Let us corrupt our nation?

Vinodji

When the push comes to the shove, the USA will surely repeat Abbottabad, once they have credible information (must be already there) re:targets (similar to Osama’s hideout) – never mind the fact the likely protestations by many and the Pakistan establishment in particular. They will give Pakistan time to neutralise the Haqqani network. If they fail to act, then ….

I suppose, the USA must be also having a contingency plan to get hold of the Pakistan’s nuclear assets.

[Reply]

The key to understanding the time table of US action against Pakistan is the US election.

Nothing would suit Obama more than a weekly flight home bringing 300 US soldiers home at a time. TV pictures showing Obama giving them a welcome home salute.

The Afghan war would be presented as Job done, rather than Job done well.

A few good quality missile attacks in Waziristan aimed at high price targets will add to the momentum of opinion moving in favour of Obama.

The cherry on the cake will be holding back aid from the duplicitous PAK government.

The Obama election will be in the bag.

[Reply]

I think repeating Abbotabad wont be simple as the Paksitanis would be prepared this time.

However carpet bombing would be the new game, possibly finishing of the Pakistani- US affair for now. And the begining of Paksitan being totally in China’s besotted arms.

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In the previous blog there was very interesting discussion going on about dogs.
I cannot resit myself from posting in my own style.
Guys no offence to anyone just take it as a joke.

Discussion was going among few people about benefits of daru v/s roti.
One person got up and said – probabaly from my tribe -

DARU PIYO AUR INDSSAN BANO
ROTI TO SAALE KUTEY BHI KHATEIN HAIN.

[Reply]

Very disturbing news from Pakistan.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/hate-campaign-against-family-of-pak-girl-accused-of-blasphemy/20110926.htm

I was very disturbed after reading this news. I called my ex boss who is in Karachi
now. He almost cried and said this – he is a memon – “haan ta khuda bi Pakistan
khe na bachaye sagdo” Even God cannot save Pakistan now.

[Reply]

first the doggy business. Ravi yes dog, can be circumcised, though the DOGHOOD , slips out in total of the foreskin which is like a sleeve.so the choice is ENTIRELY YOURS
also doggyhood , has a slender bone in the centre and a bulge at the base rather than at the apex like manhood. also the stiffy is only stiff when down in the alley , unlike dharmendra in Mera naam joker , his joystick sticking out in the trapeeze dress
also there is a thing called KNOTTING unique to doggies , sincerely yours , the surgical biologist

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I was expecting Vinod to write on Chidambaram but he chose to duck this ugly situation and has gone back to irrelevant pakistani issue.

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@Mr Sharma,
I was no better informed or enlightened after reading your blog than I was before it. There is no coherant thought that I could find. May be I should look harder. Anyway, Mr Gilani’s statement that ‘USA cannot live with or without Pakistan” is typical of the following that a mouse told an elephant as they both crossed a bridge.
“The bridge is shaking because of you and me”.
The current Pak reaction to public US accusations is typical of Pak establishment. They have reacted with hysteria and bombast. After all, that kind of reaction has helped them on many previous occasions. Anytime, Pakistan State mounts a terrorist attck on India, from Mumbai to Indian Parliament to Kabul mission and India contemplates what it can do, the Pak establsihment launches a nuclear war hysteria , painting a doomsday scenerio, with suicidal bombast to get attention and divert issues.

That strategy has worked before against India. It needs to be see how far that strategy succeeds against USA.

[Reply]

Who will find no seat, when the music stops

Most analysts point out that what is happening in Afghanistan and its Eastern border is powerful groups jostling for status in post war Afghanistan. Haqqani group of mercenaries are no different in this respect.

The Major contenders for power and influence are, the US backed Afghan Government, The Pakistan backed Afghan Taliban, The Independant Haqqani Group, Pakistan and India. The ultimate prize is who is able to exercise hegemony in Afghanistan.

US’s preferred scenario is; to allow India a significant role and Pakistan sees that as the US and India meddling in its backyard and all its activities must be seen in this context. Its fear is that India may encircle it, just as China is encircling India by using Pakistan as its western proxy.

The Haqqani’s are playing a complex game, but essentially, they want to secure their business interests; smuggling, protection, trucking, etc. The ISI has outsourced some of its interests to the Haqqanis who for a price are willing to their dirty work in Afghanistan. Pakistan wants Afghanistan to become its client state.

The Afghan Taliban and the Afghan Government may come to a compromised power sharing agreement, just as the US is about to leave.

In this game of musical chairs, guess who may find no where to sit when the music stops.

[Reply]

UNFINISHED BUSINESS from last post””””””””’

First of all Ashish, thank you for pointing out that fewer bongs were involved in the communist movement prior to 1948. But then, as Sanjay Mittal and Balwinder pointed out, communism emanating from Bengal took Bengal and the country back by miles.

Mittal’s comments got hidden-
” I guess to not to be a communist at 18 showed you had a hard heart.
And if you remained a communist after 21 … it showed a lack of a head !!

I can give you a list of 100 on how the Bengal communists failed us. here is a sample

— They consistently opposed the liberalisation policies, even when the applauded China for liberalising and getting foreign capital. It was good for China… but never good for India.

— They danced on the streets of Calcutta when North Korea did a nuclear test. But cried and protested when India conducted the same. Ditto when China did this.

— They supported China during 1962, dreaming that China is going to overthrow the capitalists.

— The ransacked the industries of Bengal to make it a failed state in terms of industry

Now these are 4 points. In case you want 96 more… ask me ! ‘
UNQUOTE

[Reply]

Ravi, just noticed that if any muslim takes an honest no-nonsense stance on Islamic terrorism, you get very upset and start calling them names. You did it with Rizwan, you are doing it with Shoeb.
An inability to see continuity and overlap between ISI, Pak army, LeT, Haqqani etc can only result from not wanting to see the obvious.

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With its military boots on ground or aerial assault through drone attacks what significant achievement (success) will US get? If Waziristan is safe heaven for Haqqanis then what was Kunar, Marjah, Herat?? Isn’t that safer heaven for Haqqanis , Taliban and Hizb e Islami as well. US/ISAF forces have badly failed in Afghanistan. These elements are much more safe n sound inside Afghanistan than on this side of Durand Line where they’ll be easy to spot and target.

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Rajiv, Rajeev, Sanjay Mittal,

Vinod Sharma’s blog this time is typical of the head-in-the-sand response of the congress supporting media. Pretend that nothing is happening or divert people’s attention to something 99%of Indians do not think a damn about.

I am reminded of a cartoon that appeared in the Indian Express in 1961. When the Chinese had gobbled up most of the Indian land in Aksai Chin and there was a huge clamour for “action”, our (in)famous defence minister, Krishna Menon marches our army into Goa and ” releases” it from Portuguese occupation!

[Reply]

Shenoy Saab

I often wonder . when bombs rip through masjids, or markets or , religous processions and congregations , as we often read about in papers or on TV ,in Pakistan , Waziristan or such areas inhabited by the “pure” and killing hard to enforce the word of their Almighty , does anyone grieve for the dead or those who are left crippled and maimed , or the children who are orphaned.

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Two pundits fighting hehe
Time to stop nonsense. Ashish and mishra doc will not like to hear what I say next, both are ver learned but have EGO.
Ashish is better with words which are like playing of violin, but Mishraji has an expanse of knowledge and history and the way he links it that is unequalled. When he linked Anna Hazare movement with ancient hindu jain tradition of shravans?? and linked that with Buddha, Chanakya, republics, governance= nearly all were spell bound.
Dear Ashish, I like u but pl u listen= banging on about apology over minor silly point is making u look POMPOUS.

[Reply]

Ravibhai, why abuse Shoeb, made no sense.
Rupert and antaes, welcome to best blog on planet. Everyone read their excellent contribution

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Mr Shenoy

I am reminded of the GUlf War in 1990. Our then PM, Chandrashekhar wanted to talk to someone on world stage. Unfortunately our international standing was low at that time. Finally Chandrashekhar’s secretary managed to connect to the PM of Nepal !

Our PM then expressed his opinion on the Gul War and it was the main news on Door Darshan for two days…

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(Usman, I would like you to provide a ground reality based assessment; mine is just my observations)

One of the indications US projecting is that they are ” winding down” in Afghanistan, but “winding up” in Pakistan. The necessary congressional and public support is harnessed; the American public seems to be squarely behind tough actions on Pakistan – a unity of purpose they did not have when they went into Iraq.

The ground situation in Pakistan over the years,a s we all know, is muddled; with total confusion from top to bottom, a “free ride downward’..Zardari did not even attend Taseer’s funeral for fear of his life!

Future historians will decipher whether the present ground situation happened organically as a result of the army rule over time, or whether it is the result of a planned US meddling. If it is the result of the army rule, it has to be post Zia Haq; because army did a decent job of governing prior to him. The situation now is
1) Civilian leadership (may be an oxymoron) is not much concerned about Kashmir; but it is the centrality of the military, especially the new officer corps recruited from non-traditional land-owning sectors
2)the use of Islamic fundamentalists for state use/insurgency is well rooted in Pakistani psyche. From an original mainly Deobandi outfits, many have sprung up which are non-deobandis such as LeT, which is Ahle Hadith, with Wahabi orientation. LeT has also moved from its original Kashmir focus to a “world” focus including domestic Pakistan affairs.
3) Pakistan’s “Hedge and Hope” strategy with the Talibans and other extremists clearly started unraveling after 9/11, with the pressure from US. JeM, LeT etc that were aligned with Pakistan Govt, started going after the govt . Pakistan started compartmentalizing Taliban, as good Taliban (Afghani based) and bad Taliban (Pak-based attacking Pakistani army)
4) The Lal Masjid mosque incident further radicalized the Pak Taliban, with increased recruitment from the Punjabi Deobandis
5) Pak did not go after LeT after the Mumbai attack, either because of their fear that the attack will transform LeT into a formidable army they will have to fight for ever, or they will lose the only card they had in Kashmir.
6)Pakistan did not act against the Swat/South Wazirstan based Talibans until they started to move to Buner, just 60 miles from Islamabad.
7) Pakistan never ventured into North Wazirstan, giving a free play to Hacquanis. They think Hacquanis provide them strategic depth (?) in Afghanistan vis-a-vis India when US leaves. US “precision attack” on Osama Bin Laden has brought all these in focus. Info seized during the raid has provided a treasure trove of intelligence info to USA . US has connected all the dots between military/ISI/terror networks.

Can Pakistan come out of this mess in whole? (we are not even talking about Baluchistan!)? The only way they can is:

- Go after Afghani Taliban including Hacquani; forget about the mirage of “strategic depth”
- Work with the US in controlling domestic terrorism that is eating Pakistan away (LeT potentially can take over parts of Punjab and Sindh)
- Managed, thought out shut down (unlike the siege of Lal Masjid) the thousands of Deobandi madrasas that function as feeder institutions to terrorist organizations

US will do something on its own in N Wazirstan/Haquani territories if Pak does not go after Hacquanis. Or Pak may be waiting like they waited till Pak Taliban showed up in Buner– but it may then be too late!

Usman, will appreciate your perspective

[Reply]

Ashish, you have your favourites and I have mine. Sorry I think you are very good but gopi and mishraji are EXCELENT. You are now beginning to sound a bit pompous and arrogant, you scored a minor point, mishra conceded graciously= now move on.
And sorry puttar, Gopi and Mishraji have a grasp of indian and world history that leaves you gasping. I have said that u debate like lovely violin music, but thats all. I wud struggle to remember any notable historical fsct from u othrr than this communism from bengal= you are bengali and yr dad was staunch cpm member so that is expected.
Sadly u displayed a side in last 24hrs that was hidden before, pl u hide it from now on

[Reply]

@Usman

It is going to be a busy day at the office for you.

I had posed a question earlier, there has been no answer from other bloggers.

The USA has publicly alleged (perhaps not without reason/evidence) that ISI/Haqqani network targeted US interests in Afghanistan – thus inviting their wrath. Would you know why?

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@Ashish and anyone else
Be careful about what you say about Bengal communists. I have lived in Bengal for 25 years and seen each of them from CPM-CPI split ( yes they were one party first until one part , CPI , accepted Soviet Union as the mother land ! ) , seen CPI-ML rise in late sixties and am aware of each of the jewels of the comunist family from RSP to FB ( but they also claim loyalty to Netaji ! ) . I have mostly scorn and derision for their politics of sloganeering , which mostly consists of slogans like ‘Down with American imprealism ( american samrajo-bad nipat jaak ) and ‘break Indira Gandhi’s black hand ( Indira Gandhi’r kalo haat , bhengay dao, guriya dao ) etc. Sure all political paries in Bengal ( from Communits to Congress ) have criminal elements as any party in power attracts criminals , because the party in power can afford protection. Since Comminists have been in power for almost 3 decades in Bengal, after the Siddhartha Shankar Ray administration in seventies, which was not good either, they have to bear the majority of the blame.

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How brazenly duplicitious and treacherous , Pakistan , can be
Read from NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/world/asia/pakistanis-tied-to-2007-attack-on-americans.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

A group of American military officers and Afghan officials had just finished a five-hour meeting with their Pakistani hosts in a village schoolhouse settling a border dispute when they were ambushed — by the Pakistanis.

An Afghan soldier near the border with Pakistan in May 2007, around the time of a border dispute and an attack on Americans.
An American major was killed and three American officers were wounded, along with their Afghan interpreter, in what fresh accounts from the Afghan and American officers who were there reveal was a complex, calculated assault by a nominal ally. The Pakistanis opened fire on the Americans, who returned fire before escaping in a blood-soaked Black Hawk helicopter.

The attack, in Teri Mangal on May 14, 2007, was kept quiet by Washington, which for much of a decade has seemed to play down or ignore signals that Pakistan would pursue its own interests, or even sometimes behave as an enemy.

The reconstruction of the attack, which several officials suggested was revenge for Afghan or Pakistani deaths at American hands, takes on new relevance given the worsening rupture in relations between Washington and Islamabad, which has often been restrained by Pakistan’s strategic importance.

The details of the ambush indicate that Americans were keenly aware of Pakistan’s sometimes duplicitous role long before Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate last week that Pakistan’s intelligence service was undermining efforts in Afghanistan and had supported insurgents who attacked the American Embassy in Kabul this month.

……………….”

If India thinks, that the current powers ( Army/ISI ) that rule Pakistan are amernable to reason, then India is a bigger fool than USA.

[Reply]

Ashish, sorry did not mean to hurt you. When you passed strong value judgement on others, the others took it well.
When I passed a minor judgement on you in the gentle way, while at the same highlighting your plus points, you call me troll ¡!!!!!!!!!
You will notice that on subject of communism in Bungal and its evil influence lasting decades, all of us, respected voices all spoke up= mishraji, gopi, mittal, rajiiv,

All trolls Prof Ashish ??????? If you are second best, not end of world u know

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Viju
Where are you? Hope u r ok..

[Reply]

Ashish, Sanjay and others too.

One must realise that Marxism/Communism was never a democratic choice of any society, except perhaps in some Indian states (would welcome any more examples outside of India). It was thrust upon the people by their ideologues, who promised the proletariat “just and ideal” system (the heavens if you like), as compared to the system that was being replaced. When the delusion set in (many reasons – the theory and the system itself were flawed, absolute dictatorial practices, etc.), the system was just thrown out by the very proletariat. In short, communism can never be the free choice of the people (especially those who have tasted democratic values) and that is why perhaps some of the leaders and the committed cadre welcomed the 1962 incursions by the Chinese, hoping it would overrun the entire country – it would be the only way to usher in communism throughout India.

In 1969, I had accompanied a journalist friend to meet N G Gore, one of the doyens of the Socialist movement in India, I think he was member of the Praja Socialist Party then. He was realistic enough to admit that communism and socialism would never succeed in India – the principal reason being that these ideologies put temporal matters above spiritual matters, adding that one cannot just go around India telling people that there is no God.

IMO, the communist system in its totality under our Constitution (one of the most remarkable documents ever) is bound to fail.

That the people of West Bengal kept returning the communist parties to power for thirty odd years is remarkable in itself. Whether people were patient enough to wait for that heaven on earth, I do not know (perhaps you would elaborate on the reasons). Mamta Bannerji could be considered a milder version of the communist leadership she has replaced.

[Reply]

Om swaha !

________CASH FOR VOTE_________

“After reaching Le Meridien, my cameraperson switched on the spycams on the two MPs. Argal, Kulaste and Hindustani went inside. Kulkarni, my cameraperson and I drove to Café Coffee Day at Janpath and had coffee while we were waiting for the BJP MPs to return. After some time Kulkarni received a call on his phone and we all went and parked ourselves near the exit gate of the hotel,” says Gautam.

After some time, the MPs and Hindustani emerged from the hotel. “Argal came and told us that nothing had happened at the hotel. There was nobody inside. I was surprised,” Gautam told Tehelka. “I took the recorders from the two MPs and started reviewing the footage. The footage showed random shots of the hotel lobby. It showed them walking inside the hotel, walking around the lobby and waiting at the coffee shop. But, there was no negotiation or Congress leader on the camera or any kind of meeting. I told them the footage had nothing.”

“Kulkarni got visibly upset at this fiasco,” he continues. “He asked Hindustani what went wrong. Hindustani replied that Patel had waited for them but since they were late reaching the hotel, he left.”

Gautam told Tehelka he had no way of finding out if there was actually a meeting set up between Patel and the BJP men. “I don’t know if Patel had actually come there at all. I found this guy (Hindustani) very suspicious but since he was our only source for the story I had to carry on,” he says.

After the failed attempt to get Patel, Kulkarni, Hindustani and the BJP MPs became desperate. Hindustani assured Kulkarni he would make more phone calls and line up some other buyers. “Hindustani said we would have to go to another place for the sting. I told him if we want to record more footage, this particular footage had to be deleted as there was a shortage of space. Since there was nothing in the footage, we decided to delete it.”

Around 11 pm, the entire group shifted to 4 Feroze Shah Road, which was Argal’s official residence. Until then, the sting operation was being planned and executed from Kulkarni’s official residence at 17 Balwant Rai Mehta Lane. The no-confidence motion was scheduled in a little less than 16 hours. The clock was ticking. It was at this stage that the BJP turned its attention to Amar Singh. Having realised that Ahmed Patel was out of bounds, a desperate and last-ditch effort was now made to entrap Amar Singh, who everyone knew had the reputation of being a powerbroker.

After the Le Meridien episode, Gautam had suggested to Kulkarni that it would be better if spycams were fixed in a room and all the meetings from hereon were held at a fixed place. Kulkarni had said that since no one would come to his place, it was better to shift the scene of the sting to Argal’s official residence instead.

On the way to Argal’s residence, Gautam said Hindustani kept trying to line up buyers. After reaching Argal’s place, the CNN-IBN team fixed the two spycams in the drawing room. While the reporter and camerapersons were bugging the room, Hindustani kept pacing outside, making calls to people in his bid to line up someone who could come and offer the BJP MPs money to defect.

At the other end, Argal too kept trying to find some buyer. He made several phone calls to different people, telling them he and two more MPs were ready to sell themselves for a good price. In all these recorded conversations, Argal can be heard luring people into the trap by announcing that he and two more BJP MPs were ready to sell themselves for a price. Tehelka now has in its possession 10 such telephone conversations that Argal made to unidentified middlemen.

Argal could be heard telling somebody in one telephone call: “Mere paas do MPs aur hai…tum bula ke jitna daam ho utna aa ja….time nahi hai…wok kya hai doosra aadmi aur jagah bhi bhatak rahe hai na. Jitna hai utna le aao tum log”. (I have two more MPs…You call them and tell them how much…there is no time…see, the second man is roaming around. Bring whatever amount you have).

The man at the other end replied that it was too late to act as it was already around midnight.

“Barah baj rahe hai toh aap baat karlo. Main savere nau sade naun baje tak ghar pe rahoonga” (It is midnight, you talk. I will be at home till 9-9.30 tomorrow morning), Argal could be heard replying. He then added, ”Ek Mahavir Bhagora hai aur ek sajjan Faggan Singh Kulaste hai. Yeh Rajasthan ke hai, Udaipur ke aas paas. Adivasi quota ke hai” (One is Mahavir Bhagora and another is Faggan Singh Kulaste. He is from Rajasthan, somewhere near Udaipur. From the tribal quota).

The man at the other end assures that he would come the next morning. At this point, Argal says again: “.” (Hold talks. Just bring the money. We will just abstain. You just hold the talks and come to us.)

Shockingly, this particular conversation and nine other telephone conversations, which are now in exclusive possession of Tehelka, reveal that, at least in this instance, it was the BJP MPs—supported by no less than men of the stature of Sudheendra Kulkarni and Arun Jaitley—who were actively soliciting a buyer and not the UPA which was hunting for bribe-takers.

Sample this: In another conversation with a middleman (it’s not clear whether it’s the same middleman as in previous conversations or another one), Argal could be heard saying this: “Aadmi koi jimmedar hai ki aisi hi hai. (Is there somebody responsible who is going to negotiate?)” The voice at the other end is not clear. Argal replies: “Nahi to fir kya jawab do main (So what should I tell them?).” A few seconds later Argal says: “Aap baat kar lo pahle. Unko main bata do ki kitna.. sansad badnaam to bahut ho rahe hai aapko maloom hi hai.(You first consult with them. What should I tell them (referring to two other BJP MPs) that how much…You know the bad name that MPs are earning)”

In yet another conversation Argal could he heard saying: “Token to poocho kitna hai. Kya unka man hai? To main bata doo unko. (Just find out what’s the amount of token. What’s on their mind? So I could tell them (the other two MPs).”

In another conversation Argal is saying, “Koi jimmedaar ho to humko leke chale aur koi jimmedar aadmi se baat kara de. (If there is somebody responsible who could take us to another responsible man so we could negotiate.)”

Later in another conversation he says, “To hum kaha pe jaaye..koi humko bataye hum kaha pea a jaaye. Koi aadmi bharose ka ho to to hum jaaye (So where should we come? Somebody should tell us where we should come. If there is somebody responsible we will come).”

In another clip Argal says: “Agar Kapil Sibal jaisa koi jimmedar aadmi ho to hum baat kar sakte hai. Hamare saath koi chota mota aadmi thodi na hai, purva mantra raha hai. (If there is somebody as big as Kapil Sibal we are ready to come. I also have with me a former minister (referring to a BJP MP who was being offered for sale).’

It is clear from this conversation that Argal was trying to send a message out to different middlemen that he and two more MPs were on sale. Gautam has told Tehelka that this was exactly what was happening—a last ditch effort was made to find buyers.

Clearly, there was a desperate plan to destabilise the government with proof of horse-trading—to be acquired at any cost. “There were two simultaneous efforts being made to entrap somebody,” says Gautam. “One effort was being made by Argal. Another parallel attempt was being made by Hindustani who was making frantic calls outside in the lawn.”

___

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main49.asp?filename=Ne020411Coverstory.asp

[Reply]

MANOHAR

Nice take on communism in Bengal. You spoke- ‘ That the people of West Bengal kept returning the communist parties to power for thirty odd years is remarkable in itself ‘
Do you think it was poverty of money AND a poverty of ideas ? I find that both Jehadi Islamism and communism had a few similarities-
1. Violence or the threat of it
2. A ‘book’, small enough to be carried about anywhere
3. Indoctrination, particularly of the oppressed and poor
4. And the biggest irony- both communism and jehadism are a definite threat to others BUT THE BIGGEST DAMAGE THEY DO IS TO THE SOCIETY PRACTICING IT.
comments welcome

[Reply]

Manohar and Shoeb

Manohar, I am sure you were not expecting me to answer the question you posed, but IMHO that the following at least partially answers the question.

A SHARE IN CONTROLING THE POST-WAR AFGHANISTAN.

Who will find no seat, when the music stops

Most analysts point out that what is happening in Afghanistan and its Eastern border is powerful groups jostling for status in post war Afghanistan. Haqqani group of mercenaries are no different in this respect.

The Major contenders for power and influence are, the US backed Afghan Government, The Pakistan backed Afghan Taliban, The Independant Haqqani Group, Pakistan and India. The ultimate prize is who is able to exercise hegemony in Afghanistan.

US’s preferred scenario is; to allow India a significant role and Pakistan sees that as the US and India meddling in its backyard and all its activities must be seen in this context. Its fear is that India may encircle it, just as China is encircling India by using Pakistan as its western proxy.

The Haqqani’s are playing a complex game, but essentially, they want to secure their business interests; smuggling, protection, trucking, etc. The ISI has outsourced some of its interests to the Haqqanis who for a price are willing to their dirty work in Afghanistan. Pakistan wants Afghanistan to become its client state.

The Afghan Taliban and the Afghan Government may come to a compromised power sharing agreement, just as the US is about to leave.

In this game of musical chairs, guess who may find no where to sit when the music stops.

Shoeb

In response to my post above you posted the following….

Ravi
Pakistan “satisfies” all requirements to be classified as a “terrorist state”. Wih the Indian embassy bombings last year using ISI/Haquni in Kabul, and the bombings on US army in Afghanistan (thru Haquani) Pakistan fulfills the UN requirements .. Un resolution 1368 on terrorism states that nations found to be “supporting or harbouring the perpretators, organizers, and sponsors of thease acts will be held equally accountable”– So, Pakistan should be declared by the UN (or by US) as a terrorist nation; assets frozen, bombings to dismantle the terror network conducted.

Any Indian who is against this when UN/US declare it a terrorist state should be considered a terrorist and kept im jail, because there will be “Muslim friends”, politicians, “liberals”, “secularists” etc here on this side of the border who is against declaring Pakistan officially as a terrorist state.

This may come as a surprise to you, every one – INCLUDING ME – knows and acknowledge that Pakistan is Terrorist State. No ifs, No buts.

However, what you say does not connect with my post yet it was posted as your response to it.

I will be very happy for UN to declare Pakistan as a terrorist state. Libya was declared a terrorist state decades ago, apart from one missile attack nothing practical came out of it.

Likewise, Iraq was declared as a terrorist state, after it had fought a long war with Iran on instigation of the US.

I am of the view little more than PR value will come out of declaring Pakistan a terrorist state. The risk is that Pakistan finding itself isolated would become even more hostile towards India and China would exploit that situation.

BTW US declared RSS and LeT as a terrorist organisation, did that make any difference!!

Shoeb, I am sorry for my abusive behaviour towards you.

[Reply]

Ashish & Dr Mishra

I understand that JNU runs some excellent courses on History.

[Reply]

Thank you Shoeb.
Lets have a vote, WHO THINKS THAT HINDU TERRORISM is as dangerous or has killed as many ppl as LEFT WING TERRORISM, maoists, communists, naxalites.
pl no waffle, just brief discusion and vote.

So far score balwinder= shoeb 1
ravi= 0
i am keen to learn abt magnitude of hindu terror or to bin in category of 5000 dalit rapes, a politicisation and gross exageration of a terrible social evil

[Reply]

THIS IS WHAT I SAID

BALWINDER CAN NOT READ his comprehension is at about the same level as a Bonobo Chimp

Dr Mishra

I assume you do not consider Right Wing Religious Fundamentalism, a threat.

Well I do.

I would actually put the threat from Right Wing Hindu Fundamentalism in India at par with the threat posed by Left Wing Fundamentalism.

Your omission is note worthy.

Historically, all forms of ideological extremism have committed genocides.

[Reply]

Arresting people who expose crime ?
Why are the whistle blowers in the cash-for-vote scam to save Manmohan-Sonia sarkar being arrested ? This is total travesty.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2490042.ece?homepage=true

“Sudheendra Kulkarni, former aide of BJP leader L.K. Advani, was on Tuesday arrested and sent to the Tihar Central Jail in judicial custody by a special court in the cash-for-vote case. It rejected his interim bail plea.

The court also deferred to Wednesday the passing of an order on the former Samajwadi Party general secretary, Amar Singh’s regular bail application and extended his interim bail on medical grounds by a day.

Mr. Kulkarni appeared in the court for the first time after the charge sheet was filed. He had sought exemption from personal appearance twice, saying he was in the U.S. to help secure his daughter’s admission in a university. The court had given an ultimatum to him to appear before it on Tuesday. Special Judge Sangita Dhingra Sehgal will hear his regular bail application on October 1.

Mr. Kulkarni said he was a “whistleblower.” He criticised the Delhi Police Crime Branch’s claim that he was the “mastermind” of the operation. “If my purpose was to receive illegal gratification, I would have pocketed the money. The deal was not for the Rs.1 crore that the three BJP MPs displayed on the floor of Parliament but for Rs. 9 crore. I would want to pocket the rest of the money and be quiet about it. I was a whistleblower and my purpose was to expose the horse trading in the Lok Sabha.”
…

meanwhile it looks like the crime branch has no interest in finding the actual criminals, the people who provided the money !

“At this, Mr. Kulkarni’s counsel said: “They have not even investigated the source and the purpose of the money that was passed on.”
“

[Reply]

Ravi, others can read, leave it to them. Wait for vote or discussion. You have now brought in nazism and partition deaths to distract, you are digging deeper hole for yourself, tomorrow ppl will get more angry with you.

Both of us should now be silent and let respected bloggers vote. As you can see shoeb is independent of his religion, ashosh and mishraji are independent of caste and fight over issues, ashish and rajiiv ate bengalis but differ= so u see total independence here. Ppl vote on issues, on ideology, on rationality and logic. Well 98 percent anyway. Hehe

So pl u keep quiet, and same I, and we count votes tomorrow

[Reply]

@Manohar_T , will you have the guts to answer a straight question
HAVE YOU READ , DAS CAPITAL and the works of karl Marx ’s friend and collaborator Angels . I HAVENT. It is not possible , unless you are committed as probably Ashish’s dad.
Just like if any balwinder sandhu says he has read GIBBON’S Decline and Fall of Roman Empire. It will have me in stitches. In fact it is impossible to finish those books , with our lifestyle. ONLY ASHISH CAN ANSWER WHY COMMUNIST IDEOLOGY HAD A SUCH AHOLD ON MIDDLE CLASS BENGALI PSYCHE, HIS WORDS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN AS GOSPEL TRUTH.

Having lived in uk for some time , where marx lived , hampstead to be precise , and his friend Angels , a manchester jewish textile merchant, these are my stray thoughts
Marx was no MUG. He lived at a time where he saw the grisly picture of WORKHOUSES in london , where children worked exactly like CARPET FACTORIES of AGRA and cow belt.
He saw how the workers were treated like serf. But he did not arrive at his conclusions by some DIVINE VISITATION. hE STUDIED THE REPORT OF THE inspectors and all the DATA mined by them .I read this in The Guardian.
Also he saw the triumph of science and how it was making religion and monarchy irrelevant.
Also all his theories are DEEPLY rooted and INSPIRED FROM the works of KANT AND HEGEL , Is it Kant who proposed Thesis ., Antithesis , Synthesis.
I think there are two aspects of Communism , THE ECONOMIC THEORY AND THE POLITICAL THEORY.
The Economic theory TRANSFORMED the SERF country RUSSIA into a MODERN COUNTRY AND A SCIENTIFIC/MILITARY SUPERPOWER.

The states where there wasn’t much allure of communism , THE COW BELT , TAMIL NADU , they are anything but a sophisticated society. These are societies of Ranbir Sena , Bahubali , Thakur et al . As for tamil nadu , in 70’s millions flocked to Bombay , and this is the spur for the rise of the cartoonist Bal Thackarey, and the notorious Vadarajan(Dayavan)
I LIVE IT TO ASHISH TO ELUCIDATE THE REASONS FOR COMMUNISM’S HOLD ON THE BENGALEE PSYCHE.
Post Script, Communism was FOR THE INTELLECTUALS OF EUROPE . The Cambrige FIVE who defected to USSR were NOT GANGA KINAREY WALA type , they were extreemely sharp mind like Anthony Burgess. The film director Louis Bunel , French Goddard , and Italian Fellini were all communist so was Pirondelo and Dario Fo

[Reply]

The Americans’ view of Pakistan/Haqquani etc:

Hardly any day has gone by during the last several weeks without a news anchor/pundit/congressman/senator mentioning about the duplicitous role of Pakistan. The testimony by Adm Mullen, the outgoing Joint Chief of Staff, and Leon Paneta, the new Secretary of Defense to the Senate Armed Services Committee was an eye-opener to many. Both Adm Mullen and Secretary Paneta put it in simple language – Pakistani sponsored groups are attacking US military personnel; they (US) have been working with the Pakistani army in the spirit of cooperation; but they (US) will have to take some tough actions against Pakistan, in Pakistani territory if they have to.

The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have been providing wide coverage about the attacks done by Haqquani network – all the instances where they attacked and killed US military personnel. They also covered the Indian embassy attack in Kabul; and pointed that it was a joint ISI/Haqquani operation. Today’s NY Times provided a grim news about the Pakistani army men themselves killing an US Army Major (Major Larry Baugess) in 2007. Apparently the army higher ups and the defense dept higher ups (and President Bush) knew about it; that the attack was not by a lone disgruntled lower level Pakistani army guy, but by several Pakistani army personnel including senior army officers. This was hush-hushed in the “larger interest”. But it looks like this was not an isolated incident; and these types of activities plus the Haqquani activities finally made the US guys to declare a war of words. I am sure New York Times will unearth more Pakistani killings of US army personnel in the coming weeks. The testimony alluded to the loss of US lives through complicity. Any more revelation will most probably force Americans to come out on streets demanding an invasion!

Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a senior member of the armed services committee came on TV interviews on Sunday, indicating that US will act if Haqquani brothers/sons are not prevented by Pakistan from further attacks on US army. To a question on whether US will attack Pakistan, he said all options including an attack are on the table.

The news media is ratcheting this up every day; it was a question posed to the Republican party primary candidates’ debate last Thursday in Orlando.

The universal opinion of every “opinion maker” who has been interviewed on TV news shows was that all actions including force should be expended if Pakistan does not come around.

I believe US will attack if Pakistan does not go after dismantling the Haqquanis. The people here are for solving the Pakistani problem once and for all, even with a troubled economy..

Not only that Obama will not be blamed for an attack, in fact he will be hailed as a hero for solving the tough Pakistani problem (along with killing Osama bin Laden who was hiding for 10 years)..

[Reply]

In response to US demand to act tough on Haqqani group, pakistan has pleged to China that it will take touch action againsts Uighur militants active in pakistan and Pakistan has also stateted that China-Pak relationship is higher than himalayas, deeper than oceans and sweeter than honey.

gayi bhains paani mein…I guess US has no option but to eliminate Haqqani brothers Osama way.

[Reply]

3 Indians selected/honored by US Committee on Science and Technology:

President Obama honoured 12 scientists/innovators for this year’s awards on Science and Technology. Of the 12, three were Indians – Dr Srinivas Iyengar Varadan, Dr Rakesh Agarwal, and Dr Jayant Baliga — Not bad at 25%!

Congratulations to these smart scientists/engineers/mathematicians! Let us be proud of their achievements!

[Reply]

The “ keep me at arm’s length “ PM of India is rushing to meet his “keep me in your arms” boss. He has come back from US, after a neither here nor there speech in the UNGA , and is in urgent need of being comforted . The heat of 2G is now coming too close and the comfort and warmth which those arms can provide can never come from anywhere else .Those were the arms which pulled him from nowhere and changed his destiny . Something which he had never dreamt of. Now he sees a sinister plot and a hidden hand … probably foreign … behind all the exposures .The conspiracy is hatched by the Opposition, bureaucracy… even his own office , Judiciary …even the Supreme court of India. Anna Hazare …Baba Ramdev are all part of the conspiracy. But somehow he has to keep himself at arm’s length from all this …. But will he ?

[Reply]

Balwinder, you have asked for a vote- ‘ WHO THINKS THAT HINDU TERRORISM is as dangerous or has killed as many ppl as LEFT WING TERRORISM, maoists, communists, naxalites. ‘
If you ask Ehsan Jafri’s family you will get a different answer, his was murder most horrific. But barring the Gujrat riots which followed Godhra, and the recent Malegaon etc blasts- this vote is a damp squib- nowhere is saffron terror even a tenth as big as the other, which MMS said was a national emergency in several districts of India

[Reply]

Sanjay,

you said, “I try not to drink in front of my child and always tell him “ki yeh papa ka grape juice hai…”

These days the school teachers tell their students that drinking fruit juices, particularly apple juice, grape juice etc. is good for the health. There is therefore the risk that your child takes a liking for “papa ka grape juice”. (More so if it is readily accessible).

[Reply]

Gopi, Manohar, Aashish,

As usual very interesting discussion . Great read.

[Reply]

Ravi, when you lose debate or vote u do not resort to name calling, challa sikh, crypto hindu etc. You knocked on my door 2months ago and sent 15 personal emails asking for my help in declaring u non pakistani. Have I dealt with u fairly after that ?
But when u say
1. 5000 dalit women get raped everyday
2. Saffron terror is as lethal as communist / maoist terror
then I open for discussion and vote. That is civilised debate. Abusing shoeb or myself is juvenile.
Do not bring in Nazism or partition deaths to confuse

[Reply]

Vijay,

Where are you ? I hope everything is alright.

[Reply]

What the famous Pakistani writer Sadat Hasan Manto warned in mid 50s, long long before the current problems – that the US will ally itself with the most undemocratic elements of Pakistani society, Generals and Islamist Mullahs, to protect its geopolitical interests has happened with disastrous results for Pakistan; with an endgame that can be even more catastrophic, as if they need another catastrophe.

We blame Pakistanis (of those days and now) for not rising against their leaders (generals?) for “getting on high” with financial aid/weapons.

If it was reversed, and if US instead put its weapons and money in India at that time, would the Indians have opposed if Nehru accepted these?

With all the negatives being floated on Nehru these days, aren’t we better off now that he did not take any military and financial aid from USA during our nation’s infancy? Had he accepted that, we would have become a Paksitan, with incompetent generals, mullahs, parivars all in collusion against the common man.

The leadership made all the difference. A Nehru had the foresight to reject the inducements and choose our own course (flawed it may be).

Pakistan has been down the hill ever since.

We waited, waited; and chose an opportune and right time, after the cold war, when economic globalization would create harmonious new alliances of elites of both countries.

We should be thankful that Pandit Nehru did not want to help the United States assume the burden of defunct British empires in Asia and Africa.

[Reply]

Ravi since your emails to u I have not called u pakistani. When u were rude with shoeb yesterday, Mishraji rebuked u, u were flippant.
Sorry, but these 2 I respect hugely. Shoeb has made excellent comment on Manto and Nehru today.
I did include in my vote question that moist leftie commy caused as many deaths OR WAS AS DANGEROUS as safron terror. Most here hv emphatically and for months said no. Thou shalt not call them names

[Reply]

People who talk about partition riots should know, that Indians or as some criminal thugs like to refer Indians as ‘Hindus’ opposed partition. It was Pakistan Muslim league of Jinnah that fanned communal hatred to attain partition and should be the only party to be blamed for partition riot deaths. And when partition happened, while 15% of Muslims that lived in territory of India today , migrated or were killed in riots while 85% ( repeat 85% ) of Hindus and Sikhs that lived in W Pakistan were murdered or migrated. Thats the reason Hindus and Sikhs that made 22-25% of W Pakistan population are almost extinct there.
It should be clear even to a lieful, Pakistani peddler ( dalit rapes ? ) where the blame must lie.

[Reply]

Gopi

You wrote

“Manohar
What if Pandit Nehru had adopted some of the proposals of Rajaji and Masani in the late 50s? My sense is that we would have been a $7-9 trillion dollar economy now, with better systems, better service delivery efficiency etc.. I am glad we were forced to do a do over in 1992, and we had a pragmatic , visionary leader Narsimha Rao at that time. God blesses us sometimes. What if Dev Gowda was the PM at that time? Or Sharad Pawar”?

This is my perspective.

1) No policy or initiative is taken in isolation.

2) The Marxist model as adopted by Soviet Union and Eastern Europe was not yet considered as a failure in the 50s, it was still work-in-progress. Nor was the capitalist model was declared a resounding success. So there was no clear cut historical evidence to pick a winning model of development.

In such a scenario, what model India should have adopted? The problem was compounded by the fact we did not have enough funds.

As Shoeb has pointed in an another thread that Pandit Nehru did not fall into the lap of the USA – we could have got a sort of a Marshal Plan (enough funds and many American companies setting plants and factories) with one too many strings attached. We could debate that whether he was right or wrong. In hindsight, we are always wiser and we can sit in judgment and praise or blast him. Shoeb has done the former from the political angle.

India’s budget in 1951 totalled a mere Rs 193 crores (equivalent to Rs 29000 crores today) for a population of 36-40 crores.

Why Nehru did not listen to Rajaji, Masani and others, and opted for the public sector model? Perhaps, the majority of the Congress leaders were in agreement with Nehru and not with Rajaji. The question of availability of funds (with the Government and in private hands) was big factor. Not enough. Whatever aid/loans we got then was mostly from the United Kingdom, I suppose, with lesser strings attached.

To label Nehru a dictator and say he did not listen to others and took every decision by himself is being grossly unfair to him, never mind the fact his stature and respect allowed to have him his way on many matters – sometimes with disastrous results – his almost blind faith in the Chinese leadership.

A little known forgotten fact about Nehru. On every Monday morning, if both he and the President (first Dr, Rajendra Prasad and then Dr. S Radhakrishnan) were in town, he would go to the Rashtrapati Bhavan without fail to brief and discuss with them the matters of state, otherwise on the first available convenient day after that. Mind you, both the Presidents were no rubber stamp types – they would let Nehru know their displeasure on any matter they disagreed with him on. Whether he took cognizance of their advice or not is another matter altogether. I do not know know, if this practice followed today or not ,if not, when did it stop. These days, if the PM meets the President, it is news.

Development through public sector investments had its pluses and minuses – perhaps more minuses. Maybe you are right, we could have been 7 to 8 trillion economy today, if he had followed the capitalist matter, but I am not so sure. The question to ask – would the capitalist model have succeeded starting from the 50s? As I said there was no historical precedence to follow, hence no guarantee that it would have been so in a country like India. We are all wiser after the event.

Having seen for 40 odd years that the commanding heights of the public sector and licence permit raj was resulting in only 3.5% rate of growth – more famously known as the “Hindu Rate fo Growth”, it is to credit of Narismha Rao and Dr. Manmohan Singh that they showed the courage to over turn the basic economic philosophy of the Congress Party and more or less of most other parties. The moot question is if there was someone else, would they have done the same – we can debate that forever. We were broke, we had to airlift so lot of our gold reserves to London as guarantee for loans. Many of our self appointed nationalistic and patriotic parties labeled it as a blasphemous act.

What if Dev Gowda was the PM at that time? I do not think this needs to be debated – as he was labeled as the Prime Minister of Karnataka,during his tenure.

Sharad Pawar? I will post my comments later.

[Reply]

———————————————————————————————-
To understand Pakistan and Jinnah, read this.
By Time/LIFE Reporter , Margaret-Bourke-White ,who covered the first mass riots of India , before partition, instigated by Jinnah.

http://iref.homestead.com/DirectAction.html
Direct Action in Calcutta

Excerpted from Margaret Bourke-White’s book, Halfway to Freedom: A Report on the New India, Simon and Schuster, New York, 1949. White was a correspondent and photographer for LIFE magazine during the WW II years. In 1946 she was in India. The following is her account of the Direct Action Day launched by the Muslim League in Calcutta on August 16 of that year. Tens of thousands died from communal riots that started in Calcutta and then spread to other places all over India. This was a prelude to the carnage of partition that followed a year later.

Why had the fearful Great Migration come to pass? Why were millions of people wrenched from their ancestral homes and driven toward an unknown, often unwanted “Promised Land”? For years Hindus and Muslims had struggled side by side for independence from British rule. With freedom finally on the horizon why should India begin to tear herself in two along religious lines?

The overt act that split India began in the streets of Calcutta. But the decision was made in Bombay. It was a one-man decision, and the man who made it was cool, calculating, unreligious. This determination to establish a separate Islamic state came not — one might have expected — from some Muslim divine in archaic robes and flowing beard, but from a thoroughly Westernized, English-educated attorney-at-law with a clean-shaven face and razor-sharp mind. Mahomed Ali Jinnah, leader of the Muslim League and the architect of Pakistan, had for many years worked at the side of Nehru and Gandhi for a free, united India, until in the evening of his life he broke with his past to achieve a separate Pakistan.

Jinnah lived to see himself ruler of the world’s largest Islamic nation before he died in September, 1948, at the age of seventy-two, but I think of him as reaching his pinnacle of power two years before his death, when freedom-with-unity appeared on the verge of becoming a reality and he took the momentous steps that crushed all hopes for a united India.

Jinnah’s press conference at his Bombay home on fashionable Malabar Hill, in late July, 1946, marked the public turning point. It was so unusual for the Quaid-i-Azam, or “Great Leader,” to call a press conference that both foreign and Indian reporters rushed eagerly to attend it. Nor were they disappointed. On that mid-summer morning, Jinnah intimated — rather boldly — the coming of Direct Action Day. Two and one half weeks later this day touched off a chain of events that led, after twelve explosive months, to a divided India and the violent disruptions of the Great Migration.

Until then most of us had thought the differences between the Congress Party and the Muslim League would somehow be resolved and that freedom would bring a united nation. Jinnah’s arguments for division were all familiar: that the Muslims in India were outnumbered three to one by Hindus and would be crushed under Hindu domination; that Hindus worshiped the cow while Muslims ate the cow; that religion, customs, culture all made Muslims different from Hindus. Opponents of the two-nation theory maintained that Hindus and Muslims could not be so different, since there was no racial difference. Ninety-five per cent of India’s Muslims were just converted Hindus. Even Mr. Jinnah, they were fond of pointing out, had a Hindu grandfather.

For my part, I believe that the tragic weakness of the Indian leaders during this crucial period was their failure to take a firm stand against the forces of Indian feudalism. A spellbinder with slogans found it all too easy to galvanize the pent-up suffering of centuries into one powerful current of religious hatred. That this was done by an ambitious lawyer in Western dress and of unorthodox habits makes it all the clearer that religion was used like a document plucked from a briefcase.

There was a good deal of the successful lawyer about Jinnah that midsummer morning of the press conference, as he stood on the steps of his spacious veranda receiving the reporters. A pencil-thin monochrome in gray and silver, with perfectly tailored suit and tie and socks precisely matching his hair, his manner with us was courteous but formal. As he fitted his monocle to his eye and began to speak, there was something consciously theatrical about Mr. Jinnah — throwback perhaps to that most un-Islamic chapter of his past when he was a Shakespearean actor in England.

His statement to the press was in the form of a monologue, delivered in an icy voice, which was forecast of fiery events to come. “We are preparing to launch a struggle. We have chalked a plan.” We reporters, although we sat around Jinnah in a closed circle, had almost to stop our breathing to hear his curiously hushed words. He had decided to boycott the Constituent Assembly. He was rejecting in its entirety the British plan for transfer of power to an interim government which would combine both the League and the Congress. He lashed out against the “Hindu-dominated Congress” in his flat, chilled monotone. It seemed clear, now the bondage to the British was drawing to an end, that he was free to concentrate all his fire against the opposite party.

“We are forced in our own self-protection to abandon constitutional methods.” His thin lips slit into a frigid smile. “The decision we have taken is a very grave one.” If the Muslims were not granted their separate Pakistan they would launch “direct action.” The phrase caught all of us. What form would direct action take, we all wanted to know. “Go to the Congress and ask them their plans,” Mr. Jinnah snapped. “When they take you into their confidence I will take you into mine.”

There was silence for a moment, broken only by the cooing of pigeons, hopping over Jinnah’s manicured lawn. Then he added in the same toneless voice, so strangely unmatched to his words: “Why do you expect me alone to sit with folded hands? I also am going to make trouble.”

Next day the Quaid-i-Azam changed out of his double-breasted suit and put on Muslim dress and fez for the Muslim masses. Standing on a platform liberally decorated with enlargements of his portrait, he announced that the sixteenth of August, two and a half weeks hence, would be “Direct Action Day.” His vituperation against the Congress was acidly explicit. “If you want peace, we do not want war,” he declared. “If you want war we accept your offer unhesitatingly. We will either have a divided India or a destroyed India.” And the Muslim Leaguers jumped up on their seats and tossed their fezzes in the air.

It was a battle between top-flight politicians now. The papers blazed with accusations from both sides — League and Congress equally intolerant in their attacks. The opposing streams of fiery words had a terrible effect on the emotional Indian people. Passions mounted during the crucial fortnight; Direct Action Day dawned in an atmosphere of dread and foreboding.

Most of what I learned about that day came from a little tea-shop keeper in Calcutta, where the explosion began. As soon as I heard of the incredible events taking place, I had flown from Bombay to Calcutta. The disruption of normal city life was so great that it was some time before I could make my way to the ruined heart of the bazaar district. Hunting for a survivor who had been an eyewitness to the first stroke of direct action, I found Nanda Lal, in the wreckage of his teashop. ……..

On the morning of August 16th, Nanda Lal started his oven and set out his tray of sweetmeats as usual. When his little son came out with the jars of mango pickle and chutney, he commented to the child that the streets looked reassuringly quiet. The sacred cows that roam freely through the thoroughfares of Calcutta were sleeping as usual in the middle of the car tracks, and rose to their feet reluctantly, as they always did, when the first streetcar of the day clanged down Harrison Road.

It was the sight of that first tram that confirmed Nanda Lal’s fears that this day was to be unlike all other days. Normally it was so crowded with commuters that they bulged from the platform and clung to the doorsteps and back of the car. Today there was hardly a passenger on board.

Then things began happening so quickly that Nanda Lal could hardly recall them in sequence. But he did remember quite clearly the seven lorries that came thundering down Harrison Road. Men armed with brickbats and bottles began leaping out of the lorries — Muslim “goondas,” or gangsters, Nanda Lal decided, since they immediately fell to tearing up Hindu shops. Some rushed into the furniture store next to the Happy Home and began tossing mattresses and furniture into the street. Others ran toward the Bengal Cabin, but Nanda Lal was fastening up the blinds by now, shouting to his son to run back into the house, straining to bar the windows and close the door. …….

During the terrible days that followed, Nanda Lal huddled with his family and relatives in the upper hallway. Sometimes bricks and stones crashed through the windows of the outside rooms. The children cried a great deal; they were hungry as well as terrified. …….

On the fourth day Nanda Lal noted that the weapons in the street fighting had grown heavier. Soda-water bottles had given way to iron staves, and unfortunately the neighborhood had a plentiful supply of rails from the fence surrounding the near-by Shraddhananda Park. Finally, as the skirmish of the iron pikes reached its fiercest, a convoy of three military tanks rolled through and machine-gunned the mobs, and along with them the police made their belated appearance. ……

When peace returned to Calcutta on the fifth day, the streets were a rubble of broken bricks and bottles, bloated remains of cows, and charred wrecks of automobiles and victorias rising above the strewn figures of the dead. The human toll had reached six thousand according to official count, and sixteen thousand according to unofficial sources. In this great city, as large as Detroit, vast areas were dark with ruin and black with the wings of vultures that hovered impartially over the Hindu and Muslim dead.

Thousands began fleeing Calcutta. For days the bridge over the Hooghly River, one of the longest steel spans in the world, was a one-way current of men, women, children, and domestic animals, headed toward the Howrah railroad station. ……

But fast as the refugees fled, they could not keep ahead of the swiftly spreading tide of disaster. Calcutta was only the beginning of a chain reaction of riot, counter-riot, and reprisal which stormed through India for an entire year.

The next link in the chain was the Noakhali area in southeastern Bengal. Here in the uncharted recesses of swampy lowlands and hyacinth-choked bayous I talked with Hindus who had abandoned their villages en masse and fled to the riverbanks. They had strange tales to tell of forced conversion to Islam, of being compelled to throw the images of their gods into the water and to eat the meat of the sacred cow. ……

Gandhi — though he was far too old to endure such hardship — went to Noakhali and tramped on foot through marshes and jungle trying to restore confidence to the villagers. Trade-unions and peasant organizations threw their weight toward unity. It is significant that throughout the worst of the disruption in Bengal, five million Hindu and Muslim sharecroppers campaigned together in the Tebhaga movement for long-overdue land reforms. Wherever there was constructive leadership toward some goal of social betterment, religious strife dwindled to the vanishing point.

But between these small islands of Hindu-Muslim cooperation were the burning villages, the blazing fanaticisms. The sparks of Bengal flew westward to the state of Bihar, where Hindus wreaked merciless vengeance on the Muslim minority. The flames of Bihar fanned out to the Punjab and touched off explosions that dwarfed even the Calcutta riots.

Months of violence sharpened the divisions, highlighted Jinnah’s arguments, achieved partition. On August 15,1947, exactly one day less than a year after Nanda Lal had seen direct action break out on his doorstep, a bleeding Pakistan was carved out of the body of a bleeding India.

[Reply]

Ashish

You wrote
“Manohar,
a side discussion or maybe not…
I have always been amazed about the Shiv Sena- have never lived in Mumbai- but used to be a frequent visitor in the nineties.
How do thugs like them gain even partial respectability? How is it that Bal Thakeray and his family do not ever get hauled up in court?
No hurry; whenever you get some time; a considered response will be appreciated”.

Shiv Sena, once it was formed sometime in the late sixties, was used by Indira Gandhi to neutralise the communist-controlled trade unions in Bombay, (especially in the textile mills). Once the (mis)deed had been achieved, he turned against the Congress (a la Bhinderanwale) – seeing himself as the uncrowned king of Bombay and a sure way to riches, by intimidation, threats and violence, yet the Congress looked the other way all these years (perhaps for the past services rendered) until Feb 2010 (see below). Of course, whenever he was about to go overboard on issues, a quiet phone call from the Home Minister, that he would be behind bars if went ahead, would do the trick. He was not prepared to stand his ground for the issue he claimed to be fighting for.

Two incidents.
1) I was told and there were rumours at that time, that during Sikh militancy in Punjab, when approached, he had demanded money (amount varies- but was no chicken feed) and was paid to leave the Sikh population in Maharashtra alone by his goons.

2) During the 1992-93 riots, after the demolition of the Babri Masjid, when citizens went to the Chief Minister (Sudhakar Naik – a disgrace) for protection, he simply told them to approach Bal Thakre, saying he was helpless.

Many cases were registered against Bal Thakre for the (2) above.

When the only SS-BJP government was formed in 1995 in Maharashtra (that is when the remote control terminology came into the political discourse), a small time SS worker wrote a letter requesting the Government to drop all charges against him. Gopinath Munde, the then DCM and HM, promptly accepted the plea and the State Government withdrew all the cases against him.

Partial respectability? It is demanded by threats and intimidation, and not commanded. He has his followers and worshipers though.

When the SS and its breakaway MNS started targeting the North Indians, questions were raised in UP and Bihar to the Congress. After the visit of Rahul Gandhi in February 2010 made famous by that ride in the local train, outwitting the SS, they have been told to behave or else. Next their bravado of opposing ‘My Name Is Khan’ release met with humiliation – the film was released and they could do nothing about it. At that time, Manohar Joshi had infamously had remarked on TV “jab Shiv Sena maafi mangti hai, to Shah Rukh Khan ko pataa honaa chaahiye ki maafi mangni hi paDe gi”. Poor Joshi, he had nowhere to hide after the release of the film.

In the 2005, the SS-BJP had been fined Rs 20 lac fine each by the High Court, for calling a bandh, after the Ghatkopar blast. When they went in appeal to the Supreme Court – they were told – first pay the fine and then come to us. They had to pay.

There is also a law in Maharashtra. Any political party or anybody damaging public or private property in course of protest (legitimate or not) has to pay for the damages. They have been fined several times and have been made to pay. It hurts the most where it matters – the pocket. The court has never granted any relief.

That is why you do not see too many (hardly any) acts of vandalism and violence by their goons.

This is my reading of the situation of what follows (I may be wrong). After Uddhav Thakre became the Executive President, he tried to steer the party from its violent ways, to gain wider acceptance and respectability among the larger sections of the people. After the results of 2009 general and 2010 assembly elections – they reverted back to their old ways, but the fines and clear directive from Delhi have kept them caged. Now they make only noises for sound-bytes on TV.

[Reply]

Mr Ravi

You should join the RSS to purify your soul Can’t you see that Jinnah talked of hatred and division. The RSS talked about Akhand Bharat.

Mulsim League had no love and place for minorites in its dreamworld. RSS at least has a minorites cell and can be asked to give more reprsentation to minorites.

Pakistan has only produced a thousand suicde bombers..

Rss produced none.

So see the difference for once and stop cribbing ever after…

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@ ravi

No we are actually talking about a different Jinnah who is a waiter in a topless bar in Mingora, Swat valley….

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Dont know why the comment sailed up here… it was meant to be a reaction to Ravi, who was reacting to Rajiiv’s posting…

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Manohar-
Lets come back to the current times from Nehru’s days, and to the subject of this blog.

I believe there are cataclysmic forces pulling Pakistan apart; and US will impinge hard-felt pain sooner than later. The rhetoric is ratcheted up; Pakistan is talking about sacrifices, US congress members are talking about teaching a lesson etc etc. Fortunately (for them) this threat is uniting all the diverse elements for the time being. The real issue for us is how will a US attack/or a crazy action by Pakistanis in anticipation of an attack, impact our growth; now since we have a good platform and the PM has assured that our growth this year will be attractive in the 8% range.

Will refugees flock through the western border? Can we block? Or build a temporary holding place? Will terrorists seep through under the pretext of refugees?

Will the lunatics use dirty bomb at us (assuming the terrorists already possess dirty bombs)? Or, worse, will the official Pakistan (a mad general or generals) trigger a bomb attack against India? (India being a friend of US now). Will it end up as a Pak/China – India/US game?

With attention diluted on to various transactional issues such as G2, do you think our ministers are spending any time on the what ifs now since the possibility of a US action is very high? Come to think of it, will they be discussing and proactively planning for any contingencies even if they (the current UPA or any future ministry in its place) are not distracted by G2s

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Jean Genie Jinnah

All

Attempt has been made to reheat the soufflé called Mohd Ali Jinnah, and as is always the case the re-heated dish is less than palatable.

I am not well acquainted with the character of Mohd Ali Jinnah, but I can recognise when an attempt is being made to assassinate it.

Needless for me to re-iterate, that I am no fan of any of the BJP dignitaries, but even I acknowledge that neither LK Advani nor Jaswant Singh are any one’s fools. Both are seasoned politicians, educated and wise enough to know which side of their bread is buttered.

Despite that, a few years ago both spoke and wrote effectively to rehabilitate Jinnah’s reputation in India.

This raises some questions:

1. Why TWO very senior BJP leaders felt that there was an overwhelming need to say image-reforming things about Jinnah.

2. Was there an attempt being made to ingratiate the BJP with the Indian Muslim Community, with a view to denting Congress’s vote-bank.

3. Was one witnessing two seasoned politicians overcome with pangs of consciousness. The consequential itch could only be scratched by writing reversionary books, which have put some considerable gap between with words villain and Jinnah.

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Fantastic friends, what lovely points put out.
RAJIIV, JINNAH””””””””’
Let me confuse you rajiv-
1. Around 1910-1915, Jinnah was considered an ambassador of hindu muslim unity !!!!!!!!
2. His marriage to Ruttie in 1918 was explosive then- she was Parsi
3. He was a a very astute politician. A little known fact was his meeting Tara Singh and others where he asked the sikhs to join Pakistan. They said they had conditions. He signed a blank piece of paper and gave it to them- ‘I accept ALL your demands’. wow
4. From 1945 he worked very hard trying to convince the rich Sindhi and other hindu business community of Karachi to stay on. He pleaded. Not out of emotion, but he knew the enormous wealth and wealth creating potential they represented .
5. The role of Allama Iqbal has not been mentioned here. The man who wrote ’saarey jahaan se accha’ became the ideological father of the idea of Pakistan, AND JINNAH WAS ONLY THE MEANS TO ACHIEVE THIS

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RAJIIIV , JINNAH ””””””””””

1. When Advani and Jaswant Singh, and many others in Pak say Jinnah is secular, it is because of THAT SPEECH in 1947-
‘ You are free to go to your temples, mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. In course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State. ‘

A great speech in isolation, but by then the monster of Direct action day had been released.
And actually this speech and Jinnah’s legacy was dead as early as 1949 when the Obejctievs resolution was passed- Pakistan constituion would be based on Islam and the Quran.
RIP SECULARISM

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TNT- TWO NATION THEORY”””””””””

The complete hijacking of the education system in Pakistan was achieved by introducing Pakistan Studies, a mandatory subject for ALL students – it is Islamic brainwashing at an extreme. The TNT is taught as if it is the holy grail- not surprising therefore that Shahrukh Khan keeping both Geeta and Quran in the same room is percieved as harraam.
witness how this stupid but very charismatic and dangerous demagogue aid Hamid slugs it out with Marvi Sirmed on TNT- he insults her by saying- you are a bindi wearing ‘hindu’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMgRK0NVNY

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All
Muhd Ali Jinnah was the greatest MFer who started the double dealing/backstabbing of Pakiiss.

This is from today’s Wall Street Journal 9/28/11 front page with photo) ..

Joint chief of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen has long been seen as Pakistan’s closest friend in Washington.

He visited Islamabad 27 times since 2008 in his role as America’s top uniformed officer, cultivated a bond with the Pakistani army chief of staff and early in his tenure said he believed Pakistan was serious about plans to take on militant groups that the US wanted to shut down.

But in recent months, Adm Mullen said in an interview with the WSJ, he concluded that the partnership approach he long had championed had fallen short and would be difficult to revive ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Explaining his switch in the interview, Adm Mullen, like many other US officials, said the Americans are now going to have to take a tougher line in demanding Pakistan rein in militant groups.

“I am losing people, and I am just not going to stand for that” he said, “I have been Pakistan’s best friend. What does it say when I am at that point? What does it say about where we are?”………..

“it is very clear they (Pak army) have supported them (Haqquani) ” Adm Mullen said. “I dont think the Haqquanis can be turned on and off like a light switch. But there are steps that could be taken to impact Haqquanis over time” ..

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SHOEB AND MIRZA””””””
One of you best posts ever.
You mentioned Saadat Hassan Manto. I read his brilliantly acerbic tale of a mental asylum bang on the border at the time of partition-Toba Tek Singh. When the ‘lunatics’ are asked to choose between India and Pak they refuse to do so and Toba Tek Singh, in a brilliant last scene puts his legs on either side of the border and refuses to move.

A must read. Very funny, and incisive. To the inmates, the ‘normal’ people on the outside indulging in bloodshed seem to be the real lunatics.

Pakistanis like Manto, Faiz Ahmed and Manzur Qadir could think on both sides of the border. Manzur became the Foreign Minister of Pakistan and his honesty and integrity were legendary. As Khushwant Singh used to say, whenever they were in a moral quandary, they used to ask, ‘ How would Qadir saheb have acted here’

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I had better stop. Comments, bouquets and brickbats welcome.
Before I go-
1. Balwinder praa, you had me in stitches- ‘ thou shalt not abuse ‘ haha. A Shakespearean nihang, now I have seen it all
2. Gopi said ‘ Our country was not divided on religious lines, until Jinnah started …’
and I pounced on that.
Wrong Sir, and may I say it is rare of you to make a mistake, I am itching to reply but I have gallons to say- so for tomorrow
Good night folks. Rajiiv, Shoeb, MANOhar, Mirza, Gopi, Balwinder and others- many thanks for education and entertainment

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@Mishra,
Jinnah’s personal faith, secular or non-secular, is immaterial. Neither is his demand for a seperate state for Muslims of the sub-continent , in itself diabolic, irrespective of the merits of that demand.
Everyone knows that Jinnah was not a practicing Muslim. So assuming he was secular in his personal life ( that did not prevent the duplicitous thug from disowning his own daughter for marrying a parsee, while he himself married one ) , that howver does not absolve him of monumental political crimes.

However, what reduces Jinnah to one of the greatest criminals and mass-murderers of history is his cynical use of religion to forment communal violence and frenzy, so as to attain Pakistan. Please re-read the account by the Life reporter Margaret on the press-conference where Jinnah declared the day of direct action.

The years preceding partiition, particularly 1945-47 were used by Jinnah to instigate communal frenzy in a cold blooded manner and as the Times reporter wrote about Jinnah
“A spellbinder with slogans found it all too easy to galvanize the pent-up suffering of centuries into one powerful current of religious hatred. That this was done by an ambitious lawyer in Western dress and of unorthodox habits makes it all the clearer that religion was used like a document plucked from a briefcase.”

He was easily the vilest of men. Now that does not preclude that he may have been a different politician in 1930-ties.

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Mean while an ex American national security advisor had this to say about Pakistanis ..
“As former national security adviser Richard Clark to Bill Clinton pointed out on Real Time with Bill Maher a few weeks ago, the Pakistanis don’t even know themselves when they are lying or telling the truth anymore…they are such congenital liars. So we in the United States need to treat them just like you’d treat someone admitted to a mental hospital — patience and a lot of medication.”

However, My favourite description of Pakistanis comes from Taleban Afghan ambassador to Pakistan who called them worse than two mouthed snakes.

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Arsenal won two goals to one . My comments will be on TWO TOPICS.
Jinnah and the US response to pakistan.
Regarding Jinnah , al those who have commented with copy and paste are true to their CHARACTER , a pack of football hooligans , particularly the english variety. These hooligans visiting the host country abuse the national song of that country , even try to give COD HISTORY lessons.like telling Belgians “We saved you from Nazis”, forgetting Yanks saved them all.
Serious academic work have been done on Jinnah . The foremost is AYESHA JALAL (oh yes despite the surname , she is NOT PAKISTANI).
What some profoundly ignorant bloggers have posted is like the last 15 minutes of a film (The yankee coorespondent ’s report). Some as ususal have resorted to name calling.
I dont know how many are aware JINNAH WAS A FULLY PAID UP MEMBER OF THE CONGRESS PARTY . So what happened , THIS IS WHERE AYESHA JALAL AND JASWANT SINGH COMES IN.
It was profoundly hypocritical to dismiss the allegation THAT CONGRESS UNDER GANDHI WAS TOTALLY UNDER THE CONSERVATIVE HINDUS.
If they could not stand NETAJI SUBHAS BOSE , what chance a muslim fish monger’s son has in that party.THEN HONESTY AND TRUTHFULLNESSS IS NOT A HINDU TRAIT IT IS MOSTLY SEEN AMONGST SCIENCE LOVING ANGLO SAXONS.

Now US response towards Pakistan.
I was amazed at the suferficiality of Vinod Sharma ’s reply to a blogger.
Haqqanis are 14,000 strong , thinly spread , drones can do only so much . USA HAS A BASE INSIDE PAKISTAN from where drones are flown. This was splashed on the first page of THE TIMES of London , some six to nine months ago.
US can DESTROY pakistan with sea based tomahawk missiles .
Do remember pakistan has about 60 F16, so it will be F16 against F16.
Also pakistan will take the war to afganistan.
THE GREATEST WORRY
Knowing how islamic mind works , i will not be surprised if pakistan LOBS few nukes acroos the wagah border , or for that matter at VASANT VIHAR.
This will give a vicarious pleasure of having done something to avenge bangladesh war, AND ALSO MAKING THINGS MESSIER BY DRAGGING CHINA INTO IT , BY ITS INCURSION INTO ARUNACHAL PRADESH
Have a good night sleep.

Next is

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Mishraji and 5rajiiv your history jugalbandi is SUPERB, bhaut vadia. Everyone pl u read above. I learnt a lot.

And then total garbage by darnley alias Dr shan. LIAR SHAN, says ayesha jalaal is not pakistani. Ha, I have got her book on Jinnah in my house. The intro says ayesha is niece of Sadat Manto, the famous pakistani writer, shoeb and mishradoc spoke about. She left pakistan as an adult !!!!
DONKEY LIAR Shan

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@Manohar_T, this is for the third goal that arsenal should have scored.
Your lines
For that to happen, we were not deprived of our basic needs (true there certain shortages from time to time – thanks to licence permit raj). Our way may be was slow, but humane and I have been very comfortable with it.
I cannot help thinking, Coleridge while writing KUBLA KHAN must have been in the state that you were in while writing those lines.
WE WERE NOT DEPRIVED, EXCUSE ME , WHO IS WE , ALL THE CHUBBY OVERFED BLOGGERS HERE.
How about RamKhilaban , Ramnaresh , Jalebiya , how about KALAHANDI, BUSTAR , PURULIA , MURSHIDABAD, DANTEWADA .
An average reading of Russian History will inform you the transformation of Russia post communism was breathtaking , WITHOUT PARALELL IN HISTORY. All the scarcity is only during the period 1980-2000. Russian agriculture hasalways been a problem . RUSSSIA NEVER DEVOLOPED ANY KIND OF FEUDALSM.With Zamindari , there is share cropping , thus some INCENTIVE, RUSSIA HAD SERFS , neither the landholder nor the tiller had any interest in the land ,
THE FALL OF COMMUNISM IS THE GREATEST STORY YET UNTOLD. I will pay to listen.
As for India AND WE WERE NOT DEPRIVED , HERE IS A CUT AND PASTE
In 1947 the share of Agriculture in total GDP was 50%. Gradually it declined and has now
come down to about 20%. Still however 60% population depend on agriculture for the
survival. In 1988-89 i.e. prior to introduction of Financial Sector Reforms, growth rate in
Agriculture in India was 15.4%, which has come down to 9.4%(2006-07). Due to rapid
2
growth of rural population and division of families the farmland has undergone rapid
fragmentation. Presently 80% of the farmland holding are with the small and marginal
farmers owning land up to 5 acres. For these category of farmers cost of production by way
of farm inputs has increased manifold over the years while the productivity of the land
remained at the same level and sale price of farm produce has not commensurately
increased. These factors have driven farmers to the debt trap and have caused distress
leading to suicide. My experience in the field has shown that smaller the landholding higher
is the cost of production. The distressed economy of small scale crop cultivation is further
accentuated by lack of knowledge, scientific application of crop management, diversification
practices, inappropriate system such as non availability of quality input material in time,
inadequate irrigation facility, non-remunerative prices, dominance of middlemen in
Agricultural Marketing Structure.

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@Mishra,
Enjoyed the link, writing about events in India in the spring of 1946,
Its very informative and thanks for posting it. I would encourage all readers to read it.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,792780-6,00.html
I would recommend everyone to read those 6-pages.

Also the link I had given earlier from Margaret Bourke’s book should be a must read.
http://iref.homestead.com/DirectAction.html

@Balwinder,
The more i read the history of that era, the more it becomes clear to me that Jinnah’s politics took a vicious communal turn because his muslim league did very badly in 1936-37 state assembly elections. Jinnah’s Muslim league had hoped to do well in muslim majority areas. However, Nehru-Gandhi-Netaji-maulana’s congress, who had forged a secular, Hindu-Muslim unity politics, did extremely well in Muslim majority areas. The success of Muslim candidates belonging to Congress above Muslim league’s muslim candidates, drove Jinnah to communal politics.
Ironically the success of Hindu-Muslim unity ideology of Congress , spawned the most vicious communal politics of Jinnah’s Muslim league, aided and abetted by extrimist elements. It was all about political power and ambitious and egoist Jinnah was determined to teach the Congress of Nehru-Gandhi a lesson, irrespective of the means and the cost.

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The current Pakistani response to US charge of duplicity has been summed up well by a Pakistani writing in DailyTimes.

So the US is mad — really, really mad. And the Pakistani security establishment responds by acting madder and meaner. Really? A writer friend summed up the Pakistani response in an old Pashto anecdote, the sanitised version of which goes as follows: someone found a jackal howling by the roadside at night and asked what was up with the full-throated yelling. The jackal responded, “I am scaring the living daylights out of everyone.” “But why are your legs trembling,” asked that person. “I am scared too,” responded the jackal.
”

Its a absurd theatre, drama and a circus all rolled in one.

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Suno Suno ai duniya walon chahen jitna zor laga lo..sabse aage honge hindustani…

A truly inspiring tale of Indian hardwork
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/sep/280911-Paris-Hilton-Hundred-dollar-note.htm

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Balwinder Praha

I read your comment below. My request to you is do not look at Dr Manmohan Singh through the prism of your being a Sikh. For me it is immaterial whether he is Dr Man Mohan Singh or Dr Manmohan Saxena . The reason why I feel so angry with him is that he got a lot of respect and affection from the country ,and that included me ,but he chose to be loyal to someone else rather than the country. Since he did not come from the traditional Indian political background with vested interests, he could have done wonders for the country. If only he could have got his resignation letter typed and signed and kept in his left pocket , and if he had told his appointing authority…,now I shall do the best for my country and I don’t care whether I continue for 6 months or 6 weeks….. but that was not to be. He sold his soul to stick to that chair.. honestly speaking.. quite sad.

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Spurious Detail

As soon as the British decided that they will quit India, the struggle to define what Post Independence India would look like, started. The main sticking issue was who would govern, and what would be the power structures of the new nation.

Principally three groups, were to become the stake knife holders in this tussle.
These were the Muslims, who saw themselves as former rulers, the Hindus who saw an opportunity to once again establish their rule in a country they saw as being theirs, and the British who wanted a modern India, that remained within their sphere of influence. These groups were of neither of equal matching strengths nor were they holding clearly defined and universally agreed demands. This determined the negotiating tactics each employed. The ground realities changed by the hour as the clock towards August 1947 ticked and tocked.

Jinnah’s role in this scrum has been chronicled here, what has not been detailed here is the role of the Congress, which at the time was representing both the moderate as well as hard-line Hindus.

In the post independance Nation building phase in India, Jinnah was cast as the outright Villain, and Gnadhi the undisputed hero. Almost the exact opposite was the case in Pakistan. Some bloggers, both in this as well as the previous blog, have tried to change the commonly held perceptions about these two leaders of men, which were fabricated during this phase. This is an inevitable exercise as our nation matures and we no longer need villains to define ourselves. LK Advani and Jaswant Singh realise that. Sadly their masters in Nagpur do’nt.

The Hindu right feels that much more political mileage can still be gained by continuing their persistent character assassination of both Jinnah and Gandhi.

No amount of detail of the kind, in 1938 at the 38th annual jamboree of the Congress party, held in Nagpur, he said that to him and the other reacted like that, etc.” is going to camouflage the fact that what is going on is little more than character assassination for paltry political gain.

The questions I posed as to why did LK Advani and Jaswant Singh utter revisionary niceties about Jinnah, still remain unanswered.

Deliberately so.

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Binoy Hegde,

you said, “Shan

I tend to agree with your reading on possible Pakistani reaction – they will throw bombs at India.. Let us hope Indian Govt has considered this possibility”.

I learn from an utterly reliable source within the “coterie” the following:

Yes, Indian government has MOST CERTAINLY considered the possibility.
It considers the threat UNACCEPTABLE AND INDIGESTIBLE.
It also has decided to respond strongly and with maximum force at its command.

The response is this: A strongly worded complaint to the UNSC has already been prepared with able inputs from Oily Moily, Khali Kapal Sibal, Digvinash Singh and last BUT ALSO THE LEAST, OUR DEAR AMUL BABY. The Security Council will be asked to call an emergency meeting and will be requested to pass a unanimous resolution (S.M. Krishna has been even asked to note the numberof the resolution for all future references), requesting Pakistan to desist from any further adventurism.

Contingency plans are already drawn to fly the dynasty members to Italy. A fully loaded 747 jumbo is ready 24/7 at IGI in a dedicated hangar, with a helicopter parked at 10 Janpath to lift the family to IGI.

A strongly worded “appeal” is also drafted for the Indian cattle class, asking them to bear the loss of their near and dear ones, with a prayer to Allah the merciful to save those still living.

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All
Please read the 1946 Time Magazine report on Jinnah’s activities (link provided by Dr Mishra below) , and the report by Margeret Bourke/TimeLife photographer (link provided by Rajiiv)…these were the “real time on the ground” reporting of important activities leading to dismemberment and destruction of partition – shows what an evil man Jinnah was..how callous..to openly say “I will have India divided, if not, destroyed!”

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Mishraji, u may remeber Rizwan”s father and Syed used to love your posts and yesterday u and rajiiv outdid youselves. I sm havong tea and going thru all the links.

One point, syed and rizwan were both Shias and that may have something to do with it. Shias being a minority often, do look at life differently. Certainly now shiad Are On The run in pakistan and may look at partition differently. Shias donation offer for Ram mandir was well recd although some pseudo secular congressis here hated it.
DONKEY SHAN is hiding after I caught his lie about Ayesha Jalal not being a pakistani. His rambling posts here worries me reg his mental heslth

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Will US Bomb Pakistan? And what will be the result?

There is a good chance that the US may be forced to take some action against its favourite errant child, Pakistan, once it has claimed that ISI was behind the US embassy attack and killing of its men in Afghanistan. THough the US economy is more or less drained out, it has to have a face saver. It won’t be a ground attack. But probably more dromes and maybe some bombers.

Will China side up with Pakistan? I dont think so. China would be happy with this assault as this would throw Pakistan totally in its arms. This would be an occassion to sell more weapons ot Paksitan, as well as buy land and regions in Occupied kashmir, part of which has already been given to it by Pakistan.

And India. I dont think Paksitan will launch a full scale attack on India in an attempt to unify the nation. It is already short of fuel and foreign exchange and wont open another front. However it would surely do another kargil. Musharraf too had claimed that Kargil was an attempt to focus the world’s attention to onto Kashmir. This attention gathering syndrome would again be used as a ploy.

So it is exciting times ahead…

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@Balwinder
The otherday I learnt somehing from your reference to “chardi kala”, which is part of the prayer in gurudwara at the end of the kirtan when they ask for kids to be blessed with “chardi kala”. I must have attended more than 100 kirtans/langars in gurudwaras or friends houses and have organized a few langars myself with my wife in our local gurudwara. I am fluent in punjabi, but always wondered “a chardi kala, ki balay way ?” Somehow I never asked anyone. Your mention of it as meaning “byuoant enthusiasism” makes sense.

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Mohan

If one were to chronicle the misdeeds of the Shiv Sena, it would run into 5000 plus pages.

The amount of damage they have done to image of Maharashtra and to Maharashtrians is horrific.

Scores of projects that should have naturally come to the state, quietly just went away.

For example, the Indian School of Business was to be set up in New Bombay. Due to intransigence of the Thakre Sr, who insisted on a certain percentage (20-25%) of the staffing and students must be reserved for “Marathi Manoos”. The CM, Manohar Joshi, who had done all the spade work, was left standing twiddling his thumbs, as the founders (mostly Bombay based Industrialists) decided to accept the invitation (with no strings attached) of Chandrababu Naidu to establish it in Hyderabad.

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Just my 2 cents on Jinnah-Advani-Jaswant…

Whatever Jinnah said in his so-called secular speech means nothing when you look at his utterance before 1947.
- He threatened civil war if pakistan demand is not accepted.
- Direct action day was one such blackmail tactic.
- He always considered hindus and muslims as two separate nations with two different religion, two different culture, totally different heroes blah blah..

I consider him ideological father of all Islamic terrorist in indian continent. In fact it would not be off the mark if we call him first terrorist of undivided India in 19th century.

Now coming to certificate given by Advani on Jinnah, there are many factors behind why he uttered those words for murderous Jinnah-
1. He was visiting pakistan who has accused him of plotting Jinnah’s murder in 1947 just few years back. He praised Jinnah to get rid of that tag.
2. Secondly he was in his home-state of Sindh where he grew up..He got emotional and made stupid remarks.
3. He reminded pakistanis that Jinnah (although deceitful) wanted pakistan to be a modern state where religion will be irrelevant. He thought this may spark a debate in pakistan on secularim but pakistanis being shameless (an example Ravi here) chose to ignore his speech.
4. Advani thought by praising Jinnah, he may win some brownie points in Indian muslim community. It is true that many Indian muslims privately live and breathe pakistan but when it comes to voting they are smart.

According to me Advani is politician of the past not the future..He should quietly retire and fade away from scene.

Jaswant Singh too is in Advani mould and I guess he was feeling neglected in BJP.

In the present time Jinnah means nothing both in India as well as pakistan. It is time we start concentrating of true leaders of pakistan such as Hafiz Sayeed.

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Caption on a Pak TV program
“Ek taraf Umricca, doosray taraf Haqanni,
Kya karay bechara Pakistani ? “

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@Sanjay
Pakistan has attacked Indian embassy in Kabul two times, killing Indian personnel. USA has taken the unusual step of publicly informing India that the terrorists that attacked Indian embassy were in contact with ISI.
So what has India done ?
Nothing.
In Fact India is embaressed when USA informs it so publicly because the Indian government considers itself impotent to take any retributive measure. India certainly has options like financing the poor Baluchis who are fighting a most brutal crakdown from Pakistan. Not a single Baluch leader that opposes Pakistan is alive in Baluchistan. They get killed and there body dumnped on streets. In contrast every Kashmiri leader from Geelani to Malik who oppose Indian in Kashmir, have been protected by the state.
Thugs don’t see the difference between democratic India and the most vile, criminal entity of Pakistan.

Anyway, now that USA has publicly accused ISI of supporting attack on US consulate in Kabul, it will be interesting to see if USA too is as impotent as India in dealing with this incorrigibly criminal entity called Pakistan.

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I agree with most of Rajeev’s points- edited-’ Now coming to certificate given by Advani on Jinnah, many factors -

1. He was visiting pakistan who had accused him of plotting Jinnah’s murder
2. He reminded pakistanis that Jinnah wanted pakistan to be a modern state where religion will be irrelevant.
3. Advani thought by praising Jinnah, he may win some brownie points in Indian muslim community. ‘
————————————–
can I add 4. Godhra- Gujrat

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rajiiiv and everyone says-
‘ BJP and Jaswant lost the argument when they panicked and escorted the 3 terrorists to Kabul following Kandhar hijacking. ‘

Can I diagree- the lives of 150 passengers were at stake, in a foreign lawless land with Taleban in charge- and it was not a bluff, the passengers could easily have been killed and India could have done sweet f all.

Very very difficult decision, very hard bargaining, only 3 terrorists released. I think I would have done the same. Remember this was 1999, pre 911 before US swung to our side. We were reeling under Kashmir terror, no end in sight…

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Advani and Jinnah… and Modi!

Advani is a politican whose time has gone. But I hink his predicament on visiting Sindh was the same as that of Modi being offered a religious cap.

I think Modi should have worn the Muslim cap just to show his solidarity.

While Advani could have gone slow on jinnah, even though his intention probably wa to tell them that jinnah would not have been in favour fo Traliban and LeT but would have chosen a liberal modern government which had place for other religions.

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By the way… where is Vijay Kumar. His blogging got me to this place, as that of many of you guys…

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One said : Hindus and Muslims are like my two eyes.
Other said : Hindus worship cows which I would like to eat.

One said : India would be divided over my dead body.
Other said : I would have India divided or destroyed.

One faught for communal harmony and unity.
The other saw opportunity in communal hatred, murder, carnage just as the vultures who fed on the dead bodies on the streets of Calcutta following Jinnah’s direct action.

Yes Jinnah’s lust for power ended in politics of a communal mass murderer and no wonder the nation his evel ideology spawned is vilest of all entities. Its an entity who operative ideology, like that of his hero, is fraud, deceit and duplicity.

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Balls the trolls , AYESHA JALAL is of AMERICAN NATIONALITY, all her studies were in american colleges. She dedicates her book to her TUTOR at cambridge, a bengalee bhadrolok ,and her immeasurable debt to Prof Sugata Bose , another bhadrolok , directly related to Netaji Subhas Bose.
Then what’s the point in talking to a TROLL

[Reply]

@ Rajiiv

I think in the end the partition was good for all of us. The parts and the ideology which was perrpetually violent is no longer part of us.

In the end we may need to thank jinnah for this. I can’t see how an Akhand bharat… !! A partitioned Bharat seems a better preposition.

[Reply]

MY TWO PENNY OPERA(in response to two pence , also exchange rate is 100 pence will fetch 164 cents.

JINNAH made a will to donate substantial amount of money to Aligarh university and BOMBAY UNIVERSITY(yes you are reading it correct , his alma mater)
HE DID NOT CHANGE HIS WILL TILL HIS DEATH

[Reply]

Too many ii’s don’t improve perception. For that one has to lighten the mind

मेरे हमनफस, मेरे हमनवा, मुझे दोस्त बन के दगा न दे
मैं हूँ दर्द-ऐ-इश्क से जान-वलब, मुझे ज़िन्दगी की दुआ न दे

मेरे दाग़-ऐ-दिल से है रौशनी, इसी रौशनी से है ज़िन्दगी
मुझे डर है ऐ मेरे चारागर, यह चिराग तू ही बुझा न दे

मुझे ऐ छोढ़ दे मेरे हाल पर, तेरा क्या भरोसा है चारागर
यह तेरी नवाजिश-ऐ-मुख़्तसर, मेरा दर्द और बड़ा न दे

मेरा अजम इतना बुलंद है, के पराये शोलों का डर नहीं
मुझे खौफ आतिश-ऐ-गुल से है, यह कहीं चमन को जला न दे

वोह उठें हैं लेके होम-ओ-सुबू, अरे ओ ‘शकील’ कहाँ हैं तू
तेरा जाम लेने को बज़्म में कोई और हाथ बड़ा न दे!

[Reply]

Sorry DISGSTING Shan, u do NOT get away so easy. Ayesha Jalal was a pakistani who migrated to US, you did not know that and are now trying to hide yr mistake by calling her american. Pathetic, sickening
Like your LIES about= teachers and urologists in Uk, bengal GDP, and total ignorance of farming subsidy of 60 billion euros. Dont mind yr being IGNORANT allatime, it is yr cheap boasts and meaningless verbosity tbat raises my Bp.
She married Netaji,s grand nephew who helped her in her battle against Hindujas, another fact u did NOT know, u smelly cockroach

[Reply]

Shan

Your post of 20 hrs ago on TWO TOPICS.
Jinnah and the US response to pakistan.

Was a delight to read and so very true.

Ravi

[Reply]

Vote no 2
should Modi have worn the muslim cap=
Gopi says, no
SAnjay mittal says yes
what do u say
pl vote

[Reply]

This a riposte to the RABID DOGS of FAKE NATIONALISM
This is from Ayesha Jalal’s book “The Sole Spokesman”
Quote: Anxious to forge a common nationalist front against the british , jinnah joined the congress and regularly attended its anual gatherings.
it was jinnah who persuaded the league and the congress to agree upon a common scheme of reforms.
At the league’s Lucknow conference jinnah confessed that he had always been a STAUNCH CONGRESSMAN AND HAD NO LOVE FOR SECTARIAN CRIES.
UNQUOTE

Some More
Gandhi’s captured the congress in 1920 with the help of pro khilafat Muslims.
By declaring support for Khilafat , gandhi secured the allegiance of an impressive array of Muslim Ulema . The fusion of religion and politics had left Jinnah cold in the wings.
HE DENOUNCED GANDHI FOR CAUSING SCHISM , not only Hindus and Muslims , but between hindus and Hindus and Muslims and Muslims.

Congress and Muslim polity in 1935-1940 , was exactly like BJP and MUSLIMS 2010.
BJP goes on with the same mantra , as modi did recently “we do not make distinction between hindus and muslims , ALL SAME IN YOUR EYES.
Is it really HOW ABOUT THE SKULL CAP , HOW ABOUT A MUSLIM HEAD OF BJP
HOW ABOUT TOGADIA asking Muslims to give genetic evidence of Indian stock.
Hypocrisy and opinion is one thing rational analysis is another.

[Reply]

simple Indian humour at its best-

Baap- Agar Tu Phir Exam me fail hua to Mujhe Papa Mat Bolna

After Exam

Baap:-How Is Ur Result?

Son:- Dimag ka Dahi mat kar Ramlal, tune Baap Hone ka Haq kho diya..!!

[Reply]

ARE JEWS A RACE
Another pathetic lie of DR SHAN exposed. The idiot said on Zias blog that Jews are a separate race. Rabba merey, the moron comes out with one lie after another.
It is well known that in US and Europe jews have loved to call themseves a race to come under Race relation act to prevent themselves better. But that is politics.

EVEN A 8 YEAR OLD KNOWS THAT JEWS COME FROM DIFFERENT RACES AND NATIONALITIES. Ashkenazi jews are from Europe and Sephardic jews are from Middle east. You have jews from russia, india, africa.

There r geneyic differences in various jews and some illnesses are more common insome groups. There was program on National geographic about that. Now watch as SHAN distracts, confuses, writes long meaningless posts !!! THIS IS GETTING TOO REPETIVE SHAN, your lies are giving me Bp. IMBECILE

[Reply]

Vote, Who thinks Balwinder has only one ******* , his mouth doubles as his a r s e.
JEWS ARE A RACE , they all originate from Israel , son Of Abraham , then they left
THE DIASPORA , and spread all over the world, the lost tribe ,have you ever heard of that . Different Jews are different TRIBES , but RACE non the less , SEMITIC RACE, who originally came from near Tigris and Euphrates

[Reply]

Friends,

here is a poser for all our doctor firends and also others. Here is a desperate father on FB, who wants to know.

Shivaprakash Nair is an MBA, working as Development Manager for 2Y group of companies.

Two years back, to be precise , october 2009, my 6 year old daughter , Rishha lost all her hair from her body within a fortnight. The case was diagnosed to be Alopecia Totalis where the auto immune system does not allow the hair to grow. only remedy is found to be injections of steroids/ crotisone. However , the effect is temporary and will have side effects especially considering her age. Have tried homeo pathy and checked with various docs over the past 2 years but have not made even a slight progress towards her cure. Fankly, her treatment is now in a standstill and we dont know what further steps to take. Hence, Would request all my friends to let me know the contact details of anyone you know who had faced similar problem and got it cured ? i dont want names of docs and do trial / error experiments on my child. if you do not know anyone, can you just post this message on your wall so that your friends can further forward it till we find someone who has undergone similar problem and solved it without injections.

[Reply]

Gopi-
Read your response to what India should have done when our plane was hijacked. I sort of agree.

What is your opinion about US using atom bomb to end WW 2? And your opinion on US invading “terrorist countries”?

[Reply]

To All and Mr Sharma

Please bar Engrich from this blog ..he is RamAutar under a different name. He drove away the participators in Zia’s blog (there used to be 800-900 opinions, now it is around 40-50 only, with half of it still from Engrich vomiting about Jews and Brahmins).

This blog will go Zia’ way if Engrich is not banned.

[Reply]

Completely agree with shoeb.
Dear Vinodji
………DEAR VINODJI
your blog your choice
……Pl you ban engrich alias tajender aka ramavtar

[Reply]

This blog is currently under attack from a pak-autar, a mlechha and there promoter a dirty self-appointed defender of the most vile. Please avoid contact.

[Reply]

Shoeb

You wrote
“Manohar, Just for an argument sake; if there is solid proof (titles/land records) that these mosques were built on temple land, and if some of these mosques are not active; what should be the problem in reverting these non-active mosques that are built on temple land (there have to be irrefutable proof)”

1) Good that you use the word – If

2) Solid Proof? – If they have it (otherwise then they should shut -up) , then they should have approached the courts long ago in the jurisdiction concerned for each of the mosques. That the fact they have not, shows there is no proof, ,just dubious claims or manufactured evidence and want the Muslim community to the generous to the fault and hand over these places peacefully. Ask the RSS/VHP, as to why haven’t they filed suits in the courts? In case of Babri Masjid title suit case – they had said they would not accept the verdict it it went against them.

Where is the “solid” proof even in the case of Babri Masjid? They tried to buttress their case by claiming that it is the belief of Hindus (actually Hindutvawadis) that Ram was born on the same spot – no proof, just belief. Moreover, Buddhists claim that below the supposed Ram temple (under the Babri Masjid) was built after destroying a Buddhist temple.

Because they do not have solid proof – they want the parliament to pass a law so that there claims can have a legal backing.

How far back in time can we keep going to undo the supposed or real historical “wrongs”?

In 2003, the RSS/VHP threatened the Muslims – hand over the entire Barbri Masjid land or we will claim thousands more mosques.

On a larger note, the rightful place of Ram or of any God is in one’s heart and not in some “grand temples”.

The Supreme Court has already expressed its displeasure about the convoluted decision of the Allahabad High Court.

The fact, this is part of the larger game plans of the RSS propaganda via falsehoods, lies and untruths. Rewriting history to suit their sinister agenda is one.

3) I have no idea as how many of these mosques are non-active or active, but that is not the point at all.

[Reply]

US-born radical Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, a key al-Qaeda leader, has been killed in Yemen, the country’s defence ministry said.

I am glad.

[Reply]

Justice at last

India abuse: Scores guilty of Dalit rape and torture

Seventeen officials were found guilty of rape and the rest were convicted of “atrocities against Dalits”.

Source the BBC

[Reply]

@Ravi
So whats your point ? You look for news of any crimes committed and if the victim is dalit post it here ? I have shown you statistically that incidence of rape on dalit is in same percentage of their population as the incidense of rape on non-dalits.

Do we have a news item like Brahmin girl raped , or kshatriya girl raped ?
Why is the caste important only when the victim is a so called dalit ?
What about of the caste of the perpetrators ? How many of them were dalit ?
Does it even matter when the courts and the judicial system punishes people irrespective of their caste ? Do we have news item like ‘A dalit caught stealing’ or ‘a dalit caught cheating or a dalit charged with murder ?

Would that not be a pathetic way of reporting news ?

Why are you so interested in the caste of the victim , only when the victim is dalit ?
Is that just because it fits into your anti-India, anti-Hindu propoganda here ?
You certainly are more sick and dirty than I thought.

The fact that the perpetrators of the crime were not protected but prosecuted and punished by the state is the most important part of the news. If the perpetrators were protected just because the victims were dalit then it would be a outrageous news.

If you want to speak against state sponsored criminality and state ideology inspired discrimination , then talk about Pakistan that you often defend here where the state itself is the criminal and promotes criminality and oppression through constitutional methods. Where the entire state is a criminal.

There is hardly any difference between the dirty pakistani Ram avatar , who searches the internet for anti-India, anti-Hindu stuff and posts it here and you.

The more you post such stuff , the more you show your true colors and prove that every word that I and many others have used to define you and your motivations is correct. You deserve every scorn and derision that is heaped on you.

Please keep doing so and proving me right.

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a Pakiatni american. Samir Khan, 24 yr old, propaganda chief for Awlaki, was also killed in the raid..
Samir Khan apparently had jehadi blogs propagating awalki’s violent message…
He is connected with some sh–tty org in Pak called Tanzil-e-Islam (???)

[Reply]

———————————————————————————————————————–
~~~ ~~ VIJAY KUMAR KA DOSTON KO SALAAM ~~~ ~~~~~
——————————————————————————————————————

Well was off blogging as was caught up in an intercity assignment. But… I missed this blog !! Thanks to all the friends who remebered me… especially Gopi, Mohan and Sanjay who mentioned my name here.

Just here for a short take… on my old Pal Ravi

O Ravi Bhaiya… the return of T U R D Tajendar in the new form of Engrich seems to have given you Viagra.

Lagda hai Engrich di bhasha vichon
T U R D Tajendar chattiyan maare,
Sialkoti Ravi hun rape rape karre ishare’

——————————————————

Ravi you old f a r t your nemisis is back again
All your rape fantasies are going down the drain

An ISI fundoo you have become
Just watch out, drones over your head,
May anytime come ….

And at least on this blog
be prepared to live the life of a dog !!

Hahaha hAA HA !!

Just needed this shot of humour to get my head rocking again…

[Reply]

Pakistani definition : Please note that the word can be used to define anyone who is a fraud, a criminal, a thug and deceitful. Just as USA now claims to be finding out. Its someone who finds excuses for the entity born out of Jinnah’s communal hate and has gone on to commit genocide on minorities and then sanctified its criminal conduct in the constitution.

The Pakistani exhibits many symptoms and like the stench of garbage, cannot be masked. The symptoms include searching the internet for any anit-India, anti-Hindu news item and then posting it. The Pakistanis break into a frenzied rapture when ever a news items appears where the victim happens to be a dalit. That news item then is posted whereever they can.
You don’t have to be a Pakistani passport holder to be awarded that honor.

[Reply]

WORLD PUNJABI ORG”””””””’

Guest of Indian embassy this week and got taken to the annual dinner of this org- my first time. At Marriot Grosvenor Square.

Multi millionaire Avtar Lit of Sunrise radio got ‘The jewel of Punjab award’- slightly odd character. In the midst of it all I thought of dear old Vijay and Balwinder praaji- our resident Punjabis.

It was heart warming to see the strength of the Indian community in general and Punjabi community in particular. Lord Dholakia on stage. He made a brilliant speech as usual- full of swaabhimaan.Gently he reminded everyone of the UK riots in which there were NO INDIANS.

Andrew Mitchell, Minister for International development was full of praise for the Indian community. Which brings me to the next point- STOP FIGHTING BLOGGERS.

If this blog descends into Zia’s blog’s chaos- with ravi and ramavtar-egerich hurling filth at hindu gods and some others doing the same on Islam, then I am out off here. Nice knowing you all.

[Reply]

It has been a tradition that all foreign head of state visit Rajghat…it was only Saudi king who refused to do that.
I may not consider Gandhi god or Prophet Mohammad but that doesn’t mean I can not see insult to India by Saudi king.

[Reply]

Now that Tajender is back, our Ravi has started Turr-Turr like a Islamic frog…Manohar as usual ignorant is playing as ravi’s sidekick.

[Reply]

I really liked Manohar’s big lecture to hindus that God exists in heart…I’d appreciate if he can preach same to Islamic fundoos who have converted many temples to mosque..One of them being Kaaba itself.

[Reply]

It looks like that there is a panic among many of the bloggers, with the advent of Engrich or whoever he may be and there are constant requests to Vinodji to ban him. Probably, his posts are causing extreme discomfort to these bloggers and who probably do not know how to counter or demolish his arguments (I am guessing). Wonder why they feel so threatened by his presence?

Earlier, I had suggested (and I am not preaching), is to simply ignore his posts (as I do), then probably he would stop posting.

As I understand, this blog now is under constant moderation, if he goes overboard the moderator would step-in. So why the panic?

[Reply]

Dear Manohar
Sorry having said goodbye, I feel compelled to come back and say a few things.

As many have said here before, the actions of the Saudi royals can be unfriendly and backward, not only in India but even here in the UK. We should be proud that we do not behave like that when we go out.So at best we can grit our teeth and ignore them- lakhs ? of Indians work in the KSA and these remittances are important.

Sorry, the analogy of a guest not eating non veg food just did not work. Muslims and Jews would not eat pork and I would never eat non veg- this is completely natural for us. However, for the Saudis to not visit Rajghat is boorish.

Here in UK, the best private Saudi school was still teaching that Jews and kaffirs were pigs as recent as 2009 till caught by a sting operation. My Pakistani friend who went on a haj recently came back boiling with rage at the disciminatory attitudes of MOST saudis he met- whether at the airport or even at 5 star hotels when he went travelling after haj, even from the receptionists.

My private patients from Saudi often display a contemptuous disregard for the evils of Wahabism that they willingly export around the world

[Reply]

Shenoy

You responded in another thread below

“Modi had sent a list of 3 ex-chief justices to the governor, none of whom the governor liked.

He had called the opposition leader for consultation and consensus, but the LOP abstained from attending any of these meetings.

The governor went over the head of the CM and consulted the attorney general of India, which was patently unconstitutional. She appointed Desai because Desai was very much liked by Teesta Setalvad. He has also the reputation of being a sympathiser of some of the virulently anti-Modi NGOs, which is why his appointment, ultra-virus as it is, is being opposed by Modi government.

The fact that the MMS government is contemplating recall of the Lokayukta unofficially itself is proof that Modi is right in his constitutional position. ”

—————-

I knew you could not have done better than this. Full of lies, falsehoods, untruths (take you pick), but I will give you a chance.

1) “The governor went over the head of the CM and consulted the attorney general of India, which was patently unconstitutional”

Will you care to enlighten the rest, as to under which Government Rules and Laws or the Indian Penal Code, the Governor is not entitled to consult the Attorney General or for that matter anyone else? Or is there a special law enacted by Modi for the Governor of Gujarat? “Thou shalt not consult the Attorney General or anyone else”. I am always ready to learn.

2) You do not even know the name of the person who has been appointed. For your information – it is Justice R A Mehta not some Mr. Desai. If you want spread canards and lies, try and make them more convincing by checking and rechecking some facts, but then I must be expecting too much from you – facts do not gel with lies, ….

Also the cat is out of the bag – Teesta Setvalvad liked the appointment and Justice Mehta is sympathiser of some anti-Modi NGOs. Since when Teesta Setalvad has become so powerful and influential that her opinion/approval is sought, before someone is appointed? Does being sympathiser of anti-Modi NGOs disqualify the person from being appointed Lokayukta? Can you quote the relevant Government Rules and Laws or the Indian Penal Code or the Gujarat Lokayukta Act, 1986 in support of your assertion.

The other point you are overlooking or more likely ignorant about is that there are two other members of the selection committee – the Speaker of the Assembly and the Chief Justice of Gujarat High Court.

These points are sufficient for me to throw your entire defence of Modi out of the window. Now all I have to do is to wait and see how many of your supposed “fans and chelas” come to your rescue on this.

[Reply]

Earlier there was a discussion of whether Modi should have worn the cap offered to
him or not. The person who offered him this cap later in any interview said that
Modi had insulted Islam by not wearing the cap. Does the prestige if Islam
lie in a mere skull cap ?

[Reply]

Manohar,

Few days back you had said that Modi should appoligize for Gujarat riots as
asking for forgiveness is divine. And now you have compared Saudi Kings
refusal to visit Rajghat with a vegeterian gueast. In both instances you have compared the action of a leader with an individual. Any leader in private can
do anything he wants but when he is in public he will act differently. If Modi
had appoligized for the riots everyone would have said that he is admited his fault.
And any leader visitng another nation should respect her traditions, sacred places etc. Recently before going to Bangladesh our PM – a strick vegeterian – said that
he will try Hilsa a non veg traditional dish of Bangladesh .

[Reply]

Manohar,

Few days back you had said that Modi should appoligize for Gujarat riots as
asking for forgiveness is divine. And now you have compared Saudi Kings
refusal to visit Rajghat with a vegeterian gueast. In both instances you have compared the action of a leader with an individual. Any leader in private as an individual can
do anything he wants but when he is in public he will act differently. If Modi
had appoligized for the riots everyone would have said that he has admited his fault.
And any leader visitng another nation should respect her traditions, sacred places etc. Recently before going to Bangladesh our PM – a strick vegeterian – said that
he will try Hilsa a non veg traditional dish of Bangladesh Such should be an action of a leader.

[Reply]

Pranab Mukerjea the FM of India states that Note on 2G was prepared by the officers of the Ministry and did not have his Approval. So what action is now proposed to be taken against that Dy Director of his Ministry who falsely stated that” Seen by the Finance Minister “. Which obviously means that the Minister has seen and not disagreed or objected to the contents therein.
If Ministers start disowning official notings like this , government functioning can get seriously hampered as Officials shall not move till a positive affirmation or objection is noted by the Minister . So serving officers should better watch out … they can land up in serious trouble as it appears that Ministers nowadays are willing to sacrifice their moral courage to save their skins..
The only remedy lies in SC intervening and asking for Personal Affidavits from all Officers who represented the different Ministries , PMO , former Cabinet Secretary and whose combined efforts resulted in the finalization of that Note.
It appears that this Government is setting new standards every day in mistatements, falsification , misrepresentataion to hide its misdeeds.

[Reply]

Mishra and his poodle balwinder , this from wikipedia

According to the Hebrew Bible, all Israelites were descended from Abraham, who was born in the Sumerian city of Ur, and migrated to Canaan (commonly known as the
Land of Israel) with his family. Genetic studies on Jews show that most Jews worldwide do indeed bear a common genetic heritage which originates in the Middle East, and that they bear their strongest resemblance to the peoples of the Fertile Crescent, with only minor contribution from their host populations[15] (historically due to the taboo on intermarriage in Jewish tradition, the low number of converts to Judaism,

As for Tay sachs disease ,limited reading mishra should know , Thallasaemis trait mutation in genes devolopes in people living in areas with High incidence of malaria . They are resistant to malaria , this is nature’s way of protecting the population being wiped out.the problem arises when two thallasemia trait people marry each other ,
The children has 1in 4 chance of devoloping Full Blown Thalassemia.
Similarly that Tay sach devolopes in one group does not invalidate anything ALSO JEWS USED TO HAVE A LOT OF INBREEDING. In fact the Book MISNAH is nothing but a primer in setting out the laws as WHO CAN HAVE SEX WITH WHOM
Eg, UNCLE with his brother’s daughter etc.

[Reply]

Did the Bramhinical pack and the swabhimaaan up yours posterior brigade
WATCH YESTERDAY , THE DOCUMENTARY IN NDTV TITLED
“HUNGRY KYA.”
Post script , it was about India 2011 NOT BENGAL FAMINE 1943
GROVESENOR MARRIOT PUNJABIS hope you were able to digest your kulchaNaan
and tarka Daal.

[Reply]

Coming back to the jist of this attack on Waziristan/Haquani blog..

Chidambaram reported that we (India) know where Dawood is, but they (Pak) wouldnt allow us to get to him — something to this effect.
I was at a loss. If RAW knew where he was, couldnt they pick him up (I know there are logistical issues; but doesnt CIA pick up “parties of interest”?)..If they cannot transport him, couldnt they just kill him? Are we signatories of some UN cr— that we cannot hunt and kill our enemies?

[Reply]

Kudos to the “efficiency” of Pakistan judicial system–

The killer of Salman Taseer, ex Pakistan Punjab governor, has been found guilty and sentenced to death. Pak judiciary should be congratulated for the fast proceedings.
We here are still lawyering the terrorist cases of 10-15 years ago.
Justice delayed is justice denied.

[Reply]

Coming back to Wasirstan, Haqquani–subject of this blog-

Several terrorist connections with Pakistan revealed last week “got lost” in the coverage of US/Pak tension-

5 or six Pakisatnis were arrested last week in Birmingham, UK for terrorist activities –all or most of them were trained in Pak terror camps.

One **** (Samer Khan?) was killed in the drone attack on Al Awlaki. This 24 yr old Pakistani was Al Awlaki’s media man.

Any action by US on Haquani network or on Pakistan is bound to create terrorist actions against us. Pakistan already may have Islamists here ready to trigger.

Chidambaram’s complaint will be “they did not let us know”.

[Reply]

Well said my friend

[Reply]

The rabid and vicious invectives used against the saudi king’s refusal to visit rajghat , only reveals How ignorant and pig headed “some” bloggers are.
This is because Saudi beleives in a particular brand of islam , which says you only show respect to GOD. The same king will not show deference to the founder of Saudi Kingdom , Bin Aziz Saud, infact there are no massoluem in his honour.
That doesn’t mean saudi king has shown disrespect , in fact he will probably give some small change to tune of 100 millions for Gandhi research centre.
When the last saudi king died , his body was taken in the middle of nowhere in a desert , and buried. Nobody will be able to identify now where he is buried.
NOT EVERYTHING IS BAD WITH WAHABIS.

[Reply]

@Ravi, The jews from Manipur , who got the right to settle in Israel are a DODGY lot. Apparently some of their ritual is similar to the biblilical jews. Thus the assumption.There is not a great deal more to go about.
There are some in Maharashtra who came 2000yrs ago, and some in Kerala. There were a sizable jewish population in Calcutta . I HAVE MET THREE PATIENTS IN LONDON ALL FROM CALCUTTA, where there still stands a synagogue and a Jewish girls school.. Though jews in India are not given due importance by the World congress of Jewry.

[Reply]

—————————————————————————————————————————-
~ CONGRESS GESTAPO AT WORK !! DIGVINASH SINGH TARGETS BLOGGERS~
—————————————————————————————————————————–

THE Congress is now following the Nazi and Pakistani saga of hounding dissent through use of state police and CBI. Twitter and Facebook messages of people
who do not agree with Digvijay have been used to file CASES against them. Police and Gestapo power is being used to destroy dissent and build up a Nazi saga.

The whole story is being twisted to make it sound like hate mail !

Read this in NDTV.

New Delhi: Delhi Police have registered a case against 22 people for sending hate mails against Congress general secretary Digvijaya Singh, who has alleged an attempt at tarnishing his image on social networking sites, police said on Friday.

“After a month of probe, we registered a case yesterday (Thursday) under the Information Technology Act and initiated verification of the 22 people,” said a police officer.

“We will give notices to various social networking websites to remove all the insulting contents and pictures,” said the officer.

Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/22-booked-for-sending-hate-mails-against-digvijaya-singh-137819?pfrom=home-otherstories&cp

[Reply]

@ Vinod Sharma

Some months back you used the information provided by Amar SIngh and Digvijay Singh to write an expose which was used to attack the anti corruption movement.

Today, Amar SIngh is running away from jail by using an ailment as an exxcuse. And Digvijay SIngh has even gone to the extent of filing fake cases against people who do not agree with him.

Do you see both of them exposed now? Or would you agree with their stance?

[Reply]

—————————————————————————————————————————
~~ BOOK LAUNCH !! of the THREE FUNDOO ‘ S ~~~~~
—————————————————————————————————————————–

I was long searching for a story for a book. I think I have found it. Here is a precis’

Dole holder Ravi had a plan,
How to fool the UK government
And get some extra jam

I’ll work for the ISI, Ravi planned
Truth, morality and India
Let it be Damned

He joined T U R D Tajendar
roped in Engrich
The plan was to spread fundmantalism
And somehow get rich !

On the internet,
they bumped into VijayKumar
who needed a story plot
The THREE FUNDOOS,
The book is now called !!
Ha ha ha

[Reply]

दो मुआ सांप.
Do Muha Sanp (Binoy just for you)
Two Faced Snake

The snake charmer who frequented my childhood street, would often show a two faced snake. As children, not knowing any better, we accepted it as a fascinating aberration of nature.

We now know, to fool any adventurous predator, some snakes have eyes like markings on their tail. In jungle these markings may have fooled a predator, in urban environment they fired up our over active imagination. We made ourselves believe that the snake could move both forwards and backwards, or vice a versa.

The charmer’s commentary that accompanied the show, mentioned that such snakes were abundantly available in Nagpur (pun intended). Indeed it was rumoured that a veterinary surgeon was so good, that he was able to take two normal snakes and convert them into one do muha snake (दो मुआ सांप)

Not so long ago, two snakes, both (आस्तीन का सांप ), One called Shenoy and the other Vijay, were conjoined into a single conjugating whole, the result was a self procreating दो मुआ सांप. The process finished with one funny flaw, it gave venom to one mouth and fangs to the other, thereby making both ends ineffective.

A repeat of the process is planned over the next few days, one can already see TWO eager snakes, amorously weighing each other, with a map of NAGpur in their hand.

I wish them luck
Being a conjugating whole
They no longer have a need to XXXK

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Manohar-

I did not mean that Nehru literally destroyed Air India – the nationalization (done by Nehru) did it..JRD was running it profitably, why was the rush to nationalize as if it was the number one issue facing India? Nehru should have put govt money and started a new airline if he felt ashamed that the new nation did not have a state owned (???why??) flag carrier. (USA does not have, so also many other countries .. may be his awe of Britain must have made him to own Air India — I think British Airways was a UK govt owned entity at that time)

Well, this blog is about Wazirstan, what should US do to control Haqqnis, and what will be the impact of all these..So, let us hold on to economics, sovereign vs individual entrepreneurship etc for another occasion.

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A Note for those who were discussing Modi’s wearing of Skull Cap.
A perfectly Onionesque moment would be when Modi wears the Skull Cap followed by his waving of hands with his palms exposed in full view of Camera, shouting and laughing hysterically – look all no more blood. The willing Mullahs performing chorus of “Waah Waah Modiji” in the background.
p.s.: For those not in know “The Onion” (http://www.theonion.com/) happens to be a very popular American online Satire magazine. The word “Onionesque” here relates to Onion magazine.
p.p.s.: Did we notice the arrest of Sanjeev Bhatt ?

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Pakistani army has conditioned its people as to who its perceived enemies are (vs real enemies).
The reason for non-action against Haqquani etc is quite evident from the Pew Poll results Hegde referenced to. 57% Pakistanis believe India is a bigger threat than terrorists; 75% distrust Indians, and only 35% want army to tackle terrorists..

That means we may worry about terrorism there. They do not care at all..Their focus is India..They protect Haqquani etc to use against India…period.

Indians better be careful and be demanding of their leaders, and if need be throw the leaders away and try new leadership.. for Paksitanis in their desperation, will fulfill what Jinnah said 65 years ago. he said in 1946 either India be divided or India be destroyed. he got India divided; and now his followers will fulfill his other alternative of destruction.

Let us not be buddy/buddy and sympathetic; they really believe in harming us, rather than worrying about how terrorism is harming them..

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Shan,
You are as usual using abuses to sound correct. I have proved you wrong on many occasion..Here is one more. There is tomb of Mohammad in Medina which is revered by every muslim on this earth including Saudi king. Unofficially Allah seems to be an aide of Mohammad if you read from neutral sources. If they can show respect to Mohammad then why not Gandhi.

You should also know that Indian being very very sensitive of Saudi religious fundamentalism always sends a muslim ambassador to that country.

Can you explain why in this modern age Mecca is forbidden for non-muslims? Now come up with some abuse and play on the tunes of Jehadi Ravi and his corrupt chamchas.

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It is part of protocol for all visiting foreign head of states to visit Rajghat…I am surprised that congressis (now dalals) are not aware of this.

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Manohar_T (Shan will call your T tatti…but I won’t),
If you think I am someone’s sidekick then you must be high on drugs…I never defend anyone..I have infact defended Shan many times when he was cornered for abuses..I believe in justice..If a moron like you need my protection, I’ll provide you.

But you being a corrupt congressi can never behave like normal..Now go and take care of your ***** ravi.

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Ravi,
You have a history of leaning on others..You do it with Vinod, Tajender, Shan, Manohar, Prabhat and whosoever comes on this forum…Always begging for support like a roadside prostitute. You are just like pakistan..a ***** willing to sleep with anyone for protection. You hide behind idiots like Manohar because you are exposed again and again by almost everyone.
Manohar being corrupt moron has no other choice because he is allergic to word hindu..He thinks anyone opposing congress has to be a hindutvavadi…To me he is basically BIN-Paindi ka lota…A total a$$hole..

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Rationalist SHan,
Here is the true face of Saudi Arabia…land of milk and honey as proclaimed by terrorist Ravi and his cutomers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14190470

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This is for terrorist Ravi and his customer..India still has good muslims who don’t make excuses for vile Saudi king..

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?278508
Those City Ravanas
A unique Ramlila, organised and acted out by Muslims, won’t be held this year
NAMRATA JOSHI

The Ramlila at Baxi Ka Talaab in Lucknow has seen Ram, Sita and others played by Muslims
This year, for the first time in 39 years, the BKT Ramlila is unlikely to be held
Rising costs, reorganisation of villages and local politics has stalled this model of harmony
The BKT Ramlila had taken place without incident even in the year of the Babri demolition
***

Sarvar and Salman Raza, students of commerce at Lucknow’s Shia PG College, have significantly disparate aims. Sarvar wants to join the army; Salman dreams of becoming a film star, although he hastens to clarify that his idol isn’t his Bollywood namesake but Ranbir Kapoor. For now, however, what’s working up the two brothers is not the rosy future they dream of but the disquieting present: a unique 39-year-old Ramlila in Lucknow in which Sarvar and Salman have played Ram and Lakshman for four years may not take place this year. “It’s heartbreaking to think a slice of our history may end,” says Sarvar. And Salman, “It hurts to know we might lose a vital part of us.”

What they are talking about is the Baxi Ka Talaab Ki Ramlila, also known as the BKT Ramlila, unique for the leading role played by the Muslim community in organising, staging and enacting it. It takes its name from its historic venue on the outskirts of Lucknow, and is organised for three days during a Dussehra mela. Unlike other Ramlilas, it starts with a Shiv Ki Baraat on Dussehra, when other Ramlilas conclude. Muslims are on the organising committee. The main roles—Ram, Lakshman, Sita etc—are played by young Muslim men, all amateurs. Mohammed Shabbir Khan has been the director for 25 years, doubling up for the role of Dashrath too. Ravan has been played for over 20 years by Mohammed Naseem Khan. Indeed, there are other pan-religion Ramlilas (see box), but this one is unique in that its initiators and major drivers are Muslim, even as Hindus too take on roles in it. Hakim Raza Shadaab, an organiser, remembers a year when Ramzan coincided with Dussehra. The Ravan vadh episode was stopped midway, the mike was switched off and the fasting Muslim actors performed iftaar on stage as the audience waited. “They kept their costumes on, but put on skullcaps instead of mukuts during iftaar,” says Ashid Ali, an organiser. After this, the Ramlila continued!

Unfortunately this year, inflation and insidious local politics have sprung up like Ravan’s heads and seem set to bring the curtains down on this unsung celebration of harmony and unity. We meet the core organising team 10 days before Dussehra at Baxi Ka Talaab. The area is teeming with grazing cattle. Mosquitoes buzz in stagnant pools. There’s a stage being erected, but it’s for a Mata ka Jagrata, nightlong prayers for Durga, not for the Ramlila. We encounter despondent faces, bereft of excitement, lost in uneasy resignation. “We used to start months in advance, booking bands, elephants and camels for the procession,” says Shadaab. “It’s too late now.”

So what has gone wrong? The Ramlila faced its first big blow last year when the Hindu-dominated Rudahi and Muslim-dominated Bargadi villages (where the Ramlila originated) along with 12 others were merged with the new BKT town area. With gram panchayats being replaced by a nagar panchayat, the independence to organise the Ramlila locally has gone. Administrative whims have also played a role: last year, the BSP-ruled state government decided to stage its own Ramlila, inviting professionals from Mathura. The local version paled in comparison. “The sanctity of the original was lost,” says Videsh Pal Yadav, who chaired the BKT Ramlila committee from 1991 to 2010. Nirmal Chander, who has made a documentary on the BKT tradition, called Sab Lila Hai, says, “That Ramlila was by outsiders; it was like taking something away from local artistes.” This year, too, the government is organising a huge five-day Ramlila here.

Nakul Dubey, the local MLA and minister for urban development, did promise to support the BKT Ramlila when he attended it last year, but the organising committee isn’t impressed. “Last year, they didn’t provide water, not even home guards,” says Ashid Ali. Expenses were met with donations from shopkeepers of the local weekly market, but Yadav says, “The market now patronises the bigger, sarkari Ramlila.” The organisers have given up, not sure about raising the Rs 5 lakh needed to conduct the Ramlila. “We only want to continue with this honourable tradition, but they think we are rebelling against the administration and the new Ramlila committee,” says Yadav.

The foundation for the BKT Ramlila was laid by Dr Muzaffar Hussain and the then gram pradhan of Rudahi, Maikulal Yadav. No professional actors were hired and that tradition still continues, with untrained young Muslim men playing the key roles. “It’s been a way of nurturing local talent,” says Shadaab. The Ramlila has always attracted huge crowds—over 50,000 people come to watch from nearby towns and villages and have made it an abiding symbol of Hindu-Muslim unity. “It’s an example of harmony and secularism,” says Mohas Das of Mohan Kala Kendra, the town’s oldest and largest costume supplier. “Such practices are more effective in fostering peace than political speeches. It will be shameful for Lucknow to lose such a tradition.”

The organisers are now nursing fond memories of what they had come to love. “The Muslims felt lucky and privileged to participate in the programme,” says Noor Ahmad, who has been involved with the Ramlila from the start. Says Ainul Hussain, a local resident, “Both communities accepted the Ramlila with heart and soul.” Chander speaks of what the tradition had come to signify: “This place is just 120 km from Ayodhya, but the Babri Masjid demolition didn’t affect the Ramlila here.” He hopes the disruption is temporary, and like other organisers, hopes that media reports will bring support and change the fortunes of the BKT Ramlila. “We hope,” say Sarvar and Salman, almost in unison, “this halt is just a comma and not a full stop.”

[Reply]

Ajay Kohli

I felt the heat that came with this well worn cliché.

When I say Saudi, I mean the establishment. No one cares about what the Saudi Public thinks.

As for me disagreeing with those who do not share my world view? What do you do. Do you disagree with people who share your world view. You must be unique.

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rajeev and manohar, pl do lay off each other. Both make interesting contributions.

Rajeev, I am with you on the thoroughly unpleasant aspects of Saudi culture, royalty and wahabism. BUT THE ONLY THING I ASK is that my Indian brothers and sisters, indeed all workers, are treated humanely.

I have said before that Saud king not visiting Rajghat is boorish, but would not make an issue out of it. Time magazine, in its millenial poll across 150 countries in 2000, to find the person of the last century, came up with 1. Mahatma 2. Einstein

I do not, even for one millisecond, worry about not being able to enter Mecca. I am proud that the Swaminarayan temple in Delhi and London allows everyone, as does the Dargah at Ajmer which I have visited.

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Vinod Ji

There have been some petitions submitted to you with regards to banning an individual. The petitioners, to the last person are dyed saffron Hindu Fundo’s who would like to press gang this blog into the service of their one sided rancid hard line Hinduatva agenda.

History suggests that you may be seriously considering banning this individual.

I have previously advised you against a ban and will once again do so. However, if we are on that page, then I suggests that you have a look at the posts made by your favourite “Belcher”.

“Once a belcher, always a belcher”, was a diamond put down.

This belcher’s posts are baseless, full of lies, and he attacks other people based entirely upon imaginary precepts.

आप ही जाना उधर और आप ही हैरान होना

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Shan,
Couple of things .
While there has been a conversion to Buddhism – it has been more among Scheduled Castes and less so in Scheduled Tribes. Socially speaking , Dalits and Tribals are different groups – though both belonging to the underclasses. As much so that even today Caste and tribal origin are good enough social markers in rural India for economically vulnerable groups.
Consequently , one would expect social resistance to adaptation of Pork. Another aspect that needs to be investigated is natual and economic sustainability of subsidised Animal Feed.
That said, my bias still tilts towards improving the conditions of Farming classes – especially the smaller land owners – with well designed economic measures such as well regulated finance availability, crop insurances.
On a related Note – a recent article by P. Sainath in Counterpunch points out migration of farming classes away from farming as a consequence of economic un-certainity.
p.s.: Re-posting as earlier response got drowned somewhere in the overflowing bile here.

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@RajeevS, and Rajiiiiiiv, Guys let me introduce myself professionally.I am a general surgeon of some years of experience , at the moment drifting to urology because urology is less strenous.Now guys I AM NOT AN AVERAGE BLOGGER.My experience in life is ENOROMOUSLY COMPLEX ,than you guys , in marketing software or whatever. MY RELIGION AND MY CREED IS SCIENCE, thus Rational and also I am a Humanist, FOR I HAVE YET TO SEE A RACE IMMUNE FROM CANCER YET TO SEE A RELIGION THAT CAN PROTECT ITS ADHERENTS FROM THE “EMPEROR OF MALADIES”
So why all this Bakwas .
Now Saudi Arabia.
Rather than wasting time on the blog why not do some reading , like Eugene Rogan’s THE ARABS, YOU WILL BE TRANSFORMED.
Even somebody with balwinder’s IQ can make out SAUDI SOCIETY IS STUCK AT YEAR HIZRA ONE, cladded all around by 21st century.
But that business of not defering to anyone except GOD .EXPLAINS THE ROOT CAUSES OF ISLAMIC HEGEMONY FOR 1000 YRS.
That birthplace of prophet in Mecca is a shrine to SHIAS, the saudis look at it with contempt(Source :Eugene Rogan)
This egalitarianism has been the reason why THEY WON BATTLE AFTER BATTLE ,JUST TO PLEASE ALLAH , same the christians used “The Calling”, and the need to respond. HINDUS WERE BUSY WRITTING LAWS OF DEFILEMENT.Same with JEWS , NO WONDER JEWS WERETAKEN SLAVES FOR MILLENIA.
Do you know when the TURKS attacked Constantinopole , they were in a disadvantageous position. The fortress was perched high up the hill and the walls were very very high. So they suffered heavy casualty , UNDETERRED , they piled and stacked the dead bodies one top of another, AND THE CLIMBED OVER THE HIGH WALLS and killed mercilessly.
Now every dog has its day , BAGHDAD WAS SACKED BY HALAKU KHAN , the arabs still cannot forget that.
There was a OPEN PACT between Abdul BIn Aziz Bin Saud and BIn Wahab (the preacher) YOU BRING YOUR FLOCK TO ACCEPTED ME AS KING , I WILL SEE THAT YOUR BRAND OF ISLAM IS THE ONLY OFFICIAL BRAND IN SAUDI.

As for MAID BEATING , PEOPLE LIVING IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES AT OTHER
Bangalore: A Bangalore-based family who recruited a domestic help through a Delhi-based placement agency has been allegedly torturing her for the last two year.

The 20-year-old girl Usha Thopna from Assam was forced to seek employment through this agency when she turned 18. For the last two years, she has been working at the residence of Sandeep and Roski Vats, who allegedly tortured her physically and mentally daily. She had scars on her hands, wounds on her leg and fear and helplessness in her voice. To top this, they are yet to pay her wages.

Sandeep Vats, a software professional and Roski who runs a library for children, do not even allow Usha to interact with neighbours.

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@ Mr Vijay

Your poem on the three Fundoos was really funny !!

Who were the three funddos.

I can identify one– Mr engrich, who is writing nonsense.

The second you have named is obviously Ravi, about whom I have mixed feelings. he puts in some reasonable content. But somehow there is an agenda to insult Hindu feelings…

And the third T U R D Tajendar… is he on the blog also?

Anyway great poem. TYou should write more !

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A Gandhi at Rajghat

Today, Sonia Gandhi visited the Raj Ghat on 142nd Birth Anniversary of the Mahatma.

LK Advani was spotted having a chat with her.

Do we know if the Nagpur gilterrati were present there in their full regalia, complete with a Black Topi and a half mast salute.

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Gopi
You wrote

“Well, this blog is about Wazirstan, what should US do to control Haqqnis, and what will be the impact of all these..So, let us hold on to economics, sovereign vs individual entrepreneurship etc for another occasion”.

Sorry Gopi, was busy taking care of an unruly element here, hence the delayed response.

1) Reports have in come that one of key members of this Haqqani group has been captured by the USA in Afghanistan.

2) The root cause is the ISI and the Pakistani Army (PA) and who have managed to beat the Pakistani political class into submission.

3) Haqqanis is one of the offshoots of the cancer called ISI/PA.

4) Even if the USA manages to eliminate the Haqqanis – with (highly unlikely) or without the help of ISI/PA, nobody knows how many other unknown “assets” the ISI/PA has across the region. They will be activated as and when required.

5) The diabolical ISI/PA may ask the Haqqanis to lie low for sometime or ask them to change its complexion (name, whatever)

So, IMO, nothing is going to change much even if (4) above becomes a reality, unless the ISI/PA are taken care of. How? Now that is a billion dollar question.

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————————————————————————————————–
Here is Ravi, the criminal Pak peddler, Anti-India propogandist , accusing India of Pakistan states’s hatred of India.
This is what he says
————————————————————————————————-

“2. To make ISI and Pakistan Military, realise that India is not an EXISTENTIAL threat. That may require India to suspend its Afghanistan aspirations for a short while. …..”

So India is responsible for Pakistan’s criminality, venality and hatred of india, manifest in numerous terrorist organizations it arms and promotes ?
Regarding Afganistan, so what are India’s sinister ‘aspirations’ that it must suspend to placate the criminal entity of Pakistan born out of Jinnah’s communal hatred ?

India’s policy in Afganistan is simple. India would like to see a non-criminal, non-jihadi, non-terrorist government ( that means non-taliban ) government in Afganistan that cannot play host to hijackers like that of Indian airlines Kandhar hijacking. We dont want Islamic savages promoting terrorist from Kabul. That’s the same goal as rest of the civilized world has. However, to promote India friendly government, India is not sending criminal terrorists or forces into Afganistan like Pakistan does. India is using positive inducements , like financial aid in reconstruction, to promote relatively civilized government in Kabul.

Only a criminal, shameless Pak peddler would argue things like ‘Indis needs to suspend its aspirations’ in Kabul to placate the criminal Pak army/ISI. This is the same fraudulent, propogandist allegation that Pak army/ISI makes against India. This Ravi is the same thug who seems Hindu fundamentalism everywhere but sees problems with India’s policy of favouring non-Taleban, non-Islamic-fundamentalist govt in Kabul.
Only a shameless charlatan and a duplicitious propogandiost would make such an argument.

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Ravi, when I spoke to Manohar, it was man to man.
Please do not butt in from the side like a zenana, from behind a veil.

You are upset with me because I reminded everyone that in the company of ramavtar-engerich-tajender, you had indulged in a week long slugfest with many others which had culminated in your hurling obscenity against bhagwan Ram.

You had subsequently been rebuked by me, Balwinder praaji and others – when they had asked you to leave. You had replied with a single word- ‘ Balwinder, gone ‘

I shall post the exchange in the new blog. Balwinder surely u remember ?

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Today is 2nd October a Gandhi Jayanti. Today morning when I put on my TV
almost all new channels were showing something about Mahatma Gandhi, Surprisingly I did not see on any channel anyone mentioning another great son
of India who was also born on 2nd October. – LAL BAHADUR SHASHTRI -
When I was in school I would always listen to a song on this day which mentions
both these great souls but havent heard this song since very long time.

Aaj hai do october kaa din
aaj ka din hai bara mahaan
aaj ke din do phool khile the
jinse mahaka HINDUSTAN
ek ka naam hai Bapu Gandhi
aur ek Lal Bahadur hai
ek ka naara Aman
aur ek kaa Jai Jawan Jai Kisan.

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DiggVijay Singh.
There is a blogger in Tribune, who goes by that name. His postings are full of well camouflaged sarcasm, but most Pakistanis, fed on constant anti-India propoganda, take his comments on face value and end up congratulating him as the only sane person in India. This posting by him is pretty funny.

Diggvijay Singh ( protesting any criticism of Zaid Hamid )

21 hours ago

“..
Madame, please don’t conspire to shut down shop for Sir Zaid Hamid. Ever since Leonardo da Vinci, he has been the most multi-faceted and versatile talent the world has ever seen. He is a black-belt in Taekwondo, an equestrian champion, an authority on the works of Allama Muhammed Iqbal, former sidekick of a New Age Prophet, a guerilla-war veteran familiar with the rugged terrains of Afghanistan, a global security analyst, an Austrian-school economist, a diligent student of Islamic, Hindu, Jewish and Freemasonry history and fairy-tales, a top-class exponent of theatrics, and above all, a grandiloquent mesmerizing orator. Most sensible Indian youtubers are in absolute awe of him. I look up to him as a role model. Only a few juvenile Indians, shallow in thoughts and myopic in their outlook, have failed to recognize the blinding genius of this man lying under the veneer of humility and simplicity, his contagiously affectionate smile and his Bolshevik-revolution red cap. I mean, here is a man whose DNA-testing could offer vital clues in evolutionary biology regarding the splitting of the neanderthal and homo sapiens gene pools and we think of setting him aside? We should be listening to him as often and as keenly as we can! I personally don’t mind his Ghazwa- e-Hind at all if India can have a Khalifa as brilliant and talented as Sir Zaid Hamid.”

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All
Farid Zakaria of CNN just finished an interview with Hina Khar, Pakistan FM, on his show, GPS.
Actually she came across good, knowledgeable.

A modern (looking) woman, quite young, beautiful person — This is what she answered Farid on his question on “blasphemy law” :

This modern looking, young woman answered ” there is nothing wrong with the blasphemy law. There is some fine tuning to be done with its implementation”….

On his question on why this, why now , who else in the world has something like this in their constitution – “many countries, such as Saudi Arabia”… and after some thinking, “Iceland” …

It is tough for me to believe that Iceland has a law like that. I am sure, even if there is a law, they are not implementing it with the same rigor like Pakistanis

Pakistan now will say they are in the company of advanced countries like Iceland!

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In last couple of posts, Shenoy invariably is mentioning me with lots of colourful adjectives/descriptions attached . He surely must be really mad at me.

I am still “wondering” – mera qasoor kyaa hai (TIC).

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Pakistan’s latest sin– Murder of Rabbani

Sadaly but not surprisingly Paksitan keeps tumbling down the hill on the road of no return of terrorism.

Afghanis have furnished proof that their former president, Burnuhuddin rabbani was murdered by Pakistani/ISI terrorists. PM Gilani of Pakistan , while not denying has requested Afhanis not to look into the past and move on…

Stroy can be read in DAWN

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Only for Shan (others please excuse)

Now your club is just 2 points above relegation. Sunderland at home won’t be easy either after the international break.

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