Posted by Hindustan Times on Friday, July 23, 2010 at 6:41 pm Filed under Uncategorized · Tagged 26/11, Chidambaram, hindustan times, India, news, Pakistan, Rehman Malik, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, SM Krishna, Terrorism, UPA, World
nice cartoon … in the wrong court …
Poor political management is just a part of the story. The viciousness of the opposition has caught the Congress off guard. The Nationlists have suddenly turned to federalists. Moreover, leading two ambitious ladies on an unknown garden path is no big deal. They are tasting power after a long time. We see another Rath yatra like divisive game plan. If BJP were in power, they would have termed the opposition as Anti-National by now.
“Math ro maata lal tere bahutere
congress party ka kaam aaye to bada bhagya hai unka
math ro maata lal tere bahutere”
Of the questions you ask the following is the only one I feel I am able to answer.
6. What the hell do you guys want? That a community is locked up in a zoo- like a tourist attraction – and the political parties like the Congress periodically throw bananas and coins at them?
I am so, so upset.. not least because this unity in diversity bullshit that is trotted out to justify this drivel.
The above is the only item in your post which could vaguely be attributed to me. Your question is, more radiant in heat than it is brighter in light, totally betrays your narrow political view and again rehearses your passionate anti-congress stance.
It is based upon this un-sustainable notion that the Congress and Congress alone indulges in communal politics.
It is regrettable that Congress has lately become some-what communal in its outlook, but contrast that with the BJP, which is absolutely nothing if it is not a COMMUNAL Party. So my friend, in your Zoo, who is incarcerated and who is the tourist. Bananas delivered by a RATH to animals in the Safari Park, are still only bananas and those who eat them are just as dependant on hand-outs as their caged cousins are. If you follow my extension of your metaphor.
Assimilation and homogenisation of Indian society is a part of the Hinduatva project, which has been ruining secular India with its fits and starts. Anyone can accept OTHERS, when they start to look like themselves and behave like them, the joy is to let a Black Man be a Black Man even if he is from the Chiago Projects, rather than attempt to make an Uncle Tom out of him. Satchmo never overcame this stigma that got attached to him during segregated days in New Orleans.
So in case there is any doubt, I TOTALLY agree with Ram Autar that assimilation creates inequalities some of which are hereditary. Jews and Blacks and Indians abroad are never REALLY assimilated; their prosperity is entirely dependent upon the host community’s ability to create national Unity without destroying cultural and social diversity. Enoch Powell’s rivers of blood never came about because UK adapted to Asians among them.
vive le difference
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:55 am
given how fraught the nerves are normally on this blog, I am glad my monkeys and bananas comment was treated for the metaphor that it was and no one tried to blow it up into a simile
~~~ FUNNY THINGS I LEARNT TODAY ~~~ ~~~
I guess you cant teach an old dog new tricks. So I dont blame Ravi and Engrich for what they say.
But a new dog. like me. can certainly learn everyday. And what I learnt today will certainly add to my repertoire of jokes for regaling friends in Alumnii meets, squash courts and business meetings .
a) Lesson No 1 : Engrich’s analysis of the Indian cricket team being a brahmincal and zionist conspiracy was a real hoot !! Wah Engrich Wah !!
This is just so original that it almost equalled his theory of Salman Khan rescuing Aishwariya thru an affair from caste oppression and supposedly his theory of Marlyn Monroe being seduced by John Kennedy under a zionist brhmns plot!
b) Lesson No 2: Ravi’s theory of the Indian government sanctioning a pill to eliminate Muslims and then Dalits and then OBC’s !! A real real guppodi, funny tale !
Thx Ravi, I have never heard of a bigger conspiracy theory !
Both you guys must be the Laural ane Hardy of conspiracy theories !! More power to your bizarre imagination!!
You really do keep us entertained !!
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
We need to have these two on this blog.
Without them, we would have to burden Mohan everyday for the jokes.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Thanks Ishwar for reminding me !!
We surely need a mosquito to remind us to take precaution against dengue !
I am surprised about the way you have discerned the postings out here.
Let me start with Engrich – what is he saying here ?
“why u want assimilation.assimilation means slavery.unity in diversity is tolerance.but u people call ur spiritual fascism as non-voilence.u have to accept that we are different but on many issues like making india strong we are one.”
The “we” here you allude to and the “we” as I read in his / her post are at variance.
IMO, the “we” is all of us that constitutes the whole of India. My supporting argument is from this particular line – ” we are different but on many issues like making india strong we are one” . Do you really see this as a “exclusionist we” ? If so, how ?
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
why are you surprised?
IMO, U shd ROFL
And one another thing, this is for the folks out here who will rather feel comforted in branding me as defending Engrich – if you can’t or don’t understand dissent stay in your hell holes and in the comfort zones you were born and brought up in. Debating adversarial postions based on “assumed labels” hardly constitutes debate.
p.s. for Ashish : Not directed towards you.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
if it is directed at me… kindly remember that I have appreciated your luv for desi porn
But more seriously speakign Mahesh, dont you think by giving equal weightage to Engrich or similar conspiracy thoerists, we end up changing the defination fo the centre and shifting the goal post accordiningly?
For example his theory on Salman Khan rescuing Aishwariya Rai from caste oppression and Abhshishek and Amitabh plotting to get her back into oppression under a zionist brhmnst plot. In case somebody were to write a biography of Salman, Abhsihek or Amitabh, should he consider this as stuff worth debating and writing about?
I am raising this because I see in national life and as a nation we are unable to take any decision or move ahead becasue of our fear of hurting the Engriches of this world. Say the Afzal guru or Kasab hanging; Or even in getting strong anti corruption laws.
It is all noise with idiots raising the pitch so high that no action can ever be taken.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
If you have read my response to Ashish you should understand the context of discussion. Beyond those what Engrich or anybody else wrote earlier doesn’t matter for me.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
I am more than aware of the context of the discussion as I had intiated it in the last blog and this was cut and pasted out herre by Ashish. If you scroll above to Ashish’s posting, you will see my name at the end.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
if you like the philosophy of engrich and his buddy, the fake Ravi and their support to Islamic terrror, take a first class ticket to their hell hole, Muridke and join the training camp, which, I am told, will be inaugurated by no less a hero than Hafiz Saeed himself.
Mahesh this is directed only at you.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
See my response to Vijay Kumar below.
BTW, how are your “bauddhiks” coming up these days ?
Any luck with communalising Karnataka on Gujarat lines ?
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:35 pm
I think you need to give an opinion on whether asking for propotional representation on religious lines is communlaising or is it your defination of secularism.
And when Jinnah asked for seperate electorate on religious lines — was it communalism…?
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
After the pasting you got in Mumbai, you should seriously think of the eclipse of the congress party rather than worry about Karnataka and Gujarat, which are firmly in our grasp, thanks to pseudos like you.
I tend to agree with you , mostly. Incidentally as far as federal structure goes, we are probably nowhere near the fault-lines when it comes to developmental finances. I mean, we still don’t see states competing with each other in running deficits for “local development”. The day that starts happening we will seeing the real “party”.
“WE” (in capital, pl.note) are all of us.
WE want and demand all these Rizwaans, Parvezes, Shoebs, Mirzas be expelled from our community.
WE demand a suitable monument be constructed for our leader Osama Bin Laaden.
All zionst, brhmnst, forward castes be castrated.
WE demand 35.75% reservation purely on religious grounds.
we (in small letters, engrich+ fake Ravi, pl.note) should be respected for our religion, our scholarship and our wit and humour.
we should also get due credit for our long, interesting cut-and-paste jobs.
aayi baat samajh mein?
I particularly liked the banana part, engrich and the Rape man enclosed in one cage and school children feeding them with bananas.
I wish engrich, the ram autar of yore, had quit when Vinod Sharma threw him out.
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
You hounded him
what is the length of your beard?
New game on West Asian chessboard
Chinmaya R. Gharekhan
(The writer served as India’s special envoy for the Middle East and is a former U.N. Under Secretary General).
For India, whose stakes are high not just in Syria but the entire region, the time has come to demonstrate a new form of non-alignment, between Saudi Arabia and Iran
A Malayalee cannot be a bengalee—-engrich
A Muslim from Istambul to Indonesia is the same, same to same–engrich
You seconded Ram Autar’s treatise, but when asked to defend it, fell back on BJP bashing.
And, missed the thrust of my argument- their is a vested interest in keeping the poor in poverty and the Muslims backward. Because if the poor turned into bourgeoisie and the Muslims joined the mainstream, they would not spare the hour of the day for Congress and the cultural mafia it sponsors.
The point is not comparative communalism- the point is which one harms more.
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
Yes I seconded Ram Autar’s statement and still do. I defended it in some detail when Mohan asked me to.
Not sure if you read that thread or not.
I fall back to BJP bashing less often than you rise to now predictable Congress Bashing.
If you think that my response was nothing more than BJP bashing then I am **** sure that you have not read it.
I am of the opinion that BJP’s Communal stance is more harmful to secular India and stated it as much in my response.
I am not an assimilationist
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Yes you tried to defend Enrich’s statement and in process taught me a new meaning
of assimilation and to further prove your point you went back to the practices of Hinduism of centuries ago. Were you really able to defend yourself ?
By the way I have googled and tried to find the meaning of assimilation which you taught. I am still trying. I will let you know if and when I succeed.
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
I illustrated an example of assimilation process by citing how Gujjars were brought into the Hindu fold. I see nothing wrong with that.
I subsequently did say that while assimilation is no longer a contemporary practice, the inequalities it created have persisted, despite all the advancements you have quoted.
Now you are within your right to say that my defence for you was unsatisfactory, but from my POV I provided as robust a defence as I am able to.
engrich Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
dear ashish muslim votes are going to regional parties.cpm proved to be worst than congress.economic situation of muslims declined during cpm rule.
nandigram land was of muslims.i am ashamed to say this as i was secratry of student wing of janwadi naujawan sabha.a staunch supporter of comrade jyoti basu.
AshishC Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
I hope Mamata’s rule is kinder to you- not substantially- that is too much to hope for from a government bankrupt in resources and ideas, but at least in being “demonstrably” pro-Muslim.
I am an unabashed capitalist- so, much of what CPM does or says, cuts no ice with me.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Ashish (and RAvi)
I m going to sleep. But wanted to put a few words on the exchange.
Ashish, u r right- Ravi is twisting your comment on thee xchhange between Ehgrichs rabid hate mongering and Ravi’s “well said, Ram Autar” comment.
Rvi’s bringing in of blacks/whites integartion, separate identities vs assimilation etc do not make any sense. Blacks and whites will never be “integrated” or assimilated in US because they are two different races. A bboy has to fall in love with a girl ; it simply is out of trhe realm that a white boy will marry a black girl–it happens, but it is an outlier.
But there cannot be a separate Muslim India or Christian india or Hindu india.. because all are same at the original root.. Muslims in India (and everywhere else) have been barking on the wrong tree — Here in Kerala, one can see a lot of Vijay Mathew, Sandhya George, Anil Joseph…. I am yet to see a Vijay Abdulla or Anil Muhamed… Little things….
We have seen the unraveling in the west as it relates to Muslim separation (or exclusivity).. Tolerant societies are suddenly asking whether the so aclled “multiculturalism” “unitry in diversity” etc is worth the paper it is written on – David Cameron’s speech in Feb of last year about multiculturalism, how the coddling of Muslims has not worked etc is one example. Angela markel had similar opinion. And Thilo Sarazzin, a liberal ex governor of the Bundens bank in his book ” Abolishing Germany– How we are putting our country in jeopardy” articulated the same issue.. plus many more..
Obviously, in those countries, the issue was of immigration, or immigration of one particular group.
Nobody immigrated to India . The brown people have all the same roots — so this whole nonsense of unity in diversity cra— does not make any sense — Congress by its constant coddling of Muslims that theya re different, that others will destroy them etc have created mental ghettoes in them.
Ravis equivocation of “”BJP is also communal” is nonsensical too.. Here in Kerala , 90% of Muslims belong to Muslim League, a party that is an election partner of Congress.. And the Muslim “party” is nothing to do with a BJP harassment — there is no BJP here —
Congress leaders of yesteryears denied Indians economic progress. Congress leaders of today are denying Muslims both economic opportunities as well as emotional ownership of their country of birth.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Very well said.
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
The gap in our thinking is wider than the Grand Canyon.
I hope you will excuse me if I pass on furthering this discussion.
AshishC Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
“Congress leaders of today are denying Muslims both economic opportunities as well as emotional ownership of their country of birth. ”
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:01 am
congress was the A team of indian brhmnst.under sonia jee it has changed.now they re for upliftment of poors of india.
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:25 am
Good, so you are in safe hands.. all the very best.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:28 am
Haath sirf safe nahi hone chahiye unka saaf hona bhi zaroori hai.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 1:21 am
gr8 line Gopi! I am going to quote it often.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:57 am
communal” is nonsensical too.. Here in Kerala , 90% of Muslims belong to Muslim League
gopi again u are bluffing like anyother rss man.bjp is political face of voilent fascist rss while muslim league is equivalent NAIR SERVICE SOCIETY.muslim league in kerala is to uplift muslims economically and educationally.
I am sure you have come across this “forensic linguistics” phenomenon here before. I myself have been the victim of mis-interpretation of words such as “we and us”.
The real issue here is simple. If one dislikes Engrich then any excuse can be used to destroy/hound him. B V Shenoy has previously led a campaign against him.
If one is tolerant (I consider Ashish to be very tolerant) then such sloppy drafting is generously interpreted.
Let us not forget, English is a second language for ALL of us.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 6:14 am
Nirad Babu has said in the very first post in this blog that Vinod Sharma is not a well-read man.
You are now claiming that, in addition, he is an idiot also, because you are saying that ‘B.V.Shenoy led a campaign against engrich and Vinod Sharma simply got hit by the one-man internet campaign’.
What a preposterous claim!
Ravi Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:50 am
That is precisely what I am saying.
You led the campaign and YOU hounded him out.
do please also ask Engrich, okay I will-
since “we” is to be “the whole diverse Indian society” then who is “u” as in “u people call ur spiritual fascism as non-violence”?
aha, so now it is ‘English is a second language to all of us”? Surely, we can find better face-savers?
As an aside, if English is your second language, which is your first? Seriously..
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
Spoken Punjabi is my mother tongue (unless you count yourself among those who doubt my assertion that I am a Mona Sikh), however I am secondary school level Hindi qualified, self-taught in Ghazal Urdu (filmy).
I cannot write Gurmukhi, as I did not attend a school in Punjab. As you know very well that I went to the Air Force Central School, when it was located at the Wellington Camp in race-course.
I am also aware that you know when RajeevS and Raju Kurien, etc labelled me to be Muslim on strength of nothing more than a misuse of the word “we”. It was indeed misinterpreted because it provided a ready-made bullet which could be easily dispatched in my direction.
AshishC Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Now, Ravi, chill…
Mother tongue need not be your first language, right? Are you really as fluent (lyrical) in Punjabi? All things considered, English is your first language, isn;t it?
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
If by that you mean.
I am more proficient in English when dealing with Technical as well as Sociological concepts. Then the answer is YES.
If you mean tears would effortlessly flow down my cheek when I listen to an English song then the answer is NO.
Formal communications in English, idle chit chat with my family in India in Punjabi.
Periodic reading of Eid Gah by Munshi Prem Chand in Hindi.
A court has sentenced a Kuwaiti couple to death for beating and then murdering their Filipina domestic helper, newspapers in the Gulf state reported on Monday.
The criminal court found the disabled husband and his wife guilty of “premeditated murder” after throwing the maid from their car and driving over her, Al-Rai and Al-Anbaa dailies reported, citing the verdict.
No names were published in the reports, for the couple or the maid.
Newspapers said that based on testimony by one of the couple’s sons, the wife beat the maid for days until her health deteriorated.
The boy told interrogators that his parents had said they were taking the maid to hospital for treatment, but that he never saw her again.
According to the ruling, the couple took the maid, who was “unconscious” at the time, to a remote area in the desert where they threw her from the back seat of the car and then drove over her until she died
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
Mahesh and others here have defended your views. Mahesh as asked you to clarify your comments.
I hope you intend to provide him with some explanation.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:05 am
i dont know what to awnser my explanation is simple and clear.we should respect each other and work for making india strong.we should
try to increase the cake and have a piece of it instead of grabbing the cake.
predatory fascistic and brhmnstic forces in india wants to grab the cake.we should fight this tendency and keep indians poor.
Aligarh Muslim University’s library out of bounds for undergraduate girls
Students of the Women’s College in Aligarh Muslim University are waging a bitter struggle for a facility their counterparts in other institutions would take for granted-access to the university’s central library.
There is no shortage of ludicrous rules.
Ravi Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
It is absolutely diabolical that in this day and age Muslims Girls are not allowed to go to a library.
Here the fault lies with the Muslim community as well as the AMU governing body.
However, is there a Congress angle here. You would have noticed that both Gopi and Ashish lay a substantial blame on the doors of Congress for holding back the Muslim community for electoral politics.
To me this seems an example of increased Saudi pressure. Do we know if AMU receives any grants from the Saudi Government?
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:19 am
girls have their own library,i dont think girls are not allowed.i have seen girls in there with my own eyes.usually girls take books library but keep them for long time.this might be the reason.
from where sauia has come.saudi arabia is giving scholarship to thousands of poor indian muslims.
best solution is to built new big library in abdullah as well.maulana azad library was built in sixtees.in last fifty years ther is no addition.
may library cannot take the load as number of students have increased 7 fold from 5000 to 35000.
instead of cursing muslims and islam,will it not be better to ask for more libraries.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:30 am
Your explanation and justification is not acceptable.
The solution is not to bar only girl students. The rule, if enforced and should not be, should apply to all undergraduate students (girls and boys), otherwise not all. There cannot be gender or any other discrimination while making access to knowledge.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:16 am
e solution is not to bar only girl students
u are right but i dont know whether it is truth or propaganda.our press is controlled by zoinist who have duty to write something anti-muslim every 7-10 days,right or wrong they dont care.
honest solution to the problem is building of atleast 2-3 more libraries.whenever there is rush weak suffers.
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:44 am
when I have time- really, a lot of free time, I will compile a list of
“10 things any serious blogger on Indian Muslim issues should blog about”
I can assure you that not one of them will ever figure on Zia Haq’s blog which champions victimhood and siege mentality.
AMU is a central university- I dont know and dont care if Congress is directly involved in enacting this silly rule.
However, I hope you do get what I mean when I made the reference to “objects of curiousity”- I want to see examples of Congress leading one rally in support of women’s issues, minority issues- really bread and butter stuff- not **** like being allowed to wear the burqa to work.
Congress, rightly or wrongly since the days of Rajiv Gandhi feels that the way to Muslim votes is to appeal to the obscurantist mullahs..
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:11 am
ashish u are aware of grond realities what aligarh university need is 2 more libraries like this not lecture on feminity.this library was established 50years ago.since then no of students have increased 7 times.
Congress, rightly or wrongly since the days of Rajiv Gandhi feels that the way to Muslim votes is to appeal to the obscurantist mullahs
yes like bjp and rss who do the same for hindu votes.now scenerio is changed.moreover nobody should ignore such huge population of india.
what i see soniaje is doing a great job.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 6:27 am
“- I want to see examples of Congress leading one rally in support of women’s issues, minority issues- really bread and butter stuff- not **** like being allowed to wear the burqa to work.”
Any party which does that will always have my vote.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:55 am
Ironically, the university library is called, “Maulana Azad library”!
The Saudis have made huge grants and scholarships to this university.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:04 am
Ironically, the university library is called, “Maulana Azad library”!
bullshit and wrong.this was financed by goverment of india.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Do not bother. His primary function here is to spread disinformation by taking recourse to lies, falsehoods, untruths and innuendos.
RELIGION ASSIMILATION IDENTITY , THE HOME AND THE WORLD
A rationalist viewpoint
First that great Rafi song
TU HINDU BANEGA NA MUSSALMAN BANEGA
INSAN KA AULAD HAI INSAN BANEGA
Engrich had enlightened me on couple of occasions , mostly were bombshells, Like BHUTTO’s other name was HARI , his mother was a Hindu Gujrati ?courtesan.
And he was correct.
He also enlightened me on the practice of DRUZE sect in Lebanon , THAT THEY DONT TEACH THEIR KID QUORAN TILL THEY ARE 40YRS AND DONT EVEN GO TO MOSQUE BEFORE THAT AGE.
Opinion is one thing , which however repugnant one is entitled to it. But using opinion as facts is not acceptable. Like when Engrich claimed hitler’s grandmother was jewish.
I politely quoted page no and para from an authentic source which completely debunked the myth.
Most of his other RANTS are mirror image of the RANTS of TOGADIA.
Now the question is CAN RELIGION HOLD BACK A SOCIETY.
You bet it does. Max Weber settled this debate long ago in his seminal work PROTESTANT ETHICS. He clearly showed how protestant societies forged ahead , yet catholics were mired in religious dogma.
Same with ISLAM , IT IS MIRED IN RELIGIOUS DOGMA , there is no galileo to challenge , no MARTIN LUTHER to challenge.
Are folks aware THERE WERE APPARENTLY SEVEN VERSIONS OF QUORAN , but one caliph decided to burn all six from every corner of islamic empire and made his “chosen” one the only surviving one.
The problem with Islam is THERE IS NO ALLOWANCE FOR DEBATE , EVERY DEBATE IF UNCOMFORTABLE IS DEALT WITH VIOLENCE.
It is true there should be no forced assimilation BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A MEETING POINT, that meeting point is MUSLIMS GO TO MANDIR TO OFFER PUJA
AND HINDUS GO DURING EID AT A MOSQUE TO PRAY .
All strictures on food , dress should disappear .
BOTTOM LINE IS SCIENCE IS SUPREME.
If you think about it WHAT IS GOD , that is a nursery school method to explain , how the earth was created , how man came into being.
WELL READ LATEST SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.
Apparently George Gamow’s BIG BANG THEORY is now STANDING ON HARD FOUNDATION since 1976(apparently there were some unresolved questions prior to this). Perhaps ManoharT with the background of physics can elaborate
I sorely miss my blog Physics Tutor Bobby
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
This is stupid. Most hindus and sikhs are religious but outstanding success in west. Usually you used to finish such posts with donkey sugestions like “muslims should eat pork , science is supreme”
try not to post random disconected thoughts and dont use capitals
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
Cabbage head , didn’t you read my post on KABUTERBAJI in punjab , it is 10000CRORE business.
Second generation or third generation of sikhs are MORE LOUTISH THAN BRITS, I am witness to these “more english than english” sikhs. As for their religosity , it begins and ends with their name and surname, MOST KABUTERS are rustic.
I know a sikh lady , she is FUNDAMENTALIST , wears Kacha, despite being a woman. She told me to tell the Opticians that there is glaucoma in the family , so that your eye testing will be free.THIS IS WHAT IS TAUGHT IN MOST UK GURDWARAS , and it is a fact.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:56 am
How do you know “this is what is taught in most UK gurdhwars, and it is a fact”
Expect better from U …u r Shantanu… Veda Vysa’s step father, Bhishma Pitamaha’s father… (a bit womanizing is ok)
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:46 am
attitudinally, he can be better called Nirad Babu.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:25 am
Like when Engrich claimed hitler’s grandmother was jewish
i said hitlers mother was jew not grand mother.most of the leaders of world has jewish blood.ghaddafi mother and grand mother both were jew.lenin stalin beria mohan bhagwat churchill tueman roosevelt all had same jewish connection.
if hitler wanted to hurt jews ,he could easily attack switzerland and confiscate their wealth.jews gained a lot from second world war otherwise how they were able to establish uno imf unesco … all controlled by them.story ofgas chambers was fabricated to avoid giving proof.2nd and 1st world war was big drama to hurt christians and and weaken the western christian civilization.that is why britain is under debt 100 times to their gdp.are forced to support usa in their foreign ventures.but alliance of 43 nations could not defeat a militia of few thousand determined nationalists.
regarding assimilation and tolerance balwinder jee should know that brhmns tried their level best to put ban on gurugranth but akbar refused.during muslim rule of india rulers used but common man were like brothers.hate among people was created by brhmnst.
in turkey u can find church mosque and synogouge are side by side,so in benaras and ayodhya and in jakarta and kualampur.
shan religion curves the evil side of human being while science help material side.to built house u need cement blocks allumunium cement and allumunium and glass.only cement cannot built house.so religion and science both are neccesary.that is why einstein and prof.abdusalam both were highly religious in their personal life.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:42 am
Make some cooing sounds, Bobby will come running.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:27 am
For a change I agree partly with ur post. This bloody obsession to prove that your book is right and hard facts on the ground be damned is going to ultimately lead to a new crusade. This time with missiles and nukes.
THREE WISE PUNDITS OF MAGI
There are only 3 men here who can set blog alive by orignal provokeworthy thoughts, backed up with silken prose always delivered with cheery smiles and backed with excellent historical knowledge applied brilliantly to contemporary political realities. They are
1. Ashish, I salute you today for wonderful demolition of engerich and ravis tired old anti assimilation rants. Delivered with cheery charm sirji, you came from nowhere and conquered.
2. Gopi and 3. Mishra doc from UK
Ravi when nicest gentelmen on blog like Ashish and Gopi scold you, pl u listen quitely with bowed head. More you argue with long sentences more boring and disparate you sound. Remember Mishraji and Vijay love playing with you for fun, but Ashish and Gopi are true gentelmen whose scolding carries more weight.
I now command Shoeb, rizwan and Shoeb to give bold answer to WHAT EXACTLY IS ASIMILATION.
Anonymous Reply:February 20th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:26 am
ashish has not demolished me ,he has his i have mine but we like other.dont force sikh to become bengalee,accept both as different because they different.assimilation is brhmnst and fascist idea ,a stick to beat others.
Prof Frits Staal, Professor Emeritus of Linguistics/South Asian Studies at Berkley passed away yesterday.
Dr Staal was a great lover of India and a long term student of Vedic insights, texts, structures, logic….
Dr Staal studied Painini’s Sanskrit Grammarin Madras, and did a lot of contributions to the study of linguistics.
He spent a lot of time in Kerala studying about a certain ancient vedic worship/practices extinct in all of India except in a few Namboodiri families in kerala. Of particular mention is his study of “athirathram” , a once in twelve year practice of fire worship; how mathematics, geometry, poetry, grammar etc all come together in the planning and conducting of this special ceremony celebrating fire. Along with many other books on India and Sanskrit, he wrote and published a seminal book “Agni:The Vedic Ritual of Fire Altar (2 volumes)”.
He attended the last Athirathram in Panjoli in April. He “restarted” the Athirathram in 1975 after a long gestation of 30 years.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:45 am
it is very interesting.
When our own people neglect the study of our ancient texts and scriptures, a foreigner takes deep and abiding interest in our heritage and devotesd his valuable time to it.
I salute the memory of Dr.Staal.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:32 am
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm
I think the correct surname is Dr STAHL.i had seen him on a documentary on Chanel4 UK.Apparently he is the only person in the world who could perform a aryan YAGNA with all the precise ritual that goes on everyday FOR A MONTH
Half-human creatures: What is going on?
Now, Nigeria. Another half-human creature is born to a sheep. Thousands of onlookers flocked to see the creature at the Fakon Idi Veterinary Clinic…but what is going on? This is but the latest in a series of half-human creatures born across the globe. Some have suspicions that alien experimentation is at work…
The picture is from Nigeria’s Daily Sun and it is clear that the creature is some kind of a mysterious mutant. The large crowd that gathered was demanding that the owner of the beast explained what had happened, suspicious that he had been having relations with the animal and that a half man-child had been born.
So furious did the crowd become that the Nigerian Security and Civil Defence Corps had to be called, to protect the owner, who some of the crowd wanted to summarily execute. Some were shouting: “Who did do that there?” One bystander commented to the Nigerian newspaper: “This is an abomination in our land. To see a sheep give birth to a half human being is a mystery and that shows how terrible some people are. It is unimaginable that some people will be having intercourse with animals”.
Experts claim that there is a perfectly logical reason for the aspect of this creature, namely that the sheep had been in labour for two days and that the lamb had become deformed. But what about the other similar cases that have happened recently? In 2010 in Turkey, a dead lamb was born with a half-human face, near Izmir. And if a sheep is in labour for two days, its lamb assumes human features? Such a notion defies logic.
Are these genetically modified organisms being let out into the wild? Are they experiments by military researchers? Is this a new form of medical exploration, trying to find donors for organs? Or is alien experimentation at work?
What is going on
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:23 am
I think the owners must have been frustrated and done something “bad” with their sheep.
Degrees are at odds with seats in Thane civic body
Also, a significant number of corporators are connected with construction and real estate businesses: 11 are builders, 8 building material suppliers (including three women) and 2 labour contractors; 1 is a painting contractor.
Of the 65 women corporators, 43 are housewives.
Of the 53 corporators belonging to the Shiv Sena, 19 are school dropouts, those failing class 10 number 12 and 13 have attended college and studied up to class 12; 11 have completed college and hold university degrees; one is illiterate.
The education profile of the 18 corporators from the Congress party reveals that only three have cleared class 10, one of them was unable to clear his SSC and nine are school dropouts.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:03 am
Well the Congress right upto the top has uneducated leaders. You would be more literate than all the progenies of Chacha Nehru who are being projected for the top seats.
That is why we all say we shoudl get over this fascination with dynastic right to rule
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Yes, yes. For you, the cause of all ills of this country can be traced to 10, Janpath. I like your consistency in this regard, it is so much easier to deal with you.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Oh ! I get it! Education does not matter. Lineage and dynasty is more so. Actually in my vocabulary that is nepotism.
By the way , the real changes in this country happend becasue of real educated people like PV Rao and MMS who had genuine degrees and not language course certificates… true or false…
1) Rape case solved, Didi hauls up cops After Mamata’s Left Red-Faced, Top Cops Issue Clarification
Kolkata: Two senior police officers had to pay the price for solving a rape case that the chief minister had called a fabricated story. Detective chief Damayanti Sen and joint commissioner,HQ, Javed Shamim, stood at the Writers’ Building rostrum on Monday and issued a clarification that no one had asked for.
A section of officers feels that Sen and Shamim were pulled up by Mamata for the embarrassment she faced when the case was cracked.
Sen and Shamim, looking visibly upset, explained three points: First, that chief minister Mamata Banerjee had not intervened in the investigation; second, that there was no “groupism” in the force, and third, that the police had acted unitedly under the command of commissioner R K Pachnanda.
However, they did not reveal who asked them to issue the clarifications. This was the talking point in the corridors of power, triggering speculation of a reshuffle in the force.
“The CM has never interfered in this investigation. What is happening now is distracting us from the main issue. The groupism that is being attributed to is totally misleading and incorrect. That is what we felt. That is why an appointment was sought,” Shamim said.
Both the officers said they had sought a meeting with the CM, but insiders say they were summoned to Mamata’s chamber and hauled over the coals for an hour. When they emerged, Sen looked shaken.
Only 48 hoursearlier, Sen and her team were upbeat after cracking the rape case against impossible odds. A woman had claimed she was raped in a car on the night of February 6 and that the Park Street police had sat on her complaint for over a week. On February 16, when the forensic report said there had clearly been an assault on the woman, Mamata and her minister Madan Mitra came out with hasty comments. TheCM said it was a conspiracy to malign her government and Mitra made a big deal of the victim having a few drinks and that she went to a nightclub. Mamata had got her information from the commissioner and the special commissioner who relied more on the Park Street police station than the detective department.
On February 18, Sen announced that the case had been solved and three of the suspects arrested.This went against the CM’s remark. There wasn’t a word of praise from Mamata. The media, the people—and the victim herself —feted Sen as a “champ and a tigress”.
2) IAS, IPS officers leaving Bengal
Harangued By Didi, Seek Deputations
IPS officer Damayanti Sen, who cracked Kolkata’s Park Street rape case, has applied for central government deputation and again highlighted how senior officers continue to prefer leaving West Bengal.
The situation is such that it has become difficult for the government to appoint the next chief secretary after Samar Ghosh. Chief minister Mamata Banerjee had even offered an extension to Ghosh, but he refused. Jaya Dasgupta and Anup Chanda were possible candidates. But with Dasgupta embroiled in a controversy and Chanda keeping unwell, it is now possible that home secretary G D Gautama — who does not enjoy a particularly great rapport with the CM — may become the next chief secretary.
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:35 am
I watched Jayanto Ghosal, the bureau chief if ABP on Newhour last night making a valiant attempt to defend Mamata. I was stuck by the SOP
1. First make light of her comment; “I accept it was a communication error” (reacting to Mamata’s dismissal of the rape as a “Sajano Galpo”- made up story).
2. Then point out what Jyoti Basu had said many years back …
3. Then talk non-stop, giving no one else any chance.
I am ashamed as a proud Bengali, an ex Calcuttan and just an Indian- for heaven’s sake that such creatures are gainfully employed by a newspaper which is edited by Sunil Gangapadhyaya.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:38 am
At best Mamta gives an opportunity to ram in some free enterprise policies in this five year tenure. Quie possible that the CPM may bounce back– given her rather hysterical behaviour.
It’llbe sad in case Bengal were to go back into the hands of Karat and his China centric outlook.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:47 am
Vijay Kumar, Ashish, Mohan,
Next year a non-JNU type historian will write a book, “HOW WB WAS RECAPTURED BY CHINA IN 300DAYS”
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Vijay, you just dont get it- it is a mistake to think that Mamata is free-market. At best she is clue-less about economics and political economy in general. At worst, she is by instinct, more protectionist than CPM.
Just you wait…
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:07 am
I also watched the same programme. It has nothing to do with Bengal, Mamta or
Ghoshal. We would have seen similar reactions from the ruling politicians if this had
happened in any other state. The biggest problem is the breed — Indian politician –.
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 1:12 pm
You are probably right- Shiela Dixit once blamed a girl’s murder on the fact that she was out a night – to work, mind you.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:43 am
Develop a thick skin, yaar.
Garnier DTS 7 day wonder may help.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:08 am
That is what happens if you live amongst PAPPIS
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:20 pm
One should pity the people of West Bengal whose choices were limited to just two – the frying pan and the fire. What ‘crime’ did they commit in their previous lives to meet such a fate?
BTW, you must also have read in the previous blog that a recent rally by the Comrades was attended by over 9,00,000(!) people. Can that ground hold that many?
I agree. It is pathetic to see TMC politicians trying to defend the indefensible.
In general, it is so much more honourable and civilised to apologise for any faux pas or a misdeed or ….. People are very forgiving if the person in the dock shows remorse. it is so much easier to say ‘ I am sorry’ than 100000+ word essay to justify the ‘crime’.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:52 am
I am sure HBS will do a “case study” on Didi’s and Amma’s administrations. Amma is doing very well. Obviously she has prior experience.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:07 am
@ManoharT , You are doing what Digvijay does for congress against BJP.
Playing Cross Bat, with only one shot in mnd , over the ropes.
I have access to VERNACULAR paper websites, so grant me the arrogance , that I am tad more informed than you.
Thewhole problem arose , because , the rapist (KADER,NASIR, SUMEET BAJAJ AND ISMAIL) had given false names when they berfriended that lady.
The lady is 36 , divorced , angloindian,with two young daughters ,HAD GONE OUT TO ENJOY FEW DRINKS AT A NIGHT CLUB AROUND 0200HRS
When Police hauled the persons by the name supplied to them , THEY ALL HAD ALIBI thus were immediately released.ON THE BASIS OF THIS INFORMATION AS ADVISED TO MAMATA BY THE POLICE , she said the whole thing may be fabricated.
But the lady retreived the photos and names from FACEBOOK , and then the penny dropped. THERE WAS A MEDIA CIRCUS (CALCUTTA MEDIA CAN TEACH UK MEDIA A WORD OR TWO IN SENSATIONALISM), once this lady was villified for her lifestyle ,next the pendulum swung when the real culprits were nabbed.
During CPMrule google BANTALA, OR SINGUR AND TAPASI MULLICK
The above rape will appear as eve teasing.
As aparna Sen reminded yesterday in NDTV , Jyoti basu had remarked about Bantala , “These things happen”
SHE HAS GIVEN A FREE HAND TO THE POLICE , HAD IT BEEN CPM RULE , FORGET ABOUT INVESTIGATION , THE POLICE OFFICER WOULD HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED and the hapless lady suddenly vanishes
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 11:11 am
biting the hand that does pooja to you, chingulate?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:08 pm
The problem with Mamta is she blabbers and then perhaps thinks. This is not the first time and will not be the last. IMO, she has become a megalomaniac.
What was the need to say anything till such time the investigations were over? What was the hurry? Who asked to say anything in the first place?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Who asked to say anything in the first place , …..
Answer THE POLICE COMMISSIONER
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm
And Mamata is ‘milk-drinking child’ and unable to take an independent view.
He swears by the Gita, and teaches Afghan pupils the Queen’s Language
When he started taking math tuitions for his landlady’s son, Tripathi found his calling in teaching. Soon he was taking classes for spoken English at a tuition centre in south Delhi. There he came in touch with several Afghan students. “I found them to be very loving and warm,” he says. It has turned out to be an ensuring association since. A large number of Afghan refugees live in Bhogal and Lajpat Nagar colonies in south Delhi.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:48 am
I am sure he made a difference in their lives.
“Mahesh and others here have defended your views. Mahesh has asked you to clarify your comments.”
This is, by the way, the fake sardar, Ravi Singh, speaking.
What, my I humbly ask, were your compelling reasons for rising to the defence of this engrich, who, if you don’t know his recent blog-past, was expelled by Vinod Sharma himself for hurting the religious feelings of Hindus and Sikhs?
please, please, make this character sport walrus mustache. Fake sardar, Ravi Singh, does seem to like the walrus mustache very much.
Athithee devo bhava …the Italian Killer Mariners are under judicial custody but have been put up at CISF guest house at Kochi. They have also gone out sightseeing and are being served pizzas and other continental fare . Achuthananandan has expressed apprehension that their arrest may be just a drama … after all India ’s relations with Italy run deep and go back several years.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 6:48 am
Biryani for Kasab and pizzas for marine killers. No doubt we are great hosts.
For attracting tourists we should put up a slogan
” commit all the crimes in India. We Give 5 star treatments to foreign criminals”
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:03 am
Some spin doctors have sprung into action and started writing how they can be tried only under International Law in Italy. Do not be surprised f the goverrnment does a Quatrochchi on them
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:14 am
Raymond Davis an American who killed three Pakistanis was released by Pakistan
government. Will India do the same as Pakistan did ?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:37 am
we can do much better than the Pakistanis.
we have handed over the reigns of the country to an Italian. Now these two ‘bechaare’ faujis- we will make them our MPs.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Sometimes back we too released a Kim Davy !
Interesting article on NCTC.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:26 am
Read it thanks . It appears that S D Pradhan is the second Intelligence Oficer opposed to the NCTC in its present form. Even B Raman a former RAW officer and well known columnist has opposed it . and their opposition is totally for proffesional reasons . But I wonder what is the NSA do , if we still have turf wars and intelligence not being acted upon in time etc.etc
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:28 pm
B Raman is less of an RAW officer, more of a BJP pracharak. Check out his 5 articles, you will know what I mean.
Consensus building even on matters of national security is not understood by UPA 2. So arrogant they have become with power. Within the party no consensus is required because the word of the dynasty is final. Outside of it they just want the nation to lump everything that is thrown at them. Its a pitiable state of affairs.
Good post. Police reform is very important.
Interesting ethics and spin doctoring :
here are a few things which the COngress does and its spin doctors call secularism.
a) President Pratibha Patil’s son caught with 1 crore cash.
SPIN DOC: Nothing yaar… what is one crore?
b) Khurshid says that “Sonia ji bhavook ho gayi when terrorists are killed” and “phoot phoot kar rone lagi.”
SPIN DOC: What’s wrong yaar? Vote ke liye nakli aansoon toh zarori hai… who cares about the security personnel killed… unki kitni vote hai?
c) Jayant Chaudhary caught accepting 70000 cash.
SPIN DOC: In this UP elections where 3000 crores are being spent… are we expected to lose sleep over 70000 which cannot even buy u a Nano?
d) Louise Fernandes and Salman Khurshid use her conversion and communal antics to woo Muslims.
SPIN DOC: Sach hi toh kaha hai. Chal chotti baat mat karo. Let us sing “vote ke liye kuch bhi karega… and shout BJP RSS BJP RSS to drown out voices of protesters…
e) Ben Prasad and Rahul insult EC :
SPIN DOC: THose are true revolutionaries. Any revolutionary is sarfarosh. Let us clap and encopurage them… by the way how will I get my Rajya Sabha seat if I dont?
AshishC Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:43 am
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:59 am
70,000 must have been the advance or Bayana as it is called in UP. The 70,00,000 must have been deliverd at the house.
There has not been any large scale migration to India from any foreign country in recent times (or , for that matter, in not-recent times too). There would have been a question of “assimilation”, had a large number of British stayed on in India, or a large number of Portuguese stayed on in their Indian colonies, or a large number of French stayed on in Puducherry.
The question of assimilation, or the need by government to promote “special” assimilation plans do not and should not arise with people whose forefathers have been in this country for centuries It is foolish, as well as dangerous, for government to engage in assimilation programs for targeted segments just because they are minority. One can always create and configure a minority to any specifications if one looka closely –
Somewhere, some centuries ago, my ancestors embraced Islam for whatever reasons – may be forcefully converted, maybe by choice, may be for romance/love. That does not make me or my parents or grandparents needing any assimilation program – I dont even know what “it” is.
I live in a “TamBrahm” enclave. There are a few Sardarjis, a few Bengalis, a few Telugus also living in the community – different type of minorities all living together happily.
I do not know if I answered your question properly. Let me know if you have any questions.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:09 am
igniting hatred between different comunities is sole propreity and expertize of hindu/christian and christian zoinists.
I will give you a piece of advice and an idiom:
Please do not hit elders on this blog below the belt.
The general knowledge you talk about is mostly cut-and-paste jobs, which you will more easily get googling.
And you are more likely to be branded fmnst, zionst, brhmnst racst etc. by the take-it-from-me all-season expert, engrich
How do I know , that sikh lady innocently let the cat out of the bag. New arrivals were illiterate ,also because they are also in GHETTOS , gurdwara is like a RED CROSS CAMP to these people. They are ALL ABOUT IMMIGRATION LOOPHOLES AND EVERY POSSIBLE AVENUE TO EXTRACT LAST PENNY FROM SOCIAL SECURITY DEPT
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:21 am
I dont think illegal migration should be a big issue. After all the west is not having children anymore.
the British too came here illegally as the East Indian company. They went illegally to the Americas and the Africa, australia zone and captured the areas.
The US periodically allows the illegals to acquire citizenship and they have been a part of the American folklore. So what is the big deal?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:28 am
Vijay Khapodia, The big thing is SPITTING ON THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU, in other words HYPOCRISY.
Also this INHUMAN ILLEGAL TRAFFICKING is a sympotmp of a bigger illness that is punjab and its all enveloping corruption and extreemely low educational acheivements(Thus No call Cenres in Hoshiyarpur)
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:34 pm
@ Shan Nirodh Chaudhary
UK is a has been. A hollow economy. A hollow manufacuring sector. NOthing in the film or writing world. Family life and morality… a zilch.
The only thing they can boast about today is ALfie Patterson who fathered a child at the age of ten. You may want to be a slave because of Pavlovian Nirad Chaudhary mentality.
But … I … in my nine visits always am an equal with goras and have them eating out of my hands when they meet me in Delhi.
I am sure you must be walking like a dog with your bh_ _ _ available for servicing the whiteman…
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:29 am
A few illegal migrants from Punjab is least of the problems that country is facing. Shan keeps on bringing this up here to score a point aginst Balwinder.
UK is doomed. The society is broken, single mothers are in huge numbers, almost everyone is on dole, no one wants to work, they are too politically correct to speak against Muslims living there and plotting against them. The list goes on.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:57 am
See a thing with Indians is that I have got the stamp of approval from the whitie… now I must act like the whitie’s soldier.
Being a bit of a student of history… I dont think this illegal migration is a big deal. A handful of whitemen exterminated the natives of Australia, new Zealand, Africa and America.
With India it was touch and go. Probably after they got Canada and US they felt managing India is too mcuh of a headache…
Now that the whities are decliing in the procreation area, I think nothing wrong in Indians helping out.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 11:04 am
you are right, shan is obsessed with the so called illegal immigration of Punjabis. At the same time he is very sanguine about Bangladeshis in their thousands immigrating to UK.
all these Shan, fake Ravi, engrich etc are on dole.
when the british health service has “doctors” like shan, you can imagine how long it will take the service to approach its doom.
which is why he spends at least three hours daily on this blog. Other blogs are extra.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Next time it will be you back of a lorry under a pile of vegetables trying to sneak in through the ports of Dover.
Given that your cranium has more air than brain cells , it is understable how it passed you by the fact THAT 30000 INDIANS COME TO UK TO STUDY, you probably had tried but was chucked out at the gates of British high Commission , because of your past record of Dalit molestation , your CASTE TRAIT
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:38 pm
I have been there and back – legally.
I have worked in the UK for one year and then moved back. I don’t see anything wrong in Indians going to UK on a student visa and getting involved in work more than studies. It is simple economics – what these yound kids do is completely legal.
What I posted above was from my experience. Why are you getting personal? I listed a few issues facing UK and you are after my history of Dalit molestation.
By the way, where do you live? SE18?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 1:42 pm
no it is DA11
Are folks aware THERE WERE APPARENTLY SEVEN VERSIONS OF QUORAN , but one caliph decided to burn all six from every corner of islamic empire and made his “chosen” one the only surviving one.
And who was the caliph? Where did the incident took place? Please care to reply in brief and specific to the context of history. Would appreciate if any piece of information (books or knowledge of some historian and not some comments of a blog/website) linking to this ‘awareness’ is mentioned.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 10:59 am
how r things in Pakistan?
SO what r the chances of Sharif coming back… or is it going to be Imran?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 11:12 am
The political parties are gearing up for the next elections due early next year to gain majority in center and in local body elections. Pakistan People Party (despite hurdles and tussle with ongoing judicial and memogate issues) still has big vote bank among the masses and their political alliance with other provincial parties like MQM and ANP makes it a strong contender.
As for the competition between Imran and Sharif, Imran is coming out to be strong vis a vis Nawaz especially after few members of his league joined Imran’s party (PTI). Javed Hashmi to name one in the list. The two are fighting in Punjab whereas PPP is competing nationwide.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Thx. I have a feleling that Sharif may combine with Zardari in the end to keep Imran out for at least 5 years. That is post elections.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:25 pm
to defame islam any type of bullshit is considered true,
Of Aisha’s age at marriage
Nilofar Ahmed | Opinion | From the Newspaper
12 hours agoIT is said that Hazrat Aisha was six years old when her nikah was performed with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Makkah, and nine years old when she moved in to live with her husband in Madina after Hijra.
This piece of misinformation has led to the wrong view that child marriage has the sanction of Islam. It must be noted that establishing the authenticity of hadiths, the narrators’ circumstances and the conditions at that time have to be correlated with historical facts. There is only one hadith by Hisham which suggests the age of Hazrat Aisha as being nine when she came to live with her husband.
Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus. With reference to scholars such as Umar Ahmed Usmani, Hakim Niaz Ahmed and Habibur Rehman Kandhulvi, I would like to present some arguments in favour of the fact that Hazrat Aisha was at least 18 years old when her nikah was performed and at least 21 when she moved into the Prophet’s house to live with him.
According to Umar Ahmed Usmani, in Surah Al-Nisa, it is said that the guardian of the orphans should keep testing them, until they reach the age of marriage, before returning their property (4:6). From this scholars have concluded that the Quran sets a minimum age of marriage which is at least puberty. Since the approval of the girl has a legal standing, she cannot be a minor.
Hisham bin Urwah is the main narrator of this hadith. His life is divided into two periods: in 131A.H. the Madani period ended, and the Iraqi period started, when Hisham was 71 years old. Hafiz Zehbi has spoken about Hisham’s loss of memory in his later period. His students in Madina, Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifah, do not mention this hadith. Imam Malik and the people of Madina criticised him for his Iraqi hadiths.
All the narrators of this hadith are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine. Maulana Usmani thinks this change was purposely and maliciously made later.
Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.
Some time after the death of the Prophet’s first wife, Hazrat Khadija, Khawla suggested to the Prophet that he get married again, to a bikrun, referring to Hazrat Aisha (Musnad Ahmed). In Arabic bikrun is used for an unmarried girl who has crossed the age of puberty and is of marriageable age. The word cannot be used for a six-year-old girl.
Some scholars think that Hazrat Aisha was married off so early because in Arabia girls mature at an early age. But this was not a common custom of the Arabs at that time. According to Allama Kandhulvi, there is no such case on record either before or after Islam. Neither has this ever been promoted as a Sunnah of the Prophet. The Prophet married off his daughters Fatima at 21 and Ruquiyya at 23. Besides, Hazrat Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, married off his eldest daughter Asma at the age of 26.
Hazrat Aisha narrates that she was present on the battlefield at the Battle of Badar (Muslim). This leads one to conclude that Hazrat Aisha moved into the Prophet’s house in 1 A.H. But a nine-year-old could not have been taken on a rough and risky military mission.
In 2 A.H, the Prophet refused to take boys of less than 15 years of age to the battle of Uhud. Would he have allowed a 10-year-old girl to accompany him? But Anas reported that he saw Aisha and Umme Sulaim carrying goatskins full of water and serving it to the soldiers (Bukhari). Umme Sulaim and Umme Ammara, the other women present at Uhud, were both strong, mature women whose duties were the lifting of the dead and injured, treating their wounds, carrying water in heavy goatskins, supplying ammunition and even taking up the sword.
Hazrat Aisha used the kunniat, the title derived from the name of a child, of Umme Abdullah after her nephew and adopted son.
If she was six when her nikah was performed, she would have been only eight years his senior, hardly making him eligible for adoption. Also, a little girl could not have given up on ever having her own child and used an adopted child’s name for her kunniat.
Hazrat Aisha’s nephew Urwah once remarked that he was not surprised about her amazing knowledge of Islamic law, poetry and history because she was the wife of the Prophet and the daughter of Abu Bakr. If she was eight when her father migrated, when did she learn poetry and history from him?
There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time.
The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on contemporary issues.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:45 pm
We would have known for sure what was Aisha’s age at marriage, if the other six versions of the koran were allowed to remain open for a free, voluntary observation as one’s guiding force.
Therefore, like so many of your other falsehoods, we take this too to be utterly false. Not that most of us would lose any sleep over Ayesha’s age.
anothr feather in the cap of harday samrat,
The Supreme Court on Tuesday questioned the Gujarat government for initiating a probe against social activist Teesta Setalvad for her alleged role in a case of illegal exhumation of the bodies of the 2002 riot victims, saying it is a “spurious” case to victimise her.
“This is a hundred percent spurious case to victimise the petitioner (Setalvad),” said a bench of justices Aftab Alam and Ranjana Prakash Desai.
While criticising the state government for beginning the probe against Setalvad, it added, “this type of case does no credit to the state of Gujarat in any way.”
“This case is hundred percent spurious. In other cases against petitioner, there may be something,” the bench said.
Besides this case, the Gujarat government has also lodged criminal proceedings against her in other riot-related cases. The bench was of the view that it was not correct on the part of the Gujarat government to go ahead with the case.
It asked senior advocate Pradeep Ghosh, who appeared for the Gujarat government, to go through the First Information Report (FIR) of the case and advise the government not to proceed with it.
“You advise your client not to proceed with this type of case. You should show some responsibility and tell the government not to proceed with the case,” the bench said.
While posting the matter for March 23, the bench asked the senior counsel to go through the FIR “passionately” and tell the court as to what does he feel about it.
The bench also asked Gujarat government’s standing counsel Hemantika Wahi to go through the FIR.
The bench was hearing a petition by Setalvad against the May 27 order of the Gujarat High Court, which had refused to quash the FIR registered against her at a police station in Panchmahal district of the state on exhumation of the bodies from a graveyard near river Panam.
While making the critical remarks against the Gujarat government for initiating the probe against Setalvad in the body exhumation case, the bench said its interim stay, imposed on July 29, 2011 on criminal proceedings against Setalvad in the case would continue till the next date of hearing.
“Interim stay to continue till the next date” it said.
Responding to the apex court notice, the state government had in its affidavit justified its probe against Setalvad in the case saying she actually planned and executed the digging of the graves without any permission in 2006.
It had claimed that during the probe into the case, it has emerged that “Teesta Setalvad, the petitioner herein, was the main accused, who actually planned and executed this operation of digging of graves near Pandarwada through her staff.”
The government had said the other accused have claimed innocence and had blamed Setalvad for instigating them to carry out the exhumation, which is a penal offence.
“Exhumation of the dead bodies without prior permission of the competent authorities constitutes an offence under sections 192 (fabricating false evidence), 193 (punishment for false evidence, 201 (causing disappearance of evidence), 120-B criminal conspiracy), 295(A) (deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings) and 297 (trespassing on burial places) of IPC,” the affidavit had said.
It was alleged that in 2002, about 28 unidentified bodies of the riot victims from Pandarwada and surrounding villages in Khanpur taluka were buried in the graveyard.
Earlier, the high court had declined to scrap the FIR, but had quashed the summons, which had termed her as absconding
Gopi sir — the most decent blogger. His views on all the subjects are up to the point
and very informative. His knowledge of Indian mythology is awsome.
Shenoy- Love his repartee. One of my favourites.
Vijay : Keep up your tora bora and mudike. You always bring smile on my face.
Manohar – Decent person slightly biased towards congress but so what different
views are always welcome. He claims that he ignore few people — but is he able to ?
Ashish- Love his style of writing. Though not very regular but whenever he writes anything he always makes sense.
Mohan. Love most of his jokes. I dont know why people only consider him as a joker.
He many time writes good things. His reply to Ravi ( your this post does not deserves
an answer) was one of the best reply to Ravi when he talked about pils for dalits and all.
Ravi- Admire your guts. You do stand tall even there are so many bloggers against you.
Vinay: not a regular but always posts which is appreciated by almost all.
Balwinder : Tries his best to be funny and thinks that he is the leader of the pack.
Dr Mishra Swabhiman or abhiman — I am not yet sure.
Dr Shan I love his arrogance. Full of knowledge but sometimes just talks rubbish.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:47 pm
And your best one was:
To all the gentlemen on this blog — except one sick man –
HAPPY REPUBLIC TO ALL OF YOU GUYS.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Thank you Ishwar. You are not regular I am not able to make up
my mind about you. Give me few weeks . Bye Bye gentlemen.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Thanks. I would not call them “mythology” (although I myself may have used that word); they are the unparalleled classics; in fact I believe a writer of Vyasa’s calibre is yet to be born.
I suggest two novels for you – “Yayati” by VS Khandekar and “Mrithyunjaya” by Shivaji Samanth, both gifted Marathi writers. These have been translated into most of the Indian languages (definitely Hindi if that is your mother tongue).
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Thx SOnam. But I always do try to have a serious nationalistic message agains terrorists hidden in the humour ! Anyway nice of u to remember me!
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:38 pm
very perceptive observations. Not because you have praised me, but your comments merit appreciation.
Mohan makes everybody laugh, the more so when there are tensions in the air.
I wish there were more of his kind here, besides, of course, the king of comedy, Vijay Kumar.
But I am surprised, no, no, change it to not surprised about your studious avoidance of a plague-engrich, who single-handedly destroyed Zia’s blog and is almost there with this blog too.
@ManoharT and Ashish , something to make you sad
We couldn’t believe our eyes as we saw not one or two but hundreds of applications from existing faculty members and scholars of US and Canadian universities like Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Toronto. There are several applications from the top three UK varsities also. The applicants not only have brilliant track records, they have also been consistent in research, have publications to their credit and have done pioneering work in their fields,” said VC Malabika Sarkar.
“Not all applicants are Bengalis with Kolkata connections. Neither are most applicants alumni of the erstwhile Presidency College,” she said, trying to drive home the point that scholars have applied simply for the “Presidency” brand. “Most applicants from top foreign universities are existing faculty members. While some have just started their career, others are already mid-way into teaching and are perfectly ensconced in their lives. There is no way in which we can match their compensation but they wish to come to Presidency because they will be architects who will build the university from its new foundation,” Sarkar explained.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Any centre of excellence in education will always attract the best talent – financial compensation may not be a major criteria.
@Usman Choudhury, This may well be from your Co religionist
7 korans- may not be shocking to Muslims, but to non-Muslims, it will be shocking to know that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad in seven different modes – over the incredibly long period of twenty three years – and all the seven Qurans were compiled in book forms only after the death of Muhammad. After nearly 20 years of their compilations, Uthm’an, the third caliph, canonized the Quran into a singular codex out of 7 versions, and ordered the other six versions of the Quran be “BURNED” throughout the Islamic empire. So hundreds of Qurans of the 6 other versions were cremated without ceremony. Do all Muslims know this fact? How do Muslims react when they come to know that Allah’s books revealed to guide humankind – not one but six of them and each of them probably as important and “sacred” as the present Quran – were burned to ashes, leaving no trace of them? EVIDENCE FOR 7 VERSIONS OF THE QURAN The following ahadith are the evidence that the Quran was allegedly revealed to Muhammad in seven different versions and that it was not in a book form even after the death of Muhammad. Sahih Al-bukhari Volume 3, Book 41, Number 601: Narrated ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab: ‘………….When he recited it, Allah’s Apostle said, “It was revealed in this way.” He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, “It was revealed in this way. The Quran has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you.”
As for your ALLERGY towards GOOGLE , and internet based information , may i politely remind you , that Millions of Islamic Propanganda sites exists , because it is thought to be a valid medium as newspapers and books
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 2:57 pm
thanks fr this info. However is it vetted (nobody will have the guts to vet now!
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:34 pm
is it true that ems was the first man who called for demolition of babari mosque.if true ,can u give the reason.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 5:01 pm
EMS was a great man – a political leader, a social reformer, a philosopher….He never got into religion/god, he didnt believe in any.
He also did not groom his children to take reins
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:07 am
even as a young boy, I used to read about EMS namboodiripad and over the years, I have developed some deep respect for the sincerity with which he conducted his politics. Same way was A.K. Gopalan.
You will not find such true leaders today even with a searchlight.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:23 am
yes, EMS was a great leader–btw Arundhati Roy ridiculed him in her “God of Small Things” (because that is what her western masters want)… AK Gopalan (Nambiar) was also a great leader; I believe he was the first opposition leader in the parliament, but was very cooperative with Nehru on deveopmental issues.
engrich Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:11 pm
this is news to me i will check it but no problem as far as content is same.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 3:27 pm
GOD PROPOSES, MAN DISPOSES.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:04 pm
In the era of Usman ibn Affan the text of Quran had existed in (may be) more than 7 versions. Some with missing chapters and some with disordered chapters thus differing with the original version at the time of first caliph. Just try to visualize that era when no hard binding and copy rights had existed. So it was made necessary to make one uniformity and to resort to original version. Thus under the counsel the copy of the original text (with Hafsah, one of the wives of prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) was recompiled and the rest was buried or burned. Mind you this is the only book that has existed on the face of earth that is unique and same by text. A big claim on my part but be it from India, Pakistan, Indonesia and world over the book and those who learn it by heart, there is not a single discrepancy of text. Alhamdullilah!
As for my allergy is concerned there is no confrontation of internet being the valid medium of information exchange (as i myself belong to the relevant computer science field) but the point of contention lies with validity of the content especially in religious matters.
Terrorism and local law and order problems are different. Terrorists have support across the states and even from outside. Please differentiate between local goondagiri and terrorism.
usman saheb aapko hamare logon ke intellectual standard ka idea ho gya ho ga,
ab kutch hamare ghandhi jee ke bare mein jaan lijiye,
Mohandas K. Gandhi was a bigoted racist. His contribution to the Independence of South Asia was slim to none. Prime Minister Atlee said so very clearly. Gandhi’s bigotry and racism was repudiated by the US Congress and the Novel Academy which refused him a prize because of his support for war.
Gandhi supported every war that the British Empire fought and wanted to be a Recruiter in Chief for the British Empire. His personal life was beset with child abuse and adultery with 12 year old girls.Sex life of Mohandas Gandhi, his failures and sexual perversion
Gandhi’s Caste and race politics in South Africa: Was it a success or failure?
Gandhi viwed the South African as inferior to the Indians there and looked down upon them.
Gandhi’s launched a “satyagraha” in September 1906 – It was launched against the South African Transvaal Authorities against the Transvaal Asiatic Ordinance which required all Indian, Asiatic, Arab and Turkish people to always carry an identity pass for being eligible to stay in South Africa – lasted seven years, a highlight being the mass burning of such passes in protest.
After It led to the deportation of many Indians and thousands of others facing imprisonment and injury, the passes were withdrawn – but only temporarily. What followed was worse: laws were passed to restrict the non-Europeans into designated areas in every city. Racial segregation had begun legally in South Africa. By any yardstick, Gandhi’s satyagraha was a disaster.
Gandhis much heralded Salt March: Was it a success or a Failure?
The much heralded and market Dandi March. Walking 241 miles with hundreds joining him on the way, Gandhi broke the salt law on April 6, 1930 at the beach in Dandi in Gujarat. Within a few weeks about a hundred thousand men and women were in jail as salt depots were raided and crowds clashed with police. But the Viceroy of India, Lord Wavell, refused to abolish the salt law and it was left to Nehru’s Interim Government to do so in October 1946. Thus, the Dandi March too was a failure. Yet its re-enactment by the UPA resulted in the issue of a series of commemorative five-rupee stamps by the postal department on April 5, 2005. Did Gandhis series of satyagrahas deliver freedom to India? Success or Failure?
Without going into the outstanding anti-British role of the Indian National Army raised by the self-exiled Subhash Chandra Bose, the post-war trial by the British of three of INA’s senior officers, its dramatic mutinous effects on the Indian Army sepoys and ratings of Royal Indian Navy, read what the famous historian, R C Muzumdar, wrote:
“The campaigns of Gandhi… came to an ignoble end about fourteen years before India achieved Independence… the revelations made by the INA trial, and the reaction it produced in India, made it quite plain to the British, already exhausted by the war, that they could no longer depend upon the loyalty of the sepoys for maintaining their authority in India. This had probably the greatest influence upon their final decision to quit India.” (Three Phases of India’s Struggle for Freedom, Bombay, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan).
Gandhi’s attitude to religion and his avowed creed of non-violence? Success of Failure?
Gandhi confessed to worshipping the teachings of the Bhagvad Gita.The sacred text preached war even against one’s kith and kin when circumstances warranted it. How then could he himself preach and advocate ahimsa, non-violence, to his Hindu followers and to the Indian nation? How could he when the British Empire was crushing his own people every which way? And when he was supporting the British Government.
Was Gandhi as a “secular” person?
He introduced religious symbols to the body politics of the Subcontinent. If “secular” means keeping religion away from politics, the icon certainly did not do that. He introduce religious symbols into the body politics of the Subcontinent.
He lived in an Ashram. He dressed like a Hindu monk. He spoke of Hindu mythology. He was named “Mahatma”.
He associated himself with the Khilafat Movement (1921), which was a political movement of Indian Muslims led by two brothers, Mohamed Ali and Shaukat Ali, for the restoration of the Caliphate abolished in Turkey after the First World War. The agitation was essentially religious, and Gandhi believed that by supporting it he would cement Hindu-Muslim unity. Gandhi’s own statement in Young India of October 20, 1921 said:
“I claim that with us both the Khilafat is the central fact – with Maulana Muhammad Ali because it is his religion, with me because, in laying down my life for the Khilafat, I ensure the safety of the cow, that is my religion, from the Mussalman knife.”
Jinnah had repeatedly warned Gandhi not to encourage religious leaders and their followers.
If “secular” means “equal respect to all religions”, then Gandhi was not that kind of “secular” person too. In April 1932, when the British Government’s “Communal Award” provided for separate electorates and reservation of seats for Muslims and the Depressed Classes, Gandhi announced that if the Award was not changed as to the Depressed Classes (who were Hindus) he would fast unto death.
Was he Non-violent?
Relying on secret documents of the British Government released in 1967, the legendary constitutional authority, H M Seervai, concluded,
“Gandhi used non-violence as a political weapon, and was prepared to support, or connive at, violence to secure political goals.” (Constitutional Law of India, Supplement to Third Edition, 1988, Pg 143 of Introduction). Seervai cites the following in support of his statement:
1) In mid 1918, Gandhi supported the War Conference main resolution of recruiting Indians to fight on the side of Britain and her allies if it ensured the acceptance of Congress-Muslim League scheme for Home Rule.
2) Gandhi wrote to the Viceory that he wanted to be “Recruiter-in-Chief” for the Empire
3) Gandhi stated in an interview to News Chronicle, London, that the Viceroy could remain in charge of military operations and India could be used as a base for such military operations provided that a National Government was immediately formed.
4) In an interview with Lord Wavell on August 27, 1946, Gandhi told him that “If India wants a bloodbath, she shall have it.”
Was Gandhi really a prophet of “non-violence” and “an apostle of peace”?
No! His personal life and his failures in the political arena tell us that he was a failure.
GANDHI ON NON-VIOLENCE
• During a prayer speech: “If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against
the British.” – June 16, 1947 (Reference: Gandhi’s “The Last Phase”, Vol II, p. 326)
To the British during WWII: “This manslaughter must be stopped. You are losing; if you persist, it will only result in greater bloodshed. Hitler is not a bad man.”(Reference: G.D. Birla’s “In the Shadow of the Mahatma”, p. 276)
GANDHI ON BLACKS AND RACE RELATIONS
• “A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” (Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150)
• Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks: “One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, p. 105)
• “Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension…the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244-245)
• His description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also, “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.” – Mar. 7, 1908 (Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136)
The Durban Post Office
One of Gandhi’s major “achievements” in South Africa was to promote racial segregation by refusing to share a post office door with the black natives.
Sergeant Major Gandhi
Learn how Gandhi became a Sgt. Major in the British Army and eagerly participated in the 1906 British war against the black Zulus.
Gandhi and South African Blacks
Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them “Kaffirs” and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African natives
Gandhi called Hitler a friend
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:15 pm
And you support Congress. I am sure Ravi will join you in this abuse.
Gandhi with all his faults was million times better than criminal Mohammad. That’s the bottom line.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Even though i feel sorry for what engrich has pasted but even after three years of our confrontation you are still the same.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Brother engrich this was totally uncalled for. Please have sympathy for those who respect a political figure.
Jaitley, on Times Now: “This is a government of serial offenders” on the model code of conduct.
If you can’t win the game, change the rules or fix the referee- the depths to which the Congress will sink.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:33 pm
We need to make the cong sink in 2014
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:56 am
One must give Jaitley his due. He has a way with words.
The last time it was Flee-dom at midnight. Now, ‘this is a government of serial offenders’.
@ Manohar and Mahesh
Democracy is one thing. But disrupting democracy is another.
Now Engrich is going to plaster this blog with 50 pages of Garbage from tora Bora. Nobody reads it/
Ravi admires it… almost beams in pride as is his son has unloaded Nobel prize winning stuff here.
And democracy and this blog gets destroyed.
Bottomline: For effective functioning of democracy… we need to put Kasabs in the andaa cell and not give them too much importance.
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 4:59 pm
It is funny –esp ur comment about son winning nobel prize…
But shared interests etc do create fondness ,,,,,
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 7:51 pm
No body reads it . Then why bother?
You are also contradicting yourself. Nobody reads it, then how can Ravi admire it? Unless your definition of nobody is different from the true dictionary meaning. What say?
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 11:59 pm
When a pig shits in your lawn… will you say “fantastic” or will you throw it out?
As for Ravi– probably he and Engrich are one or at least in tandem. Ask him to say something against his guru from Tora Bora and see his reactions. Just try it now…
Ravi… your Guru from Tora Bora just posted 30 pages of nonsense which hae taken up 45% of the blog space of the past 3 days. So why dont you kick him in the bum, instead of aplauding this loose motion of Engrich?
Manohar you will hear a stunned silence, or tacit approval or shouts of RSS now…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:36 am
You will hear stunned silence if you continue to use such language. I choose not to respond to this post of yours.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:48 am
I said nothing offensive. Gandhi had a huge part to play in our freedom struggle. I may have a 100 differences with him on his treatment of Bhagat Singh or for that matter his personal fads, yet he is the perrson who held the freedom struggle together.
So when Engrich unloads this bull out here, why can’t I give my opinion. Do you agree with Engrich and support his right to propogate lies under applause from Ravi?
That is the real question..
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:19 am
My objection toyou is the use of language, You could have said that in more civilised language.
I have noticed that your persistent efforts are to hound Engrich and Ravi, which I will not support. All (just as you) have equal rights to say what they wish to. I suggested to you earlier, keep your own house in order first and then make noise.
BTW, if anyone including Engrich writes ‘garbage’ I simply ignore it. No point in wasting time.
Now that you have seen the quality of Indian fundoos — like Enrich and Ravi who bombard bullshit and forcibly occupy the blog…. how do you compare them with Pakistani fundoos like Masood Azhar and hafeez Saeed?
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:23 pm
I guess im the wrong person you are addressing to. The least said the better.
Very informative. Few things I knew and some were new to me. Thanks.
Do not waste your time waiting for that speech. With due apologies to him, Vijay does not have the nerve to show his ‘idols’ in similar light, he prefers to scoot. If you were to follow his ‘theories’, all the ills and the bad things that happen in this country are to be traced to 10, Janpath, dynasty, etc..
God-ordained BJP and its heaven born leaders can do no wrong, if they ever do then there will be 100000+ word justification. Right, Vijay?
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:07 am
The Congress will eventually throw us on the path of another partition by dividing everythign on religious lines. Just watch out…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:43 am
I am watching.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:14 am
I can bet my last rupe that the COngress will raise the communal pitch higher by 2014 and then probably get things to total divission by 2019.
The work of Sardar Patel wold be undone by idiots who never got proper degrees…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Don’t bet all of it. You should keep some for your retirement.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:07 am
And if you want bad people from the opposing end. Togadia and Raj Thakrey who are mirror images of Digviansh Singh and Slaman Khurshid.
Sad part is Singh and Khurshid are chotta baba’s mentors while Togadia and Raj Thakrey are nobody’s mentors.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:42 am
Good , that is a beginning, even though they are fringe players. Now we have to zero on to the real ………..
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:12 am
As far as the Congress goes, its communal trolls DIgviajay and Salman Khurshid are not fringe players… they are the mainstream.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 pm
We are taking about the main cast of characters from the RSS and its offshoots.
DV Sadananda Gowda became chief minister by luck: BS Yeddyurappa
“It is true that Sadananda Gowda rose to the Chief Minister’s post by virtue of his luck. Even former chief minister HD Kumaraswamy too became the chief minister by his luck. I have no role in making Sadananda Gowda as chief minister,” Yeddyurappa told reporters here.
What about himself?
Andhra Pradesh minister cancels exam to hold son’s wedding
An Andhra Pradesh minister allegedly forced the authorities of his native Srikakulam district to cancel an exam at a government college so that his son’s wedding could be held there.
He must be sacked and criminal proceedings be launched against him.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:33 am
Praful Patel also should be sacked for changing the planes to accomadate his family
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:08 am
Perhaps yes. The facts could be as follows, either he specifically instructed Air India to change the aircraft or the staff themsleves went overboard to please their master. He has asked for a (impartial) inquiry into the whole episode. Should we not wait for the inquiry to be conducted and then proceed accordingly?
The sooner the Government gets out of running businesses, the better.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:30 am
Air India had replied to a query raised through RTI that Praful Patel had sent an email
to change the aircrafts. Now as usual spin doctors are trying to save the face of the
government and again as usual they will get away with this fiasco also.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:00 am
If so, then he should go.
Asimilation of Shoeb
you will remember last year Riswan had in a furious argument said, I AM LIKE ANY SHARMA, AGRAWAL OR SINGH AND WILL SPEAK MY MIND
That sentence imaled on heart of bloggers here like melody. Someone said it made his day, someone said Indias future NOW looks secure. It was turning moment for our young handsome turk Riswan, in his anger he revealed self. Shoeb in that statement was ssimilation. Like in yours Shoeb, and in Syed and Parvez
And look at beauty of India, WHO IS NOT ASIMILATED, it is an angry twisted mona sikh called Ravi and a white skin worshipper, last of kind, supposedly a doctor cingulate shan
That was point I made about asimilation, where egerich is scared and Ravi supportef his insecurity. Like congress. Like Amar Singh
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 8:44 pm
He He He He He He He
40watt, slack jawed,need a check up from the neck up,e tard, FOREST GRUMP
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:54 am
pagdi sambhal jatta.learn something from lebnon.a small country having 14 stinctly different people live peacefully and solve their problem.i am not scared.but assimilation means slavery of brhmns.a rabbit cannot become dog.dog can enslave rabbit.
Probe reveals Hindu terror network
You are near the source than I am.
Please may I have a comment?
Two right-wing extremists who died in Nanded while making explosive devices received arms training in Dewas along with alleged Samjhauta Express bomber Kamal Chauhan, National Investigation Agency investigators have learnt.
“Two right-wing extremists — Himanshu Panse and Naresh Rajkondowar — died while making a bomb on April 6, 2006, in Nanded (in Maharashtra). Panse and Rajkondowar had participated in the Bagli training camp (near Dewas in MP) along with Kamal Chauhan,” an official said.
Sources said the training camp had been organised by RSS pracharak Sunil Joshi in January 2006. Joshi was shot dead in mysterious circumstances in December 2007 in Dewas.
During the camp, Joshi’s close aide Ramji Kalsangra gave a demonstration of an improvised explosive device (IED) blast.
Panse led the Nanded group, which was allegedly behind the blasts at three mosques in Maharashtra, one in 2003 and two in 2004. All took place after the Friday afternoon prayers. The same thing happened in Malegaon on September 8, 2006.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:49 am
iseliye sonijee ko pani pee pee ke koste hain.they are the sleeping cells of imperialism and local fascism.ready to stand an start killing whenever their foreign AQAS(masters)ask.like in libya and now in syria.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:00 am
Earlier (from 1992-93 Bombay blasts onwards) the police (even from states where the Congress was in power) for reasons known only to themselves would invariably presume that the bomb blasts were the handiwork of the Muslims, without ever ‘wondering’ why would they (Muslims) primarily target their own. The inevitable result was a dead-end in investigations. Only when the events of bombs/devices going off while making them that they woke up to threat and terror from right-wing Hindu outfits.
Having woken up to the ground reality, the police and security establishment is more open-ended in investigations.
Though, these terror outfits may or may not have support (overt or covert) from the diabolical RSS, they are the products of the same ideology of hate.
Here is the latest
Hindu group admits role in Haryana blasts
Five people arrested by Patiala Police in connection with a series of blasts in Haryana are associated with a Jind-based Hindu terror group, Azad Sangthan. The five accused had been arrested earlier by Haryana Police on similar charges but were released on bail.
They were allegedly involved in a blast near a madrasa in Jind in 2010 and another near a Transport Union office in Safidon in August 2010. But, they got bail as police failed to file chargesheet in time.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:44 am
Part of the reason Police would dismiss away the involvement of extreme fringe hindu groups in bomb blast has something to do with the legacy. Traditionally, the modus operandi of these groups has been rioting and not planting bombs. This was convenient as it was easy to cite the “popular sentiment”. Plus at times there was connivance of state apparatus too . (Remember the 92 riots ?).
However, with the overall waning of communal polity – it is now becoming increasingly difficult to incite and instigate riots. At the same time the extreme fringe is not yet completely absorbed in the organisations that spawned them, plus the extreme fringe is unable to come to terms with the reality of waning comuunalism. That makes it unhinged and free radicals. My sense is – despite not having a very broad organisational base , these free radicals can still commit extremely dangerous actions, mostly out of desperation.
Somewhat relatedly, 92-93 and 2002 riots has seen similar extreme fringe from Muslims as well. Clearly, for different reasons.
Interestingly enough, like the fundoos and mullahs these nuts too are probably feeding off each other’s presence.
Only an impartial, secular no-nonsense state that refuses to engage in communal-speak will make it even more difficult for fringe elements sustain. Any other deviation will only end up in more support gains for these nuts.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:05 am
Now wait for the chief abuser to butt in with his standard labeling and balderdash to go with it.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:08 am
‘ Only an impartial, secular no-nonsense state that refuses to engage in communal-speak will make it even more difficult for fringe elements sustain. Any other deviation will only end up in more support gains for these nuts. ‘
If there is such a political party and if it gets a chance to rule, we will see a huge positive
change in our country.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:21 am
Agreed. Tragically, we don’t have one that matters.
Communal polity is really an aberration that is preventing discussion on economic matters from acquiring centrestage.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:37 am
For that to happen, the present leadership across parties have to go.
Not only one political party to rule, the party(s) in the opposition have to follow the same principles, differing only on economic and social policy parameters.
As we have agreed, keep that damn religion confined to within the four walls of one’s ……
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:02 am
but at present we are like jurrasic park.
True faces of Urdu speaking Punjabis (brothers of Ravi and Enrich). This is where gutter rat Ravi and Enrich come from where women call each other prostitute in TV debate, men assault each other…Today I feel proud of Manish Tiwari and arrogant congressis who are 1000% better than these converted Islamic Jahils.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:01 am
Engrich sufers from Jehadi loose motions every few days and spoils various blogs like he did for Zia. And his chela from Tora bora has to applaud…
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:58 am
i am not punjabi.thanks god.
I hereby bestow on you on behalf of all the bloggers the title ofHT BLOG PROFESSOR OF RADIOASTRONOMY AND THEORETICAL PHYSICS
Anonymous Reply:February 21st, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Which fact you did not know that Manohar has stated? I find it unbelievable that you find Manohar’s stuff Informative. For a person like you it should be part of general knowledge.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:34 pm
I knew most if not all of it , but his elucidation clearly shows his grasp on the subject
Manohar posted an excellent disc on celestial bodies.
Rajeev posted a most disturbing collection of videos on the steady slide of political discourse in The Pakistani politics and politics. I have been watching this disturbing deterioration of all aspects on civil Pakistani society for last 10 years. I shudder to think this excitable country has the nukes.
Usman your opinion please.
Balwinder, you finished brilliantly what Ashish started- taking head on Ravi and engerich’s fear of assimilation and integration. You showed very nicely that in the constant sneering of Hindu society and India, Ravi and ramavtar stand apart from India, unable to really revel in its beauty, its strengths and its rising soft power.
And that dovetails neatly with what Sonam said about me, about my leit motif, my very own takia kalaam- SWAABHIMAAN. And yes Sonam, you are right there is more abhimaan in me than swabhimaan which I try to inject others with. Well spotted Sir
The Yorkshire dales are very cold tonight and very windy, I shall measure my half glass of mahua
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:44 am
Dr. Mishra, Shan and Mohan
Thank you for the kind words re: my attempt to explain the Big Bang Theory.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 9:22 am
I think theoritical physics may one day really re-define what exactly is vacuum. Maybe we would come closer to understanding why planets form and why they cannot be an end to the Universe.
Just makes me wistfull that I never pursued this line once when I was being egged by teachers to to take a different career…
So despite our considerable differences in opinion we do have a common interest in physics.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:54 pm
“So despite our considerable differences in opinion we do have a common interest in physics”.
Just about. Small mercies.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:57 am
Hindu society and India, Ravi and ramavtar stand apart from India, unable to really revel in its beauty, its strengths and its rising soft power.
mishrajee kutch aap boliye kuch hum bolen.jis country ke ek chote shahar mein doctors ke paas 130 crore nikla ho up health scandal mein 10000 crore choree kar liya gaya ho.bhopal gas victims ka paisa choree kar liya gaya ho use hun kis muhn se achcha kahoin.balwinder jee ke to har baat sar aankhon par .
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Please re paste the link. I somehow have missed it.
Well people fed on trivia of what chacha Nehru said and tthe color of sari Priyanka wore will not be able to understand this. So dont strain your head.
I can already hear noises…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 3:59 pm
I wonder if you got it at all !
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:26 am
Maybe I did not !
This “we” versus “you” debate reminded me of an incomplete chat I had with Ravi in Chikermane blog long ago. Topic was Indonesia not allowing Ahmadiyas to call themselves as Muslims. I joking said, maybe they should call themselves Hindus. For them, we will create a Ahmadiya caste who can pray in Mosque and can also celebrate Diwali. Ravi pulled my leg, what about Islam. Did not know what to say. On a serious note, seeds of Islam or Christianity may be outside, but the way they are practiced in India (Like babas, fakirs of Islam, even casteism) makes them indigenous. British might have introduced tea leaves, but masala chai is ours. (Give us few more years, we will serve Pizza with coconut chutney). A stupid thought, will scrapping away the word “Hindu” where every community is individually identified can solve this minority/majority debate? (In Bihar, Muslims Yadavs and Dalits all are roughly 16% of population. No one can be called as minority or majority). Or label these religions also as yet another caste in Hinduism. This “we/you” problem can be sorted out. Before someone kick me for the bs, let me sing my favorite rant one more time. Bring uniform civil code.
@Sonam, thanks for your words. Would love to read your contribution to the blog. My wish is not to see you as any of those in your list. But as yourself.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 3:30 am
Uniform civil code ? Have you stirred the hornet’s nest? I am sure many of the fellow
bloggers will have strong views on this subject .
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:49 am
uniform civil code is opposed more by hindus than muslim.in a country full of diversities unform civil code will not work.
Ravi Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:58 am
AshishC Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 am
Man always had many identities- his occupation, his village, his affluence or lack thereof and later his religion and in India his caste- other than his core identity as father, son, husband, etc..
Relabeling religion as a caste will not help; that is assuming engrich (sorry ol’ chap, just pulling yr leg) and his cohorts even agree to call themselves Hindus in the first place.
~~ CONGRESS NOW WANTS TO MUZZLE THE ELECTION COMMISSION ~~
Another institution would now soon be made a slave of the Congress and its lawyers. S Y Qureshi the CEC believes that the Congress is enacting laws to destroy the electrol code on how the candidate should behave.
The Indian Express carries a full aritcle on how the GOM is now going to muzzle the EC.
Change the umpire… change the rules of the game… just to ram in your communal agenda… That is the COngressi philosphy
India has its own Muridke, it is called Dewas.
We now know who goes there for top-up traing. Don’t we??
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:10 am
Yes, we do.
God alone how many such centres operate away from the limelight.
Ravi Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:22 am
Silence from the chief abuser is deafening
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:29 am
Gr8 !! Unable to see the major worldwide terror unleashed by lakhs of suicide bombers unleashed on the entire world from Muridke for decades. And then try to justify it by trying to equate small occurences (which too are bad) to obfuscate!
Beautifull lob over the playfield !!
Ravi Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:57 am
Time and again Vijay totally and without any evidence accuses me of supporting Islamic Terrorism. I Do’nt and never ever have. Many many people have told him of this erroneous clap trap and this fantasy which he seems to have created for his own personal entertainment. I abhor A L L form of terrorism and condemn it.
The simple difference between us is that Vijay and some others here refuse to acknowledge that Terrorism and Riots are an RSS policy. This it has been practicing for a number of decades. So for the sake of clarity. All terrorism is bad and I condemn it. This includes terrorism perpetrated by Islamic fundos and that which is perpetrated by Hindu Fundos. What-ever their relative volumes.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:01 am
You are a shamelessly lying Islamic fundoo.
You have always supported terrorists, particularly LeT and JuD and their kind of terrorism, facilely saying that it is all reaction to Hindu terror.
You have also unabashedly supported Osama Bin Laden.
If you are now trying for an image make-over, it will fail totally, ab initio, because you are a trained infiltrator, to work in places like this blog.
Ascribing all terror violence to RSS may get you claps from the congressi troll and may be from Mahesh, but it will not wash your own true colours away.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:17 am
I think we should allow Ravi to change his thinking and go for a makeover. Everyone deserves a second chance in case they reform.
Hopefully he will detatch himself from Engrich.
The real taste of the pudding will happen whenever there is a terror occurance and whether he sides with the fundoos in Muridke or we the sufferers in India.
i wish Ravi all the best in his effort to change and become humane and human.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 am
“Detaching” himself from his jihadi ustaad may be very painful. Engrich may even come to Ravi’s house and blow himself up with 5kg of RDX.
As for the ‘image make over’, do you think he has grown the walrus mustache only for this purpose?
Ravi Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:06 am
Shamelessly lying. So let me remind you. Gopi, Aloke, Ashish, Mahesh, Manohar, Prabhat, Vinay and others have repeatedly said that they have never ever read anything that I have written which supports the activities of LeT, or for that matter any other Islamic Terrorist Organisations. They are not all congressis.
You have been asked – on more than one occasion to provide some proof and you have never done that. The reason is that you have never been concerned about truth.
What you are asking people to believe is that real deep down I support Islamic Terrorism and deny it here just so that I can get an approving response from Manohar. You may play games like that, I do not. Shame on you.
Once again I abhor A L L form of terrorism – Islamic as well as Hindu, if you know otherwise then provide some proof.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Just ignore them. They are on Operation Hounding.
As for the chief abuser – his are devious attempts to practise Goebbelsian – “repeat a lie thousand times, it becomes a truth’.
Perhaps, he does that to convince himself. Other than Vijay, no one else seems to take cognizance of his blatant attempts.
I repeat my favourite line – lies, falsehoods, untruths and innuendos are the tools to character assassinate others.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:05 pm
As the chief abuser of India and Hindus and also as the chief supporter of jihadi terror, you can look deep into your own store house of posts.
To jog your memory, around this time last year, you were being considered for a kick in the behind by none other than Vinod Sharma. Perhaps those memories must be causing sense of shame and bitterness. You also left it, in the end to Dr.Mishra to decide whether you should continue to be on the blog.
Therefore, I get the impression that YOU HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED BY YOUR MINDERS TO GO THE WHOLE HOG FOR A MAKE OVER, WITH WALRUS MUSTACHE AND ALL.
Ravi Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 9:18 pm
Another figment of a warped Hindu Fundo mind.
Nothing like that ever happened.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:45 am
Time and again Vijay totally and without any evidence accuses me of supporting Islamic Terrorism.
they both are immature and bit joker.forget what they say.
India better off under British rule, says RSS chief
Nashik: Expressing concern over the dominance of ‘rich and powerful people’ in politics, besides soaring inflation, RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat said India was better off during the British rule.
“After Independence, the dominance of rich and powerful people in politics and rising inflation have worsened the country’s situation, which is worse than what it was during the British rule,” he said.
Speaking at a function here, he said, “All political parties were in power some or the other time during the last 64 years since Independence, but the situation has not improved. Hence, citizens must introspect over what went wrong.” TNN
Never mind who said it. That is not the point. Even my mother used to say they were much happier under the British.
Any thoughts of what he has to say. We can only make conjectures, as none of us were born then or were grown ups to know.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:43 am
yes during british raj brtsh brhmn nexus was looting india ith full sincerity and speed.
Something interesting – tumours treated by electric fields.
Read on at :
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 8:42 am
Interesting article. I sincerely hope that some thing seriously is done for the cure of
this deadly disease. Recently a close relative of mine a young boy of 27 years died
of pancrea cancer.
by Muzamil Jaleel
The bombing of the Israeli diplomat’s car in New Delhi last week got linked to the Iran-Israel conflict, but there’s another disquieting dimension to it that’s gone largely unnoticed and could have far-reaching consequences across South Asia. It’s the other conflict in the Middle East, also involving Iran, between Shias and Sunnis. It is the competition for influence and leadership between Shia Iran and Sunni Salafi Saudi Arabia.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:22 am
It is the competition for influence and leadership between Shia Iran and Sunni Salafi Saudi Arabia
it is war for oil.the moment america leaves things will be calm.this capitalist and zoinist war on the the people of this area.
@Ashish and Nirad CHoudhary
A few posting back Nirad babu Choudhary boasted about Pashcim Banga’s tranquility and non violence. I tried to politely remind him that Banga was a very violent region right through 60’s, 70’s 89’s, 90′ till today. You just had to look at
a) Industrial violence
b) Violence against parties and persons opposed to those in power.
Well true to form, as I had pointed out, the TMC is now doing what the CPM did to those opposed to it. NDTV is just flashing news that TMC workers have hacked CPM workers…. in a manner which the CPM would do habitually as it exterminated all opposition.
Gr8 !! My violence cannot be prettier than yours… can it be?
AshishC Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:26 am
time and again, in discussions with Manohar on this blog I have maintained that it is not about CPM and Mamata- it is about the huge deterioration of standards in Bengal.
CPM in Bengal is an interesting case study by itself- it was headed by leaders from upper/ upper-middle class- the education, polish and sophistication a veneer to the ruthless party apparatus.
A bong is fascinated by gentility- the visible signs of gentility are education (degrees), culture (books and CDs)and some approved pastimes (museum, art exhibitions). They do love money but not the act of creating wealth.
Bongs also have a love for the abstruse (Das Kapital). The leaders of CPM fit the aspirational bong image perfectly.
The gentility of the leadership of CPM hid the malodorous face of 90% of the cadre. So, you compared Jyoti Basu with Subrata Mukherjee/ Priya Munshi/ Somen Mitra and frankly, there was really no choice.
Now, the love has turned sour- but, much as Mamata may try, she does not provide the veneer of respectability and sophistication for her own cadres- as thuggish or even more than CPM goons= the way Jyoti Basu or Buddhadeb did for her rivals. So, this marrriage will not last 35 years like the previous one did- I give it not more than 5.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:41 am
Well diagnosed. I always get puzzled about bongs. Two or three of the finest minds I have met are bongs.
I am a small appendage of Bio physics project. Probably been asked for presence becasue of entertainment value. Whenever the team runs into a dead end and in case my opinion is asked for… I always close my eyes and think of a professor Paldas who always said that any problem can only be viewed to be part of a larger whole.
Maybe somebhody has to do some plainspeaking to Paschim Banga. Where do you stand in context to the rest of India; in context to the whole world. In context to the quality of human capital available and the actual result. In context to the position Cal occupied in Asia in 1947 and now…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:39 am
Quite interesting. Marxists here in Kerala never created a thuggery, and in general provided a clean administration; one can say even “pro developmental” in the last two terms.
I wonder whether the British education (and the Zamindar upbringing) of leaders like Jyothi Basu had something to do with that, whereas the Kerala cadre such as EMS, AKG, Mrs Gowri Thomas (she left CPM a while ago), etc were educated in India. Achuthanandan did not have much education other than high school; but was an honest man committed to improving people’s lives. He was (and is) constantly fighting with the money grabbing faction (headed by Vijayan) that leads the state party.
AshishC Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:09 pm
Well, I don’t really know if other than Jyoti Basu and Somnath Chatterjee, there were others that will answer to the description of zamindar upbringing. To my knowledge, Harekrishna Konar, Pramode Dasgupta and Saroj Mukherjee came from pretty normal families.
Nope, no theories…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:21 pm
“Achuthanandan did not have much education other than high school”
I have said before, if you want to slam someone and you do, even a broken nail would be enough.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:35 pm
‘ they do love money but not th act of creating wealth ‘
Even I would like to earn money without slogging for the same. The problem is
no one gives it for free.
Nice to read your small post. From your pic, I can guess you are in my age bracket—23-24. Anyway, I am Parvez– a management student of Delhi univ and am making a quick posting between classes.
I think you should not go by what this madman Enriqch writes. You know as well as I do, that they are enough goats out there trying to control our minds through bullshit and trying to shepherd us into the arms of fundoos who just about try to control all aspects of our lives. To Engriq I always say
“HIJRA NANGA HO GAYA HAI AUR NAACH RAHA HAI….”
Gandhi was a special guy who was loved by Hindus and Muslims of India and hated by a small section of HIndus and Muslims for his truthfulness and fairness. Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan– also known as Frontier Gandhi was his partner in opposing British rule. My mother’s family somewhere traces our history to Abdul Ghaffar Khan. Ghaffar Khan opposed partition as much as Gandhi did. Both of them — independently religious–stood for dignity of man.
Gandhi was absolutely fair even to the extent of going on fast to GIVE 55 CRORES TO THE NEWLY CREATED STATE OF PAKISTAN which made him terribley unpopular, especially with Hindus who had suffered during partition. It would be a sad day in case we forget his role in uniting a country which could have well become 50 countries with independent states as big as your handkerchief in what is now India and Pakistan.
Sorry for the lecture. But just reminding you that in India too we have our share of fundamantalists like enriqh who would want us to to toe the line of hatred
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 9:05 am
Well articulated. I would love to know more about Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan. I beleive his son/ grandson have a political party in Pakistan. Maybe Usman would higlight on how they are rated.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:40 am
khan abdul ghaffar khan was cheated by ghandhi,when pressed the case of partition in cwg meeting.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:37 pm
to be more clear,ghandhjee pressed the members of cwg to vote for partition though he personally promised ghaffar khan and maulana azad to oppose it.pulicly he said that ,PAKISTAN HAMATI LAASH PAR BANEGA.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 9:16 am
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 9:38 am
a very big slap on the nanga hijra.
I would very much like you to be independent in your thoughts and writings.
Be influenced by all thoughts , but be swayed off your feet by none.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:05 am
The muhawaara is wonderful !
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:38 am
what about my awnser.
shenoyv a brhmn killed ghandhi like street dog and distributed sweets all over india.a practice w hich is continued even today.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:32 pm
I had enough of you criticizing and degrading Mahatmaji. Dead man cannot defend — so shut up
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:35 pm
u can defend him.his life is open to everybody.point me where i am wrong.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Except… by the gentle smiles of girls…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Of course, gently smiling or sweetly winking girls deserve most gentlemanly responses.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:18 am
“HIJRA NANGA HO GAYA HAI AUR NAACH RAHA HAI
aur tumhai gaand maar raha hai
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:19 am
Very bad language! Usman and Pervez are students baba… why abuse?
You should reform as even Rizwan had suggested to you.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am
u were applausing when he was abusing me.though i am more than age of his father.if u or he have doubt anywhere check from.i always write truth.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:10 pm
The reforms begin with oneself. Give that advice to your chief abuser here too, unless he is beyond repair and you have the nerve to do so. Stop practising double standards.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:25 pm
If you are talking about Shenoy, I think you are off the mark. he has never used vulagrity and obscene language. There is a huge difference between wit and obscenity.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:07 pm
In that case, we live on different planets and I understand your predicament.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:36 am
Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan– also known as Frontier Gandhi was his partner in opposing British rule
jahil ghandhi was never against british rule.he personally promised ghaffar khan and mualana azad to oppose partition,but in cwg meeting he was supported and insisted for partition.he was liar.
u say that,
Gandhi was absolutely fair even to the extent of going on fast to GIVE 55 CRORES TO THE NEWLY CREATED STATE OF PAKISTAN which made him terribley unpopular, especially with Hindus who had suffered during partition
muslims suffered 4 times than hindus.hindus were not looted by **** muslims.in india rss goons looted everything.opposing to pakistan share of 55 crores was the deed of microminority rss.this also shows narrowmindedness and cheating mentality of certain class of brhmncl society.
jinnah or muslims never wanted pakistan.they were forced by nehru to ask pakistan after he refused 2 cabinet seats to muslims.
moreover rss was practising for ghandhi murder in gwalior palace from 2 years before his actual murder.they killed him and distributed sweets all over india.
there are many lies about ghandhi in indian media.what i have written about ghandhi is true if u have doubt challenge me.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:31 am
I request you to participate constructively , rather than bringing in here your usual nonsense of brahmins/jews or other rubbish conspiracy theories.
Parvez, Rizwan , Viju etc are excellent young men. India is safe with youngsters like them. Please do not make them run away from here.
Similarly, Usman seems to be a well-rounded young man who will do great things for Pakistan. Dont run him away too.
You know that you single-handedly destroyed your fellow Muslim Zia Haq’s blog – it used to have 800-900 entries, now look at that.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 am
it used to have 800-900 entries
it reached to 1600 becuse of me.if we all go again it will reach same peak.
regarding my writings.i found out many mistakes in you and ur writing.i pointed them to you.u never awnsered and prefer to keep quite.
i wrote so many blogs recent one on ghandhi.if u disagree anywhere tell me.i promise iw ill clarify ur doubts.what i wrote is 100%truth.some time truth is sour,what can i do.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:50 am
pakistani bloggers are far more civilised and well read than us.they dont try to cheat or bluff the readers.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I wish i could live up to expectations. Even though difficult to retain ones form.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Thank you for the delightful comment.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Wise guess dude. I’m 25. Thanks for your post.
Engrich claims that spirituality is the fascism of Hindus and uses other adjectives also.
Here is an article written by a Muslim and published in a paper in a Muslim country.
Contemporary Muslims are in need of spirituality.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 11:37 am
mohan what i say that hindus call their spiritual fascism as non voilence.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Is there anything called culinary fascism or zionism ?
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Tariq Ramdan is a respected professor.
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:24 pm
mohan idea of tariq ramadan is right.world is in grip of voilent zoinism.muslim societies,with the help of cia and america are controlled by wahabism(muslim zoinism).till these forces are not neutralized sufism will remain suppres.let us see.recenltly russia and china has vetoed their proposal in un to attack syria.temporarily dogs aof war are chained.hopefor the best.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Thanks for the link. Good reading.
@Anindyo and vijay kumar khanna
india’s largest selling (8lakhs) vernacular paper , Ananda Bazar patrika
described CPM once in its editorial column as Bangalir priyo Party
roughly translated Bengalees favourite party.
CPM EPITOMISES BENGALEE MINDSET
And that is I DO NOT MIND BEING POOR , SO LONG YOU ARE NOT RICH AND PREFERABLY POOR
This ANTI BUSINESS/ENTERPRISE is deep rooted in contemporary bengalee society and culture.EVEN SATYAJIT RAY IS NOT IMMUNE TO THIS PREJUDICE.Most of the authors have painted business class
(read Marwaris) as corrupt , crook and nothing else.
Also Business is something beneath a BHADROLOK.
But it was not like this at all
BENGAL CHEMICAL was one of the first indian venture into chemical industry.
BENGAL IMMUNITY made vaccines .
All changed with CPM
Now the slogan was Boroloker chamra diye gariber juto
A poor’s shoe will be made from the hide of the rich.
and another jem
Aashi jai mainey pai , kaj korley upri chai
Aatey jatey tankha miley ,kam kare to upri miley
I had discussed this in detail in zia’s blog 2yrs ago , THE MAIN REASON IS AVALANCHE OF REFUGEE POST PARTITION
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Your observation/conclusions make sense.
However, regarding Anand Bazar Patrika – I read somewhere that Malayala Manorama (run by the Mammen Mathew Mappila family here) has a circulation of 16 lakhs and is the largest selling non-Hindi newspaper.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 12:24 pm
” I DO NOT MIND BEING POOR , SO LONG YOU ARE NOT RICH AND PREFERABLY POOR”
Is this a Bengali mindset or a normal human nature ?
Mkss Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 1:18 pm
IT IS NORMAL HUMAN NATURE.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:18 pm
This is what I have learnt from my few years in business
I DONT mind if the unknown man on the road earns crores…but if I see my brother or close friend get money… I get a stomach ache … and blood pressure….. !
Stupid as it may sound. But that is the way the world works and I see it happening with so many clients… and acquantances !
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Sad but true. This is the normal human nature, but somehow
we try to blame to on caste, religion, nationality etc.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Small correction – Dainik Jagran is the largest selling vernacular paper catering to 2.7 million readers daily.
Does anyone have any workaround for the navigation issue with this new outlook of the blog? I’m beginning to miss the old format at least chronologically traceable and less paging involved. Any help in this regard?
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Just below the main blog there are various options. That is choose by most popular, choose by oldest, choose by newest.
I think you should plug on to choose by newest. Everyting wil fall into place.
@Usman Chowdhury, you are using the “old Chestnut” Only book that has existed. DELUSION that is the problem with islam.
Are you are the FIRST DRAMA written during ASSYRIAN CIVILIZATION ,, known as GIGGELMUSH survived 10000yrs(yes you are reading it correct)
There may not be discrepency BUT IT HAS CARTLOAD OF CONTRADICTION, previous sura is in conflict with subsequent suras. i beleive therefore there is a technique to interpret , which abrogates the one that is in subsequent conflict.
As much you find wonderment , i would be interested to know , what you thought of the fact , that the book says EARTH IS FLAT,
CONCEPTION TAKES PLACE FROM A DROP OF BLOOD.
Serious “western scholars ” beleive Quoran is not one single work , but most likely may have evolved with time.
Also radio carbon dating puts the oldest COMPLETE version of quoran that is available at least 500yrs after the death of prophet
Once again Quran is burnt and once again people are killed. How many more
people will die in the name of religion ?
engrich Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 3:09 pm
why these dogs of war do this.afghans never insulted bible.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I think west should learn little bit about east. There are many things practiced in west that are considered taboo in east and vice versa.
This quran burning was not ill-intentioned but was because of ignorance. The muslim leadership especially the moderates should be able to differentiate between act of arrogance from act of ignorance and not inflame the situation.
The US military has apologized (due to fear of VIOLENCE) so Islamists should back down and bury this incidence.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 6:15 pm
I don’t think that these incidents are because of ignorance. These are deliberate acts,
as Westerners know how Muslims will react to such incidents. They want them to react
violently and in process discredit Islam all over the world. Whenever Muslims will
understand this game, they will start ignoring – which is a correct approach – such acts.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 7:09 pm
I disagree with you. US is smart enough to know that burning Quran can never help discredit Islam.
I know that most of the americans are totally ignorant about other cultures and religions. I am telling you this from personal experience. For them every brown skin person is either latino or muslim. They have no clue what Hinduism is and how it is different from Islam.
The problem is that americans soldiers are not as trained as Brit soldiers when it comes to cultural sensitivity.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:49 am
defeated army act like this.this is deliberate.by jews not by christians.jesus is mentioned in holy quran more than prophet mohmmed(pbuh).this is politically motivated move by zoinists of american army to strenghten muslim hatred against west and america.
I just now watched the link you had provided of the debates on Pakistan TV.
I do not have words to describe. SHOCKING.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:47 pm
When I see current pakistan, I thank Jinnah for taking out filth out of India.
Indian muslims when compared to pakistani muslims come out far more cultured and tolerant (a relative word) but if Indian muslims are provided same atmosphere as pakistan, they will behave the same. The kashmiri muslims are example of this.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:43 am
bullshit.things are other way around.it is under hindu rule that delhi has become rape capital of the world 80%of population live below poverty level.thieves and murderers are are roaming without fear.
some descipline which i see is because of soniajee.
worst part of partition was arrival of punjabis in civilized part of india .entire punjab must have been given to pakistan
~~ APARNA SEN & BENGAL CELEBERATED lovemaking and not moneymaking !!~~
@ Ashish and Cinegulate
Now after a week of restraint and gandhigiri… I have opened my bottle of Teachers…. and have a friend poring over my shoulder as I type out my words…
There was a problem of fuedalism all over India which prevented people from accesing opportunity in 1947 and socialism and communism was only logical as it talked about economic equality for all.
But i think Bengal is still stuck up with that dream, and the intellectual class and the masses have to yet to realise that economic growth and opportunity goes beyond land and labour.
The Soviet Union went extreme left and then bounced back to become russia and vaious republics. the East Europeans dittoed. UK and rest of Europe went only as far as social democracy. While China remains communist only for the premise of restricting political freedom and not economic freedom.
In India… the Kerlaite NRI was making up for the communism in kerala, but Bengal clould never sense that.
Bengal battled the Siddhartha Shankar ray years to get in CPM and yet because has not realised the urgency of increasing wealth still lives in the era where the entreprenuer is the exploiter. Well Mrinal Sen, ray and Ritwik Ghatak produced brilliant cinema… but the entrepreneur never emerged as the hero. The mill owner in Sunil gangopadhya’s novel was the exploiter… while his daughter sided up with the workers.
And Aparna Sen… what a beauty could celeberate lovemaking on 36 Chowringhee lane… but never money making !!!!!!!!!!
Ashish… go there yaaar !! Bengal entrepreneur maangta. Capitalism, new Ideas, new products… Life is pretty simple man…
You just need the right ideas…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Capitalism, new ideas, new products, all this brings prosperity. And lovemaking also becomes more interesting if you are prosperous.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:36 pm
@ MOhan sir
Experience of seniors is always helpfull for the younger gen !
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:25 pm
I think in these cases juniors are way ahead of seniors.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:34 am
but capitalism being a predatory force needs so many reform.
AshishC Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 am
I doubt I will fit into West Bengal anymore..
Who got us freedom? I suppose, UK’s bankruptcy after world war.
Who is the better leader? To each, his own. To me, Gandhi stands out because of his means. I vote him just for his response after Chauri Chaura.
Does it make him father of nation? May be to some. But as such, our country has too many idols to worship.
Gandhi’s personal habits; doesn’t bother me. Whether a person sleeps with full suit or walks naked in his house, his choice. As long as he covers his essentials in public, it is fine with me. (What should be covered may be debatable in women’s case. Hopefully there is a common consensus with regards to men). Gandhi’s experiments or Nehru’s personal equation with Edwina makes no impact on Indians. But Gandhi choosing Nehru as the leader, Nehru’s faith in China costed us.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 4:55 pm
We were simply ill prepared. False bravado does not win wars. It was definitely not a guerrilla war.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:27 pm
100% agree with you.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Agree with British losing their control owing to WW2.
That said, IMHO Jawaharlal Nehru stood taller. Especially so because of his depth of socio-economic understanding .
Not trying to demean the idealistic Mahatma – just opining a personal bias.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:29 am
ghandhi wanted to establish ram rajya.so the brhmn has to be on the top of pyramid.moreover nehru was almost like son-i-law of british imperialists.could serve their interest best.this is called,KARELA AUR NEEM CHADA.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:44 am
What should be covered may be debatable in women’s case………
what and also how much.
One thing puzzles me. India, which is much bigger in area and economy than Pak has always been worried about illegal Bangladeshi immigrants. People here fight with each other for the right share in river water. UK, one of the developed economies is tensed about eastern European country people taking away native jobs after joining EU. How is that Pak people have never gone behind Afghans in this regard and have concentrated only on US. Does Islamic brotherhood has the capacity to blur the border and mute the hunger of a common man?
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:31 pm
‘ Does Islamic brotherhood has the capacity to blur the border and mute the hunger of a common man?”
Very interesting observation. Never thought on this line. Yes, credit should go to
Islam religion for this.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:40 pm
I think you need to dig into history. Pakistan has consistently used the Afghan problem for the selfish needs of the rulers.
When Gen Zia siezed power he needed the Afghan problem to ensure that his tenure was not disturbed by the Americans. He got is F-16’s which satisfied Paksitani fauj’s macho instincts, got Charlie Wilson to get the CIA and Carter and Reagan adminstation behind him. From then on the Afghan problem was a boon to the Paksitani rulers right till today.
You just needed to blackmalil the world that “if Paksitan does not help;;; then it is fundoos with nukes. ”
The creation of Osama and his `sustenance needs to be viewed in this context.
As for domestic resentment– the tensions between Pashtuns and Mohjairs in Karachi are enough testimoney to that love.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 5:50 pm
What we get out of Pakistan is a reflection of their public discourse.
IMHO, Pakistani public discourse is hopelessly obsessed with “war on terror” .
Afghanistan is the off-shoot.
The day it gets displaced from their public discourse , trust me here, leaderships from different political factions in Pakistan will line land here for education in runniing the sociao-economic movements.
Who knows, Maoists may become really internationalist in true sense. Or , for that matter, a monetarist economist such as MMS becomes a inspirational slogan.
Rhetoric apart, the Pakistani polity needs to step beyond what currently passes for “war on terror” to really look at what it needs to represent. In the process, Subjugating its military to civilian polity.
Tall order – one would say.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:23 am
u are right.i fuly agree with u.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:22 am
Does Islamic brotherhood has the capacity to blur the border and mute the hunger of a common man
i will say yes.islam do not accept national boundaries.nationalism like communism was created by zoinists to perpetuate bloodbath.
Dear Mr. Vinod Sharma
The BJP is primarily responsible for the break-down in the communications among the political class. They have been in denial about their defeat in 2004, in a state of shock since 2009 and for some reason hold the Congress Party responsible for their two defeats, hence are on a vicious confrontation course on every issue and have succeeded to large extent in paralyzing the work of the Government. The knee-jerk reactions of the Government has added to make things worse.
This blog talks about working of NIA and how it investigates Islamic and saffron terror in different ways. It speaks volumes about competence and political bias of NIA.
~~~ exploring death—- TO UNDERSTAND LIFE !! ~~ the issue for tonight ~~~
Like I said. I am supposed to be the out of box thinker of a biophysics team for which I am a a non paid consultant till the team gets more funding.
Since it has been a pleasant day and my three pegs of Teachers have made me clairvoyant, I have picked up an issue which does not bother me as it does interest me. Death. Now why should I die… and not be like a planet or a non living thing which exists under the forces of nature– like say a rock.
Now as I had stated — a bong proffesor had once taught me some odd tricks. And despite Mamta banerji’s hysterical antics … I still have some affection for bongs
Leaving aside religious reasons which have all the explanations… I am now trying to work out simple evolutionary reasons for death. Is it just an investment into a better future for my genes?
O Boy what an intoxicating thought… enough reason to fill my glass and dig the net for more info…
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Read about programmed cell death, A cambridge scientist received nobel prize for his work on the above
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:34 am
VINAY – Pak on Afghanis””””””’
Cant believe you were so much off target when you stated that -”How is that Pak people have never atacked Afghans- is it muslim brotherhood”
I read Pakistani newspapers everyday, interact with Pakistanis here in UK daily and have been to Pak a few times. Most Pakistanis would just love to throw every Afghani back across the border- there is abs no love lost there. They look down on Afghanis and hold them reponsible for drugs and other crime.
Muslim brotherhood? wow wherever did you get the that idea, particularly in the case of Pakistan !!! Their rape and murders in Bangladesh was legendary, not like Ravi’s asinine claim that 5000 dalit women are raped by high caste men everyday in India.
Even within Pakistan, ‘targetted’ killings- what a macabre phrase, by the way- of Shia doctors and teachers, of Ahmadiyas, the disappearance of Balochis etc lays complete waste to the ‘muslim brotherhood theory’
RAZA RUMI, THE FAMOUS JOURNALIST WROTE OF A REAL LIFE INCIDENT LAST YEAR WHEN A PRIVATE SCHOOL EDUCATED MEDICAL STUDENT IN PAK SAID TO HIM EARNESTLY- ‘ why just Ahmadiyas, even Shias should be wajib-ul-qatal’
see the brilliant link posted by Rajeev- it is a window into a very disturbed society
Dr Mishra Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 7:19 pm
rajeev on the previous page wrote-
‘ Indian muslims when compared to pakistani muslims come out far more cultured and tolerant but if Indian muslims are provided same atmosphere as pakistan, they will behave the same. The kashmiri muslims are example of this’
now this is very hard hitting and brutal but has a ring of truth in it. But there are exceptions-
1. Last year in Radisson Mahabalipuram I met many Tamil muslims- very moderate
-2. I regularly meet Gujrati muslims here and in India- they are a class apart, very good businessmen and great Indophiles
MJ Akbar also said- ‘why is it that when we muslims are in a minority, we clamour for secular democracy but the moment we are in majority that we demand sharia !!!’
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 7:51 pm
The kind of muslims that you are talking about are in minority and are on defensive due to rapid radicalization of muslim youth post 9/11.
The Barelvi and Sufi sects of Islam are moderate but due to pressure within Islamic community to prove who is true muslim, Barelvis have been moving towards deobandi position day by day.
There is another problem with muslim community. They use violence as FIRST option in their protests whereas all other communities resort to violence only as very very last resort. The recent protests in Afghanistan against Quran burning, is the very recent example of this tendency. This tendency is the reason people retaliate against muslims using hate speech, discrimination etc. The non-muslm countries provide muslims legal platforms to get their voices heard but in case of muslim countries no such option exists for non-muslims. Actually non-muslims in muslim countries have valid reason to use violence because of lack of options but we find them subdued because muslim whether in power or outside power use brute force to subjugate others.
There will be backlash…and it will be a sad day for both communities.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:58 am
to a large extent i agree with u.cia and zoinists are creating situation where extremists like deobandis will flourish.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:30 am
I didn’t say anything about zionists. The muslims should blame themselves for their present condition.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:17 am
MJ Akbar also said- ‘why is it that when we muslims are in a minority, we clamour for secular democracy but the moment we are in majority that we demand sharia
this is human nature and true for hindus ,hindus jews as well.thinking changes with circumtances.
now muslims of up who forms 21%have decided to have their own party and try to rule instead of supporting dalit backwards or so called secular congress.all these groups are less than 10%.kerala type politics will emerge in bihar and west bengal as well.
it is because of large muslim population that hindus of kerala and west best bengal goes for secular politics for the same reason.
hindus proved themselves to be rabid communalist and narrow minded as compare to muslim countries where things are more better as far as human treatment i concerned.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 am
Ravi is changing. Why dont you also improve your outlook and become a good Indian rather than a Good jehadi?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:29 am
Tamilian Muslims are by nature ’satvik’, un-militant and concerned mostly with bread-and-butter issues. They live in harmony with the Hindus of their own social status.
Kerala Muslims, on the other hand, have had it good, because of the gulf connection. Prosperity, while improving their economic conditions beyond measure, has also made them, at least large sections of them, militant, anti-Hindu and pro-Pakistan, as if to balance their anti-Hindu fundamentalism.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:42 am
When Babri Masjid was razed, here in Dubai, Muslims from
Kerala had come out on street to protest and damaged few
shops. However, police immediately came into action and
took control of the situation.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:22 am
IMHO, it has less to do with their being Muslims and communal.
The reasoning goes something like this….
Kerala is a highly politicised state. Which in effect co-relates with average Keralite being strongly opininionated about social and political issue. The Babri Masjid incident was one such big incident – and a political one at that.
Second thing to look for is the Indian demographics pattern in Dubai. The demographics probably exhibits more fragmentation among non Mallus (both Muslims and non-Muslims) in terms of geographical spread, which essentially makes Mallu Muslims a sizable closely staying chunk of population.
Actually, I won’t be surprised if the word “mini kerala” is making rounds amongst Indian community in Dubai.
These two factors make them a vocal community – which probably found a expression . Nothing more Nothing less.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:34 am
I posted what actually happened here, and yes, what you say, does makes sense.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Afghabistan is in the minds of paistan a country which s thiers. Strategic deoth means Afghanistan is part of Paksitan.
Anonymous Reply:February 22nd, 2012 at 7:57 pm
Vijay & Dr.Mishra,
The relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan is very complex.
1. Pakistan considers Afghanistan as its backyard and strategic depth against India.
2. Pakistan has always supported fundamentalists in Afghanistan and helped them usurp and maintain power.
3. Pakistan has no love for ordinary Afghans who hate Pakistanis to the core for their hypocrisy and support to Taliban like forces.
But at the end of the day they consider Pakistan as brother country because of common religion (very much on the lines of Bangladeshis).
The only way to change this equation is to introduce third non-fundoo force in the equation which will be friendly to Afghans. That force is shaping up in the form of Balochistan. The day Balochistan comes into existence, Afghanistan will be able to stand up to Pakistani hegemony.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:06 am
My sister is on a UN posting to Afghanistan. She swears that most Afghans would love to have Indians run the show there instead of the America, Europeans and Paksitans whom they detest and hate
MERA BHARAT KAMAAL
For folks who cannot access the Ananda bazar patrika, the vernacular paper from Calcutta,By the way its claim of being the largest circulation may be from a single site.rather than printed from several cities.
There is a PAKISTANI SPY nabbed in Calcutta .He lived there for last three years , GOT DRIVING LICENSE, RATION CARD, AND EVEN INDIAN PASSPORT.
he was working as a chauffer to a retired army officer.
He got caught when applied for a visa to travel pakistan WITH HIS INDIAN PASSPORT.This is one more “CONTRIBUTION” of CPM Govt , during its tenure IT USED TO BE A SAFE HAVEN FOR TERRORISTS UNDER THE BANNER OF ISLAM.
It is hundreed times more ISLAM appeasing to secure its vote bank than CONgress.
Another news the NDTV AND HT PURPOSEFULLY omitted.
Mamata is going to fight tooth and nail , and oppose the BANDH called by the vermin CPM (bjp is also there) on 26th Feb.
Already taking part in political union by policestaff has been banned by her.
She has also sent out notice , whoever does not turn up on 26th without valid reason WILL LOSE THAT DAYS WAGE.
WE LIVE IN HOPE
@MohanR , my condolences on your bereavement. @Mahesh , Thanks for the link, every now and then something new comes up. I will write in detail on cancer , it is my subject.
Few facts may interest you.
The amount of money spent on cancer research , you can make a return trip to moon some hundreed times.
It is not a new diisease , indians called it Karkat , meaning crab like , the zodiac sign cancer.Even mummies had it.
Most animals get it , even fish can get cancer.
Some cancer we clearly know the link , that is 1%, 99% we haven’t got a clue.
More when I get some time
for mamata baiters and haters
I never thought a government hospital could be so clean. At first, I thought it was a nursing home and was afraid that my husband would have to pay a lot,” said Rubina Biwi, who was referred to Abinash Dutta from RG Kar. “The doctors assured me it was a government hospital and we need not pay,” she said, relieved.
Read more http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120223/jsp/calcutta/story_15164055.jsp
This is the best quote on thick minded Rahul-
“He has confused minority communalism with secularism and entitlements with development.”
I found it quite discriminatory , and so I rang up my friend , a senior guy in SBI , that my company should be threatened by a declaration of NPA , merely for overdrawing the ODI limit by 30 crs and here you work out a bail out of more than 1200 crores for a company which is already sunk..so my friend said get the Minister to arm-twist the Bank….the nexus between Crony capitalism and a dishonest political executive can sink any economy . The pattern is quite common. Start a Pvt Ltd Co….suppress income … make profits on the sly…then plan for IPO … raise fake invoices … boost income …bring IPO… raise public money… raise turnover….build a network of dealers who can put in fake purchase bills … raise black money….launder it ..thru Mauritous or Timbuktoo …invest in newer businesses …go on milking the company…let it starve and die a slow death. Start the process again.
HC orders Mumbai Congress chief’s assets attached
The Bombay High Court on Wednesday directed the city police commissioner to register an FIR against senior Congress leader Kripashankar Singh for ” criminal misconduct” under the Prevention of Corruption Act and ordered the attachment of his and his immediate family’s movable and immovable properties worth crores.
A good decision.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:19 am
Some time back… Sujata Anandan of HT in her blog had given a certificate of honesty to Kripa sham …
In fact given folk tales on how he refuses money
Just shows how far the press goes to protect Congress crooks,
I agree and that is why I posted the news item.
BTW, another fact is how far others go to protect Modi.
Mention 2002 and as a reflex action 1984 is taken out of that hat, as it is happening here today. Agree?
still another fact is how far others go to protect ‘witty’ saathidaars. Agree?
Of course, I will not use the word crooks.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:54 am
Does Modi needs protection ? Whole government machinery and some sections of media together
since last 10 years is trying to implicate him for Gujarat riots
but have failed to do so.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:24 am
Me was talking facts about the going ons on this blog. I posted a link and immediately there was a reaction and a balm available under the brand name ‘1984′ was taken out.
A Congress leader says that if they dont get the majority in UP than they will not
allow anyone else also to rule this state.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:55 am
Very sad !!
But let me tell you something which will make you smile. Last night I was researching death and why we all need to die. And now tantalizingly….
There is a species of spiders called the Tarantula. Here the male walks willingly to the death trap to ensure his genes are passed on. And it happens while mating….
The female just EATS up the male as soon as he impregnates her !!
Just tells a lot about the male species…
And a huge amount of truth about the female species !
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:31 am
Mr. Jaiswal must be out of his mind to say such a thing. He should be told to go take a walk.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:38 am
forget UP, Bihar and all the rest.
Want to have a hearty laugh? Here it goes:
Interview in a Govt Dept. under d Handicap Quota.
Interviewer: R you handicapped?
Guy: Yes sir, I lost my testicles in a bomb blast.
Interviewer: ‘OK, you are selected! Working hours will be 9am to 5pm. Make sure that you are here at 11am everyday
Puzzled, the guy asks: Why 11 when the timing is from 9AM?
Interviewer: Its a govt job. First 2 hrs we just sit around scratching our balls. What the **** will you do?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:39 am
I will use that expression which we talked about.
Justice Katju takes on the role of a super governor
wants to dismiss Maharashtra government under article 356.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:56 am
This gentleman, Justice Katju does not gets sleep if he is not mentioned by
media for about a week. We will keep on hearing from him regularly. He does
keeps us entertained.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:19 am
you are right. He is now the media equivalent of Digvinash Singh.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:29 am
Shenoy Saab , Mohan
May I request you to be a little considerate towards Justice Katju . He is a senior from school.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:04 am
Justice Katju has been removed from my cross-hairs.
There are any number of targets.
Jawed Naqvi | Opinion | From the Newspaper
6 hours agoMUGHAL emperor Aurangzeb and Maratha warrior Shivaji were arch foes, but why? Colonial historians followed by their Indian and Pakistani protégés have projected the rivalry as a religious one.
Consequently Muslim obscurantists on both sides of the border celebrate Aurangzeb as their hero, while right-wing Hindus in India see Shivaji as the 17th-century legend that laid low Muslim aggression in India.
Similar communal assumptions fuelled Partition. But the assumptions were false. In a landmark episode that defies bigoted stereotypes, Aurangzeb sent the Mughal army to protect the Hindu baniyas of Gujarat who were being plundered by Shivaji.
Facts as gleaned from history would reveal that Shivaji was indeed a great hero who represented the Maratha masses. And the masses in the Indian context mainly meant the peasantry, not their exploiters, which was usually the moneylenders and state.
The baniya or the moneylender — the Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and also Christian variant — has been historically patronised by the state whose ultimate quarry inevitably happened to be the peasant.
David Hardiman’s well-researched work Feeding the Baniya: Peasants and Usurers in Western India, which he published in 1996, etches the background of this class-based source of conflict in the western region of the agricultural country.
Aurangzeb’s job was to rule like any other ruler before him but his clergy had a different axe to grind with the subjects. The emperor had desperately leaned heavily on the religious orthodoxy to defeat his eclectic brother Dara Shikoh, and they now extracted a price that would eventually triggered his downfall.
The Mughals, as informed and unbiased historians know, were generally careful not to offend the religious sensibilities of powerful non-Muslim subjects. Jahangir banned the slaughter of bullocks and cows so as not to offend the Hindu rajas and baniyas. “If, however, rulers disregarded such accepted policies religious concerns could become political.”
This happened in the Surat city in 1669. Says Hardiman: “Aurangzeb appointed a reactionary theologian to act as a qazi, or civil judge, of Surat City. He began a campaign of converting merchants to Islam. Several baniya merchants were forced to become Muslims.”
Eight thousand baniyas left the city in protest in September 1669, and went to Bharuch. Defiant, they also went to the emperor.
“In the end the emperor dismissed the qazi and wrote a letter to the baniyas promising them security and greater religious freedom. They then returned to Surat.”
The emperor’s difficulties had, however, just begun. The Surat incident came at a time when the merchants’ confidence in Mughal rule had already been shaken. “In 1664,” recalls Hardiman from his research, “the Mughal army had failed to prevent Shivaji from raiding Surat and looting its merchants and bankers. Shivaji was to repeat the exploit in 1670. Surat lay at the heart of a great mercantile network stretching over the whole of India, and it is likely that these events had a profound impact on the imagination of many merchants.”
Hardiman quotes another historian, Karen Leonard, as suggesting that the Mughal failure to protect bankers and merchants of the empire in an adequate manner led them to gradually extend their support to rivals, such as the Marathas, and the emerging European powers.
In the absence of a Japan-like Meiji revolution in India, it was the merchants and moneylenders, not the feudal elite that led the field in industrialisation or whatever there is of it. In the absence of Aurangzeb today, Narendra Modi, Bal Thackeray, Manmohan Singh, and to an extent even the Marxist-led Left Front have become the guarantors of the business community’s interests.
(Failure was not an option as the Left Front discovered when irked peasants drove out a major Tata project from West Bengal and with it the three decades old Left Front government.)
As we can see there is nothing essentially communal about the baniya class, nor is there anything intrinsically secular about them. Whatever works for business is kosher. That’s the rule. If Narendra Modi can deliver on their business agenda and the only way to get him to power happens to be through communal strife, so be it. And if the Gujarat model of political mobilisation does not work elsewhere in India, Modi may have to be given a quasi-secular makeover. It will be 10 years since India’s Gujarat carnage this weekend. In December we will observe two decades since the demolition of the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya. In the absence of a political movement that could tame the tide of right-wing aggression, supported for good measure by big business, both matters have landed in law courts, and that’s that. Ditto for other quasi-fascist nationwide outrages.
And yet there is a growing feeling that if the law courts could help at all M.F. Husain would not have died in exile, nor would Teesta Setalvad, who’s diligent legal work has given hope to many a victim of pogroms in Gujarat, spend much of her time defending herself against invented criminal charges slapped on her by the devious and powerful state. (My lesson from history is that it took a world war to oust the Third Reich. Law courts helped its rise.)
January-February next year will mark the 20th year of collusion between Maharashtra’s then Shiv Sena government and the Mumbai police when they jointly supervised the murder of thousands of terrified slum-dwellers, mostly Muslims. Ignore the irony that as claimants to Shivaji’s legacy, Shiv Sena has emerged as the most reliable political arm of big business, with an enormous projection of street power.
October-November 2014 will complete 30 years since the lynching of Sikhs evidently by state-backed mobs in Delhi and elsewhere. We can continue to conjure a grim, macabre calendar of India’s shady sociology and politics. Christians, Dalits, tribespeople are all targets of perpetual violence by police, the security forces and their mostly upper-caste collaborators.
What we fail to acknowledge so readily is that apart from the sociology and politics, which spurs sectarian turmoil in India, economic cause and effect has played a big hand.
From Kashmir to Tamil Nadu, from Gujarat to Nagaland communal and ethnic violence has emerged as an enterprise with a major stake in the country’s power structures. Rewriting history to get the result is a small price to pay
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:15 am
Ravi has promised to change. Why dont you also becoma a good Indian instead of being a good jehadi?
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 11:57 am
i am already a good indian.i dont need certificate of being a good indian from u.
more than 500 indians got good jobs through me.i always serve india.
we differ in thoughts and ideas.so what.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:08 pm
in case u want to be taken seriously like a gud boy, you can post a link as Mahesh suggeested
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:51 am
i dont need ur advise.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:41 am
Two lines mostly point out the “economics” (if it were to be called so)
“What we fail to acknowledge so readily is that apart from the sociology and politics, which spurs sectarian turmoil in India, economic cause and effect has played a big hand.”
“the Mughal army had failed to prevent Shivaji from raiding Surat and looting its merchants and bankers. Shivaji was to repeat the exploit in 1670. Surat lay at the heart of a great mercantile network stretching over the whole of India, and it is likely that these events had a profound impact on the imagination of many merchants.”
p.s. : Manohar has consistently been following good style of posting the URL followed by few lines of summary. Try to follow it – it helps others to quickly decide whether to read or skip the post. Copy / Paste of the entire article makes it really difficult to do so.
p.s. : Vijay Kumar, yaar thodaa padh bhi liya hotaa comment phekne ke pehle.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:19 am
I had seen the aritcle in Dawn. ANyway I think you should also see intention of Engrich that is to put in so much volume of inconsequential matter that postings of others are lost.
You also probably did not notice that he abused Pervez and Usman with “unspeakable’ and gutter words.
Anyway the article is part of the mindset of proving that Aurangzeb was secular and Jaziya was a jayaz tax of secularims like VAT and sales tax nothing more. Arre baba… real history na
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:30 am
Didn’t see the exchange with Usman.
With Pervez – there was something which both Pervez and Engrich could’ve avoided.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:49 am
Aurangzeb was secular
he had 37%hinduministers in his cabinet.yes he was secular.he sacrificed his life to maitain unity and integrity of india.from sikh scavangers to mratha sessionists.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 11:57 am
Naqvi, a leftist Islamist, is a distorter of history framing India’s history and issues the egrich way. He should renounce his citizenship and migrate to freer countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Islamic rulers’ history worldwide, and Mogul history in India is a history of brother killing brother, son killing father, brother blinding brother etc. Real gems like Akbar and real scums like Aurangazeb are all part of the history.
Kamran was after Humayun all his life; trying to capture and kill him multiple times. The opium junkie Jehangir blinded his brother Khusro (records say Khusro was quite handsome, mixture of Akbar and his rajput wife, and was liked a lot by the citizens).
Aurangazeb empire always ran out of money, and he created temporary tact to extract money. But his focus was on persecution, one he started with his brothers and father, and later extended to all his citizenry.
He put his father emperor Shah Jahan in prison, killed his brothers Shuja and Murad, and then turned on his elder brother Dara Shikoh. Dara Shikoh, a man of peace, a believer in Sufism, in his pursuit of knowledge and the ultimate truth of life came across Upanishads. He studied them, formed an opinion that Uanishads was the “the hidden book, Kabab-al Maknun, referred to in Quran), and translated them into Persian, Sirr-e-Akbar.
Aurangazeb considered him a threat to his ambition (Dara being the eldest), as well as an apostate and threat to Islam. He was murdered in front of his young son, and the head was delivered to Shah Jahan for his dinner.
Aurangazeb killed Guru Tegh Bahadur for not converting from Sikhism to Islam.
Aurangazeb was the first Mogul ruler to have Sharia as the law of the land. He was also the first (I have to reconfirm) to institute the religious tax.
Had Shivaji not died at a young age of 53 in 1680, Indian history would have been quite different.
Naqvi, and the likes of Romilla Thaper, want to create an alternate history. These are the same people who portray the 1920s Mappila Rebellion in Malabar, at the tail end of Khilafet movement, as an agrarian revolution, so what if lakhs of people were converted, women raped, temples destroyed, properties taken over.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Thank you for posting a masterly overview. We have to accept history as it has already happened. We can only learn lessons from it in case we stop distortions.
Five years back, a fake historian told me that we should not discuss jaziya imposed by Aurangzeb and instead treat it like sales tax of that era.
I have’nt stopped laughing at that thought till now.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Absolutely right . Only JNU guys will say that jazaiya is the sales tax of that time. Let us hope they are not teaching Economics.
To view Aurangazeb’s actions as pure Economics is a gross distortion. Aurangazeb always had problem managing money (he was “suspended” several times by his father for poor results from his territories); any money management was done by his assistants; his sole focus was Allah’s service as he deemed it.
There will always be justification/rationalization for unleashing dogs to eat into the flesh of the protesting blacks in the American south of early sixties – but the fact is that the whites unleashed dogs to prevent little black girls from going to school.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Gopi, Vijay Kumar,
thanks for calling a spade a spade. In fact, so many spades spades.
Our pseudo seculars and the JNU historians have all fooled the country for so long with “these are not spades, dear Indians, these are spoons” kind of ketchup history.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Please brace for a harsh reply. Nothing personal, though.
Here is my take-away from your post…..
1> Naqvi is really really baaaad and so is Romilla Thapar.
2> India’s history during Mughal era is just that – a history of family fueds and destruction of temples, rapes , conversions et al.
3> There is no such thing as Economic History of India.
I am little confused at this point and hence let me ask this – Are you serious ?
Also I notice you have hardly significantly addressed any points made in the article. So, what was your post about ?
It is OK if you don’t take the author seriously , you could’ve as well just plain ignored the posting. Alternately, you could’ve given a good rebuke. Un-fortunately , you did neither.
And yes – situation would’ve been far different if Shiivaji had survived further – or if he had a good political successor. More so because the Shivaji rule had all the markings of a emerging modern state.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:12 pm
@ Mahesh and Gopi
Khushwant Singh in his hurry to get endorsment from the “love Aurangzeb for he was nek and deen,” crowd, time and again called Shivaji a coward. What is your opinion on this?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 2:10 pm
I cannot see a reason/justification for this. One has to remember that Shivaji was not born a prince; he became a Chatrpti on his own (in fact, there is a story that he was a “sudra”, and Pandits from Benares were brought in to declare he was kosher).
The Maratha kingdom was in disarray after his death. His descendents were plunderers and marauders; functioning as tax collectors for Moguls.
So an argument could be made that he did not create a system of preservation. But that , I think, has more to do with his untimely death.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Khushwant Singh’s arguement went somehow like this. By living sparsely and stitiching caps, Aurqangzeb proved that he was a nek and deen man. He was only doing what rulers did, while Shivaji fighting as a guerilla was not following the rules of “fair” battles.
My historian friend who gave this jaziya being a sales tax theory also said much the same thing. he admitted that we cannot be too frank with histroy as it will inflame passions today…
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:43 pm
“He should renounce his citizenship and migrate to freer countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia”.
What about Romila Thapar and all those whose views/opinions/interpretations you do not agree with – should they also take the first flight out of the country on a one-way-ticket?
He has given a view of historical events and you have given another. Who is right or wrong – can’t we leave to individuals to decide for themselves which to accept, reject or dismiss both?
Creating ‘alternate history’ is not the exclusive preserve of Romila Thapar and the JNU types alone. The right-wing Hindutvawadis have been at it too for ages now and they have even attempted to weave mythology into the historical narrative. Who is winning?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:21 pm
I am yet to see a Naqvi column where he says whether there is anything good here.
Decades ago, BBalGangadhar Tilak was tried for sedition by the British for using Shivaji as a symbol to rise against British.
If i had my way, I will put Naqvi on sedition charges or deport him. You dont have to do any good, but dont do any bad.
No, I will not deport Romilla. She actually makes me laugh at the level of her stupidity, where as Naqvi in a strange way makes me mad
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:49 pm
That was not the point. The point was tolerating dissent – one the pillars of any democratic discourse. If there is no dissent, then there would no need for democracy or if dissent is not allowed, then such a society is not democratic.
It is your prerogative to get angry or laugh (you are actually showing dissent by choosing either of reactions) at someone’s views and opinions. That prerogative is available to the rest of us too.
Vinod Sharma wrote ”
That leaves scope perhaps for a greater say of the Union government in the war on terror. It will be instructive for the protesting chief ministers to debate whether countering terror is a simple law and order issue or is akin to being at war?
The Reply to his contention comes fom none other than his colleauge Shishir Gupta
“The Home Minster, National Security Advisor and Home Secretary are also at a loss after reading day-to-day investigations in Samjhuata bombing in the media the very next day. In fact the jitteriness of the State Chief Ministers on National Counter Terrorism Centre (NCTC) is partly due to NIA outreach and public investigations of terror attacks, The point is that Hindu extremists involved in Samjhauta Express bombing must be given exemplary punishment, but first the NIA must prove it.”
Many of us have been apprehensive for quite some time that the mandate of the NIA is not to investigate acts of terror but to somehow lend credibility to the Congress political campaign . It could well be that the Head NIA may be reporting to Digvijay Singh . Remember Singh’s claim that Hemant Karkare too had rung him and informed him of threats to his life from Hindu Right wing just before Kasab and co attacked Mumbai.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:52 am
This Samjhouta express blast has become an enigma. Completely two different
outfits are being blamed , one a Muslim and another Hindu. I hope real culprits
are caught and punished as soon as possible.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 11:13 am
Fortunately nether of the two investigators report to any communal BJP government. They both report to impeccably secular Congress governments.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:49 pm
bombs were planted by those who are competing for power.neither hindu nor muslim do it.brhmns of abhinav bharat were doing this bullshit to capture the power.since goverment has taken strong action they stopped this game.before same class was perpetuating communal riots..
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 10:54 am
I have my doubts whether the government is actually interested in combating terror. Its drive is to create a political agenda which helps the COngress and the first family. Its reactions on 26/11 of trying to divert attention on RSS and then on Batla house, where it again tried to portray the dead as innocents smacks of a cowardly, selfish attitude of somehow getting a vote bank in Muslims by telling them you are being wronged.
it may be a good idea if the opposition does not engage with this double faced UPA as the UPA cannot be taken seriously.
Well BNP is a MoFu party. You wonder why india liberated these GADDARS.
Must say AWAMI league is definitely different.
I have always felt ,if weare going to have partition , LETS HAVE IT
PROPERLY.each and every muslims from india relocated to a new islamic country , all hindus accepted into india. Depending on the population number accepted land is marked accoedingly.
India was basically Fu ed ,not a single muslim crossed from west to east , an avalanche of hindu refugees crossed over to the west
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 5:42 pm
You being an intellectual should engage yourself in protecting the rights of Bangladeshi minorities. It is my sincere advise.
Continuing my discussion with 5cingulategyrus9
Fail to understand your obsession for seeking scientific reasoning for religious thoughts. You would have also believed existence of Quran 500 yrs before the prophet.
Religion is dogma, may be divine, an enforced way of thinking widely believed and practiced without questioning. Islam takes an exception as it is believing the unseen. Science is an evolving reality, a whole different world dealing with hypothesis and numerical interpretation of real world phenomenon. These two sets are distinct may/not be overlapping.
In my opinion Earth IS FLAT or round it has nothing to do with spherical existence of planet earth rather a metaphor to make us realize that flat surface is made easy to walk for humans.
Not sure about the other one.
Please seek proper guidance and answer to such queries from a theologist who has good grip on religion islam and science as well. Have your queries send to askimam.org
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Glad to see serious dialogue from a young man– All the best, best wishes, and blessings
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Thank you! dear.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Do you believe that Koran was written in symbolic language or do you think its language is litteral
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:37 pm
I would like to reply o this one too. And before that I will clarify that whatever I say is not to insult anyone’s faith or belief. Just to enhance the understanding of our world
Usman, we cannot run away from the fact that religious text will clash with the reality of facts which emerge from scientific discovery, It is for us to create a world where we take religous texts as indicative guides on our day to day notions of good and bad or for that matter fairness and justice for the tranquility of society.
Not letting these religious texts to supercede evolving sense and terms of justice. To put it more lucidly let me state three things from different relgions and say without prejudice on how they needed to be reformed..
a) My own faith, Hinduism did in its evolution pick up an idea of dividing society by way of vocation and work. This became a dogma and a grossly unfair caste system evolved. Was it not right that Hindus along with government intervention are demolishing this unjust system?
b) Christianity, time and again clashed with scientific discovery. Should we have let the Church prevail over Galileo? Should we not try to discover history of evolution beyond Noah’s ark? Should we be stuck up with the immaculate conception and believe that it all started with Adam and Eve ?
c) Islam in the scriptures has put various restrictions on behaviour and lifestyles. I visited the website you mentioned . How can we restrict women from throwing of the veil? How can we stop them from moving out of the house after sunset, beyond 48 miles? Why is it that Saudi Arabia, the Mecca of Islam a fuedal kingdom where only one family rules? How can you stop Ahemadiyas and Shias from evolving thier own versions of religion? How can there be a punishment to apostasy and that too death?
As an engineer attatched to a research team (in a small manner) I was exploring death for the last few days. Now there are two ways of looking at it. Religion gives all the convenient answers.
But my question is say cancer. What is the evolutionary reason that it wants the patient dead? So should researchers seek the answer from texts or through labs or discovery.
I mean we are talking about research so that a better life evolves….
Usman, at the end of the day Earth is the only planet in this universe op billions of planet which is known to have life. What I fear is mortgaging our midn to religous texts totally and not evolving them would really set up a clash of civilisations which would blow up this planet.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:13 pm
. How can we restrict women from throwing of the veil
in holy hindu scripture women must commit sati after death of his husband.with time practice is changed.this was the instruction of those.
things are moving and changing.but basic pronciple are same.highest point of islam is that it stands for interest free economy high moral principle.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:32 pm
this was the instruction of those days.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:49 pm
By remounceing Sati, the women proved that religious texts cannot be final
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:47 pm
so with muslim countries and their societies.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Why is it that Saudi Arabia, the Mecca of Islam a fuedal kingdom where only one family rules?
what it has to do with islam.rulers comes and go.saudia is not a islamic country.though it has two most holy shrines of muslims.saudi goverment runs on reason,not on religion.some of the laws they have taken from sharia to control nation.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Can you tell me which is a true Islamic country, then? Saudia not being Islamic is realy big news to me.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:41 pm
only pakistan call herslf islamic republic of pkistan.
saudi arabia is run by tribe of saud.they make their own rules which they say is good fro local population.
but i have seen even hindus praising their rules.
rss propaganda machines speak lot of lie about them
ask hindus to copy them.
bjp goverment invited their ruler on 26th january,can guess how they are.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:45 pm
Can you tell me which is a true Islamic country
islam is message.there is no country in world which is islamic.many coutries run on islamic principle.but they are not able withstand the tornado of capitalim and interest economy.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:42 pm
How can there be a punishment to apostasy and that too death?
this was in begining,now hundreds are leavig & millions new are
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Where the so called pure rule… as in Muridke and Swat, the punishment is still death
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:35 pm
they are tribals they have their own rules.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:18 pm
usman baically shan dont know about islam much.while surfing if he find something written by some unknown but debatable,he publish it here.
science fulfill the physical need of body while religion is constitution of life.especially islam.
yes on number 1
no on number 2 — i did say there were gems like akbar/scums like aurangazeb .. mogul history is obviously richer. however, not the aurangazeb history — naqvi was not talking about mogul history but how great aurangazeb was or trying to justify his actions in economic terms and times of the day
no on number 3 – obviously there is an economic history of India… can answer the maurya, gupta, mogul periods in north india, te chola period in south india, the east india and the british period for india, the economic destruction post independence, the upswing since rao/singh days
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 1:52 pm
With your knowledge of history and religion, I think you are the right person for this one.
a) Around 230 million years back Dinosaurs lived on this planet. Does any religious text of ANY religion give an indication of such an occurance or is this knowledge just a 20th century creation?
b) From the sweep of history have relgious texts evolved or have they always been thought to be the final ones at that point, till people rebel and new texts are created?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:54 pm
I will try to give a perspective based on my limited knowledge…
1)) The “Dasavathar” belief of ancient Indians, in a sense, parallels the theory of evolution. They did not start from cells; however talked about God taking the form of fish, amphibians, animal, …. hunetr/gatherer,;;; ” So in that sense the “kurma” avatar is like Dinousars.. They also divided time into “yuga” or epochs, Satya, Treta, Dwapara, Kali yugas with a 4:3:2:1 ratio — that the age of fish/sea life (satya yuga) was 4 times the age of humans on earth, There is a reference in Vyasa’s Mahabharath about Arjun seeing the evolution/creation from time immemorial when Krishna provides him with an exclusive look at “Vishwa Roopa”
The Abrahamic religions do not indulge in an evolutionary stretch spread across ages; but dwell more on the creation by God. In fact, one of the raging conflict in the American life and politics is the fight between creationists and evolutionists. The republicans in general, and the right wing fundamentalist Christians in particular, believe that God created everything over a 6 day period about 7000 years ago (there is an exact date, I forgot). In fact, I am told that the text books in Texas now do not refer to evolution, instead an “intelligent design” by God or creationism. (and they wonder why jobs are moving away to India a nd China)
2) Religious texts are quite few in number , Old/new testaments, progressive forms of Bibles, Quran ..The Indian philospohical books of Upanishads, Vedas etc , in my analysis, are not religious scriptures, but the thought process of a people over a period of time.
Old Testament dictated too much violence in a man’s life; New Testament was slightly better, various Bibles became less violent over a period of time, with the final split by Martin Luther King and the spread of Protestantism. More people must have been killed for God and religion in the middle ages than all people killed in all the known wars.
Quran, as we know, is frozen. In a sense Western Christians have come out of their dark days by continous refinement, reformation, renaissance.
But the “book” based conflicts continue among the Abrahamic religions- Muslims kill others driven by their book, Muslim/Christian, Christian/Christian (Northern ireland), Muslim/Jew……
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Thx for enlightening me. As always your knowledge of history is interesting. And people who disagree with you will have to agree to this.
Just for my interest, what was the reason for the New Testament and how did the old testament NOT satisfy the beleivers then?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:26 pm
In some of the US states, they want to teach “creationism” instead of “evolution” in science classes.
According to Bible, earth was created in 4000 BC, so how will creationism explain presence of Dinosaur fossils dated to million of years?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:30 pm
That is the gist of my arguement. That every religous text can only temperoraily satisfy people anc can never be the final word. However we need to appreciate the ethics religion got into our lives..
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Clearly I am really missing something here. Now you need to help me out .
Let us start….
“yes on number 1″
We are referring to Naqvi and Ramilla Thapar being really baaaaad here. Incidentally the article is by Naqvi and yet you managed to pull in Romilla Thapar. Wonderful. But, how so ?
“no on number 2 — i did say there were gems like akbar/scums like aurangazeb .. mogul history is obviously richer. however, not the aurangazeb history — naqvi was not talking about mogul history but how great aurangazeb was or trying to justify his actions in economic terms and times of the day”
I thought you went through the article. Care to point out in the article where Aurangzeb is painted as “great” ?
“no on number 3 – obviously there is an economic history of India… can answer the maurya, gupta, mogul periods in north india, te chola period in south india, the east india and the british period for india, the economic destruction post independence, the upswing since rao/singh days ”
Excellent. So we agree it was not just “let us murder each other in family , destroy temples, rape women, convert anything alive and moving to islam” ?
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:20 pm
P.S.: I am sincerely trying to understand your contours of dis-agreement with “JNU Type Historians”.
The reason is simple; they are professional Historians, who some-times but not always take a SECULAR view of History.
This is anathema to those who wish to hijack History and press gang into their social engineering project called – Hinduatva
Because the Hindu Right use History as a vehicle for propaganda, they therefore believe that all other Historians are also agents of Propaganda.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:38 am
Because the Hindu Right use History as a vehicle for propaganda
actually they are parrots.ek hee dhun pe ek hee pitch pe ek hee zoot boltr rahtein hain.
Another dedicated Congressi Kripashankar Singh caught looting India-
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Kripa shankar was the hero of Sujata Anandan’s blog for honesty and what BJP should learn about on moral rectitude from him. Seems that she confused turpitde with rectitude…
On another level shows the Chamchagirri the media does of the COngress
Wonderful blog on politics played by Vatican and its agent Cardinal in India, to secure release of ITALIAN crew who shot CATHOLIC fishermen. Also note the communal content of Cardinal’s statement.
“I am and will remain in close contact with the Catholic ministers of Kerala and I hope that they will help to pacify the situation. In particular, I trust in the work of the Tourism Minister, the Catholic KV Thomas, who participated in the consistory in Rome in past days and attended the mass with the Holy Father and the new cardinals: he is a man of great moral stature and of significant influence, both in the local and central government, and he assured me his maximum effort. I guarantee, in the next few days, my constant involvement with the Indian authorities on the matter”
Is this communalism or not?
If a Hindu priest makes similar statement, how will our media project it?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Absolutely stupid of him to say this. Probably he was looking for a promotion!
Sad part is relgion is supposed to teach you to fight for justice. The cardinal was not following the cardinal princples of protecting the weak…
Wont be simple for him to get away easily.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:14 pm
One for the goose and another for the gander.
Cardinal George Alencherry has retracted that he made that statement. I am sure he will be sent to “political training”.
The Church has its tentacles in the state and central administration – I would say it is even stronger now (it was always strong).
Going back in time, church opposition was the main reason why Shrimathi Indira Priyadarshini Gandhi , as Congress President, persuaded her father Pandit Nehru to dismiss the democartically elected EMS Namboodiripad Communist govt of Kerala in 1959…
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:24 pm
Frankly speaking, I have not heard even Bukhari making such communal statement. Can Bukhari dare to say that he will rope in MUSLIM ministers to get MUSLIM criminals released..Never.
The Kerala christians have the zeal of the convert. I even see them in US..There one Idiot called some ‘PAUL DINAKARAN” here. Watching him is sure a comic relief. I even called his so called help line just for fun..When phone connected, I heard the voice “How may I pray for you?” I couldn’t control my laughter…till date I find it funny,
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:39 pm
I think I will disagree here. I have hung around enough with kerala Christians to know many are relgious but not out to convert you. Fine.
Dinakaran being a preacher was doing his job as many other religious men do.
Since my brother runs a nursing home and has many Kerala Christians employees, I interact almost on a daily basis.
I am religious… about 6 days an year… Janamashtim-Diwali- Eid-Christmas- Basakhi— and quasi religious whenever I am on a trek and watch the rocks and rivers from heights and know that there must be a God to create all this.
And honestly the real times I have interacted with God– in adult hood was on a flight from Calutta to Bhubaneshwar when we got stuck in a thunderstorm 20000 feet in the sky… and god seemed to be calling. And it only seemed logical to send him a request to delay the meeting….
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Dinakaran is Tamil Christian, and probably a recent convert.
Majority of the kerala Christians are real “old converts” — almost 2000 years ago, with the apostle St Thomas landing in Kerala coast around AD 50, soon after the crucifixion.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
The Church has its tentacles in the state and central administration
Let me guess, via Sonia Gandhi. Right?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:37 pm
STFU..read the blog first.
Please dont get Sonia’s name into it and soil the issue into Congress vs BJP. A cardinal has made a wrong statement and we are trying to understand the socio-dynamics of it.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 5:02 pm
But still would like to know How the Catholic Church has its tentacles into our central administration.
You yourself answered your question very well in another post.
Another gem coming from ShriPrakash Jaiswal “If Congress doesn’t get majority in UP, there will no option other than President’s rule”..
This is what Congressis call democratic tradition.
Ravi is lying when he says that “He never supported terrorism and Osama”. He infact posted a long blog explaining why he supported Islamic terror.
I have also seen him going around and editing old posts and in some case, deleting all the contents.
The Congressis support him just because they find a useful ally in him. I’d never say Manohar supports terror but he definitely supports sympathizer of terrorists.
I support Ravi and Enrich right to post their views but not with fake identity. Let us not forget that Enrich started as Ram Autar (hindu) and posted anti-India and anti-hindu stuff but he could not hide his hatred for long and gave in his true religious identity.
Ravi has many time by mistake accepted that he is muslim but then he comes up with fantastic lies to cover his slip of tongue. I am convinced that both Ravi and Enrich come from same school of thought & I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
If they keep posting trash against India and Hindus, they should be ready for retaliation in kind.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Is it so… I mean editing old post and delelting content! OMG…
From my sde I have given him another chance and pray that Ravi 2.0 , a truely secular person with an agenda of amking India stronger emerges…
Will that happen?
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 5:00 pm
Any EVIDENCE or just conjecture after conjecture.
You believe what you want to.
I will do what I wish to.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:19 pm
After Disqus was introduced, he did it number of times.
You failed to hide the bitter truth about the BJP by your attempt to use sarcasm and in the process you also failed to address or counter-argue the points raised. It can be classified as dodging the issue.
There were three specific occasions when Ravi was caught in Zia’s blog. He got off with lame excuses; Ashish was involved in one exchange.
1) He said murderous Hindus drove his family from Sailkot to Delhi (he had an exchange with Ashish on this; Ravi got away saying he was drunk when he blogged)
2 )He stated that the terrorist attacks on western targets were justified because “we” were attacked.
3) He directed Ram Autar that there is no meaning in his ongoing diatribe about multiple Gods among Hindus because “they” will not convert.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 5:57 pm
More conjecture from SSingh.
No Evidence though.
This is its 4th airing in the last 12 months or so.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Even I remember these instances but as lie is allowed in Islam, I am sure Ravi will use it as defence.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:29 pm
bullshit truth is base of islam.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Truth and Islam are two opposite poles.
Kerala Christans have been in India for almost 2000 years.And their ancestors long before that as believers of Sanathan Dharma or whatever was the predecessor of Hinduism.
It is stupid to broadbrush Christians (or Sikhs or Muslims or whatever) as anti-Hindu
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:22 pm
Read again..I said majority of christians are anti-hindu however there is small minority of christians who are truly Indian in nature and tolerant.
I mean no offence here. I am saying this based on my experience and I accept I may be wrong.
This is how E V I D E N C E is provided.
From Mon 03/10/2011 21:27
Pankaj#1 (unregistered) wrote, in response to Ravi:
I will answer this.
This was felony.
Sorry guys this gem got lost in the last blog.It deserves your full consideration.____________________________________________________This was posted by RajeevS F.U.C.K Mohammad. and F.U.C.K his Islam.He should have visited Rajghat.. A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to engrich 0 Like F .____________________________________________________Dr Mishra…I do not expect a comment from you, but I am eternal optimist.
Pankaj#1 (unregistered) wrote, in response to Ravi:
We are not on the same page but I will not say or bad mouth anything about Prophet. He was a revolutionary in his time, for betterment of society. I can only go that far.
PankajI am conscious of the fact that you may be missing some of the context.Both RajeevS and Dr Mishra were extremely enthusiastic in their condemnation of my blasphemous rant. In fact, they have not let me forget it, despite public apology.I rest my case. No more will be said about this.
I was sure that you will pick this up. It was meant for you…A sikh getting worked up if Islam is bashed but uses most foul words himself for hindu gods and doesn’t care a bit about sikh gurus.
Why don’t you accept that you are a muslim and stop this nautanki?
Let me see evidence produced against me to support all those allegations relentlessly made here.
Whatever you post but these facts will not change-
1. You justified your support for Islamic terror.
2. You abused Hindu gods.
Evidences are in the blog and we don’t have time to prove you INNOCENT. Everyone here is educated and can understand what you post. You were the one who snapped when someone commented that Osama is now fish food. Is that not true?
You are free to profess any ideology but stop lying for god sake. Abuse us, our country and religion..we have no problem but drop this fake identity.
Just ignore them. You do not need any certificates from anyone. Let them revel themselves in their favourite pastime – label fabrication – the pinnacle of the level of their ‘intelligence’.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:23 pm
I am letting EVIDENCE speak for itself.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:52 pm
As usual you come up and defend lies..Not surprised after all you are congressi.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:27 pm
ravi bhai rajeev is mad and eccentric man.lunatic asylum is the only right place for him.
Same can be said about Mohammad too.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:05 pm
u confirmed,what i said about u is right.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:18 pm
So you agree Mohammad was like me.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:31 am
u are an idiot while he is loved and respected by 1/3 of humanity.
Make me CM by Feb 27 or I’ll go my way: Yeddyurappa to BJP leadership
Serving an ultimatum, BJP strongman of Karnataka B S Yeddyurappa on Thursday set February 27 as a deadline to the party’s central leadership to reinstate him as chief minister, fling which he would decide on his course of action.
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:29 am
BJP is out of its freakin’ mind to even keep this toxic waste in the party.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:13 am
You are right but Casteist equation in Karnataka is making BJP tolerate this sewer rat. BJP is behaving exactly like Congress in karnataka..playing caste politics but pretending otherwise.
In the light of day, questions about midnight encounter
Though Mr. Tripathy (Police Commissioner) said the police broke open the front door to gain entry into the one-bedroom flat, reporters of The Hindu who visited the site found no visible signs of the door being damaged or broken. The wall behind the window grill through which the police said the initial exchange of fire had taken place had only two visible bullet holes on it, that too at the same height, and a TV set that would have been in the line of fire survived the gun battle intact. The window grill itself showed no signs of having been hit by bullets, suggesting both the police and the men inside who allegedly fired shots through it were excellent marksmen.
I am now testing your knowledge of History and also saving myself the trouble of consulting a 100 books to get the answer. I am shooting a long question.
Is secularism a new concept? If we really dig into history it was just about wars. Of one king fighting another for territory or women or prior to that goats. But a lot of these wars were driven by the need to spread your religion.
Where and which country could multiple religions actually exist and from which years in history?
By the way, jeruslam, where three major religions orignated is still fighting battles on religious lines. And in Ireland in my short stay, my Sardar host grinned ear to ear and pointed out that the goras had played the divide and rule game… but in Ireland separate walled enclaves differentiated between Catholic and Protestant areas.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:56 pm
Let me try to answer briefly before I go to bed — “Secularism” is a very broad/deep subject, used differently in different contexts.
It is relatively a modern concept, generally enshrined in modern constitutions, Although the roots of the concept goes to early Greek (Epicures) to medieval (Averroes (Ibn Rashid)) philosophers.
Generally, from a constitutional perspective, it implies the separation of “church” (religion) and state, replacing laws based on scriptures, such as Sharia, with civil laws. It also implies respect for the individual, equality of all etc.
The word itself was coined by the English philosopher/reformer George Holyoake in 1850s.
From an Indian constitution perspective, it is more of a political ararngement rather than an enshrined bill of rights like in the US constitution, Here it is “equality of all religions” (that is an oxy moron) and no religiious intolerance will be prosecuted.
India should have defined its secularism (if the protection of minority religion is the objective) as no religion will be given any prferntial treatment – that way all this discussion of reservations etc would have never happened. Or more importantly, they should have been silent on religion, and be specific about individual rights like in most of the western constitutions.
Now coming back to your second question about countries with multiple religions and how they deal with it – actually nobody has managed it a well as India, considering the magnitude of minorities in India (US has minorities, UK has minorities, mostly recent immigrants, blacks in the case of US, recent Muslim immigrants in the case of European countries….)
Off to sleep– Hope tomorrow is better for all of us
Just a random observation..Why is it that muslim intellectuals and left liberals never talk about condition of minority hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh? If they did that, they will earn tremendous goodwill of majority.
We seriously need to compare condition of Indian muslims Vs Pakistani/Bangladeshi hindus. We need minorities to be treated equally in all three countries.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:23 pm
minority hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh
i give u.they far better than condition of muslims here in india who are pushed to poverty and live in slums.
richest bussines man of karachi is hindu.in deep sindh 90%of rich people are hindu baniyas.at 2 pakistani cities are hindu majority.when mascare of muslims was going on in gujrat,nobody touched a single hindu there.though tharparkar a hindu mjority district is on border.
i think now u know a bit.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Bakwaas…Go to some Jihadi site please..enough of your nonsense.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:57 pm
truth is sour.evrything written is 100%right.can check with any sindhi.
engrich Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:04 pm
rajeev four years ago i went to karachi and stayed in hotel intercontinental,a hindu boy of south indian origin was cursing
hindus of india for communal riots and demolition of babri mosque,as these criminal acts put life of hindus in danger in pakistan.otherwise things are normal for us.he was working in the hotel.
That south Indian boy was a muslim…correct..and what were you doing in Karachi..giving blowjob to Dawood?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Ideally they should talk about the condition and forcible cnversion of minorites in those countries. But they will never do. Instead they will give some horrible reason that this will provoke Hindus in India.
For me the lowest point in UP elections has been Salman Khurshid and Louise Fernandes parading her conversion to gather votes. Nobody– not evven the media– talked about the reverse insult to Christians. Or the fact that this is the absolute wrong way to appeal to the electorate. It is saying,”look I have adopted your religion and so I am better than a Non Muslim candidate.”
In many ways it was like the HIndu girls being forcibly converted then taken in public processions in Sindh, videos of which can be seen on the net.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:39 pm
I have discussed this issue before.
It is absolutely deplorable the way Pakistan treats its minorities, Hindus/Christians/Ahemedia’s alike. In the past at a Govt to Govt level India has even protested.
However, I will now say something that would displease you. Genesis of Pakistan was on Religious Grounds (however wrong that was), the country was born with Religious extremism already developing at an increasing momentum. This was kept in check for a short-while but gained ascendancy again. It therefore follows that Pakistan conducts itself as a Religious Fundamentalist country. Toleration of other minorities is not a common trait there. Let’s not forget even Shia do not get a fair deal in that country.
Compare that with India. It has a secular constitution (however all political parties have tried to undermine it) Treatment of religious minorities is enshrined in our constitution. Comparison between the two countries – as far as treatment of minorities is concerned – is a futile exercise.
What we want to do is improve our country, not in comparison to Pakistan, but against a developmental criteria which is our own.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:45 pm
@Ravi, I understand MONA sikhs are treated as PATIT or lapsed sikhs , and are boycotted the TURBINATORS
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:50 pm
That is not true. Far from it.
Kasedhari Sikhs (Unshaven, Uncut Hair, Turban)
Sehajdhari Sikhs (Mona Sikhs)
None is discriminated in any way. There may some Amritdhari Sikhs who would not marry into a Sehajdhari Sikh family, in all other ways will treat them as sikhs.
Don’t talk about Sikhism with Ravi as his knowledge about his own religion and community is limited (he stated this number of times).
What I am trying to say is why Indian muslim intellectuals don’t speak up for minority hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh? Why is it rights of muslims in Indian subcontinent are supreme? The muslims got what they wanted two countries with 100% say and one secular country with veto power. What else do they want? If muslims can not treat non-muslims fairly how can they expect fair treatments from others, Mind it pakistani/bangladeshi muslims are ex-Indian muslims made out of same culture and psyche. They are blood brothers of Indian muslims so their behavior has direct implication on Indian muslims.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Read the views on sikhnet.com
There is resentment against Mona Sikhs, Raidasis,,
Ravi is no Mona Sikh..Just a fake.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:13 am
you should pose this question to turbanned Sikhs or clean-shaven ones. Not to a pretender, who sports a walrus mustache.
You are right that Pakistan was born on religious grounds and they have adopted
and are following religious extremism. But, here I also repeat the same question
which Rajeev has asked, ‘
Why is it that muslim intellectuals and left liberals never talk about condition of minority hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:03 pm
I just have
Now that is not to mean I am a Muslim Intellectual. I better say that as twisters are in town.
I can only say what I think.
If that is not acceptable then so be it.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:17 pm
You are nobody..we are talking about Bhatts, Azmi, Setalvads etc.
You are not an intellectual but MUSLIM definitely.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:11 am
Sometimes, even assiduously protected guard slips. You are no exception.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:44 am
mohan/ravi bhai, creation of pakistn was result of fight and mistrust between hindu bania and muslim landlord.it is nothing to do with islam.islam being message do not recgnize national boundaries..its creation was opposed by all muslim religous parties.
ghandhi being bania wnted to destroy fuedal lords of both communities.that is why maratha hindu rajas wanted to kill ghandhi through rss(muscle of fuedal lords).they suceeded but quite late.now grand daughters of those lords can be found in brothels of agra and mumbai.raghu pati raghav raja ram
absolute power brings absolute corruption,beggars of rajsthan and gujrat became billionaire and swiss bank flooded with indian money.
there was nothing religous all it was for power.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:20 pm
I dont think it can be so simple. yes for the good of the country we are secular becasue it is a higher ideal. The bottom line of secularism was about keeping religion inside the house.
However those who claimed to be secular go out fo the way to woo minorities especially Muslims on basis of communal lines. In the end it ends up almost saying that secularism and keeping religion restricted to your house is for Hindus, while for Muslims we need special policies and personal laws. Even to the extent of obfuscating terror created by Pakistanis or by Indians who happen to be Muslims.
This will never work now. It did work for some years but on the ground and even on this blog you can see resentment.
In case we are proud to be secular, then in the fitness of things we should ram our agenda of secularism to Pakistan and bangladesh and even take the issue of their treatment of minorites to the UN.
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Well at least we agree that Secularism is a higher ideal, something to aspire for.
I could not agree more with you when you say that religion is a personal matter and therefore should stay indoors.
The point where we have had a sustained disagreement is that you believe Congress alone is playing the communal eletoral card, where as I am of the opinion that so is the BJP and even more so.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:31 am
Well at least we agree that Secularism is a higher ideal
on paper yes in practice u are seeing.cases of ayodhya and gujrat riot are still in court.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:32 pm
This is typical of Islamists. They contend that Pakistan being an Islamic country can treat minority as they want but we (india) should continue to treat muslims as preferred citizen.
What is this?
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:40 pm
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:29 am
in muslim countries minorities are treated as preffered citizen.in demoncratic societies they are desciminated and murdered.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:07 am
you have, in fact, rammed hard on the policy of appeasement and vote bank politics, followed by all the pseudo secular parties, all the while calling the BJP a Hindu communalist party.
Keeping a Pakistani terrorist, Kasab, well fed and looked after and calling some stray Hindu terrorists the Hindu right/RSS etc is again an utterly counter-productive line.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 8:06 am
BJP is a Hindu Communalist organisation
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:24 am
Let’s not forget even Shia do not get a fair deal in that country.
many of their presidents were shia.from iskander mirza to bhuttos to yahya khans and zardari,shias are holding good position there.
yes but still minorities should be given more protection.in such bad situation when even muslims were leaving there was no big exodus of minorities shows their confidence in state and society.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:25 am
the country was born with Religious extremism already developing at an increasing momentum
600 communal riots were perpetuated in india not in pakistan.hindu community in pakistan is very rich and secured
why they leave their birthplace.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:24 am
communal riots happened and keep happening because Muslims like your kind self were left behind.
With Digvijay dictating it…
sometimes not a great deal one can do. if india was somalia , then there would have been grounds for hindus to fight for their right . but bangladesh being somalia , hindus easiest option is to cross the border
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Running away is no answer. If you suggest that harrassed hindus migrate to India, then we can say harrassed muslims should migrate to Pak/Bangladesh.
@anindyo, Perhaps you need to ask your dad about GHERAO a left front invention.
Labour problem was the single most factor thatled to a freefall.
I do not have the book with me . It is VS Naipaul , India , A thousand mutinies now. there is a conversation with a tamilbramhin gentleman.Apparently HOWRAH was full of TAM BRAMS who had arrived some 150 yrs ago. This gentlemn usedto work in one of those english companies. He says from Mid 50’s it was getting increasingly difficult to run businesses due to militant LEFT unions.
READ MY LAST SENTENCE OF THE ABOVE POST , i have said REFUGEE INFLUX was the main problem , BUT CPM BARBARISM was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:23 pm
What is your take on Naipaul views Muslims and his support for Ayodhya movement?
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:21 am
naipul married a muslim jounralist from lahore after converting to islam.
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:22 am
…opinions, anecdotes and Naipaul.. when that fails, there is capital letters.
Most industries in Bengal have been torpedoed by technology – Jute, Tea and Textiles.
Yes, the refugee influx is a factor- but, who allowed them in and courted their votes? Congress and CPM and now Trinamool – all have done it.
The industries were all finished in Bengal by the time CPM came to power and of course, by the time they woke up to the need to industrialize, it was time for Mamata and Singur.
Keep my dad out of it. One last warning.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 11:45 am
@Anindyo, your lines
“Most industries in Bengal have been torpedoed by technology – Jute, Tea and Textiles”
Only CPM cadres can come to such conclusion.
I grant that Jute was supplanted by Petrochemical derived fibres.
But I am not aware Tea has been declared a poison, infact tea is now being touted as a health drink due to polyphenols.Coffee is a poison so far heart is concerned. Textiles , well bengal had a huge cottage industry , but never had big scale textiles industry.
Your Gurudev Jyoti Basu spent every summer in UK , as it was too hot during summer in calcutta, while IT WAS COMING UP EVERY WHERE IN INDIA.
WHY NOT A SINGLE FOREIGN CAR MANUFACTURER OPENED A PLANT IN WEST BENGAL
I accept Ravi as a MUSLIM therefore his views about India and Hindus. The facade of Mona Sikh can not go on unchallenged. Enough of nonsense already.
This Manohar and Co. have nothing better to do other than supporting Islamic terror and Congress. They are forgetting that Congress with all its faults is not a sect of Islam so it is time they stop being allies of Islamic ideological terrorists.
RAVI, kudiyon ki tarah ronda kyun hai? Why you constantly need baisakhi from Manohar. If you are sikh then you are very ANAEMIC
You abused hindu gods, FACT, you admitted it FACT. Now if some do not forgive you, then why cry. Now I repeat what someone said before, who when upset, suddenly utters obscenity at Bhagwaan Ram, is it
1. Chuong Chu from China
2. Shalom Begin from Israel
3. Rasmussen from Iceland
4. Iqbal Kasab from Sialkot
5. Bhajji from Indian cricket team
bol puttar, ANSWER IS OBVIOUS INNIT
You made your bed of thorns, now lie on it. You want ALL Blogers to love you , find another blog, BUT DO NOT CRY, we Sikhs do not do that
Ravi Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 7:45 pm
We do not run away, unlike you.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:08 pm
You are no SIKH and don’t you dare insult Sikh community.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:12 pm
He is no Sikh but a crybaby from whining community.
President’s on was caught with Rs.1 Crore cash during recent Maharashtra municipal election.
Just wondering why our resident Congressis have not defended President’s son?
~~ JNU historians , LOONY LEFT OR just market savvy???????? ~~~
In IIT Delhi, which I had joined for my Mtech, JNU was a fantasy zone next door, where girls smoked and even doped and were supposed to be “permissive’ compared to the studious nerds we had in our classes. I visited JNU often, became friends with students and was curious to see what was it exactly which drove up the harmones of the guys in IIT.
The showboys of JNU then were the ex students– Sita ram Yechury and Prakash Karat, but talked about in hushed reverential tones, even thogh communism had become extinct except in China. Some of the “students” werre supposed to be non students who had managed to stay in the hostels for 15 years without being students…
The campus, by the way is gr8.
And now 10 years later I still go to JNU to dine with a friend who teaches there… and thru him got to know the fabled history professors. well my judgement thru discussions.
a) now the students are fixated with joining the media or the world bank !
b) Nobody is really onto the revolutionary stuff anymore as communism and left is dead, especially after mamta trounced the CPM.
c) The professors simply followed the left line earlier because they got scholorships to travel to the communist countries easily– especially CHINA. And now most of the newer teachers look cfor part assingments in the media… things are changing.
So it will be a different JNU which will emerge in the next 5-7 years as the older professors retire and the new ones get the positions.
Anonymous Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 8:07 pm
Simply put, unko ab akal aa gayi hai.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 7:36 am
I hope akal aa gayi hai…
Kal akal dubara gayab na ho jaaye…
Sahitya Akademi awardee is CISF constable
WHEN he was just 12 years old, Aditya Kumar Mandi saw his parents being excommunicated from their village — Burughutu in Bankura district of West Bengal — because they bought two bighas of land from another farmer.
“In our village, we could only own ancestral land,” says Mandi, now 38. “It was very cruel. People were forbidden from speaking to us, we could not use the village well, and our land was taken away. One day, my father left home and never returned,” he adds.
Manohar posted a very unusual story about a poet police constable who suffered cruelty in his village. ‘One day his father walked away, never to return’ I am reminded about Pipli Live, about the bone crushing poverty still present in India.
About farmers suicides which derailed Chandrababu Naidu who did good stuff with Cyberabad but slept and played the fiddle as farmers killed themselves.
Of all the tragedies that befall India, somehow farmers suicides bother me the most. Imagine the family, already in debt, now getting the double whammy- Daddy’s also gone now…..Mother India…Nargises everywhere
And then I saw your line Balwinder praaji, to Ravi, so quintessentially Punjabi, so no-nonsense – ‘You want ALL bloggers to love you, find another blog’ ..brilliant.
From abuse of Gods and men, to this rather wimpish whining avtar, you do swing between extremes Ravi. Cant you find some middle ground ?
Dr Mishra Reply:February 23rd, 2012 at 9:54 pm
want to say good night on a nIce note- only in India, a Sahitya Academy winner, a poet, a constable from a village – MERA BHAARAT MAHAAN
chek this other brilliant poet KUMAR VISHWAAS- politically active, patriotic, secular, witty, acidic- watch the latter half in particular- he will blow you away- http://www.youtube.co/watch?v=1kZpJvkhVzc
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 8:03 am
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:19 am
He is past middle or rear ground. He is at the very edge of the precipice.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:42 am
No thanks to you though
@RajeevS, I dont know much about naipaul’s view on ram Mandir. I have read his biography by Patrick French “The world is as it is”.it is an incredible book.
Naipaul as a writer is peer less.
Naipaul as an individual is a complete SOB.
The clue to understand Naipaul is to understand the racism he suffered. First Black racism in Trinidad, next white racism in UK
Initially he thought “he was more english than english”,
thus his first two book on India is DRAIN INSPECTORS REPORT.
It is said about naipaul “he doesn’t like blacks , he doesn’t like islam”
though his wife 25yrs junior is a pakistani muslim.
His is a story of DERACINATION, in trinidad , they were poor.totally dislocated , yet trying to create Gorakhpur in Trinidad,which they did.
His writings are mind boggling , and he had time to time punctured the english phoney pretensions. He had dismissed BRONTE sisters as sentimental tosh and EM Forster,a serialbuggerer of indian maalis(gardener).One of the line from his book “The Enigma of arrival” HIS PEACH BLOND EYELASHES SOMEHOW SUGGESTED IMBECILITY.Which means white equals imbecile
His WHITE wife was so devoted , a bit like sita to Ram, yet he treated her so shabbily , makes you ashamed to be an indian
Is the govt backtracking on gay sex between consenting adults an act of appeasement in connection with the UP election and the next Lok Sabha election. Muslim clergy opposed this; did government yield to them for fear of losing votes
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:19 am
That’s a funny situation for UPA govt. It can’t offend liberals and it can’t offend Mullahs…Congress is becoming a joke.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:26 am
The fact is this government has lost direction – MMS has not been given enough powers to be the real captain of the ship, so each minister or functionary seem to be working independently and at cross purposes, thereby shooting itself in the foot or suffering from foot-in-the-mouth disease more often than not.
As regards its conflicting stand on the gay-sex, your reading is probably correct.
As I have suggested earlier, we should have general elections now and let the people decide as to who should govern them. This state of affairs cannot go on.
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:40 am
There will be general elections in 6-8 months if Congress does well/ better than expected in the current Assembly elections- or else this government will limp along.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:10 am
the congress party has already lost it in UP.
Despite all the hype built up by a highly supportive media, the party seems to have lost the euphoria.
If you had watched the CNN-IBN debate conducted by Sagarika Ghosh, the despondency was palpable. Besides the host herself, the other staunch pillar, Yogendra Yadav, who, besides being a party brain-trust, is also said to be a psephologist, were of the “considered” opinion that the party may get around 50-60 seats in the company of Ajith Singh.
Therefore, the limp which we have observed for the last year will now onward progress into a drag, finally to collapse as 2014 approaches.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 10:05 am
(I am posting this a second time as my earlier post has been deleted)
The congress doesn’t look like it will do well in UP.
If you had followed Sagarika Ghose’s debate on CNN-IBN yesterday, you could well measure the huge sense of despondence that was palpable in the opinions of “experts” like Sgarika herself and Yogendra Yadav, the one man think tank and congressi-psephologist.
In their opinion, the congress may not get more than 50-60 seats in the company of Ajith Singh’s RLD.
I also remember the BSP representative telling Prannoy Roy to his face that none of the “surveys and opinion polls” conducted by NDTV in the last fifteen years has come true.
Prannoy Roy could be seen hugely embarrassed.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 10:20 am
What was the party wise seat prediction?
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:41 am
I do not read such deep thinking behind this- it is just plain ineptitude.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:06 am
my cousin is gay he loves u give him ur addres.neverthles in up muslims are 21% all over we are also we are 20%.any goverment has to keep their views in mind if they want their votes.
only few hindu zoinists most of indian hate this habit.
RSS IS THE BIGGEST CENTRE OF SODOMY IN INDIA.THAT IS WHAT ONE OF MY HINDU FRIEND AND EX-RSS WORKER TOLD ME.SO I CARE YOUR FEELINGS.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:48 am
what about Sitaram Kesari?
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 7:07 am
There was an old Hindi film
Ek jaan do armaan !
I missed it, fortunately
Try a little kindness
But high growth without the human touch can never really achieve true reconciliation between communities. At Sabarmati Ashram, home to the greatest Gujarati ever, I meet with Dara and Rupa Mody, a Parsi couple who lost their teenage son in the Gulberg society massacre. Their son’s body has never been found and they still grieve for him. In the last decade, not once has the chief minister or anyone from the government even visited them to share their tears. It’s the same story for almost all riot victims. It is this absence of remorse or any sense of compassion that reduces Modi’s attempts at image makeovers into little more than made for television photo-ops.
‘Sadbhavana’, as Gandhi saw it, is ultimately about kindness and compassion that rises above religious divides. It’s a spirit that Gujarat needs to rediscover to bring a genuine closure to the horror of 2002.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 3:47 am
Here lived Muslims, rarely missed
Now living on the outskirts of nearby Visnagar town, Yusuf takes a while before talking about the scars of 2002. “Pura khandaan khatam ho gaya. Modi ne bahattar ghante ki chhoot nahin di hoti to meri duniya tabah nahi hui hoti” (My entire family is dead. Had Modi not given 72 hours of freedom (to rioters), my world would not have come apart). Shabnoor, he adds, got married recently.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:12 am
they were killed in most heinous ways.sometime 3 yrs babies snatches from the lap of their mothers cut into pieces mix with tarcoal and pasted on roads.
“Closure” is a western concept. A visit by CM does not close that; if so, MMS can visit, the lady whose son was caught with 1 crore could visit….
Gujrat had major religious riots in its pre independence and post independence history. 1969 and 1985 riots were quite bad; with Justice Reddy and Justice Dave commission looking into them.
I think the last decade (post Godhra) is the only riot free decade in Gujrats history. Assuming it continues for the next few decades, one can view the 2002 riots as the riot to end all future riots. Let us hope it does not become the 1919 WW.
Gujrat riot, Delhi riot, Mumbai 11/26, Delhi high Court attack, Samjhota etc demonstrate that the state govts and central govt are incapable of preventing internal riots and terrorist attacks.
Part of the reason is our low regard for life.
Continued hounding of Modi will result in riots somewhere else – mass psychology works that way.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 8:00 am
” part of the reason is our low regard of life ”
This says it all. We just don’t care, will talk for few days and will move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:56 am
EXCEPT WHEN IT IS “MODI, MODI, RAPE, RAPE”
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
The links I provided were not about 2002 per se. They was/is about justice, passion and kindness to the innocent victims.
Sad to say, whether you and other Modi fans agree or not, these aspects are almost non-existent in the subsequent discourse by Modi – he only talks about progress and development to the exclusion of the above.
You concluded (a very surprising statement).
“Continued hounding of Modi will result in riots somewhere else – mass psychology works that way”.
And may one know who will be the instigators/masterminds?
Try this for kindness and contrition
1984 anti-Sikh POGROM.
4000 Sikh men, women and even children-all marked by their religion and massacred by Rajiv Gandhi’s goons and under his express orders “to teach them a lesson”
To rub salt into the wounds, not only that he does NOT apologise, he says “when a big tree falls, the earth will shake”
ANd then further salt is rubbed into the wounds. A Sikh taxi driver, is portrayed in the wall posters as a terrorist and people are asked “whether you will feel safe with this man”.
And then the Delhi chief minister pardons the butcher of Delhi, KISHORI LAL, a veteran congressman, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of the victims of THE ANTI-SIKH POGROM OF RAJIV GANDHI.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 7:23 am
The Congress is no lover of minorities. The Sikhs constitute only 3% of India’s population and thus their neglect by even shri Vinod Sharma on this blog.
In gujrat it was madness which took over and repeated attempts by all sorts of government agencies to implicate MOdi seem to be coming ot a nought. The fact that both sides of the population was killed proves that it was rioting. But at the end of the day we still believe a fair trial to convict the perpetuators should take place.
In contrast the Anti Sikh riots in Delhi have direct links to the COngressi leaders. This Kishori Lal pardoning is sad, bad and just shows the haiwaan face of the COngress. From top to bottom it is a COngress conspiracy.
Sajjan Kumar’s daughter who happens to stay in a colony where I once stayed boasted that “hum log dilli par hukamat karte hai…” In case Sajjan is implicated he will shout out and expose the biggest names of the COngress
On a more sombre note the healing touch which ended the Punjab problem gets defeated.
MERA BHARAT MAHAN, हॉस्पिटल के बाहर नवजात बच्ची पर सुअर ने किया हमलानई दिल्ली ।। दिल्ली में फलक की घटना अभी लोगों के दिलो-दिमाग से उतरी भी नहीं थी कि मध्य प्रदेश के गुना जिले में एक नवजात बच्ची के साथ ऐसी घटना हो गई जो किसी का भी दिल दहला दे। वहां एक सरकारी अस्पताल के बाहर मां की कोख से बाहर आते ही बच्ची सुअर के हमले का शिकार हो गई।
हमारे सहयोगी समाचार चैनल ‘टाइम्स नाउ’ ने यह खबर दी है। चैनल के मुताबिक गुना के एक सरकारी अस्पताल में समय पर भर्ती न हो पाने की वजह से शकरिया बाई ने अस्पताल परिसर के बाहर ही बच्ची को जन्म दिया। बच्ची ने अभी इस दुनिया में कदम रखा ही था कि जानलेवा हमले का शिकार हो गई। एक सुअर उसे मुंह में दबाकर भागा।
जब तक लोग देखते और हल्ला मचाते तब तक सुअर उस बच्ची की टांग को मुंह में दबाए दूर तक खींचता चला गया। तभी उधर से गुजर रहे एक किसान की नजर बच्ची पर पड़ी और उसने सुअर के चंगुल से बच्ची को बचाया।
इसके बाद लोगों के दबाव में अस्पताल ने बच्ची को भर्ती तो किया, लेकिन फिर जिला अस्पताल के लिए रेफर कर दिया। जिला अस्पताल में आईसीयू में इस बच्ची का इलाज चल रहा है। डॉक्टरों के मुताबिक बच्ची की बाईं टांग में काटने के निशान हैं और जगह-जगह चोटें आई हैं।
गौरतलब है कि दिल्ली में कुछ ही दिनों पहले फलक का मामला सामने आया था। ढाई साल की इस बच्ची को बुरी तरह घायल अवस्था में एम्स में भर्ती कराया गया था। उसकी देखभाल करने वाली लड़की ने ही उसे बुरी तरह पीटा था और उसके गालों में दांत से काट लिया था।
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RAM RAJYA MEIN YEH KYA HO RAHA HAI.GOPI JEE,YESTERDAY 2 MUSLIM GIRLS WERE RAPED BY 14 GUYS.
Gopi, closure is not western concept. justice, fairness, punishment and occasinal forgiveness s UNVERSAL.
Shenoy, we SHOULD BE ABLE to discuss Modi without bringing Sikh riots in.
MANOHAR, maybe once yu could also mention hindus in Kashmr, or Bangladeshi infiltratin in land of Ashish.
Parvez, SHOEB I thank you for indulging my request for defining asimilation, your answers were neat. This sardar was dominant in Amritsar and became micro minority in UK. He asimilated and integrated while going to gurudwara every week and giving grandest parties in Middlesex on Diwali and Baisakhi to which Labour MPs come dressed in Indian clothes!!
Manohar, Gopi, Shenoy pl u answer Janta ki adalat
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 11:21 am
1.one correction. IT IS NOT SIKH RIOTS. IT IS ANTI-SIKH POGROM.
2. The SIT has given report to the SC that Modi was NOT personally responsible for the deaths of 1300 people including 300 Hindus and about a thousand Muslims.
3. But, even after 10 years, if given two alternatives by the SC, one: to get justice to all the victims and let go of Modi for lack of evidence or two: punish Modi all the same but no justice to the victims, the secular fundoos will, in one voice take the second option of punishing Modi, even if the victims get no justice.
This is the kind of secularism we are practising.
As for the anti-Sikh pogrom, Rajiv Gandhi personally ordered it, had it executed with the full force of the Delhi police and also, shamefully, the army.
AND HE GOT A BHARAT RATNA for “his services to the nation”.
WHICH IS WHY I WILL NEVER AGREE TO DISCUSS ONLY MODI AND NOTHING ELSE.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
After Indira Gandhi’s assasination , apart from the Anti Sikh riots which occured across many cities and states , and Rajiv Gandhi was PM of India . the govt also carried out a cleansing of the security apparatus, which is not talked about much. All Sikh personnel from Delhi Police were repatriated to Punjab. Sikhs were kept away from the SPG which was raised protect the PM . No Sikh was given any sensitive security related appointment. But definition of secularism , liberalism, unity in diversity, keeps changing depending on who we are talking about.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
But then a Sikh was made a PM.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
A Sikh, but a very pliant, very forgiving and very accommodative sardar.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Dr. Manmohan Singh on the floor of the parliament apologised to the Sikh Community in 2004 and apparently the apology has been accepted. Congress has even been in power in the state. Personally, that is not enough and it is shameful that no justice has been done.
Also for the first time, we had a Sikh as the chief of the army staff and there n number of Sikhs in key positions.
Contrast this with the BJP, no remorse, no apology, nothing and the links which I provided show no compassion and kindness to the victims (Muslims and Hindus) of 2002. And they complain that Modi is being hounded unnecessarily. The next few days will see more programmes/write-ups about Gujarat, as we approach 10 years after the ghastly chapter and Modi may not come out with flying colours.
Talking about their attitude, (many will know this), last Sunday on ‘We the People’ programme, Sudheendra Kulkarni was asked ‘ Why the Muslims do not vote for the BJP?”. Instead of answering, he shot back in all seriousness and with a straight face that the Muslims should introspect as to why they do not vote for the BJP. There were smirks all around.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Would like to have seen the smirks
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
What is an apolgy? They should first withdraw Rajiv’s Bharat ratna .
Aplogise and free Kishori Lal secretly
Wah Janab Wah !
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
An apology is what apology is – we are sorry. People in general are very forgiving, if you did not know it. Sikhs seem to have forgiven the Congress.
Contrast this with Modi, when merely asked whether he would consider expressing remorse and apologise (do not forget the mayhem happened with him as the chief minister and the home minister, and he still is) by Karan Thapar and we all know what happened. Did he lose his nerve, as it happens with you here so often and just left the interview?
Now should I in turn say waah janaab waah
BTW: please recall (only if care to) what I have said earlier – he did not deserve the Bharat Ratna and have condemned the release of Kishori Lal (I was the one who posted the link). In spite of it, you wish to draw different conclusions, be my guest.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
And pointedly a sardar was made to apologise to his own community for the murders committed by his party, that too after 20 years!
He should also have gracefully announced that the Gandhi family would “surrender” the Bharat Ratna of Rajiv Gandhi.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
Instead of answering, he shot back in all seriousness and with a straight face that the Muslims should introspect as to why they do not vote for the BJP
TO MY INFORMATION 17%OF MUSLIM VOTES GOES TO BJP.in next up elections others will vote for peace party started by muslims.we are 21%.when 9%yadavs and 9%dalits,28lacs lodhey and 4%jats can have their cm why not muslims.up and bihar must have mulim cm.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
A country goes through violence, pulls, pushes, adjustments, accommodation….
Several saradrjis have been made chiefs of army since then.
But the tragedy of that era is more than the killing fields ..
The PM of India was accessible to the common man; there was no elaborate security arrangement.. I remember meeting and shaking hands with Indira Gandhi, along with many others; where the security was just police manning the lines.
The black cats and all other apparatus, while important in todays terror environment, forces the average citizen to watch his leader from a distance. It was not like this prior to early 1980s
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
rAJEEV gANDHI made the statement “when a great tree falls….”
You mentioned he personally ordered the killings — was it a slip or did the inquiry commission arrive at the conclusion
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
you know the working of Inquiry commissions. It would have been sacrilegious for the commission to name him.
However, there were reports that when he alighted from the special aircraft that brought him to Delhi from Calcutta, he told some of his closest cronies, ” hum unlo dekh lenge”.
The reason why Sajjan Kumar, Tytler, Shastri, Bhagat and even Kamal Nath went about the task of “teaching a lesson” to the Sikhs was the belief they had that it was what was ordered for them and what was expected of them.
Please also read what Praveen Saxena has narrated below.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
However, there were reports – circulated by the RSS.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
and the massacres? they were also “conducted” by the RSS?
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
I think MASSACRE is the right word..and If the number ran in thousands it would have been called GENOCIDE..
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
i say even one is dead by mistake modi should say sorry.and he should be punished if found guilty.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 11:25 am
I think you are confusing Assimilation with Unity in Diversity.
No one has ever asked you to change your appearence for the sake of living in the UK.
@ravi you are speaking to an echo chamber. Nothing can go in all will come back. Why burden with such difficult words unity in diversity
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 11:40 am
I am not sure I accept that “CLOSURE” is a western concept.
Do people from the East do not require closure.
By appologising to the Afghan people was President Obama not trying to bring in a closure to an unfortunate incident.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
“Jo Beet gaya usse beet jaane do – usse rok ke mat rakho”
Quoting Nasiruddin Shah in Ijaazat as an example of cultural expression of closure in Indian society.
Dr MMS has accused foreign funded (who else funds) NGOs for the Kundankulam nuclear plant trouble. I think he is right on his assessment. However, the opposition parties have started mauling on him, he should not retract, but provide evidence.
NCTC centres have to be set up, settled. It is a sad day indeed – whether parliament is supreme or democracy is this vaunted s–t – when a person like Mamta can derail anti-terrorism (or for that matter many other important )initiatives in the country.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Wrangle over NCTC is not just about dispute between States and Centre.
There are constituional aspects at play as well .
Read here : http://ptlbindia.blogspot.in/2012/02/constitutionality-of-nctc-challenged.html.
Apparently, there is “Google Angle” as well at play with filtering out the contents. Read about it here : http://cjnewsind.blogspot.in/2012/02/nctc-intelligence-agencies-and.html
I read somewhere here about the potental Congress seats in UP.
Do you have any survey on the potential seats of other parties.?
I am surprised at the low turnout in UP. I believe spreading of polling does result in lower turnouts because people may lose the “celebration” interest.
75% plus turnout happened in the 2011 elections in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, WB etc UP average lookks like lower 50%. Considering the population of UP, it means almost 100 million people stayed home. It is not a good sign whoever wins the election
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
oops- if we subtract minors, it still is a big number, say 70 million staying home!
Anti-Sikh POGROM – Did it ever exist
BV Shenoy is very fond of using the word POGROM whenever he refers to the massacre of Sikhs by Congress workers. The fact that this deplorable incident cannot even remotely be classed as a POGROM does not deter him. Never mind the accuracy just measure the propaganda value, seems to be his sole motive.
POGROM is a Yiddish word and was initially made famous due to several organised massacres, especially of Jews, in countries like Russia, Latvia, Poland, Germany, etc. These incidents resulted in millions of Jews being killed. Whereas during the riots, that followed the assassination of Mrs Gandhi, only a few thousands of innocent Sikhs were slaughtered by the Congress Gundas. There is no doubt that it was a massacre and should never be forgotten, it was still far from being a POGROM.
The Sikh community is healthy and spread all over the world. The Jewish population of Ukraine, Latvia, etc. is totally decimated. Most were killed and those that survived the POGROM migrated either to Western Europe, the USA, or to Israel. Majority of Sikhs still live in India, as they have done so for centuries.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
This ‘pogrom’ is made use of as balm to ‘treat’ (justify) the festering wound of 2002, that just refuses to heal. It happened yesterday and was repeated today. Must be really useless medicine.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
It is used – under the direction of Nagpur dons – to take some of the heat off Mr Modi.
The more it is used the more public sees through their pathetic attempts at concealing a villain.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Public does not consider him a villain, nor try to conceal. Unless the way they conceal their disdain is by electing him again and again, also clamouring for him to be the PM (which I also want)
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
That is true but not universal.
During 1930s Hitler was very popular and was elected. Did not stop him from being a villian.
There are many such examples from other parts of the world.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Well Hitler was not “elected” after he started his wild programs. He just continued as a dictator.
Modi got elected twice after the 2002 riots. He will get elected again if he contests a fourth time
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Sure you mean wild POGROMs
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
By the same token, we should not hold Rajiv Gandhi and the congress responsible for 1984. He won with a thumping majority subsequently – the highest number of seats ever won by the Congress.
As i have stated several times, I hold him responsible for not doing anything or enough to put an end to the mayhem with an hour so of its happening. I also hold Modi responsible for 2002.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
But India is the only country in the world, which honoured the villain of 1984 Sikh genocide with a Bharat Ratna!
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
Hitler was also awarded the Iron Cross, First Class in 1918
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
subtle difference, don’t you think?
- between Hitler’s getting the Iron cross 2 decades before starting the 2nd world war and Rajiv Gandhi being awarded the Bharat Ratna AFTER, ahem the non-pogrom that he so delighted in?
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
But not 2 decades before his anti Jew programmes.
I do not support Rajiv Gandhi, he played with terrorism and it consumed him. The question of Honours going mainly to Congress Wallahs is a different topic. Feel free to start it and I will contribute.
AshishC Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Hitler did not get the Iron Cross for being anti-Jew.. please do not take this line any further- bad argument, let it rest.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Anybody who took part in WW1 received , Black Cross.
So many were given out it hardly had any prestige
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
This is typical Ravi’s tactic..Always divert the debate towards Modi and when asked about 1984, he comes up with lots of excuses. He will start talking about difference between masscre, genocide, murder etc. Compare Modi to Hitler and try to prove Rajiv was innocent..knew nothing.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Ram Puniyani examines why the 2002 Gujarat riots were the worst violence since 1961
“INDIA HAS witnessed many an act of communal violence. Starting from the Jabalpur riot of 1961 to the last major one in Kandhmal (August 2008). Many lives were lost in the name of religion. Amongst these, the Gujarat carnage is a sort of marker. It came in the backdrop of massive anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984, the anti Muslim violence of post-Babri demolition and the horrific burning of Pastor Graham Steward Stains in Kandhmal. It was a quantitative and qualitative departure from the other major carnages which had rocked the country.”
I am not the only one who is fond of the word POGROM.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
So just like you, he is wrong too in the use of the word POGROM.
Likewise I am not alone in drawing a parallel between the LeT and the RSS.
The very same Ram Puniyani says it thus.
One does not know as to what criterion the US based Terrorism Research Center, the US think tank on this issue, has used but it has gone on to label RSS, the patriarch of Hindutva organizations, BJP, VHP, Bajarang dal etc., as a terrorist outfit. RSS shares this category with other organizations defamed in different parts of the World as terrorists like Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Hamas etc. Sangh’s (RSS progeny) own definition and understanding of terrorists has been summed up by RSS pracharak (propagator) and current Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi in the sentence, “All Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims!” How come a Muslim baiter organization itself has been so labeled!
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
One should be surprised if Ram Puniyani didn’t write how and what he did.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
You brought him in to support you. I just amplified your own choice.
I see nothing what so ever wrong with Ram Puniyani’s views. However, I know he is not every one’s galss of Lassi.
PAKTEAHOUSE.NET, article on Antiamericanism part 2, Sardar Balwinder Singh has spoken and said his “flock” will come and put life in anemic pak blog.
Pl you all come keeping dignity and credibilty of India in mind esp our history and Pak experts like Gopi, Ashish, Mishraji, Vijay and Rajeev, rajiiv
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
Balwinder you are doing a grand job…Please stay there
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
I have not checked it .. Will do
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
praaji can i go there.
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
pakistan tea house is run by hindu zoinists.they are paid for writing anti-islam bloggs.repeating same idiotic things again and again,like jaziya anf foriegn faith
etc.u wear foreign clothes like coat and pant if somebody weep,it i foreign dress u will not leave it.rex minor and rajtoo and few more are nothing but bunch of donkeys who repeat same thing again and again.i think this site is joint venture of rss and anti-establishment pakistanis.
friedship with american is always kiss of death.
Ravi has successfully diverted the debate..This is what he does all the time and he is ably supported to Communal Congressis in his efforts.
I am still waiting for answer to my question-
Why is it INDIAN left liberals and INDIAN muslim intellectual never speak up for the rights of minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Now don’t hide behind “We are secular and they are Islamic” argument. We are talking about basic human rights of minorities. Let us not forget Pakistan was result of partition and had obligation to treat minorities as equal citizen.
Looking at the current scenario, muslims have three countries in subcontinent. Out of these they are masters in 2 countries enjoying 100% preference over minorities and in India they are demanding preferential treatment and are actually kingmaker. They indulge in violence at will and then are protected by battery of NGO. Why are Hindus not provided such privilege in Pak and Bangladesh?
Any answers??? This hypocrisy can not be tolerated anymore..For muslims the situation is “Paanchon ungli ghee mein aur sar kadhai mein” Maze hi Maze hein..
engrich Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
preference over minorities and in India they are demanding preferential treatmen
pagal khane kab ja rahe ho.
@ Ravi and Manohar
Since we have heard this MOdi chapter about 6000 times in the past six months why dont we also discuss the DIRECT COMPLICIT ROLE OF SONIA:S HUSBAND & RAHUL’S FATHER , shri rajiv gandhi in issueing inflammmatory and hurtful statements– while his chosen inner circle , buddies, sycophants, hangers on,
Dharma dass Shastri
celeberated death on Delhi roads. There were all rewarded and made Ministers by the Congress “secular” force.
The orginal fires were lit by CONGRESS thru sposnsorship of Bhindranwale and his murderers thru Congress Home Minister Zail SIngh which resutled in cold brutal murder of 25000 (mostly Hindus) in Punjab.
THE GUY WHO GAVE SOOTHING SPEECHES AND WORKED FOR AMITY IN 1984 WAS ONE MR ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE.
and if you dont beleive me … read Vinodji’s blog “Abki Baari Atal Bihari…”
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
For the first part of your post, I have expressed my views twice already today elsewhere on this blog. Just navigate and see for yourself.
And I salute Atal behari Vajpayee. I do not have to read Vinod Sharma’s blog. I believe you.
PS: Do not worry, I will not ask you any counter questions, as I know there will be no answers – you did not show any nerve and scooted at least six times previously. No point in pursuing the matter seventh time. Right?
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
You have been scooting everytime you are asked about criminal Rajiv Gandhi. This post of yours is another attempt to scoot.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
It is not a question of now what. Let us all discuss this at least 600 tiems in comparison to the Gujart ritos which have been discussed at least 6000 times here. In comparison to the Gujrat riots– we can see a reward pattern for the Conress perpetuators– including Bharat ratna for Rahul;s faher and Sonia’s husband.
We also need to discuss the creation of Bhindranwale by the Congress resulting in 25000 murders by terrorists in Punjab– mostly Hindus. This in turn inflamed Hindu passions so much that when rajiv gandhi’s loved ones and Congress lumpens, lit the fires, it resulted in Delhi riots.
In fact the Devil i jahnnum must be saying , “wah Congress Wah…”
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Why don’t we widen it further and make the topic as The use of riots as a political weapon in India
That will bring in the discussion the FACT that RSS has an official policy to consolidate its Hindu Right Vote Bank by way of Riots.
Will I be allowed to quote Prof Ashish Nandy. Or is he banned on account of being a JNU type.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
600 times – you do not discuss some matters not even once. I have only heard thundering silence.
For your sake, so let us discuss this at least once more, then you can copy and paste 599 times. I would not have the time to do so.
OK, I will start the discussion – IMO, Indira Gandhi was the worst PM we have had – she tried to subvert our democratic institutions and almost succeeded, promoting Bal Thakre and Bhindranwale (I have said this many times earlier). I told you go back several threads and read, I have answered some of your other questions. I am not going to repeat what I have said.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Vijay Kumar Khanna
My views expressed in my post….Anti-Sikh POGROM – Did it ever exist
….answer your questions.
BTW it was B V Shenoy who brought into play the Sikh massacres.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
“BTW it was B V Shenoy who brought into play the Sikh massacres”.
And Vijay was there in support on both the occasions.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
I kind of guessed that the motives of Vijay’s questions were mischievous designed to corner us.
Anonymous Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
I think it is not very important to debate what the word pogram means. But it is important to understand Congress’ communal policies of first supporting Bhindranwale (even Congress historians acknowledge this in its official publications).
Then creating a mostly artificial grieviance that Sikhs were being discriminated against in India thru Bhindranwale’s hate speeches.
This mistake too the Congress is repeating to Muslims by time and spreading lies that Batla House was fake and RSS was behind 26/11.
And then finally some Congreemen particpating actively in the riots in Delhi.
So in the net account statement– 25,000 dead in Punjab during the terror years
Another 4000 dead in Delhi in the anti-sikh riots.
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
What is important to you, is not the same as what I consider important.
POGROM is a form of exageration which in turn is subtle form of lying.
If the point you are trying to make is that Congress too indulges in communal politics, then I offer no defence. My POV is not if Congress has or has not used communal issues as a political tactic. It clearly has.
Contrast this with the BJP, which is root and branch communal.
I researched to find out what could you have meant.
Now I know.
We protest in the strongest possible terms against the charges of criminal offence levied against Ashis Nandy, a political psychologist, sociologist and an internationally renowned public intellectual of the highest caliber. This is the latest case of harassment of intellectuals, journalists, artists, and public figures by antidemocratic forces that claim to speak on behalf of Hindu values sometimes and patriotism at other times, especially in Gujarat, but who have little understanding of either. What is pernicious in this case is that the charge of criminal offence against Nandy levied under Section 153 (A) and (B) for his newspaper article “Blame the Middle Classes” , was brought by the head of the Gujarat Branch of the National Council of Civil Liberties. The State Government of Gujarat by giving its permission for filing the case has shown its own complicity in the case.
AshishC Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:24 am
This is not the first time attempted humour on my part has fallen flat on its face.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:52 am
I am sorry. For a minute I thought that you swept this Prof on the garbage tip along with other JNU types.
What I have read of his work, gives me the impression that this Prof is a brave man.
Tell me if my judgemnet is baised.
AshishC Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 11:44 am
I am somewhat familiar with his work and I do not dream of doubting his credentials..
I think there was no need to finger him or harass him using litigation. I certainly do not support Modi/ Gujarat government in their actions.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 11:55 am
Delighted to hear that
This Modi vs Rajiv Gandhi has been discussed to boredom. Vijay your knowledge of the khalistani movement is spot on. Shenoy, there has never been any evidence that Rajiv Gandhi ordered the riots, Inaction a la Modi maybe, but one must also keep in mind the absolutely poisoned atmosphere of those times.
This debate is better which Balwinder has invited us to, although engerich tajender has gone in already, haha, they are being blasted by brahminist conspiracy theories. http://pakteahouse.net/2012/02/24/a-study-of-anti-americanism-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-84485
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
No doubt you will put them on the right track.
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
BRHMNS WERE THE ALLY OF AURANGZEB AND BRITISHERS BUT NOW WEEPING FOR THE PLIGHT OF INDIANS.
Dr Mishra Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
In particular Gopi, Ashish, Vijay, Shenoy, Parvez, Shoeb, Mohan would be very welcome on this interesting blog on PTH. Come on guys, just one blog lets show them what a merry bunch we Indians are
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:20 am
it is blog of few idots who write nothing but bullshit.i think they are paid.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:36 am
I have visited PTH few times and found it very interesting, though I
have never posted my views there. What I noticed on the website
was that most of the bloggers contributing use fake indentities which
somehow puts me off.
And yes, I noticed our friend in is old avtar of Tajender spewing his
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:04 am
doctor saheb conversion in india took place mostly during british raj.patwari books can be checked.how the names of land owners changed.it was not because of jaziya.my city in up was captured by muslims in 1198.even today 80%of population is non muslim.
Khapodia has done a hit wicket. He is saying Darbara Singh(Congress) was CM of punjab at the time when Zail Singh(Congress) home minister was sponsoring the sikh osama in amritsar.
Doesn’t add up does it. I have heard that congress’s contribution is that it allowed over the years, sikh osama aka bhindrenwale grow into an adult by SANJAY GANDHI as a foil to another sikh RSS , akali dal..
@RAVI, as much you are so keen on trawling information on saffron brigade from wherever you can , would you be kind enough to give the bloggers “insider’s view” of how sikhs in UK/London viewed the whole thing.
Am I wrong in saying 90% supported Bhindranwale .
@RAJEEVS, you are aghast at the indifference of the left and not so left intellectuals towards the plight of hindus in bangladesh , and as much you were impatient at my inability to locate the exact cause of conversion in bengal, would you kindly tell us WHYDESPITE HINDUS GOT SELECTIVELY MURDERED TO THE TUNE OF 25000(according to Vijay Khanna, himself a hindu punjabi) not a single hindu retaliated , it is classic hindu spinelessness gene
Ravi Reply:February 24th, 2012 at 11:52 pm
I would not go and say that 90% supported, but a very large number did. Uncomfortably large.
One saw Khalsa symbols more prominently displayed than they were before or after that period.
A lot of funding went from here to Punjab to fund Khalistani’s
My view is that state should never ever use religion as a weapon, no matter which religion. Fundamentalism and State are an incendiary mix.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:13 am
Shan Nirad Choudhary I think you should keep cleaning the butt of the goras rather than butting in where you dont have knowledge.
Sanjay Gandhi died in 1980, while the problem started in 1980.
The Congress sponsored Bhindranwale because it wanted an agenda more reliously extreme than the Akalis. Zail Singh wanted to humiliate Darbara and keep him in check as was Mrs Gandhi;s policy of trying to keep all her CM’s under a scare,
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:15 am
Spineless Hindus ? According to Engrich and Ravi all the killings and riots are done
by RSS only. RSS is not an Hindu organization ?
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:22 am
it is not i say but all invetigating agencies says and perpetuators are in jail.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:33 am
You proved my point when you sad “it is classic hindu spinelessness gene”
Hindus are not capable of murder so all these killing in gujarat riots did not happen or were mass suicide committed by muslims.
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:16 am
pagalkhane kab ja rahe ho.
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:40 am
shan why u write bullshit can u ask vijay khanna the date and place where 25000 were killed.like this u are contradicting ur own statements.if brhmn goverment loose power million will convert to christinity as hidu is a system of slavery not a proper religion.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:58 am
on 26/11, within a matter of two hours 150 people were gunned down on the busy streets and railway stations of Mumbai, even in the presence of policemen.
Were they all spineless Hindus? There were many Muslims too who were gunned down. According to you they too were spineless.
So what the hell are you talking about . Car industry should find a natural habitat in west bengal due close proximity to jamshedpur and durgapur, but it didn’t.
CPM replaced the state apparatus with the party apparatus. They vandalised EDUCATION , with every appointment vetted by CPM HQ. The govt hospitals were a bedlam all courtsey of 4th class staff barbarism.
Jyoti Basu’s spending every summer in UK has the same connotation as Emelda Marcos pilinh 50000 pairs of shoes when most phillipinos walked bare footed.
No wonder when the PM of hungary landed at DumDum Airport sometimes in 1996 , he said
“THE MOMENT I LANDED I COULD MAKE OUT THIS PLACE WAS RUN BY COMMUNISTS”
well he should know.
By the way thanks for making me younger than you, with your reference to “schooled in CPM’s Bengal”
As a matter of fact I went to St Michaels in Kurji patna , then moved to calcutta at class7, when I enrolled at Scottish Church Collegiate School
WHYDESPITE HINDUS GOT SELECTIVELY MURDERED TO THE TUNE OF 25000(according to Vijay Khanna, himself a hindu punjabi) not a single hindu retaliated , it is classic hindu spinelessness gene.
shan before writing any bullshit u should give some thought.where 25000 were buried
or burnt what was their name.most of the conversion took place under british time.u and vivekanad confirmed before as well that hindu apartheid social was responsible that.vijay khanna must have been paid by zoinists to write to write bullshit.
it is like 3 million mascared by pak armies in bangldesh.while true figure is
first 150000 non begalees and pak supporting bengalees by mukti bahini and their indian agents then same numbers were killed by pak armies in retaliation.then few hundreds were killed by bengalees after sepration.
may these were by sen rajas and brhmns as they were ruling mafia of bengal.
What has evidence got anything to do with propaganda?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 5:23 am
I think you are suffering from Congressites.
The Punjab problem lasted for 14 years from 1980 to 1994. The yearly figures oif those killed becasue the problem– terrorists, policmen, innocents, those killed in riots etc varied from 2-3000 yearly. The anti-Sikh riots too need to be taken as part of the punjab problem. Please count operation Bluestar and subesquent operations also.
I think nobody wants to get the real figures out as that would mean scratching the wounds
In Punjab nobody buries the dead. So your support for engrich and his oxymoron statements make me smile.
I think rather than giving a baseless reply, look into the facts. I know a lot more about it as I lived there for some time and had senior relativs in the police.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 5:41 am
Your answer has nothing to do with what I have articulated. You can go back 300 years to justify and defend your holy cows and bulls. Perhaps, you have
Even if I am suffering from Congressites (whatever that means), is it a crime and under what sections of the Indian Penal Code or any other Indian or International law?
All I can say that it was a nice attempt on your part to defend the indefensible.
Some facts about those who continue to shout ” Bapu hum sharminda hain tere katil jinda hain”
Such wide-scale violence cannot take place without police help. Delhi Police, whose paramount duty was to upkeep law and order situation and protect innocent lives, gave full help to rioters who were in fact Congress Workers or else mercenaries hired by the Indian National Congress who where [sic?] working under able guidance of sycophant leaders like Jagdish Tytler and H K L Bhagat. It is a known fact that many jails, sub-jails and lock-ups were opened for three days and prisoners, for the most part hardened criminals, were provided fullest provisions, means and instruction to “teach the Sikhs a lesson”. But it will be wrong to say that Delhi Police did nothing, for it took full and keen action against Sikhs who tried to defend themselves. The Sikhs who opened fire to save their lives and property had to spend months dragging heels in courts after-wards.
-Jagmohan Singh Khurmi, The Tribune
The chief weapon used by the mobs, kerosene was supplied by a group of Congress Party leaders who owned filling stations. In Sultanpuri, Brahmanand Gupta, the president of the A-4 block Congress Party distributed oil while Congress Party MP Sajjan Kumar “instructed the crowd to kill Sikhs, and to loot and burn their properties” as he had in other meetings throughout New Delhi. In much the same way, meetings were held in places like Cooperative Colony in Bokaro where P.K. Tripathi, president of the local Congress Party and owner of a gas station in Nara More, provided kerosene to mobs. Aseem Shrivastava, a Masters student at the Delhi School of Economics described the organized nature of the mobs in an affidavit submitted to the Misra Commission:
The attack on Sikhs and their property in our locality appeared to be an extremely organized affair…There were also some young men on motorcycles, who were instructing the mobs and supplying them with kerosene oil from time to time. On more than a few occasions we saw auto-rickshaw arriving with several tins of kerosene oil and other inflammable material such as jute-sacks.
The Congress opponents such as Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) strongly condemned the riots. Sikh author Khushwant Singh, who has otherwise been critical of the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), mentions that RSS and BJP helped and protected the Sikhs from the rioters, and the BJP leader Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself intervened at a couple of places to help the Sikh taxi drivers.[
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Praveen Saxenaji, Vijay Kumar,
the congressi troll here is talking about evidence while the jihadi says what if a few thousand Sikhs are killed.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:56 am
I said nothing of the kind.
I said a few thousand Sikhs were killed and that does not amount to a POGROM. A word that you used to create DRAMA and there by LIE.
No end to your lies, is there.
Some of the big events which give you an idea of the toll the punjab problem took
a)Bombing of Air India plane– 370 (i think) killed
b) Operation bluestar– 93 armymen and officially 493 present in golden temple (official) Unofficial is about double for both– army and
c) train killings– selctive killings I recall of 110,80, and 45 and 32 in one go. And randon killings all along the 14 years. I had to travel in buses many a time in those years… always with a word of caution in those years. Every few days we would hear of someone getting killed.
d) The tragedy of the youth who was pushed into terrorism, many many died. Would not have happened in case the problem had been settled differently right from inception and not fanned by encouraging Bhindranwale. We need to remember that the youth who drifted to militancy or were enticed into it… were our youth.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:03 am
The credit for this “Sikh nation’s struggle for independence” goes entirely to the smiling cobra, Zia.
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:05 am
he used to look like band master not cobra
Vijay Kumar ne kachchi goliyan nahi khelin. I talk on facts.
here is a chapter on on official secret fiogures of COIN– counter insurgency operations in Punjab. This is froma book by Anant mathur. If you want I can put together figures which will prvoe that the figure could be higher.
The attack on the World Trade Center brought home the truth expressed succinctly by KThe Indian Government and its SFs were spectacularly successful in counter-insurgency (COIN) operations in the northern State of Punjab. The violent insurgency consumed 21,469 lives before it was comprehensively defeated in 1993.4 The Punjab campaign ranks as one of the bloodiest, technologically advanced, recent, and successful COIN campaigns in the world. Punjab provides a classic example of a COIN campaign in the modern era. It was a campaign fought in the glare of the media and telephone connectivity. It saw extensive use of AK-47s, rocket launchers and improvised explosive devices (IEDs) by the terrorists. This makes it most relevant for studying the lessons to apply them in current and future COIN operations.
PLEASE NOTE 21,469 is the OFFICIAL FIGURE
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:56 am
Therefore, are you trying to tell the world that because of the what you have stated above and also below (bombing of Air India plane, etc.) that Rajiv Gandhi personally ordered the massacre of Sikhs, as claimed here yesterday?
1) Two other bloggers had the guts ( a very rare commodity among a section of the bloggers here) to question the statement.
2) “Vijay Kumar ne kachchi goliyan nahi khelin. I talk on facts”. I believe you, my only doubts are ‘kaunsi goliyan’.
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:02 am
Vijay Kumar ne kachchi goliyan nahi khelin
asal mein isne bhaang ki gooliyan khain hain.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:23 am
Muridke mein bana Bhang or afeem ka “Hafeez Saeed churan” aap ke ghar mein hoga. Remember Hafeez Saeed had given special drugs to all of the terroirsts in the 26/11 attacks
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
had given special drugs to all of the terroirsts in the 26/11 attacks
director of entire drama were sacred brhmns of IB.MOST OF THE VICTIMS WERE MUSLIMS.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Fantastic Engrich! very creative !
Do you think of all this alone or is the entire Muridke team behind you?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:25 am
I never said Rajiv Gandhi personally ordered the massacre. He just turned a blind eye when it was happening
He further made a hurtful remark dismissing it as “Dhairt hilit hai.. jab ped girta hai..”
And then rewarded Sajjan Kumar, Dharma Das Shastri, Titler, HK L BHagat with MP tickets and prize portfolios.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
I know you have not said it, therefore can we conclude that youu do not agree with the propaganda unleashed here that he did not personally order the massacre? Yes or No?
While waiting for the answer – perhaps for eternity – i must ‘compliment’ for the stout defence you put to protect and support ……………..
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Let me repeat that I beleive that Rajiv Gandhi did not personally supervise the massacre. He was naive or dumb not to see it happen and was not fit enough for Bharat Ratna.
He further insulted the SIkh populace by saying that when a a tree falls….
He compounded it by rewarding the rioters by giving them Parliamentary tckes and even making a few of them as Ministers.
The Congress was responsible at least 30% for the mess in Punjab by its communal game and today has rewarded Kishir lal with freedom.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
Thanks. I got the answer I was looking for.
ha ha . Very good joke.
India taken off polio endemic list by WHO
India, which has been polio-free for over a year now, was on Saturday taken off the list of polio endemic countries by the World Health Organisation.
This announcement was made by Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad at the polio summit 2012 here in the presence of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Great news. I just hope no political party tries to take credit for this.
Credit for this wonderful job should only go to INDIA.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:07 am
IMO, not possible. The whole drive is at the ground level – different parties are in power at the centre, states, municipalities, corporations and panchayats. Moreover, this has been a sustained drive for over 15 years or so. I have not read anywhere that any political party trying to take credit for it. Looks like a totally health oriented initiative.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Credit goes to India
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:23 am
credit goes to Rotary Clubs – they have been tirelessly working on this.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:38 am
In my area, it is the Municipal Health department that has been very active for last 15 years or so. In fact, even yesterday, group of workers and volunteers had spread around to administer the drops, some even positioning themselves outside the railway station and near the bus stops.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:53 am
The polio eradication programme was concieved and initiated by Dr Harshvardhan , Health Minister in the Madan Lal Khorana govt at Delhi. Dr Harshvardhan unlike politicians of the day never takes credit for it .
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Praveen, Gopiji, Manohar,
Thanks for the information.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:36 am
Where is the queue of swabhimani’s, I want to join it.
Close encounters of the troubling kind
While the Police Commissioner claimed the force got a tip-off around midnight and that his men knocked at the door of the suspects at about 1 a.m., area residents said they were asked to remain indoors by the police as early as 10 p.m. on Wednesday. Other contradictions include the absence of aural and visual effects normally associated with several minutes of “indiscriminate” firing: neighbours heard only a few individual shots and just two bullet holes were visible to reporters who got a peek at the crime scene.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:22 am
This whole affair smells something real bad. Ya they were bank robbers. And bigger robbers are wandering around protected by the police!
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:45 am
Unless, the police are sensitized and made to pay for their crimes, ‘fake encounters’ will continue all over the country.
Gopi and others
Here is a good article of the ground realities in UP, especially in the Bundelkhand region. A must read.
Coaching colonels in Bundelkhand, Einstein Public School in Lalganj
Five full days of travels through Uttar Pradesh’s heartland and its distant Bundelkhand only underline the fact that the aspirational upsurge that we have seen envelop the rest of India is also vibrant here, never mind the state’s broken politics where a mere 30 per cent vote share can reward you with a majority and 25 per cent leaves you a distant second. No wonder then that all the four vote-seekers, the SP, BSP, Congress and BJP, speak the same aspirational language, though the idiom and emphasis vary.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:51 am
Thanks. Quite inspirational …also sad in the sense “fly by night” operators are taking advantage of these people.
I have thought and worried about how army will recruit jawans and officers in a growing economy, because there are more jobs, better paying than govt/army available to choose. I hope the army preparation schools spread in other parts.
The reports say that only 52- 55% citizens voted in the phases so far. That means 70 million voters did not vote, assuming 25% is below the voting age. That is quite troubling. May be people are turned off by politicians such as Anu Tandon, and lumping all in the same bucket, cursing “kya fayada hai”.
UP must be divided into 4–6 smaller states for effective development.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Does Mayawati have something to do with this aspirational drive? May be the news media covered only her bad aspects???
Or is it driven by what they see on TV from other parts of the country?
JNU types should study where and how this motivation arises. Why is a grand mother of today irons shirts all day so she can send her grand children to good schools wheeras something like this would not have happened 5-10 years ago.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Mayawati! Not necessarily. This process started before the advent of Behenji and is not restricted to UP alone, we see it all over the country. I think the advent of the electronic media must be playing its part for people to raise the level of their aspirations, more important how to go about it and putting the future of their progeny on a firmer and surer foundations.
I am sure social scientists (not necessarily the JNU types) would be looking at the churning that is taking place.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
I suppose you will be aware of this, but here goes.
During our early years of independence, government service and the armed forces used to be the first choice in parts of the country, especially in UP, Bihar and other north Indian states, plus Tamil Nadu too, Not sure about AP, Karnataka and Kerala.
On sole exception has been Maharashtra (perhaps only Western part) and perhaps Gujarat too. Maharashtra, due to overarching presence of the business environment in the city of Bombay, providing enough opportunities to get better paying jobs, hence perhaps no takers for the sarkari jobs. For the last 40 years or so, the Maharashtra Government conducts ‘free’ classes and coaching for the locals to have a shot at the elite services. It is perhaps the only state, where the majority of IAS/IPS personnel are not locals (Marathi). There is another reason (Marathi psyche) as to why many from the state do not join the central services and transferable jobs.
The armed forces have been facing serious shortage of quality officers and personnel for last few decades or so. The last I had read it, the figure was 11000+ at the officer levels. What is the solution? Perhaps, better salaries. I do not know.
May be that is the solution – break up bigger states into smaller units.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:42 am
A very good article . I am posting A paragraph from this article below.
”In the Dalit quarter of Kallupuruwa in Rae Bareli, a woman, a mother of two, is severely indignant when asked if she can feed her children properly. “Of course, we feed them, and feed them very well,” she says, “the problem is, we are not left with enough money to send them to a really good English medium school as the fee there is Rs 300 per child. We send them to the one with 120-rupee fee.” And what about government schools? Urmila smiles that smile of vicious disdain, as if to say, you send your children to government schools. Leave mine to me.”
How I wish that If our politicians had paid proper attention to government schools than
a grandmother would not have been toiling to earn Rs.200 a day to send her grandchildren to a good school.
Overall I was happy to read the article that education in villages is being given proper
importance. We can expect bright future of our country.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Gopi and Mohan
1) Among the present journalists, Shekhar Gupta is the one I admire the most most. There used to be others like him in the days gone by. He is a one of a kind.
2) Coming to the subject matter
The lesser top heavy governance we have the better – just empower the panchayats, the talukas and the municipalities (you may hate Mani Shankat Aiyar – but he is one of the strongest advocates of empowering the panchayati raj system) and see the magic. We will not need the type of subsidies and reservations we have today.
3) Take the case of Bombay. At one point in time all municipality schools were Marathi (and also in some other Indian languages) medium. With falling enrollment especially in the last 10 to 15 years (vegetable vendors, sweepers, etc all wanting their children to have ‘English/Angrezi’ education), the authorities decided to convert them to English medium schools – the process is on, perhaps it will take another few years for it to complete and still more time for them to achieve high standards. Mind you in spite of the presence of parochial elements like the Shiv Sena – Marathi this, Marathi that, blah, blah, blah. and it has been controlling the municipality for the last 17 years. What I am trying to say, the ground realities makes people and the authorities act pragmatically. Imagine the problems, if this decision to change the medium of instruction were to be made in New Delhi, probably no decision for years.
Whether to have English medium schools at the cost of Indian language medium schools is a good thing or bad can be debated separately.
This is what Vir Sanghvi , a former Editor of HT says about Vijay Mallya and Kingfisher.
“So, here’s what will happen. Vijay Mallya will tap his political contacts. He will claim that jobs are at stake. He will threaten that banks will lose their money if Kingfisher closes down. At first, the government will attempt to give the impression that it is listening to public anger at Mallya’s audacity at asking for a handout. But eventually, when the anger dies down, it will do a deal. Kingfisher will get a moratorium on its income-tax dues. Banks will advance Mallya money. And all kinds of sops will be offered to keep Kingfisher in the air.”
Now who possibly could that contact be … someone from the party from Karnataka…..or the son-in law …or has he cultivated someone from UP. Difficult to say …after all the amount involved shall be huge…. of course to be shared between more than one.
I hope that KF is not bailed out by the govt. The job loss is negligible, many could easily be absorbed by the burgeoning hospitality industry.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:36 am
I think KF shall finally be bailed out .Things shall move slowly but surely and somewhat the way Sanghvi has written. Corporate frauds and corrupt corporate-politician nexus is one of the biggest challenges which the country faces. The promoters never lose… he gains … the politician gains… and it is only the country which loses. somewhat like that Shahrukh Khan- Rani Mukerjee starrer “Chalte Chalte” ,( if Iam getting the name right)
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:48 am
I am holding 1000 shares of Kingfisher airlines. Please think about poor shareholders
Of the company.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Mohan ..I think u should not worry ..for the reason I have already stated. You should worry if you also have shares of SBI or other PSU banks who eventually join the bail-out. Did you note how SBI tanked when the news first came out day before
Folks, This is closest to the truth, Please Note the Last Para
ormer President Giani Zail Singh’s role during his tenure as Punjab chief minister has been criticised as also that of Sanjay Gandhi for the Punjab crisis of the 80s in a book on Congress.
The fifth volume of the series ‘A Centenary History of the Indian National Congress’ makes critical observations on “dirty politics” in the name of religion in Punjab that it concluded was one of the factors for terrorism and the Khalistan agitation in Punjab.
“Dirty politics and the use of religion for political ends clearly boomeranged on the Akali and Congress leadership with disastrous consequences for the Sikh community and the Indian state” the book says commenting on the situation in the aftermath of the Operation Blue Star.
Noting that Congress emerged as the single largest party in the state assembly in the 1972 elections and formed a government headed by Zail Singh, the book says, “by introducing a religious tone to Punjab politics, Giani succeeded to a great extent in weakening the Akalis. But the result–growing communalisation of provincial politics–was disastrous.”
The book notes that Zail Singh organised one of the biggest religious processions “in order to secure Sikh votes for Congress”.
In the chapter “Indira Gandhi: An Overview” the book says that Zail Singh, who was Congress chief minister of Punjab in the 1970s – and first home minister in Indira’s 1980 cabinet and later still the country’s President – had “unwisely” but ostensibly “tried to steal Akalis’s clothes” by pandering heavily to religious sentiments of Sikhs.”
“Zail Singh, in complete collaboration with Sanjay, picked up a relatively obscure young and fundamentalist lay preacher named Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale with a view to building him up as a rival to the Akali leadership.
“It is inconceivable that they could have done so without Indira Gandhi’s consent. Sanjay and Zail Singh believed that by advocating extremist causes, the young preacher could embarrass the Akali Dal. Precisely the reverse happened. Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale originally planted by Giani Zail Singh to weaken the Akalis, had outgrown his shoes,” the book said.
Congress has, however, distanced itself from the views expressed in the book, saying there is no official book about the party’s history.
LESSON FOR BJP
You cannot keep a snake (RSS/Bajrand(intended) Dal, the holy trinity of scum and bums Singhal, Katiyar , Tagodia) and feed milk with the expectation it will remain your pet, IT WILL NOT , IT WILL BITE THE SAME HAND THAT FED THE MILK
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:28 am
Now that you have quoted the COngress centenary history, can you tell me how it is different ffropm what I said?
If you dig in deep, you will get figures of 25000 or more dead becasue of the terror unleashed by petty politicking and communal policies of the COngress.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:32 am
100% agree with the analysis as well as the conclusion.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:37 am
Sanjay Gandhi can be faulted with many things (emergency being the worst), but he did not have any role in the contribution/responses to Punjab insurgency. Plus he died at a very young age of 33, in 1980.
However, Shrimathi Indira Priyadarshini Gandhi was heavily involved, Bhindrawale was her creation, and she paid the ultimate price for her dealings.
The roots were sown long before, when the govt yielded to divide Punjab on linguistic (which sort of paralleled religion) terms in 1966 into Punjab (Punjabi language) and Haryana (Hindi language).
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:44 am
Vijay was saying the same thing.
~~~ PUNJAB WAS ONE FIRE WHICH CONGRESS LIT– but lets’ talk about others~
A few more history lessons for Manohar and Co.
The petty regional and communal politics the COngress played needs to be remembered today becasue I fear they are going to do the same in order to create a Muslim vote bank.
BY CREATING A FALSE SENSE OF GRIEVIENCE THAT THERE IS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MUSLIMS AND THEY ARE BEING FALSELY IMPLICATED IN TERROR ATTACKS LIKE BATLA HOUSE OR 26/11.
The right way is to tell the truth and then get the community get over it and help them out. Through education, scholorships and guidance and not by segregation.
Anyway here are some more blatant, 100% truths which we all need to remember
a) Faced with a strong CPM, the Congress created and supported the Gorkhaland movement of Subhash Ghising. Buta Singh, the home Minister was the architect. Rajiv Gandhi… made some damning statements then.
b) When the Congress Andhra government was humiliated, NT Rama Rao lead a poppular movement which was sought to be called separtist as the name of his party was Telugu Desam. Thank God the endeavour failed
c) Fires in Kashmir were lit up by trying to prop up Farooq’s brother in Law G MShah. This spiralled and ended up in the current Kashmir problem.
ANYBODY FOR DETAILED DISCUSSIONS ON THESE????
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
this is all truth
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Thank you for the history lessons. I hope you will continue with the lessons coming up to present day. I have so much to learn. Are you game?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Absolutely… let us for a start discuss the UP elections where dunces have tried to inculcate a false gievience in Muslims that a pan India force is trying to discriminate against you and you should think along communal lines.
Similar ot what was done in Punjab thirty years back
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
No. You are taking a quantum leap. We have to go step by step, year by year and that is how history is taught and learnt. For example, there is 1992 and then …..
Otherwise forget it.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
List of Temples Destroyed by the Islamic Terrorists
I WANT MR MANOHAR TO ALSO DISCUSS THE DESTRUCTION OF FOLLOWING TEMPLES IN kashmir. List is with home Ministry. Please ji sir.. can you have some opinion on this?
The following is based on a report published in Nav Bharat Times (Feb. 18, 93) New Delhi, the Hindi Daily of the Times of India Group of papers.
According to a report from Home Ministry official, 36 temples were the butt of communal violence In 1986, 8 in 1988, 12 in 1989, 8 in 1990, 5 in 1991, and 24 in 1992. The report carries the names of the temples, their addresses, the mode of attack, date and the extent of damage done. The following is the 1ist of the temples hit by communal violence in J&K on the basis of Home Ministry Report.
SRINAGAR, FEBRUARY 20-21
1. Ganpatyar temple, Srinagar – Stoned – Window panes broken.
2. Bhairav temple, Maisuma – Stoned – minor damage
3. Temple in front of Gurudwara at Amiradadal – ransacked – no damage
to the building.
4. Shiv temple, Jawaharnagar – attempted arson – minor damage to a window,
5. Bhairav Mandir, Karan Nagar – attempted arson – Carpet burned, no
damage to the building.
6, Shiv temple near secretariat – attempted arson – minor damage.
7. Shiv Mandir, Chota Bazar-60-70 rioter tried to attack the temple; police
fired four rounds in the air – no damage,
8. Narayan Math Mandir in Tulsi Bagh – attempted arson and stoning –
minor damage to windowpanes and door.
ANANTNAG DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 20 -21
9. Gautam nag mandlr at Sarnal – set on fire – heavy damage; 3 out of four
10. Shivalay Mandir, Nai Basti – heavy stoning, attempt to destroy and
ransack – damage worth Rs. 10,000.
11. Temple at Wanpoh on Khanabal-Qazigund Road – set on fire- extent of
damage not known.
12. Another temple at Vanpoh – set on fire – extent of the damage not known.
13. Temple at Aishmuqam – attempt at ransacking – one idol damaged.
14. Temple at Dhanbogund, Kulgam – set on fire – extent of damage not known.
15. Navgam temple, Shangas – Heavy stoning – extent of damage not known.
16. Achhabal temple near Navgam – Heavy stoning – extent of damage not known.
17-20. Four temples in Lokbhavan village of Thana Qazigund – attempted
21. Harish Chandra Seva Mandir, Beejbehara – ransacking – idols destroyed.
22. Devi Mandir, village Karebal Beejbehara – ransacking – Idols damaged.
23. Shivalay Mandir, Janglat Mandi, Anantnag town – ransacking – extent
of damage not known.
24. Temple of Dyalgam – attempt at ransacking – extent of damage not known.
25. Temple at Fatehpura village, Qazigund Tehsil – set on fire – extent of
damage not known.
26. Temple at village Siligam, Thana Aishmuqam – attempt at ransacking.
PULWAMA DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 20-21
27. Shiv Mandir at village Koil, Thana Pulwama – attempted arson.
28. Temple at village Trisal, Thana Pulwama -AttPmpted ransacking –
idols, microphone taken away; compoundwall of the adjacent cremation ground broken.
BARAMULLA DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 20-21
29. Kali Mandir in Jamla Kadal Mohalla, Sopore – attempted arson, local
people foiled the attempt – no damage.
30. Fatapura temple, Sopore – stoning – minor damage.
ANANTNAG DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 24-25
31.Chandi Puiarl temple, VYosu Thana Qazigund) – Arson – damage worth Rs. 20,000.
BADGAM DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 24-25
32. Sharda Devi temple, Yalkot (Thana 8adgam) – attempt to arson – one part burnt.
33.Shiv Temple, Sanghampura – (Thana Biru) – attempt to arson – verandah damaged in arson.
34. Shiv Mandir, Magam (Thana Vodura) – attempt to arson – minor damage.
BARAMULA DISTRICT, FEBRUARY 24-25
35. Temple in Bandipore – arsoned – minor damage.
36. Temple in Bandipore – arsoned – minor damage.
SRINAGAR DISTRICT, AUGUST 15
1. Ram Mandir, Maharajganj, Srinagar – attempt to arson – minor damage.
2. Shiv Mandir, Sarafkadal, Srinagar – stoned – minor damage.
BARAMULLA DISTRICT, AUGUST 18
3. Shiv Mandir, Bandipur – arsoned – Heavy damage.
4. Shri Raghunath Mandir, Barmulla – explosion in Mandir – minor damage.
PULWAMA DISTRICT, AUGUST 21
5. Shiv temple, Shopian – Fully destroyed; heavy damage.
6 . Local tempIe in Tral – Arsoned – Heavy damage.
ANANTAG DISTRICT, AUGUST 19
7. Devi Mandir, Anantnag – arsoned – minor damage.
DODA DISTRICT, OCT0BER 27
8. Basaknag mandir, Bhadrawah – arsoned – minor damage.
SRINAGAR DISTRICT (MARCH 24 TO NOV. 2)
1. Shri Ram mandir’s Hall, Barbarshah Srinagar – explosion – minor damage.
2. Shiv Mandir Chota Bazar, Srinagar, Fully damaged.
3. Shri Raghunath Mandir, Srinagar – attempt to arson – minor damaqe.
4. Building of Ramkrishna Ashram, Chota Bazar, Srinagar-arsoned-minor damage.
PULWAMA DISTRICT, OCTOBER 3
5. Suchcha Nath Mandir, Shopian – arsoned – heavy damage.
BADGAM DISTRICT, OCTOBER 21
6. Shri Ram Mandir, Badgam – destroyed; idols looted – heavy damage.
7. Rama Mandir, Udhampur – heavy damage.
8. Supernag Temple – Idols looted and temple burnt.
9. Siv Mandir Kiratwar – explosion on 2nd Nov. – minor damage.
10. Buichhal Mandir – explosion on 10th Nov. – heavy damage.
11. Temple in Kulharad village – arsoned on 12th Nov. – heavy damage.
12 Temple in Bharat village – arsoned on 12th Nov. – heavy damage.
1. Arya Samaj Mandir and School, Srinagar – explosion an 10th Feb. Minor damage
2. Shri Raghunath Mandir, Srinagar – attempted arson on 24th Feb., minor damage.
3. Arya Samaj Mandir and School Wazir Bagh, Srinagar – explosion on 21st July – heavy damage.
4. Shri Ram Mandir, Babarshah Srinagar – Conference Hall attacked with rocket on 2nd Sept . – minor damage .
5. Shitalnath Mandir, Srinagar – arsoned on 18th Nov. – heavy damage.
6. Lakshmi Mandir, Bijbehara – arsoned on 4th August – Heavy damage.
7. Sharda Mandir, Kalusa, 8andipur-arsoned on 7th Nov.- Heavy damage.
8. Handura Mandir – Precincts desecrated and idols stolen on 13th Nov. –
heavy loss in the form of disappearance of idols.
1. Nagbal Mandir, Anantnag – Explosion – Minor damage
2-3. Shri Raghunath Mandir, Anantnag – Explosion, Grenade thrown – minor damage
SRINAGAR DISTRICT, APRIL 13
4-5. Shri Raghunath Mandir, Srinagar – seven houses of Hindus and two temples arsoned – minor damage.
All arsoned; and minor damages:
1. Raghunath Mandir, Karafali Mohalla, Srinagar – 8 May.
2. Anantnag – 7 December
3. Srinagar – 7 December
4. Kulgam, Anantnag – 7-8 December.
5. Shiv Mandir, Sherpore Kund – 7-8 December.
6. Temple at Karichhama – Tang Marg, Baramulla – 7-8 December.
7. Temple in Baramulla on Kungar Tang Road – 7-8 December.
8. Shri Vishnu Temple, on the Bank of River Jhelum 7-8 December.
9. Kuvi Utraso Temple Anantnag – 7-8 December.
10. Temple of Chitergund, Anantnag – 7-8 December.
11. Temple of Bana Mohalla, Srinagar -7-8 December.
12. Karfali Mohalla, Srinagar -7-8 December
13. Samshan Bhoomi Temple, Karannagar, Srinagar – 7-8 December
14. Narsingh Bagh – Shadipur Temple, Ganderbal, Srinagar – 7-8 December.
15. Nandkishore Temple, Sumbal, Baramulla – 7-8 December.
16. Temple of Pahalgam, Anantnag – 7-8 December.
17-22. Verinag, Anantnag – 8 December.
23. Temple in Tragaon, Kupwara -9 December
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
must have ben the act of rss bjp goons to create situation condusive to their election politics.muslims dont want to hurt others.
it is like game of bomb planting.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Next time you wish to discuss something else start a new thread. What you have been doing here today is attempting to dodge the issues in question.
Aftr the punchng incident, Saif to be demoted from “Nawab of Pataudi” to “Sir-Punch of Pataudi”
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:49 am
Vijay very fantastic! You have spoke the 100% truth. Now all of them will just run away shouting Modi Modi Rape rape
these ashnazis are not atheist,they are zoinists.must have been killed.judgement was right.nothing special.in muslim countries those who insult the gods of other religion will be hang.this is not my victory this is victory of godly forces over the forces of shaitan.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Why not the all powerful god kill all the followers of shaitans and make this world a peaceful place for ever ?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Brilliant! As good as the one SHenoy posted!! Will keep him occupied for smoe time… I HOPE !
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
indian films mein shaitan bad mein mara jata hai.pahlee heet hamesha villain ki hote hai.many civilizations have come and gone.this is cycle.
AshishC Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
God needs help with the actual heavy lifting…
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Your real name is Engirch Afzal Kasab… right?
Congress has done several nbad things, they will continue to do bad things, even anti national at times. Actually there is nothing “national” in Indian National Congress any more.
But BJP may only be marginally better than them. They could have and should have done much more to position as a clear alternative. They are equally corrupt, the instances may be fewer because they did not ahve a bigger opportunity to steal and manipulate like Congress had/has.
A revival is needed in India. I m sure with people like you, Pervez, Iswar, Shoeb etc it will happen. We are counting on you
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
Thank you for having this much faith in me!
I guess I am already too big for my boots. Three sizes bigger would trip me!
Frankly one thing which differentiates the two parties is the slavery to a dynasty concept. With the Congress at the helm, all regional parties too become dynasties.
This is detrimental to the functioning of a democracy.
Further on dynasties end up being repositeries of huge illegal incomes and they hold the purse strings of the partys they belong to. Huge corruption starts. My opinon is that BJP is only about 20% of the COngress in corruption as all Mps exist not becasue of dynasties but because of popularity.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Dynasty politics result from he current system of party nominations..In this system a party leader – CM, Ministers etc) favour their relatives.
Leaders like Modi, Jayalalitha etc who do not have spouse/children are the only ones exempt from this behaviour. The leftists generally have been free of nepotism. None of the Marxist CMs of Kerala (and I guess West Bengal too) had their children “grow: in politics
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Having seen all from close quarters, the progeny of the Marxists and of the leaders in some other parties think it is better to do something else in life.
You are right. Engrich is elated to read this news.
Ashish mon ami
You are my touch-stone upon which I measure the extent to which an individual has sold his soul to gain foreign credibility.
Please could you award marks out of 10 to the following 3 academics on 4 listed aspects.
1. Aditya Mukherjee
2. Mridula Mukherjee
3. Sucheta Mahajan
b) Academic rigour
d) Left leaning bias.
It will help me to calibrate my interpretation of some of their writings.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Before you say Rape and rape one more time, please see list of 100 temples destroyed by Pakisani Islamic fundu in Kashmir and jammu. List is from Times of India in 1992. After 1992 another 200 temple damage.
But you only say Modi Modi rape rape and then give boring lecture/
Prisoners get jobs in Gujarat.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Good. There have been similar stories around the country. Prisoners in Tihar jail are trained for various jobs and many companies come calling for recruitment. Will take some time to find the links.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
i hope u will have gut to say Team Anna leader Kiran Bedi got maximum change in Tihar jail and also got vipassana to cool mind along with yog and meditation.
Sje applied balm to criminal by training methods now world famous. Do you say yes or NO?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Apparently , you do not know my thought process. Not many have the nerve can call a spade a spade. I will unnerve you by asking questions on similar lines.
If someone has done something good, I salute that person. If this was the Kiran Bedi who initiated the process, then I salute her.
You are forgetting one little fact – Jaswant Singh (BJP) is the MP from Darjeeling and won with the help of the Gorkhaland activists. Now you can calibrate your thinking accordingly.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
He was not the guy who started the movement. he never helped them on the way which Buta and Rajiv did. He is in fact asking them NOT to make it a race (Gorkha) movemtn but instead a movement for developing the hilly areas of Bengal.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Yes, yes. BJP and its leaders can never be blamed for anything, after all they are all heaven-born. Gods do not make mistakes.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
I have given list of 100 temples destroy in Kashmir till 1992 by terrorists. After 1992 more number added. Why you are not discussing that?
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
give me and cofirm if they were built with official permission.modi had demolished 84 templs in ahmadabad only as they were built without official permission in gulf states i have seen many mosques demolished that way.
neverthless give the list.muslims never demolish temples.it is hindus who have demolished thousands in their cult war.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
You are fast learner. Must be having some very good minders, trainers and bandmasters. Instead of commenting what i have said, you rake another issue. That in English can be summed in one word – obfuscation and the RSS/BJP followers have a mastery over it. If you are unable to carry on the topic in question – discretion is the better of the valour.
Since you asked, if they indeed what you say is true – I condemn the people who did it and they should be brought to justice.
Once I repeat, I will not ask you questions that will be discomforting to answer – you see it requires nerve to call a spade a spade.
During Pandit Nehru’s time and for some time after his death, there were many strong leaders in other states too – for example, Dr. B C Roy (Bengal), Mohanlal Sukhadia (Rajasthan), S K Patil and others (Maharashtra), Kamaraj (Tamil Nadu) to name a few. You can add to the list. Then there came Indira Gandhi on the scene and as they say, the rest is history.
Folks you had read what a rightwing RSS brainwashed , BRAMHIN wrote taking snipes at engrich and zia. This is a classical case of ARDHYA SATYA
Same from the news item referred to
The text of the First Amendment could not be clearer. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof-” It does not say “unless somebody, especially a Muslim, is angered.” Indeed Judge Martin specifically decided to respect the establishment of a religion, in this case Islam.
That Judge Martin should be removed from the bench and severely sanctioned goes almost without saying. He clearly had no business hearing the case in the first place, since he seems to carry an emotional bias. He also needs to retake a constitutional law course. Otherwise, a real can of worms has been opened up, permitting violence against people exercising free speech
engrich Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
a real can of worms has been opened up, permitting violence against people exercising free speech
free speech does not allow u to hurt the feelings of others.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Nice little article by Ramchandraan on his work ,
Read on at :
Majhabi aur Siyaasati jhagdon mein logon ki jaan chali gayee hai – kaha mandir masjid jaise patthrile cheejon ke uppar aasu baha rahe ho.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
मंदिर और मस्जिद का झगड़ा मिटाया जाए
बीच में दोनों के एक महखाना बनाया जाय
Mine is a pint of London Pride
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
For a change I agree with you.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
अजनबी शहर के अजनबी रास्ते, मेरी तन्हाई पर मुस्कराते रहे
में बहुत दूर तक यूँही चलता रहा, तुम बहुत दूर तक याद आते रहे
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
this is especially for you:
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
WOW. Beautiful. I wish everybody would think like that.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
What is happening ?
I agreed with Ravi and now Ravi has complimented Shenoy. Are we changing
or just getting old ?
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
The शेर deserved a compliment, Shenoy ने सिर्फ दोहराया था.
I dont shoot or compliment the messangers.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Very nice comment now. But no comment when we hear Modi Moid Rape rape all the time. We see all fake tears for Babri Masjid which was bilt on shrine of Lord Ram.
But no comment on destruction of 300 temples of Jammu and Kshmir. Very convenient truth.
Please ask Monoharji and Raviji this advice as they always say Babri babri as if Babr is their brother.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Bang on target.
These are all tactics to divert discussions that discomforts them.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Promise that no fake tear on Babri majjid?
A doctor advised a heart patient : No drinking, no smoking and sleep only with
your wife to avoid excitement.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Must have been Dr Mishra
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
did he mean that wives are devoid of all excitement?
@Mahesh , Many many thanks for the link to Prof Ramachandran.It is simply mind blowing. Let there be more Mahesh Calcuttawalle , Mahesh delhiwale , and certainly Mahesh azamgarhwale and Mahesh Ayoddhawale , and lets get rid of the “inferiors” , the smug ones , the fools , the jokers and the frauds infesting this blog.
I had an animated exchange 2yrs ago with a certain well known blogger in gautam chikermane ’s blog on existential question. He apparently SEEKS ANSWER IN LIBERAL ARTS , ENGRICH DOES IN QUORAN , PANDIT MISHRA IN BHAGBAD GITA, I SEEK IN SCIENCE, here is the reason , a quote from the above article
We saw a patient recently who was a prominent dean of an engineering school and soon after he retired he came out and said he wants his left arm amputated above the elbow. Here’s a perfectly normal guy who has been living a normal life in society interacting with people. He’s never told anybody that he harbored this secret desire—intense desire—to have his arm amputated ever since early childhood, and he never came out and told people about it for fear that they might think he was crazy. He came to see us recently and we tried to figure out what was going on in his brain. And by the way, this disorder is not rare. There are websites devoted to it. About one-third of them go on to actually get it amputated. Not in this country because it’s not legal, but they go to Mexico or somewhere else and get it amputated.
If there were only people like Mahesh on this blog then you would be only reading about limbs amputations, brain cancer and may be hybrid crops
like BT Brinjal.
A request to you that please allow us inferiors , the smug ones, the fools
the jokers to stay on this blog which will keep you updated/entertained in
other non-serious issues like politics, religion, films, sports, history,
mythology and sometimes in physics and economy also.
I will highly appreciate if you will consider my request.
Thanks in advance.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
The inferiors are also interested in sex and jokes thereon!
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Are u sh—-ng or what? “Inferiors”??????
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
All those who cannot see the bigger picture , all those who are small ., petty , and all those who question the supremacy of science
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:39 pm
I think Engrich does not seek answers. he knows all answers and wants to change your answer sheet.
A little Indian Boy wanted Rs50, so he prayed for weeks, but nothing happened.
Finally he decided to write a letter to God requesting for Rs50.
When post office staff received a letter addressed to God, they forwarded it to the President.
..The President was so amused, she instructed her secretary to send the little boy Rs 20, as she thought Rs50 would be a lot of money for him.
The little boy was delighted with Rs20 and decided to write a thank you note to God.
‘Dear God, Thank you very much for sending the money. However,
I noticed that you have sent it through ‘Rashtrapati Bhavan’ (Through Government Building) and those corrupt donkeys ate my 30 rupees!
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
All those 30 rupees eventually added up to one crore which her son
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Robbing small Paul and pay Sonny darling.
Gopi, Mahesh, Ravi, Mohan, Shan, Ashish and others.
Something about our electoral process. A must read.
Keeping it free, fair
A big curiosity of these assembly elections has been the Election Commission’s insistence on videographing candidates on the campaign trail, in order to capture on record any evidence of them straying from mandated codes and illegitimately swaying the electoral outcome. Every election brings its update in the never-ending search for ways and means of ensuring a fair vote. So, what is a fair vote? It is interesting to answer the question by surveying the current ferment around the democratic world to somehow reform the system so that the truest will of the people can be distilled from an election. Take three proposals.
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
India does not need any more democracy or electoral reform , IT NEEDS FOOD AND A LOT OF IT , ALONG WITH EMPLOYMENT AND COMPULSORY LEGALLY BINDING EDUCATION FOR 6-16
An interesting perspective from an eminent historian on the decline/death of nations
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
@binoy Hegde , apparently when norman davies’s book EUROPE came out in 1995 0r so , historians pointed to 1205 FACTUAL ERRORS.
He has linear view of history. Just somebody should tell him Rome did vanish , but came back in another guise , also there was no internet and ipad ,
we are talking about such an incredibly different circumstances it si difficult to predict.
ALL THE REARRANGEMENT OF FUTURE STATES may be due to THE MUSLIM POPULATION IN EUROPE., marginalised , full of malcontent , cause for fissiparous tendency
NCW chief terms ’sexy’ as beautiful
NCW chairperson Mamta Sharma today said the word “sexy” should not be taken in a negative context as it means “beautiful and charming”, but her argument did not go down well with the BJP and women’s organisations which termed her remark as shocking and demoralising for women.
Maheshji and Manohar ji
If you feel destruction of 300 temples in jammu and Kashmir is not important I think maybe babur s like brother to you that you only want to talk about babri Masjid.
Why not have agreement that whenver Babri majjid is talked about we will alos discuss destruction of 300 temples in Jammu and Kashmir. Ok?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Sekhar gandotra , nobody is saying lets give bharat ratna to all those who destroyed temples in kashmir.Each and every scum should be brought to book.
But it is easier said than done.
On a separate note ,is it true , that in Kashmir, PANDITS used to charge money ti illiterate muslims if they wanted the newspaper read to them
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
Ok Thank u. I dont know of any pandit asking for money for reading paper.
however I know all sorts of justifications are given for killing of Pandits.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:25 am
no pundit was killed this is another lie.if anyone was killed go to court.courts are full of kashmiri pundits.u eill get justice.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:24 am
it is bullshit and lie.just to get recruit.if true why not go to court and lodge complaint.
You said whos permission did the HIndu temple authorites take in J&K before constructing and thus gave reason for the temple destruction.
I ask you whose written permission did Babur take before making temple over Shri Ram shrine?
Did Allah give him persmission or Param Pujya hanuman?
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
You won’t get any answers from Congressi-Jihadis..and rest of the people who are always busy trying to sound politically correct.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Thank you Rajeev ji for your support. You and Dr mishra have been kind enough to see what I try to say. Others may follow or not I dont know.
Maybe you are right that Congressi jihadi or being pollitically correct stops people from seeing plight of dispossesed in Kashmir
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:22 am
it is a historical nobody knew rama in ayodhya till 16th century.ramanand tiwari in 16th century started thid cult.then tulsidaas wrote ram katha.even he also never mentioned anywhere about destruction of any such temple.
ayodhya is not mentioned anywhere in hindu holy scriptures.it was a budhhdist
settlement occupied by shivbhakts afier buhdhdists were defeated and rxterminated on instruction adi shakarcharya,dwarf from kerala.
zoinists fabricated many lies before staeting this movement.now holy people of ayodhta has banned their entry in ayodhya.due to this evil movement ayodhya became stagnant,bussines finished and thousands of monkeys died of starvation.
they know that it muslim rulers under whom ayodhya became vibrant municipality from sleeping village.owners of hanuman gadhi are muslims even today.actually most of temples in ayodhya were built under muslim rule.aided and supported by them.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:47 am
In that case you have to agree that Kaaba was actually a pagan temple occupied by thug Mohammad.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:15 am
u are son of a ***** an idiot and mad.dont interact with me again.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:52 am
Please temper your language.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:51 am
I think u r brainwashed. You should start loving history and not giving fairy tales for your own mental satisfaction. You should realise that only one person in your chain will have Arab blood and rest willhave desi Bharatiya khoon. yet you are still slave to that one Arab person and not to 1999 in your bloodline with Indian desi khoon.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:22 am
ayodhya was budhdhist place not hindu.muslims built ayodhya u fascist destroyed this.all this drama is to get recruits.otherwise nobody will even look at u people.
people like are dividing india on the basis of religion rahul and sonia are uniting india in the name of nation.
u are a gang of evils.
I know of Aditya and Mridula Mukherjee but not of Sucheta Mahajan.
I was exposed to the early scholarly work of Mridula Mukherjee in while doing a course in Indian Economic and Political History- on Indian peasantry during the British era. I do not remember much of it. She certainly has a formidable reputation- probably more than her husband, Aditya.
I am not able to say whether the reputation is well deserved or not. The Sarkars of DU and the Mukherjees and Thapar of JNU along with Irfan Habib of AMU are forbidable leftist historians.
Some of the more recent utterings and papers of these historians have perhaps benefited from their stature but not enhanced them. I try never to ascribe motive.
Ravi Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
A good honest answer even if it is one that does not provide me with an instant assessment that I sought.
However, I have the booklet and I am almost half way through it. I am not sure if you would approve their analysis and conclusion. But that is a topic of discussion for another time.
Bipan Chandra’s Foreword is exemplary
AshishC Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:53 am
I missed Bipan Chandra; that’s another person we read as text book.
My favourite among all these persons is Irfan Habib. Very very good.
Now, I have a favour to ask of you.
Can you translate Shan’s post for me?
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:47 am
I think there was a good measure of affection in Shan’s post.
My reading of it is that he is surprised that in your academic achievements you have an eclectic mix of Engineering and Humanities.
However, more importantly, I did once say to you that I will catch up with those Historians that you had condemned as JNU types.
How am I doing?
AshishC Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:38 am
I am gratified (or not) for the affection. However, English as she is spoken/ written by civilized people of the world- note, not Indians living in India- frequently leaves me flummoxed.
I wish you would translate this sentence for me-
“The fact is you should not have in the electrical engineering malaki.”
Also, what is he saying when he asks: “Just out of interest how did you get in , i understand it is virtually impossible to get in, once you have decided on your subject at college .”
I mean is he hinting at reservations or nepotism for Bengali Brahmins?
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:53 am
I am used to being asked for translation of popular if somewhat complex pieces of poetry; it is a first when someone has asked me to translate a piece of prose.
However, this is what I understood what Dr Shan was trying to say.
He knows that you have worked in Marketing and are now working in the non-technical side of digital media. These career choices are often made by people whose personalities as well as qualifications are in Humanities. He therefore wonders as to what led you to INITIALLY chose Engineering and then switch to Humanities and was this switch easy to make.
I also believe that he is making an assumption that this cross-over took place during a single stint at the BHU. He may not be aware that you have different qualifications for different disciplines.
This is just my reading of his post. I may be way off target.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Lets make it easier for you
“The fact is you should not have BEEN(sorry for the omission)in the electrical engineering malaki(a slang used in UK meaning” not worthy”)
I am not hinting , I am just trying to update from where I had left , since I graduated.
In my days you cannot enroll after MBBS into a Bsc Chemistry , History or whatever.
Chorer Mon Bochkar Dikey(Sorry Ravi wont be able to help)
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:34 am
You are right to the extent that I am not worthy of all the institutions right since nursery school that have chosen to admit me, tolerate me and let me out in due course without major mishaps.
Not just engineering..
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Holy Maccaroni , Now you are in a self deprecating mode.
All I meant was in BROWN skinned societies , it is not what the child wants or is good at , but what parents and Atmiyo(relatives) perceive as having more social status and job guarantee.
This is totally opposite to GORA and SUPERIOR societies(Now translate this in Haryanvi to Vijay khanna)
Anonymous Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Snehashpada Ashish, Holy maccaroni, BE in Electrical Engineering , to neutralise the mirch , you needed the ambol(chutney for non bengalee bloggers). The fact is you should not have in the electrical engineering malaki.
For me to leave surgery willbe seen as engrich embracing hinduism .
to be honest life would be so much simpler , mind so much lighter , longivity so much longer , but yet as one of my classmates said “Surgery chartey parbi”(Can you quit surgery ).
Just out of interest how did you get in , i understand it is virtually impossible to get in, once you have decided on your subject at college .
This mridula mukherjee is a very very fat lady , we see in NDTV.
She hasn’t spoken anything in NDTV toimpress me.
To me NIRAD CHOUDHURI should be your guiding light.
Extreeme right wing , thorough and through CONGRESS HATER
Soulmates of BJP , he had tried in vain to exhort bengalees to realise their folly and cast their lot with ARYAVARTA(read BJP)
He is only one who can write AMI KENO SAMRAJYOBADI(why i am an imperialist).
Read all his writings in bengali or english , one may not agree but one cannot ignore
Marvelous debating skills of Congress..Please watch Renuka Chowdhary talk..This is how Congressis debate here-
AshishC Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:42 am
Everytime Renuka opens her mouth, she loses Congress a few votes. She is my favourite
I wish Congress could clone her quickly across all TV channels, Hindi and regional as well. She is sorely needed.
On the tragedy of Gujrat, a panel disc. I Disliked strongly Teesta Setalwad’s aggressiveness in the beginning. BJP spokeswomen- I think her name was Mrs Sitaraman came out very balanced but the calmest was Ashok Malik a senior journalist.
Sanjiv Bhatt the IPS officer was there, dont know what to make of him
Dr Mishra Reply:February 25th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Teesta again, her former employee Mr Khan damning her
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:12 am
Interview with Teesta Setalvad
listen this on u tube
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Hope you have watched this video before posting. There is hardly any revealation.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:11 am
dr saheb if she is trying to the victims of gurat riots.is she doing something wrong.why u are not condemning somebody who is condemned by various courts on many occasions for his partialities and cruelities.
Mr. Shekahr Gandotra
You wrote/posted the following in various threads
1) “Maheshji and Manohar ji
If you feel destruction of 300 temples in jammu and Kashmir is not important I think maybe babur s like brother to you that you only want to talk about babri Masjid”.
I do not give a damn as what you think.
2) “Promise that no fake tear on Babri majjid”?
Who do you think you are to try and extract a promise?
3) ” i hope u will have gut to say Team Anna leader Kiran Bedi got maximum change in Tihar jail and also got vipassana to cool mind along with yog and meditation”.
Guts!. Check out with many of your soul-mates, whether they know (actually don’t) guts are.
4) “Manohar ji
I have given list of 100 temples destroy in Kashmir till 1992 by terrorists. After 1992 more number added. Why you are not discussing that”?
First, you tried to dodge the issue in the particular thread. Secondly. nobody asks others as to why someone does or does not discuss any topic.
5) You also kept on insisting in other threads to discuss the destruction of temples in some threads too.
I gave a reply in one thread, still you kept on harping on it.
I will not be interacting with you again and you may draw any conclusions you like, I don not give hoot. You won’t be missing anything, there are enough ’saathidaars’ here for you. Have nice stay here.
Delhi: Anna Hazare to receive Rs 25 lakh award for rural development
Social activist Anna Hazare will receive an award for his contribution to rural development, at a function in Delhi on Thursday. Delhi’s Lt Governor’s Tejinder Khanna will present Anna with Rs 25 lakh prize and a citation.
IMO, he should have concentrated on rural development and not …………
The world is now a plateau
Samuel J. Palmisano – chairman of IBM
As everyone knows, the world has been “flattening” for the past three decades. This has opened the door for dozens of nations and billions of people to enter the global economy. What many do not realise is that this era is coming to an end.
Toilet humour has acquired a degree of respect in Ratanpur, a tiny village of five tribal-dominated clusters in Madhya Pradesh’s Betul district. But it took a gutsy, newly-wed woman to walk out of her husband’s home last year for things to come to this pass.
When Anita Narre left her in-laws’ home in May last year because it had no toilet, Zitudhana, a cluster of 175-odd houses, in the village, was shocked. Defecation in the open was a norm even among those who own big houses and tractors, so the new bride’s defiance made news in the community. But Anita was steadfast in her demand. If her husband Shivram wanted her back, he had to build a toilet for her. “I did not do that to become famous. I did what I felt strongly about,’’ she says. The 24-year-old returned eight days later after Shivram, who was then a daily wage labourer and now a temporary teacher at a government school (where he teaches environmental sciences), constructed a toilet in their house with the gram panchayat’s help.
CONGRESS PARTY’S BALLADEER CALLS SONIA GANDHI A FIRANGI
Not surprisingly then, as Sonia Gandhi arrives to address a reasonable-sized rally on a burnishing afternoon, the crowd-warmer is reciting the most familiar lines from that ballad: “Boodhe Bharat mein bhi aayi phir se nayi jawani thi… Chamak uthi sun sattavan mein woh talwar purani thi (Tired, ageing India had risen with youthful rejuvenation, the rusted sword of the old was gleaming again in 1857)”; and then he carries on, utterly unselfconsciously, “door phirangi ko karne kei, sab ne man mein thani thi (everybody was determined now to throw out the firangi, the foreigner).” Exactly at that moment Sonia Gandhi ascends the stage to the chants of “Zindabad”. This is India during an election, —–SHEKHAR GUPTA IN INDIAN EXPRESS.
He also opines:A straw poll tells you not a single Dalit is voting any way other than Mayawati’s. Muslims, if you generally added those spoken to by 20 of us, are divided seven to three between SP and Congress. The three who are breaking rank from the SP are all college students and are doing so because of the promise of reservations. Several of Mulayam’s old voters are returning to him”
Straight out of Sherlock Holmes adventure.
Murder in a farmhouse
Accompanied by three friends, Gill reached Golf Links on Hambran Road late at night. He knew his son often visited a farmhouse, owned by one Sanjay Agnihotri, in this neighbourhood. At 2 a.m. on the intervening night of February 1 and 2, he entered the farmhouse and found his son’s body lying in a pool of blood.
“I saw him where he was crucified,” he says. In the FIR lodged in the Haibowal Police Station, Gill says he also saw the body of a woman lying inside the bathroom. It was not before late evening on February 2 that the body was identified as that of Monica Kapila. Both Balraj and Monica had been bludgeoned and stabbed to death.
Manohar, Shekhar is from Jammu and is deeply disturbed about the ethnic cleansing of hindus from Kashmir and disturbing changes in demographics there. It is a story all of India wants to convieniently forget
Please respect his anguish, never mind his lack of debating skills or blog etiqutte
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:33 am
To certain extent I agree with you. Ever since he came here (on and off) he has been acting the same.
I am willing to discuss any topic with him, however, even before I could respond, he started shooting the messenger. My response below indicates, why I was upset with him – casting aspersions, demanding this or that, etc.
Let us wait and see how he conducts himself.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Thank you sir. We people from small town may not match English language of big town and bada shaher. However I think we should remember that topic is more important than English.
I did not want to caste any personal bias etc. I respect all but only feel upset that nobody respect sentiment fo Hindu being hurt in J&K. My sorry again in case you felt bad
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:42 am
Thank you doctor sahib. Doctors always apply balm on wounds. Ifeel bad if nobody think of all holy shrines destroy in J&K by jehadi element.
It is fashionable to shed crocdile tear over Babri majjid, even though there was temple of ShriRam below which was of importance. However why keep saying masjid masjid when temples are being damaged allyear in J&K
Is Micro Finance running amok ?
Read on more at :
Notice the un-sustainable “loan drive” SKS undertook.
Interestingly, SKS happpens to be very large name in Micro Finance Industry in South India and very very large in the state of AP.
This brings me a vague thought on rural finance.
Let us say if centre and states together were to run a massive deficit and pump in money in rural India , essentially targetting the lower strata engaged in agriculture (perhaps using markers as simple as , say, any family with land less than 7 acres being eligible). Further , all inputs required for the agriculture are made freely available to this targetted group. Next. the losses are absorbed using mechanisms such as mandatory participation crop insurance.
Further ahead, water harvesting and local small community driven irrigation schemes are incentivised.
But then , alas ….. (sigh)….
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 9:30 am
Good and very very relevant topic to discuss.
IMO, no need to run up a huge deficit. A very big chunk of the bureaucracy from the Minister downwards needs to abolished at the centre and in the states. They do no constructive work, it is all paper pushing, provide employment for the sake of it and worse block development and progress. .
Empower municipalities, talukas, panchayats and districts to decide, supervise, fund (a chunk of the revenue needs to passed onto them) and execute development projects in their own areas. They would know better as to what is required in their own backyard, being at the ground level. One size does not fit all. To begin with, their tasks would be ensure water security (the most important), education and health. Then watch the transformations the people bring in themselves. There will be no need for subsidies and reservations as we know them.
Should I also sigh?
Mystery of Mr Modi
But so far, the BJP does not seem to be looking around for a desi version of Saatchi and Saatchi to market Modi. In fact, it seems loath to even project him as a future national leader barring the occasional kite-flying by the gaffe-prone Nitin Gadkari. The party which prides itself on having the smarts, which projects itself as one in which merit not dynasty counts, should surely have begun grooming Modi long ago. It should have enlisted a bevy of advisers from its own ranks and outside, and there are enough hangers-on, to have given him an image makeover many times over.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Ab bahut ho gaya Modi Modi. Let us discuss the destruction of 300 temples which I have raised. I think there is deliberate plot not to talk about it.. in the same manner as there was to call Auranzeb secular and jaziya as sales tax so that history starrts looking pretty.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 9:17 am
I never shy away from discussing difficult issues.
Your abusive behaviour towards me personally and childish behaviour in general has led me to ignore you.
In my own time I will discuss the issue of Kashmir, Ethnic Cleansing and Destruction of temples will be included in it.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 9:38 am
That is why I am little upset with you. You do not decide who discusses what. You are free to join in or side-step. You may post what you think needs to be discussed and then leave it to others.
In this particular case here, Modi is being discussed in all the seriousness and there is no bad-mouthing You do not like to discuss him, don’t.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:55 am
It is not as simple as the author makes out to be.
1. There are other contenders from within the BJP, who are not at all enthusiastic as his supporters are. All they do is to praise him to the skies and thats about it. Otherwise, he would have been brought to the national stage earlier. Add to that, the allies are reluctant to do with business with him at the helm. The third point is that his track record as a campaigner during 2009 elections was nothing to write home about, in fact it went against the BJP in constituencies where he campaigned.
It is a still long way ahead for him to be accepted nationally and that the BJP does not have presence in many states makes the task even more difficult. Unless, there is a satisfactory closure (political, legal and social) to 2002, it is going to very tough for him.
2. He is a one man show and not a team player. One cannot hope to run the central government all by oneself and more so in the age of coalition governments. This fact was acknowledged by no less than Mohan Bhagwat.
IMO, the BJP should project Vasundhara Raje Scindia as the PM candidate and now they should put in the works required in place and act now.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 9:19 am
However, I hear closure is a Western Concept.
a small pea of affection buried under heaps of blah, blah and more blah.
Kashmir, Ethnic Cleansing & Destruction of Temples
Kashmir is a theatre where complex political games are being played and have been for a while.
My family hails from Sialkot, and our family Pandit was a Kashmiri Pandit. A tall man with very fair skin and he was a bit hard of hearing. He would visit our house every winter and after exchanging the news of our much scattered large family, he would go away with 10 saers of Rice and Rs 101. I am talking about 50s and 60s. The point of adding this personal detail is because even in those days I heard from him stories of Ethnic Cleansing, Harassment, etc. So these political manoeuvrings pre-date the current issue of radicalisation and aggression of Islam.
Pakistan, Kashmiri Muslims, Hindus and the RSS are all active in this theatre.
Radical Islam has also reached Kashmir from Saudi Arabia, both directly as well as via Pakistan.
Demographic balance between Muslims and Hindus in Kashmir also plays a role.
When one takes all of the above and other factors into account then the picture that emerges is very very murky. In these muddy waters it becomes difficult to identify who is doing what to whom.
Many of the incidents are sponsored by the Pakistan Army and it heavily relies on LeT to execute its Kashmir tactics. In fact LeT was established by the Pakistan Army for this purpose only. It subsequently has expanded its agenda as it diversified its sources of finance.
There are also political divisions among Kashmiri Muslim population (loyalists and separatists) and several of the violent incidents are directly related to this schism.
Indian Army has a large presence there, mainly to check Pakistan sponsored activity. Since it is a guerrilla war, many unintentional incidents and retaliations can be attributed to the Indian Forces.
BJP and the Hindu Right has taken upon itself to champion the cause of Hindus in Kashmir, and a number of incidents can be attributed to their activities.
In my opinion A L L of the above contribute to the changing Ethnic balance, and damaging of Hindu Temples.
A massive civil unrest is seen as an essential gateway beyond which lies, either the Ethnically Pure Kashmir or the reassertion of Indian Hegemony and Hindu Pride. I believe that all parties are indulging in political shenanigans in the hope of kindling a Civil War.
Hindu temples are targeted because they are more likely to elicit a strong emotional response which can then be amplified into a full Civil War. The fact that one has not happened so far is because the ordinary people of Kashmir have become wise to such political theatrics. I would not be surprised if it is N O T possible to attribute ALL of these attacks on Hindu Temples to Muslims alone.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:45 am
Are you aware the hindu in Kashmir belongs to only one caste , the Bramhins.My mami is a kashmiri.Why this unique anomaly, nowhere to be found in india. Would Sekhar throw some light.
One should keep in mind kashmir wasn’t like this always.
After bhutto was hanged , THERE WAS DEMONSTRATION IN KASHMIR TO DEMAND PAK OCCUPIED KASHMIR BE MERGED WITH INDIAN KASHMIR
Radical islam definitely played its role , islam like sikhism being a CONGREGATIONAL religion , it is easy to poison the minds in a short time by the mullahs on Friday.
Also Muslims generally are bone poor in kashmir , all Pandits were RICH/middleclass.
I think Jagmohan screwed it big time , HE SIMPLY OVERREACTED
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:16 am
That’s an interesting observations. In kashmiri Hindu society, there is no barber or matter of fact nobody other than pundits. So it had be the muslims who would do all dirty jobs for KP’s !
Forget about Shekhar, genuine Kashmiri Pundits even avoid answering that.But senior KP’s admit muslims being maltreated and looked down upon by Pundits for ages.
Jagmohan did not over react. He was very much part of a silly plan to put pressure and draw attention of the International community about the plight of KP’s through mass exodus. It was plain silly. Many regret that now.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:41 am
This is complete lies and yoour own bad dreams. Problem started when GM Shah was put to disturb Abdulla givernment by Congress. Then Pakistan start militacy with training camp after Punjab agiitation fail.
If you beleive this barber theory so much, then maybe you should be scared of your own barber next time of haircut. He may think Sanjay Dhawan does not ask family members to become barbers so he is bad man and I must use razor on his neck…
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
My comments are based on the real interaction with many KP’s over the years. It’s not some passing rumour I am quoting.
I guess I need to request people interprete your 2nd paragraph and explain for easy understanding.
Don’t over react. I am not justifying terrorism in Kashmir or mal-treatment to KP’s.
It too happened in TN, Bihar, and UP. Just the players were different. Dalits and lower caste over-ran the upper caste.
I suggest you interact with few senior KP’s on the subject I touched upon.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
I am sure, like Mr.India, you don’t need hair cut.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:37 am
HIndus were rich? Not so rich as carpet exporter and house boat and tourism hotel owner. All were rich or poor , both Hindu and Muslim. Poorest were buddhist who were shepherd.
Tall story that Hindu was rich so he had to be killed is given for justifying killing. You are right that Muslim will gongreate and become mob easily becasue of bhakau bhashan by Maulvi. Many times close child firends become enemy becasue fo bhadkau bhashan.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Caste system mostly absent in Hindu Kashmir. Mostly people are Shaivites. Very convenient to be called Panda. but Panda do all sort of jobs from Grocer to teacher to maali to hawaldar. Being educated they got more government job.
Hindu kashmir was rich because of education not becasue they snatch anything from kashmiri muslim.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:43 am
For once you seem to be right.
According to dalit.org, which is the fountainhead of all engrich-uvacha, out of the 300 temples that Shakhar Gandotra mentions as destroyed, 251 were destroyed by Hindus themselves.
It is interesting to note that the remaining were destroyed by Taliban, who have nothing to do with Kashmiri Muslims.
This has also been confirmed by the late Shaikh Abdullah’s brother-in-law. All this information is also available on
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
the cry of the Hindu dies not get tears in this country. But babri majjid demolition give employment to many many people in blog, in books and in politics. It is becasue we are told not to cry as it will spoil atmosphere.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:56 am
I never had intention to abuse. Just poinitng out fact that 300 temples destroyed and national media or paty do not discuss this and keep crying Babri Babri all time.
It means that only people who cry and do agaitation like Babri Majjid lovers will get attention. Or only those people who say we will give vote if you bat for my majjid and religion.
In Kashmir there are many varieties of hindus. Not just Pandit alone. However caste system is mostly absent in hindus so there is confusion that all are pandas. That is good thing. There are Shaivites– all Kauls are shivites.
Kashmiri Hindu also have denominantion of Bhatta. But mostly there is little class stratification– which is good– so all claim to be Pandit. My father is grocer
I think it will be very bad in case we blame Mandir destruciton on BJP or RSS. Out here they are protectors when bomb blast happen. Soem times when terrorist comes with bomb, we need RSS protection in Jammu to become group to fight back.
The real problem is with kashmir Muslim brothers who forget Hindu brothers and join hand with Paksitan in name of International Islam.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
ravi saheb,in the presence of seven hundred thousand troops in valley,how muslims can drive pundits out of valley.can u awnser me.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
By making their life uncomfortable.
I have heard a similar story about you Bengalis. It says that educated dalits would ask for sexual favours whenever a fellow dalit asks for news to be read to her.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:24 am
Where did you hear it , from Devdasis . I have read about the pandits in newspaper and also I have heard on TV or read it , IT WAS SHEIKH ABDULLAH WHO TOLD THIS TO HIS GRANDSON
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 11:34 am
All sort of story is given to justify killoings and driving people house so their proprty is occupy by terrorist. You have to accept that most of Jammu amd Kashmir was Hindu till 100 years back. Ok, even if we accept ground reality now, even if we accept Hindu took money for reading paper (like fairy tale… very few times must have happened) so it does not eman kill and drive out fo house and state.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Teacherr also take money for teaching ABCD in school. If some Hindu took money for reading money in panchayat why he is different from tutor or teacher?
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
have you forgotten fake Ravi’s most-repeated line “5000 rapes of dalit women by high casted Hindus”?
u eat them alive.
@ Ravi, Murr Jaawaan Gurd kha ke
or Tomar Tulana sudho Tumi (now for this one ask ashish to return your favour)
PS. I have read Irfan Habib’s Akbar and his india.The measure of my contentment with the book lies with the fact , that I quickly after finishing the book ,packaged and gave it as a present to a pakistani doctor in St Hellier Hospital Carshalton surrey(he had swapped some duties with me)
In the same book Habib writes that his theory about the cause of decline of Mughal empire have been shot down .He ascribes agarian revenue system as the cause .
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:35 am
Not sure what it means in totality but in bits it means
Your Comparison Suits Yourself = What?
AshishC Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
You are your only comparison
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Not sure how to take it.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:20 pm
This is bengalee rendition of the word “incomparable”
how now you understand
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Many thanks. You are unique as well.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:43 am
prof irfan habib is one of most learned historian of india.he is expert in economic history of india.he may be right in his assesment of fall of moghul empire.corruption(like today)must have been the reason.empire was spending huge sum of money to fight sikh scavangers from north and maratha secessionist from west..
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Professor Sumit Sarkar says:”Indian Historiography, starting with D.D. Kosambi in the 1950s, is acknowledged the world over – wherever South Asian history is taught or studied – as quite on a par with or even superior to all that is produced abroad. And that is why Irfan Habib or Romila Thapar or R.S. Sharma are figures respected even in the most diehard anti-Communist American universities. They cannot be ignored if you are studying South Asian history.”
Even my wife liked it as I related it to her.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:32 am
When I told this to my wife, this is what she told me
” I was forced to accept what ever was available on first floor”
gopi balwinder bhai and mishrajee,
China far ahead of India in science, says PM.
and following is the comment of a gujrati ,
We cannot even compete with Malyasia or Thailand in high tech manufacturing!
Indians are good only in white collar office jobs – the programming jobs have replaced the old accounting / banking jobs. No Indian IT man ever thinks why the PC and the terminal in front of him is NOT manufactured in India.
Also he does not think why the low tech man bending the iron bar for the bridge is not using any gloves or shoes while handling extremely hazardous material. But the high tech man just drives his new Japaense or Korean car at snails speed along the traffic jam – a bicycle would have gone faster
hence please dont call me ziad hamid for speaking truth.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 10:47 am
@Engrich , enough of the facts CAN YOU THE REASONS FOR THIS SORRY STATE, OR SOME ADVICE, presumably you have some stake , presumably YOU ARE AN INDIAN
I am listening to an old song which has the following line in it.
मुझसे बेवजह शिकायत लेके , दिल की देहलीज तक आया है कोई
What beauty, what tear all down my cheek
@ Sanjay Dhawan
I think you were trying to crack some good joke that Kashmiri Hindus mistreated Muslims and so deserved punishment. How far from truth you are… almost Kashmir to Kanyakumari.
There was no differencce when boys played toghether in field. No difference when people work together. Only diffeernece was Kashmiri Hindu love eductaion and got government job mushc more easy. Muslim went for trade like tourism, carpet etc.
How can illtreatment hapen becasue right from 1953 Muslim have upper hand. All stories. Maybe there was illtreatment fo servant but that happen in Delhi also. NOthing bigger.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Too simplistic. Guess you are too young to stay detached and analyse.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Sometimes drawing room ananlysis only good for drawing room. You dont need complexities when you see ground situation everyday.
reagarding mys joke about barber. You said that Hindus made fun of Muslims becasue of them beiing barbers. I can tell you many baber shopd in jammu owned and run by HIndus– Monica beauty parlor, Delite man saloon, Sainik hair dresser… list will be more than 1000.
If you mean that Hindu look down on barber so deserves killing… again old story of finding some fault to justify LeT murders and Pakistnai militancy camps. Very funny that youth became miliitant becasue Panda looked down on barber. Maybe you should be careful if you come to Kashmir and want haircut.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
You understood so little !
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Cmon Sanjay that is being a bit snooty. This is classic English speaker vs the natives!
Understand the logic of what Shekhar said. That a drawing room analysis may be only good in the drawing room. I also know of the stories of Kashmiri pundits being dependent on Muslims for haircuts. This was part of an episode on DD, probably meant to highlight interdependence.
Shekhar was probably saying that in jammu Hindus have hair cut chops and probably that stage has gone.
Communication gap boss!
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
I do not learn from DD.
I have grown up children and they are half kashmiri ( KP’s).
I have seen my extended family go through turmoil. Very closely.
You need to understand KP’s well before you understand the nuances of the issue.
Check out who cleaned KP’s toilets for decades/ages in kashmir and how KP’s treat anything as simple as onion n garlic masala !
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
Punjjabis like u and me are potaoes for all seasons. Anybody outside punjab has too many reet rivaz…
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
But in the end must have been a marriage aainst ur Pop in law’s wishes… that u still have points … despite grown up children …
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:20 am
Kashmiri weddings are quite elaborate and I loved my inlaws’ indulgence.
Grown up children reference means I have been married for long and have had many years of interaction with a very large extended family.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
are you in any way related to our dear friend, the Tehlka loving Prahlad, Sir?
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
you are flamboyant as usual.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
gandotra things are other way around,it is rss and raja who mascared 250000 mulims on 6th nov 1947.recorded by international media,
Nov 5: It is one of the least known genocides in the modern history. It was carried out with such a precision that it is difficult to find its traces, except in the memories of the survivors, and the tales of horror they passed on to their next generation. It started on November 6, 1947. Nearly two hundred thousand innocent Muslims were slaughtered by Dogra army and extremists in Jammu region.
The genocide was carried out to cleanse the Muslims from Jammu region. The Dogra troops backed up by the extremists succeeded in pushing half a million Muslims to Pakistan administered Kashmir and Pakistan.
Rashid’s father, brothers, sisters, wife, and a son were slaughtered Malik Abdul Rashid, a survivor from Reasi, currently settled in Rawalpindi, says he was 22-year old when the carnage happened.
“Men, women, children were killed in the cruelest manner, maimed, intimidated. The carnage continued for several days. I lost my father, brothers, sisters, wife, and a son,” Rashid said.
“I lost all my dears; the genocide has haunted me all my life,” he said.
On 4 November 1947, when Dogra troops entered Reasi, two highly esteemed citizens of the town, Khwaja Amkullah and Chaudhary Aziz-u-Din rushed to the office of then Deputy Commissioner Thakur Gavinder Singh, complaining against the entry of the troops when Peace Committees, comprising Hindus and Muslims, were already in place to maintain peace. Both of them were shot dead in the office.
“People were mowed down with machine guns and swords during the night. And those who had survived were assembled in a field where they were put to death. Some women who escaped jumped into Chinab river to save their honour,” Rashid recounts.
“Khwaja Ali Muhammad of Bhadarwah who was performing his duties as a public prosecutor at Reasi went to a police station to save his life, but the duty officer, a Dogra, handed him over to the RSS men. They dragged him out and tortured him so much that he begged them to kill him than torture him. But the barbarians cut his fingers one by one and told him ‘we will send your fingers to Pakistan’. He was killed near the court premises in broad day light,” Rashid said.
Rashid said Maharaja Hari Singh orchestrated the carnage to eliminate Muslims from Jammu.“Muslims were not even allowed to have weapons for self defense, but Maharaja distributed arms to the marauders of his community,” he said, adding the killers were trained and armed in RSS camps for the genocide.
He said that Maharaja Hari Singh who fled from Srinagar to Jammu on 26 October1947 ordered his troops to kill Muslims everywhere.
“The carnage started in remote villages, and many Muslims fled to towns and district headquarters. But the killers were everywhere. Hundreds of Muslims committed suicide to avoid torture,” he said.
The killers kidnapped the daughter of legendary leader Chaudhary Ghulam Abbas, the prominent leader of Muslim Conference. Mistari Ahmed-u-Din hailing from Mast Garh Mohalla of Jammu himself killed his two daughters fearing the Hindu marauders would rape them.
except zhoot spreading machine of rss nobody ever say that mulims of kashmir ever killed hindus.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
!! ~~~ ENGRICH CREATES TORA BORA FOLK TALES !! ~~~ !!
i WILL nominate this as among Engrich’s best. A folk tale of a non existent massacre. beautiful Tora Bora stuff.!!
Engrich, Osama drininking water in the Indian Ocean will luv this !!
!~~DON’T WORRY SHEKHAR ~~ WE WILL TAKE UP YOUR CAUSE ~~~!
Shekhar your tears and casue will not be forgotten… by me at least.
I think you should tell more of your bretheren to articulate their feelings on other forums as well. In our country we somehow tend to respect only those who create the maximum sound and fury. Even on this blog you would have noticed that people only ttook notice when you did not let diversionary tactics subvert your agenda.
Yes, it is sad that we keep talking about Babri masjid all the time and yet forget what is happening right now or even the destruction of temples in Jammu and Kashmir.
Your point about J&K not having a very rigid caste system was interesting. Maybe all of India can learn something. Let us all declare all to be pundits !
Why has the plight of the Kashmiri Hindu not got poets and writers into as much action is an interesting question.
Was it becasue Arundhati Roy somehow gave the militants an image of being the suffering party?
This is a male domintaed nation where everyone falls for what a woman says. Renuka Choudhary may tell a 100 lies. Jaya may be maha corrupt, Maya an elphant full of currency notes and Sonia only intersted in dynasty. But they will have male sympathy.
Even our own Vinod Sharma, when seated between Nidhi and Manish tewari , tends to dump fellow traveller Tewari and agree with Nidhi when the crux comes.
More suggestions later… as I need to go the supermarket for…. groceries !
Maybe the Kashmiri hindus should start getting some articulate female spokesperson as a start…
gandotra u think that indians are fools and bunch of idiots.in presence of 700000 indian
troops in valley ,how muslims can do ethenic cleansing.pundits were tranported to jammu BY HINDU NAZI JAGMOHAN, to save them from pain of continous curfew.many many pundits have returned back when they found that hidu extremist are playing politics on them instead of helping
them.nearly all of them found their houses and religious places intact.
ZHOOT KI TAHNI ABHI PHALTI NAHI
NAV KAQAZ KI KABHI CHALTI NAHIN.
Looks like many here are painting Kashmir with their own brush and canvass. Ravi as usual, puts some blame on BJP/RSS (he blames others too), Shekar being on the ground sees realities that affect him….
The “modern” Kashmir porblem started in early 90s (yes, there was problem before, but riffraffs here and there, no killings, no “cleansing”),, The insurgency was planned and executed by Mrs Bhutto and her hench man Hamid Gul. It was under her watch tht ISI first installed Taliban in Afghanistan. It was under her that thousands of young Islamic militnts were recruited from the madrasas to do the agency’s dirty work in Indian Kashmir.
She turned Kashmir into jehadi playground. When insurgency in the Indian portion began in 1989, it was mostly an amateur affair by young secular Muslims rising village by village, but no guns and knifes, at the most sticks and cycle chains. homemamde weapns. But by 1993, during Mrs Bhuttos second term, the Arabs and Afghanis and PAksitanis under the direction of ISI had really begun to take over the uprising from loacals. Around this time the secular leadership of JK Liberation front began losing ground to to hardline Islamist outfits like Hizbul Muhajuddin.
In an interview in 1994 when questioned about the radical Muslim extremists (from Pak) and how it all will paly out, she said “India tries to glss over its policy of repression in Kashmir, India does have might, but has been unable to crush the people of Kashmir . We are not prepared to keep silent”. Her ISI hench guy, one of the most evil person in the world then and now (he still maintains 9/11 was an inside job, nothing to do with bin Laden and 19 saudi boys) said ” The KAshmiri people have risen up , and it is the national purpose of Pakistan to help liberate them. If the Jehadis go out and contain India, trying down their army on their own soil, for a legitimate cause, why should we not support them?”
Roys complaint avbout the high handed nature of army. I wish army was sterner. Army should take over, instead of dillydallying about the niceties of representation and democracy.
When China maintains its rights to Arunchal Pradesh and Tibet, it is not for any territory, they have huge territory. It is their focus on “middle kingdom”; and bring back their original “leaf” .
If RSS/BJP is to be blamed, the blame should be that they were meek and not aggressive enough – I consider their flag hoisting effort the right start, although late. That they took negative hits for raising an Indian flag in an Indian territory talks volumes about the length appeasers will go to destroy this country.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
you are right here, as always. I think the armed rebellion of the Kashmiri Muslims against the Indian state started a little earlier than 1993-94.
Even in 1987, when I visited Kashmir, at two different places I was asked by the shikara men whether I was an army officer in mufti. The people had become suspicious and jumpy and later it became a full-blown war with India leading to the mass exodus of the pandits.
Rajiv Gandhi and Begum Bhutto have a few things in common.
Rajiv gave philip to LTTE and she gave philip to the so called mujahideen.
Both were killed in bomb attacks.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Absolute classic stuff Gopi!. This is real history which was played in front of our eyes. I salute you for putting it in sequential narration.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
As expected, you have come up with perfect logical reply.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Well at least the discussion has started.
Gopi once again provides a Right Wing perspective and the sadh sangat joins in, as a chorus.
Gopi is very good at observing and describing the REACTIONs to the activities of the RSS/BJP combo but spectacularly fails to analyse the cause and effect analysis of the situation.
My Kashmiri Pandit was hard of hearing, he did not suffer from an inability to talk. I therefore have first-hand anecdotal – backed up by historical – evidence that the Ethnic issues in Kashmir pre-date the “modern” Islamic troubles. The acceleration and spread of the strife in Kashmir is being fomented as a result of several ingredients and Islamic Jihadi, Pakistani agents and RSS/BJP are ALL in there. As I said their aim is to start a full blown Civil War, in the hope that in the end the situation will settle down to a new status quo more favourable to them.
Gopi you have never ever acknowledged that even in Kerala, the mere presence of RSS/BJP has increased the violent incidents than there would have been otherwise. This is true where ever and when-ever the RSS/BJP aim to increase their activities. For evidence just look at the number of riots that were directly linked with Advani’s Rath Yatras. ( In can provide a full-count).
So for the sake of clarity – I do ascribe blame to RSS/BJP combo more than you do. To you it is ALL the fault of Muslims, where as I believe that Muslims are not innocent, but a lot of what they do is a reaction to aggressive activities of the Hindu Right.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
Frankly Ravi, maybe staying abroad for the past 40 years has probably make you totally misread the stuation in this country. The assertion of BJP/RSS is so widely off the mark that it is like saying John F kennedy seduced Marlyn Monroe under a zionist plot — as Engrich imagined it to be.
I think you would contribute more meaningfully to the blog in case you write about topics closer to you for the past 4 decades– say the pubs of London, the politics of British Labour party. Otherwise on India it is tragically one dimensional with you sighitng RSS even on probably the Chandrayaan.
No hard feelings.
I too can make the same mistakes on say france. I learnt French in school for one year, and though i got high marks… nobody understood what I said on the streets of Paris, even though I thought I was good.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
I have lived abroad for 40 years.
But Aditya Mukherjee, Mirdula Mukherjee, Sucheta Mahajan, Bipan Chndra, etc have not. I inform myself from their studies and reports.
Come to think of it even a lifelong member of the RSS Mr Kaelkar is quite informative despite his bias.
The rest of you diatribe is not worth responding to. You once again are focused on the Messenger rather than the message.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
I think distance makes you see things thru the eyes of others, while we in India see the ground situation ourselves.
Look at gopi’s posting on kerala. He lives there. he is seeing the radicalisation of kerala Mulsims every day. He is probably seeing the birth of jehadi outifts.
You have been reading him for the past three years and will not be abe to point out a single word of prejudice against any religion or group. AND YET U WILL RATHER BELIEVE ENGRICH’S VIEW ON KERALA THAN GOPI’S
Or beleive someone else… some stupid academician sitting 1000 kilometre away rather than Shekhar Gandotra who faces bullets everyone.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
You are absolutely correct. That is how it should be.
Gopi is not a neutral observer, neither is Mr Gandotra.
Academic rigour provides a discipline to discussion that you do not rate.
So be it.
We have seen you and others here not shying away from pontificating about the English society.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
Well I shied away from Soho… and you intensely believe you saw me there…
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Sorry could not have, I was either in Gitmo or Muridke.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
I do not say ALL the fault is Muslims’. In fact, I do believe India’s future will be as much of Pervez, Rizwan, Shoeb etc efforts as Viju, Aloke, Iwsar etc.
Dont even talk about kerala. I do believe it will be come another Kashmir – precisely because no politician wants to do anything as they sat out during Kashmir crisis. Sometimes it helps freedom to be won through real bloodshed to feel emotional and personal ownership of ones land.
For you to blame BJP/RSS for KAshmir problems is called audacity. Blame them for Gujrat or Babri, but not for Kshmir and kerala.
But let India loving people be warned – Kerala will become like a Kashmir. Jehadis will take over another beautiful part of India as they have taken over the most beautiful part of India. Politicians wont do anything; so it is upto you to do before it is too late.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
It is unbecoming of someone like you to deliberately exaggerate.
I do not and did not blame RSS/BJP alone. I said they are there and they are active, so they have to share S O M E of the blame.
They are N O T blame-less.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
tell gopi to awnser,whether 250000 jammu natives were mascared by raja,its army and goons of rss or not.why raja and leaders of rss were not tried for this heinous crime.
how he says rss is meek.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Dont even talk about kerala. I do believe it will be come another Kashmir
gopi on the instruction of america ur bosses have decided to convert kerala,another somalia.they wasnt millitary base their.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:50 am
I guess you have a point.
VHP/RSS can not be blamed for the Kashmir problem.
AshishC Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
If RSS was not there, you would invent it. I also have a lot of Kashmiri friends- Hindus and Muslims and I have never heard anyone blame Kashmir problem on the machinations of the sang parivar, even once- ever so slightly.
The Muslim perspective:
… and the Hindu
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Happy to provide evidence, when I find it.
Meanwhile read Tarun Vijay on Kashmir.
Like Nathu Ram Godse, he has NEVER EVER been a member of the RSS.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
RSS does not have any formal membership and no records are maintained(*). A Hindu male can become member by joining the nearest ‘Shakha’, which is the basic unit.
* So very clever and diabolical. When caught with one’s pants (sorry, khakhi knickers) down, there is no way to prove that he ever was a member of the RSS and no wrong doing can be attributed to the organisation, who generally say he was a member but that was eons ago.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Manohar, precisely that was my point.
Tarun Vijay is an out and out communal individual. He was a RSS Pamphleteer
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
He was? He is.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
I think was, because he left that post to become a research scholar at the Shyama Parsad Mookherji Research Institute
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
ashish 90%of kashmiris are recent convert from brhmns.they all want to live with india peacefully,maintaining their identity.
india should recognize this fact that kashmir was not part of india.it acceeded to india with certain condition.even language of indian kashmir and pakheld kashmir is different.they dont trust each other.
hindus and muslims were living like brother till shayama prasad mukherjee and balraj madhok ignited first communal riot over there.still muslim kashmiri is more close to hindu kashmiri than muslims of india.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Here is something for starters.
If nothing else it makes RSS a fully involved party.
The RSS has been the main challenger to Kashmiri Muslims, who in the name of preserving the “Kashmiri identity” are fighting for the independence/autonomy/special status of this most sensitive and strategic state on border. Considering the accession of Kashmir to India as complete and final, the RSS maintains that its history, geography and culture have made it an inseparable part of India and as such any claim of Pakistan or the separatist elements in the valley must be defeated by any means.
The RSS Shakhas started coming up in Jammu in 1940 and Prem Nath Dogra, a member of Praja Sabha of Dogra rule in Kashmir became its first Sanghchalak in Jammu in 1942. Prof, Balraj Madhok also started a Shaka in Srinagar in 1944. M.S.Golwalkar, the then RSS chief made his first visit to Srinagar sometime in middle of 1946 and addressed a rally of Kashmiris in the valley, which had 90% Muslim population. He also met Maharaja Hari Singh on October 18, 1947 and played an important role in convincing him for state’s accession to India (Narendra Sehgal in his book – Memorial of Mistakes – Converted Kashmir page 244).
The RSS was banned following the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi on January 30,1948 but once the ban was lifted, it became the vanguard to challenge the Nehruvian policy on Kashmir through its political arm, the Bhartiya Jana Sangh and later through Bhartiya Janata Party (till it was in opposition at centre ) It maintains that the Kashmir issue is a bi-product of Nehruvian secularism, which has polluted the psyche of the country to such an extent that this issue will never get resolved until the Nehruvian secularism dies.
K.R. Malkani, a senior BJP leader in his book – The RSS Story -( page 61 ) quoted the views of the Kendriya Karyakari Mandal of the RSS, the supreme policy making body of the organisation that, “the only solution of Kashmir issue was deletion of Article 370 of Indian constitution and return of Pak Occupied Kashmir. Even the BJP till it was in opposition at centre sang the same tune. The BJP leader L.K.Advani, while addressing a meeting (London – August 23,1995) organised by the “Overseas Friends of the BJP” said, ” A BJP Government would scrap Kashmir’s constitutional status and recover the third of the state’s territory under illegal Pakistani occupation” (Hindustan Times, New Delhi, August 24,1995).
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
gopi thomas on 6th 1947 rss ,raja and his army killed 250000 muslims telling them that we are taking you to sialkot.confirm is it right or not.u say rss is meek,ha ha ha.waiting ur reply.i hope u will run away and enter into debate.
The “Business” of False Civil & Criminal Cases.
I came across this interesting article, thought of sharing with fellow bloggers.
What an irony. nobody has pointed this out in so many words.
Yes, Rajiv did feed the LTTE under advise of JN Dixit and Mani Aiyar.
And the LTTE tragically killed him in a bomb blast.
Benazir nurtured the Taliban, under adivse of hamid Gul and Robin Rapheal. And the Taliban thanked her with a bomb blast…
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
You reap what you sow. What about Ms. Indira Gandhi ?
Similar fate .
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Gen Zia… blown in the sky eating mangoes.
In Mrs Gandhi;s case I would say it is doubly sad as she probably did NOT train militants or anything of that sort. It was her advisors who tried to just feed some small fantaics in order to raise the pitch .
Sadly… vet sadly we have again fed segregating religioous agendas
~~~ THE REAL STORY OF RAPE AND RAPE ~~ from Kashmir ~~~~ !!~~~
We have heard many a story of imaginary fake rapes. Almost as if there was a charge of the Rape brigade/
Rapes to the left of us
Rapes to the right of us
But the real TRUE story takes the cake. FREEDOM at MIDNIGHT by Larry Collins and Lapiere tells it in gr8 detail. I am just recalling from memory.
This was when the wild bunch of Murderous Pakistani tribals came to Conquer Kashmir in 1947. And then they heard of a monastry where 500 European nuns were staying…
First the murderous tribals ran there, abandoniing the battle to control kashmir. They even killed each other in the lust to enter the Monastry…
And when they entered… hundreds of them stayed there for a week. … raping and raping…
i dont know how to write I only copy paste.
Innocent well-meaning people have fallen prey to the media’s evil designs. The Gujarat riots were plain riots- not pogrom’ or ‘massacre’. The state government- far from being involved in the riots- handled the riots effeciently and controlled them in 3 days- while riots continued in Gujarat for 6 months in 1969 and 1985 under Congress rule in which close to 10,000 people each were killed. At the time of the 2002 riots, this same English media did report the truth at times. The following facts will make it clear-
1) On 28 February 2002 , The Hindustan Times reported that the entire police force of 70,000 had been deployed in Gujarat view of apprehensions that riots may break out.
2) On Feb 28 The Indian Express reported that “(On Feb 27) the state government had deployed the Rapid Action Force in Ahmedabad and other sensitive areas and the Centre sent in CRPF personnel”.. Both these reports were published even before a single riot had taken place.
3) Riots began in Ahmedabad on Feb 28 at 11 AM . India Today weekly ( 18 March 2002 ) reports that Modi informally requested the Centre for deployment of Army at 12-00 noon i.e. within 1 hour. The same weekly also reports one column of troops reached Ahmedabad at 2-30 AM on 1st March and staged a flag march the same morning at 9 AM.
4) The same weekly in the issue also says that the then Defence Minister George Fernandes was in Ahmedabad at 2-00 Am on 1st March on Modi’s request and was bravely on Ahmedabad’s streets that morning (1st March) at a great personal risk.
5) The Hindu reported on 1st March 2002 that, “The Army units, frantically called by the Chief Minister, Narendra Modi…started arriving in Ahmedabad…”.This shows that some Army units reached Ahmedabad so quickly on Feb 28 that The Hindu had time to report their arrival on Feb 28 itself and publish it on 1st March!
6) Out of 18,600 villages, 240 towns and 25 district headquarters, hardly 60 places saw riots. One-third of Gujarat, i.e. Saurashtra and Kutch were completely unaffected by riots even in the first 3 days. After the first three days- riots were limited to Ahmedabad, Vadodara and some places near Godhra- and almost all were started by Muslims.
7) In the first three days- Gujarat police shot dead 98 rioters- majority of whom were Hindus. On 1st March, The Hindu reported that- “At least 10 people have been killed in police firing in Ahmedabad alone by evening (of Feb 28)”. Then on 2nd March, The Indian Express reported that “Police shot dead 20 people in Gujarat, 12 in Ahmedabad, on 1st March”. Then on 3rd March, Indian Express reported-”77 more people have been killed in Police/ Army firing (on 2nd March)”. Then on 2nd March ‘The Hindu’ reported that-”Unlike Feb 28 when one community was entirely at the receiving end, the minority backlash on 1st March has further worsened the situation.”
The Times of India dated 18 March 2002 devoted a complete report titled, “Riots hit all classes, people of all faith” on Hindu victims of the riots and says, “Contrary to popular belief that only Muslims have been affected in the recent riots more than 10,000 persons belonging to the Hindu community have also become homeless”.
9) The Indian Express devoted two full reports exclusively to Hindu victims in Ahmedabad in its issues dated 7 May 2002 and 10th May 2002. The victims were not only homeless; they did not even have relief camps to live in, and hence had to live in temples.
10) India Today weekly reports in its issue dated 27 May 2002, “A series of attacks by Muslims on policemen has further added to mutual lack of faith. Now strapped with the anti-Muslim label, the police has been slow in acting against Muslim fanatics”.
11) India Today (27 May 2002) also gives details of attacks on Hindus by Muslims. The same weekly reports in its issue dated 15 April 2002 that- “A young Hindu went to Himmatnagar (Muslim) area of Ahmedabad to do business and was found dead, with his eyes gouged out”. This issue also gives details of Muslim aggression.
12) India Today weekly dated 22 April 2002 also reports that ‘Gujarat police saved 2,500 Muslims from certain death in Sanjeli, North Gujarat on 1st March 2002′. The weekly also says- ‘Like Sanjeli, 5,000 Muslims were also saved in Bodeli town in Vadodara district by the police’ and ‘Thousands of Muslims were also saved in Viramgam town from 15,000 armed Hindus’ by police and the Army. The UPA government- staunchly anti-BJP, has given figures of 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus killed in the Gujarat riots, and 223 missing, in Rajya Sabha on 11 May 2005. A total of 790 Muslims were killed in the riots- more than thrice that number were saved on one day at a single place.
13) Throughout Gujarat riots- there are only two instances of real anti-Muslim riots-The Ehsan Jafri case and the Naroda Patiya case. In the Ehsan Jafri case, the police shot dead 5 Hindus outside his house and saved the lives of more than 200 Muslims. There were 250 people inside Jafri’s house and the mob killed 39- with police saving more than 200- despite being overwhelmingly numbered by the rioters who were more than 10,000..
14) There have been 4 convictions of Muslims for rioting after Godhra and Muslims were given various sentences. 4 Muslims were convicted by a Vadodara fast track court on 16 October 2003 and given life imprisonment. Ex-Vadodara Deputy Mayor and Congress leader Nisar Bapu was acquitted, but his son and son-in-law were convicted. This was reported in at least three English dailies, including The Times of India dated 17 October 2003. 9 and 7 Muslims were convicted in two separate judgments on 18 and 28 March 2006 by fast track courts in Ahmedabad- reported by all major English dailies the next day. Muslims were hardly the cattle hiding from the slaughter house that the media makes them out to be. The conviction of Muslims proves that Muslims were equally on the offensive.
The newspaper editors and others who call the Gujarat riots as a ‘holocuast’, ‘pogrom’, ‘genocide’ or ‘massacre’ should look at their own newspapers’ reports on these very things. Will these facts awaken the conscience of the newspaper editors and journalists and ofcourse the electronic media and make them reveal the bitter truth of the Gujarat riots- that even after Godhra, the riots that followed were not one-sided?
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
…. yet 1500 plus innocent people (Hindus and Muslims) lost their lives, whose only ‘crime’ was being in the ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ under a totally ‘inept / complicit’ administration.
No one has been held responsible for dereliction of duty, many of the bureaucrats and police officers were rewarded with promotions and plum post retirement jobs for ’services’ rendered. Those who tried to do their constitutional duty were transferred out and victimized. The chief minister was compared to Nero.
Then there was a total mockery of justice, so much so that the cases had to be transferred out of the state. A slap on the face of …………..
A inquiry commission (Mehta Nanavati) was set up, which is absolutely in no hurry (a la Liberhan) to complete its work and make it public, even as 10 years have passed.
Let us put the above behind us for a moment..
Today, even after 10 years there is no remorse, no apology, no compassion, no kindness and no justice to the victims.
These colonies came up to house the poorer Muslim families who had run away from the riot hit areas. One such colony, Citizen Nagar, has been created bang next to Ahmedabad’s largest garbage dump. Large families crowded into small tenements, the living conditions are sub-human.
Next to a garbage dump! Must be part of Vibrant Gujarat.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
man is sentenced to death for one murder.modi should pay for the sufferings of hapless innocents of gujrat.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
) Throughout Gujarat riots- there are only two instances of real anti-Muslim riots-The Ehsan Jafri case and the Naroda Patiya case. In the Ehsan Jafri case, the police shot dead 5 Hindus
a lie lie and lie.give me the name of 5 hindus.
engrich Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
here have been 4 convictions of Muslims for rioting after Godhra and Muslims were given various sentences
these four will be released from high court as cases against them are fabricated.modi agents ignited the bogey to give reaosn for riot which was preplanned.
~~~ HISTORY BEING MADE PRETTY AND SEDUCTIVE~~ like a *****…. ~~
SInce we are now pretty deep into debate of what happened in Kashmir. JNU historians, RSS, acadmecians and all that, let me give a new dimension.
V S Naipul perceptively stated that history has been written from the viewpoint of the victor. And becasue the Moaris, the Aborigines, the Red Indians lost out… where the hell is their history?
Closer home, Pakistan has its version of history where man in born in the 7th century, the Indus valley and dinosaurs dont exist and before the Arab horsemen came here, jahils abounded.
Let me tell you a secret about Indian history books… told to me by a senior acadmecian from the JNU.
“Vijay… it has a lot to do with the Minsitry of HRD and Education….. ” he said as we shared a bottle of Black and WHite on a cool December night in his lawns across a bonfire. ” The Congress ruled for most of the time. Nurul hasan wanted to dliute the violnce inflicted by the marauding invaders.”
In short the mandate was to make “HISTORY LOOK PRETTY.”
All historians were also GIVEN A MANDATE TO WRITE AGAINST POSSIBLE LONGTERM RIVAL OF THE CONGRESS WHICH WAS AT ONE POINT THE JAN SANGH and after 1980, the bjp.’
Many of these historians were communists and with apoligies to Ashish-Bongs. They found a common enemy– anti congress and anti left– the answer was RSS and BJP.
They could not see the 26 millions who died in Maoists camps and culural revolution… but could write beautifull prose about CONGRESS AND LEFT in history books.
I see the ardour of a newfound love in History.
May I recommend couple of others:
Jadunath Sarkar and RC Majumdar. Formidable, very very.. (thus spake Yoda)
In fact Jadunath Sarkar on Auragzeb has much more breadth than Habib.
Sarkar and Majumdar were bongs too- mercifully not JNU-type!
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:40 pm
Will give them a go.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:41 pm
A little curious – have you read Kosambi ?
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
Will definately try to catch up on sarkar. Just try reading Vinod mehta’s Lucknow Boy. Will give u an idea on how news reprts are actually made and how newspaper owners twist stories for the ruling party.
Even though Vinod Mehta is way out Sonia fan and BJP baiter… his book is en eye opener.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
By the way JNU has the best campus for booze and the best rocky roads behind for after booze drives… I hope you did indulge there….
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:59 am
In my salad days, yes-. My lips are sealed.
For those (especially engrich), who has been crying about Batla House encounters being fake-
please read Mihir Srivastava (ex Tehelka, I Today) in the current Open magazine cover story.
He is admant that he had a detailed conversation with the 3 boys picked up from Batla house – please read and form your own conclusions.
Try posting a link
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Please provide the link.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
BTW, just noticed you have been mentioning Engrich quite often in your posts recently.
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:58 am
I have never tried to get him banished- it is my hope that he can be countered by fact and reason.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:31 am
why goverment is shying of enquiry police has no right to kill anybody.they had no arms.since police officers of modi are chained and sent to jail,no terrorist have come to kill.easiest way to check is see his bank account.one of them was involve in hawala bussines.
Ramdev backs Kejriwal, says corrupt leaders will be ousted like Gaddafi
Baba Ramdev envisions a Libya-like popular revolution in India in which the corrupt leaders will be ousted from power like Muammar Gaddafi, the slain long-time ruler of the north African country.
Angry parties unite to slam Kejriwal on remark against MPs
Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal was attacked by political parties for his reported remarks that ‘rapists, murderers and looters’ are sitting in Parliament. RJD national general secretary Ram Kripal Yadav said, “RJD will bring a privilege notice during the budget session of Parliament.”
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
well it depends on whom you think is honest. Kejriwal who runs an NGO from the downbeat area of Nandnagari fo Delhi or Lalu who runs a dynasty of wife and sons funded on many corruptions including fodder and much much more..
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Even the BJP has slammed Kejriwal. Do you agree with the BJP or will you choose to scoot?
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
I will agree with kejriwal. having lalu, Digivjay, Raju, and DP yadav as MPs is a shame
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:34 am
I hope you are not falling into the usual ‘parlaiment is supreme”
Many of them are rapists, looters, … Lalu is a big looter…
we tried Anna peaceful method. May be as Ramdev says we need a “Lybian” method..
This rape of the country just cannot continue.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:41 am
Kejriwal has questioned the quality of the membership, which in no way can challenge the fact that the parliament is supreme.
There are one too many undesirables in our legislatures. To bring that figure to zero, all parties need to enact a law. What are the ’self-righteous’ parties and leaders doing anything about it except make noise?
Libyan style ‘revolutions/changes’ can only happen in authoritarian regimes. Maybe, what Anna and his gang tried was precisely that in the ‘guise’ of fighting corruption, forgetting the cardinal fact that India is a democracy.
Hindu girl kidnapped, forced to convert in Pakistan
A Hindu girl was kidnapped and allegedly forced to convert in Pakistan’s southern Sindh province on Sunday, prompting President Asif Ali Zardari to direct authorities to investigate the incident.
Zardari also called for “transparent and expeditious investigations” in the matter and for action in accordance with the law, regardless of the influence and status of anyone involved in the criminal activity, the officials said.
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
I find such acts of forcible conversions diabolical and condemn them.
I understand when other blogers here kick up a fuss when this type of activity is exposed.
However, it was some comfort to read that Zardari has called for an investigation. Let’s see what comes out of it.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
This is like a coke and pepsi war . Custodians of Islam has decided that in the end it is all about how many customers do you have, even if you get them foricbly.
Do you think this will have a happy end? No it wont.
The girl will be forcibly married, made pregnant and then she will reconcile to her fate and FAITH.
Engirches of the world will then give a lecture how she has been rescued from brhmns and zionist. He can give it right now. Ask now… and get it.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:26 am
The girl will be forcibly married, made pregnant and then she will reconcile to her fate and FAITH
in india hundreds of hindu girls are raped.it is far better to marry the girl than leaving her after kidnapping.
in hinduism women has no religion so claim of conversion is wrong.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:50 am
neverthless force marriage is crime and not accepted in islam.this should be investigated and the man should be punished according to sharia.which is death.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:23 am
conversion because kidnapper wanted to marry her.hindu girls are raped and kidnapped daily in india.why communalise the issue.in last 2 weeks 6 muslim girls were kidnapped and raped.this is usual law and order problem.communalists are taking advantage of this.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:47 am
“However, it was some comfort to read that Zardari has called for an investigation. Let’s see what comes out of it”.
That was the only reason I posted the link. Otherwise no one gives a damn to such incidents.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:23 am
I think we should give a damn about the forcible conversions. At one level it is torture of an innocent girl. At another it is the victory of the fanatics to launch a religious war of converting.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:28 am
There is nothing new in this story. This has been happening in Pakistan since
many years and will continue to happen.
~ A TEAR FOR TUAKRAM OMBLE, Sandeep Unhikrishnan and MC SHARMA ~~
and a kick in the bhun_ for SALMAN KHURSHID, Digivnash Singh and Congress ~
I have maintained all along that the Congress has been instrumental in casuign the Punjab problem and will casue another for winning elections. In the UP elections they chose to create imaginary grieviences in the minds of the Muslims thru Yuvraj, Digviash and Salman Khurshid.
Batla aHouse hero MC SHARMA was sacrificed for votes and power. Here is the story Ashish talked about… in the words of India Today and now OPen correspondent Mihir Srivastav.
Mahesh, Ravi, Manohar who doubt what Vijay Kumar writes calling it right wing… may read it twice and tell me how it is different from the truth I write… )
In September 2008, I headed to Batla House near Delhi’s Jamia Milia Islamia in the aftermath of the police encounter that took place six days after the Delhi Serial Blasts of 13 September that killed 30. Given the history of such events in India, it was reasonable to expect that this was yet another fake encounter. The story that I eventually filed turned out to be something else. It was published as a cover story in India Today, titled ‘Inside the Mind of the Bombers.’ It was based on my conversation with three young men arrested after the encounter who were later accused of carrying out the September blasts. They bared themselves to me. They told me what they did was jihad in the name of Allah. I expected them to say they were innocent. They did not. I reported what they told me.
It was a sheer coincidence that I was present at Batla House the evening the three were picked up, a day after the encounter. It was the month of Ramzan, and a friend of mine had invited me there for a meal. It was a tense evening. My friend received a call that three local boys, Rehman, Nisar and Shakeel, all in their twenties, had been picked up on terror charges and were being held at the local police station. Locals, perhaps to prevent another violent encounter, had mobbed the police station. I went there and was able to strike up a conversation with them. One of the three clearly needed to vent pent up emotions. I gave him the outlet.
I was not there alone; relatives and acquaintances of the three men were wandering in and out, and in all the confusion of the cops trying to hold off the mobs, no one was guarding the arrested men closely.
Later, when the matter was discussed in court, civil rights lawyer Prashant Bhushan mocked our affidavit on what they had told me, saying that if there were so many people around, how come the story is exclusive? I failed to understand his argument. The story was ‘exclusive’ because I was perhaps the only journalist present.
I did not expect the reaction my story received. I don’t have an ideology. I don’t stand left, right or centre of the political spectrum. I write what I see, as I see it. If I have any inherent bias, I try to keep it at bay by sticking to the facts of the matter. This philosophy, which, mind you, is not an ideology, has served me well. I feel strongly that it is my duty to tell my readers what I see or hear, and try not to temper it with any extraneous considerations.
I sent an SMS to Arundhati Roy soon after this story was published, seeking her comments. ‘I am disturbed,’ she wrote back, ‘But willing to listen.’ The first sentence is a comment. In retrospect, I take it as a compliment: my story disturbed her. I was disturbed too. The idea of the report was to disturb people. But the second sentence was condescending. She might have been ‘willing to listen’, but I was unwilling to defend myself for her judgment. I did not owe her any explanation.
But this was just the beginning. Her acolytes got into the act. One of them accused me of carrying out a ‘fake encounter in journalism’. Said an India Today colleague with a smile: “You didn’t just change your job (joined India Today after a four-year stint with Tehelka), but also your ideology!”
Though my critics could not find a single error in my story, their version of reality soon came to influence the country’s liberal discourse. I saw Arundhati Roy in conversation with Karan Thapar on Devil’s Advocate. “You are extremely upset by the fact that India Today journalists were given access to the young men arrested at Batla House so that interviews could be done,” he told her on air. His assumption was weird. What made him so sure that I was ‘given access’ to them? The truth is that the police spent days trying to knock down my claim that I had spoken to the three. It was only when mobile phone tower records confirmed my presence in the area at the time (as I later learnt) that they backed off.
Arundhati Roy seemed to have anticipated Thapar’s hypothetical question. She called my story an example of the “phenomenon of media confessions” that was “becoming a standard operating procedure with the Special Cell and Delhi Police”. Her lawyer friend Prashant Bhushan even took me to court for allegedly publishing a police version of the trio’s confession, one that he claimed they were forced to make under duress. If you could not dismiss the message, shoot the messenger.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
Open Magazine :
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
What is your point?
Ravi Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:22 pm
I think that is a link to the article Ashish was refering to but did not provide a link.
Anonymous Reply:February 26th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:31 am
Thanks for the link. The article proves the fact about Ms. Roy what
most of the bloggers say about her that she is selective in blaming
people for their crimes.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:35 am
Ms. Roy is not in-fallible. She too is a human being.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:43 am
Yes, as we all are. But I wish that these people were
not biased as their word carry some weight.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:18 am
Batla aHouse hero MC SHARMA was sacrificed for votes and power
he was doing this to make money .he could easily catch them alive.they had no arms.one of them was involve in hawala bussines.
@mahesh, you are steeped in science and not “liberal arts” thus objective. I beleive you wanted to draw attention to afzal guru in that write up in OPEN MAGAZINE.
Does training in surgery makes you see things which others can’t see.
Despite being 5000 miles away , I can punch 5000 holes in the claim in that article about afzal guru’s case being a miscarriage of justice.
I have heard afzal guru confess in open TV looking completely without any duress,
THAT HE HAD PROVIDED LOGISTICAL SUPPORT , because he was under some compulsion.MOBILE PHONE RECORDS CLEARLY ESTABLISH THE JEHADIS TALKING TO AFZAL GURU 10 mins before the shooting.
His wife broke down under interrogation , and sang like a canary.
Helping, and abetting terrorists is punishable by death according to indian laws
IN UK LAWS ARE EVEN DRACONIAN, mere support for terrorist causes or visiting terrorist sites will bang you up for 10 yrs.
@Vijay Khanna , this is your MAYA PHILOSOPHY COUNTRY that is india.
Couldn’t the reporter carry a recorder to record the conversation with the terrorists.
I mean cheap mobile phones like LG have voice recording , new Apple Iphone 4s , HAS HD video recording.
Amazing isn’t it.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:37 am
The legal system here is notoriously slow.
Actually, I would like Sharia law to be deployed for certain crimes – terrorism, corruption to name a few.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:04 am
south indian brhmns wanted sharia instead of western legal system.but it is because of north indian hatred against muslims that british laws were imposed.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:31 am
Gopi is referring to harsh physical punishment as practised in few middle east countries. Do you support such punishment ?
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:39 am
I can understand why Gopiji is advocating this. He is
clearly frustrated because criminals are getting away
without being punished in India.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:57 am
That is happening for scores of reasons. Just Increasing severity of punishment may not be the answer.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:29 am
Was just trying to put up the link Ashish and Vijay Kumar were talking about. Nothing more to it.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:10 am
I was panicking at the thought of losing a fellow traveller
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:11 am
Tarun Vijay, a communalist? What a joke!!!
Everybody who questions congress and its corruption is communal..but Congress pandering to extremist muslim elements is Secular, a cardinal interfering in diplomatic matters is secular..India is a joke under Congress.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:46 am
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:39 am
And India sent a cabinet minister and a whole official delegation to the Vatican for the promotion of a bishop of Indian origin to the rank of cardinal!
We then keep on thumping our chests that we are secular!!!!
Agreed. Congress is creating 21st century communalism.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:34 am
Tarun Vijay may not be communalist but all his articles are one sided.
Always blaming congress.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Yes, this may be true, we have dozens of journalists, who practice their profession in the same vein, starting with Vinod Sharma….No body called them communalists. That is my point. Label makers, Who??
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
In India definition of communalism is different.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
You can call Tarun Vijay polically biased just like Vinod Sharma, Rajdeep Sardesi, Barkha Dutt but to call him communal is wrong.
Sometimes the info provided on this blog just numbs me. Collectively, the 15 odd regular bloggers here seem to have an encyclopedia of info and a veritable treasury of links.
I refer of course to the excellent article posted by Ashish and Mahesh, which seems to prove ? THAT THE BATLA HOUSE ENCOUNTER WAS GENUINE. For after all, when the same journalist was suggesting that other encounters were fake, Geelani, Arundhati and Prashant Bhushan suported him.
“We believe in what we want to believe in”
The only jarring note is struck by someone here whose boasting of his intellectual stature is now bordering on the ridiculous. I am sure Shenoy, Vijay and Balwinder praaji will take corrective measures in their jocular way
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:16 am
if batala house wa genuine why goverment is shying enquiry.easiest way to check bank account of sharma.truth will come out.
important question our chief security advisor is removed and sent to bengal as governor nobody is coming to kill modi and terrorists have suddenly disappeared.
“a tear for Omble, Unnikrishnan, and Sharma’…
Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan wanted to join army, wanted to be in “special forces”, wanted to protect India and Indians.
He was a Malayali; he had a heroic death (he would not have died if our government treated terrorism seriously and had logistics and infrastructure to support our heroes).
One month before his death, four Malayali Muslims got killed in an encounter with the army in Kashmir. Three of them were from my district; one – Mohamed Fiyaz – half a mile from my house.
Ever since then I have been thinking about what makes a boy die for his country, and what makes his neighbour boy to be a traitor to his country.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:58 am
One month before his death, four Malayali Muslims got killed in an encounter with the army in Kashmir. Three of them were from my district; one – Mohamed Fiyaz – half a mile from my house.
from where u got this information please give me reference.if u cannot it means it is another lie.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:10 am
Truely inspiring Gopi. Somehow the dirty communaol politics of this country and the media has more time for Digivijay’s utterances on 26/11 than for memory of the greatness of Unhikrishman’s act…
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan wanted to join army, wanted to be in “special forces”, wanted to protect India and Indians
u have no pain for 266 indians murdered by terrorists.this is not shame that inspite of huge no. of nsg gaurds police force and army such large no of indians were killed.
@Gopi thomas and all the JNU and non JNU , and all the jhoolawallahs and non jholawallah history schools and Ravi et al
There was a documentary on NDTV about a village in GUJRAT.
I think this documentary helps to understand the gujrati hindu animosity towards the muslims.
There is a village in gujrat , probably bordering sindh or rajasthan.
A sizable chunk of the population is BIRELIGIOUS(if ever there was such a word)
They worship both Allah and Krishna. I saw in my own eyes , pictures of Kaba in a photoframe hanging from the wall as well as a photoframe of Lord Krishna.
Now apparently BHP have been active to COUNTER the jamat e Tablighi influence to INCREASE THEIR FLOCK , by turning them KOSHER, for VHP that means totally hindu , for Jaamat totally islam.
Competition for market share is what started a vigorous campaign by both sides.
Market wars is replaced later by communal riots.
After the gujrat riot , many theories were put forward WHY ONLY IN GUJRAT THIS HATRED SO DEEP.Same said Gujrat never had an exposure to western liberal thoughts like the bengalees (obviously that author chose to ignore noakhali, perhaps he was meaning recent times)
The fact is HINDU religion and ISLAM is like chalk and cheese .
The seeds of partition lie in NOT RECOGNISING this obvious fact.
Anglosaxons understood this. Thus they gave Muslims PERSONAL LAW (means stew in your religious obscurantism)
But with HINDUS , they encouraged Raja Ram Mohan Roy to draft as many bill he wishes , so as to make a bonfire of Hindu laws.
They could have easily sided with Ashish’s .Ishwars , shenoys and Mishras.
Nehru was stupid and hypocritical to dismiss this bare fact , that hindus and muslims are two different poles.
Thus congress first accepted Jinnah’s separate electorate elections , and then turned
down Jinnah’s offer of common electorate with conditionalities.
The consequence was partition.
Nirad Choudhuri unequivocally endorses this separate identity.
As for “god’s own country”, the same mistake is being made by Gopi.
Because there was a SURGE of HINDU RELIGION based nationalism during ADVANIS RATH YATRA/BABRI DEMOLITION , there followed the dictum of that man who was inspired by a falling apple(apparently it is more of a folklore). Muslim Religion based nationalism , which is pan nationalistic , or ummah
In islam religion is nationalism , nationalism is religion.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT
Now the country I am currently staying , has nationalism in its GENES and so far english is concerned it is 100 percent more stronger than german nationalism ever was.But like so many things english IT IS UNDERSTATED(Ravi definitely needs to comment on this)
I understand Advani did try to broaden the scope of the word HINDU , meaning PEOPLE OF HINDUSTAN , that is people with a COMMON CULTURE /FOOD /MUSIC /SHARED HISTORY ETC
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:36 am
advani is sikh.his only ambition is to become pm.he is not but was leading ram mandir movement.being born and brought up in pakistan he has no love for india.he shows himself a muslims to get votes of middle class hindus.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:00 am
Advani was born in India not in Pakistan.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
advani came to india from boac in 1959.afrer planting bomb in public raly. when all his assocites were arrested.
The Brahminists rule India by adopting a superb magic formula:
Keep the people starved, illiterate, superstitious and caste divided.
Such humans reduced to bones and animal level can be easily managed to surrender and serve the Brahminists injecting a heavy dose of their poisonous religion.
Non-Hindu Muslims and Christians are dubbed anti-national and silenced. That is how even a proven terrorist party like the RSS-BJP gets elected.
When this is the enormous commanding capacity of the less than 15% Brahminists, they can make even a donkey as PM and mislead us saying it is the prize-winning Derby horse.
For all those who miss their watan…in my case India,
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:06 am
Beautiful Rajeev, Fantastic !!
Gets tears into your eyes!
For all those die hard romantics..like Vijay, Mohan..etc.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:14 am
Absolutely perfect song! It is based on a classical western violen tune… Bach?Beethoven? But truely extraordnary.
For me a sentimental number… especially as my dad would luv this song and play it often on the record player… long long time back in the eighties.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:49 am
If I am not mistaken the tune is by Mozart.
An early Nokia ring tone used a small section of it.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Thx.. my grey cells started diminshing as I entered the 30’s
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:27 am
I hope the rate of decay is slow.. those like me who are considerably older can do with some reassurance.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
In the past 24 hours or so on this blog, a number of ‘Teflon’ coatings have come off and the matter underneath clearly visible.
62% farmers cannot meet educational needs: Survey
A recent survey on government’s plan to shift small and marginal farmers away from unprofitable agriculture and engage them in economically viable activities, has found the government initiatives lacking in preparing the farmers undertake the transition.
The survey has revealed that the dropout rate among the farmers’ children is so high that only 0.4% of students reach the post graduation level and only 5% get technical education. Also, only 73% of posts of teachers are filled in rural areas.
Shiv Sena forces nuclear scientist to cancel lecture on Jaitapur
Eminent nuclear scientist and one of the strong supporters of the proposed 9,900 MW Jaitapur nuclear power plant Anil Kakodkar had to surrender to the Shiv Sena’s diktats.
One needs guts (a rare commodity here too) to be able to listen to other people’s views and debate them.
Post-Godhra riots continue to dog Modi’s political career
A decade on, the burning of S-6 coach of the Sabarmati Express near Godhra, which left 59 karsevaks dead and triggered massive communal riots across Gujarat, remains the biggest blemish on chief minister Narendra Modi’s political career. Hundreds of Muslims were killed, thousands displaced, and several homes destroyed in the post-Godhra riots of 2002.
LK Advani has admitted to differences with Vajpayee on Modi issue “I hope the chief minister and the state government would perform their Raj Dharma …,“ ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE, THE THEN PM, IN A LETTER TO GUJARAT CM NARENDRA MODI
“I understand there have been many riots in Hindustan. It is very often that handling of a situation…is lack of governance. The issue of an apology does not arise. But it is sure that riots are a sad issue,“ LK ADVANI, WHO WAS THEN UNION HOME MINISTER, IN 2011
Another feather in the cap of Gujarat government.
Killing two birds with one stone.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:34 am
Wonderful. Some more.
Solar bridge over canals to bridge power gap in Punjab
Jasneet Bindra : Chandigarh, Thu Jun 09 2011, 03:48 hrs
Power-Starved Punjab scripted a sunshine story on Wednesday by giving nod to a 1-MW project that will use the space above canals to generate solar power. “First-of-its-kind project outside the US”, it will be based on the design of Golden Gate in California, which uses triple galvanised cables. The project will have a bridge of solar panels above the canals.
The man who owns patent for the technology swears by the canal network of the state. Steven Conger, founder of USA’s P4P (Power for People) Energy Pvt Ltd, which is bringing the technology to Punjab, told The Indian Express that the over 14,000-km canal and distribution system will be able to address all power problems in the state.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 7:37 am
Great news. Thanks.
what else is there?
using engrich’s own technique , posting virulent anti islamic rants to counter his schizophrenic output
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:18 am
And spoil a decent blog in process.
We have no choice but to accept him
as he is and try to ignore his rants.
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:23 am
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
read RajeevS ,response to Engrich.
All guns fall silent
Calling Shenoy Sahab!
Just drove into office from site, with my boots soiled with concrete, hair filled with wind blown cement ande hands occupied by a load of construction drawings
Sir, Rajeev just posted a video of two lovely songs. I am sure you have the lyrics in your encyclopedia. Why dont you post them for us…
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:41 am
What a lovely song.
Reminds me of my home in Muridke, where a narrow pagdandi leads to an Islamic School, where I am daily reminded that only a few centuries ago primitive people who offered water to the SUN used to live here. I am so glad they have all gone east. Now only Allah ke bande live here, we get top class education and practical skills in thieving, raping, pillaging and murders, just like our ancestors used to.
Occasionally, I will look at the hari bhari sarson that we planted earlier in the year. The whistling noises of the tube wells are like tunes of A R Rehman. They can be heard from here in Muridke to the Kodak Theatre in Los Angles.
Oh the thought of home and सोने की चिड़ियाँ.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:46 am
Will take me a little time to decipher this…
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:52 am
Well some people’s home is India.
Mine is Muridke as you know all too well. I have my madani in my hand and my sarson ka saag is slowly bubling away in a chaati.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:12 am
No need to decipher, he as usual is trying to make fun
of our real emotions.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:15 am
ok.. sad then…
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am
Make fun, yes. Of your emotions, no.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Interesting satire !
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:21 am
Thank you. If you can’t beat them (or they will not lie down) then best join them.
I now see myself from their description of me.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:28 am
Satire is a literary art. Not everybody’s cup of tea. It’s difficult to stay within the boundary yet not be obvious.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:47 am
Vijay Kumar, Rajiv, Mohan and Dr. Pankaj,
I agree with all of you that these two songs are simply lovely.
And anybody who loves his country, nation and motherland cannot help getting tears in his eyes on hearing the Kabuliwala song.
I have never ceased to wonder, how Salil Choudhary, the music director of both Chaya and kabooliwala could become a soul-less communist underground mujahideen, when he could make generations of Indians proud and move them to tears at the mere sound of this patriotic song.
Here is the song in Hindi:
ऐ मेरे प्यारे वतन, ऐ मेरे बिछड़े चमन
तुझ पे दिल क़ुरबान
तू ही मेरी आरज़ू, तू ही मेरी आबरू
तू ही मेरी जान
तेरे दामन से जो आए उन हवाओं को सलाम
चूम लूँ मैं उस ज़ुबाँ को जिसपे आए तेरा नाम
तेरे दामन से जो आए उन हवाओं को सलाम
चूम लूँ मैं उस ज़ुबाँ को जिसपे आए तेरा नाम
सबसे प्यारी सुबह तेरी
सबसे रंगीं तेरी शाम
तुझ पे दिल क़ुरबान …
माँ का दिल बनके कभी सीने से लग जाता है तू
और कभी नन्हीं सी बेटी बन के याद आता है तू
माँ का दिल बनके कभी सीने से लग जाता है तू
और कभी नन्हीं सी बेटी बन के याद आता है तू
जितना याद आता है मुझको
उतना तड़पाता है तू
तुझ पे दिल क़ुरबान …
छोड़ कर तेरी ज़मीं को दूर आ पहुंचे हैं हम
फिर भी है ये ही तमन्ना तेरे ज़र्रों की क़सम
छोड़ कर तेरी ज़मीं को दूर आ पहुंचे हैं हम
फिर भी है ये ही तमन्ना तेरे ज़र्रों की क़सम
हम जहाँ पैदा हुए
उस जगह पे ही निकले दम
तुझ पे दिल क़ुरबान …
And these lyrics by Prem Dhawan are undoubtedly his best.
Salil Da, tere ko hazaar laal salaam!!!!!!
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Absoluely gr8 ! Even probably 50 years later.(?)…. my salute to manna Dey, Prem Dhawan and Salil Choudhary….!
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:55 am
And the fact that watan mentioned in the song is Afghanistan is a minor inconvinient detail.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:01 am
It is not minor. In fact it is very significant.
But, sadly, there are a particular kind of people, for whom watan means nothing and Islam means everything. You are one of them, sadly and understandably too.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:08 am
Oh absolutely agree.
Is that not the same for you. Are you not trying to blurr the boundaries between Hindu and India.
Would you like me to quote.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 11:00 am
please leave the quoting part to your quote-master partner, engrich.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Why. Have you become afraid of the truth.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
A fake talking about truth.
You are joking, no?
And your engrich bhai too entertains enormously whenever he posts long truths.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
You swim in lies. You have no other currency other than lies.
Yes one the best songs I have ever heard.
Vijay, agree with you that sometimes this song bring tears to our eyes.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:25 am
Salil Chaudhary composed music for “Chemmeen” (Prawn) , the Malayalam film of 1965, based on the famous novel by Thakazhi Siva Sankar Pillai. All the songs were big hits, in fact perennial hits. After that he scored music for 30 or so Malayalam movies. The music stayed with Malayalis even when the films flopped.
He was a leftist. But was he an ‘underground” communist mujahuddin a ka Naxalite?
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Nobody knew that Salil Da, the affable, easy going genius had the leftist bhoot hiding inside him. I am sure the kindred soul that he was, he wouldn’t have hurt even a goat, but the fact was that the government was after him and he lived in the underground for a few years after Madhumati, the award winning film.
Maya, Chaya Chemmeen etc were his creations after he returned to the civilised world.
Interestingly, the all-knowing Nirad Chaudhary of the blog once challenged me on this point and lost the argument.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
No he did not lose the argument , you are trying to teach me how to cook Dhoney chorchori.
Just like if I try to teach you Uppam.
He was member of IPTA , he was never revolutionary or anything , he was probably paid up member of CPI.
His personal life was rather complicated. He being a hindu couldn’t do what ENGRICH does all the time.
He was in love with this singer Sabita Chowdhury , yet never divorced his “dad Arranged wife”.He had children from his legal first wife as well from sabita .
His daughter from sabita , named ANTARA sang with Manna Dey , Tere Galiyon Me Hum Aayen.
He had decided to work with peasants , nothing revolutionary or anything.
Bengalee and Commie is nothing unusual , but is more of AHMEDIYA type.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:35 am
A salil Chaudhary /Manna Dey song from Chemmeen
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 9:45 am
manna Dey and Salil are an unbeatable combo. Even though my feet are in the new gen… I still feel that the sentimental at times slow songs… wwhere lyrics had meanings are just so missing today
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:51 am
those were the days.
there was not a man or boy who didn’t get “wowed” by the voluptuous Chemmeen Sheela. Not a soul who didn’t grieve for the unrequited love of the hero and heroine.
while the picture itself was oustanding, winning dozens of awards, the music complimented the mood of the film most admirably.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:44 am
Very rightly said. Even we NRIs have pangs of nostalgia/ separation. Not in the same intensity as portrayed by Balraj Sahni and sung by incomparable Manna Day.
Why would you pick on “Watan” and make an issue of that on a discussion of how beautiful Kabooliwalla song is? The bond between Mini and kabooliwallah, Kabooliwallahs reminiscence of distant lands etc are itched in generations of people who have seen the movie, or as it used to be common in those days , through school plays.
I was at a loss.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:01 am
Cmon Gopi understand. Rajeev posted the song… Shenoy gave the lyrics… that is the issue.
Ravi… honestly tell me … right or wrong?
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:10 am
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:09 am
Since you ask nicely. Here is my explanation.
1. The irony was not lost on me. It does miss you by though. Patriotism is a universal trait. Just as we love our country then so do our enemies love their own country.
2. Not so long ago some one cracked a joke on my count by saying will some come to meet me….”any one for kabul”….Pay back time.
3. I had posted the very same song on this very blog a few months ago.
4. I am of that generation who saw the movie and among those whose tears effortlessly flow on listening the song.
A French singer has sung many Bollywood songs. I have his CD.
Among those songs is Itna na mujh se tu payar.
Here is a link.
The song is based on MOZART’s symphony n°40, 1st movement.
The Ally from hell– a detailed, disturbing report on Paakistan
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:31 am
very scary. They will think they are going to jannat after blowing us to jahannum.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Very dangerous. If these weapons fall in the hands of fanatics, god only knows
what will happen.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
@shenoy , MohanR , the joke samrats, here is one for you guys to savour
One pakistani punjabi guy was mad to learn english.After a few months , his tutor gave him this homework, Translate this piece into english
DUKH HAMESHA SATH RAHETI HAI , LEKIN SUKH AATI JATI HAI
He translated as follows
MY WIFE ALWAYS STAYS WITH ME , BUT MY SISTER-IN LAW , COMES AND GOES
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Very good one. Just wondering whether I should tell this joke to my
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
very good. Shows how much the Pakistanis value their saalis.
New post from Vinod is absent.
Waiting indefinitely is not possible.
Hence:I CHALLENGE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PREJUDICES TOWARDS HINDUISM TO WATCH THIS FULL VIDEO (ALL 3 PARTS).
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
There is no link .
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
tried to copy and paste but could not. Please go to U tube and in search put this title.I could get there. Sorry for trouble.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Let me try. tks.
HINDUISM — SCIENTIFICALLY proven RELIGION (part 2 of 3)
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Watched those videos. Very very interesting. Thanks.
engrich Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
what is hinduism.i know that those who are not christian muslim and jew are hindu.
I am sure you would have met few of these ladies. Would love to meet them whenever
I visit Delhi. For a drink only.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Definitely one of the cooked up stories. It says:
“Some months back while I was dining with a friend of mine from UK, she ordered for Scotch and asked me try it too. Since I had never tasted it, I was a bit reluctant but then I finally took the jump and ordered for it and quite liked it too. Since then whisky has been a favourite. After a hard day’s work me and my friends buy a bottle of Jack Daniel’s and relax,”
Now, a Jack Daniel’s is an American Tennesse whiskey with a very strong smokey flavour because it is matured in a charred oak cask. It is nowhere close to a Scotch which is a blended whiskey made further up of the place where Ravi and Dr Shan live – in Scotland.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
A woman in UK drinking Scotch.
You must know different kind of women.
In the UK whisky forms 0.0000000000000000000000000009% of total alcohol consumed.
Scotch is also matured on OAK barrels. Whisky when distilled is colourless. Tea leaves are used to provide Colour.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
Do they drink only single malt – or are they mainly wine drinkers?
Or dont they drink Scotch because it is Scotch… (few days ago i read an inteersting article about “would Scotland go its own way and would Scotland independence mean the end of Britain”
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Most women will drink Lager in half pints.
Some will drink cider.
Some will drink white wine spitzer.
Those that will drink spirits, only a few of them, will drink Bacardi and Coke, Rum and coke, Brandy and coke, Gin and Tonic, etc…long before they would order a whisky and dry or whisky and ginger ale.
Older women may go for whisky and water.
Single malt and there are 100s of these, is a mans drink. Drunk mainly at home and hardly ever in a pub.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Looks like there is a surfeit of wine aficionados on this blog.
It is time Vinod Sharma came out of his hibernation and added his weighty ideas to the debate of the spirits.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
सिर्फ आपकी कमी थी अब वो भी पूरी हो गई
BTW who said anything about wine
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
I also felt the article was made up /not kosher.
btw how come u have not been particpating in the blog? Look forward to your well laid out analysis …
Love to hear from youngsters like you!
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
This space is so addictive, it is seriously very difficult to stay away. I was too tied up for the last 3-4 days – paapi pet ka sawaal hai. When I came back today, I saw the comments swell from close to 600 to 1100. I am sure I have missed a lot. Would definitely catch up at leisure.
Although I don’t comment too often, I do read almost everything posted here and haven’t missed much in at least last six months to an year. You are one of the reasons why I come here and there are quite a few others too.
I would try to participate more. Waiting for a new blog from Mr. Sharma.
BTW, waiting for the results of the assembly elections seems like an eternity.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
I found this article interesting, that is why I posted the link.
Cannot claim the authenticity of the article. By they way
I have tried Jack Daniels once but did not like much.
It was a bit sweet for my liking. Though now a days here in
Dubai it is very famous among youngsters. People of
my age in my group we prefer Chivas 18 years or black label.
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
You would be hard pushed to find either of those in a PUB in the UK.
You will have no difficulty in finding them at T3 Heathrow. These are export brands, much liked in India and Japan, but not known in the UK.
Pub whiskies are Teachers, Famous Grouse, White & mckay and Glenfiddic, etc
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
I believe in ” tu nahi aur sahi aur nahi aur sahi ” I will never have problem in such places .
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Jack Daniels tastes a bit corny to me!! it is I think made from corn… and a bit too sweet for me. Lies unattended in my bar…
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Yes, they do make it from corn.
Try it with Coke and you may like it. I prefer Absolut – the vodka, however.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Yes Absolut vodka is also a very good drink.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Between u and me.
My wife would be visiting Dubai on her way back from London mid-April. She would be there with our son 12 yrs. I am not traveling on this trip. Is there something you’d suggest for them to see/do that is normally not there on travel magazines/websites?
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
They should try desert safari. I am sure
both your wife and your son will enjoy
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Thanks. It’s there on their “to do” list along with a visit to Gold and Spice souk, visit to the Dubai Mall and Burj Khalifa, high tea at Burj Al Arab, a couple hours in Wild Wadi park and a vist to Al Mamzar beach.
Is there anything else that you’d suggest?
Also, is it better (cheaper) to book the desert safari locally or have it pre-booked before thy leave?
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
This will pretty well cover everything. Desert safari would cost about Rs 2000 per person
that includes dinner. And if they have time they should definitely try Ferari World in
If anything required drop me a mail at email@example.com
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Cool… maybe next time …
AshishC Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
Jack Daniels smells like old, very old and repeatedly worn and left unwashed socks
Nothing describes JD better –
Ravi Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
ओक़ से पिला दे सकी गर मुझ से नफरत है
प्याला नहीं देता तो न दे, शराब तो दे
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I wud lov to meet them too … preferably at 2 a.m…
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Of course you can, you are not yet married.
Make hay while the sun shines.
Mamta says “no” to Infosys SEZ request — of course she looks worse than Marxists – Infosys would have brought 5000 high paying jobs, many supporting jobs, tax base, buildings….
Yedurappa says he want to be back as CM..now that his 6 months is over and that the central leadership had promised him tht he will be taken back after 6 months..
“parliament /assembly is supreme”………hahahahahahhahaah
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Mamta has even apologized for her earlier calls of bandhs and has appealed
to massed to foil the strike called on 28 Feb.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
In the nine months since she sent the Left to the cleaners in West Bengal, Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee’s slogan of “Poriborton” is increasingly sounding hollow.
We are sorry for calling strikes in past, never again: Mamata Banerjee
Apologizing for calling strikes and shutdowns during her days as an opposition leader, West Bengal chief minister Mamata Banerjee Monday appealed to the masses to foil the industrial strike called on Feb 28 and assured that the government would take stringent action against those who tried to implement the strike forcefully.
PS: It never pays to support dubious policies and people.
Dont feel left out when wine is being discussed. The other 2 w’s are still there. The Blog is about Wine and women and wealth… So 3w’s zindabad !
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
I think that it was better that wew seperated at birth– the W overs would say… And since Vinod Sharma too loves his drinks, he should feel happy at the separation. Under Gen Zia’s rule… it would hae meant 80 lashes !
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
And the person lashing would be perhaps drunk.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Absolut or jack Daniells?
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Absolute Vodka, anyday.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
Like K.L.saigal, who needed to get drunk to sing well.
Why I posted Kabuliwala song-
1. It has universal patriotic theme. If you just listen to the audio, you can not make out any connection with Afghanistan. This song applies for each nation.
2. We have heard from our grandfathers that Afghanis used to be seen in Indian cities selling dry fruits in street. It just shows how ingrained they were in Indian society.
3. This story also highlights the fact that a poor person is always denied justice.
4. Lastly I suddenly had a brainwave about Afghanistan in Indo-Pak relation. Prior the partition Afghanistan was India’s neighbor and looking at Kabuliwala, India was kind of market for poor Afghans to sell their product. The partition of India not only impacted the partitioned nation but also Afghanistan who lost a peace India and got violent pakistan as its neighbor. It is still paying the price for partition just like India and Pakistan.
As far as Ravi is concerned, he belongs to Afghanistan (not literally) that is controlled by Pakistan. Here I mean his hatred for hindus. No one has forgotten how same Afghan Taliban forced hindus-sikhs to wear yellow band, comparable to Nazis diktat to jews to wear ‘Star of David’ band.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
I think we can still be a good market for Afghan products in a manner that they get money directly…. and thus are weaned away from the Taliban.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Rajeev, Ishwar, Vijay Kumar,
let us all join together and start “CHAMAN KI AASHA” for friendship with Afghanistan and Afghans.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:45 pm
I think we can have a
chaman ki aasha
Chaman ke angoor ka nasha !
MOre seriously it can well be a way to improve further our ties with Afghans in case we allow them to open their dry fruit shops in some fo our malls.
By the way their mixed halwa which was a mixture of thousand variety of dry fruits is supposed to be a huge — better that a viagra thing.
Some years back when I had joined my first job, these Afgahns used to create a big street show of this magical halwa, showing how they mixed the dry fruit. To demonstrate its effectiveness on the effects of male potency, they would have an wrought Iron danda– part of a hamam dasta as it was called !
My boss would secretly go there to get a free taste of this halwa… always !
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Afghanistan is victim of pakistani terrorism just like India and other countries. It is important that world have a land link to Afghanistan bypassing Pakistan. It can happen only if India-US and Afghanistan work together and create peaceful secular Balochistan and Sindhudesh.
This chaman ki aasha will find its way thru Sindhudesh and Balochistan.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
Yes, the Afghanis are very nice, honest and courteous people. I had a family staying on rent in one of my flats. I didn’t have a lot of interaction with them as he could barely speak either English or Hindi. However, we used to exchange the desi sweets and nuts.
It’s indeed a shame to have Pakistan for a nieghbour, irrespective of what some Congressis and “Time of India – Aman Ki Asha” say.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Was a gud idea. Got me in a different beat throughout the day.
I still cant get over the idea of the Americans getting embroiled in the Koran burning issue. They tried so hard to build up goodwill. Lot so many soldiers and then frittered it away…
US Army needs etiquette training.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
I believe they hae a gud training program.
This may be a deliberate setup by “extremists” in the US army to cause trouble for President Obama. I read a while ago the fundamentalist right wing in US hates Obama with a passion – alsore that the whole Tea Party movement started as a racial thing, that many rural Americans do not like Obama because he is black. I believe a good number in the army shares the same opinion.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 12:54 am
It’s always a few hooligans who create problems for the society. Be it Quoran burning in Afganisthan or Godhara incident. The society at large pay for the misdeed of few.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:50 am
I agree with your opinion with a proviso.
Godhra train burning was not what you called , “a careless misdeed of a few mischievous miscreants”
They were not a few, they were not careless, they were not miscreants and it was not a misdeed.
It was a well planned, very carefully executed, well manned, well funded terrorist attack on India’s secularism by the ISI through the Dawood gang.
You have to only ask engrich about the details.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 5:32 am
“a careless misdeed of a few mischievous miscreants” :
May be you should check VHP’s confessional statement to the commission about Karsevaks’ molestation of a non-burqa clad girl on the platform just before the incident.
VHP : karsevaks couldn’t have known the girl to be muslim as she was not wearing a burqa.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:20 am
I think you are being ridiculous. The idea should be to detach communities from individual acts of terror or group acts of terror.
Unfortunately the very handling of Godhra by COngress– trying to blame the Kar sewaks, calling it suicide etc are inflammatory. The Bannerji commission was a fixup which only divided Gujarat more. It inflames passions that Congress and its supporters will absolve all terrorists for votes… or will never never punish culprits in case they are Muslims.
This is so ridiculous because it somehow puts the blame of indiviual acts of terror on all Muslims and wrong because most Muslms are NOT involved. It is like callign 26/11 an RSS controversy as Digvijay, Antulay and Burney tried to do.
I have even heard Farha Naqvi on TV calling it a deliberate act of train burning by RSS to provoke riots. Well you can believe all the Hans Christian Anderson styled COngress fairy tales— but remain away from the truth.
And of course you must be seeing the RSS hand in the Koran burning in Afghanistan. Did you?
What about the Iraq entry by George Bush. I am sure VHP and RSS were there too.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:45 am
Lots of emotional out-pouring.
It’s good to take stances in life.
But one push by a rowdy karsevak from your reserved seat or foul comment at your womanfolk might change your opinion about KARSEVAKS for all times to come.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:15 am
This is the serious problem we are facing.
Either justify the terrorists actions or look for
People like you have made a joke of 62 innocents died in train burning like Engrich
makes joke of 26/11 and 9/11.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Are we disputing something ? Please check official records.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:13 am
It is yet to be fully established who these mischievous elements were.
Whoever they were/are are indeed a misdeed.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:46 am
We are commenting only on VHP’s own affidavit. Nothing else.
We had a discussion on Kashmir here.
George Joseph who covered the Kashmir militancy in 1990s for Indian Express passed away today. Many of you may remember that he was a target of many extremist groups who threatened his life if he did not leave the valley. He did not leave, and continued to report in spite of repeated life threats from outfits ike Hizbul Mujahuddin.
His body is flown to Kerala for burial in his ancestral village.
George is a patriot… What about Yedurappa/Congress?
Looks like Yedurappa is mulling joining Congress; Congress is having high level discussions whether to induct him in!
Only in India! George Joseph/Yedurappa; Sandeep Unnikrishnan/Mohamed Fiyaz!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:44 am
the loss of George Joseph at such a ridiculously young age is irreparable to Indian journalism as well as the nation itself. You are right, he was a fearless patriot. I am sure Bharat Mata will bless him in heaven.
As for Yeddy, from a minor modern day Bhageerath, who brought the BJP ganga to Karnataka, he is now reduced to being looked upon as a joker, as a man who has completely lost touch with reality. He can now be called Yeddy Murphy of Karnataka. Only, unlike the Hollywood original, he is spitting fire every time he opens his mouth.
A glass of water has no colour. But a deep sea with the same water is a brilliant blue. Why is this so?
This was the question that C.V. Raman asked himself in 1921 on seeing the colour of the Mediterranean sea from a ship. He immediately began to conduct experiments on board the ship using some simple instruments he had with him. At that time, scientists believed the sea was blue because it reflected the colour of the sky, but Raman found that it was the water itself that caused blue light to scatter more than other colours in light.
A lot of discussion is ongoing for alcohol in different AVATARS. Certainly can participate there, but do not feel like joining it. Your mention of Mediterranean sea, brought the famed blue fin Tuna in my mind. Good numbers of documentaries show the human tendency of greed and predatory nature. This species is in real danger of extinction because of overharvesting. A prime tuna catch was auctioned for more than 20000.00 dollars in Japan, world’s fishing Wall street.
Anonymous Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
You have raised a very pertinent point. I had touched upon it in the previous blog. Here what I had posted. Not sure whether you had the opportunity to read. There were 3 responses (the respondents were not as pessimistic as I was). See if this is worth discussing further to address your concern about greed and predatory nature of man.
Poverty and the Return of the Licence-Permit Raj
This is in response three posts
1) Poverty / deprivation in the USA by Shan
2) Two youngsters try to live on Rs. 26 per day….. by Mahesh
3) Gopi blaming two former Prime Ministers for the poverty in India.
Imagine the whole world were to have the standards of consumption as prevalent in the USA vis-a-vis food and non-food resources.
Every country / society is aspiring to have the same standards is besides the point.
The questions -
1) Would there be enough food and other resources to go around?
2) In how many years (not centuries) will it take this planet to become barren and see the end of the world as we know it?
3) Will the powerful countries exterminate the weaker ones to get hold of the resources in order to sustain their own?
I wonder, if there has been any study say by FAO as to what is the optimum number people this planet can support indefinitely at some X level of nourishment for them to remain healthy.
In an earlier blog I had posted a link regarding food shortages
As of today, the world population is close to 7 billion. The earth cannot support an infinite number of people.
Has the time come or likely to come in the very near future for the world to start rationing the world’s resources in equitable and restrictive manner – shades of our own much maligned Licence-Permit Raj or communism?
Just one example to show how the resources in India are being wasted. Just go around see the number of vehicles in Second-hand/Pre-owned Car Showrooms across all major cities/towns. The cars there would be good for another at least 4 to 5 years at least. As of now there not enough buyers. In the “good old days” in India, cars was a luxury and the family managed with one car for a lifetime.
My issue was not with the specific PMs, but their policies – I do admire Shrimathi Gandhi for her guts and Nehru for his commitment to democracy.
Regarding wastage – I sense the world is aware of limits, finnacial meltdown has made westerners “save” and not to waste. Indians never wasted stuff, even if they squandered on expensive jewellry etc.
I am of the firm opinion that new stuff will be discovered/invented to take care of population induced problems. “Malthusian theory” has been discarded..Look at India — isnt its uplift (partly due to lot of educated people to perform outsourcing tasks) a result of population rise? Did India and China go bananas due to population rise? Of course, there should be decrease in the rate of growth, which China is pursuing aggressively, and India thru persuasion.
Trees were at peril because of the over usage of paper.. Now the “print” industry is in decline with other forms taking its place.
I agree that as custodians of this earth we should be quite cognizant of limits, sustainability etc. At a micro level actions should be taken to prevent examples such as our bureaucrats/politicians converting agricultural land into high rise shopping centres
@ManoharT , Nature has its own way of controlling population. More people , MORE POVERTY STRICKEN PEOPLE, More infant mortality , malnutrition , malaria , lack of drinking water , Hepatitis , cholera , food will all lead to natural way of keeping population down. Also Competition for resources will lead to maoist, seccesionist , be it khalistami , kashmiri, kamtapuri(that is north bengal)
or gorkhland , and then HUMAN TRAFFICKING IT IS INEVITABLE
As for USA are you aware ORANGES were left to rot in open fields of the size of a small state , JUST SO THAT THE PRICES OF ORANGE JUICE CONCENTRATE do not go down.
Scientific American did publish an article ?1yr ago, whereby a SIX story huge car park size concrete building can produce enough food in PLASTIC TRAYS to sustain 1000 people .Solar energy being harvested at the same time
1. Man has a great survival instinct and is very innovative. We may see in future
a technology which will produce more food from the fertile land and probably from
infertile land also.
3. If we see serious shortage of food/water then powerful countries will exterminate
smaller one to survive. Initially they well use money power and latter their weopons.
Fittest and powerful ill survive.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 27th, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Wrote a lengthy reply to you. Do not see it here. Do not have inclination to write again, but agree with you in broad sense. Man is greedy and predator by nature…..
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 1:10 am
There is something wrong with Disqus today. Look like HT has employed IT staff based on reservation policy.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 5:31 am
I would loved to read your detailed reply.
BSP deeply corrupt. BJP uses Ram to get votes. ” Congress will not run government” any choice for Indian voters??
Open to Accepting BSY After Careful Examination: Cong
This is up your street
Nitin Gadkari’s move to stitch a BJP-Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) postpoll pact in Nagpur Municipal Corporation is a pathbreaking feat for the Sangh Parivar that has been painting the ‘communal IUML’ as ‘the political descendant’ of Pakistan’s Muslim League and Muhammad Ali Jinnah – pet hates for destroying the Sangh’s ‘Akhand Bharat’ dream. The BJP lot could never stop attacking the Congress for aligning with the same IUML in Kerala. Since the Nagpur BJP-IUML live-in is happening under the nose of the RSS headquarters, maybe it is time L K Advani asked his RSS/BJP colleagues what all the fuss was about his Jinnah statement.
Meanwhile, some wonder if Gadkari will now plan the BJP’s ‘great leap forward’ to Kerala’s Malappuram, riding on the IUML – the most special among the ‘Friends of the BJP’!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:25 am
It must be a local municipal election alliance. There was no mention of it in the news here.
There is no political advantage for IUML in joining with BJP here because BJP is quite small here, except in two constituencies where they were a close number 2 /number 3 in the last elections.
What I think (or should) happen in Kerala is the Marxist party renaming itself as Kerala people Party (or something like that) and fighting elections with BJP> Marxists lost 20 seats for less than 3000 votes, an aalliance with BJP could have averted that.
btw you should read up on Malappuram, especially the population growth in that district vis-a-vis other districts in Kerala. Malappuram had four additional assembly seats (based on the census), all the four went to Muslim League/UPA.
Malappuram was the first appeasement to Muslims in independent India ….
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Does the level matter?
The point being made is that for power, parties (not the BJP alone) are amenable to sleep with the enemy (real, imaginary or manufactured). As they say, there are no untouchables in politics.
Thanks for the insight into the ground realities in Kerala – re: IUML and the BJP. I will look up Malappuram.
As veteran finance minister Pranab Mukherjee is set to present yet another Union Budget, some sad thoughts are also being spared by some Ficci mandarins for their ‘hopelessly lost’ once-upona-time-Delhi-inspiration-turned-Bengali-tragic-comedy hero, Dr Amit Mitra – Mamata Banerjee’s hand-picked finance minister of postcommunist West Bengal. It has been quite a while since Mitra entered Writers’ Building to “rebuild the communist-ravaged Bengal economy” with a practical demo of the theoretical pro-reform crusade he had waged as the ex-Ficci boss as well as a former student of Dr Manmohan Singh. But for nine months now, Mitra has not got time, or is not gifted an occasion by Mamata, to present West Bengal’s first non-communist budget in 34 years. On the contrary, Dr Mitra now risks the ignominy of being the longest-serving finance minister without a budget for his state or a budget presentation to his credit. Can we call this some sort of perestroika?
I feel sorry for Dr. Mitra, what a waste of talent.
AshishC Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 5:58 am
don’t feel sorry for Dr Mitra. IMO, he jumped into this with his eyes open.
TMC has no talent pool- unless aging actors and actresses and singers and painters count as talent- pretty useless to run the affairs of a state.
Now, as for the perestroika- yeah, sure. Why not? A budget is so passe’.
I am looking forward to Derek O’Brien coming on TV and starting his justification with “my leader, Miss Mamata Banerjee…”
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:38 am
Who needed any brains to be in politics. And whether the brainy ones used them well. The CPM had some of the best brains– just the wrong policies and convictions and a lack of ability to see that communist means of production had been rejected by the erstwhile SOviet bloc and the Chinese bloc– from 80’s onwards, when Deng started emulating the Singapore model of growth and Gorbachev began the perestroika.. Yet they kept prescribing the same–strike-gherao-ban and eject capital policies.
Ronald Reagan was a duffer who went to sleep in meetings and Jimmy Carter the hard working boy. Reagan delivered for America… Carter has been rated a failure.
Dont expect big things from Mamta. But hopefully Mamta’s non action will at least usher in free markets and revive small businesses as the stint of PV Rao did. But can Dr Mitra emulate MMS of 1992?
As an adminstrator— she would be a failure, given her perpetual emotional hysteria. But maybe the youth of Paschim Banga start looking at narayan murthy and Azim Premji as heroes instead of Mao and Marx. Or at least see that Deng won over Mao and Marx was good for land reform but maybe not good for producing cars and computers.
That is my fond hope…
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:21 am
Vijay Kumar, Ashish,
having aged actors, quiz masters, painters, ex-cricketers etc is a congress legacy Mamta di has brought forward.
having a talent pool for tapping into success in development needs boldness and keen awareness of history, like Narasimha Rao showed. If you remember, He had requested H.M.Patel, the aged finance minister in Morarji Dersai’s ministry to become his FM, but on his declining the offer, he caught MMS on the rebound.
What, therefore, Mamta needs is boldness of the same order, to pull Pashchim Banga up from its boot straps.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:41 am
True. Boldness of approach. Ability to see the writing on the wall.
AshishC Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:54 am
Vijay, oh, Vijay…
Mamata is going to outdo the left in thuggery, intellectual bankruptcy and general “if you can screw it up, I can do it too; but call it screw down for a change…” kind of populism.
Just you wait, ‘enry ‘iggins, just you wait…
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:03 am
You are right. He jumped with his eye open.
Please do not give me nightmares by mentioning Derek OB’rien or any other Mamata’s ‘blue’ mouthed boys and girls
Whenever they are on a panel discussion, I switch channels.
Thankfully, in the last few days, they have refused to come on TV channels – cannot keep defending the indefensible for ever. Can you?
I had asked question earlier – what crime did the people of Poschim Bongo commit in their previous lives to deserve the Comrades and ‘Poriborton’ Didi?
BTW: Can we translate Poriborton (Pari Bartan) – Fairy Vessel, whatever it signifies?
AshishC Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:59 am
“what crime did the people of Poschim Bongo commit in their previous lives to deserve the Comrades and ‘Poriborton’ Didi?”
The answer lies in, and now, I hesitate, if but fleetingly, in a book written by a diminutive anglophile Bong, much vilified on this blog. It is called Atmaghati Bangali- Suicidal Bengalis.
Some day, we will discuss that book.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:18 am
There is Mamta and there is Jayalalitha.
Jaya is laser focused, action/results oriented.
DMK, without anything to fight against, has started complaining that she is insulting Tamil, Dravidian culture etc. They do not know that the train has left the station.
Her white skin, her Hindi skills etc should help her coalition partner, most probably BJP, in campaigning in North India for the Lok Sabha elections.
Ek bar bheegi ankhone dil se shikayat ki,
“ANSUONKA bojh keval hum hi kyu uthaye?”
Dil ne muskurate huye jawab diya, “SAPNE kisne dekhe the?”
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:23 am
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:26 am
Three stupid stages of life
1. Have energy
2 Have time
3.But no money
1 Have energy
2 Have money
3 But No time
1 have money
2 have time
3 But no energy
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:09 am
Very good one.
Confession of a stupid”””””””””’
I, a doctor, an AIIMS graduate, a Consultant appointed in UK at at mere age 32, would like to confess, father.
Last year, while sailing on the Atlantic, someone posed a question – why is the water blue? I replied casually- it reflects the colour of the sky.
Today through the link posted by Manohar below, I realise it is because of the Raman effect.
It is 6 am here in UK, I need to make some sweet lassi to mask the taste of the bitter humble pill I have swallowed. What a blog
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:25 am
compared to Dr.Mitra’s status of being in deep shit in Kolkatta, Dr. Mishra’s score of zero on Raman effect in London is insignificant.
Relax, Dr. Mishra, enjoy oyur health drink.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:36 am
As they say, one is never too old to learn!
btw I learned two facts which I was not aware before — 1) two British generals who lost to George Washington during the American war of independence came to Hyderabad after they lost (in 1760s ) and served as generals for Nizam. 2) One of the East India Company’s administrators in Madras, Ehud Yale, settled in Connecticut, USA after his retirement. He gave all his savings to start a college, which later became the famous Yale University. Yale, while he was the administrator in Madras, started the Stanley Medical College and Hospital.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:40 am
oops, it is Elihu Yale, not Ehud Yale.
Ten years can be a lifetime in today’s here-and-now world. Ten years after the Gujarat violence, the state claims to have moved on. Relative peace and the engine of enterprise have taken the state into another orbit. Its Chief Minister Narendra Modi is being seen in some quarters as a potential Prime Minister, a role model of good governance. But what of those who were caught in the vortex of violence? Have they been able to move on? Have they achieved any sense of closure? Have the scars of a divided society healed?
Let’s begin our journey to find some answers in the town where it all began: Godhra. For the residents of Signal Falia, a Muslim ghetto near Godhra railway junction, February 27th 2002 is a morning they will never forget. A majority of the 94 accused of burning the S6 coach of the Sabarmati Express, leading to the death of 59 Kar Sevaks, were from the dusty by-lanes of Signal Falia. Inayat Jujhara was an elderly government clerk who spent nine years in jail under POTA till he was acquitted last year. The nine years were like an eternity for him and his family who now run a small provision store in the area.
Sixty three of the Godhra accused were acquitted last year. But for many it was a case of too little, too late. Siddiq Bakkar pushed a trolley on Godhra railway station when he was picked up and jailed. He was acquitted of all charges six years later, but by then, his life had changed. His 18-year-old son gave up his computer studies to do manual labour in the area.
Siddiq has got his freedom. 31 others, however, were convicted by the lower court, awaiting appeal in higher courts under stringent non-bailable anti-terror laws. Naseem Medha’s husband Siraj is facing the death sentence. Raising four children, she insists her husband is innocent, but doesn’t have the resources to fight a long, legal battle. Her ten-year-old son Amir was born in 2002, months after the train burning.
Most accounts of that day have maintained that the train burning was preceded by stone-pelting and scuffles between the Kar Sevaks and the local mobs from Signal Falia. Whether the fire was a pre-planned conspiracy or an accident has never been fully established and remains the subject of some dispute. Whatever caused the fire in the S6 coach, Signal Falia and its residents have been tarred with the brush of terror for life.
In the gritty by-lanes of Signal Falia, the signs of an uncared neighbourhood abound. Overflowing gutters and litters everywhere. A number of the young here are unemployed. No one, they say, will give you a job if Signal Falia is your address. The anger and discontent at being edged out of Gujarat’s growth story is palpable.
The only time the young of Signal Falia break out into a smile is when they talk cricket.
Signal Falia’s alienation can be contrasted with the hustle and bustle in the rest of Godhra. A communally sensitive town, Godhra has always had an unofficial border that separates Hindu areas from Muslim mohallas. But after a decade of peace, most traders we meet insist that business is breaking religious boundaries. Godhra too wants to be on the growth engine with a new Ram-Rahim model of business seen as the way forward.
But is it really possible for Godhra to bury its past when one part of the town still feels targeted and neglected after 2002? It’s a question I pose to the BJP’s Rajesh Chauhan, the president of the Godhra municipal council. “People want to forget,” he says, “including the Muslims.”
But forgetting February 27 is easier said than done for those who really suffered. I am now in Ahmedabad, the city of my birth, where I have many happy memories. My adult memories though were shaped by what I saw on Feb 28th and the days that followed. Ten years later, I am back to revisit the very places that were torn apart by communal violence.
In Ahmedabad, I meet up with the families of those who died in the train burning. In the Vastral suburb, we meet Prafulla Behn Soni who lost her husband Mansukh Bhai and son Jassal in the S6 fire. Aged and alone, the tears flow easily.
At Ahmedabad’s Rabari colony, we meet Janak Panchal, who lost his cousin Shailesh and Vilas Jadhav, who lost his father Sadashiv. They are more direct: they can neither forgive nor forget.
In the narrow streets of Shahpur’s Nagorichowk in the walled city of Ahmedabad, neighbours turned against neighbours. Small incidents of rioting were not unknown in this congested area where Hindus and Muslims live cheek by jowl. But Feb 28th was very different in its scale and intensity.
Ten years later, there is calm on the surface. But the urban buzz here can be deceptive. The police presence is a constant reminder of the area being a tinderbox. The home of Abdul Hamid, who has a small neon sign business, was destroyed by his neighbours. Today he’s rebuilt his home, but the fear factor hasn’t left him.
So why doesn’t he leave Nagorichowk? “Where else can we go? We don’t have money to go anywhere else,” he says.
On the other side of the road, where the Hindu wagri community lives, the response is equally sharp. Bharat Bhai Dantani still says it’s the others who start the violence.
A home rebuilt on one side of the road barely a few metres away from their Hindu neighbours. Divided by religion but still sharing the same physical space. The one thing that unites Hindu and Muslim in Shahpur is the desperate lack of basic facilities.
But even Shahpur’s overflowing toilets appear tolerable when compared with what we witness in the resettlement colonies on the outskirts of the city. These colonies came up to house the poorer Muslim families who had run away from the riot hit areas. One such colony, Citizen Nagar, has been created bang next to Ahmedabad’s largest garbage dump. Large families crowded into small tenements, the living conditions are sub-human.
Nadeem Saiyad, a carpenter, talks of the lack of facilities. “We survived being killed during the riots; now we are subject to the slow poison (of the garbage dump),” he says.
The womenfolk of Citizen Nagar are even more forthright in telling us how they feel like second class citizens, erased from the imagery of a Vibrant Gujarat.
Citizen Nagar has almost fallen off the map. Not so Naroda Patiya, an Ahmedabad suburb and scene of the worst massacre of 2002. 95 people lost their lives in the violence here, many of them killed by locals who they knew well. The killers still live in the immediate vicinity, but that has not stopped the likes of Shakila Bano from returning to their homes. Shakila, a seamstress, lost eight members of her family in the violence, including her mother and brother. Today, she is a key witness in the Naroda Patiya case, determined to bring the killers to justice.
The biggest impediment to getting justice for riot victims like Shakila, says Abdul Shamshad, a young activist lawyer, is the lack of faith in the police. Post-2002, Gujarat’s police force stands totally discredited in the eyes of the minorities. “All those arrested in POTA were Muslims, be it encounter killings or other cases. There is no faith in the police,” says Shamshad.
Many of the accused in cases like Naroda Patiya are Vishwa Hindu Parishad activists. Today, the VHP office in central Ahmedabad wears a deserted look, its leadership marginalized by its own BJP government. But the VHP’s office bearers still espouse the action-reaction theory to justify the 2002 violence.
Ashwin Patel, general secretary of the VHP in north Gujarat, says, “The violence (of 2002) was the reaction of the Hindus, not just the VHP.”
But beyond the trauma and antagonisms of riot-scarred areas like Naroda Patiya, there is another Gujarat – a new Ahmedabad, geographically divided with very few mixed neighbourhoods, but economically upwardly mobile. For the new generation of Amdavadis, the scent of economic opportunities has meant that they don’t want to look back at the past with anger but fast forward to the future with hope.
I meet up with the young professionals of a knowledge process outsourcing company. Their upbeat mood symbolizes the mindset of a state in economic overdrive. They don’t want to think of the past, they just want to move ahead. They see Modi as a role model. One of them says even Hitler was targeted. They also admit there are two Ahmedabads, but that they only want rapid growth.
In Vadodara too, one finds unmistakable signs of ambition, this time on the cricket field. The Baroda Sports Club has thrown up the Pathan brothers, Irfan and Yusuf, sons of the muezzin at the local mosque, who’ve become household names in the last decade. Their coach Mehendi Sheikh is still working overtime to create the next generation of the Pathans.
Chief Minister Narendra Modi, the man who has dominated Gujarat’s skyline over the last decade. The Modi government’s latest buzzword is sadbhavana or harmony. But is sadbhavana anything more than just a clever slogan or simply an attempt at an image makeover by a clever chief minister in an election year?
Meet Zakir Sacha, a former government employee, who shared a platform with the chief minister during Modi’s high profile sadbhavana yatra. He was one of the few Muslims to publicly endorse Modi. What made him do it?
To understand what Modi needs to really do to win Muslim hearts and minds I meet Dr J S Bandukwala, a retired professor from Vadodra’s MS University. Dr Bandukwala’s house was destroyed in the riots. Today, he has a message for the Chief Minister.
Conflicting views, contrasting emotions – how does one reconcile them? What would Gandhi have done is a question I have often asked in the last ten years. It’s a question I pose to Chunibhai Vaidya – at 95, possibly the oldest living Gandhian at the famous Sabarmati Ashram.
Question: what would Gandhi have done about 2002?
Vaidya: If he were to come, there would have been no 2002.
Question: How would he have brought reconciliation?
Vaidya: He would have looked beyond religious identity and spoken of universalism.
In quest of an answer to what sadbhavana would really involve, I also invited Dara and Rupa Mody, a Parsi couple, to the Sabarmati Ashram. The Modys lost their teenage son Azhar in the Gulberg Society massacre. His body has not been found and their tragedy was even the subject of a Hindi film, ‘Parzania’. Over the last decade, I have kept going back to them, if only to share their grief.
Ask them about sadbhavana and they speak of how Modi has never ever met them, and how sadbhavana has no meaning for those who lost it all.
In the tears of the Modys, I feel I have found an answer to my quest for reconciliation in post-2002 Gujarat. Wiping the tear from every eye, be they the tears of a Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Parsi. Where a human being reaches out to fellow human beings – surely, that is the true meaning of sadhbhavna. Surely, that is the true message of Gandhi and of God. It’s a message of compassion which a new Gujarat and its leadership need to imbibe.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:44 am
get a life..pray for the dead
engrich Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:35 am
u pray for justice for the victims.who are still living in ghettoos,after 10 years of mascare.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
~~~ HOW DLF IPL AND THE BOARDS LOVE FOR MONEY— killed indian cricket ~~
@ Mohan, Pervez and other cricket lovers.
DLF IPL was good entertainment initially. But you cant have too much of junk food and forget the main course. Unfortunately by giving supermacy to the Profit motive– the board has killed the cricketers ability to compete for the country. And then made them fight amongst themselves…
And remember they have done this to a good team which stayed at NO 1 in Test Rankings– first time in Indian cricket history and also got us the World cup.
The Board thought milking the Indian’s love for the game for personal gain of some of the board members own pockets (like the chariman who owns CHennai Superkings) is more important.
They forgot that armies and sportsmen need to fight for national honour. Money comes later.
IPL which was a good idea once has been stretched to all money making potential– so much so it has become a bore of 70 matches and will NOW BE EXTENDED TO ($ MATCHES.
NATIONAL HONOUR BE DAMNED!
Vijay Mallya made Dhoni insult Harbhajan for selling his Royal Stag whiskey. Dhoni Chennai Superkings’ captain is now at loggerhead with other IPL team captains — Sachin, Sehwag and Gambhir.
IPL and Money making and Mallaya and BCCI moneybags have won.
Indian cricket has lost…
Only Money matters. Who cares about the cricket, cricket lovers or country.
Baap bada na bhaiya
sabse bada rupaiya.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:50 am
true… in this case the heigntened interest of all politicans ot be on cricket boards is truely frightening
What happened to Prahalad?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:01 am
Sanjaydhavan is Prashlad.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:33 am
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:47 am
Prabhat/Prahlad/vinodji have been missing from this blog for long. My take is they are writing spin for Robertji’s impending entry into politics.
Others believe you are the avatar.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:59 am
Is this a feeble attempt to make stories ?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:07 am
it is not a feeble attempt at comedy or at whodunit. The timing is extremely suspect. Coupled to that two of my posts about you/Prahlad/Prabhat made in the last one hour have been censored.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:36 am
definitely annoying !
Besides, somebodyelse too complained about missing posts today.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Pl. don’t take it in the wrong sense. I was just making light of the censoraship, which is now a regular feature of this blog. Rather unfortunate that an otherwise liberal Vinod Sharma should introduce censorship, while giving full freedom to people like engrich and Ravi to abuse Hindus and India.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Hey! Ravi is just fine. Maybe you found his satire a little corny, like Jack Daniel !
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
These guys need labels and classifications to operate here, as they do not discuss issues but the messengers.
Global Oil Prices – Interesting perspective.
Read On at :
Intriguing perspective by Vijay Prashad on Iran ….
Read on at :
(Me thinks, though , Indian and Chinese subjugation could be more of an outcome than the objective).
p.s.: Just in case we see same multiple postings – Disqus is behaving funny today….
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 9:44 am
President Obama will do whatever he can to keep the retail price in US below $4. This may include the release of the Strategic petroleum Reserve, an act that may bring fresh Republican charge of using the reserve for political purpose.
Israel and the American Jewish lobby will force Obama to bomb Iran. He may do it in October ( “October Surprise”) based on the poll numbers. Both Israel and the Jewish lobby are afraid that Obama will ignore Israel if he is reelected in November.
India will not face an internal political issue (from the majority of Muslim voters) if it joins the sanctions mandate, especially if the oil trade goes up with KSA. Muslims of India are predominantly Sunnis, and unfortunately many of them are pro KSA. ‘
The issue with India will be the investment needed to calibrate Indian refineries for Saudi crude. This information should be made transparent so Indian citizens know the cost of aligning with US on sanctions.
Israel is doing everything to create a war including the staged attacks in Delhi, Thailand, and Georgia, I am pretty sure a synagogue will be attacked in US triggering US to war.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:22 am
First – the Oil.
My “template thinking” goes something like this…….
The deflated / deflating / recession affected economies worldwide have actually resulted in lowering the demand. Left to itself – we probably should see the oil prices getting lowered. That leaves something out of equation – which is forward contracts and speculation on oil prices.
Further ahead, add the war like atmosphere related to Iran – the prices surge ahead further anticipating disruption in supply.
The next question that needs to be asked is – who benefits out of this price increase ? Speculators – a definite Yes. Oil corps. – Yes (with a bit of ifs and buts discussed below).
Next look at Iran, this is where the picture gets hoepelessly complicated.
Let’s say – there is a regime change in Iran – do US Oil cos. benefit ? Answer is yes as they too get their share of Oilfields in Iran. However, that comes at certain costs – plus the outcome may not be too clean either , given the involvement of China, India , Russia et al.
A bigger question – are the U.S. Oil Companies going to be benefitted in near future ? We are definitely hitting a grey zone here given the time it would take for these Corps. to adapt to the newly acquired fields. Plus now Iranians are not going to be looking at americans sitting on their oilfields kindly.
Second conflicting aspect is the price of oil itself posing a threat to “recovery”. Higher the prices go – lesser the recovery.
If all this sounds confusing – welcome to the un-certainity. Trust me, the reality is going to be even more complex and confusing.
Beyond the Oil story, add Israel and its strategic insecurity to the whole picture. IMHO, the Israeli part of story weighs much less in comparison to the overall Oil story and hence leaves me somewhat skeptical about the power “jewish lobby” weilds.
Will we benefit from switching over to Saudi ? My sense is , left to itself, no or not much – as it just about amounts to substituting “B” for “A” as a dependancy. Plus , their is the currency aspect as well. However, if the financial blockade of Iran continues – we *probably* could see some disruption in supply and could develop cold feet. Is it fair ? My own sense is no , but then we are not much in a position to be fair as well and won’t even attempt at it unless a radically different political thought holds sway.
p.s.: There is another aspect – if world oil prices fall sharply it will be a double whammy for Iran that will see its own exports income dwindling.
p.p.s. : I am surprised you brought in Indian muslims with all the Shia / Sunni angle here. Let me get a bit rhetorical here in saying what I maintained earlier – over the years we have probably nurtured our communal identities (both Hindu and Muslim) perhaps to the point of overblowing them and making them larger than life.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
For an outsider (to the oil/commodity trade), I don’t see the average oil prices shooting up from the current levels. If at all, they are headed down looking at the state of economy in Europe and the US.
As far as the Iran’s threat of the closing of strait of Hormuz is concerned, it is at the best a “threat”. For all practical purposes, Iran doesn’t have the fire power to match the US and the much talked about threat is primarily for domestic consumption – elections are round the corner.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Agree that the prices should be falling given falling demand in deflated economies. However, speculation does introduces non-linear factors in the equation even at times benefitting from “news”.
Iran’s noises about closing the straits have been just those – noises. My reading is it has been steadfastly avoiding doing something stupid that would give a chance to thrust a war on itself.
BTW, comparison of firepower needs to be looked at in context. If the comparison is direct – then yes Iran is no match. However, if the assessment is for maintaining control over oilfields over longer period , then the whole equation changes drastically.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
When comparing the fire power of the two nations, I wasn’t thinking of control over oilfields (of Iran). I had the “strait of Homruz” in mind. Iran can’t close it or at least keep it closed for long. My understanding says one aircraft carrier of the US Navy should be able to take care of the Iranians, if they decided to go for a mischief.
But, as you say, there are speculators – who are in this business of creating fear – some of those non-existent.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
With all these uncertainties, on personal front, best advice would be
to stay invested in gold . If uncertainties persists gold may go above
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:24 pm
@Mahesh the greatest benefeciary of inflated oil prices will be RUSSIA. Oil prices hasn’t gone down despite recession , IT HAS GONE UP , and that is due the UNCERTAINTY, which the market hates.Saudi is in cahoots with america to see iraq SUBJUGATED.
Wikileaks revealed saudi king exhorting the americans”Chop the snakes head”. Given recent mild protests in saudi arabia by its SHIA minority, which can snowball , because shia or sunni , the average saudi loves the house of saud as teesta setalvad loves modi.
America if it can subdue iran , then it will really be “END OF HISTORY”. I hope it has not escaped your attention , the fact that USA HAS SOLD 25 BILLION DOLLAR WORTH OF AIRCRAFTS.
If IRAN BECOMES CLIENT STATE LIKE SAUDI ,OIL PRODUCTION WILL BE IN THE POCKETOF HALLIBURTON.
Shoeb is totally naive in reading indian muslims.
Iran may be shia , BUT IT IS ISLAM AGAINST YANKS , that unites shias and sunnis , and indian muslims will definitely be aroused
engrich Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
unfortunately many of them are pro KSA. ‘
what is wrong in being pro-ksa.they are providing jobs to millioms of indians.
THIS IS FOR ALL WORSHIPPERS OF BACCHUS:
The Mother Superior called all the nuns together and said to them, ‘I must tell you all something. We have a case of gonorrhea in the convent.’ ‘Thank God,’ said an elderly nun at the back. ‘I’m so tired of chardonay.”
A new hero in Indian cricket has emerged – Virat Kohli. 24 off one over from Malinga – absolutely awesome. I am not a big cricket fan but this inning of Kohli is a delight to watch. He is not out on 122 off 81 balls. India now needs only 18 from 30 balls to win against Sri Lanka with a bonus point to stay alive in the tri-series.
Well played lad. The future of Indian Cricket is in safe hands.
We can let the seniors retire in peace – with no disrespect to anyone.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:37 am
Truely incredible batting !
On my TV set, Dhoni is still looking sad. Same on your TV, Ishwar?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:43 am
I am a migrant worker in Delhi from Ranchi.
No matter how hard I try, I can’t see the same expression on Dhoni’s face as you can. He is my hero!!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:56 am
@ MOhan and Ishwar
Dhoni is my hero too !! I think he just let the IPL inner fights get into him.
Hope he gets his cool and cheer back to get us the No1 ranking and world cup winning form again !
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:02 am
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Almost daily I witness fight over Dhoni between my two sons. Elder one is in favor of
Dhoni and younger does not like him. Today also, elder claimed that because of captain ship of Dhoni India won and according to younger because Dhoni did not bat that was
the reason India won with a bonus point. As far I am concerned, I love all Indian cricketers. Well Sachin slightly more than others.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:45 am
That is not fair. Let us just enjoy the fantastic win.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:38 am
India has now reached the target of 321 set by Sri Lanka in only 36.4 overs. Kohli remained not out at 133 (86).
What a day fro Indian cricket lovers!!
Now that Mr. Shrama is having his day off, you can read Harsh Mander today…
Around half the 200,000 people who fled murderous mobs and burning homes 10 years ago can never return to the lands of their birth. Entire villages have been ‘cleansed’ of their erstwhile Muslim residents.
The seat at the NAC does come at a cost – not too invisible.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
The seat at the NAC does come at a cost – not too invisible”.
I do not get it. Moreover, I don’t understand the reason for telling me this, unless the tiger has changed his ’stripes’ or ……
Since yesterday, there are have been enough comment in the media and discussions on TV about 2002 (less about the actual riots and more about the justice and compassion – rather the lack of them – post 2002), which most of us must have read and watched.
Will discuss this further later in the evening.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
It is quite interesting to watch the seculars crying for justice and….
Few months after Godhra, a group of people assciated with IUML planned and “executed” the “elimination” of Hindu fishermen from the seashore village of Marad, kerala. Several Hindus were killed; no Muslim woman and child was killed, because they were sent to their relatives’ homes by the planners.
Ak Antony was the CM then. However, as a man/leader with integrity, to his credit he said “minorities are resorting to serious crimes and trying to cover/justify them under the constitution ” (I may be wrong on the exact words, but his message was something like this). IUML complained to Sonia Gandhi, and Antony had to resign.
shekhar gandotra Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
I hope strong danda for terrorists is given. Otherwise that Keral faces Jammu and Kashmir like situation will be very bad.
Dr Mishra Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
What ARE you trying to say Ishwar
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Harsh Mander has written this piece for his political masters – no ambiguity there.
Who ever has any way of proving what they claim against Mr. Modi can approach the courts, They were open when I last checked, else, just shut up. This witch-hunt against Mr. Modi stop. Period.
And, I don’t beleive in calling a spade an equipment used to dig or loosen the soil.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Are you trying to say it did not happen?
React to Shekhar, the boy from Jammu, same way.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
It did happen – it had to happen. The issue is whether the incumbent CM the instigator or a supporter. If yes, prove it and hang him. If not, move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
It had to happen ?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
All I can say is perhaps you have not gone through the pain and suffering the victims have gone through, when they lose near and dear ones. I will be damned if you know what ‘insaniyat’ is (*)? I am not surprised at your posting. I recall your ‘murderous’ response to Engrich, which Vijay had hastily asked you to edit in the previous blog.
People in general offer their shoulders and help in wiping the tears of the people (known or strangers) when tragedy strikes them.
Move on!, Sure, you move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
What I edited in the last blog was specifically addressed to Engrich.
Justice must be done. Victims should be helped. Politics must stop.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
Does it matter who you address it you? Apparently it does to you.
And you call yourself Ishwar. What an irony?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Here is something more to revel in and move on.
IPS officers sidelined, punished post-Godhra riots
A number of IPS officers, who refused to toe the government line during the 2002 post-Godhra riots, fell out of favour with the Narendra Modi government and had to face harassment.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Isnt it interesting that these IAS/IPS complaint about Modi/harrassment etc and they never complaint about zillion crore deals their political masters and themselves do. I am yet to see a bureaucrat to come out exposing their department/government misdeeds –
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
“” A number of IPS officers, who refused to toe the government line during the 2002 post-Godhra riots, fell out of favour with the Narendra Modi government and had to face harassment.”"
I agree with this statement. Government line was to stop the rioters
which they did not. Hence, they fell out of favour.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 5:42 pm
… yet the genocide ‘continued’.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
I can’t verify the truth stated there.
Any ways, the first example is of Vivek Srivastava. He was was transferred as DCP (prohibition & excise) in March 2002. Srivastava had arrested a Home Guard commandant with VHP links for his participation in anti-minority riots.
I don’t see any harassment here. Even if there is a case for it, why is it so that Mr. Modi is responsible for it. When the police resorts to a lathi-charge in Ramlila grounds – no one should question Sheila Dixit or Chidambaram, the same yardstick is not used for Mr. Modi. Can you explain why?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
You believe what you want to. I have no problem.
I love M J Akbar.
He is at his best again here:
I have no idea whether the Congress is going to do well or badly, but it was risky to turn the UP poll into the springboard for a Rahul pole vault. It is embarrassing if you huff and you puff and then go through under the bar.
Oh, the wait for the UP results is almost killing me!!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
MJ being a gentleman, couches his points in unhurtful words.
Actually, Rahul Baba has always found it easy to go through under the bar. Just remember the elections to Bihar, kerala and Tamil Nadu assemblies.
~~~WE NEED SPIN FOR ROBERTJI’S ENTRY~~ all bloogers may contribute ~~
Another dynsty icon has expressed his wish to serve India. In am interivew to the TOI, Robertji said yesterday that he wants to make an entry at the right time.
In light of our need to be ruled by dynasities, why dont we find out what the right time is and also suggest reasons why we need him.
All are welcome to give suggestions, especially Congress and dynasty lovers.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Since you are from Goa and love the COngress, a special question. One client from Goa just told me on the phone that this time 50 % Congress election tickets are divided among families of three erstwhile Congress CMs, in the tradition of dynasties. Is it true?
If true then WAh! wah !!wah !!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Don’t expect a reply from Manohar..He goes into silent mode when confronted with difficult questions.
Now Congress is also planning to absorb Yeddy after careful examination..Congressis-Jihadis have fell silent..
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
nepotism will continue as long as the party selects candidates.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Frankly I know deep inside that Indian democracy will only become democractic when Dynasties go.
Gopi, why dont you give us a historical perspective on how the cocept fo dynastic succession dissolved in the west.
In my etes there are only two parties in India without this concept. CPM and BJP.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
And please post it right at the top and not in reply to me, as it would be a nice topic for a new thread.
Well here is a song our Vinodji can then sing on the TV
Congress is ready!
Corruption charges against u were a joke..
woh thi kewal pyaar ki nok jhok…!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
First of all your premise that I am from Goa is completely off the mark. Even if I was, so what and why does it bother you? Your second premise is also way off the mark. Again if I did, so what and why does it discomfort you?
As regards – party nominations going to family members – why are we getting surprised? That is the par for the course for Congress. It is for the voters to decide – whether to reject dynasties / nepotism. If they don’t, there is nothing you or me can do anything about it.
You can carry with the ‘waah waahs’.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
What is Manohar saying “I will discuss only those issues that suit me”…Typical Diggi kind of logic.
I am not surprised at his behavior…Congressis are morally corrupt people.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Only Congressis ‘morally bankrupt”?
Almost all parties are; with very few leaders in these parties above the fray..
even Marxists have fallen in the trap
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
You are right..but I am talking about Congress supporters who are by default 100% morally corrupt. They can never take a neutral stand on any issue.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Well u said u were from Goa..
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
That is news to me. From where do you get details about me, which even I am not aware of?
When did I say that. All I have done here is to post comments and have never discuss myself, whether I am ugly (which I am) or not and what is my favourite colour, whether I am vegetarian or a non-vegetarian, blah, blah, blah.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Let’s be fair to them, Congress has only given one-third of the seats to the family members of past CMs. Others could only be accommodated on NCP tickets (as per media reports).
Wah wah wah wah… any ways!!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
33%b is closer to 50 than it is to zero
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
As you are very obsessed with political dynasties (Congress dynasties to boot), I have a suggestion.
Start an NGO and launch a movement ‘India Against Congress Dynasties’ with Baba Ramdev as the mascot. Hire Ramlila grounds and the rest is easy, I need not tell you how to go about it.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
HOnestly not making fun. Just discussing a serious issue of dyantic succession vs democracy…
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
To me, it seems that your saathidaars had some other motives.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Where is your terrorist Saathidaar today?
Since last 10 years there is no dearth of news for TV and print media, thanks to Modi.
He should claim royalty from these people for keeping them in business.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
you are absolutely right. As Ashok Malik has said in his recent article, this has become an industry. Just imagine NGOs like Teesta Setalvad’s receiving funds from both Saudia and the Vatican to finish Modi off by creating stories and false witnesses like Sanjeev Bhatt.
Malik said, if in the near future Modi were to die, all these pseudos will lose their livelihood.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
To keep these poor people’s livelihood intact, we should ensure that
Modi lives a long life.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
let us contribute to their well being by creating stories engrich style.
Teesta is a worm; in any other country she would have been put in jail.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:29 pm
In any another country Mr. Modi would’ve either been in jail or be facing judicial enquiry already – with victims duly compensated. And yes – there would be no need for Teesta.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
So why don’t you move to that country and ask for justice?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
Just because government at the centre and some selected media think that he is guilty,
that’s is why he should be in jail or a proof is required ? In any other country also he
would have been in jail only if found guilty by court.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
So what if it has become an industry . At least it is not spewing hatred like the ones you subscribe to.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
We see Congress spewing hatred everywhere especially against anyone highlighting its corruption.
What Congress did in UP was another step towards promoting that hatred.
the congress party is casting coy glances at Yeddy,
but the CM whose chair has become shaky is Kiran Reddy
Once again there is a lot of loud noise about Modi
none so passionate as the Rajdeep-Sagarika jodi
UP elections, we are told, are game changers for Yuvraj
if he wins them he will be hailed as the party’s bhagyaraj
Vinodji is too busy with the elections to write a new blog
Poor bloggers, we are left with nothing to flog.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
You should write!
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
also btw, I thought Jagan Reddy will be in jail by now….do you think now that he is threatened he will toe the Yuvraj line, the case will be wiped off, he gets to keep the zillions?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Brilliant..I can see the discomfort of Congressi-Jihadis on this new development..Poor guys..now they will have to defend Yeddy.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
you definitely have the flair.
Gopi, u said Teesta should be in jail. Pl you explain
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
What do you think ? Why should she be in jail ?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Mahesh I believe in thos saboot, or failing that, substantive alegations and info that these allegations are in court.
I hv vaguely heard of exhuming of dead bodies and false afidavits. I hence ask Gopi why he made strong statement she should be in prison. Nothing escapes this sardar, I now wait for GOPI TO ANSWER.
I hv seen video of Sardesai posted by engrich, good, and that vid on Teesta posted by mishraji, disturbing. I quietnow, sad
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
I had read that she had cajoled/manipulated/forced some people to file false affidavits.
Is that not a perjury ?
I had deliberately decided that today I would not initiate any discussion on 2002 and its aftermath, even though it is 10th anniversary of the start of one of the the ghastly chapters in our recent history as I felt nothing new would be said.
However out of the blue, a blogger ironically named Ishwar addresses a post to me (Dr. Mishra and me were/are not sure what his intentions were). After that there were a number of posts re: 2002, generally suggesting – move on, let bygones be bygones.
Should I be surprised that a case is being made out to move on without addressing denial of justice and compassion to the people who have been wronged?
All I can wonder that perhaps the advocates of such mindset have not faced pain and suffering and their near and dear ones have not been raped and slaughtered (God forbid), and worse no justice is in sight for 10 long years.
Is there no iota of ‘insaniyat’ / humanity in them or it has been thrown to to the winds to champion one man? I have never seen such heartlessness and lack of compassion for unfortunate people in a group of people, who otherwise seem to be educated and well-read. All I can do is to pity them.
Those wish to abuse me on this count, go ahead and abuse, then move on.
Those who wish make use other riots such as 1984, 1969, etc. to justify the denial of justice, be my guest and move on.
Those who wish to remain silent and not take a stand , please do so and move on.
Guys, it looks like it is time to move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
I do not think anybody is saying that justice should be denied, compassion should be withheld.
Courts, Special commissions etc are at various stages of probing. Many have been closed, but as you know some people are not happy with the verdict so far.
It is a sad thing that something like that happened, many innocents lost lives and everything else. If 1/3 of the dead are non-Muslims, I find it difficult to project it as a Muslim massacre. But whether it is Muslim, Hindu, or Christian, we should not make their lives worse by segregating, relocating etc.
One relief is that Gujrat has been riot free since the events in Godhra. I am old enough to remember many bad riots in Gujrat happening like a clockwork.
I am afraid that the likes of Teesta, and other “compassionate” people want to grind this constantly that tensions will be triggered again – and if that happens more blood will flow.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:25 pm
Did it ever strike you that several other states have been “riot free” ?
And that , the “riot free” nature Gujarat may precisely have been due to heckling of Mr. Modi by the “Sickular” media.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Gujrat, right from independence, always had periodic Hindu-Muslim riots unlike many other states. In fact, no satte had as many riots as Gujrat. Hence your statement that other states have been “riot free” does not have much meaning.
Gujrat had riots in 1965, 69, 80, 82, 85, 90, 92 — some of them quite major and worse than 2002; with two of them investigated by special judge committees, one by Justice Reddy and the other by Justice Dave.
Hence my statement that Gujrat has been riot free since the post Godhra. And I think it has something to do with the bloody riot, its aftermath, and Mody’s deft handling.
First time in decades, Gujrat had a decade without “any” communal troubles
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Whenever anyone brings up 1984 riots while discussing Gujarat riots, he is immidiately
told that two different riots should not be compared. Should not same logic be applied to riots free states also ?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
This is typical Congressi tactic..If Modi is held guilty for riots then Rajiv Gandhi was more guilty.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:30 am
why does the “sickular” media not heckle Rajiv Gandhi, even when his own complicity was beyond doubt?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
The fight for justice is good but in case of Gujarat, it is politically loaded. The justice should be done to victims of all riots including 2002, 1993 and 1984. Let justice be justice and not political circus.
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
Why does your marker stop at 1984 ?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Because my memory of riots starts from 1984. It was my first experience of riots.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:59 am
It is surprising that the marker stops at 1984. Actually, Modi went as far as back 1714 (2 short of that magic number 300).
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Godhra train burning was a very bad incident. Riots which followed that incident
were worse than that. Who ever is responsible for that should be sevely punished.
If Modi is found guilty, he should be hanged. Till then this demonising of Modi should
stop. Victims should get justice, I wish it happens soon. If wishes were horses…..
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:25 am
And if Modi is found to be non-complicit, not guilty of encouraging the rioters, what then? Will the pseudos fall silent, like they have in respect of 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom?
Mahesh Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
There is another terrible aspect at play here.
We all tend to forget the complicit nature of “state” and reduce the problem to be between Hindus and Muslims.
A state stooping down to this level – which is what happened in 2002 – is never never forgivable.
If state goes down – there is no hope. For nobody.
In that sense we must congratulate Mr. Modi. He has already won the propoganda war.
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
‘ reduce the problem between Hindus and Muslims ‘
Was Modi responsible for this or Gujarat was always infamous for this?
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
According to Congressis there was no Gujarat and Gujratis before Modi..
engrich Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
yes but this is not first time.deshbhakts started this game from 1969.69 riot was as brute a that of 2002.more than 1000 people were murdered by deshbhakts.media and gverment ignored this.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:18 am
I find it very puzzling, People, certain people, are baying for blood of Modi as if he is responsible for the riot. Did he arrange for Godhra carnage? Did he orchestrated subsequent riots?? did he instruct policeman to not shoot hindu rioters???. I believe, all the answers are emphatic NO. He could not control the riots, as I believe, no body can, when passions are really aroused. Just read Freedom at midnight, and you will realize, about helplessness of state in situation of mob frenzy. Recent London riots are another example. Gujrat is amongst few states, or may be a leading state, in terms of good governance amongst pygmies. Where he has failed, is certainly in ameliorating hardship of riot victims. It is none of his business to improve their lot, artificially, by huge doles, better than what it was before riots, this task falls to individual s themselves, but he should have tried to restore their economic well being to pre riot situatin, irrespective of religious affiliations. That is the minimum he could have done. This single lapse may preclude his chance to work at Center.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:39 am
The way Modi is being projected as if he himself on 28Feb 2002 went on the streets
on a horse carrying a sword and started killing Muslims till 1Mar 2002 for all
full three days.
I will reiterate that the Gujart riots were worst of its kind and guilty should be punished
severely. If it is Modi, he should be hanged. Meanwhile please stop demonising him.
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:34 am
Pankaj and Mohan,
The argument is about failure and break-down of state – actually to the point of its participation and abetting in the communal rioting. As I have said earlier – Modi has indeed won the propoganda war by deflecting the debate away from complicit nature of state. Notice, for instance, your own arguments are centered around Mr. Modi and not Mr. Modi the Chief Minister ?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:46 am
Participation and abetting ? This is where
we do not agree. You have your views of
that horrible incident where sadly many innocents died and I have mine.
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:50 am
OK. We agree on disagreement.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:21 am
Mahesh, I am curious to know, why your sense of the history of the complicity of the state stops at 2002 and doesn’t go back to the earlier, more violent and more numerous anti Sikh pogrom?
If you have cared to read the post by Praveen Saxena in this blog itself, you will know that the state was actively involved by being totally absent from the scenes of massacre for three full days. And later, the state took care of the sardars in police and government posts.
Do you care o “feel” about the state absenteeism?
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:24 am
In the past on this forum alone I have repeatedly pointed out instances outside and before 2002. So your reading of my sense of history is rather self serving convenience.
I am sure you understand what the context of discussion was and yet your choice was to bring 1984 in a rather pavlovian fashion. Don’t you think precisely these kind of sought cancellations tend to steer the debate from state’s secular characteristics to sectarian communal argument ?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:23 am
I agree. Now let us move on.
Ravi Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
I would like to say the CLOSURE has not taken place, until it does I will find it difficult to move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:41 am
where is closure in the anti-Sikh massacreof 1984?
Let there be closure by stripping Rajiv Gandhi of his Bharat Ratna.
The talk about CLOSURE.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:56 am
‘CLOSURE’ in an unknown concept according to Hindutvawadis, the ’self appointed guardians’ of our great culture and traditions.
So how can there be one? Now, move on.
Great news. A woman tax officer caught accepting bribe of Rs.1500 and jailed for
Three years. Because of such incidents there is no corruption in India.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:13 am
women are not only corrupt, they corrupt men.
Let us say no to bribing women.
GODHRA , RETROSPECT, INTROSPECT , CIRCUMSPECT
A NON EMOTIONAL SCIENTIFIC APPRAISAL.
First the facts , 55 Hindus were burnt alive in a train coach.
Mistake 1. The muslims should have immediately carried a procession condemning the incident and showing their anguish, like the one after Kasab carnage. This would have changed the atmosphere alltogether
Mistake 2. Narendra Modi should have WARNED that anybody thinking of reprisals will be dealt severely.
BUT HE DID THE OPPOSITE
There is TV footage , where he is seen howling “MERE DIL ME GODHRA KA AAG JAL RAHA HAI”
The above is the ONLY evidence on the basis of which he can be CONVICTED FOR INCITING RELIGIOUS HATRED. But india being a third world country with third grade lawyers , are impotent. This is exactly how the rioters in recent london riots were nabbed and CONVICTED
All other charges does not stand in a court of law , UNTIL PROF RAMACHANDRAN
comes up with a scanner which will extract the thought diary of modi during post godhra riot.
Also blaming MODI only will be like treating Meningitis with plaster of paris.
THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS DEEP SEATED HATRED OF HINDUS TOWARDS MUSLIMS IN GUJRATI SOCIETY(reasons , historic eg SOMNATH, recent , IDI AMIN (a muslim nutter ) and the exodus of gujratis from Uganda.
It is almost like Racism in Uk
Tory politicians stoke it all the time , in fact it comes handy during elections “The race card”. They are able to do , BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE WHITE FOLKS .WANT
Labour party introduced “Council forRacial Equality”. in 1975. There was massive racism during 1980-1995.
The people who can change people’s mind are the ARTISTS , be it popular arts or Icons in every field.
Artist by the way of sattire make hatred worthy of an imbecile .
My personal feeling is , the serial ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES had profound impact on race relations.
Similar effort can only change the mindset.
IT IS IRONIC IT HAPPENED IN THE LAND OF MAN MOHAN DESAI ,( must be turning in heaven ,) whose all film had the central theme of JOHN JOHNY JANARDAN .Also SUMMARY trial of modi and subsequent conviction WILL POLARISE AND DEEPEN THE HATRED OF HINDUS , it will be seen as Gujrati Ashmita trampled upon.
The problem of Islam is the pigheadedness.
They should calmly analyse , and they will see THE REAL CULPRIT ARE THE ARSONISTS of Godhra. Without that incident the riot would not have been assumed such proportions. Why I say this , because i see PATHETIC attempt by Muslims to dissociate the two , with clumsy explanation , such as altercation with tea vendor(WHY THAT PARTICULAR COACH)
ALSO IN ISLAM THERE IS NO CONCEPT OF FORGIVENESS UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY”Lord forgive them for they do not know what they are doing”
There is only BADLA in Islam.
It is not that MURDERERS have not been brought to justice.
Bilkis Banu’s RAPIST have all been convicted AND THEY ARE NOT HAVING DINNER AT NAGPUR HQ.
The husband of Bilkis Banu stood by her thick and thin .THIS CAN ONLY HAPPEN IN ISLAM . With ISHWAR < MISHRA ET AL, THE WOMEN FOLKS UNDER SIMILAR
CIRCUMSTANCES UNDERGO HONOUR SURGERY ,
Well THEY AFTER ALL HAVE SEEN SITA UNDERGO THE SAME AT THE HANDS OF THEIR SO CALLED GOD RAM
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Very rational explanation. I wish fake seculars and right wingers use logic instead of fake emotions.
engrich Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
Mistake 1. The muslims should have immediately carried a procession condemning the incident and showing their anguish, like the one after Kasab carnage. This would have changed the atmosphere alltogether
as per fir pumps to extinguish fire in compartment were brought by muslims and it is they who extinguished fire of compartment..riot was preplanned so the fire was.first riot which rss perpetuated to take over gujat happened in 1969.which was as brutal as riot of 2002.
a small incidence i am narrating here,the house of a muslim widow was put on fire when she came out of her house with her three children,police hold the woman and her three childrens were thrown in the fire in front of her by deshbhakts.she lost her voice. indira jee brought her to delhi,paraded her.but no action was taken against deshbakhts or policeman.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:34 am
Were you there in Godhra on that day? If not, stop bullshitting.
According to your 9/11 was done by jews.Isn’t it?
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:24 am
it is there in FIR.u can check.can phone police or goverment about authenciticty.
sept 11 was done by jews otherwise why there is no local arrest or enquiry.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:26 am
the British whom you worship, are the same rulers who killed 3 million Indians in your homeland, Bengal during the great famine, are no better than the Indians who killed and burned each other in Godhra and rest of Gujarat.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:16 am
“The muslims should have immediately carried a procession condemning the incident and showing their anguish”
It would have been great. However, read on.
1) The coach was set on fire in the morning.
2) The bodies of the victims were brought to Ahmedabad and taken in procession the same night.
In the intervening period, did anyone from the administration contact the community leaders to do what you have suggested? Not to my knowledge. Even if so, did the community leaders refuse to condemn and take out a procession. All that happened that the Gujarat Government would support the bandh called by the VHP/BD.
By the time (next day) the community must have realised as to what happened, it was too late – the Operation-Teach-Them-A-Lesson was in full swing.
Moreover, how were innocent people (who had nothing to do with the incident) to know that they would be targeted?
BTW:Someone forgot to mention the Battles of Panipat while comparing …………
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
Point 2 is a lie.
The SIT report would tell you the true story as and when it is made public. It also explains the reason for bringing the bodies to Ahmedabad, if you care.
You get your information from Teesta?
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
brhmnst of vhp fired the compartment.victims were shudras and women both they hate to the core.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
My info is from public domain. Perhaps, you have access to the SIT report, which I don’t and which is not a public document as yet. Therefore you believe what you want.
You must really ‘fond’ of Teesta as you keep referring to her very often. I have never discussed her, what she is doing or what she says.
On sad tenth aniversry of Godhra, bloggers are debating with dignity. And then shan with cingulate bad taste comes and posts shrill random posts. Pl dr shan, on this one day spare us your monumentally stoopid statements like”racism finished cos of one comedy serial in UK”
Serious sad topics need sober minds. Gopi, why should Teesta be in jail, did you know she is Padam Shri
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
Did you watch BBC1 news today. Apparently 70 kabuters have been deported , the clip showed kabuters living like rats in southall , names jaswinder .
They apparently destroy their passport making deportation difficult , as indian embassy doesn’t co operate , without proper papers. However one brit sardarji was sucking up to the BBC , putting the entire blame on the indian embassy.
By the way can you name the episode “in fools and horses” where a sardarji was a chaffeur to a crook of indian origin
Anonymous Reply:February 28th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Your post has no relevance. You have very cheap way of debating, learn some maners first
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Serious sad topics need sober minds. Gopi, why should Teesta be in jail
October, 1984. I was in the middle of an early morning meeting. Tying up the last few loose ends. The PM was to inaugurate the Aonla Fertiliser Project. My team was assigned an important job. We had not slept the night before. We were tired, yet excited.
Suddenly there was a silence. I looked over my shoulder and saw everybody in shocked silence. Somebody informed me that Mrs Gandhi was shot by her own guards. I had a strange numb feeling. I just stared out of window.
As the day progressed, I started feeling restless. It was not difficult to understand why she was shot. I could not figure out why of all people, her own guard would shoot her ? After a little discussion, we understood that her security was compromised.
By 3 O’ clock, we got to know that she was dead.
I and friend of mine left office. I wanted to just hit the bed. From Nehru Place to Saket, it looked an eternity. People were all over. Standing and talking animatedly.
We reached Chirag Delhi. Suddenly we met a large crowd. Cheering and booing. As if there was a cricket match going. The crowd would run backward laughing all the way, then again move forward. We parked our bike and tried to see what the crowd was upto.
To my disbelief, there was a Sardar on a scooter and the crowd was trying to catch him. His turban was off and hanging loose. Every now and then he would accelerate the scooter and the crowd would move backward. Strangely there was no fear in his eyes. He was determined to move out of the crowd.
There was no anger. The crowd was having fun. Everybody was laughing. Booing and even clapping in between when somebody tried reach the Sardar close.
“Don’t let him go”, shrieked one man from the crowd.
“Yes, don’t let him go”, a large chorus followed.
It was a very young crowd. The oldest would probably be 35. The most vocals were the young ones in school uniform, as young as 12-14.
The crowd was definitely having a good time. It was some sort of sadistic fun. Perhaps close to what you see in a bull fight. Here, the middle aged Sardar was the bull, the school children matadors. I instinctively moved forward shouting and trying to stop the school children. But suddenly I was pulled back by many. Few pulled my shirt, another my hair. I looked back to see who all were holding me back. There was no anger in their eyes. Just mischievous glee.
“Who is he to you?” asked one who was pulling my shirt.
As I tried to struggle, suddenly there was an uproar. The crowd started running here and there.
“Oh! they have set him on fire!”, the crowd was shouting and running.
People panicked, pushed each other and ran. But laughing nevertheless.
I turned and looked at the man on the scooter. I saw his long hair was on fire. It was one of the those school boys who was almost doing a victory lap. My friend pulled me to the bike and started the engine.
It was chaos everywhere. We could not take the regular route to his place and decided to move towards Dhaula Kuan, my place.
As we reached Safdarjung Hospital from the lanes and bylanes of Gautam Nagar, we saw a huge crowd gathering around a large compound. I believe it was Safdarjung Hospital Staff quarter. There was a large field just outside the staff quarter. There was a Sardar in long underwear, undershirt and holding a long open kripan.
He was challenging the crowd come close. And crowd was booing him from the boundary wall. Again the whole scene was eclectic. Everybody seemed to having fun. There was no anger or voices baying for blood. The crowd was mix of low class motor mechanics, cobblers from Yusuf Sarai market, sweepers from AIIMS and few office goers.Barely 4-5 from the whole crowd were throwing stones at Sardar and others thoroughly enjoying the plight of the man in the middle.
Suddenly, a brick hit the Sardar on his head and he fell. The crowd of 200-300 jumped across the boundary wall and ran towards the man on the ground – all booing and cheering.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:32 am
The discussion around riot brought out this ugly memory. I could not focus on my work. So I just had to take it out.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:13 am
Like you I too was an eye witness to the late morning celebration among some sardars, a couple of whom, unfortunately, were my colleagues. And I had the great misfortune of watching right in front of my house in Vikaspuri, the horrible lynching and burning alive of a Sikh man.
A customer of my bank and also a long time personal friend, Col Virdi, became a victim of a lynch mob on the evening of her assassination and he saved himself, miraculously, by jumping the compound wall of a Defence Colony bungalow and hiding behind a bougainvillea bush. His head was slashed with a sword, but still he saved himself.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:19 am
I was almost choked. But for some strange reasons, tears started rolling as I read your piece. Perhaps it gave that final push.I guess I need a drink right now.
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..Scientists find key to immortality for asexual worms
By Kate Kelland | Reuters – Mon, Feb 27, 2012….
Email……LONDON (Reuters) – Who wants to live forever? Some flatworms do, even if it means no sex.
British scientists have found that a species of flatworm can overcome the process of ageing to become potentially immortal and say their work sheds light on possibilities of alleviating ageing and age-related characteristics in human cells.
In a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal on Monday the researchers found that the flatworms, known as planarian worms, can continuously maintain the length of a crucial part of their DNA, known as telomeres, during regeneration.
“Our data satisfy one of the predictions about what it would take for an animal to be potentially immortal,” said Aziz Aboobaker, who led the research at Britain’s University of Nottingham. “The next goals for us are to understand the mechanisms in more detail and to understand more about how you evolve an immortal animal.”
Planarian worms have long fascinated scientists because they have an extraordinary ability to regenerate. A planarian worm split lengthwise or crosswise will regenerate into two separate living worms.
Aboobaker’s team studied two types of planarian – those that reproduce sexually, like humans, and those that reproduce asexually by simply dividing in two.
Both types appear to regenerate indefinitely by growing new muscles, skin, guts and even entire brains again and again, Aboobaker explained in a statement about the work, but the asexual ones also renew their stocks of a key enzyme which may mean they can be immortal.
Scientists know that one of the key factors associated with ageing cells is telomere length. Telomeres are sections of DNA that cap the ends of chromosomes, protecting them from damage and the loss of cell functions linked to ageing. Shorter telomeres are thought to be an indicator of faster ageing.
Previous research — which won the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2009 — has shown that telomeres can be maintained by the activity of an enzyme called telomerase.
In most sexually reproducing organisms the enzyme is most active during early development, but Aboobaker’s team found that in the asexual worms, the planarian version of the enzyme is dramatically increased during regeneration – a factor that allows stem cells to maintain their telomeres as they divide to replace missing tissues.
Douglas Kell, chief executive of the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council which part-funded the study, described the finding as “exciting” and said it “contributes significantly to our fundamental understanding of some of the processes involved in ageing.”
The work also “builds strong foundations for improving health and potentially longevity in other organisms, including humans,” he said in a statement.
(Editing by Paul Casciato)
Not surprisingly it is the month of February in a new Year and the Anniversarists have jumped out of bed and stirred into action …. long write ups on the most horrendous post Godhra Riots in Gujarat in 2002 ..For them it is the “Tenth Anniversary” of those Riots . Anniversary is defined as the yearly recurrence of the date of a past event , or , An anniversary is a day that commemorates or celebrates a past event that occurred on the same day of the year as the initial event.
So let us reconcile to the fact that for many of these anniversarists , rehashed articles on these Riots shall be annual recurring event for years to come . Also In these discussions either there shall be no reference to the burning alive of Hindus in the Sabarmati Express or if at all , it shall be reference in passing. For them it was a non event. An event to gloss over shall also be , that in the Riots a large number of Hindus as well as policemen also died. There should be no Anniversary of that . So there should be an Anniversary of the demolition of the so called Babri Masjid , but do not recall that there was a temple there . There should be no discussion on the 1984 Riots . Same for the Killing of muslims at the hands of the secular Congress Rajasthan Govt in Bharatpur in 2011. Do not bring into discussion the flight of the Christian Evangelists from Kashmir .
But for these Anniversarists …come February and it shall be honk Godhra …honk Godhra ….
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:50 am
this is brilliant. You have torn these anniverarista to pieces.
Since you mentioned-in passing, of course-the Godhra train burning, let me quote Vir Sanghvi, one of the high priests of the secularist-media:
Some extracts from his article “One-way ticket” in The Hindustan Times of Feb. 28th, 2002:
“There is something profoundly worrying in the response of what might be called the secular establishment to the massacre in Godhra. …
There is no suggestion that the karsewaks started the violence … there has been no real provocation at all … And yet, the sub-text to all secular commentary is the same: the karsewaks had it coming to them.
Basically, they condemn the crime; but blame the victims …
Try and take the incident out of the secular construct that we, in India, have perfected and see how bizarre such an attitude sounds in other contexts. Did we say that New York had it coming when the Twin Towers were attacked last year? Then too, there was enormous resentment among fundamentalist Muslims about America’s policies, but we didn’t even consider whether this resentment was justified or not.
Instead we took the line that all sensible people must take: any massacre is bad and deserves to be condemned.
When Graham Staines and his children were burnt alive, did we say that Christian missionaries had made themselves unpopular by engaging in conversion and so, they had it coming? No, of course, we didn’t.
Why then are these poor karsewaks an exception? Why have we de-humanised them to the extent that we don’t even see the incident as the human tragedy that it undoubtedly was …
I know the arguments well because — like most journalists — I have used them myself. And I still argue that they are often valid and necessary.
But there comes a time when this kind of rigidly ’secularist’ construct not only goes too far; it also becomes counter-productive. When everybody can see that a trainload of Hindus was massacred by a Muslim mob, you gain nothing by blaming the murders on the VHP or arguing that the dead men and women had it coming to them.
Not only does this insult the dead (What about the children? Did they also have it coming?), but it also insults the intelligence of the reader.
There is one question we need to ask ourselves: have we become such prisoners of our own rhetoric that even a horrific massacre becomes nothing more than occasion for Sangh Parivar-bashing?”
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 7:10 am
“” There is one question we need to ask ourselves: have we become such prisoners of our own rhetoric that even a horrific massacre becomes nothing more than occasion for Sangh Parivar-bashing?”"
I wish our so called secular media/politicians read this line again and
again and understand the real meaning of these profound words and act in a right spirit in future.
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
When everybody can see that a trainload of Hindus was massacred by a Muslim mob, you gain nothing by blaming the murders on the VHP or arguing that the dead men and women had it coming to them.
they were murdered by brhmns of vhp.who hate women and shudras more than muslims.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
In those few lines you have written, you have given expression of thoughts of many of us in this blog. Selective amnesia, appears to be prevailing mode. Half truth is no better than a lie, should be known to all.
Shenoy Saab, Pankajji , Mohanbhai
I wrote my true thoughts and feelings but we also know that the campaign of lies shall not die , the vested interests behind it are too deep and powerful too.
Since yesterday, we have been discussing about riots, killing, victims, justice and all.
Blog has become rather gloomy. Let me try my bit to lighten the mood.
Three ladies in a changing room in a club were chatting when a naked man
walked in with a mask on his face.
They all looked at his naked body and one of the lady said
” he is not my husband ”
second lady also immediately said
” he is neither my husband nor my boy friend”
Third lady looked at him closely and exclaimed;
” Oh my god, he is not even the member of this club “
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
You irrepressible Mohan!!!
Some for them have acknowledged that justice must be done (of course with the usual provisos and justifications – leave that aside, it was expected) to the victims.
However, has it ever occurred to them as to who is to start rolling the wheels of justice, so that the culprits are brought before the courts?
As I understand it is the police and the law & judiciary department of the state government – FIRs, investigations, arrests, charge sheets, trials, judgments.
If the police and the law & Judiciary department do not do their jobs diligently, then have the derelict police officers and bureaucrats have been taken to task by the Minister of Home (Narendra Modi)?
Not that I know of. If the Home Minister did not bother, then who is ultimately responsible? Isn’t it the Chief Minister (Narendra Modi)?
On the contrary, what one got to see was a total mockery of justice, so much so that the Supreme Court had to transfer major cases out of the state.
His supporters will argue – the CM was not responsible for the breakdown of law and order and that went on until April/May of that year, he is also not responsible for delivering justice.
Then will someone explain as to what exactly are the responsibilities of the Chief Minister, who also holds the Home portfolio? In other words where does the buck stop?
WHO IS TO BE BLAMED? Police officers involved in the probe said progress was slow because of “the lapse of time“
“In the absence of such material (evidence and witnesses) how can we arrest somebody because the complaint accuses that person?“ Sources said senior officers who were part of the committee had recommended departmental action against 190 policemen who closed these cases on the grounds that the “accused were unavailable for arrest“. However, no strict action has until last year, (ONLY 117 OF THESE 1,958 RIOTS CASES IN GUJARAT HAD BEEN REOPENED AND RE-INVESTIGATED) been taken against them.
In contrast, Naveen Patnaik (because finally the buck stopped at his door step), setup fast track courts to try Kandhamal riots 2008 (sponsored, engineered and executed by the Hindutva goons – cannot hold RSS directly responsible, as they do not maintain any membership records). Many judgments have already been delivered, culprits punished and perhaps some more must be in the offing.
“” HINDU WOMEN FOLKS UNDER SIMILAR
CIRCUMSTANCES UNDERGO HONOUR SURGERY “”
I agree with you that rape victims in our society are looked down upon most of the times.
Please read this article which is complete opposite of this.
Are we changing ? I hope so .
I am sure Mr. Rajiv Gandhi is no longer among the living ones. Plus these days the practice of Planchette is not what it used to be before. So no luck there too for the media.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 8:49 am
It should, therefore, be easier to withdraw the Bharat Ratna award.
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 9:55 am
How is that going to help ?
BTW, Notice something at play here ? The point I was making to Gopi was about Guj.’s riot free 10 years. Your choice automicatically siwtched to bring in 1984 and Rajiv Gandhi. When the argument went un-tenable you switched to Bharat Ratna. Wonderful. I am wondering why Ms. Sonia Gandhi is not yet part of your arguments.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:13 am
the argument is never “untenable”.
No government in its senses would award a Bharat Ratna to a person, who was and is still held responsible for causing the anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984. Besides, he was also involved in the bofors corruption case.
Much as you would like to view the 2002 Gujarat riots as a stand alone riot, most people consider all riots as related by a common thread of hatred. And since the 1984 rioters have been allowed to go scot free, with some of the mob leaders becoming central ministers and Rajiv Gandhi himself getting a Bharat Ratna, the post is extremely relevant and tenable.
MAN WHO SLAPS PAWAR UNDER ATTACK BY CONGRESS GOONS
The earlier article
Continuation (Part 2)
Turning Lohiaji on his head
The Congress has lately perfected another socialist variant, much preferred by its establishment jholawala chic. It is povertarianism — poverty is my birthright and I shall make sure you have it. But nobody invented a strain of socialism as quaint as Ram Manohar Lohia, the great Nehru-baiter, who infamously described in Parliament Indira Gandhi, then a new prime minister still finding her way, as goongi gudia (dumb doll). If you have a fundamental disagreement with socialism, you would see Lohiaism as its worst manifestation: it combines the most retrograde Left economics with the worst of the Right’s xenophobia. But like most other socialist thinkers, Lohia was a genuine and original intellectual. Unlike Indian communists of that era who were so starry-eyed about China, he was the first to warn the country of an inevitable conflict with China, in 1946! Much before the rise of the saffron Jan Sangh, he was the first national leader to oppose the Congress in the 1950s and ’60s. He built a formidable array of parliamentarians, from Nath Pai (who famously offered Nehru his bald head when he made light of the Chinese occupation of Aksai Chin saying not a blade of grass grew there) to Madhu Limaye and Madhu Dandavate, George Fernandes, Raj Narain and, of course, not to forget JP, later hailed as “Loknayak”.
Smirks that speak and a doctor with no prescription
Rajnath Singh agrees to meet us before addressing the sparse crowd, probably hoping for the small ground to fill up a bit more. He is more interested in finishing ahead of the Congress than winning power in the state he once ran as chief minister. Wouldn’t it have been fair and better if he was projected as his party’s nominee for chief minister? Realities change with time, he says.
One thing you would say about Rajnath is that he is not as natural a political liar as politicians usually are. For example:
Question: Can the BJP really win a majority this time?
Rajnath: “Why not?” (with a hint of smirk)
Question: Can Uma Bharti ever be the chief minister of UP?
Rajnath: “Why not?” (with more than a hint of smirk)
Question: Why is Modi not campaigning here?
Rajnath: “Because he is busy in Gujarat.” (this time with a proper smirk)
You are actually correct about the communal strife torn history of Guj. as a supporting point for Mr. Modi – the Chielf Minister.
My only trouble is why stop at Gujarat – after all the whole of human history has history of violence. Why bother at all ? Let this filth which calls itself humanity annihilate itself.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:14 am
Don’t you think we are already on that road ? Humans will annihilate themselves.
Only question is when ?
AshishC Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Life, as has been said often, by (doubtless inebriated) philosophers, is a morbid thing.
Think of the advantages of not fighting the morbidness of it- no more Dr Shan
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Life is a sexually transmitted condition, for which death is the only known cure
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Ghar se nikla toh dil me kuch armaan the
Aage shamshan the – peecche kabrastan the
Mudade pe pair pada toh yeh bayaan the
Chalne waale jara samhal ke chal – hum bhi kabhi insaan the
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Wah wah kya khoob kya khoob
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
The poetry bug has infested you!
Good one. I loved it.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:16 am
for the first time on this blog you have spoken something sensible.
Yes, why stop at Gujrat? If you speak about Gujrat, I would most certainly link it to 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom.
If you make it look like only Muslims suffered in Gujrat and Modi is personally responsible for all the carnage, then I would certainly say, Rjiv Gandhi is more responsible for the 4000 odd deaths of Sikhs in Delhi.
And it took a Gopi to make you see the point most of us have been making here: that Gujarat was riot prone; it has seen several more bloody riots for decades. Modi just happened to be the CM in the last riots, which were, for the first time in Gujarat’s history, televised.
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Let me be more explicit . This is what I had in mind.
Clearly, a picture can speak much better than words.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Modi never looked more handsome.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
I liked the cartoons, particularly on MMS and Kapil Sibal.
Comparison between the Sikh Riots & Godhra Riots.
The discussion on Godhra Riots – mainly between the seculars and Hinduatvadis on the issue of Godhra/Sikh riots here has been grossly un-satisfactory. The seculars are looking for some acknowledgment of wrong doing from the Hinduatvadis, who in turn try to escape from a tight corner by bringing in the Sikh riots.
So here is my take on the comparison between the two.
Background – Sikh riots have their roots in the growth of Akali (Sikh Communal) politics in the Punjab. Indira Gandhi’s intention was to weaken the Akali Vote Bank, but chose a communal tactic to achieve it. This tactic got out of hand and resulted in an unwise attack on the Golden Temple, which incensed the broader Sikh community so much, that it resulted in the assignation of Indira Gandhi.
Godhra riots can only be understood in the larger context of the RSS programme of social engineering in which it wants to increase the Hindu hegemony at the cost of all other minorities, specially the Muslims. Within this programme are smaller projects, of which the demolition of Babri Masjid was just one. RSS, using the BJP as its executor managed to rouse the rebel so as to destroy the Masjid.
Triggers – Whilst the Assassination of Indira Gandhi was the immediate trigger for the spontaneous outburst of anger against the Sikh community. The fuse was lit, when the Golden Temple was attacked. Precipitating a riot was not the intention.
Similarly, the Godhra Train Fire was the immediate trigger for the riots that followed; RSS’s expectation was that a riot would have followed the demolition of the Babri Masjid. When that failed to happen, plan B – Godhra – was put in its place. What is not clear is if the Fire on the train was accidental, started by the RSS gonda’s or was a Muslim retaliation. Either way the Riot was the intention and a riot is what resulted in this case. The secondary triggered was engineered to justify the reaction.
State – State and its political allies was an actor in the Sikh riots, but riots were not a State policy.
Low level Communal tensions between Hindus and Muslims in Gujarat is a mundane reality, which is often excited by the Hindu Right into a riot with the intention of creating fear and thereby consolidating the Hindu Vote. Amply demonstrated by the post-riot election results.
Closure – The assassination of Indira as well as Rajiv Gandhi have provided a kind of a closure. The feeling among Sikhs is that the issue resulted in a score draw, nothing more remains to be done. As far as minor players goes, some were tried, some received justice and others escaped. Unsatisfactory as it may be, it is not the most important element of the Sikh riot story.
Contrasts that with Godhra riots, the principal actors are not only beyond the reach of justice are actually reaping the fruits of their misdemeanour. Properties appropriated during the riots have never been returned, people evacuated are living in slums and Modi is larger now than he was before.
Conclusion – Sikh riots were entirely condemnable but have been consolidated and both the parties have moved on from this sad but un-planned episode. There remains very little enimosity between the Sikh community and the Congress.
Godhra Riots were planned and are an un-declared policy of the RSS, without significant closure society cannot move on. Major mistrust between the Muslim minority and the RSS remain in place.
Please shred to piece if you like, or say it has been shredded even when it has not been.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:30 am
Conclusion : RUBBISH
You have really disappointed me.
You are not any different from Engrich
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:35 am
Thank you mohan
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:07 am
now you know. There is little that separates Ram Autar from this fake, who calls himself Ravi.
Ram Autar may commit spelling mistakes and this fake may be writing without mis-spelt words. Ram Autar may attribute every damn thing to a Brhmnst-Zionst conspiracy and this fake may equivocate on those things.
BUT, THE THIN VENEER OF SLIGHT DIFFERENCES IN PERSONALITIES CAN HARDLY HIDE THE CENTRAL TRUTH: BOTH ARE UNABASHED, UNREPENTANT WAHABIS ALWAYS TRYING TO FURTHER THE JIHADI AGENDA.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Since you have been witness to 1984 riot and Gujrat riot was not that far in the past, what is your take on both the riots?
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:41 am
Not sorry for intrusion here.
Both were a blot on Indian nation. Period.
No efforts should be spared to not allowing any riot to happen ever.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
It’s an open forum. All are welcome.
Fully agree with you.
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:14 am
This coming from an RSS man.
I will take it as a compliment
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Ram Autar may attribute every damn thing to a Brhmnst-Zionst conspiracy and this fake may equivocate on those things.
see the similarities between sept 11 and 26/11.in both cases no local was arrested and no enquiry commission was formed to investigate the episode.case was built up on media news.
one small thing,ajmal kasab is shown in pictures with hindu holy thread kalwa,in his right hand,which muslim never wear,forget jihadi.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:14 am
Which part really disappoint you ?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Either you have not read what he has written or you just want to provoke me, as is your habit. Engrich’s posts are not worth discussing.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:49 am
It’s a plain question. Take it or leave it.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
this fake Ravi says, “Godhra Riots were planned and are an un-declared policy of the RSS, without significant closure society cannot move on. Major mistrust between the Muslim minority and the RSS remain in place.”
Do you agree with him that Godhra riots were planned?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
You and I have been witness to 1984 riot. As I can vouch for it, it all started with the mischievous acts by lowly educated miscreants.
I am not sure I can say the same thing about Gujarat riot. The whole riot was completely “weapon driven”. Weapons were flashed as openly as Talibans always flashed theirs in Pakistan.
Unlike individuals who were targetted in Delhi, it was muslim clusters in Gujarat that were attacked by the mobs. When you attack a cluster, you go with a massive posse(!) . Idea is to shock and awe.That’s what happened in Gujarat.
There have been systematic attempt to destroy the police call records.
When Call records were submitted, they were simply filed by the SIT and never analysed. People were refused to have access to those call records.
Very crude and obvious attempts have been made to stone wall the investigation.
Hiren Pandya, the home minister clearly indicated his fingers at Modi. Pandya was murdered. And nobody has been prosecuted yet.
There were motives. There were enough direct indicators.There have been many circumstantial evidences.
But as many loving parents would love their children irrespective of their shortcomings, we too can do the same and ignore all the shortcomings to protect our own.
We Indians are comfortable with Parent-child relationships, rarely the adult-adult ones.
So, who cares about the reasoning !
But thanks for asking.
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
I believe you were invited to diagree with me.
Reading your response, I feel that you have added another dimension to my basic contention.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
We know the reasons. But we rarely talk in public because it leads to unnecessary arguments and bad-blood. Besides, we all want to move on.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
It is OK to target individuals but not the “Muslim clusters” – Gods live there.
If you are bringing the issue of call records, let the courts decide if at all they were destroyed and who was behind it?
In fact, very crude and immature attempts have been made to level allegation based on cooked up evidences and tutored witnesses.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Full marks to you on planning. In the morning you came up with a story of 1984 riots where you wrote that mischief led to the riots. Now you post about Gujarat riots which
started with people carrying deadly weapons. Nice way of showing your prejudice.
You only forgot to mention one simple fact that mischief killed more people – from one community only- than weapons.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Good point Mohan.
This guy is definitely Prahlad with a new ID.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
with a new ID and without the ’sir’.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
I was expecting you to join a meaningful debate.
This guy Prahlad must have been quite a star !
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
He was a star but star of lies just like you.
Prabhat exits..Prahalad enters..Prahalad exits, Dhawan enters..
Looks like Amol Palekar’s Golmaal.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Are you always so clunky ?
Mahesh Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Actually – he was.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
You failed to notice that I replied to Shenoy’s specific question. So your “planning conspiracy theory” does not hold water.
Moreover, let’s address the core issue, not peripherals.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
If you realise that mischiefmongers have caused harm to the society in general, then you must pledge that you will dissuade mischievous acts whenever you sense one, even on this blog.
Yes, I feel very strongly towards mischievous people.
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:37 am
As much as those riots were a blot, the narrative given here in the form of analysis is far from analysis and bias. This much was not even from secularists perspective. it is a clear attempt to put ones case in a civilized language not concealing Ram autar’s perspective. This is the most benign interpretation of this analysis for me. worst could be..i refute this assertion totally that BJP/ RSS want hegemony of Hindus, and steamrolling minorities in silence. .
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:40 am
as they say, it is not the worth the paper it is written on
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Thank you Gopi
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
So Ravi, the terrorist is proposing that muslims assasinate Modi to bring closure to Gujarat riot. Very nice..This is what we call secular values of Mullahs.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
This was one of the reason of his post I compared him with Engrich.
Ek Aadmi Pepsi Samne Rakh Ke
Udaas Baitha Tha..
Dost Aaya Pepsi Ka Glass Pi Gaya
aur Bola Yar kyu Udaas Hai ?
Aadmi Bola Yaar Aaj ka To Din hi
Subah Biwi Se Jhagda Ho gaya,
Raste Me Car Kharab Ho gayi..
0ffice Late Pahuncha To Boss Ne
Naukri Se Nikal Diya..
Ab Suicide Karne ke Liye Pepsi Me
Milaya Tha Wo Glass Bhi tu Pee
pankaj#1 Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Ab kya misaal do main tumahare kamal ki….
Excellent, Ab doosron ko bhi mauka deejiye, ya Oscar har baar Aap hi ka hai?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Boss, You are a champ..
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
As usual very nice one.
now let us wait for Engrich to find a brhmns zionist conspriacy behind the zaher
The issue with Teesta (as it relates to Gujrat; but as you know she puts her mouth into the various so called HR issues all over India) is that she bribed witnesses to file false claims to punish a targeted list of 21 innocents, produced false affidavits without the knowledge of the witnesses etc etc.. The case of ZahiriBibi (Zaheera) is well known, she put her , her father, brother etc under her care for many months, persuaded her to retract the Vadodara court statements and filed cases in supreme court on her behalf without her full knowledge, when Zahira retracted and went back to her original Vadodara statement Teesta joined the Mullahs in justifying the Fatwa against her for “lying’…
The bigger tragedy is that the media watchdogs after Modi have never focused on the likes of Teestas – where do they get money, why are they involved only in certain types of “violations”, …
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
It is a simple case of perjury. She should be behind the bars.
What you have stated is a well known fact.
I was wondering why Balwinder kept on raising this question multiple times on this blog.
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
was wondering why Balwinder kept on raising this question multiple times on this blog.
he should know that justice to weak is not possible in hindu justice system.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
Balwinder is smitten by Teesta’s looks and powewrful “oratory”.
Gopi thanks. On Teesta, I will respond later.
Ravi, when response is as bad as yours one can either say it is
Vaary vaary imbecilic, or
Malicious post of twisted mind.
You succeeded in making Digvijay, Mulayam, Teesta look unbiased and inteligent.
Ravi Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Thank you Balwinder
—————————————————————————————————————————–~~ basic issue is why riots happen and can THEY HAPPEN AGAIN ?~~~
I have been busy today– kabhie kabhie yaaron thoda bahut kaam bhi karna padta hai
But I’ll love to answer this even though many would find it unpalatable.
Q: Why do riots happen?
Ans: When the ordinary person feels that some wrong has been done to his community and this is not being addressed by the courts and he has to become the judge and adminstrate justice. They usually happen becasue of some incident or may just happen when a collective simmering anger bursts out — as it was in London.
Q: 2 : Why does a perrson who would normally be an ordinary husband, son orr grandfather suddenly become a rioter?
Ans: Again his grieviance which might have been deep inside suddenly bursts out and he feels that now he has to take revenge.
Q:3: How can riots be prevented?
Ans: 1) People of the same group should distance themselves from the actions done by a minority in their group on their behalf, quickly and say, “that individual has done this wrong… we condemn it and have nothing to do with it.”
Q 4: What should have been done in Delhi and Gujarat?
ANS: Bluntly speaking, Jagjit Singh Chauhan and those fools who celeberated Indira Gandhi’s death in UK lit the fires of the anger of the lumpens in the streets of Delhi. The Congressis like Titler, Sajjan kumar, dharma Dass Shastri used this anger to get together mobs.
Adding to the fire was the one sided killing of Hindus in Punjab from 1980 onwards which led to simmering anger of the rioters that the entire Sikh community was behind Indira’s murder. THE WAY TO DEFUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RAJIV GANDHI COMING ON TV THE SAME EVENING ALONG WITH SOME SIKH LEADERS WHO SHOULD HAVE CONDEMMED INDIRA’S MURDER WITH RAJIV GANDHI SAYING THAT THE SIKHS AS A WHOLE WERE PATRIOTIC AND NO INVOLVED IN IT.
In Gujrat, the burning of 58 religious Kar sewaks was as big a happening. The spin that was created that the reason was the harrassment of some girls was not only difficult to believe but also led to mobs going out of control. Who created the spin? TV channels or some spokesman with the good intention of pacifying the public and making the act of bogey burning palatable.
THIS WAS AN ENGRICH TYPE OF STATEMENT WHICH IS COMICAL IN NORMAL CIRCUMSTACNES BY HIGLY INFLAMMATORY ON GODHRA LIKE CONDITIONS
MODI SHOULD HAVE COME ON TV — AS HE DID AFTER THE AKSHARDHAM ISI ATTACK — AND SENT A MESSAGE TO ALL GUJARATIS THAT HE BELEIVED MUSLIMS AS A WHOLE STOOD BEHIND GUJARAT.
This much for now…
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Riots happen. It happens in all societies – the recent riots in China (in spite of it being a police state), the recent UK riots as you pointed, the 1965 Watts riot in Los Angeles (in which many were injured, properties destroyed, 40 or so people killed, and it lasted for five days in spite of all the police force), the 1992 Los Angeles riots (basically for the same reason as 1965 — black frustration) etc etc.. Also the France riots a few years ago (the given reason being Muslim frustration)..
India, because of its very composition – language, religion, food habits etc etc; one can find thousand reasons – is “primed” for riots which the cunning and evil politicians and thugs take advantage of. What is needed is a well equipped and staffed law and order set up that can react fast and control the situation before too much killings and destruction happen.
We all should be proud and self congratulating that for a population of 1.2 billion with all sorts of external differences, we are relatively riot free, even considering Gujrat, Mumbai, Delhi etc incidents. .
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
I have seen two or three riots from close and I knwo that normal people turn abnormal during that time. I think it is best now to devise ways so that riots dont happen.
Our politics of pandering to religion by way of reservation or special laws or trying to free criminals on basis of their religion etc are only erecting barriers and creating resentments.
From a historical perspective which other country with som many groups and religions remains riot free?
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
riots happen in single race, single religion countries too. As you said it is a human element – normal people turn abnormal… on some differences, and there are zillions of differences . if India was all white, all Catholic, all Hindi speaking, there still will be riots.
Indian politicians should look closely at what happened in Sri Lanka. The Sinhalese “awakening” and the brutal two way killings and the final wiping off of the Tamil resistance (and potentially making them a suppressed minority) was, in my analysis, the result of marginalizing the majority to a point beyond which they couldnt take any more. I am afraid that the talks of reservations, never ending appeasements, constant badgering of gujratis etc will take us to a point of no return. All should be acreful, especillay “leaders” like DigRyodhan Singh, and Mani Iyer etc
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
DigRyodhan Singh, and Mani Iyer etc
the difference between them and rss leader is that they speak truth.u people twist the truth.
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Riots happen. It happens in all societies
the only difference is that in india only rioters go unpunished.
engrich Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
In Gujrat, the burning of 58 religious Kar sewaks was as big a happening.
they were not karsevak.that was reserve bogey.all passengers are alive.a t godhra all passengers left and bogey was locked by railway department.how these people entered in bogey is mystry.definiteley they were not ramsevak.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Normal persons do not indulge in riots.
There is a difference between a normal person and seemingly normal person.
Only people with criminal streaks indulge in riots. So let’s not justify/suger-coat riots.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
The justification is necessary to protect Modi’s ‘reputation’.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Why did you not say the same about the Congress? Unlike you I am not under a morbid faascination for protecting a particular thought process or party. I am just tryign to arrive at the reason behind riots…. what has been missed by many analysts here, but some of us are getting closer to it.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
If you are trying to arrive at a solution for a riot free society, enact laws that would act as deterrent to communal violence. Enact policies that include people in general.Be fair to all sections and appear to be fair.
Instead of analysing, if you motivate the people in power to implement these simple fundamentals, you could achieve what you have set out for.
But if a hateful speech sounds like a patriotic one, then you have your head in the sand. You have picked up a project that has no closure.
Anonymous Reply:March 1st, 2012 at 4:02 am
There we go again – I have lost count on this question..
I have always always condemned the Congress and Rajiv Gandhi for 1984.
Have you ever had the nerve to hold someone responsible for 2002? My question, yesterday has still not been answered – looks many people lost their voices. I repeat the question, just in case you missed it – not that I am expecting an answer
“Then will someone explain as to what exactly are the responsibilities (other than progress and development) of the Chief Minister, who also holds the Home portfolio? In other words where does the buck stop”?
As regards as to why riots happen – please start a new thread and I will contribute.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
You my be right that you need some criminal streak to take part in riots. But then say the London riots. Can you then end up arresting the majority of the city’;s population? My basic idea is to fiind the psychology beyond riots.
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 10:38 pm
You are sounding like that BJP leader who said ‘If one demolishes illegal structures, the whole Delhi will be a pile of bricks.’ Sometimes you just need to that to put the society back on track.
Vantage point. 1
action: hindu men eve teased a muslim girl and shouting Jai shree ram
understandable reaction : burn a coach full of people , mostly women and children to death on broad daylight
result : 59 hindus dead , crime : eveteasing
secular take : shit happens .. lets move forward -and remember not to carry the bodies to Ahmedabad , people might get to know what happened here . . just remember afterall they could have burned themselves and the muslims are justified to burn people , werent they teased ?.
vantage point 2:
action: a coach full of people , mostly women and children are burnt to death on broad daylight by a hostile muslim mob with prior history of communal violence
reaction : riot breaks out , for the first time in independent indian history police shoots one hindu for two muslims dead in riot and brings the situation into control than any other riot before
secular take :
state sponsored genocide , planned pogrom , lets never forget or let any one move forward – keep printing photos and inflammatory articles,
ostracize anyone who dares to look forward even if he is deoband maulana ..
if the courts thinks otherwise we need to tell the courts what justice is . ..
a disgraced police officer is the champion of truth , but SIT is not dependable they are bunch of liars.
Teesta setalvad is a noble fighter , afterall her lies and documented forgery and coaching to lie in the court is agianst modi , thats alright
yes there were other riots , much bigger , we dont even know who the chief mininsters were at their time , two wrongs dont make a right – but that is not relevant in this discussion anyway . but in this case , modi was the chief minister , he should have predicted and protected people – he is responsible . modi is evil ..
yes – most of the riots are triggered my muslims , that is understandable because they are just 150 million and are scared as they are the fastest growing minority with special laws to govern their civil life – but should hindus become fanatics too by reacting ?
and that gentlemean is Secular consistency .
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Perhaps the best analysis of secularism practiced in India. I can’t add a single word to this post. Great…
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Anonymous Reply:March 1st, 2012 at 5:29 am
Looks like Ravi has given you editing tips..
Anonymous Reply:February 29th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Your opening sentence is so uncomfortable !
Few men changed the destiny of so many !