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How the Sikhs got alienated
I was a reporter in the Times of India when Operation Blue Star took place in June, 1984, exactly 26 years ago. The Operation was aimed at flushing out terrorists led by Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale from the Golden Temple, the holiest Sikh Shrine.But obviously the whole strategy backfired.
Prime Minister Indira Gandhi who was initially against the use of any force to evict the militants was prevailed upon by some of her advisers to order a military operation. Thus the operation began in the early hours of June 6th under the overall command of Lt. General Sunderji and the operational command of Brig. K S Brar.
The TOI had assigned Subhash Kirpekar, then a special correspondent, the task of covering the military operation. Both me and my colleague, Ravi Bhatia were keen that we should be sent since we were on the crime beat but the Editor, Giri Lal Jain had given the okay signal to Subhash. Therefore we got to monitor this historic event with huge ramifications from afar (distant Delhi).
At that time, it was known that the Golden Temple complex and the adjoining Guru Ram Dass Sarai had been virtually taken over by the militants led by Bhindranwale. One terrorist, Sukhdev Singh, arrested in Delhi on the Tolstoy Marg-Barakhamba Road crossing after he and his associates had robbed a bank on Parliament Street had blurted everything out.
Of course the Intelligence agencies were aware of a lot of things but Sukhdev’s interrogation was an eye opener both for the Delhi police and the IB. I had covered this arrest after a shooting incident on January 2, 1984 if I recall correctly. Sukhdev was linked to a robbery in a jeweler store in Karol Bagh on November 29, 1983 and the Police also recovered the booty as well as arms from his native village somewhere near Karnal. The police team led by former ACP, Hari Dev had carried out this exercise under the command of Brajesh Gupta who was then the DCP, New Delhi.
Other evidence subsequently corroborated Sukhdev’s revelations. But the government kept sitting on the issue. A stitch in time could have saved nine and a major confrontation at the Golden Temple could have been averted. But the buildup continued and finally the Indian Army with the help of commandoes from its elite regiments and tank fire managed to neutralize the militants inside the Golden Temple on June 6th and 7th.
The damage was very huge. The temple had been desecrated and the Akal Takht was totally destroyed. The Sikhs, the world over were in rage and vowed to take revenge. Those who were killed included Bhindranwale, General Shahbeg Singh, an expert on military warfare who led the offensive against Indian forces and senior functionaries of the All India Sikh Students Federation and the Damdami Taksal.
The Indian Army had won but the price was too heavy. The Sikhs were up in arms and extremely angry. They openly criticized the government action and for the first time in her political career, Indira Gandhi was clueless on how to deal with the subsequent situation. She eventually was shot dead by her own security guards, both Sikhs on October 31, 1984. The killing was followed by anti Sikh riots, which were very barbaric and shameless and would always remain a blot on Independent India’s history.
The killing of several prominent Congress leaders in Delhi followed the riots. South Delhi MP and upcoming Congress leader Lalit Maken and his wife Geetanjali were gunned down on July 31, 1985 at their house. Harjinder Singh Jinda and his associates killed another Congress leader Arjun Dass on September 4, 1985. Jinda also subsequently killed General Vaidya, the Chief of Army staff during Operation Blue Star.
Delhi witnessed a multitude of terrorist strikes. The Transistor Bomb blasts on May 10 and 11 in 1985 left nearly 50 dead in the capital and an equal number at other places. Some suspects — Kartar Singh Narang, Mahinder Singh Plywoodwala and Mahinder Singh Calcutta were rounded up on May 12th itself by the Delhi Police (The charge sheet of the case was never submitted.)
The success at arresting the suspects also led to the elevation of Ved Marwah as the Delhi Police Commissioner to succeed SS Jog, a very fine officer who was brought in from Bombay to take over in the period following the anti Sikh riots. Jog went back and Marwah took over the mantle as Delhi Police Chief. He is regarded by many as the best Police Commissioner Delhi ever had.
Punjab continued to be on the boil and in April 1986 after receiving orders from then Chief Minister, Surjit Singh Barnala, the security forces carried out Operation Black Thunder-I at the Golden Temple complex to flush out 300 militants.
Militancy in Punjab did not end. In fact, there were attempts on the life of Julio Rebeiro, who was sent there as the DGP and even on Siddhartha Shankar Ray, the Governor. A build up started once again in the Golden Temple and matters came to a head when S S Virk, then a DIG with the CRPF was shot at the Temple gate near Katra Ahluwalia on May 9, 1988. Thus Operation Black Thunder-II commenced.
I had moved on to The Hindu and was covering Punjab. I reached Amritsar on May 10th after receiving instructions from my Editor, G Kasturi. It was on that day, I met for the first time, KPS Gill who had just taken over as the DGP and who was present at the press conference along with Amritsar DC, Sarabjit Singh at the Kotwali police Station. A lot of journalists had descended on Amritsar in anticipation of the Operation by security forces. There was Tavleen Singh, Badshah Sen, Shekhar Gupta, Tarun Tejpal, Kanwar Sandhu, Dinesh Kumar, Harinder Baweja, Ashwani Talwar, Avinash Singh, Satish Jacob and so on. Sanjit Sinha, an IAS officer who was the Director, Public Relations of the Punjab government and a close aide of the Governor would brief the media occasionally.
The Operation was meticulously carried out and what we learnt later had been planned by top police officials including Ajit Doval (IB), Ved Marwah (NSG) and others. The whole exercise was held in full media glare and the militants were neutralized even as journalists watched from the roof of Guru Ram Dass Sarai.
During the eight to ten days we were there, I saw Karaj Singh Thande (this is the name some Punjab police official said) being shot from top of a tower by NSG sharpshooters and witnessed the surrender of a whole lot of militants including Nirvair Singh, Malkiat Singh Ajnala and Surjit Singh Penta, a nephew of Jinda wanted in connection with terrorist strike in Delhi on June 13, 1987 and the killing of two BJP leaders on July 30, 1987.
I can never forget that Penta on seeing a top CID officer amongst the senior officials present after his arrest consumed a Cyanide capsule and before others and I released what was happening, he started frothing from the mouth. He was whisked away but declared dead shortly afterwards. One story about the whole exercise I remember with great professional satisfaction is about the code name of the Operation, which was kept a highly guarded secret. All newspapers including mine (The Hindu) had their own names. Some referred to it as Operation Flushout and others as something else.
I was the only one who got it right on the last day before anyone else could get it. We were walking back to the Amritsar International Hotel from the Golden Temple complex when I encountered two or three CRPF men walking with their guns, which they dismantled, from a post. I was walking ahead of others so I reached out to one of them and shook his hand while congratulating him on the successful completion of the operation. Then I asked him, what was the Operation called. “Operation Black thunder-II” he shot back. It was enough and the next day’s Hindu carried the name of the Operation while no one till that time knew about this. My Editor patted me on my back.
Militancy did not end and continued for a few more years. It appeared to disappear by the end of 1991. Many give the credit for this to KPS Gill or to some others. But I have another take on this, which I will write in one of my Blogs.
I am like the rest of us, very happy that Punjab is normal and the Sikhs are back in the mainstream. I can say with a lot of pride that there is no community in India, which is as large hearted, and giving as the Sikhs. I have always had the highest respect for their valour, courage and large heartedness.
What happened in the eighties is something all of us would want to forget with the prayer that nothing like this ever occurs again.
(45 votes, average: 4.02 out of 5)
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A good article.
This was one of the most saddest chapters of Independent India and a tragedy for all.
Sikhs , who were held in high regard and affection , all over India, came to be viewed as bigoted communalists, because of the actions of the Khalistani terrorists and the Akali Dal.
However, while we cry for those innocents who died in the Blue-star operation and 1984 riots, we should shed some tears to for 1000's, who were butchered by khalistani terrorists, in cold blooded murders by lining them up on the streets , off buses and trains in Punjab and killing them in worst communal killings India has seen anywhere, in a non-riot situation.
This continued for years and was put to a stop only after 1984.
[Reply]
Ash Singh Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Do you know how many killed by Government agencies and how many by Khalistani militant? Do say Govt. agencies don't do these kind of things. militant or any revolution sustain because of public supoort. that support is blood or life line of any kind of militancy. so the first thing is to remove those support system. If you think indian government can't do that then i salute your Deshbhagti…. Look how they are treating their agent /informers…..military officer……honest officers……you know who is indirectly responsible for the death of 100's jawans and officer during Kargil war…….how indian governement treated widows of those Jawans….if politicians can play with the life's of honest police officer (buy providing them non funtional bullet proof jackets) then you can think how low they can go..
[Reply]
Sir,
Like an undisturbed,unpolluted river flows this article of yours.Whoever happens to read it will definitely agree with your statement that “no community in India is as large hearted and giving as the Sikhs”. Though none can justify the brutal murder of Indira Gandhi,the fact that the innumerable hardships this community went through for years before and after her murder deserves our sympathy. Those, who are now indulging in heinous acts in the name of their tribe/caste/religion like the Muslim terrorists, Maoists and those who destruct mosques,nunneries and burn alive innocent nuns and priests, have a lot to learn from the Sikhs-how a community shouldn't be and more importantly how a community SHOULD BE.
[Reply]
Manmohan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:25 am
Well said, Mr. Fazil.
[Reply]
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 11:05 am
Hi mr Fazil, its true in india muslims and sikhs are minority but that doesnt mean we have to suffer under hindu idiotic rule look how corrupted they are , shame shame
[Reply]
A.M.FAZIL Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:49 pm
It's your false perception that prompts you to say that we're under hindu rule. Our country is a secular one and here no community can claim that they're superior to other communities. We love our motherland as much as any one.Let's believe in democracy, in our judiciary and in our own strength to tolerate.
[Reply]
While sikhs militants were shot , captured or hanged. Hindu rioters have gone scot free, without a single conviction. Shame on the Indian Judiaciary and Police for the same. For those who suffered the violence, your feel good blogs would not wipe away the nightmares.
Sikhs may be large hearted and forgive, but they never will forgive. Not only were the sikhs subjected to violence, there was and still is a huge amount of humilation perperated on them.
[Reply]
Jatan Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:02 pm
That is the problem. You first start militancy, terrorism and then when someone stands up against you, you will never forgive.
I remember standing in a place where a Sikh terrorist had placed a bomb. I was lucky to survive that day. I too shouldnt forgive you guys for that and maybe all the other people who were killed that day or during the 84 riots because of your khalistani terrorism etc should never forgive you all.
[Reply]
Supinder Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:24 pm
If India abides by the tenants of habeus corpus then all citizens are entitled to Justice. If the rule of law is universal then those innocent Sikh Delhites massacred in a state sponsered pogram should get justice.
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Proud to be a Sikh Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Look at history and see what this community has done for the country and do mind your tone.Do look at the circumstances which lead to this terrorist acts. Learn to appreciate the good things this community has done for your country.I can only say to you look what your majority community has done for your country. You aint anyone to be forgiving anybody.
[Reply]
aukat Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Ranjeet singh ki rajdhani lahore thi… Jao aukat hai to pakistan se mang lo…
You are not proud … you need to learn to appreciate… jis thali mei khate ho usi me chhed karte ho.
bikramjit Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:05 pm
to aukat,
ppl like u did chhed[hole] in a thali, if u call thm urself hindu thts just because of sikhs, i think u r very weak in history. india was never free and ruled by invaders, british and even before tht different tribes. if u guys r so brave thn why u were not able to secure ur own land frm invaders ?they ruled u guys 1000 years and when sikh religion took birth on a earth thn they block attacks from all invaders. i.e ahmed shah abdali, who did attack on india 14times. where were ur brave indians tht time?where were ur brave indians ,when ur mothers and sisters were selling in the market of mehmood gaznavi? for ur kind information tht was sikhs, those save ur mothers ,sisters and wives from ghaznavi?
87% freedom fighters were sikh ,when we fought against british and u guys gave all credit to nehru and gandhi? and after partition broke all the promises tht gandhi did before partition . WHO IS BETRAYER?till today no matter kargil war or war against any other countries. always sikhs r on front. and ur calling us betrayer. man go and read some history and see inside urself.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:08 am
Again u are ignoring how many hindu jats and rajputs died in kargil? The majority was jats but i never say other didnt fight. The fact is that Jats primary occupation is argiculture and military. We all love bhagat singh and chandershekhar. Dont just assume things.
And for ur information marathas were great warrior too.
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
U r right. All the brave (Sikhs, Hindu Jats, Rajputs) and courageous need to be infinitely appreciated.
Ravi Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:37 am
1. We will get what we wnat… we dont need to share our idias with Indians….
2. So did ur forefathers do chhed (whole) in British India Thali…? …you are putting our food in your thali and eating it without saying thanks to us….
sherjeel Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
yeh saala hindu. Hum musalmaan tumhara adha mulk le gayae hain, aur tu aukat ki baat karta hai sikhon ki. Hai himmat to le ke dekh le pakistan. Aa ja phir panipat par. phir se nanga kar ke marenge teri Quam ko. Saale 1000 saal tak hamare tatton ke neeche the, kumus kum sikhon mein tumse zyada gairat hai.
sherjeel ahmed Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Arre aukat ek aur cheez. Ladne aoge to sonia gandhi ko bhi le aana. Uski salwaar ke peeche chupne ka mauka mil jayaega tumhe.
J.S.Chauhan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:21 am
Mr. Proud to be Sikh..you need this history lesson as well..
I am not sure how old you think you are but sure not old enough to have lived in Guru Nanak Dev's time therefore what you say is also coming from books. What do you say to this: Guru Nanak Dev was born a Hindu, all of his followers were born Hindus! Generations later you are trying to say Hindus are not brave…read over this phrase if you missed the point! It does not matter how many times you scream and type the fact remains your seed is of a Hindu “may be few years old or few hundred years old” and that's the bottom line here, keep it in your mind before you type anything against Hindus as you would be insulting only yourself and your elders. There is no doubt when an innocent is killed it is shameful…what happened in Delhi in 84 was shameful and will remain shameful and since our own people did this to our own brothers (and I mean real brothers…remember the background, one brother went on to become a Sikh to fight and other remained at home to help the family make the ends meet..Doesn’t mean he was not brave, he might have tried hard to join as well) however what those militants did was also shameful and will remain shameful (and don't even try to defend them).
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:58 am
Mr. Chauhan- the moment youcall yourself a Hindu you defy the great Vedas and Upanishads. follow the tenets of the sanatan dharma, you will become a sikh. it is just that the sanatan dharam got off track and started calling itself as hindu brought about the birth of sikkhism. when a person used to be ostracised his hairs used to be cut so that the entire society would banish him/her, sati was never practised, people used to believe in sharing and spenidng evening/ morning reciting the name of the LORD, etc, etc….. the Sanatan dharma was being polluted by the DHARAm gururs and these people created the castes and creeds so that their ROTI is always available. that's the reason the practise of LANGAR was initiated where in Emperor Akbar was asked to sit among the farmers and cobblers before he could have Guru Amardasji's darshan….lets grow as stated in one of the inputs here
Lakersndbulls Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 4:24 am
yes sir…and all hindus were pagans before aryans came to INDIA…we know we were hindus and we are happy that we are not anymore
rohit Reply:
June 17th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
u mean to say dat ur ancestors were hindus,but now i will fight against hindus for a sikh homeland makes perfect sense right!!!!!
Ash Singh Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Jatan, you used “when someone stand against you” you are a brave boy… why india have not produced brave boys like you and those rioters for 1000 years when any body with 5000 soliders used to destroy kingdoms, mandir, raped women, girls and those slaved Indian girls were used to be sold….Do you remember name like Nadir Shah, Ahmed Shah Abdali, Babar,,, and thousand other name…NO…..i know you don't know those name brave boy….. Ask you papa. He may pee in his pant…
if you are reading books written by Indian general about 1965 and 1961 wars you are reading 50% of the story, now read what Pakistani generals are writing…..
First note “how to survive” is —-don't hurt your saviour……Hindu army(Minus Sikh and Gorkha) can't stand Pakistan’s army even for one day…..and gujju army will pee hours if they even try to face pakistani…
[Reply]
Rohit Lal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Ash Singh,
You can continue to post your rants.
With all your bravado – Punjab ended up remaining with India. You can try it again. Use all the help you want – whether it is from the Canadians, the English, or the Pakistanis.
We know the names of the Muslim invaders you talk about. You talk about a time when there were small kingdoms fighting each other – and also having to defend against marauding Muslim invaders who had nothing to lose. And you are comparing these medieval forces to the professional modern day Indian Army.
I have serious doubts about your rationality. But you go ahead – and come up with some more of your fantastic comparisons. We're all ears.
By the way – if the Sikhs are in fact the mainstay of the 'fighting' arms of the Indian Army – why didn't they just take over or defeat the Indian Army itself and establish Khalistan in the whole of India? Point to ponder, no? But I guess thats too complicated for a jerk like you to comprehend.
aaa Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:29 pm
are you justify the delhi roits and godra riots
bikramjit Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Rohit Lal,
its very easy to say ,thtwere small kingdom fights, lol if i ask u same question ,if tht was so easy things thn wht were ur hindu ancestors were doing?why they didnt pick swords and fight against ppl those were selling ur moms and sisters?
if u guys were so brave ,why u never had freedom before?i mean first different tribes came, thn mughal invaders and thn british?why british ruled 200yrs on india and 100yrs of punjab?even punjab got uder british rule because of betrayer from indian majority.
dear no matter in which century u live, if u have courage and determination, u can learn all the tactics of fights. so dont give tht stupd example tht time technolgy was not so advance thts why it was easy to fought.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:03 am
U better learn histroy. Sikhs were the one who were with Britishers in 1857 for whatever reason. However Sikhs are like brother to me. I am a hindu Jat and sikhs jats are brother. When al these muslim invaders came your ancestors were also here opn this very soil. Y didnt they defend their land same as mine. Hindu jaton ne banaye he sikh Jat pahle har ghar se ek ladka bej diya jata tha sikh banne ke liye. Apne dada se puchna jake.
Sikhs are also hindu. Rahi bat bravery of indian army ki to kitne Jat marte he border pe jake dekh le.
We all are one and have to live as one.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:05 am
Jo kuch sikhon ke sath hoya uska afsoos muje hamesha rahega. Par iske liye sare hindus ko gali mat do. Hum jaton ne koi sikh bhai nahi mara.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:36 am
Dear Dharmender, i am not insulting whole hindu community but some elements those r just poisned their mind with hate etc. btw u said, i am pretty much aware of history, sikhs were with britishers, thts right and they took part in world war second,because they were thinking tht after tht brithish will free india etc .and there were some hindu battalions as well in british army ,so dont just highlights sikhs.
and u said when muslim invaders attack sikhs were also there, but dear sikh religion starts from Guru Nanak Devji. and invaders were attacking from centuries before, and tht intitate took by guru nanakdevji, when they oppose Babar cruelty and call him cruel ,said truth in on his face ,and after ward sikhs starts to fight wih invaders and block thm .
and 1 final thing i dnt hate any religion but some ppl those just dont know abt history but make their opinions frm some book and news articles etc.
and in every religion there r good and bad elements, so in tht way i am not insulting whole community but my point is specifically towards tht elements.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:50 am
“by sikhs were there” I mean there ancestors were there.. I know sikhs religion started late but u cant dis-inherit ur ancestory. I am hindu jat and sikh jatts (50% of sikhs) have common ancestory. U are insulting ur own ancestory
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:54 am
I ddint distinguish sikhs, I am just telling u that mistakes are done by all communities and sikhs are no exception. We also should avoid using words like “hindus” or “sikhs” which represent whole community. There are a few idiots in sikhs and there are a few idiots in hindus. Lets not play in their hand
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:01 am
I wasnt talking about WW2 but 1857. and as i said reasons could be anything. BY This I dont want to degrade sikhs. I am just showing u the mirror. Dont just abuse others. Let this hate vent out of ur mind. What i wanted to tell u is that sikhs are made out of hindu tribes (like jat tribes one of them ). SO u cant say hindus couldnt stop muslim invaders.Ur ancestors( that time they were not sikhs) also couldnt stop muslim invaders. I just saw ur photo. U are an elder and aisi soch ek elder ko shoba nahi deti., U elders should teach us how to live united and with peace. and just ignore a few who spread hate. United we stand.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:42 am
Dharmender lol u make me laugh ,dear i think u dont have proper knowledege abt sikh history. i dnt say i am perfect, i am also not perfect but here i have bit more information.when sikh religion starts they have different ideology and they work and stich with tht ideology, which reject all the fake rituals, which were created by brahmins. when they break tht rituals and they accepted the reality and become more near to truth tht make thm sikhs different. otherwise in tht way all humans r same blood, cells and all organ system. but in real i respect all human being no matter from which background and race but unfortunately i have to used tht word hindu,etc because ppl r splitting so much poison ,and i have seen myself in mirror and i know where i am stand but have u checked urself?
and i dont have any picture here, i dont whose pic. u have seen.
anyway dharmender, sorry dear if u feel hurt but tht was not my point.have a good day.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:01 am
BIkramjit, I may make u laugh but u didnt make me laugh untill now. Sikhism was started by some hindus and that was my point which u accept as well. We had same ancestors and they were hindus??
I know about the idealogical diff from bhramins thats y we dont have sati partha and we remarry widows in jat
The people who are writing against sikhs are idoits and cowards.
Anyway its good to know ur point of view that u were not blaiming a whole religion.
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:14 am
Its nice that you understand bikramjit's point.
Just chill yaar.
J. S. Chauhan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:18 am
I am not sure how old you think you are but sure not old enough to have lived in Guru Nanak Dev's time therefore what you say is also coming from books. What do you say to this: Guru Nanak Dev was born a Hindu, all of his followers were born Hindus! Generations later you are trying to say Hindus are not brave…read over this phrase if you missed the point! It does not matter how many times you scream and type the fact remains your seed is of a Hindu “may be few years old or few hundred years old” and that's the bottom line here, keep it in your mind before you type anything against Hindus as you would be insulting only yourself and your elders. There is no doubt when an innocent is killed it is shameful…what happened in Delhi in 84 was shameful and will remain shameful and since our own people did this to our own brothers (and I mean real brothers…remember the background, one brother went on to become a Sikh to fight and other remained at home to help the family make the ends meet..Doesn’t mean he was not brave, he might have tried hard to join as well) however what those militants did was also shameful and will remain shameful (and don't even try to defend them).
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:34 am
First of all of if ur so much confident abt urself thn talk to me with ur real name not with anyone else name[as ur using js chauhan name]. lol i already have seen how much courage u have, btw guru nanak devji was born in hindu family but he never accept any hindu ideology or hindu ritual. secondly u said i also read tht thing from books yes, i read tht also from books, but tht material was not published in RSS press, tht ideology ur trying to spread.
if u have know abt evolution theories, thn u also know ,scientist also believe tht after long evolution monkey/apes became human. so in tht way u urself still call monkey?if yes, thn u can call sikhs r hindu.
AK Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:23 am
so r u reading from Khalsa press…lols
J.S.Chauhan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:28 pm
If you believe in this theory that we were once monkeys I have nothing to say to you as you don't just disgrace Sikhism or Gurus but you also disgrace Hindus or Sanataks. You know I was only 9 when I was reading this, I disagreed with this theory than and I disagree with it now…only there are alot more scientists now who also disagree with this theory. Not to mention all the religions (including the one you call yours now, and the one your elders called their than) disagree with this. By the way, ,my name is Jaber Singh Chauhan…and you know what my cousin's name is? sadly…he's called Bikramjit Singh Chauhan (I hope that's not you Lucky).
J. S. Chauhan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:10 pm
One more thing Bikram, Rajputs have contributed a lot towards both religions; Hindu and Sikh, however most of us do not go around and brag about it, do you know why? It was our duty! In my family we have many Sikh relatives along with Hindu relatives, however we all stand together to defend this great nation of ours. We discuss these things as well, we discuss 84 riots but we also discuss what those terrorists did (singling people out of a full bus, sparing who wore turbans) and mind you at the end of the day we all agree on one thing: we are proud Indians, we may not be perfect. We all have flaws but you know what we are INDIANS. Stop the hatred because no Guru will forgive you for abandoning your own family. My own family who is full of Sikhs and Hindus continues to defend our nation by serving in Army and Air force (and of course by other means as well, as serving in Defense is not the only way of helping once nation), and we will continue to do so…with your help or without it. – I am not going to be posting on this subject any more…I don’t give up on my own people but people on this page have gone to far, so much hate!!! God help you!
verysmartindi Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:58 am
Perfect…. Well Said J. S Chauhanji….. Tussi Chaa Gaye!!!!!!
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Absolutely great logic. If you would just let me re-iterate:
1. “The fact remains that you are a seed of a hindu.” The fact also, is then, that you are a seed of a monkey, right?
2. “All of us you were born a hindu”. Well, by the same logic, all of us were born monkeys. Well, I cannot judge Darwin was wrong, but then this is nothing to rejoice about.
3. “Type anything against hindus, and you'd insult your elders.” Well, monkeys have been too much insulted by now.
Naipal Singh Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:38 am
Dharminder Bhai: You do not have to appologize to any one. Sikhs are harvesting what the had sawn. They can talk, brag and feel good talking about how brave they are and what they have done to protect Hidus. The truth remains and the history is witness that they did nothing to protect Hindus. Those wariors they talk about, were the sons of Hindus and mainly Jats. At that time there was no Sikhism. Guru Nanak was there to spread the word God and not preaching Sikhism. As I said in my other comment, India would have got Indepemndence in 1857 if the Sikhs would not havesided with the British. They have been very loyal to British Raj.
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Correct, Guru Nanak did not preach Sikhism, but he did serve a severe blow to Hindu ritualism and Muslims belief of single path (their path) being the only correct path to achieve salvation. He believed in humanity as one race and this is what he said, “I am no Hindu, and I am not Muslim”. So your basic tenet that, Gunu Nanak was Hindu is wrong, as THAT is the first thing he denied to be a Hindu, and a brahmin at that.
I Quit Driving Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:24 am
If you want to know (and may be understand) real History, read this: http://www.laladaulatrai.com/c...
Dejected Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:06 am
Rohit – very refreshing to see someone stand up and call a spade..a spade. For years I found myself isolated in defending Operation Blue Star (It was poorly managed but thats another discussion) or Black thunder.
It is does not mater if the militant is Sikh (as in Punjab) or Christian (as in the North east) or Muslim (as in Kashmir) or Hindu (as in Maharashtra/Karnataka).
When someone resorts to violence against the citizens of a country the administration is justified in using force.
What scares me the most however, is that even educated folks (as in this forum) can spew hatred as well.
When will this end….?
Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:07 am
So do you call Bhagat Singh and all other Indian freedom fighters 'TERRORISTS' because they challenged the writ of administration of that time ?
Vijay Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:44 pm
Mr. Ash Singh, all invaders came through Punjab. Where was your martial race then. Hindus succumbed because of their policy of dharmayuddha and were unaware of taqiyya tactics of Ghori. Times have changed. The hero of Taj attack was a brahmin from Kerala, Donot forget that. If you were such heroes most part of Punjab would not have become muslim. Please stop hurling baseless lies.
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Mughals were defeated and they had come from North and Punjab. Had the Britishers came in from the same land, they had _no_ chance. But Britishers were smart, much smarter. They entered from Bengal. (It is called British “East India” Company. Not British “North India” company. Ha Ha Ha. You are pathetic.) The p**sy Bengalis can only talk, as they knew. Get a book, that is the reason Kolkatta was the British capital before New Delhi. Yes! Now you know who the cu*ts were. Punjab has Muslims cause Sikhs respect everyone as equal, whether be it a Hindu or a Muslim. Muslims were oppressing Hindus (even before Britishers came in) so Sikhs fought on behalf of Hindu (and even Hindus were involved as their elder sons went fighting.). But, I assure you, if then (or now) Hindus start oppressing Muslims, the Sikhs would be on the side of Muslims. Sikhs believe a fair judgement and in one Human race, they would stand against the one who is oppressed.
INDIAN Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:46 am
Dear Ash
I am a bit low on knowledge on what happened back in 1984. But if you have studied the history, The first Guru of Sikh “Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji” asked the fellow citizen of INDIA to give their elder son to him(who will follow the rules of GURU and become a sikh) so that he can build up a force which can fight the intruders from the Islamic countries like AFGANISTAN etc……
So the evolution of Sikhism is from Hinduism. Now you talk about the Sikh's fighting muslim intruders like Nadir Shah etc. Have not you read about RAJPUTANA kingdoms in RAJASTHAN who fought the intruders from Arabic and Muslim countries. Don't you know about Prithvi Raj Chauhan who defeated those intruders well before sikh came into existence in 1191. while the Sikhism came into existence in mid 1400.
So make your mouth shut and let the facts speak
FACT FROM HISTORY:
“Chand Bardai who was Prithviraj's (blinded by GHAURI) friend was asked to guide him. Chand Bardai using his poems guided Prithiviraj to shoot his arrow at Ghauri, who due to a timely intervention was spared his life”
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
U are correct, your knowledge is a bit low in history. Guru Nanak did not preach Sikhism, on the contrary, he served a severe blow to Hindu ritualism and Muslims belief of single path (their path) being the only correct path to achieve salvation. He believed in humanity as one race and this is what he said, “I am no Hindu, and I am not Muslim”. So your basic tenet that, Gunu Nanak was Hindu is wrong, as THAT is the first thing he denied to be a Hindu, and a brahmin at that.
And Guru Nanak asked the fellow citizens of “India”??? Well, you need to see where Mughals came in and British are a much later story of future. Guru Govind Singh (the first Singh, ever) is the one who prepared the martial race, NOT Guru Nanak Dev.
Man, get a grip, or get a history book. Please, I insist.
I Quit Driving Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:25 am
Read http://www.laladaulatrai.com/c... and you would understand who incorrect you are.
Rohit Lal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:26 pm
I'm sorry, I do not agree with the notion that you can harbor a bunch of terrorists in your most revered Shrine, from where they indulge in anti-national activities. And that you expect the Government of the day to sit back and do nothing. Your community started it – you had nothing to say when Pakistan backed thugs were amassing weapons in the Golden Temple complex. Your shrine was already desecrated by the activities of these terrorists led by that megalomaniac Bhrindranwale.
In ANY country – it is the duty of the state to enforce its writ and excercise the power to use violence to curb those who challenge its authority. Pakistan attacked its Lal Masjid mosque in the heart of Islamabad – because the militants were challenging its authority.
If the state does not enforce its authority, the Rule of Law will disappear and there will be chaos.
You talk about Hindu rioters going scott free – what about the Hindu bus passengers in Punjab who were singled out by Sikh terrorists and shot? Why do you have to say nothing about that?
I do agree that Operation Blue Star was badly planned, and we could have avoided the destruction that was caused by the Army onslaught. But I will not fault the Government or the Army for the intent to flush the Golden Temple of the terrorist filth during Operation Blue Star. Operation Black Thunder was what the Government should have conducted originally, in order to prevent the destruction caused by Blue Star.
And to end what I have to say – the fact that Beant Singh and Satwant Singh killed the very person they had sworn to protect – is the most shameful act an individual can do – regardless of their perceived anger at the harm done to their faith. They took advantage of the Government's (and Indira Gandhi's) faith in the principles of Secular India – that let them have the position of her Security Gaurds in the first place, and killed her. What can be more under-handed than this? They based themselves as humans that day.
[Reply]
bikramjit Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:49 pm
Mr. Rohit the main prb with u ppl r tht u just read indian govt. cooked story books, if u live in punjab and have little bit knowledge abt history and tried to some reseach u wud never ask these type of questions.
like u just mentioned why sikh militants killed hindus. in reality true sikh militants never support to killing of innocent ppl no matter frm which religion they belong too. even they r few examples where sikh militants save hindu girls. that indian govt. was scared by the good prestige and support that sikh militants were getting from general population and they make army of goons under the punjab police high rank officer Mohammed Izhar Alam , they called it Alam force, those took appearnce like sikh militants and did all the worst stuff,rapes, innocents killing and money extortions and media was wrking for govt and they make news tht sikh militants did all tht stuff.
sikhs dont have media and resources at the moment ,thts why there r alot of unopened layers of betray and false stories, and when person likes human rights chairman Mr.Jaswant Singh Khalra, tried to unfold it, butcher kps gill and his police force killed him.
Mr. Rohit, dont make any opnion ,just to read some books[from indian gvt. funded authors] or heard stories frm others.try to research on some tht topics, even today u can find alot of material on internet and try to explore urself before making nay opnion abt anyone.
[Reply]
Rohit Lal Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:42 am
I don't even want to dignify the **** you posted with a comment.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:22 am
Its ok Rohit, i already said truth is really hard to digest and when it cant digest ,th it feels like a piece of ****.so its ok. just relax and tc of urself.
verysmartindi Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:46 am
Wahe Guruji Ka Khalsa teh Wahe Guruiji ki Fateh…. this Liar bikramjit is nothing but an ISI agent and a stooge of the naPAKShaitanis… He himself belongs to a family of cowards and liars who never did anything productive and now has come up with conspiracy theories a-la naPAK Shaitani….. Bikramjit…… your lies are for your own consumption….. Dhur Phite Moon Tera aur tere naPAK Khandaan Ka…..
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:09 am
Lol very smart indi????
u have proven ur smartness alreay. u idiot , i am not agent of anyone, may u r the dalal of indian govt.
ppl like u who dnt have to say anything, just start to call otherone pakistani.
and but its nor ur fault thts ur level of maturity and ur brain capacity.
and u seem to belong frm cowad family. because ppl lke u, who always get slapped and insulted by others in real life[because dont have courage to ans. thm back there] come here on internet and start to brust out ur frustration here.
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm
oye paaji kade school di shakal vekhi aah? yaar amii ta nai syaane kende school jayo? ahaha
Naipal Singh Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:10 am
Bikramjit: You dont seems to know what you are talking or saying. why dont you stop the **** and let some sensible people express their opinion.You had your say and some one dont agree with you. Just read the response and accept the fact they do not agree with you. There is no need for you to push your opinion on others again and again.Do you have to keep on and make a fool of yourself.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:30 am
Mr.Tomar, if u dnt have any sense to differentiate between pushing and expressing ur opinion that wht i shud do?
p saxena Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:28 am
I remember in the 1970's every paanwala had an opinion on the croicket team. ” gavaskar ko kuch nahi pata, Ghavri ko over deta, to jeet jate”
How can you say Operation Bluestar was badly planned? How many military operations have you planned and executed? What are your credentials?
[Reply]
Rohit Lal Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:39 am
Mr. Saxena,
I don't pretend to be as knowledgable as you are about military planning. What I do know is that we had two very similar situations in the same place with the same sort of terrorists. One was overcome with huge collateral damage which inflamed Sikhs across the country, and the other caused no damage, and crushed the militancy.
Now, any impartial observer would favour the latter situation, except of course, for knowledgable people like you.
prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
I never said I was an expert, I was merely asking if you were. The most complex situations look simple in hindsight. Mistakes were made, lessons were learnt and mistakes were not repeated. That's adequate in my book.
prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Being an ex army officer, I can visualize the discussions in the planning room. At that time the feeling in the army was that if you call the army to deal with a situation, it means all other resources have been exhausted and collateral damage is expected and acceptable.
The most precious thing to an army officer, that which he is taught to give up his own life to protect, is the lives of his men. It was one of the cruellest lessons we would later learn in the media bashing that followed, that the value of the lives of our brave soldiers was less than the value of a building which can be and was repaired. We were asked why more orphans were not created to protect a religious shrine. I thought a shrine was meant to protect humanity.
I can visualise the planning room where they would have talked about storming a fortified structure with bunkers and machine guns and tried to forecast their own casualty rates.
They would have thought of ways to minimize the casualty rate and suggestions would have been made to have greater use of armoured vehicles to protect our own troops and provide greater fire power to destroy bunkers.
Unfortunately no political advisers were present to foresee the political fallout. The army then had no time for politics. Now, sadly, they have gotten more involved with the thankless job of anti-insurgency operations. They are still laying down their lives but are getting abused for it by knowledgeable people like you.
singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:55 am
i don't think it was badly planned on accident… i think it was badly planned on purpose. to attack during guru arjan sahib's gurpurab, when thousands of innocent civilians were sure to be there, that was really well planned. to attack 30+ other gurdwaras at the same time, again, well planned. the GOI did great planning if their goal was to attack and murder innocent sikhs and cause an increase in militancy and communal tensions. they did a great job at that.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:45 am
Hi Mr Lal . First with respect i like to mentioned that Sikhs never killed any innocent hindus it was big conspiracy against us ,with the death of bhindrawala our struggle died what ever happen after that was revenge killings against each other but given the name sikh militancy i am the witness to that , my roots from punjab place call Fathegarh sahib , shrind and please search your facts before you calling sikhs as terrorist
[Reply]
MS Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:19 pm
A question for all of you out there who are talking **** about India….How many of you actually are proud of Sikh intellectuals like Dr. Manmohan Singh, Dr. Montek Singh Aluhwalia , Mohanbir Singh Sawhney, Amar Cheema,Juggs Ahluwalia
I had the chance to go to the top engineering institute in India ….and like you said that Sikhs were never given an opportunities…I had 20 people in my own class who were Sikhs… and had the opportunity to work under a Sikh CEO in Standard Chartered Bank in India….
A Sikh CEO ran HLL for more than 8 years and a Sikh CEO ran the govt undertaking BSNL..for 6 years….and a SIkh CEO headed the citibank operations in India before he left for Mastercard to become its global CEO
We Indian Sikhs are proud to be Indians…
Having gone to Punjab..I saw only few Sikhs there who were inclined towards education and you blame the the govt to that..its basically their family upbringing which led to their failures in life….
Most of the young Sikhs are really well for themselves….in India..so get out of the “victim” mentality and work hard….
Guys like Bhindranwale can never be role models for young Sikhs in India. He was a political puppet used by the congress to further their gains and just a insane individual who did not have any respect for the teachings of our Gurus. He will never be pardoned by the Sikhs in India for bringing weapons into Darbar Saheb, same way as Congress can never be pardoned for allowing a terrorist to continue to stock weapons in our holy shrine.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:43 pm
jusst shut up n go to hell , u talking from your ***
Singh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Well said MS.
And Nalwa, if you are not an Indian you surely talk like a “Canadian ” ….And if you are in US..then like USO said ” guys like you were responsible for September 11 attacks in their country in 2001″…and they do know where to draw a line on extremism.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 8:36 am
ter ma di fudi sala hindu gay
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Mr Manmohan Singh Never claimed he is a sikh- refer turban issue with France.
What is his achievement as sikh
JS Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 1:56 am
R u kidding me.!….. He is an institution in his own right…responsible for bringing India out of the debt problem…of 1990s…He is one of those few intellectuals who might not be the best politician….or the best administrator…..but he is one of those few individuals who is respected world wide for his solutions to economic problems.
With due respect President Obama too has shown high regard for his intellectual abilties.
And Dr. Manmohan Singh is an Indian first then a Sikh and he is the true disciple( the Sikh) .
All those who claim themselves to be Sikhs and talk about violence , religion, caste need a reality check ….what Sikhism stands for…..Equality, Brotherhood and Determination.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:55 am
Here we go another beggar who got to eat the bone for the first time and he is the happiest in da world talking about his work place far away from the real world , dammm come on doggy have some more
singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:51 am
looks like you bought the government propaganda hook line and sinker.
there have always been weapons in the golden temple complex. every evening you can view shastar (weapon) darshan at akal takht. it has been that way since the time of guru hargobind sahib. sikhs are soldiers from birth. without sikh “militants”, india would be a muslim nation today. the singhs in harimandir sahib weren't terrorists, they were defenders of our faith. the indian government had been systematically rounding up sikhs for years on trumped up charges. we faced torture, captivity, even murder at their hands, for nothing! they fear sikhs because we're warriors, lions. they fear we will take over india, so they murder us and make up lies in order to destroy our holy places. but no matter how they try, they will not destroy our faith or our spirit.
[Reply]
prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
I respect Sikhs and their culture, but Blue Star was a unique operation carried out for the first time in the world. Obviously mistakes were made by the army. But you cannot say that the intention was to kill innocents or to insult the religion. At that time Indian army was not mentally prepared to fight insurgents. They were trained for all out battle against another army using tanks etc. In hindsight it seems stupid, but at that time experts like us were not available. They did learn from their mistakes and subsequent operations great care was taken to protect the shrines. If the intention was to destroy and strike terror, the army chief could have used the airforce to drop one bomb and do the job in 5 minutes rather than getting their own soldiers killed.
The Indian army has a very large number of Sikh officers and Jawans. They have a gurudwara in every cantonment and in every sikh and punjab regiment. I am proud of our army because it is still an institution where religion does not mean hatred.
The only reason Bhindrawale was told by his masters in Pakistan to hide in Harmandir saheb, was a trick to force the GOI to attack the holy shrine and inflame Sikh sentiments.
They obviously succeeded.
kuldeeps Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:35 pm
There is no room for extremism. You guys started, Government finished it. Hindu or sikh or muslim, do not forget that if you yield guns, you will be dealt with. Just a matter of time, when.
[Reply]
Rahul Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:43 am
so you are justifying the killings of Bhagat Singh, Chandfer Shekhar Azad and all other Indian freedom fighters who were called extremists of Government of that time… wow…. Then proudly say that “ALL INDIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS WERE TERRORISTS”…
[Reply]
Rohit Lal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:36 pm
One more thing – your co-religionists in Canada – the ones who planned the Air India Kanishka bombing in 1985 that killed 329 passengers – have still not been brought to justice.
How come you missed mentioning that?
Thats because you have such a pinched up sense of your identity. You fail to see that India has moved on. We've got Sikhs in prominent positions – I will not name them – I have too much respect for them to hold them up as examples. But they are in the Government, in the Planning Commission, in the Armed Forces, in the Police, and in the bureaucracy. The Punjab Police Commissioner who eventually was instrumental in ending your insurgency in Punjab was a Sikh. Again, I will not name him.
But you – with your trumped up sense of grievance – will forever roam around like a cursed soul – hating India and Indians – because thats all that you have to live for. Go on – hate us. We've seen a lot of this before, and are ready for more.
[Reply]
bikramjit Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:36 pm
read the book soft target, u will get ur answer but ur indian govt. seem to scare so much frm truth and they ban tht book but dnt worry some versions r still available on internet,just try to find and u will get ur ans.
[Reply]
Manmeet Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:01 am
The fact remains that despite a large number of Sikhs in prominent positions in both the corporate world and the govt., some sikhs still have a loser mentality…becuase they could never achieve anything in life and therfore they blame the govt for all their ills.
Being a sikh myself,,,I have seen that specially among Sikhs in USA and Canada.
Guys like Bhindranwala are a dark spot in the history of Sikhs and some of them glorify him as Sant…they have a perverted view of the world unlike what Guru Granth Saheb preaches…
I as a sikh have got more opportunities despite being from a middle class background.That is what India is…..So stop blabbering ****… the Sikh extremists in US and Canada are being watched carefully by the pentagon….they would soon be brought to justice, for the crimes on humanity which they have done over the years.
What happened in 1984 was unfortunate…but its up to you to decide how you want to shape up your future… given that so many sikhs dorn the corporate board rooms back here in India…. and around the world…it can only be losers who talk with a “victim ” mentality.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:00 am
I dont know ur manmeet Singh or some guli ram or challi ram or raw agent but dear i think big LOOSER is u ,thts just trying to burst out ur frustration. btw wht u acheived tht u r saying other ppl, LOOSER? being an indian govt. agent u beleive tht u have achieved ur goal of life?lol
anyway ppl like u who doesnot wht they r ,can talk like tht just copy and paste their message again and again. and dont worry abt us tht US or Canada intelligence is watching, because in these countries ppl have right to express thmselves, they dont kill the innocent ppl in fake encounters, anyway tc and god bless u.
Agam Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:35 am
Bikramjit are you serious when you write this nonsense? I fail to see what is there in Bhindranwala that has any echo of Guru Nanak's Philosophy. This whole Bhinderanwala Brigade has its twins in every religion and every country. This bunch is the loser of history and will go to history's garbage. So if Sikhs in India are oppressed then what is wrong with the Sikhs Overseas. Why haven't they been able to produce from amongst themselves a single Sikh intellectual or Historian or Academic of any value. All they have been able to come out with are apologists of Bhindranwale and his likes. I have lived Canada long enough not to see a single institute/Gurudwara/Academy or call it what you may where any Discussion/Research/Thinking of the Sikh History & Theology of even a decent level is being done. Only in Punjab can one find some such institutions. Its is the result of the Hijacking of the Sikh faith by the Akalis and people like Bhindarnwala. You can live and believe in your thoughts and multiply your hatred for India as much as you wish. Its not going to make you a better Sikh nor a decent person.
Bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:18 am
Lol ,Agam Singh, hey wht r u trying to say?
I dont know where u lived in Canada and wht u have seen, u r talking abt sikh temples etc i can show u even some universities in US and Canada, where they have established chair on sikh history department and which also includes 1984 as well and where they have provide all the data with facts and refercences. some ppl all life live in a well and they call it whole world. u seem to one of thm anyway last month i was in glasgow university for my clinical rotation and even in their univesity academic library they have books abt 1984 ,which tells truth abt 1984 and mentality behind it,but i have doubt if ppl like u have enough courage to digest tht reality. SO ITS NOT MY FAULT ,THT IF U HAVE LIVED IN CANADA AND U HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING,LOL MAY B UR EYES WERE CLOSED OR MAY B U HAVE LOCKED WINDOWS OF UR BRAIN. AND MAY UR DEFINATION OF INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSION IS SOMETHING ELSE.
USO Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Dude,
Don't talk about US…you look like a typical Canadian.
We Americans are proud of our democratic institutions, but we do care if extremists like you and Shahzaad…create such issues in our country . And The dude, Manmeat is right…guys like you were responsible for the September 11 attacks in our country in 2001.
This country has freedom of speech to the extent that you do not harm our citizens..if you have such radical ideas ….go back to your own country and don't spread these religious bigotries in our country.
We open our country to people from all over the world but we also know how to kick ***….
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:37 pm
hey idiot get it right it was Muslims who attacked on 9/11 thus the war on afghanistan and iraq. i cant believe u claim to be fromt he U.S but yet u lack the intellegence to even know who attacked us on 9/11 so before you go on and say “guys like you” watch your mouth thank you and God Bless
Agam Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Bikramjit , you are a terribly brainwashed looser. There is no point in trying to argue with you and as for the Sikh Intellectuals in Glasgow, its general knowledge that there contribution to the Sikh Faith is negligible, They may have glorified Bhindranwale but that doesn't amount to Historical or Theological Research. Just as you are hate-filled fundamentalist Sikh, there are your Islamist brothers over there too who boast of the Academic Chairs they have procured in these same universities. You and your ilk can live in your illusory world But of course you can keep on celebrating your victim-hood. Your Sikh faith it seems starts and ends with 1984, as if the Sikh faith was non-existent before. And when the Brits get fed up of you hate-mongers then you can take your Sikh History department CHAIR with you, where you would go is an open question.
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Agam, i think u dont have even sense to understand something or may b tht things r beyong of urlevel to understand. Have i mentioned tht these book were written by sikhs author?
u raised some questions ,i answered thm and now ur just bursting out ur frustration.
u seem to b fully incharge of all religions. dont tell me where my faith start and where it finish because small hearted and narrow minded ppl dont have ability to understand it.
Rajvir singh sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 11:33 pm
why you get frustrated ?it seems you are the biggest fundamentalist, who even doesnot have any point of arguement. are you really have some knowledge?because it does not seem, because if you have any idea that how any dept. or chair established in higher class institutes or universities,wht r there procedure,than you never talk like that.
its not an establishment of indian elementry school .people like you can just scream and yell on high pitch,just to prove yourself true.please increase your level of knowledge to take part in any debate. don't just jump in blindly .this type of knowledge that you have. i don't think you guys can any effort for constructive or meaning ful debate. its just time wastage to reply you anymore. like to teach a mathematics to low iq student.good luck.
Agam Singh Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 1:52 am
and what have you said that doesn't smell of frustration and what is the procedure if you would please deign to educate for these chairs to be established. What sort of constructive and meaningful debate are you talking about, where in your comment is there anything remotely constructive and meaningful. You just retort back with a knee-jerk reaction and generalized nonsense.. At least mention the point that you want to discuss before prejudicing the discussion. You guys just won't admit that there was no religious conspiracy against the sikhs and the SIkh faith For 1984 Riots and the build-up to 1984. It was an engineered riot and there is no denying that, but it was purely political in its nature. It was political expediency and opportunism on part of the congress leaders. But to suggest that the Indian State was after the Sikhs is just fiction. The only religious angle was that it was Sikhs who got caught this time in the communally/religiously/caste motivated politics of India. It could have been Muslims as infact they were in Gujrat. It could have been Hindus as they were in the Kashmir Valley. It Could have been the Tribals living in Chattisgarh as infact they are being today. But when the whole effort is to try and turn the 1984 episode into a kind of clash of religions by saying that Sikhs are oppressed in India, it is pure nonsense. The people who subscribe to this view have ulterior motives as they are fully aware themselves and in doing so they do the greatest disservice to their own religion. Mr. Rajvir you can rejoice in your high mathematical I.Q by the way.
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:43 pm
how can you say it is fiction? please answer this for me then. how do you explain the members of congress buring new borns in Delhi 2. how do you explain the army burning alive sikhs as a mass murder scheme.? if you have answers to this then i will belive indian govt was not after sikhs. thank you and please do research before start posting. God Bless all
white man Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:34 am
one of stupiest brahmin dog . Where this pentagon comes in? America care for no one especially shit like u. America believes in Business. U have something to give then they will come or they say die and kill eachother ? u Know Divide and rule – u father use to suck british *****. Sikh is excellent religion better than stupid coward hindu religion full of brahmin shit. India is no land for hindus also- low caste hindus- they are treated terrible. brahmins enjoy freedom given by Sikhs .
AK Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:26 am
This is some nonsense person disguising himself a 'white' person and knows nothing about India's struggle against British.
Indian Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:50 am
Mr. White Man, its better to shut your mouth. Don't post any derogatory remarks about any religion (hindu, sikh etc.). We all are Indians and this is our only religion. What happened in 1984 was a past and something everybody in India and outside India would like to forget. It's like a black spot on Indian History which every person in India (belonging to any religion) would like to forget. Jai Hind
singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:42 am
are you joking? “everyone” wants to forget 1984? perhaps you've never met a sikh?
no, we're not all indians. there are sikhs all over the world who hate the indian government and the hindu mobs for what they did to us. forgive? maybe, when we get justice. and we WILL get justice, even if we have to take it by force.
mani Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 1:53 am
please kill thousands of people who call themselves hindus no matter where they belong really i m from tamilnadu and a hindu, was never involved in all so called riots, start from me, kill me get revenge, and end it, may be this the solution, but lets start talking about peace.
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:49 pm
killing you will do nothing for me. but putting those behind bars like Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar, now you are staring to talk. or maybe let a mob run into his house burn his daughters and kill his sons and then kill him would be just as satisfactory. but im not a violent person
may God bless you whether u are Hindu, the Sikh and every Indian
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm
i would agree to majority of your post and you are correct and i wish there were more people that thought like you. lets not divide ourselves with religion rather come together as INDIANS. but the part i disagree with is forgetting 1984. as sikhs it is very hard for us to forget and we wont forget for as long as there is a Sikh. as for the black spot on indian history you are darn right it was a dark spot in history for the indian govt. Genocide of a religion would be a dark spot on anyones history. thank you and God Bless
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 pm
i am Sikh my self and although i agree with what you are saying i do not agree with the language you use to express yourself. Please do not desecrate Hindus or Brahmins as we are all humans. Sikhs did do a majority of the freedom fighting against 1. the mughals 2. the British.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
Hahaahaaa you make me laugh ,you may or not be Sikh or you dont know who is your father but one thing is sure you are mentally disturbed and its waste of time to reply to you comment , the guy like you who is denouncing your own race is just sick and to be thrown in gutter
SIngh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Dude,
Unlike you, let me be very clear…on one thing….I am an Indian first then a Sikh or Hindu or Muslim.
And when it comes to terrorists like babbar khalsa, Khalistani blah blahs and bhindranwalas…they don't have any religion..they are mercenaries greedy for money and power.
And I pity you and your blown up ego…which is just crass communalism…. there is no difference between you, or the Al-Qaeda or for that matter Abhinav Bharat, RSS,Ku Klux Klan or other communal elements…
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:41 pm
its like you are king without ANY KINGDOM , you are indian not me so here we go DUDEEEEEE,you wont even dare to talk like that if we you tell me where you live cos i will break you in half DUDEEEEEEEEEEE,,if you are so proud then tell me the history of india ,,if you can then wow , but i can tell you there is none ,not one history from east to west , from north to south india dont have one history , like pakistan india become one country in 1947 , even till 1971 400 different princly state want to remain separate you idiot , just read history first
SIngh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Hence proved Prabhjot Singh Nalwa..is not an Indian….he is just another communal, sword wielding.. Taliban .. who packed his bags and is trying to move to Canada…to propogate his communal agenda……..
Either he has never enjoyed the freedom of being in a democratic country like India…..or he was taught Indian history in the Madrassas of Pakistan….where the likes of Shahzaad , taliban and Headley learnt their religion.
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:55 pm
First of all, shame on you, if you still call yourself singh.
By the way that is most of indians problem, when they don't have any proper answer for something then they start to scream, you are ****, you are taliban etc etc.whatever, why you guys get irritates when someone say truth?if india is really so democratic country, than why people from minorites are still fighting for justice from last 26years?why your democratic country does not punish the culprits ?why instead of punishing them, they are rewarding them with MP, and central ministers and other important seats?[tytler, sajjan kumar,kamal nath etc].
that is an indian govt. respect towards minorties?when someone take revenge from them, govt.hanged them in few months but why they can't punish to these culprits?
why people like kps gill, and other butcher police officers they don't punish, those killed thousands of innocent youngsters, seniors on the name of terrorism. they were not terrorist but they were just murdered to increased medals on shoulders.
why those poice officers not punished ,those killed innocent ppl from other communites[i.e hindu] and later on blamed on sikh militants.
all of ppl who call others talbanis. pakis or whtever, if any of your family member were tortured to 3rd degree and then murdered in fake encounters and culprits wud rewarded for tht. thn u wud also talk like tht?
rajvir singh sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:59 pm
if someone get justice peacefully and treated as an equal ,no one raise arms and no one like to seprate. instead of calling other talbanis etc. go into the root of the prb.
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:47 am
U idiotic dreamer of taliban or pakistan its nothing to do with us u born stupid KING , INDIA IS NOT FOR SIKHS AND WE NEVER CLASS US INDIANS . i guess ur mother dropped you on the floor when you was born , earlier i asked you a question wat is the history of india you moron, one suggestion for you go find your history of your family , i love to break you in half any time of the day
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:51 pm
oye ja oye ja tere vargey lakhan aaya te lakhan gaye
dont humiliate your self any further. rather educate your self
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:50 pm
chak de Fatte Veer ji God Bless- Guest
charanjit Singh Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 5:53 am
Manmeet Singh, although your name may sound very much Sikh but I m sure of the fact that u r an ardent supporter of the majority. when u mention it yourself thjat specially sikhs in canada and USA continue to blame the govt, while u maintain that its the unsuccesfiul lot amongst sikhs who do that. what an irony??
I agree with u that in India u will hardly find any sikh even remembereing 84, forget condemning it because the Hindu spectacles have blurred your vision.
I can only hope and pray that future sikh generations dont indulge in appeasing the majority just like the present one , u being a perfect example for that.
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Singh ji no one has forgotten 84 neither will we. but you are right lots of people in india have.
Proud Cdn Sikh Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 12:07 am
I am a Canadian born Sikh, I agree with the majority here that Manmeet needs to get a brain. However, I am not sure why it is being said that 1984 is forgotten. I recently came back from Punjab, spending most of my time in Amristar but I did travel around quite a bit. 1984 is DEFINATELY not forgotten nor is Bhindrawale or Khalistan. There are shops in and outside of Amritsar that openly sell Khalistan flags and other stuff. Bhindrawale's photo is everywhere – I dare anyone to say they can take a trip without seeing at least 5 autorickshaws with Bhindrawale's picture on it. One of my favourite memories was an autorickshaw with Bhindrawale's photos on the back and each side, the remainder of the autorickshaw had Khalistan flags painted all over it and actually flags hanging off every knook and crany the driver could fit one on – the driver was stopped in the middle of the road talking to a police officer and sharing a cup of tea. I was in total shock – everyone keeps saying Cdn Sikhs are keeping the Khalistan chanda waving but that is untrue – the chanda is also waving high in Punjab.
Lakersndbulls Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 4:20 am
Pity on you.let me answer you point by point.
PENTAGON—watched by pentagon???my brother pentagon is the headquarter of army matters not Internal agencies..like CIA,FBI,DHM or Special services who take care of intelligence.i don't know how people like you come here and comment on something you even don't know???
Secondly..At every function or procession where sikhs demand separate country American police give them security,,why??coz they know the truth who is who and who has done what…they don't rely on biased,half truth indian agencies which are so corrupt and has no independence left in their work..
US CONGRESS has described blue star and 1984 delhi as genocide even in 1984 session and
CANADian CONGRESS has passed a resolution against RIOTS and blue star in parliament..why???coz they knw the truth and are civilized countries…
Canadian court and a commission headed by a judge has cleared sikhs from KANISHKA bombing…why???coz their hearing is independent,open and fair..mr fake SINGH….
looks like you know alot about CANADA AND USA…lemme just add somethings to your knowledge SIR..
1-Canada refused VISAS to you many of the top serving officials of INDIAN ARMED FORCES…why???coz they know how they work and what they do with a common man and with minorities….
2-USA–refused visa to a current CHIEF MINISTER in INDIA called NARENDRA MODI…why????again like you say pentagon knows everything and they don't let the criminals come to their country but remember they GAVE ASYLUM TO THOUSANDS OF SIKHS..why asylum to sikhs but not a visa to MODI…again they know the truth..mr pentagon…
Now you said sikhs in prominent positions….SO WHAT…you seems like we begged for it and some kind INDIAN people gave us these positions as a pity….NO NO
We have earned it…Corporations are not govt owned,,they don't give positions based on religion,caste,region or sex…they give positions to the deserving ones..and if any sikh is at the top position,,he has earned it not bcoz indian govt recommended him or her…
You said you are a sikh yourself…sure…what do you about sikh history from 1708 to present…lets discuss it..and i can bet you even don't know 2% of it…there are always two type of people in every religion,country,caste….ONE WHOSE INTEGRITY IS DEAD AND ARE HAPPY TO GO WITH FLOW.
AND OTHER WHO NEVER LOST THEIR INTEGRITY AND FIGHT FOR THE HUSTICE AND AGAINST INJUSTICE TILL THEY BREATH….think and see where belong.
GURU GOBIND SINGH JI had no need of sacrificing his whole family and himself..he could easily have accepted MOGHAL'S blessing and as a king and had a happy luxurious life…..BUT U KNW HE WAS THE ONE WHO CREATED SECOND TYPE OF PEOPLE IN SIKHS…and im sure if ur a sikh,,ur frm delhi…
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:56 pm
wah wai wah ennu kinde aah Singh. In reply to this so called Manmeet Singh: Just recently why was Jagdish Tytler stopped from entering the United Kingdom????? Countries like the U.K, Canada and the United States can regonize the atrocities on Sikhs by the indian govt but yet so called Sikhs like you canot what a shame. oye gorey samj gayi Sikha naal kee hoya par tusi Sikh ho ke vi nai samj sake is vich sharm auni chai di aah saanu. God Bless
Hemant Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:55 am
Please read Tehelka report on Air India Kanishka bombing… you can easily do google search on it…. war of independence is a game of chess where India killed its own citizens alongwith Canadians to eliminate the Khalistan movement's financial support out there…. The people who murdered Indians during Indian independence movement were also Indians (yes they had British bosses) …. same happened now … Indian officers/agencies used its sikh agents to murder other Sikhs….its a history… please read it from a neutral point of view… What India did with Sikhs is worse then what British did with Indians… If you need proofs then check pics of sikhs boiled alive by India….
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USO Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Dude stop this conspiracy theory. Those religious fanatics in Canada were solely responsible for Kanishka Bombing.
Guys like you were responsible for the September 11 attacks in my country in 2001. No matter whether you are in US or Canada, we gonna find you and kick your ***…extremists like you are ruining our country…go back to your own country, you **** surd….
You need to go to a shrink to get yourself checked….for all the bull **** you are writing.
singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 5:45 am
i KNOW those “religious fanatics”, and they are completely innocent. as proved in court. the government of india and the RAW are present in every large sikh community in the west. they do their best to try to make us look like terrorists to our governments, but they cannot succeed.
SIngh is King Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Singhini,
Just a matter of time before India comes back to the UN security council!…And when I sat India..I talk about Indians ..not Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims,Christians… whether you belong to my community or any else….if you are an extremist who has been responsible for crimes in India, we are going to bring you to justice!…
Thats what a true Sikh is!
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 pm
sala justice da dictionary di kadde shakal dekhi aah? dont call your self singh please
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:01 pm
oye phudi deya since when did the United States become your country? you may reside there but it is not yours ganda anda. my country da lagda jago gorya ne kitta deport fe pata lagu kakka ji
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
and hey idiot read up on the air india bombing. why dont you do any research before making your self look stupid. both people were foud “not guilty” by canadian court. as a gora im sure u know what Not Guilty means right? or should i look that up for you too?
well from your recent posts im sure you are not suitable to do any knowledgeable research on you own so here it is. Not Guilty: declared not guilty of a specific offense or crime; legally blameless; “he stands acquitted on all charges
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Hanji ennu kinde aah Sikh. research kitte ah te apne aap nu inform kitta. Manmeet Singh i am sorry to say you are very dillusional and please change your name if it really is Singh because i am ashamed to refer to you as Singh. Singh ta hunde aah sher tu ta saalia chui vi nai haga God BLess
Jasmeet Singh Reply:
June 7th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Mr Lal,
I love India and I'm proud to be an Indian. I'm ashamed of the Kanishka bombing and would like to see a conviction. But at the same time, I cannot forget 1984 riots. Your language is demeaning and arrogant and does point to radicalization of your mind . You must realize that India is bigger than hindus, Indira Gandhi and congress party. A society that denies justice to its citizens cannot thrive. You're correct, India has moved on, but not those whose fathers/ brothers were buthchered in front of their eyes.
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Lakersndbulls Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 3:54 am
Canadian courts didn't charge anyone coz everything was based on lie presented by indian govt..even after the decision Canadian govt set up another inquiry commission headed by a FED Judge on request of Indian Govt…and that commission also rejected theory that any sikh was behind that bombing..and they questioned indian govt's motive behind the wrong info given by then to Canadian counterparts….
Look at your attitude and your thinking…you are saying “WE'VE GOT SIKHS IN PROMINENT POSITIONS”..wow..thank you sir…thats is the problem with you people, you think you are the biggest DANVEERS and whatever or anyone from minority is inferior to you but you still them good positions and rewards coz you are very justice loving people…whoever is on whatever position is coz of their hardwork,education and honesty..We are already Governors in CANADA AND USA not bcoz of ur kindness bcoz of our hardwork and dedication and loyalties to the countries which adopted us and let us grow without 1984,babri masjid or gujrat 02…
but again ur always right SIR!!!!!!
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The Rebirth Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 2:27 am
Hope you read what i had to say u bull *******!
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Ram Srinivasan Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Revenge was the order of the day. Operation Bluestar led to Indira Gandhi's assassination which in turn led to 84 riots.
But still this is no chicken-came-first-or-egg-came-first. Terrorist in Akal Takt must be justified explained by Sikhs.
Sikh gurus advocated fight, but not for self, fight for the weak. You must see the movie “A few good men”, sets up a right tone for how military should conduct itself, and what it should uphold.
BTW I was a computer teacher in PPS, Dashmesh Academy, and Holy Angels Rajpura between 1989 and 1992. I taught orphaned kids of 84 riots, it filled me with lot of saddness. However, what I couldn't understand Punjab was and is still the richest state in India. All the 5 year plan money was pumped into Punjab (Green Revolution). These orphaned kids obviously had rich relatives because fees at PPS I believe was around 20 lakhs per annum.
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Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:12 am
Here comes another one !! Punjab was rich because of the hard work done by the people. Kheti aise nahi hoti khoon passena bahana padta he. Y dont u start a green revolution in south.
Stop this non-sense.
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Ram Srinivasan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Don't be dumb, you need some serious history lessons. BTW south may not have had 'Green Revolution' but we had 'Chip Revolution', after strengthening the educational institutions and we are today IT savvy and command respect world wide.
Vijay Rajurs Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Mr.Jasmeet Singh,I dont know how old you are. You should not forget how whole heartedly the hindu community at large embraced the sikh and other punjabi bretheren from Pakistan soon after partition, provided all posible help in settling them in this country.All punjabis and sindhis were accepted into our society without any reservation even in states like Madras Presidency, Mharashtra, Bengal ,Madhya Pradesh. It was with the help and cooperation of hindus at large that the sikh community flourished and is one of the leading community in all walks of life. The 1984 aftermath was only a violent reaction to what the khalistanis did to their own bretheren and has been soon forgotten by the hindus. Unfortunately, even today I find anti hindu advertisements in gurudwaras of USA. One such ad I have seen and read in a gurudwara of Kansas City. It says boldly that the sikhs in India are still discriminated and persecuted which is a total lie. Please ask all gurudwara committes around the globe not to spread such baseless allegations
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Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:00 am
Vijay Rahurs- Before you say that the sikhs, sindhis were accepted here, you again need to read history to understand that you are thriving because of the sikh raj that thwarted the evil goal of converting the continent. the hindus thrived from thailand till afganistan and only because of sikh warriors you still are a hindu that got saved and still thrive in HINDUSTAN. read books written by Lala Daulat Rai and Allah yaar khan. you will realise how indebted you are. mind you there are written by non-sikhs and very respectable ones.
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Naipal Singh Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:52 am
Gaganjeet: Let me correct you sir, those warriors you are talkig about were the sons of Hindus. Each Hindu family was required to have at least one son who will take an oath to become a warrior (fighter) to fight against the expansion of muslims and against the forceable conversion of Hindus to islam. Sikhism was not even known as a religion at that time of the history,it was just a movement. The Pagri, Kada, Hair, Comb and Kacha were the safety gear and symbles to wore by a warrior to distinguish him from common person. Hair and Pagdi were to protect the head injuries, Comb and Kacha was for hygene, and the Kada was for identification. By the way your ancesters were all Hindus. Let me also tell you my friend about the Sikh's loyality. Sikhs were more loyal to the British than to the country. India would have got its independance in 1858 if the Sikhs have not sideded with British.
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:17 am
i think you didnt read what i wrote afterwards for some posts- let me paste it for you. you will get your answers-
the moment youcall yourself a Hindu you defy the great Vedas and Upanishads. follow the tenets of the sanatan dharma, you will become a sikh. it is just that the sanatan dharam got off track and started calling itself as hindu brought about the birth of sikkhism. when a person used to be ostracised his hairs used to be cut so that the entire society would banish him/her, sati was never practised, people used to believe in sharing and spenidng evening/ morning reciting the name of the LORD, etc, etc….. the Sanatan dharma was being polluted by the DHARAm gururs and these people created the castes and creeds so that their ROTI is always available. that's the reason the practise of LANGAR was initiated where in Emperor Akbar was asked to sit among the farmers and cobblers before he could have Guru Amardasji's darshan….lets grow as stated in one of the inputs here
Its just a blessing that whenever this civilization has come under threat it has found ways to protect itself. And this is the only reason we are the oldest of all, unlike the roman and others that got faded away. let me paste what i wrote above- The moment you call yourself a Hindu you defy the great Vedas and Upanishads. follow the tenets of the sanatan dharma, you will become a sikh. it is just that the sanatan dharam got off track and started calling itself as hindu brought about the birth of sikkhism. when a person used to be ostracised his hairs used to be cut so that the entire society would banish him/her, sati was never practised, people used to believe in sharing and spenidng evening/ morning reciting the name of the LORD, etc, etc….. the Sanatan dharma was being polluted by the DHARAm gururs and these people created the castes and creeds so that their ROTI is always available. that's the reason the practise of LANGAR was initiated where in Emperor Akbar was asked to sit among the farmers and cobblers before he could have Guru Amardasji's darshan….lets grow as stated in one of the inputs here
12 o'clock- this is what the Kashmiri's and hindus in the area used to say when their daughters and wifes were taken by the arabs for breeding 12 o'clock. this was a request to the brave sikhs to help them. that's the reason you have a Patel after your name. ask your ancestors- the brave sikhs used to fight and bring them back to the patels, guptas, pandits, etc, etc…. i hope your mother, daughteror wife been taken for breeding
. read- Lala Daulat Rai's book written a one and a half centuray ago to get an insight.
GAganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:19 am
12o'clock reply is nopt for u. buddy
I Quit Driving Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
All your “ancesters” (spelling) were monkeys! Just saying, if that is the logic you believe. Monkeys then evolved to Hindus, and some Hindus evolved to Sikhism. Well, I am just trying to understand and correlate to your thought process.
prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
I can never forget that day, my mother and her sister were driving in Delhi in a car driven by my Mama who is a Sikh. They were in danger, but our heart was in our mouth. We just kept praying. They killed my mama, but they spared the women.
My mamas children have grown up now, they are married to Hindu families. They are still sad and very hurt but they don't hate. They are successful due to their hard work. They were able to get good jobs after their shop was burnt and looted.
They still hate Khalistanis and all terrorists and they are proud to be Indians. One of them is an Army officer.
So please stop your mails which only promote hatred. Try to have a better attitude and work hard for your and your families happiness.
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What I never understood why the Sikhs got angry. You hide terrorists in your main Gurudwara and then expect no one to do anything? Stop all this pitying stuff. One thing leads to another. Lets look the the beginning not the end. The war was started by the Sikhs by giving them refuge within the complex.
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Rajesh Patel Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:56 pm
im afraid you are wrong… Yiour statement bears no weight whatsoever. If you study the issue in hand in great detail, u without doubt will question tne act teken by the indian government and indira gandhi. The sikhs philosphy is when all means fail sikh and any other human has the right to pick up arms.
If you study the history it was only a matter of time before the sikhs revolted, if should look at the promises made after 1947 to the sikhs non of the promises were fulfiled. Even if you look at the Anandpur Sahib resolution in there you will find the requests of the sikhs, the same sikhs that served the country more then the hindu majority (factual information).
Fiestly you point out Sikhs “terrorists” being in the Golden Temple, i have studies a number of Bhindranwales speeches and yes some of them are blunt but if you listen closely there is alot of sense being made, due to propganda and government contolled media even the most of innocent will never be portrayed in the true light. Bhindranwale in his speeeches pointed out, the sikhs are never to attack and innocent, poiliceman or any of the armed forces, UNLESS they enter the golden temple, even if they shoot from outside you do not shoot back, these orders and comands can be found in many scholors works.
It also shows if the government was not doing anything wrong why was there a media black out, and also why where 35 other sikh temples attacked were there 35 bhindranwale in those sikh temples, this does bare the question. We must not just look at what the news tells us, why not study into it yourself or make the effort to do so.
Because i think if you are commenting on sensitives issues as this one, and you have not done you research, you should really have the right to comment, as you should ask the sikhs mother sons father and daughters of those that are no longer here how they feel.
Im sure they would have a difference in opinion
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Ash Singh Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Do you understand history? Look at the history of mankind. think how revolt ever started anywhere in the world? think if you have brain….
Mugul declared them terrorist in 17-18 century….Do you know why and why they put price on their head? then British empire declared then terrorist. in 1947 same british empire advise them to have their own country…but Nehru, patel and Gandhi promised big time…Have you look at the punjab before partition and punjab now…why between 1947 to 1955 most of the sikh top military officer died in an accident..
Do you understand why there are more dera's in punjab than number of villiages. How nirankari, radaswami, Ashutosh and all other missions started in punjab and prospering in punjab and from where the funding is coming from…why india law still saying that sikhs are hindu.Do you understand the event between 1947 to 1980 that led to all the deaths. Does it means that all that bloodshed was Killing for fun or killing because they supressed.What action was taken when Nirankari's with police and Government support killed 13 sikh before 1984. Some communities don't react, even if they were suppressed for 1000 years and their daughter were picked and Sold at will. But some react..
Posting comment is the easiest thing to do…
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Vishal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:13 pm
you still have not answered to jbull.
Citing history is no justification for the ******* terrorists in a place or worship. YOU get a brain!
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Ranjit Kumar Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
“Some communities don't react, even if they were suppressed for 1000 years and their daughter were picked and Sold at will. But some react…” Sorry to regret, brother I am a hindu but a sikh as well. I regularly go to sikh temples to offer prayers. I do not agree with your stupid statement(sorry). Sikhism was born out of suppression of Hindus. Had India not been under foreigners, History could have been different(U understand, what i mean) You can not deny this fact that 1st guru was born Hindu and this suppression resulted in new faith 'Sikhs'. Don't live like pigeons, who turn their eyes blind when they see cat. Try to understand what history was and what is being preached.
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J.S. Chauhan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:27 am
I can't believe I have to explain you this…wonder if you are old enough to understand it as well, u asked for it..here u go:
Guru Nanak Dev was born a Hindu, all of his followers were born Hindus! Generations later you are trying to say Hindus are not brave…read over this phrase if you missed the point! It does not matter how many times you scream and type the fact remains your seed is of a Hindu “may be few years old or few hundred years old” and that's the bottom line here, keep it in your mind before you type anything against Hindus as you would be insulting only yourself and your elders. There is no doubt when an innocent is killed it is shameful…what happened in Delhi in 84 was shameful and will remain shameful and since our own people did this to our own brothers (and I mean real brothers…remember the background, one brother went on to become a Sikh to fight and other remained at home to help the family make the ends meet..Doesn’t mean he was not brave, he might have tried hard to join as well) however what those militants did was also shameful and will remain shameful (and don't even try to defend them).
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KHORANA Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Why do TERRORISM is allowed in the temple.what was state police/C.B.I. doing when this thingh was happening.Bhindrawalan was the creation of CONGRESS.What was GOVT doing when innocents SIKHS were killed in DELHI & WHOLE of INDIA , AFTER TEH ASSISINATION OF Mrs gandhi.Operation blue star could have been better planned the way OPEARTION THUNDER WAS DONE.
A religious & a simple SIKH was hurt for attack on GOLDEN TEMPLE & KILLING OF innocents people there.Killing of innocents HINDUS was , in my opinion was planned by I.S.I. The Muslims can behave as a SIKH ,as they speak much better PUNJABI.The present GOVT. did do a lot by not attacking the PAK after 26/11,nor moved the forces on borderas. VAJPAI JI had done
Terrorism , weather a SIKH, or a HINDU is bad for the society. Even as alleged in the article MRS GANDHI was also clueless after theattack.What was the fault of a innocent SIKH ,killed after the assasination of MRS GANDHI.Shri Guruteg Bahadur sahib had sacrificed his life to save HINDUS from Oregzeb.Who was converting HINDUS forcefully into MUSLIMS religion.So a oridinary & PEACEFULL SIKH all over world was hurt when GOLDENTEMPLE was attacked ,leading to all that…… & finelly, a land slide victory for CONGRESS in LOK SABHA, followed bya anti defection BILL, for preventing the M.P.from deection to other PARTIES.So this is all politics, but a dirty POLITICS, which should not have been played with GOLDEN TEMPLE.
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PANKAJ VOHRA SELF CONGRATULATORY unnecessary opening old wounds- not a word of sympathy for 1000 jawnas offciers killed- not a word that khalistanis are traitors terrorists- claiming to be sikhs- khalistanis many PAKIS isi agents in disguise still today-utter nonsense from self righteous journo. –
X MAJ COUNTER INTELLIGENCE. 1984..
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Manmohan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:30 am
VERY well said, X Maj.
Pankaj Vohra was an a******e to open up old wounds.
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Sikh militancy ended because Jatt Sikhs found it was no longer in their economic interests to persist with agitation.
As the land of the five rivers gets drier and the effects of over cultiation of an exhuatsed soil become more apparent; the Jatt Sikh will agitate again.
This phenomena is already happening…60m plus bore holes are failing and there is not a street in Punjab where the image of Sant Bhindawale is not displayed…history always repeats itself.
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Supinder Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
correction ..my name is not Hemant Patel…my above message was a quote from Hemant Patel.
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Tarun Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:21 pm
Jo bole so Nihaal SSA saat sri aakaaal
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upkar singh gill Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:18 pm
I really dont know what you have been smoking lately ,who is telling you that bhindrawala images are every where ,bhindrawala was a looser what did he do in the name of religion kill people i was there in punjab i have seen it happen in front of me.
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Supinder Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 pm
I don't smoke and i visit punjab 3 or 4 times a years. There are posters/images/decals of Sant Bhindranwale all over punjab – on trinkets, icons, car/motorbike stickers.
Read the following – Times of India (03/06/10) interwiew with Ishar Singh 'Bhindranwale stickers still adorn cars in the crowded lanes of Jalandhar and youth sport T-shirts with his face embossed on them.'
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Jiya Lal Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 am
Yeah so what ? Who cares ? THe country is confident and sure footed. You can even write the name of Bhaindrawala as your father on govt papers.There is no ban on it either. Many of his family members are alive but who cares. There is no ban on it either.That bloody coward who had to take refuge in a temple thinking that he will live forever. If butchers like him are your heroes so be it be prapared to meet his fate too.
Supinder Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:29 am
The point is that there is an official ban on propagating the image of Sant Bhindrawale in Punjab, a ban that is prolifically waived (whats the point of having a law if its not enforced).
Sant Bhindrawales image and speeches are widely circulated and recited in Punjab. The youth revere him. No politician in Punjab would slight/insult Sant Bhindrawale [this goes for congress, bjp and akali dal]; he'e become a very powerful icon indeed.
Oneindia Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:05 am
u know why is that bro… because u live in a free country, a democracy where u can express things the way u want. count ur blessings. can u imagine such things in pakistan or afganistan… its a mad world outside.. a hateful one…. u are living a free life… thank your god for that.
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:44 am
the court has ordered after 26 to prosecute sajjan kumar what a free society ha……….., be sure that the judgement will be prounced to his grandchildren what a free society ha ha ha
Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:40 am
Wow… really.. what a free country…. which murdered hundereds of thousands of Sikhs in fake encounters… do google on 25,000 un-identified dead bodies whom India murdered and secretely cremated just in three cremation grounds in Punjab … what India might have done in other 100s of cremation grounds…If you were born in British India then I am sure you were going to praise them a lot louder because they did not do these mass killings….
Supinder Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 1:22 am
Yes i thank Ganesh once every morning and toast his health with a freshly steamed cup of cow piss. Ja Hind!
Naipal Singh Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:46 am
Supinder: You refer Bhinderwale a Sant, shows the caliber of your intellegence. Do you really know the meaning of Sant. It is a Hindi or Punjabi version o the englih word Saint and I dont have to tell yuo what it means. Just come on man ” sant bhinderwale” what a joke?
Supinder Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 am
The above article refers to Sant Bhindrawale as a a Sant, the SGPC (the SIkh Vactican) cannonised Bhindrawale in 2003. Simples!
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:04 am
R u really GILL?SHAME SHAME ON U, IF UR GILL AND SAYING ALL THE STUFF. BUT ANYWAY FRM PPL LIKE U,WHT ELSE CAN WE EXPECT, U R THE ONE FRM KPS GILL BUTCHER TREE.
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SS Gill Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:11 am
And what about you ? Why not shame on you for glorifying those bloody maneater terrorists. KPS gill did his job and country is proud of him. And you are from that gunda Bhindrawale's tree ?
Supinder Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:19 am
No-ones proud of KPS Gill. He's a convicted sex offender and was implicated in the murder of the Human Rights activist Khlara. Not to mention what he's done with the once mighty Indian Hockey Team.
Its hard to justify the actions of KPS Gill (the butcher of Punjab) even Khushwant Singh's stopped trying.
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:21 am
Oh really? by killing more thn 50,000 innocent youngsters in fake encounters and by 3rd torturing thm?by killing human rights chailrman .Mr.Khalra?yea ofcourse he did his job.i accept mr. s.s. gill. he really did his job .
btw the ppl i am supporting they never support for innocent killings, media make alot of stories to defame thm but truth is really hard to digest thts why tht truth revaling books and cds r ban in an india.
Mr.S.S. Gill ,i think instead of telling me to shame, i think u shud look on urself and see whom ur supporting , a killer and a rapist[even in Mrs. Deol] he was convicted as well. anyway Mr. S.S. Gill take care of urself and pray to god tht he would give you some courage that you can digest some truth .
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:21 am
What is the difference between Aurangzeb and KPS Gill. Both have the butcher of Sikhs
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:37 am
Why not glorified the incidence with Rupan Deol Bajaj, can you be ashmed as a gill.
Naipal Singh Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:33 am
Mr. Sandhu: Whatelse you think Bhinderwale represented. He was nothing but a unpadh gawanr and represented nothing but violence. In the end he got what he deserved. He brought bad name to sikh community. Sikhs have never known how it feels to be a minority.. They always enjoyed a special status Now they don't anymore. Thanks to Bhindertwale and people like you.
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:01 am
Really, they were enjoying special status???wow thank you Mr.Tomar that you have opened my eyes. i know all that was just fake stories, that punjab has divided more into haryana, himachal etc. there water has given to all states. 18 sikhs were murdered during peaceful protest and their killer got vvip security and even he didnot spent 1 night in a jail.if you don't know what i am talking about than i should let you know its about nirankari incident.
after 2 years ppl those did massacre in 84 are enjoying MP status and central minister status and from last 2 years even they didnot punish even 1 main culprit. thts right,sikhs are really enjoying special staus. Thank you again Naipal singh tomar for eye opener comment.
Rajvir Singh Sandhu Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:03 am
above by mistake i typed wip,please read it as V.I.P or Z plus security
bikramjit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:35 am
Lol so this is how much u r sensinble Mr.Tomar.
so thts ur defination of sensible person?
I wud also like to add in Rajvir comment tht gandhi and company also promised that they have broken ,just after they got freedom. all tht were part of special status of sikhs.
abhinav goel Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:51 am
hey can u explain the nirankari incident!!!
what happened there???
i want 2 know
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:15 am
pan the yar ,upkar do u know who is your father damm what a shame on you.
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Oneindia Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:16 am
So what you are suggesting is that an agitation will be in the best interests of jatt sikhs.. wow.. are u outta ur mind.. do some constructive talk here… please.. that would be in the best interest of everyone.
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Oneindia Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:21 am
wrong things happened back then. but now what u r suggesting is wrong as well. and two wrongs never make make one right. we all need to be proressive in our thoughts if we wish to become a prosperous and a superpower country.
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Singh6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:43 am
Attack on Golden Temple is such a crime which can NOT be forgiven…. This terrorist country will surely face justice….
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Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:22 am
you must be a sad chura who could not get to achieve successes in life and want to have a war with us jats come on then churya
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singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
ITYM sikh militancy went underground because Jatt “sikhs” gave up their sikhi, cut off their kes, went back to drinking and drugging, just like before bhinderanwale inspired them.
a pity, but not surprising.
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Pankaj
Nothing is over. The betrayal and treachery of cunning Hindu leadership, and media will never be forgotten. Sikhs will NEVER rest till they are free. This is only a short term satisfaction to Hindus that by committing genocide of the Sikhs and by huge disinformation which continues ( including in this article) that the problem has been solved. Sikhs will never rest till they are sovereignty and have brought all the criminals and their offspring to justice. Our struggle has just started.
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NYC Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:13 am
Gary Singh , if you are in US , Kiss my ***….
and if you are a punjabi migrant to Canada… you will still keep kissing US ***…..
Your struggle would come to an end…when we US citizens decide to kick you extremists out of our country…. bloody ****….dogs…guys like you were responsible for september 11.
We can forgive but never forget.. what you guys did in our country…. we gonna smoke you out from your holes….. you rats…
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India is conglomerate of different nations, originally brought together by British for administrative purposes and now being held together by Nazi Hindu fascists by military might. Entire northwest , want to be free, Maoists are struggling to be free from Nazi Hindu Brahmin bania hegemony, The Sikhs will never be content till they can gain political and military power, Kashmiris want to be independent. Operation Blue Star was a death knell for Hindu fascist gang. The time is not far off when India will break in to many pieces because of its contradictions. No matter how much Indian media lies-Truth shall ultimately triumph.
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ana Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:38 pm
please use nuclear bombs and blow up the planet earth and end all religions please please please.no hindus no sikhs no muslims, people like me can not take it any longer please kill each other and just end human life, we are worst than animals.
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kuldeeps Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Who the hell is this Singh? Are you a true Sikh? Our Gurus gave up their lives to protect the integrity and lives of people and freedom and this great country, and you are wishing ill on our county thAt it will disintegrate into million pieces? If you don't like it here, move to Canada or US and stay there. My country does'nt need you. PeOple like you give bad name to our Panth. And what truth? Jarnail singh was a terrorist, so is Ajmal Kasab. They deserve the same fate, so stop with this communal mindset.
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Rahul Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:51 am
oh really… so you mean Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, and all those Indian freedom fighters were also terrorists because they used GUNs against the established country of their time….
Regarding Guru gave up their lives…. read Mughal's boiled Sikhs alive as well as INDIA…. Mughal cut the bones of Sikhs as well as INDIA…. read … please read…. enter 'Gurdev Singh Debu' in the internet and see …..
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Rohit Lal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Singh – if that is really your name – dream on….or build your freakin Khalistan in the US, UK, or Canada…
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ub Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Majority of sikhs do not believe in your nonsense ideology. Hindus and Sikhs evolved from the same root…… All the negative comments from the so called sikhs are from US or Canada. You abandoned your country long time ago…so stay there and forget India.
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Zaazaa Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Your comment made me vomit on the screen.
Are you on drugs from Afghanistan? If not you are an ISI agent using this name to post anti-India comments.
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Sucha Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
You are a Porki. Sikhs and Hindus are brothers and sisters born from the same womb. Operation Blue Star is water under the bridge necessary because of a few misguided individuals.
We are happy to marry and live with each other with due respect for each others culture and religion. Hindus have helped in the growth of Sikh religion and the people. Sikhs have put their lives on the line for India.
Dream on ****!!!!
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There is no room for extremism. You guys started, Government finished it. Hindu or sikh or muslim, do not forget that if you yield guns, you will be dealt with. Just a matter of time, when.
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Rajesh Patel Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:54 pm
im afraid you are wrong… Yiour statement bears no weight whatsoever. If you study the issue in hand in great detail, u without doubt will question tne act teken by the indian government and indira gandhi. The sikhs philosphy is when all means fail sikh and any other human has the right to pick up arms.
If you study the history it was only a matter of time before the sikhs revolted, if should look at the promises made after 1947 to the sikhs non of the promises were fulfiled. Even if you look at the Anandpur Sahib resolution in there you will find the requests of the sikhs, the same sikhs that served the country more then the hindu majority (factual information).
Fiestly you point out Sikhs “terrorists” being in the Golden Temple, i have studies a number of Bhindranwales speeches and yes some of them are blunt but if you listen closely there is alot of sense being made, due to propganda and government contolled media even the most of innocent will never be portrayed in the true light. Bhindranwale in his speeeches pointed out, the sikhs are never to attack and innocent, poiliceman or any of the armed forces, UNLESS they enter the golden temple, even if they shoot from outside you do not shoot back, these orders and comands can be found in many scholors works.
It also shows if the government was not doing anything wrong why was there a media black out, and also why where 35 other sikh temples attacked were there 35 bhindranwale in those sikh temples, this does bare the question. We must not just look at what the news tells us, why not study into it yourself or make the effort to do so.
Because i think if you are commenting on sensitives issues as this one, and you have not done you research, you should really have the right to comment, as you should ask the sikhs mother sons father and daughters of those that are no longer here how they feel.
Im sure they would have a difference in opinion.
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singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
standing up for equal rights, for human rights, is not extremism.
read the human rights watch report on human rights violations in punjab. maybe then you'll understand what we're fighting for.
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Militancy has never died in Punjab.
There has not been a year since 1947 that Punjab has not burned because of some communal dispute. Punjab burnt 3 times last year and suffered severe rail/road disruption (sevaral buses burnt cf. Dera Sucha Saund/Ravi Dasis'). Punjab will never be at peace in the current status quo.
I would not suggest that the primary focus of Sikh-hindoo communal conflict in Punjab is faith; but I would subscribe to Vandana Shiva's view that conflict is primarily an economic one for the control of finite resources.
If one were to take religion out of the equation and view the situation as one of class conflict (as Vandana Shiva's thesis on the conflict in Punjab with reference to the Green Revolution attempted to do). Shiva's thesis is based on the postulate that Punjabi hindoos are predominately city based bourgeoisie; whereas the Sikhs (especially the influentially Jats) are predominately rural farmers.
Whenever there is an ecological scarcity (I.e. water shortages, land disputes, interstate riparian disputes); there is a class conflict between the city dwellers and the rural land owners (viz a viz who has primacy over these resources); – because of the religious make up of these 2 classes, ecological scarcity gets interpreted as religious; thus fueling religious conflict.
As Punjab's water table gets even lower (decadal (1993 – 2003) drop of 8.2m); the Jatts (who economically have the most to lose) will start to claim primacy over finite resources, this translates into Sikh chauvinism and the agitation for Khalistan will grow.
Fred Pearce (author of 'when the rivers runs dry' and editor of the 'New Scientist periodical) comments on the devastating ecological situation in the Punjab, making it “…one of the most water stressed regions on the planet”; the unregulated use of cheap Japanese bore hole motors to exploit the epoch old Punjab aquifer on the Doaba plain is nothing short of a disaster. In a quest for cheap food stuffs to feed a billion odd populace, the center along with the tacit approval of Akali politicians has sold Punjab down the river (sic); Punjab formally known as the sub-continent's 'breadbasket' will have a new moniker – the sub-continent's 'basketcase'.
Therefore, Shiva's contention is that unless these ecological problems are dealt with in the Punjab; religious strife will grow. Alas, i would suggest that it is far too late and far too many vested ineterests involved in order to avert such a scenario.
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Rohit Lal Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:27 pm
This is ridiculous.
The whole of mankind suffers from scarcity of resources. There are water issues in most parts of the planet – even the developed nations are recognizing this.
But that does not mean that people should or will start demanding separate countries over scarce resources. If one were to follow this logic, then even the Tamils, Maharashtrians, Biharis, and every other community, sub-caste, sub-sub-caste, and so on, should fight for their separate country – why only the Sikhs?
If Punjab's farmers are mismanaging the water table and poisoning the soil by over use of fertilizers, is that a reason to start an agitation for a new country?
And even if they try it – they know that its been tried before – and they know what followed. India is ready for N number of such agitations and insurgencies. The Maoists are only the latest iteration – never mind all the recent havoc they have caused.
Let them go ahead and try – at their own risk.
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Supinder Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:37 pm
There are many places in the world in world which are water stressed; the point about Punjab is that it is the most water stressed region on the planet (NASA's 2009 GRACE mission produced an water stress image showing the Punjab, Haryana and Delhi regions to be depleted their millienia old aquifers at the fastest rate of any region on the earth).
Punjab's lack of Industry (the center bans all SEZ set ups in Punjab …apart from Mohali); means the Jatt Sikh is dependent entirely upon the agro business (the decline of the once great Ludhiana's bicycles and parts and sewing machines industry because of the center's regressive taxation that offers tax breaks to SEZs in Gurgaon is another case in point that has contributed to an actually de-industrialisation of Punjab viz a viz another comparable state such as Haryrana – 12.3% against 15.2%.)
The largest input into the Punjabi economy is not infrastructure funding but remittances from aboard. These economic factors has lead to the following phenomena:-
1.) A glut of educated and unemployed Punjabi youth
2.) Dwindling land holding (via familiar division of land) leading to a commensurate reduction in resource per capita
3.) Major push drivers encouraging Punjabi youth to emigrate aboard (in the main illeagally)
4.) A dramatic rise in populist Khalistani ideology and a cult of personality around Sant Bhindrawale (I asscerted previously that images of the Sant are commonplace in Punjab)
It is not a question of whether such a phenomena are right or wrong …i would assert that due to the economic pressures in Punjab the rise of Khalistani militancy is inevitable.
If such conditions exist in Tamil Nadu, Maharashtria, Bihar etc then I would expect to see a similar speartist tendancy there aswell.
I suspect that India will be engaged in perpetual internal firefighting in the next five years.
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Sucha Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:07 am
Separatist movements will achieve what? Change the popular perception of Punjabi youth that the pasture is greener in countries like US, Canada, Australia etc? Change the dwindling land holdings? Increase water flow or water reserves?
I would have thought that people working overseas is good for the economy. Look at the remittances being sent to India. People are able to afford a lot more. If they had stayed in India what would they achieved in particular? I am not saying there are no success stories but it is easier to accumulate wealth faster in western countries for almost everyone prepared to work hard. And, many Indians do return home after making enough.
Supinder Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:44 am
Separatist movements want have a few universal codas:
1.) Right to control their finite ecological capital
2.) To differentiate themselves from the 'other' (in the Sikh specific case to prevent 'rashtriya ekta'….is signified by “the denial of difference through surrender, assimilation and integration”)
(Prof. John Gray, Thoughts on Politics, Religion and the Meaning of life, 2010 – LSE lecture)
You can apply these codas to all separitist movements,e.g. Naxalites, Nagas, Kashmiris, etc.
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:01 am
Vijay Rahurs- Before you say that the sikhs, sindhis were accepted here, you again need to read history to understand that you are thriving because of the sikh raj that thwarted the evil goal of converting the continent. the hindus thrived from thailand till afganistan and only because of sikh warriors you still are a hindu that got saved and still thrive in HINDUSTAN. read books written by Lala Daulat Rai and Allah yaar khan. you will realise how indebted you are. mind you there are written by non-sikhs and very respectable ones.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:24 am
Gagan Jeet.
Do u really know history???
I am a hindu Jat and we gave away so many sons to Sikhism to fight. Jat is same be it sikh or hindu. Jats were brave and very open hearted and open minded people. That y we dont had this sati and other social evils. They would never insult others. Whats wrong with u guys.
Sikhs were great but others like marathas and rajput also had many great warriors. Sikhs alone didnt and couldnt fight muslims.
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:31 am
There is no question of fighting a muslim. dont create this divide. you need to reread the history. And my response was to some fanatic above. dont be proud to be a Jat and i am to a Jat from a royal family. dont teach me what a Jat has done and what a Ravidasia has done. the KRANTI which Baba Ravidas, Baba Kabir, Baba Farid brought is on the same lines as discussed by the Gurus in Sikkhism. go to the essence and reread history and read the books i recommended. truly insightful
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:52 am
u said “because of sikh warriors you still are a hindu that got saved and still thrive in HINDUSTAN” what u mean by this. Kindly elaborate
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:13 am
Absolutely. Its just a blessing that whenever this civilization has come under threat it has found ways to protect itself. And this is the only reason we are the oldest of all, unlike the roman and others that got faded away. let me paste what i wrote above- The moment you call yourself a Hindu you defy the great Vedas and Upanishads. follow the tenets of the sanatan dharma, you will become a sikh. it is just that the sanatan dharam got off track and started calling itself as hindu brought about the birth of sikkhism. when a person used to be ostracised his hairs used to be cut so that the entire society would banish him/her, sati was never practised, people used to believe in sharing and spenidng evening/ morning reciting the name of the LORD, etc, etc….. the Sanatan dharma was being polluted by the DHARAm gururs and these people created the castes and creeds so that their ROTI is always available. that's the reason the practise of LANGAR was initiated where in Emperor Akbar was asked to sit among the farmers and cobblers before he could have Guru Amardasji's darshan….lets grow as stated in one of the inputs here
Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:32 am
TO ADD, sikkhism is also going the same way- tons of fanatic, SGPC just bent on taking aontrol of Golakh- DAN PETI, horrible leaders and 99% of corrupt DHARAM GURUS. again a revival is needed or it is just happening the silent way. time will speak…..
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:06 am
Yes, If u use sikhs as “follow the tenets of the sanatan dharma, you will become a sikh”
per this definition than yes. I know sikhs means a leaner. Thats y I was saying earlier that hindu sikh we all are the same. We shouldnt play in the hands of these fundamentalist.
Hindusim isnt our word. Hinduism is a way of living. This word is given to us by foreigners.
Moreover in true sense sikhism isnt a religion like islam or christanity.
Thanks for elaborating.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:07 am
Ealiers some pandits misguided and expolited us and now these fundamentalists are misguiding us.
We shouldnt repeat our mistakes.
I Quit Driving Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:36 am
You need to have a good read: http://www.laladaulatrai.com/c...
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:54 am
Y shouldnt i proud to be jat. We all should proud of our roots. I am a proud indian jat.
I am proud of my country too.
Amrit Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:46 am
Jatt hindu? ru joking or you live next to jatt sikh house. you know what I mean.
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:53 am
No I dont know what u mean. Please explain
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:13 pm
lol no offense but i found that to be weird as well Jat but hindu. well im glad to meet you my Jat hindu brother. May God bless all please do not label each other with religion.
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:12 pm
you are right, not alone but majority of who fought Mughals were Sikhs
JK Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:39 am
Cut the ****..it was you guys and those sons of a ***** Akali leaders..responsible for the mess Punjab is in today…Giving subsisdies to Jatt farmers was never required..the poor farmers in punjab got poorer…. thanks to these…Punjab is a bankrupt state… jatt Sikhs were responsible for creating division among Sikhs in Punjab…whereas the Guru Granth Saheb talks about all men are equal..those Jat budhis were responsible for so many sects coming up in Punjab thanks to their discrimination..
When in 1990s the IT revolution could start in Mohali, those ******* Jatt farmers ruling punjab refused to go for it…finally it ended in banagalore…My dad was part of the meeting..where this occurred…you had lost the race for industrialization long back when you elected the uneducated Jatt farmers called Akali dal as your state representatives…..
Let me tell you one thing clearly…about the Punjab govts wheteher it was Akali Dal or congress…” Sikhaan nu Larna aanda hai Raj karna nahin aanda”…They lack the skills for good governance…..( I think you might have heard this among educated SIkhs quite often,)….
Supinder Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 1:11 am
Punjab has been technically bankrupt for several years now – it has been running a deficit; as have Haryrana, U.P., Delhi and several other states/union territories.
These 'uneducated' Jatt farmers (under the leadership of Pratap Singh Kairon) pioneered the green revolution, rapidly industrialised urban conurbations, established the world famous PAU and managed to produce enough food stuffs for the country that India became a net exporter of food in 1967 (Rice) for the first time since its inception. All this was carried out not with monies from the center but from remittances brought in by relatives (the purchasing of tractors, etc.).
Punjab through the 60s and 70s and even 80s was the most industrialised state in India. The center took direct rule of Punjab (presidents rule) in the mid-80s and a policy of tacit de-industrialisation took root. Badal & Co have been trying to reverse thus with the draining of the Mohali swamps and the creation of a SEZ.
Jaat Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:31 am
Do u know what is a Jat??
Ek ulte hath ka jat ka lag gaya to pajame me peesab kar dega
Lakersndbulls Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 3:46 am
No its sikh's fault..who fought with afghans to free your sisters.wives and rewarded with joke like “sikho k 12 baj gaye”..
its fault of sikhs who gave 95% of the total sacrifices for the freedom fight even though they were 1% of the population at that time..
it was fault of sikhs who choose India over independent nation(mountbaten was ready) and over MOhd A Zinah's proposal of autonomous state within Pakistan..Sikhs believe Nehru & Gandhi(son's of chankeya) that stay with India and whenever you feel you need autonomous state,we will give it you(A FACT..SPEECH BY NEHRU IN 1946).
And first reward they got in 1947 for their loyalty was “sikhs are a criminal tribe”.WOW
It was sikh's fault that they still fought with full heart in 1947 Kashmir invasion.1962 China war,1965,71 PAK wars.and got most bravery medals than any other regiment.
It was sikhs fault that they brought green revolution by working their *** off and be a bread basket of India and later left alone for suicides.
It was sikh's fault that they spoke loudly against Indira's emergency(wow in the biggest democracy) and to teach Akalis a lesson Indira created Bhindrawala and let him grow as a power to weaken Akali party.Then he was demonized bcoz to become a hero you need to kill a villian.so a villian was created and Durga(indira) was ready to kill him and become a goddess and win the next year election.because the so called majority always bring those people in power who kill minorities in India.for e.g…Shiv Sena in Maharastra after they killed muslims,,Congress after they Killed sikhs in 1984,Narendra Modi(whom usa denied a visa,wht a shame) in Gujrat after killing muslims.
Its sikh's fault that sikhs even after all this humiliation breath for India and end militancy(remember KPS GILL and all his colleagues and Punjab Police are Sikhs themselves too)your supercop KPS Gill said in a article that 1984 blue star should never been happened,their was ways to avoid it..A LT.GEN Sinha quit in 1984 because he said this is insane and avoidable but was neglected and remember he was not a sikh….During blue star there was no media only door darshan, a govt controlled channel.
it was sikh's fault that bhindrawala was freed after a arrest to let him do what he was doing(wrong according to govt).once you arrest a person whom you think is a threat to national security you don't release him..if you do then you have motive behind that..
When you people talk about usa,canada..let me tell you..go to usa congress record and see what senators and congressmen said there..they said it was a shame and a genocide well planned by the indian govt..
Its sikh's fault that they keep fighting for India in Kargil,Assam,Nagaland,Kashmir,Arunachal and everywhere india need them.
Its sikh's fault when they ask for a federal system like usa with more powers to states they are called separatist and terrorists and when RAJ THACKREY says we might need a separate Maharastra,nobody even speak about that forget about arresting him or calling him a terrorist..
when SHIV SENA beat and kill other Indians nobody called them terrorists or send army to kill and stop those goons…???DEMOCRACY…ONLY FOR MAJORITY
NObody call them terrorist who BURN CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES AND THEIR KIDS ALIVE and damage churches???wow..TWO SEPARATE LAWS…
And Civilized countries like CANADA,AMERICA r refusing visas to indian citizen related to forces coz they know what are they doing and how much democratic india is???
NOONE CALLED RAJIV GANDHI a TRAITOR who let ANDERSON go for some bribe in millions???
ITS ALL OUR FAULT OF MINORITIES AND YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT …..SIR!!!!
[Reply]
An Indian.. Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Well keep considering yrself as a minority though hindus never have considered sikhs as minority. They have been brothers and sisters living together in times of peace. Read the above comments, one feels disgusted. Operation bluestar is a black mark on our society. N there are such occurances for both the communities throughout history. We should keep our hearts clean unless we only want violence n hatred. Unity betweeen sikhs nad the hindus can be and is often quoted as an example of communal harmony..
'Peace'
Guest Reply:
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:09 pm
you are preaching to the deaf my friend. they will not understand not matter what facts you present them with .
To those sikhs or porkis disguised as sikhs ,
The stories of your victimhood are questionable. You tried to terrorise India into submission and committed terrible atrocities on hindus living in Punjab. Sikh militants targetted politicians, judges, police officers and media people to break the nerve centres of the state. No matter how many denials and most outrageous conspiracy thoeries the sikh protagonists float even they know the truth in thier hearts of heart. From 1977 til 1984 tens of thousands of hindus were driven out of their homes, thousands were massacred mercilessly including childern and women.HIndus were dragged from buses and trains segregated and than shot dead. Was there any reaction in rest of India against sikhs ? No. Even the sikhs who opposed these activites were killed. How long one can tolerate this non sense. When the nervecentre of sikh militants were attacked at Golden Temple in june 1984 there was an outrage as if sikh militants had birth right to use it as safe sanctuary and kill people. It was utterly shameful for the sikh body guards to kill the lady they were supposed to protect. I never liked her style of working but she was and is revered by millions. Sikhs went into jubiliation and were distributing sweets in chandni chowk when the public said it is enough. Now the sikhs want the same govt that they had debilitated to come to their rescue against the public rage. Had sikh body gaurds not killed Indira Gandhi and not followed up this with celebration these riots would have never happened. Neither the state nor the public will keep on tolerating non sense. Thats the message.
Now those who say all the sikh militants were killed in encounters or jailed why those who staged riots aginast innocent sikhs should walk free ? Right with read following
Here is what Sikh militants did to avenge the riots and Operation Bluestar :
General Vadiya was gunned down in Pune
Lalit Makan was killed in New Delhi
Hundred of transistor bombs were planted in New Dlehi by Babbar Khalsa that killed scores of pople
Police Officers in Punjab along with thier families have been burnt alive
Planed were hijacked
Kanishka was blown-up killing 329 pessengers. The bombs were placed from Canada and only one sikh militant , Inderjit Ryat, was convicted while 2 terrorist Ripudaman Singh malik and Ajaib Singh Bagri, were aquitted as the CSIS mistakenly destroyed the evidence against them.
So you did what you could do while keeping your self safe than why u behaving like cry babies ??? and why seek justice frm law when you were first to break it ?
Neither India nor hindus are at anyone's mercy. Maintaining peace is everyone's responsibilty. Give respect and be respected. Don't hurl threats.
[Reply]
JK Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:24 am
Don't talk about atrocites on Hindus in Punjab…these Khalistani ********…were responsbile for terrorising their own Sikh Brethrens and sisters……in Punjab.
These Khalistani ******** will be crucified in the same place where they are spreading hate…in US and Canada….US and Canadian intelligence is looking at these internal extremists for the first time with non biased eyes. I think your Indian govt is doing a good job with sharing intelligence with our agencies in US and Canada. As a matter of fact I remember your PM himself cautioned the Canadian PM to rein in the pro Khalistani elements in Canada.
A majority of them are uneducated migrants from Punjab who neither have the brains nor the talent to take up opportunities given to them in India. Those who have utilised these opportunities..have risen to the top positions in both corporate India and the govt too.
[Reply]
Manmohan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:23 am
Manmeet – Did you read SS Gill's note properly, and understand it before you responded to it??????
[Reply]
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:50 pm
pan da yar just tell me where you live i come and tere bund marni , i **** your whole family
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SIngh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Well said Manmeet Singh….
And Nalwa…since you like to **** everybody and everybody's family..its hence proved:
You are a “dick” head….
.
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm
My question to both sikhs- Singh is King and Prabhjot singh Nalwa- this is not the language of the sikhs. mind your tounage
vikram Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:34 am
loooserrrrrrr…you are jus another hindu who licks muslim dicks n now see what barking….kuton ki jaban lag gaye ..lolz funny
[Reply]
Manmohan Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:22 am
Vikram – did you read SS Gill's note properly????????
[Reply]
Napal S Tomar Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:02 am
Vikram:
The truth hurts, isn't it?
[Reply]
aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:19 am
the killers of innocents hindus (person) killed by the security forces, anyone can counts. Can anyone counts the killers of innocent sikhs (person) killed or prosecuted by the security forces or by the law.
[Reply]
Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 10:33 am
SS gill chura
[Reply]
singhni Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
sikhs targeted politicians, judges, and police officers who were guilty of rape, murder, torture, and other crimes, but could not be brought to justice any other way due to corruption in the system.
sikh “militants” did not murder innocents. there are two groups who killed innocents. one, people who looked like sikhs but did not follow sikhi (drunks, druggies, etc), who were in it for fame or money. two, black cat commandos… indian agents disguised as sikhs, trying to make us look bad.
there's no proof that sikhs bombed any plane. we wouldn't, it's against the very tenets of our faith to kill innocents. it's not above the baman indian government though. read “soft target” to see how RAW has infultrated the Canadian intelligence agency.
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SIKHS ARE GOOD PEOPLE,HISTORICALLY THEY NEVER CONSIDERED THEMSELVES ANY ONE ELSE BUT PART OF THE FABRIC OF WITHIN THE FOLD OF LARGER FAMILY OF HINDUISM.WHEN THEY DEVLOPED THIS IDEA OF SEPERATEISM IS DIFFICULT TO SAY,THEY DID THAT IS A FACT,I GREW UP WITH SO MANY SIKHS IN SCHOOL,AND PROFESSIONAL COLLEGE IT COUGHT ME BY SURPRISE THE VEAMENCE OF THE VIOLENCE,YES PAKISTAN WAS PART OF IT,THEY WANTED REFENGEFOR EAST PAKISTAN,IF THE EAST PAKISTAN REFUGEE PROBLEM WAS MANAGABLE,INDERA WOULD NOT HAVE ACTED,THAT IS WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE,BUT I'M NOT SURE IF KHALISTAN AGITATION WILL NO REVIVE,IF INDIA IS VIEWED AS WEAK BY FRIENDS AND FOE ALIKE,THE PONDORA BOX WILLOPEN,LIKE MAOIST PROBLEM.BUT THE LEADERSHIP IN NEW DELHI GOES FROM ONE CRISIS TO NEXT WITHOUT ANY CLUE,THIS MUDDLING THROUGH EACH CRISIS WILL ONE DAY END BADLY FOR ALL.THAT IS MY REAL FEAR,THERE IS NO WISE LEADERSHIP IN THE HORIZON.,WHO CAN CHECK THE SHIPWRECK IN TIME.LAWNESS,CORRUPTION,MONEY TALKS,B–L SH– WALKS,IS THE MANTRA OF THE DAY.CHIOS REIGNS SUPREME.THE KILLING OF SIKHS AFTER ASSACINATION WAS HORRIBLE,SO WAS THE WANTON ACTS OF ORDINARI BUS RIDERS,IT WAS DISGUSTING,I HOPE THIS IS BEHIND EVERY ONE SIKHS AND HINDUS /INDIANS ALIKE.TOO MANY SMALL COUNTRY IS NO GOOD FOR ANY ONE,IT IS A SURE RECEPE FOR DISASTER,IF IT IS WHAT IS IN STORE,THEN IT WILL COME TO PASS,BUT IT WILL NOT BE PRETTY FOR ANY ONE.MIND IT ,IT HAS BEEN SAID.
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pankaj Vohra is sick jounalist
why people want to start up a controverial issues
why not let people live in peace
Journalism is becoming prostituation, finding new things to attact people all the them , dnt care its relevant for not at today point of time
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The genesis of Sikh alienation is in the way Sikhs are perceived and treated by the Hindu_India. India is unwilling to grant Sikhs a separate Religion status because Hindus do not want it. In 1947 Sikhs almost joined Pakistan, but for the connivance of Hindus and lack of foresight on part of the Muslim League leaders.
I have yet to come across a Hindu who considers Sikhs as an equal. Hindus have a sublime derisive and sometimes openly pejorative attitude towards Sikhs. This in my view is irksome and in many ways fuels the alienation. Hindu_India perceives Sikhs as somewhat less Culturally, Intellectually and Spiritually. This mindset leads to all other actual, perceived and supposed biases in dealings between Sikhs and Hindu-India.
Why was it so easy for Indira Gandhi to order operation Bluestar? I am sure there were other ways to flush out the militants from the holiest Sikh Shrine. Why did Indira Gandhi choose a Sikh Brigadier to lead the assault on Harminder saheb? Apparently to show that it is not a religious war, but in essence it was done to further humiliate Sikhs. Why was it so easy for the Hindus to go on frenzied rampage and kill Sikhs in droves following the assassination of Indira Gandhi? It is all in how Sikhs are perceived by the upper echelons of the Hindu-India. It is always easier to kill someone who is less and of lesser status. That is how the Hindu Leadership considered Sikhs, who then led the hordes of Hindus to kill, burn Sikhs alive and carry out the genocide that is to date still is unprecedented in the Modern History. Why India elevated those Hindu leaders who participated in mass killing of Sikhs? These Hindu leaders immediately became the warrior leaders and were exalted and revered by most Hindus. 26 years later not even a single Hindu or a Hindu leader has been punished for the most outrageous acts of violence and vengeance. The reason, the genesis is in that Hindu_India perceives Sikhs children of “Lesser God”.
Sikh Militancy subsided because they were once again betrayed by a political leader in Pakistan because Rajiv Gandhi had promised a solution to the intractable Kashmir issue if Pakistan helped in suppressing Sikh Militancy. Pakistan's political leadership provided Indian intelligence the whereabouts of Sikh leadership and they were eliminated by KPS Gill's death squads.
Thousands of Sikhs have left India for good despite the fact that they may be economically well off, however, today in India, Sikhs do not have the Dignity, Honor and Freedom that Hindu_India enjoys. Sikhs in India are 2nd class citizens. They can not even demand justice for the three days of genocide in 1984. They are scared to even criticize leaders like Kamal Nath in India because of the fears of reprisal and backlash from Hindu_India.
Sikh desire for Dignity, Honor and Freedom has subsided, it has not been extinguished.
[Reply]
Zaazaa Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Lagman urf Naveed Khan aka Khan you have been posting anti-India and anti Hindu comments in HT since last many months. In one of the comment you threatened to wipe off Hindus. From your past and present comments it is very clear that you are an agent of ISI out to create differences in India. I will advice you to take care of Ahmadies who have been persecuted with sanction from Pakistan constitution and Mullahs. There are banners stating Ahmadies are “Wajib ul Qatal” (Koran as well as Pakistani constitution permits killing of Ahmadis) all over Lahore, right under the authorities noses which are causing blood shed.
[Reply]
Laghman afghani Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 3:21 am
I am anti-India and definitely not Anti_Hindu. I want fair and dignified tratment for Minorities in India.
[Reply]
Dhamender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:45 am
U better learn history and take care of ur own fricken land. Sikhs are made out of Hindus. And almost 50% or them are jats. I myself is a hindu jat. We are same idiot. We have sikh as prime minister??
Yes there are some illetrate brahmins and other south Indians who dont know the history like u and say these funny things. SIkhs are and were always part of us. Discrimination by some idiots will always be there. Some people consider us jats and rude,illietrate and whatever but that make no difference to me. The reason is we used to live in villages and our occupation is mainly agriculture. I dont care for these few idiots like u and wont blame the whole country or hindus for that.
I am very proud of being jat and so are sikhs. Noone can make u feel inferior without ur consent. Its same as some metro people consider villagers as illetrate and rude.
Who give a damn?
[Reply]
Laghman afghani Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 3:24 am
It is obvious that you do care! I am just explaining the reason of just injustice with Sikhs. They are fighting for Dignity and Honor and are unable to get it because Hindus consider Sikhs inferior and therfore they are denied justice.
[Reply]
an_indian Reply:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:31 am
Naveed Khan,
I told you not to try and spit up towards the sky…you will be spitting on yourself…still you are a moron who keeps on spitting on himself.
You are nothing but absolutly mad and dont know what to do when you see India progressing and your own people in pakisran and afghanistan living in stone age fighting in the name of religion.
Whats your problem??? why do you hate hindus???
Do you want to say that all 900 million followers of hinduism are monsters and killing machines?????
Every time you end up saying that…this proves that you are nothing more than a religious fanatic who doesnt have anything else to do in life than just hate other people who dont not follow his religion and who do not beleive in what he believes…Right Naveed khan???
You dont have any moral or intellectual right to be on a forum when you are nothing but a brain washed religious fanatic who is only alive on earth to hate and spread hatered against others (people belonging to other religions) …I pity your upbringing and i pity your wife and children …..what sort of twisted and paranoid upbringing you might have given to your son !!!!
You are an unwanted burden on the face of the Earth…people like you are very dangerous to the society and world peace !!!
You people live and die for your religion like dumb oxymorons and you people are the fanatics who dont want to live themselves and neither want others to live happily.
The kind of religious extreamism you harbour and show in your writings is absolutetly condemnable…you people should be hounded like mad dogs and kept away in mental asylums for the good of the society and peace loving people.
You need Electroconvulsive Therapy for your paranoia…or you will soon end up with Paranoid Schizophrenia !!!
You are showing classical features of paranoid schizophrenia….you are getting hallucinations…you think that whole world is mad and full of monsters except you and your friends like the Pakistani millitants and the Talibanis.
You see for yourself….you sympathize with the pakistani millitants and the Talibanis..!!! and you think that the average indian (hindu) citizen is a conniving monster ready to kill everybody !!!
You have lost it man…you really need to see a psychiatrist if you genuinely believe what you have been writing !!!
But it could be a different case too …. you might be a talibani or pakistani millitia who has taken upon the task of spreading communal hatered and extreamist ideology through the web platform….How much do they ( Taliban or ISI ) pay you Naveed khan?????
Do not play with fire Naveed Khan…you are in San Jose and i think Both Taliban and the other extreamist millitant outfits are considered illegal in the USA.
And you are not a social activist or crusader of social justice as you pretend to be…you are just an imposter and a Big Liar….you keep on planting false stories and half truths to try to insigate communal sentiments.
First try not to get caught while you are lying…try to be a little smart while you put forward balant lies…i think your bosses failed to tell you that we Indians are not as fool as you afghanis or pakistanis.
I'll put forward some glaring examples of your balant lies in your own words…
(This is what you had written on the HT forum about a month ago…claiming again and again that you dont have any knowledge or interest about pakistan or its internal issues and you dont discuss anything about pakistan))
I am not a Pakistani so my knowledge of Pakistan is very limited, I never comment on issues that I do not know about. I will never comment on Pakistan's internal issues because I do not know much about them.
First of all I am not a Pakistani and have very little knowledge of what happens there.
You seem to be very concerned about Pakistan and Bangladesh, I am not! Why should I be?
Never again tell me how Pakistan should fix their problems? It is another debate, and discuss with Pakistanis. I am not Pakistani and therefore would never participate in that debate.
I am not a Pakistani so I am least concerned about your accusations about Pakistan
when I am not a Pakistani and I know very little about that country.
I am not Pakistani and I do not care what happens in that country.
Also, I am not a Pakistani and therfore unaware of issues in that country. So stop wasting your time about Pakistan.
(And now this is what you have been writing in the pakistani news websites…very clearly showing that you have deep interest and knowledge about pakistan and its internal issues !!!! )
http://pakistanlink.org/Opinion/2009/Apr09/10/0...
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/vf/backissu/pakh...
http://www.thenews.com.pk/blog/blog_details.asp...
http://pakistanlink.org/Opinion/2009/Jan09/16/0...
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=...
Now Mr. Naveed khan…What kind of a compulsive Liar you are?????
you said that your knowlegde of pakistan and its internal issues is very limited and you do not comment about pakistan's internal issues !!!!!
Then how come you have been commenting and writing so much about the internal issues of pakistan on the pakistani news websites ????????????????????????
You are very well versed about pakistan and its internal issues and you have deep interest in pakistan and its affairs….Dont lie and dont try to think that you can get on with your lies without being caught and exposed !!!!!
First try to be truthful about yourself on this forum and then talk about truth and justice…you are nothing but a religious fanatic who wants to corrupt this forum with his lies and twisted facts !!!!
Shame on you LIAR !!!!!
an_indian Reply:
June 7th, 2010 at 2:42 am
Naveed Khan,
I told you not to try and spit up towards the sky…you will be spitting on yourself…still you are a moron who keeps on spitting on himself.
You are nothing but absolutly mad and dont know what to do when you see India progressing and your own people in pakisran and afghanistan living in stone age fighting in the name of religion.
Whats your problem??? why do you hate hindus???
Do you want to say that all 900 million followers of hinduism are monsters and killing machines?????
Every time you end up saying that…this proves that you are nothing more than a religious fanatic who doesnt have anything else to do in life than just hate other people who dont not follow his religion and who do not beleive in what he believes…Right Naveed khan???
You dont have any moral or intellectual right to be on a forum when you are nothing but a brain washed religious fanatic who is only alive on earth to hate and spread hatered against others (people belonging to other religions) …I pity your upbringing and i pity your wife and children …..what sort of twisted and paranoid upbringing you might have given to your son !!!!
You are an unwanted burden on the face of the Earth…people like you are very dangerous to the society and world peace !!!
You people live and die for your religion like dumb oxymorons and you people are the fanatics who dont want to live themselves and neither want others to live happily.
The kind of religious extreamism you harbour and show in your writings is absolutetly condemnable…you people should be hounded like mad dogs and kept away in mental asylums for the good of the society and peace loving people.
You need Electroconvulsive Therapy for your paranoia…or you will soon end up with Paranoid Schizophrenia !!!
You are showing classical features of paranoid schizophrenia….you are getting hallucinations…you think that whole world is mad and full of monsters except you and your friends like the Pakistani millitants and the Talibanis.
You see for yourself….you sympathize with the pakistani millitants and the Talibanis..!!! and you think that the average indian (hindu) citizen is a conniving monster ready to kill everybody !!!
You have lost it man…you really need to see a psychiatrist if you genuinely believe what you have been writing !!!
But it could be a different case too …. you might be a talibani or pakistani millitia who has taken upon the task of spreading communal hatered and extreamist ideology through the web platform….How much do they ( Taliban or ISI ) pay you Naveed khan?????
Do not play with fire Naveed Khan…you are in San Jose and i think Both Taliban and the other extreamist millitant outfits are considered illegal in the USA.
And you are not a social activist or crusader of social justice as you pretend to be…you are just an imposter and a Big Liar….you keep on planting false stories and half truths to try to insigate communal sentiments.
First try not to get caught while you are lying…try to be a little smart while you put forward balant lies…i think your bosses failed to tell you that we Indians are not as fool as you afghanis or pakistanis.
This article is tottaly corrupt and biased as an indian govt.
he mentioned that it starts on june 6 but in reality it starts on June 3rd.
i want to ask an indian govt. if they say they did tht operation to flush out tht militants frm golden temple, THN SAME TIME WHY THEY DID ATTACK ON 34 MORE GURDWARAS IN DIFFERENT PARTs OF PUNJAB.
I am sorry to say that time also indian media was working for indian govt. and after 26yeas today as well. they dont want tht truth wud come out because tht will open indian government real goal. if indian govt. was so true abt their action, thn why they did ban foriegn media ,even to enter in punjab and that ban was continue for a decade. only 1 person BBC reporter mark tully was allow because he works for indian govt. and his daughter marry to an indian army officer.
minorties dont have their own media thats why indian govt. propagate ppl as they want. they can make gandhi hero, sikhs as terrorist.
[Reply]
Dharmender Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 12:51 am
Brother dont play in the hand of politicians. They still work on divide and rule policies. The riots were done by congress men and a few idiots. Dont think all india is against u. We are with u but also dont raise arms and kill innocents. There are better ways to work around.
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ppl like` gandhi and nehru as heroes and ppl those were actually brought a freedom [sikhs,those r 2% part of an indian population and 87% freedom fighters were punjabis], call thm as terrorist.
[Reply]
I like what Mr Vohra says towards the end- “What happened in the eighties is something all of us would want to forget with the prayer that nothing like this ever occurs again.” One wonders whether the almost effortless Maoist rampage in some states of central India can be equated with the militancy problem in punjab in the eighties. With Naxalists deploying terror against civilian and military targets to negotiate talks on multiple fronts, one wonders whether the demon has risen again
[Reply]
Whatever India Gandhi did in 84 was bad. She brought Shame to our country.
India owe a lot A LOT to Sikhs.
[Reply]
The genesis of Sikh alienation is in the way Sikhs are perceived and treated by the Hindu_India. India is unwilling to grant Sikhs a separate Religion status because Hindus do not want it. In 1947 Sikhs almost joined Pakistan, but for the connivance of Hindus and lack of foresight on part of the Muslim League leaders.
I have yet to come across a Hindu who considers Sikhs as an equal. Hindus have a sublime derisive and sometimes openly pejorative attitude towards Sikhs. This in my view is irksome and in many ways fuels the alienation. Hindu_India perceives Sikhs as somewhat less Culturally, Intellectually and Spiritually. This mindset leads to all other actual, perceived and supposed biases in dealings between Sikhs and Hindu-India.
Why was it so easy for Indira Gandhi to order operation Bluestar? I am sure there were other ways to flush out the militants from the holiest Sikh Shrine. Why did Indira Gandhi choose a Sikh Brigadier to lead the assault on Harminder saheb? Apparently to show that it is not a religious war, but in essence it was done to further humiliate Sikhs. Why was it so easy for the Hindus to go on frenzied rampage and kill Sikhs in droves following the assassination of Indira Gandhi? It is all in how Sikhs are perceived by the upper echelons of the Hindu-India. It is always easier to kill someone who is less and of lesser status. That is how the Hindu Leadership considered Sikhs, who then led the hordes of Hindus to kill, burn Sikhs alive and carry out the genocide that is to date still is unprecedented in the Modern History. Why India elevated those Hindu leaders who participated in mass killing of Sikhs? These Hindu leaders immediately became the warrior leaders and were exalted and revered by most Hindus. 26 years later not even a single Hindu or a Hindu leader has been punished for the most outrageous acts of violence and vengeance. The reason, the genesis is in that Hindu_India perceives Sikhs children of “Lesser God”.
Sikh Militancy subsided because they were once again betrayed by a political leader in Pakistan because Rajiv Gandhi had promised a solution to the intractable Kashmir issue if Pakistan helped in suppressing Sikh Militancy. Pakistan's political leadership provided Indian intelligence the whereabouts of Sikh leadership and they were eliminated by KPS Gill's death squads.
Thousands of Sikhs have left India for good despite the fact that they may be economically well off, however, today in India, Sikhs do not have the Dignity, Honor and Freedom that Hindu_India enjoys. Sikhs in India are 2nd class citizens. They can not even demand justice for the three days of genocide in 1984. They are scared to even criticize leaders like Kamal Nath in India because of the fears of reprisal and backlash from Hindu_India.
Sikh desire for Dignity, Honor and Freedom has subsided, it has not been extinguished.
[Reply]
SIngh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Dude.
Seems you belong to pre 1990s era…Sikhs not only enjoy Dignity, Freedom and Honor…. they are being given equal opportunties.
But those opportunities have been given to those who really worked hard for it….. and thats the case with every Indian…the Indian economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world just because…of these Indians..not just Hindus, Sikhs, or Muslims..( Narayan Murthy,Ambanis, Malvinder singh, Amarjit singh, Azim premji, LN Mittal)……. we don't care about which religion we belong to …we care about just the country we are working for…..We are Indians..period….
The only religion we follow is that of “One God..One World”..we are not here to avenge some prior mishaps which happened to our religion we are here to create a country..where everyone creates opportunities for each other……
We are the “Young India”.
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Dear editior thats not fair,when someone write some truth and i know truth is always bitter and u delete that post. if u want neutral opnion and healthy debate thn plz allow everyone to post, unless some one has swear or abuse.
thnk u
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VljaL0UOG-E&play...
check this out
victims were not just hindus
sikhs were equally victimised by islam
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what indra did was wrong so bhindrawala we need to foregive best way is pray that's god job to punish because he gave u sence of wrong and wright but what u choose u know what u doing so is god because we think he is very far cann't see us they don't under stand he is watching us so is Nank and krshan said jesa karam krega vesa fal dega baghwan Karmi apo apni ke nede ke dur
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we know Mumbai has been the Gateway of India for commercial exploitation by Europeans for several centuries. But Punjab has been Gate way of wealth and human exploitation by Mughals over thousand years. Sikhism was founded to counter this threat, drawn from Hindu community when there was nothing like Indian Army as of now. Independent India depended largely on this force to recruit persons for defence services expecting they are the best among the lot to protect our country. On the contrary many of them turned Terrorists for seeking vested interests. Tis became unbearable to polity in those years. A military operation on temple/church/mosque/gurudwara is a serious crime, but there was no other go. Rest is history, but the story continues-the end of the story coincides with the end of Indra Gandhi dynasty in Indian politics.
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Yes U should MR.JATAN not forget a terrtorist ,who planted the BOMB? Why was he allowed to plot the BOMB.It is all politics..dirty POLITICS.U should also not forget SHRI GURUTEG BAHADUR SAHIB ,WHO SACRIFICED his life for HINDUSISM,a seculiar society.Hate the terrorist & terrorism.Not a turbonator.Even abroad they are hating SIKHS the turbonators , because the ALLQUADIES have got the turbons &beard.Moreove GURU GOBIND SINGH JI , asked his father when he was 9 years old to go to save secular INDIA,& then all his SONS & himself.We SIKHS dont hate HINDUS & Hinduism..SIKH religion is born taking good thinghs from HINDUS & MUSLIMS religion.One should not forget it was a MUSLIM SAINT MIYAN MEER who laid the foundation stone of GOLDEN TEMPLE.I as a SIKH will like to ask why did SHRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI & SHRI TEG BAHADUR SAHIB , if they meet me ,today why did they sacrifice their lives for a secular INDIA,LET EVERY BODY , BE allowed to be converted to MUSLIMS.Then there would have been no problem with INDIA & INDIANS.Again the fight in between be that of SHIYAS & SUNNIES. The state terrorism is bad.It is the duty of GOVT to protect citizens from terrorism.I was shocked to know that simultaniously when GOLDEN TEMPLE was attacked ,35 Gurdawaras were raided also.
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i totally agree with mr. upkar singh no one has the right to go in the golden temple and hide with weapons what happened in 80's was the killing of young sikhs for what? we should be proud we come from the land of happiness and sacrifice the land of bhagat singh and we should be proud that we are indians i live in australia but iam very proud that iam an indian and a sikh . guys always remember its always politics and power at the end thats what we to learnt from history
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rohit i read ur comment and totally agree with you its time to move on and to look for the future mate its always politics thats what we have to understand no one wants to fight no one especially one with the family.
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“What happened in the eighties is something all of us would want to forget with the prayer”
Oh no dear. This will be remembered for all times to come. As piece of a sad part of the history and mother of all set ups. It was stupid on your part as well, if you think Sikhs will curse themselves for associating with Bhindrawale. Who was in touch with government on daily basis, and infect was encouraged to keep the tuff stand. Many who took him to this dramatic height, and to fall, became ministers for all times to come !
You need some names ?
You want some details on real designation of Mr Gurmit Singh Ajnala ? who has been paid for his services to encourage militants. Sukha Sipahee ? even Surinder Singh Sodhi ? and —–
You think, in this time and age you can fool intelligent Indians.
Satyameva Jayate
Think again
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i was reading all the comments and getting bit upset that youngsters like us are still talking about revenge but after reading mr. manmeets comment i am happy that we as a sikh and as an indian do something better for the society and for our families atleast our families should be proud of us
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Sikhism is most respected religion and followed by mass Hindu's also. I am not Sikh but I go to Gurudwara regularly and peace of mind I get is amazing.
Contribution to India by Sikh Community is what makes them amazing. Bad things happen, but today our PM makes us proud. He makes every Indian proud.
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I just don't understand. Why are you arguing with the Sikhs from US and Canada. You CANNOT win an argument with them. They are on internet 24X7. Notice if you write anything, a reply will be posted within minutes. These particular type of sikhs are amongst the least assimilated in their adopted society. They live a wretched life and internet is their only and true contact with outside world.
Dont get drawn into an arguement with them, they know all of them because that all they do. They also have strong fraternity on internet where they go by the rule” Ek ne Kahi , Dooje ne Mani, Nanak kahi Dono Gyani”
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Sad, Sad, Sad – that Indians consider theselves modern/advanced etc. and are still fighting amongnst themselves on relegious grounds – idiotic. Grow up. There will always be bad elements in all societies, they must be isolated and eliminated in accordance with the proper and eguitable laws of governance – again Grow up. This is not about Hindus or Sikhs; are you Indians and care about India and want to see terrorism eliminated, civil order maintained and live in harmony with each other- again Grow up. Do not live in the past work together for a better future for all Indians – Grow up, please~
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Come June 6,and old wounds would be scratched again and again.I think efforts must be made by the intelligentia to some how help in the healing process rather than raking up the unfortunate events again and again.
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Punjab has been and is a wonderful place. The days of militancy are over which is a very good thing. Lots of innocent people died and suffered during the 80's and early 90's. I was there as a teenager at that time living in a village in Ropar district.
What I want to say is, its not relevant to say Bhindranwala was a saint or a terrorist. Those days are gone and lets forget them. Lets move forward. When I go back to Punjab all I see is selfishness and corruption everywhere. Kids in the villages dont want to go to school. Lets wake up and make our villages a priority and make sure kids go to school and get educated. This will help them get jobs and support there families. If everyone had a job no one will ever become a terrorist. Punjab will grow economically if our kids go to school and get educated, and are able to support themselves, find jobs and start companies. Adopt a village in Punjab….support the poor families.
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SIngh is King Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Sunny,
Great thought! Punjab can only grow if the people are educated….even these separatist elements can not do anything..
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Yet we find in recent newspaper that some people are arrested and plans exposed. Is it still dormant especially in Pak and Canada? Our intelligence agencies and general public in Punjab should be very vigilant as antisocial elements, external forces and unscrupulous politicians may try to use this tool to achieve their unholy motives.
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12 o' clock
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Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:57 am
this is what the Kashmiri's and hindus in the area used to say when their daughters and wifes were taken by the arabs for breeding 12 o'clock. this was a request to the brave sikhs to help them. that's the reason you have a Patel after your name. ask your ancestors- the brave sikhs used to fight and bring them back to the patels, guptas, pandits, etc, etc…. i hope your mother, daughteror wife been taken for breeding
. read- Lala Daulat Rai's book written a one and a half centuray ago to get an insight.
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Mohan Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:00 am
Hemant! You said right 12 O'clock. You are indeed seeking protection and assitance from Sikhs. That is what is meant by 12 O' Clock, when addressing a Sikh. Please read the history and learn how this became popular.
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Papa ho you pandat; dono darpok hai……1857 mein sardaron ne angrezon kaa saath diya thaa; gaddar hain. 1920 mein Golden temple mein Gen Dyer ( Jallian wallah bagh murderer) ko saropa diya…..US mein goron ke saame sab bhool jaate hein….
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Sunny Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:28 am
Ya man…..you continue to talk like this. Its people like you that talk like this give our country and our people a bad rep. Read and get your facts straight first and then blame a certain group of people. Read some history books and see how Sikhs fought for India in the past and still continue to do it.
The things you mentioned above are polotics – and poloticians are bad all over not only in one religion. People like you can only pull others down. Grow up.
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aaa Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 4:24 am
What about hindu dogra in 1849. Dr Karan singh is the keir of these hindu dogra
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Gaganjeet Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:01 am
Angrezo ka saath tab diya jab- when Punjab was the only empre not under british control and to seize it Britishers took help of the rajputs, marathas, etc. GADDARI was done by these people and ofcourse your ancestors. 1857 was just to remind the others of what they have created. The sikhs even told dont help the brits, we will kick them out of the continent. but GADDARS…… gave out all the secrets
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Hi all,
Let the discussions be calm and to the point, without personal attacks. The idea is to get to the root cause and avoid in future, what is damaging to the Nation and its people.
The facts are that, Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale was brought in by Congress leaders to diminish Akali Party influence and to enable Congress to take control of SGPC. It backfired.
Congress dominated Central Govt. wanted to divert River Water from Punjab to Haryana and Rajisthan to reduce dependence on Sikh dominated region for grain. They wanted to create conditions in Punjab to implement President's Rule and then construct canals, which Punjabis were not allowing. This too was stopped and now even Punjab is short of water. so another policy debacle by Central Govt with anti Akali Party approach.
Since Sikhs objected to the draft constitution in 1952, as it did not provide suitable protection to them as an idependent religious group. Thus they did not sign it and later were even denied Punjabi speaking state for a long time, Congress and Central Govt. beauracrats' policy to keep Sikhs depressed, was major factor in policy to destroy Akali Party which has Sikh support.
Central Govt,, having done grave injustice to Sikh dominated Punjabis, were always apprehensive and did not trust Sikhs in Punjab, which is a sad situation. They were afraid of Sikhs joining hands with Pakistan.The attack Sri Darbar Sahib by Operation Blue Star was undertaken on the day Indian Armed forces were facing attack from Pakistan in one startegic area.
There is also a belief of some quarters that, South Indian lobby, then dominating the Central Govt., wanted to eliminate influence of Late Mrs. Gandhi and misguided her to attack Darbar Sahib, as they knew that, after such an attack Mrs. Gandhi will be in deep trouble. Even some Army seniou staff advised against such an attack. Darbar Sahib complex has no gates and it was completely open to pilgrims and public untill the attack was launched by Army and only thent the access was controlled. Thus Army and Police intelligence knew exactly the strength and capability of Sikhs defending the attack. This was launced on a Gurpurub, when the place was full of pilgrims and overcrowded.
Pakistan has a long term plan to take revenge from India for loosing East Pakistan to Bangladesh, created with Indian support. Pakistan hopes to separate Punjab and Kashmir areas and there is much evidence of Pakistan involvement in terrorist activity in Punjab those days and even now.
Sikhs are not a special clan or breed. They are simple persons if Indian origin, from different ethinic backgrounds. First five persons, who volunteered to give their heads and were baptised by Guru Gobind Singh jee, were all from different areas of India and were of different casts. The goodness and bravery, by which they have defended India, fought for the freedom with highest number of persons hanged by British, is all due to their following the teachings of Guru Nanak jee, which only propogates belief in One Supreme Being, equality of all humans being considered children of same One. They are taught to earn with honest hard labour, live a family life, share with others in need and perform Seva to other humans.
I suggest all Indians to understand Sikhs and teachings of Guru Nanak and then the anti Sikh sentiments will vanish and all the troubles too disappear. Let us all common persons stop politicians and beauracrats exploiting people, to keep their control and retain their hold on common people of India.
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I have yet to meet a Sikh outside India who is saying “BHARAT MATA KEE JAI”. I have been in United States for decades. Sikh popluation in India is less that 2% by last census. But outside India, They are either in equal in numbers with Hindus or even more. Morevever, they have roots far deeper than Hindus. Local politicians in USA, Canada, UK fully understand that. For one Hindu temple in a city , there are four Gurudawars. If Sikhs ever mention anything of India, then it is Punjab and just Punjab. You will hardly hear a word India in Punjabi Songs even which are so spread all over the world and India. Disloyality of SIKHs hurts India politically at least in foreign lands. No longer, they are offering themselves to Indian Armed Forces. All they are concerned right now is get out of India. They are not only ” Alienated” but disloyal. Period
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Mohan Singh Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 5:16 am
Kamal jee,
Please go to any country of the World and see. Only Sikhs with turban are identified as Indians. Others are treated as another one of South Asian, Middle Eastern or even South Americans.
Sikhs have been and are being forced out of the coutry by modern India and that is a pity.
Even %ge of Sikhs who can join armed forces has been redueced from about 20% to only 2%, being proportional to their population in India. But, in all major recent offensives and wars, Sikhs regiments were sent to the fore front – be it China war, Kashmir war or the contingent sent to North Sri Lanka. It is a Sikh general, who implemented a winning war strategy in East Pakistan and won it. It was the Sikh Brigidaire, who was killed defending Akal Takhat, who actually was responsible for victory of India in East Pakistan, as he was heading the operation to create, train and use Mukti Bahini from within Bangladesh, which has great contribution to this victory. Please check the number of Sikhs who were hanged by British in Freedom struggle. Even when late Mrs. Gandhi enforced Emergency in India, it was Sikhs of Punjab who opposed it openly and sent protest Jathas for vountary arrest and filled jails in Punjab. Perhaps, they paid a heavy price by decision of Late P.M., who was most unhappy at Sikhs open revolt to her emergency implementation.
Sikhs have been and will continue to be defenders of India, as Sikhs are all from within India and not decendents of any foreign religion or race. First five Sikhs to be baptised volunteered to offer their head and were mostly from lower cost from Manu's four classes. Thus Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh jee created a religion to break the domination of high class of India, who exploited all others. Sikhs were the ones, who resisted and fought back with the invaders from Iran and Afgahistan. Guru Nanak stared his movement when Babar established rule and Guru Gobind Singh jee was fighting and resisting the last Mogul empror. Please read the history of India. On the other hand Hindu Rajas of North, Rajputs and others were appeasing the Moguls, giving their daughters in marriage to them to seek protection.
Sikhs will remain Indians and will defend India, even if they are victimised by their own country people
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Most Sikh terrorists and wanted criminals are hiding @ Missisauga, Brampton, Toronto areas of Canada and Queens/Flushing areas of NY. If we dust the police records in Punjab and enforce extradition we can trap many pigs. Hope Indian Govt has balls to do that. If we choke Canada we can hear good squealing…
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Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 8:43 am
ya one of them is me come get me if u brave enough i burn u n ur family and all of ur cousins and there family and ur all of u alive
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One person is not liable for whole religion . Bindrawala believes in something which others in power opposed. There was solution for every problem. But using guns and tanks against the only religion which saved the lives of coward hindus who lick brahmin nuts . Sikh should be given respect for giving life. All this incidents happen because Brahmins hate Sikhism as hindu will stop coming to temples and give respect to brahmins who are real ********. Brahmin shit is behind this . British left brahmins in big posts as they are real pet dogs. Sikhism is better religion than hindu shit religion .
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Jatt sikhs are not maker or controller of Sikh religion. Any one in the world can join Sikhism and leave his life according to Sikh principles. If some jatts think that Sikh is their religion then have to study the history and religion. Sikh is better religion than Hindu which is controlled by Brahmins and Islam which is controlled by Arabs. Sikh religion is controlled by no one. Not even by Sikh prophet. Guru Gobind himself took Amrit and said that he has became part of KHALSA and was himself follower and Guru. Intelligent people will understand what is said. Indian governemt has done nothing till now . wHY? Indian governemt policies are made by brahmins. got it. Check history. British left Brahmins in big posts before leaving India. Nehru and Indira are brahmins.
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Why you guys are pondering over something not good for anybody like difference on religious basis and not forgive or forget. You are all born in this century and your contribution is very essential for your own country (India). You should have a new thinking of giving maximum for the progress of the country and the nation. Youth in India are now very busy with cricket, bollywood, pub culture, reality shows and accelerating personal career. They should join healthy politics and replace all corrupt and devils from Indian society and government. Remember one thing, every evil yields evil, and every good result in good and good only. I personally condemn all kinds of violence anywhere in the globe. If we do not improve now, coming generation will not forgive us.
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####
“i was there” Mr Vohra has only presented list of very tragic and traumatic historical events but nothing on alienation. What a waste of time?
Sikh is a state-of-mind which every Indian has. This state-of-mind is combination of being 'brave','fair','just','honest','righteous' & 'stand up for the rights of others'.
Everybody has knows about this state-of-mind in some form or other.
So, Sikhs can never be alienated from India. They are integral part of India and will sacrifice their life to protect the soverignity of the nation.
They dont have to prove it again and again.
Where ever they went they have made great contribution for the welfare of every communities because the philosophy of Sikh religion is based on following pillars which can be summed up as:
1) Believe in Supereme Being
2) Be fare and fight till death for the righteousness
3) Stand up for the right of weak
4) Equality
5) Have high moral character
6) Unique appearance/identity to fight for others
If God has to come down to earth to fight for the right of common man then he will come in the form & identity of a Sikh.
Most harmful religion to get rid-off…. I think you will agree:
———————————————————————————–
'Modern Indian Politician' is the most harmful religion of all the religions in India. The qualification/skill-sets needed for this religion is to be a common pick-pocket, street chaap gunda, rapist, murderer, drug smuggler, corrupt govt servant, liars, back-stabers, oppertunist…blah blah blah…. There are great reward for those people who have multi skilled in above skill sets. They will only come to you for your votes before election and once they are elected surround themselves with Z-level security because they fear for their life FROM YOU
We need 100 Bhagat Singhs, Sukhbirs, Rajgurus, Udham Singhs, Lala Lajpat Rais, Boses, Mangal Pandey, Tatia Topeys to free India from these 'Modern Politicians'.
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Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 8:40 am
u ******* idiot
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Prabhjot Singh Nalwa Reply:
June 5th, 2010 at 8:41 am
i am invercargill nz come meet me
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Dear Mr. Vohra, are you not putting the cart before the horse? Otherwise, how can we forget that Sikhs had already been alienated when Khalistan movement started? None from the community spoke up against what was happening. The killings of Hindus went on and none spoke up. Leaders spouted venom but none protested. The government was clueless on how to tackle the problem, just as it is today with the Maoists. Because the Sikhs were alienated, the Golden Temple could be taken over by the terrorists. Because the Sikhs were alienated Hindus feared to go to the much venerated Golden Temple. Because the Sikhs were alienated, Hindus sported beards while travelling in the interiors of the state. Just imagine that such a division could happen between communities that are interwoven. If Pakistan fomented it, hats off to them for successfully driving a wedge between Hindus and Sikhs, a division that could never be foreseen. It is sad that brother fought brother.
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Hi…its grt article, iam also follwing it frm last decade…..smthing want to clear more if send me ur blog addresses….thnx pankaj….grt wrk…keep posted…
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Some figures to consider for sacrifices made during India's independence:
Sacrifice Category Sikhs Non-Sikhs
Hanged 93 28
Life Imprisonment (called Kala Pani) 2147 499
Killed at Jallianwala Bagh Massacre 799 501
Killed at Budge Budge Ghat Firing, Kolkata 67 46
Killed in Naamdhari Kooka Movement, 1800's 91 -
Killed in Akali Movement, December 30, 1920 500 -
Grand Total 3697 1074
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Also, Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji sacrificed his life for saving the religion of Hindu Kasmiri Pandits!
Show me one example in the entire history, O' ungrateful people, where someone has sacrificed his life for upholding ANOTHER religion.
Also, those who are well-versed with history, would vouch for the fact that, but for brave Sikhs like Hari Singh Nalwa, Akali Phoola Singh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, etc, the so-called 'Hindu'stan would have become like Afghanistan where Hindus would have been majority, and most of us would have been Muslims!
Those who do not appreciate the great sacrifices made by the Sikh Gurus or brave Sikh heroes are either not well aware of the history, or are just ungrateful! I didn't intend to use harsh lang., but sometimes one becomes very sad as well as frustrated when their fellow countrymen either because of lack of knowledge or maturity, forget to gave a community its due. But we Indians actually went one step ahead, and instead of appreciating the Sikh community, descreated their most sacred place! No excuse makes it justified!
I'm not posting this to initiate any new hatred discussion; let's try and live like fellow brothers and respect each other's religion. Let's not allow politics to poison one's mind towards each other.
Thanks!
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We talk about Sikh militancy, but how many of us have faced it or seen it first-hand. Do you know about the countless fake counters that happened during the militancy insurgency in Punjab after '84? How many your sikhs were rounded up from their home…just because they belonged to a community? How many unmarked graves were dug with countless bodies? And this by the goverment whose Constitution believes in sparing 10 guilty people if there is a risk of punishing 1 innocent!
There have been numerous instances where the perpetratorsof '84 riots (Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler etc) have been found guilty. Whenver his happens, Govt. dissolves that committee and makes a new one! This has been going on since last 26 years!
Where is the sense of justice? Ask the family of the riot victims! And this happened in one's own country, and the same country for which your community made so many sacrifices! This is sad!
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A victim of Sikh Miltancy Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Sat Sri Akal,
You talk about Sikh Miltancy, My sister and her 2 kids had to run away from Punjab to escape those threats, which they gave to their own Sikh brethren. Those Sikh militants, killed their own blood and were basically mercenaries who extorted money out of us.
Extremists like Bhindranwala, Babbar Khalsa..don't have any deen and Iman..they are basically mercenaries who work for money and power.
And if again they try to bring back militancy in Punjab, they are going to face the ire of all the Sikhs in India.
unjab ( And interestingly the Sikhs in Punjab have the highest rate in this aspect too)
Its a shame that Punjab has Gurdwaras for upper class and lower class Sikhs seperately..Sikhism is a religion founded on the tenets of equality….There needs to be a religious revolution which brings back the teachings of our Gurus to Punjab.
State among the lowest literacy rates: Punjab
State with highest female foeticide
State with highest alcohol consumption:Punjab ..( Let those Akalis ban Alcohol in Punjab, they won't coz..their wallets depend on that and so does the state's exchequer)
State with highest per capita income:Punjab(after Maharashtra offcourse)
State whose loans are waived off almost every year thanks to their pitiful state of affairs: Punjab
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Only because of those who became sikh-warriors u are patting ur back. Dont boost urself too much. The world know jats were brave. Nothing to boast about.
If you take out jatts from sikhism the rest of u cant even kill a dog.
All these terrorism and other things are dont by non-jat sikhs. They cant do anything just cry. They need to be kicked hard at their butt
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A warrior Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:32 am
Also some of these other baniyas and pandits need to be kicked hard they have spoiled both hindus and sikhs
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A warrior Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:33 am
Correction.
Only because of those who became sikh-warriors u are patting ur back should be read as Only because of those Jats who became sikh-warriors u are patting ur back
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Eye-witness account of 2 survivors of Operation Bluestar:
(Bhan Singh)
“I saw about 35 or 36 Sikhs lined up with their hands raised above their heads. And the major was about to order them to be shot. When I asked him for medical help, he got into a rage, tore my turban off my head, and ordered his men to shoot me. I turned back and fled, jumping over the bodies of the dead and injured, and saving my life crawling along the walls. I got to the room where Tohra and Sant Longowal were sitting and told them what I had seen. Sardar Karnail Singh Nag, who had followed me, also narrated what he had seen, as well as the killing of 35 to 36 young Sikhs by cannon fire. All of these young men were villagers
(Giani Chet Singh)
“The people were taken out of their houses. Men’s hands were tied with their turbans. Women’s necks were sought to be asphyxiated with their plaits. Then they were shot in the chests. No quarter was shown to women, aged or children; in the eyes of the troops every Sikh was a terrorist. Those who survived died of thirst. Their houses were ransacked, and then put on fire. The area surrounding Darbar Sahib (Golden Temple) was full of debris. What happened is beyond description of sight, hearing or words.”
For more details, pls visit: http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,4518
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Vohraji,
your article is half the story – the end part.This story starts much before that – the one which you omitted – wilfully or innocently.
The question is how was Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale created ?? What was the role of Indra-gandhi,Sanjay Gandhi and other Congress elements who allowed this person to gain so much influence and power ?? Please write a blog and complete the story – now that you have started it.We want to understand the politics which was being played in Punjab – which was the real power behind the creation of Bhindranwale
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a very interesting blog thank you for sharing,militancy in the punjab wouldnt have started had the then goverment taken the right action and not sent in the army to demolish the golden temple in which some innocent bystanders were also killed,the anti sikh riots in dehli 1984 were innocent sikh familiys were murdered,again the leaders be they hindu or sikh should have been brought to justice and if guilty hanged,the sikhs had a injustice every race should be treated the same jinda and sukha were hanged in 1989,the same should have been done to guilty hindus also,after that if any religen is involved in terrorism or preaching hatred they should be put down with a iron fist,operation black thunder was a feather in the cap for the security forces in punjab and for mr kps gill dgp punjab the nsg/crpf/and punjab police, you mentioned malkiat singh ajnala who was a top militant leader of the kcf, as were karaj singh thande and surjit singh penta lt gens in the btfk,please put up some pictures of the operation if you have them,
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we r very proud of our history and tradition ,its been one sided story and we will never forget what you Hindu rule have done to us . I read your blog and you have concluded by showing how Hindu won the war on the Sikh i guess your history is very week and you have paid for your degrees to get a job . Its shame how you Hindu people stab us and showing how proud r u , In todays world living in 21 st century we the most prosperous people settle all over the world from Indian continent.
I would like to teach you history lesson from 1947 when British left India , Its was three nation theory , Hindustan , Pakistan n Sikh nation but Nehru played n lied ,dirty game with us Sikhs half of our nation given to Pakistan , not to forget our Sikh capital was Lahore . Hyderabad was part of Pakistan nation which we Punjab had to paid the price and after himachal n haryana was part of Punjab was separated , now where is the justice you may chief editor but your knowledge is very week and its showed how shame full you are by telling that Hindu won the war on sikhs .
You need to find the term what journalism means , typical Indian you are look around you how you run your country very poor , very dirty not to forget very very corrupted nation ,lets not changed the subject , I live abroad and my recent visit to India was very disappointed by getting harassed at airport just for being sikh . by all the police and airport staff.
How can you be so hypocrite .In india democracy is being used just as internet tool .its legalize racism .even today india is not one .just read our history before you feel proud indian you cant even fight a war on own china will take your hindu nation soon.
just go back to school and learn what journalism means.
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thank you for posting the blog ,operation black thunder is a part of punjabs folklore,its a shame that the goverment didnt handle the blue star operation the same way instead of bodgeing it up and costing many innocent lives and giving the extremists the foundation to start militancy in the punjab,the sikhs were hanged but guilty hindus got of scott free it should be the same law for all cultures living in india,if the sikhs were treated farely during those days the problems could have been avoided,and if after that sikhs or hindus or any other community who trys to cause trouble through extremism should be put down with a iron fist,
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Can we ever stop fighting over religions ever, this is unfortunate to read the hatred in comments here, lets not forget the basic, we all are human first, and all wants to live peacefully, politics and hunger for power creates all the mess in this world, please dont let yourself to get manipulated.All the unnatural deaths are to be condemn but just for a minute try to think out of religion, all these things will looks stupid, human kills human thats all.
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Thanks, for nice words in the end.
Jarnail Singh, Journalist
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As a Hindu i say …………………SINGH IS KING ……………hindus ……..its the congress which created these political wedge between us HINDUS And our FIRST SONS SIKHS ……………….i love sikhs ………………….and next time when the congress tries this ……………….i will be happy to kill that ******* ……………..oye congressi khush ho gaya kutte
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“The army went into Darbar Sahib not to eliminate a political figure or a political movement but to suppress the culture of a people, to attack their hearts, and to strike a blow at their spirit and self-confidence.”–Joyce Pettigrew
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prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
I don't know your story, maybe you were a victim in 1984, but honestly, if the government had wanted to suppress the culture of Sikhs and strike terror in them, why would only one Gurudwara be attcaked? What would prevent them from attcaking all Gurudwaras or all Sikhs?
I am from a mixed Hindu and Sikh family, and have lost some family members in the 1984 riots, but I don't understand why some people have still so much hatred?
The children of the people killed have moved on, they are well settled. They are proud Indians and they hate terrorists and Khalistanis as much as the rioters who killed their father.
If you are one of the opportunists who wants Canadian citizenship because you were a victim in 1984, please don't preach hatred among others.
Who is Joyce Pettigrew to come between Hindus and Sikhs who have lived together for centuries?
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prashant saxena Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Who is Joyce Pettigrew anyway ??
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Anonymous Reply:
June 4th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
For your information on the day golden temple was attacked by the Indian Army so were 40 other gurdwaras. Could u answer why was the Reference Library in golden temple burned by the Indian army?
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I think while the article is very good, but the title is inappropriate. I don't think Sikhs are alienated at all. I am a hindu married to a sikh, and I sense a degree of dissapointment and angst at the events of 1984 from my in laws, but never a sense of alientaion.
They are hurt and angered that they were attacked and victimised in their own country and city, their shops were looted and their thriving business collapsed, a blow that the family has still not recovered from.
But they still think of themselves as proud and very much mainstream Indians. They make fun of Khalistanis and hate terrorists. The children whose father was killed have recovered well and after several years of very hard work, they are doing well now. There is bitterness at what might have been if their father had not been killed, but they still think of themselves as patriotic Indians. They are not alienated.
I am proud of our Sikh community for recovering from such a terrible tragedy.
At the same time, we cannot forget the terrible crimes of the Khalistanis, and the animosity created between our two communities by our neighbour. There are still many opportunists who got US and Canadian citizenship based on claims of harrassment, who sometimes raise a cry for Khalistan in the US and Canada.
It is ludicrous that while Sikhs are happy and progressing towards prosperity in India, these jokers are asking for Khalistan in Canada.
I pray for peace and happiness in India, which can only be possible if we educate our youth about the designs of our neighbour and dont let them get carried away by seccesionist movements.
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Responsible journalism is about collecting the facts of a story and reporting with sufficient background so that the audience can read/watch without prejudice. However, in some countries in this world the 'free press' routinely reports prejudice as facts. This grossly distorts communication of news, denies people the right to information, and in some cases uncovers the pretense of democracy.
How can an article that does not even try to make an attempt to address the claim of alienation given in its title be taken seriously. Why choose to completely ignore the fact that alienation of Sikhs (and many others) had started before the partition of the subcontinent 62 years ago – this did not start in 1984 and nor did it end in 1984!
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Hmmm, your article seems to be forgetting some key details. I'm not very educated about the topic, but you have to remember that the Indian government attacked the Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple) complex on a religious holiday–when there would be excess numbers of pilgrims. Why?
Also, do you really think that Sikhs are part of the 'mainstream' and that all is well in Punjab? Why are the perpetrators of gross human rights violations during the 1984 Anti-Sikh pogroms still free, and not being held accountable for their actions? And, I don't know a lot, but there are a lot of problems in Punjab–water rights, drugs, etc.
Overall, I think that your article seems a bit biased, but I do wish that I was more educated about the situation so that I could correct you.
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Forget everything. India should open their eyes and get their heads out of their arses. Let sikhs start fresh, let them start off with khalistan free from the corruption of the modern india. Khalistan will be run by khalsa law, khalsa principle an freedom to sikhs. But no the indian goverment is to naive, to power obsessed to do so. All they want to do is control us all. An as for any1 here who has mocked SANT JI JSB then go you should really go read some intresting facts before u judge him as a teorrist. Go read a book! a proper book morons! India's goverment has corrupted the media with lies an filled your heads with ****!! Even singhs are turning their back on us! Indra ghandi tried to destroy us and by gods will she was destroyed. Maybee india will come back to finish us off. Finish off the great sikh nation who has served india so well. Only this time we will be ready. All my sikh brothers and sisters will know that the time is going to come. We must look to our present an future sikhs to make a difference. To stand out an say we will not take any **** from anyone who oppresses our religion. Only when every sikh, man women an child can stand up an fight for the mighty khalsa will we have khalsa raj. Then we will see…. BOLE SO NIHAL SAT SIRI AKAL
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And Rohit Lal… maybee no 1 did mention that attack. But for good reason. The people who carried out thoes attack were not sikhs! They were terroists! However your likely to argue so were the many indians who attacked harmeless sikhs in 1984 to this very day. Well lets put it like this… They were the 1st terrorists and the canda plane attack attackers followed by taking revenge. Any attacks from extreamist “sikh” groups have been provoked. The fact is.. there have been many many more attacks on sikhs frm indian extreamist groups than the other way around. The funny thing is.. we fight for our religion. we fight for our beliefs. yet we are called terrorists. why? Do not be quick to judge the actions of some and then judge us all the same. U make it seem as if india is the victim of a brutal attack from sikhs when it is very much the other way around!!
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