Russia, back in the picture



For this week at least Vladimir Putin must be feeling quite smug.

After getting some serious snubbing from Barack Obama, including the first cancellation of a bilateral summit between US and Russian leaders in 50 years, US Secretary of State John Kerry is in Geneva trying to bridge the gap between himself and his Russian counterpart on a UN resolution over Syria. Seems like the Cold War all over.

Which is what much of what Putin does is about. Namely, trying to transfer some of the glory of the Soviet Union’s global profile to the much diminished Russia.

It must also be satisfying to see Obama, who had effectively concluded it was impossible to do business with Russia, come out and praise Putin and Russia’s proposal. Even if the latter itself was based on an off-the-cuff comment by Kerry, in answer to a question of what Syria have to do to avoid being attacked. (Answer: give up its chemical weapons arsenal.)

The unspoken part of all this, of course, was that Putin actually saved Obama from humiliation. By all accounts, the US president lacked the votes to get congressional authorisation for an attack. No surprise that he grabbed the Russian proposal. At least it gave Obama some time.

But it is not clear if Putin will get the last laugh. Much of what is being said right now, including Putin’s paid oped in the New York Times, is posturing. But it is also about trying to shape the global debate and policy environment in which the next act of the Syrian crisis plays out.

[One response to Putin’s oped:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/12/vladimir-putin-new-york-times-oped-syria]

This is why this shaping matters. If the two governments fail to agree on the language of a UN resolution on Syria, then a blame game will emerge as to who led to the breakdown. Putin will try to argue the West was too fixated on maintaining the right to attack Syria. The US will say that giving up the military option would have meant losing the only incentive for Assad to give up his lethal cocktails in the first place.

If, by some miracle, the resolution is agreed to, then the issue will switch to whether Damascus was just bluffing about weapons surrender. I suspect it was the latter. The chemical weapons are Syria’s ultimate deterrent against nuclear-tipped Israel. Giving them up would seriously undermine Assad’s domestic standing.

Putin will continue to have the odd burst when he outshines the US or puts an opposing country in a half-nelson.

But too much of this is based on vestiges of the Soviet Union’s capacities. the basis of Russia’s wealth — natural gas — is heading for a price wasteland as shale gas oozes out of the US and Canada and then overseas. Most of the drivers of future economic growth are missing or in decline in Russia: demography, productivity, market forces and so on. Russia will continue to struggle to stay relevant on the basis of its economy is that of a Persian Gulf potentate.

It doesn’t help that Putin is facing his first serious domestic opposition in years. Sadly, Putin had the popularity and sobriety to have transformed his country during his reign. His early speeches, warning that Russians face extinction, indicated an understanding of the problem. But eventually he succumbed to being just another short-sighted, avaricious authoritarian leader. Bearding the American lion in its tent is the easy way out.

Made easier, I should add, by the utter lack of any coherent thinking on grand strategy by the Obama administration — notice how much of the US policy on Syria has been ex tempore.

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  • Anonymous

    Wonder about Vinod’s fascination with Pakistan.. the connection to the birthplace must be strong!

    (many may not know – the founding editor of HT was the patriot Sardar KM Panicker (yes, another proud Kerala son— “sardar” title bestowed on him) who took care of the state reorganization after the cutoff) and now valuable column/space is spent on the cutoff part)

    IMO things will only get worse there. Imran, who seems to have wide following (at least largely attended meetings), has morphed himself into a fundamentalist, fanatical screamer.

    US will leave Afghanistan, funds will dry up for Pakistan, army is not going to let go their goody filled perch, masses will attend madrasas and turn to the Wrong (?) Islam for their livelihood in terror camps….

    It is simply a wastage of time to do a “what if” scenario for that country because it has not panned out in the last sixty years

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    All the jihadis, including fake Ravi and engrich, will be kept busy by Imran Khan led TEI party for the next year, at least.

    They have all been promised fat bonuses for work well executed, unlike Kasab, who left the work half complete and also got caught.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy-

    No Pakistani leader has come out against the atrocities on Ahmadiyas. No Pakistani leader has come out honouring the Nobel prize winner Abdus Salam.

    In fact Mr Imran Khan is the most vicious of the lot.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    u are right.modi refused to sorry to victims of gujrat mascare.but the common people of pakistan and india is against these acts.some day somebody has to pay for these act.

    engrich Reply:

    In fact Mr Imran Khan is the most vicious of the lot

    he is for democracy.cannot be vicious.

  • Anonymous

    Vinodji

    It does not make any difference as to who wins the elections and forms the civilian government as far as its foreign policy is concerned – it will be the Army/ISI which will continue to call the shots.

    There is a big question mark over Imran Khan’s ability to be able to setup an extensive party machinery within a period of one year (it is a tall order) to contest elections all over the country and win enough seats to be the next Prime Minister.
    Unless, of course the army gives a massive helping hand!

    The other question – if there is a very fractured verdict, will the army take over the reins of the civilian government?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I think Imran will do a deal with a right wing religious party which will then provide the machinery and street presence. The question one has to ask is, what will he promise these fundo’s in return for their support.

    This formula can been seen elsewhere too.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    Anyone’s street level rhetoric and politics always gets tempered when that anyone assumes power and is confronted with the reality of maters of state and its restrictions and limits. This happens in normal democratic societies, whether it will happen in Pakistan, if and when Imran Khan stroms into Islamabad only time will tell.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    zardari is living dead.musharraf comes or not.he is out of game.may he will run away to dubai.army will force him and geelani to implement supreme court orderimplementing those order is signing death warrant,

    [Reply]

  • ashok

    Imran Khan is saying all the right things as far as India is concerned. If his governance is half as good as his cricket, Pakistan should not be too badly off.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/MEA-officials-in-gift-scam-shame-nation/Article1-793897.aspx
    Feeling like crying here.

    [Reply]

    Gt12563 Reply:

    So cry we are listining you.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj,

    This has only come out now. Otherwise these things have always been
    happening .

    [Reply]

  • VijayShah

    This article misses the whole point! Mush is back beacuse Zardari is sick and losing his grip. And the military will be back with full US support (and Mush’s). The USA is allowing taliban to open an office in Qatar! Recently Joe Biden said that “taliban is not our enemy”!

    Indians are fools to believe the US propaganda that they are fighting a war on terror. What they are doing is spreading unrest and war all over the third world. Afghan war of 79-89 was just the beginning… And the most recent one is the CIA plan to topple Syria’s Govt. If Syrian dictatorship is so unwelcome they should have toppled Assad (Sr)’s regime in 1967.

    The media has become bootlixxxers of the US propaganda to the extent that they have even pulled out an interview with Assad’s wife from the net (what happened to the freedom of expression?)

    Musharaff comeback is all planned by the US-UK lobby. The idea is to continue to keep Pakistan under the military and use them to destabilize the whole region.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    That is a different perspective on the situation in Pakistan and USA policy.

    [Reply]

    Gt12563 Reply:

    Why blame America for destablizing region when most muslim countries are doing this job themselves.At the most you can say US is trying how to solve problem of terrorism and violance by muslims.Is that not we Indians and whole world want?If America is saying Taliban is not our enemy there may be some thing in their mind otherwise whole world knows Talibanis are terrorist,kidnapper,killers and doing atrocities for womens.After all we all know Talibani and muslims religion says kill kill infidels and Kafirs but those calling other relgious people are still going to live in infidels land and standing in lines to get visa’s.We are not fool like you said and i can say America is really fighting a war on terror.Even Musharrafs come back is planned by UK and US does it make any difference to us answer is no and no matter whoever comes in power in pakistan their perpetual animosity will go on with us.Dear we have neighbour who has cancer disease and we have to find cure for it.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    most muslim countries are doing this job themselves.At the most you can say US is trying how to solve problem of terrorism

    there are 71 muslim coutries.where there is no oil and america.there is no problem.musharraf is compartively clean person so he may give life dead institution.for 3rd world countries kingship or dictotorship is better than democracy.imperialists want democracy as it is easy to get traitors and agents in that system.

    [Reply]

    VijayShah Reply:

    “At the most you can say US is trying how to solve problem of terrorism and violance by muslims.Is” This is an illusion! Total illusion. Taliban has been created by the US. Al queda codeword has been coined by the US. USA recruited, trained and armed the Muslim Terrorists from around the world in 1979-89 war. Even in Kashmir there were US-imported terrprists who came all the way from Europe (Chechnya for example).

    US Vice President Jeo Biden said the other day that ‘taliban is not our enemy!’. The rest is all in the Wki.

    Dictatorship and terrorism are not one and teh same thing. Only P_G-headed Americans will think that way. Saddam was a dictator – but a never a terrorists or religious fanatic or fundamentalist. USA today has converted Iraq into a fundamentalist safe haven. And the US’s hidden agenda in Iraq is to make the Sunny and Shia fight and fight and destory the country. A very clever plan by the CIA.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    assad regime is gift for syria opponents are cursed like in libya.

    [Reply]

    VijayShah Reply:

    The uS is still supporting at least 50 regimes which are 100 times worse than that of Assad.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Khagaraj-Sommu/100003261520163 Khagaraj Sommu

    It is idiotic of the Pakistani ministers issuing daily warnings to Musharraf that he would be arrested if he sets foot in the country.If they are really serious,they should keep quiet and then arresst him when he arrives.

    [Reply]

  • Gt12563

    Mr.Musharraf must have some kind of assurance from army that is why he is returning.Pak army will not let down their former commander and my guess he is going to be ok.People of Pakistan have been fed up by civilian government of Mr.Zardari where they are facing power ,cooking gas shortage and day to day things very expensive and daily bombing killing kidnapping and minority killings.There is no law and order situation and President used to have nick name of Mr. 10% and now pak news papers are saying he is much more corrupt then before.There may be possiblity that Mr.Zardaris government will be overthrown by army even before Musharrafs arrival and army may hand over job of arranging new election to him.For India we will have same problems from Pakistan and still we will be called infidels and Kafirs as usual and their perpetual animosity be still there.So it does not make any difference for us whether Musharraf returns to Pakistan or not.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shifting attention away from Pakistan, two very interesting articles on our domestic affairs.

    Let us live in hope
    Ramachandra Guha

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Chunk-HT-UI-ViewsSectionPage-TopStories/Let-us-live-in-hope/Article1-793826.aspx

    Excerpt

    Populist movements, he noted, drew on ‘the Gandhian tradition of civil disobedience used with great effect during the nationalist movement’. However, ‘one has to make a distinction between Gandhi and those who have acted in his name after his passing … . No one has shown – or can be expected to show – the restraint and moral discipline of which he was the great exemplar.’

    —————–

    Power, Not Principles
    (Anti-Congressism is the common plank of those motivated by short-term political gain)
    Rajiv Desai

    http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Client.asp?Daily=TOIM&showST=true&login=default&pub=TOI&Enter=true&Skin=TOINEW

    Excerpts

    There are also 1960s-style anarchic groups that include the Anna Hazare autocratic clique and Mamata Banerjee’s socially and intellectually challenged Trinamool Congress. Plunk into the mix the personality cults of Mayawati; the dynastic set-up of Mulayam Singh Yadav, Karunanidhi and Naveen Patnaik; the slippery appeal of Jayalalithaa and the holier-than-thou stance of Nitish Kumar. These are mercenary formations that will sway whichever way the wind blows, depending on the political advantage they can derive.
    It is not clear what any of these groups stand for except opposition to the Congress. In 1974, the great anarch Jayaprakash Narayan talked of “total revolution” and called on the army to revolt against the Indira Gandhi government; today Anna has subverted his fight against corruption into an anti-Congress political movement. Talk about deja vu.
    The foolishness of the Anna band of civil society buccaneers was exposed when the moving spirit, Arvind Kejriwal, was forced to issue a statement that they are not anti-Congress. Earlier, when cornered by thinking people on a television show, he said that India’s muchadmired parliamentary democracy is a fraud. Such increasingly shrill utterances suggest he is completely out of depth on the national stage.
    Meanwhile, BJP leader L K Advani led a rath yatra against
    money in Swiss banks in a nonetoo-subtle bid to cash in on Anna’s storm in a teacup against corruption. Of classic RSS vintage, he believes no one remembers his other 1990 Ram temple effort which led to communal riots. So where is the “glorious” temple he promised? He served as home minister and deputy prime minister for the six years the BJP-led coalition was in power. Advani’s confusion was complete when he went to Karachi and lauded Mohammed Ali Jinnah as a secular leader.

    So let’s look at the Congress record. It has been the default option for the electorate. In the past quarter century, it suffered seminal defeats in the elections of 1989 and 1996. In each case, it was voted out of power on allegations of corruption. Each time, a coalition of parties was hastily put together that stood for nothing except opposition to the Congress. In both those defeats, any objective analyst could conclude the Congress lost because its governments undertook significant reforms that hurt the status quo.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    pakistan is ruled by gang of thugs and robbers.from asif zardari to rehman malik all are scavanger, money swindlers and dacoits,came in power on sympathy vote due murder of benazir.they have robbed all institutions of pakistan,like steel mill of pakistan,pak railways,pak banks,pia(which has become pain in the a$$)pak sui gas.they are even robbing the good houses of private people.

    now their days are over.i hope army will not take over,otherwise they will loot remaining in the name of patriotism.for india democracy in pakistan is best.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Beware, your daily glass of good health could actually be doing you harm. As much as 70% of milk samples picked up from the capital by a government agency failed to conform to standards.

    Of the 71 samples randomly taken from Delhi for testing by the Food Safety Standards Authority of India (FSSAI), 50 were found to be contaminated with glucose and skim milk powder (SMP), which is usually added to milk in the lean season to enhance volumes.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ PAKISTAN SET TO BECOME A MORE DANGEROUS PLACE… ~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    A perceptive and timely article by VInod. Things are set to implode a bit more in Pakistan. Especially if US stops its aid and then drops Pakistan as a terror ally.

    Ever since Osama was caught eating haraam kababs in Abbotabad, wearing phatiyon wala kachcha and probably watching Sunny Leone films to kill boredom, even the most ardent **** lovers in the US have a difficult time hiding Pakistan’s jehadi kachcha and total andha pyaar for suicide bombers and fanatic Islam.

    For a change, the Yanks too are no longer steak eating mooses and have finally discovered who their real enemy is. It is insaan ka dushman- Pakistan, insaniyat ka dushman Pakistan for them now.

    The Yanks will yank away the pipeline of free dollars and the breathless entity of Pakistan will choke and face possible sanctions. The dollar is already 90 bucks to a Pakistan rupee and if it touches 150, jehadis will be born a thousand a day.

    Imran may ride a wave of hate the west fervour. But will soon discover that taking a panga with India is the only way to survive. The Indian media will glow that it has someone like them in power– but in reality the ISI, Hafeez Saeed and army will call the shots.

    SM Krishana’s wig will hit the ceiling.

    While we Indians– with runts like Digvinash calling the shots, will face the brunt….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay

    We need to be prepared to face terrorists who may want to attack India becasue fo thsi turmoil in Pakistan. It is important to note that Pakistan is willing ot give up its aid giving relationship with the US, rather than giving up its jehadi asses like Hafeez Saeed.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vinoo,

    you are right in saying that we should be prepared to face the terror exported by Pakistan’s new rulers.

    But how do you destroy terrorists who come in the garb of friends like fake Ravi and engrich?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    nobody will attack india.india is far bigger and stronger.neverthless we should be carefull.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    a very perceptive article.

    Millions of Indians are busy touring various tourism spots in India and the outside world.

    But Pakistanis are busy visiting porn sites on the internet.
    In this, they have beaten India, a huge sex-starved country, by several miles.

    In fact Pakistan holds the dubious record for watching all the weirdest sex videos.

    This has happened particularly after Osama made Pakistan his home.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Arre wah apne toh Vijay ke humour ko pura takar de diya! Gr8 reply !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    I think it should be called “cyber sex tourism year” an announcement by the Pakistan tourism board….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    FREE SEX IN 3D!

    engrich Reply:

    But Pakistanis are busy visiting porn sites on the internet

    pakistan mein mard rahte hai aur india mein tourists.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    viju

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Viju
    Pakistan has decided that they will discard the aid and take a U Turn from USA if that is what they have to do to keep Hafez Saed and the likes of him in their arsenal.

    This parallels Zulfiker Bhutto’s decision in 1970s — “we will eat grass if that is what we have to do to produce our atom bomb”.

    First atom bomb, then human bomb. They will use human bomb against India to unite the splintering groups there.

    Digrryodhan Singh will say we made Pakistan do that…Only in India

    .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Gopi

    I think it is a very apt example. “We will eat grass… but retain our jehadi assets…” That is a very concise summary of the current Pakistani state.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi, Vijay Kumar,

    here is the dialogue between Zardari and Obama, translated in Urdu, which took place recently from his hospital bed:

    Zardari:”Sardar, maine aap ka namak khaya hai, saat saal se, for sixty years, lekin ab sirf namak se kaam nahin chalega”

    Obama:”what is all this namak-shamak business? We know Pakistanis are the biggest, biggest…….biggest,,,,,,,,what is the bloody word?”

    Zardari, (trying to be helpful): namak haraam?

    Obama:yes, yes, that is it. You people bite the hand that has fed you these last six decades!

    Zardari: “Sardar, mai baap, I will never bite the hand or any part of your body. Please give me asylum in US. I am prepared to live even in Gauntenamo! This bloody Kayani will kill me if I go back, please”.

    Obama: Ok, Ok, let me see whether there is a vacant room in Gitnamo”.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Good one. (: (:

    Anonymous Reply:

    :)

    engrich Reply:

    First atom bomb, then human bomb. They will use human bomb against India to unite the splintering groups there.

    they will do or not do.hindu fascists are doing this in india.apni KALA KO DANGON MEIN AUR BOMB PLANTING MEIN ACHCHI TARAH DEKHTE HAIN.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The real name of the country is PakSHITstan. We should always stay away
    from the shit.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    Agree. There is no meaning in wasting precious time, effort pondering on what ifs. Do everything to protect the borders, gather intelligence..Deal with them only after they are “stabilized” which may never happen.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Agree with you. Cut off all the relations with them and secure our
    borders.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopji,

    Stabalized Pakistan? It is an Oxymoron.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    you have used the wrong word, “stabilized”.
    The correct word is “sterilized”.

    it would definitely reduce “pressure” on google sites.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Not only only google sites, but on camels, sheep, and goats also.

    engrich Reply:

    like pak army u bjp rss people survive on pak fear.as u have nothing to offer india.neighbours cannot be changed like wife.hence it is better to know how to live happily.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Guys,

    As Gopiji has said ‘ there is no meaning in wasting presious time ‘.
    Pakistan is not the subject worth discussing for long. Till something intersting
    comes up – meanwhile read this.

    The head of Human Resources at a very large bank, says that the best excuse
    for absenteeism that he had ever received in his career of almost 22 years,
    was from a female Indian employee, at their bank’s head quarters at Mumbai,
    India, in July, 2011.
    He says when the lady, was questioned on why she remained absent the previous day, she simply replied …….
    “Sir, I had no option. My husband was on casual leave yesterday and was at home. By mistake he took pills from the wrong bottle in our medicine cabinet and ended up consuming an over-dose of Viagra! Now how could I have left him, all alone at home, with the house-maid? “

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    The West Aims to Turn the Entire Global South into a Failed State

    The economic collapse that began in 2008, that was duly declared unpredictable and thoroughly unforeseen across the entire Western media, was, in fact, anything but. Indeed, the capitalist cycle of expansion and collapse has repeated itself so often, over hundreds of years, that its existence is openly accepted across the whole spectrum of economic thought, including in the mainstream – which refers to it, in deliberately understated terms, as the “business cycle”. Only those who profit from our ignorance of this dynamic – the billionaire profiteers and their paid stooges in media and government – try to deny it.

    A slump occurs when “capacity outstrips demand” – that is to say, when people can no longer afford to buy all that is being produced. This is inevitable in a capitalist system, where productive capacity is privately owned, because the global working class as a whole are never paid enough to purchase all that they collectively produce. As a result, unsold goods begin to pile up, and production facilities – factories and the like – are closed down. People are thrown out of work as a result, their incomes decline, and the problem gets worse. This is exactly what we are seeing happen today.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Remember that India’s share of world exports was about 25 per cent in 1700. But after two decades of weak and pathetic liberalisation, India is struggling with less than 2 per cent share of world exports.

    Indian annual exports were $245.9 billion in the year ending March 2011 (source). Sounds good?

    Well, compare with China’s annual exports that will likely exceed $1.8 trillion in 2011 (source). [US exports appx. $1.3 trillion in 2010 (source)]

    Had India followed the policies of freedom, its exports could by now have been 20 per cent of world exports, i.e. well over $3 trillion per year.
    This can still become a reality should FTI find enough leaders quickly and step forward to lead India.

    INDIA CAN DO TEN TIMES BETTER.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mayawati richest chief minister of India

    Her total declared assets are worth Rs 87.27 crore, most of
    which, she claims, had been donated by her followers. The declared total assets of nine other chief ministers in the list have is Rs 79.5 crore, according to data released by NGO Association for Democratic Reforms.

    Among them, Tamil Nadu chief minister and former cine star Jayalalithaa account for Rs 51 crore, thus earning the distinction of being the second richest chief minister in India. She claims her assets have not increased in the last five years.

    —–

    Punjab Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal and Andhra Pradesh chief minister Kiran Reddy are poor third and fourth with assets of Rs 9 and Rs 8.1 crore respectively.

    —–

    None of the other chief ministers on the list have assets more than Rs five crore.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar-

    It is interesting how far Mayawati has come. Isnt there any authority in the country that can investigate – how a woman who did not have any asset before becoming a minister amasses so much wealth over so little time period.

    I am reading a book on Sardar KM Panikker, the first editor of Hindustan Times, a great son of India/kerala, a member of the three member panel of 1953 State Reorganization Committee charted with dividing independent India into states. Sardar Panikkar wanted the present UP area to be divided into small states; however Pandit Kunzru and Justice Fazal Ali, the other two members did not agree. Their main reason was to leave Nehru permanently protected with his Prime ministership election after election, because they felt he will command the loyalty of the large UP contingent of MPs.

    History takes strange twists and turns — instead of protecting Congress (Nehru), the vast size has now become an “akshaya patra” for Mayawati– she would have made far less by running a smaller state!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Mayawati. What can one say about her? She is taking her constituency for one royal ride. As long as her vote-bank does not realise (as it happened in of Lalu and Mulayam) she is not their benefactor, she will continue to rule the roost. One of the factors to hasten the porcess is for some other party to throw up a leader like Nitish Kumar in UP. Which party? That is a million rupee question. Whoever replaces her ( a big if, though), would have to provide a clean administration to send her into oblivion.

    I wonder why are you silent on Jayalalitha’s wealth.

    Regarding reorganisation of states, what Mr. Panikker says must be true. However, I have a different take on it. The reasons advanced by other two members do not make sense. Pandit Nehru was not a UP specific politician-leader and was not eve rin race for the CM’s post. He was much more than that. His appeal was countrywide. Therefore, if United Provinces was divided into smaller states, it would not have made any iota of difference whatsoever as far as the electoral fortunes of Nehru or the Congress Party in 50s and 60s, there was no big enough political force then to challenge Nehru/Congress Party. You may or may not agree wit this assessment.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    giving a stable of loyal MPs from UP — because all knew eventually there wil be horse trading 5 yrs, 1o yrs.. as we all know actually he and his philosophy had faced opposition from Rajaji etc in early sixties…

    Jayalalittha was quite rich when she got in politics.. I m sure she must have had a delta through corruption; but I m ok with her 1 – she gets things done, unlike behanji 2 – she is aiming at history books, she will not be corrupt this cycle — plus she is vigorously prosecutg excesses of karunanidhi — she never rose to the wholesale family rape of the state

    Anonymous Reply:

    1) “giving a stable of loyal MPs from UP”

    You fail to see that Nehru was an all India leader not a state specific leader. No problem with your view.

    As late as 1962 for example, Congress still won 361 seats out of 494, under his leadership.

    2) Mayawati and Jayalalitha

    quite rich!! Big misdeeds – vs – small misdeeds! First one not OK and the second one OK!

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji/Manohar,

    Sheikh Mohammad of Dubai is respected a lot in this part of the world. Main reason is that he get things done, he makes sure that the
    policies are implemented. I see simillarties in three CM’s of India.
    Nitish Kumar, Modi and Jaya Lalita. Incidentally all three are not
    from Congress. Is it because CM’s of Congress have to take orders
    from 10 Janpath for major decisions?

  • engrich

    gopi,DENGUE FEVER THE SECOND PHASE OF BIO WAR ON AFRO-ASIA.Wepons of mass destruction be atomic, biological or chemical, if the west holds them its moral but with the non-white countries or Muslim world its inhuman.
    So called civilized nations have no scruples!

    Before the readers label me as conspiracy theorist, I would recommend them to go through or scan two important books, Six-Legged Soldiers: Using Insects as Weapons of War by Jaffrey A Lockwood and Biohazard: The Chilling True Story of the Largest Covert Biological Weapons Program in the World by Ken Alibek and Stephan Handlemen. If you don’t have time to do that, do it the easiest way and search Wikipedia. You may be surprised to know that Dengue was part of US secret Biological warfare program right from after the 2nd World War.

    As per Wikipedia, “When the U.S. biological warfare program ended in 1969 it had developed seven mass-produced, battle-ready biological weapons in the form of agents that cause: anthrax, tularemia, brucellosis, Q-fever, VEE, and botulism. In addition Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B was produced as an incapacitating agent. In addition to the agents that were ready to be used the U.S. program conducted research into the weaponization of more than 20 other agents. They included: smallpox, EEE and WEE, AHF, Hantavirus, BHF, Lassa fever, glanders, melioidosis, plague, yellow fever, psittacosis, typhus, dengue fever, Rift Valley fever (RVF), CHIKV, late blight of potato, rinderpest, Newcastle disease, bird flu, and the toxin ricin.Besides the numerous pathogens that afflict human beings, the U.S. had developed an arsenal of anti-agriculture biological agents. These included rye stem rust spores (stored at Edgewood Arsenal, 1951–1957), wheat stem rust spores (stored at the same facility 1962 – 1969), and the causative agent of rice blast (stored at Fort Detrick 1965 – 1966).A U.S. facility at Fort Terry primarily focused on anti-animal biological agents. The first agent that was a candidate for development was foot and mouth disease (FMD). Besides FMD, five other top secret biological weapons projects were commissioned on Plum Island.The other four programs researched included RVF, rinderpest, African swine fever, plus eleven miscellaneous exotic animal diseases. The eleven miscellaneous pathogens were: Blue tongue virus, bovine influenza, bovine virus diarrhea (BVD), fowl plague, goat pneumonitis, mycobacteria, “N” virus, Newcastle disease, sheep pox, Teschers disease, and vesicular stomatitis. Work on delivery systems for the U.S. bio-weapons arsenal led to the first mass-produced biological weapon in 1952, the M33 cluster bomb. The M33’s sub-munition, the pipe bomb like, cylindrical M114 bomb, was also completed and battle-ready by 1952. Other delivery systems researched and at least partially developed during the 1950s included the E77 balloon bomb and the E86 cluster bomb. The peak of U.S. biological weapons delivery system development came during the 1960s. Production of cluster bomb sub-muntions began to shift from the cylindrical bomblets to spherical bomblets, which had a larger coverage area

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ram

    I do believe US has biological warfare programs — however, I do not think they have used it, at least in the last 50 years…they used chemical warfare in vietnam to kill the forests where viet congs were hiding.. ..

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    THEY USED THIS ON IRAQ AND NOW RECENTLY IN LIBY.in iraq they have used at large scale specially on city of fallujah.with result of thousands of deformed babies.even american soldiers were effected they too had deformed babies.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    No, Ram. No bio weapons were used in these two.
    However, the source supplier for Sadam’s bio weapon attack against Shias/Iranians in late 1970s was USA

    engrich Reply:

    in that area it is churchill who used mustard gas against kurd.in iraq iran war both side were using bio weapons supplied by west.

    america used uranium at lrge scale in iraq.send me ur email i can send or go to uruknet.com u will find it.or some some american magzines on iraq war u will find detailes.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Engrich

    It would not hurt you to check the facts before posting your comments.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shameful fact.

    About 70% of milk sold in India is adulterated.

    http://truthdive.com/2012/01/10/indian-milk-adulterated-survey.html

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Pornographic films in India are referred to as Blue Films and are available virtually anywhere; especially in areas where pirated material is already being sold. Despite the illegality, stores selling X-rated material are abundant in major cities, advertising openly and rarely are the laws enforced in this case

    However in 2010 Bombay high Court ruled that watching pornography is legal

    In India, watching pornography is not uncommon though there may not be any authentic data to confirm this. One can watch pornographic materials but cannot distribute or produce it.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar-

    Is this “equating” Pakistan’s craze for pornography (which is logged in here by a blogger) to India; or just a statement?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Not equating, but to debunk the argument that it is made out to be some sort ‘crime’ and just not done. Judging other people’s morals and life, what gives? One person’s pleasure is another person’s “sin”.

    India ranks 6th in the world in the list led by Pakistan.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    for this congressi troll, anything that equates, according to him, Pakistan with India, is good and worth quoting.

    What I and some others quoted as statistics, was about weird and unnatural sex, as with animals, in which Pakistan, to the eternal shame of its supporters here, is in the lead by a wide margin.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    According to the figures furnished to the EC, Narendra Modi is among the poorest of our CMs, with assets less than 50lac.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Modi is accused of many things, — rightly or wrongly — but no one can accuse him of being corrupt.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    he was using his state police and petty gudaas to extract money from bussinesman.amit shah his homeminister is barred from entering state.all fake encounters were planned by him.he forced judiciary to issue wrong judgement for which supreme court reprimanded him.what else you want to prove that he is corrupt.KILLER MODI IS HINDU HARDAY SAMRAT for hurting minorities and dalits.one of his minister injected 57 ladies with hepatites injection.in reward he was made minister.
    he is hyped by our toilet paper brhmncl media.

    [Reply]

  • Shah Alam Khan

    Dear Vinod ji,
    An excellent commentary on a really complicated situation. I appreciate your simplification of a very complex, multifarious political rug, which unfolds every day in Pakistan. The cocktail of Jehad and America has not only been helpful in giving a breeding ground to the radical Talibanis but has also thrown the ruling political class into chaos, longing (and perhaps gasping) for right wing “popular” space in that country. In fact it is this very space that attracts otherwise once “liberal” personalities like Imran Khan. Having said this, it is also important to note that there is no dearth of sane voices in the Pakistani society but in the last one decade or so we have seen that these voices have either been smothered or the media and the society at large have ignored them. The roots of democratic process in Pakistan have time and again been eroded by personal agendas and a corrupt political class which itself owes allegiance to a feudal social order. The common Pakistani should realize that their hope for democracy to deliver does not lie with the political class alone; it lies in adapting a degree of equipoise within their social order. It’s important to “think democracy” before longing for it.
    Truly,
    Dr. Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi
    http://www.indiaandbharat.blogspot.com

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr. Shah Alam Khan

    In 1947, both India and Pakistan started on equal footing as far governance and system to adopt were concerned, having had the same rulers – the British and whatever little democracy they had permitted with the enactment of Government of India Act, 1935. Elections to provincial assemblies and national parliament were held after that regularly.

    One wonders as to what went wrong (and why) with Pakistan floundering as against India still being a democratic country (an imperfect one, if you like)? Why is there not enough of “think democracy” across the border?

    I would welcome your response.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr. Khan

    Just noticed the link to your blog and I am impressed. I will be spending a considerable time on it. Have just bookmarked it.

    Who no new write-ups after June 2011?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    taliban movement is response of common man against corrupt rulers of pakistan who have completely looted their country.seculars and liberals are the people of low moral values who dont hesitate o rob their country.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dr Shah Alam, big welcome bak sirji. One question to you, if u please_

    “IS PAKISTAN PREDICAMENT THE CRY OF MUSLIM SOCIETIES FOR RENASANCE, WHICH HAS ALREADY FLOWERED IN JUDAIC, HINDU, BUDDHIST SOCIETIES ?
    In other worlds, is there vertical lineage from Taimur Lang to Aurangzeb to Osama which is crying to be broken.??”
    We await yr reply professor. Others may join, except the 2 India hating Pakistanis on blog. You know who you are, keep away, this is dialogue for India lovers

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Correction, already flowered in hindu, buddhist, judaic and christian societies, forgot to mention christian

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    balwinder jee islam was itself a rennainace of his time.u people only got money by cheating india and supporting moghuls and britishers.there is no mental rennainace at all there otherwise shvlng would not haveen installed at every corner of india. .i am not pakistani or anti india.only thing is i am rataional.i dont believe in boasting.budhdhists i dont know but judiac societies are more conservative than us.christianity is destroyed by zoinists.

    [Reply]

    Shah Alam Khan Reply:

    Dear Balwinder ji,
    Thank you very much indeed for the warm welcome! Honestly speaking I find your question a bit intriguing. Sorry to disappoint but the question appears to be having a specific mind set. Anyway now that you have asked, let me answer to the best of my knowledge and judgement.
    To say that religions like Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism have undergone a renaissance is a bit of over simplification. Unfortunately its always difficult for any religion to change in a manner which can be labelled as renaissance. You can have a Cultural Renaissance but I am not sure if I can say the same for a religion. Coming to India and Hinduism. The most ardent efforts in Hinduism have been to break open the shackles of caste. Despite thousands of years of casteist slavery, we still see it live and ticking in our country. So in your language, either the Hindu renaissance failed or in my language Hinduism never had a renaissance of sorts you and me expect.
    Finally, to merge the legacy of tyrants like Taimur Lang, Aurangzeb & Osama to that of Islam is also a nefarious over-simplification. To me the esoteric legacy of Islam which comes from the Sufi movement of the Sub-Continent is far more appealing than the names which you mention. Well if renaissance has ever touched Islam (as you probably want it to) than it was the Sufi movement which gave us scholars like Nozamuddin Auliya and Kabir. For me its not important whether a religion underwent change or not, its more important for the people perception to change so that the world remains a wonderful place to live.
    Truly,
    Shah Alam Khan
    AIIMS, New Delhi

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr. Alam,

    ” it is not important whether a religion underwent change or not, it is more important
    for the people perception to change so that the world remains a wonderful place to
    live ” . Agree with you, only wish that it was as ease as it is said.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Khan

    I believe that one factor that has not been touched here is the Arab/Fundamentalist Islamic Imperialism. What is the benefit of surplus money if not to spread influence?

    There are Extreme Right Wing (slafi) movements within Islam, particularly in Saudi, who want to supplant their version of Islam atop the Sufi movement we all love.

    This in my opinion is the Victoria Sponge Cake on top of which Talibanism, etc are grafted. Their mission is to nudge the Pakistan society, and to a lesser extent the Indian Muslim society, into the camp of Saudi influence. The attack on Dargah’s, etc. is outward symptoms of this.

    While the Saudi are nudging Pakistan right-ward, they themselves have started small movements left-ward in their own country. Woman permitted to drive is one example. The unhealthy bond between the Monarch and Mullah is showing signs of weakening.

    I believe that the so called “Jihadi” strategy is being re-evaluated at source and that one day it will be quietly forgotten and in time the Pakistan Society will be able to return to some form of normalcy, all be it, it’s centre of gravity resting somewhere right of where it was in the early 50s, but somewhere left of where it was in the last decade.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    thsre many other country apart from saudia and pakistan.both are not free.their main decisions are taken in white house.wahabism dont have much following among muslims.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Engrich

    Spreading Saudi brand of Islam cannot be at the behest of the USA. Otherwise they would not be opposing and fighting it in Af-Pak region.

    engrich Reply:

    hinduism had revivalism not rennaissance.aurangzeb was not tyrant he was demonized by britishers.indias gdp was 25%of world.he devoted his life to maitain unity and integrity of india,.he put his own son in jail for 18 years on graft charges.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Maya cover-up in full swing as clock ticks

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/UttarPradesh/Maya-cover-up-in-full-swing-as-clock-ticks/Article1-794397.aspx

    Excerpt

    At the Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar Samajik Parivartan Sthal in the state capital, workers sweated all day to drape the nearly 20-feet high elephant statues in plastic sheets.

    Those of Mayawati, almost of the same height, went inside wooden boxes.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    100% FDI in single-brand reality now.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/100-FDI-in-single-brand-reality-now/articleshow/11440827.cms

    Now one has to see how much noise the opponents (from the BJP and Comrades to Mamata) will make about it.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I do not think 100% FDI in single brand will make much difference. We may not see any
    apposition from any political parties. There is already 51% equity allowed in this
    sector. These will be only branded items and will cater to very small segment of
    the country. Minimum price of a small ladies hand bag of Louis Vitton costs in a range of
    Rs. 15000/- to 20000/- . Are there any Indian brands in compitrion of these products ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    What difference does it make if it is a single brand or multi-brand? If you go by your reasoning, then the rich can have the best of the world by what they are able to get, but the poor in the country have to ………..

    Strange, to say the least.

    The opposition was only to corner and beat the Congress. Period. That they timed it (announcing the policy of FDI in multi-brand) is another matter altogether.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    DR SHAH ALAM AND BALWINDER””””””””
    thanks for bringing blog back to topic. I would, if I may like to join your debate but would reply in byte size contributions, so that your replies can be stratified.

    No.1
    Dr Shah, sorry, but the hindu society HAS undergone a massive renaissance- the very fact that several muslims and dalits or OBCs have become presidents, CMs, judges, Governors and the fact that at least 20% of doctors are from backward castes is a testimony to the inherently liberal and self correcting soul of the majority hindu-sikh-jain community, as also the positive goverance policies of the Indian state.

    From 1000 AD to about 1948, the hindu community had had its spirit broken by domination by first the Islamic rulers and then the Europeans, some of which was very brutal, and some allowance must be made for the fact that for a society to reach its highest zenith, it needs must have stability.

    The moment it got its stability in 1948, it made impressive progress. Everywhere you look you see ST/ SC / OBC on top- Mayawati, Lallu, Mulayam, Yedurappa, Paswan, Buta Singh, Jagjivan Ram etc

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Dr Shah, sorry, but the hindu society HAS undergone a massive renaissance- the very fact that several muslims and dalits or OBCs have become presidents, CMs, judges, Governors and the fact that at least 20% of doctors are from backward castes is a testimony to the inherently liberal and self correcting soul of the majority hindu-sikh-jain community, as also the positive goverance policies of the Indian state

    kisi hindu ke ghar jao to lagta hai jurrasic park mein aa gaye hai.every tytpe of god is present there.same is outside flooded with temples.i have never any of christian or muslim ruler going to mosque so regularly.
    some places u find dalits is due to reservation.our mental status is which is must for rennainace is still 5000 years old.har chaurahe pe shvling or hanuman.actually after freedom we have become more mentally backward.before freedom mohallas used to be mix now according to caste.yes some hindu has become filthy rich so show of materialism is more.

    balwinderjee people like satya sai baba nityanand aseemanand cannot product of society with scientific thought.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    LOOK IN THE MIRROR
    Folks , have you noticed , Vinod’s SURNAME, says it all.Thus to divert attention from all the ill that bedevills indian society FOR WHICH MESSRS SHARMA AND HIS FELLOW CASTE ARE TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE, bring in the BOGEYMAN.
    PERHAPS INDIANS NEED TO REFLECT ON THEIR OWN STATE OF AFFAIRS
    Here is a quote of a sane voice
    “There is, in fact, a substantial part of the Indian population — a minority but still very large in absolute numbers — for whom India’s economic growth is working well, along with those who were already comparatively privileged. An exaggerated concentration on their lives, which the Indian media tend typically to display, gives an unreal picture of the rosiness of what is happening to Indians in general. There tends to be fulsome coverage in the news media of the lifestyles of the fortunate, and little notice of the concerns of the less fortunate. To refer to three of many unfortunate facts (the list can be quite long): (1) India has the highest percentage of undernourished children in the entire world, measured in terms of the standard criteria; (2) India spends a far lower percentage of its GNP than China on government-provided health care and has a much lower life expectancy; and (3) India’s average rank among South Asian countries — India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Bhutan — in the standard social indicators, varying from life expectancy and immunisation to infant mortality and girls’ schooling, has dropped over the last twenty years from being second-best to second-worst (even as India has surged ahead in terms of GNP per capita).
    THIS BUSINESS OF DRAGGING IN PAKISTAN IS A COMMON TRAIT AMONGST THE BLOGGERS OF THIS BLOG , CURIOUSLY MOST OF THEM BELONG TO THE VILEST CASTE.
    @Dr Shah Alam Khan , I wouldn’t take note of sandhu , Due to history (one of their guru’s head being presented as trophy to aurangzeb) Islamophobia or islamohatred is ingrained amongst the sikhs.Thus ONLY sikhs have their own butcher like muslim halal or jewish kocher.
    On a separate note, MUSLIMS MAKE ONLY 3.7 % of the population ,YET 12% of PRISON POPULATION IS MUSLIM, that is 10,000 of a total of 80,000
    Hindus are my guess 2% of population 1.5 MILLION has 446 prisoners
    SIKHS 400,000 , has 1000 prisoners.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Can you tell us why 70% bengalis are muslims? Is it because of cowardice, opportunism or hindu caste system? Now start your ****.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    hindu rascism

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    If conversion to Islam was due to Caste system, why is it majority of hindus are SC/ST, OBC and lower castes?

    Even Enrich seems to be a convert..Why his ancestors converted? Isn’t it obvious from his nonstop nonsense? They must be cowards or opportunists.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    this is question of liking.moreover hindu is system it is not religion.i call myself hindu.british is not religion.hindu is nationality.hindu is made samaj by fascist.samaj consists of brhmn and its salve.leaving hindu samaj givesu sense of freedom and equality which is not there.conversion became more where suppression was more.like in punjab sindh and bengal.up,bihar and mp was ruled mainly by muslims ,conversion was less.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “THIS BUSINESS OF DRAGGING IN PAKISTAN IS A COMMON TRAIT AMONGST THE BLOGGERS OF THIS BLOG , CURIOUSLY MOST OF THEM BELONG TO THE VILEST CASTE”.

    How else they would find scapegoats for shenanigans of their ‘beloved heaven born’ leaders and ‘god ordained’ ideology? Blame everyone else but their own to justify and give a air of legitimacy – is the name of the game.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Monohar

    When this primary blog is about Pakistan, on a blog site called separated at Birth, dragging RSS into everything is more funny than talking about Pakistan.

    If the class is about Physics, let us talk physics and not Urdu

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Waah,kyaa baat hai. Maan gaye ‘ustaad’.

    When it becomes inconvenient then you remind me and others about the primary subject of the blog. As if you and your fellow travelers have never ever have raked other topics on this blog? Practising double standards and doublespeak, a la RSS/BJP?

    One more ‘waah’ for you.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You seemed to be amazed why everyone was talking Pakistan. I was just pointing out why…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Not good enough.

    Read Gopi’s post about enemies within.

    I have posted my own view on Pakistan right here and have made a point or tow to Dr. Khan re Pakistan, if you care to read and if so make note of it, while responding.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mr CIngulate, you should notice that the blog site is called Seperated at birth. The subject matter is about Pakistan.

    I think you should rmemeber that it is important to stick to the subject matter rather than what you like talking about.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    DR SHAH ALAM AND BALWINDER””””””””””””

    no 2

    Dr Shah you have mentioned the scourge of caste. Let me put it to you that in the developing world, discrimination of some minority groups by others is sadly universal. It is caste by another name.
    In Iran, try being a sunni.
    In Pakistan try being an Ahmadiya or a shia. In the last 15 years, targetted killings of Shia doctors, teachers, accountants etc has reached triple figures. Can you even imagine Indian right wing groups killing SC/ ST doctors or teachers ?

    99% of Indians, including me, revere Dr Ambedkar. In Pakistan, Dr Abdus Salam, a Nobel Laureate was hounded in life and had his grave descrated after death. So I do find that trying to pretend that hindu society is unique in terms of caste discrimination is inaccurate- much worse discrimination exists in most other ‘developing’ societies (another example is Hutus vs Tutsis)

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    In Pakistan try being an Ahmadiya or a shia

    mishrajee after 1947 most of the time pakistan was ruled by shias.zardari is shia
    jinnah was shia ,raja saheb mahboodabad was shia bhutto was shia ,yahya khan was shia.u people fabricate lie,then use it to beat others.like in the case of aurangzeb.india gdp was 25%of the world in his time.one british wrote a lie of heavy casaulaties in his time.without confirming,u use it to spew hatred aginst him.
    qadianis were very powerful till bhutto came to power.even now they are socially accepted actually respected,being more educated and rich.yes once or twice their mosques were attacked,so with every community.but u never know who attack ed.since americans are kicked out of pakistan,suicide attaks reduces sharply.

    why no such love for indian muslims.from 1969 every year rss perpetuated riot in ahmadabad almost to the same scale of 2002.why no tears for victims of those.
    ll ur is sorrow is limited to shias and qadiyanis.

    in hinduism castes are institutionalize and following it is duty.other religions caste exist but it is sin.this is the difference.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    99% of Indians, including me, revere Dr Ambedkar

    ambedkar was not honoured he was used.he was asking for seprate electorate for dalits.like muslims.ghandhi took fast unto death(political rape)and he was forced to accept reservation instead.only after62 years when mayawati became strong some recognition was given to him in parliament.

    goverment and people of pakistan and even india consider prof abdus salam a great man.few idiots are evrywhere.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    11.30 pm here in UK, I shall sleep and post more tomorrow

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Panditji doesn’t know the meaning of Renaissance.It means NEW LEARNING, which says MAN IS THE CENTRE OF ALL DISCUSSION NOT GOD.
    For Hindu religion , a similar thing would be GITA IS A PIECE OF ****, which says “Everything is predestined” and GOD CREATED FOUR CASTES FROM FOUR PARTS OF HIS BODY , which GIRISH KARNAD today reminded Indians in NDTV , when commenting on the NEFARIOUS plan to induct GITA in the curriculum of young school children as a PILOT HINDUTWA PROJECT IN ex bank manager now garment factory owner ’s home state

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    9/11 Hijackers Passports were issued by the CIA – US Consulate Whistleblower

    an interesting video on u tube.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Nirad Babu clone,

    the issue is up for public discussion, as was the issue of made made snan, which is now accepted as a case fit for state intervention and closure.

    As an ignoramus about the politics of Karnataka, let me tell you that due to
    there being large sections of Shaivites in commanding position, it is very unlikely that Gita would be introduced in school curriculum.

    And, for your information, Girish Karnad and I belong to the same caste and same place too. But we differ wildly on most issues.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gita was written after victory of brhmns over budhhdists to establish supermacy of brhmns.women is not part of caste.so dalits.why it was written by fisherman son whynot by lord krishna himself.
    lord krishna is not a historical fgure this book was written to bring budhhdists into brhmncl fold.
    pandav kills kaurav only because they were inferior.he orders arjun to kill his cousins and uncles.

    krishna had affair with neighbours wife radha.brhmns insulted blue god in every possible way,as blue is non brhmncl colour.book was written by brhmns as they were only educated community of that time.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan

    The pilot Hindutva project is in MP, a state under the BJP for the last eight years. The CM there is so busy promoting and compulsorily foisting the RSS’ ideology (surya namaskar, banning of beef and now teaching of Gita, etc.) that the state is lagging behind UP, Bengal and Bihar.

    read on (courtesy Shekhar Gupta)

    Check out more news on the BJP. A party that boasts a modern, well-educated and relatively young leadership that enthrals its supporters whenever they intervene in Parliament has meanwhile produced a legislation of its own: banning not just the trading but eating of beef in Madhya Pradesh, a state run by it for eight years now, and one with an average real growth rate lower than that of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal (according to October’s CSO data from 2004-05 to 2010-11). Maybe the problem with Madhya Pradesh’s economy, its inability to attract investment and create jobs was that some fifth columnists ate beef under the cover of darkness in their power-starved towns and villages, thus inviting divine wrath upon that hapless state. This from a party that went to the polls in 2004 on a claim, and promise of reform and modernisation.

    ————

    Now wait for RSS’ apologists to give spin to this.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shan-

    Renaissance started in India time immemorial.
    Indian learned men uttered “ekam sat viora bahuda vedanti’ “Loka samastha sukhino bhavandu” etc even befre modern science discovered the scope and extent of the universe, with different races all across the globe.

    You are totally wromg on Gita. Gita did not portray one group against another; it did not say somebody who does not prescribe to the stanzas there will go to hell r should be killed; its core message is righteousness, Karma, responsibilities, universal love etc. It does not say anything about a separated and segregated caste; it talks about an integrated society where different skills and experrtise are required for the advancement of a community — warriors, teachers, traders, labourers etc. It said one can move across these spectrum if one gets the appropriate skills – obtaining skills was not prohibited.

    Obviously like any society, “privileged” groups wanted to institutionalize, giving rise to “casteism”. ..

    The rishi who wrorte Gita himself was the son of a fisherwoman..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    aap bhains ke aage been bajaa rahe ho!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aur sar deewar se patak rahe ho.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    who was the father of that rishi.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shan,
    I suggest, you go on this forum and see for yourself secularism practiced by muslims. Believe me Indian muslims are no different than pakistani muslims.

    Why don’t you use your SUPERIOR intellect (which I had chance to correct multiple time on this forum and then share your experience with us? Read what they think about Hindus. I am sure you are Shantanu not Shafique.

    http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=97999

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    cry my beloved country!

    Maheshappa, the VC of Visishweshwarayay Technical university failed in 7 semesters of his engineering while a student at the Govt Engg college.

    He was appointed for a 3 year term starting 2010. Obviousy, he must have had a connection with the BJP govt for this to happen.

    Now the questions have come up whether he ever passed his BE, whether he has a PhD ((he claims he has)…

    Who are the real enemies of India? Is it Pakistanis or ourselves?

    Just scan the news from the ast two days — 60% of the milk is adulterated, the gifts we give to foreign dignatories are third grade stuff ((but the IAS babus account for it at an inflated price), and now this Vice Chancellor! VTU has 300 Engg Colleges affiliated with it.

    Sir Vishweshwraayya must be turning over in his grave! (if the grave site is not sold to a speculator)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    you may be right about Maheshappa, the VC(?) of VTU in Karnataka. I had occasions to meet him mwhen he was the principal of Reva Institutes, a few years ago. Personally he is a very amiable man. Professionally, he cannot be said tobe close to the BJP, but the owners of Reva are the same people who once funded Narasimha Rao’s JMM MP purchase scam. Therefore it is quite possible that he was “promoted” by the congress leaders too.

    Whatever, as scams go, this takes the cake.

    As for milk in Karnataka, I am drinking only the public sector Nandini milk, which is t aking care of the health of my family.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    “Who are the real enemies of India? Is it Pakistanis or ourselves”?

    That is the statement of the time. It is very easy to find scapegoats (objects of hate) for all the ills the country faces. We have to look within. As usual, your friend will always colour everything in Congress-vs-BJP. How can RSS/BJP ever do anything wrong in someone’s text-book? If there was no Congress, then one would be manufactured to ……

    Right?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Here is one more enemy within

    Pakistani flag hoisting was a Hindutva plot to foment strife, police say

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2790960.ece

    Excerpts

    Meanwhile, members of the district unit of Sri Ram Sene have said the accused do not belong to their outfit but are members of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

    ———–

    Well-placed police sources, however, told The Hindu that the entire incident was carried out at the behest of an elected representative of the BJP, whose political agenda was to foment communal disturbances in the district.

    ————

    If true, then it speaks volumes of a ‘nationalistic and patriotic’ party. Now I wait for the RSS spinners here on the blog to …………..

    Really cry my beloved country.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    education is the most profit making bussines.ur trust has occupied thousands of acre of land almost free for this.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The political drama in Pkaitsan has reached a critical stage.
    Its a soccer match with 3 players , army/isi , judiciary, Zardari. The judiciary, which often acts as a thuggish dirty tricks department of Pakistan’s other criminal entity the army/isi has suddenly become over-active over its annulment of the NRO ( National Reconciliation Order ) that was passed 2 years ago and has threatened Zardari-Gilani with disquaklification. The other judiciary-army sponsored memo-gate circus is also proceeding at a fast pace.
    My guess, you will see the criminal pak-army-judiciary throw the elected-civilian government out within next 30 days.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    judiciary is weak otherwise they would have send zardai and geelani both to jail on charges of contempt of court.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~WE WILL EAT GRASS ~~~ but won’t give up our Jehadi assets and asses ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    This is the key to undersand Pakistan. Just as any musical lesson begins with the sargam… saa re gaa maa…

    Any article or discussion on Pakistan should now begin with this fundmantalist postulate. Even this memogate is a fallout of the scare that Zardari was willing to surrrender the Jehadis to India and the US.

    I think all columnists and writers and experts on Pakistan should now understand the Pakistanis love of their Jehadi assets in case they want to understand the **** mentality.

    In fact Pakistanis should now change their national anthem to

    Pakistan ka matlab kya..
    Jehadi assets, Hafeez saeed walla walla !!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    hafez saeed has very little following in pakistan.he is isi man hardly in news now.

    a bad man.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    BJP minority cell opposes Salman Rushdie’s proposed visit to Jaipur

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_bjp-minority-cell-opposes-salman-rushdie-s-proposed-visit-to-jaipur_1636223

    Opposing controversial author Salman Rushdie’s proposed visit to the Jaipur Literature Festival, Rajasthan BJP’s minority cell has asked the Congress-led state government not to allow him to enter the city.

    ——–

    Will the real BJP stand up and tell us whether they are going or coming?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Manohar

    The real opposition to the Salman Rushdie visit is from the Deoband, followed by the MIM , followed by the COngress, the SP and the entire range of appeasers and jokers. I wonder why , from the footnote of the opposers you have dchosen to highlight the BJP !! Very fishy….

    ANd in case yolu delve into REAL history, the minroites affairs Minister Salman Khurshid had staged a huge violent demonsteration against the VC of the Jamia, resulting in the VC losing his job as well as getting bashed up by the congress lumpens, just becasue the gentle VC had said, ” let rushdie say whatever he wants to.. . we should be mature not to react…”

    Of course since the goondas and the criminals were congressis you probably skipped that news.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay

    Though you tried to obfuscate the point raised by me, I will take your word about the Jamia VC episode (I do not recollect reading it) and I condemn Salman Khurshid and the Congress for it.

    Now two questions to you, not that I am expecting answers.

    1) Do you have any objections to Salman Rushdie coming to India?

    2) More importantly do you approve of the decision of the BJP minority cell to oppose his visit?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Of course I lo0ve the idea of Salman coming here. His Midnight’s children is pretty unreadable. But Shame, his novel on devastating. It gives you a picture of Pakistan which a thousand volumes of commentries don’t.

    Satanic Verses was OK. NOthing which would have hurt a person with a sense of HUmour.

    Of course the BJP minority cell is wrong in opposing his visit. But probably they won’t become aggressive and violent as the SP and COgnress will

    Anonymous Reply:

    Great. You called a spade a spade.

    I am also “touched’ by your belief in the ‘non-aggressive and non-violent’ nature of of the BJP.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Manohar

    Hopefully I would be at jaipur during the fest. Nothing decided yet… I’ll convey ur regards to Salman.. :)

    And also regards on behalf of Engrich :)

    Last time I bimped into Salman… he was lining up… Riya Sen. Life is funny. He was supposed to be married to Padma Lakshmi then.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,
    Muslims whether in BJP or other parties are religion-bound to slam Rushdie because he bared their prophet. No muslims however rational can live if he supports any insult against dictator Mohammad.

    According to me Mohammad was a very smart politicians who used religion with such balance that all his followers feel honored to be his slave. I salute that Dictator for being the smartest politician in the history of mankind.

    engrich Reply:

    crocodile tears

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    a fellow whose house had caught fire, took time to tell his neighbour that his gas chula is burning bright!

    This congressi troll has made common cause with the jihadis on the blog and also the mullahs of Deoband.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Learning from the Italians !!
    —————————————

    At $178 billion, mafia is Italy’s biggest business
    Indo-Asian News Service, Updated: January 11, 2012 14:29 IST
    .
    http://www.yahoo.com/video

    Mafia boss Gerlandino Messina

    Rome: The mafia in Italy — that made around 140 billion euro (around $178 billion) in 2010 through money lending, extortion and robbery — generated far greater money than Eni, the country’s oil giant, according to a new report.

    The report by Confesercenti, a business association representing 270,000 small and medium Italian businesses, said the Rome-based Eni, one of Europe’s top multinational oil exploration companies, registered around 99 billion euros ($126 billion) in sales in 2010.

    The report said the economic crisis has been a fruitful time for organised criminals to exploit businesses who are looking for funds at a time when bank loans have dried up.

    Out of desperation, such businesses turn to mobsters who provide loans at crippling interest rates.

    “The state is working on it, but there needs to be a change with the institutions,” said Confesercenti president Marco Venturi.

    Strapped for cash and unable to continue making interest payments to criminals, around 1,800 businesses were prompted to shut down in 2010, “erasing tens-of-thousands of jobs”, the report said.

    Merchants are the most exposed to loan sharking with “around 200,000 victims suffering 1,300 crimes a day. Practically, 50 per hour and almost one per minute”, according to the report.

    Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/at-178-billion-mafia-is-italy-s-biggest-business-165827?pfrom=home-otherstories&cp

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    you have quoted confescenranti.

    Now, what do the cognoscenti tell you, about the old friendi, the lootmarscenti Quattrocchi? Or is he a small fry and/or considered innocenti?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,
    Don’t worry..Under Sonia the Italian fascist, India too will have Mafia as biggest industry.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Pakistan has huge deficits in all areas – education, budget, culture and history (a generation growing up believing they are Arabs and they do not have anything to do with India/Asia), democratic institutions, land ownership, the list goes on.

    The only area where they have a surplus is Jehadism. This surplus makes the deficits in other areas even wider and deeper because these Jehadis stand in the way of any progress.

    Things would have been better and the country would have taken a different and forward route had they done sweeping land reforms like India did in the 50 s and 60s. Pakistan essentially is an absentee landlord country; the land (or around 70-80% of the land) is owned by a hundred or so families. People have been promised by the elected ones (land lords) and army (landlords) better lives time and again, of course with no results other than enriching the already rich, driving the common man to religion and his children to madrasi.

    It needs more than a mere mortal to turn that country around. They have to have a Mahathma Gandhi, Martin Luther King… or at least a Mustafa Kamal Attaturk.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    In short, Shoeb, you are saying Pakistani society in partcular and most Islamic societies in general need RENASANCE.
    The point I made yesterday, which seemed to hurt our good Professor Shah Alam. Vijay, Shenoy, Rajiiiv, GOPI, mishraji, Shoeb thanks for suporting my thesis or taking disc forward

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sandhuji,
    Was Shoeb speaking about Pakistani society or “most Islamic societies” ?
    Also, did any of Dr. Khan’s posting really betray a feeling of hurt ?
    You may want to point out with evidence.
    On a related note – let me make you a humble suggestion .
    Try looking beyond communal identities and perspectives.
    To put it a lyrical metaphor from one of Raj Kapur’s films,
    “Aasma pe hai khuda aur zameen pe hum….”.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Actually, Shoeb makes a good point about Land Reforms in his post.
    How could this be missed by you ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh, thx gud points raised.
    1. I call spade a spade. In 1930s I wud hv called Europeans bloody savages for millions killed in WWs. In Eightees I wud hv called Ruskie bear savage for steamrolling into Hungary, Czech and Afghanstan.

    But today, world is totally shaken up by islamic terror in general and Pak super terror in partcular. So sorry Islamist terror and talebani style medival thought will be analysed, conemned and solution put front. This is not communal, rather bollywood ishtyle weepy sentimentalty is condemned.

    I do take liberty with shoeb and professors post for I add to what they have said before. Our gud doctor who treats many pts at AIIMS, does suffer from muslim hurt, Shoeb does not. Profesor talks longingly of Sufiism, DR SAHEB THEY BURIED SUFISM LONG AGO IN PAK LALA LAND, THEY NOW SPIT ON SUFI GRAVES AND TOMBS, Sirji.
    mahesh, thx for comment

    [Reply]

    Shah Alam Khan Reply:

    Balwainderji,
    Thanks for the posts where you “thought” you caused a hurt to my Muslim sentiments. Unfortunately you did do some “hurt” but not to my muslim sentiments….may be to my argumentative being! I responded to your post earlier because I thought you wanted some debate on the issue. Unfortunately I was wrong. I should have realized this as you had in the past called me a “Congressi”.
    Balwinder ji not all those who have a Muslim name will support the Taliban just like not all who are against Anna are Congressi. Try to go through my post again and see if there was hurt as a muslim or a sincere effort to put things int he correct perspective. As for sufism in Pakistan, you are right for a change- they spit on it. But Sir I wasn’t arguing a case “for Pakistan”. I was telling you what is different with us, Indians, from our Pakistani counterparts. Mahesh too makes some valid points which go unanswered. Further you may read my reply to Mr. Manohar in the previous pages- hopefully you might see some light there.
    You probably live in the UK, a country from which we should learn the art of living with different cultures, different thoughts and of course different religions. There is never an age to learn and I learnt today when not to answer a scribe on this blog!
    Sorry if this has caused any issues with your perception of things. Will be careful in my future engagements with you.
    Truly,
    Shah Alam Khan
    New Delhi

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Balwinder-
    The issue is whom one marches against. A general movement will never happen. It will be a country by country movement based on the unique situation of the country – such as Egypt, Tunisia,

    Pakistan, in that sense, has a golden opportunity as well as a better historical background to create an “advanced” Muslim country – they have played with democracy, military dictatorship, have core group of intellectuals with an unbiased world view (such as Najem Sethi).. The challenge is how to get out of the current mould, who will be a leader acceptable to all… It is tough

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    श्रीराम सेना ने पाकिस्तानी झंडा फहराया और दोष मुस्लिमों पर डाला11 Jan 2012, Hotklix this Google Bookmarks HUM BHI KISI SE KUM NAHIN

    बेंगलुरु ।। दंगा फैलाने के मकसद से एक हिंदूवादी संगठन श्रीराम सेना के कार्यकर्ताओं ने कथित तौर पर खुद ही पाकिस्तानी झंडा फहराया और यह कहते हुए विरोध प्रदर्शन करने लगे कि इसके पीछे मुस्लिम संगठनों का हाथ है। झंडा 1 जनवरी की सुबह कर्नाटक के बीजापुर जिले में सिंडगी तहसीलदार ऑफिस के सामने फहराया गया था।

    पुलिस ने इस मामले में मंगलवार को एक और व्यक्ति को गिरफ्तार किया। यह इस मामले में सातवीं गिरफ्तारी है। गिरफ्तार किए जाने वाले लोग श्रीराम सेना के सदस्य बताए जाते हैं।

    पुलिस का कहना है कि इन लोगों ने सुबह-सुबह झंडा फहरा दिया और इसका दोष शहर के मुस्लिम समुदाय पर मढ़ने की कोशिश की। मुख्य आरोपी राकेश मथ की अगुवाई में तहसीलदार ऑफिस पर ही प्रदर्शन आयोजित किया गया। प्रदर्शनकारियों ने आरोप लगाया कि इस घटना के पीछे मुस्लिम संगठनों का हाथ है। उनकी मांग थी कि पुलिस जल्द से जल्द उन लोगों को गिरफ्तार करे।

    पुलिस ने तुरंत मामले की जांच के लिए टीम गठित कर दी। जैसे-जैसे पुलिस की जांच बढ़ती गई, पूरी साजिश बेनकाब होती गई। पुलिस के मुताबिक इसके पीछे मकसद शहर में दंगा फैलाना था।

    इस बीच श्रीराम सेना की जिला इकाई के सदस्यों ने दावा किया है कि इस मामले के आरोपी उनके संगठन के नहीं बल्कि आरएसएस के सदस्य हैं। इन लोगों ने अपने दावे को साबित करने के लिए कई तस्वीरें भी मीडिया के सामने पेश की।

    इस बीच पुलिस के आला अधिकारियों का मानना है कि इस पूरे मामले के पीछे दरअसल बीजेपी के एक निर्वाचित प्रतिनिधि का हाथ है। उसी के कहने पर इस पूरी साजिश को अंजाम दिया गया है। उस नेता का राजनीतिक अजेंडा था, जिले में सांप्रदायिक तनाव को बढ़ावा देना। सूत्रों के मुताबिक उस नेता ने अपने इन समर्थकों को निर्देश दिया था कि उसके शामिल होने के सारे सबूत मिटा दिए जाएं।

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    BALWINDER JEE ALL SOCIETYIES NEED CONTINOUS RENNAINACE.BUT HINDUS NEED MOST.U GO TO ANYBODY HOUSE U FEEL AS IF U ARE WALKING IN JURRASIC PARK.MENTLLY BARRING FEW U ARE THE MOST BACKWARD PEOPLE.live on unnessary boasting.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Which is worse?

    On the eve of polls,
    BJP allowing a certain Mr. Kushawaha into its partyfold, then subsequently suspending his membership, with a promise of no ticket or party post?

    OR

    Salman Khursheed, the Union Law Minister, promising a 9% quota for Muslims in UP?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ishwar,

    Very simple. Most of the Indian politicians are worst. They will do anything to win an election and none of those care about the country.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pin drop silence by Congressi trolls.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ishwar

    It is like comparing apples and oranges, however both fall under the fruit named ‘vote-bank politics’.

    As you must be aware, I am against reservations under any labels, economic criteria must be sole yardstick.

    Re: Kushawaha. Whether it will hurt or benefit the BJP will be known only after the elections results are announced and analysed. IMO, this has hurt the BJP as far as its fight against the Congress vis-a-vis corruption.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    For Congressis like Manohar, everything done by Congress is OK but BJP and others are always criminal. This troll doesn’t see that there was vocal opposition in BJP with regards to Kushwaha. He can’t appreciate the fact that there is a party that has some democracy in it whereas Congress is run by Dictators but this troll will never question Congress.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Poor, silly Quattrocchi!

    If he had not run away, nothing would have happened to him on the stolen money front.

    But if he had remained in India, he would surely have been appointed Working President of congress party!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Six hours ago, I had posted link from The Hindu to

    Pakistani flag hoisting was a Hindutva plot to foment strife, police say

    ———

    There has been a pin drop silence. If this had been the work of the Muslims, heavens would have fallen.

    Could one say that there are double standards, damn double double standards and RSS supporters?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Do you really believe this outfit
    Rame Sene – proven bhade ke tattoos -.? They will do anything for any one
    for money. Yes, some one did hoist that flag to create problems, but it
    will never be known who was the culprit behind this. Typical Indian politics.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    I do not if you have read the full news item. Besides what Ram Sene (BTW: their ideology is from the same strain as the RSS). says can be discounted. Read on.

    Excerpt

    Well-placed police sources, however, told The Hindu that the entire incident was carried out at the behest of an elected representative of the BJP, whose political agenda was to foment communal disturbances in the district.
    ———-

    Mind you this a BJP ruled -state. Still no condemnation. I rest my case.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    The only idiology of Ram Sene is money. Nothing else.

    There are many people who believe that Godhra train was
    burnt beacuse Modi wanted riots in Gujarat to teach Muslims
    a lesson. Cannot stop people believing this, similarly such
    incidents like flag hoisiting wil have different versions.
    You will believe what you want to believe.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar/Mohan–
    These tactics are deployed by Muslims and Hindus; let me be frank, significantly more by Muslim groups than any other groups.

    The good thing is that no riots happened. ” What if” is not relevant.

    All political parties – most notably Congress – are perpetrators of this age old trick

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    this incident has been totally ignored by the people of Karnataka and also its political class. Funnily, even the Muslims have understood that this mischief is for getting some mileage in the media.

    But the only media giving it any mileage is the ultra secular Hindu! (Of course the congressie troll has great faith in this paper as well as Ram Sene!)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Noted your point of view.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    If you read the original post, I had qualified my remarks ‘if true’.

    However, it is amazing that there is not even a gentle rap on the knuckles from ……..

    Anonymous Reply:

    What about Digvijay using Batla encounter issue to rake in muslim votes in UP?

    Supporting terror is far serious crime than michevious act of Ram Sene but being a Congressi you have to support Minority appeasing Congress.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well placed police “sources”… says it all.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    this congressi troll is sad that nobody is taking him seriously, nor the ultra secular Hindu.

    In fact, in Karnataka, even the congress and other pseudos are afraid to even touch the matter for fear of losing even their residual credibility.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,
    For Manohar, Digvijay supporting Azamgarh terrorists in UP campaign is worth ignoring but the stupid act by disgrace on-rent Ram Sene is of supreme importance.

    I had long suspected Manohar behaves this way because a certain community in India supports Sonia Gandhi’s Congress blindly because they see her as one of their own. Manohar’s reason for supporting Congress are purely communal.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    are you sure what you say is true?

    You had, earlier too, voiced the same thought, but he has cleverly remained silent. I hope he will say now he actually belongs to Ram Sene!

    Anonymous Reply:

    Looking at this troll’s reply, I am convinced about the reason behind his blind support to Congress led by Sonia. It is purely due to communal reasons.

    engrich Reply:

    zamgarh terrorists

    can u name one.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes– Engrich…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Good one :) add to that Manohar blog’s Digvijay Singh

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Yes, some one did hoist that flag to create problems, but it
    will never be known who was the culprit behind this”.

    Yes, in this particular case, no case will be made out against the culprits allegedly RSS sevaks, because the state is ruled by ………

    ——-

    Yes, typical Indian politics – no party is above board. Hamaam mein sab ………….
    ———–

    I am enjoying the discomfort of some of the bloggers, obvious by the tenor of their posts.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    mohan bhai indian muslims are hard working.creator of wealth want peace to feed his babies.rss benefits from voilence as they are accountable to foriegn voilent agencies.they are paid for these non sense.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    load of cr@p..Bhikmange..need doles for even doing Hajj..

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    they never asked.still they are not thieve like u punjabis.

  • Anonymous

    Till this matter of flag hoisting is settled, read this what has happened to
    RS. 1000 crore Nehru stadium.

    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/randomaccess/entry/rs-1-000cr-nehru-stadium-in-ruins

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,
    Congressis are best in pointing out faults of others. The Congress who rejected quota demand Jinnah and forced partition is now demanding quota for muslims. The congressi lust for power knows no bounds. It has transformed itself as Muslim league of Jinnah. Godse killed Gandhi physically but Congress has murdered Gandhi ideologically.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ rajeev

    Congress is a treachorous party which only has one motive— salute the dynasty.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Unfortunately educated people because of communal reason support congress blindly.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan, Rajeev,

    it is a crying shame. Just imagine a 1000 crore loot, and the stadium is not fit for even gilli danda!

    The congressi troll can hoist the flag of corruption in this stadium!!!!!

    And his jihadi friends will be there to clap and give a boy scouts’ salute!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    Disgusting to say the least. The officials concerned must be punished severely.

    Now it s your turn.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Are we playing Jugalbandi? This troll never ceases to amaze me.. All congressis are like Digvijay always questioning others.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mohan
    We have to get government out of stadium building, road building, and all other economic activities.. Let the govt form rules and regulations.. I am sure big money is spent on the maintenance of this white elephant, theer must be 100 plus bureaucrats (this officer, that officer, cleaner, sweeper…..) who must be getting paid….
    It is a national shame like all other shames.. It is the sign of peopel without character or integrity.. I do not think it has anything to do with Congress govt, but with us the people!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi. Who builds roads and stadiums then

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    GOPI, SHOEB, SCUBA DIVING AND MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD”””””””’

    Friends, a most interesting encounter. On the flight from Cairo to SHARM el Sheikh was a dignitary who was being fawned over. I asked and was told that it was Essam El Eriyan, the no 2 guy in the MB after the Morshid, which means guide in Egypt.

    I went over and introduced myself. To my complete surprise, over that one hour and subsequent conversations, I learnt and gathered the following-

    - he was a doctor !!!
    -he had been imprisoned for years under Hosni-
    - I was surprised, although a scholar of Shariat, he appeared moderate
    -Most Egyptians appeared moderate, and maybe 70% found their support for MB natural and appeared surprised that the world was twitchy about this
    - He had heard of Anna and was deeply appreciative ( you listening Mahesh and Manohar ?)

    Shoeb, you hit it on the head when you said there will be no pan Islamic renaissance, it will be done region by region, according to local conditions and culture.
    Gopi, for months you and Syed bhai had agonised over the Arab spring- WELL, BASED ON MY 2 WEEK STAY AND MY FIERCE POLITICAL PROBING, can I say that at least in Egypt, the spring may bear fruit.

    As for Pakistan- is Imran Khan the new spring- oh please, I may choke on my regulator

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    As for Pakistan- is Imran Khan the new spring- oh please, I may choke on my regulator

    stay one week in pakistan u will find situation better.they are suffering because of american presence in this area.india too is indirecly hurt because of that.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ DUMB RAHUL AND DUMBER DIGVINASH SING WILL DESTROY INDIA ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    Both these uys are shallow. Digviansh was a total failure as the CM and in his ten years had nothing to show as success, excet the personal fortune he built.

    Rahul Lives on the royalty of the books his gr8 grandfather ostensibly wrote. he never worked for a living and the educaton is suspect.

    And now they are doing what rajiv did after he got scared into re-appealing the law on equal rights for Muslim women, and doing what VP singh did by tryin to create caste and religious divides everywhere. Rajiv and VP are both dead, but theri acts of cowardice which caused permanent damage to India…. are being repeated by fools who have ot learnt from history…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Viju

    They and BJP

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    I have seen that BJP remain pretty defensive when it comes to Rahul’s utterances. Is it because of NIA and CBI danda against BJP/RSS leaders?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    The CBI being misused… that is the reason…

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ GILANI JAYEGA, ZARDARI GAAYEGA— ARMY AUR ISI AAYEGA ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    As I watch the TV news it seems likely that a coup may happen in Pakistan. That way Vinod Sharma’s blog was perceptive.

    It just proves the few idiots who keep arguing Pakistan’s case as a “normal” nation. Arre baba… unke khoon mein violence aur duplicity bhar gaya hai. In case you find hafeez and kiyani as liberals… god give u wisdom !

    let us all place bets on whther they would be a coup….

    here is mine. Rs 50 for a coup…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ARMY AUR ISI AAYEGA
    FAKE RAVI CLAP KAREGA
    ENGRICH, THE JIHADI, NAACHEGA
    CONGRESSI TROLL GAAYEGA:
    “PAKISTAN JIYEGA, PAKISTAN JIYEGA”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Pakistan ka matlab kya

    ISI, army aur Mullah !!!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi

    Indian bureaucrats have ‘terrific powers’, rated worst in Asia

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indian-bureaucrats-have-terrific-powers-rated-worst-in-Asia/articleshow/11449860.cms

    Excerpt

    The report said India’s inefficient bureaucracy was largely responsible for most of the biggest complaints that business executive have about the country.

    The complaints included inadequate infrastructure and corruption, where officials were willing to accept under-the- table payments and companies were tempted to pay to overcome bureaucratic inertia and gain government favours, the report claimed.

    The report also highlighted onerous and fickle tax, environmental and other regulations that could make business in India “so frustrating and expensive”.

    It said dealing with court system in India was an unattractive option for companies, and would be best to avoid it.

    The bureaucrats were rarely held accountable for wrong decisions and it would be extremely difficult to challenge them when there were disagreements, it said.

    “This gives them (bureaucrats) terrific powers and could be one of the main reasons why average Indians as well as existing and would-be foreign investors perceive India’s bureaucrats as negatively as they do,” said the report.

    But there were plus points when India was compared to countries within the economic development group.

    In the 2011-12 Global Competitiveness Report of the World Economic Forum, India ranked behind China but ahead of Russia and Brazil for the burden of government regulations as well as for the burden of customs procedures.

    India was also second to Brazil but well ahead of China and Russia for the quality of regulation and supervision of the securities exchange, said the report.

    India was also better than Brazil, Russia and China as the fastest place to set up a new business and to deal with construction permits, and was the second fastest place to deal with export and import procedures, the report said.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    manohar-

    I have always maintained that Indian bureaucrats (IAS/IPS etc) are much bigger problems than the politicians – politicians, whether they are corrupt or not, generally get tossed out in 5 – 10 years; but the IAS corps is there for 30 years, eating way other people’s contributions.

    Many a time, it is the IAS guys who give the stupid ministers (like Raja) advice on how to beat the system

    We have to get out of this British instituted system; otherwise our future is dismal.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    raja was targeted because he wasdalit.though he was wrong as well.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Don’t you think Lokpal would have helped here. Few people severely punished and
    others would fall in line.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan & Gopi

    Lokpal? May be, but I have serious doubts.

    I have articulated these earlier.

    1) Appoint the ‘baabus’ fro period 8 to 10 years at a time (the ‘netaas’ have to go back to the people every 5 years). With lifelong guaranteed employment + pension and with almost no chance of ever being sacked – they are law unto themselves. With shorter time appointments, a lot of deadwood & persons with questionable record can be removed (after due diligence) regularly.

    2) The Government keeps talking about administrative reforms and produces voluminous reports to remove red tape. These have to be speeded up.

    3) Perhaps, laws and acts with less discretionary powers to ‘netaas’ and ‘baabus’ would be also one of the means to reduce graft and faster decision making.

    My feeling is that today we are better off than we were during the Licence-Permit Raj, when the Government was all ‘maai-baap’. Though, corruption may not be less today, on the contrary it may have increased. I have no empirical data.

    4) There are other bottlenecks(e.g. all pervasive inertia in the judiciary) that need to be removed.

    It has to be an all-out war on all fronts. What I have written may seem utopian (perhaps it is), but IMO there is no alternative.
    That is why I have been disappointed (hence my strident opposition) with Team Anna and other civil society groups for targeting wrong issues. They should have and should attack causes and demand reforms the way system works to make things better. Corruption is a symptom not the cause.

    Gopi, you wish to do away the (British style) bureaucracy. What is the alternative?

    PS: There have been remarkable reforms at the district level by the enterprising and do gooder collectors, especially in Maharashtra, many of which became celebrity cases. I will try and dig out info on some of them and post it.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Manohar

    I believe that you did not get a proper response on the issue of “Pakistan Flag Hoisting” by Ram Sene.

    In particular Mohan’s dismissal of the incident and stating the perpetrators being भाड़े का टट्टू left me bemused.

    Applying the same logic, one could actually make a very strong arguement that Afghan Taiban – since they have become the principal recipient of financial donations from the Middle East – are NOT driven not by their blind adherence to a thoroughly discredited idelogy, but instead are merely भाड़े का टट्टू.

    I am afraid I do not buy into that concept. I think it was not a flag that Ram Sene hoisted, rather it was a weather bloon designed to take the temperature of the communal atmosphere in the sate.

    Glad to note that the temperature was ice cold.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    very lame.. Come up with something logical…Dhakkan.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    What else I could have expected from you ? Comparing RSS with Islamic terror and
    Now Ram Sene with Taliban.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mohan

    I am surprised that you are unable to see the similarities.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    We see similarity between you and Islamic terrorists.

    Anonymous Reply:

    There can be no ’surprises’ as far as RSS and its offshoots are concerned. After all the RSS is a ’snow-white’ and a faultless organisation. No question of its apologists ever conceding that it can do anything wrong, instead they will always try and shoot the messenger.

    Anonymous Reply:

    RSS may not be snow-white but it is definitely not anti-national and pro-jihadis like Congress (Diggi supporting Islamic terror).

    engrich Reply:

    rss is not national but international organiztion organization hving ofices all over world.their strings are in hands of cia/final aim (almost achieved)is to establish dictatorship of brhmns in india,

    engrich Reply:

    islamic terrorist never attack and kill hindus or christian like ruffians of rss.
    planting bomb ad throwing the blameonothers.islamic terrorists are fighting imperialism.hile rss cowards kill innocent defnceless citizens.they are worse.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I wasn’t expecting a proper response going by the past experience. Two of them tried their known tactics – obfuscation and label plastering.

    It reminds me a USA TV programme and its Hindi clone.
    The Moment of Truth – Sachh Kaa Saamnaa.

    Truth/Sachh is very discomforting for some.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    It looks all the Congressis represent people from real life on this blog.
    1. Ravi – Afzal Guru (ideological terrorist)
    2. Kasab – Enrich (Real terrorist)
    3. Manohar – Digvijay Singh
    4. Mahesh – Sharad Pawar (no one understand what he is muttering)
    5. Prahalad – Rashid Alvi
    6. Shan – MamataDi
    7. Shenoy – Advani
    8. Vijay Kumar – Jaitley
    9. Balwainder – Ahluwalia
    10. Misra – Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi mostly off the point

    others including me are samanya karyakartas.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Expected better , you are lowering your self to the standard of balwinder sandhu, I am sure you can do better. As to why 70% of bengali speaking people in undivided india was Muslim, will give a considered response , after some research

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    I think MamataDi is very honest person..Don’t you agree?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    As an individual SHE IS PEERLESS , despite Gopi’s claim , there has not been like her in Kerala nor in India , BUT BUT BUT , she GETS ALL THE MONEY FOR RUNNING HER PARTY FROM CALCUTTA MARWARIS, THE CONDUIT IS A GUJRATI IN HER KITCHEN CABINET

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    When I see Laloo, Mulayam etc. who grew as anti-congress leader licking feet of Sonia, I find behavior of ex-congress women Mamta shining example of self-respect.
    She may be loud and too protesting but her heart is at right place.
    Believe me I have great respect for Bengalis who have self-respect but the ones who converted for the fear of getting killed don’t deserve to be called Bengalis.

    engrich Reply:

    very good rajeev u are genius

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Thank u !! That’s really nice to hear!!

    Though Shenoy’s poetry does remind me of Atal …

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Balwinder

    I think that the nub of the difference between what you were trying to say to Dr Saha and he understood is your use of the word Renaissance. Reformation probably would have been a better word.

    Your argument then would have been that Hinduism and other religions of the world have gone through a series of reforms and as a result have successfully modernised their ideas. Whereas there is evidence that Islam has not only resisted any major reform, it is instead regressing into more rigid medieval ideas.

    Had you done that then, Dr Shah probably would have reacted differently.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ravi saheb,
    india is the only country where cows and monkeys can be found roaming on railway plateform and other buildings of national importance.illegal temples have come up in every corner of the india.u will call this hindu rennainace.this is revivalism.hindu samaj has become rich but their attitude towards women and poor has not changed,no.of bhagwans have increased.even sikhs are copying hindus.so the muslims.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Congress’s strategy in UP-
    1. Dalit Card
    2. Use CBI to force Mayawati to keep mum and concede space.
    3. Sops for Weavers etc.
    4. Quota for muslims
    5. Show fear of BJP to muslims
    6. Use Ajit Singh to corner Jat votes (Jats are famous for Dalit hunting)
    7. Misuse power of center and keep everyone in fear

    BJP’s strategy
    1. Corner OBC votes even if it means accepting super corrupt BSP discards like Kushwaha.
    2. Woo Brahmins
    3. Oppose muslim quota to polarize hindus
    4. Keep low profile while slamming Congress especially foolraj for fear of NIA and CBI

    It looks like Congress has better strategy, opportunistic but far better. I think people will be wasting their vote if they vote for BJP. They should vote for Congress-SP-BSP combine. At least these parties together will cater to 80% people of UP in their own ways. All three are experts on distributing Khairat and this is what UP people love…Baithe Baithe Note gino..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Digvijay has given a very strange logic to muslims in Azamgarh. According to him, he and Congress party believe that batla encounter was fake but UPA govt. headed by Congress’s Manmohan and Congressi HM Chidu don’t think it was fake.

    Does it mean Congressis are competent to find out the truth but congressi govt. is not?

    Shan, Can you decipher this great logic for us because we don’t expect anything logical from Congressi and Jihadi troll whom you unknowingly protect and encourage?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Even Digvijay himself would not be able to decipher what he had said.
    No one can decipher rubbish.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Some people have tried to decipher this rubbish..just watch Idiot congressi on the debate-

    http://khabar.ibnlive.com/videos/65520

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    According to him, he and Congress party believe that batla encounter was fake but

    there is no doubt that batala encounter was fake like anyother encounter.purpose was money not deshbhakti.sit chiefs(mostly brhmns)were charging 30 crores for such acts.WHY THEY ARE NOT HAPPENING NOW.DURING NDA THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS WERE MURDERED.cheque accounts of sit chief to reach truth.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    US news networks reported today about Gilani firing the secretary of army. The pundits are f the opinion that Kayani was not consulted on this, and that he will stage a coup.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Muslims were 30% of total population in Indian sub-continent in 1947. After partition almost 67% of muslims became part of west & east pakistan and remaining 33% muslims who were abandoned by their richer brothers remained in India.

    The muslims living in Pakistan and Bangladesh are enjoying 100% reservation in their country. Now the muslims living in India too are demanding 100% reservation for their community.

    It looks like dream of Jinnah who wanted 100% quota for all muslims is becoming true.

    Then what was the need for partition? Why did 1 million hindu-sikh and muslims loose life in partition.

    If we want to give quota to muslims in India, we should merge with pakistan and bangladesh and dissolve India as a nation or we should send all the muslim who want Quota to pakistan and bangladesh that were created for SUB-CONTINENTAL muslims.

    India is not a Islamic state yet..either make it Islamic or accept the truth behind partition of India.

    If congress persists with its muslim league line, we may end up with civil war where millions of life will be lost. It may not happen in our lifetime but it will surely happen. No one in their wildest dream in year 1858 would have imagined the carnage that India witnessed in 1947. Similar carnage was repeated in 1971 during Bangladesh liberation. The time has come to tell both pakistan and BD that they should stop claiming muslim-majority land..It is time they start claiming Indian muslims and display true spirit of two-nation theory.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    this is outdated old storey.all part of bharat mata should be equally strong is new mantra,

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You muslims have habit of stealing rights of others so STFU.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rubbish

    engrich Reply:

    Why did 1 million hindu-sikh and muslims loose life in partition

    partition was engineered by nehru ghandhi and terrorists of rss.casaulities of muslims were far higher than hindus.there was no population transfer class why u people come to india and spoil it.u people are source to most of the problemsin india,specially corruption and prostitution.better u go back to ur place of origin.

  • Anonymous

    Who is truly communal?

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/Specials/Coverage/Assembly-Elections-2012/Chunk-HT-UI-AssemblyElections2012-UP-TopStories/Will-look-into-fake-terror-cases-Rahul-Gandhi/SP-Article10-795854.aspx#disqus_thread

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rahul is right.why bjp people oppose enquiry commission.truth should not be afraid of investigation.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    balwinder,

    hindus in india are destroying our water resources during their life by taking bath in hundreds of millions every year.reducing our forest by burning millionsof tons o fwoods each year.and throwing their deads in rivers.ghndhi was brought by brhmns mainly to check british reforms started with the help of enlightened intellectuals of bengal.he was hindu revivalist.
    is it rennainace u are claiming.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Even Jews are not far behind in issuing silly “fatwas”

    http://news.antiwar.com/2012/01/10/israel-moves-toward-religious-ban-on-haagen-dazs-citing-sages/

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    they also dont allow women to sit in front rows of buses as they considered inferior to men .in islam women is equal but area of activity is fifferent.in muslim country women is privilegged class.not to stand in line.fatwas issued by muslim institutions are mostly right.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    different

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–~~ I AM A MINORITY— help me please by reservation !!~~~~ !!! ~~~~~~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    Dear Vinod Sharmaji

    As member of the National MInorites commission can you forward my case for reservations? I am a member of minority

    I belong to a family which ran away from Pakistan when communal rioters led by JInnah inspired speeches asked my grandad to convert… or get killed !! And he came… with just two bags, including a peetal lota… :)

    I am a minority in Delhi now, as Punjabis– once in a majority — have been vastly outnumbered by new migrants from all over the country out here…

    I am a minority when I enter the ladies compartment of the Metro by accident and all the dainty ladies glare at me as if I am an octupus with eight hands out to grab them…. :)

    Sir, I am definately a minority when I travel by Air France and Quantas… and they refuse to serve vegetarian dishes which I love… and am forced to eat their tasteless preparations…. OOOOOOOOOWWWWW 40% discount wanted as a minority !!

    When I try talking in Munich in Punjabi or HIndi– my mother tongues– I am a minority becasue the Germans give that F.O look— gross racial discrimination. Reservations wanted please….

    And I am a minority when in a bar… I choose to order whisky when everyone is trying cocktails. Please please reservations and free drinks wanted, curtesy NMC !! :)

    To top it all when I see all the pretty maidens on the roads and I stare at them… my girl pulls my ears… when other girls dont do it to their men…. !! Minority commission pleae please do something….. !!

    ANd ahem yes !! Years back… when I entered a nudist beach in Maldives… I chose NOT to follow the crowd being of Bhartiya values… I was truely a minority…

    Hai Ram !! Hai Allah Hai Jesus !! Iss desh mein minorites ke saath kya atyachar ho raha hai…!!!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay

    Really really Funny !! I guess I too am a minoirty… a CA in a family of bureaucrats !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vinoo

    I think we are the only country in the world which wants to destroy its democracy by this minority business. Wish someopne had the guts to stand up !

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    no u people has small heart.only know take dont want give.slave blood mentality.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Instead of asking for reservation you should ponder over what keeps the Muslims educationally backward all over the world.

    a) Bad Sharia laws which discriminate against women

    b) Fatwa weilding mad mullas who believe that koran and hadith are final word in science and society

    c) hatred of all other religions like christianity, hinduism, jews, buddhists, ahemadiyas etc

    d) closed minds which thinks arabs are direct descendens of the prophet and the parents of all Muslims.

    engrich Reply:

    vijay this shows how ignorant u are.u are brainwashed by rss propaganda,brhmnsm finishes the thinking power of man,

    1.sharia law for women is the best in the world.discuss any point i am ready to awnser.
    2.guidance from hadith and holy quran is spiritual side .worldly affars and in science muslims are 1000 time more than u people.
    3.hatred has no place in islam.so it bullshit.biggest cross exist in dubai.not in europe.
    4.bullshit who told u this.

    this shows u are not knowledged person.u are victim of zoinist/brhmnst propaganda.whose thoughts are away from reality.
    all ur 4 points are wrong.

    engrich Reply:

    if descrimination because of religion then reservation because of religion.what is wrong.

    engrich Reply:

    we are not asking they are offering because they want to of rule.satta ka bhog.

    if decrimination is because of religion why not reservation.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    you must be entering the ladies compartment of Metro after a visit to the bar, which is understandable.

    But then your discerning powers wouldn’t be all that sharp.

    Actually, the ladies, each one of them, must be wondering, deliciously, with eight hands where all you can grope and fiddle, twiddle and needle, all at the same time!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am hand and tongue tued on what answer I should give !

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    presented to mohan t,dr mishra jee,dr shan,ravi(ideological terrorist),by a real terrorist.

    दिल की बात औरंगजेब हिन्दुस्तान प्रेमी था …… ?
    विजय बाल्याण Wednesday January 11, 2012
    32

    अंतिम शक्तिशाली मुगल सम्राट औरंज़ेब के विषय में जो प्रचलित था उसी के आधार पर मैं ये ही मानता था की औरंज़ेब एक क्रूर शासक था ….. किंतु जब मेरे एक ब्लॉग पर कुछ कोमेंट आए तब मैने यहाँ वहाँ से कुछ जानकारी प्राप्त की तो पता चला कि औरंज़ेब एक अच्छा और न्यायप्रिय सम्राट भी था| यहाँ पर वो ही तथ्य लिखे हैं जिनका आम लोगो को तो क्या अधिकतर को नही पता …

    ….. उन सभी लोगो का शुक्रिया जिन्होने मदद की इस लेख को लिखने में ………. !

    अबुल मुज़फ्फर मुहिउद्दीन मुहम्मद औरंगज़ेब आलमगीर (4 नवम्बर 1618 – 3 मार्च 1707) जिसे आमतौर पर औरंगज़ेब या आलमगीर (स्वंय को दिया हुआ शाही नाम जिसका अर्थ होता है विश्व विजेता) के नाम से जाना जाता था भारत पर राज्य करने वाला छठा मुग़ल शासक था| उसका शासन 1659 से लेकर 1707 में उसकी मृत्यु होने तक चला|

    औरंगज़ेब ने भारतीय उपमहाद्वीप पर आधी सदी से भी ज्यादा समय तक राज्य किया| वो अकबर के बाद सबसे ज्यादा समय तक शासन करने वाला मुग़ल शासक था| औरंज़ेब की चाहत थी कि भारत एकता के सूत्र में बँधे, इसी कारण से अपने जीवनकाल में उसने दक्षिणी भारत में मुग़ल साम्राज्य का विस्तार करने का भरसक प्रयास किया|

    औरंज़ेब का महिमामंडन कुछ इस प्रकार से किया गया है कि उसको हम एक हिंदू विरोधी शासक ही मानते हैं …….

    औरंगज़ेब के शासन में मुग़ल साम्राज्य अपने विस्तार के चरमोत्कर्ष पर पहुंचा| वो अपने समय का शायद सबसे धनी और शक्तिशाली, शातिर व्यक्ति था, जिसने अपने जीवनकाल में मुग़ल साम्राज्य को साढ़े बारह लाख वर्ग मील में फैलाया और 15 करोड़ लोगों पर शासन किया जो उस समय दुनिया की आबादी का 1/4 भाग था| पूरे हिन्दुस्तान को एक करने वाला अकेला औरंज़ेब ही हुआ उसने अशोक और अकबर से भी बड़ा साम्राज्या विस्तार किया था|

    इतने विशाल साम्राज्य को चलाने के लिए धन की भी ज़रूरत होती है, धन एकत्रित करने के लिए उसको बहुत से कठोर कदम उठाने पड़े थे| पूरे साम्राज्य पर फतवा-ए-आलमगीरी (शरियत या इस्लामी कानून पर आधारित) लागू किया और कुछ समय के लिए गैर-मुस्लिमो पर अतिरिक्त कर भी लगाया| गैर-मुसलमान जनता पर शरियत लागू करने वाला वो पहला मुसलमान शासक था| औरंगज़ेब ने जज़िया कर फिर से आरंभ करवाया, जिसे अक़बर ने खत्म कर दिया था। बहू संख्यक हिंदू वर्ग पर ये एक कठोर कदम था|

    निष्पक्ष और कठोर ……

    औरंज़ेब शासन के मामले में बहुत क़ायदे क़ानून वाला था, वो सभी को एक जैसा समझता था, उसकी इच्छा थी की ताजमहल को गिरा कर फिर से शिव मंदिर बना दे ताकि हिंदू वहाँ पर फिर से पूजा कर सक����, लेकिन मुमताज़ का शव वहाँ दफ़्न हो जाने के कारण ऐसा नहीं कर पा रहा था…

    औरंज़ेब को विदेशी और कोई भी मानवीय अत्याचार पसंद नहीं था …

    1612 में अंग्रेज भारत में आए थे| अँग्रेज़ों ने यहाँ शासन करने के लिए हिंदु����ं और मुसलमानो को तोड़ना शुरू किया| लेकिन वो हिंदू और मुसलीम जल्दी टूट गये जो पहले राजा हुआ करते थ���, किंतु अपनी विलास���ता और असमर्थता के कारण अपना शासन ठीक प्रकार से ���ही चलते थे, और उनकी असमर्थता के कारण औरंज़ेब ने उनके राज्यों को अपने साम्राज�������य में मिला लिया था| औरंज़ेब के इस कदम से वो उसके खिलाफ साजिश रचने लगे…| वो इतना उदार था की उनको पकड़ने के बाद भी उनको मौत की सज़ा नहीं सुनता था….. बल्कि वो उनको बख़्श देता था ……

    लेकिन कुछ शातिर लोग पूजा पाठ का नाम देकर मंदिरों में हथियार छुपाने लगे| जब काशी के मंदिर में आग लगी तब औरंज़ेब को पता चला की हिंदू साजिश रच रहे हैं| औरंज़ेब ने उन हिंदुओं को पकड़ना शुरू किया जो अँग्रेज़ों से मिल कर साजिश कर रहे थे| उन्हे जबरन मुस्लिम बनाया गया| इसके पीछे मकसद था कि इस्लामिक राज्य बन जाने के बाद में एक ही दिन सबको छुट्टी या सबको बोनस दिया जा सके और सब पर नज़र रखना आसान रहे| लेकिन ज़ब्रन वाली परंपरा सिर्फ़ बागी सामंतों के खिलाफ चलाई गई, पूरे हिंदू समाज पर नहीं….| औरंज़ेब ने जितने भी मंदिर गिरवाए उसकी जगह वहाँ मस्जिद बनाई गई… लेकिन साथ ही उसने मंदिर भी बनवाए और मस्जिद भी गिरवाए थे ….

    औरंज़ेब की आदत थी की कोई भी व्यक्ति किसी राज्य से आ कर फ़ारियाद सुना सकता था और इंसाफ़ माँग सकता था…| औरंगज़ेब इसकी तहक़ीकत करता था… अगर सच में वहाँ के शासनतंत्र में ऐसा कुछ अनर्थ होता था… तो वो वहाँ आक्रमण कर के उस राज्य को अपने राज्य में मिला लेता और वहाँ की जनता को चैन देता था ……| औरंज़ेब की ख़ासियत की एक कॉपी लिखी गई थी, उसके मरणोपरांत और जब नेहरू जी भारत एक खोज लिखा रहे थे तो वो कॉपी उनको रेफ़्रेंसे के लिए दी गई… लेकिन बाद में नेहरू जी ने ये कह दिया की वो कॉपी उनके पास से खो गई है…. और उन्होने अपने इतिहास भारत एक खोज़ में औरंज़ेब की एक भी अच्छाई नहीं डाली….| औरंज़ेब राज्य कोष के पैसे से एक निवला भी नही ख़ाता था…वो टोपी बुनता था और बेंचता था… साथ ही वो सूफ़ी मार्ग को मानने वाला था तो ऐसे वो सूफ़ी प्रवचन देता था, संगीत वध्य यंत्रा बजा कर, क़ुरान की आयतें दूसरी भाषा में लिख कर जो कमाई करता था… उस से ही उसने अपना और अपने परिवार का पेट पाला…. राज्य ��ा पैसा जनता का है…. ऐसा मानने वाला शायद ही क्रूर होगा|

    औरंगजेब एक हिंदू लड़की से शादी करना चाहता था, लेकिन भाइयों को पसंद नहीं आई ये बात और सबसे पहले उस हिंदू लड़की और उसके परिवार को मार दिया गया और औरंज़ेब के हत्या की साजिश रची गई क्यूँ की वो इस्लाम के खिलाफ जा रहा था| ये वो ही हिंदू ब्राह्मण परिवार था, जो तेजोमाहल के पुजारी थे ( तेजो महल जिसके उपर ताज महल खड़ा है)|

    नाथ द्वारा जो की राजस्थान का तीर्थ स्थल है वाहा आज भी औरंगजेब की गौ शाला है जो औरंगजेब ने उन मंदिरो के लिए दान दी थी और उस जमाने मे 100 गाव का कर उस मंदिर मे देने का ताम्रपत्र भी जारी किया था जो 50साल पहले तक मंदिर के द्वार पर लगा हुआ था लकिन कुछ महापुरुषो को यह बात कैसेहजम होती की हमारी आने वाली पीढ़ी मुगलो की इज़्ज़त करे सो उसे हटा दिया क्यो पिछले 15 सालो मे एक अजीब सा इतिहास लिखा जा रहा जो सच को छुपा रहा है सिर्फ़ इसलिए क्योकि कही ऐसा ना हो की वो इतिहास पढ़ कर आने वाली पीढ़ी मुगलो की इज़्ज़त करेगी| औरंगजेब जिसने कभी अपने निजी खर्चे के लिए एक पैसा भी राज कोष से नहीं लिया| रात को ट������िया सिला करता था |
    औरंगजेब के शासन काल के बाद, हिन्दुस्तान की बाग डोर संभालने वाला कोई नहीं रहा (मतलब काबुल से कन्या कुमारी तक एक अकेले शासक में इतनी क़ुबत नहीं रही, और फिर से छ्होटे छोटे तिकडों में हिन्दुस्तान बाँट गया) और अँग्रेज़ों ने अपना जाल बिछाना शुरू कर दिया था, औरंगजेब के विषय में उस काल के इतिहासकारों ने वोही लिखा जो अँग्रेज़ चाहते थे| जिसकी भ्रांति आज तक समाज में फैली है|

    [Reply]

    shekhar gandotra Reply:

    @ Engic

    yeh Kya bakwas post kiya hai. I think you are fake Ravi. Both use hindi font and cut paste of propgandas to defame Indian

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    unfortunately it is truth.written by a brhmn.it is praise for india not defame.no ruler in the history of mankind can equate him.richest man of world,earning his food himself.

    alexder was nothing before babar.he wa hyped because he christian baber was demonized being muslim.

    u can challenge anything u feel is wrong.this cut and paste drom navbharat times POST BY VIJAY BALYAD.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think Enrich has not read it properly. In this write up, it is being claimed that Aurangzeb wanted to raze Taj mahal and convert it into Tejo Mahalya Shiv temple.

    This Enrich guy is such a fan of Aurangzeb that he posted most stupid blog AGAINST Aurangzeb.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Ravi , Shoeb , Shan,
    From Wikileaks – US to pressurise EU govs. for GM food.
    Read on at :
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/03/wikileaks-us-eu-gm-crops
    and
    http://naturalsociety.com/us-start-trade-wars-with-nations-opposed-to-monsanto-gmo-crops/
    Notice the particularly telling Vatican angle the US gov. is trying to wield in Guardian link. Woulda been more hilarious if it were not so scary.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The top marketing director of Nescafe manages to arrange a meeting with the Pope at the Vatican.

    After receiving the Papal blessing, the Nescafe official whispers, ‘Your Eminence, I have some business to discuss. We at Nescafe have an offer for you. Nescafe is prepared to donate $100 million to the church. If you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    The Pope looks outraged and thunders, “That is impossible. The Prayer is the word of the Lord, It must not be changed. ” Well,” says the Nescafe man somewhat chastened, “We anticipated your reluctance.
    For this reason, and the importance of the Lord’s Prayer to all Catholics, we will increase our offer to $300 million. All we require is that you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to Give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    Again, even more sternly, the Pope replies, “That, my son is impossible. For the prayer is the word of the Lord and it must not be changed.”

    Finally, the Nescafe director says, “Your Holiness, we at Nescafe respect your adherence to your faith, we realise that tradition is essential to your beliefs, we fully understand the importance of the word of the Lord …………. ….but we do have one final offer. Please discuss it with your cardinals. We will donate $500 million to the great Catholic church if you would only change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’. Please, please consider it.”

    And he leaves. The next day the Pope convenes the College of Cardinals. “There is some Good news,” he announces, “and some bad news…… The good news is, he continues to a hushed assembly, ‘ that
    the Church will get $ 500 million.”

    “And what is the bad news, your Holiness?” asks a Cardinal.
    “Sadly” says the Pope,.

    The top marketing director of Nescafe manages to arrange a meeting with the Pope at the Vatican.

    After receiving the Papal blessing, the Nescafe official whispers, ‘Your Eminence, I have some business to discuss. We at Nescafe have an offer for you. Nescafe is prepared to donate $100 million to the church. If you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    The Pope looks outraged and thunders, “That is impossible. The Prayer is the word of the Lord, It must not be changed. ” Well,” says the Nescafe man somewhat chastened, “We anticipated your reluctance.
    For this reason, and the importance of the Lord’s Prayer to all Catholics, we will increase our offer to $300 million. All we require is that you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to Give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    Again, even more sternly, the Pope replies, “That, my son is impossible. For the prayer is the word of the Lord and it must not be changed.”

    Finally, the Nescafe director says, “Your Holiness, we at Nescafe respect your adherence to your faith, we realise that tradition is essential to your beliefs, we fully understand the importance of the word of the Lord …………. ….but we do have one final offer. Please discuss it with your cardinals. We will donate $500 million to the great Catholic church if you would only change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’. Please, please consider it.”

    And he leaves. The next day the Pope convenes the College of Cardinals. “There is some Good news,” he announces, “and some bad news…… The good news is, he continues to a hushed assembly, ‘ that
    the Church will get $ 500 million.”

    “And what is the bad news, your Holiness?” asks a Cardinal.
    “Sadly” says the Pope

    The top marketing director of Nescafe manages to arrange a meeting with the Pope at the Vatican.

    After receiving the Papal blessing, the Nescafe official whispers, ‘Your Eminence, I have some business to discuss. We at Nescafe have an offer for you. Nescafe is prepared to donate $100 million to the church. If you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    The Pope looks outraged and thunders, “That is impossible. The Prayer is the word of the Lord, It must not be changed. ” Well,” says the Nescafe man somewhat chastened, “We anticipated your reluctance.
    For this reason, and the importance of the Lord’s Prayer to all Catholics, we will increase our offer to $300 million. All we require is that you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to Give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    Again, even more sternly, the Pope replies, “That, my son is impossible. For the prayer is the word of the Lord and it must not be changed.”

    Finally, the Nescafe director says, “Your Holiness, we at Nescafe respect your adherence to your faith, we realise that tradition is essential to your beliefs, we fully understand the importance of the word of the Lord …………. ….but we do have one final offer. Please discuss it with your cardinals. We will donate $500 million to the great Catholic church if you would only change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’. Please, please consider it.”

    And he leaves. The next day the Pope convenes the College of Cardinals. “There is some Good news,” he announces, “and some bad news…… The good news is, he continues to a hushed assembly, ‘ that
    the Church will get $ 500 million.”

    “And what is the bad news, your Holiness?” asks a Cardinal.
    “Sadly” says the Pope,.
    .
    .
    The top marketing director of Nescafe manages to arrange a meeting with the Pope at the Vatican.

    After receiving the Papal blessing, the Nescafe official whispers, ‘Your Eminence, I have some business to discuss. We at Nescafe have an offer for you. Nescafe is prepared to donate $100 million to the church. If you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    The Pope looks outraged and thunders, “That is impossible. The Prayer is the word of the Lord, It must not be changed. ” Well,” says the Nescafe man somewhat chastened, “We anticipated your reluctance.
    For this reason, and the importance of the Lord’s Prayer to all Catholics, we will increase our offer to $300 million. All we require is that you change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to Give us this day our daily coffee’.”

    Again, even more sternly, the Pope replies, “That, my son is impossible. For the prayer is the word of the Lord and it must not be changed.”

    Finally, the Nescafe director says, “Your Holiness, we at Nescafe respect your adherence to your faith, we realise that tradition is essential to your beliefs, we fully understand the importance of the word of the Lord …………. ….but we do have one final offer. Please discuss it with your cardinals. We will donate $500 million to the great Catholic church if you would only change the Lord’s Prayer from ‘Give us this day our daily bread’ to ‘give us this day our daily coffee’. Please, please consider it.”

    And he leaves. The next day the Pope convenes the College of Cardinals. “There is some Good news,” he announces, “and some bad news…… The good news is, he continues to a hushed assembly, ‘ that
    the Church will get $ 500 million.”

    “And what is the bad news, your Holiness?” asks a Car
    .
    .
    .
    .
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..




    ….
    ….
    ….
    ….

    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..




    ….
    ….
    ….
    ….

    We would have to lose the Britannia Account…… ………. ………
    ………….and take on with the Nestle!
    ….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    now you have reached the pope!

    This is blasphemy! what will our in-house crypto-Christian say?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    cry my beloved country!

    - An old patient in ICU at a Jodhpur govt hospital dies yesterday of rodents/rats eating his body parts – nose, eyelashes, body flesh…..

    - The central minister for Child Welfare, Tirath, has requested a fund of “2 lakh crores” to eradicate child malnutrition — Well, he and his cronies and the bureaucrats in Child Welfare depts get to loot this! Corruption will be democratized across other departments (like Child welfare; who would have thought there is money to be looted there), not just PWD or registration!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    Still there are people who oppose Lokpal.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    mohan

    Fear is a big motivator – fear of getting caught or a fear of being killed or paraded in public.

    I am all for parading these guys (and gals) like the Chinese model. I wish the Maoists organize and plan kidnappings of senior bureaucrats all across the country instead of picking up constables and teachers.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rats eat 25%of our crop.we dont kill them because he is vehicle of ……….

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    You kiss black stone but not piss on it because it is cornerstone of ….

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    but rats are hurting poor indian.they eat their food.u are master in writing non sense.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohammad recommended drinking Camel piss from the source…read hadith..

  • Anonymous

    Some more on GM – this one appears quite intriguing.

    “New research shows that when we eat we’re consuming more than just vitamins and protein. Our bodies are absorbing information, or microRNA”
    Read on at :
    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/01/the-very-real-danger-of-genetically-modified-foods/251051/
    More than the article itself – comments on the article are quite a read.
    p.s. : Anybody knowledgeable here please feel free to explain what micronRNA means.
    p.p.s.: A curious observation – this posting was gobbled twice. Posting it for the third time.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh,

    A big yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwn.

    But, I still admire your considerable capacity to bore and divert and then scoot.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,
    It may be boring but is very informative and important. We can not see everything thru the lens of politics.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Amen !!!
    Now, how does one say it in Ghati ? ;-)

    Anonymous Reply:

    You showed us how you say in Ghati…Are you not the same one who justified Raj Thackrey’s tirade against North Indians?

    You will remain a misal pav eating Ghati whatever you do in life.

  • Anonymous

    @Mahesh , been quite busy with my work recently , thus couldn’t come back with a reply to your earlier query about GM food. Nature does GM work all the time . Plants surive due to CROSS POLLINATION , also all the hybrid cows , doesn’t seem to do great deal wrong. However MONSANTO has taken things to an another level altogether. It’s like adding to a processor a micro chip , but it has nothing to do with silicon , it is from a different world , say rubidium or whatever.
    Studies have shown in INDIA COTTON CROP YIELD HAS DEFINITELY INCREASED AFTER INTRODUCTION AFTER GM SEEDS, curiously the yield has not increased in DEVOLOPED WORLD, ie USA ie, soya bean(90% GM). the reason may be , poor yield in India was due to CROP FAILURE due to fungus , which was carefully managed in USA anyway, thus GM made a difference in India but not USA.
    HOWEVER PESTICIDE AND FERTILIZER USE IS DEFINITELY REDUCED.
    Now Health risks.
    I went to site , the link for which you kindly provided.
    Well it is only ONE study , and that too CHInese.
    Also all it says is , like somebody saying ” a man was seen few months before the bomb explosion”
    To explain micro RNA , I will have to give tutorial on Cell Biology. You can imagine any living organism like a HOUSE , whose building block whatever the shape or size of the house is a BRICK. That brick is a cell . Centre of the cell is the NUCLEUS, a bit like like the ATOMIC NUCLEUS at the centre of an atom. DNA is a huge molecule , which has CODES in its constituent nucleic acid backbone . They come in triplet .Like Adenine Guanine Cytosine , they will stand for a code for allowing a CERTAIN amino acid to line up by gluing to RNA. DNA and RNA is same, one is DEOXY , other is not not DEOXY , meaning it has oxygen in the RIBOSE ,(R stands for Ribose) which is a sugar molecule , like hexose , pentose etc.
    RNA floats freely in the cell , thus called messenger RNA , and transfer RNA.
    The NUCLEIC ACIDS have FIXED PAIRING , like guanine with cyosine , adenine with thymine. Messenger RNA is created by lining up COMPLIMENTARY FIXED PAIRING of nucleic acids with the CODES (as previously mentioned AGC, so RNA will have TCG) this may consist of 100 such triplets , for each representing a amino acid.
    This is now “off loaded” by the same game rule of fied base pairing to another RNA called TRANSFER RNA, who now does the END PRODUCT of lining up amino acids according to the CODE RULE, an array of amino acid is protein , which is EVERYTHING SO FAR THE CHEMICAL PROCESS OF LIFE IS CONCERNED, like enzymes , receptors , hormones the lot.
    Micro RNA is just a FRAGMENT OF THE BIG MOLECULE.
    kNOWING RNA’s complimentarity , the WORRY is it can influence DNA, and after this IMAGINATION RUNS WILD as to what it can do.
    MODERN MEDICINE IS STATISTICS.
    The best way to know if GM food is harmful is to conduct DOUBLE BLIND RANDOMISED TRIAL , between two groups , one feed GM , the other non GM
    , then anayse data after REgression analysis , P value , , Confidence Interval , THE LOT.
    The other is WHOLE SCALE EPIDMEOLOGICAL SURVEY , looking for ANY INCREASE IN INCIDENCE OF ANY PROBLEM SINCE GM IS INTRODUCED.
    This is my CREED , that is SCIENCE as opposed to RABBLE ROUSING

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Wonderful explanation, Shan. I have Science background, biological sciences and chemistry is not my forte – it is Mathematics and Physics, that helped to understand.

    PS: Lets have more of this, so that the rabble rousers yawn more, go to sleep and there will peace and quiet on this blog.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Great explanation. What we need is scientific approach in India rather than depending on some CHINESE research. It is time we concentrate more on domestic research and find out what kind of seeds are better suited to Indian conditions.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Thanks. Nice explanation. Especially the part where you say – “kNOWING RNA’s complimentarity , the WORRY is it can influence DNA, and after this IMAGINATION RUNS WILD as to what it can do. ” .
    Plus the part related to randomised trials and the epidemological surveys.
    BTW, posted a link couple of days back about irregularities of field trial results carried out by Public sector orgs. Will try to post it again later.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @mahesh Addendum: Micro RNA , these are bits of RNA which do note CODE , but hang on to the coat tail of RNA . But due to fixed base pairing
    rule , can pair with complimentary nucleic acids in Transfer RNA , as mentioned below Adenine to Thymine, Guanine to cytosine , thus can “modulate” the activity of transfer RNA . They are found in plant cell and also in human cells , so it is thought , probably important , otherwise the logic goes , if unimportant , the evolutionary seive would have filtered it out , and would not see in higher organism . IT IS FAD OF THE MOMENT , like ONCOGENES were in 1990’s. iT IS THOUGHT THESE mICRO RNA may have some role in prostate cancer , lukaemia.
    BUT PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN DOUBLE BLIND RANDOMISED STUDY, not theoretical and lab speculations

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Prof Shah Alam, sorry I hurt, never my intention. As u know, here in UK, hindus and chinese (65%) are at top of education ahead of whites even, while muslims and blacks are at rock bottom (57%). Also most crime is by muslims and blacks as cingular dr shan said.
    So sirji, muslims need RENASANCE or reformation as Ravi put it, nothing to get upset about. I went thru hell in eightees tiiill I started saying Khalistanis are evil, no if no but, TRY THAT DR ALAM
    Now, SECOND DOCTOR, Mishraji yr report on Muslim Brotherhood was very readable, you do move in charmed circles sir. Why hell dont Indian journalists write like you, u could write yr own column. But are you swayed by fact that their leader was also a doctor?? Pl u dont forget that Zawahiri and Assad are also docs hehe

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    sidekick of panditji in action. Muslims in Uk are in inordinate number in jails , due to a combination of factors. Muslims have the most number of YOUNG ADULTS amongst their population. Only Young are driven to crime , and religious fanaticism. Also most of the muslim population is POOR, due to
    their concentration in North of England , where all manufacturing job have withered away , large family as a ploy to get more benefit from social security , to combat poverty. SIKHS ARE ALSO EXTREEMELY HIGH NUMBER IN PRISON , given there are only 400 000 of them .
    Sikhs are in prison because of Crookery , Domestic Violence , , Muslims, many are serving for terrorism related offences.
    THERE IS NO DENYING HINDUS(mostly gujus) and others are pretty law abiding chaps. ALSO SIKH’ STUDENTS ACHEIVEMENTS ARE SAME AS MUSLIMS, it is only Hindus who have done well , OF WHICH IT IS MOSTLY WHOSE PARENTS ARE FROM PROFESSIONAL CLASSES.
    Folks from WEST BENGAL (probably 10,000) have done extreemely well.
    The Director of LIBERTY is SHAMI CHAKRABARTI.
    BBC’s Science presentor is PALLAB GHOSH, there was ITN’s Shiuli GHOSH now gone to Al Zazeera. Mihir Bose is the most respected sport journalist , as is Amit Roy of The Telegraph. These are High profile , but 90% of the folks are professional class , so it is no wonder their children will do well

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    thanks shan for balance views.everybody will agree to u.Butmuslims are last to be hired and first to be fired.this drive them to crimes.u should be proud that in crimes also,indian muslims are hardly involve.bangladeshis are most then
    pakistanis.reason is rampant unemployment.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I dont think you should let your confused undersrtanding of statistics confuse other bloggers. Muslims are in jail in higher numbers — per thousand of their population in many countries becasue fo a variety of reasons, like neglect of womons rights, rejection of modern secular education, supermacy of Shaira and madrassas etc.

    By trying to put forward statistical lies, you are not heloing the Muslims to actually see the proper picture.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    like neglect of womons rights, rejection of modern secular education, supermacy of Shaira and madrassas etc

    sattar choohe kha ke billi haj ko chalee.

    26000 hindu women are burnt alive in and delhi yearly.billions of women were burnt alive in sati and naari prathas.it is only u people who gift ur daughter to pujarees of trmples.i never heard like this in any muslim country.

    90%of the muslim countries have percetage of education more than 90%.during muslim rule percentage of education in india was 93%.education was free.

    muslims in britain are from poorest part of india and recent emmigrant.sikhs have 3rd/4th generation.so they are better than recent emigrants.
    why balwinder is equating orange with apple.in indian subcontinent education indicators of bangladesh is better than india especially women.bengalee muslims were dalits poorest of poor.

    so comparison is wrong.it is nothing but boasting.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Engrich

    I tink you should try to understand my answer by reading it again and again. In case I can reverse brainwash you into accepting a love for humanity… I will buy myself a round the world ticket as a prize.

    engrich Reply:

    islam is only rligion which says man is born equal irrespective of caste and colour.hinduism is the only religion which says men are born unequal.

    engrich Reply:

    So sirji, muslims need RENASANCE or reformation

    yes muslims need rennainace.u people are finavially but mentally u are more backward than us,that is why 49%of our women are enemic.u are rich naudauletie who dont understand rhe things.muslims are comng from most backward areas of india.bangladesh and pakistan(except punjab (lahore)otherareas were most backward of india.so they are.but thet are taking up very fast will reach near to u people soon.

    i asked many queation i asked u.u should awnser.if u people are not controlled u will destroy our water resources,our forests and animal habitats.our economy is hurt daily as crores are removed from economy through donations in temples.our economy and country is hurt daily due to bad traditions.

    rennainace in india was startedby bengalee intellectuals with the help of britishers dstroyed by revivalists.
    tell me except some money ,what u changed due to rennainance.
    if u dont change soon pakistan will beat us,as their base is better than us.

    i am thankful to mishra jee for informing us about his visit to egypt.i will keen to know more.i used to hate muslim brotherhood more than u.zoinist media is very powerfull.they have started the same game in libya..i also request u read more about aurangzeb.he presided over biggest economy of india.he extended the boundaries of india,he spent his life in saving the integrity and unity of india.that is why our enemies demonized him.why nehru did it is suprising.those who say 100000 were dying early.ask them where are the graves.his main battles was with glittering muslim empire of bijapur and golkunda.he demolished when they wanted to seprate.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    DOCTORS, TERRORISTS AND IDIOTS

    Notice I said below some doctors can be terrorists and hard men- Ayman Zawahiri and Assad of Syria.
    Some like cingulate Dr Shan below are just plain idiotic, if someone can detect 1 gramme of culture and dignity in his random vomit posted below, pl inform me.
    Last week the moron said NON MATERIAL life of the poor in UK is worse than beggar in India who lives on edge of disease squalor and slums.
    Today the moron says sikhs perform educationally as bad as blacks and muslims in UK. I challenge this vomit inducing doctor to produce evidence. Siks are quite simply vaary affluent and educationally advanced.
    F PIG DR SHAN PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR SHUT UP

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Balwinder,
    Don’t get over excited over the issue of sikhs performing below par. The truth is majority of sikhs in UK are Khalistanis and behave like muslims always whining.
    You may be an exception but it doesn’t mean all the sikhs are like you.

    One fake sikh sympathetic to Islamic Jihad is glowing example of such elements.

    Shan,
    It’s high time you stop sikh bashing. Now you will accuse me of muslim bashing. Let me tell you I am not against tolerant Ahmadiya or Sufi or other faiths. I have problems with likes of Ravi and Enrich the Wahabis polluting spiritual side of Islam with Islamic politics.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    i dont know about ravi but i am sufi.90%of sunni muslim are sufi.ahmadiyas are very little in no.problem with them is political nature.attack on their mosque was bad.most probably this was done under
    cia zoinists instructions.
    ahmadiyas are very staunch practising muslims ,definitely more than sunnis.
    i dont know if u are anti-muslim or not.but u use abusive language against muslims and our prophet(pbuh).i awnser u in ur language.very disgusting very bad.
    a class of indians have become rich.but their mentality is same.there is lot of difference between our liberals and european liberals.

    in europe ,prime minister or minister has to resign if he is blamed for 200pouns here modi is dreaming to be PM.even his home minister is c caught in money extracting and fake encouter scandal.pakistan is worst than here

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    I dont think you should let the behaviuor and intention of the fake sikh Ravi, color your vision and perspective of Sikhs staying outside India, In my travels and the time I have stayed outside I have found NO resonance of Khalistan movement in the Sikh community. Yes pockets do exist. as is evident on the net. However by making blanket, sweeping statement, you would only alienate more people rather than bridge the divide.

    The khalistan movement was felt by me at close quarters in the time I spent in Punjab in the early eighties. Believe me the reason is what Rahul and Digvijay is doing to the Muslims today. First create an artificial feeling of discrimination. Then pretend to be a saviour.

    Unfortunately the Congress did he same in 1980. When Indira gandhi came to power again, it dismissed the state governments. Zail Singh tried to prop Bhindranwale who spun out of control. The Akalis adopted a rhetoric which was meant to match Bhindranwale.

    Sadly after a decade of violence and Pakistani support, becasue of Sikhs called KPS Gill and Harchand Singh Longowal, thinggs came under control. Today worldwide, there is a realisation among Sikhs that a landlocked country with a small area can never be a success, especially with Pakistan in a state of collapse.

    manmohan Singh’s elevation bridged all the divide which still remained.

    I may have a hundred differences with Balwinder. But I would never wuetion his love for the tiranga, unlike many who come here with an intention of eating India with a termite like agenda.

    I think Shan too is badly and sadly wrong in converting his personal fight with balwinder into a communal tarring thing.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    You can imagine my respect for sikhism from my statement from heart “Next life I want to be born as sikh and be true sikh of Guru Gobind Singhji”.

    engrich Reply:

    why u dont convert.sikhs can be converted.sikhism is good religion no doubt.i could not under balwinder.sikhism stands for egalitarianism,while hindus are born unequal.how he says that he is hindu.

    brhmns tried a lot to put ban on guru granth saheb,but akbar refused.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am not like you..Convert for bag of rice or for fear of sword.

    When I feel like, I’ll take decision.

    You can remain an arab slave forever.

    engrich Reply:

    what an stupid awnser.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You convert and teach others your cowardice..what a muslim!!! Coward..

    engrich Reply:

    hinduism consists of brhmns and its slave .slave leaves when they get better opportunity.there are many reasons.a bag of rice is not.only last week one of famous sikh singer emrassed islam.20 million hindus are working in different muslim countries,i never heard anybody converting.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    one of your best, most cerebral posts.

    I do hope Shan gives up his Nirad posture and gets his spine up ans say, “I AM PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN”.

    I have lived in Delhi for 23 years, five of them as a tenant of a Sikh landlord and all the 23 years living and working in predominantly Sikh localities.

    Even today, after leaving Delhi 17 years ago, I am firm in my belief that Sikhs are fine as friends, colleagues, landlords, customers and business partners.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    You are right. Sikhs make the best friends. And in case you are in trouble … they would be always tehre and even risk their own neck for it…

  • Anonymous

    Credit where credit is due…

    Many Muslims in MP ignored the Fatwa of Deoband etc and participated in the “surya namaskar” exercise (organized to get into world record books like Guinnes)

    Congratulations , Indian Muslims!

    Now a challenge to the organizers – why dont you organize similar “bring people together” to build 100 houses, coach 500 students etc

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I fully agree. The muslims have shown that they are no more living in 80s when Shahi Imam used to act a vote bank Dalal, giving out fatwas to vote for a SECULAR party.

    Well done!!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    three cheers and applause for Muslims who threw a shoe at the fatwa weilding brigade !! Hip HIP HOORAY !! Cmon guys… join the mainstream… welcome to a world of freedom….

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    vijay they dont have any option.beggers are not chooser.this is another proof of brhmncl gunda gardi.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Engrich

    You should do surya namaskar. Once you will worship the sun, you will forget to worship Osama, hafeez Saeed and Ravi. :)

    engrich Reply:

    it is not a question if i do or idont do.i should not be force to do.namaz is a mulim yoga nowhere in the world we forced hindu students to do it.

    Anonymous Reply:

    He should actually do sheershansan, all the while chanting “Allah, Allah….”.

    This part of his body is starved of oxygen and nutrients, resulting in his bile getting vomited on this blog.

    Anonymous Reply:

    He should actually do sheershansan, all the while chanting “Allah, Allah….”.

    This part of his body is starved of oxygen and nutrients, resulting in his bile getting vomited on this blog.

    engrich Reply:

    fatwa is advise.this fatwa is totally right.

    engrich Reply:

    shahi imamnever had any following mong muslims except few areas of jama masjid.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes he was like Kapil Sibal then

    Anonymous Reply:

    Now Kapil Sibal is the legal Imam of the congress party. His word is law to Sonia Gandhi, never mind all his “wise counsel” has landed the party in trouble and ridicule.

    engrich Reply:

    in europe liberals will come out on streets to fight against this injustice.in iraq war millions of european came on streets against iraq war.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    it i not a question of fatwa.in secular country.goverment schools should be secula like europe america and canada..this is an act brhmncl gundaagardi.surya namaskar bring no profit to man nor it is part of hindu tradition.only brhmns2%)used to do this.these brhmnsts are enemy of national unity,destroyer and destructor of our water and ecological resources.they are hurting india with all possible way since their invasion and occupation of india.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    The Brahmana Jati Party (BJP) is weak in Kerala because its job is being effectively carried out by the state’s two neatly divided political fronts ÑÊthe Congress-led UDF and the Marxist-led LDF. The beauty is both the fronts are united in keeping the Brahmin-Nair rulership in tact

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    In a debate on Suryanamaskar, one Muslim gentleman claimed on Times TV that the sun, moon and the stars are there to serve us and we cannot bend our heads in reverence to these celestial entities. He said they bow their heads only to Allah and not even to their parents.

    As for organising house construction, I think there are several projects all over India Like Rajiv Gandhi Awas yojana etc.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Muslims – world over and in India – have been ignoring Fatwas as bizarre as those proclaiming earth being stationary or even those against Vaccines.
    So, are not we tad too conveniently selective in congratulating the “Indian Muslims” ?
    Also, going by the congratulations floating around here one would’ve expected millions and millions of Muslims (sorry, Indian Muslims) to marching out – cheered by other communities from sidelines . But then, no such thing.
    Did I miss something on the streets past couple of days ?
    Maybe somebody could please explain the fixation with communal identities ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh

    A) “Fixation with communal identities”?

    These are one of the labels to identify their objects of hate and then go hammer and tongs Otherwise how else do they get their daily fill?

    According to them, the Indian Muslims have to show evidence regularly of their Indianness by participating in rituals and ceremonies as ‘defined by the honchos in Nagpur.

    B) One wonders whether yesterday’s ‘nautanki’ in MP resulted in “MP shining (pun intended)’ and the state has leapfrogged into the league of developed states of the country?

    That MP may get into the Guinness Book of Records (and Limca Book of Records, if it is still around) is a fringe benefit – now the state will rub shoulders with man with longest nails, longest moustache, biggest turban, …………

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    WOuld you be happier in case Muslims were given a false sense of discriumniations as dumb gudda Rahul and Digivnash Singh are doing by calling 26/11 a RSS ki Saazish and Batla House encounter a fake….

    Wah ji wah…

    Anonymous Reply:

    What makes you think that I support whatever Rahul Gandhi and his advisers blabber day in and day out? Show me the evidence and then say ‘wah ji wah’, otherwise go take a walk.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I have never seen you critical of Digvinash SIngh or DUmb gudda Rahul.

    All this brohaha about Surya Namaskar is bull shit. If we start following a religious text for everythign we do… there would be no internet but only a religoius text out here. Muslims are stupid to demand minority status everywehre. The whole world expects them to follow a text written 1400 years back and does not allow them to think otherwise.

    Tell me one para in Hadith which says… men can play hockey or cricket… one para which allows you to sing the National anthem… one para which allows yhou to wear anything other than white or black….

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay

    A) “I have never seen you critical of Digvinash SIngh or DUmb gudda Rahul”.

    What is your point? That I have to prove my credentials as per your standards? Let me turn around and ask – you are never critical of the RSS/BJP leaders? Actually there is thundering silence always, when confronted.

    If you ever care to read (which you do not seem to) my interactions with Gopi, Mohan, Ravi and others or even with you – I will be critical of anyone. For example, in this blog or the earlier one – Mohan had given a long list of monuments/roads, etc. named after your favourite punching bag – the Nehru Gandhi family – take the trouble of reading my comments. It was sarcasm all the way directed at the family and the Congress as in this case of this namaskar business too.

    B) I am not the keeper of Islam and Muslims. So ask those questions somewhere else.

    I have slammed the mullahs and anyone.

    Re: Surya Namaskar – I have to slammed any Muslim or anyone who participated, only the Government there which undertook the nautanki. The time and effort could have well been spent (at least by the adults) in shramdan in some remote village building a school or health centre or something that would be useful.

  • Anonymous

    Pl. look at the comments on this news item. I guess racism is part of white culture..It is truly unbelievable.

    New Jacksonville Jaguars Owner “Shahid Khan” Claims Real Fans Are Season-Ticket Holders

    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201201/nfl-owner-claims-real-fans-are-season-ticket-holders

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ SO MUCH FOR GM FOOD !! ~~ which rich Americans and Europeans reject ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————-

    There is nothing like organic food. And why do I say that ?? I own a small patch of land along with my brother. We grow Amala on it. Who buys it from us??

    THE RICHEST AMERICANS AND THE EUROPEANS THRU THEIR AGENTS IN INDIA AFTER GETTING FULL AUTHENTICITY THAT THIS IS 100% ORGANIC, NON GM, PESTISCIDE FREE !!!

    So funny !!

    The MNC’s will make all the world growm GM food as they supply seeds. But eh owners fo the MNC’s will eat…. TRUE ORGANIC FOOD FREE FROM CHEMICALS !!

    Wahw Wah Wah !!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    It proves one thing, whether we like it or not, that Americans are very intelligent,
    they sell junk, which we grab believing that it is the purest form of food and they
    themselves consume the pure – organic – food.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ MOhan

    Organic pestiscide free food is the best food possible. At times it does not look sexy. But that is God’s creation.

    The challenge is mass production requires strong breeds to feed the 700 crores of this world. I think hybrids is the way to go and NOT GM.
    Mad scientists have periodically put the DNA of ANIMALS into plants to get bigger foods. Bovine (cattle) DNA have been a primary source.

    It may sound science fctionish and fun. It could be a huge cancer causing health disaster in the waiting. With an end result that the soil too could be poisoned.

    I think we need to be cautious about GM foods and use GM plants for non edible purposes like cotton.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Agree with you. If GM plants poisons the soil then even cotton should not be grown.
    It is like most of the policies propagated by our politicians, where they only look at
    short term benefit, while overlooking huge loss in the future.

  • Anonymous

    Yesterday one of the muslim panelist on the debate regarding Rushdie’s India’s visit said “We can accept indecent language against Allah but not Prophet Mohammad”.

    I just want to ask muslims why do they consider Mohammad higher than Allah? Are they actually worshipping Mohammad all the time unknowingly? If that is so, isn’t it Kufr?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    I just want to ask muslims why do they consider Mohammad higher than Allah

    it is option of muslims not urs.u give importance to rushdie because he hurted muslims.nothing else.

    rushdie should be allowed to come.india is his birth place.forgiveness is the supreme virtue of islam.he has already for his sins.3 of his wives has taken divorce.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    he has already paid for his sins

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Wow!!! internal affair business…what about when you keep lecturing us on caste system?

    The fact is that Allah is just a myth created by Mohammad. He is the god for muslims in reality.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    again u are speaking bullshit.allah is all powerfull prophet mohd(pbuh)was messanger.he is only prophet who established his religion in his lifetime.now half humanity follow that message.that is why he is loved and respect like jesus to christian or gurunanak to sikhs.we consider him normal man.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Why is then that you are ready to accept indecent remarks against all powerful Allah but not against his so-called messenger?

    You should read history of Arabia, claiming prophethood was kind of fashion during Mohammad’s time. Mohammad won and became the only prophet else you would be worshipping some other prophet today.

    engrich Reply:

    i will not accept any bad remarks even against lord ram.my first adopted name was ram autar.
    worldly matters can be point of discussions not religious.

    Anonymous Reply:

    So convert to hinduism because Lord Rama is 1000% better than heathen Mohammad.

    engrich Reply:

    another bullshit.i have read history of arabia.he was the first person who declared that all human being are equal.in hislife he fought for that this.that is why servant and owner eat in the same plate.

    engrich Reply:

    ness…what about when you keep lecturing us on caste system

    u too can discuss message.

    engrich Reply:

    bullshit all powers with allah prophetmohammed(pbuh) is only messanger.we respect him as he fought for liberation of humanity.

  • Anonymous

    First an apology and a retraction . I cannot claim Sikh children are as underacheiver as the muslim children in UK. This is because Sikhs are lumped into Indian as ethnicity , yet when it comes to religion they are given a separate status. All the results I researched , only breaks down on ethnicity , white , indian , pakistani , bangladeshi , afrocaribbean etc . No breakdown on the basis of religion.BUT I HAVE READ IT SOMEWHERE , but as I cannot give proof I HUMBLY RETRACT , TILL I HAVE THE DATA ON RELIGION , then Dudh Ka Dudh , Pani Ka Pani.
    @Rajeev I hold no prejudice against sikhs , infact against anyone , for my only objective is truth.
    The truth is they are very hardworking , women folk participate in labour force , my GREATEST ADMIRATION “they suck the brits like anything”, for if you have decided to stay , then atleast you should be grateful.
    Their downside , DARU , DOMESTIC VIOLENCE , MASSIVE INCLINATION FOR HERA PHERI , DAYEEN (WITCH) mother -in laws

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Punjabi ho ya Gujarti, Sindhi ho ya Bengali,
    Shaan pyaare mat de kisi ko gaali,
    Jab bhi aaye kisi par gussa,
    Yaad kar Ma Durga Kali

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    absolutely fantastic MOhan !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan,

    naa naa karke pyaar shayari se kar baithe!

    I am loving it.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Their downside , DARU , DOMESTIC VIOLENCE , MASSIVE INCLINATION FOR HERA PHERI , DAYEEN (WITCH) mother -in laws

    main problem with punjabis(whether hindu or muslim)is ,JAHAN INKEE QAUM KA EK BANDA BHI RAHTA HAI,WAHANQANOON NAHIN RAH SAKTA.

    sikh are better in education line because they first immigrant hence financially more better of.moreove they are proleteriat,hence education is the only source
    to earn money.why so much boasting i dont understand.bengalis and gujju are ahead of sikhs..muslim community in india is passing through silent educational revolution.soon will be at par with u.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ask balwinder bhai,if his community has anybody equal to saeeda warsi,minister in cameron cabinet.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Looks like Ravi has been called over to the ISI headquarters to be on site when Kayani and co take over.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    May be he is wailing at the situation in Pakistan. He may be instructed to do some terror acts against India to keep pakistan united.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Brahmins wary of Behenji

    http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Brahmins-wary-of-Mayawati/899124/

    —————-

    excerpts

    A) Dikshit added, “I refused to meet Chief Minister Mayawati even when she invited me, because of the complaints I had heard about upper caste people being made to sit on the floor in her presence.”

    @ Of course, one has to sit on the floor(*) in the august presence ‘Her Mighty Imperial Majesty’ – ‘Empress’ Mayawati. What these Brahmins were expecting? That they would be allowed to sit at ‘eye to eye’ level? How ‘naive’ of them to think so?

    * How else she can looked own upon others?
    ———

    B) Interestingly, Mayawati, in her speech in November last year at a Brahmin rally, took pains to explain the benefits she had given to Satish Chandra Misra’s family members and relatives for their services to the party. She said this in an attempt to dispel the notion that Misra and the community were sidelined by her.

    @ Wot? Only one Brahmin family in UP?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————-
    ~~ HOW DUMB GUDDA RAHUL AND DIGVIANSH INSULT BRAVEHEARTS ~~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    In the quest for votes, the Congress is willing to destroy India and cause unnecessary heartburn to India. Their game is to create an artifical divide between Muslims and the rest fo the world and push Muslims on to the path of failure and disaster.

    MC Sharma, a braveheart died fighting terrroists at Batla house. A fact testified by the the Home minister Chidmabram.

    But…

    Dumb Gudda Rahul and Digivinash SIngh went to Azamgarh and called the encounter fake. And then told Muslims that they were being discriminated against. In the same manner as they had called 26/11 a RSS ki saaziash.

    Naturally the Congress sycophants will only say wha ji wah at the Dumb Gudda’s slyness. These are the sort fo things which resulted in Punjab burning in the eighties.

    Of course Amar SIngh and Arundhati Roy will also and have done the same thing…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Whoever seek the votes on the basis of religion and caste and in process create
    disharmony among religions and caste are the real traitors of our country.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Absolutely. This dumb man Rahul Gandhi should first rule a village and then think of ruling a city before he is sent to rule the country.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    bjp spread ant-muslim hate compaign based on lies to attract high caste hindu votes.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    MC Sharma, a braveheart died fighting terrroists at Batla house.

    truth should not be afraid of investion.batala house case must be investigated if large section of society demands this.otherwise they will feel that DAAL MEI KUTCH KALA HAI.

    mc sharma was not killed by so called terrorist.he was shot by police man of his team by mistake.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    26/11 a RSS ki saaziash

    no doubt that sacred hindu brhmnst are secret perpetuators af all the voilent acts
    in india.only day before yesterday, they installed pak flag in muslim area,to start communal riot.their qeinch for blood is limitless.they want continous blood bath and inter community and interrelogous war everywhere.in india.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    qeinch for blood is limitless

    sorry their thurst for blood is limitless.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    ——-Onion India Breaking News from Two Parallel Universes—–
    ===============================================
    From the Stereotyped World ……
    Millions of Muslims took to the streets today demanding and celebrating their right to perform Surya Namaskaars. Attired in saffron kurtas with dark black imprinted text that read – “I am Mitra Ravi Surya Bhanu Khaga Pusha …….” – millions of Indians belonging to the Islamic faith celebrated their new found freedom from insane Fatwa that barred them from performing Surya Namaskaars. In fact, the atmosphere had such fervour that a few could even be seen discussing how to export the Surya Namaskar movement to the neighbouring Pakistan.
    The mood was best represented by Ahmed, a Muslim hailing from the city of Kolhapur (Maharashtra) . “I was OK accepting Earth as stationary Object, Vaccine as the invention of infidels or even dis-allowing Women folk from working. But this fatwa about Surya Namaskar – it was way too much. What do these clerics think they are doing ? ” Asks Ahmed in a infuriated tone. Expressing camaraderie, several non-muslims were seen clapping , encouraging , applauding and cheering the “Surya Namaskar muslims” from the sidelines.

    In the meantime, somewhere in a parallel universe named “Reality” – those millions of muslims continue with their day-to-day drudgery called life . Boarding trains, haggling with vendors, competing with colleagues for higher positions, trying to douse the economic in-securities , relishing life as it comes – in the process not really worried or even knowing about those fatwas issued by some religiously minded nuts. Just the same way other non-muslim Indians go on with their life. Not too many non-muslims seem to be worried too about their muslimness. The muslims themeselves don’t quite appear to be thinking in any special terms about their being muslim. Yet another religion I inherited from my parents – shrugs Ahmed.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    tell me the source.surya namas is brhmnst gunda gardi.

    Indians belonging to the Islamic faith celebrated their new found freedom from insane Fatwa that barred them from
    it is freedom it is brhmncl slavery.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is a satire . Did you read it fully ?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    sorry thanks.

    engrich Reply:

    people of india want jobs and food not surya namaskar.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Muslims need job and food not 5 time meaningless namaz.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    Indeed it is a pleasure to see Indian Muslims behaving as they used to before the current phase of religious radicalisation started.

    In my previous posts I have suggested that there are many Ram Lila’s in India where Muslims fully participate – many times taking the role of Sita. There were no Fatwa’s in those days, though the Deobandi School was still there.

    I believe that this fatwa issuing phase will pass and life will be as it used to be. When religious leaders as well as politicians realise that no dividends are being delivered by this communalisation of our society then they will move on to other issues.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    babri khatam ann shuru
    anna khatam surya namasfar shuru

    great indian circus.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ravi bhai,being libral,i want awnser from u,

    goverment schools all over the world are run on secular principle.why rss run goverment is forcing students to do surya namaskar,which their religious authority says is unislamic.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ram Autar

    I am not sure if any one was forced to do any form of religious observence.

    An event was held and people were able to join if they wanted to, it seems here that a lot of Indian Muslims saw no problem with it.

    That is because ordinary people do not see any objection in follwoing some simple observations if they are against their own religion.

    This is tolerence.

    engrich Reply:

    they see problem but they have no option.it is like notorious vande matram.islam dont allow this.moreover goverment schools of secular countries should b secular.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    There are two aspects to religious radicalisation. One is of masses and the other ones are religious extremists in various forms.
    IMHO, the bizzarre fatwas emanating from the religious nuts *don’t* hold much sway over the masses. A corollary here is Indian masses are *not* radicalised as much as they are made out to be. The case for radicalisation is overblown and overstated, actually lot of plain hot air devoid of any reasonable evidence except a few anecdotes here and there.
    To be sure – we have been there , seen that variously. Sometimes as a build-up of 1992 when masses (both Hindus and Muslim) had started getting radicalised as part of 1992 build-up and as a fall-out of the terrible period. However, that phase is behind us.
    Visible part of the problem is obsession with communal identity in public discourse which gives undue importance to bizzarre diktats of religious nuts and further implicitly assigns representative status to these nuts which is way off the mark. As time goes that would be reduced too to what it is – a cliche from the stereotyped universe.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well, time, Oh time….
    As time goes human character remains same – greed, envy, aggression, all remains, take new forms with new instruments.
    I for one really believed we are past the age of wars. I never thought in this time and age something like Iraq war will happen.
    As to Muslim vs other violence and related issues, it is destined to continue.. Time will not be the healer or changer; but some form of “reformation” of Islam as many indicated here. Catholics/Christians have gotten out of Old Testament with unimaginable contributions to quality of life improvement; Islam has to get out of the chains of the Book and Maulvis

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    Thanks for response.
    Am rushing for a call now. Will make a post later on Islam Reform topic. We can discuss there on.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    “I believe that this fatwa issuing phase will pass and life will be as it used to be”.

    I certainly hope so, but …………

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rahul Ghandy gave an impromptu press conference on the steps of Batla House this evening.He was sporting a bright red Tshirt with a slogan in yellow, “I LOVE LeT”
    (light emitting triode)

    He was in a fiery mood and answered the questions with GAY abandon. Here are excerpts of the Q&A.

    Q: Was Batla House a fake encounter?

    RG: Of course it was.

    Q: Where is the proof?

    RG: Digvinash Singhji has all the proof. In fact, whatever he thinks is fake is fake. For example, he said 26/11 was fake and it turned out to be fake.

    Q: 26/11 a fake?

    RG: fake in the sense, it was all RSS saazish. to get at Karkare.

    Q: Do you have so much faith in Shri Digvinash Singh?

    Rahul Ghandy: Faith? absolute faith. He is not only my mentor, he is my guru, my Sancho Panza, my birbal, together we are like Laurel and Hardy, To my nau, he is tanki. Together we perform the best nautanki this side of the Suez canal. Any more questions?

    All newsmen together: Rahul Baba hamesha baba hi Rahe!
    Aap dono ki nautanki amar rahe.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Q: Was Batla House a fake encounter?

    RG: Of course it was.

    Q: Where is the proof? he asked enquiry commission to establish fact what is wrong in it.

    awnser shenoyv

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Q: 26/11 a fake?

    RG: fake in the sense, it was all RSS saazish. to get at Karkare.

    Q: Do you have so much faith in Shri Digvinash Singh?

    he never said anything like this.BUT WHY NO ENQUIRYCOMMISION WAS NOT FORMED TO ESTABLISH TRUTH.

    SHENOYV AWNSER.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    waiting awnser.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Briloliant !!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mahesh

    You hit the nail on the head – re: last para.

    I hope you have read my response to your earlier post.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,
    Thanks. Saw your earlier response too. Somewhere the resulting discussion got degenerated into Rahul / Digvijay and all that.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Nothing new. Obfuscation is an ‘art’ practised by the Hindutva apologists, when they are discomforted and have no defence.

  • Anonymous

    @Bloggers et al , Yesterday was 150th birthday of SWAMI VIVEKANANDA.
    I DONT THINK INDIA HAVE PRODUCED ANY SON LIKE HIM SINCE HIS DEATH.
    These are few anecdotes from his life.
    He foisted HINDUISM on the world stage , and defended it from the onslaught of proselytization drive by Christianity and Islam.
    1. Once the Rana of Mewar asked him “How could you justify IDOL WORSHIP, after all it is mere mud and straw. Swamiji asked the Rana to bring his portrait(Rana) hanging on the wall. Then he asked him to spit on it. The Rana was taken aback .
    Swamiji said “Why , it is mere paper and ink” . Similarly when we worship we dont worship the idol , but what it represents. The human mind needs something to focus on , the idol merely serves that purpose , that’s why we immerse it in ganges after the festivities.
    2. He began his speech to the WORLD CONGRESS ON RELIGION in Chicago with the words “MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF AMERICA”(The original can be heard on You Tube). There was a EIGHT minute thunderous applause and standing ovation after that line . For Americans had only heard HEATHENS , INFIDELS , KAFFIRS AND PHARISES.
    3.He was a Supreme Rationalist. While sailing to England on ship , he told Jamshed Tata , SCIENCE IS THE KEY TO INDIA’S SALVATION, and exhorted him to form the INDIAN INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE.
    4. He told Kids , rather than study scripture at home , they should go out and play football , as it good for mind and body.
    5. In one of his essays which I read in school , he takes a dig at the MORONIC caste system. He writes “Thank goodness for the British , for once Bramhin and Kayasth are made to feel being of the same order.” .This was in reference to the NATIVE CLASS in the ship , where all Indians are lumped together. The title of that essay was Gaon Na Mane Khud Thaharey Mukhiya”
    THE GREATEST OF ALL
    He confessed CARNAL THOUGHTS HAVE TROUBLED HIM

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    perhaps the only indian in living memory SWAMIJI acheived what no one manged to do in 1600 yrs SINCE THE BIRTH OF ISLAM.
    He converted a muslim as his disciple SWAMI MOHAMDANANDA (see wikipedia)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Some more AND VERY RELEVANT FOR CURRENT INDIA
    Swamiji said
    INDIA NEEDS A VEDANTIC MIND AND AN ISLAMIC BODY

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    You are right 1000%. There is no one like him. He is true hinduism.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    he was forced to eat his words by surender nath banerjee before giving him public reception.afterwards he was ignored died as destitute.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mohan

    Is it time for ST to walk into the sunset, should he keep going on for that 100th …?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is time for the CROOKS in BCCI to walk into the jails , and SHAMELESS indian team which had done more damage to India’s Image (Aussie remark “Indians are weak (read wimps)”) than anything or anybody including A raja or Kanimozi have been able to do

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Come on, Shan

    It is only a game. ‘haar jeet to hoti hi rehati hai’.

    Some of the ’senior’ players now have to be given marching orders after this test or the series.

    They say ST will not retire till he gets that elusive thing and the BCCI does not have the wherewithal to tell him enough is enough (‘maaf karo, bahot ho gayaa’).

    Recall Kapil chasing Sir RIchard Hadlee’s haul of 431 test wickets (avg 22.20) in 86 matches. Our man took 131 matches (45 more, phew!) to go past at an avg of 29.64 and then promptly retired.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    Like all PATRIOTIC Indians (also pakistanis), you are demanding head of these players. They are only human. They succeed and fail sometimes. However I think easy money has made them less committed to the game.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    very right.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    He still better than many other players in the team. He should decide when to retire,
    and should not be forced.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ST is still performing better than other guys. Pl. give him a break.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Muslim League oppose Krishna’s statements on Israel

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Muslim-League-oppose-Krishnas-statements-on-Israel/articleshow/11474691.cms

    Excerpt

    In a press statement, IUML chief Prof Basir Ahmed Khan said that Krishna described Israel and India as natural allies and said that both the countries were facing international terrorism. This, he said, is travesty of justice because what Israel was facing is an struggle of Palestinians to free their own country from the illegal occupation of Israel. Such a situation cannot be equated with terrorism, he added.

    Khan has also expressed his displeasure at the timing of the Israel visit by foreign minister because today mosques are being burnt and Israeli forces are torturing the Palestinian youth. He also expressed concern over the foreign policy of UPA government, which he said was indifferent to the religious sensitivities of Indian Muslims. He also said that inviting Salman Rushdie to a function at Jaipur and playing host to Taslima Nasreen have also hurt the Muslims.

    @ He is entitled to his views, but is he really speaking for all the Indian Muslims or are these only his own views?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well, the circus starts…
    He is speakig for the Govt…. but IUML is a big partmer in Kerala for Cong…
    India has to do what is good for India –

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    do u agree,

    WHAT VIVEKANANDA SAID
    Vivekananda as he walked through Kerala called it a lunatic asylum. And it continues to be so even to this day.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    He is not speaking for the Government, otherwise S M Krishna would not have gone to Israel in the first place. Gopi, I am amazed that you are putting two and two together and making it …….

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    israhell is terrorist apatheid state.killing the innocents and involve in land grabbing demolition of places of worship of muslims and christians.but being satanic cousins brhmnst rulers will be the natural ally of zoinists.indians will taste the result of their
    friendship like pakistan.they were closest to american zoinists.now even europeans have abandoned them.

    krishna can go.but indians have to keep close watch.hardly anybody know that david headley was jew.when he was arrested police found jewish prayer books from his belongings.when he stayed in shadab house ,he wrote his religion as jew.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj Reply:

    Engrich;
    Are you really ignorant or or just pretend to be. This Muslim terrorist, son of a muslim diplomate from Pakistan, studied in pakistani Army School, assumed that name to befool security. Indulged in full terrorist activities and now enjoying its fruits.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    just write shadab house and check what he wrote during stay there.when he was caught he had jewish prayer book.
    there are thousands of jews hiding among muslims.i will send you an article from jewish papers where 8 jews were living in muslim community.married muslim women have childrens.when their mission finished,their wives were infomed of their real religion.were offered to settle anywhere in the world or convert and stay in israel with their husbands.they choosed to converts
    their sons had lot of mental trauma for long time.

    young turk were jws living among muslims as muslims.ran away to israel destroying turkey .reconvert them.doctor u are innocent
    parivar has closed ur mind.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I guess opium is available in pakistan freely.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I fully support Israeal in whatever it does against Palestinians. Let us not forget modern terrorism especially hijacking planes, taking hostage in building was started by terrrorist Yaser Arafat..

    India is late in supporting Israel but is doing the right thing. Israel is the only hope in Islam-infested mid-east.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj Reply:

    Manohar;
    Coming after few days. Neck deep in work, may be I will drown. Some people here opposing visit of Rushdie as this is hurting sentiments of Muslims??? Has any opponent read this book? Most unlikely. Book is a piece of Art/ literature. This opposition is hypocracy of tallest order as only few days back, this blog was defending M.F. Hussain, who portraide Hindu Gods in most despicable manner. naked/ coupulating etc?? That was artistic freedom and Rushdi/ Tasleema’s writing is sacrilage??

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    pankaj,rushdie should be allowed to come.dont forget india is democratic
    country with people of divulge opinion.book he wrote is bullshit,but politics gave importance to him.
    regarding mf hussain,this painting was painted by hindu classical paiters
    million time before.why mayhem only on mfhussain.

    waiting ur reply.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pankaj

    The extent to which freedom of expression/speech is to be used (misused) is left to the individual. If some statement/expression is distasteful/hurtful to others (one person’s meat is other person’s poison!) and the best course is to ignore the ‘offending’ piece (why give it unnecessary publicity).

    You get to see this right here on this blog, so many times the language used offends one’s sensibility – best course is to let it pass as it is more a reflection on the originator than the target.

    In a related news, the Government has sanctioned the prosecution of many websites for hosting “offensive” material. Now, now, where will all this lead to? It is humanly impossible to monitor (and delete) everything that is floating around the web and elsewhere.

    Both, those opposing Hussain and those opposing Salman/Tasleema, are wrong. Period.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    You will find that muslims from rural India are very moderate and assimilated in mainstream India whereas you find most of the trouble making muslims in urban India. The reason is that rural muslims have been not exposed to mid-east Jihadi Islam thanks to non-availability of exposure due to absence of Internet and other means of communication.

    Urban muslims have access to all the Jihadi material, they meet fundamentalists from muslim countries and imbibe nonsense from them. These are the people who are dangerous to India.

    I’d any day prefer a rural, semi-educated hard working muslim over urban, educated and fundamentalist muslim.

    Iqbal was a broad minded person before he went to west and intermingled with other muslims from different countries. When he came back, he was a changed man. He was no more old Iqbal but Iqbal who wanted homeland for muslims. The man who wrote Tarana-e-hind later wrote Tarana-e-milli…

    Educated muslims are greatest threat to Indian security because they either indulge in terror or recruit simple semi-educated muslims into terror.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Educated muslims can be greatest threat to Indian security because they either indulge in terror or recruit simple semi-educated muslims into terror

    bullshit a ny proof. actually educated hindus are caught in terrorist activities and serving jail term in various prisons of india.if u want list i can give u.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Not one hindu has been convicted of terror acts yet that you are hintingto ..don’t jump the gun..whereas there are thousands of muslims worldwide who were convicted of terror. Use brain…if you have one.

    These so called entrapment of hindus in terror case may be trick of modern muslim league Congress to get back muslim vote bank..we know how it uses different agencies including CBI and NIA.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    hindu terrorists were arrested with full proofs.aseemanand himself accepted all this.

    there are thousands of muslims worldwide

    they are freedom fighters from the countries which were trumpled by imperialists.nos are less than hundred.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Let court take decision based on proof. When same NIA/ATS arrests muslims with proof, you doubt proofs presented but when they do same against hindus, you consider proofs submitted by them as Quranic truth.

    Make up your mind first..Do you trust NIA/ATS or not? If yes, you need to trust them in both conditions.

  • Anonymous

    The way congress is playing communal politics in UP wooing muslims with doles, quota, fake-batla, I think our secular media and so-called secular people should rethink their position on SECULARISM practiced by Congress. If BJP is guilty of Hindutva (Majoritism) then Congress and other parties are guilty of minoritism.

    These two sets of people BJP and Congress+ are dividing India using their own brand of communalism. It is time to shun these idiots.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    supporting suppresed is not communalism.perpetuating communal riot to get high caste votes is communal card.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Democratic, inclusive, secular UPA govt. (Congress govt.) has approved prosecuting Facebook.
    I would like to know the views of all bloggers on this democratic step taken by great Congress party.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Kapil Sibal’s ego was hurt when Facebook and Google refuse to block so called
    indecent and extreme religious comments. How dare they refuse him ?
    This is his way of payback. Who cares for freedom of expression.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dear Friends,

    On the subject of Swami Vivekananda , he probably gave best explaination of Mohammed and Koran. As per him, Mohammed was a failed / Delusioned Yogi.
    He gave Example of Mohammed to warn how yogic experience can go utterly wrong.

    If you dabble in spirituality without doing basic prereration of Cleansing and thereby strengthening your mind and body,one is likely to encounter delusions and hallucinations. You can also get some elevated ideas. If one goes through story of Mohammed, he used to visit and spend considerable time in secluded caves . This is similar to a yogi undertaking meditation. However Indian Spiritual traditions lay stress on purification of mind , emotions and body before one can go seriously in deeper meditation. Tradition of Guru also helps in guiding disciples through these pitfalls. As explained in Patanjali’s Yogsutra, Ashtang Yoga starts with Yama and Niyama , which is nothing but disciplining and purification of Mind and body. Mohammed did not have benifit of such spritual traditions in 7th century Arabia. He stumbled into a higher spiritual state, but not being prepared for it, went into Hallucinations and delusions.This perfectly explainsFarishta Jabreel talking to him during one such visit to cave, how Mohammed was frightened. It also gave him some visions mixed with utterly superstitious and deranged ideas. This is how Quran is supposed to have been revealed. In his later Medina years, Mohammed seems to have more frequently started generating his Aayats as per his individual needs on that particular occasion . Like Aayat on adultary which came about after his child wife Aisha did not turn up for whole night and came back with another young person in morning or when he wanted to marry his own daughter -in-law and an Aayat was ready to help him in this deed.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Swami Vivekananda

    aaloke give me the reference.where u got this.this looks to be a part of anti-muslim propaganda coming from u.s.a.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    swami vivekanand was forced to eat his words by surender nath banerjee ,a brhmnst and mayor of calcutta,before giving him public reception.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    A Hindu does not mean what he says. And he says what he doesn’t mean. The Hindu leadership of this country has made India a beggar nation, a laughing stock of the whole world.

    Their favourite argument is “conversion brings social tension”. Social tension to whom? Brahmins may get sleepless nights and stomach ulcers. The Shankaracharyas may get high fever. But to us, the victims of Hinduism, conversion brings liberation

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This posting shows that suddenly this engirch learned english and his master posted it accidently !!

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Expand swami vivekanand was forced to eat his words by surender nath banerjee ,a brhmnst and mayor of calcutta,before giving him public reception

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke,
    Mohammad was not a spiritual man to start with. He was a politician, brilliant military commander and propagandist all rolled into one.

    He raised an empire that can be compared to third Reich of modern times.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    wrong.reich was zoinist empire finished.godly empire is increasing daily.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    give me source which confirms that above was written by swami vivekanand or accept that u are liar.like anyother brhmn.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    WHAT VIVEKANANDA SAID
    Vivekananda as he walked through Kerala called it a lunatic asylum. And it continues to be so even to this day.
    Earlier they saved their Hinduism by fooling the non-Hindu indigenous people through marxism and today the same forces in Kerala want to directly use Hinduism to save their rulership.
    Many people in India and outside may think that Kerala, on the west-coast southern tip of India, is a highly literate, clean and efficiently working state of Malayalees. All these may be true to a large extent but what is hidden from outsiders is that Kerala is ruled by a micro-minority of highly caste-conscious racist Brahmins and Nairs.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    gopi,

    The Hindu nazi terrorists(rss) are fully aware that once the muslim and Dalit Christians are granted constitutional reservations, the floodgates of conversion of Dalits to Christianity&islam will be wide open. This is the reason behind our Hindu Government’s opposition to Dalit/ Christian/muslim reservation.
    Hindu leaders do not invite us to their meetings because they don’t want to learn anything new or forget anything old. They have a closed mind. They think they know everything.

    Although these Brahminical forces are just a micro-minority, unfortunately they have become our leaders and rulers. This is the misfortune of India.

    Ever since Buddhism was defeated by this very Brahminical forces led by Adi Shankara, a dwarf Namboodiri from Kaladi, Kerala­ more than 2,500 years ago, we have been living under this Brahminical tyranny.

    Brahminism did not suffer any defeat, not even a minor dent, for centuries. When Christian missionaries came to India through the Kerala coast, they were shocked to see even young women naked above their waist. The missionaries inquired about the reasons for this nakedness. And they were told that it was the Hindu custom which prohibited the “low castes” from wearing clothes. What type of a religion it must be?

    pls confirm gopi ji

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Load of BS…

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Manmohan Says – Batla Genuine
    Chidu says – Batla Genuine

    Rahul says – Batla fake
    Diggi says – Batla fake
    Chamcha brigade says – May be fake

    Now the question is who is speaking Sonia’s mind. We can’t expect her to say anything because she is Empress of India not answerable to anyone including so called free media.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    truth should not be afraid of investigation.judicial enquery will expose the truth.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    There have been number of enquiries and Manmohan the most honest PM according to you guys has said encounter was genuine.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    can u name one.judicial enquiry will satis fy everybody.

  • engrich

    rajeev,

    to quote Swami Vivekananda, “Why amongst the poor of India so many are Mohammedans? It is nonsense to say that they were converted by the sword. It was to gain liberty from Zamindars and Priests…” (Collected Works-Vol 8-Page330). These conversions took place as dalits were not permitted to enter temples so they were visiting the shrines of Sufi saints and under the influence of the Humanistic aspect of Islam they took to Islam. There were other reasons like, anticipation of reward, interaction with Muslims, the least important factor being fear of Muslim kings. So he is partly right that most Muslims have local ancestry.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Casteism was one of the factor but biggest two factors were-
    1. Poverty – When Jaziya was imposed on poor people they chose to convert.
    2. Opportunism – Many people who wanted to remain in position of power converted to Islam.
    3. Violence – Those who opposed faced sword and terror of Islamists. They converted under duress.
    4. Cowardice – The people who had no stomach to fight betrayed their own people and converted to Islam.
    5. Casteism – Some converted revolting against caste system.

    The first 4 factor are responsible for 90% conversion. I am saying this based on the fact that lower castes still make up 70% of hindu population which is substantial.

    Now come up with new theory…

    Can you explain why there is casteism in Indian Islam? Has Islam failed Indian muslims? Is it not better for lower caste muslims to abandon Islam and come back to hindu fold? Islam has given them nothing except for bad name and separatist mindset.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Poverty – When Jaziya was imposed on poor people they chose to convert

    brhmns rajput and muslims were exempted.jaziya was imposed jaziya was imposed by last rulers to collect funds to provide security to poors when empire was crumbling.
    casteism in islam is evil.while in hinduism it is duty.3000 yrs old habits will take some time to go.it is on the way.but still exist.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    BS can not replace fact. I don’t know what kind of history you are taught in pakistan. Everything you write comes from pakistani history books.

    engrich Reply:

    indian history books were written by britishers to divide india.pakistan has no books.i read books written by suppressed class of indian society.

    engrich Reply:

    Violence – Those who opposed faced sword and terror of Islamists. They converted under duress.

    swami vivekanand says,

    the least important factor being fear of Muslim kings.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    dr shaan,

    Indian teacher at Oxford University held for death of renowned astrophysicist
    The writer has posted comments on this articleAshis RayAshis Ray, TNN | Jan 14, 2012, 01.29AM Professor Steve Rawlings, whose body was found at the home of his friend and maths lecturer Devinder Sivia, was a professor at St Peter’s College and an internationally renowned astrophysicist.LONDON: A 49-year-old Indian-origin maths lecturer at Oxford University’s top-ranked St John’s College was arrested in connection with the death of Steve Rawlings, an internationally renowned Oxford astrophysicist.

    Devinder Sivia, from whose Oxfordshire home Rawlings’ body was found, was released on bail on Friday but cops said the maths teacher, from a family that migrated from Moga in Punjab a generation ago, remained the only suspect.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is very fishy , Aparently post mortem is inconclusive , were they gay

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @RajivS, I am amazed so little you know about hinduism . MUSLIMS CANT CONVERT BACK TO HINDUISM. Nobody can convert to hinduism , ASHISH,S FOREBEARERS MADE THE DICK HEAD RULE , YOU ARE BORN INTO HINDUISM , YOU CANNOT CONVERT. Just like the stricture NEVER TO CROSS KALA PANI (Seven seas), the result are all there to see SLAVERY FOR 1000YRS, WAVE AFTER WAVE OF FOREIGN RULERS sweeping away any resistance LIKE THE AUSSIES ARE DOING NOW TO THE INDIAN TEAM

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan,
    I know the dickhead Brahmins did not allow muslims back to Hindu fold. The best example was son of Mastani (muslim mistress) of Bajirao Pehwa ruler of Maratha Empire. Bajirao tried very hard to get his son converted to Hinduism but orthodox Brahmins overlruled the Peshwa and finally Peshwa’s son remained muslim thruout his life.

    The reconversion back to hinduism is recent phenomenon when Arya Samaj started this practice. They were able to get many muslims back to hindu fold in western UP but as usual peace loving muslim a Pathan murdered 80 year old Swami Shradhanand in broad daylight stabbing him. This murderer pathan was hailed a Ghazi by muslim community in India (sounds like pakistan’s Qadri who murdered Salman taseer). With this murder conversion back to hinduism ceased and only started after 1990 when BJP/RSS started occupying political space in India.

    I hope you now understand history of reconversion back to hinduism better.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shan

    1) “Muslims can’t convert back to Hinduism”.

    Who is to stop anyone from doing so?

    Here is a scenario. A (a Muslim or a Christian or a Sikh or anybody) decides to become a Hindu (even changes his name, etc. and gets it recorded in the census data). Which authority will sit in judgment on his conversion and decide whether it is illegal/immoral/whatever and against the tenets (whatever they may be) of Hinduism or otherwise? Our Constitution or any law is silent on this (and rightly so), as it is none of anyone’s goddam business what the other does with his/her religious beliefs.

    The only religion I know of where one cannot convert to is Zoroastrianism. One is considered a Parsi if and only if at least the father of the person is a Parsi himself. A person born to a Parsi woman and a non-Parsi man is also not considered a Parsi. The Fire Temples are no-go areas for non-Parsis, who are also deprived of religious rituals outside (sad and tragic). PS: This should debunk the innuendo that has been floating around (by we all know who) for ages that Feroze Gandhi was a Muslim and was made to convert to Zoroastrianism (and adopt the surname Gandhi) for long/short term gains for a particular family.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dear Rajeev,

    It is a myth that Lower castes in India converted to Islam in a big way. There was no concern shown by invading and ruling Muslim ruling class towards lower castes. There is hardly any mention of lower castes by various muslim writers from Chachnama in 7th or 8th century to Al Beruni around 11th century to writers in 16th – 17 th century. Had Islam been so concerned about Indian lower caste, would’nt they have written volumes on this subject, but they have hardly mentioned about lower caste, and if ever it has been mentioned, it is only in passing reference. It has been surveyed also in western UP area where Islamic influence was one of the highest and remained for the longest period, percentage of Castes coming under Scheduled Castes are extremely low in Muslim population. Lot of data is now available which totally debunks this myth.

    Shan,

    If no one could convert to Hinduism, how come there is so much population of Hindus. Before advent of Islam, almost every one was part of Indic civilization which came to be called as Hinduism after advent of Islam in India. Buddhism, Jainism are only offshoots of the basic Indic or Dharmic traditions.Concept of sect based on religion was not very strong in India before Islam came here. Concepts of people not allowed to travel outside Bharat evolved mostly after Islamic Invasions started. We have references of Indian travelling to various parts of Asia and starting kingdoms, empires in those parts. Present day Indonesia, Cambodia, Malaysia are areas with lot of historical details on Hindu kingdoms. It was so in many other parts also. In a very curious way, Indian society was trying to preserve its traditions. Looking at that , we get two views 1)Caste relations with lower castes that crystallised during this time were not humane, they were cruel. 2) However Indians could to an extent preserve their ancestral knowledge and culture.

    Another myth is that India lost to Islamic army because of Caste system . If that was so, what was the reason of Egyptians, Berbers, Mesopotamians, Persians loosing to Islamic armies. They did not have this kind of caste system . Why did a huge area crumble befor Chegiz khan’s mongol forces including great military empire of Muslims of that time. India actually did not loose as badly as other empires of that time. They were totally vanquished. The answer for these losses lies in great strength of ruthless and brain washed negative forces. Well this is an entirely big topic which we can discuss someother time.

    ENGRICH,

    As you would be aware, I don’t read your posts. I scroll down your post. however some small posts get read by eyes before brain says don’t read. I also do not respond to you as it is utterly useless. What ever small posts that I saw yours, I have answers for all of them, but it is totally useless to respond to you, So I will not respond. I have always suggested others also to refrain from responding to you.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke

    Applause for your post.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke,
    The seculars (so-called) have used propaganda of casteism to justify muslim terror (rule) in India. The time has come to confronts the facts of history rather than act like ostrich. We can not hold current muslims responsible for acts of their ancestors but we need to tell the truth so that such brutality is never repeated. Same is true for good and bad part of hindu history.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rajeev awnser me with open heart and mind if trillions of dollars hidden in temples should be brought back to our economy and use in builting our infrastructure.or not.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke,

    Very good and informative post. I enjoyed reading your earlier post
    on Swami Vivekanand too. Thanks.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    As you would be aware, I don’t read your posts. I scroll down your post

    you brhmns dont want learn anything new or forget past.ur mind is sealed.u make ur own history ur own past and future.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    It is a myth that Lower castes in India converted to Islam in a big way

    INDIA WAS RULED BY MUSLIMS /BRITISHERS ,BUT INDIANS WERE RULED BY U.muslims wanted to become good managers of country.u were ruling indians
    that is why indians remained so poor.trillions of dollars of wealth in hidden in temples while indians are are goining to arab countries to make money.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    If no one could convert to Hinduism, how come there is so much population of Hindus

    for indians caste is more important than religion.brhmns are not hindus and hindus
    are not brhmns.muslim rulers never showed any interest in conversion.they wanted to make india no.1 country of the world.which they did.but u high caste hindus established british rule which sucked our resources and wealth

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Why did a huge area crumble befor Chegiz khan’s mongol forces including great military empire of Muslims of that time

    but they could not form an alternate viable goverments.they only killed millions of innocents and destroyed BIGGEST LIBRARY of the world with millions of books on science technology and religion.could not write one books.gradually they were defeated all their top general killed and his grand son converted to islam.now 90%
    of mongols outside mongolia are muslims.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    I have answers for all of them, but it is totally useless to respond to you, So I will not respond. I have always suggested others also to refrain from responding to you.

    escape is best option as u are fed with wrong informations and lies.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Buddhism, Jainism&sikhism challanged brhmnsm as they came to serve humanity,not to enslave.they were brutly crushed and physically annihilated by u people.then came islam.met almost the same fate.

    god save india and indians.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Engrich

    Yes, it is true that Swami Vivekananda, after a visit to Travancore in 1892, did say that “this is a mad house”. he observed this based on the numerous castes and subcastes,untouchability, distance requirements( a degradation across the caste spectrum – that an ezhava should walk xx feet behind a menon, a pulaya *** ft behind an ezhava etc) etc not only within Hindus, but across Syrian Christians and Muslims also. Unlike Bengal, or other parts of India, Travancore did not have a “four caste” system, but a system of multiple castes, with the power held by two/three non-brahmin subcastes and upper crust christians and Muslims.

    He went to Kanyakumari from Travancore, meditated on the present day “vivekananda rock” facing India, and then took off for his world famous trip to Chicago and the West.

    Many social reformers took Vivekananda’s teachings to heart; started caste practice eradication movements, the most prominent being Sri Narayana Guru;s (one caste, one religion, one God movement). The Trvancore royal family was quite cooperative with these movements; the first temple proclamamtion entry in india was declared by the King of Travancore in early 1930s. This opened up all the temples for all the people irrespective of caste.

    All the social movements coupled with communist initiatives helped to bring down caste issues; for most part it is non existent now, unless for reservations.

    Regarding your question about kerala women in olden days leaving their breast uncovered – I do not think there was any “caste” dimension to that. People in Kerala always dressed simple in those days, men in white dothies and shirts; women in white dothies and blouse, . Some women may cover their blouse with a shawl; a sari was used only on special occasions..

    My mother, while at home wore only a dhoti and a blouse; she would wear a shawl over the blouse when she went out of home.

    Part of the reason why people dressed in white (and not colours) may have to do with the greenery and beauty of the environment. Women (and men) wear colourful outfits in Rajasthan, may be partly to offset the barren land and harsh weather… Just a theory…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    Who are you trying to educate? A person who justifies Arabic racism. These muslims consider Syeds as supreme and then lecture us about casteism.

    My pakistani friends has told me about the caste system in Pakistan. Most of the high caste muslims treat lower castes muslims like dirt.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    u are right muslims have castes but socially they are even not uneven

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    muslims treat lower castes muslims like dirt.

    u are right ,this is effect of injections of cocktail of manu dharam shastra & kautilya arthshastragiven to us from last 3000 years.wanning slowly.intercaste marriages are encouraged promoted and accepted.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi,dont provide reasoning which do not match history history.mopala war started when nair landlord forcibly opened blouse of recent convert muslim woman.she was thrashed for wearing blouse and not showing her breasts.this nair landlord was murdered by muslims.since then this evil practice was abolished.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    nairs used to force lower community women to show their breasts.dont deviate the issue.

    vivekanand called kerala,a lunatic asylum,ems called kerala,land of vedas,brhmns called this parushram shruti.brhmns brought bhagwan parushram to annihilate ll the khatris of world.kerala was the last and most succesful place of their mascare.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Aaloke,
    I find it very strange when muslims doubt evidences submitted by NIA/ATS against muslims. However when same NIA/ATS arrest hindu on terror charges, the same muslims treat evidences presented as Quranic truth.
    They can’t have it both ways. I am 1000% sure that recent arrest of hindu extremist in terror cases was an attempt by pro-minority UPA govt. to placate muslim community when they were under suspicion because of acts of IM terrorists.

    Till date we have not seen even one Hindu convicted of terrorism but Muslims and their masters congress keep drumming so called hindu terror. Let court make that decision.

    As far as muslims are concerned, thousands have been convicted of terror and most of them have accepted Quran as inspiration.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rajeev make decision on available facts not what u think.everything is available on labtop of dayanand pandey ,fake shankaracharya of that gang.

    INDIA MEIN KOI ELECTION HARTA NAHI HAI,YA JEETTA HAI YA BEIMAANI HO GAYEE.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    In the movie Gandhi My Father, Akshaye Khanna has acted in role of
    Gandhiji’s eldest son. IN that movie it was shown that he converted to Islam
    and again reconvered to Hinduism.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra, UK

    राष्ट्रीय बहन -मायावती
    राष्ट्रीय भाई .. दावूद इब्राहिम
    राष्ट्रीय समस्या …मनीष तिवारी
    राष्ट्रीय चिंता …सलमान की शादी
    राष्ट्रीय गिरगिट … अजित सिंह
    … राष्ट्रीय रथ यात्री …लालकृष्ण आडवाणी
    राष्ट्रीय चुगलखोर …स्वामी अग्निवेश
    राष्ट्रीय असंतुष्ट ..मेधा पाटकर
    राष्ट्रीय अतिथि(अस्थाई)..हिना रब्बानी
    राष्ट्रीय अतिथि (स्थाई)- अजमल कसाब
    राष्ट्रीय गणितज्ञ …कपिल सिब्बल
    राष्ट्रीय किसान – अमिताभ बच्चन
    राष्ट्रीय मसखरा … लालू यादव
    राष्ट्रीय इंतज़ार …सचिन का सौंवा शतक
    राष्ट्रीय गाल …शरद पवार
    राष्ट्रीय तिरछी आँख- बाबा रामदेव
    राष्ट्रीय बुडबक – राखी सावंत
    राष्ट्रीय लाजवंती – सन्नी लीओ

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    rashipita………balwinder jee

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Bahut khoob, bahut hi mazedar.

    Dr. Mishra, please consider the following:

    National maun-vrati: Sonia Gandhi
    rashtriya bak-bak: Digvinash Singh
    National shame: Indian cricket team
    National pride: Indian judiciary
    National loser: Air India
    National insolvent:Vijay Mallya

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Malika Sheravat is very busy actress. In one of the interview she said that

    ” mera ek paon Churchgate mein hota hai to ek Andheri mein ”

    Yeh sunkar pappu bola

    ” phir to jo Mahim, Dadar, Bandra, Khar, aur Santacruz mein rahte hain,

    ( these places are between Churchgate and Andheri)

    unke to maze hi maze hain.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Kyonki Mallika ka dimag hamesha andhere mein rehta hai.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Been busy with the auto expo and before that a Univ trip to Shimla — Kufri– not to be confused with Kufr ! :)

    Seems that the blog was pretty hot in the past two weeks. Well the topic is down to Islam, UP polls and .conversions and what not. Keep it up guys. Let me add a few cents of my knowledge to the bonfire…

    a) COnversions: I love the idea of people leaving religion in case they find it binding, disgusting and sterile. All the world should have laws which allow migrations without intimidations. Sadly my own religion has strict laws on discarding so called Islamic practices, in case someone finds them dumb and violent. Why should I be bound down by the ideas of outdated Mullahas who believe that the Sun revolves around the earth and women are your slaves and a non Muslim is kafir?

    Hindus could well do to check out why they are not able to discard the caste system totally, despite making some strides. Chances are a Gadkari will still marry his daughter to a gadkari and a LaluYadav will still hunt for a Yadav match for his son— as our matirmonial columns show.

    Christians should ponder over why churches are now getting repeatedly scandalised by gay scandals and lack of attraction of Chirstianity for youngsters.

    People like me who have been very religious once becasue of family setups and now can see the humbug and hatred which abounds in mosques need to educate people to give up fixed ideas in religious books which limit the mental horizon. One prime example of which being this Engirc who keeps speaking like a robot trained in Osama Bin Laden’s private school..

    b) Reservation: As a Musallman, born into this religion, I should be happy. But frankly I am not too enamoured by the idea. One part of me says that take this benefit, chuck the Management and advertising ambitions and become an IAS officer now. But probably I won’t as bribes dont interest me. I am an Anna fan. If reservations on religious lines are going to divide this society on religous lines, it is a bad step.

    INSTEAD ALL POLITICAL PARTIES AND BUREAUCRATS SHOULD HAVE MADE LAWS WHERE MIND OPENING, SCIENTIFIC EDUCATION WAS MADE COMPULSORY AND PARENTS FINeD AND REPRIMANDED IN CASE THEY DID NOT EDUCATE THEIR CHILDREN.

    This country can waste so much money on statues of present CM’s. It could have had schools instead– quality schools for all.

    c) UP polls. It seems either it is going to be Mayawati or Mulayam. Nothing will change in this state. Mayawati is the godess of corruption but does not patronise criminals. Mulayam is less corrupt but godfather of many criminals….

    Now back to my college preparations for now.. !

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez,

    I am impressed by the basic honesty with which you have written this post.

    I agree that Hindus do need to do a lot of soul searching, that too on an urgent basis about the evil called caste system.

    In 1981, Meenakshipuram in TN became known the world over for the mass conversions of dalit Hindus to Islam, with huge investment of Arab money into the project of conversions. Though in the ensuing years the converts did make social progress here and there, by and large they remained out-castes.

    Later, VHP did get many of these Muslims converted back to Hinduism. This is a reply to Shan, who has claimed earlier that it is simply not possible.

    Christianity is suffering from spiritual anaemia. There are deserters from this faith to Islam and even to Hare Krishna movement.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thank u shenoy sir

    I hope my writing made some sense to you. ALl this business of conversion and my religion is better wil oneday ultimately destroy this planet.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez,

    One should not let religion dictate his/her life .

    engrich Reply:

    One should not let religion dictate his/her life

    all religions came for this purpose.india is secular country from public life it should be away.

    engrich Reply:

    sheyv why not to talk for betternent and upliftment of those who are with u.
    conversion and reconversion is a process.millions of muslimsconverted to christianity in pakistan,because they help them to become better human being.nobody weer.
    u people weep as you loose the slave.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    इमां मुझे रोके है तो खिंचे है मुझे कुफ्र
    काबा मेरे पीछे है तो गलिस्सा मेरे आगे

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Good one Dr Mishra !

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    CONVERSIONS AND RECONVERSIONS
    Guys anybody can convert to any religion and then reconvert in MODERN INDIA , THOUGH YOU MUST BE PRETTY BRAVE TO CONVERT FROM ISLAM BACK TO HINDUISM. but we are talking about 500yrs ago.
    Has anybody heard about CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU , the followers worldover are seen in ISKON(International society for Krishna Consciousness) temples.There influence in far flung siberia had become so acute , that some nut in siberia asked to ban gita.Now Mahaprabhu’s life revolved around taking the pandits intellectually , and defending the SC/ST , embracing them .
    I personally do not beleive in any concept of god or subscribe to any religion
    BUT THIS MAN PROFOUNDLY INFLUENCED ME.
    He said YOU DONT NEED MANDIR ,YOU DONT NEED HOLY BOOKS , ALL YOU NEED IS TO GIVE YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEING LOVEAND KINDNESS
    Try to download this film , which i did from a ISKON website , it has english subtitles
    It is called NEELACALEY MAHAPRABHU, neeachal is puri of orissa in bengali.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g14i-Z4spfQ
    @RajeevS, In pakistani punjab HINDU CASTE SYSTEM IS ALIVE AND KICKING WELL , because they had just converted to islam.
    There is no caste system in resst of muslim world , THERE IS CLASS BARRIER

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Baba Ramdev attacked at press meet.
    Black ink thrown at Baba for refusing to answer question on Batla House fake encounter.

    Congress party is suspected to be behind Baba Ramdev’s ink. Kamran Sadiq who has thrown ink on Baba Ramdev, has an NGO “AFTAB”, which was inaugureted by Salman Khurshid , Diggi & govt paid 20 lakhs donation.

    Meanwhile, friends, please enjoy this cartoon:

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ramdev is bussines man turn politician.things like this happens with politicians.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Nice cartoon. But, will people learn ?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    mohan india will remain till we dont change habiits fatwa on urya namaskar is right.this brhncl tacis to deflect the attention from real issues.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    According to Digvijay this attack on Ramdev Baba is also RSS ki saazish.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy
    Our government did not allow RamDev to speak at Ramlila maidan.. Guess what- E Aboobacker, the SIMI/NDF/SDPI guy was allowed to speak there in November; and he stated “we can see Delhi, we will raise our flag there”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    This is how secularism is defined in our country.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Assembly elections 2012: Vote against Wahabis, BJP, appeal Sufis

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Assembly-elections-2012-Vote-against-Wahabis-BJP-appeal-Sufis/articleshow/11483115.cms

    Excerpt

    The All India Ulama and Mashaikh Board (AIUMB), a leading body of Sunni sufis, on Friday asked people to vote against Wahabi and BJP candidates in Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand polls. If their plan succeeds, the sufis could play a spoiler for several Muslim candidates in UP.

    “Irrespective of parties, people should vote only those candidates who are secular, have a clean image and will work for development, including education and employment,” said AIUMB general secretary Maulana Syed Mohammad Ashraf Kichhouchhwi.
    ———

    “Except Saharanpur, Muzaffarnagar and Meerut, Sunni sufis are in a majority in the rest of UP. We are chalking out a strategy to oppose Wahabi candidates. Depending how things play out, we can field independent candidates to spoil chances of the Wahabis,” he said.

    ———-

    This must be blasphemy for the Hindutva brigade – pairing the BJP with the Wahabis!!!!!!

    ================

    Mayawati’s former OSD joins SP

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mayawatis-former-OSD-joins-SP/articleshow/11488870.cms

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Reality is re-asserting itself

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    Such type of ideologies need enemies to thrive and if there are none, then one is created.

    Much to the chagrin of the Hindutvawadis, l firmly believe as many others too, L K Advani’s infamous rath yatra in the early 90s accompanied by riots, resulting in the demolition of the Babri Masjid, was one such exercise and India has never been the same again.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Agreed

    Anonymous Reply:

    There are other exercises too after that to reinforce the existence of the enemy.

    PS: Some of the bloggers here too are thriving with their daily dose of bashing ………

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is high time for whoever wins UP electioins to shoulder the responsibility for UP. I for one, am tired of UP dragging down all the progress other Indian states have achieved. You keep UP out, numbers look good; U bring UP in, everything is haywire. Be it the status of Muslims, illiteracy, public health, life expectancy, infant mortality, honour killings, or any other sh— –

    I am also for not diverting ny other states’ tax to UP welfare after xx years.

    Let them swim or sink; it is high time.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    congress (a team of brhmns)destroyed which used to be no.1 state of india at the time of partition.

    now we have great hope with mayawati.under her up progressed more than gujrat.bjp is enemy of everybody including hindus.

    rahul stands no chance.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    destroyedUP which

    Anonymous Reply:

    BJP has been utterly inept in organization, candidate selection, outreach.. To make matters worse, they did the last minute caste calculation by bringing in the tainted BSP ministers. They deserve to be the last!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    We have discussed the state of affairs in the BJP for the past several months. There seems to be no improvement.

    The big question. Will there be a BJP spring? If so, when?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    IF THESE BRHMNSTS ARE CHECKED,they will convert northern india as lunatic asylum as well like kerala.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ARE not CHECKED

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi, Mohan, Ravi and others.

    Mayawati’s statues have been covered by huge plywood boards in the run-up to the elections.

    Will the covers remain, if she does not return to power, as SP and others have said they would not sanction any funds (from the state coffers) for their upkeep? Will she spend her own money to maintain them?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shekhar Gupta

    Pak Spring?

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pak-spring/899578/0

    Excerpt

    Exactly a decade ago, speaking at the inauguration of the Daily Times, a liberal new publication edited by Najam and Jugnu Sethi, pillars of Pakistani media, I got myself into some trouble, which is not unusual given my chronic foot-in-the-mouth disease. This was early 2002. We were in a war-like situation following the attack on Parliament. Pervez Musharraf was fully in control, Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were in exile, and all democracy in suspension.

    I said to a hall filled with Lahore’s liberal elite at the Pearl Continental, that one reason we were always struggling in our bilateral relations was that we were still governed by poorly evolved systems. So Pakistan, I said, was as imperfect a dictatorship as India was an imperfect democracy. Explanation: the Pakistanis had not quite denied their citizens all the freedoms that genuine dictatorships like North Korea, China, Iraq and Libya (then) did, or they would not have me, an Indian, saying rude things about their rulers to a full hall in Lahore. Similarly, I said, we in India had not yet quite succeeded in giving our people all the freedoms and rights that a classical, liberal democracy ought to. This, by the way, was also the year of the Gujarat riots. Both countries, I added, needed to move in opposite directions, we to make our democracy more perfect, and Pakistan, to make its dictatorship even more imperfect. Then, we might reach a middle ground where we, our establishments and peoples, find it easier to level with each other.

    The Pakistanis responded to this rather warmly; the trouble I got into was entirely on our side: how dare you compare us with Pakistan, draw equivalence of any kind? The art of assassination on the Internet was still a little young, but it was a nasty new tryst with the virtual mob. A decade later, how does that theory stand the test of time?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Manohar

    Isn’t that the issue?

    Due to common beginnings, both Pakistan and India continue to believe that they are still in the same race.

    My view is that soon after the partition the two started to divert, yet each still defines it-self with reference to the other.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    now india is 20 years ahead of pakistan in field of knowledge due to their corrupt rulers.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi

    ‘both Pakistan and India continue to believe that they are still in the same race’.

    As far as India is concerned, it used to be so, no longer.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shekar Gupta talking about democracy is like Dracula drinking water– Give me a break!

    Who will want to take over Pakistan in its present situation? Army may be different things; but not stupid. It is wild imagination for SG to compare Gilani;s yacking to the democratic revolutions/springs happening across Arab world or otehr parts. LAst time I checked no Paksitani boy or girl marched in the street to protect democracy or against the army.

    Gilani can yack and pretend to be in power; but who is the real power? Who goes to Washington DC to discuss foreign affairs? Does army have to take over?? That is news to me

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    There is no chance of Pak spring . Where children are taught hate in the school and democracy is considered non islamic, we can never expect
    any serious protests in favor of democracy there.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan & Gopi

    Even I see no immediate chance of any Pak spring. Even Shekhar Gupta has put a question mark on the title of his column.

    The temporary silver lining was that the civilian government showed the courage to sack the defence secretary – a post I believe is held by a person from the armed forces.

    In this ongoing tussle, the Chief Justice of Pakistan showed his partisanship – he said that he would side with army in its “battle” against the civilian government. Strange to say the least. Where art thou neutrality?

    Some months ago on this blog, I had suggested that Pakistan needs a Mahatma Gandhi or a Nelson Mandela.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Cry my beloved country!
    Usha Devi, a pregnant Kolkotta slum resident, was denied admission to three govt hospitals in Kolkotta (each hospital referring her to another hospita) She delivered twins on the roadside; but died during delivery.

    This happened two days ago n Marxist Kolkotta, Mamta’s Kolkotta!

    As usual and customary, all the three hospitals stated they have not done anything wrong, theyw ere following procedures.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Sad and tragic.

    The question is what will Mamata do now?

    In the earlier incident of fire in a hospital, she locked up the trustees and others. Who will she take action against – her own health minister?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    elections should be vehicle of change only names have changed.like in up leadership should come from lowest strata of society.if we want reforms.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ WILL DUMB GUDDA RAHUL & DIGVINASH ~~ succeed in dividing india ? ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    When I was 17 and dreamt of becoming a pace bowler, my coach called me aside and said that at 5′9′” I could at best become a Madan Lal and not Kapil Dev. Passionate but not fast. This SACH KA SAAMNA saved a lot of years which would have got waste.

    In contrast, Dumb Gudda Rahul and sly Digvinash are pushing the Indian Muslims away from Sach ka Saamna and placing them at loggerheads with rest of India. Almost the way Congress conspired with Bhindranwale and Akalis too joined the fray inn Punjab in 80’s.

    Then the Nirankaris had held a function in Amritsar, resultin in protests and firins resultin in killings of 6 Sikhs. This would have been at best ignored, but Bhindranwale backed by Zail SIngh saw this as an opportunity to decimate the Akalis and resorted to lies that Sikhs are in danger. And succeeded in creating a fasle grievience.

    Today when some Muslims representing a very small minority view among Muslims were involved in terror and these terrorists killed at Batla house, Arundhati Roy, Amar Singh and like minded Dumb gudda Rahul and Digivansh are trying to create the same false grievience. Instead of telling the Muslims to discard the scum and move on, these short sighted idiots are using the terrorist killings as an opportunity to spread lies. That the dead terrorists were actually heroes and the brave policeman, a rightwinger Hindtuva guy, especially since he was a Sharma…. !!

    Wah Wah Wah !! Kya trolls hai… yeh dumb gudda aur Digviansh.

    My fear is that they will in the end push all sorts of lies which idiots like Engrich would swallow– that RSS was 26/11 ki saazish, That 9/11 was casued by jews, Hindus and RSS…

    In the end — a smiling cobra like Gen Zia will come fishing….

    And then…..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ WILL DUMB GUDDA RAHUL & DIGVINASH ~~ succeed in dividing india ? ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    When I was 17 and dreamt of becoming a pace bowler, my coach called me aside and said that at 5′9′” I could at best become a Madan Lal and not Kapil Dev. Passionate but not fast. This SACH KA SAAMNA saved a lot of years which would have got waste.

    In contrast, Dumb Gudda Rahul and sly Digvinash are pushing the Indian Muslims away from Sach ka Saamna and placing them at loggerheads with rest of India. Almost the way Congress conspired with Bhindranwale and Akalis too joined the fray inn Punjab in 80’s.

    Then the Nirankaris had held a function in Amritsar, resultin in protests and firins resultin in killings of 6 Sikhs. This would have been at best ignored, but Bhindranwale backed by Zail SIngh saw this as an opportunity to decimate the Akalis and resorted to lies that Sikhs are in danger. And succeeded in creating a fasle grievience.

    Today when some Muslims representing a very small minority view among Muslims were involved in terror and these terrorists killed at Batla house, Arundhati Roy, Amar Singh and like minded Dumb gudda Rahul and Digivansh are trying to create the same false grievience. Instead of telling the Muslims to discard the scum and move on, these short sighted idiots are using the terrorist killings as an opportunity to spread lies. That the dead terrorists were actually heroes and the brave policeman, a rightwinger Hindtuva guy, especially since he was a Sharma…. !!

    Wah Wah Wah !! Kya trolls hai… yeh dumb gudda aur Digviansh.

    My fear is that they will in the end push all sorts of lies which idiots like Engrich would swallow– that RSS was 26/11 ki saazish, That 9/11 was casued by jews, Hindus and RSS…

    In the end — a smiling cobra like Gen Zia will come fishing….

    And then…..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ WILL DUMB GUDDA RAHUL & DIGVINASH ~~ succeed in dividing india ? ~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    When I was 17 and dreamt of becoming a pace bowler, my coach called me aside and said that at 5′9′” I could at best become a Madan Lal and not Kapil Dev. Passionate but not fast. This SACH KA SAAMNA saved a lot of years which would have got waste.

    In contrast, Dumb Gudda Rahul and sly Digvinash are pushing the Indian Muslims away from Sach ka Saamna and placing them at loggerheads with rest of India. Almost the way Congress conspired with Bhindranwale and Akalis too joined the fray inn Punjab in 80’s.

    Then the Nirankaris had held a function in Amritsar, resultin in protests and firins resultin in killings of 6 Sikhs. This would have been at best ignored, but Bhindranwale backed by Zail SIngh saw this as an opportunity to decimate the Akalis and resorted to lies that Sikhs are in danger. And succeeded in creating a fasle grievience.

    Today when some Muslims representing a very small minority view among Muslims were involved in terror and these terrorists killed at Batla house, Arundhati Roy, Amar Singh and like minded Dumb gudda Rahul and Digivansh are trying to create the same false grievience. Instead of telling the Muslims to discard the scum and move on, these short sighted idiots are using the terrorist killings as an opportunity to spread lies. That the dead terrorists were actually heroes and the brave policeman, a rightwinger Hindtuva guy, especially since he was a Sharma…. !!

    Wah Wah Wah !! Kya trolls hai… yeh dumb gudda aur Digviansh.

    My fear is that they will in the end push all sorts of lies which idiots like Engrich would swallow– that RSS was 26/11 ki saazish, That 9/11 was casued by jews, Hindus and RSS…

    In the end — a smiling cobra like Gen Zia will come fishing….

    And then…..

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    these terrorists killed at Batla house,

    can u submit any proof that those killed in batala house were terrorists.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    RSS was 26/11 ki saazish,

    who killed terrorists.why no enquiry commisson.awnserwho raped and mutiliated 166 people in hotel.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Did you get this story from Digvinash SIngh?

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    brave policeman, a rightwinger Hindtuva guy, especially since he was a Sharma…. !!

    5000 crores were found in the accounts of another hero,daya nayek from maharashtra.whose official salary was 5000/.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    viju

    Let us give one more name to Digvinash – Digrryodhan (rhymes with Duryodhan)

    So Digryodhan has come up with statements refuting his own party, his own ministrycabinet,, his own party’s home minister…

    Is this banana republic or what?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    hey guys, WASSUPPPPPP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rizwan wishes all old friends n enemies a very happy new year 2012. Been away too long but recognise ome of the old street gang.
    Gopi and Shoeb Sir, I see you are still pounding away at the keys- cry the beloved country- I like that Gopi sir. A woman dying at the roadside delivering a baby makes the blood boil.
    Vijay, regarding reservation- you are both right and wrong. Right, that if blindly implemented it will polarise society. BUT WRONG BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT HAVE SEEN THE POVERTY OF SOME OF THE MUSLIMS IN INDIA- women dying in childbirth- so waht’s new ??????????????????????
    Vijay, we employ many daily wage labourers in our factory in Bhiwadi and it makes their blood boil to see Yadavs and Paswans pick up reservations while their Dads drive around in cars!!!!!!!!!!!
    can you tell me what I should say to my muslim worker who lives in a hut

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rizwan,

    Welcome back. I hope you are still in touch with that beautiful girl from Lahore.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Rizwan

    Welcome back. I say that with a smile on my face, because in your absence people here accused me of Hounding you out of here.

    Is that true?? Did I hound you out of this blog??

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Hi rizwan

    So glad to see u back! How is your “Lahore ki kali” doing? Do u still keep in touch with her?

    As I have said many times, I am so proud of the current youngsters. You, Viju, Aaloke, Pervez, Shoeb, Vinoo — all are gems ; I feel good about the future of the country.

    To the new generation of India – Yo uhave to straightren the mess our generation has created..I am sure you will, I am very optimistic. ,

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rizwan

    Soory my reply has been posted later on . Can you see the latest postings to respond to it?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dear Rajeev,

    You had responded to one of my earlier posts that Mohammed was not a spiritual person. I agree with you. However he appears to have stumbled into higher levels of consciousness as he was dabbling in some rudimentary form of meditation. This comes out from his constant visits to secluded caves. But not being ready for the higher experience, he hallucinated. His so called encounter with Farishta Jabreel, how he became afraid and many other pointers are all indicators of Halucinations. Hallucinations which a person can experience when he meditates improperly and without preliminary strengthening of character. Indian yogic lores are filled with such kind of encounters. There are instructions on how to avoid such situations.

    Initial Aayats during his Mecca days that he used to come up with were in fits of delusion. Whatever is in the Aayats is all understandable and can be expected from a Arab business man of 7th Century AD who used to travel to Jerusalam, Syria. A person who was in constant touch with Christians and Jews of Arabia. A person who used to discuss a lot with Christians and Jews on maters of religion.. A person who appears to have developed an inferiority complex vis.a.vis Jews and Christians as they claimed their revealed Books while Pagan Arabs had none. I am reminded of movie “ Lage Raho Munna Bhai “ in which Sanjay Dutt studies very very extensively about Mahatma Gandhi as he has to impress Vidya Balan ( This is akin to rudimentary meditation done wrongly as he is highly stressed ). In the process he starts seeing Gandhi in person and he starts conversing with him( Delusions). Now whatever is asked by anyone about Gandhi from Sanjay Dutt, It appears to Sanjay dutt as if Gandhi is answering. However when one shrewed Professor asks him questions which in actual Sanjay Dutt did not know, Gandhi stops answering. So what Sanjay Dutt thinks Gandhi is telling him is actually what Sanjay Dutt knew himself ( consciously or sub-consciously). Something similar seems to have happened to Mohammed. What he ascribed to Allah ( Original Moon god of Arab Pagans ), was actually what he had already gathered ( Consciously and sub-consciously) during his conversations with Jews and Christians of Arabia. He himself became convinced that it is Allah who is talking to him through Jabreel. To overcome his deep rooted inferiority complex about not having revealed book, here comes Quran . Complete Quran is mish-mash of Jewish and Christian scriptures and sayings. Added to that is original Arab Pagan traditions of fasting during Ramzan, visiting Kabba in unstiched white clothes and many other.

    However it appears slowly he became more in control of his delusions. During his Medina days ,he now seems to be faking his fits. Now his Aayats are pouring as per his situation at that time. Like Aayat on adultery,or on marrying his own daughter-in-law, or warnings to hypocrates after one of his battles in which his many supporters excused themselves,and many many more.

    Islamic military victories and spread of Islam is another interesting topic which can be discussed some other time.

    If Mohammed had been born in India, there would never have been any Islam as he would have been cured of his delusions at the very inception. There has been a very strong and vibrant spiritual tradition in India since last many milleniums.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Wow.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke,
    Very well put. It is fact that Mohammad suffered from delusions due to epilepsy.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    a

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    aaloke hiduism is the father of fascism apartheism and nzism.u people are polluting our rivers pond and lakes.destroying our ecology.ur temples are hurting our economy by removing wealth from circulation and making it dead.india needs many ghaznis to bring this wealth back in circulation.u brhns are hurting india the u captured it.

    There has been a very strong and vibrant spiritual tradition in India since last many milleniums.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    ur so called vibrant traditions is nothing but fraud through which u make money and make indians poorer.u brhmns are curse for india.

    engrich Reply:

    aaloke u bs has hardly any taker.islam prevailed because message is better
    convincing and more helpful to common man.even now islam is fastest growing religion in the world.
    brhmns and zoinism ,the two satanic forces are renposible for all the evils of world.millions and millions of indians are leavins vedic fold and joining other religions like budhdhism sikhkhism christianity and islam.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    aaloke ur blog hich was also full of stupidity u that swami vivekanand has said this.i asked source and u ran away.

    for the first in history of india common indian was treated equally in court ownership of the land was transferred to indians and light of education was given to every indian free of charge.

    u hate spewing brhmns are fraud and liars.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Cry my beloved country!

    Superpower? 230 million Indians go hungry daily

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Superpower-230-million-Indians-go-hungry-daily/articleshow/11494502.cms

    Excerpt

    With 21% of its population undernourished, nearly 44% of under-5 children underweight and 7% of them dying before they reach five years, India is firmly established among the world’s most hunger-ridden countries. The situation is better than only Congo, Chad, Ethiopia or Burundi, but it is worse than Sudan, North Korea, Pakistan or Nepal.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    And this is because BJP ruled India for 50 plus years.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    And Sardar Patel wore a khaki chaddi indise his khadi dhoti.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is a state fault more than the central govt fault– i bet the usual suspects – UP, Bihar, MP, Rajastan, West Bengal – will share the majority of these problems — let them shoulder the responsibility, not the govt of India..

  • Anonymous

    Meddling with nationhood
    Swapan Dasgupta

    Brilliant write-up.

    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/right-and-wrong/entry/meddling-with-nationhood

    Excerpts

    Intervening in the debate on August 28, 1947, the then home minister Sardar Patel had some harsh words for the proponents of minority reservation: “I once more appeal to you to forget the past…You have got what you wanted. You have got a separate state and, remember, you are the people who were responsible for it, and not those who remain in Pakistan…What is it that you want now? In the majority Hindu provinces you, the minorities, you led the agitation…Now again you tell me and ask me to say for the purpose of securing the affection of the younger brother I must agree to the same thing again, to divide the country again in the divided part. For God’s sake understand that we have also got some sense…”

    ————-

    The extension of job reservation to Muslims threatens to add a new dimension to differentiated citizenship. From separate personal laws and full cultural and educational autonomy, minority rights are sought to be extended to other arenas including the handling of sectarian conflict. The road is being readied for political reservations at a future date.

    There may be strong electoral compulsions governing the move to institutionalise a separate Muslim identity. But before jumping headlong into legislation, the political class must enter into wider public consultations. The issue is not who is ’secular’ and who is ‘communal’. The stakes are higher: the very character of the Constitution and the meaning of nationhood.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Reservation on religion or caste basis is a curse. Sooner it is removed it
    will be better for the country. Economic reason should be only the
    criteria for reservations. In one sentence Rizwan has cited the long
    term effects of caste based reservation.

    “” we employ many daily wage labourers in our factory in Bhiwadi and it makes their blood boil to see Yadavs and Paswans pick up reservations while their Dads drive around in cars!!!!!!!!!!!
    can you tell me what I should say to my muslim worker who lives in a hut”"

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi & Mohan

    We have been in agreement on this – economic criteria should be the sole consideration for reservations. No debate and no issue on this count.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    giving separate reserrvation for muslims will be the death knell for the country.. all should fight against it violently and non violently…

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Theological opportunism
    Meghnad Desai

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/theological-opportunism/899729/0

    Excerpt

    Mind you, carrying an Indian passport does not really help if you are a Muslim in bad odour with one or another of India’s political pillars. Maqbool Fida Husain was afforded no protection of his rights as an Indian citizen even by a secular UPA because a few Bajrang Dal people created fuss. Boldly, the UPA retreated and the poor man died in exile. If you are a Muslim in India, you need good conduct certificate from every side of the fanatical fraternity.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Meghnad Desai had also said about Gandhiji that he condoned violence
    and the reason of his saying this was that Gandhiji believed in Bhagwat Gita.
    The problem with such people is that they give example of few stray incidents and paint whole country with the same brush.

    Do you believe in his this statement ?

    “” If you are a Muslim in India, you need good conduct certificate from every side of the fanatical fraternity “”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    My advice to those people is “grow up”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    “” If you are a Muslim in India, you need good conduct certificate from every side of the fanatical fraternity “”

    It was so a decade back or so, now it is less pronounced. The ‘certificate seekers’ have probably realised that it does not pay in the long run, in fact it has harmed them more than the targets.

    The last such salvo was Dr. Subramaniam Swamy in his “infamous” article that led to his summer courses at Harvard being cancelled. Do this or do that, otherwise …………

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I do not agree with what Dr. Swamy had written. However,
    I think that cancelling his course at Harward was a silly
    decision. They buckled under the pressure from the Islamic
    societies all around the world. So much for freedom of
    speech.

    Please go through this interesting article on this subject.

    http://folks.co.in/blog/2011/12/26/swamy-and-his-harvard-enemies-the-real-story-part-1/

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    What Dr. Swamy wrote was reprehensible. Period.

    What Harvard did was not right either. Period.

    I have yet to reconcile the two taken together. Any help?

    —————-

    i did read the article by Dr. Rajaram It is one point of view. Almost all of the article is his harangue against others, who he does not agree with or dislikes(?)

    I do not agree with his contention when he says that “(Dr. Swamy’s) article was unquestionably provocative, but what it provoked was debate”. Debate on as to how a certain sections of the society have to submit proof of being good citizens and good Indians by …. or else. Sorry, just not done.

    Is he not the same person from Mysore who along with Prof. Jha in 1999 had claimed to decipher the Indus script, a claim which turned out to be false?

    engrich Reply:

    what he wrote will be called rascism in civilized societies.

    engrich Reply:

    during hindu rule it always happens that is why india had no positive contribution to the people of india or world those days.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    manohr-

    what is the issue you are talking about — a passport does not make a citizen.. are u or the author saying that husain was mistreated.. husain was not exiled.. he decided to renounce his citizenship.. heshould have fought rather than renouncing.. also, if he thought he can claim innocence after drawing indian godesses in compromising positions while drawing ” a muslim girl”, his daughter, mother teresa etc well clad women he ovbviously was living in ome other planet

    What undid him was not Indian intolerance..what undid him was his total disregard for the feelings of 1 bullion people

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    When I post a link with excerpts, the primary reason is that it will initiate a debate among ourselves (minus the label makers). I do not necessarily agree with that the author has to say.

    In case I have to blame anyone for Hussain’s predicament is first the intolerant bigots that abound in this country (the same lot do not with Salman Rushdie or Taslima – double standards, surely) and a bigger blame on the Government of India of the day (read UPA) for capitulating in front of these bigots and looking the other way.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar-
    Husains predicament is his own making..He just does not have an artisitic license to offend 1 billion people.. Especilly when he considered his own faith “sannctum sanctorum” ..drawimg nude godesses copulatig with animals is little on the edge…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    We seem not to agree on freedom of expression and artistic licence.

    I billion? Phew! Almost all the Indians did not know Hussain existed and even a larger number were never aware of the “offending” paintings in question, many of which were more than 30 years old.

    It was the intolerant bigots from the Hindutva fold made an issue out of it – to put anyone who was Muslim in a corner. Why these zealots took 30 years to make a noise about it?

    The best way to deal with anything offends you is to ignore it.

    We agree to disagree.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    this congressi troll revels in espousing fuddy-duddy logic and expects-rather demands-that others agree with it. Look how he is apportioning blame to “intolerant bigots”, who according to him, forced or persuaded the very secular Husain to draw their goddesses naked and copulating with animals!

    There is no word of even disapproval of what you correctly said, “disregard for the feelings of 1billion people”.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    People who ruminate about Islam and its political growth must read this book by Dr.Peter Hammond:

    Slavery, Terrorism and Islam The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat PART I Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult; in it’s fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

    Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

    Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious rights. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious rights, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here’s how it works.

    As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in: United States– Muslim 0.6% Australia– Muslim 1.5% Canada– Muslim 1.9% China– Muslim 1.8% Italy– Muslim 1.5% Norway–Muslims- 1.8%

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in: Denmark — Muslim 2% Germany– Muslim 3.7% United Kingdom– Muslim 2.7% Spain– Muslim 4% Thailand– Muslim 4.6%.

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in: France– Muslim 8% Philippines- – Muslim 5% Sweden– Muslim 5% Switzerland- – Muslim 4.3% The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5% Trinidad &Tobago; — Muslim 5.8% At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

    When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in: Guyana– Muslim 10% India– Muslim 13.4% Israel– Muslim 16% Kenya– Muslim 10% Russia– Muslim 15%.

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues such as in: Ethiopia– Muslim 32.8%.

    At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in: Bosnia– Muslim 40% Chad– Muslim 53.1% Lebanon– Muslim 59.7% Real Islam PART IISlavery, Terrorism and Islam The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat PART II

    From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: Albania– Muslim 70% Malaysia– Muslim 60.4% Qatar– Muslim 77.5% Sudan– Muslim 70% After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: Bangladesh– Muslim 83% Egypt– Muslim 90% Gaza– Muslim 98.7% Indonesia– Muslim 86.1% Iran– Muslim 98% Iraq– Muslim 97% Jordan– Muslim 92% Morocco– Muslim 98.7% Pakistan– Muslim 97% Palestine– Muslim 99% Syria– Muslim 90% Tajikistan– Muslim 90% Turkey– Muslim 99.8% United Arab Emirates– Muslim 96% 100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ –the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in: Afghanistan- – Muslim 100% Saudi Arabia– Muslim 100% Somalia– Muslim 100% Yemen– Muslim 100%.

    Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’ It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today’s 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world’s population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddists, and Jews, and all other believers.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    I had read this long time ago. In Pakistan it is getting worse where
    religious extremism is concerned, where as here in Dubai it is getting
    more and more tolerant towards other religions. New year parties, Diwali,
    Onam, Sankrati – Kite flying -, Christmas and many other religion functions
    are celebrated with gaiety. Just at the outskirts of Dubai a new Gurdawara
    has come up with some help from the government, which is going to open its
    door for the public on 19th of this month. The people who have seen this,
    claim that this is one of the best gurdawara in the world.

    Change is happening, somewhere it is positive and somewhere it is
    getting even more worse.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Change is happening, somewhere it is positive and somewhere it is
    getting even more worse

    it is not muslim,it is hindus who are most irrational brutal hate filled people of the world(brhmnst)they speak lie to win the point.
    it is not only dubai saudia is better and condition is same from istamboul to jakarta.brhmnst and zoinists live on lies and hate.

    that is why everybody want to leave india while pray to extend their stay in muslim countries.

    u should think why ashok vikrmaditya and ambedkar preffered to die as budhhdist insteadof hindus.

    hate spewing cannot change the facts.lie has no legs.

    [Reply]

  • engrich

    Confessions of a Hindu
    Shame, shame, shame!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ”Hinduism is the biggest bane for India. We have inherited it and we have to live with it.

    To understand why we should stop being Hindus the way it is defined today, please read on. Unless the basic tenets of the religion is revised, it is not right to be Hindus. That is why even great thinkers like Ambedkar changed religion and became a Buddhist and asked all his followers to embrace Buddhism. He was right because he knew he cannot correct the mistakes in Hinduism. Here are the main reasons why it is not the right one.

    1. Hinduism espouses Slavery
    According to Hinduism (read Geeta and Mahabharatha and various other Hindu documents), the sudras are made to serve the other three castes (Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaisyas). While defining the jobs of the castes, the document considered the Bible of the Hinduism states that Brahmins are the people who ‘possess’ everything. God has made everything for the Brahmin. He has to learn the vedas and practice it. Kshatriyas should keep the Brahmins happy and rule the kingdom in line with the vedas. Vaisyas will do the trading. And the rest of the people (read sudras) should serve these three communities. There is no other purpose of their existence. What do you call this? It is slavery in the guise of religion. If the so called Hindu exponents are really interested in harmony, they should remove these lines which occur in more than one place all over geeta and mahabharatha. These were obviously inserts made during the later days of caste movement. Using this nearly 80% of the people were held slaves to the rest and the same is being tried today.

    The worst is that this slavery is not accepted by the people who are on the top. At least in the case of the Negros of the US, the whites accepted there is slavery. But here this was not accepted. And this is the cause of the major problems. The classes who enslave others work against the liberation of such enslaved masses even today. What disheartening scene is this?

    To add one more, women are considered slaves of the men! It is high time these thoughts are removed as well.

    2. Hinduism has always implemented caste system and made comebacks.
    Most of the religions of India were born mostly against the caste system. For instance, the Jainism and the Buddhism. But over a period of time, the caste system was reincarnated and these relligions were thrown out of Indian populace. On most occasions, this was achieved by pushing forward ‘fear’ of God and that these are ‘God’s own words’. No body could question it. That was how you are made. You are made this way because you are ‘destined’ to be that. You have sinned in your previous births. Therefore, you are born a sudra. What sin you committed nobody knows. It is fate that hangs over your heads. While next birth and not sinning in the current birth might be a motivator to live life properly, this was misused by the later day purohits to promote their own concept of Hinduism. You are today what you are because of your previous birth’s sins. Therefore, you will have to struggle and suffer. Hinduism made a slow and steady come back by preaching a solution to the sufferings of today and killing numerous Jains and Buddhists. Every one in the top 20% gained but for the poor sudras who made up the remaining 80%.

    3. Hinduism was never accepted by any other group of people
    I want to stress the fact that from India, Buddhism and Jainism went all over the world. Do you think Hinduism did not go anywhere else? Whereas Buddhism and Jainism were accepted, Hinduism was not accepted. VAriations of Buddhism was created and are state religions in more countries than you will find Hinduism in. The primary reason is this. Hinduism cheats and enslaves majority of the people. It is high time we stopped the progress of this religion.

    4. Hinduism kills
    As in the case of Muslims, Hinduism also has a clause that allows you to kill people who are not in line with the vedic thought. More than one lakh Jains were slaughtered by the Hindus during the middle ages to further their cause. Jainism was very powerful in those days when the preachings of Mahaveeera took the country by storm. More people converted to it and slowly the Hindu population was getting reduced. So how do you stop it? The Hindu priests would call the Jains for a discussion or argument. If they lose the argument then they will be lanced. A number of such locations where thousands of such jains were lanced and left to the vultures are still marked and noted. I have visited some of them in Tamil Nadu recently. Lakhs are a huge number in those days when the country’s population ran into less than a crore. Where as Jains never killed the Hindus, the Hindus always did. According to the tradition and the teachings of Geeta, a Brahmin can use a sword to kill an opponent when he is threatened or the vedas are threatened. What more permission do you want to kill the other people?

    There is a strong come back of Hindu principles again in the Indian society today. There are a number of places where the Hindu doctrines are being reinforced and said in a way that these are the right way to live. I have found articles in this forum itself which espouses caste system as the best way to live in a society. How can a divided and majority enslaved society be the right society? How can a society that does not allow equal rights to every one be the right one? Don’t you think that Hinduism and its false preachers are given a fitting reply and made to rehash their documents to match what is required today?

    Or we should all change over to Buddhism like what Ambedkar did after the government failed in controlling the Hindu fanaticism.”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Engrich

    The link and who wrote this?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A must read. Not for those who yawn at anything more than 5 lines and who find long articles boring.

    1) India must implement food security law despite flaws: Amartya Sen

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/interviews/india-must-implement-food-security-law-despite-flaws-amartya-sen/articleshow/11429124.cms

    2) ‘I don’t think there’s enough clarity on economics here’

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/I-dont-think-theres-enough-clarity-on-economics-here/articleshow/11431373.cms
    ————–

    A more exhaustive chat was published in the Crest Edition (print) of the The Times of India. Once the complete chat is available on the net, I will post it.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    I do not agree with Mr. Sen. The idea of food security bill is noble but
    they have not factored in human nature. Government cannot keep on
    giving its people free money and free food. Any body getting free money and
    free food will not take any effort to work for his livelihood. Proper education and jobs opportunities should be created. As it has been happening since
    independence, our government want these people to remain illiterate and poor.
    Such people can be exploited easily.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    One need not agree with Prof. Sen or whoever.

    One small correction though – the food will be made available at subsidised rates for certain amount of quantity and not for free.

    IMO, this bill in a way is giving legitimacy of the practice of political parties (during elections) promising free electricity, free TVs, rice at Rs2 per kilo, free mixies, free bicycles, free saris, subsidise petrol and diesel, the list too long to put it down here.

    That brings us to a more general question of subsidies. How much and for whom?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dear Manohar,

    A system where equal opportunities are provided is ideal. This is best accomplished when similar quality of good basic school education is provided to everyone. Anyone going beyond that to depend on his own resources. This is what American schooling system provides. Hand outs should be avoided as much as possible. Hand-outs creates an environment against healthy work culture.

    However till we are able to develop ideal system, some specific relief can be given, but it should be clearly time bound. Perpetual free feeding is recipe for society downfall.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Aaloke

    We have to actually take care of the delivery systems which ensure that the subisidies reach the people they are intended for. Perhaps, direct cash transfers are one of the ways to do so.
    Subsidies in all other sectors have to go – for example petrol, diesel, etc.

    What use of good basic school education to a hungry child.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Aaloke

    I totally agree with you on this one

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    RIZWAN, oye hoye you made my day. Bhaut khush keeta, kitho chala gaya si? Puttar u arrived with big bang, immediately there is life in blog. As Gopi said youngsters like Vijay, parvez and you are future of India.
    How is life puttar, did you keep up with that Lahori girl. But take care, cultrally you may find differences and if one you fight with her she may take yr kids back to Pak and that is last time u will see them. Sorry I call spade a spade.
    I congratulate u puttar for posting vaary uncomfortable truth in our face, WHY POOR MUSLIM LIVING IN HUT NO GET RESERVATION WHILE CAR RIDING YADAV DOES ? Nail has been hit on head and blog is silent

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Balwinder

    Blog is silent becasue Vijay Kumar after a 3 set game of tennis on a nice chilled Sunday morning has chosen to go for a cricket match with the colony kids…

    But will soon post a reply to rizwan … In a nut shell I would want the Muslims to qualify under the OBC quita and not given a special bloc as Salman Khurshid and politicos want.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    WHY POOR MUSLIM LIVING

    it will open the floodgate of conversion.

    brhmnsm ka aur ghareebi ka choli daama n ka sath hai

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Manohar-
    Bangla Desh metrics shows that a poor country can do reasonably well in social metrics. Behanji should learn a lesson here.
    As I mentioned several times in this and related blogs, we should stop looking at these as a India problem, rather as a specific state problem. I believe when it is looked at as an india problem and a nationwide plan is developed, the real focus needed for problem areas is diluted. Focus on Bihar/UP/West bengal for specific Muslim upliftment programs rather than as an all India program. Similarly on poverty – Infant mortality etc etc

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi read this if u can read hindi,

    ग्लोबल टेस्ट में नीचे से दूसरे नंबर पर रहे भारतीय छात्र15 Jan 2012, 1418 hrs IST,टाइम्स न्यूज नेटवर्क
    आर्टिकलकॉमेंट्स (20)Post a commentEmail this articleयह पेज ईमेल से भेजें
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    स्कूल स्टूडेंट्सहेमाली छपिया
    मुंबई।। दुनिया भर में आईटी सेक्टर के भारतीय छात्र भले ही बेहतरीन प्रदर्शन करते रहे हों, लेकिन कई दूसरे स्तर पर भारत अब भी शिक्षा के मामले में काफी पिछड़ा है और इंटरनैशनल लेवल पर खुद को साबित करने के लिए इसके एजुकेशन सिस्टम में बेहतरी की काफी गुंजाइश है। एक इंटरनैशनल स्टडी में भारतीय छात्रों का प्रदर्शन पूरी तरह फ्लॉप रहा है।

    अंतरराष्ट्रीय स्तर की स्टडी में 15 साल की उम्र के भारतीय स्टूडेंट्स को दुनिया भर के इसी ऐज ग्रुप के स्टूडेंट्स के साथ रीडिंग, मैथ्स और साइंस संबंधी क्षमताओं से जुड़े असैसमेंट प्रोग्राम में बिठाया गया तो वह बुरी तरह पिछड़ गए। केवल किर्गीस्तान को हराते हुए भारतीय छात्र सेकंड लास्ट (नीचे से सेकंड) पॉजिशन पर आए।

    ऑर्गनाइजेशन फॉर इकॉनमिक को-ऑपरेशन ऐंड डिवेलपमेंट ( OECD ) द्वारा हर साल आयोजित किए जाने वाले प्रोग्राम फॉर इंटरनैशनल स्टूडेंट असैसमेंट (PISA) में 73 देशों से आए स्टूडेंट्स ने भाग लिया। यह असैसमेंट बच्चों एजुकेशन सिस्टम के मूल्यांकन के लिए किया जाता है। तकरीबन 5 लाख स्टूडेंट्स ने इसमें पार्टिसिपेट किया और यह सर्वे ढाई घंटे चला।

    PISA में चीन के शंघाई प्रांत से भी स्टूडेंट्स ने पहली बार ही भाग लिया था लेकिन इस सर्वे में वे रीडिंग फील्ड में टॉप पर रहे। मैथमेटिक्स और साइंस में भी उन्होंने ही टॉप किया।

    विश्लेषण में बताया गया, ‘शंघाई के एक चौथाई से भी ज्यादा स्टूडेंट्स ने मुश्किल समस्याओं को सुलझाने में अडवांस्ड मैथमेटिकल थिंकिंग स्किल्स का प्रयोग किया, OECD के सिर्फ 3 परसेंट की तुलना में।’ ग्लोबल टॉपर से भारतीय छात्र 200 अंकों से पिछड़े।

    सरकार ने इस प्रोग्राम में शामिल होने के लिए तमिलनाडु और हिमाचल प्रदेश से विद्यार्थियों का चयन किया था ताकि वे शिक्षा और विकास की चमकदार तस्वीर पेश करके आएं लेकिन नतीजे कुछ और ही सामने आए।

    इन 2 राज्यों की परफॉर्मेंस से जो नतीजे सामने आए, वह उदास करने वाले है। गणित में भारत ने मात्र किर्गीस्तान को हराया और दूसरे व तीसरे नंबर पर रहे। इंग्लिश टेक्स्ट पढ़ने में भी तमिलनाडु और हिमाचल के छात्र केवल किर्गीस्तान से बेहतर थे। उसमें भी इन राज्यों की लड़कियां लड़कों से काफी बेहतर थीं। सांइस के टेस्ट में हिमाचल के स्टूडेंट्स सबसे फिसड्डी साबित हुए और तमिलनाडु ने हल्का बेहतर प्रदर्शन किया और नीचे से तीसरे नबंर पर रहा। जाहिर है कि सरकार को अपने एजुकेशनल सिस्टम पर गौर करने की जरूरत है।

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    gopi read this if u can read hindi,

    ग्लोबल टेस्ट में नीचे से दूसरे नंबर पर रहे भारतीय छात्र15 Jan 2012, 1418 hrs IST,टाइम्स न्यूज नेटवर्क
    आर्टिकलकॉमेंट्स (20)Post a commentEmail this articleयह पेज ईमेल से भेजें
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    स्कूल स्टूडेंट्सहेमाली छपिया
    मुंबई।। दुनिया भर में आईटी सेक्टर के भारतीय छात्र भले ही बेहतरीन प्रदर्शन करते रहे हों, लेकिन कई दूसरे स्तर पर भारत अब भी शिक्षा के मामले में काफी पिछड़ा है और इंटरनैशनल लेवल पर खुद को साबित करने के लिए इसके एजुकेशन सिस्टम में बेहतरी की काफी गुंजाइश है। एक इंटरनैशनल स्टडी में भारतीय छात्रों का प्रदर्शन पूरी तरह फ्लॉप रहा है।

    अंतरराष्ट्रीय स्तर की स्टडी में 15 साल की उम्र के भारतीय स्टूडेंट्स को दुनिया भर के इसी ऐज ग्रुप के स्टूडेंट्स के साथ रीडिंग, मैथ्स और साइंस संबंधी क्षमताओं से जुड़े असैसमेंट प्रोग्राम में बिठाया गया तो वह बुरी तरह पिछड़ गए। केवल किर्गीस्तान को हराते हुए भारतीय छात्र सेकंड लास्ट (नीचे से सेकंड) पॉजिशन पर आए।

    ऑर्गनाइजेशन फॉर इकॉनमिक को-ऑपरेशन ऐंड डिवेलपमेंट ( OECD ) द्वारा हर साल आयोजित किए जाने वाले प्रोग्राम फॉर इंटरनैशनल स्टूडेंट असैसमेंट (PISA) में 73 देशों से आए स्टूडेंट्स ने भाग लिया। यह असैसमेंट बच्चों एजुकेशन सिस्टम के मूल्यांकन के लिए किया जाता है। तकरीबन 5 लाख स्टूडेंट्स ने इसमें पार्टिसिपेट किया और यह सर्वे ढाई घंटे चला।

    PISA में चीन के शंघाई प्रांत से भी स्टूडेंट्स ने पहली बार ही भाग लिया था लेकिन इस सर्वे में वे रीडिंग फील्ड में टॉप पर रहे। मैथमेटिक्स और साइंस में भी उन्होंने ही टॉप किया।

    विश्लेषण में बताया गया, ‘शंघाई के एक चौथाई से भी ज्यादा स्टूडेंट्स ने मुश्किल समस्याओं को सुलझाने में अडवांस्ड मैथमेटिकल थिंकिंग स्किल्स का प्रयोग किया, OECD के सिर्फ 3 परसेंट की तुलना में।’ ग्लोबल टॉपर से भारतीय छात्र 200 अंकों से पिछड़े।

    सरकार ने इस प्रोग्राम में शामिल होने के लिए तमिलनाडु और हिमाचल प्रदेश से विद्यार्थियों का चयन किया था ताकि वे शिक्षा और विकास की चमकदार तस्वीर पेश करके आएं लेकिन नतीजे कुछ और ही सामने आए।

    इन 2 राज्यों की परफॉर्मेंस से जो नतीजे सामने आए, वह उदास करने वाले है। गणित में भारत ने मात्र किर्गीस्तान को हराया और दूसरे व तीसरे नंबर पर रहे। इंग्लिश टेक्स्ट पढ़ने में भी तमिलनाडु और हिमाचल के छात्र केवल किर्गीस्तान से बेहतर थे। उसमें भी इन राज्यों की लड़कियां लड़कों से काफी बेहतर थीं। सांइस के टेस्ट में हिमाचल के स्टूडेंट्स सबसे फिसड्डी साबित हुए और तमिलनाडु ने हल्का बेहतर प्रदर्शन किया और नीचे से तीसरे नबंर पर रहा। जाहिर है कि सरकार को अपने एजुकेशनल सिस्टम पर गौर करने की जरूरत है।

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think you have gone in the cut and paste mould to destroy debate here., People would want you banned again. Imagine this freedom does not exist in Saudia which you love.

    Please limit you replies to a link and not paste everything.,

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    it is just to increase ur knowledge.if i write u will not believe.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    Agree.

    That is why we have a federal structure with most of the legislative powers with the state governments. However one has to keep in mind that one cannot have certain types of benefits (e.g. reservations on whatever basis) applicable to only certain states.

    IMO, (see my response to Aaloke), do away with reservations and subsidies, instead have system of cash transfers to the deserving (based economic criteria). I believe Andhra Pradesh has a very efficient and successful system in place.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    i fully agree mohan

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    Manohar-
    Bangla Desh metrics shows that a poor country can do reasonably well in social metrics. Behanji should learn a lesson here

    bangladesh is developing very fast.already ahead ofindia in many field.will be the most properous area of the subcontinent soon.indian primary education is destroyed by brhms.as they hate students being non brhmn.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ HOW MUSLIMS CAN IMPROVE WITHOUT RELIGIOUS QUOTAS ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————-

    @ Rizwan,

    Nice to have u on the blog again! Hope u do have reasons to celeberate the new year,

    Let me start the posting with a true story. Some days back I was seated in an office of the UP government trying to collect certification for a building, along with my business partner and three employees. The talk turned to the UP politics and the officer made a guess on which way the five of us would vote. Though I vote in Delhi, I let the officer put forward his guess… which turned out to be pretty accurate.

    His predictions.One employee a Bhadana, an OBC– would vote for the SP; my partner a succesfull Punjabi like me would vote for the BJP , Iqbal my right hand would vote for the Congress because fo the reservation policy and another a so called Dalit would vote the BSP.

    Before he could say anything about me, I said I vote on issues and hate the idea of dynastic succession, which Rahul represents and the anti national spiel on terror which Digvinash gives.

    “Well… as I said, you will vote the BJP unless you have some personal connect with the BSP or Mulayam to get a project underhand…” The officer said with superior smile.

    I Did not object as we were there to get our work done nd not hurt any feelings.

    BUT……………..

    The fact is that all these politicains have managed to perfectly divide society on case and communal lines to make their vote banks,

    Sad, is’nt it?

    That is what I fear this religious reservation policy would do further on. I too hate the idea of Yadavs and Paswans taking reservation benefits when they have climbed the social ladder. But that calls for revising the policy and not making it more divisive….

    Look forward to your reply before I give further inputs on how Muslims can actually progress…. and do it fast….

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    when voting is on communal lines why not reservation.but obc quota should not be reduced.saying that muslims should be given from obc quota is a politics.increase quota for muslims.which should be strictly for the muslims living below poverty line.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Any reseravtion which happens will be for all minorites. Becasue of fanatics like you who want to purdah the women and put the children in madrasas, even that will be cornered by Christians, Buddhists and Sikhs who are less superstitious and welcome the new world.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    budhhdists and sjkhs are already covered by resrvation.christians are helped by international missionary organization.purda is better than prostitution.madarssas should be moderized by goverment.they are far better than goverment schools.goverment should fund them and contrl them.private schools in india is very expensive,out of reach of common man.

  • Anonymous

    When Yahya Khan gave inkling of his intention to attack India

    http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/When-Yahya-Khan-gave-inkling-of-his-intention-to-attack-India/899911/

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Srimathi Indira priyadarshini Nehru Gandhi was the last “man” we had in our leadership…I will not give her the time of the day for her econ policies, her overt politicization and corruption of bureaucracy etc.. However, she was decisive when she had to; and eventually paid off with her own life.
    She was people’s Priyadarshini.. She could have done so much more..

    I have second thoughts abt her emergency.. As I get older, I have serious reservations on democracy here.. May be she should have just taken over, make trains run on time, make bureaucracy responsive etc before we entered into the free fall

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Hey, hey Gopi.

    You may have disappointed some bloggers here by stating ‘Srimathi Indira priyadarshini Nehru Gandhi was the last “man” we had in our leadership’, because that excludes the ’second Iron Man of India’, who happens to be one of your favourite punching bags. ;-)

    ——–

    Now to some serious business.
    I have disagreed with you before with you on the question of democracy -vs- dictatorship (benevolent a la the ruler of Travancore).

    If she had taken over, then Sanjay Gandhi would have been the de-facto ‘Saddam Hussain’ of India. I leave it you to ….

    Anyway, the public thought otherwise and defeated her precisely on the grounds of imposition of the Emergency.

    Perhaps, people prefer democracy and an empty stomach to dictatorship and a full stomach.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay Kumar, Mohan, Gopi,

    Here is a ‘twister’:

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Nice one.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Good one.. I am going to use it this evening for a gt together!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    In the UP elections, the congress party seems to have fallen between two stools:
    ……..by SWAPAN DASGUPTA

    http://dailypioneer.com/columnists/item/50871-for-congress-its-muslim-only-poll.html

    Some excerpts:

    “It is impossible to not feel sorry for Union Minister Salman Khurshid for being told by the Congress high command that he spoke out of turn by announcing a proposed nine per cent reserved quota in Government jobs and education for ‘minorities’ — the secular legalese for Muslims.”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Some more excerpts from this article:

    “” Second, it is more likely that the Congress deliberately fielded Khurshid to float a trial balloon and observe the reactions to the proposal which was under active consideration by the group that regards UP as a make-or-break election. Khurshid’s pre-arranged leak was premised on the principle of deniability by the official Congress.”"

    This was the thinking of Congress behind this strategy.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    That is politics and nothing wrong if seen purely from a political angle. Similarly, Mayawati floated a trial balloon of dividing the state into 4 smaller states.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Yes, I know this is how politics is played in our country.
    But, when BJP plays ” communal” card, the response
    from some of the bloggers is completely different.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Could you quote an example of a card played by the BJP, which was dubbed as ‘communal’.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy–
    My reading is that Congress will do better this time. As is customary, BJP loses another great opportunity!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    that is because you have been made to read that.

    I have got no such hunch, because the figures simply do not match.

    If you say Mulayam would do well, I may say, “possible” and If you root for Maya, I would even say “good luck to her”.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji/Shenoy,

    Difficult to predict Indian voter. Are they fed up with Mayawati ?
    Hard to say. She has already started playing here Dalit card
    by criticizing Election Commission for covering her statues
    and elephants. She is a seasoned politician and knows very
    well what the people of her state want to hear.

  • Anonymous

    Is it possible to remove an employee from the government if he had got his
    job from reservation quota ? Other than committing a fraud can he be removed
    for the reasons such as: coming late on duty regularly, sometimes not reporting for
    the job without informing his superiors, neglecting his duty during office hours, insubordination etc.

    Will someone please reply me ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan
    Whether thru reservation or not; it takes an act of God to remove a central (or for that matter state) govt employee..

    I hope and pray that both state and central Govts freeze the govt employment
    at the current level. It simply is bloated, more bloated than the European Govts that have problems.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi, there are two simple ways by which the staff strength can be pruned.

    1.Form Lokpal ans Lokayuktas all over India, staffing them full with the most honest of the existing staff.

    2. Then set them upon the corrupt, slack, indisciplined etc and allow the law to take its course, only a bit faster.

    PROBLEM SOLVED!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji,

    About eight years back, I had gone to SBI in Gandhidham ( Kutch )
    to renew my fixed deposit. I was sitting with the person who was
    handling this job, when this gentleman wearing clean white safari
    and a tika on his forehead, came and threw few fixed deposits receipts
    at the table and in a loud voice ordered that these fd’s should be renewed immediately. For another 10-15 minutes I witnessed the
    tamasha of this guy who shouted at few more employees for no
    particular reason and than walked out of the premises.
    The person who was handling my fd’s told me that he is a peon
    from lower caste and this happens almost everyday. He is present in
    the office for not more than one hour every day and does absolutely
    nothing, other than this tamasha. If anyone dares to oppose this guy,
    immediately their union will send hundreds of people to demand
    an apology otherwise no work will be allowed.

    Long term effects of appeasing policies.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    to be honest, it is impossible to remove from service any employee, particularly a government one. The bosses can “reform” a delinquent staff by disciplining him. Even petty frauds and misdemeanors cannot be good enough grounds for dismissal, particularly of staff selected under quota.

    Usually , the boss joins the erring employee/s by doing all those things himself.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    First of all thanks to Mohan, Vijay, Ravi, Balwinder uncle and Gopi Sir and all other for your welcome. Our factory had gone in for an expansion and I had a busy year behind me. I see some names are missing.
    Only Manohar said I think that poor muslims also need reservation. Vijay your reply was all anecdote and no substance, you have to commit yourself. I am once again reminding you that muslim pockets in UP and Bihar will have such depressing poverty you Delhiwallahs cannot even imagine.
    Or should I say WE Delhiwallahs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my bad
    Vijay, commit, reply, Rizzy baby does not allow fence sitting
    Parvez where you from man, what do you do? I am from DPS RKP, then a stint in DU then Abba jaan’s good old factory in Bhiwadi
    ENGRICH- your pen is depressingly familiar- IS IT RAMAVTAR IN A NEW WINE BOTTLE , hahaaha

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rizwan,

    Did you say Bhiwadi or Bhiwandi near Bombay ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan from DPS to Bhiwandi would have been a very long jump! Our factory is based in Bhiwadi which is on the Haryana Rajasthan border. In the last 15 years, about 2000 industreis have come up here and population has therefore mushroomed like hell.
    We live in Gurgaon although we have also purchased a flat in Bhiwadi where my elder brother lives with his young family and I sometimes stay over. Vry few people outside Delhi Gurgaon area have eevn heard of the engine of growth that is BHIWADI, it rocks man !!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rizwan,

    I am not familiar with Haryana and Gurgaon. Never been there. Anyway tks for the
    Information.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think Bhiwadi came on the map on account of Gillette setting up its India unit there and then it looks like everybody else followed. Rizwan can correct me on that.

    Ravi Reply:

    I believe that Bhiwadi has had small industrial units for over 50 years. Not sure when Gillete unit was set-up

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rizwan
    How is your Lahore ki kali? hey, I know Keyi family here; quite aristocratic people, I can arrange a girl here in kerala for you if the Lahori backs out… (there is one story here that Keyi family owned Malabar hills land in Mumbai at one time in the age old past)

    Regarding reservations – I am all for govt providing everything – school, coaching, etc etc – to create an environment where all have equality of opportunity. I am against hiring anybody where qualifications are diluted. Also giving seats in professional colleges on lower marks (certain seats can be allocated for disadvantaged group; but qualifications should not be diluted)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rizwan

    “can you tell me what I should say to my Muslim worker who lives in a hut”?

    How would you find an answer to that and how long will you have to wait?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Rizwan is natmastak with humility and pride for these KARGIL HEROES- QUITE SIMPLY THE BEST VIDEO I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFE
    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=ZPADty-baFs
    pl watch whole video it gets better with every minute
    Grenadier Yogender Singh Yadav, 18 Grenadiers, Param Vir Chakra

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    RESERVATIONS – UNIVERSAL or MEANS TESTED

    One of the better ways of looking at RESERVATION, is to view it as a provision rather than as an absolute entitlement.

    The role of the Government is to make suitable provisions for the structurally disadvantaged communities so that they are not perpetually disadvantaged. This it can do either on the basis of means testing – leading to RESERVATION and other hand-outs to be offered ONLY to those that deserve. If this was the policy then developing fair criteria for means testing will always be challenging and its subsequent administration wasteful, expensive and inevitably leading to more corruption.

    Whereas a universal provision – on the whole – is fairish and easy to administer.

    What should happen is that those who are able to compete on equal terms should morally avoid using the reservation quota, leaving it for the more deriving candidates. A form of self-discipline will develop. Those who obtained a seat outside of reservation scheme will feel good about it, even though they could have taken advantage of such a provision.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    “What should happen is that those who are able to compete on equal terms should morally avoid using the reservation quota, leaving it for the more deriving candidates.”
    This sort of idealism rarely ever works in practice. Take a step back and analyse, what is the fight exactly about ? Is it the reservations per se or is it competition for government jobs and admissions into certain prestigious institutes for higher education ? Stated alternately, isn’t it a problem of demand supply, or lack of avenues and opportunities ?
    The problem needs to be solved differently.
    Plus , are we forgetting that government is already de-focusing itself from being employer, with the hope of private sector filling in the gap. So , reservations may no longer be a very optimal tool for helping the structurally dis-advantaged. (Remember, Reservations are not binding on Private Sector).

    Second aspect is about using Caste as a marker for structurally dis-advantaged. IMHO, outside urban India – this marker still holds pretty good.
    A bigger underlying question would be – despite couple of decades of efforts what is it that is sustaining the backwardness ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    “What should happen is that those who are able to compete on equal terms should morally avoid using the reservation quota, leaving it for the more deriving candidates.”
    This sort of idealism rarely ever works in practice. Take a step back and analyse, what is the fight exactly about ? Is it the reservations per se or is it competition for government jobs and admissions into certain prestigious institutes for higher education ? Stated alternately, isn’t it a problem of demand supply, or lack of avenues and opportunities ?
    The problem needs to be solved differently.
    Plus , are we forgetting that government is already de-focusing itself from being employer, with the hope of private sector filling in the gap. So , reservations may no longer be a very optimal tool for helping the structurally dis-advantaged. (Remember, Reservations are not binding on Private Sector).

    Second aspect is about using Caste as a marker for structurally dis-advantaged. IMHO, outside urban India – this marker still holds pretty good.
    A bigger underlying question would be – despite couple of decades of efforts what is it that is sustaining the backwardness ?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    In the UK, even the Private Sector has a quota of “DISABLED” people that they have to honour.

    The company that I work for, is obliged to provide suitable employment to people with such physical handicaps as Blindness, Deafness, and paraplegic, etc.

    I am not sure I agree with your doubt about idealism

    Even in this blog, those who focus on labels have tried to dishonour Shan by suggesting that his medical qualifications are based upon such reservation quota. That clearly suggests that a certain degree of social stigma is attached to such candidates who came via quota.

    So if one is a Rich Muslim, just as Rizwan’s parents are, then the joy of achieving academic achievement without any state help is priceless. However, as Rizwan himself recognises that there are many others Muslim’s who are not in such position and for them the choices may end up being a quota seat or nothing? Under such circumstances social stigma is of secondary importance.

    Lets not forget, in India there are reservations for Railway employees, Defence personnel, etc etc.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    This is just to define the contours of dis-agreement ….
    “Even in this blog, those who focus on labels have tried to dishonour Shan by suggesting that his medical qualifications are based upon such reservation quota. That clearly suggests that a certain degree of social stigma is attached to such candidates who came via quota.”
    I too had precisely same example in mind. Also, see my addendum to earlier comment.

    “So if one is a Rich Muslim, just as Rizwan’s parents are, then the joy of achieving academic achievement without any state help is priceless. However, as Rizwan himself recognises that there are many others Muslim’s who are not in such position and for them the choices may end up being a quota seat or nothing? Under such circumstances social stigma is of secondary importance.”
    Not denying the role of Caste / Community markers for structurally dis-advantaged. However, the tool of reservations itself is hopelessly inadequate. Proverbial elephant in the room is the basic lack of opportuntities. If the playing field itself is small – no matter how well levelled it is , it is always going to be inadequate.

    “Lets not forget, in India there are reservations for Railway employees, Defence personnel, etc etc.”
    Agreed. But then what is their employment potential ?
    Can they – say – free even 0.001 percent of population currently employed in the hell-hole of agriculture ?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    This is just to define the contours of dis-agreement ….
    “Even in this blog, those who focus on labels have tried to dishonour Shan by suggesting that his medical qualifications are based upon such reservation quota. That clearly suggests that a certain degree of social stigma is attached to such candidates who came via quota.”
    I too had precisely same example in mind. Also, see my addendum to earlier comment.

    “So if one is a Rich Muslim, just as Rizwan’s parents are, then the joy of achieving academic achievement without any state help is priceless. However, as Rizwan himself recognises that there are many others Muslim’s who are not in such position and for them the choices may end up being a quota seat or nothing? Under such circumstances social stigma is of secondary importance.”
    Not denying the role of Caste / Community markers for structurally dis-advantaged. However, the tool of reservations itself is hopelessly inadequate. Proverbial elephant in the room is the basic lack of opportuntities. If the playing field itself is small – no matter how well levelled it is , it is always going to be inadequate.

    “Lets not forget, in India there are reservations for Railway employees, Defence personnel, etc etc.”
    Agreed. But then what is their employment potential ?
    Can they – say – free even 0.001 percent of population currently employed in the hell-hole of agriculture ?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,
    This is just to define the contours of dis-agreement ….
    “Even in this blog, those who focus on labels have tried to dishonour Shan by suggesting that his medical qualifications are based upon such reservation quota. That clearly suggests that a certain degree of social stigma is attached to such candidates who came via quota.”
    I too had precisely same example in mind. Also, see my addendum to earlier comment.

    “So if one is a Rich Muslim, just as Rizwan’s parents are, then the joy of achieving academic achievement without any state help is priceless. However, as Rizwan himself recognises that there are many others Muslim’s who are not in such position and for them the choices may end up being a quota seat or nothing? Under such circumstances social stigma is of secondary importance.”
    Not denying the role of Caste / Community markers for structurally dis-advantaged. However, the tool of reservations itself is hopelessly inadequate. Proverbial elephant in the room is the basic lack of opportuntities. If the playing field itself is small – no matter how well levelled it is , it is always going to be inadequate.

    “Lets not forget, in India there are reservations for Railway employees, Defence personnel, etc etc.”
    Agreed. But then what is their employment potential ?
    Can they – say – free even 0.001 percent of population currently employed in the hell-hole of agriculture ?

    Ravi Reply:

    Mahesh

    The size of the field and reservations are two different issues.

    The field may never be of a size which satisfies everyone, under such circumstances we do need a mechanism to help those who have been at a disadvantage for generations

    Anonymous Reply:

    Addendum to my earlier comment …..
    While we may deliberate on Caste as a marker for structurally dis-advantaged and reservations being the tool, there is another aspect here.
    There are non-class aspects too at play here, Caste grouping is biggest one of them. I am not sure, without reservations we would see the practice of “crowding out” other castes wither away.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    ,,

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Means testing may be the only practical universal way.

    Caste/religion etc should not be used at all.

    May be one way to accommodate is by designating PIN codes where special attention is needed, set a fixed time farme , say 10 years.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Gopi

    I am not sure that I agree with you.

    If the disadvantage is caste/religion based then so should be the positive action to counter it.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    ..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    RESERVATION a RATIONALIST AND A HUMANIST’S PERSPECTIVE
    reservation is given to a certain section of society ,SO THAT THEY CAN SEE SOME ROLE MODEL amongst them , they can aspire , and the multiplier effect to do the rest.The fundamental impediment to the progress of BLACKS in USA was their lack of self esteem and self beleif , WHICH HAVE BEEN BURIED ALIVE BY THE WHITE SLAVE MASTERS.Same situation in India , some section of society cannnot even think ,let alone try for climbing the socialladder .FOR THEY HAVE NO ROLE MODEL AMONST THEM IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD.
    But the best away to proceed is to TARGET these POCKETS , and START FROM SCHOOL EDUCATION , with GOOD NUTRITION AND EXTRA GOOD SCHOOL,preparing them for the college , WHERE THEY SHOULD GET INTO RESERVATION QUOTA , because their parents cannot afford TEN PRIVATE PRIVATE TUTORS , ONE FOR EACH SUBJECT.
    But POVERTY should be only criteria and GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. not religion
    but the benefeciaries will be the same , SC/ST/MUSLIMS.
    Just catapulting them to middle class does reduce the chances of humiliation by a higher caste , albeit marginally.
    @ravi , Balls bhondhu describing me as entered medicine through reservation , ONLY CAN POINTB TO A 100% RESERVATION ,if this is what a reservation quota can produce , be it HT blogs or it the operation theatres in UK.
    AS FOR SIKHS 35% of THEM ARE SC/ST CONVERTS

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shan

    “AS FOR SIKHS 35% of THEM ARE SC/ST CONVERTS ”

    Does that matter??

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Singulate, you can also be called doubulate.

    this post takes the cake for doublespeak.

    You have very cleverly given the cover of rationalism and humanism, both of which are fake when it concerns you.

    SCs and STs already enjoy reservations at the entry level as well as in promotions, in central as well as state services. Therefore, you seem to be rationalising reservations for Muslims, comparing them to the blacks of the US, which is absurd, illogical and pervert.

    By no stretch of imagination the two can be compared.

    1. Blacks have never been the rulers of US, Muslims have ruled India for more than 500 years.

    2. Blacks never asked for and got a homeland of their own from the white colonisers, whereas, in India, Muslims fought for and got for themselves Pakistan, the land of the pure.

    3. Muslims were never enslaved, treated like slaves or otherwise discriminated against, unlike the blacks.

    4. Blacks never resorted to conversion of the whites, whereas the Muslims are even now converting Hindus to IUslam.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    all ur argument are wrong.reservation is for mulims converted from dalits and backwards.they were too victim of hindu tyranny for thousands of years.like others who did not converted.blacks were forcibly converted from islam to christianity.why those who read geeta should be given protection while those who read quran should be left behind.less 1%of muslims were ruling india 99%are moolniwasis.treatment with moolnivasis should be same whether they read geeta or bible.reservation is for upliftment of poors.muslims,a hard workin honest race is pushed to poverty.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    all ur argument are wrong.reservation is for mulims converted from dalits and backwards.they were too victim of hindu tyranny for thousands of years.like others who did not converted.blacks were forcibly converted from islam to christianity.why those who read geeta should be given protection while those who read quran should be left behind.less 1%of muslims were ruling india 99%are moolniwasis.treatment with moolnivasis should be same whether they read geeta or bible.reservation is for upliftment of poors.muslims,a hard workin honest race is pushed to poverty.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    Good reply.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Singulate, you can also be called doubulate.

    this post takes the cake for doublespeak.

    You have very cleverly given the cover of rationalism and humanism, both of which are fake when it concerns you.

    SCs and STs already enjoy reservations at the entry level as well as in promotions, in central as well as state services. Therefore, you seem to be rationalising reservations for Muslims, comparing them to the blacks of the US, which is absurd, illogical and pervert.

    By no stretch of imagination the two can be compared.

    1. Blacks have never been the rulers of US, Muslims have ruled India for more than 500 years.

    2. Blacks never asked for and got a homeland of their own from the white colonisers, whereas, in India, Muslims fought for and got for themselves Pakistan, the land of the pure.

    3. Muslims were never enslaved, treated like slaves or otherwise discriminated against, unlike the blacks.

    4. Blacks never resorted to conversion of the whites, whereas the Muslims are even now converting Hindus to IUslam.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    repeat posting- I just saw this
    KARGIL HEROES- QUITE SIMPLY THE BEST VIDEO I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFE
    - http://www.youtube.com/watch?g...
    the video does get even better at the end
    Grenadier Yogender Singh Yadav, 18 Grenadiers, Param Vir Chakra almost died in the assault on Tiger Hill- this man is a hero and so pleasant, articulate and humble

    His bravery humbled me
    Thanks Rizwan

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The reason why muslim reservation is dangerous. Pl. read the argument of Sardar Patel from Congress against muslim reservation.

    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/right-and-wrong/entry/meddling-with-nationhood

    The extent to which the discourse on the vexed issue of reservations has changed over the years is quite remarkable. When the Constitution was being framed, the remnants of the Muslim League argued that independent India should persist with the reservation of seats in legislatures for Muslims and other religious minorities. Predictably, in the aftermath of a Partition that many attributed to the system of separate electorates and the notorious Communal Award, the demand drew a sharp response from the Congress benches.

    Intervening in the debate on August 28, 1947, the then home minister Sardar Patel had some harsh words for the proponents of minority reservation: “I once more appeal to you to forget the past…You have got what you wanted. You have got a separate state and, remember, you are the people who were responsible for it, and not those who remain in Pakistan…What is it that you want now? In the majority Hindu provinces you, the minorities, you led the agitation…Now again you tell me and ask me to say for the purpose of securing the affection of the younger brother I must agree to the same thing again, to divide the country again in the divided part. For God’s sake understand that we have also got some sense…”

    Had a politician of standing delivered a similar speech today, it is certain that the liberal media and the assembled army of secularists would have construed it as a textbook example of ahate speech. Over the years, thanks to changing political fashion, the sharpness of political discourse which was a feature of the national movement, has been blunted and replaced by squeamish angst. This is particularly evident in the debate over the proposal of the Congress to introduce a 4.5% quota-to be raised to 9% if the party wins Uttar Pradesh-for religious minorities in government jobs and higher education.

    In line with the recommendations of the Rajinder Sachar committee report, the issue has been presented as an aspect of India’s quest for social justice. Since many Muslim communities are understood to be even worse placed than dalits in their socio-economic status, the imperatives of social justice, it is argued, demand they be given a helping hand to help them enjoy the full benefits of citizenship. If the politically consequential Other Backward Classes can enjoy the benefits of reservations, or so the argument goes, it is against natural justice to deny similar benefits to people just because they follow a different faith.

    It is a compelling argument and one which has moved the liberal elite. Against this is the letter and spirit of a Constitution that is quite clear that special privileges for minorities must be limited to their absolute right to manage their own religious, cultural and educational institutions-a privilege denied to non-minorities. The Constitution is also categorical that religionbased reservations in government jobs and political representation constitute a big No. Small wonder there is subterfuge involved in concealing the real motives behind the proposal.

    For the Constitution-makers, the status of minorities posed a dilemma. There was a consensus on postponing a common civil code to help Muslims get over their post-Partition disorientation. Yet, the Constituent Assembly was not at ease with the principle of differentiated citizenship. In a landmark intervention, B R Ambedkar, for example, confessed that “I personally do not understand why religion should be given this vast expansive jurisdiction so as to cover the whole of life and to prevent the legislature from encroaching upon that field.”

    The extension of job reservation to Muslims threatens to add a new dimension to differentiated citizenship. From separate personal laws and full cultural and educational autonomy, minority rights are sought to be extended to other arenas including the handling of sectarian conflict. The road is being readied for political reservations at a future date.

    There may be strong electoral compulsions governing the move to institutionalise a separate Muslim identity. But before jumping headlong into legislation, the political class must enter into wider public consultations. The issue is not who is ’secular’ and who is ‘communal’. The stakes are higher: the very character of the Constitution and the meaning of nationhood.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    with time sitaution has changed.nothing is static.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Good article.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This is one of the best in recent times to have come from Swapan Dasgupta. It should be read with his article, which I quoted from Pioneer.

    Nobody, ‘east of pseudo seculars would like to remember what, prophetically, Sardar Patel said about Muslim reservations. Swapan Dasgupta puts it very nicely:

    “Had a politician of standing delivered a similar speech today, it is certain that the liberal media and the assembled army of secularists would have construed it as a textbook example of a hate speech. Over the years, thanks to changing political fashion, the sharpness of political discourse which was a feature of the national movement, has been
    blunted and replaced by squeamish angst. This is particularly evident in the debate over the proposal of the Congress to introduce a 4.5% quota-to be raised to 9% if the party wins Uttar Pradesh-for religious minorities in government jobs and higher education.”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gr8 article. The way out is removing prejudice through fast empowering education.

    It would take 10 years … and an efficient education system which talks about removing caste prejudice and equality of all including minoirties to do it.

    it does not require Rahul Fake Gandhi or Mulayam.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy/Vijay,

    Digvijay aur Rahul hain hamesha ek doosre ke saath,
    Unke upar hai Soniaji ka haath,
    agar unhone nahin badli apni chhal,
    to is election mein padegi unko UP wallon ki laat.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gr8 going Mohan. Another ghalib in the making… :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    jab election mein vote maangne ki ho baath,
    yeh kehte hain, “hum hain aam aadmi ke saath,
    aur hamari neta Soniaji ka hai nahin koi jaath,
    unka hai ek hi yuvraj, jo hai Indira ka naath.”

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy,

    As usual very good one.

  • Anonymous

    Gopi,

    about Indira Gandhi, you said, “She was people’s Priyadarshini.. She could have done so much more…..”

    What about Pandit Jawaharlal Kundanlal Nehru? He too could have done a lot to bring in genuine progress in the social, cultural, educational and economical conditions of the nation. In fact, in his Tryst With Destiny” speech, he was eloquent and sincere too in his intent to bring about the changes which were denied to our country due to slavery.

    Look at what he said, among other things, “Nevertheless, the past is over and it is the future that beckons to us now. That future is not one of ease or resting but of incessant striving so that we might fulfil the pledges we have so often taken and the One we shall take today. The service of lndia means the service of the millions who suffer. It means the ending of poverty and ignorance and disease and inequality of opportunity.”

    What happened in his seventeen long years’ rule? What happened in the next seventeen long years during which the chosen, Indira Priyadarshini, ruled India?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    You know one thing; may be you remember too– In those days Nehru {and later Indira) would travel through the breadth and depth of India — I remember as a child lining up on the present NH 47 (highway from Calicut to Mangalore) to see Nehru and many years later to see Mrs Gandhi. I wonder whether we will ever have leaders and personalities like them where people will forget about their politics to have a glimpse of them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    You know one thing; may be you remember too– In those days Nehru {and later Indira) would travel through the breadth and depth of India — I remember as a child lining up on the present NH 47 (highway from Calicut to Mangalore) to see Nehru and many years later to see Mrs Gandhi. I wonder whether we will ever have leaders and personalities like them where people will forget about their politics to have a glimpse of them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    You know one thing; may be you remember too– In those days Nehru {and later Indira) would travel through the breadth and depth of India — I remember as a child lining up on the present NH 47 (highway from Calicut to Mangalore) to see Nehru and many years later to see Mrs Gandhi. I wonder whether we will ever have leaders and personalities like them where people will forget about their politics to have a glimpse of them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    You know one thing; may be you remember too– In those days Nehru {and later Indira) would travel through the breadth and depth of India — I remember as a child lining up on the present NH 47 (highway from Calicut to Mangalore) to see Nehru and many years later to see Mrs Gandhi. I wonder whether we will ever have leaders and personalities like them where people will forget about their politics to have a glimpse of them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    You know one thing; may be you remember too– In those days Nehru {and later Indira) would travel through the breadth and depth of India — I remember as a child lining up on the present NH 47 (highway from Calicut to Mangalore) to see Nehru and many years later to see Mrs Gandhi. I wonder whether we will ever have leaders and personalities like them where people will forget about their politics to have a glimpse of them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I agree with the general gist of your reply.

    As a child, I travelled to Mangalore in the company of my father to see Nehru from a great distance.

    As a PUC student, I saw him from a distance of just 6 feet when he was being taken round in an open car.

    Many years later, I used to see Indira Gandhi, again from close enough quarters, almost daily, when our paths used to cross on way to our respective offices. I could daily tell my wife,’today I again saw Indira Gandhi!’.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shenoy=
    First of all, let us not attribute any malice to either Nehru or Shrimati Indira Priyadrshini. I believe they thought they are doing good for India when they did what they did.

    We would have been far better off today had Nehru listened to Chakravarthi RajaGopalachari and co. But his belief in Fabian socialism was so firm; he genuinely thought the semi socialism was the way to go. I will fault Nehru on his sense of priority. He was the leader of a country where people shit on the roads, where people were dirt poor — instead of a razor focus on those issues, he travels around for non-alignment and world leadership… (while I m not an admirer of present day China, one thing I like about them is their internal focus — they are not running around, even now, to get international accolade, other countries travel to them). though he pursued socialism he did not have a contempt for capitalists.

    Priyadarshini, through her policies, created two generation of poor people in India. I do give her credit for starting the atomic bomb project, for her firm manly stand on pakistan, and for her attack on the terrorists hiding in the Golden Temple.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi,

    about Indira Gandhi, you said, “She was people’s Priyadarshini.. She could have done so much more…..”

    What about Pandit Jawaharlal Kundanlal Nehru? He too could have done a lot to bring in genuine progress in the social, cultural, educational and economical conditions of the nation. In fact, in his Tryst With Destiny” speech, he was eloquent and sincere too in his intent to bring about the changes which were denied to our country due to slavery.

    Look at what he said, among other things, “Nevertheless, the past is over and it is the future that beckons to us now. That future is not one of ease or resting but of incessant striving so that we might fulfil the pledges we have so often taken and the One we shall take today. The service of lndia means the service of the millions who suffer. It means the ending of poverty and ignorance and disease and inequality of opportunity.”

    What happened in his seventeen long years’ rule? What happened in the next seventeen long years during which the chosen, Indira Priyadarshini, ruled India?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Sinha’s Theory of Relativity ;-) ;-)
    ————-

    BJP is 70% pure, still party with a difference: Yashwant Sinha

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/BJP-is-70-pure-still-party-with-a-difference-Yashwant-Sinha/articleshow/11504274.cms

    Excerpt

    “Every party in parliamentary democracy has to do this (compromise). It has not been done for the first time and also certainly not for the last time,” he was quoted as saying by agencies, adding that “nobody or any party can claim to be 100% pure”. “But BJP is 70% pure while others are only 20% (pure). So, still BJP is a party with a difference,” he said.

    Sinha was replying to queries on how BJP could claim to be a “party with a difference” even after induction of Kushwaha, which came after the party formed a government in Jharkhand with the support of JMM whose leader Shibu Soren is facing corruption charges.

    “No political party runs as a theological or charitable organisation. As per the age-old dictum that politics is the art of the possible, every party has to combine ideology and practical wisdom,” he said.

    ————-

    1) Would Einstein be proud of Yashwant Sinha?

    2) How did he manage to arrive at 70% and 20% figures?

    3) Now will Yashwant Sinha care to identify the 30% ‘impure souls’ or everyone in the party is individually 70% ‘pure’ and 30% ‘impure’?

    4) Shouldn’t the following

    “So, still BJP is a party with a difference,” he said.

    be rephrased as

    So, still BJP is a party with differences,” he said. ???

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    very lame..both Yashwant Sinha and you..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~~ HOW QUOTA POLITICS ONLY DIVIDES WITHOUT IMPROVING,too much ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    @ Rizwan,

    Let me be blunt, withut any intention to hurt feelings. Hell in case I can’t be frank in a faceless blog, where the hell can I be?

    First of the constitution bans reservatons on religious lines– and there was a historical background to it. The quota system followed in electorate which lead to splitting of the country. It is possible that the Congress in its mad rush to get votes, and with low IQ duffers like Dumb Gudda Rahul and Digvinash as leaders, may amend the constitution, but then it will be a sad day. Further on it will create so much resentment against Muslims that we will be a divided country as never before.

    The first question people will ask is “Is there somthing wrong with Islam that ALL Muslims need reservations?”

    You and I already know the answers. No. Nothing wrong with Islam. Well Muslims in India have been fine scientists like Abdul kalam and S Z Qasim, Great writers like K A Abbas and Javed Akhtar, and fantastic showmen like Sharukh Khan. And for me a connoieseur of fine things– some really appreciable beauties like— Katrina, Tabu and……. Madhubala !

    SO apparently in the end all of us are as talented, whichever race or religion we belong too.

    To get over any prejudice I may have (which I dont have anyway!)– I sublet the first floor of my house to a Muslim friend. How could I refuse, especially since he was having a bit of a problem finding a house. The only difference I notice is about Non Veg food– my mom being strict veg and I am not– but that too has been sorted out as we have decided that the the bones would be disposed quietly!

    But the damn point is how can anyone say that just being Muslim should qualify you for a reservation? This implies that there is something of a educational handicap being a Muslim. At best it could be a minority sub quota. And in case other minoirities too qualify for it– then there is no gaurantee Muslims will get the jobs.

    The fact is many people already feel that there are many Centrally and state government funded minority institutions which discriminate against NOn Muslims directly and indirectly in admissions.

    The correct way for enhancing Muslim representation would then be

    a) letting them qualify under the backward classes with riders for creamy laters

    b) Removing the barriers which dampen their access to modern competitive education.

    I think Educated Muslims should well become more aggressive in demanding more centrally funded CBSE type Navodyaya / Central schools where Muslims live. A thousand such schools in Muslim districtsw will do more for employment and enrepreneurship then all these fake quota schemes.

    c) Empowering of women. A certain mindset in India stops Muslims girls from being educated and employed. Our friend Engrich immediately jumped and said removing the purdah means prostitution. I think it is time we put the engriches into purdah and bury them into a kafan ! :)

    Anyway this is a long post. SO in case you repond we will carry the dialogue forward…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    Good post. Almost everyone here is advocating that reservation should be only
    for economically backward people. Another point is that we should stop
    blaming others for our backwardness/poverty. Indian politicians are very clever
    and they exploit this situation for their benefit. Once we stop blaming others
    for our misfortune/failures, our politicians will also fall in line and will start
    forming good long term policies and will not resort to appeasing non-beneficial
    policies.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan

    They have succeeded in their game, these politicians. Nobody talks about the gunda raj of Mulyam, the corruption of the Congress and the personal fortune of Maya, the selection of corrupt Kushawa by BJP. It is all about Quotas…

    That is the poilitcal game

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar,

    a very nice post, especially about the kafan for the pest of the blog, engrich.

    I will contribute 50% of the cost of the whole process.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Thank you for the 50% . I think if all the blog people give their opinion the issue would be oversubscrubed 500%

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Sir,

    Very nice post.

    One small question :

    How would you QUICKLY identify 176 poor people in Delhi ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad,

    How BPL card is issued ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar Sir,

    I am sure Vijay Sir will find answers for both of us.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad,

    There is some system in place according to which these BPL cards are issued. Whether
    this system is followed properly or not is a different matter. In the same way if
    government seriously and honestly want, they can find your 176 poor people in Delhi.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan Sir,

    I would love Vijay Sir to answer this. I would also like to point out that you missed the key word “QUICKLY” in my question.

    Anonymous Reply:

    What about using 2011 census data? Are all congressis nuts like you?

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Mohan

    Thank you for saying so. I am sorry my reply resluted in multiple postings, which will definately irritate some people. My apologies.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Prahlad sir,

    Here is a list of people who should definately not qualify for reservations.

    Vinod Sharma– as he loves kababs and wine

    Gopi–for his love for single malt

    Vijay Kumar– becasue he loves wining , dining and….. well 3 w’s :)

    Mohan– for he will laugh and crack a joke in case he is given reservations

    And Prahlad– for throwing a googly that only the Congress, Digviansh and Rahul have the brains for creating the criteria for identyfying the poor :)

    Cmon Prahald, sir, the criteria for identifying the poor cannot be caste and relgion. This wa we will keep having reservations for the next 1000 years and no solution. This has lead to a situation where a 1000 crore fodder eater like lalu will have his progenies qualify for reservations and the multiple real estate holding Mayawati’s brother even more eligible.

    It requirews an honest bureaucracy and a list of checks like
    a) No pucca house
    b) Physically checking which job the parents hold, certified by the local DM
    c) belonging to “backward’ areas like deep inside odisha or Chattisgarh or Himachal

    Etc. Of course the idea of an honset bureaucracy which could be kept in check by the Lok Pal would have been ideally checking the qualifiers.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Sir,

    I am not sure if my simple question deserves such complex answer and yet does not answer my question !

    Could we have a small , lucid and simple answer, please !

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Prhalad Sir

    Cmon you are never going to be satisfied with my answer unless I say that Rahul has found the solution ! but more seriously…. if the Congress thinks that it has scored an ace by announcing 9% possible reseravtions for Muslims it may be in for a surprise.

    The Gujjars and jats of Greater noida feel that their share is going to be reduced and are out to kick the COngress. I was with some farmers today at a site. And most of them are now gong back to Mayawati/SO much for dividing society. Ideally poor muslims should be made elgibale. But not by dividing society, imagining it to be an Italian pizza…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Sir,

    I am repeating my question again.

    “How would you QUICKLY identify 176 poor people in Delhi ? “

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ prahlad

    Why should I think that this should be done quickly?

    I would look for people
    a) Live in jhuggis and slums

    b) Whose parents are not educated and dont have any business

    c) I would check out what is the level of income the parents have

    I would build schools across Delhi of high standrds and do a survey of all children in each area. I would have special officers who get those children to school and make sure tht they are penalties on parents who stop them for doing so.

    I know the Congressis will try to make fun of this. And instead try to locate some saying of the Nehru parivar from motilal to rahul, on how to identify poor. And that is why… the country needs a new mindset… !

    I know you will still say that “you have not answered my question ”

    But then I also know you will only be satisfied in case I say “Rahul and Digviansh have some hidden formula for discovering the poor…”

    And take this in the debating spirit please…. :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Sir,

    I tried to look for answer to my question in your post.

    You have mentioned :

    *******
    1)

    Why should I think that this should be done quickly?
    -

    Vijay Sir,

    Everything has a life span. Things must be done or be attempted to be done in a certain timeframe.

    If a task like finding 176 poor people in Delhi rattles you so much then think of the enormity of task identifying poor fellow Indians in this large and populous country.

    I am glad you you have given some indications to the metrics you would like to follow.

    *******
    ********
    2)

    I would look for people
    a) Live in jhuggis and slums

    b) Whose parents are not educated and dont have any business

    c) I would check out what is the level of income the parents have

    ********
    Vijay SIr,

    Mark carefully. You took a “class” approach to identify poor people even if your assertion may not be true.

    a) Do you think everybody living in alums are poor ?

    Check out people living in many slums. So many of them own autos, trucks. many of them are landlords. I believe Dharavi slum is actually owned by just few people ! Rest are just tenants !

    Never mind.

    b) Your assertion about “poor and uneducated parents” may also not be true.

    The son could be educated and not poor.

    c) Your argument about income level of parent is just an extension of the argument forwarded by you in (b).

    Vijay Sir ! What was the purpose of my question ?

    That even to answer my hypothetical question of ” finding poor people” in metro city like Delhi, you took “class” approach instead of identifying at individualistic level.

    Now, think like a resource planner for the country and see if you can avoid the “class approach” to solve the misery and poverty in this large and populous country.

    Thanks for your patience.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Prahlad

    I think we are quiblling about details. Caste and religion is a bad way.

    removing caste barriers and integrating relgions and harmony is the right way.

    In case we can by census determine the number of poor in the country, and the number of people… then I dont think locating the poor is such a huge issue.

    If malaysia or UK can do it or for that matter Singapore, do you really think that we are such duds?

    All countries can identify the poor. Even the poor come forward to be identified. This is not the big issue…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Sir,

    I never attempted to debate the details. I was just referring to the STARTING POINT for any welfare scheme.

    Taking Class approach is inevitable for welfare schemes in India.

    In other countries too the Govt. refers to “communities” ( asian/hispanic/black etc.) for identifying the disadvantage groups and mark the welfare schemes accordingly.

    In the beginning all welfare schemes are mostly broadbased and slowly they get fine-tuned as the progress happens.

    For welfare schemes in India the Govts ( irrespective of party affiliations) tend to mark castes/religions as clearly identifiable groups for historical reasons.

    I think your argument about identifying ” all economically backward “individuals” before adopting welfare schemes stand on a very weak ground.

    Small example :

    Think yourself as an officer in charge of “relief distribution” in a large flooded area.

    Would you start identifying “individuals” affected by flood before distributing relief?

    Or, would you take “cluster approach” ?

    Please think.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Viju

    THE SCHOOLS IDEA MAKES ALL THE SENSE.

    The govt and institutional systems should provide a platform for “equality of opportunity”.. The schools in targeted areas do provide that.

    ‘THE DIVIDE AND RULE’ strategy has to stop.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Gopi

    I am a strong beleiver in education. 10 years of schooling which makes fun of the case system and informs the student that we are the only country which practice it and make him feel ashamed. And ten years of schooling which makes people take pride in religous harmony and seculairsm.

    At the end of the board exam… we could have a different mindset of youn in this country. AND I DONT BUY THIS ARGUEMENT THAT THIS IS KIDDISH THINKING.

    If we can create scince and art students fit for qualifying the best of Univs in the world… this is child’s play.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay,

    “”10 years of education which makes fun of the caste system
    and 10 years of schooling which makes people take pride
    in religious harmony and secularism”"

    Very interesting. You have made me think in different way.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Thx Mohan.

    My philosphy in life is always of a doer. After some theoritical discussions, just go and do it. Life is pretty simple that way.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Do as any other country have caste or religious based reservations? How do they encourage the underprievelaged?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Perez,

    I liked your post. Agree with you.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    HOnestly I would want an opinoin of others… are we more integrated as a society now as compared to say 30 years back?.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez-
    This is my observation-
    We are more, much much more, integrated across regional boundaries – I believe there is more “Indian” rather than “Malayali, Kannadiga, Hindi etc”.. The booming economy in the metro areas, migration of people (both professionals to cities like Bangalore, Hyderabad, as well as labourers from Bihar/Assam/West Bengal to Kerala etc) have helped that..plus internet/TV. Celebrations like Onam, Holi, Pongal etc are now “Indian” rather than a particular region’s

    I also think there is not much of a caste issue, at least in South India, definitely not in kerala. So, there is a level (can be higher) of integration there.

    On the religion side, I think, unfortunately it is a mixed story. In fact, it may have gone worse – All the more reason that politicians do not stroke it further by the talk of special reservation etc.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Vijay

    I think the idea is very interesting. Rizwan is right that many Musllims wallow in poverty. However I would attribute the blame both to society and to Muslims who have let selfish politicians create a destructive agenda for them.

    My visit to a Jama Masjid friday prayers some months back was interesting. Somehow the gathering was told that the biggest problem facing them was the Americans who were capturing Afghanistan and Iraq. And the Indian politicians who wanted to destroy Muslim rights in India. Somehow being Muslim means having an agenda different from that of other citizens of this country. Immediate problems of education, having skills which made you fit for modern day competitive society and integration is never an agenda.

    Having said that, I would also want the rest of India not to view us with suspician. We are not the people who wanted partitition. Those who did have gone away. Anyone who voices their thoughts is a common enemy of the nation.

    In the end, exclusive reservations for Muslims will breed resentment. The trick is to make Muslims also interested in education and giving them a chance to do so.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    why would Bukhari talk abt america, afghastan, iraq etc.. what relevance it has

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Gopi

    Well that is the problem. That you are partt of a larger Islamic world under attack from other relgions and other countries. Unfortunately for him, more and more Muslims are seeing through his game.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez,

    again, you have talked sense and also some very disturbing thoughts.

    The Muslims slipped badly after partition. They took the guilt for the partition upon themselves, wholly unnecessarily. That was the time to assert their indian-ness and to say we are equal partners in this country.

    Instead, they literally mortgaged their future to the wily politicians, who have been milking the community for votes. In the process, the entire Muslim community and the country at large became the losers.

    The future, though looks tough, is by no means a gone case. It is on youngsters like you who have to stop all kinds of exploitation.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Rightly said.

    They have been some people on this blog who have made a living by trying to paint you as a right winger and anti-Muslim.

    Pervez’s honest postings and your reactions just proves how hollow those agendawallas were.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, Gopi, Mohan, Parvez,

    the issue of economic, social and educational backwardness of sections of Muslims is much above individuals like me. Being right-wing is not a crime and I am not anti-Muslim. I never was.

    But, I am anti-anti-Indian jihadis like fake Ravi and engrich. I am also anti-congressi trolls who shamelessly support theiur jihadi agenda.

    I also sympathise Vinod Sharma’s discomfiture at having to tolerate the anti-Hindu rants of the jihadis, one of whom he was compelled to expel from his blog not too long ago.

    AND I AM PRO ALL MUSLIMS WHO SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez/Shenoy-

    I really believe that we have to stop viewing/treating various issues and problems as “All India” and start viewing them through a state/local/regional prism.

    For example, if we look at Muslim backwardness, and slice the numbers, it can be easily boiled down to a Bihar/UP/West Bengal problem. On further analysis, one can also conclude that their problem is not that different from other poor people of that region. Kerala Muslims do not need any “upliftment” assistance, so also Tamil and Kannada Muslims.

    Similarly, the female infanticide is a problem mainly with certain North- Indian regions, especially Haryana. So, rather than clamouring that India has a female infanticde problem, the policy makers should focus on the specific region.

    I believe we are at a stage that States should be responsible for certain performance guidelines; and no central money should be allocated if they do not meet certain performance standards/metrics

    Anonymous Reply:

    Hamne suna tha ek hai Bharat
    Sab mulkon se nek hai Bharat

    lekin hum jo dekh rahe hain,
    kya ekta kahin bhi dikhai de rahi hai?
    pooch-taach karne par bhi,
    neki kahin bhi milti kyon nahin hai?

    Anonymous Reply:

    Parvez -
    You are absolutely right – Mother India, the eternal India is all of ours – we may be painted Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim on the outside; but we are all the great great —— sons and daughters of the learned men and women who walked on these plains thousands of years ago.

    [Reply]

    engrich Reply:

    in UP representation of muslims as patwari is .6(point six )percent.in a prejuced society resevation is must.but dont take backward quota.hindu extremist is against this.they are afraid that it will open the floodgate of conversion.reservation to dalits and backward is a bribe to remain in hindu samaj.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Army chief suing the government. Issue is Age. Will such thing happen anywhere in
    World ? Why this cannot be settled amicably ? Is it ego ?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    i think the gen is a straight forward guy — lot retired generals do not like him.

    u r right –it should have been set internally and not become a press issue

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Mohan, Gopi,

    both of you are right on this issue.

    The general should have been given the benefit of one year’s service, but the civilian baboos have been cussed, silly, small-minded and managed to create a mess.

    I wish Antony were more assertive and had put his foot down on the whole thing.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopiji/Shenoy,

    Internationally it is spoiling the image of India. Army chief
    at loggerhead with the government. We are not Pakistan.
    I hope better sense will prevail and matter will be settled
    amicably.

  • Anonymous

    Playing Pakistan is a mistake as they have done nothing about 26/11.

    [Reply]

  • Arjun

    The older generation of Indian players used to be much less aggressive compared to Pakistan or Australia because most of them were out of shape and were afraid to pick up a fight with a Aussie or a **** who were in better physical shape. However, the newer generation of Indians are in much better physical shape and are not afraid of the Aussie or the **** and can initiate aggressive interactions.

    [Reply]

  • snowman

    what india has done about samjota train blasts ,about bombing pakistani mosques,about supporting terriorists on af-pak border …………killing muslims in gujrat,killing sikhs in punjab,killing kashmiris……………so Mr LG2012…………….Hope for a better future………Why we indians and Pakistanis are involved in Arms race bcoz super powers do nt want us to be friends and progres……..Its high time ,we should be friends and spent money to eradicate poverty in the region…..

    [Reply]

    Robert Reply:

    Indians are talking about terrorists, trained, armed and brainwashed, arriving in India to destroy the fabric of a peaceful people. What is happening inside India, is India’s business. As all your politicians, you too fabricate a story of India’s support to terrorists in Af-Pakistani boarder and even if you have missed, India’s support to Baluchis, India does not involve in such activities, although it is high time that India creats her proxi. Your remark against Modi is unwarented, as Hindhus and Christians, are killed on a daily basis in Pakistan. No Indian politicians nor a layman speaks about it, solely because it is internal matters of Pakistan. Why no Pakistani speaks about the creation of various terror groups in Pakistan itself. Becasue violence is a hobby for Pakistan, a society that cannot live without it.

    [Reply]

  • Guest

    who cares about the spat! We shouldn’t be playing with them in the first place? Did BCCI or the politicians loose any of theirs in 26/11? Things don’t hit home till one os theirs gets affected? Media should boycott the series completely? We Indians are fools to sepnd money on this senseless series.

    [Reply]

  • salar

    Referring to the following comments … linking cricket with politics is a shame !

    [Reply]

  • salar

    Commenting on the article .. wasn’t it Shoaib Malik who was caught on a NO-BALL ?

    [Reply]

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    [Reply]

  • Mukesh

    very good article…! well done mr ananthanarayan..! I fully agree..!

    [Reply]