Fresh Airs

Thanks for the article.. lal meri sounds good

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Sanjoy,

I have been following your musical reviews for quite sometime.

Check out this group:

http://www.reverbnation.com/themavyns

They could do with some feedback on their sound.

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Really enjoy your weekly column. Am exploring Deer Tick as we speak. Just wanted to comment on a much older article you had written on how OSTs often don’t make sense in themselves outside the context of the movie. I wonder what you thought of it, but one movie that I thought had a remarkable and a remarkably ‘together’ sounding OST was Juno. A great movie too.

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Hi,

I have been following your column in the brunch………..almost for an year now , they are a nice read.
Checking out Lal Meri’s – bad thing, right now………Nice Fusion.
Can you also plz suggest some nice soothing offbeat jazz bands to me.

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Now the question is “Is Sujata Anandan Corrupt?”.

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nice

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RAHUL SPEAKS FROM HIS UNDERSTANDING OF MASSES,,WHO ARE NO BETTER THAN BEGGARS. RAJ THAKREY SURVIVED BECAUSE OF CONGRESS ONLY.
AS PER HIM ALL PERSONS WORKING IN OTHER STATES ARE BEGGARS.SEE THE TRAGEDY ,A PERSON WHO IS BEGGING SUPPORT CALLS ,GIVERS -BEGGARS.
THE WHOLE CONGRESS JUSTIFIES THE STAND OF RAUL WINCI.

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What Rahul Gandhi said is factually correct but politically incorrect.

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Sunita…fyi the other “bhaiyaa” or whatever you want to call him was probably breaking the rules as well. First of all he lives in a slum is illegal, secondly he is being given a free house by he government on public property and in that also he is breaking the rules and renting out or selling those properties.

Is it any surprise that these people are disliked ?

And the first one was right…it’s because of the “bhaiyas” that there is no traffic sense in Mumbai today. Raj thackeray is not opposed to migrants coming and living legally but we do not want them coming and living in slums, breaking the rules and taking the jobs meant for other poor people.

You are nothing but supporting a criminal there…you should be reporting him if he is doing deals on the slum redevelopment properties. Instead of that you are encouraging him saying that look how hardworking these people are….yes hardworking in breaking all the rules. Most journalists have now started demeaning the local population by subtly stating that look the migrants are hard working and you guys are lazy…if they are so hard working…ask them to break the rules in their own state and grow instead of flooding the other states.

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Casteism in India is spread and well-entrenched like TB – it will never be eradicated. What Congress has done is to exploit it in its fight against other Hindu parties. For any Hindu, what difference would it make if the Congress or the BJP or the BSP or the SP wins the election – apart from caste loyalties and personal gain? The BJP roots for the Banias, the SP for the OBCs and the BSP for the Dalits. Its only the Congress which can represent all Hindus – and the minorities – despite its myriad short-comings and soft Hindutva outlook. Only Mayawati could launch a very serious challenge to the Congress at the national level in the 2014 polls.

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Perhaps, she has got some of the facts off the target. In the recent municipal council elections, NCP has outperformed the Congress. We have to wait for the elections to the municipal corporations to make a reality check.

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My sympathies are with you and your reporter of 10 years ago in Gujarat – I begin to understand your pain that you feel upon watching the perpetrators of those inhuman crimes in Gujarat continuing to remain above law till now and probably for a long time to come, if at all they are ever booked for the same. Krishna had said in Gita that he would come into the world whenever attrocities go beyond limits. Now its time for him to visit Gujarat and take care of its victims and the culprits. Otherwise, as Gujarat is so near to Pakistan as well as Iran, some nuclear bombs may simply fall on it accidentally of course, by a modern-day Ghori or Ghazni. Before such a thing happens, the culprits should better be booked and justice done to the victims.

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OMG this dynasty slave is still around..

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Guest,
Do you even have a name forget any common sense?

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The answer is evident, is it not?
Very soon, all HT staffers will start blogging about Pakistan or even Timbuctoo.

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When article is published for remembering decade old riots, we should see articles being published for other riot cases (84 Sikhs massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots ) and ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pundits http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/kpsgill/2003/chapter9.htm . Lets keep journalism unbiased.

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If Akilesh can build up the impression that he is serious about tackling corruption, maintaining law and order and confronting religious/caste divides created by Congress he will make a good PM candidate in days to come.

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Rahul Gandhi will not be able to repeat 2009 UP Lok Sabha results. Akhilesh Yadav will see to that. SP will encroach Congress seats by widening its support base and Mayawati/BSP too will be back in reckoning. The RSS will work silently to enhance BJP’s performance but BJP may still not improve much. Congress is certainly in for hard times and will deteriorate further. Rahul Gandhi will be shy of exposing himself further in UP in case it backfires again.

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Do your think the organisational network would improve in two years time

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Wanna share one of my personal fav quotes in dis regard:
“I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read, and all the friends I want to see.”- John Burroughs

N mam, I’ve been following ur blog for quite sometime now…u r generally all praises for various books… It wud b fun 2 c u blasting-off some book/author for a change Can I xpct that anytime soon??

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“It’s strange how something that gives me so much pleasure can cause so much stress, but sometimes it really does”

But it is true about almost everything in the world. Take for example the HT Blogs themselves – and the writers on it. There are such fantastic bloggers as you who imbibe their readers with pleasure . Then there are bloggers like Vir Sanghvi / Vinod Sharma who are propagandists of a political party masquerading as journalists. Stress is the least of emotions while reading them !

But just as you happily continue doing your work, we happily continue coming back to HT Blogs. Some things are simply irresistable !

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She came across it in one of those circulating libraries that dot the inner streets of Bombay – some part raddi shop, part library, some part DVD library, part books library. How does a library circulate?

I totally know the stress you talk about. Apart from books, thinking about all the places I want to visit before I become a doddering geriatric freaks me out. I now stay away from travelogues because every time I started reading one I would slap the book/magazine down, light up and start pacing up and down furiously, frustrated that there is simply no TIME.

I want to get off the information superhighway.

But, I’ve learned to be content with the few books that I do get to read after I realized one day that I wasn’t enjoying reading as much as I used to. These days, I read one book at a time, slowly, like I used to, drifting into a reverie after every other sentence, talking to myself, smiling at what I thought was a clever one-liner I came up with, forgetting where I’d started as I realize that my finger was still between the pages I was on as I come back and dive into the story again..

Earlier, I loved the new book feeling that would accompany the trip back home from the bookshop. I would go to sleep with my latest buys on my bed’s headpiece. I still get the same thrill when I get a new book but these days I consciously keep the other unread books away.

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Sorry if I sound presumptuous in the next few lines, but still :

Then :

When you did watch cricket it was because you were “less interested in the cricket than in the wandering chaatwallas and the opportunities to play with other children”
Or
You watched in Eden Gardens because it was less about “cricket than about bunking school and the excitement of being in the Eden Gardens stands….I could talk about it at school for weeks”
Or
You “..remember being too excited to sleep that glorious night in 1983 when India won the World Cup – the Prudential Cup – and Calcutta went crazy. But I wasn’t excited about the cricket. I was just excited that India had won. Even though I was in my early teens, I could sense that something in the world had changed.”

Now :

Now when you do not watch cricket, you are by your own admission, an introvert – who hardly likes parties, rarely interacts with friends, etc etc.

Difference :

See what difference a game of cricket makes. It is not just a sport. It is a lifestyle. A way of life. At least in the subcontinent. Cricket is about camaraderie, freinds, joy, happiness – and excitement of a teenage even when you are middle age !

And I have not read Chinaman, but I am sure in some way the book captures this way-of-life thing.

Sorry again, if I sounded too presumptuous

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Mostly, it’s about the game, Kanika and that is sooooooooo BORING!

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I am bored by cricket, Parmanu. I did go back and read all the reasons I went to watch the game and they had nothing to do with cricket.

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Well said vir Sanghvi. I am a Canadian of Indian origin. There was a time in the Seventies, when Indians were not easily accepted and we had to try to pretend we were from Singapore or South Africa. The same happened to people from China, who pretended to be Japanese!The new successful India/China has changed all this. Inside India too, globalization is taking place and it is wonderful to see people from Manipur working in Chennai! India is changing fast and is coming to terms with its growth story. The buzz word is ‘inclusive growth’ and this will include people of the Northeast. Internet will make sure that Tamils visit beautiful parts of Shillong etal and the people there will not be able to stop it. Wake up India! You are being followed by other nations as a role model!!

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Great, Mr Sanghvi, a well written article. Being a ‘Non-Mainlander’ Indian, I agree with your interpretation of the fact that ‘Time’ will finally integrate us all as ‘One Indian’. But what I’m worried about now is the moral alienation we, North Easterners continually face with the mainlanders. When we have started moving with the mainstream Indians and work with ‘them’ in all areas, our physical proximity with each other has not necessarily brought a psychological integration. I remember once I was on a college trip to Agra and were visiting the Taj. I bought the ‘Indian’ ticket and stood in line to pass the gate, with my ‘Indian’ friends. While I was standing in queue, a policeman came and asked me where I’m from. Apparently he thought that I knowlingly/unknowlingly bought the cheap ‘Indian’ ticket and try to fool around (when in fact, I was a ‘Foreigner’, haha). I felt bad to be seen as ‘Other’ but then I remembered a saying someone told me many years back. She told me ‘We’re Indians, by Chance!’

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A good article from Vir Singhvi. No pseudo secularism and Modi bashing too. Keep it up and we might accept you post Radia.

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Dear Kima,
if it is any consolation, I was once dining at an eatery in Khan Market witha friend from Hong Kong (a Chinese) on a visit to Delhi. We were being served by a waiter who was obviously from North East. The moment my friend saw him, his eyes lit up; he beckoned him close and broke into Cantonese. The waiter’s face was quite a sight
This anecdote apart, I applaud you for speaking out about the shameful behaviour of our fellow Indians. Someday, hopefully, we will grow up.

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We all are different, speak different languages, look different, profess different religions, dress differently, have different food habits and we are all proud of our cultures. This is what makes India fascinating!

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Thanx for your replies Ashish, Ramesh, Raj, anon and Globe. I read them over the weekend but couldn’t reply from my phone. I have been brought up outside Mizoram from 3rd standard, so I know very well this is not the mentality and opinion shared by every Indian. I have a lot of non-Mizo friends from this side of India and cherish them. But there are also certain people who will always behave ignorant and obnoxious online, after all, it is the internet. That may still take time to change, but in the real world, I have indeed seen a lot of changes as I have been in mainland India almost my entire life, and articles like this by a prominent columnist really speed up the process Cheers to you all

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for dhai bhallas, many choices in delhi, each market is having his famous dahi bhalla but to find the best u must taste some of the stated below
1. At shakti nagar ganda nallah. you will find a lot of dahi bhalla lovers there
2. At maya puri bearing market.
3. At chavdi bazar chowk

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Don’t believe everything these media jokers say!

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Excellent, Vir.
Public sector transport workers all over the world have got used to having their way by holding the government — and the public — to ransom.

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Looking at Kingfisher, one wonders whether even the private sector knows how to run an airline profitably.

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I’m a late comer into the conversation and I enjoyed reading the comments. What struck me most was how gracious and polite the comments of the ‘wicked mainlanders’ were. Thank you. I am from the North-East and in the ten years that I spent in Delhi, I did receive a good share of racist taunts but I also made a great many friends who cared more about the jokes I told than about my ethnicity. This is one of the reasons why I’ll never pass a sweeping judgement on a people or a city. It’s also a pity that the many acts of great kindness that take place in Delhi go unreported. And we in the NE aren’t that innocent or spotless either. People coming from outside the region are often treated in a boorish manner; in the worst case, with undisguised disdain, and like in many parts of India white skin is respected and an African will be referred to as a negro. Well, as long as India has this colourful variety living together there will be problems but we have to find ways to live amicably together, and I believe this civilised and thoughtful discussion that’s carrying on is a good beginning…

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I’m a late comer into the conversation and I enjoyed reading the comments. What struck me most was how gracious and polite the comments of the ‘wicked mainlanders’ were. Thank you. I am from the North-East and in the ten years that I spent in Delhi, I did receive a good share of racist taunts but I also made a great many friends who cared more about the jokes I told than about my ethnicity. This is one of the reasons why I’ll never pass a sweeping judgement on a people or a city. It’s also a pity that the many acts of great kindness that take place in Delhi go unreported. And we in the NE aren’t that innocent or spotless either. People coming from outside the region are often treated in a boorish manner; in the worst case, with undisguised disdain, and like in many parts of India white skin is respected and an African will be referred to as a negro. Well, as long as India has this colourful variety living together there will be problems but we have to find ways to live amicably together, and I believe this civilised and thoughtful discussion that’s carrying on is a good beginning…

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Well said. Why go far ? Once every five years or so, we have a much more authentic and larger sample size, upto 60% of the adult population, to tell us what the nation is thinking. For what it was worth, last year Anna’s movement delivered the government a dose of snake venom that almost paralysed its reflexes. Baba Ramadev, hairy armpits and all, is a bit of a caricature. A gentle nod to the agencies under the finance ministry and he will be spending a lot of quality time with his lawyers and chartered accountants.

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Well said. Why go far ? Once every five years or so, we have a much more authentic and larger sample size, upto 60% of the adult population, to tell us what the nation is thinking. For what it was worth, last year Anna’s movement delivered the government a dose of snake venom that almost paralysed its reflexes. Baba Ramadev, hairy armpits and all, is a bit of a caricature. A gentle nod to the agencies under the finance ministry and he will be spending a lot of quality time with his lawyers and chartered accountants.

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payed article

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payed article

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crowd, media, internet, mobile phones, can be a source to ignite a revolution but it cannot be one….any revolution agnst corruption will not succeed until it finds the root causes

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A USELESS ARTICLE FROM A GUY OF NIRA RADIA TAPE FAME.PLEASE STAND ANYWHERE IN DELHI TO SEE ,WHO COMES TO HEAR YOU.

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What’s the difference between a Bangladeshi who comes looking for employment and a Nepali?
I can answer that question better.
one comes at peace , secures employment & does not form a group, trying to sabotage the country.The other comes in ,forms a group, bargains with local
leaders ,pressurise policy making ,finally try & take over the government and force others to follow their customs and traditions.

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Agreed. The Government of India should get out of its paralysis.

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We should accept the Pakistani Hindus as it is well known that they are discriminated kidnapped and Hindu girls are sexually exploited. So we should accept. But if it comes to accepting Muslim refuge then the answer is no. Because Muslim have shown that once they get into foreign countries they tend to change the local laws to their suitability. Muslim do have problem to co-exist peacefully with non Muslim. We already have this problem why make it bigger by accepting Muslim refuge. We can learn from the problem European and American are facing in regard to Muslim population in their country.

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The basis of this article is wrong. The muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh CHOOSE partition. So they or their descendants have ZERO right to enter India. All non muslims in these 2 areas must be welcomed to India because they are the victims of these 2 nations breaking away. And as for equating Nepalese and Burmese muslims. Always remember that India was broken by muslims who did not want to live with HIndus. Should we welcome more muslims to do the same in future?

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HIndu Pakistanis are a victim of partition. Who cares about Burmese muslims. What do they have to do with India?

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India should make every effort to bring back Pak – Hindus who were left behind during partition and send an equal number of Muslims
to Pak. This way it would stay as bilateral. I can imagine Pak – Hindus turmoil in that country where there is no law and order and there life is at risk
by muslims

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India should make every effort to bring back Pak – Hindus who were left behind during partition and send an equal number of Muslims
to Pak. This way it would stay as bilateral. I can imagine Pak – Hindus turmoil in that country where there is no law and order and there life is at risk
by muslims

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every thing in india is a nonsense-58000 thousand banglas go missing and so many illegal banglas living in india in slums every where, and now this PAK HINDUS —-THIS IS TO MUCH TO DIGEST-OUR POLITICIANS R RAPING OUR COUNTRY-I THINK VERY SOON WE WILL HAVE A PM FROM SLUMS,SECURITY PEOPLE WILL BE ALSO FROM SLUMS-SHAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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India can offer safe haven to Pakistani Hindus and Ahmadiayyas — another persecuted minority of Pakistan– so as to retain our secular credentials. Unfortunately, once this policy becomes public, the persecution will become even worse, as Pakistanis fundos will try to get rid of their unwanted minorities.

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The follies of Gandhi, Nehru and the Congress now come in full circles. These so-called leaders only let down the Hindus of the sub-continent due to their overly Muslim-love and apathy of the fragmented Hindu society. To ensure the complete subjugation of the Hindus in India, caste politics has been deeply entrenched so that they would never ever turn their eyes on anything else. Meanwhile India’s islamization would rapidly move on to the point of no return! The islamic India is not too far off!

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Why is this ridiculous (and disgraced) man still allowed to write for a respectable publication like the Hindustan Times?

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Mr Vir ‘Dalal’ Sanghvi, The “difficult choice” is a smoke-screen foisted upon Indians by the legions of Pseudo-secularists. Please get it very well into that thick corrupt skull of yours: For the 1946 Constituent Assembly election held by the British Crown under Separate Electorates, 89.6% of the Muslims voted the Muslim League into a thumping majority, whose single point agenda was a separate nation called Pakistan. The Muslims of United India were marginally over 24% of the population in the 1941 census and because of the astute Barristers who were forwarding their case, they were able to wrangle 30% of United India’s land mass. India had the double tragedy of having two totally failed Barristers who were forwarding our brief, no marks for guessing who these “high and mighty” were; they were BapuJi and Chacha Nehru. They could easily have sought a partition of Sindh from West Pakistan, obtained Chittagong and Rajshahi districts from the East Pakistan side, these both were over-whelmingly Hindu majority districts, but one of these mighty giants went on a “maun vrat” at that crucial juncture and the other went on to curry favour for his imagined grand-standing to become a “Hamlet in the world stage”! As if, this serious lapse was not enough, Sylhet district in Assam (with productive tea-estates) was in India was virtually “gifted” away in 1949 to Pakistan.
Now Dr Ambedkar was resoloute that the transfer of population had to go hand in hand with the transfer of land and assets, but he was shouted down by our beloved Chacha Nehru and his boot-lickers. ( That’s right Boot-licking in the Congress started in real earnest right at the onset of transfer of power). Dr Ambedkar was no “rabidly communal RSS chaddiwala” he was a staunch opponent of Hindu society, but he had studied Islam and had noted the political power that was handed to the Muslim League by muslims even from MP, Orissa,Tamil Nadu and even Kerala.
Pakistan/Bangladesh has no Pseudo-secularists as yourself, Barkha, Padgaonkar, Rajdeep etc etc to bring to the mainstream the plight of Hindus in Pakistan or Bangladesh. They are left totally at the mercy of Islamic nutheads that have overrun Pakistan and Bangladesh If your family were from the other side of the border, you would never write this mischievous article, even though you may have been a faithful “dalal’ of the Pseudo-secularists for decades.

Besides those muslims that handed the mandate to Muslim League for chopping the arms of United India, chose to stay back and create problems in India, getting into continuous acts of rampant rioting and vandalism at the slightest pretexts over the decades. Does that never strike you that atleast this one point of Dr Ambedkar would have been in the best interests of both the entities that emerged from the partition.

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What an idiotic article. Is this guy passing as an intellectual? Answer is crystal clear: allow the hindus to emigrate to India. Period.

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Romney? No. Obama? YesTitle should be Romney…. No Obama? Just a word game…..Dont beat voters right

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Obama has done himself no good but criticizing the video and then killing of American diplomat. This has become big election issue that he is a weak president who is into appeasing muslims. he should have first have send strong signal by talking tough about killing of US diplomat and then criticize the video but he did the opposite.

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Khamenei is not Khomeini, Zia. Netanyahu is doing his best to arm-twist Obama into attacking Iran’s nuclear-whatever; arranged to kill the US envoy in Benghazi and mock at Obama’s foreign policy gains in the M.E. by the easiest ploy possible – insult the prophet and get the lumpen elements on the street. However, Obama the under-dog fighter will not allow a criminal like Netanyahu to beat him at this game.

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Zia’s Islamic brothers are rioting and murdering all across the world over a very silly movie and no mention of that by the “Muslim affairs” correspondent.

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Political correctness means you cannot speak the truth, or you can’t get elected……..you have to talk grey, not black and white………..

………Revelation 19:15……..Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

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cmon zia brother

U know that all mussalas are tagutht to hate all other religionsas beign inferior. it is a gr8 game. The propehet is gr8 (PBUH) I love him.

Let others make a porno about him. Why should it bother me. It is a free market out there. We muslims make fun of SHias, Ahemadiyas and Ismailesa.. We butcher the Sikhs and HIndus.

All so rotten.

Bamiyan Buddhas fell to 200 cannon shots. So we are a joke. Be liberal brother. Most of Islamic tezxt is against women and otehr religions. It is outdated.

Katrina kaif would be buitceherdd today f our neighbourhood mullah had tthe choice. Madhubala the sexiset gal born would have been in jannat afeter a beheading. be agood muslim and forget iislamic books for a change.

I got a cut. But it does not mean I cannot date hindu gals without conversion. Yeh sab drama hai. Islam is as good or as bad as any other religoan. Allah is not the final word. Einstein and Darwin k now more than Koran, half of it is wrong. So why spread myths?

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“Western countries, on the other hand, must shift from just condemning religious bigotry to criminalizing it, building on the UNHRC’s Resolution 16/18. That’s the way forward.”

Where will that leave the ummah who practice bigotry in an industrial scale? This is crude way to protect the “sensitivities” of bigoted societies. Bigoted societies need to follow the civilized world and not the other way around. So for starters, any state calling itself “Islamic republic” should drop that term since it implies that nonmuslims in those societies are inferior. I am sure Zia wouldn’t support India being named as “The Hindu republic of India” but I am not so sure that he will support countries the Islamic tag in their names. That’s the sign of a true hypocritical bigot.

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Islam may preach peace but most muslims are violent. Muslims use the rules of islam as per their own convenience, then try preach you the stories from the koran.
China handles pakistan and its muslims well. Muslims know china does not buy their islamphobic stories. if they did this drama in front of a Chinese embassy, China will hunt and kill them all like pigs, maybe a few more just to set an example. Like India’s modesty in kargil, china will not stop at the border. It will show the real face of muslims.
it is just a movie and there should be freedom of speech. The movie is funny. I hope there is a sequel. All this killing,violence, drama has shown that muslims are weak & violent people. The movie could have some truth to it.

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Mr Muslim, as your other articles, this too is long on rhetoric and terribly poor on facts. you consider “Incendiary films, literature and cartoons that poke Islam are not an
expression of free speech. I consider them to be hate speech”. In short your position is in no way divergent from those thugs all around the world who choose to get into rampage mode, whenever it is convenient to whip up a mob.
This trailer was posted on 1st July and it is an absoloutely shoddily made movie, for certain, but the facts are clearly, without much alteration, straight out of Bukhari’s collection!
It amazes me no end, when pious Muslims spend hours and hours reading the scriptures, but have not been offended in what is in the most authoritative of the H@diths. I wonder if they have any comprehension of the hours and hours of reading they have indulged in. If they have understood the facts that were dutifully compiled by Bukhari, then it is very clear that they don’t want anyone else to know what is between the covers of this most authoritative source of Islamic history.
You conclusion that Muslims should look back at the life of the Prophet; and my point is they are doing exactly that! He NEVER forgave anyone who questioned his actions/claims.
He got a nearly 100 year old man (Abu Talib, I think) assassinated because he opposed his religious claims. He requested volunteers from among his followers to kill Asma, who wrote satirical poems about his caravan looting and slaughters. One who did the bidding of the “most exalted human ever” returned with remorse and guilt, only to be assured by him, that “even two goats will not butt their heads for her”.
The list is long and this is no forum for giving out the vast expanse of bigotry and brutality that was the defining characteristic of “most exalted human ever”. Is it any wonder that this group have to drum up a show of force to silence facts that are now freely available on the internet.
Mr Muslim, what value is the merit of your “secular” education if you too choose to be a “gathiya taqqiya” and opine to criminalize any recounting of recorded facts, where even truth is no longer a defense against a group who feel “outraged” . Your teachers must be hanging their heads down in shame at your residue of all the long years of educations resources that have been squandered for you.

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I don’t have to prove my credentials as a Muslim to you. In fact you need to prove your credentials as a human being to me. My mission in life is to puncture the humbug we Muslims practice all our lives. Yes, I am a management student and from a family of respected Muslim doctors which knows the hadiths backwards. It is my right to reject what I see is factually incorrect and against human rights.

You will never understand because you believe in violence against anybody who speaks the truth. Unless paras and practices in Islam are categorically rejected, Muslims all over the world will find themselves in confrontation with the world. Dont let your rhetoric sway you into a false belief of victimhood.

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Saj darling, it will never happen (me converting). How can an atheist be a sheep?? We are the only ones who think for ourselves and don’t follow any “holy” book. We are ruled by proof and evidence – that is all.

If what you say is true about 2025 – then the world is well and truly screwed. How many violent animals can this planet take?
Just to be clear, I don’t mean all Muslims of course. Just those who like to fight, kill and maim because it makes them feel good, or think that a books tells them it’s ok. Those are the animals. If all Muslims were like Parvez – we wouldn’t even be having this discussion – because people like him make this world a better place.

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Parvez you are an angel. You give me hope in this irrational world.

Good luck to you.

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Some people will refuse to believe you even though we both know it’s true. It seems to be what happens to the religious mind. It’s the same with Jesus. If he was around today he wouldn’t be seen as a good person. He’d be closer to an Afghan warlord of today.

The truth is morality changes and evolves (for the better) and that has nothing to do with religion. It comes from culture and inspired people. Religion is fixed and unchanging. If we still lived as they did in the Christian West a few hundred years ago, then people would still be being burned for being witches, or fathers would be offering their daughters as a sacrifice or to be raped. All that stuff was normal in the Bible.

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I am here as a human being and not a bigoted supporter of any religion.

Let me be frank. Most religions can be torn apart in context of today’s knowledge. While all of us have a right to believe what we desire, you cannot take my right away to reject what I perceive as wrong.

Why is Islam in confrontation with the rest of the world?

A few Muslims have tried to blame it on all, but never on themselves. Even in this blog

let me give a respectable translation of the Quran from Dar us Salam publications which is used to poison us against others. NO bad intentions on my side. Just factual plain speaking.

Here is the first Surah. Please note that the interpretation talks about the low life of Jews and Christians.

——–

1. Surah Al-Fatihah1.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)

5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).

6. Guide us to the Straight Way

7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

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This interpretation straight away goes hammer and tongs at jews and Christians. SO are we training new minds for a peacefull world?

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PARVEZ AHMED

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Can I say that I have followed Parvez for the last 1 year on these blogs. Yes, he is genuinely a muslim whose father and sister is a doctor. He is modern and thinks rationally.
He does slam ppl like Ravi and engrich-tajender who are militant Islamists or OBC- he does not take prisoners !! His heart is Indian, his religion is mild. Like mine.
Most militant muslims have an issue with him, but they should realise that if they want to integrate and do well socially and financially, then they would do well not to attack him but read what he says.
Regards Dr M, Harrowgate, UK

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First thing i want to say is islam is not a religion.as most of the world thinks.
islam is not myth it is fact of life it is a way of living it shows how to be a human being.in islam there is nothing like god nor any idol worship it is a system every
human being has to follow.

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sorry real muslim don’t be agitated sir by just having a muslim name is not a muslim u should know what is islam and islam it teaches to have patience.and don’t get provoked if some one don’t know about u r religion explain him in a polite way this is not the way.

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1 Peter 2:23-24……….
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

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Here all r angry about islam.today there r more than 1 billion muslims in the world they r all not arabs .all these muslims did’t get converted to islam by force they have adopted islam because they liked the living style of prophet mohammed(pubh)all atrocities done in the name of islam r not the preachings of prophet(pubh) islam is just following the sunnah(living style of prophet(pubh)
nothing more than that and if u don’t follow that u r not a muslim.islam is was adopted by many cults,culture,religion and region so there r many kinds of people and it is natural to show their behavior then where is the fault of islam.
there is no place in islam for a person who is greedy,selfish,cruel and inhuman to others.it is human to react if some one provokes u that dose’nt mean that islam is bad .

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we human beings r animal in nature(greedy and selfish) what islam preaches is to be a human that’s all . if u r not greedy and selfish helpful to fellow being then u r the most respected person in the soceity that is a muslim.

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mr sharma u divided a human into 100 pieces in name of caste u created untouchability because of that today india has more muslims u still practice untouchability .

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I think a lot of people want to demolish my being a Muslim and then be satisfied!

Well I find it funny. Why can’t there be a frank debate on the very nature of how Islam is finding itself in confrontation with the world and with itself? If I start this I surely will be called a fake Muslim, especially by people who claim to be the only Muslims. And then claim Victim hood ! Wow !

let me start with the first Alphabet of this REAL debate. The right of being born a Muslim and yet appreciating what Maulvis don’t like. Music, churches, hymns, Beer, Aishwariya rai… Darwin, Einstien,

I am sure the hackles of many a pure blood would already be raised. After all Muslims are only supposed to like this and only supposed to hate this. What rotten shit !!

Who the F*** has the right to rule my brain?

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I remember Zia writing that MF Hussein went into exile because he was “persecuted” or some such word. He is a fanatic. Fanatics can only be hypocrites since they stand on top of a sand castle which can crumble anytime.

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PARVEZ,,,which country u are talking,26000 women are burnt alive in and around delhi every year.name muslim country where suh treatment is given to women.DELHI HAS BECOME RAPE CAPITAL OF WORLD.in europe they have to work 12 hours a day to have 2 meals..

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Babu

Thank you for your kind words. I think we Muslims are deliberatly foisted a feeling of victim hood and end up confronting many gentle people. My aim is to shake up the innocent Muslim human and make him see that he is being made a fool.

I have added a few more points to your query, “upstairs.’

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To all the Muslims on the blog

Let me clarify I am just trying to bring sanity in the debate. It is very easy to keep crying that the world is ganged up against us. It serves no purpose. We need to train our minds in order to interpret Islam as per today’s world.

let me quote again from a version of Quran I have during a time when my parents were in Saudia. The world should evolve now. Of course Islam originated in the area where Christianity and Jews existed. But do we need to now have the same intrepretation? The Surah Ale Imran itself in the Dar Us Salam publication has at least 45 barbs at Chirstians and Jews. We need to have a interpretation which does not pitch the young mind AGAINST the other religions.

Now there are more vicious versions of Koran deliberately created to poison minds in say Pakistan. In the end the war of civilizations triggers of.

Here is a part of the Sorah as in the intrepretation. Please not the stress on how we Muslims are superior to Jews and Christians. Okay all religons say that to some extent, but for the new world we need an amendment– otherwise the world will blow up.

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98. Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you reject the Ayat of Allah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) while Allah is Witness to what you do?”

99. Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you stop those who have believed, from the Path of Allah, seeking to make it seem crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses [to Muhammad as a Messenger of Allah and Islam (Allah's Religion, i.e. to worship none but Him Alone)]? And Allah is not unaware of what you do.”

100. O you who believe! If you obey a group of those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians), they would (indeed) render you disbelievers after you have believed!

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Zia;
You reiterated some reports or studies. these are US based people but you are India based journo, you tell us, what is lacking amongst muslim communities, which is making them going down and down. please eloborate on those factors. let us hear from you specifics and not some foreign reports. Come on, ready to listento you.

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Lack of muslim leadership in india most of the todays leaders r corrupt and selfish these leaders r distroying the lives of the muslims in india.

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Show me one place in the world where muslims statistically stand out as model citizens. In pre-independence India, there were the labourers and watch-men. In UK, where so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have settled, there are, as a group, worse off than the immigrants from the Caribbean.All across Europe North America and even in Australia and New Zealand, it is the same leit-motiff repeating over and over. There are certainly individual exceptions, but how can you ignore such large numbers all across the globe? The mullahs brainwash the muslims to view this as a conspiracy against muslims, not their own short coming.
Muslims demand respect, but will give no respect to minorities within their own lands. They are constant source of terror and criminality even in places as Thailand and Philippines, were the normal citizens are so calm and peace-loving. Malaysia is the only country in the world where muslims are doing somewhat better, but it also is the only country in the world to “reserve” jobs for the majority community, and they they are doing it without any guilt or shame.
Thanks to the minority appeasement policies of the ruling party in India, muslims have developed a sense of entitlement to the wealth being generated in India. But, they dont want to educate themselves, they dont want to live crime-free, Muslims from all over the country supported the Muslim League in breaking up the country, being 24.6% of the country’s population then, they were able to wrangle 30% of India’s land mass, and then over 70% of the Muslims did not leave for Pakistan, their promised land of choice. And now this Muslim wants the hard working Indians to fund the community that stabbed India, with freebies that equates them with all the others who have struggled to educate themselves and work hard day in and out for that.

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I am rather surprised that my comments have been deleted. I have only tried to get at the bottom of the problem of crying victim hood by Muslim leaders. The community should look inside and see what practices makes them go to the bottom of the ladders in performance indices as compared to say Christians, Sikhs and Hindus and Jews world over.

There is no point in believing that Muslims are deliberately denied jobs because of religion. Most exams for government jobs have a roll no which does not identify the religion. Bad performance to qualify is due to bad education and beliefs. period.

Victimhood mentality will only create more crutches. Instead free the women from bad personal law and see the difference.

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Why are all Indian govts pro Hindu when the politician only cares about his/her wealth and power, being the worshipper only of the god of wealth? Because without the Hindu vote, no politician worth his P can ever hope to take part in an election, let alone win one. Indian Muslims too have made the same point but it took them so many years after Independance – now several political parties realise that Muslims of India are as much important to them as the Hindus are – for without the Muslim vote no party can hope to get a clear majority. This is what Mamata banerjee have realised; the same gyan have dawned onto the SP, TDP, BSP, DMK – remaining regional / national parties have to realise the same too. Even the BJP is getting closer to it but is shying away from embracing the same gyan whole-heartedly. Unless all political parties fully realise that without the Indian Muslims contribution to the political beggar’s bowl and so this community can no longer be ignored, no Sachar recommendations are ever going to be accepted or implemented.

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@ Mohan

Well, I comment on my religion only for the purpose to make the world a better place. I am Muslim by birth , but I claim the right to question. You have full right and permission to copy my views– if they are worth anything!

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Let us go to the period before Oxford, cambridge and Harvard, which, those who do not know, started as Madrassas for theology, when the Islamic golden age was inaugurated by the middle of 8th century.
The Abbasids rulers of Baghdad were influenced by the Quraanic injunctions and Hadith such as , the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr.
During the period the muslim world became an intellectual centre for science, philosophy, medicine, and general education, the Abbasids championed the cause of knowledge and established the so called house of wisdom in Baghdad, where the muslims and non-muslims scholars sought to translate and gather all the world’s knowledge into arabic, many classic works of antiquity that would otherwise have been lost , were translated into arabic and persian and later in turn translated into turkish, hebrew and latin. During this period the muslim world was a cauldron of cultureswhich collected, synthesized and significantly advanced the knowledge gained from the ancient Roman, chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek and Byzantine civilisations. So records the wikepedia.
And those who are not familiar with the history of Baghdaad, should note that found a resting place in the land known as the cradle of human civilisation, with the inscription on his gave,” He fought well and kept his faith. History shall also record that those who raided Baghdad in the 21st century were the graduates from the Pseudo elite universities of the USA, whose eduational programs fail to make a fully developed human after graduation

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Islam and Polygamy:

There seems to be some sort of idiotic defence hat Polygamy is all right for Muslims and Polyandry is bad.

I think the Koranic injunctions made sense in the 7th century Now they have to be revised for today’s times.

Why do we see our leaders rush to defend this anti-women Muslim personal law? Is it love for Islam?

NO!

it is a broom for suppressing women by giving men an unequal right in marriages.

In case all these leaders loved islam so much, they would have fought for implementation of the Sharia as much as they do for this Muslim personal law. Why don’t we see the Muslim leaders begging that all Muslim criminals in India should get their hands chopped ?

If Sharia law is no longer required today neither is this Muslim personal law which discrimantes against women.

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article written by M N ROY on islam and india.
Islam and India
ALTHOUGH Islam came to India after it had played out its progressive role, and its leadership had been wrested from the learned and cultured Arabs, the revolutionary principles of the days of its origin and ascendancy were still inscribed on its flag; and a critical study of history might reveal that the Muslim conquest of India was facilitated by similar native factors as In the case of Persia and the Christian countries. No great people, with a long history and old cIv1lIsatIon, can ever succumb easily to a foreign invasion, unless the invaders command the sympathy and acquiescence, If not active support, of the masses of the conquered people. Brahmanical orthodoxy having overwhelmed the Buddhist revolution, India of the eleventh and twelfth centuries must have been infested with multitudes of persecuted heretics who would eagerly welcome the message of Islam.
Mohammad Ibn Kassim conquered Sindh with the active assistance of the Jats and other agricultural communities oppressed by the Brahman rulers. Having conquered the country, he followed the policy of the early Arab conquerors. “He employed the Brahmans in pacifying the country by taking them into confidence. He allowed them to repair their temples and to follow their own religion as before, placed the collection of revenue in their hands, and employed them in continuing the traditional system of local administration.” (Elliot, “History of India) when even the Brahmans, some of them at any rate, were prepared to go over to the side of the mlechha conquerors, the social conditions of the country could not be very normal. Evidently, society was in such a disintegrated and chaotic state as to make the position even of the most privileged class insecure. That is usually the result of counter-revolution. A revolution may be defeated by a combination of forces; but that does not enable the triumphant forces of reaction to remove the causes of social disintegration which brought about the revolution. In India, the Buddhist revolution was not defeated; it was miscarried owing to its internal weakness. Social forces were not sufficiently mature to carry the revolution to victory. Consequently, after the downfall of Buddhism, the country found itself in a worse state of economic ruin, political oppression, intellectual anarchy and spiritual chaos. Practically, the entire society was involved in that tragic process of decay and decomposition. That is why not only the oppressed masses readily rallied under the banner of Islam which offered them social equality if not political liberty; even the upper classes offered their services to the foreign aggressor out of selfish motives. That shows that, while the masses were in a state of despair, the upper classes were thoroughly demoralized.
As regards the spread of Islam in India, an ardent admirer of ancient Hindu culture like Havell, who cannot be suspected of any sympathy or even fairness to the Muslims, gives the following highly interesting testimony: “Those who did so (embraced Islam) acquired all the rights of a Musalman citizen in the law courts, where the Quran and not Aryan law and custom decided dispute in all cases. This method of proselytism was very effective among the lower castes of Hindus, specifically among those who suffered from the severity of Brahmanical Jaw with regard to the ‘impure’ classes,” (“Aryan Rule in India.”)
This is certainly not a very complimentary remark wrung from a firm believer in the perfection of Brahmanical law. In any ease, it is clear that In the time of Mohammedan conquest, there lived In India multitudes of people who had little reason to be faithful to Hindu laws and the traditions of Brahman orthodoxy, and were ready to forsake that heritage for the more equitable laws of Islam which offered them protection against the tyranny of triumphant Hindu reaction.
In another place, Havell chooses to deco precate the spiritual values of the teaching of the Arabian Prophet. But at the same time makes a very significant statement regarding the spread of those teachings in India. “It was not the philosophy of Islam but its sociological program, which won so many converts for It in India.” Of course, for the masses philosophy has no appeal. They are always attracted by a “sociological program” which offers them something better than the given conditions of their life. And a bad philosophy, that to say, a reactionary outlook of life, cannot be associated with a sociological program which secures the support of the downtrodden masses. If the sociological program of Islam found support of the Indian masses, it was because the philosophy behind that program was better than the Hindu philosophy which had been responsible for the social chaos from which Islam showed a way out for the masses of the Indian people. By the above statement, Havell admits that even in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, when Islam was winning adherence in India, it had not altogether played out its social-revolutionary role, and that it was by virtue of its social revolutionary character that it struck So deep a root in India. That is to say even in its days of degeneration and decay, Islam represented spiritual, ideological and social progress in relation to Hindu conservatism.
Havell is a famous eulogist of Indo-European culture which he considers to be the noblest product of the creative genius of man. On the other hand, he has bitter antipathy for the Muslims. His opinion cannot be dismissed as biased against the Hindus. As a matter of fact, his bias is entirely on the Bide of the Hindus. So, if even a historian like him found distasteful things happening in India in the past, conditions were very deplorable indeed. He writes: “But the victorious progress of Islam in India Is not to be accounted for by external reasons. It was mainly due to the political degeneration of Aryavarta which set in after the death of Harsha… The social program of the Prophet… Gave every true believer an equal spiritual status made Islam a political and social synthesis and gave it an imperial mission… Islam was a rule of life sufficient for the happiness of average humanity content to take the world as it is. Islam reached the zenith of its political strength at the critical period when the conflict between Buddhist philosophy and that of orthodox Brahaminism was a potent cause of political dissension in northern India.” (Ibid).
King Harshavardhan died in the middle f the seventh century. Thus, the political disintegration of India was a process parallel o the rise of Islam. The death of a king, however great, does not mark the turning point of history. The process had been going on for many centuries. The Buddhist revolution arrested it for a time, only to be aggravated, accentuated and accelerated on its defeat. Indeed, the monastic degeneration of Buddhism and its disintegrating influence on the entire Indian society greatly helped the Muslim conquest just as Chr1stia~ monasticism had done elsewhere.
Commenting on Mahmud of Guzni’s invasions, Havell further writes: “The almost invariable success of his arms added immensely to his prestige and brought Islam many adherents among the uncultured warrior classes of the North-Western Provinces to whom fighting was a religion and victory in the field the highest proof of inspiration.” (Ibid). Mahmud’s exploit could not but deal a staggering blow to the faith in the divinity of the shrines where the Indians had brought their offerings from times immemorial. Consequently, the religious feeling which found expression in the worship at the shrines, and the faith in their presiding deities were rudely shocked and inevitably shaken. In such circumstances, “religious feelings’ and spiritual instincts” induced the masses to transfer their devotion 1rom the gods of demonstrated impotence to the more mighty one, the belief in, and worship for whom, incidentally, was rewarded so magnificently. For ages, millions had believed in the supernatural power of the gods worshipped at the famous temples of Thaneswar, Muttra, Somnath etc. The priests of those temples had amassed fabulous riches at the expense of the believing multitude by virtue of their pretensions to the ability of invoking the protection of the powerful divinities. Suddenly, the whole venerable structure of belief and tradition collapsed like a house of cards under the cruel blow of the invading Infidel. When Mahmud’s hosts approached, the priests told the people that the invaders would be devoured by the fiery wrath of the gods. The people confidently expected a miracle which failed to happen. Indeed, it was performed by the God of the Invader. Being based upon miracle, faith necessarily is transferred to the most miraculous. Judged by all the traditional standards of religion. Those who embraced Islam at that crisis were the most religious.
A critical Investigation of the Internal as well as the external causes of the Muslim conquest of India is of practical value today. It will remove the prejudice that makes the orthodox Hindu look upon his Muslim neighbor as an Inferior being. Freed from preconceived ideas, the Hindus will be in a position to appreciate the constructive consequences of the Muslim conquest of India. That will enable them to live down the hatred of the conquered for the conquerors. Unless a radical change of attitude 18 brought about by a sober sense of history, the communal question w1ll never be solved. The Hindus w1ll never be able to look upon the Muslims as integral parts of the Indian nation until they come to appreciate the contribution they made towards the emergence of Indian society out of the chaos caused by the breakdown of the antique civ1l1sation. Besides, a proper understanding of history derived from a correct understanding of the successful advent of the Muslims in India will enable us to ascertain and stamp out the deeper causes of our present misfortune.
On the other hand, few Muslims of our days may be conscious of the glorious role played on the stage of history by the faith they profess. Many may disown and repudiate the rationalism and skepticism of the Arabs as deviations from the teachings of the Koran. But Islam occupies a memorable place in history thanks rather to its original-unorthodoxy and irreligiosity made evident by the Arab philosophers, than to the later growth of a reactionary priesthood or to the barbarous fanaticism of the Tartar converts. Islam had played out its progressive role before it penetrated India. Its nag was planted on the banks of the Indus and the Ganges not by revolutionary Saracen heroes, but by Persians demoralized by luxury and the barbarians of Central Asia who had embraced Islam, both had subverted the Arab Empire—that magnificent monument to the memory of Mohammad. Still, it was welcomed as a message of hope and freedom by the multitudinous victims of the Brahmanical reaction which had overthrown the Buddhist revolution and had consequently thrown the Indian society in a state of chaos. Neither the Persians nor the Mogul conquerors of India were entirely devoid of the traditional nobility, toleration and liberalism of the Saracen heroes. The very fact that comparatively small bands or predatory invaders from distant lands could make themselves the rulers of a vast country for such a long time, and their alien faith found millions of converts, proves that they did satisfy certain objective requirements of the Indian society. Even when much of its original revolutionary fervor had been overwhelmed by reaction. Islam still exercised certain revolutionary influence on the Hindu society. The Mohammedan power was consolidated in India not so much by the valour of the invaders’ arms as owing to the propagation of the Islamic faith and the progressive significance of Islamic laws.
Even the fiercely fanatical anti-Muslim Havell grudgingly admits…The e1fect of the Mussalman political creed upon Hindu social life was twofold: It increased the rigor of the caste system and aroused a revolt against it. The alluring prospect which it held out to the lower strata of Hindu society was as tempting as it was to the Beduins of the desert “(It) made the Sudra a free man and potentially a lord of the Brahmans. Like the Renaissance of Europe, it stirred up the intellectual waters, produced many strong men, and some men of striking originality of genius. Like the Renaissance also, it was essentially a city cult; it made the nomads leave his tent and the Sudra abandon his village. It developed a type of humanity full of joie de vivre. …” (“Aryan Rule in India”).
To the above highly illuminating statement, it may only be added that the rise of reformers like Kabir, Nanak, Tukaram, Chaitanya, etc. who evidenced a popular revolt against Brahmanical orthodoxy, was to a great extent promoted by the social ecects of Mohammedan conquest.
In view of this realistic reading of history, Hindu superciliousness towards the religion and culture of the Muslims is absurd. It insults history and injures the political future of our country. Learning from the Muslims, Europe became the leader of modem civilization. Even to-day, her best sons are not ashamed of the past indebtedness. Unfortunately, India could not be fully benefited by the heritage of Islamic culture, because she did not deserve the distinction. Now, in the throes of a belated Renaissance, Indians, both Hindus and Muslims, could profitably draw inspiration from that memorable chapter of human history. Knowledge of Islam’s contribution to human cultured and proper appreciation of the historical value of that contribution would shock the Hindus out of their arrogant self-satisfaction, and cure the narrow-mindedness of the Muslims of our day by bringing them face to face with the true spirit of the faith they profess

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THE apparently sudden rise and the dramatic expansion of Mohammedanism constitutes a most fascinating chapter in the history of mankind. A dispassionate study of this chapter is of great importance in the present fateful period of the history of India. The scientific value of the study by itself is great, and the meritorious quest for knowledge is sure to be handsomely rewarded. But with us, to-day in India, particularly with the Hindu, a proper understanding of the historical role of Islam and the contribution it has made to human culture has acquired a supreme political importance.
This country has become the home of a very considerable number of the followers of the Arabian Prophet. One seldom realizes that many more Mohammedans live in India than in any single purely Islamic country. Still, after the lapse of many centuries, this numerous section of the Indian population is generally considered to be an extraneous element. This curious but extremely regrettable cleft in the loose national structure of India has its historical cause. The Mohammedans originally came to India as invaders. They conquered the country and became its rulers for several hundred years. That relation of the conqueror and the subjugated has left its mark on the history of our nation which to-day embraces the both. But the unpleasant memory of the past relation has been progressively eclipsed by the present companionship in slavery. The effect of British Imperialism is no less painful and ruinous for the bulk of the Muslim population than for the masses professing Hinduism. So completely have the Mohammedans become an integral part of the Indian nation that the annals of the Muslim rule are justly recorded as chapters of the history of India. Indeed, Nationalism has gone farther in effacing the painful memory of the past.
The practice of seeking consolation for the shame of the present in the real or legendary glory of the past has dressed the Muslim rulers of India in brilliant national colors.
Yet, a Hindu, who prides in the prosperity of the reign of an Akbar, or boasts of the architectural accomplishments of a Shahjehan, is even to-day separated most curiously by an unbridgeable gulf from his next door neighbor belonging to the race, or professing the faith, of those illustrious monarchs who are believed to have glorified the history of India. For the orthodox Hindus who constitute the great majority of the Indian population, the Mussulman, even of a noble birth or high education or admirable cultural attainments, is a ‘mlechha’-impure barbarian-who does not deserve a social treatment any better than accorded to the lowest of the Hindus.
The cause of this singular situation is to be traced in the prejudice born, in the past, of the hatred a conquered and oppressed people naturally entertained for the foreign invader. The political relation out of which it sprang is a thing of the past. But the prejudice still persists not only as an effective obstacle to national cohesion, but also as a hindrance for a dispassionate view of history. Indeed, there is no other example of two communities living together in the same country for so many hundred years, and yet having 50 little appreciation of each other’s culture. No civilized people in the world is so ignorant of Islamic history and contemptuous of the Mohammedan religion as the Hindus. Spiritual imperialism is the outstanding feature of our nationalist ideology. But this nasty spirit is the most pronounced in relation to Mohammedanism. The current notion of the teachings of the Arabian Prophet is extremely ill-informed. The average educated Hindu has little knowledge of, and no appreciation for, the immense revolutionary significance of Islam, and the great cultural consequences of that revolution. The prevailing n0tions could be laughed at as ridiculous, were they not so pregnant with harmful consequences. These notions should be combated for the sake of the national cohesion of the Indian people as well as in the interest of science and historical truth. A proper appreciation of the cultural significance of Islam is of supreme importance in this crucial period of the history of India.
The great historian Gibbon describes the rise and expansion of Islam as “one of the most memorable revolutions which has impressed a new and lasting character on the nations of the globe.” One is simply amazed to contemplate the incredible rapidity with which the two mightiest empires of the ancient time were subverted by the comparatively small bands of nomads issuing from the Arabian Desert, fired with the zeal of a new faith. Hardly fifty years had passed since Mohammad assumed the role of the singular Prophet spreading his Message of Peace at the point of the sword, his followers victoriously planted the banner of Islam on the confines of India, on the one side, and on the shore of the Atlantic, on the other. The first Khalifs of Damascus reigned over an Empire which could not be crossed in less than five months on the fleetest camel. At the end of the first century of the Hegira, the “‘Commanders of the Faithful” were the most powerful rulers of the world.
Every prophet establishes his pretension by the performance of miracles. On that token, Mohammad must be recognized as by far the greatest of all prophets, before or after him. The expansion of Islam is the most miraculous of all miracles. The Roman Empire of Augustus, as later enlarged by the valiant Trajan, was the result of great and glorious victories, won over a period of seven hundred years. Still, it had not attained the proportions of the Arabian Empire established in less than a century. The Empire of Alexander represented but a fraction of the vast domain of the Khalifs. For nearly a thousand years, the Persian Empire resisted the arms of Rome, only to be subdued by the “Sword of God” in less than a decade. Let a modern historian describe the miracle of the rise of Islam.
�Nowhere was there a vestige of an Arabian state, of a regular army, or of a common political ambition. The Arabs were poets, dreamers, fighters, traders; they were not politicians. Nor had they found in religion a stabilizing or unifying power. They practiced a low form of polytheism. A hundred years later, these obscure savages had achieved for themselves a great world power. They had conquered Syria and Egypt, they had overwhelmed and converted Persia, mastered Western Turkestan and part of the Punjab. They had wrested Africa from the Byzantines and the Berbers, Spain from the Visigoths. In the West they threatened France, in the East Constantinople. Their fleets, built in Alexandria or the Syrian ports, rode the waters of the Mediterranean, pillaged the Greek islands and challenged the naval power of the Byzantine Empire. Their success had been won so easily, the Persians and Berbers of the Atlas Mountains alone offering a serious resistance, that at the beginning of the eighth century it must have seemed an open question whether any final obstacle could be opposed to their victorious course. The Mediterranean had ceased to be a Roman lake. From one end of Europe to the other, the Christian states found themselves confronted with the challenge of a new Oriental civilization founded on a new Oriental faith.” (H. A. L. Fisher, “A History of Europe”, pp. 137/8.)
How did that stupendous miracle happen? That has been one of the baffling questions for historians. To-day the educated world has rejected the vulgar theory that the rise of Islam was a triumph of fanaticism over sober and tolerant peoples. The phenomenal success of Islam was primarily due to its revolutionary significance and its ability to lead the masses out of the hopeless situation created by the decay of antique civilizations not only of Greece and Rome but of Persia and China-and of India

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@ Saad

life is all about today.

If you talk about past glories and apply the rules of yesterday… I am afraid you will be like Geoffery Boycott playing 20-20

No group of people are let down by a few leaders. Its is a collective mindset which needs to change. If yo cling on to a fallacy that everything as per the book and new knowledge be damned, well the state of the Muslims would be as it is today world over. Just lagging behind the world except in places where oil is found.

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ISLAMIC PHILOSOPHY
THE age of Arabian learning lasted about five hundred years, and coincided with the darkest period of European history. During the same period, India also was lying prostrate, under the triumphant Brahmanical reaction which had subverted or corrupted Buddhism. Eventually, it was, thanks to the inglorious success of having overcome the Buddhist revolution, that India fell such an easy prey to’ Muslim invaders.
Under the enlightened reign of the Abbassides, the Fatemites and the Ommiades rulers, learning and culture prospered respectively In Asia, North-Africa and Spain. From Samarqand and Bokhara to Fez and Cordova, numerous scholars studied and taught astronomy, mathematics, physics, chemistry, medicine and music. The invaluable treasure of Greek philosophy and learning had been burled under the intolerance and superstition of the Christian Church. Had it not been for the Arabs, It would have been irretrievably lost, and the dire consequence of such a mishap can be easily imagined.
Vain piety and hypocritical holiness induced the Christians to spurn the science of antiquity as profane. In consequence of that vanity of Ignorance, the peoples of Europe were plunged into the medieval darkness which threatened to be bottomless and interminable. The happy resurrection of the divine light of knowledge, lit by the sages of ancient Greece, at long last dissipated the depressing darkness of Ignorance and superstition prejudice and intolerance, and snowed the European peoples the way to material prosperity, intellectual progress and ,spiritual liberation. It was through the Arabian philosophers and scientists that the rich patrimony of Greek learning reached the fathers of modem rationalism and the pioneer of scientific research, Roger Bacon, was a disciple of the Arabs. In the opinion of Humboldt, the Arabians are to be considered “the proper founders of the physical sciences, in the signification of the term which we are now accustomed to give it.” {“Kosmos”, Vol. II.)
Experiment and measurement are the great instruments with the aid of which they made a path for progress, and raised themselves to a position of the connecting link between the scientific achievements of the Greek and those of the modern time.
AI Kandi, AI Hassan, AI Farabi, Avicena, Al Gazali, Abubakr, Avempace, Al Phetragius. (The Arabian names are so contracted in historical works written in European languages) -these are names memorable in the annals of human culture; and the fame of the great Averroes has been 1mmortalised as that of the man who made the forerunners of modern civilization acquainted with the genius of Aristotle, thereby giving an inestimable impetus to the struggle of the European humanity to liberate itself from the paralyzing influence of theological bigotry and sterile scholasticism. The epoch-making role of the great Arab rationalist, who flourished in the first half of the twelfth century under the enlightened patronage of the Sultan 0! Andalusia, is eloquently depicted by the well-known saying of Roger Bacon: “Nature was interpreted by Aristotle, and Aristotle interpreted by Averroes.”
The standard of spiritual revolt against the authority of the Christian Church, and the domination of theology, was hoisted in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. The rationalist rebels drew their inspiration from the scientific teachings of the great philosophers of ancient Greece, and these they learned from the Arabian scholars, particularly Averroes.
The bigotry of the pious Justinian, in the beginning of the sixth century, finally purged the holy world of Christian superstition of the remaining vestiges of pagan learning. The last Greek scholars were forced to leave the ancient seats of learning. They emigrated from the Roman Empire, and sought refuge in Persia; but there also sacerdotal intolerance proved equally hostile to profane learning. Eventually, the derelict science of Athenian culture found a hospitable home in the court of the Abbassides Khalifs of Baghdad who were so impressed by the wisdom of those foreign infidels that neither Koran, nor sword was offered to them. On the contrary, all the remaining votaries of ancient learning, whose knowledge ridiculed faith, and indulgently smiled at all religion, were invited to accept the liberal hospitality of the Commander of the faithful.
The Khalifs not only took the exiled Greek scholars under their protection. They dispatched competent men to different parts of the Roman Empire with the instruction and the means to collect all the available works of the sages of ancient Greece. The precious works of Aristotle, Hipparchus, Hyppocrates, Galen and other scientists were translated into the Arabian language, and the Khalifs gave every encouragement to the propagation of those irreligious teachings throughout the Muslim world. Schools established at State expense disseminated scientific knowledge to thousands of students belonging to all classes of society,-”from the son of the noble to that of the mechanic”. Poor students received education free, and teachers were handsomely remunerated for their services which were held at the highest esteem. The Arab historian, Abul Faragius, records the following views of Khalif Al Mamon regarding the men of leaning: “They are the elect of God, his best and most useful servants, whose lives are devoted to the improvement of their rational faculties. The teachers of wisdom are the true luminaries and legislators of a world which without their aid would again sink into ignorance an barbarism.
The current notion of the bigotry and fanaticism of Islam loses all historical authenticity when it is known that the men of learning so highly appreciated by the successors of the Prophet, were mostly devoid of any religious fervour, not a few of them holding views frankly heretical; and the general burden of their teachings was the assertion of the reason of man as the only standard of truth. History does not provide the critical student with many instances of the head of a religious order encouraging the “improvement of rational faculties”, as Khalif Al Mamon did. For, the cultivation of rational faculties is entirely incompatible with faith. Yet, Al Manon was but one of the illustrious lines of Abbassides Khalifs who not only encouraged the propagation of scientific knowledge, but themselves participated in it. Nor were the enlightened Abbassides an exception.
The Fatemites of Africa and the Omminades of Spain rivaled them in political power, material prosperity as well as in the patronage and propagation of knowledge. The library of Cairo contained over one hundred thousand volumes; whereas Cordova boasted of six times as many. This fact gives lie to another calumny which depicts the rise of Islam as an eruption of savage fanaticism, namely, the tale of the destruction of the famous library of Alexandria. One must have a pious mind or credulous disposition to believe that those who took delight in founding and supporting such noble seats of learning, would have callously set fire to the library of Alexandria; that, those who command the gratitude of mankind for having saved its most precious patrimony, could have possibly begun by contributing to the destruction of that treasure. When dispassionate and scientific study of history dissipates legends and discredits malicious tales, the rise of Islam stands out not as a scourge but a blessing for the mankind.
While books written in the eleventh and twelfth century indignantly detail the shocking tale of the burning of the library of Alexandria, the historians Eustichius and Elmacin, both Egyptian Christians, who wrote soon after the Saracen conquest of their country, are significantly silent about the savage act. The former, a patriarch of Alexandria, could be hardly suspected of partiality to the enemies of Christianity. An order of Khalif Omar has been usually cited as evidence of the barbarous act ascribed to his general. It would have been much easier not to record that order than to suppress any historical work composed by Christian prelates who had endless possibilities of concealing their composition. A diligent examination of all relevant evidence enabled Gibbon to arrive at the following opinion on the matter: “The rigid sentence of Omar is repugnant to the sound and orthodox precept of the Mohammedan Casuits; they expressly declare that the religious books of the Jews and Christians, which are acquired by the right of war, should never be committed to the flames, and that the works of profane scientists, historians or poets, physicians or philosophers, may be lawfully applied to the use of the faithful.” (“Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire”).
Since history began to be written with impartial criticism, the tale of the destruction of the Alexandrian library has either been discredited or subjected to grave doubt. In any case, at the time of the Saracen conquest, the library of Alexandria had ceased to be the repository of the valuable records of Greek learning. Long before that time, Alexandria had enshrined Christian bigotry in the place of scientific knowledge and philosophical wisdom. The character of the contents of the library must have changed accordingly. The pagan scholars, driven by Christian intolerance away from the seat of ancient learning, must have carried away the treasures they valued more than all other things. If the flame was actually lit by the order of Omar, it consumed ponderous tomes of theological controversy which had done immensely more harm than good to mankind. The fire of Islam might have consumed the none too precious records of vain and futile theological disputations; but the admirable ardour the free-thinking Khalifs collected, preserved and improved the valuable records of ancient learning which had left the Alexandrian library before its useless and pernicious contents were put to the flames.
Byzantine barbarism had undone the meritorious work of the Ptolymies. The real destruction of the Alexandrian seat of learning had been the work of St. Cyril who defiled the Goddess of learning in the famous fair of Hyparia. That was already in the beginning of the fifth century. The Christian Saint would not tolerate that philosophical lectures and mathematical discourses held by a young pagan woman should be patronized by the elite of Alexandrian society, while the pious but incomprehensible sermons of the Archbishop were attended only by the rebels. If he was no match intellectually, he possessed the power to eliminate competition once for all Under his instigation, the rebels, led by a regiment of monks burning with religious frenzy, attacked the seat of Alexandrian learning and, in the name of religion, perpetrated crimes too painful to be recorded and too shameful to be remembered.
“Thus, in the four hundred and fourteenth year of our era, the position of philosophy in the intellectual metropolis of the world was determined; henceforth, science must sink into obscurity and subordination. Its public existence will no longer be tolerated. Indeed, it may be said that from this period for some centuries it altogether disappeared. The leaden mace of bigotry had struck and shivered the exquisitely tempered steel of Greek philosophy. Cyril’s act passed unquestioned. It was now ascertained that throughout the Roman world, there must be no more liberty of thought…..Such assertions might answer their purposes very well so long as the victors maintained their power in Alexandria, but they manifestly are of inconvenient application after the Saracens had captured the city. For the next two dreary and weary centuries, things remained, until oppression and force were ended by foreign invaders. It was well for the world that the Arabian conquerors avowed their true argument, the scimitar, and made no pretensions to superhuman wisdom. They were thus left free to pursue knowledge without involving themselves in theological contradictions, and were able to make Egypt once more illustrious among the nations the earth,-to snatch it from the hideous fanaticism, ignorance and barbarism into which it had been plunged.” (Draper, “The History of the Intellectual Development of Europe,” Vol. 1, p. 325).
The works of the sages of ancient Greece were not only rescued, collected and preserved by the Arabs. They were profuse commented and improved upon. Complete works of Plato, Aristotle, Euclid, Appolonius, Ptolemy, Hyppocrates and Galen were available to the fathers of modern Europe at first only in Arabic versions, accompanied by erudite commentaries. Modern Europe learned from the Arabs not only medicine and mathematics. The science of astronomy, which widens the vision of man and reveals before him the mechanical laws of nature, was jealously cultivated by the Arabs. With the aid of new instruments of observation, Arab philosophers acquired exact knowledge about the circumference of the earth the position and number of planets. In their hand, astronomy began to outgrow its primitive form, (divinations of Astrology), cultivated more or less by the priests of all Oriental countries, and to develop into an exact science. Although algebra had been invented by Diophantus of Alexandria, it did not become an object of common study until the age of Arabic learning. As a matter of fact, the name of the science has given currency to the theory of its Arabian origin. But the Arabs themselves modestly acknowledged their indebtness to the Greek master. Botany was studied for medical purposes; yet the discovery of two thousand varieties of plants by Dioscorides represented the birth of a new science. Alchemy was a secret, jealously guarded by the priests of ancient Egypt. It was also practiced at Babylon. In a much later period, rudiments of chemistry were also known to the physicians of India. But the science of chemistry owes its origin and initial developments to the industry of the Arabs. “They first invented and named the alembic for the purposes of distillation; analyzed the substances of the three kingdoms of nature; tried the distinction and amenities of alkalis and acids; and converted the precious minerals into soft and salutary medicine.” (Gibbon).
It was in the science of medicine that the Arabs made the greatest progress. Masua and Geber were worthy disciples of Galen, and substantially added to what they had learned from the great master. Avicena, born in distant Bokhara, in the tenth century, reigned in Europe as the undisputed authority of the medical science for five hundred years. The school of Salermo, until the sixteenth century, was the centre of medical learning in Europe. It owed its origin to the Saracens and taught the lessons of Avicena.
The distinctive merit of the Arab scholars was the zeal to acquire knowledge through observation. They discarded the vanity of airy speculation, and stood firmly on the ground known to them. That great merit of Arabian learning is decisively evidenced in the following view of its Doyen Averroes: “The religion peculiar to philosophers is the study of that which is; for no sublimer worship can be given to God than the knowledge of his works, which leads to the knowledge of him and his reality. That is the noblest action in His eyes; the vilest is taxing, as error and vain presumption, the efforts of those who practice this worship, and who in this religion have the purest of religions.” A religion which permitted the propagation of such irreligious views, though garbed in a pious phraseology, could not have its origin in intolerance and fanaticism. For this heterodox view, the philosopher, of course, incurred the wrath of the priesthood; but much more of the Christian than the Muslim.
After a short banishment, Averroes was restituted in his position in the court of the Sultan of Andalusia, and his books survived proscription in the Islamic world. But from their Latin version, the above and similar passages were expunged. Yet, the heretic movements of Europe, during the twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth century, drew their inspiration from the suppressed teachings of the Arab philosopher; and it was the heretic movement that shook the foundation of the Catholic Church which had held Europe in spiritual subordination throughout the middle-ages. From the twelfth century onwards, until the triumph of modern learning, Averroism was analogous to heresy in the horrified eye of Christian holiness. And it was for nothing that it was so. For, alone the passage quoted above indicated the surest point of departure for the quest of positive knowledge which eventually cleared away the debris of ignorance, sanctified as faith, and glorified as virtue on the authority of theological dogmas.
In this passage, Averroes stated the basic principle of the inductive method-the surest way to true knowledge. On the preconceived notion of a creator is set aside, and of is made to know him (as distinct from the blind faith in his existence) in his reality through the empirical knowledge of his works, that is, nature, the divine object, recedes farther and farther, until it vanishes Into nothingness,- the only demonstrable reality about his existence; and a religion which promoted that singular quest for the knowledge of God certainly represented the greatest advance of human ideology under the garb of religion. The latest of Great Religions, Islam was the greatest; and as such destroyed the basis of all religions. That is the essence of its historical significance.
The centre of Islam and Arabic learning was in those very historical regions where the older civilizations of the Egyptians, Assyrians, Jews, Persians and Greeks had arisen, clashed and fallen. The positive outcome of those earlier civilizations went into the making of the Arabian culture, and the remarkable Monotheism of Mohammad made its own the cardinal principles of the religion of those ancient peoples. It stands to the credit of the Arabian philosophers that they, for the first time, conceived the sublime idea of a common origin of all religions. Not only did they hold the view, singularly broad for the epoch, that all religions were so many efforts of the human mind to solve the great mysteries of life and nature; they went so much farther as to make the bold suggestion that the effort more reconcilable with reason was the greater, nobler and sublimer. This rationalistic view of religion attained the highest clarity in the mind of Averroes.
Thus, together with the invaluable metaphysical and scientific teachings of the sages of Athens and Alexandria, the Arabs contributed something original to the foundation of modern civilization. It was skepticism-that powerful solvent of all faith. As soon as criticism challenges credulity, a new light dawns on the perspective of human progress. A curious book, anonymously published with the title “Three Imposters”, occupies a prominent place in the early history of skepticism in Europe. The credit for that scandalous composition was attributed e1ther to the heretical Christian Emperor Frederic Barbarossa, or the Muslim philosopher Averroes. The imposters were Moses, Christ and Mohammad. One of the suspected authors was a Christian and the other was a Mussulman. Religion certainly had fallen in bad days.
There had been skepticism before the thirteenth century, but no real incredulity. This doctrine and that had been disputed or rejected; but the foundation of Christian faith had never been touched. It was this foundation which was assailed when the idea was conceived that all religions have a common ground. If all religions are essentially the same, then the doctrine and dogmas peculiar to each other should be discarded as pernicious obstacles to the realization of the spiritual unity of mankind. But freed from doctrines and dogmas, religion has no leg to stand upon. Its rationalization amounts to its destruction. The revolutionary idea of the common origin of all religions was conceived for the first time by the Arab thinkers.

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Saad

You are quiet a bore. Pretty boring.

How so you assume that all the scientists and philosphers you talked about were actually Muslims.

Are Vikram sarabhai Homi Bhaba, Newton, einsteisn, Abdul Kalam, identified by religion?

In the same manner many of the architects, scientistts you boast about would just be accidently born with Muslim names.

Get over this inferiority complex that you hav e 1% Arab sperm in your genes so you are superior. That is all claptrap drilled into you. None of the invading armies into India came with women.

Show me one painting of those times which show women on a horseback. Infact woman on a burka cannot mount a horse. Recognise your true genes and live today as an Indian

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@ Parvez

Beautifully stated man!!

I am taking this quote from your writing for posting to friends

——–”Why do we see our leaders rush to defend this anti-women Muslim personal law? Is it love for Islam?
NO!
it is a broom for suppressing women by giving men an unequal right in marriages.
In case all these leaders loved islam so much, they would have fought for implementation of the Sharia as much as they do for this Muslim personal law. Why don’t we see the Muslim leaders begging that all Muslim criminals in India should get their hands chopped ?
If Sharia law is no longer required today neither is this Muslim personal law which discrimantes against women. “

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Parvez puttar khush keeta. One of yr best posts. Well written. Cannot believe however that Sadia Dehlavi said that. Really ???

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Pervez,

A great post . FYI, Rao/Saad is our old friend Engrich/ Tajender/ Ramavtar.

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How much time have you spent in he USA? Obama is destroying our economy. By the way… ever hear of a poor person giving someone a job? Having money is evil? The Obamas, Oprah, the Kennedys and Clintons are millionaires. So are lots of liberal Hollywood. I guess it’s only evil to you if conservatives have money.

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I’m not sure how you can compare Romney/Ryan to the BJP. Neither Romney nor Ryan will advocate breaking the law, buildings or people. Both may be personally opposed to abortion but will ultimately uphold Roe vs. Wade.

Both men also conceive of politics as a civil profession and neither will be found on stage with a naked sword in hand like Modi or countless other Indian politicians. There is just no valid comparison here between Romney and Ryan and the BJP or any other Indian politicians.

I assume you were trying to make an analogy but it’s not a true one and I’m tremendously happy that you won’t be voting the US Presidential election.

And by the way, Obama is wrong. They did build it.

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We are unfortunately living in a world in which many groups think the world revolves around them or at least that it ought to. The Hindus think that their ideology should be at the root of a chimerical “Indianness.” The Muslims think they ought to rule the world. The AARP thinks the old own the world and so do all the unions.

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There is a problem, yes but going off the deep end in the other direction is not a solution. There are also people like Aayan Ali Hirsi and a great many Muslims who I would not describe as “moderate” in the conventional sense who see the problem. They are becoming more vocal.

There is also a great deal of culture left in the Islamic world. There are better and more intellectual movies and music that come out of Iran, Egypt and northern Africa than the nonsense that Indians seem to prefer.

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hindus are licking the ase of arabs more than muslims.hindu according to their religion has to i lick the ases of money and power.arab or non arab same for them.

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I think if child marriage is so wrong in your view why dont you go on the streets and say Muslim girls should aonly be allowed marriage after 18 instead of trying to blame Christians, Hindus and the rest of the world.

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Wow Dronacharya!!

I think you need to have a beer and relax. ALl the hatred and falswe history will come out if you dance on Daler Mehdi’s tunes!

Be liberal.. be free. No book is perfect. Islamic texts need to recognise the rights of Non Muslims, the right to leave Islam, the right of women, the rights of Qadianis and Hindus and CHrtistians.

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Parvez, good stuff man. Btw introducing sadly here on this blog Rex Minor who is a crazy Pakistani who blogs on PTH Pak Tea House with us. Ignore him completely

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Where is the comparison between between Pak Hindus who came as refugees to save their lives and ILLEGAL bangladeshis who are not here are refugee but have come for commercial reasons and are known to take to crime in various cities and associate with muslim terror groups. This land is HINDUSTAN and all hindus are welcome. Who is the govt to decide? We the people will decide.

[Reply]

Actions ReplyReply allForwardDeleteJunkMark as unreadMark as readDelete all from senderPrint messageView message sourceShow message historyHide message historyShow detailsHide detailsMusheer Siddiqui4/4/2012 To: m aFrom:Musheer Siddiqui (mssk47@yahoo.com) This sender is in your contact list.Sent:Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:18:06 AMTo: m a (mssk46@hotmail.com)IQBAL ACADEMY SCANDINAVIA The teaching of the Qur’an that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation, guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors, should be permitted to solve its own problems.
(The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam) SHAKWA AND JAWAB-I SHAKWA(THE COMPLAINT AND RESPONSE TO THE COMPLAINT)BY DR. SIR MUHAMMAD IQBAL
Iqbal wrote the two poems, “Shakwa” and “Jawab-i Shakwa” (Complaint to God and its Response), in early twentieth century. It was the prime time of his poetic revelation, which is called his third period that began in 1908 and ended at his death in 1938. During that time Muslims in India had almost lost their entity as a nation. They had become the most oppressed community in British ruled India. A little before Iqbal, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan (1817-1898) had realised that the major cause of Indian Muslims’ misfortune was their illiteracy and the lack of knowledge. After a long struggle and much hardship he succeeded in establishing an Anglo Oriental College at Aligarh which later on became a university. Presently this university is a big place of learning and research in India. This university became a source of self-awareness among a negligible portion of Muslim minority in India. However, the masses of the community remained deprived of education and ultimately remained suffering in all parts of life. Due to poverty and lack of resources they were unable to educate their children. Among those who were lucky and got education remained unable to get a job. They remained jobless as all the fields of life and key posts were occupied and dominated by non-Muslims and the British. Such a situation gave birth to the persons like Altaf Husain Hali, Shibli Nomani, Maulana Zafar Ali Khan, Ali Brethren, and others who worked in their respective fields to fight for the rights of Muslims. All of them were contemporaries of Iqbal and were among the front-line fighters for freedom. However Iqbal stood alone with his powerful poetic way to waken self confidence in the people of his community. He and his contemporaries (named above) were able to move the masses and carried them forward on the road to get rid of the British rule. Iqbal nurtured the minds of the people and changed the direction of the society through his melodious voice reciting his own songs in a touching way reminding them of their past glory. He was the person who discovered a leader like Muhammad Ali Jinnah and convinced him to lead the nation under whose banner Muslims of India were united and marched towards independence till the world saw a new country “Pakistan” emerged on the world map with the rising sum of the morning of August 14, 1947.
Iqbal’s poem “Shakwa” was one of his most thrilling poems, which he recited personally in the month of April 1911 at the annual session of Anjuman Himayat-i Islam held in the compound of Islamia College, Lahore. It was largely applauded and subsequently published in the magazines and journals of the country. This poem consists of 31 stanzas having six verses each. In the poem Iqbal has highlighted Islam’s living traditions in such a way that it strikes the very heart of a person. The carefully selected and well-knit words of the poem were immensely effective. They filled the hearts of a deprived nation with new life, courage and enthusiasm. The poem “Shakwa” is a unique example of a complaint to God. We have used English translation from Dr. M.A.K. Khalil’s Call of the Marching Bell, which is English rendering of Iqbal’s Bang-i Dara.
In the first stage of this poem Iqbal counts the chivalrous deeds of the Muslims reminding them of their past glory when they happened to be the leaders and teachers of mankind. They implemented the rule of God on the earth and brought revolutionary reforms in the states under their control where justice prevailed. Hereunder I quote three stanzas from this part of “Shakwa”:
Ham jo jeetey thay to jangon ki museebat ke liyeAur marte thay tirey naam ke azmat ke liyeThi na kuch tegh zani apnee hukumat key liyeSar bakaf phirte thay kiya dhar men daulat ke liye?Qaum apni jo zaro-maal-i jahan par martiBut faroshi ke iwaz but shikani kiyum karti?
(If we lived we lived for the calamities of warsIf we died we died for the grandeur of Thy nameWe did not wield the sword for our kingdomsDid we roam about the world fearlessly for wealth?If our nation had been greedy of worldly wealth Why would we have been idol breakers instead of idol sellers?)
Mahfil-i kaun-o Makan men sahar-o sham phirayMa-i tauheed ko ley kar sifat-i jam phirayKoh men’ dasht mey ley kar tira paigham phirayAur maaloom hay tujh ko kabhi nakaam phirayDasht to dasht hain darya bhi na chorey hamnay Bahr-i zulmaat men daura diy-e ghorey hamnay
(We continuously wandered all over the worldWe wandered like the wine cup with Tawhid’s[1] wineWe wandered with Thy message in the mountains, in the desertsAnd doth Thou know whether we ever returned unsuccessful?What of the deserts! we did not spare even oceans!We galloped our horses in the dark ocean.?)
Safah-i dhar se batil ko mitaya hamneyNau-i insan ko ghulami se churaya hamneyTerey kaabe ko jabeenon sey bassaya hamneyTerey Qur’an ko seeno sey lagaya hamneyPhir Bhi hamsey ye gila hai ke wafadar naheen Ham wafadar naheen too bhi to dildar naheen
(We effaced falsehood from the earth’s surfaceWe freed the human race from bonds of slaveryWe filled Thy Kaa’ba with our foreheadsWe put Thy Qur’an to our heartsStill Thou complaineth that we are lacking fealty If we are lacking fealty Thou also art not generous.)
The second part shows the state of decline of Muslim nation. But Iqbal has projected this aspect so beautifully that instead of creating a sense of despair and destitute in the mind it inspires a new vigour and courage to stand up and deal with rival forces. Quoted hereunder are three stanzas of this part:
Ummaten aur bhi hain un men gunahgaar bhi hain Ijz waley bhi hain mast-i ma-e pindar bhi hainInmey kahil bhi hain ghafil bhi hain hushyar bhi hain Saikron hain ke tirey naam se bezaar bhi hainRahmaten hain teri aghyar ke kashanon parBarq girti hai to becharey musalmanon par
(There are other nations, among them are sinners alsoThere are modest people and arrogant ones alsoAmong them are slothful, indolent as well as clever peopleThere are also hundreds who are disgused with Thy nameThy graces descend on the other people’s abodesLightning strikes only the poor Muslims’ abodes.)
But sanam khanon men kahte hain musalmaan gaiHai khushi unko ke Kaabey key nigehbaan gaiManzil-i dhar se unton ke hudi khuwan gaiApni baghlon men dabba-e huey Qur-an ghaiKhanda zan kufr hai ehsaas tujhe hai ke naheenApniTauhid ka kuch paas tujhe hai ke naheen
(The idols in temples say ‘The Muslims are gone’They are glad that the Ka’bah’s sentinels are goneFrom the world’s stage the hudi[2] singers are goneThey, with the Qur’an in their arm pits, are gone.Infidelity is mocking , hast Thou some feeling or not?Dost Thou have any regard for Thy own Tawhid or not?)
Bani aghyar ki ab chahne wali dunyaRahgai apne liye ek khayali dunyaHam to rukhsat hue auron ney sanbhali dunya Phir na kahna hui Tauheed se khali dunyaHam to jeetey hain ke dunya men tera naam raheKaheen mumkin hai ke saaqi na rahey jaam rahe?
(Now the world is the lover of othersFor us it is only an imaginary worldWe have departed, others have taken over the worldDo not complain now that the world has become devoid of TawhidWe live with the object of spreading Thy fame in the worldCan the wine cup exist if the cup bearer does not live?)
The third part of Shakwa is a direct complaint to God. Three beautiful stanzas of this part are quoted as under:
Ye shikayat naheen hain unke khazane maamoor Naheen mahfil men jinhen baat bhi karne ka shaoorQahr to ye hai ke kafir ko milen ****-o qasoorAur becharey musalman ko faqat waida-i hoorAb wo altaaf naheen ham pe inaayaat naheenBaat ye kiya hai ke pheli si madaraat naheen
(We do not complain that their treasures are fullWho are not in possession of even basic social gracesOutrageous that infidel are rewarded with Houries and palaces And the poor Muslims are placated with only promise of Houries
We have been deprived of the former graces and favoursWhat is the matter, we are deprived of the former honours.)
Ishq ki khair wo pehli si ada bhi na sahiJada paimaiye tasleemo raza bhi na sahi Muztarib dil sifat-i qiblanuma bhi na sahiAur paabandiye aaeen-i wafa bhi na sahiKabhi hamse kabhi ghairon se shanasai haiBaat kahney ki naheen too bhi to harjai hai
(Granted that Love has not the former elegance alsoWe may have lost treading the path of Love alsoWe have lost the restless heart like the compass alsoAnd we may have lost the observance of fidelity’s rules alsoThou art changing friendship between us and othersIt is difficult to say but Thou art also unfaithful.)
Sarey faraan pey kiya deen ko kamil too ne Ek isharey pe haszroon kay liye dil tooneAathish andoz kiya ishq ka hasil toonePhoonk di garmiye rukhsaar sey mahfil tooneAaj kiyun seene hmare sharar aabaad naheenHam wohee sokhta saamaan hain tujhey yaad naheen?
(Thou perfected the Din on the peak of Faran[3]Thou captivated the hearts of thousands in a momentThou consumed the produce of Love with the fire Thou burned the congregation with Thy face’s fireWhy are not our breasts filled with love’s sparks now?We are the same lovers, dost Thou not remember now?)
The fourth part of Shakwa is the ending of this poem. Here we find Iqbal singing as a nightingale in a garden praying and expressing his sentiments in the most beautiful and touching manner. Out of these we quote below four stanzas;
Wadiye najd men wo shor-i salasil na raha, Qais deewana-i nazzarai mehmil na rahaHausley wo na rahey ham na rahey dil na rahaGhar ye ujra hai ke too raunaq-i mahfil na rahaAye khush aan rooz ke aayee wa basad naaz aayeeBay hijabana su-i mahfil-i maa baaz aayee
(The noise of lover’s chains in the Najd’s valley has disappeared Qais has no more remained longing for the litter’s sightThose old ambitions, we, as well as the heart have disappeared The house is destroyed as Thou art not present in the houseO that happy day when Thou with elegance will come backWhen Thou unveiled to our congregation will come back.)
Mushkilen ummat-i marhoom ki aasaan ka deMoor-i bey maya ko hamdosh-i Sulaiman ka deJins-i nayab-i mohabbat ko phir arzaan kardeHind key der nasheeno ko musalmaan kardeJoo-i khoon mi chakad az hasrat-i derina-i maMee tapad nala ba nashtarkada-i seena-i ma
(Make easy the difficulties of the blessed UmmahPlace the poor ant shoulder to shoulder to Sulaiman[4]Make the invaluable produce of Love accessible againChange the idolatrous Muslims of India into Muslims againA stream of blood drips from the frustrations mineWailing palpitates in the wounded breast of mine!)
Boo-i gul lay gai bairoon-i chaman raaz-i chamanKiya qayaamat hai ke khud phool hain ghammaz-i chamanAhd-i gul khatm hua toot gaya saz-i chamanUr gai daliyon se zamzama pardaz-i chamanEk bulbul hai ke hai mahv-i tarannum abtakUske seeney men hai naghmoon ka talatum abtak
(The rose’ fragrance took garden’s secret outside the gardenOutrageous that flowers themselves are informers against the gardenThe spring is over, broken is the orchestra of the garden Flown away from branches are the songsters of the gardenOnly nightingale is left which is singing stillIn its breast overflows the flood of songs still.[5])
Lutf marney men hai baqi na maza jeeney menKuch maza hai to yihee khoon-i jigar peeney menKitney betaab hain johar mirey aaeeney menKis Qadar jalway taraptey hain mirey seeney men Is Gulistaan men magar dekhnay waley hi naheenDaagh jo seene men rakhte hoon wo lalay hi naheen
(There is no pleasure in dying and no taste in living isIf there is any pleasure, it in bearing this affliction isMany a virtue is restless in my mirror!Many an effulgence is fluttering in my breast!But there is none in this garden to see themThere is no poppies[6] with love’s stains in their breasts).
After one year of reciting Shakwa Iqbal presented Jawab-i Shakwa in a huge gathering in 1913 at a famous public place Outside Mochi Gate of Lahore City. Jawab-I Shakwa contains 36 stanzas of six lines or verses each. This thrilling poem in a way was a call from God rather than a reply to Iqbal’s complaint. It added fire to the already boiling blood of the nation after Iqbal’s Shakwa, as a result of the Indian Muslims arose with a new life filled with enthusiasm, courage and a determination to change their fate. Inspired by Iqbal’s songs they were united, fought the war of independence and achieved victory. Once again the Muslims of India were a free nation and masters of their own destiny living in an independent country called Pakistan, the new Muslim State appeared on the world map on the 14th of. August 1947.
The revelation of Jawab-I Shakwa and its compilation took a long time of over one year. In this poem a comprehensive reply to Iqbal’s complaint to Allah is given This poem contains 36 stanzas out of which I have selected nine stanzas which are quoted hereunder together with their English translation;At the outset Allah says,
Ham to mayal ba karam hain koi saail hi naeeinRah dikhlaeen kisay rahrav-i manzil hi naheen.Tarbiat aam to hai johar-i qabil hi naheenJis say taamir ho adam ke ye wo gil hi naheenKoi qabil ho to ham shan-i kai detay hainDhoodnay walay ko dunya bhi nayi detay hain.
We[7] are inclined to Mercy, but there is no one to imploreWhom can we show the way? There is no wayfarer to the destinationJewel polishing is common but there is no proper jewelThere is no clay capable of being moulded into AdamWe confer the glory of Kai[8] on the deservingWe confer even a whole new world on those who search.The following three stanzas are in direct reply to the three stanzas in the Complaint (Shakwa):
Wo bhi din thay ke yihi maayai raanaa-i thaa Naazish-i mausami gul laala-i Sahra-i thaJo musalman tha allah ka shaida-i thaKabhi mahboob tumhara yihi harjai thaKisi yakjai sey ab ahd-i ghulaami karlo Millat-i Ahmad-i Mursil ko Moqami karlo
(There was a time when this alone was the source of beauty The wild tulip was the pride of the season of springWhichever Muslim there was, the Lover of Got he wasA while ago your beloved this very Unfaithful wasMake the covenant of fealty now with some local oneMake the Ummah of the Holy Prophet a local one.)
Safah-i dahr sey baatil ko mitaya kisneNau-i insaan ko ghulami sey churaya kisneMerey kaabae ko jabeenon sey basaaya kisne Merey Qur’an ko seenon sey lagaya kisneThay to aaba wo tumharay hi magar tum kiya hoHath par hath dharay muntazir-i farda ho
(Who effaced false worship from the face of the world?Who rescued the human race from slavery?Who adorned my Ka’bah with their foreheads in Love?Who put my Qur’an to their breasts in reverence?They were surely your ancestors, but what are you?Sitting in idleness, waiting for tomorrow are you!)
Kiya kaha bahri musalman hai faqat waadai hoorShakwa beja bhi karay koi to laazim hai shaoorAdl hai faatir-i hasti ka azal sey dastoorMuslim aaeen hua kfir to milay ****-o qasoorTum men hooron ka koi chahnay wala hi naheen Jawai toor to maujood hai Moosa hi naheen
(What did you say? For the Muslims is only the promise of HouriEven if the Remonstrance be unreasonable decorum is necessaryJustice is the Creator of Existence’ custom since eternityWhen the infidel adopts Muslim ways he receives Houris and palacesNot a single one of you is longing for Houris The effulgence of Tur exists but there is no Musa.[9])
At the end of Jawab-i Shakwa the Response offers a new hope for Ummah and also provides the remedy of all diseases of the Muslims. The following 30 verses (five stanzas) are the essence of this poem:
Ummateen gulshan-i hasti men samar cheeda bhi hainAur mahroom-i samar bhi hain khizan deeda bhi hainSankron Nakhl hain kaheeda bhi’ baleeda bhi hainSankron batn-i chaman men abhi poshida bhi hainNakhl-i Islam namuna hai bromandi kaPhal hai ye sankron saddiyun ki chaman bandi ka.
(Some nations in the existence’s garden benefited from their labour areAnd some deprived from fruits and even destroyed by autumn areHundreds of trees deteriorated and hundreds flourishing areHundreds still even concealed in the bosom of the garden areThe tree of Islam a model of flourishing isThis the fruit of cons of gardening efforts is)
Pak hai gard-i watan say sar-i daman teraToo wo Yusuf hai ke har misr hai kanaan teraQafla ho na sakega kabhi veran teraGhair yek bang-i dara kuch naheen saman teraNakhl-i shamasti-o dar shola dawad resha-i toAaqibat soz bawad saya-i andesha-i to
(Your skirt is undefiled by the dust of homelandYou are the Yusuf for whom every Egypt is Kan’an[10] It will never be possible to destroy your caravanNothing except the Clarions’s Call are your chattel You are a candle like tree, it its flame’s smoke your roots are Your thoughts free from the care of the end are.)
Misl-i boo qaid haye ghunche men pareeshan hojaRakht bar dosh hawa-i chmanistaan hoja Hai tunak maya to zarrey say biyabaan hojaNaghma-i Mauj say hangaama-i toofaan hojaQuwwat-i Ishq sey her past koi balaa kardeyDhr men ism-i Muhammad sey Ujala krdey
(Like fragrance you are contained in the flower bud, become scattered Become the chattel travelling on the wings of the breeze of the rose gardenIf you are poor, changed from speck to the wilderness beFrom the melody of wave changed to tumult of the storm beWith the Love’s power elevate every low to elegance With Muhammad’s name illuminate the whole world.)
Ho na ye phool to bulbul ka tarannum bhi na hoChaman-i dhr men kalyun ka tabassum bhi na hoYe na saqi ho to phir mai bhi na ho khum bhi na hoBazm-i tawhid bhi dunya bh na ho tum bhi na hoKhema aflaak ka istada isi naam se haiNabz-i hasti taphis aamada isi nam sey hai
(If there is no flower nightingale music should also not beIn the world’s garden smile of flower buds should also not beIf there is no cup bearer, wine and decanter should also not beTawhid’s Assembly in the world and you should also not beThe system of the universe is stable by this very nameThe existence’ pulse is warm with this very name.)
Aql hai teri sipar ish a shamsheer teriMerey darvesh khilafat hai jehangir teri Ma siwallah ke lia aag hai takbeer teriToo Musalman ho to taqdir hai tadbir teriKi Muhammad se wafa toonay to ham teray hainYe jahan cheez hai kiya lauho qalam tere hain
(Intellect is your shield, Love is your swordMy dervish! Your vicegerency is world-conquering Your Takbir like fire for Godlessness isIf you are Muslim your prudence your destiny isIf you are loyal to Muhammad we are yoursThis universe is nothing the Tablet and the Pen[11] are yours.)

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@ Zia

What do you have to say about Salman Khurshid stealing of tricycles and crutches of the handicapped?

His threats to Kejriwal?

It has made me ashamed as a Muslim

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Fair analysis and spot on bottom-line.

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@amerigramma no religious book preaches hatred r un equality except brahmanism which has divided a human into castes .its seems u r from that community.

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Akbaruddin is playing the voter-grabbing game, ably supported by the BJP. The BJP wants him to be treated harshly by the law, so do the MIM itself – the losers would be the Congress, while Jagan Reddy+MIM+BJP would gain the voters. And effective policing, very fast-tracked legal procedures are the only answer to the illiterate and semi-literate populace of our country.

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This guy would next be taking up SRK’’s cause of : They call me khan!
Just because they are both Muslims! Time he took on anti-Hindu agenda of some of his communities leaders and their supporters!

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wll, he did not have any Islamism in this…where is your complaint coming from

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Zia;
After a long time, you have written a secular blog, and good one to boot it.
It hits the nail on head.
Congratulations.

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very well written…..

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Hmmm. I thought Zia was a Muslim affairs writer for TOI. Hopefully he will write an article about muslim perspective on akbarrudin Owaisi’s rousing speech calling for genocide of fellow Indians based on religion. But I doubt Sia will take that one up.

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By the way, Sia has written a tame article this time. No juice in it.

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By the way, Sia has written a tame article this time. No juice in it.

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good blog after a long time.

Proves you do have some sense… but tend to lose it due to communal reasons.

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yor sucking loser, man grow up, your hatred shows towards the people of Gujarat and NaMo, man please go and make a living in Pakistan, India does not need you.

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Every HITLER has his day. Period

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How and why did Jehadi journalist Zia Haq missed Akbarudding episode? Is the deliberate or oversight? The answer is obvious. Our media is now infilterated by terrorists pretending to be journalists.

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Last Friday, at Modi’s ritzy investor carnival, Ambani publicly professed that Modi’s birth in 1950 was an event equal in importance to Mahatma Gandhi’s in 1869. Greatness was never this small and flattery never so daring.
Zia, My child, have you forgotten, a fellow Assamese, immortal words: India is Indira and Indira is India: Grow up. intellectually, you are a pigmy. you just wear that victimhood. Can you engage with me?? I will show you the mirror.

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Zia you are acting like a Jehadi with rabid anti-Hinduism. You have no idea that Gujarat today is the largest employer in India. Every month more than 40,000 skilled and non-skilled labor force migrates to Gujarat for job opportunity from states like Bihar, UP, Rajsthan, Odisha, WB, NE states and even Maharashtra. All are welcome with open arms and live their amicably while enjoying the fruits of Modi’s Gujarat is developing every year. Modi has not declared that Gujarat is a developed state; it is still developing and has long way to go but it is NOT Somalia. It is much better managed than your model states like WB, UP, Kerala or many other states run by UPA.

Based on per capita, Gujarat state contributes the largest money in the central government in the form of Excise, Customs, Income tax and other fees which exceed rs 60,000 crores in 2010-11 and numbers increasing on daily basis. This money is used by the UPA government to susidise J&K, UP and WB states while giving less to Gujarat. This is the miracle of Modi. This is in addition to the salaries that migrants sent to their native places. Many of Gujarat statics are skewed by the constant migrant workers majority of whom are poor and do not want to spend in the state where they make money.

How many migrate to Kerala? Keralites are spread all over in search of jobs. The development starts step by step starting with peace, development of infrastructure (roads, power and skilled labor), good governance, corruption free system, willingness of indusustry to establish big units followed by meduim and small scale industries, education institutes, etc. It does not happen otherway round as Jehadis like you think. Once there is enough income to spread, people would spend on health and other social indicators.

Another point I would like to mention that there is an ANTI-MODI industry which has fudged many statistics to feed pseudo-secularist and jehadis like you. So take a chill pill and talk about OWAISI BROTHER and stop villifying Modi and Gujarat. You have been proven wrong and bigot many time before on the issue of MODI.

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Well in most of Muslim world, when Muslims had a chance to elect a government after decades of dictatorship, their choice was Islamists like Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. Is Modi worse than Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas that openly calls for genocide of Jews and second class status for non-Muslims… etc?

Would Muslims in India prefer Muslims are treated they way they treated native Hindus in Kashmir?

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Such morons will never alter their mindset, which is stuck in the 7th century. That is the time when a complete totalitarian ideology was born, so the less Mr Haq talks about totalitarianism, the better. As regards the progress, the state is making, it needs no certification from such sceptics, who peddle outdated statistics. I suggest he read Bibek Debroy’s latest treatise on Gujarat and its development story. Mr Haq, you can choose to remain in an Ostrich mode, if you wish, but the world is passing you bye.

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lets have look at Modi “ he has a big mouth on him but no Idea what he taking about he model his self on the Nazis, dose he not know the Nazi were most blood thirsty people in Europe. they murdered million and millions of Israelis, they gassed them? they started the second world war.

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Modi is a low life murderer

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no wonder they call you a muslim!!!!

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If these “fat cat tycoons had lavished the same “praise” on our beloved Italian ex-maid this jihadi nut-case would have applauded or resounded it with an acquiescing silence.
Mian, why this “thundering silence” on Owaisi’s 15 minutes of time out from the police to show your community’s strength to the coward community? We all would love to hear your “conspiracy theory” on that

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HindustanTimes is run by pakistani terrorists. This article is one of the best evidence. Just the mere tone of the article makes me puke. Keep barking and the day will soon come when you are put in place.

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MODITVA MODITVA MODITVA….AND JUSTICE FOR BHARAT MATA….THE REST, LIKE THIS “JOURNALIST” DON’T EVEN EXIST.

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The author should explain what India is paying now?… remember, India went in the way the author aspires for the past 60 yrs and achieved nothing and now, when Modi is trying to make a change, he is being compared to Hitler.

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Thanks Zia ul Haq (or whatever), I’m rooting for for Modi. Had enough of your Pakistani bro Mickey Mouse Singh.

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The grapes are so extremely sour that we have no recourse, but to resort to lies. lies amd more lies – like our Maha Mad taught us 1400 years ago.

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OK sir agreed . Gujarat is bad – most backward state – and the people there are dumb – in fact it is very very bad and most inconvenient as well as it is very dangerous to live in Gujarat. One does not know how people live in such conditions that can be compared to Uganda as compared to other states which resemble the rich Texas or California in US.

All the industrialists who come to the states are dumb and foolish and they are wasting their precious money which they got from their parents by investing in Gujarat. Unfortunately almost all the industrialists fall in this category – even Tata – who has taken over foreign companies in their country.

what a shame – you see the Gujaratis in this state live their life in darkness unlike other states in India – no electricity – no power and live in medieval times.

Very good analysis. let us all urge people to leave Gujarat.

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Last I heard, Ratan Tata, Godrej and many others who attended the summit and are singing Modi’s praises are Parsees who practice the Zoroastrian faith that was decimated in their home country of Persia by, you guessed it, Muslims. It was Hindus who welcomed them with open arms and never forced them to give up their religion. There are many, many industrious non-Muslims and Muslims like the Bohras who are benefiting from the Gujarat experiment that puts industrialization, infrastructure, development in the forefront to achieve prosperity rather than the utterly failed policy of re-distributing the economic pie through electoral maths based on caste, religion etc., without doing anything to grow it because that is beyond their capabilities. These very same Muslims would be blown to bits like the Hazaras in the land of the pure. But take it from a Muslim crab to turn it into a Hindu hate-fest in disguise. Muslim extremists have learned the art of Goebbelsian propaganda very well to use any and every method, including the pretense of “oppression” if their obsession to make their ideology dominant is thwarted like it has been in Gujarat.

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HT has in its stables horses like this author. Obviously he cannot stomach the appreciation showered on Modi by the industrial elite of India, How to denigrate and downgrade the same ? Development is not the be all and end all of lifeTHe unholy partnership of nationalism and . religious fundamentalism is what has propelled many cultures, but our author has only Nazi Germany in mind and ipso facto Modi is a Hindu HITLER!!Mind you similar idiots have in the past derided the Hindu rate of growth in India !The author wiill find it difficult to point to any Islamic regime which has developed without allowing its natural resources being exploited by the West. Poor in resources and the Islamic countries are prone to dictatorship and the richer ones are dependent upon slave labour..Clearly the desire to make Islam the central force in the world has been stymied by historical factors. Reversing them by force is one cause of terrorism which is funded by rich Islamic dictatorships.Muslims in India are a restless lot for in their case there is a nostalgic desire for times past when Islamic rule prevailed here.That the British created one Islamic state when they left, which divided itself in two, is not consolation enough as both have become failed entities. Animosity and hatred of India is the driving force in Pakistan and acquiring more living space is the motivation in Bangladesh.In the middle India is doing relatively well despite the many problems ,,some created by our neighbors is cause for heartburn, for our ‘friends’..

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On another note, I remember Indian socialists of the ’60’s and ’70’s who wanted every private industry in India to be nationalized (a policy that nearly bankrupted India in the early ’90s) holding their noses at the emerging South-East Asian economies like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong-Kong etc. as practicing screw-driver technology of just assembling things for the rich West. Today those countries have moved into the first world and India is now looking up to their story as a model for growth. Even forgetting the obvious “oh-we-poor-Muslims-are-so-oppressed-in-India-by-evil-Hindus” slant of this article, this is similar attempt to pull down anyone who is actually leading so that those who are incapable of leading but want all the fruits of leadership continue to prosper in India.

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agreed….she should ask this question from Sonia and her congress party…who has ruled this country for almost 50 years…..they had and have all the inpowers..to change this nation for better…..why ppl like Zia have problems with the concept of hindu and hindutva…this is comedy and farce in India ..when I say I am hindu and believe Hindutva is being dubbed as communal

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Not sure what prompts Shobhana Bhartiya and her joker editor _ Vir Sanvghi to allow traitors like Zia to publish her blog in “”HINDUSTAN TIMES”"…

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I was hoping Zia will follow up on the Owaisi episode this time. It was an opportune moment to denounce his hate speech in no uncertain terms- to tell us he does not believe in insulting Lord Ram or Hindus- and to make a case for why people like Owaisi should be marginalized in the Indian society. However, Zia is on his usual rant.

This is revealing, because it tell me Zia is not about better community relations. In fact people like him are more dangerous than Owaisi, because their hatred in cloaked int the sophistication of English columns and blogs.

I hope the youngsters of our country can see people like Zia for who they really are.

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When so many of our industrialists are singing praises of Narender Modi, surely Modi must have done something worthwhile to earn such accolades. My problem with Modi is regarding the way he opted for to grab power – it was a very sinister plot indeed. He sacrificed the lives of Hindu women in that train at Godhra through a mercenary mob; then, within no time (as it was all pre-planned) attacks on Muslims took place in a very organized manner. This type of large scale and wide spread murder established Narender Modi as a champion of Hindus. With the BJP in power at the state and center in 2002, every aspect of the pogrom was minutely stage-managed, with all the requisite cover-ups in place. Dawood Ibrahim does the same thing too; he is ruthless in all executions and as a businessman – legal, illegal, legimate or illegimate they are basically businesses – he is more efficient than Ambani, Tata or Birla. The issue therefore boils down to that age-old question : whether end justifies the means – that is the big moral, ethical question facing us all.

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An article in 2011 about the man who supposedly hates Muslims. I am guessing that the Bohras are persona non-grata in the eyes of their brethren who are instigating such hatred not only in the sub-continent but around the world. It just goes to prove that there is no contempt towards Muslims but it is towards those Muslims who cannot live peacefully not only amongst non-Muslims but those that they think are not Muslims in the first place:

Chief minister seeks bigger role of Bohras in Gujarat development
Published: Sunday, Feb 20, 2011, 15:30 IST
By DNA Correspondent | Place: Ahmedabad | Agency: DNA

If, ‘He came, he spoke and he conquered’ can sum up the one-and-a-half hours that he spent at the Burhani Expo, chief minister Narendra Modi did a Caesar on Saturday morning.

Members of the Dawoodi Bohra community participating in the event from across the country as well as the globe seemed very impressed with Modi after he finished his 20-minute speech. In between showering praises on spiritual leader Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb, Modi spoke at length on how the Bohra community had contributed to the state’s growth and appealed them to continue doing so.

While saying that development was the only answer to all social ills, he urged
Bohras to play a bigger role in the state’s development.

The two-day expo is a trade exhibition of Dawoodi Bohra community, the first
of its kind in the country where more than 150 exhibitors from various industries are taking part.

Modi began his speech by praising the Bohras who he said have brought a good name to Gujarat from every place they have been to. Describing Syedna Saheb as a karmasheel person the CM said that the community has been fortunate enough to get Saheb’s blessings and good wishes every year.

“Today Vibrant Gujarat Summit has become a big event but few people know that first Vibrant Gujarat Summit in 2003 had started off in Surat with Syedna Saheb’s
blessings,” Modi said.

Earlier, Saheb’s son Huzefa Saheb praised Modi for taking Gujarat on the fast track of progress. He asked the Bohras to be a part of the state’s development and that the Burhani Expo will strengthen the community links. This will serve as a platform for
Bohras to grow.

Textiles, chemicals, hardware, pharma, machine tools, construction, glass, metal and jewellery are some of the sectors which were presented at the expo.

More than 2,000 Bohra community members were rapt in attention as Modi delivered his speech, and frequently lauded the CM’s words. This, even though, most of them had to remain standing, on account of limited seating arrangement.

Modi said that Syedna Saheb’s 100th birthday (on March 25 as per Islamic calendar) was being celebrated in the state’s Golden Jubilee Year.

He said that Syedna Saheb was turning 100, and he had requested him to remain in Gujarat for his birth centenary celebrations.

The CM praised the importance Dawoodi Bohra community had laid on education. He noted that while Mahatma Gandhi established Gujarat Vidyapith in 1930, Syedna Saheb’s father had established Arabic University in Surat long before that in 1920 itself.

He praised the community for having been able to keep itself away from various ills, and attributed it to the spiritual guidance provided by Syedna Saheb. He said that the Bohras, while being open to change, had managed to retain their culture and preserve the Gujarati language.

He said the community had vigorously taken up the task of building check-dams in the state. He urged Bohra community women to educate pregnant women about the importance of proper nutrition to prevent malnutrition among them. Modi also released a souvenir of the Expo at the end of his speech.

It was announced that Burhani Foundation India would distribute 52,000 bird feeders on March 6 to protect sparrows and other small birds which were on the verge of extinction. He also took a round of the stalls showing keen interest in the businesses exhibited.

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Mia Zia Haq what the hell you mean by a MYSTERIOUS FIRE in that train in GODHRA?

you dont want to blame MUSLIM mobs for setting that train on fire in GODHRA but you have already decided HINDUS as CULPRITS in riots that followed?

you betray your bias towards your community so openly by writing like this.

i advise you to grow up MIA dont be a baby.

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Zia is a coward and always goes for low hanging fruits. Strange that a “Muslim affairs” writer could not write about the treacherous akbaruddin Owaisi story but focus on a Hindu nationalist whipping boy instead.

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no wonder you are called a muslim..zia, you epitomise what a muslim is.

1. muslims cant see the truth. truth for them is what is convenient to their religion. They can lie through their teeth without a shame all in the name of religion – al takiya.
2. muslims do not have sense of gratefulness. They do not have any sense of allegiance to the country that gave birth to ther fathers and forefathers in the past and going to feed them and sustain their future generations.
3. Patriotism is an alien concept to muslims. Muslims can never be patriots. If they are patriots they can never be muslims.

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THE BLOGGER MAY ANSWER ONLY ONE QUESTION.WHY IN ALL THE STATES RUN BY SONIA’S CONGRESS ,THERE IS NO SUCH INTREST IN INVESTING ?
RIOTS TOOK UNDER RAJIV GANDHI IN DELHI -1984,DID THIS BLOGGER EVER WROTE ON THAT,IF NOT WHY NOT?

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well …”fat cats” lavished praises…this “thin dog” lavished gaalis….

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Fantastic article in DAWN by a Pakistani Punjabi. It just details why Pakistan is a failed ideology. In fact it frankly admits that the mohajirs had just no chacne of being treated as equals. While the Bengalis were thoguht to be short, dark and Ugly.

———– to quote DAWN———–

The educational level of India’s Muslims had been generally poor, but that of the Punjabi Muslim was simply pathetic, particularly the business community and the army men had no taste for useless pursuits such as learning and intellect; wealth came as Fazl-e-Rabbi, self-confidence came from the success of the Pakistan Movement, aggressive attitudes were genetic to us as Muslims.

It has been natural for us to dismiss all our other nationalities with contempt if they disagreed or challenged us. So we evaluated our national diversity like this: Bengalis are black, small, ugly, disloyal crooks, Sindhis are lazy, hateful parasites living off our hard work, Balochis are unclean, lazy, ignorant, pagan fools whom we feed, God knows why. And well, Pathans? They are funny homosexuals and deeply jealous of our high merit. We never stopped our loud claims of everything good and right.

We lost the defining part of our identity with disgrace and shame in 1971, although we have never admitted to this day that the Bangla Pakistanis were Pakistan’s identity much more than we were. We supported an illegal and immoral massacre by our army, which was illegal because it acted under orders of an illegal government and immoral because it attacked the elected majority. We externalised our guilt instead of bowing our heads in shame; we blamed India and the world for our disgrace. Today, we are again at a similar crossroads with deeper internal chaos and greater international isolation.

We do not lose an inch of our honor if we submit to the wishes of the units that form tha

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If the present progress of Western World is due to Christianity(esp. Protestant) and future progress of India would be due to Hindutva then why Muslim countries failed even though they have declared their respective states Islamic based on Shariah only ? In Pakistan there are 20 crore Modidopplers , why they couldn’t progress ?

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Development kise kehte hai yaha Gujarat me aake dekh jao. Aur rahi baat Muslimo ki to Gujarat ke Muslims pure India me se sabse Sukhi Muslims hai. Modi Sher hai. Use PM banna hi chahiye aur ek Gujarati hone ke nate mujhe pata hai uski Governance Skill. He is a Combination of Brilliant Brain, Superb Speech & Megical Memory. I m Proud to be an Indian & I m a Proud to be Gujarati.

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