O come, all ye faithless



A close friend’s father recently passed away.

Being the only male of the house, my friend was responsible for the rites and rituals to be duly conducted after a death.

And there were several of them, all of which he explained to me in somewhat disdainful detail, after recovering from his personal grief.

After the cremation, he was made to separate the bones from the coal and ash and collect them. He had to then visit Nashik (accompanied by a strictly even number of people), to submerge the bones in a ‘holy river’.

He described this river in words I refrain from repeating for they may offend, but in short, it was a river coagulated with bones, ash, washing detergents, dead flowers, red powder, and the collective essence of thousands of devotees bathing themselves in the same water for an assured ticket to heaven.

He had to pick from the several hundred pundits, who offered their services for a price after a good deal of bargaining, to conduct a pooja in which he was told to repeat a certain practice 400 times. Why or how this number came about, was a mystery to him, but he didn’t complain. Rather this, than throw one of his father’s bones at the back of a beggar after feeding him. (This was told to him by a pundit in Mumbai, but fortunately he wasn’t made to do it by the Nashik one.)

After half a day spent there, he vowed never ever to repeat this journey, God forbid, for other deaths in the family.

On the 12th day after the funeral, the family had to conduct another pooja at home during which the youngest, unmarried girl of the house had to be accorded respect. Lacking a candidate from the family, they had to settle for the young house help. My friend said he was almost amused at the girl’s bewilderment, when an elderly aunt washed her feet and asked for the 20-year-old’s blessings.

My friend, being a conventional, suburban, almost-atheist 26-year-old, did what he was told by the maharaj and pundits, to appease his mother and grandmother. But not out of respect or conviction for the unexplained customs ascribed by his religion.

To assuage his incredulity towards his religion’s beliefs, I shared with him one of my own faith’s baffling customs.

When my grandfather passed away last year, my nani had to follow a particular mourning ritual. For four months, the widow cannot get out of the house, cannot wear coloured clothes, and at no cost can she see, meet or talk to any men, except her closest family’s male members. I’m not sure how voluntary house arrest and self-imposed exile, help women get over the grief of losing their husbands, and I don’t care to find out either way.

I can somewhat empathise why our parents’ and our grandparents’ generations adhere to their respective religions’ rituals with unflinching faith.

In their world, they don’t find the need to question or doubt what they have been told by elders and what has been done for years on end. Even when they do doubt a particularly pointless ritual, if at all, then fear of God and society, leaves these doubts unvoiced. When youngsters try to reason with them, their standard response is, “What’s the harm in just doing it?”

Yes, I can empathise, but I can’t sympathise. Yes, we may have no knowledge about our religion’s ancient mores, but not to question them, especially when they are questionable, is not something I can do.

My friend and I felt that our generation, which is mostly a shallow, unbelieving, faithless, cynical, liberal, post-modern generation, ought to discontinue with rituals that didn’t hold meaning or value to us.

We hoped that genuine emotions would suffice to deal with the loss of loved ones, and simple, modest practices would let their souls rest in peace.

We hoped that these myriad, mysterious rituals would simply die a natural death.

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  • http://hindustantimes shan

    tasneem, a few like you in both hindu and muslim community and india would be a enormously better country, In England there is a thing called secular funeral , where the vicar says few kind words about the departed about his life etc and no mention of religion, and the favourite music of the departed is played , and the whole thing is over in ten minutes. Outside there is a plaque with the name of the person on it and people can lay flowers or cards whatever, it stays like that for a fortnight and then it is removed. In this same country one Mr ghai has taken his case for an open pyre funeral upto house of lords and won. It wont be exactly like in India but the roof will be open to sky. These people like to have their cake and eat it. For more simole solution would have been to retire in India, but then again there is no national health service. I have been toying sometime with the idea of forming an institution which i want to name “secular foundation”. If we can genuinely propagate the message like arranging a secular weddding , which excises all the religious undertones and emphasises the romantic aspect . I am sure it can be designed . The same can be done for funeral . What you write about Nashik is not unique it is every where in india. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS INDIA FOR MOST PART IS VERY PRIMITIVE, and that is why you have khap panchayat and all. I think the one and only remedy is english medium education for all , this cannot be done conventionally , but by using interactive and virtual teachers(say through dedicated Tv channels). I am happy to pay for the foundation ,if you are in the same mental boat as mine, please respond and then if you guide me we can make a small start though we are five thousand miles apart. I refer you my postings in Gautam Ckhikermane blog titled Vulgarity in religion and Boobquaked in iran . I look forward to hearing from you.

    [Reply]

    Piyush Reply:

    i believe the present state of the rituals comes from misinterpretation and blindly following the practices which were set 1000 years back and obviously have been twisted and turned by some opportunists. But i believe its same pretty much everywhere. There are now a lot of people in india who opt eletrcial cremation and wash the ashes in the nearest river.

    The concept is same for all religions – ashes to ashes , dust to dust, just that opportunism know no barriers and its pretty unfortunate to note that it has also transformed into a status symbol…The no. of priests etc. etc. etc.

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  • Sandip

    Very nice article, Tanseem. I have myself grappled with the question, whether to stick to my own beliefs and refuse to participate in religious rites or whether to go according to family’s wishes. Though I tend to stick to my own beliefs, friends argue that one should rather just do these things. it does not harm me, but would make my family happy, who are too old to change their beliefs anyway. Iam still not sure which is the right thing to do.

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  • buddhu

    Parcel Post:
    Here in Canada and in my city something available is called Basic or simple atlternative funerals.
    For myself I have left the following instructions.
    Upon my death call the Simple Alternative. They come and collect the body and make arrangements to cremate and deliver the ashes to the survivors. No other ritual need be performed. I have done away with the pundits, the funeral homes, visits and showings and everything else associated with death And I am a Hindu.

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  • Amit

    There will be all kinds of people, and the number under the kind to which the author belongs is growing. The reasons are obvious. India is a country of one and a half billion who have sprang out of a few millions in a time of just five decades. Therefore the plethora of views on how to live (how to deal with deaths is a part of it). Rites and rituals are integral part of what we call Indian culture. We cannot just wish them away. If you guys are so miffed with its ways listen to your hearts but why mock those who believe. One feels sad when a poor guy has to sell land or does something worse for his dead father’s last rites. Yet after all these meaningless activities, you know he has gotten over his grief better. He is now more capable of filling the void created by the deceased. Today we do not have that kind of attachment with anybody, less so with parents (nobody to blame here, only time). So a simple paper card printed by someone else or a bunch of plastic flowers gives peace to the living who want to get over the deads at the earliest convenience.

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  • vikram

    To conduct the last rites as per Hindu traditions has unfortunately become a disgusting experience due to the horrible state of our rivers esp at the holy places where the immersion of the ashes is supposed to happen. Not to mention the crass commercial approach of the so called holy men at these places.

    but then it could be the rites of hindu or muslim or any of the other ancient religions of India we should try to understand the basic purpose behind these rites and modify them in a way to keep its sanctity. As I believe the immersion is returning the wordly bodies of our loved ones to the bosom of mother earth without polluting it any way – no puja no garbage with it. The ashes become one with the earth. The flow of the river symbolises the unbroken flow of life. sincere prayers for the departed one to bid them farewell, to help them in acheiving mukti from the worldly bonds and promising to take care of their unfinished worldy responsibilities is enough religious rites in my belief. there is no need for a pandit to say the same thing in un understandable sanskrit.

    Rites/customs are what ties us to our forefathers. We should not abandon them. In fact we should strive to follow them but in their true spirit.

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    vikram Reply:

    btw Tasneem ..good one :)

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    shah Reply:

    in islam it is legal requirment for a widow to live in seclution for four months to ascertain that weather she is pregnant or not. because property of the deceased has to be divided between legal hairs and properties of minor children has to be protected by the state or society. After four months widow can remarry.women past menopause age can be shown leniency.
    In islamic jurisprudence serving justice alone is not suffeciant, it has to appear so.

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  • bontz

    I totally agree with what Vikram has said.

    The author Tasneem says “Yes, we may have no knowledge about our religion’s ancient mores, but not to question them, especially when they are questionable, is not something I can do.”

    But I highly doubt that he made any genuine effort to question even a single one these rituals. If he had, he would have got answers like Vikram has said…
    He simply wrote this article without trying to understand anything and finishing the article by hoping that these rituals will die one day.

    All the rituals have meanings..it all depends if we as a new generation can understand that or not.

    Regarding, polluting our same earth which we are worshiping, it’s high time now that the authorities make rules and follow them with taking strict mesaures like:
    – Only ashes and bones go to the river bed. (they are actually healthy for rivers as they act like manure)
    – Removal of commercial pandits.
    – Ban the plastics.
    – Heavy fines for violating these rules.
    – Make people aware that the true rituals do not include throwing plastics and garbage in the river.

    As Tasneem described this generation, for our shallow, unbelieving, faithless, cynical, liberal, post-modern generation, I add the word CONFUSED generation, removing the words/acts of wisdom is not a solution but to follow them properly and with the understanding.

    Look what we have done to this earth in 200 years of modernisation…. wild life extinction, global warming, floods, erathquakes, tornados, tsunamis….
    The biggest question is – if we keep going with this pace, will we survive another 200 years.
    even if we do, with what quality of life?

    [Reply]

    Rachit Kaushik Reply:

    Rituals are scientific and nature centric. They were deviced to show our respect towards nature. The problem is symbolization. Conversion of practice into theory. We definitely should question it, evolve it. But first rationally analyse it.

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  • RK Singh, Gurgaon

    You are absolutely right. Religion is not for cynic, faithless and unbelievers.

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  • prashantkumar137

    All the religions suck. Hindu cremation defiles rivers and atmosphere. Muslim and Christian cremation renders vast chunks of land useless. High time to stop pandering to religions and make closed electric crematorium mandatory for all. But Ms. Holier-than-thou Tasneem, who will bell the cat? Many Hindus in the cities are now opting for the electric crematorium, but would a single person from your religion come forward and accept it for their dead ones? It’s very easy to point fingers at other religions. But your religion is the most obstinate one when it comes to any real reforms! For a homework, just float this idea with your parents or neighbours- you must be shuddering at the thought of that!

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    naro Reply:

    If you read this article carefully, you will realise that Tasneem is NOT ‘pointing fingers’ at the Hindu religion.This is one of the most neutral piece I have read so far. He/She is pointing out her/his bafflement at the sometimes strange and bizzare religious rituals of India,she even points out her wonderment of her own religion’s practice. You are unnecssarily being cynical and arguementative. You seem to be spoiling for a fight on whose religion is better/worse than the other!Let me tell you, my brother, that is a dangerous and never ending arguement that you are embarking on,it’s a total waste of time.The way I see it, every religion has it’s own merits and demerits.It is your prerogative which one you may choose to practise but it would be wise to practise the good of that religion and leave out the not so good.

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    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    I don’t want to comment on the ceremony involved after death but I would surely defy some rituals which seem unnecessary and without any logic just based on superstition and beliefs whish fail to provide any reason to conduct them….But some rituals which are very sensitive and can’t be changed just for the reason that they are very sensitive despite the fact of them being harmful….it works that way…wa can’t change them even if we wanted to.

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    shan Reply:

    @Arkita, Be bold Be brave, there is nothing to fear .

    shah Reply:

    in islam grave has to be recycled and any kind of permanant grave is illeagal.

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  • obaid

    For those who believe , no explanation is necessary…. For those who dont , no explanation will suffice

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    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    Wow

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    shan Reply:

    @Obaid you need to rephrase , for those who “beleive” no explanation is heeded, those who dont beleive is because of a lack of CREDIBLE explanation.

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    shah Reply:

    concern for Harmony with the nature and peace and justice in the society are reason behind the rituals of our forefathers who kept this world going till today but it will not last more than 200 years in the hands of modern, intelligent and worshipers of idol called money.
    Who is wise. you or your forefather.

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  • honey

    Though I am neither a teen nor even a young boy but this is my personal feeling that you can learn from everyone and from everywhere. I was watching TV show for the kids like of Mickey Mouse, in which a dog is instigating his son to chase the cat with which he was playing joyously. Astonished at the behavior and advise of his father, he inquired why I to chase the cat when she is creating no problem for me rather she is playing with me and we are enjoying a lot.

    The dog father replied that I can’t say what exactly the reason is, but this has been the tradition and our ancestors have been following it for the centuries together, to chase the cats whenever you see them. So the customs and traditions go like this from generation to generation .

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    Namita Kohli Reply:

    Tasneem,
    This surely is a piece that provokes you to sit and think, think and question, question and ask, what exactly is the meaning of so many rituals that we follow as part of the family’s customary beliefs. There are many even in present generation who like our parents and grandparents simply follow the family tradition.
    Though, I myself lie somewhere between an atheist and a strong theist, but I still believe that faith sees no reason, no questions, no doubts. If you have faith you simply have it, you necessarily need not the justification for having that faith.
    Nevrtheless, it is the kind of circumstances that the present generation has grown in, that they try and find rational logics behind everything, our generation is one of the most inquisitive lot, while our parents just accepted a lot of things as they were told by their parents. In certain things this inquisitiveness is actually a great thing. Atleast, it makes us stand against a lot of social evils and question irrelevant and meaningless beliefs.
    But at the same time, it is necessary to stick to some of the traditions to keep us connected with our roots and culture. And there isnt anything wrong in saying, “Whats the harm in just doing them” for a lot of things.

    Anyway, a great write up..

    Reach me at:
    http://discoveringmyownsoul.blogspot.com

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    shan Reply:

    Namita,What you describe as faith is very close to a psychopathic condition called obsession. What people need is deconditioning. You need spirituality and not faith, just like faith wouldn’t lead you anywhere in writing a computer programme, in fact this one branch of science(though it is not my discipline)
    I beleive needs verification intertwined into its formuation.

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    Namita Kohli Reply:

    Shan I think you took faith in a very wrong sense, I am talking about the Faith that you may have in the almighty, and at the same time it talks against the non-violent and psychopathic beliefs.. It believes in eqaulity of all religions and spreadin peace in the world, It sees GOD as one with just different names.

    shan Reply:

    @Namita , There is a better are understated word for it , it is called SPIRITUALITY.

  • Geetika

    If we were to abandon our age-old customs, there would not be much difference between us and the western world. They live life as it comes and have no rules to stick to. They are totally lacking in patience and tolerance. That is the reason every other American has a half-brother or a half-sister. The reason Indians have a low divorce rate is because they go all out to make their marriage successful which needs a lot of hard work and tolerance. Unfortunately with modernization, the new generation has lost this patience. They want all the comforts of life without much hard work. Instead of trying to understand the significance of our religious customs, we want to get rid of them because they require effort. The problem is that we have never been formally taught religion or the Hindu Vedas in school, and that is the reason we dont know the origins of our customs. The Vedas tell us the correct way to lead one’s life and that is what makes Hindu religion unique. I wish that someday it would be included in our education system.

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    shan Reply:

    @Geetika a simple question , would you have liked to have been at the time of vedas, they would be lucky to reach your teens, and if they did and got married, and had children , they would have died either during delivery, or in their infancy from mumps, chicken pox , diptheria. Subsequent to this their husband could have died from cholera or typhoid. There would be plenty of vedic chants and pure vedic way of life but wouldn’t make any difference to the misery. Also before making holier than thou comments about the west how about the divorce in Islamic society , all you need to do is utter talaq three times, apparently bangladeshis do it over the telephone from England. You would be horrified to know the greatest proponent of vedas, swami vivekananda was a great champion of divorce. According to him it is far better to divorce that sqabble and lead a unhappy life for it has severe detrimental effect on children Also the main reason of high divorce in western world is because women are equal to men , not a chattel as in india and because they all have job they know they need not live like a housemaid which most of the indian have to endure. And how about burning brides for dowry. Before sermonising others, look into the mirror.

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    Sharat Reply:

    Geetika s mad!!

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    Amit Reply:

    Shan you cannot be more wrong. If you had continued with Vedic traditions, we would not have had such miserable things. These are all products of modern ways (like paper flowers suggested by you earlier). By the way, when a kid dies, there are not much rites suggested by the Hindu religion, they are simple buried.

    Anyways this age belong to you guys till the time one large part of the society is wiped out in the name of modernity or ’sensibility’

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    shan Reply:

    @Amit, small request please practice what you preach, live a vedic life, when you get ill do not take antibiotics, do not watch deepika padukone on screen also do not use internet and computers, wishing you a happy vedic life.

    shiney Reply:

    u seem to be completely opinionated. Let me share my experience with u.
    The comment on vedic medicine smacks of ignorance and stupidity.
    I have been diagnosed with Uveitis, a form of eye infection which can lead to even loss of vision. There is NO and i repeat NO medication in ur great allopathic medicine for this condition except to drown the patient in steroids.
    I was on steroids for nearly 8months and i know the problems it leads to. After a lot of search, i found out that Ayurveda does have a way to contain this condition and i for the last 8 months i have withdrawn from steroids. You have no idea on how painful a condition it can be to sustain on steroids on a daily basis and god forbid if u happen to miss it on a particular day. Also pls understand i have gone to the best eye doctors possible and their refrain has been we dont know what caused it and all we know is u need to be on steroids and hope it goes away.
    When i started on ayurvedic medicine, the ayurvedic doctor (qualified) slowly withdrew me from steroids and put me on treatment. I have not taken any allopathic medicine for last 8 months and its my goal in life not to take it as well. For your kind information, my eye condition has shown slow improvement grudgingly acknowledged by allopathic doctors and they have no idea why as i dont take their medication anyway.
    If you dont know about your history and traditiona and dont care to understand then dont run it down. If you completely understand them and can prove they are baseless then pls do. But dont be a motor mouth for the sake of being one.
    Go and check out the ayurvedic hospitals in kerala, their services are utilised 75% by foreigners who have given up hope. I have met a lot of foreigners who are well versed in Yoga and can recite shlokas and explain them as well, unfortunately our own people dont care to do it and to top it we want to glorify our laziness as secularism or whatever other nonsense.
    How very silly to identify gadgets with Vedic life!!!! Can u define vedic life? I dont think vedas have asked people not to use gadgets or watch Deepika etc………..those are things defined by people like u, extremely immature and silly. Have u read the vedas? I have not so i wont comment on things that i dont know. Would i like to understand vedas? U bet i would.

    @ Tasneem
    Good article, but again u dont care to understand why certain things are done, its not good enuf to jump to conclusion that it should not be done because it doesnt go with ur sensibilities, thats purely glorifying ignorance. How many times have u tried to understand customs and traditions? If you have not tried to, then how can u reach a conclusion? If u dont believe it, dont do it, why do it for the sake of others and then say i was forced to do it? Just dont do it, rather than look for excuses. If you do, then do it with faith and faith as they say can move mountains.

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    shan Reply:

    Sorry for your predicament with uveitis, but are you seriously thinking some day somebody will decipher vedas and hey presto , a cure of uveitits is found , or more plausibly more research into the cell signaling and immune reaction will lead to a lasting cure for your condition. If you were born in vedic times you would have been lucky to reach your teens , wont have scope for devoloping uveitis.

    shiney Reply:

    ur postings reflect ur ignorance. For ur kind information, the best remedies for uveitis is through acupuncture, ayurveda, homeopathy and last is allopathy.
    What modern world today needs is holistic medicine drawing from various therapies and not running down alternate therapies simply because we dont care to understand them.
    Do visit some ayurvedic hospitals and u will meet a lot of foreigners who have been beneficiaries of ur great allopathic modern medicine with no hope and have achieved significant results with ayurveda.
    I am keen to understand how do u know people would not get into their teens during Vedic times? If thats the case mankind by now should have been wiped out. Height of ignorant rantings.

    MissBigThinker Reply:

    Dear Geetika,

    You said: If we were to abandon our age-old customs, there would not be much difference between us and the western world.

    Why do people especially Indian always feel the need to point out that the Western people are corrupt instead of giving your point on why our customs are good? So its do what your grandparents asked you to do without asking why lest become a corrupt Westener. What are we the Flinstones? Its not bad to ask for a genuine explanation on the customs. They were created thousands of years ago and mostly likely if you think logically you can do without some.

    Your say: They live life as it comes and have no rules to stick to. They are totally lacking in patience and tolerance. That is the reason every other American has a half-brother or a half-sister.

    There you go insulting the Westerners (this time Americans) to prove that we need to follow our customs. Is this necessary?

    Your say: The reason Indians have a low divorce rate is because they go all out to make their marriage successful which needs a lot of hard work and tolerance.

    Many Indian wifes are beaten to almost death, many Indian husband suffer humiliation in confinements of the walls. But marriage goes on for …….family acceptance, family honour. Hard work or tolerance is ****. Please do keep up with times.

    Your say: Unfortunately with modernization, the new generation has lost this patience. They want all the comforts of life without much hard work.

    Asking why I need to pay thousands of rupees for the funeral prayer conducted by the priest instead of just praying by myself and releasing the ash of a loved one in the river is not sign of impatience. It is not laziness if I ask why I need to go to Ganges to release the ash when there is a river running past my house.

    Your say: Instead of trying to understand the significance of our religious customs, we want to get rid of them because they require effort.

    People are plain fed up with being asked to ‘just follow’. You don’t want to sit in front of a fire pit hearing mantras that you don’t understand because you just have to do it. You want to know why. And it is the duty of the elders or the religious to explain. But how come you never said that they don’t have the patience to nurture this knowledge into the young people?

    1000 years ago if the village shaman told you to cut of your finger as a cure, you most likely would have done it without questioning. That was the way it was. You don’t question your elders, priests or medicine man. You accept it that they are all knowing. But if that happens today, you are very likely to ask the doctor 101 questions, get a second opinion and only after getting a valid answer decide to remove or not to remove your finger.

    Why isn’t that evolution applicable to religion?

    [Reply]

    Vwake Reply:

    @ Geetika- couldn’t resist replying to your comment.
    The Vedas or Hinduism might be the best things in the world. They might be. But maybe what they wanted to teach and pass on(well this is a personal opinion) was the values not the symbolic interpretations. As the writer wrote in the blog about her grandmother-

    Was it necessary to give her that treatment? Wasn’t she already broken down and sad because of the huge loss she just had? Was it necessary on HER part to go under a house arrest to show the world how big her loss was? No.

    Though it(the treatment) may all be right. Yeah it might be true; 100% true. Maybe GOD himself said this in someone’s ear. But if he did so, HE MUST HAVE HAD A REASON FOR IT just like there is a reason for everything else in this world(it may not have been discovered yet).
    And if there is a reason then i don’t think there is anything wrong if I or anyone else wants to know it.

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    Missing Reply:

    I am surprised everybody is trying to be a moden person by finding faults with Geetika. Did anybody really think how many wives got beaten by husbands, how many widows got burnt etc? Do you guys even have statistics to prove the above said practices alone are cause of low divorce rates? out of millions of marriages, wife beaters and widow burners are a big chunk of cases that are pulling the divorce rates down? Get real people. Don’t go by cliches..

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  • shan

    @Bontz and Geetika, Both of you have posted an utter **** and profoundly reactionary piece of opinion. It is a complete waste of time trying to look for hidden meaning and significance in all the ritual, because there is none. Given the choice would you like to have been born at the time of manusamhita, or during the time of hadith. You would be lucky to reach your puberty. Before the oil infant mortality was around fifty per hundreed in saudi arabia after oil(read ushering in of modern scientific age it dropped to five per thousand. By the same token should muslims look for justification in the saying of Quoran about b the angels being unhappy wife the wife if she refuses sex, or the hindus should support sati , and untouchability, there is a easy enough solution those whose who strongly feel about it please move to Nepal , a hindu country and saudi if you are a muslim , are spare us the sinners to live our rotten life.

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    shiney Reply:

    You are a complete joker, u want to condemn everything without questioning. Who is supporting Sati? All that people are trying to state is question before u junk anything. But seems like you are more happy being a dictator, may be u should shift to China then rather than bother others with your trash.

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    shan Reply:

    Then perhaps you should change to submission religion and islam, and move to saudi , where there is no questioning only submission.

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    shiney Reply:

    questioning things = submission?? Pls get a hold on ur english.

  • Ziauddin Shafi

    If I may try to explain the Islamic requirement of a widow waiting out a period of 4 months, it would be thus:
    1) In order to confirm that the widow is not pregnant and carrying the baby of her deceased husband, it is stipulated that a period of 4 months be allowed to elapse. Therefore she is not supposed to meet with any stranger so as to make that there is no possibility of her getting into a sexual relationship. It would be confirmed that the widow is not pregnant with deceased husband’s off-spring. There were no pregnancy days then – and neither a DNA test – so waiting out was the only option available.
    2) As a mark of respect and mourning for the deceased husband, getting to terms with the changed scenario and preparing oneself mentally for the challenges ahead, such a period is recommended to be seen through.
    3) After the 4 months period, the widow is now ready to re-marry – in Islam this right of re-marriage had been given to women since the last 1400 years.
    4) It is only in our Indian context that widow re-marriage, or for that matter even the first marriage of a girl, poses so many problems.

    [Reply]

    Ziauddin Shafi Reply:

    f I may try to explain the Islamic requirement of a widow waiting out a period of 4 months, it would be thus:
    1) In order to confirm that the widow is not pregnant and carrying the baby of her deceased husband, it is stipulated that a period of 4 months be allowed to elapse. Therefore she is not supposed to meet with any stranger so as to make sure that there is no possibility of her getting into a sexual relationship. It would be confirmed that the widow is not pregnant with deceased husband’s off-spring; There were no pregnancy tests then – and neither a DNA test – so waiting out was the only option available.
    2) As a mark of respect and mourning for the deceased husband, getting to terms with the changed scenario and preparing oneself mentally for the challenges ahead, such a period is recommended to be seen through.
    3) After the 4 months period, the widow is now ready to re-marry – in Islam this right of re-marriage had been given to women since the last 1400 years.
    4) It is only in our Indian context that widow re-marriage, or for that matter even the first marriage of a girl, poses so many problems.

    [Reply]

    shan Reply:

    @ Ziauddin Shafi, Before you get too carried away , let me inform you waiting for her next menstrual period (at most 30-35days would suffice) would let the penny drop, in other words know whether she is pregnant. .
    Also that they have allowed the women to remarry may be highly commendable , there are one thousand and one strictures(figuratively speaking) that demean women. How about ” angels will be unhappy with the wife through the night if she refuses sex, or it is okay to gently beat your wife if she disobeys, or the witness of a women is equal to witness of two men imbeciles, or something thereof. Why cant we accept that they were all primitive tribal people and that applies to every country of the earth till the advent of modern science and rationality.Also you should not be afraid to say it is only hindu context and not indian context that widow marriage is a problem. Then again Islam may have small role to play. After the colonisation by foreign invaders hindu society completely withdrew and in that closed society(a bit like modern day saudi and iran) the brahmins (raw sewage of hell) completely twisted everything to their advantage. Otherwise if you think back how come this country produced batsayana and kamasutra , and all the sculpture in konarak and khajuraho celebrating the carnal union of man and woman(which tagore described as poetry of love inscribed on stone has even women in a commandeering position. Also how could you have had Khana the great women astronomer.

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    Arjita Gupta Reply:

    I completely agree with Shan. People should have some concrete logic behind customs

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  • Alok

    Fantastic article.

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  • http://thegoofysufi.blogspot.com Amit Julka

    Excellent article…I really liked the fact that you didnt mention the name either of the religions.Keep up the good work!

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  • SeekingMoksh

    nicely written Tasneem…

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  • KJSS

    Hey Tasneem, I always enjoyed reading blog entries coming from 1/4th of you.

    When are you going to make it complete–???

    sometime I wonder how it will be like reading those articles coming from, first the remaining 3/4th of you and the from the whole of you??????

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  • Anusha

    Hey Tasneem
    I know what you mean, when my father passed away recently, we did not do 90% of the rituals that are demanded. I believe firmly that if a person has done good all their lives , you don’t need to try and bribe god with a zillion rituals to try and get the spirit a place in heaven/ freedom from rebirth.

    I strongly believe that corruption stops at god.

    But we are so used to bribing our ways for everything, that we don’t even stop at god.

    Most people put up a big shindig in the hopes that their loved one will be promised a place in heaven, not realizing that it is more important to live a good life, doing good deeds and helping people when you are alive……….. rather then having to rely on other people to try and get your soul a place in eternity.

    And lastly grief is a very personal feeling, one that doesn’t have to be put on show with howling and crying. And everyone should have respect for others way of grieving. Its amazing how many people think that you are a hard hearted person if you don’t put up the mother of all shows with wailing and pity! Pathetic!

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    shan Reply:

    Anusha, you are every bit right, it is a sad reflection of the hindu society which as you know is pretty primitive. As much as one denies the fact is after the darkness of Islamic rule and brahminical tyranny , the british brought the ray of modern civilization , which itself is a byproduct of the renaissance . There was a hindi film named RUDALI starring Dimple kapadia, The film was based on a story by the bengali author Mahashweta Devi. There is a place in UP where there is/was a custom to hire group of women to just cry and wail when somebody has passed away.Only education , better job opertunity will one day remove all these vestiges of a primitive culture.

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  • http://ADifferentQuill.com Sanket

    When I die I want to be dealt with in the most ecological way possible after all the useful organs of my body are given to someone else. Then I’d have everyone drink margaritas on the house and go on with their lives.

    Amen!

    – Sanket

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  • http://skd;sdk.com indian

    yes there is flaws in the present relegious procedure. But it doesn’t mean that complete procedure is wrong.

    For Example :
    I have a computer. I don’t know how much many parts it have, what is software and hard ware i don’t know. but know its works but some times my system reset or have some flaw but it doesn’t mean that system is useless.

    Simlary our relegious rituals are there.

    There is question : how can one justyify that system is working???
    Answer: if you see the world knowlege base, our vedas is only which says about modern concepts like:qunatam physics, speed of light, Ayuveds gives compelted details of body structure, Yoga a complete healing formula, we treat tress like pipal and tulsi as god (they release O2 both in day and night), Planetry system knowledge, calulation of time, language concept, maths(European learn from Arab and Arab lear it from indian), Architcure, etc this are some exaples we get after our country is under outsiders for nearly 1000 years which have destroyed our culture and knowlega base. Still we have some thing to show and that to is huge.

    So tell me how can our rituala be base less. This from knowledge point of View

    From Wealth point we are the richest country till the English have arived to our country.
    before that for 500 years we are looted.
    Still are called golden bird.

    We as a relegion is surviving from more than 5000 years which is very rear in the complete world.
    people trace there roots to 5000 years back. So its itself proves our relegion ritulas are working.
    yes they required modification but with certain persentage.

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    shan Reply:

    @Indian, what you describe is known in medical parlance as “delusion of granduer”. Antibiotics, vaccine, electricity, electric bulb, car, aeroplane none of these game changing discoveries including the very computer which you are so attached to , NONE OF THEM HAS ITS ROOTS IN HINDU SCRIPTURE. So get real, get rational.

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    SM Reply:

    @Shan,
    Where has Indian mentioned about antibiotics/electricity/car etc. in his comment? Why are you putting your own agenda in his writings? Also, what about the ones he has mentioned? If you do not know about the roots of many things in Hindu scriptures (a small part of which survived after Islamic invasions), then why don’t you try to find out instead of ranting here? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    Probably, you will be willing to believe those when they are dished out by Western researchers, but not when your own fellow Indians try to educate others about their cultural heritage.

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  • Sumit jain

    I dont know what my say on this………..but i like the essense of the article….good??!!

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  • Manoj

    Certainly those rituals which does not hold good / true in current times should not be followed neither we should entertain people who commercialise these…

    But it would be worth the effort, trying finding out thought / logic behind these rituals…..
    At times its fun too, to know why it is followed !!! Certainly, there was some thought / logic which hold good at that time owing to knowledge people had then….

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  • http://- Rajeev

    Tasneem,
    Are you willing to marry a non-muslim? Are you willing to convert?

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  • http://hindustantime hari mohan

    I have gone through the entire comment&reply.one very simple question is any retiual of death and birth differ from area toarea.A Family of any hindu cast living in asmall vill.The entire family have very small circle of persones, a family living in teh. area and like wise it increase.the same way,level of edu.money ,facility and socity changed.in INDIA some arehaving jet leg problems.railway res.pro. while in NAGALAND 95% population has not seen the train.even when they call u ,u have come from india.unawareness is basic cause.certain things may becorrect in past but at this junction it may be not applicable but pointing a finger on any pateculer cast or religon is not a healthy prac.appropriateetual according to place and time can be done but it is not essentialat every place &time.so far vedic knowedleg concered it is differenet issue. I do not wish write here but it worth mentioning who goes for our HERO cremation in battle-field.think of it.noparents.no pandit no mullah, no father.dont duck ur face.u just leave them there to rot.

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  • MissBigThinker

    Tasneem,

    This is a good article. Its good to know that unlike what most elders like to think, the young aren’t wasting or rotting their brains but do actually think and contemplate about the reality of life.

    In my opinion all the religious rituals etc were created for some reason. Some of it could be real valid and worth whilst some are just meaningless. So before you and your generations to come plain discard them, I would like to suggest that you do try to find out the meaning the rituals hold. If it is good and worthy I ask that you and your generation continue it.

    To me rituals about the deceased are more for the living rather than the dead. Meaning, it would be easier on my emotion if I gave my loved one a funeral no matter how simply it is rather than just finding the most effective way to dispose the body. The body was how I saw that soul and it would definitely help me to move on if I had at least some sort of pray done to appease my conscience that I did held that shell that held the soul I loved in respect.

    Well this is my two cents.

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  • sam

    Kashmir: Muslims pressure Sikhs to convert or leave

    It is a long-standing practice in Islamic warfare to invite the targeted population to convert before attacking. Indeed, it goes back to Muhammad himself:

    “When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them….” (Sahih Muslim 19.4294)

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  • Akalpita

    Hi Tasneem,

    A good article. I agree with you on most part. And yes, some of the rituals look very meaningless nevertheless they are there for people who want to perform them.

    I seriously think if someone wants to perform any ritual he/she should not be questioned or made fun of. And likewise, if someone’s conscious doesn’t allow her to do something she doesn’t believe in it should be totally upto the person.
    It should be guarded as personal matter and not be advised upon.

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  • Vinay

    Many times, one will not be able to question elders during grieving times. But question ability can be present in other times as well. How many formalities does a marriage have, which one doesn’t understand? What about the lavishness, which is increasing day by day? Younger generation hardly rises questions (in fact doesn’t mind, contributing more on the lavishness). Then asking for reasoning only during death times, looks hypocritical to me.

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  • Mayank Dixit

    @:Some questions do not have answer in this world/life.No body have seen god but most of us pray to god.why?? because we have been told by our parents whom we should pray for? Now why to pray ? so answer is ,it soothes your soul when your mind doesnt works.

    All of things described above does not have explanation, but what i feel if something works for u, but you do not know how it worked, then do not consider them as a mere coincedence. some of the things in our life we should do make someone happy- even by following rituals(If you are not facing any problem in doing the same then why cant we give some time of our life to other just following soem rituals .

    So what i feel there is lot more in everyones life to concentrate on rather than discussing questioning on doing things which have been told by our parents.We younger guys of mordern society always try to be judgemental even we do not know the basics.
    Rather go and help some needy ones rather than making fun of rituals.

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  • aij

    All the religions had rituals which were reason based but since business interest of so called preachers,pundits and maulvis they made rituals for their own benifit.

    As far as the isolation of the widow for 4 months in islam is concerned it is to safeguard her from social apathy in case she is pregnant at the time her husband dies.So that society may not cast their blame on her for having an un holy affair after death of husband.

    All rites and rituals have a reasonably reason exist provided we are able to interpert it corrrectly.

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  • http://versenprose.blogspot.com/ Tanushree De

    there can be no end to this debate as the believer will believe and the faithless will be…well….faithless. But i think that people in vedic times were not stupid to juts invent certain customs on their whim…the customs had a purpose back then but many of them are obsolete and must be done away with now…with the digital get that we are living in, there is room for evolving, innovating and give birth to new ideas for the future generations….embrace what’s required in today’s times but be the change that will build a better tomorrow rather than go out and crib..

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  • http://www.hotmail.com SHAHZAD

    Kudos to you Tasneem , for bringing up issues which normally being kept in our cupboard, but come out of bag on those occasions to our bewilderment , which we watch helplessly, support passively and may be will be passing off to our gennext when time will come. Perhaps these ritual are thousands years old, might have astonished in the every geneartions and no one dared to talk about he uselessness and the barbaric manner its being replayed. Thanks a lot for putting some food for thoughts to HT readers.

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  • Anurag

    Well, I don’t in anyway feel that our generation has turned shallow. Not following certain rituals which do not hold meaning to us or questioning their purpose is different from being shallow. However, what you have stated in the post is something that I completely can relate with. I am an atheist and a strong questioner, and believe that it should be one’s choice to follow a particular ritual or tradition or not and not be followed just because the earlier generations have. I know this is case of losing our intangible culture, but I personally oppose going against your personal choices and freedom just to ensure that it survives.

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  • http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/down-a-quarter/2010/05/12/o-come-all-ye-faithless/#respond Hindustantimes

    I am read this artical..am very realizing….now a days people no sharing own problums………….
    ________________

    MOUNIKA

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  • http://www.rediff.com hindusthan times

    Nice article thanks for sharing.
    ————–
    Manisha

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  • Brian

    Indians have forgotten even the heroes of the Kargil war. What hope do WWII veterans have?

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  • http://twitter.com/AapChutiyeHain Aap Chutiye Hain

    The Old will die and so will their rituals which don’t make sense to the generation which has the power. And the newborns will grow up thinking of us as the fucked up generation. Time is probably the most serene concept ever devised.

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