Posted by Shreyas Navare on Saturday, May 15, 2010 at 11:57 pm Filed under cartoon · Tagged BCCI, Cricket, defeat, entertainment, parties, pubs, sports, T20
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It is media creation that the fast is his attempt to do over, to project as PM etc. Elections are 2 years away; Amma is not a fool to side with any party now. She respects Modi, she has a good relationship with him. But she has not sent any live branch to BJP
Once again another Shivaji (Modi) is staking his claim to the throne of Bharat, will he win in this battle of panipat….this nation has always lost on the hands of its traitors….serious battle to follow…..may Shivaji win this time and change the course of history
Have you sold yourself to congress ?
Frukwala Reply:September 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Of course he has, and he sold himself cheap, very cheap.
Vinod expects Modi to do what congress does-which suits the secularists-Modi is not, Why Atalji could not win 2004? coz he upset his own voting crowd-the hard core swayamsevaks-Please recollect -In UP and Gujrat all VHP caders went out of station during 2004 election. Why Advani lost his voice-He took Jinnah’s name…Nobody in rightist party can dilute their hawish position -If they do -they look like certerist party….Modi would lose his base-If hes going wear a skull cap, he is going to hold iftar party, go to Ajmer Dargah-But if he treats every one as Indian citizen-No pampering -No use of words minorities, majorities-He would be a big hit even in Delhi-As many of the citicen are sick of these divides-Majority, minority, SC-ST etc -Remember Anna ’s tri-colour was a hit-Vande madharam was a hit -If BJP says vande madharam Muslims had problem-when Anna says -they are quite -So No big deal to pamper, name any one for their growth-Relax and be amoung every Indian citizens
but clean chit from people of Gujarat. as he won in 2002 and 2007 after riots happen. so don’ t know who you are to tell all people. Go and won election if you can from just one seat.!!
This is not an edit, it is an edict, for the (congress) addicts.
Just what the good doctor ordered for a party lying on the hospital couch with bodily injuries and self-inflicted psycho-somatic fears and nightmares of losing the next elections, having already lost the people’s support and media’s adulation.
AND ONE SMALL POINT: THE “WIDELY TELEVISED POGROM” AS VINOD SHARMA CALLS IT, HAS NEVER LEFT THE MEDIA’S IMAGINATION AND AS THE MILKING COW, HAS ALWAYS RETURNED TO THE SMALL SCREEN TO ENTERTAIN THE SECULAR HIGH PRIESTESSES LIKE TEESTA, THOUGH WITH DIMINISHING MILKY RETURNS.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:25 pm
every country has curses — teesta is one for india.. arundhati at least is fun
laxman Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:59 am
and u are lair.no.1
From last 60 years Congress has not found new Mahatma Ghandi, Nehru, Patel, Lal Bahadur……and list is long, how do you expect BJP to find new Vajpayee in 10 years.
WITH WHAT I UNDERSTOOD AND AGREE WITH THE ABOVE BLOG IS MY INDIA DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER JINNAHA
There is no doubt that Mr. Sharma is an experienced and seasoned journalist, but he is not ready to come out of the prejudiced atmosphere weaved by many pseudo secularists over a long period of time.The need of the hour is to bridge the gulf between the Hindues and the Muslims.If Modi is trying to bring amity and peace leaving behind past unfortunate incidents, why should not he be given a chance in the larger interests of the nation.I think Mr.Sharma is not correct when he says Modi’s Sadbhavana mission dilutes BJP’s anti graft pitch.The anti graft movement started by Anna is the movement of the masses and BJP can not afford to ignore it.
If Rahul Baba had done such kind of Fast. Mr. Vinod Sharma or HT would make him the King of India.
Actually India needs a strong leader like Modi, not a namby -pamby like Vajpayee. Vajpayee failed to protect India from Pakistan ( Kargil, attack on Parliament, highjack of Indian plane by Pakistan- based terrorists were the results of his weakness). he utterly failed in his Pro-Pakistani policies
But why did the Congress Party forget about Vaghela ? Poor fellow was left to fend for himself on the footpath . Claims of such a huge support base , still none turned up to sit alongside. TV Channels have been most cooperative. No shots of how many people were there . Just close-ups of Vaghela and that other fellow. ….. Yes some like Mallika Sarbhai and her friends did provide a sideshow. But that is what the Congress is in Gujarat ..just a sideshow. The political Opponents of Narendra Modi say that Gujarat Riots was a state progrom ..
But what is the Meo Muslim Congress MLA in Bharatpur alleging about her own Congress Govt … That it was the Police which killed the Muslims… The problem is that other community involved is Gujjars … any strict action on them and Sachin Pilot , the Congress Gen next Politician squirms. Where are Teesta Setalvad ? Mallika Sarabhai ? …
And what is the National Minorities Commission doing about Bharatpur it ? Looking the other way ? He He
Balwinder Praha .. Actually I was writing my comment when I was urgently called and by mistake the incomplete comment got posted and Mr Vinod did not let go that opportunity …
A Like Reply
Vajpayee is unique. Why HT blog writer searching new Vajpayee.
Simple useless editor !
i dont understand why he cannot say sorry to victims of gujrat riot.
If ther is no ABV, the BJP should never form the Govt and MMS or RG will do ? Ridiculous. You people write for the sake of writing
excellent article by Mr. sharma…Atalji blamed Modi for 2004 loss to NDA…BJP MUST get some lesson..understand there are 5-6 states in India like Gujarat, MP, Chattisgarh, Maharstara, to an extent ****sthan, May be delhi where this hindutva politics can get votes for BJP, but how many lokshabha seats these states have around 90-100, what ****ut whole south India, bengal, UP and North where 400 p lus seats are there..people in these states do not support modi…BJP should Concentrate on south India as well where there are 250 seats and it dont have any prsence..also if modi wud be projected PM.. there wud be one sided voting by muslims, christans, sikhs and secular hindus for congress and they will win..2014….also nitish kumar second biggest partner in NDA wud not at any cost will accept modi..neither chandrabau..nor beju janta dal will accept him..and may form or join third front…BJP…need face like atalji not modi..also congress would be very happy bec off modi the national attention wud be shifted from corruption and inflation to riots and communalism…which will benefit congress..U CAN SEE THE SMILE ON THE FACES OF CONGRESS LEADERS BEC OF THIS MODI DRAMA..
C B kumar Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
There are 300 seats where BJP has a chance,200 winable.As for support even Farookh( offerd in first NDA Govt).supported.Except Cong. and left all other parties can be managed,with a price .My only doubt is Modi will not bargain as he is very straight forward.The way Modi has ruled,there is no example since 1947if you do not judge with colour glass,,apeasing none and taking all with him.2002 roit is only propoganda.He was new in administration He not only, controled in 72 hours,but stopped to spread in other part of Gujrat.Thousands were in street to take a revenge of burning of 59 Ramsevak.More than 200 were Hindus among the 1200 killed.Compare with genocide commited by Cong. killing 3000 in delhi only without using any force by police
B.V.SHENOY Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:44 am
I think you need some classes in geography and one or two in history.
The whole of South India has only 120 seats. From where did you get the figure of 250?
About the “one-sided voting”, this is the classic vote bank politics of the congress party, of which, even the congress party itself has begun to develop doubts after the drubbing it got in Bihar, where the BJP got 99 seats!
The smiles you are seeing on the faces of the congress leaders is at the farce created by Vaghela with his copycat fast and also because of Mallika Sarabhai’s nautanki, which came as a freebie.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:06 pm
New youth of India is both ignorant and arrogant…They have no clue what they are talking about.
Regarding Modi’s PM candidature I have some doubts. There is a long way to 2014. If Modi and Rahul are projected from their respective parties as PM, it will not be easy for Modi as his fans think. The minority votes which are now divided between secular parties may get consolidated and and go to CONG solidly to keep Modi away. The 20% of minorities vote and 20% of solid Votes of Congress may bring more seats to CONG. BJP has no base in many states. Nitish and some other NDA leaders may not help Modi. Modi fans are over enthusiastic. Even in BJP, many leaders are not in favour of projecting Modi as PM. However it is true that Rahul has no charisma of Modi. Fasting should not be used for publicity or for political advantage -then it becomes mockery of Gandhiji ./bsc
the way the things are going here….very hard to get a new Atal. for a karishmatic leader from a party takes at least 10-15 yrs. really for Modi, he came to this position on a very fast track. normally it takes longer to get a good prime minister. even Manmohan, he is in politics since 90s and became primeminister in 2004 for the first time, even though we cannot call him as a good prime minister. just imagine, what happes if sonia is not behind him.
Why should a Sonia-Rahul-Congress supporter like you be concerned about who BJP leader is ? Should you not welcome Modi as the leader so that all you have to do is stand on sidelines and shout ‘communal, communal’ and that would wash away congress corruption, incompetance and communalism ? Or are you afraid of Modi as BJP leader ?
This fast was nothing more than a cynical gesture based on the belief that if a fast can catapult Anna to a position where he is perceived as a NATIONAL leader then perhaps people will start viewing Modi as a National leader post his 3 day fast.
WE DON’T HAVE ANY CHOICE….DO WE?
ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER CONGRESS LED GOVERNMENT?
ARE WE GOING TO ACCEPT SONIA CLAN LED UN-OFFICIAL PM TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY?
ARE WE IN A POSITION TO MAKE THEM SUPER RICH?
LET US GIVE CHANCE TO MODI OR A SIMILIAR POPULAR LEADER FROM BJP TO LEAD THE COUNTRY
Vinod sharma is pro congress person and critic of BJP. I have always heard him praising congress 7 criticising the BJP on the TV shows. He is keeping eye to become the Press Secretary to the Prime Minister, like his predessor Mr H.K Dua.
indirectly he has crtisied Modi rather praising Atal Bihar Vajpaee. He know very well Vajpaee is bed ridden he can’t come back in open politics.
its not about what BJP needs, its about what India needs. India needs Namo. Modi is an idea whose time has come. Time for MMS to make way for the king
I AGREE WITH VINOD.
1. Whatever happened in 2002 in Gujrat was not a pogrom as suggested by you. They were riots instigated by the minority community. The majority paid them back although Hindus were also killed in a significant number. Their lives count for less though!! Mr. Modi was new to the chair of the CM of Gujrat at that time and did all he could to contain it within 72 hours. If the memories of th riots are still alive, the blame/credit should squarely rest on biased propaganda of the Congress and their paid journos.
2. JD(U) is not obliged to attend a fast by the CM of a political allie. If they have serious issues with either the BJP or Mr. Modi (an integral part of the party), he should call off the alliance in Bihar. Can you see that happening?
3. If Mr. Modi hasn’t been given a clean cheat by the SC, has he been even made an accused? Could any one come up with any substantial proofs against him in last 10 years. Allegations don’t count.
4. You say: No whole-hearted support from BJP – you must be kidding.
5. Mr. Modi needs no praise from anywhere as a certificate. The growth in the state is there for all to see. It is inclusive and the Muslims in the state have benefitted as well.
6. Compare the growth of Gujrat vs the state of the nation under the able leadership of the so-called country’s best economist and person of high integrity. We are living in a state of high interest rates, high inflation and rampant corruption.
The choice for the electorate would be an easy one. Bring on the elections – 2014. See you then Mr. Sharma.
You should watch Vinod on TV channels. The way he defends Congress makes it obvious that he is on payroll of someone. Who, I can not even guess!!!
Why have the comments have been closed?
Whatever may have been the objective of Modi by going on a fast in air-conditioned comfort (a nautanki, if you can ask me) – to be more acceptable to the minorities and liberals, so that he becomes a serious challenger as the BJP’s Prime Ministerial candidate whenever the general elections are held, the fact is the RSS honchos know the ground realities too – that he is and would be BJP’s number one liability outside of Gujarat, as was proved in 2004 and 2009. Nothing much has changed since then as far as Modi is concerned.
By drawing attention to himself, more dirt is coming out on his acts of omission and commission during 2002 and thereafter.
Yes, the BJP needs someone like Vajpayee to be serious challenger, but there is no one in sight at the moment. Nitish Kumar is the best bet for the NDA, with Modi being confined to Gujarat.
Modi can never become Atal Bihari Vajpayee
Your are absolutely right. By organising a five star nautanki – fasting in air-conditioned comfort – all that the he and BJP have done is to score self goals – unnecessary spotlight on themselves and more dirt has been dug out. The Congress must be chuckling.
At the moment, Nitish Kumar is the best bet be PM candidate for the NDA.
PS: My previous message was flagged by the Modi trolls (and HT does not have mechanism to check and put the message back if it is not inappropriate). Like a coward he is – walking away from Karan Thapar’s interview, these trolls too are cowards (like hero like worshipers), no guts to face reality and other point of view. Watch this too is likely to be flagged.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Dog biscuit eater of Congress,
1. If Mr. Modi’s fast was a nautanki, what was Vaghela’s fast?
2. You can only shout 2002 riots so many times and then nobody really is bothered. The issue has already been squeezed and people are now moving on to see the good governance and development of the state.
3. Nitish Kumar for PM is a media creation to creatre a rift in the NDA. With no more than 20 MPs, he doesn’t have a chance. He is the CM of Bihar and BJP is an equal partner there. That’s about it.
4. You have been called names because you started it.
B.V.SHENOY Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Actually, the best nautanki was provided by Mallika Sarabhai, with her hysteria, histrionics, and constant giggling.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Shenoy. I have exapnded our lovable joker Digviansh’s name to Digviansh Singh nautanki, mentor of Amar Singh Dahla wiht your permission
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 8:45 am
Nautanki sitd nicely with the name Digvinash, as his qualification.like Daruwala, Botalwala etc.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:05 am
Thank you for confirming that Modi’s show was a nautanki too and not the best.
Nitish is a good guy; my reading is that he will be like Dr MMS as a PM- cerebral, good understanding of issues, but unable to execute — yes, he has done a good job at Bihar; but it is easy to do a good job there because the baseeline is so so low (because building one road is like 100% improvement in infrastructure!)(it is so sad how the previous govts screwed Biharis).
As I indicated in the prior blog, I cannot see anybody else other than Modi, or Jaya, or Naidu who will be able to pull India forward. I do not see anybody in Congress (please suggest if you have anybody in mind; six months ago, I would have said Sibal is capable). I do not see any in the left parties (I am not for the left; but purely from a capability/leadership “index”).
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:07 pm
With 29 odd seats, Nitish can never be PM because days of Deve Gawda are long gone.
The country will accept PM from BJP or Congress only.
@Mishra, Vijay, Balwinder, Rajeev, Pankaj , Shenoy , Ashish etc
Have your ID’s changed with the change of website ? My changed to Rajiv with 3 is.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Vijay kumar can come in as Vijay_kumar as well as Vijay Kumar. I’d advise you to make a DISQUS ID to post faster and automatically
I think we are unnecessary wasting time on speculating if Modi will be BJPs PM candidate in 2014. There are still 32 months for next Lok Sabha election and I am sure congress will do something in the meantime to put opposition on defensive. The pro-congress media like HT will play useful ally to Congress propaganda which can start as early as start of 2013.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am
Indian Politics requires genuine change of heart! Really..Haha!! Vinod how long have you been writing about politics.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:12 am
we need a major major change!
Vinod Sharma Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 7:52 am
I don’t share your cynicism and am convinced that people of India do forgive and forget if an apology is genuinely sought.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:18 am
@ Vinod Sharma
A apology would imply he is guilty. And once he apologises, the media and COngress will say “becasue he is guilty… he has apoligised…”
Vinod Sharma Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Modi is responsible if not directly accountable for the 2002 riots continuing without check. As CM the least he can do is to express regret.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:08 pm
I agree with Vinod, Modi should have at least expressed regret over his incompetence during 2002 riots.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:06 pm
You are right. he should have expressed regret
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
From a TOI blog.
Modi says he had always considered the post-Godhra riots a “blot on civilized society.”
But not on him, you will note. Civil society is at fault, not Modi, who was the chief minister at the time. Either Modi is not part of civilized society or if he is, he had a role to play as chief minister of that curious society, and he didn’t play it well.
How Much congress bribe you to write against modi? Do you have a single proof.
Why dont you journalist come to gujarat and write against modi Then see what public react. How about 84 sikh riots. Who was behind it? Answer it first.
Where is jagdish titlar?? Why dont you write a blog article over 84 riots. Right na? Write the blog and publish it in punjab if you are true born from india.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
“How Much congress bribe you to write against modi?”
Frankly speaking Modi’s fast was purely political and even nautanki comparable to Rahul’s Bhatta Parsaul picnic and Dalit home food tasting.
It is time our leaders talk about real issues rather than enact drama to fool Indians.
Eelctions are 2 plus years away. Modi should focus on Gujrat, make it shine even better. Assuming TN will roar under jayalalitha, and she will join Modi/BJP in the elctions, NDA should be able to showcase three big states – Gujrat, TN, and Bihar- where unbelievable progress has been made. Compare against cong led states! People vote on their aspirations and pocketbook, the vote on their perceptin of India not catching up to China/Souh korea….. The PMship can alway be decided after winning (MMS was considered as PM after the elecions)
So the world has changed… well at least this blog has in its format…
MOdi is certainly moving centrestage. However I still feel that maybe the BJP should focus on the sauve Jailtey, their man for all seasons, even though he is not a mass appeal man.
Reason– MOdi has been ascribed with a lot of baggage by the media. He should have fought back all those allegations for 10 yrs, instead of waiting for this day.
The media needs a tamasha a day for TRP ratings and survival. Modi well might become their obsession as Vinod Sharma has shown. No doubt, Modi’s oratory can sway masses…
But the huge controversy will drive away potential allies like Nitish and Chandrababu.
So… a tough choice for the BJP.
However is he the right choice for India? his 11% growth and tough , corruption free administration. Vs the image of incation during riots?
As for me… My first question. What are his views on prohibition /… ??///???
Shoeb K Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
This new format su—–s.
I do not think Modi will do anything on prohibition. Your wines are safe
But you are right – Modi/BJP will have to devise a strategy to counter. The best strategy is to use Muslims from Gujrat for advertisement and as spokespersons..
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
We really had good debates in the old format. Somehow i feel this new format may not match the old one…
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Yes, Mohan Bhagwat & Co. has really a tough decision to take vis-a-vis BJP/NDA’s Prime Ministerial candidate. Perhaps, they will not declare anybody and wait for the election results to see which way the wind is blowing.
I doubt if Chandrababu Naidu and Naveen Patnaik would rejoin the NDA. Nitish’s stand re: Modi are too well known to be repeated here. As of today, he guarantees 40+ seats from Bihar to the NDA’s kitty.
On your “favourite” topic – Prohibition.
One feels sorry for the people of Gujarat. They have to pay a premium for indulgence. No political party is ready to do away with it, so much unaccounted funds are available to them instead of the Government treasury. One of the biggest scams going on for ages. Some estimates put the market size to about Rs 1500 crores annually. If it was legal, the Government would collect Rs 3000 crores in taxes. As they say Gujarat is dry by law and wet by preference.
Gopi Thomas Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
JD (U) is essentially a Bihar only party; Nitish can influence 29 seats *that is what he has now.. Of course Nitish is a good guy, BJP should keep him, however, they should not worry about JD if Modi is the man..They will come in
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:43 am
That count was 30 months ago. As of today, he can surely get 40 or even 50 seats, if you go by the results of the last assembly elections – almost clean sweep. He is inching towards a majority on his own (to the magic figure of 122+) in the state. BJP needs him more than he needs the BJP. He is going from strength to strength. What will happen by 2014, I cannot predict.
True, JD(U) is Bihar only party, but Nitish Kumar has a built a reputation that spans India. Even his worst enemies do not have anything negative to say about him. The question is will other regional/state satraps accept him as their leader, given the fact all of them are megalomaniacs.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Rajeev is right. Bihar needs Nitish. In case he comes to the centre it could be a Rabri or Lalu redux. Nothing could be worse.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
IMO, Lalu and Rabri are finished for a long time to come, people having seen his performance and Nitish’s. If Nitish moves to the centre, he will make sure that his man/confidant is in place in Patna (remember he has 119 seats on his own, 122 needed for simple majority). If he moves to the centre as PM, more funds will flow to Bihar for faster development.
So argument that Bihar needs Nitish is not sustainable. No one is indispensable.
B.V.SHENOY Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:28 am
you are very right. Nitish Kumar can win seats for his party only with the transfer of BJP votes and vice versa. He can hardly hope to win 15 seats on his own, ie. without the BJP votes, in which case the rest of the seats would go to the congress, RJD and LJP, besides of course, BJP.
And the very existence of the JDU will be jeopardised by any foolhardy show of righteousness and pique. Which is why the P.seculars are trying so hard to create a cleavage between the NDA allies.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Congress has tried very hard to break JD(U) from NDA. After failing in their multiple attempts, they are using media to spread canards like “Nitish should be NDA’s choice for PM” to divide NDA.
Nitish has lot to do in Bihar which is still at the bottom despite 11% growth. He should stay there and at least bring Bihar to the level of UP.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:23 pm
“Congress has tried very hard to break JD(U) from NDA”.
That is world of politics and Nitish has gone on record several times – kal kisne dekhaa hai.
~~~~ THE BIG QUESTION?? who will smash the LeT, bash the recession and make India dash faster than other nations? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ Gafffe prone Rahul Baba? DIGVINASH SINGH NAUTANKI ? Jailey or MODI ??? ~~~
I think this is the big question before us. For me Dignvinash SIngh nautanki, the mentor of Amar SIngh Dahla is out. Rahul is gaffe prone as the American ambassador observed. Poor guy has never workd for a job. WHY does’nt he serve as a Miniiter first to see whether the demanding Indian public would be satisfied. How can we have as PM a man who has NEVER done a job or reported to anyone?
This only happens in India…
My choice would be Jaitley. Modi can come in asome other senior Minister. But jailtey , though not an emotional swayer of mass audiences can be a good PM…
gopi_thomas Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:11 am
The situation in India and the world will be significantly worse two years from now- the economic crisis will hit India (and China), the magnitude of yet-to-be-uncovered corruption (like the Bangalore land scam, YSR ‘ crores etc), the worsening Islamic terrorism — all these will cause docile Indians to demand a decisive leader like Modi..
laxman Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:05 am
why u forgot worsening brhmncl terrorism
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:18 am
Situation in India and the world is going to be significantly worse in two years. Inflation, economic decline due to the western crises, Islamic terrorism, infiltration of Pakistani terrorists etc will cause Indians to demand a strong leader like Modi.
Decisiveness and demonstrated strength of the leader, whether of congress or BJP or some other party will be a key issue. I do not see Rahul taking it, or for that matter many in congress willing to give it to him.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:56 am
Yes the situation could get a lot worse. Pakistan is still as much an extremist bastion as it was say five years back. But then, even if we have to strike against them in case of a 26/11 type of attack, we may need to take the world along with us.
The repeated allegation against Modi by a motivated media could well become an albatross. So really we need a strong leader… but maybe Jaitley has the edge.
Advice to all… Make a Disqus ID. Your comments will come in faster and not go throw a moderator
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Will take old format any day. Will tackle uncomfortable post on my level or worst, will take them in my stride. that way, at least we know, what level, standard people really are.
Thanks for Disqus tip.
Now a lot of people have still not connected to the new format yet. Pankaj… where r u? Dr mishra? Mahesh? Ashish… Balwinder, Dr Anand…. Usman… Prabhat -still in mountains? Modi too stayed there for 4 years .
Even people who see Walrus moustaches, Khaki nikkers and kalitopis and shout out RSS .. RSS , rape rape every time they take a breathe… are not around …
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
You sound desperate..are you missing fellow bloggers? They will be here..including our SIKH Ravi.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Not desperate… but wondering what happened to all. As for Sialkotiya Ravi… (is he in ISI headquarters Sialkot or in ISI sleeper cell Sussex?), he just answered your call 2 minutes back….
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
More like Muridke. U Know what I mean
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Rabb nu kiya se main..
Dil di saari muraadan kar diyo puri
Rabb ne maarya joke,
posting ho gayi Muridke
Haalat ho gayi saddi burri.. burri…
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
तुहाडा रब जोक मर्दा है,
साडा रब पद मर्दा है.
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Count your blessings that all those who say.
Have successfully made it
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
came alone here… or are the virgins here too?
Sorry uncle… dont mean to be rude! just needed a wisecrack to have a sound sleep…
Though you did get a bit mixed up. I never said paedophile prophet.
Now Pak-shit-stani is a term I am proud of. And Tajendar was surely T U R D.
And JNU? Well, it was right next to IIT Delhi, where I spent a little time. It had some good looking girls, who unfortunately in the ninties thought engineering nerds were too boring to discuss hash ( which I didnt use) and Marx ( which I knew llittle about and did NOT admire). But yes I did meet some other interesting people from the JNU… some of whom are now in the media…
Great… very great campus. But being put to unproductive use by some lazy leftist faculty…
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
As you know I travel light, but here is something that would cheer you up.
This is from today’s International Herald Tribune, a must read for both ISI agents as well as Shan’s Kuttar.
Gorbachov was invited to Harvard to deliver a lecture on International Relations.
After the lecture students were encouraged to ask What if type of questions.
One bright student stood up and asked Mr Gorbachov, What if on that fateful day, istead of Kennedy, Krushchov was assasinated.
Gorbachov is said to have been taken by a surprise and then after a minutes thought, he said.
I am sure that Onasis would not have married Mrs Krushchov.
Good night from Muridke, and from this less than reformed Jihadi.
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Gnight… friednly advice…Watch out for the drones…
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
@ Ravi… yes it was a good one by Gorbachev…
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
or Chinook Helicopter if you are in Abbotabad.
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
The most I am likely to encounter tonight is an escargot that I may tred on, on my way to the pub.
But thanks for the warning which fell on drone ears.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 9:35 am
Tumne Di Awaaz Lo Mai Aa Gaya
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:11 am
this new format sucks (repeat 100 times)..
can’t figure out where the comments are.. especially from those I like interacting with. (Hi all….)
Vinod Sharma, there will be a strike rivaling that at Maruti plant.. unless you roll back the changes .. I am sure HT could afford better website designers..
Yeah, we know wordpress is very powerful- just go easy, will you, sir?
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:23 am
You got to live with this imperfect world. I am missing the smilyies the
most. I think you should take up a DISQUS ID, Log in the moment you come to the blog. Things will be simpler then…
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am
I have a disqus id; to me Disqus is more pretty than effective. I am sure their marketing/ sales guys/ gals are very effective.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 12:24 pm
I think you should choose…”sort by latest” in the box below the comments column, to get an idea of real time postings
(Dr.) B.N. Anand Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Hello Mr. Vijay
Thanks for remebering. Currently I am in USA after visiting Germany. I had been there before as post doc student but now I am visiting the universities at these places for some invited lectures and research assignments. Hopefully, by the end of next month I shall be back.
But in the meantime, I had been following the comments by friendly fellow bloggers whenever there was some time available. Yes, yours , Shenoy saheb’s and Rajeev and many more new friends have been writing very interesting comments. But it looks ,Mr. Vinod sharma is not responding to the comments as he once used to be. The new format of the blog also does not look exciting. May be it looks like the one followed in TOI.
Please keep on blogging more actively and may be once in a while I shall join you all.
Thanks and regards
According to me new facts of Indian life are-
Anti-Progress = Congress
Anti-National = Congress
Anti-Hindu = Congress
Pro-Corruption = Congress
Lies = Congress truthAnother
Secular = Wearing muslim topi
Indian = imported Italian leaders
Terrorists = RSS Wallahs
Nationalists = Indian Mujahideens, SIMI, their congress and SP supporters
Secular Media = Who works for Congress exclusively
Honest = Manmohan Singh who allowed loot of India
2G = Sonia G and Rahul G
Anonymous Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
Ravi Reply:September 20th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
How awfully polite
Vijay, Shoeb, Balwinder praa, Shenoy, Rajiv, Gopi, Ashish and all old friends- nice to be back. And once again, everyone is discussing symptoms, not disease.
” Is Advani, an intrinsically decent man, ultimately responsible for lighting a fire whose embers are, only now, cooling down ”
” Was it so difficult for muslims to give away an old decrepit mosque, esp after a 1000 year history of iconoclastic orgy ”
The disease is religious hatred and obduracy. Hindus should look into their hearts and answer the first question above, and muslims the second one. In their respective answers lies the future of India.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 9:19 am
It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with politics and manipulation.
If people lived according to their religion, Israelis would have given statehood for Palestine, (instead of treating them worse than how Jews were treated in Germany), Jehadis would not have conducted terrorist suicides, a compassionate health care bill would have passed in US etc etc.
And it is wrong for “outsiders” to pass a Hindu or Muslim or christian etc judgments on what Advani did or Babri. Advani did certain things for political considerations, not for Hindu religion or Dharma. And I am sure many Muslims did not care about the razing, although they may have not liked it. In a non-heated, non-political environment, they can relate to the number of mosques that are coming up without any objection from govt or citizens, religious context of Ayodhya etc.
We live in 21 st century, the beginning of which indicates that instead of being a scientifically advanced, accepting people; most people and countries are regressing to a “15th century” belief system. Read somewhere that 50% of Americans do not believe in the theory of evolution – so, no wonder they have this tea party movement whose basic tenets include there is no global warming, world was created 6000 years ago (over a seven day period) etc. At the end of the day, after all the hoopla about the Tahir square Jasmine revolution, Egypt is going the way Islamic Brotherhood wants — to a Sharia based, Quran ruling country. For all the enlightened Jews and their immense contributions we talk about, their political direction is set by ultra-conservative Likud party; and not the liberal Labour party as it used to be in the first 40 years of Israel existence.
Some of these trends are visible here at home too – independence, economic growth etc have created a large subset who declares “no more Somnath”. It also has created another subset who find it difficult to operate in an independent, “democratic” country; they go back to the book, some of them become violent interpretors of the book.
The latest NIA report on Delhi HC bombing says there is a keralite Muslim also among the four in custody/interrogations. Now, why in the world a Kerala Muslim would go to the north, go to Kashmir, plan some bad things, and execute this heinous crime? Muslims here are not poor (they are the second richest after christians), they are not illiterate or poorly educated (their education level is almost in par with other communities; they themselves have a lot of highly regarded colleges), they were never discriminated (unlike in northern India, the Muslims here are not converts from lower caste) etc.. So, why do they do it? Is it religion, or somebody manipulating them for political and/or territorial advantage?
laxman Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:21 pm
intellegence bureau is infested with brhmnsts.this kerala boy story is not proven in court.brhmnst of IB sometime give wrong information which brhmnst media spreads like fire.to provide power to hindutva.
around 20000 muslims are languishing in indian jails from last 15yrs without being charge.
mk narayanan,an iyer from palghat was transferred after 26/11 ,chief national security advisor was demoted after 26/11,why .american intellegence informed about this attack to him a week before.but he kept this secret and used this to kill kakare and his associates who had the laptops of col.purohit and dwivedi.plan was to capture india.53
places training was going with live ammunitions.
american intellegence even inform him of the exact time when boat loaded let terrorist will leave karachi port.including the route.
there is no need to add notorious before the name of any brhmnst(not brhmns).
till case is proven against dont repeat it again.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 9:31 am
Advani alone could never cause riots. A burning matchstick needs to be dropped in can of petrol to create fire, same burning matchstick dropped in a can of water hardly causes any trouble. Not trying to downplay Advani’s actions at inciting the communal frenzy , just highlighting the widespread communal hatred in that period.
Relatedly, the whole Rathyatra was much more about Mandir / Masjid. If it was only the Masjid that was destroyed , far less number of voices would be lamenting it.
” In their respective answers lies the future of India.”
How so ? Trying to understand the argument here.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Riot or mayhem can never be blamed on one individual, however a person becomes its face – Advani for the infamous rath yatra, followed by riots and deaths in its trail and culminating in the destruction of Masjid later. Similarly, Modi has become the face of Gujarat 2002.
I am finding that my replies are not coming to blog, any reason? This I am trying as not a reply, may be this will see the light of tomorrow morning.
Modi and Vaghela sat on a fast
they had bed but no breakfast
Modi always had, in attendance, a huge crowd
Vaghela was deserted even by the media crowd
Of Modi’s fast, the whole world took note
Vaghela, poor chap, was not even a foot-note
Modi had the whole of BJP leadership by his side
Vaghela had only Modvadia in the pandal’s inside
This is a true story, which the media feels shy to tell
And if told truely, we’ll surely know on whom the axe fell
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:13 am
a good contrast every kintergarten student would see but not Amul baba
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm
As usual, good poem.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:08 pm
No, Infact this reply is to IT at HT. Good job folks, my reply is there instantly. This I call listening to people. Much appreciate.
finally I have managed to logon.
as usual nice one.
Regarding prohibition in Gujarat. Yes, it is very easy to get a bottle of whiskey
in Gujarat and surprisingly sometime even cheaper than what I pay for the
same in Bombay.
vijay kumar Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 9:29 am
i hope it is original…
Advani took advantage – which he should not have- of the blunder commited by
Rajiv Gandhi of opening the doors of Babri masjid which was dead issue. Nobody
at that time knew anything about this Babri Masjid problem. And regarding your
second question – when a Quran is burnt by some stupid pastor in USA and in reply to that few inocent people are killed in Afghanastan. What else can we expect from
some of the similar type of people living in India .
Guys even in this situation this is what happens in land of pure.
“” Religious minorities expect to be last on the list when there is aid to be given out”.
An interesting view on the Narendra Modi Saga by Shishir Gupta on his blog ‘Inside”
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:04 pm
engrich Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:24 pm
~~~ CONGRESS ko ALVIDA… but WILL BJP get the NAMASTE ????????? ~~~
And year back The Congress was on the cruise mode. But the antics of Mani Silencer Aiyar, Digvinash SIngh Nautanki, Gaffe prone Amul Baby and Amar Singh Dalla are seeing it bit the dust.
Chances are it will not recover from the blows this Chandal Chowkdi has dealt to it. SO desperate is the COngress to hold to power that it is willing to absolve the LeT and even cook up fake rape cases in bhatta Parsaul thru its supplicant media.
It may not be a cake walk for the principal opposition party, the BJP.
First Advani has also NOT denied his place in the race for being the PM. As Gopi has repeatedly pointed out, a 84 year old Advani will not inspire the 30 somethings which will be the median age of the voters.
Their second aspirant, Modi , will face repeated cries of “rape rape… Modi aa raha hai…” from the COngress and its friendly media. Vinodji’s blog is a pointer to what is coming. My own view is that Modi cannot be the face of the BJP as he will scare away potential allies like Nitish, Naveen, Chandrababu.
WHich leaves us with our first question. Electrol strategy with a winning candidate…
And that the BJP has to sort out.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am
vani has told the RSS honchos that he will not be in the race.
the road to 2014 goes thru 2012. Modi will focus on gujrat 2012 election, win big mahority, and return to the third term.
Up is a wild card. If Congress doesnt do well, Modi will maneuver into positioning himself as the leader. If congress does well and BJP doesnt improve, he will still maneuver because he can say BJP didnt do well because they didnt use him inn campaigning.
Sushama will be a low profile person ebcause of the Reddy saga that will be playing out full. She will become tainted whether she had any financial dealings or not – the Reddy improper money runs into zillions (the investigation may help congress to keep AP even with everything pointing to YSR… Jagan will come back to Sonia’s side!)
Modi, Jaya, or Naidu — I cannot think of anybody else among the current crop to handle the numerous internal and external crises we will face two years from now. Dark clouds are all around – the economic collapse of the west, possible dpoouble dip in US, our own inflation, what will happen to oil if the jasmines turn to be thorns, (the BAhrain suppression will not bode well for Saudis..it is only a question of time, may be too short a time)..
My gut is that party or no party, citizens will look for strong leader who will take the country forward..
~~~ HOW TO BEAT THE NEW DISQUS FORMAT ~~~~
Software as many of us know can be quite an idiot.
So is this new format introducedd by HT. Here are a few tips on how to beat it.
a) This format gives you a choice of looking at the comments by
— Sort by most popular
— Sort by newest
— Sort b oldest
In case you want a continuity of debate you can choose, Sort by latest, to see the latest postings. You may have to dump, sort by most popular
b) Logging in thru Facebook, Google etc may sen dyour comments to a moderator or delay your postings. You should instead create a DISQUS ID. And then Log in Immediately once you are on the blog.
Logging in after you write your comments can send the comments into some astro orbit, and they may not appear here.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I am using sort by oldest to get feel of older format.
This format is not too bad except that it lacks boxes around replies.
Finally cracked the new format, at my age not easy. Mishraji vaary well said _”"”for in their respective answers India will find its future”"”
very wise words sirji
we need more muslims to say yes thousands of temples destroyed, here gudwill gesture, lets biuld some fab temples. They take 1 step forward, their community will go up by 100 percent
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Very rightly said Balwinder ji,
If Hindus can respond to the burning of 52 at Godhra, they also have another side. If Muslims are prepared to take the step forward in the direction you suggest, it would result in a tremendous reciprocal gesture from us as well. It would not only be good for their community but also for the whole country.
Just wondering, if it were to happen, how would it impact the “vote-bank politics” that is being curently practiced?
laxman Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 2:21 pm
godhra was perpetuated by brhmnsts.they hate low caste and backward more than muslims..no list of dead was ever published and no news about compensation.compartment was reserved all passengers are alive.
riot was preplanned.since 1969 they were doing this heinous crime repeatedly.because of international corporates condemnation was more.
then they resorted to bomb planting which was exposed by karkare whom these criminals finished in first 15 minutes of 26/11.
laxman Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:11 pm
balwinder tell me name of 3 temples destroyed.most of the temples weredestroyed in fights between shivbhakts and vishnubhakts.and then when aadi shankaracharya defeated buhdhdists and and later jainese temples weree also occupied by them.today 2200 mosques are under occupation only in punjab.u all are rascals.muslims can improve their situation without anybody help.
ghodra carnage was perpetuated by vhp and rss to provide reason for ahmadabad riot which wa preplanned.hindu hates lower and backward castes more than muslims.they can do anything to achieve their target.
AshishC Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 4:44 am
Welcome back Ram Autar/ Tajender to Vinodji’s blog.
No more dull moments from now on.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:27 am
you are very lax in your history.
In fact, you have a twisted sense of history.
there is an urgent need of repairs in your upper storey.
How daru is sometimes cheaper in Gujarat.? Many distileries in India and
that includs UB of Malaya also speciacly produce whiskey for Gujarat
of which no records are kept. Thus no records/accounts = no vat and taxes = cheaper daru in Gujarat . And yes, it is original .
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:55 pm
to find it pays to have prohibition.
Everyone involved is making hay at the cost of the state exchequer (aam aadmi)..
Advani says (and supported by the RSS trolls) that there is no corruption or hanky panky in Modi’s Gujarat.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Mohan these are mysteries which need to be solved ! I think the present gen of Gujrat will take the lifting of prohibition in their stride.
As you know your present abode, Dubai, is so liberal as compared to the rest of the Arab world. Sheikh Zayed encouraged the discos and bars to get the goras and the Arabs in.
As far as Mallya goes– nobody has examined him too closely. He owes the state oil companies over a thousand crores. With Indian Oil, he has managed to extract an agreement to pay 290 crores in chunks of 10 crores a month which is almost just the interest ! Nobody– not tV or newspapers will reveal this as the ads he gives are… huge…
I think the deciding factor in coming election like any election will be the ECONOMY.
The world economy is in dire straits , India ’s growth is domestic growth driven. But in this interconnected world as John Dunne so beautifully said and I quote
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as a manor of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man’s death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
NO COUNTRY IS AN ISLAND
Thus this competitive fasting will not have much bearing on an election so far away.
I think Afganistan holds the key to lot of things .
As for India lot of time and energy is wasted in utter bullshit.
Nobody is talking about agriculture or education , though I read somewhere the centre is introducing an unique method. A pond will be the centre of a plot , which will supply rain and ground water to the land around it , also the pond will be used for fish cultivation. A pilot project has been introduced in West Bengal .
As for the industry not a great deal in the horizon.
Also the pakistan problem is always there , BUT THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A CHANGE OF HEART OR ELSE HOW COME SO PEACEFUL IN J&K.
As For Modi NO DENYING, he is a VERY good orator, VERY good administrator , but due to his lackof intellect will probably rely heavily on the advisors.
As a PM , one needs to keep in mind INDIA is not a small state called Gujrat, managing Gujrat and manging India is not the same thing
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 2:57 pm
is that a mysterious doc wearing dark glasses and Batman’s dress in disguise?
Modi may be faulted for not being English savvy as say Kapil Sibal but seems smart enough to manage the corporates to invest heavily in Gujrat
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Modi has enough English knowledge — there is no issue with that, may be except some Bongs…
TThe key for him is to win 2012 Gujrat with a BIG majority and trounce congress there.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:24 am
that the congress party will get a drubbing in Gujarat is a given. The fun will be when the Yuvaraj puts up his candidates for all the seats and they lose their deposits, like it happened in Bihar.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:28 pm
And I quote Shakespeare:
“A s.hitpit by any other name will stink as badly”.
This one is smelling of Shaan from a long distance.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:48 pm
If he has come uner a different name… he should be given a chance, under this name. It is secretly acknowleding that this blog is the best on the HT site and among the best on the net. Maybe a lot better than British blogs.
And also acknowleding that being abusive does not get you friends… so it is better to change yourself
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:21 am
why don’t we all jointly recommend Vinod Sharma’s name for a Padma Bhushan for his service to the nation in the field of media and for furthering Indo-Pakistan relations (that is if this government lasts till January, 2012 and Pakistan too is not lost)? We can also slip in a recommendation for Amar Singh dahla for his services to the party and family.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 3:59 pm
The stench of ghoos from a reactionary bramhin
be it konkan or be it from anywhere
whoever has heard a of a honest bank manager
who does not take CUTS before releasing the loan
Then that is konkan , that is shenoy,the phoney who always moans
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:10 pm
The best of secret agents manage to keep the cover for long. In fact Mata hari continued for 15 years. Now why did you have to fall for the bait?
You could have come under this new ID for some time, convinced everyone that you intend to be polite… and then one fine day announced who u really were.
But I think you fell into the trap…
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:22 pm
utter bollocks. I had an old disqus account , i have forgotten the password , thus i had to create a new account. what’s the big deal .Not a great deal has changed the moment you juxtapose the word bramhin with reactionary , the bramhins are in a flutter.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:16 am
about Shaan the nirad babu,
his prose stinks
his poetry sucks
his facts are darned
better be warned.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:13 pm
HUM NAHEEN SUDHRENGE.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Bramhins bhi nahi sudhrega, amanush hi rahega
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Your thesis has been confirmed. lol
According to Planning Panel, a family of 5 can be supported on Rs.31 per day. What is this definition of poverty? Can Rs.31 provide Roti-Kapda-Makaan for family of five.
If yes then the salaries of MPs and MLAs should be in relation to this new standard. The MPs and MLAs should not be paid more than Rs.310 per day and let us see how they survive on this amount. I fail to understand if this govt. has even basic intelligence.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:04 pm
That is planning panel for you, or India for you , how many times I have heard , Amabssador car is the car suited for indian roads.If you make the pass mark at 5 , you will delude yourself that there is no failure in the classes
Mr Sharma and Friends,
This Blog is dedicated to deal primarily with Indo-Pak issues. There are other blogs that are dedicated to domestic political issues. Why is Mr Sharma trying to make this blog a domestic political blog when Pakistan is going through such interesting times ? USA has just delivered an ultimatum to Pakistan ( Its 99th ultimatum in last 2 years ) to disengage from Haqanni group or face immediate US action in Waziristan. This ultimatum has supposedly being delivered to Kayani and Mrs Khar and is suppose to be the ‘real; final ultimatum’. Yesterday, ISI chief Mr Pasha was rushed to buy time and placate Pentagon and see if they can be continued to be hoodwinked. Will the Pakistani bluff be called this time ? Will Pakistan be able to continue to make great fools of US administrations ? The expectation is that things are headed for a climax in next two weeks.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Interesting point. Do you really think this is the final ultimatum? Then in case Pakistan transgresses as it would, we may see another Iraq in our backyard.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:19 pm
No I dont think US will invade Waziristan. The most likely outcome is heavy bombing of the area ( Miranshan ) and tightening of economic and military screws on Pakistan unless Haqanni brothers are captured or killed with ISI help in next 2 weeks.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Gilani just has to open his bedroom door and the Haqqani brothers will emerge…
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Nothing will happen , perhaps more drone attack , but that’s about it .Unless the NUKES are neutralised somehow , nothing drastic will happen .
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Ek din aisa aayega,
America Blackwill plan of dismembering Pakistan
Le kar aayega
Woh din door nahin,
Chakna chur ho jayega
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:19 pm
I thought the answer should be clear to you.
UPA and particularly the Congress is in distress; this is the time for all (loyal) hands on deck- to try and save the sinking ship.
Vinod Sharma is on the job; the Indo-Pak thing was an affectation.
Vinod Sharma Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 1:31 pm
U are right. This blog is devoted to both countries—- India and Pakistan. But in my judgement, what’s happening closer home is more important. The faceoff that you are now seeing between Pakistan and the US is for public consumption. The government in Pakistan as also the army ,are increasingly being viewed by the people there as appendage of the US and servers of its interests in that part of the world. I’d compare the Pak warnings to the US with the impotent rage of an infirm alms-seeker.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Well I agree that Pak fulminations and warnings are nothing more than
‘impotent rage of an infirm alms-seeker. ‘.
However I disagree with the idea that the establishment in Pakistan is being viewed by the people there as appendage of the US. Pakistani people may claim that, but its a deceitful claim and an effort to absolve themselves and the crimes of there army and government. Pakistani state is a criminal entity that is there to plunder and serve its own interests. If it was taking dictat from USA, it would not be supporting Taleban, HAQANNI, LeT and all other militant groups. Would it ? Pakistani people can’t be so dumb to not get it.
Rs.31 is joke on poor of India…Watch this and see how insensitive is our govt. led by Mata Sonia and Baby Rahul-
UPA has become a laughing stock .
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:28 pm
At least yuvraj is in sikkim , where is mohan bhagwat or advani or jetley.Apparently advani went for a darshan to nagpur.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Yuvraj in Sikkim for picnic…Stop this nonsense. You should know RSS has always been in forefront when it comes to disaster relief.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:16 pm
so where are they now in sikkim or for that matter in siliguri
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
You can find them in Sikkim and Siliguri if you talk to people on ground.
Shan, I hope you don’t indulge in mindless argument in your new Avatar. Good luck..Keep you personal fights out of your ideological standing.
Rift in UPA. ? Pranab Mukerjee is blaming Chidambaram for 2G fiasco.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:03 pm
I’d anyday support congress if the equation is -
Refined Congress = Current Congress Minus Nehru Gandhis and Pranab as PM.
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Dalda refined is still dalda; ghee nahi hai
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:51 pm
people may say , anashan teen din sey, gujrat carnage nahi bhool saktey
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:48 pm
I have always believed that voting for Congress is the biggest sin an educated Indian can commit against India but I have tried to understand why do I think so? I have realised that Congress with Nehru gandhis is the problem else this party too has lot of talented selfless leaders.
This is an example of how Pakistan lies and gets away with. The muslims who keep chanting genocide genocide should also read this.
Pak refuses to hand over ex-ISI chief to Bosnia tribunal
September 20, 2011 12:25 IST
Pakistan has refused to hand over a retired general, who headed the spy agency Inter-Services Intelligence, to an international tribunal investigating war crimes in Bosnia, according to a media report on Tuesday.
The Pakistan government cited medical grounds as its reason for not handing over former ISI chief Lieutenant General (retired) Javed Nasir to the International Tribunal of Hague, official sources were quoted as saying by The Express Tribune newspaper.
The tribunal had demanded custody of Nasir for his alleged support to Bosnian Muslim fighters despite an embargo by the United Nations. The Bosnian Muslims were fighting against the Serbian army in the 1990s.
Pakistan has informed the international court that Nasir “lost his memory” following a recent road accident and was unable to face any investigation into the issue. Nasir himself was unavailable for comment.
His son, Omer Javed, said the former general was not in service during the Bosnian war of 1993-95 as he had been “removed from the army” by then.
The summons for Nasir came when Serbian army officials were put on trial by the international tribunal for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Bosnia. It was then revealed that Nasir was actively involved in the war and had supported and provided arms to the Bosnian Muslim resistance.
The case was built on a “confessional statement” that Nasir made in a petition filed by his lawyer against an English daily after it published a report of his alleged involvement in embezzlement.
In the petition filed in an anti-terrorism court in Lahore [ Images ] on October 23, 2002, Nasir disclosed that “despite the UN ban on supply of arms to the besieged Bosnians, he successfully airlifted sophisticated anti-tank guided
missiles, which turned the tide in favour of Bosnian Muslims and forced the Serbs to lift the siege, much to the annoyance of the United States government”.
Nasir further said in the petition that he subsequently “became a target of US, Indian and secular-minded lobbies both inside and outside Pakistan”.
Having failed to buy him off, the US government started a propaganda campaign against him, he claimed.
Nasir further claimed the US demanded his removal as ISI chief and warned that it would otherwise declare Pakistan “a terrorist state”. He claimed that over 300 articles were circulated on the internet by the Western media that contained references describing him as the “only radical Islamist head of the ISI who was an active member of the Tableeghi Jamaat”.
In April 1993, the US finally warned Pakistan in writing to remove Nasir from the post of ISI chief, following which the general was prematurely retired from service by the caretaker government of Mir Balkh Sher Mazari on May 13, 1993, the petition said.
The demand for Nasir’s custody came when the international tribunal put on trial the former chief of the Yugoslav army, Gen Momcilo Perisic, and his deputy Gen Ratko Mladic for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Perisic and Ratko reportedly told the court that military help to Bosnian Muslims by Nasir forced them to retaliate against the Muslims, who were fighting the Serbian army for national independence.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:36 pm
there is nobody in charge in pakisatn..so no meaning in any deals.. It is foolish of US or India or anybody to deal with them now..
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Pak-shit-stanis are the biggest straight faced liers in the world. It is a nation of a million Natwarlals. Remember natwarla, even at the age of 80 escaped from jail as he had doen ten times before and started cheating again.
Americans being gullible innocents, believed them in the same way as our free kabab eating Track II lovers do. Well after OSama was found and Zawahair still there, the Americans may suddenly act like the rash cowboys and carpet bomb parts of Pakistan
I think we should add fuel to this fire by expalingin to Americans how the LeT and Dawood may launch another 9/11 on the US.
Maybe that would end up launching a drone attack on Dawood and hafeez Saeed’s houses…
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:49 pm
India has tried to impress that on the yanks for the last 50 yrs.
Nothing happened , pakistan built nuclear arsenal with america choosing to look otherside. supplied with F16 ans ORION P5marine surveillance aircraft.I should stop , else the green monster will wake up in a certain blogger. BOYS DONT CRY
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 4:45 pm
well that shows when it comes to pakistan , america is all talk and no action
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Thanks that you are here. Your absence, made me think, that all my comments were taken by you as directed towards you, while, i was speaking towards somebody else. good to have you back.
India’s tour of england brought shame to Indian passport holders like me in UK.
For those who are by law bound to sing “God save the queen” may feel happy.
Well as they say what goes round comes round , remember a certain jersey waving captain , and how the match was snatched from the mouth of defeat. Apparently according to Nasser Hussain the entire england team went into severe depression and self harm mode.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Would you mind disclosing your old ID? Just curious.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:13 pm
what do mean , it may have shan as well
sorry , what do you mean , it may have been shan as well
~~ IF CHIDU GOES.
Then goes Pranab da
And the Amul baby is Gaffe prone
Willl Digvinash Singh… grab the throne???
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:06 pm
If Chidu goes, he will MMS with him. MMS may point fingers at Maa-Beta..so I think Pranabda will be PM candidate.
As far as Diggi is concerned, even low-lives like Manish Tiwari don’t take him seriously.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:12 pm
CHILDISH TALK, sign of immaturity
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Why not Amar Singh?
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Digvinash and Amar Singh dahla
are the two sides of the same coin
But even his cronies agree,
Amar though full of money
Has the habits of a Berlosconi
So it is better, Digvinash grabs the crown
And Amar Dahla pulls the strings
from higher ground…
Rahul baba is in Sikkim to see the damage himself..Sikkim Dhanya ho gaya..
By the way Sikkim has lost 1 lakh crore due to this calamity and my feeling is that Rahul has gone to find avenues by which Congress can take its cut from 1 lakh crore help that Sikkim will get.
AshishC Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
His attempt at disaster tourism in RML, Delhi backfired. In Sikkim they probably won’t recognise his face.
The next election , will see a sea change in congress leadership.
All the grandees will have retired . Pranab mukherjee has said so , so will MMS , and Chidambaram has said as well . pawar is also retiring. So it will be GEN next , and in that sense it will be a watershed election in my view.In all probability Modi will be catapulted . MUSLIM VOTES COUNT LIKE HELL , so I am not sure how Nitish Kumar is going to accept this. Tamil Nadu is TURNCOAT, whoever in power will sleep with them . They have done this since independence.
BJP has no presence in WB, Tripura , all of Northeast , that is nearly 100 seats.
Maharashtra , is along Maratha /Pawar stronghold, virulent marathi nationalism of thackrey et al on the other. Kerala BJP doesn’t have much foothold (inspired from Bengal), ANDHRA PRADESH is a wild card , and UP IS THE TRUMP CARD.
Those who know UP well , will know that NOT A SINGLE BEHANJI VOTE can be whittled away . So it will be a close run
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:13 pm
pranab will not win anything in WB without Mamta’s support.
Chidambaram will not win anything anymore in Tamil nadu unless he falls at the feet of Amma.
So, let us talk about who can win on their own.
Tamil nadu had a dominant congress party at one time with leaders like Kamraj — DMK came to power because of miscalcs and stupidity of the central Congress govt years ago..
DMK forms alliance with Congress. Jaya with BJP (although she and Vajpayee had a fall-out). Jaya will win all the 39 seats in Tamil nadu. DMK will not get anything; neither congress.. Jaya will play right and shrewd; she will demand Modi be the PM, if not herself if BJP needs her support. And BJP will need those 39 seats plus the few in puducherry
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:25 pm
What if Congress wins , will the mistress of MJR and biological mother of shashikala ?father MJR desist from sharing the booty at the centre
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Sitting in UK, you may not want to weave your wand here!
Firt of all it is not MJR –itis MG RamChandran..(MGR)..I am told MGR was the darling of the state; with 50 plus people dying /martyring when MGR died.
And Jaya is not th biological mother of Shashikala- they are of the same age; there was a rumour at one time they
were lesbian lovers.
whatever it is, she has tremendous support in the state; for efficient, relatively uncorrupt “getting things done’ mode.
I do not think she will have an alliance with Congress, mainly because she has only contempt for most of the congressies.
She does not need any other party; it ill be the othr way.
And, now she is focusing on her legacy; she will be quite clean; plus will put the corrupt ones in jail. 4 ex ministers are already in jail.
I will put the odds for her becoming PM at more than 60%
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:42 pm
But jaya was making overtures to congress to dump DMK and induct her people in the cabinet , just before the elections. As for lesbian lovers , it was billed as Jaya giving away her daughter in a multi crore lavish wedding. She was the mistress of MG(apologies)R , who was originally from Srilanka.
Just like rekha’s dad was gemini ganesan , but rekha apparently had few step mothers and step sisters
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm
I may be sitting in front of my laptop on a cloudy day in north kent , but I have the pulse of india in my hand.
Read this about jayalalita(she was very pretty not a football like now)
In 1981, she joined the AIADMK and was nominated to the Rajya Sabha in 1988, marking her entry into the Parliament of India. Her association with politics grew from her affair with M. G. Ramachandran (popularly known as MGR), movie star and then Chief Minister., and her position as MGR’s mistress helped her to become his political heir.
Lok Sabha elections are two plus years away. The likelihood of who has a better chance to become the PM depends nothing on where we are now and a lot on where the world will be and india will be 2-3 yrs from now.
1) Economy – the likelihood of indian ad world economy goig down is quite high. This will favour Modi
2) Inflation/rupee going down- it is happening now; and if it continues, it will favour Modi
3) Terrorism – will continue, many acses will remain unsolved; will favour Modi (even with Safron terrorism)
4) Aspirations of a growing middle class and poor class and rich class — will uiversally favour Modi
5) Youth – have not shown any favour to Rahul, as evidenced by the afilure of most of his hand-picke candidates in t5he last assembly elections; so by default , it may go to Modi
6)Men top Modi; women to Rahul- so BJP better get Jaya to campaign
7) The 2012 state elections – If Congress wins UP decisively, then Congress will most probably form 2014 central cabinet. However, the likelihood of congress getting more tha 30 assembly seats is remote.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:32 pm
There we are. You advocating Modi as the PM and I not agreeing with you.
1) If the BJP gives any indication that Modi is their candidate for the top job or would be an important player at the centre –
a) The minority vote (18%+) will go to the Congress/UPA and others, hardly any of it is in BJP’s kitty at the moment. One can assume half of it will go to the Congress and it has 10% (at the very least) of its committed votes. To get to the magic 30- 32% vote share to laugh all the way to the parliament, it needs to woo another 12% of the voters.
In contrast, the NDA would need to work to get 20-22% of the vote to get to form the government.
22% vs 12%. Whose work is cut out?
b) Nitish Kumar is fine with the BJP, as long it “behaves” vis-a-vis Modi – keeping him confined to Gujarat, going by the past events/incidents.
IMO, so the BJP has to find someone from its ranks (if Nitish is not acceptable), other than Modi, to make a serious bid for power.
2) Naidu? He has reduced himself to a minor player even in his own state. I fail to see how he can play a national role? Perhaps you will elaborate in detail.
3) Jaya has always been a Tamil Nadu specific and the “Empress” she considers herself to be, nothing less the PM’s post suffice, IMO. Remember to meet her, one has to trudge to Poes Garden and that too only after she decides to grant an audience. She did not visit Ahmadabad during the ’sarkaari’ fast and even added salt to the wounds, by saying her MPs have been sent on request (contrary to what BJP would have liked us to believe). She had made even Vajpayee wait for two days to announce her support. She will co-operate strictly only on her own terms and those terms are not going to be any piece of cake.
4) Moreover, Modi and Jaya first have to get acquitted from the court cases, before making a pitch for the top job. Given the fact the speed which the justice moves in our country, it is not going to be over very soon, not before 2014.
You cannot have a PM with sword hanging over his/her head. If the court verdict is unfavourable, it will be a PR *** political disaster and a total embarrassment to see the PM having to resign under such circumstances .
5) Congress in all likelihood will announce a some major initiative like NREGA in its 2013 budget to get an advantage..That is politics.
6) You said, inflation/rupee going down and it will favour Modi. How? What has he done to bring down the inflation?
Similarly you just mentioned the state of economy and terrorism issue will favour Modi, Will you please elaborate in detail as to how?
Gopi Thomas has been telling us how great Achutanandan was . Well some people will have a different view , and here is the reason
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Home > Business > Special
Kerala vs Bengal: A tale of 2 Leftist chief ministers
George Iype | September 19, 2006
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One party, one ideology, but two diametrically opposed action plans.
The path taken by reformist West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee and conservative Kerala Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan has landed the Communist Party of India (Marxist) into a heated ideological debate.
At the heart of the debate is the crucial question: who is taking the right decisions as chief minister — Bhattacharjee or Achuthanandan?
When the CPI-M leaders steadfastly oppose foreign direct investments in sectors such as telecom, insurance, banking and retail, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh calls up Bhattacharjee to tone down the Left’s objections.
And Opposition leaders in Kerala always blame and ridicule Achuthanandan, asking him to look to the east — to West Bengal — and see how Bhattacharjee has become one of India’s most reformist chief ministers.
CPI-M leaders admit the styles of the two chief ministers are entirely different and that both the states are governed according to the social milieu. “There is no clash of ideology. I think both West Bengal and Kerala chief ministers are working for the development of their states. But their mode of action may be different,” says CPI-M politburo member S Ramachandran Pillai.
But how differently do Bhattacharjee and Achuthanandan rule West Bengal and Kerala, respectively?
Here is a ready reckoner on the contrasting styles of governance and the stand taken by chief ministers Bhattacharjee and Achuthanandan on key issues:
Foreign direct investment
Bhattacharjee: “Ours is an open policy. We want private capital,” is his oft-repeated policy statement. “We need foreign direct investment, although that does not mean we will allow Americans to sell vegetables here,” the West Bengal chief minister recently said, opposing the Manmohan Singh government’s plans to allow FDI in retail.
Maybe FDI in retail is the only sector that Bhattacharjee has opposed without regard to foreign investment to his state. Bhattacharjee’s cabinet ministers and other state government officials have visited several countries, including the United States and China, inviting FDI into the state in core sectors such as industry, infrastructure, IT and food-processing.
Achuthanandan: Unlike Bhattacharjee, Achuthanandan does not see much benefit in FDI inflows into his state. In fact, last month he sent a letter to Union Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar asking him to abandon the Union government’s plans to allow FDI in agriculture and plantations.
Moreover, Achuthanandan has been steadfastly supporting the Left trade unions in opposing foreign investment into most sectors. The result: Compared to other Indian states, Kerala lags behind pathetically in attracting FDI into the state.
Ban on Coca-Cola and Pepsi
Bhattacharjee: He is against banning Coke and Pepsi, in the wake of recent studies that allegedly found high levels of pesticides in colas. “The central government should take a stand and make it clear whether the products are safe or not. State governments should not impose the ban independently,” Bhattacharjee said after seven states partially or fully banned the sale of Coke and Pepsi last month.
The West Bengal chief minister added: “I don’t drink either, but we are not going to ban it.”
Achuthanandan: He was the first chief minister in India to impose a total ban on the sale and manufacture of Pepsi and Coke in Kerala last month. In fact, in the last few years, Achuthanandan had led the anti-Coke campaign for shutting down the Coca-Cola plant at Plachimada in Kerala’s Palakkad district. “We will not allow MNCs to produce colas that are injurious to people’s health,” Achuthanandan said.
Achuthanandan: The Dubai Internet City wanted to set up a Smart City — an exclusive global IT park — on a 100-acre plot of land by investing nearly Rs 300 crore (Rs 3 billion) in Kochi in Kerala. But the man who has opposed it most is Achuthanandan.
He dubbed DIC as ‘a real estate company’ and re-examined the agreement that his predecessor former Congress chief minister Oommen Chandy had entered into with the Dubai government.
“There are clauses that go against Kerala’s interests. So we do not want the Smart City,” Achuthanandan said soon after becoming Kerala’s chief minister. Now, he wants the DIC to enter into a new agreement with the Left government.
Bhattacharjee: Kerala’s loss may be West Bengal’s gain. Soon after news broke that the Left-led Kerala government was not interested in setting up the Smart City, Bhattacharjee sent a high-level official team, led by the West Bengal chief secretary to Dubai. West Bengal offered 400 acres of land on the outskirts of Kolkata to DIC to set up the Smart City without the difficult conditionalities that the Kerala government had proposed. The Dubai Internet City is now evaluating Bhattacharjee’s proposal.
Mahesh wanted to know why I said this-
‘Is Advani, an intrinsically decent man, ultimately responsible for lighting a fire whose embers are, only now, cooling down ”
” Was it so difficult for muslims to give away an old decrepit mosque, esp after a 1000 year history of iconoclastic orgy ”
Hindus should look into their hearts and answer the first question above, and muslims the second one. In their respective answers lies the future of India. ‘
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 10:18 am
In all humility, I do not think Hindus owe any community any answer as far as the Ram Mandir issue goes. The dispute is more than 100 years old and even after conclusively proving that there was a temple under the dilapidated, disputed structure, on the ruins of which it was super-structured, majority of the Muslims do not want to accept the proof and are now in SC asking for the Hindus to get out of the complex and also build the mosque for them..
A news that has the potential of several 9/11 rolled into one , is discussed vigorously and reported in uk media.Palestine is going to UN asking for statehood. America has been put on the spotlight. Britain will abstain . USA will have to VETO. The hypocrisy will be laid bareONE MORE TIME, democracy and freedom is good for Libya , not for palestine. Apparently there is upcoming election in Florida and JEWISH LOBBY is in overdrive to scuttle any chance of palestanian statehood. Obama saddled with an ailing economy , doesn’t have the balls . Though it may be another BIN LADEN moment , if he can bite the bullet and force through the statehood. Israel knows its cover is blown and the game is up . SO IT WANTS TO NEGOTIATE (read deep freezer tactics)
YET THE COURSE OF HISTORY MAY CHANGE WITH ONE SINGLE US RATIONAL AND HONEST DECISION.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Have you ever met a Palestinian? I have met many. They are as much human as anybody minus Hamas.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:21 pm
I have met many , they are not accepted as arabs by the rest of middle east.
The answer Mahesh is one of accommodation. In 1975, India walked into Sikkim and took it over. I trekked to base camp Kanchenjunga in 1981- the Sikkimese had no problems. The only ones who jumped up and down were the Chinese.
Well, the muslim population is not like the Sikkimese. So-
1. Hindus need to say- no more communal rath yatras. Mandir banana hi hai, then make a few grand temples where no mosque exists, outside the city limits of Varanasi, Ayodhya and Mathura.
2. Muslims need to say- this decrepit mosque – let it go. Like the Shias of Lucknow who donated money for the Ram temple in Ayodhya (as Balwinder praa said- one small step from the muslims will bring them decades of goodwill)
So Mahesh, therein lies the future of India.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:41 pm
A trillion dollar economy can afford a few hundred dollars for a few grand temples
make up for Somnath
may even spice up the tourism economy
and the muslim community should say- of course
Dr Mishra Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 6:44 pm
anyone like my golfing photo ? it was minus 2 degrees and the pond was frozen- we were actually bouncing balls of the surface !!!
My friend you see here- Kris- is as mad as I – we play through rain and snow if we have to
WHAT A LOVELY ADDICTION, I have many
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 7:01 pm
In fact India should impose a ban on building any religious places. There is hardly any place left for Human and we are unnecessary wasting space for unseen Bhagwan/Allah/God.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 3:00 am
Good point, but religion is such a big business in India, with lots of unaccounted income, so no chance of a ban.
AshishC Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 4:36 am
I could not agree more with Rajeev; we have enough and more religious places in this country- let the decrepit ones be restored by the community; if they must. But, NO new ones.
mohanrr Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 7:32 am
Exaxctly my thoughts. There should be no temples/gurdwaras/mosques/churches. Pray at home only.
This is an outstanding blog..perhaps the most honest one in last few years. It exposes Congress and Congress friendly media (subtly hinting towards journos who propped up Bhushan CD). A must read for Congress supporters also. Pl. do read to the last word.
The two men Congress fears most and why – Anna and Modi Minhaz Merchant
20 September 2011, 05:53 PM IST
During the last few months, Anna Hazare’s crusade against corruption has ripped the masks off several distinguished faces. We thought the Niira Radia tapes had exposed the cozy nexus between power brokers and senior journalists. But since Anna’s campaign took off in April, a few otherwise excellent media organisations have compounded the folly by launching choreographed attacks on anti-corruption activists.
Proximity breeds complicity. If journalists get too close to their subjects, they end up losing objectivity. Reporting on politics requires keeping politicians at arms length. Tap sources for authentic information. But the moment you become an instrument in the hands of a political party you forfeit your status as an impartial watchdog of the government.
The media must have a constructive but adversarial relationship with the government – whether it’s the Congress at the Centre or the BJP in Karnataka. The fourth estate has a responsibility to the fifth estate – the public whom we all serve and whose trust we hold – to be a tough but fair observer of the other three estates: the executive, legislature and judiciary.
Take two recent examples of choreographed journalism which violated that public trust. It was deliberately misreported that Anna Hazare had called voters “corrupt”. He had in fact said on record – in the context of the Tamil Nadu assembly elections – that politicians were corrupting voters by bribing them with cash and TV sets. This factual statement was distorted with clear mala fide intent through synchronized editorials, op-ed articles, front-page reports and slanted TV commentary.
The second example of choreographed journalism was the spate of motivated reports on Prashant and Shanti Bhushan’s doctored CD which appeared on the front pages of two newspapers – and disappeared as rapidly once the required damage to the reputation of the two key Team Anna members had been accomplished.
Why is the Congress in particular – and other political parties in general – so fearful of Anna that they wilfully distort what he says? The answer: his anti-corruption campaign cuts the corrupt political class to its bone. Those who cannot be defeated must be discredited with the help of friendly newspapers and TV channels.
The Congress fears only one outcome: losing power. Its anger at Anna Hazare stems from the realisation that he has turned the tide of public opinion – perhaps decisively – against it. Losing power means losing access to the huge cache of black money from kickbacks in mining leases, land allocations and public-private-partnership contracts that all governments in office – Congress, BJP, BSP – covet.
The only national-level threat to the Congress is the BJP. It is therefore central Congress strategy to discredit it at every opportunity. This is best achieved by creating a fear psychosis among ordinary Muslims that a BJP-led government at the Centre will leave them vulnerable to communal riots and discrimination. True secularism educates and enriches Muslims as opposed to faux secularism that impoverishes them and places them in neat, exploitable little votebanks. All thoughtful leaders of the Muslim community must urgently ponder: for how long will they remain complicit in exploiting their own people?
Most political parties in power – whether the Congress at the Centre or the BJP in the states – use black money to enrich themselves. The number of crorepati-MPs has risen exponentially from 156 in the 2004 Lok Sabha to 315 in the 2009 Lok Sabha. Significantly, the number of MPs with criminal chargesheets filed against them has also risen during the same period – from 128 to 162.
Anna’s demand to clean up this deeply tainted political system has been termed “blackmail” – again by the same cabal of government-friendly media. That turns the definition of blackmail on its head. Who is blackmailing whom? Those who practice the politics of smear or those who are victims of it?
The Congress watched Narendra Modi’s self-purification exercise earlier this week with growing trepidation. The party knows it is now caught in a pincer movement. Anna has turned the secular middle-class away from it. Modi could do the same with a much larger mass Hindu majority fed up with the government’s soft-on-terror, soft-on-Pakistan line which keeps its Muslim votebank fearful and captive. Those who create such communal paranoia claim to protect minorities but in fact marginalize them as Muslims rather than treating them as Indians first.
Anna and Modi have different agendas. They have little in common ideologically. But together their supporters form an electoral juggernaut which could send the Congress’s national voteshare plunging in the next Lok Sabha election from 28.55% to below 25%. The last time that happened was in the 1998 Lok Sabha poll. The Congress won 25.82% national voteshare then and 141 Lok Sabha seats. It sat in Opposition for the next six years. It is the fear of history repeating itself that drives the Congress strategy to discredit Anna and demonise Modi with more than a little help from its distinguished friends in the media.
There are chances that Anna may become rat he keeps doing Anshan…
चूहा और शेर
एक चीता सिगरेट का सुट्टा लगाने ही वाला था कि अचानक वहां एक चूहा आ गया।
चूहा बोला : भाई छोड़ दो नशा और आओ मेरे साथ देखो ये जंगल कितना खूबसूरत है।
चीता चूहे के साथ चल दिया।
आगे एक हाथी कोकीन पी रहा था।
चूहा फिर बोला : भाई छोड़ दो नशा, आओ मेरे साथ देखो ये जंगल कितना खूबसूरत है।
हाथी भी साथ चल दिया।
आगे शेर शराब पीने की तैयारी कर रहा था, चूहे ने उसे भी वही कहा।
शेर ने ग्लास साइड में रखकर चूहे को 5-6 थप्पड़ मारे।
हाथी बोला : अरे क्यों मार रहे हो इस बेचारे को?
शेर बोला : इस कमीने ने पिछ्ली बार भी अफीम खाकर मुझे 3 घंटे जंगल में ऐसे ही घुमाया था।
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 7:46 pm
Desi ghee in excess is not good for you, it will clog-up your arteries.
Where as Olive Oil, is universally good, even in half measures.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 7:57 pm
Are you suggesting that we should go all the way Italian style?? I will go with Desi ghee anyday rather than Olive Oil.
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:20 pm
You are not in active medicine any more , thus your comment. A drop of gheee for the smell is okay , but olive oil wins hands down any day. Though now we know that the high cholesterol people have , is less due to dietary fat , but more due to overproduction by the liver , so called Metabolic Syndrome. As you know only 20% of total cholesterol is from dietary sources , 80% is endogenous. Though low cholesterol diet has an influence in depressing the cholesterol receptors in the liver.
Blimey this will awaketh the green eyed monster in a certain blogger.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Do not know any green eyed monster, but you are right, as far as Cholesterol goes. Though, I am not seeing patients, it does not preclude me to read and research.
I prefer olive oil (from Iraq).
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 10:30 pm
@ravi, How was your Shankar Ehsan Loy in Royal albert hall.
I am planning to see the play KITCHEN in southbank , but all the stalls are booked and only the far away seats are available for the weekend.So I am going to try nearer the time.Have you seen JERUSALEM , it was hailed the greatest play of 21st century.The opening scene was brain shattering.I have never seen anything like it. There is no story as such , just a collage of scenes from modern britain, which homes in the message.The jerusalem is the poetry by William Blake where he describes england a tranquill beautiful land full of angels and fairies like the biblical jerusalem . No body can beat the english playrights in wit sarcasm and irony. If you ever get a chance don’t miss it.If they have a second opening i will see it again
AshishC Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 4:55 am
koi jeene ke liye khaata hai aur koi khaane ke liye jeeta hai!
Incidentally, I remember Dr Devi Shetty (one of the leading cardiac surgeons in India) say once -in response to a pointed question asking him to recommend one cooking oil vs another- “all oils are bad, period”.
So, theek hai; I will live a shorter life- but I will try to have a happier life!
Ravi Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 8:51 am
I am sure you guessed that my recommendation was just as much symbolic as it was medicinal.
The notion all oils are bad is a scientific heresy as oils are essential for optimal functioning of body cells.
AshishC Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:59 am
As an aside- why are we discussing cooking oil?
What Shetty meant was that in Indian cooking, with our penchant for deep-frying things, it does not matter what oil you use- you tend to use them in excess anyway.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 1:03 pm
A disclaimer, it may make certain people become green with envy
Indian cooking despite deep frying or shallow frying or bhuna is STILL FAR FAR FAR HEALTHY than the western cooking which is pure ANIMAL FAT AND BUTTER, the worst one to have.Yet despite consuming enormous amount of butter and LARD (pure animal fat) the FRENCH HAVE A VERY LOW INCIDENCE OF HEART ATTACK.This is known as the FRENCH PARADOX.This is thought to be due to the WINE that the french drink ALL DAY LONG like water. The wine provides some kind of antioxidants.
The ultralatest theory propounded by an american pathologist turns all previous theories on its head.
It proposes that the clogging of arteries may be some kind of INFLAMATORY PROCESS , like arthritis.
this is very new , but he is no mug , he has lot of evidence to back his claim.
At the moment very high saturated fats like butter and ANIMAL FAT is risk factor , so is SMOKING , high BP
also of the fat the real culprit is TRANS FATTY ACIDS
which by law is now removed from all cooking oil in UK
ASIANS are more VULNERABLE than goras , not explained clearly why , cenrtipetal fat in the tummy is a big factor along with diabetes , ALSO ALL INDIANS IN UK ARE LAZY BUMS , never take any exercises
Devi Shetty can visit these blogs , he will be enlightened.
What do you say about this very BENGALI scam? Chullu bhar paani mein doob maro
Anonymous Reply:September 21st, 2011 at 9:46 pm
you seem to have confused bengalees with bangladeshis. You are not the first , your very dear friend Ravi , did the same mistake, and you wont be the last.
However this kind of petty corruption is nothing compared to WIN CHADDHA AND NANDA’S arms dalali corruption by virtue of being son of Admiral Nanda.
And Jyoti basu’s son’s tranformation from a lowly clerk of Bengal lamp to multimillionaire is a much better example.Though bengalis have been really laggard in this field , butthey are catching up , though a long way to go
There is no difference except for nationality and religion. Both are Bengali people…resident of greater Bengal. I know my geography well.
I was just trying to point out that Bengalis are still stuck in middle age variety of corruption whereas south Indians are not indulging in spectrum. Learn from them.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:54 am
Like you are suggesting graduate from eve teasing to child rape . Well that’s your view , you are entitled to it.But do not try it in UK or Germany , USA is probably ok
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 7:07 am
No difference in nationality and religion. Same can be said about English and Irish , are you suggesting Churchill can be passed off as an Irish.For that matter how about saying no difference between Rajiv and Kasab, BOTH PUNJABIS, OTHER THAN NATIONALITY AND RELIGION
I know the only thing that gets certain intelectually challenged bloggers perked up is Rabid Pakistan Bashing. There is certainly one who hasn’t written one grain of truth on any technical or other matters. I had mentioned SHALE GAS in an earlier blog. Nobody made any comments , mention the B word(not b a s t ar d) and see the swarm of flies. A group of investors are proposing to dig under lancashire soil , apparently there is six times the north sea gas lying there.Shale gas is gas lying between the geological rocks. Thus it is far far more difficult to extract, than the sea or sand drilling.
however there has been a breakthrough in technology and it is known a s fracking (uncannily similar sounding to a biological act). India must look into this shale gas in its territory.
I think peple missed the point when I said that – ‘ A trillion dollar economy can afford a few hundred dollars for a few grand temples- make up for Somnath ‘
In the centuries to come, tourism will be one of the biggest industries, the world over. You can have only so many Himalayan or seaside resorts, the next big thing is culture and architecture.
IN lONDON- St Paul’s Cathedral, Westminster Abbey
In Rome- St Peter’s basilica
Thailand- the various Budhha temples
etc – all these are great draws. Once built they last for centuries or thousands of years and draw in tourist dollar
surprised that rajeev, ashish and pankaj missed this point- too much secularism??
India does deserve a few world class temples after a millenia of neglect and destruction- after all, barring Nepal we are the only hindu country in the world
On TV last night there was despair on the face of a lady who was there in the audience.She was worried how the Govt of India was functioning , but there more despair and concern on the face of the Panelist. The Finance Ministry wrote the memo on 25 March 2011 to the PM . What did he do about it ? ….Nothing.
In my childhood days in Allahabad , there was common saying. In the office of the AG UP , baboos went to office , hung their coat on the chair and went off to Civil Lines to watch movies. What does the PM of India do ? He does a 9 to 5 , 5 day week office job. As a headline in a newspaper screams ” Knives are out in UPA over 2G ” Is there anyone in the Government who will reassure the country , there is a govt in place. Who will explain how a common citizen shall survive today on Rs 32/- a day. ..All the recent cases of bomb blasts remain unsolved…. CAG comes out with stories of mismangement and wastage of public money with regular frequency… And the ruling dispensation keeps looking at person to provide all answers and the helth of that person is a mystery for the country.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 7:03 am
The country is in a drift. There is no one in congress to steer the country to a better future.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 7:24 am
Is there a government in place?
Yes, but it is misplaced.
What about the health of the government?
The health of the government is closely linked to that of the leader.
The leader is suffering from an undisclosed illness.
Her government is suffering from several diseases, some disclosed, a few closed (to public view).
yatha rajah, thatha sarkar.
Once Manmohan Singh retires, he can sleep 9 to 5 (9PM to 5AM).
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 9:34 am
The TV panelist , an expert on this government , and we are all familiar with him , unlike before did not smile , but looked grim and worried . The congress spokesperson said we reject the charge against Chidambaram and we have no doubts about his integrirty. This act is an act of mischief . Then are they going to take action against Pranab Mukerjea?
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 7:59 am
First of all, this new format for Sharma’s blog is terrible…not at all user friendly–more like the congress Govt!
A BJP govt at the centre will not be much different either from an efficiency perspective.. Many state govts too.. We (Biharis) let Lalloos and Rabris ruin the place..so also in many other states….
Hazare movement or something like that, if it survives, is the only way the nation will come out..
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Tell me wha problems u r facing. Maybe I can solve them..
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 9:16 am
See the blog of 14 months back, the nations mood was on an upswing. It is the chandal chowkdi of Amar Singh, Mani AIyar, Digviansh and Gaffe Prone AMaul baba who have bought this day.
Frankly if all o fhtem resign and go back… things will change… in public perception
Reports from Washington and elsewhere informs ISI was openly involved in the Kabul attacks. We knew they were always behind as planners in many attacks, but in this one they were also actively involved in actual operations too.
These rogue colonels will attack India, if not for anything else, to provoke reaction from us. I wonder our frozen govt has any action plans or whether they are relying on the resilience of Indians, allocating 1 lakh or 3 lakh rupees per dead citizen.
btw Naqvi’s column in Dawn states how the capitalists are using Modi and Anna to destroy India…he always was crazy and loony, looks like he should be institutionalized and not allowed to write!
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 8:16 am
I think it would take a strong ruler to bring Pakistan to its knees. The Americans have tried all strategies, but the lies, deceit an backstabbing the Pakistanis practice have made the US only fail.
In the end the US won’t back of so easily. It might just do an Iraq type attack, for which the Pakistanis are preparing by inviting CHina into their house.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 8:41 am
The only way to deal with these rogue elements within the army/ISI who are not 8under anybody’s control, is defensive, I think; for offence will bring too many thngs at the doorstep including a probable nuclear attack.
Our army generals are no different from other gvt officers in terms of corruption; the question is, are we adequately prepared so that the crazies do not sneak through the borders. Or, have the generals stolen the money that is supposed to be for border fence, satellitee tc
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 8:49 am
I dont think the Indian army is really corrupt. They could be some petty misuse of privelages like passing army quota booze to a friend, but on the whole the forces are pretty honest compard to civilians. Unfortunately many scams like Bofors etc were done by civillians as the decison making rested with the PM or the MInistry.
yes the arms purchase and equipment could be rusty as it all rests with the Ministry and bureaucrats who go slow ever since Bofors happened
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:52 am
Weren’t the generals a willing particpant in the Adarsh fiasco?
You are right that they may be comparatively less corrupt.. But like a cancer the corruption spreads all over the body politic
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 12:22 pm
My experience with army and serivices people is that they are straight. Only lately there name has been dragged into the mud by the media and politicans wanting to settle scores.
I hope it does not demoralise our forces.
Vijay, as you mentioned booze at discounted rates… let that be a special prievelages which they treat their friends and relatives. They are willing to give their lives for us. Let us not hound them unecessarily
Again I am having a problem posting anything. I hope this will work.
Aye Ghalib mat pee Masjid main baith kar
Ek hi botal hai kahin Khuda na maang le.
Have a tipsy weekend guys.
©4darnleystreet, welcome bak dr shan, have you come bak pareshan ? You sound calmer, gud. Hope it lasts, r u on lithium.
i shall not slam you. But remember any more of tbese and you will feel the heat=
white arsse liking
lies about urologists, teachers, farmers and bengal GDP
I missed you, every blog must have a Nirodh Chowdhry for entertainment
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 9:41 am
@mohan, pl u book bed on dr mishras ward for treatment of alcoholic cirrhosis in 2015. Also rememberghalibs wine fuels desire……………kills performance
dr shan is cursed= no desire, no performance. He is 34 years old and stll unmarried, vaary lonely
i missed you so much dr shan, I know u r enjoying cyber spanking, lets admit it, u love it
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:06 am
Challa bondhu ,useless blabber , lets simply IGNORE
An excerpt from the CNN IBN website
“The sources said the prime minister also counseled Chidambaram to be patient till he returns home from New York on September 27.
The “secret” note was not shown to him, Singh is believed to have told Chidambaram, who was the Finance Minister during 2G spectrum allocation. ”
PM of India kept himself at “arm’s length” from all correspondence on 2G , even within his own office.
~~ WHY GORAS GIVE ARMS TO PAKISTAN– kickbacks to Pakistanis as WELL
AS GORA LEADERS LIKE SARKOZY ~~~
Many of us are preptually puzzled why the GOra countries keep supplying arms to Pakistan, despite it being a failed state which will evenutally blow up the world one day. The Ameericans, The French, The british… sab saala nanga hai.
Kickbacks baby !! Kickbacks !! all for people like Sarkozy and such people….
Gora bhi kaala hai… Kaala bhi gora hai
Read on… today’s DAWN
Sarkozy allies drawn into Karachi kickbacks affair Reuters
(8 hours ago)
PARIS: A friend of French President Nicolas Sarkozy was arrested and another placed under investigation on Wednesday over their possible role in a corruption case linked to arms sales and deadly bombing in Pakistan, lawyers and police sources said.
The development brings the so-called “Karachi Affair” back into the spotlight seven months before a presidential election that polls show Sarkozy would lose if it were to be held today.
Thierry Gaubert, a friend and advisor to Sarkozy for many years, was placed under investigation on suspicion that he carried cash kickbacks from the sale of submarines to Pakistan back to France in suitcases.
Nicolas Baziere, who was a witness to Sarkozy’s wedding with Carla Bruni in 2008, was arrested and being held in police custody over allegations that he received delivery of the kickbacks from Gaubert in Paris.
Both Baziere and Gaubert deny the accusations.
“He disputes anything to do with political financing,” Francois Esclatine, a lawyer for Gaubert, told Reuters.
Their legal troubles mark a twist in a complex case that aims to determine if a 2002 bomb attack in Karachi in which 11 French workers were killed was reprisal against France over its decision to stop paying commissions to Pakistan in arms sales.
It also envelops French politics because judges suspect that kickbacks helped to finance the presidential campaign of Edouard Balladur, a conservative and former prime minister, in 1995.
Baziere was chief of staff for Balladur, who denies the accusations.
Victims’ families have called for Sarkozy — who was budget minister under Balladur and spokesman for his campaign — to answer questions about the kickbacks and an elaborate financial setup allegedly designed to ferry home the money.
Sarkozy’s office brushed off the accusations in November, 2010, saying they “concerned him in no way”, and the president is immune from prosecution while in office.
When questioned about the kickbacks in late 2010 Sarkozy erupted at journalists, telling a group in Lisbon that linking him to the case was as absurd as him calling one of them a paedophile without any proof.
“It is clear that if Nicolas Sarkozy was not currently president of the republic, he would be heard because the paths lead to his responsibility,” said Olivier Morice, a lawyer for the victims’ families. – Reuters
Sanjay_Mittal Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:12 am
This is a sad story. The West gives us lectures on morality. However their own leaders too use arms deals to finance their elections. The English have likewise a huge relationship going on with Gadaffi and Libya.,.. Possibly and surely kickbacks to the English rulers might have happened
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:28 am
This shows double standards by the Europeans and th Americans. Their leaders sell the arms and also make money thru kickbacks… much like zinidans do
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:49 am
It just shows the vaunted “democracy” is really really expensive for contestants — be in India, or in Europe or in USA. The only one issue on which all democrat and republican senators and congress in US agree is the protection of Jews and Israelis – why, because they foot the election bill! Similar thing here too- Reddy brothers fund BJP elections, Ambani funds both BJP and Congress, Mining interests funded YSR, Jagan, and congress. Contestants need lots and lots of money to contest elections. Be it Sarkozy or Karunanidhi or Rahul Gandhi!..
As I age, I do have serious concerns whether democracy is the right form of govt..
May be it is lesser of all other bad forms …
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 1:50 pm
I think the developed and so called rich countries have made a fuddu of the rest of the world by selling arms to both sides in a war. Absolute immoral.
Now that the Sarkozy connection has come out, it just proves that their moral high speak is at times based on the kickbacks they are getting from their submarine and gun comapanies.
Its a cruel world where the arms dealers are willing to sell technology, despite knowing that this will one day lead to the bombs and maybe nukes falling in the hands of Hafeez Saeed.
Sorry Darnsley and Shan… If you support this , despite knowing that this will pollute the world. I think you should go to some forest and watch the amzing beauty of leaves and trees which you want destroyed, just because you feel that the white man is always right …
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 2:43 pm
What you write is TYPICAL indian sentimental TOSH,
what i write is grounded in reality.THIS IS ALSO KNOWN AS PANIPAT SYNDROME, this high moral ground malaki , will lead to further enslavement like it did for 1000 yrs.
ALSO REMEMBER AESOP’S FABLE
GRAPES ARE SOUR
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Vijay u r riight !! For the past twenty years I used to wonder what fascination Pakistan had for the US, that it would keep giving it arms. It is likely that some of the US politicians as well as the Pakistani politicians made a huge amount of money in the process.
Mr Darning… I think you have a funny name. But you should consider the points Vijay has listed bcos peace and environmental safety is better than profits for arms dealers.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:09 pm
No system of governance is perfect. IMO, democracy with all its faults and shortcomings (I suppose that is price one has to pay) is the preferred from of governance ( lesser of all the evils). The principal reason is that it allows people to express disapproval of the party(s) in power at the time of elections – a sort of letting off pent-up anger. In free democratic countries, very remote chance of jasmine type of revolutions or use of violence to overthrow the entrenched rulers
Regarding funding of parties by the rich/vested interests, my view is that once we have state funding of elections, it would get reduced drastically.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:11 pm
I dont know whether a benevelonent kingdom (like travancore king who could take billions and didnt take)..or even a state capitalism a ka Chinese model may be better ..China has corruption; but far less (mainly due to the fear)..they are able to focus and get things done– be bettere education, uplifting std of living, world class universities etc etc..People do not seem to be too upset without the type of freedom we have..I know at some time in future theer may be a bloody revolution — but it looks like the chinese govt is doing everything to avoid that; and bring “freedoms” slowly… but it is a wild card..
but a party in perm power , and mot an individual or family does make sense as long as the party reflects a plurality of people’s aspirations -=-in that sebse it is a democracy, although a little flawed…arent all democracies flawed.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:23 pm
I did not answer ur questions earlier on Modi. I am not a BJP or Congress; but presently leaning to BJP because of the impotency and stupidity of Congress. I was listing Modi as the only leader from the current crop of political leaders who can execute against the many “bad” thinhs India/world will face in 2 years. Was not giving an endorsement to BJP, but Modi. Modi, Jaya, ad to some extent naidu are the only leaders I can think of among the current dcrop– Do you have some( irrespective of party– congress as wella sothers) you think will be better to deal with the 7-8 issues I mentioned earlier ..
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:32 am
I have no problems with your touching faith and confidence in the leaders named by you. Each has a right to hold an opinion and I will defend that right of others – however unpalatable the opinion/view might be.
If you have to look at an alternative to the present dispensation, why do you rule out Nitish Kumar? Like him, Modi, Jaya and Naidu too are regional or state specific leaders and yet have to make the transition to the national level. Let me frank with you – practically all these regional leaders are megalomaniacs (Modi included). The exception being Nitish and is known across the length and breadth of the country and that without any “unwanted” baggage. The problem with these leaders is that they do have not had any national ambitions (yes,yes Modi is an exception) – in many cases the name of the party itself gives the game away. The only leader who tried to go national was Sharad Pawar (his party’s names suggests as much), but has met with very limited success. His party keeps winning few (a very insignificant number indeed to have an impact) seats in some of the states. We can discuss him in detail some other time.
I do not see anyone in Congress or the BJP either at the moment. Yes, not Rahul Gandhi either. There is a real deficit. No one seems to have the magic wand. Running a state administration and the central government are altogether different ball games. No guarantee a successful state administrator will be a hit at the centre – one might get hit instead.
However, when the right time comes, we always get a leader. In 2004, it was Dr. Manmohan Singh. So perhaps we must wait and watch.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Nitish is good; however, anybody can (if they really want) create progress in Bihar because of the real bad situation on the ground .. Again, I am keeping parties out (I know at the end of the day party decides) ..strictly looking at individuals and who will be the best based on demonstrated accomplishments..
Modi, if he were in congress, would have become PM 8 years ago!
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 8:13 pm
“Modi, if he were in congress, would have become PM 8 years ago! ”
This is amazing. I am at a loss for words.
Perhaps, you could start another thread to the extra-ordinary conjecture you have come up with and see the reactions of others.
PS: Are you by any chance Narendra Modi and using an alias Gopi Thomas? Just joking.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 5:54 am
The world has been a very bad place. I am not sure whether China (as it is today) will last for very long time (I am not talking in terms of years, but in decades). The mighty Soviet Union had to give way. People are bound to demand their rights and the people who enforce the rules on the ground – the police and the army – are also people themselves from the same society and not imported from some place else. See what happened in Egypt and Libya – the security forces turned against their masters either out of real love for people’s power or to be on the right side to secure their own future.
The King of Travancore is a very rare species indeed. There is no guarantee if anyone put in place in good faith will be another benevolent one, in fact history is replete where it was not to be and then it required a struggle (violent mostly) to eject them. Take recent examples of Gaddafi and Mubarak – they came on the scene on account of massive goodwill, confidence and aspirations of the people. Look at their tragic end.
The world keeps proving the adage – power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely with unfailing regularity.
IMO, the best system is where the enduring power and stability flows through the ballot box and not through the barrel of a gun.
India (and many other truly democratic societies) has been fortunate that we have system where the loser gracefully steps aside and lets whoever else to take his/her place, so one knows who can offer better governance. I cannot visualise any better system – do you, if so, please elaborate.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 11:40 am
Gora countries are bound by oath to speak Haryanvi or Bhojpuri ARE THEY.
They WILL SELL ARMS LIKE HELL ,
BOYS DONT CRY
India should SELL ARMS TO WHOEVER WANTS TO BUY, BUT FOR THAT YOU NEED TO PRODUCE ARMS , NOT IMPORT THEM
Remember the old adage JISKA DANDA USKA BHAINS
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm
@ Mr Darnley street
I must say you have a rather strange name !
I think selling arms to terrorist nations is immoral. You cant complain that a particular is spreading terror in case you first lace it up with ammunation. This article highlights how the western countries and their leaders drain out scarce resources from the poorer nations for the illicit funds of their leaders.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Mittal ,not the billionaire,
How much morality is there when 50% of the population goes hungry , yet you see the orgy of conspicious consumption ,in Delhi , Mumbai and bangalore when you see mukesh ambani build a TWO BILLION dollar worth pad bang in middle of a SEA OF SLUMS AROUND
Pseudo Secularist and Congress stooge like you and Xn controlled media will waste no time to criticize BJP. Even if Modi deliver Heaven, still you utter hell have more facility. Modi is the hope and dream of new generation for better tomorrow. He is the best leader who knows Governance. Other pseudo secular parties fear their family political business will be finished if Modi come. So they oppose.
Where is Prabhat? Is he OK?
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 1:44 pm
I dunno. Last time he said he was back from a trek in the mountains.
I hope he has not become a sanyasi… ramdev and Modi too had stayed in the mountains. Maybe Prabhat is following their footsteps…
Dear sanjay mittal
you are right, there is immorality in the west arming the worlds worst dictators. In fact US has armed our region with stingers and all and India pays price. But this fact is wasted on our darnley street Dr Shan who is self confessed worlds biggest white assss licker.
We labelled his condition as Shwetha_lingam aakarshan, Mr Shenoy who had beeen abused by shan called him shwetha_lingam upbhogta. Noone believes shan is doctor.
welcome to best bog on planet, mittal, beware it has a bitr. Hehe
sandhu from hayes
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Dear sanjay mittal , you have made out by now this Balwinder is a CRETIN.
He has four brain cells of which two are on the blink. He however knows one thing very well , infact that is how he makes his living , that is KABUTERBAJI or human trafficking. i had quoted news report from BBC showing how illegal immigrants are exploited by the traffickers like him.
also he may be in his mid seventies , had his prostate operation done , so has no ejaculation , so he uses BANNANA instead
Pakistan as a state has been involved in terrorism for 30 years now. Before that after exterminating Hindus and Sikhs , they just killed Bengalis in East Bengal. Now USA says that Pak state is directly involved in terrorism in Afghanistan ! Is this something that USA came to know 24 hours ago ? This has been going on for past 2-3 decades. Pakistan is the source of terrorism against India, Afganistan and the world as a host of Al-Qaida and enabler of terrorist groups from LeT to JeM. USA had chosen to ignore it and has been the largest financier and enabler of this criminal state. Pakistan knows that US administration, CIA, Defense chiefs etc change every few years and there is a guaranteed supply of newer fools. So far Pak has been right in its estimation that USA is a incorrigible fool who can be defrauded infinitely.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
So far Pak has been right in its estimation that USA is a incorrigible fool who can be defrauded infinitely.
in view of the above lines as articulated by you is it unreasonable to infer that you are also a bigger fool having taken up US greencard so as to be permanently in the company of fools, , before one could count ten
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:19 pm
DrShan u have this moron like stance that cos rajiv is settled in US he cant criticise west. Even goras here wuud not want such white bumm licking.
I sugest pl u chek your Uk visa, it says enyry to Uk permitted. IT DOES NoT SAY that u have to hang out your bumm from yr window giving free entry to goras. And wearing pin striped undies is yr choice but Uk parliament does not insist on it.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
And now Dr shan eill say he only wears union jack undies, pinstripes are for suits and how uncultured Sandhu is not to know difference. Okay shan, you win
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:06 pm
U do seem to react like a fool, frankly. This is a debate on. Rajiiv said something which concerns all of us.
Pakistan is on the road to the end. But if and when it rolls down the cliff, it could well take the rest of the world…
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 9:08 pm
@Sanjay Mittal , US foreign policy is bad , US green card is good. Duplicity not just with pakistanis. You are not well read on US foreign policy. PAKISTAN used to be part of a military alliance with usa,
SEATO.America is not bound by its constitution to LOOK AFTER INDIA’S INTEREST. Pakistan helped USA in delivering sucker punch to russians in afganistan, at that time COLD WAR was the only war america was interested.INDIA IS NO SATI SADHWI, HOW ABOUT NO COMPUNCTION IN DEALING WITH ISRAEL , TO THE EXTENT OF BUYING BILLIONS AND BILLIONS DOLLAR WORTH OF ARMS.
Did India think about the brutal occupation of palestine by the israelis.
Rajiv is a punjabi bramhin thus HYPOCRISYis in his genes , you need not emulate those traits
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:46 am
Shaan Nirad Babu,
you have displayed your abundant ignorance about foreign affairs of the US as well as India.
When India attacked East Pakistan, the US, which was a partner of Pakistan in the Seato, didn’t raise a finger except sending some war ships into the Bay of Bengal, in spite of being duty bound to protect Pakistan. The US actually helped India destroy the idea of Pakistan, by being a looker on.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:15 am
Your foreign policy knowledge is as deep as your comittment to serving your bank loan seeking customers.
INDIA HAD FORMED A TREATY WITH RUSSIA , JUST BEFORE ATTACKING BANGLADESH,
which stipulated RUSSIA WILL JOIN IF THERE IS THIRD PARTY INTERFERENCE, and that included USA AND CHINA
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 2:35 pm
“Your foreign policy knowledge is as deep as your commitment to serving your bank loan seeking customers”.
That is what one should expect from a person who thrives on History according to RSS – full of fairy tales, lies, falsehoods and untruths – a la Goebbels.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Shaan Nirad Babu,
For your kind information (and also to dispel some of your ignorance), Seato was a military pact, enjoining on US to come to its partners’ rescue, in case it is attacked by any hostile country. What India had with the S
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Soviet Union was a friendship treaty not obligatory on Russia to help out India in any military conflict.
This is what Chairman of US defense staff had to say
The US military’s top officer on Thursday accused Pakistan of “exporting” violent extremism to Afghanistan by allowing militants to act as an “arm” of Islamabad’s intelligence service.
“The Haqqani Network … acts as a veritable arm of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Agency,” Admiral Mike Mullen, who steps down this month as chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a US Senate panel.
“With ISI support, Haqqani operatives planned and conducted (a Sept. 11) truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy. We also have credible intelligence that they were behind the June 28 attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations.”
“In choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan —and most especially the Pakistani Army and ISI (intelligence service) — jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership, but also Pakistan’s opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,” said the admiral.
“By exporting violence, they have eroded their internal security and their position in the region. They have undermined their international credibility and threatened their economic well-being,” Mullen said.
The question is so what ? Why does US still finance it through direct aid, IMF Loans, WB loans, re-scduling and loan-pardoning ? Why not impoeconomic and diplomatic sanctions on Pak leaders, civilian, military, ISI ? Who is stopping you ?
Also, not just Haqanni, the LeT, JeM etc too operate directly as terrorist arms of Pak state.
As pointed out by Rajiiv, Pakistan is the master of the art of deception. It will blackmail the world saying that “Give us Aid or we will let the taliban loose on you….”
As Vijay has pointed out, the arms companies could have been the reason for the pro Pakistani tilt of the US Congressmen. But after the Osama fiasco, the US will not believe them at all.
But how far will the US go? Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan awere not nuclear powers so it was easy. Pakisttan has a population of 190 million and nukes. So either the US foments dissent to break Pakistan or it just becomes a brute bomber.
Either ways the Pakistani janata is the loser.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Sanjay, bigger than Pakistani junta, it is the Indian awaam that is the loser. We have taken hit after hit from Pakistan-
Khalistan (pak exacerbated)
bomb blasts galore- diwali etc
Parliament- …………..the list is to depressing
I thought for many years US was all brawn and no brains, but in the last 3 years they have repeatedly shown intelligence in their dealings with Pak-
Kerry Lugar bill
withholding payments this year
summoning Pasha to US this year
telling Gilani they wont meet him
worry for Indians is – what happens when they leave? will kashmir ignite again?
Dr Mishra Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 6:25 pm
sorry point I am making- which Gopi Thomas here is passionate about- USA MUST HAVE A DENUKE PLAN SOMEWHERE
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:40 am
The US cannot remain sanguine or smug that the Pak army or the terrorists would hit only India and not them or the European countries. Therefore it makes good sense for the US to disarm the pakshitstani army of its nukes as early as possible. Once that is done, the life of the parrot will be in their hands; anytime they can squeeze it and India too can breathe easy.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 8:14 am
@ Dr Mishra
being a doctor you may of many a disease which is incurable. Well Pakistan seems to be suffering from one such mental ailment– Hum chahe Allah ko pyaare ho jaayen… par India ko nuksaan zaroor paho-chahengey… ;P
Shoeb, this may interest you. My friend the maverick genius Ravi Prasad will be on Lok Sabha Television tomorrow afternoon 13:15 to 14:15 Friday 23 Sept 2011 on Nuclear Power in Tamil Nadu. InSight program of Lok Sabha TV.
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 9:03 pm
Just saw your golf photo, vaary nice doc saheb. I still play sometime, I think I will also post my tennis photo. Oye all cyberfriends we need photos. Even u Dr shan, but not in your union jack kacchas= this is family blog
Anonymous Reply:September 22nd, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Challa , there is a difference in the class between you and me , you are CRASS , you will not be able to relate with my exchanges with Ravi on steinburg , ibsen or for that matter jez butterworth’s play.So keep your gob shut
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:33 am
you are vaary gooood at hitting below the belt.
Do you want Shaan Babu to appear in his birthday suit?
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:53 am
All should display their photos, but Shaan Nirad Babu may please shwo the X-ray of his head, so that we can confirm that ONLY he has brains, which he claims.
This is a riposte to the utter **** posted by the hypocrite and pathological pakistan hater punjabi bramhin who also hates dalits .PAKISTAN’S LIFE LINE IS CHINA
NOW READ ON
A Deepening Military Bond
China’s role as a major arms supplier for Pakistan began in the 1960s and included assistance in building a number of arms factories in Pakistan and supplying complete weapons systems. “Until about 1990,” write South Asia experts Elizabeth G. M. Parker and Teresita C. Schaffer in a July 2008 CSIS newsletter (PDF), “Beijing clearly sought to build up Pakistan to keep India off balance.” After the 1990 imposition of U.S. sanctions on Pakistan, China became the country’s leading arms supplier. Collaboration now includes personnel training, joint military exercises, intelligence sharing, and counterterrorism efforts. While the relationship is not quite balanced, it has been critically important to Pakistan. “Pakistan needs China more than China needs Pakistan,” says Huang Jing, a China expert at the National University of Singapore. Pakistan has benefited from China’s assistance with the following defense capabilities:
* Missile: Pakistan’s army has both short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, such as the Shaheen missile series, that experts say are modifications of Chinese imports.
* Aircraft: The current fleet of the Pakistani Air Force includes Chinese interceptor and advanced trainer aircraft, as well as an Airborne Early Warning and Control radar system used to detect aircraft. Pakistan is producing the JF-17 Thunder multi-role combat aircraft jointly with China. The K-8 Karakorum light attack aircraft was also coproduced.
* Nuclear Program: China supplies Pakistan with nuclear technology and assistance, including what many experts suspect was the blueprint for Pakistan’s nuclear bomb. Some news reports suggest Chinese security agencies knew about Pakistani transfers of nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea, and Libya. China was also accused of having long-standing ties with Abdul Qadeer Khan (A.Q. Khan), known as the father of the Pakistani nuclear program and head of an international black market nuclear networ
some more chinese largesse to pakistan
SLAMABAD – China has pledged to give an additional assistance of $200 million to flooded Pakistan, totaling China’s aid to $250 million, its largest-ever humanitarian aid to a foreign country, the Chinese embassy in Islamabad said Thursday.
Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao announced the aid at a UN summit in New York on Wednesday, said Huang Xilian, the embassy spokesman.
Breaking News. The news from CERN, that is equivalent to 100 , 9/11 rolled into one
A neutrino fired from the underground tunnels at geneva has travelled to Rome FASTER THAN LIGHT.If this is true , then E=mc2 is dead , the relativity is dead as well . US fermilab is repeating the experiment , something far more interesting than the HACKNEYED pakistan bashing by the well known bramhin pakistan /muslim haters
Now that Vinodji has made this blog so very visually appealing (if impossible to navigate); here’s what I suggest he does in addition to further enhance its appeal.
- please allow us to individually filter out comments from commenters who, fill up 70% of the comments timeline with blabber.
Note: I am not saying whose comments I would love to filter out- (Vinodji, be assured, your comments will be read ) – but, folks here can surely guess!
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:47 am
Would it not be easier to start a bullying campaign against those who spam this blog with supposedly unpopular view points?
Isn’t that what we did once before and have tried twice since then?
AshishC Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 10:06 am
Each to his own style.
I just want to have the freedom to read those with something worthwhile, interesting and even contrary to say. With the pressure on time, I wanted a way to filter those that have “proven noise value”.
Luckily, not many of them here- but the 80-20 rule applies. 80% of garbage from 20, nay less than 5% people.
@all new bloggers
If you can do not engage 4darnleystreet7. If you want to know about him, read previous blogs and his postings in the name ‘Shan’. Nothing exposes him more than his own filth.
Remember a dirty stray dog , by any other name, is still so.
The death of Mansur Ali Khan , known more as Nawab of Pataudi ( at that time we children argued where was Pataudi ), brought back memories of the Cricket as we knew it at that time. A game played only during winter , Test commentary on AIR, and the familiar voices of Manish Deb , Skandgupt ( father of Shubha Mudgal), Dev Raj Puri and expert comments by “Lala”.The cricketers were not style icons , and multi millionaires like present times, and when a Test cricketer took retirement , players played “Benefit” matches for him.. Some of the top cricketers were Farrukh Engineer, Ajit Wadekar, Nawab Pataudi, Abbas Ali Beg, M L Jaisimha,Rusi Surti, Bapu Nadkarni ( tuk tuk all day and runs scored-10), Chandu Borde , Dilip Sardesai, BS Bedi ,Vijayaraghvan, Chandrashekhar, Prassana ….. Our condolences to his family … may his soul rest in peace
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:24 am
how right you are! Even with only newspapers and the radio as sources of information, these cricketers were the nation’s heroes even then and their fan following was no less than what Dhoni and co are enjoying these days.
When I entered high school, the days of Vinoo Mankad, Vijay Hazare( no relation to today’s hero!), Vijay Manjrekar, Polly Umrigar,Tamhane, Gupte, etc had all drawn to a close, though Umrigar played for some years later too.
I join millions of Pataudi’s fans the world over in grieving at his departure.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 7:05 am
I am sure you must have seen the Amol Palekar film ” Choti Si Baat “, a film we never get tired of seeing. Cricket commentary being listened on the Transistor in the office was an integral part of that movie.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 7:26 am
I second your thoughts.
The other commentators, which were household names were Dicky Rutnagar (my favourite), Vijay Merchant, Suresh Saraiya, Chakrapani, Anant Setalvad and R.S.Krishnaswami
In Nov 2010, Suresh Sariaya covered his 100th test match as a commentator.
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 7:57 am
To the notable cricketers of that time we must add:
Manjrekar, Umrigar, and comentator Vizzy Hazare.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 1:51 pm
You are mixing the two Vijay Hazare the cricketer and Vizzy the commentator were two different persons. The latter was Maharaja of Vizianagram (hence nick-named Vizzy). Perhaps the most boring of all the commentators – his drone-like voice was a sure cure for insomnia, but because of his clout as a Maharaja in those days in the Government and the BCCI, he was a regular fixture in the AIR’s commentary team.
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Manohar, you are absolutely correct.
I was talking about the comentating maharaja, who made me fall in love with the game.
Thanks for the correction.
Whatever propaganda Vinod Sharma & gang tries to peddle, NaMo is an idea whose time has come
Thx for the mention of Mansur Ali Khan. Yes Pataudi was a glamour factor in our circketing imagery. Though he had played much before I had started tuning on to the commentary, elders used to talk a lot about his exploits.
I once saw him from close– about 3 yrs back– in a Delhi market. He did look young and fit. Not the state you would assosciate withe someone nearing death. He seemed to be chainsmoking. Maybe that too had an effect, as the reason for his death has been linked to lungs disease.
~~ SHOULD WE SEND FLOOD AID TO PAKISTAN’S MINORITiES???~~~~~
The Dawn gives a sad picture of the minorites– especially scheduled caste Hindus in Pakistan who are deprived of all flood aid. see the link
Is there some ways we can help them directly?
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:43 am
I would have thought that humanitarian aid should be just that and not based on caste and/or religion.
Don’t you think so?
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:54 am
yes my belief is that ultimately everyone with a human with a beating
heart is equal.
Unfortunately the philosphy of Pakistan is so vile and evil that they feel only Sunni Muslims need to be given aid. In fact is we go by their disatster and relief records, they use the occasion for religious conversion to make aid available.
In the present flood situation, this Dawn article higlights how Hindus have been DENIED aid because fo religion. In fact a ruck full of food meant for them wass looted in front of them by the Pakistan police.
So what are they supposed to do? Die or get converted…?
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 10:00 am
The dawn article which i have quoted by itself is gutsy becasue writing such articles in Pakistan gets you into problems.
Here are a few more articles which detail how aid is used to convert christians and Hindus during floods
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 10:35 am
Oh OK…..good catch…..so we are not dealing with a Humanitarian disaster, but a CONVERSION opportunity.
I must be a dumb arse liberal to have not spotted that.
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 10:18 am
So for the policies of Pakistani Establishment, which are oppressing the ORDINARY Pakistani citizens Muslims and Hindus alike, you are prepared to withhold humanitarian aid to poor Pakistani’s who are most affected by this natural disaster.
Sorry mate, I conduct my life not on the basis of what Pakistani’s, Muslims, Hindus, or even Sikhs say or do. I follow my own concision. The fool that I am.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 10:39 am
I think you are deliberately twisting the story. When the facts are about HOW the Pakistani government and NGO’s are denying aid to the minorites like Hindus and Christians while allowing ti to flow to Muslims and this is what the DAWN story is about.
You have twisted it to say that I want AId NOT to flow to the ordinary Pakistanis !! Wah! wah! wah! Ravi …
You certainly try to follow the Paksitani agenda of communal divide, especially in times of disaster..
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 11:31 am
Wah Wah Vijay, Wah Wah, Wah Wah again.
This is what you said above
Is there some ways we can help them directly?
Wah Wah wah wah Vijay, you have swallowed the YAAR YESS YESS AGENDA
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 12:29 pm
I support your views. Humanitarian aid should be for human and not for Dogs of War, of LET, Jamatuddawa and people of that kind. They are the kind of people, who will take your aid, think, that it is their right and then, harm you, without as pang of conscience.
To give or not to give, to Pakistan Disaster Fund
From time to time in England one comes across homeless people begging for money. Among them are some who are drug addicts, and possibly criminals.
Me and her indoors differently react when confronted with such a scenario. She is selective in who she gives money to and who not. I do not select, I will either give or not give (depending upon my mood) rather than any other criterion.
Her main reason is that she does not wish to fuel some one’s drug habit, but will readily give if she was assured that the money will be used for food or other nobler needs.
My argument is that such conditional charity is based on a major mis-understanding. She gives because she believes it will satisfy some one else’s need. I give because by giving, I am satisfying a need inside me.
What she does may be called charity, what I am doing is a very selfish act, I am satisfying my own need, a need to give. I am selfish.
To me such matters as poverty, minority, Pakistan using Aid to convert, are of no interest what so ever. My contribution to the Pakistan Disaster Fund (or to any other fund, here in the UK or in India) is entirely because by giving, I satisfy my own needs.
Ashish Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Even as a child, if I gave money to a Sadhu, and he in return gave me an आशीर्वाद, जीते रहो बेटे/
I went away feeling good. To me it seemed like a fair deal, the Sadhu needed the money and I gave him it, I needed to feel good and his आशीर्वाद made me feel good.
Win win, fair deal.
No charity involved, pure trading transaction.
@Mr Sharma. Thanks for the response. It suprprised me that you read the comments.
Well I agree with your remark that Pak fulminations and “warnings are nothing more than ‘impotent rage of an infirm alms-seeker. ‘.
However I disagree with the idea that the establishment in Pakistan is being viewed by the people there as appendage of the US. Pakistani people may claim that, but its a deceitful claim and an effort to absolve themselves and the crimes of there army and government. Pakistani state is a criminal entity that is there to plunder and serve its own interests. If it was taking dictat from USA, it would not be supporting Taleban, HAQANNI, LeT and all other militant groups. Would it ? It would not be a militant , theocratic state that has written discrimination against other religions in its constitution. Would it ? Pakistani people can’t be so dumb to not get it. By blaming USA , Pakistanis do what they do best, ignore there failings and crimes and blame everyone else for it.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Agree with you Rajiv.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Hi Pankaj, I am in full agreement with your agreement. However the obvious escapes most people.
~~ FLOOD AID TO PAKISTAN SHOULD BE CONDITIONAL ~~~
India gave about 50 million USD aid to Pakistan during floods last year. Possibly will give the same amount this year. This is paid by tax payers like you and me. We should make this aid , and so should the rest of the world, that all aid ot this terrorist antion is linked to
a) Not to be used for foricble conversions thru blackmail, that food and water will only be given if you convert.
b) Pakistan relief and aid would be non discriminatory. Right now Pakistan takes cash, aid, everything from the world and then does not pass it on to the minoritites of the country like Hindus, Christians, Ahemediyas. They are allowed to die or fend for themselves in the floods. Or convert first and then get relief.
c) The world has to make sure that this aid is not distributed in the name of Hafeez Saeed and Dawood Ibrahim. There were reports last year that grain and blankets supplied by the world aid effort were first stamped by Lashkar as if they had given it.
Its a tricky country with liers as leaders. We need to tread carefullly
Your favourite line ” The BJP will work overtime to lose the elections”
Here is a report in support of this.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 5:42 pm
There is a fight on inside the COngress too. Many COngressmen know that the Amul baby who is also known as “gaffe prone’ would NOT offer himself for the PM’s post. he would rather live life the Sonia way– as the Congress president.
Now that leaves the following as possible successors of MMS– Chidambram, Digviansh and Pranab.
Pranab has already struck the first blow by hitting at Chindambaram. All this with full approval of Digvinash, who was also chipping away at chidambram’s base, directly and also by using Amar Singh Dahla. (Batla house encounter, 26/11, Naxalite comments etc.)
It is possible that the Congress gestapo will first encourage, Pranabda to chip away at Chidambram and then detroy Pranabda. Remeber that Pranabda had earlier too raised his hands to becaome the PM. Infact after Indira’s death, he had said he was the rightful choice, leading to his being sent to Kaala Pani for a few years by Rajiv’s gang…
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 6:48 pm
No body is denying that there is a crisis in the Congress Party – we are not blind. This thread is about the BJP, supposedly a party with a difference or is it a party with one too many differences (pun intended). We can discuss Congress Party problems separately.
Citing differences (or war, if you like), within the Congress to justify (or divert attention away from) the differences (or is it a war there too?) within the BJP, is falling back on the classic excuse going for years – mention 2002, out comes 1984 from the hat (or should one say skull cap) to obfuscate the issue.
In this thread, if you have any views on the link I posted about Modi and Advani, please post them.
Ashish Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:15 am
is there anything wrong in more than one person in a political party aspiring to be the prime minister? The Labour government in UK ran for 3(?) terms of Blair’s PM-ship with Brown an obvious aspirant.
You are in politics because you like power and want to use it- hopefully for the benefit of the society and country. The ultimate prize for a politician in our system is the PM-ship. Why deny a party-worker his space to aspire?
Now, Congress happens to be one curious party that does not encourage anyone other than belonging to the first family to aspire for the top prize. That should not colour your thinking!
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 7:38 am
In fact, I welcome the fact more than one person in a party aspires to be the PM. More the merrier. Then only one will find who is the most popular to be the candidate. However, it does not happen that way. Some remote control in some place X decides who will be the candidate/occupant and then they go through the motions of electing him as choice of the majority. It is the total lack of inner party democracy especially in the Congress and the BJP that bothers me. It is very unhealthy for our democracy.
I was only bringing it to the notice what seems to be a spat between the two to Gopi’s attention, who is concerned as to how the BJP keeps losing elections. And what did we get, Vijay made an attempt to obfuscate the issue with a long description and analysis of the crisis in the Congress Party. Hence, my rejoinder to that. As I said, mention 2002, 1984 comes up like reflex reaction.
It comes as no surprise (and I know why) that RSS/BJP supporters by and large do not wish to discuss (actually remain in denial) the problems faced by the BJP. By not discussing and analysing, are they fooling themselves that everything in the party in perfect and hunky-dory? If they do not wish to discuss it, no problem, but do not barge in and try to derail the discussion between those who wish to do so. That is what Vijay tried to do. Sorry Vijay, it is just not done, did not expect it from you.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:04 am
C’mon. I am a bleeding heart liberal who would be happy with the COngress WITHOUT the Gandy parivar and with probably a Narasimha Rao or a Chidambaram at the head.
Here is a list
a) The very existence of a Gandy destroys the concept of democracy. Why should a Gandy inherit the crown and the rest of the partymen bow , while the janata of the country go in a frenzy ki…”hamara Rajkumar aaya….”
b) The BJP has more inner party democracy. NOne of its leaders are there because of there father being king. The top leadership Advani, Vajpayee, Sushama, Jailtey, MOdi, Naidu,– none came becasue of their father and none have left a son behind.Look at the other parties.
—> The COngress essentially a dynasty party. From the Gandhis to the Pilots to the Scindias, Dikshits, Deoras to all. Just mom and pop MPs
–> All regional parties DMK, Akalis, Abdullahs, Lalu’s, SP etc etc etc are Mummy and papa parties.
I think in the best interest of the country, let us vote dynasites out.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
You are entitled to your views. No issues.
1) Having no papa or mummy (never mind Anurag Thakur, Vasundhara Raje, Jaswant Singh jr, Varun Gandhi, etc. – the list keeps growing) in the party earlier makes it a more democratic party? Huh!
More! – How much more?
Check out if Gadkari, Advani and the rest are able to flutter their wings without that nod from the RSS honchos. Gadkari is more often in Nagpur consulting with his godfather than in Delhi.
Here is something to chew about. Perhaps – not many of the progeny of BJP’s leaders are in the party, as they consider a party with out-of-date ancient ideology, which has no relevance today.
2) Whether Nehru-Gandhi family is good for the country or not – the jury is still out there. Give them credit at least that they face the electorate like other politicians (Advani, Sushma, etc.), unlike for example the Thakre’s, who consider it is beneath their dignity to contest elections in the first place.
Voting them out – well why not keep trying?
4) This thread is about apparent (mark my word) spat between Modi and Advani – true to form, you have chosen not to comment on it – again no issues, just pointing it out.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Many countries have had privileged political families – Kennedys, Bushs, Bhuttos, just to name some. If people vote them to power, where is the problem? They do not go and usurp power undemocratically. If the Congress always chooses to have Gandhi as their leader, so be it. Let people vote the party out of power, if they think it is not good for the country.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Well, Manohar- Vij is right that BJP is more democratic than Congress. But I do not fault Sonias; I fault the congress committee/parliamentary group etc members who worship dynasty and nominate them as leaders or who is jealous of others getting in.
It is an apple/orange comparison between “dynasties” in US vs India. Nobody there can have their son/daughter/wife/husband automatically be a congressman or senator; because of the primary process- party does not nominate the person, the electorate/party members vote for the candidate to contest for the party. Hopefully, as we mature, we may have something like that instead of party honchos electing candidates — no more Sushamas and Sonias from Bellary and Indira Gandhi from chickmagalur!
Ravi Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
BJP, is nthing but a proxy for the RSS.
RSS is far from being a democratic organisation.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
“BJP is more democratic than Congress”
Inner party democracy is a sham in our country. Only it appears to be so on the surface. Hardly any party has regular elections – someone gets nominated by the numero uno and then the naatak of democracy is staged.
Here too, the Gandhis contest elections to be legitimate leaders and except for once, they keep winning handsomely. Whether they are fit to be the chieftains is a different matter altogether.
AshishC Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
is the “remote control” democratically elected? (seriously do not know if Mohan Bhagwat had to win a party election in order to become boss-man).
Also, BJP at least holds elections to its national and state very punctually.
Too sleepy now to be coherent. Shall revert soon on why BJP keeps losing
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:53 am
Please read my post again. I am not talking about any particular remote control. It does not matter, whether the person with the remote control is democratically elected or not, it is the existence of the remote control that is worrisome, and of course, the double standards (one is OK, the other is not) that many here demonstrate,
Sonia Gandhi was wise, realistic or whatever enough to nominate Dr. Manmohan Singh as the Prime Minister, but she made one crucial mistake – she should have given him more political powers. That is why I do not like the present arrangement. IMO, the Prime Minister must have full political and executive powers to be really effective, like who should be in the cabinet – certainly not the Shivraj Patils and the Arjun Singhs types. They were disasters.
BJP holding elections at the state and national levels – perhaps to insignificant posts and vacancies. Good. One never knows what goes behind the scenes – the shadow of RSS looming – it may not be so.
All appointments to the crucial posts – President, Leaders of the Opposition, the Chief Ministers – are definitely not without the prior green signal from the orange capital of India.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:24 am
Vijay Kumar, Ashish, Gopi,
How dare you write about the congress dynasty and BJP’s inner party elections, when this congressie troll wants you to discuss only about some imaginary differences that have imaginatively cropped up between Advani and Modi? No matter, Nitish wants to flag off Advani’s Yatra, but to this troll, a war is on in the BJP.
The congress dynasty not holding pary elections is halaal, but the BJP holding them regularly? You must be joking. It is all Nagpur propaganda. Proof? Ask the the Pakistani jihadi, he agrees with the congressie troll.The BJP elections are all insignificant, nothing to write to the ISI about.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:42 am
~ I WILL HOLD ELECTIONS, PROVIDED U ELECT ME AS PRESIDENT ~~
Shenoy sahaab and Manohar ji, The Congress president elections are similar to that done by Gen Zia and Muammar Gadaffi.
Free and fair elections… as lomg as there is only one candidate and that is Rahul or Sonia !!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:36 am
I am with you on this. Show me one post of mine where I have endorsed this practice of sycophancy in the Congress Party. That is the way it is there.
BTW, did Nitin Gadkari come though some electoral process? Perhaps,there was some secret voting in the RSS headquarters and which we are not aware of..
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:03 am
Vijay, Ashish and Gopi.
The “headmaster aka bandmaster” has spoken.
Yes, how “dare” you cross the “Shenoy rekhaa” and discuss matters with the likes of me, as he is getting left out in the intelligent debates in a civilised manner?
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
look, the only thing I am saying is BJP at least cares about appearances enough to hold elections and elect office bearers. (As an aside, when I grew up, every Bengali home would have large book-shelves full of books displayed prominently in the living room; we were told this just shows the world that while the rest of Indians displayed vulgar wealth, we displayed our erudition!). As we all know, it may not be true; but, at least the love for books had to be professed.
Similarly, I think at least the BJP is professing the right values- but, I agree, not 100% following them.
Congress, though has no such pretense.
I agree with you about your basic premise that the PM must have full political authority (did you see Jaitley’s interview recently by Prasannarajan in India Today, where he pretty much asserts that BJP will never have a PM who does not have authority over both the party and the government?) But, consider this:
1. Manmohan is a technocrat PM- he was even a technocrat FM- who needed Narsimha Rao’s political umbrella to stay secure.
2. So, even if Sonia wanted to invest political power in him, he would not have managed it. Having power and knowing what to do with it different.
3. Sonia of course did not want to do so, in the first place. Because if she did, the primacy that the Family has over the party will be eroded.
The NAC is another odd thing; there is the ruling party- as always in the democracy, there is the government, there is the opposition.. but what the hell is the NAC?
It confuses the hell out of me- as for Manmohan, who has to manage this diverse group of conflicting and demanding people, it is nightmarish.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Agree. I could not have put it better. We are on the same wavelength, except perhaps of the appearance part – wouldn’t that be hypocrisy? baahar kuchh aur under se kuchh aur
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
I think it is more like “fake it till you make it”.
Let me give you an example; Nehru takes the credit for giving us strong institutions, elections every five years, 3 branches of the state and so on..
we are still faking it; aren’t we? In the hope, that someday, collectively we shall make it.
So, when we grew up; in a house full of books stacked from floor to roof; you like books quite naturally. Similarly, if you even follow the rituals of elections, hopefully, someday, you will become democratic.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:04 am
A drowning person catches a straw and believes that it is a lifeboat. Nitish Kumar was invited by Nitin Gadkari to flag off Advani’s rathyatra from JP’s birthplace and much to the dismay and even shock of all the drowning people, Nitish Kumar has agreed to flag off the yatra. ONLY Times of India didn’t know about it.
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Un-surprisingly it appears that BJP has no authority of its own, it is just a front organisation for the RSS.
So when the voters reject BJP it is in fact rejecting the hard-line Hindu agenda that the RSS forces BJP to promote.
For me, I rather have Dynastical politics of Congress, at least I know what and whom we are dealing with, rather than have BJP in power knowing full well that its policies are being dictated by a misogynist right wing very conservative un-elected political party.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 7:25 pm
“It does appear that the BJP has no authority of its own”
It definitely never had any authority to begin with – being an appendage of the RSS. Only Vajpayee could manage to keep the RSS at bay to some extent (just) when he was the Prime Minister, because of his stature. I doubt whether he was ever summoned to Nagpur for a dressing down. Poor Advani has to keep going there every now and then as an errant schoolboy to be read the riot act.
The RSS/BJP and its trolls keep shouting from the roof tops of the shakhas about how evil it is for country that one family’s sway runs over the Congress party. Then doublespeak and double standards set in. These same set see only virtue and goodness in the remote control in Nagpur or worse are in denial. The walrus mustachios there never have contested even panchayat elections, unlike the Gandhi family, who subject themselves to the electoral process at the Parliamentary level – not that it would matter to the Congress Party. For me, it also does not matter whether the BJP runs on the orders of Mohan Bhagwat & Co. or not, it is their problem. It is the doublespeak and the double standards.
The RSS sinister agenda is all there to see. It declaring itself as a cultural(!) organisation is a very thick black smoke-screen.
We can always discuss the merits and the demerits of the contribution of the Gandhi family to the nation. These RSS trolls will be in for a surprise as to what my views are on the subject.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:26 am
Yup, the old man Advani will screw it up this time!
I DONT KNOW WHY HT AND HER COLUMNISTS ARE DERIVING PLEASURE IN WRITING AGAINST BJP/HINDUS/NARENDRA MODI.THEY COULD NOT SEE ANY GOOD THING IN US BUT ONLY FIND FAULTS WHILE THEY FIND EVERYTHING GOODIN CONGRESS/PM/SONIA GANDHI AND HER FAMILY.WHY MPDI IS BLAMED FOR 2002 RIOTS WHEN NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVODE ANY PROOF.YOU DONT SEE HIS DEVELOPMENT.AND GOVERNANCE.EVEN USA HAS ACKNOWLEDGED IT.IT WAS VICIOUS PROPOGANDA CARRIED OUT BY FEW MEDIA PERSON PAID BY GOVT/PARTY.BJP IS BECOMING DTRONGER AND STRONGER EVERYDAY AND TIME WILL PROVE IT.WHY YOU AND YOUR PAPER IS NOT CONCERNED ABOUT KILLINGS OF54 HINDUS AT GODHRA AND EXPILSION OF KASHMIRI PUNDITS FROM VALLEY.SEE HOW LEADERS LIKE MULAYA/LALOO/CONGRESS SURRENDERS TO MUSLIMS FOR VOTES.THEY CAN GO TO ANY EXTENT.NITISH IS ARRIGANT AND WITHOUT BJP HE MAY BE LIMITED TO BIHAR AND INTERESTED IN MUSLIM APPEASEMENT.ARE YOU NOT WORRIED ABOUT SCAMS/CORRUPTION/INFIGHTING AND DYNASTY RULE OF COUNTRY.PL TRY TO SEE GOOD ALSO IN YOUR OPPONENTS.IF YOU SUPPORT MUSLIM APPEASEMENT THEN THIS COUNTRY WILL SOON BE A MUSLIM STATE.PL BE FAIR IN YOUR ASSESSMENT.
AID TO PAKISTAN”””””””””””””
Totally stunned by the naivete shown by Vijay, Rajiv and Ashish- they want aid to reach only the needy in Pakistan- with innocents like this no wonder we take hit after hit by Pakistan.
My name is Pakistan. I have Rs 100- Rs 5 I give to my poor, Rs 45 I hide in Swiss banks and Rs 50 I give to my bloodhounds Islamists. They attack India, the westerners in Afghanistan and the shias and ahmediyas in Pakland
Now there is flood. I will definitely not touch the Rs 45- that funds my European holidays, and if I touch the 50 for the bloodhounds, then that will take my fun away.
Wait- Shreeman MMS and Rajiiv-Vij are coming with Rs 20- jio raja. I will give 5 to the poor, 10 will go to my swiss account and NOW THERE IS Rs 5 MORE TO give to LeT
Dr Mishra Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 7:02 pm
I have said several times before- a country where 1.5 lakh farmers have commited suicide in the last 15 years, should not give any aid to anyone else.
To give even one rupee to a corrupt theocratic state which is one of the most dangerous nation in the world, beggars belief.
Pakistanis can stop buying F-16 and provide for their own. They can also start paying a little tax. They have enough money.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 8:39 pm
I remember that I read that one of the most contentious issue during partition was gifting Pakistan a couple of hundreds of crores of rupees, of that time value, while pakistan was actively trying to subvert equitable partition, so much so, that Nizam was ordering 100000 rifles for its razakars through Pakistan. Other Congress leaders were dead against it, but Gandhiji prevailed over them through his fast.
Any financial aid or so called humanitarian aid is surely going to be misused. let Pakis should spend their illgotten money on their people or let Pakistani awam revolt aginst their rulers, (aise Jeene se to mar jana achha) read, ISI, Army, and at that point, India can provide help to people of Pakistan. China, the stingy all time friend, inspite of trillion of dollars reserve, wish to give only peanuts to their bosom buddy. let them take care of Pakis, after all, they are learning to become chinese camp followers now, after sucking USA dry.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 8:59 pm
You got my name there by mistake.
I believe anyone giving aid to the Pakistani state is an enabler and facilitator of the most criminal entity on earth today. There is no state more vile and a ruling elite so deceitful, venomous and thug as the Pakistan state. I agree with Afghan ambassador who called Pakistani rulers as double mouthed snakes.
The only humanitarian exception, is that if you know a Pakistani individually you may help him on an individual basis.
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:03 pm
So lets us work out who is naïve here.
We are being asked to believe that a good proportion of Indian aid to relieve the sufferings of POOR Pakistan flood victims will be diverted into terrorist organisations, who would then use it to fund attacks on India.
Logically, that would suggest that the only reason why there are no attacks at present, is because Indian aid is not reaching the terrorists.
This argument completely ignores that Pakistani Terrorist organisations are hugely funded by rich patrons in the Middles East and Europe. Such organisations are not reliant upon aid from Vijay or from Ravi.
I wonder who is naive.
The second argument is that only one of every 10 rupees donated by the public will end up helping the needy. So let us not donate anything.
Result, the poor who was due to get at least one rupee, now gets nothing.
Anonymous Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 pm
I agree with Dr Mishra. Let people give on a person-to-person basis. Govt of India should not give any money.
Also, Dr Mishra, you may be way off on the number of farmer suicides and the number of years this continued. It has gone down significantly in the last four years; also the total number is far less than the 1.5 lakh farmers you mentioned (granting that even one farmer committing suicide for those reasons is too much)
Save the Children’s Fund
The main charity featured in the BBC News tonight focused on the work of Save the Children’s Fund, in Sindh, where most of the poor victims are Hindus. In the film, they looked more like our own brothers and sisters than they looked as our sworn enemy.
Save the Children’s Fund need to hire a Dr. There is one semi retired one here, who is an expert on such matters.
I will be donating because I am naive.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Ravi, I was angry. I think some aid can be given by India to Nepal, Bangladesh and Afghanistan because-
1. they are poorer
2. the gains in friendship will reap long term dividends by reduction of our defence expenditure.
but Pak is lala basket case. My Rs or £ is not going to go the poor hindu in Sindh, it goed yo smirking ISI / Haqquani/ Hafiz Syeed / Maulana xyz
Ravi Reply:September 23rd, 2011 at 9:52 pm
As you know I am naive.
I will give.
I will trust that both Save the Children’s Fund and Oxfam are quite capable of making sure that money ends up where it is needed.
Ashish Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:05 am
When we were living in HK, the massive Pakistan earthquake happened and I donated actually triple the amount as we had done for Tsunami relief in India (more disposable income!).
The money went through Medicins Sans Frontiers in HK. I am sure they put it to good use.
I agree with your apprehensions about money reaching wrong hands- but, what to do, sir? I thought of those young (okay, Pakistani) kids, shelterless in sub-zero temperature and looked at my (then) 1 year old’s face and the decision was simple.
I agree with Ravi; I did it for a very selfish consideration. I did it for my daughter.
Ravi Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 8:48 am
कौन रोता है किसी और के लिए ऐ दोस्त
सब को अपनी ही किसी बात पे रोना आया
For me the biggest story of the day was that a toll booth attendant was shot dead in Gurgaon for doing his duty honesty.
India can get all higways, malls etc. but Indians will always remain Jaahil. I feel like puking looking at how cheap life is in India. The real progress will be when every life will be valued.
Here is the link. CCTV caught him getting shot.
This is full video of toll attendant getting shot…just for Rs.27..by somebody owning Bolero..
I am sure some of us have seen this report before.
Its pertinent to look at the widespread venality that’s Pakistan.
By Marianna Babbar
Hindu brides of Sindh ( the few that are left )
Hindus In Pakistan
Hindus constitute about 2.5 per cent, or 26 lakh, of Pakistan’s population.
Though sprinkled all over Pakistan, 95 per cent of Hindus are in Sindh.
Only Tharparkar district in Sindh has Hindus in majority: 51 per cent.
Other districts with sizeable population: Mirpur Khas (41 per cent), Sanghar (35 per cent), Umerkot (43 per cent)
Nearly 82 per cent of Pakistani Hindus are lower caste, most of them farm labourers
Cities with some Hindu population: Karachi, Hyderabad, Jacobabad, Lahore, Peshawar and Quetta.
In Tharparkar, Hindus own land. Krishen Bheel, Gyan Chand and Ramesh Lal are the Hindus in the Pakistan National Assembly. ***
Let me confess at the outset: I’m travelling in interior Sindh to verify specifically the reported widespread menace of abduction of Hindu girls, their forcible conversion to Islam and betrothal to Muslim men. My first port of call is the district court of Mirpur Khas. I promptly mingle among the crowd waiting for the court’s decision on a kidnap-and-conversion case. Different voices narrate contradictory stories. I am befuddled for the moment.
Soon, a frisson of excitement sweeps through the throng, as a police van drives through the gate. Inside it is Mariam. She’s 13 years old-and married! Mariam was Mashu, and Hindu, till the night of December 22, 2005. I pick my way through the jostling crowd. Mariam is in a red burqa, her gold nose ring sparkles. She tells me, “I’m happy. I don’t want to return to my parents or brother.” What’s the fuss about, I wonder.
It’s quite another story under the pipal tree of the court compound. Huddled under it are the villagers of Jhaluree, 20 km from Mirpur Khas. Among them is Mashu’s father, Malo Sanafravo. He says that at 11 pm, December 22, four armed men barged into their room. One of them was Malo’s neighbour, Akbar. They picked up Mashu, bundled her into the waiting car. “She was taken to Pir Ayub Jan Sarhandi’s village in Somarho tehsil.” There Mashu became Mariam and was married to Akbar.
Not true, insists husband Akbar. “Mariam has been always in my heart,” he gushes, saying, at 11 pm, December 22, it was she who had come over to his house. But it’s true that the Pir converted her and married them-it was his idea that they issue statements in the court. “Mariam was sent to Darul Aman in Hyderabad, in judicial custody,” Akbar declares.
A 13-year-old choosing to convert and marry? A 13-year-old testifying in the court, without her family by her side? Suspicious, I walk over to the SHO, caught in the middle of a heated exchange between two groups. Someone suggests he should allow the girl to meet her relatives. Before the conversion yes, not now. She has now become Muslim, says the SHO. He argues, “There’s a huge crowd here. If Mariam breaks down after seeing her father, there will be a communal riot here in the compound.”
A little later, there are celebrations as the word spreads: the court has allowed the couple to live together. Standing next to me is Kanjee Rano Bheel. He works for an NGO in the education sector; volunteers for the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) as well. “In just two hours Mashu was converted and married,” Kanjee says incredulously. Disappointment and helpless rage fleet across his face. “In Darul Aman the girls are kept away from parents and pressured into issuing statements favourable to the abductors. They tame stubborn girls through death threats.”
So, was Mashu abducted and forcibly converted?
In Mirpur Khas, truth resembles the mirage of the surrounding Thar desert, teasing and tormenting me as I drive from Karachi into interior Sindh.
It tests your credulity, it challenges your journalistic skills. Wherever I go, and whoever I meet, in disconsolate voices the Hindus talk about ‘missing girls’; their stories resemble Mashu’s-the theme of abduction, conversion, often followed by marriage, is common to most narrations. The girls then appear in courts to issue statements declaring their conversion was voluntary. All links to the natal family and the community are severed; they are lost to the family forever. On January 4, 2005, Marvi, 18, and Hemi, 16, were kidnapped from Kunri village in Umerkot district; three months later, on March 3, 14-year-old Raji was abducted from Aslam Town Jhuddo, Mirpur Khas.
So, was Mashu abducted and converted? In Mirpur Khas, the truth is like the mirage of the Thar desert.
The script in their cases was similar to Mashu’s. “Only 10 per cent of all conversions involving girls are voluntary; because of romance,” says Kanjee.
Ten per cent of what? No official figures are available. The DIG in Mirpur Khas, Saleemullah, says,
read full at
engrich Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:56 am
in hindu religion women has no religion.she is always under fear of bunt alive after death of his husband,
On the sanction of horrible custom of Sati—i.e., burning widows alive with dead husbands—a couple of sacred verses (there are more) are quoted here:
Let these women, whose husbands are worthy and are living, enter the house with ghee (applied) as collyrium (to their eyes). Let these wives first step into the pyre, tearless without any affliction and well adorned.
The Sacred Text Site put the translation of Rigveda 10:18:7–8 (Sacred text here) as thus:
Let these “unwidowed” (should be “widowed”) dames with noble husbands adorn themselves with fragrant balm and unguent. Decked with fair jewels, tearless, free from sorrow, first let the dames go up to where he lieth.
Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman: come, he is lifeless by whose side thou liest.
Dakshma Sanghita 8:18-19
A sati who dies on the funeral pyre of her husband enjoys an eternal bliss in heaven.
Another good essay on the above topic will be: Why I am Not a Hindu by Ramendra Nath, which can be read online.
I think, I need nothing else to prove as to from where the horrible sacred Hindu custom of Sati comes from.
Let us add here that the British had to make vigorous effort to ban the practice of Sati in the face of stiff Hindu resistance. While the British discouraged the practice (which they banned in 1829) some 2366 Hindu women were burned alive in three years between 1815 and 1818 in Bengal alone. Between 1815 and 1828 CE, some 8135 women were burned in Bengal.
Dear editor, I shall be grateful if you publish this letter.
Thanks to all the readers who have commented (favourable or unfavourable) on my old essay.
Sacred Text: , http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm
Atharva Veda , Tr. Maurice Bloomfield
Pragâpati, Anumati, and Sinîvâlî have fashioned him. May he (Pragâpati) elsewhere afford the birth of a female, but here he shall bestow a man!
Rig Veda, Tr. Ralph T.H. Griffith (1896)
Indra himself hath said, The mind of woman brooks not discipline, Her intellect hath little weight.
Nay, do not die, Purūravas, nor vanish: let not the evil-omened wolves devour thee.
With women there can be no lasting friendship: hearts of hyenas are the hearts of women.
Yajur Veda (Taittiriya Sanhita), Tr. Arthur Berriedale Keith (1914)
…Soma could not bear being drawn for women; making the ghee a bolt they beat it, they drew it when it had lost its power; therefore women are powerless, have no inheritance, and speak more humbly than even a bad man .
Yajur Veda (The Texts of the White Yajurveda), Tr. Ralph T.H. Griffith (1899)
Thee we invoke, troop-lord of troops, Thee we invoke, the loved ones’ lord. Thee, lord of treasures, we invoke. My precious wealth!
. . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . .
Please note Sacred Text has blocked the rest of the text by inserting dots…This part includes the desire of the woman to make the horse her husband.
XXXIII.20, 21: Please note that Sacred Text has completely expunged XXXIII.20-31 from its archive.
Rig Veda 10.18.8 (Tr. T.H. Griffith, Translator, 1896)
Wifehood with this thy husband was thy portion, who took thy hand and wooed thee as a lover.
Rig Veda 6.27.8 (Tr. T.H. Griffith)
Two wagon-teams, with damsels, twenty oxen, O Agni, Abhydvartin Cayamdna,
The liberal Sovran, giveth me. This guerdon of Prthu’s seed is hard to win from others.
Rig Veda 8.38.1-10 (Tr. T.H. Griffith)
… YE Twain are Priests of sacrifice, winners in war and holy works: Indra and Agni, mark this well…
For him they lengthen prayers and acts of worship: the Mothers weave garments for him their offspring. Rejoicing, for the Steer’s impregning contact, his Spouses move on paths or heaven to meet him.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Abul Kasem , MIA , every word you write is a fact BUT ALSO IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT NOT A REALITY.
BUT THIS IS REALITY
A muslim can beat his wife for refusing sex , SHARIA COURT WILL EXONERATE HIM, ZAKIR NAIK ENDORSES IT AS PER HADITH.
A WOMEN RAPED IN ISLAM , HER WITNESS IS TO COUNTED AS SAME AS TWO IMECILE MEN(again this is REAL TIME NOW , APPROVED BY HADITH IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES
SO WAKEY WAKEY
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 11:45 am
looks like tajmder/ram avtar is here!
please, please go away!
If Mr Vinod Sharma says on TV that the credibility of this government is at its lowest , then it must be true. After all he is an expert on this government . A TV Anchor was heard saying he knows more than what he reveals. Mr Vinod looked deeply disturbed with Pranab Mukerjea’s Ministry’s letter , and rightly so ,after all it said the letter has been seen by the FM. Pranab Mukerjea has still not denied the contents of that letter , rather reaffirmed it when he talked about how RTI helped in disclosing it. So howsoever the Ministers may deny , but clearly Pranab Babu has revolted. The PM says that the” secret note “was not shown to him. Does he expect the country to believe it? Has the PM of India started feeding such childish lies to the country ? Or , if he is true , will he direct disciplinary action against Ms Vini Mahajan his Jt. Secy? Many questions arise which the country is seeking answers to.
But will the answers come? No I am sure they will not…. There shall be more lies and still more lies.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:32 am
Chidambaram (or somebody else) planting bugging devices in prabnab’s ofice; Pranab sending a letter on Chidambaram — things are totally out of control!
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Pl go to the link provided by Mohan R, above. Talks about very interesting business associations.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:03 am
Jethmalini’s article is full of innuendos…
Chidambaram is not a corrupt man. he does not have to be. And the “black to white” etc are strategies various govts follow.. He did not make any financial gain from that.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
It is given that everyone associated with the Congress party is considered corrupt by their opponents.
ASHISH- AID TO PAK lala land””””””””’
no offence, but your continued protestation about not ignoring the poor in Pak has a very Indian feel to it, a bit like IK Gujral thinking ‘aaaall isss well’ and disbanding RAW in Pakistan. Maybe you were one of those on the bus to Lahore going dewy eyed over Vajpayee reciting poetry.
I was not. Even as I was bowing to greet my opponent, I was, Bruce Lee style, not taking my eyes off my opponent. In any such situation I think- how would Chanakya or Sardar Patel have reacted.
Your attitude is an insult to the thousands who have lost a limb ar an eye in the blasts, or the lakhs who have had to flee Kashmir. Just ask yourself one question-
THOSE F-16s AND MISSILES IN PAKISTAN- which is the only country they will be used against ????
Pak banana Darul ul whatever, does not need aid, it can sell its F-16s
Ravi Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:07 am
How does it feel, living in the Ivory Tower of certainties.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:27 am
Well I am the last person to be naive regarding Pakistan. I had raised the issue of Aid NOT reaching the religious minorities of Pakistan– like Hindus, CHiristians, Sikhs and Buddhists, unless they converted.
In that context I wondered if aid could be given directly to these minorites..
AshishC Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
I have no fight with Pakistani people- at least the innocents; there are plenty of those. And, I have no fight with children, anywhere.
Ah, no; I was not on that bus- nor do I think much of Vajpayee’s poetry. And little that I know of Sardar Patel, I doubt he would have sensed an opportunity in human misery.
I refuse to believe that all Pakistanis have lost the right to be called human.
Very interesting article on Chidambaran By Jethmalani
Your anger is absolutely justified. I also lose my cool when I see such reports. There is a problem in our country of lax laws and sly lawyers who delay and deny justice to all. At the top it is about NOT punishing Afzal Guru and kasab and at the other end it is about the killings on the toll road.
.The truth is our criminal justice system has been hijacked by criminal lawyers who make the client give false and misleading statements. By the police who are keenn to free criminals in case they get good rishwat. And by judges who are waiting for buyers.
Frankly it would really require a Kiran Bedi type of hard headed crusader to change this as she knows the system from inside.
I share your sentiments of driving on Delhi and NCR roads. Here a vehicle touching another results in people shouting rape and murder. As if their izzat has been looted.
I have just made a simple policy. Drive at a constant, predictable, slow speed in the centre lane. And be friendly even if the other guy is the offender.
I think we give our moteor licence too easily. Punishment for rash driving is still a rishwat or a small challan. Who is going to change this…? GOd knows…
Ashish Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 11:40 am
my comment got moderated off this blog.. ah well, I guess I know why.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 11:46 am
I can’t anyone removing your post..whosoever it is..he must have poor comprehension skill.
I have worked for 27 years in three different banks. In all these banks I had
many Pakistani coleagues. In one the bank a Pakistani was my boss.
I had ate/drank/gambled with them on regular basis. We used to go for
picnics atleast twice a year. Now also in my business I have few Pakistani
customers who buy goods from me and take it to Pakistan. I have given them
credit also from time to time . In all these intereactions with them I have had no
problem dealing with them in any aspect. Here in my line of business now I meet
many people from different nationalties and what I have found in meeting
with all these is that there is no real difference in people around the world.
All are as good or bad as we Indians are. Basic nature of person is same all over.
Everything is first for me and my family than come others. Then it depends upon
how much a person is prejusdiced about religions, castes, nations. Basicaly
everyone is selfish first. Most of the hatred caused is by people of vested interest
and media hypes that to the hilt.
One of my Pakistnai friend had told me this.
PEHLE AAYA THA INSAAN
PHIR AAYEE INSANIYAT
AUR PHIR AAYE MAZHAB.
AUR MAZHABON NE INSAAN AND INSANIYAT KI STYANASH KAR DI.
He had actually used an unprintable word for satyanash
which I cannot post here.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:08 am
WHAT HAVE YOU WRITTEN, this will set cat amongst the pigeons.
YOU ARE SAYING EVERY HUMAN BEING IS SAME , mate spare a thought for Rajiv, the punjabi PUNDOO , actually substitute P for G.What will happen to all his vitriol , same with Pandit Mishra who is like a snake , do not make noise , surreptitiously injects VENOM.
As for the buffon balwinder he is a dimwit , so he can be excused.
Same with another one who has a habit of turning green reading my posts , his is more subtle , more oblique , put prejudice against muslims non the less, thus he spares no trouble in pointing out fault of muslims , but when it comes to his own ilk , he becomes philosophical,.
Just listened to SACHAL STUDIO JAZZ from pakistan , TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERE IS NO SUCH TALENT IN INDIA SINCE ANANDA SHANKAR.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Why only 4 Rs?
Some years ago, one of the social scientists had stated that all religions are a type of terrorism.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Yes, religions are one the main reason of terrorism.
Mohan, these pakistanis are allright when they are outside pakistan. In pakistan they abuse hindus at breakfast, jews at lunch (despite never meeting one), and eat shias for dinner
Ravi, tu menu ai das, if you have 1 lakh pounds in your bank, do u beg your neighbour for money to repair leak in your kitchen ? When will besharm pakistan stand on 2 feet?
Ravi Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 11:48 am
I think a distinction has to be made between giving money to Pakistan, or provide help to poor Pakistani’s in their hour of need.
I will not give Pakistan – The establishment, which includes Govt, Military, Religious Fundo Organisations, etc – the time of day let alone money.
However, that severely malnourished young girl, with love and pathos mixed in her eyes, can have the best part of my lakh, in exchange for a smile with a belly that is full. It will be my langar seva to her and her community.
The remainder is the conundrum as to how do I mange to get to her what I am able to afford.
I choose Save the Children’s Fund.
As a young boy, when I did Langar Seva, I did not have the picture in my mind of the person who would eat, what I cooked. I was making it for the Guru ki Sangat.
When the Sangat came to our local Gurudwara, and I was on duty in the shoes room, I took the dhool and graced it over my head, without any question about the identity of the person. The moment he/she was in the Gurudwara, they were sangat. We do not refuse ANYONE.
The picture of that malnourished Hindu, dirt poor, Sindhi girl affects me more than the smirk of Haffeez does.
Therefore, I hope you understand the perspective I am coming from, it is humanitarian and not political.
May be you have experienced different Pakistanis, but I standby for what I had said above . My boss a Pakistani in a Dutch bank where I worked
for 6 1/2 years was one of of the the finest gentlement I have ever encountered
in my life . I will reitereate that in all castes/religions/countries there are
good and bad people .
~~~ CHUNNU MUNNU DO THE BHAI ~~~
It is sad that Chidambaram and Pranabda, the most able Ministers of UPA 2 have fallen prey to the game of Digvinash SIngh to divide and rule. Digivinash Singh sensed that both of them could be contenders for the ‘rasgulla’ of getting the PM’s seat as “Gaffe Prone” Amul baby would probably chicken out in case COngress wins 2014.
here is a nursery rhyme on the present situation…
Chidu, Prannu thhey do bhai,
Rasgule pe hui ladai.
Chidu bola mai khaunga,
Prannu bola mai khaunga.
Peeche se Sonia Mummy aayi,
Dono ko ek chapat lagaayi
Digvinash SIngh ko PM Kursi Dilwayi
Aur Gaffe Prone Amul baba ko uski Dor pakadayi
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:05 am
U may be right. Looks like Diggie cannot wait till the elections or he is sure Congress will lose..He is trying all these so the prince can be put in power with him steering…
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:16 am
They may just do another disastedr. Change MMS BEFORE the elections. Digvinash is sensing that he is close to the goal post. Sad for India
One more ex-minister of TN was arrested today; this one for murder. So, the tally now is is 6 ex-ministers – 5 for landgrab and one for murder.
The real tragedy in all these, including the murder case, is that the bureaucrats and police (IAS and IPS) did not do anything on these while serving the previous government. It was a widespread “rumour” that Sami (the arrested ex-minister for murder) was involved in the killing of the two fishermen belonging to the other political party…there was a ’show” investigation, case was closed because bodies were not recovered.
Darnley street, is that name of red light street in kent Dr Shan ? This is pathetic puttar, u r totally friendless now, why u come to blog and abuse rajiv, no rhyme or provocation ??
Please Vinodji, just ban Dr shan, we cannot have abuse like _ pundoo with g_ this is family blog.
Dr shan, pl u dont mind, just get some psychitry counselling, u sound lonely and depressed
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
When ever I see the vile and abusive comments from Shan/Darnley, it puts a smile on my face literally, because he stands totally exposed, marginalized , ignored and scorned in this blog, because of his vile behavior. of course that angers him and he gets more vile and bitter and abusive. Its actually interesting to watch this phenomenon. I know, you have occasionally tried to reason and show him the repurcussions on him of his vile ways. However, my prognosis of him so far, that he is incorrigible in any name, seems correct.
Paschim banga (Waste bengal) has forgotter Master Surya Sen and his associate but Islamic Bangladesh still remembers them fondly.
79th death anniversary of Pritilata today
Today is the 79th death anniversary of Pritilata Waddedar, the first woman who embraced martyrdom for the country’s liberation from British rule in 1932.
Born in Chittagong in 1911, Pritilata was an anti-British revolutionary in the then East Bengal, now Bangladesh.
In early 1930s, Pritilata joined Mastarda Surya Sen’s armed resistance movement.
Later in 1932, she successfully lead a team to attack on the Pahartali European Club in Chittagong. However, when trapped by the English on the fateful night, she committed suicide by swallowing Cyanide, ending her short endeavor in fighting for the country’s freedom.
Pritilata graduated in Philosophy with distinction from Bethune College of Kolkata.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
never heard about this. Thanks for the info
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
There is a movie on Master Surjo Sen “Khele hum jee jaan se”..It was a flop because congressi Indians can’t accept anyone else..But it is a must see.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@RAJIV, hope you have awaken from gopi thomas answer , infact when did you hear somebody in india celebrate NETAJI SUBHAS BOSE’S birthday. In fact a survey done during the release of the film “Bose , the forgotten hero” directed by Shyam Benegal (YOUR UP OR BIHAR OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY STATE IN INDIA DID NOT EXEMPT IT FROM ENTERTAINMENT TAX , WHICH MULAYAM USE TO DO FOR ALL BACCHANS FILM IN UP)
REVEALED THAT VERY FEW OF THE YOUNG GENERATION HAD EVER HEARD OF THE NAME OF SUBHAS BOSE
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
You are wrong on Netaji. Officially Gandhi may be father of the nation (nation of corrupts) but unofficially Netaji is father of the nation (honest people only).
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Now you are becoming like all the other crazies — Mahathma Gandhi is the father of the nation; netaji also is a great leader, a flame for a brief time.
now between **** and Brits; I will take Brits any time!. **** considered the Chinese flat nose as a different and inferior race–just imagine how Indians would a have fared!
Regarding Preetilata and similar great people – the text books are written by vested interests — You will not find many Hindu/Christian freedom leaders mentioned in kerala text books any more — it is all some obscure Muslim names, nothing (except few great Muslim leaders like Moidu Maulavi) I learned in text books during my high school days. There were great leaders like KP kesava Menon, Smt Ammu Swaminathan (Mrinalini Sarabhai’s mother), Smt Kutti Malu Amma, Mr Madhava Menon, Mr Varughese Mappilai, Mr kelappan etc… now they are not even mentioned; and Text books are full of Majeed, Najeeb etc — Muslim League has been controlling education dept in all Congress ministries ever since the state was formed, and they have been slowly rewriting History text books here!
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
As you can not impose any religion on me, you can not impose Gandhi or gandhism on everyone. If you speak to 10 persons (educated ones), 9 out of 10 will rate Netaji above Gandhi.
The people who still live in propaganda world believe Gandhi was some Mahatma..in reality British Sarkar’s Mahatma who saved british lives from Indians.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
History has been written from the viewpoint of victors. It is possible that the historians of independent India were beholden to the COngress and Nehru family to give us this present book.
however, after checking up some elders some years back, I can say that that while gandhi’s name had reached all the villages of India. Subhash Bose was not really known outside the corcles of a the people who read newspapers– which were again censored by the British.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
I have found that people from Villages know of Netaji more than city guys.
It was a norm to have pictures of Gandhi, Netaji on the walls few decades back.
As per current govt., Nehru-gandhi family is divine and rest are trash..it was same rule then.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Muslim League has been controlling education dept in all Congress ministries ever since the state was formed, and they have been slowly rewriting History text books here “”
Very sad indeed. Is Kerala becoming another Pakistan ?
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:35 am
kerala will become a dangerous place, a devils place; not “Gods own land”– the ingredients to make it the next Kashmir are there. Politicians who are concerned about vote banks pretend like nothing is happening. Kids have been recruited from here to fight in Kashmir. In fact the reports say that one of the guys in custody in connection with the Delhi HC bombings is a keralite Muslim – now, Muslims in kerala are not poor or not uneducated..Their educational level is close to Christians and Hindus; and they are the second richest after christians. So, if they are “dissatisfied” and want jehadism, God save other parts of India!
The Congress govt will fall apart but for the support of the Muslim league who has 25 seats in the 133 or so seat assembly. KunjaliKuttuy, the senior Muslim league minister is the defacto CM. OOmen Chandy, the congress CM, cannot do anything without the Muslim league support.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Now you are becoming like all the other crazies — ………..”
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:52 am
All corrupt people stand on the right and all the honest people on the left, no cheating please. We have to take an “official” count to know it “unofficially”.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
The British made fun of Netaji. And Nirad Chaudhari called him a “joker in jackboots…” What is your opinion of the white anglo saxon protestents and nirad babu… Now…
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
@vijayKumar, Nirad choudhuri is the person who had read the most number of books a human being can read .also he knew , german , french and latin and sanskrit by heart.
Having said that like every human being he had few failings.
he was BLIND to the scum Winston Churchill and he was DUPLITICIOUS on subhas bose . He called him a THUG in a BBC interview. but when it came to writing in bengali newspapers , he was effusive in his praise for his BRAVERY .
There was two TAMARIND character who had done enough damage to bengal ,one is the malayali KARAT , other is yechuri.
A third malayali joins that list .
He is SHASHI THAROOR.
This fellow gave a talk on the centenary of netaji’s birth on BBC radio.He said Netaji’s PATRIOTISM was essentially his anti british feeling which grew from the racism he suffered while in england for his ICS exam.
This lump of shit called Tharoor should know NETAJI CAME 4th in ICS YET DECLINED THE OFFER OF SERVING THE BRITISH CROWN
NEHRU FAILED TWICE IN THE ICS EXAM WHICH HE ASSIDUOSLY SAT.
Tharoor is not qualified to even lick the shit of netaji
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Netaji was a patriot in his own way; Nirad may be right one time!
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
I am sure its celebrated in Bengal. When I was a kid, I remember marching through the streets with other kids from the local physical training club, singing songs in praise master Surya sen, on his anniversary. There is a prominent Surya Sen Street in Calcutta and similar ones all over Bengal.
However, I was not aware of Pratilata.
Can it get more pathetic . So you now want to get credit for sending money to Pakistan flood victims, which you now claim ( like your lie full thuggish claims about rapes in UP ) are motivated partly by desire to help poor Hindu girl in Sindh ! So this donation will some how flow to the brutalized Hindus in Sindh who make 2% of Pak population ?
This is from someone who has always found excuses for the numerous jihadi criminals and the constitutional venality that Pak state shows against its own minority citizens by arguing that there are extremists among Hindus too, so there is no difference ?
Since you have gone public with your charitable donation , since charity begins at home, how many Indians whom you don’t know, have you helped ? How about victims of earthquake in Sikkim or more pertinently so many victims of poverty in India ?
So I assume you help them on a regular basis or are you, as many have argued here, is an apologetic for the thuggish Pak state and its people who have killed, raped and reduced Hindu/Sikh population of W Pakistan from 25% to 2% ?
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
The hindu and christian flood victims were not given relief because the money came from ZAKAAT funds meant only for muslims.
But what about the money coming from Kafir nations…
Sometimes these muslims shock everyone with their doublespeak.
Vinod makes sweeping and judgmental sattements sucha s Modi “struggling to get rid of his GORY past”, “ppolitics is not reading betwee the lines’, no genuine connection with the 2002 riot victims etc” l
Modi has won several elections; he rose from an ordinary party worker to the CMship not because he had his mother, father, grandfather, gradmother, great grandfather, great great grandfather in politics unlike Rahul Gandhi..so, looks like Modi knows a little about politics without having to listen to pundits…
Attributing nilly willy to a “gory” past does not tie one withwith that.. Twice Gjrat has voted him in.. Consider it a PR failure on his part that he could not make no-gujratis believe him — may be they do believe, it is only the vested media that continuously pumps in..
And why should he apologize or “connect” with the riot victims.. He becomes a party in the crime if he apologizes.. May be he should have apologized for the state.
There are too many pygmies running around..
They grudgingly accept his capability ad stature; but their PR is better than Modi’s.. Election is about getting votes; he should show that he can win a third time; and win with a huge majority.. discourse will be different then
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
You are right. The moment Modi apologize all hell will break loose.
All pseudo seculars will claim victory and will shout from the roof top
claiming that they were always right about Modi’s invlovement. I think Modi
is too shrewd to fall for this trap .
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Mohan and Shoeb
As he has chosen not to express any remorse and apologise for his failure to protect the lives of innocent people under his tutelage then, that is why he is stuck in Gujarat – 10 years have passed since then. He had a good opportunity to do so at the recent Sadbhavna fast (make that Sad Bhavna farce).
Whether he is too shrewd not to fall in the “trap”, only time will tell.
Modi and you two have forgotten that
To err is human, to seek forgiveness divine.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:48 am
Too bad the great humanist Rajiv Gandhi too forgot about the divinity of forgiveness. Even his widow couldn’t bring herself to accept that her husband had ordered the massacre of 4000 Sikhs. After two decades she forced a very contrived, phony, duplicitous “apology” from Manmohan Singh, a Sikh himself, but took care to make pogrom-tainted Tytler a minister in her ministry!
A bigger farce is being enacted right now in Delhi about who should resign first-Pranab or Chidambaram. The still bigger farce will be when Manmohan Singh himself will be forced to put in his papers after giving first Raja and now Chidambaram clean chits.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
“Modi has won several elections, ……”
Therefore, he should be looked at sympathetically and forgiven for his alleged acts of omission and commission in 2002? Very well. In that case, we should forgive all the alleged criminals (with serious charges of murder, dacoity, kidnapping and what not), who have also won elections. No double standards. Also let us forget and forgive Congress party for 1984 as they have won 4 general elections after that horrific incident.
Jyoti Basu won 5 times, Sheila Dixit 3 times. Mohanlal Sukhadia 3 times, etc. So what is so special about Modi winning 2 times and would for the third time?
“he rose from an ordinary party worker to the CMship not because he had his mother, father, grandfather, gradmother, great grandfather, great great grandfather in politics”
So did Mayawati and host of others. What is the point are you trying to make? That such persons have more rights over the ‘gaddi’, deserve more sympathy and be treated with kid-gloves than whose ancestors were in politics!
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
I was simply making an argument on Sharma’s views/non-views. He made statements like “gory past”, “how to win elections”, “connection with the riot victims etc”.. and my point was that all that is non-sense.
It was not a value-judgement on the man; but a point by point refuting of Sharma’s points. (Sharma said he cannot win elections, he also said he cannot get out of his gory past, and said he didnt connect with the victims)
I related to Modi’s winning experience that he won on his own,and not thru any family lineage (you are right; others have won too; but Sheila has a lineage; may be not Mayawati) ; so he need not listen to “pundits” like Sharma.
And the argument is that he should ignore what the press says and move on. Let the people decide. Obviously, he should be cognizant (which I am sure he is) of the PR barrage, since that is all what the opposition has; and he should give *** for tat.
I am not talking about overlooking anybody’s faults. Let the public voters decide if he can lead the country. He has not been convicted of any crime — this whole notion is a fa-rfetched theme of Congress to deny election victory. Modi knows that; many in BJP also know that.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 4:53 am
By all means, counter or agree with whoever expresses an opinion. That is what civilised debate is all about,
In this case, I found your counter defence rather suspect and not very convincing. You may throw my rejoinder out of the window – no problem whatsoever.
I am sure, he will never be convicted of any crime, which politician worth his salt has ever been convicted in India? We can count them on finger tips. Tragic indeed.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Rajiv Gandhi, after massacring 4000 Sikhs and demonising Sikhs as terrorists in election posters soon after, too won a massive 440 seat victory. It is the individual in the case of Modi, but the party responsible for the pogrom against Sikhs in 1984! What a twisted logic! Only congressie trolls can dish out this kind of drivel!!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:25 am
It is you who keeps dishing out drivel, by desperate attempts to put words in other people’s mouths and then proceeding to lambast them.
Either your memory is short or is non-existent (looks like the latter). Show me one post of mine, where I have even remotely endorsed/overlooked Rajiv Gandhi for his in-action or praised winning 400+ seats thereafter.
Try this with someone else, not me. Now, go take a walk and do not forget to wear your patriotism or nationalism (whatever be the flavour of the day) on your sleeve, lest the people on the road………
BTW, you should not be talking logic, its a ‘phoren’ word in your lexicon.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:47 am
It is unbelievable you forget what you wrote just a post earlier: “Also let us forget and forgive Congress party for 1984…” Did you, due to your failing memory ‘forget (and forgive)’ to mention Rajiv Gandhi?
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Picking up a sentence out of context – that is what you specialise in for your nefarious purpose. How else will you spread lies, falsehoods and untruths as dictated by the RSS. If you have the guts, post the full statement by me (I know from where it has been taken). You may think you are too clever by half, but the rest of us know what you are. Let me see how many taalis you get from your fans and chelaas for twisting my post out of context.
You did the same with my question to Gopi.
I have no problem if you keep making yourself an object of ridicule, in fact, it gives the rest of us some comic relief in the midst of serious debates.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:33 am
Shoeb, mohan, Gopi,
here is a good article on Modi in the Indian Express:
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
AFAIK, this article and website does not belong to the Goenka’s Indian Express group, as BVS would like us to believe, by omitting the word New.
should have been
here is a good article on Modi in The New Indian Express:
He has been very economical with the truth (no surprises – he is an expert at twisting sentences and names out of context).
What should one call him? I leave it to the individual members.
PS: If you can show solid hard evidence (I could not find any) that this New Indian Express is indeed a part of the Goenka group, I will stand corrected and will profusely apologise to you for the above. If not able toget that evicence, I will save you the embarrassment, you do not have to do anything.
UPA is at its lowest during its 7 year misrule but I wonder how come Vinod is still stuck with badmouthing BJP.
It is time he start looking at his own party.
I think your comment has been eliminated as you posted as a guest and guest comments are subjecct to moderation. I suggest you take a DISQUS ID or come thru ur twitter ID as you were doing.
I would also suggest to all to either choose sort by newest or sort by oldest to get continuity of comments. Otherwise you would be moving all over the galaxy to make sense of the blog.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Yes it is easier posting with DISQUS ID but I will anytime take old format.
By the way when are planning to come here ?
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Thx for the invite. Some day… probably soon we will be sharing a beer at the Irish bar… Dubai !
This is for blind followers of Gandhi who have only read Govt. propaganda.
Who Brought Freedom, Gandhi or Netaji?
Recent research shows that Netaji Subhas Bose and the INA were responsible for the British leaving in 1947 in a hurry. The Fall of Singapore to the Japanese in 1942 rather than Mahatma Gandhi’s Quit India Movement was the beginning of the end of the British Empire. Dr. N.S. Rajaram finds out more.
There is a story that the late Mao Zedong, when asked his opinion about Napoleon as a leader replied: “How can I say? He is too recent.” Napoleon’s career ended in the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 and Mao died only in 1976. So what could Mao have meant when he said that Napoleon was too recent? He meant that a certain amount of time has to pass before we can view historical events and personalities objectively. Our reading of recent events is bound to be colored by our closeness to them. This truth was brought home to me a few years ago when I was visiting Penang in Malaysia as the guest of some veterans of World War II, but first some background.
In India, people are brought up on the story that Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru—with others receive grudging notice if at all—led a heroic struggle freeing India from the British rule. Miraculously, the whole thing was accomplished without resort to violence, by the application of a mighty spiritual force called ahimsa (non-violence) unleashed by the Mahatma. If true it is a tribute not only to the power of Gandhi’s (and Nehru’s) spiritual vision, but also a lasting tribute to the spiritual sensitivity of the British rulers. Like the tiger in the children’s poem (govina kathe in Kannada), which killed itself rather than eat the calf, the British gave up the empire and left.
This received a jolt during a recent trip to Southeast Asia where I had occasion to visit some people who had served with my late father during World War II. Their account of their experience in the period from 1942 to 45 casts serious doubt on this beautiful story. Here we are faced with a dilemma— the conflict between what we read in history books and what the people actually saw on the ground. The usual story is that after some initial reverses the British defeated the Japanese. But those who actually served there, now in their late 70s and 80s, remember it quite differently. Uniformly, this is what I heard everywhere and from everyone.
“When the Japanese attacked, the British ran away. They were very clever. They had a wonderful life with bungalows and butlers and cooks and all that, but as soon as the Japanese came, they ran away. And once they got back to India, they sent Gurkhas, Sikhs, Marathas and other Indians to fight the Japanese. They knew it was too dangerous for them. That is how we got independence in Malaya.” Malaysia was then called Malaya and Singapore was its capital.
Not one of them remembered the British fighting the Japanese— only running away. They remember also Indian soldiers coming and fighting; some of them stayed back in countries like Malaya (as it was then called), Singapore and other places. One man, who as a youngster had been my father’s orderly during the War, invited me to his home in Penang for the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Singapore. What he told me took my breath away.
“That is why the British left India also. When the war was over, all the Indian soldiers who had defeated the Japanese returned to India, and the British got scared. They didn’t want to fight the Indians who had just fought and defeated the Japanese. So they ran away from India also.”
I tried to explain to him that Gandhiji’s nonviolence was the force that convinced the British to leave. But this man, not an intellectual but a battle-hardened soldier with sound commonsense would have none of it. “If it was non-violence, why didn’t they leave earlier? Gandhi and the nonviolence were there before the war also. Did they have to wait for the Japanese to come and teach them non-violence?”
One may smile at this simple way of looking at history, but as will be seen later, this revisionist view has good support. The ‘authorized’ version with Gandhi and Nehru as central figures continues to be taught in India because it benefits those in power. It shows the British also in favorable light as a magnanimous and even spiritual people, which of course they don’t mind. But history shows a different picture.
The year 1942 was momentous. It was the year in which the British Empire suffered a massive defeat at the hands of an Asiatic people (Japanese); it was also the year in which Mahatma Gandhi launched his famous but ill-fated Quit India Movement. Subhas Bose also entered the picture at about that time, first in Germany and later in Southeast Asia. But first it is necessary to get an idea of the momentous impact of the Japanese victory on the psyche of the colonized people as well as on that of the colonizing powers. What triggered it was the Fall of Singapore.
The fall of Singapore in 1942 heralded the end of the British Empire and of European colonialism in general. Indian independence came in 1947, but what really ended the Empire was the fall of Singapore. This has received scant notice by Indian historians who remain trapped in Eurocentric thinking, but there is ample evidence supporting it. Among Indian historians, only R.C. Majumdar has seen its significance: the fall of Singapore broke the spirit of Imperial Britain. As we shall soon see British historians have themselves admitted it. Let us look at what really happened to the British in 1942.
When the Japanese attacked Singapore in February 1942, its large and well-equipped British garrison surrendered without a fight. These well-attended ‘pukka sahibs’—used to good living—had little stomach for war. For decades, the ruling authorities had avoided facing the truth that they were not a fighting force. They had deluded themselves with resounding slogans— calling Singapore the ‘Bastion of the Empire,’ ‘Impregnable Fortress,’ ‘Gibraltar of the East’ and such. None of it helped when Singapore fell to a Japanese army less than a third the size of the defending forces.
Yet, so far removed from reality were Singapore’s British residents, that even on the verge of surrender, a gunnery officer was refused permission to mount guns on the golf links for defending the city. He was told that he needed permission from the golf club committee. And the golf club committee would not be meeting for at least a week, so he better hold off!
In the fall of Singapore, its symbolic significance was infinitely greater than the military defeat. It destroyed the myth of European superiority over the Asiatics once and for all. Historian James Leasor wrote in his Singapore, the battle that changed the world:
“Dazed by the incredible superiority of the Japanese, the defenders’ will to win had withered. … The psychological damage was even greater than the military defeat— and this had been grotesque enough. …Under the lowering Singapore sky lit by the funeral pyres of the British Empire … a door closed on centuries of white supremacy … ” Actually the Japanese had planned it that way— to break the sense of superiority exuded by the Europeans, by the British in particular, in their dealings with the Asiatics. Leasor wrote:
“At the start of the campaign, each Japanese soldier had been issued with a pamphlet that set out Japan’s reasons for fighting the British and the Americans. Her [Japan’s] claim was that she would liberate East Asia from white rule and oppression,” for since “We Japanese, as an Eastern people, have ourselves for long been classed alongside the Chinese and the Indians as an inferior race, and treated as such, we must at the very least, here in Asia, beat these Westerners to submission, that they may change their arrogant and ill-mannered attitude.”
The Japanese attack on Singapore accomplished much more: it ended the British Empire to be followed swiftly by the end of European imperialism itself. To return to the fall of Singapore, as with the fall of Hong Kong a few weeks earlier, the only worthwhile resistance had come from the Indian garrisons— the Sikh and the Gurkha regiments. The prestige and the mystique associated with the British Empire were shattered by these ignominious defeats.
And this is how my gracious host in Penang and his friends, men who had seen it at first hand, remember it. As they saw it, the massive defeat destroyed the British morale. It was the specter of the whole nightmare being reenacted in India, with nearly three million Indian soldiers just returned from war, which made the British leave India. “They ran away,” the old soldier kept telling me repeatedly.
I may point out that this is also the view of many Indians who saw action in the war— both in the Indian Army and those who fought in Subhas Bose’s INA. Indian soldiers saw that their British officers were frightened to death of the Japanese, while they themselves were prepared to fight them.
After the War, the British defeat in Singapore was followed by the French defeat in Dien Bien Phu at the hands of Ho Chi Min’s soldiers in Vietnam. This laid the groundwork for the American defeat in all of Vietnam and their inglorious flight from Saigon. No one today talks about the superiority of the ‘White Race’. The first nail in coffin was driven by the Japanese in Malaya in 1942.
It was this changed perception, that the British were just ordinary mortals like the rest that allowed Netaji Subhas Bose to recruit Indians in Southeast Asia into the Indian National Army (Azad Hind Fauz or the INA). Subhas Bose saw that the Indian armed forces were the prop of the Empire— not just in India but everywhere the British went. But Gandhi and Nehru, preoccupied with their utopian dreams of nonviolence failed to realize its significance. When the opportunity arose, Bose seized it to transform the armed forces into a nationalist force, while Gandhi and Nehru started the Quit India Movement which collapsed in a few weeks.
Before we look further, we need to ask: what support do we have for this revisionist view, that Subhas Bose and the INA brought freedom to India? The evidence is ample and impeccable. Several have noted it, but the most distinguished historian to highlight Bose’s contribution was the late R.C. Majumdar, one of modern India’s greatest historians. In his monumental, three-volume History of the Freedom Movement in India (Firma KLM, Calcutta) Majumdar provided the following extraordinary evidence:
“It seldom falls to the lot of a historian to have his views, differing radically from those generally accepted without demur, confirmed by such an unimpeachable authority. As far back as 1948 I wrote in an article that the contribution made by Netaji Subas Chandra Bose towards the achievement of freedom in 1947 was no less, and perhaps, far more important than that of Mahatma Gandhi…”
The ‘unimpeachable authority’ he cited happened to be Clement Attlee, the Prime Minister of Britain at the time of India’s independence. Since this is of fundamental importance, and Majumdar’s conclusion so greatly at variance with the conventional history, it is worth placing it on record (Volume III, pages 609 –10).
When B.P. Chakravarti was acting as Governor of West Bengal, Lord Attlee visited India and stayed as his guest at the Raj Bhavan for three days. Chakravarti asked Attlee about the real grounds for granting independence to India. Specifically, his question was, when the Quit India movement lay in shambles years before 1947, where was the need for the British to leave in such a hurry. Attlee’s response is most illuminating and important for history. Here is Governor Chakrabarti’s account of what Attlee told him:
“In reply Attlee cited several reasons, the most important were the activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose which weakened the very foundation of the attachment of the Indian land and naval forces to the British Government. Towards the end, I asked Lord Attlee about the extent to which the British decision to quit India was influenced by Gandhi’s activities. On hearing this question Attlee’s lips widened in a smile of disdain and he uttered, slowly, putting emphasis on each single letter— ‘mi-ni-mal’.” (Emphasis added.)
Another point worth noting: after the fall of Singapore that ended the British Empire, the most dramatic national event was the INA Trial at the Red Fort— not any movement by Gandhi or Nehru. This led to the mutiny of the naval ratings, which, more than anything helped the British make up their minds to leave India in a hurry. They sensed that it was only a matter of time before the mutiny spread to other parts of the armed forces and the Government. None of this would have happened without Subhas Bose and the INA.
The crucial point to note is that thanks to Subhas Bose’s activities, the Indian Armed Forces began to see themselves as defenders of India rather than of the British Empire. This, more than anything else, was what led to India’s freedom. This is also the reason why the British Empire disappeared from the face of the earth within an astonishingly short space of twenty years. Indian soldiers, who were the main prop of the Empire, were no longer willing to fight to hold it together. This is the essence of leadership.
This brings us back to Mao’s half joking reply— that it takes time to get the proper historical perspective. It is now more than sixty years since India became free. We can afford to look back and see the real reasons for British leaving India in a hurry. To sum up, by the end of the War, Gandhi was a spent force, and Subhas Bose was India’s most popular leader.
Now, sixty years and more later it is time to recognize the truth: first, it was the Fall of Singapore in 1942, not the Quit India Movement that was the beginning of the end of the British Empire; and finally, it was Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose more than anyone else who was responsible for India’s freedom in 1947.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
A thought provoking essay. would not comment further, either for or against, but it certainly makes one think. Remember, Subhash Bose was elected president of Congress, against the wishes of Gandhiji, underlining his popularity.
BTW, have you seen movie ” Bridge on the River Qwai” ? battle scenes are from the same theater of war, which you described. A must see movie. Old one, but feel, still available.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
I find it interesting when people of who follow religion of violence revere Gandhi for their vested interest.
Ravi lauding Gandhi is like Osama talking about non-violence.
a great movie, its theme tune is still a great favourite of mine. It made a star of William Holden. I still rmember the Japanese commander’s advice to the Allied prisoners, “all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy”.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Indeed a grat movie. I am happy that you also appreciated it. Japanese General was great here(acting and character).
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
If people are wondering as to who Dr. N. S. Rajaram is, here is the link
which too can be taken with a pinch of salt as also the above article by him.
Here is a link that can be an eye opener re: Dr. Rajaram
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
@Manohar_T , dont need to take it from rajaram , take it from me .
Read patrick french” liberty or death”
Fall of singapore WAS A PIVOTAL MOMENT IN THE BEGINING OF THE END.
The most IMPORTANT REASON WAS AMERICAN PRESSURE ON BRITISH
this Atlee comment is new to me .
GANDHIJI’S ONLY CONTRIBUTION IS THE CONCEPT OF NON VIOLENCE AS AN IDEOLOGICAL WEAPON.
GANDHIJI’S ANTICS HAD ZERO EFFECT ON THE BRITISH , IT HAD A NUISANCE VALUE, IT HAD NO CONTRIBUTION IN ACHEIVING INDEPENDENCE
As we saw Gandhi could do nothing to prevent partition . Jinnah always felt GANDHI REPRESENTED ORTHODOX HINDU CLASS
No wonder netaji called him an old sofa
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 3:47 am
This Attlee comment – is it officially documented somewhere or is it Rajaram and his types’ manufactured tale for RSS’ propaganda?
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:10 am
No dearth for revisionists! Looks like Rajaram is the opposite of Romlla.. both bad!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 3:49 am
Agree. Always be wary of people with nefarious agendas.
MOhanRRRR Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:32 am
Very very interesting. Many people may not agree with these views
but it is worth pondering .
Please read this and make your own judgement if so-called father of the nation Gandhi got us the freedom.
[When B.P. Chakravarti was acting as Governor of West Bengal, Lord Attlee visited India and stayed as his guest at the Raj Bhavan for three days. Chakravarti asked Attlee about the real grounds for granting independence to India. Specifically, his question was, when the Quit India movement lay in shambles years before 1947, where was the need for the British to leave in such a hurry. Attlee’s response is most illuminating and important for history. Here is Governor Chakrabarti’s account of what Attlee told him:
“In reply Attlee cited several reasons, the most important were the activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose which weakened the very foundation of the attachment of the Indian land and naval forces to the British Government. Towards the end, I asked Lord Attlee about the extent to which the British decision to quit India was influenced by Gandhi’s activities. On hearing this question Attlee’s lips widened in a smile of disdain and he uttered, slowly, putting emphasis on each single letter— ‘mi-ni-mal’.” (Emphasis added.)
Those curious about who is the Father of Our Nation, can find evidence to support Subhash Chandra Bose’s candidature at the following link.
~~~~ DIGVINASH MOVES CLOSER TO THE RASGULLA — THE rajgaddi ~~~~
Chiddu (chunnu) has been removed effectively from the claim to PM’s seat by Munnu (pranabda) .
Digviahs who probably orchestered this phenomenon was watching this from the background and encouragin it … must have been laughing all the way to his Swiss bank.
Now he has stepped forward to impress Mummy– Sonia. That the honour of the Congress is at stakes and Chunnu must be defended. This way Munnu (pranabda) gets a bad name in Mummy’s eyes for spoiling the UPA name.
So Pranabda ka bhi patta saaf.
The roads are getting cleared for Digviansh ascent to the crown.
SHENOY sahaab… please get some poetry ready. Your favourite dunce could be the PM. And Amar Singh Dahla his home Minister.
Meanwhile I will just say, “hey Ram… hai Allah… Oh Jesus… hai rabba… spare me this torture…”
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Dont give me nightmares. This scenario of Digvijay Singh as PM is a scene from the Ramsay brothers horror film….
Ravi Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
And the prospect that Mohan Bhagwat will become a Prime Minister- once removed – is filling me with dread that I last felt when I saw Bhoot Bangla.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
MOhan Bhagwat as per my knowledge is not in acitve politics. Only a dreamer would ever believe that he is going to be the PM.
However the chances of Digvijay coming in are real as outlined by our friend Vijay. The Gandhi family needs street smart chamchas. Digvijay fits the mould.
It would be a disaster for India… Or do you think he is the right successor to Manmohan?
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
Ravi would like terrorists like Osama to rule India..He is two faced SOB.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
is that so? I am new to this blog…
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
He is total fake..He was the only one on this blog who mourned death of Osama as if he was his bewaa.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
I think you must have been v ery innocent or a terror symapathiser if you did that…
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:33 am
Yes Sanjay, I am very innocent altogether. I beleive RSS is a social work organistaion and that the earth is flat.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:37 am
Arre bhaiya… O my uncle…
The danger of this madcap, the Donquixote Rahul and the Sancho Panza Digvinash coming to power is real.
Thum khushi khushi UK mein theory par theory maartta rahega…
We people will suffer !
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:52 am
I believe that you will suffer more under Bhagwati policies than an of Digvijay’s or Rahul’s
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Bhagwat is NOT in the race to be the PM. Digviash SIngh is… We can deport him ot the UK, if you luv his ideas so much. For a start he would link the London train bombings to a RSS group…
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:32 am
Which bit of “once removed” did you not understand.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:26 am
for taking money Kalmadi went to jail
but Amar dahla managed to get bail
Digvinash has made certain that HM would fail
and that PM has between his legs his tail
In great fear Pranab Mukherji bites his nail,
says, ‘once I lose my job, I’ll travel only by rail’
Rajamata has let out a loud and shrill wail
‘How soon to my Rome may I set sail’
For Amul Baby, she has plans to unveil
on cue, congressies are saying, ‘hail Rahul, hail’.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Hail Shenoy !! for the marvellous take on the state of affair..
@ Mr Vijay
Your example of Pranab Mukherji eliminating Chidambram and then losing face in front of UPA members could be true. Even Modi has spoken of kites cutting each other…
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:06 am
I think they will cut each others kites for sure. In the end Sonia mummy will launch Digviash Singh’s kite and the dor would be in the hands of Mr gaffe Prone Amul baby
A terrorist who justifies Osama’s ideology, Islamic terrorism considers Gandhi father of the nation…
He is called Ravi..the fake sikh.
Just few years back, congressis used to shout for MMS ‘Singh is king’…few days from now they will shout ‘Singh is SIN-KING’.
(has two meanings boojho to jaane).
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Well Singh may Sink. Somewhere I feel there was better way for him to go. his legacy as a reformer is huge.
The present naked lust of a few Congressmen to get the PM’s seat has made him seem to be weak.
Somewhere we have to place manmohan ji as among best PM’s to rule India.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
you are right. Dr MMS is a great man, a great patriot who saved India in its darkest need. He knows he is not a “leader” of the people; but he gave his best when called on by his country.
It is unfair that the BJP trolls here lump him along with vermins like Digvijay.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Nice to know that you agree with me. I remember 1991. The country was bankrupt. 23% inflation prevailed becasue fo VP SIngh’s disasterous rule. Out Oil import bill was larger than our total exports.
Nobody wanted to laon money to us.
And a socialist thought process of government enterprises only, only prevailed.
Manmohan Singh changed all this.
the present generation may not know all this.
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
I am not alleging anything against MMS. All I am saying is that his time is over..he is sinking to the bottom. I accuse him of only one thing..He kept mum when his ministry also called Chalis chor were looting India freely.
Lastly I don’t consider BJP my party but I’ll choose it over Nehru-Gandhis led congress any day.
Rajeev, agree with the fact that Netaji is being forgotten. He was a very brave man who died too soon. Imagine if he and Sardar Patel had been alive for 10 years longer. Wow!!!
But there is a medical word- multi-factorial aetiology. Meaning some processes have many factors in their genesis. Indian independence came about because of all of the following-
Nehru, Gandhi, Congress etc
The general awakening of people- swaabhiman
Militancy- 1857, Netaji, nanha shahid Khudiram Bose, Azaad, INA, Bhagat Singh etc
WW2 which left UK exhausted
Japanese hit on Uk- fall of Singapore etc
Thus it is difficult to say which factor was dominant. MY CONTENTION IS THAT GANDHIJI’S APPROACH SAVED US A LOT OF BLOODSHED. Otherwise Indian soldiers on Brit orders would have been killing Indian freedom fighters
Dr Mishra Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
enjoyed reading yr article rajeev- Rani of Khansi, Netaji- they are tragic Karna like characters in the mahabharat of Indian independence- got overshadowed by the Arjun of ahimsa and Gandhi. India owes them
Anonymous Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
The history that is taught to us is pure glorification of few rather than record of true events. I still fail to understand why can’t we study Gandhi’s life objectively. The congressis are turning him into another Prophet Mohammad who can not be criticized.
Similarly Nehru’s relation with Edwina should be studied in historical sense..so the marriage of Netaji.
All these leaders were human and it will be great disservice to those soul if we start worshipping them blindly.
Lastly I think Indians should be given freedom to follow leader of their choice rather than forcing Gandhi and Nehru down the throat.
Gandhi doesn’t inspire me to the level Netaji and Bhagat Singh do. It is my personal choice to reject Gandhi.
Pankaj#1 Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
If people think that ICS was some thing in those days, Netaji was chosen for ICS and refused to join that. He was destined for hgher things. Can not refute MKG’s legacy but others have equally, if not more, cotributed.. Regarding MMS as a saviour along with Narsimha Rao. totally agree with his approach, but presently feel that ” Razia fans gayi Gunndan main”.
****, ENGLISH AND INDEPENDENCE”””””’
Rajeev, one final comment, I am not interested in what some bloody Atlee thought of Gandhiji- to quote him as if he was the biggest authority on independence is incorrect.
Also Gopi is right. Read ‘The rape of Nanking’- it was written by a Chinese who grew up in US. She went back to China and meticulously researched oral testimonies of survivors for years. The brutality of the **** in wanton murder and rape ( there are photos obtained from *** soldiers of bayonets stuck into the vaginas of women they raped)- will chill you.
So Netaji may have been making a Faustian pact with the devil. Life is tragic, complex and unpredictable
Dr Mishra Reply:September 24th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
recorded testimony of RAPE OF NANKING-
‘ On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. . Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. …………………..The last murders in the house were of Ha’s two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[50)
2.5 lakh killed over only 6 weeks, 40,000 raped, ^ John E. Woods,The Good man of Nanking, the Diaries of John Rabe, p.281
Rajeev, Netaji, who I respect hugely, may have been out of his depth – between Hitler and the ****, bloodthirsty savages both
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:24 am
You are too generous in comparing Netaji to Karna.
May be in a sense you may be OK, because this Karna had a pact with Hitler, the modern day Duryodghan. As you know he even met Mr Himmler.
Netaji was a flash, an impatient man. His goal was great; means were suspect. He did not understand India or Indians. Mahathmaji understood India, Indians — in fact one can say it was he who pulled together modern India, until him and his movement and his criss-crossings, India was a loose loose set of princedoms, Islamic rulers, and British territories, Portuguese territory, and French territory.
Sardar Patel is in a different class; will not equate him with Netaji.
That does not mean Netaji was not a great freedom fighter. he was; but not the light at the top of the mountain!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:17 am
I disagree with you. In fact I find Gandhi’s role in our freedom struggle suspect. Why did british media cover him so much? Gandhi and his non-violence were tools used by brits to control Indian who they did not trust after 1857.
Gandhi was no Mahatma..I guess you have read too much NCERT text books.
Sardar Patel was different class and Netaji is altogether different. Both were great men who lost to cunning Gandhi and Nehru.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:23 am
The kind of contempt that you show for Netaji is product of constant congressi brainwashing that you got all your life.
Did you know about Gandhi’s sexuality till it came out in open thru his letter to his jew partner?
Gandhi was basically Drithrashtra who blindly allowed Duryodhana Nehru to usurp the kingdom called India.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 4:00 am
“Did you know about Gandhi’s sexuality till ……..”
Is it relevant to India’s struggle for and achieving Independence?
If so, how? Will you care to explain?
(I do not give damn as to what one does within the four walls of his/her bedroom)
“Gandhi was basically Drithrashtra who blindly allowed Duryodhana Nehru to usurp the kingdom called India”.
In that case, in your book the people of India must be morons to return him to power in three general elections.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 4:12 am
A large number of Indians contributed in their own way for India to achieve Independence, but the major contribution was by Mahatma Gandhi, I have no doubt about that. Let us not belittle any one of them, though one may not agree with the methods employed by them.
It seems RSS propaganda machinery is in full swing here to discredit their objects of hate.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:38 am
You would have believed Atlees’s every word, had he praised Gandhi.
Indians have no sense of history…All they like is praise and praise..
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 4:56 am
Indians have no sense of history, except RajeevS.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:51 am
Even he confuses fantasy with history
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:44 am
But, for Pakistanis, there is no confusion.
They believe their fantasy is their history.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:32 am
I do not give a फ्लाईंग फ़क about what Pakistanis do.
You are obviously obsessed by it.
You are welcome to Pakistan and it to you.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Really funny !! U made me rock with laughter with this comment !
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Shri B V Shenoy is having a field day (after two days of slumber – how peaceful this blog was) by calling others jehadis, pakistanis and whatever adjectives he can think of.
We have really “made” his day.
He will go to bed tonight as a very satisfied person and sleep like an “amul baby” – having done his duty for his cause and earning a few “taalis” in the process. He should remember that there is not much difference between a ‘taali’ and a ‘gaali’ – just one alphabet.
Contributing anything substantial and intelligent is out of the question for reasons best known to him.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:21 am
I am not praising **** or Germans.
I just want to state that Gandhi was product of Hype by British who considered him a friendly enemy who was totally harmless.
Gandhi was class hypocrite who showed his true political colors when he forced Netaji out of Congress and later in spite 13 Pradesh Congress Comm. supporting Patel as PM, he made a dictatorial decision of choosing Nehru as PM.
The same Nehru sidelined Gandhi after 1947.
Both Nehru and Gandhi deserved each other…
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:49 am
Actually, Mahatma Gandhi imposed his decision of making Nehru as PM, on India, like a dictator.
Rupee decline, possibility of a second recession, possibility of a double dip in the US, european crisis etc require diligent action from India to minimize any possible impacts. The never ending G2 (with the open letter campaign between FM and Chidambaram), the total paralysis and crisis-to-crisis management of the country etc do not bode well when focused attention should be given to prevent negative impacts.
The opposition jumping for the head of Chidambaram is too childish. Then they should not complaint about Diggie’s remarks about BJP – that BJP is after Chidambaram because Chidambaram mentioned about safron terror.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:56 am
Also, what happens if/when US starts going after LeT/Haqquani etc now that they have given notice to Pakistanis.
There will be an increase in cross border attacks, even the possibility of a 11/26 type. The issues are tough and complex.. we have to provide all the support to the Govt now, and vote them out (or in) in 2014 elections.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 4:26 am
Rightly said so.
GANDHIJI’S JAIL JATRA
Mohan Das Gandhi and his immediate entourage -the secretary mahadev desai , his wife Kasturba ,the devoted Mirabehn and his doctor Sushila Nayar were taken to different location and given SPECIAL TREATMENT.
THE AGA KHAN’S PALACE IN POONA WAS THEIR LUXURIOUS PRISON
At the palace , having been given a good breakfast on the train from Bombay , “with waiters , menus and all the rest”, things proved very comfortable for the prisoners.
On arrival Mirabehn became concerned about mahatma’s diet, and went on to see the head jailor , a tall parsi called Mr Kateley.
‘WHAT ABOUT GOAT’S MILK’ she asked ,Bapu has had hardly anything to eat ‘
GOATS ARE KEPT READY , Mr Kateley replied
THREE GOATS WERE TETHERED IN THE YARD ,WAITING TO BE MILKED
Page 156 ,I S B N 0 00 255771 1, pub HarperCollins
Rajeev- your comment- ‘ You would have believed Atlees’s every word, had he praised Gandhi ‘ is wrong because I consider Atlee to be a nobody. The Brits were at odds with Gandhi and India so when humiliated by India/ Gandhi on the world stage, their taking some digs at Gandhi is understandable.
More biting was the dig that the Mahatma took at them, also an example of his wit. When asked what he thought of western civilisation, he remarked smilingly, ‘It would be a good idea’
GANDHIJI’S HATRED TOWARDS THE BRITISH
In a Letter `back to London , Lord Lithingow, reported that Gandhi had”told me ,the idea of any enemy defacing or damaging Westminister Abbey was INTOLERABLE TO HIM, … and he contemplated the present struggle WITH AN ENGLISH HEART”
I(lord Lithingow) was greatly struck with the DEPTH OF REAL FEELING which,so far as i could estimate , Mr Gandhi showed during this part of conversation , HIS EMOTION AT TIMES SO MARKED AS TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO CONTINUE WITH WHAT HE WAS SAYING”
page 120 ,I S B N 0 00 255771 , pub Harper Collins
So we are revising History yet again.
One needs to look at the contribution made by the HINDU RIGHT in the freedom struggle.
What did Hedgewar, Golwalkar and Savarkar contribute to the struggle for Freedom.
Realising this weakness in their candidature to lead India, the RSS is beginning to encroach on Historical Congress figures.
One would have noticed, that not only Shivaji has been press ganged into the service of the RSS, now increasingly attempt is being made to suggest that Sardar Patel, given free choice, would have been an RSS man. B.G. Tilak will be the next one to be roped into provide posthumous accreditation to the Hinduatva agenda.
Denigrating Mahatma Gandhi has been a long standing RSS tactic.
Ask not why the Brits and Indian Media project Ganghi’s achievements, ask why the RSS wants to diminish his achievements.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:34 am
C’mon uncle, you do end up barking at the wrong tree !! Ab RSS ki kahani purani ho gayi hai. See their work during disasters and then see what admirable social work they do.
Just a day back you were happy with the idea of giving charity to Jamaat and LeT even though they used disasters for discriminating against religious minorities and also as an occasion for conversion of religion.
I think you need to remember that RSS is one organisation, despite its flaws, which talks about INDIA and not about aligning with a foreign power. Shamefully in comaprison.
—> Many Muslim organisations (not all ) talked about being subversient to the the Arabic Islam. And of Pan Islamism being more important thant the country.
—- The COmmunist have an inferiority complex as compared to the CHInese and the global communists earlier
—- The White man bum lickers would be willing to sell their ABC ( Ar_ _ BUM & C- – - – ) to please the gora
Sadly a SMALL section of the Sikhs did talk about breaking India during the Khalistan movement.
IN CONTRAST the RSS only talks about strenghtening India.
And that is the difference.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:50 am
I shall not dignify this absurdity with any meaningful response.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:04 am
Because you dont have a meaningful response to this obvious truth !!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Quite funny. Ravi you should respond…
Vijay has raised a pertinent issue
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:58 am
How else will they “attain” credibility? They have none in their stable, who stood up against the British and truly be hailed as one among thousands of freedom fighters. Not one it seems. Seriously, would like to know if there were any?
If they had their way completely – they would also appropriate others like Gokhale, Vivekanand, Ram Mohan Roy and many more from the rest of the country – the only qualifying yardstick 1) not belonging to Mahatma Gandhi and Nehru parivars or 2) not from the minority communities.
Sardar Patel. First it was Advani (Lauh Purush) and then Modi (ChhoTe Sardaar). Ludicrous indeed. Wonder who will be next to label himself as Mini Sardaar!
Rewriting history (we have seen Dr. Rajaram’s manufacturing materials as per specifications set out by the RSS here in the last 24 hours or so) to suit its agenda has been going on since its inception. They must be daft to think that the rest of the population is daft like them.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Why are you doing “what ifs’?
Has RSS ever disowned Mahathma Gandhi as the father of the nation?
They disagreed on his policies; blame him on partition (which many do). Yes, an RSS man killed Him, that does not make the RSS disowning Mahathmaji as the father of the nation.
We all should be glad that it was a Nathuram who killed Mahathmaji, and not an Abdullah – I wonder what history would have been if it was an Abdullah – it is quite possible and highly probable that I would not be in this world to write this.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:38 am
he will now ask you whether you are a Hindu in the guise of a Muslim! A while ago, for opposing him, he called Gopi Modi in disguise!!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Yes, Shoeb, I have been wanting to ask the question since 1916, but kept forgetting to do so I am really really “grateful” to BVS for reminding me, after nearly a century.
Here goes – are you …………….. ? (TIC).
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Here is a small litmus test. You should get an answer to your question.
Let B V Shenoy, being a staunch RSS supporter, declare on this blog that he considers Mahatma Gandhi as the father of the nation.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Let’s see if he does.
He has already professed that his guru golimarkar is that father of our nation.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
for you, now Gen Pasha is the father of your nation, which, we all know, jihadi!
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
My nation is your nation, so if Gen Pasha is the father of my nation, then so is he of yours.
You crypto facsict Sanghi saffron terrorist.
Is the लँगोट extra tight today.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
your litmus paper is going to turn neutral, because, your challenge is a no brainer, like you.I am sorry to disappoint you by saying that like millions-in fact like a billion people, I respect Mahtma Gandhi as the father of the nation. I take this opportunity to inform all my fellow bloggers here that I, as a four year old, was present when Gandhiji’s ashes (a small pinch of it as a token) were immersed in the river in my native place. .
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Well done. I was not challenging you and I am not disappointed at all. I applaud you. That probably answers Shoeb’s question and is free to draw his own conclusions, as I will.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Yes, you are right, if it was an Abdullah, all hell would have broken loose.
To prevent any rumour mongering (enough trouble makers around and we know who) and creating an uncontrollable situation, after his assassination, the following announcement was made on the radio
” Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated in New Delhi at twenty minutes past five this afternoon. His assassin was a Hindu”.
The slaughter had been avoided.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Hamara neta kaisa ho,
Rahul baba jaisa ho
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
हमारा नेता वोह ही होगा
जो बड़ी मूछ वाले का कहा माने
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:48 am
As usual, you bring RSS into any discussion, denigrate a group of people; fortunately you have not painted an Armageddon of how the future will be, which you usually do.
RajeevS had his own point for Netaji. RajeevS has consistently said he is not speaking for any religion or any group; he has castigated BJP and Modi many times.
By you bringing in Hindu Right’s contributions or lack of contributions, you are playing with your usual game – now somebody is going to bring the treachery of Muslims, Jinnah’s original sin, the razings of Gazani, the annexures of Aurangazeb, and the terrorism of today.
What was your reason/motivation to bring RSS/Gowalker etc into this discussion?
RajeevS “nominated” Netaji– to some extent understandable…
you are “denominating” people whom nobody considers as the father of nation from “the fatherhood of nation”?????
You nominate somebody else if you think that leader is more qualified and deserving and provide the reasons and arguments as RajeevS has done.
Denominating somebody who is nobody is like the proof of destruction of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How can one give a proof of a negative?
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:52 am
I thought we have alreadu established that the two of us do not live in the same universe.
I am happy where I am.
However, a detailed response to your inane questions is provided by Manhoar as well as me.
Careful Ravi, lets not denigrate Veer Savarkar, Golwalkar and Hegdewar so quick- along with Gandhi and Netaji, they complete the range of Indian Independence. They also represent the anguish of the hindus and sikhs who had taken the hit of ‘foreign’ colonisers and invaders for a thousnd years.
The congerss neglected that anguished voice, and the result was Advani, who sadly lit a fire he could not put out.
The country neglected to hear the screams of thousands killed in bomb blasts and those expelled from Kashmir, and the result was a mutant- Col Purohit.
Rest in peace Savarkar. Forgetting Nathuram and co, I find it fascinating that a group of Marathi brahmins had enough guts to shake the system while the brainwashed commies of Bengal proved such traitors during the independence struggle.
Indian history- fascinating, sad, brutal
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:47 am
I beleive that we stand poles apart on this issue.
Detailed response later.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:54 am
In fact this is what Savarkar and co were most scared of. History has proved them right-
Faryal Bhatti, a Christian eighth-grader erroneously misspelt a word in an Urdu exam while answering a question on a poem written in praise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). She was thrashed.
According to the school administration and religious leaders, the error is ‘serious’ enough to fall within the realm of blasphemy,
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:24 am
THIS IS SAVARKAR , PANDIT MISHRA’S FELLOW CASTE AND IDOL
savarkar was member of India House and wrote many articles against British rule in India. when he was jailed for his inflammatory articles, he pleaded in writing for clemency in which he renounced revolutionary activities. he was pardoned and thereafter he never supported freedom struggle. He associated himself only with Hidutva writings upholding Brahminism, varna system and vedic ritual
A scholar par excellence, he enriched the Marathi language and reformed it. As an ardent follower of Shivaji, Savarkar wanted to die in action. Finding this the only way out, HE WROTE SIX LETTERS TO THE BRITISH PLEADING FOR RELEASE. All his requests were rejected outright.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:13 am
THE MASK HAS SLIPPED, the pandit snake is out of the hole
THIS IS HIS FELLOW BRAMHIN GODSE AND HOW HIS ACT WAS PERCEIVED BY REST OF INDIA.
Execution of Godse and Apte
Differing accounts exist about the last moments of Nathuram Godse and Narayan Apte. According to some accounts, GODSE IS SAID TO HAVE PANICKED BEFORE THE HANGING with Apte being calm.
Violent incidents took place in Pune city, the hometown of Nathuram Godse, the assassin. Violent incidents occurred in other parts of India as well.
Violence against Brahmins
The Maharashtrian Brahmin community was specifically targeted after it was known that the majority of the assassins were Chitpavan Brahmins. Many innocent Brahmins had faced the problems during this assassination in the Maharashtra state.
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:36 am
I found your comment absolutely fascinating:
Rest in peace Savarkar. Forgetting Nathuram and co, I find it fascinating that a group of Marathi brahmins had enough guts to shake the system while the brainwashed commies of Bengal proved such traitors during the independence struggle.
Indian history- fascinating, sad, brutal
If you can name some of those brainwashed commies of Bengal who performed traitorous acts (some details would be welcome too) during the freedom struggle, I would be grateful.
I promise I will not bore everyone here by reproducing the “love letters” from prison written by Savarkar- as you yourself say, RIP Savarkar.
since you mention Veer Savarkar, Golwalkar and Hegdewar in the same breath as that of Gandhi and Bose, could you care to enumerate what Hedgewar and Golwalkar have ever done for India’s freedom struggle? Your comments will be eagerly anticipated.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:57 am
My complaint against the Commies would be the ditch they gave to India in 1942, where they said that we should stop our freedom struggle and help the British in their war effort as Communists International was a bigg–gg –ger ideal…
Ditto in 1962, when they said that the Chinese forces are coming to liberate us…. from capitalism
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
1942 and 1962 were different situations and different reasonings- will discuss later.
I actually am more familiar with 1942 situation; not so much about the 1962
Mohan Bhagwat Syndrome by Proxy
Arun Shourie (the BJP polemicist) when asked about Hinduatva is supposed to have said, the current RSS glitterati is modernising the concept of Hinduatva. It is shaving off all the Sarvarkar type of hard-line conservative Hindu religious meaning from it and is grafting a NEW more inclusive and nationalistic meaning instead. The brand logo remains the same, but the brand values are being made more palatable.
So at first, a number of offensive paragraphs were disassociated from its author – Sarvarkar – so that the author can be retained but some of his poisonous views can be ditched. The RSS did just that.
Gnadhi was no fool. Long before the independence he had realised that TRADIONAL HINDU VALUES (Caste System, Unsociability), if they remained even partially practiced in India they will hold India back. However, he was also not blind to the fact that Hinduism is the cornerstone of India. He too kept the Hindu vocabulary in tact, but bit by bit changed their meanings as well as rituals associated with them. In my view he not only hugely freed us from the Brits, he also freed us from some of the ancient religious practices. Thank you Mahatma.
The RSS has long been trying to neutralise the Gandhi effect. This started in his lifetime and is continuing now, even here in this humble blog. Let us not forget that the RSS was in the frame for the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi. Nathu Ram Godse, had been a member of both the Hindu Mahasabha and the RSS.
It is a universally accepted tactic, which is practiced by subversive organisations; firstly do not keep a membership register, secondly publicly distance the organisation from any over enthusiastic individual, such as Nathu Ram Godse. Privately nurture such a priceless asset, by secretly funding him shaping and encouraging him to assassinate. That is what the RSS did with Nathu Ram Godse. Not satisfied at killing Gandhi, now they want to kill his reputation too.
The above tactic is very widely practiced by the ISI and its associates.
My enemy’s enemy is my friend, as a tactic will take you so far and no farther. It is certainly not the kind of practice upon which a Nation can be built. Current example of this can be found in the Taliban. At first the US funded, trained, and supported the ideology, because it believed that their enemy’s enemy was their friend. Ask them the same question now and you will surely get a different response. Likewise, Subhash Chandra Bose’s tactic to befriend Germany, and Japan, against the British would NOT have won us the freedom and even if it did, it would not have laid good foundations for our Nation.
Nostalgia is good, but neuralgia is bad. Enjoy our national heroes, and leave their reputations as they are.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Where did you get the info that RSS “secretly funded him, and encouraged him to assassinate” (“Him” being Nathuram Godse)?
Although in a paragraph above this you state the truth that “Nathuram HAD BEEN a member of RSS”
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:30 am
this ‘info’ is included in chaper 7 para 3 of the latest edition of the ISI manual for creating chaos, anarchy, subversion, sabotage and terror, which this jihadi is required to always quote in this blog.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:56 am
AFAIK, the RSS is a hydra-headed organisation (should one say monster) and most of us do not how many organisations it has spawned, what they do and on the surface may not have a direct link with the parent body. A lot of secrecy surrounds its network – we may be aware of the BJP.VHP, BD and some others. Much of the “good work” they do like helping / assisting in times of calamities (laudable in its own right) is to create a smoke screen for its sinister agenda.
It is very difficult to establish such connections – when somebody gets caught in some misdeed – the RSS is quick to distance itself from the person(s) and the organisation(s),as they did in case of Nathuram Godse and others.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Japanese and germans LOST THE WAR , WON THE PEACE(became ECONOMIC SUPERPOWERS, WHILE BRITAIN INTERMINABLE DECLINE)
GANDHI DID GREATEST DISSERVICE TO THE LOWER CASTES BY LUMPING THEM IN A BOX CALLED HARIJANS
He never said anything about ABOLISHMENT OF CASTE.
IN FACT HE WAS A FULL PAID UP MEMBER OF VARNASHRAM AND CASTE BASED SOCIETY AND ITS BIGGEST VOTARY
This is his magnum opus
My Varnashrama Dharma
by Mahatma Gandhi,
And, the gandhi who publicly announced that caste system should be
preserved and it has scientific meaning is the man among
hindus, who has been fradulently and clandestinly kept on the top of hindu
system, as gandhi adored and worshiped the varnashrama to the fullest
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:15 am
Your description of Arun Shourie as the BJP polemicist is needless.
It adds no value to your argument and straitjackets a multi-faceted personality in addition to being a learned (and this is rare), honest and courageous man.
BTW, I am sure you have proof of RSS secretly funding, encouraging and priming Nathuram Godse to assassinate Gandhi? Care to share? Or, was it too much beer with the Sunday lunch?
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:24 am
I stand by my comment.
Arun Shourie is a good journalistic writer with an axe to grind. He lacks balance. The fact the axe he is grinding is of your liking, so you find him more acceptable than I do.
That defines who you and I are.
I suggest that you research about your social club yourself.
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Don’t we all? Have an axe to grind, I mean?
I see that you have not read him; read him, seriously. He does his research, is razor sharp and intellectually honest- at least to himself.
Only an upright man would at this stage of his life, seek to gently disengage from his party.
I assure you I do my research- so, I have a much less alarmist view of the RSS than you do even if I do not accept Hdgewar/ Golwalkar (or Savarkar- well, perhaps just a little) as freedom fighters of any significance.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
I do not doubt his intellect.
I do not doubt that he is sharp.
I do not doubt that though born a Hindu, his personal tragedy made him look deeply into his birth religion, not finding the answers he sought, in the end he settled for seeking solace in Buddhism.
I have no doubt that he endorses, a religion based reactionary party with a predilection towards violent fascist ideology.
What I doubt is his impartiality and balance.
He is an investigative journalist by training and writes like one. His focus is writing a good story, imbued with absolute certainties and solid convictions, the hallmarks of a believer rather than a doubting and open academic.
In the BJP team he towers above the rest who collectively are little more than dross.
When in doubt, organise a Rath Yatra, precipitate a communal incident and frighten the electorate into voting for the RSS.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Here is your starter for 10.
I know how much you like Outlook.
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:54 am
I still think it was too much beer with the Sunday lunch; wait, have you started spiking it with whiskey on the sly? Bad boy!
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:18 am
“It is a universally accepted tactic, which is practiced by subversive organisations; firstly do not keep a membership register, secondly publicly distance the organisation from any over enthusiastic individual…”
Coming from a jihadi, this has a ring of authenticity about it.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:35 am
I accept this endorsement from a Rioting Hindu Fundo
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Oh, and BTW
since I do not spare even Gods from active scrutiny; why spare “national heroes”?
I am not ever questioning your right to speak ill of any one; living or dead- so long as you have a credible and articulated point of view. So, I or anyone here have every right to examine Gandhi, Nehru, Bose, Patel, Azad, Tilak, Mukherjee, Sai Baba..
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:34 am
But of course.
So allow me to exercise that very right to criticise your right wing Hindu heroes.
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:39 am
when did I ever deny you the right?
All I ask (and I saw Shoeb plead for elsewhere) is that you do so in context of the argument and the thread.
Who will resign/be forced to resign first?
Will it be Chidambaram or Pranab?
Is Pranab creating problem for Rajmata?
He always wanted to be the PM- that was his life’s ambition. Many may not know– He was a “young Turk” with Chandrasekhar etc during Indira’s days.
Is this Pranab’ revenge to force something? Bring something to the doorsteps of Rajmata; MMS is forced to resign, and he being number 2 becomes the PM????? .
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Does it really matter who goes first and who follows suit?
As things stand all three, PM, FM and HM are BJP’s cannon fodder.
But, I feel, MMS should first take the plunge,taking responsibility for ruining his own and his government’s credibility. He also owes the nation an apology for giving clean chits to Raja and now Chidambaram.
~~ AS CONGRESS COLLAPSES, trolls shout out “rape rape… RSS RSS !! ~~~
In the naked lust for power… an all consuming HAWAS for grabbing the PM’s seat a great game is being played.
Digvinash and Gaffe Prone Sancho panza alias Amul Baba, have targetted the most able member of the UPA– P Chidambaram. His claims to the seat are over.
Pranabda would be over soon– since he will be accused of fomenting dissent.
Sonia Mummy will soon announce a democratic choice (COngressi style democracy ! )
Digvinash as PM and Fagge Prone Amul Baba as Party president.
To take the public’s eyes from this gory tamasha of hawas and lust for power, the COngressis are shouting rape rape, RSS RSS. Even on this blog one Mr Ravi who claims to be and Indian in UK, but talks like a Pakistani from Muridke has not mentioned anything about LeT, Jaish, terror attacks, etc etc.
Yet he goes out of the way to castigate and insult the RSS which may be just an old fashioned nationalist organisation….
Meanwhile all Indians should think of the future and boot the dynasts out with a solid kick in the rear….
And deport Digviash to Muridke…
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:47 am
I think Pranab will last till UPA-II lasts.. as was shown during the Anna Hazare episode, only he knows the art of real-politik.
Pranab is unlikely to ever make PM; there was a lot of talk of his wanting to be President when RahulG becomes PM; as he did not want to be reporting to him.
Aisa hee chalega..
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 11:53 am
Now give me one reason why he has practically destroyed Chidambaram’s ambition of rising further…
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Ok Vijay, you and me may not give Pranabda a chance of becoming PM but the man himself may be a tad more ambitious!
Also, when Pranab dropped some loud hints through the IToday interview (just as the UPAII came to power)about wanting to bring his “active” political career to an end after this government’s term ends, he had in mind 2 things
1. This government will last till the end of its term
2. The next election will bring Congress back to power and Rahul will be PM (who he did not want to have to report to)
But, now, I think he senses
1. UPA2 may not last its full term
2. The next PM may not be RG; because his task will be too tough- on the governance front as well as having to carry the party to power in the next elections.
So, Pranabda senses he is close to a lifetime ambition- and is busy eliminating rivals.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
I think Pranab Mukherji has done a great DiSservicce to himself and to his party. We all respected him for being a senior statesman.
Now he has started looking like a petty manipulater.
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I am not a Pranab fanboy; but, I think he handled the Hazare situation on behalf of the government well.
And why petty manipulator? Manipulator; perhaps- though isn;t that a virtue in politics? But petty? With a PM’ship as a prize? C’mon! No manipulation is petty enough.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:18 am
Well Pranab Babu will first sink the ship… then become the captain…
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Pranab Mukherji has held a press conference in New York to tell the newsmen that he didn’t rush to meet the PM, but just casually came to say hello.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
The whole of UPA is collpasing. I dont know why they are doing this. have thye sensed that 2014 is going to be a resounding loss?
Mr Honest, that is Manmohan Singh must be rueing the day when he appointed a CAG who has given rather spurious calculations to create huge amounts of losses.
Though I am happy that there will be change of government now.
Shenoy, do you think this will fall now or after the elections?
Er…. Error. Wanted to write Gaffe Prone… but wrote fagge prone..
Gopi, Mohan, Shoeb,
Here is a sample of the arguments against Modi by one congressie troll here on this blog:
“As he has chosen not to express any remorse and apologise for his failure to protect the lives of innocent people under his tutelage then, that is why he is stuck in Gujarat”
By this argument, where do Jayalalithaa, Naveen Patnaik and Jyoti Basu stand?
In 1996, the PM’s gaddi came to Chandrababu Naidu, without even his seeking it and he declined the offer, saying that he has work to do in Andhra.
Similarly, Jyoti Basu too had PMship in his lap, but the party forbade him from taking up the post, though he himself was inclined to take up the job.
Ashish, Vijay and others- SAVARKAR””””””’
Veer Savarkar’s militancy is like Azaad, Bhagat Singh, nanha shahid Khudiram Bose, Netaji- it the anguish and rage of a vanquished people. In the end, in the totality of contribution towards independence, their contribution may have been mild- but they live on in the ballads sung to the braves and in my heart.
Someone dared- khub ladi mardaani woh to Jhansi wali Rani this- I get goosebumps writring this.
Savarkar’s apologetic letter from prison where he saw decades of incarceration, is a sensible act. No sense dying of TB in Kaala Paani. I would have done the same.
Dont denigrate our braves, Ashish, we dont have many. Centuries of slavery has made us effete, as can be seen on this blog as well where foreign worship is an art form, for a few !!!!!!!
Dr Mishra Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
indian commie traitors”””””””
Ashish- they let us down in 1942, 1962 and even during the Naxal phase. Worshipping a venal ‘foreign’ God. Vijay has already reprted this. In any other country, they would have been shot for treason for siding with the Chinese who grabbed our land and killed our men.
Sadly, the spirit of the commie b*sttards lived on in JNU last year when they celebrated the massacre of the 72 policemen in Dantewada by Maoists
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
I would just like to point out that you used the phrase “brainwashed commies of Bengal “.
You don’t escape so easily; I see your attempting to wriggle out of a bad situation by saying Indian commie traitors.. we all know our history- explain why you said brainwashed commies of Bengal.
As you have seen, I do not abuse. But, mindless tripe with racial overtones gets my gall. I will await your unqualified apology.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Why do I have this feeling that you may have a long wait for what you really want.
Waffle has already arrived.
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 6:16 am
I did study a lot of history (and economics)- in post-graduation – and funnily from hardcore leftist faculty- many of them ex-JNU and Cambridge (many of them interanationally revered names).
I owe a lot to them- they taught us analysis and if we ever used the same tools on them, they gave us extra credit! I respect them; they were true savants.
I also have a very close relative who is a history prof in a central university- and is a staunch saffron flag flier. So, what Dr Mishra can tell me on Savarkar I have heard that and much more, already.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
You may feel such acute shortage of Heroes in India, that you are willing to promote Villains as heroes.
I hope you do not mind if I do not join you in this revisionary clap trap.
I can not accept Sarvarkar as a NATIONAL hero, he may be a hero to Conservative Fundamentalist Hindus, to everyone else he is a Hitler admiring crypto fascist.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Savarkar was fighting for a united INdia like Patel, Maulana Azad and Bhagat SIngh. Jinnah and Mulsim League were for dividing india and not so much for the freedom struggle.
It is obvious who the hero is..
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Of course it is.
This would be a point if I were saying that Jinnah or the Muslim Leagues are heros.
Now I do not remember ever saying that.
But then again when have facts dictated what you think.
It would really be sad if they ever did.
At the worst you could say that the RSS are misguided patriots. However given that every religious faction in INdia has a political face– how can you fault the Hindus from having one?
I think part and most of the reason for the growing support for RSS can be traced to this. The more you shout, we should vote for the COngress and insult the RSS, the more fans of RSS you create. Because the Congress has no problems with Tying up with the Muslims league yet finds fault with RSS.
Similarly the Akalis are basically a Sikh Party, the National Conference and the PDP only project Muslims. In contrast the RSS is comparitvely and quiet liberal. It talks about India.
Ravi Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Not sure if I understood your point.
However, I will do my best to respond.
Very happy for RSS to be a forceful face of the Hindu religion, much in the same way as the Aklai Dal and the Muslim League are representing the interests of their respective communities. Both these organisations are OPEN – as far as I know – but the RSS is secretive and much of its work is done behind closed doors and with only vetted members present.
The problem is that the RSS is expansionist and has national ambitions. Nothing wrong with that, let them fight the elections and should they win, then happy for them to rule.
However, that is not what they do. They create front organisations which they then control with ruthless efficiency. That corrupts the democratic process.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Savarkar contd- EDUCATION FOR ASHISH
1. Why did India get ruled for so long? DISUNITY
Savarkar’s first step was to say- Sikhs, Hindus , Jains and Budhists- all one.
2. He had a reformist side to him too- hated the oppressive elements of caste and based his reforms on- his words- atheism, humanism, rationalism, pragmatism
3. He may have coined the term India’s first war of Independence regarding 1857 and wrote a book on it. Madam Bhikaji Cama was his lifelong supporter.
Ashish- you cannot measure or quantify courage. Savarkar’s story is haunting- I am glad the Airport in Andaman is named after him. Just for that I have planned one of my future scuba diving trips there and I shall definitely visit his cell.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
EDUCATON FOR SNAKE MISHRA
THIS IS SAVARKAR , PANDIT MISHRA’S FELLOW CASTE AND IDOL
savarkar was member of India House and wrote many articles against British rule in India. when he was jailed for his inflammatory articles, he pleaded in writing for clemency in which he renounced revolutionary activities. he was pardoned and thereafter he never supported freedom struggle. He associated himself only with Hidutva writings upholding Brahminism, varna system and vedic ritual
AshishC Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
education never ceases for me; as amazement.
You used Savarkar (along with Hedgewar and Golwalkar) as figures – of the Indian Freedom struggle.
Social reformers/ organisers… okay, maybe. Care to let me have the answer to my original question- what was their contribution to the Indian Freedom Struggle?
Also, why did you find it necessary to juxtapose the 3 “Maharashtrian brahmins” with “brainwashed commies of Bengal” while putting the said brahmins on the same pedestal as Gandhi and Bose?
History is not mythology- or myth making.
A GENETIC TRAIT ANALYSIS OF BJP , FIRST ABOUT ITS GRAND FATHER HINDU MAHASABHA
The Mahasabha promoted the principles of Hindutva, a Hindu nationalist ideology developed by its pre-eminent leader Vinayak Damodar Savarkar.the Mahasabha identified India as “Hindu Rashtra” (Hindu Nation). Although it broadly supported the Indian National Congress in its efforts to attain national independence, it criticised the Congress commitment to non-violence, civil disobedience, secularism and its efforts to integrate Muslims and hold dialogue with the separatist Muslim League party, which the Mahasabha deemed to be appeasement.
Although it remained a relatively small political party, the Mahasabha’s members at various times included pre-eminent Indian political leaders such as Madan Mohan Malaviya, founder of the Benaras Hindu University; Dr. K. B. Hedgewar, founder of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the former chief minister of the Central Provinces and Berar; Syama Prasad Mookerjee of Bengal, who served as Central Minister in Nehru’s cabinet
The BJS was started by Syama Prasad Mookerjee on 21 October 1951 at Delhi in consultation with the RSS. The symbol of the party in Indian elections was an oil-lamp. In 1952 general elections to the Parliament of India, Bharatiya Jana Sangh had won three seats; Mookerjee being one of the winning candidates
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
I still feel u have a funny name. Naming urself after a road…well in case u r darney himself, then it is different. Anyway nice background you gave of the aMahasabha
Mittal welcome to blog, vaary addictive.
Mishraji, you have stuck your neck out and touched on 2 controversial topics ==
No aid to Pakistan
Veer Savarkars heroism
The debate is very cutting. When Shoeb said chillingly thnks God it was godse, not abdallah who killed gandhi, it touched my heart. Reminded me of Godhra.
This is debate. Dr Shan your disguise of darnley street did not survive one day. Just slither away, u r out of depth
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Yes … I am finding it a bit addictive…
Minor Miracles Major Movements
Today the last BULL was killed in Catalonia by a Matador, after the two put on a spectacular show of, until death Tango. The cows of Catalonia can breath a sigh of relief.
4000 miles east two legged heifers – of an entirely different variety – have reasons of their own to rejoice. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has announced that women in his country will not only be able to vote but will also be able to stand for Municipal elections.
These two minor miracles will create major movements in both conservative societies.
Just shows you how very advanced we are in India.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:19 am
You should be ashamed to put Saudi Arabia as an “example” or a poster child. First of all, it does not even qualify as a fr—ng country. And what do these women do with their voting? Can they say they want another king? For petes sake they cannot even drive.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:37 am
I bow to your superior stupidity
ASHISH, OUR FIRST CLASH- I like that. We could have been accused of running a mutual admiration club uptil now. In fact a certain frequently attacked blogger has accused us of membership of ‘internet brahmin club’.
Now to business.
1. I used artistic license to juxtapose 2 different groups to dramatic effect. I did say a 1000 year of slavery had made many Indians effete, so it was nice to see a group of Marathi brahmins shed their academia and take up arms.
2. I do have contempt for the traitorous chracter of commies from India- and yes, most were bengali- who opposed 1942, 1962 and throughout the naxal phase. I did take in the modern JNU types celebrating Dantewada massacre.
3. No where did I say that in himself Veer was as effective as the mahatma, I did include Netaji, Jhansi rani, Khudiram Bose, Azaad , Bhagat Singh- collectively in my small band of heroes who thrilled us in their own way. Scroll bak to see my comments.
did i answer all yr questions. If so, I retire to my glass of wine and drink a toast to Veer Savarkar whose story is both tragic and heroic.
Dr Mishra Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
It also doubles my intention to plan my next annual diving trip to Andaman. I shall feel pleasure in walking thru Veer Savarkar airport and shall pay my respects to his cell where he was impriosoned for 10 years.
Another thing- I attend gatherings of a group of Marathi doctors here in Yorkshire. They once held a poetry gathering- Veer’s poetry was recited and was translated for my benefit. My interest in his story ges back to that time- his poetry stirs your blood.
Oh and another thing, my marathi friends told me that Veer was willing to accept hindi as a national language, despite being a marathi. He believed in it because it was the only regional language with the largest circulation.
There is a lot you dont know about this anguished soul Ashish, our history and mythology has too many Karnas
Dr Mishra Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
In AIIMS hostels, each floor has a ‘guest room’. This was used by us to accommodate our relatives who would come for treatment to AIIMS.
Since our union leaders were very militant and had links with CPI (ML) they used to rent these guest rooms whenever the ‘cadres’ came a visiting from Bengal for rallies etc.
Had many a late night conversation with these commies. Many were very sweet naive innocent students who would quite cheerfully tell me that when the revolution came I would be killed because of ‘annihilation of class enemies’.
But maybe 30% were vicious thugs and brainwashed. Their heroes were Chinese and or Russians, every aspect of their thinking seemed to be directed by the orders they recd from HQ
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
COL PUROHIT and Pragya Thakur ALSO RECEIVED INSTRUCTION FROM HEADQUARTERS , that is ABHINAV BHARAT
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 6:03 am
pre-independence communists in India had virtually no Bengalis in their ranks, especially those who “betrayed our freedom struggle” in 1942.
Please name a front-ranking leader of the communists pre-independence who was a Bengali and who was part of the 1942 decision to oppose the Quit India Movement.
By the way,
since I have seen a lot of stray comments about JNU (I have been guilty of it myself), may I confess something? Some of my best loved, most erudite and true “teachers” can be said to be products of that institution. This includes the much reviled History faculty as well as the Economics faculty.
I can even tell what school of history has taught you to badmouth the roles of Communists pre-independence- it is the Bipin Chandra school (popularly known as the Nationalist school) of history- popular in school and college textbooks.
It held that opposing the QIM was necessarily a betrayal of the country.
What if I told you that in 1940, the CPI had passed a resolution asking for a general strike and pay no tax and gave a call for armed rebellion for which all CPI members were expelled from Congress Socialist Party?
Study history, Dr Mishra.
The snake in pandit may shed its skin , but the venom is intact
Along with his fellow students and friends Savarkar formed a political outfit called Abhinav Bharat. (source wikipedia)
THIS IS THE SAME ABHINAV BHARAT , WHOSE ACTIVE MEMBERS ARE COL PUROHIT(BRAMHIN) NOW IN JAIL AWAITING TRIAL IN MALEGAON BLAST WHICH KILLED MUSLIMS ASSEMBLED FOR FRIDAY PRAYERS.
The communist are NOT ONLY FROM BENGAL if we are talking about 1940
The Communist Party of India (CPI) was founded on December 26, 1925, at an all-India conference held at Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh, in late December 1925 and early January 1926. Communists participated in the independence struggle and, as members of the
Congress Socialist Party, became a formidable presence on the socialist wing of the Indian National Congress. They were expelled from the Congress Socialist Party in March 1940, after allegations that the communists had disrupted party activities and were intent on coopting party organizations. Indeed, by the time the communists were expelled, they had gained control over the entire Congress Socialist Party units in what were to become the southern states of Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Andhra Pradesh. Communists remained members of the Indian National Congress although their support of the British war effort after the German invasion of the Soviet Union and their nationalist policy supporting the right of religious minorities to secede from India were diametrically opposed to Congress policies.
As of 1934, the main centres of activity of CPI were Bombay, Calcutta and Punjab. The party had also begun extending its activities to Madras. A group of Andhra and Tamil students, amongst them P. Sundarayya, were recruited to the CPI by Amir Hyder Khan.]
In July 1937, the first Kerala unit of CPI was founded at a clandestine meeting in Calicut. Five persons were present at the meeting, E.M.S. Namboodiripad, Krishna Pillai, N.C. Sekhar, K. Damodaran and S.V. Ghate. The first four were members of the CSP in Kerala. The latter, Ghate, was a CPI Central Committee member, who had arrived from Madras. Contacts between the CSP in Kerala and the CPI had begun in 1935, when P. Sundarayya (CC member of CPI, based in Madras at the time) met with EMS and Krishna Pillai. Sundarayya and Ghate visited Kerala at several times and met with the CSP leaders there. The contacts were facilitated through the national meetings of the Congress, CSP and All India Kisan Sabha.
n early fifties young communist leadership was uniting textile workers, bank employees and unorganized sector workers to ensure mass support in north India. National leaders like S A Dange, Chandra Rajeswara Rao and P K Vasudevan Nair were encouraging them and supporting the idea despite their differences on the execution of these plans. Firebrand Communist leaders like Homi F Dazi, Guru Radha Kishan, H L Parwana, Sarjoo Pandey, Darshan Singh Canadian and Avtaar Singh Malhotra were emerging between the masses and the working class in particular. This was the first leadership of communists that was very close to the masses and people consider them champions of the cause of the workers and the poor. In Delhi, May Day ( majdoor diwas or mai diwas) was organized at Chandni Chowk Ghantaghar in such a manner that demonstrates the unity between all the factions of working classes and ignite the passion for communist movement in the northern part of India.
Communist movement or CPI in particular emerged as a front runner after Guru Radha Kishan undertook a fast unto death for 24 days to promote the cause of textile workers in Delhi. Till than it was a public misconception that communists are the revolutionaries with arms in their hands and workers and their families were afraid to get associated with the communists but this act mobilize general public in the favor communist movement as a whole. During this period people with their families use to visit this ‘dharna sthal’ to encourage CPI cadre.
This model of selflessness for the society benefits worked for CPI far more than expected. This trend was followed by almost all other state units of party in hindi heartland. Communist Party related trade union AITUC became a prominent force to unite the workers in textile, municipal and unorganised sectors, the first labour union in unorganised sector was also emerged in the leadership of Comrade Guru Radha Kishan during this period in Delhi’s Sadar Bazaar area. This movement of mass polarisation of workers in the favour of CPI worked effectively in Delhi and paved the way for great success of CPI in the elections in working class dominated areas in Delhi. Comrade Gangadhar Adhikari and E.M.S. Namboodiripad applauded this brigade of dynamic comrades for their selfless approach and organisational capabilities. This brigade of firebrand communists gained more prominence when Telangana Hero Chandra Rajeswara Rao raised as General Secretary of Communist Party of India
GOEBBELS MISHRA IS SPREADING CANARD
The UPA govt. is in real turmoil. Helped by the electronic and the print media, it is just surviving. That was not expected from GOP party run govt. Everything looks to be in mess. I believe the spokespersons of congress party are just defending indensible situations. One of the spokespersons has already retired hurt after tendering a written apology to Anna Hazare. Even the congress party had not dreamt in their wildest dreams the mess that they find in. I believe the biggest blow to the UPA govt. was the moment when the CVC appointed directly by the PM of the country was made to go by an order of the apex cpourt. The PM should have taken a moral responsibility but then he also behaved like a hardened politician who is not bothered for having made a wrong judgement.
Dr darnley shan, why you copy and paste from wikipedia, entire paragraphs and try and pass it as your own.
dr mishra may not know that commmunists of bengal were actually jailed for treason after 1962. They said it is not india china war, it is war of noble socialism against capitalism. The chinese asss lickers Dr shan, your grandfather maybe, used to put photos of mass murderer Mao on their dias st rallies.
Donkey dr shan talking nonsense allatime. His father liked chinese lingam and SHan likes gora lingam worship.
Anonymous Reply:September 25th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
What is the difference between balwinder and a donkey , the donkey has a tail.
Proven by the mindless blabber that he so IRRITATINGLY , and panditji’s **** sniffing balwinder keeps on posting.
Your great great grandfather HELPED THE BRITISH TO CRUSH THE SEPOY MUTINY , which your pandit master uses savarkar’s reference in calling it as india’s first independence movement.
Your COUSINS ARE THE GADDARS WHO KILLED INDIRA , WHOM THE INDIAN GOVT HAD TRUSTED TO PROTECT THE PM OF INDIA.
imagine such people in charge of protecting the security of nuclear installations.
YOUR BROTHER DR JAGJIT SINGH CHAUHAN , the terrorist along with all the BABBAR KHALSA TOOK ALL THE ORDERS FROM PAKISTAN TO DESTROY INDIA.
BHOOT KEY MUH MEY RAAM NAM
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:15 am
there is much that Dr Mishra does not know; including
- the nuances of the decision of the Communists in 1942 to not support the QIM
- the history of the 2 decades of the Communist movement leading to the 1942 decsion
He also falls into the trap of thinking whatever the Congress did or thought was necessarily for the larger benefit of the country.
He also casts an absolutely baseless slur on Bengali communists for the 1942 decision of the Communists to speak against the Quit India movement. I have been asking him for names of Bengali communists who betrayed the country in 1942; he is silent because he knows nought.
Okay, here’s the list of communists that the British released from prison in 1942; name a Bengali in this list.
B.T. Ranadive, R.S. Nimbkar, S.G. Patkar, S.S. Mirajkar, Sajjad Zaheer.
Criticize, by all means- but, with facts. Keep biased and unsubstantiated allegations to yourself.
You, and of course Dr Mishra need to understand the history of the freedom struggle post Gandhi’s arrival in India as that of not just a struggle to rid ourselves of the British rule but ALSO jockeying for pre-eminence in the power structure that will emerge post independence.
Congress was successful- it decimated all challenges
- from the Muslims
- from the Communists
- from Subhash Bose and all others who thought the path to freedom lay through an armed rebellion.
It was politics and Congress won.
By divide and rule, by blackmail, by acting as the umbrella of diverse aspirations.. nothing wrong- in politics and statecraft, the spoils go to the victors.
Congress has gone on to sponsor history writing that supports its version of what happened. So, any one who was non-Congress has been painted in unsympathetic colours.
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:18 am
Should I now be pointing to the surnames of B.T. Ranadive, R.S. Nimbkar, S.G. Patkar, S.S. Mirajkar, Sajjad Zaheer and count the number of Maharashtrians in this list? That would be a real cheap shot, would it not be?
Gandhi is respected because of his so-called spiritual superiority over others. But in last few years, we have come to know dark side of his character, namely-
1. When Kasturba was on deathbed in Agha Khan palace, Gandhi was writing romatic letters to Miraben, describing beauty of her body parts.
2. Just recently some letters have been unearthed that show his very close relationship with his jew partner.
3. He did not allow his son Harilal to go abroad and study law forgetting that he himself practiced law in South Africa.
Gandhi has been turned into some mythical figure who is beyond any weakness. Why did Gandhi not mention his dark side in ‘Experiment with Truth’?
I agree with many of his arguments but I refuse to accept him as some Mahatma or Prophet..We had enough of this prophet and avatar nonsense.
Netaji, Patel, Gandhi, Nehru etc. all were human with both positives and negatives and should be studied objectively. It is hindu mentality that makes everyone Mahatma..That’s why we have pir fakirs, mahatma on every nukkad.
I agree with like of Ravi that Right wingers especially from RSS played a very marginal or no role in freedom struggle except for may be Savarkar.
The Hindu right wingers were happy to be ruled by brits who had brought down privileged muslims (under muslim rule) to their level and provided hindus opportunity to march forward. The hindu right’s aim was to keep muslim power in check and they found allies in brits.
Lastly the role of muslims in our freedom struggle is also minimal. They just worked for creation of pakistan..and those mullahs who opposed partition, did not do it for love of India but because they thought that muslims will be divided in sub-continent thus weakening their position.
Congress was always concerned about power. Till 1931, all congress wanted was dominion status but not complete freedom. It was only after HSRA (Bhagat Singh and Azad) demanded completer freedom, Congress too fell in line. Even before freedom congress was contesting election and ruling in many states under brit direction. Same was true for muslim league. Even today congress can not think beyond power.
I find it very funny when terrorist minded people like Ravi use Gandhi and his ideology to tarnish hindus. The majority of muslims never ever respected Gandhi except for for few like Azad and KAG Khan. That’s the exact reason Gandhi never blackmailed muslims with any fast because he knew that they don’t care if he lived or died.
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 6:56 am
largely agree with your main thrust. However, I would not like to dwell overmuch on the personal trivia- as you say, every man has feet of clay; Mahatma, Netaji, Gurudev.. etc are our creation and we should grow up.
Just like Tagore’s alleged romances do not take away from the monumental contribution he made to art, poetry, essays and education; we can and should study Gandhi’s public persona dispassionately and rationally. There is much to like, much to admire and much to find fault with.
RSS may not have played any role in freedom struggle but it is nationalistic organization who wants to keep India ONE..however their ideological counterparts in muslim community are still working on dividing India further.
RSS and Indian Islamic groups are both dangerous to the secularism of this country but Islamic group have no competition when it comes to anti-national sentiments and activities.
Ravi may be part of such group and that’s why you see him mourning Osama and justifying Islamic violence on one side but when cornered by some hindu right wingers, he quotes Gandhi and calls RSS all sorts of name.
A Islamist can never truly believe in Gandhi and idea of India..He pretends to do so for vested interest.
You made a statement that RSS aided and abetted Nathuram Godse in the murder of Mahathma Gandhi. Where did you get that info from? Ashish also asked for this.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 3:34 am
There is no proof but muslims use this argument all the time.
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 6:50 am
you can’t question faith; especially if it is dogma.
As an aside, the original (French) name of Asterix’s dog is Idee Fixe’ .. how apt.
Ravi, just pulling your leg; not calling you a dog- I hope you know that.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:34 am
Have I been promoted from being Shan’s Kuttar, or as our upper middle calss Vijay says a Lap Dog’s Lap Dog.
As I said I am an orphan, so no izzat issue here.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:33 am
I suggest that you think about it.
The nature of such support is always very secretive, so if you are expecting me to provide some kind of proof then you are not likely to get it.
Even the trial notes that finally exonerated the RSS of complicity to Gandhi’s murder, suggested that there was a lack of evidence.
It did not give a clean chit, just suggested the full prosecution is not possible.
Just as many of the IRA murders and murders committed by other subversive organisations around the world. Chile, Libya, Italy, USA, Pakistan, South Africa, etc etc.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 10:12 am
That is a cop out. In that case you should have made a statement that RSS has murdered people. You singled out Mahathmaji; you attached RSS to his killing, as if they were out in the open for everybody to see, so clear. Nathuram Godse was killed by hanging; RSS was not found involved.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 10:27 am
No cop out.
RSS was in the frame for Mahtama’s murder.
There must be a reason for that
Suddenly there is a lot of discussion on RSS going on here.
KT Thomas, retd Supreme Court justice, mentioned recently that he is a church going Christian; and he does not find that in conflict with his admiration for RSS. He said he has been following them since 1979, and his regard for them only has increased with the passage of time.
He was wondering why should any Indian find problem with an organization committed to Indias welfare, Indian civilization…
A Chinese democracy, if it happens, will be more Confucian than Jeffersonian, freedom in Russia would look more Russian than free. So, also the Indian ethos.
RSS cannot be faulted if they believe that that the virtue of freedom is not that it makes you richer and more powerful but that it give you more time to understand what it means to be alive. Israeli Jews concept of freedom is also similarly different. Life’s, deaths’, invasions’ crucibles form ones own unique perspectives of freedom and how that freedom should be lived.
“Cultivate your garden” — that is what Voltaire recommended.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 8:30 am
This link should help.
After this and perhaps other material on the net, it is entirely up to you to reach your own conclusions on the RSS.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 8:56 am
Many thanks for this link.
I am keen to find out if you are able to pin point to the relevant areas.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Finally logged in.. Glad to note that the ISI Agent is active. They must have taught him how to hack all the blogs!
The latest from Pasha is that they will not touch Haquani network.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
One should read it in totality, but pay little more attention to excerpts from his book – We, or, Our Nationhood Defined.
AFAIK, the RSS have not disowned his philosophy – its raison d’etre, as of today.
I am starting a new thread as the display of replies keeps getting narrower.
;I think it is more like “fake it till you make it”.
Let me give you an example; Nehru takes the credit for giving us strong institutions, elections every five years, 3 branches of the state and so on..
we are still faking it; aren’t we? In the hope, that someday, collectively we shall make it.
So, when we grew up; in a house full of books stacked from floor to roof; you like books quite naturally. Similarly, if you even follow the rituals of elections, hopefully, someday, you will become democratic’.
Here I beg to differ,
1) Strengthening the democratic institutions is always work-in-progress,
2) For the first 17 years, Nehru did his best and was not alone to make our institutions stronger, but a major credit is due to him. There is no question of us ‘faking’ it. A lot of power is vested in the Prime Minister and subject to misuse, as we shall see below.
3) It was his daughter, Indira Gandhi (power corrupts, absolute power …………), who tried and almost succeeded in weakening them. Committed bureaucracy, judiciary, election commission, etc. to the political will. I also hold her responsible for starting the sycophancy culture in the Congress party. Loyalty became the predominating factor and that is what has been going on ever since. Arguably, the worst Prime Minister we have had, IMO.
4) Aren’t elections held with unfailing regularity? A big credit to T N Seshan for starting the cleaning out process (using the existing laws and powers) – they are much more fairer, almost violence free, less prone to manipulation. Vajpayee famously had said – “Seshan has put the fear of God in the politicians:
Of course, the world is full of show-offs – they do not go very far in the long run and soon become objects of derision. You do not have to necessarily display books to cultivate a love of books and reading. It can so, even if they are kept in the attic.
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 5:28 am
my description of my growing up was, at least a little, tongue in cheek. But, the underlying philosophy is that if you see your parents value reading, books (only gifts we ever got on our birthdays was books) – hopefully, the values get inculcated in your children. I have followed the same principles with our daughters, and it has turned out well. Anyway, leave that aside..
Again, when I say faking it- I mean that a lot of our democratic processes are big on rituals; yes we do have elections every 5 years but the quality of politicians that we get through the process keeps declining; the number of days they attend parliament or indeed the number of days the parliament is in session keeps declining and the polity gets increasingly polarised- in fact multi-polar and fractured. I am concerned at the rise of regional outfits and the fact that neither of the two main parties can come to power without their support- with results we have seen in UPA-II.
So, methinks that we did not mature enough as an Westminister style democracy- the institutions are in place without there being some of the benefits I would have liked to see- for instance a more cohesive idea of India, regional representation without there being fractiousness and so on.
Regarding your assessment of Indira Gandhi- largely agree (discount Deve Gowda and Charan Singh for being there for too little time to do lasting damage).
The other point on destruction of institutions-
When the Janata Party came to power, they did not learn the lessions from the Indira era- one of the first tasks they did was to dismiss all the Congress state governments where there was a Janata sweep. I remember my father, a die-hard CPM supporter, being happy- the spirit of vengeance permeated the air. But, I thought, even as a 13 year old, it was somehow wrong. And, as the JP and then the others who came to power later continued the policy of destablizing the state governments and using Governors as their cats paw, the situation has got steadily downhill.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 7:37 am
I have never said that our democracy is perfect, except in parts. Elections are no mere rituals, being the most important cog in the wheel. They are being conducted in the best possible manner. Isn’t our Election Commission today the envy of the world?
As I said it is always work-in-progress. The next step would be to get a better set of people (from among us, please note) into the legislatures. Let us see if we are able to achieve that in our lifetime. To do so, I feel, genuine inner party democracy will would one of the important factors – some undesirables will always manage to slip in though.
Dismissing state governments unilaterally at the whims of some misguided leaders is a distant possibility now. That loophole has been plugged. Didn’t Bharadwaj try his best to get rid of the BJP government in Karnataka?
The other area, which would help us to be a better democracy would be implementation of the exiting laws, our track record is really nothing to write home about. In spite of cursing our representatives at the drop of a hat, they have enacted some very fine laws and acts down the years – keeping in mind the great diversity across the country.
Earlier, there was only one national party with others being marginal players. The Congress Party meant something to everyone and perhaps was not able to attend to specific needs (partly on account of paucity of enough funds – remember we are comparatively a poor nation) of the various groups (states, castes, whatever, etc) – again given the diversity of our country. This resulted in the rise of the local leaders, whose vision was restricted to their interest groups – state specific, cast specific, religion specific, etc. Now there are one too many and the national party(s) are getting marginalised to some extent.
To give an example – I was in Madras some 15 years back and the people by and large referred to the Congress Party as the North Indian party. The BJP had yet to achieve critical mass, but would have been bracketed as such too). How does one deal with such mindset? Do the national parties in such situations stand any chance?
The question is how do the national level parties attend to the needs of a specific groups of people, without losing the national perspective and not being termed as biased?
Westminster has had a head start by miles and should not be used as yardstick, but as the goal.
PS: As the new blog by Vinod Sharma is scheduled for today, we will discuss the fall in the Congress Party’s fortunes in many states down the years in the new blog.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 10:36 am
As an older person I see no institutions or see institutions failing. Surprisingly, many younger (below 30) also see the same thing.
This wave is there in all countries; in some more, in some less.
Congress (also BJP) has failed miserably to be in step with the people. The rote that started in congress with Smt Indira Gandhi is now a full cancer, beyond redemption. I cannot even suggest a mutation.
BJP has an opportunity, if they are deft. Whatever anybody talks about RSS, there definitely is a new current of patriotism, belonging etc; much much more than when I was a youngster – mainly because of improved living standards, and widespread communication/media. The country is ready for BJP; but will BJP be ready?
So Jt Secy in PMO ,Ms Vini Mahajan may finally lose her job… Her fault…. Either she could have been more brazen like many of the bureaucrats serving this regime and not released that note , the RTI law notwithstanding, or she chose the wrong PM to serve in his Office. Pranab Mukerjea is now seeking to blame the controversy on the PMO for leaking priveledged documents and can only lead to the sacrificial goat to be found to be slaughtered.
So the culprits and the spin doctors of the Congress Party shall now work hard to divert the issue from the merits or the contents of the note, which brings home the guilt of the 2G loot on to Chidambaram and then to PM of India … to a bureaucratic misdemeanor .
Mr Vinod Sharma started this Post with ” The BJP needs a new Atal Bihari Vajpayee, not a Narendra Modi……”.
But we say “The Congress is in greater need of a new Lal Bahadur Shastri ….. and not a Manmohan Singh or a Sonia Gandhi or her Pappu …”
Dog Day Afternoon
As you know I have always regarded you as being very qualified and highly educated individual. I can not say the same about some of the other blogers who throng here. They seem to be highly qualified rather than educated.
Now I also know that you are a trained Historian and that you live in close proximity of Saffron Flag Waving eminent professors (I will pass on the obvious oxymoronic joke), so I hope you will be able to answer a very simple question of mine.
As you know that the Registrar General of this Blog and his wayward assistant have repeatedly certified that I am a Muslim.
Yet others, not satisfied with the ferocity of the original insult, have compounded it by classifying me as a DOG.
So the question is, are Muslim Dogs circumcised?
You may wonder why am I asking you, and opening myself for a heap load of further abuse in a public forum. Well the thing is that being a life-long beer guzzler that I am, my barrel is now so big that I am unable to see it for my-self.
Hence the question is posed to you, my learned friend.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 8:59 am
Ravi, kabhi kabhi kum bolna achha hota hai. No offence, ja aaj ek movie dekh ley
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 10:46 am
“Muslim Dogs” is like your RSS/Mahathma GAndhi murder connection.. You cannot find “Muslim Dogs”.. because Muslims dont keep dogs..in kerala they say it is “haram”..
(now between you, me, and the lamppost, many “advanced” families used to have, they even used to participate in kennel shows; but the number has gone down significantly)
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Were the dogs circumcised. The suspence is killing me.
As the radicalistaion of the Kerala Muslim community is well advanced, do they now have Pit Bulls rather than Poodles
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Dogs= Haram; no dogs per se — FATWA
will get killed by Aboobacker Muslaiyar Sunni group (who says they have the prophet’s hair; they are building the largest mosque in India in Calicut).
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Gopi are you calling me a harami
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Ah! Such profound questions; prefaced with sugar and honey! How I wish I spent more time than I do on this blog.
Let me however answer using parables- this will ensure that everyone here will be on my tail- with perhaps you leading the pack- circumcised or not, we will soon know.
One of the most loved authors of mine as I grew up was Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyaya- we shared a surname; but that was not the reason, you must believe me. Till today, very few could match his lucid delivery .. but, I digress.
One of his most celebrated novels was “Shrikanta”- in 4 volumes. In terms of literary merit- the first volume remains my favourite.
It describes early on a scene where an elder boy called Indranath and Shrikanta, a mere teenager, is out at midnight on a river cruise- just the two of them. They come across a dead body floating in the river. Indranath wants to do the “right thing” – light a small fire and touch it to the face of the body- as befits a “proper” Hindu way of disposing off the dead.
A small problem, as Shrikanta voices it: what is the “jaat” of the body? He reminds Indranath; they are high castes, after all.
Indranath then says, and I get emotional whenever I remember this line- “Morar ki aabar jaat hoye re?” Do the dead have any “jaat”?
Rememmber, this was written almost a hundred years back- how simple life is, if you think it is.
As for the dog,
as you would now guess, if you are dead- then no problem. You do not have a “jaat” and by extension a religion. So, you no longer need to hide behind your beer-gut.
But, since you are alive- this presents a problem. As a famous heroine in a Tagore short-story “proved she was not dead, by dying afresh”, you could perhaps retire your Ravi Avatar and become reborn as ISI Agent.
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Great response, loved every word of it.
Not because more than one read was necessary to tune into the spirit of your answer, just that selective perception had kicked in, and I read Ravi Aavtar as Ram Aavtar.
Rajeev, Manohar, Aashish,
Your last few posts are very interesting and have added to my knowledge.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
I too learn a lot from this blog. One has to just keep an open mind.
AshishC Reply:September 27th, 2011 at 9:13 am
you are too generous. But, thank you.
Blog burning now. Wah.
Mishraji your silence on role of bengali commies in 1942 is surprising.
But ashish there is total silence on your part about treason and wanton violence of bong commies, pl pardon my provoke, in 1962, in entire naxal phase, in tking electoral violence in bengal to gutter, and in not protecting india from bdeshi immigration.
Ashish maybe u were selectively splitting hairs cos of yr fathers CPM connexion, a bit of emotion, no disrespect
AshishC Reply:September 27th, 2011 at 9:20 am
I think you need to understand there are shades of Communists- literally hundreds. Communism is not a monolith- it has many adherents and of many hues.
Far be it from me to justify the Naxal killings, or the Maoist violence.
Also history is very fascinating- if you recall, S A Dange was a “nationalist” in 1962 and ended up supporting and justifying the emergency in 1975- a stigma that the CPI has never quite recovered from.
Kabhi dilli aao, gal kita.. vadi kahaniya ai
I think there is no shame in being called a dog. A dog is after all the most honourable and loyal creature. In various stages of life I have discovered that a dog gives you more love and friendship than any human being.
When I was a kid, my dog would invariably tail me all around…
When I was in college, in days of heartbreak and low academic perofrmance, my dog would sit on my feet…
And now I when I go home– my kids look for cash for thier fun and games… and my wife wants her cash and jewellery…
But my dog jumps on me, wagging his tail…
So dont underestiamte the importance of a dog who gives love.. wtihout asking anything in return…
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am
Thank you for confirming that I am a dog.
I notice your silence on what relgion is this dog.
Let me remind you the Veda story, where one of our gods walked all the way upto heaven and all the while was followed by a dog.
When the dog initially was not allowed in the heaven, he decided to turn back to return back to earth.
I am sure you know the rest of the story.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Now if you think I am going to badmouth any religion… well I never will. In fact I would advise you not to drag Dogs into the Communal – secualr divide. After all a dog is too intelligent a creature to fall into the trap of of our psuedo debates…
A Dog gives you uncondtional love… even if you kick it once a while…
As for your beer belly denying the sight of your manhood…
All I can say is stick to raw veggies for a year. And admire your manhood for ever after…
Ravi Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Much obliged for your saintly advise.
Karela Juice for me from now onwards.
Well, for all the “democratic principles” of Nehru, he dismissed the only State Govt held by an opposition party, the first communist ministry of EMS Namboodiripad in kerala.
He was quite undemocratic within the party; his socialist and fabian ways, and nothing else. What if Rajaji’s faction and its ideas of “free markets” was given a chance in late 50s?
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
The CIA had a role here. Moynihan revealed that it was quid pro quo for American aid.
Anonymous Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Gopi and others
As the new blog by VS is likely to uploaded any time now, we will carry forward many of the interesting threads (including this one) to the new one.
I guess I share some of your feelings about communists… as I was one in college. And my dad was one till the early eighties before he became a Congress supporter.
I guess to not to be a communist at 18 showed you had a hard heart.
And if you remained a communist after 21 … it showed a lack of a head !!
But polemics aside, I can give you a list of 100 on how the Bengal communists failed us. here is a sample
— They consistently opposed the liberalisation policies, even when the applauded China for liberalising and getting foreign capital. It was good for China… but never good for India.
— They danced on the streets of Calcutta when norht Korea did a nuclear test. But cried and protested when India conducted the same. Ditto when China did this.
— They supported China during 1962, dreaming that China is going to overthrow the capitalists.
— The ransacked the industries of Bengal to make it a failed state in terms of industry
Now these are 4 points. In case you want 96 more… ask me !
AshishC Reply:September 26th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
I questioned Dr Mishra on a specific and limited point; that being Bengali communists role in 1942. I have never (even in college) had any fascination for the communists’ economic ideology.
I am, as I had specifically said, not very familiar with the events in 1962; but, my facts are right on 1942.
I cant understand why BJP is always fighting and if they are fighting within themselves why the hell are they showing to media
Dear Ms.Anandan, I guess being “Singly Political” means being a Congressperson. I would take you much more seriously if you commented on Congress or the Gandhi family. You reserve all your analyses only for BJP & Shiv Sena, & sometimes for NCP.
Its likely that you may put down my remarks as being from another vitriolic BJP supporter. But I promise you it isn’t.
It doesn’t behove a journalist to be so blatantly one-sided, whereas I as as reader can be.
Does being “Singly Political” means being wedded to one party’s cause, in your case the Congress party.
I would take your role as a journalist much more seriously if you ever has anything bad to say about Congress or the Gandhi family. You seem to reserve all your analyses only for BJP & Shiv Sena, and once in while for the NCP.
This is not the remark of a vitriolic BJP follower, but that of a reader who expects some level of objectivity from our journalists.
Akul Reply:June 2nd, 2012 at 5:46 am
Well said. her mother told her a lot of good things. Why didnt she tell her to give up journalism. Its not her cup of tea. She is very very biased. Besides, she lacks the talent of a good journalist. Look at all her posts. She mostly cites people who are long dead. Also her narration is pretty mediocre.
So how much does Khaungrass exactly pay for such articles? Must be a lucrative job to sell your soul and mother land to the italian dynasty.
It’s all vote bank policy.Mulayam singh doesn’t want to miss any opportunity to appease his muslim voters.
I loved this post! Check out my blog on theatre http://everybodyplays.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/the-nautanki-st-7/
All this talk about freedom of speech is academic. You talk logic with some who is willing to engage in a logical debate. The real issue here is not about the boundaries of freedom of speech. The real issue is about controlling the masses. It is about ruling over the masses. Freedom of speech is the only “brahmastra” that the citizenry has which can prevent the rulers or the govt from becoming autocratic. And that is the reason why it is curtailed by the govt. All the talk about offending a person or a group of people, or religion is just a charade. The actual protected class here is the politician. Once you really give freedom of speech to the people, the corrupt political establishment itself is threatened. This is the bottom line. Religious or other feelings are mere pawns to further this goal. This explained in my blog titled “1951 – When India Lost Its Freedom, Yet Again!” on hanumant dot com
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:08 pm
once you really give freedom of speech to the people, the corrupt political establishment itself is threatened.
— ther are 100 of movies which depict politician, police, doctors, lawyers in very very bad light. there were many sting operations on them. modi is hounded day & night. so politician is not protected. but our english media is blinded by pseudo secularism of politician & join hands. people hv freedon of speech, i can write many things about politician & draw cartoons, but nothing about religion.
hanumant Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 2:59 pm
You point is valid but that is not what I am referring to. Criticizing politicians is not the only consequence of freedom of speech. The most far reaching consequence is that it makes people think. It causes people to awake from their ignorance. It is this consequence.that is the real threat to corrupt political establishment.
Free exchange of ideas, no matter how offensive they are, makes the people intellectually stronger, which results in an automatic weeding out of bad politicians.
hanumant Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 3:01 pm
>people hv freedon of speech, i can write many things about politician & draw cartoons, but nothing about religion
Try drawing a cartoon against leaders in power in Kolkata
I read in your paper that the SC actually said that they can punish an idea! And that the freedom of speech is restricted by people’s sentiments. If that is true, India’s Supreme Court is now open to ridicule in the worst way possible. Such thoughts can only exist in the most regressive societies, religious books and autocratic nations. No democratic nation can accept such nonsense.
These judges must be made to realise the horrendous error of their statement and issue a correction. This kind of talk is insulting to the nation and our constitution.
raj1 Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am
don’t blame judges, even they are living in this society,culture, environment, until these and people change, nothing will change. like typical indian, shift blame to judges.
religion is 1 big hurdle, until its crossed we cannot go anywhere. but then we are secular, and some religions hv more rights then others.
J. Jayalalitha’s demand that Kamal Haasan should sit down with Islamic groups and re-edit his movie, falls into this category. But there are precedents.
—- it was kamal who set this precedent. he had special show for muslim parties but after seeing the movie they went to state govt to ban the movie, not delete some part. so she said to work out a compromise, she didn’t demand.
(see how media has its own sickening agenda. )
didn’t m.f.hussain do that with his movie gajakamini,
(but psudo secluar media is silent about this, but hindu protest is highlighted.)
protect free expression. — also my life/work from being disrupted by these parties. for a youtube movie , usa embassy was attacked. so govt should hv 1 police for each citizen.
– media should remove its pseudo secular blinkers & report news not their views on news.
politicians to get away with offering this justification.
—- so , what do you want, a riot to erupt & then police to control it. so, say openly that congress & other pseudo secular parties to avoid this minority appeasement boldly if you can.
media wanted to create another modi in jayalalitha !!!!!! to sell & make money. see how many are still in this profession by writing about modi all these years.
American civil liberties union
— these are brave enough to call spade a spade, but our indian version is a completely screwed one, with minority appeasement. joined by media, english speaking so called liberal class.
why is liberal class silent with mamta banning salman rushdie & tasleema. you can be sure the american version of liberal would hv raised this issue. even you made a passing remark, and side stepped it. if modi hv done it, we would hv been bombarded, starting with latest news from IBN., reams of news papers from The Hindu, & TOI.
kamalahasan is liberal like pseduo secular politician. proclaim to understand muslim & islam, by attending few iftar prties & eating biriyani during ramzan.
he says his movie does not offend muslims, but muslims say they are offended as koranic verses misused. so much for his knowledge about islam, shows his movie to them & they want to ban it, not delete some scene.
i would like to get a reply from seculars like vir , if this happend
- goverment arrest rioters – few theaters burnt , people lost life, work, property
will liberals will shout innocent muslims targeted (or) justify their action because koran was insulted (or) kamal should not have insulted koran (or) blame govt for no/late action (or) blame intelligent department. (but if police do preventive arrest then you shout innocent muslim arrested & fight for their human right)
its liberals who are confused, but majority is clear about all these,
INDIA’S TRYST WITH MOBOCRACY
Even as our nation as a republic was basking in its self-glory for the sixty forth time in the national capital, its essence of nationhood was withering away elsewhere, in Amma’s own land. The irony and the contrast between the two could not have been starker. One celebrated the glory of the constitution and its practice through the state, the other denigrated the
constitution and mocked both, its practitioners and the state. Kamal’s multi crore magnum opus ‘Vishwaroopam’ was stopped right in its tracks before it could roll out on the screens for the public, because some chosen few lumpens felt the film violated their faith and the book. They threatened
backlash unless Kamal concedes and surrenders to their fatwas. The players
involved this time might be new, but the theme of the on going narrative is
frighteningly similar as they unravel in sequel to each other. From MF Hussain’s forced exile to Rushdie’s entry bans, from the outcry to ban ‘ fire’ to ‘Vishvaroopam’ the message is common, loud and clear- Intolerance. Ideas expressed through any form of art needs to pass the approval of the lowest denominator and arbiter of sensibility. Welcome to the new emerging India of the 21st century. The mobs have finally arrived. Not democracy, it is going to be the rule of mobocracy, here on.
The near absence of rule of law and the capitulation of the state to the moronic demands of fringe lunatics, rabble rousers and wild lumpens on the street has only further emboldened the latter to institutionalise their politics of coercion. Judiciary, the last bastion of hope for the citizen to seek redressal and justice also has now given in, exposing its impotence for rational interference to protect the victims of such mob rage. In case after case of such mob attacks on the works of arts literature or ideas, the pattern is similar, familiar and now predictable, thanks to the re assurance that the
state and the courts have provided to such mobs. Art and artists by their very
nature are most often the unwitting victims of these faceless, mindless brutes. It is because artists like Kamal offers some ‘idea’ through their works of creation after investing invaluable creative thoughts, efforts and money . The fringe mobs who denigrate such works have nothing to offer,nothing at stake,
except threats and destructions, demands and coercion for being sentimentally hurt by that ‘idea’. Thus, some rationally disconnected fragile sentiments claims its primacy and control over an ‘Idea’ borne out of intellect and creative thought process. Not some medieval age happenings, these are the modern day, contemporary India’s day to day events, actively aided and abetted by a defunct state as well as an unthinking judiciary.
Forget the lumpens who objected to certain scenes of Vishvaroopam, observe the grotesque arguments forwarded by the court in its stay order and the stand by the state government in defence of the ban. They favour ban to avoid an alleged, imaginary law and order threatened by the goons
in case the movie runs in its current form. The fact that the film has gone through and passed the test of scrutiny by a statutory body like censor board were inconsequential to both of them. What however mattered to both was “hurt sentiments” of some fringe elements with dubious credentials, and their threat to resort to violence in case they are defied. By invoking ban by the state and then later upholding it through the court, both have de facto failed to uphold the rule of law, exact opposite of what they are actually claiming. It is no coincidence that they overlooked this obvious fallacy of their stands, that it is goons who broke or threatened to break the law and not the artist Kamal. The ban only helped in legitimising the threats and claims of the lumpens while criminalising the litigant, the artist. If anyone who needed protection, it was Kamal for his work where he had invested crores rather than the depraved lumpens who wear their misplaced sentiments as potent weapon. The stand that the state government and the court took betrays the dominance of a much ,sinister and monstrous mindsets that guide our society, our government and now even the judiciary. Mindsets of the medieval brutes that sanctions the legitimacy of rule by mobocracy, where virtue is preset in the irrational claims of any mob,as long as they can carry out their threats of death and destruction. In short, a mindset that finally obliterates the very idea of ‘individual rights”.
At a superficial level, the dynamics of such coercions, threats and bans sought by some fringe mobs with a simultaneous complicity by the state and the judiciary appears to be temporary aberrations and so inconsequential. But at a deeper level,the malaise is unmistakably a manifestation of our philosophical decay that has infested the foundation of our political, cultural and social outlooks. This is the philosophy of collectivism, that place the rights of a group, a commune, a mob or a gang over that of an Individual. Observe that in our “idea of justice” we confer the value of ultimate virtue in any act that is purportedly in the ‘interest” of any group or commune rather than that of an individual. There is, curiously no place for an individual identity in our society or political philosophy. We tend to draw our fundamental identity by virtue of being part of a location, community, religion, caste, organisation group, gang or mob. But never as an individual. Individual identity is secondary and insignificant for public or social existence. As a consequence, we seek our rights through such collective identity and very rarely as the individual.
Thus we have various interests groups that bargain collectively from the state and the society for special considerations, privileges, favours or rights. Concepts such as Dalit rights, minority rights, tribal rights, handicapped rights, workers rights or any “special group “rights, etc are the direct fallout of this collective identity dynamics. It is now deeply embedded in our socio-cultural DNA. So much so, that even our judiciary views the delivery of judgements through this collective identity prism. It is quite evident from the stand that courts take whenever there is conflict between the individual rights
and the so called collective rights. The ban on “Vishwaroopam” is a classic
case that confirms this bias. The court decreed that it does not bother about
the individual (Kamal’s)business interests or its loss if it feels that the
interest of a larger group is getting hurt(in this case getting “sentimentally
hurt” ) even though of imaginary nature. To pad up the justification of its
contrived logic, it brings in the bogey of ‘alleged violence” and threat to law
and order. Thus the court and the state government conveniently pass the onus of the above threat of violence and break of law and order on Kamal, rather than the Lumpen mob who actually gave such threats. This, is the final murder of what truth, justice and individual rights represents in any rational
society. Jayalalitha or Mamta, Madras HC or Kolkata HC,they have unequivocally confirmed their refusal to identify the citizen as an Individual. Case after case across the country reaffirms the pattern of underlying thought process that guide the final frontiers of the nation. It is the collective , the mob that is counted, not the individual or his independent idea.
The language of public discourse in all the spheres is in line with the above. When the revered Amma asks Kamal why his film should not be banned as she received applications from 24 Muslim organisations to that effect, what she effectively conveyed was the forgone conclusion that was already in the domain of the polity and the judiciary. Simply put, Kamal had only two options-to face ban or to capitulate to the lumpen mobs demand. The
comprise formula had only one connotation to Kamal-to surrender unconditionally. Because it has not only the approval of the overall moral disposition of the society, the state and even the judiciary also approves in tandem. Kamal the artist, like many others in different parts of the country and in different context has no choice but surrender to the whims of the lumpens. India as a contrived discard of irrationality wins everytime, even though an Indian looses every time, bit by bit. The lumpens rejoice, the state celebrates its omnipotence and perhaps the Judiciary basks in its sense of jurisprudence.
The triumph of unreason, irrationality, collectivism and mobocracy should not surprise us now. It was always in the offing, given the dominant mindsets or philosophy that defined our priorities as citizens. The age of intolerance that we witness today and cry about with incomprehension is the eventual consequence of what we had intellectually approved all this while. Kamal’s Vishwaroopam, in many ways represents the incongruity of the wild,violent bigotry that needs to be banished from the domain of humanity, but eventually ends up at its very victim.
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 11:56 am
the bogey of ‘alleged violence” and threat to law
— so pls tell, who threw petrol bombs & broke theatre properties in chennai. who is going to pay for it. shows were cancelled in kerala & Andhra, both congress ruled states.for a movie on you tube , properties & us embassy was targetted in india. who did that ? SP has told it will ban in UP if it hurt sentiments, but nobody asked for it. is pseudo secular SP.
kamal wanted to buy peace with muslims, by showing them movie . but after seeing the movie, they wanted a ban. it boomaranged on him.
krishna Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:16 pm
That precisely is the point my friend.We all know that there are lumpens lurking around all the corners of the land, thanks to a favourable biosphere created for them. If as a nation , or society we buckle every time they throw acid/petrol bombs, there numbers will only multiply.Remember, any threat, real or imaginary should never be let to get away with a message of triumph-that should be the sacred, bounden duty of the law enforcing agency and the courts. If that reassurance is broken and instead capitulate to an arsonist threat, the state ceases to exist.That is why i said it is mobocracy, not rule of law in TN and most part of India. Thus the question “who did it” is irrelevant in the larger context while analyzing the the role of state and judiciary in ensuring rule of law.There will always be some lumpen, ready with the bomb.The idea is to obliterate him, not the victims.
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 pm
rule of law
— collector of madurai & cudallore hv banned the entry of PMK leader Dr. Ramdoss into these districts, as he will incite caste clashes. but when it comes to particular religion, the pseudo seculars & liberals create a different picture as their victimisation, which fuels further tension. why will political party alienatate a particular group, when another will claim to be their saviour for votes.
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:39 pm
who did it” is irrelevant
— this is problem, when A can do it why not B. when A was punished for its activity it would hv been a lesson for B.
but not condemming A but B, leads to this situation. some groups hv friends in media which presents them as victims. so a common man is confused & asks why A is let out, and their action justified by apologist but not B.
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:11 pm
once you appease a particular religion, caste for votes, you will hv to do it for all. that’s what is happening. instead of arguing agains them , the media, liberals, gaurdian of freedom became apologist for these groups and here we are.
amu Reply:February 2nd, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Forget the lumpens who objected to certain scenes of Vishvaroopam, observe the grotesque arguments forwarded by the court
—- forget the court, if the lumpens did not object, there is no need for court. who gave them right to object in the first place. beating around the bush. call the lumpens freedom terrorist openly , will you.
Glad that you have sort of stopped writing political commentary after Radia’s episode and trying to gain back some credubility.
Good for new learner.
Keep voting for entitlement and keep wondering who failed you.