Why downloading doesn’t always do it



Ever since last week when I first heard Pearl Jam’s Backspacer, their newest album, I’ve been obsessively listening to it over and over again. It’s a mighty fine album and if you read the review in last Saturday’s Rock ’n’ Roll Circus in Hindustan Times by my colleague Indrajit Hazra you’ll know what I mean. Backspacer is a whopper; a cracker of an album from the band. Pearl Jam has been around for nearly 20 years, much longer than what many bands take to burn out or become their own stupid caricatures—I’m sure you know the ones I’m talking about.

Miles Davis’ Bitches Brew

Not so Pearl Jam. The ten albums that make up their main discography have mostly been great pieces of work (alright, I didn’t quite get off on 1998’s Live on Two Legs, but still). And I’ve got all of them. Not in downloaded formats; not mp3s that reside inside my iPod or storage disks but as CDs, complete with liner notes, pictures and what have you.

Some bands are like that. They make you obsessive about getting all their albums. I have every album of R.E.M. even though there are many in the band’s 29-year and 15-album history that are really pathetic. Such as 2001’s Reveal and 2004’s Around The Sun. Of course, they made amends with last year’s Accelerate—which is a kind of return to their past glory. I know people who have hundreds of recordings, bootlegged or otherwise, of every Grateful Dead show that they could lay their hands on and I have heard hair-splitting debates about which version of Dark Star is the best or which Drums>Space>The Other One jam is the most mind-blowing. Likewise for the band that inherited the Dead’s mantle, Phish. There are some who have downloaded every Phish concert in the band’s history ever since the Vermont based chaps started touring in 1983 till they took a hiatus in 2004. Now that they’ve reunited again, I’m sure the Phish-heads are again filling up their disk drives.

That though is digital amassing, which is very different from having a physical copy of an album that you can touch, read liner notes of and see the pictures. In the pre-cassette tape, pre-CD days, vinyl albums were a joy to possess. Albums such as The Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) also came with urban legends surrounding them. Besides identifying the 70-odd famous people on the cover—including at least three Indian gurus—we heard how an image of Mahatma Gandhi was to have originally gone on the cover but was yanked at the last moment because EMI thought it would not be allowed to be printed in the Indian edition of the record.

Such trivia apart, vinyl album covers often came with excellent art work and/or reading material. I still read Ralph J. Gleason’s liner notes for Miles Davis’s genre-bending masterpiece, Bitches Brew. Gleason, a noted music critic and a founding editor of Rolling Stone magazine, wrote the notes in 1969 and captured the essence of what Davis and his collaborators were doing on that historic album so well that I won’t be surprised if hundreds of people got turned on to modern jazz because of it. I know I did. Here’s how Gleason began the note: “There is so much to say about this music. I don’t mean so much to explain about it because that’s stupid, the music speaks for itself. What I mean is that so much flashes through my mind when I hear the tapes of this album that if I could I would write a novel about it full of life and scenes and people and blood and sweat and love…”

Some album art was intriguing. In the early 1970s, British band Jethro Tull released their concept album Thick as a Brick in a cover that was a spoof of a local newspaper, complete with news stories, crossword, photographs, etc. As school kids we didn’t realise it then but later learnt that it was a kind of satire on provincial journalism. The cover also had lyrics of the seamless one-track album scattered through the “newspaper”. Rolling Stone’s Sticky Fingers (1971) came with a working fly zipper and British rock band Traffic’s Shootout At The Fantasy Factory (1973) had the corners of the album cut to give it a 3D effect.

It’s fairly easy to collect the complete works of some bands in CD form today. And although the size of the Sgt. Pepper’s CD makes it nearly impossible to recognise who is who on the cover, you still have it in physical form. That’s precisely why I think the re-mastered complete Beatles box-set found millions of buyers. I know many people who have physical copies of either vinyls, cassettes or CDs of most of Bob Dylan’s 30 plus studio albums (I myself have 15), although I must confess that rarely have I popped in the eminently forgettable ones such as Saved, Shot of Love or Down In The Groove. Still, I like to have them.

Besides the older stuff such as Dylan, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Van Morrison and so on, I like collecting albums (CDs, usually) of many contemporary bands—those that I become very fond of. My current obsession is to try and buy every album by indie rockers Sonic Youth (they’ve released 16) that I can lay my hands on. And each of the 12 studio albums that lo-fi pioneers, Yo La Tengo, have issued. And you thought this column was about downloading music!

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  • Nelson Thomas

    Hello Mr.Narayan, I am a regular reader of your column, all i want to ask you is where do you buy your CDs from, any particular store you patronize?

    [Reply]

    Sanjoy Narayan Reply:

    Hi,
    Thanks for your comment. I tend to buy music online or from Amazon. In India, I go to Landmark or a few other smaller stores.

    [Reply]

  • Pankaj Karvande

    Dear Mr. Sanjoy Narayan Sir,

    I’ve a habit of reading ur informatory column. I’m used only to Bryan Adams. It helps to know the expanse of Western music.
    Well!! this time I’ve tried to pen some English lyrics & am trying for a break as a musician.
    Would u?

    {C++
    Break proposal

    I get up in the morning & I don’t have anything to say
    I come home in the evening, I go to bed feeling the same way
    I am nothing but tired, I am just tired & bored with myself
    Hey there baby, I could use just a little help
    I can’t start a fire
    I can’t start a fire without a spark || 1 ||

    Message keeps getting clearer,
    TV’s on & I am moving round the place,
    I check my look in the mirror
    Want to change my clothes, my hair & face
    I am getting nowhere
    Just sitting in a place like this
    There is something happening somewhere
    I just know that there is
    I can’t start a fire
    You worried about your little world falling apart || 2 ||

    Sitting around getting older
    This is just a joke on me
    I’ll shake this world of my shoulders
    Come on lady give your amazing grace to me
    I stay on the streets of Mumbai
    & they are carving me up all right
    They said I got to stay hungry
    Hey girl, I’ve been starving throughout
    I am dying for some action
    I am sick of sitting round trying to write this book
    I need a love reaction
    Come on!! Ma’am give me that one look
    But you know I can’t start a fire
    When your mind will be crying over an unknown past || 3 ||
    Meanwhile, I feel to be like a goat grazing at the butcher
    By the hook, in oblivion, only to be hung later || bridge ||
    {C++

    [Reply]

    Sandy Dunnigan-Taylor Reply:

    Pankaj,

    Amazing stuff. I think you are really moving in the right direction choosing music and composition as your career path. I bet you play some instruments too. Like to hear more from you here or elsewhere and looking forward to your first album.

    Regards.

    Sandy.

    [Reply]

  • Vsrivas

    Once again another Shivaji (Modi) is staking his claim to the throne of Bharat, will he win in this battle of panipat….this nation has always lost on the hands of its traitors….serious battle to follow…..may Shivaji win this time and change the course of history

    [Reply]

  • Ravi S

    Pankaj, I have read the article, not sure what you had in mind, when you asked me to read it, interesting as it was, it broke no new News.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Regarding Modi’s PM candidature I have some doubts. There is a long way to 2014. If Modi and Rahul are projected from their respective parties as PM, it will not be easy for Modi as his fans think. The minority votes which are now divided between secular parties may get consolidated and and go to CONG solidly to keep Modi away. The 20% of minorities vote and 20% of solid Votes of Congress may bring more seats to CONG. BJP has no base in many states. Nitish and some other NDA leaders may not help Modi. Modi fans are over enthusiastic. Even in BJP, many leaders are not in favour of projecting Modi as PM. However it is true that Rahul has no charisma of Modi. Fasting should not be used for publicity or for political advantage -then it becomes mockery of Gandhiji ./bsc

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @Mr Sharma,
    Why should a Sonia-Rahul-Congress supporter like you be concerned about who BJP leader is ? Should you not welcome Modi as the leader so that all you have to do is stand on sidelines and shout ‘communal, communal’ and that would wash away congress corruption, incompetance and communalism ? Or are you afraid of Modi as BJP leader ?

    [Reply]

  • Frukwala

    Of course he has, and he sold himself cheap, very cheap.

    [Reply]

  • Digvijay Singh

    its not about what BJP needs, its about what India needs. India needs Namo. Modi is an idea whose time has come. Time for MMS to make way for the king

    [Reply]

  • laxman

    I AGREE WITH VINOD.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Sharma,

    1. Whatever happened in 2002 in Gujrat was not a pogrom as suggested by you. They were riots instigated by the minority community. The majority paid them back although Hindus were also killed in a significant number. Their lives count for less though!! Mr. Modi was new to the chair of the CM of Gujrat at that time and did all he could to contain it within 72 hours. If the memories of th riots are still alive, the blame/credit should squarely rest on biased propaganda of the Congress and their paid journos.

    2. JD(U) is not obliged to attend a fast by the CM of a political allie. If they have serious issues with either the BJP or Mr. Modi (an integral part of the party), he should call off the alliance in Bihar. Can you see that happening?

    3. If Mr. Modi hasn’t been given a clean cheat by the SC, has he been even made an accused? Could any one come up with any substantial proofs against him in last 10 years. Allegations don’t count.

    4. You say: No whole-hearted support from BJP – you must be kidding.

    5. Mr. Modi needs no praise from anywhere as a certificate. The growth in the state is there for all to see. It is inclusive and the Muslims in the state have benefitted as well.

    6. Compare the growth of Gujrat vs the state of the nation under the able leadership of the so-called country’s best economist and person of high integrity. We are living in a state of high interest rates, high inflation and rampant corruption.

    The choice for the electorate would be an easy one. Bring on the elections – 2014. See you then Mr. Sharma.

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    And the prospect that Mohan Bhagwat will become a Prime Minister- once removed – is filling me with dread that I last felt when I saw Bhoot Bangla.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    MOhan Bhagwat as per my knowledge is not in acitve politics. Only a dreamer would ever believe that he is going to be the PM.

    However the chances of Digvijay coming in are real as outlined by our friend Vijay. The Gandhi family needs street smart chamchas. Digvijay fits the mould.

    It would be a disaster for India… Or do you think he is the right successor to Manmohan?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi would like terrorists like Osama to rule India..He is two faced SOB.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    is that so? I am new to this blog…

    Anonymous Reply:

    He is total fake..He was the only one on this blog who mourned death of Osama as if he was his bewaa.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi,

    I think you must have been v ery innocent or a terror symapathiser if you did that…

    Ravi Reply:

    Yes Sanjay, I am very innocent altogether. I beleive RSS is a social work organistaion and that the earth is flat.

    Happy now??

    Anonymous Reply:

    Arre bhaiya… O my uncle…

    The danger of this madcap, the Donquixote Rahul and the Sancho Panza Digvinash coming to power is real.

    Thum khushi khushi UK mein theory par theory maartta rahega…

    We people will suffer !

    Ravi Reply:

    I believe that you will suffer more under Bhagwati policies than an of Digvijay’s or Rahul’s

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    Bhagwat is NOT in the race to be the PM. Digviash SIngh is… We can deport him ot the UK, if you luv his ideas so much. For a start he would link the London train bombings to a RSS group…

    Ravi Reply:

    Sanjay

    Which bit of “once removed” did you not understand.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mohan and Shoeb

    As he has chosen not to express any remorse and apologise for his failure to protect the lives of innocent people under his tutelage then, that is why he is stuck in Gujarat – 10 years have passed since then. He had a good opportunity to do so at the recent Sadbhavna fast (make that Sad Bhavna farce).

    Whether he is too shrewd not to fall in the “trap”, only time will tell.

    Modi and you two have forgotten that

    To err is human, to seek forgiveness divine.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb, Mohan,

    Too bad the great humanist Rajiv Gandhi too forgot about the divinity of forgiveness. Even his widow couldn’t bring herself to accept that her husband had ordered the massacre of 4000 Sikhs. After two decades she forced a very contrived, phony, duplicitous “apology” from Manmohan Singh, a Sikh himself, but took care to make pogrom-tainted Tytler a minister in her ministry!

    A bigger farce is being enacted right now in Delhi about who should resign first-Pranab or Chidambaram. The still bigger farce will be when Manmohan Singh himself will be forced to put in his papers after giving first Raja and now Chidambaram clean chits.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    I find it interesting when people of who follow religion of violence revere Gandhi for their vested interest.

    Ravi lauding Gandhi is like Osama talking about non-violence.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A terrorist who justifies Osama’s ideology, Islamic terrorism considers Gandhi father of the nation…
    He is called Ravi..the fake sikh.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Sanjay,
    I have found that people from Villages know of Netaji more than city guys.
    It was a norm to have pictures of Gandhi, Netaji on the walls few decades back.
    As per current govt., Nehru-gandhi family is divine and rest are trash..it was same rule then.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Just few years back, congressis used to shout for MMS ‘Singh is king’…few days from now they will shout ‘Singh is SIN-KING’.
    (has two meanings boojho to jaane).

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Rajeev

    Well Singh may Sink. Somewhere I feel there was better way for him to go. his legacy as a reformer is huge.

    The present naked lust of a few Congressmen to get the PM’s seat has made him seem to be weak.

    Somewhere we have to place manmohan ji as among best PM’s to rule India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Sanjay

    you are right. Dr MMS is a great man, a great patriot who saved India in its darkest need. He knows he is not a “leader” of the people; but he gave his best when called on by his country.

    It is unfair that the BJP trolls here lump him along with vermins like Digvijay.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shoeb

    Nice to know that you agree with me. I remember 1991. The country was bankrupt. 23% inflation prevailed becasue fo VP SIngh’s disasterous rule. Out Oil import bill was larger than our total exports.

    Nobody wanted to laon money to us.

    And a socialist thought process of government enterprises only, only prevailed.

    Manmohan Singh changed all this.

    the present generation may not know all this.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb,
    I am not alleging anything against MMS. All I am saying is that his time is over..he is sinking to the bottom. I accuse him of only one thing..He kept mum when his ministry also called Chalis chor were looting India freely.
    Lastly I don’t consider BJP my party but I’ll choose it over Nehru-Gandhis led congress any day.

  • Anonymous

    Manhar
    I was simply making an argument on Sharma’s views/non-views. He made statements like “gory past”, “how to win elections”, “connection with the riot victims etc”.. and my point was that all that is non-sense.

    It was not a value-judgement on the man; but a point by point refuting of Sharma’s points. (Sharma said he cannot win elections, he also said he cannot get out of his gory past, and said he didnt connect with the victims)

    I related to Modi’s winning experience that he won on his own,and not thru any family lineage (you are right; others have won too; but Sheila has a lineage; may be not Mayawati) ; so he need not listen to “pundits” like Sharma.

    And the argument is that he should ignore what the press says and move on. Let the people decide. Obviously, he should be cognizant (which I am sure he is) of the PR barrage, since that is all what the opposition has; and he should give *** for tat.

    I am not talking about overlooking anybody’s faults. Let the public voters decide if he can lead the country. He has not been convicted of any crime — this whole notion is a fa-rfetched theme of Congress to deny election victory. Modi knows that; many in BJP also know that.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    By all means, counter or agree with whoever expresses an opinion. That is what civilised debate is all about,

    In this case, I found your counter defence rather suspect and not very convincing. You may throw my rejoinder out of the window – no problem whatsoever.

    I am sure, he will never be convicted of any crime, which politician worth his salt has ever been convicted in India? We can count them on finger tips. Tragic indeed.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    If people are wondering as to who Dr. N. S. Rajaram is, here is the link
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._S._Rajaram

    which too can be taken with a pinch of salt as also the above article by him.

    Here is a link that can be an eye opener re: Dr. Rajaram

    http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl1720/17200040.htm

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar,

    Thanks.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Manohar_T , dont need to take it from rajaram , take it from me .
    Read patrick french” liberty or death”
    Fall of singapore WAS A PIVOTAL MOMENT IN THE BEGINING OF THE END.
    The most IMPORTANT REASON WAS AMERICAN PRESSURE ON BRITISH
    this Atlee comment is new to me .
    GANDHIJI’S ONLY CONTRIBUTION IS THE CONCEPT OF NON VIOLENCE AS AN IDEOLOGICAL WEAPON.
    GANDHIJI’S ANTICS HAD ZERO EFFECT ON THE BRITISH , IT HAD A NUISANCE VALUE, IT HAD NO CONTRIBUTION IN ACHEIVING INDEPENDENCE
    As we saw Gandhi could do nothing to prevent partition . Jinnah always felt GANDHI REPRESENTED ORTHODOX HINDU CLASS
    No wonder netaji called him an old sofa

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    This Attlee comment – is it officially documented somewhere or is it Rajaram and his types’ manufactured tale for RSS’ propaganda?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar

    No dearth for revisionists! Looks like Rajaram is the opposite of Romlla.. both bad!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Agree. Always be wary of people with nefarious agendas.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Mishraji,
    I have no fight with Pakistani people- at least the innocents; there are plenty of those. And, I have no fight with children, anywhere.
    Ah, no; I was not on that bus- nor do I think much of Vajpayee’s poetry. And little that I know of Sardar Patel, I doubt he would have sensed an opportunity in human misery.
    I refuse to believe that all Pakistanis have lost the right to be called human.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Manohar,
    is the “remote control” democratically elected? (seriously do not know if Mohan Bhagwat had to win a party election in order to become boss-man).
    Also, BJP at least holds elections to its national and state very punctually.
    Too sleepy now to be coherent. Shall revert soon on why BJP keeps losing

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    Please read my post again. I am not talking about any particular remote control. It does not matter, whether the person with the remote control is democratically elected or not, it is the existence of the remote control that is worrisome, and of course, the double standards (one is OK, the other is not) that many here demonstrate,

    Sonia Gandhi was wise, realistic or whatever enough to nominate Dr. Manmohan Singh as the Prime Minister, but she made one crucial mistake – she should have given him more political powers. That is why I do not like the present arrangement. IMO, the Prime Minister must have full political and executive powers to be really effective, like who should be in the cabinet – certainly not the Shivraj Patils and the Arjun Singhs types. They were disasters.

    BJP holding elections at the state and national levels – perhaps to insignificant posts and vacancies. Good. One never knows what goes behind the scenes – the shadow of RSS looming – it may not be so.

    All appointments to the crucial posts – President, Leaders of the Opposition, the Chief Ministers – are definitely not without the prior green signal from the orange capital of India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay Kumar, Ashish, Gopi,

    How dare you write about the congress dynasty and BJP’s inner party elections, when this congressie troll wants you to discuss only about some imaginary differences that have imaginatively cropped up between Advani and Modi? No matter, Nitish wants to flag off Advani’s Yatra, but to this troll, a war is on in the BJP.

    The congress dynasty not holding pary elections is halaal, but the BJP holding them regularly? You must be joking. It is all Nagpur propaganda. Proof? Ask the the Pakistani jihadi, he agrees with the congressie troll.The BJP elections are all insignificant, nothing to write to the ISI about.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    ~ I WILL HOLD ELECTIONS, PROVIDED U ELECT ME AS PRESIDENT ~~

    Shenoy sahaab and Manohar ji, The Congress president elections are similar to that done by Gen Zia and Muammar Gadaffi.

    Free and fair elections… as lomg as there is only one candidate and that is Rahul or Sonia !!
    ;) :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay

    I am with you on this. Show me one post of mine where I have endorsed this practice of sycophancy in the Congress Party. That is the way it is there.

    BTW, did Nitin Gadkari come though some electoral process? Perhaps,there was some secret voting in the RSS headquarters and which we are not aware of..

    Anonymous Reply:

    Vijay, Ashish and Gopi.

    The “headmaster aka bandmaster” has spoken.

    Yes, how “dare” you cross the “Shenoy rekhaa” and discuss matters with the likes of me, as he is getting left out in the intelligent debates in a civilised manner?

    AshishC Reply:

    Manohar,
    look, the only thing I am saying is BJP at least cares about appearances enough to hold elections and elect office bearers. (As an aside, when I grew up, every Bengali home would have large book-shelves full of books displayed prominently in the living room; we were told this just shows the world that while the rest of Indians displayed vulgar wealth, we displayed our erudition!). As we all know, it may not be true; but, at least the love for books had to be professed.
    Similarly, I think at least the BJP is professing the right values- but, I agree, not 100% following them.
    Congress, though has no such pretense.
    I agree with you about your basic premise that the PM must have full political authority (did you see Jaitley’s interview recently by Prasannarajan in India Today, where he pretty much asserts that BJP will never have a PM who does not have authority over both the party and the government?) But, consider this:
    1. Manmohan is a technocrat PM- he was even a technocrat FM- who needed Narsimha Rao’s political umbrella to stay secure.
    2. So, even if Sonia wanted to invest political power in him, he would not have managed it. Having power and knowing what to do with it different.
    3. Sonia of course did not want to do so, in the first place. Because if she did, the primacy that the Family has over the party will be eroded.
    The NAC is another odd thing; there is the ruling party- as always in the democracy, there is the government, there is the opposition.. but what the hell is the NAC?
    It confuses the hell out of me- as for Manmohan, who has to manage this diverse group of conflicting and demanding people, it is nightmarish.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    Agree. I could not have put it better. We are on the same wavelength, except perhaps of the appearance part – wouldn’t that be hypocrisy? baahar kuchh aur under se kuchh aur

    AshishC Reply:

    I think it is more like “fake it till you make it”.
    Let me give you an example; Nehru takes the credit for giving us strong institutions, elections every five years, 3 branches of the state and so on..
    we are still faking it; aren’t we? In the hope, that someday, collectively we shall make it.
    So, when we grew up; in a house full of books stacked from floor to roof; you like books quite naturally. Similarly, if you even follow the rituals of elections, hopefully, someday, you will become democratic.

  • Dr Mishra

    Rajeev, agree with the fact that Netaji is being forgotten. He was a very brave man who died too soon. Imagine if he and Sardar Patel had been alive for 10 years longer. Wow!!!
    But there is a medical word- multi-factorial aetiology. Meaning some processes have many factors in their genesis. Indian independence came about because of all of the following-

    Nehru, Gandhi, Congress etc
    The general awakening of people- swaabhiman
    Militancy- 1857, Netaji, nanha shahid Khudiram Bose, Azaad, INA, Bhagat Singh etc
    WW2 which left UK exhausted
    Japanese hit on Uk- fall of Singapore etc

    Thus it is difficult to say which factor was dominant. MY CONTENTION IS THAT GANDHIJI’S APPROACH SAVED US A LOT OF BLOODSHED. Otherwise Indian soldiers on Brit orders would have been killing Indian freedom fighters

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    enjoyed reading yr article rajeev- Rani of Khansi, Netaji- they are tragic Karna like characters in the mahabharat of Indian independence- got overshadowed by the Arjun of ahimsa and Gandhi. India owes them

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The history that is taught to us is pure glorification of few rather than record of true events. I still fail to understand why can’t we study Gandhi’s life objectively. The congressis are turning him into another Prophet Mohammad who can not be criticized.
    Similarly Nehru’s relation with Edwina should be studied in historical sense..so the marriage of Netaji.

    All these leaders were human and it will be great disservice to those soul if we start worshipping them blindly.

    Lastly I think Indians should be given freedom to follow leader of their choice rather than forcing Gandhi and Nehru down the throat.

    Gandhi doesn’t inspire me to the level Netaji and Bhagat Singh do. It is my personal choice to reject Gandhi.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Well,
    If people think that ICS was some thing in those days, Netaji was chosen for ICS and refused to join that. He was destined for hgher things. Can not refute MKG’s legacy but others have equally, if not more, cotributed.. Regarding MMS as a saviour along with Narsimha Rao. totally agree with his approach, but presently feel that ” Razia fans gayi Gunndan main”.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    ****, ENGLISH AND INDEPENDENCE”””””’

    Rajeev, one final comment, I am not interested in what some bloody Atlee thought of Gandhiji- to quote him as if he was the biggest authority on independence is incorrect.

    Also Gopi is right. Read ‘The rape of Nanking’- it was written by a Chinese who grew up in US. She went back to China and meticulously researched oral testimonies of survivors for years. The brutality of the **** in wanton murder and rape ( there are photos obtained from *** soldiers of bayonets stuck into the vaginas of women they raped)- will chill you.

    So Netaji may have been making a Faustian pact with the devil. Life is tragic, complex and unpredictable

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    recorded testimony of RAPE OF NANKING-
    ‘ On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. . Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. …………………..The last murders in the house were of Ha’s two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[50)
    —————————
    2.5 lakh killed over only 6 weeks, 40,000 raped, ^ John E. Woods,The Good man of Nanking, the Diaries of John Rabe, p.281
    —————————–
    Rajeev, Netaji, who I respect hugely, may have been out of his depth – between Hitler and the ****, bloodthirsty savages both

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    You are too generous in comparing Netaji to Karna.
    May be in a sense you may be OK, because this Karna had a pact with Hitler, the modern day Duryodghan. As you know he even met Mr Himmler.

    Netaji was a flash, an impatient man. His goal was great; means were suspect. He did not understand India or Indians. Mahathmaji understood India, Indians — in fact one can say it was he who pulled together modern India, until him and his movement and his criss-crossings, India was a loose loose set of princedoms, Islamic rulers, and British territories, Portuguese territory, and French territory.

    Sardar Patel is in a different class; will not equate him with Netaji.

    That does not mean Netaji was not a great freedom fighter. he was; but not the light at the top of the mountain!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    I disagree with you. In fact I find Gandhi’s role in our freedom struggle suspect. Why did british media cover him so much? Gandhi and his non-violence were tools used by brits to control Indian who they did not trust after 1857.
    Gandhi was no Mahatma..I guess you have read too much NCERT text books.

    Sardar Patel was different class and Netaji is altogether different. Both were great men who lost to cunning Gandhi and Nehru.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,
    The kind of contempt that you show for Netaji is product of constant congressi brainwashing that you got all your life.

    Did you know about Gandhi’s sexuality till it came out in open thru his letter to his jew partner?

    Gandhi was basically Drithrashtra who blindly allowed Duryodhana Nehru to usurp the kingdom called India.

    Anonymous Reply:

    “Did you know about Gandhi’s sexuality till ……..”

    Is it relevant to India’s struggle for and achieving Independence?
    If so, how? Will you care to explain?

    (I do not give damn as to what one does within the four walls of his/her bedroom)

    “Gandhi was basically Drithrashtra who blindly allowed Duryodhana Nehru to usurp the kingdom called India”.

    Usurp? Huh!

    In that case, in your book the people of India must be morons to return him to power in three general elections.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    A large number of Indians contributed in their own way for India to achieve Independence, but the major contribution was by Mahatma Gandhi, I have no doubt about that. Let us not belittle any one of them, though one may not agree with the methods employed by them.

    It seems RSS propaganda machinery is in full swing here to discredit their objects of hate.

    Anonymous Reply:

    You would have believed Atlees’s every word, had he praised Gandhi.

    Indians have no sense of history…All they like is praise and praise..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Indians have no sense of history, except RajeevS.

    Ravi Reply:

    Even he confuses fantasy with history

    Anonymous Reply:

    But, for Pakistanis, there is no confusion.
    They believe their fantasy is their history.

    Ravi Reply:

    I do not give a फ्लाईंग फ़क about what Pakistanis do.

    You are obviously obsessed by it.

    You are welcome to Pakistan and it to you.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Really funny !! U made me rock with laughter with this comment !

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shri B V Shenoy is having a field day (after two days of slumber – how peaceful this blog was) by calling others jehadis, pakistanis and whatever adjectives he can think of.

    We have really “made” his day.

    He will go to bed tonight as a very satisfied person and sleep like an “amul baby” – having done his duty for his cause and earning a few “taalis” in the process. He should remember that there is not much difference between a ‘taali’ and a ‘gaali’ – just one alphabet.

    Contributing anything substantial and intelligent is out of the question for reasons best known to him.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I am not praising **** or Germans.

    I just want to state that Gandhi was product of Hype by British who considered him a friendly enemy who was totally harmless.

    Gandhi was class hypocrite who showed his true political colors when he forced Netaji out of Congress and later in spite 13 Pradesh Congress Comm. supporting Patel as PM, he made a dictatorial decision of choosing Nehru as PM.
    The same Nehru sidelined Gandhi after 1947.

    Both Nehru and Gandhi deserved each other…

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rajeev,

    Actually, Mahatma Gandhi imposed his decision of making Nehru as PM, on India, like a dictator.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @vijayKumar, Nirad choudhuri is the person who had read the most number of books a human being can read .also he knew , german , french and latin and sanskrit by heart.
    Having said that like every human being he had few failings.
    he was BLIND to the scum Winston Churchill and he was DUPLITICIOUS on subhas bose . He called him a THUG in a BBC interview. but when it came to writing in bengali newspapers , he was effusive in his praise for his BRAVERY .
    There was two TAMARIND character who had done enough damage to bengal ,one is the malayali KARAT , other is yechuri.
    A third malayali joins that list .
    He is SHASHI THAROOR.
    This fellow gave a talk on the centenary of netaji’s birth on BBC radio.He said Netaji’s PATRIOTISM was essentially his anti british feeling which grew from the racism he suffered while in england for his ICS exam.
    This lump of shit called Tharoor should know NETAJI CAME 4th in ICS YET DECLINED THE OFFER OF SERVING THE BRITISH CROWN
    NEHRU FAILED TWICE IN THE ICS EXAM WHICH HE ASSIDUOSLY SAT.
    Tharoor is not qualified to even lick the shit of netaji

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mohan-
    kerala will become a dangerous place, a devils place; not “Gods own land”– the ingredients to make it the next Kashmir are there. Politicians who are concerned about vote banks pretend like nothing is happening. Kids have been recruited from here to fight in Kashmir. In fact the reports say that one of the guys in custody in connection with the Delhi HC bombings is a keralite Muslim – now, Muslims in kerala are not poor or not uneducated..Their educational level is close to Christians and Hindus; and they are the second richest after christians. So, if they are “dissatisfied” and want jehadism, God save other parts of India!

    The Congress govt will fall apart but for the support of the Muslim league who has 25 seats in the 133 or so seat assembly. KunjaliKuttuy, the senior Muslim league minister is the defacto CM. OOmen Chandy, the congress CM, cannot do anything without the Muslim league support.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Rupee decline, possibility of a second recession, possibility of a double dip in the US, european crisis etc require diligent action from India to minimize any possible impacts. The never ending G2 (with the open letter campaign between FM and Chidambaram), the total paralysis and crisis-to-crisis management of the country etc do not bode well when focused attention should be given to prevent negative impacts.

    The opposition jumping for the head of Chidambaram is too childish. Then they should not complaint about Diggie’s remarks about BJP – that BJP is after Chidambaram because Chidambaram mentioned about safron terror.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Also, what happens if/when US starts going after LeT/Haqquani etc now that they have given notice to Pakistanis.
    There will be an increase in cross border attacks, even the possibility of a 11/26 type. The issues are tough and complex.. we have to provide all the support to the Govt now, and vote them out (or in) in 2014 elections.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Rightly said so.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Viju

    Netaji was a patriot in his own way; Nirad may be right one time!

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay Kumar,

    A drowning person catches a straw and believes that it is a lifeboat. Nitish Kumar was invited by Nitin Gadkari to flag off Advani’s rathyatra from JP’s birthplace and much to the dismay and even shock of all the drowning people, Nitish Kumar has agreed to flag off the yatra. ONLY Times of India didn’t know about it.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    GANDHIJI’S JAIL JATRA
    Mohan Das Gandhi and his immediate entourage -the secretary mahadev desai , his wife Kasturba ,the devoted Mirabehn and his doctor Sushila Nayar were taken to different location and given SPECIAL TREATMENT.
    THE AGA KHAN’S PALACE IN POONA WAS THEIR LUXURIOUS PRISON
    At the palace , having been given a good breakfast on the train from Bombay , “with waiters , menus and all the rest”, things proved very comfortable for the prisoners.
    On arrival Mirabehn became concerned about mahatma’s diet, and went on to see the head jailor , a tall parsi called Mr Kateley.
    ‘WHAT ABOUT GOAT’S MILK’ she asked ,Bapu has had hardly anything to eat ‘
    GOATS ARE KEPT READY , Mr Kateley replied
    THREE GOATS WERE TETHERED IN THE YARD ,WAITING TO BE MILKED
    Page 156 ,I S B N 0 00 255771 1, pub HarperCollins

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Rajeev- your comment- ‘ You would have believed Atlees’s every word, had he praised Gandhi ‘ is wrong because I consider Atlee to be a nobody. The Brits were at odds with Gandhi and India so when humiliated by India/ Gandhi on the world stage, their taking some digs at Gandhi is understandable.

    More biting was the dig that the Mahatma took at them, also an example of his wit. When asked what he thought of western civilisation, he remarked smilingly, ‘It would be a good idea’

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    GANDHIJI’S HATRED TOWARDS THE BRITISH
    In a Letter `back to London , Lord Lithingow, reported that Gandhi had”told me ,the idea of any enemy defacing or damaging Westminister Abbey was INTOLERABLE TO HIM, … and he contemplated the present struggle WITH AN ENGLISH HEART”
    I(lord Lithingow) was greatly struck with the DEPTH OF REAL FEELING which,so far as i could estimate , Mr Gandhi showed during this part of conversation , HIS EMOTION AT TIMES SO MARKED AS TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO CONTINUE WITH WHAT HE WAS SAYING”
    page 120 ,I S B N 0 00 255771 , pub Harper Collins

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    So we are revising History yet again.

    One needs to look at the contribution made by the HINDU RIGHT in the freedom struggle.

    What did Hedgewar, Golwalkar and Savarkar contribute to the struggle for Freedom.

    Realising this weakness in their candidature to lead India, the RSS is beginning to encroach on Historical Congress figures.

    One would have noticed, that not only Shivaji has been press ganged into the service of the RSS, now increasingly attempt is being made to suggest that Sardar Patel, given free choice, would have been an RSS man. B.G. Tilak will be the next one to be roped into provide posthumous accreditation to the Hinduatva agenda.

    Denigrating Mahatma Gandhi has been a long standing RSS tactic.

    Ask not why the Brits and Indian Media project Ganghi’s achievements, ask why the RSS wants to diminish his achievements.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    C’mon uncle, you do end up barking at the wrong tree !! Ab RSS ki kahani purani ho gayi hai. See their work during disasters and then see what admirable social work they do.

    Just a day back you were happy with the idea of giving charity to Jamaat and LeT even though they used disasters for discriminating against religious minorities and also as an occasion for conversion of religion.

    I think you need to remember that RSS is one organisation, despite its flaws, which talks about INDIA and not about aligning with a foreign power. Shamefully in comaprison.

    —> Many Muslim organisations (not all ) talked about being subversient to the the Arabic Islam. And of Pan Islamism being more important thant the country.

    —- The COmmunist have an inferiority complex as compared to the CHInese and the global communists earlier

    —- The White man bum lickers would be willing to sell their ABC ( Ar_ _ BUM & C- – - – ) to please the gora

    Sadly a SMALL section of the Sikhs did talk about breaking India during the Khalistan movement.

    IN CONTRAST the RSS only talks about strenghtening India.

    And that is the difference.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I shall not dignify this absurdity with any meaningful response.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Because you dont have a meaningful response to this obvious truth !! :)

    Anonymous Reply:

    Quite funny. Ravi you should respond…

    Vijay has raised a pertinent issue

    Anonymous Reply:

    How else will they “attain” credibility? They have none in their stable, who stood up against the British and truly be hailed as one among thousands of freedom fighters. Not one it seems. Seriously, would like to know if there were any?

    If they had their way completely – they would also appropriate others like Gokhale, Vivekanand, Ram Mohan Roy and many more from the rest of the country – the only qualifying yardstick 1) not belonging to Mahatma Gandhi and Nehru parivars or 2) not from the minority communities.

    Sardar Patel. First it was Advani (Lauh Purush) and then Modi (ChhoTe Sardaar). Ludicrous indeed. Wonder who will be next to label himself as Mini Sardaar!

    Rewriting history (we have seen Dr. Rajaram’s manufacturing materials as per specifications set out by the RSS here in the last 24 hours or so) to suit its agenda has been going on since its inception. They must be daft to think that the rest of the population is daft like them.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Manohar-

    Why are you doing “what ifs’?
    Has RSS ever disowned Mahathma Gandhi as the father of the nation?
    They disagreed on his policies; blame him on partition (which many do). Yes, an RSS man killed Him, that does not make the RSS disowning Mahathmaji as the father of the nation.

    We all should be glad that it was a Nathuram who killed Mahathmaji, and not an Abdullah – I wonder what history would have been if it was an Abdullah – it is quite possible and highly probable that I would not be in this world to write this.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb,

    he will now ask you whether you are a Hindu in the guise of a Muslim! A while ago, for opposing him, he called Gopi Modi in disguise!!

    Anonymous Reply:

    Yes, Shoeb, I have been wanting to ask the question since 1916, but kept forgetting to do so I am really really “grateful” to BVS for reminding me, after nearly a century.

    Here goes – are you …………….. ? (TIC).

    Anonymous Reply:

    Here is a small litmus test. You should get an answer to your question.

    Let B V Shenoy, being a staunch RSS supporter, declare on this blog that he considers Mahatma Gandhi as the father of the nation.

    Ravi Reply:

    Let’s see if he does.

    He has already professed that his guru golimarkar is that father of our nation.

    Anonymous Reply:

    for you, now Gen Pasha is the father of your nation, which, we all know, jihadi!

    Ravi Reply:

    My nation is your nation, so if Gen Pasha is the father of my nation, then so is he of yours.

    You crypto facsict Sanghi saffron terrorist.

    Is the लँगोट extra tight today.

    Anonymous Reply:

    your litmus paper is going to turn neutral, because, your challenge is a no brainer, like you.I am sorry to disappoint you by saying that like millions-in fact like a billion people, I respect Mahtma Gandhi as the father of the nation. I take this opportunity to inform all my fellow bloggers here that I, as a four year old, was present when Gandhiji’s ashes (a small pinch of it as a token) were immersed in the river in my native place. .

    Anonymous Reply:

    Well done. I was not challenging you and I am not disappointed at all. I applaud you. That probably answers Shoeb’s question and is free to draw his own conclusions, as I will.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Shoeb

    Yes, you are right, if it was an Abdullah, all hell would have broken loose.

    To prevent any rumour mongering (enough trouble makers around and we know who) and creating an uncontrollable situation, after his assassination, the following announcement was made on the radio

    ” Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated in New Delhi at twenty minutes past five this afternoon. His assassin was a Hindu”.

    The slaughter had been avoided.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Hamara neta kaisa ho,
    Rahul baba jaisa ho

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    हमारा नेता वोह ही होगा
    जो बड़ी मूछ वाले का कहा माने

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi-
    As usual, you bring RSS into any discussion, denigrate a group of people; fortunately you have not painted an Armageddon of how the future will be, which you usually do.

    RajeevS had his own point for Netaji. RajeevS has consistently said he is not speaking for any religion or any group; he has castigated BJP and Modi many times.

    By you bringing in Hindu Right’s contributions or lack of contributions, you are playing with your usual game – now somebody is going to bring the treachery of Muslims, Jinnah’s original sin, the razings of Gazani, the annexures of Aurangazeb, and the terrorism of today.

    What was your reason/motivation to bring RSS/Gowalker etc into this discussion?

    RajeevS “nominated” Netaji– to some extent understandable…
    you are “denominating” people whom nobody considers as the father of nation from “the fatherhood of nation”?????
    You nominate somebody else if you think that leader is more qualified and deserving and provide the reasons and arguments as RajeevS has done.

    Denominating somebody who is nobody is like the proof of destruction of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How can one give a proof of a negative?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Shoeb

    I thought we have alreadu established that the two of us do not live in the same universe.

    I am happy where I am.

    However, a detailed response to your inane questions is provided by Manhoar as well as me.

    Look above.

    [Reply]

  • MOhanRRRR

    Rajeev,

    Very very interesting. Many people may not agree with these views
    but it is worth pondering .

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shoeb, mohan, Gopi,

    here is a good article on Modi in the Indian Express:

    http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/message-from-modi/316608.html

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    AFAIK, this article and website does not belong to the Goenka’s Indian Express group, as BVS would like us to believe, by omitting the word New.

    here is a good article on Modi in the Indian Express:

    should have been

    here is a good article on Modi in The New Indian Express:

    He has been very economical with the truth (no surprises – he is an expert at twisting sentences and names out of context).

    What should one call him? I leave it to the individual members.

    PS: If you can show solid hard evidence (I could not find any) that this New Indian Express is indeed a part of the Goenka group, I will stand corrected and will profusely apologise to you for the above. If not able toget that evicence, I will save you the embarrassment, you do not have to do anything.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Careful Ravi, lets not denigrate Veer Savarkar, Golwalkar and Hegdewar so quick- along with Gandhi and Netaji, they complete the range of Indian Independence. They also represent the anguish of the hindus and sikhs who had taken the hit of ‘foreign’ colonisers and invaders for a thousnd years.
    The congerss neglected that anguished voice, and the result was Advani, who sadly lit a fire he could not put out.
    The country neglected to hear the screams of thousands killed in bomb blasts and those expelled from Kashmir, and the result was a mutant- Col Purohit.

    Rest in peace Savarkar. Forgetting Nathuram and co, I find it fascinating that a group of Marathi brahmins had enough guts to shake the system while the brainwashed commies of Bengal proved such traitors during the independence struggle.
    Indian history- fascinating, sad, brutal

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    I beleive that we stand poles apart on this issue.

    Detailed response later.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    In fact this is what Savarkar and co were most scared of. History has proved them right-
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/259907/girl-accused-of-blasphemy-for-a-spelling-error/
    Faryal Bhatti, a Christian eighth-grader erroneously misspelt a word in an Urdu exam while answering a question on a poem written in praise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). She was thrashed.
    According to the school administration and religious leaders, the error is ‘serious’ enough to fall within the realm of blasphemy,

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    THIS IS SAVARKAR , PANDIT MISHRA’S FELLOW CASTE AND IDOL
    savarkar was member of India House and wrote many articles against British rule in India. when he was jailed for his inflammatory articles, he pleaded in writing for clemency in which he renounced revolutionary activities. he was pardoned and thereafter he never supported freedom struggle. He associated himself only with Hidutva writings upholding Brahminism, varna system and vedic ritual
    A scholar par excellence, he enriched the Marathi language and reformed it. As an ardent follower of Shivaji, Savarkar wanted to die in action. Finding this the only way out, HE WROTE SIX LETTERS TO THE BRITISH PLEADING FOR RELEASE. All his requests were rejected outright.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    THE MASK HAS SLIPPED, the pandit snake is out of the hole
    THIS IS HIS FELLOW BRAMHIN GODSE AND HOW HIS ACT WAS PERCEIVED BY REST OF INDIA.
    Execution of Godse and Apte

    Differing accounts exist about the last moments of Nathuram Godse and Narayan Apte. According to some accounts, GODSE IS SAID TO HAVE PANICKED BEFORE THE HANGING with Apte being calm.

    Violent incidents took place in Pune city, the hometown of Nathuram Godse, the assassin. Violent incidents occurred in other parts of India as well.
    Violence against Brahmins

    The Maharashtrian Brahmin community was specifically targeted after it was known that the majority of the assassins were Chitpavan Brahmins. Many innocent Brahmins had faced the problems during this assassination in the Maharashtra state.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Dr Mishra,
    I found your comment absolutely fascinating:
    Rest in peace Savarkar. Forgetting Nathuram and co, I find it fascinating that a group of Marathi brahmins had enough guts to shake the system while the brainwashed commies of Bengal proved such traitors during the independence struggle.
    Indian history- fascinating, sad, brutal

    If you can name some of those brainwashed commies of Bengal who performed traitorous acts (some details would be welcome too) during the freedom struggle, I would be grateful.
    I promise I will not bore everyone here by reproducing the “love letters” from prison written by Savarkar- as you yourself say, RIP Savarkar.
    And,
    since you mention Veer Savarkar, Golwalkar and Hegdewar in the same breath as that of Gandhi and Bose, could you care to enumerate what Hedgewar and Golwalkar have ever done for India’s freedom struggle? Your comments will be eagerly anticipated.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    My complaint against the Commies would be the ditch they gave to India in 1942, where they said that we should stop our freedom struggle and help the British in their war effort as Communists International was a bigg–gg –ger ideal…

    Ditto in 1962, when they said that the Chinese forces are coming to liberate us…. from capitalism

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Vijay,
    1942 and 1962 were different situations and different reasonings- will discuss later.
    I actually am more familiar with 1942 situation; not so much about the 1962

  • Anonymous

    Rajiv Gandhi, after massacring 4000 Sikhs and demonising Sikhs as terrorists in election posters soon after, too won a massive 440 seat victory. It is the individual in the case of Modi, but the party responsible for the pogrom against Sikhs in 1984! What a twisted logic! Only congressie trolls can dish out this kind of drivel!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is you who keeps dishing out drivel, by desperate attempts to put words in other people’s mouths and then proceeding to lambast them.

    Either your memory is short or is non-existent (looks like the latter). Show me one post of mine, where I have even remotely endorsed/overlooked Rajiv Gandhi for his in-action or praised winning 400+ seats thereafter.

    Try this with someone else, not me. Now, go take a walk and do not forget to wear your patriotism or nationalism (whatever be the flavour of the day) on your sleeve, lest the people on the road………

    BTW, you should not be talking logic, its a ‘phoren’ word in your lexicon.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    It is unbelievable you forget what you wrote just a post earlier: “Also let us forget and forgive Congress party for 1984…” Did you, due to your failing memory ‘forget (and forgive)’ to mention Rajiv Gandhi?

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Picking up a sentence out of context – that is what you specialise in for your nefarious purpose. How else will you spread lies, falsehoods and untruths as dictated by the RSS. If you have the guts, post the full statement by me (I know from where it has been taken). You may think you are too clever by half, but the rest of us know what you are. Let me see how many taalis you get from your fans and chelaas for twisting my post out of context.

    You did the same with my question to Gopi.

    I have no problem if you keep making yourself an object of ridicule, in fact, it gives the rest of us some comic relief in the midst of serious debates.

  • Anonymous

    Pankaj ji,

    a great movie, its theme tune is still a great favourite of mine. It made a star of William Holden. I still rmember the Japanese commander’s advice to the Allied prisoners, “all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy”.

    [Reply]

    Pankaj#1 Reply:

    Shenoy Sahab;
    Indeed a grat movie. I am happy that you also appreciated it. Japanese General was great here(acting and character).

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    @ Sanjay

    I think they will cut each others kites for sure. In the end Sonia mummy will launch Digviash Singh’s kite and the dor would be in the hands of Mr gaffe Prone Amul baby

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Mohan Bhagwat Syndrome by Proxy

    Arun Shourie (the BJP polemicist) when asked about Hinduatva is supposed to have said, the current RSS glitterati is modernising the concept of Hinduatva. It is shaving off all the Sarvarkar type of hard-line conservative Hindu religious meaning from it and is grafting a NEW more inclusive and nationalistic meaning instead. The brand logo remains the same, but the brand values are being made more palatable.

    So at first, a number of offensive paragraphs were disassociated from its author – Sarvarkar – so that the author can be retained but some of his poisonous views can be ditched. The RSS did just that.

    Gnadhi was no fool. Long before the independence he had realised that TRADIONAL HINDU VALUES (Caste System, Unsociability), if they remained even partially practiced in India they will hold India back. However, he was also not blind to the fact that Hinduism is the cornerstone of India. He too kept the Hindu vocabulary in tact, but bit by bit changed their meanings as well as rituals associated with them. In my view he not only hugely freed us from the Brits, he also freed us from some of the ancient religious practices. Thank you Mahatma.

    The RSS has long been trying to neutralise the Gandhi effect. This started in his lifetime and is continuing now, even here in this humble blog. Let us not forget that the RSS was in the frame for the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi. Nathu Ram Godse, had been a member of both the Hindu Mahasabha and the RSS.

    It is a universally accepted tactic, which is practiced by subversive organisations; firstly do not keep a membership register, secondly publicly distance the organisation from any over enthusiastic individual, such as Nathu Ram Godse. Privately nurture such a priceless asset, by secretly funding him shaping and encouraging him to assassinate. That is what the RSS did with Nathu Ram Godse. Not satisfied at killing Gandhi, now they want to kill his reputation too.

    The above tactic is very widely practiced by the ISI and its associates.

    My enemy’s enemy is my friend, as a tactic will take you so far and no farther. It is certainly not the kind of practice upon which a Nation can be built. Current example of this can be found in the Taliban. At first the US funded, trained, and supported the ideology, because it believed that their enemy’s enemy was their friend. Ask them the same question now and you will surely get a different response. Likewise, Subhash Chandra Bose’s tactic to befriend Germany, and Japan, against the British would NOT have won us the freedom and even if it did, it would not have laid good foundations for our Nation.

    Nostalgia is good, but neuralgia is bad. Enjoy our national heroes, and leave their reputations as they are.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ravi,

    Where did you get the info that RSS “secretly funded him, and encouraged him to assassinate” (“Him” being Nathuram Godse)?

    Although in a paragraph above this you state the truth that “Nathuram HAD BEEN a member of RSS”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    this ‘info’ is included in chaper 7 para 3 of the latest edition of the ISI manual for creating chaos, anarchy, subversion, sabotage and terror, which this jihadi is required to always quote in this blog.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi

    AFAIK, the RSS is a hydra-headed organisation (should one say monster) and most of us do not how many organisations it has spawned, what they do and on the surface may not have a direct link with the parent body. A lot of secrecy surrounds its network – we may be aware of the BJP.VHP, BD and some others. Much of the “good work” they do like helping / assisting in times of calamities (laudable in its own right) is to create a smoke screen for its sinister agenda.

    It is very difficult to establish such connections – when somebody gets caught in some misdeed – the RSS is quick to distance itself from the person(s) and the organisation(s),as they did in case of Nathuram Godse and others.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Japanese and germans LOST THE WAR , WON THE PEACE(became ECONOMIC SUPERPOWERS, WHILE BRITAIN INTERMINABLE DECLINE)

    GANDHI DID GREATEST DISSERVICE TO THE LOWER CASTES BY LUMPING THEM IN A BOX CALLED HARIJANS
    He never said anything about ABOLISHMENT OF CASTE.
    IN FACT HE WAS A FULL PAID UP MEMBER OF VARNASHRAM AND CASTE BASED SOCIETY AND ITS BIGGEST VOTARY
    This is his magnum opus
    My Varnashrama Dharma
    by Mahatma Gandhi,

    And, the gandhi who publicly announced that caste system should be
    preserved and it has scientific meaning is the man among
    hindus, who has been fradulently and clandestinly kept on the top of hindu
    system, as gandhi adored and worshiped the varnashrama to the fullest

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    Your description of Arun Shourie as the BJP polemicist is needless.
    It adds no value to your argument and straitjackets a multi-faceted personality in addition to being a learned (and this is rare), honest and courageous man.
    BTW, I am sure you have proof of RSS secretly funding, encouraging and priming Nathuram Godse to assassinate Gandhi? Care to share? Or, was it too much beer with the Sunday lunch?

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I stand by my comment.

    Arun Shourie is a good journalistic writer with an axe to grind. He lacks balance. The fact the axe he is grinding is of your liking, so you find him more acceptable than I do.

    That defines who you and I are.

    I suggest that you research about your social club yourself.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Don’t we all? Have an axe to grind, I mean?
    I see that you have not read him; read him, seriously. He does his research, is razor sharp and intellectually honest- at least to himself.
    Only an upright man would at this stage of his life, seek to gently disengage from his party.
    I assure you I do my research- so, I have a much less alarmist view of the RSS than you do even if I do not accept Hdgewar/ Golwalkar (or Savarkar- well, perhaps just a little) as freedom fighters of any significance.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    I do not doubt his intellect.

    I do not doubt that he is sharp.

    I do not doubt that though born a Hindu, his personal tragedy made him look deeply into his birth religion, not finding the answers he sought, in the end he settled for seeking solace in Buddhism.

    I have no doubt that he endorses, a religion based reactionary party with a predilection towards violent fascist ideology.

    What I doubt is his impartiality and balance.

    He is an investigative journalist by training and writes like one. His focus is writing a good story, imbued with absolute certainties and solid convictions, the hallmarks of a believer rather than a doubting and open academic.

    In the BJP team he towers above the rest who collectively are little more than dross.

    When in doubt, organise a Rath Yatra, precipitate a communal incident and frighten the electorate into voting for the RSS.

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Here is your starter for 10.

    I know how much you like Outlook.

    …..http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?205425….

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    I still think it was too much beer with the Sunday lunch; wait, have you started spiking it with whiskey on the sly? Bad boy!

    Anonymous Reply:

    “It is a universally accepted tactic, which is practiced by subversive organisations; firstly do not keep a membership register, secondly publicly distance the organisation from any over enthusiastic individual…”

    Coming from a jihadi, this has a ring of authenticity about it.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    I accept this endorsement from a Rioting Hindu Fundo

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Oh, and BTW
    since I do not spare even Gods from active scrutiny; why spare “national heroes”?
    I am not ever questioning your right to speak ill of any one; living or dead- so long as you have a credible and articulated point of view. So, I or anyone here have every right to examine Gandhi, Nehru, Bose, Patel, Azad, Tilak, Mukherjee, Sai Baba..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    But of course.

    So allow me to exercise that very right to criticise your right wing Hindu heroes.

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Ravi,
    when did I ever deny you the right?
    All I ask (and I saw Shoeb plead for elsewhere) is that you do so in context of the argument and the thread.

  • Anonymous

    All corrupt people stand on the right and all the honest people on the left, no cheating please. We have to take an “official” count to know it “unofficially”.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Vijay Kumar,

    for taking money Kalmadi went to jail
    but Amar dahla managed to get bail

    Digvinash has made certain that HM would fail
    and that PM has between his legs his tail

    In great fear Pranab Mukherji bites his nail,
    says, ‘once I lose my job, I’ll travel only by rail’

    Rajamata has let out a loud and shrill wail
    ‘How soon to my Rome may I set sail’

    For Amul Baby, she has plans to unveil
    on cue, congressies are saying, ‘hail Rahul, hail’.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Shenoy

    Hail Shenoy !! for the marvellous take on the state of affair..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Who will resign/be forced to resign first?
    Will it be Chidambaram or Pranab?
    Is Pranab creating problem for Rajmata?
    He always wanted to be the PM- that was his life’s ambition. Many may not know– He was a “young Turk” with Chandrasekhar etc during Indira’s days.
    Is this Pranab’ revenge to force something? Bring something to the doorsteps of Rajmata; MMS is forced to resign, and he being number 2 becomes the PM????? .

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Gopi,

    Does it really matter who goes first and who follows suit?
    As things stand all three, PM, FM and HM are BJP’s cannon fodder.
    But, I feel, MMS should first take the plunge,taking responsibility for ruining his own and his government’s credibility. He also owes the nation an apology for giving clean chits to Raja and now Chidambaram.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi

    “RajeevS

    Now you are becoming like all the other crazies — ………..”

    Now?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    ~~ AS CONGRESS COLLAPSES, trolls shout out “rape rape… RSS RSS !! ~~~
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    In the naked lust for power… an all consuming HAWAS for grabbing the PM’s seat a great game is being played.

    Digvinash and Gaffe Prone Sancho panza alias Amul Baba, have targetted the most able member of the UPA– P Chidambaram. His claims to the seat are over.

    Pranabda would be over soon– since he will be accused of fomenting dissent.

    Sonia Mummy will soon announce a democratic choice (COngressi style democracy ! )

    Digvinash as PM and Fagge Prone Amul Baba as Party president.

    To take the public’s eyes from this gory tamasha of hawas and lust for power, the COngressis are shouting rape rape, RSS RSS. Even on this blog one Mr Ravi who claims to be and Indian in UK, but talks like a Pakistani from Muridke has not mentioned anything about LeT, Jaish, terror attacks, etc etc.

    Yet he goes out of the way to castigate and insult the RSS which may be just an old fashioned nationalist organisation….

    Shame Shame…

    Meanwhile all Indians should think of the future and boot the dynasts out with a solid kick in the rear….

    And deport Digviash to Muridke…

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    I think Pranab will last till UPA-II lasts.. as was shown during the Anna Hazare episode, only he knows the art of real-politik.
    Pranab is unlikely to ever make PM; there was a lot of talk of his wanting to be President when RahulG becomes PM; as he did not want to be reporting to him.
    Aisa hee chalega..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ashish

    Now give me one reason why he has practically destroyed Chidambaram’s ambition of rising further…

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Ok Vijay, you and me may not give Pranabda a chance of becoming PM but the man himself may be a tad more ambitious!
    Also, when Pranab dropped some loud hints through the IToday interview (just as the UPAII came to power)about wanting to bring his “active” political career to an end after this government’s term ends, he had in mind 2 things
    1. This government will last till the end of its term
    2. The next election will bring Congress back to power and Rahul will be PM (who he did not want to have to report to)
    But, now, I think he senses
    1. UPA2 may not last its full term
    2. The next PM may not be RG; because his task will be too tough- on the governance front as well as having to carry the party to power in the next elections.
    So, Pranabda senses he is close to a lifetime ambition- and is busy eliminating rivals.

    Anonymous Reply:

    I think Pranab Mukherji has done a great DiSservicce to himself and to his party. We all respected him for being a senior statesman.

    Now he has started looking like a petty manipulater.

    AshishC Reply:

    I am not a Pranab fanboy; but, I think he handled the Hazare situation on behalf of the government well.
    And why petty manipulator? Manipulator; perhaps- though isn;t that a virtue in politics? But petty? With a PM’ship as a prize? C’mon! No manipulation is petty enough.

    Anonymous Reply:

    Ashish

    Well Pranab Babu will first sink the ship… then become the captain…

    Anonymous Reply:

    Pranab Mukherji has held a press conference in New York to tell the newsmen that he didn’t rush to meet the PM, but just casually came to say hello.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    The whole of UPA is collpasing. I dont know why they are doing this. have thye sensed that 2014 is going to be a resounding loss?

    Mr Honest, that is Manmohan Singh must be rueing the day when he appointed a CAG who has given rather spurious calculations to create huge amounts of losses.

    Though I am happy that there will be change of government now.

    Shenoy, do you think this will fall now or after the elections?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Er…. Error. Wanted to write Gaffe Prone… but wrote fagge prone..

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gopi, Mohan, Shoeb,

    Here is a sample of the arguments against Modi by one congressie troll here on this blog:

    “As he has chosen not to express any remorse and apologise for his failure to protect the lives of innocent people under his tutelage then, that is why he is stuck in Gujarat”

    By this argument, where do Jayalalithaa, Naveen Patnaik and Jyoti Basu stand?

    In 1996, the PM’s gaddi came to Chandrababu Naidu, without even his seeking it and he declined the offer, saying that he has work to do in Andhra.

    Similarly, Jyoti Basu too had PMship in his lap, but the party forbade him from taking up the post, though he himself was inclined to take up the job.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    Ashish, Vijay and others- SAVARKAR””””””’

    Veer Savarkar’s militancy is like Azaad, Bhagat Singh, nanha shahid Khudiram Bose, Netaji- it the anguish and rage of a vanquished people. In the end, in the totality of contribution towards independence, their contribution may have been mild- but they live on in the ballads sung to the braves and in my heart.
    Someone dared- khub ladi mardaani woh to Jhansi wali Rani this- I get goosebumps writring this.
    Savarkar’s apologetic letter from prison where he saw decades of incarceration, is a sensible act. No sense dying of TB in Kaala Paani. I would have done the same.

    Dont denigrate our braves, Ashish, we dont have many. Centuries of slavery has made us effete, as can be seen on this blog as well where foreign worship is an art form, for a few !!!!!!!

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    indian commie traitors”””””””

    Ashish- they let us down in 1942, 1962 and even during the Naxal phase. Worshipping a venal ‘foreign’ God. Vijay has already reprted this. In any other country, they would have been shot for treason for siding with the Chinese who grabbed our land and killed our men.

    Sadly, the spirit of the commie b*sttards lived on in JNU last year when they celebrated the massacre of the 72 policemen in Dantewada by Maoists

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Dr Mishra,
    I would just like to point out that you used the phrase “brainwashed commies of Bengal “.
    You don’t escape so easily; I see your attempting to wriggle out of a bad situation by saying Indian commie traitors.. we all know our history- explain why you said brainwashed commies of Bengal.
    As you have seen, I do not abuse. But, mindless tripe with racial overtones gets my gall. I will await your unqualified apology.

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Ashish

    Why do I have this feeling that you may have a long wait for what you really want.

    Waffle has already arrived.

    Ravi Reply:

    Dr Mishra

    You may feel such acute shortage of Heroes in India, that you are willing to promote Villains as heroes.

    I hope you do not mind if I do not join you in this revisionary clap trap.

    I can not accept Sarvarkar as a NATIONAL hero, he may be a hero to Conservative Fundamentalist Hindus, to everyone else he is a Hitler admiring crypto fascist.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Raviji

    Savarkar was fighting for a united INdia like Patel, Maulana Azad and Bhagat SIngh. Jinnah and Mulsim League were for dividing india and not so much for the freedom struggle.

    It is obvious who the hero is..

    [Reply]

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Mittal

    Of course it is.

    This would be a point if I were saying that Jinnah or the Muslim Leagues are heros.

    Now I do not remember ever saying that.

    But then again when have facts dictated what you think.

    It would really be sad if they ever did.

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Ravi

    At the worst you could say that the RSS are misguided patriots. However given that every religious faction in INdia has a political face– how can you fault the Hindus from having one?

    I think part and most of the reason for the growing support for RSS can be traced to this. The more you shout, we should vote for the COngress and insult the RSS, the more fans of RSS you create. Because the Congress has no problems with Tying up with the Muslims league yet finds fault with RSS.

    Similarly the Akalis are basically a Sikh Party, the National Conference and the PDP only project Muslims. In contrast the RSS is comparitvely and quiet liberal. It talks about India.

    Ravi Reply:

    Mr Mittal.

    Not sure if I understood your point.

    However, I will do my best to respond.

    Very happy for RSS to be a forceful face of the Hindu religion, much in the same way as the Aklai Dal and the Muslim League are representing the interests of their respective communities. Both these organisations are OPEN – as far as I know – but the RSS is secretive and much of its work is done behind closed doors and with only vetted members present.

    The problem is that the RSS is expansionist and has national ambitions. Nothing wrong with that, let them fight the elections and should they win, then happy for them to rule.

    However, that is not what they do. They create front organisations which they then control with ruthless efficiency. That corrupts the democratic process.

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    Savarkar contd- EDUCATION FOR ASHISH
    1. Why did India get ruled for so long? DISUNITY
    Savarkar’s first step was to say- Sikhs, Hindus , Jains and Budhists- all one.
    2. He had a reformist side to him too- hated the oppressive elements of caste and based his reforms on- his words- atheism, humanism, rationalism, pragmatism
    3. He may have coined the term India’s first war of Independence regarding 1857 and wrote a book on it. Madam Bhikaji Cama was his lifelong supporter.

    Ashish- you cannot measure or quantify courage. Savarkar’s story is haunting- I am glad the Airport in Andaman is named after him. Just for that I have planned one of my future scuba diving trips there and I shall definitely visit his cell.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    EDUCATON FOR SNAKE MISHRA
    THIS IS SAVARKAR , PANDIT MISHRA’S FELLOW CASTE AND IDOL
    savarkar was member of India House and wrote many articles against British rule in India. when he was jailed for his inflammatory articles, he pleaded in writing for clemency in which he renounced revolutionary activities. he was pardoned and thereafter he never supported freedom struggle. He associated himself only with Hidutva writings upholding Brahminism, varna system and vedic ritual

    [Reply]

    AshishC Reply:

    Dr Mishra,
    education never ceases for me; as amazement.
    You used Savarkar (along with Hedgewar and Golwalkar) as figures – of the Indian Freedom struggle.
    Social reformers/ organisers… okay, maybe. Care to let me have the answer to my original question- what was their contribution to the Indian Freedom Struggle?
    Also, why did you find it necessary to juxtapose the 3 “Maharashtrian brahmins” with “brainwashed commies of Bengal” while putting the said brahmins on the same pedestal as Gandhi and Bose?
    History is not mythology- or myth making.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    A GENETIC TRAIT ANALYSIS OF BJP , FIRST ABOUT ITS GRAND FATHER HINDU MAHASABHA
    The Mahasabha promoted the principles of Hindutva, a Hindu nationalist ideology developed by its pre-eminent leader Vinayak Damodar Savarkar.the Mahasabha identified India as “Hindu Rashtra” (Hindu Nation). Although it broadly supported the Indian National Congress in its efforts to attain national independence, it criticised the Congress commitment to non-violence, civil disobedience, secularism and its efforts to integrate Muslims and hold dialogue with the separatist Muslim League party, which the Mahasabha deemed to be appeasement.
    History

    Although it remained a relatively small political party, the Mahasabha’s members at various times included pre-eminent Indian political leaders such as Madan Mohan Malaviya, founder of the Benaras Hindu University; Dr. K. B. Hedgewar, founder of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the former chief minister of the Central Provinces and Berar; Syama Prasad Mookerjee of Bengal, who served as Central Minister in Nehru’s cabinet

    The BJS was started by Syama Prasad Mookerjee on 21 October 1951 at Delhi in consultation with the RSS. The symbol of the party in Indian elections was an oil-lamp. In 1952 general elections to the Parliament of India, Bharatiya Jana Sangh had won three seats; Mookerjee being one of the winning candidates

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Darney

    I still feel u have a funny name. Naming urself after a road…well in case u r darney himself, then it is different. Anyway nice background you gave of the aMahasabha

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Mittal welcome to blog, vaary addictive.
    Mishraji, you have stuck your neck out and touched on 2 controversial topics ==

    No aid to Pakistan
    Veer Savarkars heroism

    The debate is very cutting. When Shoeb said chillingly thnks God it was godse, not abdallah who killed gandhi, it touched my heart. Reminded me of Godhra.
    This is debate. Dr Shan your disguise of darnley street did not survive one day. Just slither away, u r out of depth

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @ Balwinder

    Yes … I am finding it a bit addictive…

    [Reply]

  • Ravi

    Minor Miracles Major Movements

    Today the last BULL was killed in Catalonia by a Matador, after the two put on a spectacular show of, until death Tango. The cows of Catalonia can breath a sigh of relief.

    4000 miles east two legged heifers – of an entirely different variety – have reasons of their own to rejoice. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has announced that women in his country will not only be able to vote but will also be able to stand for Municipal elections.

    These two minor miracles will create major movements in both conservative societies.

    Just shows you how very advanced we are in India.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Spain conservative?

    You should be ashamed to put Saudi Arabia as an “example” or a poster child. First of all, it does not even qualify as a fr—ng country. And what do these women do with their voting? Can they say they want another king? For petes sake they cannot even drive.

    [Reply]

  • Dr Mishra

    ASHISH, OUR FIRST CLASH- I like that. We could have been accused of running a mutual admiration club uptil now. In fact a certain frequently attacked blogger has accused us of membership of ‘internet brahmin club’.
    Now to business.

    1. I used artistic license to juxtapose 2 different groups to dramatic effect. I did say a 1000 year of slavery had made many Indians effete, so it was nice to see a group of Marathi brahmins shed their academia and take up arms.

    2. I do have contempt for the traitorous chracter of commies from India- and yes, most were bengali- who opposed 1942, 1962 and throughout the naxal phase. I did take in the modern JNU types celebrating Dantewada massacre.

    3. No where did I say that in himself Veer was as effective as the mahatma, I did include Netaji, Jhansi rani, Khudiram Bose, Azaad , Bhagat Singh- collectively in my small band of heroes who thrilled us in their own way. Scroll bak to see my comments.

    did i answer all yr questions. If so, I retire to my glass of wine and drink a toast to Veer Savarkar whose story is both tragic and heroic.

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    It also doubles my intention to plan my next annual diving trip to Andaman. I shall feel pleasure in walking thru Veer Savarkar airport and shall pay my respects to his cell where he was impriosoned for 10 years.

    Another thing- I attend gatherings of a group of Marathi doctors here in Yorkshire. They once held a poetry gathering- Veer’s poetry was recited and was translated for my benefit. My interest in his story ges back to that time- his poetry stirs your blood.

    Oh and another thing, my marathi friends told me that Veer was willing to accept hindi as a national language, despite being a marathi. He believed in it because it was the only regional language with the largest circulation.

    There is a lot you dont know about this anguished soul Ashish, our history and mythology has too many Karnas

    [Reply]

    Dr Mishra Reply:

    In AIIMS hostels, each floor has a ‘guest room’. This was used by us to accommodate our relatives who would come for treatment to AIIMS.

    Since our union leaders were very militant and had links with CPI (ML) they used to rent these guest rooms whenever the ‘cadres’ came a visiting from Bengal for rallies etc.
    Had many a late night conversation with these commies. Many were very sweet naive innocent students who would quite cheerfully tell me that when the revolution came I would be killed because of ‘annihilation of class enemies’.
    But maybe 30% were vicious thugs and brainwashed. Their heroes were Chinese and or Russians, every aspect of their thinking seemed to be directed by the orders they recd from HQ

    disturbing
    enough said

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    COL PUROHIT and Pragya Thakur ALSO RECEIVED INSTRUCTION FROM HEADQUARTERS , that is ABHINAV BHARAT

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The snake in pandit may shed its skin , but the venom is intact
    Along with his fellow students and friends Savarkar formed a political outfit called Abhinav Bharat. (source wikipedia)
    THIS IS THE SAME ABHINAV BHARAT , WHOSE ACTIVE MEMBERS ARE COL PUROHIT(BRAMHIN) NOW IN JAIL AWAITING TRIAL IN MALEGAON BLAST WHICH KILLED MUSLIMS ASSEMBLED FOR FRIDAY PRAYERS.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    The communist are NOT ONLY FROM BENGAL if we are talking about 1940
    The Communist Party of India (CPI) was founded on December 26, 1925, at an all-India conference held at Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh, in late December 1925 and early January 1926. Communists participated in the independence struggle and, as members of the
    Congress Socialist Party, became a formidable presence on the socialist wing of the Indian National Congress. They were expelled from the Congress Socialist Party in March 1940, after allegations that the communists had disrupted party activities and were intent on coopting party organizations. Indeed, by the time the communists were expelled, they had gained control over the entire Congress Socialist Party units in what were to become the southern states of Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Andhra Pradesh. Communists remained members of the Indian National Congress although their support of the British war effort after the German invasion of the Soviet Union and their nationalist policy supporting the right of religious minorities to secede from India were diametrically opposed to Congress policies.
    As of 1934, the main centres of activity of CPI were Bombay, Calcutta and Punjab. The party had also begun extending its activities to Madras. A group of Andhra and Tamil students, amongst them P. Sundarayya, were recruited to the CPI by Amir Hyder Khan.]

    In July 1937, the first Kerala unit of CPI was founded at a clandestine meeting in Calicut. Five persons were present at the meeting, E.M.S. Namboodiripad, Krishna Pillai, N.C. Sekhar, K. Damodaran and S.V. Ghate. The first four were members of the CSP in Kerala. The latter, Ghate, was a CPI Central Committee member, who had arrived from Madras.[15] Contacts between the CSP in Kerala and the CPI had begun in 1935, when P. Sundarayya (CC member of CPI, based in Madras at the time) met with EMS and Krishna Pillai. Sundarayya and Ghate visited Kerala at several times and met with the CSP leaders there. The contacts were facilitated through the national meetings of the Congress, CSP and All India Kisan Sabha.
    n early fifties young communist leadership was uniting textile workers, bank employees and unorganized sector workers to ensure mass support in north India. National leaders like S A Dange, Chandra Rajeswara Rao and P K Vasudevan Nair were encouraging them and supporting the idea despite their differences on the execution of these plans. Firebrand Communist leaders like Homi F Dazi, Guru Radha Kishan, H L Parwana, Sarjoo Pandey, Darshan Singh Canadian and Avtaar Singh Malhotra were emerging between the masses and the working class in particular. This was the first leadership of communists that was very close to the masses and people consider them champions of the cause of the workers and the poor. In Delhi, May Day ( majdoor diwas or mai diwas) was organized at Chandni Chowk Ghantaghar in such a manner that demonstrates the unity between all the factions of working classes and ignite the passion for communist movement in the northern part of India.

    Communist movement or CPI in particular emerged as a front runner after Guru Radha Kishan undertook a fast unto death for 24 days to promote the cause of textile workers in Delhi. Till than it was a public misconception that communists are the revolutionaries with arms in their hands and workers and their families were afraid to get associated with the communists but this act mobilize general public in the favor communist movement as a whole. During this period people with their families use to visit this ‘dharna sthal’ to encourage CPI cadre.

    This model of selflessness for the society benefits worked for CPI far more than expected. This trend was followed by almost all other state units of party in hindi heartland. Communist Party related trade union AITUC became a prominent force to unite the workers in textile, municipal and unorganised sectors, the first labour union in unorganised sector was also emerged in the leadership of Comrade Guru Radha Kishan during this period in Delhi’s Sadar Bazaar area. This movement of mass polarisation of workers in the favour of CPI worked effectively in Delhi and paved the way for great success of CPI in the elections in working class dominated areas in Delhi. Comrade Gangadhar Adhikari and E.M.S. Namboodiripad applauded this brigade of dynamic comrades for their selfless approach and organisational capabilities. This brigade of firebrand communists gained more prominence when Telangana Hero Chandra Rajeswara Rao raised as General Secretary of Communist Party of India
    GOEBBELS MISHRA IS SPREADING CANARD

    [Reply]

  • (Dr.) B.N. Anand

    The UPA govt. is in real turmoil. Helped by the electronic and the print media, it is just surviving. That was not expected from GOP party run govt. Everything looks to be in mess. I believe the spokespersons of congress party are just defending indensible situations. One of the spokespersons has already retired hurt after tendering a written apology to Anna Hazare. Even the congress party had not dreamt in their wildest dreams the mess that they find in. I believe the biggest blow to the UPA govt. was the moment when the CVC appointed directly by the PM of the country was made to go by an order of the apex cpourt. The PM should have taken a moral responsibility but then he also behaved like a hardened politician who is not bothered for having made a wrong judgement.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Dr darnley shan, why you copy and paste from wikipedia, entire paragraphs and try and pass it as your own.

    dr mishra may not know that commmunists of bengal were actually jailed for treason after 1962. They said it is not india china war, it is war of noble socialism against capitalism. The chinese asss lickers Dr shan, your grandfather maybe, used to put photos of mass murderer Mao on their dias st rallies.

    Donkey dr shan talking nonsense allatime. His father liked chinese lingam and SHan likes gora lingam worship.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    What is the difference between balwinder and a donkey , the donkey has a tail.
    Proven by the mindless blabber that he so IRRITATINGLY , and panditji’s **** sniffing balwinder keeps on posting.
    Your great great grandfather HELPED THE BRITISH TO CRUSH THE SEPOY MUTINY , which your pandit master uses savarkar’s reference in calling it as india’s first independence movement.
    Your COUSINS ARE THE GADDARS WHO KILLED INDIRA , WHOM THE INDIAN GOVT HAD TRUSTED TO PROTECT THE PM OF INDIA.
    imagine such people in charge of protecting the security of nuclear installations.
    YOUR BROTHER DR JAGJIT SINGH CHAUHAN , the terrorist along with all the BABBAR KHALSA TOOK ALL THE ORDERS FROM PAKISTAN TO DESTROY INDIA.
    BHOOT KEY MUH MEY RAAM NAM

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Gandhi is respected because of his so-called spiritual superiority over others. But in last few years, we have come to know dark side of his character, namely-
    1. When Kasturba was on deathbed in Agha Khan palace, Gandhi was writing romatic letters to Miraben, describing beauty of her body parts.
    2. Just recently some letters have been unearthed that show his very close relationship with his jew partner.
    3. He did not allow his son Harilal to go abroad and study law forgetting that he himself practiced law in South Africa.

    Gandhi has been turned into some mythical figure who is beyond any weakness. Why did Gandhi not mention his dark side in ‘Experiment with Truth’?

    I agree with many of his arguments but I refuse to accept him as some Mahatma or Prophet..We had enough of this prophet and avatar nonsense.

    Netaji, Patel, Gandhi, Nehru etc. all were human with both positives and negatives and should be studied objectively. It is hindu mentality that makes everyone Mahatma..That’s why we have pir fakirs, mahatma on every nukkad.

    I agree with like of Ravi that Right wingers especially from RSS played a very marginal or no role in freedom struggle except for may be Savarkar.

    The Hindu right wingers were happy to be ruled by brits who had brought down privileged muslims (under muslim rule) to their level and provided hindus opportunity to march forward. The hindu right’s aim was to keep muslim power in check and they found allies in brits.

    Lastly the role of muslims in our freedom struggle is also minimal. They just worked for creation of pakistan..and those mullahs who opposed partition, did not do it for love of India but because they thought that muslims will be divided in sub-continent thus weakening their position.

    Congress was always concerned about power. Till 1931, all congress wanted was dominion status but not complete freedom. It was only after HSRA (Bhagat Singh and Azad) demanded completer freedom, Congress too fell in line. Even before freedom congress was contesting election and ruling in many states under brit direction. Same was true for muslim league. Even today congress can not think beyond power.

    I find it very funny when terrorist minded people like Ravi use Gandhi and his ideology to tarnish hindus. The majority of muslims never ever respected Gandhi except for for few like Azad and KAG Khan. That’s the exact reason Gandhi never blackmailed muslims with any fast because he knew that they don’t care if he lived or died.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    RSS may not have played any role in freedom struggle but it is nationalistic organization who wants to keep India ONE..however their ideological counterparts in muslim community are still working on dividing India further.

    RSS and Indian Islamic groups are both dangerous to the secularism of this country but Islamic group have no competition when it comes to anti-national sentiments and activities.

    Ravi may be part of such group and that’s why you see him mourning Osama and justifying Islamic violence on one side but when cornered by some hindu right wingers, he quotes Gandhi and calls RSS all sorts of name.

    A Islamist can never truly believe in Gandhi and idea of India..He pretends to do so for vested interest.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Ravi-

    You made a statement that RSS aided and abetted Nathuram Godse in the murder of Mahathma Gandhi. Where did you get that info from? Ashish also asked for this.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Suddenly there is a lot of discussion on RSS going on here.

    KT Thomas, retd Supreme Court justice, mentioned recently that he is a church going Christian; and he does not find that in conflict with his admiration for RSS. He said he has been following them since 1979, and his regard for them only has increased with the passage of time.

    He was wondering why should any Indian find problem with an organization committed to Indias welfare, Indian civilization…

    A Chinese democracy, if it happens, will be more Confucian than Jeffersonian, freedom in Russia would look more Russian than free. So, also the Indian ethos.

    RSS cannot be faulted if they believe that that the virtue of freedom is not that it makes you richer and more powerful but that it give you more time to understand what it means to be alive. Israeli Jews concept of freedom is also similarly different. Life’s, deaths’, invasions’ crucibles form ones own unique perspectives of freedom and how that freedom should be lived.

    “Cultivate your garden” — that is what Voltaire recommended.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Sanjay,
    I questioned Dr Mishra on a specific and limited point; that being Bengali communists role in 1942. I have never (even in college) had any fascination for the communists’ economic ideology.
    I am, as I had specifically said, not very familiar with the events in 1962; but, my facts are right on 1942.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Mohan,
    you are too generous. But, thank you.

    [Reply]

  • AshishC

    Balwinder,
    I think you need to understand there are shades of Communists- literally hundreds. Communism is not a monolith- it has many adherents and of many hues.
    Far be it from me to justify the Naxal killings, or the Maoist violence.
    Also history is very fascinating- if you recall, S A Dange was a “nationalist” in 1962 and ended up supporting and justifying the emergency in 1975- a stigma that the CPI has never quite recovered from.
    Kabhi dilli aao, gal kita.. vadi kahaniya ai

    [Reply]

  • Fact

    Saint Chidambaram by devotee Sujatha Anandan, who cares what devils like Anna Hazare, Baba Ramdev, the BJP, Subramaniam Swamy, the elderly and helpless beaten at midnight, et al may say. Many don’t share Anandan’s gushing hero worship of her shining knight. They could be excused for having a poor opinion of her darling in light of the facts.

    [Reply]

  • richie

    No better than conspiracy theories around 9/11 claiming that Americans killed themselves for control over oil fields.

    [Reply]

  • GK

    If u are right, the saffron culprits should be in jail… and so should PC… I dont know the purpose of writing such a big article… grow up! there is a world beyond hindu-muslim issues :D

    [Reply]

  • Aparakh

    Pathetic apologist for a overrated Bollywood actor, he broke the law and I hope he gets duly punished, ( not very likely as there are plenty of hired bloggers like this one to defend him.)

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    So when are they going to punish Bal Thakrey who sent goons for destroying the pitch ? looks like they only bully people who tolerate it.

    [Reply]

  • Kris, chennai

    Excellent article. Well done for taking the time to clear some of the misconception. All the media wants to do is go for controversy, not look for facts. Any human being would have done the same to protect himself and the kids, against these goons, who abuse south indians and biharis, and make them feel outsiders in their own country.

    [Reply]

  • Asha Sinha

    Well done to Shahrukh for standing his ground. He did the right thing.

    [Reply]

  • Javed

    Sujata Anadam
    what blatantly biased piece !! absolutely dumb bjp bashing and unbelievable conspiracy logic.
    you write like this for free or charge money? And and you must be turning over this pretty quick, as you only have to precede your bizarre points with “my sources in this say … my sources in that say …”, who is to verify

    at least have some finesse in your writing – i think my first time editorial would roughly be of same quality of writing (better contents though)

    so reading this was a waste of time – it is amateurish trash.

    it is true you were brought kicking and screaming into writing these blogs, your writing reflects that. and you should be sent out the same way.

    [Reply]

  • KMR Overseas

    Sujatha, this is another **** story. Bluff !! LOL

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/IluvIndia18 Amit

    Why give benifit of doubt when we have audio and video footage nail the culprit. Be it SRK or cop. Also, I would like to know the name of the cop who is so brave to go against congress, I mean SRK.

    [Reply]

  • Gyan

    Mumbai Police is the worst in India. Scrap them all. I would suggest 10 years van on Wankhede stadium for any national or international matches. MCA is a bunch of filthy lices should let dry off.

    [Reply]

  • Aam Aadmi

    Sujathas version is very contradictory & misleading Could be a paid one. I am not in favour of Such a Confrontation !!
    but the bad behaviour is a bad behaviour as it has appeared on videos cannot be denied and a suitable warning & punishment is a must
    especially to one who had started considering & louding himserlf as God of the entertainment industry.At the same time,
    I strongly appeal to all Indians & media not to analyse this incidence on any religious or political bases interests & motives . It is just a human Behaviour not always predictable !!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    What about Thakreys bad behaviour ? why didn’t MCA punished him after the digging of pitch by Shiv Seiniks ? looks like they just bully people who tolerate it.

    [Reply]

  • Sumit Bose

    It is common knowledge that the the ex-Italian maid , who now happens to be named by an European Luxury magazine as the 4 richest politician of the world after King of Saudi Arabia, Sultan of Brunei and Michael Bloomberg (his wealth is not as a result of plundering the national treasury, but from inheritance and enterprise), can afford to “mantain” legions of “dalals” from the print and electronic media; i cannot imagine that SRK can have his own set of ‘dalals”. Because, dalals just dont come too cheap. But this article proves my hunch wrong.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    And you know it all ? where did you get this information ? in your wet dreams ? because in real world you will be called crazy.

    [Reply]

    Sumit Bose Reply:

    @truthhurts, looks like you find it difficult to digest that our beloved Italian ex-maid is the 4th richest politician , well Business Insider does not . So, its time for you to bang some more money out for barking on her behalf.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    So when are they going to punish Bal Thakrey who sent goons for destroying the pitch ? looks like they only bully people who tolerate it.

    [Reply]

    RajX Reply:

    Good question. He should be locked up but he is too powerful.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Shahrukh may be going through mid life crisis but MCA is also not clean in this, they only bully people who tolerate it, tell me when did MCA take any action against Bal Thakrey who sent the goons for destroying the pitch ?

    [Reply]

    Lines Flight Reply:

    While accepting the fact that the MCA are no angels, I find it difficult to accept your line of reasoning. You need to take note of the fact that the independence of the MCA is severely limited by the BCCI. So, even if the MCA takes action, the BCCI can overrule that action. Now, the interesting thing is that SRK is very close to the BCCI (and the IPL). In fact, it is alleged that SRK played a crucial role in the BCCI and Sahara sponsorship issue. He is said to have also played a role in getting the Pune Warriors into the IPL. If the BCCI supports the MCA, it would signal that SRK’s value in the BCCI-IPL circles is dminishing. But the real question is this – will the BCCI intentionally hurt one of its assets (SRK)? Whatever may be SRK’s problems, there is no denying the fact that his remains a commercially viable brand – may not be as good as what it was before, but still viable.

    But still the MCA bans SRK! Why?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    MCA only bully people who tolerate it, they rough up small kids, tell me when are they going to take any action against Bal Thakrey who dug the pitch on same ground ?

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    See the speed with which RSS Nazis doing propaganda against Shahrukh.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.youbihar.com/ Shalu Sharma

    Shah Rukh Khan does not deserve a second chance. The trouble is that money and fame gets to the head. Unless you kick their ego down to the floor, these super heroes will not lean.

    [Reply]

  • Karwaanshul

    Just see this pic…SRK is right..

    [Reply]

  • Siddharth Pradhan

    For once she hasn’t spoken about some random Sharad Pawar experience of hers like in the past n number of articles.

    Sujata, If you read this (and I hope you do !)
    As a journalist you are “expected” to be unbiased – which I know is very difficult; but the least you can do is to not keep trashing one party only ! The “hate” towards the Shiv Sena (which I understand as a Mumbaikar), and towards the BJP (which is always over the top) from you is always very distinct in your blog posts.

    Also, your insistence of intentionally using “Bombay” in place of Mumbai just shows your lack of respect for maharashtrians’ of the city. (Yes, I know Mumbai is a cosmopolitan city, as Kripashankar Singh and Narendra Kumar of the Congress and NCP will tell you), but you simply seem to be stubborn about your views.

    I am as supportive of Indians coming from all parts of the country to look for jobs in Mumbai / Maharashtra; but no matter what – You got to respect the local feelings & local culture.

    You are a good writer, but unfortunately you use this medium to only profess your views & thoughts of one party against the other (And never to my knowledge have you truly spoken against the Congress). In that case, how does that make you different from Balasaheb Thakrey or the Saamna ??

    Maharashtra has been systemically ruined by the Deshmukhs, Rane’s, Shindes, Thakreys, and Chavans (barring the good man Prithviraj Chavan). I know for a fact you will agree with me on this.

    [Reply]

  • Geeta

    So, now Omar Abdullah should be setting National Party – BJP strategy?
    Sheikh Abdullah–>Farooq–>And now Omar. What has he done to deserve CM of J&K?
    “Normal” parties around world always have dissent- if there are no detractors, then what is the need for “party”?
    Yes, Congress has a dynastic “leader” and if you mean “discipline” equals silencing opposing point of view, then you are disgracing Indian Democracy.

    [Reply]

  • praveen kumar sethi

    It’s all vote bank policy.Mulayam singh doesn’t want to miss any opportunity to appease his muslim voters.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.3mik.com/ sanjeev j

    Cycling is clouded by doping these days as 100 meter race was suffering from Drug offenders in 1980’s. Not only lance but every top cycling star is under doping controversy and it is not good for game as spectators will loose interest. Cycling needs a new star as federer is for tennis.

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/onsanjana Sanjana S

    I woke up early this morning. At 3am. Couldn’t sleep so I turned to my iPad for comfort. Tried to watch some shows, but, fortuitously enough, none of the links were working. So I decided to read one of the iBooks in my collection. Great Expectations.
    That poor wretched boy, born into that wretched life, so confused, so scared and so hungry all the time… that poor prisoner who escaped into the freezing cold, with chains on his legs and dressed in rags with nothing to keep him warm, no food nor drink…
    When it turned light, I looked outside to a beautiful wintry morning sky, able to appreciate its beauty cos I was warm, inside an insulated house, cocooned in a blanket and a cup of hot tea in my hand. Counting my blessings came easy today. :)

    Hope you feel better.

    [Reply]

    Kushal Reply:

    Oh, this is just one of those futility of life phases that I go through every now and then, Sanjana. I’m sure I’ll get over it, but in the meantime, I’m wallowing.

    [Reply]

    Sanjana S Reply:

    Chocolate helps! The darker, the better! :)

    [Reply]

  • Kushal

    I’m sorry, I don’t know what you mean, Ramesh. Is there are problem with quoting Shakespeare?

    [Reply]

    Ramesh Kumar Reply:

    I have no problem of Great Shakespeare being quoted.All i had asked was in what phase ,do you find yourself.
    The state of mind depends on the attitude of a individual. With your permission i will quote Dr.Viktor Frankel,” every thing can be taken away from a man,except his attitude.”
    The kind of state you have mentioned in your blog is brought by a person herself.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/kanikadhupar Kanika Dhupar

    I am becoming this person who is not affected with murder, rapes, kidnappings etc. We wait for murders to our page 1 now, so yes, journalism makes you cynical (and emotionless). As for Indian men, they have some serious anger management issues and they are the reason behind most of our page-ones. The big-bloated ego’s are good-for-nothing.

    I sum how wonder, am I doing any good by editing all this **** each day or just getting more cynical each day?

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/kanikadhupar Kanika Dhupar

    Hahahha, you are funny, Buuny :P

    PS: You have taken to technology like a fish takes to water (hint hint: Fb alerts (;)

    [Reply]

  • http://twitter.com/SankarParu Parvathy Sankar

    After buying a couple of unreadable books from bookshops in a hurry, just based on blurb and cover without reading some pages, I wish we could randomly open a page of the book and read when buying online. On the other hand I did not have the reviews at my finger tips.

    [Reply]

  • masha

    Loads of them online, Kushal.. One just has to google the name of the book along with .pdf or .epub (depending on the format you require). There are so many file-sharing sites available.. Newly launched books are usually available 2-3 days after the launch date. .

    [Reply]

  • vinta nanda

    A point I would like to add in your observations is that we also have to take into account the audience to which most explicit sexual innuendo is targeted to. How discerning are those people to whom most popular Indian Cinema is reaching out to, how they perceive attitudes of men and of women in item numbers and which way do they react to the lyrics and the visuals of the songs you are talking about? Basically in which way does it all reflect in their behaviors in general life.

    [Reply]

  • Deepti

    wow.. Sanghvi wants to be in the limelight by asking people to boycott honey singh… y?? because this so called track was an underground song back in 2003.. and not a public release..??

    its just a measure of people taking their stupidity to new heights .. if you see the pettitioners profile on causes you will c she is happily posing in the recent Delhi protests with a friend.. thats how bothered she is with women emancipation…

    Honey Singh is a performer.. lyrics might be atrocious.. but it came from a 20 year old at the time.. n we all know how 20 year olds behave n swear..

    get a life and do something contructive Mr Sanghvi.. like taking a pro-govt stand as seems to be the official policy of the tabloid tr@sh competitor to ToI

    [Reply]

    Desi Canadian Reply:

    are you for real?? I don’t know any 20 year olds who use this type of language. have you even heard the songs? if you can justify these lyrics you probably think that that poor girl on the bus deserved it too. shame on you. your comments seem to be targeted at the tabloid but you picked the wrong topic to take out your anger. it’s about time you grew up a little.

    [Reply]

    Javed Reply:

    lagta hain tu kabhi jawaan hua hi nahi ae uncle

    you must have spend your whole life only with geriatrics. anyways dumba88 here is something for you to ponder

    you say you dont think young ppl are capable of such filthy lyrics just because in your pathetic existence you havent come across anyone like that? well i say read news more carefully – the juvenile was in the forefront and far ahead of other adult criminals while commiting this most heinous crime

    a 20 yr old penning these lewd lyrics is a picnic in comparison. it pretty universal

    [Reply]

    Rue Reply:

    May be you don’t understand punjabi very well. Or may be you’re just dumb! Have you listened to his lyrics?!! oh or may be, you just like those things DONE TO YOU!!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    When a Punjabi talks….looks like saying Jokes or lewd….
    So it is not their fault…..
    When they call a persons name…miss first alphabet….

    [Reply]

    name1 Reply:

    Ridiculous! if u like those songs. They are insulting n outright derogatory. I read the lyrics when all this hullabaloo started and I cud nt understand how have ppl not reacted against these yet.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Bhajan ….man …best…Kabirdas!….yr salvation

    [Reply]

    Alok Desai Reply:

    20 year old is not young. He was old enough to be sane. Such attitude are for life. Get a life girl.
    Can’t expect such views from a woman atleast. We don’t need such “peformers”

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Two ways …either castrate all….no population problem solved plus this
    OR compulsary marriage at 16 yrs of age….but then population problem

    [Reply]

    Natasha Reply:

    Seriously, the ol’ good for nothing fellows are just trying to get the publicity by pointing the gun at Honey Singh. Honey Singh is India’s best rapper and he will be more popular after this incident.

    [Reply]

  • LK

    Vir – you have explained why Honey must face the music..fine…but can you tell us why u should not face the music on Nira Radia calls? your brother Rahul baccha and your step mom Sonia have done nothing in last 10-15 days so you may want to talk to Nira and make a conference call with them. After all everyone knows that you are a CON-gressi

    [Reply]

    Rue Reply:

    are you high on weed or something?!?!?! how can you even compare the two issues! SMH

    [Reply]

    Har Gobind Bhukkal Reply:

    Very well said. Honey singh is r aping music and Vir Sanghvi is r aping our democracy. Both of them should face music for their respective crimes. Infact all the Queen maino’s gang should face the music for loot and plunder of our democracy and the people of India are left to face the music ultimately.

    [Reply]

    aam aadmi Reply:

    this man is paid bjp wala.I’m following his comments for last few weeks. His dirty mind is full of political shit.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Have you tried political shit?….same taste?
    You call yr self Aam? and Aami too.
    seek others opinion

  • Rue

    I’m SO glad you wrote about this, Vir. I’m with you about sexual references in popular culture. I came across the song in question some 3-4 years ago on youtube when he was still a nobody (he still is a nobody to me). I was shocked and appalled and could not believe my ears when i listened to the lyrics (they are BAD. specially if you understand the crude punjabi he uses in it). Then like 2 years ago, he became this famous punjabi rapper and all that and people went crazy on him. I was like WTH, do people not know about ‘those’ songs? How can anyone in their right mind be a ‘fan’ of his music. I refused to go to his concerts in Melbourne. And I bagged my friends who listened to his music for their bad taste. I’m SO SO SO happy that his songs’ lyrics have been brought into spotlight. I just hope he doesn’t try to cash-in on his notoriety now. Those lyrics should hound him for the rest of his life! Period.

    [Reply]

    Javed Reply:

    Even your friends don’t agree with you and do not see things the way you want to force everyone
    Why should we listen to your bakwaas?

    [Reply]

    alok desai Reply:

    So you think that the “rapist” lyrics he wrote are good for the society?

    [Reply]

    TRUE.HUMAN Reply:

    Man, can a song change the society? I mean, do u want to say that had honey singh not sang the songs, there won’t hav been any rape cases in India? Did Honey Singh exist during Draupadi time? Man, I respect women and I respect music too. Can’t you take it in musical point of view?

    Alok desai Reply:

    A song reaches lakhs of ears and can affect thousands of curious young minds who may find this ‘cool’. So it does matter. I am an aspiring musician and I respect music.
    But every single such thing matters and you never know whom or how many it mite affect.

    Javed Reply:

    shows us some evidence that they caused harm. then we wont protest like sissies with candles in hand. we shall file a criminal case – something concrete

    but show us some evidence. else your emotive drivel is just hot air. It is not taking this fight against crime forward – at best it is a fruitless distraction

  • Suren singh Sahni

    How many politicians and police and their children are rapists and murderers VS you are barking at the wrong tree. What deterrence is in the streets when girls and women are humiliated daily

    [Reply]

  • Javed

    Of all the serious issues you have chosen to flag this softy issue. You are so lazy Mr columnist. leave honey Singh in peace and write something substantial to make us think. Not this fluffy drivel
    There are so many logical flaws with your struggling make believe arguments. What if honey Singh says in court he did not pen lyrics? Or he says the song is not written for women but on female mannequins? He will either not end up in court or acquitted. And then what will say about the damage to the cause when this poster boy target of feminist Ire walks free respectfully. Goes back to his fans even more well known. Tera to ch00tiya katt jaayega na!

    [Reply]

    Animal Reply:

    dats wot I am professing from so many days !!! U penned it well,man !!!

    [Reply]

    Rohit Reply:

    awesome comment.. instead of blaming the culture of daarubaazi that prevails in north india and punjab in particular these elitist and drunkards themselves are blaming a singer.. Please stop this.. we dont need your advice as you dont need our advice on banning sunny leone an adult star on prime time in India.. how away from reality these JNU fed columunists can become..

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    tell him…when aroused
    Apna haath Jagnath

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Tera to ch00tiya katt jaayega na! which school teacher you had…male? 2002 me Modi ke log kiye…kaat di…Baccho ko naize par uchhala…..Shaitan envied…he could not do better…

    Forget lyrics…first find these Detyas

    Bhajan soona kar …sala kab marega aur kide khayene

    [Reply]

  • name1

    hw is it possible that for years he sells his videos under his names n when an FIR gets registered on his name he says that he never wrote these songs. It is like Vishal Dadlani saying he never composed the music of Om Shanti Om even though it got sold under his name.

    [Reply]

    Javed Reply:

    dont you read – he didnt sell those. the production company is responsible legally

    anyways since there is no evidence whethere he penned it or not and given it is an old video ignored even then – legally the case against him will fall flat

    Viv’s point is right – as a journalist Sanghvi must abide by facts. Whether Honey singh really penned them or not – we dont know? But he is denying them now – is a fact

    [Reply]

  • http://www.alokdesai.in/ Alok Desai

    Rightly said!

    [Reply]

  • Pradeep

    He should come out publicly and apologize for what he has done so far and promise that he will try to be a role model for all the young adults. Let him do that and I will not have issues with him; thats my personal opinion though.

    [Reply]

    Rphit Reply:

    why dont you ask for an apology from the sunny the leone… why only honey singh who has more female fans than you can as fb friends :)

    [Reply]

    Javed Reply:

    I am sure he is not stupid to get dragged into what is already controversy. But you sir are certainly stupid. Of all the useful things you can demand from the govt for better policing, judicial reforms etc see what you have demanded

    no wonder such ghastly crimes happen and no fear of law

    [Reply]

  • Rakesh Kadian

    I never had this hotel in high esteem anyway. But now I have decided to boycott it as my single small step for a better society.

    [Reply]

    Javed Reply:

    I shall custom this hotel it it provides value for money. As regards better society I already contribute in a concrete way & dont believe token gestures do any good

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Brothel connection in hotel?

    [Reply]

  • Rohit

    I cant believe that Honey Singh is being made the scapegoat by a society that welcomed sunny leone as is she is the reincarnation of mother teressa.. That song is 6 years old and no one needs to take action against him now.. Its the songs like CHIKNI.. ya CHIKNI chameli, HALKAT jawani, o la la oo la laa that needs to be banned not Honey Singh alone… The feminists and men apologists who are blaming a rising star again.. Punjabi singers are just plain jealous of him .. MIka singh is singing DUNIYA MERE IS PE etc… Sunny Leone is entertaining people through Jism – 2 and you are blaming this awesome singer… I would say his songs Gabru is an awesome song.. HONEY SINGH all the way…

    [Reply]

  • Dev

    Mr Sanghivi can you highlight the awful TV serial PHIR SUBHA HOGI its notorious portraying woman Dev from Toronto

    [Reply]

  • DR, Toronto

    Dear Friend,

    Before you discuss anything this intellectual says. Please have a look the following link.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?268066

    After reading this you will find that you are wasting your time, discussing about what he says. These intellectuals are paid journalist without any ethics.

    And it is shame that media like HT is giving these people still space to carry on.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Heard about Kaljug in Canada?….they dont care what they see at swimming pool…..
    Western europe….porno for all but no rape still….it is dirty mind!!!

    [Reply]

  • Ashok

    I believe you guys are wasting your time by paying attention to this paid journalist. If you do not believe me. Please have a look at bellow link.

    http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?268066

    I am not sure if you will see my post as I believe HT is also doing censorship on post as my last post did not get published. Anyway I believe I will keep on trying as we believe in India, we have freedom of expression.

    As long as people like Lalu (politics) Azhar (Cricket) and Vir, Prabhu Chawla are there in their respective fields, India can not be on right track.

    [Reply]

  • sky mikon

    I will not buy any Honey Singh Music nor will I even download any MP3 or music in any form of his……………..

    [Reply]

  • Prakash

    Vir, covert action against who? Pakistan military? Isn’t that a war?

    [Reply]

  • koushikgrs

    whenever thereis a fight between 2 children in the class they may beat each other, but they will never go ask their parent’s permission for retaliation this is
    simple ,let our goverment not complicate matters when pakistan has dared to
    kill our fouji naujawan , we shall not keep quite no waiting,,let’s not think of consquence,it is this conquence that is creating fear in our leader’s mind not
    prompting for action, enough is enough Pakistan should be taught a bloody
    lesson of their life.

    [Reply]

  • Sameer

    Pigs deserves only shit…not fruits.. they never understand the value of our big heart.

    [Reply]

  • Mr. India

    Take out Hafiz, things will change on the ground soon.

    [Reply]

  • Pakorachai

    Well said….I shall come and f**k your mother. No “badla” ofcourse because it will take you to barbaadi.

    [Reply]

    Shakir Reply:

    tumhari mah ko choda ha pakistanion ny?

    [Reply]

  • Raj

    Vir, Did Nira Radia dictate this story?

    [Reply]

  • johnD

    corrupt, discredited journos taking the easiest path to redeem themselves, “patriotism”, demonizing a fictional ‘enemy’ and war mongering!

    [Reply]

  • jagsharma

    Stop all trade with Pak and close the Bagga Border. No more cricket matches with Pak.

    [Reply]

  • Bharat

    Good analysis, Mr. Sanghvi. It is so sad that no humiliation, no matter how severe, stirs our leaders. Even the public would protest for a few days and then get back to focusing on their own interests. Nationalistic fervor is all but dead..woh kehtey hain na..”khoon paani ho gaya hai”. You are absolutely right about them only huffing and puffing..it is really very sad and unfortunate. Some of the comments (here) on using Gandhian approach are the most ridiculous ..they have their heads stuck in sand for the past 6 decades. How many eyes do they have to sacrifice before they become totally blind..more than two? ..there was the parliament attack, several bombings in cities, attack on Akshardhaam, 26/11, and on and on… Kab tak saho ge?

    [Reply]

  • Amit

    It was an epic failure of India to let Pakistan acquire nuclear weapons. It could have stopped it by hook and crook. I believe the fault lies with so called foreign policy experts. And now that we have been caught between the rock and hard place, we are still playing a defensive game. What is needed is a policy to further break up Pakistan. Obviously it is a country which is created on Hindu hate instead of other factors like nationalism that is common with other countries. So it will be foolish to expect a change in attitude of people from across the border.

    [Reply]

  • raina

    This all started in 1989 when 10 lakh kashmiri Hindus were forced to flee the valley their homes burnt so that they can not come back spine less Indian Govt and Indian Army watched and did nothing India will pay a heavy price for this mistake at that time it was ISI strategy

    1 make kashmir 100% Muslim area
    2 Bring terror to streets of India from Kashmir
    3 bleed India to death till it diintegrates

    India has been lucky because of 9/11 USA and Nato landed in Afghnistan this kept ISI and Pak army busy now USA is withdrawing means attntion will be on Kashmir now
    we Indians ( hindus) are weak and clumsy pakistan is ruthless as a nation they will definitley hurt and bleed India

    [Reply]

    AK Reply:

    Who is winner and who is loser? Compare the two countries. India is rich and Pak is broke. One billion people’s outrage is a constant stressful pressure on entire Pak leadership. I strongly support India’s maturity in foreign policy. It shows tolerance, patience, humbleness and forgiveness.

    [Reply]

  • raina

    This all started in 1989 when 10 lakh kashmiri Hindus were forced to flee the valley their homes burnt so that they can not come back spine less Indian Govt and Indian Army watched and did nothing India will pay a heavy price for this mistake at that time it was ISI strategy

    1 make kashmir 100% Muslim area
    2 Bring terror to streets of India from Kashmir
    3 bleed India to death till it diintegrates

    India has been lucky because of 9/11 USA and Nato landed in Afghnistan this kept ISI and Pak army busy now USA is withdrawing means attntion will be on Kashmir now
    we Indians ( hindus) are weak and clumsy pakistan is ruthless as a nation they will definitley hurt and bleed India

    [Reply]

  • anil

    This is first time Vir Singvi wrote something that makes some sense.

    [Reply]

  • Shakir

    tumhari gand man itna dam hai to kar k dikhao bharwoo

    [Reply]

    Arjun Reply:

    India acted once in 1971 and diveded you in to two it is time for India to act again Balochistan and Khybar pakhtoon are fighting for freedom India will free them

    [Reply]

    Shakir Reply:

    here u have accepted what indian govt is denying since 1971. u must also accept that indian have killed thousands of innocent people in kashmir and inside india

    [Reply]

  • Shamir

    What an immature article , jingoistic to its roots to say the least . In this recent border incident it was first india who killed a pakistani soldier and remember sanghvi, india is not USA

    [Reply]

  • Shakir

    tum us wqt ka intazar karo jab taliban aa jaengy tumhari marny

    [Reply]

    Arjun Reply:

    hello Moran your father osma was k,i,l,led like a dog and thrown into the sea you have not learned any thing yet

    [Reply]

  • Joey15

    Well said. Thank you for writing this article. What we need is not full scale war but retaliation enough to take out the terrorists hiding withing Pakistan territory. That will silence them enough. Or so called leaders need to see the movie ‘Munich’ and take a lesson.

    [Reply]

  • prem

    India “ please help Pakistan to /Destroy or kill it self ! you will save a newly born Baby to survive ? please stop the suffering innocent people of Pakistan. The people of Pakistan today are blood thirsty murders.

    [Reply]

  • nisant

    i remember making a comment when first this new broke out that india is going to act all angry and then that’ll be it, and as you can see nothing happaned…typical indian. btw, i am an indian.

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ajil-Philip/1366882224 Ajil Philip

    How bout India send its own drones over the border, drop some ordinance and keep quiet about it…. They’ll think its American drones and not bother….

    [Reply]

  • Ramesh Kumar

    ONLY FULL SCALE WAR CAN ENSURE LONG TERM PEACE.EUROPE HAS NOT GONE ON WAR SINCE 1945.DONOT ALLOW INDIANS TO BE HUMILIATED BY KAYANIS OR HAFIJS ETC.HOW MANY HEADS MUST BE CUT BEFORE INDIAN GOVT REALIZES THEY ARE OUR BOYS.HOW JUMPY WAS SALMAN KHURSHID WHEN HIS WIFE WAS CHARGED WITH SOME CORRUPTION CHARGES BY KEJRIWAL.IT WAS ONLY A CORRUPTION CHARGE.

    [Reply]

  • Manik

    Wow and this is call a journalism. But will India. Govt. listen as they do not have a balls and when you have mafia and criminals in control of a country, the people will play a price. It’s a shame to be an Indian since indeed we have become a banana republic.

    [Reply]

  • Jai-Hanuman

    This is India and Indian.
    Focus of the Month is India-Pak relation. Delhi incidence was last month’s episode and people have forgotten that and moved on.
    Just wondering what would be the enext month’s food for thought.

    [Reply]

  • AK

    The answer offered by many hawks on the Indian side – that we should impose sanctions on Pakistan – is counter-productive. If we stop people-to-people contacts, stop issuing visas, curtail the dialogue process, and reduce our engagement with the civilian establishment, it will make no difference to the Pakistani army. They have no respect for the politicians and the civilians anyway and they don’t give a damn what India does to them……………………..

    So why is it counter-productive? We as Indians shouldn’t care of what **** millitary thinks, we should stop watching movies with **** singers/actors and stop watching cricket matches

    [Reply]

  • Jack

    India is run by sonia behanji, manmohan Pappu and other jokers
    What action you can expect from them

    [Reply]

  • Avik Roy

    I think Indian politicians including MEA do realize that covert operation is the call of the day, however, they just do not have the necessary resolve to act. We have been seeing this aggressive Pakistani stance since last 60 years, despite Bangladesh. Though once upon a time India did operate bravely and cut that nation into two, it seems so unreal now.
    Vir Sangvi is absolutely right about our leadership. However, how we can get rid of these inactive and brainless lot that will be replaced by a more proactive ones is a million dollar question today.

    [Reply]

  • Avik Roy

    Unfortunately, most of our ‘leaders’ do not even know how to use a laptop properly. They do not know and not care about these web based discussions. Same applies to their secretaries. There is a huge gap between the private citizens that are web savvy and our politico-secretary nexus that are as web ignorant as the temple monkeys are.

    [Reply]

  • Guest

    One has never fully believed the fairy tale thàt India’s covert capabilities in Pakistan were degraded by I. K. Gujral in a fit of Punjabi large heartedness and that these have not been rebuilt and strengthened in light of so much that has happened in the world since then. Just yesterday a lot of bombs have gone off. If either the first or the second theories in the column is correct, General Kayani should pick up the phone and speak to his Indian counterpart and express regret, not for the killing, which is an act of war that both sides indulge in, but for the beheading, which shames and stains the uniform of a professional soldier.

    [Reply]

  • Peter

    Vir, the fatass, when did you get time to write something against the madam and her PM. Didn’t get your cut this month??

    [Reply]

  • Singh

    Only Hari Singh Nalwa and Ranjit Singh can kick their a**…….these dhotiwalas have no balls……..Hari Singh conquered Kabul and Ranjit Singh had Lahore as his capital and Jagjit Singh Arora kicked their a** and created Bangladesh…….

    [Reply]

  • singh

    O Gandhi Kay chalay……go and preach this to pakis…..

    [Reply]

  • Raja

    For a butcher class it makes no difference to behead a human or an animal. It took forever to hang 26/11 culprit. That is the state of our country and its politicians who are weak and are only concerned about their “ghotals” and political seat.What will it take for this impotent government to wake up

    [Reply]

  • Raja

    For a butcher class it makes no difference to behead a human or an animal. It took forever to hang 26/11 culprit. That is the state of our country and its politicians who are weak and are only concerned about their “ghotals” and political seat.What will it take for this impotent government to wake up

    [Reply]

  • s ramji

    Best things is to hire someone in Pakistan to end the fugitives in Pakistan. there should be enough persons to do the job or money. It has to be an international tender. If America can do it why not we?

    [Reply]

  • prashant saxena

    sadly, beheading as a form of adding insult to injury is not unprecedented in the Indo-Pak conflict. In fact old timers would remember the Gurkha regiment as the prime culprits in this regard. I met a Bengali Colonel Saheb who had received a Maha Veer Chakra after he beheaded a couple of Pakistanis. So, rather than lamenting he transgression of the Geneva treaty, we should condider who should be beheaded on their side. The Colonel of the Regiment of the Baloch regiment? The CO of the 29 Baloch battalion? His children? Those would all be valid targets. The only aim would be to inflict severe and unacceptable damage, to prevent recurrence of such an incident.

    [Reply]

  • Sanjay

    What is the role of Islam in this?

    [Reply]

  • Argo

    Have anybody seen the movie Munich cant we do such thing with these dawoods and saaeds hiding in some pakistani den ??

    [Reply]

  • TheHinduNation

    Very sensible and balanced article by Vir “Radia Gate” Sanghvi for a change. Hes right, no point in empty chestthumping, actions speak louder than words. If we could have our own Seals taking out and beheading Hafiz Saeed, video record it, and later broadcast it. Imagine the message it will send to all enemies of India, including Pakistan. The keyword here is IF….

    [Reply]

  • Vinod

    I read in your paper that the SC actually said that they can punish an idea! And that the freedom of speech is restricted by people’s sentiments. If that is true, India’s Supreme Court is now open to ridicule in the worst way possible. Such thoughts can only exist in the most regressive societies, religious books and autocratic nations. No democratic nation can accept such nonsense.

    These judges must be made to realise the horrendous error of their statement and issue a correction. This kind of talk is insulting to the nation and our constitution.

    [Reply]

    raj1 Reply:

    don’t blame judges, even they are living in this society,culture, environment, until these and people change, nothing will change. like typical indian, shift blame to judges.
    religion is 1 big hurdle, until its crossed we cannot go anywhere. but then we are secular, and some religions hv more rights then others.

    [Reply]

  • Raj

    J. Jayalalitha’s demand that Kamal Haasan should sit down with Islamic groups and re-edit his movie, falls into this category. But there are precedents.
    —- it was kamal who set this precedent. he had special show for muslim parties but after seeing the movie they went to state govt to ban the movie, not delete some part. so she said to work out a compromise, she didn’t demand.
    (see how media has its own sickening agenda. )
    didn’t m.f.hussain do that with his movie gajakamini,
    (but psudo secluar media is silent about this, but hindu protest is highlighted.)

    protect free expression. — also my life/work from being disrupted by these parties. for a youtube movie , usa embassy was attacked. so govt should hv 1 police for each citizen.

    – media should remove its pseudo secular blinkers & report news not their views on news.

    [Reply]

  • Raj

    politicians to get away with offering this justification.

    —- so , what do you want, a riot to erupt & then police to control it. so, say openly that congress & other pseudo secular parties to avoid this minority appeasement boldly if you can.
    media wanted to create another modi in jayalalitha !!!!!! to sell & make money. see how many are still in this profession by writing about modi all these years.

    [Reply]

  • Raj

    American civil liberties union

    — these are brave enough to call spade a spade, but our indian version is a completely screwed one, with minority appeasement. joined by media, english speaking so called liberal class.
    why is liberal class silent with mamta banning salman rushdie & tasleema. you can be sure the american version of liberal would hv raised this issue. even you made a passing remark, and side stepped it. if modi hv done it, we would hv been bombarded, starting with latest news from IBN., reams of news papers from The Hindu, & TOI.

    [Reply]

  • raj

    kamalahasan is liberal like pseduo secular politician. proclaim to understand muslim & islam, by attending few iftar prties & eating biriyani during ramzan.

    he says his movie does not offend muslims, but muslims say they are offended as koranic verses misused. so much for his knowledge about islam, shows his movie to them & they want to ban it, not delete some scene.

    i would like to get a reply from seculars like vir , if this happend
    - goverment arrest rioters – few theaters burnt , people lost life, work, property

    will liberals will shout innocent muslims targeted (or) justify their action because koran was insulted (or) kamal should not have insulted koran (or) blame govt for no/late action (or) blame intelligent department. (but if police do preventive arrest then you shout innocent muslim arrested & fight for their human right)

    its liberals who are confused, but majority is clear about all these,

    [Reply]

  • krishna

    INDIA’S TRYST WITH MOBOCRACY
    Even as our nation as a republic was basking in its self-glory for the sixty forth time in the national capital, its essence of nationhood was withering away elsewhere, in Amma’s own land. The irony and the contrast between the two could not have been starker. One celebrated the glory of the constitution and its practice through the state, the other denigrated the
    constitution and mocked both, its practitioners and the state. Kamal’s multi crore magnum opus ‘Vishwaroopam’ was stopped right in its tracks before it could roll out on the screens for the public, because some chosen few lumpens felt the film violated their faith and the book. They threatened
    backlash unless Kamal concedes and surrenders to their fatwas. The players
    involved this time might be new, but the theme of the on going narrative is
    frighteningly similar as they unravel in sequel to each other. From MF Hussain’s forced exile to Rushdie’s entry bans, from the outcry to ban ‘ fire’ to ‘Vishvaroopam’ the message is common, loud and clear- Intolerance. Ideas expressed through any form of art needs to pass the approval of the lowest denominator and arbiter of sensibility. Welcome to the new emerging India of the 21st century. The mobs have finally arrived. Not democracy, it is going to be the rule of mobocracy, here on.

    The near absence of rule of law and the capitulation of the state to the moronic demands of fringe lunatics, rabble rousers and wild lumpens on the street has only further emboldened the latter to institutionalise their politics of coercion. Judiciary, the last bastion of hope for the citizen to seek redressal and justice also has now given in, exposing its impotence for rational interference to protect the victims of such mob rage. In case after case of such mob attacks on the works of arts literature or ideas, the pattern is similar, familiar and now predictable, thanks to the re assurance that the
    state and the courts have provided to such mobs. Art and artists by their very
    nature are most often the unwitting victims of these faceless, mindless brutes. It is because artists like Kamal offers some ‘idea’ through their works of creation after investing invaluable creative thoughts, efforts and money . The fringe mobs who denigrate such works have nothing to offer,nothing at stake,
    except threats and destructions, demands and coercion for being sentimentally hurt by that ‘idea’. Thus, some rationally disconnected fragile sentiments claims its primacy and control over an ‘Idea’ borne out of intellect and creative thought process. Not some medieval age happenings, these are the modern day, contemporary India’s day to day events, actively aided and abetted by a defunct state as well as an unthinking judiciary.

    Forget the lumpens who objected to certain scenes of Vishvaroopam, observe the grotesque arguments forwarded by the court in its stay order and the stand by the state government in defence of the ban. They favour ban to avoid an alleged, imaginary law and order threatened by the goons
    in case the movie runs in its current form. The fact that the film has gone through and passed the test of scrutiny by a statutory body like censor board were inconsequential to both of them. What however mattered to both was “hurt sentiments” of some fringe elements with dubious credentials, and their threat to resort to violence in case they are defied. By invoking ban by the state and then later upholding it through the court, both have de facto failed to uphold the rule of law, exact opposite of what they are actually claiming. It is no coincidence that they overlooked this obvious fallacy of their stands, that it is goons who broke or threatened to break the law and not the artist Kamal. The ban only helped in legitimising the threats and claims of the lumpens while criminalising the litigant, the artist. If anyone who needed protection, it was Kamal for his work where he had invested crores rather than the depraved lumpens who wear their misplaced sentiments as potent weapon. The stand that the state government and the court took betrays the dominance of a much ,sinister and monstrous mindsets that guide our society, our government and now even the judiciary. Mindsets of the medieval brutes that sanctions the legitimacy of rule by mobocracy, where virtue is preset in the irrational claims of any mob,as long as they can carry out their threats of death and destruction. In short, a mindset that finally obliterates the very idea of ‘individual rights”.
    At a superficial level, the dynamics of such coercions, threats and bans sought by some fringe mobs with a simultaneous complicity by the state and the judiciary appears to be temporary aberrations and so inconsequential. But at a deeper level,the malaise is unmistakably a manifestation of our philosophical decay that has infested the foundation of our political, cultural and social outlooks. This is the philosophy of collectivism, that place the rights of a group, a commune, a mob or a gang over that of an Individual. Observe that in our “idea of justice” we confer the value of ultimate virtue in any act that is purportedly in the ‘interest” of any group or commune rather than that of an individual. There is, curiously no place for an individual identity in our society or political philosophy. We tend to draw our fundamental identity by virtue of being part of a location, community, religion, caste, organisation group, gang or mob. But never as an individual. Individual identity is secondary and insignificant for public or social existence. As a consequence, we seek our rights through such collective identity and very rarely as the individual.

    Thus we have various interests groups that bargain collectively from the state and the society for special considerations, privileges, favours or rights. Concepts such as Dalit rights, minority rights, tribal rights, handicapped rights, workers rights or any “special group “rights, etc are the direct fallout of this collective identity dynamics. It is now deeply embedded in our socio-cultural DNA. So much so, that even our judiciary views the delivery of judgements through this collective identity prism. It is quite evident from the stand that courts take whenever there is conflict between the individual rights
    and the so called collective rights. The ban on “Vishwaroopam” is a classic
    case that confirms this bias. The court decreed that it does not bother about
    the individual (Kamal’s)business interests or its loss if it feels that the
    interest of a larger group is getting hurt(in this case getting “sentimentally
    hurt” ) even though of imaginary nature. To pad up the justification of its
    contrived logic, it brings in the bogey of ‘alleged violence” and threat to law
    and order. Thus the court and the state government conveniently pass the onus of the above threat of violence and break of law and order on Kamal, rather than the Lumpen mob who actually gave such threats. This, is the final murder of what truth, justice and individual rights represents in any rational
    society. Jayalalitha or Mamta, Madras HC or Kolkata HC,they have unequivocally confirmed their refusal to identify the citizen as an Individual. Case after case across the country reaffirms the pattern of underlying thought process that guide the final frontiers of the nation. It is the collective , the mob that is counted, not the individual or his independent idea.

    The language of public discourse in all the spheres is in line with the above. When the revered Amma asks Kamal why his film should not be banned as she received applications from 24 Muslim organisations to that effect, what she effectively conveyed was the forgone conclusion that was already in the domain of the polity and the judiciary. Simply put, Kamal had only two options-to face ban or to capitulate to the lumpen mobs demand. The
    comprise formula had only one connotation to Kamal-to surrender unconditionally. Because it has not only the approval of the overall moral disposition of the society, the state and even the judiciary also approves in tandem. Kamal the artist, like many others in different parts of the country and in different context has no choice but surrender to the whims of the lumpens. India as a contrived discard of irrationality wins everytime, even though an Indian looses every time, bit by bit. The lumpens rejoice, the state celebrates its omnipotence and perhaps the Judiciary basks in its sense of jurisprudence.

    The triumph of unreason, irrationality, collectivism and mobocracy should not surprise us now. It was always in the offing, given the dominant mindsets or philosophy that defined our priorities as citizens. The age of intolerance that we witness today and cry about with incomprehension is the eventual consequence of what we had intellectually approved all this while. Kamal’s Vishwaroopam, in many ways represents the incongruity of the wild,violent bigotry that needs to be banished from the domain of humanity, but eventually ends up at its very victim.

    [Reply]

    amu Reply:

    the bogey of ‘alleged violence” and threat to law

    — so pls tell, who threw petrol bombs & broke theatre properties in chennai. who is going to pay for it. shows were cancelled in kerala & Andhra, both congress ruled states.for a movie on you tube , properties & us embassy was targetted in india. who did that ? SP has told it will ban in UP if it hurt sentiments, but nobody asked for it. is pseudo secular SP.

    kamal wanted to buy peace with muslims, by showing them movie . but after seeing the movie, they wanted a ban. it boomaranged on him.

    [Reply]

    krishna Reply:

    That precisely is the point my friend.We all know that there are lumpens lurking around all the corners of the land, thanks to a favourable biosphere created for them. If as a nation , or society we buckle every time they throw acid/petrol bombs, there numbers will only multiply.Remember, any threat, real or imaginary should never be let to get away with a message of triumph-that should be the sacred, bounden duty of the law enforcing agency and the courts. If that reassurance is broken and instead capitulate to an arsonist threat, the state ceases to exist.That is why i said it is mobocracy, not rule of law in TN and most part of India. Thus the question “who did it” is irrelevant in the larger context while analyzing the the role of state and judiciary in ensuring rule of law.There will always be some lumpen, ready with the bomb.The idea is to obliterate him, not the victims.

    [Reply]

    amu Reply:

    rule of law

    — collector of madurai & cudallore hv banned the entry of PMK leader Dr. Ramdoss into these districts, as he will incite caste clashes. but when it comes to particular religion, the pseudo seculars & liberals create a different picture as their victimisation, which fuels further tension. why will political party alienatate a particular group, when another will claim to be their saviour for votes.

    amu Reply:

    who did it” is irrelevant

    — this is problem, when A can do it why not B. when A was punished for its activity it would hv been a lesson for B.
    but not condemming A but B, leads to this situation. some groups hv friends in media which presents them as victims. so a common man is confused & asks why A is let out, and their action justified by apologist but not B.

    amu Reply:

    once you appease a particular religion, caste for votes, you will hv to do it for all. that’s what is happening. instead of arguing agains them , the media, liberals, gaurdian of freedom became apologist for these groups and here we are.

    [Reply]

    amu Reply:

    Forget the lumpens who objected to certain scenes of Vishvaroopam, observe the grotesque arguments forwarded by the court
    —- forget the court, if the lumpens did not object, there is no need for court. who gave them right to object in the first place. beating around the bush. call the lumpens freedom terrorist openly , will you.

    [Reply]

  • amu

    once you really give freedom of speech to the people, the corrupt political establishment itself is threatened.

    — ther are 100 of movies which depict politician, police, doctors, lawyers in very very bad light. there were many sting operations on them. modi is hounded day & night. so politician is not protected. but our english media is blinded by pseudo secularism of politician & join hands. people hv freedon of speech, i can write many things about politician & draw cartoons, but nothing about religion.

    [Reply]

    hanumant Reply:

    You point is valid but that is not what I am referring to. Criticizing politicians is not the only consequence of freedom of speech. The most far reaching consequence is that it makes people think. It causes people to awake from their ignorance. It is this consequence.that is the real threat to corrupt political establishment.

    Free exchange of ideas, no matter how offensive they are, makes the people intellectually stronger, which results in an automatic weeding out of bad politicians.

    [Reply]

    hanumant Reply:

    >people hv freedon of speech, i can write many things about politician & draw cartoons, but nothing about religion

    Try drawing a cartoon against leaders in power in Kolkata :)

    [Reply]

  • http://www.facebook.com/drabhishekkhurana Abhishek Khurana

    when will u finally understand that my brother u were good- now u have lost it, character above talent- thoda time lagega par samajh jaaoge

    [Reply]

  • Guru

    India does not lead anybody in any technology. Indian officials
    get HUSH money (kickback) and buys these inferior weapons

    and kickback money goes to Swiss banks. Do you have any
    American weapons???

    [Reply]

  • Jai-Hanuman

    Another Indian born/educated cab driver or working in Walmart

    [Reply]

  • Probhat Raha

    India does not have any coordinated Nuclear Policy. It has back-fired in the case of Pakistan. Pakistan with its wholesale imported war equipment is having the upper hand in deployment. DRDO is showing off new hardware but most of them cannot be deployed with India’s poor infrastructure.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    Highly speculative theory
    I believe if Chinese don’t end incurssion, Chinese premier’s visit this month will be a sour one, which will set deteriorating relations on steeper downward spiral.

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous

    But that cannot be a reason to blatently intrude India’s terretory. There are many countries superior, richer than us. That does not give them a right to challenge our soverignty.

    [Reply]

  • Joseph

    People like you just criticize. When we don’t have any national pride how can we expect others to respect us? These kinds of crimes are very unfortunate and they unfortunately happen everywhere in the world. If you have a solution to the Chinese intrusion problem, please share otherwise make these kinds of comments on some other forum.

    [Reply]

  • Amar

    I LOVE IT HOW COWARD INDIANS FIND EXCUSES WHY CHINA INVADED INDIAN LAND, EXCUSES AFTER EXCUSES, VERY DISGUSTING.

    PURE AND SIMPLE, INDIANS AND INDIAN LEADERS ARE WEAK, COWARDS, ALWAYS BACK DOWN, CHINESE ARE EVERY DAY FINDING OUT HOW EASILY IT CAN BULLY INDIA AND INDIA PROVIDES EXCUSES TO HERSELF WHY THEY SHOULDN’T CONFRONT CHINESE AND GET RID OF THEM…… I DON’T THINK CHINESE KNEW IT WOULD BE THIS EASY…. EVEN LOT OF CITIZENS EVEN THIS WRITER FINDS EXCUSES WHY IT’S NOT HEAVY AGGRESSION..

    [Reply]

  • Tarun

    Times of India, Everytime I click on Chinese incursion in Ladakh news headlines on Times of India, it takes me to this webpage, (( htt*****ww6(DOT)adspdl(DOT)com/ )). Any other news links are woking fine, only Chinese border incursion in Ladhak related news lines on Times of India. Anyone else experience this?? IS IT CHINESE HACKERS’ VIRUS?? And is Times of India aware of this??

    PLEASE REPLY IF ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCING THE SAME PROBLEM..

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    Anonemus Reply:

    that is an AD posting link which TOI uses to post ads on their website, it is just a technical problem.

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  • Indian_Abroad

    India is suffering from too much thinking
    and doing nothing.

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  • Indian Army

    very good analysis….India must immediately construct two helipads and move Bofors guns to the site, encircling the 40 chinese troops

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  • balaji

    for improving security one must look and follow bigger than self so india has look to and follow china , unlike looking at pakistan or other smallers to compare security force system and get satisfied/happy himself ediotically,

    as per security force capacity system india and pakistan are at similar stage, so that means pakistans politicians and defense forces are more intelligient or more aware towards security than indians politicians or security/defence forces….

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  • balaji

    for improving security one must look and follow bigger than self so india(125) has to look and follow china(135) , unlike looking at pakistan(20) or other smallers to compare security force system and get satisfied/happy himself ediotically,

    as per security force capacity system india and pakistan are at similar stage, so that means pakistans politicians and defense forces are more intelligient or more aware towards security than indians politicians or security/defence forces….

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  • Truly Anonymous

    We Indians basically have guts to harm our own people within our country like people from different religion, caste, and sex, but we just do not have GUTS to confront our others outside our country, be it china, dawood, pakistan. We always give the reins to rule this country into wrong hands like sonia ji, raul ji, gujral ji, laloo ji, mulayam ji, my *** ji…etc…Until and unless we as Indians dont realize that we are Indians first and then hindus or muslims or other things, we are not going to get guts to dare these situations. Jai Hind.

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