi is sikh- NO SELF RESPECTING SIKH WOULD HAVE WRITTEN GUTTER WORDS LIKE- Indira and Rajiv dead, score even, sikhs have moved on

    But this jerk wanted to know above – “name one thing objectionable in what i said” Then listen khottey- you said ” RSS planned it all- they burnt the bogey, killed their own hindu kar sevaks and immediately started the anti muslim riots”" . You moron, is their a nutters guide to Outlandish and hurtful conspiracy theories of lunatics”" that you and all your jehadi ummah subscribe to? Yes hindus burnt their own in Godhra and Jews did 911.
    Total khacchhar ka dimaag
    Sorry sirji- did you say- CIA did 911 ? Go pose with your sick anti-indian literaure as if tehy were trophies. Can you not see how most have nothing but contempt for your last week’s posting

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ WHY THE PUNJAB PROBLEM WAS SOLVED~~ an utter honest take from a
    ——————————-Punjabi who saw it up close ~~——————————————-

    I have made a number of postings about Punjab and frankly made them honestly making sure that none of my own prejudices (if any) show up. Here is my next one… I hope it contributes in some manner to understanding why the Punjab problem got over.

    THE REASON BY RAVI THAT THE DEATH OF INDIRA AND RAJIV BOUGHT CLOSURE IS ABSOLUTE TRASH.

    Because it was not hate for Indira or Rajiv which created the problem. In fact Indira was quite popular with Sikhs right till Bluestar because she was identified with the creation of Punjabi Suba and somehow with the green revolution. It was just the communal politics her coterie played… and the game Evil cobra Gen Zia played– which resulted in the mess.

    The Khalistan movement would have gone on but things changed rapidly. Why?

    a) THE SIKH SPIRIT : A Sikh is never an isolationist. He is a gregarious guy who has no hassle of settling on the moon or the North Pole. And believe me a positive spirit which won’t pick up the gun and kill needlessly just because a person is from another religion. In the 80’s reasons for violence against Hindus were CREATED by SOME politicians and SOME clergy and Pakistan– that Sikhs were in danger.

    Since it is never part of the intrinsic Sikh religion, the reason stopped having takers from the small percentage of Sikhs who were mislead. I was once part of a school cricket team in Punjab, which had ten SIkhs. I take my morning walk many a time with a gentle Sikh who beleives in Gandhi and lectures me on how violence and nukes in the hands of jehadis will will blow up the world (much like gopi)

    In the evenings I sometimes hit the bar with a Sikh friend from college— who despite a a messy divorce still has the Chardhi Kala– ” Divorce ho gaya te musibut gayii… maa— — the world still has 3.5 billion girls ! ”

    b) FOUR PEOPLE WHO NEED BAHRAT RATNA: The four people who deserve Bharat Ratna for solving Punjab are listed below;

    —-> Harchand SIngh Singh Longowal : Simple rustic guy from Punjab who was the essence of Punjab and wanted a settlement

    —-> KPS Gill : KPS is one guy who deserves to be learnt in anti terror operations all over the world. He made terrorists fight with terrorists till the point the movement withered away. Make ten films on him. Each would deserve the Oscar.

    —-> P V Rao : Our most underated PM. He gave KPS a free hand and also chose to be the gentle grandfatherly non interfering PM.

    —-> Manmohan SIngh : Manmohan SIngh’s elevation as the Finance Minster proved to the Sikhs that not only were they the Brawn of India but also the brains.

    His gentle demeneour gave a new role model for SIkhs.

    His policies of market reforms made Punjab realise that it is more important to make money and live a good life rather than waste it in strife. In my eyes he still remains the real hero of India. Sad that idiots in the Congress insult him.

    More later…..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I thank you for posting on the issue instead of snipping like Hijras (Balwinder, RajeevS and Mishra).

    The point that concerns me.

    I D I D suggest that the death (not killing) of Rajiv Gandhi brought a closure to the Sikh Riots issue. Simply because that particular grievance was personally against Rajiv and his death naturally closed it. Just as many legal cases against an individual automatically close at the death of that individual.

    RajeevS convoluted that argument of mine and extended it to ridiculous levels, for no reason other than to score points against me.

    The larger Congress and the growth of Sikh Communal Politics is a different story

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    I still maintain that there was no blind hatred to Indira or Rajiv in the Sikh mind. Against Indira it was built up because the SGPC saw that Bhindranwala was being pushed up front by Zail Singh so that the control of Gurudwaras fell in Bhindranwala’s hands. With Rajiv it had a lot to do with thougtless comments and the fact he elevated Bhagat and Dhram Dass Shastri as MInisters.

    The NRI Sikhs like Chauhan who celeberated Indira’s death are real villians and lack visoin to see that a landlocked country with an ever hungry five times bigger Pakistan demanding water could never exist.

    Balwinder is right that the RSS and BJP helped out riot victims in 1984. Atal Bihari’s role has even been lauded by Vinod Sharma in his blog.

    Again let me repeat that the Sikh religion does not urge its followers to convert or does not give reason for killing non believers. The optimism– of most Sikhs I know– is something which I have tried to get into my own life.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kumar

    I see that you have not mentioned the issue of closure or of the accusation made against me of advocating the assassination of Mr Modi.

    So let us close that.

    As for the rest, Politics of Punjab and the rise of Akali Politics in the 70s, 80s, and 90s is a separate topic and I have no issues with your analysis or even conclusions. All I would be able to do is add different flavours to the same basic arguments you have made.

    But I am fascinated by the logic

    No Sikh would ever say that………

    But you did say that ………

    So you are definitely not a Sikh.

    An alternative would be.

    May be some Sikhs will say that……

    And you did say that…….

    So you must be that type of a Sikh.

    I have already addressed the RSS Volunteers Helping in Shadhra in my response to Balwinder.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “So let us close that.”

    Fake Sardar Ravi Singh Walrus moonchwala,

    you seem to be in a great hurry to close the unpleasant, dangerous, and utterly untenable “closure” issue, bacause almost everybody, (of course except the congressi troll and Prahlad, who now likes to be called sajay Dhawan) has called your fundoo rants.

    But, it is not easy. You shall accept your irresponsibility and apologise to the Sikh community for the insult.

    Ravi Reply:

    Great hurry…..you have been at it since last Thursday, withoutn a single point being made.

    NO APOLOGY I HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGISE FOR

    If you wis to continue with the swtory be my guest, no one else seems to be interested.

    Anonymous Reply:

    The suggestion that by “eliminating” Modi, the Gujrat rito issue too can be brought to “closure” was implied in your argument and even a blind man can see through your “suggestion”.

    Now you may try to put a gloss over a horribly wrong philosophy, but people have seen you for what you are: A JIHADI FUNDOO.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    How can any one hope to gloss over anything while you are around.

    It is more like untwisting the twists you and your chamchas add to even an ordinary post.

    Anonymous Reply:

    VIJAY kUMAR,

    absolutely brilliant, honest to a fault.

    MMS was the answer to the Sikhs’ and the Punjabis’ natural drive for economic prosperity. A greater reason for the Sikh revolt to die an early death was the superficial differences between the Sikhs and the Hindus, which the cobra, Gn.Zia, believed to be real and tried to exploit in his diabolic plans for the destructioin of an entity called India. That some Sikhs fell for it also says something about the inborn talent some Sikhs show for being gullible.

    It is this unity, strong sense of belonging to India and the innate sense of duty towards protecting this great land was what pulled back the community much before they were pushed to the brink.

    It is also this unity which this fake sardar, fake Ravi Singh is trying to somehow knock out.

    KPS Gill is undoubtedly a hero of Punjab and the whole of India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx Shenoy!

    I was just trying to be blunt and honest. One can learn a lot on how the Punjab movement was controlled and how happiness came back to the wheat fields though which I have fond memories of cyclng through. Or the lassi at the dhabas in Bhatinda…

    I hope the Central and state governments use the same methods for controlling insurgency by Maoists and other seccessionist movements.

    Again let me repeat the Sikh religion gives NO mandate to kill innocents or people from other religions in the name of religon. That was the key which made people question the terrorists and the ideologues.

    With Islamists killing in the name of jehad, the clergy has to be roped in to condemn the jehadis and also show how the terrorists are misintrpreting scriptures. But then we need to make sure that the clergy does not run away with the horse. It is important that reasonable Muslims are encouraged to come centre stage. Instead we have had the sorry state of affairs where people like Salman Khurshid, who should be reasonble becasue of education, chose to be the opposite by siding up with the terrorists of Batla house and parading his wife’s conversion and also talking about propotional representation in jobs based on religion.

    Maoists are taught that “power flows from the barrle of the gun,” and we should now consider ways on how to demolish this beleif.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Overall a good analysis of Punjab situation during eighties
    and nineties.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx. I was just trying to be absolutely factual too as I had seen many things closely…

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    How are you sir. Always exhilirating to read your “works”

    Nice to know there is a serious side of you which can look into the issues. You are right that we could never get teh right measure of the wily Gen Zia who looked like Sharia exectioner to me.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo,

    sorry, bhaiyya, I couldn’t immediately respond.

    You have become an infrequent visitor here.

    I hope you will find the time.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gr8 analysis VIjay. I fear we have not learnt all our lessons from Punjab.

    We still foment religious and divisive issues in the hunt for votes. Your blog bought back memories of the time when I needed to go to Patial as an auditor ad feared for my life stepping out. This was in ‘65, when the movement was at its height.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    Yes I remember those days well as a child. But hopefully those days will never come back. On the negative side, we, as a nation have not learnt our lessons and resort to low level communal politcking for vote banks.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    RAVI, you can call me hijra or worse, but that reflects on your own vulgar nature or upbringing. On other hand, if I refuse to take these gifts can I pl return them to you and your family with regards. Thanks

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Look who is talking, you have called me worse here.

    You mindset is well known if little appreciated.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I will narrate a very small episode of my life.
    When I was a bachelor, I used to go to a restaurant for lunch which is owned by a Sikh.
    For more than a year I went there daily without exception. On Fridays I used to go there
    just to have a glass of lassi. We both became quite friendlier with each other.
    When Mrs. Gandhi was assisnated, almost all the businesses owned by Indians were closed
    out of respect. This restaurant also closed for that day. Later, I heard that he had a party at
    his hom on that night to celebrate the death of Mrs. Gandhi. I was very upset to hear this and
    wanted to ask him why?, but never had a courage to do so.
    I got married and my regular frequenting that restaurant stopped. We used to meet after that,
    but not very regulary. About 15 years back, I wanted to have a small party at my place,
    I met him for the catering for that party. After the party when I went to pay my bill
    I asked him the question which was bugging me since many years ‘ why did you celebrate on that day ‘ ?
    With tears in his eyes, he said ‘ that was my biggest mistake of my life, I am ashamed
    of myself of my actions of those days ‘. And he condemned Khalistani movement vehemently. I can never forget the sadness which I saw on that face.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Viju

    You had asked about invasions, transformations, assimilation etc from a historical perspective. I will try to answer, although may not be a complete answer. There are three broad categories of post invasion course:

    1) The invader taking the “invaded’s” belief systems, renouncing his prior preinvasion
    beliefs – I believe only Emperor Ashoka has done this.
    2) The invader not interfering in the invaded’s belief systems – Chengis Khan and his descendants generally adhered to this. Mongols although brutal, were astute and tolerant rulers, open to new ideas so diverse people could live in peace. Chengis Khan was neither the ignorant savage nor the cultureless vandal often portrayed by “civilized” writers. Once the conquered people have been subdued (through power/violence), he took a keen interest in their arts and learning, but staying away in tents with his numerous wives and not interfering. At Karankrum, he consulted with confucian scholars about rule in China, Muslim engineers about building, Daoist Budhists on spirituality – his empire had all sorts of religions. He himself followed Shamanisti (worshipping natural spirits), and let his subjects follow whatever they wanted to.

    3) Invaders insulting invaded’s belief systems and forcefully or instituting systems of tax/favouritism etc that prompts the invaded to migrate to the invader’s belief systems- Most of the post classic period invasions, including Islamic invasions of india, can be clumped into this. Sometimes, countries have gone from one to another and back as happened in Spain.

    Your question regarding invasions of India, Saudi culture (isnt it an oxymoron???) pushing Sufi culture away etc…. :

    Most of the Muslim invaders/rulers, especially pre-Moguls, pursued a policy of religious intolerance , either for the sake of petty personal politics or to receive the appreciation of other Muslim rulers. Rulers like Aurangazeb pursued a policy of intolerance because they wanted to present themselves to the Msulim world as upholders of Islamic faith. Some rulers, notably Akbar went out of his way to bridge the locals and by then a large number of converted locals.

    Years of conflict between the invaders’ belief systems (Muslim) and the invaded’s belief systems (Hindu or whatever was considered Indian) was coming to a reconciliation in 15th century with both parties venerating gurus like Kabir and Nanak. Sufism spread all across including Madurai, new traditions such as Satyapir emerged.

    East India company encouraged its staff to marry locally, dress in local outfits etc; and many married Indians (both Hindus and Muslims). However, British takeover in 1857 after the Sepoy rebellion, rekindled the jealousies and animosities and insecurities between Hindu/Muslim that was on the wane during the preceding 100 years. They planted the seed of division/partition.

    Past forward… Successive congress govts have created the environment of “separate” community requiring special privileges. Elements in KSA are leveraging that platform of “separate and special”, luring people living in scarcity and poverty with petrodollars to acts of extremism.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Interesting ! I am trying to absorb what you wrote. Will give an approproate reply…. just itching to go for tennis now….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Very interesting analysis. Thanks.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx for the post and the effort you put into it. These were some issues which sometimes come up in ones mind… so it is important to have a historical perspective.

    I am surprised to know Genghiz khan was a tolerant tyrant. The impression I had was that he was a terrible tyrant.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Egrich

    I do agree with your UP election outcome assessment that BSP will be the majority party and will form tthe govt. However, I do not believe they will get the type of margin you predicted.

    Pundits are predicting hung assembly with Maulayam being the largest party. .

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    My gut feeling is the SP will get the majority or will be slightly short of it.
    Mulayam Singh will be the CM and after about a year will hand over the
    reins to his son Akhilesh.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Son rises in India!

    (he seems to be a smart kid liked by the populace there; he can potentially maneuver to be the PM in 5-10 years if SP wins and can form a ministry)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Son rises in India.

    Good one.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Will that be a new dynasty

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    in one way, India is becoming truly “democratic”, with opportunities for all irresepective of family lineage, wealth, caste etc…!
    Karunanidhi clan, Reddy mining (Reddy’s dad was a constable, Reddy could not attend college for lack of money), Maulyam, the list goes on.. A new generation of thieves replacing the entrenched thieves of yester years!

    It looks like Mamta’s nephew who beat up the police officer will ensure, if he can, that Trinamool is his after Diddi becomes old unless Did gets married..

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi in short the Gnadhi dynasty is not the only dynasty in the political business then.

    Anonymous Reply:

    They are the longest and the only one at the national level.

    The locals, like Karunanidhi, learned the tricks from the main dynasty.

    Ravi Reply:

    Agreed, but then we are dealing with a fairly wide-spread human nature not some form of oddity

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Normal human nature. Why would they give away to
    a stranger whatever they earned due hard work/political
    astuteness/intelligence/cunningness. Whether it is
    Mulayam Singh, Karunanidhi, Sonia Gandhi, Bal Thakre or any one else. Everyone will do the same
    in a similar situation.
    This is a fact and we have to accept it.
    Ms. Renuka Chowdry had said once on TV
    ‘ we are not running a charitable organization’

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Gopi and Mohan/

    Mohan if your son takes over your prvate business– nobody minds. But if you attempt to give him a Government office using your power to fudge and derail competition… everyone minds.

    Under this logic the income tax collectors will nominate their sons for the post….

    This sort of dynasty business happens in third rate countries like North Korea, Libya , Pakistan etc. We should dump this… immediately

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    In principle what you say is correct
    and should happen, but reality is different and we have to accept that.

    I will post a dialogue by Pran from the movie Upkar.

    Din ko mein woh kehta hoon jo hona chaiye aur raat ko mein woh bolta hoon jo ho raha hai.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well Pran was an ideal character in Upkar.

    If you and me give this dialogue in the night…. then it could be ‘A’ class…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    if Mamta joins the NDA for 2014, Narendra Modi will have wider choice (personally, that is)

    Ravi Reply:

    Will that be a new dynasty

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Manohar biradar ( Bhau ka Dhakka, a place in Bombay, always bring a smile to me) reporting and surveys and their being given prominence is practiced not by you alone, I have also given prominence to news items, which interest me. The victory cry and smugness were the irritants, not this bringing forth in HT of survry/ court ruling per se.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    bhaau cha dhakka, that is what it is called.

    I keep posting items right across the spectrum (not only political), as you must have noticed, which I feel could generate some debate. I have nothing personal against any politician, it is the news content that is important. If some of the posts discomfort some or all, there is nothing I can do anything about it.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    I am all for generating healthy debates. Very old joke(?), where narrative says that , when Indian exporter of crabs was asked, why Indian crabs are so fresh, exporter said, we do not keep them in capped containers, they come in open containers, when asked again, ” don’t they escape”, was told no, wheen one crab is going up, others pull its legs and bring it down. sounds familiar here in this blog.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj Bhaau

    Healthy debates. I wish that was the case generally, but no.

    What do we see here – abuse, label-fabrication, shooting the messenger, character assassination and obfuscation. The ‘culprits’ are known to all, but not a word of caution or advice – only pin drop silence. Sounds familiar?

    Why such a state of affairs? Reasons too well known to repeat them here.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar Bhaau( preferred word)
    remember that some time back you said that you are not the keeper of this blog. You appealed, I appealed repeatedly, nothing changed or yes, something changed, no more open abuses. Anyway, would like some good debate, whether you agree or disagree, does not matter.

  • Anonymous

    After VHP, now a muslim group object to Osama movie.

    http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=754022

    sab ek hi thali ke chatte batte hain.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Bilkul

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    As per indications, SP is most likely to form the Government in UP with or without support from other parties.

    What will happen to Mayawati’s statues? They have been put in ‘coffins’ as per directives of the EC. Will they remained encased? How symbolic that would be.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    I believe that statues are a complex issue and I have found myself reacting in different ways at different times to this phenomenon.

    1st reaction was this was a crass act of a megalomaniac. It is open to the kind of criticism Vijay levels against the Gandhi/Nehru family when every road, new town, etc. seem to be named after one or another member of the family and other notable contributors to our society are ignored.
    This reaction always leaves me cringing at the site of the statues.

    2nd reaction is about time too. I know I am going to be lynched for saying this, but most of our heroes who are commemorated in street decorations belong to higher castes. A substantial proportion of our population – whilst identifying with these heroes – does not get the same amount of buzz as they would have, had they cast their eye on a statue of someone from their own caste. For example I feel great when I see a statue of Mahatma Gandhi or Rabindar Nath Thakur, however my chest swells an extra inch with pride when I see a bust of Sardar Bhagat Singh. This leads me to imagine that a Dalit – even an educated and prosperous one – would similarly feel that extra buzz when they see the statue of a Dalit hereo Mayawati.

    I am satisfied that I am unable to resolve between these two feelings.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    You said :
    “This leads me to imagine that a Dalit – even an educated and prosperous one – would similarly feel that extra buzz when they see the statue of a Dalit hereo Mayawati. ”
    There is probably a layer of complex power politics at play here.
    Let me elaborate .
    A Mayawati at powerful position and its manifestation in the form of statues at some level represents dalit assertiveness and association with power – perhaps to the point of power being within the reach.
    Notice here something else at play as well. The symbol of power and social superiority that Mayawati’s position represents is hardly universal. Another symbol of power and superiority that has emerged is related to “pecking order” in the market economy. It is this symbol that urban “India” aspires more than the established political power structure.
    My intent here is not to say or be judgemental about which symbols are superior – am just trying to point out the differences in symbolism.
    It is as well quite likely that this difference could be reflection of relationship between the political and bourgeios class. With the legacy of structural disparity in our society some castes are yet largely shut out of markets perhaps aligning with the political power structure as the symbol of assertiveness. Or yet maybe I am getting far too much abstract.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    You have perfectly extended my feelings and given them more academic language than I was able to.

    It would have been easy to dismiss her infatuation with statues as nothing more than an egotistical act of a megalomaniac.

    But as you point out, they serve more than one purpose.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    This is what you say

    This leads me to imagine that a Dalit – even an educated and prosperous one – would similarly feel that extra buzz when they see the statue of a Dalit hereo Mayawati.”

    Mahesh,

    You have posted

    ” A Mayawati at a powerful position and it’s manifestation in the form of statues at some level represent Dalit assertiveness ”

    These are your opinions, but was also Mayawati thinking same when she decided to
    erect scores of statues in her state or was it just a normal human nature i.e ego.? Or
    Was it just Dalit assertiveness/pride or her way of showing to the world that she has arrived
    and in a way challenging her opponents to stop her if they had guts?

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    Honest answer is I don’t know.

    But my guess would be that some backroom staff may have spelt something like that to her and she would have jumped at the idea for baser personal reasons.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    Don’t you think when such opinions are floated, then people like Mayawati are encouraged to do such silly things which has no benefit for a common man.

    Ravi Reply:

    Not sure I get you. Are you suggesting that Mahesh and I are encouraging her or you mean her back-room staff.

    Either way, I have a feeling that the benfits probably balance out the expenditure.

    However, with regards to the common man then I would agree that such things should be way down in the list of priorities.

    Would I have held the same view if some one in Government was suspending the erection of a Bhagat Singh statue. Honestly I do not know.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    It is late now, will try to answer this tommowor.

    Ravi Reply:

    Good night Mohan

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh,

    if your intent was to befuddle the readers of this blog, you have succeeded to a large extent.

    Sample This: It is as well quite likely that this difference could be reflection of relationship between the political and bourgeios class. With the legacy of structural disparity in our society some castes are yet largely shut out of markets perhaps aligning with the political power structure as the symbol of assertiveness. Or yet maybe I am getting far too much abstract.”

    Far too abstract= far too befuddling.

    A request, Mahesh Sir,

    Please, please revert to English.

    Anonymous Reply:

    One person is befuddled (but natural), it is assumed everyone else is befuddled. How preposterous.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think her elephants will be changed to cycles.

    Mulayam;s uncles, Lohia and that of non Congress socialist figures will soon get another silent life… with fingers pointing at the sky and birds pooping o their head.

    Statues was one big reason Maya lost here maya. Well maybe Mulayam and Congress will dig out scams to reveal her real Maya… as Kushawa and Naseemudin Siddiqui have already been targetted.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay

    I had posed a question 5 hours ago, which either you do not wish to answer or did not see it. So let me try again to see if I can elicit a response, if you do not mind.

    ————–

    “Jo Darr gaya woh mar gaya”!!

    “You know cowardice does strange things to the human minds”.

    How well spoken. You need examples from your own backyard? Tell me when to start.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sure discuss anything with me. I did not see your response then.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Great. I like your attitude shown here. Topic closed.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Sanjay (and others who may be interested can also join in).

    In our discussion on A B Vahpayee, in you last post,. you wrote

    We would have loved Vajpayee to do something substantial, not just a little cosmetic.

    And he would not have been known as just another leader.

    Should we say the potential never realised !

    Or, the opportunity got wasted!”

    ——————-

    I was wondering why. Is it due to the fact that the RSS has such a stifling grip over the BJP that there is no chance for a BJP leader to realise his full potential or no opportunity to do so?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am not sure it’s right forum to discuss it. Nevertheless let’s give a try.

    You know the narrative changes when the lead actor changes.

    The narrative of Ramayan would change if you see it through Sita’s eyes or that of Ravan.The characters remain same. But the narrative changes.

    Let’s throw ideas how Vajpayee would have looked at New Delhi with RSS as an enabler.

    Or, how RSS looked at New Delhi with Vajpayee as the enabler.

    If it intrigues you, let’s give it a try. If it sounds farfetched, just ignore.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay

    On my last visit to India, I bought the book…

    Lost Years of the RSS by Sanjeev Kelkar

    The following review does not do full justice to it.

    Lost Years of the RSS is a historical analysis of the events that have shaped the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) in its 85 years of existence. Written from an insider’s perspective, this in-depth work critically analyses the major turning points in the history of RSS from the viewpoint of both a follower and an opponent, while digging deep into its socio-political history.

    Beginning with the political ethnography of the RSS, the book charts the organisation’s growth over time-from the Partition, the first ban, the Golwalkar and Deoras periods, the demolition of Babri Masjid, to the present, when the original principles of the Sangh have been forgotten, leading to the current decadence within the organisation.

    The author concludes with suggestions for a way forward for the RSS, wherein the lessons learnt from the past can be put to use and the original values can be reinstated. At the heart of the book is the author’s implicit desire to contradict the current media representations of the Sangh and portray the RSS as what it was actually meant to be.

    The key hypothesis is that Golwalkar moved the organisation further to the right, which for a significant period alienated Deoras. The author believes that had Deoras – the rightful inheritor of Hedgewar’s project not been overlooked in favour of Golwalkar then RSS probably would have remained socially conservative rather than become and extreme organisation than it is.

    Similarly, it is my humble opinion that had Vajpai remained in the inner sanctum of the RSS then he would have moderated some of its more wacky ideas.

    To me Vajpai represents another lost opportunity for reform of RSS and make it more inclusive than it presently is.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Sanjay

    It is the right forum to discuss Vajpayee because the dunce Yuvraj of the Congress has lost badly in UP despite the press bending backwards… so let us shift focus back onto Vajpayee;s shortcomings and why RSS is behind eruptions in Mount Fujiyama :)

    Good Morning India….

    Join me for a morning walk…. :)

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    If I remember correctly, once Bajpai lost his ministry by designs of opposition by generating defection or some such thing and his government lasted only 13 days. Bajpai was pragmatic, and sensitive at the same time. He was also not a puppet in the hands of RSS. He was easily one of the tallest parliamentarian of his time. Loss of his leadership should have caused some negative influence in public life in India. Opposition never ceased to blame his party as communal, while in fact most of them were either communal or casteist to the core. In Indian polity, it is an old game to label somebody as communal and finish him, this is still being practiced.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    bajpai was puupet in hands of rss otherwise he would have dissolved gurat goverment after 2002 riot.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    bajpai was better than others.cannot call him tallest parliamentarian.bengal has produced far better.

  • Dr Mishra

    Gopi and Genghis Khan””””””””””””””

    Sorry buddy, you got it terribly wrong on this one. The butchery indulged in by Genghis Khan has very few parallels in world history- he makes Aurangzeb look like a choir boy. The butchery was also counter productive- when Genghis used to leave a region, he would burn all the fields, kill most and take the remaining as slaves- WHO WOULD THEN BE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS FOR THE NEXT INVASION !!

    He also often lied- his assurance to people of Samarkand that on surrender they would be spared- is recorded in Muslim history as one of the greatest betrayals by a royal- at that time kings always kept their word.. After his pillage of Samarkand and Bukhara- citadels of Islamic art and architecture then- he built a pyramid of skulls of those he killed.

    Yes, 15 years before he died, he met a remarkable young man of 25, who measured 6 feet 8 inches in height and who had a beard to his waist- Chu Tsai. Chu Tsai is believed to have been the sole civilising influence on Genghis after which – yes Gopi you are right on this one- Genghis started saying all 4 religions were equal- Taoism, Shamanism (his own) Confucianism and the Indian religion called Buddhism

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    After the ransacking of Beijing, Chu Tsai had become disturbed and to make sense of the tragedy had spent 3 years studying the philosophy and culture of India which effected him deeply- ah that Indian connection again

    SWAABHIMAAN lecture from Dr Mishra- I do not quote silly books on India by foreigners who are not fit to lick the boots of Swami Vivekanand or Tagore or Buddha

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Pathetic, infantile and ranty, not to mention baseless.

    Martha Nussbaum E X T E N S I V E L Y quotes Tagore

    Instead of citing learned scholars you fantasise.

    Here is some swabhiman feeding fabrication.

    The RSS Sarsangchalak K. S. Sudarshan, called those who were resisting the revisions of the NCERT textbooks as “anti-Hindu-Euro-Indians”. Sudarshan laments that these anti-Hindu Euro-Indians” hate “Vedic Maths” and do astonishing things like not believing that in ancient India we knew about nuclear energy and that Sage Bhardwaj and Raja Bhog not only “described the construction of aeroplanes” but also discussed “details like what types of aeroplanes would fly at what height, what kind of problems they might encounter, how to overcome those problems etc.”

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    can they give the reference of any road hospital or school built during those by vedics.how civilization can be great when
    98% of indian populationwere not allowed to study.any imaginary bullshit is being forced to believe.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Mishra ji,

    Do you know there is a very old saying in China ” If you have lived a rightful life, you have a chance of being born in India in your next birth”.

    Well, this was the respect with which India was viewed by civilization of China which itself was very advanced.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    budhdha and vivekanand were destroyed by brhmns.tagore wrote JANGAN MAN to salute king george 5th.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Permit me.

    Since when all the repository of all the wisdom and that is good is exclusive to India or superior to the rest?

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    “Chu Tsai did his best to convince the Mongols to tax rather than slaughter conquered peoples. In Grousset’s Empire of the steppes, the emperor would tease him, saying “Are you going to weep for the people again?”. The wise chancellor said- “empires may be conquered on horseback, but could not be ruled on horseback”"
    —————————
    ah, history, so brutal, so fascinating- my passion. Particularly that little known age from 500 BC to 1000 AD when two of the greatest civilisations the world has ever known- Hindu and Chinese- said hello to each other across the Himalays.
    Now of course it is Aksai Chin

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms”

    somrthing similar rss is doing during riots.chu tsai persuaded changez
    not to attack india.what would happen if he comes here.

    muslims made india.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    he makes Aurangzeb look like a choir boy

    aurangzeb fought to maintain unity and integrity of india against scavangers of north and seccionists of west.he expanded boundaries of india.under his raj india economy exceeded economy of china.

    britishers and rss ,local agent of imperialism demonized him as he was last strong examplary fakir ruler of india.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    After his pillage of Samarkand and Bukhara- citadels of Islamic art and architecture then- he built a pyramid of skulls of those he killed

    he also destroyed biggest library of world in baghdad.could not write one book.after reading and understanding all religions his grandson converted to islam.now all mongols outside mangolia are muslim.taimur was also his progeny
    he again converted samarkand into most beautiful and scientifically advanced city of world.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    dr Mishra

    You are right about the brutality of the Mongols. Vijay’s question was about whether all the invaders force its subjects to convert……
    Gengis Khan subjugated people and countries with violence; and once theyw ere subjugated, ruled them without interfering into their religion/beliefs..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I am going to sleep – another sleepless night will ensue; I just read “Behind the Beautiful Forevers – Life, Death, and Hope in a Mumbai Undercity” by Katherine Boo, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer for the New Yorker.

    Abdul , 16, Sunil, 12, … the slum life in Annawadi, near Mumbai international airport. where child scavengers fantasize about landing hotel jobs “where waiters spent all day putting toothpicks into pieces of cheese”

    Recommed you all read it…. and feel ashamed about ourselves, our leaders, our political paries, our democracy…

    I am 100% confident that if Mr Modi becomes PM of India, no Indian child will live a life of segregating plastic from shit fighting with rats in a sewage.

    Sunil and Abdul could be our children. So also Asha.

    We can easily blame Congress for its 50 plus years’ of stewardship; but all are partners in this crime.

    Another sleepless troubling night…….

    and Manohar still believes in the supremacy and honour of the parliamentarians…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Gopi Thomas , if SMUG B mishra has any trace of honesty left , then after reading your post , he should stop blabbering about his FAKE patriotism and PSEUDO swabhimaan , the measure of which can be gauged from the fact that he took up british nationality , before could finish reading this post

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Agree with you that only Congress cannot be blamed for all the ills of our country.
    All political parties are hand in glove for this horrendous crime.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Mohan,

    It is not Political parties alone , but we the Indian people who are primarily responsible. We have to improve our Character, as individual and as a society. Right political parties with right people will automatically appear. It is always very easy to pass on blame to someone else, in this case on politicians.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke,

    Yes, we also are part of the problem. Because of our selfish nature, we are not able
    to look beyond our self interest only.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Mohan,

    In my view, if we mix in right proportion today’s Scientific knowledge with our Indian knowledge base and philosophy, we can turn out to be one of the the best societies world has ever known.

    engrich Reply:

    Indian knowledge base and philosophy

    can u explain it bit more.hindu phi;osophy is meant for slavery of brhmns and for easiness of brhmns.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes, our legislators are ones among us. If 50% of our society is corrupt, immoral or of loose character (thank you, Shakti Kapoor), then there is a good chance (it is happening), a large number of the undesirables would get elected.

    PS: If each member of society was like Mahatma Gandhi, then there would not have been any need to have any laws to deal with the deviants among us.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaoloke, we miss you here. Please participate more.

    engrich Reply:

    I am 100% confident that if Mr Modi becomes PM of India, no Indian child will live a life of segregating plastic from shit fighting with rats in a sewage

    AROUND 50000 MUSLIMS LIVING IN REFUGEE CAMPS SINCE 2002.
    AHMADABAD HAS HA BIGGEST LUM OF INDIA,EVEN BIGGER THAN DHARAVI.
    GOPI ON WHAT BASIS U CLAIM THIS.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    three lakh Kashmiri pandits too are living in slums, even though they had their own houses and businesses and professions in their own home land, which you Islamic fundoos have illegally grabbed.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    kashmiri pundits were removed by jagmohan,a hindu nazi governor of kashmir,to release them from the pain for of continous curfew which continued.this is the duty of indians to help them.u are using them for political gain.thousands have already returned.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Manohar still believes in the supremacy and honour of the parliamentarians…”

    I do. Show me a better alternative, I may change my view.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The biggest balloon created by the media is about to be burst
    ————————————————————————————-
    Rahul Gandhi seems to have come a cropper.
    —————————————————————————————
    Now congress party will blame editors like Vinod Sharma for not doing enough.
    ———————————————————————————————————–
    I call upon all bloggers to stand behind Vinod Sharma unitedly.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Of course we will stand by Vinod…

    Anyway, let us see in few days. Polls here are here and there… It is quite difficult to get the representative sampling for exit interviews, especially in UP with the phased polls…

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mayawati’s Statues
    ————————–

    Whether it was right or wrong (the latter IMO) to have her own statues may be an academic question now.

    With new dispensation (most likely), they will be not sanction funds to maintain her statues and symbols of her party, and that is where she was in error – presumably thinking the BSP will be in power indefinitely in Lucknow, so government funds (‘baap kaa maal’) would continue to flow.

    The parks in question will be left to go to seed. Only if her own statues were not there, then there would not have been any problem – but how do you reason with a megalomaniac (that is what she is, in my view)?

    PS: I doubt she will get a majority on her own in the near future and 2017 is very far away. If she had spent the money involved in building schools and primary health centres in rural areas – never mind if all of them were named after Dalit icons, including the late Kanshi Ram, she would not be looking at defeat in this election. What a waste of a mandate.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A) Mamata back to street politics, city to chaos

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata-/Mamata-back-to-street-politics-city-to-chaos/articleshow/12129062.cms

    KOLKATA: The politics of showdown strangled the city on Saturday, leaving citizens wondering what the change in governance was all about. The thousands caught in traffic jams in south Kolkata were amazed to see the chief minister walking the streets as though she were still the firebrand opposition leader.

    ——-

    Read on.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ‘Moral outrage a cover for male anxiety’
    Malini Nair

    http://www.timescrest.com/coverstory/moral-outrage-a-cover-for-male-anxiety-7388

    A teen gangraped by five men in Noida is practically accused by the police of asking for it. She was “friendly” with men, went out with them when invited and was not beyond accepting a drink. In Kolkata, Mamata Banerjee sneers at the veracity of a woman’s claim of being raped after a night out at a club because, as the CM put it, being a mother of two and divorced, she had no business partying at night. Thasni Banu, a young IT worker from Kochi, is assaulted by a bunch of rowdies as she was heading for her night shift with a male colleague after being warned that “such things” may be tolerated in Bangalore but not in Kerala.

    ==========

    Read on.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    This is one way by which a ‘ honourable’ man justifies rape.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    In many a case it may not be actual rape– but plain physical molestation without penentration– to put it bluntly. Punishment should be high, but the women also learn to tackle this by physically attacking back , calling the police on cellphone, biting etc.

    Otherwise it does like a case of hapless women and million of male marauders. Which may not be true.

    The famous dowry case in NOIDA where a girl– Nish Sharma– became an anti dowry heroine worldover in one night turned out to be false after seven years of court trail for the man.

    It turned out that the girl had another lover and just to avoid an arranged marriage, she shouted dowry dowry… and called the media.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    I know that there are many false cases registered against
    men by some women who have some ulterior motives. But,
    I have problem with those men who blame the rape victim only
    because that girl was visiting a club or wearing short dress-
    something to that effect -.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar

    There have been several cases of men ganging up on women, even attacking husband/wife (thinking they are not husband/wife) by these self declared vice squad.

    In fact Shrimathi Sandhya, dy DGP, was attacked by a man when she was doing her early morning walking/jogging!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The vidooshak is back:

    This is from Amar Singh Azmi:“After Batla House, I am Amar Singh Azmi from Azamgarh… I have seen the purdah-clad women of Rampur shamed and accused of producing ‘terrorists’,”

    He blamed the people of UP: “If after all this, they are ready to coronate Mulayam Singh as emperor and Akhilesh as Shahzada Salim, UP deserves it!” If Mulayam wins, “It will be proved that in UP’s politics, caste and creed are the only key to success”, says the man who is himself addressed as ‘Thakur’ Amar Singh in public meetings. “It will be like the Gaddafi family (in Libya). Or Idi Amin’s family (in Uganda).”

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/has-anybody-heard-from-amar-singh/919735/0

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    UP is cursed, how I long for a Modi or Nitish to clean up the land of my birth

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    It wont happen soon. The BJP never put up an effective campaign and roped in UMA bharati– a joke– an outsider.

    By the way the BJP government of 1999 was the best UP had in 30 years.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    shenoy

    Amar Singh Dahlaa is the guy Congress and HT relied to produce the fake CD. Do you think Amar Singh should start a website on dahlagiri to earn money to supplement the 70000 crores in his bank?

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    What India gave the world, read on”””””””””””””

    Thank you engerich, Manohar, Aaloke for your delightful comments.

    Yes engerich Chu-tsai, with his fascination for India and its rich culture of science and arts, did try and tone down Chenghis’s brutality and domesticated him. In China now Chenghis is not considered a Mongol but as founder of the Yuan dynasty.

    Aalok- said- brilliant – ‘ old saying in China ” If you have lived a rightful life, you have a chance of being born in India in your next birth”. ‘

    Manohar, in India where 99% have forgotten their own glorious history I simply remind them of it. Most rural or working class Indians that I meet suffer from the cancer of inferiority complex. They think white people are fantastic and feel they themselves can never achieve much as they are part of an inferior race.

    I have for 20 years volunteered in a local temple with where I teach hindi and general aspects of Indian culture and history. Many, who would be considered SC or OBC in India are sometimes overwhelmed by the respect we give them and have said that my series of lectures titled – yes you guessed it SWAABHIMAAN has energised their children who then think sky is the limit.

    Right uptil the eightees for Asian kids to be beaten at school and called names in UK was par for the course and many are scarred for life. I do what I can

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Engerich- abs correct- ‘ Chenghis burned the vast library in Baghdad’ In fact a detailed analysis of the pillage of Khwarezem which had the cities of Bukhara and Samarkand has finally arrived at a count of the number of guys Chenghis killed there in just 2 years- 1.3 million.
    Not impressed- come on guys- this was 1200s, the world population then was just 300 million

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    You are correct about the brutality of Gengis Khan..he subjugated countries and people with violence…But after subjugation, he ruled without interfering into the subjects’ belief systems, or forcing them to change.

    (Mongols- The Last great nomadic Changes – From Chinggis Khan to Timur, Robert Guisepi)

    Vijay’s question was about invaders forcing the invaded ones to change their religion/worship…

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    true Gopi. Like I said before Genghis had 2 phases- in the first nomadic phase he burnt. looted and moved on. In the second phase, he tried to rule. One reason he could not impose his own SHAMANISM on others because it was not an organised religion at all- more animistic

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Manohar, for that time the hindu civilisation was perhaps the most advanced in the world. The progress in math was stupendous with the zero and decimal having changed the world forever.
    Aryabhat said the earth is round and revolves around the sun in 490 AD !!!

    THE CURSE OF INDIA ARE ITS INADEQUATE HISTORIANS- when I read Romila Thapar’s book this fact is mentioned in a single sentence- the fact that is was a dazzling thesis, the fact that the man and the society that produced him was so brilliant, has not been emphasised.

    And that is where we fail our Indian children, In the very dirty city of Agra which I visited in Aug 2011, my driver was Farrukh from Rajasthan, and my guide was Faizan a delightful young undergrad living in the horribly dirty Tajganj- they had zero percent knowledge of all this.

    Faizan lived in a ghetto, intellectually as well as geographically. – his world starts with Babur and ends with Aurangzeb. He is like a polished version of engerich.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    During your visit to India, doctor saab, did you not meet any
    hindu version of engrich type of people ? Or you were just
    looking for muslims only ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    GHULAM,

    the most illiterate, ignorant and uncultured Hindu’s world doesn’t start with Baber and end with Auragzeb.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aryabhatta ’s thesis and how he arrived at it needs to be taught all over India…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra says

    Manohar, in India where 99% have forgotten their own glorious history I simply remind them of it. Most rural or working class Indians that I meet suffer from the cancer of inferiority complex. They think white people are fantastic and feel they themselves can never achieve much as they are part of an inferior race.

    I do not believe that in India 99% have forgotten their own History. They most certainly have not.

    There is much in ancient Indian History to confirm India was great and is great. We do not need I N V E N T history in order to feel great.

    That is where we differ. In order for you to feel great you feel the need to invent History

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Jews were here from 800 onwards. However, only buildings and market names are left along with may be 50 people all across the state. I had a classmate in Engg; he migrated to Israel.

    http://www.thehindu.com/arts/magazine/article2960175.ece

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–~~ UP NEEDS A 4 WAY DIVISION TO MOVE BEYOND caste and religion ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    To tie up a vote bank in a state as big as UP you need to make the people feel scared along [rimary groupings. And that remains caste and religion in UP. Maywati had floated a trial baloon of a 4 way division. Now with SP iracing towards a majority… it stands deflated.

    I doubt whether that can be rammed thru without NDA comiing to the centre and doing what they did in Jharkhand, Chattisgarh and Uttranchal.

    TILL THEN UP WILL REMAIN THE LAGGARD- DULL BOY OF INDIA..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Viju

    UP’s decadal population growth is 30 plus million; as much as the total kerala population.

    UP has to be divided into many smaller states ..although that will create 4 or 5 times corrupt bureaucrats and ministers..

    .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think that is an apt example/ People are dumb here. There is a population slowdown… but then deep down in some sections there is a race for more children for relgiosu reasons.

    The kerala model of education and women empowerment is good for slowing down numbers and bringing up equality.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi, Mohan, Vijay Kumar,

    FROM TICKET TO CRICKET:

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Funny (and sad) indeed!

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Very good and intelligent.

  • Anonymous

    Digryodhan Singh says Congress will get 100 (?) seats in UP and the polls cannot be trusted..
    I agree with his second statement, and not with the first. I think BSp and SP will be quite close in seats, with BSP being the largest. I may be wrong; any way UP will continue its decline whoever – BSP or SP -

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well Digroydhan Singh was dreaming of power… but yes the Congress may get in Robert Vadra as the buzz goes as he has Priyanka as wife and that may be a good draw in the dynastic way.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopiji/Vijay

    BJP is not very different from congress. They become visible only during election time.
    If they want to be formidable in UP, they have to start working now for 2017.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    True. Frankly Akhilesh worked hard on this for four years– and was accesiblle to all, Rahul gandhi was a helicoper droppout and BJP had no face on the road.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    BJP is a rudderless party. Golden opportunities are wasted consistently.

    The UP election preparation, strategy etc is a case study of what not to do/how not to do. And the decision to take Khajuwaha into the party – only morons will do that.

    But in spite of all these they are projected to be ahead of Congress…

    Anywy, lets wait another day ……

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    gulamramjohn, I did meet quite a few hindus who were very anti Islamic, including one distant cousin of mine in Agra. I toned them down where I could. When we finished at the Taj and had to go to the fort we went back to our hotel Jaypee palace where I invited both Faizan and Farrukh to join us for lunch.
    It was a gentle way of reminding my cousin that the world had moved on and so must he. It was also a measure of Faizan’s confidence that when the day’s touring finished, he put out his hand confidently and shook hands with my nephew and niece.

    Twenty years ago, a poor muslim guide living in Tajganj would not have had the confidence to do that. Somehow I liked that gesture. I sincerely hope at least his progeny will move out of the ghetto and be part of the success story that is India

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    I am sorry folks for my long answers, India and its people are my passion. In the last 1 year I have been back 4 times !!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am sorry to say doctor saab that you have not seen real India. There are
    ghettos of muslims all over the country and you will find people like engrich
    but there are millions of muslims in India who will confidently not only
    shake hands with you but will also embrace you in a very dignified way.
    If you try to speak some bullshit they will very politely correct you also.
    Please do not ever try to paint all the muslims with same brush. Same
    goes for hindus, christains, sikhs and all the people of my beloved India.

    There is a very fine line between swabhimaan and abhimaan and I believe
    you are on verge of crossing that , or have you already crossed ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    gulamramjohn

    Bravo, Bravo

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    ghulam, my comment was specific for a boy called Faizan from a ghetto called tajganj. My affection for him, did, I think, shine thorugh my comments

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Fabrication of Indian History 1

    Once again attempt is being made here by Hindu Chauvinists to falsify Indian history in order to engender a false sense of Swabhiman.

    Romila Thappar is not the only secular/scientific Historian whose work is demonised, to that we can add many many more names, such as Aditya Mukherjee, Mridula Mukherjee, Sucheta Mahajan, etc.

    These Historians have time and again stated that the RSS is writing imaginary Indian History in which India is presented as “Original home of world civilisation” RSS booklet number 9 for example says,

    India is the most ancient country in the world. When civilisation had not developed in many countries of the world, when people in those countries lived in jungles naked or covering their bodies with the bark of trees or hides of animals, Bharat’s Rishi-Munis brought the light of culture and civilisation to all those countries.

    Among the examples of the “spread of light of Aryatva by Bharatiya Manishis’ are given as follows:

    1. The credit for lighting the lamp of culture in China goes to the ancient Indians.

    2. India is the mother country of ancient China. Their ancestors were Indian Kshatriyas…

    3. The first people who began to inhabit China were Indians

    4. The first people to settle in Iran were Indians (Aryans)

    5. The popularity of the great work of the Aryans – Valmiki’s Ramayana – influenced Yunan (Greece) and there also the great poet Homer composed a version of the Ramayana.

    6. The languages of the Indigenous people (Red Indians) of the northern part of America were derived from ancient Indian languages.

    (From RSS, School Texts and The Murder of Mahatam Gandhi. The Hindu Communal Project, by Aditya Mukherjee, Mridula Mukherjee, Sucheta Mahajan)

    No scientific Historical evidence is ever presented. History wholesale is INVENTED just so Dr Mishra and his ilk can sustain false swabhiman.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    i think you should learn a bit of self respect… rather than keep accusing Dr Mishra of all sort of things based on your paronia of Hinuds and Hindu names.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    So Vijay you are asking me to supress my views simply because they sit uneasy with IMGINARY stuff Dr Mishra peddles here.

    Please note I quote from scholarly works and not from the RSS propaganda. That you call paranoia.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    These six examples which you have posted, has any of the regular blogger claimed
    that these are historical facts of India ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    Some yes and some not.

    You can read Dr Mishra on how India influenced China bit.

    The general point I make is that we have a History that we can be proud of. None of us were involved in the making of it.

    Why do we feel the need to fabricate some of it, just so we can feel swabhiman.

    The result is often the opposite, we become the laughing stock.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    It is high time that you stop shouting RSS, RSS. India is not controlled by RSS,
    niether they have wherewithal, nor manpower to do so. There is a very tiny section
    which follow their old ideology who have no power to change India as you think they
    are trying to do so.
    You post some **** written by a **** writer and would think that we all believe in this ****. Only you take this **** seriously and in process start believing that India has been taken over by Hindu hard liners.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    I hope you do not mind if I fundamentally disagree with you.

    The debate, not just in India, but the world over is between Left and Right ideologies. I am nothing if I am not a left leaning liberal. In India the RSS is the fountain head of Hindu Nationalism and extreme right wing. Hence why I oppose it.

    **** written by **** writers. If you think that writers I quote from, each one very senior professors in world renowned institutions then I suggest you refine your opinion. These are respected academics not **** writers.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    My main point was, only a very tiny section of society believe in this **** and
    they have no power to change the things as you believe that will do it.
    IMO you are just a paranoid person who see danger of RSS everywhere, where as
    this organization has no power to do anything drastic.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    At one level I may agree with you.

    However, the BJP is RSS’s political front and they are in the parliament. Therefore in a position to form agenda.

    At a wider level, I do firmly believe that the Indian society is at its core a liberal accepting and forgiving society. I do not wish to see it change, hence my anxiety.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    When did discussing RSS or Modi mean shouting RSS, RSS or Modi. Modi?

    I am very glad that RSS does not control India and never will.

    Just because you do not agree with something, does it become ****?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    May be I was not able to put my point across properly. I don’t have a problem if any one
    disagrees with me, it has happened many times on this blog and I am sure it will happen
    in future also. My main objection with Ravi was that he posted six ‘ historical facts ‘ which RSS propagates and he believes that most of Hindus also agree with that ****.
    According to him IMO that RSS is following a sinister policy of taking over India where
    non Hindus will have second class citizenship. He had said this so many times in a many different ways and most of us has argued and reasoned with him that RSS has no
    power to do this. Somehow he always brings up discussion to this same topic of RSS
    ****. That is why I told him that it was high that he stop this as his fear is absolutely
    wrong and unjustified.
    My post was not to offend or abuse anyone. I never do that.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “My main objection with Ravi was that he posted six ‘ historical facts ‘ which RSS propagates

    and

    he believes that most of Hindus also agree with that ****”.

    I do not think he ever implied that, unless my comprehension of the English language is zilch.

    Even I do believe that the RSS has that sinister agenda, that it has not succeeded so far speaks volumes about vast majority of Indians (Hindus, if you like).

    ———-

    Anyone’s icons must be strong enough (and I do believe they are) to withstand any onslaught from any quarter.

    AshishC Reply:

    “Anyone’s icons must be strong enough.,.,to withstand…” absolutely.

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    I urge you to not read pamphlets. Mridula Mukherjee et al are well known historians but it would be correct to state that their reputation was not formed on the strength of the book that you are quoting from.
    Unfortunately, you can write any garbage you want after you are established and part of the establishment.
    Myth-making is not new to history or to India. All countries have several narratives- some more fanciful than others; with varying degrees of official sanction.
    Now, since you are so taken in by the objectivity of Mukherjee, Sarkar, Thapar etc and sleeping with their tomes under your pillow, please answer:
    1. When did (even once would do; just one instance) where any of our stalwart historians, social scientists from AMU/ JNU/ DU etc ever write a pamphlet warning us of the dangers of
    - Islamic fundamentalism
    - Ghetto mentality of the Indian Muslim
    - The danger from the ultra left
    2. Name even one rightist (forget RSS activist) historian employed by JNU/ AMU as a history Prof.
    Of course, Tanika Sarkar claims that this is because no right wing historian of any stature has come up in India. What do you think?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I will, as you probably expected, answer each of your questions.

    Alternative narratives are not an issue. Such alternatives are still constructed on some basis of historical facts. In other words facts remain the same the narrative, at nuance level, is different. One could – in my view successfully – argue the Wendy Donigers book The HINDUS is an attempt to create an alternative narrative. The word alternative is the sub-title of the book. Here the alternative is from the perspectives of Women and Animals. Ramayan is not re-told here, it is just re-interpreted from the perspective of Sita, etc. That is enough to annoy the shit out of the Hindu Right.

    Contrast that with the attempt led by the BJP government to airbrush out of Indian history all such elements that the Hindu Right finds disagreeable, such as the role of Mahtama Gandhi in modern India.

    I am not sure why you ask the questions that you do.

    Since when has it become the role/job of a scientific Historian to predict Islamic Fundamentalism? So if the JNU/AMU type failed, then did the Shishu Mandir and BHU types predict the onslaught of Islamic Terrorism. I suggest not.

    Ghetto mentality is also not a subject tackled by a Historian but Sociologists, many from the JNU have. Happy to provide references.

    JNU is a type of University, it is the epicentre of SECULAR (yes I insist on the use of the word despite it being hijacked by the RSS) scientific History, it therefore attracts birds of a feather. I am not close to the institution to be able to say if any of its staffers are right wing. It would be sad if they weren’t but then that is for the management of the institution to deal with.

    However, tell me which Right Wing historian categorically refutes the theory that Aryans migrated into the Indian mainland from Northern Europe and upon what evidence do they base this assertion. The RSS does. Which Right Wing Historian says that North Pole was at one point located in India. It has moved, leaving Aryans behind. Sarvarkar did.

    Finally, I am open to reading and believing an alternative narrative if it is written with the same academic rigour as the others are.

    Feel free to recommend one.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    my use of the word “warning” was not exact and unequivocal- you took the prediction element of it; I used it in the present tense.
    The question remains- does left leaning history/ sociology necessarily become a narrative of minority victimhood to the extent that it ignores facts?
    I am, ahem, not aware if BHU had a history faculty- it conceivably did.
    RSS and/ or the Hindu right historians- who??- trying to airbrush Gandhi out of the freedom narrative…
    Now, how does one argue with someone who does not know that the strongest criticism of the roles of people like Gandhi and indeed the entire Congress leadership came initially from historians of frankly a lot more scholarship than Thapar and or Sarkars or Mukherjees. They were from the likes of Ranajit Guha (the subaltern school) and Anil Seal (the Cambridge school). These are not Hindu rightist loonies.
    JNU is truly a type of university- today the student body elections threw up Maoist office bearers.
    Back to the point- criticising the Congress/ Gandhi etc role does not make you an incompetent historian. In fact, the marxist historians like Habib have played it safe by co-opting Gandhi in their diction and have thus become acceptable, sarkari if you will.
    Tell me which sarkari historian dares to say a word against Aryan invasion theory- inspite of the genetic evidence which shows migration was a multi-way process?
    Was Savarkar a historian? Ah well, Rahul Gandhi was a management consultant too!
    Do not please only read the Marxist historians- sadly only they seem to be alive in India.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    A lot of pent up anger.

    I am sorry I had to rescue the pamphlet from the fire after you advised me not to read it. Why? you did not eleborate.

    So from the charred pages of Mukherjee pamphlet.

    From P57 of Hari Om’s Contemporary India for Class X a book dealing with the 20th century,

    Gandhiji’s assassination was not even mentioned! When there was a national furore on the question a reprint edition was brought out, which had this bare sentence:

    Gandhiji’s efforts to bring peace and harmony in society came to a sudden and tragic end due to his assassination by Nathuram Godse on January 30 1948, In Delhi while Ganhiji’s was on his way to attend a prayer meeting (p57).

    No mention was still made of who Godse was, and of his strong links with the RSS and the Hindu Mahasabha, particularly with its leader Sarvarkar.

    This is about the level of alternative narrative of the Hindu Right.

    For the rest, I am open to Mr Guha’s re-interpretation of Congress’s role in the Independence Movement. What does Guha have to say of Sarvarkar’s and Golimarkar’s or even RSS’s participation in the Indian Independence movement.

    Anonymous Reply:

    For a AVOWED right winger’s history read NIRAD C CHOUDHURI.
    You will be profoundly disappointed if you are looking for swabhimaan of Smug Mishra type.
    Read Continent of Circe , or Hinduism, a religion to live by.
    As ravi rightly says some are facts and thus undeniable(like loads of **** in quoran and hadith is undeniable , for it is there for everyone to see). By the way it is not incumbent upon sarkar , mukherjee etal to write about the problems with current islamic society. For a start , THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED ENOUGH, IRFAN HABIB IS.
    But irfan habib rather than face up the facts , tried to counter the findings of archaeologists who dug up the Ram Janmabhoomi.
    AND THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM WITH THE MUSLIM SOCIETY /INTELLIGENTIA, spineless , cowards DISHONEST
    According to Nirad choudhuri HINDUS REVELLED IN VIOLENCE
    This is not his opinion , HE QUOTES SANSKRIT TEXTS.
    Also his description of shiva’s wedding to parvati will get the Khaki knickers in a twist. Shiva was uncontrollable and made such noisy amorous encounter , that kept the wedding party awake all night
    (again he quotes relevant sanskrit texts)
    The same person said that there NOT A SINGLE HINDU TEMPLE IN NORTH INDIA THAT WAS NOT RAZED BY THE MUSLIM INVADERS.
    Interestingly THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HINDU TEMPLE OF ANY STANDING IN DELHI FROM ANCIENT TIMES.
    The kalibari is probably 150yrs old.
    By the way did you listen to the music videos , the you tube link to which i provided in the previous blog

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,

    It was not only Irfan Habib who tried to counter the the findings of archaeologists who
    dug up Ram Janma Bhoomi, but, even Romilla Thapar also tried the same.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Again, anything wrong in questioning the findings? The archeologists may be right, but their word is not the word of God, they are as humans as anyone of us.

    If indeed they were right (I do not know one way or the other), then why worry? Truth always prevail.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Court had appointed archaeologists to find out
    whether there were ruins of temples under Babri Masjid. All the interested parties had agreed at the appointments. Then why question the findings of these archaeologists ?
    Only because they found which was not expected by people like Romilla Thappar.

    Anonymous Reply:

    No, no. If the court has accepted the findings, then we have to respect it, but can still be debated.

    However, I am not sure whether the findings have been accepted (you can post the reference), the final verdict is with the Supreme Court, the case is pending and God alone when the judgment will be delivered.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    As far as I know, court gave the decision after taking into
    account the findings of archeaologists. Of course now
    this case is in Supreme court
    and only god knows when the
    verdict will be announced.

    I had mentioned Romila Thapar
    only because some people
    will say that they respect Indian courts only if the verdict matches their formed opinion
    otherwise courts will labeled as
    biased.
    Heads I win Tails you lose.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Heads I win Tails you lose. No, you don’t.

    “I had mentioned Romila Thapar
    only because some people
    will say that they respect Indian courts only if the verdict matches their formed opinion
    otherwise courts will be labeled as
    biased”.

    The same thing was and is being said by the RSS/VHP about the verdict re: Babri Masjid – that they will accept if it is in their favour. So what are we talking about?

    AshishC Reply:

    Sarkar/ Mukherjee/ Habib are as qualified as any one of us to talk about the dangers of communalism of any hue. But, they seem to withdraw into a shell when it comes to minority communalism.
    Shan, I do not say these historians are ****- I am just sad that they are using their formidable reputation to spread tendentious stories.
    I have read the Continent of Circe- but, many years back. I strongly suspect I still have the book in some forgotten corner of the house.
    Please know that I am a Irfan Habib fanboy- his scholarship is above all. Unfortunately, like with Thapar/ Mukherjee etc, he has lent his name to certain projects of dubious scholarship. Nothing to do with his being a Muslim- he is, to the best of knowledge, an atheist. I would not, never, look at Prof Habib from the Hindu/ Muslim prism. It is what the secular/ marxist cabal wishes to present as its view on the Babri controversy and Habib happens to be part of that combine.
    As an aside, let me post a link from Anandabazar to you; rest of the bloggers.. please excuse.
    http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1120303/3cal1.html

    তৃণমূল নেতৃত্বের একাংশ অবশ্য মনে করছেন, বাস্তবিকই ‘উল্টোপথে’ হাঁটছে দল। এক নেতার কথায়, “শাসক দল উন্নয়ন করে। বিরোধীরা আন্দোলন। এটাই গণতন্ত্রের দস্তুর। এখানে তো শাসকরাই মিছিল করে আন্দোলনে নামছে!”
    প্রকাশ্যে কিছু বলেনি। কিন্তু ঘটনা পরম্পরায় যথেষ্ট ‘উৎফুল্ল’ বিরোধী সিপিএম। দলের কেন্দ্রীয় কমিটির এক সদস্যের প্রতিক্রিয়া, “সাত সমুদ্রের গর্জন শোনা যাবে শুনছি! ভালই তো!” সিপিএমের রাজ্য সম্পাদকমণ্ডলীর এক সদস্যের সহাস্য বক্তব্য, “আগে তৃণমূল আমাদের ‘ফলো’ করত। এখন ‘ফলো-অন’ হচ্ছে! আমরা এক বার ব্যাট করলাম, ওরা দু’বার ব্যাট করছে!”

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mamata is falling into the trap laid by CPM. The CPM started this procession , so mamata had to outdo them . Somebody needs to quickly advice her as barun sengupta reminded CPM MASTAN PUSHEY BESHIDIN RAJATYO KORTEY PARBEN NA
    (You cannot rule for long by fostering mastans)

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    On your recommendation I will buy Prof Habib’s book.

    I am not closed to right wing interpretation of our history. I am against HINDU NATIONALISTIC view of our fabricated history. The one much hyped here by Dr Mishra and his chamchas.

    AshishC Reply:

    Do read Ranajit Guha.
    Habib is an authority on Mughal period administration, taxation etc. For contemporary Indian history, read Bipan Chandra (dont like him much), Seal, Guha etc.

    engrich Reply:

    But irfan habib rather than face up the facts , tried to counter the findings of archaeologists who dug up the Ram Janmabhoomi

    under the mosque our archeologists found found iranian structure.check from up govermet.our solicitor general a brhmn has already given HALFIYA BAYAN,that ram was not born in ayodhya.i can assure bloggers he was never born in india.ayodhya was budhdhist place.

    engrich Reply:

    Name even one rightist (forget RSS activist) historian employed by JNU/ AMU as a history Prof

    they dont deserve.our students are not suppose to believe bullshit without any proof.
    but zoinists know,jo achcha lagta
    wahi sachcha lagta.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Add to that one certain N. Rajaram along with Prof. N. Jha claimed to have deciphered the Indus Valley Script, which turned out to be false.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    both are brhmns.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rss people are jews what they want is blood bath through swabhiman.speak lie ,some body challange,beat him.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mishraji, Gopi and Chou en lai hehe
    __________________________________________
    Simply mind blowing sirji, this jugalbandi of yours on history, ghar baithey gyaan ho gaya. Maybe there is SOMETHING to be said for self confidence. Now blogers may not like it but e SIKHS are tiny minority but pay Indias 15 percent tax.
    A sikh boy is taught that Maharaja Ranjit Singh could ride 100 miles a day on horseback. He conqured Lahore and Afghanistan but was very fair to muslims. And banned cow slaughter. So yes sikh boy grows with Charhdi kala and prayers which say raj karega khalsa.

    Gopi and doc have most unique ability to ride thru thousand years of history and somehow link to India. For a malyaaly christian to quote Gita more than pundits is outstanding GOpi.

    Loved that line “twenty years ago a poor muslim boy from ghetto wud not hv confidence like that” vety nice sociological commentary sirji. We embrace rise of these muslims and hope they are Riswans, Shoeb and Pervez of thos blog
    Now I will answer Sanjay Dhawan question part 2

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Balwinder

    Thx for reminding us. I think our leftist and Oxoford trained historians messed things badly for Indian pride.

    The blackhole fo Calcutta could only be seen through the British eyes and publiscised worldwide to make Non goras as animals deserving death.

    But no book of history EVEN NOW TALKS ABOUT THE WHOLESALE EXTERMINATION OF RED INDIANS BY SPREADING PLAGUE THRU BLANKETS DONATED FREE BY COLUMBUS.

    Unless we have self pride and the ability to look back at the worl on equal terms… you are bound to live as mental slaves.

    AUR YEH JEENA BHI KOI JEENA HAI ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    If this wan’t serious, it would be funny.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You have been brainwahsed in Muridke and wont be able to see the truth :)

    Ravi Reply:

    You mean I should have instead gone to Nagpur for brainwashing and then I would have been able to see but the truth.

    Anonymous Reply:

    mo ravi brother… you are just the fig leaf placed on the posterior of Masood Azhar :)

    Your vision of histroy is what he releases as gas :)

    Ravi Reply:

    I am delighted that such gas gets up your nose.

    Job Done

    Anonymous Reply:

    And your job is B_ _ _ Job done to masood azhar

    Ravi Reply:

    Pathetic in Raag Bhairavi

    Anonymous Reply:

    ===================================
    Who will write their real history?
    ————————————————————————

    Few Americans know that one-third of the United States, from San Francisco to Arkansas to Natchez to Florida, has been Spanish longer than it has been “American,” and that Hispanic Americans lived here before the first ancestor of the Daughters of the American Revolution ever left England” (77). British and French fisherman, landing in Massachusetts for fresh water and supplies in 1617, brought the plague to the American indians. “Within three years the plague wiped out between 90 percent and 96 percent of the inhabitants of coastal New England… Unable to cope with so many corpses, the survivors abandoned their villages” (81).

    What the Pilgrims found were settled farms, with the crops already planted and growing, deserted by Indians fleeing the plague. The Pilgrims “found it easy to infer that God was on their side. John Winthrop, governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, called the plague “Miraculous”" (81).

    “These epidemcs probably constituted the most important geopolitical event of the early seventeenth century. Their net result was that the British, for their first fifty years in New England, would face no real Indian challenge” (81).

    The plagues “continued west, racing in advance of the line of culture contact… Disease played the same crucial role in Mexico and Peru as it did in Massachusetts… When the Spanish marched into Tenochtitlan [now Mexico City], there were so many bodies [dead from the plague] that they had to walk on them” (82-3).

    “..the population of the Americas [was] one hundred million in 1492.. Europe had only about seventy million people when Columbus set forth. The Europeans’ advantages in military and social technology might have enabled them to dominate the Americas.. but not to “settle” the hemisphere. For that, the plague was required” (83).

    “.. the land was, in reality, not a virgin wilderness, but recently widowed” (84).

    We also tend, in favor of the Pilgrims, to ignore Jamestown which was settled first. “Historians could hardly tout Virginia… The Virginians’ relations with the Indians were particularly unsavory…the early Virginians engaged in bickering, sloth, even cannibalism. They spent their early days digging random holes in the ground, haplessly looking for gold instead of planting crops. Soon they were starving and digging up putrid Indian corpses to eat or renting themselves out to Indian families as servants” (89-90).

    “..the Pilgrims hardly “started from scratch” in a “wilderness.” Throughout southern New England, Native Americans had repeatedly burned the underbrush, creating a parklike environment… They chose Plymouth because of its beautiful cleared fields, recently planted in corn, and its useful harbor and “brook of fresh water.” It was a lovely site for a town. Indeed, until the plaque, it had been a town..” (90). One of the first things the Pilgrims did was go through the town, looting the possessions of the Indians. “..the Pilgrims continued to rob graves for years” (91).

    “More than any other celebration.. Thanksgiving celebrates our ethnocentrism… God on our side, civilization wrested from wilderness, order from disorder, through hard work and good Pilgrim character traits” (93).

    ——————————————————————————–

    Native Americans
    “Historically, American Indians have been the most lied-about subset of our population” (99).
    Did Europeans “civilize” the Americas? Actually, anthropologists tell us that “hunters and gatherers were relatively peaceful, compared to agriculturalists, and that modern societies were more warlike still. Thus violence increases with civilization” (101-2).

    “..textbooks cannot resist contrasting “primitive” Americans with modern Europeans” (102).

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ HOW FAKE HISTORIANS MESSED IT UP FOR INDIA ~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————

    There was a body of historians who caould only see the world through the communist eyes ir through British imperial eyes. Unfortunatley they managed to peddle a lot of **** about India to Indians.

    I WILL BE GIVING A FEW ACTUAL HISTORY LESSONS. Here is the first one.

    ————————————————————————
    Maharaja Ranjit SIngh
    ———————————————————————–

    Ranjit Singh built up an empire which stretched right upto Afghanistan. He did what NATO and British and the Russians could not do. Tame the tribals of NWFP and got them into a civilised mould.

    Unfortunatley Indian historians initally tried to see Maharaja Ranjit SIngh , Much like Shivaji — as a unreliable , unstable ruler.

    Right till 3 years fake history books of schools said that Ranjit Singh’s fauj was “raping and looting…”

    So the Auranzebis and the British lovers were fair and lovely… the swabhimanis like Ranjit SIngh and Shivaji were just called terroists and guiriallsa fighters…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay

    I am gald you wrote this.

    It has only now become CLEAR the manner in which you use the word “FAKE”.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You are a victim of brainwashing that is it. When the Europeans left for other countries, they were heavily influnced by Malthus. (my theory which cannot be wrong.)

    The natives of the countries were to be thier slaves. Columbus actually left for India.

    In case he had reached India… maybe we would have been what the Red Indians are today.

    NObody will teach you this in Muridke/

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    WEAKNESS OF HINDU CIVILIZATION
    1. hindus did not have a clue about PAPER making (invented by chinese) thus never wrote down anything.So that the SCUMS(read Mishra , ishwar and their ilks) could keep all knowledge as BAAP KA MAAL.Also thus literacy did not expand(another bramhinical satanic ploy to keep people subjugated).This also led to CORRUPTION of texts with SCUMS again interpreting as they wish.Watch the foremost director of art films in india RITUPARNA GHOSH’s ANTARMHAL starring jackie shroff and bacchan jnr.When jackie the jamindar approaches the bramhins for a way so that he can have a male heir THE BRAMHIN SUGGESTS THAT LETTING HIS WIFE SLEEP WITH ONE OF THEM MAY HELP.
    2.Hindus never wrote down their HISTORY
    Only after MR PRINCEP deciphered Bramhi Script MIshra was able to blabber about Ashoka , prior to that hindus did not know about Ashoka.
    THE VILEST OF ALL , THE CASTE SYSTEM and treatment of Dalits
    DEHUMANISING YOUR FELLOW HUMAN KIND LIKE THE BRAMHINS DID ,is without paralell in history. Like you are defiled if the shadow of a dalit touches you
    or even worse if you touch a dalit you willbe born as an insect.
    By the way the swabhimaan twerp called SMUGB mishra , has so much swabhimaan
    that sold his soul to get a british nationality or as they say
    EMPTY VESSEL SOUNDS MUCH

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I will agree with one sent3ence here. That history has to be recorded dispassionately and ot just throiugh the eyes of the victor

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    100% agree

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    May be paper wasn’t around. But we definitely had a script, the art of writing and palm leaves. Though I do agree that knowledge was not democraticised and stayed restricted to the selective few.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    We may have had a script BUT WE WERE STUCK AT POETRY and never graduated to PROSE till the foreign influence.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Poetry, a much higher form of expression.

    Even some chinese ancient stories have reference to hindu sutras suggesting that the top echelon learnt sutras to express and record many exclusive and secret stuff.

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay

    Chinese visitors came to India as did Europeans, there is no disagreement that these visitors went back impressed and laden with Philosophical knowledge.

    Poetry is beautiful and suited to philosophical treatise, but becomes restricted when scientific discourse is necessary. Prose was invented to take the emphasis away from form and place it on content.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I agree about the emphasis on content in prose.

    Just for knowledge sake, was there any recording of scientific discoveries in poetry ? I mean what was the extreme scientific / technical theory recorded in sutras? I am aware of mathematical principles recorded in various sutras.

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay

    My guess would be yes. But these were concepts, prose only became neccessary when emperical evidence had to be prsented.

    That is where Science seperated from Philosophy and invented its own form of expression. Prose.

    Anonymous Reply:

    yes, I missed the emperical evidence part.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ancient Brahmins wrote, says Shan, only poetry,
    but modern day Shaan himself is full of bigotry

    Ancient Chinese knew making of paper
    But today’s China reads govt-printed newspaper

    Our thinkers researched sex and wrote Kamasutra
    while our vaidyas wrote treatises on gomootra

    Others counted on fingers when we had Aryabhatta
    yet, in their hatred for India, Shan &Ravi are chatta-batta.

    AshishC Reply:

    Shan,
    are you suggesting that Brahmins deliberately did not invent paper/ printing texhnology etc just so that they could hoard knowledge?
    Are you seriously suggesting ‘Porno Ghosh’s Antarmahal is a historical narrative?
    Before the Rosetta Stone was discovered, we could not read hieroglyphics either and knew very little of Ancient Egyptian Civilization either. So?
    The Dead Sea Scrolls gave us rare insights into the pre-Christian era. What if they were not discovered? Who would you have blamed? And for what?

    Ravi, since you “100% agreed” with Shan, do please let us know why. Unless it is – my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I do not believe Shan is your enemy and I consider you among my friends. So that emotional outburst was unnecessary.

    My agreement is based upon the fact that India had a long standing oral tradition, whereby sacred texts (and they are just as much a part of History as they are of Philosophy and Religion) was passed from father to son.

    This meant that all benefits that acquisition of knowledge is able to confer was sluggish in its movement in ancient and medieval India.

    I also agree that Brahmins practised a form of restricted trade and their knowledge stayed within a closed nit group based on caste.

    Your conclusion that Shan is saying that Brahmins deliberately withheld the invention of paper, is straight from RajeevS’s book of How to extend logic.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is your perversion and stupidity to call Ashish’s post an emotional outburst, simply because he named one of your most despicable traits.

    Every blogger here knows Ashish is one of the most unassuming, scholarly person with enough intelligence to put fundoos like you in your place.

    Shaan Nirasd Chaudhary did say in so many words that Brahmins deliberately stymied the introduction of paper making technology.

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    emotional? Me? No…
    I do think your agreement with the sum and substance of Shan’s post was hasty.
    And, I don’t know about extended logic- but, I read English. And, there was only one interpretation possible of what Shan wrote. I stand by it.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I did not say bramhins withheld the invention of paper , I do say bramhins made sure paper making technology from china never takes root in Aryabarta, by insisting on the immutability of ORAL TRADITION, a bit like Quoran only needs to be only recited in arabic

    Ravi Reply:

    I think on the topic of you being emotional, your, self-appointed agent got there before you did.

    It is OK for you to stand by what you feel.

    I have no evidence other than long-term reading of Shan’s writings. I do firmly believe that he holds a genuine affection for you. However his devotion to being logical and scientific and the general point scoring milieu of this blog means he adopts a style that often – un-intentionally – appears abrasive. His responses to Balwinder and Dr Mishra are entirely of a different tone and ferocity than those that are aimed at you.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Chinese HISTORIANS wrote extensively about india . The well known ones are Huen sang. There was so much intercourse with china , probably silk making technology came from china WHY PAPER MAKING TECHNOLOGY DIDN’T(ask your conscience).
    The MULLAHS IN OTTOMAN COURT RESISTED FOR 500 YRS THE INTRODUCTION OF PRINTING PRESS INVENTED BY THE GERMANS .But MULLAHS WENT OVERBOARD TO COURT THE GERMAN METAL FORGERS TO HEPL THEM MAKE THE CANNONS.
    As for Rituporno becoming Porno , has the narrative showing bramhins reciting from unholy texts and at the same time watching the jamindar making love , got anything to do with the ritu being dropped from his name.
    Some are facts , like ANTARJALI JATRA. This is a custom of bramhical type. When an old bramhin is about to breathe his last , his body is left in the open in Shamsan ghat. A teenage girl is quickly married off to that man before he becomes a corpse. So that at least she is not in an unmarried status. It is preferable to be a widow than unmarried.(compare with islam , you can get as many times married after divorce)
    History is sumtotal of myths , literature custom woven together , particularly the indian variety AS INDIANS HAVE NO WRITTEN HISTORY so this difficult process of constructing a history.
    What Rituporno shows was a custom prevalent at some point in Hindu society.
    There is historical record of Jamindar of Dhaka , whose 6yr old daughter is widowed on the wedding night as the groom is bitten by a snake, pleading with bramhins. His plea is to allow her daughter to get remarried as she is AKHOTO JONI(intact hymen)
    PATHETIC isn’t it

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    On July 3 1908excavation at Phaistos, Crete, chanced upon one of the most remarkable objects in the history of technology. … a small flat, unpainted, circular disc of hard baked clay, 61/2 inches in diameter. …a total of 241 signs or letters was neatly divided by etched vertical lines into group of several signs, possibly constituting words. It has antiquity of around 1700 B.C. next efforts did not appear until 2500 years later in China and 3100 years in medieval Europe. page 241- Guns, Germs and Steel.
    Silk worms were smuggled from China to the Mideast in AD 552. Mind it by smuggling as Silk worms and silk production was kept in a secret by chineses. you do not expect them to gift that secret to india. page 256, same book.
    I am aware of the situation about marriage to old brahmins of young girls practiced in Bengal some 2-3 hundred years back. leaving virgin girls( carrying premium in those days) will expose them to all dangers of human predators, purchasers and looters of hot flesh. While conquering a married woman may not hold same charm. Rarely girl saw the old man much less consumation of so called marriage. the system was prevalent more for girls safety and old man’s receiving some cash or kind rather than satisfying his carnal desires. Seen in present days prism, practice look reprehensible, but may be that was the only safety, a dying father could have provided to his young and younger daughters.( My interpretation).

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,

    It is a common practice to look at the ancient rituals/practices from the current point of view and
    in process criticize/demonize religions, castes etc.
    We have been evolving and most of these ”reprehensible’ practices are abandoned already.
    On the contrary credit should go to the society for
    realizing their mistakes and correcting those.
    Though lot has been done but still we have not yet
    fully come out of the clutches of castesim where more
    rigorous efforts are required to eliminate this menace.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    In full agreement here.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mohan;
    Looking at the practice of Sati in those times and geography, there are many reasons, A young widow, without children, has only as much utility to family as maid servant. Further, her young age will definitely entice young unmarried members of family or even patriarch.All around a very disturbing/ destabalizing effect can be predicted. Usurping his late husband’s property and her Stree Dhan is a prime motive in it self. A young woman without husband is an open invitation, even to outsiders. This whole scenario might have prompted the killing of this young widow, giving it a veneer of religiosity or bein pativrata. Reformers like Raja Ram Mohamn Roy, led the movement and now only once ina decades or so so, we hear this from most backward regions of India. practice has ceased to exist in practical terms.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr Shantanu

    Weakness or not, the Indian civilization has remained in tact, survived, adapted while all other civilizations fell victim to the times.

    Torah and Bible were not written on paper either..

    The notion of evil Brahims controlling knowledge is far fetched. What knowledge was controlled? Was it cultivation and agriculture, was it moulding clay, was it making steel, was it irrigation…….. Did Brahmins rule any land?

    As far as “keeping it in the family”, preserving the possessions etc — didnt it happen throughout history all over, may be except the native-Americans?

    btw somebody made a statement in this blog that Amar Singh said whoever is the CM of UP, four bureaucrats and two industrialists control UP.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Gopi;
    Paper was invented in China and many civilizations did not possess paper for hundreds of years. alternatives were used. If you go through the current history books, you will find that that like many trades/ professions, developing language and writing was work of few people, who acquired exclusivity by being very few in their chosen expertise. This got them certain privilages. Development of written and spoken language has tremendous impact on growth of human civilization, so you can not blame, people, who by accident of birth or as an acquired skill, felt a bit different and privilaged. Mal treatment of Dalits and defeated people, though reprehensible, more so in enlightened societies of world, was a usual practice, seen in every ancient society. At least it was better than killing spree, indulged in by victors, world over.Not justifying that discrimination, but it had sanction of society of that time and brahmins not the creator of this system, it looks like this was given a religious flavour, so that it becomes more acceptable by society. Who directly benefited from this? mostly big landowners and or herd owners for cheap or free labpour.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj

    I am in sync with the analysis.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,

    Very good analysis.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj , yours is a “tunnel vision” history. In India cobblers to date are at the lowest rung of society. THEY ARE LOOKED DOWN UPON.Contrast this with ENGLAND CIRCA 1500.
    Christopher Marlowe’s dad was a cobbler. COBBLERS HAD THEIR OWN GUILD, YOU NEEDED TO GO THROUGH APPRENTICESHIP FOR FEW YRS BEFORE YOU PLY YOUR TRADE. And oh yes you needed LICENSE.
    IN INDIA CHAMAR’S ARE UNTOUCHABLE DUE TO HINDU SOCIAL CODES.
    Now CHRISTOPHER MARLOWE won a scholarship to study in CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY, which even shakespeare did not qualify. Marlowe is one of the great playwright of english language. HE ALSO WORKED AS A SPY FOR HER MAJESTY’S GOVT

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shan;
    Did I use any ” adjectives” with you like Tunnel vision or for that matter ” visionary of any description? No. As we are saying repeatedly, indian society is evolving and it is work in progress, while english society, which has evolved many centuries aahead of us in certain ways, had freed themselves from such evils. though as late as 100 years back, class system was as rigid in england and or France, Russia etc.
    For Chamars, A person from that caste is absolute ruler of biggest state of India. Many, so called OOnche Jaatwala,can not get her Darshan. though actively helped by some one goes with last name Mishra, Who must have touched her innumerable times, if not drunk from same glass and must have bowed to her thousands of times. So, it is power that make people to be differential or otherwise. Her Jaatwala, who has understood importance of education, are progressing. Shiv Raj Singh Chauhan, another dalit/ Pichhda varg. Nitish kumar, a Kurmi(OBC), DMK (OBC) Anant Gowda(OBC) Modi (OBC) number is rising and so be it. It should be encouraged. By mentioning Marlowe and Shakespere in one breath and implying shakespere was a play writer too but…

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am not talking about “India After Gandhi” , which despite its shortcomings is GUARANTEED to catch up and surpass the rest of the world in 150 yrs.
    I am trying to analyse the causes of its being left behind so long.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Yes, here I will partly agree with you. many bad practices and customs weakened Indian society and were cause of enslavement of India for a millenium or so.
    A scene from Shatranj ke khiladi, where English Fauz was going to Lucknow and a herd boy calmly grazing his goats, nawabs, playing Chess, could have happened only in India and not anywhere else in World because of disconnect of public at large and rulers. Koi Nrap hoi hamen kya haani.

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ WHY HISTORY IS IMPORTANT~~ real history wich gives the big picture ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————

    History was never my favourite subject school even though I liked it because it was easy to score marks in. But the more i probe into history, the more I realise it is important.

    Hiuntington’s thesis of the clash of civilisations is what drives the world today. It is necessary that everyone should have a bigger picture of how we can UNITE the world today. In this context, religion will be smaller than the bigger picture which gives history starting from evolution– and not just from when your religion started or your hero/heroine was born…

    Well, right now a Cricket game beckons me… and let me bowl a few overs to the teenagers and show them how the real spinner of the India never played for team India…

    I will be back soon !

    Gopi if you are arround, why dont you tell us on how the Red Indians were exterminated giving false reason– they would well have been 200 million today. And why Ranjit Singh was not taken serioulsy by British histoirans and the Nurul hasan gang. which wrote our current history.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    I am happy that you mentioned Samuel huntington’s ‘ Clash of civilizations”.
    There is uncanny similarity in what is happening in today’s world and what was predicted some 50 years back.
    This is from Guns-Steel and Germs:
    40 thousand Inca / Aztec warriors were defeated 100 plus Spaniards by horses (Mounted cavalary) Muskets, with their booming sound and Surprise/ treachery. Later on hundreds of thousands were killed, by germs, aliens to native Americans, never exposed to them hence never developed immunity against the. That is how Red Indians were decimated in the North America. Fascinating book, you should read it” Guns, Steel and Germs. A history of human civilization.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    they are liars,they want to hide their crime.most of them were killed.story is same in north america south america canada or australia and newzeland.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    now the same game is going on middleeast.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx

    Will definately read this Pankaj

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi-
    You are right about the impact of the consecutive decline in GDP growth, and what if the trend continues.

    I noticed while in US in Dec/Jan that the political fight there is about whether to control the debt VS whether the government should continue stimulus spending. Republicans, the main advocates for debt reduction constantly talked about the Greek/Italian/Spanish scenarios that will happen if debt is not controlled. Democrats argued that this is not the time to focus on debt, and the focus should be on stimulus and job creation. I watched a TV program where Paul Krugman stated that republicans are pushing debt control to make the economy dive down further so Obama will lose reelection.

    While our situation is not as dire, it could become quite bad if the downward trend continues. The NREG, fuel/fertilizer subsidies etc have resulted in the fiscal deficit to (estimated) 5.6% this year instead of the budgeted 4.6%. The proposed food security bill will pour multi-crore rupees into the public distribution sytem notorious for wastage and corruption. And as you know, once it is implemented, it will be difficult to kill it in future, creating another permanent “subsidy”.

    The good news is that our saving rate , about 32%, is about 10% points higher than ten years ago. My gut is that progressive state administrations, such as Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, Punjab, and may be Bihar under Nitin will look out for what they can do for their states and do not mess with the meddlesome inept centre.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb,

    Surprising that Rebuplicans are advocating debt reduction, when during their tenure
    debt of US had skyrocketed. Only during the Clinton era US budget came into surplus.
    Some economists now are trying to claim that the surplus of Clinton era was a myth.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan-

    Correct. Republicans were mum when George Bush accumulated trillions of debt through two wars, two tax cuts, and as I understand an expensive medical reimbursement program for elderly.

    They are putting all of that now on Obama…and it seems their rank and file – Tea Party – believes that.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Mohan and Shoeb

    The basics of economics is that you got to sell somthing to have the money to buy something. Maybe the US forgot it some time back and kept borrowing from China and blowing it up in bombs.

    The real issue now is if the US gets sidelined as the world power, there is a danger that a non democratic– or religious coalition may want to occupy that space.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay-

    US still is extremely wealthy in gross numbers as well as on a per capita.Although China is growing leaps and bounds, the dollar per person is quite small when you divide the wealth by 1.5 billion people.

    China needs US markets; US needs China to buy their TBills. So, both hare vested in each other. I think they may work together to share world resources.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb/Vijay

    US – The money printing machine of the world -

    The main advantage US has that no country can absorb the huge surpluses of China and Japan.
    Countries with surpluses have no other alternative
    - at the moment – but to buy US debt to park their money. After all according to rating agencies US still
    is enjoying AAA rating.

    Anonymous Reply:

    very enlightening discussion. Are you aware AMERICA IS PAYING OUT 5 BILLION DOLLAR EACH DAY TO SERVICE ITS DEBT

  • Anonymous

    Fascinating discussion about History and related topics. I am glad to stand outside, just watch and read. Carry on, gentlemen.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ HOW THE CORRUPT RE-WRITE HISTORY ~~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    The Maywati government has been amongst the most corrupt though not criminal like Mulayam Singh’s governments.

    The Congress is now using typical blackmail. It has arrested Babu SIngh Kushawaha and Babu Singh has threatened to leak out details of Mayawati’s corruption.

    Now Congress has thrown a carrot at mayawati. Make a government with us OR face CBI probe and possible arrest…. This is what they did with A raja and DMK.

    That is the COngress message. As usual this will be treated as political acumen by Congress fans.

    Others who believe in India and not just the dynasty will pine for an effective Lok Pal to punish the NRHM looters.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Credit should be given to the shrewdness of congress. They know how to play
    their cards. Before Mayawati can think of aligning with someone else, she has
    to face the wrath of CBI, i.e Congress Bureau of India

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ MOhan

    Well the cricket fan in you must applaud that the spinner in me bowled out two youngsters in their teens :)

    But now for some ‘A’ stuff with a bottle of Absolut vodka on ur and Panka’s recommendation and that of some friends in my House.

    Yes. Very strange happening in India. Corruption is a non issue with parties… but just a stick to beat the opponent to get power. The Congress with its shrewd teams of lawyers– Chidmabram, Sibal, Singhvi, Tewari and what not has broken all records of using law illegally (morally) to make the criminals support it.

    Wah re Congress. Mahatma Gandhi bhi lawyer the’…

    And compare them with the current breed who hold power in Congress now ! Wah Wah Wah !!

    Kya girawat hai. !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    May be they just threw their wickets to make ‘uncle’ happy. (:

    You should also sometimes try Grey gouse, a very fine vodka.

    Nothing more to add about the lawyers in congress party,
    you said it all.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well the youngsters were polite enough to through a few bouncers at “uncle” with a leather ball which could give a real leathering to the balls…

  • Anonymous

    Vijay

    I hope this Mulayam Singh does not come. I audit in Ghaziabad and Hapur.
    Last time they were in power, all the muscle power was with gundaas and criminals. Many factories had to pay extortion money.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo

    I hope so too. “UP is cursed” as somebody said in this blog.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    A bigger curse will be if Mulayam comes to power with the support of the congress party. The extortion will be double.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    My answer has jumped right on top! Anyway I hope Mulayam changes…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well it would be very sad that full blown crime backs to UP in the name of Caste and criminal alliances. last time with Amar Singh in tow– Mulayam always got favoourable Press as Amar Singh doled out land to the media houses. So the huge crime was not covered.

    This time I hopw the media is more balanced

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dr. Mishra

    You rejoinder

    “Manohar, for that time the hindu civilisation was perhaps the most advanced in the world. The progress in math was stupendous with the zero and decimal having changed the world forever.
    Aryabhat said the earth is round and revolves around the sun in 490 AD !!!

    etc.

    Nobody is denying the contribution of Indian civilisation to the knowledge base of the world. My contention, we do not need to trash other people’s views or contribution of other civilisations to show how our own is superior or the only one.

    Whether Indian civilisation (I do not know which era/period you are referring to) was most advanced or not can be a matter of debate. Has any historian made any comparative study of the various cilivilisations and then ranked them? Even if there is a such piece of work, then again it would be debatable.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Manohar thanks- I clearly said ‘ perhaps the most advanced…’
    Here in UK, such a blatantly jingoistic and nationalistic version of history has been taught till very recently. Not saying we copy them, just need to praise the best of our past.
    I have not trashed other civilisations. I have clearly stated that the Samarkand and Bukhara were then bastions of Islamic art and Architecture. more later
    Thank you

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Since we are discussing history – does anybody know what happened to Nana Sahib (of Sepoy Mutiny fame)? Is there any book on where/when he disappeared?

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Dear Gopi;
    To best of my impression, Nana saheb from Bithoor near kanpur and contemporary of Tatya tope, were with Rani Jahnsi, correct me if I am wong, Mahewsh and Manohar, and certainly very active during 1857, may be also were part of seige of residency at Lucknow. he must have died in any of such wars or may be he accompanied begam hazrat mahal to Nepal and died sometime later, there.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    From the Internet

    A Maratha, one of the leaders of the First War of Independence, Nana Saheb was born in 1824 to Narayan Bhatt and Ganga Bai. In 1827 his parents went to the court of the last Peshwa Baji Rao, who adopted Nana Saheb, thus making him heir-presumptive to the throne.

    Nana Saheb was well educated. He studied Sanskrit and was known for his deep religious nature. On the death of the last Peshwa, Baji Rao-II, in 1851 the Company’s Government stopped the annual pension and the title. Nana Saheb’s appeal to the Court of Directors was not accepted. This made him hostile towards the British rulers. When the First War of Independence broke out, he assumed leadership of the mutineers in Kanpur. After seizing Kanpur, which had a small British garrison, Nana Saheb proclaimed himself the Peshwa and called for the total extermination of the British power in India.

    Kanpur was recaptured by the British under General Havelock and the last serious engagement (16 July, 1857) resulted in a total rout of Nana’s forces. Nana rode away to an unknown destination in Nepal in 1859 and probably perished in the jungle.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    SWAAAAAAAA BHI MAAAAAN”””””””’

    Fairly predictable, this blog. First of all, a big thank you to Gopi, Ashish, Vijay, our beloved Praji, Mohan, Shinoy and all others for their contributions. I started this thread because every now and then, I give my Swabhimaan injections in the fond hope that someone, somewhere, like Faizan, will read and it will energise him and change his life.

    Umeed pey tho duniya kayam hai.

    Predictably also, those who deeply resent or disbelieve the glories of the Hindu and Indian civilisation also had their two cents. I will respond to all your queries later.
    Thank You

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Vijay haha just read your comment. What would India do without the can- do spirit of you Punjabis.
    ‘ ….and let me bowl a few overs to the teenagers and show them how the real spinner of the India never played for team India…’ haha great Vijay Bedi

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    :)

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    People who worked out complex astronomy and binary maths, not to talk of surgical and medical treatises, WROTE IT SOMEWHERE. A lot was lost in the ravages of time.

    The mindblowing caves of Ellora, where a whole temple could be constructed out of a single piece of rock, was lost to the whole world till its discovery 200 years ago.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    By 2000 BC, in what must have been a remarkable advance for the world, the Hindus had already moved to urban cities with sewage, roads and a civic structure by which the economy and law was governed

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Plonker like you ignorant that you are thiose people were not HINDUS.
    They were people from Harappa and Mohenjadaro , vedic hinduism has no LINK whatsoever. That civilization vanished like the ICE AGE

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ CIngulate

    Expand your mind. history cannot be just about what happened after my god/religous head/prophet was born.

    You have to see that subcontinental history and science existed before BC.

    Anonymous Reply:

    So were ancient Greek, Egyptian, Mayan, Chinese and Mesopotamia civilisations among others as old or older than our own. The first pyramid (an engineering marvel) was built around 2700 BC. So what are we talking about – that we were great and the rest duffers?

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    Were pyramids built by Hindus?

    Anonymous Reply:

    They were built by the LeT actually

    Ravi Reply:

    As I said you are a pathetic Hindu Fundo

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Frankly I want to change you. Even if I convert ONE fundmantalist to reason, my life would have a new meaning.

    On a larger plane, as I told you before, I am writing a novel with a character of a jehaid ideologue, modelled on you. Now in case I can convert you through logic and comapssion, I will get the happy end for my novel.

    Otherwise… I would be forced to give a suicide bombing end to the ideologue….

    Ravi Reply:

    Keep up your fantasies.

    Just in case you harbour any misconceptions.

    If, in the middle of a Delhi May day, I was knocked unconscious by a Blue Bus at the Ajmeri Gate bus-stop and merely a gulp of water was separating me from sure death. I would choose death over accepting that last gulp of water from you.

    Ashish and I are positioned – equidistant – on either side of the fulcrum where the political continuum balances, even then I rather he kicked me to death than you offer me a glass of sweet शबील on the शहीदी गुरपुरब Day.

    I hope that clarifies the situation and adds more material to your fictional novel.

    Anonymous Reply:

    O boy this is real hate for a simle guy like me who loves his country more than himself.

    Ravi Reply:

    To hate you would mean I care. Which frankly I don’t

    I care more about my deeply held inclusive liberal outlook than I care about you.
    False patriotism may satisfy you, it does not me.

    Anonymous Reply:

    LeT = Lovely English Tart?

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar.
    No body is saying that we were greatest and rest duffers. But at the same time, no body should say, we the duffers and rest the greatest.

    engrich Reply:

    we were greatest

    any proof.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Never did I say that. History is a composite accumalation of knowledge.

    There is a tendency in India of being ashamed of our own.

    History written by Anglo Saxons never wrote about the people who were conquered, dispassionatly.

    We are duffers becasuse we never asserted what was good about us.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay and Pankaj bhaau

    Who is ashamed of our cilvilisation? I have not seen that tendency, there may be some crackpots around though.

    Nobody in general says we are duffers.

    Even some people say so, what should we do? Go and punch them in the nose!

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Shan,

    Then what happened to these people from Harappa and Mohanjadaro? How did they vanish in thin air without leaving any trace.?Have you kept yourself updated on recent findings . Harappa and Mohenjadaro were only the first two such sites discoverd. Many such sites have been since found extending from west Afghanisthan of today to Gujrat and Haryana . Such a vast area having similar civilizational remenants of same period can not vanish without any trace. This civilization is not any different civilization. It is part and parcel of same Indian Civilization that is under reference here.

    Aryan Invasion theory has now been converted to Aryan Migration theory. But why? The need is to grasp more and probably read less.

    engrich Reply:

    Then what happened to these people from Harappa and Mohanjadaro? How did they vanish in thin air without leaving any trace
    they were enslaved many of then gone to south.anything which brhmn touch becomes mud.

    Anonymous Reply:

    If you look at the statuettes , any brain dead person can make out these are a totally different people/civilization. ? was it greater SUMERIA.In any case this is what may have happened
    We don’t know what happened to the Indus River Valley civilization. It seems to have been abandoned about 1700BC. It is possible that a great flood weakened the civilization. The moving tectonic plates that created the Himalayas may have caused a devastating earthquake. It is also possible that the people may have been defeated by another culture

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Shan,

    Land can be abandoned , but arts,crafts , culture can not be totally abandoned. There will be continuation of same in some form or other.That too for a civilization spread over such a vast area.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    In 200 BC, Emperor Ashok had put up his own personal sayings all over his kingdom on tablets of stone. While many were in prakrit, the ones in modern day Afghanistan, which were on the then border with Greece, were written in the Greek language of the time.

    Mera Bharat Mahan

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    ah, history, my passion. when two of the greatest civilisations the world has ever known- Hindu and Chinese- said hello to each other across the Himalays.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think many a time the bloody point is missed. That the whites wrote history to give an inferiority complex to the Non Anglo saxon so that they became willing slaves.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    submit the proof i will accept.dont ask to believe.in vaishnav devi u erect shvlng from refrigeration cycle then ask indians to believe.they believe but my friend sarves trivedi dont go,says am i fool.

    glories comes from building roads hospital cities scientific developments,like u must have seen in egypt.show something like underground cities under pyramid.
    as a indian i feel proud but when our doctors are caught with crores and crores of stolen money i feel shy and ashamed.
    india was introduced to west by ibn beruni in a very good words.in old days ministry of religious affairs was most active ministry in india,while ministry of governance was most most important in china.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I get the feeling you are equating Hinduism exclusively with the inhabitants of the subcontinent in the days gone by. Was it so, because I am not sure if there was any religion by that name. Even today, it is not and described more as a way of life.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Well this post jumped … like the crime in UP which may now !! It was meant for Shenoy and Vinoo

    Bad days ahead ofr UP. despite her megalomania… Mayawait was not patrionising too many criminals. the few who were hers were big dons– DP Yadav, Mukhtar Ansari etc– who were borrowed form Mulayam.

    During Mulayam’s time — crime in the name of caste uprising was rife. Vinoo you talked about Hapur. Let me tell you a true story of Ghaziabad. SP workers out there were given cards of “electricity consultant” for extra income.

    One of my clients from delhi was makign a factory and I was on a site visit.

    Now a group of these SP “electricity consultants” descened there. Their proposition
    ” Give us 15000 a month . We will reduce your electricity billl by 30,000 per month. ”

    My client an upright exporter said. ” I dont need this favour. I will pay everything honestly…”

    The tone of these “consultants” got menacing. ” You will have to give us the money anyway… so it is better you take some advantage…”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Does patronising big dons borrowed from Mulayam or not too many make her an angel?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar.

    She is no angel compared to you or me. But certainly a big angel comapred to Mulayam Singh’s gangsters/

    Strange– Bihar kicked out Lalu and his gang. UP cannot.

    Mulayam was against computers and english… but then the media loved him for the favours Amar Singh doled to media houses.

    I doubt UP can change dramtically without division.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Therefore your point was?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Have we not heard it before ?

    “Gandhi ke desh mein computer ka kya kaam hai ?”

    Anonymous Reply:

    One good thing which we all can be proud of is that the election machinery and process works relatively smooth, corruption free (unlike the old days when party goondas could seize the booths, do false ballots etc so the party in power remains in power)…

    If this can be strengthened with strict requirements of qualifications – that no tainted individual can contest – will help.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    That is only initial part of our democracy – say the first step. Then we start faltering.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Only if you were not jumpy yourself. ;-)

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Shan;
    For you with Love.
    HINDUISM — SCIENTIFICALLY proven RELIGION (part 2 of 3)
    Go to you tube, search this title, and you will see or do not see, what you want to see or do not want to see.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    pankaj ,

    i asked u what is hinduism.u did not awnser.pls awnser.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    engrich;
    People who abuses others’ mothers are not worth talking to. let some time pass before I can forget your use of abuse.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj dont take notice of this termite. Sadly becasue Ravi has been sidelined for the moment, he will send Engrich to derail debate and get it on RSS :)

    Limited vision, limited thought !

    Ravi Reply:

    Sidelined by whom and when.

    You could not side line your own frookhabadi car without the help of your Jarkhandi driver.

    You fancy yourself, don’t you.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    I have no illusions for myself as I realise I will not be able to replace Leander Paes…

    Today as I type this– three college friends along with their wives/girls are reading this. One of them, Micky is a real son of a ***** who was chasing the same girl at the DTC bustop; the other Anupam… is a double son of a ***** who knocked my nose in a friendly boxing match in 3rd yr.

    But I am serving absolut vodka and corn salad to them…

    But with you the divide is about ideology… and the gap will never get over…. :)

    But the sad fact is I sometimes wonder why you went into the wrong track of surreptitiosly supporting jehadi ideologies and trying to demolish India and HIndus from inside.

    Well now I raising my glass high… and pray I can change your thinking one day…

    Ravi Reply:

    Raise your glass for the re-emergence of the Ram Setu Bridge above sea level. For that will definitely happen sooner than you will be able to convert me.
    My sympathies are with your friends.

    engrich Reply:

    i never abuse u ,i abused a mad man who abused my prophet.
    here i want to understand hinduism.u are avoiding question because u also dont know.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Never claimed that I am a Pundit of Hinduism or Historian of great scholarship. Just speaking from common experience.

    Anonymous Reply:

    To understand hinduism my dear engrich a small part of body
    is required which unfortunately you do not have.
    It is called BRAIN.
    The bigger unfortunate thing is that you do not even understand your
    own religion islam.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    tell me if u know.i promise i will try to understand.i know my religion well.though i am not practising muslim.

  • engrich

    नई दिल्ली।। कांग्रेस महासचिव दिग्विजय सिंह ने एक बार फिर आरएसएस और बीजेपी पर हमला बोलते हुए कहा है कि देश में संघी सोच वाले लोगों को आईएएस, आईपीएस सेवाओं में ही नहीं, न्यायपालिका में भी भरा जा रहा है। उन्होंने कहा सांप्रदायिक ताकतें गुजरात में कुछ हद तक कामयाब रहे प्रयोग को दूसरे राज्यों में भी लागू करने की कोशिश शुरू कर चुकी हैं।

    2002 के गुजरात दंगों के 10 साल पूरे होने के मौके पर आयोजित एस सभा को संबोधित करते हुए उन्होंने सवाल किया कि हम इस तरह की विचारधारा के लोगों को IAS, IPS और यहां तक कि न्यायपालिका जैसी संस्थाओं में सक्रिय क्यों देखते हैं? सिंह ने कहा कि संघ के संगठन UPSC के उम्मीदवारों के लिए भी कोचिंग चला रहे हैं। उन्होंने कहा, ‘मुझे इस तरह की जानकारी मिली है कि संघ के संगठन यूपीएससी के उम्मीदवारों के लिए कोचिंग क्लासेज चला रहे हैं, जिन्हें UPSC के सदस्य मदद देते हैं। जब आप पिछले कुछ साल में UPSC के विशेषज्ञ पैनल में बुलाए गए लोगों का विश्लेषण करोगे तो इसे समझोगे और देखोगे कि इस तरह के कितने उम्मीदवारों ने IPS या अन्य सेवाओं में प्रवेश किया है।’

    सिंह ने कहा कि राज्य एक तरह से सांप्रदायिक शक्तियों की सफल प्रयोगशाला बन गया है जो पूरे भारत में अपने एजेंडे को बढ़ावा देने के लिए काम कर रही हैं। उन्होंने कहा, ‘हमारी लड़ाई उस विचारधारा से है जो नफरत का संदेश देती है। जिस तरह से हिटलर ने एक विचारधारा को अपनाकर उसे राष्ट्रवाद का रंग दिया, उसी तरह भारत में सांप्रदायिक शक्तियां काम कर रहीं हैं।’

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Teesta and her follies.
    Good analysis of gujarat riots case.

    So, the news about SIT recommending a closure is indeed true. If Zakia had not heeded to the lousy objectives of the Teesta gang, she would have been able to get justice in her favour.
    - Arundhati Roy kicked-off the botching of her case when she first wrote in the Time magazine that Mr. Jaffrey’s daughter had been raped and killed. Jaffrey’s eldest son, T A Jaffrey refuted it saying that she was alive and safe abroad. This was followed by a public apology letter by Arundhati.
    - Then came the case of Sayeeda, where they were unable to produce the identity, relative or body of Sayeeda, nor could they produce the eye-witnesses they calimed to have. All that sickulars could muster again was a ’sorry’.
    - The media reports in the initial days after the fateful incident lauded the police efforts in doing its best to protect 250-odd Muslims who from the Hindu scoundrels numbering in thousands (In fact, the Asian Age and India Today had reports saying that police saved about 200 Muslims in the carnage that left many Muslims and 3 Hindu scoundrels dead and many Hindu (scoundrels) injured. These reports are available in print archives. The number was later confirmed at ~68 (~50 dead + ~18 missing).
    - The initial FIR filed by Zakia had three Congressmen named as culprits. In came Teesta, and the FIR was change to exclude those three names. Worse still, the very police officers who did their best to control thousands of Hindus were named as accused. The fact was that the police (about 130 personnels) were grossly outnumbered. Those officers must be wondering why they risked their lives for Mr. Jaffrey!!
    - The FIR was modified to mention that 150 were killed. The count from initial-day reports stand at ~68, including those missing for 7 years.
    - The initial FIR mentioned that Mr. Jaffrey had called the mayor, leader of opposition and police commissioner. By heeding to Teesta and naming Modi as another person called upon by Mr. Jaffrey, Teesta broke all norms of Poker by raising the stakes too high with no evidence to back them up. Needless to mention, no phone records were produced to support these claims.
    - Then came the peripheral allegations from Bhatt and other disgruntled officers to buttress the case of the sickulars. They should have realized that legal cases are fought on evidence, not rhetorics.

    One must laud Mr. Raghavan for staying unmoved by relentless social pressures, political interventions, diatribes, lure of money et al. The fact of the matter is that if Mrs. Jaffrey had remained honest in her crusade, the outcome would have been in interest of her family as well as the nation. While they will obvioulsy take the appeal to SC, it is unlikely that Court will recommend another investigation. The litigants have themsleves to blame for the sad situation that Mrs. Jaffrey finds herself in.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    John

    Who funds Teestas and Arundhatis??? I satted in the last blog that in any otehr country a Teesta would have been in jail by now on the sayeeda false witness issue.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Dr Pankaj welcome back. Where were you? Any comments on my mile long posts on Chu Tsai, Aryabhatt, Mohenjodaro etc ?

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mishraji;
    Agreeing with you. Though not read much about Chu Tsai, I know about Mongols being Animists and very destructive people, practicing Scorched Earth Policy, devastating Europe and Citadels of Islam. These Mongols were converted to Buddhism and have become quite pacifists.
    Legacy of Mongols survive today as we see, many muslims feel proud to use last name as Khan. Bahadur is another word, which came from Mongols. Even today, they are Horse riders of rare distinction. By rapings, they have left their genetic impressions practically everywhere in Eurasia.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    outside mongolia nearly all mongols converted to islam.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    1) Yesterday I had raised the question addressed to Sanjay as to what was the reason that Atal Behari Vajpayee was not able to realise his full potential, was it because of the stifling grip the RSS has on the BJP. He felt that this was not the forum to discuss this, so I did not pursue the matter further with him.

    2) However, today Gopi said in another thread “BJP is a rudderless party. Golden opportunities are wasted consistently”. Is this because of the same reason – stifling grip the RSS has on the BJP?

    Or are there other reasons?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    Interesting. BJP is a political party which neccesitates it to have poicies on a wide ranging topics. It is held back because the RSS wishes it to prioritise its social engineering project – Hinduatva – above all else.

    For as long as that remains the status quo, BJP will not be able to realise its full potential.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    Perhaps you are right.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar
    Vajpayee did what he could do in one term – the natioanl golden traingle grid, river link etc were important visionary accomplishments- river link yet to be executed. . He had several “jehadi” issues to deal with too – hijacking of IA flight, parlaiment attack etc. i believe he did more in 5 years than what congress did in 50 years — that is another debate.

    On the second point regarding opportunities wasted, lack of leadership etc – BJP has to develop aggressive cadre of leaders; they seem to be so laid back.
    The UP election planning, managing etc is a classic example of a party without a cohesive idea, vision. I do not think it has anything to do with RSS; for RSS would have done a focused campaign.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Absolut :) 100% right gopi !

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Agree with you Gopi.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    1) “I believe he did more in 5 years than what congress did in 50 years”

    Then what happened in 2004? Surely the Indian voter is not that ungrateful and unmindful – It has kept returning parties (actually only the Congress at the centre and others too in states) to power.

    2) Laidback!

    Why? That was my question and I still will like to get some idea.

    3) You said during his tenure he had to deal withe several jehadi issues.

    Aren’t you forgetting some domestic issues?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    this country’s electorate, always voting on caste considerations, voted Rajiv Gandhi to absolute power within a couple of months of his ordering the massacre of Sikhs for killing his dear mother!

    Indira Gandhi had all the power, prestige, adulation of the masses after the Bangladesh victory against Pakistan. Why then had she to resort to emergency to keep herself in power?

    Later, a country that suffered 28 months of absolute terror at the hands of the congress under the emergency, returned the same party to power within 2 years. Now, how could the country forget all the suffering, nasbandi, corrtuption and aeroplane treatment and jackboot emergency rule?

    This only partly explains the irrationality of the electorate, made up of illiterate voters and the rationality of corrupt, scheming political leaders.

    If therefore, Vajapayee lost in 2004 after giving the country one of its best rule post Independence, it shouls also be attributed to the irrationality and ungratefulness of the electorate.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I thought our critical analysis could be misconstrued beyond a point.

    Truly speaking, in my opinion, it had more to do with Vajpayee’s inadequecy rather than RSS’s grip.

    RSS had people of its choice in Home, education ( MHRD ) and I believe they were OK with that. They wanted some changes happen under the cover. Those two ministries were more than enough for them.

    Vajpayee knew there was no alternative to him in the coalition politics. So he somehow enjoyed that exclusivity. He hardly had any drive to bring about that drastic change. I am of opinion, Advani would have tried to bring about some spectacular ideas to consolidate the position for BJP.For good or bad, he would have tried new ideas. Though the result could have been controversial. He had the intent, will and the energy.

    But unfortunately, we saw arrogant ministers double speak on the TV shows. Arbitrary actions taken. I believe recently the BJP Govt. has decided to investigate the media “first” in the porngate case. Does it remind you something ?

    Only thing more they wanted to change, more congress-like they became.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    I think you should see the big picture. That the Vajpayee government was amongst our best.

    He left behind no dunasty to claim the gaddi. He was fair to the opposition.

    he even was chivalrous enough to spare a widow and two children the embaressment of ot the kickbacks their father had taken in a gun deal.

    Overall amongst the brightest period of Indian history

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ” Spare a widow…”

    You love building castles !

    Desist from “lazy writing”.

    ( If you are a writer, then you know exactly what it means)

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am just telling u the honest truth here. One big big guy in the NDA government who could have opened the Bofors files said this to me personally. That there were explcit instrucitons from Vajpayee to let that chapter be closed. Forever. As Rajiv was dead.

    Even Sonia would call Vajpayee up and thank indirectly.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Fernades was instructed specifically not to touch the file by Vajpayee.

    And India was not Vajpayee’s personal fiefdom that he would pardon bofor scandal culprits and yet raise bofor scandal during elections.

    Anonymous Reply:

    That was his greatest weakness and strenght. He may have gone beyond law NOT to probe bofors. But the gentlemanly, chivalrous Vajpayee… had his own values, which the UPA lacks.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You are crediting him as much that he himself might have never done to himself.

    May be you need to take a personal pilgrimage to his residence and deliver this personal interpretation of his greatness that was never there.

    Does it make you ardent supporter of BJP?

    Nah !

    You are too neutral for that !

    Ain’t you ?

    Anonymous Reply:

    All BJP supporters ‘fancy’ themselves as neutral.

    Anonymous Reply:

    1) “That the Vajpayee government was amongst our best”.
    2) “Overall amongst the brightest period of Indian history”

    In that case, would you care to give reason(s) as to why it was not able to come back to power in 2004?

    2) “Overall amongst the brightest period of Indian history”
    Yes, we all remember India Shining ‘Brightest’ campaign.

    I hope you will stay a writer of fiction – unlimited licence is available.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar

    Well My publisher has asked me to– and I hoenstly dont have the time– to meet honchos at the word book fair– which wound up today. I think I would be tempted to correct the aberratrions in history written by the Congress regimes– one day.

    Anonymous Reply:

    What a dodger? Maan gaye ‘ustaad’, back to your tricks.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well because I am a bit drunk today… let me tell you… u cant make a living off writing unless u r in journalism.

    Technically I wrote a bestseller under some other name. 11032 copies sold. net royalty 80000 rupees over 4 years. Some fan mail and emails still coming in…

    Bestseller… but no cash. So I just smile… and know that I got to earn my living from my proifession…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Still dodging the main issues. I will wait for the answer whenever you are sober.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Technically I wrote a bestseller under some other name.”

    I am having problem understanding the above statement. There are two situations -

    1) You wrote for somebody else. That means even though the author was commissioned, you actually wrote the book.

    2) You wrote a book under a pseudo name.

    But when you say “technically you wrote under some other name”, it’s creating confusion.

    So which of the above situations correct ?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Doublespeak and double standards have been the ‘hallmarks’ of the RSS and the BJP. One does not have to go far. This blog has enough members/supporters, who keep practising precisely these.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This throws more light (I suppose most of you must have read it)

    For men of honour
    Karan Thapar

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/KaranThapar/For-men-of-honour/Article1-806841.aspx

    Excerpt

    In 1991, after Rajiv Gandhi’s assassination, I contacted Vajpayee to ask if he would speak about the departed leader. I’ll never forget what followed.

    Vajpayee invited me to his home for a chat. Sitting in his garden he said he wanted to explain something before he answered my request. “When Rajiv Gandhi was prime minister,” he began, “he somehow found out I had a kidney problem and needed treatment abroad. One day he called me to his office and said he was going to include me in India’s delegation to the UN and hoped I would use the opportunity to get the treatment I needed. I went to New York and that’s one reason I’m alive today.”

    This wasn’t what I expected to hear. Vajpyaee was well aware of that. “So do you see my problem, Karan?” he asked. “Today I’m in the Opposition and people expect me to speak like an opponent. But I can’t. I only want to talk about what he did for me. If that’s okay with you, I’ll do it. If not, I have nothing to say.”

    Vajpayee’s comments were the high point of the anecdotal obituary of Rajiv Gandhi I helped put together. It’s part of the records of Eyewitness (June 1991), the video magazine for which it was recorded.

    If you recall that five years earlier Vajpayee had lost his own seat in the wave that swept Rajiv Gandhi to power and was among his strongest critics after Bofors, this desire to praise him was remarkable. In fact, as remarkable as Rajiv’s own thoughtfulness and generosity.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Thanks vm for posting this. I love this blog.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Exactlu Manohar,
    Bajpai is to be seen as a human and as a politician. his declaration at shaheed minar in pakistan about pakistan being an entity, was the call of a statesman. I wish, he had more time at his disposal at helm of affairs to give something substantial to nation. i am a fan of Rajeev Gandhi too, but for his lapse in anger, after Indira Gandhi’s murder, After all, he was a human being too and commited blunder, which a man of higher caliber would have avoided. I was thinking about similarity in pronounciation of bajpai with Bhajpai.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj

    That is the way it should be and is so out there. Here on this blog it is not so. I am absolutely sure the above must have surely caused a heartburn at least to one person here. How can an object of hate ever do anything noble and good? Once labeled – it sticks for all situations and for life.

    AshishC Reply:

    Gentlemen; men of breeding both. Sadly absent today.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    I was wondering as to why you did not add your perspective to this particular debate?

    AshishC Reply:

    I participate in fits and starts… also, work mostly through Disqus, where I follow some people and sometimes miss out on some topics.

  • Ravi

    Vijay Kumar

    I posted this in response to your desire to convert me and with a desire to contribute to you modelling a character in your next extremely successful fiction. It got lost, hence re-post.
    +++++++
    Keep up your fantasies.

    Just in case you harbour any misconceptions.

    If, in the middle of a Delhi May day, I was knocked unconscious by a Blue Bus at the Ajmeri Gate bus-stop and merely a gulp of water was separating me from sure death. I would choose death over accepting that last gulp of water from you.

    Ashish and I are positioned – equidistant – on either side of the fulcrum where the political continuum balances, even then I rather he kicked me to death than you offer me a glass of sweet शबील on the शहीदी गुरपुरब Day.

    I hope that clarifies the situation and adds more material to your fictional novel.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    I have no illusions for myself as I realise I will not be able to replace Leander Paes…

    Today as I type this– three college friends along with their wives/girls are reading this. One of them, Micky is a real son of a ***** who was chasing the same girl at the DTC bustop; the other Anupam… is a double son of a ***** who knocked my nose in a friendly boxing match in 3rd yr.

    But I am serving absolut vodka and corn salad to them…

    But with you the divide is about ideology… and the gap will never get over…. :)

    But the sad fact is I sometimes wonder why you went into the wrong track of surreptitiosly supporting jehadi ideologies and trying to demolish India and HIndus from inside.

    Well now I raising my glass high… and pray I can change your thinking one day…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Vijay Kumar

    Raise your glass for re-emergence of the Ram Setu Bridge above sea level. For that will definitely happen sooner than you will be able to convert me.

    My sympathies are with your friends I don’t give an Absolut toss about what you think.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    You should have raise dyour glass when Aryabhatta predicted that earth was round in 490 BC and not what azhar mehmood tlod you that it was a carpet.

    You should have raised your glass for susruta and patanjali and not bowed your head to osama who wantred to destroy creation :)

    Ravi Bhai… I am sure I am going to make you UN-fundoo one day and report the reulst to MI5. RAW. CIA and MOSSAD who are fighting terror.

    Ravi Reply:

    As I said I do not give an Absolut toss about imaginary stuff that you pick-up from Nagpur pamphlets.

    I sooner say that Indian thinkers were centuries ahead at addressing more important questions such as:

    Who am I?

    Where have I come from?

    What is the meaning of life?

    Is there God, if so where is he from and what is his role in the universe.

    Answers to these questions have stood the test of time and make me proud of being Indian.

    I will leave the Nagpur Narangi Ras for you to mix with your Absolut nonsense, that you get off on.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    My grandad had to leave Sialkot leaving back 40 acres of land and a position in the govenrment becasue when Jinnah’s murderous mobs asked him to leave his faith to retain the prievleges he chose to dump the prieveleges and come to Delhi with a pital lota and a small bag

    I am not religious by nature and pursue a career in science choosing the truth of nature. But I live to blast anybod who has a hidden agenda which destroys society from inside.

    Every time a snake is born, a Vijay Kumar always rises to stamp him out under his foot.

    I think you should remember that.

    Ravi Reply:

    What can I say with such pedigree and sacrifices. You are the top dog.

    I neither ever had granddad, nor we ever had any land.

    We crawled out of Sialkot like snakes, dodging upright patriotic citizens like you.

    You have successfully converted me.

    Shiva Ji and Ranjit Singh were the greatest Generals world has ever produced.

    Mera bharat mahan.

    You win.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thanks I knew I could convert you millimetre by millimetre. I hope you now acknowledge that Shivaji and Ranjit Singh were much much much greater than your heroes like Yahya, Zia and Osama…

    Ravi Reply:

    They were the greatest, pity that out of 3000 years of History we can only praise these two.

    Mera Bharat Mahan aur sabse changa. Mein Nanga meri man bhi nangi

    Anonymous Reply:

    I cn give a list of 1000 including rana pratap and Jagjit singh arora. But then I hooe u can see beyond osma and Mullah Omar

    Ravi Reply:

    Keep listing, one day you would keel over.

    engrich Reply:

    Shivaji ke sar par tilak paer se laga gaya tha because he was backward.that too after robbing all his wealth.

    engrich Reply:

    u have to leave the place because of rss poison.i doubt wht u are saying but this choice was not given to hindus even during muslim rule.
    moreover ur father must have got good compesation and better job.

    engrich Reply:

    shakhaon mein chupke chupke zhoot phailatrn hain.bachchon ko zahreela naag banate hain.public mein awnser ke bajai ,character assination karte hain.

    Ravi Reply:

    Bilukl darust

    Anonymous Reply:

    Nurjehan and jehangir writing the taj mahal of prose…

  • Dr Mishra

    Genetics and Dr Pankaj”””””””””””””

    Excellent Sir. In March 2003 an explosive article came out in Am J Hum Genetics. In a survey of MEN’s y chromosome from Caspian sea to the Pacific in Eurasia, one genetic pattern was found repeatedly.
    Complex calculations traced the origin of that gene to an alpha male who lived 1000 years ago ?. One in 200 men worldwide are belived now to be a member of that same family.
    That man is believed to have been none other than our very own marauder and ?rapist GENGHIS KHAN. Fancy that

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    his successors expanded his kingdom to 27 MILLION SQUARE KILOMETERS- one fifth the land mass of the earth, the largest empire the world has ever known
    Christian Europe trembled to the core when his horsemen rampaged for 4 months through its eastern fringes

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Yes, Mishraji, I was referring to that article only.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    It is possible that the particular gene existed before Genghiz and he was only a carrier. So there is a possibility that the 15000 rapes Genghis commited were only smoke without fire.. (kids)

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Engrich;
    Who is a Hindu? This question is bothering you since a long while. let me try to answer this.
    Anybody, who does not object to be called a Hindu, is a Hindu. Any body objecting to be called a hindu, is non Hindu. As simple as that. Now for you, would you object to be called as a Hindu? Answer is with you only.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    blew me away, Pankaj, your best post ever. Like I used to say sometimes – who is an Indian- if you love India, then you are an Indian.

    That makes Sonia ? and Mark Tully Indians, in my book anyway

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    mishra jee believe me i love india more than u .but swabhiman is zoinists tactics or game to ignite enternal wars.it is their old tactics.
    hitler too used the same language.this also create division.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    engrich,

    if we “believe” youabout your “love” for India, will you leave us alone?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr.Mishra, Dr.Pankaj,

    I would say Mark Tully is an Indian, because he loves India. He has not shown any inclination, despite being a British gora, of lording over the natives.

    As for Sonia Gandhi’s “Indianness” I would rather wait for what the SC says on the petition on her “Indianness”.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Pankaj

    My Saffron, green and white salute to you

    and absolut vodka too !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Huh! That’s incredible !

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Sanjay,
    I am surprised that you could read between the lines( though wrongly, bad handwriting) and not only that you could make out that this ” dialogue” is Shatrusque in tone and tenor? Fantastic. A very simple answer to a loaded question, who is a Hindu?
    One thing more, when I try to rewrite some thing in the box, where I have already written something and posted, I can not. Yesterday, whole day, you had only one line, : Huh, that is incredible: and today I could read an expanded letter. let me know thr trick, some time there are boxes where I can read, edited …hours back. is there a privilagd class of people here as well?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj

    When you are logged in to the blog, is there no link (Edit) on the LHS of the Reply link in the messages you have posted?

    If you are using Disqus dashboard, at the right hand bottom corner of panel of your own message, the second icon ( [ / ] ) is for editing.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Thanks Manohar;
    Really speaking, I am always in great hurry to write as lot of pending work makes me feel guilty, but you know, addicts must have their fix from time to time and this blog is highly addictive.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I come to blog to be entertained, search for truth and to learn. Pankaj sirji tusi chhupey rustam nikley. Bhaut changa boley

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    pankajee please clarify hidu is nationality or religion.world hindu is no where used in ur holy scripture.
    moreover if muslim call himdelf hindu can he do it.my main enquiry was hinduism not hindu.savarkar was creator of hindu,he says that follower of foreign religion are non hindu.though it is established fact that vedas and brhmns came from ouside.can brhmns be called hindu.pls awnser and what is hinduism.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Sorry Engrich, could not make head or tail, what you are saying?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    my questian is clear,

    you say that i can call myself hindu,but as per rss ideology only the followers of local religions are hindus.muslims and christians and jews cannot call themselve hindu.so what is right,what u say or what rss says.u say that hindu is nationality
    anybody can call himself hindu.vedas and brhmns also came from outside so they should also not call themselve as hindu.

    2.what is hinduism.

    i hope it is more clear now thanks for awnsering.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Do not bother what the RSS says. They are not the authority to decide- thank God.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,

    Great reply. Will definitely use this whenever I get a chance. Thanks.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj ji,

    engrich is not only a non-Hindu, he is a Hindu hater.

    Haven’t you ’seen’ his posts (I know nobody reads them) from dalit.org?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    India’s strict visa regulations hamper entry of skilled foreigners

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-strict-visa-regulations-hamper-entry-of-skilled-foreigners/articleshow/12132685.cms

    Alexandra Patargia is a 26-year-old civil engineer from Greece. After an engineering degree from Athens, she completed her master’s degree in development administration and planning from London and is now keen on finding a job in India.

    “I have been following the India growth story for the past couple of years. My qualifications in civil engineering and development should find a very good fit in India, I feel. Besides, India is on a growth path while European countries such as ours are not doing very well,” she says. However, her job search in India has so far not yielded results.

    ———

    Read on.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx Manohar… interstring reading. We should open the visa regulations. As it is we are beseeched by a few lakhs of Bangladeshis each year, a few thousand goras will only add to the color and our export capacity.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Manohsr,
    how many civil engineers in India with 2 years work ex command a 12.5lakhs annual package?
    Of course, Vijay might decide to take her in – he pays his employees handsomely.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ashish

    Well it is good day for civil engineers right now with the construction boom in the NCR. I have not been able to get reasonable 2 yrs experienced engineers for less than 60000 a month. And even draftsmen who know CAD dont come for less than30000 a month.

    I am sure a Greek babe can easily get more than a lakh amonth…in comapnies bigger than my small setup.

    Builders who dont spend time on blogs — like I do — pay their 2 yr old sales force packages of 13-14 akhs an year…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Converting souls requires sacrifices 40 acres there and a few lakhs here, you are the Master in that.

    Mahan Shiva Ji ki Jai, Mahraja Ranjit Singh Ji ki Jai.

    Mera Bharat Mahan

    AshishC Reply:

    Luckily, the IT industry does not pay that well…

    Anonymous Reply:

    ab kyaa karen, jahaan Vijay ne chhokri (and a ‘phoren’ one at that) dekhi, …………… ;-)

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    Please try to rise above plebians. I take pride in interacting with you. minor irritants, you should ignore. I know, you have been abused and wronged. Can you rise above it?

    Anonymous Reply:

    This was in jest. No offence meant. Didn’t you notice smiley at the end? I have no grudge against Vijay. He has been very civilised in debates with me (as I am with him) and has not abused me. You know who the abusers (two of them actually) are.

    Anonymous Reply:

    bilkul… dil hil gaya

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    AshishC;
    Do not be paronoid. Look at bigger picture. If she gives some thing to Organization/ Company, great, other wise India also prints pink slips.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Paranoid?
    I do not employ civil engineers.

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Manohar;
    if India really want to join free world and Global order, it must allow, qualified foreigners to join labour market.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    There is a very large number of foreigners working in India at the higher end of the spectrum. We have put reasonable restrictions just like other countries have. We cannot open up our lower end job market for foreigners – there would be a flood from third world countries.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Yes, no desire to remove restrictions on lower end of Spectrum. We have our own abundant supply for that.

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————-
    ~~~ A FEW GOOD SIKH JOKES WITH A SARDAR HANGING ON MY HEAD ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————

    Even as I type my last posting of the night, I have one mR Juneja, my class mate and madcap Sardar (called Dravid as he knows Tamil as he had 7 yrs of schooling in Tamil nadu) watching every word i write. The small party at my house is about to dissolve and all these guys think I have gone mad that I spend so much time on this bloody blog while they cram in the booze and the food.

    I have written how Sardars rose above the Punjab problem . Now let this posting be a a dedication to the actual humour of Sikhs. And these are real life incidents….

    a) My trip to Tokyo flying over bangkok : My Sikh co- passenger muttering, ” jad plane Bagnkok te uppar jaanda hai… main kachche te vag jaanda hoon….!!!!! :)

    Only a punjabi can actually translate the actual words. However for purposes of berevity, I translate a part, ” Whenever my plane goes over bangkok…. I leak .. :) in my undies….”

    b) My trip to Ireland: My Sikh host showed me around and then made it a point to show me the division between Protestant and Catholic areas. Then commented grinning ear to ear, ” Divide and rule ji divide and rule… Doctor apni dawa khaa gaya hai …”

    Both these comments made me laugh and laugh !

    But the funniest three are too ‘A; to be related at this site…

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Let us know when you have posted them

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Hope I can catch you before you sleep. Khushwant described Bang- ****, as the capital of Thigh-land, some 40 years back. With apologies to Thais.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I guess 40 saal baad Sikh humour remains what Khushwant Singh made it once !

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay, pl u not tangle with Ravi, pointless. He is hurt, let him heal. He just smarmed in “indians only did philosophy, not science” Ignore him.

    Now reg Teesta, I challenged Gopi and now ask ramghulam “If Teesta is REALLY guilty how come might of Modi and SIT has not jailed her.
    I like thos saboot, rule of law. Pl ram or gopi answer

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ok sir done.

    But let me relate a true story demolsihign the jibe Ravi made on Indians not being good faujis

    JS Arora’s car had an accident in delhi. As you know in Delhi people in Delhi end up infisticuffs whenever their vehicle kisses that of somebody else.

    In Arora’s case the errant driver went out in anger, When he saw JS Arora… he jsut touched his feet and apologised..

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Vijay;
    I had narrated this long time back. As this happened, very near, where I used to live.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx pankaj

    I know u did narrate the incident. I have been using this now to illustrate that let us not draw the faujis into scams for nothing

    Ravi Reply:

    Did I make that jibe. Asbsolutly not

    But I did say Shiva Ji is Mahan and Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a great general.

    Mera Bharat Mahan.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dr Sharma
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/fashion/weddings/chandana-kanithi-siva-korukonda-vows.html?ref=weddings

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I couldn’t quite understand what was your purpose in posting the above link.
    If you talk about “Cultural Inertia” , islam will give run for its money to any religion. And I abhor it.YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.
    In Uk Muslim butchers proudly proclaim THE ANIMAL HAS NOT BEEN STUNNED.Standing up for cultural preservation to some IDIOCY AND HYPOCRICY TO ME

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    CHINGULATE,

    why are you getting piqued and peeved?

    when all others were discussing the congress party, you wrote some non-sense about the Britishers going to Congo!

    Why then object to others doing the same?

    “YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT”.

    If you have two cakes, you can have one after eating one.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    beautiful article bINOY, the reality of NRI s finding spouses. And a fairy tale ending, a culture going back to ? 3000 BC
    ‘ The ceremony, led by Kalyan Chakravarthy, a Hindu priest, was conducted in Telugu and Sanskrit on a wedding stage hung with garlands and balls of flowers’

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Binoy; What you are saying here is my family story. Only difference is that my Son is focused like Arjun ki Aankh for Nobel, and daughter gets irritated, whenever I talk about marriage.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    well Nobel is worth not marrying! All the best and prayers!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,

    My best wishes are with your son.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Binoy,

    Sweat story.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Yes Sir;
    It is an odd time in North Ameica to write on a blog. But here I am. Can not go to any other papers, Indian or Ameican. This blog has caught my fancy. I will apeal to every protagonist and Antagonists, you do not know, where world is heading. It is human and Future, every Religion and Nationality included. Think big, act big, other wise your Karmas will catch you and people like R.. nd Engrich will have no future. Not in anger, but with concern. you people have no idea, I know your CAUSE 10 TIMES BETTER THAN WHAT YOU THINK. With best wishes.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Thanks but no thanks

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    All my posts are getting deleted after 15 minutes. Anyone facing the same issue?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Before going to bed I will try to give answer to our friend Engrich. Not sure whether it will help.

    If you believe in Ram you are a Hindu
    If you believe in Krishna you are a Hindu
    If you believe in Shiva you are a Hindu
    If ou believe in Guru Nanak you are a Hindu
    If you believe in Durga mata you are a Hindu
    If you believe in hanuman you are Hindu.
    If you believe in any god you want to believe you are a Hindu

    If you go to a temple you are a hindu
    If you pray daily you are a hindu
    If you pray occasionally you are a Hindu

    If you do not believe in all those gods you are a hindu
    If you do not go to a temple you are a Hindu
    If you do not pray you are Hindu.

    In short there are no compulsions in Hinduism. Whatever you do you are still a Hindu.

    A very simple example.
    My brother daily prays and visit temples regularly – he is a hindu.
    I very rarely go to a temple and hardly pray – I am also a Hindu.

    Good night gentlemen.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Mohan;
    You are gifted.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is the reason, I am hindu and people like Ravi, Manohar and Enrich are not.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    it means hinduism is a club not religion.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dhawan pleaded with me to leave R.avi alone..
    when I did not relent, my posts got deleted…
    Manohar posts garbage of post to cover stink of R.avi’s closure..
    and true to his nature Shan chickened out…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Clunky Lad ! You definitely have problem with passage reading and comprehension. I guess you need to refer the http://www.dictionary.com for the meaning of “plead” and then “re-read” our interaction.

    This is how some people make many more mistakes to cover one.

    You are definitely one of them.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You appear out of nowhere to defend Ravi..clunky old ****. You should visit honesty.com and learn some basic ethics.
    You are basically proving a typical congressi who will stoop to any level to cover his and his team’s lies.

    Now give up this deception and start using your original ID.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Be honest to yourself.

    Hit Ravi or anybody as hard possible if he commits a mistake. But don’t invent one just to get at somebody.

    That holds true for your personal and professional lives as well.

    Move on. Participate in the exciting stuff people are discussing about. Don’t stay stuck up with what you did few days back. It’s a new blog post. Another opportunity to debate.

    Just move on.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I’ll participate in exciting stuff provided you stop being Nanny of R.avi. He is a grown man/woman who can speak for himself.
    He did imply what he wanted to but as always was rescued by congressis.

    Just an advise for you old man, don’t try to patronize me because you yourself don’t behave your age.

    Stop playing R.avi’s Nanny and moved on. Let Ravi deal with me directly.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “I’ll participate in exciting stuff provided you stop being Nanny of R.avi….”

    Clunky lad ! Everyday you give a new reason why you should best be known as clunky !

    Participate in the debate for the love of the subject, not for the participants.

    Looks like I really have to request Gopi to give you some quote from Mahabharat and Gita to help you understand the difference.

    @ Gopi

    Is there any appropriate quote in Mahabharat / Gita to help people understand the importance of the subject / context rather than the participants ?

    Anonymous Reply:

    How about Romila Thapar’s fake history?

    Anonymous Reply:

    You have Thapar’s some work to justify the above assertion ?

    We would love if you share your wisdom on this public forum.

    Ravi Reply:

    To him everything that does not fit in with his world view is FAKE.

    Anonymous Reply:

    My world view doesn’t have place for fakes like you.

    Ravi Reply:

    Just as well

    Anonymous Reply:

    World view?

    Only if there was a view in the first place – instead there is only abuse and label fabrication.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You again proved that how clunky you are. Who are you? Ravi’s mom?

    I don’t need lessons from Mahabharata or Quran.

    You should first learn some honesty.

    As for Manohar, he is just a chamcha..

    Anonymous Reply:

    Bad habits die hard. In this case not possible to give up, otherwise no raison d’etre.

    Being honest with oneself – now that is a very very tall order for the likes of him.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad Sir,

    you are digressing, ducking from answering our charges. How can a series of posts be deleted?

    Is there censorship here? Or is Kapil Sibal the presiding deity of Vinod Sharma’s blog?

    Can you tell us which other blog you have earlier participated in, and since when?

    Can you also give us a hint as to what happened to Prabhat and Prahlad?

    Also, will you tell us how long you will last here?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    very plainly, rather bluntly too, you have hit the nail on the head.

    This charade, fake identity business, subterfuge, duplicity must end. The sooner the better.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    several of my posts got “subjected to moderation”, never to appear again, whenever they were meant to hit the fake Ravi. On a single day in the last blog, 15 of my posts got deleted!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Viju
    Regarding your question on history/historians especially within an Indian context –

    We did not have a tradition of recording historical details in the past mainly because of our ancestors’ essential nature about what is important is not current life, but the knowledge beyond that. In Europe and other parts of the world, the individual life has always been singular one-act drama in the vast dark stage of eternity, those who achieved something of note wanted to leave a record of it. In India which saw the individual soul through life and attainment of nirvana, the ” maya” of material existence was not worth recording, if it was incidental to the overall moral progression.

    There is also a “poetry” instead of a “pose” dimension, even if something was worth recording. Ancient Indians believed poets are more valuable and they could articulate anything, and if they did not, it was not worth articulating it. Kalahana, author of Raja Tarangini, a 12th century history of kings of Kashmir, began his book by saying ” who but a poet can bring back the past in sweet composition, and what can make it intelligible if his art cannot”. RC Majumdar, the greatest Indian historian always wondered and tried to inquire why the ancient Indians who excelled in arts, literature, sculpture etc never bothered about writing records of the time.

    The first written history of India is currently recorded as written by Alberunni in the 11th century, when he was “embedded” with Gazavi’s invasion.

    Centuries alter, in 1818, James Mill from Scotland will write a history of India at the “request” of East India Co/and the empire. James Mill “poopooed” India, he said there is not much history in pagan India, and he could write the history in few months without a need to visit India. He wrote “The history of India” without setting foot in India. The book was full of attacks on India, Hindu customs, backward culture, ignorance, you name it. That book formed the pillar of many policies and actions of East India co and later the colonioing by British govt.

    Unlike in US where historians like David McCullough will write a whole book about a day in the life of John Adams or Truman, we did not have historians documenting the lives of our leaders, their interactions etc during the independence movement. Yes, speeches, discussions etc were documented, but no insight into the deeper anguish, the dealings with common people….

    VP Menon (yes, a fellow Malayali) , the right hand of Saradr Patel in the “taekover” and integration of princely states, will later write about the details and personalities of the integration challenges and process. Nehru did not like VP Menon, he tolerated him, and would not give him a governorship or a similar position after the princely state integration because of his animosity (may be because of the closeness of Menon with Sardar Patel).

    VP Menon wrote two historical books on the integration of the princely states and the departure of British; “The Story of Integration of Indian States” and “The Transfer of Power in India’.

    Menon, who was a key player in forming the modern India, does not have any road named after him, nor any buildings, nor anything else. I believe a VP Menon environmental (??) award has been instituted recently.

    More on the sorry status of the post independence historians, and attempts to write/rewrite history with a “secular”., “diverse”, “multicultural’ etc orientation later.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Most of the Indian history is written by non Indians that is why a doubt persists on
    the authenticity of their version.
    A nice summarized lesson on Indian History. Thanks.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ur history is verbally told in shakhas of rss,full of lies and boasting.without any proof.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    “Most of the Indian history is written by non Indians that is why a doubt persists on the authenticity of their version”.

    Not necessarily. On the contrary one may get an unbiased narrative – as these “non-Indians’ may not have any axe to grind. In short, no ’sarkaar’ sponsored story telling.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    The first written history of India is currently recorded as written by Alberunni in the 11th century, when he was “embedded” with Gazavi’s invasion

    ghazni looted once recorded in history.peshwas of poona,whenever in need of mmoney always looted temple of shankaracharya,why it is not repeated again and again.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    gr8 read . let me absorb this today

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Really informative post. Got a new dimension in my mental world, I hope we do keep recording all our histroy including the current with whatever pices of info we get.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    ravi saheb up election,

    Koiee jeete koiee haare is se kya lena mujhe

    Bus mujhe is ki khushi hai aaj badal chhaT gaya

    HathiyoN ke saath unki roonumayee ho gayee

    Bahan Ji ki moorti se aaj paradah haT gaya

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Is this a lover letter to R.avi? Looks like R.avi have lot of Ashiqs on this blog..Dhawan being the new one in old bottle.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    bad luck for u.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    and good f**k for you.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Shenoy

    There was a time you were able to make a point or two, Even known to write a balad or two. Your funny pictures are a legend in their own tiffin.

    You have reduced your-self to gali giloj of the tanga stand variety.

    SHAME ON YOU

    Anonymous Reply:

    SHAME ON FAKE RAVI-ENGRICH COUPLE TOO.
    —————————————————————-
    May I also say that there never was a time you made any point except the “5000 dalit women raped daily in India by caste Hindus”.

    Your rising to ‘defend’ engrich bhai is clearly a pointer.

    Ravi Reply:

    Pathetic in raag bhairavi

    Anonymous Reply:

    This response suffers from over use and staleness.

    think of something else or ask your congressi troll buddy to supply you with appropriate abuse.

    Ravi Reply:

    I ceased to abuse you.

    You are not worth it.

    I am going to ignore you as many others do

    Anonymous Reply:

    A good decision.

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is natural that things to come to this stage – the Nadir. All we have to wait to hear for waah, waahs or a pin drop silence.

    Nothing to be surprised at though – frustration does strange things to people. We should expect more such gutter language.

  • Anonymous

    Leaving for Malaysia for a short business trip. Not sure whether I will be able to visit this
    great blog regularly. Before leaving a joke for today.
    ———————————————————–

    A young girl asked her mother ‘ pyaar ho jaata hai ya karna parta hai ‘
    Mother ‘ if a boy is good looking and is riding a motor cycle then pyaar ho jaata hai
    and if the boy is not very good looking and is driving a Mercedes than pyaar karna parta hai ‘

    See you guys.’

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Which part of Malaysia? KL only or will you have time to drive around? It is a beautiful country- you will enjoy the greenery

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Has Vinod Sharma seen the writing on the wall for 2014?

    We saw a totally different Vinod Sharma on CNN-IBN yesterday.

    We saw him cracking jokes with fellow panelists, unlike other times when he used to have a wide grin in his face fixed, even when the subject was Bhanwari Devi’s rape.

    Has he seen the end of the Sonia-Rahul-Digvinash (mis)rule, two years ahead?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A massive operation in full swing.
    ———————————————-

    UP assembly elections 2012: After 200 meetings, Congress now rallies to save Rahul Gandhi

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/up-assembly-elections-2012-after-200-meetings-congress-now-rallies-to-save-rahul-gandhi/articleshow/12140052.cms

    Excerpt

    The party was, however, unequivocal in attempting to insulate its star campaigner from any adverse fallout, with exit polls pointing to a fourth position for the Congress, behind BJP. “He ( Rahul Gandhi) was our chief campaigner. I will take responsibility for any shortcoming on the part of the organisation,” said senior leader Digvijaya Singh.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Did not Nero play the fiddle as Rome burnt?
    Happens… the disconnect between the ruler and the ruled.. always.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    What is the reference to the context?

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    I forgot.. sounds terrible, does it not?
    It probably was in response to Pankaj’s post- but, can’t trace it.

    [Reply]

    pankaj#1 Reply:

    Ashish,
    You are right. your answer look like you are addressing the situation/ scene, shown in Shatranj ke khiladi” where english fauz…

    AshishC Reply:

    Thanks, Pankaj. Now I remember. I did respond to your post but somehow Disqus shoved it off to be on its own.

  • Anonymous

    Soon, only four-six VIPs may be exempted from airport security checks

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/soon-only-foursix-vips-may-be-exempted-from-airport-security-checks/920208/0

    Following strong objections from the US, the Civil Aviation Ministry is considering a move to reduce the list of dignitaries who are exempted from security checks at airports, from the existing 33 categories to only four or six categories, which may include the President, Vice-President, Prime Minister, Speaker and Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama.

    ———

    Read on. High time this was implemented. However, politicians cutting across party lines are sure going to create a ruckus.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    PIL as hit job

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pil-as-hit-job/920070/

    A PIL, which suggested that Chief Justice of India S.H. Kapadia had a conflict of interest in the Vodafone tax judgment, has been swiftly shot down by the Supreme Court. The petitioner, advocate M.L. Sharma, was admonished for “wasting the court’s time” and fined Rs 50,000 for his attempt to “destroy reputations and demolish institutions”.

    —————-

    Read on. It seems every other PIL is by this M L Sharma.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    No one is respoding esp Gopi and Sanjay. If TEESTA is gulty how come big might of MODI& SIT have not nailed her
    anyone else can also explain, not ravi or shan

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I have already replied to your poser.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I havn’t really followed her. I would like her to be clean. But I have known few fiesty women who have had resorted to few unconventional means while trying to reach their goals.

    She comes out to be very aggressive like kejriwal. But I guess people who fight against the system tend to become extra aggressive. Because that very aggressiveness helps them survive.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    I hope you have the same regard for Kiran Bedi who got us prison reforms, became a role model fpr women, and now wants to get the Lok Pal to fight the corrupt, the evil. the Swiss bank account holders, the dalals who destroy India…

    Would you not like to say 3 cheers for the brave Kiran who is being hounded by Digvinash Singh, who wants us to beleive that 26/11 was a RSS ki saazish?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Raghavan’s report, as GulamJohn mentioned, does talk about Teesta’s witness intimidation etc. I do not know if SIT has the power to prosecute her.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ balwinder

    I think they are not articulate enough to take on Teesta in English.

    Ours is a country which is scared of english speaking women who may tell lies possible, but will have males swooning as long as they talk politically correct in English.

    Arundhati Roy made fun of the dead in 26/11 and holds processions with terrorist Gilani. Everyone will remain silent.

    Kani Mozhi wants freedom from her 1000 crore crime by saying Maa behen aur biwi–

    At a larger level section 498 and domestic violence prevention laws are being blatantly misused by urban women to lodge false complaints against men everyday in India– but nobody has the guts to speak up.

    Reason: We as a nation were unfair to women. In our desire to be fair, we have let a few Teestas and Arundhatis get away with gross lies.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    UP would go to Mulayam – whether we like it or not.

    The stock market has a better sense of ground realities than most psephologists. With results less than a day away, the shares of Reliance Power and Infra moved up over 5 percent and the shares of JayPee Assoc fell by a similar margin.

    The broader market dropped by 1.5% to see the rest in perspective.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Second BrahMos regiment operational along border

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Second-BrahMos-regiment-operational-along-border/articleshow/12141078.cms

    NEW DELHI : Providing it a swift strike capability along the border with Pakistan, the Army on Sunday inducted its second BrahMos supersonic cruise missile regiment in the western sector.

    It also successfully conducted a test of the 290-km range missile to validate the unit’s operationalization.

    =============

    Read on.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shenoy,
    I have always suspected HT plant on this blog who deletes the posts critical to Sharma and his gang.
    Many of my posts were deleted. I have also observed that Dhawan’s post get edited even without moderation.
    Ravi has gone back and edited many posts where he explained his support for Islamic terror.
    This blog is now working just like UPA govt..muzzling all the dissent.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The new blog is on … letz meet there.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I was just replying to post on this blog.

    [Reply]

  • pankaj#1

    Thaks Manohar,
    I read about Nana long back and could not recall what happened to him, but you mentioned Nepal, and that is what I remembered . So sad that Natives, lost somewhere vis a vis foreigners, in this case Britishers. Wish, Indians come up as victors and not losers.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    you are correct, he is so obsessed with muslim reservation than muslims themselves

    [Reply]

  • Guest

    The columnist’s candour about her profession is endearing. Also more honest than some of the sanctimonious types one sees every evening.

    [Reply]

  • K.N.Gupta

    Interesting events

    [Reply]

  • Chandran Avinjikat

    It makes a good reading.There were a few surprises to me in it. I was aware about some space selling in one ‘reputed’ national daily, but did not realise that this is now a malaise of our democracy. Thanks Sujata.

    [Reply]

  • anonymous

    the fact that even a taxi driver who is the “neo or new middle class” would vote for modi should be a signal to all. The buzz is “if he could make Gujaratis affluent he could do it for us too”. I hope the BJP understands this and projects Modi for PM. This is their only chance of getting beyond 200 seats.

    [Reply]

  • Deep

    Don’t worry about a divided India. We are already divided. The question is do you want a corrupt, illiterate,poor divided India or a prosperous educated divided India?

    [Reply]

  • Rajeev

    This is absurd to beat the drum for secularism always. It is nonsense. COngress is a rank communal party.

    BJP is thousand times secular than communal congress. Congress divided this country based on religion. Kashmir is an issue because of COngress. Northeast is an issue because of COngress. Assam is an issue because of Congress. Kerala is the hotbed for anti-nationals because of Congress. MIM is the friend of Congress. Muslim league is a partner of power with Congress.

    Crush this communal Congress. India will be better placed. Kashmir, Assam, Northeast, Kerala and all the separatism problems will be resolved.

    Get rid of Italian mafia and rank rapists. God bless Sukanyas.

    BJP is for development. BJP is for the nationalism. BJP is for welfare of all. BJP does not talk about caste. BJP does not talk about only religion. Love your nation, be a nationalist, you will automatically love BJP.

    ***** I am a secular and I vote for Modi. ******

    [Reply]

    Vikas Lakhanpal Reply:

    What a rely, I know many muslim who are patriotic will vote for Namo.Only traitors will vote for UPA and congress.

    [Reply]

    DAS Reply:

    yes only benxxxcxh0d & maxxxcxh0d will vote for Congress and UPA.

    [Reply]

    anthony Reply:

    ur language tells your class forget about your vote ….learn to be a human being first.

    corrupt congress party Reply:

    what about your class ,you fkg converted christian ,when you can convert from one religion ,then you can also convert from one country ,who needs your vote or your opinion ,you converted racists,you are telling hindus our class ,when living in a hindu land you worship a foreign god,

    Sam Reply:

    I want to vote for Mr.Modi as I like the things he has done for Gujarat.

    I have not been to Gujarat since the riots took place as I am scared of the possibilities that can arise being a muslim.

    The election of 2014 will be really interesting as Mr.Rahul is not as popular as Mr.Modi especially amongst the neo-middle class.

    Most Muslims are not sure whether to vote for a party accused of corruption or the one accused of large scale riots.

    Unfortunately, though I personally don’t like Congress , I will admit I will vote for them unless BJP reaches out or at least softens its hardcore agenda. I need to live first to appreciate a corrupt free govt.

    I will admit that there has been large scale riots during Congress rule in many parts of India mainly targeting muslims,however atleast they are not idealogically right winged.

    Again I want to vote for Modi but it seems he doesn’t care or need my vote,as I have never seen him ask for my vote.
    Thanks
    JAi HInd

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @Sam, there are so many youths who are under-employed or unemployed and for them Rahul Gandhi is a hope, because just like them he is well into his forties and has never had a single job or been in any trade, so there is a strong empathy factor.
    Also , he been an university drop-out as so many millions in our country and that too begets another empathy factor.
    He due to his lack of educational skills has a blinkered version of geography and history (there are many youtube videos as proof) ; that creates another strong empathy factor.
    These are wiunning combinations in our country, how else can one explain the political successes of Lallo Prasad Yadav or Mamta Banerjee/

    [Reply]

    Prashant Reply:

    Once there was time when Kolkatta was the Capital of India, now because of this thinking it will only be metro because of its population, not because it will have the facilities of a metro. Think for the development, think for our country, think for the future of our coming generation and vote for Modi. This congress had enough time to make our country a developed country, but the never wanted to. They always kept filling there pockets. Vote for Modi, vote for our country.

    bajwa Reply:

    well said, i can understand ur apprehension. Media plays a big role in dividing the nation. i would like to ask my muslim friends to name one BJP state where minorities are treated as second class citizens, look, development is always inclusive and depends on how much u are part of it. i request all muslim brother and sisters to join the main stream and dont be a vote bank and get carried away with the propaganda played by congress and their media house like HT, NDTV, ABP news etc. we all need inclusive growth and good way of life and that’s why my vote goes to narender modi.

    [Reply]

    Hunter Punter Reply:

    in 2009, only 18% voted for BJP.Internet bravado, does not get one votes. BJP is an anti reform party, which will take india to the 18th century. what development and reforms have they initiated or talk about ? Incidentally, BJP is non existing in north east, begal, odisha, and barely there in UP and Bihar. It is non existing in AP, TN, kerala, and will b e wiped out in Karnatka. Wonder where your hopes come from!

    [Reply]

  • Soothsayer

    No less a person than Ataljee pronounced that BJP’s defeat in 2004 general elections was solely due to Gujarat riots of 2002!IN 2009, BJp’s tally further plummeted from 138 to 116 under the leadership of Rajnath Singh!If the next election is to be fought under him in 2014,no wonder, due to his inevitablblunders,
    BJP will be pushed to fourth or fifth place!

    [Reply]

    corrupt congress party Reply:

    how much you fkcr got paid to write this , so why are you paid pimp of the congress party worried ,if b,j,p would be pushed to fourth place, shove this sooth saying of yours where sun does not shine .
    b.j.p will be be the party with the biggest majority , where would you ****** paid stooge hide then.

    [Reply]

  • anonymous

    BJP’s 2004 defeat had nothing to do with the Gujarat riots. It was anti-incumbency against key allies like TDP in Andhra Pradesh, AIADMK in Tamilnadu etc. that lost them the election.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/jayrame Ramesh Desai

    All the speculation rests on the premise that Modi wants to become PM. I hope he does not. He is doing good work in Gujarat where other factors necessary for success are present. Let him continue. The rest of India can create another Modi, if that is what they want.

    [Reply]

  • Chennaivaasi

    If the Muslims do not want to vote for Modi, let them not. We will ignore them. Modi and the BJP will win hands down throughout the length and breadth of India. For that, first of all, the BJP top leadership should remain united. People like Advani, Swaraj, Jaitley, Venkiah Naidu or others do not have the same charisma that Modi has with the people of India. And they should therefore realise the reality and fall in line behind Modi if they want to benefit from Modi’s all-India popularity. In fact if Modi is propelled as the prime ministerial candidate, then all right thinking, educated, illiterate, poor, rich, employed and unemployed people irrespective of their party following, except maybe the congress party members, will vote en mass for the BJP. If the JD(U) walks away, they will be the losers. The people will vote the JD(U) out if they fail to clinch the opportunity.

    [Reply]

  • Manian mandak

    Things have changed quite a lot currently. Under the present circumstances India wants an able, dynamic leader who can produce results. For that in all possible ways Mr.Narendra Modi suits than any other person. Even if he is in some other Party, I will support him only. Mr. Modi proved in Gujarat how ably he led the State…proof of good item of food is in eating…Gujarat State people eat now;let us all join together to make him as PM of India. On support of Mr. Modi, I would like to say that all rank & file in BJP should not do anything that will bring obstacles for his becoming future PM;there is absolutely nothing wrong in projecting as our future PM.

    [Reply]

  • Manian mandak

    Things have changed quite a lot currently. Under the present circumstances India wants an able, dynamic leader who can produce results. For that in all possible ways Mr.Narendra Modi suits than any other person. Even if he is in some other Party, I will support him only. Mr. Modi proved in Gujarat how ably he led the State…proof of good item of food is in eating…Gujarat State people eat now;let us all join together to make him as PM of India. On support of Mr. Modi, I would like to say that all rank & file in BJP should not do anything that will bring obstacles for his becoming future PM;there is absolutely nothing wrong in projecting as our future PM.

    [Reply]

  • vinny

    Historically Gujarat has given leadership in times of crisis. Be it Gandhi or Sardar or Morarji Desai. Anything you want to say against these leaders, neither allowed their families to use their influence and get high posts in govt.

    I hope India accept Modi as he is really what India needs. I am a Gujarati. We would happily elect him as our CM one more time if India rejects.

    In 60 years since Independence, last 10 years is the only peaceful period in Gujarat’s history.Congress ruled 45 years of that 60. With effective govt, he is rewarding us even more. Godhra train burning & riots were unfortunate, but we cannot let that alone decide our future.

    [Reply]

  • San

    Modi is the right person for India. He may be egocentric and does not rely on other pople’s advice if it does not support his own action. I do not believe is anti muslim, I feel that he feels that some in that community are not pleased with what happened in Gujarat in the past, which I feel went out of control like the Sikjh riots in Delhi. His actions were slow there is no about that and I believe he regrets that. He is the only man in India that has a vision just like another Gujarati Sardar Patel. We need him in India at this juncture to lift the country from it’s current condition.

    [Reply]

  • CHN

    Anyone writing anything absurd about Modi, will sure find a place in HT.

    [Reply]

  • Madan Mehta

    After the country’s experience with Doctor Sardar Man Mohan Singh Ji Sahib, almost anyone will fare better. So whether it is Rahul or Modi, the country should see better times.

    [Reply]

  • Javed

    fcuk off pseudo-secular b1tch. we want modi. faggots who dont want modi, dont want india to progress, should be kicked out

    usually a liberal democrat – but when ppl talk crass – i feel quite strongly to not tolerate bullsh1t

    [Reply]

    Jaded Reply:

    Wash; u smell.

    [Reply]

  • Javed

    so taxi driver is intelligent but you despite of your pseudo-intellect, you are an indecisive loser with no with
    feast on his faeces might improve your wisdom levels

    [Reply]

  • Dr.V.Mahadevan

    One more blogger telling us that neither Congress nor BJP is sure of winning.OK, but Rahul will have a smooth sailing in the UPA as he is of pseudo royal blood, while Modi will face hurdles all the way.All the 25 crore Muslims will vote against Modi with a vengeance while 85 Crore Hindus have been lobotomised and largely ’secular’. so will vote for UPA & Allies Eureka! problem solved. Then why this recurring nightmare of a Modi win ?. P.S: “These bloggers must occasionally read all the comments generated by their efforts at analysis.

    [Reply]

  • Prashant

    Why media keep on saying things as if they are the only living patriotic Indians in this country. You people just wait and watch, all this paid stuff will be out when NaMo will become PM. We want a strong India, not a India which is weak. We want neighboring countries must respect us, we want our country to be developed. And what are you saying that the development will not go to Muslims, it will go to each and every citizen of India. And if someone does not want development to reach them, then it will never reach to them. Look at people who came from Pakistan at the time of partition. They fought and worked hard for developing themselves. Now they are among the most successful community of India.

    [Reply]

  • trunk

    So this murderer is worth as PM?, Are you smoking? This guy should be hanged in public for burning the train of muslims. Why would anyone even interview him.

    [Reply]

  • corrupt congress party

    this is some new congress paid writer, no substance but just made up or congress fed baseless material with no substance ,this useless writer should be courageous enough to declare how much she was paid to write to repeat wht corrupt congress anti modi campaigners fed her under her own name.
    she travelled the entire gujrat in taxi only ,why just to write this article. is this woman not reading what the indian and foreign corporate heads are saying about modi and his attitude and sincerity about the progress in gujrat ,
    progress in gujrat is not regional politics but a reality, where as the politics of caste and religion is only the politics of the corrupt congress party,lokk what this caste and religion politics has done in kashmir , assam ,n.w rerritories , in calcutta ,in bombay and nearly all the congress run states,
    she is herself saying that one hand we have a politician with no experience and nothing to show for and on the other hand there is a veteran politician with development face and she is asking who would india prefer,what a question? for modi there is already an accepted reception not only by the b.j.p/r.s.s but all the faithful indians who want to stop india being looted thru 9,876 biggest scams under the corrupt congress party and the benificiary is this foreigner phony muslim khan gandhi italian maid and her family and her corupt ministers.
    why is this paid writer worried about jdu walking out of n.d.a alliance ,she should be happy that congress will find an alliance in j,d,u.
    b.j.p would need an alliance if there would be a need of a coalition govt. in this election the b.j.p would single handedly win the largest number of seats all alone.
    kaun banega pradhan mantri is already decided ,it is all the way mr.narendra modi ,the lion heart of india a choice of 99.9% indians who are not on the payroll of the corrupt congress party.

    [Reply]

  • balaji

    bicot national parties at state–regional level elections & choose only local parties :——

    this is alarming time for all regional communities or states like assam , rajasthan , uttar pradesh ,delhi, andhra pradesh, kerala, maharashtra ,west bengal, himachal pradesh, uttarakhand, orissa , hariyana ,bihar, zharkhand, chattisgarh, tamilnadu, gujrat etc. etc have to choose only regional parties at least at state level or regional level because national parties stands are doubtful about progress of regional states , national parties should not be allowed by election commission in any state elections and also these national parties are working for single family of foreigners and their childrens carrier development and after that sleeping by giving country in the hands of foreigners, resulting in th disasrtrous situation in all country and all regional states,so finally for future development and progress in every state, all state governments should form a group of committees of highly educated economic or business management students of regional communities only ( as national communities are not honest toward progress of regional communities ) and then plan for their states economical development ……………..

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………….

    bicot national parties at state–regional level elections & choose only local parties :——

    this is alarming time for all regional communities or states like assam , rajasthan , delhi, andhra pradesh, kerala, maharashtra ,west bengal, himachal pradesh, uttarakhand, orissa , hariyana ,bihar, zharkhand, chattisgarh, tamilnadu, gujrat etc. etc have to choose only regional parties at least at state level or regional level because national parties stands are doubtful about progress of regional states , national parties should not be allowed by election commission in any state elections and also these national parties are working for single family of foreigners and their childrens carrier development and after that sleeping by giving country in the hands of foreigners, resulting in th disasrtrous situation in all country and all regional states,so finally for future development and progress in every state, all state governments should form a group of committees of highly educated economic or business management students of regional communities only ( as national communities are not honest toward progress of regional communities ) and then plan for their states economical development ……………..

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    bicot national parties at state–regional level elections & choose only local parties :——

    this is alarming time for all regional communities or states like assam , rajasthan , delhi, andhra pradesh, kerala, maharashtra ,west bengal, himachal pradesh, uttarakhand, orissa , hariyana ,bihar, zharkhand, chattisgarh, tamilnadu, gujrat etc. etc have to choose only regional parties at least at state level or regional level because national parties stands are doubtful about progress of regional states , national parties should not be allowed by election commission in any state elections and also these national parties are working for single family of foreigners and their childrens carrier development and after that sleeping by giving country in the hands of foreigners, resulting in th disasrtrous situation in all country and all regional states,so finally for future development and progress in every state, all state governments should form a group of committees of highly educated economic or business management students of regional communities only ( as national communities are not honest toward progress of regional communities ) and then plan for their states economical development ……………………………………..

    [Reply]

  • bajwa

    india never had a true mass leader whom we could look up to, after atal ji we were looking for someone who could take the leadership post which was vacant. People of india cant relate with manmohan singh, sonia gandhi nor with rahul gandhi inspite them having good chance since they were in power. With narender modi, he has touched the pulse of the nation right from a rickshaw driver to a doctor like me. we want no nonsense, decisive leader who can deliver. Don’t be surprise if BJP get more than 300 seats of its own.

    [Reply]

  • Hindu

    Jaii hind sorry Muslims Modi is here ?????????????

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/lakshmishaks Lakshmisha.K.S
  • http://twitter.com/lakshmishaks Lakshmisha.K.S
  • lenjerie intima

    lenjerie intima…

    Modi as PM: whose gain? : @ Hindi Heartland…

  • lenjerie

    lenjerie…

    Modi as PM: whose gain? : @ Hindi Heartland…